From eternalsquire at comcast.net  Wed Nov  3 22:59:43 2004
From: eternalsquire at comcast.net (The Eternal Squire)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 20:59:43 -0700
Subject: pep 336:  Make None Callable
Message-ID: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>

PEP: 336
Title: Make None Callable
Version: $Revision: 1.1 $
Last-Modified: $Date: 2004/11/03 16:58:30 $
Author: Andrew McClelland
Status: Draft
Type: Standards Track
Content-Type: text/plain
Created: 28-Oct-2004
Post-History:


Abstract

     None should be a callable object that when called with any
     arguments has no side effect and returns None.


Motivation

     To allow a programming style for selectable actions that is more
     in accordance with the minimalistic functional programming goals
     of the Python language.


Rationale

     Allow the use of None in method tables as a universal no effect
     rather than either (1) checking a method table entry against None
     before calling, or (2) writing a local no effect method with
     arguments similar to other functions in the table.

     The semantics would be effectively,

         class None:

             def __call__(self, *args):
                 pass


How To Use

     Before, checking function table entry against None:

         class Select:

             def a(self, input):
                 print 'a'

             def b(self, input):
                 print 'b'

             def c(self, input);
                 print 'c'

             def __call__(self, input):
                 function = { 1 : self.a,
                          2 : self.b,
                          3 : self.c
                        }.get(input, None)
                 if function:  return function(input)

     Before, using a local no effect method:

         class Select:

             def a(self, input):
                 print 'a'

             def b(self, input):
                 print 'b'

             def c(self, input);
                 print 'c'

             def nop(self, input):
                 pass

             def __call__(self, input):
                 return { 1 : self.a,
                      2 : self.b,
                      3 : self.c
                        }.get(input, self.nop)(input)

     After:

         class Select:

             def a(self, input):
                 print 'a'

             def b(self, input):
                 print 'b'

             def c(self, input);
                 print 'c'

             def __call__(self, input):
                 return { 1 : self.a,
                      2 : self.b,
                      3 : self.c
                        }.get(input, None)(input)


References

     [1] Python Reference Manual, Section 3.2,
         http://docs.python.org/ref/ref.html


Copyright

     This document has been placed in the public domain.



Local Variables:
mode: indented-text
indent-tabs-mode: nil
sentence-end-double-space: t
fill-column: 70
End:


From ods at strana.ru  Fri Nov 19 05:10:42 2004
From: ods at strana.ru (Denis S. Otkidach)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:10:42 +0300
Subject: Importing files other than *.py
In-Reply-To: <40050B97-39BE-11D9-B38F-003065B11E84@leafe.com>
References: <40050B97-39BE-11D9-B38F-003065B11E84@leafe.com>
Message-ID: <20041119131042.4d0507c5.ods@strana.ru>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 19:02:06 -0500
Ed Leafe <ed at leafe.com> wrote:

> 	If I have a Python script in a file named "burp.zz", is there
> 	any way 
> to import it into another script as you can with files named with the 
> .py extension?
> 
> 	I looked at the imp module, but was not able to make it do what
> 	I 
> wanted. Is this possible, or is the py/pyc extension required?

Yes, it's possible:

$ cat > burp.zz <<EOF
> def f():
>     print 'OK'
> EOF
$ python
Python 2.4b1 (#1, Oct 29 2004, 15:00:34) 
[GCC 3.3.3 20040412 (ALT Linux, build 3.3.3-alt5)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> fp = open('burp.zz', 'U')
>>> import imp
>>> module = imp.load_module('burp', fp, 'burp.zz', ('.py', 'U', 1))
>>> module
<module 'burp' from 'burp.zz'>
>>> module.f
<function f at 0x307a04>
>>> module.f()
OK

Alternatively you can use sys.path_hooks to install own importer being
aware of your extentions.

-- 
Denis S. Otkidach
http://www.python.ru/      [ru]


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Sat Nov 13 17:22:30 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 00:22:30 +0200
Subject: Comparing two minidom objects
References: <727daa7e.0411081033.276d5eba@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <e21dp05cr3okn8ju545ja3e69771su8bpb@4ax.com>

On 8 Nov 2004 10:33:24 -0800, rumours say that skip at pobox.com (Skip
Montanaro) might have written:

>I'd like to compare two xml.dom.minidom objects, but the naive attempt fails:
>
>>>> import xml.dom.minidom
>>>> d1 = xml.dom.minidom.parse("ES.xml")
>>>> d2 = xml.dom.minidom.parse("ES.xml")
>>>> d1 == d2
>False
>
>My goal is to decide whether or not I need to prompt the user to save config
>information at the end of a program run by generating a minidom object then
>comparing it with the last saved version.

Convert your minidom objects into sets of ("key", "value") tuples, where
"key" represents the full path to the key starting from the root
element.  I assume that both "key" and "value" will or can be hashable.
Compare the two sets.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
"Tssss!" --Brad Pitt as Achilles in unprecedented Ancient Greek


From robin at reportlab.com  Thu Nov 18 10:03:46 2004
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:03:46 +0000
Subject: PIL for Python 2.4?
In-Reply-To: <b0cpp0tveaidq3lbnsvnji5apnloi4u2g8@4ax.com>
References: <6r6pp018glonqu2kqeau5ru9nhfj9fpchv@4ax.com>
	<mailman.6543.1100784027.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<b0cpp0tveaidq3lbnsvnji5apnloi4u2g8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <419CB9D2.2030504@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:17:50 +0100, rumours say that Gerhard Haering
> <gh at ghaering.de> might have written:
> 
> 
>>>Has anyone built PIL (1.1.4 or 1.1.5) for Python 2.4?  If yes,
>>>please let me know, [...]
>>
>>I haven't. But it would have been useful if you had mentioned which
>>platform ;-) Windows?
> 
> 
> Oh, yes, Windows... On Linux I built it myself.  I just don't have
> access to a MS compiler on Windows.
> 
> Sorry for not being clear.
well I have old MS VC++ 6 and building with setup.py Python 2.4b2 gives an error 
related to the compiler; :( I guess I need MSVC++ 7.

I have MSDN subscription, but no idea whether I can get 6 & 7 to coexist.

#####
running build_ext
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "setup.py", line 314, in ?
     ext_modules = MODULES,
   File "C:\python24\lib\distutils\core.py", line 149, in setup
     dist.run_commands()
   File "C:\python24\lib\distutils\dist.py", line 946, in run_commands
     self.run_command(cmd)
   File "C:\python24\lib\distutils\dist.py", line 966, in run_command
     cmd_obj.run()
   File "C:\python24\lib\distutils\command\install.py", line 501, in run
     self.run_command('build')
   File "C:\python24\lib\distutils\cmd.py", line 333, in run_command
     self.distribution.run_command(command)
   File "C:\python24\lib\distutils\dist.py", line 966, in run_command
     cmd_obj.run()
   File "C:\python24\lib\distutils\command\build.py", line 112, in run
     self.run_command(cmd_name)
   File "C:\python24\lib\distutils\cmd.py", line 333, in run_command
     self.distribution.run_command(command)
   File "C:\python24\lib\distutils\dist.py", line 966, in run_command
     cmd_obj.run()
   File "C:\python24\lib\distutils\command\build_ext.py", line 253, in run
     force=self.force)
   File "C:\python24\lib\distutils\ccompiler.py", line 1177, in new_compiler
     return klass (None, dry_run, force)
   File "C:\python24\lib\distutils\msvccompiler.py", line 206, in __init__
     self.__macros = MacroExpander(self.__version)
   File "C:\python24\lib\distutils\msvccompiler.py", line 112, in __init__
     self.load_macros(version)
   File "C:\python24\lib\distutils\msvccompiler.py", line 128, in load_macros
     self.set_macro("FrameworkSDKDir", net, "sdkinstallrootv1.1")
   File "C:\python24\lib\distutils\msvccompiler.py", line 118, in set_macro
     self.macros["$(%s)" % macro] = d[key]
KeyError: 'sdkinstallrootv1.1'

-- 
Robin Becker


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Mon Nov 15 08:15:35 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 14:15:35 +0100
Subject: Combining arbitrary lists
References: <41982269$1_1@alt.athenanews.com>
Message-ID: <riqrdm6nrkjc.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Nick (2004-11-15 04:28 +0100)
> Given that
> 
> n = [ [1, 2, 3], [4, 5, 6], [7, 8] ]
> 
> then the following code produces what I expect
> 
> for x in n[0]:
>    for y in n[1]:
>      for z in n[2]:
>        print [x, y, z]
> 
> --output--
> [1, 4, 7]
> [1, 4, 8]
> [1, 5, 7]
> [1, 5, 8]
>   ...
> [3, 6, 8]
> --      --
> 
> How can I do this for an arbirary length of n?

This is the Cartesian product of three sets. Have a look at
http://www.thorstenkampe.de/python/utils.py:

def cartes(seq0, seq1, modus = 'pair'):
    """ return the Cartesian Product of two sequences """
    if   modus == 'pair':
        return [[item0, item1] for item0 in seq0 for item1 in seq1]
    elif modus == 'triple':
        return [item0 + [item1] for item0 in seq0 for item1 in seq1]

Then you would generate your output like this:
>>> cartes(cartes([1, 2, 3], [4, 5, 6]), [7, 8], 'triple')


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  7 09:14:28 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 15:14:28 +0100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<mailman.5999.1099743679.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418D61D3.3040904@acm.org>
	<mailman.6032.1099794432.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.6034.1099800993.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gmvz4l.vo1rpk9zfdahN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Maurice LING <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote:

> > Not really. It's an impression you could easily get from several
> > books about Python (e.g. O'Reilly's "Learning Python"), which
> > make a rather big deal about Python being slow to execute, but
> > fast to develop in.
> 
> Come to think of it, yes, "Python, The Complete Reference", "Programming
> Python" and "Learning Python" all seems to have that "speed warning" tag
> in the beginning chapters.
> 
> If this seems to be the wrong impression, should the authors do something?

I guess they should, if they care about what they're communicating.
This is how I put the issue in "Python in a Nutshell":

'''
Good compilers for classic compiled languages can often generate binary
machine code that runs much faster than Python code. However, in most
cases, the performance of Python-coded applications proves sufficient.
When it doesn't, you can apply the optimization techniques covered in
Chapter 17 to enhance your program's performance while keeping the
benefits of high programming productivity.
'''

I'm biased, having written this, but it seems a balanced set of
assertions which tries hard not to leave either wrong impression.


Alex


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov  8 18:50:02 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 00:50:02 +0100
Subject: Determining combination of bits
References: <x3Qjd.121786$hj.41260@fed1read07>
	<mailman.6124.1099945664.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8KQjd.121796$hj.4674@fed1read07> <418ff674$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<p7Sjd.5365$F6.1280593@news.siol.net>
	<cmoqvv$68r$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<418fff99$0$87155$a1866201@visi.com>
Message-ID: <cmp0n3$e58$00$1@news.t-online.com>

> 
> The least significant bit of 110 is this one here -----+
>                                ^                       |
>                                |                       |
>                                +-----------------------+
> 
> It's a 0 (zero).
> 
> What I think you're trying to say is something like the value
> of the rightmost 1.

Yup.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From sylvain.thenault at nospam.logilab.fr  Tue Nov 30 07:57:59 2004
From: sylvain.thenault at nospam.logilab.fr (Sylvain Thenault)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:57:59 +0100
Subject: weird behaviour of "0 in [] is False"
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.30.12.57.59.582543@nospam.logilab.fr>

Hi there !

Can someone explain me the following behaviour ?

>>> l = []
>>> 0 in (l is False)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: iterable argument required
>>> (0 in l) is False
True
>>> 0 in l is False
False


This is really obscur to me...

-- 
Sylvain Th?nault                               LOGILAB, Paris (France).

http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org




From tim.peters at gmail.com  Mon Nov 15 10:56:15 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 10:56:15 -0500
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
In-Reply-To: <slrncpgm80.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<4195419b.303035081@news.oz.net>
	<slrncpgm80.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <1f7befae0411150756122153c5@mail.gmail.com>

[Antoon Pardon]
> ...
> AFAIU the Queue module doesn't block on a full/empty queue when
> a timeout is specified but goes in a loop sleeping and periodically
> checking whether place/items are available. With signals that
> can be sent to a thread the queue could just set an alarm and
> then block as if no timeout value was set and either unblock
> when place/items are available or get signalled when the timeout
> period is over.

The only things CPython requires of the *platform* thread implementation are:

1. A way to start a new thread, and obtain a unique C long "identifier"
   for it.

2. Enough gimmicks to build a lock object with Python's core
   threading.Lock semantics (non-rentrant; any thread T can release
   a lock in the acquired state, regardless of whether T acquired it).

Everything else is built on those, and CPython's thread implementation
is extremely portable-- and easy to port --as a result.

Nothing in CPython requires that platform threads support directing a
signal to a thread, neither that the platform C library support an
alarm() function, nor even that the platform have a SIGALRM signal.

It's possible to build a better Queue implementation that runs only on
POSIX systems, or only on Windows systems, or only on one of a dozen
other less-popular target platforms.  The current implementation works
fine on all of them, although is suboptimal compared to what could be
done in platform-specific Queue implementations.

For that matter, even something as simple as threading.RLock could be
implemented in platform-specific ways that are more efficient than the
current portable implementation (which builds RLock semantics on top
of #2 above).


From dieringe at zedat.fu-berlin.de  Tue Nov 23 11:22:23 2004
From: dieringe at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Martin Dieringer)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:22:23 +0100
Subject: split large file by string/regex
References: <v5l872-sd4.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>
	<41A1EF3E.1080409@holdenweb.com>
	<mailman.6700.1101147794.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<0ds972-sct1.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.6720.1101207839.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vm4c72-jjd.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>

"Denis S. Otkidach" <ods at strana.ru> writes:

> On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 20:48:16 +0100
> Martin Dieringer <dieringe at zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>
>> "Denis S. Otkidach" <ods at strana.ru> writes:
> [...]
>> > re module works fine with mmap-ed file, so no need to read it into
>> > memory.
>> >
>> 
>> thank you, this is the solution! 
>> Now I can mmap.find all locations and then read the chunks them via
>> file.seek and file.read
>
> mmap-ed files also support subscription and slicing.  I guess
> mmfile[start:stop] would more readable.

yes, even better :-)

m.


From mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net  Thu Nov 25 13:49:36 2004
From: mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net (Jean Brouwers)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 18:49:36 GMT
Subject: Replacing words from strings except  'and' / 'or' / 'and not'
References: <mailman.6781.1101393976.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<co4s42$mkb$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <251120041051005144%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>


Just a comment.  The w.strip() call in the last line is superfluous in
this particular case.  The items in the list resulting from the
query.split() call will be stripped already.  Example,

  >>> "a    b      c".split()
  ['a', 'b', 'c']


/Jean Bouwers


In article <co4s42$mkb$04$1 at news.t-online.com>, Diez B. Roggisch
<deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote:

> import sets
> KEYWORDS = sets.Set(['and', 'or', 'not'])
> 
> query = "test and testing and not perl or testit or example"
> 
> def decorate(w):
>     if w in KEYWORDS:
>         return w
>     return "*%s*" % w
> 
> query = " ".join([decorate(w.strip()) for w in query.split()])


From vsafronovich at naumen.ru  Fri Nov  5 03:45:28 2004
From: vsafronovich at naumen.ru (Victor Safronovich)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 00:45:28 -0800
Subject: recursion in __cmp__
Message-ID: <3da35075.0411050045.379477af@posting.google.com>

please comment this
Python 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
>>> class A:
        def __cmp__(self, other):
                print '%s|%s' %(`self`, `other`)
                return cmp(self, other)

>>> a = A()
>>> cmp(a,A())
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
0
>>> cmp(a,5)
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
<__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
0


From bokr at oz.net  Fri Nov 12 20:08:22 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 01:08:22 GMT
Subject: Python 2.4: Why only assignments to None are forbiden?
References: <4195190f@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
	<mailman.6318.1100293719.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41955a49.309353436@news.oz.net>

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:08:30 -0800, James Stroud <jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu> wrote:

>
>Forbidding assignment to arbitrary things seems like a bad idea.
>
>I remember some learning manual recommended this (or the equivalent):
>
Two things wrong in the following, as noted:
>def do_stuff_to_bob(bob=None):
#XXX# >  if not bob:
   if bob is None:  # this is the usual gerneral idiom, so that e.g., one could
                    # distinguish from a caller passing a legitimate empty list []
                    # (though of course you could use if not bob if that's what you meant ;-)
>    bob = ["carol","ted","alice"]
#    ^^^^^ -- this does not assign to None, it rebinds bob,
#             which has no effect on the previously bound object (in this case None)
#             That's a serious misunderstanding of python's assignment semantics, which
#             your momentary lapse should not be allowed to promote to newbies ;-)

>  #do stuff to bob
>  return bob
>
>otherwise bob would already be defined from the last call (because it is a 
>mutable type? I can't remember.). How else to handle this in 2.4?
>
>On Friday 12 November 2004 01:11 pm, Josef Meile wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Textually from the highlights of python 2.4:
>>
>> "Assigning to None - the compiler now treats assigning to None as a
>> SyntaxError."
>>
>> I think in general assignments to built-in types, functions, and
>> variables should be also forbiden.
>
>
>James

 Python 2.4b1 (#56, Nov  3 2004, 01:47:27)
 [GCC 3.2.3 (mingw special 20030504-1)] on win32
 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> None = 'foo'
 SyntaxError: assignment to None
 >>> 1234 = 'foo'
 SyntaxError: can't assign to literal
 >>> bob = None
 >>> bob
 >>> repr(bob)
 'None'
 >>> bob = 1234
 >>> bob
 1234

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jlnespoulous at netscape.net  Sat Nov 20 03:56:19 2004
From: jlnespoulous at netscape.net (Leuk)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:56:19 +0100
Subject: Help for newbie
Message-ID: <419f06a8$0$32335$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

I would like to use ZODB, but I'm a newbie in Python, so I do not know if it 
be more easy for me to use PostgreSQL.
Some one can tell me what database will be better to use? What are de 
differencies between this two databases?
Thanks very much :-) 




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Nov  4 19:39:41 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 19:39:41 -0500
Subject: exec code in "globaldict"
References: <Nizid.55896$z77.3059@news.chello.at>
Message-ID: <cmei43$v10$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Gerald Senarclens de Grancy" <santa at sbox.tugraz.at> wrote in message 
news:Nizid.55896$z77.3059 at news.chello.at...
> Hi!
> I kept searching my online and offline python ressources to figure out 
> how to execute some code in the global dictionary.

Perhaps you are thinking of builtins.  If so, leave it alone.

> Basically I'm reading a options file that defines some variables. I want 
> to access those variables throughout my whole project, so I need them in 
> the global dictionary.

Each module has its own global dict.  For what you want, define a module 
globals.py or options.py or config.py or whatever, have that module read 
the options, and then import that module into all other modules.

Terry J. Reedy





From peter at somewhere.com  Fri Nov 26 04:11:15 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:11:15 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6746.1101289610.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>	<mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org>	<zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>	<pan.2004.11.23.07.09.08.229463@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>	<zn18e7pm.fsf@telus.net>	<pan.2004.11.24.07.36.24.700146@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<mailman.6746.1101289610.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <co6see$cuu$1@swifty.westend.com>

Carlos Ribeiro schrieb:
> I think that Delphi is *so* underated when it comes to language &
> framework design... Delphi suffered from a couple of problems; first,
> it was Pascal's child, and not C; also, because it was a proprietary
> project, owned by a single company.

Like VB :) but this only means that software decisions are largely
driven by prejudice. I'm a long time supporter of Delphi (and
C++Builder), fascinated by the design of the VCL and the IDE and
could never understand why so many developers preferred VB which
is just crap compared to Delphi.


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From news-and-lists at the-me.de  Thu Nov 11 07:02:03 2004
From: news-and-lists at the-me.de (Axel Bock)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:02:03 +0100
Subject: re.compile.match() results in unicode strings - why?
Message-ID: <2vh2mlF2lbkrdU1@uni-berlin.de>

Hi,

I am doing matches with the re module, and I am experiencing a strange 
problem. I match a string with
	exp = re.compile(blah)
	m = exp.match(string)
	a,b,c,d = m.groups()
now a,b,c,d are all string variables, and they all come out as unicode strings 
(u"xxx").

now my question is: is that "normal" behaviour, for there really is NO 
character possibly triggering any unicode thing - at all. I mean, I don't 
really care, for the program works fine, but I _am_ curious a bit :-)


thanks in advance & greetings,

axel.


From ed at leafe.com  Thu Nov 18 19:42:52 2004
From: ed at leafe.com (Ed Leafe)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 19:42:52 -0500
Subject: Importing files other than *.py
In-Reply-To: <864d370904111816217f383d18@mail.gmail.com>
References: <40050B97-39BE-11D9-B38F-003065B11E84@leafe.com>
	<864d370904111816217f383d18@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F2328C81-39C3-11D9-B38F-003065B11E84@leafe.com>

On Nov 18, 2004, at 7:21 PM, Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

> However, there is a problem with 'import' from within the code being
> executed; it will look for modules on the directory where the source
> file is located. Thus, if your code tries to import a library from
> your system, it may not find it (even if it was located in the same
> directory where the code that called it via execfile() was). So,
> *before* you call the code, update the sys.path to include any
> directories from where you may need to import stuff.

	I was hoping to name certain files with certain extensions, even 
though they are all 100% Python code. This would make organizing 
simpler, and avoid having to adopt a naming convention for the main 
file name.

> (btw, I've been checking Dabo from time to time. Good to know you're
> making progress!).

	It's pretty exciting. Those who have worked with it are pretty 
enthusiastic! It's great to know that we're not the only ones looking 
for a tool like this!

      ___/
     /
    __/
   /
  ____/
  Ed Leafe
  http://leafe.com/
  http://dabodev.com/



From jan.dries at dcube-resource.be  Mon Nov 29 12:13:56 2004
From: jan.dries at dcube-resource.be (Jan Dries)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 18:13:56 +0100
Subject: [OT] Re: SysLogHandler is drivin me nuts PEBCAC
In-Reply-To: <f11c8440.0411290154.75eeea88@posting.google.com>
References: <f11c8440.0411250122.c600af1@posting.google.com>	<mailman.6782.1101394046.5135.python-list@python.org>	<f11c8440.0411260207.555d2cc0@posting.google.com>	<mailman.6821.1101494250.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<f11c8440.0411290154.75eeea88@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41AB58D4.2000902@dcube-resource.be>

Slightly OT, but regarding the title, shouldn't it be PEBKAC, since it's 
keyboard and not ceyboard?

Regards,
Jan


michael wrote:

> Vinay Sajip <vinay_sajip at red-dove.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.6821.1101494250.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> 
>>michael wrote:
>>
>>>Yep it was incomplete heres the complete config as it has to be
>>>
>>
>>[config file snipped]
>>
>>The complete file looks OK.
> 
> 
> Thx. with this file it is working. The syslogd configuration under AIX was buggy.
> 
> regards
> 
> Michael


From ville at spammers.com  Fri Nov 19 02:51:50 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 09:51:50 +0200
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.4, release candidate 1
References: <mailman.6581.1100848625.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du76542cm3t.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Anthony" == Anthony Baxter <anthony at interlink.com.au> writes:

    Anthony> On behalf of the Python development team and the Python
    Anthony> community, I'm happy to announce the first release
    Anthony> candidate of Python 2.4.

<insert obligatory thank-you>

There's a slight nag however, I don't even know if it's worth posting
here:

The picture in the MSI installer looks quite weird (clunky /
pixelated, with awkward colours). This happens with win2k/1280x1024x32
at least. 

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From cabria at fta.uva.es  Fri Nov  5 16:11:34 2004
From: cabria at fta.uva.es (Iván Cabria)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 16:11:34 MET
Subject: sh: test: argument expected
Message-ID: <200411051511.iA5FBYnO014379@relay.uva.es>

Hi,   
   
I have run the script using "python scriptname.py" and the error does    
not go away. I got the same error: 
 
sh: test: argument expected 
   
 
I have checked again that the first line of the python script is   
#!/usr/bin/env python   
   
There are no blank lines or empty spaces before    
#!/usr/bin/env python   
   
  
I also did "grep loginname /etc/passwd" to confirm I was using bash, and the  
line I got ended with   
   
:/usr/bin/bash   
  
  
  
   
Iv?n 




From wweston at att.net  Mon Nov  8 14:34:49 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 19:34:49 GMT
Subject: MySQLdb installation
In-Reply-To: <418f99db$0$175$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <418f99db$0$175$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <tTPjd.865546$Gx4.820463@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

T. Kaufmann wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> RDBMS MySQL works fine on my machine. I want to install MySQL-python 
> 1.0.0 under Red Hat 9.0.
> 
>  >>> platform.platform()
> 'Linux-2.4.20-8-i686-with-redhat-9-Shrike'
> 
> There are some problems. If I call python
> 
> setup.py build
> 
> there are lots of errors:
> 
> _mysql.c:41:19: mysql.h: File not found
> 
> What can I do? How can I fix it?
> 
> o-o
> 
> Thomas

Thomas,
    I believe the mysql.h file that is not being found
is part of the mysql developement package (and not the
MySQLDB package). If you do have mysql.h somewhere, it
is not in your include path.
wes



From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Nov 30 03:23:27 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:23:27 +0100
Subject: Question of Optionparse
References: <41aba86d$0$2074$39db0f71@news.song.fi>
Message-ID: <cohalk$99p$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Pekka Niiranen wrote:

> How can I STOP Optionparse to process boolean
> value as parameter. See this:
> 
>  >>> parser = optparse.OptionParser()
>  >>> parser.add_option("-x",dest='xxx', action="store_true",help="xxx")
>  >>> parser.add_option("-r",dest='root',help="directory",type="string")
>  >>> args = ["-r", "d:", "-x"]
>  >>> parser.parse_args(args)
> (<Values at 0x13bbbc0: {'xxx': True, 'root': 'd:'}>, [])
> 
> Last line is correct: boolean 'xxx' gets set 'True'
> and parameter 'root' to 'd:'
> 
> However when value is NOT given for '-r' but '-x' exists:
> 
>  >>> args = ["-r", "-x"]
>  >>> parser.parse_args(args)
> (<Values at 0x13ccf80: {'xxx': None, 'root': '-x'}>, [])
> 
> This is BS: I expected 'root' to be None and 'xxx' to be 'True'.
> How can I make it so?

I think you need a callback option.

> Another question: Is there a way to store options
> directly into user defined dictionary without assignment
> like this:
> 
> my_environment_values = {}
> (options, args) = parser.parse_args()
> environment_values["xxx"] = options.xxx

environment_values.update(options.__dict__)

Full example:

import optparse

def callback(option, opt, value, parser):
    rargs = parser.rargs
    if rargs and not rargs[0].startswith("-"):
        parser.values.root = rargs.pop(0)
    else:
        parser.values.root = "<no value provided>"
    
parser = optparse.OptionParser()
parser.add_option("-x", "--xtra-terrestrial", action="store_true")
parser.add_option("-r", "--root", action="callback", callback=callback)

options, args = parser.parse_args()

environment = {}
environment.update(options.__dict__)

print environment

Peter



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Nov 22 06:50:32 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:50:32 +0100
Subject: Python-2.3.4 on OSF1 V4.0?
References: <9fbcd7cf.0411191154.453fb8ff@posting.google.com><419e6590$0$562$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<9fbcd7cf.0411201747.1bfb160e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cnsjq8$pi0$1@sea.gmane.org>

Edmond Rusjan wrote:

> I don't understand if the '_E' in '_Esetsockopt' is significant and/or
> where it comes from, but that's one difference that strikes me.
>
> [V4.0]$ grep setsockopt Modules/socketmodule.c|wc
>     11      39     498
> [V4.0]$ grep _Esetsockopt Modules/socketmodule.c|wc
>      0       0       0

the OSF/1 C libraries support multiple Unix dialects through a variety of
compatibility macros.  I'm not 100% sure, but I think _E is used for things
that explicitly require some level of X/Open-compatibility.

try adding a

#define _XOPEN_SOURCE_EXTENDED

to your test program (before you include the socket stuff), and see if
it still works.

if that breaks your test program, adding a corresponding #undef to the
socket module's source code might help.

</F> 





From edmond.rusjan at gmail.com  Tue Nov 23 17:07:01 2004
From: edmond.rusjan at gmail.com (Edmond Rusjan)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 14:07:01 -0800
Subject: Python-2.3.4 on OSF1 V4.0?
References: <9fbcd7cf.0411191154.453fb8ff@posting.google.com><419e6590$0$562$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>	<9fbcd7cf.0411201747.1bfb160e@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6691.1101124240.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9fbcd7cf.0411231407.506bd81e@posting.google.com>

Thank you so much, Martin and Fredrik.

As you advised, added near the top of socketmodule.c (after #import Python.h):

#undef _XOPEN_SOURCE_EXTENDED
#define _POSIX_PII_SOCKET
#undef HAVE_SOCKADDR_SA_LEN

It built cleanly and socket now imports.


From rtilley at vt.edu  Sun Nov  7 20:41:20 2004
From: rtilley at vt.edu (Brad Tilley)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 20:41:20 -0500
Subject: Stop spaces from appearing when printing to file
In-Reply-To: <418ec9ff$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <cmmgiu$id5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <418ec9ff$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <418ECEC0.3000205@vt.edu>

Kent Johnson wrote:
> Brad Tilley wrote:
> 
>> I'm printing some info into a txt file that will be uploaded into a 
>> MySQL DB. I use ';' as field separaters. How can I stop spaces from 
>> appearing on both sides of the ';'
> 
> 
> The spaces are a feature of print. To avoid them, use string formatting 
> to create a single output string.
> 
>> print >> x,';',object,";",AN_string,";",ascii,";",sum
> 
> 
> Try
> print >> x, ';%s;%s;%s;%s' % (object, AN_string, ascii, sum)
> 
> Kent

Thanks Kent, this works great.


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Sun Nov 14 22:38:01 2004
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Nicholas Wieland)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 04:38:01 +0100
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrncpg94p.1f9.invalid@pixie.subbacultcha.home>

- Will Stuyvesant :
> Hello all,
>
> So Zope still lives, yay.  Well, I like that they use Python.  
>
><rant>
>
> What amazed me is they write that they "added types to the variables
> and hope that it will be added to the Python project too".  Really. 
> ROFL.

Sorry, probably I'm just tired (work to buy coffee <-> drink coffee to 
work inifite loop, as usual :p), but I can't find where exactly they
made such a claim. I'm really interested in this because a friend of
mine (Volonghi) asked me exactly the same question... I think that
"someone - somewhere" misunderstood what interfaces are, but I'm not
sure. The only thing I'm sure is that I'm writing components for ZopeX3
in plain old good Python from milestone 3 :)

> And instead of working on the engine they should have put more work
> into examples.  Simple tutorials.

What about the programmers tutorial (http://snipurl.com/amy9) and the
Developer Book (http://snipurl.com/amyb) ? 

> Downloadable executables for Windows that you can click and install.

Like the .exe here http://snipurl.com/amyd ? I'm not a Windows user,
sorry, can't really help here :)

> But most of all simple and good examples: webapplications like
> - a wiki in zope

http://snipurl.com/amyh

> - a forum in zope, with agenda and calendar

Maybe the example of the developer book can help: Stephan explains the
main concepts of ZX3 by implementing a messageboard.

> - a game like http://216.199.69.100/war/ in zope

Can't help here. BTW, I think that the zwiki, the bugtracker and all the
documentation is enought for now - I've seen too much ultrastable
software with a man page and an hello world called "documentation" to
complain the developers for that :) 

> They have a nice free webhosting thing for zope, but to expect new
> users to do everything from scratch...
> The "examples" I found were very disappointing.

Why ? ...

HAND,
  ngw


From gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com  Mon Nov 29 15:49:30 2004
From: gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com (Gabriel Cooper)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:49:30 -0500
Subject: Python UPS / FedEx Shipping Module
Message-ID: <41AB8B5A.2000005@mediapulse.com>

Is there an existing UPS and FedEx capable shipping (as in, price 
quotes) module out there? I have UPS working but now I need FedEx and 
was curious whether I'd be reinventing the wheel. ;) Web searches didn't 
reveal anything particularly interesting.

Also, anyone know what happened to the "payment" sourceforge.net 
project? it was only a few python files on CVS of connecting to various 
online stores, but it seems to be deleted now. I had to update it to 
work with newer python libraries, and wanted to contribute my changes 
back to it but in the mean time it disappeared from sourceforge!

Thanks,

Gabriel.


From fake at not-real.bogus  Fri Nov  5 14:50:34 2004
From: fake at not-real.bogus (Matt Garman)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 19:50:34 GMT
Subject: tempfile and curses (putwin() and getwin())
Message-ID: <slrnconmcg.pjh.fake@sewage.raw-sewage.fake>

I've been working on a curses-based application in Python.  My
application effectively has a series of screens (or windows).  When
one screen closes, the previous screen should be exactly redrawin in
its original state (i.e., before the sub-screen was created).

As far as I can tell, the putwin() and getwin() functions can easily
solve this problem.  So I can do something like this:

    # draw/write some stuff on stdscr...
    addStuffToStdScr()
    
    # save the state of stdscr to a file named 'windata'
    f = open('windata', 'w+b')
    stdscr.putwin(f)
    f.close()
    
    # now create a subwindow (which over-writes some or all
    # of stdscr), and do whatever needs to be done...
    subWindowRoutine()
    
    # resurrect stdscr be reading 'windata'
    f = open('windata', 'r')
    stdscr = curses.getwin(f)
    f.close()
    
    stdscr.refresh()

That works as I expect.  However, I'd like to use the tempfile
module, rather than manage my own window data cache (this data needs
to exist only for the duration of the application).  However, if I
try to use the tempfile module, ala:

    addStuffToStdScr()

    tmpfile = tempfile.TemporaryFile()
    stdscr.putwin(tmpfile)

    subWindowRoutine()

    stdscr = curses.getwin(tmpfile)
    stdscr.refresh()

Then an exception is thrown and I get the following message:

    stdscr.refresh()
    _curses.error: refresh() for a pad requires 6 arguments

Any thoughts as to what I'm doing wrong?  Or can tempfile simply not
be used in such a manner?  Is there a better (or more appropriate
way) to get a generic file buffer?  Or a better way to save screen
state in curses?

Thanks!
Matt

-- 
Matt Garman
email at: http://raw-sewage.net/index.php?file=email


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Nov 21 22:47:56 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 22:47:56 -0500
Subject: Nagging problem with MySQLdb
In-Reply-To: <cnrffo$c4s$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <cnrffo$c4s$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cnrncj$ota$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Phillip wrote:
> I hate the way one has to jump through countless hoops to put data in a 
> db and get it out again. 

You would have it much easier if you discovered how to use
more of Python's capabilities to write shorter code... see
some ideas below.

> # going through the DictList and adding the
> # datasets into the db
> for line in sourceLinesDictList:
>     # also adding some data for fields that the DB table has but our
>     # DictList does't (data01,02,29)
>     data01 = 'source-one'
>     data02 = '0',
>     data03 = line['payments-status'],
....
>     data10 = line['sku'],
>     data11 = float(line['price'].replace(',','.',1)),
....
>     data16 = int(line['batch-id']),

For this sort of code, you can often make it more data-driven,
along these lines (I use globals() instead of an object since
I'm not sure you're familiar with OO programming, but an object
would make this even cleaner):

for line in sourceLinesDictList:
     for i, (key, type) in enumerate([
         ('source-one', 'direct'),
         ('0', 'direct'),
         ('payments-status', 'str'),
         ...
         ('sku', 'str'),
         ('price', 'float'),
         ('batch-id', 'int'),
         ...]):
         if type == 'direct':
             val = key
         elif type == 'str':
             val = line[key]
         elif type == 'float':
             val = float(line[key].replace(',','.',1))
         elif type == 'int':
             val = int(line[key])
         globals()['data%02d' % i] = val

In other words, use a list containing the names and "types" of
information, and programmatically create variables in the
global namespace, eliminating all duplication in the extraction
of data from "line".

>     baseFeed.execute(
>         """INSERT INTO position
>         (plattform,
>         position_id,
>         payments-status,
>         order-id,
...
>         VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, 
> %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s);"""
>         [data01, data02, data03, data04, data05, data06, data07, data08, 
> data09, data10, data11, data12, data13, data14, data15, data16, data17, 
> data18, data19, data20, data21, data22, data23, data24, data25, data26, 
> data27, data28, data29]
>     )

Having done the insertion into globals() above, you could now replace
this monster with something like this:

          ... VALUES (%s);""" % ', '.join(dataList)

(in other words, inserting the list of data items, with commas
separating them) where dataList had previously been formed in a
manner something like this:

     dataList = [globals()['data%02d' % i] for i in xrange(1, 30)]

...and similar ideas.

I hope something in here helps you make this task more manageable...

-Peter


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Nov 10 04:05:14 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:05:14 +0100
Subject: Packing list elements into tuples
References: <cmrcqq$rv4$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <cmslid$t38$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Nickolay Kolev wrote:

> I have a list whose length is a multiple of 3. I want to get a list??of
> tuples each of which has 3 consecutive elements from the original list,
> thus packing the list into smaller packets. Like this:

> ... dictionaries ... would be even better:

> l = [1,2,3,4,5,6]
> 
> tups = [
> {'first':1,'second':2,'third':3},
> {'first':4,'second':5,'third':6}
> ]

itertools to the rescue:

>>> from itertools import *
>>> names = "first second third".split()
>>> items = range(6)
>>> map(dict, takewhile(bool, starmap(zip, repeat((names, iter(items))))))
[{'second': 1, 'third': 2, 'first': 0}, {'second': 4, 'third': 5, 'first':
3}]

Fun, but not recommended. There must be a simpler expression where you need
not mention len(names) explicitly - but right now I can't think of one.
Note how the nonzero len(items) % len(names) case is handled:

>>> map(dict, takewhile(bool, starmap(zip, repeat((names,
iter(range(5)))))))
[{'second': 1, 'third': 2, 'first': 0}, {'second': 4, 'first': 3}]

However, in real life I would rather go with Steven Bethard's two-step
approach...

Peter






From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov 25 14:28:00 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 19:28:00 GMT
Subject: dictionary initialization
References: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <41a62df4.1003031613@news.oz.net>

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 18:38:17 +0000 (UTC), wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca (Weiguang Shi) wrote:

>Hi,
>
>With awk, I can do something like
>    $ echo 'hello' |awk '{a[$1]++}END{for(i in a)print i, a[i]}'
>
>That is, a['hello'] was not there but allocated and initialized to
>zero upon reference.
>
>With Python, I got
>    >>> b={}
>    >>> b[1] = b[1] +1
>    Traceback (most recent call last):
>      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>    KeyError: 1
>
>That is, I have to initialize b[1] explicitly in the first place.
>
>Personally, I think
>
>    a[i]++
>
>in awk is much more elegant than
>
>    if i in a: a[i] += 1
>    else: a[i] = 1
>
>I wonder how the latter is justified in Python.
>
You wrote it, so you have to "justify" it ;-)

While I agree that ++ and -- are handy abbreviations, and creating a key by default
makes for concise notation,  a[i]++ means you have to make some narrow assumptions -- i.e.,
that you want to create a zero integer start value. You can certainly make a dict subclass
that behaves that way if you want it:

 >>> class D(dict):
 ...      def __getitem__(self, i):
 ...          if i not in self: self[i] = 0
 ...          return dict.__getitem__(self, i)
 ...
 >>> dink = D()
 >>> dink
 {}
 >>> dink['a'] +=1
 >>> dink
 {'a': 1}
 >>> dink['a'] +=1
 >>> dink
 {'a': 2}
 >>> dink['b']
 0
 >>> dink['b']
 0
 >>> dink
 {'a': 2, 'b': 0}


Otherwise the usual ways are along the lines of

 >>> d = {}
 >>> d.setdefault('hello',[0])[0] += 1
 >>> d
 {'hello': [1]}
 >>> d.setdefault('hello',[0])[0] += 1
 >>> d
 {'hello': [2]}

Or
 >>> d['hi'] = d.get('hi', 0) + 1
 >>> d
 {'hi': 1, 'hello': [2]}
 >>> d['hi'] = d.get('hi', 0) + 1
 >>> d
 {'hi': 2, 'hello': [2]}
 >>> d['hi'] = d.get('hi', 0) + 1
 >>> d
 {'hi': 3, 'hello': [2]}

Or
 >>> for x in xrange(3):
 ...     try: d['yo'] += 1
 ...     except KeyError: d['yo'] = 1
 ...     print d
 ...
 {'hi': 3, 'hello': [2], 'yo': 1}
 {'hi': 3, 'hello': [2], 'yo': 2}
 {'hi': 3, 'hello': [2], 'yo': 3}

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From gtcopeland2002 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 15 10:53:41 2004
From: gtcopeland2002 at yahoo.com (Greg Copeland)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 07:53:41 -0800
Subject: Python port?
Message-ID: <1100534021.494482.28880@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I am nearing the completion of porting Python 2.3.4 to VxWorks 5.5.
Unlike previous python/vxworks porting efforts, this project attempts
to create a fully functional and robust port of Python, running on
VxWorks 5.5+.  I am attempting to create a Python SIG to support this
effort.  Now would be a great time to hear from those interested in
this port.



From edmond.rusjan at gmail.com  Fri Nov 19 14:54:04 2004
From: edmond.rusjan at gmail.com (Edmond Rusjan)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 11:54:04 -0800
Subject: Python-2.3.4 on OSF1 V4.0?
Message-ID: <9fbcd7cf.0411191154.453fb8ff@posting.google.com>

Hi All,

I'd like to use Python-2.3.4 on OSF1 V4.0, but have trouble
installing.
With a plain "./configure; make" build, I cannot import socket.
If I uncomment the socketmodule in Modules/Setup, the build fails.
Using gcc 3.4.2. Had no problem on OSF1 V5.1, Linux and Sun.
Have not been able to find reference to a similar problem in
comp.lang.python.

Thanks for any tip or reference,
Edmond

Details:

Plain "./configure; make" build:
[Python-2.3.4_no_socket]$ ./python
Python 2.3.4 (#4, Nov 17 2004, 17:01:35)
[GCC 3.4.2] on osf1V4
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import socket
Traceback (most recent call last):
    ...
    import _socket
ImportError: No module named _socket
>>>

With "_socket socketmodule.c" uncommented in Modules/Setup:
[Python-2.3.4]$ make
gcc -pthread   -o python \
                Modules/python.o \
                libpython2.3.a -lrt    -lm 
_Esetsockopt
_Egetsockopt
_Erecv
_Esend
_Esendto
_Econnect
_Ebind
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [python] Error 1

Wrote, compiled and ran a simple test program which binds to a socket
and listens: no problem.

First few line of config.log:
...
It was created by python configure 2.3, which was
generated by GNU Autoconf 2.57.  Invocation command line was

  $ ./configure 

## --------- ##
## Platform. ##
## --------- ##

hostname = alpha-s16.ajb.org
uname -m = alpha
uname -r = V4.0
uname -s = OSF1
uname -v = 1229

/usr/bin/uname -p = alpha
/bin/uname -X     = unknown

/bin/arch              = unknown
/usr/bin/arch -k       = unknown
/usr/convex/getsysinfo = unknown
hostinfo               = unknown
/bin/machine           = alpha
/usr/bin/oslevel       = unknown
/bin/universe          = unknown

PATH: /usr/users/ajbddg/edmond/tools2/bin
PATH: /usr/users/ajbddg/edmond/tools/bin
PATH: /usr/local/bin
PATH: /usr/bin
PATH: /bin
PATH: /usr/sbin
PATH: /sbin
PATH: /usr/local/bin
PATH: /u01/app/oracle/product/8.1.6/bin


## ----------- ##
## Core tests. ##
## ----------- ##

configure:1402: checking MACHDEP
configure:1511: result: osf1V4
configure:1517: checking EXTRAPLATDIR
configure:1532: result: 
configure:1545: checking for --without-gcc
configure:1594: result: no
configure:1600: checking for --with-cxx=<compiler>
configure:1621: result: no
configure:1640: checking for c++
configure:1656: found /usr/users/ajbddg/edmond/tools2/bin/c++
configure:1666: result: c++
configure:1707: checking for C++ compiler default output
configure:1710: c++    conftest.cc  >&5
configure:1713: $? = 0
configure:1759: result: a.out
configure:1764: checking whether the C++ compiler works
configure:1770: ./a.out
configure:1773: $? = 0
configure:1790: result: yes
configure:1797: checking whether we are cross compiling
configure:1799: result: no
configure:1802: checking for suffix of executables
configure:1804: c++ -o conftest    conftest.cc  >&5
configure:1807: $? = 0
configure:1832: result: 
configure:1906: checking for gcc
configure:1922: found /usr/users/ajbddg/edmond/tools2/bin/gcc
configure:1932: result: gcc
configure:2176: checking for C compiler version
configure:2179: gcc --version </dev/null >&5
gcc (GCC) 3.4.2
...


From atterdan at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  5 04:43:40 2004
From: atterdan at yahoo.com (John Doe)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 09:43:40 GMT
Subject: Script Generation, help!
References: <mailman.5952.1099638388.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.05.09.41.35.628017@yahoo.com>

Some times I think my question are cryptic.

text name = a number. Try a dictionary

myDict = {} # empty defination
myDict[Spam1] = 123939392
myDict[Spam2] = 439322
myDict[Spam3] = 23233.232

Now as to storage with an extension. Thats not so tricky, it's just 
that your requirement is so vague.

To save the data myDict ...
	import pickle
	fp = open('myfile.myspecialext', 'w')
	pickle.dump( myDict, fp )
	fp.close()

To reload the data ...
	import pickle
	fp = open( 'myfile.myspecialext', 'r')
	myDict = pickle.load( fp )

Now if you have some special format the data is stored in, you may want to
visit Parser. I've not had a chance to use it, but the description is
pretty neat. 

Hope this is something like what you want.

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 07:06:15 +0000, digital_ant2 wrote:

> 
> I'm new to python, so I'll be at detailed as I can be.
> 
> I need to generate a script where each line is like this:
> 
> Spam=(x)
> Spam=(y)
> Spam=(z)
> 
> each entry being on their own line, Spam is a string of text and
> x,y,and z are random numbers, I also need it to be exported to a text
> file with a specified extension.... being completely NEW to python I
> push in the right direction would be really helpfull!
> 
> Thanks,
> Pat



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Nov  2 09:01:16 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 09:01:16 -0500
Subject: Newbie question
In-Reply-To: <783d0f8c.0411012330.4172d1d4@posting.google.com>
References: <783d0f8c.0411012330.4172d1d4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8vudnfBCkdi2DhrcRVn-jA@powergate.ca>

Uday wrote:
> My problem is that I need to dynamically generate a unique 
> variable within a for loop in Python. The name of the variable
> should be appended by the index of the loop. 

This is rarely a useful thing to do.  How do you plan to
access the variable in the rest of the code if the name
is generated dynamically?

Usually, people who think they want to do this should be
using a dictionary instead.

-Peter


From changli_to at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 25 12:14:30 2004
From: changli_to at hotmail.com (Chang LI)
Date: 25 Nov 2004 09:14:30 -0800
Subject: Use Python library from C++
References: <89cc6e1f.0411241939.61a19596@posting.google.com>
	<1101364143.006433.314340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<ukgpd.12554$Vy.6850@trndny06>
Message-ID: <89cc6e1f.0411250914.24131f1b@posting.google.com>

"Chris S." <chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu> wrote in message news:<ukgpd.12554$Vy.6850 at trndny06>...
> zhao wrote:
> 
> > Try boost.python and SWIG?
> > (boost.sourceforge.net, swig.sourceforge.net)
> > 
> > Both provide a interface between C/C++ and python
> > if you want gui under python, you also can try wxpython or pygtk
> 
> I thought SWIG ported C/C++ libraries to Perl, Python, Ruby, Tcl, etc? 
> How would you use it to port Python into C/C++?
> 

SWIG is for Python to use C++. I am searching for in reverse.

> I think what you're looking for is instruction on how to embed Python in 
> your C/C++ application.


From Johannes.Nix at gmx.net  Thu Nov 11 16:31:57 2004
From: Johannes.Nix at gmx.net (Johannes Nix)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:31:57 +0100
Subject: permuting letters and fairy tales
Message-ID: <67lld8kr76.fsf@aster.homelinux.net>


Hello,

yesterday I met a cute person (after my dance class) who told me about an
interesting experiment regarding cognition. People were told to read a
typed text; However, in every word in the text, only the first and the
last letter were in the right place. The other letters had their
positions changed in an arbitrary manner. The surprising result, I was
told, was that people can read this mixed-up text fairly well.

Because I am a somewhat sceptical guy, at times, and because I thought
that I deserved some play, I decided to code the rule above in a
scriptlet. The resulting 23 lines are below, and the outcome is quite
interesting, not only from the point of view of librarians ;-) :

--------------------------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/python
import sys
import locale
import string
import re
import Numeric
import RandomArray

locale.setlocale(locale.LC_CTYPE, '')
wordsep = re.compile('([^%s])' % string.letters)

for line in sys.stdin.xreadlines():
    for word in wordsep.split(line):
        if word and word[0] in string.letters:
            word = string.lower(word)
            wlen = len(word)
            if wlen > 3:
                wa = Numeric.array(word)
                perm = RandomArray.permutation(wlen-2)
                wa[1:wlen-1] = Numeric.take(wa[1:wlen-1],perm)
                word = wa.tostring()
        sys.stdout.write('%s' % word)

--------------------------------------------------
 

For the Uninitiated, Numeric is a package which deals with array data;
arrays are mutable sequences and Numeric.take() can reorder items in
them; RandomArray.permutation() delivers the randomized reordering we
need.

Now I have two innocent questions:

- Is it possible to make it a bit more concise ;-))) ?

- Can it coerced to run a little bit faster ?
  (on my oldish, 300 MHz-AMD K6 , run time looks like this
  for a famous, 2663-word-long fairy tale from the Grimm's brothers:

  nix at aster:~> time <HaenselundGretel.txt ./python/perlmutt.py  >v
  
  real    0m6.970s
  user    0m3.634s
  sys     0m0.120s
  

And two remarks what is interesting about it:

- It's a good example how powerful libraries, like
  Numeric, make one's life easier. (BTW, why is Numeric 
  and stuff like take() still not included in the standard
  Library ? Batteries included, but calculator not ?)

- Perhaps it's useful to protect messages in some
  regions with not-so-democratic forms of government
  against automatic scanning by making the message 
  machine-unreadable, causing some Orwellian Confusion ;-) ?
  Of course, texts from Pythonistas would remain suspicious,
  due to the large number of "y" occurring in them....

have a nice evening....

Johannes




From exarkun at divmod.com  Wed Nov 10 21:38:48 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 02:38:48 GMT
Subject: Sorting email addresses by domain
In-Reply-To: <20041111015848.QUUY10582.aamta03-winn.mailhost.ntl.com@Bender>
Message-ID: <20041111023848.20649.1359029871.divmod.quotient.2245@ohm>

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 01:58:35 -0000, "Peter Murray" <pdmurray at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>Hi! I hope someone can assist me, I have been using Python for a year or
> two, but I am not a programmer and only use it occasionally for small issues
> or just for fun. So I perhaps do not have the right 'mindset' to always see
> the answer to a problem.
> 
> Anyway, I have a list of email address and I want to sort them by domain.
> List.sort() wont work as this looks at the start of each address only. So
> the answer I have come up with is to split each email address around the
> "@", swap the position of the name and domain, build a new list with these
> and then sort this. Then switch positions back, and join with an "@". It
> works, but it seems a little inelegant. Is there a better, or easier way to
> do this?

  In Python 2.3,

    def key(addr):
        parts = addr.split('@')
        parts.reverse()
        return parts
    addresses.sort(lambda a, b: cmp(key(a), key(b)))

  In Python 2.4, re-using the above definition of key:

    addresses.sort(key=key)

  Jp


From codedivine at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 04:01:51 2004
From: codedivine at gmail.com (Rahul Garg)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 01:01:51 -0800
Subject: arrays
References: <a2f50cd.0411151042.45487164@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6387.1100545114.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a2f50cd.0411170101.4c66e3ea@posting.google.com>

Hi.
Thanks for the help. Its really simple and i shud have thought it
myself.
Some clarifications :
1. I will mostly be storing floating point numbers in 2 dimensional
arrays which i will pass to a custom module written in C. The
application is for scientific computing purposes.I just need python +
wxPython for the GUI.

2.I am not using Numarray because i dont expect to do many operations
on the matrices in Python itself. Most of that stuff will be handled
in my C module.
The decision of not doing the matrix operations in Python is because
most of the C code is already ready. Though it is written as
standalone command line app currently , converting it into an
extension module shudnt be much of a problem.

Rahul


John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.6387.1100545114.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> >>>>> "Rahul" == Rahul Garg <codedivine at gmail.com> writes:
> 
>     Rahul> Hi.  Is there someway i can get something similar to
>     Rahul> multi-dimensional arrays in python.I dont want to use
>     Rahul> Numarray
> 
> Yes, you can use lists of lists for example.  
> 
>   x = [ [None for i in range(10)] for j in range (12)]
>   x[1][2] = 1
> 
> But it would help if you stated what your requirements are for the
> multi-dim array, what kind of objects you want to store in them, what
> kind of operations you need to be able to do, what your performance
> requirements are, and why you don't want to use numarray or Numeric
> for that matter.
> 
> 
> JDH


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Wed Nov 10 08:18:28 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:18:28 -0500
Subject: ANN: IPython 0.6.4 is out.
In-Reply-To: <cmrni8$mpr$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.6129.1099948743.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmpsam$l3i$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>	<mailman.6171.1100021758.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmrgjg$7hf$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<cmrni8$mpr$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <41921524.3010804@bellsouth.net>

Fernando Perez wrote:

>Robert Kern wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Fernando Perez wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Thanks!  That is indeed my intention, so I'll probably follow your advice. 
>>>But will this mean that unsuspecting souls using CVS will get HEAD
>>>automatically? If that's the case, I'll add a nice warning about HEAD
>>>becoming _really_
>>>unstable for a while, so I don't burn anyone.  So far HEAD has been the
>>>place for users to get cutting-edge bugfixes, so at least I should warn them
>>>that this may change in the future.
>>>      
>>>
>>You could also leave CVS HEAD as it is and hop on the SVN bandwagon for
>>the new version.
>>
>>Come on! You know you want to!
>>    
>>
>
>Mmh.  I've thought about it.  The problem is that I'm addicted to Cervisia
>(KDE's CVS gui), esp. to its super-clean graphical diff interface.  And SVN
>support in cervisia is not there yet, unfortunately.  Suggestions?
>
>f
>
>  
>
Sounds like you need to get off of that dinosaur of an operating system 
you're running and move to something a little more modern.  Like Windows 
XP.  That way, you can use TortoiseSVN.  :-)

All joking aside, I've found that TortoiseSVN (<blush> yes, on Windows) 
is actually a pretty good tool.  I do all of my real work on my Linux 
station, then when I get ready to commit (or what have you), I go to my 
Windows box, look at the Samba network share, and use Tortoise.

I just checked and there is a decent-looking-at-first-glance GUI tool 
available for SVN called RapidSVN.  I downloaded it for Linux, but, 
alas, it requires wxWindows and I don't have that installed and 
configured on that box just yet.  So, I installed it on (<blush> again) 
Windows and it doesn't look too bad.  I think I'll spend some time today 
and get RapidSVN running on my Linux box as I would love to be able to 
do everything from one place.

So, if you're thinking about SVN, you may want to take a peek at Rapid 
(http://rapidsvn.tigris.org/).  AFAICT, this is the only GUI client that 
will work on Linux that is being actively developed.  Found a couple of 
projects on SourceForge, but nothing looks alive.

Jeremy Jones
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From frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com  Thu Nov 25 07:11:12 2004
From: frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com (Frithiof Andreas Jensen)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 13:11:12 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>	<mailman.6614.1100891946.5135.python-list@python.org>	<419E6C13.1040508@v.loewis.de>	<mailman.6634.1100915976.5135.python-list@python.org>	<419fc77d$0$198$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<mailman.6650.1100991642.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cnrm2b$l0s$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <co4htu$ktj$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>


"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:cnrm2b$l0s$1 at utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net...

> Hmm... sounds like they have set the bar very, very low right now...

America has become The Land of The Lawyers - neatly illustrated by the
replacement of  Cowboys, Saloon and Praerie(?) with Armani Suits, Court
Rooms and Open-plan Offices on Television programming - so the
Lawyer-politicians decided to remove the bar altogether and leave the
Lawyer-lawyers to get rich on debating the merits of trivial patents at USD
1000 per hour in the legal system.

Eventually the tide will change again.




From greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com  Mon Nov  1 12:01:06 2004
From: greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com (Greg Lindstrom)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 11:01:06 -0600
Subject: Matching Control Characters
Message-ID: <00fd01c4c034$612a48d0$054b12ac@D18SYX41>

> Use the escape for Control-M: \x0D
> Reinhold

Thank-you.  That does the trick!  If you would be so kind, where does one
look up the escape values for control sequences?  As they say: Build a man a
fire and he's warm for a day.  Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest
of his life.


Greg Lindstrom                                         (501) 975-4859
NovaSys Health                  greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams"  W.W.



From mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net  Thu Nov 18 20:22:22 2004
From: mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net (Jean Brouwers)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 01:22:22 GMT
Subject: Wrapping a C library in Python
References: <roy-99F088.20103518112004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <181120041723271813%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>


Take a close look at Pyrex at

<http://nz.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/>


/Jean Brouwers
 ProphICy Semiconductor, Inc.


In article <roy-99F088.20103518112004 at reader1.panix.com>, Roy Smith
<roy at panix.com> wrote:

> I've got a C library with about 50 calls in it that I want to wrap in 
> Python.  I know I could use some tool like SWIG, but that will give me a 
> too-literal translation; I want to make some modifications along the way 
> to make the interface more Pythonic.
> 
> For example, all of these functions return an error code (typically just 
> errno passed along, but not always).  They all accept as one of their 
> arguments a pointer to someplace to store their result.  I want to 
> change all that to returning the result directly and throwing exceptions.
> 
> I also want to mutate some of the return types.  A common way these 
> functions return a set of values is a pair of arrays of strings, forming 
> key-value pairs.  In Python, it would make sense to return this as a 
> dictionary.
> 
> I know what I'm describing is kind of vague, but are there tools around 
> which might help automate (at least in part) this translation process?


From mwm at mired.org  Wed Nov 10 16:16:26 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:16:26 -0600
Subject: ZIP files
References: <808f000f.0411100805.7bff7e5d@posting.google.com>
	<qjp4p0dp83ej0e5js9n6inippgpqefb59e@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <x73bzhpfpx.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Ivo Woltring <Python at IvoNet.nl> writes:

> On 10 Nov 2004 08:05:28 -0800, oriana.falco at thalesesec.com (Oriana)
> You might wish to try using a larger buffer than 8192 bytes.  BTW,
> note that Python automatically closes the files since the file objects
> are released when the function returns.

This behavior of file objects isn't guaranteed and doesn't happen in
Jython. It's better - and more pythonic - to explicitly close files.

After all, explicit is better than implicit.

      <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Fri Nov  5 11:05:53 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 16:05:53 GMT
Subject: inferred typing
References: <slrncohibr.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<du78y9jqbu0.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<c56b627e.0411032129.42843794@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrncon96t.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>

Thanks for your responses.

Both Boo and Starkiller sound quite interesting.
Boo seems to have some momentum, but what about Starkiller, once the PhD is
finished?

Also, both are python compilers.
I was hoping for something more like Hotspot for Java, i.e.,
something which compiles parts of the python script that turn out not to be
really dynamic at run-time and that are executed a lot.

Anything along those lines?

In addition, I am not sure that any effort that is not integrated into
mainstream Python will have a real chance to achieve widespread use ...

Best regards,
Gabriel.

-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| There are works which wait,                                             |
| and which one does not understand for a long time; [...]                |
| for the question often arrives a terribly long time after the answer.   |
|                                                         (Oscar Wilde)   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From msw at iee.lu  Fri Nov  5 06:17:44 2004
From: msw at iee.lu (Manfred Schwab)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 12:17:44 +0100
Subject: Python for 8/16 Bit MSDOS ( 486 / 586 / K5 / K6/ Beck-IPC )
	processors.
Message-ID: <418B6158.3C7BD9B1@iee.lu>

Hi there,
which versions of python are usable under MS-DOS 5.0 oder 6.22 or Dr.
DOS.

I want to use it under a industrial environment to collect measuring
data like temperature, moist and signalconditions with a Beck industrial
PC. Did somebody try this already ? Is there a certain URL where i can
get further information.





Thanks in advance for help.

Manfred

--
This e-mail may contain trade secrets or privileged, undisclosed or
otherwise confidential information. If you are not the intended
recipient and  have received this e-mail in error, you are hereby
notified that any review, copying or distribution of it is strictly
prohibited. Please inform us immediately and destroy the original
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From gregory.lielens at fft.be  Sat Nov 27 08:19:10 2004
From: gregory.lielens at fft.be (gregory lielens)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 14:19:10 +0100
Subject: subclassing extension type and assignment to __class__
Message-ID: <41a87eb5$0$13482$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

Hello,

I am currently writing python bindings to an existing C++ library, and I 
just encountered a problem that I hope has been solved by more 
experienced python programmers:

A C++ class (let's call it CClass) is binded using classical Python 
extension API to _PClass, which is accesible through python without any 
problem. The problem is that I want this class to be extended/extensible 
in python, and expose the python-extended version (PClass) to library 
users (_PClass should never be used directly nor be retruned by any 
function).
The aim is to leave only performance critical methods in C++ so that the 
binding work is minimal, and develop the other methods in python so that 
  they are easier to maintain/extend.

We thus have something like this

class PClass(_PClass):
   def overide_method(self,...):
     ...
   def new_method(self,...):
     ...

and I can define
a=PClass()
and use my new or overiden method
a.overide_method() a.new_method() as intended...

So far, so good, trouble begin when I have a method from another class 
PClass2 derived from _PClass2 which bind the C++ class CClass2, that 
should return objects of type PClass:

Let call this method troublesome_method:

b=_PClass2()
c=b.troublesome_method()
type(c) gives _PClass.

now I want to define a python class PClass2 for extending methods of 
_PClass2 like I have done for _PClass, in particular I want that PClass2 
troublesome_method return objects of type PClass instead of _PClass...

To this end I try something like this

class PClass2(_PClass2):
     ...
     def troubelsome_method(self):
        base=_PClass2.troublesome_method(self)
        base.__class__=PClass

and I have python complaining about TypeError: __class__ assignment: 
only for heap types...

It seems thus that my approach is not possible, but problem is that I 
can not see another approach that would not involve far more efforts 
that this one (I have the impression I have to forget about making my 
PClass derived from _PClass, but instead embed a _PClass instance in 
PClass, far from ideal cause I would have to reimplement all method, not 
only those that I want to change :( )
This is particularly frustrating cause I also have the impression that 
want I want to do was at one time possible in python, let say in 
2002-2003, when __class__ was already assignable but before assignment 
was forbidden for non-heap types

Any hint on this problem?

Thanks,

Greg.


From roy at panix.com  Tue Nov 30 08:45:45 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 08:45:45 -0500
Subject: comment out more than 1 line at once?
References: <cohc71$2pqli$1@claire.desy.de>
	<mailman.6908.1101807392.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cohg3q$2q1b5$1@claire.desy.de>
Message-ID: <roy-3E5877.08454530112004@reader1.panix.com>

Riko Wichmann <riko.wichmann at remove-this.desy.de> wrote:
> I'm using emacs (with python-mode) to do most of my editing. also tried 
> IDLE from python already, which is nice but an old dog doesn't like to 
> learn new tricks :)

Emacs is great for stuff like this.  There's probably other ways to do 
it, but what I would do is a quick keyboard macro.  Go to the beginning 
of the first line and type:

C-X ( # C-A C-N C-X )

That defines a macro which inserts a # then moves to the beginning of 
the next line.  Then you need to execute that once for each additional 
line you want to comment out.  If there's 17 additional lines, you would 
do:

C-U 1 7 C-X E

Hmmm.  I just did help-appropos on "comment" and of course I found the 
better way I suspected must exist :-)  You can just use M-X 
comment-region or M-X py-comment-region.

Still, learning how to do keyboard macros will really improve your 
productivity in emacs.  There's often a better way to do something, but 
for simple repetitive tasks, you can often write and execute a keyboard 
macro faster than you can look up the better way.


From hugh-m at moving-picture.com  Fri Nov 19 11:21:44 2004
From: hugh-m at moving-picture.com (Hugh Macdonald)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:21:44 GMT
Subject: Embedding/Extending Python at the same time...
Message-ID: <20041119162144.787ca7c2.hugh-m@moving-picture.com>

I've got a slight problem... and I'm stuck as to where to go with it...

I'm running on Redhat7.2, using Python 2.2.2

I've got a compiled module that I wrote almost a year ago - it works fine, and I've never had any problems with it...

I also did an extension to a plugin (Shake) using Python, so the plugin loads a python module and calls various functions in there....

all in all, fine - I thought I had my head around the system, and there were no problems...

However, I've just hit a problem...

If, in my plugin code, I import a module that is pure python, I'm fine. However, if I import my own compiled module, then I start having problems....

Initially, the module was compiled without linking to the actual python library. When I run the plugin, it fails, and PyErr_Print() prints out:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/people/hugh-m/dev/apps/hub/python/modules/noarch/hubdbremote.py", line 19, in ?
    import hub
ImportError: /usr/people/hugh-m/dev/apps/hub/python/modules/linux.redhat7.2.i386/hub.so: undefined symbol: PyFloat_Type


If I modify the SConstruct file so that the module links to the python library, it gives the following error:

Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?)

Any idea what I could do to get around either of these?

Should python modules be compiled with the library linked in?

The plugin is compiled with gcc3.2.1 (needed because it's a Shake plugin), and the module is compiled with gcc2.96 (because that is what Python needs it to be). Is this my issue? If so, how can I get around it?


Any suggestions most welcome... and apologies for the large number of questions..

Cheers

-- 
Hugh Macdonald
The Moving Picture Company


From news at svha.demon.co.uk  Fri Nov 19 15:22:27 2004
From: news at svha.demon.co.uk (Svha)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:22:27 +0000
Subject: Telnetlib & Term Types
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.19.20.22.27.435671@svha.demon.co.uk>

Greetings

I'd like to do some tweaks on a telnet session as I have no control over
the server side what so ever.

However I cannot correctly negotiate a telnet connection to the server.

I've gone back to basics on the code for simplicity here;

Linux 2.6 : Python 2.3.4
Telnetlib Module - http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.4/lib/module-telnetlib.html

import sys, telnetlib
tn = telnetlib.Telnet("xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx")
tn.mt_interact()

All goes well if I point this code to telnet to 127.0.0.1 (Login etc)

However if I point the code to telnet to the server I get;
Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 xxx.xxx.org
Error opening terminal: network.
Note - telnet from the console to this address works fine.

I have limited knowledge of telnet/terminals however I am beginning to
think that the "server" is trying to negotiate a terminal type
(vt100/vt220 I think) and telnetlib responds incorrectly/not at all.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated / is there a more suitable library
than telnetlib for my purpose?

Many thanks ..... Svha


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Wed Nov 17 11:21:33 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:21:33 -0700
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
 number of output arguments)
In-Reply-To: <30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <419B7A8D.9080501@pythonapocrypha.com>

Greg Ewing wrote:
> Jeremy Bowers wrote:
> 
>> Generally, returning a tuple is either a sign that your return value
>> should be wrapped up in a class, or the function is doing too much.
> 
> 
> While I suspect you may be largely right, I
> find myself wondering why this should be so. 

*Is* it largely right? I don't think so. As you said, there doesn't seem to be 
anything "wrong" with passing multiple pieces of data _into_ a function, so why 
should we assume that complex data passing should be so one way?

One of my biggest pet peeves about programming in C, for example, is that you 
are often forced to wrap stuff up into a structure just to pass data back and 
forth - you create the structure, populate it, send it, and then pull out the data.

In many, many cases this is nothing more than poor-man's tuple unpacking, and 
you end up with lots of extra work and lots of one-off structures. Also annoying 
is the use of "out" parameters, which is again basically manual tuple unpacking.

Python isn't too different from C wrt deciding when to move from "bare" 
parameters to a structure or object - is the number of parameters becoming 
cumbersome? are the interrelationships becoming complex? will I need to use 
those same parameters as a group elsewhere? etc. The difference is that Python 
facilitates more natural data passing on the return.

A function like divmod is a prime example; rather than having

div = 0
mod = 0
divmod(x,y, &div, &mod)

we instead have the much more elegant

div, mod = divmod(x,y)

We can definitely come up with some hints or guidelines ("if your function 
returns 10 parameters, that's probably bad" or "if the parameters are tightly 
coupled and/or are often used & passed along together to different functions, 
you probably should wrap them into an object"), but I don't think returning 
tuples is _generally_ a sign of anything good or bad.

-Dave


From tuglyraisin at aol.commcast  Wed Nov 17 00:43:10 2004
From: tuglyraisin at aol.commcast (Andrew Burton)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 05:43:10 GMT
Subject: COM/IIS permissions question
Message-ID: <20041117004310.22097.00000923@mb-m06.aol.com>

Anyone know where else I can find instructions for "Launching OLE Servers from
ISAPI Extensions"(1). I followed those instructions, even went so far as to
give a few other accounts permission, but my Python -- that's Python 2.2 --
script keeps given me the following error:

[error]

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "D:\JAROD\programming\python\pycgitunes\pycgitunes.py", line 12, in ?
    iTunes = win32com.client.Dispatch("iTunes.Application")
  File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\client\__init__.py", line 92, in
Dispatch
    dispatch, userName =
dynamic._GetGoodDispatchAndUserName(dispatch,userName,clsctx)
  File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 81, in
_GetGoodDispatchAndUserName
    return (_GetGoodDispatch(IDispatch, clsctx), userName)
  File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 72, in
_GetGoodDispatch
    IDispatch = pythoncom.CoCreateInstance(IDispatch, None, clsctx,
pythoncom.IID_IDispatch)
pywintypes.com_error: (-2146959355, 'Server execution failed', None, None)

[/error]

Here's the code I'm using, in case anyone's curious -- this is my first, REAL
Python program, so maybe it's just a glitch. Hoever, a thread from
mail.python.org's archives(2) and the fact that it works from an Interactive
shell makes me think that the ISAPI/COM security problem is the key. Anyway,
code...

[code]

# Libraries
import cgi
import cgitb
import win32com.client

# COM stuff
iTunes = win32com.client.Dispatch("iTunes.Application")

# global variables
form = cgi.FieldStorage()

#####
# Subroutines

# main code
cgitb.enable()

print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"
print "Hello, world"

[/code]

Any help would be appreciated -- any IIS/Python tips especially. Thanks!

---

1. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q156223/

2. http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/1999-November/015411.html

Andrew Burton - tuglyraisin at aol dot com
Felecia Station on Harvestgain - Jarod Godel in Second Life


From brion at pobox.com  Tue Nov 16 18:09:24 2004
From: brion at pobox.com (Brion Vibber)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 15:09:24 -0800
Subject: Identifying bundles in MacOS X
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6453.1100637384.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <Michael.J.Fromberger-2CA6CC.17042111112004@localhost>	<2vt7veF2nues7U1@uni-berlin.de>	<Michael.J.Fromberger-252D87.23144415112004@localhost>	<2vtsp6F2nlt2cU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.6453.1100637384.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2vvfkvF2qc181U1@uni-berlin.de>

Michael Tsai wrote:
> On Nov 16, 2004, at 3:41 AM, Brion Vibber wrote:
>>     LSItemInfoRecord info;
>>     LSCopyItemInfoForURL(url, kLSRequestAllInfo, &info);
> 
> I suggest using kLSRequestAllFlags instead of kLSRequestAllInfo, to 
> avoid leaking the strings in the LSItemInfoRecord.

Whoops, thanks for pointing that out!

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


From mwm at mired.org  Fri Nov 19 18:51:44 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:51:44 -0600
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.6614.1100891946.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<419E6C13.1040508@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <x7y8gxfldb.fsf@guru.mired.org>

"Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> writes:

> Neal D. Becker wrote:
>> Doesn't Python (along with probably every other language ever invented)
>> display prior art here?
>
> Wrt. claim 1, yes. Actually, C is prior art here: you have two
> expressions representing pointers, and you have a system where
> you can determine that the pointers refer to different memory
> locations.

LISP has had NEQ for about 40 years.

Can they actually get away with patenting the spelling of the
keywords in a language?

         <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From crjensen at gmail.com  Fri Nov 26 18:48:12 2004
From: crjensen at gmail.com (Chris)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 15:48:12 -0800
Subject: win32 problem with WM_COPYDATA
Message-ID: <b8c06209.0411261548.46495280@posting.google.com>

Hi.  I'm trying to make a python program that can recieve WM_COPYDATA
messages.  Not ideal, but the application I'll be receiving them from
will only send it that way.  So I wrote a small program to try to
receive them, and a smaller one to send test messages.  It't not
happening for some reason.  I'll post both below.  The program that
sends the test message finds the receiver ok, and SendMessage returns
0, but the receving program never calls its copydata handler.  Any
thoughts?  Discalimer:  I haven't done windows in years, so am kind of
clueless about it now, but based on what I've seen around google, this
seems ok.  Never actually saw an example of someone recieveing
messages though... only sending.

BTW - the try/except thing around UnregisterClass is catching an
invalid handle error for hinst.  Not sure where that's coming from,
but it still seems to unregister the class... so I'm happy for now...
at least until I figure out my other issue.  Any thougts on this error
are welcome too.

**code**
# Recieving prog

import sys
import win32gui
import win32api
import win32con


class gsWindow:
    def __init__(self):
        message_map = {
            win32con.WM_DESTROY: self.OnDestroy,
            win32con.WM_COPYDATA: self.OnCopyData,
            }
        
        wc = win32gui.WNDCLASS()
        wc.hIcon =  win32gui.LoadIcon(0, win32con.IDI_APPLICATION)
        wc.hCursor = win32gui.LoadCursor(0, win32con.IDC_ARROW)
        wc.hbrBackground = win32con.COLOR_WINDOW
        wc.lpszClassName = "QServer"
        wc.lpfnWndProc = message_map
        self.hinst = wc.hInstance = win32api.GetModuleHandle(None)
        self.cAtom = win32gui.RegisterClass(wc)
        print 'hinst: %s' % self.hinst
        self.hwnd = win32gui.CreateWindowEx(
            win32con.WS_EX_APPWINDOW,
            self.cAtom,
            "QuoteServer App",
            win32con.WS_OVERLAPPED | win32con.WS_SYSMENU,
            win32con.CW_USEDEFAULT, 0,
            win32con.CW_USEDEFAULT, 0,
            0, 0, self.hinst, None)
        
        win32gui.ShowWindow(self.hwnd, win32con.SW_SHOWDEFAULT)
        win32gui.UpdateWindow(self.hwnd)

    def OnCopyData(self, hwnd, msg, wparam, lparam):
        print 'copydata(%s, %s, %s, %s)' % (hwnd, msg, wparam, lparam)

    def OnDestroy(self, hwnd, msg, wparam, lparam):     
        win32gui.DestroyWindow(self.hwnd)
        try:    win32gui.UnregisterClass(self.cAtom, self.hinst)
        except: pass
        win32gui.PostQuitMessage(0)    

def main():
    w = gsWindow()
    win32gui.PumpMessages()


main()

******

# Sending prog

import struct
import win32con
import win32gui

def main():
    wnd = win32gui.FindWindow("QuoteServer", None)
    print wnd
    result = []
    buff = struct.pack('11s', "XXXXX: YYYY")
    print win32gui.SendMessage(wnd, win32con.WM_COPYDATA, 0, buff)

    return

main()


From keith1377 at hotmail.com  Sun Nov  7 04:58:50 2004
From: keith1377 at hotmail.com (keith)
Date: 7 Nov 2004 01:58:50 -0800
Subject: EVIL FBI SADISTS should be KIDNAPPED and TORTURED for 3 YRS
Message-ID: <34b3545c.0411070158.6532e02@posting.google.com>

Someone emailed and requested me to post it on Usenet newsgroups. 

Sadistic FBI agents should be tortured the way how FBI sadists and
perverts tortured this poor guy (non-muslim) for three years and
continue to torture him even after he left america tracking him with
implanted transponder chips and other methods.

FBI is an evil organization and those FBI sadists and perverts deserve
to be kidnapped and their eyes gouged, noses and ears chopped off,
forced to eat their own feces and drink their own piss and extra hot
red chilli powder poured into their eyes, make them cry and scream in
pain and continue the torture mercilessly for three yearss to do
justice to this poor guy. FBI sadists and perverts deserve every bit
of torture these animals meted out to this poor chap.

Evil FBI organization deserves 10000 Tim McVeighs and 10000 Osamas who
should have gone after the vertical edgar hoover building instead of
the horizontal pentagon or the fed building in oklahoma city. Half the
worlds evil resides in edgar hoover building in Washington DC.

Email I got:

*************************************************************************************************
If you are a US Govt "PROGRAMMED SLAVE and MORON"  OBSESSED with tin
foils, aluminium foils, schizo meds etc I KINDLY REQUEST YOU to IGNORE
the rest of this column and move on to the next post in the news
group.

Undercover FBI agents will attack me, ridicule me and discredit me
with fictitious userids in response to this post and I request all
readers to completely IGNORE those MANIPULATIVE, LYING FBI PERVERTS,
SADISTS and THUGS.

Email this column to all your friends, family members, coworkers and
if you are done, then just send it to every email id in USA and
OVERSEAS you can find on usenet. That will DRIVE the FBI SADISTS and
PERVERTS ABSOLUTELY CRAZY. We the POWERLESS should UNITE and MENTALLY
TORTURE the INFINITELY POWERFUL FBI SADISTS in every way possible. FBI
sadists HATE PUBLICITY and EXPOSURE and hence please do whatever you
can asap.

IMAGINE a MILLION EMAILS containing this story going around the world
and VISUALIZE how much it will DRIVE these FBI daughterfuckers CRAZY.
Come on, we the POWERLESS can do it.

To the rest of the LOW IQ MORONS who attacked and suggested I take
schizo meds and cover myself with tin foils and aluminum foils:

I already KINDLY REQUESTED YOU US Govt "PROGRAMMED SLAVES AND MORONS" 
to IGNORE the rest of the post in the VERY FIRST PARAGRAPH. Are you
THAT FUCKING DUMB you cannot comprehend SIMPLE ENGLISH ?

FBI SADISTS could possibly have installed a transponder chip in my
body like Ethan did to Nyah in Mission Impossible 2. If any of you are
KNOWLEDGEABLE about how to find transponders implanted using any
methods including X-Rays, please post some relevant information here
and HELP ME. It would be greatly appreciated.

Undercover FBI SADIST J NIcklebaker listed in this column was able to
figure out PRECISELY, the day I left home even though I am 8500 miles
away from US borders and he could have done it ONLY by TRACKING ME
with an implanted transponder chip in my body.

10/10/04        J NIcklebaker (Undercover FBI agent monitoring my
websurfing activities) posted anonymously using Newsguy Usenet Service
Provider in alt.liberalminded newsgroup and THREATENED ME.

http://groups.google.co.in/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=8boim0p7tpeo9p991segp7o7bd4h7ov32s%404ax.com&rnum=4&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26q%3DNicklebaker%26meta%3D

You can educate yourself more about the EVIL FBI SADISTS and PERVERTED
motherfuckers by reading these websites.

www.datafilter.com/mc

www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5637

www.4verichip.com/index.html

PERVERTED FBI agents SEXUALLY ABUSED, RAPED and TORTURED ME for THREE
YEARS  which is 10000 times worse than the SEXUAL ABUSE of prisoners
by Lyndie England though I am NEITHER an iraqi NOR a muslim.

If the PERVERTED FBI agents can watch me real time live attending
natures call and taking shower and other private moments in my rest
room, bed room, living room and kitchen and HUMILIATE, DEHUMANIZE and
SEXUALLY ABUSE me FOR THREE YEARS ILLEGALLY and AMUSE THEMSELVES, then
the FBI SADISTS and SEX PERVERTS deserve to be ruthlessly BEHEADED and
more.

Remember, SADISTIC FBI DID NOT FOLLOW THE RULES, so NOBODY in the
world has to follow the rules and the FBI agents SHOULD NOT have ANY
IMMUNITY and are GAME for ANYBODY and EVERYBODY. It is as simple as
that.

You can SELL this FBI NOC LIST and MAKE MILLIONS like Tom Cruise (I
know it is a CIA NOC LIST in MI) did in Mission Impossible.

Please SAVE this post on your hard disks or email account and also
bookmark it because the FBI SADISTS and PERVERTS are gonna force the
websites to remove this posting for good. I ADDED a few more
undercover FBI agents to the NOC LIST and also a few more facts about
FBI.

I request all you HACKERS on usenet to HACK these undercover FBI
agents IP addresses and trace their REAL IDENTITIES and post the info
here.

I posted this on 10/26/04 just a few days ago and used
keithm757 at yahoo.com and keithm757 at volcanomail.com to receive emails
from newsreaders but the SADISTIC FBI "FORCED" both "yahoo" and
"volcanomail" to CHANGE THE PASSWORDS and CLOSE my email accounts by
the morning of 10/27/04.

So if you are interested in helping me, please post your responses
(anonymously if possible) on the web itself instead of emailing me.

Somebody on the usenet suggested that I file a complaint with the
District Attorney about FBI HARASSMENT and MENTAL TORTURE but an
attorney by the name James Eidson (404-763-3401) with a RATING of "AV"
on www.martindale.com website ADVISED me NOT TO file a complaint with
US Attorneys office for reasons unknown to me.

http://www.martindale.com/xp/Martindale/Lawyer_Locator/Search_Lawyer_Locator/search_result.xml?PG=0&STYPE=N&LNAME=Eidson&FNAME=James&FN=&CN=&CTY=&STS=11&CRY=1&LSCH=

I am NOT a conspiracy theorist and everything I mentioned here
actually happened to me and are ABSOLUTE FACTS. Even the psychiatrist
REALIZED that all these things I mentioned are FOR REAL and ADVISED ME
to leave US.

To all of the 95% low IQ morons on usenet who accused me of schizo
paranoia and looking for attention and asked me why I was cross
posting to irrelevant newsgroups: Here is my answer.

1)  I WANT ALL OF YOU to FOCUS on the FBI SADISM, PERVERSION, SEXUAL
ABUSE and their BLATANT violation of human rights of an ordinary US
citizen.

2) I want all of you to STAND UP and ask the EVIL, PERVERTED and
SADISTIC FBI why they have to install video devices and watch me in my
rest room, bedroom, living room and kitchen and PSYCHO-ANALYSE me 24X7
for three years and TORTURE, TERRORIZE, HUMILIATE and DEHUMANIZE me.

3) I am posting to this to all active newsgroups to EXPOSE the
"INSTITUTIONALIZED FBI SADISM, PERVERSION and their SEXUAL ABUSE of
ordinary US citizens.

4) FBI SADISTS, PERVERTS and TERRORISTS are LAUGHING their asses off
reading you clowns' comments in response to my post on usenet because
all you 95% "PROGRAMMED SLAVES"  BEHAVED exactly the way the FBI
SADISTS "PROGRAMMED" your minds.

5) There are very few intelligent guys who responded to my post and
one of them is "bookwyrm" who figured why I was posting this to all
active newsgroups and another by anonymous name "assassians"  and
another by the name "Anatid" who tried to really help me.

http://groups.google.co.in/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=c54f0abe.0410100848.a515cf7%40posting.google.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26q%3DFBI%2BSADISM%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dalt.security.alarms

http://groups.google.co.in/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=415af813%40news.bnb-lp.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26q%3DFBI%2BSADISM%2Bbookwyrm%26meta%3D

SADISTIC and PERVERTED FBI has beeen MENTALLTY TORTURING, TERRORIZING
and SEXUALLY ABUSING me and BLATANTLY violating my civil rights
non-stop for three years.

Please forward and distribute this to as many senators, congressmen,
journalists, editors, civil rights attorneys, civil rights activists,
investigative reporters, radio talk show hosts,  managers, co-workers,
family and friends and all Americans concerned with civil liberties.

I am not a muslim, I don't have even a single muslim friend, I am not
a member of any religious organization, I am not a drug smuggler, I do
not belong to any crime mafia, I did not kill anybody, I am not a spy
and I never ever worked for any government and not even "remotely
connected" to any government agency whatsoever, I do not have any
prior criminal record, I am a US citizen and have been living in US
for a little more than 15 yrs and I graduated with a masters degree in
computers from a US university more than a decade ago. I am even
willing to take "ANY NO.OF POLYGRAPH TESTS" to prove whatever I said
is true and a fact, about my background.

FBI has been MENTALLY TORTURING me with 24X7 surveillance for the last
three years inside and outside my apartment with video surveillance
devices and motion sensors around my apartment, my phone has been
tapped, my web surfing is being monitored all the time for the last
three years, my emails are being monitored, gps vehicle tracking
devices and voice amplification devices have been placed in my car and
undercover FBI agents have followed me to restaurants, grocery stores,
malls, movie theatres, banks and even barber shops etc and forced me
to live like an animal and a virtual prisoner for three years. FBI has
interfered in my personal life for no reason and jeopardized my job
opportunities. FBI is obsessed with me and has ruined, destroyed and
wrecked my life for the last three years and destroyed my physical and
mental health.

The SADISTIC FBI agents are NOT charging me, NOT letting me find a
job, NOT letting me have a normal life, NOT letting me have even an
IOTA of PRIVACY and mentally TORTURING and TERRORIZING me with 24X7
surveillance, making 2000 UNSOLICITED phone calls to my unlisted
phone#s, entering my apartment ILLEGALLY and STEALING personal
belongings when I am not home, watching me real time live with video
surveillance devices installed in my bedroom, living room, kitchen and
DISGUSTINGLY even in my rest room and humiliating and dehumanizing me
and BLATANTLY violating my civil rights and constitutional right to
privacy and ABUSING the "DRACONIAN" PATRIOT ACT.

The PERVERTED FBI "ILLEGALLY" installed tens of audio and video
surveillance devices in my apartment, watching me NAKED, REAL TIME
LIVE 24X7 even in my rest room taking shower, psychoanalyzing each and
every move, each and every word I said, each and every second of my
life, each and every blink of my eyes and each and every comment I
posted on the web.

Is there a LIMIT to FBI Sadism and Perversion ??
 
I spoke to at least 200 attorneys in both Michigan and Georgia for
legal help but only about two or three attorneys were willing to help
me but asked me to show physical proof of either gps or video
surveillance devices. I did a lot of research and found a couple of
private investigators (who were ex-FBI agents) more importantly who
are knowledgeable about the latest "counter surveillance technologies"
 but they also DECLINED to help me on ONE PRETEXT or the OTHER even
though I was willing to pay for their services.
 
I told these two very HIGHLY QUALIFIED and KNOWLEDGEABLE private
investigators Niles (Eagle services 866-691-7985) and another PI,
Charles Middlestadt (404-252-5322) of ISC Worldwide Inc in the Atlanta
area who are capable of finding the gps vehicle tracking devices in my
car, that I am NOT A MUSLIM and they have NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT ME
and even offered them to go through my attorney and help me but still
THEY DECLINED to help me OUT OF FEAR that I might be a muslim.

Another Private Investigator by the name John Weeks (800-398-2775 or
770-220-1912) of Investigative Solutions www.invsol.com in Atlanta
told me that it would be IMPOSSIBLE to find out these video, audio and
gps surveillance devices if the GOVERNMENT (FBI) is doing it. I even
went to their office personally and spoke with the founder of
www.invsol.com Mr. Harold Copus whose picture is shown on the website
and Mr John Weeks.
 
And eventually I was forced to spend a $1000 as fees out of sheer
desperation knowing fully well that the Private Investigator I hired
has at best AVERAGE counter surveillance skills to sweep my car for
gps vehicle tracking devices and he did a LOUSY JOB and found nothing,
as I expected.

Some attorneys I consulted told me in very CLEAR TERMS that FBI agents
LIE, MANIPULATE, CHEAT and are VERY UNETHICAL in their MEANS and
METHODS. The attorneys also told me that in order for me to file a
civil lawsuit against the FBI, I have to PROVE the existence of
surveillance devices and also the MENTAL TORTURE, the SEXUAL ABUSE and
TERRORISM which will be quite a tall order for me to do without the
help of willing attorneys and helpful private investigators and EVEN
THEN the FBI sadists would have removed all those surveillance devices
by the time the private investigators came to sweep my apartment for
those devices after a couple of days since the FBI is listening to
each and every goddamn word that came out of my mouth whether it be in
my apartment or when I was speaking to these PI's and attorneys from
pay phones or cell phones.

You can investigate these undercover FBI agents yourself and find out
the truth. Remember, some times vehicles are registered in parents or
spouses names and also FBI uses fictitious front companies to employ
their undercover agents.

If any of you think, all these things are my paranoid delusions, I
CHALLENGE you to send an email to undercover FBI agent Frank Spodek
(sfrank9 at aol.com) OR call Kathleen Sue Taylor OR Maddelina Wahl OR
Mediha Krijestorac or Janet Lorna Brown or the other FBI agents I
listed at their phone numbers and confirm it with those FBI PERVERTED
SADISTS themselves.

Undercover FBI agents who followed me (partial list)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

313-354-7380         Internal unlisted FBI# in Detroit office from
which FBI agents called
and harassed me at home in 2001.  

BOGEY 27 (MI)     Registered to Maddelina C Wahl,  28087 Hickory Dr,
Farmington.Hills MI 38331, ph: 248-324-1527, Caucasian Female, black
car, Charter One bank, 3:00 pm, 12/20/03

This undercover FBI agent who followed me was a 30 yr old Caucasian
Female to Charter One bank on W.12 Mile Road, Farmington Hills, MI in
veh plate # BOGEY 27, ph:248-324-1527

PPL 587  (MI)     Registered to Kathleen Sue Taylor, African American
female, 29390 Bermuda Ln,Southfield, MI 48034, ph: 248-356-1946.

This undercover FBI agent who followed me was a 27yr old African
American female in MI veh plate# PPL 587 in July 2002  in a CVS
Pharmacy on W.12 Mile Rd, Southfield,  MI

XRA 155 (MI)     Registered to Mediha Krijestorac, Black car, 30408
Shiawasee Rd, Farmington MI 48336, ph:248-477-9161,  White Male,
Restaurant, 9:00pm, 12/12/03

This undercover FBI agent who followed me was a 20-22 yr old Caucasian
Male in veh plate # XRA 155 to a restaurant on Grand River Ave in
Farmington Hills,  MI at 9:00 pm on 12/12/03.

UFX 210 (MI)     Registered to Kevin Miller, White SUV,  5871 Seneca
St, Detroit, 48213, July 2002, 313-571-1095 #disconnected.

This undercover FBI agent followed me in July 2002 at around 10:00 pm
on Northwestern highway in bloomfield hills, MI.

5915CR   (MI)    Registered to Kenneth Allen, Red pickup truck, 18440
Alta Vista Dr, Southfield MI 48075 in Dec 2002.
 
This FBI undercover agent followed me in a red pickup truck in an
apartment complex was a 27-33 yr old Caucasian male in veh plate# 5915
CR in Dec 2002.

0978 JD  (MI)   Registered to Janet Lorna Brown, White Chevy, 20978
Delaware St, Southfield MI 48034 in 2002, ph# 248-350-2599

This FBI agent followed me in a white chevy once on Telegraph road on
3/14/02 and on a different occasion on 8 Mile Rd on 4/4/02 when I went
for an oil change.

8CK U33 (MI)    Registered to Doris Evelyn Person, 3611 S.Annabelle
St, Detroit 48217, 313-388-5186

The African American female undercover FBI agent who followed me in MI
veh plate# 8CK U33 was about 20 yrs old and might be a daughter of the
female owner of this car and this happened in early Fall of 2002.

073 D1U (MI)    Registered to Scott Alan Smith, 7536 Gary St, Westland
MI 48185

This 25 yr old caucasian male undercover FBI agent about 25 yrs old
followed me near my apartment in the fall of 2002. phone# 734-261-1587
in fall of 2002 (Disconnected)

LQE 620 (MI)    SUV, Registered to Samuel Pilato, 40460 Cove ct,
Plymouth, MI 40460
                       Ph#  734-420-0521, 3/14/02 11:30AM

This caucasian undercover FBI agent about 35yrs old followed me to a
library in the spring of 2002 on Telegraph Rd, Southfield, MI

EBAY      Ebay Id: SpodekModek, sfrank9 at aol.com --> email Id of Frank
Spodek - Undercover FBI Agent who monitored my Websurfing activities.

You can do a quick investigative test by emailing to sfrank9 at aol.com
and asking Frank if he is an undercover FBI agent and I am absolutely
positive he WONT respond and DENY he is an FBI agent because then it
will be a LIE. With this test you can conclude Frank Spodek is indeed
an undercover FBI agent.

EBAY            Ebay Id: cbsan,  cidneybetz at aol.com, email Id of
Cidney Betz - Undercover FBI agent who monitored my websurfing
activities in 2002.

Possible old phone numbers of Cidney Betz: 407-370-3043 or
352-291-2112 in the year 2002.

351 FTK (GA)    Maroon Car, 7/28/04, 6:00 pm, 20ish Caucasian Male and
Female, Metro Atlanta

131 YBP (GA)    35 yr old Caucasian Male, Silver colored car, 7/22/04,
10:45 pm, Hotel, Metro Atlanta

APZ 7647 (GA)   35 yr old Caucasian Male, Truck, 5/25/04, 3:00pm,
Ridgeview Hospital, Metro Atlanta

YUU 243 (GA)    Pickup truck, Caucasian male, 8/25/04, 4:40pm,
Holcrombe Bridge Rd, Metro Altanta

AQG 2185 (GA)   27 yr old Caucasian Female, Red Cherokee, 5/21/04, 11
AM, Pep Boys, Cobb Parkway, Metro Atlanta

WPS 578 (GA)    SUV, One Caucasian Male and one female, 3/8/04,
8:30pm, Apartment Complex

Coipel               770-577-0526 (5/2/04, 5:29pm), 4337 Lodgeview pl,
Douglasville, GA
                        30315. undercover FBI agent in metro Altanta
area.

Ronnie Hill         678-755-2034 in June 2004 -  Possibly an FBI agent

Please allow three years plus or minus to the ages of the undercover
FBI agents I mentioned here.

2/29/04        Undercover FBI agent with a fictitious name "Agent
Johnson" and IP address 81.132.210.89 said on internet that they are
using me as a training target and have got a bet on as to when I'll do
something really stupid and also they are taking bets on what it will
be in alt.astrology Usenet newsgroup on 2/29/04. This FBI agent from
Michigan field office might have posted it anonymously and hence the
IP address might be a fake one. Url for Agent Johnson's post follows.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=c1u06b%24780%241%40titan.btinternet.com&rnum=19
                                
3/21/04        Undercover FBI agent by some fictitious internet name
"THOR" and email Id: funk_a_del_ic2000 at yahoo.com and IP address
24.94.125.55 in the Washington DC area monitored my web surfing
activities and posted on rec.sport.cricket Usenet news group.

10/10/04        J NIcklebaker (Undercover FBI agent monitoring my
websurfing activities) posted anonymously using Newsguy Usenet Service
Provider in alt.liberalminded newsgroup and THREATENED ME.

http://groups.google.co.in/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=8boim0p7tpeo9p991segp7o7bd4h7ov32s%404ax.com&rnum=4&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26q%3DNicklebaker%26meta%3D

10/6/04        Leonard (Undercover FBI agent monitoring my websurfing
activities) with real IP address 24.209.79.66 (This IP address can be
hacked) posted in rec.audio.car newsgroup

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=263696fd.0410060414.319fd404%40posting.google.com

10/15/04      Els (Undercover FBI agent "Els" monitoring my websurfing
activities) with probably fake IP address 82.169.229.173 posted in
alt.test newsgroup

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=416fff7f%240%2444105%245fc3050%40dreader2.news.tiscali.nl&output=gplain

I am absolutely confident all the above mentioned people are
undercover FBI agents GUARANTEED. You can investigate them yourself
and find out the truth.

I request all you HACKERS on usenet to HACK these undercover FBI
agents' IP addresses and trace their real REAL IDENTITIES and post the
info here.

FBI who is supposed to catch terrorists are WASTING humongous amount
of tax payers money to ruin, wreck and destroy ordinary peoples lives
and are MORE INTERESTED and spent three years to tell me how SMART and
INFINITELY POWERFUL they are compared to me.

FBI has even been eavesdropping, monitoring and recording my
conversations with attorneys from pay phones when I was looking to
hire an attorney to get help with this FBIs harassment,
dehumanization, humiliation and mental torture.

FBI agents have been entering my apartment regularly and torturing me
by doing whatever they want because they know I am taking medication
that puts me to sleep and I won't wake up until the next morning until
the drug effect goes away.

FBI has forced Google or used some technology at their disposal to
cancel some of my comments from getting posted on INTERNET newsgroups
misc.legal, trial.misc.legal from a library in Farmington Hills, MI
and denied and VIOLATED my right to FREEDOM OF SPEECH in 11/03 or
12/03.

I moved in with another person (who advertised on a website for a room
mate) on 5/24/04 and I went out in his car on the night of 5/25/04 and
the next morning 5/26/04, at 9:30am the SADISTIC FBI called me and
made this phone# 678-560-1322 and the caller name "LOOKING FOR YOU"
appear on my caller id to tell me, "Oh we were LOOKING for you last
night, we did not know where you were because you went out in your
room mates car". The sadistic and perverted FBI "ILLEGALLY" installed
gps vehicle tracking devices in my room mates car the next day to
TRACK ME, even though my room mate has nothing to do with me and we
were COMPLETE STRANGERS until the previous day.

The same day on 5/26/04 evening, I went out in my car and came back
around 7:45 pm, parked my car in the parking lot and on the way I said
"nice car" to my neighbor who was cleaning his car, to which he
replied "thanks". Within a few minutes at 8:44 pm, the SADISTIC FBI
called and made phone# 770-690-8489 with caller name "NEIGHBOR
OUTREACH" appear on my caller id to tell me, "Oh we have seen and
heard what you said to your neighbor in the parking lot". The FBI was
able to see and hear my conversation because they installed VIDEO and
AUDIO surveillance devices around my apartment.

When I went to Best Buy in Feb 2002 to buy a cell phone, two caucasian
FBI agents (possibly husband and wife) followed me into the store and
observed me from a very close range and sent me a marketing fax for
cell phones to my UNLISTED phone# THAT SAME EVENING to tell me that
the SADISTIC FBI were WATCHING ME even in retail stores.

SADISTIC FBI agents even PUNCTURED my room mates car tire and made it
unusable and useless in June 2004 because of some casual NON-RELIGIOUS
comments he made the previous day in our apartment. You might think
this is crazy stuff, but I know it for a FACT that FBI SADISTIC
MOTHERFUCKERS punctured my room mate's car tire INTENTIONALLY  for the
casual comments he made the previous day.

FBI agents have terrorized me by calling my current unlisted phone#
atleast 200 times in a month and a half in July and August 2004,
intentionally asking for Roberto Fernandez (last name changed),
knowing fully well that nobody by the name Roberto Fernandez lived in
my apartment.

I called undercover FBI agent, Kathleen Sue Taylor on 4/1/04 and told
her I do not want to receive any HARASSING UNSOLICITED phone calls
from the FBI and from next day onwards, the FBI had made my unlisted
phone# appear on caller id of ordinary american people multiple # of
times, where the owners of those phone#s listed below got upset and
called me and left abusive messages in my answering machine.

The owners of these phone numbers listed below called and asked me why
I was calling them repeatedly, even though I DON'T KNOW who they are
and I NEVER called them even once.
   703-580-8992         4/2/04     Dale City, VA
   540-309-1226         4/3/04     Roanoke VA
   434-525-1448         4/3/04     Lynchburg, VA
   757-404-1076         4/4/04     Harry Folsom left me an abusive
message
   703-820-6695         4/4/04     DC Suburb, VA 
   770-966-5236         4/4/04     Cooper P D, Woman left me an
abusive message
   757-483-0583         4/7/04     Norfolk, VA
   540-463-7459         4/7/04     Lexington VA
   770-253-6297         4/8/04     Hammond Stinson
   703-541-0950         4/9/04     DC Suburb, VA

FBI pretended to be me and made all these phone calls themselves from
the FBI head office in Washington DC to those ordinary Americans and
made my unlisted phone# appear on their phone caller ids, as if I am
calling them.

Please speak to, ADVISE and ENCOURAGE these people above to file
lawsuits against the US government and FBI for violating their privacy
and for phone harassment.

(If you are RICH, you can use a PRIVATE EYE to get the PHONE CALL
LISTS of these numbers above for the first 15 days of April 2004 and
find a COMMON PHONE# among the lists on the SPECIFIC DAYS mentioned
above to zero in on the unlisted phone#)

FBI agents have destroyed my livelihood by assasinating my character
with potential employers by making anonymous calls to them when I sent
resumes since FBI is privy to all the email addresses and phone
numbers of the recruiters and potential employers. I do NOT think this
is an EXCEPTION and imagine how many ordinary Americans have been
suffering this "FBI SADISM for years" without knowing it.

Once a Caucasian male FBI agent in a Comcast van threatened to ram
into my car from behind and came within half an inch of hitting me
from behind even though there was no traffic altercation between us
and there is no traffica at all on a city street in Southfield
(Detroit metro area) in Feb 2002.

Two FBI agents once shouted at me and abused me verbally in a Sports
Authority store parking lot approximately around Feb 2002 in Livonia,
MI.

FBI ILLEGALLY stole passwords of all my email and internet accounts
with the help of bugs installed on my computer.

FBI agents have followed me even when I went to see a doctor. There
was one Caucasian FBI agent in a white truck with GA license plate APZ
7647 on 5/24/04, waiting for me in a truck in Ridgeview hospital
parking lot listening to the conversation I was having with the
doctor, using voice amplification devices.

I am currently living in a two bedroom apartment  sharing it with
another person and the FBI sadists made anonymous calls to the
apartment management office with fictitious complaints and tried to
get me evicted from the apartment in July 2004.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home in May
2004, stole a "yellow highlighter" and after I moved to a different
Atlanta suburbs a month later entered my apartment again when I was
not home and placed the "yellow highlighter" on the carpet in the
middle of my bedroom by the time I came back from watching Fahrenheit
9/11 movie on 6/27/04. The FBI knew that I went to watch Fahrenheit
9/11 movie on 6/27/04 because they were watching me looking for
directions and movie times on the internet and also with the help of
gps vehicle tracking devices in my car.

I spoke to an attorney from a pay phone on 6/24/04 and during the
conversation I asked the attorney if we can get a court order to force
the Internet Service Provider to reveal if my internet web surfing is
being monitored by the FBI and lo and behold my internet account
MYSTERIOUSLY DISAPPEARED from the ISP computers on 6/25/04. On inquiry
my ISP told me somebody called and cancelled my internet account the
previous day, which I never did.

My room mate goes to work around 6 AM and on the night of 7/23/04 I
pasted a 8.5 X 11 page note on the inside of the apartment entrance
door for my room mate to wake me up when he leaves so I can bolt the
hotel lock from inside and go back to sleep. My room mate woke me up
like I requested and I bolted the hotel lock from inside of my
apartment and went back to sleep at 6 AM on the morning of 7/24/04.
The sadistic FBI agents STILL ENTERED my second floor apartment while
I was asleep between 6:00 AM and 10:00 AM on 7/24/04 and REMOVED the
8.5X11 inch page pasted note on the inside of entrance door and LEFT
IT on the ENTERTAINMENT CENTER in the living room just to TORTURE ME
mentally and TERRORIZE me &#8220;We entered your apartment even when
you locked the hotel lock bolt and did this, but what can you do
?&#8221;

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment on the night of 8/1/04 when
I was asleep and stole prepaid calling card pin numbers from my
trouser pockets. One of the prepaid calling cards in my trouser pocket
was called "I Conexion" and the FBI next day called me on 8/2/04 and
made the number 770-242-8775 with caller name "Internet Conexion"
appear on my caller id to TERRORIZE me, that they entered my apartment
the previous night and stole the prepaid calling numbers from my
trouser pocket. The phone# above is NOT an FBI# but some other
company.

To protect myself from these SADISTIC FBI agents entering into my
apartment and stealing things when I am asleep, I locked my bedroom
door from the inside and put a small heavy box and a 19 inch TV on top
of the box against the bed room door on the night of 8/7/04 so if the
FBI agents try to open my bedroom door, the TV will fall off the box
at the slightest movement of the door, make a big sound and wake me
up. On the morning of 8/8/04 around 9:00 AM I woke up to a giant
thudding sound of the TV falling on the floor from the box and FBI
agents speeding away by the time I realized what happened. FBI agents
entered my apartment and opened my locked bedroom and pushed the door
at 9:00 AM so hard, they pushed the box a good two feet away from the
door. The FBI SADISTS are even willing to break my 19 inch TV to
TORTURE and TERRORIZE me.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY CHANGED three passwords (even though I used
Kinkos to keep my PASSWORDS PRIVATE) of my three email ids that I was
using to send this document to investigative reporters between 8/26/04
and 8/28/04 to "PREVENT ME" from EXPOSING their SADISM, PERVERSION,
TERRORISM, SEXUAL ABUSE and MENTAL TORTURE, by either ILLEGALLY
installing key logging software on kinkos computers or by some other
ILLEGAL MEANS unknown to me. So I created brand new email ids and sent
this document and god knows when the SADISTIC FBI will change the
passwords of my NEW email ids.

SADISTIC FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment while I was taking
SHOWER around 1:00pm and removed a shaving set scissors from the tote
bag pocket in my bedroom and placed it on the iron board in my
bedroom. FBI was able to execute this operation WHILE I WAS TAKING
SHOWER because they were watching me taking shower "real time live"
with video devices installed in my "bathroom".

To escape this FBI sadism, I went and slept in an acquaintance's
apartment in the first week of September 2004 and the SADISTIC FBI
agents still came and entered that apartment, installed video
surveillance devices in the acquaintance's apartment and drew a curvy
line with a knife on the black colored apartment door of the
acquaintance to TERRORIZE me.

Sadistic FBI agents "reacted" to EACH and EVERY word that came out of
my mouth for the last three years by making 2000 UNSOLICITED HARASSING
phone calls at my unlisted private phone numbers. I know about all
those no call list websites but FBI PERVERS and SADISTS  just don't
care.

To all of you who are gonna advise me to wear tinfoil or take drugs
for schizophrenic paranoia, the SADISTIC FBI wants all of you to think
exactly that way so they can CONTINUE to carry on their PERVERSE
SADISM on ordinary american citizens and MISDIRECT and PROGRAM all of
the 290 mil american brains to treat the EVIL, SADISTIC, PERVERTED and
DICTATORIAL FBI TERRORISTS like Gods.

By now, you should have figured out the gist of what and how the FBI
SADISTS and PERVERTS are TORTURING, TERRORIZING and SEXUALLY ABUSING
me with their INFINITE POWER. You can read the rest of FBI SADISM
below if you have time.

*************************************************************************************

I rented a car on 7/14/04, bought a cell phone and stayed in a hotel
that night and by next morning 7/15/04, the FBI has figured out where
I was staying and wire tapped my cell phone and tracked me by placing 
gps vehicle tracking devices even in the rental car.

FBI agents ILLGEALLY entered my apartment when I was not home on
7/16/04 and LOCKED the bathroom door from inside, by the time I came
back in the evening.
FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home between
7/15/04 and 7/18/04 and logged on to my computer and REMOVED a stock
list from my Yahoo account.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home on
7/18/04 in the morning and turned the Air Conditioner "ON"
intentionally by the time I came back to TORTURE me.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment on 7/18/04 when I was not
home and placed a razor blade and a nickel (which they STOLE from my
apartment in Marietta in May 2004) and put it in a plastic bag to
TAUNT ME  to say WHAT CAN YOU DO ?
 
FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment in the early hours of
7/22/04 (while I was still sleeping in bed) and opened a tote bag I
kept next to the pillow and unzipped a small bag (zip which I closed
the previous night) inside, just to  TERRORIZE ME as if to say, we can
and will do anything to you and you can't do anything to us because we
FBI are GODS.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home on
7/22/04 during the day time and placed the TV remote this time hanging
on the edge of the bed to TERRORIZE me that they entered my apartment.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment sometimes when I was not
home, pretending to be Wall Street Journal delivery personnel and
delivered sometimes MUTIPLE copies of the Journal on the same day and
also sometimes delivered multiple chinese restaurant take out menus to
avoid the neighbors noticing and suspecting them.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home in the
evening on 7/24/04 and again opened the tote bag and unzipped a small
bag which is inside the tote bag and also STOLE a one time use Kodak
camera from my bedroom which I bought on 7/23/04 in Wal Mart.

FBI agents have REGULARLY entered my apartment ILLEGALLY with laptops
when I was not home and copied information from my computer and floppy
disks and messed them up.

Sadistic FBI agents called me at least 30 times repeatedly in the
space of an hour and a half between 7:00 and 8:30 pm on 7/27/04 and
asked for Roberto Fernandez knowing fully well that nobody by that
name lived in my apartment and infact said "You are so funny" and made
WEIRD SOUNDS like aye, uye, ick, ihe etc while watching me real time
live all the time with the video surveillance devices installed in the
ceiling of my bedroom when I answered the phone.
 
FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment while I was asleep on 8/2/04
night even though the hotel lock was  bolted from inside, and placed
the tv remote face down on the end table of my bedroom, folded a
prepaid calling card in my trouser pocket and formed a crease on the
card, removed a library map from the file folder (which was inside a
tote bag) and placed it outside the file folder and unzipped the back
pocket of the tote bag half way down and left it there to torture me.

FBI agents have been alerting the security departments of WalMart,
Best Buy, JC Penney stores etc with fictitious complaints when I went
there for shopping, so the security cameras in those stores are
constantly focused on me and watching me while I was in those stores.

I rented a car on 8/5/04 and stayed in a hotel to get some privacy and
the sadistic FBI agents still tracked me down that night and left the
rental car doors unlocked by next morning on 8/6/04.

I changed the car rented the previous day on 8/6/04 and traveled a
couple of hours on a highway, took an exit, parked my car in a strip
mall parking lot and spent about 20 minutes in a retail store and by
the time I got back to the car, FBI agents followed me and put two
quarters on a plastic bag containing donuts in the back seat of the
car just to taunt and terrorize me they are still following me even
when I rented a car and drove out of the city.

FBI agents STOLE a pilot pen pack (which I bought from CVS Pharmacy on
8/8/04) from my car on the night of 8/8/04 and entered my apartment on
8/9/04 when I was not home from 11 AM - 12 noon and placed the pilot
pen pack under a chair on the carpet in the living room to torture me.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment on 8/10/04 between 1:00pm
and 1:15 pm (just 15 min) when I went to Publix and turned the TV "On"
in my bedroom by the time I came back to mentally torture me.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment even when the hotel lock was
bolted from inside in the early hours of 8/16/04 while I was asleep
and removed the middle row donuts in a 12 pack krispy kreme donut box
in the refrigerator and placed them in the empty left row and placed
the concord grape jelly bottle horizontally in the refrigerator and
unplugged the tv cable from the cable outlet in my bedroom to TORTURE
me that they are still entering my apartment anytime they want at
their will.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment while I was asleep in the
early hours of 8/20/04 even when I put a coffee  table against the
apartment entrance door and a small heavy box and a 19in TV against my
bedroom door from the inside and searched the locked tote bag and
unzipped the back pocket of the tote bag half way down and left it
there to TERRORIZE ME that they are still entering my apartment no
matter what precautions I take.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment on 8/22/04 around 7:30pm
while I was taking a nap and turned the Air Conditioner "ON" to TAUNT
me that they were entering my apartment EVEN WHEN I WAS still in my
apartment.

FBI agents stole a Gillette disposable razor on the night of 8/25/04
from my duffel bag and placed it between the drivers seat and driver
side door near the trunk opening lever of my car.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY opened the rental car I rented, in a hotel
premises on the night of 8/27/04 and removed the cup holder and placed
it infront of the parking brake of the car to HARASS ME that they are
still following me even when I rented a car and stayed in a hotel.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY even tapped MetroPCS cell phone numbers
instantaneously as soon as I bought them on the same day.
 
SADISTIC FBI agents AMUSED themselves by turning my bedroom table lamp
in my bedroom, ON and OFF by using remote control devices, sometimes
while I was browsing the web.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered the hotel rooms even when locked from
inside where I stayed in August and September and installed video
surveillance devices and moved things around from the tote bag&#8217;s
zipped side pocket into the tote bag to TERRORIZE me that they will
INVADE my privacy and MENTALLY TORTURE me even when I slept in hotel
rooms.

Sometimes when I spoke to my roommate in non-English language, the
psycho-analysis OBSESSED SADISTIC FBI agents called me on the phone
immediately and said "komo-isthaaaa" in a SARCASTIC way and asked for
Roberto Fernandez knowing fully well that nobody by that name lived in
my apartment.


From someone at microsoft.com  Sun Nov 28 17:36:34 2004
From: someone at microsoft.com (Jive)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 22:36:34 GMT
Subject: A lock that times out but doesn't poll
References: <slrncq5vvl.61m.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<kJqpd.5108720$ic1.478957@news.easynews.com>
	<uis7sxu95.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<Gr8qd.5826881$6p.937672@news.easynews.com>
	<cocmon$k3c$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <Spsqd.3779600$yk.580269@news.easynews.com>


"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:cocmon$k3c$1 at utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net...
> Python, of course, is unsuitable for many hard realtime systems,
> and if you're using Windows you are probably on the wrong platform
> in the first place.

Well, there is that.  The platform I'm using is a realtime operating system,
but it has a Windoze lookalike
API for OS functions like threads, semaphores, critical sections, events,
and whatnot.

[OT]
 I don't draw any distinction between "soft" and "hard" realtime. I've never
seen definitions for
those terms that I thought  were useful.  If some operations must be
performed within a certain time
window, to me that's realtime, neither hard, soft, smooth, lumpy, or just
right.  A realtime operating
system has guaranteed latency. Depending on the application, it does not
necessarily have
to be fast.  I have an application that runs fine on a realtime OS, but
fails eventually under MS Windows
running on a processor that's 3x as fast.
[/OT]

> The bar for putting things in the main distribution should be
> very, very high.

Agreed.  IMHO the bar was not set high enough for the current threading
module.

> One of the conditions for doing that should
> probably be that the code is fairly widely used and widely
> required.

Why?  If the existing code could be better, why not improve it?

>
> Why not post it to an appropriate "recipe" page in the fledgling
> Agile Control Forum site instead?  (http://www.engcorp.com/acf)
> That way others who *do* work in the machine control field will
> have an early chance to try out your code, experiment, maybe
> even improve it, fix bugs,

Oh, there will be no bugs.

> and basically do some of the work that
> *should* be done before anything gets into the main Python distro...
>

I will give it a look.  I had some spare time last year when I volunteered
the first
time.  I don't have spare time now, and probably will not have before May at
the earliest..
If someone would like to take over the code, I would be happy to contribute
it and give
as much help as I can.

Jive





From umdehoon at ux101.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp  Thu Nov 18 07:32:08 2004
From: umdehoon at ux101.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp (umdehoon)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:32:08 +0900
Subject: PyOS_InputHook enhancement proposal
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.61.0411182120391.13859@ux101.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>


PyOS_InputHook is a pointer to a function that is called periodically (ten 
times per second) while Python is idle, for example, when waiting for a 
user command. Python C extension modules can set this pointer to a hook
function defined in the extension module. For example, _tkinter.c makes 
use of PyOS_InputHook to get messages delivered to its widgets.

A problem arises when two or more extension modules want to set 
PyOS_InputHook. For example, the scientific plotting package pygist needs 
PyOS_InputHook to get messages delivered to its graphics windows, and may 
therefore conflict with the Python GUI IDLE, which uses Tkinter. Chaining 
won't work, as it will fail when an extension module wants to remove its 
hook function.

My suggestion is therefore to replace PyOS_InputHook by two functions 
PyOS_AddInputHook and PyOS_RemoveInputHook, and let Python keep track of 
which hooks are installed. This way, an extension module can add a hook 
function without having to worry about other extension modules trying 
to use the same hook.

Any comments? Would I need to submit a PEP for this proposal?

--Michiel, U Tokyo.


From ndbecker2 at verizon.net  Fri Nov 19 14:18:58 2004
From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal D. Becker)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:18:58 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <cnlgv2$vc$1@sea.gmane.org>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

> 
> My guess is Microsoft hopes to discourage Visual Basic knock-offs.  Claim
> 2 clearly seems to restrict the scope to BASIC.
> 
> Seems pretty slimy.
> 

Doesn't Python (along with probably every other language ever invented)
display prior art here?



From gitte at wange.dk  Sun Nov 28 12:15:30 2004
From: gitte at wange.dk (Gitte Wange)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 18:15:30 +0100
Subject: Timer hangs when quitting app
Message-ID: <cod13s$2iel$1@news.cybercity.dk>

Hello,

I'm trying to create an application that needs a Timer() to do various
checks.
My class has a self.timer = Timer(900, self.sendDNSRequest)
The timer itself works fine but whenever I try to exit the application, it
simply hangs and I have to kill the proces using `kill pid`

I have tried uncommenting the timer stuff, and then the app works as
expected.

Is there anything I need to do to kill the timer?
I have tried to create a __del__(self) function in my app. It gets called
when I leave out the timer, but with the timer enabled, it never gets
called.

Any hint will be appreciated :-)

Greetings,
Gitte Wange


From oliver.schoenborn at utoronto.ca  Sat Nov 13 00:09:37 2004
From: oliver.schoenborn at utoronto.ca (HumbdyDum)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 00:09:37 -0500
Subject: problem with "setup.py bdist --formats=zip"
In-Reply-To: <cn406e$bcp$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
References: <cn2mhg$476$1@nrc-news.nrc.ca>
	<cn406e$bcp$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <yGgld.59250$km5.2395990@news20.bellglobal.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Humpdydum wrote:
> 
>> I would like to create a "binary" distribution for Windows, but in zip
>> format, since the installer requires root access. 
> 
> 
> Not sure what you mean here.  Windows doesn't have a "root" user,
> though it has "Administrator".  Is that what you meant?  

Yes.

 > I believe
> you'll find that the installer has an option to install for the
> current user only, so that you don't have to be an Administrator
> to do it.

Really? I've installed several (like Numeric etc) and looked but never 
seen that option, I must be blind. Actually, I remember clearly that 
they always say, after being started, something like "You don't have 
sufficient priviledge, you must be administrator". I'll take another 
look. Thanks,
Oliver


From dsa at unilestemg.br  Tue Nov 23 16:50:23 2004
From: dsa at unilestemg.br (Douglas Soares de Andrade)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 21:50:23 +0000
Subject: Python GTK import error
In-Reply-To: <b7420408.0411231408.38c2f03a@posting.google.com>
References: <b7420408.0411231408.38c2f03a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200411232150.23219.dsa@unilestemg.br>

Hi !

The error is that the system ins't finding this lib:

/usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0

Try to see if your system has it.

See ya !

Em Ter 23 Nov 2004 22:08, Qianqian Fang escreveu:
> hi
>
> I installed Fedora Core 2 in my desktop and it has been running
> flawlessly in the last few months until I upgraded some packages
> (gtk/gtk-devel/python) to the latest version via apt-get. Now, when I
> execute any system configuration gui program, i.e.
> /usr/bin/system-config-*, it raises an error message as follows:
>
> File
> "/usr/src/build/375621-i386/install/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/gtk-2.0
>/gtk/__init__.py", line 43, in ?
> ImportError: /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0: undefined symbol:
> atk_object_add_relationship
>
> (the top line may vary, but the last line is the same for all of them)
> and the script exits after the error.
>
> I don't know if anybody met this before, and how can I fix it?
> thank you very much!
>
> Qianqian

-- 
Douglas Soares de Andrade - UnilesteMG
Linux User: #237615
dsa em unilestemg.br



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Nov 17 22:29:50 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:29:50 -0800
Subject: Parallel processing
In-Reply-To: <51e59f27.0411171706.22a60438@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.6501.1100717187.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<51e59f27.0411171706.22a60438@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041117192812.F9B4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


jhujsak at neotopica.com (Jon) wrote:
> 
> Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.6501.1100717187.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> > There are various other reasons why Python is not as parallelizable as
> > you would think.  Among them is the semantics of scoping, and whether
> > there is shared or unshared scope among the processors/nodes.  If shared,
> > then any operation that could change scopes would need to be distributed
> > (ick), or if unshared, then you are basically looking at an
> > automatically distributed tuplespace (LINDA).  It gets even uglier with
> > certain kinds of generators.
> > 
> > Regardless of which one is the case, heavy modifications to Python would
> > necessarily need to be done in order to make them happen.
> > 
> > 
> >  - Josiah
> 
> Even considering the above caveats, one can still employ Python based
> interpretive layers such as pyMPI over quite solid parallel computing
> tools such as MPI. See http://pympi.sourceforge.net/.

Indeed.  I wrote the equivalent of pyMPI in the spring of 2002 for an
undergraduate senior project.  It was never a matter of "can
parallelization be done", it was a matter of "can loops be automatically
parallelized".


 - Josiah



From exarkun at divmod.com  Tue Nov  2 16:51:21 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 21:51:21 GMT
Subject: dynamic or on-the-fly color changing in curses?
In-Reply-To: <slrncofvrn.34f.fake@sewage.raw-sewage.fake>
Message-ID: <20041102215121.23443.195945597.divmod.quotient.339@ohm>

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 21:43:13 GMT, Matt Garman <fake at not-real.bogus> wrote:
>I'd like to write a class or module in python that allows me to do
> on-the-fly color changing in the curses module.
> 
> [snip - curses examples]
> 
> But when I do that, all strings show up as green.  My assumption
> here is that all strings are assigned to color_pair(1), and when
> those strings are drawn, they assume the most recent definition of
> color_pair(1).  In other words, it appears you can't "recycle" color
> pair definitions.
> 
> So my second thought was to just pre-define every possible
> combination, but, at least on Linux, I'm limited to 63 unique
> colors, whereas I can create more than 63 color combinations
> (foreground, background, and attribute combinations).
> 
> Am I strictly limited to using at most curses.COLOR_PAIRS colors on
> a per-application basis?

  There are only 64 combinations (8 of which render the text unreadable), so being limited to 63 doesn't seem like that big of a drawback to me.

  Am I missing something?

  Jp


From andres.baravalle at gmail.com  Mon Nov 15 07:49:09 2004
From: andres.baravalle at gmail.com (Andres Baravalle)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 04:49:09 -0800
Subject: help with source package including eggtrayicon
References: <45992f58.0411142022.323f5b58@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <45992f58.0411150449.6bdbb1de@posting.google.com>

I could go on, and now I have my working Makefile and I can compile
eggtrayicon, but I would like to include this compile in my setup.py,
if possible.

My Makefile is:
# Makefile for eggtrayicon

OBJECTS		= eggtrayiconmodule.so

# Compilation stuff
CC		= gcc
PYTHON_VERSION	= $(shell echo `python -c "import sys; print
sys.version[0:3]"`)
PYTHON_INCLUDE	= -I/usr/include/python$(PYTHON_VERSION) \
                  -I/usr/include/pygtk-2.0 \
	          $(shell pkg-config gtk+-2.0 --cflags) \
		  $(shell pkg-config libgnomeui-2.0 --cflags)
LIBS            = $(shell pkg-config gtk+-2.0 --libs) \
                  $(shell pkg-config libgnomeui-2.0 --libs)
CFLAGS		= -Wall -g -fomit-frame-pointer $(PYTHON_INCLUDE)

all:: $(OBJECTS)	

%.o : %.c
	$(CC) -fPIC $(CFLAGS) -c -o $@ $<
%.so : %.o
	$(CC) -shared $(LIBS) -Wl,-soname,$@ $< -o $@

Suggestions?

Thanks in advance.
   Andres


From nehalmistry at gmx.net  Tue Nov 23 16:31:17 2004
From: nehalmistry at gmx.net (Nehal)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 13:31:17 -0800
Subject: cgi.FieldStorage() is slow
In-Reply-To: <2c60a528.0411170547.2c68392@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.6402.1100584911.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2c60a528.0411170547.2c68392@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041123133117.00000d71@nehal>

On 17 Nov 2004 05:47:05 -0800
and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover) wrote:

> Nehal <nehalmistry at gmx.net> wrote:
> 
> > when uploading small files, you won't notice a difference, but
> > if you upload files larger than 2 megs, you can notice it.
> 
> Yep. Large file upload in cgi.py is slow. I don't immediately
> see a way to speed it up without re-architecting some of its
> internals.
> 
> In any case I dislike(*) the cgi module's interface too, so I
> rewrote the lot:
> 
>   http://www.doxdesk.com/software/py/form.html
> 
> This isn't drop-in compatible, and is getting a bit crusty (I'm
> expecting to rewrite most of it soon to be more
> objecty/threadable, and support WSGI), but in my experience it's
> considerably faster than cgi for very large files. (We were
> commonly using files in the 10-50MB range.)
> 
> (* - more then than now; cgi's interface has got slightly better
> since Python 1.5.2's time.)
> 
> -- 
> Andrew Clover

I have tested Andrew's 'form.py' module, and also upload cgi
scripts from other languages, i did some benchmarking, i tried
uploading a 6 meg file to localhost and writing to an output file
on apache 2.0.52 win32. here are the results (note: i checked the
error log to make sure all scripts were working and processing the
data as expected):

ruby: 2 sec
Andrew Clover's form.py: 2.5 sec
perl: 2.5 sec
tcl (3rd party module): 4.5 sec
python: 8 sec

of course in practice, most people won't be receiving data at 3
megs/sec, so you won't have to process data at such a speed.
nevertheless, it will put a greater load on the CPU, which may be
an issue for many servers.

it would not be a good idea to put Andrew's form.py in the
official python distribution and have 2 different modules for
processing CGI. either it would have to somehow merged into CGI
module, and keeping backward compatibility, or the existing CGI
module must be optimized; maybe the above benchmark data will
motivate someone to do so ;). until then, i'll stick to form.py
-- thx, Nehal


From phleum_nospam at chello.se  Sun Nov 14 06:58:02 2004
From: phleum_nospam at chello.se (Carl)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 12:58:02 +0100
Subject: Data structures for tree traversals?
Message-ID: <YbHld.982$3N5.859@amstwist00>

Dear friends,

What are the best options for implementing fast and efficient trees in
Python?

The typical trees that I'm thinking of are those used by the finance
industry to price different kinds of derivatives (ie forward simulation of
prices/rates in binominal/trinominal trees and backward induction to price
final claims). 

Intuitively, dictionaries seem to be ideal candidates for accessing objects
at nodes and traversing the tree. Am I right or are there better choices?
Are lists better? Has Numerical Python speed-efficient methods that are to
be preferred in comparison with lists ad dictionaries?

Carl



From f.geiger at vol.at  Tue Nov  9 13:52:58 2004
From: f.geiger at vol.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 19:52:58 +0100
Subject: Umlauts, encodings, sitecustomize.py
References: <cmfeqg$l73$1@newshispeed.ch>
	<mailman.6167.1100019195.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmr3i7$mfj$1@newshispeed.ch>

"Jeff Epler" <jepler at unpythonic.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.6167.1100019195.5135.python-list at python.org...

> You should note that chr(0x84) is *not* a-umlaut in iso-8859-1.  That's
chr(0xe4).  You may be using one of these Windows-specific encodings:
>     cp437.py:       0x0084: 0x00e4, # LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
>     cp775.py:       0x0084: 0x00e4, # LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
>     cp850.py:       0x0084: 0x00e4, # LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
>     cp852.py:       0x0084: 0x00e4, # LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
>     cp857.py:       0x0084: 0x00e4, # LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
>     cp861.py:       0x0084: 0x00e4, # LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
>     cp865.py:       0x0084: 0x00e4, # LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do mean I use one of these
accidentially? Or should I switch to one of these in my sitecutsomize.py?

I'm a bit confused. When I let Python print an ? (umlaut a) by simply
entering the 1-char string "?", it prints '\x84'. When I let a tiny script
print the umlauts, I get:

sys:1: DeprecationWarning: Non-ASCII character '\xe4' in file
D:\Project\SchAG\Programme.Python\test.py on line 1, but no encoding
declared;
 see http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0263.html for details
These are Umlauts: ??? and ???.
These are Umlauts: ??? and ???.
Press any key to exit...

There's the '\xe4' you are missing.


Thanks and kind regards
Franz GEIGER

P.S.: Do you know a site, where this whole matter is explained somehow?

P.P.S.: The script:

print "These are Umlauts: ??? and ???. "
s = "These are Umlauts: ??? and ???. "
print s
raw_input("Press any key to exit...")







From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  3 03:30:34 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 09:30:34 +0100
Subject: saved sys.path
References: <%Xmhd.29071$g4.544104@news2.nokia.com>
	<1gmkht7.1e1lg86qerk5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5765.1099319253.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8vudnfRCkdgHExrcRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5854.1099439761.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gmo48i.1t3yslw1e7px39N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Eric S. Johansson <esj at harvee.org> wrote:

> basis, I really believe that configuration information should be 
> externalized from the program as much as humanly possible.  So things

I agree.  But putting it in a scriptfile instead of a datafile is just
as good, IMHO -- just like, say, config info for my bash shell sessions
goes into a file .bashrc which is a script rather than being just a
datafile.  Most of what .bashrc does is setting environment variables,
but the extra flexibility of it being a script may still help.

Similarly, as I see things, config info for a big app (coded in Python,
or in whatever other language as long as it's got a Python accessible
interface) can be in a scriptfile instead of a datafile.  The scriptfile
starts up, adjusts environment info (sys.path foremost, but maybe other
stuff too), imports the app's main module, launches 'main(sys.argv)'
therein.  It _is_ externalized from the program, in my view -- it's a
configuration scriptfile.  It just works better, with Python, to have
the configuration scriptfile call the app's main, rather than doing it
the other way round as you would in, say, C (where the app's main starts
and then calls a configuration scriptfile).

I do like what you've posted, don't get me wrong -- I'm just pointing
out that our different preferences on app configuration architectures do
not descend from differences on the "externalized from the program"
philosophy!


Alex


From danperl at rogers.com  Fri Nov 19 15:32:20 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:32:20 -0500
Subject: Class Encapsulation Errors in Python 2.3.3
References: <47f7cc78.0411182007.1b77c2b1@posting.google.com>
	<nrudnceoVIIV5QDcRVn-hw@rogers.com>
	<47f7cc78.0411191005.7b793bf@posting.google.com>
	<10pskhnjt2met3f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <z_ydneo0T-HFxQPcRVn-ug@rogers.com>

I fully agree with Jeff and I will make a couple of other small points.

I saw you meant to use 'False' as a default value for the class-level 
attribute 'songs'.  'None' is the normal value for initializations like 
that.  It's a small point but it kind of stuck in my mind as being unusual.

If you still choose to use class-level attributes and to initialize them 
with default values, you have to keep in mind that you will encounter this 
kind of problem with all the initializations that are using complex types. 
That means lists like in the case of 'songs', but also strings like in the 
case of 'name' and 'artist'.  Jeff pointed out in an earlier posting that 
there are also other ways you could get into trouble like this and it should 
be made clear that this is true for all the complex types, not only lists.

Dan

"Jeff Shannon" <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message 
news:10pskhnjt2met3f at corp.supernews.com...
> Tim Henderson wrote:
>
>>Here is a partial implementation, i don't have the code with me but
>>this is how the songs list is made
>>
>>code:
>>-------------------------------------------
>>class Album:
>>    name = ''
>>    songs = []
>>    artist = ''
>>
>>    def __init__(self, name, artist):
>>        self.name = name
>>        self.artist = artist
>>-------------------------------------------
>>
>
> Yes, this gives you class-level attributes, shared by all instances of 
> Album.  In the case of name and artist, you're then creating 
> instance-level attributes ('self.name = name') which shadow the 
> class-level attribute.  But you never bind 'songs' on the instance, so 
> you're just modifying the class-level (shared) songs list.
>
>>after reading the code i came up with a possible solution:
>>
>>possible code:
>>-------------------------------------------
>>class Album:
>>    name = ''
>>    songs = False
>>    artist = ''
>>
>>    def __init__(self, name, artist):
>>        self.name = name
>>        self.artist = artist
>>        if songs == False:
>>            songs = []
>>------------------------------------------
>>
>
> That'll almost work -- within __init__(), you need to refer to songs as 
> self.songs (both times).  But why bother with creating the class-level 
> attributes?  If you just set them in __init__(), all will be fine.
>
> class Album:
>
>    def __init__(self, name, artist):
>
>        self.name = name
>        self.artist = artist
>        self.songs = []
>
> will have the same net effect as your code, for the vast majority of 
> common purposes.  (There are corner cases where having class-level 
> defaults is helpful, but I sincerely doubt that this is true for your 
> program.)
>
> Jeff Shannon
> Technician/Programmer
> Credit International
>
> 




From gregory.lielens at fft.be  Sun Nov 28 16:45:33 2004
From: gregory.lielens at fft.be (gregory lielens)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 22:45:33 +0100
Subject: subclassing extension type and assignment to __class__
In-Reply-To: <llcler3b.fsf@telus.net>
References: <41a87eb5$0$13482$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> <ekifcac8.fsf@telus.net>
	<41a912a8$0$25051$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> <llcler3b.fsf@telus.net>
Message-ID: <41aa46de$0$13468$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>


> Sorry for the confusion. This looks like a situation best handled with
> embedding rather than inheritance. The PClass and PClass2 wrapper classes
> can share whatever relationship _PClass and _PClass2 share.
> 
> class PClass:
>     def __init__(inst=None):
>         if inst is None:
>             inst = _PClass()
>         self._inst = inst
>     def override_method(self, ...):
>         self._inst.override_method(...)
>     def new_method(self, ...):
>         ...
> 
> class PClass2:
>         self._inst = _PClass2()
>     def troublesome_method(self):
>         base = PClass(self._inst.troublesome_method())
>         ...
>         return base

Yes I was affraid this would be the conclusion: embedding instead of 
inheritance...But this means that not only the method that need to be 
modified need to be rewritten in python, all the other ones also just to 
  delegate to the embedded instance...
This is not too practical, even if such writing can be more or less 
automatized...
For my purpose it seems that there was a big step backward between 
python 2.2 and 2.3, and I am surprised this has been mostly 
unnoticed...This problem should be common for many people trying to 
write mixed C/C++ / python classes. I found some reference on this in 
the list archive, a few people beeing anoyed by it, but the proposition 
to make the test about assignment to class less strict was not retained 
it seems...I plan to experiment a little  with the python C 
implementation to see what happen if I bypass this test...

> Alternatively you could provide a way to pass PClass back to the extension module
> for _PClass2.troublesome_method to use instead of _PClass when creating a return
> object. But the embedding approach seems more appropriate when _PClass is not to
> be used directly.

Yes but again this is not so practical, the purpose of the _PClass / 
PClass implementation was to make the bindings as light, and as easy to 
implement / extend as possible, and both the embedding and  the creation 
of PClass within _PClass2 methods defeat this purpose...

I think allowing assignment to class for native types should be done if 
possible, for example if the new class is a derived type (possibly using 
__slots__)... I saw a post on this by Guido, but the reason why it was 
not possible is not clear to me and the thread died without further 
explanations...Maybe my experiments will show me what happen, or someone 
more knowledgeable than me can explain why this is not possible?

Greg.


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Wed Nov 24 12:51:24 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 17:51:24 GMT
Subject: HTML stylesheet expander?
References: <8idd72-j1o.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<Xns95AB5E981A615duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<rsne72-jh7.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <Xns95ABB59BC64Bduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Roger Binns wrote:

>> If you are not using Windows, or you want portability, then you are
>> probably best doing this in Javascript.
> 
> How exactly would I do that?  There is no Javascript in Python and if
> I had a way of displaying HTML then this is a non-issue.
> 

What I meant was that you do the conversion once and then use the converted 
HTML in your program. Obviously if I misunderstood and the HTML is 
dynamically generated that won't be possible.


From http  Sun Nov  7 01:48:34 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 06 Nov 2004 22:48:34 -0800
Subject: PEP new assert idiom
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr7n62t0v.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <Lmjjd.2124$Zl2.96@trndny01>
Message-ID: <7xy8hep325.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> writes:
> Why do you need a statement for this?
> IMO, a plain function will do the trick:

I do write such functions sometimes, but using a statement is more
natural.  That's why the assert statement exists, for example.

Because of that naturalness, the temptation to misuse the assert
statement is very great, and I find myself doing it all the time
thinking I'll clean it up later.  So I think having a statement for
runtime checking would be in the correct spirit.


From bradtilley at gmail.com  Tue Nov  2 13:53:27 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:53:27 -0500
Subject: dicts & lists together
In-Reply-To: <TO6dneIm_NJRSxrcRVn-hQ@comcast.com>
References: <cm8kki$4fi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<TO6dneIm_NJRSxrcRVn-hQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <cm8l37$4fi$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Larry Bates wrote:
> Brad Tilley wrote:
> 
>> I have a dict that associates strings to numbers like this {'abc': 1, 
>> 'xyz':2, '123':3,...} I am then given a list of strings ['abc', 'xyz', 
>> '123',...] and asked to associate a number to each string in the list 
>> according to the string's value in the dict. I am at a loss as to how 
>> to do this, can someone show me where to start?
> 
> 
>  >>> xdict={'abc': 1, 'xyz':2, '123':3}
>  >>> xlist=['abc', 'xyz', '123']
>  >>> tlist=[xdict.get(v, None) for v in xlist]
>  >>> print tlist
> [1, 2, 3]
> 
> Larry Bates
> Syscon, Inc.

Thank you Larry, I don't understand it, but it works ;)


From moexu13 at gmail.com  Wed Nov  3 00:37:09 2004
From: moexu13 at gmail.com (M. Bitner)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 21:37:09 -0800
Subject: Should I learn Python?
In-Reply-To: <624a388a.0411021328.5ac41f4c@posting.google.com>
References: <624a388a.0411021328.5ac41f4c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <57c312d304110221374fe98867@mail.gmail.com>

On 2 Nov 2004 13:28:22 -0800, Sam <sam at three60.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I have been developing sites and cms's for the past few years using
> PHP and mysql. I've been interested in learning a new language and was
> considering Python. I have a pretty decent grasp of OOP concepts (i
> know, you're skeptical since I mentioned PHP). I don't have a formal
> programming background, just learning as I go.
> 
> So, with that being said, here are some dumb questions.
> 
> 1. What can I do with Python that I can't do with php?
> 
> 2. Do you use both PHP and Python in conjunction with each other?
> 
> 3. In what way could I utilize Python to compliment existing sites or
> apps built with PHP?
> 
> Thanks for any help.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 

Learning Python would be an excellent next step in your development.
Most programming textbooks recommend you learn at least one new
language a year. Python is a clean, well designed language and should
be straightforward (and fun) for you to learn.

But to answer your questions:
1.  PHP is a web scripting language and Python is a general purpose
scripting language. You can use PHP outside of a web environment but
that really isn't its strong point. You can use Python pretty much
anywhere.

2. No. Where I work we have one internal app written in PHP but are
moving towards developing exclusively in Python. We have thought about
potentially using PHP for the presentation layer and Python for the
business logic but haven't gotten that far yet.

3. Where do you need it? If PHP works for your site then Python may
not be a necessary addition.

HTH,
Melissa


From belred1 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 13 22:12:37 2004
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 03:12:37 GMT
Subject: map, LC, genexp
Message-ID: <F2Ald.94494$R05.50978@attbi_s53>

i thought that LC and genexp were supposed to be faster than map.  i also thought i read somewhere in this group that 
the slowest looping mechanism in 2.4 is 20% faster than the fastest looping mechanism in 2.3.  if i'm wrong about this, 
remembered wrong or did something wrong, please let me know.  here are some timeit tests i did on my machine.  notice 
that map is faster in both python versions and that LC24/LC23 is only a 5.5% speed improvement.

python 2.3

timeit "for i in map(str, xrange(100)): pass"
10000 loops, best of 3: 118 usec per loop

timeit "for i in [str(x) for x in xrange(100)]: pass"
1000 loops, best of 3: 200 usec per loop

python 2.4b1

timeit "for i in map(str, xrange(100)): pass"
10000 loops, best of 3: 144 usec per loop

timeit "for i in [str(x) for x in xrange(100)]: pass"
10000 loops, best of 3: 189 usec per loop

timeit "for i in (str(x) for x in xrange(100)): pass"
10000 loops, best of 3: 185 usec per loop


thanks,

bryan


From anthonybaxter at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 10:31:17 2004
From: anthonybaxter at gmail.com (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 02:31:17 +1100
Subject: asynchat and threading
In-Reply-To: <Ij1pd.19554$ld2.4796764@twister.nyc.rr.com>
References: <Ij1pd.19554$ld2.4796764@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <e69d3ed204112407315e8732b6@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:57:44 GMT, Rob Snyder <arkham at gmail.com> wrote:
> Greetings -
> 
> I've embarked on a small learning project, trying to get a better grasp of
> the asyncore and asynchat modules. The project involves building a simple
> instant messenger application for use on our LAN - nothing heavy duty, as
> 99% of my reason for doing this is just to learn.

I can only paraphrase what I said in a recent python-dev thread -
absolutely *no-one* should be starting new projects using asyncore and
asynchat. Use twisted, instead - it's cleaner, saner, has an active
development community, and is in all ways a better solution than the
asyncore approach.

asyncore based code causes bleeding from the eyes and brain leakage
through the ears.


From mefjr75 at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 29 05:28:47 2004
From: mefjr75 at hotmail.com (M.E.Farmer)
Date: 29 Nov 2004 02:28:47 -0800
Subject: Help on creating a HTML by python
References: <50d96c9b.0411281856.6c8d2ae9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <18282ecb.0411290228.7b4f88b4@posting.google.com>

evil_pizz at hotmail.com (sepgy) wrote in message 
> Can anyone help me to use a python to create an HTML photo gallery
> generator. When it's finished, it will be able find all the picture
> files (i.e. .jpg, .gif. .png files) in any given folder on the
> computer, automatically create smaller thumbnails for each image, and
> then generate a complete HTML file that displays a clickable image
> gallery. When viewed in a web browser, the HTML file will display the
> thumbnails in a neatly formatted table, and if you click on one of the
> thumbnails the full-size image will appear.

Hello, 
    You want to look at this:
         http://www.uselesspython.com/thumbnail.py
    I also did this very thing when i first started learning Python.
    Found it quite educational and learned much in the process.
    Here was my try at 'improving it':
         http://bellsouthpwp.net/m/e/mefjr75/python/Thumbz.py
    You can see my dumb newbie code , of course that was two years ago ;)
    There are others out there too try thumbnail.py in a Google search sometime ;) 
> Thanks
your welcome ...
HTH, 
   M.E.Farmer


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Nov  2 12:58:53 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 18:58:53 +0100
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>

>> Strong/weak typing is about how much you care of types at all - in php,
>> its perfectly legal to add strings to numbers - the string simply gets
>> converted to a number beforehand, that conversion yielding 0 when there
>> is nothing useful and numberlike can be extracted from the string. So
>> typing is weak, as it doesn't constrain the possible operations on
>> variables with certain values.
> 
> By this definition, Python is also weakly typed:
> 
>>>> 2.0 + 1
> 3.0

I'm not sure how things are implemented internally, but I'd still say my
definition is correct even for this example: The + operator can be viewed
as overloaded with the signature

(float, int) -> float

But its not for (string, int) - albeit * e.g. is. 

> The point here is that I consider C weakly typed because, with no error of
> any sort, it allows me to reinterpret a block of memory in as many ways as
> I like.
> A strongly typed language like Python does not allow this.  Even in my
> Python example above, we're not *reinterpreting* the block of memory
> representing 1 as a floating point value; we're *coerceing* the integer 1
> into the floating point value 1.0 (which probably means allocating a new
> float variable at the C level) before performing the addition.

This is definitely weak typing. 

The question remains if permanent coercions as php (and afaik perl) do can
also be considered weak typing, as you won't end up with an error for more
or less anything you do.

I say yes, but maybe thats a matter of taste.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From michael.bierenfeld at web.de  Fri Nov 26 05:07:48 2004
From: michael.bierenfeld at web.de (michael)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 02:07:48 -0800
Subject: SysLogHandler is drivin me nuts PEBCAC
References: <f11c8440.0411250122.c600af1@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6782.1101394046.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f11c8440.0411260207.555d2cc0@posting.google.com>

Vinay Sajip <vinay_sajip at red-dove.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.6782.1101394046.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> The config file appears incomplete - can you post the whole of it (if 
> it's not too big)? I would have expected to see lines like

Yep it was incomplete heres the complete config as it has to be

[loggers]
keys=root,syslog

[handlers]
keys=syslog,file,stdout

[logger_syslog]
qualname=syslog
level=INFO
handlers=syslog

[logger_root]
qualname=root
level=INFO
handlers=stdout

[handler_syslog]
class=handlers.SysLogHandler
level=ERROR
formatter=syslog
args=(('localhost', handlers.SYSLOG_UDP_PORT), handlers.SysLogHandler.LOG_USER)

[handler_stdout]
class=StreamHandler
level=INFO
formatter=stdout
args=(sys.stdout,)

[handler_file]
class=FileHandler
level=INFO
formatter=stdout
args=('python.log', 'w')

[formatters]
keys=syslog,stdout

[formatter_syslog]
format=%(module)s %(levelname)s %(message)s

[formatter_stdout]
format=%(module)s %(asctime)s %(levelname)s %(message)s

Thanks for the help

Michael


From canali at aliceposta.it  Thu Nov 18 02:45:48 2004
From: canali at aliceposta.it (linuxUser)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 23:45:48 -0800
Subject: (not so)useful scripts
Message-ID: <d91b0006.0411172345.788d6cad@posting.google.com>

http://www22.brinkster.com/canali


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 12 08:17:51 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 05:17:51 -0800
Subject: escape sequences in list comprehensions
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0411120517.488d16ca@posting.google.com>

Escape sequences don't seem to work in strings within list comprehensions:
>>> print ['%s\n' %i for i in [1,2,3]]
['1\n', '2\n', '3\n']

What am I missing?

Thank you.


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Nov  2 08:41:47 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 08:41:47 -0500
Subject: saved sys.path
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5765.1099319253.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <%Xmhd.29071$g4.544104@news2.nokia.com>	<1gmkht7.1e1lg86qerk5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5765.1099319253.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8vudnfRCkdgHExrcRVn-jA@powergate.ca>

Eric S. Johansson wrote:
> one of the things I've been bothered with using Python for larger 
> applications is path manipulation.  For example, how does one create the 
> search path necessary to find your own modules if you do not wish 
> pollute site-packages with your private code.
> 
> the path file looks like this might be a good solution in preference to 
> modifying sys.path in your code.  Are there any scope or limitation 
> rules for this path modifier?  Can this modification be made specific to 
> an application or is the new path visible to the entire world (which 
> reintroduces the namespace pollution problem).

Most questions relating to this which haven't already been answered
by Alex can be answered by a perusal of the site.py source.  It
makes good readin'...

Note that between PYTHONPATH and .pth files, possibly the addition
of a little sitecustomize.py file (see again site.py), and the
ability to modify sys.path in the __main__ module of the app as
Alex suggests, you can do pretty much anything you think is a good
thing to do.

-Peter


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Nov 13 17:45:44 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:45:44 -0500
Subject: Advice needed
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6333.1100377581.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6333.1100377581.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pewld.813$nj.345@lakeread01>

Eddie Parker wrote:

> God can make mistakes too -- look at Country music. :)
> 
No, no, no, you're supposed to *listen to* music :-)

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Wed Nov 17 05:46:18 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 02:46:18 -0800
Subject: arrays
In-Reply-To: <a2f50cd.0411170101.4c66e3ea@posting.google.com>
References: <a2f50cd.0411151042.45487164@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6387.1100545114.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<a2f50cd.0411170101.4c66e3ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cnfa5q$7eb$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Rahul Garg wrote:
> Hi.
> Thanks for the help. Its really simple and i shud have thought it
> myself.
> Some clarifications :
> 1. I will mostly be storing floating point numbers in 2 dimensional
> arrays which i will pass to a custom module written in C. The
> application is for scientific computing purposes.I just need python +
> wxPython for the GUI.
> 
> 2.I am not using Numarray because i dont expect to do many operations
> on the matrices in Python itself. Most of that stuff will be handled
> in my C module.
> The decision of not doing the matrix operations in Python is because
> most of the C code is already ready. Though it is written as
> standalone command line app currently , converting it into an
> extension module shudnt be much of a problem.

You still might want to use numarray or Numeric in this case. The memory 
representation of a numarray/Numeric array is the same as in C. You 
won't have to duplicate memory and waste time converting between a 
memory block of doubles and lists of lists of Python floats. Speaking 
from experience, I would say that numarray/Numeric greatly eases the 
burden of communicating arrays between Python and C even if one does not 
need to do anything complicated with the arrays in Python.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov  2 19:50:30 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 00:50:30 GMT
Subject: Problems with profiling results (hotshot or normal) : almost
	all are incorrect
References: <41881ba2$0$78738$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <41882aa4.1466900701@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 00:43:31 +0100, Irmen de Jong <irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl> wrote:

>Hello
>I haven't received any responses on my original posting,
>and it could very well be that it never made it to the newsgroup
>(because I can't find it back on my news server here).
>So I'm posting this again. Sorry if it *did* make it to
>the group.. Please consider trying my test-program that is given
>here and let me know how it works on your python installation.
>
>Thanks for any insight on this.
>
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\pywk\clp\irmen2.py", line 86, in ?
    import hotshot, hotshot.stats, wait
ImportError: No module named wait

Where does wait come from?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From brian at sweetapp.com  Thu Nov 11 05:55:14 2004
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:55:14 +0100
Subject: Status of BaseHTTPServer
In-Reply-To: <4e4a11f8.0411110023.52526404@posting.google.com>
References: <4e4a11f8.0411110023.52526404@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41934512.2060302@sweetapp.com>

Simon Wittber wrote:
> BaseHTTPServer uses the mimetools module, which is deprecated. 
> 
> Are the maintainers of modules that are in the standard library listed
> somewhere? Who could/should I send patches to?

Patches, bugs, etc. should be done through Sourceforge:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/python

Cheers,
Brian


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  4 05:11:30 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:11:30 +0100
Subject: pep 336:  Make None Callable
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com> <cmcarp$5u7$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.5897.1099544898.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gmq3sg.13vqunmdm9pcbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
   ...
> > It would be more sensible to promote the addition to builtins of a 
> > predefined null function -- one somewhat equivalent to 0, [], and {}.
> 
> Maybe, but I think it's worth asking -- what use is the traceback from
> the None object when it is called?  Does it help in QA of code?  Is

Yes: it wards against the reasonably common bug of forgetting a return
statement, for example --

def make_adder(addend):
    def adder(augend): return addend + augend

the programmer forgot a 'return adder' as the last line -- oops, no big
deal, it will be caught extremely soon, thanks to None not being
callable.

> there a common idiom that would be broken by a callable None?

None I can think of, but then, the same could be said of many possible
loosenings -- accepting, say, " 2 + '23' " and returning either '223' or
25 would break no common idioms, either... it would just make Python
less good at catching some common bugs.  Errors should not pass
silently...

"Null Object" is a great Design Pattern (not in the Gof4 book, but still
a classic, from a reasonably early PLOP), and I would love it if Python
embodied it, as it embodies so many other useful ones.  But we should
not overload None to play the role of Null, I think.  Rather, Null
should be another object, either built-in or in some module.  Besides
the equivalent of a 'def __call__(self, *a,**k): return self', it should
have many other "do-nothing" special methods -- including a __getattr__,
btw.  We should also have type(Null) is Null -- and Null should be
subclassable too, because there are a few design choices which, however
we make them in the Null class, may need tweaking in a user-coded
subclass (e.g., should str(Null) be 'Null' or ''?).

There are Null Object classes in the cookbook -- all the way from a
simple 'donuttincallable' to a full-fledged Null Object -- and that's
where I'm putting all of my considerations on the issue, but I'll be
glad to have them embodied in a PEP if needed.

But the Null should NOT be None, the DEFAULT return value of functions
without a return statement etc etc.  Explicit is better than implicit.


Alex


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Thu Nov 25 12:37:43 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 09:37:43 -0800
Subject: Use Python library from C++
In-Reply-To: <89cc6e1f.0411250914.24131f1b@posting.google.com>
References: <89cc6e1f.0411241939.61a19596@posting.google.com>
	<1101364143.006433.314340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<ukgpd.12554$Vy.6850@trndny06>
	<89cc6e1f.0411250914.24131f1b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <co5597$nl3$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Chang LI wrote:
> "Chris S." <chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu> wrote in message news:<ukgpd.12554$Vy.6850 at trndny06>...
> 
>>zhao wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Try boost.python and SWIG?
>>>(boost.sourceforge.net, swig.sourceforge.net)
>>>
>>>Both provide a interface between C/C++ and python
>>>if you want gui under python, you also can try wxpython or pygtk
>>
>>I thought SWIG ported C/C++ libraries to Perl, Python, Ruby, Tcl, etc? 
>>How would you use it to port Python into C/C++?
>>
> 
> 
> SWIG is for Python to use C++. I am searching for in reverse.

Elmer is the reverse of SWIG, and should be easier to use than using the 
Python C API itself. Elmer will handle the conversion of types between 
Python and C++ and will expose a nice API on the C++ side.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com  Tue Nov  9 12:27:14 2004
From: pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com (Pekka Niiranen)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 19:27:14 +0200
Subject: Concise idiom to initialize dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6165.1100018756.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <89D59C407D04D54AA82DC8BA312D430D10C61759@enyc11p32001.corpny.csfb.com>
	<mailman.6165.1100018756.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4190FDF2.7020601@wlanmail.com>

Hi,

You do not need to initialise dictionaries, if you
access them with idiom:

 >>> mydict = {"pekka":1}
 >>> mydict.get("pekka", "")
1
 >>> mydict.get("james", "")
''

-pekka-

Brian Quinlan wrote:
> Frohnhofer, James wrote:
> 
>> My initial problem was to initialize a bunch of dictionaries at the 
>> start of a
>> function.
>>
>> I did not want to do
>> def fn():
>>     a = {}
>>     b = {}
>>     c = {}
>>     . . .
>>     z = {}
>> simply because it was ugly and wasted screen space.
>>
>> First I tried:
>>
>>     for x in (a,b,c,d,e,f,g): x = {}
>>
>> which didn't work (but frankly I didn't really expect it to.)
>> Then I tried:
>>
>>     for x in ('a','b','c','d','e','f','g'): locals()[x]={}
>>
>> which did what I wanted, in the interpreter.  When I put it inside a 
>> function,
>> it doesn't seem to work.  If I print locals() from inside the 
>> function, I can
>> see them, and they appear to be fine, but the first time I try to 
>> access one
>> of them I get a "NameError: global name 'a' is not defined"
>>
>> Now obviously I could easily avoid this problem by just initializing each
>> dictionary, but is there something wrong about my understanding of 
>> locals,
>> that my function isn't behaving the way I expect?
> 
> 
> The locals dictionary should be considered read-only. Wouldn't having a 
> list of dictionaries be a better strategy?
> 
> Cheers,
> Brian


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Tue Nov  9 19:53:17 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 01:53:17 +0100
Subject: Packing list elements into tuples
References: <cmrcqq$rv4$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <1u0yu7b2dn58p$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Nickolay Kolev (2004-11-09 22:29 +0100)
> I have a list whose length is a multiple of 3. I want to get a list  of 
> tuples each of which has 3 consecutive elements from the original list, 
> thus packing the list into smaller packets. Like this:
> 
> l = [1,2,3,4,5,6]
> 
> tups = [(1,2,3), (4,5,6)]
> 
> or
> 
> l = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9]
> 
> tups = [(1,2,3), (4,5,6), (7,8,9)]

Fragment[1] from a general purpose partitioning utility:

def part(seq, slice):
    """ partition seq """
    return [seq[slice * index:slice * (index + 1)] 
            for index in range(len(seq) / slice + bool(len(seq) % slice))]

 
> if i can dictionaries it would be even better:
> 
> l = [1,2,3,4,5,6]
> 
> tups = [
> 	{'first':1,'second':2,'third':3},
> 	{'first':4,'second':5,'third':6}
> 	]

You're losing order and therfore you're attaching 'first', 'second'
and so on because you obviously need the original order. So don't use
a dictionary.


Thorsten

[1] Just for the record:
def part(seq, slice = None, modus = None):
    """
    partition seq
    syntax:
    part(seq, boolean_function, modus = 'bool')
        -> [[first_true_items], [first_false_item, remaining_items]]
    part('str', 'separator', modus = 'sep') or
    part('str', ['separators'], modus = 'sep')
    part(list, item, modus = 'sep')
    part(n, modus = 'set')
        -> len([all_possible_partitions_of_[0, 1, ..., n]])
    part(list, modus = 'set'
        -> [all_possible_partitions_of_list]
    part(seq, int, modus = 'size')
        -> [seq0, seq1, ..., seqn] - where len(seq(i)) = int
    part(seq, [n0, n1, ..., n(i)], modus = 'size'
        -> [seq0, seq1, ..., seq(i)] - where len(seq(i)) = n(i)
    """


From merman at snafu.de  Tue Nov  9 17:45:42 2004
From: merman at snafu.de (T. Kaufmann)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 23:45:42 +0100
Subject: MySQLdb installation
In-Reply-To: <-ji*zidzq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
References: <418f99db$0$175$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<418fba73$0$161$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<cmohqo$j1l$02$4@news.t-online.com>
	<418fcca7$0$165$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<-ji*zidzq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Message-ID: <4191472c$0$192$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Sion Arrowsmith wrote:
> T. Kaufmann <merman at snafu.de> wrote:
> 
>>Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>>
>>>Install the package mysql-devel.
>>
>>I can't find it!?
> 
> 
> "libraries and header files" on MySQL downloads.

Sorry - here is the right place:

http://linux.maruhn.com/sec/mysql-devel.html

o-o

Thomas


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 13:55:53 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:55:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmp6xu.zmiw6gs3250sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5890.1099529745.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmpyz8.11h86a71kjmdttN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5916.1099587353.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdntd$788$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5920.1099589545.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdrhf$d2c$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041104T193143-960@post.gmane.org>

Diez B. Roggisch <deetsNOSPAM <at> web.de> writes:
> 
> > Does this make my concern any clearer?  What I'm asking for is an example
> > like yours above that not only shows that you can treat, say, the bits of
> > a float as an integer, but also shows why this would be useful.
> 
> The question is  not so much if there is an actual usecase, but more that if
> things _can_ be done, they inevitably _will_ be done.

No, the (my) question really was for an actual usecase. ;)  People do a lot of
things in programming languages, not all of them particularly good or
appropriate.  The recent example of intrinsics.replace to change the behavior of
Python's str class strikes me as one such example. =)  I would be much more
convinced that weak-typing is useful if someone could actually use it for me. ;)

> I can remeber abusing 32bit pointers in 68k processors by
> altering the most-significant byte. It took advantage of the fact that the
> old 68k had only 24 address registers, thus ignoring the msbyte. That
> allowed to pass 2 parameters in one pointer. And was for a short period of
> time considered a clever trick....

I'm not sure I see how this is taking advantage of weak-typing, unless I
misunderstand what you were doing here.  Did you ever interpret your
two-parameter structure as anything other than either a set of bits or the two
parameters?  You didn't ever treat the set of bits as a float, for example,
right?  You *could* have, of course, but I'm guessing your interpretation of the
bits was consistent...

My point here is that I think in most code, even when people do a bunch of
bit-twiddling, they have a single underlying structure in mind, and therefore
you see them treat the bits as one of two things: (1) The sequence of bits, i.e.
the untyped memory block, or (2) the intended structure.  IMHO, an example of
taking advantage of weak-typing would be a case where you treat the bits as
three different things: the sequence of bits, and two (mutually exclusive)
intended structures.

I guess I'm drawing a thin line here, but I see a difference between using the
untyped (bit-based) representation of a structure and actually converting a
structure between two different types.

Steve



From dthierbach at gmx.de  Sun Nov 28 09:15:22 2004
From: dthierbach at gmx.de (Dirk Thierbach)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 15:15:22 +0100
Subject: protocols, inheritance and polymorphism
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>
	<Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<YWKod.137814$HA.44609@attbi_s01>
	<donn-F6A9D8.11153623112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<tqadnT2kAIXJEj7cRVn-hA@rogers.com>
	<donn-F39B72.13183123112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<mqedndyH_YCYUT7cRVn-uQ@rogers.com>
	<donn-D778C1.17100223112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<786dnYZkrq-ieT7cRVn-tw@rogers.com> <1101273995.954137@yasure>
	<s4qdnUDCJoJ9vjncRVn-hA@rogers.com>
	<tyfhdnefhcf.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<41a6340f$0$307$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<tyfvfbsewc3.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch> <1101575782.366954@yasure>
Message-ID: <20041128141522.995.0.NOFFLE@ID-7776.user.dfncis.de>

Donn Cave <donn at drizzle.com> wrote:
> Quoth Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch>:

> Given a model for polymorphism that means smuggling an object
> around wrapped in some degree of mystery about its type, elegant
> and sound static typing does seem unlikely.  But C++ and its
> descendents have always been easy targets.  Would you happen to
> know something about how Objective CAML's OO system approaches this?

In several ways: First, by using parametric polymorphism (not defined
as in this thread above, but by allowing "type variables" (type parameters)
which are applied as necessary, both in every expression, and in
object types. Second, by using so-called "row types", i.e. types
for incomplete records (in OCaml, they are denoted by the trailing dots
in a type like < get_x : int; set_x : int -> 'a; .. > ).

Together, they allow you to statically type most of the usual applications
of inheritance, virtual methods, etc. There used to be an somewhat
more contrived example in the OCaml manual with a subject/observer
pattern, virtual methods, and both abstract and concrete classes,
but I think they removed that some time ago.

As for

>> Specifically, dynamic polymorphism is impossible without dynamic
>> typing.

I haven't heard the term "dynamic typing" in this context, and I think
it's a bit unfortunate, because it's not "typing" in the usual
sense. If Jacek just means virtual methods, as in

>> In C++ you turn your classes into dynamically typed ones with the
>> "virtual" keyword, which introduces a vtable and run-time type
>> identification (RTTI).

that's easy to do in OCaml, and it also works in the type classes
of Haskell. The problem Jacek describes here:

>> As soon as you want to use a method present in the subclass but not
>> in the superclass, it is up to you to faff around with dynamic_cast
>> and checking of the resulting pointer;

is solved by keeping the parametric type "uninstantiated" as long
as possible, and instantiate it with the concrete type only when
it is clear that you really need the method present in the subclass.
Or, you handle this with the row types.

It does not work in every case one can think of right from the start
(you have to be able to statically guarantee that you have really the
subclass to work with at this point of your code, and not the
superclass), so you might to rewrite your code a bit to make it
work. Maybe it's easier to see if we do concrete examples.

> I see in the on-line documentation this paragraph:
> 
>   Be aware that subtyping and inheritance are not related. [...]

> I'm thinking that this might be more or less typical of academic
> ideas about OO typing, and it seems conceptually appealing.  I
> don't know the details though.

The "inheritance is not subtyping"-motto is somewhat orthogonal to
this issue. It comes originally from a paper by Benjamin Pierce, with
IIRC the same title. If you think this concept through, it really helps
to sort out some of the confusion that comes with the "usual" OOL's
like Java and C++.

- Dirk


From wab104 at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 30 08:17:13 2004
From: wab104 at hotmail.com (wab104)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 05:17:13 -0800
Subject: dynamical linking problem
Message-ID: <ccb4ac74.0411300517.50b20a59@posting.google.com>

I compiled Python on one Linux box and copied it to another Linux box.
 This causes an import problem:

>>> import urllib
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/edl3/wb104/analysis/python2.2/lib/python2.2/urllib.py", line
26, in ?
    import socket
  File "/edl3/wb104/analysis/python2.2/lib/python2.2/socket.py", line
41, in ?
    from _socket import *
ImportError: libssl.so.0.9.7: cannot open shared object file: No such
file or directory

On the first Linux box I have:
  /usr/lib/libssl.so -> /usr/lib/libssl.so.0.9.7
  /usr/lib/libssl.so.0.9.7

On the second Linux box I have:
  /usr/lib/libssl.so -> /lib/lib/libssl.o.0.9.7a
  /lib/lib/libssl.o.0.9.7a

If I create an extra symbolic link on the second Linux box with name
libssl.so.0.9.7 (and also one for libcrypto, which has a similar
problem) then all is fine.

But the problem is that I want to ship a binary distribution to third
parties who might not be so confident to do this (and might think I've
shipped a duff product).

Why is the Linux linker looking for the specific libssl.so.0.9.7
rather than the generic libssl.so?  (Obviously on the first Linux box
the generic is pointing to the specific, but that's hardly a good
excuse.)  Is there any (sensible) way to convince it to do otherwise? 
This problem makes creating binary distributions difficult.  (What are
the odds that people have exactly the same version of every system
library?)


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Fri Nov 19 16:04:43 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:04:43 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <1100898065.354777.219400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<cnlgv2$vc$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6616.1100893198.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3073pnF2rf1v9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1100898065.354777.219400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cnln6a$1pg$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

mustafademirhan at gmail.com wrote:

> But it is approved :(

As I see, it's patent application, so it is not approved yet.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/ | http://www.zgodowie.org/


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Nov  8 20:42:41 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 19:42:41 -0600
Subject: Mixing Python And Bash
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.08.20.17.18.863725@tompurl.com>
References: <pan.2004.11.08.20.17.18.863725@tompurl.com>
Message-ID: <20041109014240.GB15990@unpythonic.net>

The bash manpage says:
    set [--abefhkmnptuvxBCHP] [-o option] [arg ...]
[...]
              -e      Exit  immediately if a simple command (see SHELL GRAMMAR
                      above) exits with a non-zero status.  The shell does not
                      exit  if  the  command that fails is part of an until or
                      while loop, part of an if statement, part of a && or  ??
                      list, or if the command?s return value is being inverted
                      via !.  A trap on ERR, if set, is  executed  before  the
                      shell exits.

So place "set -e" at the top of your script, and it will exit as soon as
the first "simple command" exits with a nonzero exit status.

Jeff
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From cjw at sympatico.ca  Thu Nov 11 09:16:30 2004
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:16:30 -0500
Subject: distutils and Debian
In-Reply-To: <slrncp5cf6.v8.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
References: <4192AD69.5040707@sympatico.ca>
	<slrncp5cf6.v8.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <WuKkd.29692$Z7.931724@news20.bellglobal.com>

Sam Holden wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:08:09 -0500, Colin J. Williams <cjw at sympatico.ca> wrote:
> 
>>The distutils download page has:
>>--------------------------------------------------------
>>Current stable release
>>
>>The current stable release is Distutils 1.0.2; you can download it as:
>>
>>     * Distutils-1.0.2.tar.gz (source distribution) (233k)
>>     * Distutils-1.0.2.zip (source distribution) (274k)
>>     * Distutils-1.0.2.win32.exe (Windows installer) (187k)
>>
>>If you are running Python version 1.6 or later, you do not need to 
>>download the Distutils: they're included with Python. However, if you 
>>have a Distutils more recent than your Python, you might want to install 
>>it: see the Distutils README.txt file. Version 1.0.2 is identical to the 
>>version included in Python 2.1.
>>---------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>With Debian, it seems that distutils is not included for
>>Python 2.2 or 2.3.
>>
>>Should this be reported as a Debian bug?
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> It's in the python2.x-dev packages.
> 
> Debian often split large things up into smaller packages, distutils
> isn't needed by the basic debian user who only installs debian
> packages after all. 
> 
> "apt-cache search distutils" finds it easily enough for those who do
> want it.
> 
Thanks for pointing this out, but I have checked and Python2.3.4-dev is 
installed.

Colin W.


From alban.minassian at wanadoo.fr  Fri Nov  5 02:15:00 2004
From: alban.minassian at wanadoo.fr (alban.minassian at wanadoo.fr)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 23:15:00 -0800
Subject: SystemError: com_backpatch: offset too large
References: <781f5e76.0411032335.57bf5ae4@posting.google.com>
	<1gmqfmp.amq50rbaii20N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <781f5e76.0411042315.4d05d451@posting.google.com>

Thank, but same problem (now, i have com_backpatch: offset too large
at line 4567 !)
Alban


From rowen at cesmail.net  Thu Nov 18 15:07:12 2004
From: rowen at cesmail.net (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 12:07:12 -0800
Subject: [ANN] RO package updated
Message-ID: <rowen-832343.12071218112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

RO utility package 2004-11-18 has been released.

RO is a package of python utilities I wrote to support a telescope 
control interface. RO has a strong emphasis on the Tkinter GUI library, 
networking, astronomy and cross-platform support (my telescope user 
interface is regularly used on unix, MacOS X and Windows).

For more information about the package, see: 
<http://www.astro.washington.edu/rowen/ROPython.html>

The most visible changes are in RO.Wdg.FTPLogWdg and overhaul of the 
underlying ftp package (RO.Comm.GetFile->RO.Comm.FTPGet) to avoid a bug 
in urllib. In addition, there are a few refinements to 
RO.Wdg.Checkbutton and RO.Wdg.Label.

For detailed release notes see: 
<http://www.astro.washington.edu/rowen/ROVersionHistory.html>

-- Russell


From contact at alanlittle.org  Wed Nov 10 15:40:34 2004
From: contact at alanlittle.org (Alan Little)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 12:40:34 -0800
Subject: Beginner's scoping question
Message-ID: <4ef0f3a4.0411101240.21132006@posting.google.com>

a=1
b=[]
class C():
   def __init__(self):
      a=2
      b.append(3)

c = C()

print b
# [3]

# but ...
print a
# 1

???


From gsakkis at eden.rutgers.edu  Tue Nov  9 20:31:35 2004
From: gsakkis at eden.rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 20:31:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: MethodType in python 2.2 
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411092019550.25667@er3.rutgers.edu>

Hi all,

I wonder why types.MethodType fails under python 2.2:

Python 2.2.2 (#1, Jun 25 2003, 18:52:43)
[GCC 3.3 (SuSE Linux)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import types
>>> class X:
...        def f(self,attr): return getattr(self,attr)
...        g = types.MethodType(f,None)
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in X
TypeError: cannot create 'instance method' instances


The same code under 2.4 (and I believe 2.3) runs fine.

Python 2.4b1 (#1, Oct 25 2004, 17:07:48)
[GCC 3.3 (SuSE Linux)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import types
>>> class X:
...        def f(self,attr): return getattr(self,attr)
...        g = types.MethodType(f,None)
...
>>> X().f("f")
<bound method X.f of <__main__.X instance at 0x2a97f23e18>>
>>> X().f("g")
<bound method X.f of <__main__.X instance at 0x2a97f23e60>>


Is it possible to get around this in 2.2 ? Thanks in advance,

George



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Mon Nov  8 14:47:32 2004
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 19:47:32 GMT
Subject: PEP new assert idiom
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org><1gmurvv.1meude125h1zrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com><mailman.6027.1099792216.5135.python-list@python.org><1gmvgit.vzj5g4hv9dsrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com><1099815505.15924.9.camel@localhost.localdomain><loom.20041107T094958-923@post.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6087.1099857826.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <o3Qjd.16$4U1.8@trndny05>

[F?bio Mendes]
> I think my PEP is getting more and more nonsensical... I give up!

LOL.   The PEP is the same. It is it's author's world view that has changed ;-)


Raymond







From eddie at kickingdragon.com  Sun Nov 14 03:27:47 2004
From: eddie at kickingdragon.com (Eddie Parker)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 01:27:47 -0700
Subject: .pyc files...
In-Reply-To: <1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <E1CTFkD-0005EW-00@galvatron.kickingdragon.com>

Hrmm, this is more a *NIX discussion, but I'm curious:

That could be problematic if you have too many .pyc files found - overflow
the command buffer, no?

Something like: "find . -name '*.pyc' | xargs -i rm -f {}", would solve
that, as xargs executes each encountered argument individually, I believe (I
think the -exec command does similar, in Stephen's original post).

Anyways - I've just ran into problems with overflows.. Granted, cygwin, not
a real *NIX. :)

</offtopic -- sorry, but I had to chime in. :)>
 
-e-

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+eddie=kickingdragon.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+eddie=kickingdragon.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
Simon John
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 1:17 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: .pyc files...

Stephen Waterbury wrote:

> > OK, stupid question, but it's been bothering me for ages.. J
> >
> > I love Python to bits, but .pyc files always litter my source tree,
and
> > they've always bothered me. ...

> One solution (on unices, at least):
>
> alias cleanpy="find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm {} ';'"
or with backticks:  rm -rf `find . -name '*.pyc'`

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 11/1/2004
 

---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 11/1/2004
 



From merkosh at hadiko.de  Sun Nov 28 10:47:35 2004
From: merkosh at hadiko.de (Uwe Mayer)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 16:47:35 +0100
Subject: files in non-blocking mode?
References: <cock5m$lq5$1@news2.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de> <uj1p72-cd7.ln1@valpo.de>
Message-ID: <cocrun$qqu$1@news2.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>

Sunday 28 November 2004 14:49 pm Mathias Waack wrote:

> Uwe Mayer wrote:
>> I want two python programs to communicate over stdIO channels. The
>> one executes the other via the popen3 function:
>> 
>> amc = Popen3("./amc/amc.py", True, 0)
>> line = stdin.readline()
>> amc.tochild.write(line)
>> amc.tochild.flush()
>> print amc.fromchild.readlines()
>> 
>> The problem is that although amc.tochild gets flushed the data
>> never reaches the client until the .tochild fd is closed. Is there
>> any way to put IO channels into non-blocking mode in python?
 
> How do you read the data in the client? Maybe you're using a line
> buffered read? Does your code work if the server includes a trailing
> CR and/or NL in the string before it calls the flush?

Yes, I used 

line = stdin.readline()

and made sure the sending client had a newline ("\n") char appended to the
text. Still, the receiving client's readline() function does not return.

Uwe 


From ark at acm.org  Mon Nov 29 12:35:52 2004
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:35:52 GMT
Subject: how to drop all thread ??
References: <coechh$amh$1@netnews.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <Y5Jqd.72061$7i4.9338@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

This reply is off topic but I couldn't resist:

The best way to get rid of thread is to adopt a kitten.

In fact, one of my cats is named Snobol because she is such a good string 
manipulator.




From mdraghi at prosud.com  Sun Nov 14 22:57:03 2004
From: mdraghi at prosud.com (Mariano Draghi)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:57:03 -0300
Subject: Combining arbitrary lists
In-Reply-To: <41982269$1_1@alt.athenanews.com>
References: <41982269$1_1@alt.athenanews.com>
Message-ID: <cn99an$141$1@sea.gmane.org>

Nick wrote:
> Given that
> 
> n = [ [1, 2, 3], [4, 5, 6], [7, 8] ]
> 
> then the following code produces what I expect
> 
> for x in n[0]:
>   for y in n[1]:
>     for z in n[2]:
>       print [x, y, z]

...
> 
> How can I do this for an arbirary length of n?

I think this is what you're looking for:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/302478

> Muchos Gracias

De nada ;)

-- 
Mariano



From babloojhala at rediffmail.com  Tue Nov  2 06:14:27 2004
From: babloojhala at rediffmail.com (babloojhala at rediffmail.com)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 11:14:27 -0000
Subject: vacation mail
Message-ID: <20041102111427.2700.qmail@webmail14.rediffmail.com>

Hi,
Thank you for your mail. I'm away on work and will be back as early as possible.
Will reply as soon as I get back.
Regards,

Babloo


From niels_bohr at uol.com.br  Sun Nov  7 03:22:33 2004
From: niels_bohr at uol.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio?= Mendes)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 06:22:33 -0200
Subject: PEP new assert idiom
In-Reply-To: <418dc217.1833351810@news.oz.net>
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmurvv.1meude125h1zrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6027.1099792216.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<nYgjd.1129$6I1.1124@trndny05>  <418dc217.1833351810@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <1099815753.15924.11.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Thanks for clarification :-)

Fabio

Em Dom, 2004-11-07 ?s 07:43 +0000, Bengt Richter escreveu:
> On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 03:50:43 GMT, "Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> >[Fbio Mendes]
> >> This is very similar to what I'm proposing, with the only inconvinience
> >> that is uglier to type:
> >>
> >> assert \
> >>   exp1 and \
> >>   exp2 and \
> >>   ...
> >>   expn,
> >>   'ErrorMsg'
> >>
> >> Instead of:
> >>
> >> assert \
> >>   exp1,
> >>   exp2,
> >>   ...
> >>   expn,
> >>   'Errormsg'
> >>
> >> Well, I realize I didn't expressed my thoughts very clearly and that
> >> it's indeed a very minor change in python's syntax. It won't let anyone
> >> does anything new, IFAIK, but it makes a common pattern of code a little
> >> more beautiful, (and why not? more expressive). If one consider the fact
> >> that it won't break old code (only in one very unlikely case) I don't
> >> see it as a completely unreasonable suggestion. Other people may think
> >> differently though.
> >
> >The odds of Guido accepting this proposal are about zero.  As you say, it
> >doesn't do anything new, but it does require altering the grammar.  Besides,
> >TOOWTDI.
> >
> >Also, Guido tends to not be persuaded by arguments about "too much typing".
> >This is doubly true is you're talking about replacing an "and" with a comma (big
> >whoop).
> >
> >Also, one of the existing alternatives is quite readable:
> >
> >err = 'Errormsg'
> >assert exp1, err
> >assert exp2, err
> >assert exp3, err
> >
> >The alternative has the advantage that a failure will point to the exact
> >expression that failed.  The disadvantage is the repetition of the error
> >message; however, I disagree that your use case is common.  Instead, it is
> >likely more advantageous to have different error messages for each expression.
> >For example, the following comes from the post condition checks in QR matrix
> >decomposition:
> >
> >assert Q.tr().mmul(Q)==eye(min(m,n)), "Q is not orthonormal"
> >assert isinstance(R,UpperTri), "R is not upper triangular"
> >assert R.size==(m,n), "R is does not match the original dimensions"
> >assert Q.mmul(R)==self, "Q*R does not reproduce the original matrix"
> >
> >One could link all of these by an "and" or the proposed comma, but then you
> >end-up with a single, less informative error message, "The QR decomposition
> >bombed, but I won't tell you why ;-) ".
> >
> Besides, if you want the single message with comma-delimited expressions,
> you can already write:
> 
>  >>> assert False not in map(bool, (
>  ...     True,
>  ...     1,
>  ...     2==2
>  ... )), 'Error message'
> 
> Or to show what happens
>  >>> assert False not in map(bool, (
>  ...     True,
>  ...     1,
>  ...     2==3
>  ... )), 'Error message'
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>  AssertionError: Error message
> 
> Or with a little helper, and then two boilerplate lines for the assert,
> you can have individual messages:
> 
>  >>> def fff(*xm):
>  ...     """find first false xpr in seq xpr ,msg, xpr, msg and yield pair"""
>  ...     it = iter(xm)
>  ...     for x in it:
>  ...         m = it.next()
>  ...         if not x: yield x, m; break
>  ...
>  >>> def test(x):
>  ...     assert not [t for t in fff(
>  ...
>  ...         True, 'true msg',
>  ...         1,    'one msg',
>  ...         2==x, '2 eq x msg',
>  ...         'xx', 'xx msg'
>  ...
>  ...     )], 'Error: expr == %r,   msg = %r'%t
>  ...
>  >>> test(2)
>  >>> test(3)
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>    File "<stdin>", line 7, in test
>  AssertionError: Error: expr == False,   msg = '2 eq x msg'
> 
> Actually, why not just make a utility function "asserts" to do it:
> 
>  >>> def asserts(*expr_msg_seq):
>  ...     """find first false expression value and assert it with paired message"""
>  ...     it = iter(expr_msg_seq)
>  ...     for x in it:
>  ...         m = it.next()
>  ...         if not x:
>  ...             assert x, '%r -> %r'%(x, m)
>  ...
>  >>> def test(x):
>  ...     asserts(
>  ...         True, 'true msg',
>  ...         1, 'one msg',
>  ...         x, 'bool(x) is not True',
>  ...         x==2, '2 eq x msg',
>  ...         'xx', 'xx msg'
>  ...     )
>  ...
>  >>> test(2)
>  >>> test(3)
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>    File "<stdin>", line 7, in test
>    File "<stdin>", line 7, in asserts
>  AssertionError: False -> '2 eq x msg'
>  >>> test(0)
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>    File "<stdin>", line 7, in test
>    File "<stdin>", line 7, in asserts
>  AssertionError: 0 -> 'bool(x) is not True'
>  >>> test(())
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>    File "<stdin>", line 7, in test
>    File "<stdin>", line 7, in asserts
>  AssertionError: () -> 'bool(x) is not True'
>  >>> test(type('foo',(),{'__nonzero__':lambda self:0})())
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>    File "<stdin>", line 7, in test
>    File "<stdin>", line 7, in asserts
>  AssertionError: <__main__.foo object at 0x02EF17AC> -> 'bool(x) is not True'
>  >>> test(type('foo',(),{'__nonzero__':lambda self:1})())
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>    File "<stdin>", line 7, in test
>    File "<stdin>", line 7, in asserts
>  AssertionError: False -> '2 eq x msg'
>  >>> test(type('foo',(),{'__nonzero__':lambda self:1, '__cmp__':lambda s,o:0})())
> 
> I doesn't shortcut, so you could get an exception in preparing the arg list for
> a sequence like
>     asserts(
>         den !=0, 'denom must be zero',
>         num/den>5, 'better write it as assert num>5*den'
>     )
> which would be safer as
>     assert den !=0, 'denom must be zero'
>     assert num/den>5 'better write it as assert num>5*den'
> 
> Not to mention side effects, but you shouldn't have those in asserts anyway.
> 
> Silliness ;-)
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 14 12:57:26 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 18:57:26 +0100
Subject: Tkinter and Graphics
References: <10pf6ersh138jbe@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1gn98g2.1uhohpdpev85hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Andrew <nobody at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi I was wondering if there is anyway in Tkinter to create GUIs using
> Graphics, like windows media player or other tools like that

I guess you could do just about anything with Canvas, it that's what you
mean.


Alex


From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Nov  5 12:54:27 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 17:54:27 GMT
Subject: Usage statistics?
In-Reply-To: <slrnconb6t.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
References: <slrnconb6t.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <n7Pid.18702$KJ6.7302@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Gabriel Zachmann wrote:
> For some reason, I would like to have some statistics about how often
> Python is used in the *scientific* communities (such as astronomy,
> genetics, electrical engineering, ...), as opposed to C++ or Java
> or other "common" programming languages.

It would be nice to know the reason.  You're not in computational
genetics since you didn't mention Perl as a "common" programming
language.  You ask for broad fields -- experimental, computational,
sequencing/assembly, annotation, gene expression, genology and
cladistics are all aspects of genetics.

In the one I know best, bioinformatics (overlaps well with
computational genetics), people use Perl, Java, Python, then
Ruby and others.  Guessing based on talking to people at
conferences I'll put the numbers at 75% (Perl), 10% (Java),
10 (Python), 5% (other).

Whereas the sequence assembly most widely used are in C/C++
for performance reasons and the cladistic programs I know of
are in C because they were started in the 1980s.  But I don't
know those fields well.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From mwm at mired.org  Tue Nov  2 14:40:51 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:40:51 -0600
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
	<du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<4187b7a1$0$2383$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <x7654ovy2k.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> writes:

> Ville Vainio wrote:
>> I think you are overselling CPAN a little bit here. It is not an
>> absolute requirement, and I think Python can easily surpass Perl in
>> popularity even without CPAN functionality. Perl popularity in general
>> seems to be going down, and I don't think Perl is something to worry
>> about anymore. Hell, people rarely even mention Perl these days
>> anyway.
>
> Just today we required a module that was not installed on our system.
>
> sudo perl -MCPAN -e 'install Data::Pager'

With PyPI and distutils, we've got 90% of that already. PyPI needs to
grow a link to the tarball, and a way to turn a package name into that
link. Then you need a tool bundled with Python that gets the link from
PyPI, downloads the package, and runs "python setup.py install".

If you wanted to be brave about it, you could try scraping the
download link out of the PyPI page, then look for the link to the
tarball on that page.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From spammers-go-here at spam.invalid  Wed Nov 24 11:37:20 2004
From: spammers-go-here at spam.invalid (Madhusudan Singh)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:37:20 -0500
Subject: Book recommendation
References: <30ictaF2vhlgoU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<pan.2004.11.24.07.34.05.791770@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <30jrh8F31n13eU1@uni-berlin.de>

Paul Robson wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 22:21:34 -0500, Madhusudan Singh wrote:
> 
>> I am trying to teach myself Python. I have extensive prior programming
>> experience in Fortran, a little in C/C++,  Pascal, etc.
>> 
>> So far, I have been reading online tutorials at www.python.org and a book
>> I found at the library - Martin Brown's The Complete Reference Python. Is
>> there a standard classic book to learn from that I could buy ?
>> 
>> Say something like Metcalf and Reid's Fortran 90/95 Explained or
>> Kernighan and Ritchie's The C Programming Language.
> 
> Hi there Madhusudan :)
> 

Hi :)

> There's a couple of brief introductions worth reading ; one is by the
> language's creator Guido van Rossum, and the other by a chap called
> Swaroop (A byte of Python I think it's called). Both of these are quick
> read introduction type things.
> 
> A most entertaining and completely backward book is "Dive into Python"
> (all these are free downloads but you can buy the latter as a book) which
> has the approach where each section starts of with a relatively
> complex working chunk of Python code, then pulls it apart and shows you
> how all the bits work, and explains the various concepts as you go along.
> 

"Dive into Python" seems to be the favorite so far in this NG. 

> Once you've done that, if you want some useful bits of coding just to get
> the feel of it, try answering some of the Perl or Ruby Quiz-of-the-week
> questions (archives are online search for Perl|Ruby quiz of the week).

perl-qotw was interesting and language agnostic (If perl can do something,
so should Python - not that I know much perl). I will look into it on a
regular basis when I get my bearings.

> 
> None of the tasks are more than a page or two of python, but it's a quick
> way of getting a feel for the language.
> 
> The other thing that's handy to have to hand is the Quick Reference which
> is about 20 or so pages and handy for a quick look up.

Yep.

> 
> There are many IDEs and Editors about from the quick and dirty through to
> full IDEs (which personally I find too much of a clutter). I personally
> like Scite which is the former.

I use emacs for everything except authoring webpages. An operating system
disguised as an editor :)

> 
> Remember, for i in range(100): print "Murali chucks" :)

The above is syntactically correct only if you did not install
python-larry :)


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Nov 26 04:15:37 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:15:37 +0100
Subject: Replacing words from strings except  'and' / 'or' / 'and not'
References: <mailman.6781.1101393976.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<co4s42$mkb$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<co6pr9$aiq$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <co6s7k$n1m$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Peter Maas wrote:

> Diez B. Roggisch schrieb:
>> import sets
>> KEYWORDS = sets.Set(['and', 'or', 'not'])
>> 
>> query = "test and testing and not perl or testit or example"
>> 
>> def decorate(w):
>>     if w in KEYWORDS:
>>         return w
>>     return "*%s*" % w
>> 
>> query = " ".join([decorate(w.strip()) for w in query.split()])
> 
> Is there a reason to use sets here? I think lists will do as well.

Sets represent the concept better, and large lists will significantly slow
down the code (linear vs constant time). Unfortunately, as 2.3's Set is
implemented in Python, you'll have to wait for the 2.4 set builtin to see
the effect for small lists/sets. In the meantime, from a performance point
of view, a dictionary fares best:

$cat contains.py
from sets import Set

# we need more items than in KEYWORDS above for Set
# to even meet the performance of list :-(
alist = dir([]) 
aset = Set(alist)
adict = dict.fromkeys(alist)

$timeit.py -s"from contains import alist, aset, adict" "'not' in alist"
100000 loops, best of 3: 2.21 usec per loop
$timeit.py -s"from contains import alist, aset, adict" "'not' in aset"
100000 loops, best of 3: 2.2 usec per loop
$timeit.py -s"from contains import alist, aset, adict" "'not' in adict"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.337 usec per loop

Peter



From bearsprite at gmail.com  Thu Nov 25 01:29:03 2004
From: bearsprite at gmail.com (zhao)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 22:29:03 -0800
Subject: Use Python library from C++
In-Reply-To: <89cc6e1f.0411241939.61a19596@posting.google.com>
References: <89cc6e1f.0411241939.61a19596@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1101364143.006433.314340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>


Chang LI wrote:
> I want to use the Python Libray from my C++ program.
> The Python Libray is no GUI. How can I mix C++ and
> Python?
>
> One way is to run PY library as an independent process.
> Another way is to start PY as a C++ thread.
> The third way is to run Python engine as part of the C++.
> Which way is better?
>
> No intention to access all the Python's code but only
> access APIs of a module.

Try boost.python and SWIG?
(boost.sourceforge.net, swig.sourceforge.net)

Both provide a interface between C/C++ and python
if you want gui under python, you also can try wxpython or pygtk



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 14 04:07:01 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 10:07:01 +0100
Subject: How to load new class definitions at runtime?
References: <mailman.6287.1100207213.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gn8ja3.7d3sbhuk94khN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> attached to it. So simple object instances would not cut it. To allow
> the system to be customized without taking the application server
> offline, there must be a solution for these new class definitions to
> be loaded at runtime.

If you need them to be _updatable_ at runtime, look at a recipe by
Michael Hudson in the cookbook -- I've updated it for the printed
version 2nd ed (since we do have __subclasses__ now, yay!) but that's
not done yet.  My vote for most useful custom metaclasses ever...

> My current solution is simple. Class definitions have to be executed,
> and for it to work, the class name and the source code (or the
> compiled bytecode) is stored in a database. A class factory function
> retrieves the correct class definition (based on the name), and simply
> executes the code.

You can pickle the bytecode etc (again, cookbook recipes show how) but
that has no real advantage wrt storing the source or bytecode.  Just
make sure, for performance, that if you store the source the bytecode
also gets stashed away when first made.  Unless for some weird reason
you need your code repository to support multiple releases of Python at
the same time (eek), you might as well store the bytecode at the time
the source is stored -- upgrading release of Python in the future _will_
require a DB conversion and some downtime for the switch.

> Now, talking about executing arbitrary code retrieved from a database
> isn't exactly a safe proposition. But I can't see any other way to
> make it work. I'm now looking for more ideas on how do other people
> solved the same problem in other projects. Pointers are welcome.

If you want to allow arbitrary class definitions to happen at runtime,
"a safe proposition" is an oxymoron -- obviously you have to trust
*entirely* the repository of the code (and pickles would be just about
the same thing).  Digital signatures to ensure the repository has not
been tampered with would also need to be stored somewhere entirely
trustable, so you might as well declare that the trust must be towards
the repository, in all practical cases I can think of.


>From past experience with this sort of thing, my practical suggestion
is: make sure you have a development/debug mode in which the classes are
first looked for on ordinary modules in the filesystem, then gotten from
the DB only if the ordinary modules don't have them.  When you're
developing and debugging, you'll heavily use this feature, believe me,
and also Michael Hudson's recipe above-mentioned, since tweaks and mods
to the classes will come at a hefty pace.

It's a harder deployment decision whether the normal system operation
should also support the filesystem, or just the database.  The latter
makes development less convenient, but distributed processing much
easiery to manage, updates are transactional and atomic, etc.  It
depends on how much customization-during-operation you'll need, vs the
other deployment issues.


Alex


From gaudette at ele.uri.edu  Wed Nov 24 00:58:12 2004
From: gaudette at ele.uri.edu (Jason)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 21:58:12 -0800
Subject: namespace & imported modules
Message-ID: <799208ed.0411232158.2a6d0782@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I've been having trouble understanding the difference between global
namespace within and between modules.  For example, I can program a
subthread to see a global name (a threaded event to be specific);
however, somehow when I break up my code into different modules, the
subthread can no longer see the global name in the main program.

Here's an example of what I'm trying to accomplish:

Working script pseudo-code:
======================================================
# main.py
---------------------------
import std modules

def thread1
def thread2

launch thread1: wait for event
launch thread2: signal thread1's event
======================================================
#END: Broken script pseudo-code 

and here's it's seemingly equivalent part...

#START: Broken script pseudo-code 
======================================================
# subfile.py:
---------------------------
import std modules

def thread1
def thread2

---------------------------
# main.py
import std modules
from subfile import thread1, thread2        # this should be the only
difference

launch thread1: wait for event
launch thread2: signal thread1's event
======================================================
#END: Broken script pseudo-code 

The broken code would yield the following exception when thread2 tries
to signal thread1's event:
"NameError: global name 'myName' is not defined"

I hope I didn't simplify the problem too much, but I didn't want to
paste 200 lines of code for no one to read.

Obviously I'm missing something regarding namespace and global scopes.
 Would anyone be able to point out what I've overlooked?  Any help is
appreciated.

-Jason


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Nov  4 21:31:04 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 21:31:04 -0500
Subject: Has anyone released a Python "mock filesystem" for automated
	testing?
Message-ID: <OImdnYXxIItbfhfcRVn-iA@powergate.ca>

The term "mock filesystem" refers to code allowing unit
or acceptance tests to create, read and write, and manipulate
in other ways "virtual" files, without any actual disk
access.  Everything is held in memory and therefore fast,
without risk of damaging real files, and with none of the
messiness of leftover files after testing.

Googling the archives and the web suggests that only I and
Remy Blank have done much along these lines.  I don't see
any sign that anyone has actually released such a beast
yet, however.

My own past work in this area was always proprietary, and
as "you can't take it with you" I've been starting over
on a new project and have the basics working.  If nobody
can point me to a more complete implementation, I'll be
happy to continue to work on mine and release it in the
near future.

For now, in case anyone is interested, I have support
for basic open, read/write, __iter__, close, "r" and "w"
modes, a couple of the most basic exceptions, and a
tiny handful of lesser things.  All well supported by
their own unit tests, of course, to ensure quality.
Stripped class/def lines shown below, as that may be
an easier way for you to picture what this is about:

class MockFile(object):
     def __init__(self, fs, path, data='', mode=''):
     def _getContents(self):
     def read(self):
     def write(self, data):
     def close(self):
     def __iter__(self):


class FileSystem(object):
     '''Acts like a real file system to support testing.'''
     def __init__(self, mocktime=False):
     def _createFile(self, path, data):
     def _getFile(self, path):
     def open(self, path, mode='r'):

Thanks for any pointers to more advanced stuff.

-Peter


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Nov  2 20:18:41 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 20:18:41 -0500
Subject: Newbie Question
In-Reply-To: <783d0f8c.0411012335.196183ce@posting.google.com>
References: <783d0f8c.0411012335.196183ce@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <418831F1.8020405@holdenweb.com>

[posted and mailed]

Uday wrote:
> Hi,
>   I would like to know how can I create and assign variables by 
> de-referencing the values in other variable in Python. 
> 
> I can illustrate what I mean by an example of perl
> 
> $a = "task_id";
> $i = "1";
> $c = $a."_".$i;
> $$c = 2;
> print "$task_id_1\n";
> # Gives the answer as 2
> 
> My problem is that I need to dynamically generate a unique 
> variable within a for loop in Python. The name of the variable
> should be appended by the index of the loop. 
> 
> In the above example if $i were an array index, then as we
> traverse through the array, a unique variable is defined.
> 
> Is there any way to do it in Python??
> 
> I am not in python.users mailing list, please reply to me directly.
> 
> Thanks,
> Uday

It's bad enough doing that in Perl, but in Python you should definitely 
use a dictionary (in Perl read "hash") for applications like this. What 
do you see as the advantage of your code over using a hash?

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de  Thu Nov  4 14:35:33 2004
From: wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de (Wolfgang Keller)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:35:33 +0100
Subject: JMS for CPython via JPype?
References: <1b2k1czwwox4i$.ae466jlsmeu2$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<b9Yhd.50895$ag5.2219651@wagner.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <zquegn6d2whw.cmuw17wwiixu$.dlg@40tude.net>

Hello,

and thanks for your reply.

>> would JPype make it possible 
>> for a CPython program to use JMS? 
 
> I am not very well versed in JMS, but unless it absolutely REQUIRE 
> subclassing, JPype will allow you to make full use for it without problem.
> 
> How to actually interpret the contents of the JMS message is left as an 
> exercise to the reader ;)

Err, does JPype not provide something for interfacing with Java like CTypes
provides it for interfacing with C? I.e. working with Java/C types in
Python as if they were Python variables?

TIA,

Regards

Wolfgang Keller


From exarkun at divmod.com  Sat Nov 27 13:28:02 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:28:02 GMT
Subject: Replacing words from strings except  'and' / 'or' / 'and not'
In-Reply-To: <coaeus$3pk$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <20041127182802.17481.1840580316.divmod.quotient.8311@ohm>

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:54:02 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>Peter Maas wrote:
> > Diez B. Roggisch schrieb:
> >> import sets
> >> KEYWORDS = sets.Set(['and', 'or', 'not'])
> >>...
> >> def decorate(w):
> >>     if w in KEYWORDS:
> >>         return w
> >>     return "*%s*" % w
> >>
> > Is there a reason to use sets here? I think lists will do as well.
> 
> Sets are implemented using dictionaries, so the "if w in KEYWORDS"
> part would be O(1) instead of O(n) as with lists...
> 
> (I.e. searching a list is a brute-force operation, whereas
> sets are not.)

  And yet... using sets here is slower in every possible case:

exarkun at boson:~$ timeit.py -s 'from sets import Set; x = Set(["and", "or", "not"])' 'None in x'
1000000 loops, best of 3: 1.54 usec per loop
exarkun at boson:~$ timeit.py -s 'from sets import Set; x = Set(["and", "or", "not"])' '"not" in x'
1000000 loops, best of 3: 1.49 usec per loop
exarkun at boson:~$ timeit.py -s 'from sets import Set; x = Set(["and", "or", "not"])' '"or" in x'
1000000 loops, best of 3: 1.48 usec per loop
exarkun at boson:~$ timeit.py -s 'from sets import Set; x = Set(["and", "or", "not"])' '"and" in x'
1000000 loops, best of 3: 1.46 usec per loop
exarkun at boson:~$ timeit.py -s 'x = ["and", "or", "not"]' 'None in x'
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.5 usec per loop
exarkun at boson:~$ timeit.py -s 'x = ["and", "or", "not"]' '"not" in x'
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.235 usec per loop
exarkun at boson:~$ timeit.py -s 'x = ["and", "or", "not"]' '"or" in x'
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.21 usec per loop
exarkun at boson:~$ timeit.py -s 'x = ["and", "or", "not"]' '"and" in x'
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.186 usec per loop
exarkun at boson:~$ 

  This is a pretty clear example of premature optimization.  When developing any software, the first goal should be to make it work, as simply as possible.  Then, when a need for improved performance is identified, the software should be profiled.  Finally, when real hot spots are identified, they should be optimized.

  Going out of order is often detrimental, and the above example is a clear case of this: the "optimization" slowed down the function by a factor of no less than 3 and no more than 8.2.

  Jp


From baza at themauvezone.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Nov 13 13:25:01 2004
From: baza at themauvezone.fsnet.co.uk (Baza)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 18:25:01 +0000
Subject: idle on mac os 10.3.5
References: <pan.2004.11.12.02.57.38.224572@gmail.com>
	<JX%kd.16258$Km6.174867@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <BDBC01FD.2F3%baza@themauvezone.fsnet.co.uk>





> You'll need to get MacPython2.3 for panther from
> http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython/download.html
> 
> Install it and launch /Applications/MacPython-2.3/PackageManager.
> Install tkinter.
> 
> You may, or may not - can't remember, have to install TclTkAqua-8.4.7
> from http://tcltkaqua.sourceforge.net/

It seems there is a, 'show stopper' bug in this that prevents idle from
running, it's mentioned on their site. So I'm stuck with using a texted
editor and >>> for the moment it seems.

Barry



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Nov 30 08:24:42 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 13:24:42 GMT
Subject: weird behaviour of "0 in [] is False"
References: <pan.2004.11.30.12.57.59.582543@nospam.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <Xns95B1886C9CAB7duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Sylvain Thenault wrote:

> Hi there !
> 
> Can someone explain me the following behaviour ?
> 
>>>> l = []
>>>> 0 in (l is False)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: iterable argument required
>>>> (0 in l) is False
> True
>>>> 0 in l is False
> False
> 
> 
> This is really obscur to me...
> 

>From the language reference (5.9 Comparisons):

> comparison  ::=  or_expr ( comp_operator or_expr )* 
> comp_operator  ::=  "<" | ">" | "==" | ">=" | "<=" | "<>" | "!=" 
>     | "is" ["not"] | ["not"] "in" 
>
> ...snip...
>
> Formally, if a, b, c, ..., y, z are expressions and opa, opb, ..., opy
> are comparison operators, then a opa b opb c ...y opy z is equivalent
> to a opa b and b opb c and ... y opy z, except that each expression is
> evaluated at most once. 

In other words '0 in l is False' is equivalent to '0 in l and l is False'.



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Nov  7 18:36:19 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 23:36:19 GMT
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c718a6cf.0411061137.683823ec@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6022.1099784038.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418e8f90.1885952706@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 10:33:01 +1100, Maurice LING <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote:

>
>> 
>> dude that "comparision" from twistedmatrix you refrence is ANCIENT!!!
>
>I am wondering the impact when IBM decided that the base memory to not 
>exceed 64kb, in the late 1960s...
>
>I suppose more experienced people in this list can agree that certain 
>decisions made can be almost an edict. So, there is a re-building 
>process every now and then, hopefully to by-pass such edicts. Python 
>itself is already such an example.
>
>> 
>> it is comparing versions that are YEARS out of date and use!
>
>Are the codebase of Python 1.5.2 and Java 1.1 totally replaced and 
>deprecated?
>
>Lisp compiler is the 1st compiler to be created (according to the 
>Red-Dragon book, I think) and almost all others are created by 
>bootstrapping to LISP compiler. What are the implications of design 
>decisions made in LISP compiler then affecting our compilers today? I 
>don't know. I repeat myself, I DO NOT KNOW.
>
google is your friend. I would suggest prefixing "UIAM" to statements
or strong implications of "fact" that you are not really sure of ;-)
Perhaps you are not familiar with the various typical ways of softening
the assertiveness of statements in English? I notice several statements
above that start out looking like authoritative statements of fact, but
which you qualify in your way, yet it seems you were unsatisfied with
the effect, and added the last sentence.

"We are all ignorant, only on different subjects", as (UIAM ;-) Will Rogers
said. But here at c.l.py it is unlikely that all are totally ignorant on a
particular computer language subject, so if you post an unqualified statement
of "fact" (or slip an implicit statement of "fact" into a question, as in the
subject line of this thread ;-) that may not be so, someone will notice,
and wonder why you are doing that (since you haven't annnounced that you're
a political candidate ;-)

One reason might be language difficulties, but your English is too good
for that to jump immediately to mind.

Another reason might be forgetting that posting here is actually engaging other
human beings, and thinking of c.l.py posts as a kind of automated google
mechanism which has no feelings about how it is being used. But humans do care,
and provocative techniques of eliciting response do "provoke." Kids intent on
their immediate goals sometimes forget, but generally respond to a gentle reminder.

Another reason might be to spread disinformation for some private reason,
e.g. as a sleazy way to discredit competition. I don't think that applies here.
Or are you heavily invested in particular stocks? ;-)

Anyway, I think the best we can do is to help each other find out what the
real facts are, which requires not presenting suppositions as fact, while
recognizing that appearances are often deceiving to even the most experienced.
In that spirit, we wind up expressing doubts without bruising egos, and thanking
each other for contributions to improved understanding instead of defending against
feeling a fool for having believed something that was not so, or being annoyed
at careless spread of disinformation.

(of course, I haven't personally verified the "facts" stated in the
following sites ;-)

http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/CommonLisp
"""
The first Lisp compiler was developed by JohnMcCarthy at Dartmouth College
between 1955 and 1959. This makes it the second oldest programming language
in common use today (only Fortran is older, developed between 1954 and 1957).
"""

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/languages/fortran/ch1-1.html
"""
 This wonderful first FORTRAN compiler was designed and written from 
 scratch in 1954-57 by an IBM team lead by John W. Backus and staffed with 
 super-programmers like Sheldon F. Best, Harlan Herrick, Peter Sheridan, 
 Roy Nutt, Robert Nelson, Irving Ziller, Richard Goldberg, Lois Haibt 
 and David Sayre.  By the way, Backus was also system co-designer of the 
 computer that run the first compiler, the IBM 704.
"""
http://www.latrobe.edu.au/philosophy/phimvt/sympas/s49hiteco.html
http://www.moorecad.com/standardpascal/pcom.pas

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From robin at SPAMREMOVEjessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Nov 28 05:49:16 2004
From: robin at SPAMREMOVEjessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 10:49:16 +0000
Subject: C API PyErr_Clear vs PyObject_HasAttrString
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6846.1101618272.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <41A88448.4010501@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
	<mailman.6846.1101618272.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41A9AD2C.1010404@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

Andrew MacIntyre wrote:
.....
> 
> Rule:  if you call a Python API function, _always_ check its return
>        status (unless documented as void).  if it fails, check for an
>        exception.  if you want to ignore the exception, clear the
>        exception, otherwise cleanup and bailout.
> 
> This is a paraphrase (from memory) of a previous reply from Tim Peters.
> 
> Notwithstanding this, segfaulting in a Python API function is not welcome
> (especially one documented as always succeeding!).
> 
> I had a look at the source (from a CVS checkout this morning), and the
> only thing that looks like a source of such trouble would be an extension
> class with a tp_getattr implementation.

It is such a beast, but the exciting test case looks like

#####################
import _test
g=_test.gstate()

for a in ('strokeColor','strokeColor'):
	try:
		setattr(g,a,(1,2,3))
		print 'Wrong handling of bad '+a
	except ValueError:
		pass
#####################

so the tp_getattr slot isn't being used.
> 
> If you are using such a beast, you might want to look at the tp_getattr
> implementation first.  Otherwise I'd suggest filing a bug report on SF.
> BTW, have you tried this with 2.4c1?

Can't today, but I'll try and build the cut down extension with 2.4c1 
tomorrow.
-- 
Robin Becker


From ken at perfect-image.com  Tue Nov 30 00:35:45 2004
From: ken at perfect-image.com (Ken Godee)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 22:35:45 -0700
Subject: threading, qt, and the freakout
In-Reply-To: <604fc0ca.0411291928.4d59781d@posting.google.com>
References: <604fc0ca.0411291928.4d59781d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41AC06B1.9050809@perfect-image.com>

Ben Floyd wrote:
> Hey everyone,
> 
> Why doesn't this work? The code speaks much more clearly than I do,
> so i shortened it and pasted it below.  Running this
> and clicking on 'Break Me' will... freak out the window...

You can not mix GUI threads and non GUI threads.

Just changing text may seem to work, but
even that will get you eventually.

Here's an article that explains how to do it...

http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=30708






From rdsteph at mac.com  Wed Nov 24 14:44:22 2004
From: rdsteph at mac.com (Ron Stephens)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 11:44:22 -0800
Subject: Is there any tools to create User Interface (Dialogs...) for
	wxPython visually?
References: <41a4adf0$0$17787$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <e33e124c.0411241144.2f2c03c5@posting.google.com>

Yes,  there are a plethora of good options. For starters, you might
try looking here:

http://www.awaretek.com/toolkits.html


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sat Nov  6 06:34:05 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 12:34:05 +0100
Subject: executing python code
References: <cmgvvd$chn$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <md63fpaqtfg1$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Darren Dale (2004-11-05 23:47 +0200)
> Some time ago I asked about executing a python program or script. For
> windows, I was informed that the .py extension could be added to some list
> of executable extensions, and then I could just type "mycode" instead of
> "python mycode.py". Great advice, worked like a charm.

"PATHEXT"
 
> I recently jumped ship, and have been running Gentoo Linux for about two
> months. Is it possible to get the same behavior on Linux?

No.

> I thought it
> would have something to do with adding the #!/usr/bin/env python line to my
> code, but I'm not sure what this is supposed to do (it didnt work, that
> much I know.)
> 
> Could I get some advice?

You're confusing a lot of things. Something like "PATHEXT" doesn't
exist on Linux. So you always have to type the full name of the script
(or use tab completion).

You can type "./myapp.py" if the script has the "she bang" first line
mentioned above and the file is executable.

You can type "myapp.py" if the script has the "she bang" first line
mentioned above and the file is executable and the current directory
is in your path (which it is /not/ the default under Linux - contrary
to Windows - and which is not advised).

You can type myapp.py - even if the script is not executable and not
in your path and doesn't have a "#!" line if you use an advanced shell
like zsh (Z Shell) and add a suffix alias ("alias -s py=python") to
your .zshrc

Just typing "myapp" won't work.

Thorsten


From tchur at optushome.com.au  Wed Nov  3 16:12:56 2004
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: 04 Nov 2004 08:12:56 +1100
Subject: Can someone show me a code example that stuffs data into a web
	page and scrpaes the result ?
In-Reply-To: <cmbgt1$ged$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <cmbgt1$ged$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1099516376.1241.56.camel@emilio>

On Thu, 2004-11-04 at 08:00, Al Dykes wrote:
> Can someone point me to some python code that puts data into several
> fields in a web page, clicks on a button to send the page and then
> looks for a string in the resulting page and gives me the number
> string to thr right of it.

See http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/

-- 

Tim C

PGP/GnuPG Key 1024D/EAF993D0 available from keyservers everywhere
or at http://members.optushome.com.au/tchur/pubkey.asc
Key fingerprint = 8C22 BF76 33BA B3B5 1D5B  EB37 7891 46A9 EAF9 93D0





From drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com  Mon Nov 29 15:51:50 2004
From: drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com (drs)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:51:50 GMT
Subject: Random number generation from functions
Message-ID: <GZLqd.29561$1u.7448@twister.nyroc.rr.com>

Is there any way to generate random numbers based on arbitrary real valued
functions? I am looking for something like random.gauss() but with natural
log and exponential functions.

thanks,

-d




From rahlf at informatik.uni-bonn.de  Mon Nov 22 08:34:17 2004
From: rahlf at informatik.uni-bonn.de (Sebastian Rahlf)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:34:17 +0100
Subject: pyKDE tutorial
Message-ID: <cnsptb$h96$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>

Hi!
Does anyone know a good tutorial for pyKDE?
Seb.
--
Sebastian Rahlf
rahlf[at]informatik.uni-bonn.de


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Sat Nov  6 13:29:53 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 16:29:53 -0200
Subject: cherrypy/cheetah vs twisted/nevow
In-Reply-To: <69cbbef2.0411050857.6dfe11bd@posting.google.com>
References: <slrncoc0tr.1tc7.charlotte@xs2.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.5766.1099319968.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418818ca$0$19452$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5867.1099489510.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<69cbbef2.0411050857.6dfe11bd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <864d370904110610293de941ef@mail.gmail.com>

On 5 Nov 2004 08:57:21 -0800, has <has.temp2 at virgin.net> wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote in message:
> > In a way, you're right. The problem is that none of the templating
> > models that I know of completely separates the 'M' from the 'V'.
> 
> Plenty of templating systems allow Model-View separation. Not all
> *enforce* it, but this is a matter of philosophy [1], not an indicator
> that a template system is good or bad.
> 
> Some templating systems (e.g. Nevow.Renderer, PyMeld and HMTLTemplate)
> additionally separate presentation logic from markup via an approach
> that's strongly reminiscent of Apple-style MVC, where the View layer
> consists purely of GUI widget/template node instances and the
> Controller layer contains code for (1) manipulating these objects and
> (2) connecting to the Model layer.

I'm not sure if I understand your point, and it may be the case that
I'm really missing something. I think that, by its very definition,
templating systems (including variables, conditionals, loops, and
other control structures) *do* mix some aspects from the model into
the view. One may argue at which extent it's possible to keep both
apart -- at some point, there must be an interface -- so it may be a
matter of personal choice.

My current standing (after a long break from applications development,
which allowed me to re-enter with a fresh perspective, but also a
little 'rusty') is that the templating interface should be made
simpler, not more powerful, and that the model should take care of the
intermediation. For example, I *feel* that repetitive elements (like
lists and reports) shouldn't be modelled as programming loops inside a
template. I really don't have a solution for this yet. Albeit
confusing, XSLT is a step in the right direction, but it sometimes
feels like they're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Nevow
implement a very intriguing idea: it allows to derive the *structure*
from the template. I'm still looking, though.


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From jerf at jerf.org  Sun Nov 14 18:38:53 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 18:38:53 -0500
Subject: using python on the command line with 'here-documents' and pipes
References: <slrncpf4ga.1u7.calmar@news.calmar.ws>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.14.23.38.53.461566@jerf.org>

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 18:12:42 +0100, calmar wrote:
> It would be possible to use here-documents (for having the correct
> identation during e.g while loops) for writing python code on the fly, but
> then how and where to get the pipe output:
> 
> echo -e 'line1\nline2' | python <<EOF  ....
> 
> Does not really work...
> 
> Would anybody have an idea how to use python like e.g. awk etc. As a tool
> within, where I can handle the stdin data, and write the code right there
> (e.g. with here documents)?

Can you post a working example for awk? I'll admit I'm not a shell expert,
but it seems like you are trying to stuff two files onto stdin, the "echo"
result and the python program. I don't understand how that could ever
work, and now you've piqued my curiosity.



From irond_will at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 30 17:55:25 2004
From: irond_will at yahoo.com (irond_will)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 14:55:25 -0800
Subject: PIL interpolation access
References: <9654e9e8.0411301118.15ce43ee@posting.google.com>
	<opsia6ht1d1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
Message-ID: <9654e9e8.0411301455.243ad248@posting.google.com>

I managed to get steps 2 and 4 fixed (grabbing and putting the
pixels).  I converted some code found at
http://effbot.org/zone/pil-numpy.htm written by Fredrick Lundh. 
Currently, it only works for RBG bitmaps.

I'm certain that there are better ways to do some of this, but it's
pretty zippy as it stands.  Now I really need to figure out the
bicubic interp, since that's the part that takes hours right now.


import image
import numarray

def image2numarray(im):

    #This function returns an array of RGB pixel values
    #The dimensions correspond as follows:
    #Dim 1 = column or x value
    #Dim 2 = row or y value
    #Dim 3 = color value or [R,G,B] for [0, 1, 2]
    
    if im.mode not in ("L", "F","RGB"):
        raise ValueError, "Unsupported image type"
    if im.mode == "L":
        a = fromstring(im.tostring(), UInt8)
        a.shape = im.size[1], im.size[0]
    elif im.mode == "F":
        a = fromstring(im.tostring(), Float32)
        a.shape = im.size[1], im.size[0]
    else:
        a = fromstring(im.tostring(), UInt8)
        a.shape = (im.size[1], im.size[0],3)

    a.transpose((1,0,2)) 
    
    return vect_math.array_flip(a,1)

def numarray2image(a):
    #This function returns an array of RGB pixel values
    #The dimensions correspond as follows:
    #Dim 1 = column or x value
    #Dim 2 = row or y value
    #Dim 3 = color value or [R,G,B] for [0, 1, 2]
    #The standard adopted here is that the lower-left corner is [0,0]
    
    a = a.astype('UInt8')
    b = vect_math.array_flip(a,1)
    b.transpose((1,0,2))
    return Image.fromstring('RGB', (b.shape[1], b.shape[0]),
b.tostring())

def array_flip(X,ndim):

    #flips X along specified axis

    return take(X,tuple(range(X.shape[ndim]-1,-1,-1)),axis=ndim)

"Caleb Hattingh" <caleb1 at telkomsa.net> wrote in message news:<opsia6ht1d1js0xs at news.telkomsa.net>...
> Hi
> 
> I can't help you directly, but I am also finding im.putpixel to be  
> extremely slow - as the docs recommend, can you try using the  
> pixel-placing method of Draw?  This is what I am going to try for my  
> application (resampling algorithms).
> 
> Thx
> Caleb


From mpapec at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 22 11:21:26 2004
From: mpapec at yahoo.com (Matija Papec)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:21:26 +0100
Subject: for(each) element aliasing
Message-ID: <2844q0l5ccahj6poumolghrcm2u2boo9ka@4ax.com>


I know how to alter the list via list indicies but I would like to know if
there is posibility to write in Python something like:

my @arr = 1..3;
for my $element (@arr) {
  $element *= 2;
}
print "@arr\n";

and get the result
-------
2 4 6


-- 
Matija


From ahaas at airmail.net  Sat Nov 13 13:43:17 2004
From: ahaas at airmail.net (Art Haas)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 12:43:17 -0600
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] Nineteenth release of PythonCAD now available
Message-ID: <20041113184317.GR7238@artsapartment.org>

I'm pleased to announce the nineteenth development release of PythonCAD,
a CAD package for open-source software users. As the name implies,
PythonCAD is written entirely in Python. The goal of this project is
to create a fully scriptable drafting program that will match and eventually
exceed features found in commercial CAD software. PythonCAD is released
under the GNU Public License (GPL).

PythonCAD requires Python 2.2 or Python 2.3. The interface is GTK 2.0
based, and uses the PyGTK module for interfacing to GTK. The design of
PythonCAD is built around the idea of separating the interface
from the back end as much as possible. By doing this, it is hoped
that both GNOME and KDE interfaces can be added to PythonCAD through
usage of the appropriate Python module. As of the sixteenth release,
a Cocoa based front end is available for people on OS X having
the Python/Objective-C bindings. Addition of other PythonCAD 
interfaces will depend on the availability of a Python module for that
particular interface and developer interest and action.

The nineteenth release of PythonCAD fixes a file saving bug found shortly
after the eighteenth release was made public. The bug affected drawings
that had text entities. A fix for this bug was found and tested by the
bug reporter (thanks Ed Richley!) and confirmed to fix the problem.
The serious nature of the bug called for making this new release. The
only other change appearing in this release is the addition of the
PostScript command 'showpage' appearing at the end of the generated
plot file. Anyone using the eighteenth release is urge to upgrade
immediately.

The mailing list for the development and use of PythonCAD is available.
Visit the following page for information about subscribing and viewing
the mailing list archive:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythoncad

Visit the PythonCAD web site for more information about what PythonCAD
does and aims to be:

http://www.pythoncad.org/

Come and join me in developing PythonCAD into a world class drafting
program!

Art Haas
-- 
Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities
the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind.

-Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Nov 17 14:22:38 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:22:38 -0600
Subject: os.system vs os.system inside thread -> why is there any
	difference?
In-Reply-To: <cng2gp$mup$1@julia.coi.pw.edu.pl>
References: <cng2gp$mup$1@julia.coi.pw.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <20041117192237.GC25465@unpythonic.net>

On POSIX systems, Python blocks the delivery of signals to threads, and
installs a 'pthread_atfork' handler to restore the default behavior when
fork() is called, because otherwise it leads to weird behavior in
programs started with fork+exec.

In the case of arping, I suspect the of the SIGALRM signal remains
blocked, and arping waits forever for either the signal or the return
packet.

On Linux, at least, system() never calls the pthread_atfork
handler, and the redhat maintainers have made it clear that they believe
this behavior is allowed by the Open Group unix specification.

Here's an entry-point into a python-dev thread on the subject:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-December/041311.html
with links to the Open Group specification and the closed redhat bug.

I suggest you write a replacement for system() in terms of fork + exec
and then you should get the behavior you want.

I continue to believe this is a redhat or glibc bug but my opinion
doesn't seem to matter.

Jeff
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From ark at acm.org  Sat Nov 20 09:32:57 2004
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:32:57 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.6614.1100891946.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<419E6C13.1040508@v.loewis.de> <b8ynd.1301$QR.263@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <tAInd.40375$7i4.14713@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

"Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message 
news:b8ynd.1301$QR.263 at lakeread01...

> I seriously wonder how long the US Patent Office is prepared to continue 
> making an ass of itself.

I do not know if this is still true, but I heard a number of years ago that 
the US Patent office, in response to Congress denying their request for more 
funding for patent examiners, combined with court rulings that require them 
to accept software patents, decided to accept any software patent that is 
filed.

Of course, such acceptance does not guarantee that the patent is worth 
anything.  What happens instead is that if there is an infringement case, 
the defendant has the opportunity to claim that the patent is invalid, 
either because it is obvious or because there is prior art.

So in effect the Patent Office is shifting their financial burden onto the 
shoulders of prospective defendants. 




From dfh at forestfield.co.uk  Thu Nov  4 05:50:44 2004
From: dfh at forestfield.co.uk (David Hughes)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 02:50:44 -0800
Subject: How do you execute an OS X application (bundle) from Python?
Message-ID: <70bb9f8d.0411040250.1f4ac1a@posting.google.com>

For example, in Python in a Nutshell, Alex Martelli shows how you can
run a Windows (notepad.exe) or Unix-like (/bin/vim) text editor using
      os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, editor, [textfile])
But how would you call the OS X text editor /Applications/TextEdit.app
- which appears to be a whole directory inside /Applications?

I'm sorry if the answer is blindingly obvious. I work alone and
sometimes just get stuck, then have to ask in public and risk
appearing a noodle brain.

David


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov 26 16:34:42 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:34:42 -0500
Subject: dictionary initialization
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7C6D@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
	<740c3aec04112613043a0b0d2b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <co87h6$e8d$1@sea.gmane.org>


"BJ?rn Lindqvist" <bjourne at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:740c3aec04112613043a0b0d2b at mail.gmail.com...
> >>> del x
> >>> x *= 5

> Maybe Python can't guess it, but *I* can guess, with 99% certainity,
> that the user wants x to be 0. :)

However, it is 'obvious' to me that the 'proper' initialization is 1 and 
the intended result should be 5.  Or that the programmer forgot something 
and that the proper response is to raise an error, as Python does.  Wanting 
5 * undisclosed something to be 0 strikes me as unlikely and a distant 
third since x = 0 is much easier to say.

Also: 'x op= y' is defined as being semantically equal to 'x = x op y' 
except for the single rather than double evaluation of x.  Therefore, if 
the latter raises an error for unbound x, so should the former.

Terry J. Reedy





From simon.alexandre at cetic.be  Fri Nov 12 08:59:54 2004
From: simon.alexandre at cetic.be (simon.alexandre at cetic.be)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 14:59:54 +0100
Subject: Accessing an instance via its memory address (instance at ...)
Message-ID: <cn2fkq$k6u$2@ikaria.belnet.be>

Hi

I have a list containing several instance address, for example:

[<JavaClass instance at 00BAC290>, <JavaClass instance at 00BB0D10>,
<JavaClass instance at 00BA5230>]

I'd like to invoke a method on each of these instance but I don't know :

1. if its possible
2. how to proceed

someone can help me ?

tks

simon





From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Nov 16 20:29:05 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:29:05 -0800
Subject: why python?
In-Reply-To: <cndpgm$s82$1@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca>
References: <cndpgm$s82$1@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <20041116172320.F97C.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


"99%SugarFree" <renee0102 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> For those of you who used Python, have you used Prolog or ML??What do u
> think of these 3 language comparing to each other when you are coding?

Yes, I've used both Prolog and SML-NJ.  Prolog was nifty, as was SML-NJ. 
Being that they take completely different approaches in the way you
think of and implement algorithms, I am not sure they are comparable in
any useful sense of the word.


> I've just known about Python language recently for a research project.
> I'm just wondering what kind of applications out there using Python??

Many.
http://sourceforge.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=178
Is just a start.


> Where can I find more information about  the philosophical, technical and
> design features of Python??

>>> import this
The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters

Beautiful is better than ugly.
Explicit is better than implicit.
Simple is better than complex.
Complex is better than complicated.
Flat is better than nested.
Sparse is better than dense.
Readability counts.
Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.
Although practicality beats purity.
Errors should never pass silently.
Unless explicitly silenced.
In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess.
There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.
Although that way may not be obvious at first unless you're Dutch.
Now is better than never.
Although never is often better than *right* now.
If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea.
If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea.
Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!




From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 14 03:22:58 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 14 Nov 2004 00:22:58 -0800
Subject: Creating combination of sequences
References: <7dc80c2.0411131026.c4cf2e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0411140022.447d03fb@posting.google.com>

minho_chae at yahoo.com (Minho Chae) wrote:
> I'm trying to create combinations of sequences.
> For example, if the sequence is 'acgt' and the length is 8,
> then I would like to have 4^8 results such as
> 'aaaaaaaa', 'aaaaaaac', 'aaaaaaag', 'aaaaaaat', ... 'tttttttt'

strings = lambda Xs, k: reduce(lambda r, i: [p + x for p in r for x
in Xs], range(k), [''])

print strings('acgt', 8)

This has been recently discussed. See

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=8ef9bea6.0410231916.450f67d%40posting.google.com
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=1gm5ojm.10239ef1m2hnrpN%25aleaxit%40yahoo.com

and other previous threads and follow-ups. This question seems to pop
up more often than I thought.

Kamsahapnida,

Hung Jung


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Mon Nov  1 13:56:49 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 13:56:49 -0500
Subject: Few questions
In-Reply-To: <5c882bb5.0411010835.5a409600@posting.google.com>
References: <5c882bb5.0411010835.5a409600@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <HuCdnc9CbM9vGxvcRVn-qA@giganews.com>

bearophile wrote:


> but the memory used by the list isn't free even a little time later. 

Moreover won't ever be freed (from the operating system's view)
until the program ends. That's how C works and has nothing to do
with the kind of object that was allocated for. The only thing that
a free() operation is required to do is to make the freed
memory available for allocation within the same program.

Istvan.


From wenshengwang at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 15:40:42 2004
From: wenshengwang at gmail.com (ws Wang)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 12:40:42 -0800
Subject: MySQLdb problem with mod_python, please help
References: <7b22037d.0411262345.dcff5bb@posting.google.com>
	<313b0qF36dhk7U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7b22037d.0411301240.53b6dc2d@posting.google.com>

Damjan <gdamjan at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<313b0qF36dhk7U1 at uni-berlin.de>...
> > MySQLdb is working fine at command line, however when I tried to use
> > it with mod_python, it give me a "server not initialized" error.
> 
> Maybe its this problem?
> http://www.modpython.org/FAQ/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq02.013.htp

yep! that's the culprit. 

I havent' recompile php, but by removing loadmodule php, mod_python+mysql worked.

Thank you very much Damjan.


From exarkun at divmod.com  Wed Nov 17 10:43:52 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:43:52 GMT
Subject: how do I read a series of pickled objects from a socket?
In-Reply-To: <20041116205506.22904.qmail@web21205.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041117154352.27631.836308475.divmod.quotient.1294@ohm>

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:55:06 -0800 (PST), Ryan Grow <ryangrow at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hi,
> 
> I am trying to figure out the correct and most
> reliable way to read a series of pickled objects from
> a socket.
> I've found examples that do something like this:
> 
> while 1:
>    data = conn.recv(500)
>    obj = pickle.loads(data)
>    # do stuff with object
> 
> I don't think the above example would work for my
> application. The above example might work if the
> server never expects to get more than one object on
> the socket at a time. 
> 
> The server I'm writing will get a series of objects so
> it will need to know where each pickled object ends in
> the stream so it knows where to start reading the next
> object from.
> 
> Is there a correct way to identify the terminator of a
> pickled object? Is there a standard and correct way
> for the pickle module to easily read pickled objects
> from a socket?
>

  The above approach has several problems.  The most obvious of these are that it is unbelievably insecure, anyone who can connect to the server can cause it to execute arbitrary code, and that it lacks the necessary buffering code to make the right bytes actually show up in the right place.
 
  Instead of creating your own, you may wish to investigate an existing remote object protocol.  Python has quite a group of them.  One reasonable starting place is the "Perspective Broker" section of http://twistedmatrix.com/documents/current/howto/

  Jp


From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Thu Nov  4 09:05:30 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 15:05:30 +0100
Subject: Should I learn Python?
In-Reply-To: <624a388a.0411030512.3cf84547@posting.google.com>
References: <624a388a.0411021328.5ac41f4c@posting.google.com>
	<418807d0$0$19691$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<624a388a.0411030512.3cf84547@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <418a370d$0$7210$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Sam wrote:
> So you're saying, in order to write smart, clean, well structured,
> readable code, and have fun doing so, I'm going to have to drop PHP
> and use Python?

Err... You might not have notice, but this was enclosed in a <troll> tag !-)

You can of course write smart, clean, well structured, readable code in 
PHP - it's just that's it's easier and more fun (IMVHO) to do so in Python.

> I'm not really interested in finding a replacement for PHP, it works
> just fine for me.
> 
> I apologize for not phrasing my questions clearly, I wasn't looking
> for critisisms of PHP or why I shouldn't use it. 

I apologize for being a troll.

> What i'm really
> after, is given that I use PHP to develop sites currently, what types
> of situations would/could i use Python in web development? 

Well, there's no exact answer to this question. It's not a matter of raw 
functionnalities, PHP has it all (or almost, but well...). What Python 
has to offer is :
- the language itself, which is IMHO cleaner, smarter and more fun
- frameworks or application servers like Zope, Twisted, Nevow etc

Zope is somewhat not easy to 'get into', but it's worth the effort, and 
you can experience productivity gain even on the first project (well... 
I did at least).


> Is there a
> point when learning Python, that I'll say to myself "why use php?".

Depends on you. I personnally still use PHP for quick&dumb stuffs like 
includes, simple forms etc., cause Python itself would not buy me 
anything for such things and using Zope would be overkill.


> Thanks
You're welcome (and please forgive my trollness)
Bruno



From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil  Sun Nov  7 09:26:45 2004
From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Lou Pecora)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 09:26:45 -0500
Subject: Installed MacPython 10.3 Addons - Can't find Modules,
	even standard ones.
Message-ID: <pecora-03E3B5.09264507112004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>

I upgraded to Panther a month ago and just upgraded to MacPython 10.3 
Addons (as per Jack Jansen's page - thanks, Jack).

But now my programs can't even find standard modules.  from Numeric 
import *  brings up the error window:  Can't find module Numeric.  Even 
trig functions sine and cosine generate the same type of error.  I've 
looked over the FAQ and can't see any answers (maybe I missed 
something).   I'm guessing this is a Path problem, but I'm stumped.  I 
have PYTHONPATH set to some of my modules (which seems to work), but not 
sure what to do about standard stuff.

Any clues appreciated.  Thanks.

-- Lou Pecora  (my views are my own)

P.S. I posted this on Python-Mac-SIG email list, too.  Sorry if you are seeing it again.


From syd.diamond at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 20:09:53 2004
From: syd.diamond at gmail.com (syd)
Date: 1 Nov 2004 17:09:53 -0800
Subject: general class functions
Message-ID: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>

In my project, I've got dozens of similar classes with hundreds of
description variables in each.  In my illustrative example below, I
have a Library class that contains a list of Nation classes.  In one
case, I might want a Library class with only Nations of with the
continent variable "Europe", and so I'll do something like
library.getContinent('Europe') which will return a Library() instance
with only European nations.  Similarly, I could also want a Library()
instance with only 'small' size nations.

My question follows: is there a way I can make a general function for
getting a subclass with my specific criteria?  For instance, can I
pass in an equivalence test or something like that?  I have hundreds
of variables like "nation", "continent", and so forth, and do want to
write a separate "get______" function for each.

This stumped everyone I work with.  Help would be greatly
appreciated!!

#!/usr/bin/python
class Library:
  def __init__(self,list=None):
    self.list=list
  def add(self,nation):
    try: self.list.append(nation)
    except: self.list=[nation]
  def defineNation(self,name,continent,size):
    nation=Library.Nation()
    nation.name=name
    nation.continent=continent
    nation.size=size
    self.add(nation)
  def getContinent(self,continent):
    library=Library()
    for nation in self.list:
      if nation.isContinent(continent)==True:
        library.add(nation)
    return library
  def getSize(self,size):
    library=Library()
    for nation in self.list:
      if nation.isSize(size)==True:
        library.add(nation)
    return library
  def getNameList(self):
    outList=[]
    for nation in self.list:
      outList.append(nation.name)
    return outList
  class Nation:
    def __init__(self,name=None,continent=None,size=None):
      self.name=name # eg, Spain
      self.continent=continent # eg, Europe
      self.size=size # eg, medium
    def isContinent(self,continent):
      if self.continent==continent: return True
      else: return False    def isSize(self,size):
      if self.size==size: return True
      else: return False

library=Library()
library.defineNation('Spain','Europe','medium')
library.defineNation('USA','NorthAmerica','large')
library.defineNation('Luxembourg','Europe','small')
library.defineNation('Portugal','Europe','medium')

print library.getNameList()
print library.getContinent('Europe').getNameList()
print library.getContinent('Europe').getSize('small').getNameList()


From davidf at sjsoft.com  Tue Nov 23 13:52:29 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:52:29 +0200
Subject: Pure Python JPEG parser
In-Reply-To: <cnsk9a$gv8$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
References: <6r6pp018glonqu2kqeau5ru9nhfj9fpchv@4ax.com><419d002e$1@nntp0.pdx.net>	<cnmtud$3rm$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
	<mailman.6688.1101118194.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cnsk9a$gv8$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
Message-ID: <co00td$i26$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

David Fraser wrote:
> Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> 
>> David Fraser wrote:
>>
>>> It *did* make me think "I wish there was some Pure Python 
>>> image-handling code". It seems like the C linkage is mainly required 
>>> for image formatting handling - I couldn't find any JPEG 
>>> reading/writing code in Pure Python ... would be nice :-)
>>
>>
>> and incredibly slow.  PIL uses C for a reason.
>>
> 
> I've recently discovered you can use the EXIF module to read thumbnails 
> that are embedded in a JPEG or TIFF file without having to parse all the 
> JPEG stuff. All I'm doing for my particular task is creating thumbnails 
> - I can imagine that this may be reasonably fast within Python.
> Even if it was slow, it wouldn't neccessarily have to be *incredibly* 
> slow :-)

I couldn't resist it... I found a C++ simple (and imperfect) JPEG parser 
(http://www.codeproject.com/bitmap/TonyJpegLib.asp) and converted it by 
hand to pure Python ...
It can basically decode most JPEG files and then output the result as a BMP.
Not surprisingly, it's fairly slow. Using Psyco can speed it up.
Here's a table of a brief test, image size and execution time under 
Standard Python and Psyco running on my Athlon
Image Size          |  Standard Python  |  Psyco
photo, 2048 x 1536  |  32 minutes       |  46 seconds
cartoon, 604 x 446  |  16 seconds       |  4 seconds

I would guess that the algorithms being designed for C is a major 
factor, and that doing some simple recoding would speed it up a fair bit.

I've put the code at http://davidf.sjsoft.com/files/pyjpeg/
I wrote a basic BMP format handler as well that the test handler 
requires so that's there too.

Note 1: I am only beginning to understand JPEG from converting the code 
:-) And the original C++ code doesn't convert the image perfectly, it 
has plenty of smudges which my Python code faithfully reproduces

Note 2: The code is horribly ugly for Python code

Anyone welcome to clean and speed it up...

David


From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Tue Nov 30 09:25:50 2004
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:25:50 GMT
Subject: SOAPpy/ZSI/Twisted SOAP over stdin/stdout?
Message-ID: <xqxy8gjbehd.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

Normally the SOAP Servers are designed to take control of a port and
run their own sockets via inheritance from SocktServer.

But under inetd and xinetd, the port is controlled elsewhere and the
service just gets the stdin/stdout. I need to configure (or tweak) one
of the SOAP servers to use that connection.

Has anyone done this with any of the above named SOAP servers?
Recommmendations or hints if I try it myself?




-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
Phone: (425) 294-4718


From brion at pobox.com  Tue Nov 16 03:41:13 2004
From: brion at pobox.com (Brion Vibber)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 00:41:13 -0800
Subject: Identifying bundles in MacOS X
In-Reply-To: <Michael.J.Fromberger-252D87.23144415112004@localhost>
References: <Michael.J.Fromberger-2CA6CC.17042111112004@localhost>
	<2vt7veF2nues7U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<Michael.J.Fromberger-252D87.23144415112004@localhost>
Message-ID: <2vtsp6F2nlt2cU1@uni-berlin.de>

Michael J. Fromberger wrote:
> Actually, Apple's developer documentation seems to imply that there is a 
> "bundle bit" in the Finder info (or possibly the extended Finder info) 
> for directories, and that if this bit is set, the Finder will treat the 
> folder as a bundle.

It's worse than that... the bundle bit _might_ or _might not_ matter, 
since it's not always present, and some extensions are known or not 
or... ugh.

Fortunately, it should be possible to get this information out of Launch 
Services instead of replicating all the same checks: one of the flags 
bit it can return is 'kLSItemInfoIsPackage'. It seems to make the 
correct bundle/not bundle determination in my admittedly limited spot 
checking.

I'm not sure if there's a standard Python module to expose Launch 
Services, but here's a C snippet; use it as you like:

#include <Carbon/Carbon.h>
bool isFilePackage(const char *file) {
     CFStringRef path = CFStringCreateWithCString(
         NULL, file, kCFStringEncodingUTF8);

     CFURLRef url = CFURLCreateWithFileSystemPath(
         NULL, path, kCFURLPOSIXPathStyle, false);
     CFRelease(path);

     LSItemInfoRecord info;
     LSCopyItemInfoForURL(url, kLSRequestAllInfo, &info);
     CFRelease(url);

     return 0 != (info.flags & kLSItemInfoIsPackage);
}

(error checking snipped for brevity)

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


From grante at visi.com  Tue Nov  9 12:26:03 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 09 Nov 2004 17:26:03 GMT
Subject: sockets: How to know when your data is sent
References: <f00811ba.0411090653.5f6d1d29@posting.google.com>
	<4190e27f$0$95596$a1866201@visi.com>
	<K4k*FXdzq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Message-ID: <4190fdab$0$87168$a1866201@visi.com>

On 2004-11-09, Sion Arrowsmith <siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

>>> When I use the send function, it will happily send a buffer of
>>> a megabyte and more in one shot. But of course, the data is
>>> still in the network buffer...  [ ... ] The problem is, how
>>> can I know when it's done?
>>
>>Under Linux, there is no way to tell.  IIRC, there's no way to
>>tell under BSD either.  I actually wrote some kernel mode code
>>once upon a time to provide an ioctl() that I could call from
>>user space to find out when the data I had written to a socket
>>was actually sent.
>
> I may well be missing the point of the problem here, but wouldn't
> just turning TCP_NODELAY on guarantee that send() won't return
> until the last ACK has returned?

Nope.  Send returns as soon as the the data is copied to a a
kernel-space buffer.  TCP_NODELAY has no effect on that. It
only changes the stack's behavior as it's taking data from that
buffer and putting it on the wire.  Eventually, the TCP window
will fill up, and after than the tx buffer will fill up, and
after that, send will block.  There's no practical way to
predict the size of either the TCP window or the tx buffer.
There's also no practical way to determine how much data is
still waiting to be acked (unless you want to do kernel
hacking).

> And if you're not using TCP:
>
>>The way to tell that data has been sent is to use an
>>application-level protocol that acknowleges the data transferr.
>
> applies in spades if you care about reliability.

Unfortunately, many people who write network applications (and
protocols) make all sorts of bizarre assumptions, and somebody
ends up jumping through hoops later to try to fix things when
those assumptions turn out to be wrong. :/

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I wonder if I should
                                  at               put myself in ESCROW!!
                               visi.com            


From lynn at crazedimaginations.net  Sat Nov 20 19:02:42 2004
From: lynn at crazedimaginations.net (Lynn)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 16:02:42 -0800
Subject: stopping the sound server in PySol code -- how?
References: <iqAnd.69632$SW3.42915@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <zWQnd.72116$SW3.58481@fed1read01>

Lynn wrote:

> I have a SuSe 9.1 linux box (although this isn't a new issue) with
> reasonably up to date everything.  When I run PySol, it grabs the sound
> system in a rude and complete way.
> 
> I don't listen to sound and I NEED my sound system available even if PySol
> is running.
> 
> Does anyone have a simple way of ripping the sound functionality our of
> PySol?  I've not enough of a python programmer to deal with this.
> Everything I've tried has just generated a ton of errors.
> 

Solved.  Not elegant, but solved.

I found several places in the scripts where tests for the presense of
pysolsoundserver were being made.  And a couple more places where the
option for sound was being tested.  The test returns what ever it returns,
but I just force the answer to always be "failed" and "nosound."

I think there were five places to change an assignment statement.  

Thanks to everyone for your responses.  It helped.  I learned more about
python than I intended.  And that can't be bad. :)

-- 
Peace, Love and Absolute Pleasure
Crazed Imaginations RHPS cast
www.crazedimaginations.net


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 10 13:02:33 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 18:02:33 GMT
Subject: Learning curve - was: Re: Tutorials on Windows GUI programming
	with
References: <oP_jd.6307$Km6.159982@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<mailman.6158.1100012138.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmqmdc$rnk$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>
Message-ID: <419251df.110591442@news.oz.net>

On 9 Nov 2004 15:06:20 GMT, mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu (Mark Jackson) wrote:

>Gerhard Haering <gh at ghaering.de> writes:
>> 
>> --cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> Content-Disposition: inline
>> 
>> On Tue, Nov 09, 2004 at 08:47:08AM -0600, Larry Bates wrote:
>> > [...] the learning curve > is pretty steep.
>> 
>> Anybody care to explain the term "learning curve" to me?
>> 
>> I'd assume that you have time on the x-axis, and knowledge on the
>> y-axis. So a steep curve would mean that you know much in short time.
>
>One would think so, but. . .
>
>> But that doesn't seem to be how the terms steep/flat learning curve is
>> used :-S
>
>Evidently it's
>
>          |
>          |
>          |
>          |
>Effort    |
>Required  |
>          |
>          |
>          |___________________
>                Capability
>
IMO it's more like

 
      Capability level
           ^
    Guru --+
           |            __
    Pro  --+           /x
           |          |xx
           |      ___/xxx
Useful Wkr-+     /xxxxxxx
           |  __/ xxxxxxx
  Newbie --+ /    xxxxxxx
           |/_    xxxxxxx
           +------+------+-----------> Time
           ^      ^      ^
           |      |      |
          Job    Start Project
         Start  Useful Deadline
                 Work
 
I.e., if you have a near deadline and have to learn a lot
in order to produce the required work (x), then d<capability>/dt
is the slope of the learning curve, and it will have to be steep.

Whether one has the horsepower for rapid ascent is another matter,
but the fun in python is a good fuel additive ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jsbenson at bensonsystems.com  Sun Nov 21 14:16:48 2004
From: jsbenson at bensonsystems.com (John Benson)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:16:48 GMT
Subject: The Microsoft Platform Ahead by David Platt;
	thoughts about Python and Zope
Message-ID: <AQ5od.24563$6q2.12650@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>

Hi, I've been reading the above-titled book and it looks like some major 
Python and Zope features have been cherry-picked for pushing down into .NET, 
like application memory management (Python interpreter), and prefabricated 
website user management (Zope).

I know that these didn't originate with Python and Zope, and also that .NET 
adds extra Microsoft-specific goodies. However, the real possibility is that 
the Microsoft-centricity of .NET may diminish in time when VB.NET/C# 
/ASP.NET provide an attractive multiplatform alternative to Python and Zope 
or other content-management/portal/web service frameworks.

The question I'd like to pose is:

Will the open-source web service frameworks suffer the same fate as the 
Netscape browser?

The most likely scenario I see is that Python will remain important as a 
standalone language and one of the Microsoft CLR (Common Language Runtime) 
language alternatives (like VB.NET and C#) but that great frameworks (like 
Zope and Twisted) will be crowded out as Microsoft appropriates and 
repackages their functionality. Comments?

The one opportunity for Python and the open-source frameworks to survive and 
thrive is that Microsoft has targeted XML Web Services and authentication as 
basic functionality in .NET. That is, as it currently understands them. The 
admission in the book that Web Services are in their infancy leaves open the 
possibility that Microsoft may be playing catch-up with smaller and more 
agile frameworks in this area until the technology matures. Please forgive 
the oxymoron. It is probable that no computer technology matures: it either 
evolves or dies, or hangs on in the living death of legacy maintenance.)




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Nov  9 13:51:13 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 12:51:13 -0600
Subject: sh: test: argument expected and os.environ II
In-Reply-To: <200411091823.iA9INua4024825@relay.uva.es>
References: <200411091823.iA9INua4024825@relay.uva.es>
Message-ID: <20041109185113.GG3567@unpythonic.net>

Please post your messages as replies, rather than as new threads.  When
I answered your question about SHELL, I had no idea you were trying to
solve some other problem.

> The message error 'sh: test: argument expected' comes from the sentence:  
> energy = atoms.GetPotentialEnergy()   
> in the python script I am running. Could be that this sentence is always 
> invoking somehow the Bourne shell?   

Since 'atoms.GetPotentialEnergy()' seems to refer to some class that is
not a part of Python itself, perhaps you should ask on a list for that
package.  If this is the package known as "ASE" (that's what a google
search gives me) then the mailing list you should try may be
    http://listserv.fysik.dtu.dk/mailman/listinfo/campos

Jeff
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Nov 21 16:07:03 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:07:03 -0500
Subject: thread; interrupt_main() doesn't seem to work?
In-Reply-To: <m3pt27qde5.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
References: <m3pt27qde5.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
Message-ID: <Bt7od.1765$QR.452@lakeread01>

Jerry Sievers wrote:

> Fellow Pythonists; According to the docs
> 
> +-----------------+
> |interrupt_main(|)|
> +-----------------+
> 
>           Raise a KeyboardInterrupt in the main thread. A subthread can use
>      this function to interrupt the main thread. New in version 2.3.
> 
> Therefore, I was expecting this short test prog to run and then finish
> with the KeyboardInterrupt exception at the bottom in the pause
> routine.  It doesn't stop there but I can do a manual keyboard
> interrupt and get the expected bactrace and program exit.
> 
> ---
> 
> from signal import pause
> from socket import socket
> from thread import start_new_thread, interrupt_main
> from time import sleep
> 
> def go():
>     print 'go'
>     while f.readline():
>         print 'line'
>     print 'empty'
>     interrupt_main()
>     print 'done'
> 
> s = socket()
> s.connect(('localhost', 80))
> f = s.makefile()
> print 'connected'
> 
> start_new_thread(go, ())
> 
> sleep(2)
> s.shutdown(2)
> pause()  # expecting to get KeyboardInterrupt exception here
> 
> ---
> 
> connected
> go
> empty
> done
> ....hangs here as if interrupt_main() does nothing.
> 
> Manual Control-C required to wake up from pause() and exit.
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "test.py", line 23, in ?
>     pause()  # expecting to get KeyboardInterrupt exception here
> KeyboardInterrupt
> 
> Python 2.3.3 on RedHat 7x.
> 
> Wondering what's wrong?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
Perhaps the main thread has to actually be running to respond to the 
raised exception. Did you try a shortish sleep() instead of the pause? 
That would at least test this theory.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From niels_bohr at uol.com.br  Thu Nov 18 21:28:05 2004
From: niels_bohr at uol.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio?= Mendes)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 00:28:05 -0200
Subject: Exponential Notation and integers
In-Reply-To: <Du-dncB7_qqGqADcRVn-tg@speakeasy.net>
References: <mailman.6569.1100821388.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Du-dncB7_qqGqADcRVn-tg@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <1100831285.9260.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Em Qui, 2004-11-18 ?s 15:49 -0800, Erik Max Francis escreveu:
> Timothy Fitz wrote:
> 
> > Why are all numberical literals in exponential notation floats? To me
> > it is counter-intuitive for 1e3 to behave so fundamentally different
> > from 1000.
> 
> Probably primarily by convention.  Most language use computerized 
> scientific notation to represent floating point numbers, not integers. 
> It makes sense, after all:  should 1.344e3 be an int, but 1.344e2 be a 
> float?
> 
As far as readbility is concerned, some languages provide the 1_000_000
syntax (1000000 is just too hard to read). Is there any plans to add
this to python?

Thanks,
Fabio

> -- 
> Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
> San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
>    I'll have to get over this sooner or later. Why not now?
>    -- Louis Wu


From mauriceling at acm.org  Sat Nov  6 18:51:51 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 10:51:51 +1100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6023.1099784667.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>	<mailman.5999.1099743679.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.6023.1099784667.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418D6397.8020906@acm.org>


> Maybe as the old-timers go off, the next batch of old-timers feel that 
> it is too much to handle. Nobody requires anyone to answer to all 
> threads.....
> 
Nevertheless I still have to thank Alex for his story on Plato and the 
studetn who questioned the validity of studying geometry before 
philosophy (in "reverse Jython" thread).

maurice


From graham.fawcett at gmail.com  Tue Nov  2 15:44:52 2004
From: graham.fawcett at gmail.com (Graham  Fawcett)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 12:44:52 -0800
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
	<du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<4187b7a1$0$2383$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<QtOdnVh_Pq7-SRrcRVn-2g@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <1099428292.622129.83160@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> And it should be noted I can already install Python packages with
> dependencies by running a command such as "apt-get install
> python2.3-gnome2", for example.

Great point. Collectively, apt-get, yum et. al. and the underlying
package models will get far more development time, more polishing and
more real-world use than a PyPAN ever would.

Perhaps what Python needs is for Win32 to grow a working apt-get...;-)
-- G



From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 15 06:12:08 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 03:12:08 -0800
Subject: simple recursion help
References: <Gpyed.320058$bp1.6526@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<VUyed.320061$bp1.273357@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<mailman.5375.1098565018.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm4uqv.nmgjbj1vt0spjN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0410231916.450f67d@posting.google.com>
	<a5uxtxctfpx7.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0411150312.a2bdc5d@posting.google.com>

Thorsten Kampe <thorsten at thorstenkampe.de> wrote:
> * Hung Jung Lu (2004-10-24 04:16 +0100)
> > (1) "Variation" is the same as "permutation".
> 
> Sorry, no.

Sorry, yes. 

Just to add some more information, see also:

(1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combinatorics

(2) Download user manuals from any major scientific calculator maker
(HP, Casio, Texas Instruments, Sharp, etc.), and you will find them
all using the term "permutation" instead of "variation". E.g.:

http://www.hp.com/calculators/docs/guides/33sProbFact.pdf

You can promote your preferred term ("variation") as much as you want,
but to ignore the fact that the majority of people use the term
"permutation" is a bit strange, to say the least.

Hung Jung


From mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net  Sun Nov  7 21:01:05 2004
From: mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net (Jean Brouwers)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 02:01:05 GMT
Subject: interning strings
References: <418e1e69$0$15438$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
	<cmldpr$p0q$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<418eab10$0$13356$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <071120041801483184%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>


A while ago, we faced a similar issue, trying to reduce total memory
usage and runtime of one of our Python applications which parses very
large log files (100+ MB).

One particular class is instantiated many times and changing just that
class to use __slots__ helped quite a bit.  More details are here

<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-May/220513.html>

/Jean Brouwers
 ProphICy Semiconductor, Inc.



In article <418eab10$0$13356$afc38c87 at news.optusnet.com.au>, Mike
Thompson wrote:

> [snip very useful explanation]
> 
> > 
> > By the way, why would you want to mess with these implementation details?
> > Use the == operator to compare strings and be happy ever after :-)
> > 
> 
> '==' won't help me, I'm afraid.
> 
> I need to improve the speed and memory footprint of an application which 
> reads in a very large XML document.
> 
> Some elements in the incoming documents can be filtered out, so I've 
> written my own SAX handler to extract just what I want. All the same, 
> the content being read in is substantial.
> 
> So, to further reduce memory footprint, my SAX handler tries to manually 
> intern (using dicts of strings) a lot of the duplicated content and 
> attributes coming from the XML documents. Also, I use the SAX feature 
> 'feature_string_interning' to hopefully intern the strings used for 
> attribute names etc.
> 
> Which is all working fine, except that now, as a final process, I'd like 
> to understand interning a bit more.
> 
>  From your explanation there seems to be no language rules, just 
> implementation accidents.  And none of those will be particularly 
> helpful in my case.
> 
> However, I still think I'm going to try using the builtin 'intern' 
> rather than my own dict cache. That may provide an advantage, even if it 
> doesn't work with unicode.
> 
> --
> Mike


From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Mon Nov  8 07:48:36 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 12:48:36 GMT
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5998.1099742953.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncouqp0.mcv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>

>  Looked at boost::python?

Thanks a lot!

That's a very neat tool (like everything from Boost ;-) ),
and pretty close to what I was envisioning,
except that one still has to sort of manually transform header files into
BOOST_PYTHON_MODULE declarations ...

Cheers,
Gab.


-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| There are works which wait,                                             |
| and which one does not understand for a long time; [...]                |
| for the question often arrives a terribly long time after the answer.   |
|                                                         (Oscar Wilde)   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From robin at reportlab.com  Mon Nov  8 06:42:46 2004
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 11:42:46 +0000
Subject: pep 8 converter?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6109.1099911938.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <418F503F.9050409@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
	<mailman.6109.1099911938.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418F5BB6.3000807@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

Gerhard Haering wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 08, 2004 at 10:53:51AM +0000, Robin Becker wrote:
> 
>>Is there a tool that checks/imposes PEP 8 (ie the right core coding 
>>style?). It seems that bugfix patches which miss on style are rejected out 
>>of hand. [...]
> 
> 
> I doubt that's the case. Care to provide an example?
> 
> -- Gerhard


Date: 2004-11-07 14:32
Sender: *******
Logged In: YES
user_id=31392

The formatting of this patch is wrong.  There is a long line
(>80 chars) and missing whitespace around commas, operators,
etc.

-- 
Robin Becker


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Sat Nov 20 11:24:28 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 08:24:28 -0800
Subject: stopping the sound server in PySol code -- how?
In-Reply-To: <UKCnd.69643$SW3.19216@fed1read01>
References: <iqAnd.69632$SW3.42915@fed1read01> <cnmqq0$l6n$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<zjCnd.69642$SW3.14459@fed1read01>
	<UKCnd.69643$SW3.19216@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <cnnr3t$84i$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Lynn wrote:
> Lynn wrote:
> 
> 
>>Robert Kern wrote:
> 
> 
>>It is via an RPM.  I think it's the one that came with SuSE 9.1.  It
>>installed pysolsoundserver.so.  I renamed that file to see if not finding
>>it would be enough.  But the script failed because it couldn't find it.
>>
>>I will try uninstalling the rpm and getting the PySol source.
>>
> 
> 
> Nope. If I run from the src (grabbed frm www.pysol.org)  I get this stack
> trace:
>  File "pysol.py", line 47, in ?
>     from main import main
>   File "/data/apps/pysol-4.82/src/main.py", line 48, in ?
>     from app import Application
>   File "/data/apps/pysol-4.82/src/app.py", line 54, in ?
>     from images import Images, SubsampledImages
>   File "/data/apps/pysol-4.82/src/images.py", line 47, in ?
>     from pysoltk import tkversion, loadImage, copyImage, createImage
>   File "/data/apps/pysol-4.82/src/pysoltk.py", line 81, in ?
>     exec "from " + m + " import *"
>   File "<string>", line 1, in ?
>   File "/data/apps/pysol-4.82/src/tk/soundoptionsdialog.py", line 44, in ?
>     from pysolaudio import pysolsoundserver
>   File "/data/apps/pysol-4.82/src/pysolaudio.py", line 44, in ?
>     import pysolsoundserver
> ImportError: No module named pysolsoundserver
> 
> If I strip out every instance of importing that module, it eventually dies
> with a tk box alerting me thatg the global pysolsoundserver is not defined.
> 
> I'm farther along than I've ever been though. :)

My version has

try:
     from Pysol import pysolsoundserver
except ImportError:
     pysolsoundserver = None

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Nov 17 17:41:49 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:41:49 -0600
Subject: thread, threading; how to kill a thread?
In-Reply-To: <u8y90f7ws.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
References: <m37jokwiqj.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>	<mailman.6508.1100724708.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<u8y90f7ws.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <419BD3AD.1040908@colorstudy.com>

David Bolen wrote:
> Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>(...)
>>Even if it messes things up and I have to restart the process at the
>>soonest possible time to clean up the problems, it would be nice to be
>>able to exit the process.  (...)
> 
> 
> I'm not positive, but os._exit() may at least let you get the process
> exited regardless of any thread states.

Indeed, sir, you are right!  Thanks.

I whipped up something to try to do the right thing (sys.exit), unless 
things go badly, then do the wrong thing (os._exit):

   http://svn.colorstudy.com/home/ianb/thread_die.py

In Webware we usually run the server so that if it exits with an error 
code of 3, the server gets restarted.  (In other setups you might always 
restart the server.)  Anyway, this way we could actually test if there 
were wedged threads, and restart the whole server if so.  At the same 
time, most resources should be properly freed.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  1 15:13:49 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 22:13:49 +0200
Subject: saved sys.path
References: <%Xmhd.29071$g4.544104@news2.nokia.com>
	<1gmkht7.1e1lg86qerk5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5765.1099319253.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gmlelr.q7q1rz5rc37oN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Eric S. Johansson <esj at harvee.org> wrote:
   ...
> one of the things I've been bothered with using Python for larger 
> applications is path manipulation.  For example, how does one create the
> search path necessary to find your own modules if you do not wish 
> pollute site-packages with your private code.
> 
> the path file looks like this might be a good solution in preference to
> modifying sys.path in your code.  Are there any scope or limitation 
> rules for this path modifier?  Can this modification be made specific to
> an application or is the new path visible to the entire world (which 
> reintroduces the namespace pollution problem).

The modifications to sys.path performed by .pth files are visible to all
applications.  A single application may (however it chooses to do so)
find out or determine a path it wants only for its own imports, and
prepend it to sys.path, during its startup (entry-point script).  On
Windows the popular choice is to stick stuff in the registry; on most
Unix-like systems "run-command files" are usually preferred.  The Mac
(Mac OS X) has an extra possibility, since "an application" is a
directory (with extension .app) and the Mac has its own conventions
about what is where inside that directory.  Python is not particularly
different, from the point of view of "where does an app find its own
configuration information", from most other languages.


Alex


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Tue Nov  2 14:24:08 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 14:24:08 -0500
Subject: Why is heapify linear?
In-Reply-To: <4186e5f9$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <4186cb77$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<mailman.5792.1099356329.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4186e5f9$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <1f7befae04110211241f3173b9@mail.gmail.com>

[Scott David Daniels]
> I stupidly took a simple look before posting, and a better look
> immediately after posting.  I feel really stupid for that and
> deserve the big clue stick whack.

I don't know -- it's not obvious that heapification can be done in
worst-case linear time, and indeed that wasn't realized at first.

> The "hand wave" on dict building is because I am still stuck in the
> sad old world where, when we said O(1), we meant "worst case linear."
> I am sure you remember those times.  The "expected-case" or "amortized-
> time" silent, rather than stated, still bothers me, not so much in an
> irritated way, as in a "my mind still doesn't notice" way.

I don't recall much consistency about this no matter how far back we
look,  For example, quicksort was always always described as an N log
N sorting method in my experience, despite that its worst case is
quadratic.  So I've always qualified O() claims with the intended
measure, unless min, max and mean are the same.  For example, finding
the smallest element in a list is O(n) regardless.  Since just finding
a minimum is O(n) on its own, it's initially surprising that
heapification is also O(n)!


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Sat Nov  6 09:28:08 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 15:28:08 +0100
Subject: Python OS
References: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmin1n$500$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Richard Blackwood wrote:

> Is it possible to prototype an operating system in Python?  If so, what
> would such a task entail? (i.e. How would one write a boot-loader in
> Python?)


There have been lengthy discussions on this subject in this group - google
is your friend. 

Generally spaeking, its not possible - as there is a fair amount of
low-level stuff to be progammed for interrupt routines and the like that
can not be done in python.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From grahamd at dscpl.com.au  Sun Nov 21 16:46:07 2004
From: grahamd at dscpl.com.au (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: 21 Nov 2004 13:46:07 -0800
Subject: Python with Apache 2.0
References: <89cc6e1f.0411190632.2976b3e1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <dc6f5c99.0411211346.7cfff50@posting.google.com>

changli_to at hotmail.com (Chang LI) wrote in message news:<89cc6e1f.0411190632.2976b3e1 at posting.google.com>...
> Does python support threads safely along with Apache 2.0 in web applications.

Yes, but the latest version of mod_python (3.1.3) has a couple of bugs
in it in relation to threads which can cause problems when using a
threaded MPM with Apache. No indication has been given as to when
they will be fixed so you should patch the bugs yourself for now.

You can find some details and the patches at:

  http://www.dscpl.com.au/projects/vampire/PATCHES

There is a discussion on the mod_python mailing list archives at:

  http://www.modpython.org/pipermail/mod_python/2004-October/thread.html

Look for the thread starting with "Udate python modules without restarting Apache".
It is this discussion which lead to the uncovering of the bugs.


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Nov 12 22:48:59 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:48:59 -0500
Subject: problem with "setup.py bdist --formats=zip"
In-Reply-To: <cn2mhg$476$1@nrc-news.nrc.ca>
References: <cn2mhg$476$1@nrc-news.nrc.ca>
Message-ID: <cn406e$bcp$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Humpdydum wrote:
> I would like to create a "binary" distribution for Windows, but in zip
> format, since the installer requires root access. 

Not sure what you mean here.  Windows doesn't have a "root" user,
though it has "Administrator".  Is that what you meant?  I believe
you'll find that the installer has an option to install for the
current user only, so that you don't have to be an Administrator
to do it.

-Peter


From exarkun at divmod.com  Thu Nov 25 21:30:42 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 02:30:42 GMT
Subject: Subclassing complex with computed arguments
In-Reply-To: <a86143fb.0411251430.50665acf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041126023042.17481.666337864.divmod.quotient.5906@ohm>

On 25 Nov 2004 14:30:18 -0800, pcolsen at comcast.net (Peter Olsen) wrote:
>I want to define a class "point" as a subclass of complex.  
> 
> When I create an instance 
> 
> sample = point(<arglist>) 
> 
> I want "sample" to "be" a complex number, but with its real and
> imaginary parts computed in point()'s __init__ function with their
> values based on the arglist.  I want to compute with point instances
> as though they were native complex numbers, but I want to be able to
> define some new methods and over-ride some of complex's existing ones.

  Something like this?

>>> class simple(complex):
...     def __new__(cls, real=0, imag=0):
...             return super(simple, cls).__new__(cls, real + 1, imag + 1)
...
>>> simple(3, 4)
(4+5j)
>>>

  The trick is that since complex instances are immutable, you need to change the initialization parameters before the instance is ever created.  __new__ is the hook for that.

  Jp


From fake at not-real.bogus  Tue Nov  9 23:48:54 2004
From: fake at not-real.bogus (Matt Garman)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 04:48:54 GMT
Subject: saving curses screen state (putwin() and getwin() again)
Message-ID: <slrncp37ds.9c2.fake@sewage.raw-sewage.fake>

I'm working on a curses-based application in Python.  I've
implemented what I call a "Chooser" (a fancy name for a menu):

        ---> 1. Choice 1 <---
             2. Choice 2     
             3. Choice 3     

So the user can use the arrow keys to change choices.  When he hits
enter, the screen is re-drawn with a new interface.  When that
interface is quit, the screen should return to the Chooser, exactly
as it was left.

So my strategy is to call putwin() before going to the new
interface, and call getwin() after returning from the previous
interface.

This works as described the *first* time, but subsequent calls to
getwin() return the window that was saved with the first call to
putwin().  I.e., it's as though only the first call to putwin() has
any effect.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Matt

-- 
Matt Garman
email at: http://raw-sewage.net/index.php?file=email


From f.geiger at vol.at  Sat Nov 20 10:37:36 2004
From: f.geiger at vol.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 16:37:36 +0100
Subject: wxPython: how to update a panel content/layout according to a
	variable content
References: <27a5ac50.0411190819.3ad36f15@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cnno7u$3c9$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>

wxWindow has Update and Refresh methods. You can override the one of your
wxPanel, where you can call all its children to update/refresh themselves.
wxPanel's update could be triggered by a timer event, mouse event  or
whatever.

I do such things preferably in timers owned by the widgets themselves.

HTH
Franz GEIGER



"Lo?c Mah?" <loic.mahe at free.fr> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:27a5ac50.0411190819.3ad36f15 at posting.google.com...
> Hello
>
> I have a problem to update the content of a wx.Panel already displayed
> after changing a variable, used to define the wx.Panel content.
>
> I have the following elements in my code:
>
> DataList: is a list containing some data
>
> CustomPanel: is a derived class of wx.Panel,
> it contains one sizer which contains a smaller panel for each
> element of the DataList list
>
>
> After having displayed CustomPanel on the screen, the elements in
> DataList change (after a user action like clicking on button)
>
> I would like to refresh the CustomPanel to take into account the
> changes of the DataList list
> Is there a kind of Refresh/Update function which could update the
> CustomPanel so
> that evry sizers and panles contained by this CustomPanel are redrawn
> according to the current value of DataList ?
> or do you have to write your own update/refresh method for Panel and
> Windows objects ?
> and are you obliged to detroy the CustomPanel  object and re-create a
> new one?
>
>
> I would appreciate any hint/reference to do this, and also a code
> sample if possible.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Lo?c




From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 19 09:33:44 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 06:33:44 -0800
Subject: returning unordered keyword arguments from a function (WAS: Are
	multiple return values really harmful?)
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.6511.1100727971.5135.python-list@python.org>	<8ef9bea6.0411180831.e44ae56@posting.google.com>	<e47nd.630528$8_6.343583@attbi_s04>
	<mailman.6562.1100809213.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xg8nd.107946$HA.41832@attbi_s01>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0411190633.4da78912@posting.google.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
> Fernando Perez wrote:
> > Steven Bethard wrote:
> >>>>> r = object(year=2004, month=11, day=18)
> > Given that the necessary class is literally a 3-liner, ...
> Even at 3 lines, do you really want to rewrite those every time you need 
> this functionality?  

I have written the one-liner "class Generic: pass" all too many times.
:)

Generic objects can be used to represent hierarchical data in tree
fashion. As I said, generic objects are also good for
pickling/serialization. We are talking about communication between
multiple applications, across time and/or space. Other representations
include dictionaries or XML. But you can tell that when it comes to
compactness and ease of use, generic objects are the way to go. In
fact, most common hierarchical data structures only need: (1) the
generic object, (2) list, (3) basic types (numbers and strings.)

It seems odd that there is no standard generic object in Python.

Actually, if one thinks outside Python, in prototypish languages,
generic objects are more fundamental. They are the building block of
everything else. You don't build your 3-liner generic object from
something else... all on the contrary, you build everything else from
your generic object.

The syntax "object(year=2004, month=11, day=18)" certainly is nice. I
wouldn't be surprised that somewhere, someone has already written some
programming language that uses this syntax for their fundamental
generic object.

> On the other hand, I usually find that in the few places where I have 
> used a record like this, I eventually replace the struct with a real 
> class...

This is true for single programs. It's true for function arguments or
outputs. In those places, generic objects are good as the quick and
easy way of using hierarchical data structure without the need of
formally defining a class. Once things deserve to be replaced by real
classes, they are replaced.

This is not true for pickling/serialization purpose. When you have
pickled data, you don't want to have to search for the definition of
the classes, which you or someone else may have written years ago. You
want to be able to unpickle/unserialize your data and use it, without
the need of class definition. Yes, dictionary can be used, but you:

(a) either use mydata['a']['b']['c']['d'] instead of mydata.a.b.c.d,
or

(b) have a class to convert dictionary-based back to object-based
(hence we come back to the problem: where is that code file of the
class that some guy wrote 7 years ago?)

If I have avoided anything more complicated than "class Generic:
pass", it's because this is a one-liner that I can remember how to
type anytime. :) Now, if in the language there is something standard,
even this trick won't be necessary. From all what I can see, "class
Generic: pass" will stay as the preferred choice for many people, for
a long time to come. Simplicity counts.

Hung Jung


From rganesan at myrealbox.com  Tue Nov 16 23:39:10 2004
From: rganesan at myrealbox.com (Ganesan R)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 10:09:10 +0530
Subject: Rounding curiosity
References: <20041116182254.6cb5a603.bartley9@pacbell.net>
	<mailman.6467.1100664818.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xkvhsm79gkcx.fsf@cisco.com>

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Peters <tim.peters at gmail.com> writes:

> What's wrong is that you haven't yet read the Python tutorial's
> appendix on floating-point issues.  That much is easily repaired
> <wink>:

>     http://docs.python.org/tut/node15.html

IMHO the documentation for round() function is misleading in this
respect. It reads

====
round(x[, n])
    Return the floating point value x rounded to n digits after the decimal
    point. If n is omitted, it defaults to zero. The result is a floating
    point number. Values are rounded to the closest multiple of 10 to the
    power minus n; if two multiples are equally close, rounding is done away
    from 0 (so. for example, round(0.5) is 1.0 and round(-0.5) is -1.0).
====

Something like, "Note that, since the floating point values cannot represent
decimal fractions exactly, the rounding will not be exact." should help.

Ganesan


From sam at three60.com  Tue Nov  2 16:28:22 2004
From: sam at three60.com (Sam)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 13:28:22 -0800
Subject: Should I learn Python?
Message-ID: <624a388a.0411021328.5ac41f4c@posting.google.com>

Hi, 
I have been developing sites and cms's for the past few years using
PHP and mysql. I've been interested in learning a new language and was
considering Python. I have a pretty decent grasp of OOP concepts (i
know, you're skeptical since I mentioned PHP). I don't have a formal
programming background, just learning as I go.

So, with that being said, here are some dumb questions.

1. What can I do with Python that I can't do with php? 

2. Do you use both PHP and Python in conjunction with each other?

3. In what way could I utilize Python to compliment existing sites or
apps built with PHP?

Thanks for any help.


From timh at zute.net  Wed Nov 17 04:08:42 2004
From: timh at zute.net (Tim Hoffman)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:08:42 +0800
Subject: psSerial: how to write a single byte value to the serial port?
In-Reply-To: <5a050156.0411170057.6c27a6a4@posting.google.com>
References: <5a050156.0411170057.6c27a6a4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <419b151b$1@news.highway1.com.au>

SoftwareTester wrote:
> http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/ 
> example shows how to write string to serial port.
> 
> 
> #Open port 0 at "9600,8,N,1", no timeout
> 
> 
>>>>import serial
>>>>ser = serial.Serial(0) #open first serial 
>>>>ser.write("hello") #write a string
>>>>ser.close() #close port
> 
> 
> how do i write a single byte value to the serial port?

mystring = "hello"
ser.write(mystring[0:1])

or

ser.write("h")

or

ser.write(chr(i))   # where 0<=i<=255

Is that what you where asking for ?

T


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Nov 26 17:52:37 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:52:37 -0800
Subject: network programming without goto (refactoring)
In-Reply-To: <roy-2D5E23.12225225112004@reader1.panix.com>
References: <mailman.6783.1101394437.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-2D5E23.12225225112004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <10qfcmta665kbeb@corp.supernews.com>

Roy Smith wrote:

>What you want to do is refactor this into a number of smaller functions, 
>each one encapsulating one piece of the puzzle.  To start, I'd build a 
>function which handled the multiple connection attempts to a given host.  
>Maybe something like this:
>
>#
># Untested code -- this is just to give you some ideas
># and get you thinking in the right direction
>#
>def connectWithRetries (host, port, retryLimit):
>   attempts = 0
>   while attempts < retryLimit:
>      try:
>         connection = zoom.Connection (host, port)
>         return connection
>      except ConnectionError:
>         attempts += 1
>   throw ConnectionError
>  
>

IMO, Roy's advice here is spot-on, with one minor technical detail.  In 
Python, exceptions use 'raise', not 'throw'...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Nov 30 09:51:01 2004
From: autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Robson)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:51:01 +0000
Subject: weird behaviour of "0 in [] is False"
References: <pan.2004.11.30.12.57.59.582543@nospam.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <coi1hc$9go$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>

Sylvain Thenault wrote:

>>>> l = []
>>>> 0 in (l is False)

(l is False) is not a tuple or list, it's a boolean value.

> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File?"<stdin>",?line?1,?in??
> TypeError: iterable argument required
>>>> (0 in l) is False
> True

0 in l is False becuase l is empty, so it's False is False which is true,
(except in Intercal probably and Visual C++)

>>>> 0 in l is False
> False

l is False is False because l is not the value false though it has a false
value (err.....)

Okay. 

l != False because it's not the displayed value false

but if not l would evaluated to true because [] is a false equivalent.

0 in False .... okay.... this should be an error ..... something to do with
the equivalence confusion of what False is ?





From exarkun at divmod.com  Mon Nov 15 10:22:41 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 15:22:41 GMT
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
In-Reply-To: <slrncph5k0.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <20041115152241.20649.1215409062.divmod.quotient.5880@ohm>

On 15 Nov 2004 11:44:31 GMT, Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote:
>Op 2004-11-15, Peter Hansen schreef <peter at engcorp.com>:
> > Antoon Pardon wrote:
> >> AFAIU the Queue module doesn't block on a full/empty queue when
> >> a timeout is specified but goes in a loop sleeping and periodically
> >> checking whether place/items are available. With signals that
> >> can be sent to a thread the queue could just set an alarm and
> >> then block as if no timeout value was set and either unblock
> >> when place/items are available or get signalled when the timeout
> >> period is over.
> >
> > I'm fairly sure that the Queue uses an internal Event
> > (or REvent?) to signal when space or a new item is
> > available, so I believe your description (and possibly
> > conclusion) above is wrong.  There should be no
> > "periodical check", as that would imply polling.  Check
> > the source if you're interested.
> 
> I did check the source, I just didn't study it carefully
> and got my understanding mostly from the comments.
> But anyway here is the relevant part and IMO we have
> a polling loop here.
> 

  You are correct, but why does it matter?  The Queue class works.  Why should Python be changed in a difficult and complex way to... make the Queue class continue to work?  If you can give other examples of the uses you have in mind, that might help convince people of the value of this change.  But be sure you give examples of things that don't already work.

  Jp


From ossix at ossix.net  Sat Nov 13 19:20:35 2004
From: ossix at ossix.net (steven alyari)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:20:35 -0700
Subject: IMAP4 example in docs causes memory error for me (OS X 10.3, 
Message-ID: <0142BE46-35D3-11D9-800B-000A95DBE2DA@ossix.net>

John,

I have the same problem with OS X and Python 2.3 standard.

the code:

import getpass, imaplib

M = imaplib.IMAP4("mail.host")
M.login(getpass.getuser(), getpass.getpass())
M.select( )
typ, data = M.search(None, 'ALL')

mydir = "./msgs"

i = 0
for num in data[0].split( ):
         print str(i) + " ..."
         typ, data = M.fetch(num, '(RFC822)')
         w = file(mydir + "/" + str(i) + ".msg","w")
         w.write(data[0][1])
         w.close( )
         i+=1
M.logout( )

one the 115th message i get this error:

*** malloc: vm_allocate(size=4755456) failed (error code=3)
*** malloc[1471]: error: Can't allocate region
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "imap.py", line 13, in ?
     typ, data = M.fetch(num, '(RFC822)')
   File  
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/ 
python2.3/imaplib.py", line 417, in fetch
     typ, dat = self._simple_command(name, message_set, message_parts)
   File  
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/ 
python2.3/imaplib.py", line 1000, in _simple_command
     return self._command_complete(name, self._command(name, *args))
   File  
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/ 
python2.3/imaplib.py", line 830, in _command_complete
     typ, data = self._get_tagged_response(tag)
   File  
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/ 
python2.3/imaplib.py", line 931, in _get_tagged_response
     self._get_response()
   File  
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/ 
python2.3/imaplib.py", line 893, in _get_response
     data = self.read(size)
   File  
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/ 
python2.3/imaplib.py", line 231, in read
     return self.file.read(size)
   File  
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/ 
python2.3/socket.py", line 301, in read
     data = self._sock.recv(recv_size)
MemoryError

Thanks,
Steven Alyari

>
>
> I am running the IMAP4 example in the documentation:
>
> http://www.python.org/doc/lib/imap4-example.html
>
> with two small changes (different username, comment out print
> statement). The inbox I am accessing is 42 MB and has 80-someodd
> messages, so the messages are fairly big (all of them have
> attachments). When I run this program, I get a malloc error. Now, I'm
> really new to python programming, but it was my understanding that
> memory management was not something I had to explicitly do. I'd
> appreciate some help in understanding what I've done wrong.
>
> If I watch memory usage via "top", the memory usage (vmem) goes up to
> 3.5 GB, drops back down to a few tens of megabytes, then rises to 3.5
> GB or so again, then crashes. (Backtrace is appended at the end of
> this message.) It seems odd to me that python should require GB of
> memory to read a 40 MB mailbox.
>
> I also installed python 2.3.3 via fink and was able to reproduce the
> error in the same way.
>
> Machine / python information:
>
> [JDO:~/Documents/src/vm2imap] jowens% uname -a
> Darwin JDO.local 7.5.0 Darwin Kernel Version 7.5.0: Thu Aug  5
> 19:26:16 PDT 2004; root:xnu/xnu-517.7.21.obj~3/RELEASE_PPC  Power
> Macintosh powerpc
> [JDO:~/Documents/src/vm2imap] jowens% python -V
> Python 2.3.3
>
> JDO
>
> ==
>
> *** malloc: vm_allocate(size=7426048) failed (error code=3)
> *** malloc[17319]: error: Can't allocate region
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "minimal.py", line 8, in ?
>     typ, data = M.fetch(num, '(RFC822)')
>   File "/sw/lib/python2.3/imaplib.py", line 417, in fetch
>     typ, dat = self._simple_command(name, message_set, message_parts)
>   File "/sw/lib/python2.3/imaplib.py", line 1000, in _simple_command
>     return self._command_complete(name, self._command(name, *args))
>   File "/sw/lib/python2.3/imaplib.py", line 830, in _command_complete
>     typ, data = self._get_tagged_response(tag)
>   File "/sw/lib/python2.3/imaplib.py", line 931, in
> _get_tagged_response
>     self._get_response()
>   File "/sw/lib/python2.3/imaplib.py", line 893, in _get_response
>     data = self.read(size)
>   File "/sw/lib/python2.3/imaplib.py", line 231, in read
>     return self.file.read(size)
>   File "/sw/lib/python2.3/socket.py", line 301, in read
>     data = self._sock.recv(recv_size)
> MemoryError
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From len-1 at telus.net  Wed Nov 24 13:04:03 2004
From: len-1 at telus.net (Lenard Lindstrom)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:04:03 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.23.07.09.08.229463@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<zn18e7pm.fsf@telus.net> <30ijkhF31dg9sU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <oehnyvka.fsf@telus.net>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> writes:

> Lenard Lindstrom wrote:
> > So Delphi is definitely not BASIC-derived. It is BASIC-like in that various
> > basic dialects, including QBasic, came to support the structured programming
> > that Pascal was designed from the beginning to teach.
> 
> So it would be more accurate to say that those Basic
> dialects are, in those respects, Pascal-like...
> 
By saying Delphi is BASIC-like I just mean that many languages have come
to resemble each, having adopted many of the same features. But it was
definitely Basic that did most of the adopting. So yes, more precisely,
Basic has become more Pascal-like. I was just giving the patent applicants
a minor benefit of a doubt.

Lenard Lindstrom
<len-l at telus.net>


From mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net  Wed Nov 17 23:43:38 2004
From: mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net (Jean Brouwers)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 04:43:38 GMT
Subject: Custom memory manager
References: <aOydnfnY_fMPawbcRVn-3A@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <171120042044309678%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>


We have done some experiments with the memory manager in Python 2.3+. 
Not to replace it but to obtain more detailed and accurate statistics
for the memory usage.

One thing to keep in in mind is that not all memory in a Python
application is managed by the Python memory manager.  Objects may be
allocated by direct calls to malloc() and then passed to the Python
memory manager to be freed.  The Python memory manager handles that
scenario properly.

While replacing the Python manager is possible, be prepared for some
surprises.  It all depends on the actual modules used in your Python
application and how those modules allocate objects.

/Jean Brouwers
 ProphICy Semiconductor, Inc.



In article <aOydnfnY_fMPawbcRVn-3A at speakeasy.net>, Carl Bevil
<carl_bevilNOSPAM at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hello all.  If I want to use a custom memory manager to, say, track memory 
> allocations in Python, what's the best way to do this?  I seem to remember 
> there being a way in version 1.5 (or so -- been a while since I used it).  I 
> didn't see anything in the documentation, but I may have missed it.
> 
> I've got the Python source code (v2.3.3) embedded in my application (which is 
> in C++), and would like to somehow override Python's default memory 
> allocators.  Is there an easy or "accepted" way to do this?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Carl
> 
> --
> Remove "NOSPAM" to reply in e-mail
>


From 2002 at weholt.org  Wed Nov 17 18:11:39 2004
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 00:11:39 +0100
Subject: Watermark images using PIL
Message-ID: <6emnp01vff4atv9jto62vtp9t9srndnntf@4ax.com>

I've searched google for this topic and found a few examples, but I
need an example of how to create a semi-transparent, non-intrusive
watermark for images using PIL, something that takes into account the
background of the image when choosing color for the text. 

Making a huge white box or just putting a single-color text across the
entire image looks just bad, so if there is a way to create a more
professional looking watermark I'd be happy for any hint or tip you
might have to offer.

Best regards,
Thomas


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Tue Nov 16 11:19:58 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:19:58 -0500
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <Xns95A38B0C3A56FPaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.78>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<boKdncuh1ZBxbgrcRVn-gA@giganews.com> <L0Tld.2114$nj.1155@lakeread01>
	<41985663$0$272$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<ZR1md.4916$nj.2331@lakeread01>
	<4198cc5f$0$258$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.6383.1100535480.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4198e036$0$289$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.6388.1100548469.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns95A38B0C3A56FPaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.78>
Message-ID: <1f7befae0411160819544b3950@mail.gmail.com>

[Tim Peters]
>> Ya, I sure agree it's not obvious what to do on Windows!  There have
>> been detailed Windows instructions since X3 alpha 1, but subsequent
>> release pages didn't point to them.  I see Jim updated the 3.0.0-final
>> release page to include them now:
>> 
<http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/ZopeX3300>

[Fred Pacquier]
> Huh, thanks for that pointer ! Sure makes a lot more sense that way, and a
> lot less to guess at, even for a developer release :)

Yup -- it's essential.

> If only the lower part of that page had figured in a prominent
> WINDOWS_INSTALL_README.TXT or some such in the Windows
> installer, there'd been much less bitchin' here :-)

Ah, but where would you put this file?  In a *tarball* distribution,
it's easy:  you stick README_FILES_WITH_SCREAMING_NAMES in the root of
the distribution, and then they're easy to find.

But this is a Windows *installer*, and every file it installs is
"hiding" under some subdirectory of your pre-existing Windows Python
installation.  Where could the X3 Windows installer put
WINDOWS_INSTALL_README.TXT where a new user is likely to find it?

I don't believe such a place exists.  It would be anti-social to
clutter the root of the Python installation with package README files,
and I doubt most users would think to look there anyway.  And that's
the "most obvious" place I can dream up.

Doing something other than that (for example, maybe popping up a
README file in Notepad at the end of installation) would require
changes to distutils, since X3's Windows installer is built by
distutils.  The point of that isn't that changing distutils makes it
impossible, the point is that since distutils *today* doesn't have
such abilities, no distutils-built installer built today (whether X3's
or any other Python project's) can do such things.


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Thu Nov 18 09:40:39 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 07:40:39 -0700
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
 number of output arguments)
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.18.10.50.56.752619@jerf.org>
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<419bbf2a.319309032@news.oz.net>
	<pan.2004.11.18.10.50.56.752619@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <419CB467.70109@pythonapocrypha.com>

Jeremy Bowers wrote:
> You take every example mentioned to date, which is largely:
> 
> * OS code trying to be as thin as possible (stat, socket)
> * math-type code where the tuple really is the class, as you suggest
> * more-or-less contrived one- or two-liner code
> 
> and you've still got way, way, way less than 1% of the code of the vast
> majority of programs. 
> 
> Like any other code smell, there are times to use it. But I say it's a
> *smell*, and those of you implicitly reading that to mean "Returning
> tuples is *never* a good idea" are doing me a disservice; please go look
> up "code smell" and the word "generally". 

Well, the first page I found that listed the term "code smell" also mentioned 
"code wants to be simple", and having scanned through a good sized chunk of 
Python code looking to see where multiple return values were used, I am now of 
the opinion that, not only are multiple return values _not_ automatically code 
smell, but they are one of the key ingredients to avoiding monolithic functions 
(and thus they help keep code simple).

The code I looked through had about 4500 return statements. Of those, roughly 
350 were returns with multiple values. Of those, 26 had 4 or more return values 
- if code smell is a hint that something _might_ be wrong, I'd say those 26 have 
code smell, but the remaining 320 or so do not automatically raise concern (I 
inspected those 26 in detail and saw only 4 or 5 cases that'd be removed next 
time the code got refactored).

> If you use it every once in a while where it is the right solution, great.
> I do too. If you're using it every other function in a module, and it
> isn't a thin wrapper around some other library, you've got a code smell.

I found that multiple return values were not often used in "public" functions 
(those meant to be accessible from outside the module). Instead the most common 
use case was between functions that had been separated to divide the problem 
into smaller, testable code chunks (i.e. - rather than having a huge function to 
parse a log line, perform computations, and send the results to output, there 
was a function that'd take the raw data, call a helper function to parse it, 
call another helper to compute the result, and call another to send the results 
off for output)

Without the ability to return multiple values, it would be much more cumbersome 
to split the code into small, easily understood chunks because for any 
non-trivial task, each logical "step" in that task often has multiple inputs as 
well as multiple outputs.

After reviewing the code, I think that the use of multiple return values is, in 
and of itself, _almost never_ a good hint of a problem - way too many false 
positives (a better rule of thumb would be that code that returns BIG tuples has 
code small).

> (It's probably a class or two trying to get out.)

No, at least not in the code I looked at - in the vast majority of the uses of 
multiple return values, the coupling between the functions was already very 
tight (specialized) and the callee-caller relationship was one-to-one or 
one-to-few (the function returning multiple values was called by one or very few 
functions), and the data didn't move around between function as a unit or group, 
such that making a class would have been pure overhead like many C structures - 
never reused, and used only to cross the "bridge" between the two functions 
(immediately unpacked and discarded upon reception).

> You've got a *big* code
> smell if you are unpacking those return values many times, because now
> you've hard coded the size of the tuple into the code in many places. 

Yes, this was mentioned previously.

-Dave


From mj-usunto at tkb.pl  Wed Nov 10 07:14:10 2004
From: mj-usunto at tkb.pl (Marcin Jurczuk)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:14:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to find MAC address and uids?
References: <postmaster-718ADE.06591510112004@news1.east.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <cmt0mi$14b$1@korweta.task.gda.pl>

On 2004-11-10, Daniel T. <postmaster at earthlink.net> wrote:

> 1) How can I programatically find the MAC address of the machine? Is it 
> stored in a file I can look into? (MacOS X)
What is syntax of this file ??

> 2) If I have a user name in a string how do I get his UID?

>>> import pwd
>>> pwd.getpwnam('spock')
('spock', 'x', 100, 101, '', '/export/home/spock', '/bin/bash')
>>> pwd.getpwnam('spock')[2]
100
>>>


-- 
Marcin Jurczuk, NIC-HDL: MJ1679-RIPE


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 14:40:22 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:40:22 -0200
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
	number of output arguments)
In-Reply-To: <30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <864d370904111711406225d37@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:49:03 +1300, Greg Ewing
<greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
> Jeremy Bowers wrote:
> > Generally, returning a tuple is either a sign that your return value
> > should be wrapped up in a class, or the function is doing too much.
> 
> While I suspect you may be largely right, I
> find myself wondering why this should be so. We
> don't seem to have any trouble with multiple inputs
> to a function, so why should multiple outputs be
> a bad thing? What is the reason for this asymmetry?

If there is an assymetry, it is in *favor* of returning tuples for
multiple outputs. Using a tuple removes some of the coupling between
the caller and the function. Note that the function signature defines
names for its internal use, and the caller is not required to know the
internal names (unless kw parameter passing is used). Forcing names on
the output introduces *more* coupling, and makes the design less
flexible.

In practical terms, it's important to note that generic utility
functions often do not return a "full class", but just a bunch of
results that may or not be stored into a single class. Requiring that
a class to be defined just to return a bunch of data is overkill.

Finally, I assume that it's considered standard practice in Python to
use tuples to store arbitrary collections of data, pretty much like C
structs. The only difference is that the members are not named (and
thus loosely coupled). This should not be a big deal for *most*
situation. The structure of the return tuple can be documented in the
doc string. For complex structures, returning a dict is good
possibility (although in this case the fact that the names are defined
introduces some degree of coupling). Of course, if the case is complex
enough, declaring a class is the way to go, but then, it's a design
decision.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From arkham at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 12:00:05 2004
From: arkham at gmail.com (Rob Snyder)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:00:05 GMT
Subject: teaching OO
References: <slrncq8inq.9gv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<WU0pd.19552$ld2.4789270@twister.nyc.rr.com>
	<mailman.6757.1101313279.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <p63pd.25278$Vk6.22925@twister.nyc.rr.com>

Neil Benn wrote:

> <snip>
> 
>>As for the interesting C++ issues, those same students were able to pick
>>those concepts up quickly in their later classes. "Overloading", for
>>example, was a pretty simple concept to grasp for people who had
>>previously spent a whole semester heads down learning OO.
>>
>>Rob
>>  
>>
> Hello,
> 
>           Just out of interest, did the students get confused between
> polymorphism acheived through duck-typing and polymorphism acheived
> through inheritence.  Obviously not all OO languages have duck typing
> and they are subtly different concepts which may confuse a learner.
> 
>     Just a question, I'm not in education so I wouldn't know the best
> way to perform structured education (my teacher friends remind me of
> this all the time!!).
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Neil
> 

Neil -

At first, yes. What I found quite interesting was that most students seemed
to naturally think that duck typing was the only "sensible" way things
should work, and later, when faced with C++, they did often stumble.

I am more careful now to seperate the Python way of doing things from the
general theory behind inheritance, interfaces, and class types, and I try
to cover up front how a lot of the rest of the world works. 

Regards,

Rob


From craig at postnewspapers.com.au  Fri Nov 19 16:14:16 2004
From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 05:14:16 +0800
Subject: Question about thread
In-Reply-To: <cnlmt0$jea$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
References: <1100875373.911763@eng-ser6> <306ic5F2svtsdU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1100879122.755150@eng-ser4>
	<mailman.6607.1100881214.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cnlmt0$jea$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <1100898855.13953.1.camel@rasputin.localnet>

On Sat, 2004-11-20 at 04:56, Jarek Zgoda wrote:

> Are you sure? I keep observing that child threads continue its execution 
> until completion even if I do nothing in main thread. Consider this example:

Well, I'm very far from an expert, but I've also experienced the
poster's reported behaviour even with quite simple programs. I'm
surprised to hear that the initially described behaviour isn't always
the case, and would be interested in knowing more about when it is, and
is not, generally encountered.

--
Craig Ringer



From Florian.Wilhelm at web.de  Tue Nov  9 17:54:37 2004
From: Florian.Wilhelm at web.de (Florian Wilhelm)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 23:54:37 +0100
Subject: Problems with user input
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.09.22.54.37.120023@web.de>

I have some easy questions, but I cant figure them out:

I want to read exactly one char from stdin, there should
be no need to hit enter.

import sys

print "Input: (y/N) ",
input = sys.stdin.read(1)
print "Your input:", input

This code has following problems:
1) I need to hit enter, although I read only one char?!?
2) The complete output is:

Input: (y/N) y
 Your input: y

Why does the whitespace char appear in front of "Your input..."?
I guess it has something to do with not causing a linebreak
after "Input: (y/N) ", but I want no linebreak...

Any suggestions?

Regards,
Florian



From theller at python.net  Fri Nov  5 07:13:44 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 13:13:44 +0100
Subject: Python for 8/16 Bit MSDOS ( 486 / 586 / K5 / K6/ Beck-IPC )
 processors.
References: <418B6158.3C7BD9B1@iee.lu>
Message-ID: <y8hgv6h3.fsf@python.net>

Manfred Schwab <msw at iee.lu> writes:

> Hi there,
> which versions of python are usable under MS-DOS 5.0 oder 6.22 or Dr.
> DOS.
>
> I want to use it under a industrial environment to collect measuring
> data like temperature, moist and signalconditions with a Beck industrial
> PC. Did somebody try this already ? Is there a certain URL where i can
> get further information.

I severely doubt the Beck-IPC has enough memory for that.

Thomas


From none at none.com  Wed Nov 17 20:53:16 2004
From: none at none.com (Larry)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 01:53:16 GMT
Subject: ODBC Select
Message-ID: <ggTmd.419457$D%.49733@attbi_s51>

I am trying to connect to my MySQL database using python and ODBC.

Here is what I am doing.

 >>> import dbi,odbc
 >>> conn=odbc.odbc("dsn=facs")
 >>> cursor=conn.cursor()
 >>> cursor.execute("select * from data")
0
 >>>

Notice I get the "0" after the select statement.
Problem is, there are 20 records in the database.  In fact I can do this

 >>> cursor.execute("insert into data (facility) values ('AAA')")
1
 >>>

and then I can do this

 >>> cursor.execute("delete from data where id > 20")
1
 >>>

but when I do

 >>> cursor.execute("select * from data")
0
 >>>

Anyone seen this and can maybe tell me why this is occuring.  I have 
full privileges as I can log on and query with the DSN from other programs.

Thanks,
Larry





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Nov 22 20:25:53 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 20:25:53 -0500
Subject: Identifying exceptions that can be raised
In-Reply-To: <545cb8c2.0411221645.442bb88a@posting.google.com>
References: <cVdnd.7986$tS4.4873@trndny09>
	<mailman.6579.1100837821.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<6Rknd.6671$%M4.4203@trndny08>
	<cnmcek$rju$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<545cb8c2.0411221645.442bb88a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cnu3i1$ne9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Jim Hefferon wrote:
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote ..
> 
>>The usual approach is to have a caller catch exceptions
>>*which it is capable of dealing with appropriately*, and
>>ignore others.  In some cases it's necessary to have a
>>"generic" exception handler, such as at the top level of
>>a thread, to catch and log all exceptions, but that's
>>relatively rare.
> 
> I wonder if perhaps you don't write different kinds of programs than I
> do.

I certainly do.  I don't, for example, ever do CGI...

> For instance, I have a cgi program.  One routine will get an id from a
> httpd parameter, use it to reach into a database and fetch some xml,
> and then pull information out of the xml for display.  That I can
> tell, there are about 100 exceptions that could be raised ...

...but were I faced with this situation, I would follow my
above advice about "in some cases it's necessary...".  This
is exactly such a situation.  I would always wrap such a
program** at the top level with a generic exception handler
and a call to traceback.format_exception() (or whatever it's
called), turning any errors into visible results, or at
the very least logging them somewhere for analysis.

** I don't think of CGI calls as independent _programs_, mind
you, any more than I think of individual threads as programs,
but I'm not sure this is affecting my opinion here vis-a-vis
exception handling.

-Peter


From ncoghlan at email.com  Thu Nov 25 09:10:24 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 00:10:24 +1000
Subject: Python Function pointer in C
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6733.1101247826.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6733.1101247826.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41a5e7ce$0$25788$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

David Gilbert wrote:
> I'm trying to maintain the interface to KQueue for FreeBSD.  At one
> point, the C module stores an opaque object in a C structure such that
> the opaque pointer can be used later by the application.

In this case, a Py_IncRef/DecRef pair is definitely required - the 'borrowed' 
reference from the Python function call only lasts until the function returns. 
You need your own reference if you're going to hang on to the pointer.

> How do I define "udata" such that I can stuff the lambda reference in
> there?

PyObject* should be fine so long as the references are handled correctly.

> Now... I've wondered if this is a reference counting issue --- but
> this still happens when I use the name of a module global function as
> udata.

I'd suggest adding the IncRef/DecRef pair and trying it out again. I can't see 
anything else obviously wrong in the fragments you've posted.

If that was the sole problem though, I would have expected the same as you - for 
the module global function to work correctly.

Sorry I can't be more help. . .

Cheers,
Nick.


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov  8 12:18:46 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 18:18:46 +0100
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<tyfekj44shs.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxizh.3rip5na92f0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyfacts4of3.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxn7d.19o8q51jt2gu5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<wtww9u4p.fsf@python.net> <cmo88k$1ot$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<r7n49st0.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <cmo9pj$fsd$03$1@news.t-online.com>

>> Conveniently, COM objects can be wrapped on the fly be the
>> python win32 extensions.
> 
> Yes, but only Dispatch interfaces. ctypes is able to wrap native
> interfaces by constructing the vtable at runtime, by using a manually
> written or generated interface definition.

COM is espacially designed to allow for this - language interoparability. So
its not to surprising that its easily wrapped. But one can draw _no_
conclusions from that about C++ - as COM is a binary standard defined in
terms of C. The fact that VStudio integrates it nicely with C++ has nothing
to do with that.

> I mean, for example, code like this (from MS' GdiPlusTypes.h):
> 
> class CharacterRange
<snip>

> };

I know, I meant that code too. 
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Nov 16 22:49:03 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:49:03 +1300
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
 number of output arguments)
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>

Jeremy Bowers wrote:
> Generally, returning a tuple is either a sign that your return value
> should be wrapped up in a class, or the function is doing too much.

While I suspect you may be largely right, I
find myself wondering why this should be so. We
don't seem to have any trouble with multiple inputs
to a function, so why should multiple outputs be
a bad thing? What is the reason for this asymmetry?

Perhaps it has something to do with positional vs.
keyword arguments. If a function has too many input
arguments to remember what order they go in, we
always have the option of specifying them by
keyword. But we can't do that with the return-a-tuple-
and-unpack technique for output arguments -- it's
strictly positional.

Maybe things would be better if we had "dict unpacking":

   a, c, b = {'a': 1, 'b': 2, 'c': 3}

would give a == 1, c == 3, b == 2. Then we could
accept outputs by keyword as well as inputs...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Nov  9 08:26:43 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 08:26:43 -0500
Subject: psycopg, transactions and multiple cursors
In-Reply-To: <cmo239$guj$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
References: <cmnqpk$2gh$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<cmnroq$raf$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<cmnso7$iih$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cmnud5$uph$1@news4.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<cmnvto$p6l$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cmo239$guj$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
Message-ID: <5G3kd.13457$931.7749@lakeread01>

Alban Hertroys wrote:

> Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> 
>>> AFAIK, you can't open a transaction w/o using a cursor; You need a query
>>> that says "BEGIN;".
>>> You can commit a connection object, however. It would be nice to be able
>>> to start a transaction on a connection object, but then you still could
>>> only have one transaction per connection... :(
>>
>>
>>
>> thats actually the case for all DBs I know including e.g. oracle with 
>> jdbc -
>> so the abstraction layers usually use connection pooling to speed up
>> opening a connection thus the app doesn't suffer so much.
> 
Yes, most database connections will generate an implicit transaction the 
first time a change is made to the database (in the absence of autocommit).

> 
> Ok, that means I won't get away with a single connection object (unless 
> psycopg puts a connection pool in a single connection object).
> 
>> No idea why thats happening - on jdbc, one can set an "autocommit"
>> connection property that will do exactly that: enforce a commit if a
>> statement was successful. Maybe psycopg has that too?
> 
> 
> Yes, it does have autoCommit, and thankfully it can be turned off (which 
> I did, of course).
> 
It certainly isn't too useful if you occasionally need to roll things 
back. Structural changes to the database will frequently cause an 
automatic commit anyway, though - you aren't modifying the database 
structure at all, I take it?

>>> I know PostgreSQL can do transactions on nested cursors, I have used
>>> that now and then in stored procedures (pl/pgsql).
> 
> 
>> I didn't find much on nested cursors on google, so I don't know how they
>> work - but I assume if they are part of psycopg, they somehow have to be
>> created using an existing cursor, as otherwise how should psycopg know 
>> that
>> what you want is a nested and not a new cursor.
> 
> 
> Actually, nesting of cursors is something that PL/PgSQL can do. And so 
> can PL/SQL in Oracle.
> It's something that's possible on a low database API level, and (to my 
> understanding) the DBAPI 2.0 uses them for queries. It's one of Pythons' 
> advantages over eg. PHP, and one of the reasons I chose to use Python 
> for this project.
> 
Nested cursors aren;t nested transcations, though, right?

>> So is there something on cursor objecst to get a new cursor, or at 
>> least the
>> connection so you can get a cursor on the very same connection?
> 
> 
> A cursor is comparable to an iterator over a result set (where the 
> cursor fetches one record from the database at a time).
> 
B e careful that you don;t confuse the DB API curosrs with the cursors 
you get with DECLARE CURSOR in PL/SQL, for example. The two aren;t 
necessarily the same thing (and I've always felt that "cursor" was, for 
that reason, not the best possible terminological choice for the DB API).

> You use one for every query, and it can often be reused for the next 
> query as well.
> 
> However, if you loop through a result set (with a cursor) and you need 
> to do a query based on the record that the cursor is currently 
> positioned at, you can't use the same cursor again for that query, but 
> need to open a new cursor. That's what I meant by "nesting cursors".
> 
Bear in mind, though, that it will often be *much* more efficient to do 
a fetchall() from the cursor and iterate over that result. This 
typically avoids many round-trips by fetching all the data at once, 
though it's less practical if data sets become huge.

There's sometimes a middle ground to be found with repeated calls to 
fetchmany().

In that way the curosr can be reused with impunity once the data has 
been fetched.

> That shouldn't matter for the state of a transaction, though...
> 
> Maybe there's a difference between database level cursors and DB API 2.0 
> level cursors in Python?
> 
As I mentioned above, there often is.

I think we've already agreed that the psycopg cursors aren't DB API 
compliant anyway, precisely because of the way they handle transactions. 
An API-compliant library shares transaction state across all cursors 
generated from the same connection, which (IMHO) gives the flexibility 
one needs to to handle complex database interactions.

> The number of questions is increasing...

Well, the number of answers is, too, but it seems to me you *are* kind 
of wanting to have your cake and eat it. In previous threads you've 
suggested that the psycopg cursor behavior is what you want, but now 
that very behavior might (?) be biting you.

Anyway, you couldn't be talking to a better bunch of guys to try and 
solve this problem. c.l.py is sometimes persistent beyond all reasonable 
limits. Good luck!

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Nov  1 12:42:15 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 11:42:15 -0600
Subject: ruby on rails ... python on ?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>
References: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>
Message-ID: <41867577.4010409@colorstudy.com>

flab ba wrote:
> The pragmatic programmers (Dave & Andy) are spreading a good word about
> RubyOnRails. I was wondering if there are any Python programmers who are
> /also/ familiar with Rails - and if they could recommend something in the
> Python world that is comparable.

I've looked a little at Rails.  It's not super special.  Well, it *is* 
compared to things like Java; dynamic languages *are* quite superior for 
rapid development of websites, and Ruby and Python are similar languages 
in that way.

Rails is really a whole stack that works well together.  People have 
been writing this sort of thing in Python for a long time; which isn't 
to say they always have gotten it right, or that those efforts have had 
the right perspective to be strategic successes (i.e., become popular).

Lessee... Rails seems to have:

* A simple object publisher.  There's a ton of these in Python.  It also 
perhaps includes some sort of MVC system, where the object picks up a 
template automatically if it exists.  These exist as well, though I 
think MVC efforts can become overly ambitious or overly restrictive 
fairly easily.

* An object-relational mapper.  I'd say this is close to SQLObject, 
though SQLObject is in some ways more powerful.

* A templating system.  Looks like ASP.  There's lots of templating 
languages in Python; the simplest (e.g., embed Python code) can be 
problematic because of Python's significant whitespace.  But anyway, we 
have lots and lots of these, and there are real reasons for why there's 
multiple templating languages.  Spyce is probably the closest to Rails.


All three of these pieces fit together really well in Rails, which is 
perhaps what it offers that Python doesn't have.  Well, I'm sure some 
framework out there has this, but it's hard to say, there's so damn many.

But, while this is really compelling when you show off the creation of a 
simple system, I suspect it becomes a fair amount more complicated later 
on.  At least, that is my experience with Python projects of similar 
ambition.  It's neat to setup a database and have it work instantly, 
complete with the standard CRUD forms.  But this only works for "leaf" 
tables, and even then no so well.  How do you deal with joins?  How do 
you deal with complex requirements on input, or actions on updates? 
Eventually you'll need to tweak a generated form just a *little*, does 
that mean you have to throw away all the automated aspects and code it 
by hand?

I don't mean to criticize Rails with these questions; it's not that 
Python frameworks solve these wonderfully either, these are just hard 
problems.  But for realistic web applications these are inevitable 
issues, and I suspect Rails isn't quite as compelling when you take them 
into account.

OTOH, I'd love to see something in Python that is just as tight as 
Rails, but uses all the pieces we've already developed.  It's really 
just a question of sticking pieces together; but that's a surprisingly 
difficult operation.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Nov  9 15:03:48 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 20:03:48 GMT
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
In-Reply-To: <41905f33@news.highway1.com.au>
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com> <2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<60dfb6f6.0411050715.601f381f@posting.google.com>
	<2v82u3F2dhtcpU1@uni-berlin.de> <cmoqn9$cbf$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<2vaj5oF2jl25lU1@uni-berlin.de> <41905f33@news.highway1.com.au>
Message-ID: <Eo9kd.22130$KJ6.5426@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Tim Hoffman wrote:
> Oops now that we are on the slippery slope of metaphors ;-) do we class
> super cooled liquid types as ones that can be co-oerced but just take a
> very long time ;-)

Or perhaps since supercooled fluids have all particles in the
lowest quantum state, the metaphor is that everything gets treated
as the root Object type?

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Sun Nov 21 01:02:17 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 01:02:17 -0500
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
In-Reply-To: <slrncprdqi.piq.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<slrncpgm80.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6381.1100534178.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpjcga.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6465.1100663898.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpmejc.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6506.1100723876.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncponhe.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6576.1100832119.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncprdqi.piq.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <1f7befae041120220268ec5cf7@mail.gmail.com>

[Antoon Pardon]
> I'm talking about PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc only as a throw in
> response to your previous remark. The main subject is signals.

OK.
...

> Well wether the work is done or not hardly seems to matter. The
> documentation as worded now seems to make it clear, this isn't
> going get into the language.

But you're still talking about PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc here, right?

Explained last time that it can't possibly "get into the language" in
the state it's in now.  The people who orginally did the work got
everything they wanted at the time:  the C API function, and the
then-new thread.interrupt_main() function in Python.  They didn't ask
for more than that, and they didn't work on more than that.

Doing more work is a necessary prerequisite if people want more than
that in the language.  Making the case that it should be in the
language is part of that work, but, if you haven't noticed, PEPs that
have working implementations fare much better than PEPs that don't. 
Indeed, no PEP without an implementation has ever been released
<wink>.

...

> As I understand the doc, one doesn't plan to begin working on a
> Python-level feature and even if someone else implements it, it
> has no chance of getting in the language.

Sorry, couldn't make sense of that sentence.

> As I read the docs it is not so much a question of the feature not
> being ready for the langauge, but a question of Guido not wanting the
> feature to be in the language.

You're still talking about PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc?  I haven't asked
Guido about it, and I can't find any design discussion of that
function anywhere.  I think it got added during a European sprint.  If
you want to know what he thinks, ask him.  If you want a definitive
ruling, write a PEP.

> This just to show that having someone implement it, is not
> the biggest hurdle as your prevous remark seemed to suggest
> to me.

An implementation is prerequisite to release, but isn't necessarily
sufficient.  I explained in detail last time why the current C code
has no claim to being "an implementation" of a *Python*-level spelling
of this functionality, so neither a suitable implementation nor the
necessary design discusiion have been done in this case.

If this is something you want, but you also want guaranteed acceptance
in advance of doing more than writing about it, that won't work.  If
you ask Guido, and he can make time to answer, you may get guaranteed
rejection in advance -- or you may not.  A PEP would be a good thing
to have in *either* case.

 ...

> Although you can't help me with my main question, I like to express
> my appreciation for your responses. They have been very insighfull
> and I'll be sure to use them to my advantage.

My fondest hope is that you'll be able to use them to crush Guido into
submission <wink>.


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Thu Nov 18 09:24:14 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:24:14 +0200
Subject: PIL for Python 2.4?
References: <6r6pp018glonqu2kqeau5ru9nhfj9fpchv@4ax.com>
	<mailman.6543.1100784027.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b0cpp0tveaidq3lbnsvnji5apnloi4u2g8@4ax.com>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:17:50 +0100, rumours say that Gerhard Haering
<gh at ghaering.de> might have written:

>> Has anyone built PIL (1.1.4 or 1.1.5) for Python 2.4?  If yes,
>> please let me know, [...]
>
>I haven't. But it would have been useful if you had mentioned which
>platform ;-) Windows?

Oh, yes, Windows... On Linux I built it myself.  I just don't have
access to a MS compiler on Windows.

Sorry for not being clear.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
"Tssss!" --Brad Pitt as Achilles in unprecedented Ancient Greek


From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Mon Nov  8 14:47:34 2004
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 19:47:34 GMT
Subject: yet another recipe on string interpolation
References: <4edc17eb.0411032219.659c1824@posting.google.com>
	<cmdpe5$uem$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<4edc17eb.0411080106.71d4f3d4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <q3Qjd.17$4U1.11@trndny05>

"Michele Simionato" <michele.simionato at gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4edc17eb.0411080106.71d4f3d4 at posting.google.com...
> Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message
news:<cmdpe5$uem$02$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> > As of 2.4b2, the modulo operator is not (not yet, or no longer?) defined, so
> > I had to use substitute() instead.
>
> I have downloaded Python 2.4b2 today and looked at the source code for
> the Template class. There is no __mod__ method, in contraddiction with
> PEP 292. Is there somebody who knows what happened and the rationale
> for the change? Should PEP 292 be updated?

It was updated a good while ago:
    http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0292.html

The PEP STATES that the API is through the substitute() and safe_substitute()
methods.  Also, it notes that __mod__ is easily aliased to one of the those via
a Template subclass.

By using named methods instead of the % operator:
* we avoid the precedence issues associated with %
* we avoid confusion as to whether a tuple is an acceptable second argument
* we avoid confusion with "%s" style inputs.
* we enable keyword arguments:  mytempl.substitute(weather="rainy")
* we get something more documenting than punctuation.


Raymond Hettinger




>
>          Michele Simionato




From PeterMayne at ap.spherion.com  Wed Nov 10 22:42:18 2004
From: PeterMayne at ap.spherion.com (Mayne, Peter)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:42:18 +1100
Subject: Pre-built SWIG binaries for Graphviz
Message-ID: <5E9DE07827946946A62B84765DE84D7402532A68@s-f003004.cbr.cpg.com.au>

I'm looking for pre-built SWIG binaries for Python 2.3 so I can call the
Graphviz (graphviz.org) libraries directly, rather than using os.popen2
(which doesn't work on Windows 9x) to call the executable.

Any pointers to binaries + instructions? I've exhausted the Google/AltaVista
routes.

Thanks.

PJDM

-- 
Peter Mayne
Technology Consultant
Spherion Technology Solutions
Level 1, 243 Northbourne Avenue, Lyneham, ACT, 2602
T: 61 2 62689727  F: 61 2 62689777

The information contained in this email and any attachments to it:

(a) may be confidential and if you are not the intended recipient, any interference with, 
use, disclosure or copying of this material is unauthorised and prohibited; and

(b) may contain personal information of the recipient and/or the sender as defined 
under the Privacy Act 1988 (Cth). Consent is hereby given by the recipient(s) to 
collect, hold and use such information and any personal information contained in a 
response to this email, for any reasonable purpose in the ordinary course of 
Spherion's 
business, including forwarding this email internally or disclosing it to a third party. All 
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Spherion's Privacy Policy. If you have received this email in error, please notify the 
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From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Thu Nov 11 15:24:35 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (Premshree Pillai)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:24:35 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Py2exe help for beginner
In-Reply-To: <opsg5b3rau13dtg9@h6yvc01-wgg.eur.slb.com>
Message-ID: <20041111202435.92276.qmail@web8503.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Martin Franklin
<mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com> wrote: 
> On 8 Nov 2004 04:08:30 -0800, PeterFI
> <peximies at suomi24.fi> wrote:
> 
> > Howdy folks,
> >
> > I?m taking my first steps in a world of python and
> I start from the
> > end:)
> >
> > I have this little application written in python
> and I need to convert
> > it to Finnish. Modifications to the source code
> are ready and now I
> > need to compile it to exe. It is only one py file,
> Iterator.py.
> >
> > my setup.py looks like this
> >
> > from distutils.core import setup
> > import glob,os,sys
> > import py2exe
> >
> >
> > setup(name='MyIterator',
> >       version='0.2',
> >       author='P.P',
> >       py_modules=["Iterator"])
> >

Tried this?

from distutils.core import setup
import py2exe
setup(name = "package_name",
     scripts = ["path/to/script.py"],
)

--Premshree


> > it runs nicely but no exe is created? What am I
> missing?
> 
> 
> What does the output of the 'python setup.py py2exe'
> command look like
> exactly?
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>  

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partner online
Go to: http://yahoo.shaadi.com/india-matrimony


From jerry at jerrysievers.com  Mon Nov 29 11:07:48 2004
From: jerry at jerrysievers.com (Jerry Sievers)
Date: 29 Nov 2004 11:07:48 -0500
Subject: PyQt on a Server
References: <slrncqmbfk.2nq.rparnes@debian.localdomain>
Message-ID: <m3hdn8eizv.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>

Bob Parnes <rparnes at megalink.net> writes:

> I have an application importing qt on a linux server and am missing 
> something in trying to run it from a workstation via nfs. The 
> workstation has the server /usr directory mounted to its own /usr 
> directory, so it can access the necessary files. The error I get is
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/demo/revenues.py", line 24, in ?
>     from qt import *
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/qt.py", line 24, in ?
>     import libsip
> ImportError: libXrender.so.1: cannot open shared object file: 
>   No such file or directory
> 
> I can see the file in /usr/X11R6/lib. So maybe there is a path variable
> that qt.py uses and that has to be set on the workstation. If so, I don't 
> know how to find it. Thanks for any help.


LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/X11R6/lib

or if the LD_LIBRARY_PATH exists already, append to it;

LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$LD_LIBRARY_PATH:/usr/X11R6/lib

then

export LD_LIBRARY_PATH

Now try running your Python script and see if this helps.  If so, read
about ld.config and add that lib to the standard config on the
workstation if you plan on having that NFS mount all the time.

You might also check to insure that the lib that you are "seeing" is
actually a file and not a symlink to nowhere and that the file has
appropriate perms for a shared lib r-x is typical.

HTH

> 
> Bob
> 
> -- 
> Bob Parnes
> rparnes at megalink.net

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Sievers   305 854-3001 (home)     WWW ECommerce Consultant
                305 321-1144 (mobile	http://www.JerrySievers.com/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  7 04:30:34 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 10:30:34 +0100
Subject: PEP new assert idiom
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmurvv.1meude125h1zrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6027.1099792216.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmvgit.vzj5g4hv9dsrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6049.1099815505.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gmvm6b.131yfhfvdcrzpN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

F?bio Mendes <niels_bohr at uol.com.br> wrote:

> > So follow PEP 8's recommendation instead:
> > 
> > assert (
> >    exp1 and
> >    exp2 and
> >    ...
> >    expn
> >    ), 'Errormsg'
> > 
> I didn't know this would work for 'and/or' operators (even I've read the
> style guide PEP!), sorry. It's not super beautiful, but I could live
> happy with that :)

It works for the parentheses -- what operators are inside the
parentheses, including none at all, doesn't matter.  A logical line
isn't finished until all kinds of parentheses are balanced.


> > I don't see the parentheses (which clarify the syntax issue you
> > mentioned in your first post) and 'and' as any uglier than the commas.
> > And having commas mean line continuation is out of the question.
> 
> I never said that commas should mean line continuation (as a backslash).
> It CAN be used as implicit line continuations in lot cases, (like
> function arguments, for instance. This would be just one more case.

Nope, comma can never be used as implicit line continuation in Python
(that's different from some other languages).  The opened and yet
unclosed parentheses are what cause several physical lines to be part of
the same logical line -- not commas, nor other operator or punctuation.

Consider for example:

print ( 'some text'
  'and some more'
  'and yet more' )

look, ma: no commas (nor other punctuation nor operators, yet three
physical lines merge into just one logical line -- thanks to the
parentheses.  This will print

some textand some moreand yet more

because adjacent string literals merge into one string literal (in
Python just like in C).

If you put commas there WITH the parentheses, you'd be printing out a
tuple.  With the commas and WITHOUT the parentheses, syntax error.

You may be associating "commas continue lines" with "function arguments"
because function definitions and calls DO use parentheses, and separate
arguments with commas.  But it's really not an ideal mental model.


Alex


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Nov 19 19:00:43 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:00:43 -0800
Subject: Global variables in modules/functions
In-Reply-To: <cnltf7$ra6$1@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>
References: <cnltf7$ra6$1@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>
Message-ID: <OeydnfA08OaxFAPcRVn-tg@speakeasy.net>

Aaron Deskins wrote:

> I'm trying to write program with a main.py and several functions 
> distributed in auxiliary *.py files. I've looked through the archives on 
> the 'global' keyword, but I'm still not sure how to get this right. I 
> want to be able to have some variables that can be accessed/changed by 
> many modules/functions.

Globals aren't common to all modules.  You can think of globals as 
module-specific.  That is, the global n is not shared between your two 
modules.  It will be in one of the modules, and the other module can 
then reference it explicitly.  Something like (untested):

main.py
-------
import change
change.n = 1
change.change_n()
print change.n

change.py
---------
n = 0 # here's the actual global
def change_n():
     global n
     n = 2

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
   They have rights who dare defend them.
   -- Roger Baldwin


From timothy.grant at gmail.com  Wed Nov 10 13:20:06 2004
From: timothy.grant at gmail.com (Timothy Grant)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:20:06 -0800
Subject: ANN: PyQt-Mac installer available
In-Reply-To: <5Vlkd.1069$yk5.385@fe37.usenetserver.com>
References: <5Vlkd.1069$yk5.385@fe37.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <e775286d041110102070ca8a8d@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 05:17:36 -0500, Kevin Walzer
<sw at wordtech-software.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> PyQt-Mac is a binary installer of the various components of Qt and PyQt
> for Mac OS X. Included are the following:
>         ?
> * A complete build of Qt/Mac with QScintilla support.
>         ?
> * A compiled binary of Sip, the application that converts Qt's C++ base
> into Python bindings.
>         ?
> * PyQt.
>         ?
> * Eric 3, an integrated development environment (IDE) for Python written
> with the PyQt toolkit.
> 
> These packages include both compiled binaries and complete source code.
> 
> For more information, http://www.wordtech-software.com/pyqt-mac.html.
> 
> 
> 
> - --
> Kevin Walzer, PhD
> WordTech Software--Open Source Applications and Packages for OS X
> http://www.wordtech-software.com
> http://www.smallbizmac.com
> http://www.kevin-walzer.com
> mailto:sw at wordtech-software.com
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> 
> iD8DBQFBkeqzJmdQs+6YVcoRApnZAJ4pc/sP2NmybJ6JOb3kSXUaGoBBygCcCHPx
> 6upq87BzVyaXLpQnyMztv2I=
> =57qD
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 

This is a huge blessing! Thank you so much.

That said I'm having a bit of difficulty.

I believe I followed the instructions correctly including all the
symlinks that were suggested. However, I get an error.


(timothygrant at bastard%) pythonw                                       
                           ~
Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) 
[GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import qt
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: Failure linking new module: libqt-mt.3.dylib: dyld:
/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/Resources/Python.app/Contents/MacOS/Python
can't open library: libqt-mt.3.dylib  (No such file or directory,
errno = 2)

>>> 

Any tips?

Thank you.


-- 
Stand Fast,
    tjg.


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 24 12:33:36 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:33:36 GMT
Subject: How to get an item from a simple set?
References: <mzx7xo74.fsf@wgmail2.gatwick.eur.slb.com>
	<OX1pd.561230$mD.125849@attbi_s02>
Message-ID: <41a4bbce.908273778@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:40:30 GMT, Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:

>Pete Forman wrote:
>> I have a set that contains one item.  What is the best way of getting
>> at that item?  Using pop() empties the set.  Here is what I've tried.
>
>This is what tuple unpacking is for:
>
> >>> s = set(['foo'])
> >>> item, = s
> >>> item
>'foo'
> >>> [item] = s
> >>> item
>'foo'
>
>It's up to you whether you like the tuple or list syntax better. =)
>
Thanks. I didn't realize a list format could be used to specify target names
like that. My intial reaction is a bendy feeling in my list expression syntax
recognizer, though. I'm not sure I like that on the left hand side.
It feels too much like __setitem__ on some implied object. The tuple syntax
on the left hand side is only for unpacking (unless you want to imagine invoking
an implied unnamed function, but that's a stretch IMO), so it doesn't trigger
that near-miss syntax recognition feeling.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From tifredman at free.fr  Sun Nov  7 17:59:22 2004
From: tifredman at free.fr (bwani)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 17:59:22 -0500
Subject: installing ppgplot (using OS X 10.3 / gcc 3.4 / python 2.3b)
References: <mailman.632.1086548804.6949.python-list@python.org>
	<d589205a4565a5b5240aae21a90f5b34@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>
Message-ID: <c03ba6d21889a41d629ee4b01a372760@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>

Ok, I found my error...
the one missing was -lg2c
and all works fine again :)
But i still don't understand the errors in pgplot compilation

Here are the 2 commands i typed for ppgplot:

# Compilation
gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -mno-fused-madd -fno-common -dynamic -DNDEBUG -g
-O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes
-I/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/include/python2.3/Numeric
-I/usr/local/pgplot/
-I/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/include/python2.3
-c src/_ppgplot.c -o
build/temp.darwin-7.5.0-Power_Macintosh-2.3/src/_ppgplot.o

# Linking  !! DON'T FORGET -lg2c !!!!!
gcc -framework Python -lcpgplot -lpgplot -L/usr/X11R6/lib/
-L/usr/local/pgplot -L/usr/local/lib -lg2c -lX11 -lm -bundle
-Wl,-framework -Wl,AppKit
build/temp.darwin-7.5.0-Power_Macintosh-2.3/src/_ppgplot.o -o
build/lib.darwin-7.5.0-Power_Macintosh-2.3/ppgplot/_ppgplot.so


then copy the _ppgplot.so to pythonpath, and use it!

Fred




From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Wed Nov 10 21:17:34 2004
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 18:17:34 -0800
Subject: Announce: csv_xs.py
References: <BDB81C1E.1C8E%cme@lampcoders.net>
	<mailman.6229.1100114270.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<BDB82EB7.1CA7%cme@lampcoders.net>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0411101817.5c4e52f0@posting.google.com>

Christian Meissner <cme at lampcoders.net> wrote in message news:<BDB82EB7.1CA7%cme at lampcoders.net>...
> > Can you explain what you liked about Perl's csv_xz package and/or didn't
> > like about Python's csv module that motivated you to write your own class?
> > 
> 
> I'm a native perl speaker, but at my last work i had to learn python, to
> edit some zope thinks (quite difficult).
> 
> Now i wanna learn python for me and i often work with csv files with perl
> but now i wanna develop some python programs for csv file working.
> In this task i would extend the csv module for my needs

What are your needs, that are not covered by Python's csv module?
You have this comment near the beginning of your source file:
"This File contains classes, which enable you to get mor efficient
access to
    csv - files."
How do you define efficiency? Speed of reading files? Last time I
looked, the guts of the Python csv module was written in C. Memory
footprint? Try sucking in a file with a few million records with your
module and check the memory usage.


> but there i get any
> errors,

What errors did you get when you tried to use the Python module?

> so it was easier for me to develop a class which is like the perl
> one.
> 
> hope it is ok

Istvan has already covered this topic.

> Chris


From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Nov  2 18:13:00 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 00:13:00 +0100
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
In-Reply-To: <41880b1a$0$19736$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
	<du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<4187b7a1$0$2383$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<hu0l52-ml1.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	<41880b1a$0$19736$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <20041102231300.GA15162@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Tue, Nov 02, 2004 at 11:41:18PM +0100, bruno modulix wrote:
> Michael Str?der a ?crit :
> >Peter Hickman wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>Just today we required a module that was not installed on our system.
> >>
> >>sudo perl -MCPAN -e 'install Data::Pager'
> >>
> >>And it was installed with all it's dependencies.
> >
> >
> >I'd rather call that a security and maintenance nightmare...
> 
> <aol>
> We had some program (can't remember if it was spamassassin or an 
> antivir, I'm not the sysadmin !-) gone mad and all our customers mails 
> blocked for a full day because of such a wonderfull update of a perl 
> module...
> </aol>

Well, could have happened with a Debian [*] or *BSD, etc. update as well,
right?

-- Gerhard

[*] -testing or -unstable
-- 
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
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From felciano at ingenuity.com  Fri Nov 19 19:47:03 2004
From: felciano at ingenuity.com (Ramon Felciano)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 16:47:03 -0800
Subject: Pythonic list to bitflag mapping
Message-ID: <76c29906.0411191647.4b135e06@posting.google.com>

Hi --

I have a list of integers that I'd like to convert to a bitflag or 1D
matrix format:

a = [3,4,6]
b = [0,0,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,0] # a 1 for each position in the a list

The specifics of the resulting representation is irrelevant; it could
be ' ' and 'X' characters. Eventually this will be printed in a grid
format, so the key is converting those numbers to an appropriate
positional flag in the result list.

I can do this with loops etc, but was curious if there isn't a python
one-liner or list comprehension way of doing it. What I'd like to
write is something like the following:

[1 if x in a else 0 for x in range(10)]

Any tips?

Thanks!

Ramon


From pythongnome at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 24 08:09:31 2004
From: pythongnome at hotmail.com (Lucas Raab)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 13:09:31 GMT
Subject: instant messenging
In-Reply-To: <5c861a71.0411231758.30c5d37c@posting.google.com>
References: <d01od.8535$Qh3.3891@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<2004112108293216807%craig@yumaca>
	<TZtod.9969$Qh3.8066@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<5c861a71.0411231758.30c5d37c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fK%od.89$Ua.33@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>

craig wrote:
> <CUT>
> 
>>>http://www.yuma.ca/wordpress/index.php?p=118
>>>
>>>It's not remotely close to a good release, and the code isn't error 
>>>checked very well, but my bot (yumatito) has been up about 7 days now on 
>>>AIM without crashing, that's a good sign :P  His torrent download 
>>>ability doesn't work yet, the code is there,  but broken, as I haven't 
>>>completely grasped how the btdownload code works yet.. feel free to fix 
>>>that for me :P
>>>
>>>Hope this helps,
>>>Craig
>>>
>>
>>Ah, could you possibly have a zip file?? I looked on your site and 
>>downloaded the BZ2 file, but I'm not sure how to extract it. I have 
>>Cygwin for another application, but I don't know how to get the files 
>>out the BZ2. So either a ZIP file or instructions on extracting files in 
>>  BZ2 files would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> 
> http://www.yuma.ca/wordpress/index.php?p=118
> All done, there is a ZIP file there.  I tried to email you off list,
> but it seemed to not go so well, so I'm posting here.

Thank you. It's much appreciated.


From roland.heiber at web.de  Thu Nov 25 07:35:27 2004
From: roland.heiber at web.de (Roland Heiber)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 13:35:27 +0100
Subject: redirecting stderr
In-Reply-To: <4edc17eb.0411250410.6b460253@posting.google.com>
References: <4edc17eb.0411250410.6b460253@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <co4jid$8tv$1@news.web.de>

Michele Simionato wrote:
> Maybe it is something obvious, but what is going on with this code?
> 
> import sys
> myerr = file("myerr.txt", "w")
> sys.stderr = myerr
> try:
>     raise Exception, "some error"
> finally:
>     myerr.close()
>     sys.stderr = sys.__stderr__
> 
> I would expect the error message to be written into "myerr.txt", instead
> it is displayed on the console, on regular stderr (?) and "myerr.txt" is
> empty. I guess I misunderstood something ...
> 
>                   Michele Simionato

Hi,

os.close(2)
os.dup2(myerr.fileno(), 2)

Works, but is dirty ...

HtH, Roland


From alban at magproductions.nl  Mon Nov  8 10:07:21 2004
From: alban at magproductions.nl (Alban Hertroys)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 16:07:21 +0100
Subject: psycopg, transactions and multiple cursors
In-Reply-To: <cmnvto$p6l$05$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <cmnqpk$2gh$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<cmnroq$raf$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<cmnso7$iih$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cmnud5$uph$1@news4.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<cmnvto$p6l$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cmo239$guj$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>>AFAIK, you can't open a transaction w/o using a cursor; You need a query
>>that says "BEGIN;".
>>You can commit a connection object, however. It would be nice to be able
>>to start a transaction on a connection object, but then you still could
>>only have one transaction per connection... :(
> 
> 
> thats actually the case for all DBs I know including e.g. oracle with jdbc -
> so the abstraction layers usually use connection pooling to speed up
> opening a connection thus the app doesn't suffer so much.

Ok, that means I won't get away with a single connection object (unless 
psycopg puts a connection pool in a single connection object).

> No idea why thats happening - on jdbc, one can set an "autocommit"
> connection property that will do exactly that: enforce a commit if a
> statement was successful. Maybe psycopg has that too?

Yes, it does have autoCommit, and thankfully it can be turned off (which 
I did, of course).

>>I know PostgreSQL can do transactions on nested cursors, I have used
>>that now and then in stored procedures (pl/pgsql).

> I didn't find much on nested cursors on google, so I don't know how they
> work - but I assume if they are part of psycopg, they somehow have to be
> created using an existing cursor, as otherwise how should psycopg know that
> what you want is a nested and not a new cursor.

Actually, nesting of cursors is something that PL/PgSQL can do. And so 
can PL/SQL in Oracle.
It's something that's possible on a low database API level, and (to my 
understanding) the DBAPI 2.0 uses them for queries. It's one of Pythons' 
advantages over eg. PHP, and one of the reasons I chose to use Python 
for this project.

> So is there something on cursor objecst to get a new cursor, or at least the
> connection so you can get a cursor on the very same connection?

A cursor is comparable to an iterator over a result set (where the 
cursor fetches one record from the database at a time).

You use one for every query, and it can often be reused for the next 
query as well.

However, if you loop through a result set (with a cursor) and you need 
to do a query based on the record that the cursor is currently 
positioned at, you can't use the same cursor again for that query, but 
need to open a new cursor. That's what I meant by "nesting cursors".

That shouldn't matter for the state of a transaction, though...

Maybe there's a difference between database level cursors and DB API 2.0 
level cursors in Python?

The number of questions is increasing...


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Sun Nov 21 07:00:04 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 21 Nov 2004 12:00:04 GMT
Subject: arrays
References: <a2f50cd.0411151042.45487164@posting.google.com>
	<87ekinsawp.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>
Message-ID: <Xns95A87A09D1D64duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Isaac To wrote:

>>>>>> "Rahul" == Rahul Garg <codedivine at gmail.com> writes:
> 
>     Rahul> Hi.  Is there someway i can get something similar to
>     Rahul> multi-dimensional arrays in python.I dont want to use
>     Rahul> Numarray.
> 
> Is an array of array sufficient?  Thinks like [[0]*5]*3.
> 
You were right to call that an array of array (singular): what you 
suggested creates a list containing 3 references to the same list. I 
suspect the OP is much more likely to want an array of arrays (plural).

The cleanest way these days is to use a list comprehension for all but the 
innermost list (provided the initial value is immutable):

[[0]*5 for i in range(3)]

or, if you want something mutable or more complex for an initial value you 
can just use list comprehensions throughout e.g.:

[ [(i*100+j) for i in range(5)] for j in range(3) ]


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 15:34:16 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:34:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmp6xu.zmiw6gs3250sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5890.1099529745.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmpyz8.11h86a71kjmdttN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5916.1099587353.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdntd$788$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5920.1099589545.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmqqa3.r7hg5g17qatxkN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041104T212845-942@post.gmane.org>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit <at> yahoo.com> writes:
> 
[snip description of using integer parts of float representation]
>
> Although the details were more antiquated, that was elementary stuff
> taught in electronic engineers' first-year computing courses back in the
> '70s, just in case we ever needed to code our own transcendentals (in
> Fortran, of course -- you weren't expected to master machine code unless
> you took computing electives in 3rd and later years, much less exoterica
> such as Pascal, Lisp or APL).  Is it considered advanced or specialized
> these days?!

I'm obviously upsetting you, and I can see that we're still not quite
understanding each other.  I have to assume that you're not the only one I'm
upsetting through these misunderstandings, so for the sake of the list, I'll
stop responding to this thread.  Thanks everyone for a good discussion!

Steve

P.S. If anyone would like to know my response to the float representation
example, please contact me directly instead.



From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Tue Nov 23 19:13:15 2004
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:13:15 -0600
Subject: Integrating w/ distutils, hooks?
Message-ID: <200411231813.15006.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

Some time ago, I got the idea that I wanted to build image 
resources from vector graphic originals, instead of 
marshalling hundreds of tiny little icon images by hand.
I wrote "BuildImage" to do this for me, and so far, it
works very well, so I'm trying to make it easier to use
and available to more developers.

There is a brief (and somewhat dated) tutorial explaining 
what BuildImage itself does at:

http://www.anansispaceworks.com/Documentation/BuildImage
"""
In as few words as I can put it: "BuildImage is a build 
system for image resources." That is to say, it attempts to 
do for image resources what make does for programs.
"""

So now, I'm looking for the best way to integrate the
BuildImage package with distutils to make it the least 
painful for developers to use in their own distutils' 
packages.

And I really feel this is something I should be talking to 
distutils-sig about. This is a little long -- but the idea 
is to spark some discussion about how I ought best to do 
this:



I originally tried making my interface look more like
distutils' interface -- providing a "setup" function, etc.
I was thinking perhaps I might be able to drop in BuildImage
scripts instead of distutils scripts in image resource
sub-packages of some kind.

But the end-user is unlikely to have BuildImage
installed, and I really want 'build' and 'install'
targets of the containing distribution to go without
a hitch with or without BuildImage (assuming the images are 
already built, that is), while the developer targets 
"sdist" and "bdist" should use BuildImage to create image 
resources and include them in the distribution.  Also,
I'm probably starting to duplicate distutils functionality,
which is wasteful.

Perhaps, emulating distutils is somewhat misguided -- I 
certainly don't want to replace distutils, I just want to 
work with it in a way that will be intuitive for the 
developer.  What I really want are hooks to attach to 
within distutils.

*Ideally*, BuildImage would run at the time you would 
normally run Bison/Flex code -- i.e. it actually is a 
"pre-source" operation: you run it to complete your source 
distribution, then you compile C/C++ code, THEN you install 
Python modules, etc.  I don't really see that distutils has 
this concept as yet, but it's probably a reasonable 
compromise to run it at the same time as C/C++ builds. (?)

If that's the right path, then "sdist" should simply include 
all the necessary files for BuildImage, and the installer 
will simply need to have BuildImage installed in their 
Python site-packages in order to build the package.

If not, then maybe 'sdist' should build the images, but
certainly include all the BuildImage sources so they can
be re-built. (?)

OTOH, "bdist" should go ahead and build the images, store 
them in the correct location in the distribution tree, and 
tell distutils that it should install them along with the 
sources.  (Pretty sure of this)

Is it conventional for 'bdist' to *also* include the source
files (i.e. in an open-source built distribution)?

I'm a little confused about HOW to tell distutils what and 
where to install: it seems that I might want to use the 
"data_files" option to setup, or perhaps I want to update 
the MANIFEST or MANIFEST.in files (can I somehow get my 
code called after processing MANIFEST.in to MANIFEST so I 
can then add my additional instructions?).

Modifying "MANIFEST.in" seems a little ugly, since the idea
is that MANIFEST.in is human-edited source, while "MANIFEST"
is machine-generated.  But I don't know how I can get my
code called to work on MANIFEST *after* it has been 
generated, but *before* it is used to install files.

Currently, I visualize a typical setup.py module using 
BuildImage as something like this:

"""
# setup.py using BuildImage

import distutils
try:
    # We don't want to fail if BuildImage is not available,
    # because we are also run by the end user
    import BuildImage
    BuildImage.setup(  ... options for BuildImage ... )
except:
    print """
          You don't have BuildImage installed, so only
          distutils operations will be supported.
          """

distutils.setup(  ... options for distutils ... )
"""

So, when the end-user runs the setup script, they will see
a message warning them that BuildImage targets won't work,
but distutils will be able to do its job.  OTOH, when the
developer runs the script to build the images, that will
work too, and BuildImage will do its thing.

Obviously, though, BuildImage.setup() has to be able to tell
distutils the things it needs to know, such as what to do
with the images after they are built (typically they will be
in a resource directory under the source tree?  But in a
distribution that insists on a filesystem standard, like
Debian, they should be under /usr/share/images or perhaps
/usr/share/pixmaps, etc).

Since BuildImage won't be run at 'build' or 'install' time,
these things have to already be prepared for distutils'
installer.

But BuildImage could be made aware of the requirements for
'bdist', 'bdist_rpm', 'bdist_deb', etc., and alter what
it tells distutils accordingly.

Anyway, thanks for your time -- any recommendations would
greatly be appreciated, including references to previous 
discussion or online resources I should be reading.

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com




From steve at ferg.org  Fri Nov 19 13:58:37 2004
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 10:58:37 -0800
Subject: Events
References: <MPG.1c08708d5ec6746c989688@news-server>
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0411191058.421247d@posting.google.com>

> Are there any really obvious things I should be doing with this code 

You might want to think about defining an event class.  There's a
cookbook recipe that addresses this kind of thing.  It is at
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/286136

I've been playing with a little program that I'm going to use in a
paper on event-driven programming.  It uses an event-class.  Also uses
a set rather than a list to hold the list of
observers/subscribers/listeners:

***************************************************************

import sets

class Dispatcher:
	def __init__( self ):
		# initialize a set of observers 
		# each observer includes the event-type that
		# it wants to observer
		self.myEventHandlers = sets.Set()

	def registerHandler( self, argEventHandler, argEventType ):
		self.myEventHandlers.add( (argEventHandler, argEventType) )

	def eventArrival(self, argEvent):
		# dispatch the event to the registered handlers
		self.notifyEventHandlers(argEvent)

	def notifyEventHandlers( self, argEvent):
		for anEventHandler, anEventType in self.myEventHandlers:
			if anEventType == argEvent.myEventType:
				# if the observer is registered for this type of event...
				anEventHandler.handle(argEvent) # ...send the event to it

class Event:
	def __init__(self, argEventType, argEventSource):
		self.myEventType   = argEventType
		self.myEventSource = argEventSource

class EventHandler:
	def __init__(self, argHandlerName):
		self.name = argHandlerName

	def handle(self, argEvent ):
		# for this simple example, all we do to handle
		# the event is print information about it
		print self.name , "is handling a", argEvent.myEventType, \
				"event from"   , argEvent.myEventSource


# create a dispatcher
demoDispatcher = Dispatcher()

# create some event handlers
demoHandler1 = EventHandler("Larry")
demoHandler2 = EventHandler("Moe  ")
demoHandler3 = EventHandler("Curly")

# define an event type
demoEventType = "LeftMouseDoubleClick"

# register the event handlers for that type of event
demoDispatcher.registerHandler( demoHandler1, demoEventType )
demoDispatcher.registerHandler( demoHandler2, demoEventType )
demoDispatcher.registerHandler( demoHandler3, demoEventType )

# generate an actual event
demoEvent = Event(demoEventType, "mouse") # "mouse" is the event
source

# send the event to the dispatcher
demoDispatcher.eventArrival(demoEvent)

****************************************************************


From exarkun at divmod.com  Mon Nov 15 21:04:15 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 02:04:15 GMT
Subject: nonblocking read()
In-Reply-To: <cnbgd0$ls4$1@news.apple.com>
Message-ID: <20041116020415.27631.1019852699.divmod.quotient.125@ohm>

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:08:00 -0800, Peter Ammon <peter_ammon at rocketmail.com> wrote:
>I would like to read from a pipe in which data may arrive slowly.  From 
> experimenting, it looks like os.read() will block until it returns the 
> maximum amount of data you asked for, in the second parameter to read(), 
> or until it hits EOF.  I cannot find a way to return only the data that 
> the file object has immediately available.
> 
> If no data is available, blocking is OK.
> 
> The only workaround I can think of is to call select() in a loop, 
> reading and storing one byte each time, and then returning them when 
> select() indicates that the pipe is not ready for reading.
> 
> Are there better approaches?  Thanks,
> 

  You can read all available bytes (up to the given limit, n) like this (taken from Twisted):

    def setNonBlocking(fd):
        """Make a fd non-blocking."""
        flags = fcntl.fcntl(fd, FCNTL.F_GETFL)
        flags = flags | os.O_NONBLOCK
        fcntl.fcntl(fd, FCNTL.F_SETFL, flags)

  Calling os.read(fd, n) after passing fd to setNonBlocking will return between 1 and n bytes, or raise an exception if no bytes are available.

  Jp


From riko.wichmann at remove-this.desy.de  Tue Nov 30 04:55:37 2004
From: riko.wichmann at remove-this.desy.de (Riko Wichmann)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:55:37 +0100
Subject: comment out more than 1 line at once?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6908.1101807392.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cohc71$2pqli$1@claire.desy.de>
	<mailman.6908.1101807392.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cohg3q$2q1b5$1@claire.desy.de>

I'm using emacs (with python-mode) to do most of my editing. also tried 
IDLE from python already, which is nice but an old dog doesn't like to 
learn new tricks :)

Maybe I just don't know to comment out whole blocks using editor 
commands. Probably the trick Marc mentions in the following post will do 
the job.

I use it to test pieces of a modules which usually is imported from 
another. For testing different parts, I usually have different __main__ 
sections in the file ....

Cheers,

	Riko

Aaron Bingham wrote:
> Riko Wichmann wrote:
> 
>> Dear all,
>>
>> is there a way in Python to comment out blocks of code without putting 
>> a # in front of each line? Somethings like C's
>>
>> /*
>>     block of code here is commented out
>> */
> 
> 
> No.  Why do you want this?  Any good programmer's editor will have a 
> comment/uncomment feature to make it easy to comment out whole blocks of 
> code at a time using the hash character ('#').
> 
> Aaron
> 


From davidf at sjsoft.com  Thu Nov 25 03:30:59 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 10:30:59 +0200
Subject: Newbie requires help me on how to use the ZipFile module please.
In-Reply-To: <8cf64c3d.0411241601.feca1f7@posting.google.com>
References: <8cf64c3d.0411241601.feca1f7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41A59843.8030301@sjsoft.com>

Ian Cook wrote:
> Hi,
> Can someone PLEASE shed some light on using the ZipFile module
> correctly.
> I'm new to python so please excuse me if this is a 'dumb' question.
> 
> If I use mode='a' then what happens is the zip file just gets bigger
> and bigger as the SAME file is appended to the zipfile.
> 
> If I use mode='w' then what happens is the zip file is erased before
> adding files to it. Therefore I lose the files that were in the
> original file zipfile.
> 
> What I want is to use the ZipFile module to UPDATE an existing zip
> file, rather than append, or create a new zip file. The zip file then
> contains my original files and any updated files.
> 
> Does anyone know how this can be done with the Zipfile module?
> 
> This is a snippet of the code I have now..
> 
>                 try:
>                     zf = zipfile.ZipFile(zfname,mode='a')
>                 except:
>                     zf = zipfile.ZipFile(zfname,mode='w')
>                     
>                 for name in cutflist:
>                     fp = os.path.join(root,name)
>                     print "adding ",fp,"...",
>                     compresstype = zipfile.ZIP_DEFLATED
>                     if zipfile.is_zipfile(fp):
>                         compresstype = zipfile.ZIP_STORED
>                     zf.write(fp,compress_type=compresstype)
>                     print 'done.'
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Ian Cook

Curious, I posted a reply to the similar question you posted a week or 
two ago, but it doesn't show up in google groups... even though I got it 
from my nntp server...
So I'll post it again and Cc you :-)
Instead of attaching the file, you can get it here:
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/*checkout*/translate/src/translate/misc/zipfileext.py?rev=1.3

> 
> This is the module translate.misc.zipfileext from translate.sourceforge.net
> I use it to do updating of zip files (it adds some stuff on top of the normal zipfile class that I should really submit as a patch :-) )
> Can't recall all the details but I think even so its a bit hairy.
> For an example you could look at http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/translate/src/translate/storage/xpi.py?rev=1.33&view=auto
> 
> The key method being this:
>   def overwritestr(self, zinfo_or_arcname, bytes):
>     """writes the string into the archive, overwriting the file if it exists..."""
>     if isinstance(zinfo_or_arcname, zipfile.ZipInfo):
>       filename = zinfo_or_arcname.filename
>     else:
>       filename = zinfo_or_arcname
>     if filename in self.NameToInfo:
>       self.delete(filename)
>     self.writestr(zinfo_or_arcname, bytes)
>     self.writeendrec()
> 
> Basically you need to delete existing files before you write to them if you want to replace them.
> 
> (This became more tricky) tricky as I was modifying zip files within zip files and trying to get them to store correctly, I ended up cloning the zip file objects, catching close events etc)
> Anyway maybe you can find something there that will help you.
> 
> David 


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Nov 22 23:56:34 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:56:34 +1100
Subject: Python and generic programming
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE72120C@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

And now a version that works with multiple arguments ...

    import itertools

    def generic (genfunc):
        speclist = []

        def wrapf (*args):
            typs = tuple(type(arg) for arg in args if not
isinstance(arg, type))
            assert len(args) == len(typs)

            for specfunc, specs, typs in speclist:
                if len(args) != len(typs):
                    continue

                for arg, spec, typ in itertools.izip(args, specs, typs):
                    if isinstance(spec, type):
                        if not isinstance(arg, typ):
                            break
                    elif (arg != spec) or (not isinstance(arg, typ)):
                        break
                else:
                    return specfunc(*args)

            return genfunc(*args)

        wrapf.wrappedfunc = genfunc
        wrapf.speclist = speclist
        wrapf.func_name = genfunc.func_name

        return wrapf

    def specialised (genf, *specifiers):
        try:
            genf = genf.genfunc
        except AttributeError:
            pass

        assert len(specifiers) == genf.wrappedfunc.func_code.co_argcount

        def spd(specf):

            assert len(specifiers) == specf.func_code.co_argcount

            typs = []

            for s in specifiers:
                if isinstance(s, type):
                    typs.append(s)
                else:
                    typs.append(type(s))

            typs = tuple(typs)

            genf.speclist[:0] = [(specf, specifiers, typs)]
            return specf

        spd.genfunc = genf
        return spd

    # For my US friends ;)
    specialized = specialised

    @generic
    def some_function (arg):
        print "generic - %r" % (arg,)

    @specialised(some_function, int)
    @specialised(some_function, long)
    def some_specific_function(arg):
        print "int-specific - %r" % (arg,)

    @specialised(some_function, float)
    def some_specific_function(arg):
        print "float-specific - %r" % (arg,)

    @specialised(some_function, 1)
    @specialised(some_function, 1.0)
    @specialised(some_function, 1L)
    def some_specific_function(arg):
        print "one-specific - %r" % (arg,)

    @generic
    def other_function (arg1, arg2):
        print "generic - %r, %r" % (arg1, arg2)

    @specialised(other_function, 1, object)
    def other_specific_function (arg1, arg2):
        print "1/object - %r, %r" % (arg1, arg2)

    @specialised(other_function, int, float)
    def other_specific_function (arg1, arg2):
        print "int/float - %r, %r" % (arg1, arg2)

    @specialised(other_function, 1, float)
    def other_specific_function (arg1, arg2):
        print "1/float - %r, %r" % (arg1, arg2)

    @specialised(other_function, 1, 2.0)
    def other_specific_function (arg1, arg2):
        print "1/2.0 - %r, %r" % (arg1, arg2)

    if __name__ == '__main__':
        some_function('abc')
        some_function(itertools)
        some_function(123)
        some_function(123L)
        some_function(123.0)
        some_function(1)
        some_function(1.0)
        some_function(1L)
        print
        other_function(2, 2)
        other_function(1, 2.0)
        other_function(1, 1.0)
        other_function(2, 2.0)
        other_function(1, 2)

In cases where more than one specialisation would match, the most
recently added will be used i.e. in the above, for other_function(1,
1.0) will use (int, float) even though (1, object) would also match. So
it's important to create functions in the correct order.

This is starting to get recipe-worthy - but I want to see what happens
with methods first ...

Tim Delaney


From ville at spammers.com  Tue Nov 30 06:31:09 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 13:31:09 +0200
Subject: Python on Nokia Phones ?
References: <8d851104.0411300047.1ea17809@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <du78y8jo9oi.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Mark" == Mark Doukidis <mdoukidis at gmail.com> writes:

    Mark> An exciting prospect when I first heard of Nokia's proposal.

    Mark> I thought there would be a few more postings here since the
    Mark> idea first surfaced around Jan 2004.

Do realize that giants like Nokia move slow and make a minimum amount
of noise about what they are doing. They (Nokia) seemed pretty excited
about the prospects back in the June workshop:

http://www.forum.nokia.com/main/0,,4_22,00.html

I think I'll try to check out whether they have come up with a new
version. There are lots of changes happening with S60 / Symbian OS in
general ATM, so I wouldn't be surprised if they chose to delay Python
a little bit, at least as far as shipping it with the phones goes.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From dave.benjamin at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 03:03:21 2004
From: dave.benjamin at gmail.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 01:03:21 -0700
Subject: pep 336:  Make None Callable
In-Reply-To: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <cilid.75908$bk1.56390@fed1read05>

The Eternal Squire wrote:
> 
>     None should be a callable object that when called with any
>     arguments has no side effect and returns None.
> 

This is how ActionScript works, and to be honest I strongly dislike this 
behavior. It hides bugs, and to make things worse, the null often 
bubbles up someplace entirely different from where the error initially 
occurred. This makes debugging a pain in the ass.

I'd prefer to just write a NullObject if I need one. Otherwise, I like 
Python's behavior, which is more fail-fast and less error-prone. IMHO.

But thanks for putting the idea out. I think Objective C does something 
similar--is this the case? It does have the convenient effect of 
allowing you to pass null as an event listener if you just want to 
ignore events from a GUI object, for instance, but it's just not worth 
the price.

Dave


From programmer.py at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 09:57:21 2004
From: programmer.py at gmail.com (Jaime Wyant)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 08:57:21 -0600
Subject: Arugument list too long on Linux System
In-Reply-To: <cm5i62$i30$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <cm5i62$i30$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <d52c72d204110106575c4ecca5@mail.gmail.com>

If your python script processed '*.jpg' files, then you could probably
get away with using the glob module ->

import glob
files_to_process = glob.glob( "/path/to/files/*.jpg" )
for f in files_to_process:
  tar_it.add(f)

Something like that ought to be close to what you need.  I'm not sure
what the limitation is to commandline arguments, so I can't be much
help there :(.

jw

tar_it = tarfile.open("%s.tar" %real_time, "w")
for root, dirs, files in os.walk(path):
>        for f in files:
>           jpg = os.path.splitext(f)
>          ## If the file has a '.jpg' extension add it to the tar file.
>           if jpg[1] == '.jpg':
>             tar_it.add(f)

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 09:45:22 -0500, Brad Tilley <bradtilley at gmail.com> wrote:
> I was using Python to tar up some files each day in a directory by
> calling os.popen("/bin/tar.......).
> Everything was working well until the app that generated the files was
> set to generate a file every two seconds for nine hours each day (16,200
> files each day). After this I began getting this error:
> 
> "Argument list too long"
> 
> This would happen from the script or from the command line invoking tar
> natively. So, I wrote my way around this by using this code:
> 
>     tar_it = tarfile.open("%s.tar" %real_time, "w")
>     for root, dirs, files in os.walk(path):
>        for f in files:
>           jpg = os.path.splitext(f)
>          ## If the file has a '.jpg' extension add it to the tar file.
>           if jpg[1] == '.jpg':
>             tar_it.add(f)
> 
> But, I don't understand why I got this error in the first place. I use a
> rather robust Debian GNU\Linux system (3.2GHz proc, 2GB DDR400 RAM, 15K
> SCSI drives) what causes this type of error? This is not really a Python
> issue, but I thought some knowledgeable users on the list might be
> willing to explain it.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Brad
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Sat Nov 27 08:06:02 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 14:06:02 +0100
Subject: executable from python cod
References: <77969915.0411241036.553c3da3@posting.google.com>
	<co2p3s$inq$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<77969915.0411261142.1bcca34c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <co9u3q$de4$02$1@news.t-online.com>

> No i need it help.
> I created small compiler(real, not packer - like py2exe) to compile
> basic python code(to work compiled program - not need it python??.dll
> or *.pyd files). Simple py programs, after compiling has size 1-3,4
> kb. But i don't know if it need... That's why i ask you.


When it works - sure, I bet a lot of people are interested.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From andrea.valle at unito.it  Wed Nov  3 02:56:22 2004
From: andrea.valle at unito.it (andrea valle)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 08:56:22 +0100
Subject: pickling a dict
In-Reply-To: <jp-dnZcQn6m6sBXcRVn-qg@rogers.com>
References: <783d0f8c.0411012330.4172d1d4@posting.google.com><pan.2004.11.02.08.46.20.216993@gmx.de><20041102083027.F7CC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5850.1099438033.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<jp-dnZcQn6m6sBXcRVn-qg@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <DA569991-2D6D-11D9-A5F6-0003939C968C@unito.it>


> First of all, your posting shows up as part of the "Newbie question" 
> thread
> and not as a new thread.  You probably replied or followed up to a 
> posting
> in that thread and you only changed the subject line.  Please don't do 
> that.
>

Yes, it's true. I'm really sorry. I didn't know about this fact. (Where 
is these info about thread recorded??)

> BTW, does your save( ) function also take minutes?  If it takes much 
> less
> than the open( ) function, my guess would be that pickle is not the 
> problem.

You're guessing fine: it takes much less. So effectively it should 
depend on my other functions. I hadn't considered that.

Thanks a lot for your help.

Best

-a-


Andrea Valle
Laboratorio multimediale "G. Quazza"
Facolt? di Scienze della Formazione
Universit? degli Studi di Torino
andrea.valle at unito.it


From jdadson at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 20 02:09:52 2004
From: jdadson at yahoo.com (Jive Dadson)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 07:09:52 GMT
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <mailman.5272.1098381729.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm17og.ctwoqv17vkctxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <419EEEAA.D3C1046F@yahoo.com>



Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote:
> 
> > I wonder, does Python support generic programming paradigm, and to what extent
> 
> It appears to me to support generics at least as well as C++ does.  I
> just write normal code (no typechecks) and voila, the equivalent of C++
> templates (at least).  What do you think is missing?
> 
> Alex

How about specialization?  I'm relatively new to Python.  I ask for
information, not to be argumentative.

If you have, for example, several data-types for matrices, how do you
write code that will automatically find the right routine for quickly
multiplying a vector by a diagonal matrix represented as a vector, and
automatically call the right code for multiplying by a sparse matrix
represented by some sparse coding, etc?


From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Tue Nov  2 05:23:12 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 10:23:12 GMT
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<Xns9591642B12E85duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <slrncoeo0g.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>

>      printf("value is %d", f);

This seems a very good example to me.

Note that this is also an example showing that C++ does contain a little
bit of dynamic typing, too, isn't it?

Cheers,
gab.

-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| There are works which wait,                                             |
| and which one does not understand for a long time; [...]                |
| for the question often arrives a terribly long time after the answer.   |
|                                                         (Oscar Wilde)   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Sun Nov 21 18:55:48 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:55:48 GMT
Subject: generic object implementation
Message-ID: <8W9od.373195$wV.310530@attbi_s54>

So I'm trying to get a prototype implementation of the 'generic object' 
type.  (I'm currently calling it 'bunch', but only because I can't 
really think of anything better.)  I'd like some feedback on what 
methods it needs to support.  Ideally I'd keep this as minimal as 
possible...

Remember that the goal of the 'generic object' type is to allow the 
programmer to make the design decision that attribute-style access is 
more appropriate than []-style access.  Given that, my feeling is that 
the 'generic object' type should *not* support __(get|set|del)item__ , 
though I'm still undecided on __len__, __iter__, __contains__, items, 
keys, values, etc.

Here's what I have currently:

import operator as _operator

class bunch(object):
     def __init__(self, **kwds):
         self.__dict__.update(kwds)

     def __eq__(self, other):
         if not isinstance(other, bunch):
             return False
         attrs = set(self.__dict__)
         if attrs != set(other.__dict__):
             return False
         for attr in attrs:
             if not getattr(self, attr) == getattr(other, attr):
                 return False
         return True

     def __repr__(self):
         return '%s(%s)' % (self.__class__.__name__,
                            ', '.join('%s=%r' % (k, v)
                                      for k, v in self.__dict__.items()))

     def update(self, other):
         self.__dict__.update(other.__dict__)

     @classmethod
     def frommapping(cls, mapping,
                     getkeys=iter, getitem=_operator.getitem):
         result = bunch()
         for key in getkeys(mapping):
             value = getitem(mapping, key)
             try:
                 value = bunch.frommapping(value)
             except TypeError:
                 pass
             setattr(result, key, value)
         return result


From ch.pingel at web.de  Mon Nov 22 16:06:53 2004
From: ch.pingel at web.de (Christoph Pingel)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:06:53 +0100
Subject: crash when loading a lib on OS X
Message-ID: <a06100501bdc80449cbbb@[84.135.221.55]>

Can anybody tell me what's going on here (or give me a pointer where 
to start looking):

Nov 22 18:05:03 localhost crashdump: Unable to determine 
CPSProcessSerNum pid: 1230 name: python

This is form python.crash.log

------

Command: python
Path:    /usr/bin/python
Version: ??? (???)
PID:     1230
Thread:  0

Exception:  EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes:      KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x00000004

Thread 0 Crashed:
0   org.python.python           	0x10094c4c PyErr_NewException 
+ 0x18c (errors.c:544)
1   orange.so                   	0x020223b8 
makeExceptionClass(char*, char*, _object*) + 0x94
2   orange.so                   	0x021c8c74 initorange + 0x30
3   org.python.Python.framework 	0x95fc1bc4 
_PyImport_LoadDynamicModule + 0xcc
4   org.python.Python.framework 	0x95fbf7a4 
PyImport_ExecCodeModuleEx + 0x17b8
5   org.python.Python.framework 	0x95fc08c4 
PyImport_ImportModuleEx + 0x930
6   org.python.Python.framework 	0x95fc02e0 
PyImport_ImportModuleEx + 0x34c
7   org.python.Python.framework 	0x95fbfe00 PyImport_ImportModule + 0xc8
8   org.python.Python.framework 	0x95fbffd4 
PyImport_ImportModuleEx + 0x40
9   org.python.Python.framework 	0x95f9cbf0 
_PyUnicodeUCS2_IsAlpha + 0x90
10  org.python.Python.framework 	0x95f4a8d0 PyObject_Call + 0x30
11  org.python.Python.framework 	0x95fa91ec 
PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords + 0x100
12  org.python.Python.framework 	0x95fa6984 PyEval_EvalCode + 0x2280
13  org.python.Python.framework 	0x95fa7e30 PyEval_EvalCodeEx + 0x850
14  org.python.Python.framework 	0x95fa4734 PyEval_EvalCode + 0x30
15  org.python.Python.framework 	0x95fc85f0 PyRun_FileExFlags + 0xe4
16  org.python.Python.framework 	0x95fc7354 
PyRun_InteractiveOneFlags + 0x1f0
17  org.python.Python.framework 	0x95fc713c 
PyRun_InteractiveLoopFlags + 0x10c
18  org.python.Python.framework 	0x95fc6fd4 PyRun_AnyFileExFlags + 0x54
19  org.python.Python.framework 	0x95fd1ec0 Py_Main + 0x7cc
20  python                      	0x00003c78 start + 0x1bc
21  python                      	0x00003aec start + 0x30

------

I'm afraid that something's wrong with my system, but I had a hard 
time googling for getCPSProcessSerNum: it returned 0 results. Same at 
Apple's site...

What does CPS mean?

Thanks for any input,
best,
Christoph


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Nov  9 13:37:40 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 12:37:40 -0600
Subject: Concise idiom to initialize dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <89D59C407D04D54AA82DC8BA312D430D10C61759@enyc11p32001.corpny.csfb.com>
References: <89D59C407D04D54AA82DC8BA312D430D10C61759@enyc11p32001.corpny.csfb.com>
Message-ID: <20041109183738.GF3567@unpythonic.net>

The documentation (docs.python.org, not help(locals)) makes it clear
that this is not intended to work:

 locals()
     Update and return a dictionary representing the current local
     symbol table. Warning: The contents of this dictionary should not
     be modified; changes may not affect the values of local variables
     used by the interpreter. 

Perhaps you want a dict of dicts.
    d = dict([(s, {}) for s in 'abc...z'])
now refer to d['a'][key] instead of a[key]

Python has good reasons to forbid the modification of locals().  The
most important may be that for each function, static analysis determines
whether a particular name is local or not:  A name is local if it is
assigned and there is no 'global' statement for that name.  The
following code would treat x as global, because it is never assigned:
    def f():
        locals()['x'] = 3
        return x

Jeff
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From ncoghlan at email.com  Tue Nov 30 06:18:26 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:18:26 +1000
Subject: slicing, mapping types, ellipsis etc.
In-Reply-To: <m34qj8e5yd.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
References: <m34qj8e5yd.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
Message-ID: <41ac5701$0$25761$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Jerry Sievers wrote:
> Fellow Pythonists;
> 
> I am totally puzzled on the use of slicing on mapping types and

It's generally not supported (since slices are designed to work with the 
numerical indices of a sequence, not the arbitrary keys of a mapping).

The results of d.keys(), d.values() & d.items() can all be sliced like any other 
sequence, though.

> especially unsure on use of the Ellipsis... and slicing syntax that
> has two or more groups seperated by comma.

Others have explained these - one point that may not have been entirely clear is 
that none of the classes in the standard library make use of these (although the 
point may have been implied by the references to PyNumeric as the place to look 
for more exact documentation. Python's own documentation of the slice() builtins 
makes reference to Numeric!).

Cheers,
Nick.



From wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca  Thu Nov 25 14:37:54 2004
From: wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca (Weiguang Shi)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 19:37:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: dictionary initialization
References: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<41a62df4.1003031613@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <slrncqcd4j.i1p.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>

Hi,

In article <41a62df4.1003031613 at news.oz.net>, Bengt Richter wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 18:38:17 +0000 (UTC), wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca 
> (Weiguang Shi) wrote:
>You wrote it, so you have to "justify" it ;-)
I guess :-) 

>While I agree that ++ and -- are handy abbreviations, and creating a
>key by default makes for concise notation,  a[i]++ means you have to
>make some narrow assumptions ...
Right, though generalization can be painful for the uninitiated/newbie.

>You can certainly make a dict subclass that behaves that way if you
>want it:
> ...
This is nice even for someone hopelessly lazy as me.

>
>Otherwise the usual ways are along the lines of
>...
I would happily avoid them all.

Thanks a lot,
Weiguang


From koko9991 at compuserve.de  Sun Nov  7 04:10:10 2004
From: koko9991 at compuserve.de (Konrad Koller)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 09:10:10 GMT
Subject: New Python Books?
References: <1099427406.763633.285680@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <418de5e2.75659078@news.compuserve.de>

On 2 Nov 2004 12:30:06 -0800, ryan at ryankaskel.com wrote:

>I love reading books on Python and have almost all of them. However, it
>seems that there aren't any new ones currently being written that
>aren't for beginners. Does anyone know of any plans for future Python
>books that cover specific topics like wxPython or mod_python (like
>O'reilly's mod_perl and also their book on PerlTk). Thanks.
>
>Ryan Kaskel
>
I recommend: H.P.Langtangen: Python Scripting for Computational
Science. Excellent!
Konrad Koller


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Nov 30 15:30:16 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:30:16 -0600
Subject: weird behaviour of "0 in [] is False"
References: <pan.2004.11.30.12.57.59.582543@nospam.logilab.fr>
	<coi1hc$9go$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <10qpm2qpsphal6e@news.supernews.com>


"Paul Robson" <autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in 
message news:coi1hc$9go$1 at news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Sylvain Thenault wrote:
>
>>>>> l = []
>>>>> 0 in (l is False)
>
> (l is False) is not a tuple or list, it's a boolean value.
>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>> File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>> TypeError: iterable argument required
>>>>> (0 in l) is False
>> True
>
> 0 in l is False becuase l is empty, so it's False is False which is true,
> (except in Intercal probably and Visual C++)
>
>>>>> 0 in l is False
>> False
>
> l is False is False because l is not the value false though it has a false
> value (err.....)
>
> Okay.
>
> l != False because it's not the displayed value false
>
> but if not l would evaluated to true because [] is a false equivalent.
>
> 0 in False .... okay.... this should be an error ..... something to do 
> with
> the equivalence confusion of what False is ?

It's not an error. As one of the first responders said, check
the language definition. That defines both 'in' and 'is'
as equality operators, and defines exactly what a chain
of equality operators means.

In this case, it means:

(0 in l) and (l is False)

The and short circuits, giving the result of False without
ever doing the final comparison.

Granted, that's not exactly obvious...

John Roth


>
>
> 



From tom at tompurl.com  Mon Nov  8 15:17:19 2004
From: tom at tompurl.com (Tom Purl)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 14:17:19 -0600
Subject: Mixing Python And Bash
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.08.20.17.18.863725@tompurl.com>

I just wrote a Python script that is going to be called from bash script.
 If the Python script fails, I want the bash script to also stop running. 
 Unfortunately, I can't seem to get that to work.  Here's the script so
 far:

# custom python script
/usr/bin/python /home/username/Dev/Python/packZODB.py \ 
  -s"gsgmc.sigma.zettai.net" -b 7

# next program
/usr/bin/someOtherProgram

I don't want the second program to run if the first program fails.  Isn't
that the default in bash?  If someone could please point me in the right
direction regarding this problem, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks in advance!

Tom Purl



From theller at python.net  Fri Nov  5 12:31:39 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 18:31:39 +0100
Subject: py2exe 0.5.4 released
References: <mailman.5337.1098471964.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4pulo0tjm2se1p10apth81sn4p6a9mh6g8@4ax.com>
	<4qk4wq6k.fsf@python.net> <554no051vbnq7os9hs0b1kov9p2a9c60g7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ekj8urr8.fsf@python.net>

Mark A. Munza <commander at REMOVEME.flying-horses.net> writes:

> On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 11:22:43 +0100, Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote:
>
>>There seems a problem with the mirrors.  One (the only one?) that works
>>is optusnet mirror in australia.
>>
>>http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/py2exe/py2exe-0.5.4.win32-py2.3.exe?use_mirror=optusnet
>>
>>Thomas
>
> If you have the py2.3 version could I trouble you to email a copy to me?

Doesn't the above link work for you?

Thomas


From tjordah at start.no  Fri Nov 26 04:24:04 2004
From: tjordah at start.no (Lars Moastuen)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 01:24:04 -0800
Subject: Extending classes written in C++ using SWIG
References: <99efe53b.0411250614.1f0c0e3c@posting.google.com>	<tyfzn16dk7x.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.6788.1101400792.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <99efe53b.0411260124.34f36ff@posting.google.com>

Thx for your replies.

It seems I have created an example I thought were equal to my problem,
but it turned out that wasn't the case. I'm trying to figure out what
the difference is, but I find the classes quite similar to the example
below (too big to post here)... However, this problem can be solved by
using "directors" (http://www.swig.org/Doc1.3/Python.html#directors),
mine cannot...

Im currently testing if Boost.Python does the job better, but seems I
run into the same problem... I suspect it has something to do with STL
list or something, but I'm not sure yet...

Will post if I manage to create an example or if I find a solution.


"Phil Thompson" <phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk> wrote in message news:<mailman.6788.1101400792.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> > tjordah at start.no (Lars Moastuen) writes:
> >
> >> class Bar
> >> {
> >> public:
> >> 	Bar() {};
> >> 	~Bar() {};
> >> 	virtual char* DoBar() const { return "Bar"; };
> >> };
> >>
> >> class Foo
> >> {
> >> public:
> >> 	Foo() {};
> >> 	~Foo() {};
> >> 	virtual void DoFoo(Bar* someBar) { cout << someBar->DoBar() << endl;
> >> };
> >> };
>  
> >> class ExtendedBar(Bar):
> >> 	def __init__(self):
> >> 		Bar.__init__(self);
> >>
> >> 	def DoBar(self):
> >> 		return "ExtendedBar";
> >>
> >> bar = ExtendedBar();
> >> foo = Foo();
> >> foo.DoFoo(bar);
>  
> >> I now expect to get "ExtendedBar" as output from UseFoo.py (since I've
> >> declared DoBar() as virtual, but I get "Bar"
>  
> >> Can anyone tell me why?
> >
> > Because "someBar->DoBar()" uses the vtable of the C++ dynamic type to
> > decide which actual DoBar method to call. Unfortunately there is no
> > C++ type corresponding to your ExtendedBar, there is no vtable for
> > your ExtendedBar type in C++. C++ only knows about C++ types; it is
> > unaware of the existence of Python types. Inside your Python instance
> > of ExtendedBar you are holding on to an instance of a C++ Bar.
> >
> >> Is there a way to remedy this??
> >
> > I don't know whether SWIG provides a boxed solution for this sort of
> > problem. One approach is to override the DoBar method in a subclass of
> > Bar in C++, and make that method pass the 'dispatch request' up into
> > Python. Then you expose the wrapper class in Python, rather than Bar
> > itself.
> >
> > It looks something like this:
> >
> > struct PseudoBar : public Bar {
> >         PyObject* self; // the Python instance wrapping this C++ instance
> >         void DoFoo () {
> >                 PyObject_CallMethod(this->self, "DoFoo", "");
> >         }
> > };
> >
> > Of course, you'll need to augment this with checks to ensure that
> > there really is something overriding the method, otherwise you'll end
> > up in an infinite loop ... but hopefully you get the idea. It's all a
> > bit tedious.
> 
> If SWIG really requires you to do this by hand (I'm surprised) then you
> might want to look at SIP (http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/sip/). SIP
> generates code that does exactly what you suggest so that bindings behave
> as the OP was expecting.
> 
> Phil


From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 26 00:06:59 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 00:06:59 -0500
Subject: Subclassing complex with computed arguments
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6798.1101436247.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6798.1101436247.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41a6b8a3$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>

Jp Calderone wrote:
> On 25 Nov 2004 14:30:18 -0800, pcolsen at comcast.net (Peter Olsen) wrote:
> 
>>I want to define a class "point" as a subclass of complex.  
>>
>>When I create an instance 
>>
>>sample = point(<arglist>) 
>>
>>I want "sample" to "be" a complex number, but with its real and
>>imaginary parts computed in point()'s __init__ function with their
>>values based on the arglist.  I want to compute with point instances
>>as though they were native complex numbers, but I want to be able to
>>define some new methods and over-ride some of complex's existing ones.
> 
>   Something like this?
> 
>>>>class simple(complex):
> 
> ...     def __new__(cls, real=0, imag=0):
> ...             return super(simple, cls).__new__(cls, real + 1, imag + 1)
> ...

Unfortunately operations on 'simple' objects will return 'complex' 
results. This is probably not what the OP wants.

 >>> class point(complex):
...   def __new__(cls, x, y):
...     return complex.__new__(point, x*2, y*2)
...
 >>> p=point(1,2)
 >>> p
(2+4j)
 >>> type(p)
<class '__main__.point'>
 >>> p2=p+1
 >>> p2
(3+4j)
 >>> type(p2)
<type 'complex'>

I don't know if there is an easy way around this. A brute force approach 
might be to override __add__(), etc to return point objects instead of 
complex - though I haven't been able to figure out how to do this. I tried:
     def __add__(self, *args, **kwds):
         val = complex.__add__(self, *args, **kwds)
         return point(val)

but val is NotImplemented instead of the desired sum ??

I had more luck with a delegation-based approach:

class point(object):
     def __init__(self, *args, **kwds):
         if len(args) == 1 and isinstance(args[0], complex):
             self.c = args[0]
         if len(args) == 2:
             self.c = complex(args[0]*2, args[1]*2)
         else:
             self.c = complex(*args, **kwds)

     def __add__(self, y):
         val = self.c+y
         return point(val)

     def __repr__(self):
         return 'point' + self.c.__repr__()


p=point(1,2)
print p
p1 = p+1
print p1

prints:
point(2+4j)
point(3+4j)

I was hoping that the special methods of point could delegate to the 
corresponding special method of complex, so the delegation could be 
automated, but again I couldn't get this to work. Maybe someone else can 
explain this? For example if c is a complex number, why does 
c.__add__(1) return NotImplemented?

I tried adding a delegating __coerce__() to class point but it is never 
called...

Call me confused...
Kent

> 
>>>>simple(3, 4)
> 
> (4+5j)
> 
> 
>   The trick is that since complex instances are immutable, you need to change the initialization parameters before the instance is ever created.  __new__ is the hook for that.
> 
>   Jp


From behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de  Mon Nov  8 07:15:19 2004
From: behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 13:15:19 +0100
Subject: Import Python Class/methods into C++
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6110.1099913222.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6110.1099913222.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmno0n$nt$2@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>

Keith Moore schrieb:
> Can anyone show me an example of how to import a python class into a C++
> program?
> I am able to use PyImort_ImportModule to import a module, and
> PyObject_GetAttrString to import the function from the module.
> Now I converted that module to a class.  I need to import methods from that
> class into my C++ program.

Have you tried elmer?

http://elmer.sourceforge.net/

Stefan


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Thu Nov  4 15:08:59 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 15:08:59 -0500
Subject: Storing objects in dictionary
In-Reply-To: <8C53AAFA2050EE40BDCDB9455DA7D6340C6266@sw720ex020.visa.com>
References: <8C53AAFA2050EE40BDCDB9455DA7D6340C6266@sw720ex020.visa.com>
Message-ID: <418A8C5B.20508@bellsouth.net>

Feghhi, Jalil wrote:

>I get an error storing an object in a dictionary. The dictionary and the object are both provided by mod_python. One is the session object (which is just a dictionary) and one is a FieldStorage object (I think it is a class but displays as a dictionary). My question is what is the requirement for an object to be able to store it in a dictionary? I am sure there is documentaion somewehre but I couldn't find it.
>
>Regards,
>
>-Jalil
>  
>
Are you trying to use the session object as a key in the dictionary or a 
value of a key?  What error are you getting?  You should be able to put 
anything into a dictionary (AFAIK) as a key, but only hashable objects 
can be put in as keys.


Jeremy Jones


From walter at livinglogic.de  Fri Nov  5 04:59:43 2004
From: walter at livinglogic.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Walter_D=F6rwald?=)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 10:59:43 +0100
Subject: Extract Title from HTML documents
In-Reply-To: <cme4ae$12ci$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
References: <cme4ae$12ci$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <418B4F0F.4020707@livinglogic.de>

Nickolay Kolev wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I am looking for a way to extract the titles of HTML documents. I have 
> made an honest attempt at doing it, and it even works. Is there an 
> easier (faster / more efficient / clearer) way?

You might try XIST (http://www.livinglogic.de/Python/xist):
---
from ll.xist import parsers, xfind
from ll.xist.ns import html

e = parsers.parseFile("test.html", tidy=True)
print unicode(xfind.first(e//html.title))
---
(This uses libxml2's HTML parser internally).

Bye,
    Walter D?rwald



From sxanth at ceid.upatras.gr  Sun Nov 14 03:55:12 2004
From: sxanth at ceid.upatras.gr (Stelios Xanthakis)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 00:55:12 -0800
Subject: [PATCH] Some new stuff
Message-ID: <newscache$7c357i$0gl$1@asterix.tee.gr>

Hi all.

Basically, I'd like to use python as my system shell. It's not suitable 
for a general purpose shell but since it is very programmable it can 
eventually do whatever bash does and even more.

One thing I'd like python to do is: attach the *python code* of a 
function to a function object. The same for class.

This can be done in python as it is but it doesn't feel very right. I 
think it should be the job of the parser. So there is a patch vs 2.3.4 at:
  http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~sxanth/ISYSTEM/python-PIESS.tar.bz2

With this patch when the command line option -P is passed to python,
all functions and classes have an extra member __pycode__ which is the
code of the thing!


This is very exciting because if combined with a function 'save()' which
looks for all the functions/classes in globals(), takes their __pycode__ 
and saves it to a file (along with it's own code: save.__pycode__) can 
lead to a really fun Python Incremental Expert System Shell.

Such a sample system is also included in the tar file.
For example we can say:
   lsfunc()     # lists all functions
   pr (lsfunc)  # prints definition of lsfunc
   ed (pr)      # edits the function 'pr'
   save ()      # saves all and we go to sleep



Cheers

Stelios


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  4 03:36:01 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:36:01 +0100
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmp6xu.zmiw6gs3250sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5890.1099529745.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gmpyz8.11h86a71kjmdttN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:

> Alex Martelli <aleaxit <at> yahoo.com> writes:
> >
> > Steven Bethard <steven.bethard <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > On the other hand, I haven't really seen any good
> > > cases for wanting weak-typing in a statically-typed language either.
> > 
> > How would an operating system's filesystems store arbitrary sequences of
> > bytes (which might be floats, int, whatever -- only the application
> > knows) into disk pages (blocks of, say , 4096 bytes each) otherwise?
> 
> Valid point of course.  But the OS doesn't really take advantage of
> weak-typing here if it takes an arbitrary sequence of bytes and stores an
> arbitrary sequence of bytes.  I haven't written much OS code (just a
> prototype system back in undergrad), but I never cast one type of struct
> to another -- to and from void*, but never between types.

Is the OS going to be able to read something from disk and *USE* it?

> Of course, I'm sure there're are a number of good reasons to do so -- my
> claim was only that I hadn't seen them.  I'd be grateful if you could
> point me to an example.  =)

Suppose for example that you would like your OS to be able to load
executable code from disk into memory and execute it.  Suppose you would
like it to be able to read some configuration parameters from disk and
set its own internal data structures accordingly.  At one level, as it
goes to disk or comes back from there, you have arrays of bytes.  But in
memory, you want functions that can be called appropriately (a device
driver residing in a module) or data structures which, differently from
an array of byte, DO have structure -- for example, a partition table
for a disk, with information to specific filesystem drivers as to what
partition is to be treated in what way.

I don't understand how you can have failed to see a zillion more
examples of operating systems actively _using_ data read from disk,
since it's such a widespread phenomenon nowadays.

 
> > Even if you design a new OS based on a filesystem whose files are all
> > "strongly typed"
> 
> You really do think I'm satan, don't you? ;)

I'm old enough to have fought my way through filesystems more strongly
typed than plain streams of bytes, sure -- Unix was already around but
not all-pervasive yet.  I remember peripherals which wanted streams, but
streams of _SIX_-bit "bytes" -- so you had to have somewhere a pack-and-
unpack routine that could take (e.g.) a block of 48 8-bit bytes and
reinterpret it as a block of 64 6-bit bytes, or viceversa.  I hope there
aren't any more of _those_ around -- but in exchange we have, for
example, pervasive issues of unicode vs byte streams and encodings.

It's not just files, either.  We have memory sliced up into pages, and a
page is, say, a well defined object of 4096 bytes.  But we want to be
able to store all different kinds of stuff into those bytes - we HAVE
to, in fact, because that is all the memory we have... all pages...

If your point is that all you need is, not to "overlay" different
structures onto the same address, but "just" to overlay "look at this as
raw bytes" upon any structure and viceversa -- can't you see you're
doing exactly the same thing with just one conceptual extra step?
Instead of
    struct foo* p = ...;
    struct bar* q = (struct bar*) p;
you're thinking
    struct foo* p = ...;
    void *v = (void *) p;
    struct bar* q = (struct bar*) v;
but it's just the same thing, and v can be optimized away.

Above the lowest levels, you can get away with (at least conceptually)
copying stuff in order to be able to reinterpret bits, as you can do in
Python with x = struct.unpack(f1, struct.pack(f2, y)) -- you can do
plenty of bit-level reinterpretation but not *in-place*, only via
copying.  But you can't generally afford that luxury when you dig deep
enough -- copying bits around when you only need to reinterpret them is
paying a real cost in memory and CPU and bus bandwidth, after all.  It
doesn't have to be OS-level: any virtual machine has similar issues.
So, look at the CPython interpreter sources, for example... what
performance price would it have to pay if it couldn't cast pointers but
rather had to copy bits around each time it now does a cast?


Alex


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Wed Nov  3 08:59:15 2004
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 07:59:15 -0600
Subject: Wrapping or converting Perl module?
Message-ID: <200411030759.15909.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

Hi all,

Suppose you have found a really nice module that does what 
you want (or will do, it still being in development), and 
you don't want to waste a lot of duplicated effort, but 
this module is in Perl rather than Python (and yes, the 
author is not open to conversion -- already tried 
that ;-) ).

If it were written in C, I'd have a couple of answers, such
as wrapping the module with a Pyrex module, or one of the
other means of adapting C modules to use with Python.

But I don't know what to do with Perl.  For starters, should
I be thinking in terms of a wrapper (as with C), or would it
be smart to try to automatically translate the code.

I'm willing to do a little bit of development work on this,
but as I said, the original code is still being developed,
and I hate to waste a lot of effort by reinventing what
my colleague is doing.  I'm willing to go as far as 
collaborating with this person, and I'm pretty sure we can 
share his work on the MySQL code embedded in his module, 
but I'd like to be able to convert his logic, too.

(In fact it's http://www.disobey.com/noos/LibDB/ , which
is an FRBR compliant library for cataloging books and media. 
Not to be confused with "libdb", which IIRC is the C 
library for accessing the "Berkeley Database", I've been 
meaning to point out the name collision to the author).

And if I do have to manually translate his code, is there
such a thing as a "Perl to Python" HOWTO or something along 
those lines to help me do it?

Thanks for comments, (and BTW, nice to be back, I tried 
using Usenet for awhile, but I don't seem to have a news
server anymore after switching ISPs, *sigh*).

Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From iketo2 at netscape.net  Mon Nov  1 20:44:26 2004
From: iketo2 at netscape.net (Isaac To)
Date: 02 Nov 2004 09:44:26 +0800
Subject: Why is heapify linear?
References: <4186cb77$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <87hdo9t479.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Scott" == Scott David Daniels <Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org> writes:

    Scott> I am sorry, but in the Python 2.4 description of "heapify",
    Scott> I find the description of "Transform list x into a heap,
    Scott> in-place, in linear time," unbelievable.  I understand the
    Scott> hand-wave that makes dictionary building linear (though I
    Scott> have a hard time with even that).  Could somebody tell me
    Scott> what twist of logic makes "heapify" linear, except in the
    Scott> sense that linear is coming to mean "very fast?"

I'll try to illustrate the idea without any complex maths, but instead
with real ugly ascii art.

The basic building block of "heapify" is a simple procedure which I'd
call "heapify_node".  It looks at a node that is not a leaf, and among
that non-leaf node and its two children, which is largest.  Then it
swap that largest node to the top, so that the node becomes the
largest among the three---satisfy the "heap property".  Clearly,
constant time.

To heapify the whole tree, we will heapify it from the bottom (so
"bottom up").  Heapifying a node at the "bottom" (i.e., next to a
leaf) is trivial; heapifying a node that is not bottom might cause the
heap property of nodes below to be violated.  In that case we will
have to heapify the node below as well, which might cause a node one
more level below to violate heap property.  So to heapify a node at
level n, we might need to call heapify_node (height-1) times.

Now we show that a whole run of heapify of a tree with n=2^k-1 nodes
will never call heapify_node more than n times.  We do it by finding a
way to charge the calls to heapify_node so that each node is never
charged more than once.  Note that we simplify things by always
considering full binary trees (otherwise, the claim has to be a bit
more complicated).

Let's consider the bottom layer.  To heapify a node with two children,
we need one call to heapify_node.  It is charged to left leaf.  So we
have this:

After heapify     O
                 / \
                X   O

where O shows a node that is not charged yet, and X show a node which
is already charged.  Once all the next-to-bottom nodes have been
heapified, we start to heapify the next-to-next-to-bottom nodes.
Before heapifying a node there, we have

Before heapify     O
                 _/ \_
                O     O
               / \   / \
              X   O X   O

To heapify this node, we might need two calls to heapify_node.  We
charge these two calls to the two uncharged nodes of the left subtree.
So we get:

After heapify      O
                 _/ \_
                X     O
               / \   / \
              X   X X   O

So none of the nodes is charged more than once, and we still have some
left for the next level, where before heapify the picture is:

Before heapify     O
              ____/ \____
             O           O     
           _/ \_       _/ \_   
          X     O     X     O  
         / \   / \   / \   / \ 
        X   X X   O X   X X   O

Heapifying at this level requires at most 3 calls to heapify_node,
which are charged again to the left branch.  So after that we get

After heapify      O
              ____/ \____
             X           O
           _/ \_       _/ \_
          X     X     X     O
         / \   / \   / \   / \
        X   X X   X X   X X   O

We note a pattern: the path towards the right-most leaf is never
charged.  When heapifying a level, one of the branches will always
have enough uncharged nodes to pay for the "expensive" heapify at the
top, while the other branch will still be uncharged to keep the
pattern.  So this pattern is maintained until the end of the heapify
procedure, making the number of steps to be at most n-k = 2^k - k - 1.
This is definitely linear to n.

Regards,
Isaac.


From valinor at linuxmail.org  Tue Nov  2 07:01:52 2004
From: valinor at linuxmail.org (foten)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 04:01:52 -0800
Subject: Array of textboxes in Tkinter
Message-ID: <cf4db78a.0411020401.3278b4ad@posting.google.com>

Hi guys,

I thinking of creating a Tkinter gui for a script I'm using to
do bit manipulation. The idea is for the user, using the mouse to
toggle (0 or 1) the 32 bits seen below in my ascii representation
of the gui. I need advice on how to create the 32-bitarray (i.e. four
separate ones), what widget to use? Can someone shed some light on
this or perhaps point me to an example?


     57005
----------

	___0	00000000
___0
	___0	00000000


	_222	11011110
_57005
	_173	10101101

Hex:      DEAD
Octal:  157255

//Fredrik


From valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk  Fri Nov 19 09:50:17 2004
From: valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk (Valkyrie)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:50:17 +0800
Subject: Question about thread
In-Reply-To: <1100875373.911763@eng-ser6>
References: <1100875373.911763@eng-ser6>
Message-ID: <1100875819.430462@eng-ser6>

To be more precise, what I want to do is to have a threaded program to handle
some jobs concurrently (while those jobs are fetching  information from the
Internet, so threading could speed up the process if the network is slow)

            start
              | (blahblahblah...)
              v
  +-----+-----+-----+-----+
  |     |     |     |     |
--+-- --+-- --+-- --+-- --+--
|   | |   | |   | |   | |   |
| A | | B | | C | | D | | E |
|   | |   | |   | |   | |   |
--+-- --+-- --+-- --+-- --+--
  |     |     |     |     |
  +-----+-----+-----+-----+
              | (blahblahblah...)
              v
           finish!

While process A-E will access the shared variables within the same program, and
each of those processes will have to parse a document on its own.


Valkyrie wrote:
> Refering to the following codes I found, there is nothing displayed in the
> console, may I ask why?
> 
> def thrd(param): # the thread worker function
>     print "Received",param
> 
> import thread
> for i in range(5): # start five threads passing i to each one
>     thread.start_new_thread(thrd,(i,))
> 
> Thanks in advance


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Nov  9 18:35:48 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 00:35:48 +0100
Subject: unicode string literals and "u" prefix
References: <ac3d3965.0411080600.3a5bce8d@posting.google.com>
	<418fed14$0$156$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<ac3d3965.0411090741.78c9dce4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cmrk8k$d5v$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

> Working for an insurance company, most of our data contain french
> accented characters.
> So, we are condemned to work essentially with unicode strings.
> In fact, it is hard to find examples where plain ascii strings would
> be useful in our case.
> Even data we retrieve from databases are returned to us as unicode
> strings.

This statement looks as if you confuse utf-8 and unicode. They are not the
same. The former is an encoding of the latter.

> A way of defaulting all string literal as unicode would have been a
> relief.

I can understand that wish, but it certainly would break too much existing
3rd-party-code. But I wonder if a tool as pychecker could be enhanced to
issue warnings on python code if string literals are not prefixed by an u.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From insert at spam.here  Wed Nov 17 11:10:00 2004
From: insert at spam.here (Doug Holton)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:10:00 -0600
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <1gnbf8z.mirt8m687hvbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<20041114200132.20649.1982992758.divmod.quotient.5222@ohm>
	<mailman.6390.1100553070.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbf8z.mirt8m687hvbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cI6dnbwGYrNL6gbcRVn-tg@comcast.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Jim Fulton <jim at zope.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>>  Guido has repeatedly stated that a future version of Python will
> 
> include static type support.  The Zope project has driven numerous past
> changes to Python.  What's funny about this?
> 
>>For the record, I'm against static typing for Python, although,
>>if Guido decides he wants it, I have an open mind. :)
> 
> 
> Glad to hear that.  As for me, I'd love it if function arguments, only,
> could bear an 'as' clause (making 'as' a keyword is long overdue):
> 
> def x(y as foo, z as bar):
>     <body of x>


I know many people here already know about this, but you can use this 
syntax in boo:

def foo(y as int, z as bool) as bool:
     <body returns a boolean>

You can also use attributes (similar to decorators):

def foo([required(value > 3)] value as int):
	pass

http://boo.codehaus.org/

If anyone here familiar with Zope, mod_python, etc. ever tries out boo 
and ASP.NET (or Mono's XSP/mod_mono), I'd appreciate you sharing any 
notes about it on the boo mailing list to help others getting started.


From f.geiger at vol.at  Tue Nov  9 13:53:07 2004
From: f.geiger at vol.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 19:53:07 +0100
Subject: Umlauts, encodings, sitecustomize.py
References: <cmfeqg$l73$1@newshispeed.ch> <4190ED09.3010503@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <cmr3ig$mfs$1@newshispeed.ch>


"Helmut Jarausch" <jarausch at skynet.be> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:4190ED09.3010503 at skynet.be...

> Try the line
> # _*_ coding: latin1 _*_
>
> at the very beginning (or at least after a #! line on Unix)
> This works under Linux, at least.
>

Thank you, Helmut, I had already added
# -*- coding: iso-8859-1 -*-
to the scripts in question.

Kind regards
Franz GEIGER




From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Sun Nov 21 12:00:17 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:00:17 +0100
Subject: Gnome version of Idle?
In-Reply-To: <1101051295.435416.307320@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <992f396f.0411202018.1edbc6d0@posting.google.com>
	<1101051295.435416.307320@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cnqhjv$mau$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Sridhar R wrote:

> If you ask me, aliased fonts are better for coding.

I second this statement.

Recently I had to install Slackware 10.0 on my new box. By default, Qt 
and GTK2 (so KDE, GNOME and XFce in consequence) use Xft/freetype2 
antialiased fonts -- all my editors was broken, even Vim was compiled 
with GTK2. Unfortunately, simple switching antialiasing for sizes 
smaller than 16pt resulted in ugly looking fonts, no less. Of course, 
freetype was compiled without TrueType hinting, as one may expect from 
software coming from US of A, where "truetype bytecode interpreting" is 
patented. Fortunately for me, this was matter of uncommenting one DEFINE 
and recompilation of freetype2.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/ | http://www.zgodowie.org/


From glenfant-nospam at bigfoot.com  Mon Nov  1 16:37:46 2004
From: glenfant-nospam at bigfoot.com (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 22:37:46 +0100
Subject: question de bonne doc
References: <418505b9$0$3662$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<1gmkhbc.yxlo8f10l5uq5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4186179a$0$31207$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<1gmkp2e.o08a66kodcjxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4186b186$0$3612$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> a ?crit dans le message de news: 
1gmkp2e.o08a66kodcjxN%aleaxit at yahoo.com...
> orionlux <orionlux at voila.fr> wrote:
>
[...]
>
> Essayez alors http://fr.diveintopython.org/index.html, "Plongez au coeur
> de Python", peut-?tre vous le trouverez satisfaisant.

Bonjour,

diveintopython.org n'est pas pour les newbies. Et encore moins "Thinking in 
Python" de Bruce Eckel comme je l'ai lu dans un autre post.

--
Gilles

>
>
> Alex 




From rkern at ucsd.edu  Wed Nov 10 23:08:30 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:08:30 -0800
Subject: distutils and Debian
In-Reply-To: <NPSdnfYgfbIHRw_cRVn-gw@giganews.com>
References: <4192AD69.5040707@sympatico.ca>
	<slrncp5cf6.v8.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<qeGdnUA1FNXrJw_cRVn-oA@giganews.com> <cmuf87$fm5$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<NPSdnfYgfbIHRw_cRVn-gw@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <cmuoju$ivo$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Istvan Albert wrote:
> Robert Kern wrote:
> 
>> only depend on the main python package. Most packages that need Python 
>> *don't* need distutils or the C headers or the static library.
> 
> 
> The *devel* branch in my interpretation means the distribution
> that contains the files used during the development of the
> application itself. For example the C headers
> that you mention.

But in Debian's consistent interpretation, it means "for development 
*with* the library/interpreter/whatever." If I want to compile a C 
program, I need to install libc6-dev. If I want to *develop* glibc, I 
get the source. Similar strategies are employed by other free Unices' 
package systems.

> But it should not mean removing support
> for installing new scripts for the runtime
> application!

If I want to compile a non-Debian program that uses libpng, I install 
libpng-dev. If I want to install a non-Debian Python package, I install 
python-dev. <shrug>

> Distutils is primarily about installing and distributing
> python programs and it has little to do with developing
> python itself.

And as I said, your interpretation has nothing to do with the way Debian 
and other Linux/BSD/what-have-you distributions use the suffix in their 
package names.

> Some packages will not
> be installable without the devel branch but removing
> distutils to head off that situation seems very odd.
> 
> Istvan.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From someone at microsoft.com  Wed Nov 24 15:28:12 2004
From: someone at microsoft.com (Jive)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:28:12 GMT
Subject: Python's annoyance.
References: <mailman.6762.1101324346.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <w96pd.3545809$yk.545028@news.easynews.com>

Your message showed up just as I finished typing my own screen.  Yours is
better, but having put all that wear and tear on my fingerprints, I'm going
to post mine anyway.  So there.

"Steven Bethard" <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote in message
news:<_V4pd.386875$wV.330416 at attbi_s54>...
>
> While I'm not a fan of the decorator syntax or the $syntax in
> string.Template, you're not forced to use either of these:
>

I don't know anything about the specific features you are discussing, but in
general, "You aren't forced to use it," is not a sound argument for
difficult features, or feature creep in general.  Why?  Because frequently
you ARE forced to use it!

Firstly, a novice does not know which bits he would best skip over.  While
not literally forced to use a feature, he does not know he probably should
not.  If there are pitfalls, he is at the mercy of whatever learning
material he is using to keep him from stepping in them.  Better not to dig
the pits in the first place.

Secondly, in the the real world, one seldom has the luxury of writing code
from scratch.  If I need to repair, augment, or integrate with existing
code, I am indeed FORCED to deal with whatever difficulties and obscurities
it may present.

One of Python's big selling points is its clarity and ease of use.   Okay,
that's two selling points.  I am not arguing against improving
functionality.  I do believe that in the future the Python wranglers would
do well to be more circumspect when adding features.  Generators are pretty
cool, but weren't there more general constructs that might have been added
instead?  And why is the syntax so utterly inscrutible?  Something that
looks like a function should act like a function, and vice versa.  Why do I
have to read the body of the, uh, thing, in order to determine that it even
*is* a generator rather than a function?  Someone who does not know that
generators even exist, and specifically does not know about the magic
properties of the world "yield", would be thoroughly and hopelessly
confused.  He would be hard pressed to figure it out from the source code.




From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Nov 18 10:14:40 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:14:40 -0500
Subject: SQL Server stored prcedures with output parameters
In-Reply-To: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434BD1@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>
References: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434BD1@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>
Message-ID: <419CBC60.60405@holdenweb.com>

Tim Golden wrote:

> Well, this is not much more than "me, too" kind of 
> information, but just in case...
> 
> The Object Craft MSSQL module which I use every day
> for SQL stuff doesn't have a working callproc method,
> something which has never bothered me before, but which
> would have been useful now.
> 
Yes. A lot of DB API modules have just punted on callproc, which is 
damned annoying when you need it :-(

I haven't used the MSSQL module, but adodbapi seems like the most 
complete interface.

> The pymssql module -- which seems a bit underdeveloped --
> doesn't have a callproc at all.
> 
I have tried that briefly, but saw no compelling reason to adopt it.

> What I do to get things out of a stored proc is to
> select out at the end and let Python pick it up as
> a result set. Just in case you're unfamiliar with the
> technique (and apologies if I'm teaching my granny...):
> 
> <sql>
> CREATE PROCEDURE test @i INT AS
>   SELECT @i
> GO
> </sql>
> 
> <python>
> # Uses Object Craft module, but should work 
> #  with other interface modules.
> import MSSQL 
> db = MSSQL.connect ("VODEV1", "", "", "EVODEV")
> q = db.cursor ()
> q.execute ("EXECUTE test 1")
> print q.fetchone ()
> </python>
> 
> Not much help, I know, but I'm afraid I have about 3 hours less
> experience in ADO than you.
> 
No apologies necessary. Unfortunately these are somebody else's stored 
procedures, and the suggestion that they change them to accommodate the 
weaknesses of the Python interface wouldn't be well received. These 
procedures have output parameters, and that's where I'll have to get the 
results from.

I'm probably going to have to work around it for now by duplicating the 
SQL, but that has bad maintenance problems long term.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119



From rparnes at megalink.net  Mon Nov 29 09:18:45 2004
From: rparnes at megalink.net (Bob Parnes)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 14:18:45 -0000
Subject: PyQt on a Server
Message-ID: <slrncqmbfk.2nq.rparnes@debian.localdomain>

I have an application importing qt on a linux server and am missing 
something in trying to run it from a workstation via nfs. The 
workstation has the server /usr directory mounted to its own /usr 
directory, so it can access the necessary files. The error I get is

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/demo/revenues.py", line 24, in ?
    from qt import *
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/qt.py", line 24, in ?
    import libsip
ImportError: libXrender.so.1: cannot open shared object file: 
  No such file or directory

I can see the file in /usr/X11R6/lib. So maybe there is a path variable
that qt.py uses and that has to be set on the workstation. If so, I don't 
know how to find it. Thanks for any help.

Bob

-- 
Bob Parnes
rparnes at megalink.net


From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Mon Nov  8 14:28:25 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 11:28:25 -0800
Subject: remove assert statement (Was: Re: PEP new assert idiom)
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org>	<7xr7n62t0v.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Lmjjd.2124$Zl2.96@trndny01>	<7xy8hep325.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.6055.1099832572.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <60dfb6f6.0411081128.78cff0b1@posting.google.com>

Gerrit <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.6055.1099832572.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Paul Rubin wrote:
> > "Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> writes:
> > > Why do you need a statement for this?
> > > IMO, a plain function will do the trick:
> > 
> > I do write such functions sometimes, but using a statement is more
> > natural.  That's why the assert statement exists, for example.
> 
> I think 'assert' being a statement is on Guido's regrets list. exec and
> print are on his regrets list: both should have been a function. I
> think the same holds for assert, although I'm not sure.

I don't recall seeing assert on that list.  Unlike print and exec,
what assert does can't be done by a function.


> > statement is very great, and I find myself doing it all the time
> > thinking I'll clean it up later.  So I think having a statement for
> > runtime checking would be in the correct spirit.
> 
> In my opinion, assert is almost useless. It can sometimes be useful for
> debugging purposes, but beyond that, it isn't. The exception raised by
> 'assert' is always AssertionError. That is a major disadvantage, because
> it's not specific. 

Actually it is, if you use assert correctly.  I'll get to that.


> If a method I'm calling would raise an AssertionError
> is some cases, and I want to catch it, I'm catching too much. Creating a
> new exception-class and raising that one is better because of this.

If you use assert correctly, you either wouldn't want to catch
AssertionError, or you'd want to catch it at a rather high level and
print a message about a bug in the program.


> I don't see the use of a statement like
> "assert isinstance(message, basestring)". 
[snip]

Generally speaking, this is an incorrect use of assert.  I don't
approve of this use of assert.

The proper use of assert is to declare that a certain condition is
impossible.  That is, if the program is bug-free, this condition will
never happen.  An assertion error should never be raised unless
there's a bug in the program.

Here's a ridiculous, and incorrect, but illustrative, example of its
proper use:

    def f(y):
        x = y*y
        assert x >= 0

As we know, multiplying a real number by itself always produces a
positive number (for the sake of argument, let's ignore the fact that
y could be a complex number).  Thus, is it impossible for x to be
negative.  Impossible, that is, unless there's a bug.  The assert
statement declares this to be an impossible condition.  If this
condition does not hold, it can't be bad input.  It's a bug. 
Obviously, this is a silly example, but real world examples aren't so
silly.

Because it's an "impossible" condition, it only needs to be checked in
debugging builds.  This is where the magic of the assert statement
comes in: in an optimized build, the assertion is not checked.  Thus
it's an optimiztion.  If you change assert into a function, Python can
no longer optimize the assertion away, because the function argument
is always evaluated.

This however, raises a question: is it a premature optimization?  I
would say yes and no.  For simple assertion, like assert x >= 0, the
optimization is premature and probably not worth justifying an assert
statement.  However, I still like having it, just to document that the
condition being checked is intended to be an impossible condition, as
opposed to bad input or an operating system error.

However, there are some impossible conditions that are simply not
premature optimizations by anyone's definition.  Let me show you an
example:

    def some_public_function(tree1, tree2):
        assert one-to-one(tree1,tree2)
        ...

In this case, I have two tree heirarchies which the program is to keep
1:1 at all time (i.e., for every node in tree1, there is a
corresponding node in tree2).  There are hundreds of functions
operating on both trees, and all of them have to make sure to update
both hierarchies.  If there is any exit point of a public function
where these trees are not one-to-one, then it's a bug.

The problem is, checking the whole hierarchy every time you call a
public function is simply too expensive for production code.  An
assert statement lets you optimize this call away, and very
conveniently.  I feel that power justifies the existence of assert.

Assert statements have found many, many bugs in my larger projects, so
I would be very sad to see them go away.  HOWEVER, in the end, I could
easily live without it.  Simple assertions don't cost much to check in
production code.  Expensive assertions I usually put in a function
anyways, so I can optimize it away by simply not calling it unless a
debug flag is set.


> In my opinion, assert should be deprecated and then removed in Py3K:
> assertions are redundant, unspecific, and conflict with the philosophy
> of duck typing and EAFP.
> 
> What do others think of this?

I don't want to see it disappear because it has valid uses.

I think it would be wise to discourage the use of assert for purposes
it wasn't intended for, such as the example you gave.

IMO, the best way to do this is to have assertion OFF by default.

The way Python is set up now is to have a default mode and optimized
mode, the optimized mode not running asserts.  I would change that.  I
suggest that Python should instead have a default mode and a debugging
mode, and that assertions should only be checked in debugging mode. 
Ordinary Python runs, without a -g flag, would simply ignore assert
statements.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov  2 12:35:28 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:35:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <96F3EC4BDF504540BB9715CBE9DACB8B0FA6012C@pa-mail1.legato.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041102T182540-941@post.gmane.org>

Michael Pyle <pyle_michael <at> emc.com> writes:

> Perhaps he is refering to the ability to change the class of an instance at 
> runtime. If you can't do that in Smalltalk (all other things being equal), I'd 
> say that would indicate weaker typing.

This seems to confuse strong/weak typing with static/dynamic typing.  If we
think about an object as an allocated block of memory, changing the class of an
Python object does not change how that block of memory is interpreted[1].  It
changes the value of one field of that object, namely the field that determines
where to look for the class object[2].  The memory block is still interpreted in
the same way, it just happens that some of the fields in that block may have
changed.

The point here is that changing the class of an object does not change how the
block of memory representing that object is interpreted; it only changes how the
class (and class methods) are looked up for that object.

Steve

[1] To be clear on what I mean by "how that block of memory is interpreted", you
may want to refer to my example of weak-typing in C:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/248983.html
[2] This may actually be changing several fields in the object's memory block (I
don't know Python's implementation well enough) but the idea is still the same.



From walter at livinglogic.de  Thu Nov 25 10:07:06 2004
From: walter at livinglogic.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Walter_D=F6rwald?=)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 16:07:06 +0100
Subject: import can't find xml.sax.saxlib from PyXML
In-Reply-To: <co4ib6$pkn$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
References: <co4ib6$pkn$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <41A5F51A.5000807@livinglogic.de>

Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I'm using PyXML 0.8.3 on a number of machines. When I now run
> 
> import xml.sax.saxlib
> 
> python touches both the python/xml/sax and python/site-packages/_xmlplus 
> modules but not _xmlplus/sax (I see that from strace), and then only 
> searches for saxlib in python/xml/sax, i.e. in stdlib. I therefore get 
> an ImportError though saxlib exists in _xmlplus/sax.
> 
> I know that it worked before, but I can't tell what changed on the 
> systems during new installations of new python versions. I tried it with 
> 2.3 (which worked before but somewhat surprisingly doesn't work any 
> more) and 2.4 (where I never managed to make this work).
> 
> Does anyone have a hint what I could try?

xml/__init__.py from python 2.4 contains:
    _MINIMUM_XMLPLUS_VERSION = (0, 8, 4)
so currently Python 2.4 will always fall back to the
builtin xml module.

A quick fix would be to change this back to:
    _MINIMUM_XMLPLUS_VERSION = (0, 8, 3)

(Or hope that a PyXML 0.8.4 will be released before
Python 2.4 final)

Bye,
    Walter D?rwald



From wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca  Thu Nov 25 17:30:38 2004
From: wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca (Weiguang Shi)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 22:30:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: dictionary initialization
References: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<lIydnVF-WvXK3TvcRVn-jA@rogers.com>
	<slrncqciv9.ip7.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<co5j9k$jgv$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <slrncqcn8f.j6h.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>

I see.

Thanks
Weiguang


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Nov 18 10:09:07 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:09:07 +0100
Subject: SPARK v.s. PLY
References: <ed89f8f2.0411180648.49ac6763@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cniduk$4po$04$1@news.t-online.com>

> If you know the parsing stuff well, could you briefly tell me the
> pros. and cons. of those packages? (or some others you find good too)

I use spark and am very satisfied. Its usage is quite natural, and the power
of the earley parsing method ensures the grammars can be easy to write and
understand (close to bnf), as you don't have to care about left-factoring
and the like. In badly designed grammars, it can get quadratic (or even
worse I think, but I'm to lazy now to think about that thorougly..) in
runtime - but I never expirienced any real trouble with that. The
algorithms that afterwards run on the AST are usually complex themselves,
shadowing the parsing complexity. And as I said - only ambigue grammars
produce that overhead at all. 

I can't say anything about other parsers though - didn't use them. At least
not in python. 

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Nov 22 05:09:49 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:09:49 +0100
Subject: PIL for Python 2.4?
References: <6r6pp018glonqu2kqeau5ru9nhfj9fpchv@4ax.com><419d002e$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<cnmtud$3rm$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
Message-ID: <cnsdtd$a69$1@sea.gmane.org>

David Fraser wrote:

> I tried building PIL with mingw recently and had some failures I can't remember ...

if you don't report your build problems, they will never get fixed (the
image-sig is the right forum for this, and the best place to get answers
to PIL-related questions).

> It *did* make me think "I wish there was some Pure Python image-handling code". It seems like the 
> C linkage is mainly required for image formatting handling - I couldn't find any JPEG 
> reading/writing code in Pure Python ... would be nice :-)

and incredibly slow.  PIL uses C for a reason.

</F> 





From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sun Nov  7 14:12:56 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 14:12:56 -0500
Subject: Python OS
In-Reply-To: <cmlr0j$m3p$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmin1n$500$02$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6003.1099752590.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmiorc$j4b$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6021.1099783808.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmk7r1$4d0$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>	<mailman.6059.1099837930.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmldu9$a72$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6080.1099848517.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmlr0j$m3p$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <418E73B8.6030002@cloudthunder.com>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

>>Do you mean that there are no entirely C OSs?
>>    
>>
><LOTS OF SWELL CODE SNIPPED>
>
>Now one can argue if that is still C, as it's written in a cpp-file thats
>run through a compiler - but if that really counts as C, then of course you
>can write anything in python (or VB or whatever languague you choose) by
>simply writing out hexdigits to a file....
>  
>
Looks like a Hybrid.

>  
>
>>Understood, however, note the terms prototype and virtual.  Perhaps I
>>could create virtual hardware where needed, and play around with the
>>timing issues in this manner (emulate them and create solutions
>>prototyped in Python).
>>    
>>
>
>In you first post, you didn't mention virtual - only prototype. And
>prototyping an OS for whatever hardware can't be done in pure python. Thats
>all that was said. 
>
>Writing a virtual machine for emulation can be done in python of course. But
>then you can't write a OS for it in python as well (at least not in
>CPython )- as your virtual machine must have some sort of byte-code, memory
>model and so on. But the routines you write for the OS now must work
>against that machine model, _not_ operate in CPython's execution model
>(which is based on an existing os running on real hardware)
>
>  
>
All of that can be virtually emulated (virtual memory and so forth).

>But creating a VM only leverages that work to the next level, retaining the
>initial problems. If you don't do it that way, you don't prototype anything
>like an OS nor implement a machine model but instead meddle some things
>together by creating a machine model that is so powerful (e.g. has an
>built-in notion for lists, dicts and the like) that it can't be taken
>seriously as educational for writing an OS - at least to me, as the virtue
>of writing an OS is to actually _deal_ with low-level matters, otherwise
>there is no challenge in it. 
>  
>
*laugh*  Now that is hilarious.

>I don't say that this is not a worthy project to undertake for educational
>purposes - but I wouldn't call it an OS, as it does not teach what creating
>an OS from scratch is supposed to teach.
>  
>
Understood.

>For example you can't write a OS for the JAVA VM, as there is no such things
>like interrupts defined for it - instead IO happends "magically" and is
>dealt with on the low level with the underlying OS. The VM only consumes
>the results.
>
>  
>
This has been done as well, there are Java operating systems were IO is 
handled by Java and not magic, or so I understand.


From sw at wordtech-software.com  Tue Nov  9 16:52:18 2004
From: sw at wordtech-software.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 16:52:18 -0500
Subject: Help on installing PyQt on MacOSX 10.3 needed
In-Reply-To: <2vcc6oF2i91ltU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.6138.1099992201.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2vcc6oF2i91ltU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <m_akd.996$yk5.922@fe37.usenetserver.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Svenn Are Bjerkem wrote:

|
| you are perfectly right. I went back to the documentation and paid a bit
| more attention and with your information in mind, I now see that it is
| talking about a selfcontained python with pyqt. I guess that I want to
| use the qt bindings *dynamically*. That means that I have to find a way
| to tell Python where to find the pyqt that I installed.
|
| In tcl I would either have installed into a directory in auto_path or I
| would have extended auto_path. How is this done in Python?
|

PyQt is installed in the site-packages directory on OS X--there's
nothing special you need to do, it "just works" and loads up fine.


- --
Kevin Walzer, PhD
WordTech Software--Open Source Applications and Packages for OS X
http://www.wordtech-software.com
http://www.smallbizmac.com
http://www.kevin-walzer.com
mailto:sw at wordtech-software.com
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Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFBkTwRJmdQs+6YVcoRAj0rAJ9bRjtLXWTYZV5jFeyVBESisqbasgCdFwwa
lW+8v04/KiAWzKM6glr3PVE=
=ZpPs
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From rtilley at vt.edu  Thu Nov  4 18:49:04 2004
From: rtilley at vt.edu (Brad Tilley)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 18:49:04 -0500
Subject: win 2003 server
Message-ID: <cmef57$7si$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Does Python run on Windows Server 2003?

http://www.python.org/download/download_windows.html only lists the 
following:

Python for Windows 95, 98, NT, 2000, ME, XP


From drew at gremlinhosting.com  Thu Nov 18 17:43:17 2004
From: drew at gremlinhosting.com (Andrew James)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:43:17 +0000
Subject: TPG error when using 't' as the first letter of a token
In-Reply-To: <ce9nd.9212$g21.3437@fe1.texas.rr.com>
References: <mailman.6536.1100768465.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ce9nd.9212$g21.3437@fe1.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1100817797.30315.20.camel@odin>

Paul,
Thanks for your detailed response. I've read through the PyParsing site
and I'm considering using it for further development of my project -
wish I'd found it before!

I noted your comments about my last test case; the syntax of the
language I'm implementing is closely related to XPath and the [] at the
end of the query are intended to contain metadata criteria. I have since
revised my parsing rules (see below) and they now parse both the
original test queries and arbitrarily complex boolean expressions.

I'm just about to post a new message with a description of what the
language is aimed at doing and asking for any improvements - I would
value your opinion if you have the time.

    # Tokens
    separator space '\s+';
    token Num '\d+(.\d+)?';
    token Ident '[a-zA-Z]\w*';
    token CharList '\'.*\'';
    token CatUnOp '~';
    token CatOp '[/\^]';
    token MetaOp '[=\+\-!]';
    token Date '\d\d-\d\d-\d\d\d\d';
    token FileID '(\w+\.\w+)';
    token EmptyLine '^$';
    
    # Rules
    START -> CatExpr ('\[' MetaExpr '\]')?
    | FileID
    | EmptyLine
    ;
    CatExpr -> CatUnOp CatName
    | CatName (CatOp CatExpr)*
    ;
    CatName -> Ident
    | '\(' CatExpr '\)'
    ;
    MetaExpr -> MetaCrit (',' MetaCrit)*
    ;
    MetaCrit -> Ident MetaOp Value
    ;
    Value -> CharList | Num | Date
    ;

parseTests = (
"simple",
"this/is/a/simple/test",
"a/test/with/metadata[author='drew',date=10]",
"music/mp3/~jackson/michael",
"docs/latex/~(computer^science)",
"media/video/((comedy/action)^thriller)"
)

Regards,
Andrew



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Nov 30 10:37:17 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:37:17 -0500
Subject: Struggling with struct.unpack() and "p" format specifier
In-Reply-To: <6b26402d.0411300657.d575d75@posting.google.com>
References: <6b26402d.0411300657.d575d75@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <coi42d$6h9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Geoffrey wrote:
> I am trying to read data from a file binary file and then unpack the
> data into python variables.  Some of the data is store like this;
...
> As I read the documentation the "p" format string seems to address
> this situation, where the number bytes of the string to read is the
> first byte of the stored value but I keep getting this error.
> 
> Am I missing something ?
> Can the "p" format character be used to unpack this type of data ?

I've tried experimenting with "p" and cannot get any meaningful
results.  In all cases pack() returns '\x00' while unpack()
with anything other than a one-byte string returns an exception
(unpack str size does not match format) while with a one-byte
string it always returns ('',).

I would be inclined to say that the "p" format in struct (using
Python 2.4rc1 or Python 2.3.3) does not act as documented on
Windows XP SP2, at least...

I hope we've both just missed something obvious.

-Peter


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov 22 11:10:51 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:10:51 +0100
Subject: pyKDE tutorial
References: <cnsptb$h96$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <cnt32a$cl0$01$1@news.t-online.com>


Search for boudewijn rempts book on pyqt. And there are other resources
online. Generally speaking, you can use whatever C++ tutorial you find, as
the bindings usually are so close that you can tranlate examples
line-by-line.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Nov 11 12:54:15 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:54:15 -0800
Subject: pickle: huge memory consumption *during* pickling
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E32451BD@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Hans Georg Krauthaeuser wrote:
> I have a long running application (electromagnetic compatibility 
> measurements in mode-stirred chambers over GPIB) that use pickle 
> (cPickle) to autosave a class instance with all the measured 
> data from 
> time to time.
> 
> At the beginning, pickling is quite fast but when the data 
> becomes more 
> and more pickling slows down rapidly.
> 
> Today morning we reached the situation that it took 6 hours to pickle 
> the class instance. The pickle file was than approx. 92 MB 
> (this is ok). 
> During pickling the memory consuption of the python proccess 
> was up to 
> 450 MB (512 MB RAM -> machine was swapping all the time).
> 
> My class use data types taken from a c++ class via swig. 
> Don't know if 
> that is important...
> 
> My feeling is that I'm doing something wrong. But my python 
> knowlegde is 
> not so deep to see what that is.
> 
> Is there an other way to perform an autosave of an class 
> instance? Shelve?

Shelve just uses pickle:

try:
    from cPickle import Pickler, Unpickler
except ImportError:
    from pickle import Pickler, Unpickler

...but it might help if the bottleneck is in your file-handling.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Thu Nov  4 23:02:46 2004
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com (Mark)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 23:02:46 -0500
Subject: py2exe 0.5.4 released
References: <mailman.5337.1098471964.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4pulo0tjm2se1p10apth81sn4p6a9mh6g8@4ax.com>

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:06:18 +0200, Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote:

>**py2exe 0.5.4** released
>===================================
>*SNIP*
>Download from the usual location:
>
>    <http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=15583>
>

Am I the only one having problems downloading this latest release???
--
Best regards,
Mark


From lynn at crazedimaginations.net  Sat Nov 20 00:15:54 2004
From: lynn at crazedimaginations.net (Lynn)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:15:54 -0800
Subject: stopping the sound server in PySol code -- how?
Message-ID: <iqAnd.69632$SW3.42915@fed1read01>

I have a SuSe 9.1 linux box (although this isn't a new issue) with
reasonably up to date everything.  When I run PySol, it grabs the sound
system in a rude and complete way.  

I don't listen to sound and I NEED my sound system available even if PySol
is running.

Does anyone have a simple way of ripping the sound functionality our of
PySol?  I've not enough of a python programmer to deal with this.
Everything I've tried has just generated a ton of errors.

-- 
Peace, Love and Absolute Pleasure
Crazed Imaginations RHPS cast
www.crazedimaginations.net


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov  2 17:18:34 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 22:18:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <loom.20041102T225055-402@post.gmane.org>

Christophe Cavalaria <chris.cavalaria <at> free.fr> writes:
> 
> One could say that the common definition of weakly typed languages cannont
> apply for a dynamicaly type language. Let's face it, once you've
> implemented a dynamicaly typed language, it seems very hard to use one
> piece of data as the wrong type.

While I agree that it would be kind of foolish to implement a dynamically typed
language that wasn't strongly-typed (PL theory definition), there's no reason
you *couldn't* -- your language would just need to provide some sort of 'cast'
function that did the conversion at runtime.

For example, say the memory block for an object instance was allocated like:

[0] pointer to class object
[1] pointer to dictionary object (holding variables)

Then maybe you could do something like:
  int1, int2 = cast(object(), list(int))
Given, I can't see any use for such behavior, but you *could* do it if you had a
weakly-typed dynamic language and you knew how it allocated objects.  At some
level, you always have bits -- whether it makes any sense to reinterpret them
depends on exactly what the bits originally meant.

> What we can do is extend the definition of weakly typed language to something 
> like : "A weakly typed language is a language that often uses incorectly some 
> piece of data by applying to it the wrong type" Such definition would include 
> any language that is too liberal with the type coertion like php.

Don't get me wrong -- I do understand your point.  In every case I can think of,
there is no reason to want weak-typing (PL theory definition) in a
dynamically-typed language.  On the other hand, I haven't really seen any good
cases for wanting weak-typing in a statically-typed language either.

Note that PHP doesn't fit your definition above anyway.  When PHP allows:

"a" + 10 == 10

it's not incorrectly using "some piece of data by applying to it the wrong
type".  It's doing exactly what it tells you it'll do.  This is *correct*
response given the PHP language definition.

In addition, you *can* create a statically-typed language that is strongly typed
(PL theory definition) but also very liberal with type coercion.  What would you
call such a language?  Since being liberal with type coercion and allowing bit
reinterpretation are orthogonal, why not keep the two separate terms?

My issue here is that I don't think we should confuse an already easily confused
term by giving it a second meaning.  If there aren't any dynamically typed
languages that are also weakly-typed, that's ok -- it doesn't mean we should
change the meaning of "weakly-typed" for these languages.

Steve



From follower at gmail.com  Fri Nov 12 17:22:24 2004
From: follower at gmail.com (Follower)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 14:22:24 -0800
Subject: Iterating over PDF documents
References: <cmv9j2$et5$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <3c18c08f.0411121422.6e405b04@posting.google.com>

Would this Python/PDF handling library be useful to you:

  <http://www.boddie.org.uk/david/Projects/Python/pdftools/>

I don't think it specifically handles re-writing, but it might be a
useful starting point.

--Phil.


From nun at example.com  Mon Nov 15 17:02:56 2004
From: nun at example.com (Mitja)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:02:56 +0100
Subject: Set like feature
References: <1100552512.672456.317420@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <opshi0u6ipdob4us@localhost>

On 15 Nov 2004 13:01:52 -0800, Hari  Pulapaka <hari04 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have a list of space delimited strings ending in a newline.
> Eg: a = ['a sfds sdf s df 34 ew\n', 'df sdf s f s ssf\n']
>
> Now inside each row, I have a space delimited list of fields.
>
> Now I want to compare the fields in each row of the array and see which
> fields do not match.
>
> Think of it as a 2 dimensional array of size mn, and comparing each
> each element on a column by column basis.
>
> I am using python2.2 so no sets. Can anyone think of an efficient way
> to do this?

If I understand the problem correctly, splitting the lines up and sorting  
them before comparison _is_ much better than a naive approach, though I  
don't know if that's what's best.

-- 
Mitja


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  6 17:35:05 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 23:35:05 +0100
Subject: PEP new assert idiom
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gmurvv.1meude125h1zrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

F?bio Mendes <niels_bohr at uol.com.br> wrote:
   ...
> This elegant syntax is NOT equivalent to python's not so ellegant:
> 
> >>> erromsg = 'Errormsg'
> >>> assert statement 1, errormsg 
> >>> assert statement 2, 'errormsg
> >>> (...)
> >>> assert statement n, errormsg

Why isn't this equivalent?  Apart from the fact that you keep, here and
elsewhere, using 'statement' where you hopefully mean 'expression' --
you cannot assert a statement, you can only assert an expression.

> In Ruby, the Assertion error is raised if executing statement 1, then 2,
> then 3... etc raises an error. This is a subtle thingm the error COULD
> NOT be raised if each statement is executed alone, as each statement may
> have side effects which make the order of execution relevant. To

Can you give one Python example where the sequence of asserts would
behave differently from what you propose?  I cannot see any.

> suceccefully emulate this behaviour, the python programmer have to
> resort to a even more cumbersome solution:
> 
> >>> foo = lambda : (statement 1) and (statement 2) ... (statement n)
> >>> assert foo, 'Errormsg'

I assume you mean to call foo, because if you don't, it will surely be
true and the assert will just never trigger.

Now, calling expressions expressions, rather than very confusingly
statements, can you explain how the semantics of this, with foo being
called, would differ from those of

assert exp1 and exp2 and exp3 ... and expN, 'errormsg'

???


> My proposal is to add the following syntax to the language:
> 
> >>> assert (statement 1), (statement 2), ... (statement n), 'Errormsg'

Again: can you explain how the semantics of this, would differ from
those of:

assert exp1 and exp2 and exp3 ... and expN, 'errormsg'

???

> Or, if the user prefers, the traditional comma rules also applies:

There is no such "traditional" rule (or rules) in Python.  Both a
statement and an expression can perfectly well end in a comma; the comma
does NOT imply any kind of continuation.


Alex


From franck.lepoutre at caramail.com  Fri Nov 19 06:50:02 2004
From: franck.lepoutre at caramail.com (francois lepoutre)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:50:02 +0100
Subject: persistent CGI pattern at google.com (was why python?)
References: <cndpgm$s82$1@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca>
	<1gndypu.1e28rl1cgo8nsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cnfen4$hq8$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <419ddb81$0$27395$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-06.noos.net>

Hi all,

> Google itself is a python success story - for example this here:
>  https://adwords.google.com/support/bin/topic.py?topic=102

Sure, it looks like google.com is using some kind of
cgi process to run python code. Kind of good news
for those selling python-based stuff.

I expect google use some sort of persistency layer
(mod_python, fastcgi ...) to run their python cgi code
effectively.

Anyone knows the way their python code is delivered
at adwords ?

Fran?ois




From wh2005 at web.de  Wed Nov 24 07:03:41 2004
From: wh2005 at web.de (wolfgang haefelinger)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 12:03:41 GMT
Subject: read(1) returns string of length 2
Message-ID: <xM_od.25928$jf.25666@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>

Greetings,

I'm trying to read (japanese) chars from a file. While doing so
I encounter that a char with length 2 is returned. Is this to be
expected or is there something wrong?

Basically it's this what I'm doing:

import codecs
f = codecs.open("ident.in",'rb','Shift-JIS')   ##  japanses codecs installed

c = f.read(1)
while c:
   if len(c)==1:
      print hex(ord(c)),
   else:
      print "{",
      for x in c: print hex(ord(x)),
      print "}",
   c = f.read(1)

This is my input (file is also attached):

$ od -tx1 ident.in
0000000 8d 87 8c 76 8e 9e 8a d4 3b 0d 0a
0000013

This is what I'm getting:

$ python ident.py                                          ## python 2.3.4 
on Windows
0x5408 0x8a08 0x6642 0x9593 { 0x3b 0xd } 0xa

"Python" believes that there are 6 chars on the stream while there are
actually 7 chars.

My naive assumption was that f.read(1) returns always a char of length 1 (or
zero).

Remark:
The input is believed to be "SJIS" but I haven't found a Python codecs for 
this.
Therefore I'm using Shift-JIS. Of course this could be the problem. Note 
that
when feeding Java with my input  "correct" using SJIS, chars are spit out:

  c=21512 c=35336 c=26178 c=38291 c=59 c=13 c=10 : 7 char(s)

References:
I downloaded Japanese codecs from here (version: 1.4.10)
  http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~rd6t-kjym/python/

Thanks for any hints,
Wolfgang.



begin 666 ident.in
+C8>,=HZ>BM0[#0H`
`
end



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sun Nov  7 20:43:18 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 17:43:18 -0800
Subject: Stop spaces from appearing when printing to file
In-Reply-To: <418ec9ff$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <cmmgiu$id5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <418ec9ff$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <418ee25a$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Kent Johnson wrote:
> Brad Tilley wrote:
> 
>> I'm printing some info into a txt file that will be uploaded into a 
>> MySQL DB. I use ';' as field separaters. How can I stop spaces from 
>> appearing on both sides of the ';'
> 
> 
> The spaces are a feature of print. To avoid them, use string formatting 
> to create a single output string.
> 
>> print >> x,';',object,";",AN_string,";",ascii,";",sum
> 
> 
> Try
> print >> x, ';%s;%s;%s;%s' % (object, AN_string, ascii, sum)

or even:
  print >>x, ';'.join([str(v) for v in (object, AN_string, ascii, sum)])

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.DanielsAcm.Org


From python-url at phaseit.net  Mon Nov 22 18:08:03 2004
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:08:03 GMT
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Nov 22)
Message-ID: <cnto28$fh3$1@lairds.us>

QOTW:  "[W]riting C code is typically the least time-consuming part of
any language feature."  Tim Peters

"Best way to discourage visual basic knock offs, is to try and use visual
basic, in my opinion."  Eddie Parker


    You can use no-cost compilers to build extensions for 2.4
    under Windows in a reasonably standard way.
        http://www.vrplumber.com/programming/mstoolkit/

    Ipython's so desirable people (all but) abandon zsh and allied *sh.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=right&th=1831549887c79e

    Comp.lang.python has been talking about decorators for months.
    A C++ perspective through templates (notice Diez B. Roggisch's
    example of how C++ creates pain) leads back to decorators and
    generics.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=fe2717900f2a9312

    Is there value in lighter-weight syntax checking than, say, 
    pycheck provides?  In any case, Ian Bicking shows that it's
    at hand now.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=eaef717078406f39

    Exceptions are IMPORTANT.  Peter Hansen, Roy Smith, Andrew Dalke, and
    others help those coming from outside Python to think clearly about
    exceptions.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=96be282f14e5d437

    Python defines signal-handling in a way that makes correct behavior
    relatively easy to maintain.  Tim Peters explains that painful 
    experience has taught the wisdom of this approach (and avoidance of
    HP-UX "features", incidentally).  Along the way, he gives stylistic
    advice on threads, queuing, ...
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=d56763f5f3d9823f
    

========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
    action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

    Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
        http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
       
    Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
	http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
	http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
	http://python.de/backend.php
    For more, see
	http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.




From news5 at bennymo.ch  Fri Nov 19 10:03:10 2004
From: news5 at bennymo.ch (Benny Mohr)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:03:10 +0100
Subject: elegante zuweisung gesucht
Message-ID: <cnl1va$t15$1@newshispeed.ch>

Hallo ihr Cracks,

ich habe eine einfache Funktion

def myFunc(a,b):
     pass

und eine Liste

myList = [1,2]

und m?chte gerne auf diese Weise aufrufen:

myFunc(myList)

Geht leider nicht - gibt es Alternativen ohne myFunc zu ?ndern?


Besten Dank
Benny


From roy at panix.com  Tue Nov  2 19:44:23 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 19:44:23 -0500
Subject: Should I learn Python?
References: <624a388a.0411021328.5ac41f4c@posting.google.com>
	<418807d0$0$19691$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <roy-2DF315.19442302112004@reader1.panix.com>

bruno modulix <onurb at xiludom.gro> wrote:
> > 3. In what way could I utilize Python to compliment existing sites or
> > apps built with PHP?
> a cgi is a cgi, whatever the language (php, perl, python, bash, C, 
> COBOL, assembly....).

But there's a lot more to web applications than CGI.


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Nov 17 11:24:44 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:24:44 -0600
Subject: seeking a new host for the "Python Grimoire"
In-Reply-To: <cnf7mt$adl$1@news.tue.nl>
References: <b16e4ef7.0411161729.51e2ea80@posting.google.com>
	<cnf7mt$adl$1@news.tue.nl>
Message-ID: <16795.31564.254323.753340@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Gerrit> I didn't know this resource. It looks nice. Why take it down? It
    Gerrit> looks valuable as is. Maybe you should add a warning that it is
    Gerrit> no longer maintained and that volunteers are welcomed at the
    Gerrit> top?

Or convert it to a wiki and let the community as a whole maintain it?  If
you want to go that route I'd be happy to host the wiki on the Mojam server.

Skip


From valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk  Fri Nov 19 10:45:21 2004
From: valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk (Valkyrie)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:45:21 +0800
Subject: Question about thread
In-Reply-To: <306ic5F2svtsdU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <1100875373.911763@eng-ser6> <306ic5F2svtsdU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1100879122.755150@eng-ser4>

When I do it line by line in python's console, I have similar result to youl.
But when I try to run it in a file, say:

python demo.py

It just returns me nothing. I have no idea on this right now...

Russell Blau wrote:
> "Valkyrie" <valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk> wrote in message
> news:1100875373.911763 at eng-ser6...
> 
>>Refering to the following codes I found, there is nothing displayed in the
>>console, may I ask why?
>>
>>def thrd(param): # the thread worker function
>>    print "Received",param
>>
>>import thread
>>for i in range(5): # start five threads passing i to each one
>>    thread.start_new_thread(thrd,(i,))
> 
> 
> You may ask, but when I tried your code, here is what happened:
> 
> Python 2.3.4 (#53, May 25 2004, 21:17:02) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 
>>>>def thrd(param): # the thread worker function
> 
> ...     print "Received",param
> ...
> 
>>>>import thread
>>>>for i in range(5): # start five threads passing i to each one
> 
> ...     thread.start_new_thread(thrd,(i,))
> ...
> 1960
> 836
> 232
> 2864
> 3692
> 
>>>>Received 0
> 
> Received 1
> Received 2
> Received 3
> Received 4
> 
> Note that the numbers 1960, etc., appear to be the return values of the
> thread.start_new_thread() function.
> 
> 


From mrovner at propel.com  Fri Nov  5 16:23:55 2004
From: mrovner at propel.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 13:23:55 -0800
Subject: sh: test: argument expected and /etc/passwd
In-Reply-To: <200411041256.iA4CuZ9q002858@relay.uva.es>
References: <200411041256.iA4CuZ9q002858@relay.uva.es>
Message-ID: <cmgr0c$pit$1@sea.gmane.org>

Iv?n Cabria wrote:
> Hi,  
>   
> thanks to Mike Rovner for the answer.  
> I did grep loginname /etc/passwd to confirm I was using bash, and the line I 
> got ended with 
>  
> :/usr/bin/bash 

If the error doesn't go away try to locate shell invocation inside script.

Also try "which sh" and "ls -l $(which sh)". On my system that points to 
bash as well. If it isn't on yours, you can simulate it (if python 
script doesn't call sh bu full path like /bin/sh) by placing "sh" 
symlink to /usr/bin/bash early in your PATH:

mkdir ~/bin
PATH=~/bin:$PATH
ln -s /usr/bin/bash ~/sh

and try to run your script again from there.

HTH,
Mike




From strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu  Tue Nov  9 20:37:46 2004
From: strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 01:37:46 GMT
Subject: html parsing?  Or just simple regex'ing?
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.10.01.37.41.879705@dcs.nac.uci.edu>


I'm working on writing a program that will synchronize one database with
another.  For the source database, we can just use the python sybase API;
that's nice and normal.

For the target database, unfortunately, the only interface we have access
to, is http+html based.  There's same javascript involved too, but
hopefully we won't have to interact with that.

So, I've got Basic AUTH going with http, but now I'm faced with the
following questions, due to the fact that I need to pull some lists out of
HTML, and then make some changes via POST or so, again over HTTP:

1) Would I be better off just regex'ing the html I'm getting back?  (I
suppose this depends on the complexity of the html received, eh?)

2) Would I be better off feeding the HTML into an HTML parser, and then
traversing that datastructure (is that really how it works?)?

3) When I retrieve stuff over http, it's clear that the web server is
sending some kind of odd gibberish, which the python urllib2 API is
passing on to me.  In a packet trace, it looks like:

Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 01:09:47 GMT^M
Server: Apache/1.3.29 (Unix)  (Red-Hat/Linux) mod_perl/1.23^M
Keep-Alive: timeout=15, max=98^M
Connection: Keep-Alive^M
Transfer-Encoding: chunked^M
Content-Type: text/html^M
^M
ef1^M
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">^M
<html>^M
<head>^M

...and so on.  It seems to me that "ef1" should not be there.  Is that
true?  What -is- that nonsense?  It's not the same string every time, and
it doesn't show up in a web browser.


Thanks!



From caleb1 at telkomsa.net  Thu Nov 25 20:59:54 2004
From: caleb1 at telkomsa.net (Caleb Hattingh)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 20:59:54 -0500
Subject: network programming without goto
References: <mailman.6783.1101394437.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <opsh1uh4fi1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 06:53:53 -0800 (PST), kent sin <kentsin at yahoo.com>  
wrote:
>
> for host in hostlist:
>     try:
>         # sometimes the host may fail
>         conn =zoom.Connecton(host.ip, host.port)
>     except:
>         continue  # Next host? But How to give it some
> chance? 3 times?
>     ...

Roy really posted the definitive answer here, but there is something else  
you may find it interesting to try: recursive functions.  I played around  
with this for a random POV-Ray texture generator I made a while ago  
(anyone interested?  It's decent :) - nesting levels were somewhat  
flexible, and I made the number of nesting levels in different sections  
(texture maps, normal maps, etc.) randomised as well.

You do something like

***
def funnyWalk(stuff, NUMBER_OF_THIS_TRY, NESTING_LEVEL)
     if NUMBER_OF_THIS_TRY > NESTING_LEVEL:
         # We're done.
         break # Is this valid??? I confuse pascal and python easily :(
     NailParrotsFeet()
     if NEED_ANOTHER_CALL == true:
         funnyWalk(stuff,NUMBER_OF_THIS_TRY+1)

NESTINGLEVEL = 3
funnyWalk(stuff,1,NESTINGLEVEL)
***

And "NailParrotsFeet()" function will get run 3 times.



From jerf at jerf.org  Thu Nov 25 00:54:20 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 00:54:20 -0500
Subject: Python's annoyance.
References: <aa1af1ad.0411241047.4d5da2fd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.25.05.54.16.884073@jerf.org>

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 10:47:11 -0800, caroundw5h wrote:
> Serioulsy, one of python's main selling points is its elegant syntax, non
> perl like, non C like. If it can't live up to it. I guess i might as well
> use perl or ruby or server side javascript.

There's a rather large difference between

@require_int
@dynamic_dispatch('add', int)
@author("Steven Q. Dude")
@whack_a_hacka_ding_dong(with_fruit=True, sledgehammer=5)
@register(zodb & mysql_storage)
def increment(i):
	return i + 1

and

@require_int
def advanceCounter(index):
	objToAdvance = objStorageArray[index]
	obj.prep(prepType = ADVANCE)
	try:
		obj.advance(1)
	except IOError:
		obj.lazyAdvance(1)
	
	return obj

One guess which is the more common case.

I can make any language look bad by focusing on the nasty cases. I mean,
why not complain about

p=lambda n,s=2,np=lambda s,f:reduce(lambda x,y:x and y,map(lambda
  x,y:x%y,[s+1]*(s/2),range(2,s/2+2)))and s+1or f(s+1,f
  ):n>0and[s]+p(n-1,np(s,np))or[]

(http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&frame=right&th=5c8439bf5fa72cde&seekm=000001bd7a3a%24f205cc40%2418472399%40tim#link3)

Obviously, any language that allows that isn't clean.

You have to take the gestalt of real code written in the language, not
contrive cases focusing on the worst part of the language. Python's near
the top of the heap. Javascript would fare better if so many inexperienced
programmers weren't bashing away in it, and if so many extant programs in
it weren't bogged down by browser checking code brought on by wildly
divergent DOMs. 

If you insist on using such faulty metrics, though, hie thee hence to
Perl, that epitome of elegant syntax and more power to you. I leave you
with this closing benediction in honor of the might syntactical
cleanliness of Perl:

@==sort@$=map$_.shift@=,@@for@@=/\pL|,/g;$_=@$[$_]

(http://perlgolf.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/PGAS/post_mortem.cgi?id=11)
(http://perlgolf.sourceforge.net/TPR/0/6/)



From lbates at syscononline.com  Fri Nov 19 12:40:49 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:40:49 -0600
Subject: Building a word list from multiple files
In-Reply-To: <c644fe86.0411182016.59e56f0@posting.google.com>
References: <c644fe86.0411172344.6d6356d9@posting.google.com>
	<3oqdnVtPVOyFMgHcRVn-rA@comcast.com>
	<c644fe86.0411182016.59e56f0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LMGdneLlObuOrQPcRVn-1Q@comcast.com>

With email messages they should be small enough so reading
them into memory isn't an issue so line-by-line processing
isn't indicated here.

Email messages have LOTS of punctuation in the other than
witespace between words.  Just look at your email message
below.  It contains:

 > greater than symbol
) parenthesis
. periods
? question marks
, commas

Even text like:  "html.So no line.."   Periods with no
whitespace will be a problem  string split would
return "html.So" as a word.

I really think you are going to need to use regex to
split this into "words" and even then the words may
be of questionable origin.  See another response for
an example regex expression that might work.  Constructs
like e.g. will return two words "e" and "g" (which
might be ok for your application).

Hope feedback at least helps.

Larry Bates


Manu wrote:
> hi,
> 
>>1) How large are the files you are reading (e.g. can they
>>fit in memory)?
> 
> 
> The files are email messages.
> I will using the the builtin email module to extract only the content
> type which is plain text or in html.So no line by line processing is
> possible unless
> i write my own parser for email.
> 
> 
>>2) Are the words in the file separated with some consistent
>>character (e.g. space, tab, csv, etc).
> 
> 
> in the case of html mail i only extract the text and strip of the
> tags.
> Since this is regular text i expect no special seperators and as i
> understand split() by default takes any whitespace character as
> delimter.This will work fine for my purposes.
> 
> 
> 
>>If not, preprocess the files and use shelve to save a
>>dictionary that has already been processed.  When you
> 
> 
> This is what i was planning to do.Once the processing is done for a
> set of files they are never processed again.I was going to store the
> dict as a string in a file and then use eval() to get it back.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Manu


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 10 05:17:27 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:17:27 GMT
Subject: range and wx co - ords
References: <a86fb13f.0411081407.3a382a6b@posting.google.com>
	<a86fb13f.0411091707.11be7433@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4191dc09.80425295@news.oz.net>

On 9 Nov 2004 17:07:12 -0800, mj.clift at virgin.net (Malcolm Clift) wrote:

>Hi All,
>
>I have now got something approaching what I need. Could someone please
>show me how to define the 'line', so rather than just the first 50
>items being printed over and over it goes through the text
>incrementally?
>
>
>        line = text1[:50]
>        for i in range(1000):
>            dc.DrawText(line, 100, 100 + (i//2)*100) 
>
I don't think you want to do 1000 DrawText calls to display 50 characters ;-)

I can't tell what you really want to do, but if you just want to spread characters
evenly to make an array of characters with 50 per row of some width and a box of
some height, I would just walk through the characters and bump coordinates as I went.

If you are tyring to spread _words_ into the space, you might want to keep the characters
in words more together than what overall average spacing will give. I.e., insert extra
space between words, but none or some mild effect between characters. This also depends
on what font you are using, which gets into font metrics. Also how persnickety you are
about precise inclusion within the box area of characters on the right. An '!' is going
to be narrower than an 'M'. Also, do you want to ignore word boundaries and likely break
words between lines?

If you just want to walk through 20 lines of 50 characters taken successively from text1,
you can write something like (untested!!)

    cpl = 50 # chars per line
    totlines = 20
    top = 100; left = 100 # top left pixel position
    width = 500; height = 400 # box pixel(?) dimensions
    cleantext = ' '.join(text1.split()) # change all whitespace to single spaces??
    for linestart in xrange(0, cpl*totlines, cpl):
        line = cleantext[linestart:linestart+cpl]
        for ix, c in enumerate(line):
            # compute position
            iy = linestart//cpl # might want to add 1 if top is not baseline pos
            x = int(left + width*ix/float(cpl))
            y = int(top + height*iy/float(totlines))
            dc.DrawText(c, x, y)

But this is not normal word flowing to fit _words_ in a box justified to both sides,
if that's what you really want. If you want that, you should probably output words
whose characters are not separated as much, and put extra space between words, and
not break words at line ends. Also, if your text has real newlines ('\n') or tabs
etc. in it, you may want to change them to spaces (but not necessarily a single space
for each separation as I did in cleantext above).

HTH and that the bug is not too bad (untested, there's bound to be one ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From ca765 at earthlink.net  Fri Nov 19 21:09:11 2004
From: ca765 at earthlink.net (Charles Allen)
Date: 20 Nov 2004 02:09:11 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.6614.1100891946.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncpt9q8.k2j.ca765@juniper.sweetshade.local>

I suggest that someone quickly file an application for the "IsToo"
operator.  Skeptics may doubt that this is patentable, to which I say...

    Is Too!
Is Not!
    Is Too!
Is Not!
...

-- 
Charles Allen <ca765 at earthlink.net>


From peter.mosley at talk21.com  Mon Nov 22 12:33:31 2004
From: peter.mosley at talk21.com (Peter)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 09:33:31 -0800
Subject: [Beginner] delete items of [] also from memory
References: <cns50t$5ip$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <72c8d50d.0411220933.203ca8f0@posting.google.com>

"Birgit Rahm" <br_y at yahoo.de> wrote in message news:<cns50t$5ip$05$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> Hello newsgroup,
> 
> I am a beginner, so I am asking maybe immoderate questions.
> I want to delete a [] variable, after filling it with complex objects. How
> should I do it?
> e.g.
> AAA = []
> AAA = [B, C, D, E, F]
> Can I
> 1) AAA = []
> 2) del AAA[0:]
> 3) ?
> whats about the computers memory, will it get free? Or will it get more and
> more while Python is running?

I too am a novice, so am prepared to be corrected if this is wrong.

I don't think you need to worry - Python handles memory allocation
automatically.  Names are not specifically allocated to memory, and
when the last reference to a name is deleted all the associated memory
is freed.


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 06:49:27 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:49:27 -0200
Subject: Idiom for default values when unpacking a tuple
In-Reply-To: <gLUmd.624484$8_6.43429@attbi_s04>
References: <l6qmd.34062$Zr3.23130@fe1.texas.rr.com>
	<mailman.6523.1100746044.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<gLUmd.624484$8_6.43429@attbi_s04>
Message-ID: <864d37090411180349675aef7b@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 03:34:42 GMT, Steven Bethard
<steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, it doesn't quite exist in itertools, but it's there with just a
> simple composition:
> 
>  >>> def iterfixed(seq, times, defaultitem=None):
> ...     return it.islice(it.chain(iter(seq), it.repeat(defaultitem)), times)
> ...

After I posted the previous recipe I polished it up a little bit more
and renamed it as "iunpack". It now returns the remaining part of the
tuple as the last item. As it is, it's a good candidate for itertools
-- it's way more convenient than the composition option, and judging
by how many times the issue was brought up here, it's a relatively
common problem.
 
>  >>> tuple(iterfixed((1,2,3,4), 3))
> (1, 2, 3)
>  >>> tuple(iterfixed((1,2,3,4), 6))
> (1, 2, 3, 4, None, None)
>  >>> a,b,c = iterfixed((1,2,3,4), 3)
>  >>> a,b,c
> (1, 2, 3)
>  >>> a,b,c,d,e,f = iterfixed((1,2,3,4), 6)
>  >>> a,b,c,d,e,f
> (1, 2, 3, 4, None, None)
> 
> > The only catch is that, if you have only one parameter, then all you
> > will get is the generator itself. But that's a corner case, and not
> > the intended use anyway.
> 
> Not exactly sure what you mean here.  If you only have one item in your
> unpack tuple, I believe things still work, e.g.:
> 
>  >>> a, = iterfixed((1,2,3,4), 1)
>  >>> a
> 1
> 
> But I'm probably just misunderstanding your statement...

No -- it's that you remembered to include the comma. My example was to
assign it it one item only, which really isn't tuple unpacking; but
this is a easy mistake to do in this case. Anyway, it should work as
intended.

BTW, I never saw it mentioned before that iterators can be used at the
right side of an assignment with the tuple meaning. Nice side effect,
I think.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 20 21:23:08 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 21:23:08 -0500
Subject: CGI email script
In-Reply-To: <db4aff64.0411201402.66600328@posting.google.com>
References: <db4aff64.0411201402.66600328@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <419ffad3$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

bojanraic at gmail.com wrote:
> I'm trying to write a basic Python email CGI script to send email
> through HTML email form.
> I've seen a lot of examples out there, but nothing I tried so far
> seemed to work. So I would like to know what I am doing wrong.
> #!/usr/bin/python
> 
> import cgitb
> cgitb.enable()
> import cgi
> import smtplib
> 
> print "Content-type: text/html\n"

This line should be inside main() so it is printed each time the script 
runs (OK maybe for a CGI it doesn't matter...), and it should have two 
\n - you need a blank line between the HTTP headers and the body.

> 
> def main():
>     form = cgi.FieldStorage()
>     if form.has_key("name") and form["name"].value != "":
>         fromaddress = form["email"].value
>         toaddress = my at email.com
>         message = form["comment"].value
> 
>     server = smtplib.SMTP('localhost')
>     server.set_debuglevel(1)
>     server.sendmail(fromaddress, toaddress, message)

Strangely enough, the message actually has to include the from and to 
addresses as well. Try something like this:
     msg = '''From: %s
To: %s
Subject: Test
%s
''' % (fromaddress, toaddress, message)

     server.sendmail(fromaddress, toaddress, message)

>     server.quit()
> 
>     print "<html><head><title>Sent</title></head>"
>     print "<body><h1 align=center>",
>     print "<p>Your message has been sent!</body>"
>     print "</html>"
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__': main()
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, I change the email address to my own.
> I keep getting the premature end of script headers error.
> 
> Several questions:
> 
> 1. server = smtplib.SMTP('localhost') should return the name of the
> server, right? I don't need to explicitly name it, or do I?

You should pass the name of the SMTP server, is that on your local machine?

Kent

> 2. cgitb.enable() - shouldn't that give me a trace back if something
> goes wrong so I can debug the code? It doesn't seem to give me
> anything...
> 3. What am I doing wrong here? How can I fix the errors and make it
> work?


From and-google at doxdesk.com  Sun Nov 14 05:14:52 2004
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 14 Nov 2004 02:14:52 -0800
Subject: get element text in DOM?
References: <mailman.6228.1100113797.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<s3lbp093s95onf1tclrvkese1gfoa07m3v@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0411140214.9ed8e57@posting.google.com>

Manlio Perillo <NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it> wrote:

>     for n in node.childNodes:
>         if n.nodeType in (dom.Node.TEXT_NODE, dom.Node.CDATA_SECTION_NODE):

(Aside: node.TEXT_NODE would probably be better here. Can't guarantee
that a DOM's implementation of the 'Node' interface is available as a
class called 'Node' inside its module.)

>             L.append(n.data)
>         else:
>             if not recursive:
>                 return None

Surely 'continue'? This will exit the function (returning None instead
of the expected empty string) the first time a non-Text node is met.

Incidentally, DOM Level 3 Core defines the property 'textContent' to
return pretty much exactly this (although it removes the ignorable
whitespace). Not in minidom yet, but... <insert usual plug here>

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/


From amanjit.gill at gmx.de  Wed Nov 17 15:49:43 2004
From: amanjit.gill at gmx.de (Amanjit Gill)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:49:43 +0100
Subject: Arbitrary errors with c++, python, and simple mapi - basically
 c/c++ specific
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6477.1100691457.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6477.1100691457.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cngdh7$1ng$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Thomas Zehbe wrote:


> Everything works fine until I did the first call to a function in the 
> mapi32.dll. The loading of the dll doesn?t matter, but any call to the mapi, 
> i.E. MAPLogon, leads to arbitrary errors calling the Py-API.
[..]

Hi,

- I suppose you should first check if your heap is still ok - perhaps 
your usage of that specific DLL caused heap corruption. Then the py-API 
screwed up. You should try the following standard heap check from win32 
(<crtdbg.h>, _DEBUG versions)

_CrtCheckMemory() 	// to check all of the heap
_CrtIsValidPointer(..) 	// to check a specific memory region for r/w

doing _CrtCheckMemory() before and after a call can reveal alot.

- It is very important to use the same runtime library in your projects, 
this is another common cause for failure.

- MAPI is a COM library. You might try this straight c++ wrapper class 
first and see if the  simplest example works for you: 
http://www.codeproject.com/internet/mapadmin.asp#xx708710xx. Or you may 
aswell try the more simplistic CMC Common messaging calls first 
(Platform SDK).

Sorry for being _UnPythonic();

_________________________
Amanjit Gill
Medical and Bioinformatics
Gynecology and Obstetrics
University Clinic Charite
Berlin, Germany

amanjit.gill at charite.de




From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Nov 16 11:53:20 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:53:20 +0100
Subject: Idiom for default values when unpacking a tuple
References: <l6qmd.34062$Zr3.23130@fe1.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <cndb9t$qdo$04$1@news.t-online.com>


You can always have a try/exept clause around unpacking. That you could
fator out into a function that always returns the right sized tuples. Like
this:

def unpack(t):
    try:
        a,b,c = t
        d = None
    except ValueError:
        a,b,c,d = t
    return a,b,c,d

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Mon Nov 29 15:08:42 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 21:08:42 +0100
Subject: httplib question
In-Reply-To: <001e01c4d64e$3f2be150$0e8b18ac@stuartxplaptop>
References: <883978369.20041129203018@geochemsource.com>
	<001e01c4d64e$3f2be150$0e8b18ac@stuartxplaptop>
Message-ID: <1795433759.20041129210842@geochemsource.com>

Hello Stuart,

Monday, November 29, 2004, 8:59:57 PM, you wrote:

> Laszlo,

> The "request" method call expects a "body" parameter that defaults to None
> as the 3rd method parameter.  You will either need to pass in an empty
> string as the body parameter, or assign the headers property by named
> assignment. Python interprets your call as passing the dictionary into the
> body parameter.

> Stuart
I'm a real Lama. :-)




From davidb at mcs.st-and.ac.uk  Thu Nov 18 19:18:08 2004
From: davidb at mcs.st-and.ac.uk (David Boddie)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 16:18:08 -0800
Subject: [PyQt] How to get the QRect of a QMenuBar (QPopupMenu) item ?
References: <cnfm98$lrs$1@ellebore.saclay.cea.fr>
Message-ID: <4de76ee2.0411181618.59a90abd@posting.google.com>

Erwan Adam <erwan.adam at cea.fr> wrote in message news:<cnfm98$lrs$1 at ellebore.saclay.cea.fr>...

> I try to introduce tooltips in my application written
> in PyQt (more precisly, in the menubar of my application)
> but I can't find a way to get the QRect instance
> associated to a QMenuBar item (neither a QPopupMenu item)

You need to call the itemGeometry method on your QPopupMenu
object with the index of the menu item you want to examine.

Something like this should work for popup menus:

# popup is a QPopupMenu containing several items
rect = popup.itemGeometry(2) # for the third item in the menu

It may be a little more difficult to get this information out
of QMenuBar because it looks like PyQt can't access the
itemRect function when the menu bar is created by a C++
object, such as a QMainWindow.

> I need the QRect 'cause I followed the tooltip.py file
> given with pyqt to do the job with a re-implementation
> of "maybeTip( self, pos )".

Are you trying to implement tooltips on menu items?

You may find that regulars on the PyQt/PyKDE mailing list can give
you more detailed advice:

http://mats.imk.fraunhofer.de/mailman/listinfo/pykde

Good luck!

David


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 18:32:12 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:32:12 -0500
Subject: Python 2.4 and Visual C++ Express
In-Reply-To: <KO6pd.5049226$ic1.472572@news.easynews.com>
References: <XQfod.15475$3u6.726077@wagner.videotron.net>
	<9APod.4998157$ic1.468025@news.easynews.com>
	<30ji62F31ppn0U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<KO6pd.5049226$ic1.472572@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <1f7befae041124153249a0b892@mail.gmail.com>

[Jive]
...
> In any case, I think it would be a Good Thing if the Pythonistas
> provided a download of 2.4 compiled under VC++ 6.0, in addition to
> the 7.1 one.

That requires someone who cares enough to volunteer the work, or to
fund the work (presuming someone exists who could be convinced to do
the work for pay).  For various reasons I, and later Raymond
Hettinger, cared enough to keep the MSVC 6 project files working with
Python 2.4, but nobody voluntered to produce a Windows installer for
2.4 based on MSVC 6.  There's no policy against that, but Pythons
don't grow on trees.


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Thu Nov 11 09:44:59 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 06:44:59 -0800
Subject: re.compile.match() results in unicode strings - why?
In-Reply-To: <2vh2mlF2lbkrdU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2vh2mlF2lbkrdU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <41938e20$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Axel Bock wrote:
> .... I match a string with
>     exp = re.compile(blah)
>     m = exp.match(string)
>     a,b,c,d = m.groups()
> now a,b,c,d are all string variables, 
This shows a misunderstanding.  Python does not have typed variables.
     a,b,c,d = 'a', 'b', 'c', 'd'
     a = 4.5
     b = 3+5j
     c = u'\N{LATIN CAPITAL LETTER D WITH STROKE}one'
     d = repr
is perfectly legal.
> ... and [a,b,c,d] all come out as unicode > strings (u"xxx").

The example is not concrete enough to reproduce.  Please give particular
examples for blah and string.

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From jzheng at jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Nov 12 15:59:04 2004
From: jzheng at jpl.nasa.gov (Jason Zheng)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:59:04 -0800
Subject: popen help
In-Reply-To: <cn35rs$55m$1@nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov>
References: <mailman.6315.1100290401.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cn35rs$55m$1@nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <cn386p$6bm$1@nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov>

Jason Zheng wrote:
> exarkun at intarweb.us wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:29:46 -0800, Jason Zheng <jzheng at jpl.nasa.gov> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm trying to open a subshell to run some csh commands, and I want to 
>>> connect the stdout of the subshell to the main stdout:
>>>
>>> sub = Popen4('csh -f')
>>> sub.tochild.write('source source.me\n')
>>> sub.tochild.write('runthis\n')
>>> sub.tochild.close()
>>>
>>> for x in sub.fromchild.readlines():
>>>   print x
>>>
>>
>>
>>>>> import os, time
>>>>> for x in iter(os.popen('for x in `seq 3`; do echo $x; sleep 1; 
>>>>> done').readline, ''):
>>
>>
>> ...     print time.time(), x,
>> ... 1100290304.55 1
>> 1100290305.56 2
>> 1100290306.56 3
>>
>>   The difference is that readline() returns one line whereas 
>> readlines() returns all of the lines.  Since you cannot know what all 
>> the lines are until you have read all of the data, it cannot return 
>> until the child process exits.
>>
>>   Jp
> 
> Jp,
> 
> I doubt that's gonna resolve the problem I have tho. Suppose I send one 
> command which doesn't not have the 'sleep' but prints some output line 
> periodically, wouldn't I have to wait till the end of the execution to 
> see any output?
> 
> Can I just connect sys.stdout to the stdout of the subshell?
> 
> jz
Nevermind, I think I understand now... I thought that the close() call 
was blocking executation. Thanks!


From NutJob at gmx.net  Thu Nov 18 11:47:06 2004
From: NutJob at gmx.net (Markus Kemp)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 08:47:06 -0800
Subject: Need function to test if EFFECTIVE UID has read-access to a
	file.
References: <9b96ed1.0411170915.2b88da0e@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6498.1100715267.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9b96ed1.0411180847.17d4f7af@posting.google.com>

Oh, and another reason why I can't use the method suggested by you is
that I'm dealing with directories, not files. Then again .... I guess
I could do something like:


try:
    os.listdir( strPathname )
except:
    print "No read access to pathname", strPathname, "!"


Problem is, I don't wanna catch __everything__. Does anyone know what
kind of exception is.listdir() throws if it fails to read a directory?


From wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de  Tue Nov  2 12:19:25 2004
From: wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de (Wolfgang Keller)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 18:19:25 +0100
Subject: JMS for CPython via JPype?
Message-ID: <1b2k1czwwox4i$.ae466jlsmeu2$.dlg@40tude.net>

Hello,

sorry for the potentially dumb question, but - would JPype make it possible 
for a CPython program to use JMS? It seems that JMS is going to become a
standard for (java-based) MOM, so as an excellent middleware language it
should be possible for CPython to somehow "talk" (and understand) JMS...

TIA,

Best regards

Wolfgang Keller


From kayschluehr at gmx.de  Sat Nov 27 07:23:12 2004
From: kayschluehr at gmx.de (Kay Schluehr)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:23:12 +0100
Subject: Protecting Python source
Message-ID: <41A871B0.4000308@gmx.de>

You can passwort-protect Your zip-files, but how will the passwort ( 
private keys )
be protected?

As Alex Martelli stated: one option is a client-server / webservice 
application which is only used but
by Your customer but not owned by him. Another option is the usage of 
secure hardware i.e.
smartcards and a PKI infrastructure. But this requires probably 
additional appropriate hardware.

If You simply want to fool Your customer You can embed the Python 
interpreter into a C-program,
then zip Your scripts into a file "custom.zip" and rename it to 
"custom.dll" or "custom.ocx" or something else.
At least the cracker should have fun, puzzling this out. But also this 
"solution" will never be more secure than
a compiled C-source. Same with all the Pyrex, py2exe and 
py-2-don't-know-what solutions.

Ciao
        Kay



From cme at lampcoders.net  Wed Nov 10 15:15:50 2004
From: cme at lampcoders.net (Christian Meissner)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:15:50 +0100
Subject: Announce: csv_xs.py
References: <BDB81C1E.1C8E%cme@lampcoders.net>
	<AJ-dnX4xUIX97g_cRVn-sQ@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <BDB83586.1CB2%cme@lampcoders.net>

> What you do is not csv parsing!
> 
> You are just splitting the rows by
> the separator character (a triviality).
> But this character may be inside the field
> enclosed within quotation characters.
> 
> 
> Istvan.

atm it is work in progress, so i will extends it if it is nessesary ...



From mauriceling at acm.org  Sun Nov  7 01:04:01 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 17:04:01 +1100
Subject: Newsgroup mood [was] why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6011.1099764243.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6011.1099764243.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418DBAD1.70702@acm.org>

  > 3) Links to threads that answer common questions
> Yes, there is an FAQ and yet people still ask why Python gets division
> wrong. But I've often seen people dig up links to threads for questions
> perhaps not so common to be written up in an FAQ, but perhaps common
> enough to merit linking on a wiki page. I'm not under the illusion that 
> it would solve the problem on its own, but it might well head some 
> repeat questions off. For those it doesn't, it would give an easy way to 
> answer.
> 
This may be useful but it will certainly bring us a new set of questions 
then, in the form of "is this <whatever information> still holds for 
<some latest version of python>?" Although computer science stems from 
mathematics, it had lost an important aspect of mathematics, that is, 
"once proven true is forever true."

maurice


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 28 19:46:13 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 01:46:13 +0100
Subject: Is there a consensus on how to check a polymorphic instance?
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>
	<Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1gnzok5.1ewvjgm9it36pN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Dan Perl <danperl at rogers.com> wrote:

> I have a question here, as we are discussing now protocol interfaces vs.
> inheritance.  Is using a class that implements a protocol without inheriting
> from a base class still "polymorphism"?

``still'' is inappropriate here.  It is _fully_ polymorphism, of course.
It's known as signature-based polymorphism.  C++ has it in templates,
only, where it's the basis of the whole power of the standard library
containers, algorithms, iterators, etc.  Python has it everywhere,
except where some coder breaks everything with 'isinstance' or the like.

>  There are probably many definitions 
> for polymorphism and probably all those definitions can be interpreted in
> such a way that they accept also protocols.  But what I would like to hear

Otherwise they're very broken and useless definitions.

> is what is the general opinion of people who use python.  I am biased
> because I come from a C++ and Java background and I am still used to a
> certain practical meaning for "polymorphism".

One that doesn't apply to C++ templates?!

>  But it's beginning to dawn on 
> me that it is only a bias and polymorphism does apply also to python 
> protocol interfaces.  Is that generally accepted?

Yep.


Alex


From chazen at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 22:20:57 2004
From: chazen at gmail.com (Charlie DeTar)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 22:20:57 -0500
Subject: Embedding Python in MaxMSP
In-Reply-To: <b89831b8.0411231734.5dc2608a@posting.google.com>
References: <b89831b8.0411231734.5dc2608a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <co3j2r$16ga$1@merrimack.dartmouth.edu>

Oh, in case anyone out there cares or had the same problem at some 
point:  I was able to fix this by adding "-lpython2.3" to the ld command 
list.  Probably something to do with "Python.h" not corresponding to 
"libpython.a"?  Maybe there ought to be links 
(libpython.a->libpython2.3.a), so that embedded applications don't 
depend on particular versions of python?

cheers,
Charlie

Charlie DeTar wrote:
[snip]
> /usr/bin/gcc-3.3  -o "/Users/tc1/Sources/MaxMSP-SDK/Mach-O
> Development/nyptho/build/nyptho.mxo/Contents/MacOS/nyptho"  
> "-L/Users/tc1/Sources/MaxMSP-SDK/Mach-O Development/nyptho/build"
> "-L/sw/lib/python2.3/config/" "-F/Users/tc1/Sources/MaxMSP-SDK/Mach-O
> Development/nyptho/build" "-F/Library/Frameworks"  -filelist
> "/Users/tc1/Sources/MaxMSP-SDK/Mach-O
> Development/nyptho/build/nyptho.build/nyptho.build/Objects-normal/LinkFileList"
>  "-framework" "Carbon" "-framework" "MaxAPI"  "-arch" "ppc" "-bundle"
> "-ldl"
> ld: Undefined symbols:
> _PyEval_InitThreads
> _PyRun_SimpleFile
> _PyRun_SimpleString
> _PySys_SetArgv
> _Py_Finalize
> _Py_Initialize 
[snip]


From donn at drizzle.com  Sat Nov 27 12:16:23 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:16:23 -0000
Subject: protocols, inheritance and polymorphism
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>
	<Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<YWKod.137814$HA.44609@attbi_s01>
	<donn-F6A9D8.11153623112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<tqadnT2kAIXJEj7cRVn-hA@rogers.com>
	<donn-F39B72.13183123112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<mqedndyH_YCYUT7cRVn-uQ@rogers.com>
	<donn-D778C1.17100223112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<786dnYZkrq-ieT7cRVn-tw@rogers.com> <1101273995.954137@yasure>
	<s4qdnUDCJoJ9vjncRVn-hA@rogers.com>
	<tyfhdnefhcf.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<41a6340f$0$307$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<tyfvfbsewc3.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <1101575782.366954@yasure>

Quoth Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch>:
[ ... re C++ casting to subtype ]
| Yes, you can "easily" do the work that the absent dynamic type system
| should be doing for you (and Turing equivalence tells us that that we
| can implement a decent dynamic type system as well). The fact remains
| that the objects *are* *dynamically* typed, even though the language
| claims to be statically typed. The fact that statically typed
| languages feel the need to introduce dynamic typing (however poorly
| supported it may be) in order to support OOP, points to the fact that
| static type systems DO have problems with OOP, which is what the
| question was about.
|
| Specifically, dynamic polymorphism is impossible without dynamic
| typing.

Given a model for polymorphism that means smuggling an object
around wrapped in some degree of mystery about its type, elegant
and sound static typing does seem unlikely.  But C++ and its
descendents have always been easy targets.  Would you happen to
know something about how Objective CAML's OO system approaches this?

I see in the on-line documentation this paragraph:

   Be aware that subtyping and inheritance are not related. Inheritance
   is a syntactic relation between classes while subtyping is a semantic
   relation between types. For instance, the class of colored points could
   have been defined directly, without inheriting from the class of points;
   the type of colored points would remain unchanged and thus still be a
   subtype of points. 

http://caml.inria.fr/ocaml/htmlman/manual005.html

I'm thinking that this might be more or less typical of academic
ideas about OO typing, and it seems conceptually appealing.  I
don't know the details though.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From deets.nospaaam at web.de  Tue Nov  2 07:22:30 2004
From: deets.nospaaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:22:30 +0100
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<Xns9591642B12E85duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<slrncoeo0g.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <2upcg9F2ca8muU1@uni-berlin.de>

> Note that this is also an example showing that C++ does contain a little
> bit of dynamic typing, too, isn't it?

On a related note: c++ _can_ have some dynamic type information - when not
disabled with -fno-rtti (gcc) you get "real time type identification". That
allows for (guess why there called that way...) dynamic casts.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 12 19:40:20 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:40:20 -0700
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<slrncp8tqi.c7p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6310.1100281534.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<121120041606297367%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>
Message-ID: <cn3l5l$gsj$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jean Brouwers wrote:

> 
> Fernando,
> 
> Just curious, does 'gtk/WX' in your message below mean wxPython?

Yes.

> If so, does this signal handling code actually work with wxPython?> 

It does, but not in a generic manner: this is code for ipython to support
matplotlib's WX backend in an interactive shell.  It allows you to type into
ipython plotting commands which cause matplotlib to open a WX plotting window,
and the interactive terminal continues to function.  You can have multiple WX
plotting windows open, and the command line keeps on chugging.

But this relies on a special collaborative hack between matplotlib and ipython.
matplotlib, in its WX and GTK backends (Tk doesn't need this) has a special
flag to indicate who is in control of the mainloop.  In standalone scripts,
everything works in the typical manner.  But if ipython comes in, it will set
this flag, telling matplotlib to keep off the mainoop.

It's pretty hackish, but it works in practice pretty well.  

here's the relevant matplotlib WX code (trimmed of docstring):

def show():

    for figwin in Gcf.get_all_fig_managers():
        figwin.frame.Show()
        figwin.canvas.realize()
        figwin.canvas.draw()

    if show._needmain and not matplotlib.is_interactive():
        wxapp.MainLoop()
        show._needmain = False
show._needmain = True

When ipython starts up, it sets show._needmain to False, so that the Mainloop()
call is never made.  You can look at the whole code from ipython if you wish,
it's in IPython/Shell.py.

best,

f



From digital_ant2 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  5 02:06:15 2004
From: digital_ant2 at yahoo.com (digital_ant2)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 07:06:15 -0000
Subject: Script Generation, help!
Message-ID: <cmf8p7+a0v5@eGroups.com>


I'm new to python, so I'll be at detailed as I can be.

I need to generate a script where each line is like this:

Spam=(x)
Spam=(y)
Spam=(z)

each entry being on their own line, Spam is a string of text and
x,y,and z are random numbers, I also need it to be exported to a text
file with a specified extension.... being completely NEW to python I
push in the right direction would be really helpfull!

Thanks,
Pat






From cjw at sympatico.ca  Wed Nov 10 19:08:09 2004
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:08:09 -0500
Subject: distutils and Debian
Message-ID: <4192AD69.5040707@sympatico.ca>

The distutils download page has:
--------------------------------------------------------
Current stable release

The current stable release is Distutils 1.0.2; you can download it as:

     * Distutils-1.0.2.tar.gz (source distribution) (233k)
     * Distutils-1.0.2.zip (source distribution) (274k)
     * Distutils-1.0.2.win32.exe (Windows installer) (187k)

If you are running Python version 1.6 or later, you do not need to 
download the Distutils: they're included with Python. However, if you 
have a Distutils more recent than your Python, you might want to install 
it: see the Distutils README.txt file. Version 1.0.2 is identical to the 
version included in Python 2.1.
---------------------------------------------------------

With Debian, it seems that distutils is not included for
Python 2.2 or 2.3.

Should this be reported as a Debian bug?

Colin W.


From pwatson at redlinepy.com  Thu Nov 18 22:32:52 2004
From: pwatson at redlinepy.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:32:52 -0600
Subject: ping-based network monitoring GUI?
References: <mailman.6519.1100737717.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3057rfF2s8jdtU1@uni-berlin.de>

"Count L?szl? de Alm?sy" <calmasy at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.6519.1100737717.5135.python-list at python.org...
> Greetings,
>
> I'm in need of a simple GUI application that "monitors" a range of
> hosts using ping and reports on their status by changing the panel
> color for that host (i.e, green for pingable, red for unreachable).
>
> Does anyone know of any existing opensource program that does this?
> Preferably Python so I can extend it easily.
>
> If not, what tools would you recommend I write this kind of app in?
> Ping doesn't seem to be supported by Python out of the box, and the
> modules I've looked at seem sketchy.  I looked at Expect, and see
> there's a Pexpect module available.  Once I have the core
> functionality nailed down, I'll probably wrap it with Tkinter.
>
> Thanks for any advice.

You might want to take a look at Big Brother.

http://www.bb4.org/

It provides a web interface.  While it is not written in Python, you can add 
tests in any language, including Python.  If you only want 'ping' to be 
used, you can remove many of the default monitoring reports. 




From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 10 22:29:38 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:29:38 -0700
Subject: tkinter gnuplot
References: <mailman.6245.1100124544.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmu4re$fvd$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
	<1100137324.13730.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <cmumce$lud$1@sea.gmane.org>

F?bio Mendes wrote:

> Or even scipy. It's a great scientific library and I think it uses
> gnuplot as one of the graphical frontends (http://scipy.org) . I'm not
> sure if it allows you to pass arbitrary gnuplot commands, but if you
> want to build such a thing, surely the source could be helpful.

The gnuplot support in scipy is more or less deprecated, as scipy has a new
framework (Chaco) coming down the pipe, and much of today's scipy user base is
moving over to matplotlib.

For the diehard gnuplot users (a group I happen to still belong to), Gnuplot.py
offers a pretty clean interface.  IPython (http://ipython.scipy.org) adds a
fair amount of functionality to make interactive gnuplot work much more
efficient, as well as simplifying some common tasks with a better syntax.

But again, the problem is that gnuplot was not meant to be embedded as a Tk
widget, which was the OP's intent.  The tkcanvas terminal type is an intriguing
option, but I have no idea how hard (if it's even possible) it would be to use
that in a Python/Tkinter application.

Best,

f



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Nov 24 00:13:50 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:13:50 +1300
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <zn18e7pm.fsf@telus.net>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.23.07.09.08.229463@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<zn18e7pm.fsf@telus.net>
Message-ID: <30ijkhF31dg9sU1@uni-berlin.de>

Lenard Lindstrom wrote:
> So Delphi is definitely not BASIC-derived. It is BASIC-like in that various
> basic dialects, including QBasic, came to support the structured programming
> that Pascal was designed from the beginning to teach.

So it would be more accurate to say that those Basic
dialects are, in those respects, Pascal-like...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov  1 04:58:23 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 09:58:23 GMT
Subject: List problem
References: <clttqo$gfu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
	<mailman.5668.1099072329.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<v2m9o0d7d1v3h4doumfkmb4djk41u0gb9c@4ax.com>
	<1gmiyon.jvyq1w1ob9r59N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41853d5f.1278687054@news.oz.net>
	<1gmjqh9.oialil1r1xwffN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41858eaa.1299498379@news.oz.net>
	<1gmkg86.1nzf8g91e7yby5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <418603c1.1325873395@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:46:09 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

>Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
>   ...
>> >def delsome_am(n=1000000, todel=[2]):
>> >    a = range(n)
>> >    a = [x for x in a if x not in todel]
>>      ^-- shud be a[:] ;-)
>> (I think the missing return a is in the noise ;-)
>
>Right, sorry.
>
>> >kallisti:/tmp alex$ python -mtimeit -s'import br' 'br.delsome_br()'
>> >10 loops, best of 3: 4.44 sec per loop
>> >kallisti:/tmp alex$ python -mtimeit -s'import br' 'br.delsome_am()'
>> >10 loops, best of 3: 3.92 sec per loop
>> >
>> I thought you had 'way faster machines than mine. Neither time is an
>> improvement over delsome_br for 2.3.2 on my old box. I wonder what's up.
>
>I ran these on an 800 MHz laptop, the one I invariably use for netting
>-- best ergonomics.  OK, I'll try with faster machines when I get a
>chance -- I'm surprised you measure almost a 1:2 ratio with _br faster.
>
Maybe the listcomp optimizations were introduced in 2.3.4? Or even 2.4.x?

I have Python 2.3.2 on an old 300 MHz P2 with 320 MB RAM and NT4 as OS,
so the mystery deepens ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Nov 17 03:17:44 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:17:44 +0100
Subject: inserting bracketings into a string
References: <mailman.6460.1100648300.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cnf1d3$156$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Steven Bethard wrote:

> I'm trying to insert some bracketings in a string based on a set of
> labels and associated start and end indices.??For?example,?I'd?like?to
> do something like:
> 
>>>> text = 'abcde fgh ijklmnop qrstu vw xyz'
>>>> spans = [('A', 0, 9), ('B', 6, 9), ('C', 25, 31)]
>>>> insert_bracketings(text, spans)
> '[A abcde [B fgh]] ijklmnop qrstu [C vw xyz]'

Not tested beyond what you see:

text = 'abcde fgh ijklmnop qrstu vw xyz'
spans = [('A', 0, 9), ('B', 6, 9), ('C', 25, 31)]

def insert_bracketings(text, spans):
    inserts = [(s, "[%s " % r) for (r, s, t) in spans]
    inserts.extend([(t, "]") for (r, s, t) in spans])
    inserts.sort()
    inserts.reverse()
    text = list(text)
    for (r, s) in inserts:
        text.insert(r, s)
    return "".join(text)
        
assert ('[A abcde [B fgh]] ijklmnop qrstu [C vw xyz]' 
          == insert_bracketings(text, spans))
    
Peter
 



From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sun Nov 14 08:23:05 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:23:05 +0100
Subject: simple recursion help
References: <Gpyed.320058$bp1.6526@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<VUyed.320061$bp1.273357@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<mailman.5375.1098565018.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm4uqv.nmgjbj1vt0spjN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0410231916.450f67d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a5uxtxctfpx7.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Hung Jung Lu (2004-10-24 04:16 +0100)
> Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Does anyone know what this operation is called?  It's not permutations or
>> combinations as I understand them since permutations and combinations do
>> not allow repetition.  I assume there was already a solution for this
>> somewhere, but I didn't know what term to google for.
> ---------------------------------------------------
> aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:
>> There's been a recent thread where the OP called them 'permutations',
>> somebody commented they're 'variations'.  In that thread you'll find a
>> bazillion solutions, recursive and non, with or without itertools, &c.
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> (1) "Variation" is the same as "permutation".

Sorry, no.

> It's matter of semantics. 

It's a matter of definition and the definitions of both don't have
anything in common.

> Some people use the notation V(n, k), some people use the notation
> P(n, k). For people that use the term "variation", the term
> "permutation" is reserved for the special case V(n, n).

That's misleading: the special case of a variation without repetition
of the nth degree is the same as a permutation without repetition of
that set. But the definitions of both are very different.

Variations /with/ repetition are also equal to the "cartesian product"
of the set with itself. But that doesn't mean that "cartesian product"
and variation (with repetition) are the same.

Let me explain:
In combinatorics there are two distinct kinds of "operations":
permutations and combinations[1].

PERMUTATIONS
____________
A permutation is a "bijective mapping on itself" which means that each
permutation has the same length and consists of all elements of the
original set.

Permutations are divided into
* permutations without repetition = n!
* permutations with    repetition = n! / (s1! * ... * sr!)

For instance:
[11, 22, 33, 44, 55, 66, 77] has 7! = 5040 different permutations
(without repetition)

[11, 22, 22, 33, 44, 44, 44] has 7! / (2! * 3!) = 420 different
permutations (with repetition)

COMBINATIONS
____________
A combination is a subset of the original set (also sometimes
described as "ball picking". "Repetition" is sometimes called "putting
back").

Combinations are divided into
* unordered combinations without repetition
* unordered combinations with    repetition
* ordered   combinations without repetition
* ordered   combinations with    repetition

Of course that was too difficult to remember even for a mathematician
so it was decided (about one hundred years ago) that ordered
combinations should now be called "variations" and unordered
combinations should now be called "combinations".

So since then there are:
* combinations without repetition = n! / (k! * (n - k)!)
* combinations with    repetition = (n + k - 1)! / ((n - 1)! * k!)
* variations   without repetition = n! / (n - k)!
* variations   with    repetition = n ** k

And this is where the confusion starts:

* the binomial coefficient "(n over k) = n! / (k! * (n - k)!)" is
sometimes called C(n, k).

* "n! / (n - k)!" is sometimes called P(n, k)

So you can also give the number of different combinations and
variations like this:
* combinations without repetition = C(n, k)
* combinations with    repetition = C(n + k - 1, k)
* variations   without repetition = P(n, k)


Thorsten

[1] For a quick overview have a look at
http://www.eco.uc3m.es/stefan/phd-sum/probl2004.pdf


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Wed Nov  3 01:53:24 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 22:53:24 -0800
Subject: HTML to Text renderer
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E324510E@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
	<mailman.5856.1099442198.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9acm52-st1.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Ian Bicking wrote:
> Right.  And word wrapping too.  Some other tags would also be
> interesting: <blockquote>, <pre>, <hr>, <table>, &nbsp;, and something
> to control alignment (e.g., <p align="">).

Usually I resort to using one of the text based browsers (eg lynx/links/w3m)
which all have a mode to dump plain text out formatted in that way.

Roger 




From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Nov 23 09:09:42 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:09:42 -0500
Subject: Filling Forms ( What is the best way to Print on Forms)
In-Reply-To: <cb15338f.0411230441.1b04a6d1@posting.google.com>
References: <cb15338f.0411230441.1b04a6d1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <qyHod.2023$QR.1356@lakeread01>

Alex wrote:

> Please advice: I have some DMV forms that I would like to print on to
> fill the answers, is there any good software to do this with? Any free
> software to do this? I need to align it so the prints go on the
> designated response areas!
> 
> Thanks a Million!
> 
> Alex
> 11-23-04
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Take a look at www.reportlab.org - the open source toolkit should do 
what you want.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  8 06:20:51 2004
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 11:20:51 +0000
Subject: SAX parse string to Handler??
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6108.1099909718.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6108.1099909718.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <wCIjd.41183$Z14.16277@news.indigo.ie>

[Juliano Freitas]
 > here is my pythn code that's handle a xml file:

Juliano,

I think you're better off using the standard sax parsing facilities than 
those inside saxexts, etc.

Try this code

#==================================================
import xml.sax

class swdbHandler(xml.sax.handler.ContentHandler):
     def __init__(self):
         self.flag = 0

     def startElement(self, name, atts):
         if name == "swml":
             print "enter"

     def endElement(self, name):
         if name == "swml":
             print "exit"

xml_string="<swml><contents/></swml>"

xml.sax.parseString(xml_string, swdbHandler())
#==================================================

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
------------------------------------------------------
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/contact/alan


From beps at email.it  Wed Nov 24 03:30:24 2004
From: beps at email.it (beps)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:30:24 +0100
Subject: Text widget - insert line
References: <cnt1el$san$1@news.newsland.it>
	<41a21527$0$8170$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<cnt8is$tt7$1@news.newsland.it> <30emukF2u6uf7U2@uni-berlin.de>
	<cntqav$jd4$1@news.newsland.it> <2KGod.2017$QR.1630@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <co1gqu$ti3$1@news.newsland.it>




as you have written you I return to the problem begins them, that is the
customers do not go to new line. I must recover the index of the last
column of the data.


-- 

questo articolo e` stato inviato via web dal servizio gratuito 
http://www.newsland.it/news segnala gli abusi ad abuse at newsland.it




From Python at IvoNet.nl  Wed Nov 10 10:08:11 2004
From: Python at IvoNet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:08:11 +0100
Subject: ConfigParser - MyConfigParser.py (0/1)
References: <nrr3p0d03b1p2pcvk7irgbm1k0nurndehj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <0jb4p096ot0dchcm7gdr7u25g3agi5e6s8@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:39:27 GMT, Manlio Perillo
<NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it> wrote:

>Regards.
>
>Since sections in CongiParser files are delimited by [ and ], why
>there is not an escape (and unescape) function for escaping
>&, [, and ] characters to &amp;, &lbrack; and &rbrack; ?
>
>
>
>
>Thanks   Manlio Perillo


Next try with attachment MyConfigParser.py
Just save and run to see
Cheerz,
Ivo.


From peter at designtheory.org  Sat Nov 13 21:24:04 2004
From: peter at designtheory.org (Peter Dobcsanyi)
Date: 14 Nov 2004 02:24:04 GMT
Subject: numarray memory leak
Message-ID: <cn6fk4$akl$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk>

Calling the following function with a large enough 'n' causes memory leak.

    import numarray as N

    def loop(n, m=100):
        for i in xrange(n):
            a = N.zeros((m,m))
            N.matrixmultiply(a, a)

If the matrixmultiply line is commented out, there is no leak, the
program has a stable memory size.

I am using numarray 1.1, the result is the same with Python 2.3.4 and
2.4b2.

    Peter


From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 23 08:00:55 2004
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 05:00:55 -0800
Subject: is int(round(val)) safe?
References: <rowen-8AF206.11131622112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0411230500.6352eb31@posting.google.com>

"Russell E. Owen" <rowen at cesmail.net> wrote in message news:<rowen-8AF206.11131622112004 at gnus01.u.washington.edu>...
> I realize this probably a stupid question, but...is it safe to 
> round to the nearest integer by using int(round(val))?
> 
> I suspect it is fine, but wanted to be sure that weird floating point 
> representation on some platform might make it unsafe there (i.e. get the 
> wrong value due to the floating point value being an approximation) and 
> if so, is there a Better Way).

Yes, int(round(val)) is safe.  The only concern is avoiding errors in
"val" itself.  For example,

>>> val
3.4999999999999996      # Should have been exactly 3.5
>>> int(round(val))
3                       # Should have been 4


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Tue Nov 16 11:54:42 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 14:54:42 -0200
Subject: adaptation
In-Reply-To: <419A16CE.3050907@bellsouth.net>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<20041114200132.20649.1982992758.divmod.quotient.5222@ohm>
	<mailman.6390.1100553070.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbf8z.mirt8m687hvbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6397.1100570319.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnc2jt.uw5i19s61aieN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6409.1100591151.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gncdvv.1y2msbz1yc1gaeN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cxomd.93401$HA.21918@attbi_s01> <419A16CE.3050907@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <864d370904111608547c94c7c9@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:03:42 -0500, Jeremy Jones <zanesdad at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Bryan wrote:
> 
> > alex,
> >
> > you've mentioned several times the concept of adapting parameters to a
> > method.  but i'm not able to understand your few examples.  can you go
> > more into depth (and with simpler examples) on this topic?
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > bryan
> 
> Bryan,
> 
> Thanks for asking this.  You aren't alone in wanting to know more.
> 
> Jeremy

Well, my name is not Alex, and my answer will probably fall short of a
comprehensive definition :-) But let's see if I can help here...

Adaptation is the act of taking one object and making it conform to a
given protocol (or interface). Adaptation is the key to make dynamic
code that takes parameters from arbitrary types work in a safe, well
behaved way.

The basic concept underlying adaptation is the "protocol", also called
"interface" in some implementations. For all purposes of this
discussion, and for simplicity reasons, we can safely assume that
protocols and interfaces are equivalent.

A protocol is a set of primitives that is supported by a given object.
For example: the iterator protocol defines the following primitives:
__iter__ and next() (as documented in
http://docs.python.org/lib/typeiter.html). Any object from any class
that implement these methods, regardless of its ancestors, is said to
support the iterator protocol.

Any object that supports the iterator protocol can be used whenever an
iterable is acceptable. This includes for loops and list
comprehensions. The biggest advantage of adaptation comes when one
realize how flexible this design is, specially when compared with
old-style type checking. In a old-style type checking environment,
parameters to a given routine must conform to the declared type of the
arguments. For iterators, it would mean that only objects descending
from some abstract class (let's say, "Iterable") would be accepted.
Now, even with multiple inheritance, this design is severely limited.

Now, back to Python world. In many situations, there is no need for
adaptation; the object itself supports the protocol, and can be
supplied directly. But there are situations when the object itself
can't be immediately used; it has to be adapted, or prepared, to
support the protocol. Another situation is when an object is passed to
a routine that *doesn't* support the required protocol; this is an
error, that can be catched by the adapt() framework in a superficially
similar but fundamentally different approach from type checking (and
that's whats Alex has been pointing out).

The adapt protocol (as presented on PEP246 -
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0246.html) defines a very flexible
framework to adapt one object to a protocol. The result of the
adaptation (if possible) is an object that is guaranteed to support
the protocol. So, using adapt(), we can write code like this:

def myfunc(obj):
    for item in adapt(obj, Iterable):
        ...

Finally, one may be wondering, is there any situation when an object
needs to be "adapted"? Why don't just check for the availability of
the interface? There are many reasons to use the adapt framework. The
protocol checking is one of the reasons -- it allows errors to be
catched much earlier, and at a better location. Another possible
reason is that complex objects may support several protocols, and
there may be name clashes between some of the methods. One such
situation is when an object support different *versions* of the same
protocol. All versions have the same method names, but semantics may
differ slightly. The adapt() call can build a new object with the
correct method names and signatures, for each protocol or version
supported by the object. Finally, the adaptation method can optionally
build an opaque "proxy" object, that hides details of the original
methods signature, and it's thus safer to pass around.

Well, that's a broad overview of the subject. There is a lot of stuff
to learn, and using adaptation properly is something that takes some
time. Hope it helps.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From rays at blue-cove.com  Tue Nov 30 19:37:25 2004
From: rays at blue-cove.com (RayS)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:37:25 -0800
Subject: Running External Programs from Within Python
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.01.31.21.50.51.733357@phreaker.net>
References: <5a40bf6a.0401311123.4b7f783f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20041130162358.0225fd60@blue-cove.com>

At 10:50 PM 1/31/2004 +0100, Nuff Said wrote:
>On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:23:42 -0800, Bob=Moore wrote:

If anyone is interested, I used the following non-threaded code; I tried 
pipedream.py, but had apparent timing issues with the threads that I 
couldn't clear up.
I usually use wxPython. An *NIX version would be interesting as well (hint).
The external .exe is an interactive DOS-menu'd program in FORTRAN.

==================  snip  =============================

import os
import time
from wxPython.wx import *
import win32pipe


def getDataFrom(pipe):
     done = False
     timeout = 4 ## seconds
     start_time = time.time()
     data = ''
     error = None
     while not done:
         try:
             ## check to see if the 'file' has any data, using stat()
             #print os.fstat(input.fileno())[6],
             if(os.fstat(pipe.fileno())[6]!=0):
                 ## this will read up to a large amount
                 data = os.read(pipe.fileno(), 2**16)
             elif(len(data)):
                 ## if the read was done on the last loop, we can quit
                 done = True
                 #print 'read all'
             elif((time.time() - start_time) > timeout):
                 ## something went wrong
                 done = True
                 print 'Error; read timed out'
             else:
                 ## might be starting up the remote process...
                 time.sleep(.01)
         except (IOError, OSError):
             print '(IOError, OSError)',(IOError, OSError)
             done = True
     return [error, data]

def driveRemote(stdinput, stdoutput, resp):
     """ takes pipes and a string to send
         always gets the current DOS output first... """
     timeOut, result  = getDataFrom(stdoutput)
     if timeOut:
         print 'timedOut resp', result
         return timeOut

     print "remote:'%s'" % result[-60:],

     if (result==('' or None)):
         dlg = wxMessageDialog(parent, "resp not received!"+"\nGot 
'"+result+"'",
           'Error', wxOK | wxICON_INFORMATION)
         try:
             dlg.ShowModal()
         finally:
             dlg.Destroy()
         pgDlg.Destroy()

     ## check for errors
     if (string.find(result, 'run-time error')>-1):
         print resp, '\n'
         dlg = wxMessageDialog(None, result,
           'Error!', wxOK | wxICON_INFORMATION)
         try:
             dlg.ShowModal()
         finally:
             dlg.Destroy()
             return 'error: '+result

     if resp!=None:
         try:
             print resp, '\n'
             os.write(stdinput.fileno(), resp+'\n')
         except IOError, e:
             print 'error; resp, reslt:', resp, result
             print "IOError %s" % e
     return result

## actually start, text mode
stdinput, stdoutput = win32pipe.popen4("FV4R.EXE", 't')
## go through a list of actions
for resp in actionList:
     result = driveRemote(stdinput, stdoutput, resp)

================  snap  =======================

> > Can I run (call? exec? eval?) an external program from inside a Python
> > program?
> >
>
>Check out os.popen (in all it's variants); e.g. something like
>the following will do what you want:
>
>   import os
>
>   stdin, stdout, stderr = os.popen3('your program goes here')
>   output = stdout.read()
>   errors = stderr.read()
>   stdin.close(); stdout.close(); stderr.close()
>
>   ... do something with 'output' and 'errors' ...
>
>HTH / Nuff
>
>--
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Nov  4 13:17:48 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 19:17:48 +0100
Subject: New configuration module released
References: <2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840@posting.google.com><4d2dnXe5XY7bmxTcRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<mailman.5876.1099519315.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<VPWdnWBATKx3wxTcRVn-ug@rogers.com> <2uv9goF2f3161U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cmdro8$d2c$04$2@news.t-online.com>

> I'm currently using YAML for configuration syntax. I don't need object
> references as in the OP's module, so I'm happy with it.

afaik yauml supports these, too. And it even carries type information, which
can be nice but sometimes sucks if you want your config file invariant of
class names or actual layout.

> It's also easy to change for users.

Yes, and there exist bindings for different languages. It also tries to be
clever about data types.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com  Thu Nov  4 14:16:41 2004
From: alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com (Ali)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 11:16:41 -0800
Subject: How to use python in matlab
References: <8f17f4bc.0410291738.2f3708b8@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5767.1099319977.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8f17f4bc.0411041116.8655ce2@posting.google.com>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.5767.1099319977.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> >>>>> "Ali" == Ali  <alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com> writes:
> 
>     Ali> How to use python in matlab?  --
> 
> Could you be more explicit about what you want to do - do you want to
> call a python script from within a matlab shell?
> 
> Note that python offers many tools which enable you to *replace*
> matlab with python.  See
> 
> Numeric  - array package with many matlab element wise operations and
>            functions - http://numpy.sourceforge.net/
> 
> numarray - the same but with enhanced indexing, better support for
>            large arrays and
>            more. http://www.stsci.edu/resources/software_hardware/numarray
> 
> matplotlib - 2D plotting with matlab syntax -
>              http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/
> 
> scipy - a vast collection of numeric tools, including support for
>         loading and saving mat files - http://www.scipy.org
> 
> and much more....
> 
> JDH

ok so is there a thing I can download that will do the symbolic stuff
that matlab can do?


From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  7 20:25:04 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 20:25:04 -0500
Subject: Stop spaces from appearing when printing to file
In-Reply-To: <cmmgiu$id5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <cmmgiu$id5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <418ec9ff$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>

Brad Tilley wrote:
> I'm printing some info into a txt file that will be uploaded into a 
> MySQL DB. I use ';' as field separaters. How can I stop spaces from 
> appearing on both sides of the ';'

The spaces are a feature of print. To avoid them, use string formatting 
to create a single output string.

> print >> x,';',object,";",AN_string,";",ascii,";",sum

Try
print >> x, ';%s;%s;%s;%s' % (object, AN_string, ascii, sum)

Kent

> 
> My file looks like this:
> 
> ;12345 ; 23456 ; [1,2,3,4,5] ; 15
> 
> I need it to look like this to make the DB happy:
> 
> ;12345;23456;[1,2,3,4,5];15


From exarkun at divmod.com  Thu Nov 11 10:05:00 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:05:00 GMT
Subject: sockets: How to know when your data is sent
In-Reply-To: <f00811ba.0411110646.72a233ca@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041111150500.20649.129828770.divmod.quotient.2707@ohm>

On 11 Nov 2004 06:46:45 -0800, mederis at hotmail.com (Marc Ederis) wrote:
>Richie Hindle <richie at entrian.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.6214.1100100615.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> > If you want to ensure that all the data has been sent before *closing* the
> > socket, which sounds like Marc's requirement, you can use
> > setsockopt(SO_LINGER):
> > 
> >        SO_LINGER
> >               Sets  or gets the SO_LINGER option. The argument is
> >               a linger structure.
> > 
> >               struct linger {
> >                   int   l_onoff;    /* linger active */
> >                   int   l_linger;   /* how many seconds to linger for */
> >               };
> > 
> >               When enabled, a close(2) or  shutdown(2)  will  not
> >               return  until  all  queued  messages for the socket
> >               have been successfully sent or the  linger  timeout
> >               has been reached. Otherwise, the call returns imme???
> >               diately and the closing is done in the  background.
> >               When  the  socket  is closed as part of exit(2), it
> >               always lingers in the background.
> > 
> > (from the GNU manpages).  I don't believe that's true for shutdown() on
> > all platforms, but I do believe it's true for close() / closesocket().
> > Calling it from Python is a bit of a chore involving the struct module,
> > and is left as an exercise for the reader.  8-)
> 
> SO_LINGER... Interesting, I'll keep that in mind for the future. In
> the end, acknowledging receipt of the data, as it was arriving at the
> server, turned out to be the best solution for me. I wanted to be able
> to show a progress bar (at the client) of the data being sent.
> 

  All this talk of fun socket options is neat, but I'd like to suggest you stick with your current instinct, as you decided for now and in the future.

  SO_LINGER only lets you know that the peer has ACK'd your data.  This means, typically, that it reached a kernel buffer.  It says nothing about the application level, and the application level is all you really care about.

  Doing application-level ACKs is the only really reliable way to know if your data was received.

  Jp


From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 28 11:36:59 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 11:36:59 -0500
Subject: [ANN] rpncalc-1.0 RPN Calculator For Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6851.1101655836.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6851.1101655836.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41a9fd4e$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

Ray Buvel wrote:
> Module that adds an interactive Reverse Polish Notation (RPN)
> interpreter to Python.  This interpreter allows the use of Python as
> an RPN calculator.  You can easily switch between the RPN interpreter
> and the standard Python interpreter.
> 
> Home page:  http://calcrpnpy.sourceforge.net/

The .tar.gz file seems to be corrupt, opening it with WinZip it 
uncompresses the .gz then I get "Error reading header after processing 0 
entries."

Kent


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Nov 11 14:55:47 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:55:47 -0800
Subject: Simple thread pools
In-Reply-To: <4190CBE9.5050801@holdenweb.com>
References: <mailman.6134.1099960287.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4190CBE9.5050801@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <20041109234944.F8A3.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> 
> Josiah Carlson wrote:
> 
> > Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

[another snip]
> > I had initially planned to create a listening socket, and generate a
> > bunch of local sockets, then I remembered os.pipe and said to myself, "to
> > hell with it, pipes should be faster, they bypass the network stack".
> > 
> Of course the example is then all running on the one machine, which 
> might influence elapsed times in a way that having servers remote 
> wouldn't, but it was a neat example just the same.

Certainly, it all but removes the latency between sending and receiving
data.  It also keeps the TCP/IP stack out of it.  The main desire was to
test the threads+system call slowdown theory, and it corroborated my
slowdown statement.


> > As they sometimes say, "there is more than one way to skin a cat",
> > though let us hope that there isn't any cat skinning.
> > 
> > If your processor spends time maxed out by your script, then you may do
> > better by reducing threads (processor limited, and not bandwidth/latency
> > limited).  As thread count increases, you spend more processor handling
> > overhead.  If it isn't maxed out, and you are running at the file handle
> > limit and/or the bandwidth limit, congrats.
> > 
> Well I'm happy to say I don't appear to be running at *any* limit just 
> at the moment. But clearly when you are CPU-limited then there's a 
> balance to be struck between thread-handling overhead and applications 
> processing.

Considering that your application is pushing emails out as fast as
possible, and mine is getting emails as fast as possible, then anything
can be the bottleneck.  The real question one should ask themselves when
writing a process that handles (arguably) too much data is "why is it
finishing in X minutes instead of X/2?"  Then again, as long as the
client is happy, it doesn't much matter.


> > Now, just because you are using fewer threads, doesn't mean that you
> > can't get equivalent throughput.  Heck, using a heavily modified variant
> > of asyncore, we've been able to handle 50,000 POP3 account checks (login,
> > stat, and if necessary: list, uidl, download email, delete email,
> > disconnect) every 15 minutes from a laptop.  Our biggest issue is
> > latency of our connection, but even then, we do well considering that
> > this is all with a single thread.
> > 
> The owner of that laptop needs to be given some work. Even *I* don't 
> check my mail every second :-)

It is an automated system, meant to check hundreds of thousands of email
accounts every 15 minutes (multiple processors/machines check 50k
accounts each processor every 15 minutes or so).


> I see we were indeed at cross purposes. The load I'm talking about is 
> bursty in the extreme - I am communicating with the MX hosts for each of 
> the receiving domains, and it takes less than 100ms to send some mails.

We don't do mx lookups, and our traffic can be bursty, though we use
dynamic scheduling to reduce/remove burstiness.  Some of our accounts do
complete fast, but others are on machines accross the world with low
bandwidth and high latency.


> For others I have to try several MX hosts to get any response at all 
> (each one with a 20-second timeout), and the reason I went to the 
> multi-threaded solution int he first place was to avoid having the whole 
> process wait on a single recalcitrant MX host.

Such things are not necessary.  If you keep records of socket
instantiation time, last data received time, last data sent time, data
transferred, etc., you can poll to disconnect on poor quality of service.
We check every 5 seconds for timed out connections, and have found the
results to be quite satisfactory.  No need to wait on a socket, use
select to multiplex.


> The client is very happy, as we've seen in increase in reliability and a 
> 48-fold speed up in elapsed time as a result of the (rather painful) 
> transition to multi-threading. This is clearly justification for using 
> 200 parallel threads, as on many threads the dominant factor in the 
> elapsed time is the remote server response (or absence thereof).

I am glad that your client is happy and that threading has been a good
solution for you.

All I'm saying is that you can get the same kinds of concurrency, same
kinds of throughput, same kinds of elapsed times, etc., with an
asynchronous approach and a single thread.  I suppose 'whatever floats 
[our] boats' and 'whatever implementation presents itself in the most
timely manner'.


There is one really nice thing about client programming...you don't need
to worry as much about a denial of service attack, as you control the
number of threads/forks/sockets/etc.  Well...except in the case of a
cruel server.


> The cases you are taking about may well require a more careful 
> consideration of threading overhead.

There are various reasons we went with an asynchronous approach, among
them being gross scalability (thousands of sockets with a Python
recompile).


 - Josiah



From devries at idolstarastronomer.com  Mon Nov 22 11:44:21 2004
From: devries at idolstarastronomer.com (Christopher De Vries)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 08:44:21 -0800
Subject: configure and make for distutils
Message-ID: <1101141861.220259.138590@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

The predominant operating system in my workplace is Solaris, with a bit
of Linux and MacOS X thrown in. As such people expect to install new
software with the sequence:

./configure
make
make install

I've written some python modules and scripts which I packaged as a
source distribution with distutils and sent it to some of my colleagues
so they could use the software, but despite the fact that I included
instructions on how to install the software (namely: type "python
setup.py install") I still heard back from several of them asking,
"Where is the configure script?" or "How do you compile this thing?"
Usually python is installed on their computers, but they have no
experience installing python packages and do not seem to read
installation instructions.

In order to make installation seem more familiar for unix users I have
written a configure script that checks the path for python, optionally
checks the python version number, and checks to see if distutils is
installed. It will optionally check if other modules are installed by
trying "import" on them. The configure script is written in shell
script and works under Linux and Solaris (though it uses echo -n which
means no newline on Linux and apparently nothing under Solaris). It
writes a Makefile which will run the appropriate distutils functions.
Now unix users can run

./configure
make
make install

without realizing that distutils and python are running under the hood.

The script is available from my rarely used blog at
http://miyu.idolstarastronomer.com:8080/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/devries/blosxom.cgi/2004/11/22#pyconfig

Parts of the configure file where copied from an autoconf generated
configure file. The section that checks for a program in the PATH and
handles arguments and help are directly copied from a configure script.
Please let me know if you think this script is useful and I will be
happy to accept any edits anyone might have.

Chris



From use at reply.to  Mon Nov  1 13:29:29 2004
From: use at reply.to (Beretta Vexée)
Date: 01 Nov 2004 18:29:29 GMT
Subject: question de bonne doc
References: <418505b9$0$3662$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<1gmkhbc.yxlo8f10l5uq5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4186179a$0$31207$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<1gmkp2e.o08a66kodcjxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9594C6B24743Busereplyto@194.158.96.17>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) ecrivait dans
news:1gmkp2e.o08a66kodcjxN%aleaxit at yahoo.com: 


> Ah, je vois, merci.  Oui, la s?rie O'Reilly "en Concentr?", m?me que
> la s?rie "in a Nutshell" en Anglais, c'est plus pour reference, avec
> peux d'examples de code.  Le "Cookbook" c'est l'envers, mais je ne
> croix pas qu'il ait ?t? traduit, malheuresement.

Chez le m?me editeur il y a aussi "Apprendre a programmer avec Python" qui 
s'addresse plus aux debutant en programations qui a juste ce qu'il faut 
d'exemple et "Python pr?cis & concis" qui sert vraiment de m?mo de 
commandes et des fonctions classique.

> Essayez alors http://fr.diveintopython.org/index.html, "Plongez au
> coeur de Python", peut-?tre vous le trouverez satisfaisant.

Perso je trouve toujours la doc papier plus pratique et plus agreable.

-- 
Les fautes d'orthographes sus-cit?es sont d?pos?es aupr?s de leurs 
propri?taires respectifs. Aucune responsabilit? n'est engag? sur
la lisibilit? du message ou les ?ventuelles dommages qu'il peut 
engendrer. Beretta Vex?e [utilisez l'addresse Reply-to, SVP]


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Tue Nov 30 04:40:03 2004
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 01:40:03 -0800
Subject: Few things
References: <5c882bb5.0411251641.6177ee9d@posting.google.com>
	<41a756c6$0$25782$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <5c882bb5.0411300140.6ebd9d17@posting.google.com>

Thank you for the comments and answers, and sorry for my answering
delay...

Josiah Carlson:

>Decorators can do this without additional syntax. Think @accepts and
@returns.<

The purpose of those pre-post is to write something simile and very
*clean* that states what inputs and outputs must be. This is an
example of a pre-post conditional for a sorting function taken from
that site (all this is inside the docstring of the function):

pre:
    # must be a list
    isinstance(a, list)

    # all elements must be comparable with all other items
    forall(range(len(a)),
           lambda i: forall(range(len(a)),
                            lambda j: (a[i] < a[j]) ^ (a[i] >= a[j])))

post[a]:
    # length of array is unchanged
    len(a) == len(__old__.a)

    # all elements given are still in the array
    forall(__old__.a, lambda e: __old__.a.count(e) == a.count(e))

    # the array is sorted
    forall([a[i] >= a[i-1] for i in range(1, len(a))])


Surely such things can be passed (at least as strings) to the @accepts
and @returns decorators (using a "decorate" identifier instead of @ is
probably nicer, because the @ makes Python look more like Perl, but
I've seen that lots of people have already discussed such topic). Such
testing performed by such decorators can be "switched off" with a
global boolean flag when the program is debugged and tested.
So now someone can write and let standardise a couple of good @accepts
and @returns decorators/functors :-]


>Having a 'faq' for permutation and combination generation would be
99% of the way there.<

Uh, I'm sorry, but I don't understand :-]
Aren't such functions quite well defined?


>[Fixed] Quickselect, really, doesn't gain you a whole lot. Sure, it's
a log factor faster to select a median, but many algorithms involving
selecting medians (at least the ones that I run into in CS theory) end
up repeatedly (logn times) selecting the 'kth' smallest element
(varying k's), where sorting would actually run slightly faster.<

I've done some tests with a Quickselect that I have essentially
translated and adapted to pure Python from "Numerical Recipes" (it
seems a bit faster than the Quickselect coded by Raymond Hettinger
that can be seen in the cookbook). I have seen that on my PC, on
random sequence of FP numbers, a *single* Quickselect (to find just
the median) is faster than the standard sort for lists longer than
about 3 million elements. So it's often useless.
But using Psyco, that Quickselect becomes 5-6 times faster (for long
lists), so it beats the (good) standard Sort for lists longer than
600-3000 elements. If the Quickselect works in place (as the sort)
then it returns a partially ordered list, and you can use it to
quickly select other positions (so for close positions, like the
computing of the two central values for the median, the complexity of
the second select is nearly a constant time).
So coding the Quickselect in C/Pyrex can probably make it useful.
If you are interested I can give the Python Quickselect code, etc.


>Raymond Hettinger<

I have already seen that this person is working a lot on Python, often
in the algorithmic parts.


Nick Coghlan>I believe the OP was objecting to the spelling of "this
integer literal is hex" and "this integer literal is octal".<

Right.


Josiah Carlson>Regardless, I also don't believe the "I don't like
this" without "this is the way it should be" will result in anything.<

You are right, I was mostly afraid of saying silly things... Here is:
Such syntax can be like:
number<Separator><Base>

(Putting <Base><Separator> at the beginning of the number is probably
worse and it goes against normal base representation in mathematics,
where you often subscript the base number).

<Separator> cannot be "B" or "b" (that stands for "base") because
number can be a Hex containing B too... So <Separator> can be "_"
(this is the Subscript in TeX markup, so this agrees with normal
representation of the base)

<Base> can be:
1)just an integer number representing the base (similar to the second
parameter of "int", this also allows to specify any base).
2) a symbol to represent a smaller class of possibilities, like 0=2,
1=8, 2=10, 3=16, 4=64. Instead
of such digits a letter can be used: a=2, b=8, c=10, etc.
I think the first option is better.

So integer numbers can be written like:
1010100111011_2
154545_10
777_8
afa35a_16
Fi3pK_64


Thank you to Carlos Ribeiro for your development of such doc string
ideas, I appreciate them :-]

Bear hugs,
Bearophile


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Mon Nov  1 11:35:32 2004
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile)
Date: 1 Nov 2004 08:35:32 -0800
Subject: Few questions
Message-ID: <5c882bb5.0411010835.5a409600@posting.google.com>

Hello, I have few more things to say/ask (left from a discussion in
another Python Newsgroup).

Is it possibile (and useful) to write few small sub-sections of the
Python interpreter in Assembly for Pentium (III/IV)/AMD, to speed up
the interpreter for Win/Linux boxes running on those CPUs? (Such parts
don't replace the C versions, kept for compatibilty).
I think the HLA (High Level Assembly) language can be fit for this
purpose, it's a cute language:
http://webster.cs.ucr.edu/AsmTools/HLA/index.html

--------

I've done a little comparison of the speed of Python lists and arrays:

# speed_test.py
from time import clock
import sys

def array_test():
    from array import array
    v = array("l", [0] * n)
    t = clock()
    for i in xrange(len(v)):
        v[i] = i
    print "Timing:", round(clock()-t,3), "s"

def list_test():
    v = [0] * n
    t = clock()
    for i in xrange(len(v)):
        v[i] = i
    print "Timing:", round(clock()-t,3), "s"

n= 3*10**6
if str(sys.argv[1]) == "1":
    print "List test, n =", str(n) + ":"
    list_test()
else:
    print "Array test, n =", str(n) + ":"
    array_test()


On a old Win2K PC it gives:
C:\py>speed_test 1
List test, n = 3000000:
Timing: 2.804 s

C:\py>speed_test 2
Array test, n = 3000000:
Timing: 3.521 s


Python lists are arrays of pointers to objects, I think (a test shows
that here they use about 16 bytes for every number).
And the Python Arrays are packed: every number here uses 4 bytes.
Why do lists are faster here?

------

Memory cleaning: in the last script I've added some calls to a Win
version of the small "pslist" program, and I've put a "del v" command
after the timings. And I've seen:

C:\py>speed_test 1
List test, n = 3000000:
1) Process size: 1408 KB.
2) Process size: 48928 KB.
3) Process size: 37204 KB.

C:\py>speed_test 2
Array test, n = 3000000:
1) Process size: 1416 KB.
2) Process size: 13152 KB.
3) Process size: 1416 KB.

1 is at the start of the script before v creation, 2 is after its
inizialization loop, and 3 is after the "del v" command, like this:

used_mem(1)
from array import array
v = array("l", [0] * n)
for i in xrange(len(v)):
		v[i] = i
used_mem(2)
del v
used_mem(3)

The garbage collector removes at once the array (this is easy, it's
just a lump of memory with little extra things), but the memory used
by the list isn't free even a little time later. (I think that to
understand how/when such such garbage collector works, I have to read
the Python C sources...)

Thank you,
bearophile


From rtilley at vt.edu  Fri Nov  5 21:40:04 2004
From: rtilley at vt.edu (Brad Tilley)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 21:40:04 -0500
Subject: Python for Reverse Engineering
Message-ID: <cmhdi4$7vi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

A friend of mine wrote an algorithm that generates strings. He says that 
it's impossible to figure out exactly how the algorithm works. That may 
be true, but I think if I had enough sample strings that I could write a 
program to identify patterns in the strings and then produce strings 
with similar patterns. He disagrees with me. He gave me 100 strings to 
analyze.

I wrote a script to read each string and build a list of characters 
present. I've discovered that he only uses 20 alpha/numeric chars to 
generate the strings and that each string sums up to a value between 
1000 and 1200 when I assign each char in the string its ASCII value.

What else might I do to analyze these things? As it stands now, I can 
generate an acceptable string on ever 100th attempt or so, but I'd like 
to do better than this.

-b



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 15 17:03:36 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 15:03:36 -0700
Subject: determining the number of output arguments
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6361.1100470915.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cn95k1$bfq$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6371.1100498345.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnb7hi.1hwbltbftm6c1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cnb93o$rn3$1@sea.gmane.org>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Fernando Perez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> suspect that by playing very nasty tricks with sys._getframe(), the dis
>> and the inspect modules, you probably _could_ get to this information, at
>> least if the caller is NOT a C extension module.  But I'm not even 100%
>> sure this works, and it would most certainly the kind of black magic I'm
>> sure you are not asking about.  But given the level of expertise here, I
>> better cover my ass ;-)
> 
> Yep, that's the cookbook recipe Jp was mentioning -- Sami Hangaslammi's
> recipe 284742, to be precise.  Yep, it _is_ going into the printed 2nd
> edition (which I'm supposed to be working on right now -- deadline
> closing in, help, help!-).

Well, I feel pretty good now: I didn't see Jp's mention of this, and just
guessed it should be doable with those three tools.  I just looked it up, and
it seems it's exactly what I had in mind :)  Cute hack, but I tend to agree
with Scott Daniels' comment that this kind of cleverness tends to promote
rather unreadable code.  Maybe I just haven't seen a good use for it, but I
think I'd rather stick with more explicit mechanisms than this.

Anyway, is it true that this will only work for non-extension code?  If you are
being called from a C extension, dis & friends are toast, no?

Cheers,

f



From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Nov 10 03:44:00 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:44:00 GMT
Subject: unicode string literals and "u" prefix
In-Reply-To: <4191c722$0$158$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <ac3d3965.0411080600.3a5bce8d@posting.google.com>
	<418fed14$0$156$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<ac3d3965.0411090741.78c9dce4@posting.google.com>
	<4191c722$0$158$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <kxkkd.10213$O11.6559@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> If you really need a way of declaring all string literals as Unicode,
> on a per-module basis, then
> 
> from __future__ import string_literals_are_unicode

Were it to be done, would that also introduce new syntax for
generating a byte string?

Perhaps b"" as in

  s = b"\N{LATIN"

?
				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From riko.wichmann at remove-this.desy.de  Tue Nov 30 05:49:14 2004
From: riko.wichmann at remove-this.desy.de (Riko Wichmann)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:49:14 +0100
Subject: comment out more than 1 line at once?
In-Reply-To: <cohidt$f81$1@online.de>
References: <cohc71$2pqli$1@claire.desy.de>
	<mailman.6908.1101807392.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cohg3q$2q1b5$1@claire.desy.de> <cohidt$f81$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <cohj8b$2qnl2$1@claire.desy.de>

Ha! have just discover C-c # myself (sometimes it helps to actually look 
at the emacs menus, even if you are used to using the key-bindings :)

Better yet works "Meta-;" as Bernhard suggested, because it comments and 
un-comments marked line!

Thanks for all the helpful tips!

	- Riko


> 
> Riko,
> 
> if you are using emacs, try C-c # to comment out a block of code.
> Unfortunally Uncomment is not bound to a key by default.
> Do a key-binding for it by yourself.
> 
> Uwe


From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 12 08:59:34 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:59:34 -0500
Subject: Accessing an instance via its memory address (instance at ...)
In-Reply-To: <cn2fkq$k6u$2@ikaria.belnet.be>
References: <cn2fkq$k6u$2@ikaria.belnet.be>
Message-ID: <4194c25e$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>

simon.alexandre at cetic.be wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I have a list containing several instance address, for example:
> 
> [<JavaClass instance at 00BAC290>, <JavaClass instance at 00BB0D10>,
> <JavaClass instance at 00BA5230>]
> 
> I'd like to invoke a method on each of these instance but I don't know :
> 
> 1. if its possible
Certainly

> 2. how to proceed

lst = ... # your list
# Call method() for each instance in l
for instance in lst:
     instance.method()

# Call method() for a particular instance in lst
lst[0].method()

Kent


From fake at example.com  Sat Nov 27 22:32:51 2004
From: fake at example.com (charliek)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 21:32:51 -0600
Subject: mod_python 2.7.10 - publisher
References: <41a8fb2d$0$85022$a1866201@visi.com>
Message-ID: <41a9471a$0$85026$a1866201@visi.com>


> I was wondering if there was a default function in mod_python 2.7.10.
> 
> If not, is there any reasons why I should not add one?  Other than the
> fact that the current implementation is well tested.
> 

I looked at the source code for the publisher handler and it looks like the
2.7.x version of mod_python does not default to anything.  I just added a
couple of lines to make it default to the index function.

Got to love open source!

Thanks,

Charlie



From urner at alumni.princeton.edu  Thu Nov  4 18:03:56 2004
From: urner at alumni.princeton.edu (Kirby Urner)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 15:03:56 -0800
Subject: MySQL blobs confusion
Message-ID: <3mclo05un9qh2ojufh02ic8me6o7c2mh11@4ax.com>


I've been testing the Cookbook example 8.6 (2002 edition) re using cPickle to
insert and retrieve BLOBs from mySQL, using Python's MySQLdb module.

When I try to cPickle.loads(blob), I get an error telling me that loads wants a
string, not type array.array.  So I go cPickle.loads(blob.tostring()) instead
and it works.

My question is:  has something changed in the Python API since this example was
written?

Here's my version of the code (change commented):

import MySQLdb, cPickle

def cookbook():
    connection = MySQLdb.connect('','root','xxxx','test')
    cursor = connection.cursor()
    
    cursor.execute("CREATE TABLE justatest (name TEXT, ablob BLOB)")

    try:
        # Prepare some BLOBs to insert in the table
        names = 'aramis', 'athos', 'porthos'
        data = {}
        for name in names:
            datum = list(name)
            datum.sort()
            data[name] = cPickle.dumps(datum, 1)

        # Perform the insertions
        sql = "INSERT INTO justatest VALUES (%s, %s)"
        for name in names:
            cursor.execute(sql, (name, MySQLdb.escape_string(data[name])) )

        # Recover the data so you can check back
        sql = "SELECT name, ablob FROM justatest ORDER BY name"
        cursor.execute(sql)
        for name, blob in cursor.fetchall():
            print name, cPickle.loads(data[name]), \
                        cPickle.loads(blob.tostring())  # note conversion
            
    finally:
        # Done, Remove the table and close the connection
        cursor.execute("DROP TABLE justatest")
        connection.close()

if __name__ == '__main__':
   cookbook()

Kirby



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 29 17:14:42 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 22:14:42 GMT
Subject: unicode question
References: <qkLnd.22919$jf.19362@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<419fc9b9$0$198$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<419ff7cd_3@newspeer2.tds.net> <41A061E1.8050203@v.loewis.de>
	<KH_nd.23139$jf.19287@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<41a0ab62$0$151$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<Y3hod.23808$jf.11140@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<41a1d80d.718896828@news.oz.net>
	<41a27514$0$179$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<41a28c3d.765024687@news.oz.net> <41A33A7D.7090506@holdenweb.com>
	<41a39160$0$192$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <41ab8637.1353306531@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:37:04 +0100, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?= <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:

>Steve Holden wrote:
>> Am I the only person who found it scary that Bengt could apparently 
>> casually drop on a polynomial the would decode to " L?wis"?
Well, don't give me too much credit, though I admit enjoying a little unearned
flattered-ego buzz ;-) But it's not a big deal if you had recently implemented
an automatic lambda-printer-outer to solve for a polynomial function f such that
f(0)==k0, f(1)==k1, .. f(n)==kn. For a single number k0 that will be lambda x: k0
and for two numbers k0, k1 will be lambda x: k0 + x*(k1-k0) etc. It's a matter of
solving some simultaneous equations for the coefficient values, which I had done
in response to a previous thread. For that, I happened to have had some experience
from the '60s writing variations on an equation solver (back when we congratulated
ourselves on getting all (software-implemented) floating point ops other than divide
to execute in under a millisecond ;-) Here I was using an exact decimal module I happened
to have (also built in response to previous thread discussion ;-), so I didn't even have
to look for maximum abs pivot elements in the matrix for this one. And it didn't have to be fast.
So it was kind of a fun exercise. But anyway, it was all ready to go at this point, so
all I had to was do was run coeffsx.py with the character ord values as args on the command line.
The opportunity to use it in a fun way to fake casual wizardry was just dumb luck ;-)

>
>I'm not scared, but honored, of course.
>
A bit late responding, but I couldn't think of a clever followup to that ;-)
But Just to play fair,

print ''.join([chr((lambda x: (
    -6244372133*x**31 +3013910052086*x**30 -695396351572920*x**29
    +102105752307741620*x**28 -10715303804974659632*x**27 +855734314951919397204*x**26
    -54067713339116101354860*x**25 +2774121296568607137441900*x**24
    -117725625258165396333623970*x**23 +4187405270602160539007125440*x**22
    -126060225187601954901807327900*x**21 +3234908736910295469078183101700*x**20
    -71121878980966418114205095297640*x**19 +1344268902923717571167117226451980*x**18
    -21886601404074660751245403749948900*x**17 +307180698948793841846368910776059300*x**16
    -3714719218772170154406066269371644945*x**15 +38641327091060849304069885597725238090*x**14
    -344757809926306996671359721670334393500*x**13 +2627069115710241704477921121071756668600*x**12
    -16998869426095431823754237370045113150352*x**11 +92697362475995606001274610327169882407584*x**10
    -421837211162827653880286870838716820642880*x**9 +1581695033356657201434736494281105646218880*x**8
    -4805817748883837636614530805204695373091328*x**7 +11572394080794032785251889126742747327087616*x**6
    -21417820944419013080374525134500006003159040*x**5 +29141767437911436346798089144038222112768000*x**4
    -27186086428826094346108431447644781404160000*x**3 +15339943556592952236643053124047771402240000*x**2
    -3882253738078295379102517100266822041600000*x +230239482316981838896315760640000000)
    /2740946218059307605908520960000000
    )(x)) for x in xrange(32)])

Not-ready-to-be-mythologized-though-plenty-flatterable-ly y'rs

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From rstephens at vectron.com  Sat Nov 20 15:16:23 2004
From: rstephens at vectron.com (Ron Stephens)
Date: 20 Nov 2004 12:16:23 -0800
Subject: Python Tutorials, about 100 and sorted by Topic or Category
Message-ID: <a5415304.0411201216.7cbfdddd@posting.google.com>

I have updated my Python Tutorials page with quite a few new ones, and
eliminated a few dead links. More importantly, I have now created a
clickable menu sorting them by topic and category, as below:

Table of Contents
New Tutorials (13)
For Beginners (11)
General and Advanced (13)
GUI Programming (21)
HTML and XML (7)
CGI and Server-Side Programming (4)
Windows (4)
Database (5)
Math, Science, Physics and Bioinformatics (7)
Mac (4)
Advanced Specific Topics including Idle, Sorting, Unicode, Threads,
NumPy, RE, Sockets, Curses, and Boost C ++ (16)
Reference (7)

I am always interested in finding even more quality tutorials to add
this page.

<a href = "http://www.awaretek.com/tutorials.html>Python Tutorials
Page</a>

Ron Stephens


From JSmuts at clover.co.za  Wed Nov 24 10:29:01 2004
From: JSmuts at clover.co.za (Jaco Smuts)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:29:01 +0200
Subject: iseries python
Message-ID: <OF1FA372CB.E4BF10D0-ON42256F56.0054E1D2-42256F56.00550DE9@clover.co.za>

Hello there

a friend installed python on our dev iseries machine at work today. 

I would like to play around, but I don't know how to compile 3'rd party 
modules (specifically pymqi) on the as400. 

any thoughts, instructions, links would be appreciated.

thanks
jaco


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From len-1 at telus.net  Thu Nov 25 12:38:19 2004
From: len-1 at telus.net (Lenard Lindstrom)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 17:38:19 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.23.07.09.08.229463@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<zn18e7pm.fsf@telus.net> <wzr7mi9izg.fsf@ordesa.local>
Message-ID: <7jo9q193.fsf@telus.net>

Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl> writes:

> >>>>> Lenard Lindstrom <len-1 at telus.net> (LL) wrote:
> 
> 
> LL> I would hope that a rewrite of Claim-2 of the patent is required before
> LL> the patent is accept (if it is not outright rejected). Claim-2 is too
> LL> vague to be meaningful. Proper definitions of "BASIC" and "derived" are
> LL> missing. I imaging the patent is intended to protect Visual Basic.NET
> LL> rather than restrict unrelated languages like Delphi and Python
> LL> anyways.
> 
> If it would be applied to Python there would be enough prior art anyway.

It is not whether or not Python has prior art but rather what the cost
would be to defend a patent infringement lawsuit. But honestly, I believe
that is a remote possibility.

> And they forgot to put the word 'invention' between quotes.
> How stupid can they become?

I do not know what the proper form of a US patent application should be.
But on my first read of this claim I did find a typo in part 12 of the
FIELD OF THE INVENTION section. So this application was not carefully
proofread. It needs at least one revision.

Besides, many other assertions are plainly wrong. The constructs in parts
3-5 of the above section are not Basic. They are Microsoft's own additions
to the language. And to the claim Basic hid pointer arithmetic (part-2)
remember PEEK and POKE.

No, the scope of this patent will have to be narrowed to VISUAL BASIC-derived
languages, which is a very narrow scope indeed.

Lenard Lindstrom
<len-l at telus.net>


From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Sun Nov  7 08:56:23 2004
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 13:56:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ANN: Updated beginner's tutorial
References: <kf6so0p7jrsmu24uvfsgrlg3rf6diul6es@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <aaaso0tjg8vprnj4dk28vqab9qgft170nf@4ax.com>

On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 12:53:05 +0000 (UTC), Alan Gauld 
> Enjoy, and as ever send that feedback to me.
> 
> Alan G.
> http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/
> 
> Author of the Learn to Program website
> http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/tutor2

Oops! I forgot to change the .sig! The top one is the correct url
for the new tutor. The bottom one is now defunct and was the
draft version...

Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Nov  4 18:08:57 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 00:08:57 +0100
Subject: CGIs and file exclusion
References: <2uvedvF2g1pv3U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cmecq2$ksm$00$1@news.t-online.com>

I'd suggest using ZODB instead of directly pickling - then every cgi can
open the database with its own connection. ZODB will manage concurrency
issues.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Nov 11 13:38:07 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:38:07 -0500
Subject: Questions pending - please help
References: <200411111110.00909.philippecmartin@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <cn0bi5$frr$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Philippe C. Martin" <philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 
news:200411111110.00909.philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net...
> 2) Is there a rule of thumb to follow when writing a c extention which 
> will
> ensure backward compatibility with earlier python versions:

The C API changes slowly but it does change.  So don't use API functions 
which have been added or which have changed since the earliest version you 
want to support.  For future compatibility, don't use functions which are 
deprecated (or which will be ;-).  I think changes are documented for each 
version, but I do not know of any master summary.  If there is not one, an 
info PEP (or web site page) on C API changes would probably be accepted 
should someone write and submit one.

Terry J. Reedy





From marc at zeroc.com  Wed Nov 24 08:59:58 2004
From: marc at zeroc.com (Marc Laukien)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:59:58 -0500
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Ice 2.0 released
In-Reply-To: <du7y8grqs75.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
References: <ketod.45140$K7.3294@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<ted8q0h19c4disktejd9ur7pdgec0h1hl0@4ax.com>
	<s7SdnfFRp_kLGjncRVn-1A@speakeasy.net>
	<du7y8grqs75.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <lPmdnVVWnN9nDjncRVn-gA@speakeasy.net>

Ville Vainio wrote:

>>>>>>"Marc" == Marc Laukien <marc at zeroc.com> writes:
> 
> 
>     Marc> Ice is free software, available with full source, and
>     Marc> released under the terms of the GNU General Public License
>     Marc> (GPL). Commercial licenses are available for customers who
>     Marc> wish to use Ice for closed-source software."
> 
> So, unlike with currently available Python CORBA implementations (and
> implementations for other languages as well), you can't use ICE in a
> closed source system without paying a fee. Just wanted to point this
> out so that nobody got the wrong idea. This *is* a big deal with
> middleware / library that would quite probably be adopted in
> commercial systems where the managers will feel uneasy about giving up
> the control of their "precious" source.

That is correct. I thought what I wrote about licensing above was 
already clear enough, but if you have the need to clarify it even 
further, that's of course fine :)


From mefjr75 at hotmail.com  Sun Nov  7 12:31:10 2004
From: mefjr75 at hotmail.com (M.E.Farmer)
Date: 7 Nov 2004 09:31:10 -0800
Subject: Color schemes
References: <41838c6e$0$7153$d5255a0c@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<18282ecb.0410301418.1ee469f5@posting.google.com>
	<418c2006$0$34293$cd19a363@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<18282ecb.0411061242.7deceef3@posting.google.com>
	<Xzcjd.21247$K7.19576@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <18282ecb.0411070931.34508476@posting.google.com>

"Neil Hodgson" <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> wrote in message 

>     There is a bit of inheritance here: many environments that use Scintilla
> start with the default colour scheme used by SciTE which was based on
> PythonWin, and I think that PythonWin got the basics (blue keywords and
> green comments) from Visual C++.

Isn't PythonWin now based on Scintilla too? Circular refrences ;)

>    It is not just the waste of ink. Most printers are very poor at printing
> black or dark backgrounds, with ink bleeding into characters or light
> streaks and other marks on laser printers.
> 
>    Neil

Good point, the one time I did print light on dark it looked horrible...streaks.
While I am at it i want to THANK YOU for your work. I benefit from it every day.
Scintilla is awesome, and so are you, thanks Neil!
 M.E.Farmer


From mauriceling at acm.org  Fri Nov  5 00:58:09 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 05:58:09 GMT
Subject: why python is slower than java?
Message-ID: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>

This may be a dumb thing to ask, but besides the penalty for dynamic 
typing, is there any other real reasons that Python is slower than Java?

maurice


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 16 02:14:16 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:14:16 +0100
Subject: int literals and __class__
References: <4197c013$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<ad052e5c.0411150401.2b215499@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6407.1100587895.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gnc423.db0wo1mts12dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dan Bishop <danb_83 <at> yahoo.com> writes:
> > You don't have to ask *that* nicely.
> > 
> > >>> 1 .__class__  # notice the space
> > <type 'int'>
> 
> Why does this work?  Or, perhaps my real question is why *doesn't* it work
> without the space?  Pointers to the appropriate point in the docs would be
> fine...  I assume it's something about making parsing easier...?

It's to make lexing more predictable: it's known as maximal-much lexing
(without backtracking: backtracking in lexical analysis would really but
really be bad).  '1.' (no space) is a token (stands for a float
literal).  So, '1.__class__' is two tokens: float '1.' followed by
identified '__class__'.


Alex


From ville at spammers.com  Wed Nov  3 12:28:37 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 03 Nov 2004 19:28:37 +0200
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
	<du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<b16e4ef7.0411030645.216873d3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <du73bzqhmey.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Steve" == Stephen Ferg <steve at ferg.org> writes:

    >> Hell, people rarely even mention Perl these days 

    Steve> -----------------------------------------
    Steve> location           number of hits for
    Steve> Python    Perl
    Steve> -----------------------------------------

    Steve> Monster.com             18     552

... etc.

This does not take away the fact that a few years ago, it was felt
that Python is in a bloody fight over popularity with Perl. It was
felt that Perl still had this or that over Python; this doesn't seem
to be the case anymore. Python is no longer the obscure up-and-coming
scripting language. It is used in several high-profile places, while
Perl usage seems to be mostly going down in popularity. In the Open
Source world, Python aleady seems to have a higher profile than
Perl. The popularity of Python is already big enough to not be an
impediment for the company to switch over - it may be that there is
still a need to switch over in the first place, but that's just a
refreshing challenge ;-). Hence, I wouldn't be too worried about
competing with Perl.

Decision to use a library requires some thinking already, it's not a
big additional hurdle to download it from SF/whatever and add it to
the company version control system. I wouldn't mind a CPANish system,
but the lack of it isn't the bottleneck in Python adoption.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From danperl at rogers.com  Fri Nov 26 00:33:06 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 00:33:06 -0500
Subject: Subclassing complex with computed arguments
References: <a86143fb.0411251430.50665acf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <99CdncSdrOaJXTvcRVn-og@rogers.com>

I need a clarification.  Does "sample" have to be an instance of complex or 
can it be a subclass of complex?  So can it be an instance of point as long 
as point is a subclass of complex?

If "sample" has to be an instance of complex and not of a subclass, I think 
you need to subclass point from complex and override the __new__() method to 
return an instance of complex and override __init__() to use all your 
arglist.  In that case you also need yet another method to actually create 
instances of point.

If "sample" can be an instance of a subclass of complex, I think you can 
just subclass point from complex and override only __init__().

There is more in the details I guess, but I would like to first see an 
answer to the above questions.

Dan

"Peter Olsen" <pcolsen at comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:a86143fb.0411251430.50665acf at posting.google.com...
>I want to define a class "point" as a subclass of complex.
>
> When I create an instance
>
> sample = point(<arglist>)
>
> I want "sample" to "be" a complex number, but with its real and
> imaginary parts computed in point()'s __init__ function with their
> values based on the arglist.  I want to compute with point instances
> as though they were native complex numbers, but I want to be able to
> define some new methods and over-ride some of complex's existing ones.
>
> This is probably very simple, but it hasn't been simple to me.
>
> Please feel free to flame me with RTFM as long as you also tell me
> where in TFM to R.
>
> If you respond, please send a copy directly to me.  I seldom have
> access to this group.  (My primary network isn't connected to the
> internet.)
>
> Peter
> pcolsen-at-comcast.net 




From tony.ha at philips.com  Mon Nov 29 05:15:35 2004
From: tony.ha at philips.com (Tony Ha)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:15:35 GMT
Subject: Python Design Patterns
Message-ID: <Xns95B0685EABF53Help..recipe.4.9.in.@130.139.56.200>

Hello

I am learning Python for in the pass ten months, and have brought a few 
books about Python. Most of them are good books by its only right, and all 
of them only teach you how to write Python programs using Python syntax and 
Python ways, but no one single Python book explicitly teaches you on how to 
analyst your application, and structure your programmes in a way, so that, 
it is easy to maintain, easily to reuse, (i.e. use loosely couple), and 
easily to extend or add new features (programming to Interface instead of 
Implementation) without introduce bugs into your existing working codes.

I recently brought a book called "Head First Design Patterns" published by 
O'reilly. This book is simply a gem. It shows you how to use and apply 
Design Patterns to analyst and structure your code, so that, the programs 
can be easy maintains, reuse, modify and extend. (It is the books I have 
been looking for a long time while I am learning Python, but cannot find 
one). The only caveat about this book is that the authors use Java (not 
Python) in the examples.

I wonder, can any Python guru out there translate the Java examples in the 
book into Python examples, or write a similar book in Python, perhaps 
called "Head First Design Patterns in Python". I think, this will be a 
great addition to Python books, and a great benefit to Python community.

P.S. I am not sure is this the right news group to post this request.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Nov 23 14:35:21 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:35:21 +0100
Subject: unicode question
In-Reply-To: <41a28c3d.765024687@news.oz.net>
References: <qkLnd.22919$jf.19362@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<419fc9b9$0$198$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<419ff7cd_3@newspeer2.tds.net> <41A061E1.8050203@v.loewis.de>
	<KH_nd.23139$jf.19287@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<41a0ab62$0$151$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<Y3hod.23808$jf.11140@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<41a1d80d.718896828@news.oz.net>
	<41a27514$0$179$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<41a28c3d.765024687@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <41a390fa$0$192$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Bengt Richter wrote:
>>Because print invokes str() on its argument, unless the argument is
>>already a byte string (in which case it prints it directly), or a
> 
>                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^-- effectively an assumption that
> bytestring.decode('some_unknown_encoding').encode(sys.stdout.encoding)
> has already been done, it seems (I'm not arguing against).

Not really. sys.stdout really is a byte string, which may or may
not *have* an encoding. Python tries to guess, and refuses to
in the face of ambiguity: e.g. if sys.stdout is a file, resulting
from

python mkimage.py > image.gif

then sys.stdout really does not *have* an encoding - but it still
is a byte stream. So copying the bytes to stdout is a
straight-forward thing to do.

Of course, "print" should only be used if the stream is meant to
transmit characters, and then the bytes written to the stream should
use the stream's encoding. This is indeed the assumption - but one
that the application author needs to make.

> So how about changing print so that it doesn't blindly use str(y)

On the C level, this is already possible, through tp_print. Whether or
not this should be exposed to the Python level (or whether doing so
would just add to the confusion), I don't know.

 > but instead
 > first tries to get y.__str__() in case the latter returns unicode?
 > Then print y can succeed the way print y.__str__() does now.

As yet another alternative, print could invoke unicode(), if
there is a stream encoding. This would try __unicode__first,
then fall back to call __str__. Patches in this direction would
be welcome - but the code implementing print is already quite
involved, so a redesign (with a PEP and everything) might also
be in order.

In P3k, this part of the issue will go away, as str() then will
return Unicode strings.

> I.e., str doesn't know that printing and '%s' can use unicode to good effect
> if it available, so for print and str.__mod__ blindly to use str() intermediately
> throws away an opportunity to do better ISTM.

That is true. Of course, there is already so much backwards
compatibility in this that any change to behaviour (such as
trying unicode() before trying str()) might break things.

Regards,
Martin


From syd.diamond at gmail.com  Wed Nov  3 11:00:15 2004
From: syd.diamond at gmail.com (syd)
Date: 3 Nov 2004 08:00:15 -0800
Subject: general class functions
References: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>
	<kj9eo0hkjem9pbj3pvdbpea6gpl06ighsj@4ax.com>
	<a76ba315.0411021009.46b06459@posting.google.com>
	<4187d1b6$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <a76ba315.0411030800.7bb20f45@posting.google.com>

> Instead of
>    return self.__dict__[name]
> you need
>    raise AttributeError, name

Booyah, Kent!  This works.  For posterity, I'll dump a working code:

#!/usr/bin/python
class Library(object):
  def __init__(self,list=None):
    self.list=list
  def __getattr__(self,name):
    if name.startswith("get_"):
      attrname = name[4:]
      def filter(value):
        library=Library()
        for nation in self.list:
          if getattr(nation,attrname) == value:
            library.add(nation)
        return library
      return filter
    else:
      raise AttributeError,name
  def add(self,nation):
    try: self.list.append(nation)
    except: self.list=[nation]
  def defineNation(self,name,continent,size):
    nation=Library.Nation()
    nation.name=name
    nation.continent=continent
    nation.size=size
    self.add(nation)
  def getNameList(self):
    outList=[]
    for nation in self.list:
      outList.append(nation.name)
    return outList
  class Nation(object):
    def __init__(self,name=None,continent=None,size=None):
      self.name=name # eg, Spain
      self.continent=continent # eg, Europe
      self.size=size # eg, medium

library=Library()
library.defineNation('Spain','Europe','medium')
library.defineNation('USA','NorthAmerica','large')
library.defineNation('Luxembourg','Europe','small')
library.defineNation('Portugal','Europe','medium')

print library.getNameList()
print library.get_continent('Europe').getNameList()


From dave at didnt.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Nov  5 03:38:21 2004
From: dave at didnt.freeserve.co.uk (Dave Sellars)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 08:38:21 +0000
Subject: py2exe sf.net hosed???
Message-ID: <418b3bf9$0$17580$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

I cannot download py2exe from the sourceforge site, the download page 
just keeps refreshing but the d/l never starts...

http://sourceforge.net/project/py2exe then choose 'Files' --tried with 
firefox and IE (on windows), no cigar...

Anyone else having the same problem, or am I doing something *really* 
dumb? ;-)


From eparker at mail.kickingdragon.com  Thu Nov 11 20:44:50 2004
From: eparker at mail.kickingdragon.com (eparker at mail.kickingdragon.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:44:50 -0500
Subject: Multiple running parsers, different threads, embedded in C++..?
Message-ID: <124000-220041151214450865@M2W026.mail2web.com>

Hello!

I'm new to this list, so please be gentle. :)

I've been scouring the net for an answer to this, as well as trying to get
a little demo running, but to no avail, so I'm going to plead some help
from the court, about a multithreading C++, which embeds Python parsers..
Hopefully I'm dumb, and it's an easy answer. :)

So, here goes:

I'm trying to embed a Python parser into C++, and so far, it works
beautifully (I thought there could be nothing sexier then Python, and then
Boost.Python came along too. I could cry, I'm so happy). 

Now, I want to embed this into an application that is serving web pages
(required to be standalone server), however I keep reading about the GIL
and how Python is not reentrant. However, it's locking scenario sounds like
it try's to make the best of it, and it sounds like other applications make
their way around it just fine.. even mod_python (or is that forking,
happening?).

I'm curious if this restriction will have me wallowing in pain, as it might
severely slow down the server? Does anyone know if this will be a huge
issue? (I'm grasping at straws here: Python & Boost.Python does EVERYTHING
else I need/want. :))

I'm also trying to do a demo app, to test the speed, but I'm actually
having problem GETTING threading going.. Perhaps it's my lack of knowledge
with the system, but I was wondering if I could solicit some advice?

I'm getting errors like the following:

Fatal Python error: PyThreadState_Get: no current thread
Fatal Python error: PyThreadState_Get: no current thread

And as for what my code looks like (as of now, anyways: it's been through
more surgery then Michael Jackson, today), it's at the bottom of this
message.

Is there anything I'm doing horribly wrong? I don't claim to be an expert
on threading, but YOU could change this. :) 

Thanks so much.. Please don't break my heart and tell me I can't use
Python. :)

-e-


unsigned __stdcall ExecutePython(void *) 
{
    const char *kFileName = "TestFile.py";

    PyObject *pPyFileObject = PyFile_FromString(const_cast<char
*>(kFileName), "r");

    PyRun_SimpleFile(PyFile_AsFile(pPyFileObject), kFileName);

    Py_DECREF(pPyFileObject);

    return 0;
}   

int main(void)
{
   Py_Initialize();
   PyEval_InitThreads();

   const unsigned int kNumThreads = 2;

   HANDLE hThreads[kNumThreads];
   unsigned int threadIDs[kNumThreads];

   PyThreadState *tstate = PyEval_SaveThread();
   
   for(unsigned int i = 0;
       i < kNumThreads;
       ++i)
   {
        PyEval_RestoreThread(tstate);       
        hThreads[i] = (HANDLE)(_beginthreadex(NULL, 0, &ExecutePython,
NULL, 0, &threadIDs[i]));
        tstate = PyEval_SaveThread();
   }

   
   for(unsigned int i = 0;
       i < kNumThreads;
       ++i)
   {
       cout << "Waiting for thread #" << i << endl;
       WaitForSingleObject(hThreads[i], INFINITE );
       CloseHandle(hThreads[i]);
   }

   PyEval_RestoreThread(tstate);
   Py_Finalize();
   // Python interpreter has ended.

   return 0;
}

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .




From square690410 at yahoo.com.tw  Mon Nov 29 00:36:48 2004
From: square690410 at yahoo.com.tw (Leon)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:36:48 +0800
Subject: how to drop all thread ??
Message-ID: <coechh$amh$1@netnews.hinet.net>

if class A(
use threading,thread module
) to produce 100 thread,how to drop its (100 thread) when its running 




From roy at panix.com  Mon Nov  8 08:14:28 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 08:14:28 -0500
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au> <alGid.47522$HA.14125@attbi_s01>
	<cml9h2$q70$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<1gmw2us.eerwmfbnb899N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<roy-43B82D.13103807112004@reader1.panix.com>
	<87vfcgkd3e.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <roy-A7ADFB.08142808112004@reader1.panix.com>

In article <87vfcgkd3e.fsf at pop-server.bigpond.net.au>,
 Israel Raj T <rambam at bigpond.net.au> wrote:

> Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:
> 
> > mention that I know what the program drum is used for on an 029 card 
> > punch.  I am however typing this from my wireless PowerBook :-)
> 
> I hate to say this, but my kids have had 802.11g on their notebooks since
> the age of 12 ( ie : nearly 2 years now). 

That's OK.  I once went for a job interview that really made me feel 
antiquated.  The kid who was interviewing me looked at my resume, saw 
that I had started using Unix in 1977, and said, "Wow, you've been doing 
Unix longer than I've been alive!".

The key to avoiding becoming a dinosaur is to keep learning.  If you 
don't learn something major (a new language, operating system, etc) 
every year, it won't be too long before you start to sink into the tar 
pits.


From DesertLinux at netscape.net  Wed Nov 17 09:32:43 2004
From: DesertLinux at netscape.net (Byron)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:32:43 GMT
Subject: Newbie:  Python & ADFGVX Cipher Cracking?
Message-ID: <fiJmd.1238$Tq6.434@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Hello,

I am working on building a program that cracks "ADFGVX" ciphers. 
However, I have run into a minor problem, is has to do with figuring out 
the different potential character re-arrangement combinations.  See 
example below for clarification:

The characters "ABC" can be re-arranged in several different possible ways:

1) ABC
2) BAC
3) BCA
4) ACB
5) CAB
6) CBA

Is there a python function in which I can sent a string of characters to 
-- and it will provide me with a list of all possible combinations 
available?

example function call:   possCharList = allCombinations("ABC")

Any help SINCERELY appreciated!!

Byron
---


From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Nov 12 18:50:04 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 23:50:04 GMT
Subject: regular expressions and internationalization (WAS: permuting
 letters...)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6316.1100290534.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <67lld8kr76.fsf@aster.homelinux.net>	<34Skd.24295$KJ6.17501@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<4195217c$1@nntp0.pdx.net>	<mailman.6313.1100288445.5135.python-list@python.org>	<3B8ld.24947$KJ6.15770@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.6316.1100290534.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <M_bld.25062$KJ6.4032@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Steven Bethard wrote:
> I looked again at the re module, and it seems that \w and \W do have
> internationalization support... Is there any way to match \w but not \d?  Maybe
> something like:
>     r'[^\d\W]{4,}'
> 
> This seems to work (maybe?):

Yeah, I tried that originally but noticed that digits and '_'
are included, which ruined the idea of the scramble.  So I
opted with the OP's choice and hard-coded just the letters.

>>>>p = re.compile(r'[^\d\W]{4,}', re.UNICODE)

Nice way to do it.  I would also put '_' in that exclude list.

 > I don't know how to check how this works in different
 > locales though...

I think I don't understand locales well enough either.  It
looks like I need to use re.UNICODE more often.

 >>> import string
 >>> string.letters
'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ'
 >>> import re
 >>> pat = re.compile(r"[^\d^\W]{4,}", re.UNICODE)
 >>> GOT = u"G\N{LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH DIAERESIS}teborg"
 >>> print GOT.encode("utf8")
G?teborg
 >>> pat.search(GOT).group(0)
u'G\xf6teborg'
 >>> pat = re.compile(r"[^\d^\W]{4,}")
 >>> pat.search(GOT).group(0)
u'teborg'
 >>>
 >>> import locale
 >>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, "")
'C'
 >>>

So you can see that re.UNICODE uses the Unicode definition
of what is a letter despite the locale being C.

Therefore, I think your approach is better.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From drew at gremlinhosting.com  Sun Nov 28 09:06:30 2004
From: drew at gremlinhosting.com (Andrew James)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 14:06:30 +0000
Subject: Psycopg2 mirror availability
Message-ID: <1101650790.7679.3.camel@odin>

All,
I'd like to be able to use psycopg2's new features for my development
work with postgresql, but unfortunately the init.d site seems to be
broken and I can't get to the repository there.

Does anyone know:
a) Why init.d is down, and when it might be back up
b) Where I might be able to find a psycopg2 mirror, and
c) Whether there's a Gentoo ebuild available?

Any help would be much appreciated,

Regards,
Andrew


-- 
Andrew James <drew at gremlinhosting.com>



From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 10 11:10:08 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:10:08 -0500
Subject: [development doc updates]
In-Reply-To: <41923be3$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <mailman.6215.1100101627.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41923be3$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <41923db8$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>

Kent Johnson wrote:
> Using Firefox 1.0 and Firefox 1.0PR on Win2K, the tables are missing the 
> left and right borders. 

and top.

For example in Section 2.3.6, the table of
> operations for sequence types, in the 2.3.4 docs I have a black border 
> on left, right 
top
> and bottom; in the dev docs it is only on the bottom.

Also the borders under the header and at the bottom are heavier in the 
new docs; my guess is that is intentional...

Kent


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Nov  5 18:20:55 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 17:20:55 -0600
Subject: executing python code
In-Reply-To: <cmgvvd$chn$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
References: <cmgvvd$chn$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <418C0AD7.2090603@colorstudy.com>

Darren Dale wrote:
> Some time ago I asked about executing a python program or script. For
> windows, I was informed that the .py extension could be added to some list
> of executable extensions, and then I could just type "mycode" instead of
> "python mycode.py". Great advice, worked like a charm.
> 
> I recently jumped ship, and have been running Gentoo Linux for about two
> months. Is it possible to get the same behavior on Linux? I thought it
> would have something to do with adding the #!/usr/bin/env python line to my
> code, but I'm not sure what this is supposed to do (it didnt work, that
> much I know.)

chmod +x mycode.py
./mycode.py

Note: . (the present directory) probably isn't in your $PATH, so you 
have to use ./ to tell the shell to look in the present directory.  Do 
"echo $PATH" to see where you can put it where it's always accessible. 
You also have to include the extension.  If you want, you can rename it 
to leave off the extension, and that will work fine.  You can also make 
a symlink, like (as root):

cd /usr/local/bin
ln -s /path/to/mycode.py mycode

~/bin is also often in the $PATH, instead of putting it in /usr/local/bin.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From ncoghlan at email.com  Mon Nov 22 09:14:04 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:14:04 +1000
Subject: Import problem
In-Reply-To: <cnsgb8$sep$04$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <cnseqa$g6s$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cnsgb8$sep$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <41a1f42b$0$25786$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Achim Domma (Procoders) wrote:
> Achim Domma (Procoders) wrote:
> 
>> Seems like I'm mixing up something in a very bad way, but I have no 
>> idea what I'm doing wrong!?
> 
> 
> I have moved the calculation of VERSION to a module _Version.py which 
> contains a function Version(), which is imported by __init__.py and 
> _C.py. That works and is much cleaner, but I would still be happy if 
> somebody could explain we, what's going wrong.

Not an explanation, but even developers on the Python core can't always follow 
the twists and turns the import logic can go through when importing a package:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=992389&group_id=5470&atid=105470

Cheers,
Nick.


From eternalsquire at comcast.net  Thu Nov  4 00:23:51 2004
From: eternalsquire at comcast.net (The Eternal Squire)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 22:23:51 -0700
Subject: pep 336: Make None Callable
Message-ID: <S-6dncH1Oqp-IRTcRVn-jw@comcast.com>

In article <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw at comcast.com>,
The Eternal Squire  <eternalsquire at comcast.net> wrote:

 >>
 >>Title: Make None Callable


No, *no*, *NO*, and *HELL NO*.

OTOH, once the BDFL Pronounces, we can return to laughing and pointing
the next time this comes up.
-- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ WiFi is 
the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical reasons 
for sacrificing


Why not?


From bdp003 at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  1 04:01:47 2004
From: bdp003 at hotmail.com (Bengt dePaulis)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 09:01:47 GMT
Subject: saved sys.path
Message-ID: <%Xmhd.29071$g4.544104@news2.nokia.com>

I have a local directory that I want to include in my sys.path

How to save it permanently?

Regards
/Bengt




From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Nov  3 00:36:43 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 23:36:43 -0600
Subject: HTML to Text renderer
In-Reply-To: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E324510E@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E324510E@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <41886E6B.3070903@colorstudy.com>

Robert Brewer wrote:
> Ian Bicking wrote:
> 
>>Does anyone know of a module that can render HTML to text?  Just a 
>>subset of HTML, really; I'd like to compose emails using <p> tags and 
>>whatnot, fill in all the values in the email template, then 
>>apply word 
>>wrapping and other formatting.  Also, it'll make using Zope Page 
>>Templates with email easier.
>>
>>Even if all it supports is <p> and <br> that would be enough, but I'm 
>>hoping there's something even more complete out there.  I don't need 
>>something as general as, say, Lynx; these templates would be written 
>>with a specific renderer in mind.
> 
> 
> To clarify: you don't want the HTML tags merely stripped; you want to
> replace e.g. br with a line break and p with, say, two line breaks?

Right.  And word wrapping too.  Some other tags would also be 
interesting: <blockquote>, <pre>, <hr>, <table>, &nbsp;, and something 
to control alignment (e.g., <p align="">).

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  / http://blog.ianbicking.org


From Chris at Sonnack.com  Tue Nov  2 18:56:03 2004
From: Chris at Sonnack.com (Programmer Dude)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 17:56:03 -0600
Subject: scripting languages vs statically compiled ones
References: <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3064b51d.0410280904.55f2fa4@posting.google.com>
	<ba129ce7.0410281929.35f70763@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ef7go0ps4tl5bei3i38hvj0r7u1rd0var6@4ax.com>

John writes:

> Believe it :-). VB5 and VB6 can be compiled to native code and has
> more or less identical performance to equivalent C code. And why
> should not it? VBA implementation in VB is statically typed, well
> optimized and not even as expressive as C. There is no kind of
> developer productivity overhead like you see in Python :-). If your VB
> code is running slower in VB6, chances are you are using variants and
> other less optimizable features.
> 
> VBA in MS Office is interpreted (not even p-code) and your C dll will
> improve performance a lot, but not much in VB5/VB6.
> 
> I actually benchmarked this 4 years ago. VB4 code ran 30 times slower
> compared to when using a C dll. VB5 code ran at about the same speed
> as C.

Concur.  A while back I thought I could speed up a VB app that had
a lot of bit-twiddle operations by writting a C-based DLL for it.

Turns out it ran slower that way!

Having used the VC++ debugger to step through compiled VB code, I
can attest to it being compiled down to native.  Ratio is much higher
than with, say C or C++... I'd WAG it at about 10:1 or slightly more.



From joel at rosdahl.net  Fri Nov 19 07:46:20 2004
From: joel at rosdahl.net (Joel Rosdahl)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:46:20 +0100
Subject: ANN Python IRCD
In-Reply-To: <m3mzxgdpb9.fsf@union.tjtech.com> (Joseph T. Bore's message of
	"Wed, 17 Nov 2004 23:32:47 GMT")
References: <m3mzxgdpb9.fsf@union.tjtech.com>
Message-ID: <87mzxe2ehv.fsf@fluff.rosdahl.net>

jbore at tjtech.com (Joseph T. Bore) writes:

> I would like to let everyone know about, and release onto the world,
> my python IRCD.
>
> The goals of it were to be small and light, not a full IRC protocol
> implementation.  To that end, it's under 500 lines of code and just
> one file.
>
> It's stable, and seems ready for others to use, I'll probably spend
> the next few releases working on more comments and adding a few more
> basic functions.
>
> I Hope others find it useful..
>
>      http://pyircd.sf.net

Oh. Your project seems very similar to my miniircd
(http://joel.rosdahl.net/projects/#miniircd). Maybe we could share
efforts?

        Regards,
        Joel

-- 
Joel Rosdahl <joel at rosdahl.net>
Key BB845E97; fingerprint 9F4B D780 6EF4 5700 778D  8B22 0064 F9FF BB84 5E97


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov  1 07:19:00 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 07:19:00 -0500
Subject: OT: Ruby programmers use Python
In-Reply-To: <1gmkh2e.14hbem8agi1ieN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>
	<sqednYEeQbsozBncRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5728.1099211579.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.31.18.43.39.352636@large.net>
	<ZoydnWBxGZHHDxjcRVn-jg@speakeasy.net>
	<1gmkh2e.14hbem8agi1ieN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <aWphd.2717$931.2329@lakeread01>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> A.M. Kuchling <amk at amk.ca> wrote:
>    ...
> 
>>can just write plain vanilla HTML, being sure to put DIV elements and ID
>>attributes in the right places, and then style the pages with CSS.  Quixote
>>is betting that pure HTML + CSS is the way of the future.
> 
> 
> Sounds like a pretty safe bet to me, in general terms.  I'm not quite
> sure how fully a 'plain vanilla HTML' page can be controlled,
> looks-wise, with CSS only, but no doubt as generations of CSS succeed
> each other the trend is up (though I don't think it's asymptotically
> going to 100%, but that's a different issue;-).
> 
> 
> Alex

If you take a look at the Zen garden (http://csszengarden.com/) you will 
realize that Quixote's bet is probably a good one. I was pleasantly 
surprised how the recent re-work of www.holdenweb.com made the 
programming for the site (it's static HTML produced from a database) 
much less dependent on look-and-feel issues thanks to input from a good 
designer.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From bartley9 at pacbell.net  Tue Nov 16 21:22:55 2004
From: bartley9 at pacbell.net (PyBo)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 02:22:55 GMT
Subject: Rounding curiosity
Message-ID: <20041116182254.6cb5a603.bartley9@pacbell.net>

What's wrong with this picture?

>>> x = 500000000.0
>>> y = x / (1024 * 1024)
>>> y
476.837158203125
>>> z = round(y, 2)
>>> z
476.83999999999997

I have tried this and get the same result using different CPU's and operating systems.
Obviously, '476.83999999999997' is not rounded to two decimal places.

Or am I doing something wrong?


From danperl at rogers.com  Sun Nov 21 21:27:43 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:27:43 -0500
Subject: Small Database Needed
References: <mailman.6669.1101048884.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<m7-dnTCpSK1MqDzcRVn-sA@rogers.com>
	<FsydnTHKM5qLpzzcRVn-uA@rogers.com>
	<Michael.J.Fromberger-95B81B.20470421112004@localhost>
Message-ID: <cPmdnR5SS6s10zzcRVn-iw@rogers.com>


"Michael J. Fromberger" <Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU> wrote 
in message news:Michael.J.Fromberger-95B81B.20470421112004 at localhost...
> Meet a couple of helpful friends:
>
>  http://shorl.com/
>  http://tinyurl.com/
>
> I hope this helps!

Thanks!  Never felt the need for tools like that before, but with 3 long 
URLs they come in real handy!

Dan 




From caleb1 at telkomsa.net  Thu Nov 25 22:45:59 2004
From: caleb1 at telkomsa.net (Caleb Hattingh)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 22:45:59 -0500
Subject: Replacing words from strings except 'and' / 'or' / 'and not'
References: <41A5EFA9.5030907@arcor.de>
	<mailman.6793.1101408768.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<opsh1v4mc61js0xs@news.telkomsa.net> <m2sm6xof2v.fsf@pchoel.psh>
Message-ID: <opsh1zexmw1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>

Wow, yeh, that's actually much better.

I got into python back when map, filter & lambda were still fashionable.   
The list comprehension is sweeter than the map, that's for sure.

> My solution would be:
>
>>>> keywords = ['my','is']
>>>> sentence = 'hi there my name is caleb'
>>>> lsen = sentence.split()
>>>> def myfunc(kw,word):
> ...     if word in kw:
> ...         return '*%s*' % word
> ...     else:
> ...         return word
> ...
>>>> ans = [ myfunc(keywords, word) for word in lsen ]
>>>> ans
> ['hi', 'there', '*my*', 'name', '*is*', 'caleb']
>>>> newSentence = ' '.join(ans)
>>>> newSentence
> 'hi there *my* name *is* caleb'
>
> Kind Regards
> Berthold



From jerry at jerrysievers.com  Tue Nov 30 09:04:58 2004
From: jerry at jerrysievers.com (Jerry Sievers)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 09:04:58 -0500
Subject: comment out more than 1 line at once?
References: <cohc71$2pqli$1@claire.desy.de>
	<mailman.6908.1101807392.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cohg3q$2q1b5$1@claire.desy.de> <cohidt$f81$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <m3vfbnbfg5.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>

Uwe Grauer <news at grauer-online.de> writes:

> Riko,
> 
> if you are using emacs, try C-c # to comment out a block of code.
> Unfortunally Uncomment is not bound to a key by default.
> Do a key-binding for it by yourself.

In Emacs, you can have the comment-region command do uncomment by
typing C-u first;

C-c #		comment region
C-u C-c #	uncomment region

>From the Emacs online help for plain comment-region'.  you are
probably invoking py-comment-region which is just a python tailored
version;

	Comment or uncomment each line in the region.  With just C-u
	prefix arg, uncomment each line in region.  Numeric prefix arg
	ARG means use ARG comment characters.  If ARG is negative,
	delete that many comment characters instead.  Comments are
	terminated on each line, even for syntax in which newline does
	not end the comment.  Blank lines do not get comments.

...Curiosly, I tried the numeric prefix arg to see it use 2 or more
comment chars or delete as many and I get 2x the number of the prefix
arg.

C-u 2 C-c #		and I get;

####def foo():

HTH


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Sievers   305 854-3001 (home)     WWW ECommerce Consultant
                305 321-1144 (mobile	http://www.JerrySievers.com/


From caleb1 at telkomsa.net  Sat Nov 27 21:49:46 2004
From: caleb1 at telkomsa.net (Caleb Hattingh)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 21:49:46 -0500
Subject: dictionary initialization
References: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<lIydnVF-WvXK3TvcRVn-jA@rogers.com>
	<slrncqciv9.ip7.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<co5j9k$jgv$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<mailman.6817.1101490908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncqerc9.sic.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<opsh3pirx21js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
	<coaf86$70d$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <opsh5l48jl1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>

Peter,

Right :)

I was trying to kill off (with kindness) a thread that just wasn't making  
sense.  The other respondents gave pretty good technical explanations  
regarding the dynamic typing rules, but I suspect the OP's assertion was  
just what I described in the simplest terms I could.  Which doesn't make  
sense as a critical language feature/flaw.

thx
Caleb

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:59:00 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> Caleb Hattingh wrote:
>> IF this is the point you are making, and the awk functionality  
>> demostrated  in this particular example is a really significant feature  
>> for you in your  specific problem domain, then I must concede that awk  
>> is probably right  for you, and you shouldn't waste your time with  
>> Python.
>
> Unfortunately for the logic, if one finds something like
> that to be a "really significant feature ... [in a] specific problem
> domain", then with Python you can of course create your own
> custom data type which behaves exactly as desired.  And in fact
> it is likely that there is additional behaviour that could be
> added that would make the Python approach to the problem *even
> simpler than the awk approach*, but maybe that's getting too
> much of a good thing...
>
> Of course, this capability prevents one from whining about how
> wonderful a specialized limited-purpose tool is compared to
> that waste of space called Python, but if it weren't for people
> like that Usenet would have no traffic and we'd all have lives
> instead.
>
> -Peter



From theller at python.net  Thu Nov 18 10:44:15 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:44:15 +0100
Subject: PIL for Python 2.4?
References: <6r6pp018glonqu2kqeau5ru9nhfj9fpchv@4ax.com>
	<mailman.6543.1100784027.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<b0cpp0tveaidq3lbnsvnji5apnloi4u2g8@4ax.com>
	<419CB9D2.2030504@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1xerqi0g.fsf@python.net>

Robin Becker <robin at reportlab.com> writes:

> Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:17:50 +0100, rumours say that Gerhard Haering
>> <gh at ghaering.de> might have written:
>>
>>>>Has anyone built PIL (1.1.4 or 1.1.5) for Python 2.4?  If yes,
>>>>please let me know, [...]
>>>
>>>I haven't. But it would have been useful if you had mentioned which
>>>platform ;-) Windows?
>> Oh, yes, Windows... On Linux I built it myself.  I just don't have
>> access to a MS compiler on Windows.
>> Sorry for not being clear.
> well I have old MS VC++ 6 and building with setup.py Python 2.4b2
> gives an error related to the compiler; :( I guess I need MSVC++ 7.
>
> I have MSDN subscription, but no idea whether I can get 6 & 7 to coexist.

You need 7.1, not 7.0.  Aka named Visual Studio .NET 2003.

And it coexists with 6.0.

Thomas


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Nov 12 04:20:19 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 01:20:19 -0800
Subject: ZIP files
References: <808f000f.0411100805.7bff7e5d@posting.google.com>
	<qjp4p0dp83ej0e5js9n6inippgpqefb59e@4ax.com>
	<x73bzhpfpx.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0411120120.3f5147d6@posting.google.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message news:<x73bzhpfpx.fsf at guru.mired.org>...
> Ivo Woltring <Python at IvoNet.nl> writes:
> 
> > On 10 Nov 2004 08:05:28 -0800, oriana.falco at thalesesec.com (Oriana)
> > You might wish to try using a larger buffer than 8192 bytes.  BTW,
> > note that Python automatically closes the files since the file objects
> > are released when the function returns.
> 
> This behavior of file objects isn't guaranteed and doesn't happen in
> Jython. It's better - and more pythonic - to explicitly close files.
> 
> After all, explicit is better than implicit.
> 
>       <mike

Hmmm... does this mean that 

open(filename, 'w').write(filedata)

is unsafe ? It's so much more convenient when the object is only going
to be used for the single action.

Regards,

Fuzzy
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  5 07:35:31 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:35:31 +0100
Subject: How do you execute an OS X application (bundle) from Python?
References: <70bb9f8d.0411040250.1f4ac1a@posting.google.com>
	<69cbbef2.0411041513.120fc039@posting.google.com>
	<1gmrrsj.7ljqd6f3sgkfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<m24qk4ttl2.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>
Message-ID: <1gms4py.c7p5cjeee3clN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Dan Sommers <me at privacy.net> wrote:
   ...
> > "Spawning an external editor and waiting until the user is done using it
> > before proceeding" is an important architectural pattern (well examined
> > and analyzed in Raymond's "Art of Unix Programming", like many others).
> 
> Tty based Unix programs, yes; modern GUIs, no.  The usual parent-child
> relationship between application and editor is nowhere to be found these
> days.  Consider this scenario:

And yet, as a user, I vastly prefer those apps which, even if they have
their own GUIs, still let me edit stuff with my text-editor of choice,
say GVIM or Emacs, even when that editor, too, is a "modern GUI" app.
Yes, the process relationship may be murkier and therefore it can be
harder for the driving app to find out when the user is done editing
that file -- nevertheless, I can be SO much more productive with my
editor of choice than with whatever the driving app may choose to use
for text editing, that, as a user, I still consider that important.

>     1.  The application requests that Mac OS launch TextEdit and that
>         TextEdit edit the given file.
> 
>         TextEdit starts (or maybe TextEdit was already running) and
>         opens the document (or maybe the document was already open).
>         The appliction neither knows nor cares about either of those
>         details.
> 
>     2.  In any event (pun intended), the user edits the file, and maybe
>         even saves it once or twice just in case there's a crash, and
>         ponders the configuration before committing to it.
> 
>     3.  The user is distracted by, for example, Software Update (which
>         is very annoying, but it happens), and attends to that matter.
>         It could be a printer failure, or new email, or anything that
>         causes the user to start working in another application.
> 
>     4.  While Software Update is thrashing, the user remembers that the
>         configuration file is open but has already been saved, and
>         closes it by clicking on its window's dimmed close button.
>         TextEdit processes the event and closes the window without
>         further ado.
> 
> At which point does the application know that the user is finished
> editing the file?

The application should somehow be notified after point (4); any earlier
time would be inappropriate.

> With vi-as-a-child-of-the-application, even if the user spawns a
> subshell (and, for that matter, an entire nested X server/session), the
> termination of vi is still a well-defined.

As is the closing of a document by an app.  Whether another app has an
easy time or a hard time finding out is another issue, connected with
how well designed is the OS/desktop manager/window manager/... that is
responsible for coordinating communication between the apps.


> > Ideally it should be the external editor of choice for the user;
> > foisting vi on poor innocent machistas just because it's easy to wait
> > for THAT and hard to wait for TextEdit would seem mean;-)...
> 
> Speaking as a long time Unix hacker *and* long time Mac user, Forcing
> machistas to use a text editor instead of a GUI to edit config files
> would seem mean.  ;-)

Speaking as a long time Unix lover who's reasonably recently falled in
love with the Mac, just like _many_ others these days, *because* MacOSX
*is* now a Unix -- I'd rather keep the option of editing textfiles with
a text editor, not be forced to use somebody else's idea of how that
particular file should be edited, thankyouverymuch.  It's exactly the
concept that I _couldn't_ work the way I liked, with a commandline and
text editors, that kept my interest in the Mac hovering around 0 for
about 19 years.  Then, suddenly, I found out that it had become an
excellent BSD *plus* a neat GUI layer -- now, *that* was interesting!

Developers of Mac apps, mostly -- and therefore developers of
infrastructure that runs on Macs to help apps -- apparently haven't yet
caught on to this reasonably-new bunch of users, me included, who see
MacOSX as just what it IS today -- a BSD with a neat GUI on top (and a
Mach underneath, sure, but that's hardly ever relevant;-).  Fine, I
guess we'll stick with fink and darwinports and the like.  But (unless
I'm being paid for it) I'm not going to write an application that I
would never want to use myself.  So, if the only way to shell out to an
editor is to write commandline apps instead of GUIs, and use /usr/bin/vi
(which IS, after all, one editor Apple that is bundling, to which we can
easily shell out), then that's going to be what we do -- until and
unless shelling out to TextEdit or BBEdit or whatever is just as easy.

Sure, Windows and Linux DEs make it easier because they do preserve the
traditional process relationship -- I can start another process running
(whatever program, GUI or not) and wait for that process to terminate,
rather than having to reuse an existing process that already happens to
be running that program.  But, since the event I need is "done
processing that specific file", I should be able to wait for that, just
as easily as I can wait for process termination.


Alex


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Thu Nov 11 08:48:29 2004
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:48:29 -0500
Subject: Status of BaseHTTPServer
In-Reply-To: <41934512.2060302@sweetapp.com>
References: <4e4a11f8.0411110023.52526404@posting.google.com>
	<41934512.2060302@sweetapp.com>
Message-ID: <20041111134829.GA28743@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Brian Quinlan]

> Patches, bugs, etc. should be done through Sourceforge:
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/python

They do not offer an email interface.  This list does! :-)

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://pinard.progiciels-bpi.ca


From adurdin at gmail.com  Tue Nov  2 20:39:44 2004
From: adurdin at gmail.com (Andrew Durdin)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:39:44 +1100
Subject: scripting languages vs statically compiled ones
In-Reply-To: <ef7go0ps4tl5bei3i38hvj0r7u1rd0var6@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3064b51d.0410280904.55f2fa4@posting.google.com>
	<ba129ce7.0410281929.35f70763@posting.google.com>
	<ef7go0ps4tl5bei3i38hvj0r7u1rd0var6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <59e9fd3a041102173920bb72ec@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 17:56:03 -0600, Programmer Dude <chris at sonnack.com> wrote:
> 
> Concur.  A while back I thought I could speed up a VB app that had
> a lot of bit-twiddle operations by writting a C-based DLL for it.
> 
> Turns out it ran slower that way!
> 
> Having used the VC++ debugger to step through compiled VB code, I
> can attest to it being compiled down to native.  Ratio is much higher
> than with, say C or C++... I'd WAG it at about 10:1 or slightly more.

On the other hand, I had to do base64 decoding of a string in a VB
app; I got a very significant speed increase by rewriting that portion
with a C DLL. So YMMV I guess :)


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Nov 22 05:22:20 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:22:20 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org><16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org><cnlgv2$vc$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<16798.19563.729805.103774@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <cnseks$c34$1@sea.gmane.org>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
>    >> My guess is Microsoft hopes to discourage Visual Basic knock-offs.  Claim
>    >> 2 clearly seems to restrict the scope to BASIC.
>
>    Neal> Doesn't Python (along with probably every other language ever
>    Neal> invented) display prior art here?
>
> Sure, but maybe there is no such prior art in the BASIC arena.

IIRC, the "inventor" mentioned on his weblog that he didn't come up with the idea
himself; it was suggested by customers.  In other words, the solution clearly wasn't
obvious to the "inventor" himself, since he didn't invent it.  And if it's not obvious,
it can be patented, right?  As chewbacca would say, if it doesn't make sense, you
must patent!

I need coffee.

</F> 





From lbates at syscononline.com  Wed Nov 24 18:23:18 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:23:18 -0600
Subject: GCJ equivalent for Python?
In-Reply-To: <Af-dnWNrt-27QzncRVn-iA@centurytel.net>
References: <Af-dnWNrt-27QzncRVn-iA@centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <yY-dnYlFh_dPijjcRVn-pA@comcast.com>

On Windows I use py2exe.  It isn't REALLY compiled but the
problem you describe doesn't sound like you necessarily want
compilation but rather a way to create an easy to distribute
program of just a few files.  After that I use Inno Installer
to create a single setup.exe file that self installs.  You
didn't say what platform you were on, so this may or may not
be helpful to you.  When user installs they to have no idea
it is "interpreted" Python that is running.

Larry Bates

Ed Suominen wrote:
> I have been programming Python for a year or so and like everything about it
> except for the difficulty of distributing programs to someone who doesn't
> have the 10MB+ interpreter package downloaded installed.
> 
> I'm a frequent user of pdftk, a Java-based PDF-manipulation program that
> runs natively (no JVM required) because it is compiled with gcj. It's
> plenty fast and you really never know that it was written in Java unless
> you try to build it.
> 
> So, the question naturally arises, why isn't there something like the gcj
> compiler for Python?
> 
> Ed Suominen
> Registered Patent Agent
> Open-Source Software Author (yes, both...)
> Web Site: http://www.eepatents.com


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Nov  3 09:50:17 2004
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 3 Nov 2004 06:50:17 -0800
Subject: ANN: New configuration module released
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840@posting.google.com>

I've just made available the first general release of a configuration
module for Python. It has grown out of the need to make configuration
easier and more powerful (for developers and end users) than
ConfigParser.

It's one of the implementations which could be considered in the
ConfigParser shootout, mentioned on the Python Wiki at

http://www.python.org/moin/ConfigParserShootout

What Does It Do?
================
The config module allows you to implement a hierarchical configuration
scheme with support for mappings and sequences, cross-references
between one part of the configuration and another, the ability to
flexibly access real Python objects, facilities for configurations to
include and cross-reference one another, simple expression evaluation
and the ability to change, save, cascade and merge configurations.

This module has been developed on python 2.3 but should work on
version 2.2 or greater. A test suite using unittest is included in the
distribution.

A very simple configuration file (simple.cfg):

# starts here
message: Hello, world!
#ends here

a very simple program to use it:

from config import Config

cfg = Config(file('simple.cfg'))
print cfg.message

results in:

Hello, world!

Configuration files are key-value pairs, but the values can be
containers that contain further values
A simple example - with the example configuration file: 

messages:
[
  {
    stream : `sys.stderr`
    message: 'Welcome'
    name: 'Harry'
  }
  {
    stream : `sys.stdout`
    message: 'Welkom'
    name: 'Ruud'
  }
  {
    stream : $messages[0].stream
    message: 'Bienvenue'
    name: Yves
  }
]

a program to read the configuration would be:

from config import Config

f = file('simple.cfg')
cfg = Config(f)
for m in cfg.messages:
    s = '%s, %s' % (m.message, m.name)
    try:
        print >> m.stream, s
    except IOError, e:
        print e

which, when run, would yield the console output:

Welcome, Harry
Welkom, Ruud
Bienvenue, Yves

The above example just scratches the surface. There's more information
about this module available at

http://www.red-dove.com/python_config.html

Comprehensive API documentation is available at

http://www.red-dove.com/config/index.html

As always, your feedback is most welcome (especially bug reports,
patches and suggestions for improvement). Enjoy!

Cheers

Vinay Sajip
Red Dove Consultants Ltd.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Nov 29 05:03:52 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 11:03:52 +0100
Subject: Building web graphics with Python
References: <bee4de44.0411282217.650d0e73@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <coes68$2q4$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steven Feil wrote:

>I am wondering if there is a light weight Python library for producing
> web graphics on-the-fly. There is a C-language library called gd that
> can be used in a CGI program to produce gif images.  The Library can
> be used to produce graphics images that are dynamically generated.  I
> was wondering if there is something similar for Python.

here's one such library:

    http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/index.htm

if you insist on using GD itself, use the gdmodule:

    http://newcenturycomputers.net/projects/gdmodule.html

</F> 





From ivy at doramail.com  Tue Nov  2 01:51:14 2004
From: ivy at doramail.com (ivy)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 14:51:14 +0800
Subject: How to use Data Structure (such as Tree,link list) by Python?
References: <cm6vco$195$1@netnews.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <cm7apa$o2i$1@mail.cn99.com>

Python has built-in list and search tree.
If you like , you can write it by yourself.




From pete.forman at westerngeco.com  Wed Nov 24 11:16:42 2004
From: pete.forman at westerngeco.com (Pete Forman)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 16:16:42 +0000
Subject: How to get an item from a simple set?
References: <mzx7xo74.fsf@wgmail2.gatwick.eur.slb.com>
	<mailman.6756.1101311220.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <is7vxlw5.fsf@wgmail2.gatwick.eur.slb.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

 >     Pete> I have a set that contains one item.  What is the best way of
 >     Pete> getting at that item?  Using pop() empties the set.  
 > 
 > If you just want to grab one arbitrary (though not random) item from the
 > set, try:
 > 
 >     elt = iter(s).next()

I actually wanted to append the single item to a string,  Steven's
solutions work for assignment.

So this looks like my best bet.  I'll probably use join instead of +=
in my code.

>>> line = 'bar '
>>> line += iter(s).next()
>>> line
'bar foo'

-- 
Pete Forman                -./\.-  Disclaimer: This post is originated
WesternGeco                  -./\.-   by myself and does not represent
pete.forman at westerngeco.com    -./\.-   opinion of Schlumberger, Baker
http://petef.port5.com           -./\.-   Hughes or their divisions.


From Andrew at ferndale.net.nz  Sun Nov 21 15:20:08 2004
From: Andrew at ferndale.net.nz (Andrew A. Cox)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:20:08 +1300
Subject: Floating point -> string conversions
Message-ID: <9DA3F6A6D39A8045848BC9F128D093CDCCC1@silver.ferndale.net.nz.local>

I disagree with '%d' you have explicitly requested that the number be
turned into an integer for use as a string, so you expect that as long
as you feed it a number (be it int, long or float) that it changes to a
string representation of an integer.  Now it may be nice to have a flag
that says how you want to round it.

-----Original Message-----
From: John Fouhy [mailto:jfouhy at paradise.net.nz] 
Sent: Friday, 19 November 2004 2:47 p.m.
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Floating point -> string conversions

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:<t9Skd.57$nj.56 at lakeread01>...
> The fact that %s coerces things makes us expect more of other format 
> tokens, but what would you expect %d to do with 2147483648.5?

I'd expect it to give me "2147483648", since that would be consistent
with its other behaviour :-)

(eg: eval('"%d" % 1.5') == '1')

I guess what annoys me is that python encourages you to not worry
about the difference between ints and longs (which is great) (unless
you're doing high performance computing), but then something like this
can cause code to stop working just because you've passed a border
which is almost invisible.

(of course, this means that one solution which I would be happy with
is for python to reject any non-integer/long arguments to "%d" :-) )

-- 
John.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net  Fri Nov 12 09:18:08 2004
From: philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:18:08 -0600
Subject: Questions pending .... Not anymore
Message-ID: <200411120818.08021.philippecmartin@sbcglobal.net>

Thank you all for your answers:

1) I will generate binaries and use as few as possible python calls in my 
extentions:
2) doing a set_next in overwritten bdb user_line (instead of set_step) + 
useing set_break instead of handling it myself did speed things up greatly.

Appreciate the help.


Philippe


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Nov  3 19:27:09 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 16:27:09 -0800
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
In-Reply-To: <10ois9flj489d5e@corp.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.5878.1099521520.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10ois9flj489d5e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20041103161001.F7F5.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
> 
> Josiah Carlson wrote:
> 
> >Zunbeltz Izaola <zunbeltz at wm.lc.ehu.es.XXX> wrote:
> >  
> >
> >>If I put some code after the .start() method the queue will be
> >>empty. Do I need to insert a infinite loop to see when the exception
> >>is raised?
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >In your main thread (the one handling the GUI), you can set up a
> >wx.Timer() whose bound event checks the queue every second or so.
> >
> >As another poster mentioned, you can also post events to the GUI, which
> >can either say "there is an exception traceback in the queue" or "here
> >is the exception traceback".
> >  
> >
> 
> Another possibility is to check the queue in an idle-event handler.  
> When you place something in the queue, you can call wx.WakeUpIdle() to 
> ensure that the main thread will do idle processing at its soonest 
> opportunity.

The only ugly part about idle handling is that idle handlers are called
quite often (at least in the wxPython versions I've run).  Specifically,
whenever I move my mouse over a wxPython app window, idle events are
streamed to the idle event handler at 30-60 events/second.

Not really a big deal, but something people should know about none the
less.


 - Josiah

#source I used, lack of new namespace the result of copy/paste from
#wxPython wiki

from wxPython.wx import wxPySimpleApp, wxFrame, EVT_IDLE
import time

class myframe(wxFrame):
    def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
        wxFrame.__init__(self, *args, **kwargs)
        self.t = None
        EVT_IDLE(self, self.idle_handler)
    
    def idle_handler(self, evt):
        if self.t is None:
            self.t = time.time()
        else:
            print round(time.time()-self.t, 3),
            self.t = time.time()
        evt.Skip()

app = wxPySimpleApp()
frame = myframe(None, -1, "Ugly Idle Handling")
frame.Show(1)
app.MainLoop()


#output on win2k, Python 2.3.2, wxPython 2.4.2.4  while wiggling my
#mouse over the window...

C:\Temp>test_idle.py
1.828 0.016 0.015 0.032 0.015 0.016 0.015 0.032 0.031 0.016 0.406 0.547 0.031 0.
016 0.015 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.01
6 0.015 0.016 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.015
0.016 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.016 0.
015 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.016 0.01
6 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.015 0.016
0.016 0.015 0.016 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.016 0.015 0.
016 0.015 0.016 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.01
6 0.015 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.016 0.015 0.016 0.015 0.016

C:\Temp>



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov 23 14:00:30 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:00:30 GMT
Subject: itertools.islice and slice objects
Message-ID: <iNLod.382692$wV.233883@attbi_s54>

Is there a reason that itertools.islice doesn't support None arguments 
for start and step?  This would be handy for use with slice objects:

 >>> r = range(20)
 >>> s1 = slice(2, 10, 2)
 >>> s2 = slice(2, 10)
 >>> s3 = slice(10)
 >>> list(itertools.islice(r, s1.start, s1.stop, s1.step))
[2, 4, 6, 8]
 >>> list(itertools.islice(r, s2.start, s2.stop, s2.step))
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: an integer is required
 >>> list(itertools.islice(r, s2.start, s2.stop, s2.step or 1))
[2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
 >>> list(itertools.islice(r, s3.start, s3.stop, s3.step))
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: an integer is required
 >>> list(itertools.islice(r, s3.start or 0, s3.stop, s3.step or 1))
[0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]

Of course, I can get (start, stop, step) tuples with slice.indices, but 
only if I know the length of the iterable, which kinda defeats the 
purpose of using itertools...

 >>> list(itertools.islice(r, *s2.indices(10)))
[2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
 >>> list(itertools.islice(r, *s3.indices(10)))
[0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]

Steve


From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Mon Nov  8 07:36:34 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 12:36:34 GMT
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmgcp1$hpk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncong4u.1tk.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmggel$t2o$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cmggh2$t2o$01$2@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5996.1099739023.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmil81$184$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<GW9jd.20763$K7.6442@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <slrncouq2h.mcv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>

>     The layout is also modified by various compiler options.

really? that would mean that c++ libs themselves are not binary compatible
among each other?

(You are not talking of that insane issue with M$'s libs when compiled with
or without debug info, are you?)

> I believe that,
>  with  symbolic debugging information, this feature could be implemented but
>  it would be a large amount of work.

i can believe that. but it would tremendously foster Python's spreading.

cheers,
gab.

-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| There are works which wait,                                             |
| and which one does not understand for a long time; [...]                |
| for the question often arrives a terribly long time after the answer.   |
|                                                         (Oscar Wilde)   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 02:22:47 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 07:22:47 GMT
Subject: keyword argument for min/max
Message-ID: <bdVqd.169192$HA.25083@attbi_s01>

So I've been playing around with trying to add a keyword argument to min 
and max that works similarly to the one for sorted.  It wasn't too hard 
actually, but it does raise a few questions about proper handling of 
keyword arguments.  Currently, help(max) gives:

max(...)
     max(sequence) -> value
     max(a, b, c, ...) -> value

     With a single sequence argument, return its largest item.
     With two or more arguments, return the largest argument.

Now, if 'key' is to be added as an argument, it cannot be accepted as a 
positional argument because the second form of max tells us that, as a 
positional argument, the function is just another item to be compared:

 >>> d = dict(a=3, b=2, c=1)
 >>> max(d, d.__getitem__)
{'a': 3, 'c': 1, 'b': 2}

As you can see, the current implementation compares the dict 'd' and its 
__getitem__ method, and determines that 'd' is larger.  For backwards 
compatibility then, 'key' cannot be accepted as a positional argument.

It is possible to allow 'key' only as a keyword argument, and not as a 
positional argument.  This is what my current implementation does:

 >>> d = dict(a=3, b=2, c=1)
 >>> max(d)
'c'
 >>> max(d, d.__getitem__)
{'a': 3, 'c': 1, 'b': 2}
 >>> max(d, key=d.__getitem__)
'a'

Notice the different behavior when d.__getitem__ is specified as a 
keyword argument and when it is specified as a positional argument.  My 
question is, is this a reasonable approach?  It's the only one I could 
think of that seems to guarantee backwards compatibility, but it's a 
little counterintuitive to me that max(d, d.__getitem__) and
max(d, key=d.__getitem__) don't produce the same thing.

Steve


From jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  6 14:39:31 2004
From: jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1)
Date: 6 Nov 2004 11:39:31 -0800
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5992.1099726289.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c718a6cf.0411061139.7a5f93bb@posting.google.com>

Maurice LING <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.5992.1099726289.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> > Interestingly enough, I sort of share your perception -- and I have
> > noticed the same thing, and seen it remarked upon by others, in other,
> > completely unrelated newsgroups as well, such as it.comp.macintosh.
> > 
> > It's not, I think, about newbies in general: people who come and post
> > help requests, without giving the information that's quite obviously
> > indispensabile to let us help them, keep getting treated with
> > unreasonable amounts of friendliness and courtesy even after many
> > requests for more info go unheeded, for example.
> > 
> > However, newbies who are clueless enough to come blasting in with the
> > usual whines we've heard a zillion times -- Macs cost too much, Python
> > is too slow, there's no apps for Macs, Python must absolutely add
> > feature X or it will die, Apple's gonna go broke tomorrow, etc, etc --
> > do appear to get on our collective nerves worse than their essentially
> > indistinguishable precursors did last year, two years ago, &c.
> > 
> > The accusation of being a troll often follows, breaking the old advice
> > to "Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by
> > incompetence".  Maybe it's a case of the corollary to that old advice,
> > "Sufficiently advanced cluelessness is indistinguishable from malice".
> > But why that should be so this year more than last year, say, is not
> > clear to me...
> > 
> > 
> > Alex
> 
> I've already said the following and was not noticed:
> 
> 1. it is a disk intensive I/O operation.
> 2. users delay is not in the equation (there is no user input)
> 3. I am not interested in the amount of time needed to develop it. But 
> only interested execution speed.
> 
> Thanks maurice


this is still not enough information to give an answer to. and as for
"disk intensive" all languages handle disk i/o about the same since
they have to rely on the underlying Operating System, its drivers.


From donn at drizzle.com  Wed Nov 10 00:50:38 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 05:50:38 -0000
Subject: Problem flushing stderr in embedded python
References: <VoRjd.33$iY3.7@trnddc01>
	<aa1af1ad.0411082048.6432d122@posting.google.com>
	<DW7kd.2069$z_4.652@trnddc07>
Message-ID: <1100065836.697971@yasure>

Quoth "Farshid Lashkari" <lashkariNO at SPAMworldviz.com>:
| I don't understand it from a C perspective either. I poked around the source
| code for python and found where it is flushing the file. It is simply
| calling fflush on the FILE handle. Also, I'm somewhat bewildered as to why
| running the string "sys.stderr.flush()" is different than directly calling
| the flush method of the stderr object. Oh well, I guess some things are
| better left unknown.

It could be different if the stderr object - i.e., PySys_GetObject("stderr") -
is actually not sys.stderr.  I don't understand why, but am not familiar
with PySys_*, so I offer that as a hypothesis you might be able to test.
By the way, since as you observed it's only calling fflush(), I think you
could leave Python out of it altogether and do this with just
   fflush(stdout);
   fflush(stderr);

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Mon Nov 22 04:39:23 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:39:23 -0000
Subject: clear screen / locate cursor
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434BE1@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

peter.mosley at talk21.com]
| I am just trying to learn python, to use for some fairly basic command
| line utilities which will run in either Windows/DOS or Linux. I cannot
| find a platform neutral way of manipulating the screen.
| 
| It seems that under Linux the curses module will do all this and more
| (though I haven't tried it), but despite Python documentation curses
| does not seem to be available under DOS. 

A quick google for: Python win32 curses
turned up http://flangy.com/dev/python/curses/ as the
first hit. Any use?

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
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From levub137 at wi.rr.com  Sun Nov 28 12:21:55 2004
From: levub137 at wi.rr.com (Raymond L. Buvel)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 17:21:55 GMT
Subject: [ANN] rpncalc-1.0 RPN Calculator For Python
In-Reply-To: <41a9fd4e$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <mailman.6851.1101655836.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>
	<41a9fd4e$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <TOnqd.61281$ye4.42153@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>

Kent Johnson wrote:
> Ray Buvel wrote:
> 
>> Module that adds an interactive Reverse Polish Notation (RPN)
>> interpreter to Python.  This interpreter allows the use of Python as
>> an RPN calculator.  You can easily switch between the RPN interpreter
>> and the standard Python interpreter.
>>
>> Home page:  http://calcrpnpy.sourceforge.net/
> 
> 
> The .tar.gz file seems to be corrupt, opening it with WinZip it 
> uncompresses the .gz then I get "Error reading header after processing 0 
> entries."
> 
> Kent

This is a problem I have encountered with WinZip before.  The compressed 
tar file was created with Python's tarfile module with the 'w:gz' mode. 
  The resulting file works fine with a number of archive packages under 
Linux and with the tar command in the MKS toolkit under Windows.

If I get around to it, I may make a .zip file available for Windows. 
Until then, I suggest you use Python's tarfile module or something other 
than WinZip to read it on a Windows platform.

Sorry for the inconvenience but I develop on Linux :-)


From sean at buildingonline.com  Mon Nov  8 15:33:48 2004
From: sean at buildingonline.com (Sean Berry)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 12:33:48 -0800
Subject: Determining combination of bits
References: <x3Qjd.121786$hj.41260@fed1read07>
	<mailman.6124.1099945664.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8KQjd.121796$hj.4674@fed1read07>

Just to set everyone's mind at ease... I haven't had a homework assignment 
for about four years now.

I am using two database tables.  One will have some options and a code 
(power of 2).

Then, someone will check off checkboxes and submit.  The number will be 
added and saved in a cookie.  Then, later, I want to be able to redisplay 
their choices by reading the value from the cookie.

I expect the values will get no bigger than 2^32  = 4294967296.  Is this 
getting too big???

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message 
news:mailman.6124.1099945664.5135.python-list at python.org...
>
> "Sean Berry" <sean at buildingonline.com> wrote in message 
> news:x3Qjd.121786$hj.41260 at fed1read07...
>> and I am given some numbers, say 22, 25, and 9.  I want to determine the 
>> keys, powers of 2, that comprise the number.
>> How do I get these keys?
>
> if n%2: print 'has a positive one bit'
>
> n//2 == n>>1 deletes that bit
>
> keep track of divisions/shifts and stop when n == 0
>
> Terry J. Reedy
>
>
> 




From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Sat Nov  6 04:39:24 2004
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 09:39:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<878y9gbkh7.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <Xns95996C7608C77cpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>

Israel Raj T <rambam at bigpond.net.au> wrote in news:878y9gbkh7.fsf at pop-
server.bigpond.net.au:

> On the updated version at http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/craps.php,
> Python beats at least two java implementations.

Very interesting link, great ressource!!!

What really is disturbing: within the test "hash access" perl2 comes out 
first compared with java.

A know that Python dictionaries are the most heavily used datastructure 
(because it is allways used within Python itself), and from looking at the 
sourcecode there is the line "with help from Raymund Hettinger"; so I am 
very sure it is probably THE optimal coding.

So... string processing, regular expression, blablabla no problem; but why 
second to perl2 in Hash-access ???

Harald


From eddie at replicon.com  Tue Nov 16 13:57:54 2004
From: eddie at replicon.com (Eddie Parker)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:57:54 -0700
Subject: .pyc files...
In-Reply-To: <slrncpkha7.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
Message-ID: <20041116185807.16EB81E4006@bag.python.org>

<chuckles> No, I'm not, not always.

Doesn't preclude Cygwin, or http://unxtools.sourceforge.net, however... Some
days I wish Windows was more like Linux.. Some days I wish Linux was more
like Windows.. Ah well, that's the way she goes. :)

Thanks for everyone's help on this. ;) Looks like there might be forward
movement on this, if not just right yet.. Wish I had time to pick up the
patch myself! :)

-e-

[Assuming OP = Original Poster]. :)

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+eddie=replicon.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+eddie=replicon.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
Jorgen Grahn
Sent: November 16, 2004 11:24 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: .pyc files...

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 16:48:51 -0600, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
> "Simon John" <simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk> writes:
> 
>> Stephen Waterbury wrote:
>>
>>> > OK, stupid question, but it's been bothering me for ages.. J
>>> >
>>> > I love Python to bits, but .pyc files always litter my source tree,
>> and
>>> > they've always bothered me. ...
>>
>>> One solution (on unices, at least):
>>>
>>> alias cleanpy="find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm {} ';'"
>> or with backticks:  rm -rf `find . -name '*.pyc'`
> 
> Better with $(: rm -rf $(find . -name '*.pyc').

Yeah, but then you're bash-specific.  Or at least that rules sh, csh and
tcsh.

My weapon of choice would be
  find . -name '*.pyc' | xargs rm
but on the other hand .pyc files don't bother me much ...

/Jorgen
(who wonders if the OP really was on a Unix system)

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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From niels_bohr at uol.com.br  Sat Nov  6 20:50:14 2004
From: niels_bohr at uol.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio?= Mendes)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 23:50:14 -0200
Subject: PEP new assert idiom
In-Reply-To: <1gmurvv.1meude125h1zrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmurvv.1meude125h1zrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1099792214.8551.19.camel@localhost.localdomain>

> > >>> erromsg = 'Errormsg'
> > >>> assert statement 1, errormsg 
> > >>> assert statement 2, 'errormsg
> > >>> (...)
> > >>> assert statement n, errormsg
> 
> Why isn't this equivalent?  Apart from the fact that you keep, here and
> elsewhere, using 'statement' where you hopefully mean 'expression' --
> you cannot assert a statement, you can only assert an expression.

There is only the conceptually subtle difference that in the 1st you
asserts the whole block of expressions, the second you assert each
expression. They're likely to be the same, probably they will be
equivalent in all cases but I can't backup the truth or falsity of that
statement. The pythonic counterpart involves too much typing and is more
error prone.

> Now, calling expressions expressions, rather than very confusingly
> statements, can you explain how the semantics of this, with foo being
> called, would differ from those of
> 
> assert exp1 and exp2 and exp3 ... and expN, 'errormsg'

This is very similar to what I'm proposing, with the only inconvinience
that is uglier to type:

assert \
  exp1 and \
  exp2 and \
  ...
  expn,
  'ErrorMsg'

Instead of:

assert \
  exp1,
  exp2,
  ...
  expn,
  'Errormsg'

Well, I realize I didn't expressed my thoughts very clearly and that
it's indeed a very minor change in python's syntax. It won't let anyone
does anything new, IFAIK, but it makes a common pattern of code a little
more beautiful, (and why not? more expressive). If one consider the fact
that it won't break old code (only in one very unlikely case) I don't
see it as a completely unreasonable suggestion. Other people may think
differently though.

Thanks,
Fabio


From eddie at replicon.com  Fri Nov 19 16:24:18 2004
From: eddie at replicon.com (Eddie Parker)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:24:18 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <16798.19635.797903.635071@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20041119212434.A47021E4009@bag.python.org>

Pardon me, what's "QOTW"?

[ Quote|Quiz ] of The Week, is the nearest thing Google tells me. :)

-e-

-----Original Message-----
From: Skip Montanaro [mailto:skip at pobox.com] 
Sent: November 19, 2004 12:43 PM
To: Eddie Parker
Cc: 'Neal D. Becker'; python-list at python.org
Subject: RE: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'


    Eddie> Best way to discourage visual basic knock offs, is to try and use
    Eddie> visual basic, in my opinion.

QOTW?

S

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From cm012b5105 at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Nov 26 17:21:45 2004
From: cm012b5105 at blueyonder.co.uk (cm012b5105)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 22:21:45 +0000
Subject: Introduction/box
Message-ID: <200411262221.45343.cm012b5105@blueyonder.co.uk>

Hello every body this is my first post i would just like to say im new to to 
python iv tried out several different tutorials.And i think its great anyway 
i would like to ask a question if i may i want to know how to make a 
box /square i was hoping some one would tell me. That way i would have 
something to work off,iv just downloaded pygame and i haqve done all my 
practice using "idle" thanks 
    nige


From rstephens at vectron.com  Sat Nov 20 15:09:30 2004
From: rstephens at vectron.com (Ron Stephens)
Date: 20 Nov 2004 12:09:30 -0800
Subject: seeking a new host for the "Python Grimoire"
References: <b16e4ef7.0411161729.51e2ea80@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a5415304.0411201209.34b7f707@posting.google.com>

I notice that the Grimoire is no longer accessible. Please let us know
when it comes back online. I do think it fills a niche. Also, I love
the idea of the Grimoire coming back as a Wiki, it seems the perfect
candidate for folks to post best practices.

Ron Stephens


From timr at probo.com  Tue Nov  9 02:11:14 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 23:11:14 -0800
Subject: cherrypy/cheetah vs twisted/nevow
References: <slrncoc0tr.1tc7.charlotte@xs2.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.5766.1099319968.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncoumh1.p6v.charlotte@xs2.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <u5r0p09lbn2c62aoo5oroemcdsa1lg9rps@4ax.com>

Charlotte <charlotte at donotspam.invalid> wrote:
>
>Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
>>  Hi! That was the same reason that got me hooked on CherryPy: it's
>>  simplicity, and the fact that it seemed so 'obvious' to use. 
>
>Yes, I continue to love it. I wonder why it is not much more used.

Do you expose the CherryPy server directly to the public, or do you run a
proxy through Apache?

I also find CherryPy very natural and easy to understand, but I'm concerned
about deployment issues.  Every site I do has to share the serverspace with
other web apps.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk  Tue Nov  9 04:23:21 2004
From: phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 09:23:21 -0000 (GMT)
Subject: Help on installing PyQt on MacOSX 10.3 needed
In-Reply-To: <5fb00e69.0411081405.35d40c1b@posting.google.com>
References: <5fb00e69.0411081405.35d40c1b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <32029.82.68.80.137.1099992201.squirrel@82.68.80.137>

> Hi,
>
> I wanted to run a program that is written in PyQt on my mac, and went
> over to Riverbank to get PyQ 3.13 and SIP 4.1.1 sources.
>
> I followed the installation guide except for the compiling python as
> Macosx already has python.
>
> I had no problem with compiling SIP and also no problem with compiling
> PyQt nor did I have any error message during make install.
>
> Now the last step in the install documentation says that I have to
> edit several files regarding python itself, and then recompile it.
> This is where I got stuck. The mac native python cannot find the
> package qt with a import qt command on the commandline, and I have no
> experience whatsoever with python.
>
> Maybe somebody has been successful installing PyQt with the native
> python in macosx 10.3 and can help me?

Where does it say that you need to re-compile Python? You don't need to
touch Python - unless you are deploying applications and want to build a
version of Python with PyQt as builtin modules.

Phil



From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Sat Nov 13 04:23:09 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 13 Nov 2004 09:23:09 GMT
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmgcp1$hpk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncong4u.1tk.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmggel$t2o$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cmggh2$t2o$01$2@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5996.1099739023.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmil81$184$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<GW9jd.20763$K7.6442@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<slrncouq2h.mcv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<5V0kd.30218$K7.5461@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<slrncp51j8.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
	<xCIkd.32467$K7.21696@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <slrncpbkfk.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:07:57 GMT, Neil Hodgson <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> Neil Hodgson:
> 
> #    Much of the time C++ code only has to be compatible with the other
> # modules it is delivered with.
> 
> 
> Jorgen Grahn:
> 
>> But most of the time it has to be compatible with the standard library.
>>
>> Even if these flags exist, I think it's very rare to encounter more than
> one
>> layout, for one specific compiler/compiler version/architecture.
> 
>    The most commonly changed layout option is structure packing. Many C/C++
> projects decide upon a particular packing option often just to be compatible
> with files from the initial version or other applications and libraries.
> 
> [...] C system libraries like standard I/O and platform
> libraries like Win32 use explicit compiler instructions to ensure they can
> deal with client option choice. The Win32 headers use #pragma pack(n) to
> ensure that client code will compile assuming particular packing of system
> structures no matter how the client code is packing its own structures.
...

I see. Then this seems to me to be a Windows culture issue which I've missed
because I'm a Unix person. The GNU and Solaris libcs (and all other Unix
shared libraries that I'm aware of) do not do this. Same thing with
AmigaDOS, as I recall it.  Access these from code compiled with non-standard
packing and you're toast.

(Some Unix include files (things in /usr/include/netinet/, for example) have
structs with elaborate padding so that they can match e.g. an IP header
perfectly. This places a restriction on compiler writers, of course.)

That also explains to me why so many embedded projects I've been in have
messed with structure packing - the architects were Windows people. 

One reason this is rare in the non-Windows world is (I suppose) that there's
often a huge run-time penalty for accessing misaligned words on non-x86
processors. The default layout is almost always the best possible, unless
you are low on memory.

/J?rgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Nov 19 16:44:09 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:44:09 +0100
Subject: Question about thread
References: <1100875373.911763@eng-ser6>
	<306ic5F2svtsdU1@uni-berlin.de>	<1100879122.755150@eng-ser4>
	<mailman.6607.1100881214.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cnlmt0$jea$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <cnlpfe$66f$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Jarek Zgoda wrote:

>> You need to cause the main thread to wait on the child threads until
>> they've all finished, otherwise - as Peter Hickman just mentioned - your
>> script will terminate and all threads will end. Ten seconds on Google
>> found this:
>> 
>> http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/1364
> 
> Are you sure? I keep observing that child threads continue its execution
> until completion even if I do nothing in main thread. Consider this
> example:

You are using the real thing - the highlevel threading.Thread class - not
the underlying thread.start_new_thread() function. 
The threading module creates a _MainThread (a Thread subclass) instance that
registers itself as an atexit handler and waits for the other (non-demon)
Thread instances to terminate.

Failure-to-provide-the-source-code-will-ultimately-work-against
-companies-sitting-on-a-pile-of-crap-patents-ly yours

Peter





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  7 03:10:34 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 09:10:34 +0100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<418C7DCB.60502@acm.org>
	<mailman.5997.1099739459.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<62kv52-npq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<1gmun13.6rynz217b0hm1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4ab062-2rs.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <1gmvh6o.jbx87e1ruu14fN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Roger Binns <rogerb at rogerbinns.com> wrote:
   ...
> I/O is one area where Java is *very* different than other environments.
> Java emphasises the ability to select at runtime (typically from

Python's dynamism at runtime is definitely one of its fortes.

> Note how in Python, files do read/write whereas sockets do
> send/recv.

Sure, since the semantics are different.  Which is why we have the
makefile method of socket objects: for those occasions in which you want
signature-polymorphism at the expense of the overhead of adaptation.

> But you are comparing Apples to Oranges.  Java programs are written
> in certain ways with various emphases (flexibility, interfaces and
> factories).  Python programs emphasise other things (generators,
> typing).  Exceptions are expensive in Java and not used much.  They
> are "cheap" in Python and used frequently.

Generators are a reasonably recent addition to Python, and I have no
idea what you mean by stating that Python emphasizes typing more than
Java does -- I typically see far more mention of the types of everything
in Java code than in Python, where the usual duck-typing generally
obviates the need.  Python's flexibility is definitely one of its
fortes, and while duck typing obviates much of the need for explicit
interfaces, nevertheless they're getting popular in large Python
frameworks.  And factory-based design patterns are everywhere in Python,
of course; indeed, it's in Java that you see lots of 'new ThisClass'
constructs which build an instance of some hardwired concrete class --
in Python, instantiation is generally by calling, which makes it
trivially easy to arrange for a function, rather than a class, to be
called, getting factory-effect.  Do not underestimate the flexibility
you get by classes and functions being first-class objects, passed as
arguments as easily as any other, ready to call for instantiation...

In other words, I do not consider your observations to be at all well
founded; the one about exceptions is rather inapplicable to the example
codes posted so far.  If, as the OP claimed, Python is slower than Java
for disk-intensive programs, this should be easy for him to show, and I
have not seen it shown yet.


> >> The Python code is reading the entire string into memory and
> >> then writing it.
> >
> > Right, _Python_'s default.
> 
> Arguably Python's default is reading a line at a time, and it

Not for the somefile.read method -- read doesn't do lines.  You may be
thinking of iter(somefile).next instead, and I'm not sure what the Java
equivalent of _that_ one is.

> is a bad default in some circumstances (large files), just
> as the Java code was a bad way of doing anything but small
> files.

Python's default makes it trivially easy to read most files in a single
gulp, so it's appropriate in many cases; Java's makes it hard and slow
to read ANY file, so it's never appropriate.

> > The claim posted to this newsgroup, without any support nor examples
> > being given, was that Python's I/O was far slower than Java's in
> > _disk-intensive_ operations.  I'm still waiting to see any small,
> > verifiable examples of that posted on this thead.
> 
> If the language code is the same, then that claim boils down to
> the Java Native Interface vs the Python C API.  In the case of
> Java, I can see the claim having some relevance in multi-threaded
> code since Java doesn't have the GIL.

Python does, but drops it during blocking I/O operations so that the
relevance should be just about the same in both cases.


> > defaults are tuned, making Python much faster.  Great, then let those
> > who claim Java's I/O is much faster in disk intensive operation post
> > suitable examples, and we'll see.
> 
> Your timing included the overhead of starting up and shutting down
> both environments, making the rest of the measure less than
> interesting.

If the OP intended their claim to apply only to long-running programs
where the difference in environment startup/shutdown gets fully
amortized, they *MIGHT* have deigned to mention the fact.  I have seen
no such claim yet, nor as yet ANY benchmark posted that purports to
prove anything related to the original claim.

I did observe (at some point along the substantial chain of small
benchmarks I and some other posters exchanged) that the 4:1 ratio in
runtime in favour of Python exactly matched the 4:1 ratio in pagefaults,
again in favour of Python, btw.  I guess the startup/shutdown costs can
be amortized by simply looping over the filecopy operation N times.


> The idea isn't to emphasise the open source side, but rather so
> that anyone can see for themselves how it was all put together.
> If I have a business critical app, and claim it is written in
> Python but noone can see the insides then they can't really
> know too much.  The biggest thing is that they can't tell
> if they could write code like that (or even how much was written)
> to produce an app of similar functionality and complexity.

However, firms that choose not to release their business critical
applications as open source are likely to require at the very least a
non-disclosure agreement before they show you those sources, making it
impractical to use those sources to meet your wishes.

Note that even GPL would be no use here: if you do not _distribute_ your
programs, but keep them for in-house use, you keep the option to not
show anybody those programs' sources even when GPL applies.  Therefore,
the problem applies equally to all languages, even a hypothetically
GPL'd one (not that I know of any GPL-covered language in common use for
writing business critical apps).

As for your latter sentence, I've never met a programmer whose default
assumption was that they would NOT be able to write code just as good as
most anybody else's.


Alex


From autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Nov 26 03:35:42 2004
From: autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Robson)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 08:35:42 +0000
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.23.07.09.08.229463@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<zn18e7pm.fsf@telus.net> <30ijkhF31dg9sU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<oehnyvka.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.25.05.36.21.76065@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<3byxq0a1.fsf@telus.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.26.08.35.42.546040@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 17:57:44 +0000, Lenard Lindstrom wrote:

>> I believe the author of .NET is the bloke that designed Turbo Pascal, so
>> it's hardly surprising :)
> 
> Is this Andreas Heiljberg which you mentioned in an earlier posting to
> this thread?

Yes.... well the name is something like that. The similarities between
Delphi and C# are so obvious if anyone should be suing it's Borland.

VB.NET is much much closer to Delphi than it is to VB6.0.





From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Nov 23 07:35:01 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 13:35:01 +0100
Subject: Help for newbie
References: <419f06a8$0$32335$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<slrncq1so1.4m6.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
	<41a10093$0$4569$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<slrncq4gtd.5s1.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
	<39eca62c.0411222340.35d1c80f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cnvapl$ea6$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Jean-Louis Nespoulous wrote:

> Thank you very much, but I will use ZODB as a server, and from a
> distance client I'll get and save objetcts with XML-RPC. Do you think
> it will be ok?

You can't get objects using xmlrpc. At least not over language-boundaries.
Of cours you can access your python server using xmlrpc, and if thats
sufficient, ok. But you can not pass a java object and expect it to be
stored in zodb. 

And I personally wouldn't go for xmlrpc, but corba for java/python 
interoperability, but thats of course a matter of taste.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  6 17:26:47 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 23:26:47 +0100
Subject: Shortcut needed: avoiding temporary variables with regular
	expressions
References: <418d498f$0$12683$39db0f71@news.song.fi>
Message-ID: <1gmurhc.qo6t801s8j7j6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Pekka Niiranen <pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com> wrote:

> Hi there,
> 
> I am using regular expressions like this:
> 
> matcher = re.compile(r'(.*)\s(.*)', re.UNICODE)
> tmp = matcher.search(mystring)
> if tmp:
>       myvariable = tmp.group(1)
> 
> The idea is that group(1) is accessed only if
> it was found from 'mystring'. Is there a way
> to avoid the usage of 'tmp' -variable?

Yeah, quite a few recipes on the cookbook could help, starting with one
of mine, many years old now, about how to do assign-and-test together in
Python (the only use case being to transcribe faithfully an algorithm
coming from languages that focus on assign-and-test, such as Perl or C;
once you move the algorithm fully to Python, it's best to use Python
idioms, of course).

In my old recipe,, you need to have somewhere an auxiliary class and
instance thereof, such as:

class Data(object):
    def set(self, value):
        self.value = value
        return value
d = Data()

then, you can do:

if d.set(matcher.search(mystring)):
    myvariable = d.value.group(1)

This is very general and generic.  For your specific case, you could do:

try: myvariable = matcher.search(mystring).group(1)
except (AttributeError, TypeError): pass

i.e., just try to access .group even if the search results in None, and
simply catch the error that happens when you do (I think it will be an
AttributeError, but I'm not sure that holds in all versions you care
about, so I threw in a TypeError for good measure;-).


Alex


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov  8 15:04:48 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 15:04:48 -0500
Subject: Yet another Python advocacy meant for students
References: <1099933487.007129.62640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cmojgn$evg$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Sridhar R" <sridharinfinity at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1099933487.007129.62640 at z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> We are the students of Anna University and would like to share our
> thoughts on Python.  Here it is
> http://cs.annauniv.edu/~portal/wiki/index.php/Python

Very nice.  Most of us here think that adopting Python as a main language 
will give you a competitive advantage in your future careers.

Suggestion: 1)Your departments main page http://cs.annauniv.edu/ should 
link 'Anna University' to its main page http://www.annauniv.edu/.  2) I 
looked there for but did not find an explanation of 'Anna'.  Does it refers 
to a woman, your 'pennies', or something else ;-).  3) Most people around 
the world have no idea of where Chennai, TN is.  A link on the www page to 
a map with an outline of India and Tamil Nadu within it and a dot/star for 
Chennai would 'put you on the map' for those of us who are ignorant.

Terry J. Reedy
(American who has been to northern/central India and but not yet to the 
south.)





From no-mail-please at nospam.com  Mon Nov 15 10:36:55 2004
From: no-mail-please at nospam.com (Robert Oschler)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 10:36:55 -0500
Subject: Python generators in Java?
Message-ID: <ppWdnQCou6jBUQXcRVn-jA@adelphia.com>

Preamble:

- I know this is the Python forum
- I know about (and have used) Jython

I already posted this question in comp.lang.java.  But after a week I have
still not received a single reply.

One of my favorite Python features is generators.  I have to use Java for
one particular project (it happens).  I would like to have something at
least close to Python's generators for the project.

Jython won't do because last I checked it was dormant, and has been for
quite some time.  In addition, the version that it is "frozen" at  (2.1)
does not contain generators (if this is wrong on any point, *please* point
me to a URL for a current version).  I checked the mailing list archive and
except for a single recent post from a party external to the Jython project,
there hasn't been any mailing list activity since 2002.  In fact, I saw my
two unanswered posts about Jython and generators from 2002.  There was a
2.2a (alpha release) in July of 2003 with lots of warnings about using the
code in a production environment, but nothing since.

So does anyone here that has Python and Java experience have any ideas on
this?

Also, has anybody had any experience integrating CPython with Java, if it is
at all possible?

Thanks.

-- 
Robert Oschler
http://www.robotsrule.com/phpBB2/
Robot & Android Discussion Forum




From cme at lampcoders.net  Wed Nov 10 14:46:47 2004
From: cme at lampcoders.net (Christian Meissner)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:46:47 +0100
Subject: Announce: csv_xs.py
References: <BDB81C1E.1C8E%cme@lampcoders.net>
	<mailman.6229.1100114270.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <BDB82EB7.1CA7%cme@lampcoders.net>

> Can you explain what you liked about Perl's csv_xz package and/or didn't
> like about Python's csv module that motivated you to write your own class?
> 
> Thx,
> 
> Skip

I'm a native perl speaker, but at my last work i had to learn python, to
edit some zope thinks (quite difficult).

Now i wanna learn python for me and i often work with csv files with perl
but now i wanna develop some python programs for csv file working.
In this task i would extend the csv module for my needs but there i get any
errors, so it was easier for me to develop a class which is like the perl
one.

hope it is ok
Chris



From jerf at jerf.org  Sat Nov 13 04:39:19 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 04:39:19 -0500
Subject: a very newbie question about threading
References: <9c3edc58.0411121629.45652543@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.13.09.39.18.937887@jerf.org>

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:29:53 -0800, Chris Patton wrote:

> Hey Everyone. 
> 
> I've recenently stumbled upon a concept known as "threading". Can
> anyone tell me what this IS and how it is used, or show me where I can
> get information about this?

Chris S. gave you the bare-bones basic.

I'd add that with no insult intended, "threading" and "very newbie" do not
go together well. Threading is the most common source of the notorious
"heisenbug", that randomly appears and disappears, resisting capture and
elimination by even the best of 'em. It's a complicated topic that gives
even the most expert programmers pause. I'm not exaggerating in the
slightest.

Generally, unless you *know* you need them, you don't, and there are ways
around using threads. Threads are kind of like the old "goto" statements;
it isn't that the idea of "goto" is intrinsically bad, it is just that
without discipline they rapidly become more problem than solution. So
instead of "goto", we use certain special cases of them, like function
calls and loops, that behave much more nicely. Most thread uses can
equally well be satisfied with certain other "special cases" that are much
less dangerous, like the "async" module for processing multiple incoming
files(/sockets/pipes whatever), or firing off seperate processes for long
running computations.

That said, I have used them when they were the best tool for the job. But
raw threads scare me every time.



From ed at leafe.com  Mon Nov  1 08:58:28 2004
From: ed at leafe.com (Ed Leafe)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 08:58:28 -0500
Subject: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails ...
	python on ?)
In-Reply-To: <20041101120902.30033.qmail@engcorp.com>
References: <20041101120902.30033.qmail@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <1B1CCD41-2C0E-11D9-949E-003065B11E84@leafe.com>

On Nov 1, 2004, at 7:09 AM, Peter Hansen wrote:

>> Do you mean Zope?
>
> Most definitely not!  Zope is a "content management system".

	No, Zope is a web application framework. There is a product called 
'Plone' that is a content management system built on Zope, but Zope 
does quite a bit more than just content management.

      ___/
     /
    __/
   /
  ____/
  Ed Leafe
  http://leafe.com/
  http://dabodev.com/



From pwatson at redlinepy.com  Wed Nov 17 10:52:38 2004
From: pwatson at redlinepy.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:52:38 -0600
Subject: newbie question
References: <c30e885a.0411160835.35e39084@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6431.1100623812.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <301aedF2q0m75U1@uni-berlin.de>

"Jeremy Jones" <zanesdad at bellsouth.net> wrote in message 
news:mailman.6431.1100623812.5135.python-list at python.org...
> John wrote:
>
>>Can python do Shell programming or system programming as perl does?
>>Thanks.
>>
>>John
>>
> Yes.  The only problem is that the perpetual migraine you have from doing 
> Perl and shell will quickly go away.  So, if you're into pain, stick with 
> Perl and shell.  If you want relief, come to Python.
>
> Seriously, though, Python is an excellent language for doing sysadmin type 
> tasks. (I'm assuming that's kind of what you wanted?)  Most sysadmin type 
> tasks are in modules whereas with Perl, they're cluttering the toplevel 
> namespace (I don't think Perl has the concept of namespace, but you get 
> the drift).  So, not knowing what you want to do, you may want to checkout 
> the os module in Python (I've found os.path.* to be specifically helpful). 
> You may also want to checkout the shutil module.
> Jeremy

While I usually use Python, I must admit that doing:
    $s = `ls -al $thefilename`
seems easier and clearer than:
    import os
    s = os.popen("ls -al %s" % thefilename) 




From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 17:47:45 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:47:45 GMT
Subject: regular expressions and internationalization (WAS: permuting
 letters...)
In-Reply-To: <x7sm789sml.fsf@handshake.de>
References: <67lld8kr76.fsf@aster.homelinux.net>
	<34Skd.24295$KJ6.17501@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4195217c$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<mailman.6313.1100288445.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3B8ld.24947$KJ6.15770@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.6316.1100290534.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<x7sm789sml.fsf@handshake.de>
Message-ID: <5yQmd.99846$HA.82149@attbi_s01>

Dieter Maurer wrote:
> Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> writes on Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:15:28 +0000 (UTC):
> >
> > Is there any way to match \w but not \d?
> 
> It is:  r'(?!\d)\w'

Yeah, I guess you could use negative lookahead assertions too.  My 
proposed solution to the problem discussed in this thread:

 >>> re.findall(r'[^\W\d_]{4,}', 'asdg1dfs _asfd s adfsa')
['asdg', 'asfd', 'adfsa']

A solution using a negative lookahead assertion:

 >>> re.findall(r'(?:(?![\d_])\w){4,}', 'asdg1dfs _asfd s adfsa')
['asdg', 'asfd', 'adfsa']

This seems a fair bit more verbose (and IMHO harder to read) than the 
solution I proposed, but perhaps you had a clearer version in mind?

I tend to shy away from lookahead assertions because IMHO there's 
usually an easier way.  They are occasionally useful though...

Steve


From alban at magproductions.nl  Mon Nov  8 08:19:19 2004
From: alban at magproductions.nl (Alban Hertroys)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 14:19:19 +0100
Subject: psycopg, transactions and multiple cursors
In-Reply-To: <cmnqpk$2gh$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
References: <cmnqpk$2gh$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
Message-ID: <cmnroq$raf$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>

Alban Hertroys wrote:
> Attached is a simplified example (the except's are a bit blunt, I know) 
> of what I'm trying to do. In reality, the different cursors are 
> sometimes run in differeent threads, or they're nested, which is why I 
> can't use the same cursor for all queries.

I suppose the actual error message would be useful too (Doh!):

 > python transaction.py
{'id': 1L}
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "transaction.py", line 40, in ?
     cursor2.execute("INSERT INTO y (x_id) VALUES (%s)" % row["id"])
psycopg.IntegrityError: ERROR:  insert or update on table "y" violates 
foreign key constraint "$1"
DETAIL:  Key (x_id)=(1) is not present in table "x".

INSERT INTO y (x_id) VALUES (1)


From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 20 09:14:18 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:14:18 -0500
Subject: Reading Formatted Text File
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6645.1100957645.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6645.1100957645.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <419f5004$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

Kevin McBrearty wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> I'm trying to read a formatted text of strings and
> floats.  I have looked through previous posts and
> couldn't deciper a good method.  I'm new to python so
> any suggestions would be helpful.

Here is a solution using pyparsing (http://pyparsing.sourceforge.net).
The result is a nested list structure containing the original data in a 
structured form
blocktype
     list of facets
         normal vector
         list of vertices

Kent


from pyparsing import *
import string

point = Literal( "." )
e     = CaselessLiteral( "E" )
fnumber = Combine( Word( "+-"+nums, nums ) +
                    Optional( point + Optional( Word( nums ) ) ) +
                    Optional( e + Word( "+-"+nums, nums ) ) )
fnumber.setParseAction( lambda s,l,t: [ float(t[0]) ] )

triple = Group(fnumber + fnumber + fnumber)

normal = Suppress('normal') + triple
vertex = Suppress('vertex') + triple

facet = Suppress('facet') + normal + Suppress('outer loop') + 
Group(OneOrMore(vertex)) + Suppress('endloop')

blockType = Word(string.uppercase)

solid = Suppress('solid') + blockType + Group(OneOrMore(facet))

data = '''
solid SIMPLEBLOCK
   facet normal 0.000000e+00 0.000000e+00 -1.000000e+00
     outer loop
       vertex 1.000000e+00 -1.000000e+00 0.000000e+00
       vertex -1.000000e+00 -1.000000e+00 0.000000e+00
       vertex -1.000000e+00 1.000000e+00 0.000000e+00
     endloop
   endfacet
'''

print solid.parseString(data)


prints:
['SIMPLEBLOCK', [[0.0, 0.0, -1.0], [[1.0, -1.0, 0.0], [-1.0, -1.0, 0.0], 
[-1.0, 1.0, 0.0]]]]

> 
> Regards,
>         Kevin
> 
> solid SIMPLEBLOCK
>   facet normal 0.000000e+00 0.000000e+00 -1.000000e+00
>     outer loop
>       vertex 1.000000e+00 -1.000000e+00 0.000000e+00
>       vertex -1.000000e+00 -1.000000e+00 0.000000e+00
>       vertex -1.000000e+00 1.000000e+00 0.000000e+00
>     endloop
>   endfacet
> 
> 
> 		
> __________________________________ 
> Do you Yahoo!? 
> The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! 
> http://my.yahoo.com 
>  
> 


From lbates at syscononline.com  Wed Nov 17 11:12:39 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:12:39 -0600
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
 number of output arguments)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6468.1100667418.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6468.1100667418.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <XM6dnRvI4aL25QbcRVn-rA@comcast.com>

I think what you want is :

def analysis(self, morf):
     filename, statements = self.analyze_morf(morf)
     missing = []
     for line in statements:
         if not self.cexecuted[filename].has_key(line):
             missing.append(line)

     return (filename, statements, missing,
             self.format_lines(statements, missing))

There is complete symmetry.  You can return as many
"things" as you want.  All Jeremy is saying is
that it the tuple/list of things gets complex, you
should probably refactor your code and make the
"things" into a class with the return values as
attributes.

Larry Bates



Robert Brewer wrote:
> Greg Ewing wrote:
> 
>>Jeremy Bowers wrote:
>>
>>>Generally, returning a tuple is either a sign that your return value
>>>should be wrapped up in a class, or the function is doing too much.
>>
>>While I suspect you may be largely right, I
>>find myself wondering why this should be so. We
>>don't seem to have any trouble with multiple inputs
>>to a function, so why should multiple outputs be
>>a bad thing? What is the reason for this asymmetry?
>>
>>Perhaps it has something to do with positional vs.
>>keyword arguments.
> 
> 
> Hm. I'd guess it has more to do with arguments at all. That is, a
> function has an input argument list which is metadata with respect to
> the function body. There's no such "output argument list", at least not
> specified in code. That's the fundamental asymmetry. Maybe we should
> support:
> 
> def analysis(self, morf):
>     filename, statements = self.analyze_morf(morf)
>     missing = []
>     for line in statements:
>         if not self.cexecuted[filename].has_key(line):
>             missing.append(line)
> end analysis(filename, statements, missing,
>              self.format_lines(statements, missing))
> 
> 
> /ducking and running ;)
> 
> 
> Robert Brewer
> MIS
> Amor Ministries
> fumanchu at amor.org


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Mon Nov 15 14:54:23 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 14:54:23 -0500
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <4198e036$0$289$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<boKdncuh1ZBxbgrcRVn-gA@giganews.com> <L0Tld.2114$nj.1155@lakeread01>
	<41985663$0$272$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<ZR1md.4916$nj.2331@lakeread01>
	<4198cc5f$0$258$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.6383.1100535480.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4198e036$0$289$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <1f7befae04111511541a26e236@mail.gmail.com>

[Max M]
> Shure. I wasn't bitching. I just tried the Window installer yesterday
> evening, so I haven't really had time to comment. But I crosspost this
> to z3dev (via gmane), and vill continue the discussion there.
> 
> I tried to follow the instructions in the Zope3Book at:
...

Ya, I sure agree it's not obvious what to do on Windows!  There have
been detailed Windows instructions since X3 alpha 1, but subsequent
release pages didn't point to them.  I see Jim updated the 3.0.0-final
release page to include them now:

<http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/ZopeX3300>

Start from that next time, and it should go much easier.


From mr_ravi_patil at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 17 03:57:23 2004
From: mr_ravi_patil at yahoo.com (SoftwareTester)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 00:57:23 -0800
Subject: psSerial: how to write a single byte value to the serial port?
Message-ID: <5a050156.0411170057.6c27a6a4@posting.google.com>

http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/ 
example shows how to write string to serial port.


#Open port 0 at "9600,8,N,1", no timeout

>>> import serial
>>> ser = serial.Serial(0) #open first serial 
>>> ser.write("hello") #write a string
>>> ser.close() #close port

how do i write a single byte value to the serial port?


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Fri Nov 19 15:56:30 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:56:30 +0100
Subject: Question about thread
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6607.1100881214.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <1100875373.911763@eng-ser6>
	<306ic5F2svtsdU1@uni-berlin.de>	<1100879122.755150@eng-ser4>
	<mailman.6607.1100881214.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cnlmt0$jea$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Craig Ringer wrote:

>>When I do it line by line in python's console, I have similar result to youl.
>>But when I try to run it in a file, say:
>>
>>python demo.py
>>
>>It just returns me nothing. I have no idea on this right now...
> 
> You need to cause the main thread to wait on the child threads until
> they've all finished, otherwise - as Peter Hickman just mentioned - your
> script will terminate and all threads will end. Ten seconds on Google
> found this:
> 
> http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/1364

Are you sure? I keep observing that child threads continue its execution 
until completion even if I do nothing in main thread. Consider this example:

import random, time
from threading import Thread

class Worker(Thread):

     def __init__(self, name):
         Thread.__init__(self)
         self.name = name
         print 'thread %s created' % self.name

     def run(self):
         amt = random.randint(1, 4)
         print 'thread %s waiting %d seconds' % (self.name, amt)
         time.sleep(amt)
         print 'thread %s finished' % self.name

     def __del__(self):
         print 'thread %s is being destroyed' % self.name

if __name__ == '__main__':
     for i in range(10):
         t = Worker('%.04d' % (i + 1, ))
         t.start()
     print 'finished creating threads'

Even after printing "finished creating threads" all spawned threads 
continue its execution up to final "thread nnnn is being destroyed", so 
I think there's no need to take any special action (unless it's Python 
on iSeries, buy this is another story) to wait for completion.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/ | http://www.zgodowie.org/


From changli_to at hotmail.com  Sat Nov 20 01:40:32 2004
From: changli_to at hotmail.com (Chang LI)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 22:40:32 -0800
Subject: Python with Apache 2.0
References: <89cc6e1f.0411190632.2976b3e1@posting.google.com>
	<306sikF2sueanU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <89cc6e1f.0411192240.456eb9bb@posting.google.com>

Damjan <gdamjan at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<306sikF2sueanU1 at uni-berlin.de>...
> > Does python support threads safely along with Apache 2.0 in web
> > applications.
> 
> Are you talking about mod_python?
> If so, then yes. But note that Apache threads entering the python
> interpreter (via mod_python) will be serialized on the GIL.

Yes, use mod_python. I plan to use Python to replace PHP and other
languages. The low efficient CGI will be replaced by embedded Python
program. Apache 2.0 is faviority becuase the threads are must have
features.


From sadiztik07 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 10 05:25:59 2004
From: sadiztik07 at yahoo.com (HellCat)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 02:25:59 -0800
Subject: Looking for a mail server with Python backend.
Message-ID: <9832c909.0411100225.39ac124f@posting.google.com>

Can anyone here point me to a mail server with a
Python backend? The Java Apache Mail Enterprise server
is for Java, is there a comparable mail server for Python?
I could install JAMES but I prefer to use Python rather
than Java.

I am going to use it in a small (less than 500 users)
enterprise setting so my requirements are not that strict.

Thanks in advance.


From adsheehan at eircom.net  Fri Nov 26 10:01:27 2004
From: adsheehan at eircom.net (Alan Sheehan)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 07:01:27 -0800
Subject: Protecting Python source
Message-ID: <f4a45085.0411260701.5859bf43@posting.google.com>

Hi pythonistas,

I am looking for methods of deploying applications with end users so
that the python code is tamper proof. What are my options ?

I understand I can supply .pyc or .pyo files but they can easily be
reverse engineered I am told.

Is it possible to load the scripts from zip files where the zip files
are password protected ?

Any other ideas ?

Many thanks,

Alan


From bill.mill at gmail.com  Sat Nov 13 01:16:29 2004
From: bill.mill at gmail.com (Bill  Mill)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 22:16:29 -0800
Subject: numarray + cPickle problem
Message-ID: <1100326589.669597.252570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hello all,

I've pickled a numarray array object using cPickle like so:

pickle = cPickle.Pickler(fout, -1)
pickle.dump((myarray, list1, list2))

and this seems to work fine, until I try to load the array back into
memory:

up = cPickle.Unpickler(fin)
myarray, list1, list2 = up.load()

which causes an odd traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "do_lsi.py", line 7, in ?
data, artists, users = up.load()
ImportError: No module named generic

To which I say, huh? There is indeed a numarray.generic module - but
numarray is already included into this file. I tried including
numarray.generic, or "from numarray import generic" or "from
numarray.generic import *", but none of those did anything.

Anybody able to guess what is happeneing here? Anybody that can explain
the unpickling process in greater detail for me so that I may
understand it better?

Peace
Bill Mill
bill.mill at gmail.com



From alban at magproductions.nl  Mon Nov  8 09:04:21 2004
From: alban at magproductions.nl (Alban Hertroys)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 15:04:21 +0100
Subject: psycopg, transactions and multiple cursors
In-Reply-To: <cmnso7$iih$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <cmnqpk$2gh$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<cmnroq$raf$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<cmnso7$iih$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cmnud5$uph$1@news4.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> As the error is about integrity violation, its safe to assume that the
> problem is postgresql related.

Well, actually it merely shows that the queries aren't in the same 
transaction, or that there was never a transaction to begin with. That's 
what I hoped to illustrate with this example; Apparently, I could have 
been more clear...

> And changes made in one transaction can't be seen in another until they are
> commited _and_ the other transaction is opened after the first one is
> commited - that makes sense, as otherwise the second transaction could
> create references that then are invalidated by rolling back the first
> transaction, creating undefined state.

Of course, that's on of the reasons to have transactions; to make sure 
that 'other' users don't see data that cannot be guaranteed to be valid yet.

> Now looking at your code, one sees that BEGIN is called on the cursor1 - so
> the transaction boundaries are around cursor1, thus they are not visible to

AFAIK, you can't open a transaction w/o using a cursor; You need a query 
that says "BEGIN;".
You can commit a connection object, however. It would be nice to be able 
to start a transaction on a connection object, but then you still could 
only have one transaction per connection... :(

This would make it impossible to have nested loops of queries inside a 
transaction (the cursor gets repositioned in the inner fetch of the loop 
and the outer fetch looses track of which record it was positioned at).

Maybe the transaction shouldn't be closed until the cursor is closed, 
even if other cursors are opened (in the same transaction) before that 
happens.
Aside from that, it turns out that the first query gets committed, even 
though the transaction should have failed. This probably just indicates 
that the transaction indeed is closed too soon, however, I didn't tell 
it to commit. Shouldn't it issue a rollback instead? [This would 
probably confuse people, but is it correct to do otherwise? Shouldn't it 
rollback if you don't commit?]

I know PostgreSQL can do transactions on nested cursors, I have used 
that now and then in stored procedures (pl/pgsql).

  > So the cursor2 seems to be using its own connection, thus its own
> transaction. This is also in the README for psycopg.

So that's why I couldn't find the documentation... (Though the DBAPI 2.0 
document linked from the Python site is rather helpful).
It would probably be nice to have those documents on the psycopg site 
somewhere... (Or if they are, put clear pointers to them from the main 
site - I've never been able to find them).

> As I don't have psycopg running here, I can't experiment myself, but I think
> you should use cursor1 for all of your sql statements that belong to one
> transaction. 

I cross my fingers that such may not be necessary.

Thanks for helping.


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Nov 24 09:00:02 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:00:02 -0500
Subject: is int(round(val)) safe?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6727.1101240888.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <rowen-8AF206.11131622112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>	<cntjpk$qc2$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>	<DWsod.378073$wV.108786@attbi_s54>	<cntmi2$6rf$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>	<mailman.6717.1101179702.5135.python-list@python.org>	<zIHod.2026$QR.1966@lakeread01>
	<mailman.6727.1101240888.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <co2441$cml$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Tim Peters wrote:
> [Steve Holden]
>>Note, however, that I don't believe it's guaranteed that the contents of
>>d will turn out the same in different Python versions. 
 >
> If you do
> 
> d[k] = v
> 
> when d already has a key equal to k, its associated value is replaced,
> but it's really not defined whether the old key is replaced or
> retained.  All known implementations of Python retain the old key in
> this case.
> 
> The other *seeming* ambiguity here isn't one:  whether, in {a: b, c:
> d}, a or c is added first.  Python requires "left to right"
> evaluation, so that's actually defined -- although this one may be
> more clearly defined in Guido's head than by the docs.

Leading to very interesting results like this:

 >>> d = { 1: 'a', 1.0: 'b' }
 >>> d
{1: 'b'}

Perhaps unexpected, but clearly explained by the comments above...

-Peter


From fumanchu at amor.org  Sun Nov  7 10:42:21 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 07:42:21 -0800
Subject: remove assert statement (Was: Re: PEP new assert idiom)
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3245187@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Gerrit wrote:
> In my opinion, assert is almost useless. It can sometimes be 
> useful for
> debugging purposes, but beyond that, it isn't. The exception raised by
> 'assert' is always AssertionError. That is a major 
> disadvantage, because
> it's not specific. If a method I'm calling would raise an 
> AssertionError
> in some cases, and I want to catch it, I'm catching too much. 
> Creating a
> new exception-class and raising that one is better because of this.
> 
> I don't see the use of a statement like
> "assert isinstance(message, basestring)". It's by far the most common
> use of assert: some assertions about the types of the 
> arguments. This is
> at best redundant. In the case of warnings.py, it's followed by
> re.compile(message, ...). Removing the assertion in this 
> example would result
> in three differences:
>     - The error raised would be TypeError, not 
> AssertionError. Therefore
>       it's more specific and thus easier to catch.
>     - The error would me raised by the re module, not warnings module
>     - The error would be "first argument must be string or compiled
>       pattern" instead of "message must be a string". Therefore, the
>       assertion makes it impossible to pass a compiled pattern instead
>       of a string.
> 
> Duck typing eliminates the use of assert.
> 
> In my opinion, assert should be deprecated and then removed in Py3K:
> assertions are redundant, unspecific, and conflict with the philosophy
> of duck typing and EAFP.
> 
> What do others think of this?

Whole-hearted +1. Let's get it into PEP 3000.

There are cases where isinstance is useful (as you point out, when you
wish to raise a more meaningful error of your own Exception subclass).
But you don't need an assert keyword for that either. ;)


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Nov 10 12:04:25 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:04:25 -0600
Subject: [development doc updates]
References: <mailman.6215.1100101627.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41923be3$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <10p4igs3vu33o60@news.supernews.com>


"Kent Johnson" <kent3737 at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:41923be3$1_2 at newspeer2.tds.net...
> Fred L. Drake wrote:
>> The development version of the documentation has been updated:
>>
>>     http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/
>>
>> Please review the tables and report any strange presentations; be sure
>> to include the specific browser (including platform and version!) in
>> your report.
>
> Do you wath the reports here or in the bug tracker? Anyway here is one:
>
> Using Firefox 1.0 and Firefox 1.0PR on Win2K, the tables are missing the 
> left and right borders. For example in Section 2.3.6, the table of 
> operations for sequence types, in the 2.3.4 docs I have a black border on 
> left, right and bottom; in the dev docs it is only on the bottom.

Same problem on Win XP SP2 with Firefox 1.0PR.

John Roth
>
> Kent 



From danperl at rogers.com  Thu Nov 11 20:34:58 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:34:58 -0500
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<c718a6cf.0411061137.683823ec@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6022.1099784038.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<c718a6cf.0411101051.3c8935fd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <N7adnSvfiJbUjgncRVn-og@rogers.com>

Maurice,

As a member of this group, I regret the comments that you got from 
"Y2KYZFR1", whatever his name is and whatever his real email address is. 
Please do not let it affect you and please do not let it affect your view of 
the group in general.

Dan

"Y2KYZFR1" <jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:c718a6cf.0411101051.3c8935fd at posting.google.com...
> Maurice LING <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote in message 
> news:<mailman.6022.1099784038.5135.python-list at python.org>...
>> >
>> > dude that "comparision" from twistedmatrix you refrence is ANCIENT!!!
>>
>> I am wondering the impact when IBM decided that the base memory to not
>> exceed 64kb, in the late 1960s...
>>
>> I suppose more experienced people in this list can agree that certain
>> decisions made can be almost an edict. So, there is a re-building
>> process every now and then, hopefully to by-pass such edicts. Python
>> itself is already such an example.
>>
>> >
>> > it is comparing versions that are YEARS out of date and use!
>>
>> Are the codebase of Python 1.5.2 and Java 1.1 totally replaced and
>> deprecated?
>
> yes it has, in both cases : proof again that you don't understand
> enough to comprehend why your question is irrelevant, and that you
> can't understand the answer as such.
>
> you can't compare something from so many years ago to each other and
> then EXTRAPOLATE the results to NOW.
>
> It would be like comparing a 1965 Mustang to a 1965 Corvette and then
> coming to the conclusion that you could EXTRAPLATE those results to
> compare the 2005 models. Just completely lacking in any understanding
> of scientific theory.
>
>> Lisp compiler is the 1st compiler to be created (according to the
>> Red-Dragon book, I think) and almost all others are created by
>> bootstrapping to LISP compiler. What are the implications of design
>> decisions made in LISP compiler then affecting our compilers today? I
>> don't know. I repeat myself, I DO NOT KNOW.
>>
>> >
>> > you are just trolling or your don't know enough to understand the
>> > answer to your question which is way to vague to be answered, as there
>> > is no real correct answer.
>>
>> Certainly I do not have 15 PhDs in computer science or computating
>> mathematics...... I suppose there are some syntax error in your
>> statement to allow me to parse it completely. "too vague", not "to 
>> vague".
>
> an this just proves that YOU are irrelvant also, go troll somewhere
> else. PLONK
>
>> Thanks
>> maurice 




From minho_chae at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 13 13:26:29 2004
From: minho_chae at yahoo.com (Minho Chae)
Date: 13 Nov 2004 10:26:29 -0800
Subject: Creating combination of sequences
Message-ID: <7dc80c2.0411131026.c4cf2e@posting.google.com>

Hello, python lovers!!

I'm trying to create combinations of sequences.

For example, if the sequence is 'acgt' and the length is 8,
then I would like to have 4^8 results such as
'aaaaaaaa', 'aaaaaaac', 'aaaaaaag', 'aaaaaaat', ... 'tttttttt'

Is there an easy way doing this?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.


Minho


From finite.automaton at gmail.com  Tue Nov  9 14:59:32 2004
From: finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 9 Nov 2004 11:59:32 -0800
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<87d5ysbkq9.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<4b39d922.0411051555.24f31663@posting.google.com>
	<tyffz3j2mi2.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <4b39d922.0411091159.3b6e2682@posting.google.com>

Hehe.  I'm really not trying to start a flame war, honest :P 
I don't even like Java.  

My point was just that it's sort of misleading to say "wxPython is
faster than Swing, therefore Python tends to be faster than Java for
all things".


Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote in message news:<tyffz3j2mi2.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch>...
> finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse) writes:
> 
> > Yes, wxPython is typically quicker than swing.  It's not fair to use
> > this in a generic Python-vs-Java speed shootout, though, since
> > wxPython is just a wrapper around wxWidgets' C++ code; you're really
> > comparing C++ vs. Java here.
> 
> And Python's list.sort is just a wrapper around C code. So I guess
> that it's not fair to use that, or any other Python built-in function,
> in a Python-vs-X speed shootout. This would mean you can't use Python
> classes in such a shootout either, as type.__new__ and object.__new__
> are both also merely wrappers around C code ... not to mention Python
> dictionaries: wrappers around C code which are used in just about
> every name lookup in Python.
> 
> So, the conclusion is that it's not fair to use Python in a
> Python-vs-X speed shootout. 
> 
> I rather like that conclusion :-)


From ncoghlan at email.com  Tue Nov 30 07:58:16 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 22:58:16 +1000
Subject: Restricted Execution on the cheap
In-Reply-To: <-OOdncnDLL2e1jHcRVn-hw@lmi.net>
References: <-OOdncnDLL2e1jHcRVn-hw@lmi.net>
Message-ID: <41ac6e67$0$25782$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

David Pokorny wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Suppose that one wants to set up a machine to accept python code from,
> say, arbitrary email, and run it safely. Would the following
> (somewhat draconian) precautions be sufficient?

In short, no. Python's introspection capabilities kill you. There are too many 
ways to spell things to be certain all the loopholes are closed.

For instance, take a look at the result of:

   type(sys.stdout)

Sure, you can add 'type' to the banned list, but eventually the banned list is 
so long, writing a useful program is damn near impossible. 'chr' and '__dict__', 
for instance, would almost certainly have to be on the banned list, otherwise:

   key1 = ''.join([chr(x) for x in [95, 95, 98, 117, 105, 108, 116, 105, 110, 
95, 95]])
   key2 = ''.join([chr(x) for x in [102, 105, 108, 101]])
   sys.modules[key1].__dict__[key2]

It isn't accidental that Bastion and rexec got deprecated - the developers just 
can't guarantee that the modules are actually providing adequate protection.

A chroot() jail, setuid() to some permission-less sandbox user and your 
monitoring daemon are likely to get you a lot further.

Regards,
Nick.

P.S. Both examples above are bizarre ways of spelling 'file', for anyone who 
can't be bothered figuring it out.


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Nov 22 10:07:24 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:07:24 +0100
Subject: Help for a newbie in Python and ZODB
References: <39eca62c.0411212341.330dabdc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.22.15.07.23.646763@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:41:39 -0800 schrieb Jean-Louis Nespoulous:

> Hello everybody,
> I am in charge to develop a system who will analyse a network, type
> Three-Tier Architecture. I would like to use ZODB or (exclusive)
> PostgreSQL. But I don't know witch one to use?

> Someone could help me
> and tell me what are the differencies between ZODB and PostgreSQL?

PostgreSQL is a relational database. You store data in tables which
have columns and rows. You access it with SQL. PostgreSQL supports
inheritance, but you still need some mapping between your objects and the
database. You can access postgres with any programming language.

> My system will be developped in Java. If I use ZODB how I'll make the
> transition with Python?

If you use Java, you can't use ZODB. 

ZODB stores pickled (serialized) objects.
Here you don't need a mapping between objects and database.
SQL makes no sense with ZODB. The query language is python.

HTH,
 Thomas



From timh at zute.net  Tue Nov  9 01:09:53 2004
From: timh at zute.net (Tim Hoffman)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 14:09:53 +0800
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
In-Reply-To: <2vaj5oF2jl25lU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com> <2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<60dfb6f6.0411050715.601f381f@posting.google.com>
	<2v82u3F2dhtcpU1@uni-berlin.de> <cmoqn9$cbf$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<2vaj5oF2jl25lU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <41905f33@news.highway1.com.au>

Greg Ewing wrote:
> JCM wrote:
> 
>> I think both liquids and gases are considered fluids.  Liquid Typing
>> and Gaseous Typing would be sub-categories.
> 
> 
> Hmmm. So maybe with liquid typing, your data sloshes
> around in the bottom of your address space, whereas
> with gaseous typing, it expands to fill all available
> memory...
> 
Continuing in this theme, does this mean that phase transition (between 
solids and fluids ) typing, is typing of an indeterminate nature ;-)

Oops now that we are on the slippery slope of metaphors ;-) do we class
super cooled liquid types as ones that can be co-oerced but just take a
very long time ;-)

Tim





From autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Nov 26 03:33:40 2004
From: autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Robson)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 08:33:40 +0000
Subject: The use of :
References: <89cc6e1f.0411251858.40b6bbc7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.26.08.33.40.219098@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 18:58:16 -0800, Chang LI wrote:

> Some statements use : in the tail such as while x > 0: and def func():
> What is the meaning and the usage of : in Python?

It, together with the indent, identifies a block of code.  Most languages
use either a terminating keyword like "WEND" "ENDIF" "NEXT" to identify
the end of a group of instructions, or alternatively a bracketing syntax
such as {} begin..end or $( $)

So these are roughly equivalent. The difference with the Python version
(the last one) is without the indentation it won't work - the indentation
does the job of WEND, { }  and begin .. end

WHILE I > 0
 PRINT I 
 I = I-1
WEND

while (i > 0)
{
	printf("%d\n",i);
	i = i-1;
}

while i > 0 do
  begin
	writeln i;
	i := i - 1;
  end;

while i > 0:
	print i
	i = i - 1

this code, unlike most other languages is different to the one above.
Changing the indentation actually changes what the code does.

while i > 0:
	print i
i = i - 1

it is equivalent to C

while (i > 0)
{
	printf("%d\n",i);
}
i = i-1;




From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Nov 16 12:55:34 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:55:34 -0600
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <du7mzxiruej.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>	<20041114200132.20649.1982992758.divmod.quotient.5222@ohm>	<mailman.6390.1100553070.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gnbf8z.mirt8m687hvbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<du7mzxiruej.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <419A3F16.6070401@colorstudy.com>

Ville Vainio wrote:
>>>>>>"Alex" == Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
> 
> 
>     Alex> where builtin 'adapt' does protocol adaptation.  On the
>     Alex> other hand, if the semantics of those 'as' clauses were
>     Alex> something like:
> 
>     Alex> def x(y, z):
>     Alex> if type(y) is not foo: raise TypeError, 'y must be foo'
>     Alex> if type(z) is not bar: raise TypeError, 'z must be bar'
>     Alex> <body of x>
> 
>     Alex> then that's the day I move to Ruby, or any other language
>     Alex> that remained halfway sensible (if any).
> 
> Even if it allowed portions of the code to be statically compiled to
> reach "native" performance? Or if it allowed resolving ambiguous
> situations in type inference? Type declarations would of course be
> optional, and they could be a big win esp. for non-cpython
> implementations of the language. Beats reverting to C#/whatever for
> situations where you want good JITtability. In CPython "adaptation"
> might be the way to go, of course, but that would still enable the
> same code to run on different variants of Python.

I would think of it differently.  I don't see a need for static typing 
to deal with the outside world.  There's always a bridge when 
communicating with the outside world, and if that bridge is smart enough 
it should be okay.  You can annotate things (I think type annotation for 
PyObjC was one of the motivations behind the decorator syntax), that's 
different from static typing, and is just a guide for coercion.

And obviously foreign functions cannot take arbitrary arguments. 
Nothing in Python can, there's always limits; though foreign functions 
may not accept immitation objects (e.g., list subclasses), and that's 
just part of the API.  That's why people tend to create wrappers around 
non-Python libraries.

I can see some performance advantages to static typing.  I don't think 
it would be worth it for any external interface, but for internal 
interfaces it might be worth it, where there's less of a concern about 
flexibility.  In that case, decorators might be all that's necessary, e.g.:

@constrain_types(a=float, b=str, c=int:
def foo(a, b):
    c = 1
    ...

Imagining an implementation of constrain_types that knew how to pick 
apart a function's code, apply the type information and optimizations, 
and put it back together.  It really doesn't need pretty syntax, because 
it's not a pretty operation (though the decorator syntax is actually 
reasonably attractive).  It would be nice if this applied both to 
arguments and local variables.

Now, I could imagine this turning into a Cargo Cult programming 
practice, where people mindlessly apply this type information despite 
there being no reason or performance gain, thus adding weight to their 
code and reducing flexibility.  But then, I'd rather work under the 
expectation that the programmer will do the right thing.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Nov 18 02:29:06 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 02:29:06 -0500
Subject: SQL Server stored prcedures with output parameters
In-Reply-To: <HHWmd.10924$nj.1324@lakeread01>
References: <HHWmd.10924$nj.1324@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <GcYmd.10930$nj.5627@lakeread01>

Steve Holden wrote:

> Has anyone, with any driver whatsoever, managed to retrieve output 
> parameters from a SQL Server stored procedure? I've just been rather 
> embarrassed to find out it's not as easy as it might seem, and people 
> are saying bad things about Python as a result :-(
> 
> mx.ODBC, which I regard as a highly-capable module, does not support the 
> callproc() API, and suggests use of the ODBC call format. It has caveats 
> in (some of) the documentation implying that output parameters cannot be 
> handled due to their indeterminate memory requirements, however.
> 
> The adodbapi module does have a stored procedure call in its unit tests, 
> and manages to pass that test, but when I call my own stored procedure 
> (which retrieves columns into the output parameters rather than using 
> SET to establish their values) I get back whatever value I supplied as 
> the output parameter rather than what the stored procedure is returning.
> 
> So, can anyone help me to fulfill what must be a very common database 
> requirement?
> 
> regards
>  Steve

Hmmm, following up, added another test to adodbapi to retrieve a value 
from a table into an output parameter it works, so this puts the 
suspicion on to the stored procedure. Since this was written by the 
client I'll take a look at it later (when I'm back in the office) and 
see what the problem might be.

happily-talking-away-to-myself-ly y'rs  - steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From rajiv at cbmi.pitt.edu  Mon Nov  1 13:32:30 2004
From: rajiv at cbmi.pitt.edu (Wadhwa, Rajiv)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 13:32:30 -0500 
Subject: Reading data in lists: Error
Message-ID: <09D04633DAED5F489FFEB6A0EAF22C16EAFACD@pikachu.health.pitt.edu>

Hello,

 

Saw your name and address on internet regarding a python problem. I am a
medical doctor in US taking some Python classes. WE have a problem where we
are supposed to find a 'term' (substring) in a list. 

 

Format is:

 

[ [ as, fe kd]. [dr ft js] ...]]

 

Is there a way that this words or 'parts' of them( e.g. 'dr' ) can be read
from this and then the answer is supposed to write the complete list from
where that word or parof it I coming from.

 

Any input would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

rajiv

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From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Nov 11 15:37:26 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:37:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: I don't quite get this "string".find()
References: <mailman.6274.1100201807.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<opshb098fw1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
Message-ID: <loom.20041111T213100-901@post.gmane.org>

Caleb Hattingh <caleb1 <at> telkomsa.net> writes:
> 
> I don't know why the function was set up this way.  However, an empty  
> string can be found in an infinite number of places within any other  
> string.

Infinite might be an exaggeration.  Since there are only a finite number of
indices into a string (len(s) + 1), there are only a finite number of places an
empty sting may be found in any given string:

>>> s = 'abc'
>>> s.find('')
0
>>> s.find('', 1)
1
>>> s.find('', 2)
2
>>> s.find('', 3)
3
>>> s.find('', 4)
-1

You can't, say, find the empty string somewhere between indices 1 and 2.


> Also, if you want to check whether a string is empty, I do
> 
> >>> "test" == ""
> False

An empty string evaluates to False in a boolean context, so you probably don't
usually want to actually test like this.  A couple of options:

>>> s = ''
>>> bool(s)
False

>>> s = ''
>>> if s:
... 	print 'not empty'
... else:
... 	print 'empty'
... 	
empty

My suspicion is that any time you actually test against an empty string, you're
probably doing this in the context of an if statement or a while loop, so you
can simply use the string directly instead of testing anything.

Steve



From ncoghlan at email.com  Fri Nov 26 10:38:00 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 01:38:00 +1000
Subject: Protecting Python source
In-Reply-To: <f4a45085.0411260701.5859bf43@posting.google.com>
References: <f4a45085.0411260701.5859bf43@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41a74dd9$0$25780$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Alan Sheehan wrote:
> Hi pythonistas,
> 
> I am looking for methods of deploying applications with end users so
> that the python code is tamper proof. What are my options ?
> 
> I understand I can supply .pyc or .pyo files but they can easily be
> reverse engineered I am told.

If all you want to prevent is casual user tinkering, just shipping compiled 
bytecode is probably enough. (yes it *can* be decompiled, but a casual user 
isn't going to bother, any more than they bother disassembling standard binaries).

For slightly greater obfuscation, push the key parts you wish to obscure into a 
C/C++ extension module.

There's nothing to be done to stop the determined cracker, though, as anyone who 
can effectively reverse engineer pure C++ programs is going to be able to figure 
out how to interpret .pyc files pretty quickly.

> Is it possible to load the scripts from zip files where the zip files
> are password protected ?

Since the interpreter needs to read your zipfile, there are potential problems 
with that. I believe it could be done, though. You'd need a C extension module 
which knew the password and installed a custom import hook to handle opening the 
  zip file. And disassembling the extension module would also give an attacker 
the password, thus allowing them access to the zipfile.

So, as Gerhard said, it really depends on what you mean by "tamper proof".

Cheers,
Nick.


From DesertLinux at netscape.net  Tue Nov 30 15:55:24 2004
From: DesertLinux at netscape.net (Byron)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:55:24 GMT
Subject: comment out more than 1 line at once?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6909.1101807709.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6909.1101807709.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <075rd.8066$NU3.5188@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Marc Boeren wrote:
> Well, you could fake it by doing
> 
>     """
>     block of code here is commented out
>     """

"""
Yes, this is generally how it is done in python.  <grin>
"""

Byron
---


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 15 02:47:02 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:47:02 GMT
Subject: range and wx co - ords
References: <a86fb13f.0411081407.3a382a6b@posting.google.com>
	<a86fb13f.0411091707.11be7433@posting.google.com>
	<4191dc09.80425295@news.oz.net>
	<a86fb13f.0411100936.7ce01770@posting.google.com>
	<a86fb13f.0411140445.40b2d44c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41985e17.97850521@news.oz.net>

On 14 Nov 2004 04:45:25 -0800, mj.clift at virgin.net (Malcolm Clift) wrote:

>Hi Bengt,
>
>I thought that I would be able to work out how to do this, but as I'm
>new to python it's harder than I thought...
>
>Could you tell me how I would get the text to flow on to a new page?
>
Maybe, but I'd have to know what you meant by that. E.g., are you showing
multiple pages at once? Waiting for a page-turn click? Do you need to turn
back to previous pages? Once you can spell out _exactly_ what you want to
happen in English, you will probably be able to do it in Python. (And when
you get more fluent in Python, you will likely prefer to spell such things
in Python first ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From finite.automaton at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 13:05:23 2004
From: finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 10:05:23 -0800
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
	number of output arguments)
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4b39d922.0411181005.62ca5d67@posting.google.com>

Not quite the syntax you want, but better imho since it doesn't
involve name redundancy:

locals().update( {'a': 1, 'b': 2, 'c': 3} )


Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote in message news:<30001hF2ptnqcU1 at uni-berlin.de>...
> 
> Maybe things would be better if we had "dict unpacking":
> 
>    a, c, b = {'a': 1, 'b': 2, 'c': 3}
> 
> would give a == 1, c == 3, b == 2. Then we could
> accept outputs by keyword as well as inputs...


From craig at postnewspapers.com.au  Fri Nov 19 11:20:16 2004
From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 00:20:16 +0800
Subject: Question about thread
In-Reply-To: <1100879122.755150@eng-ser4>
References: <1100875373.911763@eng-ser6> <306ic5F2svtsdU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1100879122.755150@eng-ser4>
Message-ID: <1100881216.5029.5.camel@rasputin.localnet>

On Fri, 2004-11-19 at 23:45, Valkyrie wrote:
> When I do it line by line in python's console, I have similar result to youl.
> But when I try to run it in a file, say:
> 
> python demo.py
> 
> It just returns me nothing. I have no idea on this right now...

You need to cause the main thread to wait on the child threads until
they've all finished, otherwise - as Peter Hickman just mentioned - your
script will terminate and all threads will end. Ten seconds on Google
found this:

http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/1364

--
Craig Ringer



From sw at wordtech-software.com  Mon Nov  8 20:42:26 2004
From: sw at wordtech-software.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 20:42:26 -0500
Subject: Help on installing PyQt on MacOSX 10.3 needed
In-Reply-To: <5fb00e69.0411081405.35d40c1b@posting.google.com>
References: <5fb00e69.0411081405.35d40c1b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9gVjd.928$yk5.254@fe37.usenetserver.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I am working on a PyQt package bundle for OS X. I have everything
installed correctly on my Mac (10.3.6), and am running Eric3 without a
problem. Building everything isn't terribly difficult, but it is very
time-consuming (think two or three days of continuous compiling).
Putting together a package installer is actually harder than building it
because there are so many moving parts (patch Qt, build Qt, build
QScintilla, build SIP, build and install PyQt). I've gotten a
Sourceforge project approved, and as soon as I get everything worked
out, I will announce the release. So, if you can wait a little longer...


svenn.are at bjerkem.de wrote:
| Hi,
|
| I wanted to run a program that is written in PyQt on my mac, and went
| over to Riverbank to get PyQ 3.13 and SIP 4.1.1 sources.
|
| I followed the installation guide except for the compiling python as
| Macosx already has python.
|
| I had no problem with compiling SIP and also no problem with compiling
| PyQt nor did I have any error message during make install.
|
| Now the last step in the install documentation says that I have to
| edit several files regarding python itself, and then recompile it.
| This is where I got stuck. The mac native python cannot find the
| package qt with a import qt command on the commandline, and I have no
| experience whatsoever with python.
|
| Maybe somebody has been successful installing PyQt with the native
| python in macosx 10.3 and can help me?
|


- --
Kevin Walzer, PhD
WordTech Software--Open Source Applications and Packages for OS X
http://www.wordtech-software.com
http://www.smallbizmac.com
http://www.kevin-walzer.com
mailto:sw at wordtech-software.com
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Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFBkCCBJmdQs+6YVcoRAh8EAJwNFTUpXnCxV2fBbxIgjPTbiQHItwCgiyeN
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From craig at postnewspapers.com.au  Thu Nov 18 05:38:39 2004
From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 18:38:39 +0800
Subject: Correct way to handle independent interpreters when embedding in a
	single-threaded C++ app
Message-ID: <1100774319.18258.249.camel@bucket.localnet>

Hi folks

I'm a bit of a newbie here, though I've tried to appropriately research
this issue before posting. I've found a lot of questions, a few answers
that don't really answer quite what I'm looking for, but nothing that
really solves or explains all this. I'll admit to being stumped, hence
my question here.

I'm also trying to make this post as clear and detailed as possible.
Unfortunately, that means it's come out like a book. I hope a few kind
souls will be game to read it, on the theory that I'm a user who's
putting in the time to actually provide enough information for once.

I have a Python interpreter embedded in a C++/Qt application (Scribus -
http://www.scribus.net). Scribus, while using multi-threading enabled
libraries, runs in a single 'main' thread. The Python interpreter is
implemented as a plug-in that's used to run user scripts. Overall it's
working very well.

I've run into two problems that are proving very difficult to solve,
however, and I thought I'd ask here for some words of wisdom. I'm only
tackling the first one right now. First I'll provide some background on
how I'm doing things, and what I'm trying to achieve. If anything below
comes out as a request for Python functionality it's not intended to be
- it's just a description of what /I'm/ trying to do.

The Scribus Python plugin is pretty standard - it both embeds the Python
interpreter and provides an extension module to expose
application-specific functionality. It is used to permit users to
execute Python scripts to automate tasks within the application. I also
hope to make it possible to extend the application using Python, but
that's not the issue right now. I need to isolate individual script
executions as much as possible, so that to the greatest extent we can
manage each script runs in a new interpreter. In other words, I need to
minimise the chances of scripts treading on each others toes or leaking
too much with each execution.

Specifically, as much as possible I need to:

  - Ensure that memory allocated by Python during a script run is all
    freed, including any objects created and modules loaded. An
    exception can be made for C extension modules, so long as they
    don't leak every time a script is run.
  - Ensure that no global state (eg loaded modules, globals namespace,
    etc) persists across script executions.

I have no need to be able to run Python scripts in parallel with the
application, nor with each other. If a script goes into an endless loop,
that's a bug with the script, and not the application's problem. I'd
like to reduce the chances of scripts conflicting or messing up the app
state, but don't intend to even try to make it possible to safely run
untrusted scripts or to completely isolate scripts. If the odd C
extension module doesn't like it, I can deal with that too.

Also, some of the extension module functions make Qt gui calls (for
example, create and display a file chooser dialog) or access internal
application state in QObject derived classes. According to the Qt
documentation, this should only be done from the main thread. This is
another reason why I'm making no attempt to make it possible to run
normal Python scripts without blocking the application, or run scripts
in parallel. It also means that all my Python sub-interpreters need to
share the main (and in fact only) application thread.


I've hit two issues with this. The first is that executing a script
crashes the application with SIGABRT if a Python debug build is being
used. Python crashes the app with the error "Invalid thread state for
this thread". I'm working with Python 2.3.4 . The crash is triggered by
a check in pystate.c line 276  - in the PyThreadState_Swap() function:

The code in question is:

    /* It should not be possible for more than one thread state
       to be used for a thread.  Check this the best we can in debug
       builds.
    */
#if defined(Py_DEBUG) && defined(WITH_THREAD)
    if (new) {
        PyThreadState *check = PyGILState_GetThisThreadState();
        if (check && check != new)
            /* Py_FatalError("Invalid thread state for this thread"); */
            printf("We would've died here\n");
    }
#endif

A trimmed down and simplified version (eg no error checking, etc) of the
code I'm using in the plugin that hits this check is:

    PyThreadState *stateo = PyEval_SaveThread();
    PyThreadState *state = Py_NewInterpreter();
    initscribus(Carrier); // init the extension module
    PySys_SetArgv(1, scriptfilename);
    PyObject* m = PyImport_AddModule("__main__");
    PyObject* globals = PyModule_GetDict(m);
    char* script_string = ... // build script that calls execfile()
    PyObject* result = PyRun_String(script_string, Py_file_input,\
        globals, globals);
    ... // handle possible failure and capture exception
    Py_EndInterpreter(state);
    PyEval_RestoreThread(stateo);

(The full version can be found in
scribus/plugins/scriptplugin/scriptplugin.cpp line 225-279 of Scribus
CVS, http://www.scribus.net/)

The script text isn't really important. It just execfiles()s the user's
script within a try/catch block to ignore SystemExit and to catch and
capture any other fatal exceptions.

The crash occurs at Py_NewInterpreter, when it calls PyThreadState_Swap.
It's pretty clear _what_ is happening - Python is aborting on a sanity
check because I'm trying to use multiple thread states in one thread -
what I'm looking for help with is _why_. When run with a non-debug
build, scripts run just fine. It also runs fine when I use a debug build
of Python without thread support (as is obvious from the code snippet
above). I'm sure there are cases where things can / do go wrong, but for
general use it appears to be just peachy.

So ... my question is, what are the issues behind this check? Does it
indicate that there will be a problem with this condition in all cases?
My understanding is that it's to do with the way Python doesn't use the
full capabilities of platform threading libraries, and has some shared
globals that could cause issues. Correct? If so, is there a way around
this?

All I'm looking to do is to create a clean sub-interpreter state, run a
script in it (in the main thread, with nothing else running) then
dispose of the interpreter at script exit. It's desirable to keep the
main interpreter usable as well, but there will never be more than one
sub-interpreter, and there will never be Python code running in the main
and sub interpreters at the same time. Does the existence of this check
mean that what I'm trying to do is incorrect or unsafe? If not, might it
be possible to provide apps with a way to disable this check (think an
"I know what I'm doing" flag)? Is there another, saner way to do what I
want?

This post describes a similar issue to mine, though their goals are
different, and I don't think the solution will work for me:
http://groups.google.com.au/groups?hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&selm=brlicq%243dh%241%40arachne.labyrinth.net.au&rnum=7

This message describes the issue I'm seeing:
http://groups.google.com.au/groups?q=Py_NewInterpreter&hl=en&lr=&group=comp.lang.python.*&client=firefox-a&selm=knbstvgsn3o3qmmtu975g8eb94rhpmae2o%404ax.com&rnum=5

Another related message:
http://groups.google.com.au/groups?q=Py_NewInterpreter&hl=en&lr=&group=comp.lang.python.*&client=firefox-a&selm=mailman.3563.1095687831.5135.python-list%40python.org&rnum=1

Someone says it's just broken:
http://groups.google.com.au/groups?q=Py_NewInterpreter&start=10&hl=en&lr=&group=comp.lang.python.*&client=firefox-a&selm=m34r8r5jwr.fsf%40mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de&rnum=17


I've tried one other approach that doesn't involve
Py_NewInterpreter/Py_EndInterpreter, but didn't have much success. What
I tried to do was run each script with a new global dict, so that they
at least had separate global namespaces (though they'd still be able to
influence the next script's interpreter state / module state). If I
recall correctly I ended up with code like this:

    execfile(filename, {'__builtins__'=__builtins__,
                        '__name__':'__main__',
                        '__file__':filename})

being called from PyRun_String.

This appeared to work fine, but turned out to leak memory like a sieve.
Objects in the script's global namespace weren't being disposed of when
the script terminated. Consequently, if I had a script with one line:

    x = x = ' '*200000000

then each time I ran the script the app would gobble a large chunk more
memory and not release it. If I wrote a script that very carefully
deleted everything it put in the top-level namespace before it exited,
such as all variables, imports, classes, and functions, I still leaked a
little memory and a few references, but nothing much. Unfortunately,
doing that is also rather painful at best and seems _really_ clumsy.

It looked to me after some testing with a debug build like the global
dictionaries that were being created for each execfile() call were not
being disposed of after the call terminated, even though no code I was
aware of continued to hold references to them. Circular references? Do I
have to manually invoke the cyclic reference cleanup code in Python when
embedding?

I'm sorry for the lack of detail provided in the discussion of this
approach. It was a while ago. If folks here think it's viable I can go
back and get some more hard data.

With the 'new globals dict' approach, it was also possible for people to
mangle modules and for the next script to see the changes. If there's a
way to re-init modules between runs (at least the built-in ones like
sys, __builtins__, etc, plus the app's extension module and any modules
written in Python), that'd be fantastic.


If there's some way to do achieve what I want to do - get scripts to
execute in private or mostly-private environments in the main thread of
an application - I'd be overjoyed to hear it. I'm very sorry for the
mammoth message, and hope I've made some sense and provided enough
information without boring you all to tears. It's clear that there's
been quite a bit of interest in this topic from my digging through the
list archives, but I just wasn't able to find a clear, definitive
answer.

Phew. To anybody who got this far, thankyou very much for your time and
patience.

--
Craig Ringer



From exogen at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 11:03:41 2004
From: exogen at gmail.com (Brian Beck)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:03:41 -0500
Subject: py.test anyone?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6701.1101148862.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6701.1101148862.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <coi5oa$pef$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>

Robert Brewer wrote:
> 
> http://www.google.com/search?q=%22py.test%22
> 

Just a little OT note, but Google ignores the '.' and, in fact, any 
punctuation whether it is in a quoted string or not.

And while on the subject, many people incorrectly assume that Google 
supports parentheses to change precedence or to clear search term 
ambiguity.  These are likewise completely ignored.

;)

Have a helpful day.

--
Brian Beck
Adventurer of the First Order


From merman at snafu.de  Mon Nov  8 14:50:36 2004
From: merman at snafu.de (T. Kaufmann)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 20:50:36 +0100
Subject: MySQLdb installation
In-Reply-To: <cmohqo$j1l$02$4@news.t-online.com>
References: <418f99db$0$175$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<mailman.6117.1099931315.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418fba73$0$161$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<cmohqo$j1l$02$4@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <418fcca7$0$165$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> T. Kaufmann wrote:
> 
> 
>>>... which mentions, among others:
>>>
>>>* Red Hat Linux packages:
>>>    - mysql-devel to compile
>>>    - mysql and/or mysql-devel to run
>>
>>... and what does it mean? I don't understand it.
> 
> 
> Install the package mysql-devel.

I can't find it!?

o-o

Thomas


From dd55 at cornell.edu  Fri Nov  5 18:21:11 2004
From: dd55 at cornell.edu (Darren Dale)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 18:21:11 -0500
Subject: executing python code
References: <cmgvvd$chn$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<418c0870$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <cmh1t7$d9p$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>

Michael Fuhr wrote:

> Darren Dale <dd55 at cornell.edu> writes:
> 
>> Some time ago I asked about executing a python program or script. For
>> windows, I was informed that the .py extension could be added to some
>> list of executable extensions, and then I could just type "mycode"
>> instead of "python mycode.py". Great advice, worked like a charm.
>>
>> I recently jumped ship, and have been running Gentoo Linux for about two
>> months. Is it possible to get the same behavior on Linux? I thought it
>> would have something to do with adding the #!/usr/bin/env python line to
>> my code, but I'm not sure what this is supposed to do (it didnt work,
>> that much I know.)
> 
> How didn't it work?  What did you do and what happened?  What errors
> were printed?  Did you use chmod to make the script executable?  Is
> the script in a directory that's in your PATH?  Is Python installed
> on the system?
>

Yes, I did chmod, the script is in the current directory.
 
$ mycode.py
bash: mycode.py: command not found

I just tried:

$ ./mycode.py

and that will execute.


From oliver.schoenborn at utoronto.ca  Sat Nov 13 16:26:46 2004
From: oliver.schoenborn at utoronto.ca (HumbdyDum)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 16:26:46 -0500
Subject: problem with "setup.py bdist --formats=zip"
In-Reply-To: <cn57vg$2jc$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
References: <cn2mhg$476$1@nrc-news.nrc.ca>
	<cn406e$bcp$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<yGgld.59250$km5.2395990@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<cn57vg$2jc$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <D_uld.65393$km5.2659490@news20.bellglobal.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> HumbdyDum wrote:
> 
>> Peter Hansen wrote:
>>
>>> you'll find that the installer has an option to install for the
>>> current user only, so that you don't have to be an Administrator
>>> to do it.
>>
>>
>> Really? I've installed several (like Numeric etc) and looked but never 
>> seen that option, I must be blind. Actually, I remember clearly that 
>> they always say, after being started, something like "You don't have 
>> sufficient priviledge, you must be administrator". I'll take another 
>> look. Thanks,
> 
> I'm talking about the Python installer itself, not installers
> for other things.  Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant
> when you said you wanted to create a binary distribution.
> I assumed you meant "of Python".

No I meant "of a Python package I want to distribute". I'd like to 
create a zip file that contains the same stuff that the bdist_wininst 
would contain. Is there a way to intercept the bdist_wininst to make it 
create a zip instead of an exe installer?

Oliver


From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 27 06:52:27 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 06:52:27 -0500
Subject: Subclassing complex with computed arguments
In-Reply-To: <a86143fb.0411251430.50665acf@posting.google.com>
References: <a86143fb.0411251430.50665acf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41A86A7B.3040800@yahoo.com>

Peter Olsen wrote:
> I want to define a class "point" as a subclass of complex.  
> 
> When I create an instance 
> 
> sample = point(<arglist>) 
> 
> I want "sample" to "be" a complex number, but with its real and
> imaginary parts computed in point()'s __init__ function with their
> values based on the arglist.  I want to compute with point instances
> as though they were native complex numbers, but I want to be able to
> define some new methods and over-ride some of complex's existing ones.

I have come up with two solutions to this. They both have warts.

Disclaimer: I have not extensively tested either of these. In 
particular, I have not tested all the numeric operations to make sure 
they give correct results!

The first attempt was to subclass complex directly, overriding __new__() 
to process the input parameters, and delegating all the numeric special 
methods to the base class implementation. The delegation wrapper 
converts the returned result back to a point.

The trick to getting this to work was to realize that, for example, 
complex.__add__(self, y) requires an actual complex instance for self. 
If self is a subclass of complex it returns NotImplemented. So my 
delegation wrapper constructs a new complex object before calling the 
base class method.

The wart in this implementation is that mixed operations with complex 
don't always return a point. If the complex is the left operand, 
complex.__op__ is called directly and the result is not wrapped back to 
a point.

Here is the implementation:

############## point.py ################
''' A subclass of complex that supports the full range of complex 
numeric operations
     by subclassing complex.

     >>> p=point(1,2)
     >>> p
     point(1+2j)
     >>> p+1
     point(2+2j)
     >>> 1+p
     (2+2j)
     >>> p-1
     point(2j)

     >>> c=complex(1,2)
     >>> p+c
     point(2+4j)

     A point can be used where a complex is expected - though the result 
is a complex,
     not a point:

     >>> import cmath
     >>> cmath.sqrt(p)
     (1.272019649514069+0.78615137775742328j)

     This doesn't work correctly - it calls complex.__add__() directly
     and the result doesn't get wrapped:

     >>> c+p
     (2+4j)
'''

class point(complex):
     def __new__(cls, *args, **kwds):
         if len(args) == 2:
#            return complex.__new__(cls, args[0]*2, args[1]*2) # Special 
args processing goes here
             return complex.__new__(cls, args[0], args[1])
         return complex.__new__(cls, *args, **kwds)

     def __str__(self):
         return self.__repr__()

     def __repr__(self):
         s = complex.__repr__(self)
         if s.startswith('('):
             return 'point' + s
         return 'point(%s)' %s


def makeWrapper(attr):
     def wrapper(self, *args):
         val = getattr(complex, attr)(complex(self), *args)
#        print attr, args, val
         return point(val)
     return wrapper

for special in ['__abs__', '__add__', '__div__', '__divmod__',
         '__floordiv__', '__mod__', '__mul__', '__neg__',
         '__pos__', '__pow__', '__radd__', '__rdiv__',
         '__rdivmod__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__',
         '__rfloordiv__', '__rmod__', '__rmul__',
         '__rpow__', '__rsub__', '__rtruediv__',
         '__sub__', '__truediv__']:
     setattr(point, special, makeWrapper(special))


def _test():
     import doctest, point
     return doctest.testmod(point)

if __name__ == "__main__":
     _test()

###########################################

My second attempt uses delegation rather than subclassing. point 
instances have a complex attribute and delegate operations to it.

The trick to getting this one to work was to realize that I had to call 
coerce() explicitly in my wrapper function.

The wart in this implementation is that points are not instances of 
complex, so to pass a point to e.g. cmath.sqrt(), you have to explicitly 
convert to a complex.

I think this implementation is probably safer, since it fails noisily 
and failures are easy to fix, whereas the first implementation could 
silently give errors (depending on how point and complex actually differ).

Here is the implementation:

################# point2.py ####################

''' A class that supports a full range of complex numeric operations by 
delegating
     to an instance of complex.

     >>> p=point(1,2)
     >>> p
     point(1+2j)
     >>> p+1
     point(2+2j)
     >>> 1+p
     point(2+2j)
     >>> p-1
     point(2j)
     >>> p-4j
     point(1-2j)

     >>> c=complex(1,2)
     >>> p+c
     point(2+4j)
     >>> c+p
     point(2+4j)

     Since point does not subclass complex, it must be explicitly coerced
     to a complex when one is needed:

     >>> import cmath
     >>> cmath.sqrt(p)
     Traceback (most recent call last):
       File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
     TypeError: a float is required

     >>> cmath.sqrt(complex(p))
     (1.272019649514069+0.78615137775742328j)
'''

class point(object):
     def __init__(self, *args, **kwds):
         if len(args) == 1 and isinstance(args[0], complex):
             self.c = args[0]
         if len(args) == 2:
#            self.c = complex(args[0]*2, args[1]*2) # Special args 
processing goes here
             self.c = complex(args[0], args[1])
         else:
             self.c = complex(*args, **kwds)

     def __str__(self):
         return self.__repr__()

     def __repr__(self):
         s = repr(self.c)
         if s.startswith('('):
             return 'point' + s
         return 'point(%s)' %s

     def __complex__(self):
         return self.c


def makeWrapper(attr):
     def wrapper(self, y):
         x, y = coerce(self.c, y)
         val = getattr(x, attr)(y)
#        print attr, x, y, val
         return point(val)
     return wrapper


for special in ['__abs__', '__add__', '__div__', '__divmod__',
         '__floordiv__', '__mod__', '__mul__', '__neg__',
         '__pos__', '__pow__', '__radd__', '__rdiv__',
         '__rdivmod__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__',
         '__rfloordiv__', '__rmod__', '__rmul__',
         '__rpow__', '__rsub__', '__rtruediv__',
         '__sub__', '__truediv__']:
     setattr(point, special, makeWrapper(special))


def _test():
     import doctest, point2
     return doctest.testmod(point2)

if __name__ == "__main__":
     _test()

####################################

HTH,
Kent


From justinhsia at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  5 08:33:49 2004
From: justinhsia at yahoo.com (Chaser)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 05:33:49 -0800
Subject: ?? Modules for GPIB and Ethernet ??
References: <21240387.0411041337.7b17172b@posting.google.com>
	<0-GdnfBAPrZPXBfcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <21240387.0411050533.4d145e2a@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<0-GdnfBAPrZPXBfcRVn-sw at powergate.ca>...
> Chaser wrote:
> > Just wondering if anyone knows where I can find modules for NI-488.2
> > GPIB and for a generic ethercard?
> 
> Can't help directly with the GPIB thing, except to note that
> using something like ctypes it is generally pretty easy to
> wrap the NI libraries for such things.
> 
> As for the other question: do you actually mean you want a
> way to talk "raw" Ethernet, or are you just trying to do
> some networking?
> 
> -Peter

Hi Peter,

I have an equipment that's controlled through ethernet.  (The control
program is currently written in C++.)  I guess my really difficulty
is, how do I send commmands to that devise through ethernet using
Python?

Any suggestions are appreciated.  Thanks.

v/r,
Justin


From stuart at stuartbishop.net  Mon Nov 15 02:36:31 2004
From: stuart at stuartbishop.net (Stuart Bishop)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:36:31 +1100
Subject: psycopg, transactions and multiple cursors
In-Reply-To: <cmnqpk$2gh$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
References: <cmnqpk$2gh$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
Message-ID: <41985C7F.9000807@stuartbishop.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Alban Hertroys wrote:
| Oh no! It's me and transactions again :)
|
| I'm not really sure whether this is a limitation of psycopg or
| postgresql. When I use multiple cursors in a transaction, the records
| inserted at the start of the transaction aren't visible to those later
| on in that transaction (using a different cursor).

If you didn't get the answers you want in this thread, there is a
psycopg specific mailing list available at
http://lists.initd.org/mailman/listinfo/psycopg where you can talk
directly with the developers and other users.

- --
Stuart Bishop <stuart at stuartbishop.net>
http://www.stuartbishop.net/
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iD8DBQFBmFxvAfqZj7rGN0oRAqQAAJ9QMWjVc2B/ZtjAQpxjI24J+AKvEQCdHiqb
CXSeHZYRg7TwNnALmyiywDs=
=EdkG
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From ville at spammers.com  Tue Nov  2 10:58:06 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 02 Nov 2004 17:58:06 +0200
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Steve" == Stephen Ferg <steve at ferg.org> writes:

    Steve> Python's lack of a CPAN-like facility, and I submit that
    Steve> without a CPyAN Python will never even get close to
    Steve> achieving the degree of widespread usage that Perl
    Steve> currently enjoys.

...

    Steve> It is no good saying that Python doesn't need a CPyAN
    Steve> because we've got Google, or we've got SourceForge, or
    Steve> we've got PyPI or distutils or the Vaults of Parnassus.
    Steve> Even used together, all of these tools still fall short of
    Steve> the capabilities of CPAN.  Only a full CPyAN will provide
    Steve> the quality and ease-of-use of external modules that will
    Steve> enable Python to flourish in the coming decade.

I think you are overselling CPAN a little bit here. It is not an
absolute requirement, and I think Python can easily surpass Perl in
popularity even without CPAN functionality. Perl popularity in general
seems to be going down, and I don't think Perl is something to worry
about anymore. Hell, people rarely even mention Perl these days
anyway.

    Steve> one: "I wish I could convince my organization to use
    Steve> Python, because Python really is a better technology, and
    Steve> my organization really does need it."  And the answer to
    Steve> that wish, too, lies in making Python more popular.)

I don't think Python is too unpopular to sell to companies
anymore. All you need to do is to demonstrate technical superiority,
and that should be trivial if the other contender is Perl. Provided
that your company is not already too stuck with Perl, which is rarely
the case because with Perl you usually dealing with simple scripts.

    Steve> Building a CPyAN will be a big job, no question.  But I
    Steve> think that for the Python community and for the Python
    Steve> Software Foundation, it should be job number one.

Perhaps the priority should be to build a generic Open Source
catalogued repository retrieval system. I don't see why the Python
community should do something like this alone, because there really
isn't too many Python specific aspects in the problem anyway.

Perhaps Arch might be a good starting point...

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Thu Nov 18 04:44:44 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 11:44:44 +0200
Subject: .pyc files...
References: <E1CTDp7-00050j-00@galvatron.kickingdragon.com>
	<mailman.6343.1100420001.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<x74qjsnj1o.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<slrncpkha7.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
	<x7fz39mrs8.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<slrncpnjq2.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
Message-ID: <54rop0dgkqb5ing122i0dtrtvotambtfkv@4ax.com>

On 17 Nov 2004 22:25:05 GMT, rumours say that Jorgen Grahn
<jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se> might have written:

>> As has already been stated on the list, $() is POSIX.
>
>Sorry, missed that.

>> So sh has it. [...]
>
>Solaris 8's /bin/sh doesn't.

Then Solaris 8 /bin/sh is not POSIX conformant.  However, you could try
if /bin/ksh has it.

>> If you're scripting in csh or tcsh, you're making a
>> fundamental mistake.
>
>I don't.  I'm not even talking about writing scripts, just about deleting
>.pyc files from your average Unix shell (although I hope not many people use
>/bin/sh as their interactive shell, POSIX or not).

Any particular reason for prefering t?csh over POSIX sh other than
habit?  I'm asking out of plain curiosity.

Anyway, nobody in this thread has offered the pythonic solution, so I'll
pretend I am on-topic :)

def remove_pyc_files(root_folder):
    for dirname, dirnames, filenames in os.walk(root_folder):
        for filename in filenames:
            if not filename.endswith('.pyc'): continue
            pathname = os.path.join(dirname, filename)
            os.remove(pathname)

-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
"Tssss!" --Brad Pitt as Achilles in unprecedented Ancient Greek


From mediocre_person at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 15 11:33:44 2004
From: mediocre_person at hotmail.com (N Chackowsky)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 08:33:44 -0800
Subject: Combining arbitrary lists
References: <41982269$1_1@alt.athenanews.com>
	<mailman.6367.1100491265.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<419876e1.104196646@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <367fb727.0411150833.4732246c@posting.google.com>

Thanks to all who replied; very helpful. Bengt Richter: that's a
lovely generator--I'm new to the whole idea of generators, but that's
very clear. I will experiment and test it.

Nick.


From andrea.valle at unito.it  Mon Nov  1 05:33:14 2004
From: andrea.valle at unito.it (andrea valle)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 11:33:14 +0100
Subject: name of an instance
In-Reply-To: <864d370904103113373b9698f0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <40a939c9.0410291820.fada696@posting.google.com>
	<40a939c9.0410310827.112f13a1@posting.google.com>
	<864d370904103113373b9698f0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6FAE7CBE-2BF1-11D9-841C-0003939C968C@unito.it>

Hi to all,
another basic question, but...
How do I access the name of an instance?

I.e., if I have:

class MyClass:
	def __init__(self):
		print "here we are, kids!"

and:
 >>> a = MyClass()

I'd like to have:

 >>> 'a'

Thanks a lot

-a-


Andrea Valle
Laboratorio multimediale "G. Quazza"
Facolt? di Scienze della Formazione
Universit? degli Studi di Torino
andrea.valle at unito.it


From ville at spammers.com  Tue Nov 16 13:14:54 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 20:14:54 +0200
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<20041114200132.20649.1982992758.divmod.quotient.5222@ohm>
	<mailman.6390.1100553070.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbf8z.mirt8m687hvbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<du7mzxiruej.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<mailman.6438.1100627914.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du7u0rpek4h.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Ian" == Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> writes:

    Ian> I would think of it differently.  I don't see a need for
    Ian> static typing to deal with the outside world.  There's always
    Ian> a bridge when communicating with the outside world, and if
    Ian> that bridge is smart enough it should be okay.  You can

With things like IronPython, there isn't necessarily any "outside
world". The compiler can look at the code, determine that it's "typed
enough" and compile it to a more static form of code that can be
JIT-compiled to native code.

    Ian> it would be worth it for any external interface, but for
    Ian> internal interfaces it might be worth it, where there's less
    Ian> of a concern about flexibility.  In that case, decorators
    Ian> might be all that's necessary, e.g.:

    Ian> @constrain_types(a=float, b=str, c=int:
    Ian> def foo(a, b):
    Ian> c = 1
    Ian> ...

Guido has stated that we shouldn't jump all over decorator syntax for
function/method signatures, because type declarations will appear in
language syntax at some point. We'll see how that pans out - in the
meantime, perhaps having some kind of "standard" type declaration
(-ish) decorator in the standard library would be conductive to having
One Obvious Way of telling IDEs about the types.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Wed Nov  3 19:31:52 2004
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 00:31:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<uef2o0dkckqmnifgpt78n3sg8ai6a1g05c@4ax.com>
	<slrncoem5p.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmaq49$q5c$1@fred.mathworks.com> <cmbcto$1ba$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<1gmp6qz.1pzqqttpu6acpN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cmbt9o$9h2$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> JCM <joshway_without_spam at myway.com> wrote:

>> When people talk about "weak typing" they generally mean either
>> implicit conversions (or operations on values of different types),
>> or reinterpreting representations of values as a different type.

> I've seen people complain about "weak typing" mostly to mean an entirely
> different issue: types being attached to objects and NOT to names.

Ah yep, there's that one too.  But I hope most people call that static
typing.  At least I think I do.  c.l.py is bad for my mental dictionary.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Nov  4 09:21:19 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 09:21:19 -0500
Subject: pep 336:  Make None Callable
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>
	<cmcdo3$d85$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<S-6dncf1OqqqIRTcRVn-jw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <cmddsv$3s4$1@panix1.panix.com>

Before I respond:

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?

In article <S-6dncf1OqqqIRTcRVn-jw at comcast.com>,
The Eternal Squire  <eternalsquire at comcast.net> wrote:
>Why not?
>
>Aahz wrote:
>
>> In article <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw at comcast.com>,
>> The Eternal Squire  <eternalsquire at comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>>>Title: Make None Callable
>> 
>> 
>> No, *no*, *NO*, and *HELL NO*.
>> 
>> OTOH, once the BDFL Pronounces, we can return to laughing and pointing
>> the next time this comes up.


-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)


From ods at strana.ru  Fri Nov 19 05:55:15 2004
From: ods at strana.ru (Denis S. Otkidach)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:55:15 +0300
Subject: How to sort a list of tuples
In-Reply-To: <1100859769.700610@eng-ser6>
References: <1100859769.700610@eng-ser6>
Message-ID: <20041119135515.0b07106a.ods@strana.ru>

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:22:45 +0800
Valkyrie <valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk> wrote:

> I have a list of tuples, and one of the fields in the tuple is score. So how can
> I sort the list by the score?

In 2.4 you can use key argument of sort method:
>>> l = [('a', 2), ('c', 3), ('b', 1)]
>>> l.sort(key=lambda i: i[1])
>>> l
[('b', 1), ('a', 2), ('c', 3)]

otherwise pass comparison function:
>>> l = [('a', 2), ('c', 3), ('b', 1)]
>>> l.sort(lambda i1, i2: cmp(i1[1], i2[0]))
>>> l
[('b', 1), ('c', 3), ('a', 2)]

-- 
Denis S. Otkidach
http://www.python.ru/      [ru]


From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Sun Nov 28 01:55:22 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 06:55:22 GMT
Subject: Subclassing complex with computed arguments
References: <mailman.6798.1101436247.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41a6b8a3$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <uDeqd.50273$g21.19837@fe1.texas.rr.com>

"Kent Johnson" <kent3737 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41a6b8a3$1_2 at newspeer2.tds.net...
> Jp Calderone wrote:
> > On 25 Nov 2004 14:30:18 -0800, pcolsen at comcast.net (Peter Olsen) wrote:
> >
> >>I want to define a class "point" as a subclass of complex.
> >>
> >>When I create an instance
> >>
> >>sample = point(<arglist>)
> >>
> >>I want "sample" to "be" a complex number, but with its real and
> >>imaginary parts computed in point()'s __init__ function with their
> >>values based on the arglist.  I want to compute with point instances
> >>as though they were native complex numbers, but I want to be able to
> >>define some new methods and over-ride some of complex's existing ones.
> >
<snip>
> I had more luck with a delegation-based approach:
>
> class point(object):
>      def __init__(self, *args, **kwds):
>          if len(args) == 1 and isinstance(args[0], complex):
>              self.c = args[0]
>          if len(args) == 2:
>              self.c = complex(args[0]*2, args[1]*2)
>          else:
>              self.c = complex(*args, **kwds)
>
>      def __add__(self, y):
>          val = self.c+y
>          return point(val)
>
>      def __repr__(self):
>          return 'point' + self.c.__repr__()
>
>
> p=point(1,2)
> print p
> p1 = p+1
> print p1
>
> prints:
> point(2+4j)
> point(3+4j)

I believe this is another case of "is-a" being confused with
"is-implemented-using-a".  I'm skeptical of the merits of an OO design that
creates a graphical type by extending a computational type.  A Point can
*represent* a complex number, and vice-versa, but saying that a Point *is* a
complex number seems unlikely, and smells of premature optimization and/or
memory conservation (for that matter, does 1 complex really use less memory
than 2 ints?).  The delegation-based approaches that have already been
posted seem to be much more likely to pan out well.

-- Paul




From davecook at nowhere.net  Tue Nov  9 00:56:06 2004
From: davecook at nowhere.net (Dave Cook)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 05:56:06 GMT
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<87d5ysbkq9.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <slrncp0mvm.vd1.davecook@localhost.localdomain>

In article <87d5ysbkq9.fsf at pop-server.bigpond.net.au>, Israel Raj T wrote:

> On Windows XP, Windows NT and Linux (Gentoo ), I have consistently
> found python apps using wxpython to be far faster to load
> and to be far more responsive than Java apps.

I've casually compared the jython/Swing tree widget with the pygtk tree
widget, both with the same large data set, and the Swing tree widget
responds quite a bit faster than the gtk tree widget (there have been a lot
of complaints about the gtk treeviews slowness).  Obviously the Swing tree
widget is much better optimized.  

wxpython runs on top of gtk on Linux, but I don't know if they use the gtk
treeview as a "peer" or work around it and implement their own tree widget.

Dave Cook


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Nov 21 04:37:37 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:37:37 +0100
Subject: unicode question
In-Reply-To: <419ff7cd_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <qkLnd.22919$jf.19362@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<419fc9b9$0$198$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<419ff7cd_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <41A061E1.8050203@v.loewis.de>

Kent Johnson wrote:
> Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> 
>> wolfgang haefelinger wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder especially about case 2. I can see that "print y" makes a 
>>> call to
>>> Y.__str__() . But Y.__str__() can be printed?? So what is 'print' 
>>> exactly doing?
>>
>>
>>
>> It looks at sys.stdout.encoding. If this is set, and the thing to print
>> is a unicode string, it converts it to the stream encoding, and prints
>> the result of the conversion.
> 
> 
> I hate to contradict an expert, but ISTM that it is 
> sys.getdefaultencoding() ('ascii') that is the problem, not 
> sys.stdout.encoding ('cp437')

It seems we were answering different parts of the question. I answered
the part "What is 'print' exactly doing"; you answered the part as to
what the problem with str() conversion is (although I'm not sure whether
the OP has actually asked that question).

Also, the one case that is interesting here was not in your experiment:
try

print gamma

This should work, regardless of sys.getdefaultencoding(), as long as
sys.stdout.encoding supports the characters to be printed.

Regards,
Martin


From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Tue Nov 16 13:32:08 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 18:32:08 GMT
Subject: a very newbie question about threading
References: <9c3edc58.0411121629.45652543@posting.google.com>
	<x7d5yio0vr.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <slrncpkhp7.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 21:59:04 -0600, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
> chrispatton at gmail.com (Chris Patton) writes:
> 
>> I've recenently stumbled upon a concept known as "threading". Can
>> anyone tell me what this IS and how it is used, or show me where I can
>> get information about this?
> 
> Now that you know what they are - be warned that they tend to be a
> source of very hard to track down bugs. If you can avoid writing
> threaded code, do so. One common use of threads is to handle multiple
> IO streams at one time. Asyncore is a much saner solution to that
> problem.

For more threading criticism along those lines, see Eric Raymond's TAOUP:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/ch07s03.html#id2923889

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov  8 07:45:24 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 13:45:24 +0100
Subject: Python OS
References: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmin1n$500$02$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6003.1099752590.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmiorc$j4b$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6021.1099783808.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmk7r1$4d0$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<mailman.6035.1099803136.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmmq5g$pvq$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <cmnpp4$f14$00$2@news.t-online.com>

 
> I didn't read the OP, just Richard.  Unless he was the OP,
> in which case I'm confused about various comments that have
> been made, but not concerned enough to go back and try to
> figure the whole thing out.  *Your* comments appear right
> on the mark, as far as I can see. ;-)

Richard was the OP. 

> Nope.  Python has no ability to interface to something that is
> defined only at the assembly level (interrupt routines) without
> using assembly.  (I don't even mention C here, as it requires
> special non-standard C extensions to support these things, in
> effect doing a quick escape to assembly.)

My words.... 
 
> I'll add an additional note:  there's a qualitative difference
> between being fast enough to respond to hardware interrupts
> at the 100-CPU cycle sort of level of performance, and at
> a speed 100 times slower.  It's not a matter of just having
> a slower overall system, which might be fine for a prototype
> or a simulation.  In fact *it simply won't work*.  That's
> because if hardware interrupts aren't answered fast enough,
> in most non-trivial cases _information will be lost_, and
> that means the system is broken.  That's the definition of
> a "hard realtime system", by the way, and an unfortunate
> reason that Python in its current form (i.e. assuming its
> bytecode interpreted rather than compiled to some kind of
> native code) cannot ever be used at the lowest levels of
> an OS.

Yup. And writing an OS is exactly about these nitty gritty things -
otherwise, its only a collection of more or less useful lib routines. So
writing a "virtual os" that doesn't have to deal with problems like these
is barely useful for teaching anything about  writing an os at all... 

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From ch.pingel at web.de  Fri Nov 19 05:25:29 2004
From: ch.pingel at web.de (Christoph Pingel)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:25:29 +0100
Subject: orange + bus error - is there a 'usual' reason?
Message-ID: <a0610050cbdc378c14786@[80.139.60.165]>

Trying to import the 'orange' datamining module, I get a bus error 
and python crashes (Python 2.3 on Mac OS X). Tried it with an older 
lib that runs on another mac, with orange inside orange.app, and with 
a lib I compiled from source myself.
I'm wondering if there is anything wrong with my Python installation, 
for the orange.app (which is mainly a qt-wrapper for the python 
scripts and orange lib) runs without problems whatsoever.
Is there any 'general' reason for bus errors so that I could begin to 
track down the problem? Any ideas for mac-specific compiler settings 
that I could play with?

Any input is highly appreciated.

best regards,
Christoph


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Sun Nov  7 13:00:46 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 16:00:46 -0200
Subject: cherrypy/cheetah vs twisted/nevow
In-Reply-To: <69cbbef2.0411070346.6c6c0eaf@posting.google.com>
References: <slrncoc0tr.1tc7.charlotte@xs2.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.5766.1099319968.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418818ca$0$19452$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5867.1099489510.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<69cbbef2.0411050857.6dfe11bd@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6014.1099765795.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<69cbbef2.0411070346.6c6c0eaf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041107100070fbe689@mail.gmail.com>

On 7 Nov 2004 03:46:43 -0800, has <has.temp2 at virgin.net> wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.6014.1099765795.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> 
> > I'm not sure if I understand your point, and it may be the case that
> > I'm really missing something. I think that, by its very definition,
> > templating systems (including variables, conditionals, loops, and
> > other control structures) *do* mix some aspects from the model into
> > the view.
> 
> You're confusing presentation logic with business logic. In MVC, only
> *business* logic should go in the Model layer; presentation logic
> belongs elsewhere. The Model does *not* dictate how the User Interface
> layer(s) should receive input or present data. Think of the Model as a
> complete program within another program, containing all the smarts
> needed to do its job but providing no way for end-users to interact
> with that data. All it supplies is an API into which user-interface
> code can connect.

Well, there are lots of stuff that deserve commenting here. But I feel
that we aren't very far from each other (though my terminology
definitely needs improvement :-).

I agree that presentation logic (the term that I was missing) is
different from business logic. But I still think that the more you can
take the presentation logic *out* of the HTML template, the better.
That's my point when I talk about the reporting example.

I may be wrong, because I never programmed Macs, but I think that in
the original Apple MVC implementation, you had "resources" (that
stored the form definitions), and there was code to fill the form with
data ("presentation logic", right?). I have a lot of experience with
Delphi, that is also based on the same concept. In both cases (Apple
and Delphi), the resource is clearly separated from the code; they're
in separate files, and use different languages. This example shows one
of the problems with (many) templating systems; one has to write both
the 'resource' (the HTML Template) and the 'presentation logic' in the
same file.

Now, I'm reallly struggling to catch up with a lot of stuff, and I
don't know about HTMLTemplate, so I have to take your word for it; you
say it's good, and it separates the presentation logic from the
template, and that's what I am looking for. I'll check it now. Thanks
for the all the info.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Nov 16 11:58:52 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:58:52 +0100
Subject: determining the number of output arguments
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <cndbi7$hrd$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Jeremy Bowers wrote:

> the instances I do have is a tree iterator that on every "next()" returns
> a depth and the current node, because the code to track the depth based
> on the results of running the iterator is better kept in the iterator than
> in the many users of that iterator. But I don't like it; I'd rather make
> it a property of the iterator itself or something, but there isn't a
> code-smell-free way to do that, either, as the iterator is properly a
> method of a certain class, and trying to pull it out into its own class
> would entail lots of ugly accessing the inner details of another class.

You could yield Indent/Dedent (possibly the same class) instances whenever
the level changes - provided that the length of sequences of nodes with the
same depth does not approach one.

Peter


From brion at pobox.com  Mon Nov  8 20:40:47 2004
From: brion at pobox.com (Brion Vibber)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 17:40:47 -0800
Subject: unicodedata . normalize (NFD - NFC) inconsistency
In-Reply-To: <6rouo0timlrp4ddhoh88a38ftpekms75va@4ax.com>
References: <6rouo0timlrp4ddhoh88a38ftpekms75va@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <2valh1F2igeo2U1@uni-berlin.de>

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
 > I found at least one case where decombining and recombining a unicode
 > character does not result in the same character (see at end).
 >
 > I have no extensive knowledge about Unicode, yet I believe that this
 > must be a problem of the Unicode 3.2 specification and not Python's.

I've been spending some time lately writing a normalizer (in PHP of all 
things -- yeesh!), and yes Unicode is a scary world. :) Although it may 
seem counterintuitive, it is in fact perfectly legitimate for a 
character not to be its own canonical composition.

>>>>u1=u'\N{greek small letter alpha with oxia}'
>>>>report(u1)
> 
> 8049 GREEK SMALL LETTER ALPHA WITH OXIA

This character is a "singleton decomposition". It decomposes into GREEK 
SMALL LETTER ALPHA WITH TONOS, which further decomposes into GREEK SMALL 
LETTER ALPHA and a COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT.

It is by definition not normalized, so when you normalize it to form C 
it will turn into GREEK SMALL LETTER ALPHA WITH TONOS; there is no way 
to get "back" to the original character in a normalized string. For some 
more info see:
http://www.unicode.org/unicode/reports/tr15/#Primary_Exclusion_List_Table

>>>>u2=ud.normalize('NFD', u1)
>>>>report(u2)
> 
> 945 GREEK SMALL LETTER ALPHA
> 769 COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT
> 
>>>>u3=ud.normalize('NFC', u2)
>>>>report(u3)
> 
> 940 GREEK SMALL LETTER ALPHA WITH TONOS

You should get this same result directly for ud.normalize('NFC', u1). 
Converting directly to NFC should always give the same result as 
converting to NFD and then NFC. Either will give you back the string you 
started with if and only if it's already normalized to form C.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


From exarkun at intarweb.us  Sun Nov 14 15:01:32 2004
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (exarkun at intarweb.us)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 20:01:32 GMT
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041114200132.20649.1982992758.divmod.quotient.5222@ohm>

On 14 Nov 2004 11:09:38 -0800, hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant) wrote:
>Hello all,
> 
> So Zope still lives, yay.  Well, I like that they use Python.  
> 
> <rant>
> 
> What amazed me is they write that they "added types to the variables
> and hope that it will be added to the Python project too".  Really. 
> ROFL.

  Guido has repeatedly stated that a future version of Python will include static type support.  The Zope project has driven numerous past changes to Python.  What's funny about this?

  Jp


From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Fri Nov 26 13:58:02 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 19:58:02 +0100
Subject: Number of colors in an image
In-Reply-To: <41a77a69$0$1067$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>
References: <mailman.6820.1101494223.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41a77a69$0$1067$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1085906393.20041126195802@geochemsource.com>

Hello Will,

Friday, November 26, 2004, 7:48:08 PM, you wrote:

> Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:
>>   Hello,
>> 
>> How can I determine the number of colors used in an image? I tried to
>> search on Google but I could figure out. I read the PIL handbook but I
>> do not see how to do it. Can anyone help?

> You may get a better response on how to do it in Python, but the 
> following C++ code should be easy to translate if necessary. All it 
> requires is a get pixel function.

> int CImage::CountUsedColours() const
....

> Regards,

> Will McGugan

Yes, this can be efficient in C++. I'm not sure but possible it is not
so efficient in Python. Also it would be far better to have direct
access to the pixels (and not using a method/function). Now I'm
thinking about ImageMagick and something like this:

        f = os.popen('identify -verbose ' + fullpath + ' | grep -e "Colors:"')
        s = f.read()
        index = s.find(':')
        color_count = long( (s[index+1:]).strip() )

Probably ImageMagick uses direct access to pixels but it still take
seconds to run. It is not that portable but I'll stay at this version.

:-)

Thank you very much.

-- 
Best regards,
 Laszlo

 mailto:gandalf at geochemsource.com
 web:http://designasign.biz
 



From eternalsquire at comcast.net  Thu Nov  4 00:22:18 2004
From: eternalsquire at comcast.net (The Eternal Squire)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 22:22:18 -0700
Subject: pep 336: Make None Callable
Message-ID: <S-6dncb1OqobIRTcRVn-jw@comcast.com>


Terry Reedy wrote:

 > "The Eternal Squire" <eternalsquire at comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw at comcast.com...
 >
 >> PEP: 336
 >> Abstract
 >>
 >>    None should be a callable object that when called with any
 >>    arguments has no side effect and returns None.
 >
 >
 >
 > Please no.  The None object, by definition, is an object with no 
value, no behavior (except compares), and no specific attributes (other 
than those common to all descendents of object).


I always saw None not as an object without value, but as the universal
false or ground symbol, similar to NIL in Lisp.

That one can currently compare None

 > to other objects can be considered a bug, and this might go away in 
the future.
 >
 > Anyone who wants a null function can write it in about 20 keypresses, 
and include it in a utility module if one has one.


But isn't the point of Pythonic style to write something as tersely 
elegant as possible?  I'd rather not see a bunch of null methods 
sprinkled thru the classes in the libraries that I have to write, and
I'd rather not to have to import it either.

 >
 > It would be more sensible to promote the addition to builtins of a 
predefined null function -- one somewhat equivalent to 0, [], and {}.
 >

I'd like to see it standardized, and I'd like to see it intuitively 
obvious.  That's why None appears to me to be such an obvious candidate.
If None is seen as the ground symbol that happens to evaluated to false
in logical expressions, that it would seem to make sense to say that
calling the symbol is another form of evaluation of the symbol, and so
if evaluating None as a value results in None, then evaluating None as
a call should also result in None.

 > Terry J. Reedy
 >
 >
 >
 >


From hanzhupeng at kingsoft.net  Wed Nov 10 21:49:21 2004
From: hanzhupeng at kingsoft.net (hanzhupeng)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:49:21 +0800
Subject: Sorting email addresses by domain
Message-ID: <20041111025050.5255C1E4002@bag.python.org>

Jp Calderone:

	 It's cool . tkx
	



>On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 01:58:35 -0000, "Peter Murray" <pdmurray at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>Hi! I hope someone can assist me, I have been using Python for a year or
>> two, but I am not a programmer and only use it occasionally for small issues
>> or just for fun. So I perhaps do not have the right 'mindset' to always see
>> the answer to a problem.
>> 
>> Anyway, I have a list of email address and I want to sort them by domain.
>> List.sort() wont work as this looks at the start of each address only. So
>> the answer I have come up with is to split each email address around the
>> "@", swap the position of the name and domain, build a new list with these
>> and then sort this. Then switch positions back, and join with an "@". It
>> works, but it seems a little inelegant. Is there a better, or easier way to
>> do this?
>
>  In Python 2.3,
>
>    def key(addr):
>        parts = addr.split('@')
>        parts.reverse()
>        return parts
>    addresses.sort(lambda a, b: cmp(key(a), key(b)))
>
>  In Python 2.4, re-using the above definition of key:
>
>    addresses.sort(key=key)
>
>  Jp
>-- 
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
			

?????????
??
 
				 
????????hanzhupeng
????????hanzhupeng at kingsoft.net
??????????2004-11-11


From OlafMeding at compuserve.com  Thu Nov 18 12:09:40 2004
From: OlafMeding at compuserve.com (Olaf Meding)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 09:09:40 -0800
Subject: PyChecker "self is argument in staticmethod"
Message-ID: <9e5ea2c4.0411180909.35db39d5@posting.google.com>

What does the below PyChecker warning mean?

More importantly, is there a way to suppress it?

 PyChecker warning:
  ..\src\phaseid\integration.py:21: self is argument in staticmethod


My best guess is that the warning is related to PyChecker not
supporting C++ extensions.


Thanks much for your help.

Olaf


From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Nov 15 03:20:23 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:20:23 -0800
Subject: os.path.exists discrepancy
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E32451F5@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Andreas Kostyrka wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 14, 2004 at 11:47:18PM -0800, Robert Brewer wrote:
> > <!-- scan image not found: 
> u'S:/Scans/Projects/2004/TJ/04TJ0267.jpg' -->
> > 
> > As you can see, the two paths are equal. Prompting my 
> reaction: bzuh? My
> > next thought was to read through the os module source--perhaps the
> > import of "path" was dependent on context. It is, but 
> os.path.__file__
> > is the same in both contexts: 'C:\\Python23\\lib\\ntpath.pyc'
> > 
> > Any ideas or workarounds?
>
> Permissions? Even Windows know these nowadays ;) -> and it's probable
> that the Webserver runs with minimal priviledges ;)

Bah. I bet you're right. The webserver runs as LocalSystem, and the
folder in question is a mapped drive on another machine. I'll test that
tomorrow.

Thanks!


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov  8 09:30:18 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 15:30:18 +0100
Subject: psycopg, transactions and multiple cursors
References: <cmnqpk$2gh$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<cmnroq$raf$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<cmnso7$iih$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cmnud5$uph$1@news4.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
Message-ID: <cmnvto$p6l$05$1@news.t-online.com>

> AFAIK, you can't open a transaction w/o using a cursor; You need a query
> that says "BEGIN;".
> You can commit a connection object, however. It would be nice to be able
> to start a transaction on a connection object, but then you still could
> only have one transaction per connection... :(

thats actually the case for all DBs I know including e.g. oracle with jdbc -
so the abstraction layers usually use connection pooling to speed up
opening a connection thus the app doesn't suffer so much.


> Aside from that, it turns out that the first query gets committed, even
> though the transaction should have failed. This probably just indicates
> that the transaction indeed is closed too soon, however, I didn't tell
> it to commit. Shouldn't it issue a rollback instead? [This would
> probably confuse people, but is it correct to do otherwise? Shouldn't it
> rollback if you don't commit?]

No idea why thats happening - on jdbc, one can set an "autocommit"
connection property that will do exactly that: enforce a commit if a
statement was successful. Maybe psycopg has that too?

> I know PostgreSQL can do transactions on nested cursors, I have used
> that now and then in stored procedures (pl/pgsql).

I didn't find much on nested cursors on google, so I don't know how they
work - but I assume if they are part of psycopg, they somehow have to be
created using an existing cursor, as otherwise how should psycopg know that
what you want is a nested and not a new cursor.

So is there something on cursor objecst to get a new cursor, or at least the
connection so you can get a cursor on the very same connection?


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Fri Nov  5 12:33:33 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 17:33:33 GMT
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com> <2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnconebd.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>


I had already compiled a little file of clips plus the two definitions I
had seen so far.

But your summary is better, so it goes into my summary file, too. ;-)


Cheers,
gabriel.

-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| There are works which wait,                                             |
| and which one does not understand for a long time; [...]                |
| for the question often arrives a terribly long time after the answer.   |
|                                                         (Oscar Wilde)   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 09:28:47 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 12:28:47 -0200
Subject: Named tuples
In-Reply-To: <ae2nd.626884$8_6.188811@attbi_s04>
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<10pntj5m0spvl3f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.6521.1100740991.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<hcUmd.520265$mD.141102@attbi_s02> <419c20da.344317031@news.oz.net>
	<k3Wmd.45854$V41.9126@attbi_s52>
	<mailman.6539.1100779323.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns95A58409D7845duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<mailman.6546.1100786294.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ae2nd.626884$8_6.188811@attbi_s04>
Message-ID: <864d37090411180628e5fe6ca@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:21:58 GMT, Bryan <belred1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> > I think that a better way to solve the problem is to create a names
> > method on the tuple itself:
> > 
> > return ('1', '2').names('ONE', 'TWO')
> >
> > It's shorter and clean, and avoids a potential argument against named
> > parameters for the tuple constructor -- none of the standard
> > contructors take named parameters to set extended behavior as far as I
> > know.
> >
> 
> but doesn't this feel more pythonic and more consistant?
> 
> return ('ONE':'1', 'TWO':'2')

The problem is that it involves changing the language, and at this
point, the idea is to devise a solution that *doesn't* need to change
the language. But it's a possibility for the future, after a simpler
version of the same basic feature is approved and implemented.


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Tue Nov 30 17:52:33 2004
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:52:33 -0500
Subject: pre-PEP generic objects
In-Reply-To: <41acd7fb$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <a8Oqd.110119$V41.14593@attbi_s52>
	<slrncqoio4.1uu.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<41acd7fb$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <20041130225233.GA16829@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Scott David Daniels]

> You can simplify this:
> class Hash(object):
>     def __init__(self, **kwargs):
>         for key,value in kwargs.items():
>             setattr(self, key, value)

Might it be:

    def __init__(self, **kwargs):
        self.__dict__.update(kwargs)

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://pinard.progiciels-bpi.ca


From Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU  Thu Nov 11 15:05:27 2004
From: Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU (Michael J. Fromberger)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:05:27 -0500
Subject: html parsing?  Or just simple regex'ing?
References: <pan.2004.11.10.01.37.41.879705@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <Michael.J.Fromberger-F600D4.15052711112004@localhost>

In article <pan.2004.11.10.01.37.41.879705 at dcs.nac.uci.edu>,
 Dan Stromberg <strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu> wrote:

> I'm working on writing a program that will synchronize one database with
> another.  For the source database, we can just use the python sybase API;
> that's nice and normal.
> 
> [...]
> 
> 1) Would I be better off just regex'ing the html I'm getting back?  (I
> suppose this depends on the complexity of the html received, eh?)
> 
> 2) Would I be better off feeding the HTML into an HTML parser, and then
> traversing that datastructure (is that really how it works?)?

I recommend you look at BeautifulSoup:

  http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/

It is very forgiving of the typical affronts HTML writers put into their 
code.

-M

-- 
Michael J. Fromberger             | Lecturer, Dept. of Computer Science
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~sting/  | Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH, USA


From Florian.Wilhelm at web.de  Tue Nov  9 19:05:36 2004
From: Florian.Wilhelm at web.de (Florian Wilhelm)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 01:05:36 +0100
Subject: Problems with user input
References: <pan.2004.11.09.22.54.37.120023@web.de>
	<cmrkpc$1at$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.10.00.05.35.779384@web.de>

Thank you very much!

That solved both problems!



From niels_bohr at uol.com.br  Tue Nov  9 17:52:53 2004
From: niels_bohr at uol.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio?= Mendes)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 20:52:53 -0200
Subject: Concise idiom to initialize dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <20041109183738.GF3567@unpythonic.net>
References: <89D59C407D04D54AA82DC8BA312D430D10C61759@enyc11p32001.corpny.csfb.com>
	<20041109183738.GF3567@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <1100040773.14227.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>

> Perhaps you want a dict of dicts.
>     d = dict([(s, {}) for s in 'abc...z'])
> now refer to d['a'][key] instead of a[key]

Or even:
>>> a,b,c,d = [ {} for i in range(4) ]  

Fabio


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Fri Nov  5 17:33:08 2004
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 16:33:08 -0600
Subject: Wrapping or converting Perl module?
In-Reply-To: <418C503E.9020800@ceid.upatras.gr>
References: <200411030759.15909.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
	<mailman.5939.1099609759.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418C503E.9020800@ceid.upatras.gr>
Message-ID: <200411051633.08338.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Friday 05 November 2004 10:17 pm, Stelios Xanthakis wrote:
> Terry Hancock wrote:
> > 1) Wrap a perl module the way you would a C module
> >    (does this ever make sense to do?)
> I don't know if it helps but do you know the "pyperl" module.
> It's rather interesting.

No I didn't.  I'm surprised I didn't find it when googling
for a solution, but voila, typing "pyperl" gets some interesting
links.

I still have some trepidation about introducing a Perl
dependency into my code, but this is indeed what I was
looking for.

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From Dennis.Benzinger at gmx.net  Tue Nov 30 08:22:58 2004
From: Dennis.Benzinger at gmx.net (Dennis Benzinger)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:22:58 +0100
Subject: recombination variations
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6911.1101812804.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6911.1101812804.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41ac7430$1@news.uni-ulm.de>

David Siedband wrote:
> [...] 
> Is there a better way to do this?
> [...]

Take a look at Biopython: http://biopython.org/

Your problem may be solved there already.


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov  8 07:19:12 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 13:19:12 +0100
Subject: Python OS
References: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmin1n$500$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.6003.1099752590.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmiorc$j4b$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.6021.1099783808.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmk7r1$4d0$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<mailman.6059.1099837930.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmldu9$a72$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.6080.1099848517.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmlr0j$m3p$00$1@news.t-online.com> <x78y9dquj3.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<cmm23s$7lg$05$1@news.t-online.com> <x74qk1qhnh.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <cmno81$bht$02$1@news.t-online.com>

> If you followed the link in my last post, you saw a paper on one of
> the early LISPMs, which put a virtual LISP machine in silicon. The

>From that page:

"""
n the software of the Lisp Machine system, code is written in only two
languages (or "levels"): Lisp, and CONS machine microcode There is never
any reason to hand-code macrocode, since it corresponds so closely with
Lisp; anything one could write in macrocode could be more easily end
clearly written in the corresponding Lisp. The READ, EVAL, and PRINT
functions are completely written in Lisp, including their subfunctions
(except that APPLY of compiled functions is in micro-code). This
illustrates the ability to write system functions in Lisp.
"""

So they do have a underlying assembler. As I said before: I never doubted
the possibilty to tightly integrate a higher level language that even is
interpreted and a piece of hardware together so that the OS is based on
that hl language. 

But you simply don't _want_ your virtual memory paging code written in
python or (uncompiled) lisp, lest you like to drink lots of coffe sitting
idly in front of your machine :)

> same could be done for JVM. However, the success of LISPMs and Forth
> in silicon would contraindicate doing that.

Then we're not talking about "V"Ms ;) AFAIK there have been attempts to make
java bytecode interpreters in hardware - but I'm not aware that these have
been a large success in the market or even reached a level where they
entered the market at all.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Mon Nov  1 09:29:59 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 09:29:59 -0500
Subject: ruby on rails ... python on ?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>
References: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>
Message-ID: <hfadnfYVCfD51RvcRVn-gw@giganews.com>

flab ba wrote:

> /also/ familiar with Rails - and if they could recommend something in the
> Python world that is comparable.

yeah, zope.

It is so good it does not even look like python on the
surface ... one of the biggest mistakes in developing
web-frameworks is over-emphasizing the underlying
programming language.

A good web-framework should not look like
Ruby or Python, that is not what these languages were
designed for.

Of course the framework should allow easy access to
any class or module written in these languages, but
in the end the most important things are the services
that promote collaboration, allow a finely grained access
control by various means, create a self contained solutions
that can be easily deployed replicated or backed up.
Web frameworks must do the hardest thing of all,
support radically changing requirements.

These overly "programmatic" frameworks revolve around a single
person's ability to understand all aspects of the website,
and crash and burn when that person is not around anymore.

Istvan.



From daniel.dittmar at sap.corp  Mon Nov 15 11:46:39 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.corp (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:46:39 +0100
Subject: Python generators in Java?
In-Reply-To: <ppWdnQCou6jBUQXcRVn-jA@adelphia.com>
References: <ppWdnQCou6jBUQXcRVn-jA@adelphia.com>
Message-ID: <cnamhg$kpj$1@news.sap-ag.de>

Robert Oschler wrote:
> One of my favorite Python features is generators.  I have to use Java for
> one particular project (it happens).  I would like to have something at
> least close to Python's generators for the project.

Sketch:
- create a Queue class
- the 'generator' would run in a thread and put objects into the queue 
(equivalent to yield)
- the 'main' program would run in the main thread and consume objects 
from the queue (equivalent to calling generator.next ())
- the consumer must block if the queue is empty
- the producer must block if the number of objects in the queue exceeds 
a certain amount (queue size = 1 is perfectly acceptable unless the 
producer is I/O bound)
- if you use generators to walk recursive structures, then you probably 
need only one queue instead of one generator for each level.
- perhaps you can get away with one superclass that creates both queue 
and thread, the 'generator' could then be implemented as an anonymous class.

Daniel


From foo at bar.com  Wed Nov 10 19:53:41 2004
From: foo at bar.com (Steve Menard)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:53:41 -0500
Subject: JPype download?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6221.1100108688.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6221.1100108688.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pKykd.44858$ak3.1912879@wagner.videotron.net>

Tim Couper wrote:
> David Morgenthaler wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>>The example I wrote is too long to include here, but
> 
> you can get it at
> 
> http://home.comcast.net/~david.g.morgenthaler/Jpypejms.zip.
> It
> 
> The .zip file doesn't appear to be there?
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> 	
> 	
> 		
> ___________________________________________________________ 
> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Works fine for me. If you still have problem, contact me through 
sourceforge (I am the maintainer for JPype) and I will send it to you 
via email.

Steve


From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Sun Nov  7 18:30:30 2004
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 15:30:30 -0800
Subject: How come wxPython isn't in the standard library?
In-Reply-To: <1099858260.250679.61490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1099858070.544710.146320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1099858260.250679.61490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200411071530.30175.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

On Sunday 07 November 2004 06:43 am, BJ?rn Lindqvist wrote:
> IMHO, this is a no issue. It doesn't matter that much if the source is
> 8 or 26 mb. In fact, 8 mb is extremely small download for a
> programming language.

What am I missing here? Lets look at it from an END USER's perspective. I come 
from a situation where I was sys-admin to where I am the 0 privelige user. I 
wanted to install a python module. So I called in the sys-admin. He tried to 
add it with RPM. This rpm depended on that rpm and that rpm depended on a 
chicken which depended on an egg which, expectedly, depended on a 
chicken--you can guess where this is going.

So I decided I would make my own little universe in my user folder building 
everything from scratch.

To get Tkinter to work, I had to install Tcl/Tk and python, and probably some 
other stuff I already forgot about (blt or something?). That was easy-ish, 
but painful from an END USER's perspective.

I then tried wxPython to take advantage or something or the other module that 
I guess I won't be able to use because I had to install (to make sure every 
library was compatible) a bunch of other libraries (zlib, jpeg, pango, etc.). 
Pango needed gtk+ and didn't like the one my machine already had. (I work at 
an INSTITUTION, not my home office with my customized linux box.) That would 
make two gtk distributions on my machine, causing too many problems for my 
short term attention span to figure out. So I did the only reasonable thing 
an END USER might do in this situation--I said screw it on wxPython and 
whatever module that was that I wanted to use.

Lets try to see things with naieve eyes: how do we think an END USER with few 
administrative priveleges but operating system choices might respond to a 
situation like this? Right! He'll use M$ windows--guaranteed.

Now I think we understand why graphics libraries might have a tough time 
making it into a standard distro. Personally, as an end user who only wants 
to use a program and not re-compile his kernel and such, I vote for tweaking 
out tkinter and making Tcl/Tk/blt/etc. part of the standard distro with that 
18 mb otherwise required for wxPython (as cool as wx might be). One 
installer, wham-bam-program.

James
-- 
James Stroud, Ph.D.
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
611 Charles E. Young Dr. S.
MBI 205, UCLA 951570
Los Angeles CA 90095-1570
http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From larry at portcommodore.com  Sat Nov 13 13:14:26 2004
From: larry at portcommodore.com (Larry Anderson)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 10:14:26 -0800
Subject: Advice needed
References: <1100361297.413616.17890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1100369583.B0xHtDLWff5lyRJbOybqQw@teranews>

Alberto wrote:

> I was trying to understand the reasons why I should learn Python. More
> like a pros/cons about this language. Currently, I use C, C/C++, Java,
> Perl, Visual VB and was looking to see the usefulness of Python.  Any
> suggestions?

Well if you can do more things with python or if python enables you to do
things on other platforms that you can't do now, then those would be good
reasons.  It's all really up to you and whether it will meet YOUR needs. 
Are you hitting walls in the languages you are using?  Can you find
oportunities in using Python?  That's where you need to convice yourself.

My reasons for python:
Cross platform (very important for me)
Inexpensive (very important for me and where I work)
Has loads of hooks & libraries to do just about anything from web apps,
games, printing, creadint PDFs, music, etc.
Easily approachable, readable syntax (should be easier for others to take up
my coding projects)
Interfaces with MySQL (or other database)
Integrated into apps like GIMP.

Larry

-- 
   01000011 01001100 01000001 01010011 01010011 01001001 01000011
Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS  (209) 754-1363  300-14.4k
   Set your 8-bit rigs to sail for http://www.portcommodore.com/
   01010001 01010101 01000001 01001100 01001001 01010100 01011001


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov  1 09:52:04 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 15:52:04 +0100
Subject: global variable not assigned, newbie question
References: <dd1d9b4f.0411010651.27e4ca35@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2un1h8F2cgjhtU2@uni-berlin.de>

You need myNum to be declared global:
 
def setNum():
    global myNum
    myNum = 10
    print myNum

Apart from that, its usually considered bad style using global variables -
better use this:

def calcNum():
    myNum = 10
    return myNum

myNum = calcNum()


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 10 03:06:21 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:06:21 GMT
Subject: Concise idiom to initialize dictionaries
References: <mailman.6164.1100018559.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4191c6b8.74968689@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 16:40:48 -0000, "Frohnhofer, James" <james.frohnhofer at csfb.com> wrote:

>My initial problem was to initialize a bunch of dictionaries at the start of a
>function.
>
>I did not want to do
>def fn():
>	a = {}
>	b = {}
>	c = {}
>	. . .
>	z = {}
>simply because it was ugly and wasted screen space.
>
>First I tried:
>
>	for x in (a,b,c,d,e,f,g): x = {}
>
>which didn't work (but frankly I didn't really expect it to.)
>Then I tried:
>
>	for x in ('a','b','c','d','e','f','g'): locals()[x]={}
>
>which did what I wanted, in the interpreter.  When I put it inside a function,
>it doesn't seem to work.  If I print locals() from inside the function, I can
>see them, and they appear to be fine, but the first time I try to access one
>of them I get a "NameError: global name 'a' is not defined"
>
>Now obviously I could easily avoid this problem by just initializing each
>dictionary, but is there something wrong about my understanding of locals,
>that my function isn't behaving the way I expect?
>
Others explained why locals()[x] worked interactively, and not in a function,
but if you just want a one-liner, you could just unpack a listcomp:

 >>> a,b,c = [{} for i in xrange(3)]
 >>> a,b,c
 ({}, {}, {})

If you have single-letter names, you can avoid the count by stepping through the letters:

 >>> x,y,z = [{} for dont_care in 'xyz']
 >>> x,y,z
 ({}, {}, {})

Or if you have a long target list and you can just type it and copy/paste it like:

 >>> fee,fie,fo,fum,bim,bah = [{} for ignore in 'fee,fie,fo,fum,bim,bah'.split(',')]
 >>> fee,fie,fo,fum,bim,bah
 ({}, {}, {}, {}, {}, {})
 >>> map(id, (fee,fie,fo,fum,bim,bah))
 [9440400, 9440976, 9438816, 9441120, 9440256, 9440544]


The dicts are separate, as you can see:

 >>> id(a),id(b),id(c)
 (9153392, 9153248, 9439248)
 >>> a,b,c = [{i:chr(i+ord('0'))} for i in xrange(3)]
 >>> a,b,c
 ({0: '0'}, {1: '1'}, {2: '2'})

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From foo at bar.com  Fri Nov  5 07:54:22 2004
From: foo at bar.com (Steve Menard)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 07:54:22 -0500
Subject: JMS for CPython via JPype?
In-Reply-To: <zquegn6d2whw.cmuw17wwiixu$.dlg@40tude.net>
References: <1b2k1czwwox4i$.ae466jlsmeu2$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<b9Yhd.50895$ag5.2219651@wagner.videotron.net>
	<zquegn6d2whw.cmuw17wwiixu$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <7KKid.39488$ab.575312@weber.videotron.net>

Wolfgang Keller wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> and thanks for your reply.
> 
> 
>>>would JPype make it possible 
>>>for a CPython program to use JMS? 
> 
>  
> 
>>I am not very well versed in JMS, but unless it absolutely REQUIRE 
>>subclassing, JPype will allow you to make full use for it without problem.
>>
>>How to actually interpret the contents of the JMS message is left as an 
>>exercise to the reader ;)
> 
> 
> Err, does JPype not provide something for interfacing with Java like CTypes
> provides it for interfacing with C? I.e. working with Java/C types in
> Python as if they were Python variables?
> 
> TIA,
> 
> Regards
> 
> Wolfgang Keller

Indeed it does. For the most part, Java classes can be used just like 
regular Python classes.

What I meant is that JMS messages can contain just about ANYTHING. 
Serialized Java classes, XML, plain text, etc ... Of course, if a 
regular Java program cna generate/interptet the contents, A python+Jpype 
program will be able to do it too. Again, with the same caveat that 
JPype does not (yet) support subclassing Java classes in python.


Steve Menard


From mefjr75 at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 12 19:55:15 2004
From: mefjr75 at hotmail.com (M.E.Farmer)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 16:55:15 -0800
Subject: Regarding color conversion (RGB->CMYK)
References: <4194bd54$0$75308$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <18282ecb.0411121655.6dfb471e@posting.google.com>

Johan Holst Nielsen <spam at phpgeek.dk> wrote in message news:<4194bd54$0$75308$edfadb0f at dread15.news.tele.dk>...
> Hi all,
> 
> I hope someone can help me.
> 
> I have do do a color conversion from RGB to CMYK. It's harder than I 
> thought :D Anyway, here is my problem.
>[snip]
> After that my thoughts was on PIL (Python Imaging Library). The colors 
> was better - but to bright - cause it didn't include K (so it was 
> basicly a RGB=>CMY conversion - Black is 100% Cyan, Magenta and Yellow).
> I tried some googling - and again - some people said that PIL shouldn't 
> be used for images that should be printed "professional".
This link might be a start.
'http://mail.python.org/pipermail/image-sig/2001-March/001386.html'
Basically you are right the conversion is not straightforward and is
somewhat error prone. Most of the time you have to tweak the colors,
especially the deep blues. It is somewhat unavoidable when you map a
additive colorsystem to a subtractive colorsystem. Maybe others might
have a commandline hack for you.

HTH,
   M.E.Farmer


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Nov 30 14:47:51 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:47:51 -0500
Subject: Python 2.4c1 vs. 2.4
In-Reply-To: <bebbba07.0411301122.5aeb3530@posting.google.com>
References: <bebbba07.0411301122.5aeb3530@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <coiio7$92r$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Russ wrote:
> My sysadmin recently installed 2.4c1 on our network. Should we now
> install 2.4, or is it the same as 2.4c1? Thanks.

See
http://www.python.org/2.4/NEWS.html


-Peter


From export at hope.cz  Mon Nov 15 13:48:06 2004
From: export at hope.cz (Lad)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 10:48:06 -0800
Subject: How to pass a parameter
Message-ID: <81a41dd.0411151048.78af4fd3@posting.google.com>

I have a sript that downloads a webpage. According to the picture  on 
this webpage I need to pass a parameter to this , running script a few
lines later.
How can I do that?
Thanks for help
Lad


From terti at mighty.co.za  Mon Nov 29 13:52:34 2004
From: terti at mighty.co.za (tertius)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:52:34 +0200
Subject: date diff calc
In-Reply-To: <cofpo9$1va$05$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <K_-dnRIyHJPs_DbcRVn-jg@is.co.za>
	<cofpo9$1va$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <9fOdnRhSYreJ7TbcRVn-rw@is.co.za>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
  >
> I can't imagine what could possibly be easier than subtracting two dates -
> in fact, most times one has to jump through much more hoops to achieve
> these results, e.g. in java.
> 
I'll try that.

Thanks,
T


From domma at procoders.net  Sat Nov  6 15:19:50 2004
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma (Procoders))
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 21:19:50 +0100
Subject: Pythonbindings for Subversion
Message-ID: <cmjbl0$4v9$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

I'm looking for precompiled binaries of the SWIG Python 2.3 bindings for 
Subversion. I need them for http://www.edgewall.com/trac/ which does not 
work with PySvn.

Can anybody help?

regards,
Achim


From someone at microsoft.com  Sat Nov 27 18:53:10 2004
From: someone at microsoft.com (Jive)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 23:53:10 GMT
Subject: A lock that times out but doesn't poll
References: <slrncq5vvl.61m.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<kJqpd.5108720$ic1.478957@news.easynews.com>
	<uis7sxu95.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <Gr8qd.5826881$6p.937672@news.easynews.com>


"David Bolen" <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote in message
news:uis7sxu95.fsf at fitlinxx.com...
> "Jive" <someone at microsoft.com> writes:
>
> > I did find the MS-Windows timed lock extension though.
>
> That's pretty much what I use when I need them (at least under
> Windows).  For example, in a recent application I had a serious need
> for low latency events and minimizing CPU while blocked.  Switching
> from the threading.Event to a Win32 event object was a big win on both
> fronts, and are pretty drop-in in terms of functionality.  I imagine
> there is something similar in pthreads, but have not had the need
> there yet.
>
> Probably the best way to support this sort of thing in Python itself
> is with OS-specific blocks for cases which are easy to do and fall
> back to the current implementation in others.  But as has been posted
> here before, that needs someone to make, test and then propose the
> changes.
>
> -- David

Ah ha!  You understand.  I live and breath this stuff.  You too?

Here is a common example from my line of work: You set a piece of machinery
into motion.  If everything is operating normally, it will reach a certain
point and interrupt a light beam.  You must react to that event instantly.
However, if it has not interrupted the beam after some longer time, you must
wake up because something is wrong.

> Probably the best way to support this sort of thing in Python itself
> is with OS-specific blocks for cases which are easy to do and fall
> back to the current implementation in others.  But as has been posted
> here before, that needs someone to make, test and then propose the
> changes.

I would ammend that to read, "fall back on an improvement of the current
implementation," but otherwise I agree.

A year ago I volunteered (on this group) to do the general work, and the
specific module for Windoze.  I was told,  "Just post your cute little code
to some free software repository somewhere."  At least that's the way I felt
at the time. Of course, no one here knows "Jive" from Adam.  There is a
tendency on the net to assume anyone you don't recognise is a clueless
newbie, and everything they post is naive blather. I've been cruising and
using the newsgroups under one name or another since the mid 80's.

So where was I before I went off into old fart mode?  Oh yeah.  It really
should go into the main Python distribution.




From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Mon Nov 22 14:51:23 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 19:51:23 GMT
Subject: split large file by string/regex
References: <v5l872-sd4.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.6695.1101132348.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<7m9972-0c6.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <30eu9qF2vfdciU1@uni-berlin.de>

Martin Dieringer <dieringe at zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> Jason Rennie <jrennie at csail.mit.edu> writes:
> 
> > On Mon, Nov 22, 2004 at 09:38:55AM +0100, Martin Dieringer wrote:
> >> I am trying to split a file by a fixed string.
> >> The file is too large to just read it into a string and split this.
> >> I could probably use a lexer but there maybe anything more simple?
> >
> > If the pattern is contained within a single line, do something like this:
> 
> Hmm it's binary data, I can't tell how long lines would be. OTOH a
> line would certainly contain the pattern as it has no \n in it... and
> the lines probably wouldn't be too large for memory...

man strings	(-o option)

-- 
William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 


From jack at performancedrivers.com  Thu Nov  4 23:07:30 2004
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 23:07:30 -0500
Subject: Has anyone released a Python "mock filesystem" for automated
	testing?
In-Reply-To: <OImdnYXxIItbfhfcRVn-iA@powergate.ca>
References: <OImdnYXxIItbfhfcRVn-iA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <20041105040729.GU16033@performancedrivers.com>

On Thu, Nov 04, 2004 at 09:31:04PM -0500, Peter Hansen wrote:
> The term "mock filesystem" refers to code allowing unit
> or acceptance tests to create, read and write, and manipulate
> in other ways "virtual" files, without any actual disk
> access.  Everything is held in memory and therefore fast,
> without risk of damaging real files, and with none of the
> messiness of leftover files after testing.
> 
> Googling the archives and the web suggests that only I and
> Remy Blank have done much along these lines.  I don't see
> any sign that anyone has actually released such a beast
> yet, however.

If linux only support is OK you should check out FUSE
http://fuse.sourceforge.net/
It allows userspace implementations of file systems in python.  The gmailfs
(mount your gmail account) uses it. You could use it to write a 'real' file
system that just has no disk backend store.

It would be easy to implement special files to do things for testing,
  echo '1' > /op/nuke # clean everything
  echo '1' > /op/push # push the state of the filesystem
  echo '1' > /op/pop # restore the state of the filesystem to last 'push'
And any other handy thing you can think of.
It has the advantage that you can use regular python files in your
program.  Bugs in the implementation would hurt testing but that is the
case any way you do it.


Unrelated:
I'm strongly tempted to [re]write a simple webapp like a blog as a
filesystem.  Just put apache on top to handle GETs and cat POSTs/PUTs
directly to the filesystem.  Can't get more unix-y than that!

-Jack


From NutJob at gmx.net  Wed Nov 17 12:15:17 2004
From: NutJob at gmx.net (Markus Kemp)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 09:15:17 -0800
Subject: Need function to test if EFFECTIVE UID has read-access to a file.
Message-ID: <9b96ed1.0411170915.2b88da0e@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

Well, basically the title says it all. I can't use os.access() because
it tests whether the REAL UID can read/write/exec the file. Surely
there has to be a function that does what I need, but I can't seem to
find it. Any input welcome.

Regards,

Markus


From benn at cenix-bioscience.com  Wed Nov 24 11:21:10 2004
From: benn at cenix-bioscience.com (Neil Benn)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:21:10 +0100
Subject: teaching OO
In-Reply-To: <WU0pd.19552$ld2.4789270@twister.nyc.rr.com>
References: <slrncq8inq.9gv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<WU0pd.19552$ld2.4789270@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <41A4B4F6.2090602@cenix-bioscience.com>

<snip>

>As for the interesting C++ issues, those same students were able to pick
>those concepts up quickly in their later classes. "Overloading", for
>example, was a pretty simple concept to grasp for people who had previously
>spent a whole semester heads down learning OO. 
>
>Rob
>  
>
Hello,

          Just out of interest, did the students get confused between 
polymorphism acheived through duck-typing and polymorphism acheived 
through inheritence.  Obviously not all OO languages have duck typing 
and they are subtly different concepts which may confuse a learner.

    Just a question, I'm not in education so I wouldn't know the best 
way to perform structured education (my teacher friends remind me of 
this all the time!!).

Cheers,

Neil

-- 

Neil Benn
Senior Automation Engineer
Cenix BioScience
BioInnovations Zentrum
Tatzberg 47
D-01307
Dresden
Germany

Tel : +49 (0)351 4173 154
e-mail : benn at cenix-bioscience.com
Cenix Website : http://www.cenix-bioscience.com



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov  2 14:40:53 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 19:40:53 GMT
Subject: List problem
References: <clttqo$gfu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
	<mailman.5668.1099072329.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<v2m9o0d7d1v3h4doumfkmb4djk41u0gb9c@4ax.com>
	<1gmiyon.jvyq1w1ob9r59N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41853d5f.1278687054@news.oz.net>
	<1gmjqh9.oialil1r1xwffN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41858eaa.1299498379@news.oz.net>
	<1gmkg86.1nzf8g91e7yby5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<418603c1.1325873395@news.oz.net>
	<1gmkjv7.fmssxmzmspbhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4187e1bf.1448239858@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 11:01:15 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

>Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
>   ...
>> >I ran these on an 800 MHz laptop, the one I invariably use for netting
>> >-- best ergonomics.  OK, I'll try with faster machines when I get a
>> >chance -- I'm surprised you measure almost a 1:2 ratio with _br faster.
>> >
>> Maybe the listcomp optimizations were introduced in 2.3.4? Or even 2.4.x?
>
>2.4, I think.
>
>> I have Python 2.3.2 on an old 300 MHz P2 with 320 MB RAM and NT4 as OS,
>> so the mystery deepens ;-)
>
>The real mistery is why you don't download and install 2.4b1, which can
>perfectly live side by side with your (outdated) 2.3 install...!-)
>
>Python's quality depends on people downloading and trying out the betas,
>after all.  If knowledgeable enthusiasts like you don't do it, who?-)
>
Ok, I made an effort ;-) The newfangled M$ installer is not compatible
with my NT4 service pack level, so I will have to build from tgz. Ok, but
my disk is too full for that at the moment ;-( So it will have to wait.
Sorry.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Fri Nov 19 13:42:25 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 10:42:25 -0800
Subject: using the bsddb from Python (missing docs!)
References: <4edc17eb.0411180549.33719f1e@posting.google.com>
	<cnk73p$113$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0411191042.64ee3c7@posting.google.com>

vincent wehren <vincent at visualtrans.de> wrote in message news:<cnk73p$113$1 at news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>...
> The bsddb3 package has become part of the standard library as of 2.3, I 
> believe. The docs for this "full blown" bsddb package are not (yet) part 
> of Python docs, but off-site on http://pybsddb.sourceforge.net/bsddb3.html.

I am a bit confused about pybsddb; is pybsddb exactly the same as the module 
bsddb in Python 2.3+ ? Originally I thought that pybsddb had more stuff in it,
but now I tend to believe that they are the same. It is confusing since the 
docs are not in the standard distribution, so it is not clear if they are the 
same package (as optik and optparse, for instance) or not. Also, the docs 
of pybsddb are kind of terse: there is the API but there are no examples, so 
they are not very suitable for people without previous experience with the 
sleepycat database. This is the reason why I asked is somebody is aware of
some journal article, or tutorial, or other useful stuff.


       Michele Simionato


From news at weatherley.net  Wed Nov 10 10:16:04 2004
From: news at weatherley.net (James Weatherley)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:16:04 -0000
Subject: How to find MAC address and uids?
References: <postmaster-718ADE.06591510112004@news1.east.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <MPG.1bfc40f9a219d2829897d5@News.Individual.NET>

In article <postmaster-718ADE.06591510112004 at news1.east.earthlink.net>, 
postmaster at earthlink.net says...
> I'm writing a script for work and to finnish it, I need two bits of 
> information which I'm having trouble finding.
> 
> 1) How can I programatically find the MAC address of the machine? Is it 
> stored in a file I can look into? (MacOS X)

$ ifconfig | grep ether | awk {'print $2'}
Note that there may be 0, 1 or many MAC addresses.

> 2) If I have a user name in a string how do I get his UID?

This gets the uid for 'james':
$ nireport . /users name uid | grep james | awk '{print $2}'


From mark.doberenz at righthemisphere.com  Mon Nov 29 18:42:30 2004
From: mark.doberenz at righthemisphere.com (Mark Doberenz)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:42:30 +1300
Subject: python API wrapper for C++ API
Message-ID: <7A977E70F2DA7446B6F631A8A66CF18F01754C41@deep.cadtech>

I'm fairly new at Python, but I've got a project I really want to do.
 
I'm working with a real-time 3D program called Deep Creator, and it has
a C++ API written for it.  I'm wondering what it would take to create a
Python wrapper that would allow me to write Python programs that would
call the C++ API.
 
The main issue I'm running into is that I need to create a DLL that I
load as a plugin into Deep Creator.  I then will specify a python
program inside Deep Creator that I want to run, and the DLL plugin will
be the link between the python program and Deep Creator.
 
I'd really appreciate any ideas or issues that people see with this set
up.
 
Thanks,
Mark
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From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 12 05:57:01 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:57:01 +0100
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com> <2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<60dfb6f6.0411050715.601f381f@posting.google.com>
	<2v82u3F2dhtcpU1@uni-berlin.de> <cmoqn9$cbf$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<10p1ud2juqlkb7c@corp.supernews.com>
	<60dfb6f6.0411101037.5cd6a17d@posting.google.com>
	<10p52ccen1ql956@corp.supernews.com>
	<60dfb6f6.0411102119.2091c0d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gn4za8.1sdorbl11cqco5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Carl Banks <imbosol at aerojockey.com> wrote:

> My criteria is not whether the meaning is literal or figurative, but
> whether it's specific.  Solid is; rigid isn't.

Hmmmm... I like to bank with a solid bank --> they won't go bankrupt
tomorrow.  Hopefully they're not rigid --> can accomodate to changing
circumstances.  And the bank's officers have years of solid experience
at their jobs, and deserve my solid trust...


Alex


From caroundw5h at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  8 23:48:01 2004
From: caroundw5h at yahoo.com (caroundw5h)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 20:48:01 -0800
Subject: Problem flushing stderr in embedded python
References: <VoRjd.33$iY3.7@trnddc01>
Message-ID: <aa1af1ad.0411082048.6432d122@posting.google.com>

"Farshid Lashkari" <lashkariNO at SPAMworldviz.com> wrote in message news:<VoRjd.33$iY3.7 at trnddc01>...
> Hi,
> 
> My application has python embedded into it. I noticed that when I run any
> python code the output is buffered and doesn't get flushed until my
> application exits. To fix this I simply flush sys.stdout and sys.stderr
> every once in while by using the following code:
> 
> //Get handle to python stdout file and flush it
> PyObject *pyStdout = PySys_GetObject("stdout");
> if(pyStdout && PyFile_Check(pyStdout)) {
>     PyObject *result = PyObject_CallMethod(pyStdout,"flush",NULL);
>     Py_XDECREF(result);
> }
> 
> //Get handle to python stderr file and flush it
> PyObject *pyStderr = PySys_GetObject("stderr");
> if(pyStderr && PyFile_Check(pyStderr)) {
>     PyObject *result = PyObject_CallMethod(pyStderr,"flush",NULL);
>     Py_XDECREF(result);
> }
> 
> This works for stdout but not for stderr. In order to flush stderr I have to
> do:
> 
> PyRun_SimpleString("sys.stderr.flush()");
> 
> Does anybody know why my first method doesn't work with stderr? I checked
> and PyObject_CallMethod is being called for both objects and no errors are
> occuring. The solution I have is acceptable, but I would still like to know
> why my first method didn't work.
> 
> BTW, I'm running python 2.3 on Windows XP
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Farshid
I'm sorry to notice that you haven't received any responses back to
your questions even though you have found a workaround. I've noticed
this trend quite a lot in the python community and having learned
python first and now C(in order to understand python better) I'm
frankly disspapointed. I believe python and C are a wonderful marriage
but I suppose because many ppl come to python as their intro language
they info on extending and embedding is limited. I myself haven't
started using the python api but will soon, I hope I for one will be
someone who  will be able to provide an answer next time.

Good luck.

BTW: from a C perspective. I don't understand your problem though.
stdout and stderr are the normal output device for your system -
usally your screen. I don't see why you should have to call one via
python sys module.
Perhaps because one doesn't normally flush(stderr) explicity but
flush(stdout).

interested to know as well.


From nehalmistry at gmx.net  Tue Nov 23 17:58:05 2004
From: nehalmistry at gmx.net (Nehal)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:58:05 -0800
Subject: problems uploading zipfile with cgi
In-Reply-To: <D17DB304A9F42B4787B68861F9DAE61C0138067E@wgdc02.wgenhq.net>
References: <D17DB304A9F42B4787B68861F9DAE61C0138067E@wgdc02.wgenhq.net>
Message-ID: <20041123145805.00007313@nehal>

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:21:49 -0500
"Matthew Perpick" <mperpick at wgen.net> wrote:

> 
> Hello All,
> 
> trying to upload a zip file to a python cgi-script and I am
> having some trouble. the form has enctype="multipart/form-data".
> 
> i can access the file as a string like this:
> 
> zip = form.keys['zip_file'].value
> 
> but I cannot seem how to create a ZipFile object from this data.
> It only wants a filename or a "file-like object" in the
> constructor.
> 
> can anyone help? I am a little bit lost.
> 
> Matt
> 
StringIO.StringIO(form.keys['zip_file'].value) will create a
file-like object that you can use to construct the ZipFile
-- Nehal


From oliver.schoenborn at utoronto.ca  Fri Nov 12 10:57:36 2004
From: oliver.schoenborn at utoronto.ca (Humpdydum)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:57:36 -0500
Subject: problem with "setup.py bdist --formats=zip"
Message-ID: <cn2mhg$476$1@nrc-news.nrc.ca>

I would like to create a "binary" distribution for Windows, but in zip
format, since the installer requires root access. I don't want to use sdist
because that includes all the C source and the source for generating
documentation etc.

When I try bdist_dumb, or "bdist --formats=zip", the zip has the files with
*absolute* paths, as found on *my* system. This doesn't seem to make sense,
since anyone with Python not installed in the same place as mine won't be
able to unzip the distribution. Section 6.1 of python 2.3 docs has only one
line of text saying something about "absolute" vs "relative" and "not
implemented yet", somewhat surprising.

So how do people do this? I guess I could create a MANIFEST_bin.in where I
remove all the source stuff I don't want and replace sys.argv[1] with
"sdist" if I find "bdist" there, but that doesn't seem very robust. Plus I
then don't get the benefit of "bdist"-related stuff like putting "win32" in
the zip file name, etc. Surely I'm not the only one who needs this?

Thanks,
Oliver




From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 28 10:54:23 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 10:54:23 -0500
Subject: deleting os files
In-Reply-To: <faf2d781.0411280500.5a71fd2d@posting.google.com>
References: <faf2d781.0411280500.5a71fd2d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41a9f352$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

John Aherne wrote:
> Unfortunately, when it comes to delete, I get a permission error. And
> yes, when I run the program and try to delete the file from the
> command prompt, I get a permission error.
> 
> As far as I can tell, I assume the file is being kept open in the
> DictReader call. But I can't work out how I can close the file -
> .close comand also returns an error. I was assuming that on the return
> from the call the file would be closed - mistakenly I now think.

>     locallist = [(x) for x in os.listdir(localdir) if   
> os.path.getsize(os.path.join(localdir, x)) > 0]     # upload all local
> files
>     localfiles = fnmatch.filter(locallist, '*.OUT')
>     for localname in localfiles:  
>        localpath = os.path.join(localdir, localname) 
>        if localname[-3:] == 'OUT':
>             csv_file = file(localpath)
> 	    reader = csv.DictReader(csv_file,['phone', 'msg', 'PZ', 'MP'])
> 	    for row in reader:
> 	        phone = row['phone']
>                 msg = row['msg']
> 
>             print time.ctime(time.time()),' uploading', msg,  'to',
> phone

             csv_file.close() # after you finish reading the rows

Kent


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  3 16:53:36 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:53:36 +0100
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
	<du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<b16e4ef7.0411030645.216873d3@posting.google.com>
	<du73bzqhmey.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <1gmp685.b540351c59oy4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote:

> Python is no longer the obscure up-and-coming
> scripting language.

Yep, that's what Ruby is for.


Alex


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov  2 15:15:41 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 20:15:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<4187aafe$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<slrncofp1m.dvf.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <loom.20041102T210618-343@post.gmane.org>

Gabriel Zachmann writes:
> 
> I understand strong/weak typing is more like a continuum --
> is there kind of a programming langauges hierarchy sorting various
> langauges accoring to "type-strongness" that is generally agreed upon?

Well, as you can probably see from the discussion, the definition of strong/weak
typing isn't even agreed upon, so I'd be wary of giving a hierarchy. ;)  The two
main interpretations that I've seen in this thread:

(1) Weakly-typed languages allow you to take a block of memory that was
originally defined as one type and reinterpret the bits of this block as another
type[1]. (This is the definition usually used in Programming Languages
literature.)

(2) Weakly-typed languages have more implicit coercions than strongly-typed
languages.  (This seems to be the favored definition on this newsgroup.)

The answer to your question depends on which one of these definitions you're
interested in.  Definition (1) will have a much flatter hierarchy than
definition (2).  Which definition are you interested in?

Steve

[1] see my example at 
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/248983.html



From dripton at ripton.net  Wed Nov 17 09:39:44 2004
From: dripton at ripton.net (David Ripton)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 06:39:44 -0800
Subject: Python 2.2 on Red Hat
References: <BDC02405.3068%oct@redcatmedia.net>
Message-ID: <9b6f95cb.0411170639.6e5c45fc@posting.google.com>

Andy Jacobs <oct at redcatmedia.net> wrote in message news:<BDC02405.3068%oct at redcatmedia.net>...

> I'm trying to install some anti spam software called ASK.  This relies on
> Python2.2 whereas my Cobalt RAQ4 is running 1.5.2 so I need to upgrade from
> RPM.
> 
> I've done a search and everything for Python2.2 says that it's for Red Hat
> 7, 8 or 9.  I'm running 6.  I don't want to just go at this like a bull in a
> china shop so wondered what the advice here might be.

RedHat uses Python 1.5.2 for key OS tools like the Anaconda installer.
 Upgrading /usr/bin/python to something newer than 1.5.2 will break
them.

So you need to put a newer Python somewhere else.

My advice is to install modern Python (like 2.3.4), from source (it's
easy: standard ./configure; make; su; make install), under /usr/local.

Then make sure that ASK usess /usr/local/bin/python instead of
/usr/bin/python, by manipulating the PATH or a shebang line or
whatever.  RedHat's tools are hardcoded to /usr/bin/python so putting
a second Python under /usr/local is safe.


From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Wed Nov 10 16:18:20 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:18:20 GMT
Subject: ConfigParser
References: <nrr3p0d03b1p2pcvk7irgbm1k0nurndehj@4ax.com>
	<35t4p0lou2lmcigaj2ic1fv9b253d5nq6k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <wAvkd.4386$pu3.3613@fe2.texas.rr.com>

"Ivo Woltring" <Python at IvoNet.nl> wrote in message
news:35t4p0lou2lmcigaj2ic1fv9b253d5nq6k at 4ax.com...
> <snip>
> ...the whole question is mute ;-))
>
> Ivo.

The word you are looking for is "moot", not "mute" - this is actually a
common word misuse (known as a "malapropism") even for native English
speakers.  :)

Pedantical-ly yours,
-- Paul




From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Mon Nov  8 20:56:13 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 02:56:13 +0100
Subject: Mixing Python And Bash
References: <mailman.6131.1099954889.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1swlxj7821qzo$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Tom Purl (2004-11-08 21:17 +0100)
> I just wrote a Python script that is going to be called from bash script.
>  If the Python script fails, I want the bash script to also stop running. 
>  Unfortunately, I can't seem to get that to work.  Here's the script so
>  far:
> 
> # custom python script
> /usr/bin/python /home/username/Dev/Python/packZODB.py \ 
>   -s"gsgmc.sigma.zettai.net" -b 7
> 
> # next program
> /usr/bin/someOtherProgram
> 
> I don't want the second program to run if the first program fails.  Isn't
> that the default in bash?  If someone could please point me in the right
> direction regarding this problem, I would really appreciate it.

Hm, not Python but bash related:

if ~/Dev/Python/packZODB.py -s"gsgmc.sigma.zettai.net" -b 7; then
    someOtherProgram; fi


From bingham at cenix-bioscience.com  Tue Nov 30 04:36:28 2004
From: bingham at cenix-bioscience.com (Aaron Bingham)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:36:28 +0100
Subject: comment out more than 1 line at once?
In-Reply-To: <cohc71$2pqli$1@claire.desy.de>
References: <cohc71$2pqli$1@claire.desy.de>
Message-ID: <41AC3F1C.5050404@cenix-bioscience.com>

Riko Wichmann wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> is there a way in Python to comment out blocks of code without putting 
> a # in front of each line? Somethings like C's
>
> /*
>     block of code here is commented out
> */

No.  Why do you want this?  Any good programmer's editor will have a 
comment/uncomment feature to make it easy to comment out whole blocks of 
code at a time using the hash character ('#').

Aaron



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Nov  5 09:26:56 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 09:26:56 -0500
Subject: Has anyone released a Python "mock filesystem" for automated
 testing?
In-Reply-To: <x7is8ksrnh.fsf@guru.mired.org>
References: <OImdnYXxIItbfhfcRVn-iA@powergate.ca>
	<x7is8ksrnh.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <cmg21i$e7$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Mike Meyer wrote:
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> 
>>The term "mock filesystem" refers to code allowing unit
>>or acceptance tests to create, read and write, and manipulate
>>in other ways "virtual" files, without any actual disk
>>access.  Everything is held in memory and therefore fast,
>>without risk of damaging real files, and with none of the
>>messiness of leftover files after testing.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, does your os implement some form of disk in
> memory disk? Go to <URL: http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi > and
> search for either mfs or md for examples.

I need to be cross-platform, so Windows and Linux must both
be supported.  I suspect there isn't good support on Windows
for the sort of thing you describe.

In any case, though I thank you and Jack for the ideas,
the pure-Python in-memory approach seems to be quite
viable and probably quite a bit simpler.  In addition it
allows testing with paths and operations that could not
be safely supported if real file access was permitted at
all, so I think I'll stick with it.

> Second, consider using os.sep for path seperation, so that testing can
> be done correctly for the OS the project is running on. Or possibly a
> flag to indicate whether or not you want to use os.sep.

I've never had to resort to using os.sep myself.  I use
os.path.split() and os.path.join() and it seems they do the
job for me. ;-)

-Peter


From ggg at zzz.it  Fri Nov  5 03:25:54 2004
From: ggg at zzz.it (deelan)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 09:25:54 +0100
Subject: MySQL blobs confusion
In-Reply-To: <3mclo05un9qh2ojufh02ic8me6o7c2mh11@4ax.com>
References: <3mclo05un9qh2ojufh02ic8me6o7c2mh11@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3gdfmc.aq9.ln@news1.interplanet.it>

Kirby Urner wrote:
> I've been testing the Cookbook example 8.6 (2002 edition) re using cPickle to
> insert and retrieve BLOBs from mySQL, using Python's MySQLdb module.
> 
> When I try to cPickle.loads(blob), I get an error telling me that loads wants a
> string, not type array.array.  So I go cPickle.loads(blob.tostring()) instead
> and it works.

see bug:
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=975831&group_id=22307&atid=374932>

''Cursor returns array instead of string for blob column type
The standard cursor class ('Cursor') used to return
MySQL blob row types as Python string values. In
version 1.0 it returns arrays containing a single item
with the string 'c' as key and the blob string as the
value.''


BTW i'm using this code:

pickle.loads(row['meta'])

to unpickle a blob field (in the 'meta' column)
from a mysql4's MyISAM table and it works as-is.

i'm using both mysqldb 1.0.0 (dev box) and
1.1.6 (on the server).

but i'm using DictionaryCursor instead of classic
return-as-tuples Cursor.

cheers,
deelan.

-- 
@prefix foaf: <http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/> .
<#me> a foaf:Person ; foaf:nick "deelan" ;
foaf:weblog <http://www.netspyke.com/> .


From mfuhr at fuhr.org  Fri Nov  5 18:35:50 2004
From: mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 16:35:50 -0700
Subject: executing python code
References: <cmgvvd$chn$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<418c0870$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
	<cmh1t7$d9p$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <418c0e56_1@omega.dimensional.com>

Darren Dale <dd55 at cornell.edu> writes:

> Yes, I did chmod, the script is in the current directory.
>  
> $ mycode.py
> bash: mycode.py: command not found
>
> I just tried:
>
> $ ./mycode.py
>
> and that will execute.

That means the directory isn't in your PATH environment variable,
neither as a full path (/path/to/the/directory) nor as ".", which
means the current directory.  For security reasons it's usually
wise to leave "." out of your PATH, so if you don't want to type
./mycode.py each time then put your scripts in a directory that
PATH knows about.  As others have mentioned, a common place for
a user's private scripts is in ~/bin, that is, the "bin" directory
under your home directory.  If it doesn't exist then you can use
mkdir to create it, and if it's not in your PATH then you'll need
to add it.

-- 
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Tue Nov 16 22:58:15 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:58:15 -0500
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
In-Reply-To: <slrncpjcga.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<4195419b.303035081@news.oz.net>
	<slrncpgm80.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6381.1100534178.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpjcga.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <1f7befae04111619586865dca9@mail.gmail.com>

[Uncle Timmy, explains why Python requires so little of platform
threads]

[Antoon Pardon]
> I don't fault the current Queue implementation. I think your arguments
> are very strong

I don't <0.5 wink>.  Threading support in Python is forever frustrated
by the seeming need not to make trouble for the oddball thread
implementations we have but aren't even sure anyone uses anymore.  For
example, the Python core could benefit from exploiting
platform-supplied thread-local-storage gimmicks.  But we never move in
that direction, because the prospects of implementing it for all the
existing thread_PLATFORM.h wrappers appear too dim.  Instead we rolled
our own implementation of thread-local storage, again building on no
more than "the Python lock".  It's not particularly efficient, and
especially not after I fixed a critical thread race in it just a few
weeks ago, effectively serializing all lookups.

If Python *could* assume, e.g., that only pthreads boxes and Windows
are still interesting (it's clearly impossible that we could get away
with supporting a set that doesn't include those two; it's not clearly
impossible that we could get away with supporting only those two),
then we could assume a much richer set of platform-supplied threading
primitives to build on.

> and I'm not arguing that the current Queue implementation
> should be replaced by a dozen none portable system dependent
> implementation.

That's OK -- the only *effective* away to make that argument would
have been to supply a patch doing all the work yourself anyway <wink>.

> But by limiting the signal module as it is now you make
> it that much harder for people on posix systems to come up for a
> different implementation on those systems.

Who's "you"?  It can't be me.  Since I normally run on Windows, I pay
no attention to the signal module, let alone stay up nights plotting
to make it harder to live with.  Guido is another matter; search
Google for, e.g, quotes like

    Threads and signals don't mix.  Period.  (Only half a smiley. :-)

and

   I admit that I hate signals so badly that whenever I needed to wait
   for a child to finish I would always structure the program around this
   need (even when coding in C).

and

   Why?  I don't think hating signals disqualifies me from understanding
   their problems.

and

   I've always been reluctant about the fact that we had a signal module
   at all -- it's not portable (no non-Unix system supports it well), doesn't
   interact well with threads, etc., etc.; however, C programmers have
   demanded some sort of signal support and I caved in long ago when
   someone contributed a reasonable approach.  I don't regret it like
   lambda, but I think it should only be used by people who really know
   about the caveats.

and

   I wish we could invent a Python signal API that only lets you do one
   of these simple things.

I confess I had a similar hatred of signals in my Unixish days (they
weren't portable, weren't reliable, & usually created debugging
nightmares much worse than the problems uses of signals were
introduced "to solve"), but Guido is the one who'll stab you in the
back today.  I'll just cheer him on <wink>.

> The problem I have with the current implementation is not so much one
> of burden on the system but one of possible "starvation" of a thread.
> 
> Suppose we have a number of consumers on a Queue, some simply
> block and others use timeouts. The current implementation disfavors
> those threads with a timeout too much IMO, because the block
> threads ask for the lock continuosly while the timeout threads only
> ask for the lock periodically.

That's certainly true.  OTOH, I've never written, or worked with, an
app where, for a given Queue, some threads used timeouts but others
didn't.  It seems strained to me.  Then again, I'm not sure I've ever
worked on a real app where any thread used a timeout gimmick with a
Queue.

most-things-that-are-possible-shouldn't-be-done-ly y'rs  - tim


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Mon Nov 22 15:40:03 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:40:03 +0100
Subject: if need small python executable
In-Reply-To: <77969915.0411221152.6f293b6f@posting.google.com>
References: <77969915.0411221152.6f293b6f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41a24ea1$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Nickolay wrote:
> it's easy to create small executable from python code, when using
> assembler compilers. I ask you if need it?

What's an assembler compiler?
I also don't understand your actual question.

--Irmen


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov  3 23:23:15 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 23:23:15 -0500
Subject: pep 336:  Make None Callable
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <cmcarp$5u7$1@sea.gmane.org>


"The Eternal Squire" <eternalsquire at comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw at comcast.com...
> PEP: 336
> Abstract
>
>     None should be a callable object that when called with any
>     arguments has no side effect and returns None.

Please no.  The None object, by definition, is an object with no value, no 
behavior (except compares), and no specific attributes (other than those 
common to all descendents of object).  That one can currently compare None 
to other objects can be considered a bug, and this might go away in the 
future.

Anyone who wants a null function can write it in about 20 keypresses, and 
include it in a utility module if one has one.

It would be more sensible to promote the addition to builtins of a 
predefined null function -- one somewhat equivalent to 0, [], and {}.

Terry J. Reedy







From theller at python.net  Wed Nov  3 12:50:05 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:50:05 +0100
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
References: <cthoeigtdun.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
	<slrncohmqk.n07.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<TfOdna4IePwZexXcRVn-pA@powergate.ca>
	<TbadndhdMqHzaRXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
	<TbadndtdMqGHaBXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
	<6_qdnQZOZ_YYZRXcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <4qk6zusy.fsf@python.net>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Peter Hansen wrote:
>> So the exception managed to get to the new thread, even though
>> I called SetAsyncExc *before* the thread was even created.
>> Now _that's_ what I call "asynchronous". ;-)
>
> Actually, it's what you call pilot error.  I was retrieving
> threading._get_ident() in the thread initializer *before*
> the thread was even started... stupid pilot.
>
> Here's the final working version:
>
>  >>> class T(threading.Thread):
> ...   def __init__(self):
> ...    threading.Thread.__init__(self)
> ...    self.stopped = False
> ...    self.start()
> ...   def run(self):
> ...    self.id = threading._get_ident()
> ...    try:
> ...      while not self.stopped:
> ...         time.sleep(0.1)
> ...    except:
> ...      print 'thread terminated!'
> ...
>  >>> t = T()
>  >>> t
> <T(Thread-7, started)>
>  >>> asyncexc = ctypes.pythonapi.PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc
>  >>> exc = ctypes.py_object(ValueError)
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>  >>> asyncexc(t.id, exc)

I'm not sure this is the way to do it (but py_object is completely
undocumented, so far, and I don't rememeber the details myself).  But,
it is fine to pass the id() of a python object, which is an integer
specifying it's address, when the function expects a PyObject*:

asyncexc(t.id, id(ValueError(42)))

> 1
>  >>> thread terminated!
>
>  >>> t
> <T(Thread-7, stopped)>
>
>
> -Peter

Thomas


From kayschluehr at gmx.de  Sat Nov 20 20:19:34 2004
From: kayschluehr at gmx.de (Kay Schluehr)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 02:19:34 +0100
Subject: Python and generic programming
Message-ID: <419FED26.4030606@gmx.de>

Jive Dadson wrote:

> How about specialization?  I'm relatively new to Python.  I ask for
> information, not to be argumentative.

There is no such thing as template specialisation or method overloading in Python 
due to the lack of static typing. 

> If you have, for example, several data-types for matrices, how do you
> write code that will automatically find the right routine for quickly
> multiplying a vector by a diagonal matrix represented as a vector, and
> automatically call the right code for multiplying by a sparse matrix
> represented by some sparse coding, etc?

Here is some code that enables automatical dispatches according to a chain of
function decorators. The chain is terminated by a decorator that does not force 
any type ( here symbolized by None ) and triggers a default function. The mul()
function in the example defines inner functions that represent different 
algorithms on different types. The mul() function itself does not return the result
of a multiplication, but the list of "specialized" inner functions ( which are in 
fact as generic as all other Python functions, but they can be regarded as
specialized in this context ).

Keep attention that the decorator chain will not work if the decorator

   @when(None,"default")

is not the last one in the chain.


# decorator function

def when(types, name):
    def push(f):        
        def eval(*t):
            funcs = []
            args  = t[3]            
            conds = [t[:2]]
            while 1:
                s = t[2](*t[3])
                if s[-1]=='stop':
                    conds.insert(0,s[:2])
                else:
                    funcs = s
                    break
                t = s            
            for (_types, funcname) in conds:
                bTypesOk = True
                if _types:
                    for (a, t) in zip(args, _types):
                        if not isinstance(a,t):
                            bTypesOk = False
                            break
                if bTypesOk:
                    for f in funcs:
                        if f.func_name == funcname:
                            return f(*args)
                else:
                    bTypesOk = True
            raise NameError,"No available function found that matches default"
                   
        def pop(*args):
            if types is None:
                return eval(types,name,f,args,"stop")
            return types,name,f,args,"stop"        
        return pop
    return push    
        
# example code

from decimal import Decimal
                
@when(None,"default")
@when((int,float),'mul_float')
@when((float,float),'mul_float')
@when((Decimal,Decimal),'mul_dec')

def mul(m1,m2):

    def default(m1,m2):
        return "default",m1*m2

    def mul_float(m1,m2):
        return "mul_float",Decimal(str(m1))*Decimal(str(m2))

    def mul_dec(m1,m2):
        return "mul_dec",m1*m2    

    return (default,mul_dec,mul_float)



Ciao
        Kay



From abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Thu Nov  4 09:06:07 2004
From: abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Ajay)
Date: Fri,  5 Nov 2004 01:06:07 +1100
Subject: seg fault
Message-ID: <1099577167.418a374fbc1fc@www-mail.usyd.edu.au>

hi!

i have some code with a gui that does some processing in another thread,
say t2.
when t2 needs to display something on the gui, it generates an event (which
i have binded earlier). the code runs fine on windows but segfaults on
linux.
the point where it segfaults is when it generates the event.

any ideas why?

the code is

#app.py

import sys
sys.path.append('\\Program Files\\Python\\Lib\\python23.zip\\lib-tk')
sys.path.append('/n/filer1/u1/hons2004/rwhitake/elvin/local/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/')
import os
from Tkinter import *
import tkMessageBox
import tkFileDialog
import tkSimpleDialog
from Queue import Queue
from time import localtime
import threading

import elvin

class Phone:
	def __init__(self, master):
		self.frame = Frame(master)
		self.frame.pack()

		Label(self.frame, text="Enter message", justify=LEFT).grid(row=0)
		self.entryMessage = Entry(self.frame, width=25)
		self.entryMessage.grid(row=1, column=0)
		Button(self.frame, text="Send", command=self.sendMessage).grid(row=4,
column=0)

		v_scrollbar = Scrollbar(self.frame, orient=VERTICAL)
		v_scrollbar.grid(row=5, column=1, sticky=N+S)
		h_scrollbar = Scrollbar(self.frame, orient=HORIZONTAL)
		h_scrollbar.grid(row=6, column=0, sticky=E+W)
		self.answerText = Text(self.frame, width=25, height=15,
xscrollcommand=h_scrollbar.set, yscrollcommand=v_scrollbar.set)
		self.answerText.grid(row=5, column=0, sticky=N+S+E+W)
		self.answerText.config(state=DISABLED)

		self.q = Queue()
		self.reply=""
		self.frame.bind("<<reply>>", self.displayReply)

		self.phnumber = tkSimpleDialog.askstring("Phone number", "Enter
phonenumber", parent=self.frame)
		if self.phnumber is None:
			sys.exit(0)

		self.th = threading.Thread(target=self.setElvin)
		self.th.start()

	def setElvin(self):
		elvin_con = elvin.connect("elvin://praxis.it.usyd.edu.au")
		sub = elvin_con.subscribe("equals(type, 'FREEVO_SMS_REPLY')")
		sub.add_listener(self.answerMessage)
		sub.register()
		elvin_con.run()

	def sendMessage(self):
		message = self.entryMessage.get()
		if message == "":
			tkMessageBox.showerror("Error", "Enter message", parent=self.frame)
			return

		offset = "+1000"
		t=localtime()
		date=str(t.tm_mday) + "/" + str(t.tm_mon) + "/" + str(t.tm_year)
		time=str(t.tm_hour) + ":" + str(t.tm_min) + ":" + str(t.tm_sec)
		con = elvin.connect("elvin://praxis.it.usyd.edu.au")
		con.notify(type="FREEVO_SMS", SMSSource=self.phnumber,
SMSDestination="foo", SMSDate=date, SMSTime=time, SMSGMTOffset=offset,
SMSText=message)

	def answerMessage(self, sub, msg, insec, rock):
		print msg
		self.reply = msg.get("SMSMessage")
		dest = msg.get("SMSDestination")
		if dest == self.phnumber:
			self.frame.event_generate('<<reply>>', when='tail')

	def displayReply(self, event=None):
		self.answerText.config(state=NORMAL)
		self.answerText.insert(INSERT, self.reply+"\n\n")
		self.answerText.config(state=DISABLED)


root = Tk()
phone = Phone(root)
root.mainloop()








----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.


From elbertlev at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  2 11:43:26 2004
From: elbertlev at hotmail.com (Elbert Lev)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 08:43:26 -0800
Subject: Twisted problem
Message-ID: <9418be08.0411020843.7061abc8@posting.google.com>

Hi!


I'm having a problem with twisted on windows. Installed it and started
finger tutorial. All was working fine untill stem 11 - running twistw
(twistd in documentation). It dies with now error indication. Tried
debugin it, but also with no succes: process terminates before getting
to the run() method

def run():
    app.run(runApp, ServerOptions)


Please help.


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 07:18:48 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:18:48 -0200
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
	number of output arguments)
In-Reply-To: <1gnf7n6.1spfeu41yhjcdaN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6392.1100556222.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbg4k.13z20mj1w1o0ysN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de> <419bbf2a.319309032@news.oz.net>
	<1gnf7n6.1spfeu41yhjcdaN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <864d370904111804185f293932@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 08:56:30 +0100, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
> > Still, as Carlos pointed out, formal parameter names
> > are private to a function,
> 
> ? No they're not -- a caller knows them, in order to be able to call
> with named argument syntax.

On my original post I pointed out that named arguments are an
exception to this rule. For the most of the times, the caller does not
*need* to know the internal argument names. Named arguments are
entirely optional, and in fact, if you provide the arguments in the
correct order, you can avoid using them in almost every situation
(**kw being the exception).

The point was: fixing names on the return code introduces coupling.
But after thinking a little bit more, the issue does not seem as clear
to me as before. After all, *some* coupling is always needed, and
positional return values also are "coupled" to some extent. I think
that the named tuples idea is nice because it works entirely
symmetrical with the named arguments; it allows to use a shortcut
positional notation, or to use a named access, at the will of the
programmer, for the same function call.
 
> > I.e., if the dict has additional content, it is not an error
> 
> Agreed, by analogy with '%(foo)s %(bar)s' % somedict.
> 
> > Hm, do you want to go for a dict.get-like default value in that?
> 
> No, enriching dicts to support an optional default value (or default
> value factory) looks like a separate fight to me.  As does syntax sugar,
> IMHO.  If we can get the semantics in 2.5 with a PEP, then maybe sugar
> can follow once the usefulness is established to GvR's contents.

I'm also trying to focus on tuples, so I'm leaving dicts out of this
for now. But clearly named tuples & immutable dicts are closely
related; but of the two, named tuples have an advantage because they
are naturally ordered.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  3 17:06:39 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 23:06:39 +0100
Subject: general class functions
References: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>
	<kj9eo0hkjem9pbj3pvdbpea6gpl06ighsj@4ax.com>
	<a76ba315.0411021009.46b06459@posting.google.com>
	<FPWdnS8cTNnreBrcRVn-qw@rogers.com>
	<a76ba315.0411030818.9457fe3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gmp6em.1ln10wve2zid5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

syd <syd.diamond at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> But more importantly, why is subclassing object a good practice in

"Subclassing object" gives you newstyle classes, instead of the default
classic classes we're stuck with, for backwards compatibility, until a
Python 3.0 comes out that can break such compatibility.  Other ways to
make a class newstyle include inheriting from any other newstyle type
(including builtin types) and setting __metaclass__=type .

The newstyle object model fixes many tiny but irritating warts that the
classic object model is stuck with, such as instance dicts always taking
precedence over classes (and thus the inability to use descriptors, e.g.
properties, to full advantage), the classic model's oversimplified
concept of method resolution order in multiple-inheritance situations,
and the intrinsic asymmetry of class->metaclass vs instance->class
semantics in the classic object model.


Alex


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Nov 12 22:55:32 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:55:32 -0500
Subject: Python 2.4: Why only assignments to None are forbiden?
In-Reply-To: <4195190f@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
References: <4195190f@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <cn40in$cj9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Josef Meile wrote:
> I think in general assignments to built-in types, functions, and 
> variables should be also forbiden. 

Very little in Python should be *forbidden*.  Certainly not
something like this!  Maybe make it hard to do inadvertently.
Maybe require it be an explicit call to a special function
or something.  But forbid it?  Please no!

One perfectly good reason to assign to builtins (and there are others, 
I'm sure) is to provide a "mock" function to replace a standard
one, for use during automated testing.  See, for example, the
reference to a "mock filesystem" that I posted a few days ago,
where you can insert your own "open" function in the builtin
namespace, providing a fake filesystem that intercepts all
file creation and reading and simulates the behaviour.

You can do this easily on a single module, or several, just
by inserting a global into the module(s) in question, but if
you want to do it through an application it becomes a real
burden (and a way to let bugs leak through) to have to do it
that way.  A single assignment override to the standard open
is much more effective and safe.

Every time this issue comes up I feel compelled to point out
this perfectly useful and valid use of assigning to builtins...
I really hope the message gets through.

-Peter


From crgre.znnf at hgvybt.qr  Fri Nov 12 16:07:14 2004
From: crgre.znnf at hgvybt.qr (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:07:14 +0100
Subject: web hosting with Python
In-Reply-To: <3cccb1d8.0411101416.690960c3@posting.google.com>
References: <3cccb1d8.0411101416.690960c3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2vkn2sF2nli34U1@uni-berlin.de>

MJR schrieb:
> anybody could recommend web hosting company which offer professional
> reseller package with Python, preferable located in Europe?

www.domainfactory.de. They installed Python 2.3.4 to get rid of my support
requests :). They are offering some reseller packages, too. Python support
is confined to plain CGI, nothing fancy like mod_python, Webware, ...

-- 
Peter Maas, Aachen, Germany, Tel +49-241-38200 e-mail crgre.znnf at hgvybt.qr


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Thu Nov 11 07:07:57 2004
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:07:57 GMT
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmgcp1$hpk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncong4u.1tk.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmggel$t2o$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cmggh2$t2o$01$2@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5996.1099739023.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmil81$184$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<GW9jd.20763$K7.6442@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<slrncouq2h.mcv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<5V0kd.30218$K7.5461@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<slrncp51j8.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
Message-ID: <xCIkd.32467$K7.21696@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Neil Hodgson:

#    Much of the time C++ code only has to be compatible with the other
# modules it is delivered with.


Jorgen Grahn:

> But most of the time it has to be compatible with the standard library.
>
> Even if these flags exist, I think it's very rare to encounter more than
one
> layout, for one specific compiler/compiler version/architecture.

   The most commonly changed layout option is structure packing. Many C/C++
projects decide upon a particular packing option often just to be compatible
with files from the initial version or other applications and libraries.

   The C++ standard library data types (vector, basic_string, etc.) are
mostly defined in header files which are compiled with the client code and
so use the same options. C system libraries like standard I/O and platform
libraries like Win32 use explicit compiler instructions to ensure they can
deal with client option choice. The Win32 headers use #pragma pack(n) to
ensure that client code will compile assuming particular packing of system
structures no matter how the client code is packing its own structures.

   A C++ specific example is the use of the __declspec(novtable) compiler
directive (indirectly through the AFX_NOVTABLE macro) on many of the
interfaces in Microsoft's widely used ATL to remove code that references the
vtable and hence (normally) remove the vtable. A generic C++ library
accessor that opens a library based on ATL may have to know that some
classes that would be expected to have vtables will not actually have them.

   Neil




From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Sun Nov 14 02:27:27 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 14 Nov 2004 07:27:27 GMT
Subject: Advice needed
References: <mailman.6328.1100365221.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.13.20.00.07.377585@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrncpe22l.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 20:00:23 +0000, Paul Robson <autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 16:57:41 +0000, Premshree Pillai wrote:
> 
>> Lots of reasons why you should learn Python. I'll
>> leave that to others in the mailing-list. :)
>> 
>> I'm not sure where I heard the following, but I've
>> heard it:
>> "If God did OOP, he'd do it in Python."
> 
> If God did it he might have figured out len() should be a method...

Another reason to stay away from monotheism I guess ...

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Nov 13 11:10:43 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:10:43 -0500
Subject: Advice needed
In-Reply-To: <1100361297.413616.17890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1100361297.413616.17890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1sqld.731$nj.183@lakeread01>

Alberto wrote:

> I was trying to understand the reasons why I should learn Python. More
> like a pros/cons about this language. Currently, I use C, C/C++, Java,
> Perl, Visual VB and was looking to see the usefulness of Python.  Any
> suggestions?
> 
Do some Googling, look at what Python can do, make your mind up.

There's no point adding yet another language to the armory just for the 
sake of it, good though the new language might be.

Think of problems that have been difficult to solve using your present 
toolset and see if you can find Python soltuions that seem to be more 
elegant. With your programming background you can learn enough Python in 
a long day's Googling to let you make your mind up.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Nov 30 17:54:57 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:54:57 -0800
Subject: A way to wait Python event
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E32452E5@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> > I tried to launch "python.exe test.py" in another program. After the
> > launch the console was showed and exited on Windows. I want the
> > console stay there. Is there a Python statement to wait an 
> event loop
> > like Tcl's "after forever"?
> 
...
> Apart from that, there might be some hidden "keep this damn 
> window open
> after the executed progam terminated"-checkbox. Happy hunting.

http://www.google.com/search?q=windows+console+remain+open

Use the /k switch to cmd.exe


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 29 18:56:11 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 23:56:11 GMT
Subject: Random number generation from functions
References: <GZLqd.29561$1u.7448@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <41abb4bd.1365216397@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:51:50 GMT, "drs" <drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com> wrote:

>Is there any way to generate random numbers based on arbitrary real valued
>functions? I am looking for something like random.gauss() but with natural
>log and exponential functions.
>
>thanks,
Don't know what you mean. This kind of thing?
(the 1-random... is to make the random numbers in (0,1] instead of [0,1))

 >>> import random
 >>> import math
 >>> math.log(1.0-random.uniform(0,1))
 -0.90030288455841156
 >>> math.log(1.0-random.uniform(0,1))
 -0.261249141864835
 >>> math.log(1.0-random.uniform(0,1))
 -0.99694366818547997

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From mortenjo at ifi.uio.no  Tue Nov 30 15:17:20 2004
From: mortenjo at ifi.uio.no (Morten Lied Johansen)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:17:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.4 (final)
References: <mailman.6913.1101817983.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncqplag.n8q.mortenjo@iago.uio.no>

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:31:34 +1100, Anthony Baxter wrote:
>
> On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I'm
> happy to announce the release of Python 2.4.

Question from a noob:

I have several third party python-modules installed on my current
Windowssystem, and I was wondering if there is a way to upgrade to
Python 2.4 without having to download and install all of those again?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions. :)

-- 
Morten
Trees hit cars only in self-defence.


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 15 15:25:12 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 20:25:12 GMT
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<4195419b.303035081@news.oz.net>
	<slrncpgm80.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<cna31t$aom$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<slrncph5k0.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <4199072c.141135391@news.oz.net>

On 15 Nov 2004 11:44:31 GMT, Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote:

>Op 2004-11-15, Peter Hansen schreef <peter at engcorp.com>:
>> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>> AFAIU the Queue module doesn't block on a full/empty queue when
>>> a timeout is specified but goes in a loop sleeping and periodically
>>> checking whether place/items are available. With signals that
>>> can be sent to a thread the queue could just set an alarm and
>>> then block as if no timeout value was set and either unblock
>>> when place/items are available or get signalled when the timeout
>>> period is over.
>>
>> I'm fairly sure that the Queue uses an internal Event
>> (or REvent?) to signal when space or a new item is
>> available, so I believe your description (and possibly
>> conclusion) above is wrong.  There should be no
>> "periodical check", as that would imply polling.  Check
>> the source if you're interested.
>
>I did check the source, I just didn't study it carefully
>and got my understanding mostly from the comments.
>But anyway here is the relevant part and IMO we have
>a polling loop here.
It looks like you are right, at least on NT, where it is a shame,
since thread_nt.h only uses WaitForSingleObject with INFINITE timeout
specified, and it would seem the ideal timeout support API could be provided.
Maybe the lock acquire method could have an optional keyword arg timeout=floatingseconds,
and for NT that could be converted to milliseconds and used to wait for the mutex
with a non-inifinite wait. But it's platform dependent what low level OS support
there is for locks with timeouts. However, a win32 solution should benefit
a fair proportion of users, if many windows users do threading.

>
>
>class Queue:
>
>  ...
>
>  def get(self, block=True, timeout=None):
>    """Remove and return an item from the queue.
>
>    If optional args 'block' is true and 'timeout' is None (the default),
>    block if necessary until an item is available. If 'timeout' is
>    a positive number, it blocks at most 'timeout' seconds and raises
>    the Empty exception if no item was available within that time.
>    Otherwise ('block' is false), return an item if one is immediately
>    available, else raise the Empty exception ('timeout' is ignored
>    in that case).
>    """
>    if block:
>      if timeout is None:
>        # blocking, w/o timeout, i.e. forever
>        self.esema.acquire()
>      elif timeout >= 0:
>        # waiting max. 'timeout' seconds.
>        # this code snipped is from threading.py: _Event.wait():
>        # Balancing act:  We can't afford a pure busy loop, so
>        # we
>        # have to sleep; but if we sleep the whole timeout time,
>        # we'll be unresponsive.  The scheme here sleeps very
>        # little at first, longer as time goes on, but never
>        # longer
>        # than 20 times per second (or the timeout time
>        # remaining).
>        delay = 0.0005 # 500 us -> initial delay of 1 ms
>        endtime = _time() + timeout
>        while 1:
>          if self.esema.acquire(0):
>            break
>          remaining = endtime - _time()
>          if remaining <= 0:  #time is over and no element arrived
>            raise Empty
>          delay = min(delay * 2, remaining, .05)
>          _sleep(delay)       #reduce CPU usage by using a sleep
>

So, it would seem this kind of thing could be hidden in platform-specific
files where it was really necessary. Probably the people who can do it are
too busy ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 12 05:27:01 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:27:01 +0100
Subject: ZIP files
References: <808f000f.0411100805.7bff7e5d@posting.google.com>
	<qjp4p0dp83ej0e5js9n6inippgpqefb59e@4ax.com>
	<x73bzhpfpx.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<6f402501.0411120120.3f5147d6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gn4y9w.3frb611oy9y8pN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Michael Foord <fuzzyman at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hmmm... does this mean that 
> 
> open(filename, 'w').write(filedata)
> 
> is unsafe ? It's so much more convenient when the object is only going
> to be used for the single action.

It's not exactly unsafe -- but you do risk, depending on what
implementation of Python you're dealing with, that the file object will
just stay open until some unknown time in the future (no later than the
end of your program's run;-).  This may potentially lead to problems if
your program is long-running or open lots of files, etc.

def write_data(filename, data, flags='w'):
    fileobject = open(filename, flags)
    try: fileobject.write(data)
    finally: fileobject.close()

needs to be coded once, and then makes the operation just as convenient
as doing it inline...


Alex


From davecook at nowhere.net  Tue Nov 30 06:11:37 2004
From: davecook at nowhere.net (Dave Cook)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:11:37 GMT
Subject: comment out more than 1 line at once?
References: <cohc71$2pqli$1@claire.desy.de>
	<mailman.6908.1101807392.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cohg3q$2q1b5$1@claire.desy.de> <cohidt$f81$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <slrncqolb9.bjp.davecook@localhost.localdomain>

On 2004-11-30, Uwe Grauer <news at grauer-online.de> wrote:

> if you are using emacs, try C-c # to comment out a block of code.
> Unfortunally Uncomment is not bound to a key by default.

Uncomment is C-u C-c #, at least in xemacs.  Rectangle delete sometimes
works in a pinch (C-x r k, once you've marked the rectangle.)

Dave Cook


From sxanth at ceid.upatras.gr  Tue Nov 16 01:26:13 2004
From: sxanth at ceid.upatras.gr (Stelios Xanthakis)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 22:26:13 -0800
Subject: save a dictionary in a file
In-Reply-To: <2vsa8hF2oa58tU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2vsa8hF2oa58tU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <41999D85.2010409@ceid.upatras.gr>

Luis P. Mendes wrote:

> 
> Is there a more commonly used form to do it, yet in a simple way?
> 

Yes. If the dictionary contains only strings, numbers, lists and tuples 
of strings, numbers, and lists and tuples, of (infinite resursion. 
program halted)

You can

  FILE.write ('D=' + str (D))

and then execfile the file.



Stelios


From Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU  Mon Nov 15 23:14:44 2004
From: Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU (Michael J. Fromberger)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:14:44 -0500
Subject: Identifying bundles in MacOS X
References: <Michael.J.Fromberger-2CA6CC.17042111112004@localhost>
	<2vt7veF2nues7U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Michael.J.Fromberger-252D87.23144415112004@localhost>

In article <2vt7veF2nues7U1 at uni-berlin.de>,
 Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:

> Michael J. Fromberger wrote:
> > Given the pathname of a directory in my filesystem, I would like a 
> > graceful way to determine whether or not that directory represents 
> > a "bundle", in the sense that, when you double-click on the 
> > directory's icon in the Finder, it is launched rather than "opened" 
> > for viewing. Applications behave this way by default, but so do 
> > various other file types (e.g., the "rtfd" files created by 
> > TextEdit, and the data files for certain applications such as 
> > Quicken).
> 
> I think that a MacOSX-style application can be recognised simply by 
> the fact that it's a directory whose name ends in ".app". (You don't 
> usually see that extension in the Finder, but all MacOSX application 
> bundles seem to have it.)

Actually, Apple's developer documentation seems to imply that there is a 
"bundle bit" in the Finder info (or possibly the extended Finder info) 
for directories, and that if this bit is set, the Finder will treat the 
folder as a bundle.  At any rate, there are many bundle-like directories 
other than just ".app" files and old-style 'APPL' type files.  The 
trouble is, the Carbon.File module does not seem to expose the 
appropriate fields of the FSCatalogInfo structure from the Carbon API, 
so I can't get at that bit from within Python.

I found and adapted a patch to Mac/Modules/file/_Filemodule.c, that 
makes the finderInfo and finderXInfo fields visible, but either I did it 
wrongly, or there is some other issue I've missed, for I get nothing but 
an empty FInfo structure back when I try to access either of them.

I guess my next step should be to write a C program against the Carbon 
API, and see if I can get the information that way -- if so, I guess I 
will just have to patch the Carbon.File module myself.  If not, I might 
have to admit defeat for now.

Meanwhile, I'm using a workaround, a.k.a. a gross hack:  If the 
directory's name has one of a set of "known" extensions, or if it 
contains a directory named "Contents", and if it doesn't have more than 
a few files at its top level apart from the "Contents" directory, I'm 
considering it a bundle.  That works well enough for my purposes, but 
I'd really rather have it work "correctly."

Thanks for taking the time to write back!

Cheers,
-M

-- 
Michael J. Fromberger             | Lecturer, Dept. of Computer Science
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~sting/  | Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH, USA


From strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu  Wed Nov 10 17:41:09 2004
From: strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:41:09 GMT
Subject: html parsing?  Or just simple regex'ing?
References: <pan.2004.11.10.01.37.41.879705@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<cmstsc$bh$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.10.22.41.07.904121@dcs.nac.uci.edu>

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:26:04 +0100, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> 
>> So, I've got Basic AUTH going with http, but now I'm faced with the
>> following questions, due to the fact that I need to pull some lists out of
>> HTML, and then make some changes via POST or so, again over HTTP:
>> 
>> 1) Would I be better off just regex'ing the html I'm getting back?  (I
>> suppose this depends on the complexity of the html received, eh?)
>> 
>> 2) Would I be better off feeding the HTML into an HTML parser, and then
>> traversing that datastructure (is that really how it works?)?
> 
> I personally would certainly go that way - the best thing IMHO would be to
> make a dom-tree out of the html you then can work on with xpath. 4suite
> might be good for that. While this seems a bit overengineered at first,
> using xpath allows for pretty strong queries against your dom-tree so even
> larger changes in the "interface" can be coped with. And writing htmlparser
> based class isn't hard, either.

This sounds interesting.

But if I use an XML parser to parse HTML instead of a dedicated HTML
parser, will I still get smart handling of unpaired tags?  I'm not sure we
can count on getting 100% properly formed HTML...



From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Nov  9 19:30:13 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 19:30:13 -0500
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.12.07.17.29.23.720487@jerf.org>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<mailman.6008.1099761054.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<878y9eya0r.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<pan.2004.12.07.17.29.23.720487@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <41916115.1080002@holdenweb.com>

Jeremy Bowers wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 20:53:26 +0000, Israel Raj T wrote:
> 
>>As for non desktop apps, the entire portage system of Gentoo is written in
>>Python. 'emerge sync' causes a python app to synchronise a local
>>application database with database at a non-local mirror. It is i/o
>>intensive and appears to work very well and very fast.
> 
> 
> "emerge sync" mostly runs an rsync command (at least on standard
> installs). The python contribution to that process is minimal.
> 
> The primary slowdown with "emerge" appears to be the way the database is
> stored as many thousands of little files in /usr/portage. Again, not
> really python; you want to accelerate emerge, speed up your hard drive. 
> 
> (They have more cached metadata now at least in the cutting-edge release,
> but as that is the one I use I don't know if that is now considered
> stable. It has really sped things up. A couple more iterations and Python
> might actually become the bottleneck.)

Jeremy:

I just noticed your date is set a month ahead.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From exarkun at divmod.com  Fri Nov 19 10:10:53 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:10:53 GMT
Subject: Question about thread
In-Reply-To: <1100875819.430462@eng-ser6>
Message-ID: <20041119151053.27631.1215974317.divmod.quotient.2773@ohm>

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:50:17 +0800, Valkyrie <valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk> wrote:
>To be more precise, what I want to do is to have a threaded program to handle
> some jobs concurrently (while those jobs are fetching  information from the
> Internet, so threading could speed up the process if the network is slow)
> 
>             start
>               | (blahblahblah...)
>               v
>   +-----+-----+-----+-----+
>   |     |     |     |     |
> --+-- --+-- --+-- --+-- --+--
> |   | |   | |   | |   | |   |
> | A | | B | | C | | D | | E |
> |   | |   | |   | |   | |   |
> --+-- --+-- --+-- --+-- --+--
>   |     |     |     |     |
>   +-----+-----+-----+-----+
>               | (blahblahblah...)
>               v
>            finish!

  If your goal is efficient network concurrency, threads are a second-rate solution.  Asynchronous IO is the winner: http://www.twistedmatrix.com/

  Here's an example (untested as usual):

    from twisted.web.client import downloadPage
    from twisted.internet import defer, reactor

    # Map URLs to files to which to save them
    URLs = {'www.google.com', 'google',
            # ...
            'wigu.com', 'wigu',
           }

    # Initiate the download and save of each page
    downloads = []
    for url in URLs:
        downloads.append(downloadPage(url, open(URLs[url], 'w')))

    # Wait for all of the downloads to finish, then stop
    defer.DeferredList(downloads).addCallback(lambda r: reactor.stop())

    # Start the reactor
    reactor.run()

  Jp


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Nov  4 07:29:37 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 13:29:37 +0100
Subject: Extending Python questions
References: <aef9ef3d.0411030930.6091ddc7@posting.google.com>
	<cmb5i9$qbh$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<aef9ef3d.0411032334.24dddcb6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cmd7bh$k1o$02$2@news.t-online.com>

> 
> Thanks for the reply. I'll try those.
> The reason I'm trying it this way is that a user can add python code
> inside the scripts.

Sorry to say that, but then you'll have to either write a real parser that
understands both syntaxes - and I bet thats more effort as converting your
existing scripts.

You can't have your cake and eat it - if you want python, you should use its
syntax.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From OlafMeding at compuserve.com  Wed Nov 24 14:05:27 2004
From: OlafMeding at compuserve.com (Olaf Meding)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 11:05:27 -0800
Subject: Deleting keys from shelve
Message-ID: <9e5ea2c4.0411241105.3554551d@posting.google.com>

Why does a shelve file never get smaller?

I noticed that the shelve file (db.txt, see below) does not change
(get smaller) when deleting a key.  The key is deleted but the file
size does not change.  I expected the db.txt file to get smaller.

def delete():
  s = shelve.open('db.txt')
  del s['test3']
  s.close()

I am using Python 2.2.1 on MS Windows.  Thanks so much for your help.

Olaf


From przemas_r at o2.pl  Wed Nov 17 12:43:42 2004
From: przemas_r at o2.pl (przemas_r at o2.pl)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 18:43:42 +0100
Subject: os.system vs os.system inside thread -> why is there any difference?
Message-ID: <cng2gp$mup$1@julia.coi.pw.edu.pl>

Hello everybody.

I've found python's behaviour I can't understand. Namely the way 
os.system () works depending if it's being run in Thread's run function 
or run in 'normal' way.

 >>> os.system ('arping -w 1 -c 1 -I eth1 192.168.0.2')
ARPING 192.168.0.2 from 62.233.239.115 eth1
Sent 1 probes (1 broadcast(s))
Received 0 response(s)
256
 >>>

Here as you can see, arping command quits sending packets after 1 second 
and outputs failure (Received 0 response(s)) information.

Now the same thing, but running from thread:

 >>> class A (threading.Thread):
...     def __init__ (self):
...             threading.Thread.__init__ (self)
...     def run (self):
...             os.system ('arping -w 1 -c 1 -I eth1 192.168.0.2')
...
 >>> A ().start ()
 >>> ARPING 192.168.0.2 from 62.233.239.115 eth1
<lots of time and nothing happens>

Now, although the only difference is that command arping is being run in 
thread, command never quits, informing about it's failure (-w 1 switch 
means that it should quit in 1 second). Mistery.

Please help me if you know what's going on.

--
Przemys?aw R??ycki


From syd.diamond at gmail.com  Tue Nov  2 13:09:50 2004
From: syd.diamond at gmail.com (syd)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 10:09:50 -0800
Subject: general class functions
References: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>
	<kj9eo0hkjem9pbj3pvdbpea6gpl06ighsj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a76ba315.0411021009.46b06459@posting.google.com>

Many many thanks, Andrea and Kent!

To keep changes to calls in my current code to a minimum, I'm hoping I
can encode Andrea's "on-the-fly" get function.  I added Andrea's
__getattr__ to my Library() class, populated the class with a few
nations, and tried:

>>> library.get_continent('Europe')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "foo.py", line 16, in __getattr__
    return self.__dict__[name]
KeyError: '__repr__'

I then commented out lines 15 and 16...
    #else:
      #return self.__dict__[name]

... and re-ran.

>>> library.get_continent('Europe')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable

I tweaked a bit, but I could not get to the bottom of this problem.  I
see the logic here (and it's brilliant I should add, Andrea), but I'm
not sure what is wrong.

Ideas?


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Thu Nov 25 07:10:29 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 25 Nov 2004 04:10:29 -0800
Subject: redirecting stderr
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0411250410.6b460253@posting.google.com>

Maybe it is something obvious, but what is going on with this code?

import sys
myerr = file("myerr.txt", "w")
sys.stderr = myerr
try:
    raise Exception, "some error"
finally:
    myerr.close()
    sys.stderr = sys.__stderr__

I would expect the error message to be written into "myerr.txt", instead
it is displayed on the console, on regular stderr (?) and "myerr.txt" is
empty. I guess I misunderstood something ...

                  Michele Simionato


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Nov  1 01:19:00 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:19:00 +1100
Subject: How to change the combo box lists as my wish
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE4A905F@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

Austin wrote:

> .................
> self.diskList = ['3','4','5']
> self.cB =
> wxComboBox(self,-1,wxDefaultPosition,wxDefaultSize,self.diskList)
> ................. 
> 
> The code is executed initially.
> If i want to update only the diskList, what could i do?

Follow the advice at this URL:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Tim Delaney


From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Nov  8 17:03:01 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 23:03:01 +0100
Subject: unicode string literals and "u" prefix
In-Reply-To: <ac3d3965.0411080600.3a5bce8d@posting.google.com>
References: <ac3d3965.0411080600.3a5bce8d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <418fed14$0$156$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

nico wrote:
> But if I understand well, prefixing a unicode string literal with 'u'
> will eventually become obsolete ( in python 3.0 ? ), as all strings
> will be unicode in a more or less distant future.

I think you misunderstand. It might become deprecated (in the sense
of becoming redundant yet still possible); in any case, this future
is certainly distant (maybe five or ten years).

> So, to write "clean" script code, is it a good idea to write a script
> like this ?

No. Do use Unicode literals whenever you can.

> ( I know the -U option can disappear in a next python version, but is
> not better to delete the "-U" option at the top of the scripts than
> all "u" unicode prefixes, when python will consider all strings as
> unicode ?... )

As you say: *when*. Current Python doesn't, and explicit is better than
implicit. There is no plan yet as to when (or even if) to release Python
3.

> It seems that "print" encodes by default with the shell current
> encoding.

Yes, it should.

> Do you think that a script written like this will still work with
> python 3.0 ?

Most certainly. Even when string literals become Unicode by default,
u""-prefixes will still be accepted - most likely so for ten or
twenty years.

Regards,
Martin


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Nov  8 14:14:23 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 11:14:23 -0800
Subject: write-time call tree?
In-Reply-To: <418F8975.2080406@bellsouth.net>
References: <418F8975.2080406@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <20041108110335.F87C.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Jeremy Jones <zanesdad at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Does anyone know of a tool that will look at a Python source file 
> (without executing the file - just analyzing it) and generate a report of
> 
>     * functions, classes, methods defined
>     * objects created
>     * method/function calls (I'm really looking for a map of which calls
>       were made from within which functions/methods), preferably with
>       the option of filtering which calls to trace
>     * trace imports if possible, show blank stub if an ImportError is
>       encountered, again, preferably with the option to filter which
>       imports to trace
> 
> I found some tools that worked at runtime (trace.py, maybe PyChecker), 
> but I'm not sure they have the functionality I need even if collecting 
> the data at runtime were what I am looking for.  I would obviously 
> prefer an open souce/free solution, but if anyone knows of a 
> commercially developed tool, I might be able to convince the company to 
> spring for it.

Some scripts have differing behavior depending on what other things
(that you cannot control) are doing at that same time.  An example of
this would be CGI applications, web servers, etc.  So requiring analysis
without running can't happen in the general case.

One can even make the claim that such analysis requires a solution
to the halting problem, which is as of yet unsolved, and believed to be
unsolvable.

Here are two simple scripts that would not be truely analyzable without
running, and even then, it wouldn't do a whole lot of good to attempt to
analyze.

random.seed(int(time.time()))
for i in xrange(random.randrange(1, 65536)):
    #do something that creates objects


h = '217ea9ff0e4add3a51cab9b1f6b56cc5'
for possible_string in universe_of_strings():
    if md5.new(possible_string).hexdigest():
        print possible_string
        break


 - Josiah

P.S.
(h is the hex digest of 'kaukhg98 y243phasd g924h')


From milesd at chocksaway.com  Fri Nov 26 06:51:21 2004
From: milesd at chocksaway.com (milesd at chocksaway.com)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 03:51:21 -0800
Subject: Importing Python 2.3 datetime lib into Python 2.2 - Windows
Message-ID: <1101469881.437081.269440@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Need some advice on adding datetime functionality into Python 2.2
Windows.  Is it worth me trying to get the 2.3 datetime(pyd) file
working.  I don't think it is.
Can someone recommend "Datetime" src which I can use.

thanks

Miles.



From kentsin at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 10 02:34:41 2004
From: kentsin at yahoo.com (kent sin)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 23:34:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: HELP : pystemmer win32 binary
Message-ID: <20041110073441.70719.qmail@web41523.mail.yahoo.com>

I urgently need a binary version of pystemmer. I am
using python 2.3 and windows 2000.

I have try to download the free MSVC toolkit. But
don't known how to do it myself. I just found  a guide
for building python 2.4 beta. Others were for bcc and
gcc which I think is not suitable for my propose.

Thank you for any help.

Rgs,

Kent Sin


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Nov  5 07:37:28 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 13:37:28 +0100
Subject: Simple thread pools
References: <418A4900.7020304@debpro.webcom.dk>
	<20041104102722.F815.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5957.1099646551.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmfs68$9vc$02$2@news.t-online.com>

> 
> Is there no way via Python to download say 1000 files simultaneously?

Things as maximum number of file descriptors and generally speaking IO
operations and their limits are matters of the underlying OS, not of the
programming language itself. So show us a way in another language, and then
we can tell you how to do that in python.

And while using threads to wait for file IO is tempting, its a waste of
resources.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From no at spam.none  Tue Nov 30 08:22:50 2004
From: no at spam.none (shark)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 08:22:50 -0500
Subject: Syntax for extracting multiple items from a dictionary
Message-ID: <TuednaLvv_626THcRVn-hA@rcn.net>

row = {"fname" : "Frank", "lname" : "Jones", "city" : "Hoboken", "state" :
"Alaska"}
cols = ("city", "state")

Is there a best-practices way to ask for an object containing only the keys
named in cols out of row? In other words, to get this:
{"city" : "Hoboken", "state" : "Alaska"}

Thanks,

shark




From bradtilley at gmail.com  Tue Nov  9 13:34:02 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 13:34:02 -0500
Subject: should i start looking for a new list?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6170.1100021355.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <20041109101248.F1B661C001B2@mwinf0101.wanadoo.fr>
	<mailman.6170.1100021355.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41910D9A.4070406@gmail.com>

James Stroud wrote:
> Being a fellow programmer who also has poor style and limited training, I 
> think your code may be a little to cryptic for people to decipher and thus 
> come up with answers to your questions. I say this because it has been said 
> to me on more than one occasion--and I'm sure it will be said to me yet again 
> in the future as well. Perhaps someone might point you to a python style 
> manual:

I think good programmers like Python because it looks "designed, not 
accumulated". I heard someone else say that, so I don't take credit for 
it, but I think that mindset (designed, not accumulated) permeates 
Python development and its usage. The bad thing about this is that many 
experienced programmers who see this benefit in Python have learned the 
hard way why these things are important where as most newbies have not. 
So at times, assumptions are made that go right over the heads of 
newbies... I say this from my own experience while learning the language.

Perhaps there is some info on the Net that newbie/intermediate users 
could be directed to to help bridge the gap between those that know the 
reasons and importance behind 'good design' and those that do not. I 
think something like this would go a long way to remedying this situation.

P.S. I would consider myself 'upper-class newbie' to 'lower-class' 
intermediate with Python and 'good design' ;)


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Nov 17 16:48:14 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:48:14 -0600
Subject: thread, threading; how to kill a thread?
In-Reply-To: <cngfsv$jig$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
References: <m37jokwiqj.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>	<mailman.6508.1100724708.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cngfsv$jig$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <419BC71E.4090403@colorstudy.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Ian Bicking wrote:
> 
>> I might reiterate this request, but knowing the standard answer (you 
>> can't) -- what if I *really* want to?  
> 
> 
> It looks to me sort of as if you are actually reiterating the
> request above... but then going ahead and answering your own
> question.  Is that what happened here?  Because if it isn't,
> I'm not sure what other answer one could give....

It's more, "yes, I know the answer, but I remain unsatisfied".  I'm 100% 
okay with a platform-specific way to accomplish this (especially if the 
platform is Linux and BSD).  I'm okay with horrid hacks, or memory 
leaks, or other possible compromises.  But I'm not really okay with the 
standard answer.  And so I'm hoping someone else felt the same way and 
figured something out...?

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From caleb1 at telkomsa.net  Thu Nov 25 21:35:00 2004
From: caleb1 at telkomsa.net (Caleb Hattingh)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 21:35:00 -0500
Subject: Replacing words from strings except 'and' / 'or' / 'and not'
References: <41A5EFA9.5030907@arcor.de>
	<mailman.6793.1101408768.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <opsh1v4mc61js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>

Oh well, I might as well give it a shot.  I hope nobody has tried map yet?

This is is short and quick, although:
I sure would appreciate some help changing the list "lkw" into a generator  
(or something like that) instead...those fancy things are still beyond me  
:)

'>>> keywords = ['my','is']
'>>> sentence = 'hi there my name is caleb'
'>>> lsen = sentence.split()
'>>> lkw = []
# Yuck!  isn't there a better way to generate copies of the same list in  
the "map" below??
'>>> for i in range(len(lsen)):
	lkw.append(keywords)
	
'>>> lkw
# Like I said, yuck!  For 'map' below, can't we use a generator or  
something like that instead??
[['my', 'is'], ['my', 'is'], ['my', 'is'], ['my', 'is'], ['my', 'is'],  
['my', 'is']]
'>>> def myfunc(kw,word):
	if word in kw:
		return '*'+word+'*'
	else:
		return word

	
'>>> ans = map(myfunc,lkw,lsen)
'>>> ans
['hi', 'there', '*my*', 'name', '*is*', 'caleb']
'>>> newSentence = ' '.join(ans)
'>>> newSentence
'hi there *my* name *is* caleb'
'>>>



From johng2001 at rediffmail.com  Tue Nov 30 15:16:47 2004
From: johng2001 at rediffmail.com (John)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 12:16:47 -0800
Subject: Delphi underrated, IDE clues for Python
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org> <zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.23.07.09.08.229463@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<zn18e7pm.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.24.07.36.24.700146@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<mailman.6746.1101289610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<vtadq05nljtb7hatf77t3lfvttkajlt2s6@4ax.com>
	<opsh3oj9ap1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
	<5c882bb5.0411270517.77ccc654@posting.google.com>
	<opsh5mkisz1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
Message-ID: <ba129ce7.0411301216.2f41d081@posting.google.com>

"Caleb Hattingh" <caleb1 at telkomsa.net> wrote in message news:<opsh5mkisz1js0xs at news.telkomsa.net>...
> thx, I already have and use PythonForDelphi (and am on the mailing list).
> 
> It works very well indeed, my impression is that Python-Delphi connection  
> is even easier than Python-C integration (e.g. via SWIG, etc), due once  
> again to the Delphi IDE.  Drag-n-drop in the IDE gets you python code in  
> your delphi code, or delphi units/objects accessible in python.
> 
> However, Delphi is not platform indpendent (which is important for me as I  
> use a different OS at work and at home), and I don't know if  
> PythonForDelphi supports Kylix.  I am fairly sure it doesn't support  
> Lazarus, which IS platform independent, but not as feature-rich as Delphi.
> 
> Btw, on the SHOOTOUT page, you'll see that the Delphi rank for LOC is 28.   
> This number is pretty meaningless in practice because the IDE does a lot  
> of code generation for you.  More interesting would have been to see the  
> rank for LOC you have to type yourself...
> 
> On 27 Nov 2004 05:17:38 -0800, bearophile <bearophileHUGS at lycos.com> wrote:
> 
> > Delphi is a very good language, and quite fast too:
> > http://dada.perl.it/shootout/delphi.html
> >
> >
> > Caleb Hattingh>STILL...Having a Delphi-like IDE for Python would make me  
> > giddy.
> >
> > Maybe here you can find a way to use both at the same time:
> > http://www.atug.com/andypatterns/pythonDelphiTalk.htm
> > http://membres.lycos.fr/marat/delphi/python.htm
> >
> > Bearophile

Python + Delphi is pretty much the Zen of programming  for me, for
now. Both excel in what they try to accomplish, stand at opposite ends
of the spectrum, yet compliment each other beautifully.
PythonForDelphi is the only language embedding I have done without any
stress recently.

When I make GUI software, I only do it for MS Windows. So portability
is not an issue. I have not moved to Delphi.NET because Python gives
everything missing from Delphi and I can have best of both the worlds
while still having a fast, very rich (thanks to all those VCL
freeware) and responsive GUI and under 2-3 MB distribution. For same
reasons, I never really made a full blown GUI app with any Python
bindings. It's just too easy to design a GUI with Delphi and write
Windows specific code.

I wish Borland focussed more in this direction. Bruce Eckel has been
saying for quite a while that Borland should bring their IDE expertise
to make a Python IDE.

I think Python For Delphi module is grossly under rated like Delphi.


From onurb at xiludom.gro  Tue Nov  2 17:27:25 2004
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 23:27:25 +0100
Subject: Should I learn Python?
In-Reply-To: <624a388a.0411021328.5ac41f4c@posting.google.com>
References: <624a388a.0411021328.5ac41f4c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <418807d0$0$19691$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Sam a ?crit :
> Hi, 
> I have been developing sites and cms's for the past few years using
> PHP and mysql. I've been interested in learning a new language and was
> considering Python. I have a pretty decent grasp of OOP concepts (i
> know, you're skeptical since I mentioned PHP). I don't have a formal
> programming background, just learning as I go.
> 
> So, with that being said, here are some dumb questions.
> 
> 1. What can I do with Python that I can't do with php? 
<troll>
1/ Write clean, well structured, readable code,
2/ Have Fun
</troll>
3/ Use Zope
4/ Use Twisted
5/ etc...

> 2. Do you use both PHP and Python in conjunction with each other?
No. I use PHP for legacy apps and really dumb scripting.

> 3. In what way could I utilize Python to compliment existing sites or
> apps built with PHP?
a cgi is a cgi, whatever the language (php, perl, python, bash, C, 
COBOL, assembly....).

> Thanks for any help.
HTH


From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Sat Nov  6 22:50:43 2004
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 03:50:43 GMT
Subject: PEP new assert idiom
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org><1gmurvv.1meude125h1zrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6027.1099792216.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nYgjd.1129$6I1.1124@trndny05>

[F?bio Mendes]
> This is very similar to what I'm proposing, with the only inconvinience
> that is uglier to type:
>
> assert \
>   exp1 and \
>   exp2 and \
>   ...
>   expn,
>   'ErrorMsg'
>
> Instead of:
>
> assert \
>   exp1,
>   exp2,
>   ...
>   expn,
>   'Errormsg'
>
> Well, I realize I didn't expressed my thoughts very clearly and that
> it's indeed a very minor change in python's syntax. It won't let anyone
> does anything new, IFAIK, but it makes a common pattern of code a little
> more beautiful, (and why not? more expressive). If one consider the fact
> that it won't break old code (only in one very unlikely case) I don't
> see it as a completely unreasonable suggestion. Other people may think
> differently though.

The odds of Guido accepting this proposal are about zero.  As you say, it
doesn't do anything new, but it does require altering the grammar.  Besides,
TOOWTDI.

Also, Guido tends to not be persuaded by arguments about "too much typing".
This is doubly true is you're talking about replacing an "and" with a comma (big
whoop).

Also, one of the existing alternatives is quite readable:

err = 'Errormsg'
assert exp1, err
assert exp2, err
assert exp3, err

The alternative has the advantage that a failure will point to the exact
expression that failed.  The disadvantage is the repetition of the error
message; however, I disagree that your use case is common.  Instead, it is
likely more advantageous to have different error messages for each expression.
For example, the following comes from the post condition checks in QR matrix
decomposition:

assert Q.tr().mmul(Q)==eye(min(m,n)), "Q is not orthonormal"
assert isinstance(R,UpperTri), "R is not upper triangular"
assert R.size==(m,n), "R is does not match the original dimensions"
assert Q.mmul(R)==self, "Q*R does not reproduce the original matrix"

One could link all of these by an "and" or the proposed comma, but then you
end-up with a single, less informative error message, "The QR decomposition
bombed, but I won't tell you why ;-) ".


Raymond Hettinger




From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov  8 07:52:30 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 07:52:30 -0500
Subject: Simple thread pools
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5937.1099608210.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <418A4900.7020304@debpro.webcom.dk>
	<mailman.5937.1099608210.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Y3Kjd.13319$931.8364@lakeread01>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

> Jacob Friis <lists at debpro.webcom.dk> wrote:
> 
>>I have built a script inspired by a post on Speno's Pythonic Avocado:
>>http://www.pycs.net/users/0000231/weblog/2004/01/04.html#P10
>>
>>I'm setting NUM_FEEDERS to 1000.
>>Is that crazy?
> 
> 
> Not crazy, but foolish.  Thread scheduling in Python reduces performance
> beyond a few dozen threads.  If you are doing system calls (socket.recv,
> file.read, etc.), your performance will be poor.
> 
Is this speculative, or do you have some hard evidence to support it? I 
recently rewrote a billing program that delivers statements by email. 
The number of threads it uses is a parameter to the program, and we are 
currently running at 200 with every evidence of satisfaction - this 
month's live run sent something over 10,000 emails an hour.
> 
>>Are there a better solution?
> 
> 
> Fewer threads.  Try running at 10-30.  If you are finding that you
> aren't able to handle the load with those threads, then your
> processor/disk/etc isn't fast enough to handle the load.
> 
I'm tempted to say "rubbish", but that would be rude, so instead I'll 
just ask for some evidence :-). Don't forget that in network-based tasks 
the time spent waiting for connection turnarounds can dominate the 
elapsed time for execution - did you perhaps overlook that?

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl  Wed Nov 10 22:12:39 2004
From: fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl (Maciej Dziardziel)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 04:12:39 +0100
Subject: Sorting email addresses by domain
References: <mailman.6250.1100138329.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20041111031239.E28.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>

Peter Murray wrote:

> Anyway, I have a list of email address and I want to sort them by domain.

def cmpdomain(email1,email2):
    [usr1,dmn1],[usr2,dmn2] = email1.split('@'),email2.split('@')
    if email1 == email2: return 0
    if dmn1 == dmn2: return cmp(usr1,usr2)
    return cmp(dmn1,dmn2)



emails.sort(cmpdomain)

-- 
Maciej "Fiedzia" Dziardziel (fiedzia (at) fiedzia (dot) prv (dot) pl)
www.fiedzia.prv.pl

Captain Kirk, meet my father. He's Dad, Jim.


From benevilent at optusnet.com.au  Wed Nov 10 03:13:13 2004
From: benevilent at optusnet.com.au (benevilent at optusnet.com.au)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:13:13 +1100
Subject: embedded python: efficency query
Message-ID: <1100074394.743.12.camel@wibble>

Hey,

I am embedding Python in an application, and have an efficency concern
about this. There is a Python method which is called from the main
application (written in C) many times per second (I am using the
PyObject_Call function). Unfortunately this seems to be a bottleneck, as
when the performance is compared to another language frontend of this
application, when there involves many transitions from the core
application to the language frontend, the other frontend outperforms
Python. When there are few transitions from the core application to the
language frontend (there still may be many transitions from the language
frontend to the core application) Python outperforms the other language
frontend by a healthy margin.

I will try to profile the application with both frontends to find out
more details, but I would be intereseted to know if there are any
efficency improvements that can be used to speedup the Python frontend
in the case described above.

Thanks,
Laurie




From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Sat Nov  6 21:21:18 2004
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 20:21:18 -0600
Subject: PEP new assert idiom
In-Reply-To: <1099776960.32393.82.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1099776960.32393.82.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <200411062021.19253.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Saturday 06 November 2004 03:36 pm, F?bio Mendes wrote:
> My proposal is to add the following syntax to the language:
> 
> >>> assert (statement 1), (statement 2), ... (statement n), 'Errormsg'
> 
> Or, if the user prefers, the traditional comma rules also applies:
> 
> >>> assert \
> >>>     statement1,
> >>>     statement2,
> >>>     (...) 
> >>>     statement n,
> >>>     'Errormsg'
> 
> This simple syntax change introduces a very useful idiom for unittesting
> and may equally be useful in other kinds of code. The most problematic
> issue, I see, is the potential ambiguity a assert usage:

I don't think it gains much over what is already possible:

try:
   statement1
   statement2
   (...)
   statementn
except:
   raise AssertionError("Errormsg")

Cheers,
Terry


--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From exarkun at divmod.com  Wed Nov 24 14:33:27 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:33:27 GMT
Subject: GCJ equivalent for Python?
In-Reply-To: <Af-dnWNrt-27QzncRVn-iA@centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <20041124193327.17481.1285277086.divmod.quotient.3902@ohm>

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:16:56 -0800, Ed Suominen <ed-no at spam-eepatents.com> wrote:
>I have been programming Python for a year or so and like everything about it
> except for the difficulty of distributing programs to someone who doesn't
> have the 10MB+ interpreter package downloaded installed.
> 
> I'm a frequent user of pdftk, a Java-based PDF-manipulation program that
> runs natively (no JVM required) because it is compiled with gcj. It's
> plenty fast and you really never know that it was written in Java unless
> you try to build it.
> 
> So, the question naturally arises, why isn't there something like the gcj
> compiler for Python?

  Short answer: No real technical reason.  Motive, means, and opportunity simply haven't conspired on this front yet.

  The longer answer includes a list of projects that are similar to gcj, but for Python.  py2c is one old example (no longer maintained, I believe).  PyPy is headed towards native compilation (and can even do some simple things already).  And let's not forget Jython!  Just compile your Python to Java and your Java to assembly and your assembly to native code!

  Jp


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Nov 30 04:37:19 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:37:19 +0100
Subject: pre-PEP generic objects
References: <a8Oqd.110119$V41.14593@attbi_s52>
Message-ID: <cohf03$i8b$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Steven Bethard wrote:

> def?__eq__(self,?other):
>     """x.__eq__(y)?<==>?x?==?y"""
>     return?(isinstance(other,?self.__class__)
>             and?self.__dict__?==?other.__dict__)

This results in an asymmetry:

>>> from bunch import Bunch
>>> class B(Bunch): pass
...
>>> B().__eq__(Bunch())
False
>>> Bunch().__eq__(B())
True

With indirect use of __eq__() this puzzling behaviour disappears:

>>> B() == Bunch()
False
>>> Bunch() == B()
False

Whether this is intended, I don't know. If someone can enlighten me...

In any case I would prefer self.__class__ == other.__class__ over
isinstance().

Peter
 



From grante at visi.com  Thu Nov  4 10:36:43 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 04 Nov 2004 15:36:43 GMT
Subject: pep 336:  Make None Callable
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.5896.1099542209.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2-GdneEPltMGJBTcRVn-3g@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <418a4c8b$0$5019$a1866201@visi.com>

On 2004-11-04, The Eternal Squire <eternalsquire at comcast.net> wrote:

> But isn't the point of Pythonic style to write something as
> tersely elegant as possible?

Nope.  You seem to have completely missed the Zen of Python.

The "point" of Python is to write something in the manner most
easily read, understood, and maintained.  If that takes more
lines of souce code than a "terse and elelgent" one-liner
that's impossible to read the next day, so be it.

> I'd rather not see a bunch of null methods sprinkled thru the
> classes in the libraries that I have to write, and I'd rather
> not to have to import it either.

Then create a single, global Noop object.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I was making donuts
                                  at               and now I'm on a bus!
                               visi.com            


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Nov 27 12:54:02 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:54:02 -0500
Subject: Replacing words from strings except  'and' / 'or' / 'and not'
In-Reply-To: <co6pr9$aiq$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <mailman.6781.1101393976.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<co4s42$mkb$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<co6pr9$aiq$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <coaeus$3pk$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Peter Maas wrote:
> Diez B. Roggisch schrieb:
>> import sets
>> KEYWORDS = sets.Set(['and', 'or', 'not'])
>>...
>> def decorate(w):
>>     if w in KEYWORDS:
>>         return w
>>     return "*%s*" % w
>>
> Is there a reason to use sets here? I think lists will do as well.

Sets are implemented using dictionaries, so the "if w in KEYWORDS"
part would be O(1) instead of O(n) as with lists...

(I.e. searching a list is a brute-force operation, whereas
sets are not.)

-Peter


From dradul at shangri-la.invalid  Tue Nov 30 16:49:58 2004
From: dradul at shangri-la.invalid (Alejandro López-Valencia)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:49:58 -0500
Subject: Random number generation from functions
References: <GZLqd.29561$1u.7448@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <314888F33lqodU1@individual.net>

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:51:50 GMT, "drs"
<drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com> wrote:

>Is there any way to generate random numbers based on arbitrary real valued
>functions? I am looking for something like random.gauss() but with natural
>log and exponential functions.

Try with CRNG, it may have what you need, or be able to adapt it to
what you want. http://www.sbc.su.se/~per/crng/



From evenprimes at gmail.com  Fri Nov  5 17:04:15 2004
From: evenprimes at gmail.com (Chris Cioffi)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 17:04:15 -0500
Subject: pep 336: Make None Callable
In-Reply-To: <418BC38F.5040705@benjiyork.com>
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>
	<f03f4fdf04110407394b24e7cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<418AE21B.6040905@benjiyork.com>
	<f03f4fdf0411050656504b81f8@mail.gmail.com>
	<418BC38F.5040705@benjiyork.com>
Message-ID: <f03f4fdf04110514045551761c@mail.gmail.com>

It was actually very educational.  I use many, well, several, of those
exceptions often and although I don't import them, it never occured to
me that they were builtins!

Chris


On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 12:16:47 -0600, Benji York <benji at benjiyork.com> wrote:
> Chris Cioffi wrote:
> > <lame face saving attempt>At least _most_ of those are classes as
> > opposed to primitives...</lame face saving attempt>
> 
> No face-saving needed. :)  The most used ones are None, True, and False
> which are indeed "primitives".  I was just being a bit pedantic.
> --
> 
> 
> Benji York
> benji at benjiyork.com
> 
> 


-- 
<a href="http://spreadfirefox.com/community/?q=affiliates&id=0&t=1">Get
Firefox!</a>


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Nov 15 16:41:39 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:41:39 -0800
Subject: save a dictionary in a file
In-Reply-To: <2vsa8hF2oa58tU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2vsa8hF2oa58tU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <10pi8f8ivf320a1@corp.supernews.com>

Luis P. Mendes wrote:

>
> my program builds a dictionary that I would like to save in a file.


As others have said, there should be no reason to convert to a list 
before pickling -- AFAIK, there's no ban against pickling dictionaries.

You might also look into the Shelve module, which implements a 
filesystem-persisting object with dictionary access syntax.  (And which, 
IIRC, uses pickled dictionaries under the covers.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Nov 19 21:09:45 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:09:45 -0500
Subject: SQL Server stored prcedures with output parameters
In-Reply-To: <3c91a864.0411190733.1f8de68@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.6535.1100768372.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<419CAB0E.1040002@holdenweb.com>
	<3c91a864.0411190733.1f8de68@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <iJxnd.1295$QR.1294@lakeread01>

logistix at cathoderaymission.net wrote:

>>Well, in ADO you'd normally create a command object and then do 
>>something like
>>
>>objCmnd.Parameters.Append.CreateParameter("@link_id", &
>>		adInteger, adParamOutput, , 0)
>>
>>Unfortunately as far as I can see the DB API docs are silent on how to 
>>distinguish the output parameters to a callproc(), contenting itself 
>>with saying """The result of the call is returned as modified copy of 
>>the input sequence. Input parameters are left untouched, output and 
>>input/output parameters replaced with possibly new values."""
>>
> 
> 
> You need to create the parameter seperately so you get a reference to
> it.  My ADO is a little rusty, but it's something like:
> 
> outparam = win32com.client.Dispatch("ADODB.Paramter")
> # set param here instead of function
> objCmd.Parameters.Append(outparam)
> 
> Then you can access outparam after executing the stored proc.

Erm, I was trying to be DB API compatible in Python, so the ADO stuff 
was just a response to Tim Golden's comments.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Wed Nov 17 05:39:05 2004
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 02:39:05 -0800
Subject: Parallel processing
Message-ID: <5c882bb5.0411170239.2e5f61e2@posting.google.com>

Hello, this is a small tutorial page about NESL, an easy parallel
programming language:
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~scandal/nesl/tutorial2.html

Its syntax shares some similarities with python one, for example:

function factorial(n) =
  if (n <= 1) then 1
  else n*factorial(n-1);

{factorial(i) : i in [3, 1, 7]};

This computes "in parallel, for each i in the sequence [3, 1, 7],
factorial i"


{sum(a) : a in [[2,3], [8,3,9], [7]]};

sum of sequences is already a parallel operation, so this is a nested
parallelism example.

So it seems to me that Python can be already fit to be interpreted in
parallel, for multicore CPUs, Playstation Cell-like processors, etc.
(few things have to be changed/added in the syntax to make it fit for
parallelism).

Hugs,
bearophile


From mpatton2152 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 28 23:23:47 2004
From: mpatton2152 at yahoo.com (mpatton2152 at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 04 04:23:47 GMT
Subject: website hosting
Message-ID: <04112904234716704@newshost.allthenewsgroups.com>

Here is the link to the web hosting company that I use for my 3 sites.

http://frontpage-web-hosting.org/




From ofnap at nus.edu.sg  Fri Nov 12 09:48:09 2004
From: ofnap at nus.edu.sg (Ajith Prasad)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 06:48:09 -0800
Subject: PyTables:Installing hdf5
Message-ID: <37ee60c8.0411120648.3a2ad4c6@posting.google.com>

I am trying to install the WinXP version of PyTables which requires
hdf5 (from http://hdf.ncsa.uiuc.edu/HDF5/) as a pre-requisite.
However, I am at a loss as to how to install hdf5 - I have downloaded
the zipped version of hdf5 and unzipped it using WinZip but get a mass
of .exe and other files and have no clue as to how to proceed further.
Thanks in advance for any help.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 27 02:14:22 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 08:14:22 +0100
Subject: Protecting Python source
References: <f4a45085.0411260701.5859bf43@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gnwgsz.8wha9c1gk4r2rN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Alan Sheehan <adsheehan at eircom.net> wrote:

> Hi pythonistas,
> 
> I am looking for methods of deploying applications with end users so
> that the python code is tamper proof. What are my options ?

Like for any other language, the code you distribute _can_ be
decompiled, analyzed, studied, and modified, by any attacker determined
enough to bypass the technical and legal barriers.  If your code is
worth protecting, then it's worth attacking.

Like for any other language, a solid solution is to put crucial parts of
your application on a server that is entirely under your control,
accessed by the rest of the application (the part that you distribute)
via any distributed processing technology -- Corba, XML-RPC, pyro,
whatever.  The pluses and minuses are obvious: your application will run
only with network access (which is more and more widely available but
not yet universal); OTOH, you can exert fine control on who and when can
access the crucial parts (by subscription, pay per use, whatever
business model you fancy).  It's the only approach that can be made as
solid as the server you use, which is _very_ solid.  Even burning some
algorithms into a dedicated chip is less robust, since chips _do_ get
reverse engineered / decompiled too.

If all you want is to make the barriers as high as reasonably feasible,
crypted archives with a dedicated pyrex-coded module to decrypt and make
them accessible to the main program is one way.  Legal barriers however
tend to work better than technical ones, which may be perceived as
interesting challenges and stimulate attacks.  Note that just about any
piece of software that's widespread, whatever language and protection
scheme it may have used, is available in cracked form in the `warez'
circuits.  Go server-side as much as you can, and rely on the awesome
coercive powers of the state for the rest -- "go legal, young man".


Alex


From justinhsia at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  8 11:16:59 2004
From: justinhsia at yahoo.com (Chaser)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 08:16:59 -0800
Subject: ?? Modules for GPIB and Ethernet ??
References: <21240387.0411041337.7b17172b@posting.google.com>
	<0-GdnfBAPrZPXBfcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
	<21240387.0411050533.4d145e2a@posting.google.com>
	<slrncosk48.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
Message-ID: <21240387.0411080816.4ec27411@posting.google.com>

Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se> wrote in message news:<slrncosk48.36f.jgrahn-nntq at frailea.sa.invalid>...
> On 5 Nov 2004 05:33:49 -0800, Chaser <justinhsia at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<0-GdnfBAPrZPXBfcRVn-sw at powergate.ca>...
> >> Chaser wrote:
> >> > Just wondering if anyone knows where I can find modules for NI-488.2
> >> > GPIB and for a generic ethercard?
>  ...
> >> As for the other question: do you actually mean you want a
> >> way to talk "raw" Ethernet, or are you just trying to do
> >> some networking?
>  ...
> > I have an equipment that's controlled through ethernet.  (The control
> > program is currently written in C++.)  I guess my really difficulty
> > is, how do I send commmands to that devise through ethernet using
> > Python?
> 
> If this really is raw ethernet, I think your best multi-platform shot would
> be a bleeding edge version of libpcap (http://www.tcpdump.org), and a Python
> wrapper on top of it. Then make your OS accept the presence of the
> interface, but not send or listen to it, and use libpcap to listen and to
> inject (new feature in libpcap) ethernet frames.
> 
> It /might/ work.  High data rates may be a problem; libpcap with a
> relatively slow client might drop packets.
> 
> /Jorgen

Wow!  Thanks for the overwhelming support.  I am a computer
illiterate.  Please be patient with me.

I found the following posting that deals with GPIB interface using
Python.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=python+gpib&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=8aok7p%24j0%241%40nnrp1.deja.com&rnum=4

But I got stuck on the first step of installing the dynwin package. 
The dynwin package relies on two auxiliary dlls, calldll.pyd and
npstruct.pyd.

I literally downloaded the .zip, unzip them and "drag and drop" the
two .pyd into my Python24/DLLs folders.  Then I created a dynwin
folder in the Python24\Lib directory.

1.  Is this the right way?
2.  At the Python prompt, I typed "import windll" and got the error
message that the module doesn't exist!
3.  I then tried "import dynwin.windll" and Python says module calldll
doesn't exist!

HELP HELP HELP


From rtilley at vt.edu  Sun Nov  7 11:40:45 2004
From: rtilley at vt.edu (Brad Tilley)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 11:40:45 -0500
Subject: Python for Reverse Engineering
In-Reply-To: <cmlhv8$ajc$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
References: <cmhdi4$7vi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu><418c50ad$1_3@omega.dimensional.com>
	<418C54E9.2000409@vt.edu>
	<mailman.6042.1099806403.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmlhv8$ajc$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <cmlj6b$7j9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Duncan Smith wrote:
>>If your friend was worth his salt as an algorithm writer, he'd be more...
>>But--he is probably making impossible claims here, anyway...
>>
> 
> 
> [snip]
> 
> Doesn't that depend on exactly what is meant by "figure out exactly how the
> algorithm works"?  If it means identify (with absolute certainty) the
> algorithm used to generate the strings, then it surely can't be possible.
> 
> Duncan

That's my thought as well. I don't want to know exactly how the 
algorithm generates strings. But, I think that if I analyze enough 
strings I should know, on some level, what an acceptable string looks like.

Samba coders never see Microsoft's file and print sharing source code, 
yet they are able to emulate an NT server quite well just by observing 
packets.


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Wed Nov 10 15:15:54 2004
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 12:15:54 -0800
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0411101215.56ac8ae9@posting.google.com>

Hans Nowak <hans at zephyrfalcon.org> wrote in message news:<418C0DB6.1040007 at zephyrfalcon.org>...
> John Machin wrote:
> 
> > Or is this a joke/troll?? I can't believe the "unimelb.edu.au"; surely
> > a forgery.
> 
> Is it just me, or is the climate in c.l.py getting less friendly to 
> newbies?  In any case, 
> http://www.zoology.unimelb.edu.au/staff/nicholas.htm mentions Maurice 
> Ling as an honor student.

No it doesn't. It says "honours student", which indicates solely the
enrolment status, with none of the connotations of merit that might be
attached to the American phrase "honor student".

To the main point: I apologise profusely to the whole world for
starting the thread of the month by not putting "Please turn your
irony detectors on" at the top of my post.


From agriff at tin.it  Sat Nov 13 13:43:20 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 18:43:20 GMT
Subject: numarray + cPickle problem
References: <1100326589.669597.252570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1100366822.119444.157780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1100367031.042556.162860@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <t2lcp0l1b9lkfiv3jp8ejbro7vhgpi96fh@4ax.com>

On 13 Nov 2004 09:30:31 -0800, "Bill  Mill" <bill.mill at gmail.com>
wrote:

>Perhaps this should be mentioned in the cPickle documentation?

It *IS* documented...

  Pickler(...)
      Pickler(file, proto=0) -- Create a pickler.
 
      This takes a file-like object for writing a pickle
      data stream.
      The optional proto argument tells the pickler to
      use the given protocol; supported protocols are 0,
      1, 2. The default protocol is 0, to be backwards
      compatible.  (Protocol 0 is the only protocol that
      can be written to a file opened in text mode and
-->   read back successfully.  When using a protocol
-->   higher than 0, make sure the file is opened in
-->   binary mode, both when pickling and unpickling.)

      ...

Andrea


From someone at microsoft.com  Thu Nov 25 12:32:00 2004
From: someone at microsoft.com (Jive)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 17:32:00 GMT
Subject: A lock that times out but doesn't poll
References: <slrncq5vvl.61m.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <kGopd.3602822$yk.546791@news.easynews.com>

Okay, I've got a comment: How about some comments?  Maybe it's just me, but
I find the code a little hard to comprehend.

What's up with this?

Exception in thread Thread-456:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python23\lib\threading.py", line 436, in __bootstrap
    self.run()
  File "C:\Python23\lib\threading.py", line 544, in run
    self.function(*self.args, **self.kwargs)
  File "C:\Python23\Scripts\foo.py", line 29, in break_lock
    sc.pl.release()
error: release unlocked lock

That crops up occasionally.

It's been a while, but as I recall, the tricky bit in implementing timed
locks with an alarm clock thread is seeing to it that threads that don't
time out waiting on a timed lock do not leave zombie alarm clock threads
running.  If you are not careful, they could proliferate and eat up system
resources.


"Antoon Pardon" <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote in message
news:slrncq5vvl.61m.apardon at rcpc42.vub.ac.be...
> The queue and condition class allow threads to wait only a limited
> time. However this currently is implemented by a polling loop.
>
> Now for those who like to avoid polling I have here a Tlock
> class that allows for a timeout but doesn't use polling.
>
> All comments are welcome.
>
>
> ----------------------- Tlock.py -------------------------------
>
> import threading
>
> class TimeOut(Exception):
>   pass
>
> class Tlock:
>
>   def __init__(self):
>
>     self.mutex = threading.Lock()
>     self.lktab = [threading.Lock()]
>
>
>   def acquire(self, timeout=None):
>
>     class SC:
>       pass
>
>
>     def break_lock(sc, mutex, tab):
>
>       mutex.acquire()
>       try:
>         try:
>           i = tab.index(sc.pl, 1)
>           del tab[i]
>           sc.broken = True
>           sc.pl.release()
>           sc.pl.release()
>         except ValueError:
>           pass
>       finally:
>         mutex.release()
>
>
>     self.mutex.acquire()
>     sc=SC()
>     sc.ll = threading.Lock()
>     sc.ll.acquire()
>     self.lktab.append(sc.ll)
>     sc.pl = self.lktab[-2]
>     sc.broken = False
>     if len(self.lktab) > 2 and timeout is not None:
>       tm = threading.Timer(timeout, break_lock,
>                            args=[sc, self.mutex, self.lktab])
>       tm.start()
>     else:
>       tm = None
>     self.mutex.release()
>     sc.pl.acquire()
>     if sc.broken:
>       raise TimeOut, "lock timed out"
>     else:
>       if tm is not None:
>         tm.cancel()
>
>
>   def release(self):
>
>     self.mutex.acquire()
>     self.lktab[0].release()
>     del self.lktab[0]
>     self.lktab[0].release()
>     self.mutex.release()
>
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>
>   from time import sleep
>   from random import randint
>
>   T = Tlock()
>
>   def thrd(Id):
>
>     for _ in xrange(100):
>       try:
>         print "Trying %d" % Id
>         T.acquire(randint(0,6))
>         print "Entering %d" % Id
>         sleep(randint(0,6))
>         print "Leaving %d" % Id
>         T.release()
>       except TimeOut, ErrId:
>         print "Failed %d" % Id
>       sleep(randint(0,6))
>
>
>   for i in xrange(5):
>     th = threading.Thread(target=thrd, args=(i,))
>     th.start()




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Nov  4 09:44:17 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 09:44:17 -0500
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
In-Reply-To: <OO-dncaCD70Y3BTcRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
References: <cthoeigtdun.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>	<slrncohmqk.n07.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<TfOdna4IePwZexXcRVn-pA@powergate.ca>	<TbadndhdMqHzaRXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>	<TbadndtdMqGHaBXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>	<6_qdnQZOZ_YYZRXcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>	<slrncoi7qs.dnr.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>	<E_udnZeXtbXWuxTcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5872.1099512105.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<OO-dncaCD70Y3BTcRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <veSdnQjkDJGCoxfcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>

(Sorry if duplicate: NTTP server screwed up.)

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Thomas Heller wrote:
>> # raise exception in thread
>> print pythonapi.PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc(t, id(exc))
> 
> I should note for the record that neither Thomas'
> example above nor even my more complex one
> ... implements the required API fully.

A further addendum, or a caution/concern:

The docs also say that you should own the GIL when
you call this routine.  I suspect that in fact you
are supposed to have a lock on the GIL during the
_entire time_ that you are working with this routine,
specifically around all the following (pseudo)code:

n = PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc(id, Py_Object *)
if n > 1:
     PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc(id, NULL)

I suspect that the only reason the second call works
(supposedly it "reverts the effects" of the first call)
is because the interpreter has not had time to execute
any more bytecodes in the affected threads.  But since
the precise definition of this "reversion" is undocumented,
going to the source or an expert (which I'm clearly not)
would be the only way to sort out such "minor" issues...

-Peter


From gregory.lielens at fft.be  Sat Nov 27 18:50:28 2004
From: gregory.lielens at fft.be (gregory lielens)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 00:50:28 +0100
Subject: subclassing extension type and assignment to __class__
In-Reply-To: <ekifcac8.fsf@telus.net>
References: <41a87eb5$0$13482$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> <ekifcac8.fsf@telus.net>
Message-ID: <41a912a8$0$25051$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

Thanks for your answer, it means I am not the only one having this kind 
of problem...
> I have just run into the same thing with the builtin list type. The trick
> was not to declare my subclass directly from list, but rather a subclass
> of list. So try this:
> 
> class PClassBase(_PClass):
>     pass
> 
> class PClass(PClassBase):
>     ...
> 
> class PClass2(PClassBase):
>     ...
>
I think here you mean PClass2(PClassBase2), with a 
PClassBase2(_PClass2): In my example the 2 class do not inherit fro the 
same base class...
> Why? I cannot say other than I have noted that Python new-style classes
> and extension types are not quite the same thing. That is, a new-style
> class is a particular kind of extension type.

I see how it can help me making PClassBase a PClass (or any type derived 
from PClassBase), but what I fail to see is how this will allow me to 
change a _PClass into one of it's derived types: this is necessary for 
updating methods of _PClass2 that return object of type _PClass (and on 
this I do not have much control, both _PClass and _PClass2 and all of 
their methods are implemented in C++). To updates theses methods for the 
pure python derived class PClass2, I have to make them return the python 
class PClass instead of the original _PClass, which means I still have 
to transform a _PClass object into its derived type PClassBase or 
PClass, and at this time things go pear-shaped :-(....or is there 
something I miss?



Greg.


From drew at gremlinhosting.com  Sun Nov 28 04:03:02 2004
From: drew at gremlinhosting.com (Andrew James)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 09:03:02 +0000
Subject: Python GTK import error
In-Reply-To: <b7420408.0411272021.70172ccd@posting.google.com>
References: <b7420408.0411231408.38c2f03a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6737.1101253908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<b7420408.0411272021.70172ccd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1101632582.9345.2.camel@odin>

Try checking the permissions on the link and the library - if you
installed the module manually the permissions may not allow anyone but
the root user to import the module.

Andrew

On Sat, 2004-11-27 at 20:21 -0800, Qianqian Fang wrote:
> no, the file is there, it actually links to another file:
> 
> /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.400.13
> 
> but both files are in the right locations.
> anything else that is suspecious to the problem?
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> Douglas Soares de Andrade <dsa at unilestemg.br> wrote in message news:<mailman.6737.1101253908.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> > Hi !
> > 
> > The error is that the system ins't finding this lib:
> > 
> > /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0
> > 
> > Try to see if your system has it.
> > 
> > See ya !
-- 
Andrew James <drew at gremlinhosting.com>



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Nov 16 13:42:11 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:42:11 -0800
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
In-Reply-To: <slrncpjdjo.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <mailman.6380.1100532166.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpjdjo.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <10pkiaqch4edo08@corp.supernews.com>

Antoon Pardon wrote:

>Op 2004-11-15, Jp Calderone schreef <exarkun at divmod.com>:
>  
>
>>You are correct, but why does it matter?  The Queue class works.
>>    
>>
>
>Does it?
>
>I'm not so sure. If two consumers ask simultaneously for an element
>from the same empty queue. One consumer simply blocking and the
>other using a timeout, I think that if an element is produced within
>the timeout period the chance for the element going to either consumer
>should be equal. I doubr very much we have that in the current
>situation.
>  
>

This is just my opinion, of course, but it seems to me that if you have 
two completely different threads (as in, threads running different 
functions, not merely separate instances of the same threaded function) 
which are accessing the same queue in different ways, and presumably 
doing different things with the queue's products (because why would you 
access the queue differently if you weren't doing different things?), 
then you've *already* got enough nondeterministic behavior that this 
timeout issue isn't going to be a burden in practice.  To be honest, I 
find the thought of having different consumers which do different things 
with a single queue's products to just scream out as a source of 
hard-to-track problems -- how could one possibly get predictable 
behavior from that?  So yes, if you do that, you might get an odd 
distribution of products -- but why would you want to do it?

I *do* understand about wanting to receive signals in (worker) threads, 
but I don't understand how this particular behavior of queues could ever 
be a practical problem in a real program.  Of course, maybe I'm just 
missing something, or maybe you're looking at this from a 
theoretical-purity aspect...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From mdraghi at prosud.com  Sun Nov 14 23:35:27 2004
From: mdraghi at prosud.com (Mariano Draghi)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:35:27 -0300
Subject: Combining arbitrary lists
In-Reply-To: <41982e45$1_4@alt.athenanews.com>
References: <41982269$1_1@alt.athenanews.com>	<mailman.6367.1100491265.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41982e45$1_4@alt.athenanews.com>
Message-ID: <cn9bin$564$1@sea.gmane.org>

Nick wrote:
...
>> I think this is what you're looking for:
>> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/302478
...
> Okay... a) THANK-YOU, and b) HOW did you find that?

The ASPN Python Cookbook has plenty of these kind of things.
I looked for "combination" there... I think (don't remember exactly).

You can also do a search in the comp.lang.python group using Google.
Try this:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=combination&meta=group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Regards,

-- 
Mariano



From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Wed Nov 17 11:26:17 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:26:17 -0500
Subject: newbie question
In-Reply-To: <301aedF2q0m75U1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <c30e885a.0411160835.35e39084@posting.google.com>	<mailman.6431.1100623812.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<301aedF2q0m75U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <419B7BA9.8000905@bellsouth.net>

Paul Watson wrote:

>"Jeremy Jones" <zanesdad at bellsouth.net> wrote in message 
>news:mailman.6431.1100623812.5135.python-list at python.org...
>  
>
>>John wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Can python do Shell programming or system programming as perl does?
>>>Thanks.
>>>
>>>John
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Yes.  The only problem is that the perpetual migraine you have from doing 
>>Perl and shell will quickly go away.  So, if you're into pain, stick with 
>>Perl and shell.  If you want relief, come to Python.
>>
>>Seriously, though, Python is an excellent language for doing sysadmin type 
>>tasks. (I'm assuming that's kind of what you wanted?)  Most sysadmin type 
>>tasks are in modules whereas with Perl, they're cluttering the toplevel 
>>namespace (I don't think Perl has the concept of namespace, but you get 
>>the drift).  So, not knowing what you want to do, you may want to checkout 
>>the os module in Python (I've found os.path.* to be specifically helpful). 
>>You may also want to checkout the shutil module.
>>Jeremy
>>    
>>
>
>While I usually use Python, I must admit that doing:
>    $s = `ls -al $thefilename`
>seems easier and clearer than:
>    import os
>    s = os.popen("ls -al %s" % thefilename) 
>
>
>  
>
I find that :

import glob
s = glob.glob(thefilename)

works pretty well. 

If you need to iterate over a bunch of files in a directory, you can do 
this in shell:

for f in `ls *`
do
    #do stuff
done

or

for f in *
do
    #do stuff
done

and in Python:

import os
for f in os.listdir('.'):
    pass # do stuff here

or

import glob
for i in glob.glob('ipythonrc-*'):
    pass #do stuff here

Some things, mostly very simple tasks, shell is fine for.  When you 
start increasing in complexity, I think you're better off using Python.  
The samples above are *quite* simple and you'd probably be just as well 
of doing them in shell as in Python.  Actually better from a shell 
prompt rather than a script.


Jeremy Jones
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From ncoghlan at email.com  Tue Nov 30 07:30:21 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 22:30:21 +1000
Subject: pre-PEP generic objects
In-Reply-To: <a8Oqd.110119$V41.14593@attbi_s52>
References: <a8Oqd.110119$V41.14593@attbi_s52>
Message-ID: <41ac67dd$0$25770$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

The proposed use cases sound more appropriate for a "named tuple" than any sort 
of dictionary. (This may have been mentioned in previous discussions. I wasn't 
keeping track of those, though)

Notice that I've used 'fromPairs' rather than 'fromMapping', since consistent 
order matters for a tuple. Comparison semantics are inherited directly from 
tuple, and don't care about names (they're only interested in values).

Also, it seems like there has to be a better way to do the "opposite of zip()" 
in fromPairs(), but I sure as hell can't think of it.

Cheers,
Nick.

 >>> a = named_tuple(['x', 'y'], (3, 8))
 >>> a
named_tuple(['x', 'y'], (3, 8))
 >>> a.x
3
 >>> a.y
8
 >>> str(a)
'(3, 8)'
 >>> b = named_tuple.fromPairs(sorted({'x':3, 'y':8}.items()))
 >>> b
named_tuple(['x', 'y'], (3, 8))
 >>> b.x
3
 >>> b.y
8
 >>> str(b)
'(3, 8)'
 >>> a == b
True
 >>>

And the code for the above:

class named_tuple(tuple):
     def __new__(cls, names, *args):
         self = tuple.__new__(cls, *args)
         self._names = dict(zip(names, range(len(names))))
         return self

     @staticmethod
     def fromPairs(items):
         names = [x[0] for x in items]
         values = [x[1] for x in items]
         return named_tuple(names, values)

     def __getattr__(self, attr):
         if attr in self._names:
             return self[self._names[attr]]
         else:
             return tuple.__getattr__(attr)

     def __repr__(self):
         return "named_tuple(%s, %s)" % (str(self.names()),
                                         str(tuple.__repr__(self)))

     def __str__(self):
         return tuple.__repr__(self)

     def names(self):
         return sorted(self._names.keys(), key=self._names.__getitem__)


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Nov  9 08:36:16 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 08:36:16 -0500
Subject: mod_python, multiple calls to PythonAuthenHandler
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.08.15.25.55.131182@scanmine.com>
References: <pan.2004.11.08.09.08.47.408661@scanmine.com>
	<AsKjd.13323$931.11468@lakeread01>
	<pan.2004.11.08.15.25.55.131182@scanmine.com>
Message-ID: <4P3kd.13460$931.131@lakeread01>

Rune Hansen wrote:

> On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 08:18:45 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:
> 
> 
>>Rune Hansen wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I've posted this question on the mod_python mailing list but didn't get 
>>>much response, so I thought I'd post it here.
>>>
[...]
> 
> Now, I've "solved it" with a single PythonHandler (dropping
> PythonAuthenHandler and publisher):
> 
> def handler(req):
>     if not req.headers_in.get("Authorization",0):
>     	req.err_headers_out["WWW-Authenticate"] = 'Basic realm="Restricted\
>     	area"'
>         raise apache.SERVER_RETURN, apache.HTTP_UNAUTHORIZED
>     meth,auth = req.headers_in.get("Authorization").split(" ") 
>     user,pw = decodestring(auth).split(":")
>     args = dict([(a[0],a[1]) for a in util.parse_qsl(req.args or '')]) 
>     if dbmdbValidate(user,pw,req.server):
> 	return myMethod(req,**args)
>     else:
> 	return apache.HTTP_UNAUTHORIZED
> 
> This seems to do exactly what I want. Guess I should have tried a litle
> harder before posting.
> How ever, I'm still curious to why the PythonAuthenHandler is called for
> each path element.
> 

I'm afraid that's a little beyond me too, but I think you were quite 
within your rights to post the question. Glad you've got past the problem.

Since you're using the publisher handler you might want to consider 
using the methods described in 
http://www.modpython.org/live/current/doc-html/hand-pub-alg-auth.html if 
you haven't already looked at them.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Nov 15 02:47:18 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 23:47:18 -0800
Subject: os.path.exists discrepancy
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E32451F4@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

I've got a webapp which is behaving oddly. I want to include an image on
the webpage, but only if the physical file exists; if it doesn't, I
don't want an img element to generate an ugly blank box. I know the
physical location of the image(s) in question, and figured I'd use
os.path.exists to see if each file exists. A quick test in the
interpreter yields:

>>> os.path.exists(u'S:/Scans/Projects/2004/TJ/04TJ0267.jpg')
True

However, when I run the following code in the webapp (served by Apache2
+ mod_python on the same Win2k machine):

    if not os.path.exists(path):
        scan = u"<!-- scan image not found: %s -->" % repr(path)

...I get the output:

<!-- scan image not found: u'S:/Scans/Projects/2004/TJ/04TJ0267.jpg' -->

As you can see, the two paths are equal. Prompting my reaction: bzuh? My
next thought was to read through the os module source--perhaps the
import of "path" was dependent on context. It is, but os.path.__file__
is the same in both contexts: 'C:\\Python23\\lib\\ntpath.pyc'

Any ideas or workarounds?


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From roy at panix.com  Thu Nov 25 12:22:52 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 12:22:52 -0500
Subject: network programming without goto (refactoring)
References: <mailman.6783.1101394437.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-2D5E23.12225225112004@reader1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.6783.1101394437.5135.python-list at python.org>,
 kent sin <kentsin at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Please help:
> 
> I was really blocked here. without goto I really do
> not known how to do it.
> 
> The problem is to use PyZ3950 to consult a lists of
> hosts and for each of them to search for a list of
> targets. Since the network is undetermined, there were
> always some exceptions: I would like to allow it to
> retry for 3 times. Moreover, during the query process,
> the conn will timeout (set by the remote server).
> Reconnect is preferred before fail the current search,
> but the reconnect may fail even if the first try is
> succeed.


[spaghetti code deleted for brevity]

The real problem you've got is that you're trying to smash too much 
stuff into one function.  You've got several things going on here at 
once.  First, you're iterating over several hosts to try.  Next, you're 
making several attempts to connect to each host.  Lastly, you've got 
some buildquery()/search() stuff going on (whatever that may be).  I'm 
not at all sure what you're trying to do with "for t in targets", but 
I'm going to assume it's somehow related to iterating over the various 
hosts.

What you want to do is refactor this into a number of smaller functions, 
each one encapsulating one piece of the puzzle.  To start, I'd build a 
function which handled the multiple connection attempts to a given host.  
Maybe something like this:

#
# Untested code -- this is just to give you some ideas
# and get you thinking in the right direction
#
def connectWithRetries (host, port, retryLimit):
   attempts = 0
   while attempts < retryLimit:
      try:
         connection = zoom.Connection (host, port)
         return connection
      except ConnectionError:
         attempts += 1
   throw ConnectionError

Then, I'd handle the iteration over multiple hosts:

def connectToSomeHost (hostlist, port):
   for host in hostlist:
      try:
         connection = connectWithRetries (host, port)
         return connection
      except ConnectionError:
         # ignore
   throw ConnectionError

Finally, It's time to implement your query logic, which I'll leave as an 
exercise for the reader (mostly because I don't really understand what 
you're trying to do with that).

None of this is network-specfic or even Python-specific.  The idea of 
breaking up a complex operation into smaller steps and implementing each 
one in its own function is pretty much a universal idea.  Each function 
can be easily designed and tested on its own (and, later, understood by 
a future reader).

The question then becomes, how to decide what stuff to put in what 
function?  There's no hard and fast rules, but the general idea is that 
each function should do one thing, or a small set of very closely 
related things.  For example, I could imagine possibly combining 
connectWithRetries() and connectToSomeHost into a single larger function 
that did both tasks, because they're both part of the basic "get a 
connection to a host" concept.  But, getting the connection and using it 
to perform a query definitely don't belong together.

Here's some rules of thumb:

Several smaller functions are usually better than one larger one.

If you can't see the entire function code without scrolling in your 
editor, it's too big.  With todays windowing systems, that probably 
means about 40 lines.

If it's got more than a couple of loops, or more than a couple of try 
blocks, you're probably doing too much in a single function.

If you can't explain to somebody in a single sentence what your function 
is doing, it's doing too much.

The take-home assignment is to DAGS for "refactoring".  There's been a 
lot written on the subject in the last 5-10 years.  A lot of what's been 
written assumes an object oriented environment (in a C++ or Java like 
language), but the basic concepts hold for all languages, and for 
procedural as well as OO styles.


From pierre.barbier at cirad.fr  Thu Nov 25 05:44:18 2004
From: pierre.barbier at cirad.fr (Pierre Barbier de Reuille)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:44:18 +0100
Subject: Operator Overloading
In-Reply-To: <co48s1$r1f$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <f6b69c93.0411250014.61315219@posting.google.com>
	<co48s1$r1f$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <41a5b716$0$17605$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Peter Maas a ?crit :
> Sebastien Boisgerault schrieb:
> 
>> I wonder if the following quotation from the Python Reference Manual 
>> (release 2.3.3) about operator overloading is true :
>>
>> "For example, if a class defines a method named __getitem__(), and x
>> is
>> an instance of this class, then x[i] is equivalent to
>> x.__getitem__(i)"
> 
> [...]
> 
>>>>> from Numeric import *
>>>>> a = array([0.5])
>>>>> a[0]
>>
>>
>> 0.5
>>
>> but
>>
>>
>>>>> a.__getitem__(0)
>>
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>> AttributeError: __getitem__
> 
> 
> The quotation above is true. Short form:
> 
> IF __getitem__ in dict THEN [] works.

That's not true !!! I's true only for classes defined in Python. If you 
try to define a class in C, defining the __getitem__ method does not 
lead to the existence of "[]". But when you define "[]" it creates the 
"__getitem__" method. This is part of the reason why you cannot dervie 
from two types if they derives from different classes written in another 
language and imported in Python (just try to create a class deriving 
from list and dict ...).

Pierre


From mep_ at 163.com  Tue Nov 30 07:53:21 2004
From: mep_ at 163.com (mep)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:53:21 +0800
Subject: UML and OO design tool with Python support
References: <f8fqd.47331$KQ2.46722@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3138r6F352en5U1@uni-berlin.de>

Any free UML modelling tools that generate python code?


-- 
Best Regards,
Wang Kebo

http://www.huihoo.org/~mep



"Paul McGuire" <ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com> wrote in message
news:f8fqd.47331$KQ2.46722 at fe2.texas.rr.com...
> I just found out that my favorite UML modeling tool, Enterprise Architect,
> has just released a new version, *with* Python code support.  You can
> download EA at http://www.sparxsystems.com.au.  It is not free, but I
think
> it is very reasonably priced for the features it provides (under $200
gives
> you good UML graphical modeling, including sequence and class diagrams,
with
> code reverse engineering and round-tripping, vs. $000's for comparable
> Rational environment).
>
> Well, as it turns out, the Python support is still a bit buggy but I have
> already gotten good mileage from this tool in other applications, most
> notably reverse engineering C++ and C# code, so the Python additions are
> icing on the cake.  But it is certainly another reassuring note, to see
the
> inclusion of Python support into this commercial software development
tool.
>
> I've already started to forward bug reports for some of the Python import
> errors.  Perhaps if they get more feedback from other Python users, it
will
> help reinforce their opinion of Pythonistas as a valuable target market
> segment.
>
> -- Paul
>
>
> Note: I am *not* an employee or in any way connected with the supplier of
> this code, other than as a satistifed customer.
>
> Note2: the Python support is not an obvious product feature.  It requires
> installation of a separate (free) add-in, downloaded from the Sparxsystems
> web site.  The add-in must be separately "add-in"ed to each project, too,
> instead of just being a globally installed plug-in.  My first couple of
> attempts failed at completely reverse engineering my pyparsing module,
> although I did get a nice first-pass class inheritance diagram for PIL.
We
> take what we can get...
>
>




From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Wed Nov  3 14:52:24 2004
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 19:52:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<uef2o0dkckqmnifgpt78n3sg8ai6a1g05c@4ax.com>
	<slrncoem5p.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmaq49$q5c$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <cmbcto$1ba$1@fred.mathworks.com>

JCM <joshway_without_spam at myway.com> wrote:
> Gabriel Zachmann <zach at cs.uni-bonn.de> wrote:
>>>  You didn't mention C++. Try this ...
>>>  
>>>     std::string s = "Wow";
>>>     s += 3.141592654; // Perfectly valid
>>>     s = 3.141592654;  // Also valid

>> ah, good example.

>> So, would it be valid to say:
>> the more coercion (or automatic conversion) rules a language has, the
>> weaker the typing?

> If that's what your definition of weak typing is.  The OP seemed to be
> asking about re-interpreting the representation of a value of one type
> as a different type.

Oops--I guess you are the OP.

When people talk about "weak typing" they generally mean either
implicit conversions (or operations on values of different types),
or reinterpreting representations of values as a different type.
The former, in my opinion, is not about weak typing.


From corey.coughlin at attbi.com  Wed Nov 17 20:29:40 2004
From: corey.coughlin at attbi.com (Corey Coughlin)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 17:29:40 -0800
Subject: Parallel processing
References: <5c882bb5.0411170239.2e5f61e2@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6501.1100717187.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a8623416.0411171729.4e775559@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.6501.1100717187.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> There are various other reasons why Python is not as parallelizable as
> you would think.  Among them is the semantics of scoping, and whether
> there is shared or unshared scope among the processors/nodes.  If shared,
> then any operation that could change scopes would need to be distributed
> (ick), or if unshared, then you are basically looking at an
> automatically distributed tuplespace (LINDA).  It gets even uglier with
> certain kinds of generators.
> 
> Regardless of which one is the case, heavy modifications to Python would
> necessarily need to be done in order to make them happen.
> 
> 
>  - Josiah

Well, I'm not sure it's necessarily that grim.  Generally, taking an
inference engine something like that proposed for Starkiller, tracking
variable types as closely as possible, adding some data flow
capability to follow the execution path, you could probably do
something useful.  With Python's for..in loop syntax, the prohibition
against chaning loop variables there, and list comprehensions,
parallelized loop unrolling, done intelligently, could help out a lot
on parallel architectures.  Sure, it'd be hard to do effectively in a
strictly interpreted environment, but if Starkiller ever comes out, it
seems almost inevitable.  Then again, that project seems to be getting
later all the time.  :(


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Nov  7 15:22:08 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 14:22:08 -0600
Subject: Python OS
References: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmin1n$500$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.6003.1099752590.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmiorc$j4b$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.6021.1099783808.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmk7r1$4d0$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<mailman.6059.1099837930.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmldu9$a72$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.6080.1099848517.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmlr0j$m3p$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <x78y9dquj3.fsf@guru.mired.org>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> writes:

> For example you can't write a OS for the JAVA VM, as there is no such things
> like interrupts defined for it - instead IO happends "magically" and is
> dealt with on the low level with the underlying OS. The VM only consumes
> the results.

OS's have been written for VMs (LISP and Forth) that didn't have the
notion of interrupt before they were built. For LISPMs, interrupt
handlers are LISP objects (*). Java may not be as powerful as LISP,
but I'm pretty sure you could turn interrupts into method invocations
without having to extend the VM.

    <mike
 
(*) <URL: http://home.comcast.net/%7Eprunesquallor/memo444.htm >,
under the section on Stack Groups.

-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Wed Nov 10 15:51:14 2004
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:51:14 -0800
Subject: Beginner's scoping question
In-Reply-To: <4ef0f3a4.0411101240.21132006@posting.google.com>
References: <4ef0f3a4.0411101240.21132006@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200411101251.14700.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

If you make an assignment in a method, the name assumes a local scope in 
python. "b" was not assigned so did not assume local scope.

James

On Wednesday 10 November 2004 12:40 pm, Alan Little wrote:
> a=1
> b=[]
> class C():
>    def __init__(self):
>       a=2
>       b.append(3)
>
> c = C()
>
> print b
> # [3]
>
> # but ...
> print a
> # 1
>
> ???

-- 
James Stroud, Ph.D.
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
611 Charles E. Young Dr. S.
MBI 205, UCLA 951570
Los Angeles CA 90095-1570
http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Nov 23 04:26:32 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 11:26:32 +0200
Subject: Python Tutorials, about 100 and sorted by Topic or Category
References: <a5415304.0411201216.7cbfdddd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4g06q0t7dim3c8r37202jasut5ufafmgof@4ax.com>

On 20 Nov 2004 12:16:23 -0800, rumours say that rstephens at vectron.com
(Ron Stephens) might have written:

>http://www.awaretek.com/tutorials.html

Great job, Ron :)
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
"Tssss!" --Brad Pitt as Achilles in unprecedented Ancient Greek


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 16:31:33 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 21:31:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmp6xu.zmiw6gs3250sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5890.1099529745.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmpyz8.11h86a71kjmdttN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5916.1099587353.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdntd$788$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5920.1099589545.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmqqa3.r7hg5g17qatxkN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5931.1099600462.5135.python-list@pyth
	<1gmqxmb.1r4easa174a86N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041104T220127-161@post.gmane.org>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit <at> yahoo.com> writes:
> 
> I apologize if I have given the impression of being upset.

No problem -- my mistake for misinterpreting you.  I'm just sensitive to these
kind of things because I know I've previously miscommunicated, and
unintentionally got people upset before (you being one of them). ;)

> I am, in a
> way, I guess -- astonished and nonplusses, as if somebody asked me to
> justify the existence of bread -- not of some exotic food, mind you, but
> of the most obvious, elementary, fundamental substance of earthly
> sustenance (in my culture, and many others around it).

Yeah, this goes to the heart of the misunderstanding.  I'm not asking anyone to
justify the _existence_ of weak-typing.  Weak-typing is a direct result of a
language's support for untyped (bit/byte) data.  I agree 100% that this sort of
data is not only useful, but often essential in any low-level (e.g. OS, hardware
driver, etc.) code.

> So, we have an area
> of 8 bytes in memory which we need to be able to treat as:
>     8 bytes, for I/O purposes, say;
>     a float, to feed it to some specialized register, say;
>     a bit indicating sign plus 15 for mantissa plus 48 for significand,
>         or the like, to perform masking and shifting thereof in SW -- a
>         structure of three odd-bit-sized integers juxtaposed;

As a quick refresher, I quote myself in what I was looking for:
"taking advantage of weak-typing would be a case where you treat the bits as
three different things: the sequence of bits, and two (mutually exclusive)
intended structures."

My response to this example is that your two intended structures are not
mutually exclusive.  Yes, you have to do some bit-twiddling, but only because
your float struct doesn't have get_sign, get_mantissa and get_significand
methods.  ;)  You're still dealing with the same representation, not converting
to a different type.  You're just addressing a lower level part of the
representation.

I can see the point though: at least in most of the languages I'm familiar with,
float is declared as a type while there's no subtype of float that specifies the
sign, mantissa and significand.
 
(Oh, and by the way, in case you really were wondering, they still do teach
float representations, even in computer science (as opposed to computer
engineering), or at least they did through 1999.)

> Another example: we're going to send a controlblock of 64 bytes to some
> HW peripheral, and get it back perhaps with some mods -- a typical
> control/status arrangement.  Depending on the top 2 (or in some case 4)
> bytes' value, the structure may need to be interpreted in several
> possible ways, in terms of juxtaposition of characters, halfwords and
> longwords.  Again, the driver responsible for talking with this
> peripheral needs to be able to superimpose on the 64 bytes any of
> several possible C-level struct's -- the cleanest way to do this would
> appear to be pointer-casting, though unions would (as usual, of course)
> be essentially equivalent.

Is the interpretation of the controlblock uniquely defined by the top 2 or 4
bytes, or are there some values for the top 2 or 4 bytes for which I have to
apply two different interpretations (C-level structs) to the same sequence of 
bits?

If the top 2 or 4 bytes uniquely define the structs, then I would just say
you're just going back and forth between a typed structure and its untyped
representation.  If the top 2 or 4 bytes can specify multiple interpretations
for the same sequence of bits, then this is the example I was looking for. =)

Steve



From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 15 16:46:04 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:46:04 -0500
Subject: round() to nearest .05 ?
In-Reply-To: <i7KdnYIX-5yQigTcRVn-gg@is.co.za>
References: <i7KdnYIX-5yQigTcRVn-gg@is.co.za>
Message-ID: <41992281$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>

tertius wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to round my float total to the nearest .05 cents.

If you want the *nearest* .05, this works:
 >>> def fivecents(f):
...   return round(f*2.0, 1) / 2.0
...
 >>> for f in [ 12.01, 0.14, 2.28, 703.81]:
...   print f, fivecents(f)
...
12.01 12.0
0.14 0.15
2.28 2.3
703.81 703.8

> 12.01    should produce 12.00
>  0.14    should produce 0.10
>  2.28          "        2.25
> 703.81         "        703.80

Your example seems to be rounding down always, not what I would call 
nearest. Here is one that always rounds toward zero:
 >>> def lowerfivecents(f):
...   return int(f*20) / 20.0
...
 >>> for f in [ 12.01, 0.14, 2.28, 703.81]:
...   print f, lowerfivecents(f)
...
12.01 12.0
0.14 0.1
2.28 2.25
703.81 703.8

If you want to always round toward more negative, use math.floor() 
instead of int().

Kent
> 
> "%.02f"%100.0099 produces 100.01 (which I know is right)
> No combination of round and/or "%.02f" works for me.
> 
> What's the best way to get there? Should I write a function to manage my 
> rounding or is there a simpler/better way?
> 
> TIA
> T


From davecook at nowhere.net  Tue Nov 30 04:51:00 2004
From: davecook at nowhere.net (Dave Cook)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:51:00 GMT
Subject: Python Design Patterns
References: <Xns95B0685EABF53Help..recipe.4.9.in.@130.139.56.200>
Message-ID: <slrncqogk4.ben.davecook@localhost.localdomain>

On 2004-11-29, Tony Ha <tony.ha at philips.com> wrote:

> I wonder, can any Python guru out there translate the Java examples in the 

Should be a good exercise, and not just for gurus ;}.

> book into Python examples, or write a similar book in Python, perhaps

I've also wished for a design patterns book aimed at Python, or at least
dynamic languages with first class functions and modules.  There's a paper
Python book with "Patterns" in the title, but it has precious little content
in it related to design patterns, at least not the GOF variety.

This web book has the word "Patterns" in it, too:

http://www.brpreiss.com/books/opus7/

But looks like it's mainly data structures.  

If you do a google search, and also search the Python Cookbook

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Python/Cookbook/

you can find examples of:

Singleton
Borg
Null
Factory
Observer (including a Publish/Subscribe recipe)
Memento
State
Decorator
Masquerading and Adaptation patterns (Alex Martelli paper)
Template (another Alex Martelli paper)
Chain of Responsibility
Proxy
Prototype

There must be good examples in actual source code out there, too.

> called "Head First Design Patterns in Python". I think, this will be a 
> great addition to Python books, and a great benefit to Python community.

I just bought this book as well.  I must have adult ADD, because I do enjoy
the Head First format, though I disdained it at first.

> P.S. I am not sure is this the right news group to post this request.

Yup, this is the place. 

Dave Cook


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Nov 18 07:58:49 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 12:58:49 GMT
Subject: Named tuples
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.6511.1100727971.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnf6b7.nnqkns1c991f3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6520.1100738474.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10pntj5m0spvl3f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.6521.1100740991.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<hcUmd.520265$mD.141102@attbi_s02> <419c20da.344317031@news.oz.net>
	<k3Wmd.45854$V41.9126@attbi_s52>
	<mailman.6539.1100779323.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns95A58409D7845duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

> There are a few requirements that can be imposed to avoid problems.
> First, __names__ is clearly a property, acessed via get & set (which
> allows to trap some errors). It should accept only tuples as an
> argument (not lists) to avoid potential problems with external
> references and mutability of the names. As for the validation, I'm not
> sure if it's a good idea to check for strings. maybe just check if the
> 'names' stored in the tuple are immutable (or perhaps 'hashable') is
> enough.
> 

Your idea of a __names__ attribute suffers from a problem that the common 
use case would be to return a tuple with appropriate names. Right now you 
can do that easily in one statement but if you have to assign to an 
attribute it becomes messy.

An alternative would be so add a named argument to the tuple constructor so 
we can do:

    	return tuple(('1', '2'), names=('ONE', 'TWO'))

and that would set the __names__ property. If you allow this then you can 
make the __names__ property readonly and the problem of introducing a cycle 
in the __names__ attributes goes away.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Nov 16 13:45:02 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:45:02 -0800
Subject: determining the number of output arguments
In-Reply-To: <1gnc34a.1h31tyf1qbqr06N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnc34a.1h31tyf1qbqr06N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041115234445.F964.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:
> 
> Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
> 
> > > a, b, c, d = lotsa[:4]
> > > 
> > > _should_ properly give the impression of a code smell, if your "once and
> > > only once" sense is finely tuned.  What's the business of that ':4' on
> > > the RHS?  Showing the compiler that you can count correctly?!  You're
>    ...
> > The slicing on the right is not so much to show the compiler that you
> > know how to count, it is to show the runtime that you are looking for
> > a specified slice of lotsa.  How would you like the following two cases
> > to be handled by your desired Python, and how would that make more sense
> > than what is done now?
> > 
> > a,b,c = [1,2,3,4]
> > a,b,c = [1,2]
> 
> I would like to get exceptions in these cases, which, being exactly what
> IS done now, makes exactly as much sense as itself.  Note that there is
> no indicator in either of these forms that non-rigid unpacking is
> desired.  Assuming the indicator for 'and all the rest' were a prefix
> star, then:
> 
> a, b, *c = [1, 2, 3, 4]
> a, b, *c = [1, 2]
> 
> should both set a to 1, b to 2, and c respectively to [3, 4] and [].  Of
> course there would still be failing cases:
> 
> a, b, *c = [1]
> 
> this should still raise -- 'a, b, *c' needs at least 2 items to unpack.

The only limitation right now is Guido.  That is, you need to convince
Guido, and likely get the syntax implemented.  See James Knight's post
on 11/12/2004 in python-dev (or my recent quoting here) with a quote
from Guido in regards to this syntax.


> > > I think it would be better to have a way to say 'and all the rest'.
> > > Lacking that, some automated way to count how many items are being
> > > unpacked on the LHS is probably second-best.

I have another response to this...what would be shorter, using some
automated 'how many items are on the left' discovery mechanism, or just
putting in the ':4'?

Certainly some symbol could be reused for something like...
a,b,c = L[:%]  #first part
a,b,c = L[%:]  #last part, automatically negating the value

But is something like the follwing even desireable?
a,b,c = L[i:%:j] #automatically calculate the ending index
a,b,c = L[%:i:j] #automatically calculate the start index

Regardless, I'm not sure I particularly like any symbol that could be
placed in either set of slices.  If it is not some single-character
symbol, then it is actually shorter to just count them.


> > Is it worth a keyword, or would a sys.getframe()/bytecode hack be
> > sufficient? In the latter case, I'm sure you could come up with such a
> > mechanism, and when done, maybe you want to offer it up as a recipe in
> > the cookbook *wink*.
> 
> Two recipes in the 2nd ed of the CB can be combined to that effect
> (well, nearly; c becomes an _iterator_ over 'all the rest'), one by
> Brett Cannon and one by Sami Hangaslammi.  Not nearly as neat and clean
> as if the language did it, of course.

What is to stop the recipes from wrapping that final iterator with a
list() call?


> > > Another case where a specific number of items is requested, which is not
> > > (syntactically speaking) a multiple assignment, is assignment to an
> > > _extended_ slice of, e.g., a list (only; assignment to a slice with a
> > > stride of 1 is happy with getting whatever number of items are coming).
> > > I don't particularly LIKE writing:
> > >     L[x:y:z] = len(L[x:y:z]) * [foo]
> > 
> > I much prefer...
> > 
> > for i in xrange(x, y, z):
> >     L[i] = foo
> 
> Not the same semantics, in the general case.  For example:
> 
>    L[1:-1:2] = ...

And I would just use...

for i in xrange(1, len(L)-1, 2):
    L[i] = ...

As in anything, if there is more than one way to do something, at least
a bit of translation is required.


> rebinds (len(L)/2)-1 items; your version rebinds no items, since
> xrange(1, -1, 2) is empty.  To simulate the effect that assigning to an
> extended slice has, you have to take a very different tack:
> 
> for i in slice(x, y, z).indices(len(L)):
>     L[i] = foo
> 
> and that's still quite a bit less terse and elegant, as is usually the
> case for fussy index-based looping whenever it's decently avoidable.

You know, terse != elegant.  While extended slice assignments are terse,
I would not consider them elegant.  Elegant is quicksort, the
Floyd-Warshall algorithm for APSP, Baruvka's MST algorithm, etc.  Being
able to say "from here to here with this stride", that's a language
convenience, and its use is on par with using fcn(*args, **kwargs).


Have I used it?  Sure, a few times.  My most memorable experience is
using a similar functionality in C with MPI.  Unbelievably useful for
chopping up data for distribution and reintegration.  Was it elegant, I
wouldn't ever make such a claim, it was a library feature, and extended
slice assignments in Python are a language feature.  A useful language
feature for a reasonably sized subset of the Python community certainly,
but elegant, not so much.


Using an imperative programming style with Python (using indices to
index a sequence), I thought, was to be encouraged; why else would
xrange and range be offered?  Oh, I know, because people use 'fussy
index-based looping' in C/C++, Java, pascal...and don't want to change
the way they develop.  Or maybe because not every RHS is a sequence, and
sequence indexing is the more general case which works for basically
everything (with minimal translation).


> > But then again, I don't much like extended list slicing (I generally
> > only use the L[:y], L[x:] and L[x:y]  versions).
> 
> It may be that in your specific line of work there is no opportunity or
> usefulness for the stride argument.  Statistically, however, it's
> somewhat more likely that you're not taking advantage of the
> opportunities because, given your dislike, you don't even notice them --
> as opposed to the opportunities not existing at all, or you noticing
> them, evaluating them against the lower-level index-based-looping
> alternatives, and selecting the latter.  If you think that extended
> slices are sort of equivalent to xrange, as above shown, for example,
> it's not surprising that you're missing their actual use cases.

It is the case that I have rarely needed to replace non-contiguous
sections of lists.  It has been a few years since I used MPI and the
associated libraries.  Recently in those cases that I have found such a
need, I find using xrange to be far more readable. It's an opinion thing,
and we seem to differ in the case of slice assignments (and certainly a
few other things I am aware of). How about we agree to disagree?

I have also found little use of them in the portions of the standard
library that I peruse on occasion, which in my opinion, defines what it
means to be Pythonic (though obviously many extended slice usages are
application-specific).


 - Josiah



From charlotte at donotspam.invalid  Mon Nov  8 07:00:11 2004
From: charlotte at donotspam.invalid (Charlotte)
Date: 08 Nov 2004 12:00:11 GMT
Subject: cherrypy/cheetah vs twisted/nevow
References: <slrncoc0tr.1tc7.charlotte@xs2.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.5766.1099319968.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418818ca$0$19452$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5867.1099489510.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<69cbbef2.0411050857.6dfe11bd@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6014.1099765795.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<69cbbef2.0411070346.6c6c0eaf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrncounub.309c.charlotte@xs3.xs4all.nl>

has wrote:
>  With HTMLTemplate I finally got it right. Whereas most templating
>  systems provide direct support for both presentation logic and markup,
>  HTMLTemplate implements support for the markup side only and leaves
>  the host language to take care of all logic. This gives a system that
>  is both extremely simple (turning markup into a simple object model is
>  trivial) and incredibly powerful (as powerful as the host language, in
>  fact, since that's what the presentation logic is written in).

Thanks for your explanation. I took a look at your website, and
HTMLTemplate seems to be very nice indeed. I wonder why I had not
discovered this before.

>  <...> I find this sort of
>  thing terribly depressing, because it conditions people into thinking
>  complex solutions to complex problems are actually something to aspire
>  to, rather than avoid as much as possible. 

I completely agree. 

>  Nevow implements six or seven extremely interesting ideas. I think its
>  biggest problem is it does this as one huge package rather than six or
>  seven independent modules, which makes it a bit of a bear to get on
>  top of and also cuts down on reusability which is a shame.

And I agree again.

>  I'd suggest looking at HTMLTemplate. It's simpler than Nevow.Renderer
>  and faster than PyMeld, mature, has no significant dependencies and is
>  small enough to pull apart and grok (and hack) quite easily:

>  http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/htmltemplate.html

Well, you know how to sell your product :)

Thanks.
Charlotte.


From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Fri Nov 12 07:53:56 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:53:56 +0100
Subject: Plone and mod_python
In-Reply-To: <7l1ld.13845$3_.7287@ns2.gip.net>
References: <7l1ld.13845$3_.7287@ns2.gip.net>
Message-ID: <4194b228$0$27717$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Tony Ha wrote:
> Hello
> 
> Can some one explain what are the differences between "plone" and "Apache +
> mod_python"?

> From plone.org. It says "Plone is powerful and flexible. It is ideal as an
> intranet
> and extranet server" does this mean if I use "plone" I do not need to
> install
> "Apache + mod_python"? Thanks in advance!


Plone is a 'portal' type content management system build over Zope and 
the CMF. Which means that you need at least Zope to run Plone. Now you 
can either choose to run Zope as a standalone web server, or 'hide' it 
behind a running Apache server.

In both cases, you won't need mod_python.

HTH
Bruno



From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Sat Nov  6 23:54:52 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 23:54:52 -0500
Subject: Python OS
In-Reply-To: <cmk7r1$4d0$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
References: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmin1n$500$02$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6003.1099752590.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmiorc$j4b$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6021.1099783808.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmk7r1$4d0$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <418DAA9C.1030702@bellsouth.net>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Richard Blackwood wrote:
>
>>
>>>> P.S.  If one can program interrupt routines in C, they can do the same
>>>> in Python.
>>>
>>>
>>> Show me how you set the interrupt jumptables to your routines in 
>>> python and
>>> how you write time-critical code which has to be executed in a few 
>>> hundred
>>> cpu-cycles. And how good that works together with the GIL.
>>>
>> Here is my logic:  If one can do X in C and Python is C-aware (in 
>> other words Python can be exposed to C) then Python can do X via such 
>> exposure.
>
>
> Unfortunately the logic is flawed, even in the case that you
> quoted above!

Yes and no.  See below.

>
> You _cannot_ use Python for a time-critical interrupt, even
> when you allow for pure C or assembly code as the bridge
> (since Python _cannot_ be used natively for interrupts, of
> course), because -- as noted above! -- the interrupt must
> execute in a few hundred CPU cycles.

I'm really not trying to contradict nor stir things up.  But the OP 
wanted to know if it were possible to prototype an OS and in a 
follow-up, referred to a virtual OS.  Maybe I mis-read the OP, but it 
seems that he is not concerned with creating a _real_ OS (one that talks 
directly to the machine), it seems that he is concerned with building 
all the components that make up an OS for the purpose of....well.....he 
didn't really state that.....or maybe I missed it.

So, asking in total ignorance, and deferring to someone with obviously 
more experience that I have (like you, Peter), would it be possible to 
create an OS-like application that runs in a Python interpreter that 
does OS-like things (i.e. scheduler, interrupt handling, etc.) and talks 
to a hardware-like interface?  If we're talking about a virtual OS, 
(again, I'm asking in ignorance) would anything really be totally time 
critical?  Especially if the point were learning how an OS works?

>
> Given that the cost of invoking the Python interpreter on
> a bytecode-interrupt routine would be several orders of
> magnitude higher, I don't understand why you think it
> is possible for it to be as fast.

I totally agree with you...sort of.  I totally agree with your technical 
assessment.  However, I'm reading the OP a different way.  If he did 
mean a virtual OS and if time isn't critical, and he was thinking, 
"well, I'm getting shot down for proposing to do this in Python, so 
maybe it isn't possible in Python, but it is possible in C and since I 
can call C from Python, then I should be able to do it", then maybe he 
has a point.  Or, maybe I'm just totally misreading the OP.  So, if he's 
saying that he can just call the C code from python and it'd be just as 
fast doing interrupt handling that way, then I agree with you.  But if 
he's talking about just the functionality and not the time, is that 
possible?

>
> Of course, if you will allow both assembly/C code here and
> there as a bridge, *and* you are willing to accept an operating
> system that is arbitrarily slower at certain time-critical
> operations (such as responding to mouse activities) than we
> are used to now, then certainly Python can be used for such things...
>
OK - so here's my answer.  It should be possible, but it will be slower, 
which seems to be acceptable for what he meant when mentioning 
prototyping and a virtual OS.  But here's another question.  Would it be 
possible, if I've interpreted him correctly, to write the whole thing in 
Python without directly calling C code or assembly?  Even if it were 
unbearably slow and unfit for use for anything other than, say, a 
learning experience?  Kind of like a combustion engine that has part of 
it replaced with transparent plastic - you dare not try to run it, but 
you can manually move the pistons, etc.  It's only good for education.

> -Peter

Jeremy



From onurb at xiludom.gro  Tue Nov  2 18:39:59 2004
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 00:39:59 +0100
Subject: cherrypy/cheetah vs twisted/nevow
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5766.1099319968.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <slrncoc0tr.1tc7.charlotte@xs2.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.5766.1099319968.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418818ca$0$19452$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Carlos Ribeiro a ?crit :
(snip)
> I'm yet to study nevow, but I'm getting more and more interested. I
> have my own approach to separation; I use to think about a third
> entity, "structure", as being independent from code & ui. The
> structure is the common part; it's the "glue" between ui and code; and
> it's the first part to be designed. 

Err... I may have missed something obvious, but doesn't this smells like 
a good old MVC ?-)


From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Thu Nov 11 16:04:55 2004
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe Cavalaria)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:04:55 +0100
Subject: Tkinter and WCK (was Re: How come wxPython isn't in the
	standard library?)
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2vgfe5F2m8raqU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4193d3f9$0$16439$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Jon Perez wrote:

>> Guess, that answers my question, but isn't "Tkinter was there first" a
>> very bad answer? :) It is kinda ugly too, so I wonder why it can't be
>> replaced?
> 
> Tkinter is a lot less ugly today than it used to be because
> Tk has adopted a more native look (i'm talking about windows
> here, dunno about other platforms).

Motif on Unix ! Ugliest of all ( well, maybe there is worse )



From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Nov 19 11:42:21 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 08:42:21 -0800
Subject: Python with Apache 2.0
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E324524C@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Chang LI wrote:
> Does python support threads safely along with Apache 2.0 in 
> web applications.

The only problem I found using Apache2 (on Windows 2k) was that Apache
uses a thread pool, so if you add attributes to a thread, they won't be
freed when the request ends. For example,
"threading.currentThread().data = 5"; you might encounter that same
thread again later, and it will already have .data == 5 at the beginning
of your request handler. As long as you're not adding attributes to
thread objects, or using a mapping of thread id's, you should be OK.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Fri Nov 26 13:41:21 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 19:41:21 +0100
Subject: Number of colors in an image
In-Reply-To: <1075192482.20041126193704@geochemsource.com>
References: <1075192482.20041126193704@geochemsource.com>
Message-ID: <568241297.20041126194121@geochemsource.com>

>   Hello,

> How can I determine the number of colors used in an image? I tried to
> search on Google but I could figure out. I read the PIL handbook but I

read: could NOT figure out

> do not see how to do it. Can anyone help?




From theller at python.net  Fri Nov 19 15:57:04 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:57:04 +0100
Subject: Events
References: <MPG.1c08708d5ec6746c989688@news-server>
Message-ID: <7joh7e1r.fsf@python.net>

factory <t at t.com> writes:

>   Anyone want to comment on what they think of this following bit of a 
> simple event framework?

You should definitely look into the dispatcher module:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/87056

The comments indicate that an enhanced version is maintained on SF.

Thomas


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 13:14:34 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:14:34 -0500
Subject: don't NaN & infinities hide FP errors
In-Reply-To: <419B5965.1010801@geochemsource.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0411170130.31d247@posting.google.com>
	<cnf963$ioc$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<1f7befae041117054954a8e966@mail.gmail.com>
	<419B5965.1010801@geochemsource.com>
Message-ID: <1f7befae0411171014339b4171@mail.gmail.com>

[Gandalf]
> I still feel that it would be possible to use some assembly code and
> achieve the same behaviour on all platforms.
> It is really not difficult to calculate log on a 387. It can be more
> difficult on a RISC but not impossible.
> Why the implementation stuck on the C standards? Okay, maybe it is
> not possible or too difficult to use asm code on some platforms. But at
> least Python should try to do the same thing when it is possible. It
> could be an 'option' to compile low level code for the most popular
> operating systems. What do you think?

I think you're not burdened by actual experience writing
production-quality math libraries <0.3 wink>.  I've done that for a
living at times, and writing a production-quality math library, even
at the shallow level C89 provides, and even for a single platform, is
a whale of a lot of work.  OTOH, writing low-quality math libraries is
easy.

Python defers to C here because platform C vendors are generally in a much
better position to provide production-quality platform-specific math
libraries than the Python project will ever be.

BTW, "same behavior on all platforms" is a non-goal for me when it
comes to floating point.  There's an enormous range of
speed-vs-accuracy tradeoffs that can be made here, and legitimately
so.  By not trying to force a specific choice here on Python's users,
a Python user that *really* cares about this can get the tradeoff they
like by obtaining (probably buying) and installing a libm replacement
for their platform C libm.  Python will automatically use that too
then.


From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Nov 14 03:17:10 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (Simon John)
Date: 14 Nov 2004 00:17:10 -0800
Subject: .pyc files...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6343.1100420001.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <E1CTDp7-00050j-00@galvatron.kickingdragon.com>
	<mailman.6343.1100420001.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Stephen Waterbury wrote:

> > OK, stupid question, but it's been bothering me for ages.. J
> >
> > I love Python to bits, but .pyc files always litter my source tree,
and
> > they've always bothered me. ...

> One solution (on unices, at least):
>
> alias cleanpy="find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm {} ';'"
or with backticks:  rm -rf `find . -name '*.pyc'`



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Nov 16 12:25:59 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:25:59 -0800
Subject: determining the number of output arguments
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
References: <mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <20041116085933.F96D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:43:55 -0800, Josiah Carlson wrote:
> > Guido hasn't updated his stance, so don't hold your breath.
> 
> I'm not in favor of it either. I just think that *if* it were going in, it
> shouldn't be a "keyword".
> 
> I think variable size tuple returns are a code smell. Now that I think of
> it, *tuple* returns are a code smell. (Remember, "code smells" are strong
> hints of badness, not proof.) Of the easily thousands of functions in
> Python I've written, less than 10 have returned a tuple that was expected
> to be unpacked. 

I agree with you on the one hand (I also think that variable lengthed
tuple returns are smelly), and have generally returned tuples of the
same length whenever possible.  However, I can't agree with you on
general tuple returns. Why? For starters, dict.[iter]items(),
struct.unpack() and various client socket libraries in the standard
library that return both status codes and status messages/data on
command completion (smtplib, nntplib, imaplib).


> Generally, returning a tuple is either a sign that your return value
> should be wrapped up in a class, or the function is doing too much. One of
> the instances I do have is a tree iterator that on every "next()" returns
> a depth *and* the current node, because the code to track the depth based
> on the results of running the iterator is better kept in the iterator than
> in the many users of that iterator. But I don't like it; I'd rather make
> it a property of the iterator itself or something, but there isn't a
> code-smell-free way to do that, either, as the iterator is properly a
> method of a certain class, and trying to pull it out into its own class
> would entail lots of ugly accessing the inner details of another class. 

The real question is whether /every/ return of more than one item
deserves to have its own non-tuple instance, and whether one really
wants the called function to define names for attributes on that
returned instance. Me, I'm leaning towards no.  Two, three or even
four-tuple returns, to me, seem reasonable, and in the case of struct,
whatever suits the program/programmer.  Anything beyond that should
probably be a class, but I don't think that the Python language should
artificially restrict itself when common sense would keep most people
from:
a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j,k,l,m,n,o,p,q,r,s,t,u,v,w,x,y,z = range(26)

...or at least I would hope.

 - Josiah



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  4 15:21:57 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 21:21:57 +0100
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmp6xu.zmiw6gs3250sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5890.1099529745.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmpyz8.11h86a71kjmdttN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5916.1099587353.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdntd$788$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5920.1099589545.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gmqqa3.r7hg5g17qatxkN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:

> Does this make my concern any clearer?  What I'm asking for is an example
> like yours above that not only shows that you can treat, say, the bits of
> a float as an integer, but also shows why this would be useful.

Given a float, extract the (so-called) "mantissa" (what a misnomer!) and
exponent.  Can you see the usefulness of _that_?  Can you see that
treating the bits that compose the float as an int and using masking and
shifting is the obvious way to perform this task?

Say I need to compute some unary float function, such as 'sin', with
high speed and precision.  One reasonable approach: normalize the float
input to a standard range (say 0 to pi/4, remembering what kind of sign
inversions &c you need to perform at result time); get "mantissa" (pah!)
and exponent and use the latter, partly to select the right lookup table
and partly to shift the mantissa appropriately to make it an index into
said result table, while keeping track of the bits that shifted out;
read out the result base and the multiplier for interpolation, multiply
the latter by the bits that shifted out and add the result to the result
base; perform sign or other symmetry inversions as previously recorded.

There -- you have the function computer to whatever precision is
requested, typically an ULP.  Depending on your CPU, you may have HW
that obviates the need for some or all of these manipulations - but you
won't have it for all transcendentals, and what you don't have in HW
you'll need to do in SW -- and being able to get at the bits of the
floating point representation is often the best approach for that task.

Although the details were more antiquated, that was elementary stuff
taught in electronic engineers' first-year computing courses back in the
'70s, just in case we ever needed to code our own transcendentals (in
Fortran, of course -- you weren't expected to master machine code unless
you took computing electives in 3rd and later years, much less exoterica
such as Pascal, Lisp or APL).  Is it considered advanced or specialized
these days?!


Alex


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Tue Nov 30 15:15:11 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:15:11 -0800
Subject: weird behaviour of "0 in [] is False"
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.30.12.57.59.582543@nospam.logilab.fr>
References: <pan.2004.11.30.12.57.59.582543@nospam.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <41ace762@nntp0.pdx.net>

Sylvain Thenault wrote:
> Hi there !
> 
> Can someone explain me the following behaviour ?
> 
> 
>>>>l = []
>>>>0 in (l is False)
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: iterable argument required
> 
>>>>(0 in l) is False
> 
> True
> 
>>>>0 in l is False
> 
> False
> 
> 
> This is really obscur to me...
> 
A suggestion:
When discussing things on the newsgroup (and in your code), avoid
symbols like "l" and "O" -- they look too much like numbers.  Picking
an actual name is best (but depends on your application context).
Second best are names like: "lst", "obj", ...: often, however, such
names are necessary when discussing abstract code properties.

-Scott


From jerry at jerrysievers.com  Mon Nov 29 15:49:30 2004
From: jerry at jerrysievers.com (Jerry Sievers)
Date: 29 Nov 2004 15:49:30 -0500
Subject: slicing, mapping types, ellipsis etc.
Message-ID: <m34qj8e5yd.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>

Fellow Pythonists;

I am totally puzzled on the use of slicing on mapping types and
especially unsure on use of the Ellipsis... and slicing syntax that
has two or more groups seperated by comma.

I am referring to (from the manual);

     Slice objects
                    Slice objects are used to represent slices when extended
          slice syntax is used. This is a slice using two colons, or multiple
          slices or ellipses separated by commas, e.g., a[i:j:step], a[i:j,
          k:l], or a[..., i:j]. They are also created by the built-in slice()
          function.

A quick example on how this is used and/or pointer to more reading is
greatly appreciated.

Thanks


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Sievers   305 854-3001 (home)     WWW ECommerce Consultant
                305 321-1144 (mobile	http://www.JerrySievers.com/


From tolot at jupiter.solar-empire.de  Mon Nov  8 20:12:53 2004
From: tolot at jupiter.solar-empire.de (Marc Christiansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 02:12:53 +0100
Subject: HTML to Text renderer
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E324510E@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
	<mailman.5856.1099442198.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <l5i562-hih.ln1@halut.solar-empire.de>

Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> Robert Brewer wrote:
>> To clarify: you don't want the HTML tags merely stripped; you want to
>> replace e.g. br with a line break and p with, say, two line breaks?
> 
> Right.  And word wrapping too.  Some other tags would also be 
> interesting: <blockquote>, <pre>, <hr>, <table>, &nbsp;, and something 
> to control alignment (e.g., <p align="">).

Have a look at htmllib.HTMLParser and formatter in the standard Python
lib (but also look at the source of htmllib). Maybe they provide what
you need.

HTH
  Marc


From rolandREMOVE_THIS at numeca.be  Mon Nov 29 07:56:08 2004
From: rolandREMOVE_THIS at numeca.be (Roland Van Praag)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:56:08 +0100
Subject: Load module on IRIX 6
Message-ID: <0rCdnXWobOIcgTbcRVnyjw@scarlet.biz>

Dear All,

I try to prepare a new module named <igg> using python 1.5 on IRIX6. The
shared library created is named igg.so and contains the initializarion
routine initigg. I call in this routine Py_InitModule giving as first
argument "igg". Whe I try to import this module, I always have the message :
SystemError: _PyImport_FixupExtension: module igg not loaded. The same
example is running well on windows and DEC alpha but I never succeed on
Silicon workstation. I try with python 1.5 and 2.3.
Thanks for your help
Roland






From arkham at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 09:29:10 2004
From: arkham at gmail.com (Rob Snyder)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:29:10 GMT
Subject: teaching OO
References: <slrncq8inq.9gv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <WU0pd.19552$ld2.4789270@twister.nyc.rr.com>

Gabriel Zachmann wrote:

> This post is not strictly Python-specific, still
> I would like to learn other university teachers' opinion.
> 
> Currently, I'm teaching "introduction to OO programming" at the undergrad
> level. My syllabus this semester consists of a bit of Python (as an
> example of a scripting language) and C++ (as an example of a compiled
> language). With C++, I go all the way up to meta-programming.
> 
> My question now is: do you think I should switch over to Python completely
> (next time), and dump all the interesting issues involved in C++'s virtual
> classes, overloading, and templates? (In Python, all of that would just
> disappear ... ;-) )
> 
> (The opinion of the people on this NG might well be a little bit biased
> towards Python, but that's ok ;-).)
> 
> Interested in all kinds of thoughts.
> 
> Best regards,
> Gabriel.
> 

Gabriel -

I was in a similar position, and decided to make the change over to Python
completely. Key for me was that I knew these same students, at some point
in time, would *also* being taking several courses that involved C++. In
other words, they didn't need this course to cover C++, they only needed it
to get introduced to OO programming, and by switching to Python, I gave
them an environment to learn that they could really get their heads around.

If the students wouldn't be getting immersed in C++ otherwise, I don't think
I would have made the switch, and may have continued not using any Python
at all.

Python, IMHO, is an excellent teaching language. In my observations, by
switching to Python for the OO concepts class, I'd say we easily covered
50% more material in the same amount of time. 

As for the interesting C++ issues, those same students were able to pick
those concepts up quickly in their later classes. "Overloading", for
example, was a pretty simple concept to grasp for people who had previously
spent a whole semester heads down learning OO. 

Rob


From Norbert.Klamann at klamann-software.de  Tue Nov 16 04:10:33 2004
From: Norbert.Klamann at klamann-software.de (Norbert)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 01:10:33 -0800
Subject: How to pass a parameter
References: <81a41dd.0411151048.78af4fd3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1100596233.345798.61700@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Lad wrote:
> I have a sript that downloads a webpage. According to the picture  on

> this webpage I need to pass a parameter to this , running script a
few
> lines later.
> How can I do that?
> Thanks for help
> Lad

Depends on the environment you use and the script itself. Assuming
windows it could go like this:

[path_to_python]\python yourscript.py param1 param2

maybe the script takes named parameters, then it looks like this :

[path_to_python]\python yourscript.py param1=value1 param2=value2

the path_to_python is not required if python is on your path.

'python' is not required in the statemenst if your system is configured
to execute .py files with python anyway.

Hope that helps, if it doesn't you should supply details about your
system.

Norbert



From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Tue Nov  9 08:39:26 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 08:39:26 -0500
Subject: should i start looking for a new list?
In-Reply-To: <20041109101248.F1B661C001B2@mwinf0101.wanadoo.fr>
References: <20041109101248.F1B661C001B2@mwinf0101.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <4190C88E.1070803@bellsouth.net>

Jelle Feringa // EZCT / Paris wrote:

> I've been posting some of my most burning (newbie) questions to this 
> list, and most of them have been unanswered.
>
> Should I be posting these questions at a different list, since their 
> technical level is quite low? Am I looking for answers in the right place?
>
>  
>
I tried to backtrack and see your emails for the past few days and have 
only come up with 2 (for the month of November).  I'm not questioning 
that you posted, I just wanted to see the content and let you know if I 
thought they were appropriate for this group.  I'll give you my opinion 
on the appropriateness of your postings, but I definitely don't claim to 
speak for the majority of the group.

The one dated 11/1/2004 with subject "newbie troubles: os.popen 
confusion" should have been fine to post here.  (BTW - I would use 
os.path.join() rather than the "+" operator for combining directory paths.)

The one dated 11/8/2004 with subject "newbie question | shell scripting" 
again should be fine.  Looks like you got some help there.

If you have any still unanswered questions, you could re-post them, with 
notes of what you've tried since the original posting and failed at and 
what specific problems you're (still) having.  And, not that you're 
guilty of violating it, but I've got to insert the ubiquitous link to 
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html, else I may take some 
crap for leaving that out.


HTH,

Jeremy Jones
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From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Nov 28 16:06:44 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 15:06:44 -0600
Subject: Python's annoyance.
In-Reply-To: <iBcpd.50687$Es2.1096718@twister2.libero.it>
References: <aa1af1ad.0411241047.4d5da2fd@posting.google.com>
	<iBcpd.50687$Es2.1096718@twister2.libero.it>
Message-ID: <41AA3DE4.1070809@colorstudy.com>

Giovanni Bajo wrote:
> caroundw5h wrote:
> 
> 
>>Serioulsy, one of python's main selling points is its elegant syntax,
>>non perl like, non C like. If it can't live up to it. I guess i might
>>as well use perl or ruby or server side javascript.
>>how annoying.
> 
> 
> In fact, I find the decorator syntax awful. But I know this was already
> discussed to a large extent, so there must be a very good reason to use @.
> Which I totally miss, but hey.

I was just recently talking to someone about PHP, and he said that 
everyone agreed that PHP 5 needed namespaces, but no one could agree on 
the syntax.  So they left it out.  Which is bad, because PHP *really* 
needed this feature, but they simply lacked the decision process which 
could make it happen.

So it's good that we have a decision process (benevolent dictator) which 
can actually move on in the face of wide disagreement on smaller points. 
  (Other people think we don't need the decorator syntax at all, but 
that's another discussion; even there, we are again relying on Guido's 
intuition on the matter)

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  / http://blog.ianbicking.org


From maluke at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 08:37:07 2004
From: maluke at gmail.com (Sergey Schetinin)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 05:37:07 -0800
Subject: bsddb built for concurrent access (rh9)
Message-ID: <1100698627.853881.29550@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hello people, I've spent many hours trying to fix it by myself, but w/
no success. I have a program, that uses bsddb. It needs to access the
DB from multiple processes, so it uses it in a concurrent mode. That
works fine on windows. Yet, when I've tried it on my server running
RedHat9 it gives me this:

BaseIndex.env.open(path, envflags | db.DB_CREATE)
bsddb._db.DBInvalidArgError: (22, 'Invalid argument -- Berkeley DB
library configured to support only DB_PRIVATE environments')

I figured it's because of bsddb/db4 is built w/o concurrent access
capabilities to avoid some bugs, cause many old systems don't have
working crossprocess mutexes. So basically I need a different build - i
haven't found one, also I've tried to make one myself, but compilation
chokes right away. Giving a ton of syntax errors (this happens w/
python src distrib as well as w/ pybsddb).

Please, tell me what am I missing or better yet give me a lead as to
where to find a properly built bsddb.

Thank you!



From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Fri Nov 19 16:33:47 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:33:47 +0100
Subject: Question about thread
In-Reply-To: <cnlnj3$vbq$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <1100875373.911763@eng-ser6>
	<306ic5F2svtsdU1@uni-berlin.de>	<1100879122.755150@eng-ser4>
	<mailman.6607.1100881214.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cnlmt0$jea$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<cnlnj3$vbq$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cnlp2u$sj3$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

>>Even after printing "finished creating threads" all spawned threads
>>continue its execution up to final "thread nnnn is being destroyed", so
>>I think there's no need to take any special action (unless it's Python
>>on iSeries, buy this is another story) to wait for completion.
> 
> The OP used the module "thread", while you used "threading" and didn't set
> setDaemon(False). Then python waits until all threads are finished.

Well... I was bit too fast in replying. ;)

> From the thread module docs:
> 
> When the main thread exits, it is system defined whether the other threads
> survive. On SGI IRIX using the native thread implementation, they survive.
> On most other systems, they are killed without executing try ... finally
> clauses or executing object destructors.   

So it looks that using threading should be preferred over using thread, 
as presented example works identically on Windows and on linux (it 
doesn't work on AS/400, though...).

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/ | http://www.zgodowie.org/


From mauriceling at acm.org  Tue Nov  9 05:58:38 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice Ling)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 21:58:38 +1100
Subject: possible to pass python objects into java without jython?
Message-ID: <4190A2DE.6040505@acm.org>

Hi,

I have read that this had been asked before but there's no satisfactory 
replies then.

I have a module (pA) written in python, which originally is called by 
another python module (pB), and passes a python object (pO) to pB. Now I 
require pA to be called in a java class (jC) and pass pO into jC. As pA 
uses non-python modules, I am not able to use Jython on this.

Are there any way out in this?

Thanks in advance.

Maurice
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From jzheng at jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Nov 12 15:19:08 2004
From: jzheng at jpl.nasa.gov (Jason Zheng)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:19:08 -0800
Subject: popen help
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6315.1100290401.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6315.1100290401.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cn35rs$55m$1@nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov>

exarkun at intarweb.us wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:29:46 -0800, Jason Zheng <jzheng at jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
> 
>>I'm trying to open a subshell to run some csh commands, and I want to 
>>connect the stdout of the subshell to the main stdout:
>>
>>sub = Popen4('csh -f')
>>sub.tochild.write('source source.me\n')
>>sub.tochild.write('runthis\n')
>>sub.tochild.close()
>>
>>for x in sub.fromchild.readlines():
>>   print x
>>
> 
> 
>>>>import os, time
>>>>for x in iter(os.popen('for x in `seq 3`; do echo $x; sleep 1; done').readline, ''):
> 
> ...     print time.time(), x,
> ... 
> 1100290304.55 1
> 1100290305.56 2
> 1100290306.56 3
> 
>   The difference is that readline() returns one line whereas readlines() returns all of the lines.  Since you cannot know what all the lines are until you have read all of the data, it cannot return until the child process exits.
> 
>   Jp
Jp,

I doubt that's gonna resolve the problem I have tho. Suppose I send one 
command which doesn't not have the 'sleep' but prints some output line 
periodically, wouldn't I have to wait till the end of the execution to 
see any output?

Can I just connect sys.stdout to the stdout of the subshell?

jz


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov  1 02:20:51 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 07:20:51 GMT
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
References: <mailman.5742.1099278705.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4185e098.1316872382@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 03:11:42 GMT, exarkun at divmod.com wrote:

>On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:00:07 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>> [snip]
>> 
>> BTW, will anything that works in a list comprehension work in a generator expression
>> (assuming one does not depend on the generator expression having leftover outside
>> side effect bindings like the LC version)?
>> 
>
>  Nope.  For example, I don't think the code in this thread will work if converted to a generator expression.  A simplified example:
>
>    >>> x = 0 
>    >>> list(x for x in iter(lambda: x + 1, 4))
>    ( runs forever, so C-c )
>    Traceback (most recent call last):
>      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>      File "<stdin>", line 1, in <generator expression>
>    KeyboardInterrupt
>    >>> [x for x in iter(lambda: x + 1, 4)]
>    [1, 2, 3]
>    >>> 
>
>  `x' in the lambda in the list comprehension resolves to a different name than `x' in the generator comprehension.
>
I had a sneaky suspicion that it _could_ be so, hoping not. But your example doesn't play fair
because you don't give x an initial condition inside the scope of the expression. E.g.,

 >>> [x for x in [0] for x in iter(lambda:x+1, 4)]
 [1, 2, 3]
 >>> list(x for x in [0] for x in iter(lambda:x+1, 4))
   File "<stdin>", line 1
     list(x for x in [0] for x in iter(lambda:x+1, 4))
              ^
 SyntaxError: invalid syntax

Well, I don't have 2.4 yet, but what does it do?
If the generator expression scope causes a closure access from lambda it should be ok, IWT.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Mon Nov  1 18:28:08 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 15:28:08 -0800
Subject: Why is heapify linear?
Message-ID: <4186cb77$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

I am sorry, but in the Python 2.4 description of "heapify", I find the
description of "Transform list x into a heap, in-place, in linear time,"
unbelievable.  I understand the hand-wave that makes dictionary building
linear (though I have a hard time with even that).  Could somebody tell
me what twist of logic makes "heapify" linear, except in the sense that
linear is coming to mean "very fast?"

Skeptically,
-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From foo at bar.com  Sat Nov  6 00:12:04 2004
From: foo at bar.com (Steve Menard)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 00:12:04 -0500
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <x7u0s3r9gz.fsf@guru.mired.org>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<87d5ysbkq9.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<4b39d922.0411051555.24f31663@posting.google.com>
	<x7u0s3r9gz.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <M2Zid.43936$v03.954301@wagner.videotron.net>

Mike Meyer wrote:
> finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse) writes:
> 
> 
>>Yes, wxPython is typically quicker than swing.  It's not fair to use
>>this in a generic Python-vs-Java speed shootout, though, since
>>wxPython is just a wrapper around wxWidgets' C++ code; you're really
>>comparing C++ vs. Java here.
> 
> 
> Is it unfair to compare Python dictionaries to Java HashTables because
> Python is using hand-tuned C where Java is using Java? I'd say that's
> a perfectly fair comparison. If that's fair, what's unfair about
> comparing graphics toolkits that happen to be written in C rather than
> Python (is there a graphics toolkit written in Python?).
> 
> That's *how* interpreted languages manage to compete with compiled
> languages - they perform the common operations in hand-tuned compiled
> code. That people tend to write Java libraries in Java rather than C
> just means they're going to get slower libraries.
> 
> 
>>AFAIK the major two reasons for Python's relative slowness are that
>>it's interpreted and dynamically typed.
> 
> 
> Java is interpreted just like Python is. The only difference is that
> Java splits the compiler and VM implementation into two different
> binaries.
> 
>         <mike

Actually java has not been interpreted for quite a few years. Java today 
is compiled to native code at runtime (JIT), exactly like what Psyco 
tries to do for Python. This means the only things that (today) makes a 
java program slower than a C program are Java's added safety features ( 
Bounds-checking on arrays and garbage collection to name but two).

Java's speed and Python's speed are not absolute values. Java IS faster 
than python when it comes to CPU-intensive operations. IF you given 
problem is heavily IO-bound, then python will be just as fast as Java. 
Also, if you are writing a GUI application, your program will spend most 
of its time waiting for user-input and not much difference will be 
noticed. Python may even win out in that case since it's GUI are 
typically platform-tuned C/C++ libraries wrapped in Python.


Steve


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Nov 18 18:27:34 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 18:27:34 -0500
Subject: SQL Server stored prcedures with output parameters
References: <HHWmd.10924$nj.1324@lakeread01> <cnif70$an1$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <cnjb56$9b9$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <cnif70$an1$1 at panix1.panix.com>, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
>
>Keep in mind that it's been several years since I used Python with SQL
>Server and about all I remember is that we used stored procedures
>heavily with no problems.  I have no clue whether we tried using stored
>procedures with output parameters, but I wonder why you can't just use a
>SELECT to call the stored procedure and return the values.  Or at least
>right another stored proc that does something roughly similar.

s/right/write/, but you knew that.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Tue Nov  2 15:19:12 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 15:19:12 -0500
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
In-Reply-To: <4187b7a1$0$2383$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
	<du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<4187b7a1$0$2383$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <VIGdneORwdRddhrcRVn-sg@giganews.com>

Peter Hickman wrote:


> The real trick is going to be getting the existing module authors to 

The real trick is that the need for CPyAN is not an acute one.
A whole lot of tasks can be done just with the standard library.
This makes CPAN like functionality useful but not essential.
I can't think of a single instance where I would have had to
hunt down package dependencies whereas when I was using perl
that was a very significant problem where automated
installations really saved a lot of time.

Programming environments evolve like real biological systems.
They develop useful features in response to much needed
functionality and not vice versa.

Istvan.


From caleb1 at telkomsa.net  Thu Nov 25 21:12:18 2004
From: caleb1 at telkomsa.net (Caleb Hattingh)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 21:12:18 -0500
Subject: dictionary initialization
References: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <opsh1u2sow1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>

Hmm :)

"b[1]" looks like a List (but you created a Dict)
"b['1'] looks more like a Dict (but this is not what you used).

If lists are your thing:

>>>  a = []
>>> a.append(1)
>>> a
[1]
>>> a[0] += 1
>>> a
[2]

If dicts are your thing:

>>> b = {}
>>> b['1'] = 1
>>> b
{'1': 1}
>>> b['1'] += 1
>>> b
{'1': 2}

Lists are ordered, Dicts are not.
Dict entries accessed with 'string' keys, List entries accessed with a  
position integer.

Which feature specifically do you want justification for?

thx
Caleb





> With Python, I got
>     >>> b={}
>     >>> b[1] = b[1] +1
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>     KeyError: 1
>
> That is, I have to initialize b[1] explicitly in the first place.
>
> Personally, I think
>
>     a[i]++
>
> in awk is much more elegant than
>
>     if i in a: a[i] += 1
>     else: a[i] = 1
>
> I wonder how the latter is justified in Python.
>
> Thanks,
> Weiguang



From michael.bierenfeld at web.de  Fri Nov 26 05:14:20 2004
From: michael.bierenfeld at web.de (michael)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 02:14:20 -0800
Subject: How do you execute external programs from Python?
References: <iGppd.2045$3N5.117@amstwist00>
	<251120041136391879%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>
Message-ID: <f11c8440.0411260214.49beff3f@posting.google.com>

> > Here is my crontab entry:
> > 
> > 30 * * * * python -c "import os; os.chdir('/home/alpha/mymusic/P2/Jazz/');
> > import KKJZ"

Hi,

if cron is running as root say

30 * * * * "su - user; script.sh"

su - user means that .profile, .bash-profile etc is read. I think its
an "Environmental" Problem


From max at alcyone.com  Tue Nov 16 02:04:58 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:04:58 -0800
Subject: int literals and __class__ (WAS: Is a list an instance of a
	class?)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6407.1100587895.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <4197c013$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>	<ad052e5c.0411150401.2b215499@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6407.1100587895.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xoWdnQEG3sEHOwTcRVn-1w@speakeasy.net>

Steven Bethard wrote:

> Why does this work?  Or, perhaps my real question is why *doesn't* it work
> without the space?  Pointers to the appropriate point in the docs would be
> fine...  I assume it's something about making parsing easier...?

It's because otherwise it's confusing it for a floating point literal. 
All you need to do is put a break so that the parser can't get confused. 
  1 ._class__ or (1).__class__ will work just fine.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
   Love is the triumph of imagination over intelligence.
   -- H.L. Mencken


From garbagecollector86 at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 30 01:17:36 2004
From: garbagecollector86 at hotmail.com (Tom Hanks)
Date: 29 Nov 2004 22:17:36 -0800
Subject: PIL 1.1.4 paste PNG's with transparency problem
References: <opsh9fbhwc1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
Message-ID: <3b6f03cd.0411292217.23ca37cb@posting.google.com>

"Caleb Hattingh" <caleb1 at telkomsa.net> wrote in message news:<opsh9fbhwc1js0xs at news.telkomsa.net>...
> >>> iconBallImage.paste(iconShieldImage, (10,10))

>>> iconBallImage.paste(iconShieldImage, (10,10), iconShieldImage)
                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                                  transparency as 3rd parameter

TTFN
Tom.


From dmerrillq at usaq.netq  Mon Nov 29 12:23:03 2004
From: dmerrillq at usaq.netq (Dave Merrill)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:23:03 -0500
Subject: Newbie MySQLdb / MySQL version problem, I think
References: <q5idnQ4l3bB-gTfcRVn-hQ@rcn.net>
	<I9rqd.36289$B06.35944@news.edisontel.com>
	<23ae7099.0411290103.51bd5fb0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <DM-dnUDV07hqxzbcRVn-vA@rcn.net>

Thanks Allastair, Leon, Tim, anyone else I missed. Bingo, that was it.

I didn't even try looking at mysql.com, duh. In my defense (;-), I'd already
spent a bunch of time in incompatible version hell with other things, so I
was (too) ready to think it either wouldn't work period, or I'd borked it up
somehow. Bless the problems you can fix, easily, even...

Dave Merrill


> I'm using MySQLdb with mysql 4.1 and I've seen this too - to get
> around it go to the following link:
>
> http://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql/en/Old_client.html




From danperl at rogers.com  Wed Nov  3 13:59:21 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 13:59:21 -0500
Subject: general class functions
References: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>
	<kj9eo0hkjem9pbj3pvdbpea6gpl06ighsj@4ax.com>
	<a76ba315.0411021009.46b06459@posting.google.com>
	<FPWdnS8cTNnreBrcRVn-qw@rogers.com>
	<a76ba315.0411030818.9457fe3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3q6dnTBD--UTtxTcRVn-1w@rogers.com>

I probably cannot do justice to the topic, although I have personally 
encountered cases where by following the advice of people more experienced 
in python than me I was able to improve my code.  But I can point you to a 
couple of links:
http://www.python.org/2.2.1/descrintro.html
http://www.python.org/doc/2.2.1/whatsnew/

In a nutshell, subclassing from object is part of the new-style classes 
introduced in python 2.2.  Quoting from "Learning Python" 2nd ed., "perhaps 
the most visible change in new style classes is their slightly different 
treatment of inheritance for the so-called diamond pattern of multiple 
inheritance trees-where more than one superclass leads to the same higher 
superclass further above".  Look also at cooperative methods in the links I 
mentioned above (if I remember correctly, cooperative methods have been the 
main reason for me to change classes to the new style).

I'm sure other people in this newsgroup can make a better case for new-style 
classes than I can.

HTH,

Dan

"syd" <syd.diamond at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:a76ba315.0411030818.9457fe3 at posting.google.com...
> "Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote in message
>> >>>> library.get_continent('Europe')
>> This line creates and returns an instance of Library.  I assume that you
>> imported foo in a python session and then you executed that line.  That
>> results in a call to Library.__repr__( ), which is not defined.  First of
>> all, I recommend you change class Library to subclass from object. 
>> That's
>> just good practice in general and in this case it will give you a default
>> __repr__( ) method.  But that's probably not what you want.  What you
>> probably want is to still use a line like:
>>     print library.getContinent('Europe').getNameList()
>> Otherwise, library.get_continent('Europe') is going to print something 
>> like:
>>     <__main__.Library object at 0x00A9F430>
>
> You're 100% right, Dan -- I meant to have the "getNameList()" tacked
> on.
>
> But more importantly, why is subclassing object a good practice in
> general?  I see under dir(object) that you get some good default
> methods.  I looked under the documentation, but could not find a good
> specific examples as to why this was a good practice.  Can you
> elaborate, please? 




From aslakr+news at idi.ntnu.no  Fri Nov  5 10:59:50 2004
From: aslakr+news at idi.ntnu.no (Aslak Raanes)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 16:59:50 +0100
Subject: How do you execute an OS X application (bundle) from Python?
References: <70bb9f8d.0411040250.1f4ac1a@posting.google.com>
	<69cbbef2.0411041513.120fc039@posting.google.com>
	<1gmrrsj.7ljqd6f3sgkfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<m24qk4ttl2.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>
	<1gms4py.c7p5cjeee3clN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<m2u0s4sb6e.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>
	<just-291BBC.15051705112004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gmsdj3.12zknwuzpl15lN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1gmseyg.1vucxrh8e5hf6N%aslakr+news@idi.ntnu.no>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Nice!!!  OK, so what we need are similar commandline tools for other
> useful apps, since MacOSX's own 'open' does not provide such a -w switch
> (maybe it's too generic a tool for such a switch to be conceivable...?)

One might use the external editor protocol for this:

http://www.barebones.com/support/develop/odbsuite.shtml
http://www.merzwaren.com/external_editor.html

Several text editors support this protocol.


-- 
Vennlig hilsen
Aslak Raanes


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 19:14:28 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:14:28 -0200
Subject: Named tuples
In-Reply-To: <1gnf6b7.nnqkns1c991f3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6392.1100556222.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbg4k.13z20mj1w1o0ysN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.6511.1100727971.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnf6b7.nnqkns1c991f3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041117161462eb1bcd@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 23:56:31 +0100, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > But perhaps we could have something like "named tuples"; immutable
> > objects, like tuples, with the property that a unique name can be
> > associated to every item.
> 
> Of course we should -- I've lost count of how many recipes in the
> cookbook I've merged that were implementing that idea in umpteen ways,
> not counting several other ideas that only flew by in this NG.  Since
> standard modules time, os (for stat), resource (dunno if any others),
> started returning this kind of supertuples, their convenience has been
> obvious to all.  I do believe they SHOULD _be_ tuples (that matters when
> they're the only RHS argument of a % formatting operator) and it should
> also be easy to get from them a name->value mapping (for % formatting
> with named-items format style, and the like).  Definitely PEP time...
> who's gonna carry the torch?

*After* I posted that message, I *did* some research (wrong order, I
know). And you're right, the situation now is pretty much like
Tanenbaum's famous quote: "the nice thing about standards is that
there are so many of them to choose from".

I am tempted to start writing this PEP. I think that I have a pretty
good idea about what do I want (which by itself isn't worth very
much). Anyway, it's a starting point:

1. Do not change the syntax. This leaves out some of the fancy
proposals, but greatly improves the acceptance chances.

2. Named tuples should, for all practical purposes, be an extension of
standard tuples.

3. Conventional access returns a tuple. __getitem__ works as in a
tuple, and the object itself is represented (by repr() and str()) as a
tuple.

4. Named attribute access is supported by __getattr__. Names are
looked up on the magic __names__ attribute of the tuple.

5. On slicing, a named tuple should return another named tuple. This
means that the __names__ tuple has to be sliced also.

6. Although useful, a new named tuple *cannot* be built directly from
a dict, as in this example:

tuple({'a':1, 'b':2})

...because the dict isn't ordered, and there is no way to guarantee
that the tuple would be constructed in the correct order. This will
only be possible if the dict stores the ordering information (btw, the
'correct' order is the definition order; it's the only one that can't
be inferred later at runtime, and alphabetical ordering can be always
obtained by a simple sort).

(However, *if* ordered dicts ever make it into the language, then a
conversion between 'named tuples' and 'ordered dicts' would become
natural -- think about it as an 'adaptation' :-)

7. Now for the controversial stuff. NamedTuples can be implemented as
a regular class -- there are many recipes to look at and choose from.
However, I think that is possible to implement named attribute access
as an "improvement" of regular sequence types, with no syntax changes.

The idea is that any tuple could be turned into a named tuple by
assigning a sequence of names to its __names__ magic attribute. If the
attribute isn't assigned (as it's the case with plain tuples), then
the named attribute is disabled. BTW, adding names to an unnamed tuple
*does not* violates the immutability of the tuple.

The usage would be as follows:

    time = now()
    time.__names__ = ('hour', 'minute', 'second')
    print time.hour

The reasoning behind this proposal is as follows:

7.1. It's fully backwards-compatible.

7.2. It allow for easy annotation of existing tuples.

7.3. It allows for internal optimization. By using an internal mapping
directly wired into the sequence, it is possible to hide the mapping
mechanism, and also to make it work faster. This also adds a safety
layer, and helps to avoid direct 'peeking' at the internal mapping
structure that will be exposed by a native Python implementation.

The *biggest* problem of this proposal is that it's MUCH more complex
-- orders of magnitude, perhaps -- and also, that it may present
problems for others implementations besides CPython. Anyway, it's
something that I think deserves discussion.


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Tue Nov  2 11:00:19 2004
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 08:00:19 -0800
Subject: Python AST as XML
References: <1e015c2a.0410272209.3e831f94@posting.google.com>
	<3sg1o0djs6u5o055pvu88610n5k5498i1q@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5339b60d.0411020800.41c07c17@posting.google.com>

Andy Dingley <dingbat at codesmiths.com> wrote in message news:<3sg1o0djs6u5o055pvu88610n5k5498i1q at 4ax.com>...
> On 27 Oct 2004 23:09:02 -0700, olepar at gmail.com (Oleg Paraschenko)
> wrote:
> 
> >maybe of some interest:
> 
> Maybe 5 years ago, before we realised what a bad idea it was.

Actually, it's something I've considered before myself, and there are
apparently various extensions to GCC (the compiler suite, not just the
C compiler) which support similar concepts, so I suppose it's the
royal "we" you're using.

> >http://pysch.sourceforge.net/ast.html
> >
> >[quote]
> >XML can be considered as an external representation of in-memory
> >tree-like structures, 
> 
> Yes. But why would I want to ?   XML is a clumsy _internal_
> representation and it's only useful as an external representation if
> you need some lowest-common-denominator more than you need a good and
> appropriate representation.  The best external representation of
> Python is some Python source, not some over-abstracted XML version.

Unless you're writing tools in other languages. I personally find the
various Python modules for source code inspection to be adequate, but
you can't just import the compiler package in Java, for example.

> > and XML-related standards as methods of processing such data. 
> 
> XML-related protocols don't process data, they process an XML
> representation of that data. Their ability to do so is based on the
> XML aspect of it, not the underlying data model. This makes them
> somewhere between clumsy to develop wiith, or simply incapable of
> addressing the problem.
> 
> "Lets make all our data standards interwork by using XSLT" was the
> theme of late '99.   It didn't work.

It may not have worked in the royal court, but XSLT has lots of
interesting and productive uses provided you choose your problems
carefully. I can imagine that transforming various sections of Python
code (for simple macro implementations, for example) *is* one of those
problem areas in which XSLT can usefully be used. Moreover, by
choosing XML, the developer(s) have at least opened an area up to
various effective tools (including XSLT) which could not have been
readily used in that area before; that in itself suggests that the
project was worth undertaking, if only for the benefits subsequent
projects can derive from it.

Paul


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Nov 30 16:02:19 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:02:19 -0500
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.4 (final)
In-Reply-To: <slrncqplag.n8q.mortenjo@iago.uio.no>
References: <mailman.6913.1101817983.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncqplag.n8q.mortenjo@iago.uio.no>
Message-ID: <coin3r$oek$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Morten Lied Johansen wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:31:34 +1100, Anthony Baxter wrote:
> 
>>On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I'm
>>happy to announce the release of Python 2.4.
> 
> 
> Question from a noob:
> 
> I have several third party python-modules installed on my current
> Windowssystem, and I was wondering if there is a way to upgrade to
> Python 2.4 without having to download and install all of those again?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions. :)

If they're pure Python, done as standard packages with no
special dependencies etc, you could just copy their folders
from the lib/site-packages folder of your old Python to the
equivalent place in the new one.

If they're not, it may still be possible, but downloading
and installing may be easier.

My approach is to maintain a folder with the original .exe
files for each package I install, separate from everything
else.  When I upgrade, I just run them again and select
Python 2.4 as the destination, and I don't have to worry
about extracting them from the old version.

If, by the way, these packages include C extensions, you
definitely have to download new ones and install from
scratch...

-Peter


From helten0007 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 23 15:34:51 2004
From: helten0007 at yahoo.com (Pete.....)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 21:34:51 +0100
Subject: Transfer data from webpage form to database
References: <41a36ab7$0$23056$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net>
	<m33bz05u3p.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
	<41a38f13$0$23068$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net>
	<m3u0rg49kx.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
Message-ID: <41a39c29$0$29447$ba624c82@nntp06.dk.telia.net>

Hi again and thanks.
I think I understand the meaning of string formatting operators, I also 
understand the meaning with % (form['name'].value, form['surname'].value, 
form['username'].value)) And that it is a dictionary that I use.

The thing I find really hard to understand is how I can send the data from 
the webform to my postgresql database. I cant find the right commands, i 
been searching the web for days now without luck.

PgSQL.query(''' INSERT into form Select persons.idpersons, person.username,
persons.surname, phone.phone  (And so on ) ( its what the specific tables is 
called in my db)
>From persons, phone( And so on )
Where persons.name = 'Name'%s
AND persons.surname ='Surname'%s
AND persons.username = 'Username'%s ''' (And so on with the rest)

I dont really know if I have to write Pgsql.query("INSERT into form 
........................
or if I have to write something else.
I know that I have to take the input from my webform, and store each input 
( with each input I mean what the user types in each field, could be the 
name, the username etc) in a "variable" so that I can put it into the right 
place in the db.
I can see that I do this by using % (form['name'].value, 
form['surname'].value,  form['username'].value))
But I dont know how I put the data form['name].value in to my database in 
the table persons.name.

Sorry for all this questions, just getting really confused with this little 
project of mine, thinks its fun, but I just cant figure it out anymore, and 
I cant find any info I can use on the web....

Thanks for taking your time to read this....


"Jerry Sievers" <jerry at jerrysievers.com> wrote in message 
news:m3u0rg49kx.fsf at prod01.jerrysievers.com...
> "Pete....." <helten0007 at yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Hi, yeah It's try I want to change it to a python.cgi.script. And thanks 
>> for
>> your input.....
>>
>> I use the api pgsql
>> So the first thing I do is to import the following and connect to the
>> server:
>>
>> #!/pack/python-2.3.2/bin/python2.3
>> from pyPgSQL import PgSQL
>> import cgi
>> import cgitb
>> cgitb.enable()
>>
>> form = cgi.FieldStorage()  ( I added this )
>> connect = PgSQL.connect(user="vvvvv", password="zzzzz", 
>> host="xxx.xxx.xx",
>> database="yyyyy")
>>
>> Do I then have to write:
>>
>> PgSQL.query(''' INSERT into form
>>                          Select persons.idpersons, person.username,
>> persons.surname, phone.phone  (And so on ) ( its what the specific tables
>> are called in my database)
>>                          From persons, phone 
>> (
>> And so on )
>>                          Where persons.name = 'Name'%s
>>                           AND persons.surname ='Surname'%s
>>                           AND persons.username = 'Username'%s '''
>> (And so on with the rest)
>>                            % (form['name'].value, form['surname'].value,
>> form['username'].value))
>>
>> I dont think I get it quite right, any help would be highly appreciated.
>> Thanks for all help...
>
> It looks to me like the part here that you don't understand is how to
> interpolate your form data into the string for the database query.
>
> You should study up on the % string formatting operator in the Python
> docs.
>
> I'll throw you a bone here;
>
> """
> %s %s %s
> """ % (form[key1].value, form[key2].value, form[keyN].value)
>
> Each of those %s tokens is going to be replaced with one of the values
> in the tuple right of the % operator.
>
> If you want to pile the form values into a dict and then use symbolic
> names in the string...
>
> dict = {}
> for key in form:
> dict[key] = form[key].value
>
> """
> %(key1)s %(key2)s...
> """ % dict
>
> Maybe there is a function in the cgi module that will make the dict
> for you?  I am not sure.
>
> Have fun!
>
>
> -- 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Jerry Sievers   305 854-3001 (home)     WWW ECommerce Consultant
>                305 321-1144 (mobile http://www.JerrySievers.com/ 




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Nov 25 16:44:03 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 16:44:03 -0500
Subject: copytree if directory exists
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.25.13.31.38.635077@thomas-guettler.de>
References: <pan.2004.11.25.13.31.38.635077@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <co5jm2$mha$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Thomas Guettler wrote:
> I need to copy a directory into an existing directory.
> shutil.copytree does complain that the directory already
> exists.
> 
> I need something like "cp -rp": Copy recursively, overwrite
> if file already exist. Preserve mtime and modes if possible.
> 
> A keyword argument "may_exist=1" for shutil.copytree would be nice.

Thomas, shutil.copytree is written in pure Python.  Grab the
source and stick in the appropriate exception handling around
the call to os.mkdir() and you should have about what you
need...

-Peter


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Nov 23 09:20:29 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:20:29 -0500
Subject: is int(round(val)) safe?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6717.1101179702.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <rowen-8AF206.11131622112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>	<cntjpk$qc2$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>	<DWsod.378073$wV.108786@attbi_s54>	<cntmi2$6rf$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<mailman.6717.1101179702.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <zIHod.2026$QR.1966@lakeread01>

Tim Peters wrote:

> [Peter Hansen]
> ....
> 
>>I wonder if it would be appropriate to say something along
>>the lines of '''round() returns an integer, but not an "int".'''
> 
> 
> Well, round() is a 2-argument function, whose second argument defaults
> to 0.  It's quite defensible to say that round returns an integer
> value when the second argument is 0.
> 
> 
>>Obviously the mathematicians will have something to say about
>>this.  In computers, 1.0 may not be an integer data type, but
>>I think in math it's still considered an integer.
> 
> 
> Depends on which mathematician you're talking to.  The integer 1 is
> most often defined as the set containing the empty set, or, in a
> suitably restricted set theory, with the set of all sets containing 1
> element (which is a proper class in most set theories).  A real, OTOH,
> is a godawful construction that Americans typically don't learn until
> after they've completed "calculus" and gone on to "analysis".
> 
And most of them don't understand even then. What I want to know is why 
doesn't Python 2.4 have a speedy implementation of infinite-dimensional 
Banach spaces?

> So, instead of talking to mathematicians, I advise talking to me
> <wink>.  Yes, 1.0 is an integer!  In fact, so is 1.9998e143:  all
> sufficient large floats are exact integers.  That's why, e.g.,
> math.ceil() and math.floor() return arguments like 1.9998e143
> unchanged -- such inputs are already integers.
> 
> 
>>I am most definitely not going to claim authority in this area, however,
>>since as an engineer I consider 1.0 and 1 merely "equal to a
>>first approximation". <wink>
> 
> 
> If they differ at all, then e = 1.0 - 1 must be nonzero.  Since it
> isn't, they're identical <wink>.

You can tell this by examining the behavior of something as simple (;-) 
as a Python dict:

 >>> d = {1.0: "Something",
...        1: "Something else"}
 >>> d
{1.0: 'Something else'}
 >>>

Python has known for a long time that 1.0 and 1 are the same thing. 
Note, however, that I don't believe it's guaranteed that the contents of 
d will turn out the same in different Python versions. I suppose Tim 
would be able to quote chapter and verse, given his familiarity with 
every little implementation detail of the dict.

guaranteed-to-confuse-the-confusable-ly y'rs  - steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Wed Nov  3 12:38:52 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 3 Nov 2004 17:38:52 GMT
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com> <2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>


Just a little question:

would sort of a summary of this thread be of any help?

Regards,
gab.

-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| There are works which wait,                                             |
| and which one does not understand for a long time; [...]                |
| for the question often arrives a terribly long time after the answer.   |
|                                                         (Oscar Wilde)   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From dsa at unilestemg.br  Wed Nov 10 10:48:31 2004
From: dsa at unilestemg.br (Douglas Soares de Andrade)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:48:31 +0000
Subject: About a python module (iptables)
In-Reply-To: <m3oei5u211.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu>
References: <200411100957.29615.dsa@unilestemg.br>
	<m3oei5u211.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <200411101548.31571.dsa@unilestemg.br>

Hi !

Thank you for the amazing aswer. I will check you program now. 

Really thanks.

See you !

Em Qua 10 Nov 2004 16:00, voc? escreveu:
> >>>>> "Douglas" == Douglas Soares de Andrade <dsa at unilestemg.br> writes:
>
>     Douglas> Hi !  Is there a module to do the interaction between
>     Douglas> python and iptables ? I want to make a app to interect
>     Douglas> with iptables (new chain, erase chain, list chain,
>     Douglas> generate rules and so on).
>
> I've written one that I've used privately for years on standalone
> machines as well as routers using NAT/etc.  It doesn't support all of
> iptables, but it does the common stuff.  In debug mode, it only prints
> out the rules to the logfile, but doesn't execute them.
>
> Whether it is sophisticated enough for your app, I don't know.  It was
> designed simply to setup the iptables config and then run, so there is
> no support for erasing chains, etc....
>
> I've uploaded a tarfile to
> http://jdh.uchicago.edu/share/py_iptables.tar.gz which contains the
> module code and some example scripts.
>
> Here is a simple script to configure the firewall for a typical
> standalone machine.
>
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> from IptablesRules import IptablesRules
>
> # debug=False executes the commands - you must be superuser
> ipt = IptablesRules(debug=True, verbose='moderate')
>
> nameservers = ipt.get_nameservers()
>
> # udpAccept and tcpAccept are dictionaries from ports to
> # machines which have access to those ports
> udpAccept = {"domain" : nameservers,}
>
> # we've parsed /etc/services so you can specify ports by name or
> # number.
> tcpAccept  = {
>     ('smtp', 'ntp', 'ssh', 'ftp', 'http', 'https') : 'all',
>     ('postgres', ) : "128.135.0.0/16",   # limit to U of C
>     ('all', ) : "128.135.90.217/32",     # my printer
>     }
>
> ipt.broadcast_policy(eth_iface="eth0", chain='DROP')
> ipt.drop_nolog_ports(ports = ('auth', 'netbios-ns', 'microsoft-ds'),
> eth_iface="eth0") ipt.implement_rules( udp_accept  = udpAccept,
>                      icmp_accept = ( 0, 3, 5, 8, 11 ),
>                      tcp_accept = tcpAccept,
>                      eth_iface   = "eth0"
>                      )
> ipt.execute( logfile = '/var/tmp/iptables_rules' )



From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Tue Nov 30 09:19:25 2004
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:19:25 -0000
Subject: weird behaviour of "0 in [] is False"
References: <pan.2004.11.30.12.57.59.582543@nospam.logilab.fr><cohrvl$7eg$01$1@news.t-online.com><pan.2004.11.30.13.32.55.103783@nospam.logilab.fr>
	<mailman.6923.1101824130.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cohvhd$vcl$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>


"Laszlo Zsolt Nagy" <gandalf at geochemsource.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.6923.1101824130.5135.python-list at python.org...

> Did you really try these examples?

>>> l is 1
False




From rroberts at adobe.com  Wed Nov 17 00:36:38 2004
From: rroberts at adobe.com (Read Roberts)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:36:38 -0800
Subject: Problem with Tkinter and some Kanji unicode values.
Message-ID: <p06020402bdc092eff730@[192.168.1.100]>

Has any one else seen the following?

Mac OSX 10.3.6, standard Python from 10.3.4 installation + tkAqua 
Tkinter.tkinter.TK_VERSION is '8.4'

I set a unicode string into a tKinter widget. Some kanji display 
correctly, some do not. The ones that don't show up as a white square 
followed by a black square. The font used by the widgets does contain 
glyphs for all the Unicode values in the test string.

I can copy and  text from the Entry widget, and paste it elsewhere, 
and see that i still get the correct Unicode values, so the problem 
is one of display rather than encoding conversion.

from Tkinter import *
from tkFont import Font as TKFont
root = Tk()
root.font = TKFont(root, font = 
(u'\u30d2\u30e9\u30ae\u30ce\u89d2\u30b4 Pro W3', 12))
print root.font.actual()
myFrame = Frame(root)
root.resizable(1, 1)
root.rowconfigure(0,weight=1)
root.columnconfigure(0,weight=1)
myFrame.grid()
myFrame.rowconfigure(0,weight=1)
myFrame.columnconfigure(0,weight=1)
myEntry = Entry(myFrame, borderwidth = 10, font=root.font)
testString = u"\u8146, \u500e, \u440c"
myEntry.insert(0, testString)
myEntry.grid()
print repr(myEntry.get())
myFrame.mainloop()

The font is used in this example is Hiragino Kaku Gothic-W3. 
FontBook shows that it has glyphs for all three Unicode values in the 
test string.  u8146 shows up correctly, the others do not.  Works 
fine on Windows.




From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sat Nov  6 18:26:22 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 18:26:22 -0500
Subject: Python OS
In-Reply-To: <20041106160313.14104.810245925.divmod.quotient.643@ohm>
References: <20041106160313.14104.810245925.divmod.quotient.643@ohm>
Message-ID: <418D5D9E.6020609@cloudthunder.com>

exarkun at divmod.com wrote:

> <SNIP>
>
>
>  For an actively developed Python OS project, see unununium.
>
> 
>  
>
This is the project I was referring to when I said, _has_ been done.


From claird at lairds.us  Fri Nov  5 13:08:04 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 18:08:04 GMT
Subject: How do you execute an OS X application (bundle) from Python?
References: <70bb9f8d.0411040250.1f4ac1a@posting.google.com>
	<69cbbef2.0411041513.120fc039@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <q4rs52-5o3.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <69cbbef2.0411041513.120fc039 at posting.google.com>,
has <has.temp2 at virgin.net> wrote:
>dfh at forestfield.co.uk (David Hughes) wrote in message
>news:<70bb9f8d.0411040250.1f4ac1a at posting.google.com>...
>> For example, in Python in a Nutshell, Alex Martelli shows how you can
>> run a Windows (notepad.exe) or Unix-like (/bin/vim) text editor using
>>       os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, editor, [textfile])
>> But how would you call the OS X text editor /Applications/TextEdit.app
>> - which appears to be a whole directory inside /Applications?
>
>Using os.system to execute open is pretty simple, as other folks have
>pointed out. The other way is to use Apple events, the standard
>high-level IPC system used by Mac GUI apps. The AE support currently
>in the standard library leaves something to be desired and is due for
>replacement. Much improved, though unfinished, AE support is available
>from my site:
>
>http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/appscript.html
>
>Fastest way to open a document is via the lower-level aem package
>(lower overheads, though you have to use raw AE codes):
>
>from aem.send import Application
>from Carbon.File import FSSpec
>Application('/Applications/TextEdit.app').event('aevt', 'odoc',
>{'----':FSSpec(pathToFile)}).send()
>
>
>Alternatively, the high-level appscript package wraps all this stuff
>in OO-like syntactic sugar and human-readable terminology (takes
>longer to initialise as it has to retrieve and parse the application
>terminology):
>
>from appscript import *
>app('TextEdit.app').open(FSSpec(pathToFile))
			.
			.
			.
This thread's focus on editing casuistry and Mr. Sanderson's 
own modesty might lead many to overlook what interesting
riches he's offering here.  While his work is "unfinished",
I think it'll intrigue anyone who works with MacOS.  Try it.


From paul.drummond at dsl.pipex.com  Tue Nov 23 12:08:29 2004
From: paul.drummond at dsl.pipex.com (Paul Drummond)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 09:08:29 -0800
Subject: pyQt data aware objects for Windows
Message-ID: <1101229709.560806.122070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hi Guys,

Sorry if this is the wrong place to post - is there a pyQt newsgroup?
I know there is a mailing list but I hate them!

I am using pyQt and BlackAdder which comes with Qt 3.3.3 - it costs
about ?30 but its worth it for Qt.  However, it doesn't come with any
Qt Database Drivers.

So the question is, is there any way to use QDataTable (and other QT
Database widgets) using my setup?  Or do I have to resort to using
python database modules which don't have any data aware widget support.
All I want to do is easily display resultsets in a QTable!



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Nov 18 11:59:36 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 08:59:36 -0800
Subject: Rationals?
In-Reply-To: <419c3185.348584998@news.oz.net>
References: <mailman.6528.1100750131.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<419c3185.348584998@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <20041118084736.F9C1.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:47:27 -0800, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
> 
> >
> >Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
> >> 
> >> With the decimals and the unification of int and long coming, it's natural
> >> (for me, anyway) to wonder how much interest there is in a rational type.
> >> There are two PEPs (239 and 240), and the Guido rejects them as no one
> >> seems interested in doing the work, but points out that the python
> >> distribution comes with examples/Demo/classes/Rat.py.
> >> 
> >> I propose - in the spirit of "batteries included" - that Rat.py be
> >> cleaned up some (mostly to take advantage of the union of ints and
> >> longs) and moved into the standard library.
> >> 
> >> Any good reasons not to do this?
> >
> >Update the PEP, do the work, and offer a good rational number object (if
> >you are interested in doing such). I have personally written at least
> >two different rational classes, and I am aware of at least 3 others
> >(though I can't remember their names).
> >
> >If it is implemented in Python; stay away from the binary GCD algorithm,
> >Euclid's is faster.
> >
> I just looked at Rat.py in the demos, and I am wondering why floating point
> is at all included. IMO rationals should be exact, and unless you define
> what exact value you would like to have a floating point value represent (e.g.,
> all available bits, or some rounding specification) you don't have a way
> to make an exact rational. With longs there is no legal floating point double
> number whose value can't be represented exactly as a rational, so there's no
> problem except deciding. Likewise any floating point string literal can be
> converted exactly, e.g., '123.4e-5' => Rat(1234, 1000000) etc., which I think
> can be handy. BTW, IIRC complex is implemented strictly with floating point pairs,
> so that doesn't seem satisfactory, unless a new complex class is implemented using
> rational pairs. Otherwise I'd say leave complex out.
> 
> Obviously fractional powers can produce non-rational results, so that poses
> a design problem if you want to handle them at all.
> 
> Anyway, am I the only one who thinks that rational should be exact?

I'm a big fan of being exact whenever possible (hence the symbolic
maximum and minimum values PEP...which strangely enough, a friend that I
introduced to Python commented out of the blue that a symbolic infinity
/should/ be in Python, but I digress).  Every rational class I've
written used longs, and I am of the opinion that any reasonable rational
class /would/ use longs.

The moment one cannot help but return a float, return a float (like
sqrt(1/2)).


It does look like gmpy does the right thing in most cases, though I am
uncertain as to its suitability for Python stdlib inclusion.


 - Josiah



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 14:56:55 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 19:56:55 GMT
Subject: Building a word list from multiple files
In-Reply-To: <3oqdnVtPVOyFMgHcRVn-rA@comcast.com>
References: <c644fe86.0411172344.6d6356d9@posting.google.com>
	<3oqdnVtPVOyFMgHcRVn-rA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <b87nd.630539$8_6.84277@attbi_s04>

Larry Bates wrote:
> 2) Are the words in the file separated with some consistent
> character (e.g. space, tab, csv, etc).
> 
> If not, you will probably need to use regular expressions
> to handle all different punctuations that might separate
> the words.  Things like quotes, commas, periods, colons,
> semi-colons, etc.  Simple string split won't handle these
> properly.

If you go this way, you probably ought to read this thread:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/250520.html

which suggests finding words with a regexp something like r'[^\W\d_]+'. 
  (If you're not concerned about internationalization, it could be simpler.)

STeve


From square690410 at yahoo.com.tw  Wed Nov  3 22:12:35 2004
From: square690410 at yahoo.com.tw (Leon)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:12:35 +0800
Subject: how to handle command line output(not terminal handle)
Message-ID: <cmc6r4$3b8$1@netnews.hinet.net>

such as :
c:\>python test.py
##Interval 1 seconds the "name" change next
friend : name

don't have to run clear,the "name" dynamic change content
and "friend" is stable 




From greg at invalid.invalid  Thu Nov 18 08:48:10 2004
From: greg at invalid.invalid (Greg Krohn)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:48:10 GMT
Subject: TPG error when using 't' as the first letter of a token
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6536.1100768465.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6536.1100768465.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uK1nd.29363$KJ6.21303@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Andrew James wrote:
> Gentlemen,
> 
> I'm running into a problem whilst testing the parsing of a language I've
> created with TPG . It seems that for some reason, TPG balks when I try
> to parse an expression whose first letter is 't' (or, in fact, at any
> time when 't' is at the beginning of a token). This doesn't happen with
> any other letter (as far as I know), nor if the 'T' is capitalised.

I have no idea what TPG is, but if it's only having trouble with a lower 
case t, could it be that the t is somehow getting escaped and TPG thinks 
it's a tab character?

Just a thought.

greg


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Nov 15 21:46:01 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 15:46:01 +1300
Subject: Identifying bundles in MacOS X
In-Reply-To: <Michael.J.Fromberger-2CA6CC.17042111112004@localhost>
References: <Michael.J.Fromberger-2CA6CC.17042111112004@localhost>
Message-ID: <2vt7veF2nues7U1@uni-berlin.de>

Michael J. Fromberger wrote:
> Given the pathname of a directory in my filesystem, I would like a 
> graceful way to determine whether or not that directory represents a 
> "bundle", in the sense that, when you double-click on the directory's 
> icon in the Finder, it is launched rather than "opened" for viewing.
> Applications behave this way by default, but so do various other file 
> types (e.g., the "rtfd" files created by TextEdit, and the data files 
> for certain applications such as Quicken).

I think that a MacOSX-style application can be recognised
simply by the fact that it's a directory whose name ends
in ".app". (You don't usually see that extension in the
Finder, but all MacOSX application bundles seem to have it.)

A Classic-style application is a file with a type code
of "APPL".

As for other files, they can be associated with applications
using either the old type/creator code system, or the new
filename-extension-based system (which is disappointingly
Windows-like, but sadly seems to be the dictated Way of
the Future :-(.)

The type and creator of a file can be found using FSpGetInfo.
You're right that this doesn't work for directories, but
directories don't have type/creator codes anyway. MacOSX
bundles seem to be recognised purely by filename suffix
(and possibly also by having the right internal structure).

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From jbperez808 at wahoo.com  Thu Nov 11 00:36:18 2004
From: jbperez808 at wahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:36:18 +0800
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <2vgbgjF2lj7hsU1@uni-berlin.de>

First of all, I really really really love Python but unlike
the other people posting on this thread I am not allergic
to criticisms of python and I feel the attitude of
some on this list is way too defensive and actually
works against the outside perception of the language.
(OTOH, what I saw on this thread is still considered mild,
you should see those LISPers defend their language! :-D )

Anyway, on to the topic at hand.  I actually don't
believe python is slower than java.  But truth to
tell, the answer can never be a simple 'one is faster
than the other'.

In the cases where Python is slower than Java, it
is because Java is JIT-compiled whereas Python by
default is bytecode-interpreted (unless you use Psyco).

In the cases where Python is faster than Java, it
is because much of Python's core and library functionality
is actually coded very efficiently in C, and said
code path is using much of this functionality.

When it comes to the language proper, Java is just
way more primitive than Python, and considering
that the speed of both will be *** of roughly the same
order ***, I'll take Python any day.

The fact that you can much more easily use and write
Python C extensions (still not exactly a picnic though)
than JNI ones is yet another speed-related thing in
favor of Python over Java.


Maurice LING wrote:
 > This may be a dumb thing to ask, but besides the penalty for dynamic
 > typing, is there any other real reasons that Python is slower than Java?
 >
 > maurice


From lbates at syscononline.com  Wed Nov  3 11:40:46 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 10:40:46 -0600
Subject: Send HTML e-mail in Python?
In-Reply-To: <c90c3203.0411021254.74b10c06@posting.google.com>
References: <c90c3203.0411021254.74b10c06@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <zJSdnVBYcsGUlxTcRVn-oQ@comcast.com>

Google is your friend: python send htlm email

turns up a recipe at ASPN:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/67083

Larry Bates


Max wrote:
> I am looking for some simple example code on generating SMTP e-mail
> messages in Python. I have a script that sends system reports to me at
> a central e-mail address, and it works fine using smtplib with plain
> text messages. I would like to enhance this script to send HTML
> formatted messages instead.
> 
> Simply sending a text message with HTML tags does not work. The e-mail
> client displays the message as plain text with visible <tags>.


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Nov  4 10:05:03 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 10:05:03 -0500
Subject: recover data from html form
In-Reply-To: <cmcqf0$e1n$3@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
References: <cmcqf0$e1n$3@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
Message-ID: <NrqdnSTjEc5g3xfcRVn-uw@powergate.ca>

Armand Federico - INFO wrote:
> How can i recover data from an html module?
> I have a form that send 3 or 4 text field
> 
> I wanna to recover this data, to analyse, and process, and insert in MySQL
> 
> (mod_python, Mysql4, Apache1.3)

The question is unclear.  Are you looking for suggestions on
the process called "web scraping"?  (search the web before
responding, if that term is unfamiliar to you, please)

-Peter


From tim.tadh at gmail.com  Sun Nov 21 23:05:20 2004
From: tim.tadh at gmail.com (Tim Henderson)
Date: 21 Nov 2004 20:05:20 -0800
Subject: Class Encapsulation Errors in Python 2.3.3
References: <47f7cc78.0411182007.1b77c2b1@posting.google.com>
	<nrudnceoVIIV5QDcRVn-hw@rogers.com>
	<47f7cc78.0411191409.3b3607fc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <47f7cc78.0411212005.46c3894@posting.google.com>

actually i bunch of the code that was posted above has been changed including this.

code:
--------------------------------------------------------------
class Artist:

     
     def __init__(self, name):
         self.songs = []
         self.albums = []
         self.unknownAlbum = Album('unknown')
         self.albums.append(self.unknownAlbum)
         self.name = name
         self.unknownAlbum.setArtist(self.name)
--------------------------------------------------------------

cheers

tim


From NutJob at gmx.net  Thu Nov 18 12:37:24 2004
From: NutJob at gmx.net (Markus Kemp)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 09:37:24 -0800
Subject: Need function to test if EFFECTIVE UID has read-access to a
	file.
References: <9b96ed1.0411170915.2b88da0e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9b96ed1.0411180937.2383c517@posting.google.com>

Me again, haha

Okay, I've solved my problem. Rearranged my program logic and
eliminated the check  that was to verify if the dir are accessable or
not, because if yes I would have called os.listdir() a few lines down
in the code anyway. So I sort of did what Skip suggested and just
listdir'd catching any OSError exceptions that get thrown if the dir
is not accessible for some reason. =)

Regards,

Markus


From mfuhr at fuhr.org  Mon Nov  8 02:41:30 2004
From: mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 00:41:30 -0700
Subject: checking a thread has started
References: <mailman.6001.1099749512.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<qliv52-mlq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<418d3323$1_2@omega.dimensional.com>
	<mailman.6030.1099794009.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418da3e0$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
	<mailman.6101.1099891397.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418f0f8e$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
	<mailman.6102.1099897944.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418f232a$1_2@omega.dimensional.com>

Deepak Sarda <deepak.sarda at gmail.com> writes:

> max user processes            (-u) 7168

That refutes the hypothesis that you've hit a process limit; it
must be something else.

-- 
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/


From rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it  Sun Nov 28 14:17:52 2004
From: rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it (gabriele renzi)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 19:17:52 GMT
Subject: The use of :
In-Reply-To: <30ukhmF357ptdU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <89cc6e1f.0411251858.40b6bbc7@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.26.08.33.40.219098@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<89cc6e1f.0411260953.4b6b98e7@posting.google.com>
	<zyUpd.6$d74.2@read3.inet.fi>
	<41aa1abb$0$25542$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<30ukhmF357ptdU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Avpqd.55491$Ni.1918466@twister1.libero.it>

Reinhold Birkenfeld ha scritto:

> Without the ':', single-line suites are impossible. If you allow only
> multi-line suites, you're right.
> 

are they really?
if <expression> <expressions>
and the likes would invho parse just fine


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 09:39:24 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 12:39:24 -0200
Subject: cherrypy/cheetah vs twisted/nevow
In-Reply-To: <slrncoc0tr.1tc7.charlotte@xs2.xs4all.nl>
References: <slrncoc0tr.1tc7.charlotte@xs2.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <864d37090411010639114872b3@mail.gmail.com>

On 01 Nov 2004 09:36:59 GMT, Charlotte <charlotte at donotspam.invalid> wrote:
> I am developing a web application and am looking for the best framework
> to do this in. I know this is an old question, and I have read the list
> archives and a couple of comparison pages on the web. I played around
> with some, and I have reduced my choices to two very different
> frameworks: cherrypy+cheetah and twisted+nevow.
> 
> I am writing the prototype in cherrypy with cheetah, and I like it
> very much. I am very impressed with the speed of development, and
> cherrypy seems to fit the way I think. Before this I used webware, but
> cherrypy is simpler and easier and does the things I want very well.
> Cherrypy is being completely redesigned at the moment. The 'old'
> version is no longer developed, the new version just had the first
> alpha release. While the new version looks promising, I am uncertain
> that it will be ready for production use very shortly. I can of course
> just use the old version, which is stable.

Hi! That was the same reason that got me hooked on CherryPy: it's
simplicity, and the fact that it seemed so 'obvious' to use. As for
the redesign, I'm already using the CP2 alpha project for a few
projects of mine. None of them is 'life critical', and I'm not using
all features, but it seems very stable to me right now. The main
difference is that CP2 is now 'pure python', with no intermediate
compilation step, which makes it even more natural to use than before.
 
> Because of my doubt, I went looking for alternatives, and stumbled
> upon nevow. I now absolutely think this is the way a web application
> should be developed. I like the way ui and code is seperated, I love
> formless, and livepage looks very promising.  However, it is still
> beta, and reportedly rather difficult to use.

I'm yet to study nevow, but I'm getting more and more interested. I
have my own approach to separation; I use to think about a third
entity, "structure", as being independent from code & ui. The
structure is the common part; it's the "glue" between ui and code; and
it's the first part to be designed. I'm still experimenting with this
concept. For what I have read so far, nevow seems to follow a similar
approach, although I haven't seen any reference to "structure" as a
third element in the design anywhere.

> The application should have a first version finished in about six
> months. Security is very important. The users of the application are
> fully trusted, so the most important in this regard is authentication
> (and encryption, of course), I think. I could, if needed, just code this
> myself. It is a relatively small application, at most a few thousand
> users, who will not be using the application, much less sending
> requests, at the same time. At the moment I do not expect to use much
> of twisted's great possibilities.

For what I know, twisted is a huge beast, and forces you to a totally
different programming paradigm. There is a wsgi gateway for twisted in
the works, and that may make things simpler for pure web development,
as it will hide some of the inherent complexity of twisted async
design. For my own needs, I still prefer to stay with CherryPy.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Mon Nov  8 06:15:58 2004
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 11:15:58 GMT
Subject: Color schemes
References: <41838c6e$0$7153$d5255a0c@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<18282ecb.0410301418.1ee469f5@posting.google.com>
	<418c2006$0$34293$cd19a363@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<18282ecb.0411061242.7deceef3@posting.google.com>
	<Xzcjd.21247$K7.19576@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<18282ecb.0411070931.34508476@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <OzIjd.27161$K7.12353@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

M.E.Farmer:

> Isn't PythonWin now based on Scintilla too? Circular refrences ;)

   Yes, but PythonWin first used RichEdit for syntax colouring which was
hard to make work well and so was turned off by default.

   Neil




From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 10 03:40:26 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:40:26 GMT
Subject: Getting Windows computer system info
References: <93c5215b.0411090947.a955001@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4191cf1d.77117799@news.oz.net>

On 9 Nov 2004 09:47:31 -0800, gao_bolin at voila.fr (Bolin) wrote:

>I was wondering how to get some system info from a PC running Windows
>in python. I am especially interested in knowing how much RAM the
>computer has, how much diskspace is still left, and what jobs are
>already running and how much memory they take. If this is off-topic, I
>would appreciate if you redirect me.
>
>Thank!
I use this to get a quick summary of disk free space from the console
command line:

----< df.py >----------------------
import os
def df(drives='C', showna=1):
    for drive in drives:
        drive = drive.upper()
        d = os.popen('dir/w '+drive+':\\').readlines()
        if not d:
            if showna: print '%s: (n/a)' % drive
            continue
        print '%s: (%-12s %12s bytes free ' %(
            drive,
            d[0].strip().split(' is ', 1)[-1]+')',
            d[-1].strip().split(' bytes ')[0]
        )

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys
    if len(sys.argv)<2: df()
    else: df(sys.argv[1])
----------------------------------

actually, i start it with df.cmd, which has:

@python c:\util\df.py CDEVW

since those are my useful drive letters.

As for dynamic stuff, if it's just for you, see if you have pstat.exe on your path
(likely if you have MS dev tools). If so, try it from the command line
to see what it gives you. Then you can write a quick python function
to run it via popen and extract what you want from the read result, e.g.,

 >>> import os
 >>> for line in os.popen('pstat.exe'):
 ...     if 'mem' in line.lower(): print line.rstrip()
 ...
 Pstat version 0.3:  memory: 327080 kb  uptime:  0 21:40:12.957
  Memory: 327080K Avail: 274140K  TotalWs:  40132K InRam Kernel: 3264K P:12572K
    c  18        22 8011f9ba  0:00:00.000  0:00:00.160 Wait:VirtualMemory
   2a  17         1 801223a4  0:00:00.000  0:00:00.000 Wait:VirtualMemory

Or eliminate the first-guess garbage

 >>> import os
 >>> for line in os.popen('pstat.exe'):
 ...     if 'emory:' in line: print line.strip()
 ...
 Pstat version 0.3:  memory: 327080 kb  uptime:  0 21:43:48.997
 Memory: 327080K Avail: 274668K  TotalWs:  39520K InRam Kernel: 3260K P:12484K

HTH

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From eurleif at ecritters.biz  Mon Nov  8 18:22:05 2004
From: eurleif at ecritters.biz (Leif K-Brooks)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 18:22:05 -0500
Subject: Mixing Python And Bash
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6131.1099954889.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6131.1099954889.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2vadd9F2infd2U1@uni-berlin.de>

Tom Purl wrote:
> I just wrote a Python script that is going to be called from bash script.
>  If the Python script fails, I want the bash script to also stop running. 
>  Unfortunately, I can't seem to get that to work.  Here's the script so
>  far:
> 
> # custom python script
> /usr/bin/python /home/username/Dev/Python/packZODB.py \ 
>   -s"gsgmc.sigma.zettai.net" -b 7
> 
> # next program
> /usr/bin/someOtherProgram

Have your Python script return a non-zero return code (e.g. sys.exit(1)) 
when it fails and then have your shell script check for that:

# custom python script
/usr/bin/python /home/username/Dev/Python/packZODB.py \
   -s"gsgmc.sigma.zettai.net" -b 7

if [ $? -ne 0 ]; then
     exit 1
fi

# next program
/usr/bin/someOtherProgram


From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Tue Nov  2 16:52:08 2004
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe Cavalaria)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 22:52:08 +0100
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<4187aafe$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<slrncofp1m.dvf.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <41880188$0$14993$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Gabriel Zachmann wrote:

>>  wall of abstraction".  A Smalltalk programmer would say that
>>  Python is more weakly typed than Smalltalk for user-defined types.
> 
> which brings me to another related question.
> 
> I understand strong/weak typing is more like a continuum --
> is there kind of a programming langauges hierarchy sorting various
> langauges accoring to "type-strongness" that is generally agreed upon?
> 
> I'd be interested in a hierarchy containing some of the following
> languages: ANSI-C++, C, Perl, Python, Pascal, ML.
> (because these happen to be some of the languages i know a bit ;-) )
> 
> Would the following be justifiable?
> 
>     Perl < C < C++ < Pascal < Python < ML ?
> 
> Or does anyone have a pointer?

If by ML you thing of OCaml you should try again. OCaml isn't type safe
because of a few modules of the standard library. The marshaling module
comes to mind. Using it you can "typecast" a pointer to an integer as a
pointer to a string and segfault in the process because the unmarshal
function trusts the caller to cast the result in the good type. In fact, it
seems impossible to write a correct typesafe marshaling module in OCaml
since there is no rtti info in the language for an anonymous piece of data.



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Nov  3 12:17:26 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:17:26 +0100
Subject: Problems using numarray
References: <cmb3al$sgi$00$2@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cmb3r6$sj4$00$2@news.t-online.com>

> Now, how can I use a numaray to store the body objects? I read the docu,
> but didn't figure out how to solve my problem. In C++ I just created a
> multidimensilnal array like data = new body[objects*timeframes] and I'm
> looking for something synonymous with numarray.


import Numeric
print Numeric.zeros((10, 20), Numeric.Float)

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From steve at ferg.org  Tue Nov  9 15:04:29 2004
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 9 Nov 2004 12:04:29 -0800
Subject: Tkinter for system administration?
References: <gO%id.86818$bk1.17025@fed1read05>
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0411091204.195d5175@posting.google.com>

the ability to 
> crank out simple GUIs quickly and without a lot of hassles or trips to 
> the reference manual is more important. 

Look at Easygui
http://www.ferg.org/easygui/index.html


From peter at monicol.co.uk  Fri Nov 19 06:10:25 2004
From: peter at monicol.co.uk (Peter Mott)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:10:25 -0000
Subject: CGI and logging module
References: <419d0a70$0$221$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
Message-ID: <419dd4a5$0$218$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>

This was a Columbus Egg. The version of Python Apache used had reverted to 
2.2.2 after a recent system failure. The version used for console logins was 
2.3.4. I'll contact my ISP :-).  Thanks for all the help.

Peter

"Peter Mott" <peter at monicol.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:419d0a70$0$221$bed64819 at news.gradwell.net...
>I am using:
>
> Python 2.3.4 (#2, Nov 14 2004, 18:06:48)
> [GCC 2.95.4 20020320 [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4
>
> with Apache/1.3.26. The following script causes an Internal Server Error 
> (with nothing in the Apache error logs AFAIK):
>
> #!/usr/local/bin/python
>
> import logging
>
> print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"
> print "<html><head><title></title></head><body><h1>OK</h1>"""
> print "</body></html>"
>
> The same script with the import statement commented out works as expected. 
> Has anyone encountered this? I have googled without success.
>
> Thanks
>
> Peter
> 




From eddie at kickingdragon.com  Sat Nov 13 19:06:35 2004
From: eddie at kickingdragon.com (Eddie Parker)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:06:35 -0700
Subject: Advice needed
In-Reply-To: <slrncpd7tv.1ge.fake@sewage.raw-sewage.fake>
Message-ID: <E1CT7vB-0004Tm-00@galvatron.kickingdragon.com>

I think you hit a good point, Matt.

Python is a WICKED language for prototyping. I'm not saying that's ALL it's
good for, however it's a great way to start out.

Tuples, Dictionary's, easy to manipulate String functions, and code that
just makes sense (the tab-as-a-way-to-define-scope bit used to annoy me, but
in all honest, it's a "Good Thing" (TM)).

As for what Python can offer that the other languages can't, that's a
case-by-case comparison, and also has a dash of personal preference for
flavour.

Personally: I agree with Matt. But to add to it: vs. Perl and VB, I like
Python as it has a nicer syntax, cleaner looking code, and more "space" in
the code - i.e., you don't need to write so much to get a lot of
functionality out of it.

I find myself using Python as a way to figure out something, when I don't
know what the problem scope is. Sometimes, my work STAYS in Python, when I'm
done, but if it's performance critical, you can always use the concept to
write it in C/C++, or you can even use something like Python's ability to
embed in C/C++ to farm out the performance bottlenecks, or Jython, if you're
a Java person (never used Jython, just saying it's an option. :)).  

Anyhow - you can't go wrong with Python, in my opinion. But I'm rather
heavily biased.

I'm also always right, however. :) (Jus' kidding). :)

-e-

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+eddie=kickingdragon.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+eddie=kickingdragon.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
Matt Garman
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 4:59 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Advice needed

On 13 Nov 2004 07:54:57 -0800, Alberto <aaflores at gmail.com> wrote:
> I was trying to understand the reasons why I should learn Python.
> More like a pros/cons about this language. Currently, I use C,
> C/C++, Java, Perl, Visual VB and was looking to see the usefulness
> of Python.  Any suggestions?

As others have suggested, the best thing you can really do is spend
several hours with Google and some sample Python code and see how
you like it.

The reason I started getting into it is the following: I do most of
my programming in C/C++.  For me, the problem with those languages
is that it takes relatively more code to do many tasks compared to
Python.  So if I'm working on something that I haven't thought all
the way through, I find myself back-tracking from time to time.
This can be *very* time-consuming in C/C++ (the trial-and-error
method of programming).  However, things can be developed so quickly
in Python, that if you have to back-track, little time is lost.

In a nutshell, I like and use Python for creating quick
proof-of-concepts and as a development concepting tool.  Although,
most very high level languages (such as Perl and VB) are good for
this too---so we're back to personal preference :)

But also, for me, I enjoy learning new languages just for the sake
of learning them.  I think it's fun, and as another said, new
languages usually teach you how to think about problems in a
different way.  I've benefitted from this language "cross
pollination" many times---using another language's techniques and
paradigms has helped me come up with elegant solutions on more than
one occasion.

At the end of the day, it's personal preference... but if you can
spare the time, and enjoy learning and playing with new languages,
why not learn Python?

Matt

-- 
Matt Garman
email at: http://raw-sewage.net/index.php?file=email
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 11/1/2004
 

---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 11/1/2004
 



From donn at drizzle.com  Wed Nov 24 00:26:37 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 05:26:37 -0000
Subject: protocols, inheritance and polymorphism
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>
	<Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<YWKod.137814$HA.44609@attbi_s01>
	<donn-F6A9D8.11153623112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<tqadnT2kAIXJEj7cRVn-hA@rogers.com>
	<donn-F39B72.13183123112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<mqedndyH_YCYUT7cRVn-uQ@rogers.com>
	<donn-D778C1.17100223112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<786dnYZkrq-ieT7cRVn-tw@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1101273995.954137@yasure>

Quoth "Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com>:
| "Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message 
| news:donn-D778C1.17100223112004 at gnus01.u.washington.edu...
| > I'm very sympathetic to the advantages of static typing
| > (NB, I read here that Python is strongly, though dynamically,
| > typed.  It is not statically typed.)  Rather than embrace
| > subtype polymorphism through inheritance, however, I see it
| > as evidence that no one has figured out how to make static
| > typing really work with OOP.  There has to be a better way
| > to do it.
|
| You're right, I should have said statically typed instead of strongly typed.
|
| But did you really mean "no one has figured out how to make *static* typing 
| really work with OOP" or did you mean *dynamic* typing?

Static.  I figure dynamic & OOP get along fine -- as Smalltalk showed,
along with I believe Objective C and of course Python.  Static typing
and Functional Programming seem to go hand in glove, cf. Haskell type
classes.  Static OOP seems to invite inelegant and unsound compromises.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it  Wed Nov 10 12:03:30 2004
From: NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it (Manlio Perillo)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:03:30 GMT
Subject: ConfigParser
References: <nrr3p0d03b1p2pcvk7irgbm1k0nurndehj@4ax.com>
	<8g84p0597pvl6ag102ejc1v4rvaockp0an@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9ei4p0pnmos0c8avto0b9i0if517i8uclj@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:39:42 +0100, Ivo Woltring <Python at IvoNet.nl>
wrote:

>On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:39:27 GMT, Manlio Perillo
><NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it> wrote:
>
>>Regards.
>>
>>Since sections in CongiParser files are delimited by [ and ], why
>>there is not an escape (and unescape) function for escaping
>>&, [, and ] characters to &amp;, &lbrack; and &rbrack; ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Thanks   Manlio Perillo
>
>just subclass from ConfigParser and add the functionality youself
>


Actually I have written two functions:

def escape(data):
    """Escape &, [ and ] a string of data.
    """
    data = data.replace("&", "&amp;")
    data = data.replace("[", "&lbrack;")
    data = data.replace("]", "&rbrack;")
    
    return data

def unescape(data):
    """Unescape &amp;, &lt;, and &gt; in a string of data.
    """
    data = data.replace("&lbrack;", "[")
    data = data.replace("&rbrack;", "]")
   
    # must do ampersand last
    return data.replace("&amp;", "&")


Maybe also '\n' to &nl; translation should be performed.




Thanks and regards   Manlio Perillo


From bj_666 at gmx.net  Sat Nov 20 13:22:13 2004
From: bj_666 at gmx.net (Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 19:22:13 +0100
Subject: stopping the sound server in PySol code -- how?
References: <iqAnd.69632$SW3.42915@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.20.16.05.21.35935@gmx.net>

In <iqAnd.69632$SW3.42915 at fed1read01>, Lynn wrote:

> I have a SuSe 9.1 linux box (although this isn't a new issue) with
> reasonably up to date everything.  When I run PySol, it grabs the sound
> system in a rude and complete way.  
> 
> I don't listen to sound and I NEED my sound system available even if PySol
> is running.

Do you have KDE and its sound server running?  Then you can try to start
PySol with the ``artsdsp`` wrapper.  The program intercepts access to the
low level sound devices in /dev/* and passes the data to the sound server.
See ``artsdsp --help`` for options.

Ciao,
	Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch


From peter at monicol.co.uk  Fri Nov 19 04:00:00 2004
From: peter at monicol.co.uk (Peter Mott)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 09:00:00 -0000
Subject: CGI and logging module
References: <419d0a70$0$221$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
Message-ID: <419db612$0$220$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>

Thanks for these responses all useful. I had completed a fairly large script 
which threw these unrecorded errors at me. Took ages to locate the soiurce 
of the problem. I should have used the try: except: round the import 
statement (I was using the 'import cgitb;cgitb.enable()' mantra but _after_ 
the impoprt statement :-( ).

As I said I am using Python on FreeBSD:

Python 2.3.4 (#2, Nov 14 2004, 18:06:48)
[GCC 2.95.4 20020320 [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import logging
>>>

and I imported loggng successfully. When I modify my script to the 
following:
===============
#!/usr/local/bin/python

try:
   import logging
except Exception, e:
   print "Content-type: text/html\n"
   print "<html><head><title></title></head><body><p>" + str(e) +"<p>"""
else:
   print "Content-type: text/html\n"
   print 
"<html><head><title></title></head><body><h1>OK</h1></body></html>"""

==============
It reports the error which is " No module named logging " .  Something is 
wrong here. Does anyone have any ideas?

Peter



"Peter Mott" <peter at monicol.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:419d0a70$0$221$bed64819 at news.gradwell.net...
>I am using:
>
> Python 2.3.4 (#2, Nov 14 2004, 18:06:48)
> [GCC 2.95.4 20020320 [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4
>
> with Apache/1.3.26. The following script causes an Internal Server Error 
> (with nothing in the Apache error logs AFAIK):
>
> #!/usr/local/bin/python
>
> import logging
>
> print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"
> print "<html><head><title></title></head><body><h1>OK</h1>"""
> print "</body></html>"
>
> The same script with the import statement commented out works as expected. 
> Has anyone encountered this? I have googled without success.
>
> Thanks
>
> Peter
> 




From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 30 09:26:34 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:26:34 -0500
Subject: slicing, mapping types, ellipsis etc.
In-Reply-To: <41ac7b0f$0$25780$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
References: <m34qj8e5yd.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
	<41ac5701$0$25761$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
	<41ac6c55$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<41ac7b0f$0$25780$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <41ac81d0$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>

Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Kent Johnson wrote:
> 
>> Maybe instead of referring to mappings it should say "The primary must 
>> implement __getitem__(), which is called with a value that is 
>> constructed from the slice list, as follows."
> 
> 
> In the section you mention, 'mapping' is equivalent to 'has __getitem__ 
> defined', and I'd be surprised if it's an isolated usage. Python 
> actually has trouble distinguishing between sequences and mappings, as 
> anyone who as tried to use the 'isMapping' API would know (the isMapping 
> API uses much the same definition as the reference manual does - so all 
> sequences show up as mappings, as they map indices and slices to objects).
> 
> Section 3 of the reference manual is actually more use for anyone 
> developing custom types that override special methods. E.g. proper 
> handling of slice objects is described here under container emulation:
> http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/ref/sequence-types.html

I understand that the distinction between sequences and mappings is 
fuzzy, as both use __getitem__() for access. But the usage of 'mapping' 
in 5.3.3 is inconsistent with the section you refer to. That page says 
"It is also recommended that mappings provide the methods keys(), 
values(), items(), has_key(), get(), clear(), setdefault(), iterkeys(), 
itervalues(), iteritems(), pop(), popitem(), copy(), and update() 
behaving similar to those for Python's standard dictionary objects."

and under __getitem__(): "For *sequence* types, the accepted keys should 
be integers and slice objects."

I just think 5.3.3 is unnecessarily opaque. Particularly since the only 
built-in mapping (dict) doesn't even accept simple slices as indices.

Kent

> 
> Regards,
> Nick.
> 


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Nov 11 12:38:14 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 17:38:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: typed variables (WAS re.compile.match() results ...)
References: <2vh2mlF2lbkrdU1@uni-berlin.de> <41938e20$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<hpLkd.948$ry5.537@fe51.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041111T182755-333@post.gmane.org>

Stefan Seefeld <seefeld <at> sympatico.ca> writes:
> 
> Scott David Daniels wrote:
> > Axel Bock wrote:
> > 
> > This shows a misunderstanding.  Python does not have typed variables.
> 
> huh ? It is perfectly valid to ask what type a variable has, i.e. python
> is 'strongly typed'.

I think perhaps Axel Bock was getting a little pedantic here.  Technically
Python does not have typed variables; any "variable" in Python can hold an
object of any type.  Hence examples like:

>>> a = 'a'
>>> a = 4.5

Probably a better way of saying this is to say that *names* in Python can be
*bound* to objects of any type.  Of course, Python is strongly typed, so the
objects 'a' or 4.5 will not change type on you, though you are free to bind any
name you like to these objects:

>>> a = b = c = 'a'
>>> a is b
True
>>> b is c
True
>>> a, b, c
('a', 'a', 'a')

I think Axel Bock would have been happier if the sentence:

"now a,b,c,d are all string variables, and they all come out as unicode strings"

had been expressed as something like:

"now the names a,b,c,d are all bound to unicode objects"

Steve



From foo at bar.com  Sat Nov  6 00:15:14 2004
From: foo at bar.com (Steve Menard)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 00:15:14 -0500
Subject: How come wxPython isn't in the standard library?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <J5Zid.43995$v03.956437@wagner.videotron.net>

BJ?rn Lindqvist wrote:
> See: http://www.wxpython.org/quotes.php. especially:
> 
> "wxPython is the best and most mature cross-platform GUI toolkit,
> given a number of constraints. The only reason wxPython isn't the
> standard Python GUI toolkit is that Tkinter was there first." - Guido
> van Rossum
> 
> Guess, that answers my question, but isn't "Tkinter was there first" a
> very bad answer? :) It is kinda ugly too, so I wonder why it can't be
> replaced? Or maybe another GUI library could complement it. IMHO,
> having a good GUI library in the stdlib would make distributing GUI
> apps much easier. Windows users (and many Linux users) doesn't like
> searching the net to find and download lots of dependancies.
> 

I haven't used WxPython for a little while, but not long ago (less than 
a year) it was dreadfully easy to crash a program if even a little 
mistake happened. Add to that that WxPython prigram will silently eat 
any unexpected exceptions, and you get a very hard to debug situation.

For me, this would sisqualify wxPython as a standard Library component.


Steve


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Wed Nov 10 08:39:51 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:39:51 -0500
Subject: jython and curses
In-Reply-To: <qHokd.29893$g4.559647@news2.nokia.com>
References: <qHokd.29893$g4.559647@news2.nokia.com>
Message-ID: <41921A27.3050209@bellsouth.net>

Sateesh wrote:

>Hi,
>Is there any version of jython that has support for curses library?
>Or is there anyway I can use curses library for my jython programs?
>
>Thanks
>Sateesh
>
>
>  
>
You could try using a Java curses library:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/javacurses/


Jeremy Jones


From peter.jakubik at stonline.sk  Tue Nov 30 04:37:42 2004
From: peter.jakubik at stonline.sk (Peter Jakubik)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 01:37:42 -0800
Subject: Python Embedding and pep-0263
Message-ID: <d2c94f73.0411300137.2b93ffd2@posting.google.com>

Hi
I am embedding Python 2.3.3 in C++ under Win2k. I am using in my App only
Python DLL and empty site.py (so that User doesn't have to install Python). The
Python Scripts contains Non-ASCII characters and i get DeprecationWarning
pep-0263.
How can i set Python File encoding from C-Code before Script starts ?

Any help would be appreciated.

peter


From exogen at gmail.com  Sun Nov  7 09:34:12 2004
From: exogen at gmail.com (Brian Beck)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 09:34:12 -0500
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <cml9h2$q70$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au> <alGid.47522$HA.14125@attbi_s01>
	<cml9h2$q70$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cmlbs4$5vu$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>

Pythogoras wrote:
> OK. I will rewrite it in Java.
> 
> ///
> long t = currentTimeMillis();
> tryCopyFile("in.txt","out.txt");
> out.println( (currentTimeMillis() - t) / 1000);
> ///
> 
> You lost. The Java-version is shorter!
> I didn't count import- and import static-statements
> because Eclipse cares about imports automatically.

I don't know what version of Java they're using in this troll's fantasy 
land, but tryCopyFile does not, and has never existed in any Java 
implementation.  The real code for copying a file would look something 
like the contents of this function (which is not a part of the standard 
library):

public static void copy(File source, File dest) throws IOException {
      FileChannel in = null, out = null;
      try {
           in = new FileInputStream(source).getChannel();
           out = new FileOutputStream(dest).getChannel();

           long size = in.size();
           MappedByteBuffer buf = in.map(FileChannel.MapMode.READ_ONLY, 
0, size);

           out.write(buf);

      } finally {
           if (in != null)          in.close();
           if (out != null)     out.close();
      }
}



From drew at gremlinhosting.com  Thu Nov 18 13:23:59 2004
From: drew at gremlinhosting.com (Andrew James)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 18:23:59 +0000
Subject: FIXED TPG error when using 't' as the first letter of a token
In-Reply-To: <1100792193.27722.35.camel@odin>
References: <mailman.6536.1100768465.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<uK1nd.29363$KJ6.21303@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1100792193.27722.35.camel@odin>
Message-ID: <1100802240.27722.59.camel@odin>

Gentlemen,
Fixed what turned out to be my appalling knowledge of regexps. It turns
out that inline tokens are parsed as regular expressions by TPG and I
hadn't properly escaped the '[' characters. This means the START rule
has been changed to this:

START -> CatExpr ('\[' MetaExpr '\]')?

Now things work as expected, but I'm still unsure as to why this symptom
was only occurring with the uncapitalised character 't'.... can anyone
enlighten me?

Regards,
Andrew

On Thu, 2004-11-18 at 15:36 +0000, Andrew James wrote:
> Greg,
> Thanks for your response. Thought about this and tried with a lowercase
> 'n' and a few other letters to check it out. It ran fine, so I'm back to
> square one ;-/
> 
> TPG is a parser generator for Python (which is really quite cool) and
> can be found at: http://christophe.delord.free.fr/en/tpg/
> 
> Can anyone else offer any insight?
> 
> Regards,
> Andrew
> 
> On Thu, 2004-11-18 at 13:48 +0000, Greg Krohn wrote:
> > Andrew James wrote:
> > > Gentlemen,
> > > 
> > > I'm running into a problem whilst testing the parsing of a language I've
> > > created with TPG . It seems that for some reason, TPG balks when I try
> > > to parse an expression whose first letter is 't' (or, in fact, at any
> > > time when 't' is at the beginning of a token). This doesn't happen with
> > > any other letter (as far as I know), nor if the 'T' is capitalised.
> > 
> > I have no idea what TPG is, but if it's only having trouble with a lower 
> > case t, could it be that the t is somehow getting escaped and TPG thinks 
> > it's a tab character?
> > 
> > Just a thought.
> > 
> > greg
> -- 
> Andrew James <drew at gremlinhosting.com>
> 
-- 
Andrew James <drew at gremlinhosting.com>



From tim.peters at gmail.com  Mon Nov 22 22:14:57 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:14:57 -0500
Subject: is int(round(val)) safe?
In-Reply-To: <cntmi2$6rf$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
References: <rowen-8AF206.11131622112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<cntjpk$qc2$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<DWsod.378073$wV.108786@attbi_s54>
	<cntmi2$6rf$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <1f7befae0411221914249357d1@mail.gmail.com>

[Peter Hansen]
...
> I wonder if it would be appropriate to say something along
> the lines of '''round() returns an integer, but not an "int".'''

Well, round() is a 2-argument function, whose second argument defaults
to 0.  It's quite defensible to say that round returns an integer
value when the second argument is 0.

> Obviously the mathematicians will have something to say about
> this.  In computers, 1.0 may not be an integer data type, but
> I think in math it's still considered an integer.

Depends on which mathematician you're talking to.  The integer 1 is
most often defined as the set containing the empty set, or, in a
suitably restricted set theory, with the set of all sets containing 1
element (which is a proper class in most set theories).  A real, OTOH,
is a godawful construction that Americans typically don't learn until
after they've completed "calculus" and gone on to "analysis".

So, instead of talking to mathematicians, I advise talking to me
<wink>.  Yes, 1.0 is an integer!  In fact, so is 1.9998e143:  all
sufficient large floats are exact integers.  That's why, e.g.,
math.ceil() and math.floor() return arguments like 1.9998e143
unchanged -- such inputs are already integers.

> I am most definitely not going to claim authority in this area, however,
> since as an engineer I consider 1.0 and 1 merely "equal to a
> first approximation". <wink>

If they differ at all, then e = 1.0 - 1 must be nonzero.  Since it
isn't, they're identical <wink>.


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Tue Nov 23 16:34:06 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:34:06 +1100
Subject: Python and generic programming
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE4A90F0@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

Ronald Oussoren wrote:

> On 23-nov-04, at 5:56, Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy) wrote:
> 
>> And now a version that works with multiple arguments ...
> 
> PEAK (http://peak.telecommunity.com/) has an implementation of generic
> functions in its repository. It seems to be more complete than your
> version ;)

I should hope so. My version was 30 minutes building on Carl's work ;)

Tim Delaney


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Nov 15 19:37:09 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 19:37:09 -0500
Subject: os.path.exists discrepancy
References: <mailman.6375.1100506914.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uwtwmhbnu.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

"Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> writes:

> Bah. I bet you're right. The webserver runs as LocalSystem, and the
> folder in question is a mapped drive on another machine. I'll test that
> tomorrow.

That'll do it.  Under Windows, LocalSystem has nearly unlimited local
privileges, but it has no network privileges.

-- David


From lisawill4u at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 21 06:33:51 2004
From: lisawill4u at yahoo.com (I found this great little site.)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 11:33:51 GMT
Subject: I found this great little site.
Message-ID: <04112106335153693@news-server.cfl.rr.com>

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From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 21:01:22 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 00:01:22 -0200
Subject: ANN Python IRCD
In-Reply-To: <m3mzxgdpb9.fsf@union.tjtech.com>
References: <m3mzxgdpb9.fsf@union.tjtech.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041117180124b4d68c@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 23:32:47 GMT, Joseph T. Bore <jbore at tjtech.com> wrote:
> 
> I would like to let everyone know about, and release onto the world,
> my python IRCD.
> 
> The goals of it were to be small and light, not a full IRC protocol
> implementation.  To that end, it's under 500 lines of code and just
> one file.
> 
> It's stable, and seems ready for others to use, I'll probably spend
> the next few releases working on more comments and adding a few more
> basic functions.
> 
> I Hope others find it useful..
> 
>      http://pyircd.sf.net

I was thinking about making a IRC-to-Web gateway... something like a
web-based IRC client, using some Javascript & RPC tricks to make it
work in real time, without page reloads. But this is not really a
priority, and I am already way too busy, so I don't think that I'll be
able to do it anytime soon. But having something related already
written in Python is nice.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From trentm at ActiveState.com  Fri Nov 19 18:34:10 2004
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:34:10 -0800
Subject: ANN: ActivePython 2.4c1 is available
Message-ID: <419E82F2.4020203@activestate.com>

ActivePython 2.4c1 is now available from:

     http://www.ActiveState.com/Products/ActivePython

This is a release candidate matching the recently tagged core Python
2.4c1. Builds for Windows, Linux and Solaris are available.

We would welcome any and all feedback to:
     ActivePython-feedback at ActiveState.com
Please file bugs against ActivePython at:
     http://bugs.ActiveState.com/ActivePython


What is ActivePython?
---------------------

ActivePython is ActiveState's quality-assured binary build of Python.
Builds for Windows, Linux and Solaris and made freely available.

ActivePython includes the Python core and core extensions (zlib 1.2.1,
bzip2 1.0.2, bsddb 4.2.52, Tk 8.4.4, and Tix 8.1.4). On Windows,
ActivePython includes the PyWin32 suite of Windows tools developed by
Mark Hammond, including the Pythonwin IDE, bindings to the Win32 API and
Windows COM; and more.

ActivePython also includes a wealth of Python documentation, including:
- the core Python docs;
- Andrew Kuchling's "What's New in Python" series;
- the Non-Programmer's Tutorial for Python;
- Mark Pilgrim's excellent "Dive into Python"; and
- a snapshot of the Python FAQs, HOWTOs and PEPs.

An online version of the docs can be found here:
     http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/docs/ActivePython/2.4/welcome.html

Thanks, and enjoy!

Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
trentm at activestate.com





From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Fri Nov  5 17:11:04 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 17:11:04 -0500
Subject: xml.dom.minidom appendChild/toxml formatting problem
In-Reply-To: <6471d296.0411051330.1477041@posting.google.com>
References: <6471d296.0411051330.1477041@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <418BFA78.3050108@bellsouth.net>

Ray wrote:

>I have put together some pretty simple code for adding and removing
>elements from an XML file, but am having a problem with toxml writing
>out the correct format after I have called appendChild on a node.
>
>Here is a snippet:
>
>if (action == 'add'):
>   newCluster = domi.createElement(elementType)
>   newCluster.setAttribute("Name", elementName)
>   elem.appendChild(newCluster)
>else:
>   elem.removeChild(childElem)
>
>domi.normalize()
>
>
>  
>
<snip>

>Or, if I append "RAYTEST3" to "RAYTEST", it comes out as:
><Cluster Name="RAYTEST">
>   <Cluster Name="RAYTEST2"/>
><Cluster Name="RAYTEST3"/></Cluster>
>
>Instead of:
><Cluster Name="RAYTEST">
>   <Cluster Name="RAYTEST2"/>
>   <Cluster Name="RAYTEST3"/>
></Cluster>
>
>
>The rest of the XML file retains its original whitespace and
>linebreaks.  How can I get this to format the new changes correctly? 
>Calling toprettyxml instead of toxml seems to double the whitespace
>and linebreaks in the rest of the file.
>  
>
I'd like to offer you a more automated method, but I can't.  Perhaps 
someone else can.  The only way I can think of to do it is to see what 
kind of text nodes exist around where you are inserting your elements 
and get that for formatting and insert similar text nodes before you 
insert your elements.

Just out of curiosity, why are you interested in preserving the 
whitespace?  Is this going to be something that is human read rather 
than machine read (or human read in addition to machine read)?


Jeremy Jones



From FRANKABEL at tesla.cujae.edu.cu  Sun Nov  7 12:31:28 2004
From: FRANKABEL at tesla.cujae.edu.cu (Frank Abel Cancio Bello)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 13:31:28 -0400
Subject: About mhtml
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200411071331.AA31280779@tesla.cujae.edu.cu>

Hi all!
I need to make a cgi in python that send mhtml instead of html to client web
browser. With Internet Explorer I save a .mhtm file and then build the
following python script. But this not work. Some suggestion?. All I
need is an example.

print """Content-Type: multipart/related; 
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01C4C4CB.1CCA6D50"; type="text/html"

------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C4C4CB.1CCA6D50
Content-Type: text/html;
 charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Location:
file://C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\temp\Desktop\test.html

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1252">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.3790.218" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY><IMG=20
src=3D"file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/temp/Desktop/test.png"></BOD=
Y></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C4C4CB.1CCA6D50
Content-Type: image/png
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Location:
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/temp/Desktop/test.png

iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACIAAAAjCAIAAAB+eU8wAAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAAARnQU1BAACx
jwv8YQUAAAAgY0hSTQAAeiYAAICEAAD6AAAAgOgAAHUwAADqYAAAOpgAABdwnLpRPAAAAKJJREFU
SEvtVtEOgCAItP//aLM53Q1QkRkPBeuhDDvuDrUrpZxcosA4XB4Yj2AOVALGJnJ4Y9CNiZbPBayW
v8AUyvoQk1WiecD0Qioh8khG+FsyS9g6u1CdDdKq9/MR/EKrYNxpCIMbOVbKa0I797yZmCQytrMh
VR8WjevGKxU13GgB/aIZZaq8+QTMOz8hcXqeOD3Dm3UfrTMMTvApAbMt4w1iaNSBMh1elwAAAABJ
RU5ErkJggg==

------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C4C4CB.1CCA6D50--


"""
__________________________________________

Aniversario 40 de la CUJAE
 
Visite:
 
XII Convencion de Ingenieria y Arquitectura
http://www.cujae.edu.cu/eventos/convencion/
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From pfalcone at localhost.localdomain  Sat Nov 27 19:43:19 2004
From: pfalcone at localhost.localdomain (Paolo Alexis Falcone)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 08:43:19 +0800
Subject: I Need a Python Mentor
References: <co4lkl$8i9$1@news.swman.net.uk>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.28.00.43.09.906242@localhost.localdomain>

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 13:07:30 +0000, abhay wrote:

> Hi,
> I have just ended learning to program in Python using the book "Programming
> in Python" by Mark Lutz.
> But to my dismay there are no excercises or programming projects in the
> book. I'm seeking for a good programming project to be implemented in
> python. Do you have any projects to share, I'm ready to spend my free time
> over it to learn the best.
> 
There are other books on Python that have quite served me well, such as
"Dive into Python" by Mark Pilgrim, "Think in Python" by Bruce Eckel, and
"How to Think Like a Computer Scientist: Learning with Python" by Allen B.
Downey, Jeffrey Elkner and Chris Meyers.

Would you care to have a shot for an open source statistical package using
Python? Currently I have CVS access to the salstat project
(salstat.sourceforge.net). Of course, there are other projects that are
very interesting to do in Python (I'm building an open source ERP using
Zope + CMF + ERP5, and all of them ultimately boil down to Python).

-- 


Paolo Alexis Falcone
pfalcone at free.net.ph



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  4 16:00:33 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 22:00:33 +0100
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com> <2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10oim483n2b7r7f@corp.supernews.com>
	<cmd73m$k1o$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5917.1099587748.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gmqy8k.b4isct1okot00N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> I wonder what people think about Ruby, which, I understand, does allow you to
> modify builtins.  Can anyone tell me if you could make Ruby strings do the
> horrible coercion that PHP strings do?

Yes, you could.  Reliable Ruby friends tell me that's not DONE in the
real world of Ruby, any more than pythonistas call their methods' first
argument 'foo' rather than 'self' or pepper their code with 'exec'
statements or code 200-chars nested-lambda oneliners.  But though
culturally frowned on, it _is_ technically possible.

The one real example I saw, which was enough to turn me off my quest to
explore Ruby for production purposes, was making (builtin) string
comparisons case-insensitive -- apparently that _IS_ the kind of thing
_SOME_ perhaps-inexperienced Rubystas _DO_ perpetrate (breaking library
modules left, right, and center, of course).  Maybe it's similar to
rather inexperienced Pythonistas dead keen on "exec myname+'='+value"; I
_have_ seen that horror perpetrated in real Python code (doesn't break
any library, but slows function execution down by 10 times w/o any real
advantage wrt dicts or bunch usage, and is a bug-prone piece too...).


Alex


From alexs at advfn.com  Thu Nov 25 04:35:24 2004
From: alexs at advfn.com (Alex Stapleton)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 09:35:24 +0000
Subject: XUL Parser?
In-Reply-To: <1101324939.28137.0.camel@odin>
References: <41A4B77C.3010703@advfn.com> <1101324939.28137.0.camel@odin>
Message-ID: <41A5A75C.4040603@advfn.com>


A.M. Kuchling wrote:
 > I'm not aware of any.  Considering that there's no real XUL
 > specification,
 > implementing a XUL renderer would be difficult.  Note that Luxor
 > implements its own format, also called XUL, that has nothing to do
 > with the XUL
 > implemented by Mozilla.
 >
 > --amk

I'm not sure a spec is really required as long as it remains mostly 
compatible with Mozilla, and primarily the XUL Tutorial examples. We can 
always help work towards a standard spec, which XUL 1.0 is supposed to 
be, but thats current non-existent.

Andrew James wrote:
> Alex,
> This is a very cool idea. I've been working with XUL for a little while
> now and I'd like to be able to work with it in Python.... all steam
> ahead!
> 
> Andrew

Andrew, is that an offer of help? Either in consultancy or in programming :)

I have a lot of ideas for what i've started calling PyXUL I think it 
could make Pythons already fairly awesome GUI making facilities even 
more so. I've created a SourceForge project (called PyXUL) and will try 
and get an initial design up this weekend in one format or another.


From steve at ferg.org  Thu Nov  4 09:25:08 2004
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 06:25:08 -0800
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
	<du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<4187b7a1$0$2383$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<QtOdnVh_Pq7-SRrcRVn-2g@speakeasy.net>
	<b16e4ef7.0411030604.603069ea@posting.google.com>
	<QcOdna8ftb0dYBXcRVn-rQ@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0411040625.84f3a6a@posting.google.com>

> I suggest you present your proposal to the PSF; I suppose
> the Board would be the group that would consider it.

I agree.  

I attempted to post it to the grants-discuss list, but was turned
down.

"Interesting discussion, but I don't think the grants-discuss list is
the right place for it."


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Nov 30 14:03:56 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:03:56 -0500
Subject: date diff calc
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6935.1101829784.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <K_-dnRIyHJPs_DbcRVn-jg@is.co.za>	<16811.29264.547058.669652@montanaro.dyndns.org>	<mailman.6899.1101784379.5135.python-list@python.org>	<coi1vh$rkv$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<mailman.6935.1101829784.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <coig5s$114$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Tim Peters wrote:
> [Peter Hansen]
>>I think Skip was intending that the format string be mandatory,
>>to avoid such ambiguity.  
> 
> It's still a bottomless pit -- ask Brett, who implemented the Python
> strptime <wink>.  

True, I did overlook timezones at the time.

On the other hand, that's because *my* use cases for "simple"
fromstring() behaviour are all involving local time.  When
I'm interested in non-local time, I would be happy having
to specify that behaviour in a more complex manner.

> OTOH, is that what people really want?  For all I know,
> rfc822.getdate() or rfc822.getdate_tz() are what's really wanted, or
> maybe some DWIM thing like Zope's date guessers.

To each his own, although I think there's a hope here that
for those who might need/want a really simple solution,
95% of people have this in mind (pseudo-code):

class datetime.date:
     def fromstring(format, string):
         ts = time.mktime(time.strptime(string, format))
         return datetime.date.fromtimestamp(ts)

The .fromtimestamp() methods already work only for local
time, and I haven't heard anyone complaining about that
either.  (Hmm... haven't been listening either though. :-)

-Peter


From drew at gremlinhosting.com  Wed Nov 24 14:35:39 2004
From: drew at gremlinhosting.com (Andrew James)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:35:39 +0000
Subject: XUL Parser?
In-Reply-To: <41A4B77C.3010703@advfn.com>
References: <41A4B77C.3010703@advfn.com>
Message-ID: <1101324939.28137.0.camel@odin>

Alex,
This is a very cool idea. I've been working with XUL for a little while
now and I'd like to be able to work with it in Python.... all steam
ahead!

Andrew

On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 16:31 +0000, Alex Stapleton wrote:
> Is there a Python XUL parser which will create GUIs in a Mozilla like 
> fashion for me? I've had a poke around but the closest I could find was 
> Luxor, and thats Jython bound (which isn't feasible.)
> 
> If not is anyone interested in helping design and implment one? I'm 
> rather keen on seeing a python XUL module which supports multiple widget 
> systems (wxPython, Qt , GTK+ etc)
-- 
Andrew James <drew at gremlinhosting.com>



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Nov  9 11:53:06 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 10:53:06 -0600
Subject: Umlauts, encodings, sitecustomize.py
In-Reply-To: <cmfeqg$l73$1@newshispeed.ch>
References: <cmfeqg$l73$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <20041109165304.GE3567@unpythonic.net>


No matter what you do, you won't change this behavior:
>>> chr(0x84)
'\x84'

str.__repr__ always escapes characters in the range 0..31 and 127..255,
no matter what the locale is.

>>> print chr(0x84)
will behave differently (it will write that byte to standard output,
followed by a newline)

You should note that chr(0x84) is *not* a-umlaut in iso-8859-1.  That's
chr(0xe4).  You may be using one of these Windows-specific encodings:
    cp437.py:       0x0084: 0x00e4, # LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
    cp775.py:       0x0084: 0x00e4, # LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
    cp850.py:       0x0084: 0x00e4, # LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
    cp852.py:       0x0084: 0x00e4, # LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
    cp857.py:       0x0084: 0x00e4, # LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
    cp861.py:       0x0084: 0x00e4, # LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
    cp865.py:       0x0084: 0x00e4, # LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS

Jeff
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From manu.1982 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 02:44:32 2004
From: manu.1982 at gmail.com (Manu)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 23:44:32 -0800
Subject: Building a word list from multiple files
Message-ID: <c644fe86.0411172344.6d6356d9@posting.google.com>

Hi,

Here's what i want to accomplish.
I want to make a list of frequenctly occuring words in a group of
files along with the no of occurances of each
The brute force method will be to read the file as a string,split,load
the words
into a dict with  words as key and no of occurances as key.
Load the next file ,iterate through the new words increment the value
if there is
a match or add a new key,value pair if there is none.
repeat for all files.

is there a better way ??

 
Thanks in advance.
Manu


From dthierbach at gmx.de  Thu Nov 11 16:35:01 2004
From: dthierbach at gmx.de (Dirk Thierbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:35:01 +0100
Subject: distutils and Debian
References: <4192AD69.5040707@sympatico.ca>
	<slrncp5cf6.v8.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<qeGdnUA1FNXrJw_cRVn-oA@giganews.com> <cmuf87$fm5$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<1UKkd.32427$km5.1574845@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<cn006r$1om$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<xiOkd.41802$km5.1658609@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <20041111213501.F5E.2.NOFFLE@ID-7776.user.dfncis.de>

Colin J. Williams <cjw at sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Robert Kern wrote:

>> Why are you trying to install distutils over the one provided by 
>> python-dev? It's probably not a good idea.
> I am doing this because there is no distutils in the Debian packages for 
> Python2.3.4 or Python 2.3.4-dev.

$ dpkg -l python2.3-dev
...
ii  python2.3-dev  2.3.4-5        Header files and a static library for Python


$ dpkg -L python2.3-dev 
...
/usr/lib/python2.3/distutils/README
/usr/lib/python2.3/distutils/__init__.py
...

So either there's something strange with your version of the package
(download a new one), or you didn't look carefully enough.

- Dirk



From rtilley at vt.edu  Sun Nov  7 20:02:24 2004
From: rtilley at vt.edu (Brad Tilley)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 20:02:24 -0500
Subject: Stop spaces from appearing when printing to file
Message-ID: <cmmgiu$id5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

I'm printing some info into a txt file that will be uploaded into a 
MySQL DB. I use ';' as field separaters. How can I stop spaces from 
appearing on both sides of the ';'

When I do this:

print >> x,';',object,";",AN_string,";",ascii,";",sum

My file looks like this:

;12345 ; 23456 ; [1,2,3,4,5] ; 15

I need it to look like this to make the DB happy:

;12345;23456;[1,2,3,4,5];15


From someone at microsoft.com  Tue Nov 23 18:19:33 2004
From: someone at microsoft.com (Jive)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 23:19:33 GMT
Subject: Python 2.4 and Visual C++ Express
References: <XQfod.15475$3u6.726077@wagner.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <9APod.4998157$ic1.468025@news.easynews.com>

Are you saying that Python 2.4 will not compile under MS VC++ 6.0?  That's
horrifying.  Say it isn't so!!!  I have just ported Python to an embedded
system using VC++ 6.0.  It will always be compiled using 6.0, for two
reasons: 1) I cannot afford the manhours for changing compilers, and 2) Bill
Gates has enough money already, alright?  I would hate to think that I am
now stuck at Python 2.3 for eternity.

"Steve Menard" <foo at bar.com> wrote in message
news:XQfod.15475$3u6.726077 at wagner.videotron.net...
> I will soon have to write start providing Python extensions, in binary
> form, for python 2.4, and I have a few questions.
>
> I have Visual C++ 6 installed, which works great for python 2.3.
>
> I do not have access to Visual C++ 2003, which seems to be the compiler
> to be used with Python 2.4. Unless I am mistaken, the free command-line
> compiler is not a solution, as it cannot produce binaries that
> dynamically link the C runtime.
>
> I have downloaded the Visual C++ 2004 "express" from the Microsoft.site.
>
> Now my question is, will I be able to compile Python 2.4 extension if I
> use the Visual C++ 2004? And since I will be distributing the extension
> for both Python 2.3 and 2.4, will distutil choose the right compiler ?
>
> Before some people mention MingW and Cygnus, I know and use them.
> However, for redistributing I feel it safer to use the Microsoft
compilers.
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Steve




From dave.benjamin at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 23:39:32 2004
From: dave.benjamin at gmail.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 21:39:32 -0700
Subject: dijkstra algorithm by object oriented
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5905.1099569824.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5905.1099569824.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0pDid.79281$bk1.18493@fed1read05>

Ricardo Batista wrote:
> I need that someone help me.

No, you need to do your own work like everybody else.

> I need to program the dijkstra algorithm by object oriented.

No, you don't, and you should tell your professor to unsubscribe from 
silver-bullet OO hype and realize that OO has little to add to 
mathematical problems like this.

Dijkstra must be rolling in his grave.

Dave


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Nov 21 16:11:25 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:11:25 -0500
Subject: ftplib callbacks
In-Reply-To: <u0d1q0pqpr4vk9jg499mpnk2idf6ep8h8m@4ax.com>
References: <u0d1q0pqpr4vk9jg499mpnk2idf6ep8h8m@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Hx7od.1766$QR.203@lakeread01>

Matija Papec wrote:

> I would like to reimplement ftplib "nlst" using ftplib.dir (ftp server
> doesn't support nlst) so I'm trying to guess how to use ftp callbacks.
> Any help is appreciated.
> tia!
> 
> ============
> #!/usr/bin/python
> 
> # nlst vs list
> 
> import pprint
> pp = pprint.PrettyPrinter(indent=4)
> 
> import ftplib
> 
> def myfilter(line):
>         return line
> 
> ftp = ftplib.FTP("localhost")
> ftp.login("mpapec", "island88")
> #print ftp.retrlines("LIST")
> dir = ftp.dir("", myfilter)
> print dir
> 
> 
The callback is called each time the FTP client softwrae has something 
to deal with. Try (untested):

lines = []

def myfilter(line):
     global lines
     lines.append(line)

with the remainder of your code unchanged. The lines list will then 
contain a list of all lines.

The problem with your current callback is that its return value is 
ignored by the FTP module that calls it.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  6 16:19:50 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 16:19:50 -0500
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5997.1099739459.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<418C7DCB.60502@acm.org>
	<mailman.5997.1099739459.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418d3f0b$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

I rarely find myself acting as an apologist for Java, and I understand 
that the point Alex is making is that Python's performance for this 
operation is quite good, and that the OP should post some code, but this 
is really too unfair a comparison for me not to say something.

There are two major differences between these two programs:
- The Java version is doing a character by character copy; the Python 
program reads the entire file into a buffer in one operation.
- The Java program is converting the entire file to and from Unicode; 
the Python program is copying the literal bytes.

Here is a much more comparable Java program (that will fail if the file 
size is over 2^31-1):

import java.io.*;

public class Copy {
     public static void main(String[] args) throws IOException {
         File inputFile = new File("/usr/share/dict/web2");
         int bufferSize = (int)inputFile.length();
         File outputFile = new File("/tmp/acopy");

         FileInputStream in = new FileInputStream(inputFile);
         FileOutputStream out = new FileOutputStream(outputFile);

         byte buffer[] = new byte[bufferSize];
         int len=bufferSize;

         while (true)
         {
             len=in.read(buffer,0,bufferSize);
             if (len<0 )
                 break;
             out.write(buffer,0,len);
         }

         in.close();
         out.close();
     }
}

Here are the results I get with this program and Alex's Python program 
on my G4-400 Mac:
kent% time java Copy
0.440u 0.320s 0:00.96 79.1%     0+0k 9+3io 0pf+0w
kent% time python Copy.py
0.100u 0.120s 0:00.31 70.9%     0+0k 2+4io 0pf+0w

The Python program is still substantially faster (3x), but with nowhere 
near the margin Alex saw.

Kent

Alex Martelli wrote:
> OK, could you provide a simple toy example that meets these conditions 
> -- does lot of identical disk-intensive I/O "in batch" -- and the 
> execution speed measured (and on what platform) for what Python and Java 
> implementations, please?
> 
> For example, taking a trivial Copy.java from somewhere on the net:
> 
> import java.io.*;
> 
> public class Copy {
>     public static void main(String[] args) throws IOException {
>         File inputFile = new File("/usr/share/dict/web2");
>         File outputFile = new File("/tmp/acopy");
> 
>         FileReader in = new FileReader(inputFile);
>         FileWriter out = new FileWriter(outputFile);
>         int c;
> 
>         while ((c = in.read()) != -1)
>            out.write(c);
> 
>         in.close();
>         out.close();
>     }
> }
> 
> and I observe (on an iBook 800, MacOSX 10.3.5):
> 
> kallisti:~ alex$ java -version
> java version "1.4.2_05"
> Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.4.2_05-141.3)
> Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.4.2-38, mixed mode)
> 
> -r--r--r--  1 root  wheel  2486825 12 Sep  2003 /usr/share/dict/web2
> 
> kallisti:~ alex$ time java Copy
> 
> real    0m7.058s
> user    0m5.820s
> sys     0m0.390s
> 
> versus:
> 
> kallisti:~ alex$ time python2.4 Copy.py
> 
> real    0m0.296s
> user    0m0.080s
> sys     0m0.170s
> 
> with Python 2.4 beta 1 for the roughly equivalent:
> 
> inputFile = file("/usr/share/dict/web2", 'r')
> outputFile = file("/tmp/acopy", 'w')
> 
> outputFile.write(inputFile.read())
> 
> inputFile.close()
> outputFile.close()
> 
> which isn't all that far from highly optimized system commands:
> 
> kallisti:~ alex$ time cp /usr/share/dict/web2 /tmp/acopy
> 
> real    0m0.167s
> user    0m0.000s
> sys     0m0.040s
> 
> kallisti:~ alex$ time cat /usr/share/dict/web2 >/tmp/acopy
> 
> real    0m0.149s
> user    0m0.000s
> sys     0m0.090s
> 
> 
> I'm sure the Java version can be optimized easily, too -- I just grabbed 
> the first thing I saw off the net.  But surely this example doesn't 
> point to any big performance issue with Python disk I/O wrt Java.  So, 
> unless you post concrete examples yourself, the smallest the better, 
> it's going to be pretty difficult to understand where your doubts are 
> coming from!
> 
> 
> Alex
> 


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 19:00:59 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 19:00:59 -0500
Subject: Rationals?
In-Reply-To: <x7y8gzkpii.fsf@guru.mired.org>
References: <x73bz7na6r.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<mailman.6526.1100749612.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<x7y8gzkpii.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1f7befae041118160013cb18cc@mail.gmail.com>

[Tim Peters]
>> ...
>> There's a better implementation in the Python sandbox:
>>
>> <http://cvs.sf.net/viewcvs.py/python/python/nondist/sandbox/rational>

[Mike Meyer]
> Cool. I knew there had to be some out there, but couldn't find one in
> either PyPI or the cookbook. I picked on Rat.py because it was what I
> found.

...

> Actually, I don't like the two PEPs. Both include changes to the
> language that would surprise programmers and non-programmers as
> well as having a negative impact on performance. You should only
> get a rational if you specifically ask for a rational.

Not true of PEP 239.  The only specific thing it proposes is adding a
rational() constructor to the builtins, of course backed by a new
rational type.  Some *possible* interactions with the rest of the
language are briefly discussed in its "open issues" section.

...

>> PS:  If you simply want to *use* a high-powered rational type,
>> download gmpy and be happy tonight.

> No - it's that rationals are available in a number of other
> programming languages I use, and it seems strange that they would be
> missing from a language that comes with "batteries included".
>
> And yes, I am willing to do this work. But don't want to bother if
> there's no chance of it getting into the standard library. Creating
> yet another rational package outisde the standard library is pretty
> pointless.

If you want to use rationals in Python, gmpy is a fine way to do it today.

There's always been some interest in adding rationals to the core, but
I wouldn't say "a lot".  There was a lot more interest in adding a
decimal type to the core, and the first version of that is being
released in Python 2.4 this year.  Since the decimal type supports
user-settable precision, it can handle exact decimal-fraction + - *
operations within the bounds of the precision set, and "gracefully"
lose precision when that bound is crossed.

Many arguments in favor of rationals have been made over the last
decade, but it's unclear how many will still be made after the decimal
type becomes familiar.  For example, the historically common argument
that rationals would support exact addition of dollars-and-cents
values will lose all force.  The less common argument that it's
somehow obscene <wink> not to have a type for which 1/x*x == 1 will
still hold.

In any case, if you don't like the existing rational PEPs (which isn't
hard to understand ...), the best hope to get rationals into the core
is to ask Guido to reject the current dead-in-the-water PEPs, and
start a new alternative PEP.  I suspect you assume that adding a
library module would be exempt from the PEP process, but that's not
so.  The most relevant example is that 2.4's decimal module is a pure
Python module, and absolutely nothing in the rest of the language
changed to accommodate it -- it didn't even get a builtin constructor.
 That may change over time, but its PEP was only "selling" the Python
module we now have.


From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Tue Nov 16 11:23:53 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:23:53 -0300
Subject: using python with -c (as a inline execution in shell)
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7BE9@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[les_ander at yahoo.com]

#- but suppose I want to read from the stdin (piped) i don't 
#- know how to do this since
#- python -c "from sys import stdin; for x in stdin: print x"
#- 
#- gives a syntax error.
#- 
#- Anyone one know how to do this?

What are you trying to achieve? Are you sure this is the best way?

.	Facundo
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From square690410 at yahoo.com.tw  Wed Nov  3 05:20:14 2004
From: square690410 at yahoo.com.tw (Leon)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 18:20:14 +0800
Subject: how to count server response time from client ??
References: <cma9fb$kru$1@netnews.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <cmabe8$4mn$1@netnews.hinet.net>

.....in not use NTP(network time protocol) Protocols,do it
"Leon" <square690410 at yahoo.com.tw> ???g???l???s?D:cma9fb$kru$1 at netnews.hinet.net...
>I want to write a web test tool(HTTP Protocols)
> I use header 'Date' do obtin server response time
> but client and server time clock is different
> how to count server and client time clock  interval or discrepancy
> Can obtin server receive time ????
>
> thank everybody...
> 




From sean_mcilroy at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 23 13:51:56 2004
From: sean_mcilroy at yahoo.com (Sean McIlroy)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 10:51:56 -0800
Subject: drag and drop graphics in tkinter?
References: <e5063e96.0411221615.2741def4@posting.google.com>
	<41a2fb94$0$8155$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <e5063e96.0411231051.56728243@posting.google.com>

Eric Brunel <eric_brunel at despammed.com> wrote in message news:<41a2fb94$0$8155$8fcfb975 at news.wanadoo.fr>...

> I'm not quite sure I understand your question: drag and drop between what and 
> what?

I'm looking for a way to use drag-and-dropping to pick up a graphic
and move it from one place to another. For example, I thought I could
get my feet wet by writing a script to represent small graphs (in the
nodes-and-vertices sense) as collections of dots and lines onscreen.
Moving the the dots around (while maintaining line-indicated
connections between dots) could furnish a graphical way of
investigating questions like planarity and isomorphism.


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Nov  5 09:25:11 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 15:25:11 +0100
Subject: Simple thread pools
References: <418A4900.7020304@debpro.webcom.dk>	<20041104102722.F815.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<mailman.5957.1099646551.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmfs68$9vc$02$2@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5964.1099663362.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmg2g5$j92$00$1@news.t-online.com>

> I need to download 150000 files several times every day.
> How would you solve that?

How do you download them? http, ftp? What sizes, filetypes? Can they be
packed beforehand? Do you even have enough bandwitdth? From how many
servers do you query them?

As you can see, there are more than a few questions - so how about
elaborating a bit on the task you have to accomplish?


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sat Nov 20 18:27:59 2004
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 20 Nov 2004 15:27:59 -0800
Subject: instant messenging
References: <s9und.4018$Qh3.1971@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<cnmdgr$sl8$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0411201527.62a1b726@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<cnmdgr$sl8$1 at utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>...
> Lucas Raab wrote:
> > Are there any instant messenging programs out there for use in a Python 
> > app?? I've heard of Jabber, but never looke into it.
> 
> Maybe try Googling for "python instant messenging"?  I note that
> in the first page of results there are at least two Python
> modules for the Jabber protocol...
> 
> -Peter

And for even more results, try Googling for "python instant messaging". 

[OT]
Aarrgghh!! What's happening to the language?


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Nov 14 21:33:31 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:33:31 -0500
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <pM2dnc8i1JpejAXcRVn-uQ@giganews.com>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<boKdncuh1ZBxbgrcRVn-gA@giganews.com>
	<L0Tld.2114$nj.1155@lakeread01>
	<pM2dnc8i1JpejAXcRVn-uQ@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <%FUld.2118$nj.1676@lakeread01>

Istvan Albert wrote:

> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>> You managed to get it to run? I found the whole load opaque beyond 
>> belief, and removed it after an hour's examination.
> 
> 
> I had no problems whatsoever ... on the other hand I
> been using Zope 2.7 for a more than a year so
> that might have helped me.
> 
> In Zope X3 they make a big deal out of interfaces,
> everything seems to revolve around that.
> 
> http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/Zope3Book/interfaces.html 
> 
> 
> then I looked at this,
> 
> http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/FrontPage/Zope3Book 
> 
> 
> totally overwhelming. But I have confidence in
> the Zope developers. I have had good experience with Zope
> in general, did not let me down yet ... in the way
> a few years back for example Tomcat would crash
> if one set a cookie value that had a newline character
> in it.
> 
> 
Well indeed, the developers are a bunch of smart cookies (no pun 
intended). But I still await a comprehensible description of how the 
whole system works for 2.7, let alone X3 - how to put sites together, 
and the best way to achieve various results, and so on.

Searching for information about Zope is a nightmare of broken links and 
outdated content that makes it difficult to find one's way through to 
the really useful stuff.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From usenet04q3 at hczim.de  Tue Nov 30 08:25:54 2004
From: usenet04q3 at hczim.de (Heike C. Zimmerer)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:25:54 +0100
Subject: pdb with emacs
References: <10qms9e7rgrhn42@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <313aojF37djsrU1@uni-berlin.de>

"Yuri Shtil" <yshtil at synopsys.com> writes:

> I am trying to learn python and use the gud/pdb from emacs. The
> functionality that I am used to under gud/gdb and gud/perldb is missing, or
> I don't know how to make it work.
> Specifically: when I start pdb on a script file, the source does not show in
> an another window as it does with perldb and gdb. If I bring it up in an
> another window,

Your source will show up when you step into your program, e.g. by
doing an "S" pdb command.

> the ^X SPC set a break, but the subsequent gud-next commands do not move the
> execution cursor in the source file window.

I never use gud's commands while in pdb mode because they didn't work
- at least not as I expected - and I've already been familiar with pdb
syntax.  You'd better use pdb commands in its debugger window.


Greetings,

 Heike


From drew at gremlinhosting.com  Thu Nov 18 04:00:32 2004
From: drew at gremlinhosting.com (Andrew James)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:00:32 +0000
Subject: TPG error when using 't' as the first letter of a token
Message-ID: <1100768432.27722.4.camel@odin>

Gentlemen,

I'm running into a problem whilst testing the parsing of a language I've
created with TPG . It seems that for some reason, TPG balks when I try
to parse an expression whose first letter is 't' (or, in fact, at any
time when 't' is at the beginning of a token). This doesn't happen with
any other letter (as far as I know), nor if the 'T' is capitalised.

My grammar looks like this:

    # Tokens
    separator space '\s+';
    token Num '\d+(.\d+)?';
    token Ident '[a-zA-Z]\w*';
    token CharList '\'.*\'';
    token CatUnOp '~';
    token CatOp '[/\^~]';
    token MetaOp '[=\+\-!]';
    token Date '\d\d-\d\d-\d\d\d\d';
    token FileID '(\w+\.\w+)'
    ;
    # Rules
    START -> CatExpr '\?' '[' MetaExpr ']'
    | CatExpr
    | FileID
    ;
    CatExpr -> CatUnOp CatName
    | CatName (CatOp CatName)*
    | CatName
    ;   
    CatName -> Ident
    #| '(' CatExpr ')'
    ;
    MetaExpr -> MetaCrit (',' MetaCrit)*
    ;
    MetaCrit -> Ident MetaOp Value
    ;
    Value -> CharList | Num | Date
    ;

My test script like this:

if __name__ == '__main__':
    """ For testing purposes only """
    parseTests = ('This/is/a/simple/test', 'another/simple/test',
"a/test/with/[author='drew']")
    for line in parseTests:
        try:
            print "\nParsing: %s \n%s\n" % (line,"="*(len(line)+9))
            qp = MFQueryParser()
            print qp(line)
        except Exception, inst:
                print "EXCEPTION: " + str(inst)

The output when using a letter which is not 't':

Parsing: another/simple/test 
============================

[  1][ 2]START.CatExpr: (1,1) Ident another != CatUnOp
[  2][ 3]START.CatExpr.CatName: (1,1) Ident another == Ident
[  3][ 2]START.CatExpr: (1,8) CatOp / == CatOp
[  4][ 3]START.CatExpr.CatName: (1,9) Ident simple == Ident
[  5][ 2]START.CatExpr: (1,15) CatOp / == CatOp
[  6][ 3]START.CatExpr.CatName: (1,16) _tok_2 t != Ident
[  7][ 1]START: (1,15) CatOp / != _tok_1
[  8][ 2]START.CatExpr: (1,1) Ident another != CatUnOp
[  9][ 3]START.CatExpr.CatName: (1,1) Ident another == Ident
[ 10][ 2]START.CatExpr: (1,8) CatOp / == CatOp
[ 11][ 3]START.CatExpr.CatName: (1,9) Ident simple == Ident
[ 12][ 2]START.CatExpr: (1,15) CatOp / == CatOp
[ 13][ 3]START.CatExpr.CatName: (1,16) _tok_2 t != Ident
EXCEPTION: SyntacticError at line 1, row 16: Syntax error near t

The output when using 't' as the first letter:

Parsing: tanother/simple/test 
=============================

[  1][ 2]START.CatExpr: (1,1) _tok_2 t != CatUnOp
[  2][ 3]START.CatExpr.CatName: (1,1) _tok_2 t != Ident
[  3][ 3]START.CatExpr.CatName: (1,1) _tok_2 t != Ident
[  4][ 2]START.CatExpr: (1,1) _tok_2 t != CatUnOp
[  5][ 3]START.CatExpr.CatName: (1,1) _tok_2 t != Ident
[  6][ 3]START.CatExpr.CatName: (1,1) _tok_2 t != Ident
[  7][ 1]START: (1,1) _tok_2 t != FileID
EXCEPTION: SyntacticError at line 1, row 1: Syntax error near t


I'm not sure whether this is something I'm doing wrong in my regular
expressions or whether something is being escaped in the TPG code, or
whether.... I just don't know!

I'm going through the TPG code at the moment but am not very hopeful of
finding the problem. Could  someone possibly just let me know if I've
made an obvious mistake somewhere?

Many thanks,
Andrew




From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Mon Nov 22 11:33:37 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:33:37 -0800
Subject: Wrapping a C library in Python
References: <roy-99F088.20103518112004@reader1.panix.com>
	<e253918f.0411190823.25921d6b@posting.google.com>
	<roy-2665D7.13444420112004@reader1.panix.com>
	<hdnip9ey.fsf@python.net>
	<roy-24C5BE.07565522112004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <bfh972-7o1.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>


"Roy Smith" <roy at panix.com> wrote in message news:roy-24C5BE.07565522112004 at reader1.panix.com...
> Since the handle is opaque, I don't need to know about the innards of
> the structure at all.  What I ended up doing was writing a little C
> routine something like this:
>
> dm_handle *allocate_dm_handle ()
> {
>   return malloc (sizeof (struct dm_handle));
> }
>
> I then built a .so containing just that one routine, and used ctypes to
> call it from Python to get my buffer.

Congralutions on just manually re-inventing Swig :-)  Unless your
library is trivial (which this code indicates it is not), I would
recommend also spending a little time with Swig.

In many cases Swig can parse your header files and build the
correct wrapper.  The huge advantage of Swig is that you can
use it to generate wrappers for a large number of languages.
That comes in really helpful if you will also need wrappers for
Java, TCL etc.

Roger 




From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Thu Nov 18 21:13:15 2004
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 18:13:15 -0800
Subject: regex-strategy for finding *similar* words?
References: <1100774319.18258.249.camel@bucket.localnet>
	<mailman.6541.1100780393.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cni5mo$d12$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0411181813.57769139@posting.google.com>

Peter Maas <peter at somewhere.com> wrote in message news:<cni5mo$d12$1 at swifty.westend.com>...
> Christoph Pingel schrieb:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > an interesting problem for regex nerds.
> > I've got a thesaurus of some hundred words and a moderately large 
> > dataset of about 1 million words in some thousand small texts. Words 
> > from the thesaurus appear at many places in my texts, but they are often 
> > misspelled, just slightly different from the thesaurus.
> 
> You could set up a list of misspelling cases, scan a word for it e.g.
> citti and turn it into a regex by applying suitable misspelling cases
> But this is cumbersome. It is probably better to use a string distance
> defined by the least number of operations (add,delete, replace, exchange)
> to map one string onto another.
> 
> Search for '"Levenshtein distance" python' and find e.g.
> 
> http://trific.ath.cx/resources/python/levenshtein/

Forget regexes. A string distance function is a helpful start. Firstly
you need a method of parsing your input text into words or phrases.
Secondly you need a fuzzy dictionary into which you load your
thesaurus. This fuzzy dictionary will have a method like
fuzzy_dict.approx_lookup('mispeled', 2) which would return you a list
of words in the dictionary that had a (say) Levenshtein distance of 2
or less from your input word. Algorithms for fuzzy dictionaries:
google for "Burkhard Keller tree" and "permuted lexicon".
Alternatively you could look for a spelling checker with publicly
available source and grab some ideas or even code. You might be
interested in other string distance measures than Levenshtein distance
e.g. the so-called Damerau distance which counts transpositions. There
are faster algorithms available than the dynamic-programming one --
google "Heikki Hyyro". These allow you to preprocess your input word
and then compare with multiple dictionary candidates in O(kn) instead
of O(kmn) time where the input word has length m, and you compare with
k dictionary words each of average length n.

HTH,
John


From helten0007 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 23 14:28:13 2004
From: helten0007 at yahoo.com (Pete.....)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:28:13 +0100
Subject: Transfer data from webpage form to database
References: <41a36ab7$0$23056$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net>
	<m33bz05u3p.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
Message-ID: <41a38f13$0$23068$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net>

Hi, yeah It's try I want to change it to a python.cgi.script. And thanks for 
your input.....

I use the api pgsql
So the first thing I do is to import the following and connect to the 
server:

#!/pack/python-2.3.2/bin/python2.3
from pyPgSQL import PgSQL
import cgi
import cgitb
cgitb.enable()

form = cgi.FieldStorage()  ( I added this )
connect = PgSQL.connect(user="vvvvv", password="zzzzz", host="xxx.xxx.xx", 
database="yyyyy")

Do I then have to write:

PgSQL.query(''' INSERT into form
                         Select persons.idpersons, person.username, 
persons.surname, phone.phone  (And so on ) ( its what the specific tables 
are called in my database)
                         From persons, phone                             ( 
And so on )
                         Where persons.name = 'Name'%s
                          AND persons.surname ='Surname'%s
                          AND persons.username = 'Username'%s ''' 
(And so on with the rest)
                           % (form['name'].value, form['surname'].value, 
form['username'].value))

I dont think I get it quite right, any help would be highly appreciated. 
Thanks for all help...


Below is the code from my webpage form:

<form action="default.asp" method="post">
    <p>Name:<br><input type="text" name="name"></p>
    <p>Surname:<br><input type="text" name="surnavn"></p>
    <p>Username:<br><input type="text" name="username"></p>
    <p>Password:<br><input type="text" name="password"></p>
    <p>Adresse:<br><input type="text" name="adresse"></p>
    <p>Zipcode:<br><input type="text" name="zipcode"></p>
    <p>City:<br><input type="text" name="city"></p>
    <p>Phone:<br><input type="text" name="phone"></p
    <p>Mail:<br><input type="text" name="mail"></p>


    <p> What is your profession? <p>
    <INPUT TYPE=CHECKBOX NAME="Profession" VALUE="Student" CHECKED> Student
    <INPUT TYPE=CHECKBOX NAME="Profession" VALUE="Teacher" CHECKED> Teacher
    <INPUT TYPE=CHECKBOX NAME="Profession" VALUE="Teacher Assistent" 
CHECKED> Teacher Assistent
    <p><input type="submit" value="Submit"></p>
</body> </html>'''





From wweston at att.net  Mon Nov 29 13:54:52 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 18:54:52 GMT
Subject: Question on sorting
In-Reply-To: <81a41dd.0411291029.4cff137d@posting.google.com>
References: <81a41dd.0411291029.4cff137d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <0gKqd.72252$7i4.43429@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Lad wrote:
> Hi,
> I have a file of records of 4 fields each.
> Each field is separated by a semicolon. That is
> 
> Filed1;Ffield2;Field3;Field4
> 
> But there may be also empty records such as
> ;;;;
> (only semicolons).
> 
> For sorting I used
> #################
> lines = file('Config.txt').readlines()# a file I want to sort
> lines.sort()
> ff=open('ConfigSorted.txt','w')# sorted file
> ff.writelines(lines)
> ff.close()
> ###############
> It was sorted but empty records were first. I need them to be last(at
> the end of the file). How can I do that?
> 
> Thanks for help
> Lad

Lad,
    The sort call can have a function name as an arg. You
could do:

def mycompare(s1,s2):
#return -1 to put s1's at front; 1 to put s1's at back; 0 for a tie
#if s1==";;;;" and s2<>";;;;": return 1

lines.sort(mycompare)

wes



From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Nov 28 13:35:15 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 19:35:15 +0100
Subject: Psycopg2 mirror availability
In-Reply-To: <m3k6s5kh1l.fsf@g2ctech.com>
References: <mailman.6848.1101650795.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cElqd.26005$zx1.17571@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
	<m3k6s5kh1l.fsf@g2ctech.com>
Message-ID: <20041128183515.GA13896@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Sun, Nov 28, 2004 at 03:41:10PM -0200, Jorge Godoy wrote:
> John Fabiani <jfabiani at yolo.com> writes:
> 
> > I don't think there is a mirror.  I also can confirm that the site appears
> > to be down.
> 
> Oh, I thought it was a problem with my own connection. 

No, I'm waiting for fog's response too, because pysqlite (only Subversion until
now) is also hosted there and I wanted to commit a few changes and make a
release ...

-- Gerhard
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From tz at ingenion.de  Wed Nov 17 06:37:32 2004
From: tz at ingenion.de (Thomas Zehbe)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:37:32 +0100
Subject: Arbitrary errors with c++, python, and simple mapi
Message-ID: <200411171237.32419.tz@ingenion.de>

Hi all,
I?m programming a wxWidgets application using MSVC++ 6.0 on WinXp, SP1, 
reportlab 1.19 and simple mapi.

I programmend python modules, which call the reportlab modules. My python 
modules are called from C++ using the API.
Everything works fine until I did the first call to a function in the 
mapi32.dll. The loading of the dll doesn?t matter, but any call to the mapi, 
i.E. MAPLogon, leads to arbitrary errors calling the Py-API.
Example.
        pDict = PyModule_GetDict(pModule); 
        pFunc = PyDict_GetItemString(pDict, func);
Doing this before a mapi call and calling PyDict_Keys(pDict) returns a list of 
91 keys including the function func. Doing it after a mapi call 
PyDict_Keys(pDict) returns a list of only 15 Keys without the function func.
Doing the calls before and after a mapi call, a callable pFunc is returned in 
both cases, but the pFunc retrieved after the mapi call doesn?t work anymore. 
Calling
         pValue = PyObject_CallObject(pFunc, pArgs);
returns 0x0 and no pdf file is generated.

Seems that  the MS dlls are peeking and poking around in the python 
interpreter memory.

Has anybody seen this happen, too? How can I debug it. All print statements 
from within the python modules seem to go to /dev/null, as do
            if (pErr = PyErr_Occurred())
                PyErr_Print();
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Thomas
-- 
Thomas Zehbe

INGENION GmbH
Luther Weg 50
31515 Wunstorf

Tel 05031-902042
Fax 05031-902049
www.ingenion.de



From belred1 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 18 09:21:58 2004
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:21:58 GMT
Subject: Named tuples
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6546.1100786294.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>	<1gnf6b7.nnqkns1c991f3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.6520.1100738474.5135.python-list@python.org>	<10pntj5m0spvl3f@corp.supernews.com>	<mailman.6521.1100740991.5135.python-list@python.org>	<hcUmd.520265$mD.141102@attbi_s02>
	<419c20da.344317031@news.oz.net>	<k3Wmd.45854$V41.9126@attbi_s52>	<mailman.6539.1100779323.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Xns95A58409D7845duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<mailman.6546.1100786294.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ae2nd.626884$8_6.188811@attbi_s04>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> On 18 Nov 2004 12:58:49 GMT, Duncan Booth <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
>>Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>There are a few requirements that can be imposed to avoid problems.
>>>First, __names__ is clearly a property, acessed via get & set (which
>>>allows to trap some errors). It should accept only tuples as an
>>>argument (not lists) to avoid potential problems with external
>>>references and mutability of the names. As for the validation, I'm not
>>>sure if it's a good idea to check for strings. maybe just check if the
>>>'names' stored in the tuple are immutable (or perhaps 'hashable') is
>>>enough.
>>>
>>
>>Your idea of a __names__ attribute suffers from a problem that the common
>>use case would be to return a tuple with appropriate names. Right now you
>>can do that easily in one statement but if you have to assign to an
>>attribute it becomes messy.
>>
>>An alternative would be so add a named argument to the tuple constructor so
>>we can do:
>>
>>        return tuple(('1', '2'), names=('ONE', 'TWO'))
>>
>>and that would set the __names__ property. If you allow this then you can
>>make the __names__ property readonly and the problem of introducing a cycle
>>in the __names__ attributes goes away.
> 
> 
> I think that a better way to solve the problem is to create a names
> method on the tuple itself:
> 
> return ('1', '2').names('ONE', 'TWO')
> 
> It's shorter and clean, and avoids a potential argument against named
> parameters for the tuple constructor -- none of the standard
> contructors take named parameters to set extended behavior as far as I
> know.
> 

but doesn't this feel more pythonic and more consistant?

return ('ONE':'1', 'TWO':'2')



From richardjones at optushome.com.au  Sun Nov 21 18:19:05 2004
From: richardjones at optushome.com.au (richard)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:19:05 +1100
Subject: OSDC timetable is up, with plenty of Python talks
Message-ID: <41a1226e$0$31138$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>

The Open Source Developers' Conference is on next week (Dec 1 - 3) in 
Melbourne (Australia) and the conference timetable is now available: 
<http://www.osdc.com.au/news/timetable.html>

As you can see, there are going to be plenty of Python talks, including 
a keynote by Anthony Baxter. And I'll be talking about Roundup :)

Registrations are still open <http://www.osdc.com.au/registration> so
I'd encourage you to come along and hear some great local Python talks.


    Richard



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Nov 16 07:26:55 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:26:55 +0100
Subject: Pictograms and Python
References: <81a41dd.0411160125.1aa4c7c1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cncrmi$avo$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Lad wrote:

> Hi,
> did anyone try to convert a Pictogram ( = a picture with text) to text?
> Lad

>From this and your last post I assume that you want to perform some 
registration stuff that is protected against scripts like yours using
images with distorted characters that a human beeing can decipher and
enter, but that are hard to identify using OCR techniques. They're called a
CAPTCHA.

As these protections are there for a good reason and I personally loathe
spam, I hope you neither succeed nor get help from this community.

In the (I believe unlikely) case of your plans to automate access to that
site are of good intentions, I'm sure you can make a deal with the people
running that service so that you can access it through some RPC mechanism.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From vinay_sajip at red-dove.com  Wed Nov  3 17:08:41 2004
From: vinay_sajip at red-dove.com (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 22:08:41 +0000
Subject: ANN: New configuration module released
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5873.1099513574.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5873.1099513574.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418956E9.8000600@red-dove.com>

Neal D. Becker wrote:
> Looks good so far.
> 
> The boost c++ library (about to be released) has a new program_options
> parser.  One feature I appreciate in the design, is that the source of
> options is seperated from the rest of the design.  This means that, out of
> the box, it reads options from command line, from config files, and from
> env variables.  Probably not hard to extend if anyone could think of a
> reason.
> 
> I believe a decent config module should at least handle both config files
> and command line options.  ENV variables are a nice touch too.
> 

Python already has the optparse module for command-line options, and
it's pretty good. I'll be looking at ways in which access to
command-line options parsed via optparse can be made available through
the config API, without duplication of code.

Regards,


Vinay Sajip



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Thu Nov 11 16:52:10 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:52:10 -0700
Subject: How to load new class definitions at runtime?
In-Reply-To: <4193DCEB.2040004@pythonapocrypha.com>
References: <864d37090411111306159e40e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<4193DCEB.2040004@pythonapocrypha.com>
Message-ID: <4193DF0A.9090204@pythonapocrypha.com>

Dave Brueck wrote:
> 1) No module level code. Modules can have optional Setup() and 
> Teardown() functions that get called if present (the most typical use 
> case is to pass state from the old version of the module to the new 
> version - the return value from Teardown gets passed to the new module's 
> Setup function).

A slight clarification: at the module level we allowed imports and definition of 
module global variables of course, just not code that had external side effects. 
So e.g. if a module always had its own worker thread running, it would get 
started in the Setup method and stopped in Teardown.

-Dave


From mauriceling at acm.org  Tue Nov  9 22:55:27 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 03:55:27 GMT
Subject: possible to pass python objects into java without jython?
In-Reply-To: <jkfkd.70767$QQ5.1438243@weber.videotron.net>
References: <mailman.6140.1099997924.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<jkfkd.70767$QQ5.1438243@weber.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <4191912d$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>


> 
> The simple answer is no. The complex answer is maybe, but not without 
> some work on your part.
> 
> As part of JPype I made the opposite : allow Python to use Java classes. 
> That was easy as python is very dynamic.
> 
> Going the other way around .... I don;t see how. The java part must want 
> to receive a specific Java type. Even if that type is Object (the root 
> of all object types in Java), tehre is no way for Python object to be 
> one of those.
> 
> Case #1 : the "main" program is in Python, and the Java type to be 
> received is a Java interface. In that specific case, JPype 
> (http://jpype.sourceforge.net) can help you. You can "wrap" your pO into 
> the correct Java type and apss it in.
> 
> Otherwise, as has been mantioned before, you will need some kind of 
> remoting mechanism. Corba might provide a middle ground, or XML-RPC/SOAP.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Steve

Hi,

Referring to this scenario again.....

pA.py contains
imports (something non-pure python)
def A(n):
    ...(does something)...
    returns pO

pB.py comtains
import pA
def B(n):
    (does something)
    x = pA.A(n)
    (does more things)

Perhaps if we lax the problem a little and allow Jython to be in 
consideration and pB.py is implemented in Jython (as jyB.py), then using 
jythonc to convert it into a Java package (jyB.jar containing 
jython.jar, jyB.class and jyB$Inner.class). Am I then able to import jyB 
in my Java codes? Is it possible to use Jython as the middle ground, 
instead of CORBA or SOAP etc etc?

Thanks
Maurice


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Nov 19 19:24:21 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:24:21 -0800
Subject: Global variables in modules/functions
In-Reply-To: <419e9e02$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <cnltf7$ra6$1@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> <419e9e02$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <10pt3ejp6abnq72@corp.supernews.com>

Scott David Daniels wrote:

> The easiest way to do this is to create a module named "globals", and
> have any modules wanting to work like:


... except that you might want to use a different name, to avoid 
shadowing the globals() builtin function.  :)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From andrea.valle at unito.it  Mon Nov  1 16:09:03 2004
From: andrea.valle at unito.it (andrea valle)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 22:09:03 +0100
Subject: name of an instance
In-Reply-To: <cm61a6$106$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <40a939c9.0410291820.fada696@posting.google.com><40a939c9.0410310827.112f13a1@posting.google.com><864d370904103113373b9698f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<6FAE7CBE-2BF1-11D9-841C-0003939C968C@unito.it>
	<cm61a6$106$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <427C4D12-2C4A-11D9-B6B3-0003939C968C@unito.it>

Thanks,
That was a possibility. But my idea was to not requiring the instance 
to know explicitly about its name. I solved passing my receiving object 
not the instance's name, but the instance directly.

-a-



On 1 Nov 2004, at 20:03, Terry Reedy wrote:

>
> "andrea valle" <andrea.valle at unito.it> wrote in message
> news:6FAE7CBE-2BF1-11D9-841C-0003939C968C at unito.it...
>> How do I access the name of an instance?
>
> By giving __init__ a name param that you store as self.name so that the
> instance really has a name.  (def and class statements do something
> similar)
> ---
> class MyClass:
>   def __init__(self, name='No name'):
>     self.name = name
>   def __str__(self): return self.name
>
> Terry J. Reedy
>
>
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
Andrea Valle
Laboratorio multimediale "G. Quazza"
Facolt? di Scienze della Formazione
Universit? degli Studi di Torino
andrea.valle at unito.it



From niels_bohr at uol.com.br  Sun Nov  7 00:44:50 2004
From: niels_bohr at uol.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio?= Mendes)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 03:44:50 -0200
Subject: PEP new assert idiom
In-Reply-To: <7xr7n62t0v.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr7n62t0v.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1099806290.11311.102.camel@localhost.localdomain>

> Some time ago I found myself proposing a new "Validate" statement,
> which would work exactly like "assert", except:
> 
>   1) it would throw a ValidationError instead of AssertionError
>      if the condition failed
> 
>   2) it would NOT be turned into a no-op by the optimizing compiler.
> 
[...]
This sounds great. I like the validate syntax. This also sounds very
useful to me. If it doesn't go mainstream, it should, at least be a
parameter controlled at runtime:

>>> import validate
>>> validate.always_compile_assertions = True # this name sucks! I know!

Ideally, for me, python would support a decent DPC-like semantics: 

>>> class foo_bar:
>>>   contract, 'invariant':
>>>     assert (something always true), 'Errormsg1'
>>>     assert (more imutable truths), 'Errormsg2'
>>>             
>>>   def foo(self, var1, var2):
>>> 	contract, 'pre':
>>>       # var1 and var2 are avaiable in this scope
>>>       assert expr, 'Error string1'
>>>       assert expr1, expr2, 'Error string2'
>>>         
>>>     contract, 'pos':
>>>       # var1, var2, avaiable. 'old' is 'self' before calling foo 
>>>       # foo.return stands for the output of function foo (or None)
>>>       # foo.error is any the exception the function had trown
>>>       assert self.bar > old.bar 
>>>       assert foo == some result, 'Error string'
>>>       if foo.error == some Exception:
>>>         assert (condition to trow that exception), 'Error'
>>> 
>>>	(function implementation)


The (python) implementation of this syntax can be something like this.
If dbc is enable, foo method becames:

>>> def foo(self, var1, var2):
>>>   try:
>>>     contract invariant block
>>>     ...
>>>   except AssertionError, x:
>>>     contractViolations.log('invariant', x)
>>>
>>>   try:
>>>     pre contract block
>>>     ...
>>>   except AssertionError, x:
>>>     contractViolations.log('pre', x)
>>>   try:
>>>     foo.value = __old_foo(var1, var2)
>>>   finally error, error_msg:
>>>     if error: foo.value = None
>>>     foo.error = error
>>>     try:
>>>       post contract block
>>>      except AssertionError, x:
>>>       contractViolations.log('pos', x)
>>>     if error and not contract.fail_silently: 
>>>       raise error, error_msg

The program executes normally, then, if non fatal errors happens,
contracViolations.report() will print a nice formated report of what was
violated, similar to what unittest module does. This is not pure DBC I
guess, but is nice.

Thanks,
Fabio


From steve at ferg.org  Wed Nov  3 09:04:44 2004
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 3 Nov 2004 06:04:44 -0800
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
	<du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<4187b7a1$0$2383$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<QtOdnVh_Pq7-SRrcRVn-2g@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0411030604.603069ea@posting.google.com>

> Lots of people *want* a PyPAN; the number of people willing to work on it is about zero.

Admitted.  Or perhaps those with the skills needed for the work aren't
able to undertake such a big job without financial support. That's why
I proposed that PSF put out a special RFP for grant money to seed the
work. My whole post was an argument for that proposal.  Here's the
argument in a nutshell.

**********************************************

PSF's mission is (among other things) to support Python's long-term
sucess.

Popularity is part of what it means to be successful.  Popularity is
important to the Python community because it means jobs for Python
developers, and usage of Python by organizations that need it.

Python will never catch up to Perl in popularity without CPAN-like
support.

Therefore, Support for CPAN-like capabilities for Python is critical
to Python's long-term success.

Therefore, in keeping with its mission, PSF should offer grants
specifically targeted at producing a CPyAN.

***********************************************

This issue should be of critical interest to all Python developers,
because it means the difference between the existence and the
non-existence of opportunities for developers to use Python on the
job.


From t-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Sun Nov 14 23:38:30 2004
From: t-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:38:30 +1300
Subject: IMAP4 example in docs causes memory error for me (OS X 10.3, 
In-Reply-To: <ECBA357DDED63B4995F5C1F5CBE5B1E8016234D5@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <ECBA357DDED63B4995F5C1F5CBE5B1E86C37EC@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

[Problems with IMAP4, OS X 10.3 and FETCH]

> seems like i have a slight work around to this issue, which is to use 
> try and except and to also reinit the imap instance every 
> time you want to get a message... this limits the error to only larger 
> messages. but it's still weird.

Some SpamBayes users reported this problem (using the SpamBayes IMAP filter)
a while back.  Googling about, it appeared that Apple made some changes with
10.3 so that malloc doesn't like giving out large chunks of memory (none of
the problems were specifically with Python).  I don't have a Mac to test
whether that's the case, though.

It does seem that the best solution would be to wrap the code to catch
MemoryErrors, and if they occur, try getting the message in chunks.  Not a
simple solution, though.

If you do find more information, please post it here, as I (and maybe
others) would be interested.  FWIW, SpamBayes just skips any messages that
cause this problem, which is a solution, but not a great one.

=Tony.Meyer



From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Wed Nov  3 10:20:26 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 10:20:26 -0500
Subject: Should I learn Python?
In-Reply-To: <624a388a.0411021328.5ac41f4c@posting.google.com>
References: <624a388a.0411021328.5ac41f4c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tfqdnaUyOpynahXcRVn-jw@giganews.com>

Sam wrote:

 > Should I learn Python?

I think learning a new langauge every once in while can be
extremely beneficial even if one does not actually
switch to it

> 1. What can I do with Python that I can't do with php? 

You cannot write Python code in php.

> 2. Do you use both PHP and Python in conjunction with each other?

No and probably very few do.

> 3. In what way could I utilize Python to compliment existing sites or
> apps built with PHP?

Implementing more complex algorithms is a lot easier with python.
You still need a way to interface between the two though.

Istvan.


From philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net  Sun Nov  7 18:17:49 2004
From: philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 17:17:49 -0600
Subject: parsing pyton code
Message-ID: <200411071717.49440.philippecmartin@sbcglobal.net>

 
>>Check the source of the 'code' module, especially the runsource()
>>method of the InteractiveInterpreter class. ?Also, see these docs

>><http://docs.python.org/lib/module-code.html>


>>/Jean Brouwers
>>ProphICy Semiconductor, Inc.



code.InteractiveInterpreter.compile() did the trick - thank you


PS: 17 years of C/C++, 3 months of Python .... 17 years wasted ? boy I _love_ 
this language/environment.



Philippe


From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Sat Nov 27 21:23:00 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 13:23:00 +1100 (EST)
Subject: C API PyErr_Clear vs PyObject_HasAttrString
In-Reply-To: <41A88448.4010501@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
References: <41A88448.4010501@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20041128125705.B63894@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004, Robin Becker wrote:

> I'm trying to understand why this code causes a seg fault second time
> through; the code is part of a setattr and is testing if the value is an
> integer or has red, green and blue attributes. This code later goes on
> to raise a ValueError if  that's not the case.
>
> if((i = PyArg_Parse(value,"i",&cv))){
> 	c->value = cv;
> 	c->valid = 1;
> 	return 1;
> 	}
>
> rgb = PyObject_HasAttrString(value,"red")
> 	&& PyObject_HasAttrString(value,"green")
> 	&& PyObject_HasAttrString(value,"blue");
> PyErr_Clear();
>
>
> ......
> PyErr_SetString(PyExc_ValueError, "bad color value");
>
>
> Both calls should fail and raise ValueError, but the second call causes
> a seg fault in Python 2.3.4 (not in 2.2 and earlier).
>
> In 2.3.4 I found that moving the PyErr_Clear() before the calculation of
> rgb fixes the problem.
>
> I assume the problem is that something in the rgb calculation is failing
> because the python error flag is set. Is that a bug in the
> implementation of PyObject_HasAttrString or is it my fault for not
> knowing which API calls need a cleared error flag?

Rule:  if you call a Python API function, _always_ check its return
       status (unless documented as void).  if it fails, check for an
       exception.  if you want to ignore the exception, clear the
       exception, otherwise cleanup and bailout.

This is a paraphrase (from memory) of a previous reply from Tim Peters.

Notwithstanding this, segfaulting in a Python API function is not welcome
(especially one documented as always succeeding!).

I had a look at the source (from a CVS checkout this morning), and the
only thing that looks like a source of such trouble would be an extension
class with a tp_getattr implementation.

If you are using such a beast, you might want to look at the tp_getattr
implementation first.  Otherwise I'd suggest filing a bug report on SF.
BTW, have you tried this with 2.4c1?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen ACT 2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia


From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Wed Nov 17 18:21:00 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 15:21:00 -0800
Subject: EVIL FBI SADISTS should be HUNTED,
	KIDNAPPED and TORTURED for 3 YRS
References: <8880818c.0411170340.726aeb0d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0411171521.26067ced@posting.google.com>

victorn234 at 138mail.com (Keith) wrote in message news:<8880818c.0411170340.726aeb0d at posting.google.com>...
> Someone emailed and requested me to post it on Usenet newsgroups. 

Hey numnuts, don't you know EVIL FBI SADISTS have already WIRETAPPED
your USENET client?!?!!!!! TURN OFF YOUR COMPUTER, LOCK ALL DOORS and
HIDE IN THE CELLAR NOW!!!!!!!!!!


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Wed Nov  3 20:03:54 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 01:03:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com> <2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmbtep$aen$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041104T020202-187@post.gmane.org>

JCM <joshway_without_spam <at> myway.com> writes:
> 
> > Definition 1 is the definition most commonly used in Programming
> > Languages literature....  However, for
> > all intents and purposes, it is only applicable to statically typed
> > languages; no one on the list could come up with a dyamically typed
> > language that allowed bit-reinterpretation.
> 
> Assembly language.  The types of values are implied by what
> instructions you use.

I'm sure some people would argue that assembly language is untyped (not
statically or dynamically typed) and that the operations are defined on bits,
but this is definitely the best example I've seen.  Thanks!

Steve



From pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Nov  4 15:26:29 2004
From: pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 20:26:29 +0000
Subject: LRU cache (and other things missing from the standard library
	...)
References: <mailman.5777.1099334996.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uis8ll5sa.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>

Gerhard Haering <gh at ghaering.de> writes:

> I recently implemented a LRU cache. And I wondered why such a useful class is
> not already in the standard library. The only thing I found was a cookbook
> entry but the comments said it was problematic.

[...]

> I've already started translating it into C (*) , which speeds it up by between
> factor 5 to 8. Maybe a candidate for the standard library once it's finished?

Would this be a suitable addition for the collections module (which
currently only has deque in it)?

I'm not sure if a LRU cache counts as a "collection" in that sense. I
looked at the code briefly, but don't really follow it yet...

Paul.
-- 
One of the lessons of history is that nothing is often a good thing to
do and always a clever thing to say. -- Will Durant


From David  Sat Nov  6 15:32:48 2004
From: David (David)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 13:32:48 -0700
Subject: JMS for CPython via JPype?
References: <1b2k1czwwox4i$.ae466jlsmeu2$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<n4soo0t5hf838mtjb3cjp9jiu8rrqmu0pm@4ax.com>
	<iB8jd.60325$v03.1239286@wagner.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <v4dqo05ufca1eo6mp3dv6s8r5id31v6jn5@4ax.com>

On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 13:19:49 -0500, Steve Menard <foo at bar.com> wrote:


>
>Dave,
>
>This example is amazing! would you be willing to contribute it to a 
>Jpype examples/recipe repository? I think such a place would be great 
>for those starting to use JPype. And as my documentation is not so good 
>(yet), good examples can only help.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Steve Menard

Consider it contributed. I'm glad to (finally) give something back to
c.l.py!

Dave


From craig at postnewspapers.com.au  Fri Nov 19 05:53:57 2004
From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:53:57 +0800
Subject: How to sort a list of tuples
In-Reply-To: <1100859769.700610@eng-ser6>
References: <1100859769.700610@eng-ser6>
Message-ID: <1100861637.22341.4.camel@bucket.localnet>

On Fri, 2004-11-19 at 18:22, Valkyrie wrote:
> I have a list of tuples, and one of the fields in the tuple is score. So how can
> I sort the list by the score?

Assuming the score field is index 1 of each tuple:

def cmp(a,b):
    if   a[1] < b[1]:
        return -1
    elif a[1] > b[1]:
        return 1
    else:
        return 0

my_tuple_list.sort(cmp)

(technically the elifs could be ifs, and the final else could be omitted
in favour of just 'return 0', but for clarity the above is IMO best).

see 'help(list.sort)' for more information.

To whoever added this fantastic feature, thanks and more thanks. It's
saved me so much work at times that it's just crazy.

--
Craig Ringer



From mailto.anand.hariharan at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 14:23:01 2004
From: mailto.anand.hariharan at gmail.com (Anand Hariharan)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 11:23:01 -0800
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Ice 2.0 released
References: <ketod.45140$K7.3294@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<ted8q0h19c4disktejd9ur7pdgec0h1hl0@4ax.com>
	<s7SdnfFRp_kLGjncRVn-1A@speakeasy.net>
	<22868227.0411300634.1d333921@posting.google.com>
	<0YidnREmZ8xECDHcRVn-oA@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <22868227.0411301123.c18dec9@posting.google.com>

Marc Laukien <marc at zeroc.com> wrote in message news:<0YidnREmZ8xECDHcRVn-oA at speakeasy.net>...
> > 
(...)
> > Am interested to know, what "percentage" (*) of the code in your CVS
> > repository has been contributed by people other than the group
> > mentioned in the quote above?  Obviously, you do not allow anonymous
> > CVS write access.  Perhaps, one wishing to improve Ice (a freedom
> > granted by GPL) and who does not work for ZeroC has to mail his/her
> > improvements to your maintainers?
> > 
(...)
> 
> 100% of the Ice source code has been developed by ZeroC employees.
> 
> Note that this does of course not apply for third-party code that is 
> being used by Ice, such as BZIP2, Berkeley DB, OpenSSL, etc.
> 

Consider the *hypothetical* situation where an individual or a group
of people re-write large portions of Ice.  This could enhance the
value of Ice (obviously to some, if not all), or this could conflict
with the ideologies of Ice (again, not in everyone's point of view). 
How will ZeroC react to this?

I believe whichever road you take, ZeroC is going to find itself in
problems.  If ZeroC merges the changes made by this/these person(s),
how can ZeroC now sell it under a commercial license, as closed source
(violation of GPL)?  If you refuse to merge the changes, you have just
given them a strong impetus to fork.  History shows XEmacs and EGCS as
two such examples.

Guess what I am primarily interested in finding out is rooted in what
I said earlier:

> > Interesting to see this blend of GPL and an alternative for
> > closed-source software.

What were the ideas behind going the GPL way?  How did ZeroC plan on
benefiting from it?  Were there any qualms within ZeroC in going GPL?

Note that I am not saying GPL and commercial software don't go
together (I do believe though that LGPL and commercial software don't
go together).  I am well aware of Free software being "Free speech,
not free beer".

What if you did not provide Ice as a free download, but a price based
on your current licensing policy(*).  However, the download would give
one the complete source, and the freedom to modify and redistribute it
(at whatever price so long as the complete source code with the GPL
notice is released).
(*):  All of this is hypothetical.  Am not making a business
proposition here.

You do not, because that would discourage Ice from becoming
ubiquitous, from paving way for becoming a potential de-facto
standard.

Then, why not simply advertise Ice as being commercial (with unlimited
free trial plus source code)?  Doing so, would get you the extensive
peer review that you are currently benefitting from.  What do you gain
by going GPL?  The freedom to modify and/or redistribute is
(apparently) pretty restricted anyway.

> > PS:  Please feel free to set FU-Ts as appropriate.
> 
> What are FU-Ts?
> 

"Follow-up To:".  Most news clients will allow sending a post to
multiple groups, restricting any possible responses to certain groups
alone.  A poster who is replying can over-ride it, of course.

sincerely,
- Anand


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Nov 15 20:09:41 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:09:41 -0800
Subject: save a dictionary in a file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6393.1100558555.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <2vsa8hF2oa58tU1@uni-berlin.de>	<10pi8f8ivf320a1@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.6393.1100558555.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10piklanchlkm42@corp.supernews.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

>Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>Luis P. Mendes wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>my program builds a dictionary that I would like to save in a file.
>>>      
>>>
>>As others have said, there should be no reason to convert to a list 
>>before pickling -- AFAIK, there's no ban against pickling dictionaries.
>>
>>You might also look into the Shelve module, which implements a 
>>filesystem-persisting object with dictionary access syntax.  (And which, 
>>IIRC, uses pickled dictionaries under the covers.)
>>    
>>
>
>It doesn't.  It uses a bsddb database.
>
>A bsddb (really anydbm which can give you bsddb) database is merely a
>string key->string value mapping (for btree and hash mappings). You
>access it via string keys, and its values are automatically translated
>to/from strings via Pickle. The only way you actually pickle and
>unpickle dictionaries is by having a dictionary in a value.
>  
>

Ah, my mistake.  (I've never really had call to use shelve *or* pickle, 
and was going off of (apparently erroneous) memories of conversations in 
c.l.py.) 

Still, it does seem that shelve would probably fit the O.P.'s needs...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca  Thu Nov 18 23:16:30 2004
From: bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca (Brian van den Broek)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:16:30 -0500
Subject: Identifying exceptions that can be raised
In-Reply-To: <cVdnd.7986$tS4.4873@trndny09>
References: <cVdnd.7986$tS4.4873@trndny09>
Message-ID: <419D739E.5030300@po-box.mcgill.ca>

dkcpub said unto the world upon 2004-11-18 22:38:
> I'm very new to Python, but I couldn't find anything in the docs or faq 
> about this.  And I fished around in the IDLE menus but didn't see anything.
> 
> Is there a tool that can determine all the exceptions that can be raised 
> in a Python function, or in any of the functions it calls, etc.?
> 
> /Dan

Hi Dan,

Do you mean all the exceptions that exist? If so, while I don't know 
Python well enough to vouch for its completeness, check out 
<http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.4/lib/module-exceptions.html>.

If you mean you want a list of exceptions that a given function could 
raise, well, never mind :-)

Best,

Brian vdB



From timr at probo.com  Wed Nov 24 01:13:20 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 22:13:20 -0800
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<cnlgv2$vc$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<16798.19563.729805.103774@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<cnseks$c34$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6690.1101119479.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cj98q0h2ga9ip6fecn9lot6kbjthnfbndt@4ax.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>(btw, do I automatically assign to Microsoft the property of any idea
>that I eventually communicate to them? I'm curious).

Did you sign the NDA?  Then you might have done exactly that.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From 18k11tm001 at sneakemail.com  Tue Nov 30 14:22:26 2004
From: 18k11tm001 at sneakemail.com (Russ)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 11:22:26 -0800
Subject: Python 2.4c1 vs. 2.4
Message-ID: <bebbba07.0411301122.5aeb3530@posting.google.com>

My sysadmin recently installed 2.4c1 on our network. Should we now
install 2.4, or is it the same as 2.4c1? Thanks.


From jbore at tjtech.com  Wed Nov 17 18:32:47 2004
From: jbore at tjtech.com (Joseph T. Bore)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 23:32:47 GMT
Subject: ANN Python IRCD
Message-ID: <m3mzxgdpb9.fsf@union.tjtech.com>


I would like to let everyone know about, and release onto the world,
my python IRCD.

The goals of it were to be small and light, not a full IRC protocol
implementation.  To that end, it's under 500 lines of code and just
one file.

It's stable, and seems ready for others to use, I'll probably spend
the next few releases working on more comments and adding a few more
basic functions.

I Hope others find it useful..

     http://pyircd.sf.net

jb








From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Nov 16 20:40:31 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:40:31 -0800
Subject: global event listeners
In-Reply-To: <1100638869.786109.237720@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1100638869.786109.237720@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20041116173311.F97F.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


"Hunter  Peress" <hunterp at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I want to do things directly before an object is changed. eg is there
> something like:
> 
> 
> a= "hi"
> 
> objectChangeListener(a,lambda(previous_value,new_value):\
> global_counter.append(previous_value) ; return new_value)
> 
> so then this global_counter var will increment whenever a is changed.
> PS: im not looking to hear "know your codebase better"

You cannot do precisely what you want to do.  I'm sorry.  You can do
something similar.

class counter(object):
    def __init__(self, value):
        self.__value = value
        self.counter = 0
    
    def get_v(self):
        return self.__value
    def set_v(self, val):
        self.__value = val
        self.counter += 1
    value = property(get_v, set_v)

>>> a = counter(1)
>>> a.value = 10
>>> a.value = 5
>>> a.counter
2
>>> a.value
5
>>> a.value = 0
>>> a.value
0
>>> a.counter
3
>>> 

Properties are your friend.

 - Josiah



From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Wed Nov 10 07:31:52 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 04:31:52 -0800
Subject: property for class objects
References: <mailman.6198.1100056948.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zvgkd.40384$ak3.1503768@wagner.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0411100431.464f6050@posting.google.com>

Steve Menard <foo at bar.com> wrote in message news:<zvgkd.40384$ak3.1503768 at wagner.videotron.net>...
> I am not discarding this solution completely. It migth be that defining 
> those 2 (class and metaclass) isnt too heavy. Someone needs to clue me 
> in on this or I have to do some benchmarking myself.

Do your benchmark but I do not expect it to be heavy.

> Hopefully, tehre is a cleaner way to solve this.
> 

Look at descriptors: http://users.rcn.com/python/download/Descriptor.htm

   Michele Simionato


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 24 11:14:49 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:14:49 GMT
Subject: read(1) returns string of length 2
References: <xM_od.25928$jf.25666@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
Message-ID: <41a4aed7.904954415@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 12:03:41 GMT, "wolfgang haefelinger" <wh2005 at web.de> wrote:

>Greetings,
>
>I'm trying to read (japanese) chars from a file. While doing so
>I encounter that a char with length 2 is returned. Is this to be
>expected or is there something wrong?
>
>Basically it's this what I'm doing:
>
>import codecs
>f = codecs.open("ident.in",'rb','Shift-JIS')   ##  japanses codecs installed
>
>c = f.read(1)
>while c:
>   if len(c)==1:
>      print hex(ord(c)),
>   else:
>      print "{",
>      for x in c: print hex(ord(x)),
>      print "}",
>   c = f.read(1)
>
>This is my input (file is also attached):
>
>$ od -tx1 ident.in
>0000000 8d 87 8c 76 8e 9e 8a d4 3b 0d 0a
>0000013
>
>This is what I'm getting:
>
>$ python ident.py                                          ## python 2.3.4 
>on Windows
>0x5408 0x8a08 0x6642 0x9593 { 0x3b 0xd } 0xa
>
>"Python" believes that there are 6 chars on the stream while there are
>actually 7 chars.
>
>My naive assumption was that f.read(1) returns always a char of length 1 (or
>zero).
On my 2.4b1 it does, see below.

>
>Remark:
>The input is believed to be "SJIS" but I haven't found a Python codecs for 
>this.
>Therefore I'm using Shift-JIS. Of course this could be the problem. Note 
>that
>when feeding Java with my input  "correct" using SJIS, chars are spit out:
>
>  c=21512 c=35336 c=26178 c=38291 c=59 c=13 c=10 : 7 char(s)
>
>References:
>I downloaded Japanese codecs from here (version: 1.4.10)
>  http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~rd6t-kjym/python/
>
>Thanks for any hints,
>Wolfgang.
I added a print line and dropped the ending commas on your print chunks,
but otherwise didn't (I think ;-) change your code:

 Python 2.4b1 (#56, Nov  3 2004, 01:47:27)
 [GCC 3.2.3 (mingw special 20030504-1)] on win32
 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import codecs
 >>> f = codecs.open("ident.in",'rb','Shift-JIS')   ##  japanses codecs installed
 >>> c = f.read(1)
 >>> while c:
 ...    print repr(c), len(c), '=>',
 ...    if len(c)==1:
 ...       print hex(ord(c))
 ...    else:
 ...       print "{",
 ...       for x in c: print hex(ord(x)),
 ...       print "}"
 ...    c = f.read(1)
 ...
 u'\u5408' 1 => 0x5408
 u'\u8a08' 1 => 0x8a08
 u'\u6642' 1 => 0x6642
 u'\u9593' 1 => 0x9593
 u';' 1 => 0x3b
 u'\r' 1 => 0xd
 u'\n' 1 => 0xa

I reproduced your binary file:

 >>> for c in open('ident.in','rb').read(): print ('%02x'% ord(c)),
 ...
 8d 87 8c 76 8e 9e 8a d4 3b 0d 0a

What version/platform are you using? Perhaps you can upgrade?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Nov 22 13:34:31 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:34:31 GMT
Subject: Question about classes
In-Reply-To: <1101141738.LDtCTAQKBaFZGDwtJwHeqQ@teranews>
References: <1101104418.G+/GLqdG7XJQNil1Jd3gOQ@teranews>
	<ZQfod.652838$8_6.157621@attbi_s04>
	<1101141738.LDtCTAQKBaFZGDwtJwHeqQ@teranews>
Message-ID: <Wiqod.70996$V41.21308@attbi_s52>

Ben wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 06:39:53 +0000, Steven Bethard wrote:
> 
>> >>> class C(object):
>>...     def __init__(self, x):
>>...         if x != 0:
>>...         	self.x = x
>>...         else:
>>...         	self.x = 5
>>...         	
>> >>> c = C(0)
>> >>> c.x
>>5
>> >>> c = C(8)
>> >>> c.x
>>8
> 
> 
> Steve,
> 
> That's exactly what I wanted. Thank you very much. I'll keep the class one
> in mind too.

You're welcome.  Depending on your goal here, you might also find that 
default argument values are helpful:

 >>> class C(object):
...     def __init__(self, x=5):
...         self.x = x
...
 >>> c = C()
 >>> c.x
5
 >>> c = C(8)
 >>> c.x
8
 >>> c = C(0)
 >>> c.x
0

Steve


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Nov  6 18:18:59 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 15:18:59 -0800
Subject: checking a thread has started
In-Reply-To: <eaac783a04110610297363ac6d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20041106092443.F851.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<eaac783a04110610297363ac6d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041106151355.F859.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Deepak Sarda <deepak.sarda at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 09:30:59 -0800, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
> This seems like a way to workaround the problem. I'll try it on Monday
> and get back if it works. But this does bring up the point that
> threading.Thread() should provide some mechanism by which a thread's
> inability to start should be known. a return value or something. (I am
> a newbie to threads - python is the first language I am trying threads
> in so please educate me if I have wrong notions! :-)

If a thread doesn't start due to lack of resources, I think it should be
raising an exception.

As an aside, I wrote a little script that creates 1000 threads, does a
busy loop for a short time, then exits; it had no problems with a few
hundred threads at a time (though it was a bit slow), and I didn't see
any exceptions.  Perhaps I should have been incrementing a counter when
it started and finished.


> > As an aside, are you sure you need 15 threads?  Seems a little over the
> > top to me.
> 
> I do. This program sits on top of a cluster and ferries jobs to the
> compute nodes - an embarrassingly parallel problem with fifteen
> subtasks.

Sounds like a job for asyncore (if you can handle asynchronous
servers/clients).


 - Josiah



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Nov  5 23:16:41 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 22:16:41 -0600
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
In-Reply-To: <cmggh2$t2o$01$2@news.t-online.com>
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmgcp1$hpk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncong4u.1tk.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmggel$t2o$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cmggh2$t2o$01$2@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <16780.20521.237302.882056@montanaro.dyndns.org>

 
    Diez> A c++ object created by g++ is total garbage passed to a VC lib
    Diez> that appears to use the same objects denoted by some headerfile.

Sure, but the name mangling schemes are certainly well-defined.  The GNU
c++filt program on my Mac understands the following formats according to its
--help output:

    none,auto,gnu,lucid,arm,hp,edg,gnu-v3,java,gnat

I don't know what most of them are, but I guess c++filt does.  I imagine
something like ctypes could be trained to know how to decipher the
signatures as well.  There's still the problem of templates.

Skip


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  3 17:17:16 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 23:17:16 +0100
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41882354$0$14963$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5858.1099444286.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gmp77p.rndaoq3zftnxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:

> Some programmers may actually want "a" + 10 == 10.

Some people may actually want to drink poisoned kool-aid and join the
great wise extraterrestrials on their comet in the skies.  That doesn't
mean I will look with favour upon those who aid and abet such goals.


Alex


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Tue Nov  2 13:26:27 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:26:27 -0500
Subject: ruby on rails ... python on ?
In-Reply-To: <ba129ce7.0411011918.115120ba@posting.google.com>
References: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>
	<hfadnfYVCfD51RvcRVn-gw@giganews.com>
	<ba129ce7.0411011918.115120ba@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <w-OdnarhKrDOTBrcRVn-uQ@giganews.com>

John wrote:


> Why do you say that? I could agree if Zope could be programmed in many
> languages. Then not tending to any language would be a benefit. On the

what I am trying to say is that a creating a web site is
not the same thing as implementing an algorithm or
solving a problem that fits a computational paradigm like say
Object Oriented approach.

Parts of it, the core functionality maybe but when it comes to
the interface and behavior and human interactions all that goes
out the window. It becomes an indeterministic business: this
how it works today, and it is all wired together in a way that
makes most sense from usability perspective today.

This last mile, the one that interfaces with humans, parameter reading and validation,
security management, request filtering, and response rendering
should be written specifically with this in mind and
it has to be supported it in an entirely transparent and
independent  manner.

Istvan



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Nov  3 12:15:33 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:15:33 +0100
Subject: Python CGI - Accepting Input, Invoking Another Process,
	Ending CGI
References: <99351542.0411030837.beea2c7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cmb3nl$sj4$00$1@news.t-online.com>

> Based on previous suggestions from this group, I'm attempting to write
> a python CGI that takes input from an HTML form, invokes a second
> python script using this input, tells the user that their process has
> started, ends the cgi output and later emails the results of the
> invoked script.
> 
> My problem is that no mater how I invoke the 2nd script (spawnlp with
> P_NOWAIT, system with &, etc..) the CGI caller continues to run until
> it finishes.  If you press the stop button or close the browser
> certain portions of the 2nd script finish but not all of it.  In
> paticular the 2nd script uses teTex (invoked by os.system) to process
> some tex files, this always errors out if the browser is closed or
> stopped.

Did you try to daemonize your script? That will decouple it from the running
process, so maybe that helps. In the  aspn cookbook there is a good recipe
for daemonizing.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From jerry at jerrysievers.com  Sun Nov 21 13:13:06 2004
From: jerry at jerrysievers.com (Jerry Sievers)
Date: 21 Nov 2004 13:13:06 -0500
Subject: thread; interrupt_main() doesn't seem to work?
Message-ID: <m3pt27qde5.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>

Fellow Pythonists; According to the docs

+-----------------+
|interrupt_main(|)|
+-----------------+

          Raise a KeyboardInterrupt in the main thread. A subthread can use
     this function to interrupt the main thread. New in version 2.3.

Therefore, I was expecting this short test prog to run and then finish
with the KeyboardInterrupt exception at the bottom in the pause
routine.  It doesn't stop there but I can do a manual keyboard
interrupt and get the expected bactrace and program exit.

---

from signal import pause
from socket import socket
from thread import start_new_thread, interrupt_main
from time import sleep

def go():
    print 'go'
    while f.readline():
        print 'line'
    print 'empty'
    interrupt_main()
    print 'done'

s = socket()
s.connect(('localhost', 80))
f = s.makefile()
print 'connected'

start_new_thread(go, ())

sleep(2)
s.shutdown(2)
pause()  # expecting to get KeyboardInterrupt exception here

---

connected
go
empty
done
...hangs here as if interrupt_main() does nothing.

Manual Control-C required to wake up from pause() and exit.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test.py", line 23, in ?
    pause()  # expecting to get KeyboardInterrupt exception here
KeyboardInterrupt

Python 2.3.3 on RedHat 7x.

Wondering what's wrong?

Thanks


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Sievers   305 854-3001 (home)     WWW ECommerce Consultant
                305 321-1144 (mobile	http://www.JerrySievers.com/


From danperl at rogers.com  Thu Nov  4 15:48:20 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 15:48:20 -0500
Subject: New configuration module released
References: <2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840@posting.google.com><4d2dnXe5XY7bmxTcRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<mailman.5876.1099519315.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<VPWdnWBATKx3wxTcRVn-ug@rogers.com> <2uv9goF2f3161U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <O_udnfjCtPsHCBfcRVn-uw@rogers.com>

Thanks for the suggestion.  What are you using for a python implementation? 
I saw that there is PyYAML and Syck (multi-language, including python).

Dan

"Reinhold Birkenfeld" <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> wrote in 
message news:2uv9goF2f3161U1 at uni-berlin.de...
> Dan Perl wrote:
>
>> It's just an idea and I haven't put a lot of thought in it myself, but 
>> what
>> about using XML for the configuration syntax?
>
> I'm currently using YAML for configuration syntax. I don't need object
> references as in the OP's module, so I'm happy with it.
>
> It's also easy to change for users.
>
> Reinhold
>
>
> -- 
> [Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
> jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
> jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
> mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm 




From wh2005 at web.de  Sun Nov 21 06:09:30 2004
From: wh2005 at web.de (wolfgang haefelinger)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 11:09:30 GMT
Subject: unicode question
References: <qkLnd.22919$jf.19362@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<419fc9b9$0$198$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<419ff7cd_3@newspeer2.tds.net> <41A061E1.8050203@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <KH_nd.23139$jf.19287@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>

Hi Experts,

I'm actually not a Python expert so please bear with me and my naive
questions and remarks:

I was actually thinking that

 print x

is just kind of shortcur for writing (simplifying bit):

 import sys
 if not (isinstance(x,str) or isinstance(x,unicode)) and x.__str__ :
    x = x.__str__()
 sys.stdout.write(x)

Or in words: if x is not a string type but has method __str__ then

 print x

behaves like

 print x.__str__()

Given this assumption I'm wondering then why  print x.__str__()
works but print x does not?

Is this a bug??

Cheers,
Wolfgang.



""Martin v. L?wis"" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message 
news:41A061E1.8050203 at v.loewis.de...
> Kent Johnson wrote:
>> Martin v. L?wis wrote:
>>
>>> wolfgang haefelinger wrote:
>>>
>>>> I wonder especially about case 2. I can see that "print y" makes a call 
>>>> to
>>>> Y.__str__() . But Y.__str__() can be printed?? So what is 'print' 
>>>> exactly doing?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It looks at sys.stdout.encoding. If this is set, and the thing to print
>>> is a unicode string, it converts it to the stream encoding, and prints
>>> the result of the conversion.
>>
>>
>> I hate to contradict an expert, but ISTM that it is 
>> sys.getdefaultencoding() ('ascii') that is the problem, not 
>> sys.stdout.encoding ('cp437')
>
> It seems we were answering different parts of the question. I answered
> the part "What is 'print' exactly doing"; you answered the part as to
> what the problem with str() conversion is (although I'm not sure whether
> the OP has actually asked that question).
>
> Also, the one case that is interesting here was not in your experiment:
> try
>
> print gamma
>
> This should work, regardless of sys.getdefaultencoding(), as long as
> sys.stdout.encoding supports the characters to be printed.
>
> Regards,
> Martin 




From M.Waack at gmx.de  Sun Nov 28 08:49:18 2004
From: M.Waack at gmx.de (Mathias Waack)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 14:49:18 +0100
Subject: files in non-blocking mode?
References: <cock5m$lq5$1@news2.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Message-ID: <uj1p72-cd7.ln1@valpo.de>

Uwe Mayer wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I want two python programs to communicate over stdIO channels. The
> one executes the other via the popen3 function:
> 
> amc = Popen3("./amc/amc.py", True, 0)
> line = stdin.readline()
> amc.tochild.write(line)
> amc.tochild.flush()
> print amc.fromchild.readlines()
> 
> The problem is that although amc.tochild gets flushed the data
> never reaches the client until the .tochild fd is closed. Is there
> any way to put IO channels into non-blocking mode in python?

How do you read the data in the client? Maybe you're using a line
buffered read? Does your code work if the server includes a trailing
CR and/or NL in the string before it calls the flush?

Mathias


From rtilley at vt.edu  Thu Nov  4 19:21:33 2004
From: rtilley at vt.edu (Brad Tilley)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 19:21:33 -0500
Subject: win 2003 server
In-Reply-To: <0-GdnfNAPrb1XxfcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
References: <cmef57$7si$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<0-GdnfNAPrb1XxfcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <418AC78D.50804@vt.edu>

Peter Hansen wrote:
>> Does Python run on Windows Server 2003?
>>
>> http://www.python.org/download/download_windows.html only lists the 
>> following:
>>
>> Python for Windows 95, 98, NT, 2000, ME, XP
> 
> 
> I'm fairly sure "Windows Server 2003" is in no way significantly
> different from one or more of the above items you list.

That's the list from Python's Windows Download page... not my list.

> If you have a copy, downloading and installing a copy of Python
> would be the most direct route to proving that theory.

I'm buying a new server. I want to make sure Python will run on the OS.


From peter_ammon at rocketmail.com  Mon Nov 15 19:08:00 2004
From: peter_ammon at rocketmail.com (Peter Ammon)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:08:00 -0800
Subject: nonblocking read()
Message-ID: <cnbgd0$ls4$1@news.apple.com>

I would like to read from a pipe in which data may arrive slowly.  From 
experimenting, it looks like os.read() will block until it returns the 
maximum amount of data you asked for, in the second parameter to read(), 
or until it hits EOF.  I cannot find a way to return only the data that 
the file object has immediately available.

If no data is available, blocking is OK.

The only workaround I can think of is to call select() in a loop, 
reading and storing one byte each time, and then returning them when 
select() indicates that the pipe is not ready for reading.

Are there better approaches?  Thanks,

-Peter


From news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com  Fri Nov 26 13:48:08 2004
From: news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com (Will McGugan)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 18:48:08 +0000
Subject: Number of colors in an image
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6820.1101494223.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6820.1101494223.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41a77a69$0$1067$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>

Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:
>   Hello,
> 
> How can I determine the number of colors used in an image? I tried to
> search on Google but I could figure out. I read the PIL handbook but I
> do not see how to do it. Can anyone help?

You may get a better response on how to do it in Python, but the 
following C++ code should be easy to translate if necessary. All it 
requires is a get pixel function.

int CImage::CountUsedColours() const
{
	if ( !IsValid() ) { Error( errImageInvalid ); return 0; }	
	
	const int TableSize= ( 256 * 256 * 256 ) / 8;

	byte CountTable[ TableSize ];
	memset( &CountTable[0], 0, TableSize );	
	
	for( int Y= 0; Y < GetHeight(); Y++ )
	{
		byte* pColour= (byte*)GetLinePointer( Y );
		int WidthCount= GetWidth();		

		while( WidthCount-- )
		{
			const CColour colPix= GetPixel( pColour );
			const int Offset= (int)colPix.R << 16 | (int)colPix.G << 8 | 
(int)colPix.B;
			CountTable[ Offset >> 3 ] |= 1 << ( Offset & 7 );
			pColour+= GetBPP();
		}

	}

	int ColourCount= 0;

	for( int n= 0; n < TableSize; n++ )
	{
		const int CountBits= CountTable[n];

		ColourCount+= ( CountBits & 1 );
		ColourCount+= ( CountBits >> 1 ) & 1;
		ColourCount+= ( CountBits >> 2 ) & 1;
		ColourCount+= ( CountBits >> 3 ) & 1;
		ColourCount+= ( CountBits >> 4 ) & 1;
		ColourCount+= ( CountBits >> 5 ) & 1;
		ColourCount+= ( CountBits >> 6 ) & 1;
		ColourCount+= ( CountBits >> 7 );						
	}

	OK();
	return ColourCount;
}


Regards,

Will McGugan


From nicolas.riesch at genevoise.ch  Tue Nov  9 10:41:18 2004
From: nicolas.riesch at genevoise.ch (nico)
Date: 9 Nov 2004 07:41:18 -0800
Subject: unicode string literals and "u" prefix
References: <ac3d3965.0411080600.3a5bce8d@posting.google.com>
	<418fed14$0$156$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <ac3d3965.0411090741.78c9dce4@posting.google.com>

Thank you a lot for your answer.

I understand better, now.
Nevertheless, all this unicode issue is quite confusing for beginners
( I started to learn Python two month ago... ).
And it seems that I am not the only one in this case.
In fact, I just came across this discussion of april 2003 "[Zope3-dev]
i18n, unicode, and the underline"
http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope3-dev/2003-April/006410.html.

Working for an insurance company, most of our data contain french
accented characters.
So, we are condemned to work essentially with unicode strings.
In fact, it is hard to find examples where plain ascii strings would
be useful in our case.
Even data we retrieve from databases are returned to us as unicode
strings.

That's why I tried to find a way to get rid of all those "u" prefixes
instead of systematically putting it in front of each unicode string
litteral, which is somewhat "noisy".
That's also because I am afraid that sometime someone will forget this
"u" prefix, and errors will be detected in a far more later stage, or
too late.
A way of defaulting all string literal as unicode would have been a
relief.

It would be good if we could just write a declaration at the beginning
of the source file like
  # strings_are_unicode_by_default
We would write unicode strings without "u" prefix like this:
  s="?l?ment"
and if we really must have plain ascii strings, we could explicitely
prefix them with "a", for instance s=a"my plain ascii string".
Thus, everybody would be happy, and there will be no incidence about
all the already written codes or librairies.
But there must be issues I am not aware of, I suppose...

I think you have the same problem when you write strings in german
language.
But if it is no problem for you to prefix your strings with "u" like
in :
  s=u"Vielen Dank f?r Ihre Antwort"
then we can live with it too, for the next twenty years.

Sometimes, I feel like an ethnical minority, when I see in a
well-known book about Python that "Because Unicode is a relatively
advanced and rarely used tool, we will omit further details in this
introductory text."
Working in a language with accented characters is definitively bad
luck.

Freundliche Gr?sse

Nicolas Riesch


From missive at frontiernet.net  Sat Nov 27 11:07:41 2004
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:07:41 GMT
Subject: Introduction/box
References: <mailman.6831.1101507514.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<25dfq09do1vvpd62b6bkjn73np33m3761j@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrncqh9ic.2jkf.missive@homer.localdomain>

On 2004-11-26, Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 22:21:45 +0000, rumours say that cm012b5105
><cm012b5105 at blueyonder.co.uk> might have written:
>
>>Hello every body this is my first post i would just like to say im new to to 
>>python iv tried out several different tutorials.And i think its great anyway 
>>i would like to ask a question if i may i want to know how to make a 
>>box /square i was hoping some one would tell me. That way i would have 
>>something to work off,iv just downloaded pygame and i haqve done all my 
>>practice using "idle" thanks 
>
> I know almost nothing about PyGame, but a quick search using Google
> brought this up:
>
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/pygame-users/2031142
>
> It could help.


Hmm... That's me wrote that, and I can't make heads or tails of it  ;o)

You might want to try pygsear (an extension package that uses pygame):
http://www.nongnu.org/pygsear/

To make a box you could then do:

>>> from pygsear.Drawable import Square
>>> s = Square(side=100)
>>> s.center()
>>> s.udraw()
>>>



From uche at ogbuji.net  Fri Nov 12 17:52:41 2004
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 14:52:41 -0800
Subject: Comparing two minidom objects
References: <727daa7e.0411081033.276d5eba@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d116fbae.0411121452.60207c1f@posting.google.com>

skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro) wrote in message news:<727daa7e.0411081033.276d5eba at posting.google.com>...
> I'd like to compare two xml.dom.minidom objects, but the naive attempt fails:
> 
> >>> import xml.dom.minidom
> >>> d1 = xml.dom.minidom.parse("ES.xml")
> >>> d2 = xml.dom.minidom.parse("ES.xml")
> >>> d1 == d2
> False
> 
> My goal is to decide whether or not I need to prompt the user to save config
> information at the end of a program run by generating a minidom object then
> comparing it with the last saved version.

http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/akara/nodes/2004-11-08/domlette-whitespace

Last heading.

Short answer: use c14n (xml.dom.ext.c14n in PyXML), or an XML smart
tree compare function, such as the one that comes with 4Suite.

-- 
Uche Ogbuji                                    Fourthought, Inc.
http://uche.ogbuji.net    http://4Suite.org    http://fourthought.com
A hands-on introduction to ISO Schematron -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/edu/x-dw-xschematron-i.html
Schematron abstract patterns -
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-stron.html
Wrestling HTML (using Python) -
http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2004/09/08/pyxml.html
XML's growing pains - http://www.adtmag.com/article.asp?id=10196
XMLOpen and more XML Hacks -
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-think27.html
A survey of XML standards -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-stand4/


From arsalan_zaidi at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 25 20:01:05 2004
From: arsalan_zaidi at hotmail.com (Arsalan)
Date: 25 Nov 2004 17:01:05 -0800
Subject: Packing up zope+products as an exe?
Message-ID: <583afd79.0411251701.28d8ca60@posting.google.com>

Hi.

Is it possible to bundle up a couple of products + zope as a single,
easily distributable .exe? Something like py2exe, but for zope. And
cross-platform (i.e. an .exe for Win* and binary for *nix)

I want my users (esp windows ones) to be able to start up my zope
stuff locally with just a click...

Thanks in advance

--Arsalan
http://www.achates.biz


From a.clarke11 at ntlworld.com  Thu Nov 11 20:52:26 2004
From: a.clarke11 at ntlworld.com (Tony Clarke)
Date: 11 Nov 2004 17:52:26 -0800
Subject: pickle: huge memory consumption *during* pickling
References: <cn00o5$r0j$1@fuerst.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
Message-ID: <3353cd1e.0411111752.2d3175d3@posting.google.com>

Hans Georg Krauthaeuser <hgk at et.uni-magdeburg.de> wrote in message news:<cn00o5$r0j$1 at fuerst.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>...
> Dear all,
> 
> I have a long running application (electromagnetic compatibility 
> measurements in mode-stirred chambers over GPIB) that use pickle 
> (cPickle) to autosave a class instance with all the measured data from 
> time to time.
> 
> At the beginning, pickling is quite fast but when the data becomes more 
> and more pickling slows down rapidly.
>(Snip)
> My feeling is that I'm doing something wrong. But my python knowlegde is 
> not so deep to see what that is.
> 
> Is there an other way to perform an autosave of an class instance? Shelve?
> 
> System: python 2.3.4, Win XP, 1.X GHz class PC, 512 MB ram
>
> Best redards
> Hans Georg

The tutorial books I read (including the Python Bible, I think) said
that pickle shouldn't be used for large objects, so I try to limit it
to smaller objects in small applications. I always wondered what they
meant by large objects, maybe this is an illustration of that? :)

Would it not be possible to save your data as a file, (or use a class 
method to download the stored data to a file) on your disc?  You could
always reload it from there for further use. Or split the class into
several smaller ones, each of which might be more efficient at using
pickle?

Regards 

Tony Clarke


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Wed Nov 10 13:56:27 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:56:27 -0500
Subject: "Rails"-like thing for Python?
In-Reply-To: <cmtlas$7r2$1@newslocal.mitre.org>
References: <cmtlas$7r2$1@newslocal.mitre.org>
Message-ID: <6vWdnbCSlZHH-Q_cRVn-rQ@giganews.com>

Jeff Blaine wrote:

> Specifically, I mean a generalized framework for
> rapidly performing web application building.  

These are just words that you read on a page.
Does it work that way? Is it all it is claiming
to be? I'm a little skeptical.

 > I am curious if there is anything like the Rails framework for
 > Python?

There are many excellent frameworks for python that may
seem to be more modest by their descriptions but work
exceedingly well nonetheless.

Istvan.


From falted at pytables.org  Fri Nov  5 15:26:09 2004
From: falted at pytables.org (Francesc Altet)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 21:26:09 +0100
Subject: ANN: PyTables 0.9 released
Message-ID: <200411052126.09409.falted@pytables.org>

Announcing PyTables 0.9
-----------------------

I'm proud to announce the availability of the newest and most powerful
incarnation of PyTables ever <wink>. On this release you will find a
series of exciting new features, being the most important the indexing
capabilities, in-kernel selections, support for complex datatypes and
the possibility to modify values in both tables *and* arrays.

What is
-------

PyTables is a hierarchical database package designed to efficiently
manage extremely large amounts of data (supports full 64-bit file
addressing). It features an object-oriented interface that, combined
with C extensions for the peformance-critical parts of the code, makes
it a very easy to use tool for high performance data saving and
retrieving.

It is built on top of the HDF5 library and the numarray package, and
provides containers for both heterogeneous data (Tables) and
homogeneous data (Array, EArray). It also sports a container for
keeping lists of objects of variable length on a very efficient way
(VLArray). A flexible support of filters allows you to compress your
data on-the-flight by using different compressors and compression
enablers.

Moreover, its powerful browsing and searching capabilities allow you
to do data selections over tables exceeding gigabytes of data in just
tenths of second.

Changes more in depth
---------------------

New features:

- Indexing of columns in tables. That allow to make data selections on
  tables up to 500 times faster than standard selections (for
  ex. doing a selection along an indexed column of 100 milion of rows
  takes less than 1 second on a modern CPU). 

  Perhaps the most interesting thing about the indexing algorithm
  implemented by PyTables is that the time taken to index grows
  *lineraly* with the length of the data, so, making the indexation
  process to be *scalable* (quite differently to many relational
  databases). This means that it can index, in a relatively quick way,
  arbitrarily large table columns (for ex. indexing a column of 100
  milion of rows takes just 100 seconds, i.e. at a rate of 1
  Mrow/sec). See more detailed info about that in
  http://pytables.sourceforge.net/doc/SciPy04.pdf.

- In-kernel selections. This feature allow to make data selections on
  tables up to 5 times faster than standard selections (i.e. pre-0.9
  selections), without a need to create an index. As a hint of how
  fast these selections can be, they are up to 10 times faster than a
  traditional relational database. Again, see
  http://pytables.sourceforge.net/doc/SciPy04.pdf for some experiments
  on that matter.

- Support of complex datatypes for all the data objects (i.e. Table,
  Array, EArray and VLArray). With that, the complete set of datatypes
  of Numeric and numarray packages are supported. Thanks to Tom Hedley
  for providing the patches for Array, EArray and VLArray objects, as
  well as updating the User's Manual and adding unit tests for the new
  functionality.

- Modification of values. You can modifiy Table, Array, EArray and
  VLArray values. See Table.modifyRows, Table.modifyColumns() and the
  newly introduced __setitem__() method for Table, Array, EArray and
  VLArray entities in the Library Reference of User's Manual.

- A new sub-package called "nodes" is there. On it, there will be
  included different modules to make more easy working with different
  entities (like images, files, ...). The first module that has been
  added to this sub-package is "FileNode", whose mission is to enable
  the creation of a database of nodes which can be used like regular
  opened files in Python.  In other words, you can store a set of
  files in a PyTables database, and read and write it as you would do
  with any other file in Python. Thanks to Ivan Vilata i Balaguer for
  contributing this.

Improvements:

- New __len__(self) methods added in Arrays, Tables and Columns. This,
  in combination with __getitem__(self,key) allows to better emulate
  sequences.

- Better capabilities to import generic HDF5 files. In particular,
  Table objects (in the HDF5_HL naming schema) with "holes" in their
  compound type definition are supported. That allows to read certain
  files produced by NASA (thanks to Stephen Walton for reporting this).

- Much improved test units. More than 2000 different tests has been
  implemented which accounts for more than 13000 loc (this represents
  twice of the PyTables library code itself (!)).

Backward-incompatible API changes:

- The __call__ special method has been removed from objects File,
  Group, Table, Array, EArray and VLArray. Now, you must use
  walkNodes() in File and Group and iterrows in Table, Array, EArray
  and VLArray so as to achieve the same functionality. This will
  provide better compatibility with IPython as well.

'nctoh5', a new importing utility:

- Jeff Whitaker has contributed a script to easily convert NetCDF
  files into HDF5 files using Scientific Python and PyTables. It has
  been included and documented as a new utility.

Bug fixes:

- A call to File.flush() now invoke a call to H5Fflush() so to
  effectively flushing all the file contents to disk. Thanks to Shack
  Toms for reporting this and providing a patch.

- SF #1054683: Security hole in utils.checkNameValidity(). Reported in
  2004-10-26 by ivilata

- SF #1049297: Suggestion: new method File.delAttrNode(). Reported in 
  2004-10-18 by ivilata

- SF #1049285: Leak in AttributeSet.__delattr__(). Reported in
  2004-10-18 by ivilata
 
- SF #1014298: Wrong method call in examples/tutorial1-2.py. Reported
  in 2004-08-23 by ivilata

- SF #1013202: Cryptic error appending to EArray on RO file. Reported
  in 2004-08-21 by ivilata

- SF #991715: Table.read(field="var1", flavor="List") fails. Reported
  in 2004-07-15 by falted

- SF #988547: Wrong file type assumption in File.__new__. Reported in
  2004-07-10 by ivilata
  

Where PyTables can be applied?
------------------------------

PyTables is not designed to work as a relational database competitor,
but rather as a teammate. If you want to work with large datasets of
multidimensional data (for example, for multidimensional analysis), or
just provide a categorized structure for some portions of your cluttered
RDBS, then give PyTables a try. It works well for storing data from data
acquisition systems (DAS), simulation software, network data monitoring
systems (for example, traffic measurements of IP packets on routers),
very large XML files, or for creating a centralized repository for system 
logs, to name only a few possible uses.
 
What is a table?
----------------

A table is defined as a collection of records whose values are stored in
fixed-length fields. All records have the same structure and all values
in each field have the same data type.  The terms "fixed-length" and
"strict data types" seem to be quite a strange requirement for a
language like Python that supports dynamic data types, but they serve a
useful function if the goal is to save very large quantities of data
(such as is generated by many scientific applications, for example) in
an efficient manner that reduces demand on CPU time and I/O resources.

What is HDF5?
-------------

For those people who know nothing about HDF5, it is a general purpose
library and file format for storing scientific data made at NCSA. HDF5
can store two primary objects: datasets and groups. A dataset is
essentially a multidimensional array of data elements, and a group is a
structure for organizing objects in an HDF5 file. Using these two basic
constructs, one can create and store almost any kind of scientific data
structure, such as images, arrays of vectors, and structured and
unstructured grids. You can also mix and match them in HDF5 files
according to your needs.

Platforms
---------

I'm using Linux (Intel 32-bit) as the main development platform, but
PyTables should be easy to compile/install on many other UNIX
machines. This package has also passed all the tests on a UltraSparc
platform with Solaris 7 and Solaris 8. It also compiles and passes all
the tests on a SGI Origin2000 with MIPS R12000 processors, with the
MIPSPro compiler and running IRIX 6.5. It also runs fine on Linux
64-bit platforms, like AMD Opteron running GNU/Linux 2.4.21 Server,
Intel Itanium (IA64) running GNU/Linux 2.4.21 or PowerPC G5 with Linux
2.6.x in 64bit mode. It has also been tested in MacOSX platforms (10.2
but should also work on newer versions).

Regarding Windows platforms, PyTables has been tested with Windows
2000 and Windows XP (using the Microsoft Visual C compiler), but it
should also work with other flavors as well.

Web site
--------

Go to the PyTables web site for more details:

http://pytables.sourceforge.net/

To know more about the company behind the PyTables development, see:

http://www.carabos.com/

Share your experience
---------------------

Let me know of any bugs, suggestions, gripes, kudos, etc. you may
have.

Bon profit!

-- Francesc Altet




From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Nov 22 12:30:13 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:30:13 -0800
Subject: Buffer problem on SunOS
References: <b012e8e5.0411220705.a870a66@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <donn-5620FB.09301322112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <b012e8e5.0411220705.a870a66 at posting.google.com>,
 gaool at caramail.com (gaool) wrote:
...
> If the responses of the send command are big, it fill the buffer and I
> can see as much lines of the response as the buffer size. And I don't
> see the rest of my response.
> 
> Apparently, it doesn't depend on the buffer size argument of Pipedream
> module.
> 
> In fact, it seems that there is a SunOS buffer but I don't know its
> size and what I have to do to set it or to delete it.

I'm not acquainted with this "Pipedream" module, but you may
be interested to know that the UNIX operating system provides
a system level read(2) function that does not buffer any input.
If you apply this function to a pipe file descriptor, it will
return with whatever data was in the pipe, or block if there
is no data.  That function is available in the posix module,
a.k.a. os module.

There's a pretty good chance however that it won't help, because
the data is indeed sitting in a buffer on the other side of the
pipe.  That isn't a SunOS buffer per se, except inasmuch as it's
provided by the C stdio library functions that your application
probably calls for output.  If it can be rewritten to flush its
output regularly, that will help.  Otherwise the only thing you
can do is try to create a "pseudotty" instead of a pipe, because
standard buffering policy changes to line buffered on a tty.
There are modules for this, but you may find an openpty() function
in the posix module that will work for your purposes.  In any case
this is not a simple solution, nor a cheap one in terms of system
resources.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 15:32:04 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 13:32:04 -0700
Subject: sublcassing dict without losing functionality
Message-ID: <d11dcfba04110112322e8862ab@mail.gmail.com>

I'd like to subclass dict to disallow overwriting of keys, something like:

>>> class SafeDict(dict):
...    def __setitem__(self, key, value):
...        if key in self:
...            raise KeyError('cannot assign value %r to key %r, value %r'
...                           'already exists' % (value, key, self[key]))
...        super(SafeDict, self).__setitem__(key, value)
...        

The problem is, dict doesn't appear to call __setitem__ in any of the
__init__ forms, so none of the following raise errors as I'd like them
to:

>>> SafeDict({'one':1}, one=2)
{'one': 2}
>>> SafeDict([('one', 1), ('one', 2)])
{'one': 2}
>>> SafeDict([('one', 1), ('one', 2)], one=3)
{'one': 3}
>>> SafeDict(('one', x) for x in (1, 2))
{'one': 2}

etc.  Is there a simple way to override this behavior in dict without
having to rewrite __init__?  There are so many cases in dict.__init__
that I'm hesitant to try to reproduce them all...

Steve
-- 
You can wordify anything if you just verb it.
        - Bucky Katt, Get Fuzzy


From austin at maxtronic.com.tw  Mon Nov  1 00:48:57 2004
From: austin at maxtronic.com.tw (Austin)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 13:48:57 +0800
Subject: How to change the combo box lists as my wish
Message-ID: <4185ce3d$1@news.seeder.net>

.................
self.diskList = ['3','4','5']
self.cB = wxComboBox(self,-1,wxDefaultPosition,wxDefaultSize,self.diskList)
.................

The code is executed initially.
If i want to update only the diskList, what could i do?




From jim at zope.com  Mon Nov 15 16:01:10 2004
From: jim at zope.com (Jim Fulton)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:01:10 -0500
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <20041114200132.20649.1982992758.divmod.quotient.5222@ohm>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<20041114200132.20649.1982992758.divmod.quotient.5222@ohm>
Message-ID: <cnb5em$g1r$2@sea.gmane.org>

exarkun at intarweb.us wrote:
> On 14 Nov 2004 11:09:38 -0800, hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant) wrote:
> 
>>Hello all,
>>
...
>>What amazed me is they write that they "added types to the variables
>>and hope that it will be added to the Python project too".

We didn't say that.  A reporter said that.  As Martijn pointed out, this
was probably a missunderstanding of our work on interfaces.

> 
> 
>   Guido has repeatedly stated that a future version of Python will include static type support.  The Zope project has driven numerous past changes to Python.  What's funny about this?

For the record, I'm against static typing for Python, although,
if Guido decides he wants it, I have an open mind. :)

Jim


-- 
Jim Fulton           mailto:jim at zope.com       Python Powered!
CTO                  (540) 361-1714            http://www.python.org
Zope Corporation     http://www.zope.com       http://www.zope.org



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Wed Nov 17 06:48:40 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 11:48:40 GMT
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<4195419b.303035081@news.oz.net>
	<slrncpgm80.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6381.1100534178.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpjcga.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6465.1100663898.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncpmejc.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-11-17, Tim Peters schreef <tim.peters at gmail.com>:
> [Uncle Timmy, explains why Python requires so little of platform
> threads]
>
> [Antoon Pardon]
>> I don't fault the current Queue implementation. I think your arguments
>> are very strong
>
> I don't <0.5 wink>.  Threading support in Python is forever frustrated
> by the seeming need not to make trouble for the oddball thread
> implementations we have but aren't even sure anyone uses anymore.  For
> example, the Python core could benefit from exploiting
> platform-supplied thread-local-storage gimmicks.  But we never move in
> that direction, because the prospects of implementing it for all the
> existing thread_PLATFORM.h wrappers appear too dim.  Instead we rolled
> our own implementation of thread-local storage, again building on no
> more than "the Python lock".  It's not particularly efficient, and
> especially not after I fixed a critical thread race in it just a few
> weeks ago, effectively serializing all lookups.
>
> If Python *could* assume, e.g., that only pthreads boxes and Windows
> are still interesting (it's clearly impossible that we could get away
> with supporting a set that doesn't include those two; it's not clearly
> impossible that we could get away with supporting only those two),
> then we could assume a much richer set of platform-supplied threading
> primitives to build on.

Couldn't it be possible to have a general solution that works on
any kind of box and provide (or let interested parties provide)
an implementation that is better suited for particular boxes?

>> But by limiting the signal module as it is now you make
>> it that much harder for people on posix systems to come up for a
>> different implementation on those systems.
>
> Who's "you"?  It can't be me.  Since I normally run on Windows, I pay
> no attention to the signal module, let alone stay up nights plotting
> to make it harder to live with.  Guido is another matter; search
> Google for, e.g, quotes like

[ quotes from Guido ]

Sorry about that, that was the general you meaning those that decide
what gets into python and what not. And yes I understand Guido has
some religious convictions and these influence on what he allows
in python and what not.

> I confess I had a similar hatred of signals in my Unixish days (they
> weren't portable, weren't reliable, & usually created debugging
> nightmares much worse than the problems uses of signals were
> introduced "to solve"), but Guido is the one who'll stab you in the
> back today.  I'll just cheer him on <wink>.

Look, I understand perfectly. Use of signals is never my first choice.
However there sometimes seem to be circumstances when signals are the
lesser evil. My impression is also that the python people seem to
have some obligation to help in debugging peoples programs. This is
laudable in general but I also have the impression that this obligation
puts limits on what they want to allow in the language.

If I hear people argueing about why some things are missing I get
the impression something like the following argument line is followed

     I don't want to be bothered by the mess that can originate from
     ill use of such a feature, I don't want to look trough code
     that doesn't work from someone who doesn't understand how to
     use this feature properly. So we don't include the feature in
     the language (or only put the C-function in).


And that is something I find regretable.

>> The problem I have with the current implementation is not so much one
>> of burden on the system but one of possible "starvation" of a thread.
>> 
>> Suppose we have a number of consumers on a Queue, some simply
>> block and others use timeouts. The current implementation disfavors
>> those threads with a timeout too much IMO, because the block
>> threads ask for the lock continuosly while the timeout threads only
>> ask for the lock periodically.
>
> That's certainly true.  OTOH, I've never written, or worked with, an
> app where, for a given Queue, some threads used timeouts but others
> didn't.  It seems strained to me.  Then again, I'm not sure I've ever
> worked on a real app where any thread used a timeout gimmick with a
> Queue.

Sure but simple Locks can't have a timeout. So if you only need locks
with a timeout then you use Queues that can only have 1 element.
I agree that having multiple thread accessing the same queue some
with a timeout and others not, is strange. But I think it is less
strange if you have multiple threads accessing the same lock, some
with timeouts and others not.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 16 13:45:29 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:45:29 +0100
Subject: adaptation
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<20041114200132.20649.1982992758.divmod.quotient.5222@ohm>
	<mailman.6390.1100553070.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbf8z.mirt8m687hvbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6397.1100570319.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnc2jt.uw5i19s61aieN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6409.1100591151.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gncdvv.1y2msbz1yc1gaeN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cxomd.93401$HA.21918@attbi_s01> <419A16CE.3050907@bellsouth.net>
	<mailman.6432.1100624085.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gncxxb.10h9cii1kmx5jN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> Well, my name is not Alex, and my answer will probably fall short of a
> comprehensive definition :-) But let's see if I can help here...

I think you did a great job!  May I recommend some further reading...:

http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0246.html
http://www.aleax.it/os04_pydp.pdf
http://peak.telecommunity.com/protocol_ref/module-protocols.html


> Adaptation is the act of taking one object and making it conform to a
> given protocol (or interface). Adaptation is the key to make dynamic
> code that takes parameters from arbitrary types work in a safe, well
> behaved way.

Hear, hear!

> The basic concept underlying adaptation is the "protocol", also called
> "interface" in some implementations. For all purposes of this
> discussion, and for simplicity reasons, we can safely assume that
> protocols and interfaces are equivalent.

Right, but, for the curious...: "Interface" mostly describes a certain
set of methods and their signatures; "Protocol" adds semantics and
pragmatics -- some level of conceptualization of what the methods _do_
and constraints on how they are used (e.g. "after calling .close(), no
other method can ever be called on the object any more").  This is a
reasonably popular use of the words in question, though far from
universal.


> A protocol is a set of primitives that is supported by a given object.
> For example: the iterator protocol defines the following primitives:
> __iter__ and next() (as documented in
> http://docs.python.org/lib/typeiter.html). Any object from any class
> that implement these methods, regardless of its ancestors, is said to
> support the iterator protocol.

...if the semantics and pragmatics are also respected, e.g.:
    x.__iter__() is x
    

> Any object that supports the iterator protocol can be used whenever an
> iterable is acceptable. This includes for loops and list
> comprehensions. The biggest advantage of adaptation comes when one
> realize how flexible this design is, specially when compared with
> old-style type checking. In a old-style type checking environment,
> parameters to a given routine must conform to the declared type of the
> arguments. For iterators, it would mean that only objects descending
> from some abstract class (let's say, "Iterable") would be accepted.
> Now, even with multiple inheritance, this design is severely limited.

In old-style Python, inheritance isn't really the issue (except for
exceptions, where inheritance does matter).  Rather, a protocol is
defined by a given set of methods.

An iterable is an object supplying a special method __iter__ which,
called without arguments, returns an iterator (any object which respects
the iterator protocol).  A sequence besides being iterable supports
__len__, AND __getitem__ with integer and slice arguments, and there is
a rich semantic and pragmatic web of mutual constraints between behavior
of __getitem__ and __len__ and iteration.  A mutable sequence is a
sequence which also supports __setitem__ (again with specific
constraints wrt __getitem__, __len__...) and is also supposed to expose
a rich set of other methods such as pop, append, extend, etc, etc.

This IS great BUT limited by what the LANGUAGE designer(s) sanction(s)
as 'blessed protocols'.  There are quite a few, but they're never enough
to cover the needs of an application or field of applications, of
course.  With protocols based on certain special methods, you have a
great concept which however is not really extensible, nor flexible
enough to help the authors of large frameworks and applications.

Framework authors do define new protocols, of course -- they can't help
doing that.  "X must be an object supplying methods 'foo' and 'bar' with
the following constraints...:".  This is OK for somebody who's writing
an application using just one framework -- they can code their classes
to the framework's specifications.

The problem comes in when you're writing an application that uses two or
more frameworks... the two frameworks likely haven't heard of each
other... one wants objects supplying 'foo' and 'bar, the other supplies
objects supplying 'oof' and 'rab' instead, with subtly different
semantics and pragmatics.  So, what do you do then?  You write adapters:
wrappers over Y with its oof and rab which provide an X with its foo and
bar.  Python is _great_ at that kind of job!

But, who applies the adapters, where, when?  Well, unless we do get PEP
246 in... _you_, the application writer, are the only one who can.
You'd like to spend your time developing your application, with
frameworks to relieve you from some parts of the job, but to do that you
also need to develop adapters _and_ tediously, boilerplatishly, apply
them to every object from one framework that's going over to the other,
etc.  Basically, you risk ending up with very *thick glue* (cfr Eric
Raymond's excellent "The Art of Unix Programming", great book also
available online for free) -- throughout your application, there will be
knowledge about the details of all frameworks you're using, spread in
thick layers of glue.


> Now, back to Python world. In many situations, there is no need for
> adaptation; the object itself supports the protocol, and can be
> supplied directly. But there are situations when the object itself
> can't be immediately used; it has to be adapted, or prepared, to
> support the protocol. Another situation is when an object is passed to
> a routine that *doesn't* support the required protocol; this is an
> error, that can be catched by the adapt() framework in a superficially
> similar but fundamentally different approach from type checking (and
> that's whats Alex has been pointing out).

Oh yes, VERY different.  Let me try an analogy...

A policeman's job is to ensure you respect the law.  He does that by
trying to catch you violating the law, and punishing you for that.

A civics teacher's job is to ensure you respect the law.  He does that
by teaching you the law, explaining its rationale, engaging you in
discussion to find instances where your spontaneous behavior might
violate the law, and working out together with you how to adapt your
behavior and your instincts so that the law gets respects.

Type checking is a policeman.  Adaptation is a civics teacher.


> The adapt protocol (as presented on PEP246 -
> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0246.html) defines a very flexible
> framework to adapt one object to a protocol. The result of the

...and yet the text of PEP 246 is still missing the specs about
registering "third party adapters".  Phil Eby's PyProtocols is much
better that way!!!  (I promise I'll do something about PEP 246 updating:
just as soon as I'm done with the 2nd ed of the cookbook....!!!!).

> adaptation (if possible) is an object that is guaranteed to support
> the protocol. So, using adapt(), we can write code like this:
> 
> def myfunc(obj):
>     for item in adapt(obj, Iterable):
>         ...

Hmmm, yes, we can.  It's a standard protocol so not the best of
examples, but still, it may be meaningful.


> Finally, one may be wondering, is there any situation when an object
> needs to be "adapted"? Why don't just check for the availability of
> the interface? There are many reasons to use the adapt framework. The
> protocol checking is one of the reasons -- it allows errors to be
> catched much earlier, and at a better location. Another possible
> reason is that complex objects may support several protocols, and
> there may be name clashes between some of the methods. One such
> situation is when an object support different *versions* of the same
> protocol. All versions have the same method names, but semantics may
> differ slightly. The adapt() call can build a new object with the
> correct method names and signatures, for each protocol or version
> supported by the object. Finally, the adaptation method can optionally
> build an opaque "proxy" object, that hides details of the original
> methods signature, and it's thus safer to pass around.

The main motivation I'd give is that different frameworks not knowing
about each other may define [1] what the object supplies and [2] what
the object is REQUIRED to supply -- there are often discrepancies, and
an adapter in-between is gonna be required.  With 246 (once suitably
updated;-) we can write the adapter ONCE, register it in a suitable
global registry, and 'adapt' will just find it.  Oh bliss -- as long as
adapt DOES get called all over the place!-)

 
> Well, that's a broad overview of the subject. There is a lot of stuff
> to learn, and using adaptation properly is something that takes some
> time. Hope it helps.

My compliments for your excellent presentation!  I hope my enrichment of
it may have proved useful rather than distracting....


Alex


From lbates at syscononline.com  Tue Nov  2 13:49:53 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 12:49:53 -0600
Subject: dicts & lists together
In-Reply-To: <cm8kki$4fi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <cm8kki$4fi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <TO6dneIm_NJRSxrcRVn-hQ@comcast.com>

Brad Tilley wrote:
> I have a dict that associates strings to numbers like this {'abc': 1, 
> 'xyz':2, '123':3,...} I am then given a list of strings ['abc', 'xyz', 
> '123',...] and asked to associate a number to each string in the list 
> according to the string's value in the dict. I am at a loss as to how to 
> do this, can someone show me where to start?

 >>> xdict={'abc': 1, 'xyz':2, '123':3}
 >>> xlist=['abc', 'xyz', '123']
 >>> tlist=[xdict.get(v, None) for v in xlist]
 >>> print tlist
[1, 2, 3]

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Nov 16 22:27:54 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:27:54 -0500
Subject: ctypes, accessing uInt32 and pointer to uInt32
In-Reply-To: <m3sm7arofo.fsf@flognat.dyndns.org>
References: <m3sm7arofo.fsf@flognat.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <cnegin$8o8$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Andrew Markebo wrote:
> I am taking the first steps letting python access a c-function in a
> .dll-file, but need some help getting it right. WHat am I missing? 

For posterity: this was also asked, and answered, in the ctypes
mailing list.

(The answer was, roughly, "__stdcall means use windll, not cdll".)

-Peter


From wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de  Mon Nov 29 12:28:07 2004
From: wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de (Wolfgang Keller)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 18:28:07 +0100
Subject: Parallel Python on PowerMac?
Message-ID: <1p1mclu2nq7e8$.1o0rc9ygt2rdy$.dlg@40tude.net>

Hello,

as I might get a dual-G5 PowerMac someday in the not to distant future, I
was wondering what options are available for making Python benefit from the
second CPU? Running two interpreters and using Pyro would not be the most
efficient (and easiest) way, I guess?

TIA,

Best regards

Wolfgang Keller


From svenn.are at bjerkem.de  Wed Nov 10 02:57:09 2004
From: svenn.are at bjerkem.de (Svenn Are Bjerkem)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:57:09 +0100
Subject: Help on installing PyQt on MacOSX 10.3 needed
In-Reply-To: <m_akd.996$yk5.922@fe37.usenetserver.com>
References: <mailman.6138.1099992201.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2vcc6oF2i91ltU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<m_akd.996$yk5.922@fe37.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <cmshkl$idu$1@athen03.muc.infineon.com>

Kevin Walzer wrote:
> Svenn Are Bjerkem wrote:
> 
> |
> | you are perfectly right. I went back to the documentation and paid a bit
> | more attention and with your information in mind, I now see that it is
> | talking about a selfcontained python with pyqt. I guess that I want to
> | use the qt bindings *dynamically*. That means that I have to find a way
> | to tell Python where to find the pyqt that I installed.
> |
> | In tcl I would either have installed into a directory in auto_path or I
> | would have extended auto_path. How is this done in Python?
> |
> 
> PyQt is installed in the site-packages directory on OS X--there's
> nothing special you need to do, it "just works" and loads up fine.

Well, then I must have done something wrong since I get the error 
message that there is no module called qt available.

On the command line of Python I did import sys and print sys.path to get 
the built-in search path. I checked the location where make install put 
the pyqt build vs the list of directories in sys.path and found that 
Python *should* be able to find pyqt. (There is a README file in that 
directory saying that this is the place to put third-party files, but I 
don't know if I have to do anything special in that sites.py which is 
mentioned in that README file)

When I do import qt on the Python commandline, which file(s) in the 
third-party directory will be searched for first? If I knew that I could 
check if make install was successful generating all needed files.

-- 
Svenn


From snesbitt at cobaltgroup.com  Mon Nov 22 18:00:46 2004
From: snesbitt at cobaltgroup.com (Stephen Nesbitt)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:00:46 -0800
Subject: Introspection Question: Determining subclass name in base class
Message-ID: <200411221500.46534.snesbitt@cobaltgroup.com>

All:

Here's my implementation problem. I have a base class which has the 
responsibility for providing entry into the logging system. Part of 
the class responsibility is to ensure that lagger names are 
consistent. For all intents and purposes this class should be 
considered abstract and will always be subclassed.

What I want to do is the following:
- allow the logger name to set explicitly. I've accomplished this by 
adding a loggerName parameter to __init__ in the base class.
- if the loggerName variable is None, then set it to the name of the 
subclass for which we are initing.

There seem to be two issues here.
1) determining the subclass name inside the _init__method in the 
abstract base class. All my efforts so far have resulted in the 
name of the base class rather than the calling subclass.

2) setting the default of a parameter to a function.

Can anyone help?

Thanks!

-steve
-- 

Stephen Nesbitt
Senior Configuration Management Engineer
The Cobalt Group
206.219.8271
snesbitt at cobaltgroup.com


From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Mon Nov 22 19:09:37 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:09:37 GMT
Subject: instant messenging
References: <d01od.8535$Qh3.3891@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<2004112108293216807%craig@yumaca>
	<TZtod.9969$Qh3.8066@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Xns95AABCDD15E3JanC@213.118.46.53>

Lucas Raab schreef:

> Ah, could you possibly have a zip file?? I looked on your site and 
> downloaded the BZ2 file, but I'm not sure how to extract it. I have 
> Cygwin for another application, but I don't know how to get the files 
> out the BZ2. So either a ZIP file or instructions on extracting files in 
>   BZ2 files would be greatly appreciated.

I think Cygwin has bzip2 & tar to extract files from .bz2 archives?

If you prefer a GUI application, try 7-Zip:
<http://www.7-zip.org/>
(version 3.13, don't use 4.x yet)


-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From apm35 at student.open.ac.uk  Tue Nov 30 17:37:35 2004
From: apm35 at student.open.ac.uk (apm)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 14:37:35 -0800
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Ice 2.0 released
References: <ketod.45140$K7.3294@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<ted8q0h19c4disktejd9ur7pdgec0h1hl0@4ax.com>
	<s7SdnfFRp_kLGjncRVn-1A@speakeasy.net>
	<22868227.0411300634.1d333921@posting.google.com>
	<0YidnREmZ8xECDHcRVn-oA@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <d1a33011.0411301437.6b2d0dbb@posting.google.com>

Marc Laukien <marc at zeroc.com> wrote in message news:<0YidnREmZ8xECDHcRVn-oA at speakeasy.net>...
> 100% of the Ice source code has been developed by ZeroC employees.

Fixes, bug reports, and enhancement requests have come in from Open
Source developers around the world, as can be seen from the forums on
the ZeroC web site.

Regards,

Andrew Marlow


From exarkun at divmod.com  Thu Nov 18 01:06:52 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 06:06:52 GMT
Subject: imaplib ... understanding the result from a fetch of RFC822s
In-Reply-To: <419bb3a7$0$259$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <20041118060652.27631.789348231.divmod.quotient.1921@ohm>

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:26:35 +0100, Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote:
>I am using the fetch command from the imaplib to fetch messages. I get a 
> result, but I am a bit uncertain as to how I should interpret it.
> 
> The result is described at http://pydoc.org/2.3/imaplib.html as::
> 
> (typ, [data, ...]) = <instance>.fetch(message_set, message_parts)
> 
> In RFC 2060 it says: "The data items to be fetched can be either a 
> single atom or a parenthesized list."
> 
> So I do a fetch like:
> 
>      mailconn.uid('fetch', '1:*', '(RFC822)')
> 
> As a result I receive the following results (from 2 different servers):
> 
> # mailserver 1
> messages = [
>      ('1 (UID 2 RFC822 {616}', "Received: from SNIP..."),
>      ')',
>      ('2 (UID 4 RFC822 {626}', "Received: from SNIP..."),
>      ')',
> ]
> 
> # mailserver 2
> 
> messages = [
>      ('1 (RFC822 {1155}', "Return-path: SNIP..."),
>      ' UID 1)',
>      ('2 (RFC822 {977}', "Return-path: SNIP..."),
>      ' UID 2)',
>      ('3 (RFC822 {1016}', "Return-path: SNIP..."),
>      ' UID 3)',
>      ('4 (RFC822 {1153}', "Return-path: SNIP..."),
>      ' UID 4)',
>      ('5 (RFC822 {732}', 'Mime-Version: SNIP...'),
>      ' UID 5)',
> ]
> 
> It's just a long list which seems to have the structure:
> 
> list = [
>      (envelope start, rfc288-message), envelope-end,
>      (envelope start, rfc288-message), envelope-end,
>      (envelope start, rfc288-message), envelope-end,
> ]
> 
> To me this is an odd format. It's sort of a parenthesized list, but not 
> really.
> 
> I guess that I can iterate it like:
> 
> for ((envelopeStart, msg), envelopeEnd) in range(0, len(messages), 2):
>      # do stuff
> 
> But I feel a bit uncertain that it won't break in some edge cases.
> 
> Does anybody have a clue as to why imaplib returns results like that?
> 

  Parsing IMAP4 is rather involved.  imaplib does a minimal job of it, and leaves many of the details up to you.  For a more complete parser, see Twisted's IMAP4 support: http://www.twistedmatrix.com/

  Jp


From roy at panix.com  Fri Nov  5 08:48:36 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 08:48:36 -0500
Subject: ?? Modules for GPIB and Ethernet ??
References: <21240387.0411041337.7b17172b@posting.google.com>
	<0-GdnfBAPrZPXBfcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
	<21240387.0411050533.4d145e2a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <roy-F071F5.08483605112004@reader1.panix.com>

In article <21240387.0411050533.4d145e2a at posting.google.com>,
 justinhsia at yahoo.com (Chaser) wrote:

> I have an equipment that's controlled through ethernet.  (The control
> program is currently written in C++.)  I guess my really difficulty
> is, how do I send commmands to that devise through ethernet using
> Python?

You havn't given enough information to give a good answer, but I'll take 
a shot.

First, you need to know what kind of protocol your device talks.  It's 
virtually certain that the device implements some kind of custom 
application-level protocol on top of some standard transport layer such 
as TCP/IP.  Assuming that's the case, you need to:

1) Find the documentation for the application-level protocol it talks.

2) Find out the IP address (or hostname) of the device.

>From within Python, you will need to create a socket, connect the socket 
to your device using the connect() method, and then use the send() and 
recv() methods to talk to the device.  You'll need to implement the 
application-layer protocol yourself.

The details of how to use sockets in Python (i.e. connect(), send(), 
recv(), etc) are documented in "7.2 socket -- Low-level networking 
interface" of the Python Library Reference.  To really understand what 
section 7.2 is talking about, however, you need to have a general feel 
for how network communication works in general.  Fortunately, the 
introduction to section 7.2 contains some pointers to some good general 
reference books.


From bowman at montana.com  Tue Nov  2 09:05:02 2004
From: bowman at montana.com (bowman)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 07:05:02 -0700
Subject: Matching Control Characters
References: <mailman.5798.1099379580.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2upifrF2d4fc5U3@uni-berlin.de>

Greg Lindstrom wrote:

> 
> Thank-you.  That does the trick!  If you would be so kind, where does one
> look up the escape values for control sequences?  As they say: Build a man
> a
> fire and he's warm for a day.  Set a man on fire and he's warm for the
> rest of his life.


If you are on a *nix box, try 'man ascii'. The applicable part is:

 
       C program '\X' escapes are noted.

       Oct   Dec   Hex   Char           Oct   Dec   Hex   Char
       ------------------------------------------------------------
       000   0     00    NUL '\0'       100   64    40    @
       001   1     01    SOH            101   65    41    A
       002   2     02    STX            102   66    42    B
       003   3     03    ETX            103   67    43    C
       004   4     04    EOT            104   68    44    D
       005   5     05    ENQ            105   69    45    E
       006   6     06    ACK            106   70    46    F
       007   7     07    BEL '\a'       107   71    47    G
       010   8     08    BS  '\b'       110   72    48    H
       011   9     09    HT  '\t'       111   73    49    I
       012   10    0A    LF  '\n'       112   74    4A    J
       013   11    0B    VT  '\v'       113   75    4B    K
       014   12    0C    FF  '\f'       114   76    4C    L
       015   13    0D    CR  '\r'       115   77    4D    M
       016   14    0E    SO             116   78    4E    N
       017   15    0F    SI             117   79    4F    O
       020   16    10    DLE            120   80    50    P
       021   17    11    DC1            121   81    51    Q
       022   18    12    DC2            122   82    52    R
       023   19    13    DC3            123   83    53    S
       024   20    14    DC4            124   84    54    T
       025   21    15    NAK            125   85    55    U
       026   22    16    SYN            126   86    56    V
       027   23    17    ETB            127   87    57    W
       030   24    18    CAN            130   88    58    X
       031   25    19    EM             131   89    59    Y
       032   26    1A    SUB            132   90    5A    Z
       033   27    1B    ESC            133   91    5B    [
       034   28    1C    FS             134   92    5C    \   '\\'
       035   29    1D    GS             135   93    5D    ]
       036   30    1E    RS             136   94    5E    ^
       037   31    1F    US             137   95    5F    _
       040   32    20    SPACE          140   96    60    `



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Nov  2 18:07:03 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 17:07:03 -0600
Subject: HTML to Text renderer
Message-ID: <41881317.2070803@colorstudy.com>

Does anyone know of a module that can render HTML to text?  Just a 
subset of HTML, really; I'd like to compose emails using <p> tags and 
whatnot, fill in all the values in the email template, then apply word 
wrapping and other formatting.  Also, it'll make using Zope Page 
Templates with email easier.

Even if all it supports is <p> and <br> that would be enough, but I'm 
hoping there's something even more complete out there.  I don't need 
something as general as, say, Lynx; these templates would be written 
with a specific renderer in mind.

Thanks.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From Kingdom.Lin at yeah.net  Sun Nov 21 00:41:27 2004
From: Kingdom.Lin at yeah.net (Donnie Leen)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:41:27 +0800
Subject: Is Python/C api thread safety enough?
Message-ID: <20041121054129.298591E4008@bag.python.org>

Thanks for help.

If the long-running function comes from third-party library such as zlib.compress(), we don't know wether the function is safety for python thread, it may cause error, how could we avoid this if we have to use it?

	

==================================

>Casper wrote:
>> Can sombody tell me is this possible? Thanks first.
>
>If you're going to call the Python C/API, you need to be holding the GIL. So you
>either can't release it, or the long-running function has to use
>PyGILState_Ensure when it needs to call the Python C/API.
>
>Cheers,
>Nick.
>-- 
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


Donnie Leen





From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Nov 29 19:14:54 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 29 Nov 2004 19:14:54 -0500
Subject: Number of colors in an image
References: <mailman.6820.1101494223.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<uekigxnj7.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<jkefq0lnon39snuuqru0tkhmc84o6efe54@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <uekic5h1d.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> writes:

> A set seems more appropriate in this case:
> 
> color_count = len(set(izip(r, g, b))) # untested code

Well, while potentially premature optimization, I was trying for
performance in this case.  In Python 2.3, the sets module is coded in
Python, and just wraps a dictionary, and when handed an iterable, ends
up looping (in Python) with individual dictionary key assignments.
Although I didn't specifically test sets, when I did a loop like that
myself, it was 5-6 times slower than directly building the dictionary.

That might change in 2.4 with the built-in set - it's still a wrapper
around dict but knows it's just directly setting items to a true value
so can avoid dealing with the tuples that dict does (not to mention I
don't have to build the extra tuple).

Although I expect the direct support in PIL 1.1.5 that Fredrik posted
about will be best.

> >For a greyscale, or single banded image, it should be faster just to
> >use the built-in PIL "histogram" method and take the length of the
> >resulting list.
> 
> More like the count of non-zero elements in the histogram; I believe the
> length of the resulting list will be constant (ie 256).

Oops, definitely yes.

-- David


From jhujsak at neotopica.com  Wed Nov 17 20:06:56 2004
From: jhujsak at neotopica.com (Jon)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 17:06:56 -0800
Subject: Parallel processing
References: <5c882bb5.0411170239.2e5f61e2@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6501.1100717187.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <51e59f27.0411171706.22a60438@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.6501.1100717187.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile) wrote:
> > 
> > Hello, this is a small tutorial page about NESL, an easy parallel
> > programming language:
> > http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~scandal/nesl/tutorial2.html
> > 
> > Its syntax shares some similarities with python one, for example:
> > 
> > function factorial(n) =
> >   if (n <= 1) then 1
> >   else n*factorial(n-1);
> > 
> > {factorial(i) : i in [3, 1, 7]};
> > 
> > This computes "in parallel, for each i in the sequence [3, 1, 7],
> > factorial i"
> > 
> > 
> > {sum(a) : a in [[2,3], [8,3,9], [7]]};
> > 
> > sum of sequences is already a parallel operation, so this is a nested
> > parallelism example.
> 
> The look of a language has nothing to do with its parallelizability.  It
> just so happens that the designers of NESL had a similar language design
> ideas as the designers of Python.
> 
> 
> > So it seems to me that Python can be already fit to be interpreted in
> > parallel, for multicore CPUs, Playstation Cell-like processors, etc.
> > (few things have to be changed/added in the syntax to make it fit for
> > parallelism).
> 
> There are various other reasons why Python is not as parallelizable as
> you would think.  Among them is the semantics of scoping, and whether
> there is shared or unshared scope among the processors/nodes.  If shared,
> then any operation that could change scopes would need to be distributed
> (ick), or if unshared, then you are basically looking at an
> automatically distributed tuplespace (LINDA).  It gets even uglier with
> certain kinds of generators.
> 
> Regardless of which one is the case, heavy modifications to Python would
> necessarily need to be done in order to make them happen.
> 
> 
>  - Josiah

Even considering the above caveats, one can still employ Python based
interpretive layers such as pyMPI over quite solid parallel computing
tools such as MPI. See http://pympi.sourceforge.net/.

--Jon


From lbates at syscononline.com  Wed Nov 24 09:51:20 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:51:20 -0600
Subject: Book recommendation
In-Reply-To: <30ictaF2vhlgoU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <30ictaF2vhlgoU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <H7ydnapI1aZJAjncRVn-vQ@comcast.com>

If you are running on Windows, "Python Programming on Win32"
is a must buy/read.

I also liked "Python Bible" a lot.

Larry Bates

Madhusudan Singh wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I am trying to teach myself Python. I have extensive prior programming
> experience in Fortran, a little in C/C++,  Pascal, etc.
> 
> So far, I have been reading online tutorials at www.python.org and a book I
> found at the library - Martin Brown's The Complete Reference Python. Is
> there a standard classic book to learn from that I could buy ?
> 
> Say something like Metcalf and Reid's Fortran 90/95 Explained or Kernighan
> and Ritchie's The C Programming Language.
> 
> 


From geskerrett at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 30 09:57:21 2004
From: geskerrett at hotmail.com (Geoffrey)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 06:57:21 -0800
Subject: Struggling with struct.unpack() and "p" format specifier
Message-ID: <6b26402d.0411300657.d575d75@posting.google.com>

Hope someone can help.
I am trying to read data from a file binary file and then unpack the
data into python variables.  Some of the data is store like this;

xbuffer: '\x00\x00\xb9\x02\x13EXCLUDE_CREDIT_CARD'
# the above was printed using repr(xbuffer).  
# Note that int(0x13) = 19 which is exactly the length of the visible
text
#

In the code I have the following statement;
x = st.unpack('>xxBBp',xbuffer)

This throws out the following error;

x = st.unpack('>xxBBp',xbuffer)
error: unpack str size does not match format

As I read the documentation the "p" format string seems to address
this situation, where the number bytes of the string to read is the
first byte of the stored value but I keep getting this error.

Am I missing something ?
Can the "p" format character be used to unpack this type of data ?

As I mentioned, I can parse the string and read it with multiple
statements, I am just looking for a more efficient solution.

Thanks.


From wh2005 at web.de  Sat Nov 20 12:40:38 2004
From: wh2005 at web.de (wolfgang haefelinger)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 17:40:38 GMT
Subject: unicode question
Message-ID: <qkLnd.22919$jf.19362@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>

Hi,

I wonder whether someone could explain me a bit what's going on here:

import sys

# I'm running Mandrake 1o and Windows XP.
print sys.version

##  2.3.3 (#2, Feb 17 2004, 11:45:40) [GCC 3.3.2 (Mandrake Linux 10.0 
3.3.2-6mdk)]
##  2.3.4 (#53, May 25 2004, 21:17:02) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]

print "sys.getdefaultencoding = ",sys.getdefaultencoding()
# This prints always "ascii" ..

## just a class
class Y:
   def __str__(self):
      return self.c

## define unicode character (ie. string)
gamma = u"\N{GREEK CAPITAL LETTER GAMMA}"

y = Y()
y.c = gamma

## works fine: prints greek capital gamma on terminal on windows (chcp 437).
## Mandrake 1o nothing gets printed but at least no excecption gets thrown.
print  gamma                                  # (1)

## same as before ..
print  y.__str__()                            # (2)

## encoding error
print  y                                           # (3) ??????????????

## ascii encoding error ..
sys.stdout.write(gamma)                  # (4)

I wonder especially about case 2. I can see that "print y" makes a call to
Y.__str__() . But Y.__str__() can be printed?? So what is 'print' exactly
doing?

Thanks for any help,
Wolfgang.











From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 11:39:42 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:39:42 GMT
Subject: pre-PEP generic objects
In-Reply-To: <cohf03$i8b$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <a8Oqd.110119$V41.14593@attbi_s52>
	<cohf03$i8b$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <in1rd.421380$wV.42429@attbi_s54>

Peter Otten wrote:
> Steven Bethard wrote:
> 
>>def __eq__(self, other):
>>    """x.__eq__(y) <==> x == y"""
>>    return (isinstance(other, self.__class__)
>>            and self.__dict__ == other.__dict__)
> 
> This results in an asymmetry:
> 
[snip]
> 
> Whether this is intended, I don't know. If someone can enlighten me...
> 
> In any case I would prefer self.__class__ == other.__class__ over
> isinstance().

Unintended.  I'll switch to
     self.__class__ == other.__class__
or
     type(self) == type(other)
Any preference?

Steve


From esj at harvee.org  Mon Nov  1 23:20:56 2004
From: esj at harvee.org (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 23:20:56 -0500
Subject: saved sys.path
In-Reply-To: <1gmlelr.q7q1rz5rc37oN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <%Xmhd.29071$g4.544104@news2.nokia.com>	<1gmkht7.1e1lg86qerk5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.5765.1099319253.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmlelr.q7q1rz5rc37oN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41870B28.9050600@harvee.org>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> The modifications to sys.path performed by .pth files are visible to all
> applications.  A single application may (however it chooses to do so)
> find out or determine a path it wants only for its own imports, and
...historical record deleted
 >  Python is not particularly
> different, from the point of view of "where does an app find its own
> configuration information", from most other languages.

from historical perspective, I understand and appreciate your 
explanation.  However, just because it's historically accurate, does it 
mean we should keep doing things the same old way?

In natlink, Joel Gould's python extensions to NaturallySpeaking, he made 
each speech recognition grammar environment either globally accessible 
or command specific.  He used the expedient technique of using the same 
name as the command for the Python file containing the grammar 
associated with that command.  He also used another simple technique, 
prefacing a filename with an "_" to indicate a globally visible grammar 
and code.  Turns out this was a frightfully useful technique as it 
allows for partitioning grammars.  Unfortunately, because of path 
problems it's difficult to share modules between various grammars.

It seems to me that a similar technique would serve for our purposes.  A 
file, command_name.path, would contain all of the search as necessary 
for a command called by the same name.  this technique would allow for a 
common platform independent method of finding application-specific 
modules and automatically generated paths for site-specific 
relocation/configuration.

As I write this, it occurs to me that a provisional body of code to 
experiment with the technique would possibly serve the community well. 
  I will generate something tomorrow for public scrutiny as I am up past 
my bedtime.  Thank you for triggering the idea.



From anthonybaxter at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 08:51:13 2004
From: anthonybaxter at gmail.com (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 00:51:13 +1100
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.4 (final)
In-Reply-To: <8sGdnQjN6qGu7THcRVn-3A@rcn.net>
References: <mailman.6913.1101817983.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8sGdnQjN6qGu7THcRVn-3A@rcn.net>
Message-ID: <e69d3ed2041130055178e5d1ec@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 08:05:55 -0500, Dave Merrill <dmerrillq at usaq.netq> wrote:
> Newb question: Is it possible/recommended  to have multiple versions of
> Python installed simultaneously? Earlier, I installed 2.4rc1, and a number
> of things in my 2.3.3 install stopped working. Are there known techniques
> for managing multiple versions?

If you're building from source, use 'make altinstall' rather than
'make install'.
This will install Python as $prefix/bin/python2.4, and leave the
'python' executable
alone.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  1 03:14:49 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:14:49 +0200
Subject: question de bonne doc
References: <418505b9$0$3662$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <1gmkhbc.yxlo8f10l5uq5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

orionlux <orionlux at voila.fr> wrote:
   ...
> les livres o'reilly sur python sont decevant

Vous n'aimez pas "Python en Concentr?"?  Je ne l'ai pas traduit
moi-m?me, bien sur -- mon Fran?ais, qui me vient encore d'une ?cole
superieure du temps de ma jeunesse, n'aurait surement pas suffit -- mais
il me parait n?anmoins bien traduit, et l'original Anglais, "Python in a
Nutshell", a eu une tres bonne r?ception.

J'aimerai bien de recevoir des critiques (je ne lis pas les groupes
Fran?ais, seulement comp.lang.python; merci donc de m'envoyer une copie
des message par courier ?lectronique!) pour m'aider a travailler mieux
lors de la prochaine ?dition.


Merci beaucoup,

Alex


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Sat Nov 13 20:28:26 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 02:28:26 +0100
Subject: Is there something like tcl "send" command in Python
In-Reply-To: <aa24ae0d.0411131646.6e57355f@posting.google.com>
References: <aa24ae0d.0411131646.6e57355f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4196b4ba$0$37789$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Peter Gordon wrote:
> Is there somethin like tcl "send" command in Python. I would like to
> be able to exucate calls in a python program on one machine from
> another machine.

After you added some infrastructure such as Pyro
(http://pyro.sourceforge.net), you can essentially
invoke methods on objects on arbitrary machines.

--Irmen


From onurb at xiludom.gro  Tue Nov  2 17:41:18 2004
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 23:41:18 +0100
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
In-Reply-To: <hu0l52-ml1.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
	<du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<4187b7a1$0$2383$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<hu0l52-ml1.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <41880b1a$0$19736$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Michael Str?der a ?crit :
> Peter Hickman wrote:
> 
>>
>> Just today we required a module that was not installed on our system.
>>
>> sudo perl -MCPAN -e 'install Data::Pager'
>>
>> And it was installed with all it's dependencies.
> 
> 
> I'd rather call that a security and maintenance nightmare...

<aol>
We had some program (can't remember if it was spamassassin or an 
antivir, I'm not the sysadmin !-) gone mad and all our customers mails 
blocked for a full day because of such a wonderfull update of a perl 
module...
</aol>



From siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk  Tue Nov  9 08:38:47 2004
From: siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk (Sion Arrowsmith)
Date: 09 Nov 2004 13:38:47 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: MySQLdb installation
References: <418f99db$0$175$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<418fba73$0$161$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<cmohqo$j1l$02$4@news.t-online.com>
	<418fcca7$0$165$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <-ji*zidzq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

T. Kaufmann <merman at snafu.de> wrote:
>Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>> Install the package mysql-devel.
>I can't find it!?

"libraries and header files" on MySQL downloads.
-- 
\S -- siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk -- http://www.chaos.org.uk/~sion/
  ___  |  "Frankly I have no feelings towards penguins one way or the other"
  \X/  |    -- Arthur C. Clarke
   her nu become? se bera eadward ofdun hl?ddre heafdes b?ce bump bump bump


From Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com  Wed Nov 17 03:47:59 2004
From: Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com (Pieter Claerhout)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:47:59 +0100
Subject: win32 extentions--  installer not compatible with python 2.3
Message-ID: <C6D9ED372BB1DF48B236D1417EA8B70629E7AC@CEMEX01.creo.com>

Yes, you can, but the version you downloaded is linked against Python 2.2
(the last part of the filename). You need to download the one linked against
Python 2.3.

Cheers,


pieter

Creo EMEA S.A. 
pieter claerhout | product support prinergy & synapse link | tel: +32 2 352
2511 | pieter.claerhout at creo.com | www.creo.com 

IMAGINE CREATE BELIEVE(tm) 


-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+pieter.claerhout=creo.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+pieter.claerhout=creo.com at python.org] On Behalf
Of mr_ravi_patil at yahoo.com
Sent: 17 November 2004 07:44
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: win32 extentions-- installer not compatible with python 2.3

Hello,

I am using NT4 and  downloaded the following Windows installations:

1. Python-2.3.4
2. pywin32-203.win32-py2.2 Url:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pywin32/

I installed Python 2.3.4 succesfully.
But when I run the win32 extentions installer, it returns a failure
message "Python 2.2 required".

So does this mean that I cannot use win 32 extentions Python2.3?
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From pastor.gabriel at wanadoo.fr  Sun Nov 21 07:12:44 2004
From: pastor.gabriel at wanadoo.fr (gabriel)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:12:44 +0100
Subject: xmlrpclib - error marshalling new-style classes
In-Reply-To: <16794.9227.867964.224036@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <24053689.1100608423575.JavaMail.www@wwinf0602>
	<16794.9227.867964.224036@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <200411211312.44570.pastor.gabriel@wanadoo.fr>

I have proposed a patch, see patch 1070046
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1070046&group_id=5470&atid=305470

Gabriel
>     Gabriel> I'm trying to send object using xmlrpclib, but it seems that
>     Gabriel> classes inheriting from object cannot be marshalled.
>     ...
>     Gabriel> Am I doing something wrong or is it a bug in xmlrpclib ?
>
> A limitation perhaps.  Can you investigate in xmlrpclib and submit a patch
> or at least submit a bug report to SourceForge?
>
> Skip



From andy at removethis.coolioh.com  Mon Nov  8 20:20:40 2004
From: andy at removethis.coolioh.com (Andy)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 20:20:40 -0500
Subject: AX.25 modules for python?
References: <qZydnYWNq5CBrRPcRVn-hQ@comcast.com>
	<mailman.6116.1099926578.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <IfWdnXOVgZMlhg3cRVn-og@comcast.com>

Eric S. Johansson wrote:

> Andy wrote:
>> I am considering writing some Linux based client applications for amateur
>> radio in python as a learning exercise however, I have not been able to
>> find ax.25 python modules.  Can anyone point me to work that has already
>> been done in this area?  The only option I have found so far is to use
>> SWIG and build my own wrappers for the ax.25 modules, but that seems
>> beyond my current level of expertise :-)
>> 
>> I have had success with python server applications using ax25d, stdin,
>> and stdout, but examples of python ax.25 server applications would also
>> be welcomed.
> 
> I don't believe there are any ax.25 modules.  too small a community if
> you're looking for amateur radio operators who are also python
> programmers.  I know of 2.  ;-)
> 
> I have a friend who is working on some wavelet image compression and
> data transmission schemas.  He's really really good at the lower levels
> but human factors are best described as not his forte.
> 
> ---eric, ka1eec

Eric,

I fear that you are correct about the size of the community of interest.  As
my python knowledge matures I may take a stab at creating an ax.25 module
in the hope that others with more skill will take pity on me and help out.

Andy, K3JSE


From mederis at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  9 09:53:58 2004
From: mederis at hotmail.com (Marc Ederis)
Date: 9 Nov 2004 06:53:58 -0800
Subject: sockets: How to know when your data is sent
Message-ID: <f00811ba.0411090653.5f6d1d29@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I'm having a problem with sending data with sockets over a dial-up
connection. When I use the send function, it will happily send a
buffer of a megabyte and more in one shot. But of course, the data is
still in the network buffer... Meaning you can't disconnect for awhile
(but for how long...). The problem is, how can I know when it's done?
Is there a way to be notified when the data has truly been sent?

I tried using setsockopt and SO_SNDBUF to reduce the send buffer size,
thinking that the data would actually send in smaller increments,
instead of putting the whole thing in a buffer and taking it out of my
hands... No luck. It all works, mind you, but I'm left clueless as to
when the data is really off my computer!

I'm just following the example in the Python sockets How-To. Here's
the send function:

        def mysend(msg):
            totalsent = 0
            while totalsent < MSGLEN:
                sent = self.sock.send(msg[totalsent:])
                if sent == 0:
                    raise RuntimeError, \\
                        "socket connection broken"
                totalsent = totalsent + sent

Is there something I'm missing, or is there a better way to do this?

Thanks,
-Marc


From faassen at infrae.com  Mon Nov 15 10:23:31 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:23:31 +0100
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <slrncpg94p.1f9.invalid@pixie.subbacultcha.home>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<slrncpg94p.1f9.invalid@pixie.subbacultcha.home>
Message-ID: <4198C9F3.9090209@infrae.com>

Nicholas Wieland wrote:
[snip]
> Sorry, probably I'm just tired (work to buy coffee <-> drink coffee to 
> work inifite loop, as usual :p), but I can't find where exactly they
> made such a claim. I'm really interested in this because a friend of
> mine (Volonghi) asked me exactly the same question... I think that
> "someone - somewhere" misunderstood what interfaces are, but I'm not
> sure. The only thing I'm sure is that I'm writing components for ZopeX3
> in plain old good Python from milestone 3 :)

This zdnet article made such a claim:

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/applications/0,39020384,39173322,00.htm

I think it's just a case of a journalist trying to make comprehensible 
with that Zope 3 interfaces do.

"""
Zope developers have also extended the Python programming language so 
that variable types are specified, rather than being loosely typed, said 
Richter. He hopes that these changes will eventually be given to the 
Python project.
"""

That or Stephan Richter didn't explain it very well. :)

Interfaces are just annotations for classes and don't change the dynamic 
typed nature of Python at all. Interfaces do allow for powerful 
introspection (which the component architecture builds), and they also 
function as API specification.

Regards,

Martijn


From wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca  Fri Nov 26 14:29:02 2004
From: wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca (Weiguang Shi)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 19:29:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: dictionary initialization
References: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<lIydnVF-WvXK3TvcRVn-jA@rogers.com>
	<slrncqciv9.ip7.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<co5j9k$jgv$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<mailman.6817.1101490908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncqerc9.sic.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<opsh3pirx21js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
Message-ID: <slrncqf0vu.tq6.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>

Caleb,

In article <opsh3pirx21js0xs at news.telkomsa.net>, Caleb Hattingh wrote:
> ...
>And then have x=1?   Is this the question of debate here?  One line of  
>initialisation to specify the type?
Right.

>
>IF this is the point you are making, and the awk functionality
>demostrated  in this particular example is a really significant
>feature for you in your  specific problem domain, then I must concede
>that awk is probably right  for you, and you shouldn't waste your
>time with Python.
Thanks for the advice. I'll stay with awk and shell for most of my
text processing (simple but, hey, 90% of the time I'm not doing
anything complex) and go Python for binary data processing and larger
projects. BTW, I think learning Python is a good use of my time.

Weiguang


From nchackowsky at gmail.com  Sun Nov 14 22:28:10 2004
From: nchackowsky at gmail.com (Nick)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:28:10 -0600
Subject: Combining arbitrary lists
Message-ID: <41982269$1_1@alt.athenanews.com>

Given that

n = [ [1, 2, 3], [4, 5, 6], [7, 8] ]

then the following code produces what I expect

for x in n[0]:
   for y in n[1]:
     for z in n[2]:
       print [x, y, z]

--output--
[1, 4, 7]
[1, 4, 8]
[1, 5, 7]
[1, 5, 8]
  ...
[3, 6, 8]
--      --

How can I do this for an arbirary length of n? This reminds me of those 
horrible fraction questions in 1st year comp. sci.
x = 1 + 1/(1 + 1/(1 + 1/(..... )))))... which leads me to suspect that 
the simplest solution is recursive... hmmm... I'll take any suggestions.



Muchos Gracias
Nick.


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Nov 27 12:59:00 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:59:00 -0500
Subject: dictionary initialization
In-Reply-To: <opsh3pirx21js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
References: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<lIydnVF-WvXK3TvcRVn-jA@rogers.com>
	<slrncqciv9.ip7.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<co5j9k$jgv$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<mailman.6817.1101490908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncqerc9.sic.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<opsh3pirx21js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
Message-ID: <coaf86$70d$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Caleb Hattingh wrote:
> IF this is the point you are making, and the awk functionality 
> demostrated  in this particular example is a really significant feature 
> for you in your  specific problem domain, then I must concede that awk 
> is probably right  for you, and you shouldn't waste your time with Python.

Unfortunately for the logic, if one finds something like
that to be a "really significant feature ... [in a] specific problem
domain", then with Python you can of course create your own
custom data type which behaves exactly as desired.  And in fact
it is likely that there is additional behaviour that could be
added that would make the Python approach to the problem *even
simpler than the awk approach*, but maybe that's getting too
much of a good thing...

Of course, this capability prevents one from whining about how
wonderful a specialized limited-purpose tool is compared to
that waste of space called Python, but if it weren't for people
like that Usenet would have no traffic and we'd all have lives
instead.

-Peter


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Nov 22 23:32:57 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 04:32:57 GMT
Subject: Is there a consensus on how to check a polymorphic instance?
In-Reply-To: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>

Mike Meng wrote:
> I'm a newbie Python programmer with a C++ brain inside. I have a
> lightweight framework in which I design a base class and expect user to
> extend. In other part of the framework, I heavily use the instance of
> this base class (or its children class). How can I ensure the instance
> IS-A base  class instance, since Python is a fully dynamic typing
> language?

The short answer is that if you want to ensure an instance is-a subclass 
of the base class, you should use isinstance:

 >>> class HasF(object):
...     def f(self):
...         raise NotImplementedError
...
 >>> class SubHasF(HasF):
...     def f(self):
...         return self.__class__
...
 >>> class NonsubHasF(object):
...     def f(self):
...         return self.__class__
...
 >>> isinstance(SubHasF(), HasF)
True
 >>> isinstance(NonsubHasF(), HasF)
False

However it's often not necessary to go this route.  Consider:

 >>> class HasNoF(object):
... 	pass
...
 >>> def use_c(c):
...     try:
...         f = c.f
...     except AttributeError:
...         raise TypeError('argument to use_c must have an f method')
...     return f()
...
 >>> use_c(SubHasF())
<class '__main__.SubHasF'>
 >>> use_c(NonsubHasF())
<class '__main__.NonsubHasF'>
 >>> use_c(HasNoF())
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
   File "<interactive input>", line 5, in use_c
TypeError: argument to use_c must have an f method

Is it really necessary that the classes passed to your equivalent of 
'use_c' are actually subclasses of your equivalent to 'HasF'?  Or is it 
just necessary that they support the appropriate methods?  If it's the 
second, I would just test for the appropriate methods and catch the 
AttributeErrors (and possibly the TypeError that's thrown if 'f' isn't 
callable).

If you can give a little more detail on your particular example, I (and 
others) can probably give you more helpful suggestions...

Steve


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Nov 19 18:55:01 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:55:01 -0800
Subject: Python switch for syntax checking
In-Reply-To: <10pt03bdpp7gp89@corp.supernews.com>
References: <obrnd.30846$jE2.25588@bignews4.bellsouth.net>
	<419e6581$1@nntp0.pdx.net> <419e6c1b.494654145@news.oz.net>
	<10pt03bdpp7gp89@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <419e9ab6$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Jeff Duffy originally wrote:
 > I've been wondering why python itself doesn't provide a switch to
 > check a file for valid syntax....

> Jeff Shannon wrote:
> Bengt Richter wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:08:00 -0800, Scott David Daniels 
>> <Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org> wrote:
>>> First, "python MyApp.py" does a syntax check anyway.  If MyApp is
>>> not a main program, all you get is the syntax check.  As for main
>>
>> ??? What does "not a main program mean"? I'm not sure what you mean, 
> 
> I believe that Scott is referring to the difference between a file run 
> from the commandline, in which __name__ is set to "__main__", and a file 
> that's imported as a module, in which __name__ is set to the name of the 
> module, which is normally the filename minus the .py[c|o|d] extension.
> 
I do mean something like that.  Essentially, I mean "if the file is
meant to be imported, rather than run."

> Of course, this would also imply that Scott is presuming that one is 
> following the good programming practice of not putting any significant 
> code (other than function, class, and global variable definitions) at 
> module level, except where protected by an 'if __name__ == "__main__":' 
> statement.  That *is* good practice, and most people do it, but it's not 
> required so perhaps not a safe presumption...

Remember, I am explaining why we normally don't have a syntax-check-only
option, and my thesis is that there is no perceived need on the part of
the core implementers.

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Nov 23 10:27:09 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 16:27:09 +0100
Subject: Help for a newbie in Python and ZODB
References: <39eca62c.0411212341.330dabdc@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.22.15.07.23.646763@thomas-guettler.de>
	<39eca62c.0411222353.4ad4f2bc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.23.15.27.08.878251@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:53:17 -0800 schrieb Jean-Louis Nespoulous:

> Thanks, but I'll use ZODB as server and I'll get and retreive objet
> from a distance client using XML-RPC, do you think it's possible
> easily?
> Jean-Louis

If you want XML-RPC, you need some http server.
This means you need quixote or something similar.

You can look at the Publisher of Dulcinea. It does
retry a request if you get a conflict error.

I recommend you to just take the start_request of Dulcinea
and write a small quixote Publisher yourself. 

Then return XML which is valid according to the xml-rpc spec.

HTH,
 Thomas


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Thu Nov 18 12:45:16 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 19:45:16 +0200
Subject: PIL for Python 2.4?
References: <6r6pp018glonqu2kqeau5ru9nhfj9fpchv@4ax.com>
	<mailman.6543.1100784027.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<b0cpp0tveaidq3lbnsvnji5apnloi4u2g8@4ax.com>
	<cnii5l$lq7$1@news1brm.Central.Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <nmnpp0phu81dpkdmkl16otaeu75pa4so83@4ax.com>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 11:21:09 -0500, rumours say that Christopher
Boumenot <boumenotspamyou at hotmail.com> might have written:

>You can download Microsoft's C/C++ compiler for free.  (It's command 
>line only, but good enough.)
>
>http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/vctoolkit2003/

<hitting my head on the keyb hguhynbuyh7nbuyh7j6nb>

Thank you!  Thank you!  Thank you!  Now that you told me I remembered
I'd read about it and completely forgot... ...and thank you!
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
"Tssss!" --Brad Pitt as Achilles in unprecedented Ancient Greek


From ruses at users.ch  Wed Nov 17 06:26:23 2004
From: ruses at users.ch (not [quite] more i squared)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:26:23 +0100
Subject: jython, pyrex, python.net...
Message-ID: <419B355F.6090401@users.ch>


Shouldn't there be a group working on endowing Python with an optiomal 
annotations syntax making trivial the (reversible) cross-language 
source-to-source translation from(/to) java or c# to(/from) equivalent 
python-jvm or python.net ?

Annotated-python-as-a-jvm/net-bridge-ly yours,

Morris Carr?
--
PS OK, I guess annotations management is a MOP issue. I guess ideally, 
"meta-python" should stipulate any implementation over a foreign vm/runtime 
should display the "delta-MOP" of the underlying object system. The zope 
database for instance would have a "delta-MOP". Jython is essentially 
someone's (Jim Huguenin's ?) invention of expressing the (python) delta-MOP of 
the JVM into (Java) code using Java's reflexion API while interpreting Python 
as a side-effect ;)



From TheDolphin at ivonet.nl  Tue Nov  9 13:55:10 2004
From: TheDolphin at ivonet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 19:55:10 +0100
Subject: Escape chars in string
References: <418fd4fb$0$147$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<mailman.6127.1099946663.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4191128e$0$772$3a628fcd@reader10.nntp.hccnet.nl>

"Jeff Epler" <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message
>Python 2.3 has a 'string-escape' codec.  If you have a string like '\\t'
>(a literal backslash followed by a t) and want to turn it into the
>string '\t' (a tab character), you can use it for that purpose:
>    >>> r"a\tb".decode("string-escape")
>    'a\tb'

>Jeff

Thanx!
exactly what i needed
Ivo.




From bockman at virgilio.it  Sun Nov  7 04:10:32 2004
From: bockman at virgilio.it (Francesco Bochicchio)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 09:10:32 GMT
Subject: checking a thread has started
References: <mailman.6001.1099749512.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.07.10.09.34.796410@virgilio.it>

On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 21:58:29 +0800, Deepak Sarda wrote:

> 
> My question is: how do I check whether a call to the start() method was
> successful? If there is a mechanism by which I can get this information -
> I can try restarting/recreating the thread.
> 

I'm not aware of any method in the standard library to do this. But you
could try using events for this purpose, doing soomething like this:

class MyThread( threading.Thread ):
    def __init__(self, id ):
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)
        self.idx = id
        self.actually_started = threading.Event()
        
    def run(self):
        self.actually_started.set() # signals that the thread is started
        # thread processing goes here
        print time.time(), "Thread %s started" % self.idx 
        time.sleep(3.0)
        print time.time(), "Thread %d completed" % self.idx
#
# you could try this to serialize the thread creation
# without adding the sleep. It should be faster.        
#
def start_threads_serially( num_threads, max_wait = 2.0):
    res = []
    for i in range(num_threads):
        t = MyThread(i)
        t.start()
       # wait that the thread is started before
       # starting the next one
       t.actually_started.wait( max_wait ) 
       res.append(t)
    return res

# selftest :-)
if __name__ == '__main__':
    threadlist = start_threads_serially(100)
    for t in threadlist:
        t.join()


if __name__ == '__main__':
    threadlist = start_threads_serially(10)
    for t in threadlist:
        t.join()
    

    
        


    
        



From bjourne at gmail.com  Fri Nov 26 16:04:44 2004
From: bjourne at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 22:04:44 +0100
Subject: dictionary initialization
In-Reply-To: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7C6D@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7C6D@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
Message-ID: <740c3aec04112613043a0b0d2b@mail.gmail.com>

> >>> del x 
> >>> x *= 5 
> 
> x should be bound to an object of what type? 
> 
> - 0 because x initialized to 0 by default and 0*5==0? 
> - '' because x initialized to '' by default and ''*5==''? 
> - [] because.... 
> 
> I think this is NOT a problem of explicit/implicit, is just a problem where
> Python can not guess what the user wants... 

Maybe Python can't guess it, but *I* can guess, with 99% certainity,
that the user wants x to be 0. :)

-- 
mvh Bj?rn


From mwm at mired.org  Thu Nov 11 14:22:31 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:22:31 -0600
Subject: distutils and Debian
References: <4192AD69.5040707@sympatico.ca>
	<slrncp5cf6.v8.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<qeGdnUA1FNXrJw_cRVn-oA@giganews.com> <cmuf87$fm5$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<NPSdnfYgfbIHRw_cRVn-gw@giganews.com> <cmuoju$ivo$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <x7u0rwnqbs.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Robert Kern <rkern at ucsd.edu> writes:

> And as I said, your interpretation has nothing to do with the way
> Debian and other Linux/BSD/what-have-you distributions use the suffix
> in their package names.

BSDs in general use "-devel" to mean the development branch of the
software in question, *not* the tools for those installing software
from some place other than the standard packages distribution. The
Python port installs all of python, including Tkinter.

       <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Thu Nov 25 10:34:59 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 16:34:59 +0100
Subject: Replacing words from strings except  'and' / 'or' / 'and not'
References: <mailman.6781.1101393976.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.25.15.34.58.739360@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Thu, 25 Nov 2004 15:43:53 +0100 schrieb Nico Grubert:

> Hi there,
> 
> Background of this question is:
> I want to convert all words <word> except 'and' / 'or' / 'and not' from 
> a string into '*<word>*'.

You can give re.sub() a function

import re
ignore=["and", "not", "or"]
test="test and testing and not perl or testit or example"
def repl(match):
    word=match.group(1)
    if word in ignore:
        return word
    else:
        return "*%s*" % word
print re.sub(r'(\w+)', repl, test)

Result: *test* and *testing* and not *perl* or *testit* or *example*

HTH,
 Thomas




From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Fri Nov 26 23:35:52 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 23:35:52 -0500
Subject: I installed Zope X3 on Windows 2003, but how to start it?
In-Reply-To: <1101446514.209755.293770@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1101446514.209755.293770@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <v6qdnVQYg-a1mTXcRVn-pQ@giganews.com>

McMeng at gmail.com wrote:

> I am new to Zope. I downloaded the Zope X3 Windows installer and
> install it, everything is okay. But how to start it? I typed

You'll need to make a zope instance then start that.

Read the "Notes on Windows" section on this page:

http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/ZopeX3300

Istvan.


From sean.berry2 at cox.net  Sun Nov  7 20:33:39 2004
From: sean.berry2 at cox.net (news.west.cox.net)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 17:33:39 -0800
Subject: Stop spaces from appearing when printing to file
References: <cmmgiu$id5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <418ec9ff$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <f1Ajd.235026$a85.74275@fed1read04>

> The spaces are a feature of print. To avoid them, use string formatting to 
> create a single output string.
>
>> print >> x,';',object,";",AN_string,";",ascii,";",sum
>
> Try
> print >> x, ';%s;%s;%s;%s' % (object, AN_string, ascii, sum)
>
> Kent
>
or....

print x + ';' + object + ";" + AN_string + ";" + ascii + ";" + sum




From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Fri Nov  5 05:52:35 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 02:52:35 -0800
Subject: CGIs and file exclusion
References: <2uvedvF2g1pv3U1@uni-berlin.de> <cmecq2$ksm$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0411050252.2d6c811b@posting.google.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote in message news:<cmecq2$ksm$00$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> I'd suggest using ZODB instead of directly pickling - then every cgi can
> open the database with its own connection. ZODB will manage concurrency
> issues.

Ok, but then I guess you need an external long-living process keeping the
DB open for you. If the cgi script opens and close the database by itself, 
the only thing the ZODB buys for you is raising

IOError: [Errno 11] Resource temporarily unavailable

(not unexpectedly). Here is what I tried:

$ cat concurrency.py
import ZODB
from ZODB.FileStorage import FileStorage

def openzodb(dbname):
    db = ZODB.DB(FileStorage(dbname + ".fs"))
    conn = db.open()
    return db, conn, conn.root()

if __name__ == "__main__":
    print "Opening the db ..."
    db, conn, root = openzodb("x")
    print "Storing something ..."
    root["somekey"] = "somedata"
    get_transaction().commit()
    print "Closing the db ..."
    conn.close(); db.close()

$ echo Makefile
default:
	python concurrency.py& 
	python concurrency.py

$ make
python concurrency.py&
python concurrency.py
Opening the db ...
Opening the db ...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "concurrency.py", line 12, in ?
    db, conn, root = openzodb("x")
  File "concurrency.py", line 6, in openzodb
    db = ZODB.DB(FileStorage(dbname + ".fs"))
  File "/opt/zope/lib/python/ZODB/FileStorage.py", line 232, in __init__
Storing something ...
    self._lock_file = LockFile(file_name + '.lock')
  File "/opt/zope/lib/python/ZODB/lock_file.py", line 62, in __init__
    lock_file(self._fp)
  File "/opt/zope/lib/python/ZODB/lock_file.py", line 42, in lock_file
    fcntl.flock(file.fileno(), _flags)
IOError: [Errno 11] Resource temporarily unavailable
Closing the db ...

BTW, it is clear from the traceback than internally ZODB uses fcntl
and probably a custom solution based on it would be simpler than 
installing the ZODB (unless the OP has some reason to want it).
But I guess you had in mind something different, care to explain?

  Michele Simionato


From gustavo.cordova at q-voz.com  Tue Nov 30 09:44:27 2004
From: gustavo.cordova at q-voz.com (=?UTF-8?B?R3VzdGF2byBDw7NyZG92YSBBdmlsYQ==?=)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 08:44:27 -0600
Subject: Protecting Python source
In-Reply-To: <cohcug$ert$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <f4a45085.0411260701.5859bf43@posting.google.com>	<lnSpd.18976$Km6.232360@news4.e.nsc.no>	<coesrc$24i$1@swifty.westend.com>	<mailman.6877.1101742321.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cofrqd$1d5$1@swifty.westend.com>	<41ab74f4$0$85031$a1866201@visi.com>
	<cohcug$ert$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <41AC874B.4030602@q-voz.com>

Peter Maas wrote:

> Grant Edwards schrieb:
>
>> On 2004-11-29, Peter Maas <peter at somewhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If the "reverse engineering" argument boils down to "protecting source
>>> doesn't make sense" then why does Microsoft try so hard to  protect
>>> its sources?
>>
>> To avoid embarassment.
>
> :) This cannot be the whole truth otherwise they wouldn't release
> embarrasing binaries.

BWAAHHAHAHA!!!

Damn you!! Coke is so hard to clean off a keyboard!!

Good laugh, thankyou so much :-D
-- 
Gustavo C?rdova Avila <gustavo.cordova at q-voz.com> 
<mailto:gustavo.cordova at q-voz.com>
*Tel:* +52 (81) 8130-1919 ext. 127
Integraciones del Norte, S.A. de C.V.
Padua #6047, Colonia Sat?lite Acueducto
Monterrey, Nuevo Le?n, M?xico.


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Nov  4 19:08:42 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 19:08:42 -0500
Subject: win 2003 server
In-Reply-To: <cmef57$7si$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <cmef57$7si$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <0-GdnfNAPrb1XxfcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>

Brad Tilley wrote:
> Does Python run on Windows Server 2003?
> 
> http://www.python.org/download/download_windows.html only lists the 
> following:
> 
> Python for Windows 95, 98, NT, 2000, ME, XP

I'm fairly sure "Windows Server 2003" is in no way significantly
different from one or more of the above items you list.  It's
not like Microsoft has gone and developed yet another operating
system!  It's a certainty that its biggest feature is that it
will confuse some corporate buyers into "upgrading", thus boosting
MS revenue for another quarter...

If you have a copy, downloading and installing a copy of Python
would be the most direct route to proving that theory.

-Peter


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Nov 17 13:01:41 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:01:41 -0500
Subject: thread, threading; how to kill a thread?
In-Reply-To: <m37jokwiqj.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
References: <m37jokwiqj.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
Message-ID: <cng3p1$7tc$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Jerry Sievers wrote:
> Wondering if there is a simple way from a main python program to kill
> a running thread?  

No.

> I see with the 'threading' module the way daemonic
> threads behave when the main program finishes.

This is one of several approaches, any of which -- or none of
which -- might be suitable for you.

What drives your need for this behaviour?  The answer
will determine the best approach.

> All I am trying to do is stop that thread immediatly from the main

Define "immediately".  In answering please consider issues such
as threads that are blocked in kernel calls, such as receiving
data on a socket, as well as data integrity issues (e.g. what happens
if by "immediately" you mean "at the end of the current bytecode
instruction", and if that implies that you may have system
data structures that are corrupted?).

> Didn't notice anything obvious in the docs like a 'kill' method or
> similar.  I don't necessarily want the main program to exit, just to
> kill one or more threads.

Searching the list/newsgroup archives with Google will reveal
past discussions and possibly some useful responses.

-Peter


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Tue Nov  2 12:13:34 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 12:13:34 -0500
Subject: extending file?
In-Reply-To: <f03f4fdf04110206455e46d101@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.5780.1099340819.5135.python-list@python.org>	<8vudnfFCkdgUDBrcRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
	<41879811.40002@bellsouth.net>
	<f03f4fdf04110206455e46d101@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4187C03E.60608@bellsouth.net>

<snip the whole thread>

So, with everything being said that's been said, here's are two 
questions for myself and for Chris Cioffi:

1.  How difficult would it be to modify file.readline() so it would read 
until a specific character rather than the standard end of line 
character(s)?
2.  What would be the best way to go about the above?

If anyone has any ideas, I think we would both listen with great interest.


Jeremy Jones


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Nov 19 19:37:44 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 00:37:44 GMT
Subject: generic object - moving toward PEP
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6631.1100909764.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6631.1100909764.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slwnd.429014$D%.407652@attbi_s51>

Robert Brewer wrote:
> Steven Bethard wrote:
>> >>> x = bunch(a=bunch(b=1, c=10), d=100)
>> >>> x.a.b
>>1
>> >>> x.d
>>100
[snip way to write this without a bunch class]
> 
> No, it would be written:
>
>>>>x = dict(a=dict(b=1, c=10), d=100)

I understand your point of course, but note that your code does not 
produced the desired behavior:

 >>> x = dict(a=dict(b=1, c=10), d=100)
 >>> x.a.b
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'dict' object has no attribute 'a'

Instead of having a class-like object, you (obviously) have nested dicts 
and therefore have to access them with [] (or the like):

 >>> x['a']['b']
1

Note that this is what point 3 was about: "Allows simple conversion from 
dict-style access to attribute access".

Of course, whether or not you want attribute access instead of []-style 
access is a design decision.  Heck, I could avoid ever writing a class 
again by just using dicts instead -- forcing all the users of my 
"classes" to use []-style access instead of attribute-style access.  The 
power is there -- that's basically what __dict__ is doing anyway, right? 
  It's not something *I* would do, but it's a design decision to be made 
nonetheless.

Providing a 'bunch' (or equivalent) class allows one to make this design 
decision (attribute access vs. []-style access) without having to 
declare a class every time.

> If you're returning a value that needs to be unpacked positionally, use
> a tuple. If it needs to be unpacked lexically, use a dict. I have yet
> to see an example where it's advantageous to support both

This doesn't really have anything to do with the proposal.  We're not 
suggesting a named-tuple here (though see a recent (current?) thread 
that is).  The 'bunch' class, or whatever you want to call it, is 
intended to support dotted-attribute access, in contrast to dict's 
sequential [] access.

Steve


From wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca  Thu Nov 11 14:07:31 2004
From: wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca (Weiguang Shi)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:07:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: crc32 to be used as hash
Message-ID: <slrncp7e3j.bdf.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>

Hi there,

I'm thinking of using binascii.crc32 as a hash-function when I read in
the reference
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-binascii.html:

   crc32(	data[, crc])	
   
      Compute CRC-32, the 32-bit checksum of data, starting with an
      initial crc. This is consistent with the ZIP file checksum.
      Since the algorithm is designed for use as a checksum algorithm,
      it is not suitable for use as a general hash algorithm.

CRC32 has been shown in the (Internetworking) literature that it can
be used as a good hash function. I'm wondering what's the concern
here.

Thanks
Weiguang


From mperpick at wgen.net  Tue Nov 23 17:21:49 2004
From: mperpick at wgen.net (Matthew Perpick)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:21:49 -0500
Subject: problems uploading zipfile with cgi
Message-ID: <D17DB304A9F42B4787B68861F9DAE61C0138067E@wgdc02.wgenhq.net>


Hello All,

trying to upload a zip file to a python cgi-script and I am having some
trouble. the form has enctype="multipart/form-data".

i can access the file as a string like this:

zip = form.keys['zip_file'].value

but I cannot seem how to create a ZipFile object from this data. It only
wants a filename or a "file-like object" in the constructor.

can anyone help? I am a little bit lost.

Matt
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From postmaster at earthlink.net  Wed Nov 10 06:59:16 2004
From: postmaster at earthlink.net (Daniel T.)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:59:16 GMT
Subject: How to find MAC address and uids?
Message-ID: <postmaster-718ADE.06591510112004@news1.east.earthlink.net>

I'm writing a script for work and to finnish it, I need two bits of 
information which I'm having trouble finding.

1) How can I programatically find the MAC address of the machine? Is it 
stored in a file I can look into? (MacOS X)

2) If I have a user name in a string how do I get his UID?

Thanks to anyone that can help.


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Nov  3 12:46:49 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:46:49 +0100
Subject: Extending Python questions
References: <aef9ef3d.0411030930.6091ddc7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cmb5i9$qbh$04$1@news.t-online.com>

> myshell.openconnection('www.yahoo.com',12,2000)
> 
> It's not only the problem of comfort - it's a problem of changing
> *some* scripts. And there's more than that - my shell functions
> already know how to handle it's arguments (which's number may vary),
> it doesn't need python to do that. All it needs is a pointer to a
> string representing the arguments (in our case "www.yahoo.com 12
> 2000"). I've tried using PyArg_UnpackTuple but without success.

Then don't specify the arguments separately, but instead make it one string
argument, and pass it to your command:

myshell.openconnection('www.yahoo.com 12 2000')


> So I have two questions:
> 1. Is it possible to move the calls to a upper level (i.e. call
> "openconnection" and  not "myshell.openconnection") ?

from myshell import *

> 2. Is is possible to remove the brackets and commas? (i.e.
> "www.yahoo.com 12 2000" instead of ('www.yahoo.com',12,2000)?

No. Thats too much of tinkering with pythons parser - you'd render all other
python sources useless, which I suspect outnumber your scripts by a degree
or two... :)
 
> final goal is to use the original commands if possible.
> thanks in advance,

What do you use python for in the first place, if you want to keep
everything as it is?

What you can do is to read your scripts _using_ python instead of _passing_
them to python - then you can control the syntax of your scripting
language. The main loop could look like this:

import myshell
for line in sys.stdin.readlines():
    command, rest = line.split()[0], " ".join(line.split()[1:])
    getattr(myshell, command)(rest)


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From nun at example.com  Thu Nov 25 17:15:11 2004
From: nun at example.com (Mitja)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 23:15:11 +0100
Subject: Replacing words from strings except  'and' / 'or' / 'and not'
References: <mailman.6781.1101393976.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <opsh1j3lcndob4us@localhost>

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 15:43:53 +0100, Nico Grubert <nicogrubert at arcor.de>  
wrote:

> Example:
> I have the following string: "test and testing and not perl or testit or  
> example"
>
> I want to convert this string to:
> '*test*' and '*testing*' and not '*perl*' or '*testit*' or '*example*'

A compact, though not too readable a solution:

foo="test and testing and not perl or testit or example"

' '.join([
   ("'*"+w+"*'",w)[w in ('and','or')]
   for w in foo.split()
]).replace("and '*not*'","and not")

-- 
Mitja


From spam at phpgeek.dk  Fri Nov 12 08:40:31 2004
From: spam at phpgeek.dk (Johan Holst Nielsen)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 14:40:31 +0100
Subject: Regarding color conversion (RGB->CMYK)
Message-ID: <4194bd54$0$75308$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>

Hi all,

I hope someone can help me.

I have do do a color conversion from RGB to CMYK. It's harder than I 
thought :D Anyway, here is my problem.

I tried some differents ways to do it - I have a TIFF RGB file that I 
need to convert to CMYK colorspace.

First of all I tried ImageMagick - it works - or it doesn't. Its give me 
an CMYK TIFF - but with way wrong colors :( Nothing seems to be quite 
right in that picture - tried google - and it seems that other people 
have the same problem as me :(

After that my thoughts was on PIL (Python Imaging Library). The colors 
was better - but to bright - cause it didn't include K (so it was 
basicly a RGB=>CMY conversion - Black is 100% Cyan, Magenta and Yellow).
I tried some googling - and again - some people said that PIL shouldn't 
be used for images that should be printed "professional".

Now, I don't have any clue about what I need to do? Is there another way 
to solve my problems? Any tools that can convert somehow? Or any kind of 
examples I can try to read?

It have to run on a Linux box - Python, Perl, PHP, bash whatever :(

Though about GIMP - but can find any information about how I can do a 
conversion in command-line? Any one having knowlegde about this?

Looking forward to hear from you and I will appreciate any kind of help.

With Best Regards,
Johan Holst Nielsen


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Tue Nov 23 19:04:56 2004
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:04:56 -0600
Subject: Enumerating Classes in Modules
In-Reply-To: <jKQmd.16312$Vk6.11976@twister.nyc.rr.com>
References: <jKQmd.16312$Vk6.11976@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <200411231804.56547.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Wednesday 17 November 2004 05:00 pm, Rob Snyder wrote:
> I have a situation where I need to be able to have a Python function that
> will take all the modules in a given directory and find all the classes
> defined in these modules by name. Ultimately, I would need to loop through
> all of these, instantiating each of the classes in turn and calling a
> pre-known method of each.
> 
> Finding the name of each module is not a problem, but loading the classes
> out the module once I know the name is where I'm lost.
> 
> The idea is basically to support "plug-ins" for an application I'm building.
> I want the end user to be able to sub-class an example plug in class, then
> throw the implementation in a given directory, where I'll find it
> automatically when I need it.
> 
> I *am* still relatively new to Python, so I fully appreciate that I may be
> simply going about this all the wrong way. Any guidance or redirection
> anyone can provide would be appreciated.

You've probably heard all you needed to, but I can show you how I did it:

When I started working on VarImage, I just wanted it to do resizing, but
I quickly realized I wanted to support a wide variety of image filtering
operators, so I devised a plugin system, very similar to what you describe.

The full source can be had at: http://sourceforge.net/projects/narya-project

But the plugin finding code ( Operators/__init__.py ) just does this:

# Find and load all available plugin modules:
 
operator_path = os.path.abspath(__path__[0])
for module_file in filter(
        lambda n: n[-3:]=='.py' and n not in ('__init__.py', 'Operators.py'),
        os.listdir(operator_path)):
    #print "Loading %s" % module_file
    f, e = os.path.splitext(module_file)
    __import__(f, globals(), locals(), [])
 
The magic actually happens in the Operators/Operators.py file where I define
a dictionary called "Ops" that holds all the plugin objects as they are loaded.

Abridgement of part of my "Operator" class:

Ops = {}

class Operator:
    """
    Image operator object.
    """
    def __init__(self, id, func, ...):
        self.id = id
        self.op = func
        # [... stuff to do with actually using the operator ...]
        # Register:
        Ops[id] = self

I didn't want the plugin author to have to understand OOP -- just write a
function with the right profile.  So I use an instantiation of the class to build
each operator plugin class instance based on the function they provide. All
the plugin author has to do is call this class at the end of their module,
with the appropriate function as argument (example from Operators/pil_crop.py):

The essentials are just:

import Operators

def trim(...):
    "Documentation text which my help method reads"
    return ...

Operator('trim', trim, 0, 1, (int,))
 
This says to define an operator with name "trim", calling the
function trim, which can take a minimum of 0 arguments and a
maximum of 1 argument, which must be an int. (not really
type-checking, it just says what it should use to convert
the string it will get before calling this function).

I think the main conceptual difference here is that instead
of trying to use magical class discovery methods, I just let
the plugin author tell me which functions he wants me to make
into operators, and try to make that as simple as possible.

Does this help you at all?

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From timr at probo.com  Fri Nov  5 00:19:19 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 21:19:19 -0800
Subject: CGIs and file exclusion
References: <2uvedvF2g1pv3U1@uni-berlin.de> <cmecq2$ksm$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c23mo05bflf3t4jpiii7sei7ock504003q@4ax.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote:
>
>I'd suggest using ZODB instead of directly pickling - then every cgi can
>open the database with its own connection. ZODB will manage concurrency
>issues.

Holy moley, isn't that something like recommending a turbocharged,
12-cylinder, air-conditioned SUV as a cell phone charger?

Sure, Zope is the answer, but only if you phrase the question very, very
carefully.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  7 02:40:35 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 08:40:35 +0100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5992.1099726289.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<jccro09uusa2pfr7qbhjpcsv6aifjsafgh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1gmvgrq.es8uri1pf1hb4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote:

> Maurice LING <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote:
> >
> >I've already said the following and was not noticed:
> >
> >1. it is a disk intensive I/O operation.
> >2. users delay is not in the equation (there is no user input)
> >3. I am not interested in the amount of time needed to develop it. But
> >only interested execution speed.
> 
> It is fabulous that you are able to enumerate your list of requirements so
> completely.  I'm quite serious; many people embark on even complicated
> projects without a clear understanding of the tradeoffs they will
> encounter.
> 
> However, given that set of needs, why would you mess with an "exotic"
> language at all?  Why wouldn't you just write straight to the metal in C++
> or C?

Perhaps because point 3 has _never_ been true as stated?  Nobody would
really be happpy to take 40 years more to develop a program in order to
shave a second off each hour-long run (well, maybe somebody _has_ taken
that choice 30 years ago, and we'll see their program in 10 more years).
There is always, at some point, a tradeoff - the only issue is where.
Otherwise, "to the metal" would be assembly or microcode, btw.

If a program is anyway spending its time waiting for disk, network, or
other I/O, the benefits of compressing the already-small CPU part are
tiny, by Amdahl's Law.  On the other hand, ease of experimentation with
different program architectures -- for example trying to overlap some of
the I/O waits rather than serialize them -- could still help.


Alex


From eddie at replicon.com  Tue Nov 16 13:26:22 2004
From: eddie at replicon.com (Eddie Parker)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:26:22 -0700
Subject: Should I learn Python?
In-Reply-To: <c718a6cf.0411161000.6d74e1a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041116182642.EB9281E4006@bag.python.org>

I disagree. That's completely subjective. To swing the "Force" back to
neutrality, I'll add my own subjectivity. 

I find PHP useful for what it does. Properly structured code is just as
maintainable as Python code, particularly with PHP 5 being more
object-oriented (or so I hear).

I think of PHP as more of a "specifically engineered to the web" language
(just odd that it doesn't support UTF easily, however, it's a good web
language, 'on the cheap'). 

Python does admirably, particularly boasting it's own BaseHTTPServer, in
case you don't want to rely on mod_python and the like.

I haven't benchmarked the two, so I can't speak about performance, but I
generally prefer PHP for web scripting, and Python for client side coding.
That said, I agree that it's subjective.

Probably the only thing I could say about why you should use Python over
PHP, definitively, is the Unicode support. 

Other good reasons, however, include robust object support, a fully featured
"Batteries Included" approach -- you can get everything you need done with
Python (much like PHP, but MUCH wealthier), and a good community.

Pro's for PHP, however? I *love* their documentation site. The ability to go
to www.php.net/WhatI'mSearchingFor is icing on the cake, but the static
pages, with user commentary at the bottom are excellent (I was glad to see
that PostGreSQL opted to do similar, too), and, pardon the frankness, much
nicer looking then Python's. 

But I think both languages are pretty equal in terms of ability to do
things, and I don't find I'm lacking in either. Minor discrepancies at best
-- but then again, I wouldn't say I have high demands on either system, at
this point.

</subjective> :)

Cheers!

-e-

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+eddie=replicon.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+eddie=replicon.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
Y2KYZFR1
Sent: November 16, 2004 11:00 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Should I learn Python?

sam at three60.com (Sam) wrote in message
news:<624a388a.0411030512.3cf84547 at posting.google.com>...
> So you're saying, in order to write smart, clean, well structured,
> readable code, and have fun doing so, I'm going to have to drop PHP
> and use Python?
> 
> I'm not really interested in finding a replacement for PHP, it works
> just fine for me.
> 
> I apologize for not phrasing my questions clearly, I wasn't looking
> for critisisms of PHP or why I shouldn't use it. What i'm really
> after, is given that I use PHP to develop sites currently, what types
> of situations would/could i use Python in web development? Is there a
> point when learning Python, that I'll say to myself "why use php?".
> Thanks

learn python and you will answer your own question, php is just about
1 rung above perl in maintainability
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 01/11/2004
 

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From bjourne at gmail.com  Sun Nov 28 16:10:31 2004
From: bjourne at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 22:10:31 +0100
Subject: The use of :
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.29.05.11.43.180223@jerf.org>
References: <89cc6e1f.0411251858.40b6bbc7@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.26.08.33.40.219098@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<89cc6e1f.0411260953.4b6b98e7@posting.google.com>
	<zyUpd.6$d74.2@read3.inet.fi> <41aa1abb$0$25542$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<30ukhmF357ptdU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<Avpqd.55491$Ni.1918466@twister1.libero.it>
	<pan.2004.11.29.05.11.43.180223@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <740c3aec041128131039686d4c@mail.gmail.com>

In the faq, http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general.html#why-are-colons-required-for-the-if-while-def-class-statements,
it is stated that the colon is there "primarily to enhance readability
(one of the results of the experimental ABC language)."  But can that
statement really be backed up? Has someone made a study or something?
I always thought the rule was "the less useless symbols, the higher
the readability." I.e:

if (a == b)
{
    print a
}

is less readable than:

if a == b:
    print a

Because it contains more non-significant symbols (, ), { and } that
"steal" the programmers attention. But consider

def f(x, y, z)
    print x, y, z

to

def f(x, y, z):
    print x, y, z

IMHO, the colon-less variant is more readable than the one with the colon.  
  
-- 
mvh Bj?rn


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 04:40:57 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 07:40:57 -0200
Subject: Is there a consensus on how to check a polymorphic instance?
In-Reply-To: <1101268711.261729.54980@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<KrKdnXvgGaP_Jz_cRVn-pg@rogers.com>
	<1101189570.958016.283130@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<-sSdnZs3heYawz7cRVn-iA@rogers.com>
	<1101268711.261729.54980@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041124014054130d9f@mail.gmail.com>

On 23 Nov 2004 19:58:31 -0800, Mike Meng <meng.yan at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I come from a very conservative background in software development
> > and strong checks are deeply rooted in my mind.
> 
> So do I, Dan.
> 
> I just can't imagine a `wild'  object whose interface is valid can
> truely do the right things. While in fact, when I typing this word, I
> realize we can't ensure the internal protocol will be obeyed even when
> the object IS-A base class instance.
> 
> Maybe it's time to rethink.

I understand, and I found myself using isinstance more often that I
would like to admit. Being trained in OO Pascal & Delphi it comes as
no surprise...
 
> It seems to me the virtue of dynamic langauge is, if it looks like a
> cat, it's a cat.  But the problem is still there: how do you know what
> it looks like before you treat it as a cat? isinstance(), , as Steve
> state, is too rigid.

Time for adapt(), I think...

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From peter at somewhere.com  Thu Nov 18 07:58:48 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:58:48 +0100
Subject: Python client lib for PostgreSQL8
Message-ID: <cni6e4$dl9$1@swifty.westend.com>

I just tried to connect to a PostgreSQL8 beta2 database server with
pyPgSQL 2.4 and got a libpq.DatabaseError telling "Ivalid format for
PgVersion construction".

Is there already a PyPgSQL version in CVS or another client library
that handles PostgreSQL 8?

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Nov  2 13:02:43 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 19:02:43 +0100
Subject: function object and copies of variables
References: <20041102174025.GA26478@marge.cehill.co.uk>
Message-ID: <cm8i40$cu2$03$2@news.t-online.com>

f = []
for i in [0, 1]: f.append(lambda a = i: a)
for j in f: print j()

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 15 18:05:04 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 00:05:04 +0100
Subject: Set like feature
References: <1100552512.672456.317420@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<opshi0u6ipdob4us@localhost>
Message-ID: <1gnbhc1.xndkcm1qpqfjsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Mitja <nun at example.com> wrote:

> > each element on a column by column basis.
> >
> > I am using python2.2 so no sets. Can anyone think of an efficient way
> > to do this?
> 
> If I understand the problem correctly, splitting the lines up and sorting
> them before comparison _is_ much better than a naive approach, though I
> don't know if that's what's best.

Splitting, sure.  Sorting would destroy the 'column by column basis'.


Alex


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Wed Nov 17 15:31:41 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:31:41 -0800
Subject: arrays
In-Reply-To: <cnfa5q$7eb$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
References: <a2f50cd.0411151042.45487164@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6387.1100545114.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<a2f50cd.0411170101.4c66e3ea@posting.google.com>
	<cnfa5q$7eb$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <419bc81d$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Robert Kern wrote:
> Rahul Garg wrote:
>> 1. I will mostly be storing floating point numbers in 2 dimensional
>> arrays which i will pass to a custom module written in C. The
>> application is for scientific computing purposes.I just need python +
>> wxPython for the GUI.
>>
>> 2.I am not using Numarray because i dont expect to do many operations
>> on the matrices in Python itself. Most of that stuff will be handled
>> in my C module.
> 
> You still might want to use numarray or Numeric in this case. The memory 
> representation of a numarray/Numeric array is the same as in C. You 
> won't have to duplicate memory and waste time converting between a 
> memory block of doubles and lists of lists of Python floats. 

If you want to refer to a block of memory that you share with your C
code (especially if the C code controls the memory, you might also want
to check out my "Blocks and Views" code at:

     http://members.dsl-only.net/~daniels/block.html

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org



From tony.ha at philips.com  Fri Nov 12 08:31:30 2004
From: tony.ha at philips.com (Tony Ha)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:31:30 -0000
Subject: Plone and mod_python
References: <7l1ld.13845$3_.7287@ns2.gip.net>
	<gr3aeg0wjjx.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
Message-ID: <_W2ld.13847$3_.7301@ns2.gip.net>

Hello Thornsten and Bruno

Thanks very much for the explanations, from your answers, it looks like, it
is better
to use "Plone + Apache". Is this means I need to install Apache, then Plone,
and
configure Apache or Plone to talk to each other?

But under the plone.org downloads it offer a bundle installer for Window XP.
Does
this mean the bundle will use Zope and the built-in Medusa as the web
server? and I
do not need Apache?



"Thorsten Kampe" <thorsten at thorstenkampe.de> wrote in message
news:gr3aeg0wjjx.dlg at thorstenkampe.de...
> * Tony Ha (2004-11-12 11:42 +0100)
> > Can some one explain what are the differences between "plone" and
"Apache +
> > mod_python"?
>
> Plone is a content management system (CMS) based on the Content
> Management Framework (CMF) based on the Zope web application server
>
> > From plone.org. It says "Plone is powerful and flexible. It is ideal as
an
> > intranet
> > and extranet server" does this mean if I use "plone" I do not need to
> > install
> > "Apache + mod_python"?
>
> Plone (in specific Zope) needs a web server to serve HTML pages. You
> can use the builtin Medusa for that or Apache for larger environments.
> mod_perl enables Apache without Zope to execute Python scripts (CGI).
>
> Thorsten




From philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net  Fri Nov 26 06:57:58 2004
From: philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 05:57:58 -0600
Subject: Delphi underrated, IDE clues for Python
Message-ID: <200411260557.58986.philippecmartin@sbcglobal.net>

I like eric3 (http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html) very much but 
it's a QT 'aware' environment and I need Tkinter for portability/$ reasons.

So I'm back to lovely emacs (thanks again and again Mr. RS) and snavigator 
(http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourcenav) when it comes to heavy project 
browsing. 

My needs in GUI are trivial enough; so I'm perfectly happy now.

Regards,

Philippe



From grante at visi.com  Tue Nov 16 23:24:22 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 04:24:22 GMT
Subject: Rounding curiosity
References: <20041116182254.6cb5a603.bartley9@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <419ad276$0$1581$a1866201@visi.com>

On 2004-11-17, PyBo <bartley9 at pacbell.net> wrote:

> What's wrong with this picture?

Wrong is in the mind of the beholder.  ;)

>>>> x = 500000000.0
>>>> y = x / (1024 * 1024)
>>>> y
> 476.837158203125
>>>> z = round(y, 2)
>>>> z
> 476.83999999999997
>
> I have tried this and get the same result using different
> CPU's and operating systems.

There's a reason for that:

  http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general.html#why-are-floating-point-calculations-so-inaccurate
  http://docs.python.org/tut/node15.html

> Obviously, '476.83999999999997' is not rounded to two decimal
> places.

Of course it isn't.  Computers don't use decimal.  They use
binary: aye, there's the rub...

> Or am I doing something wrong?

You're using binary floating point math without understanding
it.  If you tell us what you're actually trying to accomplish,
we can probably tell you how to do it.  

If you're just worried about how it looks on the screen:

>>> print "%0.2f" % round(5e8/(1024*1024),2)
476.84

If you want the computer to fib for you, it will. :)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  PUNK ROCK!! DISCO
                                  at               DUCK!! BIRTH CONTROL!!
                               visi.com            


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Nov  4 07:52:37 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 13:52:37 +0100
Subject: SystemError: com_backpatch: offset too large
References: <781f5e76.0411032335.57bf5ae4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cmd8ml$k1o$02$4@news.t-online.com>

>
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=fr&lr=&client=firefox-a&threadm=mailman.165.1085189105.6949.python-list%40python.org&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dcom_backpatch%26hl%3Dfr%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26tab%3Dwg
> 
> There is a solution?
> Do i to give up python and return to php?
> 

I can't believe that a program with 10000 lines only adding strings can't be
written in a more concise way, which would most probably solve your
problem. So I suggest you post some parts of your code so that we can have
a look at it and suggest a solution.

Apart from that, it seems that if you insist on doing things the way you do
them ringht now, you'll have to stick with php. Sad to admit that, but it
appears to be that way...

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From atterdan at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  5 04:46:20 2004
From: atterdan at yahoo.com (John Doe)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 09:46:20 GMT
Subject: recursion in __cmp__
References: <3da35075.0411050045.379477af@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.05.09.44.37.779583@yahoo.com>

Really Victor,
no one comments on old versions. Try it on 2.3.

Dan

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 00:45:28 -0800, Victor Safronovich wrote:

> please comment this
> Python 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
>>>> class A:
>         def __cmp__(self, other):
>                 print '%s|%s' %(`self`, `other`)
>                 return cmp(self, other)
> 
>>>> a = A()
>>>> cmp(a,A())
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|<__main__.A instance at 0x0097D120>
> 0
>>>> cmp(a,5)
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
> <__main__.A instance at 0x00989838>|5
> 0



From pepe_0816 at yahoo.com.tw  Sun Nov 28 07:04:32 2004
From: pepe_0816 at yahoo.com.tw (˝âşë)
Date: 28 Nov 2004 12:04:32 GMT
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?=A9=CA=AB=BD=AB=BD=BC=F6=BDu?=
Message-ID: <cocesg$qs31763@imsp212.netvigator.com>

?????????? +86 13180152666



From lisawill4u at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 20 15:35:53 2004
From: lisawill4u at yahoo.com (CLAIM YOUR TWO FREE UNIVERSAL STUDIOS TICKETS!)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 20:35:53 GMT
Subject: CLAIM YOUR TWO FREE UNIVERSAL STUDIOS TICKETS!
Message-ID: <04112015355317948@news-server.cfl.rr.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20041120/3415993d/attachment.html>

From maarten at remove_this_ws.tn.tudelft.nl  Tue Nov 23 04:06:33 2004
From: maarten at remove_this_ws.tn.tudelft.nl (Maarten van Reeuwijk)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:06:33 +0100
Subject: PyTables:Installing hdf5
References: <37ee60c8.0411120648.3a2ad4c6@posting.google.com>
	<cn2ml8$des$1@news.tudelft.nl>
	<d40d7104.0411221343.4fd1627d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cnuuip$ro6$1@news.tudelft.nl>

prashna wrote:

> Hi Maarten,
> I am completely new to VC++ environment and trying to learn HDF5
> format.
> I copied the entire directory from
> ftp://ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu/HDF/HDF5/current/bin/windows/ and also
> ftp://ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu/HDF/lib-external/zlib/and
> ftp://ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu/HDF/lib-external/szip/
> I have followed all the steps that was explained in COMPILE.txt for
> static libraries.But still, I am getting  the following error...
> 
> Linking...
> LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot open file "libm.lib"
> Error executing link.exe.

Dunno have no recent experience with VC++. Just google on "libm visual c++"
and follow the first link.

Maarten

-- 
===================================================================
Maarten van Reeuwijk                    Thermal and Fluids Sciences
Phd student                             dept. of Multiscale Physics
www.ws.tn.tudelft.nl                 Delft University of Technology


From mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net  Sun Nov 28 12:35:03 2004
From: mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net (Jean Brouwers)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 17:35:03 GMT
Subject: files in non-blocking mode?
References: <cock5m$lq5$1@news2.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de> <uj1p72-cd7.ln1@valpo.de>
	<cocrun$qqu$1@news2.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Message-ID: <281120040936372124%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>


Try setting the unbuffered mode for the spawned process by using

  "python -u ./amc/amc.py"


/Jean Brouwers


In article <cocrun$qqu$1 at news2.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>, Uwe Mayer
<merkosh at hadiko.de> wrote:

> Sunday 28 November 2004 14:49 pm Mathias Waack wrote:
> 
> > Uwe Mayer wrote:
> >> I want two python programs to communicate over stdIO channels. The
> >> one executes the other via the popen3 function:
> >> 
> >> amc = Popen3("./amc/amc.py", True, 0)
> >> line = stdin.readline()
> >> amc.tochild.write(line)
> >> amc.tochild.flush()
> >> print amc.fromchild.readlines()
> >> 
> >> The problem is that although amc.tochild gets flushed the data
> >> never reaches the client until the .tochild fd is closed. Is there
> >> any way to put IO channels into non-blocking mode in python?
>  
> > How do you read the data in the client? Maybe you're using a line
> > buffered read? Does your code work if the server includes a trailing
> > CR and/or NL in the string before it calls the flush?
> 
> Yes, I used 
> 
> line = stdin.readline()
> 
> and made sure the sending client had a newline ("\n") char appended to the
> text. Still, the receiving client's readline() function does not return.
> 
> Uwe


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Nov 22 03:37:10 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:37:10 +0100
Subject: generic object implementation
References: <8W9od.373195$wV.310530@attbi_s54>
Message-ID: <cns8fn$7lt$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Steven Bethard wrote:

> So I'm trying to get a prototype implementation of the 'generic object'
> type.  (I'm currently calling it 'bunch', but only because I can't
> really think of anything better.)  I'd like some feedback on what

Me neither. I called my bunch equivalent Struct, but that name seems
ambiguous because of the struct module.

> methods it needs to support.  Ideally I'd keep this as minimal as
> possible...
> 
> Remember that the goal of the 'generic object' type is to allow the
> programmer to make the design decision that attribute-style access is
> more appropriate than []-style access.  Given that, my feeling is that
> the 'generic object' type should *not* support __(get|set|del)item__ ,
> though I'm still undecided on __len__, __iter__, __contains__, items,
> keys, values, etc.

Please, no. (except __iter__(), maybe)

> 
> Here's what I have currently:
> 
> import operator as _operator
> 
> class bunch(object):
>      def __init__(self, **kwds):
>          self.__dict__.update(kwds)
> 
>      def __eq__(self, other):

Maybe just
           return (type(self) == type(other) 
                   and self.__dict__ == other.__dict__)

as you won't get properties right anyway. 
Not sure whether that should be enforced, but subclassing bunch doesn't seem
a good idea to me.
                      
>          if not isinstance(other, bunch):
>              return False
>          attrs = set(self.__dict__)
>          if attrs != set(other.__dict__):
>              return False
>          for attr in attrs:
>              if not getattr(self, attr) == getattr(other, attr):
>                  return False
>          return True
> 
>      def __repr__(self):
>          return '%s(%s)' % (self.__class__.__name__,
>                             ', '.join('%s=%r' % (k, v)
>                                       for k, v in self.__dict__.items()))
> 
>      def update(self, other):
>          self.__dict__.update(other.__dict__)

I don't think update() is necessary, but if so, I'd rather have (untested)

       def update(self, *other, **kw):
           if other:
               if len(other) != 1: 
                   raise TypeError
               other = other[0]
               if isinstance(other, bunch):
                   other = other.__dict__
               self.__dict__.update(other)
           self.__dict__.update(kw)

i. e. something matching 2.4's dict.update() functionality as closely as
possible (and appropriate).

> 
>      @classmethod
>      def frommapping(cls, mapping,
>                      getkeys=iter, getitem=_operator.getitem):
>          result = bunch()

Substitute bunch with cls throughout. 
Should there also be a getpairs argument that would yield (key, value)
pairs?

>          for key in getkeys(mapping):
>              value = getitem(mapping, key)
>              try:
>                  value = bunch.frommapping(value)
>              except TypeError:
>                  pass
>              setattr(result, key, value)
>          return result

Seeing how many aspects are to consider with such a simple thing as a bunch,
it would really be a benefit if one standard approach were available to
substitute all the ad hoc solutions currently out there in the wild.
Good luck with your effort.

Peter



From normanb at DOGcomsine.co.uk  Fri Nov  5 10:53:04 2004
From: normanb at DOGcomsine.co.uk (Norman Barker)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:53:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python compressed URL post
Message-ID: <cmg7l0$4nr$1@sparta.btinternet.com>

Hi,

I have spent most of the day on this so any help would be appreciated.

I have set up mod_deflate in Apache so that any input marked 
content-type gzip from the client is automatically decompressed before 
being forwarded on to the server-side java servlet.

The idea is that I compress a file on the client write it to the stream 
and then it reaches the servlet decompressed through Apache.  At the 
moment when I try to open the URL it fails with an internal server 
error, which I guess is because my code is wrong

import httplib, urllib2, StringIO, gzip

httplib.HTTPConnection.debuglevel = 1
filename = 'd:/myproject/schemas/samples/request.xml'
file = open(filename, 'r')

buf = file.read()

print 'decompressed request buffer size is ', len(buf)
zbuf = StringIO.StringIO()
zfile = gzip.GzipFile(mode = 'wb',  fileobj = zbuf, compresslevel = 9)
zfile.write(buf);
zfile.close()


print 'compressed request file size is ', len(zbuf.getvalue())


request = 
urllib2.Request('http://localhost/cocoon/compressed.xml',zbuf.getvalue())
opener = urllib2.build_opener()
request.add_header('User-Agent', 'A User')
request.add_header('Accept-Encoding', 'gzip, deflate')
request.add_header('Content-Type', 'application/xml')
request.add_header('Content-Encoding', 'gzip')
request.add_header('Content-Length', str(len(zbuf.getvalue())))


## fails here
f = opener.open(request)

compresseddata = f.read()
print 'Compressed response length ', compresseddata.size

compressedstream = StringIO.StringIO(compresseddata)
gzipper = gzip.GzipFile(fileobj=compressedstream)
data = gzipper.read()
print 'Decompressed response length ', len(data)
print data


Many thanks,

Norman Barker

-- 
Take the DOG out to reply


From Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU  Tue Nov 16 08:10:15 2004
From: Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU (Michael J. Fromberger)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:10:15 -0500
Subject: Identifying bundles in MacOS X
References: <Michael.J.Fromberger-2CA6CC.17042111112004@localhost>
	<2vt7veF2nues7U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<Michael.J.Fromberger-252D87.23144415112004@localhost>
	<2vtsp6F2nlt2cU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Michael.J.Fromberger-EB99FA.08101516112004@localhost>

In article <2vtsp6F2nlt2cU1 at uni-berlin.de>,
 Brion Vibber <brion at pobox.com> wrote:

> Michael J. Fromberger wrote:
> > Actually, Apple's developer documentation seems to imply that there 
> > is a "bundle bit" in the Finder info (or possibly the extended 
> > Finder info) for directories, and that if this bit is set, the 
> > Finder will treat the folder as a bundle.
> 
> It's worse than that... the bundle bit _might_ or _might not_ matter, 
> since it's not always present, and some extensions are known or not 
> or... ugh.

The plot thickens!  

> I'm not sure if there's a standard Python module to expose Launch 
> Services, but here's a C snippet; use it as you like:
> [...]

Thank you very much for your advice, and for the sample code -- I will 
play around with this snippet, and see I can get what I need.  It looks 
promising!  If it works out, it will not be so difficult to add it as an 
extension module.

Cheers,
-M


-- 
Michael J. Fromberger             | Lecturer, Dept. of Computer Science
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~sting/  | Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH, USA


From justinhsia at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  4 16:37:03 2004
From: justinhsia at yahoo.com (Chaser)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 13:37:03 -0800
Subject: ?? Modules for GPIB and Ethernet ??
Message-ID: <21240387.0411041337.7b17172b@posting.google.com>

Hi folks,

Just wondering if anyone knows where I can find modules for NI-488.2
GPIB and for a generic ethercard?

Thanks.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Nov 16 07:25:30 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 07:25:30 -0500
Subject: int literals and __class__ (WAS: Is a list an instance of a
	class?)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6407.1100587895.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <4197c013$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>	<ad052e5c.0411150401.2b215499@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6407.1100587895.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <_qmmd.10659$nj.4248@lakeread01>

Steven Bethard wrote:

> Dan Bishop <danb_83 <at> yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>>You don't have to ask *that* nicely.
>>
>>
>>>>>1 .__class__  # notice the space
>>
>><type 'int'>
> 
> 
> Why does this work?  Or, perhaps my real question is why *doesn't* it work
> without the space?  Pointers to the appropriate point in the docs would be
> fine...  I assume it's something about making parsing easier...?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Steve
> 
Yup, it's because a dot immediately following an integer would be parsed 
(strictly "lexed", I suppose) as a floating point constant,m aking the 
__class__ a syntax error.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Nov 20 18:52:40 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 00:52:40 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <864d370904112015007de3eaf4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>	
	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>	
	<mailman.6614.1100891946.5135.python-list@python.org>	
	<419E6C13.1040508@v.loewis.de>	
	<mailman.6634.1100915976.5135.python-list@python.org>	
	<419fc77d$0$198$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<864d370904112015007de3eaf4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <419FD8C8.1090208@v.loewis.de>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> I'm curious. I know that Python is not going to enter into a
> 'patent-filling' frenzy anytime soon. But isn't the 'is not' trick
> also patentable on it's own?

If the Microsoft patent is granted, then Python's approach would
certainly patentable as well.

> 1) I always found the "is not" with two tokens a novelty -- I knew no
> other language before where this spelling was acceptable. But I am no
> "linguist" (in the CS sense), either.

It really is new in this context. However, there are many "similar"
notations.
- SQL is full of multiple-keyword constructs. E.g.

   constraint_declare :: = [ CONSTRAINT constraint_name ]
   PRIMARY KEY ( col1, col2, ... ) |
   FOREIGN KEY ( col1, col2, ... ) REFERENCES f_table [ ( col1, col2, 
... ) ]
              [ ON UPDATE triggered_action ] [ ON DELETE 
triggered_action ] |
   UNIQUE ( col1, col2, ... ) |
   CHECK ( expression )
   [ INITIALLY DEFERRED | INITIALLY IMMEDIATE ]
   [ NOT DEFERRABLE | DEFERRABLE ]

    triggered_action :: =
   NO ACTION | SET NULL | SET DEFAULT | CASCADE

   So "ON DELETE SET NULL" are really two "things" only, not four things.

- in particular, for WHERE clauses, they have
   expression NOT BETWEEN expression AND expression
   expression NOT LIKE "string literal"
   expression IS NOT NULL (notice that IS NOT can only be combined with
   NULL here)
   expression NOT IN value

- likewise, COBOL has many compound keywords:
   ADD id-1 TO id-2 ON SIZE ERROR impstmt-1
   ADD id-1 TO id-2 NOT ON SIZE ERROR impstmt-2
   [notice how this features a four-word keyword]
   MERGE fname-1 ON ASCENDING KEY id-1 COLLATING SEQUENCE IS
         EBCDIC USING fname-2 GIVING fname-3
   [the only multi-work keyword here is "COLLATING SEQUENCE IS".
    "EBCDIC" is a parameter to that (with "ASCII" the other
    alternative); ON ... KEY can use either ASCENDING or
    DESCENDING]

- C has had "unsigned long" for quite some time, and now
   also has "unsigned long long".

> 2) Some people seem to think that the better way to defend Open Source
> applications against silly patents is to fill a lot of patents in
> behalf of open projects, as a defensive measure. I don't have any clue
> as to whether this would be effective in practice or not, but anyway,
> it seems interesting.

I think it would be a waste of resources. Defense is only needed when
there is an actual threat, at which point, if the patent is silly,
litigation can be started. This is something the PSF could do should
the need arise.

Regards,
Martin



From saint_infidel at hotmail.com  Thu Nov  4 15:45:03 2004
From: saint_infidel at hotmail.com (infidel)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 12:45:03 -0800
Subject: Exception during win32all installation
Message-ID: <1099601103.164951.130720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

I just uninstalled all previous versions of Python from my machine
(2.3.4 and 2.4a1) and installed 2.4b2.  Now when I try to install the
win32 extensions (builds 202 and 203), the installer displays this:

<pre>
Running the pre-installation script failed
'import site' failed; use -v for traceback
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<string>", line 3, in ?
File "C:\Python24\Lib\os.py", line 133
from os.path import (curdir, pardir, sep, pathsep, defpath, extsep,
altsep,
^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

</pre>

The installer appears to be complaining about the parentheses in the
import statement, but the interactive interpreter has no problems with
importing the os module.  Is the installer using an older version of
python internally?



From roy at panix.com  Tue Nov 23 08:36:07 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:36:07 -0500
Subject: Identifying exceptions that can be raised
References: <cVdnd.7986$tS4.4873@trndny09>
	<mailman.6579.1100837821.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<6Rknd.6671$%M4.4203@trndny08>
	<cnmcek$rju$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<545cb8c2.0411221645.442bb88a@posting.google.com>
	<cnu3i1$ne9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<41A339A8.90908@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <roy-6DC1DC.08360723112004@reader1.panix.com>

In article <41A339A8.90908 at holdenweb.com>,
 Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

> I think some people just deal with uncertainty better than others. Java 
> is indeed a slog, and being forced to write exception handlers for 
> errors I never expect to occur and was quite happy to see my program 
> fail under was one of the least attractive things about it.

Java doesn't actually force you to handle the errors.  You can always 
just declare your method to throw those exceptions you don't handle.  
That's a pain in the butt too, it's just a slightly smaller pain than 
catching them.  I agree with you that exception handling is Java is one 
of the (many) low points of the language.


From exarkun at divmod.com  Mon Nov 22 09:35:55 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:35:55 GMT
Subject: Trouble with psyco
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041122020641.042be500@rcblue.com>
Message-ID: <20041122143555.17481.1424076765.divmod.quotient.1242@ohm>

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 02:07:46 -0800, Dick Moores <rdm at rcblue.com> wrote:
>psyco is acting a bit psycho for me.
> 
> Please see my spinForWeb.py at <http://www.rcblue.com/Python/spinForWeb.py>
> 
> When psyco is in use, entering an integer somewhere between 2000 and 2500 
> causes my computer to freeze. Not really freeze but the program doesn't 
> finish, and I have to quit with a ^Q.
> 
> psyco is really impressive, but I'm disappointed that I can't demonstrate 
> (to friends) counting with it to numbers above 2 billion.
> 
> If I remark out the "psyco.bind(spin)" line, there's no problem no matter 
> what integer I enter. Can someone explain what the problem with psyco is?
> 
> Windows XP, Python 2.3.4
> 
> Thanks,

  I added a print to your inner loop:

      while k < max:
          k += 1
          if not (k % 1000000L):
              print 'at', k

  Progress is regularly reported, but it is quite, quite slow.  So the problem is not that psyco is breaking your program.  Neither is it speeding anything up though, and in fact seems to be slowing it down over some sets of data.

  When you cross sys.maxint (a bit above 2 billion, usually), internally Python stops storing integers as platform-native data types and switches to a data type which can grow almost without bound.  Since this new data type isn't native to your architecture, every operation on it is vastly slower, but Python must switch because the platform-native data type cannot take on the values you are asking.

  Python works very hard to make each loop around its evaluator.  You're asking it to get around quite a few times, doing very little _actual_ work each time.  This is one of the worst cases for performance in Python.

  With the psyco version, the call to spin() is effectively made into a single operation, as far as the interpreter loop is concerned.  That's part of why it's so much faster - instead of one loop around the interpreter per "k += 1", it's just one loop around the interpreter.  Big difference.  But you've discovered one of the costs associated with this - Control-C generally sends SIGINT to the process: Python notices this and sets a flag which will _later_ cause KeyboardInterrupt to be raised.  In this case, with psyco enabled, "later" happens when spin() returns, because calling spin() was just one operation, as far as Python is concerned.

  Without psyco, "later" happens very frequently, almost constantly even, and so Control-C generally has an instant effect.

  Hope this helps,

  Jp


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Tue Nov  2 10:03:33 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 07:03:33 -0800
Subject: [wx] Simple image editor
In-Reply-To: <cm7gvu$c0s$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
References: <clvmtr$8vl$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
	<pan.2004.10.30.19.05.37.539206@jerf.org>
	<cm7gvu$c0s$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
Message-ID: <4187a6ac$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Michele Petrazzo wrote:
> ... if I have a lot of "objects", I must attempt [to] redraw all.
One simplification that can speed things up tremendously (in the case
that you can ignore write order), is to have a "selected" object, and
an image of "everything else" on which you draw the "selected" object
as you move it around.

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From mike at hobbshouse.org  Thu Nov  4 18:03:29 2004
From: mike at hobbshouse.org (Michael Hobbs)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 23:03:29 -0000
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5890.1099529745.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmpyz8.11h86a71kjmdttN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5916.1099587353.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdntd$788$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5920.1099589545.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdrhf$d2c$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5925.1099594558.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10ol7sqdr84k619@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.5935.1099604609.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10olda19ictjb0@corp.supernews.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
> The reason for this is that at any given time in OCaml, the sequence of bits is
> only interpretable as *one* of the two types, never both.  If you have a good
> example of using a union (in C probably, since OCaml wouldn't let you do this I
> don't think) where you want to treat a given sequence of bytes as both types *at
> once*, that would be great!

This example is a little weak, but may be sufficient. The in_addr
structure used for sockets usually uses a union to provide different
views to the underlying 32-bit address. You can access the address
as 4 8-bit values, 2 16-bit values, or 1 32-bit value. Most code
these days only use the 4 8-bit representation, but the interface is
there.

Another possible example comes from the Windows API. Some of the
functions take an arbitrary length structure. If you want to make a
simple call to the function, you pass a small structure. If you 
want to make a more complex call to the function, you pass a larger
structure that has more fields tacked on to the end. Usually, the 
first field in the structure is an int that specifies how large the
structure is. It is used as sort of a crude version of OO in C.

I'm not sure if these are the kinds of examples you're looking for.
I don't know how anyone would be able to use a sequence of bytes as
two types of data at once. There is almost always some sort of 
indicator that specifies how to interpret the bytes; otherwise, it
is just garbage.

-- Mike


From mr_ravi_patil at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 17 22:09:26 2004
From: mr_ravi_patil at yahoo.com (SoftwareTester)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 19:09:26 -0800
Subject: psSerial: how to write a single byte value to the serial port?
References: <5a050156.0411170057.6c27a6a4@posting.google.com>
	<419b2f5f.282498301@news.oz.net>
	<5a050156.0411171153.6f04b454@posting.google.com>
	<cngalv$t5j$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <5a050156.0411171909.2c7d500@posting.google.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote in message news:<cngalv$t5j$05$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> > I assume the string print ser.write() will append null characters to the
> > end.
> 
> Why do you assume that? Its not said anywhere, and its wrong. A string
> consists only of the characters you can "see" - if python usues C
> convention for 0-termination or othear means is an implementation detail
> none of your concern.
> 
> > byte = chr(0x40)
> > ser.write(byte)
>  
> >>> type(byte)
> <type 'str'>
> 
> Its a string as well.

I am concerned because I do not know the effect of writing null
character to the device connected to the serial byte.

I wish to send a single byte to the serial port and nothing more.

Thanks.


From endavis at gmail.com  Mon Nov 15 13:30:18 2004
From: endavis at gmail.com (Eric Davis)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:30:18 -0500
Subject: save a dictionary in a file
In-Reply-To: <2vsa8hF2oa58tU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2vsa8hF2oa58tU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4198F5BA.4010805@gmail.com>

Luis P. Mendes wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> my program builds a dictionary that I would like to save in a file.
> 
> My question is what are the simple ways to do it?
> 
> The first solution I've thought of is to transform the dictionary in a
> list, with the key being the first element on that list, and the value
> as the second.  Then I could use pickle to do the write and read
> operations.  It seems simple and easy.
> 
> Is there a more commonly used form to do it, yet in a simple way?
> 
> Luis

Look at the pickle or ConfigParser modules.
Both of these will do what you are looking for in different ways.

Eric



From danperl at rogers.com  Wed Nov 24 01:02:05 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 01:02:05 -0500
Subject: protocols, inheritance and polymorphism
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>
	<Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<YWKod.137814$HA.44609@attbi_s01>
	<donn-F6A9D8.11153623112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<tqadnT2kAIXJEj7cRVn-hA@rogers.com>
	<donn-F39B72.13183123112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<mqedndyH_YCYUT7cRVn-uQ@rogers.com>
	<donn-D778C1.17100223112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<786dnYZkrq-ieT7cRVn-tw@rogers.com> <1101273995.954137@yasure>
Message-ID: <s4qdnUDCJoJ9vjncRVn-hA@rogers.com>


"Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> wrote in message 
news:1101273995.954137 at yasure...
> Quoth "Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com>:
> | "Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message
> | news:donn-D778C1.17100223112004 at gnus01.u.washington.edu...
> | > I'm very sympathetic to the advantages of static typing
> | > (NB, I read here that Python is strongly, though dynamically,
> | > typed.  It is not statically typed.)  Rather than embrace
> | > subtype polymorphism through inheritance, however, I see it
> | > as evidence that no one has figured out how to make static
> | > typing really work with OOP.  There has to be a better way
> | > to do it.
> |
> | You're right, I should have said statically typed instead of strongly 
> typed.
> |
> | But did you really mean "no one has figured out how to make *static* 
> typing
> | really work with OOP" or did you mean *dynamic* typing?
>
> Static.  I figure dynamic & OOP get along fine -- as Smalltalk showed,
> along with I believe Objective C and of course Python.  Static typing
> and Functional Programming seem to go hand in glove, cf. Haskell type
> classes.  Static OOP seems to invite inelegant and unsound compromises.

It's hard to argue against Smalltalk.  I haven't used it for many years so I 
don't remember it but it was THE language of choice for an OOP course I took 
oh so many years ago.  And I still see it mentioned as a model for OOP.  I 
never learned Objective C so I cannot argue with that either. 
Unfortunately, as much as I am learning to like Python, I don't think I see 
it as a picture perfect OOP language.  It may be a controversial opinion but 
I am not at all satisfied with encapsulation in Python (you cannot hide any 
of a class's implementation).

Can you elaborate on problems that static languages have with OOP?  We have 
been touching on parametric polymorphism and that is a valid point.  I also 
see multiple inheritance as being very poorly implemented in C++ and Java to 
the point where books on C++ that treat the subject discourage you from 
using it and Java has effectively designed it out of the language (you can 
implement many interfaces but you can extend only one class).  What do you 
have in mind?

Dan

> Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu 




From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sat Nov  6 09:23:45 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 09:23:45 -0500
Subject: Python OS
Message-ID: <418CDE71.4080303@cloudthunder.com>

Is it possible to prototype an operating system in Python?  If so, what 
would such a task entail? (i.e. How would one write a boot-loader in 
Python?)

- Richard B.


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov 22 09:09:30 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:09:30 +0100
Subject: split large file by string/regex
References: <v5l872-sd4.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>
	<41A1EF3E.1080409@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <cnsrup$428$05$1@news.t-online.com>

> Depends on your definition of "simple", I suppose. The problem with
> *not* using a lexer is that you'd have to examine the file in a sequence
> of overlapping chunks to make sure that a regex could pick up all
> matches. For me that would be more complex than using a lexer, given the
> excellent range of modules such as SPARK and PLY, to mention but two.

At least spark operates on whole strings if used as lexer/tokenizer - you
can of course feed it a lazy sequence of tokens by using a generator - but
that's up to you.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From jelle.feringa at ezct.net  Tue Nov  9 08:26:08 2004
From: jelle.feringa at ezct.net (Jelle Feringa // EZCT / Paris)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:26:08 +0100
Subject: newbie question | shell scripting [html-removed]
In-Reply-To: <777056A4A8F1D21180EF0008C7DF75EE03317167@sunbelt.org>
Message-ID: <20041109132613.840AE1E4002@bag.python.org>

I appreciate your comments!
Its my intention to make a nice class-based module interface to my software,
radiance. Though classes will help structure the interface, it wont resolve
that my for loop creates more than one process. Which seems quite a
fundamental problem, and is far beyond my (yet!) modest python skill.
Hence my post. 

True, string interpolation is more elegant.
I'll update this.

I agree with your architectural comment.
That's why I want to resolve my processes problem before moving the
interface to a class based module.

Cheers,

Jelle.

Btw: I haven't been able to find many resources on shell scripting. So far
'Programming Python 2nd edition' has been a great help. Any online tutorials
you could recommend?

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sells, Fred [mailto:fred at adventistcare.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 1:49 PM
> To: 'Jelle Feringa // EZCT / Paris'
> Subject: RE: newbie question | shell scripting [html-removed]
> 
> 1. if you're just learning to program, figuring out how to kill processes
> on
> windows from within Python may be more than you want to try right now.
> 
> 2. take a look at the % operator, especially when used with a dictionary,
> it
> will make the code snippet you included much more readable.
> 
> 3.  If you are new to programming, take the time to get familiar with
> Object
> Oriented programming.  It is actually easier than standard programming,
> just
> requires a different perspective.
> 
> 4.  My rule of thumb is that a python file should only be one page when
> printed; two at most.  To achieve this I do not use many comments but do
> use
> meaningful variable and method names.
> 
> I realize I'm not answering your questions, but as an architect you should
> know you have to first check out the foundation before adding a floor ;)





From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Nov 12 11:57:48 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:57:48 -0500
Subject: modifying static (local) method variables
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6306.1100277458.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6306.1100277458.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <726ld.196$nj.146@lakeread01>

t scytale wrote:
> i am using a mutable default paramater to simulate a static method variable.
> i notice that 
> - assigning to the var inside the method causes it to return to the
> default value at each call.
> - appending to the var gives the expected behaviour (the value is
> preserved to the next call
> 
> why is this?
> 

Because an assignment to an argument inside the method merely rebinds 
the local variable for the remainder of that execution. Mutating the 
referenced object ensures that the changed value is available to further 
calls.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From paul at subsignal.org  Wed Nov  3 17:39:16 2004
From: paul at subsignal.org (paul koelle)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 23:39:16 +0100
Subject: recursive method  in __init__
Message-ID: <2ut50iF2ev7vvU1@uni-berlin.de>

hi all,

I thought it would be nice to have instances that can "live" somehow in 
the "background" and do some tasks without being told so. The problem in 
the code below is: calling new_host = Host(ip, mac, collector) never 
"returns" because the the self.update() method gets called recursively. 
Im pretty sure I have to restructure the code and call the update() 
method from outside but I ask out of curiosity and to get some ideas how 
to do such things elegantly.

thanks
  Paul

class Host(object):
     def __init__(self, ip, mac, collector):
         '''ip and mac are strings, collector is a Collector() class 
instance from the loganalyze module'''
         re_ip = re.compile ('\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}')
         print "New host instance created"
         if not re_ip.match(ip):
             raise ValueError('Invalid IP address.')
         else:
             self._ip_addr = ip
         self._mac_addr = mac
         self.collector = collector
         # traffic counter
         self._minutes = []
         self._additional_ips = []
         self.update()

    def update(self):
         '''adds a dict with traffic for this host every minute'''
         print "Method update of class Host called"
         data = self.collector.get(self._ip_addr)
         if data:
             self.minutes.append(data)
         time.sleep(60)
         self.update()


From elbertlev at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 18 12:34:37 2004
From: elbertlev at hotmail.com (Elbert Lev)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 09:34:37 -0800
Subject: Named tuples
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.6511.1100727971.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gnf6b7.nnqkns1c991f3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.6520.1100738474.5135.python-list@python.org>	<10pntj5m0spvl3f@corp.supernews.com>	<mailman.6521.1100740991.5135.python-list@python.org>	<hcUmd.520265$mD.141102@attbi_s02>
	<419c20da.344317031@news.oz.net>	<k3Wmd.45854$V41.9126@attbi_s52>
	<mailman.6539.1100779323.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9418be08.0411180934.522e7ce5@posting.google.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.6539.1100779323.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 05:04:16 GMT, Bryan <belred1 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> There are a few requirements that can be imposed to avoid problems.
> First, __names__ is clearly a property, acessed via get & set (which
> allows to trap some errors). It should accept only tuples as an
> argument (not lists) to avoid potential problems with external
> references and mutability of the names. As for the validation, I'm not
> sure if it's a good idea to check for strings. maybe just check if the
> 'names' stored in the tuple are immutable (or perhaps 'hashable') is
> enough.

With on changes to the language the same can be achived by using db_row module


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov  8 17:12:21 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 23:12:21 +0100
Subject: Determining combination of bits
References: <x3Qjd.121786$hj.41260@fed1read07>
	<mailman.6124.1099945664.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8KQjd.121796$hj.4674@fed1read07> <418ff674$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<p7Sjd.5365$F6.1280593@news.siol.net>
Message-ID: <cmoqvv$68r$00$1@news.t-online.com>

> A lapse of mind?
>>>> n = 6
>>>> n & (-n)
> 2
> 
> You probably meant n&1 or perhaps n%2.

No, the exact right thing: 6 is binary

110

with the least significant bit beeing 

10

thus the decimal value of 2. 

Albeit I have to admit that I didn't know the trick.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From kbk at shore.net  Wed Nov 24 01:23:33 2004
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 01:23:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Weekly Python Patch/Bug Summary
Message-ID: <200411240623.iAO6NXE3029528@h006008a7bda6.ne.client2.attbi.com>

Patch / Bug Summary
___________________

Patches :  254 open ( +8) /  2700 closed ( +1) /  2954 total ( +9)
Bugs    :  784 open (+14) /  4629 closed (+15) /  5413 total (+29)
RFE     :  156 open ( +0) /   135 closed ( +0) /   291 total ( +0)

New / Reopened Patches
______________________

os.path.exists returns False if no permission  (2004-11-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1068277  opened by  Robert Brewer

small update for pdb docs  (2004-11-17)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1068456  opened by  Ilya Sandler

incomplete support for AF_PACKET in socketmodule.c  (2004-11-19)
       http://python.org/sf/1069624  opened by  Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro

xmlrpclib - marshalling new-style classes.  (2004-11-20)
       http://python.org/sf/1070046  opened by  Gabriel Pastor

Add BLANK_LINE to token.py  (2004-11-20)
       http://python.org/sf/1070218  opened by  logistix

bug#1021756: more informative error message  (2004-11-23)
       http://python.org/sf/1071739  opened by  Christos Georgiou

raise error for common mistake with subprocess  (2004-11-23)
       http://python.org/sf/1071755  opened by  Nick Craig-Wood

a new subprocess.call which raises an error on non-zero rc  (2004-11-23)
       http://python.org/sf/1071764  opened by  Nick Craig-Wood

Add support for db 4.3  (2004-11-23)
       http://python.org/sf/1071911  opened by  Michal &#268;iha&#345;

Patches Closed
______________

small update for pdb docs  (2004-11-18)
       http://python.org/sf/1068456  closed by  rhettinger

New / Reopened Bugs
___________________

subprocess is not EINTR-safe  (2004-11-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1068268  opened by  Peter ?strand

linecache.py::update_cache strips directory info from files  (2004-11-18)
       http://python.org/sf/1068477  opened by  Tim Leslie

confusing new method names for lists  (2004-11-18)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1068590  opened by  McErnie

TclError not a subclass of StandardError  (2004-11-18)
       http://python.org/sf/1068881  opened by  Russell Owen

segfault on printing nested sequences of None/Ellipsis  (2004-11-19)
       http://python.org/sf/1069092  opened by  Jonas K?lker

PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc segfault  (2004-11-18)
       http://python.org/sf/1069160  opened by  Tim Peters

OS X (Panther) Framework Install causes version mismatch  (2004-11-18)
       http://python.org/sf/1069198  opened by  Dusty Harr

"Python/C API Reference Manual" lost one Function  (2004-11-19)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1069287  opened by  Raise L. Sail

C:\Python24\Lib\compileall.py returns False  (2004-11-19)
       http://python.org/sf/1069409  opened by  PieterB

import on Windows: please call SetErrorMode first  (2004-11-19)
       http://python.org/sf/1069410  opened by  Dimitri Papadopoulos

Python 2.4c1 does not have universal newline support  (2004-11-19)
       http://python.org/sf/1069433  opened by  PieterB

setup.py fails - cannot find byteyears.py  (2004-11-20)
       http://python.org/sf/1070121  reopened by  bcannon

setup.py fails - cannot find byteyears.py  (2004-11-20)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1070121  opened by  crescentd

endianness detection fails on IRIX 5.3  (2004-11-20)
       http://python.org/sf/1070140  opened by  Georg Schwarz

urllib2 authentication redirection error(?)  (2004-11-21)
       http://python.org/sf/1070735  opened by  Allan B. Wilson

urllib2 authentication redirection error(?)  (2004-11-22)
       http://python.org/sf/1071147  opened by  Allan B. Wilson

os.walk example for deleting a full tree is sometime wrong  (2004-11-22)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1071087  opened by  Olivier Bornet

some latex reject the pdfinfo  macro while generating html  (2004-11-22)
       http://python.org/sf/1071094  opened by  Marc-Antoine Parent

Documented grammar for List displays incorrect (testlist)  (2004-11-22)
       http://python.org/sf/1071248  opened by  Lenard Lindstrom

email: no way to add additional parameter to Content-Type  (2004-11-22)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1071459  opened by  Tessa Lau

test_sutil fails on cygwin  (2004-11-23)
       http://python.org/sf/1071513  reopened by  tebeka

test_sutil fails on cygwin  (2004-11-23)
       http://python.org/sf/1071513  opened by  Miki Tebeka

test_tcl fails on cygwin  (2004-11-23)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1071514  opened by  Miki Tebeka

test_subprocess fails on cygwin  (2004-11-23)
       http://python.org/sf/1071516  opened by  Miki Tebeka

moneyfmt recipe in decimal documentation has error  (2004-11-23)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1071566  opened by  Anna Ravenscroft

coercing decimal to int doesn't work between -1 and 1  (2004-11-23)
       http://python.org/sf/1071588  opened by  Anna Ravenscroft

Windows msi doesn't install site-packages directory  (2004-11-23)
       http://python.org/sf/1071594  opened by  Anna Ravenscroft

configure problem on HP-UX 11.11  (2004-11-23)
       http://python.org/sf/1071597  opened by  Harri Pasanen

difflib HTML support description incorrect  (2004-11-23)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1072124  opened by  Dan Gass

bad arg type to isspace in struct module  (2004-11-23)
       http://python.org/sf/1072182  opened by  Greg McFarlane

re module segfaulting in large regular expression  (2004-11-23)
       http://python.org/sf/1072259  opened by  Erik Demaine

Bugs Closed
___________

Obsolete info in Tutorial 9.1  (2004-11-15)
       http://python.org/sf/1067018  closed by  rhettinger

Small typo  (2004-11-15)
       http://python.org/sf/1067023  closed by  rhettinger

subprocess works poorly on Windows with Python 2.3  (2004-10-29)
       http://python.org/sf/1057048  closed by  astrand

Overflow error seek()ing with float values > (2 ** 31) - 1  (2004-11-16)
       http://python.org/sf/1067728  closed by  rhettinger

Typo about PyErr_WriteUnraisable()  (2004-11-14)
       http://python.org/sf/1066036  closed by  rhettinger

confusing new method names for lists  (2004-11-18)
       http://python.org/sf/1068590  closed by  rhettinger

"Python/C API Reference Manual" lost one Function  (2004-11-19)
       http://python.org/sf/1069287  closed by  bcannon

test_socket fails  (2004-11-06)
       http://python.org/sf/1061429  closed by  bcannon

setup.py fails - cannot find byteyears.py  (2004-11-20)
       http://python.org/sf/1070121  closed by  bcannon

setup.py fails - cannot find byteyears.py  (2004-11-20)
       http://python.org/sf/1070121  closed by  bcannon

os.walk example for deleting a full tree is sometime wrong  (2004-11-22)
       http://python.org/sf/1071087  closed by  tim_one

Ctrl-C doesn't work with sleepy main thread  (2004-01-12)
       http://python.org/sf/875692  closed by  kbk

email: no way to add additional parameter to Content-Type  (2004-11-23)
       http://python.org/sf/1071459  closed by  bwarsaw

test_sutil fails on cygwin  (2004-11-23)
       http://python.org/sf/1071513  closed by  jlgijsbers

test_tcl fails on cygwin  (2004-11-23)
       http://python.org/sf/1071514  closed by  bcannon

moneyfmt recipe in decimal documentation has error  (2004-11-23)
       http://python.org/sf/1071566  closed by  rhettinger

difflib HTML support description incorrect  (2004-11-23)
       http://python.org/sf/1072124  closed by  jlgijsbers



From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Tue Nov 16 03:08:00 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 00:08:00 -0800
Subject: determining the number of output arguments
References: <mailman.6361.1100470915.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cn95k1$bfq$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <60dfb6f6.0411160008.314cf6b7@posting.google.com>

Darren Dale <dd55 at cornell.edu> wrote in message news:<cn95k1$bfq$1 at news01.cit.cornell.edu>...
> I want to extend the capabilities of an existing function without breaking
> backward compatibility. I used nargin and nargout (number of arguments in
> and out) pretty extensively in Matlab.

Well, it's already been said that it's not possible without some black
magic.  There are other ways to accomplish what you want, more or
less, if you're open to other ideas.  When I find that I want to add
to a function, I typically do one of two things:

1. Add a flag in the argument list with a default value, like this:

    def function(a,b,c,new_behavior=False):
        pass

Adds new capibilities, does not affect backwards compatibility.  It's
also more explicit; you can see that something different is going on
from the call.  Having the number of return arguments determine the
function's behavior seems just a tad sneaky and backhanded to me.

2. Instead of adding capabilities to the function, refactor and write
an new function.  That is, take the stuff the stuff that's needed for
both the old and new capabilities, and put it into its own function. 
Then write two functions, one for the new and one for the old
capability, both of which call the refactored function.

Oftentimes, it just makes more sense for two different capabilities to
be in two different functions.

[And nowhere is the need for this more apparent than in the libraries
that ship with Matlab.  I use Matlab quite a bit at work, and nothing
about it annoys me more than the way they overload library functions
to the extreme (and that's saying a lot).  It's quite useful in some
cases, but why exactly do they need to cram 50 different nonlinear
programming methods, with all sorts of individualized options and
constraints, into one function?  (And this is AFTER they refactored
the optimization toolbox.)]


-- 
CARL BANKS


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Nov  1 15:55:26 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 13:55:26 -0700
Subject: LRU cache (and other things missing from the standard library
	...)
In-Reply-To: <20041101184758.GA7167@mylene.ghaering.de>
References: <20041101184758.GA7167@mylene.ghaering.de>
Message-ID: <20041101133948.0C4A.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Gerhard Haering <gh at ghaering.de> wrote:
> I recently implemented a LRU cache. And I wondered why such a useful class is
> not already in the standard library. The only thing I found was a cookbook
> entry but the comments said it was problematic.

The comments were in regards to it not updating a cache entry on read. 
It has since been changed to update on read, as mentioned in the
comments, and an underlying bug has also been fixed.


> Btw. my implementation is currently at
> http://initd.org/svn/initd/pysqlite/trunk/misc/lru.py Does anybody see any
> problems with this code?

I have not run your code, but it only offers get and display methods. 
While getting with your provided factory is certainly sufficient for
adding items to the LRU, you do not offer a mechanism for removing items
from the cache (if an item changes), nor iterating through items in the
cache (which may be necessary).


> I've already started translating it into C (*) , which speeds it up by between
> factor 5 to 8. Maybe a candidate for the standard library once it's finished?

Maybe, maybe not.  There hasn't been much demand for the original recipe
that mirrors a dictionary interface, and I wouldn't imagine that this
new implementation would be of high demand either.


 - Josiah



From donn at drizzle.com  Sun Nov 28 13:57:52 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 18:57:52 -0000
Subject: files in non-blocking mode?
References: None <cock5m$lq5$1@news2.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Message-ID: <1101668271.956473@yasure>

Quoth Uwe Mayer <merkosh at hadiko.de>:
| Hi,
|
| I want two python programs to communicate over stdIO channels. The one
| executes the other via the popen3 function:
|
| amc = Popen3("./amc/amc.py", True, 0)
| line = stdin.readline()
| amc.tochild.write(line)
| amc.tochild.flush()
| print amc.fromchild.readlines()
|
| The problem is that although amc.tochild gets flushed the data never reaches
| the client until the .tochild fd is closed. Is there any way to put IO
| channels into non-blocking mode in python?

The readlines() function on the last line there will return only when
its file closes.  You don't want non-blocking mode, or unbuffered file
objects.  As long as both ends are careful to 1) flush the output buffer
after each line of output, and 2) read only one line at a time, with
readline(), the two will get along fine.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Tue Nov 16 13:00:38 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:00:38 GMT
Subject: Idiom for default values when unpacking a tuple
References: <l6qmd.34062$Zr3.23130@fe1.texas.rr.com>
	<mailman.6434.1100624680.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <afrmd.34589$Zr3.21484@fe1.texas.rr.com>

"Jeff Epler" <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.6434.1100624680.5135.python-list at python.org...

So is there any easy way for the pad function to figure out for itself that
the target length is 3, without my having to tell it so?

-- Paul




From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Nov 18 12:09:55 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:09:55 -0800
Subject: imaplib ... understanding the result from a fetch of RFC822s
References: <419bb3a7$0$259$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <donn-FD054C.09095518112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <419bb3a7$0$259$edfadb0f at dread12.news.tele.dk>,
 Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote:
> I am using the fetch command from the imaplib to fetch messages. I get a 
> result, but I am a bit uncertain as to how I should interpret it.
> 
> The result is described at http://pydoc.org/2.3/imaplib.html as::
> 
> (typ, [data, ...]) = <instance>.fetch(message_set, message_parts)
> 
> In RFC 2060 it says: "The data items to be fetched can be either a 
> single atom or a parenthesized list."
> 
> So I do a fetch like:
> 
>      mailconn.uid('fetch', '1:*', '(RFC822)')
> 
> As a result I receive the following results (from 2 different servers):
> 
> # mailserver 1
> messages = [
>      ('1 (UID 2 RFC822 {616}', "Received: from SNIP..."),
>      ')',
>      ('2 (UID 4 RFC822 {626}', "Received: from SNIP..."),
>      ')',
> ]
...
> Does anybody have a clue as to why imaplib returns results like that?

It has to parse the response that far, in order to read the
whole thing.  That '{616}' is as you probably surmised the
length of the following text, spanning more than a single line,
so imaplib needs that number.  The intent is not to provide
you with a fully parsed IMAP4 response, you're just getting
the data and whatever parsing was needed along the way.  In
a perversely ideal sense, it might have been better to put
the pieces back together and just give you the response as
one string.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From orionlux at voila.fr  Mon Nov  1 06:01:52 2004
From: orionlux at voila.fr (orionlux)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 12:01:52 +0100
Subject: question de bonne doc
References: <418505b9$0$3662$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<1gmkhbc.yxlo8f10l5uq5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4186179a$0$31207$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

j ai deja achet? des livres O'Reilly qui m ont donn? entiere satisfaction
et cet editeur est tres serieux
cependant quand je disais que "Python en concentr?" "?tait d?cevant c ?tait
? mon point de vue , parce que moi je cherchais un livre plein d exemples
de code, c est tout. Cependant je serai peut etre amen? ? l acheter quand j
aurai progress? en langage python car ce livre me semble une bonne
reference generale

orionlux

Alex Martelli wrote:

> orionlux <orionlux at voila.fr> wrote:
>    ...
>> les livres o'reilly sur python sont decevant
> 
> Vous n'aimez pas "Python en Concentr?"?  Je ne l'ai pas traduit
> moi-m?me, bien sur -- mon Fran?ais, qui me vient encore d'une ?cole
> superieure du temps de ma jeunesse, n'aurait surement pas suffit -- mais
> il me parait n?anmoins bien traduit, et l'original Anglais, "Python in a
> Nutshell", a eu une tres bonne r?ception.
> 
> J'aimerai bien de recevoir des critiques (je ne lis pas les groupes
> Fran?ais, seulement comp.lang.python; merci donc de m'envoyer une copie
> des message par courier ?lectronique!) pour m'aider a travailler mieux
> lors de la prochaine ?dition.
> 
> 
> Merci beaucoup,
> 
> Alex



From menard.nospam.steve at gmail.nospamisaid.com  Wed Nov 24 16:50:54 2004
From: menard.nospam.steve at gmail.nospamisaid.com (Steve Menard)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:50:54 -0500
Subject: Python 2.4 and Visual C++ Express
In-Reply-To: <KO6pd.5049226$ic1.472572@news.easynews.com>
References: <XQfod.15475$3u6.726077@wagner.videotron.net>
	<9APod.4998157$ic1.468025@news.easynews.com>
	<30ji62F31ppn0U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<KO6pd.5049226$ic1.472572@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <30kdu7F30o7vnU1@uni-berlin.de>

Jive wrote:
> "Steve Menard" <menard.nospam.steve at gmail.nospamisaid.com> wrote in message
> news:30ji62F31ppn0U1 at uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>Jive wrote:
>>
>>>Are you saying that Python 2.4 will not compile under MS VC++ 6.0?
> 
> That's
> 
>>>horrifying.  Say it isn't so!!!  I have just ported Python to an
> 
> embedded
> 
>>>system using VC++ 6.0.  It will always be compiled using 6.0, for two
>>>reasons: 1) I cannot afford the manhours for changing compilers, and 2)
> 
> Bill
> 
>>>Gates has enough money already, alright?  I would hate to think that I
> 
> am
> 
>>>now stuck at Python 2.3 for eternity.
>>>
>>
>>That is not what I am saying. The "what's new in Python" claims python
>>2.4 will
>>compile with both versions 6 and 7.1 of Microsoft's compiler.
>>
>>However, the  standard download, that most users will have, will be
>>compiled using the 7.1. And so any binary packages to be installed on a
>>2.4 dist will also have to be compiled with 7.1.
>>
>>
>>Steve
>>
> 
> 
> Do you mean if I install 2.4, I will have to find VC++ 7.1 versions of all
> the extensions
> I may be using?  If so, that's still borderline horrible, but I guess
> Microsoft is the culprit. Annow
> for something completely the same.
> 
> Will 7.1 extensions work with a Python.exe compiled under 6.0?
> 
> In any case, I think it would be a Good Thing if the Pythonistas provided a
> download of 2.4
> compiled under VC++ 6.0, in addition to the 7.1 one.
> 
> I don't suppose it will do any good to rant about Microsoft.  I believe it's
> been done.
> 
> 
> 

We can rant all we want, but let's be realistic : Version 6.0 is 
ancient! It is the version I was using at work almost 8 years ago!

Would you hold that python on Linux should compile with an 8 year old 
version of GCC? At one point, a break must happen ...

At least there seems a way to use MS's free 7.1 toolkit to compile, 
something that was'nt possible with version 6.

Lastly, about existing extensions. Extension are python version 
specific. An extension compiled for python 2.3 will NOT work with python 
2.4, no matter what. My guess is that soon after the release of Python 
2.4, maintainers of existing packages will distribute them in 2.3 and 
2.4 forms. My hope is that distuil will be intelligent enough to chose 
the right compiler when both will be present. I am one of those 
maintainers, and I do not want to have to jump through hoops to get my 
modules to compile ...


Steve


From niels_bohr at uol.com.br  Sun Nov  7 15:42:14 2004
From: niels_bohr at uol.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio?= Mendes)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 18:42:14 -0200
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <cml9h2$q70$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04> <418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<alGid.47522$HA.14125@attbi_s01>  <cml9h2$q70$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <1099860134.4481.24.camel@localhost.localdomain>

what about:
>>> fat = lambda n: reduce(lambda x,y: x*y, range(1,n))
>>> int = lambda f,a,b,dx: sum([f(x) for x in arange(a,b,dx)])*dx/(b-a)

Thoss (poorly) implements the factorial and integration function in just
one line. So what does my pet examples show us? Nothing! The same goes
for yours. So your poor affirmation about java compactness is the mere
statement that the only kind of code you can produce is autoexec.bat
sorting and the kinds. Every language has it's pros and cons, and having
a compact expressive syntax is NOT one place where Java outshines
python, ask any serious person. 

> 
> You lost.
> You Pythonistas are a bunch of losers.
> And your language is dog-slow.
> Eeeeeek.
> 
> And try to write Eclipse with your Mickey-Mouse-language!
> 
> <j>
> Pythogoras
> 
> 
> 


From ben.champion at gmail.com  Fri Nov 19 14:41:43 2004
From: ben.champion at gmail.com (Ben Champion)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 11:41:43 -0800
Subject: How can I store a result in a Matrix?
Message-ID: <2617fd5d.0411191141.29b92814@posting.google.com>

I am new to Python so please excuse me if this sounds simple! Before I
explain what i want to do let me write some code in matlab which
demonstrates what I would like to acheive, using the Fibonnachi series
as an example:


a = 1
b = 1
for i = 1:10
z = a + b
a = b
b = z
y(i) = z
end

This gives me the variable y with values 
2    3    5     8    13    21    34    55    89   144

which is essentially a matrix which i can plot against another matrix
xof the same dimensions

In python I have

a = 1
b = 1
for i in range(1, 11)
    z = a + b
    a = b
    b = z
    
which gives me all the values I need, but i do not know how to store
the values of z in a single matrix. I have looked at several online
resources and played about with the array commands but cant get it to
work. If someone could point me to a relevant webpage or suggest code
that will work I would be very grateful

Thanks

Ben


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Nov 10 06:26:04 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:26:04 +0100
Subject: html parsing?  Or just simple regex'ing?
References: <pan.2004.11.10.01.37.41.879705@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <cmstsc$bh$05$1@news.t-online.com>

> For the target database, unfortunately, the only interface we have access
> to, is http+html based.  There's same javascript involved too, but
> hopefully we won't have to interact with that.

Argl. That sounds like royal pain in somewhere...

> So, I've got Basic AUTH going with http, but now I'm faced with the
> following questions, due to the fact that I need to pull some lists out of
> HTML, and then make some changes via POST or so, again over HTTP:
> 
> 1) Would I be better off just regex'ing the html I'm getting back?  (I
> suppose this depends on the complexity of the html received, eh?)
> 
> 2) Would I be better off feeding the HTML into an HTML parser, and then
> traversing that datastructure (is that really how it works?)?

I personally would certainly go that way - the best thing IMHO would be to
make a dom-tree out of the html you then can work on with xpath. 4suite
might be good for that. While this seems a bit overengineered at first,
using xpath allows for pretty strong queries against your dom-tree so even
larger changes in the "interface" can be coped with. And writing htmlparser
based class isn't hard, either.

> 
> 3) When I retrieve stuff over http, it's clear that the web server is
> sending some kind of odd gibberish, which the python urllib2 API is
> passing on to me.  In a packet trace, it looks like:
> 
> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 01:09:47 GMT^M
> Server: Apache/1.3.29 (Unix)  (Red-Hat/Linux) mod_perl/1.23^M
> Keep-Alive: timeout=15, max=98^M
> Connection: Keep-Alive^M
> Transfer-Encoding: chunked^M
> Content-Type: text/html^M
> ^M
> ef1^M
> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">^M
> <html>^M
> <head>^M
> 
> ...and so on.  It seems to me that "ef1" should not be there.  Is that
> true?  What -is- that nonsense?  It's not the same string every time, and
> it doesn't show up in a web browser.

A webserver serving http doesn't care what you return - remember that http
can also be used to transfer binary data.

So the problem is not the apache, but whoever wrote that webapplication. Is
it cgi based?

For the ignoring part: Webbrowser tend to be very relaxed about html
documents format, otherwise a lot of the web would be "unsurfable". So I'm
not to astonished that they ignore that leading crap.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From meyer at acm.org  Wed Nov  3 05:14:28 2004
From: meyer at acm.org (Andre Meyer)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 11:14:28 +0100
Subject: Python for PDAs/Mobile phones?
Message-ID: <cmab25$7il$1@news.tudelft.nl>

Hi Pythoneers

Some time ago there was an annoucement* of Python being implemented for 
Nokia phones. Is that project still alive?

What are the options for running Python on mobile phones or PDAs?

Thanks for your help
Andre


* http://www.mobileburn.com/news.jsp?Id=732
   http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/01/21/nokia_prefers_python_to_perl/
   http://arki.uiah.fi/Documents/2004_06_11_pyth-20040521T215043


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Nov  3 08:45:07 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 11:45:07 -0200
Subject: cherrypy/cheetah vs twisted/nevow
In-Reply-To: <418818ca$0$19452$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
References: <slrncoc0tr.1tc7.charlotte@xs2.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.5766.1099319968.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418818ca$0$19452$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <864d37090411030545481ff517@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 00:39:59 +0100, bruno modulix <onurb at xiludom.gro> wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro a ?crit :
> (snip)
> > I'm yet to study nevow, but I'm getting more and more interested. I
> > have my own approach to separation; I use to think about a third
> > entity, "structure", as being independent from code & ui. The
> > structure is the common part; it's the "glue" between ui and code; and
> > it's the first part to be designed.
> 
> Err... I may have missed something obvious, but doesn't this smells like
> a good old MVC ?-)

In a way, you're right. The problem is that none of the templating
models that I know of completely separates the 'M' from the 'V'.
Simple templates (PSP, for example) tend to bundle view & parts of the
model together. There is no easy way to take them apart. The
'structure', as I call it, is not exactly a 'model' (imho the model
includes other information that belongs in the DB design, but I may be
wrong here), but it allows for a better separation.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From exarkun at divmod.com  Fri Nov 26 16:52:39 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 21:52:39 GMT
Subject: dictionary initialization
In-Reply-To: <co87h6$e8d$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20041126215239.17481.891692245.divmod.quotient.7079@ohm>

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:34:42 -0500, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>
> "BJ???rn Lindqvist" <bjourne at gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:740c3aec04112613043a0b0d2b at mail.gmail.com...
> > >>> del x
> > >>> x *= 5
> 
> > Maybe Python can't guess it, but *I* can guess, with 99% certainity,
> > that the user wants x to be 0. :)
> 
> However, it is 'obvious' to me that the 'proper' initialization is 1 and 
> the intended result should be 5.  Or that the programmer forgot something 
> and that the proper response is to raise an error, as Python does.  Wanting 
> 5 * undisclosed something to be 0 strikes me as unlikely and a distant 
> third since x = 0 is much easier to say.
> 
> Also: 'x op= y' is defined as being semantically equal to 'x = x op y' 
> except for the single rather than double evaluation of x.  

  No it isn't.  It makes no difference in this case, but in others it is relevant:


    x = y = []
    x += [1]

  vs

    x = y = []
    x = x + [1]

  Jp


From artyprog at wanadoo.fr  Sun Nov  7 19:06:58 2004
From: artyprog at wanadoo.fr (salvatore)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 01:06:58 +0100
Subject: Python OS
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418eb899$0$18184$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

http://unununium.org/

Regards


From mfuhr at fuhr.org  Tue Nov  2 23:05:51 2004
From: mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 21:05:51 -0700
Subject: getting socket.bind() exception, but no actual error
References: <1224a8f9.0411011045.6740c5d8@posting.google.com>
	<RSxhd.2736$931.635@lakeread01>
	<1224a8f9.0411021007.26ec80da@posting.google.com>
	<4187d4fc$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
	<8BWhd.30793$SW3.23350@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <4188591f$1_2@omega.dimensional.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:

> Michael Fuhr wrote:
>
> > clarence at silcom.com (Clarence Gardner) writes:
> > 
> >>And the whole point of the test in the exception handling suite (checking
> >>for "in use") is to repeat the bind until that's not the case. This is, of
> >>course, in a program in development which sometimes is not able to be 
> >>restarted right away after a problem.
> > 
> > Why not?  Because you get "Address already in use" exceptions due
> > to old connections still being in the TIME_WAIT state?  If so, are
> > you aware that server processes should usually set the SO_REUSEADDR
> > socket option before calling bind()?  Or is there some other reason
> > that bind() fails?
>
> There is some other reason: the exception argument is (errno 22, Invalid 
> argument), which is clearly not "Address in use".

The retry loop likely isn't solving this problem but is rather
causing it.  The code originally posted was:

    sockobj=socket(AF_INET,SOCK_STREAM)
    while True:
        try:
            sockobj.bind(('',4321))
        except socketerror,e:
            print e
            if str(e).find('in use') == -1:
                break
            print '.'
            time.sleep(1)
    sockobj.listen(5)

Think about what happens if bind() succeeds: the code never breaks
out of the while loop, so it attempts to call bind() again.  On
most systems that will cause the second call to bind() to fail with
EINVAL, or "Invalid argument".  You could break out of the loop
when bind() succeeds, but the loop should be unnecessary if you set
the SO_REUSEADDR socket option before calling bind(), like this:

sockobj.setsockopt(SOL_SOCKET, SO_REUSEADDR, 1)

Any decent network programming book (e.g., _UNIX Network Programming_,
Vol 1, by W. Richard Stevens) will explain that servers should set
SO_REUSEADDR before calling bind().

-- 
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/


From nicolas.riesch at genevoise.ch  Mon Nov  8 09:00:28 2004
From: nicolas.riesch at genevoise.ch (nico)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 06:00:28 -0800
Subject: unicode string literals and "u" prefix
Message-ID: <ac3d3965.0411080600.3a5bce8d@posting.google.com>

In my python scripts, I use a lot of accented characters as I work in
french.
In order to do this, I put the line
# -*- coding: UTF-8 -*-
at the beginning of the script file.
Then, when I need to store accented characters in a string, I used to
prefix the literal string with 'u', like this:
mystring = u"pr?nom"

But if I understand well, prefixing a unicode string literal with 'u'
will eventually become obsolete ( in python 3.0 ? ), as all strings
will be unicode in a more or less distant future.

So, to write "clean" script code, is it a good idea to write a script
like this ?

---- myscript ----

#! /usr/local/bin/python -U
# -*- coding: UTF-8 -*-

s = 'h?l?ne'
print len(s)
print s

-------------------

The second line says that all string literals are encoded in UTF-8, as
I work with an editor that saves all my files as UTF-8.

Normally, I should write
s = u'h?l?ne'    but the -U python option make python considers string
literals as unicode string.
( I know the -U option can disappear in a next python version, but is
not better to delete the "-U" option at the top of the scripts than
all "u" unicode prefixes, when python will consider all strings as
unicode ?... )

Finally, I write
  print s
instead of
  print s.encode('utf-8')
as I used to because I want this script to work on computer with other
encodings.
It seems that "print" encodes by default with the shell current
encoding.

Is this the best way to deal with accented characters ?
Do you think that a script written like this will still work with
python 3.0 ?
Any comment ?


From i_hate at spams.biz  Tue Nov 30 09:09:36 2004
From: i_hate at spams.biz (i_hate at spams.biz)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:09:36 +0100
Subject: private attributes in __slots__ and pickle
References: <41ac7e5f$0$13412$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <41ac7ed0$0$13412$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

i_hate at spams.biz wrote:

> Hello,
> I've just discovered the hard way that classes declaring private variables
> (beginning with two underscore) can not be pickled ; double underscored

I meant "declaring private attributes in __slots__" ; sorry.

> attributes are just not returned by __reduce__.
> 
> That's very annoying.
> 
> Objects should be serializable transparently so why such obstacles ?



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Nov  1 18:56:43 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 00:56:43 +0100
Subject: sublcassing dict without losing functionality
References: <mailman.5781.1099341134.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4aki52-fg7.ln1@valpo.de>
	<mailman.5785.1099344942.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cm6ett$ni5$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Steven Bethard wrote:

> simple.  Modifying and using UserDict would give me some 60+ lines of code

Not tested beyond what you see:

>>> import UserDict as userdict
>>> class Dict(userdict.DictMixin, dict):
...     def __setitem__(self, key, value):
...             if key in self: raise ValueError("key already exists")
...             super(Dict, self).__setitem__(key, value)
...     def __init__(self, other=None, **kw):
...             super(Dict, self).__init__()
...             self.update(other, **kw)
...
>>> d = Dict({"one": 1}, one=2)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 7, in __init__
  File "UserDict.py", line 155, in update
    self.update(kwargs)
  File "UserDict.py", line 147, in update
    self[k] = v
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in __setitem__
ValueError: key already exists
>>> d["one"] = 3
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in __setitem__
ValueError: key already exists
>>>

Peter



From carribeiro at gmail.com  Mon Nov  8 07:16:25 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 10:16:25 -0200
Subject: Email "portal" in Python?
In-Reply-To: <f7199550.0411072019.182a98df@posting.google.com>
References: <f7199550.0411072019.182a98df@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <864d37090411080416210b0546@mail.gmail.com>

On 7 Nov 2004 20:19:56 -0800, Peter Clark <pc451 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Think of something like MyYahoo: a personalized portal with news
> aggregator, weather forecast, comics, etc. Now instead of visiting a
> web site, think of all of it being sent daily as an email. It does
> have a web interface, but mostly for selecting your content: this is
> my location for weather, these are the news feeds I'm interested in,
> these are the comics I like, save my preferences, and the server takes
> care of the rest. Does such a thing exist? (Even in other non-Python
> languages?) I've tried Freshmeat, and the other usual sources, but so
> far, nothing. If there isn't any such creature, I'll write my own, but
> I wanted to first check that I'm not re-inventing the wheel.

What you are looking for is a *good* content management system,
integrated with a mailing list manager. Perhaps there is something
along these lines for Zope/Plone, but even if it exists, you'll
probably need to customize it heavily.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net  Tue Nov 16 15:55:29 2004
From: philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 14:55:29 -0600
Subject: Should I learn Python?
Message-ID: <200411161455.29415.philippecmartin@sbcglobal.net>

Richard Blackwood wrote:

>> I would bet that you are exaggerating slightly, no?

I wish I were, can you grasp the feeling of loss involved here ?

Philippe



From drew at gremlinhosting.com  Sun Nov 21 15:23:30 2004
From: drew at gremlinhosting.com (Andrew James)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:23:30 +0000
Subject: Small Database Needed
In-Reply-To: <20041121145440.85318.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041121145440.85318.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1101068610.15793.9.camel@odin>

Kevin,
There are several RDBMs packages you could look at, but for your
particular use SQLite (http://www.sqlite.org/) seems like far and away
the best solution for you.

Its feature set isn't comprehensive (but definitely usable), and
includes the the list you specified below. The major advantages this
would provide for your particular use are blinding speed, small size and
ability to be embedded within your program (makes distribution so much
easier).

Hope you find your solution,
Andrew

On Sun, 2004-11-21 at 06:54 -0800, Kevin McBrearty wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> I'm looking at implementing DB in my program for
> analysis of CAD (STL Files).  This database will
> require the basic functionality.
> 
> Query
> Sort
> Delete/Add Records
> 
> 
> I did some looking at the DB packages out there. But,
> I'm not interseted in setuping up some huge thing.  It
> would be great if it is fast, but I can live with a
> sub-optimal solution for the present.  My interest is
> in getting it up and running.  
> 
> Since, I'm new to Python so please don't hold back on
> the comments.
> 
> Regards,
>         Kevin
> 
> 
> 		
> __________________________________ 
> Do you Yahoo!? 
> Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! 
> http://my.yahoo.com 
> 
> 
-- 
Andrew James <drew at gremlinhosting.com>



From ola.natvig at infosense.no  Thu Nov 25 04:40:51 2004
From: ola.natvig at infosense.no (Ola Natvig)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 10:40:51 +0100
Subject: XUL Parser?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6765.1101324980.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <41A4B77C.3010703@advfn.com>
	<mailman.6765.1101324980.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ulg72-8e7.ln1@pluto.i.infosense.no>

Andrew James wrote:
> Alex,
> This is a very cool idea. I've been working with XUL for a little while
> now and I'd like to be able to work with it in Python.... all steam
> ahead!
> 
> Andrew
> 
> On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 16:31 +0000, Alex Stapleton wrote:
> 
>>Is there a Python XUL parser which will create GUIs in a Mozilla like 
>>fashion for me? I've had a poke around but the closest I could find was 
>>Luxor, and thats Jython bound (which isn't feasible.)
>>
>>If not is anyone interested in helping design and implment one? I'm 
>>rather keen on seeing a python XUL module which supports multiple widget 
>>systems (wxPython, Qt , GTK+ etc)

wxPython has a XUL like system (not as sleek at XUL but quite usable) 
it's called XRC and allows you to specify your own witgets to. Take a 
look in the wxPython demo. It should be possible to implement a XSLT 
engine to transform Mozilla style XUL to a customized wxPython XRC 
dialect, I don't think performance mush of a brag...

-- 
--------------------------------------
  Ola Natvig <ola.natvig at infosense.no>
  infoSense AS / development


From benji at benjiyork.com  Fri Nov 12 23:39:28 2004
From: benji at benjiyork.com (Benji York)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:39:28 -0600
Subject: permuting letters and fairy tales
In-Reply-To: <60dfb6f6.0411121732.2e0ac82c@posting.google.com>
References: <67lld8kr76.fsf@aster.homelinux.net>
	<60dfb6f6.0411121732.2e0ac82c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41959000.903@benjiyork.com>

Carl Banks wrote:
> My thought is that, the brain doesn't read the word as a whole as they
> claim, but neither does it pay too much attention to the _exact_
> ordering.

The basics of written word recognition theory are laid out in a good 
paper at "Microsoft typography".

See http://www.microsoft.com/typography/ctfonts/WordRecognition.aspx or 
http://tinyurl.com/4qrnk for the full paper.
-- 
Benji York
benji at benjiyork.com



From jfouhy at paradise.net.nz  Tue Nov  9 21:31:52 2004
From: jfouhy at paradise.net.nz (John Fouhy)
Date: 9 Nov 2004 18:31:52 -0800
Subject: Floating point -> string conversions
References: <c0f3aa87.0411072002.7c42331e@posting.google.com>
	<1gmxb89.r6ndtk17sltbgN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c0f3aa87.0411091831.59d079fd@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1gmxb89.r6ndtk17sltbgN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> John Fouhy <jfouhy at paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>    ...
> > Why do the string and default floating point representations get rounded?
> > 
> > (and is this documented anywhere?)
> Sure, right in the "Tutorial (start here)" for example.
> http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/tut/node16.html
> Alex

I knew I should have looked in the tutorial, rather than just the
"numeric types" section of the library reference :-/

Actually, that page doesn't mention that '%f' will give you a
different rounding again...

-- 
John.


From nmkolev at uni-bonn.de  Wed Nov 10 16:08:58 2004
From: nmkolev at uni-bonn.de (Nickolay Kolev)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:08:58 +0100
Subject: Combine two dictionaries into a list of 3-tuples
Message-ID: <cmu004$j6q$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>

Hi all,

Continuing the search for interesting challenges with lists, tuples and 
dictionaries I am looking for a way to do the following.

one = {
         'a' : 1,
         'b' : 2,
         'c' : 3
       }

two = {
         'a' : [4,5,6],
         'b' : [8,9,10],
         'c' : [11,12,13]
       }

The goal is

[('a', 1, [4,5,6]), ('b', 2, [8,9,10]), ('c', 3, [11,12,13])]


My attempts so far:

[(t, c, l) for t, c in one.items() if (t, l) in two.items()]

gives me a 'l is not defined'

---------------

[(t, c, l) for t, c in one.items() for (t, l) in two.items()]

gives me a lot more than I need :-)

---------------

Many thanks in advance!

Cheers,
   -- Nickolay


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Nov 15 13:48:21 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:48:21 -0600
Subject: arrays
In-Reply-To: <a2f50cd.0411151042.45487164@posting.google.com>
	(codedivine@gmail.com's message of "15 Nov 2004 10:42:11 -0800")
References: <a2f50cd.0411151042.45487164@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m37jonne2y.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "Rahul" == Rahul Garg <codedivine at gmail.com> writes:

    Rahul> Hi.  Is there someway i can get something similar to
    Rahul> multi-dimensional arrays in python.I dont want to use
    Rahul> Numarray

Yes, you can use lists of lists for example.  

  x = [ [None for i in range(10)] for j in range (12)]
  x[1][2] = 1

But it would help if you stated what your requirements are for the
multi-dim array, what kind of objects you want to store in them, what
kind of operations you need to be able to do, what your performance
requirements are, and why you don't want to use numarray or Numeric
for that matter.


JDH



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Nov  4 20:21:31 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 14:21:31 +1300
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
In-Reply-To: <cmdrhf$d2c$04$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmp6xu.zmiw6gs3250sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5890.1099529745.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmpyz8.11h86a71kjmdttN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5916.1099587353.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdntd$788$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5920.1099589545.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdrhf$d2c$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <2v02svF2gjirkU1@uni-berlin.de>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> I can remeber abusing 32bit pointers in 68k processors by
> altering the most-significant byte.

Apple did this in early versions of the Memory Manager
of classic MacOS, using the upper 8 bits of a Handle
for various flags. You weren't supposed to make any
assumptions about what the upper byte contained, but
of course some people did... and their applications
broke when 32-bit addressing came in...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From niels_bohr at uol.com.br  Sun Nov  7 15:09:33 2004
From: niels_bohr at uol.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio?= Mendes)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 18:09:33 -0200
Subject: PEP new assert idiom
In-Reply-To: <1gmvm6b.131yfhfvdcrzpN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmurvv.1meude125h1zrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6027.1099792216.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmvgit.vzj5g4hv9dsrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6049.1099815505.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmvm6b.131yfhfvdcrzpN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1099858173.4481.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>

[...]
> 
> Nope, comma can never be used as implicit line continuation in Python
> (that's different from some other languages).  The opened and yet
> unclosed parentheses are what cause several physical lines to be part of
> the same logical line -- not commas, nor other operator or punctuation.
> 
[...]
> You may be associating "commas continue lines" with "function arguments"
> because function definitions and calls DO use parentheses, and separate
> arguments with commas.  But it's really not an ideal mental model.

You're right, that's a subtle misconception that don't give syntax
errors so I never realize to be the case ;-) I was writing multiple line
dictionaries like this:

>>> dic = { \
...     key: value
...     key2: value2 }

The backslash is completely uncecessary (and ugly!). Thanks for
clarification,

-Fabio


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Wed Nov 24 12:29:44 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:29:44 -0800
Subject: Vtk
In-Reply-To: <co1kfb$g9b$1@news.newsland.it>
References: <co1kfb$g9b$1@news.newsland.it>
Message-ID: <co2ge8$1sa$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

3d wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> you have a information on the Vtk and its installation to use it with
> python on windows?

One easy way to get Python, VTK and a bunch of other goodies is to 
download the Enthought Edition of Python.

http://www.enthought.com/downloads/downloads.htm

There's an updated release coming out soon; I think next week or so.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Thu Nov 18 20:44:17 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:44:17 -0800
Subject: arrays
In-Reply-To: <419bc81d$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <a2f50cd.0411151042.45487164@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6387.1100545114.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<a2f50cd.0411170101.4c66e3ea@posting.google.com>
	<cnfa5q$7eb$1@news1.ucsd.edu> <419bc81d$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <419d62d9$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Scott David Daniels wrote:
> If you want to refer to a block of memory that you share with your C
> code (especially if the C code controls the memory, you might also want
> to check out my "Blocks and Views" code at:
> 
>     http://members.dsl-only.net/~daniels/block.html

To follow up on my own post, once you have a View v of, say, 100
floating point data entries:

 >>> multidim = [v[x : x+1] for x in range(0, 100, 10)]
 >>> revdim = [v[x : 100 : 10] for x in range(10)]
 >>> v[27]
     43.6
 >>> multidim[2][7]
     43.6
 >>> revdim[7][2]
     43.6
 >>> multidim[2][7] = 19.1
 >>> multidim[2][7]
     19.1
 >>> revdim[7][2]
     19.1
 >>> v[27]
     19.1

That is, you maintain the mapping to the original memory when taking
strides.  All subscript operations change how the memory is referenced,
not take copies of the memory.

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From br_y at yahoo.de  Mon Nov 22 10:26:42 2004
From: br_y at yahoo.de (Birgit Rahm)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:26:42 +0100
Subject: [Beginner] delete items of [] also from memory
References: <cns50t$5ip$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<41a1a1da$0$8190$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<cnsgm1$u3f$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<41a1e5b9$0$9075$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <cnt0gr$8vn$01$1@news.t-online.com>


> What makes you think the memory is not given back to the system? Does the
memory
> occupied by your script increase and increase, or do you just see the
memory
> occupied by your script remain constant when you do the del a[:]? In the
latter
> case, it may be perfectly normal: it is quite frequent that the memory
freed by
> an operation is not returned immediatly to the system, but kept for future
use
> by the program.
>
ok, I think that helped me to understand what's going on in my program and
why the memory is not freed immediately. I will take del A[0:].
Thanks to all, Birgit




From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Nov  2 20:39:46 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 20:39:46 -0500
Subject: sh: test: argument expected
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5831.1099420999.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5831.1099420999.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <WKWhd.30799$SW3.13482@fed1read01>

Iv?n Cabria wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am a new user of python. I ran 
> a python script and I got the 
> following message:
> 
> sh: test: argument expected
> 
> I found that this error came from a 
> line in the script:
> energy = atoms.GetPotentialEnergy()
> 
> I looked for a solution to this 
> problem in Internet and I found  
> (http://www.experts-exchange.com/Operating_Systems/Unix/Q_20706303.html)
> that the problem was that the variable 
> was not initialised. I also found 
> that the bash shell initialises the variables 
> automatically and the Bourne shell (sh) does not.
> (http://www.experts-exchange.com/Operating_Systems/Unix/Q_20706303.html)
> 
> I suppose that 'sh:' in the error message 
> means that the script is using the Bourne shell, 
> and hence, I understand the message error.
> 
> However, I was using the bash shell in the computer 
> I ran the script, not 
> the Bourne shell (sh). Hence, I do not 
> understand the 'sh:' in the error message.
> Could be that python scripts are using by default the 
> Bourne shell?
> 
> The first line of the python script is:
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
Question 1: if you run the script using "python scriptname.py" does the 
error go away? If so then your script is being executed by the shell and 
not by the python interpreter.

Question 2: Are there any blank lines or empty spaces before
#!/usr/bin/env python ?

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From jblaine at mitre.org  Wed Nov 10 13:06:11 2004
From: jblaine at mitre.org (Jeff Blaine)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:06:11 -0500
Subject: "Rails"-like thing for Python?
Message-ID: <cmtlas$7r2$1@newslocal.mitre.org>

Like many people, I've recently been turned onto "Ruby On Rails"
(I believe it was a Slashdot article release announcement
recently) and didn't know it existed before then.

I've been writing Python code for 6 years now, on and off, and
I have to say I am leaning more and more toward at least learning
Ruby and doing my next few projects with it.

I am curious if there is anything like the Rails framework for
Python?  Specifically, I mean a generalized framework for
rapidly performing web application building.  One that does it
consistently, well, etc.  Zope is far from what I mean.


From f.geiger at vol.at  Fri Nov  5 03:51:31 2004
From: f.geiger at vol.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:51:31 +0100
Subject: Umlauts, encodings, sitecustomize.py
Message-ID: <cmfeqg$l73$1@newshispeed.ch>

I'm on WinXP, Python 2.3.

I don't have problems with umlauts (?, ?, ? and their uppercase instances)
in my wxPython-GUIs, when displayed as static texts. But when filling
controls with text containing umlauts, or in the Python console, or when
writing to files umlauts are escaped:

Python 2.3.4 (#53, May 25 2004, 21:17:02) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> "?"
'\x84'
>>>

I have defined a sitecustomize.py with these lines in it

import sys
sys.setdefaultencoding("iso-8859-1")

What else do I have to adjust?

Kind regards
Franz GEIGER






From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Thu Nov 11 16:31:21 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:31:21 -0300
Subject: I don't quite get this "string".find()
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7BBD@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Grant Edwards]

#- > I don't know why the function was set up this way.  
#- However, an empty  
#- > string can be found in an infinite number of places within 
#- any other  
#- > string.
#- 
#- How so?  There aren't an infinite number of places _in_ a
#- finite-length string.

Beware!

You can not deal with infinities (in strings, for example, or surviving
inside a black hole) unless you are Tim Peters.

.	Facundo
-------------- next part --------------
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From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Nov 16 03:47:46 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:47:46 +0100
Subject: determining the number of output arguments
References: <mailman.6361.1100470915.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cn95k1$bfq$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <cncepe$as0$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Darren Dale wrote:

> I want to extend the capabilities of an existing function without breaking
> backward compatibility. I used nargin and nargout (number of arguments in
> and out) pretty extensively in Matlab.

Here is another alternative to achieve backward compatibility:

class Result(object):
    def __init__(self, a, b, c, d):
        self.a = a
        self.b = b
        self.c = c
        self.d = d
    def __iter__(self):
        yield self.a
        yield self.b
        yield self.c
                    
def old():
    return 1, 2, 3
    
def new():
    return Result(1, 2, 3, 4)

# the old function    
a, b, c = old()
print a, b, c

# the new function, called by old code
a, b, c = new()
print a, b, c

# the new function, called by new code
r = new()
print r.a, r.b, r.c, r.d

If old code doesn't always immediately unpack, you can implement
__getitem__(), too, or subclass tuple:

class Result(tuple):
    def __new__(cls, *items):
        items = list(items)
        if len(items) == 3:
            d = None
        elif len(items) == 4:
            d = items[-1]
            items = items[:-1]
        else:
            raise ValueError
        result = tuple.__new__(cls, items)
        result.d = d
        return result

    a = property(lambda self: self[0])
    b = property(lambda self: self[1])
    c = property(lambda self: self[2])

In effect you are switching to an object-oriented interface while staying
compatible with old code. This makes future updates a breeze, e. g. if the
calculation of d is costly you could defer it until really needed:

    class Result(object):
        ...
        d = property(lambda self: max(self.a, self.b, self.c) + 42)

Peter



From huw.davies at kerberos.davies.net.au  Thu Nov  4 06:23:30 2004
From: huw.davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (huw.davies at kerberos.davies.net.au)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 11:23:30 GMT
Subject: Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows
References: <864d3709040913131077f1732d@mail.gmail.com>
	<HLEGKHKIKMEHENBAEIEPAEEFCIAA.ben@benlast.com>
	<mailman.3307.1095171351.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ci9c6r$nju$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>
	<mailman.3363.1095253204.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<m3ekl31xck.fsf@g2ctech.com>
Message-ID: <cmd3fi$d1b@library1.airnews.net>

Jorge Godoy <godoy at ieee.org> wrote:

> I guess I heard something like that from a client of mine.  He told me
> about Sun X Terminals with memory cards.  You plug your card and there
> you are.  You go out for lunch, take your card with you, and when you
> come back you can choose any other workstation available: just plug your
> card and resume your work. 

> > Of course, for it to work I would need a new machine :-) 

> There's already some support for it in KDE.  It always opens the
> programs I was running before exiting and for the ones with support, it
> even opens the locations (e.g. directories on konsoles I have, tabs on
> Firefox/Mozilla, etc.). 

You can do this today with any Linux box and VNC. There's a good article 
on how to set this up in The Linux Journal. It used to be available on-line
but it looks like it's been limited to subscribers only now.

I set this up and used it for a while but I'm now using a laptop (Mac
Powerbook) for my Python stuff. Just close the lid when you've finished
and open it up again to continue....

.sig lost after the last hard drive failure :-(


From theller at python.net  Fri Nov 12 06:03:23 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:03:23 +0100
Subject: ZIP files
References: <808f000f.0411100805.7bff7e5d@posting.google.com>
	<qjp4p0dp83ej0e5js9n6inippgpqefb59e@4ax.com>
	<x73bzhpfpx.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<6f402501.0411120120.3f5147d6@posting.google.com>
	<1gn4y9w.3frb611oy9y8pN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <u0rvtjlw.fsf@python.net>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:

> Michael Foord <fuzzyman at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hmmm... does this mean that 
>> 
>> open(filename, 'w').write(filedata)
>> 
>> is unsafe ? It's so much more convenient when the object is only going
>> to be used for the single action.
>
> It's not exactly unsafe -- but you do risk, depending on what
> implementation of Python you're dealing with, that the file object will
> just stay open until some unknown time in the future (no later than the
> end of your program's run;-).  This may potentially lead to problems if
> your program is long-running or open lots of files, etc.
>
> def write_data(filename, data, flags='w'):
>     fileobject = open(filename, flags)
>     try: fileobject.write(data)
>     finally: fileobject.close()
>
> needs to be coded once, and then makes the operation just as convenient
> as doing it inline...

I'd suggest to expand this a bit, and make it working correctly on
windows too, where binary files must be opened with the 'b' flag:

def _write_data(filename, data, flags):
    fileobject = open(filename, flags)
    try: fileobject.write(data)
    finally: fileobject.close()

def write_data(filename, data, flags="wb"):
    _write_data(filename, data, flags)

def write_text(filename, text, flags="w"):
    _write_data(filename, data, flags)

plus the corresponding read_data() and read_text() functions.
Hm, add an encoding for unicode, maybe...
Cookbook recipe, or standard lib?

Thomas


From johng2001 at rediffmail.com  Mon Nov  1 22:18:58 2004
From: johng2001 at rediffmail.com (John)
Date: 1 Nov 2004 19:18:58 -0800
Subject: ruby on rails ... python on ?
References: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>
	<hfadnfYVCfD51RvcRVn-gw@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <ba129ce7.0411011918.115120ba@posting.google.com>

> yeah, zope.
> 
> It is so good it does not even look like python on the
> surface ... one of the biggest mistakes in developing
> web-frameworks is over-emphasizing the underlying
> programming language.
> 
> A good web-framework should not look like
> Ruby or Python, that is not what these languages were
> designed for.

Why do you say that? I could agree if Zope could be programmed in many
languages. Then not tending to any language would be a benefit. On the
contrary, I see things like ZODB making things that are not Pythonic,
look Pythonic and that is considered a good feature.

A Python only framework not feeling like Python was a deterrent for me
to learn Zope well.


From me at privacy.net  Wed Nov 24 06:48:56 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Dan Sommers)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 06:48:56 -0500
Subject: Is there a consensus on how to check a polymorphic instance?
References: <1101189570.958016.283130@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<-sSdnZs3heYawz7cRVn-iA@rogers.com>
	<1101268711.261729.54980@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2fz2zh3h3.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>

On 23 Nov 2004 19:58:31 -0800,
"Mike Meng" <meng.yan at gmail.com> wrote:

First off, I have only been following this thread on and off, so if I'm
repeating things, I apologize.

> It seems to me the virtue of dynamic langauge is, if it looks like a
> cat, it's a cat ...

Google for "duck typing."

> ... But the problem is still there: how do you know what it looks like
> before you treat it as a cat? isinstance(), , as Steve state, is too
> rigid.

You don't.

Python also takes a "we're all adults here" philosophy.  If your API
specifies "cat," and I pass your function an "InterfaceAdapter," it's
*my* problem.

If you're truly paranoid, make sure that your arguments at least have
the methods you're going to use:

    # write 'foo' to the file-like object x; don't bother if x is not
    # sufficiently file-like

    def f( x ):
        try: x.write
        except AttributeError:
            pass
        else:
            x.write( 'foo' )

    # this works, too, but doesn't scale well (i.e., if 'foo' is some
    # other non-trivial (maybe non-trusted) operation that can raise
    # AttributeError):

    def f( x ):
        try: x.write( 'foo' )
        except AttributeError:
            pass

Regards,
Dan

-- 
Dan Sommers
<http://www.tombstonezero.net/dan/>
Never play leapfrog with a unicorn.


From levub137 at wi.rr.com  Sun Nov 28 07:48:38 2004
From: levub137 at wi.rr.com (Raymond L. Buvel)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 12:48:38 GMT
Subject: ANN: rpncalc-1.0 RPN Calculator For Python
Message-ID: <GOjqd.102095$T02.9083@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>

Module that adds an interactive Reverse Polish Notation (RPN) 
interpreter to Python.  This interpreter allows the use of Python as an 
RPN calculator.  You can easily switch between the RPN interpreter and 
the standard Python interpreter.

Home page:  http://calcrpnpy.sourceforge.net/


From sean_mcilroy at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 22 19:15:15 2004
From: sean_mcilroy at yahoo.com (Sean McIlroy)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 16:15:15 -0800
Subject: drag and drop graphics in tkinter?
Message-ID: <e5063e96.0411221615.2741def4@posting.google.com>

The subject line essentially says it all. Is there a way to do it? If
so, where do I look to find out how? Any help will be much
appreciated.

Thx,
STM


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Nov 19 07:55:34 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:55:34 +0100
Subject: avoiding nested try/excepts
References: <FA7nd.49980$V41.32722@attbi_s52>
Message-ID: <cnkqds$39d$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Steven Bethard wrote:

> (1) Should I really worry about localizing try-except blocks? and, if so

Not when the error-handling doesn't take advantage of the greater locality.

> (2) Is there a cleaner way to do this kind of thing?

I've always thought that catching an exception was the clean way that
replaces dealing with functions returning error codes.

> Note that I can't edit the g or k functions, so I can't move the
> try-except blocks inside.

If you cannot modify, you can still wrap them:

 >>> def catch(*exceptions):
...     def make_catcher(f):
...             def catcher(*args):
...                     try:
...                             return f(*args)
...                     except exceptions:
...                             print "caught it"
...             return catcher
...     return make_catcher
...
>>> @catch(ZeroDivisionError)
... def f(a, b): return a / b
...
>>> f(1, 2)
0
>>> f(1, 0)
caught it
>>>

You may guess at what line in the above it dawned on me that you'd be better
off with individual wrappers than a generalized decorator...

Peter




From elie at flashmail.com  Wed Nov  3 12:30:41 2004
From: elie at flashmail.com (Eli Daniel)
Date: 3 Nov 2004 09:30:41 -0800
Subject: Extending Python questions
Message-ID: <aef9ef3d.0411030930.6091ddc7@posting.google.com>

Hi,
I am relative new to Python. Please tell me if the following is
possible.
I have a command line shell written in C. This shell executes some
commands which I would like to import to the python shell.
Here is an example command from my shell:

openconnection www.yahoo.com 12 2000

So I've created a dll (myshell_d.dll) according to the manual
("Extending Python with C or C++") and it works. The problem is the
syntax I have to use now is

myshell.openconnection('www.yahoo.com',12,2000)

It's not only the problem of comfort - it's a problem of changing
*some* scripts. And there's more than that - my shell functions
already know how to handle it's arguments (which's number may vary),
it doesn't need python to do that. All it needs is a pointer to a
string representing the arguments (in our case "www.yahoo.com 12
2000"). I've tried using PyArg_UnpackTuple but without success.

So I have two questions:
1. Is it possible to move the calls to a upper level (i.e. call
"openconnection" and  not "myshell.openconnection") ?
2. Is is possible to remove the brackets and commas? (i.e.
"www.yahoo.com 12 2000" instead of ('www.yahoo.com',12,2000)?

My final goal is to use the original commands if possible.
thanks in advance,
Eli


From ncoghlan at email.com  Fri Nov 26 11:16:05 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 02:16:05 +1000
Subject: Few things
In-Reply-To: <5c882bb5.0411251641.6177ee9d@posting.google.com>
References: <5c882bb5.0411251641.6177ee9d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41a756c6$0$25782$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

bearophile wrote:
> I think a better syntax for such multiline strings can be something
> like: remove from all the beginnings of the lines successive to the
> first one a number of spaces equal to the position of ''' in the
> soucecode.

Indeed, a similar rule is used by docstring parsing tools (e.g. the builtin 
help() function). The raw text is kept around, but the display tools clean it up 
according to whatever algorithm best suits their needs.

 >>> def foo():
...     '''This is just a
...        silly text'''
...
 >>> print foo.__doc__
This is just a
        silly text
 >>> help(foo)
Help on function foo in module __main__:

foo()
     This is just a
     silly text

Raw docstrings are rarely what you want to be looking at. The best place for 
info on recommended docstring formats is:
   http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0257.html

If you absolutely, positively need the raw docstrings to be nicely formatted, 
then line continuations can help you out:

 >>> def bar():
...   "This is actually "\
...   "all one line\n"\
...   "but this is a second line"
...
 >>> print bar.__doc__
This is actually all one line
but this is a second line

I'd advise against actually doing this, though - it's non-standard, handling the 
whitespace manually is a serious pain, and most docstring parsers clean up the 
indentation of the conventional form automatically.

Cheers,
Nick.


From shashishekar.jagadish at hp.com  Thu Nov 18 01:55:45 2004
From: shashishekar.jagadish at hp.com (shashi)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 22:55:45 -0800
Subject: Need help with Serial port communication
Message-ID: <f52203d6.0411172255.2b0d917b@posting.google.com>

I am trying to implement the following
-> Capability to interact with server during boot via serial port
-> Cause server to crash (TOC) on command.

The setup is we are managing many servers, and remotely rebooting and
configuring the servers, when rebooting we would like to control the
booting process (intel machine).

For non Intel machine (HP-UX to be specific) we can do that using GSP
(Telnet).

Need help or ideas how it could be done on intel machines (Linux &
Windows) using serial port.

Thank you.
shashi


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Wed Nov 24 15:37:18 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 21:37:18 +0100
Subject: asynchat and threading
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6755.1101310280.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <Ij1pd.19554$ld2.4796764@twister.nyc.rr.com>
	<mailman.6755.1101310280.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <co2rl2$r8$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Anthony Baxter wrote:

>>I've embarked on a small learning project, trying to get a better grasp of
>>the asyncore and asynchat modules. The project involves building a simple
>>instant messenger application for use on our LAN - nothing heavy duty, as
>>99% of my reason for doing this is just to learn.
> 
> I can only paraphrase what I said in a recent python-dev thread -
> absolutely *no-one* should be starting new projects using asyncore and
> asynchat. Use twisted, instead - it's cleaner, saner, has an active
> development community, and is in all ways a better solution than the
> asyncore approach.
> 
> asyncore based code causes bleeding from the eyes and brain leakage
> through the ears.

Well, when writing simple (when I write "simple" I mean "really simple") 
server or client for some simple ("really simple") protocol, Twisted may 
be big overhead. I remember somebody said that if you need multiprotocol 
  application server then go with Twisted, but if you need client or 
server for simple conversational protocol (like HTTP or NNTP), 
asyncore/asynchat should be sufficient.

That doesn't mean I downplay Twisted. I really like it.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/ | http://www.zgodowie.org/


From sw at wordtech-software.com  Wed Nov 10 05:17:36 2004
From: sw at wordtech-software.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 05:17:36 -0500
Subject: ANN: PyQt-Mac installer available
Message-ID: <5Vlkd.1069$yk5.385@fe37.usenetserver.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

PyQt-Mac is a binary installer of the various components of Qt and PyQt
for Mac OS X. Included are the following:
	? 	
* A complete build of Qt/Mac with QScintilla support.
	? 	
* A compiled binary of Sip, the application that converts Qt's C++ base
into Python bindings.
	? 	
* PyQt.
	? 	
* Eric 3, an integrated development environment (IDE) for Python written
with the PyQt toolkit.

These packages include both compiled binaries and complete source code.

For more information, http://www.wordtech-software.com/pyqt-mac.html.

- --
Kevin Walzer, PhD
WordTech Software--Open Source Applications and Packages for OS X
http://www.wordtech-software.com
http://www.smallbizmac.com
http://www.kevin-walzer.com
mailto:sw at wordtech-software.com
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From barry at python.org  Mon Nov 29 02:16:15 2004
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 02:16:15 -0500
Subject: Standalone email package 3.0 final
Message-ID: <1101712575.19174.59.camel@presto.wooz.org>

Python 2.4 final will probably be released in a few hours so this seems
like a good time to release the standalone email package, version 3.0
final.  Unless there's some last second snafu, this will be identical to
the version released with Python 2.4.

email 3.0 is compatible with Python 2.3 and 2.4.  If you need to support
earlier versions of Python, stick with email 2.5.5.   For documentation
(until Fred flips the "current" docs switch) and download links, please
see the email-sig home page:

http://www.python.org/sigs/email-sig

Changes in email 3.0 include:

      * New FeedParser provides an incremental parsing API for
        applications that may need to read email messages from blocking
        sources (e.g. sockets).  FeedParser is also more standards
        compliant than the old parser and is "non-strict", so that it
        should never raise parse errors when parsing broken messages.
      * The old Parser API is (mostly) supported for backward
        compatibility.
      * Previously deprecated API features have been removed, while a
        few more deprecations have been added.
      * Support for Pythons earlier than 2.3 have been removed.
      * Lots and lots of fixes.

Feel free to join the email-sig mailing list for further discussion.

-Barry

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From bearsprite at gmail.com  Thu Nov 25 22:11:55 2004
From: bearsprite at gmail.com (zhao)
Date: 25 Nov 2004 19:11:55 -0800
Subject: Use Python library from C++
In-Reply-To: <89cc6e1f.0411241939.61a19596@posting.google.com>
References: <89cc6e1f.0411241939.61a19596@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1101438715.616658.236260@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

swig is a interface of C/C++ to python, but not in reverse.

In term of python document, there are extend and embed, and your need
is embed.

below is a short tutorial, maybe helpful:
http://tutorials.impereonsoft.com/python/extemb.html

if you work in windows, and you have install pywin32 package, it expose
a com interface of python  interpreter,
so you also can use python's script or module in your application by
this interface.
if you use BCB,  you can use a VCL component name "Python for Delphi".



From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Tue Nov 30 14:38:46 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 19:38:46 GMT
Subject: decorators ?
References: <mailman.6942.1101835501.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a%3rd.56663$KQ2.32093@fe2.texas.rr.com>

"km" <km at mrna.tn.nic.in> wrote in message
news:mailman.6942.1101835501.5135.python-list at python.org...
> Hi all,
>  was going thru the new features introduced into python2.4 version.
> i was stuck with 'decorators' -  can someone explain me the need of such a
thing called decorators ?
> tia
> KM

Here are some example on the Python Wiki:
http://www.python.org/moin/PythonDecoratorLibrary

I think memoize is my favorite so far.

I'm not sure if the example behavior is all that clear.  For a given set of
arguments, the Memoize class keeps a dictionary of input arg values and
return values.  In subsequent calls, sets of args are looked up in the
dictionary of previous calls - if the arg list is found, then the function
is bypassed, and the cached return value is returned immediately.  This can
greatly speed up calls to functions that are very time-consuming, or
recursive.  This is why the Wiki page lists factorial() and fibonacci()
examples.  Of course, Memoize assumes that the return value is purely a
function of the input args, and not subject to any external state.

Of course, one could readily implement this behavior within the target
functions.  The beauty of the decorator is that this optimization is done
*completely* outside the function itself, so the function remains fairly
pure at the application level, and does not get cluttered with variables
like "resultsCache" and so on.  Also, in the interests of maximizing reuse
and avoiding the bug-proneness of cut-and-paste, isolating Memoize into a
reusable decorator helps avoid introducing bugs (vs. hard-coding this
optimization into successive functions - did you remember to initialize the
dictionary?), and leverages any optimizations or bug-fixes.

(I focused on Memoize, but these comments apply to any of the decorators on
this wiki page.)

-- Paul




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Nov 19 18:27:04 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:27:04 -0800
Subject: Python switch for syntax checking
In-Reply-To: <419e6c1b.494654145@news.oz.net>
References: <obrnd.30846$jE2.25588@bignews4.bellsouth.net>
	<419e6581$1@nntp0.pdx.net> <419e6c1b.494654145@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <10pt03bdpp7gp89@corp.supernews.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

>On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:08:00 -0800, Scott David Daniels <Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>First, "python MyApp.py" does a syntax check anyway.  If MyApp is
>>not a main program, all you get is the syntax check.  As for main
>>    
>>
>??? What does "not a main program mean"? I'm not sure what you mean, e.g.,
>  
>

I believe that Scott is referring to the difference between a file run 
from the commandline, in which __name__ is set to "__main__", and a file 
that's imported as a module, in which __name__ is set to the name of the 
module, which is normally the filename minus the .py[c|o|d] extension.

Of course, this would also imply that Scott is presuming that one is 
following the good programming practice of not putting any significant 
code (other than function, class, and global variable definitions) at 
module level, except where protected by an 'if __name__ == "__main__":' 
statement.  That *is* good practice, and most people do it, but it's not 
required so perhaps not a safe presumption...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Nov 23 08:26:21 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:26:21 -0500
Subject: unicode question
In-Reply-To: <41a28c3d.765024687@news.oz.net>
References: <qkLnd.22919$jf.19362@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<419fc9b9$0$198$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<419ff7cd_3@newspeer2.tds.net> <41A061E1.8050203@v.loewis.de>
	<KH_nd.23139$jf.19287@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<41a0ab62$0$151$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<Y3hod.23808$jf.11140@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<41a1d80d.718896828@news.oz.net>
	<41a27514$0$179$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<41a28c3d.765024687@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <41A33A7D.7090506@holdenweb.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:24:09 +0100, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?= <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Bengt Richter wrote:
>>
>>>So, bottom line, as Wolfgang effectively asked by his example, why does print try to coerce
>>>the __str__ return value to ascii on the way to the ouput encoder, when there is encoding info
>>>in the unicode object that it is happy to defer reencoding of for sys.stdout.encoding?
>>
>>[See my other posting:]
>>Because print invokes str() on its argument, unless the argument is
>>already a byte string (in which case it prints it directly), or a
> 
>                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^-- effectively an assumption that
> bytestring.decode('some_unknown_encoding').encode(sys.stdout.encoding)
> has already been done, it seems (I'm not arguing against).
> 
> 
>>Unicode string (in which case it encodes it with the stream encoding).
>>It is str(y) that fails, not the printing.
>>
> 
> Yes, I think my turgid post did demonstrate that, among other things ;-)
> 
> So how about changing print so that it doesn't blindly use str(y), but instead
> first tries to get y.__str__() in case the latter returns unicode?
> Then print y can succeed the way print y.__str__() does now.
> 
> The same goes for str.__mod__ -- it apparently knows how to deal with '%s'% unicode(y)
> so why shouldn't '%s'%y benefit when y.__str__ returns unicode?
> 
> I.e., str doesn't know that printing and '%s' can use unicode to good effect
> if it available, so for print and str.__mod__ blindly to use str() intermediately
> throws away an opportunity to do better ISTM.
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

Am I the only person who found it scary that Bengt could apparently 
casually drop on a polynomial the would decode to " L?wis"?

feel-dumb-just-being-in-the-same-newsgroup-ly y'rs  - steve

-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From rdm at rcblue.com  Mon Nov 22 05:07:46 2004
From: rdm at rcblue.com (Dick Moores)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 02:07:46 -0800
Subject: Trouble with psyco
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041122020641.042be500@rcblue.com>

psyco is acting a bit psycho for me.

Please see my spinForWeb.py at <http://www.rcblue.com/Python/spinForWeb.py>

When psyco is in use, entering an integer somewhere between 2000 and 2500 
causes my computer to freeze. Not really freeze but the program doesn't 
finish, and I have to quit with a ^Q.

psyco is really impressive, but I'm disappointed that I can't demonstrate 
(to friends) counting with it to numbers above 2 billion.

If I remark out the "psyco.bind(spin)" line, there's no problem no matter 
what integer I enter. Can someone explain what the problem with psyco is?

Windows XP, Python 2.3.4

Thanks,

Dick Moores
rdm at rcblue.com





From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Fri Nov  5 11:45:24 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 16:45:24 GMT
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
Message-ID: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>

Is there any generic way to use C++ libraries from within Python.

I seem to recall that there are tools to generate wrappers for C-libraries
semi-automatically.

But those were still way too cumbersome, IMHO.

What I would like to have is some module (or whatever), with which I can
say "load this C++ library", and then, "create that C++ object" or "call
method x of C++ object y".

Without doing anything else (such as recompiling the library or generating
wrappers).

I agree that templates could pose a major problem, so I would be happy if
it worked with pre-instantiated templates.

Is there anything?
Gab.

-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| There are works which wait,                                             |
| and which one does not understand for a long time; [...]                |
| for the question often arrives a terribly long time after the answer.   |
|                                                         (Oscar Wilde)   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From duncan.booth at suttoncourtenay.org.uk  Fri Nov 19 10:57:58 2004
From: duncan.booth at suttoncourtenay.org.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:57:58 -0000
Subject: Class Encapsulation Errors in Python 2.3.3
In-Reply-To: <864d370904111907431909378e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Xns95A66CF5C9E26duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <419E1806.3419.2EED40D8@localhost>

> On 19 Nov 2004 10:44:56 GMT, Duncan Booth <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid>
> wrote: > Jeff Shannon wrote: > > > The problem here is that default values
> in functions/methods are > > evaluated at *compile* time. > > Actually,
> no. The default values in functions/methods are evaluated when > the def
> statement is *executed* not when anything is compiled. If you > execute
> the def multiple times the default values are recalculated each > time.
> 
> Be careful :-) default values are calculated when the def statement is
> executed.... which is not the same as to say that they are calculated
> every time the function is called.
> 
<rest of explanation snipped>

I actually thought I had stated the case fairly clearly, but I 
suppose understanding what you think you have said isn't the same as 
communicating it to the audience. :)


-- 
Duncan Booth
duncan.booth at suttoncourtenay.org.uk




From steve at ferg.org  Tue Nov 16 20:29:09 2004
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 17:29:09 -0800
Subject: seeking a new host for the "Python Grimoire"
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0411161729.51e2ea80@posting.google.com>

The "Python Grimoire" was developed and released by Andrew M. Kuchling
in May, 1999. However, it never reached a stage where Andrew felt that
it was ready for publication, and eventually he withdrew it. I had
found the Grimoire helpful when I was learning Python, however, and I
persuaded Andrew to allow me to take over maintenance of the Grimoire
in August, 2002.  Since then it has been available at:

    http://www.ferg.org/grimoire/grimoire.html

I am no longer able, however, to devote the time necessary to maintain
the Grimoire and bring it up to date, so I am planning to take it down
from my Web site.

If you would like to take over the hosting and maintenance of the
Grimoire, please contact me, Steve Ferg, at steve at ferg.org.


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Nov  3 15:24:37 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:24:37 -0500
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5872.1099512105.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cthoeigtdun.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>	<slrncohmqk.n07.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<TfOdna4IePwZexXcRVn-pA@powergate.ca>	<TbadndhdMqHzaRXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>	<TbadndtdMqGHaBXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>	<6_qdnQZOZ_YYZRXcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>	<slrncoi7qs.dnr.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>	<E_udnZeXtbXWuxTcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5872.1099512105.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <WvCdnb9iSu3-oRTcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>

Thomas Heller wrote:
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
>>I have a test case here which is failing, however, because
>>the exception is *not* being delivered asynchronously for
>>some reason, but appears in the thread only when the thread
>>is already terminating itself.  
> 
> Can it be that the exception is delivered asynchronously, but still has
> to be checked by some code somewhere (my guess would be ceval.c)?
> It seems sys.setcheckinterval() plays a role here.

Exactly!  That is definitely it.  I was sitting in a small
loop doing a time.sleep() every so often, and during the
entire test that thread probably executed only about forty
or fifty bytecodes.

Your technique with the "busy loop" works, as does setting
sys.setcheckinterval() to a much smaller value than the
default 100.

Thanks Thomas!

-Peter


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  1 06:01:07 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 13:01:07 +0200
Subject: question de bonne doc
References: <418505b9$0$3662$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<1gmkhbc.yxlo8f10l5uq5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4186179a$0$31207$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <1gmkp2e.o08a66kodcjxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

orionlux <orionlux at voila.fr> wrote:

> j ai deja achet? des livres O'Reilly qui m ont donn? entiere satisfaction
> et cet editeur est tres serieux
> cependant quand je disais que "Python en concentr?" "?tait d?cevant c ?tait
> ? mon point de vue , parce que moi je cherchais un livre plein d exemples
> de code, c est tout. Cependant je serai peut etre amen? ? l acheter quand j
> aurai progress? en langage python car ce livre me semble une bonne
> reference generale

Ah, je vois, merci.  Oui, la s?rie O'Reilly "en Concentr?", m?me que la
s?rie "in a Nutshell" en Anglais, c'est plus pour reference, avec peux
d'examples de code.  Le "Cookbook" c'est l'envers, mais je ne croix pas
qu'il ait ?t? traduit, malheuresement.

Essayez alors http://fr.diveintopython.org/index.html, "Plongez au coeur
de Python", peut-?tre vous le trouverez satisfaisant.


Alex


From square690410 at yahoo.com.tw  Tue Nov  2 06:33:40 2004
From: square690410 at yahoo.com.tw (Leon)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 19:33:40 +0800
Subject: how to use httplib module http authentication??
Message-ID: <cm7ras$6a$1@netnews.hinet.net>

I use sniffer look,it's status is 200,but run getresponse() can occur error 
ResponseNotReady
I try wait it by 5 seconds,but still occur error ResponseNotReady

source code....

import httplib,threading
def waitSeconds():
    sResponse = httpClient.getresponse()
    print sResponse.reason
authHeader = {'Authorization':'Basic TGVvbjoxMjM='}

httpClient = httplib.HTTPConnection('172.16.66.116')

httpClient.request('GET','/')
sResponse = httpClient.getresponse()
httpClient.request('GET','/','',authHeader)
runWait = threading.Timer(5,waitSeconds)
runWait.start()





From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Nov  2 20:44:34 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 20:44:34 -0500
Subject: Send HTML e-mail in Python?
In-Reply-To: <c90c3203.0411021254.74b10c06@posting.google.com>
References: <c90c3203.0411021254.74b10c06@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <rPWhd.30801$SW3.29903@fed1read01>

Max wrote:

> I am looking for some simple example code on generating SMTP e-mail
> messages in Python. I have a script that sends system reports to me at
> a central e-mail address, and it works fine using smtplib with plain
> text messages. I would like to enhance this script to send HTML
> formatted messages instead.
> 
> Simply sending a text message with HTML tags does not work. The e-mail
> client displays the message as plain text with visible <tags>.

You probably didn't include a "Content-Type: text/html" header in the 
RFC822 headers. If that wasn't the problem I do have some code that 
works, but I'd have to strip out client-specific features before I 
posted it.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From merkosh at hadiko.de  Sun Nov 28 08:34:46 2004
From: merkosh at hadiko.de (Uwe Mayer)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 14:34:46 +0100
Subject: files in non-blocking mode?
Message-ID: <cock5m$lq5$1@news2.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>

Hi,

I want two python programs to communicate over stdIO channels. The one
executes the other via the popen3 function:

amc = Popen3("./amc/amc.py", True, 0)
line = stdin.readline()
amc.tochild.write(line)
amc.tochild.flush()
print amc.fromchild.readlines()

The problem is that although amc.tochild gets flushed the data never reaches
the client until the .tochild fd is closed. Is there any way to put IO
channels into non-blocking mode in python?

Thanks
Uwe


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Nov  8 10:24:19 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 08 Nov 2004 16:24:19 +0100
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<tyfekj44shs.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxizh.3rip5na92f0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyfacts4of3.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxn7d.19o8q51jt2gu5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyf1xf44ffs.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxube.1skk9cj1uago53N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <tyfwtww2wkc.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
>    ...
> > > Anyway, if my guess is correct that the demand for such a 'c++types'
> > > is really burning only on Windows,
> > 
> > What's behind this guess ?
> 
> The fact that Windows is the only widespread OS where getting a compiler
> isn't as easy as installing it, for free, off the OS media.

Ah, indeed. Once again my unusual environment stops me from seeing the
blatantly obvious :-)

> > And I also suspect that, in practice, there will be a fairly low
> > limit on the size of library that Boost can wrap, because of
> > compile-time memory consumption. ISTRT wrapping about 20-30
> > methods taken from about 5 classes used up half a Gb of RAM. So
> > you probably don't want the throw Boost at a whole library
> > indiscriminantly.
> 
> Wow -- THAT bad?!  Eeek.

I went back and checked.

38 methods (4 classes)
2 non-member functions.
4 instantiations of std::vector, with just one method each.

Compiling this with 256Mb RAM made the machine unusable for about 10
mins.

Upgrading to 768Mb RAM, made it not need to swap ... but it still
wasn't a breeze.

Sorry, can't be bothered to check exactly how much memory it does use.


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Thu Nov  4 08:54:41 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 14:54:41 +0100
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com> <2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <wzwtx167oe.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> (SB) wrote:

SB> (1)  A language is "weakly-typed" if it allows code to take a block of
SB> memory that was originally defined as one type and reinterpret the bits
SB> of this block as another type.
[...]
SB> Definition 1 is the definition most commonly used in Programming
SB> Languages literature, and allows a language to be called "weakly-typed"
SB> based only on the language definition. However, for all intents and
SB> purposes, it is only applicable to statically typed languages; no one
SB> on the list could come up with a dyamically typed language that allowed
SB> bit-reinterpretation.

Not in the language, but through library modules like struct.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Fri Nov 19 15:01:53 2004
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:01:53 -0800
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <20041119192934.EB3A81E4009@bag.python.org>
References: <20041119192934.EB3A81E4009@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <200411191201.53889.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

Anybody want to go in on patenting 

WhileNot
IfNot
AreNot (users would probably have to license both IsNot and AreNot)
UntilNot (borrowing from perl)
UnlessNot (ibid)
NotGreaterThan (shorthand !>)
NotLessThan (shorthand !<)

?


-- 
James Stroud, Ph.D.
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
611 Charles E. Young Dr. S.
MBI 205, UCLA 951570
Los Angeles CA 90095-1570
http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From jerf at jerf.org  Tue Nov 16 06:40:06 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 06:40:06 -0500
Subject: determining the number of output arguments
References: <mailman.6392.1100556222.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbg4k.13z20mj1w1o0ysN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:44:06 -0800, Josiah Carlson wrote:
>> I think it would be better to have a way to say 'and all the rest'.
>> Lacking that, some automated way to count how many items are being
>> unpacked on the LHS is probably second-best.
> 
> Is it worth a keyword, or would a sys.getframe()/bytecode hack be
> sufficient?

Who needs a keyword?

a, b, *c = [1, 2, 3, 4]
a, b, *c = [1, 2]

In the latter case I'd expect c to be the empty tuple.

Clear parallels to function syntax:

>>> def f(a, b, *c):
...     print c
... 
>>> f(1, 2, 3, 4)
(3, 4)
>>> f(1, 2)
()

No parallel for **, but... *shrug* who cares?


From niels_bohr at uol.com.br  Sat Nov  6 01:17:29 2004
From: niels_bohr at uol.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio?= Mendes)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 04:17:29 -0200
Subject: Has anyone released a Python "mock filesystem" for automated
	testing?
In-Reply-To: <OImdnYXxIItbfhfcRVn-iA@powergate.ca>
References: <OImdnYXxIItbfhfcRVn-iA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1099721849.12507.9.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Em Qui, 2004-11-04 ?s 21:31 -0500, Peter Hansen escreveu:
> The term "mock filesystem" refers to code allowing unit
> or acceptance tests to create, read and write, and manipulate
> in other ways "virtual" files, without any actual disk
> access.  Everything is held in memory and therefore fast,
> without risk of damaging real files, and with none of the
> messiness of leftover files after testing.

Maybe StringIO is a good start point. Depending on what you need (if
it's just read/write), everything is already there. 

Fabio


From mdoukidis at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 03:47:53 2004
From: mdoukidis at gmail.com (Mark Doukidis)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 00:47:53 -0800
Subject: Python on Nokia Phones ?
Message-ID: <8d851104.0411300047.1ea17809@posting.google.com>

Is it DEAD ?

An exciting prospect when I first heard of Nokia's proposal.

I thought there would be a few more postings here since the idea first
surfaced around Jan 2004.

Maybe I missed something.
Can anyone on the pilot program make a comment ?
Please give me reason to hope ?

Mark


From amirbud at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 23 07:41:06 2004
From: amirbud at yahoo.com (Alex)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 04:41:06 -0800
Subject: Filling Forms ( What is the best way to Print on Forms)
Message-ID: <cb15338f.0411230441.1b04a6d1@posting.google.com>

Please advice: I have some DMV forms that I would like to print on to
fill the answers, is there any good software to do this with? Any free
software to do this? I need to align it so the prints go on the
designated response areas!

Thanks a Million!

Alex
11-23-04
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de  Wed Nov  3 04:18:46 2004
From: behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 10:18:46 +0100
Subject: SOAPpy and .NET  - Help
In-Reply-To: <fWzhd.1265$O11.720@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <fWzhd.1265$O11.720@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <cma7pn$119$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>

Richard Kessler schrieb:
> The .NET service works fine responding to a SOAP request going over HTTP
> using httplib, but will not accept a call from SOAPpy.

It is generally a good idea in these cases to check what passes the wire. 
Take an HTTP monitor (ethereal or whatever) and look at the messages that 
are transported from one end to the other in both cases. After all, SOAP 
was intended to be a readable protocol...

Stefan


From anthonybaxter at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 07:42:06 2004
From: anthonybaxter at gmail.com (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:42:06 +1100
Subject: asynchat and threading
In-Reply-To: <opsh9fvsz71js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
References: <Ij1pd.19554$ld2.4796764@twister.nyc.rr.com>
	<mailman.6755.1101310280.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4edc17eb.0411241036.72eed3ef@posting.google.com>
	<41a505c2$0$20660$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<e69d3ed2041124173965892985@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.6889.1101762321.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<opsh9fvsz71js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
Message-ID: <e69d3ed204113004424329593b@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 23:24:54 -0500, Caleb Hattingh <caleb1 at telkomsa.net> wrote:
> I heartily support something like this, but alas I have not the time to
> help out with it.  I like the Enthought python distribution because it
> installs several packages in one shot.  A pity there isn't a similar thing
> for python addons in Linux (or is there?).

Plenty of people would like to see this. Alas, no-one has stepped forward
to do the work (or, if you have money but no time, to offer to fund the work).

Python runs on volunteers - no-one's done this yet, so it's not happened.


From roy at panix.com  Fri Nov 26 17:59:15 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:59:15 -0500
Subject: network programming without goto (refactoring)
References: <mailman.6783.1101394437.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-2D5E23.12225225112004@reader1.panix.com>
	<10qfcmta665kbeb@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <roy-FF4F1B.17591526112004@reader1.panix.com>

In article <10qfcmta665kbeb at corp.supernews.com>,
 Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:

> In Python, exceptions use 'raise', not 'throw'...

Doh!  I guess it shows that I've been doing a lot of C++ lately :-)


From bjourne at gmail.com  Fri Nov  5 20:40:00 2004
From: bjourne at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 02:40:00 +0100
Subject: How come wxPython isn't in the standard library?
Message-ID: <740c3aec041105174020578272@mail.gmail.com>

See: http://www.wxpython.org/quotes.php. especially:

"wxPython is the best and most mature cross-platform GUI toolkit,
given a number of constraints. The only reason wxPython isn't the
standard Python GUI toolkit is that Tkinter was there first." - Guido
van Rossum

Guess, that answers my question, but isn't "Tkinter was there first" a
very bad answer? :) It is kinda ugly too, so I wonder why it can't be
replaced? Or maybe another GUI library could complement it. IMHO,
having a good GUI library in the stdlib would make distributing GUI
apps much easier. Windows users (and many Linux users) doesn't like
searching the net to find and download lots of dependancies.

-- 
mvh Bj?rn


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Sat Nov  6 09:58:51 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 15:58:51 +0100
Subject: Python OS
References: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmin1n$500$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.6003.1099752590.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmiorc$j4b$03$1@news.t-online.com>

> I know, I read them.  The conclusion was that indeed, it can and in fact
> has been done.

Hm. I'll reread them myself and see if what has been achieved in this field.
But I seriously doubt that someone took a python interpreter and started
writing an OS. 

I can imagine having an OS _based_ on python, where the os api is exposed
using python - but still this requires a fair amount of lowlevel stuff that
can't be done in python itself, but must be written in C or even assembler.

> More what I meant was whether I can _prototype_ an OS in Python (i.e.
> make a virtual OS).

 
> P.S.  If one can program interrupt routines in C, they can do the same
> in Python.

Show me how you set the interrupt jumptables to your routines in python and
how you write time-critical code which has to be executed in a few hundred
cpu-cycles. And how good that works together with the GIL.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From batista.ric at iol.pt  Thu Nov  4 11:42:12 2004
From: batista.ric at iol.pt (Ricardo Batista)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:42:12 -0000
Subject: dijkstra algorithm by object oriented
Message-ID: <LOEJJKEIICMBHEHNCGNEKECGCBAA.batista.ric@iol.pt>

Ok. you are right.

I don't express my self in a rigth way.

I just want an idea to begin my work.

For example, how many classes do i implement.

I have an idea to create three classes, class Graph, class Vertex, class
edge.
But i don't know if i'm going in the rigth way.

This is the help i need.

Thanks.

-----Mensagem original-----
De: python-list-bounces+batista.ric=iol.pt at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+batista.ric=iol.pt at python.org]Em nome de
Peter Hansen
Enviada: quinta-feira, 4 de Novembro de 2004 15:08
Para: python-list at python.org
Assunto: Re: dijkstra algorithm by object oriented


Ricardo Batista wrote:
> I need that someone help me.
>
> I need to program the dijkstra algorithm by object oriented.
>
> I'll send my code.

Thanks, but you haven't asked a question.  Thus it sounds
as though you are simply asking for someone to make your
code work correctly.  Or maybe you're asking for someone
to convert it from the style shown to an object oriented
approach.

Either way, it sounds a lot like this is a homework question
for school, so I really hope nobody is going to just do the
work for you, since you won't learn anything that way.

Please reconsider what you are trying to do and ask a
specific question, demonstrating that you have made a
reasonable attempt to solve the problem yourself first.

-Peter
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
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From roy at panix.com  Mon Nov 22 08:46:39 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:46:39 -0500
Subject: Identifying exceptions that can be raised
References: <cVdnd.7986$tS4.4873@trndny09>
	<mailman.6579.1100837821.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<6Rknd.6671$%M4.4203@trndny08>
	<cnmcek$rju$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<JQNnd.2125$hJ6.1416@trndny01>
	<cnrli6$j1o$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<roy-E384F5.07475422112004@reader1.panix.com>
	<cnso32$k1f$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <roy-0316FB.08463922112004@reader1.panix.com>

I wrote:
>> You're saying you should write the code without even looking at 
>> the documentation.

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> Did I say that somewhere?

You said, "Perhaps it's actually documented... I don't know and didn't 
bother looking."  If I misinterpreted your statement, I apologize.

> In other words, the documentation in this case happens to align
> with the actual behaviour of file objects.
> 
> Now I ask you, how often does documentation either not mention
> the fact at all (which was the topic of this thread until now),
> or -- perhaps less common with standard library code, but widespread
> with other code -- mention things that are inaccurate and wrong?

Of course there is bad documentation in the world.  If the documented 
and actual behavior of the code differ, there's clearly a bug somewhere.  
It could be that the documentation is wrong, or it could be that the 
code is wrong.  Both happen.  Both kinds of bugs should be fixed when 
they are discovered.

> In other words, which should one trust more, the documentation
> or the actual observed behaviour?

Well, that's an interesting question, and I'm not sure there's a simple 
answer to it.  Certainly, if my testing determines that read() throws 
ValueError under certain situations which are not documented, it would 
be foolish for me to pretend that it didn't happen because the 
documentation doesn't say so.  But on the other hand, if I discovered 
that math.pi had the value 3, I would be equally foolish to write code 
which depended on that behavior.

> Ultimately, however, this is a silly argument, because neither
> you nor I write code solely in the manner I described, nor
> in the manner you appear to be recommending (i.e. going exclusively
> based on the documentation), so I'm not even sure why you
> wrote...

I never recommended going exclusively from the docs.  I started out by 
saying:

> I'm a big fan of test-driven development, but not to the extent that I 
> feel I can ignore reading the documentation to see how something is 
> supposed to work.

Anyway, it would look like both of us have unintentionally 
misinterpreted what each other has said.  I think in the end we both 
agree that reading the docs is important, and testing is important too.  
Both give us information which is unavailable from the other.


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Tue Nov  2 09:48:53 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 06:48:53 -0800
Subject: saved sys.path
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5797.1099369171.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <%Xmhd.29071$g4.544104@news2.nokia.com>	<1gmkht7.1e1lg86qerk5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.5765.1099319253.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gmlelr.q7q1rz5rc37oN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5797.1099369171.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4187a33c$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Eric S. Johansson wrote:
> Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
>> The modifications to sys.path performed by .pth files are visible to all
>> applications.  A single application may (however it chooses to do so)
>> find out or determine a path it wants only for its own imports, and
> ...historical record deleted
>>  Python is not particularly different, from the point of view of "where
 >> does an app find its own configuration information", from most other
>> languages.
> 
> from historical perspective, I understand and appreciate your 
> explanation.  However, just because it's historically accurate, does it 
> mean we should keep doing things the same old way?
> 

There is a danger to watch out for here.  A great Python success is that
it works in and on the local OS.  I have always felt that languages as
otherwise successful as APL and Smalltalk have failed by defining their
own conventions (for file storage and such), rather than respecting the
local conventions.

Python attempts the local dance, and it is locality, not history, that
affects the details of the dance.  Mac people (for example) won't care
about the "Python convention" initially and might reject Python because
"it doesn't put information in the right place."  There is a line here
to be careful about.  History is not an arrow, but an exploration of
possibilities.

I mention this not as a "killer rebuttal," but as a "there be dragons here."

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Fri Nov 26 12:41:35 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 18:41:35 +0100
Subject: dictionary initialization
In-Reply-To: <co5j9k$jgv$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
References: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<lIydnVF-WvXK3TvcRVn-jA@rogers.com>
	<slrncqciv9.ip7.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<co5j9k$jgv$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <20041126174135.GA2853@nl.linux.org>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> >In my example, it was b[1]+=1. "+=1" should at least tell Python two
> >things: this is an add operation and one of the operands is an
> >integer. 
> 
> Why would it tell Python that?

Well, the rhs of 'foo+=1' is always an integer.

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Lulea / Kallax, Sweden 26/11 17:20:
	-8.0?C   wind 6.7 m/s NW (34 m above NAP)
-- 
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of
unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the
military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of
misplaced power exists and will persist.
    -Dwight David Eisenhower, January 17, 1961


From romankaminski at lucent.com  Thu Nov  4 09:24:44 2004
From: romankaminski at lucent.com (Roman Kaminski)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 06:24:44 -0800
Subject: How to use sys.stdout
References: <cmclfi$cgm$1@netnews.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <b588672.0411040624.65049900@posting.google.com>

"Leon" <square690410 at yahoo.com.tw> wrote in message news:<cmclfi$cgm$1 at netnews.hinet.net>...
> what does it have properties ?
> what does it have method ?
> how to use they ? or where can find any information
> 
> please help me

An example:

s:/home/rkam>python
Python 2.3.3 (#1, May  3 2004, 20:19:41) 
[GCC 3.3.1] on sunos5
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> dir( sys.stdout)
['__class__', '__delattr__', '__doc__', '__getattribute__',
'__hash__', '__init_                  _', '__iter__', '__new__',
'__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__setattr                 
__', '__str__', 'close', 'closed', 'encoding', 'fileno', 'flush',
'isatty', 'mod                  e', 'name', 'newlines', 'next',
'read', 'readinto', 'readline', 'readlines', 'se                  ek',
'softspace', 'tell', 'truncate', 'write', 'writelines', 'xreadlines']
>>> sys.stdout.write( 'hello world\n')
hello world
>>> 

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-sys.html

Good luck,
Roman Kaminski


From foo at bar.com  Wed Nov 10 20:02:48 2004
From: foo at bar.com (Steve Menard)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:02:48 -0500
Subject: property for class objects
In-Reply-To: <4192594f.112495279@news.oz.net>
References: <mailman.6198.1100056948.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zvgkd.40384$ak3.1503768@wagner.videotron.net>
	<4191edee.85006843@news.oz.net>
	<eIokd.43311$ak3.1624905@wagner.videotron.net>
	<4192594f.112495279@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <ZSykd.44861$ak3.1920602@wagner.videotron.net>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:28:22 -0500, Steve Menard <foo at bar.com> wrote:
> [...]
> 
>>I wasnt aware of those descriptors (I am just now delving in the "meta" 
>>side of things), and it looks promising. So thanks for taking the time 
>>to tlel me about it :)
>>
>>Static variables are not just constants however, and the __set__ has to 
>>work as normal. I did a quick test and it seems by mistake you can even 
>>erase the descriptor with a new value .. not good.
>>
> 
> Yes, the __set__ only gets called for instance attributes, unless there
> is something intercepting the class attribute setattr.
> 
> 
>>At least I can use this for the constant static values (which probably 
>>comprises the bulk) and use the __setattr__ to prevent overwriting them.
>>
> 
> If they're actually constant, why couldn't they be plain old class variables
> protected by __setattr__?
> 
> 

You're right about constants. I could convert them at class-definition 
time instead of access-time. Thus only the case of non-constant static 
members do I need to find a solution ...

>>Steve
>>
>>Still looking for a more complete solution howeber
> 
> Don't know what syntax restrictions you have, but if you are trying to simulate
> shared static value assignment via an apparent instance attribute assignment, e.g.,
> 
>     inst.static = value
> 
> why do you need to write
> 
>     InstClass.static = something
> 

Static members are not common in Python. They are however fairly common 
in Java. So I was hoping to preserve the

	InstClass.value = something



> at all? You could always make a dummy instance to use when all you
> wanted to do was access the shared statics, e.g.,
> 
>     shared = InstClass()
>     ...
>     shared.static = something
> 
> or even a dynamically created throwaway instance, as in
> 
>     InstClass().static = something
> 
This is not an option, as some Java classes that mutable static 
variables are not instantiatable.

> If you wanted to designate certain names for shared statics to be stored
> as class variables, you could do something like (only tested as you see here ;-):
> 
>  >>> class HasStatics(object):
>  ...     static_names = 'sa sb sz'.split()
>  ...     def __setattr__(self, name, value):
>  ...         if name in self.static_names: setattr(type(self), name, value)
>  ...         else: object.__setattr__(self, name, value)
>  ...
>  >>> hs = HasStatics()
>  >>> vars(hs)
>  {}
>  >>> hs.x = 123
>  >>> vars(hs)
>  {'x': 123}
>  >>> hs.sa = 456
>  >>> vars(hs)
>  {'x': 123}
>  >>> HasStatics.sa
>  456
>  >>> hs.sa
>  456
>  >>> vars(HasStatics).keys()
>  ['__module__', '__setattr__', '__dict__', 'sa', '__weakref__', '__doc__', 'static_names']
> 
> static_names would be faster as a dict of the names (with ignored values), or possibly now
> a set.
> 

This is what I do now. However, this break with the following situation :

class A(object) :
	# class has a property called foo

class B(A) :
	...

B.foo

As each class only contain it's static variables and not it's ancestors. 
I bypass this problem by accumlating all static variables in each class, 
including the static variables of all bases. It works, but then dir() 
reports variable that are not really there.

thanks for the suggestions,

Steve

> Regards,
> Bengt Richter


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Sat Nov 13 05:36:43 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 02:36:43 -0800
Subject: Regarding color conversion (RGB->CMYK)
In-Reply-To: <oxeld.5247$qv5.4826@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
References: <4194bd54$0$75308$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>
	<oxeld.5247$qv5.4826@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <cn4o3r$2l4$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Cy Edmunds wrote:

> There is no simple way to convert RGB to CMYK for the simple reason that 
> CMYK is a device dependent color space. (Actually, unless it is calibrated 
> somehow RGB is a device dependent color space also.) A good way to do the 
> conversion is to get the ICC profile for the device that made the RGB and 
> another ICC profile for the device which will print the CMYK and convert one 
> to the other using a color management module -- aka a CMM. I don't know if 
> ImageMagick can do this for you or not but it would be very hard to get the 
> colors right any other way.

LittleCMS has Python bindings.

http://www.littlecms.com/

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Wed Nov 17 07:00:03 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 12:00:03 GMT
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
References: <mailman.6380.1100532166.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpjdjo.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<10pkiaqch4edo08@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrncpmf8n.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-11-16, Jeff Shannon schreef <jeff at ccvcorp.com>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
>>Op 2004-11-15, Jp Calderone schreef <exarkun at divmod.com>:
>>  
>>
>>>You are correct, but why does it matter?  The Queue class works.
>>>    
>>>
>>
>>Does it?
>>
>>I'm not so sure. If two consumers ask simultaneously for an element
>>from the same empty queue. One consumer simply blocking and the
>>other using a timeout, I think that if an element is produced within
>>the timeout period the chance for the element going to either consumer
>>should be equal. I doubr very much we have that in the current
>>situation.
>>  
>>
>
> This is just my opinion, of course, but it seems to me that if you have 
> two completely different threads (as in, threads running different 
> functions, not merely separate instances of the same threaded function) 
> which are accessing the same queue in different ways, and presumably 
> doing different things with the queue's products (because why would you 
> access the queue differently if you weren't doing different things?), 
> then you've *already* got enough nondeterministic behavior that this 
> timeout issue isn't going to be a burden in practice.  To be honest, I 
> find the thought of having different consumers which do different things 
> with a single queue's products to just scream out as a source of 
> hard-to-track problems -- how could one possibly get predictable 
> behavior from that?  So yes, if you do that, you might get an odd 
> distribution of products -- but why would you want to do it?

You are mostly right, but with one small caveat. There are no locks
with a timeout in python. So if you want one of those the easiest
way to simulate them is with queues with maximum 1 element.

> I *do* understand about wanting to receive signals in (worker) threads, 
> but I don't understand how this particular behavior of queues could ever 
> be a practical problem in a real program.  Of course, maybe I'm just 
> missing something, or maybe you're looking at this from a 
> theoretical-purity aspect...

Well I must confess that theoretical-purity appeals to me. So I prefer
a solution that always works, to one that only works for all practical
purposes. So if signals to worker threads were allowed I certainly would
feel the urge to rewrite the queue module for myself. Although that is
now what I would use them for in the first place.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu  Thu Nov 25 03:02:34 2004
From: chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu (Chris S.)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 08:02:34 GMT
Subject: Use Python library from C++
In-Reply-To: <1101364143.006433.314340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <89cc6e1f.0411241939.61a19596@posting.google.com>
	<1101364143.006433.314340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ukgpd.12554$Vy.6850@trndny06>

zhao wrote:

> Try boost.python and SWIG?
> (boost.sourceforge.net, swig.sourceforge.net)
> 
> Both provide a interface between C/C++ and python
> if you want gui under python, you also can try wxpython or pygtk

I thought SWIG ported C/C++ libraries to Perl, Python, Ruby, Tcl, etc? 
How would you use it to port Python into C/C++?

I think what you're looking for is instruction on how to embed Python in 
your C/C++ application.


From unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom  Wed Nov  3 19:01:46 2004
From: unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom (Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non triviale en fuite perpétuelle.)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 01:01:46 +0100
Subject: Python for PDAs/Mobile phones?
References: <cmab25$7il$1@news.tudelft.nl>
Message-ID: <41897176$0$26951$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !

J'ai trouv? ces liens :

    http://feetup.org/blog/dev/python/symbianPython.html

    http://quizzebox.quintessenz.at/pipermail/sympython/

    http://141.3.25.168:8080/symbian/







From jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 13 13:44:20 2004
From: jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (fuzzylollipop)
Date: 13 Nov 2004 10:44:20 -0800
Subject: Python to measure HTTP and HTTPS performances: best way ???
In-Reply-To: <5c184570.0411120240.6ef29928@posting.google.com>
References: <5c184570.0411120240.6ef29928@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1100371460.649252.245890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

HTTPS is usually about 5x slower than HTTP on the exact same web server
because of the encryption.
Best to send a mid-sized JPG or PNG and time that.



From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Nov  1 14:19:18 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 11:19:18 -0800
Subject: re.compile
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E32450EF@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Brad Tilley wrote:
> Is there a quick way to make re.compile show what it's looking for?
> 
> x = re.compile('[a-z]')

Probably. But there isn't a quick way to ask for it. Try explaining what
you want more fully.


FuManChu


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Nov 24 03:10:59 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:10:59 +0100
Subject: namespace & imported modules
References: <799208ed.0411232158.2a6d0782@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <co1fmi$ugu$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Jason wrote:

> I've been having trouble understanding the difference between global
> namespace within and between modules.  For example, I can program a

Did you know that global variables are only global to the module?

> from subfile import thread1, thread2        # this should be the only

This will bind the names thread1 and thread2 in the importing module, i. e.
you have now two distinct thread1 variables no longer pointing to the same
object after a thread1 = something assignment in one of the modules. Do 

import subfile

instead and access the variables with qualified names

subfile.thread1 = something

in all modules except subfile.py, and everything should be OK.

Peter



From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 17:28:10 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 20:28:10 -0200
Subject: seeking a new host for the "Python Grimoire"
In-Reply-To: <b16e4ef7.0411170751.1a142bb5@posting.google.com>
References: <b16e4ef7.0411161729.51e2ea80@posting.google.com>
	<b16e4ef7.0411170751.1a142bb5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <864d370904111714287baae610@mail.gmail.com>

On 17 Nov 2004 07:51:43 -0800, Stephen Ferg <steve at ferg.org> wrote:
> STATUS UPDATE
> 
> Talking to Richie Hindle has given me the idea of setting up the
> Grimoire as a wiki on Python.org.
> 
> I'm not a real sophisticated wiki user, but I can probably do it.
> 
> I really like the idea of the Grimoire becoming community-maintained
> documentation, something that I've advocated for a long time, and
> something that I think we need more of.
> 
> If the wiki idea doesn't work out, there are a couple of folks who
> have volunteered to host the Grimoire in the future.

A WIki is definitely the way to go. However, hosting it inside the
main Python Wiki is problematic. Wikis aren't usually very bright when
it comes to naming scopes :-) so it's probably better to have it
implemented as a standalone Wiki. Anyway, having it on the Python Wiki
is better than not having it at all.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Nov 30 07:17:06 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 12:17:06 GMT
Subject: Restricted Execution on the cheap
References: <-OOdncnDLL2e1jHcRVn-hw@lmi.net>
Message-ID: <Xns95B17CF4681A6duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

David Pokorny wrote:

> Suppose that one wants to set up a machine to accept python code from,
> say, arbitrary email, and run it safely. Would the following
> (somewhat draconian) precautions be sufficient?
> [assume the Python code is in hack.py]
> 
> grep exec    hack.py ==> nothing
> grep eval    hack.py ==> nothing
> etc... for 'import', 'builtin', 'globals','reload'
> 'compile', 'file', 'open', 'input', 'locals', 'vars'
> 

Assuming you think *very* hard about everything that someone might try. 

Your list above certainly isn't enough though. I'm pretty sure you also 
need to block getattr otherwise:

>>> def f(): pass
>>> getattr(getattr(f, 
'shap_tybonyf'.decode('rot13'))['__ohvygvaf__'.decode('rot13')], 
'x\x9cK\xce\xcf-\xc8\xccI\x05\x00\x0b\xaf\x02\xea'.decode('zip'))
<built-in function compile>



From ngps at netmemetic.com  Fri Nov 26 14:38:24 2004
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 19:38:24 GMT
Subject: asynchat and threading
References: <Ij1pd.19554$ld2.4796764@twister.nyc.rr.com>
	<mailman.6755.1101310280.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4edc17eb.0411241036.72eed3ef@posting.google.com>
	<41a505c2$0$20660$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <co80ng$53m$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>

According to Martin v. L?wis <martin at v.loewis.de>:
> AFAICT, the main complaint is that it is tied to the TCP transport,
> the sockets API, and the select/poll API. IOW, it cannot easily:
> - integrate TLS on top of TCP (because TLS might involve no-data
>    communications, e.g. when TLS negotation happens in the middle
>    of a TLS session),

M2Crypto does SSL/TLS over Medusa/asyncore since 1999. ZServerSSL - SSL for
Zope, which is Medusa-based - has been available since 1999 or 2000.

I don't imagine a pure Python TLS implementation is impossible to layer
over asyncore either.

Cheers.

-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://sandbox.rulemaker.net/ngps -+- M2Crypto, ZServerSSL for Zope, Blog
http://www.sqlcrypt.com -+- Database Engine with Transparent AES Encryption


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 12:50:52 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:50:52 GMT
Subject: How to get an item from a simple set?
In-Reply-To: <41a4bbce.908273778@news.oz.net>
References: <mzx7xo74.fsf@wgmail2.gatwick.eur.slb.com>
	<OX1pd.561230$mD.125849@attbi_s02> <41a4bbce.908273778@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <0S3pd.561504$mD.109270@attbi_s02>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:40:30 GMT, Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>[item] = s
>>>>>item
>>
>>'foo'
>>
>>It's up to you whether you like the tuple or list syntax better. =)
>>
> 
> Thanks. I didn't realize a list format could be used to specify target names
> like that. My intial reaction is a bendy feeling in my list expression syntax
> recognizer, though. I'm not sure I like that on the left hand side.
> It feels too much like __setitem__ on some implied object. The tuple syntax
> on the left hand side is only for unpacking (unless you want to imagine invoking
> an implied unnamed function, but that's a stretch IMO), so it doesn't trigger
> that near-miss syntax recognition feeling.

Yeah, I almost always prefer the tuple (comma) syntax, but occasionally 
I find the list syntax clearer, if, for example, I'm unpacking a nested 
single-item list:

 >>> t
[['abcd'], 1, 2]
 >>> (x,), y, z = t
 >>> x, y, z
('abcd', 1, 2)

The ,), in the tuple-only unpacking makes me uncomfortable for some 
reason.  I feel marginally more comfortable with:

 >>> [x], y, z = t
 >>> x, y, z
('abcd', 1, 2)

Of course, I generally feel uncomfortable if I have a weird unpacking 
thing like this anyway.  It pretty much only comes up for me when I want 
to assign some default values in one branch of a try/except or if/else 
statement, e.g.

try:
      x, y = s
except ValueError:
      [x], y = s, None

Steve


From mwm at mired.org  Fri Nov  5 18:00:42 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 17:00:42 -0600
Subject: CGIs and file exclusion
References: <2uvedvF2g1pv3U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<6f402501.0411050228.aea8068@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <x73bznsxyd.fsf@guru.mired.org>

fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord) writes:

> "darkhorse" <not_my_address at terra.es> wrote in message news:<2uvedvF2g1pv3U1 at uni-berlin.de>...
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> While doing a quite big "set of programs" for a university subject I've
>> found myself in the middle of a problem someone surely has had before, so
>> I'm looking for some help.
>> 
>> At one point, I call a python cgi that pickle.load's a file, adds or deletes
>> a registry and dumps the result again in the file.
>> I'm worried that the cgi could be called simultaneously from two or more
>> different computers, thus most probably corrupting the files. I don't think
>> I can use a mutex as it's two different instances of the program and not
>> different threads, so I was thinking about locking the files between
>> programs, but I really don't know how to do that. It's not a problem if
>> there's no portable way of doing this, it's only going to be run on a linux
>> based computer.
>> Another solution I would accept is that the second called cgi detects that
>> other instance is running and displays a message saying to try again later.
>> Yes, not quite professional, but it'd do the job, after all this is just a
>> little detail I want to settle for a quite picky professor and not a "real
>> life" thing.
>> I think that's all the background you need, if someone can answer with
>> references on what should I look for or even better example code that would
>> be simply great.
>> Many thanks in advance.
>> DH
>
> A simple solution that doesn't scale well is to create a file when the
> access starts. You can check if the file exists and pause until the
> other process deletes it - with a timeout in case the file gets keft
> there due to an error.
>
> Obviously not an industrial strength solution, but it does work...

To strengthen the solution, write the process id of the script
(available via os.getpid()) to the file. If the file doesn't vanish before
your timeout, you can check to see if the process is still around, and
kill it.

     <mike

> import time
> import os
>
> def sleep(thelockfile, sleepcycle=0.01, MAXCOUNT=200):
>     """Sleep until the lockfile has been removed or a certain number
> of cycles have gone.
>     Defaults to a max 2 second delay.
>     """
>     counter = 0
>     while os.path.exists(thelockfile):
>         time.sleep(sleepcycle)
>         counter += 1
>         if counter > MAXCOUNT:
      f = file(thelockfile)
      pid = int(f.read())
      f.close()
      p = os.popen("/bin/ps -p %s" % pid)
      l = p.read().split('\n')
      p.close()
      if len(l) > 2:
          os.kill(pid, 9)
      

> def createlock(thelockfile):
>     """Creates a lockfile from the path supplied."""
      f = file(thelockfile, 'w')
      f.write(str(os.getpid()))
      f.close()
>     
> def releaselock(thelockfile):
>     """Deletes the lockfile."""
>     if os.path.isfile(thelockfile):
>         os.remove(thelockfile)
>
> The sleep function waits until the specified file dissapears - or it
> times out.
>
> Regards,
>
> Fuzzy
>
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html

-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From daniel.dittmar at sap.corp  Mon Nov 29 09:02:05 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.corp (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:02:05 +0100
Subject: Closing files
In-Reply-To: <1gnz2kq.1jnqpi01tkznh0N%news+0409@henrikholm.com>
References: <1gnz2kq.1jnqpi01tkznh0N%news+0409@henrikholm.com>
Message-ID: <cofa4u$l9i$1@news.sap-ag.de>

Henrik Holm wrote:
> I have recently started playing around with Python.  Some of the things
> I have done have involved reading files.  The way I do this is along the
> lines of
> 
>   f = file('file.txt')
>   lines = f.readlines()
>   f.close()
> 
> I have noticed that it is possible to do this in one line:
> 
>   lines = file('file.txt').readlines()
> 
> My question is: does the file get closed if I do the reading in this
> manner?

The file gets closed in CPython because file objects are closed when the 
last reference to them gets deleted. (I guess when the .readlines () 
returns)

When you use Jython or IronPython, the file will be closed sometime 
later when the file object gets garbage collected. This can lead to 
problems becaause the process might run out of file handles before the 
garbage collection and file locks are held a lot longer.

This led to two camps.

One camp thinks that the correct way would be
f = file('file.txt')
try:
     lines = f.readlines()
finally:
     f.close()

The other camp thinks that reference counting should be implemented in 
all Python implementations.

And then there are a lot of people who think that changing all the 
readlines one liner would be quite easy should the need of a Jython port 
arrive, so why bother about it now?

Daniel


From lbates at syscononline.com  Mon Nov  8 10:40:12 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 09:40:12 -0600
Subject: Email "portal" in Python?
In-Reply-To: <f7199550.0411072019.182a98df@posting.google.com>
References: <f7199550.0411072019.182a98df@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <UPSdnc887qfGDhLcRVn-sQ@comcast.com>

What you are describing is Zope (perhaps with Plone add-on).
As with any "powerful" application framework it will require
you to customize it for your purposes.

www.zope.org
www.plone.org

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

Peter Clark wrote:
> Think of something like MyYahoo: a personalized portal with news
> aggregator, weather forecast, comics, etc. Now instead of visiting a
> web site, think of all of it being sent daily as an email. It does
> have a web interface, but mostly for selecting your content: this is
> my location for weather, these are the news feeds I'm interested in,
> these are the comics I like, save my preferences, and the server takes
> care of the rest. Does such a thing exist? (Even in other non-Python
> languages?) I've tried Freshmeat, and the other usual sources, but so
> far, nothing. If there isn't any such creature, I'll write my own, but
> I wanted to first check that I'm not re-inventing the wheel.
> 
> Thanks,
> :Peter


From jbellis at gmail.com  Mon Nov  8 08:19:48 2004
From: jbellis at gmail.com (Jonathan  Ellis)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 05:19:48 -0800
Subject: Py2exe help for beginner
In-Reply-To: <51908f36.0411080408.2772f6c4@posting.google.com>
References: <51908f36.0411080408.2772f6c4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1099919988.846194.81310@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

PeterFI wrote:

> my setup.py looks like this
>
> from distutils.core import setup
> import glob,os,sys
> import py2exe
>
>
> setup(name='MyIterator',
>       version='0.2',
>       author='P.P',
>       py_modules=["Iterator"])
>
> it runs nicely but no exe is created? What am I missing?
You're missing a "windows=" or "console=" argument.

-Jonathan



From frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com  Mon Nov  1 05:00:28 2004
From: frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com (Frithiof Andreas Jensen)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 11:00:28 +0100
Subject: Linksys Router & Python
References: <cltjkt$4fi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <cm5199$nis$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>


"Brad Tilley" <bradtilley at gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cltjkt$4fi$1 at solaris.cc.vt.edu...

> Is there any way to get a scaled down version of Python onto a Linksys
> Wireless router? Are there any projects out there that are doing this?

Probably - There are some Linux + development tools for the LinkSys WRT54G
router.
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20040527.html
http://www.i-hacked.com/Computer_Components/Networking/Linksys_WRT54G_and_WRT54GS_Hacking.html

Maybe the devices are somewhat identical:
http://www.batbox.org/nslu2-linux.html

> I've googled around a bit, but didn't find much. I want to keep the
> router's software as it is, but I also would like to have some scripting
> abilities on it as well (like email the router's IP addy every x hours),

Those requirements are mutually exclusive.




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Nov 16 12:22:48 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:22:48 -0800
Subject: simple symetric encryption advice
In-Reply-To: <slrncpkai7.8ir.iddwb@moroni.pp.asu.edu>
References: <slrncpkai7.8ir.iddwb@moroni.pp.asu.edu>
Message-ID: <20041116091921.F970.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


David Bear <iddwb at moroni.pp.asu.edu> wrote:
> 
> I would like some advice on what crypto lib to use. I am writing a cgi
> app that will store sensative data in a backend postgresql server. I
> have some simple numeric data I would like to make as safe as
> possible, without too much overhead.
> 
> The goal would be to store the information in a simple reversable
> encrypted form. The encryption key would live only in the python app
> that was accessing the data. So perhaps there are two general
> questions that could be asked.
> 
> 1) has anyone else done this, and was it worth the extra overhead in
> terms of data security.. yes, I know the system will only be as secure
> as the python code.
> 
> 2) more important to me, what crypto lib would make sense to use. I
> was looking at using symetric key ciphers because the data will need
> to be decrypted as well. I looked at the rotor class but there's a big
> note that it has been deprecated.. Anyone have a recommendation as to
> something better?
> 
> by better I would mean: 1) something reasonably fast, (retreiving 1000
> tupples of something should require much time to decrypt) 2) something
> that the code is fairly well reviewed and tested -- (I know all python
> modules are well reviewed and tested, but there must be some modules
> that are more equal than others;)).

Check out the pure Python TLS Lite and its AES or RC4 ciphers (no
worries about compilation). They should be reasonable for most tasks,
and if you need more speed, There's always using PyCrypto, OpenSSL and
Cryptlib.

 - Josiah



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  5 11:23:36 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 17:23:36 +0100
Subject: inferred typing
References: <slrncohibr.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<du78y9jqbu0.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<c56b627e.0411032129.42843794@posting.google.com>
	<slrncon96t.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <1gmsg8y.1stp3lkqwq4qtN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Gabriel Zachmann <zach at cs.uni-bonn.de> wrote:

> Thanks for your responses.
> 
> Both Boo and Starkiller sound quite interesting.
> Boo seems to have some momentum, but what about Starkiller, once the PhD is
> finished?
> 
> Also, both are python compilers.

Boo is a different language, pythonlike but not python.

> I was hoping for something more like Hotspot for Java, i.e.,
> something which compiles parts of the python script that turn out not to be
> really dynamic at run-time and that are executed a lot.
> 
> Anything along those lines?

psyco?

> In addition, I am not sure that any effort that is not integrated into
> mainstream Python will have a real chance to achieve widespread use ...

I strongly doubt anything like a JIT will get integrated into mainstream
Python before it's very solid, which probably requires it to get
widespread first.


Alex


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov 26 16:14:17 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:14:17 -0500
Subject: dictionary initialization
References: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca><lIydnVF-WvXK3TvcRVn-jA@rogers.com><slrncqciv9.ip7.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca><co5j9k$jgv$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net><mailman.6817.1101490908.5135.python-list@python.org><slrncqerc9.sic.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca><opsh3pirx21js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
	<ufmdneh24KVgEjrcRVn-pw@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <co86at$b9k$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote in message 
news:ufmdneh24KVgEjrcRVn-pw at rogers.com...
>
> "Caleb Hattingh" <caleb1 at telkomsa.net> wrote in message 
> news:opsh3pirx21js0xs at news.telkomsa.net...
>> IF this is the point you are making, and the awk functionality 
>> demostrated in this particular example is a really significant feature 
>> for you in your specific problem domain, then I must concede that awk is 
>> probably right for you, and you shouldn't waste your time with Python.
>
> And just like that, the discussion turned religious.  It's hard to assess 
> someone's tone when it comes in writing, but, Caleb, you sound sarcastic 
> and belligerent to me.

To me, Caleb was being only slightly and possibly sarcastic in the process 
of giving friendly good advice to the effect of "better to use Awk and 
produce than to beat you head against a wall trying to change a basic 
Python design decision.

Almost every design decision has plusses and minuses for designers and 
others to weigh.  No matter what the designer decides, there will be users 
who weigh the factors enough differently to really wish that the decision 
was otherwise.  In fact, there will probably be another language whose 
designer did decide otherwise.  And in this case, with regard to the 
handling of uninitialized variables, there is.

A Python religion fanatic might have made the opposite suggestion --  
something like 'your factor weighting is wrong; see the light and bow to 
the superior wisdom of how Python does it'.

Terry J. Reedy





From atterdan at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  5 04:28:35 2004
From: atterdan at yahoo.com (John Doe)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 09:28:35 GMT
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.05.09.23.39.248718@yahoo.com>

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 05:58:09 +0000, Maurice LING wrote:

> This may be a dumb thing to ask, but besides the penalty for dynamic 
> typing, is there any other real reasons that Python is slower than Java?
> 
> maurice

Hi Maurice,
the issue is compiling and bytecode. Python and Java compile source to
their own bytecodes. Bytecode is a binary that is portable between many
Operating Systems. Some time in 1999 (I think) IBM developed a jit or
Just In Time compiler for Java (Apple invented the JIT concept earlier to
make 68000 code work on their new line of PowerPC Macs). 

The JIT compiler compiled java to both bytecode and native OS opcode. This
offered increase speed on the second + runs. The binary was suppose to be
compiled into a block containing bytecode and opcode. If the java runtime
noted that the opcode segment was 'native', it was suppose to run it, over
the bytecode. This gives the 'faster' perception. 

Of course some company, afraid their developers might build there GUI apps
with java, over their native mode (thus making their application work
anywhere Java worked) went ahead and developed a version of the java
compiler that stripped out the bytecode. This made the binary
smaller, but locked it to one OS/arch. You can guess about which
corporation that was. Lawsuits followed. The company in question lost and
decided to drop Java for their own version of Java, JavaLite, sometimes
called 'see' 'sharp'. 

Now as to speed... If you want speed, develop in Python or Perl to
get the form of your program. Development time is faster, even if the
execution is slow. Both provide OOP bindings. Once the program is up and
running, you can use profiling to determine which parts of your
interpreted code is slowest and most often used. These you rewrite as
C/C++ code and call them from within python. 

In this way version 1.0 is all python. v1.1 has 20% C++; v1.2 is 34% C++
... until v2.0 is all C++. Each upgrades is faster, but does not introduce
any new functionality and the risks that new functions imply.

If you were faithful to this concept, version 3 requires you to use the
oldest python branch who's functions will not be modified, to start
development. Could be v1.1 or 1.9. 

C/C++ is for speed, not development.

Dan Atterton
atterdan at yahoo.com





From daniel.dittmar at sap.corp  Tue Nov 23 12:54:42 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.corp (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:54:42 +0100
Subject: pyQt data aware objects for Windows
In-Reply-To: <1101229709.560806.122070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1101229709.560806.122070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cnvth2$knc$1@news.sap-ag.de>

Paul Drummond wrote:
> Sorry if this is the wrong place to post - is there a pyQt newsgroup?
> I know there is a mailing list but I hate them!

http://www.gmane.org/ allows you to access many mailing list as 
newsgroups. You can add new mailing lists if they aren't registered yet, 
but you should probably check with the mailing list members first if 
it's ok.

Daniel


From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Thu Nov  4 13:08:24 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 19:08:24 +0100
Subject: New configuration module released
In-Reply-To: <VPWdnWBATKx3wxTcRVn-ug@rogers.com>
References: <2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840@posting.google.com><4d2dnXe5XY7bmxTcRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<mailman.5876.1099519315.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<VPWdnWBATKx3wxTcRVn-ug@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <2uv9goF2f3161U1@uni-berlin.de>

Dan Perl wrote:

> It's just an idea and I haven't put a lot of thought in it myself, but what 
> about using XML for the configuration syntax?

I'm currently using YAML for configuration syntax. I don't need object
references as in the OP's module, so I'm happy with it.

It's also easy to change for users.

Reinhold


-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From bh at intevation.de  Tue Nov 30 05:24:41 2004
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:24:41 +0100
Subject: comment out more than 1 line at once?
References: <cohc71$2pqli$1@claire.desy.de>
	<mailman.6908.1101807392.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cohg3q$2q1b5$1@claire.desy.de>
Message-ID: <s9z7jo34ot2.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

Riko Wichmann <riko.wichmann at remove-this.desy.de> writes:

> I'm using emacs (with python-mode) to do most of my editing.
[...]
> Maybe I just don't know to comment out whole blocks using editor
> commands.

comment-dwim (usually bound to M-; ) comments out the region if it's
active, or, if the region is already commented, uncomments it.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Skencil                                           http://skencil.org/
Thuban                                  http://thuban.intevation.org/


From phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk  Tue Nov 30 10:23:56 2004
From: phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:23:56 -0000 (GMT)
Subject: threading, qt, and the freakout
In-Reply-To: <604fc0ca.0411291928.4d59781d@posting.google.com>
References: <604fc0ca.0411291928.4d59781d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <61642.82.68.80.137.1101828236.squirrel@82.68.80.137>

What versions of Python, PyQt, SIP, Qt?

Qt imposes restrictions on which parts of the API can be called in
different threads - check the Qt documentation.

Python has bugs in its thread implementation. These (the ones that affect
PyQt anyway) are fixed in Python 2.4.

Also see the "Support for Threads" section in the PyQt documentation.

Phil

> Hey everyone,
>
> Why doesn't this work? The code speaks much more clearly than I do,
> so i shortened it and pasted it below.  Running this
> and clicking on 'Break Me' will... freak out the window...
>
> But... only when the pushbutton_obj.setText("Updated") line
> is in the thread. If I comment out the threading code
> and uncomment the line below "#WORKS", the button text
> updates fine. But in the thread it breaks...
>
> I feel like I'm being stupid here, so ANY suggestions are
> much appreciated.
>
> Thanks all.
> Ben Floyd
> even at pondie.com
>
>
> #############CUT#############
> from qt import *
> import sys
> import threading
>
> class Form1(QMainWindow):
>     def __init__(self,parent = None,name = None,fl = 0):
>         QMainWindow.__init__(self,parent,name,fl)
>         self.setCentralWidget(QWidget(self,"qt_central_widget"))
>         self.pushButton1 = QPushButton(self.centralWidget(),"pushButton1")
>         self.pushButton1.setText("Break Me")
>         self.connect(self.pushButton1,SIGNAL("clicked()"),self.doSomething)
>
>     def doSomething(self):
>         a = DoStuff()
>         a.go(self.pushButton1)
>
> class DoStuff:
>     def go(self, pushbutton_obj):
>         def runThread():
>             #DOESNT WORK
>             pushbutton_obj.setText("Updated")
>
>         go = threading.Thread(target=runThread)
>         go.start()
>
>         #WORKS
>         #pushbutton_obj.setText("Updated")
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     app = QApplication(sys.argv)
>     f = Form1()
>     f.show()
>     app.setMainWidget(f)
>     app.exec_loop()
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>




From schwerdy at web.de  Wed Nov 10 06:44:22 2004
From: schwerdy at web.de (schwerdy)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 03:44:22 -0800
Subject: File Unlocking in __del__ does not work
Message-ID: <c498bc9a.0411100344.34703bfa@posting.google.com>

Hello developers!

I'm using Python 2.3.4 under debian Sarge and want to write a small
logger class. My source code reads:

#***************************************************
import sys, time
from fcntl import *
class Log(object):
    """
    Very Simple Logger Class
    """
    def __init__(self, path):
        self.logfile = open(path, 'a')
        flock(self.logfile, LOCK_EX | LOCK_NB) # throw exept. if file
locked

    def write(self, msg):
        self.logfile.write(time.strftime('%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S : ') +
str(msg) + '\n')
        self.logfile.flush()

    def __del__(self):
        flock(self.logfile, LOCK_UN)
        self.logfile.close()


l = Log('/var/log/myagi.log')
log = l.write

log("bla")
#***************************************************

When I run the script, python says "Exception exceptions.TypeError:
"'NoneType' object is not callable" in <bound method Log.__del__ of
<__main__.Log object at 0x401e238c>> ignored"
It seems, as in the __del__ method, the flock function has gone (a
debug line as "print flock" in the __del__ method prints "None").

does anybody know what is going on?

best regards,
Sebastian 'Schwerdy' Schwerdhoefer


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Mon Nov 22 03:06:34 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 08:06:34 GMT
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<slrncpgm80.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6381.1100534178.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpjcga.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6465.1100663898.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpmejc.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6506.1100723876.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncponhe.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6576.1100832119.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncprdqi.piq.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6664.1101016939.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncq37ga.61m.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-11-21, Tim Peters schreef <tim.peters at gmail.com>:
> [Antoon Pardon]
>> I'm talking about PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc only as a throw in
>> response to your previous remark. The main subject is signals.
>
> OK.
> ...
>
>> Well wether the work is done or not hardly seems to matter. The
>> documentation as worded now seems to make it clear, this isn't
>> going get into the language.
>
> But you're still talking about PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc here, right?

Yes.
>
> Explained last time that it can't possibly "get into the language" in
> the state it's in now.

And my response to that is that the documentation suggests that
that is not the main reason why it is not in the langauage.

> The people who orginally did the work got
> everything they wanted at the time:  the C API function, and the
> then-new thread.interrupt_main() function in Python.  They didn't ask
> for more than that, and they didn't work on more than that.
>
> Doing more work is a necessary prerequisite if people want more than
> that in the language.  Making the case that it should be in the
> language is part of that work, but, if you haven't noticed, PEPs that
> have working implementations fare much better than PEPs that don't. 
> Indeed, no PEP without an implementation has ever been released
><wink>.

Look the documentation states this:

  To prevent naive misuse, you must write your own C extension to call
  this


IMO this says the reason for not having it in the language has
nothing to do with lack of implementation. In this case it seems
lack of implementation is the consequence of Guido and others
finding it to be too dangerous too be in the language. Not that
a lack of implementation is the reason it didn't make the language
yet.

> ...
>
>> As I understand the doc, one doesn't plan to begin working on a
>> Python-level feature and even if someone else implements it, it
>> has no chance of getting in the language.
>
> Sorry, couldn't make sense of that sentence.

That raising an exception from one thread in an other thread doesn't
made the language is a so by design not by lack of implementation.
As the documentation is now worded it suggest very strongly that if
someone does implement it tomorrow it will simply rejected because
they want to prevent naive missuse.

>> As I read the docs it is not so much a question of the feature not
>> being ready for the langauge, but a question of Guido not wanting the
>> feature to be in the language.
>
> You're still talking about PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc?

Yes.

> I haven't asked
> Guido about it, and I can't find any design discussion of that
> function anywhere.


Wel that sentence came in the documentation, I don't know, but
something like: "To prevent ..." does sound like a design decision
to me.

> I think it got added during a European sprint.  If
> you want to know what he thinks, ask him.  If you want a definitive
> ruling, write a PEP.

That seems a bit idiot to me. The information seems to be available
in the documentation. So why should I ask?

>> This just to show that having someone implement it, is not
>> the biggest hurdle as your prevous remark seemed to suggest
>> to me.
>
> An implementation is prerequisite to release, but isn't necessarily
> sufficient.  I explained in detail last time why the current C code
> has no claim to being "an implementation" of a *Python*-level spelling
> of this functionality, so neither a suitable implementation nor the
> necessary design discusiion have been done in this case.
>
> If this is something you want, but you also want guaranteed acceptance
> in advance of doing more than writing about it, that won't work.  If
> you ask Guido, and he can make time to answer, you may get guaranteed
> rejection in advance -- or you may not.  A PEP would be a good thing
> to have in *either* case.

I don't want guaranteed acceptance in advance. But if I have the
impression that there is rejection in advance then there seems to
be no point in starting. The documentation as worded now seems to
imply such a rejection in advance.

So for the sake of argument even if I wanted this, I would be reluctant
to spend time in it, because I only have limited amounts of it and
this battle seems to be lost from the beginning. I would think my
time would be better spend fighting other battles.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From jerry at jerrysievers.com  Mon Nov 29 16:45:52 2004
From: jerry at jerrysievers.com (Jerry Sievers)
Date: 29 Nov 2004 16:45:52 -0500
Subject: slicing, mapping types, ellipsis etc.
References: <m34qj8e5yd.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
	<opsh9fobad1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
Message-ID: <m3y8gkcorz.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>

"Caleb Hattingh" <caleb1 at telkomsa.net> writes:

> I'm going to assume the following is self-explanatory - type the commands  
> in yourself.

[snip]

Yes, it certainly is self-explanatory.  And, I appreciate your
response.

However, my question pertains to advanced use of the slicing features
which I have found to be not totally explained in the docs.

The use of [start:stop:step] on sequence types is NOT unclear to me at
all.

I'd like to know;

1. what the Ellipsis object or ... syntax is used for
2. what a slice [..., j:k:l] does
3. how slices are applied to object of mapping types

Thank you

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Sievers   305 854-3001 (home)     WWW ECommerce Consultant
                305 321-1144 (mobile	http://www.JerrySievers.com/

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Sievers   305 854-3001 (home)     WWW ECommerce Consultant
                305 321-1144 (mobile	http://www.JerrySievers.com/


From w0jrs at firepole.com  Mon Nov 29 12:58:56 2004
From: w0jrs at firepole.com (Jamie Saker)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 11:58:56 -0600
Subject: Python-list Digest, Vol 14, Issue 377
In-Reply-To: <20041129230428.3CBC71E401C@bag.python.org>
References: <20041129230428.3CBC71E401C@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <200411291158.56931.w0jrs@firepole.com>

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:05:14 -0500, "Eric S. Johansson" <esj at harvee.org> 
wrote:
> If I could simply do: py-get twisted

or how about 'emerge twisted'

works fine for me! When twisted2 comes out, emerge world will catch it for me 
too. Check out Gentoo at http://www.gentoo.org for more info, or on IRC at 
#gentoo 

Jamie Saker
"Gentoo bumper sticker: I'd rather be compiling!"


From niels_bohr at uol.com.br  Sun Nov  7 03:04:22 2004
From: niels_bohr at uol.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio?= Mendes)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 06:04:22 -0200
Subject: PEP new assert idiom
In-Reply-To: <7xy8hep325.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr7n62t0v.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <Lmjjd.2124$Zl2.96@trndny01>
	<7xy8hep325.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1099814662.15924.2.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Em S?b, 2004-11-06 ?s 22:48 -0800, Paul Rubin escreveu:
> "Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> writes:
> > Why do you need a statement for this?
> > IMO, a plain function will do the trick:
> 
> I do write such functions sometimes, but using a statement is more
> natural.  That's why the assert statement exists, for example.
> 
> Because of that naturalness, the temptation to misuse the assert
> statement is very great, and I find myself doing it all the time
> thinking I'll clean it up later.  So I think having a statement for
> runtime checking would be in the correct spirit.

If it wasn't that we should be programming in assembly as it's faster :)
AFAIK all real world programming languages are turing equivalent, so
sugar is what differentiates on of the other. I'd love to see that sugar
in Python since defining assert functions is distracting.

Fabio


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Nov 16 10:58:26 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:58:26 -0600
Subject: using python with -c (as a inline execution in shell)
In-Reply-To: <a2972632.0411160744.d05557c@posting.google.com>
References: <a2972632.0411160744.d05557c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16794.9122.322020.966021@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    les> python -c "from sys import stdin; for x in stdin: print x"

    les> gives a syntax error.

    les> Anyone one know how to do this?

How about:

    % python -c 'from sys import stdin
    > for x in stdin:
    >   print x
    > '
    hi there
    bye
    hi there

    bye

Skip


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Nov  5 13:23:20 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 19:23:20 +0100
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmgcp1$hpk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncong4u.1tk.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <cmggel$t2o$01$1@news.t-online.com>

> let's assume we have a well-populatyed symbol table in the lib
> (which is usually the case, or, at least, not too hard a restriction).

So what? The names are mangled - and each one according to its compilers own
rules. Even if symbols themselves are defined: there is no data type
structure layout for structs and classes themselves stored in the symbol
table.

> that's not quite true.
> actually, each platform (wintel, linux, ...) has a pretty well-defined
> object file format (ELF under unix/linux, for instance).

I did not talk about binary executable formats, but the memory layout of C++
objects. The c++ standard doesn't define where e.g. the vtable of an
objects virtual method resides - or even if virtual methods have to be
implemented by a vtable at first place.

A c++ object created by g++ is total garbage passed to a VC lib that appears
to 

> current icc/linux and gcc/g++ work pretty well together in most cases, and
> icc/windows and cl, too.

No, they don't  - not for C++ code. Google for name mangling and the reasons
why every compiler uses its own scheme. Intel claims that there is binary
compatibility between them compiler and gcc, but thats only true for
certain compiler versions - which usage you have no control of in your
planned scenario.

I suggest you first delve somewhat more on the subject of c++ code
generation and difficulties observed by those trying to develop libraries
for c++ (libs that are shipped to customer/users not for their own projects
of course). Thats one major reason why there are only few c++ libs out
there - the pains e.g. trolltech has to go through to not break binary
compatibility between different versions can be observed here:

http://developer.kde.org/documentation/library/kdeqt/kde3arch/devel-binarycompatibility.html


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 17 05:36:06 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:36:06 GMT
Subject: global event listeners
References: <mailman.6463.1100656114.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1100671734.647623.206540@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.6471.1100672744.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1100680355.351342.116920@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <419b2613.280118499@news.oz.net>

On 17 Nov 2004 00:32:35 -0800, "Hunter  Peress" <hunterp at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>Josiah Carlson wrote:
>> "Hunter  Peress" <hunterp at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > i suppose i could do this, and have an "if self.__name__ ==
>> > what_im_looking_for and type(self) == what_im_also_looking_for"
>> >
>> > next is how can i make every object in a given runtime inherit from
>> > this class
>
>>
>> class counter(object):
>>     counter = 0
>>     def __init__(self, value):
>>         self.__value = value
>>
>>     def get_v(self):
>>         return self.__value
>>     def set_v(self, val):
>>         self.__value = val
>>         counter.counter += 1
>>     value = property(get_v, set_v)
>>
>> >>> a = counter(1)
>> >>> b = counter(2)
>> >>> a.counter
>> 0
>> >>> b.counter
>> 0
>> >>> a.value = 0
>> >>> a.counter
>> 1
>> >>> b.counter
>> 1
>> >>>
>>
>>
>>  - Josiah
>
>Well yes, but im looking for a non-1:1 way of making every object be a
>child of this new class.  i would have to do an insane amount of
>regex.... ;-)
>

If you are willing to prefix your variables with a magic dotted prefix (can be one letter ;-)
then you could do something like:

 >>> class Magic(dict):
 ...     def __init__(self, ofinterest = ''):
 ...         dict.__init__(self, [(name,[]) for name in ofinterest.split()])
 ...     def __setattr__(self, name, value):
 ...         if name in self:
 ...             self[name].append(value)
 ...         object.__setattr__(self, name, value)
 ...
 >>> magic = Magic('a c x')
 >>> magic
 {'a': [], 'x': [], 'c': []}
 >>> vars(magic)
 {}
 >>> magic.b = 222
 >>> vars(magic)
 {'b': 222}
 >>> magic
 {'a': [], 'x': [], 'c': []}
 >>> magic.a = 111
 >>> vars(magic)
 {'a': 111, 'b': 222}
 >>> magic
 {'a': [111], 'x': [], 'c': []}
 >>> magic.a = 'after 111'
 >>> magic
 {'a': [111, 'after 111'], 'x': [], 'c': []}
 >>> vars(magic)
 {'a': 'after 111', 'b': 222}
 >>> magic.x = 'ex'
 >>> magic.y = 'wy'
 >>> vars(magic)
 {'a': 'after 111', 'x': 'ex', 'b': 222, 'y': 'wy'}
 >>> magic
 {'a': [111, 'after 111'], 'x': ['ex'], 'c': []}
 >>> for k,v in sorted(magic.items()): print '%5s assumed %s values: %s'%(k,len(v),v)
 ...
     a assumed 2 values: [111, 'after 111']
     c assumed 0 values: []
     x assumed 1 values: ['ex']

I don't know what you want to with this, so it's hard to tailor suggestions. You could
obviously do a version that treated all attribute assignments as "of interest", e.g.,

 >>> class Magic(dict):
 ...     def __setattr__(self, name, value):
 ...         self.setdefault(name, []).append(value)
 ...         object.__setattr__(self, name, value)
 ...
 >>> m = Magic()
 >>> m
 {}
 >>> vars(m)
 {}
 >>> m.x = 111
 >>> m.x = 222
 >>> m.y = 333
 >>> vars(m)
 {'y': 333, 'x': 222}
 >>> m
 {'y': [333], 'x': [111, 222]}
 >>> for k,v in sorted(m.items()): print '%5s assumed %s values: %s'%(k,len(v),v)
 ...
     x assumed 2 values: [111, 222]
     y assumed 1 values: [333]

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Fri Nov  5 10:15:10 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 07:15:10 -0800
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <60dfb6f6.0411050715.601f381f@posting.google.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Gabriel Zachmann writes:
> >
> > would sort of a summary of this thread be of any help?
> 
> Here's a first stab at one:
> 
> In summary, there are basically three interpretations of "weak-typing" discussed
> in this thread:
[snip]


It seems to me that "weak/strong" description of typing is too
overloaded to be very specific.  Everyone seems to mean something
different by "weak" typing.  Some mean the ability to reinterpret
bits.  Some mean ability to do a lot of implicit conversions.  Some
(not anyone here, of course) mean dynamic typing.  And I'm sure some
mean something else.

I recommend we stop using "weak/strong typing" as a technical term,
and leave it to be a meaningless buzzword for the ignorant peasantry.

Instead, we should define several other scales, with very specific
names.  I'll make some suggestions.  One thing to keep in mind is that
these are, in fact, spectra; many languages will not be one extreme or
the other.

Static/dynamic typing we already know about.

About the ability to reintepret bits: it seems that the essence of
this is that bits can be reinterpreted under different
_circumstances_.  So a good, specific  name for this distinction might
be "manifest/circumstantial typing".  The words are a bit long, yes,
but off-hand I can't think of any shorter words that are specific
enough.  Words like "loose", "flexible", etc. could mean a lot of
things, just as "weak" does.  "Circumstantial" is somewhat more
specific, but still could mean a few different things.  Maybe it
should just be "bit-reinterpretable"?  "Manifest" might not be a good
word, either, since it's kind of discrete in meaning.  Can something
be "less manifest"?  Suggestions welcome, of course.

About the cramming of many different representations into a single
type, abused to the extreme by Perl: we might call this "overloaded
typing".  Two things I don't like about it: first, it has a slightly
negative connotation (I'd prefer that terminology be neutral, which is
another reason I didn't like "strong/weak"), and second, it's not
clear what the opposite aspect should be called.  Perhaps we could
coin some terms such as  "polybasic/oligobasic/monobasic".  (I would
have suggested "polymorphic" but it was taken :).

About the implicit type conversions: this I find the hardest to name. 
The best I can come up with is "coercive/restrictive".  I think we
need a better suggestion.  I really think this label only make sense
for predefined operations, and maybe some functions.  If I write a
function "def a(b): b=int(b); ...", is that coercive in the same
spirit as "a" + 1 in Java?  I would say not.  In fact, I would say
this isn't even a property of the typing.  We should probably say that
a language is a "type-coercive language" rather than that it has
"coercive typing".  Actually, we should say it's something else, cause
I just don't like the term coercive.  Maybe "type-general" vs
"type-specific"?  Seems to vague.  "Type-tolerant" vs "type-picky"?  I
don't know.  Suggestions?

So, to summarize, I recommend we do away with "strong/weak."  We
replace it with four spectra, with some suggested names:

static/dynamic
manifest/circumstantial
monobasic/polybasic
coercive/restrictive*


-- 
CARL BANKS


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Thu Nov 25 08:05:39 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 14:05:39 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.23.07.09.08.229463@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<zn18e7pm.fsf@telus.net>
Message-ID: <wzr7mi9izg.fsf@ordesa.local>

>>>>> Lenard Lindstrom <len-1 at telus.net> (LL) wrote:


LL> I would hope that a rewrite of Claim-2 of the patent is required before
LL> the patent is accept (if it is not outright rejected). Claim-2 is too
LL> vague to be meaningful. Proper definitions of "BASIC" and "derived" are
LL> missing. I imaging the patent is intended to protect Visual Basic.NET
LL> rather than restrict unrelated languages like Delphi and Python
LL> anyways.

If it would be applied to Python there would be enough prior art anyway.
And they forgot to put the word 'invention' between quotes.
How stupid can they become?
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Nov  8 06:03:27 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 12:03:27 +0100
Subject: pep 8 converter?
In-Reply-To: <418F503F.9050409@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
References: <418F503F.9050409@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20041108110327.GA7585@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Mon, Nov 08, 2004 at 10:53:51AM +0000, Robin Becker wrote:
> Is there a tool that checks/imposes PEP 8 (ie the right core coding 
> style?). It seems that bugfix patches which miss on style are rejected out 
> of hand. [...]

I doubt that's the case. Care to provide an example?

-- Gerhard
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From reply at to-the-newsgroup.com  Mon Nov 22 11:42:17 2004
From: reply at to-the-newsgroup.com (Ben)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:42:17 -0700
Subject: Question about classes
References: <1101104418.G+/GLqdG7XJQNil1Jd3gOQ@teranews>
	<ZQfod.652838$8_6.157621@attbi_s04>
Message-ID: <1101141738.LDtCTAQKBaFZGDwtJwHeqQ@teranews>

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 06:39:53 +0000, Steven Bethard wrote:

> If instead, you intended to set an instance variable, you might write it 
> like:
> 
>  >>> class C(object):
> ...     def __init__(self, x):
> ...         if x != 0:
> ...         	self.x = x
> ...         else:
> ...         	self.x = 5
> ...         	
>  >>> c = C(0)
>  >>> c.x
> 5
>  >>> c = C(8)
>  >>> c.x
> 8

Steve,

That's exactly what I wanted. Thank you very much. I'll keep the class one
in mind too.

--Ben


--Ben



From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Nov 16 19:54:15 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:54:15 -0800
Subject: nonblocking read()
References: <cnbgd0$ls4$1@news.apple.com> <2vvjkoF2re95sU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <donn-35704A.16541516112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <2vvjkoF2re95sU1 at uni-berlin.de>,
 paul koelle <paul at subsignal.org> wrote:

> Peter Ammon wrote:
> 
> > Are there better approaches?  Thanks,
> 
> What is wrong with:
> 
> fp = open('foo', 'r')
> 
> while 1:
>    line = fp.readline()
>    if not line:
>      time.sleep(0.3)
>      continue
>    process(line)
> 
> ??

A couple of things are wrong with it.

The way I remember it, the question was about a
pipe, created by popen(), not open().

When fp.readline() returns '', that means that
the write end of the pipe has closed, and no
more data is forthcoming.  There's no use for
the sleep or continue above, you may simply
break from the loop at that point.

Once those issues are taken care of, of course
it's true, you can read lines from a pipe one by
one with readline().  However, the question didn't
mention lines, and instead asked about the read()
method, so you have to wonder if perhaps the data
in question is actually not line structured.  If
its structure is something other than lines (which
readline() supports), or fixed length blocks (which
read(n) supports), then I don't think you want to
use file object methods to read it.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Fri Nov  5 23:49:50 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 20:49:50 -0800
Subject: CGIs and file exclusion
References: <2uvedvF2g1pv3U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<6f402501.0411050228.aea8068@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0411052049.7df47379@posting.google.com>

fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord) wrote in message news:<6f402501.0411050228.aea8068 at posting.google.com>...
> A simple solution that doesn't scale well is to create a file when the
> access starts. You can check if the file exists and pause until the
> other process deletes it - with a timeout in case the file gets keft
> there due to an error.
> 
> Obviously not an industrial strength solution, but it does work...
> 
> import time
> import os
> 
> def sleep(thelockfile, sleepcycle=0.01, MAXCOUNT=200):
>     """Sleep until the lockfile has been removed or a certain number
> of cycles have gone.
>     Defaults to a max 2 second delay.
>     """
>     counter = 0
>     while os.path.exists(thelockfile):
>         time.sleep(sleepcycle)
>         counter += 1
>         if counter > MAXCOUNT: break
>         
> def createlock(thelockfile):
>     """Creates a lockfile from the path supplied."""
>     open(thelockfile, 'w').close()
>     
> def releaselock(thelockfile):
>     """Deletes the lockfile."""
>     if os.path.isfile(thelockfile):
>         os.remove(thelockfile)
> 
> The sleep function waits until the specified file dissapears - or it
> times out.

I tried essentially the same solution in my experiments, but I was
unhappy
with it: it seems to work 99% of times, but occasionally you get
strange
things (for instance once I got "File not found" when trying to remove
the lockfile, evidently it was already removed by another process;
other
times I got different strange errors). The issue is that it is very 
difficult to reproduce the problems, hence to fix them. Maybe
Diez B. Roggisch is right and a real database server is the simplest 
solution. However my first attempt with ZEO didn't worked either:

$ cat zeoclient.py
import ZODB, ZEO 
from ZEO.ClientStorage import ClientStorage

def openzeo(host, port):
    db = ZODB.DB(ClientStorage((host, port)))
    conn = db.open()
    return db, conn, conn.root()

def store():
    # I have a ZEO instance running on port 9999 
    print "Opening the db ..."
    db, conn, root = openzeo("localhost", 9999)
    print "Storing something ..."
    root["somekey"] = "somedata"
    get_transaction().commit()
    print "Closing the db ..."
    conn.close(); db.close()

if __name__ == "__main__":
    store()

$ echo Makefile
default:
	python zeoclient.py& 
	python zeoclient.py

$ make
python zeoclient.py&
python zeoclient.py
Opening the db ...
Opening the db ...

Storing something ...
Storing something ...
Closing the db ...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "zeoclient.py", line 20, in ?
    store()
  File "zeoclient.py", line 15, in store
    get_transaction().commit()
  File "/usr/share/partecs/zope/lib/python/ZODB/Transaction.py", line
247, in commit
~/pt/python/zopexplore $
~/pt/python/zopexplore $     vote(self)
  File "/usr/share/partecs/zope/lib/python/ZODB/Connection.py", line
699, in tpc_vote
    s = vote(transaction)
  File "/opt/zope/lib/python/ZEO/ClientStorage.py", line 841, in
tpc_vote
    return self._check_serials()
  File "/opt/zope/lib/python/ZEO/ClientStorage.py", line 825, in
_check_serials
    raise s
ZODB.POSException.ConflictError: database conflict error (oid
0000000000000000, serial was 035900d31b7fedaa, now 035900d2f6cd8799)

(it works with a single process instead).

Maybe I misunderstood how ZEO is intended to be used, as usual it is
difficult to found the relevant documentation :-( Maybe I should ask
on another list ...


  Michele Simionato


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Nov 19 15:08:00 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:08:00 -0800
Subject: Python switch for syntax checking
In-Reply-To: <obrnd.30846$jE2.25588@bignews4.bellsouth.net>
References: <obrnd.30846$jE2.25588@bignews4.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <419e6581$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Jeff Duffy wrote:
>  I've been wondering why python itself doesn't provide a switch to check 
> a file for valid syntax. I know that you can currently call
> python -c "import py_compile; py_compile.compile(r'MyApp.py')"
> ...
I suspect the reason is threefold.

First, "python MyApp.py" does a syntax check anyway.  If MyApp is
not a main program, all you get is the syntax check.  As for main
programs, larger applications are often split into smaller files.
I seldom have large main program files to check.

Second, lots of extreme programmer (XP) practitioners hang out here,
and even more who have adopted at leasrt some of the XP techniques.
Those people tend to run unit tests rather than syntax checks.

Third, pychecker provides better analysis if you want static analysis.

I pretty much try to go the unit test way myself.  While I would
suggest you try it out, the three reasons above are meant to explain
why nobody has put effort into a syntax check switch.

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org



From exarkun at divmod.com  Mon Nov  1 16:09:26 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 21:09:26 GMT
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
In-Reply-To: <4186990d.1364093693@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <20041101210926.9171.708427178.divmod.quotient.1494@ohm>

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 20:34:30 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
> [snip]
> 
> BTW, did you try the above?
> >From a post (with broken subject line ;-) of Steven Bethard's, it seems to work.
> I'll re-quote it here to give it context:
> ----
> >Bengt Richter <bokr <at> oz.net> writes:
> >> 
> >> Well, I don't have 2.4 yet, but what does it do?
> 
> >>>> [x for x in [0] for x in iter(lambda:x+1, 4)]
> >[1, 2, 3]
> >>>> list(x for x in [0] for x in iter(lambda:x+1, 4))
> >[1, 2, 3]
> 
> >Looks like it does just what you'd hope it would do.  =)
> 
> >Steve
> ----
> 

  I didn't try it, but that looks like what it should do, and I'll take Steve's word for it that that's what it does indeed do :)

  Jp


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Wed Nov  3 08:25:30 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 3 Nov 2004 13:25:30 GMT
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
References: <cthoeigtdun.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
Message-ID: <slrncohmqk.n07.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-11-02, Zunbeltz Izaola schreef <zunbeltz at wm.lc.ehu.es.XXX>:
>
> Hi,
>
> I've an wxPython windows that creates a thread. An object of this
> thread raised an exception and i want to cach it in the main thread,
> that of the windows (I want this becouse the first implementation
> doesn't use thread). I know that exception can not be pass between 
> thread.

Yes they can. Unfortunately in order to protect us from ourselves
the powers that be, decided to only allow this to people who know C
and have access to a C compilor.

from http://docs.python.org/api/threads.html:

  int PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc( long id, PyObject *exc)
      Asynchronously raise an exception in a thread. The id argument is
      the thread id of the target thread; exc is the exception object to
      be raised. This function does not steal any references to exc. To
      prevent naive misuse, you must write your own C extension to call
      this. Must be called with the GIL held. Returns the number of thread
      states modified; if it returns a number greater than one, you're in
      trouble, and you should call it again with exc set to NULL to revert
      the effect. This raises no exceptions. New in version 2.3. 


I find this most unfortunate, because in my view being naive is
not in opposition with easily knowing to write a C extention.
I also find it a bad idea to force people to know C for a feature
which has some perfect uses for people who don't know C and normally
have no need to know C.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From brian at sweetapp.com  Tue Nov  9 11:50:00 2004
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 17:50:00 +0100
Subject: Concise idiom to initialize dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <89D59C407D04D54AA82DC8BA312D430D10C61759@enyc11p32001.corpny.csfb.com>
References: <89D59C407D04D54AA82DC8BA312D430D10C61759@enyc11p32001.corpny.csfb.com>
Message-ID: <4190F538.7050603@sweetapp.com>

Frohnhofer, James wrote:
> My initial problem was to initialize a bunch of dictionaries at the start of a
> function.
> 
> I did not want to do
> def fn():
> 	a = {}
> 	b = {}
> 	c = {}
> 	. . .
> 	z = {}
> simply because it was ugly and wasted screen space.
> 
> First I tried:
> 
> 	for x in (a,b,c,d,e,f,g): x = {}
> 
> which didn't work (but frankly I didn't really expect it to.)
> Then I tried:
> 
> 	for x in ('a','b','c','d','e','f','g'): locals()[x]={}
> 
> which did what I wanted, in the interpreter.  When I put it inside a function,
> it doesn't seem to work.  If I print locals() from inside the function, I can
> see them, and they appear to be fine, but the first time I try to access one
> of them I get a "NameError: global name 'a' is not defined"
> 
> Now obviously I could easily avoid this problem by just initializing each
> dictionary, but is there something wrong about my understanding of locals,
> that my function isn't behaving the way I expect?

The locals dictionary should be considered read-only. Wouldn't having a 
list of dictionaries be a better strategy?

Cheers,
Brian


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Nov  7 20:00:18 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 19:00:18 -0600
Subject: Python OS
References: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmin1n$500$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.6003.1099752590.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmiorc$j4b$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.6021.1099783808.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmk7r1$4d0$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<mailman.6059.1099837930.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmldu9$a72$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.6080.1099848517.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmlr0j$m3p$00$1@news.t-online.com> <x78y9dquj3.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<cmm23s$7lg$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <x74qk1qhnh.fsf@guru.mired.org>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> writes:

>> OS's have been written for VMs (LISP and Forth) that didn't have the
>> notion of interrupt before they were built. For LISPMs, interrupt
>> handlers are LISP objects (*). Java may not be as powerful as LISP,
>> but I'm pretty sure you could turn interrupts into method invocations
>> without having to extend the VM.
> How so? An interrupt is a address the processor directly jumps to by
> adjusting its PC. The JVM doesn't even have the idea of function pointers.
> Invoking a (even static) method involves several lookups in dicts until the
> actual code  pointer is known - and that's byte code then, not machine
> code.

No, that's how most modern machines generate interrupts. That doesn't
mean the your JVM-based system would have to do it that way. An
interrupt could trigger a lookup in a privlieged dict to find a code
pointer.


> As your examples show, one can implement a VM ontop of a considederably thin
> layer of low level code and expose hooks that allow for system
> functionality to be developed in a high-level language running bytecode.
> Fine. Never doubted that. I've written myself C-wrappings that allowed
> python callables to be passed as callbacks to the C-lib - no black magic
> there. But that took some dozen lines of C-code, and time-critical
> interrupts won't work properly if you allow their code beeing implemented
> in a notably slower language.

If you followed the link in my last post, you saw a paper on one of
the early LISPMs, which put a virtual LISP machine in silicon. The
same could be done for JVM. However, the success of LISPMs and Forth
in silicon would contraindicate doing that.

   <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Nov  8 10:37:57 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 08 Nov 2004 16:37:57 +0100
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5998.1099742953.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncouqp0.mcv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <tyfsm7k2vxm.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Gabriel Zachmann <zach at cs.uni-bonn.de> writes:

> >  Looked at boost::python?
> 
> Thanks a lot!
> 
> That's a very neat tool (like everything from Boost ;-) ),
> and pretty close to what I was envisioning,
> except that one still has to sort of manually transform header files into
> BOOST_PYTHON_MODULE declarations ...

Then check out Pyste ... which should come with Boost itself.


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Nov 24 10:24:21 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 10:24:21 -0500
Subject: Is there a consensus on how to check a polymorphic instance?
In-Reply-To: <1101268711.261729.54980@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<KrKdnXvgGaP_Jz_cRVn-pg@rogers.com>
	<1101189570.958016.283130@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<-sSdnZs3heYawz7cRVn-iA@rogers.com>
	<1101268711.261729.54980@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <co2923$qs6$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Mike Meng wrote:
> It seems to me the virtue of dynamic langauge is, if it looks like a
> cat, it's a cat.  

I think this is more accurately expressed as "if it *acts* like
a cat, then you can treat it like a cat".  Your version implies
that you really do care what it _is_, which goes back to the
static typing thinking again.

 > But the problem is still there: how do you know what
> it looks like before you treat it as a cat? isinstance(), , as Steve
> state, is too rigid.

The argument is that you probably don't really need to know
what it looks like *before* you try to use it, even if you
think you do.  The cases where you really do are probably those
Alex Martelli's recipe (mentioned near the start of the thread)
is intended to help.  (Specifically, avoiding the situation
where the object implements the required protocol only partially,
but you don't find that out until you've already started using
the object, possibly corrupting it in the process.)

-Peter


From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Wed Nov 24 03:48:58 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 08:48:58 GMT
Subject: teaching OO
Message-ID: <slrncq8inq.9gv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>

This post is not strictly Python-specific, still
I would like to learn other university teachers' opinion.

Currently, I'm teaching "introduction to OO programming" at the undergrad
level. My syllabus this semester consists of a bit of Python (as an example
of a scripting language) and C++ (as an example of a compiled language).
With C++, I go all the way up to meta-programming.

My question now is: do you think I should switch over to Python completely
(next time), and dump all the interesting issues involved in C++'s virtual
classes, overloading, and templates? (In Python, all of that would just
disappear ... ;-) )

(The opinion of the people on this NG might well be a little bit biased
towards Python, but that's ok ;-).)

Interested in all kinds of thoughts.

Best regards,
Gabriel.

-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| There are works which wait,                                             |
| and which one does not understand for a long time; [...]                |
| for the question often arrives a terribly long time after the answer.   |
|                                                         (Oscar Wilde)   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Thu Nov 11 14:50:36 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:50:36 -0500
Subject: crc32 to be used as hash
In-Reply-To: <slrncp7e3j.bdf.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
References: <slrncp7e3j.bdf.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <1f7befae041111115041e7423e@mail.gmail.com>

[Weiguang Shi]
> I'm thinking of using binascii.crc32 as a hash-function when I read in
> the reference
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-binascii.html:
>
>   crc32(       data[, crc])
> 
>      Compute CRC-32, the 32-bit checksum of data, starting with an
>      initial crc. This is consistent with the ZIP file checksum.
>      Since the algorithm is designed for use as a checksum algorithm,
>      it is not suitable for use as a general hash algorithm.
>
> CRC32 has been shown in the (Internetworking) literature that it can
> be used as a good hash function. I'm wondering what's the concern
> here.

Sorry, I've no idea what "(Internetworking) literature" means.

PythonLabs ran large-scale statistical tests of string hashing
algorithms in 2000, using millions of strings taken from a large email
corpus.  binascii.crc32 delivered collision rates hundreds of standard
deviations worse than a "truly random" 32-bit hash would have
delivered.  That's the concern.

In the same tests, Python's builtin hash() was statistically
indistinguishable from a random 32-bit hash function wrt # of
collisions.

BTW, it's possible to design CRC polynomials with better hash
statistics, but that's not what binascii.crc32 was designed for.  Like
most CRC polynomials in wide use, it was designed to catch common
forms of data corruption (single-bit errors, bursts of 0 or 1 bits at
either end, stuff like that).


From james.frohnhofer at csfb.com  Tue Nov  9 11:40:48 2004
From: james.frohnhofer at csfb.com (Frohnhofer, James)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 16:40:48 -0000
Subject: Concise idiom to initialize dictionaries
Message-ID: <89D59C407D04D54AA82DC8BA312D430D10C61759@enyc11p32001.corpny.csfb.com>

My initial problem was to initialize a bunch of dictionaries at the start of a
function.

I did not want to do
def fn():
	a = {}
	b = {}
	c = {}
	. . .
	z = {}
simply because it was ugly and wasted screen space.

First I tried:

	for x in (a,b,c,d,e,f,g): x = {}

which didn't work (but frankly I didn't really expect it to.)
Then I tried:

	for x in ('a','b','c','d','e','f','g'): locals()[x]={}

which did what I wanted, in the interpreter.  When I put it inside a function,
it doesn't seem to work.  If I print locals() from inside the function, I can
see them, and they appear to be fine, but the first time I try to access one
of them I get a "NameError: global name 'a' is not defined"

Now obviously I could easily avoid this problem by just initializing each
dictionary, but is there something wrong about my understanding of locals,
that my function isn't behaving the way I expect?



> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-bounces+james.frohnhofer=csfb.com at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-bounces+james.frohnhofer=csfb.com at python.org]On
> Behalf Of Dennis Lee Bieber
> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 10:31 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: Determining combination of bits
> 
> 
> On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 21:18:36 -0800, "news.west.cox.net"
> <sean.berry2 at cox.net> declaimed the following in comp.lang.python:
> 
> > > Note: 2^1 = 2, so your dictionary is already in error...
> > >
> > 
> > The dictionary was filled with arbitrary values, not
> > { x : 2^x } values like you might have thought.
> 
> 	Well, you had stated "powers of two"... If all you wanted is a
> bit mapping you could probably drop the dictionary and just use a list
> of the values, indexed by the bit position, and my first attempt
> logic...
> 
> > 
> > It is actually more like {1:123, 2:664, 4:323, 8:990, 16:221... etc}
> > 
> > 
> 
> CheckBoxes = [ "FirstChoice",
>                "SecondChoice",
>                "ThirdChoice",
>                "FourthChoice",
>                "FifthChoice",
>                "SixthChoice" ]
> 
> 
> for num in [22, 25, 9]:
>     bit = 0
>     while num:
>         if num & 1:
>             print CheckBoxes[bit],
>         bit = bit + 1
>         num = num >> 1
>     print
> 
> SecondChoice ThirdChoice FifthChoice
> FirstChoice FourthChoice FifthChoice
> FirstChoice FourthChoice
> 
> where "num" is the sum of the checkbox index values (or whatever
> selection mechanism is used), assuming /they/ were set up in 2^(n+1)
> scheme (n = bit position, starting with 0)...
> 
> -- 
>  > ============================================================== <
>  >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
>  >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
>  > ============================================================== <
>  >           Home Page: <http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/>            <
>  >        Overflow Page: <http://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/>        <
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 

==============================================================================
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From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 20:23:02 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 23:23:02 -0200
Subject: Named tuples
In-Reply-To: <10pntj5m0spvl3f@corp.supernews.com>
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.6511.1100727971.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnf6b7.nnqkns1c991f3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6520.1100738474.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10pntj5m0spvl3f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041117172312f11d24@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:13:45 -0800, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> 
> >4. Named attribute access is supported by __getattr__. Names are
> >looked up on the magic __names__ attribute of the tuple.
> >
> >5. On slicing, a named tuple should return another named tuple. This
> >means that the __names__ tuple has to be sliced also.
> >
> >
> 
> Hm.  If __names__ is a tuple, then does that tuple have a __names__
> attribute as well?
> 
> (In practice, I can't imagine any reason why tuple.__names__.__names__
> should ever be anything other than None, but the potential recursiveness
> makes me nervous...)

Humm. The worst case is if it's done in a circular fashion, as in:

mytuple.__names__ = nametuple
nametuple.__names__ = mytuple

That's weird. The best that I can imagine now is that it would be
illegal to assign a named tuple to the __names__ member of another
tuple.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Wed Nov 24 04:18:37 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 09:18:37 GMT
Subject: HTML stylesheet expander?
References: <8idd72-j1o.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <Xns95AB5E981A615duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Roger Binns wrote:

> Does anyone have any code or pointers to something
> that can take some HTML with CSS style information
> and expand it into HTML that works pre-CSS.
> 

It can't be done in general since CSS has far more control over the styling 
than HTML ever gave you. However, if you are willing to restrict yourself 
to simple cases I would suggest you might be best loading the HTML into a 
browser and manipulating it there to find out what styles everything has. 

If you are using Windows then there is no problem: just drive IE remotely 
through COM and use Python to iterate over the document and pick out the 
runtime style attributes that you are interested in.

If you are not using Windows, or you want portability, then you are 
probably best doing this in Javascript.



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Nov  2 21:36:46 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 20:36:46 -0600
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>	<10of7jtm07h7f77@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.5838.1099425921.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<g8ydnYY52sUUdBrcRVn-jQ@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <10ogh1upnubd1b0@news.supernews.com>


"Istvan Albert" <ialbert at mailblocks.com> wrote in message 
news:g8ydnYY52sUUdBrcRVn-jQ at giganews.com...
> John Hazen wrote:
>
>> Ummm...  Care to let us in on it?
>
> typo, he probably meant
>
> "I can't think of a ..."

You may think you're funny.
You're not.

John Roth 



From davidf at sjsoft.com  Thu Nov 11 15:48:19 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:48:19 +0200
Subject: I don't quite get this "string".find()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6274.1100201807.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6274.1100201807.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cn0j6k$p99$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Jaime Wyant wrote:
> Will someone explain this to me?
> 
> 
>>>>"test".find("")
> 
> 0
> 
> Why is the empty string found at position 0?
> 

It's found there because it is there!

At any position, you can find an empty string because it is so short...

David


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Nov 12 12:52:04 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:52:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Strong types (.NET) versus weak types (Python)
References: <ec6dce8b.0411120939.47dd1a1b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041112T184329-382@post.gmane.org>

j_mckitrick <j_mckitrick <at> bigfoot.com> writes:
> 
> I recently took a one week course on .NET, and they emphasized over
> and over again that the key is types.  Everything is strongly typed
> and enforced.
> 
> Python is the exact opposite.

Python is strongly typed by most normal definitions of "strongly typed" (though
see http://www.python.org/moin/StrongVsWeakTyping for arguments about exactly
what strong/weak typing means).  I believe what you mean to say is that .NET is
statically typed, in which case it's true that Python is the opposite --
dynamically typed.

It's claimed by some that Python 3000 will have optional static type
declarations, though only time will tell...  It's far from trivial in a language
like Python that allows you to do things like change an object's class at
runtime.

> I prefer Python, but is .NET likely to change this view of types?

No.  Static vs. dynamic typing is a major language decision and is usually hard
to change, at least in any meaningful way.  .NET could go to dynamic typing, but
you would lose all the compile-time checking for very little gain -- AFAIK it
doesn't provide any way to do the things that make dynamic typing most useful,
like adding methods to an object, changing the class of an object, etc. at
runtime.

Steve



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Nov  3 10:20:28 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 10:20:28 -0500
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
In-Reply-To: <TbadndhdMqHzaRXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
References: <cthoeigtdun.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
	<slrncohmqk.n07.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<TfOdna4IePwZexXcRVn-pA@powergate.ca>
	<TbadndhdMqHzaRXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <TbadndtdMqGHaBXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>

Peter Hansen wrote:
>  >>> asyncexc = ctypes.pythonapi.PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc
>  >>> exc = ctypes.py_object(ValueError)
>  >>> asyncexc(t.id, exc)
> 1
>  >>> t
> <T(Thread-2, started)>
> 
> Hmm... clearly that's not enough, but perhaps closer.

But shortly after, trying to create a new thread, I got:

 >>> t3 = T()
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 2, in __init__
   File "c:\a\python23\lib\threading.py", line 384, in __init__
     self.__block = Condition(Lock())
   File "c:\a\python23\lib\threading.py", line 148, in Condition
     return _Condition(*args, **kwargs)
   File "c:\a\python23\lib\threading.py", line 154, in __init__
     if lock is None:
ValueError
 >>> t3 = T()
 >>> t3
<T(Thread-4, started)>
 >>> t3.id
5740
 >>> t
<T(Thread-2, started)>


So the exception managed to get to the new thread, even though
I called SetAsyncExc *before* the thread was even created.

Now _that's_ what I call "asynchronous". ;-)

-Peter


From JFeghhi at visa.com  Thu Nov  4 15:59:03 2004
From: JFeghhi at visa.com (Feghhi, Jalil)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:59:03 -0800
Subject: Storing objects in dictionary
Message-ID: <8C53AAFA2050EE40BDCDB9455DA7D6340C6267@sw720ex020.visa.com>


I am actually trying to store a FieldStorage object (which contains values of a post) into the session for later use. Something like session['data'] = data. I don't have the error message right now but something like "object cannot be set". 

-Jalil

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+jfeghhi=visa.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+jfeghhi=visa.com at python.org]On Behalf Of
Jeremy Jones
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 12:09 PM
To: Feghhi, Jalil
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Storing objects in dictionary


Feghhi, Jalil wrote:

>I get an error storing an object in a dictionary. The dictionary and the object are both provided by mod_python. One is the session object (which is just a dictionary) and one is a FieldStorage object (I think it is a class but displays as a dictionary). My question is what is the requirement for an object to be able to store it in a dictionary? I am sure there is documentaion somewehre but I couldn't find it.
>
>Regards,
>
>-Jalil
>  
>
Are you trying to use the session object as a key in the dictionary or a 
value of a key?  What error are you getting?  You should be able to put 
anything into a dictionary (AFAIK) as a key, but only hashable objects 
can be put in as keys.


Jeremy Jones
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Sat Nov  6 17:10:11 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 23:10:11 +0100
Subject: supressing '\n' at the end
In-Reply-To: <337e6cd5.0411061352.62fe8bfc@posting.google.com>
References: <337e6cd5.0411061352.62fe8bfc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <418d4bc3$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

SunX wrote:
> Gurus;
> I need some help here.  How do you supress the newline char. at the
> end of a file.write(str(aString))?  I know you can add a newline by
> simply doing file.write(str(aString) + '\n'), but not
> file.write(str(aString) - '\n').

Where does the \n come from? I presume the 'aString' object contains
it. Then you can do:

file.write(aString[:-1])

(but only if aString always contains a '\n' at the end, ofcourse)

--Irmen


From danperl at rogers.com  Thu Nov 25 15:28:05 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 15:28:05 -0500
Subject: dictionary initialization
References: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <lIydnVF-WvXK3TvcRVn-jA@rogers.com>

I don't know awk, so I don't know how your awk statement works.

Even when it comes to the python statements, I'm not sure exactly what the 
intentions of design intention were in this case, but I can see at least one 
justification.  Python being dynamically typed, b[1] can be of any type, so 
you have to initialize b[1] to give it a type and only then adding something 
to it makes sense.  Otherwise, the 'add' operation not being implemented for 
all types, 'b[1]+1' may not even be allowed.

You're saying that in awk a['hello'] is initialized to 0.  That would not be 
justified in python.  The type of b[1] is undetermined until initialization 
and I don't see why it should be an int by default.

Dan

"Weiguang Shi" <wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca> wrote in message 
news:slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca...
> Hi,
>
> With awk, I can do something like
>    $ echo 'hello' |awk '{a[$1]++}END{for(i in a)print i, a[i]}'
>
> That is, a['hello'] was not there but allocated and initialized to
> zero upon reference.
>
> With Python, I got
>    >>> b={}
>    >>> b[1] = b[1] +1
>    Traceback (most recent call last):
>      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>    KeyError: 1
>
> That is, I have to initialize b[1] explicitly in the first place.
>
> Personally, I think
>
>    a[i]++
>
> in awk is much more elegant than
>
>    if i in a: a[i] += 1
>    else: a[i] = 1
>
> I wonder how the latter is justified in Python.
>
> Thanks,
> Weiguang 




From mfuhr at fuhr.org  Sat Nov  6 23:26:08 2004
From: mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr)
Date: 6 Nov 2004 21:26:08 -0700
Subject: checking a thread has started
References: <mailman.6001.1099749512.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<qliv52-mlq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<418d3323$1_2@omega.dimensional.com>
	<mailman.6030.1099794009.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418da3e0$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>

Deepak Sarda <deepak.sarda at gmail.com> writes:

> The server is on Redhat with a custom 2.4.20 kernel. The script is not
> running through mod_python - just a regular #!/usr/bin/python2.2

The shebang line doesn't control how the web server starts the
script, so that doesn't tell us anything.  Does the web server have
mod_python installed at all?  If so then it's possible that all
files ending in .py or all files in a certain directory are run
under mod_python.

You can examine os.environ['GATEWAY_INTERFACE'] to see how your
script is run: the value should be "CGI/1.1" if you're running
via CGI and "Python-CGI/1.1" if you're under mod_python.  This
environment variable probably won't be set if you run the script
from the command line, so use has_key() or trap KeyError to avoid
exceptions.

It may or may not matter whether you're running under mod_python,
but let's find out for sure anyway.  Then we can better understand
the extent of relationship between your script and Apache.

> I see what you mean and it's true that the script actually runs as a
> local user.

What do you mean "runs as a local user"?  CGI programs usually run
as whatever user the web server runs as, although it's possible to
have them run as the script's owner (e.g., by setting up suEXEC).

> But there is certainly a relation between the server and
> the threads because in httpd.conf - there's a directive which says:
>
> StartServers 8
>
> which means there are 8 idle server instances running at any given
> time.

That's not what StartServers means according to the Apache
documentation:

http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/core.html#startservers

"The StartServers directive sets the number of child server processes
created on startup.  As the number of processes is dynamically
controlled depending on the load, there is usually little reason
to adjust this parameter."

> Now I assume  my main script call take up one instance. Then
> when new threads are requested - each thread takes up an instance so
> we have 7 new threads. Which is exactly what happens!

That doesn't make sense given the description of StartServers.
Besides, as I recall, Apache 1.3.27, which you said you were using,
doesn't even use threads -- each instance of the web server is run
in a separate process.  Have you tested your hypothesis by altering
the value of StartServers and checking whether your script behaves
differently?

StartServers is 5 on one of my machines, yet I just ran a few
tests and successfully created 1000 threads under both CGI
and mod_python.

> The program _always_ successfully creates and completes  execution of
> exactly seven new threads leaving the remaining eight requested
> threads in no man's land!

How are you determining which threads are starting and which aren't?

> So there must be some relation between apache and the script. Also, as
> I said earlier, when run through a shell as the same user - the script
> works perfectly fine.

Something's going on but we lack sufficent evidence to say what.
We haven't seen your code yet -- could you post the smallest possible
script that demonstrates the problem?

-- 
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/


From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Mon Nov 22 08:19:54 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:19:54 +0100
Subject: [Beginner] delete items of [] also from memory
In-Reply-To: <cnsgm1$u3f$01$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <cns50t$5ip$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<41a1a1da$0$8190$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<cnsgm1$u3f$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <41a1e5b9$0$9075$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Birgit Rahm wrote:
>> But...  And if you try ?
>>
> 
> I tryed A = [].
> And  I think thats why my RAM is filling up. But I dont know if this is the
> problem. So I asked.
> Is del A[0:] the better or an equal solution?
> Birgit

Not exactly equal, but it depends on the context. Consider:

a = [None] * 10000
b = a
a = []

The first line creates a 10000 element list and adds a reference to it ("a"); 
the second adds a new reference to the list ("b"); the third removes a reference 
from the list and makes it point to a new empty list. So the 10000 element list 
still has a reference ("b"), and is not deleted from memory, since it can still 
be accessed via the variable b.

OTOH, consider this:

a = [None] * 10000
b = a
del a[:]

The two first lines are the same, but the third one does not just delete a 
reference to the 10000 element list; it actually deletes all elements from the 
list itself. So now, a *and* b point on the empty list, and the memory used by 
the original list is given back to the system (or should be... see further)

What makes you think the memory is not given back to the system? Does the memory 
occupied by your script increase and increase, or do you just see the memory 
occupied by your script remain constant when you do the del a[:]? In the latter 
case, it may be perfectly normal: it is quite frequent that the memory freed by 
an operation is not returned immediatly to the system, but kept for future use 
by the program.

BTW, I tried the following script, watching the memory consumption at each line:

 >>> a = [None] * 10000
 >>> a = []
 >>> b = [None] * 10000
 >>> b = []
 >>> c = [None] * 10000
 >>> c = []
 >>> d = [None] * 100000

The first line actually increase the memory allocated for the Python 
interpreter; the second one doesn't decrease it, but the third one does not 
increase it, because the memory occupied by the first 10000 element list was 
re-used for the second one. Same thing for the third 10000 element list (the one 
put in c). The last line *did* increase the consumed memory, because more space 
was needed for the 100000 element list.

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Nov 10 14:57:41 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:57:41 -0600
Subject: [development doc updates]
In-Reply-To: <20041110154700.5763718E89A@grendel.fdrake.net>
References: <20041110154700.5763718E89A@grendel.fdrake.net>
Message-ID: <16786.29365.808646.948039@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Fred> Lots of changes to how tables are actually formatted, with much of
    Fred> the styling moved from the HTML to the CSS stylesheet.

    Fred> Tables also look nicer in supporting browsers.

Any idea what browsers those would be?

    Fred> Please review the tables and report any strange presentations; be
    Fred> sure to include the specific browser (including platform and
    Fred> version!) in your report.

Using Firefox 1.0PR on a Solaris system I checked out

    http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/boolean.html

There are no left, right or top borders.  A PNG is at

    http://www.musi-cal.com/~skip/table.png

Skip


From dd55 at cornell.edu  Sat Nov 13 18:03:34 2004
From: dd55 at cornell.edu (Darren Dale)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 18:03:34 -0500
Subject: looking for a good introduction to OOP
Message-ID: <MPG.1c005cd4c4025381989685@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>

Hi,

I would like to learn more about object oriented concepts, like design 
and techniques. I have experience with Matlab and Python, a little with 
C#, and almost none with C++. Could I get suggestions for some good 
books? C++ is not an obstacle, but Python based examples would be 
easier.

Thanks,
Darren


From someone at somewhere.com  Tue Nov 16 21:35:24 2004
From: someone at somewhere.com (PyBo)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 02:35:24 GMT
Subject: Rounding curiosity
Message-ID: <MNymd.18645$zx1.13343@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>

What is wrong with this picture:

 >>> x = 500000000.0
 >>> y = x / (1024 * 1024)
 >>> y
476.837158203125
 >>> z = round(y, 2)
 >>> z
476.83999999999997

Obviously, '476.83999999999997' is not rounded to two
decimal places. Or am I doing something wrong?


From gergina at abv.bg  Sat Nov 27 16:36:26 2004
From: gergina at abv.bg (Nickolay)
Date: 27 Nov 2004 13:36:26 -0800
Subject: executable from python cod
References: <77969915.0411241036.553c3da3@posting.google.com>
	<co2p3s$inq$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<77969915.0411261142.1bcca34c@posting.google.com>
	<co9u3q$de4$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <77969915.0411271336.4783a876@posting.google.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" wrote in message
> When it works - sure, I bet a lot of people are interested.

Thanks for your opinion. I will continue work, but i have a "general
question"
- How name it? :)

"bearophile" wrote in message
> ... this is quite interesting. Can you tell us
> some more about it?
compiler is 32 bits,Intel family

> How we can find/try it?
In this momement only on my comuter ;)
But when i ready with first version, i'll put message to many palces

> How much language can it compile (can it use lists?)
assembler, and basic code other languages - i have problem with
classes

> Is the compiler written in Python (this probably makes it simpler to
> create)?

No but may be will be. I wish to create an absolute free compiler and
IDE with open source.

that's all


From pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com  Sun Nov 14 12:41:37 2004
From: pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com (Pekka Niiranen)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:41:37 +0200
Subject: using python on the command line with 'here-documents' and pipes
In-Reply-To: <slrncpf4ga.1u7.calmar@news.calmar.ws>
References: <slrncpf4ga.1u7.calmar@news.calmar.ws>
Message-ID: <419798D1.50104@wlanmail.com>

Hi,

This is from C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32\Demos\pipes\cat.py:

'''cat.py
a version of unix cat, tweaked to show off runproc.py
'''

import sys
data = sys.stdin.read(1)
sys.stdout.write(data)
sys.stdout.flush()
while data:
     data = sys.stdin.read(1)
     sys.stdout.write(data)
     sys.stdout.flush()
# Just here to have something to read from stderr.
sys.stderr.write("Blah...")

# end of cat.py

-pekka-

calmar wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I would like to use python for a replacement for some binutils. I would
> like to be able to pipe things into python. Actually I would not like
> writing a 'script' to handle the input, but write the python commands
> right onto the command line.
> 
> It would be possible to use here-documents (for having the correct
> identation during e.g while loops) for writing python code on
> the fly, but then how and where to get the pipe output:
> 
> echo -e 'line1\nline2' | python <<EOF  ....
> 
> Does not really work...
> 
> Would anybody have an idea how to use python like e.g. awk etc. As a
> tool within, where I can handle the stdin data, and write the code right
> there (e.g. with here documents)?
> 
> 
> thanks a lot
> calmar
> 


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov  2 13:55:34 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 18:55:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: function object and copies of variables
References: <20041102174025.GA26478@marge.cehill.co.uk>
Message-ID: <loom.20041102T192901-246@post.gmane.org>

 <stan <at> saticed.me.uk> writes:
> 
> can a function object store values so this 3 liner can print 0 1 instead
> of 1 1?
> 
> f = []
> for i in [0, 1]: f.append(lambda: i)
> for j in f: print j()

Just thought I might give a little extra commentary on why Diez B. Roggisch's
solution works.  First, I'm going to write it in a more readable (IMHO) form[1]:

>>> f = []
>>> for i in (0, 1):
... 	def func(i=i):
... 		return i
... 	f.append(func)
... 	
>>> for j in f:
... 	print j()
... 	
0
1

Now, the problem you're running into here is that def (and lambda) in Python
don't bind names in their body to values at the time at which the function is
defined.  If they did, the following would be invalid:

>>> def f():
... 	def g():
... 		print j
... 	j = 1
... 	g()
... 	
>>> f()
1

because the name 'j' is not bound to a value until after g is defined.  Instead,
what happens is that the g() function doesn't try to look up a value for j until
it reaches the statement 'print j'.  Since g() is called after the name 'j' is
bound to the value 1, when g() does finally look up a value for j, it is able to
find one in the f function's scope.

Back to your original question, what happens when you write:

>>> f = []
>>> for i in (0, 1):
... 	def func():
... 		return i
... 	f.append(func)
... 
>>> for j in f:
... 	print j()
... 
1
1

(or the equivalent) is that the only i available to func is the one from the for
loop, and this one has the value 1:

>>> for i in (0, 1):
... 	pass
... 
>>> i
1

So, when func() is called by calling j(), func looks for i, finds it in the
global scope, and uses that value, which is 1 both times that func() is called,
because it is called after the end of the first for loop.  Contrast this with:

>>> for i in (0, 1):
... 	def func():
... 		return i
... 	print func()
... 	
0
1

where the for-loop has not completed, and so i still has the value 0 the first
time func() is called.

Diez B. Roggisch's solution solves your problem by binding i to a value at the
time that func is defined, taking advantage of the fact that default argument
values are evaluated and bound at function definition time.

Hope this is helpful.

Steve

[1] If you're really looking for the fewer lines, try:

for j in [lambda i=i: i for i in (0, 1)]:
    print j()

Not only is it more readable (IMHO), it's also probably faster since list
comprehensions are almost always faster than a for-loop with an append.



From erwan.adam at cea.fr  Wed Nov 17 09:12:56 2004
From: erwan.adam at cea.fr (Erwan Adam)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:12:56 +0100
Subject: [PyQt] How to get the QRect of a QMenuBar (QPopupMenu) item ?
Message-ID: <cnfm98$lrs$1@ellebore.saclay.cea.fr>

Hi all,

I try to introduce tooltips in my application written
in PyQt (more precisly, in the menubar of my application)
but I can't find a way to get the QRect instance
associated to a QMenuBar item (neither a QPopupMenu item)

I need the QRect 'cause I followed the tooltip.py file
given with pyqt to do the job with a re-implementation
of "maybeTip( self, pos )".

May be it is not the good solution ...

Help is welcome !

Cheers,

                  E.A.




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Nov 18 09:28:56 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 08:28:56 -0600
Subject: os.system vs os.system inside thread -> why is there any
	difference?
In-Reply-To: <cngl20$6el$1@julia.coi.pw.edu.pl>
References: <cng2gp$mup$1@julia.coi.pw.edu.pl>
	<mailman.6504.1100719376.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cngl20$6el$1@julia.coi.pw.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <20041118142855.GD25465@unpythonic.net>

On Thu, Nov 18, 2004 at 12:00:06AM +0100, przemas_r at o2.pl wrote:
> Thanks for the answer.

You're welcome.  I'm sorry it didn't work out.

I wrote a pair of standalone programs (no need for arping) to check this
behavior.  The bad news is that my program failed on 2.2.2 and 2.3.2.
It only succeed on a CVS version of Python 2.4b2.

To run the test, "python prz.py".  It should print "0" twice, because
each time "alarmed.py" should exit from within the SIGALRM signal
handler.  On 2.2 and 2.3, it prints "0" (works in the main thread) then
"1" (doesn't work in another thread)

Jeff

Subprogram "alarmed.py":
#------------------------------------------------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/python
import signal, time, sys, os
signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, lambda *args: sys.exit(0))
os.kill(os.getpid(), signal.SIGALRM)
sys.exit(1)
#------------------------------------------------------------------------

Main program "prz.py":
#------------------------------------------------------------------------
import threading
import os
import signal

def system(s):
    p = os.fork()
    if p == 0:
        os.execvp("/bin/sh", ['sh', '-c', s])
        os._exit(99)
    else:
        p, status = os.waitpid(p, 0);
        return os.WEXITSTATUS(status)

class T(threading.Thread):
    def run(self):
        print system("python alarmed.py")

t = T()
t.run()

t = T()
t.start()
t.join()
#------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------- next part --------------
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From anthonybaxter at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 20:39:35 2004
From: anthonybaxter at gmail.com (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 12:39:35 +1100
Subject: asynchat and threading
In-Reply-To: <41a505c2$0$20660$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <Ij1pd.19554$ld2.4796764@twister.nyc.rr.com>
	<mailman.6755.1101310280.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4edc17eb.0411241036.72eed3ef@posting.google.com>
	<41a505c2$0$20660$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <e69d3ed2041124173965892985@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 23:05:56 +0100, Martin v. L?wis <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
> AFAICT, the main complaint is that it is tied to the TCP transport,
> the sockets API, and the select/poll API. IOW, it cannot easily:
> - integrate TLS on top of TCP (because TLS might involve no-data
>    communications, e.g. when TLS negotation happens in the middle
>    of a TLS session),
> - integrate other transports, such as serial ports on Windows,
> - integrate other multi-endpoint wait APIs, such as IO completion
>    ports on Windows NT+, or kqueue on BSD.

- work with other event loops, such as GUI toolkits

There's also the problem that asyncore is more or less orphaned - there's
no-one on the python development team who supports it fully. Bugs in
it tend to get treated poorly. 

I wrote the original transport layer for pythondirector with asyncore. Under
any sort of load, it just starts to lose, bigtime. Random errors,
sockets getting
lost, and the like. Switching to twisted made it go much, much faster. Well,
to be fair, when I first ported to twisted, there was a nasty performance 
problem - this was relatively easy to track down and fix, and it's been fixed
for a long time now. Trying to fix asyncore was a nightmare.

The other thing to recommend twisted over asyncore is that twisted provides
a fuller set of tools for programming in an async manner, such as Deferreds.
With asyncore, you're kinda left on your own to do all this yourself.

twisted is too large to go into the python core as is - in addition, there's a 
mismatch between Python's release cycle speed and twisted's release
cycle speed (although the current delayed-until-who-knows-when Twisted
2.0 might be a harbinger of twisted slowing down to Python's speed <wink>)
It's possible that in the future a small core of twisted could end up in the
stdlib - this topic's come up a couple of times on the twisted list (most 
recently, a couple of months ago).

I wonder if the asyncore docs couldn't grow a 'See also' that points at twisted,
though...


From frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com  Thu Nov 25 06:12:50 2004
From: frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com (Frithiof Andreas Jensen)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 12:12:50 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org><mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org><zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>
	<Xns95AA61D98B7D7duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<mailman.6721.1101208339.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <co4egh$j5c$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>


"Carlos Ribeiro" <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.6721.1101208339.5135.python-list at python.org...

> With patents will become impossible to implement
> software that is compatible with MS offerings.

In the end, all that is achieved is to be in the position that DEC, IBM, and
countless others placed themselves in:
Sealed in behind proprietary connectors, standards and protocols and finding
that they forgot to leave airholes in that box ;-)
Just about *every* proprietary standard ever invented eventually is
subverted and die because nobody wants the hassle and risk of dealing with
it,  it gets in the way of "The Job" whereas the Generic *facilitates* "The
Job".

> With patents, Microsoft can also strike back at open-source with an
> economical argument: "I am the innovator and those guys are copying my
> innovation and dumping the market with cheap copies". Its a good
> argument for courts, and one that a conservative administration (read
> Bush) is ready to buy.

T-Rex was pretty fearsome too for a while but it did not cut much ice when
the ecosystem changed!




From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Nov 19 13:13:14 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:13:14 -0800
Subject: Events
In-Reply-To: <MPG.1c08708d5ec6746c989688@news-server>
References: <MPG.1c08708d5ec6746c989688@news-server>
Message-ID: <419e4a9e$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

factory wrote:
>   Anyone want to comment on what they think of this following bit of a 
> simple event framework?
>   Are there any really obvious things I should be doing with this code 
> that stop me from getting bitten on the arse in the future?
...
> class FoobarTalker( Talker ):
>     importantEvent= 42
>     
>     def SomethingHappened( self, something ):
>         self.Talk( FoobarTalker.importantEvent, something )
...

Rather than making events be numbers (simple discrete things),
I suspect that you'd be happier with a hierarchy.  This way
You can listen to "all kinds of events."

Python gives you a nice way to define hierarchies in classes,
so you could use classes directly as your events, or make
your events instances (and thus allow data to be attached to
the event).  Certainly if you are attaching data, and possibly
even if you you are not, you may want to provide a means of
retrieving "the current event."  You could even look at the
history of exceptions in python for a model of what you might want.

So, for events:
class Event(object): pass   # The mother event in case you need to share
class ImportantEvent(Event): pass
class IgnorableEvent(Event): pass
class UsefulEvent(Event): pass

you could change the guts of your Talk method from:
...
 >             evt, listener = i
 >             if evt == event:
 >                 listener(*args)
To:
...
               criterion, listener = i
               if issubclass(event, criterion):
                   listener(*args)

Or (for the data-attached form):
               criterion, listener = i
               if isinstance(event, criterion):
                   listener(*args)
...


From drew at gremlinhosting.com  Thu Nov 25 14:31:27 2004
From: drew at gremlinhosting.com (Andrew James)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 19:31:27 +0000
Subject: Does anyone know of a Python WebDAV library?
Message-ID: <1101411087.30632.17.camel@odin>

All,
I've been trying to find a generic WebDAV library (possibly with the
extra versioning extensions) in Python for a project I'm developing with
mod_python. Ideally, I'm looking for one which which wraps around the
XML and lets you instantiate classes for each request, like:

 req = PropFindRequest(myRequestText)
 resp = PropFindResponse(files)

I've found two possibilities so far: 

http://comlounge.net/webdav/ - DAVServer

and

http://sandbox.xerox.com/webdav/ - Python WebDAV Server

Neither of these projects provides the sort of interface that I'm
looking for, and neither seems to be currently maintained. I'd rather
not roll my own library if I can avoid it - can anyone point me in the
direction of some existing work or (preferably) a current project?

I will buy the owner of the winning response a drink should he/she ever
come to London...

Many thanks.
Andrew

-- 
Andrew James <drew at gremlinhosting.com>



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Wed Nov 10 16:25:31 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:25:31 -0800
Subject: Combine two dictionaries into a list of 3-tuples
In-Reply-To: <cmu004$j6q$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
References: <cmu004$j6q$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <41929a86@nntp0.pdx.net>

Nickolay Kolev wrote:
> My attempts so far:
> ... [(t, c, l) for t, c in one.items() for (t, l) in two.items()]

Simply forget about items for two.
     [(key, val1, two[key]) for key, val1 in one.items() if key in two]

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Thu Nov 11 19:41:21 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 11 Nov 2004 16:41:21 -0800
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<60dfb6f6.0411050715.601f381f@posting.google.com>
	<2v82u3F2dhtcpU1@uni-berlin.de> <cmoqn9$cbf$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<10p1ud2juqlkb7c@corp.supernews.com>
	<60dfb6f6.0411101037.5cd6a17d@posting.google.com>
	<10p52ccen1ql956@corp.supernews.com>
	<60dfb6f6.0411102119.2091c0d@posting.google.com>
	<10p7h4rphhpg64c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <60dfb6f6.0411111641.52902410@posting.google.com>

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message news:<10p7h4rphhpg64c at corp.supernews.com>...
> >If you paid attention
> >in your study of grammar, [...]
> 
> Please don't assume that someone who disagrees with you is either 
> uneducated or stupid.  It's rather insulting and wholly inappropriate.

Testy?  What, do you expect me to automatically give you credit for
having paid attention to some decades-ago schooling unrelated to you
field of work, even though I've never met or spoken to you?

Anyways, although you've claimed "rigid" is very specific in meaning,
based on some dictionary entries, I really don't see any arguments
that tried to refute my claim that "rigid" could be easily taken to
mean inability to reinterpret bits, or less easily to mean static
typing.  Conversely, I also didn't see any good examples of how
"solid" could easily mean something else.  (I thought the idea that it
could refer to data hiding quite a stretch, although not totally off
the wall.  Nevertheless, I would say "rigid" is vastly more applicable
to interpreting bits than "solid" is to data hiding.)

I would like to see your ideas and thoughts about how applicable
"solid" and "rigid" are specifically to typing.  I've already stated
my thoughts about this.  What objections to you have those points?


-- 
CARL BANKS


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Wed Nov 10 11:49:27 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:49:27 -0700
Subject: Packing list elements into tuples
In-Reply-To: <eaac783a04111003004f6e09d5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cmrcqq$rv4$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
	<loom.20041109T232213-140@post.gmane.org>
	<eaac783a04111003004f6e09d5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d11dcfba04111008497ba5888@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:00:52 +0800, Deepak Sarda <deepak.sarda at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >>> l = [1,2,3,4,5,6]
> > >>> zip(*(iter(l),)*3)
> > [(1, 2, 3), (4, 5, 6)]
> > >>> l = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9]
> > >>> zip(*(iter(l),)*3)
> > [(1, 2, 3), (4, 5, 6), (7, 8, 9)]
> 
> Can someone explain how this works?!
> 
[snip]
> 
> So zip() basically gets  zip(iter(l), iter(l), iter(l)) , right?

Close, but note that zip(iter(l), iter(l), iter(l)) creates three
iterators to the list l, while zip(*(iter(l),)*3) uses the same
iterator at each position in the tuple.

>>> l = [1,2,3,4,5,6]
>>> zip(iter(l), iter(l), iter(l))
[(1, 1, 1), (2, 2, 2), (3, 3, 3), (4, 4, 4), (5, 5, 5), (6, 6, 6)]
>>> itr = iter(l)
>>> zip(itr, itr, itr)
[(1, 2, 3), (4, 5, 6)]

Here's basically what zip ends up doing when you give it 3 names bound
to the same iterator:

>>> itr = iter(l)
>>> tuple1 = (itr.next(), itr.next(), itr.next())
>>> tuple1
(1, 2, 3)
>>> tuple2 = (itr.next(), itr.next(), itr.next())
>>> tuple2
(4, 5, 6)
>>> result = [tuple1, tuple2]
>>> result
[(1, 2, 3), (4, 5, 6)]

Note that when they're not the same iterator, zip does something like:

>>> itr1, itr2, itr3 = iter(l), iter(l), iter(l)
>>> tuple1 = (itr1.next(), itr2.next(), itr3.next())
>>> tuple1
(1, 1, 1)
>>> tuple2 = (itr1.next(), itr2.next(), itr3.next())
>>> tuple2
(2, 2, 2)
...

So you just get 3 copies of the elements at each index in your list.

Hope that helped!

Steve
-- 
You can wordify anything if you just verb it.
        - Bucky Katt, Get Fuzzy


From beliavsky at 127.0.0.1  Wed Nov  3 15:11:08 2004
From: beliavsky at 127.0.0.1 (beliavsky@aol.com)
Date: 3 Nov 2004 14:11:08 -0600
Subject: Problems using numarray
References: <cmb3al$sgi$00$2@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <41893b5c$1_1@127.0.0.1>


Sonium <sonium at gmail.com> wrote:
>Hi, I am new to numarray and I'm going to use it in a nummerical 
>computation of planet and probe orbits. There for I created a body 
>class, representing an gravity affected mass (like a planet or a probe).
>Now I have different bodys each with it's own position, velocity and 
>mass that pull each other together by gravity. Based on the previous 
>position and velocity I'm now calculating the positions and velocity for

>  the next timeframe and so on... So I get a quite high amout of data 
>because i have to store (number-of-bodys)*(number-of-timeframe) objects.
>
>Now, how can I use a numaray to store the body objects? I read the docu,

>but didn't figure out how to solve my problem. In C++ I just created a 
>multidimensilnal array like data = new body[objects*timeframes] and I'm

>looking for something synonymous with numarray.

I asked a similar question regarding Numeric a few months ago, with subject
"Numeric array of objects" -- see http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&selm=3064b51d.0403031508.53498c6f%40posting.google.com
for the thread. Probably the syntax is the same for Numeric and Numarray,
but I have not checked.



----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---


From donn at drizzle.com  Thu Nov 11 01:54:20 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 06:54:20 -0000
Subject: Problem flushing stderr in embedded python
References: <VoRjd.33$iY3.7@trnddc01>
	<aa1af1ad.0411082048.6432d122@posting.google.com>
	<DW7kd.2069$z_4.652@trnddc07> <1100065836.697971@yasure>
	<drukd.642$ho6.442@trnddc05>
Message-ID: <1100156058.567069@yasure>

Quoth "Farshid Lashkari" <lashkariNO at SPAMworldviz.com>:
...
| I've tried calling fflush on stderr, but that doesn't work either.

OK, this would seem to mean that your sys.stderr has been replaced
with something else.  I guess I don't know for sure what you can
count on in Windows, but I would have to expect that fflush on stderr
really does work - that is, it flushes stderr's buffer.

| I've encountered another weird problem also. If my python code causes an
| error and I don't flush stderr, then I get a runtime error when my app
| exits. It also prints out:
|
| Exception exceptions.NameError: "global name 'y' is not defined" in 'garbage
| collection' ignored
| Fatal Python error: unexpected exception during garbage collection.
|
| Does this give anybody a clue as to what's happening?

Doesn't do anything for me, but you may find out what that is when you
locate the code for the faux stderr you're (not) flushing.  I would be
more worried about this 'y' thing in principle, though, because it sounds
like a problem in the C (or whatever) to Python interface that could have
other unpleasant consequences.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From someone at microsoft.com  Sat Nov 20 19:25:03 2004
From: someone at microsoft.com (Jive)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 00:25:03 GMT
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <mailman.5272.1098381729.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gm17og.ctwoqv17vkctxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com><419EEEAA.D3C1046F@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6643.1100939117.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <zfRnd.4851029$ic1.459234@news.easynews.com>

I take it the ampersand is a neologism in 2.4?

Jive

jdadson at yahoo dott com

"Ian Bicking" <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.6643.1100939117.5135.python-list at python.org...
> Jive Dadson wrote:
> > If you have, for example, several data-types for matrices, how do you
> > write code that will automatically find the right routine for quickly
> > multiplying a vector by a diagonal matrix represented as a vector, and
> > automatically call the right code for multiplying by a sparse matrix
> > represented by some sparse coding, etc?
>
> I haven't been following this thread, but Phillip Eby's recent
> implementation of generic functions should be mentioned if it hasn't
> been already:
>
> http://dirtsimple.org/2004/11/generic-functions-have-landed.html
>
> It might look something like this:
>
> @dispatch.on('m1', 'm2')
> def matrix_mul(m1, m2):
>      "Multiply two matrices"
>
> @matrix_mul.when(VectorMatrix, SparseMatrix)
> def matrix_mul_sparse(m1, m2):
>      "Special implementation"
>
>
> -- 
> Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  / http://blog.ianbicking.org




From godoy at ieee.org  Thu Nov 25 07:13:28 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 10:13:28 -0200
Subject: Python 2.4 and Visual C++ Express
References: <XQfod.15475$3u6.726077@wagner.videotron.net>
	<9APod.4998157$ic1.468025@news.easynews.com>
	<30ji62F31ppn0U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<KO6pd.5049226$ic1.472572@news.easynews.com>
	<mailman.6770.1101339210.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3u0reqg7r.fsf@g2ctech.com>

Tim Peters <tim.peters at gmail.com> writes:

> 2.4 based on MSVC 6.  There's no policy against that, but Pythons
                                                            ^^^^^^^
> don't grow on trees.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sorry, but I couldn't resist the joke  :-) :

http://www.whozoo.org/Intro98/jennglaz/jennglaz21.htm


Be seeing you,
-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at ieee.org>


From boumenotspamyou at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 18 11:21:09 2004
From: boumenotspamyou at hotmail.com (Christopher Boumenot)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 11:21:09 -0500
Subject: PIL for Python 2.4?
In-Reply-To: <b0cpp0tveaidq3lbnsvnji5apnloi4u2g8@4ax.com>
References: <6r6pp018glonqu2kqeau5ru9nhfj9fpchv@4ax.com>
	<mailman.6543.1100784027.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<b0cpp0tveaidq3lbnsvnji5apnloi4u2g8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <cnii5l$lq7$1@news1brm.Central.Sun.COM>

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:17:50 +0100, rumours say that Gerhard Haering
> <gh at ghaering.de> might have written:
> 
> 
>>>Has anyone built PIL (1.1.4 or 1.1.5) for Python 2.4?  If yes,
>>>please let me know, [...]
>>
>>I haven't. But it would have been useful if you had mentioned which
>>platform ;-) Windows?
> 
> 
> Oh, yes, Windows... On Linux I built it myself.  I just don't have
> access to a MS compiler on Windows.
> 
> Sorry for not being clear.


You can download Microsoft's C/C++ compiler for free.  (It's command 
line only, but good enough.)

http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/vctoolkit2003/


Chris


From misterbike at hotmail.com  Sat Nov 13 14:50:54 2004
From: misterbike at hotmail.com (Craig D)
Date: 13 Nov 2004 11:50:54 -0800
Subject: utility for install in zipped distutils packages
Message-ID: <638038a2.0411131150.5e2a6926@posting.google.com>

I got really tired of unpacking a distutils package, installing then
cleaning up. So I wrote distinstall.py - it reads a zip file, unpacks
it, installs the bits and cleans up. I've only used it on windows and
Linux and for pure Python packages.
Windows: distinstall.py Photronics.zip
Linux:   python distinstall.py Photronics.zip

Hopefully somebody else will find it useful.

#======================== distinstall.py =====================
#!/usr/bin/env python
'''Install a zipped up distutils package'''

import zipfile
import sys, os, os.path

def usage():
   print "distinstall.py pack.zip: Install a zipped distutil python
package"
   print "One arg: name of the zip package"
   print "THIS PROGRAM ONLY WORKS WITH ZIPPED PURE PYTHON PACKAGES!"
   sys.exit(1)

def nuke(top):
    # Delete everything reachable from the directory named in 'top'.
    # CAUTION:  This is dangerous!  For example, if top == '/', it
    # could delete all your disk files.
    for root, dirs, files in os.walk(top, topdown=False):
       for name in files:
	  os.remove(os.path.join(root, name))
       for name in dirs:
	  os.rmdir(os.path.join(root, name))
    os.rmdir(top)
			

def explodeZipFile(zippedPackageFileName):
   if not zipfile.is_zipfile(zippedPackageFileName):
      print '"%s" is not a zip file!' % zippedPackageFileName
      usage()
   zip = zipfile.ZipFile(zippedPackageFileName,'r')
   if not filter(lambda n:"setup.py" in n, zip.namelist()):
      print "setup.py isn't in the zip file! Not a distutil package?"
      usage()

   tmp = os.getenv('TMP') or os.getenv('TMPDIR')
   if (not tmp) and os.path.isdir('/tmp'): tmp = '/tmp'
   if not tmp:
      print 'Can\'t find the tmp directory!'
      sys.exit(1)

   path,fileName = os.path.split(zippedPackageFileName)
   tmpDir = os.path.join(tmp,os.path.splitext(fileName)[0])

   print "unzip %s to %s" % (zippedPackageFileName,tmpDir)
   for z in zip.namelist():
#      print z
      data = zip.read(z)
      try:
	 os.makedirs(os.path.join(tmp,os.path.split(z)[0]),0777)
      except: pass
      f = file(os.path.join(tmp,z),'w')	#?? what's up with wb?
      f.writelines(data.split('\r'))	# this really sucks
      f.close()

   zip.close()
   setup  = os.path.join(tmpDir,"setup.py")
   return tmpDir,setup


if len(sys.argv) < 2: usage()

cwd = os.getcwd()
zippedPackageFileName = sys.argv[1]
tmpDir,setup = explodeZipFile(zippedPackageFileName)

print "====================Install================="
os.chdir(tmpDir)
install = "%s setup.py install --force" % sys.executable
print install
os.system(install)

os.chdir(cwd)
print "\nClean up %s" % tmpDir
nuke(tmpDir)	# this will clean up the build directory
#======================== distinstall.py =====================


From maney at pobox.com  Mon Nov  8 15:11:32 2004
From: maney at pobox.com (Martin Maney)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:11:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com> <2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<60dfb6f6.0411050715.601f381f@posting.google.com>
	<2v82u3F2dhtcpU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cmojtk$11u$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
>    solid typing -- sharp boundaries between types, few
>                    automatic coercions

>    fluid typing -- lots of automatic coercions

> (Don't ask me what "gaseous typing" might mean...)

Surely that would be typing by context, no?

-- 
Among the greater ironies of the computer age is the fact that
information is cheap and accessible, and so it is no longer very valuable.
What is valuable is what one does with it.
And human imagination cannot be mechanized. -- the New York Times


From adam at 757.org  Sun Nov  7 14:57:25 2004
From: adam at 757.org (Adam C.)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 14:57:25 -0500
Subject: recover data from html form
In-Reply-To: <NrqdnSTjEc5g3xfcRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
References: <cmcqf0$e1n$3@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
	<NrqdnSTjEc5g3xfcRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <T4vjd.3059$FE.2861@lakeread06>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Armand Federico - INFO wrote:
> 
>> How can i recover data from an html module?
>> I have a form that send 3 or 4 text field
>>
>> I wanna to recover this data, to analyse, and process, and insert in 
>> MySQL
>>
>> (mod_python, Mysql4, Apache1.3)
> 
> 
> The question is unclear.  Are you looking for suggestions on
> the process called "web scraping"?  (search the web before
> responding, if that term is unfamiliar to you, please)

I think he's looking for the REQUEST object that mod_python passes in 
containing the GET/POST elements from his text fields.
Check out:
http://www.modpython.org/live/current/doc-html/tut-pub.html
for a quick introduction to using the request object with an HTML form.

--
Adam


From bounces at foo.org  Mon Nov 22 20:04:38 2004
From: bounces at foo.org (Dan)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 01:04:38 GMT
Subject: Identifying exceptions that can be raised
In-Reply-To: <tf3a72-5f.ln1@lairds.us>
References: <cVdnd.7986$tS4.4873@trndny09> <6Rknd.6671$%M4.4203@trndny08>
	<cnmcek$rju$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<JQNnd.2125$hJ6.1416@trndny01> <tf3a72-5f.ln1@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <G0wod.4056$356.3911@trndny04>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> I'm sympathetic.  It bothers me no end when working 
> with C and Java that documenters are as relaxed as
> I've found them to be in failing to document error
> conditions.

Then there was the DEC C library, in which free() returned an error code 
on failure--and was so documented, but which was prototyped to return 
void as required by the standard.

But I'll stop looking for the tool that finds all the exceptions that a 
function can raise. :-)

/Dan

-- 
dedded att verizon dott net


From gumuz at NO_looze_SPAM.net  Tue Nov 30 07:18:22 2004
From: gumuz at NO_looze_SPAM.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:18:22 +0100
Subject: Python Huffman encoding
References: <41a525c6$0$76502$b83b6cc0@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<tkeqd.50271$g21.8670@fe1.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <41ac64f3$0$16481$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

Wow Paul!

thanks a lot for your comments! I learned a lot already only by reading
them, I will implement them and see what the speed gains are.

Keep an eye on my blog, I will post an update on it soon!


thanks,
guyon

ps. love this group


"Paul McGuire" <ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com> wrote in message

>
http://gumuz.looze.net/wordpress/index.php/archives/2004/11/25/huffman-encoding/

> Great first step at some self-learning with a non-trivial test program.
> Here are some performance speedups that will help you out.




From ed-no at spam-eepatents.com  Wed Nov 24 14:16:56 2004
From: ed-no at spam-eepatents.com (Ed Suominen)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:16:56 -0800
Subject: GCJ equivalent for Python?
Message-ID: <Af-dnWNrt-27QzncRVn-iA@centurytel.net>

I have been programming Python for a year or so and like everything about it
except for the difficulty of distributing programs to someone who doesn't
have the 10MB+ interpreter package downloaded installed.

I'm a frequent user of pdftk, a Java-based PDF-manipulation program that
runs natively (no JVM required) because it is compiled with gcj. It's
plenty fast and you really never know that it was written in Java unless
you try to build it.

So, the question naturally arises, why isn't there something like the gcj
compiler for Python?

Ed Suominen
Registered Patent Agent
Open-Source Software Author (yes, both...)
Web Site: http://www.eepatents.com


From jhefferon at smcvt.edu  Mon Nov 22 19:45:40 2004
From: jhefferon at smcvt.edu (Jim Hefferon)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 16:45:40 -0800
Subject: Identifying exceptions that can be raised
References: <cVdnd.7986$tS4.4873@trndny09>
	<mailman.6579.1100837821.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<6Rknd.6671$%M4.4203@trndny08>
	<cnmcek$rju$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <545cb8c2.0411221645.442bb88a@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote ..
> The usual approach is to have a caller catch exceptions
> *which it is capable of dealing with appropriately*, and
> ignore others.  In some cases it's necessary to have a
> "generic" exception handler, such as at the top level of
> a thread, to catch and log all exceptions, but that's
> relatively rare.

I wonder if perhaps you don't write different kinds of programs than I
do.

For instance, I have a cgi program.  One routine will get an id from a
httpd parameter, use it to reach into a database and fetch some xml,
and then pull information out of the xml for display.  That I can
tell, there are about 100 exceptions that could be raised (the xml
parser is vague about what it could raise, and although the dB is a
bit better, it is not always clear what an exception means or under
what condidtions it could be raised).  I'm left with the feeling that
for any amount of testing that I do (and I've found cgi hard to
automatically test), there is always another exception lurking out
there.  I have a great deal of difficulty achieving the feeling that I
am consistently returning a sensible error screen to the user.

I've tried Java, and found it a slog, but for some programs knowing
which exceptions could be raised would be a comfort.

> All that said, you do sometimes find yourself pondering
> what exceptions a given function might raise and which
> you *do* want to handle properly.  It's not always clear,
> and unfortunately short of examining the source or hoping
> that the author wrote decent documentation, you're out
> of luck.

I second that.

Jim


From someone at microsoft.com  Sat Nov 27 22:48:42 2004
From: someone at microsoft.com (Jive)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 03:48:42 GMT
Subject: futue feature division not found  (embedded)
References: <Ix7qd.5229833$ic1.487950@news.easynews.com>
	<41a925d5.1197560430@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <uUbqd.3744579$yk.574653@news.easynews.com>


"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
news:41a925d5.1197560430 at news.oz.net...
> On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 22:51:24 GMT, "Jive" <someone at microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> >I've got a program with Python 2.3 embedded.  When I try to run a script
> >containing "from __future__ import division", I get an exception:
> >
> >    File "main2.py", line 3
> >    from __future__ import divison
> >SyntaxError: future feature divison is not defined
>                                  ^^ s/divison/division/  ;-)
> >
> >Anyone know how to fix that?  BTW, when I run the program with
> >CO_FUTURE_DIVISION set in PyCompilerFlags, division works the new way, as
it
>                                                 ^^^
> >should.
> >
> >
> HTH. On to the next bug ;-)

What's HTH?

It does fail though.  Here's the message when I type it right:

File "main2.py", line 3, in ?
    from __future__ import division
ImportError: No module named __future__

I didn't misspell __future__ did I?




From michael at stroeder.com  Thu Nov 11 16:29:50 2004
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:29:50 +0100
Subject: ANN: python-ldap-2.0.5
Message-ID: <mailman.6294.1100214784.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>

Find a new release of python-ldap:

   http://python-ldap.sourceforge.net/

python-ldap provides an object-oriented API to access LDAP directory
servers from Python programs. It mainly wraps the OpenLDAP 2.x libs for
that purpose. Additionally it contains modules for other LDAP-related
stuff (e.g. processing LDIF, LDAPURLs and LDAPv3 schema).

----------------------------------------------------------------
Released 2.0.5 2004-11-11

Changes since 2.0.4:

Some small improvements for SASL:
The noisy output during SASL bind is avoided now. Interaction
with output on stderr can be enabled by the calling application
by explicitly defining SASL flags.

Removed obsolete directory Win32/.

Lib/:
* Make sure that ldap.sasl.sasl.cb_value_dict is a dictionary
   even when the caller passes in None to argument cb_value_dict
* Added new key-word arg sasl_flags to method
   LDAPObject.sasl_interactive_bind_s()

Modules/:
* l_ldap_sasl_interactive_bind_s():
   New key-word arg sasl_flags passed to
   ldap_sasl_interactive_bind_s()


From jfouhy at paradise.net.nz  Sun Nov  7 23:02:36 2004
From: jfouhy at paradise.net.nz (John Fouhy)
Date: 7 Nov 2004 20:02:36 -0800
Subject: Floating point -> string conversions
Message-ID: <c0f3aa87.0411072002.7c42331e@posting.google.com>

Can someone explain these differences?

>>> from math import pi
>>> pi
3.1415926535897931
>>> type(pi)
<type 'float'>
>>> repr(pi)
'3.1415926535897931'
>>> str(pi)
'3.14159265359'
>>> '%f' % pi
'3.141593'
>>> '%.16f' % pi
'3.1415926535897931'

Why do the string and default floating point representations get rounded?

(and is this documented anywhere?)

-- 
John.


From ukunapul at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  2 02:30:17 2004
From: ukunapul at hotmail.com (Uday)
Date: 1 Nov 2004 23:30:17 -0800
Subject: Newbie question
Message-ID: <783d0f8c.0411012330.4172d1d4@posting.google.com>

Hi,
  I would like to know how can I create and assign variables by 
de-referencing the values in other variable in Python. 

I can illustrate what I mean by an example of perl

$a = "task_id";
$i = "1";
$c = $a."_".$i;
$$c = 2;
print "$task_id_1\n";
# Gives the answer as 2

My problem is that I need to dynamically generate a unique 
variable within a for loop in Python. The name of the variable
should be appended by the index of the loop. 

In the above example if $i were an array index, then as we
traverse through the array, a unique variable is defined.

Is there any way to do it in Python??

I am not in python.users mailing list, please reply to me directly.

Thanks,
Uday


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Sat Nov  6 01:47:04 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 01:47:04 -0500
Subject: CGIs and file exclusion
In-Reply-To: <4edc17eb.0411052049.7df47379@posting.google.com>
References: <2uvedvF2g1pv3U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<6f402501.0411050228.aea8068@posting.google.com>
	<4edc17eb.0411052049.7df47379@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1f7befae04110522476d98e20f@mail.gmail.com>

[Michele Simionato]
> ...
> Maybe Diez B. Roggisch is right and a real database server is the simplest
> solution. However my first attempt with ZEO didn't worked either:

That's OK, nobody's first attempt with any database server works <0.6 wink>.

> $ cat zeoclient.py
> import ZODB, ZEO
> from ZEO.ClientStorage import ClientStorage
>
> def openzeo(host, port):
>    db = ZODB.DB(ClientStorage((host, port)))
>    conn = db.open()
>    return db, conn, conn.root()
>
> def store():
>    # I have a ZEO instance running on port 9999
>    print "Opening the db ..."
>    db, conn, root = openzeo("localhost", 9999)
>    print "Storing something ..."
>    root["somekey"] = "somedata"

It's important to note that store() always changes at least the root object.

>    get_transaction().commit()
>    print "Closing the db ..."
>    conn.close(); db.close()
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>    store()
> 
> $ echo Makefile
> default:
>        python zeoclient.py&
>        python zeoclient.py
> 
> $ make
> python zeoclient.py&
> python zeoclient.py
> Opening the db ...
> Opening the db ...
>
> Storing something ...
> Storing something ...
> Closing the db ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "zeoclient.py", line 20, in ?
>    store()
>  File "zeoclient.py", line 15, in store
>    get_transaction().commit()
>  File "/usr/share/partecs/zope/lib/python/ZODB/Transaction.py", line
> 247, in commit
> ~/pt/python/zopexplore $
> ~/pt/python/zopexplore $     vote(self)
>  File "/usr/share/partecs/zope/lib/python/ZODB/Connection.py", line
> 699, in tpc_vote
>    s = vote(transaction)
>  File "/opt/zope/lib/python/ZEO/ClientStorage.py", line 841, in
> tpc_vote
>    return self._check_serials()
>  File "/opt/zope/lib/python/ZEO/ClientStorage.py", line 825, in
> _check_serials
>    raise s
> ZODB.POSException.ConflictError: database conflict error (oid
> 0000000000000000, serial was 035900d31b7fedaa, now 035900d2f6cd8799)
>
> (it works with a single process instead).

Yes, that's predictable too <wink>.
 
> Maybe I misunderstood how ZEO is intended to be used, as usual it is
> difficult to found the relevant documentation :-( Maybe I should ask
> on another list ...

zodb-dev at zope.org is the best place for ZODB/ZEO questions independent
of Zope use.  Note that you must subscribe to a zope.org list in order
to post to it (that's a Draconian but very effective anti-spam
policy).

In the case above, ZEO isn't actually relevant.  You'd see the same
thing if you had a single process with two threads, each using a
"direct" ZODB connection to the same database.

ZODB doesn't do object-level locking.  It relies on "optimistic
concurrency control" (a googlable phrase) instead, which is especially
appropriate for high-read low-write applications like most Zope
deployments.

In effect, that means it won't stop you from trying to do something
insane, but does stop you from *completing* it.  What you got above is
a "write conflict error", and is normal behavior.  What happens:

- Process A loads revision n of some particular object O.
- Process B loads the same revision n of O.
- Process A modifies O, creating revision n+1.
- Process A commits its change to O.  Revsion n+1 is then current.
- Process B modifies O, creating revision n+2.
- Process B *tries* to commit its change to O.

The implementation of commit() investigates, and effectively says
"Hmm.  Process B started with revision n of O, but revision n+1 is
currently committed.  That means B didn't *start* with the currently
committed revision of O, so B has no idea what might have happened in
revision n+1 -- B may be trying to commit an insane change as a
result.  Can't let that happen, so I'll raise ConflictError".  That
line of argument makes a lot more sense if more than one object is
involved, but maybe it's enough to hint at the possible problems.

Anyway, since your store() method always picks on the root object,
you're going to get ConflictErrors frequently.  It's bad application
design for a ZODB/ZEO app to have a "hot spot" like that.

In real life, all ZEO apps, and all multithreaded ZODB apps, always do
their work inside try/except structures.  When a conflict error
occurs, the except clause catches it, and generally tries the
transaction again.  In your code above, that isn't going to work well,
because there's a single object that's modified by every transaction
-- it will be rare for a commit() attempt not to give up with a
conflict error.

Perhaps paradoxically, it can be easier to get a real ZEO app working
well than one's first overly simple attempts -- ZODB effectively
*wants* you to scribble all over the database.


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 22 09:51:13 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:51:13 GMT
Subject: unicode question
References: <qkLnd.22919$jf.19362@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<419fc9b9$0$198$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<419ff7cd_3@newspeer2.tds.net> <41A061E1.8050203@v.loewis.de>
	<KH_nd.23139$jf.19287@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<41a0ab62$0$151$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<Y3hod.23808$jf.11140@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
Message-ID: <41a1d80d.718896828@news.oz.net>









On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:04:08 GMT, "wolfgang haefelinger" <wh2005 at web.de> wrote:

>Hi Martin,
>
>if print is implemented like this then I begin to understand the problem.
>
>Neverthelss, I regard
>
> print y.__str__()            ## works
> print y                           ## fails??
>
>as a very inconsistent behaviour.
>
>Somehow I have the feeling that Python should give up the distinction
>between unicode  and  str  and just have a str type which is internally
>unicode.
>
>
>Anyway, thanks for answering
>Wolfgang.
>
>""Martin v. L?wis"" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message 
>news:41a0ab62$0$151$9b622d9e at news.freenet.de...
>> wolfgang haefelinger wrote:
>>> I was actually thinking that
>>>
>>>  print x
>>>
>>> is just kind of shortcur for writing (simplifying bit):
>>>
>>>  import sys
>>>  if not (isinstance(x,str) or isinstance(x,unicode)) and x.__str__ :
>>>     x = x.__str__()
>>>  sys.stdout.write(x)
>>
>> This is too simplifying. For the context of this discussion,
>> it is rather
>>
>> import sys
>> if isinstance(x, unicode) and sys.stdout.encoding:
>>     x = x.encode(sys.stdout.encoding)
>> x = str(x)
>> sys.stdout.write(x)
>>
>> (this, of course, is still quite simplicated. It ignores tp_print,
>> and it ignores softspaces).
>>
>>> Or in words: if x is not a string type but has method __str__ then
>>>
>>>  print x
>>>
>>> behaves like
>>>
>>>  print x.__str__()
>>
>> No. There are many types for which this is not true; in this specific
>> case, it isn't true for Unicode objects.
>>
>>> Is this a bug??
>>
>> No. You are just misunderstanding it.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Martin 
>
It's an old issue, and ISTM there is either a problem or it needs to be better explained.
My bet is on a problem ;-) ISTM the key is that a plain str type is a byte sequence but can
be interpreted as a byte-stream-encoded character sequence, and there are some seemingly
schizophrenic situations. E.g., start with a sequence of numbers, obviously just produced
by a polynomial formula having nothing to do with characters:

 >>> numbers = [(lambda x: (-499*x**4 +4634*x**3 -13973*x**2 +13918*x +1824)/24)(x) for x in xrange(5)]
 >>> numbers
 [76, 246, 119, 105, 115]

Now if we convert those to str type characters with chr() and join them:

 >>> s = ''.join(map(chr, numbers))

Then we have a sequence of bytes which could have had any numerical value in range(256). No character
encoding is assumed. Yet. If we now assume, say, a latin-1 encoding, we can decode the bytes into
unicode:

 >>> u = s.decode('latin-1')
 >>> type(u)
 <type 'unicode'>

Now if we print that, sys.stdout.encoding should come into play:

 >>> print u
 L?wis

 :-)

And we are ok, because we were explicit the whole way.
But if we don't decode s explicitly, it seems the system makes an assumption:

 >>> print s
 L?wis

That is (if it survived) the 'cp437' character for byte '\xf6'. IOW, print seems
to assume that a plain str is encoded ready for output in sys.stdout.encoding in
a kind of reinterpret_cast of the str, or else a decode('cp437').encode('cp437')
optimized away.

 >>> sys.stdout.encoding
 'cp437'
 >>> sys.getdefaultencoding()
 'ascii'

If it were assuming s was encoded as ascii, it should really do s.decode('ascii').encode('cp437')
to get it printed, but for plain str literals it does not seem to do that. I.e.,

 >>> s.decode('ascii')
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xf6 in position 1: ordinal not in range(128

doesn't work, so it can't be doing that. It seems to print s as s.decode('cp437').encode('cp437')

 >>> s.decode('cp437')
 u'L\xf7wis'

but that is a wrong decoding, (though the system can't be expected to know).

 >>> print s.decode('cp437').encode('cp437')
 L?wis
 >>> print s.decode('latin-1').encode('cp437')
 L?wis

What other decoding should be attempted, lacking an indication? sys.getdefaultencoding()
might be reasonable, but it seems to be locked into 'ascii' (I don't know how to set it)

 >>> sys.getdefaultencoding = lambda: 'latin-1'
 >>> sys.getdefaultencoding()
 'latin-1'
 >>> unicode('L\xf6wis')
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xf6 in position 1: ordinal not in range(128


So, bottom line, as Wolfgang effectively asked by his example, why does print try to coerce
the __str__ return value to ascii on the way to the ouput encoder, when there is encoding info
in the unicode object that it is happy to defer reencoding of for sys.stdout.encoding?

 >>> s
 'L\xf6wis'
 >>> u
 u'L\xf6wis'
 >>> print s
 L?wis
 >>> print u
 L?wis
 >>> class Y:
 ...     def __str__(self): return self.c
 ...
 >>> y = Y()
 >>> y.c = s
 >>> print y
 L?wis
 >>> y.c = u
 >>> print y
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xf6' in position 1: ordinal not in r
 ange(128)
 >>> print u
 L?wis

Maybe the output of __str__ should be ok as a type basestring subclass for print, so
 y.c = u
 print y
above has the same result as
 print u

It seems to be trying to do u.encode('ascii').decode('ascii').encode('cp437')
instead of directly u.encode('cp437') when __str__ is involved.

 >>> print u'%s' % y
 L?wis

works, and

 >>> print '%s' % u
 L?wis

works, and 

 >>> print y.__str__()
 L?wis

and

 >>> print y.c
 L?wis

works,
>>> y.c
u'L\xf6wis'

but

 >>> print '%s'%y
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xf6' in position 1: ordinal not in r
 ange(128)

and never mind print,

 >>> '%s' % u
 u'L\xf6wis'
 >>> '%s' % y.__str__()
 u'L\xf6wis'
 >>> '%s' % y
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xf6' in position 1: ordinal not in r
 ange(128)

I guess its that str.__mod__(self, other) can deal with a unicode other and get promoted, but
it must do str(other) instead of other.__str__(), or it would be able to promote the result in
the latter case too...

This seems like a possible change that could smooth things a bit, especially if print a,b,c
was then effectively the same as print ('%s'%a),('%s'%b),('%s'%c) with encoding promotion.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 16 06:00:56 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:00:56 +0100
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<20041114200132.20649.1982992758.divmod.quotient.5222@ohm>
	<mailman.6390.1100553070.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbf8z.mirt8m687hvbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6397.1100570319.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnc2jt.uw5i19s61aieN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6409.1100591151.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gncdvv.1y2msbz1yc1gaeN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

> > but the point is whether, if and when 'optional static typing' _syntax_
> > gets it, it will have this semantics or that of inserting a lot of
> > typechecks... people can do typecheks or adaptation now, and neither
> > will go away -- but which, if either, should syntax facilitate?  That,
> > as I see it, is key.
> 
> I guess it all depends.
> "In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess."
> "Explicit is better than implicit."
> 
> With the requisite zens quoted, I'd say that there should be an explicit
> way to do both, because guessing which one (but not both) is necessarily
> the wrong thing to do.

Since the actual need for type-checking is extremely rare, I contend it
should not _at all_ be a candidate for a syntax to facilitate it.  Since
the actual need for adaptation is much wider, I contend it's the one
obvious choice for the "nice syntax" if any.
 
> With that said, type-based dispatch, checking and adaptation are
> provided by decorators, which are explicit.  They are not a syntax
> per-se, but they will get the job done in the mean time (if placing type
> checking and adaptations in the function body is not sufficient).

Type checking is ugly, so it's quite fitting that it be implemented in
ugly ways -- by boilerplate or user-coded splats.  Adaptation is
beautiful, and beautiful is better than ugly (see, I can quote the zen
of Python too...), so it should have nice syntax (<var> 'as' <itf>).

Type-based dispatch is a little bit of a mess to implement with
decorators, IMHO.  Consider the hypothetical code...:

class A(object):
  @ dispatch(int)
  def foo(x): ...

  @ dispatch(float)
  def foo(x): ...

class B(object):
  @ dispatch(int)
  def foo(x): ...

  @ dispatch(str)
  def foo(x): ...

Sure, dispatch can be a H**2OF which returns a dispatching-foo and
stashes somewhere a (say) foo__int, foo__float or whatever, but the
problem is, _WHAT_ 'somewhere'.  dispatch isn't told what class body
it's being called from, so it can't easily stash stuff in the obvious
place, the class dictionary being built.  Attributes of the
dispatching-foo don't seem good, because of the problem of getting at
the right previously-returned dispatching-foo object on successive calls
of dispatch from within the same class body (but not from separate class
bodies).   Maybe some peek-into-the-stack black magic or custom
metaclass can help, but it does seem a little bit of a mess, unless I'm
overlooking something obvious.  If the implementation is hard to
explain, it's a bad idea...


Alex


From jarppe_remove_this_ at gmail.com  Fri Nov  5 08:28:16 2004
From: jarppe_remove_this_ at gmail.com (Jarppe)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 13:28:16 GMT
Subject: Calling python interpreter from a thread created in C
In-Reply-To: <hgfko0hfq6rg90r3u1etje2kp61d9vmnnv@4ax.com>
References: <dwKhd.29147$k4.563552@news1.nokia.com>
	<hgfko0hfq6rg90r3u1etje2kp61d9vmnnv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <QdLid.29561$g4.553162@news2.nokia.com>

Hi,

Greg Chapman wrote:
> First, you need to ensure that Python is ready for threading.  From the
> application's main thread, call PyEval_InitThreads (if this has already been
> called, it simply returns.  But if this is the first call, it assumes it is
> being called on the application's main thread, so you don't want to call this on
> your callback thread).

That's it!!! I didn't realize that and I just keep getting SIGSEGV no 
matter what I did. I added call to PyEval_InitThreads() and it started 
to work immediately! Thanks!!!

> Then, in your thread's callback, call PyGILState_Ensure before accessing any
> part of the Python API.  When you're done working with python, call
> PyGILState_Release.  See the documentation and example here:
 >
 > http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/api/threads.html
 >
 > (Note that before the example of using PyGILState_Ensure,
 > the text refers to
 > needing an interpreter state.  This text is left over
 > from versions before
 > PyGILState was introduced.  Just do what the example shows
 > and you shouldn't have a problem.)

Oh, that's interesting! I used PyEval_AcquireThread() and 
PyEval_ReleaseThread(). Now I changed to 
PyGILState_Ensure()/PyGILState_Release(), and now the code looks much 
simpler. And it works :)

Thanks a lot!!!

-- 

-jarppe

   If you have the right attitude, interesting problems will find you.
       -- Eric Steven Raymond


From belred1 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 16 20:13:31 2004
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 01:13:31 GMT
Subject: adaptation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6459.1100646366.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com><20041114200132.20649.1982992758.divmod.quotient.5222@ohm><mailman.6390.1100553070.5135.python-list@python.org><1gnbf8z.mirt8m687hvbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com><mailman.6397.1100570319.5135.python-list@python.org><1gnc2jt.uw5i19s61aieN%aleaxit@yahoo.com><mailman.6409.1100591151.5135.python-list@python.org><1gncdvv.1y2msbz1yc1gaeN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<cxomd.93401$HA.21918@attbi_s01>
	<mailman.6459.1100646366.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <%Axmd.95367$HA.60678@attbi_s01>

Terry Reedy wrote:
>>example?
> 
> 
> The example used in the Zope3 programmer tutorial:
> 
> You have database of (USA) Buddy objects, each with firstname, lastname, 
> streetaddress, zipcode, and email fields.  You want to use them in a 
> context that requires the (redundant) city and state fields.  So you write 
> a zip to city/state lookup function and then an ExpandedBuddy adapter that 
> gets the zip from the adapted Buddy, calls city_state(zip), and packages 
> the result together as needed in the usage context.
> 
> Terry J. Reedy
> 
> 
> 

thanks carlos, alex, terry...

the part i was missing was that adapt() retrieves a registered customized adapter from a registry.  so, i see that this 
would completely decouple code which wants objects of protocol Y from code that created objects with different protocols 
X[n].  this seems to be the basic adapter pattern, but with the added feature of the registry lookup.  i'm sure there 
are some other dynamic benifits you get by using python.   i'll read the links the links that were posted and catch 
up... thanks,

bryan



From gashton at cmedltd.com  Mon Nov  1 16:34:53 2004
From: gashton at cmedltd.com (Graham Ashton)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 21:34:53 +0000
Subject: Flushing stdout
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.01.21.34.53.44206@cmedltd.com>

Hi. I'm having trouble flushing sys.stdout. I've written a small example
to illustrate my problem (see below). In short, I expect it to ping
"received hello", sleep for 5 seconds and then print "received world".
Instead I get nothing for 5 seconds and then both statements pop out at
once.

As you'll no doubt gather from the example, the problem I'm really trying
to solve is sending message back from one process to another via a pipe.
Changing the buffering option in the os.pipe() call doesn't have any
effect either.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

P.S. I've not found -u and PYTHONUNBUFFERED to help me.

P.P.S. I'm running 2.3.3 on Linux, libc 2.2.5-11.5.

---cut---
#!/usr/bin/env python

import os, sys, time

if len(sys.argv) > 1:
    sys.stdout.write("hello\n")
    sys.stdout.flush()
    time.sleep(5)
    sys.stdout.write("world\n")
else:
    command = "python %s foo" % os.path.basename(sys.argv[0])
    for line in os.popen(command, "r", 1):
        print "received", line,



From jbzsmith at lycos.com  Sat Nov 27 14:02:52 2004
From: jbzsmith at lycos.com (Jim Smith)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:02:52 -0700
Subject: [web_framework] Basic Question regarding web framework
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6842.1101575496.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6842.1101575496.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ULSdnZNCvMqjUjXcRVn-jQ@comcast.com>

Francis Lavoie wrote:
> 
> I have some knowledge with PHP and JSP.
> 
> Secondly, I would like to receive any advice on which webframe is best.
>

Each of the frameworks uses a different approach and has different 
strengths and weaknesses.  It depends on which one fits you brain the 
best.  The evaluation process can take a fair amount of time.

> Is webware is a good choice?

- Webware - Works well, but requires an application server that 
communicates with the web server.  This is difficult in many hosting 
situations.


A few that I like that work in most hosting environments are:

- Quixote - A programmer's approach.  You write a program that has 
subroutines that create the web pages.  This one either fits your brain 
or it doesn't. If you view your site as a program this is good choice.

http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/quixote/

- jonpy - A better CGI.  It provides an object oriented interface for 
writing CGI programs.  I like it for its simplicity.

http://jonpy.sourceforge.net/

- Spyce - Python Server Pages.  Web pages with embedded python.  The 
ability to embed Python chunks including proper indentation is very nice.

http://spyce.sourceforge.net/

All of these work well, it just depends your style.  If you are looking 
for something close to PHP then I think Spyce is your best choice.

Good luck,

Jim


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Nov 19 20:00:52 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 01:00:52 GMT
Subject: Pythonic list to bitflag mapping
In-Reply-To: <76c29906.0411191647.4b135e06@posting.google.com>
References: <76c29906.0411191647.4b135e06@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <NGwnd.360501$wV.13332@attbi_s54>

Ramon Felciano wrote:
> I have a list of integers that I'd like to convert to a bitflag or 1D
> matrix format:
> 
> a = [3,4,6]
> b = [0,0,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,0] # a 1 for each position in the a list
[snip]
> [1 if x in a else 0 for x in range(10)]

How about:

 >>> a = [3,4,6]
 >>> [int(x in a) for x in range(10)]
[0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0]

The idea here is to treat the bool 'x in a' as an int, making use of the 
fact that int(True) == 1 and int(False) == 0.

Steve


From changli_to at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 24 22:39:14 2004
From: changli_to at hotmail.com (Chang LI)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 19:39:14 -0800
Subject: Use Python library from C++
Message-ID: <89cc6e1f.0411241939.61a19596@posting.google.com>

I want to use the Python Libray from my C++ program.
The Python Libray is no GUI. How can I mix C++ and 
Python? 

One way is to run PY library as an independent process.
Another way is to start PY as a C++ thread. 
The third way is to run Python engine as part of the C++. 
Which way is better?

No intention to access all the Python's code but only 
access APIs of a module.


From hans at zephyrfalcon.org  Fri Nov  5 18:33:10 2004
From: hans at zephyrfalcon.org (Hans Nowak)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 18:33:10 -0500
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>

John Machin wrote:

> Or is this a joke/troll?? I can't believe the "unimelb.edu.au"; surely
> a forgery.

Is it just me, or is the climate in c.l.py getting less friendly to 
newbies?  In any case, 
http://www.zoology.unimelb.edu.au/staff/nicholas.htm mentions Maurice 
Ling as an honor student.

-- 
Hans Nowak
http://zephyrfalcon.org/



From austin at maxtronic.com.tw  Thu Nov 11 08:08:41 2004
From: austin at maxtronic.com.tw (Austin)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:08:41 +0800
Subject: socket.error:(13,'Permission deied')
Message-ID: <4193644c@news.seeder.net>

........................
data = ....
self.broadcast_ip = 255.255.255.255

UDPSock.sendto(data,(self.broadcast_ip,36))
.........................


These codes run on Windows without errors and warnings.
But i excute that on Fedora Core 2, it shows the error
"socket.error:(13,'Permission deied')"
i try to disable the firewall and become a root but it doesn't work, either.

Does anyone have any suggestions ?




From asid at sympatico.ca  Thu Nov 11 08:59:31 2004
From: asid at sympatico.ca (Alex Sidorenko)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:59:31 -0500
Subject: socket.error:(13,'Permission deied')
References: <4193644c@news.seeder.net>
Message-ID: <7fKkd.29659$Z7.928089@news20.bellglobal.com>

Austin wrote:

> ........................
> data = ....
> self.broadcast_ip = 255.255.255.255
> 
> UDPSock.sendto(data,(self.broadcast_ip,36))
> .........................
> 
> 
> These codes run on Windows without errors and warnings.
> But i excute that on Fedora Core 2, it shows the error
> "socket.error:(13,'Permission deied')"
> i try to disable the firewall and become a root but it doesn't work,
> either.
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions ?

Broadcasting is a privileged operation on Unixes, you need to set
SO_BROADCAST flag. See manpage socket(7).

Hope this helps,
Alex


From mark.asbach at post.rwth-aachen.de  Mon Nov 22 18:25:59 2004
From: mark.asbach at post.rwth-aachen.de (Mark Asbach)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:25:59 +0100
Subject: Wrapping a C library in Python
References: <roy-99F088.20103518112004@reader1.panix.com>
	<e253918f.0411190823.25921d6b@posting.google.com>
	<roy-2665D7.13444420112004@reader1.panix.com>
	<hdnip9ey.fsf@python.net>
	<roy-24C5BE.07565522112004@reader1.panix.com>
	<bfh972-7o1.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<mailman.6699.1101144119.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gnogzb.1rj5ma5sd0l6aN%mark.asbach@post.rwth-aachen.de>

Hi Craig,

> Just out of interest, do you know if SWIG can be used to generate an
> extension module to provide interfaces to the API of an application that
> embeds a Python interpreter?

Why not?

We do that for the next generation of an open source
finite-element-toolkit driven by an embedded Python interpreter.

And it was really nice to see how easy it is to retro-fit new SWIG
wrapped code to already existing hand written wrappers and externally
developed Python wrappers (vtk). So in fact we were able to dramatically
reduce the time spent for writing wrappers and adaptor code just by
using SWIG.

What we needed wouldn't have been possible with Boost.Python and it
would also mean a longer compile time.

Mark


From 3d_4533212 at katamail.it  Wed Nov 24 04:32:25 2004
From: 3d_4533212 at katamail.it (3d)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 10:32:25 +0100
Subject: Vtk
Message-ID: <co1kfb$g9b$1@news.newsland.it>

Hi,

you have a information on the Vtk and its installation to use it with
python on windows?

thanks men



-- 

questo articolo e` stato inviato via web dal servizio gratuito 
http://www.newsland.it/news segnala gli abusi ad abuse at newsland.it




From pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com  Sat Nov  6 16:58:26 2004
From: pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com (Pekka Niiranen)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 23:58:26 +0200
Subject: Shortcut needed: avoiding temporary variables with regular
	expressions
Message-ID: <418d498f$0$12683$39db0f71@news.song.fi>

Hi there,

I am using regular expressions like this:

matcher = re.compile(r'(.*)\s(.*)', re.UNICODE)
tmp = matcher.search(mystring)
if tmp:
	myvariable = tmp.group(1)

The idea is that group(1) is accessed only if
it was found from 'mystring'. Is there a way
to avoid the usage of 'tmp' -variable?
Sure, I could try:

matcher = re.compile(r'(.*)\s(.*)', re.UNICODE)
if matcher.search(mystring):
	myvariable = matcher.search(mystring).group(1)

but then I am searching 'mystring' twice.

-pekka-


From rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it  Sat Nov  6 04:56:02 2004
From: rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it (gabriele renzi)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 09:56:02 GMT
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <Xns95996C7608C77cpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<878y9gbkh7.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<Xns95996C7608C77cpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>
Message-ID: <Sc1jd.19860$Es2.429050@twister2.libero.it>

Harald Massa ha scritto:
> Israel Raj T <rambam at bigpond.net.au> wrote in news:878y9gbkh7.fsf at pop-
> server.bigpond.net.au:
> 
> 
>>On the updated version at http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/craps.php,
>>Python beats at least two java implementations.
> 
> 
> Very interesting link, great ressource!!!
> 
> What really is disturbing: within the test "hash access" perl2 comes out 
> first compared with java.
> 
> A know that Python dictionaries are the most heavily used datastructure 
> (because it is allways used within Python itself), and from looking at the 
> sourcecode there is the line "with help from Raymund Hettinger"; so I am 
> very sure it is probably THE optimal coding.
> 
> So... string processing, regular expression, blablabla no problem; but why 
> second to perl2 in Hash-access ???

maybe because perl has been polished for more years :)
Anyway, 3 things worth noting about the shootou

- you won't *ever* write heapsort and things like that in python, 
obviously it is slow, and obviously you have'em builtin.
- there are some tricks like using numarray for matrix calculations
- the ranking system is named CRAP(s).



From http  Sun Nov  7 13:53:49 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Nov 2004 10:53:49 -0800
Subject: remove assert statement (Was: Re: PEP new assert idiom)
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr7n62t0v.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <Lmjjd.2124$Zl2.96@trndny01>
	<7xy8hep325.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.6055.1099832572.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10osqs5al7tii49@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <7xhdo1pk1u.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:
> I see assert as a statement of an invariant: each and every time
> I come here this *must* be true.  

Yes, that was the intention of the assert statement.  However, there's
a very great temptation to use it for a somewhat different purpose,
namely checking data validity.  When there's a great temptation to
misuse some feature to do X when it's really intended for Y, that's a
sign that it's time to add an equally convenient feature intended for
doing X.

> For me, an assert failing is a programing error in the caller, not
> in the method with the assert!  Trying to catch an assert is a misuse
> of what the statement provides.

There's a slight non-sequitur there.  Every large system contains
programming errors, and assert statements are a good way to detect the
errors.  If an assert fails and isn't caught, the system crashes.
Crashing a running system on detection of the slightest programming
error is not always an acceptable thing to do.  Sometimes you have to
log the error and try to recover from it, disable the feature where
the error happened until someone can figure out what went wrong, or
whatever; but not crash.  So you need to be able to catch assert
failures.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Nov 18 03:13:37 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 03:13:37 -0500
Subject: SQL Server stored prcedures with output parameters
In-Reply-To: <GcYmd.10930$nj.5627@lakeread01>
References: <HHWmd.10924$nj.1324@lakeread01> <GcYmd.10930$nj.5627@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <oSYmd.10931$nj.6308@lakeread01>

Steve Holden wrote:

> 
> Hmmm, following up, added another test to adodbapi to retrieve a value 
> from a table into an output parameter it works, so this puts the 
> suspicion on to the stored procedure. Since this was written by the 
> client I'll take a look at it later (when I'm back in the office) and 
> see what the problem might be.
> 
> happily-talking-away-to-myself-ly y'rs  - steve

However, the stored procedure below appears to consistently return zero 
for the link_id when called with:

columnist_id, url, title, description, link_id = \
	curs.callproc("sp_InsertArticle",
		(columnist_id, url, title, description, 0))

so maybe there really *is* something wrong. Or, hopefully, I'm just 
making a simple mistake in the calls? Whatever value is used as the 
fifth (output) parameter seems to get returned, despite the apparent 
change in the stored procedure.

Create PROCEDURE dbo.sp_InsertArticle
(
	@columnist_id int,
	@url varchar(255),
	@title varchar(99),
	@description text,
    	@link_id int OUTPUT
)
AS
BEGIN
	INSERT INTO link	(columnist_id,url,title,description)
	VALUES (@columnist_id, at url, at title, at description)

     SELECT @link_id = @@IDENTITY
END

GO

not-quite-so-happi-ly y'rs  - steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From dnovatchev at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  4 05:58:39 2004
From: dnovatchev at yahoo.com (Dimitre Novatchev)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 21:58:39 +1100
Subject: Python AST as XML
References: <1e015c2a.0410272209.3e831f94@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2uugb2F2emt2rU1@uni-berlin.de>


"Oleg Paraschenko" <olepar at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1e015c2a.0410272209.3e831f94 at posting.google.com...
> Hello,
>
> maybe of some interest:
>
> http://pysch.sourceforge.net/ast.html

This is definitely of interest.

An AST as any tree is a perfect fit for XSLT processing. Many people 
overlook the fact that XSLT operates on generic trees, which do not have to 
necessarily originate from an XML document.

My personal experience in implementing graph-processing algorithms in XSLT 
(e.g. Eulerisation of a graph -- the chinese postman and the N.Y street 
sweeper algorithms) shows that XSLT is efficient programming language for 
such problems -- similarly it will be efficient in rewriting and 
optimization.

Do keep the good work, Oleg!


Cheers,

Dimitre.

>
> [quote]
> XML can be considered as an external representation of in-memory
> tree-like structures, and XML-related standards - as methods of
> processing such data. Some types of applications may benefit
> from this approach. One of the examples are compilers with
> theirs parse trees.
>
> The Pysch distribution contains an example of representing Python
> parse trees (abstract syntax trees, AST) as XML and applying an
> XSLT transformation to these trees.
>
> At the moment the whole code should be considered as a toy,
> not as a production version. Anyway, it works.
>
> ...
> [/quote]
>
> --
> Oleg 




From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Tue Nov 30 17:12:12 2004
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:12:12 -0500
Subject: Closing files
In-Reply-To: <41ac4e7a$0$25785$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
References: <1gnz2kq.1jnqpi01tkznh0N%news+0409@henrikholm.com>
	<cofa4u$l9i$1@news.sap-ag.de> <iuGqd.1051$Tv6.749@read3.inet.fi>
	<cofh51$qk8$1@news.sap-ag.de>
	<41ac4e7a$0$25785$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <20041130221212.GA16019@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

> Daniel Dittmar wrote:
> >- that suggest a different solution; like declarations on local 
> >variables that say "call destructor when object goes out of scope"

I did not follow all of this thread (that precise subject reoccurs
once in a while, with some regularity), but I merely would like to
point out that objects never go "out of scope".  Only variables do,
and variables hold references to objects.  When the last reference to
an object disappears, only then the destructor is called.  With Python
(that particular Python that some call C-Python), this is guaranteed.

[Nick Coghlan]
> You may be interested in PEP 310 (reliable acquisition/release pairs): 
> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0310.html

Such a PEP might be useful for Jython or other Python-like languages.
Yet with Python, the real thing, the effect of the PEP is easily
achieved by relying on the timely finalisation of objects.  For example,
in Pymacs, the `let' and other various `save-' constructs of Emacs Lisp
are simulated through Let() objects, used like in this example:

    let = Let().push_excursion()
    if True :
         ... user code ...
    del let

Here, the `if' sole-purpose is to indent the "with" block, and so, to
make the whole construct more legible.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://pinard.progiciels-bpi.ca


From circulus at seznam.cz  Thu Nov  4 14:06:30 2004
From: circulus at seznam.cz (Pavel Starek)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 11:06:30 -0800
Subject: Python module for Mitsubishi PLC FX series - exist ?
Message-ID: <2d5d81ff.0411041106.2371c5b5@posting.google.com>

Hi all,
For first, excuse me poor english, i am a czech citizen.
I have question. Exist somewhere a python module for working with a
Mitsubishi PLC FX series + cooperation with (famous) pyserial module ?

Thanks for answers,
Pavel Starek


From behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de  Mon Nov  8 07:12:18 2004
From: behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 13:12:18 +0100
Subject: How come wxPython isn't in the standard library?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6096.1099870240.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1099858070.544710.146320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<1099858260.250679.61490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.6096.1099870240.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmnnr2$nt$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>

James Stroud schrieb:
> What am I missing here? Lets look at it from an END USER's perspective. I come 
> from a situation where I was sys-admin to where I am the 0 privelige user. I 
> wanted to install a python module. So I called in the sys-admin. He tried to 
> add it with RPM. This rpm depended on that rpm and that rpm depended on a 
> chicken which depended on an egg which, expectedly, depended on a 
> chicken--you can guess where this is going.

I guess your sys-admin just forgot to install apt-for-rpm first.

Stefan


From ch.pingel at web.de  Fri Nov 19 05:17:11 2004
From: ch.pingel at web.de (Christoph Pingel)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:17:11 +0100
Subject: regex-strategy for finding *similar* words?
In-Reply-To: <c76ff6fc.0411181813.57769139@posting.google.com>
References: <1100774319.18258.249.camel@bucket.localnet>
	<mailman.6541.1100780393.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cni5mo$d12$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<c76ff6fc.0411181813.57769139@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a0610050bbdc3768dc364@[80.139.60.165]>

>There
>are faster algorithms available than the dynamic-programming one --
>google "Heikki Hyyro". These allow you to preprocess your input word
>and then compare with multiple dictionary candidates in O(kn) instead
>of O(kmn) time where the input word has length m, and you compare with
>k dictionary words each of average length n.

John,

thanks for the rich input!
I found the Hyyro/Navarro algorithm, and this looks interesting. 
First I will give python's own difflib.SequenceMatcher class a try - 
the project here doesn't necessarily need the fastest algorithm, 
coding time is an issue however. I found that a match ratio slightly 
above 0.85 captures most of my misspelling cases without producing 
errors.

best,
Christoph





From someone at microsoft.com  Tue Nov 23 18:08:42 2004
From: someone at microsoft.com (Jive)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 23:08:42 GMT
Subject: A lock that times out but doesn't poll
References: <slrncq5vvl.61m.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <_pPod.3495362$yk.537691@news.easynews.com>

Ironic, isn't it?  The whole idea of a condition variable is to avoid
sleeping and polling.  The polling soaks up CPU cycles, and the sleeping
introduces latency that might not be acceptable for a given application.

I presented two versions of sleepless timed condition variables in this NG a
year or two ago.  They hooted me down like an English kuneegut.

One version used an alarm clock thread.  From a very quick glance at your
code, I presume that's what you've done.  The other used a C coded timed
lock, something that's not in standard Python.  Why, I wonder?  I can't
imagine there are many platforms where you can't implement such a thing.  I
showed a C extension for MS Windows.

I made my Python module a drop-in replacement for the current threading
module, BTW.  I am uncomfortable with the existing package not only because
it uses polling, ("the evil from which we flee"), but also because it's so
convoluted.  Reading it, I have a hard time proving to myself that it's
correct.  If the package I posted is still on the net somewhere, take a look
at it and see just how simple it can be.

Now they will taunt me a second time.




From djc at object-craft.com.au  Tue Nov  2 20:20:40 2004
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:20:40 +1100
Subject: Line buffering pipes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5688.1099091442.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5688.1099091442.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gqWhd.10054$pl.120209@nasal.pacific.net.au>

Shaun Jackman wrote:
> I'm reading from a tcpdump pipe. I want to receive one line from the
> pipe as soon as its available from tcpdump. Something is buffering the
> pipe though, so I am receiving nothing, then multiple lines in a big
> batch. I thought this was the inherent buffering of next(), but it
> affects readline too.
> 
> For example,
>     tcpdump = os.popen( 'sudo tcpdump', 'r')
> both
>     while True: print tcpdump.next(),
> and
>     while True: print tcpdump.readline(),
> buffer mutiple lines before printing.

My understanding is that the libc library linked to tcpdump queries the 
file it has as standard output and discovers a pipe.  It then decides to 
buffer output for efficiency.  So what you need to do is make sure that 
the tcpdump standard output is not a pipe.

Check out the pty module.  It will connect a psuedo tty as the tcpdump 
standard output.  This will prevent the libc from buffering.

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Nov  2 21:51:14 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:51:14 +1300
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
In-Reply-To: <cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> I'm no native speaker, so I maybe confused the meaning of permanent. In
> german, permanent not only means that things are enduring, but also that
> things are done on regular bases: "He permanently changed his cloth."

We would say "regularly", "frequently", "habitually", or
something like that. In English, "permanently" means
"once and for all".

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From len-1 at telus.net  Thu Nov 25 12:57:44 2004
From: len-1 at telus.net (Lenard Lindstrom)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 17:57:44 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.23.07.09.08.229463@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<zn18e7pm.fsf@telus.net> <30ijkhF31dg9sU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<oehnyvka.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.25.05.36.21.76065@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3byxq0a1.fsf@telus.net>

Paul Robson <autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk> writes:

> On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:04:03 +0000, Lenard Lindstrom wrote:
> 
> > Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> writes:
> > 
> >> Lenard Lindstrom wrote:
> >> > So Delphi is definitely not BASIC-derived. It is BASIC-like in that various
> >> > basic dialects, including QBasic, came to support the structured programming
> >> > that Pascal was designed from the beginning to teach.
> >> 
> >> So it would be more accurate to say that those Basic
> >> dialects are, in those respects, Pascal-like...
> >> 
> > By saying Delphi is BASIC-like I just mean that many languages have come
> > to resemble each, having adopted many of the same features. But it was
> > definitely Basic that did most of the adopting. So yes, more precisely,
> > Basic has become more Pascal-like. I was just giving the patent applicants
> > a minor benefit of a doubt.
> 
> I believe the author of .NET is the bloke that designed Turbo Pascal, so
> it's hardly surprising :)

Is this Andreas Heiljberg which you mentioned in an earlier posting to
this thread?

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl3163358907d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&selm=pan.2004.11.23.07.09.08.229463%40autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk

Lenard Lindstrom
<len-l at telus.net>



From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Nov 17 15:31:34 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:31:34 -0800
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
	number of output arguments)
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.6491.1100708505.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <donn-DC8989.12313317112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.6491.1100708505.5135.python-list at python.org>,
 Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
> Greg Ewing wrote:
> > Jeremy Bowers wrote:
> > 
> >> Generally, returning a tuple is either a sign that your return value
> >> should be wrapped up in a class, or the function is doing too much.
> > 
> > 
> > While I suspect you may be largely right, I
> > find myself wondering why this should be so. 
> 
> *Is* it largely right? I don't think so. As you said, there doesn't seem to be 
> anything "wrong" with passing multiple pieces of data _into_ a function, so why 
> should we assume that complex data passing should be so one way?

What's up with keyword arguments, then?  I don't think you can argue
that on one hand keyword arguments are a valuable feature, but plain
by-order tuples are a totally satisfactory interface on the other hand.

> One of my biggest pet peeves about programming in C, for example, is that you 
> are often forced to wrap stuff up into a structure just to pass data back and 
> forth - you create the structure, populate it, send it, and then pull out the 
> data.
> 
> In many, many cases this is nothing more than poor-man's tuple unpacking, and 
> you end up with lots of extra work and lots of one-off structures. Also 
> annoying 
> is the use of "out" parameters, which is again basically manual tuple 
> unpacking.

Take stat(), which for those who haven't used it reports a number
of characteristics of a file.  It's not the ideal example, because
it's big (10 items) and it's already "fixed" (has attributes like
a class instance.)  But its worst problem has nothing to do with
the size, or whether or not the items can be referred to by name.
As long as they can be referred to by position, we're stuck with
the exact same items on all platforms, in all situations, for the
rest of eternity.  Whether some of them might not really be supported
on some platforms, or it omits some useful values on others. It's
not very flexible.  C stat(2) doesn't have this problem.

I don't know if I'd go along with "largely right", but it could
fall somewhere between "some truth in it" and "completely whacked."

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Mon Nov 15 10:56:46 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:56:46 -0200
Subject: Authoritative documentation on packages, import & ihooks
Message-ID: <864d3709041115075629d15045@mail.gmail.com>

I am looking for information on packages & import hooks, including
simple examples on how to implement a simple import hook. Quick
googling turns out some documents, such as:

-- PEP 302:
   http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0302.html

-- What's new on Python 2.3:
   http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.4/whatsnew/section-pep302.html

-- Import SIG:
   http://www.python.org/sigs/import-sig/

-- PyDoc for the ihooks module:
   http://pydoc.org/2.3/ihooks.html

However, after reading them, I ended up more confused than before.
There are lots of references to the ihooks standard module, but there
is no documentation about it on the standard Python docs. The "Modules
That Needs Docs" Wiki entry
(http://www.python.org/moin/ModulesThatNeedDocs) lists ihooks and
imputils, but noone has volunteered to do it yet (worse, not even a
bug report was filled; this is something that I'm going to do).
Packages are also not documented (there is still a reference to an
essay from 1.5 days on the Python 2.3 docs). It's a messy state of
affairs.

For what I could see, the import system went over several iterations
and patches since the 1.5 release (when packages were added). It's now
hard to understand what is the preferred hooking mechanism as far as
Python 2.4 (and future versions) are concerned. For this reason, I
would like to know if there is any document which may be considered
"authoritative" for the import system (besides ihooks.py and
import.c). If *all* that exists is the source code, well, I guess I'll
have to read it. But anyway... pointers to simple examples also are
helpful. Thanks in advance.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From mwm at mired.org  Tue Nov 16 15:58:17 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 14:58:17 -0600
Subject: Announce: csv_xs.py
References: <BDB81C1E.1C8E%cme@lampcoders.net>
	<mailman.6229.1100114270.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<BDB82EB7.1CA7%cme@lampcoders.net>
	<c718a6cf.0411160957.2a031627@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <x7k6slmryu.fsf@guru.mired.org>

jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1) writes:

> > Can you explain what you liked about Perl's csv_xz package and/or didn't
> > like about Python's csv module that motivated you to write your own class?
> > 
> > Thx,
> > 
> > Skip
> 
> I'm a native perl speaker, but at my last work i had to learn python, to
> edit some zope thinks (quite difficult).
> 
> Now i wanna learn python for me and i often work with csv files with perl
> but now i wanna develop some python programs for csv file working.
> In this task i would extend the csv module for my needs but there i get any
> errors, so it was easier for me to develop a class which is like the perl
> one.
> 
> hope it is ok
> Chris

If I interpret this correctly as "get many errors", then you're
throwing away one of the benefits Python has over Perl. Perl silently
does something implicit with errors in your data. Python requires that
they be dealt with explicitly. It may be that Perl does the right
thing for you. But in many cases, Perl *doesn't* do the right
thing. Python lets you decide how to deal with them, and makes that
explicit.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Tue Nov 30 10:17:47 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:17:47 -0500
Subject: module imports and memory usage
In-Reply-To: <coi223$ahu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <coi223$ahu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <qYSdne6d05SGEjHcRVn-sA@giganews.com>

Brad Tilley wrote:


> Also, is there a way to load and unload modules as they are needed. I 
> have some scripts that sleep for extended periods during a while loop 
> and I need to be as memory friendly as possible. I can post a detailed 
> script that currently uses ~ 10MB of memory if anyone is interested.

I believe that the rule of thumb for Python, C, Java
and probably most other portable languages is that
freed memory cannot be released back to the
operating system. The best you can expect (usually true)
is  that allocating the same amount later will not
increase the memory footprint.

So the only way to write memory efficient programs
might be to:
  1. either not load all the data
  2. run the data intensive routines as a separate process
that terminates and exists

Istvan.


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Nov 18 12:18:02 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 12:18:02 -0500
Subject: PyChecker "self is argument in staticmethod"
In-Reply-To: <9e5ea2c4.0411180909.35db39d5@posting.google.com>
References: <9e5ea2c4.0411180909.35db39d5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cnilj5$29g$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Olaf Meding wrote:
> What does the below PyChecker warning mean?
> 
> More importantly, is there a way to suppress it?
> 
>  PyChecker warning:
>   ..\src\phaseid\integration.py:21: self is argument in staticmethod
> 
> My best guess is that the warning is related to PyChecker not
> supporting C++ extensions.

Sounds like a pretty wild guess to me. ;-)

c:\>c:\a\python23\python.exe 
c:\a\python23\Lib\site-packages\pychecker\checker.py test.py
Processing test...

Warnings...

test.py:2: self is argument in staticmethod

c:\>type test.py
class A:
     def func(self, blah):
         pass

     func = staticmethod(func)


Does your code look anything like the above?  The warning message
is very explicit about what is wrong here...  a staticmethod
should not really have a "self" parameter.

-Peter


From NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it  Wed Nov 10 17:37:50 2004
From: NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it (Manlio Perillo)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:37:50 GMT
Subject: ConfigParser
References: <nrr3p0d03b1p2pcvk7irgbm1k0nurndehj@4ax.com>
	<35t4p0lou2lmcigaj2ic1fv9b253d5nq6k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <tv55p0ltk5238k9bsqcnb4sv5j27vtpjnc@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:09:39 +0100, Ivo Woltring <Python at IvoNet.nl>
wrote:

>On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:39:27 GMT, Manlio Perillo
><NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it> wrote:
>
>>Regards.
>>
>>Since sections in CongiParser files are delimited by [ and ], why
>>there is not an escape (and unescape) function for escaping
>>&, [, and ] characters to &amp;, &lbrack; and &rbrack; ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Thanks   Manlio Perillo
>
>another discovery:
>
>the get() DOES translate &lbrack; etc back to '[' etc, so it seameth
>to me that the whole question is mute ;-))
>


What version are you using?
In Python 2.3.3 get does not handles &lbrack; (or I did not understand
what you are saying).



Thanks and regards   Manlio Perillo


From cme at lampcoders.net  Wed Nov 10 13:27:26 2004
From: cme at lampcoders.net (Christian Meissner)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:27:26 +0100
Subject: Announce: csv_xs.py
Message-ID: <BDB81C1E.1C8E%cme@lampcoders.net>

Hi Folk,

i had developed my own csv class which is inspired by perls csv_xs module.

All interrested people can find the class on

    http://www.linux-scene.de/files/python/

Hope it helps, you'll be pleased to extend the class

Chris



From pdmurray at ntlworld.com  Thu Nov 11 16:52:40 2004
From: pdmurray at ntlworld.com (Peter Murray)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:52:40 -0000
Subject: Sorting email addresses by domain
Message-ID: <20041111215248.LFTO6712.aamta04-winn.mailhost.ntl.com@Bender>

I did send a thank you but it doesn't seem to have shown up, so thank you
all for your help! The different ways of tackling this problem have really
helped. Some of the ideas were similar to the way I tried, but a lot simpler
and yes, more elegant.

One thing this did show me was how the list.sort() method works. In the
O'Reilly Learning Python book there is only one example of actually passing
in a function and for me it didn't really explain how it works. But if I
understand it correctly now, you give the sort() method a function that will
act on two values and return a -1, 0 or 1, and because the function you give
it may play around with the items, the actually list that sort() processes
stays the same. So you give the sort method a function *object*, is that
right? There is no () on the end of the function so it isn't a call. The
sort() method calls this function with the list members.

I think I have it!

Thanks again all.

Pete.





From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Nov  5 11:22:48 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 16:22:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: deref in a string into an operand
References: <pan.2004.11.05.08.00.19.364836@yahoo.com>
	<pan.2004.11.05.10.09.21.355122@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041105T172122-505@post.gmane.org>

John Doe <atterdan <at> yahoo.com> writes:
> 
> So using a builtin object like 'x' ...
> 
> 	x = 5
> 	attr = '__mul__' 
> 
> 	print x.__getattribute__( attr )( 5 )
> 	25
> 
> My program will store the operand as '__mul__' instead of '*', along with
> a health bit of comment.

You also might consider just storing the operator.<op> methods in an appropriate
dictionary:

>>> import operator
>>> operator_map = {'+':operator.add, '-':operator.sub}
>>> operator_map['+'](1, 2.0)
3.0

This allows you to call the add function whatever you want.

Steve



From rkern at ucsd.edu  Tue Nov  9 17:33:19 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 14:33:19 -0800
Subject: ANN: IPython 0.6.4 is out.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6171.1100021758.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6129.1099948743.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmpsam$l3i$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<mailman.6171.1100021758.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmrgjg$7hf$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Fernando Perez wrote:

> Thanks!  That is indeed my intention, so I'll probably follow your advice.  But
> will this mean that unsuspecting souls using CVS will get HEAD automatically? 
> If that's the case, I'll add a nice warning about HEAD becoming _really_
> unstable for a while, so I don't burn anyone.  So far HEAD has been the place
> for users to get cutting-edge bugfixes, so at least I should warn them that
> this may change in the future.

You could also leave CVS HEAD as it is and hop on the SVN bandwagon for 
the new version.

Come on! You know you want to!

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From phleum_nospam at chello.se  Sun Nov 21 13:38:27 2004
From: phleum_nospam at chello.se (Carl)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:38:27 +0100
Subject: How can I interrupt os.system(cmd)?
Message-ID: <Ei5od.1690$3N5.841@amstwist00>

Dear friends,

I have written a small Python program that executes "cmd" via
os.system(cmd).

My problem is that "cmd" runs on forever.

More specifically, I want to run "cmd" for one hour on a regular day-to-day
basis by using crontab as a scheduler.

What options do I have to control execution of external programs from
Python?

Carl



From mwm at mired.org  Thu Nov  4 22:13:31 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 21:13:31 -0600
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com> <2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmbtep$aen$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<mailman.5891.1099530239.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <x7mzxxt2ck.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> writes:

> JCM <joshway_without_spam <at> myway.com> writes:
>> 
>> > Definition 1 is the definition most commonly used in Programming
>> > Languages literature....  However, for
>> > all intents and purposes, it is only applicable to statically typed
>> > languages; no one on the list could come up with a dyamically typed
>> > language that allowed bit-reinterpretation.
>> 
>> Assembly language.  The types of values are implied by what
>> instructions you use.
>
> I'm sure some people would argue that assembly language is untyped (not
> statically or dynamically typed) and that the operations are defined on bits,
> but this is definitely the best example I've seen.  Thanks!

The previously mentioned BCPL has the exact same property. For that
matter, early versions of C used to allow it to a large degree. I've
actually compiled programs written as "char *main = { ... }".

To me, a dynamically typed language is one where objects - rather than
variables - have a type attached.

          <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Sun Nov 28 02:30:19 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 07:30:19 GMT
Subject: UML and OO design tool with Python support
Message-ID: <f8fqd.47331$KQ2.46722@fe2.texas.rr.com>

I just found out that my favorite UML modeling tool, Enterprise Architect,
has just released a new version, *with* Python code support.  You can
download EA at http://www.sparxsystems.com.au.  It is not free, but I think
it is very reasonably priced for the features it provides (under $200 gives
you good UML graphical modeling, including sequence and class diagrams, with
code reverse engineering and round-tripping, vs. $000's for comparable
Rational environment).

Well, as it turns out, the Python support is still a bit buggy but I have
already gotten good mileage from this tool in other applications, most
notably reverse engineering C++ and C# code, so the Python additions are
icing on the cake.  But it is certainly another reassuring note, to see the
inclusion of Python support into this commercial software development tool.

I've already started to forward bug reports for some of the Python import
errors.  Perhaps if they get more feedback from other Python users, it will
help reinforce their opinion of Pythonistas as a valuable target market
segment.

-- Paul


Note: I am *not* an employee or in any way connected with the supplier of
this code, other than as a satistifed customer.

Note2: the Python support is not an obvious product feature.  It requires
installation of a separate (free) add-in, downloaded from the Sparxsystems
web site.  The add-in must be separately "add-in"ed to each project, too,
instead of just being a globally installed plug-in.  My first couple of
attempts failed at completely reverse engineering my pyparsing module,
although I did get a nice first-pass class inheritance diagram for PIL.  We
take what we can get...




From sridharinfinity at gmail.com  Sun Nov 21 10:34:55 2004
From: sridharinfinity at gmail.com (Sridhar  R)
Date: 21 Nov 2004 07:34:55 -0800
Subject: Gnome version of Idle?
In-Reply-To: <992f396f.0411202018.1edbc6d0@posting.google.com>
References: <992f396f.0411202018.1edbc6d0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1101051295.435416.307320@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

If you ask me, aliased fonts are better for coding.

Gtk+ layer could be added to Idle as an *optional* UI layer, so that
idle could be distributed with python without any fear of dependencies
(tkinter is enough for platforms like windows, ...)
May be you could contribute code to the idle guys :)



From deepak.sarda at gmail.com  Mon Nov  8 00:23:10 2004
From: deepak.sarda at gmail.com (Deepak Sarda)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 13:23:10 +0800
Subject: checking a thread has started
In-Reply-To: <418da3e0$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
References: <mailman.6001.1099749512.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<qliv52-mlq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<418d3323$1_2@omega.dimensional.com>
	<mailman.6030.1099794009.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418da3e0$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <eaac783a0411072123245182a6@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Michael. Thanks for the detailed response..

On 6 Nov 2004 21:26:08 -0700, Michael Fuhr <mfuhr at fuhr.org> wrote:
> You can examine os.environ['GATEWAY_INTERFACE'] to see how your
> script is run: the value should be "CGI/1.1" if you're running
> via CGI and "Python-CGI/1.1" if you're under mod_python.  This
> environment variable probably won't be set if you run the script
> from the command line, so use has_key() or trap KeyError to avoid
> exceptions.
> 

It give 'CGI/1.1' which means no mod_python

> What do you mean "runs as a local user"?  CGI programs usually run
> as whatever user the web server runs as, although it's possible to
> have them run as the script's owner (e.g., by setting up suEXEC).
> 

Yes, it's using the suEXEC mechanism. The script is in my home folder
so it get's executed as my uid/gid.

> 
> That doesn't make sense given the description of StartServers.
> Besides, as I recall, Apache 1.3.27, which you said you were using,
> doesn't even use threads -- each instance of the web server is run
> in a separate process.  Have you tested your hypothesis by altering
> the value of StartServers and checking whether your script behaves
> differently?

I couldn't check this yet as the sys admin is not available. but
something related is there in the mail below.

> > The program _always_ successfully creates and completes  execution of
> > exactly seven new threads leaving the remaining eight requested
> > threads in no man's land!
> 
> How are you determining which threads are starting and which aren't?

Just seeing if the run() is called - with a print. 

> 
> > So there must be some relation between apache and the script. Also, as
> > I said earlier, when run through a shell as the same user - the script
> > works perfectly fine.
> 
> Something's going on but we lack sufficent evidence to say what.
> We haven't seen your code yet -- could you post the smallest possible
> script that demonstrates the problem?
> 
> 

The following script always works for threads less than 8. Increase it
beyond that and it almost always fails. I say almost always because
sometimes it manages to run. But it fails almost 98% of the time
(unscientific observation!). The key thing is the os.system() call.
Without that, everything works fine. Also - if I start the threads
just after creating them - then the success rate become 98% (again -
guess).

#!/usr/bin/python2.2
import sys, os, threading

class Worker(threading.Thread):
    def __init__(self, index):
        self._index = index
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)
        print "Made object", self._index
        sys.stdout.flush()

    def run(self):
        print "Ran thread with index", self._index
        sys.stdout.flush()
        os.system("date")
        sys.stdout.flush()
        Worker.count += 1

if __name__ == '__main__':
    sys.stderr = sys.stdout
    print "Content-type: text/plain\n"
    sys.stdout.flush()

    Worker.count = 0

    tlist = []
    for i in range(10):
        t = Worker(i)
        #t.start()
        tlist.append(t)

    for t in tlist:
       t.start()

    for t in tlist:
        t.join()

    print "Count:", Worker.count


I'll experiment with the other suggestions offered and get back soon.


-- 

Online: http://www.antrix.net/journal/


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 18 23:41:28 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 20:41:28 -0800
Subject: don't NaN & infinities hide FP errors
References: <940ee3e8.0411170130.31d247@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.18.01.49.05.537966@jerf.org>
	<419bbb08$0$531$a1866201@visi.com>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0411182041.74321118@posting.google.com>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote in message news:<419bbb08$0$531$a1866201 at visi.com>...
> On 2004-11-18, Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:
> Let's say you've got a bunch of process control modules. Each
> of them takes a set of input values and produces a set of
> outputs.
> 
> Now let's say one of the inputs fails (no valid value is
> available).  You can just shut down the whole refinery, you've
> got to try to keep going as best you can.  The easiest way to
> do that is to feed a NaN in on the invalid input, and let it
> propogate through the network of modules.  The outputs that
> don't depend on the invalid input remain valid.  The outputs
> that do depend on the invalid input are NaNs.  
> 
> At the output end of things you don't have to do all sorts of
> logic to figure out which outputs are valid and which ones
> aren't -- all you have to do is decide what to do when each
> output is a NaN.

I understand. But I wasn't saying NaN should be removed, only that
arithmetic operations shouldn't produce it; you will still be free to
explicitly set a variable to NaN if you don't have valid input.

Besides, Python seems to raise exceptions instead of generating NaNs
or infinities, at least on my machine (Linux, GCC 3.3.2, Python
2.3.3). Doesn't that support my view?


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Nov 19 16:48:20 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:48:20 -0800
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <3073pnF2rf1v9U1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>	<cnlgv2$vc$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6616.1100893198.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3073pnF2rf1v9U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <10psqa2c5o4vr19@corp.supernews.com>

Peter Maas wrote:

> Isnot is semantically equivalent to the inequality operator which is
> some hundred years old. I doubt that this can be an approved patent,
> even under the liberal patent US laws.


Maybe it's not a technically *valid* patent, but that doesn't mean it 
can't be approved.  The US  patent system has become appallingly lazy 
about checking for things like prior art and obviousness.  (After all, 
we're talking about the system that approved a patent on "one-click 
purchasing"....)

The sad thing about this is that these patents can be challenged in 
courts... but only if you can afford the legal budget necessary.  And 
big corporations can afford to defend these patents, regardless of their 
legal viability, well enough to prevent all but the most determined (and 
well-heeled) challengers from actually getting a judgement on the actual 
merits of the case.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From cjw at sympatico.ca  Tue Nov 16 07:19:57 2004
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 07:19:57 -0500
Subject: Social Commentary on Open Source
Message-ID: <4199F06D.3060503@sympatico.ca>

These papers from a recent Paris workshop on FLOSS might be of interest 
to some c.l.p folk.

          http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue9_11/index.html

Colin W.


From onurb at xiludom.gro  Tue Nov  2 18:27:07 2004
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 00:27:07 +0100
Subject: general class functions
In-Reply-To: <4186f23d$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>
	<4186f23d$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <418815ca$0$9247$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Kent Johnson a ?crit :
> syd wrote:
> 
>> In my project, I've got dozens of similar classes with hundreds of
>> description variables in each.  In my illustrative example below, I
>> have a Library class that contains a list of Nation classes.  In one
>> case, I might want a Library class with only Nations of with the
>> continent variable "Europe", and so I'll do something like
>> library.getContinent('Europe') which will return a Library() instance
>> with only European nations.  Similarly, I could also want a Library()
>> instance with only 'small' size nations.
>>
>> My question follows: is there a way I can make a general function for
>> getting a subclass with my specific criteria?  For instance, can I
>> pass in an equivalence test or something like that?  I have hundreds
>> of variables like "nation", "continent", and so forth, and do want to
>> write a separate "get______" function for each.
> 
> 
> You can use getattr to read the Nation attributes by name. Add this 
> method to Library:
>   def getMatches(self,attribute, value):
>     library=Library()
>     for nation in self.list:
>       if getattr(nation, attribute) == value:
>         library.add(nation)
>     return library
> 
> Now you can call
> print library.getMatches('continent', 'Europe').getNameList()
> print library.getMatches('continent', 'Europe').getMatches('size', 
> 'small').getNameList()

<just for the fun...>

You could make it even more simple - and avoid creating useless 
instances of Library and Nation - with keyword arguments:

class Library:
   [...]
   def getAll(self, **kwargs):
     library=Library()
     for nation in self.list:
       keep = True
       for attribute, value in kwargs.items():
         if not getattr(nation, attribute) == value:
           keep = false
           break
       if keep :
         library.add(nation)
     return library

print library.getAll(continent='Europe').getNameList()
print library.getAll(continent='Europe', size='small').getNameList()

This is and 'and' search, you could also have an 'or' search method:

   def getAny(self, **kwargs):
     library=Library()
     for nation in self.list:
       for attribute, value in kwargs.items():
         if getattr(nation, attribute) == value:
           library.add(nation)
           break
     return library

print library.getAny(continent='Europe', size='small').getNameList()

and then a more generic search:
   def getMatches(self, op, **kwargs):
     fun = {'or': self.getAny, 'and' : self.getAll}.get(op)
     return fun(**kwargs):

print library.getMatches('and',
                          continent='Europe',
                          size='small').getNameList()

print library.getMatches('or',
                          continent='Europe',
                          size='small').getNameList()

</just for the fun...>

Bruno


From austin at maxtronic.com.tw  Tue Nov  2 01:13:21 2004
From: austin at maxtronic.com.tw (Austin)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 14:13:21 +0800
Subject: wxPython frame
Message-ID: <41872581$1@news.seeder.net>

In tkinter, the dialogs  has the function grab_set(). That means disable
other windows while it's open.
Is there any function like that in wxPython. I want to use it on my frame.
For example, a.py is main frame. There is a button "config" to open
b.py(config frame).
If the function exists in wxPython, i could put that in b.py when b.py is
open and we couldn't
click a.py. Or any other ways to avoid click a.py when b.py is open.

Thanks a lot.






From bowman at montana.com  Sun Nov 21 11:52:05 2004
From: bowman at montana.com (bowman)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 09:52:05 -0700
Subject: Detecting memory leaks
References: <JpUnd.3357144$yk.521533@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <30bv7bF2v8js0U1@uni-berlin.de>

Jive wrote:

> The short form of the question is, how can I trace memory usage
> (preferably from C) with an eye toward finding out if I'm leaking memory?

Have you looked at efence or dmalloc? I don't know if either could be ported 
to your RTOS. efence depends on the hardware and both make assumptions on 
the memory allocation schemes. 



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Tue Nov 30 14:29:07 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:29:07 -0800
Subject: documentation for PyArg_ParseTupleAndKeywords
In-Reply-To: <8Q1rd.490968$D%.41813@attbi_s51>
References: <NGOqd.485972$D%.108119@attbi_s51>
	<c76ff6fc.0411300311.62f97ea4@posting.google.com>
	<8Q1rd.490968$D%.41813@attbi_s51>
Message-ID: <41acdc96$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Steven Bethard wrote:
> Thanks for the pointers.  What's the "doco gadget" you're talking about?

I conclude from this question that you are not using a Windows python.
I suspect, therefore, the answer is Gilda Ratner's ".... Never mind."

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From gergina at abv.bg  Mon Nov 22 14:52:06 2004
From: gergina at abv.bg (Nickolay)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 11:52:06 -0800
Subject: if need small python executable
Message-ID: <77969915.0411221152.6f293b6f@posting.google.com>

it's easy to create small executable from python code, when using
assembler compilers. I ask you if need it?


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Nov 11 22:26:13 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:26:13 -0500
Subject: Iterating over PDF documents
In-Reply-To: <cmv9j2$et5$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <cmv9j2$et5$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <cn1afo$71p$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Peter Maas wrote:
> I'm trying to edit a PDF document line-wise. This is more difficult
> than I thought, because PDF uses a mixture of all line terminators

It should also be pretty difficult because PDFs are binary, not
text...

(They might contain a whole lot of stuff that looks like text, but
there are binary sections mixed into many of them, and I believe
the header at least is binary.  The sample files I'm looking at
definitely are, in any case.  Your solution could not be general.)

-Peter


From jerry at jerrysievers.com  Wed Nov 24 08:30:19 2004
From: jerry at jerrysievers.com (Jerry Sievers)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 08:30:19 -0500
Subject: Transfer data from webpage form to database
References: <41a36ab7$0$23056$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net>
	<m33bz05u3p.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
	<41a38f13$0$23068$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net>
	<liNod.42476$Z14.17919@news.indigo.ie>
	<mailman.6735.1101248667.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41a3ccf2$0$29450$ba624c82@nntp06.dk.telia.net>
	<41a3d863$0$29440$ba624c82@nntp06.dk.telia.net>
	<41a3de0b$0$29437$ba624c82@nntp06.dk.telia.net>
	<1101268631.7318.11.camel@flmrroach.okmaybe.com>
Message-ID: <m3sm6zfk7o.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>

Mark Roach <mrroach at okmaybe.com> writes:

> On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 02:16 +0100, Pete..... wrote:
> 
> That syntax doesn't look right. I think you were closer with your
> previous attempt. This is slightly more correct
> 
> cur.execute('''INSERT INTO persons (name, surname, username, password) 
>     VALUES('%s','%s', '%s', '%s')''' % (form[name].value, 
>     form[surname].value, form[username].value, form[password].value))
> 
> (Note the single quotes around the %s)
> 
> The real problem with this code is that you are letting the user of your
> website inject whatever SQL they want directly into your command. I am
> not sure if this works for pypgsql, but with psycopg the safe way to do
> this is

If you are using pygresql the execute() method allows an optional dict
as arg2 and if provided, will be quoted according to data types and
the LHS string integrated with the dict as if by the % operator.

cur.execute('query')
cur.execute('query with hand quoted args %s' % (foo))
cur.execute('query with args quoted by API %(name1)s, %(name2)d',dict)

String types will get wrapped in single quotes and have embedded
single quotes escaped, the most common use but other types such as
datetime will get special treatment as well.

I agree with you.  Any up to date API should have this capability
which can always be overridded in an extreme case.

Bye

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Sievers   305 854-3001 (home)     WWW ECommerce Consultant
                305 321-1144 (mobile	http://www.JerrySievers.com/


From ian at kirbyfooty.com  Wed Nov 17 18:36:43 2004
From: ian at kirbyfooty.com (Ian Cook)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 15:36:43 -0800
Subject: ZipFile - How to update an existing zip file
Message-ID: <8cf64c3d.0411171536.76f16538@posting.google.com>

Hi,
I'm new to python so please excuse me if this is a 'dumb' question.

I want to use the ZipFile module to UPDATE, rather than append, or
create a new zip file.

Does anyone know how this can be done?

This is a snippet of the code I have now..

                try:
                    zf = zipfile.ZipFile(zfname,mode='a')
                except:
                    zf = zipfile.ZipFile(zfname,mode='w')
                    
                for name in cutflist:
                    fp = os.path.join(root,name)
                    print "adding ",fp,"...",
                    compresstype = zipfile.ZIP_DEFLATED
                    if zipfile.is_zipfile(fp):
                        compresstype = zipfile.ZIP_STORED
                    zf.write(fp,compress_type=compresstype)
                    print 'done.'



Thanks in advance.

Ian Cook
(Freeware author of Kirby Alarm And Task Scheduler)
http://www.kirbyfooty.com/


From davecook at nowhere.net  Mon Nov 22 14:53:17 2004
From: davecook at nowhere.net (Dave Cook)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 19:53:17 GMT
Subject: Help for newbie
References: <419f06a8$0$32335$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<slrncq1so1.4m6.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
	<41a10093$0$4569$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <slrncq4gtd.5s1.davecook@localhost.localdomain>

On 2004-11-21, Leuk <jlnespoulous at netscape.net> wrote:
> Thanks very much for your information
> But I would like to know how I'll write and retreive my objets when my 
> system will be written in Java. At what time or how I'll switch to Python.

Are you planning on using Jython?  

http://www.jython.org

In that case, you might want to find a Java solution that you can use with
Jython.  I've used hibernate + hsql from Jython, but that may be overkill
for your application.

Dave Cook



From uche at ogbuji.net  Tue Nov 23 09:34:23 2004
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 06:34:23 -0800
Subject: Identifying exceptions that can be raised
References: <cVdnd.7986$tS4.4873@trndny09>
	<mailman.6579.1100837821.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<6Rknd.6671$%M4.4203@trndny08>
	<cnmcek$rju$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<JQNnd.2125$hJ6.1416@trndny01>
	<cnrli6$j1o$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<roy-E384F5.07475422112004@reader1.panix.com>
	<cnso32$k1f$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <d116fbae.0411230634.b639bd5@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<cnso32$k1f$1 at utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>...
> Roy Smith wrote:
> > Computer Science is not an experimental science.  
> 
> Again, you've said nothing that in any way justifies this statement.
> 
> I'm not saying CS _is_ an experimental science, but I think
> I would say that your implied statement that one should *never*
> do this is fundamentally flawed.
> 
> Ultimately, however, this is a silly argument, because neither
> you nor I write code solely in the manner I described, nor
> in the manner you appear to be recommending (i.e. going exclusively
> based on the documentation), so I'm not even sure why you
> wrote...

Personally, I shared Mr. Smith's reaction to your posting.  I've seen
a lot of claims of the magical fairy dust of test-first programming
(an idea whose basic soundness I agree with), but the idea that such
prophetic pre-testing is a sounder way of learning an API properly
than reading the documentation tops them all.

I believe now your claims that you didn't mean anything so radical,
but you can hardly blame Mr. Smith from reading what you wrote,
originally and coming to the natural conclusion from comprehension of
your prose.  The reason why he wrote is to make it clear to anyone
else who respects you as an intelligent commentator on Python
programming (this was a thread started by a noob question, after all)
that in reality that reading the documentation should generally be the
first step in comprehending code.  I think he achieved this aim by
pointing out that the very example you trumpeted proved the overriding
value of documentation.


-- 
Uche Ogbuji                                    Fourthought, Inc.
http://uche.ogbuji.net    http://4Suite.org    http://fourthought.com
A hands-on introduction to ISO Schematron -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/edu/x-dw-xschematron-i.html
Schematron abstract patterns -
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-stron.html
Wrestling HTML (using Python) -
http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2004/09/08/pyxml.html
XML's growing pains - http://www.adtmag.com/article.asp?id=10196
XMLOpen and more XML Hacks -
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-think27.html
A survey of XML standards -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-stand4/


From sam at three60.com  Wed Nov  3 08:12:34 2004
From: sam at three60.com (Sam)
Date: 3 Nov 2004 05:12:34 -0800
Subject: Should I learn Python?
References: <624a388a.0411021328.5ac41f4c@posting.google.com>
	<418807d0$0$19691$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <624a388a.0411030512.3cf84547@posting.google.com>

So you're saying, in order to write smart, clean, well structured,
readable code, and have fun doing so, I'm going to have to drop PHP
and use Python?

I'm not really interested in finding a replacement for PHP, it works
just fine for me.

I apologize for not phrasing my questions clearly, I wasn't looking
for critisisms of PHP or why I shouldn't use it. What i'm really
after, is given that I use PHP to develop sites currently, what types
of situations would/could i use Python in web development? Is there a
point when learning Python, that I'll say to myself "why use php?".
Thanks


From agriff at tin.it  Mon Nov  1 03:52:28 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 08:52:28 GMT
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
References: <1gmfz0k.a3xefz1xzms61N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5689.1099092886.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<nl07o0lr3dvunoq2j0avuvmftnc837fvoc@4ax.com>
	<ad052e5c.0410312112.32869dcf@posting.google.com>
	<idnbo0tctv4f3u23a3ejvpg5qqegaf68jk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <uqtbo019ur3crjkuqjsnao00gvc0vndiq0@4ax.com>

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 07:21:09 GMT, Andrea Griffini <agriff at tin.it>
wrote:

>This is a bit shorter ...
>
>roman = lambda x: "".join(["".join(map(lambda c: "IVXLCDM"[ord(c) -
>ord("A")+2*N], "/A/AA/AAA/AB/B/BA/BAA/BAAA/AC".split("/")[x//10**N %
>10])) for N in (3, 2, 1, 0)])

No idea why I initially thougt about using ASCII codes... this
is simpler and shorter...

roman = lambda x: "".join(["".join(map(lambda c: "IVXLCDM"[int(c)
+2*N],"/0/00/000/01/1/10/100/1000/02".split("/")[x//10**N % 10]))
for N in (3, 2, 1, 0)])

Andrea



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Nov  3 13:50:20 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 13:50:20 -0500
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
In-Reply-To: <slrncoi7qs.dnr.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
References: <cthoeigtdun.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
	<slrncohmqk.n07.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<TfOdna4IePwZexXcRVn-pA@powergate.ca>
	<TbadndhdMqHzaRXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
	<TbadndtdMqGHaBXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
	<6_qdnQZOZ_YYZRXcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
	<slrncoi7qs.dnr.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <E_udnZeXtbXWuxTcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>

Nick Craig-Wood wrote:
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> 
>> >>> t = T()
>> >>> t
>><T(Thread-7, started)>
>> >>> asyncexc = ctypes.pythonapi.PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc
>> >>> exc = ctypes.py_object(ValueError)
>> >>> asyncexc(t.id, exc)
>> 1
>> >>> thread terminated!
>>
>> >>> t
>><T(Thread-7, stopped)>
> 
> 
> On a related subject, I'm trying to forcibly terminate a thread thats
> already running.  I don't see any means of doing this in the docs.
> Sending it an exception would be ideal.  Is the above the only way of
> doing this?

This isn't just a related subject, this is exactly what
I was trying to do above.

I have a test case here which is failing, however, because
the exception is *not* being delivered asynchronously for
some reason, but appears in the thread only when the thread
is already terminating itself.  I'm still experimenting, but
I will probably post the failing test case shortly for
others to play with.

Nick, if you want to learn more, read the threads from this
google search: http://groups.google.ca/groups?q=PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc

Then you'll know as much as anyone about this...

-Peter


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov  9 13:56:05 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:56:05 -0500
Subject: should i start looking for a new list?
References: <20041109101248.F1B661C001B2@mwinf0101.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <cmr3rr$2fs$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Jelle Feringa // EZCT / Paris" <jelle.feringa at ezct.net> wrote in message 
news:20041109101248.F1B661C001B2 at mwinf0101.wanadoo.fr...
I've been posting some of my most burning (newbie) questions to this list, 
and most of them have been unanswered.
Should I be posting these questions at a different list, since their 
technical level is quite low? Am I looking for answers in the right place?
------------------
Some suggestions:
1) there is a tutor list available via www.python.org.
2) make sure your subject lines are as informative or intriguing as this 
one.  I tend to skip over subject line that start with 'Newbie ...'.
3) post plain ascii text without markup rather than rtf/html
4) use spaces rather than tabs when you post code
    Here is what the code quoted by Stroud looks like in Outlook Express.

> i = 0
> for x in hour:
> skyName = skiesok[i]
> print skyName
> number = str(skyName[3:-4])
> oconv, oo, oe = win32pipe.popen3('oconv -i no_sky.oct'\
> +' sky'+number+'.sky'+' > '+'tmpOct'+number+'.oct')

If you did not give continuation lines an extra indentation in your 
original (not required by the syntax rules, but often helpful for reading), 
consider doing so.

Terry J. Reedy





From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Thu Nov 18 13:43:17 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:43:17 -0800
Subject: PIL for Python 2.4?
In-Reply-To: <6r6pp018glonqu2kqeau5ru9nhfj9fpchv@4ax.com>
References: <6r6pp018glonqu2kqeau5ru9nhfj9fpchv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <419d002e$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
> Has anyone built PIL (1.1.4 or 1.1.5) for Python 2.4?  If yes, please
> let me know, since I can't test a couple of my apps using PIL with 2.4 .
> You can even reply by email (yes, I dare use true email in newsgroup
> postings, but then, I'm postmaster and welcome spam :)
> 
> TIA
[... windows ... replies from others on using the MS VC 7.1  ...]
Note that if you install MinGW, distutils can build acceptable
files with it.  Since I believe I remember the PIL stuff is set up
to build with distutils, you should be able to get it going that way
as well.

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it  Wed Nov 10 17:32:42 2004
From: NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it (Manlio Perillo)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:32:42 GMT
Subject: ConfigParser
References: <nrr3p0d03b1p2pcvk7irgbm1k0nurndehj@4ax.com>
	<2rs4p01b9uugvd6huie5g3oebbe8n2ueo3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <2q55p0t4g6rbhog25bm3hed2evqto7e26s@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:04:55 +0100, Ivo Woltring <Python at IvoNet.nl>
wrote:

>On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:39:27 GMT, Manlio Perillo
><NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it> wrote:
>
>>Regards.
>>
>>Since sections in CongiParser files are delimited by [ and ], why
>>there is not an escape (and unescape) function for escaping
>>&, [, and ] characters to &amp;, &lbrack; and &rbrack; ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Thanks   Manlio Perillo
>
>By the way I did some testing because i have a similar thing going on
>right now. I found out that
>
>[section]
>option = [Ivo Woltring]
>
>is valid and does not have to be translated to
>[section]
>option = &lbrack;Ivo Woltring&rbrack;
>

Yes, I have discovered this too.
But my problem is with section names.



Thanks and regards   Manlio Perillo


From jbperez808 at wahoo.com  Mon Nov  1 07:32:32 2004
From: jbperez808 at wahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 20:32:32 +0800
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <HNedne3QcamF4h7cRVn-3g@speakeasy.net>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<HNedne3QcamF4h7cRVn-3g@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <2umo5dF2cmvkqU1@uni-berlin.de>

A.M. Kuchling wrote:

>>Is Python taking a similar step (-> Python 3) some time in the near future?
> 
> 
> The list of features for Python 3000 is described in PEP 3000, 
> appropriately enough:
> 
> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-3000.html
> 
> Most of the suggested changes remove redundancy, such as removing
> now-unneeded built-in functions and language features.

Which I heartily concur with as being what should be one of
the primary goals...

TIMTOWTDI and ad hoc feature development are exactly what
makes Perl source code so unwieldy and inelegant.


From peter at designtheory.org  Mon Nov 22 13:59:55 2004
From: peter at designtheory.org (Peter Dobcsanyi)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 18:59:55 GMT
Subject: ANN: pydesign 0.5
Message-ID: <mailman.6710.1101159746.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>


PYDESIGN version 0.5 has been released.
It is available from:

    http://designtheory.org/software/pydesign/


What is it?
-----------

PYDESIGN is a collection of Python modules and applications to provide a
computational framework for working with combinatorial and statistical
designs.

For more details, see the online documentation and the release notes at
the above URL.

--             ,
    Peter Dobcsanyi


From danu_milis at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  3 18:46:16 2004
From: danu_milis at yahoo.com (danu kusmana)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 15:46:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python for PDAs/Mobile phones?
In-Reply-To: <cmab25$7il$1@news.tudelft.nl>
Message-ID: <20041103234616.22411.qmail@web60605.mail.yahoo.com>

check out these sites:
http://www.mobilewhack.com/programming/python/python_on_nokia_screenshots.html

http://www.monkeyhouse.eclipse.co.uk/mobile/python.htm

danu

--- Andre Meyer <meyer at acm.org> wrote:

> Hi Pythoneers
> 
> Some time ago there was an annoucement* of Python
> being implemented for 
> Nokia phones. Is that project still alive?
> 
> What are the options for running Python on mobile
> phones or PDAs?
> 
> Thanks for your help
> Andre
> 
> 
> * http://www.mobileburn.com/news.jsp?Id=732
>   
>
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/01/21/nokia_prefers_python_to_perl/
>   
>
http://arki.uiah.fi/Documents/2004_06_11_pyth-20040521T215043
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. 
www.yahoo.com 
 



From atterdan at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  5 05:13:03 2004
From: atterdan at yahoo.com (John Doe)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 10:13:03 GMT
Subject: deref in a string into an operand
References: <pan.2004.11.05.08.00.19.364836@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.05.10.09.21.355122@yahoo.com>

Foolish me; I examined the __builtin__ and found __getattribute__, 
along with '__mul__' '__add__', '__sub__' and '__div__'. 

So using a builtin object like 'x' ...

	x = 5
	attr = '__mul__' 

	print x.__getattribute__( attr )( 5 )
	25

My program will store the operand as '__mul__' instead of '*', along with
a health bit of comment.

Dan. Closed.

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 08:01:59 +0000, John Doe wrote:

> I've got the action '+' stored as the variable 'plus',
> that is plus='+'
> 
> Now I want to use the variable plus in an equation:
> 5 plus 7, just line 5 + 7
> 
> How do I do that?
> 
> Dan



From loic.mahe at free.fr  Fri Nov 19 11:19:54 2004
From: loic.mahe at free.fr (Lo?c Mah?)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 08:19:54 -0800
Subject: wxPython: how to update a panel content/layout according to a
	variable content
Message-ID: <27a5ac50.0411190819.3ad36f15@posting.google.com>

Hello

I have a problem to update the content of a wx.Panel already displayed
after changing a variable, used to define the wx.Panel content.

I have the following elements in my code:

DataList:	is a list containing some data

CustomPanel:	is a derived class of wx.Panel,
		it contains one sizer which contains a smaller panel for each
element of the DataList list


After having displayed CustomPanel on the screen, the elements in
DataList change (after a user action like clicking on button)

I would like to refresh the CustomPanel to take into account the
changes of the DataList list
Is there a kind of Refresh/Update function which could update the
CustomPanel so
that evry sizers and panles contained by this CustomPanel are redrawn
according to the current value of DataList ?
or do you have to write your own update/refresh method for Panel and
Windows objects ?
and are you obliged to detroy the CustomPanel  object and re-create a
new one?


I would appreciate any hint/reference to do this, and also a code
sample if possible.

Thanks.

Lo?c


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Nov 17 13:29:47 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:29:47 -0800
Subject: eval syntax problem
In-Reply-To: <cOGdnV2rQ9dquQbcRVn-qA@speakeasy.net>
References: <86pt2c3lgx.fsf@mut.mteege.de>
	<cOGdnV2rQ9dquQbcRVn-qA@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <20041117102513.F995.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
> 
> Matthias Teege wrote:
> 
> > what is wrong with
> > 
> > eval('print %s %s %s' % ('%s', '%', 'foo'))
> 
> print is a statement, not an expression, and eval only handles 
> expressions.  Use exec instead.

What the hell are you talking about?  Don't use either eval or exec,
both are remote holes waiting to happen.

Furthermore...

>>> print %s % foo
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    print %s % foo
          ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

> > fmt='%.2f'
> > a=1
> > b="fmt %" % a

That is also incorrect syntax.  Seemingly you want to be doing the
equivalent of...

b = '%.2f'%a
Which will just create a string representation of a float to 2 decimal
places of precision.

If you want to do rounding on the object, use round...

b = round(a, 2)


 - Josiah



From jonathon.blake at gmail.com  Tue Nov  2 17:54:24 2004
From: jonathon.blake at gmail.com (Jonathon Blake)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 14:54:24 -0800
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
In-Reply-To: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4797ebf041102145466624a3b@mail.gmail.com>

Stephen wrote:

> Python's lack of a CPAN-like facility, 

CPAN is useful, _if_ you know the name of the file you want.
When you don't know the name of the file, it isn't that useful.

I'll grant that something like CPAN would mean that Anaconda, PyAstro
and the like wouldn't disappear from the Python World.

xan

jonathon


From news-and-lists at the-me.de  Fri Nov 12 05:28:33 2004
From: news-and-lists at the-me.de (Axel Bock)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:28:33 +0100
Subject: re.compile.match() results in unicode strings - why?
In-Reply-To: <419388f2$2_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <2vh2mlF2lbkrdU1@uni-berlin.de> <419388f2$2_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <2vjhjcF2kgeidU1@uni-berlin.de>

Kent Johnson wrote:

> Apparently if the input strings are unicode then the groups will be as 
> well:
> [...]
> Are you sure that exp is not a unicode string?

hm. pretty much - i read the lines from a text file which contains only normal 
text. a sample line looks like that:

6. 	 call_noparam 	 1000 runs  	 149453,1 ms 	 149,4531 ms/call

no surprise here, i think ... . Actually I also wrote the program which 
produces that file, and I really didn't use unicode then. opening the file 
with a text editor also does not show unicode, and I can't believe that 
windows does actually manage the unicode stuff transparently to text editors. 
and also I have never heard of file-attached codepage information, those would 
be the only things i could imagine as a reason.

but interesting though, thanks!


ciao,

axel.


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Nov  7 22:46:20 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 22:46:20 -0500
Subject: Python OS
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6035.1099803136.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmin1n$500$02$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6003.1099752590.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmiorc$j4b$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6021.1099783808.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmk7r1$4d0$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<mailman.6035.1099803136.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmmq5g$pvq$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Jeremy Jones wrote:
> Peter Hansen wrote:
>> You _cannot_ use Python for a time-critical interrupt, even
>> when you allow for pure C or assembly code as the bridge
>> (since Python _cannot_ be used natively for interrupts, of
>> course), because -- as noted above! -- the interrupt must
>> execute in a few hundred CPU cycles.
> 
> I'm really not trying to contradict nor stir things up.  But the OP 
> wanted to know if it were possible to prototype an OS and in a 
> follow-up, referred to a virtual OS.  Maybe I mis-read the OP, but it 
> seems that he is not concerned with creating a _real_ OS (one that talks 
> directly to the machine), it seems that he is concerned with building 
> all the components that make up an OS for the purpose of....well.....he 
> didn't really state that.....or maybe I missed it.

Richard's post, to which I was replying, didn't include the
proper attributions for his quoted material, so I don't at
this point know who actually wrote what.  There was someone
who said you could do interrupts in Python (the argument
being that this was so "because you can do them in C", which
is non-sensical given that they are different languages with
different capabilities), and then someone else wrote about
"time-critical code" of "a few hundred CPU cycles", and then
Richard's reply in effect justified the original argument
again (at least, that was my interpretation.  I don't know
if he meant to do that.  I suspect not, given his rebuttal.)

Note that I have *no idea* who the OP was in this thread, nor
what questions he asked or what claims he was making.  Sorry,
I didn't read it in that detail.  I just saw the message to
which I replied, with the unattributed stuff just as I quoted
it, and reacted purely to it.  Probably a bad idea, but I
stand by what I said.

If, as you suggest, the OP just wants a prototype, then I say
wonderful, use Python.  Just don't waste time writing real
interrupts in Python, and certainly don't try to make the
prototype work in an environment where 100 CPU cycles is
important...

> So, asking in total ignorance, and deferring to someone with obviously 
> more experience that I have (like you, Peter), would it be possible to 
> create an OS-like application that runs in a Python interpreter that 
> does OS-like things (i.e. scheduler, interrupt handling, etc.) and talks 
> to a hardware-like interface?  If we're talking about a virtual OS, 
> (again, I'm asking in ignorance) would anything really be totally time 
> critical?  Especially if the point were learning how an OS works?

Sure, everything you describe would be straightforward and
work wonderfully with Python.

> I totally agree with you...sort of.  I totally agree with your technical 
> assessment.  However, I'm reading the OP a different way.  

I didn't read the OP, just Richard.  Unless he was the OP,
in which case I'm confused about various comments that have
been made, but not concerned enough to go back and try to
figure the whole thing out.  *Your* comments appear right
on the mark, as far as I can see. ;-)

>> Of course, if you will allow both assembly/C code here and
>> there as a bridge, *and* you are willing to accept an operating
>> system that is arbitrarily slower at certain time-critical
>> operations (such as responding to mouse activities) than we
>> are used to now, then certainly Python can be used for such things...
>>
> OK - so here's my answer.  It should be possible, but it will be slower, 
> which seems to be acceptable for what he meant when mentioning 
> prototyping and a virtual OS.  But here's another question.  Would it be 
> possible, if I've interpreted him correctly, to write the whole thing in 
> Python without directly calling C code or assembly?  

Nope.  Python has no ability to interface to something that is
defined only at the assembly level (interrupt routines) without
using assembly.  (I don't even mention C here, as it requires
special non-standard C extensions to support these things, in
effect doing a quick escape to assembly.)

I'll add an additional note:  there's a qualitative difference
between being fast enough to respond to hardware interrupts
at the 100-CPU cycle sort of level of performance, and at
a speed 100 times slower.  It's not a matter of just having
a slower overall system, which might be fine for a prototype
or a simulation.  In fact *it simply won't work*.  That's
because if hardware interrupts aren't answered fast enough,
in most non-trivial cases _information will be lost_, and
that means the system is broken.  That's the definition of
a "hard realtime system", by the way, and an unfortunate
reason that Python in its current form (i.e. assuming its
bytecode interpreted rather than compiled to some kind of
native code) cannot ever be used at the lowest levels of
an OS.

The argument should really be about *how little* assembly
and/or C you can get away with, and perhaps here is where
Mel Wilson should step in with some of his thoughts on the
matter, as I've heard him discuss some ideas in this area. ;-)

-Peter


From Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU  Thu Nov 11 17:04:21 2004
From: Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU (Michael J. Fromberger)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 17:04:21 -0500
Subject: Identifying bundles in MacOS X
Message-ID: <Michael.J.Fromberger-2CA6CC.17042111112004@localhost>

Greetings,

The following question pertains to a problem I am solving in Python 
2.4b2 on a MacOS 10 (Panther) system with an HFS+ filesystem.

Given the pathname of a directory in my filesystem, I would like a 
graceful way to determine whether or not that directory represents a 
"bundle", in the sense that, when you double-click on the directory's 
icon in the Finder, it is launched rather than "opened" for viewing.
Applications behave this way by default, but so do various other file 
types (e.g., the "rtfd" files created by TextEdit, and the data files 
for certain applications such as Quicken).

So, what I want is the following:  A function I can call which will, 
given a pathname, return True if the corresponding directory has that 
property, and False otherwise.  So far, I'm stumped.  Can anyone help?  

Here are the things I've tried so far:

I found the Carbon.File module, and tried what I thought was the obvious 
thing:

  from Carbon import File

  fss = File.FSSpec(dir_path)
  info = fss.FSpGetFInfo()

This, unfortunately, does not seem to work for directories; an OSError 
is raised (-43, File Not Found).  I investigated on Apple's developer 
site, and it seems this is the expected behaviour.  So, no fault of 
Python there.

Next, I tried the following:

  from Carbon import Files

  fsr = File.FSRef(dir_path)
  cat_info = fsr.FSGetCatalogInfo(Files.kFSCatInfoFinderInfo)

This works, but now I have no idea how to determine the answer to my 
question.  The value of cat_info is a tuple consisting of:

  - a File.FSCatalogInfo object
  - a Unicode string (the name of the directory)
  - a File.FSSpec object
  - a File.FSRef object

According to [1], the FSCatalogInfo structure has finderInfo and 
extFinderInfo fields, which ought to contain what I'm after (I think), 
but these do not appear to be exposed by the FSCatalogInfo class in the 
Carbon.File library, even if I specify I want the Finder info and 
extended Finder info when I call FSGetCatalogInfo().

All right, so now my questions for those of you who know better than I 
do, are these:

1. Am I looking in the right place for this information?

2. If not, is there a preferred method for determining whether
   a given directory represents a "bundle" in the MacOS sense?

I would be most grateful for any helpful advice you might be able to 
lend me regarding this puzzle.

Thanks,
-M

P.S.- I was disconcerted to discover that the Python documentation
      does not seem to list the Carbon.File module.  The macfs module 
      is listed, but it is deprecated, so I would prefer not to use it 
      in new code.

References:
[1] Carbon API documentation, "FSCatalogInfo"
    http://shorl.com/biginegastuni

-- 
Michael J. Fromberger             | Lecturer, Dept. of Computer Science
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~sting/  | Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH, USA


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Nov 25 16:37:27 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 16:37:27 -0500
Subject: dictionary initialization
In-Reply-To: <slrncqciv9.ip7.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
References: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<lIydnVF-WvXK3TvcRVn-jA@rogers.com>
	<slrncqciv9.ip7.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <co5j9k$jgv$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Weiguang Shi wrote:
> In article <lIydnVF-WvXK3TvcRVn-jA at rogers.com>, Dan Perl wrote:
>>That would not be justified in python.  The type of b[1] is
>>undetermined until initialization and I don't see why it should be
>>an int by default.
> 
> In my example, it was b[1]+=1. "+=1" should at least tell Python two
> things: this is an add operation and one of the operands is an
> integer. 

Why would it tell Python that?

 >>> b = {1: 2.5}
 >>> b[1] += 1
 >>> b
{1: 3.5}

So at this point, it can clearly be either an integer or
a float.  Doubtless it could also be an object which
overloads the += operator with integer arguments, though
what it might actually do is anyone's guess.

-Peter


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Nov  5 12:05:07 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 11:05:07 -0600
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <418BB2C3.1000108@colorstudy.com>

Maurice LING wrote:
> This may be a dumb thing to ask, but besides the penalty for dynamic 
> typing, is there any other real reasons that Python is slower than Java?

Python is generally late-bound, which means much more happens at runtime 
compared to Java.  For instance, consider accessing an attribute, 
"self.x".  In Java you know what the class is shaped like, exactly. 
Usually this turns into some bytecode like "access the variable of self, 
at offset 3".  I don't know any of the details, but that's the general gist.

Similarly, there's many other optimizations where you can know at 
compile time exactly what functions are called, how variables are 
stored, etc.  Using that information, you can do optimizations like 
inline code.  In the same places in Python, you are typically doing one 
(or several!) hashtable lookups based on the variable or attribute name.

But even in Java there are limits.  Because of interfaces and subclasses 
you can know the shape of self/this, but you can't know the exact shape 
of the objects around you (C++ is more aggressive in this respect, and 
often can determine the exact shape; but in the process it's dangerous 
to put together different pieces of compiled code when they don't know 
about each other, which is why binary interfaces there are fragile). 
Anyway, Java does a lot of the same stuff as Python when the exact type 
is determined at runtime (which is frequently).  This is where JIT comes 
in, doing the optimizations at runtime; it is still limited, as it 
cannot guarantee the type of the objects in the system, but must check 
them each time before using the optimized path.  And, actually, Python 
can do the same sort of things with psyco.  It's still harder in Python, 
and the end result not as effective, but it's one among many tools.

If Java wasn't doing any optimizations, I don't think it would be 
significantly faster than Python.

Also note that Python assimilates external (C, Fortan, etc) libraries 
much better than Java seems to.  In an entire system, Python can easily 
be faster because Java includes many slow libraries (slow compared to 
equivalent libraries available in Python).  E.g., Swing is much slower 
than wxPython.

Anyway, that's my take.  I'm no authority, as I've never seriously used 
Java, and haven't done any tests, nor spent anytime looking at the 
bytecodes, etc.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 20 08:32:54 2004
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 20 Nov 2004 05:32:54 -0800
Subject: don't NaN & infinities hide FP errors
References: <940ee3e8.0411170130.31d247@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.18.01.49.05.537966@jerf.org>
	<419bbb08$0$531$a1866201@visi.com>
	<940ee3e8.0411182041.74321118@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0411200532.9f1a811@posting.google.com>

kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik) wrote in message news:<940ee3e8.0411182041.74321118 at posting.google.com>...
> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote in message news:<419bbb08$0$531$a1866201 at visi.com>...
> > On 2004-11-18, Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:
> > Let's say you've got a bunch of process control modules. Each
> > of them takes a set of input values and produces a set of
> > outputs.
> > 
> > Now let's say one of the inputs fails (no valid value is
> > available).  You can just shut down the whole refinery, you've
> > got to try to keep going as best you can.  The easiest way to
> > do that is to feed a NaN in on the invalid input, and let it
> > propogate through the network of modules.  The outputs that
> > don't depend on the invalid input remain valid.  The outputs
> > that do depend on the invalid input are NaNs.  
> > 
> > At the output end of things you don't have to do all sorts of
> > logic to figure out which outputs are valid and which ones
> > aren't -- all you have to do is decide what to do when each
> > output is a NaN.
> 
> I understand. But I wasn't saying NaN should be removed, only that
> arithmetic operations shouldn't produce it; you will still be free to
> explicitly set a variable to NaN if you don't have valid input.
> 
> Besides, Python seems to raise exceptions instead of generating NaNs
> or infinities, at least on my machine (Linux, GCC 3.3.2, Python
> 2.3.3). Doesn't that support my view?

Python's inconsistent about OverflowErrors:

Python 2.3.4 (#2, Nov 13 2004, 18:58:41)
[GCC 3.3.5 (Debian 1:3.3.5-2)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 1e1000
inf
>>> 10. ** 1000
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
OverflowError: (34, 'Numerical result out of range')

Python 2.1.1 (#1, Aug 25 2001, 04:19:08)
[GCC 3.0.1] on sunos5
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 1e1000
Infinity
>>> 10. ** 1000
Infinity


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Sun Nov 21 10:14:32 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:14:32 -0500
Subject: Small Database Needed
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6669.1101048884.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6669.1101048884.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <U-ydnTSaW_NELT3cRVn-hA@giganews.com>

Kevin McBrearty wrote:

> I'm looking at implementing DB in my program for
> analysis of CAD (STL Files).  This database will
> require the basic functionality.

PySQLite to the rescue:

http://pysqlite.sourceforge.net/manual.html

Istvan.


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Tue Nov  2 03:46:20 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:46:20 -0000 
Subject: problem querying WMI in a background thread
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434B87@iron.ima.umn.edu>

[dr_burrito at yahoo.com]
| I'm using Tim Golden's WMI implementation
| (http://tgolden.sc.sabren.com/python/wmi.html) version 0.6 along with
| pywin32 build 202.  I'm able to successfully query WMI in the main
| thread but not in a separate thread.
| 
| Here's a little snippet of sample code that fails for me:

[... snip example ...]

Well, I'm going to be mildly unhelpful, and say that I
don't strictly understand why your code doesn't work.
The thing which usually bites when using WMI and threads
is the CoInitialize trap, but it usually comes out as
an explicit "Must call CoInitialize" exception rather
than as a random COM error. At the end of the day, the
plumbing in WMI is just COM/DCOM so most things comes
down to issues of COM and threading.

But, to me more helpful, the example below does work,
so maybe you can work backwards from it.

<code>
import pythoncom
import wmi
import threading

class Info (threading.Thread):
  def __init__ (self):
    threading.Thread.__init__ (self)

  def run (self):
    print 'In Another Thread...'
    pythoncom.CoInitialize ()
    c = wmi.WMI ()
    while 1:
      for process in c.Win32_Process ():
        print process.ProcessId, process.Name

if __name__ == '__main__':
  print 'In Main Thread'
  c = wmi.WMI ()
  for process in c.Win32_Process ():
    print process.ProcessId, process.Name
  Info ().start ()
</code>

TJG

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From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Nov 22 02:27:36 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 07:27:36 GMT
Subject: generic object implementation
In-Reply-To: <41a17599.693692997@news.oz.net>
References: <8W9od.373195$wV.310530@attbi_s54> <41a17599.693692997@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <Ixgod.549399$mD.512741@attbi_s02>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> 
> UIAM 'bunch' already has a related meaning from c.l.py past (approx the first
> three lines of your class), so how about 'gob' ? ;-)

Yeah, the intent is basically to provide that 3-liner.  Could be that's 
all that should be in the class...  It wouldn't cover all my use cases, 
but I'd certainly be happier with that than nothing.

> I dunno, begins to look more like a dict with getattr access substituted for __getitem__
> than a primitive generic object...

Yeah, the idea is to provide getattr access instead of __getitem__ -- 
that's basically what the original 3-liner does too.  For my uses, I 
don't think I'd ever want any of __len__, __iter__, __contains__, items, 
keys, values, etc. but I wasn't the only one who seemed interested in 
the idea...  The pyparsing code in particular might benefit from 
something like the frommapping method (and I know I could use it to 
convert XML DOM into nested objects)...

>  >>> class dbunch(dict):
>  ...     def __metaclass__(name, bases, cdict):
>  ...         cdict.update(dict.__dict__)
>  ...         cdict['__getattr__'] = cdict['__getitem__']
>  ...         cdict['__setattr__'] = cdict['__setitem__']
>  ...         cdict['__delattr__'] = cdict['__delitem__']
>  ...         def raiseunsub(*ignore): raise TypeError, 'unsubscriptable object'
>  ...         cdict['__getitem__'] = raiseunsub
>  ...         cdict['__setitem__'] = raiseunsub
>  ...         cdict['__delitem__'] = raiseunsub
>  ...         return type(name, bases, cdict)
>  ...

Interesting approach here.  I hadn't thought of going this way.  While I 
hadn't planned on supporting the whole mapping interface, this would 
certainly be an easy way to do so.  I'll probably wait for a little more 
feedback to see what the others who were interested want to use these 
for...  If people have good use cases for keys, items, etc. this is 
probably the right answer...

> It the hope for a lean representation for small numbers
> of items?

Not exactly sure what you mean by lean...

All the use cases I have for it only care about 'obj.x' type access, and 
don't really use any of the other container type methods.  So in my 
case, __init__, __eq__, __repr__, update and frommapping do pretty much 
everything I want...  If this is true for everyone else's use cases, I'd 
rather not "pollute" the class with a bunch of dict methods...  But I'm 
certainly willing to be persuaded that other methods are also essential.

Steve


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov  9 21:20:20 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 21:20:20 -0500
Subject: Problems with user input
References: <pan.2004.11.09.22.54.37.120023@web.de>
Message-ID: <cmrtsq$3kf$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Florian Wilhelm" <Florian.Wilhelm at web.de> wrote in message 
news:pan.2004.11.09.22.54.37.120023 at web.de...
> I want to read exactly one char from stdin, there should
> be no need to hit enter.

Your problem is that terminal input, as seen from C, is usually, by 
default, in buffered line mode.  This allows the user to edit entries, at 
least by back-spacing, before hitting enter.  How to switch to character 
mode or grab the raw keyboard input is OS specific.

> Input: (y/N) y
> Your input: y
>
> Why does the whitespace char appear in front of "Your input..."?

Because the print statement puts spaces between items so you don't have to. 
If the convenience of print does not do what you want, take control by 
using sys.stdout.write(<string>), which writes *exactly* what you tell it 
to.

Terry J. Reedy





From james at frontlogic.com  Wed Nov 10 16:43:31 2004
From: james at frontlogic.com (James Sapara)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:43:31 GMT
Subject: Python for Reverse Engineering
In-Reply-To: <41927B47.6000904@gmail.com>
References: <cmhdi4$7vi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu><418c50ad$1_3@omega.dimensional.com>
	<418C54E9.2000409@vt.edu>
	<mailman.6042.1099806403.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmlhv8$ajc$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cmlj6b$7j9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <cmmihf$7af$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<IVrkd.177971$%k.126855@pd7tw2no> <41927B47.6000904@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41928B82.5040804@frontlogic.com>

Here's some statistical data from the set of keys I posted. I didn't do 
any pattern matching, but I think this shows that the keys are fairly 
random in composition. I have also included stats for a much larger set 
of keys. I noticed in the set of 100 that I didn't get any keys in the 
fourth deviation, so I wanted to make sure such keys do exist. If you 
can think of any other stats from the ord values of character I could do 
that as well. Since I know the algo I also know that the sets of 5 are 
only for readability.

Pattern matching based on Number/Alpha would probably show that over a 
large set of keys it matchs the ratio of numbers to alpha's used in the 
keys. You could do binary comparisons of the N,A's and try to find 
common patterns.

Min/Max ord values ('0', 48) ('Z', 90)
Min Sum/Max Sum/Average Sum 1200 2250 1725
Average value of byte 69
Number of Keys 100
Average sum of keys 1745
Range of Key Sums 1564 to 1894
STD range -3 to 3
Squard Root of Key Sums 79.1896457878

Min/Max ord values ('0', 48) ('Z', 90)
Min Sum/Max Sum/Average Sum 1200 2250 1725
Average value of byte 69
Number of Keys 10000
Average sum of keys 1753
Range of Key Sums 1460 to 1977
STD range -4 to 4
Squard Root of Key Sums 75.0266619276

James

****** wrote:

> I'm not a cryptanalysis guy, is there any value in doing this to the 
> strings, uploading this data to a DB and then searching for patterns:
>
> ;5V6XBTV6N65H7J3WWTWQ6H74B;5V6XB;TV6N6;5H7J3;WWTWQ;6H74B;NANAAAANANNANANAAAAANANNA;NANAA;AANAN;NANAN;AAAAA;NANNA;[53, 
> 86, 54, 88, 66, 84, 86, 54, 78, 54, 53, 72, 55, 74, 51, 87, 87, 84, 
> 87, 81, 54, 72, 55, 52, 66];[53, 86, 54, 88, 66];[84, 86, 54, 78, 
> 54];[53, 72, 55, 74, 51];[87, 87, 84, 87, 81];[54, 72, 55, 52, 
> 66];1733;347;356;305;426;299
> ;CBPPCLTJ5X1S8ZS5LVBZYRFVW;CBPPC;LTJ5X;1S8ZS;5LVBZ;YRFVW;AAAAAAAANANANAANAAAAAAAAA;AAAAA;AAANA;NANAA;NAAAA;AAAAA;[67, 
> 66, 80, 80, 67, 76, 84, 74, 53, 88, 49, 83, 56, 90, 83, 53, 76, 86, 
> 66, 90, 89, 82, 70, 86, 87];[67, 66, 80, 80, 67];[76, 84, 74, 53, 
> 88];[49, 83, 56, 90, 83];[53, 76, 86, 66, 90];[89, 82, 70, 86, 
> 87];1881;360;375;361;371;414
> ;QJCT6VXYLT2S9QZSQ02GMJD9S;QJCT6;VXYLT;2S9QZ;SQ02G;MJD9S;AAAANAAAAANANAAAANAAAANA;AAAAN;AAAAA;NANAA;AANAA;AANA;[81, 
> 74, 67, 84, 54, 86, 88, 89, 76, 84, 50, 83, 57, 81, 90, 83, 81, 79, 
> 50, 71, 77, 74, 68, 57, 83];[81, 74, 67, 84, 54];[86, 88, 89, 76, 
> 84];[50, 83, 57, 81, 90];[83, 81, 79, 50, 71];[77, 74, 68, 57, 
> 83];1867;360;423;361;364;359
>
>


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
James Sapara
Software Architect

Front Logic Inc.                Tel: 306.653.2725 x14
Suite 300, Scotia Center        Toll Free: 1.800.521.4510
111 Second Ave South            Fax: 306.653.0972
Saskatoon, SK S7K 1K6
Canada
http://www.frontlogic.com           james at frontlogic.com

Find out what TYPENGO(tm) N300 Search Technology can do for your
company: http://www.frontlogic.com/interactive/hosts/typengo/index.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov 22 09:29:20 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:29:20 -0500
Subject: Trouble with psyco
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6692.1101125167.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6692.1101125167.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <RKmod.1923$QR.1588@lakeread01>

Dick Moores wrote:

> psyco is acting a bit psycho for me.
> 
> Please see my spinForWeb.py at <http://www.rcblue.com/Python/spinForWeb.py>
> 
> When psyco is in use, entering an integer somewhere between 2000 and 
> 2500 causes my computer to freeze. Not really freeze but the program 
> doesn't finish, and I have to quit with a ^Q.
> 
> psyco is really impressive, but I'm disappointed that I can't 
> demonstrate (to friends) counting with it to numbers above 2 billion.
> 
> If I remark out the "psyco.bind(spin)" line, there's no problem no 
> matter what integer I enter. Can someone explain what the problem with 
> psyco is?
> 
> Windows XP, Python 2.3.4
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dick Moores
> rdm at rcblue.com
> 
> 
> 
$ python -c "print 2**31"
2147483648

[Please note this is all theory, as I'm not a psyco user]

You are hitting the limit of your platform's integers. After that Python 
(and, presumably, psyco) starts using longs, which will be considerably 
slower.

In plain Python you probably notice the difference much less, because 
there is less difference between integer ops and long ops when no 
optimization is applied. I presume that psyco (stealing a phrase from 
Tim Peters) "optimizes the snot" out of the integer operations, and the 
transition to longs then becomes much more noticeable.

The alternatives are to use a platform with 64-bit integers or stop 
trying to deal with large integers.

I should thank you for the post, as the statement above about my not 
being a psyco user is no longer true. To test the theory I actually 
installed psyco, and verified that your figure of 2000 isn't accurate - 
an input of 2100 could be processed by the psyco-optimized version in 
9.834 seconds on my machine. An input of 2200 took longer than I cared 
to wait, which I regard as strong evidence that it's crossing the 
integer/long boundary that's biting you.

Given that without psyco it took me almost 41 seconds to process an 
input of 100, I think you should be grateful for what you've got ;-)

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From esj at harvee.org  Tue Nov 30 12:35:01 2004
From: esj at harvee.org (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:35:01 -0500
Subject: asynchat and threading
In-Reply-To: <20041129220200.17481.475573126.divmod.quotient.11687@ohm>
References: <41AB8F0A.7050502@harvee.org>
	<20041129220200.17481.475573126.divmod.quotient.11687@ohm>
Message-ID: <41ACAF45.1050202@harvee.org>

Jp Calderone wrote:
> 
> 
>   Why not use apt-get?

well, I am recommending using apt-get but within entirely different and 
separate namespace for modules.  But on second thought,, it might not be 
  necessary to separate the namespace.  If you just need to add the 
repository for Python modules to the apt-get configuration files, it 
might just work. hmmm.  the trick would be making modules that were 
multiplatform/distribution aware.

---eric



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Mon Nov 15 06:44:31 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 11:44:31 GMT
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<4195419b.303035081@news.oz.net>
	<slrncpgm80.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<cna31t$aom$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <slrncph5k0.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-11-15, Peter Hansen schreef <peter at engcorp.com>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> AFAIU the Queue module doesn't block on a full/empty queue when
>> a timeout is specified but goes in a loop sleeping and periodically
>> checking whether place/items are available. With signals that
>> can be sent to a thread the queue could just set an alarm and
>> then block as if no timeout value was set and either unblock
>> when place/items are available or get signalled when the timeout
>> period is over.
>
> I'm fairly sure that the Queue uses an internal Event
> (or REvent?) to signal when space or a new item is
> available, so I believe your description (and possibly
> conclusion) above is wrong.  There should be no
> "periodical check", as that would imply polling.  Check
> the source if you're interested.

I did check the source, I just didn't study it carefully
and got my understanding mostly from the comments.
But anyway here is the relevant part and IMO we have
a polling loop here.


class Queue:

  ...

  def get(self, block=True, timeout=None):
    """Remove and return an item from the queue.

    If optional args 'block' is true and 'timeout' is None (the default),
    block if necessary until an item is available. If 'timeout' is
    a positive number, it blocks at most 'timeout' seconds and raises
    the Empty exception if no item was available within that time.
    Otherwise ('block' is false), return an item if one is immediately
    available, else raise the Empty exception ('timeout' is ignored
    in that case).
    """
    if block:
      if timeout is None:
        # blocking, w/o timeout, i.e. forever
        self.esema.acquire()
      elif timeout >= 0:
        # waiting max. 'timeout' seconds.
        # this code snipped is from threading.py: _Event.wait():
        # Balancing act:  We can't afford a pure busy loop, so
        # we
        # have to sleep; but if we sleep the whole timeout time,
        # we'll be unresponsive.  The scheme here sleeps very
        # little at first, longer as time goes on, but never
        # longer
        # than 20 times per second (or the timeout time
        # remaining).
        delay = 0.0005 # 500 us -> initial delay of 1 ms
        endtime = _time() + timeout
        while 1:
          if self.esema.acquire(0):
            break
          remaining = endtime - _time()
          if remaining <= 0:  #time is over and no element arrived
            raise Empty
          delay = min(delay * 2, remaining, .05)
          _sleep(delay)       #reduce CPU usage by using a sleep


-- 
Antoon Pardon


From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Fri Nov 19 16:44:56 2004
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:44:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Recursive regexps?
Message-ID: <slrncpsqao.m3p.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

Hi!

I've been looking at ways of dealing with nested structures in regexps
(becuase I figured that would be faster than the Python parsing code
I've currently got) and came across a few interesting things...

First there is this, mentioning the (?<DEPTH>) and (?<-DEPTH>)
constructs of the .NET regexp matcher:

  http://www.rassoc.com/gregr/weblog/archive.aspx?post=590

Then there was some documentation on PCRE, mentioning (among other
things) The (?R) construct, which (as far as I can tell) matches the
pattern recursively):

  http://www.gsp.com/cgi-bin/man.cgi?section=3&topic=pcrepattern

It seems that this functionality was introduced in Perl 5.6.

Is this (or something similar) something that would be realistic to
get in the re module? I know I would find it very useful...

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland       Fallen flower I see / Returning to its branch
http://hetland.org       Ah! a butterfly.           [Arakida Moritake]


From tchur at optushome.com.au  Fri Nov 19 19:36:58 2004
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: 20 Nov 2004 11:36:58 +1100
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <x7y8gxfldb.fsf@guru.mired.org>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.6614.1100891946.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<419E6C13.1040508@v.loewis.de>  <x7y8gxfldb.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1100911018.1301.19.camel@emilio>

On Sat, 2004-11-20 at 10:51, Mike Meyer wrote:
> "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> writes:
> 
> > Neal D. Becker wrote:
> >> Doesn't Python (along with probably every other language ever invented)
> >> display prior art here?
> >
> > Wrt. claim 1, yes. Actually, C is prior art here: you have two
> > expressions representing pointers, and you have a system where
> > you can determine that the pointers refer to different memory
> > locations.
> 
> LISP has had NEQ for about 40 years.
> 
> Can they actually get away with patenting the spelling of the
> keywords in a language?

It is worth remembering that US patents are only valid in the US.
Although a US patent application like this establishes a priority date,
if Microsoft (or anyone else) wants patent protection in other
countries, then they still need to pursue separate applications in each
of those countries. Here in Australia, the test for novelty has been
tightened for patents applications filed after Jan 2002. Previously the
prior art needed to be described in a single document (or single public
"performance of an act"). Now elements of prior art published in
separate published documents but which is clearly related (in the view
of a skilled person) are also acceptable. Thus prior art comprising any
published description of the BASIC programming language, and the prior
art comprising a published description of "is not" in just about any
other programming language should be sufficient to torpedo the
application. Previously it may have required prior art of someone
describing in a published work the concept of "is not" specifically in
the context of BASIC.

Of course, if and when Microsoft files an application for this in
Australia, it may be necessary for someone to lodge an objection
pointing out the above, if the Australian patent office examiners don't
reject the application at its preliminary examination.

Oh, IANAL.

-- 

Tim C

PGP/GnuPG Key 1024D/EAF993D0 available from keyservers everywhere
or at http://members.optushome.com.au/tchur/pubkey.asc
Key fingerprint = 8C22 BF76 33BA B3B5 1D5B  EB37 7891 46A9 EAF9 93D0





From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Tue Nov 16 12:51:00 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 12:51:00 -0500
Subject: Redirecting system output quietly
References: <mailman.6395.1100563802.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<XIdmd.44547$QJ3.18327@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<abf57198.0411160816.26d192c9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <u1xet7ke3.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

hugonz at hotmail.com (Hugo Gonz?lez) writes:

> There's an even easier way to do this. You can use the "commands"
> module:
> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-commands.html
> 
> This is easier and faster than using popen, and will allow you to get
> exit status (os.popen* won't let you)

Well, since the commands module is just a simple wrapper around the
os.popen() call, it's hard to see it giving you anything you can't get
with the call itself :-)

You can certainly get the exit status from os.popen - it is returned
as the result of the close() operation.  (Under Windows, for the
higher order popen* calls, you get the exit status from the close() on
the final of the multiple handles you close, while under Unix I think
you need to explicitly do a wait() on the returned handle).

One thing to be aware of with commands (although this shouldn't be a
problem for the OP in this case), is that it is Unix only, and won't
work properly under Windows.

-- David


From benji at benjiyork.com  Sat Nov  6 10:46:34 2004
From: benji at benjiyork.com (Benji York)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 09:46:34 -0600
Subject: Python OS
In-Reply-To: <cmiqao$5s8$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmin1n$500$02$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6003.1099752590.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmiorc$j4b$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6005.1099754306.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmiqao$5s8$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <418CF1DA.2000001@benjiyork.com>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> And it backs my assertions:

Definitely.  I missed that part.

I wonder if someone were to start a similar project today if they would 
be able to use Pyrex (which generates C) to do large parts of the OS.

Perhaps when I retire <wink>.
-- 
Benji York
benji at benjiyork.com



From ukunapul at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  2 02:35:37 2004
From: ukunapul at hotmail.com (Uday)
Date: 1 Nov 2004 23:35:37 -0800
Subject: Newbie Question
Message-ID: <783d0f8c.0411012335.196183ce@posting.google.com>

Hi,
  I would like to know how can I create and assign variables by 
de-referencing the values in other variable in Python. 

I can illustrate what I mean by an example of perl

$a = "task_id";
$i = "1";
$c = $a."_".$i;
$$c = 2;
print "$task_id_1\n";
# Gives the answer as 2

My problem is that I need to dynamically generate a unique 
variable within a for loop in Python. The name of the variable
should be appended by the index of the loop. 

In the above example if $i were an array index, then as we
traverse through the array, a unique variable is defined.

Is there any way to do it in Python??

I am not in python.users mailing list, please reply to me directly.

Thanks,
Uday


From technique at oceanicsky.com  Tue Nov 30 06:06:45 2004
From: technique at oceanicsky.com (David Siedband)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 03:06:45 -0800
Subject: recombination variations
Message-ID: <EC3B7F34-42BF-11D9-B500-000D93ACB684@oceanicsky.com>

The problem I'm solving is to take a sequence like 'ATSGS' and make all 
the DNA sequences it represents.  The A, T, and G are fine but the S 
represents C or G.  I want to take this input:

[ [ 'A' ] , [ 'T' ] , [ 'C' , 'G' ], [ 'G' ] , [ 'C' , 'G' ] ]

and make the list:

[ 'ATCGC' , 'ATCGG' , 'ATGGC' , 'ATGGG' ]

The code below is what I have so far:  'alphabet' is a dictionary that 
designates the set oif base pairs that each letter represents (for 
example for S above it gives C and G).  I call these ambiguous base 
pairs because they could be more then one.  Thus the function name 
'unambiguate'.  It makes a list of sequences with only A T C and Gs and 
none of the ambiguous base pair designations.

	The function 'unambiguate_bp' takes a sequence and a base pair in it 
and returns a set of sequences with that base pair replaced by each of 
it's unambiguous possibilities.

	The function unambiguate_seq takes a sequence and runs unambiguate_bp 
on each base pair in the sequence.  Each time it does a base pair it 
replaces the set of things it's working on with the output from the 
unambiguate_bp.  It's a bit confusing.  I'd like it to be clearer.

Is there a better way to do this?
--
David Siedband
generation-xml.com



def unambiguate_bp(seq, bp):
     seq_set = []
     for i in alphabet[seq[bp]]:
         seq_set.append(seq[:bp]+i+seq[bp+1:])
     return seq_set

def unambiguate_seq(seq):
         result = [seq]
         for i in range(len(seq)):
             result_tmp=[]
             for j in result:
                 result_tmp = result_tmp + unambiguate_bp(j,i)
            result = result_tmp
     return result



alphabet = {
	'A' : ['A'],
	'T' : ['T'],
	'C' : ['C'],
	'G' : ['G'],
     	'W' : ['A','T'],
	'M' : ['A','C'],
	'R' : ['A','G'],
     	'Y' : ['T','C'],
	'K' : ['T','G'],
	'S' : ['C','G'],
     	'H' : ['A','T','C'],
	'D' : ['A','T','G'],
	'V': ['A','G','C'],
	'B' : ['C','T','G'],
     	'N' : ['A','T','C','G']
	}



From anhtt at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 19 09:51:17 2004
From: anhtt at hotmail.com (Tran Tuan Anh)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 06:51:17 -0800
Subject: SPARK v.s. PLY
References: <ed89f8f2.0411180648.49ac6763@posting.google.com>
	<cninkf$qga$1@news.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <ed89f8f2.0411190651.672077d8@posting.google.com>

Anyone has used ANTLR?

Daniel Dittmar <daniel.dittmar at sap.corp> wrote in message news:<cninkf$qga$1 at news.sap-ag.de>...
> Tran Tuan Anh wrote:
> > I am searching for a suitable parsing tool to parse C++ for a research
> > project.
> > Actually I am parsing SystemC, it is a C++ lib with some macros, hence
> > I need to modify the grammar a little bit to handle some new keywords.
> 
> OpenC++ (http://opencxx.sourceforge.net/) is not written in Python, but 
> it knows probably more about C++ than any simple parser generator.
> 
> Daniel


From nehalmistry at gmx.net  Tue Nov 16 00:57:36 2004
From: nehalmistry at gmx.net (Nehal)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:57:36 -0800
Subject: cgi.FieldStorage() is slow
Message-ID: <20041115215736.00007a5c@nehal>

i wanted to created a simple CGI script for uploading files to my
http server, and decided to use python for it. it seems to work
fine except for one issue: there is a lot of CPU overhead.

after profiling, it seems like:
	self.read_lines_to_outerboundary()
which is called from
	cgi.FieldStorage()
is the reason why it's so slow.

when uploading small files, you won't notice a difference, but if
you upload files larger than 2 megs, you can notice it. this
happens on both win2k and freebsd

is there some other way to process CGI, excluding doing it all
manually? will this code be improved in the future?
-- thx, Nehal


From exarkun at divmod.com  Sun Nov  7 12:38:46 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 17:38:46 GMT
Subject: determine IP
In-Reply-To: <3ADD583A-30DE-11D9-A056-003065B11E84@leafe.com>
Message-ID: <20041107173846.14104.1093455745.divmod.quotient.1272@ohm>

On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 11:58:21 -0500, Ed Leafe <ed at leafe.com> wrote:
>On Nov 7, 2004, at 11:53 AM, exarkun at divmod.com wrote:
> 
> >   The above code will _always_ return the local IP address, regardless 
> > of NAT configuration.  For example, running on my desktop:
> >
> >>>> import socket
> >>>> s = socket.socket()
> >>>> s.connect(('google.com', 80))
> >>>> print s.getsockname()
> >     ('192.168.42.4', 40044)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> 
> 	Not OMM:
> 
>  >>> import socket
>  >>> s = socket.socket()
>  >>> s.connect(('google.com', 80))
>  >>> s.getsockname()
> ('66.66.222.137', 55096)
>  >>>
> 
> 	The local IP address is in the 192.168 subnet.

  It sounds like you are running this code on the machine performing the NAT'ing.  It's "local" address can easily be argued to be either of those two addresses, since it sits on two networks.  The behavior I referred to was for any of the other machines on the NAT'd network.

  Jp


From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Mon Nov 22 12:45:56 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:45:56 +0100
Subject: Text widget - insert line
In-Reply-To: <cnt8is$tt7$1@news.newsland.it>
References: <cnt1el$san$1@news.newsland.it>
	<41a21527$0$8170$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<cnt8is$tt7$1@news.newsland.it>
Message-ID: <30emukF2u6uf7U2@uni-berlin.de>

beps wrote:
> Eric Brunel ha scritto:
>> I'm not sure I understand the question... Do you have some code generating
> the 
>> first, and you want it to generate the second? If my guess is correct, can
> you 
>> show us the code? It will surely only be a matter of inserting a 'n' at the
> end 
>> of each line, then do a textWidget.insert(END, ...), but I'm just guessing
> here...
> 
> Here there's my code:
> def show_customers(self, customers) :
> ##      data is a list
>         for data in customers:
>             dato = operator.concat(str(data), '/n')
                                                 ^^
You have to use \n, not /n.

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 15 17:33:07 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:33:07 +0100
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<20041114200132.20649.1982992758.divmod.quotient.5222@ohm>
	<mailman.6390.1100553070.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gnbf8z.mirt8m687hvbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jim Fulton <jim at zope.com> wrote:

> >   Guido has repeatedly stated that a future version of Python will
include static type support.  The Zope project has driven numerous past
changes to Python.  What's funny about this?
> 
> For the record, I'm against static typing for Python, although,
> if Guido decides he wants it, I have an open mind. :)

Glad to hear that.  As for me, I'd love it if function arguments, only,
could bear an 'as' clause (making 'as' a keyword is long overdue):

def x(y as foo, z as bar):
    <body of x>

translating into:

def x(y, z):
    y = adapt(y, foo)
    z = adapt(z, bar):
    <body of x>

where builtin 'adapt' does protocol adaptation.  On the other hand, if
the semantics of those 'as' clauses were something like:

def x(y, z):
    if type(y) is not foo: raise TypeError, 'y must be foo'
    if type(z) is not bar: raise TypeError, 'z must be bar'
    <body of x>

then that's the day I move to Ruby, or any other language that remained
halfway sensible (if any).

In other words, if the 'as' clause (or whatever absurd syntax ends up
being adopted in its place -- judging on recent performance, probably a
two-arguments version of splat, or a nice << to complement the just as
nice 'print>>bah,humbug' syntax -- good thing I don't really care about
syntax sugar;-) ends up being a way to ease *type-checking*, then, well,
I'll evaluate that as being on a par with easing alcohol abuse.  What
the syntax supports, people will do more of, and we already know that
type-checking, like alcohol abuse, is a _very_ popular although
self-destructive practice.

Protocol adaptation is the polar opposite from type checking.  I'd see
syntax that supports adaptation as being on a par with easing things
that are good for you, as well as pleasant, and yet are not widely
practiced -- yoga, aerobics, many other forms of exercise, healthy
nutrition -- the language gently encouraging you to do the right thing.


Alex


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov 22 08:00:17 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:00:17 -0500
Subject: Python with Apache 2.0
In-Reply-To: <dc6f5c99.0411220159.1e934bcd@posting.google.com>
References: <89cc6e1f.0411190632.2976b3e1@posting.google.com>
	<306sikF2sueanU1@uni-berlin.de> <S_xnd.1300$QR.188@lakeread01>
	<dc6f5c99.0411220159.1e934bcd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <irlod.1915$QR.1207@lakeread01>

Graham Dumpleton wrote:
> Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message news:<S_xnd.1300$QR.188 at lakeread01>...
> 
>>Damjan wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Does python support threads safely along with Apache 2.0 in web
>>>>applications.
>>>
>>>
>>>Are you talking about mod_python?
>>>If so, then yes. But note that Apache threads entering the python
>>>interpreter (via mod_python) will be serialized on the GIL.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>This is true, but it doesn't tell the whoel story: mod_python has taken 
>>care to make it possible to configure multiple interpreters - on a 
>>per-directory basis if necessary. Obviously they all share the pure 
>>code, but if I undestand correctly each has its own data space, and 
>>hence its own GIL.
> 
> 
> There is actually a possible bug in PythonInterpPerDirectory directive
> which applies even if threading isn't being used. Specifically, mod_python
> doesn't calculate the interpreter name correctly and although access to a
> directory by name and something in it should logically resolve to the
> same interpreter name it doesn't. More information can be found at:
> 
>   http://www.modpython.org/pipermail/mod_python/2004-November/016788.html
> 
> Overall, I am not sure that PythonInterpPerDirectory is a good idea, but
> then it probably was created to workaround the short comings of the
> module importing system in mod_python which makes it impossible in
> mod_python.publisher to have an index.py file in separate directories
> within the context of the one interpreter. It wouldn't take much effort to
> fix this limitation in the module importing system, but there doesn't seem
> to be much interest in doing so.

Thank a lot for the additional information. I agree that the namespace 
confusion is less than ideal in mod_python.

regards
  STeve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From boisgera at isia.cma.fr  Thu Nov 25 09:35:23 2004
From: boisgera at isia.cma.fr (Sebastien Boisgerault)
Date: 25 Nov 2004 06:35:23 -0800
Subject: Operator Overloading
References: <f6b69c93.0411250014.61315219@posting.google.com>
	<co48s1$r1f$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <f6b69c93.0411250635.740bda00@posting.google.com>

Peter Maas <peter at somewhere.com> wrote in message news:<co48s1$r1f$1 at swifty.westend.com>...
> Sebastien Boisgerault schrieb:
> > I wonder if the following quotation from the Python Reference Manual 
> > (release 2.3.3) about operator overloading is true :
> > 
> > "For example, if a class defines a method named __getitem__(), and x
> > is an instance of this class, then x[i] is equivalent to
> > x.__getitem__(i)"
>  [...]
> >>>>from Numeric import *
> >>>>a = array([0.5])
> >>>>a[0]
> > 
> > 0.5
> > 
> > but
> > 
> > 
> >>>>a.__getitem__(0)
> > 
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> > AttributeError: __getitem__
> 
> The quotation above is true. Short form:
> 
> IF __getitem__ in dict THEN [] works.

Not exactly the same assertion: 
replace "__getitem__ in dict" by "__getitem__ in the class dict" 
and more importantly "[] works" by "[] and __getitem__" are *equivalent*.

Here, "__getitem__" does belongs to type(a).__dict__,
so "[]" and "__getitem__" should work exactly the same 
according to the reference, but they don't.

> [...]
> but this is not what the Python Reference Manual says. Im not a
> Numeric expert but AFAIK Numeric arrays are basically C arrays
> having [] intrinsically so there's no need no deliver it via
> __getitem__.

I would buy your argument if I couldn't find the "__getitem__" method.
But it does exist ! Except that it is hidden is the class __dict__ and
apparently cannot be recovered from the instance.__getitem__ call ...
 
Thanks for your help,

SB


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Nov 11 14:28:42 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:28:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: typed variables (WAS re.compile.match() results ...)
References: <2vh2mlF2lbkrdU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<41938e20$1@nntp0.pdx.net>	<hpLkd.948$ry5.537@fe51.usenetserver.com>
	<mailman.6268.1100194701.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<6GOkd.971$ry5.380@fe51.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041111T201916-365@post.gmane.org>

Stefan Seefeld <seefeld <at> sympatico.ca> writes:

> 
> Steven Bethard wrote:
> 
> > I think perhaps Axel Bock was getting a little pedantic here.

Sorry, I misread the quoting.  s/Axel Bock/Scott David Daniels.  Sorry!

> > Python does not have typed variables; any "variable" in Python can hold an
> > object of any type.  Hence examples like:
> 
> I don't see this as a contradiction (but then, may be we'd need to 
> define what 'variable' means, the reference or the referee). I only
> meant to point out that there is a distinction between strong/weak
> and static/dynamic typing, and thus, that Axel's question was perfectly
> valid.

Yeah, that's why I said the responder was being pedantic.  The question is, of
course, a valid one.

I think the phrasing could have been a little confusing though -- if you thought
that the OP believed that "variables" in Python could be of type str (meaning
that they were statically typed), then you would interpret his question as "how
does a str-typed variable get converted into a unicode-typed variable?" instead
of the real question, "why does m.groups() return unicode objects?"

Again, the question was valid -- I just thought it would be helpful to explain
what Scott David Daniels meant when he said "Python does not have typed
variables", and perhaps give a more standard wording for these kind of
descriptions in Python.

Steve



From TheDolphin at ivonet.nl  Tue Nov  9 14:07:07 2004
From: TheDolphin at ivonet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 20:07:07 +0100
Subject: HTML to Text renderer
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E324510E@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
	<mailman.5856.1099442198.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<l5i562-hih.ln1@halut.solar-empire.de>
Message-ID: <41911561$0$765$3a628fcd@reader10.nntp.hccnet.nl>


"Marc Christiansen" <tolot at jupiter.solar-empire.de> wrote in message
news:l5i562-hih.ln1 at halut.solar-empire.de...
> Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> > Robert Brewer wrote:
> >> To clarify: you don't want the HTML tags merely stripped; you want to
> >> replace e.g. br with a line break and p with, say, two line breaks?
> >
> > Right.  And word wrapping too.  Some other tags would also be
> > interesting: <blockquote>, <pre>, <hr>, <table>, &nbsp;, and something
> > to control alignment (e.g., <p align="">).
>
> Have a look at htmllib.HTMLParser and formatter in the standard Python
> lib (but also look at the source of htmllib). Maybe they provide what
> you need.
>
> HTH
>   Marc

look at this code:

===CUT BELOW===
from sgmllib import SGMLParser

class html2txt(SGMLParser):
  """html2txt()
  """
  def reset(self):
    """reset() --> initialize the parser"""
    SGMLParser.reset(self)
    self.pieces = []

  def handle_data(self, text):
    """handle_data(text) --> appends the pieces to self.pieces
    handles all normal data not between brackets "<>"
    """
    self.pieces.append(text)

  def handle_entityref(self, ref):
    """called for each entity reference, e.g. for "&copy;", ref will be
"copy"
    Reconstruct the original entity reference.
    """
    if ref=='amp':
      self.pieces.append("&")

  def output(self):
    """Return processed HTML as a single string"""
    return " ".join(self.pieces)

if __name__=="__main__":
  html="""<h1>just a piece of html</h1>
          <div class="toc">
            <ul>
               <li><span class="section"><a
href="index.html#install.choosing">1.1. Which Python is right for
you?</a></span></li>
               <li><span class="section"><a href="windows.html">1.2. Python
on Windows</a></span></li>
               <li><span class="section"><a href="macosx.html">1.3. Python
on Mac OS X</a></span></li>
               <li><span class="section"><a href="macos9.html">1.4. Python
on Mac OS 9</a></span></li>
               <li><span class="section"><a href="redhat.html">1.5. Python
on RedHat Linux</a></span></li>
               <li><span class="section"><a href="debian.html">1.6. Python
on Debian GNU/Linux</a></span></li>
               <li><span class="section"><a href="source.html">1.7. Python
Installation from Source</a></span></li>
               <li><span class="section"><a href="shell.html">1.8. The
Interactive Shell</a></span></li>
               <li><span class="section"><a href="summary.html">1.9.
Summary</a></span></li>
            </ul>
         </div>
  """
  parser = html2txt()
  parser.reset()
  parser.feed(html)
  parser.close()
  print parser.output()
=== END CUT ===

The html2txt class is of course extendable and changeble. For me it was
important to convert html to text but the behavior of the class can be
adjusted to change tags to do other stuff... hope it helps

Ivo.




From skysoe at jpcomputers.com.sg  Fri Nov 19 03:52:17 2004
From: skysoe at jpcomputers.com.sg (Sky Soe)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:52:17 +0800
Subject: Pls Help Me
Message-ID: <B1FBD4037C9BD811ADD7000476EA648A09A2B1@LOCAL>

Hello Everybody,
I've a big problem when I installed MySQLdb1.1.2 on python2.3.4 running on
Linux 9.0. And there is an error shows that " Cannot Import MySQLdb''.
Another problem is that it shows me the fatal error that cannot run Python
interpreter because of "Version Mismatch". I would like to know all these
things urgently. Thank u.
Regards,
Sky Soe


From elbertlev at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 24 15:19:10 2004
From: elbertlev at hotmail.com (Elbert Lev)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 12:19:10 -0800
Subject: asynchat and threading
References: <Ij1pd.19554$ld2.4796764@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <9418be08.0411241219.43437101@posting.google.com>

Rob!

Sure it was suggested you may go with twisted. But with minimal
modifications of asyncore you can add a hook.
There are 2 ways to do this:
1. Use small timeout
2. Use a "control socket"

Timeout:

from asyncore import *

def loop(timeout=30.0, use_poll=0, map=None, after_pool = None):
    if map is None:
        map = socket_map

    if use_poll:
        if hasattr(select, 'poll'):
            poll_fun = poll3
        else:
            poll_fun = poll2
    else:
        poll_fun = poll

    while map:
        poll_fun(timeout, map)
        if (after_pool):
            after_pool(map)

after_pool - is a function called when you exit  poll_fun. You can do
whatever you want in this function.
If you call loop with timeout 0.3 - for all practical reasons your GUI
will react OK. If there are a few sockets (I think 1 in your case),
the overhead will be negligible on any reasonable computer.

The second approach is more effective, but more complex too. You add a
socket (as channel 0) and when something happens (f.e. user presses
enter), you write a byte (or any command you want).  Write into this
control socket has to be made atomic to be thread save.

The reason I do not use twisted for client applications is the size of
distribution file. I do not assume python is installed on client PC.
I use distutils with py2exe option. If I use twisted the size is
10mb+.  With asyncore - 2-3 mb.

Hope this helps.


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Tue Nov 16 23:12:33 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:12:33 +1100
Subject: Rounding curiosity
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE4A90BE@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

PyBo wrote:

> What's wrong with this picture?
> 
>>>> x = 500000000.0
>>>> y = x / (1024 * 1024)
>>>> y
> 476.837158203125
>>>> z = round(y, 2)
>>>> z
> 476.83999999999997
> 
> I have tried this and get the same result using different CPU's and
> operating systems. Obviously, '476.83999999999997' is not rounded to
> two decimal places. 
> 
> Or am I doing something wrong?

You just have a fundamental misunderstanding of floating-point
arithmetic.

http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general.html#why-are-floating-point-calcul
ations-so-inaccurate

Tim Delaney


From caleb1 at telkomsa.net  Thu Nov 11 22:18:14 2004
From: caleb1 at telkomsa.net (Caleb Hattingh)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:18:14 -0500
Subject: Concise idiom to initialize dictionaries
References: <mailman.6164.1100018559.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmr4oj$ju0$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <opshb0sok61js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>

Peter, respect :)

For interest sake, how would such a thing look with new-style classes?  My  
(likely misinformed) impression is that __getattr__ for example, doesn't  
behave in quite the same way?

thx
Caleb


On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 20:12:15 +0100, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

>
> Here is a bunch of dictionaries that spring into existence by what is
> believed to be magic :-)
>
>>>> class AllDicts:
> ...     def __getattr__(self, name):
> ...             d = {}
> ...             setattr(self, name, d)
> ...             return d
> ..     def __repr__(self):
> ...             items = self.__dict__.items()
> ...             items.sort()
> ...             return "\n".join(map("%s -> %r".__mod__, items))
> ...
>>>> ad = AllDicts()
>>>> ad.a[1] = 99
>>>> ad.b[2] = 42
>>>> ad.b[3] = 11
>>>> ad
> a -> {1: 99}
> b -> {2: 42, 3: 11}
>
> Peter
>



From jerf at jerf.org  Thu Nov 18 05:56:45 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 05:56:45 -0500
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
	number of output arguments)
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de> <419bbf2a.319309032@news.oz.net>
	<pan.2004.11.18.10.50.56.752619@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.18.10.56.45.65209@jerf.org>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 05:51:00 -0500, Jeremy Bowers wrote:
> * math-type code where the tuple really is the class, as you suggest

By the way, Bengt, just to be explicit, except for this particular "you"
the parent message is addressed generally.


From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Thu Nov 18 00:14:19 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 21:14:19 -0800
Subject: arrays
References: <a2f50cd.0411151042.45487164@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <60dfb6f6.0411172114.44d514ac@posting.google.com>

codedivine at gmail.com (Rahul Garg) wrote in message news:<a2f50cd.0411151042.45487164 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi.
> Is there someway i can get something similar to multi-dimensional
> arrays in python.I dont want to use Numarray.
> rahul

It seems (from other posts) as if you're looking for a way to get
simple multidimensional array behavior in Python, while making
convenient to access it in C, without using numarray or Numeric.

Probably the simplest way to accomplish this without numarray is to
use a class to wrap a list.  Override __getitem__ and __setitem__ to
get the effect of multidimensional access.  Because the data is stored
in a single list, rather than a list of lists, it is convenient to
access it from C.  A minimal example follows.

    class MinimalMultiArray:
        def __init__(self,rows,cols):
            self.rows = rows
            self.cols = cols
            self.data = [0.0] * self.rows * self.cols
        def __getitem__(self,(row,column)):
            return self.data[row*self.cols + column]
        def __setitem__(self,(row,column),value):
            self.data[row*self.cols + column] = value

Notice that Python can unwrap tuples right into function arguments, so
if you reference array[1,2], in __getitem__, row will be set to one
and column to two.

Any improvements left as an exercise.  Here's a suggestion: check
whether row and column arguments are slice objects, and return a list
or a smaller multidimensional array if so.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From syd.diamond at gmail.com  Wed Nov  3 21:57:18 2004
From: syd.diamond at gmail.com (syd)
Date: 3 Nov 2004 18:57:18 -0800
Subject: two new wrinkles to the general class!
In-Reply-To: <kj9eo0hkjem9pbj3pvdbpea6gpl06ighsj@4ax.com>
References: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>
	<kj9eo0hkjem9pbj3pvdbpea6gpl06ighsj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1099537038.677930.245340@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Recap: For a general "container" type class, I wanted to grab another
instance of this class based upon attributes of the items contained
within.  Eg, for an illustrative library of nations, I want to be able
to do operations like
library.get_continent('Europe').get_size('medium').

A good sol'n: Use __getattr__ to intercept the "get_continent"
on-the-fly and split it into "get_" (the function I want) and
"continent" (the attribute I want to select for).  By using the
built-in getattr(), I can grab the value of this attribute in each
component object in my library.  Thus, each "get_foo" does not need to
be hard coded.

Some things I learned: subclass object -- ie, "class Library(object):"
-- for post python-2.2 for a variety of reasons including better
agreement with upcoming versions.  Also, __getattr__ intercepts *after*
looking in __dict__, and __getattribute__ (when you've subclassed
object) intercepts *before*.

First off, thanks to everyone for helping me to this point!  Looking
forward, I've got two other related issues:

>>1) Because I've got many "container" type classes, the best route
would obviously seem be to subclass each to a general "container".  Ie,

class Library_A(Container): ...
class Library_B(Container): ...

The problem: in the current setup, a library_a.get_continent('Europe')
would pass back an instance of Container and *not* Library_A.  The
obvious implication is that any attributes/method specific to Library_A
are gone.  (In the code at the bottom, we'd lose the "defineNation"
method).  My (bad?) remedy: when you create library_a, give it a
"blankSelf" attribute that it can deepcopy before you pass it back.
Within the __getattr__:

def get(value):
container=copy.deepcopy(self.blankSelf)
if self.isNotEmpty()==True:
for item in self.list:
if getattr(item,attribute)==value:
container.add(item)
return container

This hard-code / deepcopy does not seem ideal!

>>2) I've got a bunch of "get_foo" type things where "foo" is not an
attribute of the component class but rather a method.  In our
illustrative example, we could imagine a
"get_nameLongerThanFourLetters" where we add the component nation class
when "nation.is_nameLongerThanFourLetters()==True".

Above, we use getattr() to grab the attribute on-the-fly.  Can we grab
a method on-the-fly, too?  Ie, when we see "get_foo", use the "is_foo"
criteria from the class below.

I hope this makes sense.  In response to Andrea's comments, I'll state
the obvious: I'm fairly new to the intricacies of Python class
structures :).  I'm a student (non CS), and my year or so of Python
experience before this project has been "functional" (alternatively:
quick hacks).  But I love the language!  And I want to learn!  Thanks
again, everyone.

Appendix: Here's the code for the illustrative example...

#!/usr/bin/python
import copy
class Container(object):
def __init__(self,list=None,blankSelf=None):
self.list=list
self.blankSelf=blankSelf
def __getattr__(self,name):
def get(value):
container=copy.deepcopy(self.blankSelf)
if self.isNotEmpty()==True:
for item in self.list:
if getattr(item,attribute)==value:
container.add(item)
return container
def getMethodAndAttribute():
if name.startswith('get_'):
return 'get',name[4:]
else:
return '',''
method,attribute=getMethodAndAttribute()
if method=='get': return get
else: raise AttributeError,name
def add(self,item):
try: self.list.append(item)
except: self.list=[item]
def count(self):
if type(self.list)==type([]): return len(self.list)
else: return 0
def getNameList(self):
outList=[]
for nation in self.list:
outList.append(nation.name)
return outList
def isNotEmpty(self):
if self.count()>0: return True
else: return False
class Library(Container):
def __init__(self):
pass
def defineNation(self,name,continent,size):
nation=Library.Nation()
nation.name=name
nation.continent=continent
nation.size=size
self.add(nation)
class Nation:
def __init__(self,name=None,continent=None,size=None):
self.name=name # eg, Spain
self.continent=continent # eg, Europe
self.size=size # eg, medium

library=Library()
library.blankSelf=Library()
library.defineNation('Spain','Europe','medium')
library.defineNation('USA','NorthAmerica','large')
library.defineNation('Luxembourg','Europe','small')
library.defineNation('Portugal','Europe','medium')

print library.getNameList()
print library.get_continent('Europe').getNameList()



From bill.mill at gmail.com  Sat Nov 13 12:30:31 2004
From: bill.mill at gmail.com (Bill  Mill)
Date: 13 Nov 2004 09:30:31 -0800
Subject: numarray + cPickle problem
In-Reply-To: <1100366822.119444.157780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1100326589.669597.252570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1100366822.119444.157780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1100367031.042556.162860@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Ok, sorry for sending another message to the list so soon, but I think
I've figured out the problem. On Windows, if you want to use one of the
binary pickle settings, you *need* to open your output file in binary
mode. Perhaps this should be mentioned in the cPickle documentation?
Peace
Bill Mill
bill.mill at gmail.com



From ncoghlan at email.com  Tue Nov 30 08:01:17 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:01:17 +1000
Subject: Python code and C code in the same module?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6901.1101801788.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <%uVqd.112242$V41.104378@attbi_s52>
	<mailman.6901.1101801788.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41ac6f1c$0$25782$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> if you insist on doing it the other way around,

This paragraph should actually continue ". . .you clearly have too much free 
time" };>

Cheers,
Nick.


From helten0007 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 23 11:52:58 2004
From: helten0007 at yahoo.com (Pete.....)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:52:58 +0100
Subject: Transfer data from webpage form to database
Message-ID: <41a36ab7$0$23056$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net>

Hi all.
I have made a webpage where there is a webform where people can fill in
their personel information:

The code is below:


I want to transfer the data to a postgreSQL database ( I have allready made
the database with the neccesary tables, and I know how to connect to it )
but I really have no idea how I can transfer the data from the webform to
the database.

If any can help me I will be more than pleased... thanks for your help...

<html>

<head>

<title> Adminperson </title>

</head>

<body bgcolor="#0479ff">

<h1><p align="center">Insert Person</h1></p>

<hr>

<form action="default.asp" method="post">
<p>Name:<br><input type="text" name="name"></p>
<p>Surname:<br><input type="text" name="surnavn"></p>
<p>Username:<br><input type="text" name="usernavn"></p>
<p>Password:<br><input type="text" name="password"></p>
<p>Adresse:<br><input type="text" name="adresse"></p>
<p>Zipcode:<br><input type="text" name="zipcode"></p>
<p>City:<br><input type="text" name="city"></p>
<p>Phone:<br><input type="text" name="phone"></p
<p>Mail:<br><input type="text" name="mail"></p>


<p> What is your profession? <p>
<INPUT TYPE=CHECKBOX NAME="Profession" VALUE="Student" CHECKED> Student
<INPUT TYPE=CHECKBOX NAME="Profession" VALUE="Teacher" CHECKED> Teacher
<INPUT TYPE=CHECKBOX NAME="Profession" VALUE="Teacher Assistent" CHECKED>
Teacher Assistent
<p><input type="submit" value="Submit"></p>
</body> </html>






From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Fri Nov  5 17:43:25 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 22:43:25 -0000
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmp6xu.zmiw6gs3250sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5890.1099529745.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmpyz8.11h86a71kjmdttN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5916.1099587353.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdntd$788$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5920.1099589545.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdrhf$d2c$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5925.1099594558.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10ol7sqdr84k619@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.5935.1099604609.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmegqg$ea2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <slrncoo0gd.ubv.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <cmegqg$ea2$03$1 at news.t-online.com>, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Steven Bethard wrote:
> 
>> Michael Hobbs <mike <at> hobbshouse.org> writes:
>>> 
>>> One word: union
>>> 
>> 
>> Interestingly, unions can be well-defined even in a strongly-typed
>> language, e.g. OCaml:
>> 
>> # type int_or_list = Int of int | List of int list;;
>> type int_or_list = Int of int | List of int list
>> # Int 1;;
>> - : int_or_list = Int 1
>> # List [1; 2];;
>> - : int_or_list = List [1; 2]
> 
> Unions in functional languages are also known as direct sums of types (as
> opposed to products, which form tuples). And trying to access a union that
> holds an int as list will yield an error - runtime, most probably. So there
> is no way of reinterpreting an int as list, which still satisfies the
> paragdigms of a strong typed language.

Just FYI:

In OCaml, the error will be at compile time, and the compiler will warn you
if you do not deal with all possible cases for a given union type.

-- 
 .:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
        "talking about music is like dancing about architecture."


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Nov  4 09:39:44 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 15:39:44 +0100
Subject: seg fault
References: <mailman.5908.1099577174.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmdeve$k28$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Ajay wrote:

> hi!
> 
> i have some code with a gui that does some processing in another thread,
> say t2.
> when t2 needs to display something on the gui, it generates an event
> (which i have binded earlier). the code runs fine on windows but segfaults
> on linux.
> the point where it segfaults is when it generates the event.
> 
> any ideas why?

Lots of gui-toolkits don't like to be manipulated outside the thread their
main eventloop is running. I don't know this for sure for tk, but your
problem looks like it's the case here.

So I suggest you communicate your event to the main thread using a queue,
and insert the event in tk's event loop somehow. For that you could use
after-calls that periodically check for pending events.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca  Thu Nov 25 14:27:46 2004
From: wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca (Weiguang Shi)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 19:27:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: dictionary initialization
References: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<opsh1u2sow1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
Message-ID: <slrncqcchi.i1p.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>

Hi,

In article <opsh1u2sow1js0xs at news.telkomsa.net>, Caleb Hattingh wrote:
> ...
>Dict entries accessed with 'string' keys, 
Not necessarily. And doesn't make a difference in my question.

> ...
>
>Which feature specifically do you want justification for?
Have it your way: string-indexed dictionaries.

   >>> a={}
   >>> a['1']+=1
   Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   KeyError: '1'

a['1'] when it referenced, is detected non-existent but not
automatically initialized so that it exists before adding 1 to its
value.

Weiguang


From valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk  Tue Nov 16 09:14:33 2004
From: valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk (Valkyrie)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:14:33 +0800
Subject: HTMLParser problem
In-Reply-To: <cnd1a5$srn$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>
References: <1100610863.75889@eng-ser4> <cnd1a5$srn$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1100614470.532201@eng-ser4>

Thank you. That means there is no way to deal with it using simple python
built-in functions?


Richard Brodie wrote:

> "Valkyrie" <valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk> wrote in message news:1100610863.75889 at eng-ser4...
> 
> 
>><![if !IE]>
>>
>>HTMLParser.HTMLParseError: unknown declaration: 'if !IE', at line 4, column 1
>>
>>May I ask why such error is raised?
> 
> 
> HTMLParser isn't very forgiving of bad HTML; you feed it syntactically invalid HTML,
> it tends to give you errors. That includes Microsoft only extensions like <![if !IE.
> Unless you know you have known valid sources it may be best to use one of
> the forgiving parsers: Beautiful Soup, UTidylib, libxml etc.. (see many past discussions).
> Uche's article: http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2004/09/08/pyxml.html may be of interest.
> 
> 


From mwm at mired.org  Wed Nov 17 21:12:31 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 20:12:31 -0600
Subject: Enumerating Classes in Modules
References: <jKQmd.16312$Vk6.11976@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <x77jojnbw0.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Rob Snyder <arkham at gmail.com> writes:

> Greetings -
> The idea is basically to support "plug-ins" for an application I'm building.
> I want the end user to be able to sub-class an example plug in class, then
> throw the implementation in a given directory, where I'll find it
> automatically when I need it.

webcheck <URL: http://www.mired.org/webcheck > supports plugin
modules. You might want to give it a look.

         <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Nov 14 04:34:55 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?windows-1252?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 10:34:55 +0100
Subject: .pyc files...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6344.1100420809.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6344.1100420809.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <419726bf$0$521$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Eddie Parker wrote:
> b) Would this go against some sort of coding convention/design decision?
> i.e., "Bylaw 3, subsection 42 of the Python 'Code' states: No config options
> should be specified to the running interpreter, from within any .py file"?

See

http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0304.html

Regards,
Martin


From someone at microsoft.com  Mon Nov 29 14:15:42 2004
From: someone at microsoft.com (Jive)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 19:15:42 GMT
Subject: A lock that times out but doesn't poll
References: <slrncq5vvl.61m.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<kJqpd.5108720$ic1.478957@news.easynews.com>
	<uis7sxu95.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<Gr8qd.5826881$6p.937672@news.easynews.com>
	<cocmon$k3c$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<Spsqd.3779600$yk.580269@news.easynews.com>
	<coe5l8$6l1$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <yzKqd.5915789$6p.948699@news.easynews.com>


"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:coe5l8$6l1$1 at utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net...
> Jive wrote:
> > Oh, there will be no bugs.
>
> ??  What kind of a statement is that?

Humorous?  Imagine Carl Spackler in Caddy Shack saying, "Oh, there will be
no money."

> Seriously, why are you so confident about that?  Even if
> the code were trivial, we're talking *threads* here...
>

Two reasons:

1) I just know I can do it.  Argue with *that* logic!

B) Writing bug-free code is quite possible when the job is well-defined and
"from scratch."
It's when you have to modify a mess that it gets tricky.

I think a lot of programmers would be capable of writing bug-free code if
they just knew
it was possible and believed they could do it.  My programmers submit very
few bugs.

I've made some bugs in my day, but the odds are with me on this one.

But enough about me...  Read any good books lately?






From mwm at mired.org  Mon Nov 15 14:33:46 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:33:46 -0600
Subject: .pyc files...
References: <1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.6345.1100420943.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpel29.hfd.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<2mqfp0tuuutj01njq2400trfhd4vtbv81m@4ax.com>
	<x7wtwolygl.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<ptjhp0pm58em0uqbhoh86cp83qrd3cblbv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <x7oehynbz9.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> writes:

> So, "...these are the GNU versions..." could be wrong or misleading, I
> agree (but I believe it's not); I think that "...the traditional Unix
> ones..." is correct though.

Which leaves open the question of what "traditional Unix" is. Being a
BSD user since 3.0 or thereabouts, that's what I think of as
traditional Unix. And I'm pretty sure CSRG added the 0 options to find
and xargs.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Nov  9 15:50:46 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 12:50:46 -0800
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <slrncp0mvm.vd1.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<87d5ysbkq9.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<slrncp0mvm.vd1.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <10p2b7nc5efcse3@corp.supernews.com>

Dave Cook wrote:

>wxpython runs on top of gtk on Linux, but I don't know if they use the gtk
>treeview as a "peer" or work around it and implement their own tree widget.
>  
>

Given that the express goal of wxWidgets is to use native widgets 
wherever possible (a goal which results in some cross-platform 
inconsistencies, but is largely responsible for its "better" (i.e. 
native) look and usually-better speed), I'd think it very likely that it 
does use the GTK treeview. 

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From caleb1 at telkomsa.net  Thu Nov 11 22:48:33 2004
From: caleb1 at telkomsa.net (Caleb Hattingh)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:48:33 -0500
Subject: Concise idiom to initialize dictionaries
References: <mailman.6164.1100018559.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmr4oj$ju0$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<opshb0sok61js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
	<mailman.6283.1100205029.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <opshb167pb1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>

Steve,

Not only did you answer my silly question, but also the question I  
actually wanted to ask ...__getattribute__ is what I was thinking of.

thats cool :)
thx
Caleb

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:30:18 +0000 (UTC), Steven Bethard  
<steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:

> Caleb Hattingh <caleb1 <at> telkomsa.net> writes:
>>
>> For interest sake, how would such a thing look with new-style classes?   
>> My
>> (likely misinformed) impression is that __getattr__ for example, doesn't
>> behave in quite the same way?
>
> Just the same[1] =)
>
>>>> class AllDicts(object):
> ...     def __getattr__(self, name):
> ...         d = {}
> ...         setattr(self, name, d)
> ...         return d
> ...     def __repr__(self):
> ...         items = self.__dict__.items()
> ...         items.sort()
> ...         return '\n'.join(['%s -> %r' % item for item in items])
> ...
>>>> ad = AllDicts()
>>>> ad.a[1] = 99
>>>> ad.b[2] = 42
>>>> ad.b[3] = 11
>>>> ad
> a -> {1: 99}
> b -> {2: 42, 3: 11}
>>>>
>
> I believe that __getattr__ works just the same (but to check for  
> yourself, see
> http://docs.python.org/ref/attribute-access.html).  I think what you're  
> thinking
> of is __getattribute__ which new-style classes offer *in addition* to
> __getattr__.  While __getattr__ is called only if an attribute is not  
> found,
> __getattribute__ is called unconditionally for every attribute access.
>
> Steve
>
> [1] modulo my preference for list comprehensions/generator expressions  
> instead
> of map
>



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Fri Nov 26 04:21:04 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 09:21:04 GMT
Subject: A lock that times out but doesn't poll
References: <slrncq5vvl.61m.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<kGopd.3602822$yk.546791@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <slrncqdtc0.61m.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-11-25, Jive schreef <someone at microsoft.com>:
> Okay, I've got a comment: How about some comments?  Maybe it's just me, but
> I find the code a little hard to comprehend.

The basic algorithm is that you have a list of simple locks that is
treated mostly like a queue. A tread that aquires the Tlock, first
allocates a new lock that is appened to the list and aquired, then
the next to last lock is aquired too.

A thread that releases the lock, releases the first lock and
deletes it from the table and then release the new first
lock.


A thread that specifies a timeout on the release, starts a timer
thread. This timer thread will look if the lock is in the table
and if so releases it and removes it from the table. It also
marks the lock is broken.


> What's up with this?
>
> Exception in thread Thread-456:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\Python23\lib\threading.py", line 436, in __bootstrap
>     self.run()
>   File "C:\Python23\lib\threading.py", line 544, in run
>     self.function(*self.args, **self.kwargs)
>   File "C:\Python23\Scripts\foo.py", line 29, in break_lock
>     sc.pl.release()
> error: release unlocked lock
>
> That crops up occasionally.

There are two solutions for that.

1) Just remove line 29, it is not needed but I entered it for
   "estetical" concerns.

2) Use semaphores in the table. That means changing the Lock
   to a Semaphore on lines 11 and 38.

> It's been a while, but as I recall, the tricky bit in implementing timed
> locks with an alarm clock thread is seeing to it that threads that don't
> time out waiting on a timed lock do not leave zombie alarm clock threads
> running.  If you are not careful, they could proliferate and eat up system
> resources.

What do you mean with a Zombie? The clock thread will remain for as long
as the timeout, which may be longer then needed but then they disappear,
so there won't be any real zombies.


But I expect some of the python comunity are laughing at me now, because
I have discoverd that the Timer class is implemented by a Condition
variable that is waited upon with a timeout. And this timeout is
implemented by a polling loop.


-- 
Antoon Pardon


From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Mon Nov  1 05:06:24 2004
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 11:06:24 +0100
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
In-Reply-To: <uqtbo019ur3crjkuqjsnao00gvc0vndiq0@4ax.com>
References: <1gmfz0k.a3xefz1xzms61N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5689.1099092886.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<nl07o0lr3dvunoq2j0avuvmftnc837fvoc@4ax.com>
	<ad052e5c.0410312112.32869dcf@posting.google.com>
	<idnbo0tctv4f3u23a3ejvpg5qqegaf68jk@4ax.com>
	<uqtbo019ur3crjkuqjsnao00gvc0vndiq0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <41860aa0$0$78738$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Andrea Griffini wrote:

> roman = lambda x: "".join(["".join(map(lambda c: "IVXLCDM"[int(c)
> +2*N],"/0/00/000/01/1/10/100/1000/02".split("/")[x//10**N % 10]))
> for N in (3, 2, 1, 0)])

This rocks!! I'm still trying to understand how it works though :)
--Irmen


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov  2 17:34:06 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 22:34:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<4187aafe$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<slrncofp1m.dvf.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<41880188$0$14993$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <loom.20041102T233300-315@post.gmane.org>

Christophe Cavalaria <chris.cavalaria <at> free.fr> writes:
>
> If by ML you thing of OCaml you should try again. OCaml isn't type safe
> because of a few modules of the standard library. The marshaling module
> comes to mind. Using it you can "typecast" a pointer to an integer as a
> pointer to a string and segfault in the process because the unmarshal
> function trusts the caller to cast the result in the good type.

Thanks, I knew I'd read something like that somewhere.  Totally surprised me too
'cause I figured that, of all people, ML folks would be the most afraid of a
module like this. =)

Steve



From philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net  Wed Nov 24 12:57:38 2004
From: philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:57:38 -0600
Subject: tkinter shell problem
Message-ID: <200411241157.38212.philippecmartin@sbcglobal.net>

Hi,

I have the following problem:

I wrote a tkinter shell which on a key return event first evals the input 
buffer (in a try: except:) and then, in case of except, execs the input 
buffer.


I have the problem if the exec fails:

If I trap it, I do not get the stack dump that I which I would show.

ex:

% import dontexist 

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#3>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    import dontexist
ImportError: No module named dontexist


If I don"t trap it, then my clean up code which is after the exec obviously 
does not get called (i.e, clear my input buffer, save the history, print a 
prompt .......)

Yet Idle manages - any clue ?


Regards,

Philippe






From riko.wichmann at remove-this.desy.de  Tue Nov 23 07:37:10 2004
From: riko.wichmann at remove-this.desy.de (Riko Wichmann)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 13:37:10 +0100
Subject: seg fault when doing shelve.open
Message-ID: <cnvatv$2e0it$1@claire.desy.de>

Dear all,

I have Pyhthon 2.3.4 compiled from sources installed. I would like to 
create a data base which is accessed by a key using the shelve module.

However, if I try to open a (non-exixting) file I get a segmantation fault:

 >>> import shelve
 >>> d = shelve.open("MyDB")
Segmentation fault

Stepping through the module which pdb tells me where is crahes:

 > /usr/local/lib/python2.3/bsddb/__init__.py(248)_checkflag()->5
-> return flags | db.DB_THREAD
(Pdb) s
 > /usr/local/lib/python2.3/bsddb/__init__.py(185)hashopen()
-> d = db.DB()
(Pdb) s
Segmentation fault

However, that doesn't tell me anything.

Do i need to compile python with a special configure flag so that 
shelve'ing works properly? does it use some installed db package which 
might be broken?

Any hint would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and Cheers,

	Riko


From news5 at bennymo.ch  Tue Nov 16 15:14:43 2004
From: news5 at bennymo.ch (Benny Mohr)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:14:43 +0100
Subject: get function arguments
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6451.1100635452.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cndm3b$lin$1@newshispeed.ch>
	<mailman.6451.1100635452.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cndn39$mlt$1@newshispeed.ch>

Thanks a lot, that's what I'm looking for

Benny

Steven Bethard wrote:
> Benny Mohr <news5 <at> bennymo.ch> writes:
> 
>>How can I get the list of argumens of this function?
> 
> 
> Is this what you mean?
> 
> 
>>>>def myFunc(a,b,c='default'):
> 
> ... 	pass
> ... 
> 
>>>>myFunc.func_code.co_varnames
> 
> ('a', 'b', 'c')
> 
> I don't know where (if?) the func_code attributes are documented, but you should
> be able to figure them out with a little object introspection (e.g. dir or an
> editor like PythonWin that does some code completion).
> 
> Steve
> 


From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 19:55:29 2004
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony C)
Date: 1 Nov 2004 16:55:29 -0800
Subject: Linksys Router & Python
References: <cltjkt$4fi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <8249c4ac.0411011655.5ebd6f1a@posting.google.com>

BRad

Here's a one-liner way of getting your IP address, but you'd need a
shell
account on a webserver to get it.
I made a python CGI script, and had it print the IP address of the
client as HTML.

import os
print os.environ["REMOTE_ADDR"]

I don't show the code to to format the output as HTML, but that's
rpretty straightforward.

However, this would still require you to have your computer on while
you're away, which isn't your goal. But at least you don't have to
login to your router to get the info.

You can accomplish the same thing by running a python script to
www.myipaddress.com, and scraping the screen.

These are just another ways of getting your IP address.
I copied this from a post on CLP, so I can't take credit for it.

Brad Tilley <bradtilley at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<cltjkt$4fi$1 at solaris.cc.vt.edu>...
> Probably a stupid question, but here goes:
> 
> Is there any way to get a scaled down version of Python onto a Linksys 
> Wireless router? Are there any projects out there that are doing this? 
> I've googled around a bit, but didn't find much. I want to keep the 
> router's software as it is, but I also would like to have some scripting 
> abilities on it as well (like email the router's IP addy every x hours), 
> etc.
> 
> I have scripts that run on my computers that do this sort of thing.
> 
> def url_open():
>      """ Function that gets and returns the IP addy
>      of my Linksys BEFW11S4 Wireless DSL router."""
>      import urllib, re
>      ip = re.compile ('\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}')
>      f = urllib.urlopen("http://user:passwd at 192.168.1.1/RouterStatus.htm")
>      data = f.read()
>      f.close()
>      routerip = ip.findall(data)
>      print routerip[0]
>      return routerip[0]
> 
> But, when I leave town for vacation, I don't like leaving a computer 
> running. If I could get the interpreter embedded in the device itself, 
> then that would solve the problem.
> 
> This is probably a shot in the dark, but I thought I'd ask.
> 
> Thanks,
> Brad


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov  2 18:38:45 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 23:38:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [OT] Re: general class functions
References: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>
	<4186f23d$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<418815ca$0$9247$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <loom.20041103T003107-572@post.gmane.org>

bruno modulix <onurb <at> xiludom.gro> writes:
> 
> class Library:
>    [...]
>    def getAll(self, **kwargs):
>      library=Library()
>      for nation in self.list:
>        keep = True
>        for attribute, value in kwargs.items():
>          if not getattr(nation, attribute) == value:
>            keep = false
>            break
>        if keep :
>          library.add(nation)
>      return library

I haven't been watching this thread, but I saw a pattern here that Python allows
a much easier solution to.  The code:

keep = True
for item in lst:
    if test(item):
        keep = False
        break
if keep:
    ...

can generally be rewritten as:

for item in lst:
    if test(item):
        break
else:

For example:

>>> def loop1(lst, test):
... 	keep = True
... 	for item in lst:
... 		if test(item):
... 			keep = False
... 			break
... 	if keep:
... 		print "reached if"
... 		
>>> def loop2(lst, test):
... 	for item in lst:
... 		if test(item):
... 			break
... 	else:
... 		print "reached if"
... 		
>>> loop1(range(10), lambda x: x == 5)
>>> loop1(range(10), lambda x: x == 11)
reached if
>>> loop2(range(10), lambda x: x == 5)
>>> loop2(range(10), lambda x: x == 11)
reached if

Always good to take advantage of a language construct when you can.  =)

Steve



From ncoghlan at email.com  Fri Nov 26 08:56:47 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 23:56:47 +1000
Subject: PEP263 + exec statement
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6806.1101470454.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6806.1101470454.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41a7361d$0$25779$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> Does anyone have more information on this? I have tried Google in
> vain. It seems that exec is not that popular (which is a good sign,
> IMHO), and that nobody else had this problem before.

Does compile() work? (i.e. "bytecode = compile(code_str); exec bytecode" instead 
of "exec code_str").

PEP 263 states explicitly that feeding a unicode string to compile() should 
respect the encoding. It's silence on the question of exec fails to inspire 
confidence. . .

If compile() does work even though exec doesn't, it would explain why exec has 
never been fixed :)

Cheers,
Nick.


From sxanth at ceid.upatras.gr  Fri Nov  5 23:17:02 2004
From: sxanth at ceid.upatras.gr (Stelios Xanthakis)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 20:17:02 -0800
Subject: Wrapping or converting Perl module?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5939.1099609759.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <200411030759.15909.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
	<mailman.5939.1099609759.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418C503E.9020800@ceid.upatras.gr>

Terry Hancock wrote:


> 1) Wrap a perl module the way you would a C module
>    (does this ever make sense to do?)
> 

I don't know if it helps but do you know the "pyperl" module.
It's rather interesting.

BTW, I hope pyperl becomes a standard python module.
All in all. Perl is great for Practical Extraction and Report.

Stelios


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Mon Nov 22 05:31:17 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:31:17 -0200
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <cnseks$c34$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<cnlgv2$vc$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<16798.19563.729805.103774@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<cnseks$c34$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <864d37090411220231582b7426@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:22:20 +0100, Fredrik Lundh
<fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:
> Skip Montanaro wrote:
> >    >> My guess is Microsoft hopes to discourage Visual Basic knock-offs.  Claim
> >    >> 2 clearly seems to restrict the scope to BASIC.
> >
> >    Neal> Doesn't Python (along with probably every other language ever
> >    Neal> invented) display prior art here?
> >
> > Sure, but maybe there is no such prior art in the BASIC arena.
> 
> IIRC, the "inventor" mentioned on his weblog that he didn't come up with the idea
> himself; it was suggested by customers.  In other words, the solution clearly wasn't
> obvious to the "inventor" himself, since he didn't invent it.  And if it's not obvious,
> it can be patented, right?  As chewbacca would say, if it doesn't make sense, you
> must patent!
 
Patenting something that was suggested by customers is asking for
trouble. What if the customer who suggested the feature sues
Microsoft? Or worse -- if it turns out that the suggestion came after
seeing 'prior art' elsewhere? (Of course, the patent itself doesn't
cover the idea, but also the implementation, which is why Microsoft
could get away with it. But it does not invalidate the above points,
because the customer could possibly have suggested enough of the
implementation to Microsoft).

(btw, do I automatically assign to Microsoft the property of any idea
that I eventually communicate to them? I'm curious).

> I need coffee.

Me too (but not of the java variety, please) :-)

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Nov 18 11:39:12 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:39:12 +0100
Subject: Need function to test if EFFECTIVE UID has read-access to a
	file.
References: <9b96ed1.0411170915.2b88da0e@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6498.1100715267.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<9b96ed1.0411180820.21447337@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cnij7d$el$01$2@news.t-online.com>

> Ow, is that the only way? =( Because as I see it, open() is a
> relatively costly function compared to something like os.access(), and
> since I'll be calling the function thousands of times in a row it'd be
> really cool if there was something similar to os.access(). But if
> there isn't I guess that'll have to do ...

I didn't measure it, but I bet open internally uses the same function
os.access uses - so in case of failure, you won't have lost much, if
anything at all.

Now for the positive case: if you actually want to _do_ something with that
file, you might needed an open anyway?

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Nov 15 22:44:06 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:44:06 -0800
Subject: determining the number of output arguments
In-Reply-To: <1gnbg4k.13z20mj1w1o0ysN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.6392.1100556222.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbg4k.13z20mj1w1o0ysN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041115175212.F945.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:
> 
> Fernando Perez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > > Yep, that's the cookbook recipe Jp was mentioning -- Sami Hangaslammi's
> > > recipe 284742, to be precise.  Yep, it _is_ going into the printed 2nd
> > > edition (which I'm supposed to be working on right now -- deadline
> > > closing in, help, help!-).
> > 
> > Well, I feel pretty good now: I didn't see Jp's mention of this, and just
> > guessed it should be doable with those three tools.  I just looked it up, and
> > it seems it's exactly what I had in mind :)  Cute hack, but I tend to agree
> > with Scott Daniels' comment that this kind of cleverness tends to promote
> > rather unreadable code.  Maybe I just haven't seen a good use for it, but I
> > think I'd rather stick with more explicit mechanisms than this.
> 
> Yeah, but "once and only once" is a great principle of programming.  Any
> time you have to say something _TWICE_ there's something wrong going on.
> 
> So,
> 
> a, b, c, d = lotsa[:4]
> 
> _should_ properly give the impression of a code smell, if your "once and
> only once" sense is finely tuned.  What's the business of that ':4' on
> the RHS?  Showing the compiler that you can count correctly?!  You're
> having to tell twice that you're getting four items into separate
> variables, once by listing exactly four variables on the LHS, and
> another time by that ':4' on the RHS.  IMHO, that's just as bogus as
> struct.unpack's limitation of not having any way to indicate explicitly
> 'and all the rest of the bytes goes here', and for similar reasons.

The slicing on the right is not so much to show the compiler that you
know how to count, it is to show the runtime that you are looking for
a specified slice of lotsa.  How would you like the following two cases
to be handled by your desired Python, and how would that make more sense
than what is done now?

a,b,c = [1,2,3,4]
a,b,c = [1,2]


> I think it would be better to have a way to say 'and all the rest'.
> Lacking that, some automated way to count how many items are being
> unpacked on the LHS is probably second-best.

Is it worth a keyword, or would a sys.getframe()/bytecode hack be
sufficient? In the latter case, I'm sure you could come up with such a
mechanism, and when done, maybe you want to offer it up as a recipe in
the cookbook *wink*.


> Another case where a specific number of items is requested, which is not
> (syntactically speaking) a multiple assignment, is assignment to an
> _extended_ slice of, e.g., a list (only; assignment to a slice with a
> stride of 1 is happy with getting whatever number of items are coming).
> I don't particularly LIKE writing:
>     L[x:y:z] = len(L[x:y:z]) * [foo]


I much prefer...

for i in xrange(x, y, z):
    L[i] = foo

But then again, I don't much like extended list slicing (I generally
only use the L[:y], L[x:] and L[x:y]  versions).

 - Josiah



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Tue Nov  9 22:47:46 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 19:47:46 -0800
Subject: Determining combination of bits
In-Reply-To: <54k0p0pt8jsekrchcic6ob3v0p3uq6do6o@4ax.com>
References: <x3Qjd.121786$hj.41260@fed1read07>
	<mailman.6124.1099945664.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8KQjd.121796$hj.4674@fed1read07> <418ff674$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<p7Sjd.5365$F6.1280593@news.siol.net>
	<cmoqvv$68r$00$1@news.t-online.com> <41901545$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<54k0p0pt8jsekrchcic6ob3v0p3uq6do6o@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4191a26c$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 15:33:01 -0800, Scott David Daniels
> <Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org> declaimed the following in comp.lang.python:
>>(OCA) and increment (INA)".  Note that a ones complement turns all of
>>the least significant zeros to ones, and the least significant one to
>>a zero.  When you increment that the carry propagates back to the 0 for
> 	Ones complement turns ALL 0 bits to 1, and ALL 1 bits to 0.
Right.  In particular, all of the lowest order zeroes turn to 1s,
the one directly before them turns to zero.  Those bits are the only
bits where I care what the value is, all others are simply inverted
(and it doesn't matter what values they have).

> 	00000000
> 1C	11111111	ones complement has a "negative zero"
> +1	00000000	twos complement "overflows" back to single zero

Correct, and this isoloates the least significant one bit for this value
as well (inasmuch as it doesn't exist).

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org



From peter at somewhere.com  Mon Nov 29 04:35:00 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:35:00 +0100
Subject: Building web graphics with Python
In-Reply-To: <bee4de44.0411282217.650d0e73@posting.google.com>
References: <bee4de44.0411282217.650d0e73@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <coer3d$gf$1@swifty.westend.com>

Steven Feil schrieb:
> I am wondering if there is a light weight Python library for producing
> web graphics on-the-fly. There is a C-language library called gd that
> can be used in a CGI program to produce gif images.  The Library can
> be used to produce graphics images that are dynamically generated.  I
> was wondering if there is something similar for Python.

You can create a Python wrapper for gd with SWIG or Pyrex. PIL (Python
Imging Library) and Piddle are native Python solutions.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov 16 18:06:06 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:06:06 -0500
Subject: adaptation (was: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it)
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com><20041114200132.20649.1982992758.divmod.quotient.5222@ohm><mailman.6390.1100553070.5135.python-list@python.org><1gnbf8z.mirt8m687hvbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com><mailman.6397.1100570319.5135.python-list@python.org><1gnc2jt.uw5i19s61aieN%aleaxit@yahoo.com><mailman.6409.1100591151.5135.python-list@python.org><1gncdvv.1y2msbz1yc1gaeN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cxomd.93401$HA.21918@attbi_s01>
Message-ID: <cne14p$13c$1@sea.gmane.org>

>example?

The example used in the Zope3 programmer tutorial:

You have database of (USA) Buddy objects, each with firstname, lastname, 
streetaddress, zipcode, and email fields.  You want to use them in a 
context that requires the (redundant) city and state fields.  So you write 
a zip to city/state lookup function and then an ExpandedBuddy adapter that 
gets the zip from the adapted Buddy, calls city_state(zip), and packages 
the result together as needed in the usage context.

Terry J. Reedy





From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Nov 23 13:13:09 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:13:09 -0800
Subject: Is there a consensus on how to check a polymorphic instance?
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>
	<Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <donn-910064.10130823112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw at rogers.com>,
 "Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote:
> "Steven Bethard" <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:lkCod.88653$5K2.13406 at attbi_s03...

> > The big question, I guess, is what do you want to happen if a user did not 
> > inherit from your base class, but still provides all the appropriate 
> > functionality?  In a dynamically-typed language like Python the answer is 
> > usually that the user's class should still be considered valid, though of 
> > course there are exceptions to this rule.
> 
> I have a question here, as we are discussing now protocol interfaces vs. 
> inheritance.  Is using a class that implements a protocol without inheriting 
> from a base class still "polymorphism"?  There are probably many definitions 
> for polymorphism and probably all those definitions can be interpreted in 
> such a way that they accept also protocols.  But what I would like to hear 
> is what is the general opinion of people who use python.  I am biased 
> because I come from a C++ and Java background and I am still used to a 
> certain practical meaning for "polymorphism".  But it's beginning to dawn on 
> me that it is only a bias and polymorphism does apply also to python 
> protocol interfaces.  Is that generally accepted?

Not only are there many definitions of polymorphism, there are
several kinds of polymorphism, each with many definitions.  You
could spend some time with a web search engine and get lots of
reading material on this, and I think you would find that a good
deal of it is coming from a point of view that kind of tends to
ignore object oriented programming altogether.  Check it out.
If you want to stay with the more immediately relevant OOP
thinking on this, search for polymorphism and smalltalk.

Note that C++ and Java need two mechanisms in support of something
approximating parametric polymorphism.  The subtype polymorphism
I think you're thinking of is the classic OO device, but it doesn't
support really generic functions and types.  The template system
has been bolted onto these languages (I gather Java has one now)
for this purpose.  With these two mechanisms, they more or less
support parametric polymorphism, in a statically typed, compiled
language.  Python is not statically typed, of course, so where
the literature about parametric polymorphism focuses on types
you have to decide for yourself how important that is in principle.
In the end it of course doesn't really matter what you call it.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sun Nov 14 13:43:10 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 12:43:10 -0600
Subject: Tkinter and Graphics
In-Reply-To: <10pf6ersh138jbe@corp.supernews.com> (Andrew's message of "Sun,
	14 Nov 2004 21:46:27 -0800")
References: <10pf6ersh138jbe@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <m3pt2ge0g1.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "Andrew" == Andrew  <nobody at hotmail.com> writes:

    Andrew> Hi I was wondering if there is anyway in Tkinter to create
    Andrew> GUIs using Graphics, like windows media player or other
    Andrew> tools like that

    Andrew> basically so the interface wouldn't be your standard
    Andrew> interface

    Andrew> any ideas, links to tutorials, or examples

    Andrew> is appreciated

This sounds like enthought's enable toolkit, which is still under
development.  Basically, they use the antigrain graphics library to
develop their own GUI widgets, which can then be embedded in a tk
graphic's canvas, at gtk drawing area, a wx panel, etc.  Though enable
doesn't support all of these GUIs currently, I believe, it can in
principle.

  http://svn.enthought.com/svn/enthought

I've often wished for something like this in developing matplotlib,
because a lot of work goes into supporting multiple GUIs, and it would
be nice to have a core set of widgets that port across GUIs.  Another
approach is anygui, which I've been meaning to look into...

JDH




From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Nov  5 05:28:55 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 02:28:55 -0800
Subject: CGIs and file exclusion
References: <2uvedvF2g1pv3U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0411050228.aea8068@posting.google.com>

"darkhorse" <not_my_address at terra.es> wrote in message news:<2uvedvF2g1pv3U1 at uni-berlin.de>...
> Hi all,
> 
> While doing a quite big "set of programs" for a university subject I've
> found myself in the middle of a problem someone surely has had before, so
> I'm looking for some help.
> 
> At one point, I call a python cgi that pickle.load's a file, adds or deletes
> a registry and dumps the result again in the file.
> I'm worried that the cgi could be called simultaneously from two or more
> different computers, thus most probably corrupting the files. I don't think
> I can use a mutex as it's two different instances of the program and not
> different threads, so I was thinking about locking the files between
> programs, but I really don't know how to do that. It's not a problem if
> there's no portable way of doing this, it's only going to be run on a linux
> based computer.
> Another solution I would accept is that the second called cgi detects that
> other instance is running and displays a message saying to try again later.
> Yes, not quite professional, but it'd do the job, after all this is just a
> little detail I want to settle for a quite picky professor and not a "real
> life" thing.
> I think that's all the background you need, if someone can answer with
> references on what should I look for or even better example code that would
> be simply great.
> Many thanks in advance.
> DH

A simple solution that doesn't scale well is to create a file when the
access starts. You can check if the file exists and pause until the
other process deletes it - with a timeout in case the file gets keft
there due to an error.

Obviously not an industrial strength solution, but it does work...

import time
import os

def sleep(thelockfile, sleepcycle=0.01, MAXCOUNT=200):
    """Sleep until the lockfile has been removed or a certain number
of cycles have gone.
    Defaults to a max 2 second delay.
    """
    counter = 0
    while os.path.exists(thelockfile):
        time.sleep(sleepcycle)
        counter += 1
        if counter > MAXCOUNT: break
        
def createlock(thelockfile):
    """Creates a lockfile from the path supplied."""
    open(thelockfile, 'w').close()
    
def releaselock(thelockfile):
    """Deletes the lockfile."""
    if os.path.isfile(thelockfile):
        os.remove(thelockfile)

The sleep function waits until the specified file dissapears - or it
times out.

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From stan at saticed.me.uk  Tue Nov  2 12:40:25 2004
From: stan at saticed.me.uk (stan at saticed.me.uk)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 17:40:25 GMT
Subject: function object and copies of variables
Message-ID: <20041102174025.GA26478@marge.cehill.co.uk>


can a function object store values so this 3 liner can print 0 1 instead
of 1 1?

f = []
for i in [0, 1]: f.append(lambda: i)
for j in f: print j()


TIA


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Nov 14 10:09:21 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 09:09:21 -0600
Subject: .pyc files...
In-Reply-To: <41976617_1@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <mailman.6344.1100420809.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<419726bf$0$521$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<41976617_1@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <16791.29985.807526.318735@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Kent> But PEP 304 seems to be abandoned, if I read the record correctly.
    Kent> It has an incomplete patch that is almost two years old and no
    Kent> activity since then. PEP 320 (Python 2.4 Release Schedule) says

I guess "abandoned" is the appropriate term.  There were problems raised
with how this would work on Windows and I lost interest.  (The current
scheme works pretty well for me.  I wrote PEP 304 more for pedantic reasons
and to address other peoples' concerns.)  It shouldn't be hard to resurrect
if there are some folks with Windows experience willing to help solve those
problems.

    Kent> The biggest stumbling block seems to be the lack of a patch for
    Kent> Windows, though the *nix is also incomplete.

Ideally, the patch, when complete, should just be a single patch.

Skip


From saynotodevilspam at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 28 22:04:24 2004
From: saynotodevilspam at yahoo.com (Yet Another Mike)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 03:04:24 GMT
Subject: graphics
References: <mailman.6856.1101671940.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ukwqd.480806$D%.296167@attbi_s51>

You'll need wxPython. Once you get that, look in the samples for pySketch. 
This is a very straightforward program that helped me learn a lot about GUI 
with wxPython. Pretty easy to do. Once you get a hang for the basics, then 
you might be interested in wxGlade, an interactive GUI designer.  wxGlade is 
more advanced than you need for your request. 




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Nov  1 17:38:25 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 15:38:25 -0700
Subject: Why is heapify linear?
In-Reply-To: <4186cb77$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <4186cb77$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <20041101153502.0C5F.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Scott David Daniels <Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org> wrote:
> 
> I am sorry, but in the Python 2.4 description of "heapify", I find the
> description of "Transform list x into a heap, in-place, in linear time,"
> unbelievable.  I understand the hand-wave that makes dictionary building
> linear (though I have a hard time with even that).  Could somebody tell
> me what twist of logic makes "heapify" linear, except in the sense that
> linear is coming to mean "very fast?"

It has to do with the amount of work done by doing the heapify operation
from the bottom up.

Using ugly ascii-art math, we get the following work for heapifying from
the bottom up:

   log(n)   i*n
    SUM    ----
    i=1    2**i

That sum is known to converge to 2n from below (there is a simple
picture that I can present that will prove it to you, if desired). 2n is
O(n). Hence linear.


 - Josiah



From sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au  Wed Nov 10 20:34:04 2004
From: sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au (Sam Holden)
Date: 11 Nov 2004 01:34:04 GMT
Subject: distutils and Debian
References: <4192AD69.5040707@sympatico.ca>
	<slrncp5cf6.v8.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<qeGdnUA1FNXrJw_cRVn-oA@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <slrncp5gcc.243.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:03:51 -0500,
	Istvan Albert <ialbert at mailblocks.com> wrote:
> Sam Holden wrote:
>
>
>>>Should this be reported as a Debian bug?
>
>> No.
>
> I would say yes ... there is no logic in crippling
> a standard python distribution. What else is missing?

If it's anything like perl then lots of things. But they
are easily installed via their seperate packages. 

The documentation being the big obvious thing.
Tkinter being another.

The logic might be to make small installs possible. If all
of "standard python" was put in one package then debian
couldn't use python for writing things which might be 
wanted on small systems.

It might also make sense to split "pure python" and "binary"
packages up since the "pure python" packages might be sharable
across architecures, but I don't think that is done.

"no logic" seems a bit extreme. Cost exceeding the benefit 
might be true, but of the top of my head there's two vaguely
"logical" reasons.

-- 
Sam Holden


From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 18 10:45:52 2004
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:45:52 +0000
Subject: SPARK v.s. PLY
In-Reply-To: <ed89f8f2.0411180648.49ac6763@posting.google.com>
References: <ed89f8f2.0411180648.49ac6763@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <jq3nd.42173$Z14.17083@news.indigo.ie>

[Tran Tuan Anh]
> I am searching for a suitable parsing tool to parse C++ for a research
> project.

and

> If you know the parsing stuff well, could you briefly tell me the
> pros. and cons. of those packages? (or some others you find good too)

You might find Martin von Loewis paper "Towards a Standard Parser 
Generator" useful. It discusses the pros and cons of multiple python 
parser frameworks, in the concrete context of implementing xpath 
expression parsing. It discusses SPARK, but not PLY.

http://www.python.org/sigs/parser-sig/towards-standard.html

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
------------------------------------------------------
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/contact/alan


From ian at kirbyfooty.com  Wed Nov 24 19:01:21 2004
From: ian at kirbyfooty.com (Ian Cook)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 16:01:21 -0800
Subject: Newbie requires help me on how to use the ZipFile module please.
Message-ID: <8cf64c3d.0411241601.feca1f7@posting.google.com>

Hi,
Can someone PLEASE shed some light on using the ZipFile module
correctly.
I'm new to python so please excuse me if this is a 'dumb' question.

If I use mode='a' then what happens is the zip file just gets bigger
and bigger as the SAME file is appended to the zipfile.

If I use mode='w' then what happens is the zip file is erased before
adding files to it. Therefore I lose the files that were in the
original file zipfile.

What I want is to use the ZipFile module to UPDATE an existing zip
file, rather than append, or create a new zip file. The zip file then
contains my original files and any updated files.

Does anyone know how this can be done with the Zipfile module?

This is a snippet of the code I have now..

                try:
                    zf = zipfile.ZipFile(zfname,mode='a')
                except:
                    zf = zipfile.ZipFile(zfname,mode='w')
                    
                for name in cutflist:
                    fp = os.path.join(root,name)
                    print "adding ",fp,"...",
                    compresstype = zipfile.ZIP_DEFLATED
                    if zipfile.is_zipfile(fp):
                        compresstype = zipfile.ZIP_STORED
                    zf.write(fp,compress_type=compresstype)
                    print 'done.'



Thanks in advance.

Ian Cook
(Freeware author of Kirby Alarm And Task Scheduler)
http://www.kirbyfooty.com/


From mauriceling at acm.org  Tue Nov  9 16:29:05 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice Ling)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:29:05 +1100
Subject: possible to pass python objects into java without jython?
In-Reply-To: <4190BFE0.5080507@bellsouth.net>
References: <4190A2DE.6040505@acm.org> <4190BFE0.5080507@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <419136A1.8030601@acm.org>

Jeremy Jones wrote:

> Maurice Ling wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have read that this had been asked before but there's no 
>> satisfactory replies then.
>>
>> I have a module (pA) written in python, which originally is called by 
>> another python module (pB), and passes a python object (pO) to pB. 
>> Now I require pA to be called in a java class (jC) and pass pO into 
>> jC. As pA uses non-python modules, I am not able to use Jython on this.
>>
>> Are there any way out in this?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Maurice
>
> How about:
>
>     * XMLRPC
>     * SOAP
>     * a messaging queue of some sort (pA or pB - I'm a little unclear
>       on which is the starting point - could put pO in a message queue
>       and jC could pick it up)
>     * serialize the Python object to disk in an intermediate format
>       (say, XML) and have the Java process pick it up
>     * CORBA
>
> Without more details, and some clarification, that's the best I can 
> do.  Are you sure you meant to say pA is called by pB, or is it the 
> other way around?  If pA is being called, it really can't pass pO to 
> pB, unless you've got a callback setup.
>
>
> Jeremy Jones

Say this scenario...

pA.py contains
imports (something non-pure python)
def A(n):
    ...(does something)...
    returns pO

pB.py comtains
import pA
def B(n):
    (does something)
    x = pA.A(n)
    (does more things)

How can I get Java to call pA.A function and then receives the object it 
returns? I am considering SOAP or CORBA, but just wondering if there is 
any other ways without resorting to network or socket programming, since 
all modules are on the same machine?

Thanks
Maurice

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From skip at pobox.com  Tue Nov 30 13:49:50 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:49:50 -0600
Subject: comment out more than 1 line at once?
In-Reply-To: <41ACBAD6.60704@q-voz.com>
References: <cohc71$2pqli$1@claire.desy.de>
	<Xns95B1B4E0EFF52ukcoREMOVEfreenetrtw@130.133.1.4>
	<41ACBAD6.60704@q-voz.com>
Message-ID: <16812.49358.844099.146116@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> if False:
    >> 
    >> (indented) block of code here is commented out

    >> I've no idea how efficient it is compared to triple-quoted strings or
    >> line by line comments.

    Gustavo> Actually, it's infinitly [sp?] more defficient (contrary of
    Gustavo> efficient?) than triple-quoted strings or line-by-line
    Gustavo> comments, because those two never make it to execution stage,
    Gustavo> because they're dropped by the compiler. :-)

If you use 'if 0:' the 2.4 byte code compiler also deletes it:

    >>> import dis
    >>> def f(a):
    ...   if False:
    ...     return a
    ...   return a+1
    ... 
    >>> dis.dis(f)
      2           0 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (False)
                  3 JUMP_IF_FALSE            8 (to 14)
                  6 POP_TOP             

      3           7 LOAD_FAST                0 (a)
                 10 RETURN_VALUE        
                 11 JUMP_FORWARD             1 (to 15)
            >>   14 POP_TOP             

      4     >>   15 LOAD_FAST                0 (a)
                 18 LOAD_CONST               1 (1)
                 21 BINARY_ADD          
                 22 RETURN_VALUE        
    >>> def g(a):
    ...   if 0:
    ...     return a
    ...   return a+1
    ... 
    >>> dis.dis(g)
      4           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (a)
                  3 LOAD_CONST               1 (1)
                  6 BINARY_ADD          
                  7 RETURN_VALUE        

The 'if False:' case isn't optimized because you can (today, anyway)
redefine or override False.

Skip


From pythongnome at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 23 08:03:28 2004
From: pythongnome at hotmail.com (Lucas Raab)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 13:03:28 GMT
Subject: instant messenging
In-Reply-To: <Xns95AABCDD15E3JanC@213.118.46.53>
References: <d01od.8535$Qh3.3891@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<2004112108293216807%craig@yumaca>
	<TZtod.9969$Qh3.8066@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<Xns95AABCDD15E3JanC@213.118.46.53>
Message-ID: <AyGod.9485$pK6.551@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>

JanC wrote:
> Lucas Raab schreef:
> 
> 
>>Ah, could you possibly have a zip file?? I looked on your site and 
>>downloaded the BZ2 file, but I'm not sure how to extract it. I have 
>>Cygwin for another application, but I don't know how to get the files 
>>out the BZ2. So either a ZIP file or instructions on extracting files in 
>>  BZ2 files would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> 
> I think Cygwin has bzip2 & tar to extract files from .bz2 archives?
> 
> If you prefer a GUI application, try 7-Zip:
> <http://www.7-zip.org/>
> (version 3.13, don't use 4.x yet)
> 
> 

It does have both of those, but I;m not sure how to get them to act in 
concert with each other.


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 12:39:45 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:39:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <loom.20041104T175810-307@post.gmane.org>
	<20041104172742.23443.474029896.divmod.quotient.1435@ohm>
Message-ID: <loom.20041104T183457-271@post.gmane.org>

<exarkun <at> divmod.com> writes:
>
> Python 2.3 (#3, Jan 26 2004, 21:50:33)
> [GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import intrinsics, become
> >>> class phpstr(str):
> ...     def __setitem__(self, index, value):
> ...             become.memwrite(id(self) + 20 + index, str(value)[0])
> ... 
> >>> oldstr = intrinsics.replace(str, phpstr)
> >>> foo = 'abc'
> >>> foo[0] = 65
> >>> foo
> '6bc'

Oooh!  So dirty! ;)

I've never used the intrinsics module (and Googled, but apparently didn't search
for the right thing), but does this do a global replace?  E.g. if my module
imports some module that calls intrinsics.replace(str, phpstr), are all the uses
of str in my module then replaced with phpstr's?

Steve



From pierre.barbier at cirad.fr  Fri Nov  5 08:22:29 2004
From: pierre.barbier at cirad.fr (Pierre Barbier de Reuille)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 14:22:29 +0100
Subject: sys.stdout  .>_<.
In-Reply-To: <cmfj0e$gcp$1@netnews.hinet.net>
References: <cmfj0e$gcp$1@netnews.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <418b7e2f$0$30017$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

It's not possible !

stdout is usually a pipe ... and you cannot go back in a pipe ...
Try with any pipe you should have the same result.

The only way toi achieve this is to assume an ANSI terminal and to use 
ANSI codes to go back ("\r" to go at the beginning of the line "^h" to 
go back one char)

Leon a ?crit :
> import os,sys
> a = os.fdopen(sys.stdout.fileno(),"w")
> b = os.fdopen(sys.stdout.fileno(),"w")
> a.write("test1 ")
> b.write("test2 ")
> 
> stdout result is
> 
> test1 test2
> 
> but use general file object such as...
> 
> a = open("test.txt","w")
> b = open("test.txt","w")
> a.write("test1")
> b.write("test2")
> 
> the "test.txt" file content is
> 
> test2
> 
> how to do this result to sys.stdout
> 
> 


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Nov 24 15:33:37 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:33:37 -0600
Subject: teaching OO
In-Reply-To: <slrncq9krh.npu.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
References: <slrncq8inq.9gv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>	<mailman.6761.1101319629.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncq9krh.npu.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <41A4F021.7080700@colorstudy.com>

Gabriel Zachmann wrote:
> Another question is: can you teach effectively the inner workings, if you
> teach only a dynamic language?

To a degree, maybe not.  But I don't think that's the place to start -- 
to me the foundation of CS is abstract algorithmic thought, not a CPU; 
math, not electronics.  Again, that's not a perspective everyone agrees 
with, some feel it's best to start with assembler.

But then, if you are writing assembler, there's a good chance now that 
you'd be writing MIX or some other fake assembler for a fake CPU.  I can 
imagine approaching that from Python -- code an assembler and virtual 
CPU in Python, and start programming it.  To the degree that the virtual 
CPU looks like real CPUs, you learn about processors.  The assembler 
teaches the beginning of compiler design.

The next level up -- C, where you are dealing with pointers and memory 
management -- probably isn't feasible from Python.  In assembler you are 
only writing trivial programs, so it's not a big deal that it's slow; 
you can't realistically implement either C or an efficient runtime 
environment in Python; even if you could, the task would be too large. 
But that's okay, C still has an important role in a CS education.  I'm 
less certain about C++ -- it's neither low level nor high level.

And since Java or C# will almost inevitably be taught at some point, 
most of C++'s features and complications are not novel, again making C 
seem more reasonable.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From onurb at xiludom.gro  Wed Nov 24 20:16:07 2004
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 02:16:07 +0100
Subject: Global surprise
In-Reply-To: <co2vp1$ec9$1@namru.matavnet.hu>
References: <co2vp1$ec9$1@namru.matavnet.hu>
Message-ID: <41a5305e$0$18593$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Nick a ?crit :
> Hello,
> 
> It must be simple but it seems I misunderstand scopes in Python... :(
> 
> Could someone out there please explain to me why this is printed?
> 2 {0: 1, 1: 1}
> instead of
> 2 {}
> 
> Thanks.
>  N.
> 
> ---- test.py ----
> 
> g = 0
> di = {}
> 
> def test():
>   global g
>   di[g] = 1
>   g += 1
> 
> test()
> test()
> 
> print g, di
> 
> 

Because di is a global variable, modified by the test() function (which 
is a Bad Thing(tm) BTW).

Try this :
g = 0
di = {}

def test():
   global g
   di = {g : 1}
   g += 1

Here you create a local di variable, and bind a new dict to it, so it 
doesnt look for another di variable in the enclosing (here the global) 
scope.

Keep in mind that modifying the state of an object (your code) is not 
the same thing as binding an object to a variable (my code).

HTH
Bruno


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Nov  4 07:53:49 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 13:53:49 +0100
Subject: question for sys.stdout
References: <cmcpg0$a5k$1@netnews.hinet.net>
	<4189ec52$0$6282$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<cmcvqb$njd$1@netnews.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <cmd8ot$k1o$02$5@news.t-online.com>

> how to replace sys.stdout to file-like object ?

sys.stdout = open("/this/is/so/simple", "w")

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From export at hope.cz  Mon Nov 29 13:29:56 2004
From: export at hope.cz (Lad)
Date: 29 Nov 2004 10:29:56 -0800
Subject: Question on sorting
Message-ID: <81a41dd.0411291029.4cff137d@posting.google.com>

Hi,
I have a file of records of 4 fields each.
Each field is separated by a semicolon. That is

Filed1;Ffield2;Field3;Field4

But there may be also empty records such as
;;;;
(only semicolons).

For sorting I used
#################
lines = file('Config.txt').readlines()# a file I want to sort
lines.sort()
ff=open('ConfigSorted.txt','w')# sorted file
ff.writelines(lines)
ff.close()
###############
It was sorted but empty records were first. I need them to be last(at
the end of the file). How can I do that?

Thanks for help
Lad


From bj_666 at gmx.net  Mon Nov 29 16:47:30 2004
From: bj_666 at gmx.net (Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 22:47:30 +0100
Subject: The use of :
References: <89cc6e1f.0411251858.40b6bbc7@posting.google.com>	<pan.2004.11.26.08.33.40.219098@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>	<89cc6e1f.0411260953.4b6b98e7@posting.google.com>	<zyUpd.6$d74.2@read3.inet.fi>
	<41aa1abb$0$25542$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.29.20.02.47.372862@gmx.net>

In <41aa1abb$0$25542$636a15ce at news.free.fr>, bruno modulix wrote:

> <please-someone-correct-me-if-i-am-wrong>
> In fact, from a purely technical POV, the ':' could have been omitted 
> from the Python syntax, since indentation does the whole job of defining 
> blocks. It's only here for readability AFAIK.
> </please-someone-correct-me-if-i-am-wrong>

The ':' serves as a very good hint to "python aware" text editors to
automagically indent the next line after hitting return.

Ciao,
	Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Fri Nov 26 06:25:54 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 09:25:54 -0200
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <vtadq05nljtb7hatf77t3lfvttkajlt2s6@4ax.com>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.23.07.09.08.229463@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<zn18e7pm.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.24.07.36.24.700146@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<mailman.6746.1101289610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<vtadq05nljtb7hatf77t3lfvttkajlt2s6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041126032529c9ce0b@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 20:11:47 -0800, Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >I think that Delphi is *so* underated when it comes to language &
> >framework design... Delphi suffered from a couple of problems; first,
> >it was Pascal's child, and not C; also, because it was a proprietary
> >project, owned by a single company.
> >
> >For some reason, being a Pascal descendant was regarded as a big "no"
> >by a huge part of the industry, not to mention academia, that was at
> >that time fascinated with the prospect of C++. I wonder what could
> >have happened if Delphi (maybe with another name -- P++ anyone?) was
> >widely adopted instead of C++ for big projects...
> 
> You are absolutely correct.  I have never understood the industry prejudice
> against Delphi.  The code is just as efficient as the typical C compiler.
> GUI design in the IDE has always been easier in Delphi than in Visual
> Studio.  VCL is easier to understand than MFC

Not to mention that Delphi is way 'saner' (sic?) than either VB and
VC++ when it comes to weird features & behavior. But it also strikes
to me that a lot of Delphi folks are now Python converts. It seems
that, in a sense, Delphi managed to be a step in the right direction;
in a time where everyone was jumping in the C++ bloat wagon, Delphi
was clearly a much better choice in terms of language & environment
design. Of course, now Delphi is nearly dead, but we have Python :-)

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl  Wed Nov 24 13:08:09 2004
From: fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl (Maciej Dziardziel)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:08:09 +0100
Subject: Is there any tools to create User Interface (Dialogs...) for
	wxPython visually?
References: <41a4adf0$0$17787$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <20041124180809.9E7.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>

App wrote:

> I am looking for something like VB6.0 IDE to design visually UI et
> application but using Python.
> 
> Thank you for your help.


All popular gui toolkits have such utility (wxWidgets, gtk, qt).
ie. look at glade (gtk gui builder):  http://glade.gnome.org/

-- 
Maciej "Fiedzia" Dziardziel (fiedzia (at) fiedzia (dot) prv (dot) pl)
www.fiedzia.prv.pl

Give your children these two things. One is roots, the other, wings.


From lashkariNO at SPAMworldviz.com  Thu Nov 11 13:51:03 2004
From: lashkariNO at SPAMworldviz.com (Farshid Lashkari)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:51:03 GMT
Subject: Problem flushing stderr in embedded python
References: <VoRjd.33$iY3.7@trnddc01>
	<aa1af1ad.0411082048.6432d122@posting.google.com>
	<DW7kd.2069$z_4.652@trnddc07> <1100065836.697971@yasure>
	<drukd.642$ho6.442@trnddc05> <1100156058.567069@yasure>
Message-ID: <rwOkd.51$wc.50@trnddc04>

Well I've somewhat solved my problem. First off, the 'y' problem was just an
error I purposely created in order to trigger an exception. My application
uses a bunch of calls to PyObject_Call to run python code. After each of
these calls I added:

if(PyErr_Occurred()) PyErr_Print();

This will force the errors to be printed to stderr, and now calling the
flush method on the stderr object works. I still don't understand why
running the string "sys.stderr.flush()" is different. Maybe it forces any
current errors to be printed and then flushes them too. My app doesn't
replace the python stderr object either.

Anyways, thanks to everybody for your help and suggestions.

-Farshid

"Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> wrote in message
news:1100156058.567069 at yasure...
> Quoth "Farshid Lashkari" <lashkariNO at SPAMworldviz.com>:
> ...
> | I've tried calling fflush on stderr, but that doesn't work either.
>
> OK, this would seem to mean that your sys.stderr has been replaced
> with something else.  I guess I don't know for sure what you can
> count on in Windows, but I would have to expect that fflush on stderr
> really does work - that is, it flushes stderr's buffer.
>
> | I've encountered another weird problem also. If my python code causes an
> | error and I don't flush stderr, then I get a runtime error when my app
> | exits. It also prints out:
> |
> | Exception exceptions.NameError: "global name 'y' is not defined" in
'garbage
> | collection' ignored
> | Fatal Python error: unexpected exception during garbage collection.
> |
> | Does this give anybody a clue as to what's happening?
>
> Doesn't do anything for me, but you may find out what that is when you
> locate the code for the faux stderr you're (not) flushing.  I would be
> more worried about this 'y' thing in principle, though, because it sounds
> like a problem in the C (or whatever) to Python interface that could have
> other unpleasant consequences.
>
> Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com




From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Wed Nov 10 14:20:13 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:20:13 -0500
Subject: get element text in DOM?
In-Reply-To: <419269BE.6040903@bellsouth.net>
References: <1100113869.1638.9.camel@swdb> <419269BE.6040903@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <419269ED.6020009@bellsouth.net>

Sorry - my send finger got a little trigger happy.  Let's try again.

Jeremy Jones wrote:

> Juliano Freitas wrote:
>
>>How can i get the text between the <teste> tags??
>>
>>  
>>
>>>>>xml = """<root><teste> texto </teste></root>"""
>>>>>from xml.dom import minidom
>>>>>document = minidom.parseString(xml)
>>>>>document
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>><xml.dom.minidom.Document instance at 0x4181df0c>
>>  
>>
>>>>>minidom.getElementsByTagName('teste')
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>
>>  
>>
>>>>>element = document.getElementsByTagName('teste')
>>>>>element
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>[<DOM Element: teste at 0x418e110c>]
>>  
>>
>>>>>element[0].nodeType
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>1
>>
>>Juliano Freitas
>>
>>
>>  
>>
> How about something like this:
>
>
>
In [24]: from xml.dom import minidom

In [25]: x = """<root><teste> texto </teste></root>"""

In [26]: document = minidom.parseString(x)

In [27]: print 
document.documentElement.getElementsByTagName('teste')[0].childNodes[0].data


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From rkern at ucsd.edu  Thu Nov 25 00:35:24 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 21:35:24 -0800
Subject: Use Python library from C++
In-Reply-To: <89cc6e1f.0411241939.61a19596@posting.google.com>
References: <89cc6e1f.0411241939.61a19596@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <co3qur$qdl$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Chang LI wrote:
> I want to use the Python Libray from my C++ program.
> The Python Libray is no GUI. How can I mix C++ and 
> Python? 
> 
> One way is to run PY library as an independent process.
> Another way is to start PY as a C++ thread. 
> The third way is to run Python engine as part of the C++. 
> Which way is better?
> 
> No intention to access all the Python's code but only 
> access APIs of a module.

Try Elmer.

http://elmer.sf.net

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 14:44:52 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:44:52 GMT
Subject: Python's annoyance.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6762.1101324346.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6762.1101324346.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Uw5pd.561764$mD.330776@attbi_s02>

Jp Calderone wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:03:26 GMT, Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>While I'm not a fan of the decorator syntax or the $syntax in 
>>string.Template, you're not forced to use either of these:
> 
> You may not be forced to write them
[snip]
> it is likely that you will be forced to *read* them.
[snip]
> the argument "If you don't like that feature, don't use it" is
> relatively meritless.

Well, it's certainly true that reading code is often a more important 
concern, but I'm not sure I agree that the issue's as black and white as 
you seem to want to draw it.  If 90% of people don't use the features, 
then I only have to read them 10% of the time.  So the more people I 
convince not to use the feature, the less code that gets written with 
the feature, and the easier my reading gets. ;)

Of course, I still have to be able to read both syntactic variants, but 
I don't have to read them *all the time*.  If I have to look up an 
unfamiliar variant occasionally, I don't see this as any worse than 
having to look up a library module's functions occasionally[1].

Steve

[1] Since string.Template *is* a library module, I don't see looking up 
what the $-syntax means as being any worse than, say, reading the re 
module docs again (which I have to do pretty much every time I decide to 
use regexps).


From fake at not-real.bogus  Wed Nov 10 18:08:08 2004
From: fake at not-real.bogus (Matt Garman)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 23:08:08 GMT
Subject: saving curses screen state (putwin() and getwin() again)
References: <slrncp37ds.9c2.fake@sewage.raw-sewage.fake>
	<x77jotplue.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <slrncp57qt.r3u.fake@sewage.raw-sewage.fake>

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:04:09 -0600, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
> > This works as described the *first* time, but subsequent calls to
> > getwin() return the window that was saved with the first call to
> > putwin().  I.e., it's as though only the first call to putwin() has
> > any effect.
> 
>  Yes. Show us some code, please. There are any number of bugs that
>  could cause this behavior, and it'd be easier to narrow things
>  down if we knew what you were actually doing.

I was hoping that the error was well-known or obvious and that
wouldn't be necessary.

Anyway, I posted some code that exhibits this behavior on my
website, http://www.raw-sewage.net/

Specifically, download the following files (and save in a common
directory):

        http://raw-sewage.net/newwin.py
        http://raw-sewage.net/curseschooser.py
        http://raw-sewage.net/cursescolors.py

Then run the script "newwin.py".  You are initially presented with
an option menu; the selection is controlled by either the up and
down arrow keys or 'j' and 'k'.

Example run to duplicate buggy behavior:

    1. Run newwin.py, arrow down to option '3', press enter
    2. The screen will redraw; press 'q' to go back to the menu
    3. The screen should appear in the state you left it when you
       pressed enter from the option menu (i.e. choice 3 selected)
    4. Now choose option 5, press enter
    5. The alternate screen appears, press 'q' to quit it
    6. Now, the screen will re-draw as it did in step (3) above,
       i.e. choice 3 is highlighted, *not* choice 5 where you left
       off
    7. But, if you use the up/down arrow keys, you'll realize that
       the option menu thinks it left off on choice 5 (even though
       it's not highlighted).

The behavior is consistent on my Linux box, running the following
version of Python:

Python 2.3.4 (#1, Oct 17 2004, 14:17:06) 
[GCC 3.3.4 20040623 (Gentoo Linux 3.3.4-r1, ssp-3.3.2-2, pie-8.7.6)]
on linux2

Thanks again!
Matt

-- 
Matt Garman
email at: http://raw-sewage.net/index.php?file=email


From ville at spammers.com  Wed Nov 24 13:12:50 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 20:12:50 +0200
Subject: teaching OO
References: <slrncq8inq.9gv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <du7ekij6rq5.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Gabriel" == Gabriel Zachmann <zach at cs.uni-bonn.de> writes:

    Gabriel> My question now is: do you think I should switch over to
    Gabriel> Python completely (next time), and dump all the
    Gabriel> interesting issues involved in C++'s virtual classes,
    Gabriel> overloading, and templates? (In Python, all of that would
    Gabriel> just disappear ... ;-) )

I don't think virtual classes (as in inheriting from base classes
"virtually" to avoid a certain multiple inheritance problems) is all
that important in this single inheritance favouring world.

The concept of overloading is easy, you can go one step further by
introducing generic functions / multimethods through one of the
modules floating around the net.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From bokr at oz.net  Sat Nov 27 18:59:08 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 23:59:08 GMT
Subject: Subclassing complex with computed arguments
References: <a86143fb.0411251430.50665acf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41a90c3c.1191007398@news.oz.net>

On 25 Nov 2004 14:30:18 -0800, pcolsen at comcast.net (Peter Olsen) wrote:

>I want to define a class "point" as a subclass of complex.  
>
>When I create an instance 
>
>sample = point(<arglist>) 
>
>I want "sample" to "be" a complex number, but with its real and
>imaginary parts computed in point()'s __init__ function with their
>values based on the arglist.  I want to compute with point instances
>as though they were native complex numbers, but I want to be able to
>define some new methods and over-ride some of complex's existing ones.
>
>This is probably very simple, but it hasn't been simple to me.
>
>Please feel free to flame me with RTFM as long as you also tell me
>where in TFM to R.
>
>If you respond, please send a copy directly to me.  I seldom have
>access to this group.  (My primary network isn't connected to the
>internet.)
>
Well, let us know how it goes, and maybe tell the curious what your
application is ;-). BTW, as others have explained, the initialization
of values is done via complex.__new__, not via __init__. You can override that
too, but I just let it be inherited to do its normal thing.

The following is a way to automate wrapping complex so as to return point instances
from the various operations. Not tested beyond what you see, and it won't
be a speed demon, but might be something to explore your concept with.

If you want to add special methods, you can do it like __repr__ and __coerce__
in the example, or you could add them after. Or you could use a proper metaclass
instead of doing it the function way.

 Python 2.4b1 (#56, Nov  3 2004, 01:47:27)
 [GCC 3.2.3 (mingw special 20030504-1)] on win32
 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> class point(complex):
 ...     """complex wrapper subclass point"""
 ...     def __metaclass__(cname, cbases, cdict):
 ...         P = type(cname, cbases, cdict)
 ...         def mkm(name, func):
 ...             def m(*args): return P(func(*args))
 ...             m.__name__ = name
 ...             return m
 ...         for name, func in complex.__dict__.items():
 ...             if callable(func) and name not in ['__coerce__',
 ...                     '__doc__', '__float__', '__getattribute__', '__getnewargs__',
 ...                     '__hash__', '__int__', '__long__', '__new__', '__repr__',
 ...                     '__str__', 'imag', 'real']:
 ...                 setattr(P, name, mkm(name, func))
 ...         def __coerce__(self, other): return self, P(other)
 ...         P.__coerce__ =  __coerce__
 ...         def __repr__(self): return '<point %s>'% complex.__repr__(self)
 ...         P.__repr__ = __repr__
 ...         return P
 ...
 >>> p = point(3, 4)
 >>> p
 <point (3+4j)>
 >>> p+1
 <point (4+4j)>
 >>> p-1
 <point (2+4j)>
 >>> 1-p
 <point (-2-4j)>
 >>> 1+p
 <point (4+4j)>
 >>> p*p
 <point (-7+24j)>
 >>> p*p.conjugate()
 <point (25+0j)>
 >>> abs(p)
 <point (5+0j)>
 >>> print p, type(p), repr(p)
 (3+4j) <class '__main__.point'> <point (3+4j)>
 >>> p.imag
 4.0
 >>> p.real
 3.0

You can explore further, and fix the bugs ;-)
I don't know what __getnewargs__ does, so I left it alone to be inherited.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Nov  4 10:02:01 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 10:02:01 -0500
Subject: yet another recipe on string interpolation
In-Reply-To: <4edc17eb.0411032219.659c1824@posting.google.com>
References: <4edc17eb.0411032219.659c1824@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <NrqdnSXjEc7V3xfcRVn-uw@powergate.ca>

Michele Simionato wrote:
> I was playing with string.Template in Python 2.4 and I came out with the
> following recipe:
> 
> def merge(*dictionaries):
>     """Merge from right (i.e. the rightmost dictionary has the precedence)."""

> Do you have any comments? Suggestions for improvements?

My only comment is about *your* comment, above.  I would
have called the behaviour described "merge from left".
Maybe best just to cut out that part of the comment, and
leave it as "merge where rightmost dictionary has precedence".

Cute recipe though. :-)

-Peter


From loritsch at gmail.com  Fri Nov 19 11:23:57 2004
From: loritsch at gmail.com (Michael Loritsch)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 08:23:57 -0800
Subject: Wrapping a C library in Python
References: <roy-99F088.20103518112004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <e253918f.0411190823.25921d6b@posting.google.com>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote in message news:<roy-99F088.20103518112004 at reader1.panix.com>...
> I've got a C library with about 50 calls in it that I want to wrap in 
> Python.  I know I could use some tool like SWIG, but that will give me a 
> too-literal translation; I want to make some modifications along the way 
> to make the interface more Pythonic.
> 
> For example, all of these functions return an error code (typically just 
> errno passed along, but not always).  They all accept as one of their 
> arguments a pointer to someplace to store their result.  I want to 
> change all that to returning the result directly and throwing exceptions.
> 
> I also want to mutate some of the return types.  A common way these 
> functions return a set of values is a pair of arrays of strings, forming 
> key-value pairs.  In Python, it would make sense to return this as a 
> dictionary.
> 
> I know what I'm describing is kind of vague, but are there tools around 
> which might help automate (at least in part) this translation process?

While SWIG is a strong tool for wrapping C code into many different
langauges, there are definitely better tools out there for producing
python modules from C code.

I recommend both boost::python
(http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/index.html) and ctypes
(http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/), but for very
different reasons.

If wrapped code speed and production of a binary is a goal in creating
your python extensions, use boost::python.  The price you pay for
creating an fast binary python extension is coding your translation
from python in C/C++ in C/C++ (I suppose you could get around this by
creating a boost::python module, and then wrapping it with a python
module to do the type translation).  And in boost::python, C++ to
python exception translation is supported.

If speed of development is your main goal, then I'd use ctypes. 
ctypes will dynamically load the library in python code.  At the
python code level, you should then do the translation to python types.
 No C/C++ coding required.

Hope this helps!

Michael Loritsch


From mwm at mired.org  Thu Nov  4 23:00:15 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 22:00:15 -0600
Subject: pep 336:  Make None Callable
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.5896.1099542209.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2-GdneEPltMGJBTcRVn-3g@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <x73bzpt06o.fsf@guru.mired.org>

The Eternal Squire <eternalsquire at comcast.net> writes:
>> It would be more sensible to promote the addition to builtins of a
>> predefined null function -- one somewhat equivalent to 0, [], and {}.
>
> I'd like to see it standardized, and I'd like to see it intuitively
> obvious.  That's why None appears to me to be such an obvious
> candidate.

How about nop?

The real problem with allowing None to act as a function is that it
turns exceptions into very obscure bugs. Actually, this argument
applies to allowing one to do anything with None.

So I'm against it, even in Python-3000.

   <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From rune.hansen at scanmine.com  Fri Nov 12 05:07:34 2004
From: rune.hansen at scanmine.com (roderik)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:07:34 +0100
Subject: idle on mac os 10.3.5
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.12.02.57.38.224572@gmail.com>
References: <pan.2004.11.12.02.57.38.224572@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <JX%kd.16258$Km6.174867@news4.e.nsc.no>

baza wrote:
> Is there a version of Idle that works under Mac Panther?
> 
> B
Simple answer, yes.

You'll need to get MacPython2.3 for panther from 
http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython/download.html

Install it and launch /Applications/MacPython-2.3/PackageManager. 
Install tkinter.

You may, or may not - can't remember, have to install TclTkAqua-8.4.7 
from http://tcltkaqua.sourceforge.net/

regards
/rune


From neil.benn at gmail.com  Sun Nov  7 12:57:12 2004
From: neil.benn at gmail.com (Neil Benn)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 17:57:12 +0000
Subject: remove assert statement (Was: Re: PEP new assert idiom)
In-Reply-To: <20041107130209.GA3318@nl.linux.org>
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr7n62t0v.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <Lmjjd.2124$Zl2.96@trndny01>
	<7xy8hep325.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<20041107130209.GA3318@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <e3d042c804110709572f00f289@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

         While I get what you are talking about - I think you are
missing the point of an assert function.  If you document an assert
(which you should do) you are saying :- if you give me something which
follows these rules, then I will do this - thankyouverymuch.

   In both Java and Eiffel, you have the option to compile the code
without the assert checking in - giving you a tight debug stuation and
a looser and faster run-time situation (as long as your code is tested
and robust).  However Eiffel's require and ensure are Assert
statements on steroids!!

    A classic text on this is by Bertrand Meyer - the inventor of
Eiffel.  Although Eiffel's philosophy is very different than python's
it's a classic text.  Here's a link to a short article about it :

http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/contract/

Cheers,

Neil

On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 14:02:09 +0100, Gerrit <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote:
> Paul Rubin wrote:
> > "Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> writes:
> > > Why do you need a statement for this?
> > > IMO, a plain function will do the trick:
> >
> > I do write such functions sometimes, but using a statement is more
> > natural.  That's why the assert statement exists, for example.
> 
> I think 'assert' being a statement is on Guido's regrets list. exec and
> print are on his regrets list: both should have been a function. I
> think the same holds for assert, although I'm not sure.
> 
> > statement is very great, and I find myself doing it all the time
> > thinking I'll clean it up later.  So I think having a statement for
> > runtime checking would be in the correct spirit.
> 
> In my opinion, assert is almost useless. It can sometimes be useful for
> debugging purposes, but beyond that, it isn't. The exception raised by
> 'assert' is always AssertionError. That is a major disadvantage, because
> it's not specific. If a method I'm calling would raise an AssertionError
> is some cases, and I want to catch it, I'm catching too much. Creating a
> new exception-class and raising that one is better because of this.
> 
> I don't see the use of a statement like
> "assert isinstance(message, basestring)". It's by far the most common
> use of assert: some assertions about the types of the arguments. This is
> at best redundant. In the case of warnings.py, it's followed by
> re.compile(message, ...). Removing the assertion in this example would result
> in three differences:
>     - The error raised would be TypeError, not AssertionError. Therefore
>       it's more specific and thus easier to catch.
>     - The error would me raised by the re module, not warnings module
>     - The error would be "first argument must be string or compiled
>       pattern" instead of "message must be a string". Therefore, the
>       assertion makes it impossible to pass a compiled pattern instead
>       of a string.
> 
> Duck typing eliminates the use of assert.
> 
> In my opinion, assert should be deprecated and then removed in Py3K:
> assertions are redundant, unspecific, and conflict with the philosophy
> of duck typing and EAFP.
> 
> What do others think of this?
> 
> Gerrit.
> 
> --
> Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 07/11 13:25:
>         12.0?C   wind 3.6 m/s N (57 m above NAP)
> --
> In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of
> unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the
> military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of
> misplaced power exists and will persist.
>     -Dwight David Eisenhower, January 17, 1961
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Nov  7 12:53:28 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 11:53:28 -0600
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c718a6cf.0411061137.683823ec@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6022.1099784038.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<gjcro0lu846okdd6br5col7v20j0gfs99f@4ax.com>
	<mailman.6046.1099808530.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <x7d5ypr1ev.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Maurice LING <mauriceling at acm.org> writes:

>>>>it is comparing versions that are YEARS out of date and use!
>>>
>>> Are the codebase of Python 1.5.2 and Java 1.1 totally replaced and
>>> deprecated?
>> For new development, yes, Python 1.5.2 has been totally replaced.
>> There
>> are legacy applications running in Python 1.5.2 that aren't worth the
>> trouble to upgrade.
>>
>>> Lisp compiler is the 1st compiler to be created (according to the
>>> Red-Dragon book, I think) and almost all others are created by
>>> bootstrapping to LISP compiler.
>> That's just silly.  It is true that LISP was one of the pioneers of
>> the
>> compiled languages, but other compilers were not written in LISP.  Almost
>> without exception, compilers were all written in assembly language until
>> Pascal came around.
>
> I'm wrong again. I suppose what I am trying to suggest is that design
> decisions made in the last may have a longer effect than what we
> consciously think. At least this is the impression I get while reading
> James Gosling's argument that Java should be object-oriented from day
> 1 (and not added onto the language, like in C++) in The Java
> Programming Environment: A white paper.

The design decisions about the syntax and grammar of the languages may
have a longer effect (thought it's not clear how much of Java can be
blamed on CPL). The design decisions about the implementation tend to
vanish every time the language is implemented, and to vanish over time
as an implementation evolves. I'd be surprised if all the 1.5.2 code
has vanished from the complete python distribution. On the other hand,
the core compiler and VM may well have been completely replaced since
then.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From someone at microsoft.com  Sat Nov 27 18:21:19 2004
From: someone at microsoft.com (Jive)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 23:21:19 GMT
Subject: A lock that times out but doesn't poll
References: <slrncq5vvl.61m.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<kGopd.3602822$yk.546791@news.easynews.com>
	<slrncqdtc0.61m.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <PZ7qd.5824942$6p.937369@news.easynews.com>


"Antoon Pardon" <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote in message
news:slrncqdtc0.61m.apardon at rcpc42.vub.ac.be...
>
> What do you mean with a Zombie? The clock thread will remain for as long
> as the timeout, which may be longer then needed but then they disappear,
> so there won't be any real zombies.

Whether you call them zombies or not, they can multiply like crazy and fll
up system memory.




From siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk  Tue Nov  9 11:34:04 2004
From: siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk (Sion Arrowsmith)
Date: 09 Nov 2004 16:34:04 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: sockets: How to know when your data is sent
References: <f00811ba.0411090653.5f6d1d29@posting.google.com>
	<4190e27f$0$95596$a1866201@visi.com>
Message-ID: <K4k*FXdzq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

Grant Edwards  <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>On 2004-11-09, Marc Ederis <mederis at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>  When I use the send function, it will
>> happily send a buffer of a megabyte and more in one shot. But
>> of course, the data is still in the network buffer... 
>>  [ ... ] The
>> problem is, how can I know when it's done?
>Under Linux, there is no way to tell.  IIRC, there's no way to
>tell under BSD either.  I actually wrote some kernel mode code
>once upon a time to provide an ioctl() that I could call from
>user space to find out when the data I had written to a socket
>was actually sent.

I may well be missing the point of the problem here, but wouldn't
just turning TCP_NODELAY on guarantee that send() won't return
until the last ACK has returned? And if you're not using TCP:

>The way to tell that data has been sent is to use an
>application-level protocol that acknowleges the data transferr.

applies in spades if you care about reliability.

-- 
\S -- siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk -- http://www.chaos.org.uk/~sion/
  ___  |  "Frankly I have no feelings towards penguins one way or the other"
  \X/  |    -- Arthur C. Clarke
   her nu become? se bera eadward ofdun hl?ddre heafdes b?ce bump bump bump


From andrea.valle at unito.it  Tue Nov  2 18:27:05 2004
From: andrea.valle at unito.it (andrea valle)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 00:27:05 +0100
Subject: pickling a dict
In-Reply-To: <20041102083027.F7CC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <783d0f8c.0411012330.4172d1d4@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.02.08.46.20.216993@gmx.de>
	<20041102083027.F7CC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <B5679585-2D26-11D9-A5F6-0003939C968C@unito.it>

I was saving on a file three dicts, for a total of ca. 950 keys (that 
is: 24 kb).

In order to reopen the file,  first I read the three lines and used on 
each eval(item).
This rude approach worked: but it took me some minutes to load the data.
So I used pickle (and also cPickle) supposing it should be much more 
efficient. But it takes exactly the same.
Is it normal?

When I manipulate the loaded data ad draw the on screen the updated 
result, everything is very fast.

  This are my two methods bound to a tk view:

     def save(self, event):
         # first approach
         ## self.file = file("/Graph/default.gra", "w")
         ## self.file.write(str(self.model.verticesDict)+"\n")
         ## self.file.write(str(self.model.edgesDict)+"\n")
         ## self.file.write(str(self.model.trajectoryDict)+"\n")
         ## self.file.close()
         self.file= file("/Graph/pickle.gra", "w")
         pickle.dump(self.model.verticesDict, self.file)
         pickle.dump(self.model.edgesDict, self.file)
         pickle.dump(self.model.trajectoryDict, self.file)
         self.file.close()

     def open(self, event):
         # first approach
         ## self.file = file("/Graph/default.gra", "r")
         ## verticesDict = eval(self.file.next())
         ## edgesDict = eval(self.file.next())
         ## trajectoryDict = eval(self.file.next())
         self.file = file("/Graph/pickle.gra", "r")
         verticesDict = pickle.load(self.file)
         edgesDict = pickle.load(self.file)
         trajectoryDict = pickle.load(self.file)
         self.model.setVerticesDict(verticesDict)
         self.model.setEdgesDict(edgesDict)
         self.model.setTrajectoryDict(trajectoryDict)

Am I using pickle in a bad way?
Or am I making some other mistake?

Thanks

-a-



Andrea Valle
Laboratorio multimediale "G. Quazza"
Facolt? di Scienze della Formazione
Universit? degli Studi di Torino
andrea.valle at unito.it


From danperl at rogers.com  Tue Nov  2 14:52:18 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 14:52:18 -0500
Subject: general class functions
References: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>
	<kj9eo0hkjem9pbj3pvdbpea6gpl06ighsj@4ax.com>
	<a76ba315.0411021009.46b06459@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <FPWdnS8cTNnreBrcRVn-qw@rogers.com>


"syd" <syd.diamond at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:a76ba315.0411021009.46b06459 at posting.google.com...
> Many many thanks, Andrea and Kent!
>
> To keep changes to calls in my current code to a minimum, I'm hoping I
> can encode Andrea's "on-the-fly" get function.  I added Andrea's
> __getattr__ to my Library() class, populated the class with a few
> nations, and tried:
>
>>>> library.get_continent('Europe')

This line creates and returns an instance of Library.  I assume that you 
imported foo in a python session and then you executed that line.  That 
results in a call to Library.__repr__( ), which is not defined.  First of 
all, I recommend you change class Library to subclass from object.  That's 
just good practice in general and in this case it will give you a default 
__repr__( ) method.  But that's probably not what you want.  What you 
probably want is to still use a line like:
    print library.getContinent('Europe').getNameList()
Otherwise, library.get_continent('Europe') is going to print something like:
    <__main__.Library object at 0x00A9F430>

Dan

> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>  File "foo.py", line 16, in __getattr__
>    return self.__dict__[name]
> KeyError: '__repr__'
>
> I then commented out lines 15 and 16...
>    #else:
>      #return self.__dict__[name]
>
> ... and re-ran.
>
>>>> library.get_continent('Europe')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable
>
> I tweaked a bit, but I could not get to the bottom of this problem.  I
> see the logic here (and it's brilliant I should add, Andrea), but I'm
> not sure what is wrong.
>
> Ideas? 




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  6 16:25:58 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 22:25:58 +0100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<418C7DCB.60502@acm.org>
	<mailman.5997.1099739459.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<62kv52-npq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <1gmun13.6rynz217b0hm1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Roger Binns <rogerb at rogerbinns.com> wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
> >         while ((c = in.read()) != -1)
> >            out.write(c);
> 
> Incidentally, that Java code copies one character at a time.

Yep, I noticed -- pretty silly, but if that's how the Java designers
decided the read method should behave by default, who am I to argue?
Just an example I grabbed off the net, first google hit for (if I recall
correctly) java file reading that had the source of a complete example.

> > outputFile.write(inputFile.read())
> 
> The Python code is reading the entire string into memory and
> then writing it.

Right, _Python_'s default.

> The interpretter overhead vs system calls could be measured
> by having the language involved in every byte transferred as
> in the Java example, or negligibly as in the Python example.

The claim posted to this newsgroup, without any support nor examples
being given, was that Python's I/O was far slower than Java's in
_disk-intensive_ operations.  I'm still waiting to see any small,
verifiable examples of that posted on this thead.

Apparently, at least in default operations on both sides, based on calls
to read without parameters, that is definitely not the case - no doubt,
as you say, that's because of the different ways those defaults are
tuned, making Python much faster.  Great, then let those who claim
Java's I/O is much faster in disk intensive operation post suitable
examples, and we'll see.


> Whenever anyone has an agenda, you can make all sorts of silly
> claims.  IMHO the best thing to do is to lead by examples.

I posted examples -- probably not "leading" ones, just one grabbed off
the net using Java's defaults, and one using Python's defaults.  I'm not
the one making any claims regarding I/O performance of _properly tuned_
disk-intensive programs -- what I would like to see would be some such
examples posted by those who DO make such claims.  Shouldn't the burden
of proof lay on the side making positive assertions, by ordinary rules?!

> For years many people claimed Perl was line noise, hard to
> maintain etc.  I never really saw much response, since the
> Perl people were too busy writing real world code and helping
> deliver part of the web revolution.  (And selling zillions of
> books for O'Reilly :-)

Surely more than we have sold so far with Python, yes - Tim O'Reilly has
published data about that.  Which is why I'm striving to _worsen_ the
quality of Python's free docs until they match Perl's, against heathens
who (can you imagine that!) are instead trying to *improve* them further
(thus no doubt hurting book sales).


> I couldn't find any Python success stories on python.org itself,
> but if you dig you can find the stories for the Python Business
> Forum as well as Pythonology.

Lots of digging, yes, considering that if you google for python success
stories those pbf and pythonology hits are just at the top (other
similar links, such as those to O'Reilly's booklets covering the same
material and their PDF forms, make up the rest of the top-ten pages).

> There are however remarkably few where you can go grab the
> source code and see how it is all put together.  In fact I
> couldn't find a single one, but didn't do an exhaustive
> search from python.org.

Without straying from the top google hit, you can find that some of the
listed success stories are open-source, such as mayavi -- they're
admittedly a minority of the "success stories" listed on these sites.

> Perhaps it is also worth linking to the projects done in
> Python on SourceForge and elsewhere?
> 
>   http://sf.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=178

If the message you're keen to send is "Python is great for open-source",
yes.  If you're focusing on "Python is great for your _business_" (as
the python *business* forum does, for example), then emphasizing
open-source projects can reasonably be considered secondary to
emphasizing projects that make or save money for the businesses which
developed them.

If you're looking for highly visible open-source projects using Python,
I'd think that bittorrent, chandler, zope and plone, mayavi, all the
scipy.org site, twisted, schooltool, ubuntu, and the like, should keep
you in reading materials for a while.  Not sure how many of these
projects are specifically on sourceforge, but I believe some minority
probably is.


Alex


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Nov  3 09:18:14 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 09:18:14 -0500
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
In-Reply-To: <slrncohmqk.n07.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <cthoeigtdun.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
	<slrncohmqk.n07.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <TfOdna4IePwZexXcRVn-pA@powergate.ca>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Op 2004-11-02, Zunbeltz Izaola schreef <zunbeltz at wm.lc.ehu.es.XXX>:
> Yes they can. Unfortunately in order to protect us from ourselves
> the powers that be, decided to only allow this to people who know C
> and have access to a C compilor.
> 
>   int PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc( long id, PyObject *exc)

There was a comment by someone that perhaps ctypes would allow
calling this directly.  I don't know whether that's possible,
but if it is it's probably a fairly simple operation.  I've
used ctypes in a fairly limited fashion, so I suspect it
would take me a while to figure it out, but this much works
anyway:

 >>> import ctypes
 >>> py = ctypes.dll.python23
<CDLL 'python23', handle 1e000000 at 9dfb98>
 >>> py.PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc
<ctypes._CdeclFuncPtr object at 0x0098FB88>

Presumably the "id" above is a non-issue, but I think you
need to do something more complex to get a PyObject reference
to an exception in ctypes... not yet in my repertoire.

A quick test gave this when trying the brainless approach,
with t being a thread and exc a KeyboardInterrupt instance.

 >>> py.PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc(id(t), byref(exc))
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: expected CData instance


Anyone?  Anyone?  Bueller?

-Peter


From wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca  Thu Nov 25 16:22:22 2004
From: wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca (Weiguang Shi)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 21:22:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: dictionary initialization
References: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<opsh1u2sow1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
	<slrncqcchi.i1p.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<opsh1wrqdr1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
	<opsh1wxfkx1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
Message-ID: <slrncqcj8e.ip7.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>

Hi,

In article <opsh1wxfkx1js0xs at news.telkomsa.net>, Caleb Hattingh wrote:
> ...
>  ***
>  # You *must* use a={}, just start as below
>  '>>> a={}
Yeah I know. I can live with that.

>  '>>> a['1']=0
>  '>>> a['1']+=1
Right here. You have to say a['1'] = 0 before you can say a['1'] +=1
Python does not do the former for you. That's what I'm asking
justifications for.

Regards,
Weiguang


From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Tue Nov 16 08:45:15 2004
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:45:15 -0000
Subject: HTMLParser problem
References: <1100610863.75889@eng-ser4>
Message-ID: <cnd1a5$srn$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>


"Valkyrie" <valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk> wrote in message news:1100610863.75889 at eng-ser4...

> <![if !IE]>
>
> HTMLParser.HTMLParseError: unknown declaration: 'if !IE', at line 4, column 1
>
> May I ask why such error is raised?

HTMLParser isn't very forgiving of bad HTML; you feed it syntactically invalid HTML,
it tends to give you errors. That includes Microsoft only extensions like <![if !IE.
Unless you know you have known valid sources it may be best to use one of
the forgiving parsers: Beautiful Soup, UTidylib, libxml etc.. (see many past discussions).
Uche's article: http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2004/09/08/pyxml.html may be of interest.




From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 23:31:14 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 20:31:14 -0800
Subject: yet another recipe on string interpolation
References: <4edc17eb.0411032219.659c1824@posting.google.com>
	<NrqdnSXjEc7V3xfcRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0411042031.65b84885@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<NrqdnSXjEc7V3xfcRVn-uw at powergate.ca>...
> My only comment is about *your* comment, above.  I would
> have called the behaviour described "merge from left".
> Maybe best just to cut out that part of the comment, and
> leave it as "merge where rightmost dictionary has precedence".

Ok.

> Cute recipe though. :-)

Thanks ;-)

I was asking for comments about the performance of this approach 
and/or design choices: for instance, in the case an explicit
dictionary is passed, it could make sense to use it for interpolation,
without merging it with the locals and globals. I could add a default
argument to set this behavior, but I am not sure if this is worthwhile ...

 Michele Simionato


From caleb1 at telkomsa.net  Fri Nov 26 20:46:47 2004
From: caleb1 at telkomsa.net (Caleb Hattingh)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:46:47 -0500
Subject: Delphi underrated, IDE clues for Python
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.23.07.09.08.229463@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<zn18e7pm.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.24.07.36.24.700146@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<mailman.6746.1101289610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<vtadq05nljtb7hatf77t3lfvttkajlt2s6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <opsh3oj9ap1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>

I have been using Delphi 6 at work for several years now (python where I  
can squeeze it in!).

As a programming environment, Delphi is *awesome*.  Sure, it's statically  
typed.  Sure, it's proprietry. Sure, it is Windows-based.

BUT as an IDE, the Delphi environment is amazing.  What I want in a Python  
IDE is the Delphi ide, but with python as the language.  The  
*code-insight*, code/class completion, integrated debugging, integrated  
help, and *incredibly* fast GUI design is a killer combination.  We  
actually use Delphi mostly for numerical stuff (chemical reactor  
modelling), and find its runtime speed is pretty good.  The other amazing  
thing is that Delphi exhibits the fastest compilation I have seen in a  
native optimising compiler.  Working with it is almost like working in an  
interpreter.

So why is my wish to use Python if I think Delphi is so great?

Because Python is dynamic and compact while still easy to read (although  
decorators have curbed my enthusiasm a little).  Python is just a better  
language.  ObjectPascal syntax is very verbose (compared to Python).  The  
Delphi IDE minimizes this issue to great extent with several  
code-completion mechanisms, but I tried to use FPC several days ago  
(without Lazarus), and couldn't type up a simple unit without referring  
the docs - After having used Delphi for 5 years!  I was 80% productive in  
Python after reading the tutorial *once* (but probably not with the most  
optimal code).

STILL...Having a Delphi-like IDE for Python would make me giddy.    I know  
there are several ever-improving options out there already...I guess I am  
waiting to see which one floats to the surface.  I also tend to want to  
use Tk because it is the 'standard' while the more exciting work seems to  
be with the other toolkits, wx, GTK, etc.   I am keen to see what becomes  
of Tk3000 though.

Thanks
Caleb



On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 20:11:47 -0800, Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote:

> Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I think that Delphi is *so* underated when it comes to language &
>> framework design... Delphi suffered from a couple of problems; first,
>> it was Pascal's child, and not C; also, because it was a proprietary
>> project, owned by a single company.
>>
>> For some reason, being a Pascal descendant was regarded as a big "no"
>> by a huge part of the industry, not to mention academia, that was at
>> that time fascinated with the prospect of C++. I wonder what could
>> have happened if Delphi (maybe with another name -- P++ anyone?) was
>> widely adopted instead of C++ for big projects...
>
> You are absolutely correct.  I have never understood the industry  
> prejudice
> against Delphi.  The code is just as efficient as the typical C compiler.
> GUI design in the IDE has always been easier in Delphi than in Visual
> Studio.  VCL is easier to understand than MFC



From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Sun Nov 14 02:40:11 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 14 Nov 2004 07:40:11 GMT
Subject: Advice needed
References: <1100361297.413616.17890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<58494099.0411131402.57e9aec5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrncpe2qh.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On 13 Nov 2004 14:02:08 -0800, Chad Crabtree <flaxeater at gmail.com> wrote:
> "Alberto" <aaflores at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<1100361297.413616.17890 at f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>...
>> I was trying to understand the reasons why I should learn Python. More
>> like a pros/cons about this language. Currently, I use C, C/C++, Java,
>> Perl, Visual VB and was looking to see the usefulness of Python.  Any
>> suggestions?
> 
> Well if you have all those languages then I don't think there's any
> real reason to spend the time learning python.  Except if a cooler
> object system, minimialistic syntax, and a groovy community are
> important to you then perhaps you should learn python.

IMHO there are always reasons to learn new languages, especially if they are
as simple as Python.  Could be hard though if all the OP's work is closely
tied to the languages on the list above (Java seems especially good at
building a whole Java-only world around it). Some openings I see:

- There's no language with dynamic typing on his list (except maybe C++
  templates and advanced Perl, if the OP is into that).
- There's no language that's easily embedded as an internal scripting
  language in the OP's list.
- If the OP doesn't really know Perl all that well, Python is a better
  fit for most perlish things.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From pastor.gabriel at wanadoo.fr  Tue Nov 16 07:33:43 2004
From: pastor.gabriel at wanadoo.fr (Gabriel PASTOR)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:33:43 +0100 (CET)
Subject: xmlrpclib - error marshalling new-style classes
Message-ID: <24053689.1100608423575.JavaMail.www@wwinf0602>

I'm trying to send object using xmlrpclib, but it seems that classes inheriting from object cannot be marshalled. Here is an example:

-------- server.py --------
import xmlrpclib, SimpleXMLRPCServer

class MyObject(object):
    def __init__(self,name):        
        self._name=name
    
def getMyObject(name):
    obj = MyObject(name)
    return obj

if __name__ == "__main__":
    server =  SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer(("localhost", 8888))
    print 'server running on port 8888' 
    server.register_function(getMyObject)
    server.handle_request()

---- client.py ------
import xmlrpclib, SimpleXMLRPCServer
server = xmlrpclib.ServerProxy("http://localhost:8888")
obj = server.getMyObject('john')
print obj

I get the following error
xmlrpclib.Fault: <Fault 1: "exceptions.TypeError:cannot marshal <class '__main__
.MyObject'> objects">

And if the class MyObject doesn't inherit from object then the program runs correctly. I have this problem using python 2.3 and the problem is exacltly the same with python 2.4 beta1

Am I doing something wrong or is it a bug in xmlrpclib ?

Regards,

gp



From jfouhy at paradise.net.nz  Thu Nov 18 20:46:31 2004
From: jfouhy at paradise.net.nz (John Fouhy)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 17:46:31 -0800
Subject: Floating point -> string conversions
References: <c0f3aa87.0411072002.7c42331e@posting.google.com>
	<c0f3aa87.0411101935.43d85afb@posting.google.com>
	<t9Skd.57$nj.56@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <c0f3aa87.0411181746.309b68c7@posting.google.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message news:<t9Skd.57$nj.56 at lakeread01>...
> The fact that %s coerces things makes us expect more of other format 
> tokens, but what would you expect %d to do with 2147483648.5?

I'd expect it to give me "2147483648", since that would be consistent
with its other behaviour :-)

(eg: eval('"%d" % 1.5') == '1')

I guess what annoys me is that python encourages you to not worry
about the difference between ints and longs (which is great) (unless
you're doing high performance computing), but then something like this
can cause code to stop working just because you've passed a border
which is almost invisible.

(of course, this means that one solution which I would be happy with
is for python to reject any non-integer/long arguments to "%d" :-) )

-- 
John.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Nov 16 12:04:24 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:04:24 -0500
Subject: cgi.FieldStorage() is slow
In-Reply-To: <20041116085406.00001ef4@nehal>
References: <mailman.6402.1100584911.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<REmmd.10661$nj.5428@lakeread01> <20041116085406.00001ef4@nehal>
Message-ID: <419A3318.4080004@holdenweb.com>

Nehal wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 07:40:17 -0500
> Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>The cgi module is a confusing mess of code munged, over the
>>years, by many hands. It would take a brave programmer to plunge
>>in and do what's necessary.
>>
>>not-brave-enough-ly y'rs  - steve
> 
> if i were to do it, could i rewrite the functions in the cgi
> module?, or would i need to keep the same functions for backward
> compatibility?
> -- Nehal
> 
> 
Well, code breakage is regarded as pretty bad, so you would need to 
retain the same interfaces that the module supports now.

Of course you could implement them completely differently, as long as 
they worked the same, and you could add new interfaces as well.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Nov  5 03:14:00 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 08:14:00 GMT
Subject: Has anyone released a Python "mock filesystem" for automated
	testing?
References: <OImdnYXxIItbfhfcRVn-iA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <418b257b.1662187619@news.oz.net>

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 21:31:04 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

>The term "mock filesystem" refers to code allowing unit
>or acceptance tests to create, read and write, and manipulate
>in other ways "virtual" files, without any actual disk
>access.  Everything is held in memory and therefore fast,
>without risk of damaging real files, and with none of the
>messiness of leftover files after testing.
>
>Googling the archives and the web suggests that only I and
>Remy Blank have done much along these lines.  I don't see
>any sign that anyone has actually released such a beast
>yet, however.
>
>My own past work in this area was always proprietary, and
>as "you can't take it with you" I've been starting over
>on a new project and have the basics working.  If nobody
>can point me to a more complete implementation, I'll be
>happy to continue to work on mine and release it in the
>near future.
>
>For now, in case anyone is interested, I have support
>for basic open, read/write, __iter__, close, "r" and "w"
>modes, a couple of the most basic exceptions, and a
>tiny handful of lesser things.  All well supported by
>their own unit tests, of course, to ensure quality.
>Stripped class/def lines shown below, as that may be
>an easier way for you to picture what this is about:
>
>class MockFile(object):
>     def __init__(self, fs, path, data='', mode=''):
>     def _getContents(self):
>     def read(self):
>     def write(self, data):
>     def close(self):
>     def __iter__(self):
>
>
>class FileSystem(object):
>     '''Acts like a real file system to support testing.'''
>     def __init__(self, mocktime=False):
>     def _createFile(self, path, data):
>     def _getFile(self, path):
>     def open(self, path, mode='r'):
>
>Thanks for any pointers to more advanced stuff.
>
In a recent post, I suggested a way to virtualize selected files or glob-pattern
sets of files specified by string.

The idea was/is to make open and/or file check whether the path it's being passed
has been registered in a hook registry of substitute classes or factory functions
to be called instead of the normal file builtin functionality, so that the returned
object is an instance of _your_ registered custom class.

"Registering" might be as simple API-wise as sys.filehook['filename.ext'] = MockFile
(to use your example ;-)

*args, **kw would be passed to Mockfile and the resulting instance would be passed
back to the caller of file, so e.g. file('filename.ext', 'rb').read() would
have the effect of Mockfile('filename.ext', rb').read()

Of course there are a bunch of other file things that might have to be supplied if
you wanted to virtualize using low level os.open & friends.

Re a whole file system virtualization, I tried to float that one time long ago, but got
no enthusiasm, even though I only wanted to introduce a virtual branch of the root.

If you do do something with a VFS, IMO it should be mountable and require mounting. Maybe
unix-style mapping of the file tree like msys does for windows would allow mounting
in a platform-independent way, referring to c:\some\path\ as /c/some/path/ and so forth.
Not sure about virtualizing fstab... I guess you could do os.filehook['fstab'] = Something
to feed something special to the mount.

With a mount command you could also specify text file cooking or not, etc.

Just stirring the pot, but I think it would open up some different testing possibilities ;-)
If the hook really hooks well, I would think you could write

    sys.filehook['foo'] = __import__('StringIO').StringIO("print 'hi from dummy foo.py'\n")
    import foo

and expect a greeting (the first time)(untested ;-)

I guess it depends on where i/o funnels back to common layer interfaces.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From elbertlev at hotmail.com  Sat Nov 27 09:59:55 2004
From: elbertlev at hotmail.com (Elbert Lev)
Date: 27 Nov 2004 06:59:55 -0800
Subject: 1 file, multiple threads
References: <41a7000c$0$16489$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <9418be08.0411270659.9b163ad@posting.google.com>

"Guyon Mor?e" <gumuz at NO_looze_SPAM.net> wrote in message news:<41a7000c$0$16489$4d4ebb8e at news.nl.uu.net>...
> If I have multiple threads reading from the same file, would that be a
> problem?
> 
> if yes, how would I solve it?
> 
> Let's say I want to take it a step further and start writing to 1 file form
> multiple threads, how would I solve that?
> 
> 
> thanx,
> 
> Guyon

The sort answer: yes you will. 
The long: how it will hurt you, depends on OS, the sequence of
operations
and the kind of operations.

If you read "next line" (or something like this) or read data from
random positions,
using lock/unlock around seek/read, will solve the problem 
(and maybe defeat the multithreading gain).

Anyway writes may be not seen by readers.

Remember, that for each file OS has one read position and one write
position.
For writing from multiple threads you also needs lock/unlock guard.

You really would be better off if you use Queues in all threads


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Nov 11 15:02:19 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:02:19 -0800
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
In-Reply-To: <60dfb6f6.0411102119.2091c0d@posting.google.com>
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com> <2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<60dfb6f6.0411050715.601f381f@posting.google.com>
	<2v82u3F2dhtcpU1@uni-berlin.de> <cmoqn9$cbf$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<10p1ud2juqlkb7c@corp.supernews.com>
	<60dfb6f6.0411101037.5cd6a17d@posting.google.com>
	<10p52ccen1ql956@corp.supernews.com>
	<60dfb6f6.0411102119.2091c0d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10p7h4rphhpg64c@corp.supernews.com>

Carl Banks wrote:

>Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message news:<10p52ccen1ql956 at corp.supernews.com>...
>  
>
>>On the other hand, I personally think that "rigid/fluid" make a better 
>>metaphor specifically *because* they are not tied so much to physical 
>>properties 
>>    
>>
>
>Just to nitpick: something with a vague meaning really isn't a
>metaphor so much as a literal description in a different sense of the
>word.
>  
>

 From www.m-w.com, "metaphor" is:

*1* *:* a figure of speech in which a word or phrase literally denoting 
one kind of object or idea is used in place of another to suggest a 
likeness or analogy between them (as in /drowning in money/); /broadly/ 
*:* figurative language -- compare SIMILE 
<http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=simile>


Please note that the use of the phrase "rigid guidelines" is indeed 
figurative language.  One is figuratively likening the strict adherence 
to a set of rules to the physical property of inflexibility. 

I also disagree with your assertion that rigid has a vague meaning.  It 
has a *very* specific meaning, and that meaning is "lacking flexibility" 
(again from www.m-w.com -- "*1 a* *:* deficient in or devoid of 
flexibility").  And for the record, "solid" has more alternative 
definitions in said dictionary than "rigid" does.

>If you don't like how the word solid is tied to material properties,
>then it seems to me that your real problem with it is that you just
>don't like metaphors.  Personally, to me, it doesn't matter too much. 
>I am equally comfortable with either metaphorical or literal
>descriptions.
>  
>

On the contrary, I'm quite comfortable with metaphor.  However, I 
completely disagree with your assertion that "rigid rules" is not a 
metaphorical usage of the word "rigid".  It is an entirely standard and 
commonplace usage, yes, but that does not make it non-metaphorical.  
Everyday language can be (and often is) figurative, too.

>If you paid attention
>in your study of grammar, [...]
>

Please don't assume that someone who disagrees with you is either 
uneducated or stupid.  It's rather insulting and wholly inappropriate.

>OTOH, solid has a specific (literal) meaning that is very analogous to
>its proposed use (hence its suitability as a metaphor).  Thus it
>qualifies as a name much better than rigid does.
>  
>

On the other hand, I could posit that "solid typing" could be seen as 
implying that objects are opaque black boxes, and thus that it's related 
more to data-hiding than to lack of type coercions. 

I'm not convinced that the physical property of solidity is a more 
compelling metaphor, and is less prone to alternative interpretations, 
than the physical property of rigidity.  Indeed, after looking at the 
dictionary definitions of both words, I find the case for "solid" to be 
even *more* vague.  The first given definition of "rigid" as "lacking 
flexibility" leads one immediately to the idea that is being discussed 
here.  "Solid", on the other hand, has a first definition of "being 
without an internal cavity" -- how does *that* relate to types?  And 
your attempts to simply repeat your assertions while insulting me don't 
make your argument any more convincing.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From jerry at jerrysievers.com  Sat Nov 27 11:33:55 2004
From: jerry at jerrysievers.com (Jerry Sievers)
Date: 27 Nov 2004 11:33:55 -0500
Subject: Replacing words from strings except 'and' / 'or' / 'and not'
References: <41A5EFA9.5030907@arcor.de>
	<mailman.6793.1101408768.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m37jo7fdzg.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>

Alexandre Cecchi <a.cecchi at gmail.com> writes:

> > Hi there,
> > 
> > Background of this question is:
> > I want to convert all words <word> except 'and' / 'or' / 'and not' from
> > a string into '*<word>*'.
> 
> Hello,
> 
> def do(s):
>     L = []
>     for x in s.split():
>         if x in ('or','and'):
>             L.append(x)    
>         elif x == 'not' and L and L[-1] == 'and':
>             L.append('not')
>         else:
>             L.append("'*%s*'" % x)
>     return ' '.join(L)
> 
> I think that it is more readable, maybe not faster, elegant I don't know =)
> print 'Yeahh it was my first post on the list.'
> 
> bye.

Might as well throw in a recursive approach, eh?

excludedWords = {'foo': 1, 'bar': 1}

def fixEmUp(list, result = []):
    x = list.pop(0)
    result.append('*' * int(x not in excludedWords) + x)
    if not list:
        return result
    return fixEmUp(list, result)

Takes a list of words and returns the same list with the words not in
excludedWords with the * prepended.

(Original poster's professor is going to ask for this
eventually... :-)

A very easy way might be to use REs with negative look-ahead on the
excluded words.

Peace

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Sievers   305 854-3001 (home)     WWW ECommerce Consultant
                305 321-1144 (mobile	http://www.JerrySievers.com/


From exarkun at divmod.com  Sun Nov 28 15:08:35 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 20:08:35 GMT
Subject: The use of :
In-Reply-To: <Avpqd.55491$Ni.1918466@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <20041128200835.17481.1655588139.divmod.quotient.9851@ohm>

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 19:17:52 GMT, gabriele renzi <rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it> wrote:
>Reinhold Birkenfeld ha scritto:
> 
> > Without the ':', single-line suites are impossible. If you allow only
> > multi-line suites, you're right.
> > 
> 
> are they really?
> if <expression> <expressions>
> and the likes would invho parse just fine

  if (a) (b) (c)

  Hmmm.  Sure, you could parse that, but you'd have to make a wild, wild guess about what it means.

  Jp


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Nov 25 12:52:05 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 09:52:05 -0800
Subject: network programming without goto
In-Reply-To: <20041125145353.89046.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041125145353.89046.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041125092843.FA17.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


kent sin <kentsin at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Please help:
> 
> I was really blocked here. without goto I really do
> not known how to do it.
> 
> The problem is to use PyZ3950 to consult a lists of
> hosts and for each of them to search for a list of
> targets. Since the network is undetermined, there were
> always some exceptions: I would like to allow it to
> retry for 3 times. Moreover, during the query process,
> the conn will timeout (set by the remote server).
> Reconnect is preferred before fail the current search,
> but the reconnect may fail even if the first try is
> succeed.

The trick with getting it to do what you want it to do is to understand
what you want it to do.

Being that I can't understand what you want it to do, the following is
just an interpretation of what I think you want it to do.  If you want
it to do something different, then be clearer with what you want it to
do and ask again.  Note that depending on the semantics of your
connection, this could probably be made more efficient.


queries = [buildquery(t) for t in targets]

for host in hostlist:
    tries_remaining = 3 #tunable parameter
    for q in queries:
        for i in xrange(tries_remaining+1):
            if i == tries_remaining:
                break
            try:
                conn = zoom.Connecton(host.ip, host.port)
                r = conn.search(q)
                conn.close()
                break
            except:
                continue
            
            #handle result r
            break
            
        tries_remaining -= i
        
        if tries_remaining == 0:
            break

 - Josiah



From russblau at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  9 16:45:06 2004
From: russblau at hotmail.com (Russell Blau)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 16:45:06 -0500
Subject: Packing list elements into tuples
References: <cmrcqq$rv4$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <2vcs36F2ju6jkU1@uni-berlin.de>

"Nickolay Kolev" <nmkolev at uni-bonn.de> wrote in message
news:cmrcqq$rv4$1 at f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de...
> Hi all,
>
> I have a list whose length is a multiple of 3. I want to get a list  of
> tuples each of which has 3 consecutive elements from the original list,
> thus packing the list into smaller packets. Like this:
>
> l = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9]
>
> tups = [(1,2,3), (4,5,6), (7,8,9)]

How's this? :

>>> alist
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
>>> tups = [tuple(alist[i:i+3]) for i in xrange(0, len(alist), 3)]
>>> tups
[(1, 2, 3), (4, 5, 6), (7, 8, 9)]


>
> if i can dictionaries it would be even better:
>
>
> l = [1,2,3,4,5,6]
>
> tups = [
> {'first':1,'second':2,'third':3},
> {'first':4,'second':5,'third':6}
> ]

Well, now that you've been introduced to the concept of list indexes and
list comprehensions, I think that extending it to dictionaries is fairly
simple.


-- 
I don't actually read my hotmail account, but you can replace hotmail with
excite if you really want to reach me.




From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Tue Nov  9 11:40:44 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 11:40:44 -0500
Subject: possible to pass python objects into java without jython?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6140.1099997924.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6140.1099997924.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <YqKdnSAFWrOWbg3cRVn-hA@giganews.com>

Maurice Ling wrote:

> Are there any way out in this?

No.



From peter at somewhere.com  Wed Nov 17 05:27:48 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:27:48 +0100
Subject: don't NaN & infinities hide FP errors
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0411170130.31d247@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0411170130.31d247@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cnf963$ioc$1@swifty.westend.com>

kartik schrieb:
> Since Python floats are implemented using C doubles, assuming IEEE 754
> compliance, certain operations should result in NaN or infinity. Don't
> such special values hide errors? Would we want our variables to be in
> such states? I feel it would be better if a floating point division by
> zero (or other actions that produce NaNs or infinities) throws an
> exception, just like an integer divide by zero.
> 
> Am I right?

Just try it. 1./0. raises a ZeroDivisionError, math.log(0) raises a
math range error, and math.log(-1) yields nan. If you want math.log(-1)
raise an error, too, you must write your own log() that tests for nan
and raises a NaN error or write a trace function that looks for nan
returned by math.log() (see sys.settrace()).

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Nov 25 10:27:27 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 09:27:27 -0600
Subject: Replacing words from strings except  'and' / 'or' / 'and not'
In-Reply-To: <41A5EFA9.5030907@arcor.de>
References: <41A5EFA9.5030907@arcor.de>
Message-ID: <16805.63967.731507.509398@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Nico> Example:
    Nico> I have the following string: 
    Nico> "test and testing and not perl or testit or example"

    Nico> I want to convert this string to:
    Nico> '*test*' and '*testing*' and not '*perl*' or '*testit*' or '*example*'

    Nico> Any idea, how to do this?

Here's my shot at it:

    def decorate(s):
        words = s.split()
        # make "and not" a 'word'
        for i in range(len(words)-1,-1,-1):
            if words[i] == 'and' and words[i+1] == 'not':
                words[i:i+2] = ["and not"]
        special = ('and', 'and not', 'or')
        for word in words:
            if word in special:
                yield word
            else:
                yield "*%s*" % word

    s = "test and testing and not perl or testit or example"
    print " ".join(decorate(s))

Hoping I didn't just do your homework, I wish you a Happy Thanksgiving...

Skip


From sylvain.thenault at nospam.logilab.fr  Thu Nov  4 08:21:55 2004
From: sylvain.thenault at nospam.logilab.fr (Sylvain Thenault)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 14:21:55 +0100
Subject: ANN: New configuration module released
References: <2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5873.1099513574.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.04.09.03.20.767617@nospam.logilab.fr>
	<mailman.5902.1099566050.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.04.13.21.50.589878@nospam.logilab.fr>

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:00:32 +0000, Vinay Sajip wrote:

> Sylvain Thenault wrote:
>> the "configuration" module in logilab's common library is doing this (make
>> a bridge between optparse and ConfigParser). You give a kind of
>> configuration schema to a configuration object and then it can be
>> initialized from a configuration file and/or command line. Environment
>> variable are not considered yet, but I don't think it would be hard to add
>> this feature. The main problem is the lack of documentation, but if there
>> is some interest I can post an usage example.
> 
> I'm interested to see how your bridging works.

well, the basic idea is a class providing a (simple) unified api to
register options and to read them from different sources, those
methods taking care of optparse / ConfigParser particularities 

A basic example showing main functionalities :

---- begin example
>>> import sys
>>> from logilab.common.configuration import Configuration
>>>
>>> options = [('dothis', {'type':'yn', 'default': True, 'metavar': '<y or n>'}),
...            ('value', {'type': 'string', 'metavar': '<string>'}),
...            ('multiple', {'type': 'csv', 'default': ('yop',),
...                          'metavar': '<comma separated values>',
...                          'help': 'you can also document the option'}),
...            ('number', {'type': 'int', 'default':2, 'metavar':'<int>'}),
...            ]
>>> config = Configuration(options=options, name='My config')
>>> print config['dothis']
True
>>> print config['value']
None
>>> print config['multiple']
('yop',)
>>> print config['number']
2
>>>
>>> config.help()
usage:  [options]

options:
  -h, --help            show this help message and exit

  My config:
    --dothis=<y or n>
    --value=<string>
    --multiple=<comma separated values>
                        you can also document the option
    --number=<int>
>>>
>>> f = open('myconfig.ini', 'w')
>>> f.write('''[MY CONFIG]
... number = 3
... dothis = no
... multiple = 1,2,3
... ''')
>>> f.close()
>>> config.load_file_configuration('myconfig.ini')
>>> print config['dothis']
0
>>> print config['value']
None
>>> print config['multiple']
['1', '2', '3']
>>> print config['number']
3
>>>
>>> sys.argv = ['mon prog', '--value', 'bacon', '--multiple', '4,5,6', 'nonoptionargument']
>>> print config.load_command_line_configuration()
['nonoptionargument']
>>> print config['value']
bacon
>>>
>>> config.generate_config()
[MY CONFIG]
dothis=no

value='bacon'

# you can also document the option
multiple=4,5,6

number=3

---- end example

> Using the config module I released, access to environment variables is
> very easy. Here's how:
> 
> 1. Add the line
> 
> os : `os`
> 
> to your configuration (say, test.cfg).

I think the idea was to ask in the configuration file to specify a value
should be taken from an environment variable, but to get a value from an
environment variable and / or from the configuration file. 

> 2. Access it like this:
> 
>>>> from config import Config
>>>> cfg = Config(file('test.cfg'))
>>>> cfg.os.environ['OS']
> 'Windows_NT'
> 
> The point, of course, is that you can refer to environment variables
> from elsewhere in your configuration, e.g.
> 
> temp_path: `os.environ['TEMP']`
> work_file_prefix: $temp_path + `os.sep`

I've one problem with this approach (other that the person writing the
configuration file has to know python to benefit from your module). Is
there something preventing things like :

work_file_prefix: `os.remove('/etc/password')`

-- 
Sylvain Th?nault                               LOGILAB, Paris (France).

http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org




From grante at visi.com  Tue Nov 30 11:44:16 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 16:44:16 GMT
Subject: pyserial with binary data
References: <23ae7099.0411260218.7ff9119c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41aca360$0$85028$a1866201@visi.com>

On 2004-11-26, alastair <ally_burnett at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> When I send the data on windows everything is ok - on Linux I get the
> following traceback:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ...
> File "/home/pythonCode/loader.py", line 155,
> in serialWrite
> ser.write(buffer)
> File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/serial/serialposix.py", line
> 288, in write
> n = os.write(self.fd, d)
> OSError: [Errno 11] Resource temporarily unavailable

A patch that fixes this is available from the pyserial SF site.

> Can anyone offer any pointers as to why this should happen ?

It happens because the serial device driver returns -11.  The
Regular serial (16x50) driver doesn't do this and will buffer
up to 4K, then block.  For reasons known only to their authors,
some serial drivers don't behave like that.  If you try to
write more than they can immediately send to the HW (a dozen or
two bytes in the case I ran across with a Prolific USB->serial
widget), they take as much as they can send and return
immediately.  If you then try to write more data, you get a
return of -11.

> I first thought that it might be because I was using binary
> data, but the same happens when I tried a large ASCII data
> file. Any ideas for a workaround appreciated :)

Here's the bug:
  http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1043420&group_id=46487&atid=446302
Here's the patch:  
  http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1043436&group_id=46487&atid=446304

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  TATTOOED MIDGETS
                                  at               are using ALFREDO in their
                               visi.com            SALAMI FACTORY!


From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Fri Nov 12 20:32:21 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 17:32:21 -0800
Subject: permuting letters and fairy tales
References: <67lld8kr76.fsf@aster.homelinux.net>
Message-ID: <60dfb6f6.0411121732.2e0ac82c@posting.google.com>

Johannes Nix <Johannes.Nix at gmx.net> wrote in message news:<67lld8kr76.fsf at aster.homelinux.net>...
> yesterday I met a cute person

Obviously this wouldn't have happened if you were using Perl.


> (after my dance class) who told me about an
> interesting experiment regarding cognition. People were told to read a
> typed text; However, in every word in the text, only the first and the
> last letter were in the right place. The other letters had their
> positions changed in an arbitrary manner. The surprising result, I was
> told, was that people can read this mixed-up text fairly well.

I never entirely bought this, although I've never gone to the
empirical extreme you did.

If you look at the oft-cited example (see
http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/cambridge.asp ), you will see
that the intetior letters are not even close to being in random order.
 For the most part, letters near the front of the word remain near the
front, and letters towards the back remain near the back.

My thought is that, the brain doesn't read the word as a whole as they
claim, but neither does it pay too much attention to the _exact_
ordering.  So you could scramble the letters a little, and it will
still be recognizable; but scramble them a lot, and you will have
trouble.

I suspect that a fairy tale wouldn't be too hard even with random
ordering, though, since fairy tales don't use a lot of big words.


> Because I am a somewhat sceptical guy, at times, and because I thought
> that I deserved some play, I decided to code the rule above in a
> scriptlet. The resulting 23 lines are below, and the outcome is quite
> interesting, not only from the point of view of librarians ;-) :
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> #!/usr/bin/python
> import sys
> import locale
> import string
> import re
> import Numeric
> import RandomArray
> 
> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_CTYPE, '')
> wordsep = re.compile('([^%s])' % string.letters)
> 
> for line in sys.stdin.xreadlines():
>     for word in wordsep.split(line):
>         if word and word[0] in string.letters:
>             word = string.lower(word)
>             wlen = len(word)
>             if wlen > 3:
>                 wa = Numeric.array(word)
>                 perm = RandomArray.permutation(wlen-2)
>                 wa[1:wlen-1] = Numeric.take(wa[1:wlen-1],perm)
>                 word = wa.tostring()
>         sys.stdout.write('%s' % word)
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
>  
> 
> For the Uninitiated, Numeric is a package which deals with array data;
> arrays are mutable sequences and Numeric.take() can reorder items in
> them; RandomArray.permutation() delivers the randomized reordering we
> need.
> 
> Now I have two innocent questions:
> 
> - Is it possible to make it a bit more concise ;-))) ?

Yes, but I'd say you're already at the point where more conciseness
causes an unacceptable hit in the readability.  I suspect you also
thought this.


> - Can it coerced to run a little bit faster ?
>   (on my oldish, 300 MHz-AMD K6 , run time looks like this
>   for a famous, 2663-word-long fairy tale from the Grimm's brothers:
> 
>   nix at aster:~> time <HaenselundGretel.txt ./python/perlmutt.py  >v
>   
>   real    0m6.970s
>   user    0m3.634s
>   sys     0m0.120s

Well, the thing about Numeric and numarray is that it's not designed
to scale down well.  If performance is your concern, you are probably
better off using regular Python lists if your operations act on small
arrays, as they do in this case.  It doesn't surprise me that Steven
Bethard found that ordinary Python ran faster.

However, maybe we can use numarray to a greater advantage.  The best
way to use numarray is to operate on as much data as possible, which
in this case is the whole text file.  The question is: can we use
operations on the whole text file to do this job?  Well, we probably
can't scramble the letters of individual words by operating on the
whole text file at once.  But could we find the word boundaries that
way?  The answer is yes.  Have a look at my snippet to see how:

-----------------------
import numarray as na
from numarray import random_array as ra

def interior_scramble(text):

    # First, build a length 256 table indicating if this is a real
    # letter.  It's a boolean-valued array.

    ltable = na.array([ chr(c).isalpha() for c in range(256) ])

    # Turn the above text into a numarray array We add a space
    # before and after the text, to make it possible to see the
    # boundaries on the first and last words

    atext = na.fromstring(" %s " % text, na.UInt8)

    # Now, calculate a mask.  This uses the binary values of the
    # text string to index into the ltable, so that whereever a
    # letter appears in the text, a one appears in the mask.

    amask = ltable[atext]

    # Here's the magic: to find the word boundaries, we xor two
    # slices that are offset by one.  Learning to use slicing in
    # this way is one of the greatest ways to channel the power of
    # numarray.

    # In the mask array, a start boundary will be a zero followed
    # by a one.  An end will be a one followed by a zero.
    # Therefore, if you xor adjacent entries in the mask array,
    # the result will be nonzero whereever there's a boundary.
    # So, let's xor two one-off slices (which has the effect of
    # xoring adjacent entries) of the mask to get the word
    # boundaries.

    pat = amask[:-1] ^ amask[1:]

    # pat will be nonzero wherever there's a word boundary.  Let's
    # use numarray.nonzero to get the indices of the word
    # boundaries.  The word boundaries will be
    # start,end,start,end,... so we can reshape the array so that
    # each row is a start,end pair.

    words = na.reshape(na.nonzero(pat)[0],(-1,2))

    # Because of how the resulting array aligns, we have to add 2
    # to each start value to get the index where the scrambling
    # begins.

    words[:] += [2,0]

    # We got the word boundaries.  Now, loop through them and
    # scramble.  Because the whole file is a numarray, we don't
    # need to convert each word to a numarray and back
    # individually.  That also saves some time.
    
    for start,end in words:
        n = end-start
        if n < 2:
            continue
        perm = ra.permutation(end-start)
        atext[start:end] = atext[start:end][perm]

    # It's scrambled.  Convert the applicable slice back to a
    # string.

    return atext[1:-1].tostring()
-----------------

I'm not sure if this is faster than your method or the pure-Python
method; I didn't check (I worked too hard writing it :).  But,
generally speaking, whenever you can operate on your whole data set
using numarray at once, doing so will be a big time savings.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From f.geiger at vol.at  Fri Nov  5 02:25:32 2004
From: f.geiger at vol.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:25:32 +0100
Subject: Script Generation, help!
References: <mailman.5952.1099638388.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmf9pb$9h6$1@newshispeed.ch>

A sketch of a solution could be (untested):

yourText = "%s=(%d)" % (yourString, yourNumber)
try:
   f = open(yourFileName, "wt")
   f.write(yourText + "\n")
   f.close()
except IOError, e:
   print "There's a problem writing to file %s: %s" % (yourFileName, e)

Creating strings and numbers and putting that and the write into a loop is
yours ;-)

Kind regards
Franz GEIGER

"digital_ant2" <digital_ant2 at yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.5952.1099638388.5135.python-list at python.org...
>
> I'm new to python, so I'll be at detailed as I can be.
>
> I need to generate a script where each line is like this:
>
> Spam=(x)
> Spam=(y)
> Spam=(z)
>
> each entry being on their own line, Spam is a string of text and
> x,y,and z are random numbers, I also need it to be exported to a text
> file with a specified extension.... being completely NEW to python I
> push in the right direction would be really helpfull!
>
> Thanks,
> Pat
>
>
>
>




From mwm at mired.org  Wed Nov  3 02:10:21 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 01:10:21 -0600
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
	<du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<4187b7a1$0$2383$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<hu0l52-ml1.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	<41880b1a$0$19736$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5848.1099437299.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<87vfcnr76l.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>
Message-ID: <x7hdo7v25e.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Isaac To <iketo2 at netscape.net> writes:

>>>>>> "Gerhard" == Gerhard Haering <gh at ghaering.de> writes:
>
>     Gerhard> Well, could have happened with a Debian [*] or *BSD,
>     Gerhard> etc. update as well, right?
>
> Yes, userss of systems with proper package management shouldn't want
> to install anything from CPAN.  On the other hand, there are many
> people who are stuck with a braindead distribution or even OS that
> doesn't have proper package management, or whose packages are severely
> limited.

Actually, what people on systems with proper package management want
is packages that pull stuff from CPAN and install them as
packages. Doing this right is hard, because CPAN makes assumptions
about where things are liable to be installed. For Python, what we
want are packages that use distutils to install them as
packages. Doing this right is trivial, because distutils gets all the
relevant information from the environment.

         <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom  Mon Nov 29 15:12:24 2004
From: unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom (Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non triviale en fuite perpétuelle.)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 21:12:24 +0100
Subject: how to drop all thread ??
References: <coechh$amh$1@netnews.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <41ab8c1d$0$8667$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !

The best method, it is the suicide (of the threads).






From finite.automaton at gmail.com  Fri Nov  5 18:55:29 2004
From: finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 15:55:29 -0800
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<87d5ysbkq9.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <4b39d922.0411051555.24f31663@posting.google.com>

Yes, wxPython is typically quicker than swing.  It's not fair to use
this in a generic Python-vs-Java speed shootout, though, since
wxPython is just a wrapper around wxWidgets' C++ code; you're really
comparing C++ vs. Java here.   It does highlight the fact that it's
easy to write C extensions for Python, though.

AFAIK the major two reasons for Python's relative slowness are that
it's interpreted and dynamically typed.

There's almost always a convenience-for-speed trade-off, and Python is
certainly more convenient than Java :P


Israel Raj T <rambam at bigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:<87d5ysbkq9.fsf at pop-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> Maurice LING <mauriceling at acm.org> writes:
> 
> > This may be a dumb thing to ask, but besides the penalty for dynamic
> > typing, is there any other real reasons that Python is slower than
> > Java?
> 
> Do you have any data to support this ?
> On Windows XP, Windows NT and Linux (Gentoo ), I have consistently
> found python apps using wxpython to be far faster to load
> and to be far more responsive than Java apps.


From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Sat Nov  6 23:11:16 2004
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 04:11:16 GMT
Subject: yet another recipe on string interpolation
References: <4edc17eb.0411032219.659c1824@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Efhjd.1392$gS1.518@trndny04>

"Michele Simionato":
> I was playing with string.Template in Python 2.4 and I came out with the
> following recipe:
>
> import sys
> from string import Template
>
> def merge(*dictionaries):
>     """Merge from right (i.e. the rightmost dictionary has the precedence)."""
>     merg = {}
>     for d in dictionaries:
>         merg.update(d)
>     return merg
>
> def interp(s, dic = None):
>     if dic is None: dic = {}
>     caller = sys._getframe(1)
>     return Template(s) % merge(caller.f_globals, caller.f_locals, dic)

The ASPN chainmap() recipe is an alternative to merge().  It spares the initial
effort of combining all the dictionaries.  Instead, it does the lookups only
when a specific key is needed.  In your example, it is likely that most of
globals will never be looked-up by the template, so the just-in-time approach
will save time and space.  Also, chainmap() is a bit more general and will work
with any object defining __getitem__.

The interp() part of the recipe is nice.


Raymond Hettinger


http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/305268 :
--------- chainmap() ---------


import UserDict

class Chainmap(UserDict.DictMixin):
    """Combine multiple mappings for sequential lookup.

    For example, to emulate Python's normal lookup sequence:

        import __builtin__
        pylookup = Chainmap(locals(), globals(), vars(__builtin__))
    """

    def __init__(self, *maps):
        self._maps = maps

    def __getitem__(self, key):
        for mapping in self._maps:
            try:
                return mapping[key]
            except KeyError:
                pass
        raise KeyError(key)


Raymond Hettinger




From foo at bar.com  Wed Nov 10 08:28:22 2004
From: foo at bar.com (Steve Menard)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:28:22 -0500
Subject: property for class objects
In-Reply-To: <4191edee.85006843@news.oz.net>
References: <mailman.6198.1100056948.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zvgkd.40384$ak3.1503768@wagner.videotron.net>
	<4191edee.85006843@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <eIokd.43311$ak3.1624905@wagner.videotron.net>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 23:08:44 -0500, Steve Menard <foo at bar.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Jp Calderone wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 21:54:50 -0500, Steve Menard <foo at bar.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>As par of JPype, I find that I have to brifge Java static members into 
>>>>class attributes.
>>>>
>>>>I am using a metaclass to dynamically create a Python class for every 
>>>>Java type encountered. Instance variables were handled by adding a 
>>>>property(get, set) to the class's dictionary.
>>>>
>>>>Now static members are giving me a headache. I cannot use "property" for 
>>>>them, because properties are for instances only.
>>>>
>>>>What I am currently doing is adding a __getattr__ and a __setattr__ 
>>>>methods to the metaclass, which is called when a class attribute is 
>>>>requested but not found in the class' dict.
>>>>
>>>>This works fine exact it does not walk the inheritance tree to find 
>>>>static members defined in base classes. I am currently adding up all the 
>>>>names in every class. This "works", however it is misleading when you do 
>>>>a dir() of the class.
>>>>
>
[ SNIP previous idea]

> 
> Sometimes a custom descriptor can get you there. You can pass stuff to its
> constructor to hang on its self, which is accessible separately from the self
> of an instance or the latter's class. So there is room for customizing various
> descriptor instances using one class (not a metaclass). If you only need read
> access, this is easy. If you want a r/w property you may have to go to a metaclass
> solution unless you are willing to use  cvar.x = val or cvar[something] = var or
> cvar.method(var) etc. -- i.e. return the descriptor self and have __setitem__ etc
> as methods of the descriptor. You can hang something temporarily on self for use
> in the subsequent method call, though I have the feeling there's some pitfall in
> some uses of that. Anyway, here's a minimal descriptor (property is build on
> the descriptor mechanisms, and you probably know all this, so I don't know why
> I'm posting this ;-) IIRC, if you don't have a __set__ method, an attribute
> assignment to an instance can shadow the descriptor, but not if you have __set__.
> Of course, an attribute assignment to the class is no different than the original
> class var assignment unless you have a descriptor/property in the metaclass to intercept it.
> 
>  >>> class Desc(object):
>  ...     def __get__(self, inst, cls=None):
>  ...         if inst is None: print 'accessed via class attribute'
>  ...         else: accessed
>  ...
>  >>> class Desc(object):
>  ...     def __get__(self, inst, cls=None):
>  ...         if inst is None: print '%r accessed via class attribute' %cls
>  ...         else:  print '%r accessed via instance attribute' %inst
>  ...
>  >>> class Foo(object):
>  ...    cvar = Desc()
>  ...
>  >>> foo = Foo()
>  >>> foo.cvar
>  <__main__.Foo object at 0x009B61B0> accessed via instance attribute
>  >>> Foo.cvar
>  <class '__main__.Foo'> accessed via class attribute
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

I wasnt aware of those descriptors (I am just now delving in the "meta" 
side of things), and it looks promising. So thanks for taking the time 
to tlel me about it :)

Static variables are not just constants however, and the __set__ has to 
work as normal. I did a quick test and it seems by mistake you can even 
erase the descriptor with a new value .. not good.

At least I can use this for the constant static values (which probably 
comprises the bulk) and use the __setattr__ to prevent overwriting them.

Steve

Still looking for a more complete solution howeber


From len-1 at telus.net  Mon Nov 22 18:53:37 2004
From: len-1 at telus.net (Lenard Lindstrom)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:53:37 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

> My guess is Microsoft hopes to discourage Visual Basic knock-offs.  Claim 2
> clearly seems to restrict the scope to BASIC.
> 
No, Claim-2 refers to a "BASIC-derived programming language". Description 42
claims "BORLAND DELPHI" is such a "BASIC-like or BASIC-derived language". Now I
have not used Delphi but understand it is a kind of Pascal. It looks like
Microsoft is casting a wide net indeed. Is it wide enough to ensnare Python?

We all know Python is not Basic, though it fills a similar niche. But let me
indulge my paranoia for a moment. Could the Python Software Foundation weather
a lawsuit from a large company, even if the lawsuit was unfounded? A small
change like removing 'is not' from the language would still be a significant
inconvenience. And hey, maybe IronPython would remain unaffected, making
it more backward compatible than CPython. But enough with being the
conspiracy guy.

Actually I believe Microsoft is just trying to keep Visual Basic distinct
from potential competitors.

Lenard Lindstrom
<len-l at telus.net>


From exarkun at divmod.com  Wed Nov 24 14:25:44 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:25:44 GMT
Subject: Python's annoyance.
In-Reply-To: <_V4pd.386875$wV.330416@attbi_s54>
Message-ID: <20041124192544.17481.818437030.divmod.quotient.3890@ohm>

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:03:26 GMT, Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
>caroundw5h wrote:
> > Serioulsy, one of python's main selling points is its elegant syntax,
> > non perl like, non C like. If it can't live up to it. I guess i might
> > as well use perl or ruby or server side javascript.
> 
> While I'm not a fan of the decorator syntax or the $syntax in 
> string.Template, you're not forced to use either of these:

  You may not be forced to write them (on the other hand, you may well be forced to - by your employer, by the coding standard of a project you contribute to, etc).

  More importantly though, their availability in the language means that someone will use them, and then it is likely that you will be forced to *read* them.  This is a greater slight: consider the relative frequencies of code being written and code being read.

  This is not to say either that I am opposed to or in favor of either of the specific features mentioned by the original poster, only to point out that the argument "If you don't like that feature, don't use it" is relatively meritless.

  Jp


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Nov 17 17:05:39 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 17:05:39 -0500
Subject: thread, threading; how to kill a thread?
References: <m37jokwiqj.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
	<mailman.6508.1100724708.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u8y90f7ws.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> writes:

> (...)
> Even if it messes things up and I have to restart the process at the
> soonest possible time to clean up the problems, it would be nice to be
> able to exit the process.  (...)

I'm not positive, but os._exit() may at least let you get the process
exited regardless of any thread states.

-- David


From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Nov 19 18:55:28 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:55:28 -0800
Subject: instances v. threads
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E324525E@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Brad Tilley wrote:
> I've just started using classes in Python for some projects 
> at work and 
> have a few questions about them. I understand that once a class is 
> defined that I can create many instances of it like this:
> 
> class xyz:
>     def one():
>        pass
>     def two ():
>        pass
>     def three():
>        pass
> 
> a = xyz()
> b = xyz()
> c = xyz()
> 
> a.one()
> b.one()
> c.one()
> c.two()
> c.three()
> 
> How does asynchronous/threaded programming differ from OO programming 
> and classes? C is not OO and has no classes, but one can 
> write threaded 
> programs in C, right? Perhaps I'm totally off on this... can some 
> explain how these concepts differ? Exactly how is an 'instance' 
> different from a 'thread'?

A thread is a "thread of execution". An object instance is a chunk of
data on the heap. Any instance is available to any thread, if the thread
can obtain a reference to that instance.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From igouy at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 27 17:15:17 2004
From: igouy at yahoo.com (Isaac Gouy)
Date: 27 Nov 2004 14:15:17 -0800
Subject: scripting languages vs statically compiled ones
References: <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<7z7jpaez0y.fsf@pc-032.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <ce7ef1c8.0411271415.110c9992@posting.google.com>

torbenm at diku.dk (Torben ?gidius Mogensen) wrote in message 
> You could use the "The Great Computer Language Shootout" at
> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/craps.php .  It may give the
> impression that you can't trust the numbers it gives, but I believe
> this is mainly because it is more honest than the majority of other
> language comparisons.  

Thank you! That's very kind - some folk seem to assume it's because
the authors are plain stupid ;-)

However, the websites been rearranged over the last month, so it would
be better to start from one of the main pages:

   http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/
   http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/great/
   http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/sandbox/

> The main problem with this test is that the benchmark programs are fairly
> small, so the results may not be representative of large programs.

We'd quite like to include larger programs - but would people
volunteer their time to write larger programs in all those languages?


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sun Nov 14 09:32:03 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 15:32:03 +0100
Subject: simple recursion help
References: <Gpyed.320058$bp1.6526@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<VUyed.320061$bp1.273357@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<mailman.5375.1098565018.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm4uqv.nmgjbj1vt0spjN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0410231916.450f67d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aklzdq7rsxry$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Hung Jung Lu (2004-10-24 04:16 +0100)
> Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Does anyone know what this operation is called?  It's not permutations or
>> combinations as I understand them since permutations and combinations do
>> not allow repetition.  I assume there was already a solution for this
>> somewhere, but I didn't know what term to google for.
> ---------------------------------------------------
> aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:
>> There's been a recent thread where the OP called them 'permutations',
>> somebody commented they're 'variations'.  In that thread you'll find a
>> bazillion solutions, recursive and non, with or without itertools, &c.
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> (1) "Variation" is the same as "permutation". It's matter of
> semantics. Some people use the notation V(n, k), some people use the
> notation P(n, k). For people that use the term "variation", the term
> "permutation" is reserved for the special case V(n, n). Neither name
> is right for the original question.

Well in fact it's a variation with repetition of the length 3 (or the
cartesian product "['a', 'b', 'c'] ** 3").

With the cvp[1] utility you could generate that like:
>>> l = ['a', 'b', 'c']
>>> util.cvp(l, 3, '#vr') # make sure it doesn't grow too big
27
>>> util.cvp(l, 3, 'vr')
[['a', 'a', 'a'],
 ['a', 'a', 'b'],
 ['a', 'a', 'c'],
 ['a', 'b', 'a'],
 ['a', 'b', 'b'],
 ['a', 'b', 'c'],
 ['a', 'c', 'a'],
 ['a', 'c', 'b'],
 ['a', 'c', 'c'],
 ['b', 'a', 'a'],
 ['b', 'a', 'b'],
 ['b', 'a', 'c'],
 ['b', 'b', 'a'],
 ['b', 'b', 'b'],
 ['b', 'b', 'c'],
 ['b', 'c', 'a'],
 ['b', 'c', 'b'],
 ['b', 'c', 'c'],
 ['c', 'a', 'a'],
 ['c', 'a', 'b'],
 ['c', 'a', 'c'],
 ['c', 'b', 'a'],
 ['c', 'b', 'b'],
 ['c', 'b', 'c'],
 ['c', 'c', 'a'],
 ['c', 'c', 'b'],
 ['c', 'c', 'c']]

Or like that:
>>> util.cartes(util.cartes(l, l), l, 'triple')

Thorsten

[1] cvp = "combinations, variations and permutations"
    http://www.thorstenkampe.de/python/util.py


From arso_AT_libero_DOT_it at non.ce  Tue Nov  9 17:25:34 2004
From: arso_AT_libero_DOT_it at non.ce (Arso - Italy)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 22:25:34 GMT
Subject: Eric3 and mod_python debugging (reply from Detlev)
In-Reply-To: <cmoe0n$3l0$1@online.de>
References: <isyjd.22586$Es2.490451@twister2.libero.it>
	<cmoe0n$3l0$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <41915297.5020605@non.ce>

Detlev Offenbach wrote:

 > Am Dienstag, 9. November 2004 00:13 schrieben Sie:
 >
 >
 >> Arso - Gentoo wrote:
 >>
 >>
 >>> Detlev Offenbach wrote:
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>> Am Montag, 8. November 2004 20:32 schrieben Sie:
 >>>>
 >>>>
 >>>>> Hi
 >>>>>
 >>>>> excuse me, i will try to use eric3 to debug interactly python scripts
 >>>>> running on apache with mod_python.
 >>>>> In the Eric documentation I have find only how to patch 
python.py, but
 >>>>> not how to activate the debug function.
 >>>>> Where I can find this information ?
 >>>>>
 >>>>> A lot of thanks.
 >>>>>
 >>>>
 >>>> In the mod_python manual.
 >>>>
 >>>> Detlev
 >>>>
 >>>
 >>> Thanks
 >>> when I have activate in apache configuration for a specific virtual 
host
 >>> PythonDebug on
 >>> PythonEnablePdb on
 >>>
 >>> I get the below error.
 >>> Are there other activity or setting to do for using eric debugger ?
 >>> Other lot of thanks.
 >>>
 >>> Mod_python error: "PythonAccessHandler draco.dracohandler"
 >>>
 >>> Traceback (most recent call last):
 >>>
 >>> File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/mod_python/apache.py", line
 >>> 298, in HandlerDispatch
 >>>   result = pdb.runcall(object, req)
 >>>
 >>> File
 >>> "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/eric3/Debugger/eric3dbgstub.py",
 >>> line 60, in runcall
 >>>   return debugger.run_call(__scriptname, func, *args)
 >>>
 >>> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'run_call'
 >>>
 >>
 >> Hi
 >> I have try also with your example, modpython_dbg custumizing the path
 >> with the absolute value in the
 >> initDebugger method.
 >> The hello message apper but the debugger is not fired even there are
 >> some breakpoints active for the modpython_dbg itself.
 >> What is wrong ?
 >>
 >> For execution with draco i have inserted the call to
 >> apache.initDebugger(mpreq.filename) in the  handler method of
 >> dracohandler but I get the above error.
 >> What is wrong ?
 >>
 >> If there are some document that describe the step for use the debug
 >> write to me where are there.
 >>
 >> Thanks.
 >>
 >
 >
 > There is a little document in erics Documentation directory 
(mod_python.html). This gives instruction on how I got it working.
 >
 > Detlev
 >
 >
Excuse me. My mistake, I have activate *PythonEnablePdb on* only for the 
virtual domain managed with draco and not for that used for 
modpython_dbg. Now modpython_dbg.py is running with debug.
The features of eric are VERY interesting. Either for the debugging 
features either for the editor, syntax highlight autocompletion  ecc.

For information:
The python options *PythonDebug on* and *PythonEnablePdb on* are set 
directly into apache.conf in the directive "Directory" for  the 
virtual-domain managed by mod_python.
Sometimes after the end of  the execution and after the popup form 
informing of the exit status of the script, eric terminate.
It is normal ? In the debug option "Automatic reset after client exit" 
isn't activated.

This message will be post in comp.lang.python too.

Regards and a lot of thanks.

-- 

======================================================
Arso - Italy  Gentoo 2004-02  Stage 1

Armada e500
======================================================


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sun Nov  7 20:04:39 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 17:04:39 -0800
Subject: checking a thread has started
References: <mailman.6001.1099749512.5135.python-list@python.org><qliv52-mlq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com><eaac783a04110618073e1e4498@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.6031.1099794084.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8qt262-pfm.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

[Please do not email and reply via news as well.]

> So with this arrangement, would I be running into import lock
> problems?

Unlikely.  Google for 'python "import lock"' if you would like
to learn more.

Roger 




From paul at subsignal.org  Tue Nov 16 19:17:47 2004
From: paul at subsignal.org (paul koelle)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 01:17:47 +0100
Subject: nonblocking read()
In-Reply-To: <cnbgd0$ls4$1@news.apple.com>
References: <cnbgd0$ls4$1@news.apple.com>
Message-ID: <2vvjkoF2re95sU1@uni-berlin.de>

Peter Ammon wrote:

> Are there better approaches?  Thanks,

What is wrong with:

fp = open('foo', 'r')

while 1:
   line = fp.readline()
   if not line:
     time.sleep(0.3)
     continue
   process(line)

??
  Paul



From carribeiro at gmail.com  Mon Nov 15 08:27:47 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:27:47 -0200
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <L0Tld.2114$nj.1155@lakeread01>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<boKdncuh1ZBxbgrcRVn-gA@giganews.com> <L0Tld.2114$nj.1155@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <864d3709041115052737faa705@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:41:13 -0500, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> You managed to get it to run? I found the whole load opaque beyond
> belief, and removed it after an hour's examination.

>From time to time, I download Zope, try it a little bit, and uninstall
it. Perhaps I am too dumb for it (which may be the case) :-( ... but I
somehow feel that there is a problem, for I am not alone in this
feeling. For me, Zope lacks Python's inherent clarity; it seems that
it requires a 'mental mode' of its own. Many things are not obvious,
in the way they normally are when I am working with Python. This
places a lot of burden on the documentation, which - as said elsewhere
- is confusing. It's a shame.

(The best image that I can cast is of a rough gem. A good gem cutter
can see the finished gem through layers of dirty, and locate the
correct planes to cut. For others, even knowing that the gem is inside
there is not enough, for they can't see it until finished. For me Zope
looks like an still unfinished gem, and even if I know that there is a
beautiful gem inside, I can't just see it there.)

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From miles_f at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  9 18:20:29 2004
From: miles_f at yahoo.com (Miles Fender)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 15:20:29 -0800
Subject: Stripping HTML with RE
In-Reply-To: <76d8b714.0411091506.581637c0@posting.google.com>
References: <76d8b714.0411091506.581637c0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <rvckd.50$Xa4.30@news.oracle.com>

Steveo wrote:
> I am currently stripping HTML from a string with the following code. 
> (I know it's not the best way to strip HTML but bear with me)
 > [...]

Instead of using REs, you might consider the StrippingParser
from the Python Cookbook:

   http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52281

It allows you to specify explicitly which tags you want to leave
intact, so you'll be able to change your mind later without futzing
about with a complex RE...


Miles


From ncoghlan at email.com  Sat Nov 20 12:12:54 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 03:12:54 +1000
Subject: Is Python/C api thread safety enough?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6644.1100943828.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6644.1100943828.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <419f7b16$0$25777$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Casper wrote:
> Can sombody tell me is this possible? Thanks first.

If you're going to call the Python C/API, you need to be holding the GIL. So you
either can't release it, or the long-running function has to use
PyGILState_Ensure when it needs to call the Python C/API.

Cheers,
Nick.


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Nov 28 12:31:49 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 12:31:49 -0500
Subject: Timer hangs when quitting app
In-Reply-To: <cod13s$2iel$1@news.cybercity.dk>
References: <cod13s$2iel$1@news.cybercity.dk>
Message-ID: <cod218$16c$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Gitte Wange wrote:
> I'm trying to create an application that needs a Timer() to do various
> checks.
> My class has a self.timer = Timer(900, self.sendDNSRequest)
> The timer itself works fine but whenever I try to exit the application, it
> simply hangs and I have to kill the proces using `kill pid`
> 
> I have tried uncommenting the timer stuff, and then the app works as
> expected.
> 
> Is there anything I need to do to kill the timer?
> I have tried to create a __del__(self) function in my app. It gets called
> when I leave out the timer, but with the timer enabled, it never gets
> called.

A Timer is a subclass of threading.Thread, which means
you can do "self.timer.setDaemon(True)" on it *before*
you start it, and it will not hang the app when it
is trying to exit.

See notes in the threading module's Thread.setDaemon
docs for background.

-Peter


From mickey at travelexpert2004.biz  Sun Nov 28 09:43:55 2004
From: mickey at travelexpert2004.biz (mickey)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 04 14:43:55 GMT
Subject: Trip to Disney
Message-ID: <04112814435516792@newshost.allthenewsgroups.com>

GET YOUR TRIP
TRIPS TO DESNEY
TRIPS TO HAWAII


http://travelexpert2004.us

http://travelexpert2004.biz

http://gotraveling85.us




From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Fri Nov 12 09:38:44 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:38:44 +0100
Subject: Plone and mod_python
In-Reply-To: <gr3aeg0wjjx.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
References: <7l1ld.13845$3_.7287@ns2.gip.net>
	<gr3aeg0wjjx.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
Message-ID: <4194cab6$0$27786$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Thorsten Kampe wrote:

> mod_perl enables Apache without Zope to execute Python scripts (CGI).
> 
s/mod_perl/mod_python/ !-)



From theller at python.net  Mon Nov  8 11:35:02 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 17:35:02 +0100
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<tyfekj44shs.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxizh.3rip5na92f0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyfacts4of3.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxn7d.19o8q51jt2gu5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <wtww9u4p.fsf@python.net>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
>    ...
>> > > > Is there any generic way to use C++ libraries from within Python.
>> > > 
>> > > > Without doing anything else (such as recompiling the library or
>> > > > generating wrappers).
>> > > 
>> > > Bit of a tall order, don't you think?
>> > 
>> > Well, ctypes does that for C libraries (as long as they're
>> > DLL/so/dynlib/...), it's not immediately obvious that using C++
>> > libraries is an order of magnitude harder (though probably true).
>> 
>> Maybe not _immediately_ obvious, but obvious after a few minutes
>> thought :-)
>
> To somebody with a good grasp of the current state of C++ technology,
> maybe.  Somebody who might just like to using existing dynlib/&c which
> happen to be oriented to C++ rather than C might quite reasonably not
> find the distinction obvious, IMHO.
>
> Indeed, I suspect ctypes could be extended to do some of the requested
> task, if one focused on a single, specific C++ compiler.

I guess that MSVC uses the same binary layout for C++ objects as for COM
objects, so it should be possible.  I don't know if the name mangling rules
are documented somewhere.

But I have no idea how inline definitions of member functions (I'm not
sure that's the correct term - I mean code defined in the header files)
should be converted to Python code.

Thomas


From littlejohn.75 at noos.fr  Mon Nov 22 11:35:48 2004
From: littlejohn.75 at noos.fr (F. Petitjean)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 16:35:48 GMT
Subject: for(each) element aliasing
References: <2844q0l5ccahj6poumolghrcm2u2boo9ka@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <41a21564$0$10222$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:21:26 +0100, Matija Papec <mpapec at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> I know how to alter the list via list indicies but I would like to know if
> there is posibility to write in Python something like:
> 
> my @arr = 1..3;
> for my $element (@arr) {
>   $element *= 2;
> }
> print "@arr\n";

For instance :
arr = 1, 2, 3  # range(1, 4)
arr = [ element*2 for element in arr ]
print arr   # [2, 4, 6]  it is a list
for element in arr:
    print element,  # note the comma
print  # useful if not in interactive mode only


Read the documentation about "list comprehension"
> 
> and get the result
> -------
> 2 4 6
> 
> 


From rune.hansen at scanmine.com  Mon Nov  8 02:52:13 2004
From: rune.hansen at scanmine.com (roderik)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 08:52:13 +0100
Subject: mod_python, multiple calls to PythonAuthenHandler
In-Reply-To: <f7199550.0411072019.182a98df@posting.google.com>
References: <f7199550.0411072019.182a98df@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <OAFjd.6032$Km6.157226@news4.e.nsc.no>

I've posted this question on the mod_python mailing list but didn't get 
much response, so I thought I'd post it here.

It seems to me that for each path element in a URI a mod_python handler 
will be invoked. This applies to PythonAuthenHandler, 
PythonHeaderParserHandler and so on.

Since I'm making a database request in my PythonAuthenHandler, this 
quickly becomes a problem.

Example:
http://lucene.moonspawn.scanmine.com/ =>
	AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: 1
	index got called once

http://lucene.moonspawn.scanmine.com/SearchHandler.py/search =>
	AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: 1
	AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: 2
	/search got called once

http://lucene.moonspawn.scanmine.com/search.html => (using mod_rewrite)
	AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: 1
	AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: 2
	AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: 3
	/search got called once

I get the same behavior on three separate installations

So, either I've got a miss-configuration which results in multiple calls 
to handlers or.., this is expected behavior, and there is a technique to 
avoid this or..., this is expected and, for reasons that escapes me, 
desired behavior.

I'd greatly appreciate any help and suggestion

regards

/rune


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov  8 07:42:02 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 07:42:02 -0500
Subject: sh: test: argument expected
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5967.1099667496.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5967.1099667496.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8WJjd.13318$931.3055@lakeread01>

Iv?n Cabria wrote:

> Hi,   
>    
> I have run the script using "python scriptname.py" and the error does    
> not go away. I got the same error: 
>  
> sh: test: argument expected 
>    
>  
> I have checked again that the first line of the python script is   
> #!/usr/bin/env python   
>    
> There are no blank lines or empty spaces before    
> #!/usr/bin/env python   
>    
>   
> I also did "grep loginname /etc/passwd" to confirm I was using bash, and the  
> line I got ended with   
>    
> :/usr/bin/bash   
>   

That's as may be, but I can't escape the conclusion that your script is 
involving the shell somehow - maybe the GetPotentialEnergy() method 
calls os.system() or some other piece of functionality.

About all I can say is that the error message you are seeing is 
definitely NOT from the Python interpreter. Try putting a print 
statement of some kinf as the second loine of your script and make sure 
that Python is actually running that script. If it is, you'll need to 
find out where it's calling shell functionality.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From merman at snafu.de  Mon Nov  8 11:13:52 2004
From: merman at snafu.de (T. Kaufmann)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 17:13:52 +0100
Subject: MySQLdb installation
Message-ID: <418f99db$0$175$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Hi,

RDBMS MySQL works fine on my machine. I want to install MySQL-python 
1.0.0 under Red Hat 9.0.

 >>> platform.platform()
'Linux-2.4.20-8-i686-with-redhat-9-Shrike'

There are some problems. If I call python

setup.py build

there are lots of errors:

_mysql.c:41:19: mysql.h: File not found

What can I do? How can I fix it?

o-o

Thomas


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Sat Nov 13 23:19:33 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 20:19:33 -0800
Subject: map, LC, genexp
In-Reply-To: <F2Ald.94494$R05.50978@attbi_s53>
References: <F2Ald.94494$R05.50978@attbi_s53>
Message-ID: <cn6mcp$rhn$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Bryan wrote:
> i thought that LC and genexp were supposed to be faster than map.  i 
> also thought i read somewhere in this group that the slowest looping 
> mechanism in 2.4 is 20% faster than the fastest looping mechanism in 
> 2.3.  if i'm wrong about this, remembered wrong or did something wrong, 
> please let me know.  here are some timeit tests i did on my machine.  
> notice that map is faster in both python versions and that LC24/LC23 is 
> only a 5.5% speed improvement.
> 
> python 2.3
> 
> timeit "for i in map(str, xrange(100)): pass"
> 10000 loops, best of 3: 118 usec per loop

map still beats list comprehensions and generator expressions when the 
function is builtin. Try again with a Python function that gets 
"inlined" in the LC and genexp:

E.g.

def neg(x):
     return -x

map(neg, xrange(100))
[-x for x in xrange(100)]
(-x for x in xrange(100))

I believe (though I haven't tested this specific example) that is the 
case for which they are faster than map.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From anhtt at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 18 09:48:33 2004
From: anhtt at hotmail.com (Tran Tuan Anh)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 06:48:33 -0800
Subject: SPARK v.s. PLY
Message-ID: <ed89f8f2.0411180648.49ac6763@posting.google.com>

Hi all, 

I am searching for a suitable parsing tool to parse C++ for a research
project.
Actually I am parsing SystemC, it is a C++ lib with some macros, hence
I need to modify the grammar a little bit to handle some new keywords.

I need to construct the Control Flow Graph and play around with it a
bit.
So far, I have found SPARK and PLY that seem to be suitable to my
task. Other packages are either not so well established or not so well
tested and documented. (Please correct me if I am wrong).

If you know the parsing stuff well, could you briefly tell me the
pros. and cons. of those packages? (or some others you find good too)

Thanks a lot!
Tuan-Anh


From xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net  Wed Nov 17 07:55:43 2004
From: xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 12:55:43 GMT
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<boKdncuh1ZBxbgrcRVn-gA@giganews.com>
	<L0Tld.2114$nj.1155@lakeread01>
	<41985663$0$272$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<ZR1md.4916$nj.2331@lakeread01>
	<4198cc5f$0$258$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.6383.1100535480.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4198e036$0$289$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.6388.1100548469.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns95A38B0C3A56FPaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.78>
	<mailman.6427.1100622002.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns95A48DEEDAA9APaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.68>

Tim Peters <tim.peters at gmail.com> said :

>> If only the lower part of that page had figured in a prominent
>> WINDOWS_INSTALL_README.TXT or some such in the Windows
>> installer, there'd been much less bitchin' here :-)
> 
> Ah, but where would you put this file?  In a *tarball* distribution,
> it's easy:  you stick README_FILES_WITH_SCREAMING_NAMES in the root of
> the distribution, and then they're easy to find.
> 
> But this is a Windows *installer*, and every file it installs is
> "hiding" under some subdirectory of your pre-existing Windows Python
> installation.  Where could the X3 Windows installer put
> WINDOWS_INSTALL_README.TXT where a new user is likely to find it?
 
Yes, good point. I was sort of speaking for myself because I had actually 
browsed through the newly created directories under site-packages looking 
for some such, and would have found it there. So it would work for people 
used to installing Python packages (like most of those who've posted in 
this thread), but it's clearly not a bulletproof "end-user" solution.

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov 23 20:09:58 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 01:09:58 GMT
Subject: int(float(sys.maxint)) buglet ?
Message-ID: <41a3d612.849461871@news.oz.net>

Peculiar boundary cases:

 >>> 2.0**31-1.0
 2147483647.0
 >>> int(2147483647.0)
 2147483647L
 >>> int(2147483647L )
 2147483647
 >>>
 >>> -2.0**31
 -2147483648.0
 >>> int(-2147483648.0)
 -2147483648L
 >>> int(-2147483648L )
 -2147483648

some kind of one-off error? I.e., just inside extremes works:

 >>> [int(x) for x in (-2.0**31, -2.0**31+1.0, 2.0**31-2.0, 2.0**31-1.0)]
 [-2147483648L, -2147483647, 2147483646, 2147483647L]

But those longs at the extremes can be converted successfully, so int(int(x)) works ;-/

 >>> [int(int(x)) for x in (-2.0**31, -2.0**31+1.0, 2.0**31-2.0, 2.0**31-1.0)]
 [-2147483648, -2147483647, 2147483646, 2147483647]

ISTM this is a buglet, or at least a wartlet for a 32-bit system ;-)

Almost forgot:
Python 2.4b1 (#56, Nov  3 2004, 01:47:27)
[GCC 3.2.3 (mingw special 20030504-1)] on win32

but same thing on 2.3.2:

 Python 2.3.2 (#49, Oct  2 2003, 20:02:00) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> [int(x) for x in (-2.0**31, -2.0**31+1.0, 2.0**31-2.0, 2.0**31-1.0)]
 [-2147483648L, -2147483647, 2147483646, 2147483647L]
 >>> [int(int(x)) for x in (-2.0**31, -2.0**31+1.0, 2.0**31-2.0, 2.0**31-1.0)]
 [-2147483648, -2147483647, 2147483646, 2147483647]

Hm, ... except for the thought that CPUs with 64-bit integers might truncate maxint
when converting to float, I might say maybe these reprs should be tested
for equality in the system tests?

 >>> import sys
 >>> repr(int(float(sys.maxint))),  repr(sys.maxint)
 ('2147483647L', '2147483647')
 >>> repr(int(float(-sys.maxint-1))),  repr(-sys.maxint-1)
 ('-2147483648L', '-2147483648')

or maybe at least check for equality of these?:

 >>> type(int(float(sys.maxint))),  type(sys.maxint)
 (<type 'long'>, <type 'int'>)
 >>> type(int(float(-sys.maxint-1))),  type(-sys.maxint-1)
 (<type 'long'>, <type 'int'>)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Nov 17 15:33:36 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:33:36 +0100
Subject: imaplib ... understanding the result from a fetch of RFC822s
In-Reply-To: <419bb3a7$0$259$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <419bb3a7$0$259$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <419bb54a$0$304$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Max M wrote:

> I guess that I can iterate it like:
> 
> for ((envelopeStart, msg), envelopeEnd) in range(0, len(messages), 2):
>     # do stuff

I guess not. I really meant:

for i in range(0, len(results), 2):
     ((envelopeStart, msg), envelopeEnd) = (results[0], results[1])

-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Nov  5 03:30:21 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 00:30:21 -0800
Subject: dijkstra algorithm by object oriented
In-Reply-To: <1gmrpqw.1omlhxkz9r7yN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.5947.1099624780.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmrpqw.1omlhxkz9r7yN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041105002753.F82D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:
> 
> Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
> 
> > "Ricardo Batista" <batista.ric at iol.pt> wrote:
> > > 
> > > But i need it for a homework.
> > 
> > We try not to do homework here.
> 
> Well, Ricardo's trying not to do homework there either, so there seems
> to be the basis for mutual understanding...


Tee hee.

Yeah, if I was told (for an assignment) object-orient this thing, I'd
probably go all out.  Nodes, edges, graph.


 - Josiah



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Nov 10 06:28:17 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:28:17 +0100
Subject: html parsing?  Or just simple regex'ing?
References: <pan.2004.11.10.01.37.41.879705@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<cmstsc$bh$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cmsu0h$bh$05$2@news.t-online.com>

Forget about the last part - I just read Jp Calderone's reply after writing
mine - interesting. I've never heard of "chunked" encoding before.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From jonasgalvez at gmail.com  Tue Nov 16 01:13:52 2004
From: jonasgalvez at gmail.com (Jonas Galvez)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 04:13:52 -0200
Subject: cgi.FieldStorage() is slow
In-Reply-To: <20041115215736.00007a5c@nehal>
References: <20041115215736.00007a5c@nehal>
Message-ID: <7c60b605041115221364adb6fa@mail.gmail.com>

Nehal wrote:
> after profiling, it seems like:
>         self.read_lines_to_outerboundary()
> which is called from
>         cgi.FieldStorage()
> is the reason why it's so slow.
> 
> when uploading small files, you won't notice a difference, but if
> you upload files larger than 2 megs, you can notice it.

Well, you could use sys.stdin.read() and retrieve POST data in a 
customized manner (bytes per cycle). But I doubt it would help.



\\ jonas galvez
// jonasgalvez.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 14 12:57:26 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 18:57:26 +0100
Subject: .pyc files...
References: <E1CTDp7-00050j-00@galvatron.kickingdragon.com>
	<mailman.6343.1100420001.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<2vp91pF2obee4U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1gn98lj.1obb1shw8nfr9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> wrote:

> >> alias cleanpy="find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm {} ';'"
> > or with backticks:  rm -rf `find . -name '*.pyc'`
> 
> Beware of spaces in filenames!

Yeah, but it's pretty unlikely, though not impossible, to have a .pyc
file, specifically, with spaces in the name; that module would be
somewhat hard to use from Python in normal ways.


Alex


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Nov 10 16:46:23 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:46:23 -0800
Subject: How to communicate to device
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6217.1100102684.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6217.1100102684.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10p52ru90lemn2e@corp.supernews.com>

kamarudin samsudin wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>Im new to linux and very very new to python. But i have to write a
>program to communicate with a devide. The device will send a data
>after i send something to it.
>  
>

This depends on the device and how it's intended to communicate with the 
computer.  Is it a serial port link, an ethernet connection, or some 
other connection mechanism?  Is there a device driver for it in /dev?  
What sort of communication protocol does it use?

Without knowing some of these specifics, we will have a hard time 
helping you, and the more specific you are, the better the help that 
you're likely to get.  (Obviously, as a newbie, you may not know *how* 
to answer some specifics, but give us what you *do* know and we'll try 
to help you find any more details that are needed.)  You may also 
benefit by reading ESR's essay "How To Ask Smart Questions" ( 
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html ).

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From davidf at sjsoft.com  Thu Nov 25 03:23:46 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 10:23:46 +0200
Subject: Python Huffman encoding
In-Reply-To: <41a525c6$0$76502$b83b6cc0@news.wanadoo.nl>
References: <41a525c6$0$76502$b83b6cc0@news.wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <co44qi$96f$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

"@ dot wrote:
> Hi all, I have written a Python huffman Encoding Module, for my own 
> amusement. I thought it might be educational/entertaining for other 
> people, so I've put it on my website and wrote about it a little.
> 
> http://gumuz.looze.net/wordpress/index.php/archives/2004/11/25/huffman-encoding/ 
> 
> 
> Your comments are highly appreciated!
> 

Looks cool. Now if only I had seen this before I implemented my own 
huffman decoding for JPEG ... I wonder if your module could be used 
instead ...


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 17 02:34:40 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 08:34:40 +0100
Subject: why python?
References: <cndpgm$s82$1@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <1gndypu.1e28rl1cgo8nsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

99%SugarFree <renee0102 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi,there
> I've just known about Python language recently for a research project.
> I'm just wondering what kind of applications out there using Python??

Hard to think of any kind of app where Python is NOT being used.
Googling for python success stories will show off a few notable cases
(those where developers could be troubled to write things up and their
management gave release etc etc).

> Where can I find more information about  the philosophical, technical and
> design features of Python??

O'Reilly's "Safari" http://search.safaribooksonline.com/ offers two free
weeks -- join and read the first few chapters of "Python in a Nutshell"
and other Python books it stores, it should give an idea well within the
two free weeks.

 
> For those of you who used Python, have you used Prolog or ML??What do u
> think of these 3 language comparing to each other when you are coding?

I've played with them both but not used them in production.  For Prolog,
I was part of the scientific audit team for a project at IBM Research in
the '80s -- being one of the few comfortable with Prolog without being
heart and soul into it, and also familiar with IBM 370 machine
architecture and assembly language (which said research project was
meant to deal with) made me sort of a natural candidate for that audit.

At the time I was impressed by how good prolog was when you were doing
what it was MEANT for, and how bad it suddenly became as soon as you
strayed and started piling up cuts &c to simulate imperative coding.  I
decided I would never have prolog as the ONLY language for a project, to
avoid the latter half.  But then, I've always liked multilanguage
approaches to large programming projects -- "one language to rule them
all" always struck me as silly, from PL/I onwards.

Functional programming is quite a different story.  Though I've never
used it in anger, I _am_ quite convinced that if you can put together a
team of people with PhD in maths or CS for all the development and
maintenance you can probably get more done with it than with languages
that let you take shortcuts by modifying data.  Whether S/ML, O'CAML,
Haskell, Erlang, or other languages yet, best embody that ideal, I can't
claim to know.  In the real world, I believe putting and keeping
together a team of people who are math whizzes IS gonna be a problem.

Python has little to do with Prolog, and not all that much more to do
with FP languages: it took from the latter quite a few ideas and
gadgets, but merged them into its very own style.  You do find yourself
making new objects (e.g. by list comprehension) rather than modidying
old ones, and generating functions on the fly (e.g. by closures), much
more often than with most imperative languages -- but modifying objects
is also quite common (more than even in multi-paradigm O'CAML), emphasis
is on iteration and against recursion (strong iteration protocol,
generators, etc, vs no tail recursion optimization, for example).

What's very surprising is that the various paradigms and ideas merge
pretty seamlessly and elegantly (much more so than in O'CAML, I think,
to give another example of a multi-paradigm language, albeit with a FP
basis at the core).  Strong but highly dynamic (runtime) typing (versus
strictly compile time typing common in FP languages, excepting maybe
Erlang), strong statement/expression distinction, and the various design
philosophies illustrated in the "Zen of Python" which was already quoted
on this thread, merge quite well to yield high productivity, in Python.


Alex


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Nov 26 00:54:49 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 21:54:49 -0800
Subject: Few things
In-Reply-To: <20041125204315.FA26.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <5c882bb5.0411251641.6177ee9d@posting.google.com>
	<20041125204315.FA26.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20041125215400.FA29.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

> theory) end up repeatedly (logn) time selecting the 'kth' smallest
> element (varying k's), where sorting would actually run slightly faster.

That should have read:
theory) end up repeatedly (logn times) selecting the...

 - Josiah




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Nov 16 20:50:43 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:50:43 -0800
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <419A4E64.6050005@colorstudy.com>
References: <20041116085317.F96A.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<419A4E64.6050005@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <20041116174139.F982.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> 
> Josiah Carlson wrote:
> >>Since the actual need for type-checking is extremely rare, I contend it
> >>should not _at all_ be a candidate for a syntax to facilitate it.  Since
> >>the actual need for adaptation is much wider, I contend it's the one
> >>obvious choice for the "nice syntax" if any.
> > 
> > 
> > Sounds reasonable, but there will be a group of people who will beg and
> > plead for type checking, because they want "static type checking on
> > function call and return".
> 
> Yes, but they've been begging for it for years.  They seem insistant 
> that this Python Thing will never catch on without these important features.

And they can keep insisting.  It hasn't stopped it from catching on yet
*wink*.


> Anyway, a much more general and useful feature would be contracts. 
> Which is just to say, a formal place to put constraints on input and 
> output for a function.  Contracts could include type checking -- 
> sometimes quite validly -- but not necessarily.  There's no type that 
> can indicate "only valid username strings" or "only integers contrained 
> by some global variable".

Certainly not, but an arbitrary 'argument validator' decorator is just
minutes away from someone implementing it (and likely has more than a
few times already).


> > @ multi_dispatch_to_methods
> > class A(object):
> >   dispatch = dispatch_factory()
> >   
> >   @ dispatch(int)
> >   def foo(x): ...
> > 
> >   @ dispatch(float)
> >   def foo(x): ...
> > 
> > 
> > It may have a couple warts, but it is implementable today.
> 
> Phillip Eby just did this, in like the last week.  It's very cool:
> 
>    http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/VisitorRevisited
>    http://www.eby-sarna.com/pipermail/peak/2004-November/001916.html
> 
> It looks similar to what you were thinking:
> 
> class A(object):
>      @dispatch.on('x')
>      def foo(x):
>          """This is a dummy function, for documentation purposes"""
> 
>      @foo.when(int)
>      def foo(x): ...
> 
>      @foo.when(float)
>      def foo(x): ...
> 
> Of course, you can use interfaces in addition to types, and you can also 
> use arbitrary expressions (e.g., @foo.when("x % 2") and @foo.when("not x 
> % 2") to dispatch odd and even numbers separately).

There goes Phillip Eby going off and doing something reasonable again.

 - Josiah



From jfabiani at yolo.com  Sun Nov 28 09:54:00 2004
From: jfabiani at yolo.com (John Fabiani)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 14:54:00 GMT
Subject: Psycopg2 mirror availability
References: <mailman.6848.1101650795.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cElqd.26005$zx1.17571@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>

Andrew James wrote:

> All,
> I'd like to be able to use psycopg2's new features for my development
> work with postgresql, but unfortunately the init.d site seems to be
> broken and I can't get to the repository there.
> 
> Does anyone know:
> a) Why init.d is down, and when it might be back up
> b) Where I might be able to find a psycopg2 mirror, and
> c) Whether there's a Gentoo ebuild available?
> 
> Any help would be much appreciated,
> 
> Regards,
> Andrew
> 
> 
I don't think there is a mirror.  I also can confirm that the site appears
to be down.
John


From just at xs4all.nl  Thu Nov 11 08:26:03 2004
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:26:03 +0100
Subject: Iterating over PDF documents
References: <cmv9j2$et5$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<just-88A7ED.10461211112004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
	<cmve68$iqq$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <just-9EDFF3.14260311112004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <cmve68$iqq$1 at swifty.westend.com>,
 Peter Maas <peter at somewhere.com> wrote:

> Just schrieb:
> > try this:
> > 
> >    for line in open(path, "U"):  # universal newline mode
> 
> Thanks, Just, I tried this but the edited PDF was damaged.

That's probably because PDF can also contain arbitrary binary data, 
which would indeed break if all occurances of \r\n and \r were replaced 
by \n...

Just


From mauriceling at acm.org  Sun Nov  7 01:21:45 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 17:21:45 +1100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <gjcro0lu846okdd6br5col7v20j0gfs99f@4ax.com>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c718a6cf.0411061137.683823ec@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6022.1099784038.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<gjcro0lu846okdd6br5col7v20j0gfs99f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <418DBEF9.7070207@acm.org>

> What???  If you are referring to the original IBM PC, which did ship with
> 64k base memory, that was 1980, not 1960.  You could certainly order one
> with more than 64kB.
> 
> In the late 1960s, IBM was worrying about the System/360.  It had a lot
> more than 64kB of base memory.
> 
I was thinking about the part whereby a program is allocated 64k memory 
and other allocations are heap allocations which needs pointers. I 
vaguely recall Turbo Pascal manual mentioned that you cannot statically 
allocate more than 64k of variable memory, which is why pointers are 
needed to circumvent it. And there is something called extended memory 
manager (EMM386.com or something) in DOS 5 that is needed to address up 
to 640kB of memory or something...

DISCLAIMER: before I am flamed again, I wish to say that these are from 
vague memories of more than a decade ago. I may be COMPLETELTY WRONG. I 
was then still an early teens trying to get my games running......


> 
>>>it is comparing versions that are YEARS out of date and use!
>>
>>Are the codebase of Python 1.5.2 and Java 1.1 totally replaced and 
>>deprecated?
> 
> 
> For new development, yes, Python 1.5.2 has been totally replaced.  There
> are legacy applications running in Python 1.5.2 that aren't worth the
> trouble to upgrade.
> 
> 
>>Lisp compiler is the 1st compiler to be created (according to the 
>>Red-Dragon book, I think) and almost all others are created by 
>>bootstrapping to LISP compiler.
> 
> 
> That's just silly.  It is true that LISP was one of the pioneers of the
> compiled languages, but other compilers were not written in LISP.  Almost
> without exception, compilers were all written in assembly language until
> Pascal came around.

I'm wrong again. I suppose what I am trying to suggest is that design 
decisions made in the last may have a longer effect than what we 
consciously think. At least this is the impression I get while reading 
James Gosling's argument that Java should be object-oriented from day 1 
(and not added onto the language, like in C++) in The Java Programming 
Environment: A white paper.

maurice


From dieringe at zedat.fu-berlin.de  Mon Nov 22 09:28:54 2004
From: dieringe at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Martin Dieringer)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:28:54 +0100
Subject: split large file by string/regex
References: <v5l872-sd4.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.6695.1101132348.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7m9972-0c6.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>

Jason Rennie <jrennie at csail.mit.edu> writes:

> On Mon, Nov 22, 2004 at 09:38:55AM +0100, Martin Dieringer wrote:
>> I am trying to split a file by a fixed string.
>> The file is too large to just read it into a string and split this.
>> I could probably use a lexer but there maybe anything more simple?
>
> If the pattern is contained within a single line, do something like this:

Hmm it's binary data, I can't tell how long lines would be. OTOH a
line would certainly contain the pattern as it has no \n in it... and
the lines probably wouldn't be too large for memory...

m.


From ian.rmthispart at excess.org  Thu Nov  4 23:17:07 2004
From: ian.rmthispart at excess.org (Ian Ward)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 23:17:07 -0500
Subject: urwid with multi-byte encoded and bidirectional text?
Message-ID: <418AFEC3.8020806@excess.org>

I hope to add support for multi-byte encoded and bidirectional text to
my curses-based UI library:
http://excess.org/urwid/

I would like to support whatever encoding the user likes.  Are there
functions for:
- querying the preferred encoding
- splitting encoded strings into characters based on an encoding
- determining the direction (L to R, R to L) of each character
- determining the number of columns used by each character when written 
to the terminal

I currently use a "line translation" structure to store instructions
for mapping a text string to a two-dimensional "canvas". Its current,
simple, format is described here:
http://excess.org/urwid/reference.html#Text-get_line_translation

The line translation structures describe the result of
word-wrapping/clipping and justification applied to the source text. A
*new* line translation format would have to support characters that are
N bytes in the string and M columns wide when displayed, as well as text
that is displayed in a different order than it appears in the string.

Is normalizing bidirectional text orthogonal to wrapping/clipping and
aligning that text?  Could I create a "direction translation" structure
that describes how a given string can be reordered Left-to-Right, then
solve the wrapping and alignment with this normalized version?

In what situations are characters modified/removed/inserted as part of
displaying them? (eg. punctuation being reversed when surrounding R to L
text)

TIA

Ian Ward <ian#excess,org>


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Wed Nov 10 20:03:51 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:03:51 -0500
Subject: distutils and Debian
In-Reply-To: <slrncp5cf6.v8.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
References: <4192AD69.5040707@sympatico.ca>
	<slrncp5cf6.v8.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <qeGdnUA1FNXrJw_cRVn-oA@giganews.com>

Sam Holden wrote:


>>Should this be reported as a Debian bug?

> No.

I would say yes ... there is no logic in crippling
a standard python distribution. What else is missing?

Istvan.



From jfabiani at yolo.com  Sun Nov 28 14:58:52 2004
From: jfabiani at yolo.com (John Fabiani)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 19:58:52 GMT
Subject: Newbie MySQLdb / MySQL version problem, I think
References: <q5idnQ4l3bB-gTfcRVn-hQ@rcn.net>
Message-ID: <06qqd.32905$6q2.16566@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>

Dave Merrill wrote:

> Sorry for the newbness... Win2K, Python 2.3.3, MySQL 4.1.7. Downloaded and
> extracted MySQL-python-1.0.0.win32-py2.3.zip. Put the whole extracted
> directory into C:\Program Files\Python23\Lib\site-packages\ and renamed it
> to "MySQLdb.
> 
Why not download the 1.1.5 if you have concerns
http://sourceforge.net/projects/mysql-python
John




From zjbywesb at search26.com  Tue Nov 30 10:29:10 2004
From: zjbywesb at search26.com (vandalin)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 07:29:10 -0800
Subject: Matching Control Characters
References: <mailman.5799.1099379848.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4c248b9b.0411300729.69e85d53@posting.google.com>

http://www.ardice.com/Arts/Movies/Titles/1/13th_Letter,_The


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Nov 23 14:19:23 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:19:23 +0100
Subject: drag and drop graphics in tkinter?
References: <e5063e96.0411221615.2741def4@posting.google.com>
	<41a2fb94$0$8155$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<e5063e96.0411231051.56728243@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <co02fn$t49$04$1@news.t-online.com>

> I'm looking for a way to use drag-and-dropping to pick up a graphic
> and move it from one place to another. For example, I thought I could
> get my feet wet by writing a script to represent small graphs (in the
> nodes-and-vertices sense) as collections of dots and lines onscreen.
> Moving the the dots around (while maintaining line-indicated
> connections between dots) could furnish a graphical way of
> investigating questions like planarity and isomorphism.


That's not what commonly is associated with drag-and-drop - the reason
beeing that the interesting thing about drag and drop is to create a sort
of event in the drop-target that is filled with information about _what_
has been dropped - e.g. a file location - and then act accordingly. This is
not so much about the graphical appearance, but much more about protocol
issues.

What you want is to utilize the canvas widget. It can create graphics
primitives, and there are plenty of events available so that you get
noticed when the user picks a node (presumably rendered by a circle) and
drags it around. 

I've done that years ago, and tk was quite easy to use. But as its a more
tk-specific question, I suggest you search for tk canvas examples, and
translate them to tkinter.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 19:45:24 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 19:45:24 -0500
Subject: Why is heapify linear?
In-Reply-To: <4186cb77$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <4186cb77$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <1f7befae04110116453cddea02@mail.gmail.com>

[Scott David Daniels]
> I am sorry, but in the Python 2.4 description of "heapify", I find the
> description of "Transform list x into a heap, in-place, in linear time,"
> unbelievable.  I understand the hand-wave that makes dictionary building
> linear (though I have a hard time with even that).  Could somebody tell
> me what twist of logic makes "heapify" linear, except in the sense that
> linear is coming to mean "very fast?"

There are no hands waving.  Dict-building is best-case and
expected-case linear time, but worst-case quadratic time.  For
heapification, all three are linear.  That's all rigorously provable
(and typically are so proved in a first course on algorithmic
complexity).  Google on

    heapify linear

to find proofs for heapification bounds.  But you perhaps won't
*believe* it until you can't deny it <wink>.  So try it:

"""
class CmpCounter:
    def __init__(self, i):
        self.i = i

    def __cmp__(self, other):
        global cmpcount
        cmpcount += 1
        return cmp(self.i, other.i)

from heapq import heapify
import random
n = 10000

xs = [CmpCounter(i) for i in range(n)]

def tryone(tag, xs):
    global cmpcount
    cmpcount = 0
    heapify(xs)
    print tag, "len", len(xs), "# comparisions", cmpcount

for i in range(10):
    random.shuffle(xs)
    tryone("random", xs)

xs.sort()
tryone("already sorted", xs)

xs.sort(reverse=True) # using 2.4b1 here
tryone("reverse sorted", xs)
"""

"Already sorted" is essentially the worst case for min-heap
heapification (each new element added is then the smallest seen so
far, and has to bubble all the way from the bottom of the heap-so-far
to the new root location).

Note that "the obvious" way to transform a list into a heap is not
worst-case linear time.  Linear-time heapification is due to Floyd. 
Someone should patent it <wink>.


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 17:53:27 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 22:53:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmp6xu.zmiw6gs3250sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5890.1099529745.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmpyz8.11h86a71kjmdttN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5916.1099587353.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdntd$788$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5920.1099589545.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmqqa3.r7hg5g17qatxkN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5931.1099600462.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmqxmb.1r4easa174a86N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1gmr0ue.zaft2j1b4lr0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041104T234058-971@post.gmane.org>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit <at> yahoo.com> writes:
> 
[snip example decomposing float representation into mantissa, etc.]
> 
[snip example determining struct type from first few bytes]
>
[snip example decomposing 16 bit error code into two 8 bit error codes]
> 
[snip example determining utf-8 or utf-16 by trying byte stream as both]

Thanks for the examples!

I'm not quite convinced by the decomposition examples or the struct type
example, but the UTF example is definitely convincing.  I can imagine that you
could extend this type of example to any case where you didn't know the actual
type of a struct.  Given this situation, you could try treating the bytes as
each of the possible struct types, and see (heuristically or perhaps with a
machine learning approach) which struct type is most appropriate.

This definitely meets my criterion of treating the same set of bytes as two
different structures, and it's even useful! =)  Thanks!

Steve



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Mon Nov  8 15:29:19 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 17:29:19 -0300 
Subject: Escape chars in string
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7B88@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Ivo Woltring]

#- I have this app that I want to be able to present in more 
#- than 1 language.
#- To do this I use ConfigParser with an ini file.

You really should check "gettext".

.	Facundo
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From michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it  Tue Nov  2 03:36:19 2004
From: michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it (Michele Petrazzo)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 09:36:19 +0100
Subject: [wx] Simple image editor
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.30.19.05.37.539206@jerf.org>
References: <clvmtr$8vl$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
	<pan.2004.10.30.19.05.37.539206@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <cm7gvu$c0s$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>

Jeremy Bowers wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:28:35 +0200, Michele Petrazzo wrote:
> 
> 
>>Please don't tell me to read the GIMP's source :).
> 
> 
> Why read GIMP's source when you can use it?
Because I want to understand how it work, not how the user use the tools.

> Can you shell out your manipulations, and then just take a changed version
> of the image back in?
> 
> Of course, any image editor will work then, too.
> 
> Maybe not, I don't know your needs. But it is worth thinking about. Image
> editors are in the class of applications that you should go to great
> lengths to avoid rewriting. To get anything beyond the Paint that shipped
> with Windows 3.1 is a major effort, plus unless you really, really know
> your users don't want anything but primitive text overlays, you're asking
> for an infinite amount of feature requests to add things that other image
> editors already have. 

I want to add a simple image editor into my application, that not is an 
image editor,but a fax client, so the features of place text/lines are 
the only that I need.

> Plus, the naive implementations of things like
> "undo" eat memory for lunch.
The "undo" work yet correctly.I have three list with:
1) all the points of the lines, ...
2) text, font, color, position, dimensions, ...
3) "l" or "t", that mean line or text.
Every time that I place a line, I append into list 1 all the values and 
into list 3 a "l". for the text is the same.
When I press undo button, I pop a value from list 3, and pop a value 
from correspondent list. After this I rewrite all the bitmaps.

It work, but if I have a lot of "objects", I must attempt that it redraw 
all.

Thanks,
Michele Petrazzo


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Nov 18 10:41:01 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:41:01 +0100
Subject: numarray
References: <2617fd5d.0411180721.12c50d8a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cnifqa$cvp$02$1@news.t-online.com>

> if I just enter
> 
>>>>Import Numeric
> 
> I get
> 
>>>> 
> 
> indicating that numarray is installed correctly.
> 
> What am I doing wrong?

I doubt that that works. "Import" won't do it - it yields a syntax error.

What you meant is 

import Numarray

But you have to keep in mind that importing a module that way will not put
it in the global namespace. So you have to qualify function names:

Numarray.array

Or you import them using the "from" syntax, which will bind the Numarray
names in the global namespace:

from Numarray import *


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From alain.marcel at svd-info.fr  Fri Nov  5 08:58:43 2004
From: alain.marcel at svd-info.fr (Alain)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 05:58:43 -0800
Subject: PyXml and XPath implementation
Message-ID: <a4686a1f.0411050558.1f844225@posting.google.com>

Hi !

I'm looking for an XPath implementation (even partial) on PyXML.
I'm using libxml2 on Windows XP.
It works well but I have to port my application on RISCOS (OS on ARM
processor) where only PyXML is ported.

Thanks.
Alain


From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Wed Nov  3 12:38:18 2004
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:38:18 +0100
Subject: Problems with profiling results (hotshot or normal) : almost
 all are incorrect
In-Reply-To: <41882aa4.1466900701@news.oz.net>
References: <41881ba2$0$78738$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<41882aa4.1466900701@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <41891788$0$78772$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 00:43:31 +0100, Irmen de Jong <irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hello
>>I haven't received any responses on my original posting,
>>and it could very well be that it never made it to the newsgroup
>>(because I can't find it back on my news server here).
>>So I'm posting this again. Sorry if it *did* make it to
>>the group.. Please consider trying my test-program that is given
>>here and let me know how it works on your python installation.
>>
>>Thanks for any insight on this.
>>
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\pywk\clp\irmen2.py", line 86, in ?
>     import hotshot, hotshot.stats, wait
> ImportError: No module named wait
> 
> Where does wait come from?

Aww, terribly sorry. Should test any code that I post.
(I called the test script "wait.py" on my system, that's
why it worked here, locally)

Here's a fixed version:

import time

def foo():
     # idle wait loop
     time.sleep(0.5)
def bar():
     # busy (CPU) wait loop
     s=time.time()
     while time.time()<(s+0.5):
         pass

def test():
     for i in range(10):
         foo()
         bar()

if __name__=="__main__":
     import hotshot, hotshot.stats
     import profile, pstats

     print "HOTSHOT profiling..."
     prof = hotshot.Profile("wait.prof")
     prof.runcall(test)
     prof.close()
     print "PROFILE DONE"
     stats = hotshot.stats.load("wait.prof")
     stats.strip_dirs()
     stats.sort_stats('time', 'calls')
     stats.print_stats(40)

     print "Normal profiler..."
     profile.run('test()', 'wait.prof')
     print "profile done"
     stats = pstats.Stats('wait.prof')
     stats.strip_dirs()
     stats.sort_stats('time', 'calls')
     stats.print_stats(40)


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  6 12:57:03 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 18:57:03 +0100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<wdWdnZ-fWZxWlBDcRVn-vw@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1gmueqr.1hs16lxfjegpuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Dan Perl <danperl at rogers.com> wrote:

> Are you learning any new subject now and are you involved in a newsgroup as
> a newbie?  If you're not doing that already, python experts, please try it
> and you'll probably see what it's like.  No better way to see the other
> side's point of view than being on the other side.

What if we do, _AND_ carefully follow Eric Raymond's excellent
recommendations each and every time we ask for help?  Are then we
allowed to loathe and despise the mass of clueless dweebs?-)

I can be a newbie at a bazillion subjects, easily -- but I cannot truly
be a newbie at such tasks as human interaction, social dynamics, general
information retrieval and processing.  I can easily guess what will
happen if I enter any mailing list or newsgroup with both guns blazing
out of frustration, for example, and therefore I cannot easily
sympathize with anybody who _does_ behave so foolishly.  It's not a
matter of expertise about any specific subject, not even exactly one of
skills, but rather one of personal maturity and character.

I know how to search mailing list archives, or google groups ones, and
considerate enough to use this easily acquired and very useful knowledge
to try and avoid wasting other people's time and energy, for example, by
airing some complaint that's been made a thousand times and answered
very comprehensively.  When I can't find an answer that way, I ask with
courtesy and consideration and appreciation for the time of the people
who, I hope, will be answering my questions. Etc, etc -- reread Eric's
essay on how to ask for help, it's a great piece of work.

That doesn't mean a newbie isn't always welcome, _if_ they show any sign
whatever of being worth it.  But asking for tolerance and patience
against _rude_ newbies which barge in with shrill, mostly unjustified,
repetitious complaints, is, I think, a rather far-fetched request.


Alex


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Nov 19 14:42:43 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:42:43 -0600
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <20041119192934.EB3A81E4009@bag.python.org>
References: <16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<20041119192934.EB3A81E4009@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <16798.19635.797903.635071@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Eddie> Best way to discourage visual basic knock offs, is to try and use
    Eddie> visual basic, in my opinion.

QOTW?

S


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Nov 30 17:38:10 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:38:10 +0100
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Ice 2.0 released
References: <ketod.45140$K7.3294@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<ted8q0h19c4disktejd9ur7pdgec0h1hl0@4ax.com>
	<s7SdnfFRp_kLGjncRVn-1A@speakeasy.net>
	<22868227.0411300634.1d333921@posting.google.com>
	<0YidnREmZ8xECDHcRVn-oA@speakeasy.net>
	<22868227.0411301123.c18dec9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <coisoi$h3g$05$1@news.t-online.com>

> I believe whichever road you take, ZeroC is going to find itself in
> problems.  If ZeroC merges the changes made by this/these person(s),
> how can ZeroC now sell it under a commercial license, as closed source
> (violation of GPL)?  If you refuse to merge the changes, you have just
> given them a strong impetus to fork.  History shows XEmacs and EGCS as
> two such examples.

AFAIK qt is licensed the same way. And there is nothing bad about forks -
but they have to be GPLed too.

Maybe you're not aware of an implication of GPL: A product _using_ a GPL'd
library also has to be GPL. That means you can't develop a commercially
marketed product on top of a GPL library - AFAIK the exact reason why the
LGPL was created, so that you may not alter the lib itself and  sell it,
but at least sell software that _uses_ the lib.

So all in all, it seems the GPL/Commercial license makes sense - it does for
trolltech :) And there is nothing in GPL that forces you to integrate code
you've been offered - otherwise, killing a GPL lib would mean to delete all
from a CVS checkout and submit a patch from that - obviouly nobody would
enforce that.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From belred1 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  5 01:55:22 2004
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 06:55:22 GMT
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>

Maurice LING wrote:
> This may be a dumb thing to ask, but besides the penalty for dynamic 
> typing, is there any other real reasons that Python is slower than Java?
> 
> maurice

at work, we use java and python.  we have projects using swing and others using wxpython.  we have applications that do 
intensive io and others that do intensive cpu. we have not found that python is slower than java.   in fact, when it 
comes to gui's, our swing apps take "forever" to startup and when when garbage collector starts, the whole app just 
freezes for about 15 seconds.  our wxpython apps, start right up and "feel" faster and snappier.  can you show an 
example of where python's "slow" speed as compared to java's "fast" speed has negatively impacted your application or 
has been noticable in any way?  i know this is a trolling question you have posted, but i'm actually very interested 
knowing why you have said this.

thanks,

bryan


From dmerrillq at usaq.netq  Tue Nov 30 08:55:37 2004
From: dmerrillq at usaq.netq (Dave Merrill)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 08:55:37 -0500
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.4 (final)
References: <mailman.6913.1101817983.5135.python-list@python.org><8sGdnQjN6qGu7THcRVn-3A@rcn.net>
	<mailman.6920.1101822678.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <A7idnTeBdOpE5jHcRVn-qg@rcn.net>

Used the packaged Windows (win2k) installs of Python and all components I
described. Not a C guy, no compiler, minimal knowledge about them.

Dave Merrill

"Anthony Baxter" wrote:
> > Newb question: Is it possible/recommended  to have multiple versions of
> > Python installed simultaneously? Earlier, I installed 2.4rc1, and a
number
> > of things in my 2.3.3 install stopped working. Are there known
techniques
> > for managing multiple versions?
>
> If you're building from source, use 'make altinstall' rather than
> 'make install'.
> This will install Python as $prefix/bin/python2.4, and leave the
> 'python' executable
> alone.




From nun at example.com  Mon Nov  8 17:12:00 2004
From: nun at example.com (Mitja)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 23:12:00 +0100
Subject: Determining combination of bits
References: <x3Qjd.121786$hj.41260@fed1read07>
	<mailman.6124.1099945664.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8KQjd.121796$hj.4674@fed1read07> <418ff674$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <p7Sjd.5365$F6.1280593@news.siol.net>

Scott David Daniels wrote:
> Sean Berry wrote:
>> Just to set everyone's mind at ease... I haven't had a
>> homework assignment for about four years now.
> OK, then here's a great little bit of education:
>
>     n & -n == least significant bit of n

A lapse of mind?
>>> n = 6
>>> n & (-n)
2

You probably meant n&1 or perhaps n%2.




From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Sun Nov  7 06:46:43 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 7 Nov 2004 03:46:43 -0800
Subject: cherrypy/cheetah vs twisted/nevow
References: <slrncoc0tr.1tc7.charlotte@xs2.xs4all.nl>	<mailman.5766.1099319968.5135.python-list@python.org>	<418818ca$0$19452$626a14ce@news.free.fr>	<mailman.5867.1099489510.5135.python-list@python.org>	<69cbbef2.0411050857.6dfe11bd@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6014.1099765795.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0411070346.6c6c0eaf@posting.google.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.6014.1099765795.5135.python-list at python.org>...
Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

> I'm not sure if I understand your point, and it may be the case that
> I'm really missing something. I think that, by its very definition,
> templating systems (including variables, conditionals, loops, and
> other control structures) *do* mix some aspects from the model into
> the view. 

You're confusing presentation logic with business logic. In MVC, only
*business* logic should go in the Model layer; presentation logic
belongs elsewhere. The Model does *not* dictate how the User Interface
layer(s) should receive input or present data. Think of the Model as a
complete program within another program, containing all the smarts
needed to do its job but providing no way for end-users to interact
with that data. All it supplies is an API into which user-interface
code can connect.

Aside from just being good architecture by minimising the amount of
coupling between code, such separation is genuinely useful. For
example, one should be able to plug any number of UIs into a single
Model to handle input and present data in different ways. Many Mac
applications provide at least two user interfaces out of the box: a
graphical user interface and an Apple event interface. Some implement
more, e.g. BBEdit also provides a CLI interface, FileMaker a web
interface. Web applications may provide a browser-based interface PLUS
an XML-RPC/SOAP interface. And so on.

A good mental test is to ask yourself: "If I remove the UI, will the
Model still function if I control it programmatically directly by its
API? If I replace the Model with an API stub that silently accepts
input and returns dummy data, will my UI still function? Can replace
one UI with another? Can I add multiple UIs, and will they all work at
the same time?"


> One may argue at which extent it's possible to keep both
> apart -- at some point, there must be an interface -- so it may be a
> matter of personal choice.

MVC is quite clear about where the interface goes: between business
logic and presentation logic.


> My current standing (after a long break from applications development,
> which allowed me to re-enter with a fresh perspective, but also a
> little 'rusty') is that the templating interface should be made
> simpler,

Oh, I agree completely. I wrote two other templating systems before
HTMLTemplate, and they were huge, complex beasts because I failed to
factor the problem adequately before charging ahead with the solution.
With HTMLTemplate I finally got it right. Whereas most templating
systems provide direct support for both presentation logic and markup,
HTMLTemplate implements support for the markup side only and leaves
the host language to take care of all logic. This gives a system that
is both extremely simple (turning markup into a simple object model is
trivial) and incredibly powerful (as powerful as the host language, in
fact, since that's what the presentation logic is written in).


> that the model should take care of the intermediation.

Absolutely not. Presentation logic belongs in the UI code, not the
Model.

With systems like Cheetah and TAL, the presentation logic is embedded
within the template markup itself. I don't like this approach myself
because it makes the template system responsible for supporting that
logic, adding a huge amount of complexity to it (something I learned
the hard way myself). See also Greenspun's Tenth Rule.

With PyMeld, Nevow.Renderer and HTMLTemplate, the presentation logic
goes in a separate Python script, where it clogs up neither business
logic nor HTML markup and makes the templating engine a cinch to
implement as the only thing it has to do is convert markup into a form
the script can manipulate - a trivial task.


> For example, I *feel* that repetitive elements (like
> lists and reports) shouldn't be modelled as programming loops inside a
> template. I really don't have a solution for this yet. 

This is presentation logic, so belongs in the UI layer(s).


> Albeit
> confusing, XSLT is a step in the right direction, but it sometimes
> feels like they're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. 

XSLT is a basic declarative language beneath a really horrible syntax.
Like macro-style templating systems it spends an inordinate amount of
effort implementing a ridiculously complex and expensive solution to
what should be a trivial problem, then patting itself on the back for
its incredible brilliance and devotion to hard work for
successfully... reinventing the wheel (yet again). I find this sort of
thing terribly depressing, because it conditions people into thinking
complex solutions to complex problems are actually something to aspire
to, rather than avoid as much as possible. To quote Alan Perlis:
"Fools ignore complexity. Pragmatists suffer it. Some can avoid it.
Geniuses remove it." But anyway, I digress...


> Nevow implement a very intriguing idea: it allows to derive the *structure*
> from the template. 

Nevow implements six or seven extremely interesting ideas. I think its
biggest problem is it does this as one huge package rather than six or
seven independent modules, which makes it a bit of a bear to get on
top of and also cuts down on reusability which is a shame.


> I'm still looking, though.

I'd suggest looking at HTMLTemplate. It's simpler than Nevow.Renderer
and faster than PyMeld, mature, has no significant dependencies and is
small enough to pull apart and grok (and hack) quite easily:

http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/htmltemplate.html

It also maps well to the Apple definition of MVC:

- The View layer is constructed by the template compiler, which
converts HTML markup into a simple, specialised object model.

- The Controller layer is provided in the form of a callback function,
renderTemplate (the compiler attaches this to the compiled template
for your convenience) and some code to tell the compiled template to
render some data, and do something useful with the result. (Graham
Dumpleton has been working on a simple framework to handle all the
dogsbody work here for you
<http://www.dscpl.com.au/projects/vampire>.)

- The Model layer is entirely your own business; all it needs to do is
provide an API that your Controller can talk to in order to obtain the
data it needs to insert into the template.

(Admittedly, the trivial examples I've provided don't show separate
Model and Controller layers, but that's because they're too simple to
need a proper Model. I've done more complex stuff that does though,
and it works out just fine.)

HTH

has


From sonium at gmail.com  Wed Nov  3 12:08:37 2004
From: sonium at gmail.com (Sonium)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:08:37 +0100
Subject: Problems using numarray
Message-ID: <cmb3al$sgi$00$2@news.t-online.com>

Hi, I am new to numarray and I'm going to use it in a nummerical 
computation of planet and probe orbits. There for I created a body 
class, representing an gravity affected mass (like a planet or a probe).
Now I have different bodys each with it's own position, velocity and 
mass that pull each other together by gravity. Based on the previous 
position and velocity I'm now calculating the positions and velocity for 
  the next timeframe and so on... So I get a quite high amout of data 
because i have to store (number-of-bodys)*(number-of-timeframe) objects.

Now, how can I use a numaray to store the body objects? I read the docu, 
but didn't figure out how to solve my problem. In C++ I just created a 
multidimensilnal array like data = new body[objects*timeframes] and I'm 
looking for something synonymous with numarray.

- Sonium


From michael at stroeder.com  Tue Nov  2 13:40:48 2004
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 19:40:48 +0100
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
In-Reply-To: <4187b7a1$0$2383$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
	<du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<4187b7a1$0$2383$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <hu0l52-ml1.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

Peter Hickman wrote:
> 
> Just today we required a module that was not installed on our system.
> 
> sudo perl -MCPAN -e 'install Data::Pager'
> 
> And it was installed with all it's dependencies.

I'd rather call that a security and maintenance nightmare...

Ciao, Michael.


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 18 11:31:28 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 08:31:28 -0800
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
	number of output arguments)
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.6511.1100727971.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0411180831.e44ae56@posting.google.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dicts are not the best way to make it, because they are not ordered
> :-) But perhaps we could have something like "named tuples";
> 
> @returns('year','month','day')
> def today():
>     ...
>     return year, month, day

As someone has mentioned, usage of tuples is not very scalable and
tend to lend itself to carcass entries in the long run, or simply to
the breaking of compatibility. But I guess in your case, you want to
do something like printing out the results, so, as long as all items
are involved, an order would be beneficial.

------------------

For whatever it's worth, here are two more approaches for unordered
keyword argument and return.

(1) Usage of structures certainly is painful in C++, but not in
Python. What I often use is some generic object:

class Generic: pass

def today(p):
    print p.message
    r = Generic()
    r.year, r.month, r.day = 2004, 11, 18
    return r

p=Generic()
p.message = 'Hello!'
result = today(p)

I suspect a large number of people use this approach. Generic objects
are also good for pickling/serialization. (By the way, why is the new
style class "object()" made so that no dynamic attributes can be
assigned to it? Compared to dictionary, generic object is very helpful
as a syntax gadget and is used by many people. I am a bit surprised
that it's not part of the language. Why make so many people having to
resort to the "class Generic: pass" trick?)

(2) Use the function object itself:


def f():
    if not hasattr(f,'x'):
       f.x = 1
    else:
       f.x += 1
    f.y, f.z = 2*f.x, 3*f.x

f()
print f.x, f.y, f.z
f()
print f.x, f.y, f.z

Of course, this approach has more limited applicability. (Not good for
multithreaded case, not good for renaming the function object or
passing it around.)

Hung Jung


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Nov 20 17:48:29 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 23:48:29 +0100
Subject: unicode question
In-Reply-To: <qkLnd.22919$jf.19362@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
References: <qkLnd.22919$jf.19362@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
Message-ID: <419fc9b9$0$198$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

wolfgang haefelinger wrote:
> I wonder especially about case 2. I can see that "print y" makes a call to
> Y.__str__() . But Y.__str__() can be printed?? So what is 'print' exactly
> doing?

It looks at sys.stdout.encoding. If this is set, and the thing to print
is a unicode string, it converts it to the stream encoding, and prints
the result of the conversion.

Regards,
Martin


From michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it  Mon Nov 22 12:54:05 2004
From: michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it (Michele Petrazzo)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:54:05 +0100
Subject: zip module password
Message-ID: <cnt99a$n2n$2@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>

Is there a method for add a password to a file created by zip module?

Thanks,
Michele


From craig at postnewspapers.com.au  Mon Nov 22 04:17:47 2004
From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:17:47 +0800
Subject: readlines() with large file raises: IOError: [Errno 12] Cannot
	allocate memory
In-Reply-To: <10500383.1101114384879.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail-01.arcor-online.net>
References: <10500383.1101114384879.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail-01.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <1101115067.7573.4.camel@albert.localnet>

On Mon, 2004-11-22 at 17:06, nicogrubert at arcor.de wrote:

> Does pyhon tries to put the content [of the readlines() operation ]
> into machine's RAM (512 MB) which is not big enough so an
> exception is raised?

Pretty much, yeah. A memory allocation failed, probably because of
running out of RAM and swap, as it loaded the entire file into RAM and
made a list out of it.

Consider using file.xreadlines() instead - that uses an iterator to the
job and is much more memory efficient.

--
Craig Ringer



From holbertr at dma.org  Mon Nov 29 15:20:15 2004
From: holbertr at dma.org (Rick Holbert)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:20:15 -0500
Subject: date diff calc
References: <K_-dnRIyHJPs_DbcRVn-jg@is.co.za>
Message-ID: <cog0ak$6pd$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>

Here's how to do it as a one-liner:

python -c "import datetime; import time; print 'Only %d days until
Christmas' %  (datetime.date(2004, 12, 25) -
datetime.date.fromtimestamp(time.time())).days"

Here's a slightly shorter way of doing it:

python -c "import time; print 'Only %f more days until Christmas' % 
(float(time.mktime(time.strptime('2004-12-25', '%Y-%m-%d')) -
time.time()) / 86400)"


From riko.wichmann at remove-this.desy.de  Tue Nov 30 03:49:05 2004
From: riko.wichmann at remove-this.desy.de (Riko Wichmann)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:49:05 +0100
Subject: comment out more than 1 line at once?
Message-ID: <cohc71$2pqli$1@claire.desy.de>

Dear all,

is there a way in Python to comment out blocks of code without putting a 
# in front of each line? Somethings like C's

/*
	block of code here is commented out
*/

Thanks,

	Riko


From steve at ferg.org  Wed Nov 17 10:51:43 2004
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 07:51:43 -0800
Subject: seeking a new host for the "Python Grimoire"
References: <b16e4ef7.0411161729.51e2ea80@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0411170751.1a142bb5@posting.google.com>

STATUS UPDATE

Talking to Richie Hindle has given me the idea of setting up the
Grimoire as a wiki on Python.org.

I'm not a real sophisticated wiki user, but I can probably do it.  

I really like the idea of the Grimoire becoming community-maintained
documentation, something that I've advocated for a long time, and
something that I think we need more of.

If the wiki idea doesn't work out, there are a couple of folks who
have volunteered to host the Grimoire in the future.


From janimal at mail.trillegaarden.dk  Mon Nov 22 16:12:45 2004
From: janimal at mail.trillegaarden.dk (Peter.....)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:12:45 +0100
Subject: login script to database
Message-ID: <41a25361$0$17573$ba624c82@nntp06.dk.telia.net>

Hi all.

I want to make a login script( using python) to a homepage.
The password and name is stored in a PostgreSQL database, so I have to go to 
connect to the database ( I know how to do that )
but I dont know how to write a login script in python and how to look if the 
password and name entered is the same as in the database, if it is I want to 
link to a webpage www.webpage.com if it isnt I want it to write a message 
like " Wrong password entered "

Can any help me out :D

Thanks for your time.. 




From caleb1 at telkomsa.net  Sat Nov 27 21:58:56 2004
From: caleb1 at telkomsa.net (Caleb Hattingh)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 21:58:56 -0500
Subject: Delphi underrated, IDE clues for Python
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.23.07.09.08.229463@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<zn18e7pm.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.24.07.36.24.700146@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<mailman.6746.1101289610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<vtadq05nljtb7hatf77t3lfvttkajlt2s6@4ax.com>
	<opsh3oj9ap1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
	<5c882bb5.0411270517.77ccc654@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <opsh5mkisz1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>

thx, I already have and use PythonForDelphi (and am on the mailing list).

It works very well indeed, my impression is that Python-Delphi connection  
is even easier than Python-C integration (e.g. via SWIG, etc), due once  
again to the Delphi IDE.  Drag-n-drop in the IDE gets you python code in  
your delphi code, or delphi units/objects accessible in python.

However, Delphi is not platform indpendent (which is important for me as I  
use a different OS at work and at home), and I don't know if  
PythonForDelphi supports Kylix.  I am fairly sure it doesn't support  
Lazarus, which IS platform independent, but not as feature-rich as Delphi.

Btw, on the SHOOTOUT page, you'll see that the Delphi rank for LOC is 28.   
This number is pretty meaningless in practice because the IDE does a lot  
of code generation for you.  More interesting would have been to see the  
rank for LOC you have to type yourself...

On 27 Nov 2004 05:17:38 -0800, bearophile <bearophileHUGS at lycos.com> wrote:

> Delphi is a very good language, and quite fast too:
> http://dada.perl.it/shootout/delphi.html
>
>
> Caleb Hattingh>STILL...Having a Delphi-like IDE for Python would make me  
> giddy.
>
> Maybe here you can find a way to use both at the same time:
> http://www.atug.com/andypatterns/pythonDelphiTalk.htm
> http://membres.lycos.fr/marat/delphi/python.htm
>
> Bearophile



From jean-louis.nespoulous at vatech-td.fr  Tue Nov 23 02:53:17 2004
From: jean-louis.nespoulous at vatech-td.fr (Jean-Louis Nespoulous)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 23:53:17 -0800
Subject: Help for a newbie in Python and ZODB
References: <39eca62c.0411212341.330dabdc@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.22.15.07.23.646763@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <39eca62c.0411222353.4ad4f2bc@posting.google.com>

Thanks, but I'll use ZODB as server and I'll get and retreive objet
from a distance client using XML-RPC, do you think it's possible
easily?
Jean-Louis

Thomas Guettler <guettli at thomas-guettler.de> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.11.22.15.07.23.646763 at thomas-guettler.de>...
> Am Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:41:39 -0800 schrieb Jean-Louis Nespoulous:
> 
> > Hello everybody,
> > I am in charge to develop a system who will analyse a network, type
> > Three-Tier Architecture. I would like to use ZODB or (exclusive)
> > PostgreSQL. But I don't know witch one to use?
>  
> > Someone could help me
> > and tell me what are the differencies between ZODB and PostgreSQL?
> 
> PostgreSQL is a relational database. You store data in tables which
> have columns and rows. You access it with SQL. PostgreSQL supports
> inheritance, but you still need some mapping between your objects and the
> database. You can access postgres with any programming language.
> 
> > My system will be developped in Java. If I use ZODB how I'll make the
> > transition with Python?
> 
> If you use Java, you can't use ZODB. 
> 
> ZODB stores pickled (serialized) objects.
> Here you don't need a mapping between objects and database.
> SQL makes no sense with ZODB. The query language is python.
> 
> HTH,
>  Thomas


From exarkun at divmod.com  Thu Nov  4 13:24:23 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 18:24:23 GMT
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
In-Reply-To: <loom.20041104T183457-271@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20041104182423.23443.953824555.divmod.quotient.1458@ohm>

On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:39:45 +0000 (UTC), Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
><exarkun <at> divmod.com> writes:
> >
> > Python 2.3 (#3, Jan 26 2004, 21:50:33)
> > [GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release)] on linux2
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> > >>> import intrinsics, become
> > >>> class phpstr(str):
> > ...     def __setitem__(self, index, value):
> > ...             become.memwrite(id(self) + 20 + index, str(value)[0])
> > ... 
> > >>> oldstr = intrinsics.replace(str, phpstr)
> > >>> foo = 'abc'
> > >>> foo[0] = 65
> > >>> foo
> > '6bc'
> 
> Oooh!  So dirty! ;)
> 
> I've never used the intrinsics module (and Googled, but apparently didn't search
> for the right thing), but does this do a global replace?  E.g. if my module
> imports some module that calls intrinsics.replace(str, phpstr), are all the uses
> of str in my module then replaced with phpstr's?
> 

  Yep, totally global.  If any code in a process calls replace(), every literal will be an instance of the new type.

  Also, the Python process will segfault at exit, and possibly other times.  This, together with your original comment ("So dirty! ;)") is why I've never bothered releasing the module :)  

  My website (which had a page about the module) has been done for a couple weeks, which may be why google has bumped it from search results.  Probably for the best, really ;)

  Jp


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 16 06:25:08 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:25:08 +0100
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<20041114200132.20649.1982992758.divmod.quotient.5222@ohm>
	<mailman.6390.1100553070.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbf8z.mirt8m687hvbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<du7mzxiruej.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <1gncejc.1pmb5x2rs2cojN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote:

> >>>>> "Alex" == Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>     Alex> where builtin 'adapt' does protocol adaptation.  On the
>     Alex> other hand, if the semantics of those 'as' clauses were
>     Alex> something like:
> 
>     Alex> def x(y, z):
>     Alex> if type(y) is not foo: raise TypeError, 'y must be foo'
>     Alex> if type(z) is not bar: raise TypeError, 'z must be bar'
>     Alex> <body of x>
> 
>     Alex> then that's the day I move to Ruby, or any other language
>     Alex> that remained halfway sensible (if any).
> 
> Even if it allowed portions of the code to be statically compiled to
> reach "native" performance? Or if it allowed resolving ambiguous
> situations in type inference? Type declarations would of course be
> optional, and they could be a big win esp. for non-cpython

My prediction is that, once 'of course optional' type declaration gets
in, it will become the mandated approach in most new-to-Python shops, by
fallacious analogy with (say) VB and Perl's "optional" type declaration,
and by dint of managers' general liking for putting silly unjustified
restriction on professionals to hamper their productivity.  That is
going to be a huge cost.  What will it buy in exchange?

If typenames in a type declaration context can be statically resolved at
compile-time, then so can just about every other use of names, right?
After all, if the compiler can statically resolve what object 'foo' is
bound to in a clause 'x as bar.foo', it means it must somehow have
inferred that some 'class foo' statement will inevitably get executed
before then in module bar, or whatever other attribute assignment
produces that binding of name 'foo' within name 'bar'.

And of course the 'foo' type will generally be built up in another
module, so we're talking about a compiler that examines other modules in
order to be able to compile this one.  Whole-program compilation with
compile-time inferred name-object bindings would be such a huge and
total revolution wrt today's Python that very little would stay the
same.  OK, then, if that's the revolution that's in Python's future,
let's see it come _first_ -- there would be huge wins without requiring
any source code changes _IF_ name-to-object resolution could be
uniformly done at compile-time rather than at runtime, even across
modules.  Though I've never seen any example of whole-program
compilation and optimization done right, in practice (with compile time
NOT growing faster than O(N) and soon becoming untenable for large
programs), I do know that _in theory_ it's feasible -- I'd just be
astonished if it was shown that Python, never having been designed for
it, "just happens" to be the right language to have it finally occur.


> implementations of the language. Beats reverting to C#/whatever for
> situations where you want good JITtability. In CPython "adaptation"
> might be the way to go, of course, but that would still enable the
> same code to run on different variants of Python.

If adaptation was a dialect-specific thing, it would hamper the ability
to move large frameworks and applications across dialects.

I don't see "falling back" to a lower-level language where you need one
as a disaster.  Doesn't have to be _AS_ low-level as C# or Java or C, of
course; I think pyrex does a great job of showing how a restricted
Python dialect/variant which, among other things, includes optional
declarations, can make your life much easier.  I don't see why there
couldn't be pyrex# or Jirex versions, or even languages inspired from
Python but farther from it than Pyrex is, such as Bobo.


>     Alex> syntax sugar;-) ends up being a way to ease *type-checking*,
>     Alex> then, well, I'll evaluate that as being on a par with easing
>     Alex> alcohol abuse.  What
> 
> I don't think people have been too keen to get static type checking
> into the language anyway. It might be an option in pychecker, but that
> should be enough. Dynamic type checking, well, that's an obvious net
> loss over adaptation.

I agree pychecker or the like might well have options to check on
everything under the sun -- no problem.  For reasons that escape me,
shop rules such as "all programs will pass lint with this and that
option" seem to never stick.  Shop rules such as "-Wall -pedantic on all
compilations and NEVER any commit of code with warnings" (a good idea,
actually) or "all VB programs must have option explicit" (maybe better
than nothing, given VB's typing mess, if you have to do VB) or "all perl
runs will always have -w" (probably a good idea), etc, etc, _are_
observed, in practice, to stick.  And there are good rules for Python,
too, of course, ones that promote productivity, from 'we do not ever use
"exec"' to similar edicts against 'from x import *'.  As long as control
freaks don't get an effective way to destroy Python's greatest strength,
namely signature-based polymorphism, I'm happy...


Alex


From i_hate at spams.biz  Tue Nov 30 09:07:43 2004
From: i_hate at spams.biz (i_hate at spams.biz)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:07:43 +0100
Subject: private attributes in __slots__ and pickle
Message-ID: <41ac7e5f$0$13412$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Hello,
I've just discovered the hard way that classes declaring private variables
(beginning with two underscore) can not be pickled ; double underscored
attributes are just not returned by __reduce__.

That's very annoying.

Objects should be serializable transparently so why such obstacles ?


From onurb at xiludom.gro  Thu Nov 11 14:08:33 2004
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:08:33 +0100
Subject: web hosting with Python
In-Reply-To: <3cccb1d8.0411101416.690960c3@posting.google.com>
References: <3cccb1d8.0411101416.690960c3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4193b6b1$0$9343$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

MJR a ?crit :
> Hi,
> anybody could recommend web hosting company which offer professional
> reseller package with Python, preferable located in Europe?

http://www.modulix.com

The Python part is not really advertised yet, but we do offer mod_python 
and Zope support.

You can contact me for more informations.
Bruno


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov  8 15:27:47 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 15:27:47 -0500
Subject: Determining combination of bits
References: <x3Qjd.121786$hj.41260@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <cmokrq$j42$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Sean Berry" <sean at buildingonline.com> wrote in message 
news:x3Qjd.121786$hj.41260 at fed1read07...
> and I am given some numbers, say 22, 25, and 9.  I want to determine the 
> keys, powers of 2, that comprise the number.
> How do I get these keys?

if n%2: print 'has a positive one bit'

n//2 == n>>1 deletes that bit

keep track of divisions/shifts and stop when n == 0

Terry J. Reedy





From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Tue Nov 30 09:15:31 2004
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:15:31 GMT
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.4 (final)
References: <mailman.6913.1101817983.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8sGdnQjN6qGu7THcRVn-3A@rcn.net>
Message-ID: <xqx3byrctj0.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

"Dave Merrill" <dmerrillq at usaq.netq> writes:

> Newb question: Is it possible/recommended  to have multiple versions of
> Python installed simultaneously? Earlier, I installed 2.4rc1, and a number
> of things in my 2.3.3 install stopped working. Are there known techniques
> for managing multiple versions?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dave Merrill
> 
> 

I can only speak for *NIX systems; don't know about MS Win** systems.
The quick answer is "Yes, it can be done".

1. Build and install as 
      make altinstall

This installs, e.g.:
      /usr/local/
          bin/
            python2.3
          lib/
            python2.3
          

It does NOT also make an entry at /usr/local/bin/python.  Thus any
scripts which call for "python" or "/usr/bin/env python" get the
default version.

2. Make a wrapper script, e.g. /usr/local/bin/py23:
      unset PYTHONHOME PYTHONPATH
      /usr/local/bin/python2.3 "$@"

3. Use "py23" to build site-packages.  Since you need to do this
repeatedly, it is best to save the build scripts on a python-version
basis.  E.g., a "go23" script.  Inside the scripts, use "py23" as
appropriate wherever you would have used "python".  e.g.:

      ....
      export PKGVER=Numeric-23.0
      ln -s ../${PKGVER}.tar.gz .
      gzip -cd  ${PKGVER}.tar.gz | gtar xvf -
      cd  ${PKGVER}

      py23 setup.py build
      py23 setup.py install
      cd ..
      ....

4. When another python version shows up, copy the go23 to go24, edit
it for py23-->py24, and start building.  Use either version at the
commmand line or in other scripts via py23 or py24.  NOTE: In cgi's,
give the full path, e.g.:

      #!/usr/local/bin/python2.3


-- 
Harry George
harry.g.george at boeing.com 6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
Phone: (425) 294-4718


From TheDolphin at ivonet.nl  Mon Nov  8 15:20:11 2004
From: TheDolphin at ivonet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 21:20:11 +0100
Subject: Escape chars in string
Message-ID: <418fd4fb$0$147$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Dear Pythoneers,

I have this app that I want to be able to present in more than 1 language.
To do this I use ConfigParser with an ini file.

My question:
when I 'get()' the message with ConfigParser the \t in the string is a
litteral and is not translated to a tab. Why is this so?
if I do tests with somthing like s = '&Quit\tAlt-Q' it does work.

What is the difference? and how can I get the desired behavior?

e.g.
[msg_quit]
uk = &Quit\tAlt-Q
nl = &Stoppen\tAlt-S


Hope y'all can help
Ivo.






From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Wed Nov  3 11:57:21 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 17:57:21 +0100
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <c718a6cf.0411011313.fc2969d@posting.google.com>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<c718a6cf.0411011313.fc2969d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2usgvoF1te0btU1@uni-berlin.de>

Y2KYZFR1 wrote:
> Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> wrote in message news:<2uh4j7F2a86uqU1 at uni-berlin.de>...
>> Hello,
>> 
>> another Perl/Python question: the subject says it all.
>> 
>> Perl is going to change dramatically to become a more powerful and
>> easier to (read|write) language.
>> 
>> Is Python taking a similar step (-> Python 3) some time in the near future?
>> 
>> Reinhold
> 
> nice troll bait . . .

Yes, I confess, the article was intendedly trolly. But I got interesting
views on the issue, and for that I want to thank you all.

> Python has always been the most READABLE and WRITABLE language, and
> will continue to be extremely MAINTANCE friendly.
> 
> Perl has always been a WRITE only, MAINTANCE nightmare language. For
> MANY reasons.
> Nothing in the Perl 6 docs leads me to believe that it will be any
> less cryptic and obfuscated and propeller head appealing than 5. More
> complicated if anything.

I read through the Apocalypses, etc., and my first thought was: Wow, so
many features! But afterwards I realized that this featurism combined
with Perl ideology MUST lead to a total confusion in programming.

Perl is neat as long as it does what you mean - it helps you in that,
but once the DWIMmyness is too dumb to realize what you want, you have a
double-hard time finding a solution.

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From firemoth at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 21:02:46 2004
From: firemoth at gmail.com (Timothy Fitz)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:02:46 -0500
Subject: Exponential Notation and integers
In-Reply-To: <cnjdj2$qeh$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
References: <mailman.6569.1100821388.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Du-dncB7_qqGqADcRVn-tg@speakeasy.net>
	<cnjdj2$qeh$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <972ec5bd041118180239011419@mail.gmail.com>

My comment is more of a linguistic complaint. The differences between
an integer (type int or long) and a float in practice are large,
shouldn't 1e100 be of an integer type, since it -is- an integer? The
default practice here of making it a float just seems wrong.

[Peter Hansen]
> Maybe something like this would help the OP:
> 
> >>> def number(x):
> ...    return int(float(x))
> ...
> >>> MYCONSTANT = number('1.344e3')
> >>> print MYCONSTANT
> 1344

Yes, this would work in some cases, but not where it matters. Floats
have a significant amount of error when you are talking about very
large numbers, which is the only time you would want integer
exponential literals anyway, examples of errors:

>>> long(1e100)
10000000000000000159028911097599180468360808563945281389781327557747838772170381060813469985856815104L
>>> 1e20 == 10 ** 20 + 8192
True
>>> long(1e23) == 10 ** 23
False

The worst part is that because python will implicitly convert between
floats and integers, this can all happen silently and come back and
bite you where you least expect it.


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Mon Nov 22 07:24:49 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:24:49 -0200
Subject: The Microsoft Platform Ahead by David Platt;
	thoughts about Python and Zope
In-Reply-To: <AQ5od.24563$6q2.12650@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
References: <AQ5od.24563$6q2.12650@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041122042455f1164a@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:16:48 GMT, John Benson
<jsbenson at bensonsystems.com> wrote:
> Hi, I've been reading the above-titled book and it looks like some major
> Python and Zope features have been cherry-picked for pushing down into .NET,
> like application memory management (Python interpreter), and prefabricated
> website user management (Zope).

<irony>
I would be concerned if Microsoft was pushing for patents on things
previously implemented by Python or Zope.
</irony>

> Will the open-source web service frameworks suffer the same fate as the
> Netscape browser?

Microsoft has show with the IE 6 fiasco that they have no long-term
commitment. As soon as they think that they have obliterated
competition they stop developing. And their customers are learning it
too. For many companies older versions, such as NT4 and Win98 are
still quite usable... but as MS discontinues support, it *forces* them
to upgrade. Worse: there are applications written for older frameworks
that simply will not be supported in the long term. It's why so many
people are concerned about XForms, Avalon and stuff -- they have
bought MS technology previously, and they will have to buy it again,
with all the upgrade cost, just to keep working. Not a good way to run
a business.
 
> The most likely scenario I see is that Python will remain important as a
> standalone language and one of the Microsoft CLR (Common Language Runtime)
> language alternatives (like VB.NET and C#) but that great frameworks (like
> Zope and Twisted) will be crowded out as Microsoft appropriates and
> repackages their functionality. Comments?

Perhaps I'm a little paranoid, but I am afraid that the CLR version of
Python may lead to a split of sorts in the long term. Jython is always
a little behind, but as far as I know, it still follows C Python
steps. The CLR is a *big* library, and it's backed by Microsoft, which
makes it quite attractive for a number of developers. I'm afraid that
its direct use may lead to a distinct 'dialect' of sorts (due to the
use of the CLR) than C Python with the standard Python library. The
language is the same, but the programs would hardly be portable (I
don't place my bets on Mono either). But again, I may be just paranoid
:-)

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Sat Nov 27 01:02:22 2004
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 06:02:22 GMT
Subject: win32 problem with WM_COPYDATA
References: <b8c06209.0411261548.46495280@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <OLUpd.49878$K7.14436@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Chris:

>         wc.lpszClassName = "QServer"
> ...
>             "QuoteServer App",
> ...
>     wnd = win32gui.FindWindow("QuoteServer", None)

   Using the same name helps.

> ...
>     buff = struct.pack('11s', "XXXXX: YYYY")
>     print win32gui.SendMessage(wnd, win32con.WM_COPYDATA, 0, buff)

   Copydata does not take an arbitrary pointer, it requires a correctly
initialized COPYDATASTRUCT. From a Mark Hammond post:

import struct, array
int_buffer = array.array("L", [0])
char_buffer = array.array("c", "the string data")
int_buffer_address = int_buffer.buffer_info()[0]
char_buffer_address, char_buffer_size = char_buffer.buffer_info
copy_struct = struct.pack("pLp",  # dword *, dword, char *
                           int_buffer_address,
                           char_buffer_size, char_buffer_address)
# find target_hwnd somehow.
win32gui.SendMessage(w, WM_COPYDATA, target_hwnd, copy_struct)

   Neil




From rambam at bigpond.net.au  Mon Nov  8 02:35:35 2004
From: rambam at bigpond.net.au (Israel Raj T)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 07:35:35 GMT
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au> <alGid.47522$HA.14125@attbi_s01>
	<cml9h2$q70$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<1gmw2us.eerwmfbnb899N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<roy-43B82D.13103807112004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <87vfcgkd3e.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:

> mention that I know what the program drum is used for on an 029 card 
> punch.  I am however typing this from my wireless PowerBook :-)

I hate to say this, but my kids have had 802.11g on their notebooks since
the age of 12 ( ie : nearly 2 years now). 


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  8 02:25:00 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 08:25:00 +0100
Subject: Floating point -> string conversions
References: <c0f3aa87.0411072002.7c42331e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gmxb89.r6ndtk17sltbgN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

John Fouhy <jfouhy at paradise.net.nz> wrote:
   ...
> Why do the string and default floating point representations get rounded?
> 
> (and is this documented anywhere?)

Sure, right in the "Tutorial (start here)" for example.
http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/tut/node16.html


Alex


From mesteve_bpleaseremovethis at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 15 21:36:39 2004
From: mesteve_bpleaseremovethis at hotmail.com (StvB)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 02:36:39 GMT
Subject: Redirecting system output quietly
References: <mailman.6395.1100563802.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <XIdmd.44547$QJ3.18327@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

cmdline = 'whatever command you want to run'
pipe = os.popen(cmdline + " 2>&1")
     for line in pipe.readlines():
            tempList.append(line)
        rc = pipe.close()
        if rc:
           ErrorResult = 1
        else:
           fg.ErrorResult = 0



"Eddie Parker" <eddie at replicon.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.6395.1100563802.5135.python-list at python.org...
> Look at the 'popen' modules.
>
> (I believe their under the os module).
>
> -e-
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-bounces+eddie=replicon.com at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-bounces+eddie=replicon.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
> Madhusudhanan Chandrasekaran
> Sent: November 15, 2004 5:03 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Redirecting system output quietly
>
> Hi,
>  I am a newbie here. I want to know how to redirect os.system("ls -af")
> to a string variable without it barfing the answer of ls -af on the
> screen.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Madhusudhanan.C
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 01/11/2004
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 01/11/2004
>
>
> 




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Nov 27 02:25:43 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 08:25:43 +0100
Subject: Number of colors in an image
References: <1075192482.20041126193704@geochemsource.com>
Message-ID: <co9a1e$lh1$1@sea.gmane.org>

Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:

> How can I determine the number of colors used in an image? I tried to
> search on Google but I could figure out. I read the PIL handbook but I
> do not see how to do it. Can anyone help?

PIL 1.1.5 has a "getcolors" method:

    http://effbot.org/zone/pil-image.htm#image-getcolors-method

    im.getcolors() => a list of (count, color) tuples or None

    im.getcolors(maxcolors) => a list of (count, color) tuples or None

    (New in 1.1.5) Returns an unsorted list of (count, color) tuples, where the
    count is the number of times the corresponding color occurs in the image.

    If the maxcolors value is exceeded, the method stops counting and returns
    None. The default maxcolors value is 256. To make sure you get all colors
    in an image, you can pass in size[0]*size[1] (but make sure you have lots
    of memory before you do that on huge images).

</F> 





From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 12:40:34 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:40:34 GMT
Subject: How to get an item from a simple set?
In-Reply-To: <ekijxjod.fsf@wgmail2.gatwick.eur.slb.com>
References: <mzx7xo74.fsf@wgmail2.gatwick.eur.slb.com>
	<mailman.6756.1101311220.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<is7vxlw5.fsf@wgmail2.gatwick.eur.slb.com>
	<YI2pd.455349$D%.179882@attbi_s51>
	<ekijxjod.fsf@wgmail2.gatwick.eur.slb.com>
Message-ID: <lI3pd.94168$5K2.20006@attbi_s03>

Pete Forman wrote:
> Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>I still tend to write the extra line in cases like this -- it
>>guarantees that the set is really the size that I think it is, where
>>the iter(s).next() solution will not raise an exception if the set
>>is actually larger.
> 
> 
> The preceding line in my code is
>   if len(s) == 1:
> 

So is this just one branch of a case statement?  What do you do in the 
case that len(s) != 1?  And which one happens more often?

If I have two possible unpackings of an iterable and I know one is much 
more common than the other, I often do something like:

try:
     x, y = s         # more common unpacking
except ValueError:
     [x], y = s, None # less common ('exceptional') unpacking

This is a reasonable pattern if your code really does favor one branch 
substantially over the other.  But dont' take my word for it. ;)  Here's 
what timeit says:

----- test.py ----
def test_cond(*args):
     if len(args) == 1:
         [x], y = args, None
     elif len(args) == 2:
         x, y = args
     else:
         raise ValueError('wrong number of arguments')

def test_try(*args):
     try:
         x, y = args
     except ValueError:
         [x], y = args, None

def test(fn, single_times, double_times):
     for _ in range(single_times):
         fn(1)
     for _ in range(double_times):
         fn(0, 1)


---- command prompt ----
 >python -m timeit -s "import test" "test.test(test.test_cond, 10, 10)"
10000 loops, best of 3: 26.7 usec per loop

 >python -m timeit -s "import test" "test.test(test.test_try, 10, 10)"
10000 loops, best of 3: 116 usec per loop

 >python -m timeit -s "import test" "test.test(test.test_cond, 1, 100)"
10000 loops, best of 3: 132 usec per loop

 >python -m timeit -s "import test" "test.test(test.test_try, 1, 100)"
10000 loops, best of 3: 99.8 usec per loop


As you can see, when the try/except block is slower when the two 
branches get traversed approximately equally, but faster when one branch 
is substantially favored over the other.

Steve


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Nov 18 23:41:41 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 20:41:41 -0800
Subject: Building a word list from multiple files
In-Reply-To: <c644fe86.0411182016.59e56f0@posting.google.com>
References: <c644fe86.0411172344.6d6356d9@posting.google.com>
	<3oqdnVtPVOyFMgHcRVn-rA@comcast.com>
	<c644fe86.0411182016.59e56f0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10pqu52ep6mn34a@corp.supernews.com>

Manu wrote:

>hi,
>  
>
>>1) How large are the files you are reading (e.g. can they
>>fit in memory)?
>>    
>>
>
>The files are email messages.
>I will using the the builtin email module to extract only the content
>type which is plain text or in html.So no line by line processing is
>possible unless
>i write my own parser for email.
>  
>

The email package can do that parsing for you -- it's not too difficult 
to feed it a raw message file and get back only the text and/or html 
payload.


>>If not, preprocess the files and use shelve to save a
>>dictionary that has already been processed.  When you
>>    
>>
>
>This is what i was planning to do.Once the processing is done for a
>set of files they are never processed again.I was going to store the
>dict as a string in a file and then use eval() to get it back.
>  
>

Use the shelve module instead of eval()ing it yourself -- the shelve 
authors have already done all of the hard work for you.  It'll act 
almost like a regular dictionary, but is extremely easy to save to disk 
and reload later.

This is why Python is called "batteries included".  :)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From jbperez808 at wahoo.com  Thu Nov 11 01:43:15 2004
From: jbperez808 at wahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:43:15 +0800
Subject: Tkinter and WCK (was Re: How come wxPython isn't in the standard
 library?)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2vgfe5F2m8raqU1@uni-berlin.de>

BJ?rn Lindqvist wrote:

> See: http://www.wxpython.org/quotes.php. especially:
> 
> "wxPython is the best and most mature cross-platform GUI toolkit,
> given a number of constraints. The only reason wxPython isn't the
> standard Python GUI toolkit is that Tkinter was there first." - Guido
> van Rossum

I think there's another reason not to standardize on
wxPython and it's that its API is not at all pythonic.
It reminds me too much of a C++ API.

Tkinter's is far easier to use and learn. (PyGtk would be
2nd while PyQt's API, in my experience is just as C++-like and
hard to understand as wxPython's)

Tkinter's two real cons are that:

a) it is [supposed to be] ugly (but see my replies below)
b) it is an additional layer and thus slow

For both a) and b), one big hope for improvement is that
Fredrik Lundh's Tkinter 3000 / Widget Construction Kit (WCK)
has been revived.  You can now do your own Tkinter widgets
in Python.  WCK's API has the traditional pythonic design
(lean, mean, easy to learn) typical of Fredrik Lundh's creations
(like ElementTree and ElementTidy).

WCK widgets might actually provide better performance
as you don't have the additional Tk layer to go through
(or less of it).  I also saw some work to allow Tk widgets
to be written in native Win32 over at effbot.org!

The fact that you can now easily do your own Tkinter widgets
using WCK also means that we might soon see a lot of WCK
widgets which are prettier than the Tk ones.   There are
already some samples over at effbot.org.



> Guess, that answers my question, but isn't "Tkinter was there first" a
> very bad answer? :) It is kinda ugly too, so I wonder why it can't be
> replaced? 

Tkinter is a lot less ugly today than it used to be because
Tk has adopted a more native look (i'm talking about windows
here, dunno about other platforms).  You can actually turn
off that non-standard tear-off menu widget (which I believe
is responsible for as much as 80% of the Tkinter is ugliy
comments) easily too.

Without that tear-off menu disabled, I bet you won't be
able to tell that a modern Tkinter app from a native Win32
one.


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Nov  8 15:44:07 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 14:44:07 -0600
Subject: Escape chars in string
In-Reply-To: <418fd4fb$0$147$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
References: <418fd4fb$0$147$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <20041108204406.GB3567@unpythonic.net>

Python 2.3 has a 'string-escape' codec.  If you have a string like '\\t'
(a literal backslash followed by a t) and want to turn it into the
string '\t' (a tab character), you can use it for that purpose:
    >>> r"a\tb".decode("string-escape")
    'a\tb'

Jeff
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From user at host.invalid  Sun Nov 28 12:16:40 2004
From: user at host.invalid (Heikki Orsila)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 17:16:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [ANN] rpncalc-1.0 RPN Calculator For Python
References: <mailman.6851.1101655836.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>
	<41a9fd4e$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <cod15o$lo5$1@news.cc.tut.fi>

Kent Johnson <kent3737 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> The .tar.gz file seems to be corrupt, opening it with WinZip it 
> uncompresses the .gz then I get "Error reading header after processing 0 
> entries."

Bug in winzip? tar xfz rpncalc-1.0.tar.gz works just fine. However, there's
an invalid symlink inside the package:

$ tar tvfz rpncalc-1.0.tar.gz 
...
lrwxrwxrwx rlb/rlb           0 2004-11-22 00:11:06 rpncalc-1.0/examples/poly.py -> /data/projects/poly/poly.py

$ md5sum rpncalc-1.0.tar.gz 
0b8eb872fb0937eca079489e184ddf9f  rpncalc-1.0.tar.gz

Is your packet valid? Check the md5sum.

-- 
Heikki Orsila			Barbie's law:
heikki.orsila at iki.fi		"Math is hard, let's go shopping!"
http://www.modeemi.fi/~shd


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov  8 14:35:08 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 20:35:08 +0100
Subject: Comparing two minidom objects
References: <727daa7e.0411081033.276d5eba@posting.google.com>
	<cmohdq$j1l$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cmohp7$j1l$02$3@news.t-online.com>

>              res = res and tree_eq(ac, bc)

The aggregation is actually not necessary, as we shourtcircuit the and'ing
of the node comparisions.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From jgoerzen at complete.org  Fri Nov 12 16:29:58 2004
From: jgoerzen at complete.org (John Goerzen)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 21:29:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Seeking a good home for OfflineIMAP
Message-ID: <slrncpaaqm.7vt.jgoerzen@christoph.complete.org>

Hi,

I'm the author of OfflineIMAP[1], a bidirectional IMAP synchronization
tool.  Its job is to let you read IMAP mail with any mail reader that
can understand a Maildir, and to keep your mail readers in sync on all
your different computers.

Here's the problem.  I consider OfflineIMAP basically finished.  It does
more than I ever expected out of it, and I haven't lost any mail from in
its entire lifespan.

I've done a poor job lately of tracking down bugs that people have
submitted and generally of maintaining the code.  Part of that is
because I don't have time.  Part is, I admit, that the problems are just
not interesting to me, since OfflineIMAP works fine for me already.

I know a lot of people find OfflineIMAP useful, and I feel that I'm
letting people down sometimes.

So I am asking here for somebody (or beter, several people) that would
like to take over development and maintenance on OfflineIMAP.  If you
don't want that, maybe you could at least handle bug reports and send me
diffs.  I'm content still making releases, or else pretty much ending my
involvement.  I could put my Subversion repository back up again, and
you could hack on that with me, or you could just take it over to *forge
and go your own way.  Whatever you prefer.  I'm happy to continue
hosting the mailing list and answer the "wtf did you do there"
questions.

OfflineIMAP is pure Python, highly modular, and (I think) easy to work
with.  With one exception: the IMAP communication code.  And that is
because it has to use imaplib, which doesn't lend itself very well to,
erm, clean code :-)

If you're interested, I'd encourage you to sign up[2] for the
offlineimap list and post there, so we can get started right away.

Thanks,
John

[1] http://quux.org/devel/offlineimap
[2] Send "subscribe" to offlineimap DASH request aT complete dOt org



From ndbecker2 at verizon.net  Wed Nov  3 18:47:35 2004
From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal Becker)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:47:35 -0500
Subject: ANN: New configuration module released
References: <2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5873.1099513574.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418956E9.8000600@red-dove.com>
Message-ID: <cmbqmn$9gc$1@sea.gmane.org>

Vinay Sajip wrote:

> Neal D. Becker wrote:
>> Looks good so far.
>> 
>> The boost c++ library (about to be released) has a new program_options
>> parser.  One feature I appreciate in the design, is that the source of
>> options is seperated from the rest of the design.  This means that, out
>> of the box, it reads options from command line, from config files, and
>> from
>> env variables.  Probably not hard to extend if anyone could think of a
>> reason.
>> 
>> I believe a decent config module should at least handle both config files
>> and command line options.  ENV variables are a nice touch too.
>> 
> 
> Python already has the optparse module for command-line options, and
> it's pretty good. I'll be looking at ways in which access to
> command-line options parsed via optparse can be made available through
> the config API, without duplication of code.
> 

The point is, you would like to specify the options once, and use this
single specification for all option sources - instead of redundantly having
to specify that there is a 'verbosity' option that takes a value of 'int'
and has a default of 'whatever', and do this once (and with different
syntax) for each source - config files, command line, etc.




From terti at mighty.co.za  Mon Nov 15 15:52:42 2004
From: terti at mighty.co.za (tertius)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 22:52:42 +0200
Subject: round() to nearest .05 ?
Message-ID: <i7KdnYIX-5yQigTcRVn-gg@is.co.za>

Hi,

I'm trying to round my float total to the nearest .05 cents.

12.01    should produce 12.00
  0.14    should produce 0.10
  2.28          "        2.25
703.81         "        703.80

"%.02f"%100.0099 produces 100.01 (which I know is right)
No combination of round and/or "%.02f" works for me.

What's the best way to get there? Should I write a function to manage my 
rounding or is there a simpler/better way?

TIA
T


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Nov 23 04:47:45 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 09:47:45 GMT
Subject: [Beginner] delete items of [] also from memory
References: <cns50t$5ip$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<72c8d50d.0411220933.203ca8f0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns95AA6394FC4E8duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Peter wrote:

> "Birgit Rahm" <br_y at yahoo.de> wrote in message
> news:<cns50t$5ip$05$1 at news.t-online.com>... 
>> Hello newsgroup,
>> 
>> I am a beginner, so I am asking maybe immoderate questions.
>> I want to delete a [] variable, after filling it with complex
>> objects. How should I do it?
>> e.g.
>> AAA = []
>> AAA = [B, C, D, E, F]
>> Can I
>> 1) AAA = []
>> 2) del AAA[0:]
>> 3) ?
>> whats about the computers memory, will it get free? Or will it get
>> more and more while Python is running?
> 
> I too am a novice, so am prepared to be corrected if this is wrong.
> 
> I don't think you need to worry - Python handles memory allocation
> automatically.  Names are not specifically allocated to memory, and
> when the last reference to a name is deleted all the associated memory
> is freed.

It depends on what the original poster meant by 'complex' objects.

Objects with circular references may not be freed until the garbage 
collector kicks in, and objects with circular references and a __del__ 
method may not be freed at all. However, provided you avoid writing __del__ 
methods on such objects, the memory may not be freed immediately but it 
will be freed eventually.

Objects which are not involved in any cyclic references will be freed, as 
you say, as soon as the last reference goes.

('Freed' in this context means released for reuse by Python --- don't ever 
expect the process to release memory back to the rest of the system.)



From heikowu at ceosg.de  Sat Nov  6 05:39:18 2004
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 11:39:18 +0100
Subject: Add a file to a compressed tarfile
In-Reply-To: <20041105101135.F83C.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <pan.2004.11.05.13.52.18.538666@hotmail.com>
	<cmg85n$qg2$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
	<20041105101135.F83C.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <200411061139.18926.heikowu@ceosg.de>

Am Freitag, 5. November 2004 19:19 schrieb Josiah Carlson:
> I am not aware of any such method.  I am fairly certain gzip (and the
> associated zlib) does the following:
>
> while bytes remaining:
>     reset/initialize state
>     while state is not crappy and bytes remaining:
>         compress portion of remaining bytes
>         update state
>
> Even if one could discover the last reset/initialization of state, one
> would still need to decompress the data from then on in order to
> discover the two empty blocks.

This is not entirely true... There is a full flush which is done every n bytes 
(n > 100000 bytes, IIRC), and can also be forced by the programmer. In case 
you do a full flush, the block which you read is complete as is up till the 
point you did the flush.

From the documentation:

"""flush([mode])

All pending input is processed, and a string containing the remaining 
compressed output is returned. mode can be selected from the constants 
Z_SYNC_FLUSH, Z_FULL_FLUSH, or Z_FINISH, defaulting to Z_FINISH. Z_SYNC_FLUSH 
and Z_FULL_FLUSH allow compressing further strings of data and are used to 
allow partial error recovery on decompression, while Z_FINISH finishes the 
compressed stream and prevents compressing any more data. After calling 
flush() with mode set to Z_FINISH, the compress() method cannot be called 
again; the only realistic action is to delete the object."""

Anyway, the state is reset to the initial state after the full flush, so that 
the next block of data is independent from the block that was flushed. So, 
you might start writing after the full flush, but you'd have to make sure 
that the compressed stream was of the same format specification as the one 
previously written (see the compression level parameter of 
compress/decompress), and you'd also have to make sure that the gzip header 
is supressed, and that the FINISH compression block correctly reflects the 
data that was appended (because you basically overwrite the finish block of 
the first compress).

Little example:

>>> import zlib
>>> x = zlib.compressobj(6)
>>> x
<zlib.Compress object at 0xb7e39de0>
>>> a = x.compress("hahahahahaha"*20)
>>> a += x.flush(zlib.Z_FULL_FLUSH)
>>> a
'x\x9c\xcaH\xcc\x18Q\x10\x00\x00\x00\xff\xff'
>>> b = x.flush(zlib.Z_FINISH)
>>> b
'\x03\x00^\x84^9'
>>> x = zlib.compressobj(6) # New compression object with same compression.
>>> c = x.compress("hahahahahaha"*20)
>>> c += x.flush(zlib.Z_FULL_FLUSH)
>>> c
'x\x9c\xcaH\xcc\x18Q\x10\x00\x00\x00\xff\xff'
>>> d = x.flush(zlib.Z_FINISH)
>>> d
'\x03\x00^\x84^9'
>>> e = a+c[2:] # Strip header of second block.
>>> x = zlib.decompressobj()
>>> f = x.decompress(e)
>>> len(f)
480 # Two times 240 = 480.
>>> f
'haha...' # Rest stripped for clarity.

So, as far as this goes, it works. But:

>>> x = zlib.decompressobj()
>>> e = a+c[2:]+d
>>> f = x.decompress(e)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
zlib.error: Error -3 while decompressing: incorrect data check

You see here that if you append the new end of stream marker of the second 
block (which is written by x.flush(zlib.Z_FINISH)), the data checksum is 
broken, as the data checksum is always written for the entire data, but 
leaving out the end of stream marker doesn't cause data-decompression to 
fail.

I know too little about the internal format of a gzip file (which appends more 
header data, but otherwise is just a zlib compressed stream) to tell whether 
an approach such as this one would also work on gzip-files, but I presume it 
should.

Hope this little explanation helps!

Heiko.


From pythongnome at hotmail.com  Sun Nov 21 08:47:53 2004
From: pythongnome at hotmail.com (Lucas Raab)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:47:53 GMT
Subject: instant messenging
In-Reply-To: <2004112016211983792%craig@yumaca>
References: <s9und.4018$Qh3.1971@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<2004112016211983792%craig@yumaca>
Message-ID: <d01od.8535$Qh3.3891@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>

craig wrote:
> On 2004-11-19 15:08:24 -0700, Lucas Raab <pythongnome at hotmail.com> said:
> 
>> Are there any instant messenging programs out there for use in a 
>> Python app?? I've heard of Jabber, but never looke into it.
> 
> 
> There are other instant messaging platforms, besides jabber.  I use 
> AIM(AOL Instant Messenger) quite a bit, and here is a python 
> implementation: http://www.jamwt.com/Py-TOC/
> 
> I use it as a BOT, I can share my code if you care.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> -Craig
> 

Thank you. Please do.


From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Wed Nov 24 13:38:20 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 18:38:20 GMT
Subject: teaching OO
References: <slrncq8inq.9gv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<WU0pd.19552$ld2.4789270@twister.nyc.rr.com>
	<mailman.6757.1101313279.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncq9l8s.npu.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>

>            Just out of interest, did the students get confused between 
>  polymorphism acheived through duck-typing and polymorphism acheived 

i haven't gotten so far yet.
and this semester, i won't do everything in parallel.

But I can say that it is very convincing to explain dynamic typing vs.
static typing, and weakly typed vs. stringly typed by contrasting how
things work in python vs how they work in c++.

>  way to perform structured education (my teacher friends remind me of 

hm, i'm not an educated teacher, just an assistant professor --
could you please explain to me what "structured education" means? ;-)

Cheers,
Gab.

-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| There are works which wait,                                             |
| and which one does not understand for a long time; [...]                |
| for the question often arrives a terribly long time after the answer.   |
|                                                         (Oscar Wilde)   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Thu Nov 18 17:19:52 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:19:52 GMT
Subject: TPG error when using 't' as the first letter of a token
References: <mailman.6536.1100768465.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ce9nd.9212$g21.3437@fe1.texas.rr.com>

"Andrew James" <drew at gremlinhosting.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.6536.1100768465.5135.python-list at python.org...
> Gentlemen,
>
> I'm running into a problem whilst testing the parsing of a language I've
> created with TPG . It seems that for some reason, TPG balks when I try
> to parse an expression whose first letter is 't' (or, in fact, at any
> time when 't' is at the beginning of a token). This doesn't happen with
> any other letter (as far as I know), nor if the 'T' is capitalised.
>
> My grammar looks like this:
>
>     # Tokens
>     separator space '\s+';
>     token Num '\d+(.\d+)?';
>     token Ident '[a-zA-Z]\w*';
>     token CharList '\'.*\'';
>     token CatUnOp '~';
>     token CatOp '[/\^~]';
>     token MetaOp '[=\+\-!]';
>     token Date '\d\d-\d\d-\d\d\d\d';
>     token FileID '(\w+\.\w+)'
>     ;
>     # Rules
>     START -> CatExpr '\?' '[' MetaExpr ']'
>     | CatExpr
>     | FileID
>     ;
>     CatExpr -> CatUnOp CatName
>     | CatName (CatOp CatName)*
>     | CatName
>     ;
>     CatName -> Ident
>     #| '(' CatExpr ')'
>     ;
>     MetaExpr -> MetaCrit (',' MetaCrit)*
>     ;
>     MetaCrit -> Ident MetaOp Value
>     ;
>     Value -> CharList | Num | Date
>     ;
>
> My test script like this:
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     """ For testing purposes only """
>     parseTests = ('This/is/a/simple/test', 'another/simple/test',
> "a/test/with/[author='drew']")
>     for line in parseTests:
>         try:
>             print "\nParsing: %s \n%s\n" % (line,"="*(len(line)+9))
>             qp = MFQueryParser()
>             print qp(line)
>         except Exception, inst:
>                 print "EXCEPTION: " + str(inst)
>
> <snip>
FYI, as a comparative data point, here is your parser implemented using
pyparsing.  I had to change your last test case because it didn't seem to
match your grammar.

-- Paul
(Download pyparsing at http://pyparsing.sourceforge.net.)

from pyparsing import alphas, nums, alphanums, Word, Optional, oneOf, Group,
\
      Literal, Combine, sglQuotedString, Forward, delimitedList, ZeroOrMore,
OneOrMore

integer = Word(nums)
num = Combine(integer + Optional("." + integer))
identChars = alphanums + "_$"
ident = Word(alphas, identChars)
charList = sglQuotedString
unop = Literal("~")
binop = oneOf("/ ^ ~")
metaOp = oneOf("= + - !")
date = Combine( Word(nums,exact=2) + "-" + Word(nums,exact=2) + "-" +
Word(nums,exact=4) )
fileId = Combine( Word(identChars) + "." + Word(identChars) )

value = charList | date | num
metaCrit = ident + metaOp + value
metaExpr = Group(delimitedList( metaCrit ))
expr = Forward()
name = ident | Group( "(" + expr + ")" )
expr << Group( ( unop + name ) | ( name + ZeroOrMore(binop + name) ) )

start = Group( expr + "?" + "[" + metaExpr + "]" ) | expr | fileId

parseTests = (
    'This/is/a/simple/test',
    'tanother/simple/test',
    "a/test/with?[author='drew']"
    )
for t in parseTests:
    print start.parseString(t)

Output:
=====
[['This', '/', 'is', '/', 'a', '/', 'simple', '/', 'test']]
[['tanother', '/', 'simple', '/', 'test']]
[[['a', '/', 'test', '/', 'with'], '?', '[', ['author', '=', "'drew'"],
']']]




From gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com  Wed Nov 10 14:31:32 2004
From: gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com (Gabriel Cooper)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:31:32 -0500
Subject: Concise idiom to initialize dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <4191E3FA.5070607@romulo.de>
References: <89D59C407D04D54AA82DC8BA312D430D10C6175C@enyc11p32001.corpny.csfb.com>
	<4191E3FA.5070607@romulo.de>
Message-ID: <41926C94.3060006@mediapulse.com>



Rainer Mansfeld wrote:

> Being a C/C++ programmer with only a couple of weeks of Python
> experience, I'd simply do:
>
> a = b = c = d = e = f = g = h = i = j = k = l = {}
>
> That's clear and compact, but is it 'pythonic'?

That notation would make each variable a reference to the same dictionary:

 >>> a = b = c = d = {}
 >>> a['test'] = 1
 >>> b
{'test': 1}
 >>>




From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Mon Nov 29 01:49:36 2004
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 06:49:36 GMT
Subject: Decimal printing without the exponent
References: <%0oqd.478158$D%.433430@attbi_s51>
Message-ID: <4Ezqd.1390$_C2.401@trndny01>


"Bryan" <belred1 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%0oqd.478158$D%.433430 at attbi_s51...
> is there a way to make the Decimal class not print the exponent version of the
> decimal?
>
>
>  >>> str(Decimal('1010'))
> '1010'
>  >>> str(Decimal((0, (1, 0, 1), 1)))
> '1.01E+3'
>  >>>
>
> how do you make the 2nd example print 1010?


The quantize method will convert to any desired exponent (zero in your example):

>>> d = (Decimal((0, (1, 0, 1), 1)))
>>> d
Decimal("1.01E+3")
>>> d.quantize(Decimal(1))
Decimal("1010")



Raymond Hettinger




From rcs333 at online.no  Fri Nov 26 22:19:44 2004
From: rcs333 at online.no (RCS)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 04:19:44 +0100
Subject: Protecting Python source
In-Reply-To: <f4a45085.0411260701.5859bf43@posting.google.com>
References: <f4a45085.0411260701.5859bf43@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <lnSpd.18976$Km6.232360@news4.e.nsc.no>

Alan Sheehan wrote:

> Hi pythonistas,
> 
> I am looking for methods of deploying applications with end users so
> that the python code is tamper proof. What are my options ?

An interesting question is, what makes your source code so innovative as 
to mandate this tamper proof thing?

Just wondering.

QXX






From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Nov 19 20:25:45 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:25:45 -0800
Subject: generic object - moving toward PEP
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3245261@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Steven Bethard wrote:
> This doesn't really have anything to do with the proposal.  We're not 
> suggesting a named-tuple here (though see a recent (current?) thread 
> that is).  The 'bunch' class, or whatever you want to call it, is 
> intended to support dotted-attribute access, in contrast to dict's 
> sequential [] access.

Oops. Got my threads mixed up. Sorry.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Sun Nov  7 00:46:35 2004
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 21:46:35 -0800
Subject: Python for Reverse Engineering
In-Reply-To: <418C54E9.2000409@vt.edu>
References: <cmhdi4$7vi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<418c50ad$1_3@omega.dimensional.com> <418C54E9.2000409@vt.edu>
Message-ID: <200411062146.35968.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>


> > Care to post the 100 strings so others can have a look?
>
> I'd rather not do that.

If your friend was worth his salt as an algorithm writer, he'd be more than 
willing to let you post a mere 100 strings. For any good generator, this 
would be paltry compared to the number of strings it would take to figure out 
the algorithm.

But--he is probably making impossible claims here, anyway...

> Reading about cryptanalysis might prove fruitful.

Perhaps your friend should pay heed to this as well.


James

-- 
James Stroud, Ph.D.
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
611 Charles E. Young Dr. S.
MBI 205, UCLA 951570
Los Angeles CA 90095-1570
http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Thu Nov 11 14:16:46 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (Premshree Pillai)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:16:46 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Beginner's scoping question
In-Reply-To: <4ef0f3a4.0411101240.21132006@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041111191646.99526.qmail@web8507.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Alan Little <contact at alanlittle.org> wrote: 
> a=1
> b=[]
> class C():
>    def __init__(self):
>       a=2
>       b.append(3)
> 
> c = C()
> 
> print b
> # [3]
> 
> # but ...
> print a
> # 1
> 
> ???
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>  

You probably already got your answer. Just wanted to
point out that --

class C():

-- is incorrect. Should be

class C:

:-)

--Premshree

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partner online
Go to: http://yahoo.shaadi.com/india-matrimony


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 17 06:22:25 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:22:25 GMT
Subject: eval syntax problem
References: <86pt2c3lgx.fsf@mut.mteege.de>
Message-ID: <419b3150.282995165@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:53:12 +0100, Matthias Teege <matthias-dated at mteege.de> wrote:

>
>Moin,
>
>what is wrong with
>
>eval('print %s %s %s' % ('%s', '%', 'foo'))
print is a statement, which eval does not like. Use exec for statements,
but it is usually a sign that you haven't yet learned a better way of
doing something if you are a newbie and resorting to eval or exec ;-)

>
>I try to pass a format string to an assignment. Like this
>
>fmt='%.2f'
>a=1
>b="fmt %" % a

 >>> fmt = '%.2f'
 >>> a=1
 >>> b="fmt %" % a
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 ValueError: incomplete format

Did you not understand that message?
It means that "fmt %" is missing something, which makes it incomplete ;-)
If you look in docs, you can find how to make formats. The one in fmt is ok.
So what you want to do is use that in a normal format % stuff_to_format expression:

 >>> b=fmt % a
 >>> a
 1
 >>> b
 '1.00'

You could complete the format in the error, and try again.
(interactively, you can just type the expression without assigning its value,
that way the interepreter will show a string representation of the result (unless
it's None, in which case it doesn't print anything).

 >>> "fmt %" % a
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 ValueError: incomplete format
 >>> "fmt %s" % a
 'fmt 1'
 >>>

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From speno at net.isc.upenn.edu  Fri Nov  5 17:20:32 2004
From: speno at net.isc.upenn.edu (John P. Speno)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 22:20:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Simple thread pools
References: <mailman.5910.1099581710.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmgubg$875l$1@netnews.upenn.edu>

In <mailman.5910.1099581710.5135.python-list at python.org> Jacob Friis <lists at debpro.webcom.dk> writes:

>I have built a script inspired by a post on Speno's Pythonic Avocado:
>http://www.pycs.net/users/0000231/weblog/2004/01/04.html#P10

>I'm setting NUM_FEEDERS to 1000.
>Is that crazy?
>Are there a better solution?

I'm flattered, but I suggest you avoid using Threads and instead consider
what serveral others have already mentioned: Twisted.

You can find more info here:

    http://twistedmatrix.com

If my memory serves me right (IMMSMR?), a user on the Twisted Python
mailing list posted not too long ago (today?) about coding an RSS
aggregator using Twisted. Hey, that user was you! :-)

Going farther back, on March 31, Valentino Volonghi posted about his RSS
code too.
    http://twistedmatrix.com/pipermail/twisted-python/2004-March/007390.html

Take care.


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov 18 22:40:30 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 03:40:30 GMT
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
	number of output arguments)
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de> <419bbf2a.319309032@news.oz.net>
	<10ppt1bt5q38d0d@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <419d6a2b.428622776@news.oz.net>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 11:16:31 -0800, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:

>Bengt Richter wrote:
>
>>Maybe keyword unpacking could spell that with a '**' assignment target,
>>e.g.,
>>
>>    ** = foo()  # update local bindings with all legal-name bindings in returned dict
>>  
>>
>
>I would *not* like to see this.  ISTM that, when reading a function, I 
>should be able to see where every name in that function came from.  
>Having global values appear from outside of the function is bad enough; 
>introducing a new way to magically create variables whose names I can't
                                    ^^^^^^
Not create, just rebind existing locals. 
>see would be (IMO) very, very bad.

All things in moderation. But I agree that you would have to know and trust foo ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Fri Nov  5 11:40:01 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 16:40:01 GMT
Subject: Usage statistics?
Message-ID: <slrnconb6t.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>

For some reason, I would like to have some statistics about how often
Python is used in the *scientific* communities (such as astronomy,
genetics, electrical engineering, ...), as opposed to C++ or Java
or other "common" programming languages.

I know about TIOBE's Programming Community Index, and Francois Labelle's
statistics from sourceforge.

Any pointers or insights will be highly appreciated

Best regards,
Gabriel.

-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| There are works which wait,                                             |
| and which one does not understand for a long time; [...]                |
| for the question often arrives a terribly long time after the answer.   |
|                                                         (Oscar Wilde)   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Tue Nov  2 16:32:55 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 21:32:55 GMT
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<4187aafe$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<slrncofp1m.dvf.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5839.1099426546.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncofv86.dvf.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>

>  (1) Weakly-typed languages allow you to take a block of memory that was
>  originally defined as one type and reinterpret the bits of this block as another
>  type[1]. (This is the definition usually used in Programming Languages
>  literature.)

So, according to that, Perl is strongly typed?

Thanks a lot in advance,
Gabriel.

-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| There are works which wait,                                             |
| and which one does not understand for a long time; [...]                |
| for the question often arrives a terribly long time after the answer.   |
|                                                         (Oscar Wilde)   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From DesertLinux at netscape.net  Wed Nov 17 10:37:42 2004
From: DesertLinux at netscape.net (Byron)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:37:42 GMT
Subject: Newbie:  Python & ADFGVX Cipher Cracking?
In-Reply-To: <cnfoj7$fpq$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
References: <4mJmd.1242$Tq6.565@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cnfoj7$fpq$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <afKmd.1293$Tq6.1253@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Hi Andreas,

That works GREAT!!  Thanks for the help...  It is appreciated!

Byron
---



Andreas Lobinger wrote:
> Aloha,
> 
> Byron wrote:
> 
>> I am working on building a program that cracks "ADFGVX" ciphers. 
>> However, I have run into a minor problem, which has to do with 
>> figuring out all of the possible character re-arrangement 
>> combinations.  sible ways:
> 
> 
>> Is there a python function in which I can sent a string of characters 
>> to -- and it will provide me with a list of all possible combinations 
>> available?
> 
> 
> I thought i had encountered something like that in random or so, but
> in fact a working solution is used as an _example_ in refman 2.1.8.
> 
> def perm(l):
>         # Compute the list of all permutations of l
>     if len(l) <= 1:
>                   return [l]
>     r = []
>     for i in range(len(l)):
>              s = l[:i] + l[i+1:]
>              p = perm(s)
>              for x in p:
>               r.append(l[i:i+1] + x)
>     return r
> 
> lobinger at biscuit: python
> Python 2.2.2 (#3, Apr 10 2003, 17:06:52)
> [GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on sunos5
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>  >>> import perm
>  >>> perm.perm('ABC')
> ['ABC', 'ACB', 'BAC', 'BCA', 'CAB', 'CBA']
>  >>>
> 
> Wishing a happy day
>         LOBI


From tjordah at start.no  Thu Nov 25 09:14:54 2004
From: tjordah at start.no (Lars Moastuen)
Date: 25 Nov 2004 06:14:54 -0800
Subject: Extending classes written in C++ using SWIG
Message-ID: <99efe53b.0411250614.1f0c0e3c@posting.google.com>

Im trying to extend a class written in C++ in Python and use this
extended class in a C++ call... I made an example to clarify:

-- Foo.h --
#ifndef FOO_H
#define FOO_H

#include <iostream>
using namespace std;

class Foo;
class Bar;

class Bar
{
public:
	Bar() {};
	~Bar() {};
	virtual char* DoBar() const { return "Bar"; };
};

class Foo
{
public:
	Foo() {};
	~Foo() {};
	virtual void DoFoo(Bar* someBar) { cout << someBar->DoBar() << endl;
};
};

#endif

-- Foo.cpp --
#include "Foo.h"

-- swig.i --
%module test
%{
#include "Foo.h"
%}

%include "Foo.h"

-- UseFoo.py --
#!/usr/bin/env python

from test import *;

class ExtendedBar(Bar):
	def __init__(self):
		Bar.__init__(self);
	
	def DoBar(self):
		return "ExtendedBar";

bar = ExtendedBar();
foo = Foo();
foo.DoFoo(bar);

------------

I now expect to get "ExtendedBar" as output from UseFoo.py (since I've
declared DoBar() as virtual, but I get "Bar".... I'm using SWIG 1.3.1
to create the bindings from Python to C++. (swig -python -c++)

Can anyone tell me why? Is there a way to remedy this??

Thx,
Lars Moastuen


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Tue Nov 16 03:13:17 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 08:13:17 GMT
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
References: <mailman.6380.1100532166.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncpjdjo.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-11-15, Jp Calderone schreef <exarkun at divmod.com>:
> On 15 Nov 2004 11:44:31 GMT, Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote:
>>Op 2004-11-15, Peter Hansen schreef <peter at engcorp.com>:
>> > Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> >> AFAIU the Queue module doesn't block on a full/empty queue when
>> >> a timeout is specified but goes in a loop sleeping and periodically
>> >> checking whether place/items are available. With signals that
>> >> can be sent to a thread the queue could just set an alarm and
>> >> then block as if no timeout value was set and either unblock
>> >> when place/items are available or get signalled when the timeout
>> >> period is over.
>> >
>> > I'm fairly sure that the Queue uses an internal Event
>> > (or REvent?) to signal when space or a new item is
>> > available, so I believe your description (and possibly
>> > conclusion) above is wrong.  There should be no
>> > "periodical check", as that would imply polling.  Check
>> > the source if you're interested.
>> 
>> I did check the source, I just didn't study it carefully
>> and got my understanding mostly from the comments.
>> But anyway here is the relevant part and IMO we have
>> a polling loop here.
>> 
>
>   You are correct, but why does it matter?  The Queue class works.

Does it?

I'm not so sure. If two consumers ask simultaneously for an element
from the same empty queue. One consumer simply blocking and the
other using a timeout, I think that if an element is produced within
the timeout period the chance for the element going to either consumer
should be equal. I doubr very much we have that in the current
situation.

> Why should Python be changed in a difficult and complex way to...

It doesn't change python, it changes an implementation. Sometimes
difficult and complex implementation do a better job than easier
implementations. That we already have an implementation that works
is therefore not a strong argument against an other implementation.

> make the Queue class continue to work?  If you can give other examples
> of the uses you have in mind, that might help convince people of the
> value of this change.  But be sure you give examples of things that don't already work.

Well how about the following code, it works in the main thread, but
doesn't in a normal thread according to the documentation:

  class SystemAlarm(Exception):
    pass


  def ringalarm(signum, frame):

    raise SystemAlarm


  signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, ringalarm)


  def lock(fl):

    ''' lock a file. If the parameter is a string, first
	open it. If the lock couldn't be aquired in five
	minutes, raise an exception.
    '''

    if isinstance(fl, type('')):
      fd = os.open(fl, os.O_RDWR | os.O_CREAT , 0700)
      fl = os.fdopen(fd, 'r+')
    signal.alarm(300)
    try:
      fcntl.flock(fl, fcntl.LOCK_EX)
      signal.alarm(0)
    except SystemAlarm:
      raise IOError("Couldn't aquire lock;")
    except:
      signal.alarm(0)
      raise

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From lbates at syscononline.com  Thu Nov 18 09:18:12 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 08:18:12 -0600
Subject: Building a word list from multiple files
In-Reply-To: <c644fe86.0411172344.6d6356d9@posting.google.com>
References: <c644fe86.0411172344.6d6356d9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3oqdnVtPVOyFMgHcRVn-rA@comcast.com>

Manu wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Here's what i want to accomplish.
> I want to make a list of frequenctly occuring words in a group of
> files along with the no of occurances of each
> The brute force method will be to read the file as a string,split,load
> the words
> into a dict with  words as key and no of occurances as key.
> Load the next file ,iterate through the new words increment the value
> if there is
> a match or add a new key,value pair if there is none.
> repeat for all files.
> 
> is there a better way ??
> 
>  
> Thanks in advance.
> Manu

Manu,

There are some things we would need to know to specifically
answer your question.  I've tried to answer it with some
"assumptions" about your data/usage:

1) How large are the files you are reading (e.g. can they
fit in memory)?

If not, you will need to read the file a line at a time
and process each line individually.

2) Are the words in the file separated with some consistent
character (e.g. space, tab, csv, etc).

If not, you will probably need to use regular expressions
to handle all different punctuations that might separate
the words.  Things like quotes, commas, periods, colons,
semi-colons, etc.  Simple string split won't handle these
properly.

3) Do the "files" change a lot?

If not, preprocess the files and use shelve to save a
dictionary that has already been processed.  When you
add/change one of the files run this process to recreate
and shelve the new dictionary.  In your main program
get the shelved dictionary from the preprocess program
so that you don't have to process all the files every
time.

Hope info helps,
Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.


From andreas at kostyrka.org  Sun Nov 14 09:33:33 2004
From: andreas at kostyrka.org (Andreas Kostyrka)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 15:33:33 +0100
Subject: numarray + cPickle problem
In-Reply-To: <1100366822.119444.157780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1100326589.669597.252570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1100366822.119444.157780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20041114143333.GA30323@kostyrka.org>

On Sat, Nov 13, 2004 at 09:27:02AM -0800, Bill  Mill wrote:
> A couple more details:
> 
> I'm using Python 2.3.4 and numarray 1.1. I've now found the
> numarray.array_persist module, which will let me pickle numarrays an
> alternative way, but I'd still like to know what's going on here. I can
> definitely pickle numarray.array objects in trivial cases.
> 
> Why doesn't Python raise an Unpickleable error? Why is it trying to
> import generic?
Just a guess: the generic submodule is a C language module that doesn't
know that it's meant to be a submodule. -> So it believes it's just
"generic.numarray" and not correctly "numpy.generic.numarray".

Andreas


From autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Nov 24 02:36:26 2004
From: autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Robson)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 07:36:26 +0000
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.23.07.09.08.229463@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<zn18e7pm.fsf@telus.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.24.07.36.24.700146@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:35:01 +0000, Lenard Lindstrom wrote:

>> I bought a copy of this in I reckon about 1986ish. Visual Basic debuted in
>> 1991.
> 
> I would hope that a rewrite of Claim-2 of the patent is required before the patent
> is accept (if it is not outright rejected). Claim-2 is too vague to be meaningful.
> Proper definitions of "BASIC" and "derived" are missing. I imaging the patent is
> intended to protect Visual Basic.NET rather than restrict unrelated languages
> like Delphi and Python anyways.

It's blatantly obvious to me that the C# classes, ASP.NET etc. are knock
offs of the Delphi design. They also bear little resemblance beyond the
most basic syntactic stuff to VB6.0 let alone VB1.0



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Nov 29 10:33:40 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:33:40 -0500
Subject: how to drop all thread ??
In-Reply-To: <cof1r1$qeu$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <coechh$amh$1@netnews.hinet.net>
	<cof1r1$qeu$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cofffl$5mq$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Leon wrote:
> 
> 
>>if class A(
>>use threading,thread module
>>) to produce 100 thread,how to drop its (100 thread) when its running
> 
> 
> By exiting. There is no other way to stop a thread by force. 

Note that even trying to exit won't work, if the threads are not
marked as "daemon" threads...  Only by calling .setDaemon(True) on
the threads before they are started will you be able to terminate
them all just by exiting.

-Peter


From exarkun at divmod.com  Sun Nov  7 11:53:57 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 16:53:57 GMT
Subject: determine IP
In-Reply-To: <85030DD4-30DB-11D9-A056-003065B11E84@leafe.com>
Message-ID: <20041107165357.14104.909475493.divmod.quotient.1252@ohm>

On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 11:38:57 -0500, Ed Leafe <ed at leafe.com> wrote:
>On Nov 7, 2004, at 11:04 AM, exarkun at divmod.com wrote:
> 
> >> is there a cross platform way to determine a local machines IP on a
> >> network (LAN or internet) in python?
> >>
> >
> >     s = socket.socket()
> >     s.connect(('google.com', 80))
> >     print s.getsockname()
> 
> 	If you are on a NAT machine on the local network, the above will 
> return the public IP of the network. If you change the target from 
> 'google.com' to a machine on your subnet that will accept the 
> connection, you'll get the local IP address.

  The above code will _always_ return the local IP address, regardless of NAT configuration.  For example, running on my desktop:

    >>> import socket
    >>> s = socket.socket()
    >>> s.connect(('google.com', 80))  
    >>> print s.getsockname()  
    ('192.168.42.4', 40044)
    >>> 

  Jp


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Nov  9 15:21:23 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:21:23 -0600
Subject: Embedding Python in a multi-threaded C++ application
In-Reply-To: <560b81a404110910492229b9df@mail.gmail.com>
References: <560b81a404110910492229b9df@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041109202122.GC3878@unpythonic.net>

Perhaps you can use PyErr_SetInterrupt() to create a KeyboardInterrupt
in the Python thread.

    void PyErr_SetInterrupt(    )
        This function simulates the effect of a SIGINT signal arriving
        -- the next time PyErr_CheckSignals() is called,
        KeyboardInterrupt will be raised. It may be called without
        holding the interpreter lock. 

There's no way to "clean up" after Python if you terminate its
thread---Python's datastructures could be in an inconsistent state, so
just releasing a lock wouldn't do you any good.

Jeff
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From hongqn at gmail.com  Fri Nov 12 04:32:50 2004
From: hongqn at gmail.com (Qiangning Hong)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:32:50 +0800
Subject: long-run repeatly timer?
In-Reply-To: <cn1uum$ss9$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <cn1uum$ss9$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <cn205o$vn2$1@sea.gmane.org>

At first I showed my test code:

     import threading
     def timer_handler():
         threading.Timer(10, timer_handler).start()
         do_something()
     timer_handler()

But it's tick interval is slightly more than 10 seconds because of 
creating of Timer object.  John Hoffman shows his code:

    from time import time, sleep

    t = time()
    while True:
        do_something()
        t += 10
        sleep(t-time())

His code can call do_something() exactly every 10 seconds, but if the 
system time is changed by GPS module, the counter will behave abnormal: 
if the system clock is adjusted backward, the timer will pause for some 
time; if the system clock is adjusted foreward, the timer will stop forever.

Jonh A Meinel provides a modified version of above code:

     t = time()
     while True:
         do_something()
         t += 10
         now = time()
         interval = t - now
         # If the time skews enough that we are outside of are 10 second
         # interval, switch back to a 10 second pulse
         if interval < 0 or interval > 10:
            interval = 10
             t = now + interval
         sleep(interval)

It does avoid the long waiting and forever-stopping, but it can not 
guaratee the tick interval as 10 seconds.


Qiangning Hong wrote:
> I asked this question on comp.python.wxpython using the subject "a 
> wx.Timer like timer without wx package?" and David Fraser there 
> suggested me to ask here for a more general solution.
> 
> I am implementing a long-run sample-and-record system.  It collects data 
> from a PCI card every 10 seconds, saves the data (timestamped with the 
> current system time) in the hard disk, and shows them on the screen. 
> There is also a GPS receiver module exists on the system, which correct 
> the system time (and the hardware time) when it drifts away too much, 
> however, I can not access the source code of this module.
> 
> The system requires the average sample rate is 6 times per minute to 
> analysis.  If the OS clock runs too fast or too slow, we can get the 
> infomation by the GPS module's log file, and then correct the analysised 
> result with that infomation.
> 
> So, wo need the counter (a repeatly timer for collecting data) to meet 
> these requirements:
> 
> 1. fires 6 times per minute, or to say, fires 60*24*360 times per 60 days.
> 2. will not be affected by the change of system time, foreward or backward.
> 3. no need for external hardware device, of cource.
> 4. not depend on any GUI package for it's a console based app.
> 5. works on a Windows mechine, cross-platform solution is better.
> 
> How can I implement such a timer?  Thanks in advance.
> 



From jerf at jerf.org  Fri Nov 19 23:19:44 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:19:44 -0500
Subject: instant messenging
References: <s9und.4018$Qh3.1971@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.20.04.19.43.795181@jerf.org>

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:08:24 +0000, Lucas Raab wrote:

> Are there any instant messenging programs out there for use in a Python 
> app?? I've heard of Jabber, but never looke into it.

Jabber is a particularly good choice if you are really looking to use it
in a *program*, i.e., programs shipping data around to other programs,
because it is the only IM protocol (AFAIK) that actually was built with
that in mind, with traditional IM being layered on top of that.

I don't know how easy it is to start with PyJabber and learn from scratch,
as I've worked with Jabber too much to have a fresh perspective. Shouldn't
be too hard, though.


From eternalsquire at comcast.net  Thu Nov  4 00:20:58 2004
From: eternalsquire at comcast.net (The Eternal Squire)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 22:20:58 -0700
Subject: pep 336:  Make None Callable
In-Reply-To: <cmcdo3$d85$1@panix2.panix.com>
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>
	<cmcdo3$d85$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <S-6dncf1OqqqIRTcRVn-jw@comcast.com>

Why not?

Aahz wrote:

> In article <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw at comcast.com>,
> The Eternal Squire  <eternalsquire at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
>>Title: Make None Callable
> 
> 
> No, *no*, *NO*, and *HELL NO*.
> 
> OTOH, once the BDFL Pronounces, we can return to laughing and pointing
> the next time this comes up.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Nov  2 11:50:45 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 08:50:45 -0800
Subject: slice object unpickable
In-Reply-To: <8dad5312.0411020229.6c1cf61a@posting.google.com>
References: <8dad5312.0411020229.6c1cf61a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041102084836.F7D5.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


sdementen at hotmail.com (Sebastien de Menten) wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I wonder why the slice object is not pickable via pickle or cPickle.
> E.g.:

[snip slice pickling]

I don't know why clice pickling was disabled.

To get past it, why not just store the argument tuples that lead to
slices?  (sli.start, sli.stop, sli.step)

 - Josiah



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Fri Nov 19 04:05:23 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 09:05:23 GMT
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<4195419b.303035081@news.oz.net>
	<slrncpgm80.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6381.1100534178.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpjcga.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6465.1100663898.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpmejc.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6506.1100723876.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncponhe.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6576.1100832119.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncprdqi.piq.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

On 2004-11-19, Tim Peters <tim.peters at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
>
> [Antoon Pardon]
>> Sure but that is not enough is it? The work for letting one thread
>> raise an exception in an other thread is done.
>
> Are you talking about the internal PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc gimmick? 
> If so, that's got nothing to do with signals.  If that's all you want,
> say so, and leave signals out of it.

I'm talking about PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc only as a throw in
response to your previous remark. The main subject is signals.

> As to whether the work is done, emphatically no, it isn't.  I hadn't
> looked at its implementation before, so just did.  That uncovered a
> critical bug "by eyeball", which may delay the release of Python 2.4. 
> Happy now <wink>?

Well wether the work is done or not hardly seems to matter. The
documentation as worded now seems to make it clear, this isn't
going get into the language 

> Seriously, that's just an error in the C coding.  The work for a
> Python-level feature hasn't even begun.  I'd guess it's about 5% of
> the way there (believe it or not, writing C code is typically the
> least time-consuming part of any language feature).

As I understand the doc, one doesn't plan to begin working on a
Python-level feature and even if someone else implements it, it
has no chance of getting in the language. As I read the docs it
is not so much a question of the feature not being ready for the
langauge, but a question of Guido not wanting the feature to be
in the language.


This just to show that having someone implement it, is not
the biggest hurdle as your prevous remark seemed to suggest
to me.

But that is enough of this tangent (although I did find your
remarks about it interesting)

>> To be more specific, the documentation of the signal
>> module states the following.
>> 
>>   ... only the main thread can set a new signal handler, and the main
>>   thread will be the only one to receive signals (this is enforced by
>>   the Python signal module, even if the underlying thread implementa-
>>   tion supports sending signals to individual threads).
>> 
>> The question I have is the following. That the main thread is the only
>> one to receive signals, is that purely implemented in the signal module
>> or is there some interpreter magic that supports this, which can
>> cause problems for an alternative signal module.
>
> Read the code?  As I said before, I pay no attention to the signal
> module, and the only way I could answer these questions is by studying
> the code too.  Maybe someone else here already knows, and will chip
> in.

Well I'll wait a few days to see if someone does, otherwise I'll see
I can find enough time to dive into the code.


Although you can't help me with my main question, I like to express
my appreciation for your responses. They have been very insighfull
and I'll be sure to use them to my advantage.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From keir at thelawsons.plus.com  Sun Nov  7 10:52:42 2004
From: keir at thelawsons.plus.com (Keir Lawson)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 15:52:42 +0000
Subject: determine IP
Message-ID: <1099842762.14624.0.camel@debian>

is there a cross platform way to determine a local machines IP on a
network (LAN or internet) in python?

Keir Lawson
-- 



From belred1 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 16 09:55:04 2004
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 14:55:04 GMT
Subject: adaptation (was: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it)
In-Reply-To: <1gncdvv.1y2msbz1yc1gaeN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<20041114200132.20649.1982992758.divmod.quotient.5222@ohm>
	<mailman.6390.1100553070.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbf8z.mirt8m687hvbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6397.1100570319.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnc2jt.uw5i19s61aieN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6409.1100591151.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gncdvv.1y2msbz1yc1gaeN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cxomd.93401$HA.21918@attbi_s01>

alex,

you've mentioned several times the concept of adapting parameters to a method.  but i'm not able to understand your few 
examples.  can you go more into depth (and with simpler examples) on this topic?

thanks,

bryan


From clarence at silcom.com  Wed Nov  3 02:34:10 2004
From: clarence at silcom.com (Clarence Gardner)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 23:34:10 -0800
Subject: getting socket.bind() exception, but no actual error
References: <1224a8f9.0411011045.6740c5d8@posting.google.com>
	<RSxhd.2736$931.635@lakeread01>
	<1224a8f9.0411021007.26ec80da@posting.google.com>
	<4187d4fc$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <1224a8f9.0411022334.66644d67@posting.google.com>

mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr) wrote in message news:<4187d4fc$1_4 at omega.dimensional.com>...
?  Because you get "Address already in use" exceptions due
> to old connections still being in the TIME_WAIT state?  If so, are
> you aware that server processes should usually set the SO_REUSEADDR
> socket option before calling bind()?  Or is there some other reason
> that bind() fails?

No, that's the only issue. I thought using that option was frowned upon,
but it's also been a couple of years since I needed to think about such
things, and I was too lazy to look it up for now.


From changli_to at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 25 21:58:16 2004
From: changli_to at hotmail.com (Chang LI)
Date: 25 Nov 2004 18:58:16 -0800
Subject: The use of :
Message-ID: <89cc6e1f.0411251858.40b6bbc7@posting.google.com>

Some statements use : in the tail such as while x > 0: and def func():
What is the meaning and the usage of : in Python?


From maxm at mxm.dk  Fri Nov 19 04:28:35 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:28:35 +0100
Subject: imaplib ... understanding the result from a fetch of RFC822s
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6529.1100758017.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6529.1100758017.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <419dbc5f$0$197$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Jp Calderone wrote:

>   Parsing IMAP4 is rather involved.  imaplib does a minimal job of it, and leaves many of the details up to you.  For a more complete parser, see Twisted's IMAP4 support: http://www.twistedmatrix.com/

OK. Thanks.

There is a few odd things in imaplib. Like an empty resultset being 
returned as [None] instead of just []

-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From tiarno at sas.com  Mon Nov  1 10:49:54 2004
From: tiarno at sas.com (Tim Arnold)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:49:54 -0500
Subject: fastest way for humongous regexp search?
Message-ID: <cm5lv3$7p4$1@license1.unx.sas.com>

Hi,
I've got a list of 1000 common misspellings, and I'd like to check a set of
text files for those misspellings.
I'm trying to figure out the fastest way to do it; here's what I'm doing now
(below).

I'm still learning Python, love it, and I'm pretty sure that what I'm doing
is naive.

Thanks for taking the time to look at this,
--Tim
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
(1) Create one humongous regexp, compile it and cPickle it. The regexp is
like this:

misspelled = (
'\\bjudgement\\b|' +
'\\bjudgemental\\b|' +

<snip><snip><snip>

'\\bYorksire\\b|' +
'\\bYoyages\\b')

p = re.compile(misspelled, re.I)
f = open('misspell.pat', 'w')
cPickle.dump(p,f)
f.close()
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
(2) Check the file(s), report the misspelling, the line number and the
actual line of text.
   - only warns on multiple identical misspellings
   - using 'EtaOinShrdlu' as a nonsense line-marker; tried \n but that
didn't give correct results.
   - running on HP Unix, Python 2.2

f = open('misspell.pat', 'r')
p = cPickle.load(f)

a = open('myfile.txt').readlines()
s = 'EtaOinShrdlu'.join(a)

mistake = {}
for mMatch in p.findall(s):
    if mistake.get(mMatch,0):
        print 'Warning: multiple occurrences of mistake "%s" ' % mMatch
    else:
        mistake[mMatch] = s.count('EtaOinShrdlu', 0, s.index(mMatch))

for k, v in mistake.items():
    print 'Misspelling: "%s" on line number %d' % (k, mistake[k]+1)
    print '%s \n' % a[mistake[k]]





From iddwb at moroni.pp.asu.edu  Tue Nov 16 11:26:49 2004
From: iddwb at moroni.pp.asu.edu (David Bear)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:26:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: simple symetric encryption advice
Message-ID: <slrncpkai7.8ir.iddwb@moroni.pp.asu.edu>

I would like some advice on what crypto lib to use. I am writing a cgi
app that will store sensative data in a backend postgresql server. I
have some simple numeric data I would like to make as safe as
possible, without too much overhead.

The goal would be to store the information in a simple reversable
encrypted form. The encryption key would live only in the python app
that was accessing the data. So perhaps there are two general
questions that could be asked.

1) has anyone else done this, and was it worth the extra overhead in
terms of data security.. yes, I know the system will only be as secure
as the python code.

2) more important to me, what crypto lib would make sense to use. I
was looking at using symetric key ciphers because the data will need
to be decrypted as well. I looked at the rotor class but there's a big
note that it has been deprecated.. Anyone have a recommendation as to
something better?

by better I would mean: 1) something reasonably fast, (retreiving 1000
tupples of something should require much time to decrypt) 2) something
that the code is fairly well reviewed and tested -- (I know all python
modules are well reviewed and tested, but there must be some modules
that are more equal than others;)).

Any advice appreciated.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Nov 13 16:00:54 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 13:00:54 -0800
Subject: Creating combination of sequences
In-Reply-To: <419659FA.7080100@rogers.com>
References: <7dc80c2.0411131026.c4cf2e@posting.google.com>
	<419659FA.7080100@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20041113124243.F909.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote:
> 
> Minho Chae wrote:
> 
> >Hello, python lovers!!
> >
> >I'm trying to create combinations of sequences.
> >  
> >
> A simple recursive generator should produce what you want while being 
> fairly easy to read...
> 
>  >>> def permute( choices, length=8 ):
> ...     if length > 1:
> ...         for suffix in permute(choices,length-1):
> ...             for choice in choices:
> ...                 yield choice + suffix
> ...     else:
> ...         for choice in choices:
> ...             yield choice
> 
> That's not the same ordering you wanted, but that's merely a matter of 
> swapping the order of choice and suffix.

Or even the better non-recursive 'base-k' version...

Note that a permutation is just a reordering of the set of elements that
one has.  There are only n! number of permutations of any arbitrary
sequence (assuming the n items are unique).

I can't remember the mathematical name of what the OP wanted (because my
brain is dumb today).


def blah(choices, length, force_string=0):
    lch = len(choices)
    length = long(length)
    if lch <= 0:
        raise ValueError, "choices must be a sequence of at least 1 item"
    if length <= 0:
        raise ValueError, "length must be an integer >= 1"
    #use longs and a while loop because we may be dealing with sequences
    #>= 2**31 in size, and we may be using Python < 2.4
    cur = 0L
    m = lch**length
    while cur < m:
        l = [choices[(cur//(lch**i))%lch] for i in xrange(length-1, -1, -1)]
        if force_string:
            yield ''.join(map(str, l))
        else:
            yield l
        cur += 1

>>> for i in blah('atcg', 2, 1):
...     print i
...
aa
at
ac
ag
ta
tt
tc
tg
ca
ct
cc
cg
ga
gt
gc
gg
>>> 


 - Josiah



From drew at gremlinhosting.com  Thu Nov 18 11:50:43 2004
From: drew at gremlinhosting.com (Andrew James)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:50:43 +0000
Subject: SPARK v.s. PLY
In-Reply-To: <jq3nd.42173$Z14.17083@news.indigo.ie>
References: <ed89f8f2.0411180648.49ac6763@posting.google.com>
	<jq3nd.42173$Z14.17083@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <1100796643.27722.52.camel@odin>

Alan,
You might also want to have a look at TPG (Toy Parser Generator):
http://christophe.delord.free.fr/en/tpg

The documentation is pretty good, feature list extensive and though
there aren't too many examples and you'll have to write your own
grammar, it might be worth trying.

I'm working on a small language implementation at the moment and have
found TPG to be pretty easy to use (but fairly difficult to bugfix)

Regards,
Andrew



From russblau at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 10 11:01:55 2004
From: russblau at hotmail.com (Russell Blau)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:01:55 -0500
Subject: [development doc updates]
References: <mailman.6215.1100101627.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2vesbrF2l9aegU1@uni-berlin.de>

"Fred L. Drake" <fdrake at acm.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.6215.1100101627.5135.python-list at python.org...
> The development version of the documentation has been updated:
>
>     http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/
>
> Lots of changes to how tables are actually formatted, with much of the
> styling moved from the HTML to the CSS stylesheet.
>
> Tables also look nicer in supporting browsers.
>
> Please review the tables and report any strange presentations; be sure
> to include the specific browser (including platform and version!) in
> your report.

Using MSIE 6.0 on Windows XP Professional, the tables have borders on the
left and bottom, but no borders on the top and right sides.  The interior
borders between cells are fine.


-- 
I don't actually read my hotmail account, but you can replace hotmail with
excite if you really want to reach me.




From aldo at nullcube.com  Tue Nov 16 01:14:36 2004
From: aldo at nullcube.com (Aldo Cortesi)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:14:36 +1100
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] Cubictemp v0.4
Message-ID: <20041116061436.GA22676@nullcube.com>


Cubictemp


Cubictemp is a small, elegant, security-conscious HTML
templating system. See the manual referenced from the Cubictemp
page for more information.

http://www.nullcube.com/software/cubictemp.html






-- 
Aldo Cortesi
aldo at nullcube.com
http://www.nullcube.com
Off: (02) 9283 1131
Mob: 0419 492 863


From stani_ at hotmail.com  Sun Nov 14 16:32:16 2004
From: stani_ at hotmail.com (SM)
Date: 14 Nov 2004 13:32:16 -0800
Subject: Pyrex on Windows
Message-ID: <99230dbb.0411141332.3594e925@posting.google.com>

Hi,
I would like to play with Pyrex for Windows. I have no clue how to
install it including a c compiler. Anyone using pyrex on windows who
could give a quickstart?
Stani

http://spe.pycs.net
http://www.stani.be


From dieringe at zedat.fu-berlin.de  Mon Nov 22 03:38:55 2004
From: dieringe at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Martin Dieringer)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:38:55 +0100
Subject: split large file by string/regex
Message-ID: <v5l872-sd4.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>


I am trying to split a file by a fixed string.
The file is too large to just read it into a string and split this.
I could probably use a lexer but there maybe anything more simple?
thanks
m.


From me at privacy.net  Sat Nov 20 08:06:04 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Dan Sommers)
Date: 20 Nov 2004 08:06:04 -0500
Subject: Identifying exceptions that can be raised
References: <6Rknd.6671$%M4.4203@trndny08>
	<cnmcek$rju$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<cdCnd.510$uV6.325@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <m2hdnky8jn.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 07:18:32 GMT,
Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:

> Peter Hansen wrote:
>> Nope.  That's that nasty ol' Java thinkin'. ;-)
>> Basically, given the dynamicism that is Python's hallmark,
>> you can't guarantee that any given function won't raise
>> an arbitrary exception.

> One of my puzzlements about Java 10 years ago or so was
> why it decided to go the "must declare every exception" route.

> Consider this simple and naive numeric integrator

> def integrate(f, start, end, n):
>    delta = (end-start)/float(n)
>    x = start + delta / 2
>    sum = 0.0
>    for i in range(n+1):
>      sum = sum + f(x)
>      x += delta
>    return sum / (n+1)

> That function cannot define all the exceptions that can be
> raised because f itself can raise an arbitrary exception.  Eg,

[ cool example of f reading data from a file-system cache snipped ]

> Again, IOError might be considered a system-level error
> such that it doesn't need declaring.  Then change it to
> polling some URL ("http://cache.server/" + str(x)) when the
> network is down, or getting it from some SQL database when
> the password is incorrect, or anything else that cannot be
> determined until actually calling f().

And what if f has its own run-time plug-in mechanism?

> It looks like the only thing to do is convert all such
> unhandled exceptions and wrap them in a catch-all generic
> exception.  I think I've seen people do that.  But if so,
> what's the point of having typed exceptions?

IMO (and maybe I'm just restating the obvious; it wouldn't be the first
time <g>), "the list of exceptions f is allowed to raise" shouldn't be
part of the interface of integrate, but rather "the list of exceptions
integrate will handle gracefully" should be.  Resumably, the caller of
f, or some entity far enough up the call chain, anyway, knows something
about f that integrate does not.  In some cases, that entity could be a
human sitting at an interactive console, and that human would like to
know if/when f raises exceptions not handled by integrate.

As to the original question, I agree:  there's no way that integrate can
know every exception f might raise, and there's no reason it should,
either.  f *must be content* with handling what it promises to handle
and letting everything else pass through it unchanged.  Logically, f is
part of the *caller* of integrate rather than being among the functions
integrate *calls*.

Regards,
Dan

-- 
Dan Sommers
<http://www.tombstonezero.net/dan/>
Never play leapfrog with a unicorn.


From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 11 10:42:50 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:42:50 -0500
Subject: re.compile.match() results in unicode strings - why?
In-Reply-To: <2vh2mlF2lbkrdU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2vh2mlF2lbkrdU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <419388f2$2_2@newspeer2.tds.net>

Axel Bock wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am doing matches with the re module, and I am experiencing a strange 
> problem. I match a string with
>     exp = re.compile(blah)
>     m = exp.match(string)
>     a,b,c,d = m.groups()
> now a,b,c,d are all string variables, and they all come out as unicode 
> strings (u"xxx").

Apparently if the input strings are unicode then the groups will be as well:
 >>> import re
 >>> r=re.compile('(ab)')
 >>> r.match('abc').groups()
('ab',)
 >>> r.match(u'abc').groups()
(u'ab',)

Are you sure that exp is not a unicode string?

Kent


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Tue Nov  9 08:13:57 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 09 Nov 2004 14:13:57 +0100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<87d5ysbkq9.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<4b39d922.0411051555.24f31663@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tyffz3j2mi2.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse) writes:

> Yes, wxPython is typically quicker than swing.  It's not fair to use
> this in a generic Python-vs-Java speed shootout, though, since
> wxPython is just a wrapper around wxWidgets' C++ code; you're really
> comparing C++ vs. Java here.

And Python's list.sort is just a wrapper around C code. So I guess
that it's not fair to use that, or any other Python built-in function,
in a Python-vs-X speed shootout. This would mean you can't use Python
classes in such a shootout either, as type.__new__ and object.__new__
are both also merely wrappers around C code ... not to mention Python
dictionaries: wrappers around C code which are used in just about
every name lookup in Python.

So, the conclusion is that it's not fair to use Python in a
Python-vs-X speed shootout. 

I rather like that conclusion :-)


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sat Nov  6 18:30:01 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 18:30:01 -0500
Subject: Python OS
In-Reply-To: <cmiorc$j4b$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmin1n$500$02$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6003.1099752590.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmiorc$j4b$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <418D5E79.4040602@cloudthunder.com>


>>P.S.  If one can program interrupt routines in C, they can do the same
>>in Python.
>>    
>>
>
>Show me how you set the interrupt jumptables to your routines in python and
>how you write time-critical code which has to be executed in a few hundred
>cpu-cycles. And how good that works together with the GIL.
>
>
>  
>
Here is my logic:  If one can do X in C and Python is C-aware (in other 
words Python can be exposed to C) then Python can do X via such exposure.


From hills838 at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 22 19:08:14 2004
From: hills838 at hotmail.com (hills)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:08:14 +0800
Subject: The limitation of the Photon Hypothesis
Message-ID: <20041123000916.EB6B31E4003@bag.python.org>

Please reply to hdgbyi at public.guangzhou.gd.cn.
Thank you! 
 

The limitation of the Photon Hypothesis

 

According to the electromagnetic theory of light, its energy is related to the amplitude of the electric field of the electromagnetic wave, W=eE^2(where E is the amplitude). It apparently has nothing to do with the light's circular frequency v. 

To explain the photoelectric effect, Einstein put forward the photon hypothesis. His paper hypothesized light was made of quantum packets of energy called photons. Each photon carried a specific energy related to its circular frequency v, E=hv. This has nothing to do with the amplitude of the electromagnetic wave. 

 

For the electromagnetic wave that the amplitude E has nothing to do with the light's frequency v, if the light's frequency v is high enough, the energy of the photon in light is greater than the light's energy, hv>eE^2. Apparently, this is incompatible with the electromagnetic theory of light.

THE UNCERTAINTY PRINCIPLE IS UNTENABLE

 

By re-analysing Heisenberg's Gamma-Ray Microscope experiment and one of the thought experiment from which the uncertainty principle is demonstrated, it is actually found that the uncertainty principle cannot be demonstrated by them. It is therefore found to be untenable.

Key words: 
uncertainty principle; Heisenberg's Gamma-Ray Microscope Experiment; thought experiment 

 

The History Of The Uncertainty Principle

If one wants to be clear about what is meant by "position of an object," for example of an electron., then one has to specify definite experiments by which the "position of an electron" can be measured; otherwise this term has no meaning at all. --Heisenberg, in uncertainty paper, 1927

Are the uncertainty relations that Heisenberg discovered in 1927 just the result of the equations used, or are they really built into every measurement? Heisenberg turned to a thought experiment, since he believed that all concepts in science require a definition based on actual, or possible, experimental observations.

Heisenberg pictured a microscope that obtains very high resolution by using high-energy gamma rays for illumination. No such microscope exists at present, but it could be constructed in principle. Heisenberg imagined using this microscope to see an electron and to measure its position. He found that the electron's position and momentum did indeed obey the uncertainty relation he had derived mathematically. Bohr pointed out some flaws in the experiment, but once these were corrected the demonstration was fully convincing. 

 

Thought Experiment 1

The corrected version of the thought experiment

Heisenberg's Gamma-Ray Microscope Experiment


A free electron sits directly beneath the center of the microscope's lens (please see AIP page http://www.aip.org/history/heisenberg/p08b.htm or diagram below) . The circular lens forms a cone of angle 2A from the electron. The electron is then illuminated from the left by gamma rays--high-energy light which has the shortest wavelength. These yield the highest resolution, for according to a principle of wave optics, the microscope can resolve (that is, "see" or distinguish) objects to a size of dx, which is related to and to the wavelength L of the gamma ray, by the expression: 

dx = L/(2sinA) (1) 

However, in quantum mechanics, where a light wave can act like a particle, a gamma ray striking an electron gives it a kick. At the moment the light is diffracted by the electron into the microscope lens, the electron is thrust to the right. To be observed by the microscope, the gamma ray must be scattered into any angle within the cone of angle 2A. In quantum mechanics, the gamma ray carries momentum as if it were a particle. The total momentum p is related to the wavelength by the formula, 

p = h / L, where h is Planck's constant. (2) 

In the extreme case of diffraction of the gamma ray to the right edge of the lens, the total momentum would be the sum of the electron's momentum P'x in the x direction and the gamma ray's momentum in the x direction: 

P' x + (h sinA) / L', where L' is the wavelength of the deflected gamma ray. 

In the other extreme, the observed gamma ray recoils backward, just hitting the left edge of the lens. In this case, the total momentum in the X direction is: 

P''x - (h sinA) / L''. 

The final x momentum in each case must equal the initial X momentum, since momentum is conserved. Therefore, the final X moment are equal to each other: 

P'x + (h sinA) / L' = P''x - (h sinA) / L'' (3) 

If A is small, then the wavelengths are approximately the same, 

L' ~ L" ~ L. So we have 

P''x - P'x = dPx ~ 2h sinA / L (4) 

Since dx = L/(2 sinA), we obtain a reciprocal relationship between the minimum uncertainty in the measured position, dx, of the electron along the X axis and the uncertainty in its momentum, dPx, in the x direction: 

dPx ~ h / dx or dPx dx ~ h. (5) 

For more than minimum uncertainty, the "greater than" sign may added. 

Except for the factor of 4pi and an equal sign, this is Heisenberg's uncertainty relation for the simultaneous measurement of the position and momentum of an object. 

Re-analysis

The original analysis of Heisenberg's Gamma-Ray Microscope Experiment overlooked that the microscope cannot see the object whose size is smaller than its resolving limit, dx, thereby overlooking that the electron which relates to dx and dPx respectively is not the same.

According to the truth that the microscope can not see the object whose size is smaller than its resolving limit, dx, we can obtain that what we can see is the electron where the size is larger than or equal to the resolving limit dx and has a certain position, dx = 0.

The microscope can resolve (that is, "see" or distinguish) objects to a size of dx, which is related to and to the wavelength L of the gamma ray, by the expression: 

dx = L/(2sinA) (1) 

This is the resolving limit of the microscope and it is the uncertain quantity of the object's position. 

The microscope cannot see the object whose size is smaller than its resolving limit, dx. Therefore, to be seen by the microscope, the size of the electron must be larger than or equal to the resolving limit. 

But if the size of the electron is larger than or equal to the resolving limit dx, the electron will not be in the range dx. Therefore, dx cannot be deemed to be the uncertain quantity of the electron's position which can be seen by the microscope, but deemed to be the uncertain quantity of the electron's position which can not be seen by the microscope. To repeat, dx is uncertainty in the electron's position which cannot be seen by the microscope. 

To be seen by the microscope, the gamma ray must be scattered into any angle within the cone of angle 2A, so we can measure the momentum of the electron. But if the size of the electron is smaller than the resolving limit dx, the electron cannot be seen by the microscope, we cannot measure the momentum of the electron.  Only the size of the electron is larger than or equal to the resolving limit dx,  the electron can be seen by the microscope, we can measure the momentum of the electron. According to Heisenberg's Gamma-Ray Microscope Experiment,  the electron??s momentum is uncertain,  the uncertainty in its momentum is dPx.

dPx is the uncertainty in the electron's momentum which can be seen by microscope. 

What relates to dx is the electron where the size is smaller than the resolving limit.  When the electron is in the range dx, it cannot be seen by the microscope, so its position is uncertain, and its momentum is not measurable, because to be seen by the microscope, the gamma ray must be scattered into any angle within the cone of angle 2A, so we can measure the momentum of the electron. If the electron cannot be seen by the microscope, we cannot measure the momentum of the electron.

What relates to dPx is the electron where the size is larger than or equal to the resolving limit dx .The electron is not in the range dx, so it can be seen by the microscope and its position is certain, its momentum is measurable.

Apparently, the electron which relates to dx and dPx respectively is not the same. What we can see is the electron where the size is larger than or equal to the resolving limit dx and has a certain position, dx = 0. 

Quantum mechanics does not rely on the size of the object, but on Heisenberg's Gamma-Ray Microscope experiment. The use of the microscope must relate to the size of the object. The size of the object which can be seen by the microscope must be larger than or equal to the resolving limit dx of the microscope, thus the uncertain quantity of the electron's position does not exist. The gamma ray which is diffracted by the electron can be scattered into any angle within the cone of angle 2A, where we can measure the momentum of the electron. 

What we can see is the electron which has a certain position, dx = 0, so that in no other position can we measure the momentum of the electron. In Quantum mechanics, the momentum of the electron can be measured accurately when we measure the momentum of the electron only, therefore, we have gained dPx = 0. 

And, 

dPx dx =0. (6) 

 

Thought Experiment 2

Single Slit Diffraction Experiment


Suppose a particle moves in the Y direction originally and then passes a slit with width dx(Please see diagram below) . The uncertain quantity of the particle's position in the X direction is dx, and interference occurs at the back slit . According to Wave Optics , the angle where No.1 min of interference pattern can be calculated by following formula: 

sinA=L/2dx (1) 

and L=h/p where h is Planck's constant. (2) 

So the uncertainty principle can be obtained 

dPx dx ~ h (5) 

Re-analysis

The original analysis of Single Slit Diffraction Experiment overlooked the corpuscular property of the particle and the Energy-Momentum conservation laws and mistook the uncertain quantity of the particle's position in the X direction is the slit's width dx.

According to Newton first law , if an external force in the X direction does not affect the particle, it will move in a uniform straight line, ( Motion State or Static State) , and the motion in the Y direction is unchanged .Therefore , we can learn its position in the slit from its starting point. 

The particle can have a certain position in the slit and the uncertain quantity of the position is dx =0. According to Newton first law , if the external force at the X direction does not affect particle, and the original motion in the Y direction is not changed , the momentum of the particle in the X direction will be Px=0 and the uncertain quantity of the momentum will be dPx =0. 

This gives: 

dPx dx =0. (6) 

No experiment negates NEWTON FIRST LAW. Whether in quantum mechanics or classical mechanics, it applies to the microcosmic world and is of the form of the Energy-Momentum conservation laws. If an external force does not affect the particle and it does not remain static or in uniform motion, it has disobeyed the Energy-Momentum conservation laws. Under the above thought experiment , it is considered that the width of the slit is the uncertain quantity of the particle's position. But there is certainly no reason for us to consider that the particle in the above experiment has an uncertain position, and no reason for us to consider that the slit's width is the uncertain quantity of the particle. Therefore, the uncertainty principle, 

dPx dx ~ h (5) 

which is demonstrated by the above experiment is unreasonable. 

 

Conclusion

Every physical principle is based on the Experiments, not based on MATHEMATICS, including heisenberg uncertainty principle. Einstein said, One Experiment is enough to negate a physical principle.

>From the above re-analysis , it is realized that the thought experiment demonstration for the uncertainty principle is untenable. Therefore, the uncertainty principle is untenable. 

 

Reference:
1. Max Jammer. (1974) The philosophy of quantum mechanics (John wiley & sons , Inc New York ) Page 65
2. Ibid, Page 67
3. http://www.aip.org/history/heisenberg/p08b.htm 

 

Single Particles Do Not Exhibit Wave-Like Behavior

 

Through a qualitative analysis of the experiment, it is shown that the presumed wave-like behavior of a single particle contradicts the energy-momentum conservation laws and may be expained solely through particle interactions.

 

 

DUAL SLIT INTERFERENCE EXPERIMENT

PART I

 

If a single particle has wave-like behavior, it will create an interference image when it has passed through a single slit. But the experimental result shows that this is not the case Only a large number of particles can create an interference image when they pass through the two slits.

 

 

PART II

 

In the dual slit interference experiment, the single particle is thought to pass through both slits and interfere with itself at the same time due to its wave-like behavior. The motion of the wave is the same direction as the particle. If the particle passes through a single slit only, it can not be assumed that it has wave-like behavior. If it passes through two slits, it, and also the acompanying wave must be assumed to have motion in two directions. But a wave only has one direction of motion.

 

PART III

 

If one slit is obstructed in the dual slit interference experiment and a particle is launched in this direction, then according to Newton??s first law, (assuming no external forces,) it will travel in a uniform straight line. It will not pass through the closed slit and will not make contact with the screen. If it has wavelike behavior, there is a probability that it will make contact. But this will negate Newton??s first law and the law of conservation of energy and momentum. Both quantum mechanics and classical mechanics are dependent on this law.

 

THE EXPLANATION FOR

THE WAVE-LIKE BEHAVIOR

OF THE PARTICLE

 

In the dual slit interference experiment, if one slit is unobstructed, particles will impact at certain positions on the screen. But when two slit are open, the particles can not reach these positions. This phenomenon brings us to the greatest puzzle regarding the image of the particle. But when we consider that the particle may experience two or more reflections, the puzzle may be resolved.

 

As indicated, when one of the slits is obstructed, the particles that move towards this slit can not get to the screen. However, they can return to the particle source by reflection and then pass through the open slit and reach the above positions since they have different paths when one or two slits are open. This indicates that wave-like behavior may be explained solely on the basis of particle interactions.

 

 

EXPERIMENTAL TEST

 

The above may be tested by an experiment which can absorb all the particles that move towards the closed slit. If one slit  is obstructed by the stuff which can absorb all the particles that move towards it,  the intensity of some positions on the screen should decrease.


 

 

THE CONCLUSION

 

Single particles do not exhibit wave-like behavior.

The similarity of wave and particle behavior may be attributed to initial impulse and path.

The quantum mechanical explanation is suspect, since the probability of one particle and one particle among a large quantity reaching the screen is equal in mathematics and physics.

 

Author : BingXin Gong
Postal address : P.O.Box A111 YongFa XiaoQu XinHua HuaDu
               GuangZhou 510800 P.R.China

E-mail: hdgbyi at public.guangzhou.gd.cn
Tel: 86---20---86856616 

 

 

 


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov  2 14:24:34 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 19:24:34 GMT
Subject: dicts & lists together
References: <cm8kki$4fi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <4187de79.1447401863@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:45:38 -0500, Brad Tilley <bradtilley at gmail.com> wrote:

>I have a dict that associates strings to numbers like this {'abc': 1, 
>'xyz':2, '123':3,...} I am then given a list of strings ['abc', 'xyz', 
>'123',...] and asked to associate a number to each string in the list 
>according to the string's value in the dict. I am at a loss as to how to 
>do this, can someone show me where to start?

Associate as in list of number,string pairs?

 >>> dct = {'abc':1, 'xyz':2, '123':3}
 >>> strings = ['abc','xyz','123','error']
 >>> [(dct[s],s) for s in strings]
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 KeyError: 'error'
 >>> [(dct.get(s, 99999),s) for s in strings]
 [(1, 'abc'), (2, 'xyz'), (3, '123'), (99999, 'error')]

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Nov 19 12:21:37 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:21:37 GMT
Subject: returning unordered keyword arguments from a function (WAS: Are
 multiple return values really harmful?)
In-Reply-To: <8ef9bea6.0411190633.4da78912@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.6511.1100727971.5135.python-list@python.org>	<8ef9bea6.0411180831.e44ae56@posting.google.com>	<e47nd.630528$8_6.343583@attbi_s04>
	<mailman.6562.1100809213.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xg8nd.107946$HA.41832@attbi_s01>
	<8ef9bea6.0411190633.4da78912@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <BYpnd.118485$R05.104345@attbi_s53>

Hung Jung Lu wrote:
> 
>>>Steven Bethard wrote:
>>>>>>>r = object(year=2004, month=11, day=18)
>
[snip a bunch of good arguments for including generic objects]

It does sound like there's some support for putting something like this 
into the language.  My feeling is that the right place to start would be 
to put such an object into the collections module.  (If necessary, it 
could get moved to builtins later.)

Is this something a PEP should be written for?

Steve


From riko.wichmann at remove-this.desy.de  Fri Nov 19 04:03:47 2004
From: riko.wichmann at remove-this.desy.de (Riko Wichmann)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:03:47 +0100
Subject: activating history in Python 2.3.4
Message-ID: <cnkd0b$25i72$1@claire.desy.de>

dear all,

lately, I installed Python 2.3.4 from sources (after having 2.2 for some 
time).
However, running Python interactively, I cannot recall the histroy of 
command with cursor-up or down anymore (just get ^[[A for example).
As far as I could find out, it has something to do with GNU readline. 
When I do

 >>> import readline
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: No module named readline

things seem to be clear. However, since my old Python 2.2 seems to have 
readline it means, gnu readline is in principle available.

How can I activate history, or where do I get the readline module from?

Thanks and cheers,

	Riko


From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil  Sun Nov  7 21:05:32 2004
From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Lou Pecora)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 21:05:32 -0500
Subject: Installed MacPython 10.3 Addons - Can't find Modules,
	even standard ones.
References: <pecora-03E3B5.09264507112004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<mailman.6092.1099867374.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pecora-0C8663.21053207112004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>

In article <mailman.6092.1099867374.5135.python-list at python.org>,
 Maurice LING <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote:

> Did you ever install Python through Fink or had used Fink before?
> 
> Try to do
> import sys
> sys.path()
> and see where it points to?
> 
> My suspicion is that there are more than one pythons in your system now...
> 
> Cheers
> maurice

Ah...Good idea.  Will give that a go.  I did not install any Fink stuff 
ever.  Only thing I had was the old Python 2.2 for Jaguar from 2003.  
That seemed to be deleted automatically when I installed the 2.3 addons.

-- Lou Pecora  (my views are my own)


From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Tue Nov 30 06:11:38 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:11:38 +0100
Subject: Problem with tkinter mainloop
In-Reply-To: <e45f2bb3.0411300235.5c9b8d22@posting.google.com>
References: <e45f2bb3.0411300235.5c9b8d22@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41ac53ac$0$30438$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

k2riddim wrote:
> Hello,
> I'm a beginner with Python and Tkinter development.
> My application parse links in an html file. And I use Tkinter to
> implement a GUI. This GUI has a button to launch the parse treatment,
> and a status bar to show the state of the treatment.
> I know that because of the mainloop, my tkinter application freeze
> while my treatment isn't finished. That's why my status bar doesn't
> update herself in real time.
> I wanted to use the after or the after_idle function, but I don't
> really understand why it doesn't work.

after and after_idle won't help you: the action you register in these methods 
are called only when the main loop gets back the control, and your problem is 
precisely that the main loop does not get it...

The method you're probably looking for is update_idletasks: it updates the 
display without getting any user event. There's another method called update, 
but this one does process user events, so it may call some of your code if such 
an event is pending. This is usually not what you want to do, except in some 
very rare cases.

Here is how it may look like in your code, along with a few remarks on your code:

> 
> My apps is build approximately like that :
> 
> ---Gui.py---
> class Gui(Frame):

Why do you inherit from Frame? A Tkinter Frame is a generic container widget; 
this is not a window. IMHO, you'd better inherit from Tk for your main window or 
from Toplevel for other windows. You'd also get better control on the actual 
window, since some of the methods available on Tk and Toplevel are not available 
on other widgets (e.g. geometry or protocol)

>         def __init__(self):
>                 ...
>         def launchTreatment(self):
>                b = Treatment()
>                self.after(b.treatment.parse)

This cannot be your code; the after methods takes two parameters: the number of 
milliseconds to wait before the action will be called and the action itself. You 
only provide the action here. But again, the after method won't help you to get 
what you want...

> 
> ---Treatment.py---
> class Treatment():
>         def __init__(self):
>                 ...
>         def parse(self):
>                ...
>                GUIinstance.status.set("state 1")

This is where the GUIinstance.update_idletasks() should go.

>                ...
>                GUIinstance.status.set("state 2")

Another GUIinstance.update_idletasks() here.

> 
> 
> ---Main.py---
> #instanciation of classes
> GUIinstance = Gui

Again, this cannot be your code, since you do not instantiate the class here. 
The correct line should be:

GUIinstance = Gui()

It is usually far better to post a working example demonstrating the problem you 
have instead of just extracting a few lines of your whole code. This will help 
people who are willing to help to understand exactly what is going on.

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  1 02:46:09 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:46:09 +0200
Subject: List problem
References: <clttqo$gfu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
	<mailman.5668.1099072329.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<v2m9o0d7d1v3h4doumfkmb4djk41u0gb9c@4ax.com>
	<1gmiyon.jvyq1w1ob9r59N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41853d5f.1278687054@news.oz.net>
	<1gmjqh9.oialil1r1xwffN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41858eaa.1299498379@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <1gmkg86.1nzf8g91e7yby5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
   ...
> >def delsome_am(n=1000000, todel=[2]):
> >    a = range(n)
> >    a = [x for x in a if x not in todel]
>      ^-- shud be a[:] ;-)
> (I think the missing return a is in the noise ;-)

Right, sorry.

> >kallisti:/tmp alex$ python -mtimeit -s'import br' 'br.delsome_br()'
> >10 loops, best of 3: 4.44 sec per loop
> >kallisti:/tmp alex$ python -mtimeit -s'import br' 'br.delsome_am()'
> >10 loops, best of 3: 3.92 sec per loop
> >
> I thought you had 'way faster machines than mine. Neither time is an
> improvement over delsome_br for 2.3.2 on my old box. I wonder what's up.

I ran these on an 800 MHz laptop, the one I invariably use for netting
-- best ergonomics.  OK, I'll try with faster machines when I get a
chance -- I'm surprised you measure almost a 1:2 ratio with _br faster.


Alex


From jerf at jerf.org  Wed Nov 17 20:49:06 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 20:49:06 -0500
Subject: don't NaN & infinities hide FP errors
References: <940ee3e8.0411170130.31d247@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.18.01.49.05.537966@jerf.org>

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 01:30:33 -0800, kartik wrote:

> Since Python floats are implemented using C doubles, assuming IEEE 754
> compliance, certain operations should result in NaN or infinity. Don't
> such special values hide errors? Would we want our variables to be in
> such states? I feel it would be better if a floating point division by
> zero (or other actions that produce NaNs or infinities) throws an
> exception, just like an integer divide by zero.
> 
> Am I right?

You may think, while dealing with your problems and programs, that NaN is
an error. 

I may want them, because NaN, Inf, and exceptions are not the same things.

If you're working with floats, you're *already* in a domain where
*everything* might hide an error. Along with everybody else's reply
(including Tim Peter's which should be considered "definitive"), I'd add
that trying to create a float-based system that *doesn't* "hide errors" is
basically a contradiction in terms. All you can do is make a few choices
about which errors you want.



From djdennie69 at hotmail.com  Fri Nov  5 08:52:18 2004
From: djdennie69 at hotmail.com (Dennis Hotson)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 00:52:18 +1100
Subject: Add a file to a compressed tarfile
References: <pan.2004.11.05.13.13.16.645896@hotmail.com>
	<opsgzt98rb13dtg9@vpn-client-248-060.london.eur.slb.com>
	<mailman.5962.1099662034.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.05.13.52.18.538666@hotmail.com>

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 13:40:22 +0000, Martin Franklin wrote:

> On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 13:26:22 -0000, Martin Franklin  
> <mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 00:13:16 +1100, Dennis Hotson  
>> <djdennie69 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm trying to write a function that adds a file-like-object to a
>>> compressed tarfile...  eg ".tar.gz" or ".tar.bz2"
>>>
>>> I've had a look at the tarfile module but the append mode doesn't  
>>> support
>>> compressed tarfiles... :(
>>>
>>> Any thoughts on what I can do to get around this?
>>>
>>> Cheers!
>>
> 
> 
> <snip - useless info from myself>
> 
> Sorry I just re-read your message after sending my reply....

Ahh ok... Yeah, I've already seen the docs... thanks anyway! :D

I'm currently trying to read all of the files inside the tarfile... then
writing them all back. Bit of a kludge, but it should work..

Cheers!

Dennis


From Python at IvoNet.nl  Wed Nov 10 15:04:55 2004
From: Python at IvoNet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:04:55 +0100
Subject: ConfigParser
References: <nrr3p0d03b1p2pcvk7irgbm1k0nurndehj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <2rs4p01b9uugvd6huie5g3oebbe8n2ueo3@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:39:27 GMT, Manlio Perillo
<NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it> wrote:

>Regards.
>
>Since sections in CongiParser files are delimited by [ and ], why
>there is not an escape (and unescape) function for escaping
>&, [, and ] characters to &amp;, &lbrack; and &rbrack; ?
>
>
>
>
>Thanks   Manlio Perillo

By the way I did some testing because i have a similar thing going on
right now. I found out that

[section]
option = [Ivo Woltring]

is valid and does not have to be translated to
[section]
option = &lbrack;Ivo Woltring&rbrack;

to work.


so my current class is a bit unnessesary:

#
# IniFile extents the ConfigParser with my own functions
#
__author__    = "Ivo Woltring"
__version__   = "01.00"
__copyright__ = "Copyright (c) 2004 Ivo Woltring"
__license__   = "Python"

from ConfigParser import *

class IniFile(ConfigParser):
  """IniFile
  Is an extention on the ConfigParser class.
  It overrulles the write method so it can write directly to a file
provided as
  a parameter. The whole filehandling is done by the IniFile.write(fp)
method.
  """
  def __init__(self, defaults=None):
    ConfigParser.__init__(self, defaults) # supers init
    self.replace = [('&lbrack;','['),
                    ('&rbrack;',']'),
                   ]
    
  def write(self,fp):
    """write(filename) --> written file"""
    try:
      f = open(fp,'w')
    except IOError:
      raise IOError
    #ConfigParser.write(self,f)
    self._write(f)
    f.close()
    
  def _replace(self, txt ,reverse=False):
    """Replace the self.replace stuff"""
    for source, target in self.replace:
      if reverse: txt=txt.replace(target, source)
      else:       txt=txt.replace(source, target)
    return txt
    
  def get(self, section, option, raw=False, vars=None):    # override
the get() method of super
    """get(section, option, [raw=False], [vars=None]) --> String
    this get() is an extention on the origional ConfigParser.get()
    This one translates html style '&lbrack;' to '[' etc.
    """
    if raw:
      return ConfigParser.get(self, section, option, raw, vars) # call
the get of super
    return self._replace(ConfigParser.get(self, section, option, raw,
vars)) 
  
  def _write(self, fp):
      """Write an .ini-format representation of the configuration
state."""
      if self._defaults:
          fp.write("[%s]\n" % DEFAULTSECT)
          for (key, value) in self._defaults.items():
              fp.write("%s = %s\n" %
                       (key, self._replace(str(value).replace('\n',
'\n\t'), reverse=True)))
          fp.write("\n")
      for section in self._sections:
          fp.write("[%s]\n" % section)
          for (key, value) in self._sections[section].items():
              if key != "__name__":
                  fp.write("%s = %s\n" %
                           (key,
self._replace(str(value).replace('\n', '\n\t'), reverse=True)))
          fp.write("\n")



if __name__=="__main__":
  import sys,os
  p = IniFile()
  p.add_section('section')
  p.set('section','option','[Ivo Woltring]')
  p.write(os.path.splitext(sys.argv[0])[0]+'.ini')
  print p.get('section','option')
  print p.get('section','option', raw=True)
  raw_input('Press enter to continue...')  


have fun... I do,

Cheerz, Ivo.



From nospam at nospam.com  Fri Nov  5 19:51:30 2004
From: nospam at nospam.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 01:51:30 +0100
Subject: Color schemes
In-Reply-To: <18282ecb.0410301418.1ee469f5@posting.google.com>
References: <41838c6e$0$7153$d5255a0c@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<18282ecb.0410301418.1ee469f5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <418c2006$0$34293$cd19a363@news.wanadoo.nl>

Josiah and M.E.,

Thanks you for your replies. As I understand from your answers, 
the colorised scripts on web sites have little to do with the 
use of colorisation in script editors by Python programmers, but 
those programmers who prefer an editor with colorisation 
features probably apply colorisation rules similar to the pretty 
looking scripts on websites and there probably is't a standard 
colour scheme.

Best,

Mark

M.E.Farmer wrote:
> Mark Schonewille <nospam at nospam.com> wrote in message news:<41838c6e$0$7153$d5255a0c at news.wanadoo.nl>...
> 
>>Is anyone using a color scheme for his Python scripts?
> 
>  Yes.
> 
>>I suspect most people are using a text editor which may or may not support 
>>colorisation of scripts.
> 
>  Good intuition, because some do and some don't :)
>  Many of the python editors out now are based on Scintilla.
>  Scintilla is a capable, colorizing, folding, text widget on 'roids.
> 
>>Do you use a similar script in a Python IDE or in your text 
>>editor to colorize your Python scripts?
> 
>  I use an editor that is based on Scintilla .
>  To convert python source to colorised html for webpages and documentation,
>  I have been writing a module called PySourceColor.
>  It is a based on token and tokenize.
>  If you are intrested you can find it here:
>  'http://bellsouthpwp.net/m/e/mefjr75/'
>  This is a new version and has many improvements.
>  Also there is a version of pydoc there that serves up colorized html.
>  HTH,
>     M.E.Farmer

-- 

eHUG coordinator
http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch
http://www.ehug.info



From M.Waack at gmx.de  Sun Nov 21 14:27:40 2004
From: M.Waack at gmx.de (Mathias Waack)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:27:40 +0100
Subject: How can I interrupt os.system(cmd)?
References: <Ei5od.1690$3N5.841@amstwist00>
Message-ID: <cq6772-f48.ln1@valpo.de>

Carl wrote:
> What options do I have to control execution of external programs
> from Python?

You have the same options as your OS offers. At least under Unix you
can run a command by using one of the popen()-functions or using the
commands module (I would suggest the latter for you). All these
procedures give you the process id (pid) of the started process. You
can wait() for this process or you can control it by sending it
signals using the kill() function. The python docs contains all
information necessary to use these functions. Read the pages about
the modules os, popen and commands. Most of these functions should
be available under all OS. 

Mathias


From jfine at pytex.org  Sun Nov 14 07:30:40 2004
From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 12:30:40 +0000
Subject: Smart dummy objects
Message-ID: <41974FF0.4080207@pytex.org>

I'd appreciate comments on what I'm doing.

Please be kind, I'm a new kid on the block.


Here's my application.

I'm writing some test code.

(I'm a recent convert to unit testing.)


I want to test a series of changes to an object.

The change methods return self, so I can form chains.

Like so:
    x = obj.this().that(12).other(x=3, y=12)
    assert x is obj


A Dummy class (easily coded) allows:
    d = Dummy()
    y = d.this().that(12).other(x=3, y=12)
    assert y is d
to execute without errors.

Function calls (and getting attributes) do not change d.

And these operations return self.


I'm looking for a SmartDummy class.

So that:
    sd = SmartDummy()
    sd.this.that(12).other(x=3, y=12)
    assert z is sd
always executes without errors (it's a Dummy) ...


... and because it's a SmartDummy,
    magic = sd.special_method_name(obj)
is equivalent to
    magic = obj.this().that(12).other(x=3, y=12)
even to the raising of exceptions.


This allows a chain of changes to be stored in a SmartDummy.

And then applied to a succession of real objects.


Before writing much code, I did a google for "SmartDummy" and "smart
dummy" in this newsgroup.

I got no hits, which discouraged me.

I then searched all newsgroups.  Got 24 and 39,200 hits resp.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&q=SmartDummy
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&q=Smart+Dummy&btnG=Search&meta=

The 24 were not helpful, the 39,200 too many.


A search of the web for SmartDummy was not helpful.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=SmartDummy


But "Smart Dummy" was.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Smart%20Dummy&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=gw

The very first hit was:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/mediaroom/releases/nat/2004/04-h082e.htm

It announced the Canadian debut of:
===
WorldSID (World Side Impact Dummy) was born out of a need to have a
world harmonized crash test dummy that would better simulate the motions
of a human in side impact crash testing.
===


This encouraged me. Smart Dummies are important.  They can save lives.

Maybe they are a good idea.  Let's try to make a Python SmartDummy.

So I went ahead and spend the morning coding up my SmartDummy class.


Much of it is now working, but it's not yet ready for its Python debut.

Hope this of interest.


BTW, I'm a bit of a Python newbie, particularly regarding culture.

This is my first post to comp.lang.python. (I was a lurker.)

However, I am a regular on comp.text.tex.


As I said, I'd appreciate your comments on this.


Jonathan



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Nov  2 09:49:29 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:49:29 -0600
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10of7jtm07h7f77@news.supernews.com>

How does the Python Package Index not meet this need?

I can think of one very serious difference, which has
kept me from placing a module in the PPI.

John Roth

"Stephen Ferg" <steve at ferg.org> wrote in message 
news:b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338 at posting.google.com...
>I am a very satisfied user of Python and have been for number of
> years.  I would never willing use another language.  I wish all good
> things for Python, and that moves me to express some thoughts about
> Python's future prospects.

[rest of post snipped]



From noway at sorry.com  Wed Nov 24 22:44:50 2004
From: noway at sorry.com (Giovanni Bajo)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 03:44:50 GMT
Subject: zip module password
References: <cnt99a$n2n$2@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
	<cntjm6$qc2$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<HUYod.48278$Ni.1673449@twister1.libero.it>
	<hdnfv6ly.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <Sycpd.50686$Es2.1096704@twister2.libero.it>

Thomas Heller wrote:

>>> suggests that there is no such support in the standard zipfile
>>> module yet, but that a patch has been available for some time (but has
>>> not yet been accepted).
>>
>> "has not yet been *commented*" or even looked at would be more
>> appropriate. In fact, it is no wonder that it is my sole
>> contribution to Python -- I found the lack of responsiveness so
>> depressing.
>
> Here's one possible way to push it further:
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-October/049495.html

I am sorry for Martin, but this looks like total bullshit to me. I am *not*
qualified to review Python patches because I am not a Python developer. If I
review 10 patches, my work could be totally useless, if not even dangerous for
Python itself. I could easily miss blatant bugs, suggest wrong things,
understand interface decisions wrong. It would be a total waste of time for me;
plus, some real Python developer would have to double-check my work, because it
would be completely fool for them to just blindly trust my reviews. And if they
carefully double-check my work, they could spend that very time by reviewing
the patches themselves.

Usually, you get involved in development by submitting small patches, getting
reviews and comments, learning by your errors, and understanding things as you
go. If the only way to get a review is to produce 10 reviews out of *no*
experience, you do not have time to learn. Plus, it is really surprising to me
that the Python team is so developed-starved to ask random people whose
experience is totally unknown to review patches on their behalf.

If they need more developers, they could stop improving Python for some months,
just how long it takes them to review all those patches. Nobody would scream
and they might end up with a bunch of new wannabe developers to help them.
-- 
Giovanni Bajo




From nick at craig-wood.com  Sun Nov 14 08:30:38 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 14 Nov 2004 13:30:38 GMT
Subject: .pyc files...
References: <1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.6345.1100420943.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncpel29.hfd.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Eddie Parker <eddie at kickingdragon.com> wrote:
> Stephen Waterbury wrote:
> > alias cleanpy="find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm {} ';'"
> > or with backticks:  rm -rf `find . -name '*.pyc'`
>  Hrmm, this is more a *NIX discussion, but I'm curious:
> 
>  That could be problematic if you have too many .pyc files found - overflow
>  the command buffer, no?
> 
>  Something like: "find . -name '*.pyc' | xargs -i rm -f {}", would solve
>  that, as xargs executes each encountered argument individually, I believe (I
>  think the -exec command does similar, in Stephen's original post).

the -exec will spawn rm for each file which is inefficient as will
your xargs solution.

However

  find . -name '*.pyc' | xargs rm -f

Just spawns one rm.  If the number of files gets too big for a command
line then xargs spawns another rm.

This isn't bullet proof though - consider what happens when you get
file names with 's in etc...

This *is* bullet proof though

  find . -name '*.pyc' -print0 | xargs -0 rm -f

And if you don't want an error when there aren't any files

  find . -name '*.pyc' -print0 | xargs -0r rm -f

End unix sysadmin lecture ;-)

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From lists at debpro.webcom.dk  Thu Nov  4 10:21:36 2004
From: lists at debpro.webcom.dk (Jacob Friis)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 16:21:36 +0100
Subject: Simple thread pools
Message-ID: <418A4900.7020304@debpro.webcom.dk>

I have built a script inspired by a post on Speno's Pythonic Avocado:
http://www.pycs.net/users/0000231/weblog/2004/01/04.html#P10

I'm setting NUM_FEEDERS to 1000.
Is that crazy?
Are there a better solution?

Thanks,
Jacob


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Nov 29 18:56:29 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 23:56:29 GMT
Subject: documentation for PyArg_ParseTupleAndKeywords
Message-ID: <NGOqd.485972$D%.108119@attbi_s51>

I'm just starting to play around with the Python source.  (Specifically, 
I'm looking at adding a key argument to max/min like sorted has.)  Can 
anyone direct me to the documentation on how 
PyArg_ParseTupleAndKeywords, etc. work?  In particular, I can't figure 
out how the format arg to vgetargskeywords should be specified...

Thanks,

Steve


From mwm at mired.org  Fri Nov  5 22:39:10 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 21:39:10 -0600
Subject: Python for Reverse Engineering
References: <cmhdi4$7vi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <x7pt2rr6ht.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Brad Tilley <rtilley at vt.edu> writes:

> A friend of mine wrote an algorithm that generates strings. He says
> that it's impossible to figure out exactly how the algorithm
> works. That may be true, but I think if I had enough sample strings
> that I could write a program to identify patterns in the strings and
> then produce strings with similar patterns. He disagrees with me. He
> gave me 100 strings to analyze.
>
> I wrote a script to read each string and build a list of characters
> present. I've discovered that he only uses 20 alpha/numeric chars to
> generate the strings and that each string sums up to a value between
> 1000 and 1200 when I assign each char in the string its ASCII value.
>
> What else might I do to analyze these things? As it stands now, I can
> generate an acceptable string on ever 100th attempt or so, but I'd
> like to do better than this.

Build a markov chain generator. Basically, build tuples of characters
of length N, and use those to index a dictionary containing a list (or
string) of characters that follow that list of characters in your
input strings. So, with N equal 2, and d[('a', 'b')] = ['c', 'd', 'e']
you'd know that the strings abc, abd and abe appeared in the text. To
gennerate a string, pull a random key from the dictionary, then choose
random characters from the list that the last N characters treated as
a tuple index in the dictionary. Larger values of N generate strings
that more closely resemble the input text.

Optionally, make the objects stored in the dictionary keep a count of
how many times each character appears, and choose one randomly
weighted by those counts.

I've got a markov chain generator that works on words if you really
want to see one.

         <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Tue Nov  2 19:17:37 2004
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe Cavalaria)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 01:17:37 +0100
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<4187aafe$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<slrncofp1m.dvf.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<41880188$0$14993$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5845.1099434851.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418823a1$0$14963$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Steven Bethard wrote:

> Christophe Cavalaria <chris.cavalaria <at> free.fr> writes:
>>
>> If by ML you thing of OCaml you should try again. OCaml isn't type safe
>> because of a few modules of the standard library. The marshaling module
>> comes to mind. Using it you can "typecast" a pointer to an integer as a
>> pointer to a string and segfault in the process because the unmarshal
>> function trusts the caller to cast the result in the good type.
> 
> Thanks, I knew I'd read something like that somewhere.  Totally surprised
> me too 'cause I figured that, of all people, ML folks would be the most
> afraid of a module like this. =)
> 
> Steve

Marshaling ( Python calls it pickling ;) ) is somthing needed in the
standard library of any good language. Too bad for them that the OCaml
language makes it impossible to implement.


From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Nov 21 17:44:37 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:44:37 +0100
Subject: Small Database Needed
In-Reply-To: <20041121145440.85318.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041121145440.85318.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41A11A55.4000103@ghaering.de>

Kevin McBrearty wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> I'm looking at implementing DB in my program for
> analysis of CAD (STL Files).  This database will
> require the basic functionality.
> 
> Query
> Sort
> Delete/Add Records
> [...]

pysqlite should fit your requirements nicely.

Get it here:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=54058

On Windows just use the binary installer, this is all you need.

On *nix if you're lucky (Debian, FreeBSD, maybe others) it is packaged 
for you. Or you have to build it yourself.

If you don't want or don't actually need a relational database, metakit 
or the bsddb package included with Python could also be enough. I 
haven't used either, though.

-- Gerhard


From autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Nov 13 15:00:23 2004
From: autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Robson)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 20:00:23 +0000
Subject: Advice needed
References: <mailman.6328.1100365221.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.13.20.00.07.377585@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 16:57:41 +0000, Premshree Pillai wrote:

> Lots of reasons why you should learn Python. I'll
> leave that to others in the mailing-list. :)
> 
> I'm not sure where I heard the following, but I've
> heard it:
> "If God did OOP, he'd do it in Python."

If God did it he might have figured out len() should be a method...


From tismer at stackless.com  Wed Nov 24 12:35:11 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:35:11 +0200
Subject: Paid Research Project on Stackless 3.1
In-Reply-To: <1gm8k08.2z1kw7u3x98rN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.5383.1098608837.5135.python-list@python.org>	<468v42-c23.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	<1gm8k08.2z1kw7u3x98rN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41A4C64F.2010700@stackless.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
...
> Wish I didn't have the Cookbook's 2nd ed at such a critical stage
> (blocked on contributors' permissions, UGH, and requiring lots of time
> and non-programming effort to work around the block), plus much else
> cooking, or I'd consider taking it up myself (being peeved that I wasn't
> listed among Christian's "real hardcore system hackers with many years
> of experience" -- well I _do_ have the many years, at least!-)...

Oops! Sorry about that. When I wrote this, I was just thinking of
some attendants of the Stackless sprint who went quite deeply
into the stuff. Thinking of a challenge for students.
Of course that sentence about many years of experience makes
no sense in that context. I guess I was very tired and afraid
of getting too many replies.

Having a company with a larger contract, I saw this as way to
save guys like you and me from a boring debug marathon, because
we have enough different things to do.

Hoping very much to see you on the next pypy sprint -- chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
tismerysoft GmbH             :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9A     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776  fax +49 30 80 90 57 05
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Nov 11 14:20:11 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:20:11 -0800
Subject: Tkinter and WCK (was Re: How come wxPython isn't in the standard
 library?)
In-Reply-To: <2vgfe5F2m8raqU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2vgfe5F2m8raqU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <10p7elrkgnmh75@corp.supernews.com>

Jon Perez wrote:

> I think there's another reason not to standardize on
> wxPython and it's that its API is not at all pythonic.
> It reminds me too much of a C++ API.


Indeed, one of wxPython's design criteria is that it remains fairly 
close to the underlying C++ API -- it is explicitly a fairly thin 
wrapper, not a complete retooling.  (Though there are several retoolings 
built on top of wxPython, notably PythonCard.) 

I think that, despite the sometimes awkwardness for Python programmers, 
this is a laudable goal.  For one, it means that it's that much easier 
to combine Python and C++ in a single wxPython/wxWidgets multilanguage 
application.  For another, considering that wxPython is essentially a 
one-man project, it means that Robin can spend more time exposing 
functionality and less time hiding syntax, so that overall wxPython ends 
up being more powerful than it would otherwise. ;)

On the other hand, I *do* agree that the non-Pythonic API does make for 
a barrier in including wxPython in the standard library.  The initial 
learning curve for wxPython is rather steeper than that for Tkinter 
(though it isn't at all bad if one already has C++ GUI programming 
experience).  Especially when starting from zero, it's easier to figure 
out how to get a simple GUI running under Tkinter.  The downside of 
Tkinter is that it is, in general, less flexible and less powerful than 
wxPython -- simple stuff is easier in Tkinter, but complex stuff is 
generally harder. 

Personally, I much prefer using wxPython.  (But then, I did play around 
with C/C++ Windows programming long before I discovered Python.)  
However, I can also see that the Tkinter toolkit is more appropriate for 
standard-lib usage than wxPython is.  And really, it's not like it's all 
that difficult to install both Python and wxPython when distributing an 
application...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From rambam at bigpond.net.au  Fri Nov  5 06:26:07 2004
From: rambam at bigpond.net.au (Israel Raj T)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 11:26:07 GMT
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <87d5ysbkq9.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>

Maurice LING <mauriceling at acm.org> writes:

> This may be a dumb thing to ask, but besides the penalty for dynamic
> typing, is there any other real reasons that Python is slower than
> Java?

Do you have any data to support this ?
On Windows XP, Windows NT and Linux (Gentoo ), I have consistently
found python apps using wxpython to be far faster to load
and to be far more responsive than Java apps.


From mc79 at cse.buffalo.edu  Mon Nov 15 19:03:01 2004
From: mc79 at cse.buffalo.edu (Madhusudhanan Chandrasekaran)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:03:01 -0500
Subject: Redirecting system output quietly
In-Reply-To: <6542462a.0411151555.5fe41de4@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.6287.1100207213.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gn8ja3.7d3sbhuk94khN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<6542462a.0411151555.5fe41de4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.56.0411151901320.27753@pollux.cse.buffalo.edu>

Hi,
  I am a newbie here. I want to know how to redirect os.system("ls -af")
to a string variable without it barfing the answer of ls -af on the
screen.

Thanks in advance,
Madhusudhanan.C


From hari04 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 15 16:01:52 2004
From: hari04 at gmail.com (Hari  Pulapaka)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 13:01:52 -0800
Subject: Set like feature
Message-ID: <1100552512.672456.317420@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I have a list of space delimited strings ending in a newline.
Eg: a = ['a sfds sdf s df 34 ew\n', 'df sdf s f s ssf\n']

Now inside each row, I have a space delimited list of fields.

Now I want to compare the fields in each row of the array and see which
fields do not match.

Think of it as a 2 dimensional array of size mn, and comparing each
each element on a column by column basis.

I am using python2.2 so no sets. Can anyone think of an efficient way
to do this? 

Thanks,

Hari



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Nov 12 23:01:37 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 23:01:37 -0500
Subject: a very newbie question about threading
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.13.09.39.18.937887@jerf.org>
References: <9c3edc58.0411121629.45652543@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.13.09.39.18.937887@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <cn40u3$e8f$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Jeremy Bowers wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:29:53 -0800, Chris Patton wrote:
>>I've recenently stumbled upon a concept known as "threading". 
> 
> I'd add that with no insult intended, "threading" and "very newbie" do not
> go together well. Threading is the most common source of the notorious
> "heisenbug", ...
> Generally, unless you *know* you need them, you don't, ...

Excellent post, Jeremy, though I think it's worth adding something
like this:

Python makes writing threaded code much more straightforward than
many languages, and also provides some protection from some types
of bugs which are almost ubiquitous in threaded applications in
some other languages.  By sticking with the Queue object (see the
module by that name) as the sole means of communication between
threads, the vast majority of other thread-related problems
simply disappears.  Not all of them -- and Jeremy's caution about
threads giving even expert programmers pause applies -- but in
general Python's not a bad place to learn and use threads...

-Peter


From maxm at mxm.dk  Fri Nov  5 03:18:40 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 09:18:40 +0100
Subject: Extract Title from HTML documents
In-Reply-To: <cme4ae$12ci$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
References: <cme4ae$12ci$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <418b36ac$0$304$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Nickolay Kolev wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I am looking for a way to extract the titles of HTML documents. I have 
> made an honest attempt at doing it, and it even works. Is there an 
> easier (faster / more efficient / clearer) way?

You anly need one tag here, so using a regex is ok.

linkPattern = re.compile('((<title.*?>(.*?)</body>))', re.I|re.S)
match = linkPattern.search(source)
if match is None:
     result = ''
result = match.group(0)

If you need more than just the title I would definitely go with 
BeautifulSoap.

-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From goodger at python.org  Tue Nov  2 09:00:26 2004
From: goodger at python.org (David Goodger)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 09:00:26 -0500
Subject: python backward incompatibilities
In-Reply-To: <cm80v0$ssg$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <cm80v0$ssg$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <cm83u1$lge$1@sea.gmane.org>

[Peter Maas]
> I tried to find a comprehensive list of Python backward incompatibilities
> without success. What is the fastest way to compile such a list
> (with code examples / expected results)? Thanks for your hints.

PEP 290 would be a good start:
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0290.html

-- 
David Goodger <http://python.net/~goodger>
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From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Wed Nov 10 15:12:23 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:12:23 +0100
Subject: get element text in DOM?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6228.1100113797.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6228.1100113797.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41927627$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Juliano Freitas wrote:
> How can i get the text between the <teste> tags??
> 
> 
>>>>xml = """<root><teste> texto </teste></root>"""

You must know that the text between the tags is a DOM element
by itself, namely a TEXT node, which is a child of the
elment node formed by the tag.

So try;

xml = """<root><teste> texto </teste></root>"""
from xml.dom import minidom
document = minidom.parseString(xml)
element = document.getElementsByTagName('teste')
textelt=element[0].firstChild
print textelt.nodeType, textelt.nodeValue

and it will print:

3  texto

--Irmen


From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 10 11:02:15 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:02:15 -0500
Subject: [development doc updates]
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6215.1100101627.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6215.1100101627.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41923be3$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>

Fred L. Drake wrote:
> The development version of the documentation has been updated:
> 
>     http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/
> 
> Please review the tables and report any strange presentations; be sure
> to include the specific browser (including platform and version!) in
> your report.

Do you wath the reports here or in the bug tracker? Anyway here is one:

Using Firefox 1.0 and Firefox 1.0PR on Win2K, the tables are missing the 
left and right borders. For example in Section 2.3.6, the table of 
operations for sequence types, in the 2.3.4 docs I have a black border 
on left, right and bottom; in the dev docs it is only on the bottom.

Kent


From gustavo.cordova at q-voz.com  Tue Nov 30 13:24:22 2004
From: gustavo.cordova at q-voz.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gustavo_C=F3rdova_Avila?=)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:24:22 -0600
Subject: comment out more than 1 line at once?
In-Reply-To: <Xns95B1B4E0EFF52ukcoREMOVEfreenetrtw@130.133.1.4>
References: <cohc71$2pqli$1@claire.desy.de>
	<Xns95B1B4E0EFF52ukcoREMOVEfreenetrtw@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <41ACBAD6.60704@q-voz.com>

Rob Williscroft wrote:

>Riko Wichmann wrote in news:cohc71$2pqli$1 at claire.desy.de in 
>comp.lang.python:
>
>>Dear all,
>>
>>is there a way in Python to comment out blocks of code without putting a 
>># in front of each line? Somethings like C's
>>
>>/*
>>     block of code here is commented out
>>*/
>>
>if False:
>
>  (indented) block of code here is commented out
>
>I've no idea how efficient it is compared to triple-quoted strings
>or line by line comments. But (at least with the editors I use) it
>does retain the syntax highlighting, which I quite like YMMV.
>
>BTW for C and C++:
>
>#if 0
>
> block of code here is commented out
> /* with embeded comments ! */
>
>#endif
>
>Rob.
>
Actually, it's infinitly [sp?] more defficient
(contrary of efficient?) than triple-quoted strings
or line-by-line comments, because those two never
make it to execution stage, because they're dropped
by the compiler. :-)
-- 
Gustavo C?rdova Avila <gustavo.cordova at q-voz.com> 
<mailto:gustavo.cordova at q-voz.com>
*Tel:* +52 (81) 8130-1919 ext. 127
Integraciones del Norte, S.A. de C.V.
Padua #6047, Colonia Sat?lite Acueducto
Monterrey, Nuevo Le?n, M?xico.


From niels_bohr at uol.com.br  Sat Nov  6 23:52:43 2004
From: niels_bohr at uol.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio?= Mendes)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 02:52:43 -0200
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <roy-F37F78.22073306112004@reader1.panix.com>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<mailman.5999.1099743679.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418D61D3.3040904@acm.org>
	<mailman.6032.1099794432.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-F37F78.22073306112004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1099803163.11311.57.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Em S?b, 2004-11-06 ?s 22:07 -0500, Roy Smith escreveu:
> Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
> > And I have certainly written some extremely poorly optimized
> > Python programs that positively *crawled*.
> 
> My guess is the poor performance had nothing to do with the language you 
> wrote it in, and everything to do with the algorithms you used.

Well, try to write a Linear Algebra algorithm in pure python... Then
you'll see that pyrex, scipy or the C API are your friends. Of course
algorithmis matters, but for some intensive CPU applications python can
be as slow as 1/100 C using the same algorith. This, of course, matters.
At least if your program is running this kind of operation most of the
time.

> Local optimizations rarely gets you more than a factor of 2 improvement.  
> Choice of language (at least within the same general catagory such as 
> comparing one native compiled language to another, or one virtual 
> machine language to another) probably has a somewhat broader range, but 
> still a factor of 10 would be quite surprising.

10x or 20x difference is likely to hurt you. If you have a 20x slower
computer were you be using the same apps as you use now? For scientific
simulations (which interest me most), it's the difference between get
your results after 1day calculation of one month...

> To get really bad performance, you need to pick the wrong algorithm.  A 
> project I worked on a while ago had a bit of quadratic behavior in it 
> when dealing with files in a directory.  Most of our customers dealt 
> with file sets in the 100's.  One customer had 50,000 files.  Going 
> from, say, 500 to 50,000 is a 100-fold increase in N, and gave a 
> 10,000-fold increase in execution time.

This is an extreme case, but is a typical behaviour of how a good
algorithm can modify the execution times of your program: scaling up
neatly. The language matters indeed, but python is well served in a
broad range of libs. For the most CPU intensive tasks there are usually
python bindings for C/C++/Fortran libraries, so it's usually possible to
execute python code at native speeds. This is why I use python in my
(simple) physics applications: scipy gives me a very good interface for
evaluating heavy numeric stuff. When I program in C++ I'm usually
tempted to write a lot of code from the scratch, for I'm lazy to search
for the write libs and learn how they work. I'm a physicist, not a real
programer, so this end up with C++ code slower than python's (which uses
scipy magic). 

The point I want to make here is that library programmers usually makes
much better (in the sense it's faster) code than an application
programmer. So, in any language, if you want to write a big project from
the scratch, you'll probably end up with a buggy, slow and cumbersome
library for the 'low level' stuff, and the high level interface will
never move on. If you pick up the existing libs and extend them to
tailor your needs, you have better chances of success. Python seems to
be better than java in this point (at least in the OSS arena), for there
is an enourmously bigger set of libraries you can start with, and is
easier to wrap C/C++/Fortran code to it. So the likely 10% or so runtime
penalty I get for running a C lib through python is more than paid in
application development time. To me, what matters is: can a __python
program__ run as fast as a __c program__? In lots of cases: yes, just
use the right lib. 

All this 'java interpreter is faster than python interpreter' nonsense
doesn't appeal to me. For intensive CPU operations, neither interpreters
are good, or even decent, so there is no subistitute for a good o' low
level implementation. Can java use those implementations as easyly as
python? --No-- Does java have a comparable set of low level (fast!) libs
wrapped to it? --Not as rich as python--. So forget the language
shootout contest! Those are not real world examples, they're complete
crap. Python has a richer set of faster libs than java. Use them,  so
when it matters, python usually can be faster than java. This is enough
for me for saying that python IS faster than java.

If you care much, a python program can be almost as fast as a C one,
just use a python wrapper to a C lib or use pyrex! This is not saying
that language doesn't matter. Not all so called scripting languages have
the same facilities as python. For instance perl is very optimized to
regex substitution, but lacks more broad biddings for, for example
numeric libraries. We're lucky to use python, we're lucky that it has so
many facilities. Other scripting languages have nice syntax, powerful
builtin objects and other gizmos that make them much more expressive and
productive than the low level counterparts. IMHO python is unique in the
fact that it also provides very nice set of wrapped low level libraries
to run runtime critical pieces of code, so in a lot of cases we can get
the best of both worlds. Java is too much a in between for me: execution
not so fast, but not so slow; development not so fast, but not so slow;
builtins not so expressive, but not so low level either; it is not that
good, neither that bad, etc... 

Cheers,
Fabio


From sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au  Thu Nov 11 18:55:47 2004
From: sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au (Sam Holden)
Date: 11 Nov 2004 23:55:47 GMT
Subject: distutils and Debian
References: <4192AD69.5040707@sympatico.ca>
	<slrncp5cf6.v8.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<qeGdnUA1FNXrJw_cRVn-oA@giganews.com> <cmuf87$fm5$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<1UKkd.32427$km5.1574845@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<cn006r$1om$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<xiOkd.41802$km5.1658609@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <slrncp7v03.j6h.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:36:22 -0500, Colin J. Williams <cjw at sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Robert Kern wrote:
>> Colin J. Williams wrote:
>> 
>>> I have installed the Python*-dev packages, but my present problem 
>>> centres on installing distutils.
>> 
>> 
>> Why are you trying to install distutils over the one provided by 
>> python-dev? It's probably not a good idea.
> I am doing this because there is no distutils in the Debian packages for 
> Python2.3.4 or Python 2.3.4-dev.

What debian are you using?

On unstable (x86) I get:
; apt-cache search distutils | grep python2\\.3
python2.3-dev - Header files and a static library for Python (v2.3)
python2.3-scipy-core - low level utilities for scipy (for python 2.3)
; dpkg -L python2.3-dev | grep distutils/__init__
/usr/lib/python2.3/distutils/__init__.py
; python2.3 -V
Python 2.3.4

On stable (x86) I get:
; apt-cache search distutils | grep python2\\.3
python2.3-dev - Header files and a static library for Python (v2.3)
; dpkg -L python2.3-dev | grep distutils/__init__
/usr/lib/python2.3/distutils/__init__.py
; python2.3 -V
Python 2.3b2+

I can't see a python2.3.4 package anywhere...

I you are using stable you should be able to pull 2.3.4 from testing,
assuming it's in there of course (and if not from unstable)...

-- 
Sam Holden


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Fri Nov 26 17:57:35 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 00:57:35 +0200
Subject: Introduction/box
References: <mailman.6831.1101507514.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <25dfq09do1vvpd62b6bkjn73np33m3761j@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 22:21:45 +0000, rumours say that cm012b5105
<cm012b5105 at blueyonder.co.uk> might have written:

>Hello every body this is my first post i would just like to say im new to to 
>python iv tried out several different tutorials.And i think its great anyway 
>i would like to ask a question if i may i want to know how to make a 
>box /square i was hoping some one would tell me. That way i would have 
>something to work off,iv just downloaded pygame and i haqve done all my 
>practice using "idle" thanks 

I know almost nothing about PyGame, but a quick search using Google
brought this up:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/pygame-users/2031142

It could help.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
"Tssss!" --Brad Pitt as Achilles in unprecedented Ancient Greek


From rich_NOSPAM_ at _NOSPAM_holmteam.net  Sun Nov 14 21:48:47 2004
From: rich_NOSPAM_ at _NOSPAM_holmteam.net (RichH)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 20:48:47 -0600
Subject: HELP : pystemmer win32 binary
References: <20041110073441.70719.qmail@web41523.mail.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6205.1100074733.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <MPG.1c00abbaf258f469989688@news.wowway.com>

In article <mailman.6205.1100074733.5135.python-list at python.org>, 
bingham at cenix-bioscience.com says...
> kent sin wrote:
> 
> >I urgently need a binary version of pystemmer. I am
> >using python 2.3 and windows 2000.
> >
> >I have try to download the free MSVC toolkit. But
> >don't known how to do it myself. 
> >
> AFAIK, the free MS compiler will not help you here, because binaries 
> created with it are incompatible with MSVC 6.0, with which Python 2.3 is 
> built.  You can build Python 2.3 extensions using MinGW, however.  See 
> http://www.mingw.org/MinGWiki/index.php/Python%20extensions. 
> 

Incompatible?  About the only thing I have problem with is the print 
method in C++.  I use 7.1 to compile all my extensions.  MSVC is crap
for any kind of standard C++.

Remember, the python C API is extern "C", so compiling with 7.1 isn't
an issue unless you use shared crt structs (like the FILE* in print).

Cheers,
Rich



From tim.tadh at gmail.com  Fri Nov 19 13:05:31 2004
From: tim.tadh at gmail.com (Tim Henderson)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 10:05:31 -0800
Subject: Class Encapsulation Errors in Python 2.3.3
References: <47f7cc78.0411182007.1b77c2b1@posting.google.com>
	<nrudnceoVIIV5QDcRVn-hw@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <47f7cc78.0411191005.7b793bf@posting.google.com>

Here is a partial implementation, i don't have the code with me but
this is how the songs list is made

code:
-------------------------------------------
class Album:
    
    name = ''
    songs = []
    artist = ''

    def __init__(self, name, artist):
        
        self.name = name
        self.artist = artist
-------------------------------------------

after reading the code i came up with a possible solution:

possible code:
-------------------------------------------
class Album:
    
    name = ''
    songs = False
    artist = ''

    def __init__(self, name, artist):
        
        self.name = name
        self.artist = artist
        if songs == False:
            songs = []
------------------------------------------


i will test this when i get home, and update the thread with results

cheers
Tim Henderson



"Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote in message news:<nrudnceoVIIV5QDcRVn-hw at rogers.com>...
> Please post the implementation of the Album class.  The problem is coming 
> probably from the way the Songs list is defined or initialized.  That is, 
> the definition or the initialization probably cause the list object that is 
> assigned to Songs to be shared by all the Album instances.  But I (and 
> likely no one else) can say exactly what the problem is without seing the 
> code.
> 
> Dan
> 
> "Tim Henderson" <tim.tadh at gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:47f7cc78.0411182007.1b77c2b1 at posting.google.com...
> > Hi i have some errors in my code that i can't find the reason for here
> > is the error
> >
> > i have 3 classes:
> > -Song
> > -Album
> > -Artist
> >
> > Song has 3 pieces of data with getter and setter meathods:
> > -Name | i.e. song name
> > -Album
> > -Artist
> >
> > Album has 3 pieces of data:
> > -Songs | a list of Song() instances
> > -Name
> > -Artist
> >
> > Artist has 4 pieces of Data:
> > -Name
> > -Songs | a list of Song() instances
> > -Albums |a list of Album() instances
> > -unknownAlbum | the album a song is put into if it doesn't have an
> > album
> >
> >
> > now the problem arises when i add songs into multiple albums like
> > this:
> > Code:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> > s = Song('song 1')
> > s2 = Song('song 2')
> >
> > a = Album('hey')
> > a.addSong(s)
> > ab = Album('yeayea')
> > print a
> > print ab
> > ab.addSong(s2)
> > print
> > print a
> > print ab
> > ------------------------------------------------
> > Output:
> > ************************************************
> > hey song 1    hey   |
> > yeayea song 1    hey   |
> >
> > hey song 1    hey   | song 2    yeayea   |
> > yeayea song 1    hey   | song 2    yeayea   |
> > ************************************************
> >
> > the "hey" album has "song 1" as it is suppose to however so does
> > "yeayea" even though when "song 1" was put in the album "hey" 'yeayea'
> > didn't even exist yet.
> >
> > Why is this happening. I checked the actually memory refrence for each
> > instance and they are different, these supposidly isolated different
> > intances of clases are linked for some inexplicable reason.
> >
> > Does any one know why this is happening and how i can fix it?
> >
> > cheers
> > Tim Henderson


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Sun Nov 21 12:31:11 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 09:31:11 -0800
Subject: Looking for a good interactive shell
In-Reply-To: <cnq463$19n9$1@news.uit.no>
References: <cnq463$19n9$1@news.uit.no>
Message-ID: <cnqjcv$jk9$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Tomas wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I'm looking for a replacement for the standard interactive python shell. So 
> far I've tried IPython and PyCrust. I liked both, but I'm not 100% happy 
> with any of them. My main complaint about IPython is its missing support for 
> multiline editing. To do multiline editing, it has to start an external 
> editor, but then I lose all the nice features like autocompletion.
> 
> PyCrust supports multiline editing, but the autocompletion is not as good as 
> in IPython. It also lacks many of IPython's advanced features, like 
> pdb-integration, magic commands and custom macros.
> 
> Does anyone know of any other interactive python shells with good code 
> completion and multiline editing?

Not really. IPython is being rewritten to be more flexible and modular 
so that the niceties like pdb integration, magic commands, and macros 
can be integrated into PyShell, for example.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From pierre.barbier at cirad.fr  Tue Nov  9 04:37:59 2004
From: pierre.barbier at cirad.fr (Pierre Barbier de Reuille)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 10:37:59 +0100
Subject: Mixing Python And Bash
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6131.1099954889.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6131.1099954889.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41908f93$0$32237$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Tom Purl a ?crit :
> I just wrote a Python script that is going to be called from bash script.
>  If the Python script fails, I want the bash script to also stop running. 
>  Unfortunately, I can't seem to get that to work.  Here's the script so
>  far:
> 
> # custom python script
> /usr/bin/python /home/username/Dev/Python/packZODB.py \ 
>   -s"gsgmc.sigma.zettai.net" -b 7
> 
> # next program
> /usr/bin/someOtherProgram
> 
> I don't want the second program to run if the first program fails.  Isn't
> that the default in bash?  If someone could please point me in the right
> direction regarding this problem, I would really appreciate it.
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Tom Purl
> 

If you only have 2 programs (or few programs) you can use :

prog1 && prog2

Then prog2 will only be launched if prog1 succeeded ...

Pierre


From jbors at mail.ru  Wed Nov  3 23:18:45 2004
From: jbors at mail.ru (Dmitry Borisov)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 20:18:45 -0800
Subject: ANN: PyMedia-1.2.3.0-pre2 is out
Message-ID: <02d301c4c225$61593030$0200a8c0@amr.corp.intel.com>

Hi all,
Finally I have managed to make a pre-release for version 1.2.3.0

What is it ?
----------------------------------------------------------------
PyMedia is a Python module for avi, mp3, ogg, wma, divx and other media
formats processing.
It is crossplatform and can work on Windows, Linux and cygwin.
PyMedia is based upon the following libraries :
  libavcodec,  libavformat,  libdvdcss, libdvdread

It has simple and yet powerful interface. Check out the tutorial section:
http://pymedia.org/tut/

Features
----------------------------------------------------------------
1. Audio decoding/encoding for the following types:
   - mp2, mp3, ac3, ogg, wma, aac
2. Video decoding/encoding for the following types:
   - mpeg1,2 ( dvd, vcd, svcd ), mpeg4, xvid, asf
3. Video/Audio muxing for mpeg files only
4. Direct access to sound device( Input/Output ). Input is synchronous in
Linux.
5. Sound manipulation classes such as Resampler and SpectrAnalyzer
6. Direct access to cdda tracks for easy grabbing and encoding Audio CDs
7. Direct access to dvd tracks for playing DVD movies( all types )
8. Ability to convert video frames from YUV<->BMP formats
9. Simple interface and portability( Windows/Linux/cygwin )

Changelog
----------------------------------------------------------------
- VFrame has new method: convert(). Allow you to convert it to any other
format( RGB<->YUV )
- resampler works as expected now
- VFrame can be created explicitly( allows to create your own movies from
the set of pics )
- wma can play small chunks
- windows ISound interface get fixed( patch from Raefer Gabriel  )
- windows OSound interface get fixed, no freezing anymore
- windows binary supports MMX optimization( 30% boost )
- audio.muxer has new method mux and flush. To be compatible with every
stream format not only MPEG.
- CLE266 chipset support included for HW DVD playback on Linux with
Directfb/pydfb( experimental ! )
- seeking supported for video/audio
- new Mixer interface
- meta tags for ogg, wma and mp3 can be changed and written back to the file
- aac playback support( experimental ! )

Downoad
----------------------------------------------------------------
Just check the http://pymedia.org and download the latest version
(1.2.3.0-pre2).
You may download Windows binaries as well.

How to use
----------------------------------------------------------------
Please see the tutorial on how to install and use:
http://pymedia.org/tut/

License
----------------------------------------------------------------
At the moment the whole module is GPL because of libdvdread and libdvdcss.
I have plans to make it LGPL eventually.

Enjoy,
Dmitry/



From forget-it at no-spam.com  Sun Nov 21 20:27:33 2004
From: forget-it at no-spam.com (Phillip)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 02:27:33 +0100
Subject: Nagging problem with MySQLdb
Message-ID: <cnrffo$c4s$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi.
I hate the way one has to jump through countless hoops to put data in a 
db and get it out again. The straightforward MySQLdb Interface 
requireing this SQL stuff being a point in case (against SQL and those 
RDBs that is). Since other programms have to access this data I'm forced 
to use a classical DB and actually have managed to set up Mysql and a 
presumably working connection from Python to it.

I've gotten so far as to avoid errors with this sucky SQL language. 
(Guess I've gotten to pampered by Python lately :-) )

However, for about 20 hrs. now I've been trying to write data into an 
existing table. Until now no success. I hope somebody can help me with 
this. Here's the relevant code:

 >>>>>>
...
#Setting up DB connection, initializing DB cursor
elefantDb = MySQLdb.connect(user="runbase",db="elefant")
baseFeed = elefantDb.cursor()

# going through the DictList and adding the
# datasets into the db
for line in sourceLinesDictList:
	# also adding some data for fields that the DB table has but our
	# DictList does't (data01,02,29)
	data01 = 'source-one'
	data02 = '0',
	data03 = line['payments-status'],
	data04 = line['order-id'],
	data05 = line['order-item-id'],
	data06 = line['payments-date'],
	data07 = line['payments-t-id'],
	data08 = line['item-name'],
	data09 = line['listing-id'],
	data10 = line['sku'],
	data11 = float(line['price'].replace(',','.',1)),
	data12 = float(line['shipping-fee'].replace(',','.',1)),
	data13 = line['quantity-purchased'],
	data14 = float(line['total-price'].replace(',','.',1)),
	data15 = line['purchase-date'],
	data16 = int(line['batch-id']),
	data17 = line['buyer-email'],
	data18 = line['buyer-name'],
	data19 = line['recipient-name'],
	data20 = line['ship-address-1'],
	data21 = line['ship-address-2'],
	data22 = line['ship-city'],
	data23 = line['ship-state'],
	data24 = int(line['ship-zip']),
	data25 = line['ship-country'],
	data26 = line['special-comments'],
	data27 = line['upc'],
	data28 = float(line['VAT'].replace(',','.',1)),
	data29 = 'fresh-unassigned'
	
	baseFeed.execute(
		"""INSERT INTO position
		(plattform,
		position_id,
		payments-status,
		order-id,
		order-item-id,
		payments-date,
		payments-t-id,
		item-name,
		listing-id,
		sku,
		price,
		shipping-fee,
		quantity-purchased,
		total-price,
		purchase-date,
		batch-id,
		buyer-email,
		buyer-name,
		recipient-name,
		ship-address-1,
		ship-address-2,
		ship-city,
		ship-state,
		ship-zip,
		ship-country,
		special-comments,
		upc,
		vat,
		elefant-signal)
		VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, 
%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s);"""
		[data01, data02, data03, data04, data05, data06, data07, data08, 
data09, data10, data11, data12, data13, data14, data15, data16, data17, 
data18, data19, data20, data21, data22, data23, data24, data25, data26, 
data27, data28, data29]
	)
<<<<<<

The error I get with this one is:
"TypeError: string indices must be integers"

The other wariant I've tried (using a tuple) with
 >>>>>>
...# the same stuff as above and:
(data01, data02, data03, data04, data05, data06, data07, data08, data09, 
data10, data11, data12, data13, data14, data15, data16, data17, data18, 
data19, data20, data21, data22, data23, data24, data25, data26, data27, 
data28, data29)
<<<<<<

returns:
"TypeError: 'str' object is not callable"

baseFeed.execute() function causing these errors.
I'm totaly void of possible answers now. The problem apparently also 
being scarce and false MySQL and MySQLdb documentation *shrug*.
Can anyone help?
Thanks a lot in advance.

Phillip


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 17 04:30:33 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 01:30:33 -0800
Subject: don't NaN & infinities hide FP errors
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0411170130.31d247@posting.google.com>

Since Python floats are implemented using C doubles, assuming IEEE 754
compliance, certain operations should result in NaN or infinity. Don't
such special values hide errors? Would we want our variables to be in
such states? I feel it would be better if a floating point division by
zero (or other actions that produce NaNs or infinities) throws an
exception, just like an integer divide by zero.

Am I right?


From golux at comcast.net  Sun Nov 14 03:06:26 2004
From: golux at comcast.net (Stephen Waterbury)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 03:06:26 -0500
Subject: .pyc files...
In-Reply-To: <E1CTDp7-00050j-00@galvatron.kickingdragon.com>
References: <E1CTDp7-00050j-00@galvatron.kickingdragon.com>
Message-ID: <41971202.3010006@comcast.net>

Eddie Parker wrote:
> OK, stupid question, but it?s been bothering me for ages.. J
> 
> I love Python to bits, but .pyc files always litter my source tree, and 
> they?ve always bothered me. ...

One solution (on unices, at least):

alias cleanpy="find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm {} ';'"

Run after each test, or when feeling anal.  ;)

Steve


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Sat Nov 20 02:13:05 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:13:05 -0800
Subject: stopping the sound server in PySol code -- how?
In-Reply-To: <iqAnd.69632$SW3.42915@fed1read01>
References: <iqAnd.69632$SW3.42915@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <cnmqq0$l6n$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Lynn wrote:
> I have a SuSe 9.1 linux box (although this isn't a new issue) with
> reasonably up to date everything.  When I run PySol, it grabs the sound
> system in a rude and complete way.  
> 
> I don't listen to sound and I NEED my sound system available even if PySol
> is running.
> 
> Does anyone have a simple way of ripping the sound functionality our of
> PySol?  I've not enough of a python programmer to deal with this.
> Everything I've tried has just generated a ton of errors.

How did you install PySol? RPMs? Is there a PySol-sound package that you 
can choose not to install? If PySol doesn't find its sound support 
module, it won't bother with sound.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From svenn.are at bjerkem.de  Mon Nov  8 17:05:49 2004
From: svenn.are at bjerkem.de (svenn.are at bjerkem.de)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 14:05:49 -0800
Subject: Help on installing PyQt on MacOSX 10.3 needed
Message-ID: <5fb00e69.0411081405.35d40c1b@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I wanted to run a program that is written in PyQt on my mac, and went
over to Riverbank to get PyQ 3.13 and SIP 4.1.1 sources.

I followed the installation guide except for the compiling python as
Macosx already has python.

I had no problem with compiling SIP and also no problem with compiling
PyQt nor did I have any error message during make install.

Now the last step in the install documentation says that I have to
edit several files regarding python itself, and then recompile it.
This is where I got stuck. The mac native python cannot find the
package qt with a import qt command on the commandline, and I have no
experience whatsoever with python.

Maybe somebody has been successful installing PyQt with the native
python in macosx 10.3 and can help me?

-- 
Svenn


From cm012b5105 at blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Nov 28 15:02:08 2004
From: cm012b5105 at blueyonder.co.uk (cm012b5105)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 20:02:08 +0000
Subject: graphics
Message-ID: <200411282002.08826.cm012b5105@blueyonder.co.uk>

i want to write a simple programme to create a box in other words just a 
square so that when some one clicks the icon a square will appear could some 
one help me do this please


From esj at harvee.org  Tue Nov  2 09:09:14 2004
From: esj at harvee.org (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 09:09:14 -0500
Subject: saved sys.path
In-Reply-To: <1gmm44d.3ayblzifiogeN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <%Xmhd.29071$g4.544104@news2.nokia.com>	<1gmkht7.1e1lg86qerk5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.5765.1099319253.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gmlelr.q7q1rz5rc37oN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.5797.1099369171.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmm44d.3ayblzifiogeN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4187950A.3090304@harvee.org>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Eric S. Johansson <esj at harvee.org> wrote:
>    ...
> 
>>file, command_name.path, would contain all of the search as necessary
>>for a command called by the same name.  this technique would allow for a
>>common platform independent method of finding application-specific 
>>modules and automatically generated paths for site-specific 
>>relocation/configuration.
>>
>>As I write this, it occurs to me that a provisional body of code to 
>>experiment with the technique would possibly serve the community well.
>>  I will generate something tomorrow for public scrutiny as I am up past
>>my bedtime.  Thank you for triggering the idea.
> 
> 
> You're welcome.  Implementation should be easy, if you think that
> architecture is sound.  Consider site.py, specifically the end of
> function addsitedir(sitedir), which currently goes:
...

hmm you must have a later bedtime than me. :-) I was thinking a slightly 
different direction in terms of integration etc. but these are good 
ideas too and I will lift with appropriate credits.

> I would suggest .appath or something that stands out more than .path
> which looks too much like .pth -- just IMHO.

true.  I have come to accept the fact that I should never be allowed to 
name anything except the occasional pet.  Personally I preferred an 
extension that is speech recognition friendly since all of these mangled 
names really hurt to type and are incredibly difficult to spell out 
phonetically given current speech recognition accuracy's for nonhuman 
language text sequences.

> As to whether the whole architecture is sound -- I pass.  I'm not sure I
> see why it makes sense to have a foo.appath (or foo.path as you'd want
> it) that presumably gets autoedited during install to contain the
> relevant dirs, rather than just autoedit foo.py, the main script, whose
> purpose should, after all, be exactly to set up the environment
> (sys.path first and foremost) before importing and running the real
> stuff.  The current bar.pth arrangement makes sense exactly because it's
> _not_ tied to apps, but to sites -- where has this site chosen to
> install some backage 'bar' which must be made available for import to
> all scripts running at this site.  An application, as opposed to a
> package, gets to run its own code ("main script") and thus would seem
> not to need such arrangements.

from my perspective, it makes a great deal of sense.  If you are making 
modules for general use, site-packages is a great place to deposit your 
work.  However, if you are building applications which have collections 
of modules that need to be imported, site-packages is not the place to 
put them especially if there is a risk of a namespace collision.

I will confess to not being very familiar with the foo.py model you 
describe and references would be welcome.  my philosophical base is one 
of separation of code and data.  Which means that configuration data 
such as search paths etc. belong "somewhere else".  Also to modify a 
program file even when it does nothing but set up the context, makes me 
really uncomfortable from a environment management and security 
perspective.  That's awfully close to what a worm or a virus would do as 
part of its reproductive imperative.  although, even I would admit that 
a python based worm would probably starve to death...

so anything I can do to keep code static and as identical as possible to 
what was dropped out of darcs yet still be flexible enough to 
accommodate different installation locations, I consider a win.

we have a couple philosophies that work for different people.  It would 
be nice to have enough room to include both.

---eric

PS, here's hoping for a clear regime change here in the states.  Wish us 
luck.



From bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca  Sun Nov  7 02:36:37 2004
From: bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca (Brian van den Broek)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 02:36:37 -0500
Subject: Newsgroup mood [was] why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <418DBAD1.70702@acm.org>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6011.1099764243.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418DBAD1.70702@acm.org>
Message-ID: <418DD085.2080300@po-box.mcgill.ca>

Maurice LING said unto the world upon 2004-11-07 01:04:
>  > 3) Links to threads that answer common questions
> 
>> Yes, there is an FAQ and yet people still ask why Python gets division
>> wrong. But I've often seen people dig up links to threads for questions
>> perhaps not so common to be written up in an FAQ, but perhaps common
>> enough to merit linking on a wiki page. I'm not under the illusion 
>> that it would solve the problem on its own, but it might well head 
>> some repeat questions off. For those it doesn't, it would give an easy 
>> way to answer.
>>
> This may be useful but it will certainly bring us a new set of questions 
> then, in the form of "is this <whatever information> still holds for 
> <some latest version of python>?" Although computer science stems from 
> mathematics, it had lost an important aspect of mathematics, that is, 
> "once proven true is forever true."
> 
> maurice

Dang.

I already suspected that only a minority would check such a
resource. On reflection, I think you are likely correct many of that 
minority would then end up asking the sort of question you indicate. 
That *would* be better, but probably not enough so as to make the effort 
of maintaining the resource seem worth the candle. :-(

Of the 3 parts I posted about, this one was the one I am least able to
do a draft of anyway. I think I will take a go at the other two, though.

Best,

Brian vdB




From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Tue Nov  2 19:16:19 2004
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe Cavalaria)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 01:16:19 +0100
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41882354$0$14963$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Steven Bethard wrote:

> Christophe Cavalaria <chris.cavalaria <at> free.fr> writes:
>> 
>> One could say that the common definition of weakly typed languages
>> cannont apply for a dynamicaly type language. Let's face it, once you've
>> implemented a dynamicaly typed language, it seems very hard to use one
>> piece of data as the wrong type.
> 
> While I agree that it would be kind of foolish to implement a dynamically
> typed language that wasn't strongly-typed (PL theory definition), there's
> no reason you *couldn't* -- your language would just need to provide some
> sort of 'cast' function that did the conversion at runtime.
> 
> For example, say the memory block for an object instance was allocated
> like:
> 
> [0] pointer to class object
> [1] pointer to dictionary object (holding variables)
> 
> Then maybe you could do something like:
>   int1, int2 = cast(object(), list(int))
> Given, I can't see any use for such behavior, but you *could* do it if you
> had a
> weakly-typed dynamic language and you knew how it allocated objects.  At
> some level, you always have bits -- whether it makes any sense to
> reinterpret them depends on exactly what the bits originally meant.

In any good dynamicaly typed language, the object must know what it is thus
there is no way to do a reinterpret_cast like in C or C++. It is
meaningless. Doing it anyway is insane as you have pointed. It's only goal
beeing to add in the flaws of the weakly static typed languages to a
contrived example.

>> What we can do is extend the definition of weakly typed language to
>> something like : "A weakly typed language is a language that often uses
>> incorectly some piece of data by applying to it the wrong type" Such
>> definition would include any language that is too liberal with the type
>> coertion like php.
> 
> Don't get me wrong -- I do understand your point.  In every case I can
> think of, there is no reason to want weak-typing (PL theory definition) in
> a
> dynamically-typed language.  On the other hand, I haven't really seen any
> good cases for wanting weak-typing in a statically-typed language either.
> 
> Note that PHP doesn't fit your definition above anyway.  When PHP allows:
> 
> "a" + 10 == 10
> 
> it's not incorrectly using "some piece of data by applying to it the wrong
> type".  It's doing exactly what it tells you it'll do.  This is *correct*
> response given the PHP language definition.

Incorrectly is a view of the mind in that case. From my point of view it is
incorrect. And you could argue that taking a float * and casting it into a
int * gives us a predictable behaviour. It'll still be wrong to do it
unless it was exactly what you wanted to do. And in that case you can
create explicit language constructs to do the trick.

> In addition, you *can* create a statically-typed language that is strongly
> typed
> (PL theory definition) but also very liberal with type coercion.  What
> would you
> call such a language?  Since being liberal with type coercion and allowing
> bit reinterpretation are orthogonal, why not keep the two separate terms?
> 
> My issue here is that I don't think we should confuse an already easily
> confused
> term by giving it a second meaning.

I see your point but I must add that I wasn't giving that term a second
meaning. Just like in mathematics when you take a theory and you create a
new theory that encompases the old one, I was giving a new definition for
the term.

> If there aren't any dynamically typed 
> languages that are also weakly-typed, that's ok -- it doesn't mean we
> should change the meaning of "weakly-typed" for these languages.
> 
> Steve



From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Fri Nov 26 18:56:28 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 00:56:28 +0100
Subject: Number of colors in an image
In-Reply-To: <uekigxnj7.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
References: <mailman.6820.1101494223.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<uekigxnj7.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <1804107377.20041127005628@geochemsource.com>

Hello David,

Friday, November 26, 2004, 11:18:04 PM, you wrote:


> For example, for an RGB image:

>     import sys
>     from PIL import Image
>     from itertools import izip, repeat

>     if __name__ == "__main__":

>         im = Image.open(sys.argv[1])
>         r = im.getdata(0)
>         g = im.getdata(1)
>         b = im.getdata(2)
>         print 'Number of colors =', len(colors)

Thank you, this was very helpful. I'll try to use this one instead of
ImageMagick. (The identify program does not work in some cases...)

-- 
Best regards,
 Laszlo

mailto:gandalf at geochemsource.com
web:http://designasign.biz




From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Tue Nov 23 02:48:52 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 07:48:52 GMT
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<4195419b.303035081@news.oz.net>
	<slrncpgm80.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6381.1100534178.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpjcga.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6465.1100663898.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpmejc.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6506.1100723876.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<m37jodv5vk.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <slrncq5qr4.61m.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-11-22, Michael Hudson schreef <mwh at python.net>:
> I'm not really reading comp.lang.python at the moment, but found this
> thread via the Python-URL...
>
> Tim Peters <tim.peters at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> The only currently active contributor I can think of who cares about
>> signals enough to actually work on them is Michael Hudson, but his
>> interest seems limited to keeping the interactions been Python's GNU
>> readline wrapper and signals working across incompatible details of
>> signal semantics on Unixish boxes.  It's possible I'm wrong, and he'd
>> really love to work much more on signals, but feels inhibited by
>> Guido's well-known dislike of the beasts.
>
> I think you're more or less right.  A couple of years ago I got pretty
> badly discouraged attempting to support sigprocmask and friends from
> Python, and came to conclusion that noone who cares about portability
> -- not just no Python programmers, but *noone at all* -- mixes threads
> and signals, because the cross platform behaviour is a total mess, and
> in many cases is just plain buggy (I believe the FreeBSD version of
> libc_r for 5.something contains a fix that is a direct consequence of
> my efforts, for example).  Even linking with the threading libraries
> was enough to stuff things up mightily in some circumstances.
>
> We Do Not Want To Go There.

Well for the moment I don't care about portability that much. I do
understand this is a big issue for something in the standard library
and with your remarks consider my question in the subject answered
with no.

I do think it is a pity that the crossplatform behaviour is such a
total mess but for the moment that can't be helped.

I'll just experiment a bit my self on the boxes I'm interested in.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From arambo314 at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 18 12:53:28 2004
From: arambo314 at hotmail.com (Arthur Rambo)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 09:53:28 -0800
Subject: Newbie:  Python & ADFGVX Cipher Cracking?
References: <4mJmd.1242$Tq6.565@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cnfoj7$fpq$1@news.mch.sbs.de> <301m1mF2ptcjrU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<cnhsjd$t3a$1@news.mch.sbs.de> <303c4qF2q6ibpU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <533e1e03.0411180953.1f73dec3@posting.google.com>

The following solution is far better (based on a generator):

def xpermutations(objects):
    """A generator that returns the complete set of permutations of a
list of objects"""
    
    if objects==[]: yield []
    else:
        l=len(objects)
        for i in xrange(l):
            for cc in xpermutations(objects[:i]+objects[i+1:]):
                yield [objects[i]]+cc

>>> for p in xpermutations(['A','B','C']):
... 	print p
... 	
['A', 'B', 'C']
['A', 'C', 'B']
['B', 'A', 'C']
['B', 'C', 'A']
['C', 'A', 'B']
['C', 'B', 'A']

Derived from Python cookbook:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/190465

Arthur


From Python at IvoNet.nl  Thu Nov 11 13:02:51 2004
From: Python at IvoNet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:02:51 +0100
Subject: ConfigParser
References: <nrr3p0d03b1p2pcvk7irgbm1k0nurndehj@4ax.com>
	<35t4p0lou2lmcigaj2ic1fv9b253d5nq6k@4ax.com>
	<wAvkd.4386$pu3.3613@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <37a7p09upup9ltsthd601l2cl8garmbdr1@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:18:20 GMT, "Paul McGuire"
<ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com> wrote:

>"Ivo Woltring" <Python at IvoNet.nl> wrote in message
>news:35t4p0lou2lmcigaj2ic1fv9b253d5nq6k at 4ax.com...
>> <snip>
>> ...the whole question is mute ;-))
>>
>> Ivo.
>
>The word you are looking for is "moot", not "mute" - this is actually a
>common word misuse (known as a "malapropism") even for native English
>speakers.  :)
>
>Pedantical-ly yours,
>-- Paul
>

Thanks for the English lesson. I am not a native English though. I'm
Dutch. 



From vinay_sajip at red-dove.com  Thu Nov  4 06:30:40 2004
From: vinay_sajip at red-dove.com (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:30:40 +0000
Subject: ANN: New configuration module released
In-Reply-To: <8ef9bea6.0411040059.664631bc@posting.google.com>
References: <2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840@posting.google.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0411040059.664631bc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <418A12E0.8000607@red-dove.com>

Hung Jung Lu wrote:
> I know you probably want a lot of features, but then different people
> want different things. What a person considers necessary, others may
> find them unnecessary, and vice versa.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'lots of features'. Primarily, I wanted 
better ease of use than ConfigParser gives me for medium-complexity 
configurations.

> 
> Microsoft went from .INI files to Windows registry, and now to
> XML-based app.config files in the .NET world. I know app.config files
> are not the best thing with the cleanest format, but, why re-invent
> the wheel?

Microsoft did. You may remember, when the registry first appeared in 
Windows, many viewed it as some kind of panacea - it's the same thing 
now with .NET configuration files. Do you really believe that they are 
the last word in application configuration? I don't. Of course, they are 
quite usable, and have a lot of momentum since anything done by 
Microsoft does, but that's hardly a reason for people to stop trying 
alternative approaches.

> Microsoft's XML-based app.config is guaranteed to be widely used. For
> something as minor as configuration files, for people that juggle
> between many programming languages, I guess it's an OK solution.
> I know many people may not like the XML overhead, I know many people
> don't like Microsoft. But when you have to use hierarchical
> configuration files across many programming languages, I don't know
> any format out there that can compete with app.config. To me, the war
> is already over.

Which war would that be? Horses for courses, of course. XML is 
technically suitable, and the .NET System.Configuration format will seem 
like a de facto standard for many people. I've used it myself on many a 
.NET project. (Normally, end users are not expected to edit these 
configuration files, as they are XML tyros and moreover, cannot be 
expected to understand the System.Configuration schema.)

If you'd rather use the .NET format for your Python application 
configuration, fine!

Best wishes,


Vinay Sajip


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Nov 22 13:37:44 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:37:44 GMT
Subject: [Beginner] delete items of [] also from memory
In-Reply-To: <41a1e794$0$29887$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
References: <cns50t$5ip$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<41a1a1da$0$8190$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<cnsgm1$u3f$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<41a1e794$0$29887$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <Ylqod.136320$R05.70310@attbi_s53>

F. Petitjean wrote:
> What about   A[:] = None  ?

I don't think that does what you want it to:

 >>> a = [None]*100
 >>> a[:] = None
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: can only assign an iterable

Steve


From jhujsak at neotopica.com  Tue Nov 16 18:13:53 2004
From: jhujsak at neotopica.com (Jon)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 15:13:53 -0800
Subject: Yet Another BLT/TkInter Install Question
Message-ID: <51e59f27.0411161513.1afffa2e@posting.google.com>

Hi All,

I'm running ActiveState Python 2.3.4 and I'm trying to figure
out how to install BLT so that I can add PMW widgets. No matter
how or where I try to install it I still get:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "HelloUser.py", line 225, in ?
    g = Pmw.Blt.Graph(master)
  File "/usr/local/python/lib/python2.3/site-packages/Pmw/Pmw_1_2/lib/PmwBlt.py"
, line 260, in __init__
    Tkinter.Widget.__init__(self, master, _graphCommand, cnf, kw)
  File "/usr/local/python/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 1835, in __init

on trying to run the HelloUser.py PMW example. From a past post I
gather this indicates BLT is not installed correctly.

Does anyone know what the required BLT configure options are
for an ActiveState install?

Thanks!

--Jon


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  6 02:12:10 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 08:12:10 +0100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
Message-ID: <1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Hans Nowak <hans at zephyrfalcon.org> wrote:

> John Machin wrote:
> 
> > Or is this a joke/troll?? I can't believe the "unimelb.edu.au"; surely
> > a forgery.
> 
> Is it just me, or is the climate in c.l.py getting less friendly to 
> newbies?  In any case, 

Interestingly enough, I sort of share your perception -- and I have
noticed the same thing, and seen it remarked upon by others, in other,
completely unrelated newsgroups as well, such as it.comp.macintosh.

It's not, I think, about newbies in general: people who come and post
help requests, without giving the information that's quite obviously
indispensabile to let us help them, keep getting treated with
unreasonable amounts of friendliness and courtesy even after many
requests for more info go unheeded, for example.

However, newbies who are clueless enough to come blasting in with the
usual whines we've heard a zillion times -- Macs cost too much, Python
is too slow, there's no apps for Macs, Python must absolutely add
feature X or it will die, Apple's gonna go broke tomorrow, etc, etc --
do appear to get on our collective nerves worse than their essentially
indistinguishable precursors did last year, two years ago, &c.

The accusation of being a troll often follows, breaking the old advice
to "Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by
incompetence".  Maybe it's a case of the corollary to that old advice,
"Sufficiently advanced cluelessness is indistinguishable from malice".
But why that should be so this year more than last year, say, is not
clear to me...


Alex


From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Tue Nov  2 04:51:53 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 09:51:53 GMT
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<uef2o0dkckqmnifgpt78n3sg8ai6a1g05c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrncoem5p.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>

>  You didn't mention C++. Try this ...
>  
>     std::string s = "Wow";
>     s += 3.141592654; // Perfectly valid
>     s = 3.141592654;  // Also valid

ah, good example.

So, would it be valid to say:
the more coercion (or automatic conversion) rules a language has, the
weaker the typing?

Best regards,
Gabriel.

-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| There are works which wait,                                             |
| and which one does not understand for a long time; [...]                |
| for the question often arrives a terribly long time after the answer.   |
|                                                         (Oscar Wilde)   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From dochtman at cs.vu.nl  Wed Nov  3 03:41:11 2004
From: dochtman at cs.vu.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 09:41:11 +0100
Subject: Should I learn Python?
In-Reply-To: <624a388a.0411021328.5ac41f4c@posting.google.com>
References: <624a388a.0411021328.5ac41f4c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cma5d4$4sr$1@star.cs.vu.nl>

> 1. What can I do with Python that I can't do with php? 

Python is a much cleaner. Its design was well thought-out, with very 
good support of OOP (something which has been problematic in PHP 4). 
Also, several features in Python make sure you write clean code with it, 
something that is very much lacking in PHP. Finally, the library in 
Python is cleanly separated and easily extensible.

> 2. Do you use both PHP and Python in conjunction with each other?

I've used PHP a lot, but I'm currently moving all development effort to 
Python. For some projects, I think combined use could be useful (e.g. to 
setup a web service of which one side is easier to do in Python, while 
the other side would be easier to do in PHP).

> 3. In what way could I utilize Python to compliment existing sites or
> apps built with PHP?

This depends on the way your applications are written. My PHP 
applications are always embedded in a framework I wrote myself, and this 
would make it hard to effectively extend the application in Python.

Regards,

Dirkjan


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Tue Nov  9 05:24:01 2004
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 10:24:01 GMT
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmgcp1$hpk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncong4u.1tk.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmggel$t2o$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cmggh2$t2o$01$2@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5996.1099739023.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmil81$184$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<GW9jd.20763$K7.6442@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<slrncouq2h.mcv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <5V0kd.30218$K7.5461@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Gabriel Zachmann:
> >     The layout is also modified by various compiler options.
>
> really? that would mean that c++ libs themselves are
> not binary compatible among each other?

   I was thinking in terms of Microsoft C++ options like the vtordisp
setting used to handle virtual inheritance (/vd0 or /vd1), pointer to member
representation (/vm*), and the old favourite struct alignment (/Zp*).
Borland adds options for allowing small enumerations to take only one byte
(-b-), zero size empty base classes (-Ve), zero size empty members (-Vx),
and a layout compatible with old compiler versions (-Vl).

   Much of the time C++ code only has to be compatible with the other
modules it is delivered with. So long as all the modules use the same
compiler flags, this will be achieved.

   Neil




From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Sat Nov  6 10:51:28 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 6 Nov 2004 07:51:28 -0800
Subject: CGIs and file exclusion
References: <2uvedvF2g1pv3U1@uni-berlin.de>	<6f402501.0411050228.aea8068@posting.google.com>	<4edc17eb.0411052049.7df47379@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5991.1099723629.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0411060751.280dbdf6@posting.google.com>

Tim Peters <tim.peters at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.5991.1099723629.5135.python-list at python.org>...

> What you got above is
> a "write conflict error", and is normal behavior.  What happens:
> 
> - Process A loads revision n of some particular object O.
> - Process B loads the same revision n of O.
> - Process A modifies O, creating revision n+1.
> - Process A commits its change to O.  Revsion n+1 is then current.
> - Process B modifies O, creating revision n+2.
> - Process B *tries* to commit its change to O.
> 
> The implementation of commit() investigates, and effectively says
> "Hmm.  Process B started with revision n of O, but revision n+1 is
> currently committed.  That means B didn't *start* with the currently
> committed revision of O, so B has no idea what might have happened in
> revision n+1 -- B may be trying to commit an insane change as a
> result.  Can't let that happen, so I'll raise ConflictError".  That
> line of argument makes a lot more sense if more than one object is
> involved, but maybe it's enough to hint at the possible problems.
> 
> Anyway, since your store() method always picks on the root object,
> you're going to get ConflictErrors frequently.  It's bad application
> design for a ZODB/ZEO app to have a "hot spot" like that.
> 
> In real life, all ZEO apps, and all multithreaded ZODB apps, always do
> their work inside try/except structures.  When a conflict error
> occurs, the except clause catches it, and generally tries the
> transaction again.  In your code above, that isn't going to work well,
> because there's a single object that's modified by every transaction
> -- it will be rare for a commit() attempt not to give up with a
> conflict error.
> 
> Perhaps paradoxically, it can be easier to get a real ZEO app working
> well than one's first overly simple attempts -- ZODB effectively
> *wants* you to scribble all over the database.

Ok, I understand what you are saying, but I do not understand how would I
solve the problem. This is interesting to me since it has to do with a real
application I am working on. Maybe I should give the framework.

We have an application where the users can interact with the system via
a Web interface (developed in Zope/Plone by other people) and via email. I am
doing the email part. We want the email part to be independent from the
Zope part, since it must act also as a safety belt (i.e. even if the Zope 
server is down for any reason the email part must continue to work).

Moreover, people with slow connections can prefer the email interface
over the Zope/Plone interface which is pretty heavyweight. So, it must be
there. We do expect to have few emails coming in (<100 per hour) so I just 
modified /etc/aliases and each mail is piped to a simple Python script which 
parses it and stores the relevant information (who sent the email, the date, 
the content, etc.).

Input coming via email or via the web interface should go into
the same database. Since we are using Zope anyway and there is no
much writing to do, we thought to use the ZODB and actually ZEO to
keep it independent from the main Zope instance. We could use another
database if needed, but we would prefer to avoid additional dependencies
and installation issues.

The problem is that occasionally two emails (or an email and a web submission)
can arrive at the same time. At the moment I just catch the error and send
back an email saying "Sorry, there was an internal error. Please retry later".
This is rare but it happened during the testing phase. I would rather avoid
that. I thought about catching the exception and waiting a bit before retrying,
but I am not completely happy with that; I also tried a hand-coded solution 
involving a lock file but if was not 100% reliable. So I ask here if the ZODB 
has some smart way to solve that, or if it is possible to change the design in 
such a way to avoid those concurrency issues as much as possible.

Another concern of mine is security. What happens if a maliciuous user
sends 10000 emails at the same time? Does the mail server (can be postfix or
exim4) spawn tons of processes until we run out of memory and the server
crashes? How would I avoid that? I can think of various hackish solutions but I
would like something reliable.

Any hints? Suggestions?

Thanks,


  Michele Simionato


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Nov 16 13:55:20 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:55:20 +0100
Subject: determining the number of output arguments
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<cndbi7$hrd$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<pan.2004.11.16.23.05.58.264322@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <cndicj$r8g$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Jeremy Bowers wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:58:52 +0100, Peter Otten wrote:
>> You could yield Indent/Dedent (possibly the same class) instances
>> whenever the level changes - provided that the length of sequences of
>> nodes with the same depth does not approach one.
> 
> In this case, the depth of the node is multiplied by some indentation
> parameter, or some similar operation, and it occurs in three or places, so
> the duplication of the
> 
> if token == INDENT:
> depth += 1
> elif token == DEDENT:
> depth -= 1
> if depth == 0:
> abort or something
> 
> three or four times was starting to smell itself.

I guess I don't understand, so I wrote a simple example:


DEDENT = object()
INDENT = object()

def _walk(items):
    for item in items:
        if isinstance(item, list):
            yield INDENT
            for child in _walk(item):
                yield child
            yield DEDENT
        else:
            yield item

class Tree(object):
    def __init__(self, data):
        self.data = data
    def __iter__(self):
        for item in _walk(self.data):
            yield item

class WalkBase(object):
    def __call__(self, tree):
        dispatch = {
            DEDENT: self.dedent, 
            INDENT: self.indent
        }
        default = self.default
        for item in tree:
            dispatch.get(item, default)(item)

class PrintIndent(WalkBase):
    def __init__(self):
        self._indent = ""
    def indent(self, node):
        self._indent += "    "
    def dedent(self, node):
        self._indent = self._indent[:-4]
    def default(self, node):
        print self._indent, node
                    
class PrintXml(WalkBase):
    def indent(self, node):
        print "<node>"
    def dedent(self, node):
        print "</node>"
    def default(self, node):
        print "<leaf>%s</leaf>" % node
    def __call__(self, tree):
        print "<tree>"
        super(PrintXml, self).__call__(tree)
        print "</tree>"

if __name__ == "__main__":
    tree = Tree([
        0,
        [1, 2, 3],
        [4, 
            [5, 6, 7],
            [8, [9, 10]]],
        [11],
        12
    ])
    for i, Class in enumerate([PrintIndent, PrintXml]):
        print "%d " % i * 5
        Class()(tree)
          
        
I think taking actions on indent/dedent "events" is easier and simpler than
keeping track of a numerical depth value, and at least the PrintXml example
would become more complicated if you wanted to infer the beginning/end of a
level from the change in the depth.
I do check the depth level twice (isinstance(item, list) and
dispatch.get()), but I think the looser coupling is worth it.
If you are looking for the cool version of such a dispatch mechanism, 
Phillip J. Eby's article

http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/VisitorRevisited

(found in the Daily Python URL) might be interesting.

Peter






            


From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Wed Nov 17 14:21:31 2004
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:21:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: thread, threading; how to kill a thread?
References: <m37jokwiqj.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
Message-ID: <cng8br$hif$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Jerry Sievers <jerry at jerrysievers.com> wrote:
> Greetings Pythonists;

> I have limited experience with threaded apps and plenty with old style
> forked heavyweight multi-processing apps.

> Using Python 2.3.3 on a Redhat 7.x machine.

> Wondering if there is a simple way from a main python program to kill
> a running thread?

Sort of.  You can send a unix signal to the main thread (it causes an
exception which you can catch).  But as others have and will surely
point out, it's usually better to have your thread occasionally check
whether it should die, so it doesn't leave anything in a bad state.


From drlinux at columbus.rr.com  Mon Nov 29 15:15:29 2004
From: drlinux at columbus.rr.com (Dave Reed)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:15:29 -0500
Subject: Protecting Python source
In-Reply-To: <41ab74f4$0$85031$a1866201@visi.com>
References: <f4a45085.0411260701.5859bf43@posting.google.com>
	<cofrqd$1d5$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<41ab74f4$0$85031$a1866201@visi.com>
Message-ID: <200411291515.29610.drlinux@columbus.rr.com>

On Monday 29 November 2004 14:13, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2004-11-29, Peter Maas <peter at somewhere.com> wrote:
> 
> > If the "reverse engineering" argument boils down to "protecting 
source
> > doesn't make sense" then why does Microsoft try so hard to  protect
> > its sources?
> 
> To avoid embarassment.

+1 QOTW



From drew at gremlinhosting.com  Sat Nov 20 09:02:02 2004
From: drew at gremlinhosting.com (Andrew James)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:02:02 +0000
Subject: Reading Formatted Text File
In-Reply-To: <20041120133402.12675.qmail@web14026.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041120133402.12675.qmail@web14026.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1100959322.10554.4.camel@odin>

Kevin,
There was an article on parser generators in this mailing list a couple
of days ago - given the relative complexity of the format you've shown
below you might try simple regex matching but only if you know all the
input is valid.

Some places you might want to look:
http://christophe.delord.free.fr/soft/tpg/ - Parser generator
http://dparser.sourceforge.net/ - Another parser generator (both are
excellent)

And, of course, diveintopython's most excellent regular expression
tutorial:

http://www.diveintopython.org/regular_expressions/index.html

Hope this helps!

Regards,
Andrew


On Sat, 2004-11-20 at 05:34 -0800, Kevin McBrearty wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> I'm trying to read a formatted text of strings and
> floats.  I have looked through previous posts and
> couldn't deciper a good method.  I'm new to python so
> any suggestions would be helpful.
> 
> Regards,
>         Kevin
> 
> solid SIMPLEBLOCK
>   facet normal 0.000000e+00 0.000000e+00 -1.000000e+00
>     outer loop
>       vertex 1.000000e+00 -1.000000e+00 0.000000e+00
>       vertex -1.000000e+00 -1.000000e+00 0.000000e+00
>       vertex -1.000000e+00 1.000000e+00 0.000000e+00
>     endloop
>   endfacet
> 
> 
> 		
> __________________________________ 
> Do you Yahoo!? 
> The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! 
> http://my.yahoo.com 
> 
> 
-- 
Andrew James <drew at gremlinhosting.com>



From exarkun at divmod.com  Tue Nov  9 22:22:22 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 03:22:22 GMT
Subject: property for class objects
In-Reply-To: <hqfkd.70955$QQ5.1442950@weber.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <20041110032222.20649.438868458.divmod.quotient.1190@ohm>

On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 21:54:50 -0500, Steve Menard <foo at bar.com> wrote:
>As par of JPype, I find that I have to brifge Java static members into 
> class attributes.
> 
> I am using a metaclass to dynamically create a Python class for every 
> Java type encountered. Instance variables were handled by adding a 
> property(get, set) to the class's dictionary.
> 
> Now static members are giving me a headache. I cannot use "property" for 
> them, because properties are for instances only.
> 
> What I am currently doing is adding a __getattr__ and a __setattr__ 
> methods to the metaclass, which is called when a class attribute is 
> requested but not found in the class' dict.
> 
> This works fine exact it does not walk the inheritance tree to find 
> static members defined in base classes. I am currently adding up all the 
> names in every class. This "works", however it is misleading when you do 
> a dir() of the class.
> 
> Does anyone have an idea how to implement "classproperty" ?

  How about this?

    exarkun at boson:~$ python
    Python 2.3.4 (#2, Sep 24 2004, 08:39:09) 
    [GCC 3.3.4 (Debian 1:3.3.4-12)] on linux2
    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> class x(type):
    ...     def get_y(self):
    ...             return 'y on', self
    ...     def set_y(self, value):
    ...             print 'y on', self, 'is now', value
    ...     y = property(get_y, set_y)
    ... 
    >>> class z(object):
    ...         __metaclass__ = x
    ... 
    >>> z.y
    ('y on', <class '__main__.z'>)
    >>> z.y = 'foo'
    y on <class '__main__.z'> is now foo
    >>> 

  If not, how is what you are looking for different?

  Jp


From bokr at oz.net  Sat Nov 13 10:40:40 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 15:40:40 GMT
Subject: permuting letters and fairy tales
References: <67lld8kr76.fsf@aster.homelinux.net>
	<41957f26.318790786@news.oz.net> <4195b412.332338677@news.oz.net>
	<41960db9$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <419623d3.360947044@news.oz.net>

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 08:40:24 -0500, Kent Johnson <kent3737 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>Bengt Richter wrote:
>> But it does bring up a general problem of final logic in an iter loop. ISTM it could
>> be useful to have an option not to raise StopIteration, but instead keep returning
>> a specified sentinel at the end, something like file.read returns '' repeatedly at EOF.
>
> From the itertools examples:
> >>> def padnone(seq):
>...     "Returns the sequence elements and then returns None indefinitely"
>...     return chain(seq, repeat(None))
>
Thanks for shaming me into refreshing my acquaintance with the itertools module ;-)
It really deserves to be more than an acquaintance.  It's surprising that itertools
doesn't show up in posted solutions more (Alex's notwithstanding ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Nov 26 23:51:26 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:51:26 -0800
Subject: I Need a Python Mentor
In-Reply-To: <co4lkl$8i9$1@news.swman.net.uk>
References: <co4lkl$8i9$1@news.swman.net.uk>
Message-ID: <41a81a7b$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

abhay wrote:
> .... I'm seeking for a good programming project to be implemented in
> python. Do you have any projects to share, I'm ready to spend my free time
> over it to learn the best.

Let us know what fascinates or obsesses you; these subjects are fertile
sources for projects.  It always helps if the subject itself holds the
student's interest.

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From pwatson at redlinepy.com  Sat Nov 27 13:01:43 2004
From: pwatson at redlinepy.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:01:43 -0600
Subject: ctypes 0.9.2 released
References: <mailman.5628.1098988697.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xkvhsm7y3umz.fsf@cisco.com>
	<1gmeuqj.1p0mkh41y1zvfcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<just-C3A00C.09382029102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
	<du7d5z1fx08.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<just-D2DC45.16465829102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.5673.1099074514.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<mzy58j41.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <30rtokF349078U1@uni-berlin.de>

"Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> wrote in message 
news:mzy58j41.fsf at python.net...
> Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> writes:
>
>> Just wrote:
>>>>One of the perceived strengths of Python is the fact that it
>>>>integrates well with the platforms it is running on, so it's not an
>>>>insulated box like Java.
>>> Another one of Pythons perceived strengths is that if you get a
>>> segfault, it's a bug in Python. With ctypes that will no longer be
>>> as clear.
>>
>> It's always been the case that C extensions can cause segfaults.  This
>> is just a tool for incorporating C extensions, without writing any
>> extra C.  It even says "c" right in the name, which should cause a
>> certain amount of (justified) fear for anyone who knows what that
>> means ;)
>>
>> Having ctypes in the stdlib would be cool, because it would mean that
>> many C library extension could be installed with no compilation step,
>> since ctypes would already be compiled as part of the default
>> install. Assuming the C library was already installed, but typically C
>> libraries get packaged for distribution long before the associated
>> Python extension is packaged.
>
> Of course I think that ctypes in the standard lib would be great, but I
> won't try to push this myself anymore.  I tried several times in the
> past, and have failed miserably (at least that's how I feel).
>
> Thomas

The question at hand is "what is the alternative?"  Will the user 
(developer) need to write code and acquire a compiler?  Will that reduce the 
probability of a segfault on the Python project?

Also, it is much easier to push an application into an enterprise when 
everything comes in one kit.  Those who do not know and are making the 
decisions return nothing but "NO WAY" when a developer says that we just 
need to download something on the Internet...  And the discussion ends. 
What does the developer do then? 




From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 04:46:47 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 07:46:47 -0200
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.24.07.36.24.700146@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.23.07.09.08.229463@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<zn18e7pm.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.24.07.36.24.700146@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <864d37090411240146489ad69e@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 07:36:26 +0000, Paul Robson
<autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:35:01 +0000, Lenard Lindstrom wrote:
> 
> >> I bought a copy of this in I reckon about 1986ish. Visual Basic debuted in
> >> 1991.
> >
> > I would hope that a rewrite of Claim-2 of the patent is required before the patent
> > is accept (if it is not outright rejected). Claim-2 is too vague to be meaningful.
> > Proper definitions of "BASIC" and "derived" are missing. I imaging the patent is
> > intended to protect Visual Basic.NET rather than restrict unrelated languages
> > like Delphi and Python anyways.
> 
> It's blatantly obvious to me that the C# classes, ASP.NET etc. are knock
> offs of the Delphi design. They also bear little resemblance beyond the
> most basic syntactic stuff to VB6.0 let alone VB1.0

I think that Delphi is *so* underated when it comes to language &
framework design... Delphi suffered from a couple of problems; first,
it was Pascal's child, and not C; also, because it was a proprietary
project, owned by a single company.

For some reason, being a Pascal descendant was regarded as a big "no"
by a huge part of the industry, not to mention academia, that was at
that time fascinated with the prospect of C++. I wonder what could
have happened if Delphi (maybe with another name -- P++ anyone?) was
widely adopted instead of C++ for big projects...

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From sjmaster at gmail.com  Mon Nov 15 18:55:35 2004
From: sjmaster at gmail.com (SM)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 15:55:35 -0800
Subject: How to load new class definitions at runtime?
References: <mailman.6287.1100207213.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gn8ja3.7d3sbhuk94khN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6542462a.0411151555.5fe41de4@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1gn8ja3.7d3sbhuk94khN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> If you need [classes] to be _updatable_ at runtime, look at a recipe by
> Michael Hudson in the cookbook -- I've updated it for the printed
> version 2nd ed (since we do have __subclasses__ now, yay!) but that's
> not done yet.  My vote for most useful custom metaclasses ever...

That recipe is here:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/160164

Is it correct that this metaclass solution does not handle changes to
__init__, including new attributes that are bound there? I.e., it
basically only deals with modification or addition or deletion of
methods; if you need to add new attributes or have any other new code
in __init__, you'll have to make new instances for all the old
instances, or deal with it some other way. In which case would you be
better off just using that other way from the start?


From mfuhr at fuhr.org  Thu Nov 18 10:02:36 2004
From: mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 08:02:36 -0700
Subject: Python client lib for PostgreSQL8
References: <cni6e4$dl9$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <419cb98c$1_3@omega.dimensional.com>

Peter Maas <peter at somewhere.com> writes:

> I just tried to connect to a PostgreSQL8 beta2 database server with
> pyPgSQL 2.4 and got a libpq.DatabaseError telling "Ivalid format for
> PgVersion construction".

This bug was reported over three months ago:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1006782&group_id=16528&atid=116528

> Is there already a PyPgSQL version in CVS or another client library
> that handles PostgreSQL 8?

A lot of people like psycopg.

http://initd.org/software/initd/psycopg

-- 
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/


From foo at bar.com  Tue Nov  9 21:54:50 2004
From: foo at bar.com (Steve Menard)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 21:54:50 -0500
Subject: property for class objects
Message-ID: <hqfkd.70955$QQ5.1442950@weber.videotron.net>

As par of JPype, I find that I have to brifge Java static members into 
class attributes.

I am using a metaclass to dynamically create a Python class for every 
Java type encountered. Instance variables were handled by adding a 
property(get, set) to the class's dictionary.

Now static members are giving me a headache. I cannot use "property" for 
them, because properties are for instances only.

What I am currently doing is adding a __getattr__ and a __setattr__ 
methods to the metaclass, which is called when a class attribute is 
requested but not found in the class' dict.

This works fine exact it does not walk the inheritance tree to find 
static members defined in base classes. I am currently adding up all the 
names in every class. This "works", however it is misleading when you do 
a dir() of the class.

Does anyone have an idea how to implement "classproperty" ?

Thanks in advance for any help,

Steve


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 02:41:47 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 07:41:47 GMT
Subject: Python code and C code in the same module?
Message-ID: <%uVqd.112242$V41.104378@attbi_s52>

I'd like to merge a module written in C with a module written in Python 
so that the user can access objects from either module by importing the 
single, merged module.

Specifically, I'm looking at the collections module, which is written in 
C, and my Bunch object, which is written in Python.  I'd like the Bunch 
object to appear in the collections module so that you can do:

     from collections import Bunch

without, of course, removing the ability to do:

     from collections import deque

There's no need for the code to reside in the same file or anything of 
course -- I just want the different objects to appear in the same module.

Thanks,

Steve


From mwm at mired.org  Fri Nov 19 12:03:46 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:03:46 -0600
Subject: distutils setup.cfg question.
References: <x7ekiqlcj0.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<419d906c$0$143$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <x76541lqj1.fsf@guru.mired.org>

"Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> writes:

> Mike Meyer wrote:
>> Ok, I give up. I searched the CVS code, and can't find the place that
>> turns an include_dirs option in setup.cfg into a list of
>> directories. The reason I was looking for it is that I can't figure
>> out how to make include_dirs include multiple directories from
>> setup.cfg. Everything I try winds up putting
>> -I<contents_of_include_dirs>. I couldn't even find the place where the
>> string value that is returned by ConfigParser is enclosed in a list.
>
> % grep include_dirs *.py */*.py
>
> This gives a long list. However, in two places, include_dirs is split:
> command/config.py:            self.include_dirs =
> string.split(self.include_dirs, os.pathsep)
> command/build_ext.py:            self.include_dirs =
> string.split(self.include_dirs, os.pathsep)

That's the code I was missing. And I missed it because I wasn't
looking in subdirectories (duh).

> Both places have similar code:
>
>          if self.include_dirs is None:
>              self.include_dirs = self.distribution.include_dirs or []
>          elif type(self.include_dirs) is StringType:
>              self.include_dirs = string.split(self.include_dirs, os.pathsep)

That helps immensely. But it seems to make setup.cfg non-portable, in
that you have to change the path separator in it to the one for the
platform you are on. I guess that since editing setup.cfg is expected,
that's not to bad.

Next question: I'd like to submit a bug report and patch for the
documentation of distutils. Where do I get copies of the source to
work on?

     Thanks,
     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov  1 15:36:06 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 20:36:06 GMT
Subject: List problem
References: <1gmjqh9.oialil1r1xwffN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41858eaa.1299498379@news.oz.net>
	<mailman.5750.1099297311.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41860f36.1328806672@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 00:13:18 -0700, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

>
>bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>
>>  delsome_br
>>  3.39048024526
>>  3.63548729364
>>  3.6326486655
>>  delsome_am
>>  6.40547292869
>>  6.32403355062
>>  6.21752171923
>
>FYI: list comprehensions in 2.4 are significantly faster than list
>comprehensions in 2.3, which is likely where a large portion of your
>difference is coming from.
>
Sounds reasonable.

>I wasn't sure that I believed your statements in regards to Python's
>cache performance, so I thought I'd give it a look...
I'm not sure which statements you are referring to, but if it's about
bad jobsharing between multiple processors, I don't think that's what's
causing the result you get below. I get a similar slowdown after shuffling.

I would guess only one of your processors is really doing the work of the
interpreter, and the other mostly idling and taking care of i/o and interrupts.

So why would a single processor slow down? The low level in for i in a: pass must
be to bind i to successive integers, however laid out. Meaning incrementing and
decrementing ref counts on the integer objects, and doing that either in linear
memory order or shuffled order, with the integer objects themselves not moving
at all, even with the shuffle of references to them in a.

So how big an L2 cache? 512k bytes? How big is an int object? Even if type info is
shared for an arena, it must be a value,refcount pair each at least, or 8 bytes.
I guess I'd bet on no tricks for type info, so that's a pointer for that -> 12 bytes.
so 512k/12 is about 43k integer objects in L2 cache. But we have a million, so if they
are laid out linearly, we should have 1e6*12/512k or about 22.89 int objects modulo sharing
each cache space that can span an integer. Ok, but L2 cache communicates with CPU cache
which is much smaller, maybe 16 or 32k. 8k 32-bit values in 2k 128-bit chunks. Maybe ;-)
or about 2700 12-byte int objects.

But cache lines probably go back and forth to L2 memory 128 bits wide or 16 bytes.
Which doesn't match 12 bytes, so what happens when you walk orderly through type,refount,value
triplets presumably reading type and reading and writing refount twice, and ignoring the value
since were doing pass?

Anyway, I'm not sure how smart L2 cache is with communicating to slower DRAM, which might
be interleaved in some cases, and have narrower data path. So many factors.

But you can see reading 3*16 will get you 4*12 where randomly you might have to read 4*16
or even more to get your 4*12, depending on the overlaps. If that is what's doing it,
going to a different int representation, where only refcount and value are stored, and the type
info is separate, then the 8 byte lineup with cache chunks ought to make noticeable speedup
for int ops. Of course, I don't know what percentage of all ops that is. I guess someone
instruments the interpreter for that kind of statistics? Timbot?

>
>Python 2.3.2 (#49, Oct  2 2003, 20:02:00) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on wi=
>n32
>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> a =3D range(1000000)
>>>> import time
>>>> def f(a):
>=2E..     t =3D time.time()
>=2E..     for i in a:
>=2E..             pass
>=2E..     return time.time()-t
>=2E..
>>>> for i in xrange(10):
>=2E..     print f(a),
>=2E..
>0.421999931335 0.421000003815 0.421999931335 0.422000169754 0.421999931335 =
>0.437
>99996376 0.421000003815 0.421999931335 0.43799996376 0.406000137329
>>>> import random
>>>> random.shuffle(a)
>>>> for i in xrange(10):
>=2E..     print f(a),
>=2E..
>0.594000101089 0.59299993515 0.610000133514 0.608999967575 0.608999967575 0.=
>5940
>00101089 0.593999862671 0.608999967575 0.594000101089 0.593999862671
>>>> a.sort()
>>>> for i in xrange(10):
>=2E..     print f(a),
>=2E..
>0.421999931335 0.421999931335 0.421999931335 0.422000169754 0.43700003624 0.=
>4219
>99931335 0.421999931335 0.421999931335 0.422000169754 0.43700003624
>
>
>Looks to be an almost 50% slowdown on my dual celeron 400mhz machine
>(128kb cache).  Very interesting, I would have never have expected as
>much (due to the amount of overhead of Python data structures, I
>believed it was generally a wash).
>

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 22 01:53:26 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 06:53:26 GMT
Subject: generic object implementation
References: <8W9od.373195$wV.310530@attbi_s54>
Message-ID: <41a17599.693692997@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:55:48 GMT, Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:

>So I'm trying to get a prototype implementation of the 'generic object' 
>type.  (I'm currently calling it 'bunch', but only because I can't 
>really think of anything better.)  I'd like some feedback on what 
>methods it needs to support.  Ideally I'd keep this as minimal as 
>possible...
UIAM 'bunch' already has a related meaning from c.l.py past (approx the first
three lines of your class), so how about 'gob' ? ;-)

>
>Remember that the goal of the 'generic object' type is to allow the 
>programmer to make the design decision that attribute-style access is 
>more appropriate than []-style access.  Given that, my feeling is that 
>the 'generic object' type should *not* support __(get|set|del)item__ , 
>though I'm still undecided on __len__, __iter__, __contains__, items, 
>keys, values, etc.
>
>Here's what I have currently:
>
>import operator as _operator
>
>class bunch(object):
>     def __init__(self, **kwds):
>         self.__dict__.update(kwds)
>
>     def __eq__(self, other):
>         if not isinstance(other, bunch):
>             return False
>         attrs = set(self.__dict__)
>         if attrs != set(other.__dict__):
>             return False
>         for attr in attrs:
>             if not getattr(self, attr) == getattr(other, attr):
>                 return False
>         return True
>
>     def __repr__(self):
>         return '%s(%s)' % (self.__class__.__name__,
>                            ', '.join('%s=%r' % (k, v)
>                                      for k, v in self.__dict__.items()))
>
>     def update(self, other):
>         self.__dict__.update(other.__dict__)
>
>     @classmethod
>     def frommapping(cls, mapping,
>                     getkeys=iter, getitem=_operator.getitem):
>         result = bunch()
>         for key in getkeys(mapping):
>             value = getitem(mapping, key)
>             try:
>                 value = bunch.frommapping(value)
>             except TypeError:
>                 pass
>             setattr(result, key, value)
>         return result

I dunno, begins to look more like a dict with getattr access substituted for __getitem__
than a primitive generic object...

 >>> class dbunch(dict):
 ...     def __metaclass__(name, bases, cdict):
 ...         cdict.update(dict.__dict__)
 ...         cdict['__getattr__'] = cdict['__getitem__']
 ...         cdict['__setattr__'] = cdict['__setitem__']
 ...         cdict['__delattr__'] = cdict['__delitem__']
 ...         def raiseunsub(*ignore): raise TypeError, 'unsubscriptable object'
 ...         cdict['__getitem__'] = raiseunsub
 ...         cdict['__setitem__'] = raiseunsub
 ...         cdict['__delitem__'] = raiseunsub
 ...         return type(name, bases, cdict)
 ...
 >>> db = dbunch(x=123)
 >>> db
 {'x': 123}
 >>> db.x
 123
 >>> db['x']
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 7, in raiseunsub
 TypeError: unsubscriptable object
 >>> db.y = 456
 >>> db
 {'y': 456, 'x': 123}
 >>> db.x = 789
 >>> db
 {'y': 456, 'x': 789}
 >>> del db.x
 >>> db
 {'y': 456}
 >>> db.x = 101112
 >>> db.z = 131415
 >>> db
 {'y': 456, 'x': 101112, 'z': 131415}
 >>> db.keys()
 ['y', 'x', 'z']
 >>> db.values()
 [456, 101112, 131415]
 >>> db.items()
 [('y', 456), ('x', 101112), ('z', 131415)]
 >>> for k in db: print k,
 ...
 y x z

... and etc. methods from dict, so should it be a restricted builtin subclass of dict
or derive from object directly? It the hope for a lean representation for small numbers
of items?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Nov 19 07:35:11 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:35:11 +0100
Subject: Identifying exceptions that can be raised
References: <cVdnd.7986$tS4.4873@trndny09>
	<mailman.6579.1100837821.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<6Rknd.6671$%M4.4203@trndny08>
Message-ID: <cnkp7l$vp7$03$1@news.t-online.com>

dkcpub wrote:

> Brian van den Broek wrote:
>> If you mean you want a list of exceptions that a given function could
>> raise, well, never mind :-)
> 
> Yeah, that is what I mean.  I write foo(), which calls a half-dozen
> library functions.  What exceptions is a caller of foo() going to have
> to handle?  It there an automated way of discovering that?
> 
> /Dan

None that I know of. You just have to feed the function the typical data and
any corner cases that you can think of and handle all failures that appear
in the process. The unittest module can help you automate this.
Hoping to ever get a comprehensive set of exceptions a function can raise is
a vain effort in Python. A little example may illustrate this:

>>> def add(a, b):
...     return a + b
...
>>> add(1, 2)
3
>>> add(1, "2")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in add
TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'int' and 'str'

The above calls should cover the typical usage of our trivial function. Does
it make sense then, to document/report that add() may raise a TypeError? I
think that would be misleading:

>>> class Int(int):
...     def __add__(self, other):
...             return self/other
...
>>> add(Int(1), 0)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in add
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in __add__
ZeroDivisionError: integer division or modulo by zero

This may seem contrived, but for any non-trivial function the number of
exceptions is open-ended, and trying to achieve reliability by handling a
fixed set of exceptions is essentially asking for type declarations for a
small portion of a function's signature - and a portion where its
usefulness is debated even for statically typed languages (I think Java has
it, but C sharp doesn't).
Put your time to a better use and write a good test suite.

Peter



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Nov 10 03:57:21 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 09:57:21 +0100
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<tyfekj44shs.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxizh.3rip5na92f0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyfacts4of3.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxn7d.19o8q51jt2gu5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<wtww9u4p.fsf@python.net> <cmo88k$1ot$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<tyfoei72yxd.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<2vbunuF2kakbcU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <tyf7jou2ia6.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets.nospaaam at web.de> writes:

> > I don't think so. Given that the _definition_ of the function is in
> > the header, and the header is needed to compile any code which might
> > want to link with the library, the compiler has all it needs, without
> > a need for a corresponding function to exist in the library.
> 
> It has been a while, but I think what happened when including such a header
> on several locations that produced .o-files was that a duplicate symbol
> problem arised on linking time.

I find this hard to believe, unless we are talking about a buggy
compiler or linker. Remember that in the case of templates (until the
EDG people implemented the mythical "export" keyword, relatively
recently) the _only_ way to use templates in more than one translation
unit was to include the full _definitions_ of everything in the
template, in the header.

That's why C++ has the One Definition Rule (ODR). Here's what
Stroustrup has to say about the ODR in _The C++ Programming Language_
3rd edition (p203):

  A given class, enumeration, and template, etc., must be defined
  exactly once in a program. From a practical point of view, this
  means that there must be exactly one definition of, say, a class
  ersiding in a single file somewhere. Unfortunately, the language
  rule cannot be that simple. [...] Consequently the rule in the
  standard that says that there must be a unique definition of a
  class, template, etc., is phrased in a somewhat more compliated and
  subtle manner. This rule is commonly referred to as "the
  one-definiton rule," the ODR. That is, two definitions of a class,
  template, or inline function are accepted as examples of the same
  unique definition if and only if

    [1] they appear in different translation units
    [2] they are token-for-token identical
    [3] the meanings of those tokens are the same in both translation
        units.

  [...]

  The intent of the ODR is to allow inclusion of a class definiton in
  different tranlation units from a common source file.  


> Why would there be a symbol at all, when the code got "pasted" into
> the callee's code?

Remember that "inline" (and the implicit inline you generate by
_defining_ the method in the class itself) is merely a hint to the
compiler, which the compiler is perfectly entitled to ignore. One
situation in which the compiler is _guaranteed_ to ignore it is if you
also declare the method to be virtual, for example. In general, it may
choose to inlne some of the calls while not others. 

I don't think that declaring a function to be inline makes any
guarantess about whether you will find a symbol for that function in
the object code. But the ODR guarantees that sorting this mess out is
the compiler's problem, not yours.


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Wed Nov 10 20:28:39 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:28:39 -0800
Subject: distutils and Debian
In-Reply-To: <qeGdnUA1FNXrJw_cRVn-oA@giganews.com>
References: <4192AD69.5040707@sympatico.ca>
	<slrncp5cf6.v8.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<qeGdnUA1FNXrJw_cRVn-oA@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <cmuf87$fm5$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Istvan Albert wrote:
> Sam Holden wrote:
[Colin J. Williams wrote:]
>>> Should this be reported as a Debian bug?
> 
> 
>> No.
> 
> 
> I would say yes ... there is no logic in crippling
> a standard python distribution. What else is missing?

It's a matter of Debian policy to split things into runtime packages and 
development packages. A Debian package that needs Python to run need 
only depend on the main python package. Most packages that need Python 
*don't* need distutils or the C headers or the static library.

Debian users know, or ought to, that if they want to compile 
extra-Debian software that needs Python (or whatever) they need to 
install the appropriate *-dev packages.

This is a pretty standard split thats followed by several free UN*X 
distributions (I'm tempted to say "most" but I don't have personal 
experience with enough to do that).

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From caroundw5h at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 24 13:47:11 2004
From: caroundw5h at yahoo.com (caroundw5h)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 10:47:11 -0800
Subject: Python's annoyance.
Message-ID: <aa1af1ad.0411241047.4d5da2fd@posting.google.com>

[code]
PEP 292 adds a Template class to the string module that uses "$" to
indicate a substitution. Template is a subclass of the built-in
Unicode type, so the result is always a Unicode string:

>>> import string
>>> t = string.Template('$page: $title')
>>> t.substitute({'page':2, 'title': 'The Best of Times'})
u'2: The Best of Times'

If a key is missing from the dictionary, the substitute method will
raise a KeyError. There's also a safe_substitute method that ignores
missing keys:

>>> t = string.SafeTemplate('$page: $title')
>>> t.safe_substitute({'page':3})
u'3: $title'
[/code]


[code]As a slightly more realistic example, the following decorator
checks that the supplied argument is an integer:

def require_int (func):
    def wrapper (arg):
        assert isinstance(arg, int)
        return func(arg)

    return wrapper

@require_int
def p1 (arg):
    print arg

@require_int
def p2(arg):
    print arg*2
[/code]



Serioulsy, one of python's main selling points is its elegant syntax,
non perl like, non C like. If it can't live up to it. I guess i might
as well use perl or ruby or server side javascript.

how annoying.


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Nov 28 09:21:29 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 09:21:29 -0500
Subject: futue feature division not found  (embedded)
In-Reply-To: <uUbqd.3744579$yk.574653@news.easynews.com>
References: <Ix7qd.5229833$ic1.487950@news.easynews.com>
	<41a925d5.1197560430@news.oz.net>
	<uUbqd.3744579$yk.574653@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <cocmsa$k3c$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Jive wrote:
> "Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
>>HTH. On to the next bug ;-)
> 
> What's HTH?

http://www.google.ca/search?q=acronym+hth

-Peter


From vincent at visualtrans.de  Fri Nov 19 16:05:13 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:05:13 +0100
Subject: using the bsddb from Python (missing docs!)
In-Reply-To: <4edc17eb.0411191042.64ee3c7@posting.google.com>
References: <4edc17eb.0411180549.33719f1e@posting.google.com>
	<cnk73p$113$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<4edc17eb.0411191042.64ee3c7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cnln67$g3b$1@news5.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>

Michele Simionato wrote:
> vincent wehren <vincent at visualtrans.de> wrote in message news:<cnk73p$113$1 at news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>...
> 
>>The bsddb3 package has become part of the standard library as of 2.3, I 
>>believe. The docs for this "full blown" bsddb package are not (yet) part 
>>of Python docs, but off-site on http://pybsddb.sourceforge.net/bsddb3.html.
> 
> 
> I am a bit confused about pybsddb; is pybsddb exactly the same as the module 
> bsddb in Python 2.3+ ? Originally I thought that pybsddb had more stuff in it,
> but now I tend to believe that they are the same. It is confusing since the 
> docs are not in the standard distribution, so it is not clear if they are the 
> same package (as optik and optparse, for instance) or not. Also, the docs 
> of pybsddb are kind of terse: there is the API but there are no examples, so 
> they are not very suitable for people without previous experience with the 
> sleepycat database. This is the reason why I asked is somebody is aware of
> some journal article, or tutorial, or other useful stuff.
> 
> 
>        Michele Simionato

My guess is that it is the same thing, but that the release schedule 
varies. Using the print_version() function from test_all.py in the test 
directory with Python 2.3.4 gives:

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Sleepycat Software: Berkeley DB 4.1.25: (December 19, 2002)
bsddb.db.version():   (4, 1, 25)
bsddb.db.__version__: 4.2.0.2
bsddb.db.cvsid:       $Id: _bsddb.c,v 1.17.6.4 2004/03/16 07:47:45 greg 
Exp $
python version:       2.3.4 (#53, May 25 2004, 21:17:02) [MSC v.1200 32 
bit (Intel)]
My pid:               1056
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

The version of pybsddb on Sourceforge is at 4.2.4.


I don't know any documentation besides the API stuff. So I guess that 
inference from what happens in the test modules probably does give you 
the most mileage ;).

--
Vincent Wehren



From jfouhy at paradise.net.nz  Wed Nov 10 22:35:29 2004
From: jfouhy at paradise.net.nz (John Fouhy)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 19:35:29 -0800
Subject: Floating point -> string conversions
References: <c0f3aa87.0411072002.7c42331e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c0f3aa87.0411101935.43d85afb@posting.google.com>

I have another related question...

>>> pow(2, 31)
2147483648L
>>> '%d' % 2147483647.0              # python will convert to int
'2147483647'
>>> '%d' % 2147483648.0              # too big for an int, so error.
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: int argument required
>>> '%d' % long(2147483648.0)        # but yet, no trouble accepting a long.
'2147483648'
>>> '%d' % int(2147483648.0)         # and int() converts to long anyway
'2147483648'

Is this a bug? 

(python 2.3.4)

-- 
John.


From mwh at python.net  Mon Nov 22 18:08:47 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:08:47 GMT
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<4195419b.303035081@news.oz.net>
	<slrncpgm80.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6381.1100534178.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpjcga.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6465.1100663898.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpmejc.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6506.1100723876.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m37jodv5vk.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

I'm not really reading comp.lang.python at the moment, but found this
thread via the Python-URL...

Tim Peters <tim.peters at gmail.com> writes:

> The only currently active contributor I can think of who cares about
> signals enough to actually work on them is Michael Hudson, but his
> interest seems limited to keeping the interactions been Python's GNU
> readline wrapper and signals working across incompatible details of
> signal semantics on Unixish boxes.  It's possible I'm wrong, and he'd
> really love to work much more on signals, but feels inhibited by
> Guido's well-known dislike of the beasts.

I think you're more or less right.  A couple of years ago I got pretty
badly discouraged attempting to support sigprocmask and friends from
Python, and came to conclusion that noone who cares about portability
-- not just no Python programmers, but *noone at all* -- mixes threads
and signals, because the cross platform behaviour is a total mess, and
in many cases is just plain buggy (I believe the FreeBSD version of
libc_r for 5.something contains a fix that is a direct consequence of
my efforts, for example).  Even linking with the threading libraries
was enough to stuff things up mightily in some circumstances.

We Do Not Want To Go There.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Well, you pretty much need Microsoft stuff to get misbehaviours
  bad enough to actually tear the time-space continuum.  Luckily 
  for you, MS Internet Explorer is available for Solaris.
                              -- Calle Dybedahl, alt.sysadmin.recovery


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Nov  4 13:20:02 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 10:20:02 -0800
Subject: Modification to asyncore.py to support threaded event loop
In-Reply-To: <8548c5f3.0411040053.15644bfe@posting.google.com>
References: <8548c5f3.0411040053.15644bfe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041104095512.F80F.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Pillai) wrote:
> 
> If you have ever used the asyncore module, you will realize that it's
> event loop does not have a programmable exit condition. It keeps
> looping till the channels in its socket map (a dictionary) are closed
> and don't have any pending reads/writes.

With the asyncore that will be included with Python 2.4, loop() has a
'count' argument.  Your 'programmable exit condition' is simple...

while not exit_condition_satisfied:
    asyncore.loop(count=1)


> If you are using Python threads in your application, by using either
> the threading or thread modules, adding asyncore capability on top of
> it is a bit tricky. The moment you call asyncore.loop after
> initializing your asyncore based client/server, it takes over the main
> thread. Hence, if you want to mix threaded classes (derived from
> threading.Thread) and asyncore in one program, the only recourse is to
> create and initialize all your thread objects first and call
> asyncore.loop as the last function in your main thread.
> 
> However, with a small hack it is possible to get asyncore event loop
> running in its own thread, as shown below.

Here's an easier way to get asyncore running in its own thread, with
nearly all the functionality you mention, without having to subclass
Thread.

def asyncore_loop(exit_condition, timeout=30.0,
                  use_poll=False, map=None):
    if map is None:
        map = asyncore.map
    while map and not exit_condition:
        asyncore.loop(timeout=30.0, use_poll=False, map=map, count=1)

exit_condition = []

threading.Thread(target=asyncore_loop, args=(exit_condition,)).start()

#to kill the thread...
exit_condition.append(None)


> The following is a mixin class, which derives from threading.Thread
> and also overrides asyncore.loop in its 'run()' method.

[snip unnecessary code]

> Now you can initialize your asyncore based clients/servers and instead
> of calling 'asyncore.loop', do it as follows,

See the snippet I provide above.


> Perhaps this is worth a PEP for inclusion in Python 2.4?

Module and/or functionality additions do not require a PEP (from what I
understand).  Changing the behavior of the language, adding a builtin,
etc., that requires a PEP.

It is not going to make it into Python 2.4.  How would I know this? 
Because "no new functionality after the beta".  We're on beta 2, and
even small functionality additions that were pre-approved (but not
implemented) are not making it into 2.4.

What about for Python 2.5?  I doubt it would be added there either.  The
functionality is very simple to implement if you know what you are doing,
and doesn't require copying the internals of asyncore.loop to make it
happen.

 - Josiah



From peter at semantico.com  Fri Nov 19 10:48:37 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:48:37 +0000
Subject: Question about thread
In-Reply-To: <1100875373.911763@eng-ser6>
References: <1100875373.911763@eng-ser6>
Message-ID: <419e164f$0$24802$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Valkyrie wrote:
> Refering to the following codes I found, there is nothing displayed in the
> console, may I ask why?
> 
> def thrd(param): # the thread worker function
>     print "Received",param
> 
> import thread
> for i in range(5): # start five threads passing i to each one
>     thread.start_new_thread(thrd,(i,))
> 
> Thanks in advance

The problem with your script is that it will run too fast before it quits and
kills all the threads.

if you add

a = 0
for i in range(100000):
	a = a + 1

to the end you will see the output.


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Nov  2 08:33:36 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 08:33:36 -0500
Subject: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails ...
 python on ?)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5743.1099279182.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>	<sqednYEeQbsozBncRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5743.1099279182.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8vudnfVCkdgyERrcRVn-jA@powergate.ca>

Richard Blackwood wrote:
> <SNIP>
>> To the OP: there are several Python "application frameworks"
>> which on the surface appear to be similar in goal to Rails.
>> I don't know much about them, and at the moment even their
>> names aren't coming to me, so I can't help more than that.
>> I think a search for "enterprise application framework Python"
>> would probably turn up at least one of them.
> 
> Do you mean Zope?

Yikes!  I *didn't* mean Zope, as it doesn't qualify for the
term 'enterprise application framework' as I used it above,
but I *should* have meant Zope, because upon revisiting the
rubyonrails.org site, I see that it is a *web* framework.

No idea how I missed that key word.  Perhaps the MVC part
grabbed my eyes and filtered the rest of my reading (which
was admittedly brief).  Perhaps I was just on drugs.  Was
that a Saturday?  Yes, it was definitely the drugs.  Today
I'm on *different* drugs, the pretty blue ones, and I'm
feeling much furrier, thank you.  Down, Shadowfax, down!
Oh, the spiders are crawling up my legs!  They're coming
to take me away, away! to the funny farm, where life is


From someone at microsoft.com  Sun Nov 28 17:37:35 2004
From: someone at microsoft.com (Jive)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 22:37:35 GMT
Subject: A lock that times out but doesn't poll
References: <slrncq5vvl.61m.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<kJqpd.5108720$ic1.478957@news.easynews.com>
	<uis7sxu95.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<Gr8qd.5826881$6p.937672@news.easynews.com>
	<cocmon$k3c$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<Spsqd.3779600$yk.580269@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <Pqsqd.5874608$6p.944153@news.easynews.com>

Dang.  I forgot the line-wrap again.  Sorry about that.





From gdamjan at gmail.com  Tue Nov 23 20:56:02 2004
From: gdamjan at gmail.com (Damjan)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 02:56:02 +0100
Subject: Nagging problem with MySQLdb
References: <cnrffo$c4s$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <30i81jF30gipaU1@uni-berlin.de>


As much as I can see

> VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s,
> %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s);"""

there's a missing comma here 

> [data01, data02, data03, data04, data05, data06, data07, data08,
> data09, data10, data11, data12, data13, data14, data15, data16, data17,
> data18, data19, data20, data21, data22, data23, data24, data25, data26,
> data27, data28, data29]
> )

-- 
damjan


From michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it  Tue Nov  2 03:22:52 2004
From: michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it (Michele Petrazzo)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 09:22:52 +0100
Subject: [wx] Simple image editor
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5710.1099129437.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <clvmtr$8vl$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
	<mailman.5710.1099129437.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cm7g70$bia$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>

Cliff Wells wrote:
> On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 11:28 +0200, Michele Petrazzo wrote:
> 
>>I want to create a simple image editor (with wxPython) for my application.
>>Now I'm able to zoom, draw with a pen, insert a text into the loaded 
>>image, and undo changes (for this I reload the image and redraw all the 
>>lines/text, but not the last.)
>>
>>My problem is how can I move the texts/lines that are insert into Image, 
>>after placed? How the image editors (like GIMP) are able to move the 
>>objects? Please don't tell me to read the GIMP's source :).
> 
> 
> First of all, if you are talking about bitmaps, then there are no such
> things as "objects" in that sense, there is only a big bunch of bits.
> What programs like the Gimp do is keep several (possibly hundreds) of
> separate bitmaps for each of the objects and then composite them
> together to give you a unified view of your "bitmap".  So the first
> thing you'll need is a framework for managing all those objects.  

Ok. I'll divide all my "objects" into a lot of bitmaps.

> This
> should be fairly straightforward in Python.  Second, you can use the
> built-in wxPython image handling tools or take a look at something like
> PIL for doing the compositing. 
I'm using yet both wxPython and PIL. So the work will not be very hard.

> 
> Regards,
> Cliff
> 

Thanks.
Michele Petrazzo


From mpapec at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 22 13:18:43 2004
From: mpapec at yahoo.com (Matija Papec)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 19:18:43 +0100
Subject: for(each) element aliasing
References: <2844q0l5ccahj6poumolghrcm2u2boo9ka@4ax.com>
	<mailman.6698.1101141567.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c9a4q0d6lc8usqtcjbidgn786tmkfhs0gf@4ax.com>

X-Ftn-To: Jp Calderone 

Jp Calderone <exarkun at divmod.com> wrote:
>> -------
>> 2 4 6
>
>  No.  Integers in Python are immutable.  For lists of other things, mutation in-place (similar to the above example) is possible, but for integers and other immutable types, it is not.  You may be interested in list comprehensions, though:
>
>    arr = range(1, 4)
>    arr[:] = [a * 2 for a in arr]
>    print arr

I guess this works like "map" but "for" is more idimatic.


Thank you all for so quick responses. :)


-- 
Matija


From boisgera at isia.cma.fr  Thu Nov 25 13:13:21 2004
From: boisgera at isia.cma.fr (Sebastien Boisgerault)
Date: 25 Nov 2004 10:13:21 -0800
Subject: Operator Overloading
References: <f6b69c93.0411250014.61315219@posting.google.com>
	<co48s1$r1f$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<41a5e084$0$25787$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <f6b69c93.0411251013.62bbe201@posting.google.com>

Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at email.com> wrote in message news:<41a5e084$0$25787$5a62ac22 at per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>...
> Peter Maas wrote:
> > What you are wondering about is the opposite direction
> > 
> > IF [] works THEN __getitem__ in dict.
> > 
> > but this is not what the Python Reference Manual says. Im not a
> > Numeric expert but AFAIK Numeric arrays are basically C arrays
> > having [] intrinsically so there's no need no deliver it via
> > __getitem__.
> 
> This is correct, and true of any C extension - classes implemented in C only 
> need to define the appropriate function pointers in their type structures in 
> order for Python to find the relevant methods.
> 
> Classes that are being *nice* about it put in the actual magic method names as 
> well (e.g. try "list.__getitem__"), but it is by no means required.

Nick, Pierre, Peter,

Thanks for your answers. I guess that in the case of the Numeric 
package, there was at least the *intent* to support __getitem__ 
because it is provided at the class level (which is not required, 
right ?):

>> from Numeric import *
>> a = array([3.14])
>> Array = type(a)
>> a.__getitem__(0)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: __getitem__
>> Array.__getitem__(a,0)
3.14

I guess that everything would work as expected if __class__ was defined at
the instance level ...

Regards,

SB


From noway at sorry.com  Wed Nov 24 22:47:26 2004
From: noway at sorry.com (Giovanni Bajo)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 03:47:26 GMT
Subject: Python's annoyance.
References: <aa1af1ad.0411241047.4d5da2fd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <iBcpd.50687$Es2.1096718@twister2.libero.it>

caroundw5h wrote:

> Serioulsy, one of python's main selling points is its elegant syntax,
> non perl like, non C like. If it can't live up to it. I guess i might
> as well use perl or ruby or server side javascript.
> how annoying.

In fact, I find the decorator syntax awful. But I know this was already
discussed to a large extent, so there must be a very good reason to use @.
Which I totally miss, but hey.
-- 
Giovanni Bajo




From DesertLinux at netscape.net  Wed Nov 10 17:22:06 2004
From: DesertLinux at netscape.net (Byron)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:22:06 GMT
Subject: web hosting with Python
In-Reply-To: <3cccb1d8.0411101416.690960c3@posting.google.com>
References: <3cccb1d8.0411101416.690960c3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <iwwkd.23232$KJ6.13706@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Yes, check out:
http://www.data393.com/web-hosting/reseller-hosting.asp

Byron
---

MJR wrote:
> Hi,
> anybody could recommend web hosting company which offer professional
> reseller package with Python, preferable located in Europe?
> 
> Thanks,
> Mike


From v451v at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 29 18:05:37 2004
From: v451v at yahoo.com (Jorl Shefner)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 18:05:37 -0500
Subject: Numeric: 'where' function conditions
Message-ID: <311o97F300hdgU1@uni-berlin.de>

Could anyone tell me the efficient way to do this?   Extracting values 
from an array for a single condition (say all values greater than 'x') 
using 'where' and 'compress' is simple enough.  

>>> from Numeric import arange,where,compress
>>> data= arange(10)
>>> data= [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
>>> mask= where((data > 3),1,0)
>>> result= compress(mask,data)
>>> result
array([4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9])

But, 'where' doesn't appear to allow for multiple conditions in one 
statement.  For instance, I'd like to do something like:

mask= where((3 < data <= 7),1,0)

but, this won't work.

So, the best I could come up with was this more complicated process that 
requires 2 separate masks and an extra temporary array.    

>>> mask1= where((data > 3),data,0)
>>> mask1
array([0, 0, 0, 0, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9])
>>> mask2= where((mask1<= 7),mask1,0)
>>> mask2
array([0, 0, 0, 0, 4, 5, 6, 7, 0, 0])
>>> r= compress(mask2,data)
>>> r
array([4, 5, 6, 7])

Is there a more concise way?

Thanks,

J.S.


From mwm at mired.org  Tue Nov  9 11:36:32 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 10:36:32 -0600
Subject: possible to pass python objects into java without jython?
References: <mailman.6140.1099997924.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <x7bre7ou7j.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Maurice Ling <mauriceling at acm.org> writes:

> Hi,
>
> I have read that this had been asked before but there's no
> satisfactory replies then.
>
> I have a module (pA) written in python, which originally is called by
> another python module (pB), and passes a python object (pO) to pB. Now
> I require pA to be called in a java class (jC) and pass pO into jC. As
> pA uses non-python modules, I am not able to use Jython on this.
>
> Are there any way out in this?

CORBA.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 01:35:20 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 06:35:20 GMT
Subject: protocols, inheritance and polymorphism
In-Reply-To: <donn-D778C1.17100223112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>
	<Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<YWKod.137814$HA.44609@attbi_s01>
	<donn-F6A9D8.11153623112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<tqadnT2kAIXJEj7cRVn-hA@rogers.com>
	<donn-F39B72.13183123112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<mqedndyH_YCYUT7cRVn-uQ@rogers.com>
	<donn-D778C1.17100223112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <IYVod.663307$8_6.318534@attbi_s04>

Donn Cave wrote:
> Rather than embrace
> subtype polymorphism through inheritance, however, I see it
> as evidence that no one has figured out how to make static
> typing really work with OOP.

I'm not sure I follow your argument here.  Java interfaces provide the 
same sort of protocol-based typing as Python does (though of course you 
have do declare interfaces everywhere to make them work this way). 
Going back to my earlier Python example:

 >>> def process_rules(rules):
...     for rule in rules:
...         print rule.name
...

the corresponding Java might look something like:

public interface Rule {
     public Object getName();
}

public class RuleProcessor {
     public void processRules(Iterable<Rule> rules){
         for (Rule rule: rules) {
             System.out.println(rule.getName())
         }
     }
}

Note that because Java is statically typed, you have to declare all the 
appropriate interfaces: Iterable is in java.lang, and Rule is declared 
above.  In Python, the interfaces are implied by the use, and left 
undeclared.

Of course, you have to declare your interfaces in a suitably generic 
manner.  I could have written this replacing Iterable<Rule> with 
Collection<Rule> or List<Rule>, but Iterable<Rule> is the type that 
makes the fewest commitments about the parameter and still allows me to 
iterate over the Rule objects.  Similarly, I could have written getName 
to return a String, but by declaring getName with Object as a return 
type, I make only the necessary commitment that getName returns a value.

The annoying thing, of course, is what you do when suddenly *one* use of 
a Rule does require, say, a String result of getName:

public class OtherRuleProcessor {
     public void processRules(Iterable<Rule> rules){
         for (Rule rule: rules) {
             String[] s = rule.getName().split('\\s')
         }
     }
}

Do I now declare a new interface for this Rule and add another 
implements clause to all my classes that implement the original Rule as 
well?  Do I make the original Rule interface less general by changing 
the return type from Object to String?  It can get nasty rather quickly...

Python, of course, avoids this by not declaring types. =)

Steve


From arkham at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 09:57:44 2004
From: arkham at gmail.com (Rob Snyder)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:57:44 GMT
Subject: asynchat and threading
Message-ID: <Ij1pd.19554$ld2.4796764@twister.nyc.rr.com>

Greetings -

I've embarked on a small learning project, trying to get a better grasp of
the asyncore and asynchat modules. The project involves building a simple
instant messenger application for use on our LAN - nothing heavy duty, as
99% of my reason for doing this is just to learn.

I got my server portion working well, and I think I understand the basics.
Where I'm getting stuck is on the client side, where I'm trying to involve
both the asyncore / asynchat stuff in a multithreaded app.

Assume for this that I have a window open with an active chat session, and
an open connection to the server. At any moment in time, a message coule be
received on the connection from the server, or the user could start typing
their own message (and ultimately press enter to send it). Or, for that
matter, the user could close the window or resize it, etc.

I've got to be listening for incoming messages while also letting the UI run
to handle events, while checking the event queue for things I care about
(such as the enter key). I may also, in theory, still be in the process of
sending a prior message out.

I noticed early on that once I call asyncore.loop(), I surrender control to
the asyncore library. I don't want to get into a polling situation, so I
like that asyncore has taken over and is effectively waiting on incoming or
outgoing data.

Since I still need to run my UI, though, started a seperate thread for the
asyncore stuff. I figured I would establish a queue that the asyncore could
use to deliver messages to the UI, and I would just have the UI call the
"push" method to get messages sent.

Then, of course, the ugliness ensued. First, I can't have the UI wait on
both the UI's event queue and the queue I established for communication, so
I'd have to go back to polling between the two. Second, after I read
through the asynchat module, I realized that the producer fifo is just a
list, and when I call push, not only is there no inherent synchronization,
I would actually invoking the code to deliver the message in the UI thread
(so now I have two threads running through the same instance of my
async_chat object, which seems dangerous).

There *must* be some way to use this asyncore stuff on the client side, but
I'm not seeing it. I'm about to bail on it for the client, but I thought
I'd put this out there to see if anyone can help me see a different
approach to this stuff.

Thanks for the help!

Rob


From noway at sorry.com  Thu Nov 25 18:10:07 2004
From: noway at sorry.com (Giovanni Bajo)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 23:10:07 GMT
Subject: Python's annoyance.
References: <aa1af1ad.0411241047.4d5da2fd@posting.google.com>
	<iBcpd.50687$Es2.1096718@twister2.libero.it>
	<4edc17eb.0411242359.6f32199e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <jDtpd.51336$Ni.1760795@twister1.libero.it>

Michele Simionato <michele.simionato at gmail.com> wrote:


>> In fact, I find the decorator syntax awful. But I know this was
>> already
>> discussed to a large extent, so there must be a very good reason to
>> use @.
>> Which I totally miss, but hey.
>
> Well, there is very good reason: Guido likes it!
>
> <no further comments ...>


Right.

Giovanni Bajo




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Nov 13 19:24:12 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 19:24:12 -0500
Subject: Python 2.4: Why only assignments to None are forbiden?
References: <4195190f@pfaff2.ethz.ch><cn40in$cj9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<eivld.25773$KJ6.22637@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <cn68j3$f48$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote in message 
news:eivld.25773$KJ6.22637 at newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Peter Hansen wrote:
>> One perfectly good reason to assign to builtins (and there are others, 
>> I'm sure) is to provide a "mock" function to replace a standard
>> one, for use during automated testing.
>
> That's understandable, but it doesn't work for None.

Peter was not suggesting that replacement of None be allowed but that 
replacement of things like file() should continued to be allowed and not 
prohibited as someone (I believe other than the OP) suggested.

Terry J. Reedy





From jemfinch at gmail.com  Wed Nov  3 02:53:17 2004
From: jemfinch at gmail.com (Jeremy Fincher)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 23:53:17 -0800
Subject: sh: test: argument expected
References: <mailman.5832.1099421098.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <600ac2cf.0411022353.6e071999@posting.google.com>

Iv?n Cabria <cabria at fta.uva.es> wrote in message news:<mailman.5832.1099421098.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi,
> 
> I am a new user of python. I ran 
> a python script and I got the 
> following message:
> 
> sh: test: argument expected
> 
> The first line of the python script is:
> #!/usr/bin/env python

Check that again, I suspect it's wrong.  The error you're getting is
the exact error I get when that line isn't correct or isn't present in
my python scripts.

Run your script as "python <script>" and if you don't get that error,
you can be assured that the first line is the problem.

Jeremy


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 15 17:54:15 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 22:54:15 GMT
Subject: round() to nearest .05 ?
References: <i7KdnYIX-5yQigTcRVn-gg@is.co.za>
Message-ID: <4199259c.148927856@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 22:52:42 +0200, tertius <terti at mighty.co.za> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I'm trying to round my float total to the nearest .05 cents.
Nearest which way? IWT 2.28 is nearer 2.30 than 2.25 ;-)
ISTM you are rounding _down_ to the nearest nickel. So you want to
drop fractional nickels. Which int will do if you calculate the number
of nickels. Then you can divide by 20. to get dollars again
>
>12.01    should produce 12.00
>  0.14    should produce 0.10
>  2.28          "        2.25
>703.81         "        703.80
>
>"%.02f"%100.0099 produces 100.01 (which I know is right)
>No combination of round and/or "%.02f" works for me.
>
>What's the best way to get there? Should I write a function to manage my 
>rounding or is there a simpler/better way?

One way, just to play with subclassing float for constrained initial value:

 >>> values = [12.01, 0.14, 2.28, 703.81]
 >>> class Nickels(float):
 ...     def __new__(cls, val):
 ...         return float.__new__(cls, int(val*20.0)/20.)
 ...     def __repr__(self): return '<Nickels %.2f>'%float(self)
 ...
 >>> [Nickels(v) for v in values]
 [<Nickels 12.00>, <Nickels 0.10>, <Nickels 2.25>, <Nickels 703.80>]
 >>> for value in values: print '%8.2f => %8.2f'%(value,Nickels(value))
 ...
    12.01 =>    12.00
     0.14 =>     0.10
     2.28 =>     2.25
   703.81 =>   703.80

but it's probably silly compared to

 >>> def roundnickel(dollars): return int(dollars*20.0)/20.0
 ...
 >>> for value in values: print '%8.2f => %8.2f'%(value, roundnickel(value))
 ...
    12.01 =>    12.00
     0.14 =>     0.10
     2.28 =>     2.25
   703.81 =>   703.80

What do you want to do for negative numbers? int "rounds" towards zero.

 >>> for value in -.01,.01,-.09,.09: print '%8.2f => %8.2f'%(value, roundnickel(value))
 ...
    -0.01 =>     0.00
     0.01 =>     0.00
    -0.09 =>    -0.05
     0.09 =>     0.05

BTW, if you wanted to use the class with all float operators, you'd have
to define the methods one way or another (there's some sneaky ways, but I think
the class is just a side trip ;-)

 >>> Nickels(.09)
 <Nickels 0.05>
 >>> Nickels(.09) + .01
 0.060000000000000005

Being a subclass of float, python figured out how to coerce Nickels
to float for the addition. If we add an adding method, we get

 >>> Nickels.__add__ = lambda self,other: Nickels(float(self)+ float(other))
 >>> Nickels(.09) + .01
 <Nickels 0.05>
 >>> Nickels(.09) + .06
 <Nickels 0.10>

too much work ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From exarkun at divmod.com  Sun Nov 14 17:21:52 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:21:52 GMT
Subject: determining the number of output arguments
In-Reply-To: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <20041114222152.20649.1625238908.divmod.quotient.5282@ohm>

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 17:12:24 -0500, Darren Dale <dd55 at cornell.edu> wrote:
>Hello,
> 
> def test(data):
> 
> 	i = ? This is the line I have trouble with
> 
> 	if i==1: return data 
> 	else: return data[:i]
> 
> a,b,c,d = test([1,2,3,4])
> 
> How can I set i based on the number of output arguments defined in 
> (a,b,c,d)?
> 

  There is a recipe in the ASPN cookbook for this.  I wonder, though.  Why do you see this as preferable to the more obvious form of:

    def test(data):
        # ...
        return data

    a, b, c, d = test([1, 2, 3, 4])[:4]

  The added "magic" does little but make it easier to write buggy code and harder to understand the behavior of the "test" function.

  Jp


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 12:32:21 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:32:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmp6xu.zmiw6gs3250sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5890.1099529745.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmpyz8.11h86a71kjmdttN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5916.1099587353.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdntd$788$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041104T182500-832@post.gmane.org>

Diez B. Roggisch <deetsNOSPAM <at> web.de> writes:
> 
> I think what Alex means is that if you allow for re-interpreting data as
> simply byte arrays and the other way round, you end up with exactly the
> weak typing you defined before: The arbitrary reinterpretation of memory
> portions.
> 
> Consider this simple example:
> 
> int main() {
>   float f = 13345.0;
>   void *mem = (void*)&f;
>   int *i = ((int*)mem);
>   printf("%f, %i, %d\n", f, mem, *i);
> }

Ahh, ok, I understand where he was going now, thanks.

However, this doesn't really address my concern.  Clearly, allowing you to treat
things as untyped *allows* you to cast one type of structure to another, but it
definitely doesn't *require* you to do so.  In your example, yes, casting to
(void*) lets you cast a piece of memory back and forth between float and int,
but I still don't know when I would actually want to do that...

Does this make my concern any clearer?  What I'm asking for is an example like
yours above that not only shows that you can treat, say, the bits of a float as
an integer, but also shows why this would be useful.

Thanks again,

Steve



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Nov  2 12:18:34 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 09:18:34 -0800
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
In-Reply-To: <cthoeigtdun.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
References: <cthoeigtdun.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
Message-ID: <20041102091526.F7E1.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Zunbeltz Izaola <zunbeltz at wm.lc.ehu.es.XXX> wrote:
> I've an wxPython windows that creates a thread. An object of this
> thread raised an exception and i want to cach it in the main thread,
> that of the windows (I want this becouse the first implementation
> doesn't use thread). I know that exception can not be pass between 
> thread.
> 
> I've read something about wraping the run() method of the threaded 
> object in a try/except block and save the exception for inspection ,
> but i don't know how to implement it. Can you give me and advice?

from StringIO import StringIO
import traceback
import Queue

traceback_queue = Queue.Queue()

...
    def run(self):
        try:
            ...
        except:
            tb = StringIO()
            traceback.print_exc(tb)
            traceback_queue.put(tb.getvalue())
...


 - Josiah



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Nov 29 19:23:43 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 29 Nov 2004 19:23:43 -0500
Subject: subclassing extension type and assignment to __class__
References: <41a87eb5$0$13482$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> <ekifcac8.fsf@telus.net>
	<41a912a8$0$25051$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> <llcler3b.fsf@telus.net>
	<41aa46de$0$13468$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <u8y8k5gmo.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

gregory lielens <gregory.lielens at fft.be> writes:

(...)
> Yes I was affraid this would be the conclusion: embedding instead of
> inheritance...But this means that not only the method that need to be
> modified need to be rewritten in python, all the other ones also just
> to delegate to the embedded instance...
> This is not too practical, even if such writing can be more or less
> automatized...

Unless I'm misunderstanding, couldn't one of __getattr__ or
__getattribute__ make mapping other methods you don't override very
simple and practical, not to mention fully automated with 2-3 lines of
code?  In particular, __getattr__ would seem good for your use since
it is only called for attributes that couldn't already be located.

I've had code that wrapped underlying objects in a number of cases, and
always found that to be a pretty robust mechanism.

-- David


From leknarf at pacbell.net  Mon Nov 29 18:53:50 2004
From: leknarf at pacbell.net (Scott Frankel)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:53:50 -0800
Subject: knowing a file's own name
In-Reply-To: <60C61E64-422D-11D9-9AA0-000A95A7B782@pacbell.net>
References: <60C61E64-422D-11D9-9AA0-000A95A7B782@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <EB076698-4261-11D9-9E72-000A95A7B782@pacbell.net>


Thanks for the responses!

I'd forgotten about using the sys module:
	import sys
	filename = sys.argv[0]

Using "__file__" also works.

Thanks
Scott


On Nov 29, 2004, at 9:37 AM, Scott Frankel wrote:

>
> I'm looking for a way to identify a filename remotely.  Put 
> differently,
> is there a way a file can get its own name from its globals()?
>
> doit.py calls exec() on a second py script, tpairs.py, to obtain a 
> dict of the
> globals in tpairs.py.  How can I add the filename, "tpairs.py," to the 
> resulting dict?
> i.e.:
>
> # - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> # -- tpairs.py
> # - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> this  = "this"
> that  = "that"
> gdict = globals()
>
> # - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> # -- doit.py
> # - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> #!/usr/bin/env python
>
> theFile = "./tpairs.py"
> theDict = {}
> execfile(theFile, theDict)
>
> # somehow add theFile to gdict, i.e.:
> # gdict['theFile'] = theFile
>
>
> Thanks in advance!
> Scott
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Fri Nov 26 18:25:30 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 01:25:30 +0200
Subject: Number of colors in an image
References: <mailman.6820.1101494223.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<uekigxnj7.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <jkefq0lnon39snuuqru0tkhmc84o6efe54@4ax.com>

On 26 Nov 2004 17:18:04 -0500, rumours say that David Bolen
<db3l at fitlinxx.com> might have written:

>        # Use a dictionary to count colors by constructing it with an
>        # iterator of tuples of (pixel,1).  The inner izip makes each
>        # pixel tuple out of the individual band values, and the outer
>        # izip combines it with the infinitely repeating 1 to generate
>        # the values for the dictionary constructor.
>        colors = dict(izip(izip(r,g,b), repeat(1)))
>
>        print 'Number of colors =', len(colors)

A set seems more appropriate in this case:

color_count = len(set(izip(r, g, b))) # untested code

>For a greyscale, or single banded image, it should be faster just to
>use the built-in PIL "histogram" method and take the length of the
>resulting list.

More like the count of non-zero elements in the histogram; I believe the
length of the resulting list will be constant (ie 256).
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
"Tssss!" --Brad Pitt as Achilles in unprecedented Ancient Greek


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Nov 19 04:47:45 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:47:45 +0100
Subject: CGI and logging module
References: <419d0a70$0$221$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
	<419db612$0$220$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
Message-ID: <cnkfdn$lnn$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Peter Mott wrote:

> As I said I am using Python on FreeBSD:
> 
> Python 2.3.4 (#2, Nov 14 2004, 18:06:48)
> [GCC 2.95.4 20020320 [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import logging
>>>>
> 
> and I imported loggng successfully. When I modify my script to the
> following:
> ===============
> #!/usr/local/bin/python
> 
> try:
>    import logging
> except Exception, e:
>    print "Content-type: text/html\n"
>    print "<html><head><title></title></head><body><p>" + str(e) +"<p>"""
> else:
>    print "Content-type: text/html\n"
>    print
> "<html><head><title></title></head><body><h1>OK</h1></body></html>"""
> 
> ==============
> It reports the error which is " No module named logging " .  Something is
> wrong here. Does anyone have any ideas?

Is 2.3.4 the only python interpreter on your system? You could use
sys.version to verify that you are not accidentally using an older (pre
2.3) version that does not offer that package.

Peter



From daniel.dittmar at sap.corp  Thu Nov 18 12:54:23 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.corp (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 18:54:23 +0100
Subject: SPARK v.s. PLY
In-Reply-To: <ed89f8f2.0411180648.49ac6763@posting.google.com>
References: <ed89f8f2.0411180648.49ac6763@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cninkf$qga$1@news.sap-ag.de>

Tran Tuan Anh wrote:
> I am searching for a suitable parsing tool to parse C++ for a research
> project.
> Actually I am parsing SystemC, it is a C++ lib with some macros, hence
> I need to modify the grammar a little bit to handle some new keywords.

OpenC++ (http://opencxx.sourceforge.net/) is not written in Python, but 
it knows probably more about C++ than any simple parser generator.

Daniel


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Nov  8 18:40:05 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 15:40:05 -0800
Subject: Determining combination of bits
In-Reply-To: <418fff99$0$87155$a1866201@visi.com>
References: <cmoqvv$68r$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<418fff99$0$87155$a1866201@visi.com>
Message-ID: <20041108153354.F887.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
> 
> On 2004-11-08, Diez B. Roggisch <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote:
> >> A lapse of mind?
> >>>>> n = 6
> >>>>> n & (-n)
> >> 2
> >> 
> >> You probably meant n&1 or perhaps n%2.
> >
> > No, the exact right thing: 6 is binary
> >
> > 110
> >
> > with the least significant bit beeing 
> >
> > 10
> 
> The least significant bit of 110 is this one here -----+
>                                ^                       |
>                                |                       |
>                                +-----------------------+
> 
> It's a 0 (zero).
> 
> What I think you're trying to say is something like the value
> of the rightmost 1.

From what I remember of high school chemistry (7 years ago), we used to
talk about 'significant figures' quite often.  If the teacher asked for
some number to 5 significant figures, it had better have them...

sig_fig(83737256,5) -> 83737000
sig_fig(1,5)        -> 1.0000

etc.

Now, in the case of 'least significant bit of n', that can be
interpreted as either n&1, or the rightmost bit that is significant
(nonzero).

The n&-n produces the rightmost bit that is nonzero, which is certainly
a valid interpretation of 'least significant bit of n'.

 - Josiah



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Nov  3 23:01:35 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 20:01:35 -0800
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5893.1099537815.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5886.1099528488.5135.python-list@python.org>	<10oj1r6qkn7sf75@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.5893.1099537815.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10oja749iacg275@corp.supernews.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

>Who said anything about a custom event? 
>

Several people earlier in this thread did -- Jaime Wyant and Michael 
Hobbs, for instance. :)

So we have at least three viable ways of doing it, each with their own 
advantages/disadvantages.  Which one to use depends on circumstances and 
personal preference...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From davecook at nowhere.net  Thu Nov  4 21:34:11 2004
From: davecook at nowhere.net (Dave Cook)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 02:34:11 GMT
Subject: looking for gtk.glade documenation
References: <pan.2004.11.05.00.29.30.309127@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <slrncolpl3.in9.davecook@localhost.localdomain>

In article <pan.2004.11.05.00.29.30.309127 at yahoo.com>, John Doe wrote:

> does anyone have a website that covers gtk.glade?

I was going to point you to several linuxjournal.com articles, but they are
now restricting them to subscribers.

There's only a few things you need to know:

Creating an XML object:

  xml = gtk.glade.XML("myapp.glade")
  
Getting a widget ref:

  widget = xml.get_widget("foo")
  widgets = xml.get_widget_prefix("foo")
  
Getting a widget name:

  widget_name = gtk.glade.get_widget_name(widget)
  
Connecting callbacks to signals:

  xml.signal_connect("on_foo", on_foo_callback, user_data)
  xml.signal_autoconnect({"on_foo" : on_foo_callback})
  xml.signal_autoconnect(foo_object)
  
The last example reads from foo_object.__dict__ to connect the callback.  

Dave Cook


From danperl at rogers.com  Wed Nov  3 07:25:35 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 07:25:35 -0500
Subject: [OT] nntp references, was re: pickling a dict
Message-ID: <MaydnTj9QfvZUxXcRVn-iQ@rogers.com>


"andrea valle" <andrea.valle at unito.it> wrote in message 
news:mailman.5862.1099468587.5135.python-list at python.org...

>> First of all, your posting shows up as part of the "Newbie question"
>> thread
>> and not as a new thread.  You probably replied or followed up to a
>> posting
>> in that thread and you only changed the subject line.  Please don't do
>> that.
>>
>
> Yes, it's true. I'm really sorry. I didn't know about this fact. (Where
> is these info about thread recorded??)

Good question.  I'm actually not familiar with NNTP, but looking at the 
properties of a message and at RFC 1036 (Standard for Interchange of USENET 
Messages, http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1036.txt) I figure that that 
information is kept in the References field (an optional field) in the 
header:
"This field lists the Message-ID's of any messages prompting the submission 
of this message. It is required for all follow-up messages, and forbidden 
when a new subject is raised. Implementations should provide a follow-up 
command, which allows a user to post a follow-up message. This command 
should generate a "Subject" line which is the same as the original message, 
except that if the original subject does not begin with "Re:" or "re:", the 
four characters "Re:" are inserted before the subject. If there is no 
"References" line on the original header, the "References" line should 
contain the Message-ID of the original message (including the angle 
brackets). If the original message does have a "References" line, the 
follow-up message should have a "References" line containing the text of the 
original "References" line, a blank, and the Message-ID of the original 
message.

The purpose of the "References" header is to allow messages to be grouped 
into conversations by the user interface program. This allows conversations 
within a newsgroup to be kept together, and potentially users might shut off 
entire conversations without unsubscribing to a newsgroup. User interfaces 
need not make use of this header, but all automatically generated follow-ups 
should generate the "References" line for the benefit of systems that do use 
it, and manually generated follow-ups (e.g., typed in well after the 
original message has been printed by the machine) should be encouraged to 
include them as well.

It is permissible to not include the entire previous "References" line if it 
is too long. An attempt should be made to include a reasonable number of 
backwards references."

>> BTW, does your save( ) function also take minutes?  If it takes much
>> less
>> than the open( ) function, my guess would be that pickle is not the
>> problem.
>
> You're guessing fine: it takes much less. So effectively it should
> depend on my other functions. I hadn't considered that.

Make sure that those functions are the problem.  Use the profiler 
(http://www.python.org/doc/lib/profile.html) or insert some statements 
showing the time like the ones I described before and find out where most of 
the processing time is spent.  You should actually use the profiler at least 
eventually, when it will come to improving the performance of your 
functions.

Dan 




From bradtilley at gmail.com  Tue Nov  9 13:22:15 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 13:22:15 -0500
Subject: Getting Windows computer system info
In-Reply-To: <93c5215b.0411090947.a955001@posting.google.com>
References: <93c5215b.0411090947.a955001@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cmr1sn$kg9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Bolin wrote:
> I was wondering how to get some system info from a PC running Windows
> in python. I am especially interested in knowing how much RAM the
> computer has, how much diskspace is still left, and what jobs are
> already running and how much memory they take. If this is off-topic, I
> would appreciate if you redirect me.
> 
> Thank!
> 
> B.

You may find this of interest. It's a Python implementation of winver 
that I wrote:

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/rtilley/downloads/winver/winver.html


From mr_ravi_patil at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 17 14:53:57 2004
From: mr_ravi_patil at yahoo.com (SoftwareTester)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 11:53:57 -0800
Subject: psSerial: how to write a single byte value to the serial port?
References: <5a050156.0411170057.6c27a6a4@posting.google.com>
	<419b2f5f.282498301@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <5a050156.0411171153.6f04b454@posting.google.com>

Thanks for the reply. 

I want to write a single byte with  hex representation 0x40 to the serial port
 -- just a single byte.

I assume the string print ser.write() will append null characters to the end.

Maybe the chr() will write only a single byte and nothing more.

I will try 

byte = chr(0x40)
ser.write(byte)



bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message news:<419b2f5f.282498301 at news.oz.net>...
> On 17 Nov 2004 00:57:23 -0800, mr_ravi_patil at yahoo.com (SoftwareTester) wrote:
> 
> >http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/ 
> >example shows how to write string to serial port.
> >
> >
> >#Open port 0 at "9600,8,N,1", no timeout
> >
> >>>> import serial
> >>>> ser = serial.Serial(0) #open first serial 
> >>>> ser.write("hello") #write a string
> >>>> ser.close() #close port
> >
> >how do i write a single byte value to the serial port?
> 
> How is your single byte represented? A hex representation of the
> _numeric_ code for a single character? E.g., you may need to convert
> to a character string of length one (which the chr function does)
> in order to pass it to ser.write (which apparently accepts the
> 5-char string "hello" all right).
> 
>  >>> 65
>  65
>  >>> chr(65)
>  'A'
>  >>> 0x41
>  65
>  >>> chr(0x41)
>  'A'
> 
> thus, perhaps something like
> 
>     ser.write(chr(0x41))
> 
> or
> 
>     byte = chr(0x41)
>     ser.write(byte)
> 
> (Untested, just judging from the example outputting "hello" above ;-).
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter


From gergina at abv.bg  Wed Nov 24 13:36:41 2004
From: gergina at abv.bg (Nickolay)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 10:36:41 -0800
Subject: executable from python cod
Message-ID: <77969915.0411241036.553c3da3@posting.google.com>

how you think - if needs small executable creating from python code?


From foo at bar.com  Sat Nov  6 16:44:01 2004
From: foo at bar.com (Steve Menard)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 16:44:01 -0500
Subject: JMS for CPython via JPype?
In-Reply-To: <v4dqo05ufca1eo6mp3dv6s8r5id31v6jn5@4ax.com>
References: <1b2k1czwwox4i$.ae466jlsmeu2$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<n4soo0t5hf838mtjb3cjp9jiu8rrqmu0pm@4ax.com>
	<iB8jd.60325$v03.1239286@wagner.videotron.net>
	<v4dqo05ufca1eo6mp3dv6s8r5id31v6jn5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <KAbjd.63109$v03.1340720@wagner.videotron.net>

David Morgenthaler wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 13:19:49 -0500, Steve Menard <foo at bar.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>>Dave,
>>
>>This example is amazing! would you be willing to contribute it to a 
>>Jpype examples/recipe repository? I think such a place would be great 
>>for those starting to use JPype. And as my documentation is not so good 
>>(yet), good examples can only help.
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>Steve Menard
> 
> 
> Consider it contributed. I'm glad to (finally) give something back to
> c.l.py!
> 
> Dave

Thank you very much!

I will add it to the exampels directyory for the next release.

Steve


From exarkun at divmod.com  Wed Nov 24 14:29:29 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:29:29 GMT
Subject: Deleting keys from shelve
In-Reply-To: <9e5ea2c4.0411241105.3554551d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041124192929.17481.27405855.divmod.quotient.3897@ohm>

On 24 Nov 2004 11:05:27 -0800, OlafMeding at compuserve.com (Olaf Meding) wrote:
>Why does a shelve file never get smaller?
> 
> I noticed that the shelve file (db.txt, see below) does not change
> (get smaller) when deleting a key.  The key is deleted but the file
> size does not change.  I expected the db.txt file to get smaller.
> 
> def delete():
>   s = shelve.open('db.txt')
>   del s['test3']
>   s.close()
> 
> I am using Python 2.2.1 on MS Windows.  Thanks so much for your help.

  shelve uses anydbm for its underlying storage.  anydbm picks one of a number of actual database modules, so that it can work even on systems where a particular database is not available, since Python has support for several.

  Nice thought.

  In practice, it means you don't know how your database will actually behave.  In your case, I'll hazard a guess: you have gotten a database backed by bsddb, which relies on sleepycat's libdb, which never shrinks its database files.  When keys are deleted from the database, the pages they occupied internally are marked as unused and the next time a key is added, those pages may be reused.  The only way to shrink the database file is to create a new database and copy all existing keys into it, then delete the original.

  Jp


From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Thu Nov 11 15:37:43 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (Premshree Pillai)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:37:43 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Importing problems
In-Reply-To: <1099752782.323111.72190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20041111203743.19244.qmail@web8510.mail.in.yahoo.com>

I'm not sure it's an import problem. Had that been the
case you'd've got an ImportError exception.

 --- Gabriele *darkbard* Farina <darkbard at gmail.com>
wrote: 
> Hi
> 
> I've my application filesystem structured like this:
> 
> app/
> -main.py
> -pharaon/
> --__init__.py
> --engine/
> ---__init__.py
> ---php/
> ----__init__.py
> ----tokenizer.py
> --utils
> ---__init__.py
> ---buffers.py
> 
> 
> I'd like to use a class defined in the module
> pharaon/utils/buffers.py
> inside a class defined in
> pharaon/engine/php/tokenizer.py
> 
> I import the class this way (inside buffers.py):
> from pharaon.utils.buffers import FileBuffer
> 
> and then I use the class this way:
> class Tokenizer:
> def __init__(self, source):
> self.buffer = FileBuffer(source)
> 
> inside the main.py file I got this code:
> from pharaon.engine.php.tokenizer import Tokenizer
> t = Tokenizer("test.php")
> print t.buffer
> 
> but when I run the code it prints None.
> why?? I wrong importing the modules?? 
> 
> bye
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>  

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partner online
Go to: http://yahoo.shaadi.com/india-matrimony


From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Fri Nov  5 13:04:14 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 18:04:14 GMT
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmgcp1$hpk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <slrncong4u.1tk.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>


>  C++ has no concept of runtime type information (except from saying "this
>  is
>  of class X). This sort of information is known as "reflection" in java
>  or

let's assume we have a well-populatyed symbol table in the lib
(which is usually the case, or, at least, not too hard a restriction).

>  So to answer your question: Its not possible. There are other reasons as
>  well: C++ defines no binary layout of objects, the result is that a lib
>  complied  with different compilers (gcc, intel, msvc) results in
>  incompatible binaries. So even if one would ship the lib with the header

that's not quite true.
actually, each platform (wintel, linux, ...) has a pretty well-defined
object file format (ELF under unix/linux, for instance).
current icc/linux and gcc/g++ work pretty well together in most cases, and
icc/windows and cl, too.

It is well understood that the envisioned python module would have to be
platform-specific.


Best regards,
gabriel.


-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| There are works which wait,                                             |
| and which one does not understand for a long time; [...]                |
| for the question often arrives a terribly long time after the answer.   |
|                                                         (Oscar Wilde)   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From csawyer at gmail.com  Tue Nov 23 20:58:48 2004
From: csawyer at gmail.com (craig)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 17:58:48 -0800
Subject: instant messenging
References: <d01od.8535$Qh3.3891@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<2004112108293216807%craig@yumaca>
	<TZtod.9969$Qh3.8066@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5c861a71.0411231758.30c5d37c@posting.google.com>

<CUT>
> > http://www.yuma.ca/wordpress/index.php?p=118
> > 
> > It's not remotely close to a good release, and the code isn't error 
> > checked very well, but my bot (yumatito) has been up about 7 days now on 
> > AIM without crashing, that's a good sign :P  His torrent download 
> > ability doesn't work yet, the code is there,  but broken, as I haven't 
> > completely grasped how the btdownload code works yet.. feel free to fix 
> > that for me :P
> > 
> > Hope this helps,
> > Craig
> > 
> 
> Ah, could you possibly have a zip file?? I looked on your site and 
> downloaded the BZ2 file, but I'm not sure how to extract it. I have 
> Cygwin for another application, but I don't know how to get the files 
> out the BZ2. So either a ZIP file or instructions on extracting files in 
>   BZ2 files would be greatly appreciated.

http://www.yuma.ca/wordpress/index.php?p=118
All done, there is a ZIP file there.  I tried to email you off list,
but it seemed to not go so well, so I'm posting here.


From zunbeltz at wm.lc.ehu.es.XXX  Tue Nov  2 11:28:16 2004
From: zunbeltz at wm.lc.ehu.es.XXX (Zunbeltz Izaola)
Date: 02 Nov 2004 17:28:16 +0100
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
Message-ID: <cthoeigtdun.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>


Hi,

I've an wxPython windows that creates a thread. An object of this
thread raised an exception and i want to cach it in the main thread,
that of the windows (I want this becouse the first implementation
doesn't use thread). I know that exception can not be pass between 
thread.

I've read something about wraping the run() method of the threaded 
object in a try/except block and save the exception for inspection ,
but i don't know how to implement it. Can you give me and advice?

TIA

Zunbeltz

-- 
Zunbeltz Izaola Azkona                    |  wmbizazz at lg dot ehu
dotes
Materia Kondentsatuaren Fisika Saila      |
Zientzia eta Teknologia Fakultatea        |  Phone: 34946015326
Euskal Herriko Unibertsitatea             |   
PK 644                                    |  Fax:   34 944648500
48080 Bilbo (SPAIN)                       |


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 12:10:28 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:10:28 GMT
Subject: documentation for PyArg_ParseTupleAndKeywords
In-Reply-To: <c76ff6fc.0411300311.62f97ea4@posting.google.com>
References: <NGOqd.485972$D%.108119@attbi_s51>
	<c76ff6fc.0411300311.62f97ea4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8Q1rd.490968$D%.41813@attbi_s51>

John Machin wrote:
> Well I just fired up the doco gadget and pasted
> "PyArg_ParseTupleAndKeywords" into the Search box and the 2nd
> reference it came up with was this:
> 
> manual: Python/C API Reference Manual
> section: 5.5 Parsing arguments and building values 
> 
> The 1st, 3rd & 4th references were examples of calling it. 
> 
> Where were _you_ looking?

Google, which for once wasn't the right answer. I did actually find the 
docs later by searching for "vgetargskeywords", finding 
http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/toext/other-calling-conventions.html 
and realizing that this had to be in the Python Docs somewhere. =)

Thanks for the pointers.  What's the "doco gadget" you're talking about?

Steve


From reply at to-the-newsgroup.com  Mon Nov 22 01:20:18 2004
From: reply at to-the-newsgroup.com (Ben)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:20:18 -0700
Subject: Question about classes
Message-ID: <1101104418.G+/GLqdG7XJQNil1Jd3gOQ@teranews>

Consider:

class foo:
    x = 5

def getx(r):
    a = foo()
    if r != 0:
        a.x = r
    return a

a = getx(8)

------------------------------------------------
the above works (unless I typoed it, I'm tired)

this illustrates instatiation of a class with initialization dependent
upon a passed parameter. Seems quite useful in the general sense (in fact,
I have a use for it, which is what led me to this.) But this doesn't work:

class foo(xstart):
    x = 5
    if xstart != 0:
        x = xstart

a = foo(8)

What I am curious about is why not? What am I missing about classes here?
Is the functionality delivered in some other fashion, or must I:

class foo:
    x = 5

a = foo()
a.x = 8

to get the brevity and clarity of...

class foo(xstart):
    x = 5
    if xstart != 0:
        x = xstart

a = foo(8)

Thanks for any input on this.



From gergina at abv.bg  Fri Nov 26 14:42:05 2004
From: gergina at abv.bg (Nickolay)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 11:42:05 -0800
Subject: executable from python cod
References: <77969915.0411241036.553c3da3@posting.google.com>
	<co2p3s$inq$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <77969915.0411261142.1bcca34c@posting.google.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote in message news:<co2p3s$inq$02$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> You seem to ask about python standalone executables, preferrably compiled
> and small in size. The answer is: No, that's not doable. There exist things
> like pyexe, that attempt to create compact installers - only the neccessary
> modules, and the core interpreter. Maybe that helps you?

No i need it help. 
I created small compiler(real, not packer - like py2exe) to compile
basic python code(to work compiled program - not need it python??.dll
or *.pyd files). Simple py programs, after compiling has size 1-3,4
kb. But i don't know if it need... That's why i ask you.


From jan.dries at dcube-resource.be  Sun Nov  7 11:06:28 2004
From: jan.dries at dcube-resource.be (Jan Dries)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 17:06:28 +0100
Subject: determine IP
In-Reply-To: <1099842762.14624.0.camel@debian>
References: <1099842762.14624.0.camel@debian>
Message-ID: <418E4804.1010201@dcube-resource.be>

Keir Lawson wrote:
> is there a cross platform way to determine a local machines IP on a
> network (LAN or internet) in python?

In the past I've used the following code for that:

import socket
address = socket.gethostbyname(socket.gethostname())

It worked fine in my situation, but may not be what you are looking for. 
For instance, if your host has multiple addresses, the above may not 
return the one you want. In those cases, gethostbyname_ex() will return 
a list of addresses.

Anyway, see the docs for more information.

Regards,
Jan


From gpul-traduccion-bounces at ceu.fi.udc.es  Tue Nov 30 11:48:31 2004
From: gpul-traduccion-bounces at ceu.fi.udc.es (gpul-traduccion-bounces at ceu.fi.udc.es)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:48:31 +0100
Subject: Your message to gpul-traduccion awaits moderator approval
Message-ID: <mailman.240.1101833311.1388.gpul-traduccion@ceu.fi.udc.es>

Your mail to 'gpul-traduccion' with the subject

    FwD: Details

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    SpamAssassin identified this message as possible spam (score 2.4)

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.  If you would like to cancel
this posting, please visit the following URL:

    http://ceu.fi.udc.es/cgi-bin/mailman/confirm/gpul-traduccion/a5ee0714ef2b40195e672b2c79598b1db95aef9c



From mauriceling at acm.org  Sun Nov  7 00:36:21 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 16:36:21 +1100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <jccro09uusa2pfr7qbhjpcsv6aifjsafgh@4ax.com>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5992.1099726289.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<jccro09uusa2pfr7qbhjpcsv6aifjsafgh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <418DB455.9000200@acm.org>


> It is fabulous that you are able to enumerate your list of requirements so
> completely.  I'm quite serious; many people embark on even complicated
> projects without a clear understanding of the tradeoffs they will
> encounter.
> 
> However, given that set of needs, why would you mess with an "exotic"
> language at all?  Why wouldn't you just write straight to the metal in C++
> or C?

Perhaps you can attribute it to C-phobia.
maurioce


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Sat Nov 27 08:10:18 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 14:10:18 +0100
Subject: import keyword behaviour - performance impact if used multiple
	times?
References: <mailman.6838.1101554289.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <co9ubq$de4$02$2@news.t-online.com>

> If I run fileB, will this import the psycopg twice, or once only? Is
> this something to do with system modules being singletons?

It will be imported only once. Of course the statement will be read twice -
but as this only happens while reading the *.py the first time, you needn't
bother about performance issues.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From mwm at mired.org  Fri Nov  5 21:34:52 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 20:34:52 -0600
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<87d5ysbkq9.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<4b39d922.0411051555.24f31663@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <x7u0s3r9gz.fsf@guru.mired.org>

finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse) writes:

> Yes, wxPython is typically quicker than swing.  It's not fair to use
> this in a generic Python-vs-Java speed shootout, though, since
> wxPython is just a wrapper around wxWidgets' C++ code; you're really
> comparing C++ vs. Java here.

Is it unfair to compare Python dictionaries to Java HashTables because
Python is using hand-tuned C where Java is using Java? I'd say that's
a perfectly fair comparison. If that's fair, what's unfair about
comparing graphics toolkits that happen to be written in C rather than
Python (is there a graphics toolkit written in Python?).

That's *how* interpreted languages manage to compete with compiled
languages - they perform the common operations in hand-tuned compiled
code. That people tend to write Java libraries in Java rather than C
just means they're going to get slower libraries.

> AFAIK the major two reasons for Python's relative slowness are that
> it's interpreted and dynamically typed.

Java is interpreted just like Python is. The only difference is that
Java splits the compiler and VM implementation into two different
binaries.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From agriff at tin.it  Wed Nov  3 15:36:13 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 20:36:13 GMT
Subject: general class functions
References: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>
	<kj9eo0hkjem9pbj3pvdbpea6gpl06ighsj@4ax.com>
	<a76ba315.0411021009.46b06459@posting.google.com>
	<4187d1b6$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<5tugo0h6eod98l4l01gau1risdogl58i6v@4ax.com>
	<a76ba315.0411030822.7e48d308@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fiaio0ldsg8a2n8r13hjt1eo6jevhuvg23@4ax.com>

On 3 Nov 2004 08:22:24 -0800, syd.diamond at gmail.com (syd) wrote:

>Andrea Griffini <agriff at tin.it> wrote in message
>
>> Would it be worse or better to make Library a new-style
>> class, using __getattribute__ instead of __getattr__ and
>> defaulting to object.__getattribute__(self,name) in the
>> "else" part ?
>
>Can you elaborate here, please?  I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

IIUC In python there are two ways of "intercepting"
when someone tries to access a member of an instance
of a class. The first way is defining "__getattr__"
(a method that is called when the normal lookup in
the instance __dict__ failed) and another is defining
"__getattribute__" that is called BEFORE trying any
other lookup (the latter works only for new-style
classes; those that inherit from 'object').

In the first case you need to raise AttributeError
for members you don't want to "emulate" to have the
interpreter continue the lookup; in the second case
you've instead to chain the request up in the
class hierarchy (e.g. to 'object').

Probably as often happens there are pros and cons
with each solution; but I'm quite new to python and
basically virgin of any python internal trick... so
I was asking in the NG for an explanation.

Looks like you're a newbie too; I wouldn't worry ...
probably there are a *lot* of python programmers out
there that never investigated on those implementation
details and still can live happy :-)

Andrea


From ville at spammers.com  Wed Nov  3 09:23:44 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 03 Nov 2004 16:23:44 +0200
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
	<du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<4187b7a1$0$2383$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<QtOdnVh_Pq7-SRrcRVn-2g@speakeasy.net>
	<b16e4ef7.0411030604.603069ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <du74qk7qadr.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Steve" == Stephen Ferg <steve at ferg.org> writes:

    Steve> This issue should be of critical interest to all Python
    Steve> developers, because it means the difference between the
    Steve> existence and the non-existence of opportunities for
    Steve> developers to use Python on the job.

If it was that important, I suppose the catalog-sig would have, say,
one non-spam message in the recent months. Perhaps people have assumed
that PyPI and distros' own package systems have solved the problem
already.

It should be noted that many significant Python packages have
non-python dependencies (wxPython <- wxWidgets). That kind of
dependency needs to be handled too, and it's the kind that is most
problematic. So in the end it basically boils down to not having
apt/yum for Windows.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Mon Nov 22 11:58:03 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:58:03 +0100
Subject: for(each) element aliasing
In-Reply-To: <41a21850$0$1075$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>
References: <2844q0l5ccahj6poumolghrcm2u2boo9ka@4ax.com>
	<41a21850$0$1075$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <30ek4rF303flqU1@uni-berlin.de>

Will McGugan wrote:
> Matija Papec wrote:
>> I know how to alter the list via list indicies but I would like to know if
>> there is posibility to write in Python something like:
>> 
>> my @arr = 1..3;
>> for my $element (@arr) {
>>   $element *= 2;
>> }
>> print "@arr\n";
>> 
>> and get the result
>> -------
>> 2 4 6
>> 
>> 
> 
> Something like this?
> 
> arr= range(1,4)
> for index, value in enumerate( arr):
> 	arr[index]*= 2

But for this you won't need enumerate:

One of
for index in range(len(arr)):
for index in xrange(len(arr)):

is sufficient.

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From fdrake at acm.org  Wed Nov 10 15:33:23 2004
From: fdrake at acm.org (Fred L. Drake, Jr.)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:33:23 -0500
Subject: [development doc updates]
In-Reply-To: <16786.29365.808646.948039@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <20041110154700.5763718E89A@grendel.fdrake.net>
	<16786.29365.808646.948039@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <200411101533.23469.fdrake@acm.org>

On Wednesday 10 November 2004 02:57 pm, Skip Montanaro wrote:
 >     Fred> Lots of changes to how tables are actually formatted, with much
 > of Fred> the styling moved from the HTML to the CSS stylesheet.
 >
 >     Fred> Tables also look nicer in supporting browsers.
 >
 > Any idea what browsers those would be?

All graphical browsers I tested with until I booted a Windows machine.  ;-)

Specifically:  Mozilla 1.8a4 on Linux, Opera 7.21 on Linux, Galeon 1.2.13 (yet 
another Gecko wrapper) on Linux.

Things looked fine on links, lynx, and w3m as well, though I don't expect they 
looked better than before.  ;-)

 >     Fred> Please review the tables and report any strange presentations;
 > be Fred> sure to include the specific browser (including platform and
 > Fred> version!) in your report.
 >
 > Using Firefox 1.0PR on a Solaris system I checked out
 >
 >     http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/boolean.html
 >
 > There are no left, right or top borders.  A PNG is at

That's right.  I liked that better myself; fewer extra lines.  The lines below 
the header and at the bottom of the table are slightly heavier than the other 
lines as well.

I'm surprised that the first and last columns aren't centered, and that the 
heading for the second column is.  I'll need to review more of the actual 
tables in the documents, though the tables I used are quite similar to this 
one.


  -Fred

-- 
Fred L. Drake, Jr.  <fdrake at acm.org>



From cabria at fta.uva.es  Tue Nov  9 16:16:10 2004
From: cabria at fta.uva.es (Iván Cabria)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 16:16:10 MET
Subject: sh: test: argument expected and /usr/bin/env
Message-ID: <200411091516.iA9FG9a4008952@relay.uva.es>

Hi, 
  
in the help page of env (man env) we can find:   
..   
..   
  /usr/bin/env   
     If env executes commands with arguments, it uses the default   
     shell /usr/bin/sh (see sh(1)).   
..   
..   
   
The first line of the python script I am running is:   
#!/usr/bin/env python  
and hence, is using the shell sh...   
    
To change this I have written in the first line of the script:  
#!/usr/bin/env SHELL=/bin/bash python  
 
I have run the script and there has not been any kind of output,  
after running a long time. The script is running, there are no error messages  
of the type 'sh: test: argument expected', but there is no output. It seems  
to me that Python is not running the script. In fact, I have written a  
print statement in the second line, and the script has not printed out  
the message. 
 
 
 
Without SHELL=/bin/bash in the first line, Python is running the script: I  
have written print statements in the second line of the script and also before 
and after the line where the error message comes from, and the script has 
printed out all the messages. 
 
 
 
Iv?n 




From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Nov 22 01:39:53 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 06:39:53 GMT
Subject: Question about classes
In-Reply-To: <1101104418.G+/GLqdG7XJQNil1Jd3gOQ@teranews>
References: <1101104418.G+/GLqdG7XJQNil1Jd3gOQ@teranews>
Message-ID: <ZQfod.652838$8_6.157621@attbi_s04>

Ben wrote:
> class foo(xstart):
>     x = 5
>     if xstart != 0:
>         x = xstart
> 
> a = foo(8)
> 
> What I am curious about is why not? What am I missing about classes here?
> Is the functionality delivered in some other fashion, or must I:
> 
> class foo:
>     x = 5
> 
> a = foo()
> a.x = 8

The parentheses after a class name do not indicate a parameter list; 
they indicate the list of base classes.  So generally, they must by 
classes/types:

 >>> def make_class(base):
...     class C(base):
...         pass
...     return C
...
 >>> make_class(object)
<class '__main__.C'>
 >>> make_class(1)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
   File "<interactive input>", line 2, in make_class
TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
     int() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given)

If you want to set a class or instance variable for an object at 
instantiation time, you probably want to supply the __init__ method:

 >>> class C(object):
...     x = 5
...     def __init__(self, x):
...         if x != 0:
...         	C.x = x
...         	
 >>> c = C(0)
 >>> c.x
5
 >>> c = C(8)
 >>> c.x
8

It seems strange to me that you want to set a *class* variable here, not 
an instance variable, though perhaps you have your reasons.  Note that 
by doing so, every time you make a new instance, you'll change the x 
attribute for all objects:

 >>> C.x
5
 >>> c1 = C(0)
 >>> c1.x
5
 >>> C.x
5
 >>> c2 = C(8)
 >>> c2.x
8
 >>> c1.x
8
 >>> C.x
8

If instead, you intended to set an instance variable, you might write it 
like:

 >>> class C(object):
...     def __init__(self, x):
...         if x != 0:
...         	self.x = x
...         else:
...         	self.x = 5
...         	
 >>> c = C(0)
 >>> c.x
5
 >>> c = C(8)
 >>> c.x
8

Steve


From agriff at tin.it  Tue Nov 16 01:45:34 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 06:45:34 GMT
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
References: <mailman.6390.1100553070.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbf8z.mirt8m687hvbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6397.1100570319.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jn7jp0l5qf63hgkpes65vmt50mn1coiqcj@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:50:12 -0800, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu>
wrote:

>@d_adaptors(d_adapt(foo), d_adapt(bar))
>def x(y, z):
>    <body of x>

First listing type coercions and then listing the variables
on which they're applied ? IMO this is worse than pre-ansi C.

I'd prefer explicit calls at the begin of the body rather
than that... it would be way more readable.

Andrea


From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Tue Nov 23 19:43:15 2004
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe Cavalaria)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 01:43:15 +0100
Subject: Gnome version of Idle?
References: <992f396f.0411202018.1edbc6d0@posting.google.com>
	<41a1b3bd$0$8792$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <41a3d923$0$16756$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Eric Brunel wrote:

> Dave Anderson wrote:
>> I love using Idle as my IDE for python on Windows.  I've briefly tried
>> some other IDE's, but the clean and simple nature of Idle keeps me
>> coming back to it.
>> 
>> Recently, I tried out Idle on Fedora.  The lack of font selection, the
>> lack of anti-aliasing, and the gaudiness of the widgets were a real
>> disappointment.
>> 
>> I wish I could have something like a Gnome-Idle IDE, so I can have the
>> beautiful IDE I'm enjoying in Windows over in Fedora-land.
> 
> No need to go GTK: just wait for tcl/tk 8.5 and you'll get widgets almost
> as cool-looking as GTK ones, since this version will include the tile
> extension, adding theme support to tk. See
> http://tktable.sourceforge.net/tile/
> 
>> Is their any such IDE available? or, is it even possible that I'll see
>> anything like a Gnome clone or version of IDLE within the next few
>> years?
> 
> Make it months (maybe even weeks...). If you have a Python version using
> tk 8.4 (e.g. Python 2.3), you can even try it today by installing the tile
> package and do in your Python code something like (untested...):
> 
> from Tkinter import *
> root = Tk()
> root.tk.call('package', 'import', 'ttk::*')
> 
> I didn't look how to include this in IDLE, but it should be a matter of
> adding one line after the creation of the Tk instance... But take care:
> according to http://tktable.sourceforge.net/tile/doc/converting.txt, it
> will probably break quite a few things, and may even not work at all...
> 
> HTH
Yeah, another themed widget set. Just what we needed to improve the desktop
experience for the user.


From andres.baravalle at gmail.com  Sun Nov 14 23:22:10 2004
From: andres.baravalle at gmail.com (Andres Baravalle)
Date: 14 Nov 2004 20:22:10 -0800
Subject: help with source package including eggtrayicon
Message-ID: <45992f58.0411142022.323f5b58@posting.google.com>

Hi,
I am quite new with python and I'm developing a package that is
including a binary file (eggtrayiconmodule.so) that is open source.

My software is developed in part under linux, and now I would like to
make it fully portable to other unix-like platforms. Therefore I need
to provide the source and integrate eggtrayicon compiling in my
setup.py.

At this point I don't know how go on.

The copy of eggtrayicon I am using is provided by rhn-applet under
Fedora and other distributions, and if I'm not wrong is originally
part of Gnome.

But I do not know what to do with the package to obtain the .so
file... I have only a very rudimental base of C programming.

Is there anyone that can point me in the right direction? At the
present time I am using the python distutils to install/build the
python files, and a method that could be integrated would be
preferable.

Thanks in advance,
   Andres


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Nov  5 19:16:38 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 16:16:38 -0800
Subject: SystemError: com_backpatch: offset too large
In-Reply-To: <781f5e76.0411042315.4d05d451@posting.google.com>
References: <781f5e76.0411032335.57bf5ae4@posting.google.com>
	<1gmqfmp.amq50rbaii20N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<781f5e76.0411042315.4d05d451@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10oo5pec9t7p26b@corp.supernews.com>

alban.minassian at wanadoo.fr wrote:

>Thank, but same problem (now, i have com_backpatch: offset too large
>at line 4567 !)
>

You'll probably get more effective help if you give us more 
information.  In particular, copy & paste the *entire* traceback that 
you're getting.  It's probably also a good idea to include at least a 
segment of relevant code -- a few lines on either side of the one that's 
generating the error, plus any functions that are called there.

Given the message that you posted a link to earlier, it sounds like the 
problem *might* simply be that your code branch is too long -- that is, 
that you've got too many statements at the same scoping level.  To fix 
this, find a way to reorganize your code to break it up into smaller 
functions.

Where are all of these strings coming from?  You can almost certainly 
find some way to modify the data source into something that you can 
iterate over, in a loop, rather than typing 'var += x + y + z' thousands 
of times.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From deepak.sarda at gmail.com  Mon Nov  8 04:02:47 2004
From: deepak.sarda at gmail.com (Deepak Sarda)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 17:02:47 +0800
Subject: checking a thread has started
In-Reply-To: <418f232a$1_2@omega.dimensional.com>
References: <mailman.6001.1099749512.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<qliv52-mlq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<418d3323$1_2@omega.dimensional.com>
	<mailman.6030.1099794009.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418da3e0$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
	<mailman.6101.1099891397.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418f0f8e$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
	<mailman.6102.1099897944.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418f232a$1_2@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <eaac783a0411080102542d912@mail.gmail.com>

On 8 Nov 2004 00:41:30 -0700, Michael Fuhr <mfuhr at fuhr.org> wrote:
> Deepak Sarda <deepak.sarda at gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > max user processes            (-u) 7168
> 
> That refutes the hypothesis that you've hit a process limit; it
> must be something else.


I didn't say I've reached process limit. What I suspect is happening
is that it's taking more time than expected for the thread to be
allocated and as a result, I am getting a defunct thread.


From daniel.dittmar at sap.corp  Mon Nov 29 11:01:37 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.corp (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:01:37 +0100
Subject: Closing files
In-Reply-To: <iuGqd.1051$Tv6.749@read3.inet.fi>
References: <1gnz2kq.1jnqpi01tkznh0N%news+0409@henrikholm.com>
	<cofa4u$l9i$1@news.sap-ag.de> <iuGqd.1051$Tv6.749@read3.inet.fi>
Message-ID: <cofh51$qk8$1@news.sap-ag.de>

Timo Virkkala wrote:
> Daniel Dittmar wrote:
>> And then there are a lot of people who think that changing all the 
>> readlines one liner would be quite easy should the need of a Jython 
>> port arrive, so why bother about it now?
> 
> The problem with this approach is, when the time for the Jython port 
> arrives, do you remember to do it?

If you can write a unit test now that would fail using Jython, then 
you're going to be reminded quickly.

And perhaps there will be changes to Python
- that make the oppen().readlines () version work in fully garbage 
collected environments; like closing the inner file handle when the end 
of the file is reached
- that suggest a different solution; like declarations on local 
variables that say "call destructor when object goes out of scope"

Then, having more complicated code today doesn't buy you anything.

Daniel


From deepak.sarda at gmail.com  Sat Nov  6 21:20:00 2004
From: deepak.sarda at gmail.com (Deepak Sarda)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 10:20:00 +0800
Subject: checking a thread has started
In-Reply-To: <418d3323$1_2@omega.dimensional.com>
References: <mailman.6001.1099749512.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<qliv52-mlq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<418d3323$1_2@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <eaac783a04110618204d89aff5@mail.gmail.com>

On 6 Nov 2004 13:25:07 -0700, Michael Fuhr <mfuhr at fuhr.org> wrote:
> What platform is Apache running on?  Is the script running under
> mod_python or some other framework?  The original post mentioned CGI,
> which traditionally means a separate process, at least on Unix-like
> systems.  If the script is running in a separate process from the web
> server, then Apache wouldn't be responsible for creating the threads
> and it shouldn't be holding any import locks.
> 

The server is on Redhat with a custom 2.4.20 kernel. The script is not
running through mod_python - just a regular #!/usr/bin/python2.2

I see what you mean and it's true that the script actually runs as a
local user. But there is certainly a relation between the server and
the threads because in httpd.conf - there's a directive which says:

StartServers 8

which means there are 8 idle server instances running at any given
time. Now I assume  my main script call take up one instance. Then
when new threads are requested - each thread takes up an instance so
we have 7 new threads. Which is exactly what happens!

The program _always_ successfully creates and completes  execution of
exactly seven new threads leaving the remaining eight requested
threads in no man's land!

So there must be some relation between apache and the script. Also, as
I said earlier, when run through a shell as the same user - the script
works perfectly fine.

Deepak


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Nov  1 08:10:23 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 07:10:23 -0600
Subject: binary data into long/float
In-Reply-To: <20041101102557.4271.qmail@mailweb33.rediffmail.com>
References: <20041101102557.4271.qmail@mailweb33.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041101131023.GA5840@unpythonic.net>

I think you will do something like this:

def heuristic_is_float(l):
    return abs(l) > 10000000:

def readLongOrFloat(f):
    bytes = f.read(4)
    a = array.array('L')
    a.fromstring(bytes)
    if heuristic_is_float(a[0]):
        a = array.array('f')
        a.fromstring(bytes)
    return a[0]

I didn't test my code to make sure it worked, though.

Jeff
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From sean_mcilroy at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 23 13:51:57 2004
From: sean_mcilroy at yahoo.com (Sean McIlroy)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 10:51:57 -0800
Subject: drag and drop graphics in tkinter?
References: <e5063e96.0411221615.2741def4@posting.google.com>
	<41a2fb94$0$8155$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <e5063e96.0411231051.3bc580ce@posting.google.com>

Eric Brunel <eric_brunel at despammed.com> wrote in message news:<41a2fb94$0$8155$8fcfb975 at news.wanadoo.fr>...

> I'm not quite sure I understand your question: drag and drop between what and 
> what?

I'm looking for a way to use drag-and-dropping to pick up a graphic
and move it from one place to another. For example, I thought I could
get my feet wet by writing a script to represent small graphs (in the
nodes-and-vertices sense) as collections of dots and lines onscreen.
Moving the the dots around (while maintaining line-indicated
connections between dots) could furnish a graphical way of
investigating questions like planarity and isomorphism.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov  3 13:42:22 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 13:42:22 -0500
Subject: Should I learn Python?
References: <624a388a.0411021328.5ac41f4c@posting.google.com><418807d0$0$19691$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<624a388a.0411030512.3cf84547@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cmb8q5$rag$1@sea.gmane.org>

If you have not, I suggest that you spend about 2 hours reading through the 
Python tutorial.  The should be enough to experience whether Python grabs 
you, the way it has some of us, or repels you, as it has others.

tjr





From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Nov 10 10:37:29 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:37:29 -0500
Subject: [Newbie]: How to find a specified digit in a number?
In-Reply-To: <dtqkd.63297$Vf.3129899@news000.worldonline.dk>
References: <dtqkd.63297$Vf.3129899@news000.worldonline.dk>
Message-ID: <LGqkd.70$N95.32@lakeread01>

Mathias wrote:

> Hi everyone.
> 
> I'm making a little script which finds the right number from a couple of
> choices, but I need a function or script which finds a specified digit,
> eg. FindDigit(3579, 3) = 7.
> 
> Thanks in advance :-)

Modulo the error checking you should clearly do on the arguments:

 >>> def FindDigit(i, pos):
...   return str(i)[pos-1]
...
 >>> FindDigit(3579, 3)
'7'
 >>>

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From changli_to at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 30 15:09:37 2004
From: changli_to at hotmail.com (Chang LI)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 12:09:37 -0800
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.4 (final)
References: <mailman.6913.1101817983.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <89cc6e1f.0411301209.5bbd5dcf@posting.google.com>

Anthony Baxter <anthony at interlink.com.au> wrote in message news:<mailman.6913.1101817983.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I'm
> happy to announce the release of Python 2.4.
> 

Is there Windows 64-bit edition available?


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Nov  3 17:18:43 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 14:18:43 -0800
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10oim483n2b7r7f@corp.supernews.com>

Steven Bethard wrote:

>Gabriel Zachmann writes:
>  
>
>>would sort of a summary of this thread be of any help?
>>    
>>
>
>Here's a first stab at one:
>
>[...]
>(2) A language is "weakly-typed" if it has a large number of implicit coercions.
>
>[...]
>Definition 2 seemed to be the definition most commonly used on the list, most
>likely because it is actually applicable to a dynamically typed language like
>Python.  It has the problem that in a language that supports operator
>overloading (like Python), programmers can make their language more
>"weakly-typed" by simply providing additional coercions, thus whether or not a
>language is called "weakly-typed" depends both on the language definition and
>any code written in the language.
>  
>

A case could be made that this "problem" isn't really valid if you look 
at "implicit coercions" in the right way.

I'd argue that a programmer-overloaded operation providing coercion is 
not _implicit_ in the same sense that language-default coercion is.  
Admittedly, the coercion may not be immediately evident at the point of 
use, but one can still find the explicitly-coercing code somewhere 
inside the application (and/or included libraries).  In contrast, the 
coercions that happen in Perl, PHP, etc., are not explicitly stated 
*anywhere* in the application.  The difference between these two 
scenarios is, at least in my mind, very distinct and (at least as far as 
language philosophy) very profound -- it's one of *permitting* 
semi-implicit coercions (if the programmer *really* wants them) versus 
one of *mandating* implicit coercions whether the programmer wants them 
or not.

In other words, definition 2 should read that a language can be 
considered "weakly typed" if the *language definition* specifies a large 
number of implicit coercions.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From vinay_sajip at red-dove.com  Thu Nov 25 09:47:09 2004
From: vinay_sajip at red-dove.com (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 14:47:09 +0000
Subject: SysLogHandler is drivin me nuts
In-Reply-To: <f11c8440.0411250122.c600af1@posting.google.com>
References: <f11c8440.0411250122.c600af1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41A5F06D.4050707@red-dove.com>

michael wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> I am stuck while trying to use the logging facilities. Its not logging
> :-) Can somebody point me to a solution ?
> 
> The following snipplets are used
> 
> -------------------------------------------
> "crap.py"
> 
> logging.config.fileConfig("logging.cfg")
> logger = logging.getLogger ("syslog")
> logger.info('While this is just chatty')
> 
> -------------------------------------------
> "logging.cfg"
> 
> [syslog]
> class=handlers.SysLogHandler
> level=ERROR
> formatters=form01
> facility=LOG_LOCAL0
> priority = LOG_INFO
> 
> [formatters]
> keys=form01
> 
> [formatter_form01]
> format=%(levelname)s %(message)s
> 
> -------------------------------------------
> "/etc/syslog.conf"
> 
> local0.*;local0.!=debug         /var/log/local.log
> local0.=debug           /var/log/local-d.log
> 

The config file appears incomplete - can you post the whole of it (if 
it's not too big)? I would have expected to see lines like

[loggers]
keys=root

[handlers]
keys=syslog

[logger_root]
level=DEBUG
qualname=(root)
handlers=syslog

[handler_syslog]
class=handlers.SysLogHandler
level=ERROR
formatter=form01
host=localhost
port=handlers.SYSLOG_UDP_PORT
facility=LOG_LOCAL0
args=(('localhost', handlers.SYSLOG_UDP_PORT), 
handlers.SysLogHandler.LOG_LOCAL0)

(the args line may wrap in this mail)

You can't encode the priority in the config file - it is automatically 
determined from the logging level (e.g. INFO -> LOG_INFO).

Note that the SysLogHandler communicates with the syslog daemon via UDP 
and there may be network problems preventing the messages getting to the 
server. If in doubt, format a UDP packet and send directly from a Python 
script (i.e. not via logging) to confirm that there is no network problem.

Best regards,


Vinay Sajip


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Nov  2 02:49:22 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 08:49:22 +0100
Subject: Newbie question
References: <783d0f8c.0411012330.4172d1d4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.02.07.49.21.527090@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Mon, 01 Nov 2004 23:30:17 -0800 schrieb Uday:

> Hi,
>   I would like to know how can I create and assign variables by 
> de-referencing the values in other variable in Python. 
> 
> I can illustrate what I mean by an example of perl
> 
> $a = "task_id";
> $i = "1";
> $c = $a."_".$i;
> $$c = 2;
> print "$task_id_1\n";
> # Gives the answer as 2
> 
> My problem is that I need to dynamically generate a unique 
> variable within a for loop in Python. The name of the variable
> should be appended by the index of the loop. 

Hi,

the best solution is to use a dictionary:
myvars={}
myvars["task_id"]=....


or you can do this:
locals()["task_id"] # locals gives you a dictionary of the local vars


If you have a object you can use getattr()

# myobj.task_id
getattr(myobj, "task_id")

HTH,
 Thomas




From none.by.e-mail  Sun Nov  7 08:08:55 2004
From: none.by.e-mail (Mike Thompson)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 00:08:55 +1100
Subject: interning strings
Message-ID: <418e1e69$0$15438$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>


The interning of strings has me puzzled.  Its seems to happen sometimes, 
but not others. I can't decern the pattern and I can't seem to find 
documentation regarding it.

I can find documentation of a builtin called 'intern' but its use seems 
frowned upon these days.

For example, using py2.3.3, I find that string interning does seem to 
happen sometimes ...

 >>> s1 = "the"
 >>> s2 = "the"
 >>> s1 is s2
True

And it even happens in this case ...

 >>> s = "aa"
 >>> s1 = s[:1]
 >>> s2 = s[-1:]
 >>> s1, s2
('a', 'a')
 >>> s1 is s2
True

But not in what appears an almost identical case ...

 >>> s = "the the"
 >>> s1 = s[:3]
 >>> s2 = s[-3:]
 >>> s1, s2
('the', 'the')
 >>> s1 is s2
False

BUT, oddly, it does seem to happen here ...

 >>> class X:
... 	pass
...
 >>> x = X()
 >>> y = "the"
 >>> x.the = 42
 >>> x.__dict__
{'the': 42}
 >>> y is x.__dict__.keys()[0]
True


Are there any language rules regarding when strings are interned and 
then they are not?  Should I be ignoring the apparent poor status of 
'intern' and using it anyway? At worst, are there any CPyton 'accidents 
of implementation' that I take advantage of?

Why do I need this?  Well, I have to read in a very large XML document
and convert it into objects, and within the document many attributes
have common string values. To reduce the memory footprint, I'd like to 
intern these commonly reference strings AND I'm wondering how much work 
I need to do, and how much will happen automatically.

Any insights appreciated.

BTW, I'm aware that I can do string interning myself using a dict cache 
(which is what ElementTree does internally).  But, this whole subject 
has got me curious now, and I'd like to understand a bit better. Would,
for example, using the builtin 'intern' give a better result than my 
hand coded interning?

--
Mike



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 22 12:21:15 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:21:15 GMT
Subject: split large file by string/regex
References: <v5l872-sd4.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.6695.1101132348.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<7m9972-0c6.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <41a20089.729260721@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:28:54 +0100, Martin Dieringer <dieringe at zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:

>Jason Rennie <jrennie at csail.mit.edu> writes:
>
>> On Mon, Nov 22, 2004 at 09:38:55AM +0100, Martin Dieringer wrote:
>>> I am trying to split a file by a fixed string.
>>> The file is too large to just read it into a string and split this.
>>> I could probably use a lexer but there maybe anything more simple?
>>
>> If the pattern is contained within a single line, do something like this:
>
>Hmm it's binary data, I can't tell how long lines would be. OTOH a
>line would certainly contain the pattern as it has no \n in it... and
>the lines probably wouldn't be too large for memory...
>
>m.
Do you want to keep the splitting string? I.e., if you split with xxx
from '1231xxx45646xxx45646xxx78' do you want the long-file equivalent of

 >>> '1231xxx45646xxx45646xxx78'.split('xxx')
 ['1231', '45646', '45646', '78']

or (I chose this for below)
 ['1231', 'xxx', '45646', 'xxx', '45646', 'xxx', '78']

or maybe

 ['1231xxx', '45646xxx', '45646xxx', '78']

??

Anyway, I'd use a generator to iterate through the file and look for the delimiter.
This is case-sensitive, BTW (practically untested ;-):

--< splitfile.py >----------------------------------------------
def splitfile(path, splitstr, chunksize=1024*64): # try a megabyte?
    splen = len(splitstr)
    chunks = iter(lambda f=open(path,'rb'):f.read(chunksize), '')
    buf = ''
    for chunk in chunks:
        buf += chunk
        start = end = 0
        while end>=0 and len(buf)>=splen:
            start, end = end, buf.find(splitstr, end)
            if end>=0:
                yield buf[start:end]  #not including splitstr
                yield splitstr  # == buf[end:end+splen] # splitstr
                end += splen
            else:
                buf = buf[start:]
                break

    yield buf

def test(*args):
    for chunk in splitfile(*args):
        print repr(chunk)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys
    args = sys.argv[1:]
    try:
        if len(args)==3: args[2]=int(args[2])
    except Exception:
        raise SystemExit, 'Usage: python splitfile.py path splitstr [chunksize=64k]'
    test(*args)
----------------------------------------------------------------

Extent of testing follows :-)

 >>> print '%s\n%s%s'%('-'*40, open('splitfile.txt','rb').read(),'-'*40)
 ----------------------------------------
 01234abc5678abc901234
 567ab890abc
 ----------------------------------------
 >>> import ut.splitfile
 >>> ut.splitfile.test('splitfile.txt', 'abc')
 '01234'
 'abc'
 '5678'
 'abc'
 '901234\r\n567ab890'
 'abc'
 '\r\n'
 >>> ut.splitfile.test('splitfile.txt', '012')
 ''
 '012'
 '34abc5678abc9'
 '012'
 '34\r\n567ab890abc\r\n'
 >>> it = ut.splitfile.splitfile('splitfile.txt','ab89',4)
 >>> it.next
 <method-wrapper object at 0x02EF1C6C>
 >>> it.next()
 '01234abc5678abc901234\r\n567'
 >>> it.next()
 'ab89'
 >>> it.next()
 '0abc\r\n'
 >>> it.next()
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 StopIteration

(I put it in my ut package directory but you can put splitfile.py anywhere handy
and mod it to do what you need).

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From exarkun at divmod.com  Sun Nov 28 20:24:37 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 01:24:37 GMT
Subject: Closing files
In-Reply-To: <1gnz2kq.1jnqpi01tkznh0N%news+0409@henrikholm.com>
Message-ID: <20041129012437.17481.1796720954.divmod.quotient.10192@ohm>

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 18:59:31 -0600, news+0409 at henrikholm.com (Henrik Holm) wrote:
>I have recently started playing around with Python.  Some of the things
> I have done have involved reading files.  The way I do this is along the
> lines of
> 
> [snip]

  http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org+file+closing

  Jp


From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 21 21:34:14 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:34:14 -0500
Subject: Nagging problem with MySQLdb
In-Reply-To: <cnrffo$c4s$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <cnrffo$c4s$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <41a14ee9$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>

Phillip wrote:
> Hi.
> However, for about 20 hrs. now I've been trying to write data into an 
> existing table. Until now no success. I hope somebody can help me with 
> this. Here's the relevant code:
> 
>  >>>>>>
> ...
>         VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, 
> %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s);"""

I think you may need a comma here to separate the two arguments to execute.

>         [data01, data02, data03, data04, data05, data06, data07, data08, 
> data09, data10, data11, data12, data13, data14, data15, data16, data17, 
> data18, data19, data20, data21, data22, data23, data24, data25, data26, 
> data27, data28, data29]
>     )
> <<<<<<
> 
> The error I get with this one is:
> "TypeError: string indices must be integers"
> 


From darkbard at gmail.com  Sat Nov  6 09:53:02 2004
From: darkbard at gmail.com (Gabriele *darkbard* Farina)
Date: 6 Nov 2004 06:53:02 -0800
Subject: Importing problems
Message-ID: <1099752782.323111.72190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hi

I've my application filesystem structured like this:

app/
-main.py
-pharaon/
--__init__.py
--engine/
---__init__.py
---php/
----__init__.py
----tokenizer.py
--utils
---__init__.py
---buffers.py


I'd like to use a class defined in the module pharaon/utils/buffers.py
inside a class defined in pharaon/engine/php/tokenizer.py

I import the class this way (inside buffers.py):
from pharaon.utils.buffers import FileBuffer

and then I use the class this way:
class Tokenizer:
def __init__(self, source):
self.buffer = FileBuffer(source)

inside the main.py file I got this code:
from pharaon.engine.php.tokenizer import Tokenizer
t = Tokenizer("test.php")
print t.buffer

but when I run the code it prints None.
why?? I wrong importing the modules?? 

bye



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov  8 08:36:08 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 14:36:08 +0100
Subject: psycopg, transactions and multiple cursors
References: <cmnqpk$2gh$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<cmnroq$raf$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
Message-ID: <cmnso7$iih$02$1@news.t-online.com>

> psycopg.IntegrityError: ERROR:  insert or update on table "y" violates
> foreign key constraint "$1"
> DETAIL:  Key (x_id)=(1) is not present in table "x".
> 
> INSERT INTO y (x_id) VALUES (1)

As the error is about integrity violation, its safe to assume that the
problem is postgresql related.

And changes made in one transaction can't be seen in another until they are
commited _and_ the other transaction is opened after the first one is
commited - that makes sense, as otherwise the second transaction could
create references that then are invalidated by rolling back the first
transaction, creating undefined state.

Now looking at your code, one sees that BEGIN is called on the cursor1 - so
the transaction boundaries are around cursor1, thus they are not visible to
the transaction going on in cursor2. From the psycopg site:

"""
 Every time a new cursor is created, a new connection does not need to be
opened;
"""

So the cursor2 seems to be using its own connection, thus its own
transaction. This is also in the README for psycopg.

As I don't have psycopg running here, I can't experiment myself, but I think
you should use cursor1 for all of your sql statements that belong to one
transaction. 

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From hsh at freecode.dk  Tue Nov  2 02:12:08 2004
From: hsh at freecode.dk (Henrik S. Hansen)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 08:12:08 +0100
Subject: Translating escaped characters
References: <j6qi52-ei2.ln1@tchaikovsky.freecode.dk>
	<mailman.5789.1099349993.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8joj52-d9.ln1@tchaikovsky.freecode.dk>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> writes:

>> How do you best go about translating characters like '\\n' to '\n'?
>
> Is this what you're looking for?
>
>>>> '\\n'.decode('string_escape')
> '\n'
>>>> '\n'.encode('string_escape')
> '\\n'

Precisely, thank you.

-- 
Henrik S. Hansen     http://freecode.dk/~hsh/
Computer science (software engineering) student
Free Software Foundation member #1702 (http://member.fsf.org)


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Sat Nov  6 17:51:35 2004
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 22:51:35 GMT
Subject: Color schemes
References: <41838c6e$0$7153$d5255a0c@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<18282ecb.0410301418.1ee469f5@posting.google.com>
	<418c2006$0$34293$cd19a363@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<18282ecb.0411061242.7deceef3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xzcjd.21247$K7.19576@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

M.E.Farmer:

> As far as I can tell there is not a default color scheme.
> Maybe Idle or PythonWin.

    There is a bit of inheritance here: many environments that use Scintilla
start with the default colour scheme used by SciTE which was based on
PythonWin, and I think that PythonWin got the basics (blue keywords and
green comments) from Visual C++.

> I prefer light text on dark page on a monitor (bad eyes) , but dark
> text on light page to print (saves ink).
> Diffrent color schemes are needed for diffrent applications.

   It is not just the waste of ink. Most printers are very poor at printing
black or dark backgrounds, with ink bleeding into characters or light
streaks and other marks on laser printers.

   Neil




From ville at spammers.com  Tue Nov 30 01:55:22 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 08:55:22 +0200
Subject: UML and OO design tool with Python support
References: <f8fqd.47331$KQ2.46722@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <du7llcjrfl1.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Paul" == Paul McGuire <ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com> writes:

    Paul> I just found out that my favorite UML modeling tool,
    Paul> Enterprise Architect, has just released a new version,
    Paul> *with* Python code support.  You can

...

Somewhat tangentially, but still on-topic for the subject line, the
other day I was delighted to see that Dia (installable for the Linux
Disto near you, and also available for Windows) has Python embedded
into the program. Or at least you can choose "Python console" that
throws you into an interactive Python session where you can go dir() -
ing around to see all kinds of interesting diagram stuff.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From cjw at sympatico.ca  Mon Nov 29 20:00:39 2004
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:00:39 -0500
Subject: Random number generation from functions
In-Reply-To: <GZLqd.29561$1u.7448@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
References: <GZLqd.29561$1u.7448@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <41ABC637.9050008@sympatico.ca>

drs wrote:
> Is there any way to generate random numbers based on arbitrary real valued
> functions? I am looking for something like random.gauss() but with natural
> log and exponential functions.
> 
> thanks,
> 
> -d
> 
> 
numarray has a random package which provides a number of functions, 
including: normal(  	mean, stddev, shape=[])

That may serve your need.

Colin W.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  4 09:36:48 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 15:36:48 +0100
Subject: How do you execute an OS X application (bundle) from Python?
References: <70bb9f8d.0411040250.1f4ac1a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gmqfwv.123e1zzottwtmN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

David Hughes <dfh at forestfield.co.uk> wrote:

> For example, in Python in a Nutshell, Alex Martelli shows how you can
> run a Windows (notepad.exe) or Unix-like (/bin/vim) text editor using
>       os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, editor, [textfile])
> But how would you call the OS X text editor /Applications/TextEdit.app
> - which appears to be a whole directory inside /Applications?
> 
> I'm sorry if the answer is blindingly obvious. I work alone and
> sometimes just get stuck, then have to ask in public and risk
> appearing a noodle brain.

You could spawn the 'open' command (/usr/bin/open) which you also use to
open all kinds of files from OSX's Terminal.  Unfortunately, the P_WAIT
doesn't work in the intended way in this case -- it doesn't wait for the
application to be closed (so that the user has finished editing the
file), but rather it gives you control at once.

Unfortunately, I don't know how to get the P_WAIT functionality on OSX
for a .app directory/bundle -- you may want to ask on the pythonmac-sig!


Alex


From paul at syndeo.co.uk  Mon Nov 15 10:37:53 2004
From: paul at syndeo.co.uk (PaulG)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 07:37:53 -0800
Subject: Pythonwin crashes on step debugging in queue.py
Message-ID: <b52fc8a8.0411150737.346a1a60@posting.google.com>

(I've not found a solution to this anywhere else, so..) With a simple
one line file:

print "Hello world"

if you use pythonwin debugging to step through one line at a time, it
crashes pythonwin at line 157 of queue.py. Running the file on it's
own, of course, works fine.

Anyone else found the same problem/come up with a solution/etc? It's
hardly major, since my print line in the actual code is only for
debugging, but it's frustrating nevertheless!

Cheers,
Paul.

(using win 2000, pythonwin build 163 and python 2.3.3).


From charlotte at donotspam.invalid  Mon Nov  1 04:36:59 2004
From: charlotte at donotspam.invalid (Charlotte)
Date: 01 Nov 2004 09:36:59 GMT
Subject: cherrypy/cheetah vs twisted/nevow
Message-ID: <slrncoc0tr.1tc7.charlotte@xs2.xs4all.nl>

I am developing a web application and am looking for the best framework
to do this in. I know this is an old question, and I have read the list
archives and a couple of comparison pages on the web. I played around
with some, and I have reduced my choices to two very different
frameworks: cherrypy+cheetah and twisted+nevow.

I am writing the prototype in cherrypy with cheetah, and I like it
very much. I am very impressed with the speed of development, and
cherrypy seems to fit the way I think. Before this I used webware, but
cherrypy is simpler and easier and does the things I want very well.
Cherrypy is being completely redesigned at the moment. The 'old'
version is no longer developed, the new version just had the first
alpha release. While the new version looks promising, I am uncertain
that it will be ready for production use very shortly. I can of course
just use the old version, which is stable.

Because of my doubt, I went looking for alternatives, and stumbled
upon nevow. I now absolutely think this is the way a web application
should be developed. I like the way ui and code is seperated, I love
formless, and livepage looks very promising.  However, it is still
beta, and reportedly rather difficult to use. 

The application should have a first version finished in about six
months. Security is very important. The users of the application are
fully trusted, so the most important in this regard is authentication
(and encryption, of course), I think. I could, if needed, just code this
myself. It is a relatively small application, at most a few thousand
users, who will not be using the application, much less sending
requests, at the same time. At the moment I do not expect to use much
of twisted's great possibilities.

Any ideas on what you would do, would be most appreciated.

Charlotte.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 16 15:47:16 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:47:16 +0100
Subject: newbie question
References: <c30e885a.0411160835.35e39084@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6431.1100623812.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gnd5qq.9k5tw9ds0r54N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jeremy Jones <zanesdad at bellsouth.net> wrote:

> the toplevel namespace (I don't think Perl has the concept of namespace,

I think it does, and, like C++, it uses :: to indicate that.


Alex


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Nov 28 10:47:18 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 09:47:18 -0600
Subject: Replacing words from strings except  'and' / 'or' / 'and not'
In-Reply-To: <20041127182802.17481.1840580316.divmod.quotient.8311@ohm>
References: <coaeus$3pk$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<20041127182802.17481.1840580316.divmod.quotient.8311@ohm>
Message-ID: <16809.62214.482365.427544@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> > Is there a reason to use sets here? I think lists will do as well.
    >> 
    >> Sets are implemented using dictionaries, so the "if w in KEYWORDS"
    >> part would be O(1) instead of O(n) as with lists...
    >> 
    >> (I.e. searching a list is a brute-force operation, whereas
    >> sets are not.)

    Jp>   And yet... using sets here is slower in every possible case:
    ...
    Jp>   This is a pretty clear example of premature optimization.

I think the set concept is correct.  The keywords of interest are best
thought of as an unordered collection.  Lists imply some ordering (or at
least that potential).  Premature optimization would have been realizing
that scanning a short list of strings was faster than testing for set
membership and choosing to use lists instead of sets.

Skip


From ggg at zzz.it  Sun Nov 28 16:13:32 2004
From: ggg at zzz.it (deelan)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 22:13:32 +0100
Subject: Newbie MySQLdb / MySQL version problem, I think
In-Reply-To: <q5idnQ4l3bB-gTfcRVn-hQ@rcn.net>
References: <q5idnQ4l3bB-gTfcRVn-hQ@rcn.net>
Message-ID: <I9rqd.36289$B06.35944@news.edisontel.com>

Dave Merrill wrote:
> Sorry for the newbness... Win2K, Python 2.3.3, MySQL 4.1.7. Downloaded and
> extracted MySQL-python-1.0.0.win32-py2.3.zip. Put the whole extracted
> directory into C:\Program Files\Python23\Lib\site-packages\ and renamed it
> to "MySQLdb.
> 
> MySQLdb.__version__ returns '1.0.0', so I think it's installed ok.
> 
> However, I still can't connect, and I just want to confirm my guess on what
> the problem is, which is that MySQLdb doesn't yet support MySQL 4.1. I'd
> hoped that all that meant was that it wouldn't support any of 4.1's new
> features, but it appears this combination may be completely non-functional.
> Test and results below.
> 
> Has anyone else tried this?
i'm under the impression that binary 1.0.0 can only connect to 4.0 or
3.x mysql server installations.

there's must something written on the docs, IIRC it depends
on which version of mysql client lib the mysqldb has been compiled
against.

since the v1.0.0 comes pre-complied on windows i think this is
the problem.

bye.

-- 


From mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net  Thu Nov 11 19:38:54 2004
From: mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net (Jean Brouwers)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 00:38:54 GMT
Subject: pickle: huge memory consumption *during* pickling
References: <cn00o5$r0j$1@fuerst.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<mailman.6272.1100201176.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <111120041639473294%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>


Good point.  Double check first that you use

- import cPickle

- cPickle.dump(<obj>, <file>, 2)  # note, protocol 2

/Jean Brouwers
  ProphICy Semiconductor, Inc.



In article <mailman.6272.1100201176.5135.python-list at python.org>,
Gerrit <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote:

> Hans Georg Krauthaeuser wrote:
> > Today morning we reached the situation that it took 6 hours to pickle 
> > the class instance. The pickle file was than approx. 92 MB (this is ok). 
> > During pickling the memory consuption of the python proccess was up to 
> > 450 MB (512 MB RAM -> machine was swapping all the time).
> > 
> > My class use data types taken from a c++ class via swig. Don't know if 
> > that is important...
> > 
> > My feeling is that I'm doing something wrong. But my python knowlegde is 
> > not so deep to see what that is.
> > 
> > Is there an other way to perform an autosave of an class instance? Shelve?
> 
> Are you sure you are using cPickle as opposed to pickle?
> 
> regards,
> Gerrit Holl.


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Tue Nov  9 06:56:32 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 9 Nov 2004 11:56:32 GMT
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
Message-ID: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

I have had a look at the signal module and the example
and came to the conclusion that the example wont work
if you try to do this in a thread.

So is there a chance similar code will work in a thread?

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Tue Nov 30 09:18:53 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:18:53 +0100
Subject: weird behaviour of "0 in [] is False"
In-Reply-To: <761416895.20041130151527@geochemsource.com>
References: <pan.2004.11.30.12.57.59.582543@nospam.logilab.fr>
	<cohrvl$7eg$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<pan.2004.11.30.13.32.55.103783@nospam.logilab.fr>
	<761416895.20041130151527@geochemsource.com>
Message-ID: <272992792.20041130151853@geochemsource.com>

Tuesday, November 30, 2004, 3:15:27 PM, you wrote:
>>>>>>> (0 in l) is False
>>>> True

> This gives me the same exception.

>>>> 0 in 1
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: iterable argument required

Sorry, It was 0 in l, not 0 in 1. :-)
My fault.

> Best,

>    Laci

mailto:gandalf at geochemsource.com
web:http://designasign.biz





From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Wed Nov 10 03:48:10 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:48:10 +0200
Subject: unicodedata . normalize (NFD - NFC) inconsistency
References: <6rouo0timlrp4ddhoh88a38ftpekms75va@4ax.com>
	<2valh1F2igeo2U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3bi3p05t1lkdls6kuog5hqi0psiut8rrkq@4ax.com>

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 17:40:47 -0800, rumours say that Brion Vibber
<brion at pobox.com> might have written:

>I've been spending some time lately writing a normalizer (in PHP of all 
>things -- yeesh!), and yes Unicode is a scary world. :)

...

>http://www.unicode.org/unicode/reports/tr15/#Primary_Exclusion_List_Table

Thanks for the pointer, very informative, explaining why the observed
behaviour is well inside the definition of Unicode.  Thanks go to Martin
also for taking a look at this.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
"Tssss!" --Brad Pitt as Achilles in unprecedented Ancient Greek


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Nov 19 19:09:06 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:09:06 -0800
Subject: Global variables in modules/functions
In-Reply-To: <cnltf7$ra6$1@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>
References: <cnltf7$ra6$1@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>
Message-ID: <419e9e02$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Aaron Deskins wrote:
> I'm trying to write program with a main.py and several functions 
> distributed in auxiliary *.py files. I've looked through the archives on 
> the 'global' keyword, but I'm still not sure how to get this right. I 
> want to be able to have some variables that can be accessed/changed by 
> many modules/functions.
The easiest way to do this is to create a module named "globals", and
have any modules wanting to work like:

import globals
...
def change_n():
     globals.n = 2

Here's an example.
____________
main.py
____________
import globals, change
globals.n = 1
change.change_n()
print globals.n
____________
change.py
____________
import globals
def change_n():
     globals.n = 2

There are ways to force python into doing what you want, but they are
fraught with peril.

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From python-url at phaseit.net  Mon Nov 22 17:08:06 2004
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:08:06 +0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Nov 22)
Message-ID: <mailman.6724.1101222411.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>

QOTW:  "[W]riting C code is typically the least time-consuming part of
any language feature."  Tim Peters

"Best way to discourage visual basic knock offs, is to try and use visual
basic, in my opinion."  Eddie Parker


    You can use no-cost compilers to build extensions for 2.4
    under Windows in a reasonably standard way.
        http://www.vrplumber.com/programming/mstoolkit/

    Ipython's so desirable people (all but) abandon zsh and allied *sh.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=right&th=1831549887c79e

    Comp.lang.python has been talking about decorators for months.
    A C++ perspective through templates (notice Diez B. Roggisch's
    example of how C++ creates pain) leads back to decorators and
    generics.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=fe2717900f2a9312

    Is there value in lighter-weight syntax checking than, say, 
    pycheck provides?  In any case, Ian Bicking shows that it's
    at hand now.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=eaef717078406f39

    Exceptions are IMPORTANT.  Peter Hansen, Roy Smith, Andrew Dalke, and
    others help those coming from outside Python to think clearly about
    exceptions.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=96be282f14e5d437

    Python defines signal-handling in a way that makes correct behavior
    relatively easy to maintain.  Tim Peters explains that painful 
    experience has taught the wisdom of this approach (and avoidance of
    HP-UX "features", incidentally).  Along the way, he gives stylistic
    advice on threads, queuing, ...
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=d56763f5f3d9823f
    

========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
    action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

    Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
        http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
       
    Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
	http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
	http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
	http://python.de/backend.php
    For more, see
	http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.




From gerrit.muller at embeddedsystems.nl  Wed Nov 17 05:04:13 2004
From: gerrit.muller at embeddedsystems.nl (Gerrit Muller)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:04:13 +0100
Subject: seeking a new host for the "Python Grimoire"
In-Reply-To: <b16e4ef7.0411161729.51e2ea80@posting.google.com>
References: <b16e4ef7.0411161729.51e2ea80@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cnf7mt$adl$1@news.tue.nl>

> The "Python Grimoire" was developed and released by Andrew M. Kuchling
> in May, 1999. However, it never reached a stage where Andrew felt that
> it was ready for publication, and eventually he withdrew it. I had
> found the Grimoire helpful when I was learning Python, however, and I
> persuaded Andrew to allow me to take over maintenance of the Grimoire
> in August, 2002.  Since then it has been available at:
> 
>     http://www.ferg.org/grimoire/grimoire.html
> 
> I am no longer able, however, to devote the time necessary to maintain
> the Grimoire and bring it up to date, so I am planning to take it down
> from my Web site.
> 
> If you would like to take over the hosting and maintenance of the
> Grimoire, please contact me, Steve Ferg, at steve at ferg.org.
Stephen,

I didn't know this resource. It looks nice. Why take it down? It looks 
valuable as is. Maybe you should add a warning that it is no longer 
maintained and that volunteers are welcomed at the top?

kind regards, Gerrit

-- 
Gaudi systems architecting:
<http://www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/>



From pdmurray at ntlworld.com  Wed Nov 10 20:58:35 2004
From: pdmurray at ntlworld.com (Peter Murray)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 01:58:35 -0000
Subject: Sorting email addresses by domain
Message-ID: <20041111015848.QUUY10582.aamta03-winn.mailhost.ntl.com@Bender>

Hi! I hope someone can assist me, I have been using Python for a year or
two, but I am not a programmer and only use it occasionally for small issues
or just for fun. So I perhaps do not have the right 'mindset' to always see
the answer to a problem.

Anyway, I have a list of email address and I want to sort them by domain.
List.sort() wont work as this looks at the start of each address only. So
the answer I have come up with is to split each email address around the
"@", swap the position of the name and domain, build a new list with these
and then sort this. Then switch positions back, and join with an "@". It
works, but it seems a little inelegant. Is there a better, or easier way to
do this?

Code is below. Thanks for any comments!

Pete.

def sortlist(addresslist):
    l1 = []
    for i in addresslist:
        temp = i.split("@")
        temp[0], temp[1] = temp[1], temp[0]
        l1.append(temp)
    l1.sort()
    l2 = []
    for i in l1:
	i[0], i[1] = i[1], i[0]
	temp = "@".join(i)
	l2.append(temp)
    return l2





From ndeskins at ecn.purdue.edu  Fri Nov 19 17:52:23 2004
From: ndeskins at ecn.purdue.edu (Aaron Deskins)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:52:23 -0500
Subject: Global variables in modules/functions
Message-ID: <cnltf7$ra6$1@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>

I'm trying to write program with a main.py and several functions 
distributed in auxiliary *.py files. I've looked through the archives on 
the 'global' keyword, but I'm still not sure how to get this right. I 
want to be able to have some variables that can be accessed/changed by 
many modules/functions.

Here's an example.

____________
main.py
____________
import change
n = 1
change.change_n()
print n

____________
change.py
____________
def change_n():
     global n
     n = 2


Running main.py gives this: 1. So n is not being changed when the 
function is called. I've tried adding a 'import from main *' line to 
change.py, but this only gives an error message.

Any ideas?

Thanks


-- 
Aaron Deskins
Graduate Student
Chemical Engineering
Purdue University


From roy at panix.com  Mon Nov 22 07:56:55 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 07:56:55 -0500
Subject: Wrapping a C library in Python
References: <roy-99F088.20103518112004@reader1.panix.com>
	<e253918f.0411190823.25921d6b@posting.google.com>
	<roy-2665D7.13444420112004@reader1.panix.com>
	<hdnip9ey.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <roy-24C5BE.07565522112004@reader1.panix.com>

In article <hdnip9ey.fsf at python.net>,
 Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote:

> > Am I missing something obvious here?
> 
> It's simple.
> First, you define the structure:
> 
> import ctypes
> class dm_handle(ctypes.Structure):
>     _fields_ = [....] # whatever is is
> 
> Then, create an instance (this will allocate memory internally)
> 
> my_handle = cm_handle()
> 
> and finally call the function, pssing it a pointer to the structure:
> 
> mydll.create_dm_handle(ctypes.byref(my_handle))

I guess that makes sense.  In my case, however, the structure has about 
20 elements, many of which are user-defined types.  Building the correct 
ctypes.Structure description would be a bit of work, and it would 
certainly violate the rule of "once and only once".  If the underlying C 
structure changed, I'd have to update my Python code to match.

Since the handle is opaque, I don't need to know about the innards of 
the structure at all.  What I ended up doing was writing a little C 
routine something like this:

dm_handle *allocate_dm_handle ()
{
   return malloc (sizeof (struct dm_handle));
}

I then built a .so containing just that one routine, and used ctypes to 
call it from Python to get my buffer.


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Thu Nov 11 15:12:51 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:12:51 -0500
Subject: I don't quite get this "string".find()
In-Reply-To: <d52c72d204111112045bb6758d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d52c72d2041111113644284154@mail.gmail.com>
	<1f7befae04111111571b3a88ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<d52c72d204111112045bb6758d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1f7befae041111121240e1c8f1@mail.gmail.com>

[Jaime Wyant]
> Ahh, I see it now.  It seems strange to me, but your find helped make
> sense of it.

Indeed, the only way to have "test".find("") *not* return 0 would be
to make a special case out of searching for an empty string.  If you
don't make a special case of it, 0 seems to be the necessary result.

> I guess I thought:
>
> 1) an empty string is like "nothing"
> 2) you can never find "nothing" in something
>
> But  I guess an empty string isn't nothing, but a string with no
> length.  Ahh, it's still darned strange :).

Consistency and strangeness often go together <0.7 wink>.  I find this
particular one ("every string starts with an empty string") strangest
in this context:

>>> "a" in "abc"
True
>>> "c" in "abc"
True
>>> "d" in "abc"
False
>>> "" in "abc"
True

In practice, my solution is not to search for empty strings <wink>.


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 24 12:14:14 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:14:14 GMT
Subject: How to get an item from a simple set?
References: <mzx7xo74.fsf@wgmail2.gatwick.eur.slb.com>
	<mailman.6756.1101311220.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41a4b73e.907105068@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:46:50 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

>
>    Pete> I have a set that contains one item.  What is the best way of
>    Pete> getting at that item?  Using pop() empties the set.  
>
>Do you want to enumerate all the items in the set?  If so:
>
>    for elt in s:
>        print elt
>
>If you just want to grab one arbitrary (though not random) item from the
>set, try:
>
>    elt = iter(s).next()
>
>Note that repeating this operation will always return the same item:
>
>    >>> s
>    set(['jkl', 'foo', 'abc', 'def', 'ghi'])
>    >>> iter(s).next()
>    'jkl'
>    >>> iter(s).next()
>    'jkl'
>    >>> iter(s).next()
>    'jkl'
>    >>> iter(s).next()
>    'jkl'
>
Lest someone else not realize that the operation you are repeating includes creating
a fresh initialized iterator each time, and you're just doing it as a way to grab one element:

 >>> s = set(['jkl', 'foo', 'abc', 'def', 'ghi'])
 >>> it = iter(s)
 >>> it.next()
 'jkl'
 >>> it.next()
 'foo'
 >>> it.next()
 'abc'
 >>> it.next()
 'def'
 >>> it.next()
 'ghi'
 >>> it.next()
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 StopIteration

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Nov  6 12:30:59 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 09:30:59 -0800
Subject: checking a thread has started
In-Reply-To: <eaac783a0411060558264beb07@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eaac783a0411060558264beb07@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041106092443.F851.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Deepak Sarda <deepak.sarda at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone.
> 
> I have run into something which I believe is a bug or a shortcoming of
> the threading.Thread module.
> 
> My program spawns 15 threads. For this I've creating a new class with
> threading.Thread as the base class. Then I create objects of this
> class and call their start() methods in a loop.
> 
> The program works fine when run locally in a shell. The problem starts
> when it is served through apache as a cgi program. I just can't get
> all the threads running. The constructor is properly called for each
> object but for some of them  - the run() method never gets called. I
> can get around this by introducing a delay in between calls to the
> start() methods of the fifteen objects (using time.sleep(2)).
> 
> I believe this bottleneck is due to Apache server - it just can't
> spawn so many threads so quickly. It just spawns seven threads and
> that's it.

Is it also possible that your threads are finishing before you get done
spawning them?


> My question is: how do I check whether a call to the start() method
> was successful? If there is a mechanism by which I can get this
> information - I can try restarting/recreating the thread.

lst = [(func, args, kwargs), ...]
i = 0
while i < len(lst):
    count = len(threading.enumerate())
    threading.Thread(target=lst[i][0],
                     args=lst[i][1],
                     kwargs=lst[i][2]).start()
    if len(threading.enumerate()) > count:
        i += 1
    else:
        #You really don't want this to loop as fast as it can.
        #1/100 of a second timeout will keep this from being a
        #processor hog...at least during thread startup.
        time.sleep(.01)


As an aside, are you sure you need 15 threads?  Seems a little over the
top to me.

 - Josiah



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov 16 01:51:25 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 06:51:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: int literals and __class__ (WAS: Is a list an instance of a class?)
References: <4197c013$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<ad052e5c.0411150401.2b215499@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041116T074908-102@post.gmane.org>

Dan Bishop <danb_83 <at> yahoo.com> writes:
> You don't have to ask *that* nicely.
> 
> >>> 1 .__class__  # notice the space
> <type 'int'>

Why does this work?  Or, perhaps my real question is why *doesn't* it work
without the space?  Pointers to the appropriate point in the docs would be
fine...  I assume it's something about making parsing easier...?

Thanks,

Steve



From just at xs4all.nl  Fri Nov  5 12:25:05 2004
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 18:25:05 +0100
Subject: How do you execute an OS X application (bundle) from Python?
References: <70bb9f8d.0411040250.1f4ac1a@posting.google.com>
	<69cbbef2.0411041513.120fc039@posting.google.com>
	<1gmrrsj.7ljqd6f3sgkfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<m24qk4ttl2.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>
	<1gms4py.c7p5cjeee3clN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<m2u0s4sb6e.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>
	<1gmsdlv.1fwilzkeutnhjN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <just-702A2C.18250505112004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <1gmsdlv.1fwilzkeutnhjN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>,
 aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

> But it's not just about configuration.  Much as I like tools such as
> Mail.App or MacSOUP, I resent _having_ to use their editors rather than
> my favourite editor; and Command-A, Command-C, open editor, Command-V
> (to start editing in my favourite editor the text that begins life in
> the editor integrated in such apps), and viceversa when I'm done (plus
> the closing of the editor), is about (at least) half a dozen more
> shortcut keystrokes than I should need for such a common task.  Any app
> that at some point makes me edit text, be it configuration stuff, an
> email, a post, a memo to myself (e.g. in iCal), whatever, _should_ offer
> a simple shortcut to let me delegate the editing to my favourite tool
> for the purpose, in my opinion.

Not quite what you ask for, but you may also be interested to learn you 
can customize OSX text editor key bindings globally:

   http://www.lorax.com/FreeStuff/TextExtras.html
   http://www.deepsky.com/~misaka/MacOSX/KeyBindings.html

I think this is only for Cocoa apps (such as TextEdit.app and Mail.app).

Just


From uche at ogbuji.net  Fri Nov 12 17:47:25 2004
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 14:47:25 -0800
Subject: get element text in DOM?
References: <mailman.6228.1100113797.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d116fbae.0411121447.406d766f@posting.google.com>

Juliano Freitas <jubafre at atlas.ucpel.tche.br> wrote in message news:<mailman.6228.1100113797.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> How can i get the text between the <teste> tags??
> 
> >>> xml = """<root><teste> texto </teste></root>"""
> >>> from xml.dom import minidom
> >>> document = minidom.parseString(xml)
> >>> document
>  <xml.dom.minidom.Document instance at 0x4181df0c>
> >>> minidom.getElementsByTagName('teste')
>  
> >>> element = document.getElementsByTagName('teste')
> >>> element
>  [<DOM Element: teste at 0x418e110c>]
> >>> element[0].nodeType
> 1
> 
> Juliano Freitas

http://lists.fourthought.com/pipermail/4suite/2004-November/013027.html

Verbatim:

"""
Or, ObTopic, for 4Suite recent CVS:

>>> from Ft.Xml.Domlette import NonvalidatingReader
>>> doc = NonvalidatingReader.parseString("<root><teste> texto
</teste></root>", 'urn:dummy')
>>> print doc.xpath('string(/root/teste)')
 texto

Simple and sweet IMHO.
"""

-- 
Uche Ogbuji                                    Fourthought, Inc.
http://uche.ogbuji.net    http://4Suite.org    http://fourthought.com
A hands-on introduction to ISO Schematron -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/edu/x-dw-xschematron-i.html
Schematron abstract patterns -
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-stron.html
Wrestling HTML (using Python) -
http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2004/09/08/pyxml.html
XML's growing pains - http://www.adtmag.com/article.asp?id=10196
XMLOpen and more XML Hacks -
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-think27.html
A survey of XML standards -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-stand4/


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Nov 18 12:01:34 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 17:01:34 GMT
Subject: Named tuples
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<1gnf6b7.nnqkns1c991f3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6520.1100738474.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10pntj5m0spvl3f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.6521.1100740991.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<hcUmd.520265$mD.141102@attbi_s02> <419c20da.344317031@news.oz.net>
	<k3Wmd.45854$V41.9126@attbi_s52>
	<mailman.6539.1100779323.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns95A58409D7845duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<mailman.6546.1100786294.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns95A5AD0E69061duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

>> An alternative would be so add a named argument to the tuple
>> constructor so we can do:
>> 
>>         return tuple(('1', '2'), names=('ONE', 'TWO'))
>> 
>> and that would set the __names__ property. If you allow this then you
>> can make the __names__ property readonly and the problem of
>> introducing a cycle in the __names__ attributes goes away.
> 
> I think that a better way to solve the problem is to create a names
> method on the tuple itself:
> 
> return ('1', '2').names('ONE', 'TWO')
> 
> It's shorter and clean, and avoids a potential argument against named
> parameters for the tuple constructor -- none of the standard
> contructors take named parameters to set extended behavior as far as I
> know.
> 
It doesn't have to be a named parameter, it could just be a second 
positional parameter but I think a named parameter reads better.

The problem with that is that you are still breaking the rule that tuples 
should be immutable. Currently there is no easy way to copy a tuple:

>>> a = (1, 2)
>>> b = tuple(a)
>>> b is a
True
>>> import copy
>>> b = copy.copy(a)
>>> b is a
True

Once I have a tuple I know it isn't going to change no matter what happens. 
You could say that the names method can only be called once, but even then 
the tuple is still changing after its creation and you are still going to 
have to introduce some way for me to take a tuple with one set of names and 
create a new tuple with a different set of names such as changing the 
behaviour of the tuple constructor and the copy.copy function.

Another way to avoid the named argument would be to provide tuple with a 
factory method. How about:

   return tuple.named((1, 2), ('one', 'two))


From danperl at rogers.com  Sun Nov 21 20:00:00 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:00:00 -0500
Subject: Small Database Needed
References: <mailman.6669.1101048884.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<m7-dnTCpSK1MqDzcRVn-sA@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <FsydnTHKM5qLpzzcRVn-uA@rogers.com>

Considering some recent discussions in this newsgroup about doing a search 
before asking questions, I realized I may just have been guilty of that 
myself.  So I did a search, even though it was after posting that previous 
message.  I found a few recent threads that are relevant also for the OP's 
question:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&threadm=mailman.711.1086704144.6949.python-list%40python.org&rnum=8&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dmetakit%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*%26c2coff%3D1%26scoring%3Dd%26selm%3Dmailman.711.1086704144.6949.python-list%2540python.org%26rnum%3D8

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&threadm=405109CE.503%40zoran.com&rnum=16&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dmetakit%26start%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*%26c2coff%3D1%26scoring%3Dd%26selm%3D405109CE.503%2540zoran.com%26rnum%3D16

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&threadm=mailman.255.1073698893.12720.python-list%40python.org&rnum=26&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dmetakit%26start%3D20%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*%26c2coff%3D1%26scoring%3Dd%26selm%3Dmailman.255.1073698893.12720.python-list%2540python.org%26rnum%3D26

Hope this helps and my apologies for the long formatted links.

Dan


"Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote in message 
news:m7-dnTCpSK1MqDzcRVn-sA at rogers.com...
>I haven't used it myself, but at some point when I was looking for a 
>database I thought this was a very interesting alternative: 
>http://www.equi4.com/metakit.html.  Eventually, I chose to forego databases 
>and just pickle a data structure.  Take a look at it and maybe it will suit 
>you.  On the other hand, I would like to hear any opinions from people who 
>have used it, I may decide to use it myself someday.
>
> Dan
>
> "Kevin McBrearty" <kmcbrearty at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
> news:mailman.6669.1101048884.5135.python-list at python.org...
>> Hello All,
>>
>> I'm looking at implementing DB in my program for
>> analysis of CAD (STL Files).  This database will
>> require the basic functionality.
>>
>> Query
>> Sort
>> Delete/Add Records
>>
>>
>> I did some looking at the DB packages out there. But,
>> I'm not interseted in setuping up some huge thing.  It
>> would be great if it is fast, but I can live with a
>> sub-optimal solution for the present.  My interest is
>> in getting it up and running.
>>
>> Since, I'm new to Python so please don't hold back on
>> the comments.
>>
>> Regards,
>>        Kevin
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
>> http://my.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>
> 




From strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu  Mon Nov 15 11:03:34 2004
From: strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:03:34 GMT
Subject: html parsing?  Or just simple regex'ing?
References: <pan.2004.11.10.01.37.41.879705@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<Michael.J.Fromberger-F600D4.15052711112004@localhost>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.15.16.04.02.657003@dcs.nac.uci.edu>

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:05:27 -0500, Michael J. Fromberger wrote:

> In article <pan.2004.11.10.01.37.41.879705 at dcs.nac.uci.edu>,
>  Dan Stromberg <strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu> wrote:
> 
>> I'm working on writing a program that will synchronize one database with
>> another.  For the source database, we can just use the python sybase API;
>> that's nice and normal.
>> 
>> [...]
>> 
>> 1) Would I be better off just regex'ing the html I'm getting back?  (I
>> suppose this depends on the complexity of the html received, eh?)
>> 
>> 2) Would I be better off feeding the HTML into an HTML parser, and then
>> traversing that datastructure (is that really how it works?)?
> 
> I recommend you look at BeautifulSoup:
> 
>   http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/
> 
> It is very forgiving of the typical affronts HTML writers put into their 
> code.

BeautifulSoup looks great.

Regrettably, I'm getting:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./netreo.py", line 130, in ?
    soup.feed(html)
  File "/Dcs/staff/strombrg/netreo/lib/BeautifulSoup.py", line 308, in feed
    SGMLParser.feed(self, text)
  File "/Web/lib/python2.3/sgmllib.py", line 94, in feed
    self.rawdata = self.rawdata + data
TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'list' objects

...upon feeding some html into the "feed" method.

This is with python 2.3.4, on an RHEL 3 system.

Am I perhaps using a version of python that is too recent?




From pdmurray at ntlworld.com  Sun Nov 14 06:48:00 2004
From: pdmurray at ntlworld.com (Peter Murray)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 11:48:00 -0000
Subject: Sorting email addresses by domain
In-Reply-To: <1gn8igv.5j4w6l18wns0wN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041114114809.WHUR6712.aamta04-winn.mailhost.ntl.com@Bender>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> I'd prefer DSU...:
> 
> def key(addr): return addr.split('@', 1)[::-1]
> 
> aux = [ (key(a), a) for a in addresses ]
> aux.sort()
> addresses[:] = [ x for __, x in aux ]

I hadn't appreciated reversing a sequence by using a slice with a step of -1
(to be honest, I hadn't remembered about the step at all! I am a newbie :-)

Interesting though that to get the whole sequence reversed, you have to use
seq[::-1], as if you actually specify the bounds, you would always miss out
the final item:

>>> "peter murray"[::-1]
'yarrum retep'
>>> "peter murray"[12:0:-1]
'yarrum rete'
>>> "peter murray"[12:-1:-1]
''

Because the slice is up to and not including the final item.

Sorry if this post is out of the thread, the NG is very bare on my news
server so I'm posting to the mailing list.

Pete.






From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Tue Nov  2 23:16:56 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 20:16:56 -0800
Subject: RadioBox in wxPython
In-Reply-To: <m3lldknlcw.fsf@g2ctech.com>
References: <417e0899@news.seeder.net>
	<mailman.5503.1098793300.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<KGEfd.35074$QJ3.3747@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<mailman.5542.1098850844.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<m3lldknlcw.fsf@g2ctech.com>
Message-ID: <1099455417.26364.3.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Tue, 2004-11-02 at 16:42 -0200, Jorge Godoy wrote:
> Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> writes:
> 
> > On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 03:34 +0000, StvB wrote:
> >> Do I have to go to 2.4 in order to start using wx.Control, versus wxControl 
> >> ?
> >
> > Yes.  But frankly, if you are going to upgrade, why not go to 2.5?  In
> > 2.4 the wx namespace is a hack.  In 2.5 it's the real thing.  Plus there
> > are plenty of other enhancements.
> 
> One reason is that the website states that 2.4 is the latest stable
> series, while 2.5 is the latest development series.

Right, but I've been using wx for several years and I can assure you
that the development branch is where you want to be.  It is no less
stable and tends to be far better functionality-wise.  The only possible
instability is in the API and frankly you'll only notice if you move
from 2.4 to to 2.5.

> WRT the hack, the wxwidgets people abandoned the changes there...  

But not the wxPython people, which is what we care about here ;)

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From listserver at tdw.net  Wed Nov 17 10:02:34 2004
From: listserver at tdw.net (Tim Williams)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:02:34 -0000
Subject: Email payloads help
Message-ID: <012801c4ccb6$785f1d30$ccbefea9@twilliams>


Can anyone point me to a good resource for help with extracting converting
email payloads , specifically converting charsets and the
Content-Transfer-Encoding.

TIA






From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Wed Nov 17 17:25:05 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 22:25:05 GMT
Subject: .pyc files...
References: <E1CTDp7-00050j-00@galvatron.kickingdragon.com>
	<mailman.6343.1100420001.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<x74qjsnj1o.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<slrncpkha7.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
	<x7fz39mrs8.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <slrncpnjq2.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 15:02:15 -0600, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
> Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se> writes:
> 
>> On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 16:48:51 -0600, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
...
>>> Better with $(: rm -rf $(find . -name '*.pyc').
>>
>> Yeah, but then you're bash-specific.  Or at least that rules sh, csh and
>> tcsh.
> 
> As has already been stated on the list, $() is POSIX.

Sorry, missed that.

> So sh has it. [...]

Solaris 8's /bin/sh doesn't.

> If you're scripting in csh or tcsh, you're making a
> fundamental mistake.

I don't.  I'm not even talking about writing scripts, just about deleting
.pyc files from your average Unix shell (although I hope not many people use
/bin/sh as their interactive shell, POSIX or not).

BR,
/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Nov 12 14:26:17 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:26:17 -0800
Subject: permuting letters and fairy tales
In-Reply-To: <34Skd.24295$KJ6.17501@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <67lld8kr76.fsf@aster.homelinux.net>
	<34Skd.24295$KJ6.17501@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4195217c$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Andrew Dalke wrote:
 >
Not to prolong this, but if you are dealing with camelCase:

> word_pat = re.compile('[' + string.letters + ']{4,}')

you might want to use:
     word_pat = re.compile('[' + string.letters + ']['
                           + string.lowercase + ']{3,}')


-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From gdamjan at gmail.com  Fri Nov 19 13:32:52 2004
From: gdamjan at gmail.com (Damjan)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:32:52 +0100
Subject: Python with Apache 2.0
References: <89cc6e1f.0411190632.2976b3e1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <306sikF2sueanU1@uni-berlin.de>

> Does python support threads safely along with Apache 2.0 in web
> applications.

Are you talking about mod_python?
If so, then yes. But note that Apache threads entering the python
interpreter (via mod_python) will be serialized on the GIL.


-- 
damjan


From okyoon at stanford.edu  Thu Nov 25 12:48:07 2004
From: okyoon at stanford.edu (Oh Kyu Yoon)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 09:48:07 -0800
Subject: Question about py2exe and matplotlib
Message-ID: <co55so$m4d$1@news.Stanford.EDU>

Hi!
I am making a small program using boa constructor.
This program converts fine into an exe file using py2exe.
Then, I embedded a figure canvas from matplotlib in a wxpython panel.
I followed the instructions given by py2exe wiki about matplotlib and tried
to convert to an exe file.
It first said several modules were missing.
I realized that those were modules that matplotlib or Numeric will try to
import
and then provide the codes on Import Error.
So I just deleted from "try:" to "except Import Error" so that matplotlib or
Numeric
will not try to import those libraries that are not installed.
Now py2exe is able to convert the program to an exe file.
But when I run it on Windows, it gives a runtime error.
Does anyone have any idea what I am doing wrong?
Thank you.

Ohkyu




From benji at benjiyork.com  Sat Nov  6 10:18:17 2004
From: benji at benjiyork.com (Benji York)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 09:18:17 -0600
Subject: Python OS
In-Reply-To: <cmiorc$j4b$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmin1n$500$02$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6003.1099752590.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmiorc$j4b$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <418CEB39.5040606@benjiyork.com>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Hm. I'll reread them myself and see if what has been achieved in this field.
> But I seriously doubt that someone took a python interpreter and started
> writing an OS. 

I am aware of at least one attempt.  See 
http://cleese.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/moin.cgi and the mailing list 
archive.  They managed to boot a specially modified VM and run simple 
Python programs.  Unfortunately the project was abandoned about a year ago.
-- 
Benji York
benji at benjiyork.com



From deets.nospaaam at web.de  Tue Nov  9 08:23:47 2004
From: deets.nospaaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 14:23:47 +0100
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<tyfekj44shs.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxizh.3rip5na92f0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyfacts4of3.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxn7d.19o8q51jt2gu5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<wtww9u4p.fsf@python.net> <cmo88k$1ot$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<tyfoei72yxd.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <2vbunuF2kakbcU1@uni-berlin.de>

> I don't think so. Given that the _definition_ of the function is in
> the header, and the header is needed to compile any code which might
> want to link with the library, the compiler has all it needs, without
> a need for a corresponding function to exist in the library.

It has been a while, but I think what happened when including such a header
on several locations that produced .o-files was that a duplicate symbol
problem arised on linking time. Why would there be a symbol at all, when
the code got "pasted" into the callee's code? 

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Mon Nov 29 14:30:18 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:30:18 +0100
Subject: httplib question
Message-ID: <883978369.20041129203018@geochemsource.com>

Hello,

This is from the docs, from section 11.6.1 (HTTPConnection Objects)

HTTPConnection instances have the following methods: 
request( method, url[, body[, headers]])
[.....]
The headers argument should be a mapping of extra HTTP headers to send with the request.


AFAIK the only standard mapping type is the dictionary type.
I'm trying to do this:

>>> import httplib
>>> AGENT_MSIE     = "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.2; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)"
>>> HOST           = "www.google.com"
>>> URL            = "http://"+HOST+"/"
>>> headers = {}
>>> headers["User-Agent"] = AGENT_MSIE
>>> conn = httplib.HTTPConnection(HOST)
>>> conn.request("HEAD", URL, headers)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "C:\Python23\lib\httplib.py", line 718, in request
    self._send_request(method, url, body, headers)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\httplib.py", line 742, in _send_request
    self.send(body)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\httplib.py", line 576, in send
    self.sock.sendall(str)
  File "<string>", line 1, in sendall
TypeError: sendall() argument 1 must be string or read-only buffer, not dict

What should I pass instead of a dict?
  

-- 
Best regards,
 Laszlo                          

mailto:gandalf at geochemsource.com
web: http://designasign.biz





From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Tue Nov  9 08:02:24 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 08:02:24 -0500
Subject: possible to pass python objects into java without jython?
In-Reply-To: <4190A2DE.6040505@acm.org>
References: <4190A2DE.6040505@acm.org>
Message-ID: <4190BFE0.5080507@bellsouth.net>

Maurice Ling wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have read that this had been asked before but there's no 
> satisfactory replies then.
>
> I have a module (pA) written in python, which originally is called by 
> another python module (pB), and passes a python object (pO) to pB. Now 
> I require pA to be called in a java class (jC) and pass pO into jC. As 
> pA uses non-python modules, I am not able to use Jython on this.
>
> Are there any way out in this?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Maurice

How about:

    * XMLRPC
    * SOAP
    * a messaging queue of some sort (pA or pB - I'm a little unclear on
      which is the starting point - could put pO in a message queue and
      jC could pick it up)
    * serialize the Python object to disk in an intermediate format
      (say, XML) and have the Java process pick it up
    * CORBA

Without more details, and some clarification, that's the best I can do.  
Are you sure you meant to say pA is called by pB, or is it the other way 
around?  If pA is being called, it really can't pass pO to pB, unless 
you've got a callback setup.


Jeremy Jones
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From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov 19 16:56:35 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:56:35 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6614.1100891946.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.6614.1100891946.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <419E6C13.1040508@v.loewis.de>

Neal D. Becker wrote:
> Doesn't Python (along with probably every other language ever invented)
> display prior art here?

Wrt. claim 1, yes. Actually, C is prior art here: you have two
expressions representing pointers, and you have a system where
you can determine that the pointers refer to different memory
locations.

Wrt. claim 2, nothing is prior art.

Wrt. claim 3, Python is *not* prior art, because Python's operator
is the two keywords "is not", not the single keyword "IsNot". Paragraph
[0050] elaborates that the claim extends beyond the literal spelling
they give (e.g. to "is_not", "isnot" etc.), but apparently not to
having the operator written with *two* keywords. C is also not prior
art, because the operator (==) is not written in letters.

Wrt. claim 4, both C and Python are prior art (although it is debatable
whether Python features an "executable-generator").

Wrt. claim 6, I don't know. In Python, does the parser "determine if the
operator is preceded by and followed by an operand"? Grammar/Grammar
reads

comparison: expr (comp_op expr)*

Assuming that, in Python, expr denotes operands, one may claim prior
art. OTOH, apparantly, VB is not written with a formal grammar, so
the parser seems to determine that by imperative logic (which the Python
parser does not).

and so on.

Regards,
Martin


From stock4069 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 27 22:18:29 2004
From: stock4069 at yahoo.com (Mark)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 22:18:29 -0500
Subject: Formatted numerical output
Message-ID: <Bsbqd.1221$i6.799@news.itd.umich.edu>

How do I output formatted numerical data to an external (text) file. At 
a minimum I want to specify the number of decimal places to print. 
Ideally I'd like the type of control the fortran FORMAT statement 
offers. I'm sure this is easy, but I can't seem to find the answer!

I want an output file to look like this:

0.1   0.8575
0.2  12.0900
0.4 345.0000
0.5   9.0002

etc.

Thanks,

Mark


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Nov 12 14:40:34 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:40:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: permuting letters and fairy tales
References: <67lld8kr76.fsf@aster.homelinux.net>
	<34Skd.24295$KJ6.17501@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4195217c$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <loom.20041112T203805-224@post.gmane.org>

Scott David Daniels <Scott.Daniels <at> Acm.Org> writes:
> 
> Not to prolong this, but if you are dealing with camelCase:
> 
> > word_pat = re.compile('[' + string.letters + ']{4,}')
> 
> you might want to use:
>      word_pat = re.compile('[' + string.letters + ']['
>                            + string.lowercase + ']{3,}')

Is there any reason not to use [A-z] type regexps?

>>> p = re.compile('[' + string.letters + ']{4,}')
>>> p.findall('fd 234 asdf454 asdfsa4 sadf Qsdha asdfAded')
['asdf', 'asdfsa', 'sadf', 'Qsdha', 'asdfAded']
>>> p = re.compile('[A-z]{4,}')
>>> p.findall('fd 234 asdf454 asdfsa4 sadf Qsdha asdfAded')
['asdf', 'asdfsa', 'sadf', 'Qsdha', 'asdfAded']

>>> p = re.compile('[' + string.letters + ']['+ string.lowercase + ']{3,}')
>>> p.findall('fd 234 asdf454 asdfsa4 sadf Qsdha asdfAded')
['asdf', 'asdfsa', 'sadf', 'Qsdha', 'asdf', 'Aded']
>>> p = re.compile('[A-z][a-z]{3,}')
>>> p.findall('fd 234 asdf454 asdfsa4 sadf Qsdha asdfAded')
['asdf', 'asdfsa', 'sadf', 'Qsdha', 'asdf', 'Aded']

Seems to do the same thing to me, and doesn't require importing string (which
will hopefully be deprecated one of these days...) =)

Steve



From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Wed Nov 24 13:45:39 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 18:45:39 GMT
Subject: teaching OO
References: <slrncq8inq.9gv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<WU0pd.19552$ld2.4789270@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <slrncq9lmj.npu.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>

>  If the students wouldn't be getting immersed in C++ otherwise, I don't think
>  I would have made the switch, and may have continued not using any Python

ah, here they won't necessarily be confronted with c++ any more.
more likely java.
and they won't have any dedicated programming classes at all any more.

Cheers,
gab.


-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| There are works which wait,                                             |
| and which one does not understand for a long time; [...]                |
| for the question often arrives a terribly long time after the answer.   |
|                                                         (Oscar Wilde)   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From David  Sat Nov  6 01:57:25 2004
From: David (David)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 23:57:25 -0700
Subject: JMS for CPython via JPype?
References: <1b2k1czwwox4i$.ae466jlsmeu2$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <n4soo0t5hf838mtjb3cjp9jiu8rrqmu0pm@4ax.com>

On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 18:19:25 +0100, Wolfgang Keller
<wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>sorry for the potentially dumb question, but - would JPype make it possible 
>for a CPython program to use JMS? It seems that JMS is going to become a
>standard for (java-based) MOM, so as an excellent middleware language it
>should be possible for CPython to somehow "talk" (and understand) JMS...
>

Your question intrigued me, so I gave it a try. And the anwer (at
least for JMS Publish/Subscribe TextMessages) is YES.

The example I wrote is too long to include here, but you can get it at
http://home.comcast.net/~david.g.morgenthaler/Jpypejms.zip. It
includes:
- Java classes for a publisher (src/messaging/JpypePublisher) and a
subscriber (src/messaging/JpypeSubscriber). These Java classes, which
do most of the dirty work of connecting to the JMS server, are used
from python via jpype.
- Java classes that test the publisher and subscriber
(src/messaging/testJpepePublisher, src/messaging/testJpypeSubscriber)
- A Java interface that is used by python for the JProxy
- python scripts for publishing and subscribing
- An build.xml for ant to build and run the Java classes

The  Java and python publishers and subscribers work in any reasonable
combination (J pub/J sub, J pub/p sub, p pub/p sub, p pub/J sub, and
even with multiple subscribers)

Unzip to a conveniently located folder. You'll find a build.xml for
ant to build the Java. You'll have to edit (in the testers and in the
python scripts) the naming and connection factory stuff for your
situation. You'll also have to edit the python scripts to correctly
locate your jvm and other classpath information. Once you're correctly
configured, you can use ant to build and/or execute the Java (type
"ant help"). And once the Java is built, you can try the python
versions.

I can't imagine that this approach wouldn't work for JMS Queues. And
while I haven't tested it, I don't see anything preventing the use of
other message types (BinaryMessage, ObjectMessage,...).

BTW, I don't detect any noticable slowdown in the python versions from
the Java versions (probably because of the strightforward conversion
of python strings to Java Strings).

HTH,
Dave



From PeterAbel at gmx.net  Fri Nov  5 15:44:54 2004
From: PeterAbel at gmx.net (Peter Abel)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 12:44:54 -0800
Subject: deref in a string into an operand
References: <pan.2004.11.05.08.00.19.364836@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <21064255.0411051244.6b17278c@posting.google.com>

John Doe <atterdan at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.11.05.08.00.19.364836 at yahoo.com>...
> I've got the action '+' stored as the variable 'plus',
> that is plus='+'
> 
> Now I want to use the variable plus in an equation:
> 5 plus 7, just line 5 + 7
> 
> How do I do that?
> 
> Dan

If you want a string:
equation = '5 '+plus+' 7'

or 

equation = '5 %s 7' % plus

Regards
Peter


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Nov 19 18:38:21 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:38:21 -0800
Subject: Events
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6626.1100901854.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <MPG.1c08708d5ec6746c989688@news-server>
	<mailman.6626.1100901854.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10pt0obcqm6l1b3@corp.supernews.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:

>For AddListener, the handy idiom for appending a new listener to a possibly 
>non-existent list of current listeners is
>    self.listeners.get(event, []).append(listener)
>  
>

This bit doesn't actually work.

When event isn't found in self.listeners, you create a new, empty 
list.... but that list is never bound as a value in self.listeners.  And 
even if you add a 'self.listeners = ...' to that line, you'll still have 
the problem that list.append() returns None -- you'll overwrite 
self.listeners with that None.

If you use listeners.setdefault() instead, though, it works just as you 
have it --

 >>> listeners = {}
 >>> listeners.setdefault('OnClick', []).append('foo')
 >>> listeners
{'OnClick': ['foo']}
 >>>

The difference between get() and setdefault() seems to be that get() 
simply returns a sentinel value if the requested key is missing, but 
setdefault() will create a key and assign that  value to it, and then 
return the (default) value of the (new) key.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Nov  1 16:22:27 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 14:22:27 -0700
Subject: List problem
In-Reply-To: <41860f36.1328806672@news.oz.net>
References: <mailman.5750.1099297311.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41860f36.1328806672@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <20041101140048.0C50.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 00:13:18 -0700, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
> 
> >I wasn't sure that I believed your statements in regards to Python's
> >cache performance, so I thought I'd give it a look...
>
> I'm not sure which statements you are referring to, but if it's about
> bad jobsharing between multiple processors, I don't think that's what's
> causing the result you get below. I get a similar slowdown after shuffling.

For some reason, when someone mentioned 'working set size', I got to
thinking of processor caches and not VM working sets.

Sorry about that, I had just gotten back from throwing a party, and my
brain was pretty fried.



Really the numbers I quoted don't show anything interesting in regards
to dual vs single processor performance, but it does show interaction
between processor caches and locality in Python programs.

When created, the original list has Python integers placed sequentially
in the integer free list, so when iterating over them, we get reasonable
cache performance.

After shuffled, we are basically doing random reads through the integer
free list; and since my processor's cache is so much smaller than the
integer free list, we observe a ~50% slowdown.

[snip]
> So how big an L2 cache? 512k bytes? How big is an int object? Even if type info is
> shared for an arena, it must be a value,refcount pair each at least, or 8 bytes.
> I guess I'd bet on no tricks for type info, so that's a pointer for that -> 12 bytes.

Though I could have sworn int objects each took 16 bytes, testing it out
(because I can't find the proper C source file in Python CVS) puts it at
12 bytes/int.  Curse my human brain.

[snip discussion of cache sizes, interleaving, etc.]

Anyways, it is interesting to note that Python does show the classic
memory locality and caching performance, even though it doesn't change
performance all that much.


 - Josiah



From mefjr75 at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 19 17:11:33 2004
From: mefjr75 at hotmail.com (M.E.Farmer)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 14:11:33 -0800
Subject: Importing files other than *.py
References: <mailman.6571.1100822530.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <18282ecb.0411191411.7fd36744@posting.google.com>

Ed Leafe wrote in message:
> If I have a Python script in a file named "burp.zz", is there any way 
> to import it into another script as you can with files named with the 
> .py extension?
> 	I looked at the imp module, but was not able to make it do what I 
> wanted. Is this possible, or is the py/pyc extension required?
>   Ed Leafe
Hello Ed,
You can import as usuall if you do this:
Save this to your path.

# zz_import.py
import imputil

# define your custom file handler
def handle_zz(filepath, fileinfo, filename):
    sourcefile = open(filepath, 'r')
    data = sourcefile.read()
    sourcefile.close()
    return 0, compile(data, filepath, 'exec'),{}

importer = imputil.ImportManager()
importer.add_suffix('.zz', handle_zz)
importer.install()
# end zz_import.py

Now do this in your code:
import zz_import #now you can import zz files
import burp

If module is not found it will raise an ImportError.

HTH,
    M.E.Famer


From caleb1 at telkomsa.net  Thu Nov 11 22:55:57 2004
From: caleb1 at telkomsa.net (Caleb Hattingh)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:55:57 -0500
Subject: I don't quite get this "string".find()
References: <mailman.6274.1100201807.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<opshb098fw1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
	<mailman.6284.1100205453.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <opshb2jjml1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>

Steven and Grant (Edwards)

Err...discrete math was never my strong point :)    Still, matching  
'emptiness' to non-emptiness is what conceptually raises the problem for  
me.  I am not convinced that because there are only 'so many places' to  
fit, one is restricted to a finite number of possibilities - simply  
because what we are trying fit is 'nothing'.

Of course, I make this claim on nothing more than a hunch and  
indigestion.  The field of discrete math must have resolved this kind of  
thing at some point, and I'll accept that position.  If that was in fact  
the position you two just presented, I apologise.

thx
Caleb



On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:37:26 +0000 (UTC), Steven Bethard  
<steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:

> Caleb Hattingh <caleb1 <at> telkomsa.net> writes:
>>
>> I don't know why the function was set up this way.  However, an empty
>> string can be found in an infinite number of places within any other
>> string.
>
> Infinite might be an exaggeration.  Since there are only a finite number  
> of
> indices into a string (len(s) + 1), there are only a finite number of  
> places an
> empty sting may be found in any given string:
>
>>>> s = 'abc'
>>>> s.find('')
> 0
>>>> s.find('', 1)
> 1
>>>> s.find('', 2)
> 2
>>>> s.find('', 3)
> 3
>>>> s.find('', 4)
> -1
>
> You can't, say, find the empty string somewhere between indices 1 and 2.
>
>
>> Also, if you want to check whether a string is empty, I do
>>
>> >>> "test" == ""
>> False
>
> An empty string evaluates to False in a boolean context, so you probably  
> don't
> usually want to actually test like this.  A couple of options:
>
>>>> s = ''
>>>> bool(s)
> False
>
>>>> s = ''
>>>> if s:
> ... 	print 'not empty'
> ... else:
> ... 	print 'empty'
> ... 	
> empty
>
> My suspicion is that any time you actually test against an empty string,  
> you're
> probably doing this in the context of an if statement or a while loop,  
> so you
> can simply use the string directly instead of testing anything.
>
> Steve
>



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 15 18:10:51 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:10:51 GMT
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<4195419b.303035081@news.oz.net>
	<slrncpgm80.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6381.1100534178.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <419933fc.152607187@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 10:56:15 -0500, Tim Peters <tim.peters at gmail.com> wrote:

>[Antoon Pardon]
>> ...
>> AFAIU the Queue module doesn't block on a full/empty queue when
>> a timeout is specified but goes in a loop sleeping and periodically
>> checking whether place/items are available. With signals that
>> can be sent to a thread the queue could just set an alarm and
>> then block as if no timeout value was set and either unblock
>> when place/items are available or get signalled when the timeout
>> period is over.
>
>The only things CPython requires of the *platform* thread implementation are:
>
>1. A way to start a new thread, and obtain a unique C long "identifier"
>   for it.
>
>2. Enough gimmicks to build a lock object with Python's core
>   threading.Lock semantics (non-rentrant; any thread T can release
>   a lock in the acquired state, regardless of whether T acquired it).

Would it be a big deal to give the acquire method an optional
timeout=floating_seconds keyword arg, and have e.g. thread_nt.h use
the timeout parameter in WaitForSingleObject? This could ripple up
to Condition.aquire etc. and provide improved waiting over polling.
(Of course, there's probably a number of polling processes going on
all the time in the average windows session, but why add ;-)
>
>Everything else is built on those, and CPython's thread implementation
>is extremely portable-- and easy to port --as a result.
>
Do you think just a lock timeout would make it significantly harder?

>Nothing in CPython requires that platform threads support directing a
>signal to a thread, neither that the platform C library support an
>alarm() function, nor even that the platform have a SIGALRM signal.
>
>It's possible to build a better Queue implementation that runs only on
>POSIX systems, or only on Windows systems, or only on one of a dozen
>other less-popular target platforms.  The current implementation works
>fine on all of them, although is suboptimal compared to what could be
>done in platform-specific Queue implementations.
>
>For that matter, even something as simple as threading.RLock could be
>implemented in platform-specific ways that are more efficient than the
>current portable implementation (which builds RLock semantics on top
>of #2 above).
So what do you think about a lock timeout. Just that would let you build
efficient terminatable substitutes for sleep and other timing things.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From peter at somewhere.com  Tue Nov  2 11:23:35 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 17:23:35 +0100
Subject: python backward incompatibilities
In-Reply-To: <8vudnfJCkdguDhrcRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
References: <cm80v0$ssg$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<mailman.5804.1099404042.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8vudnfJCkdguDhrcRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <cm8caq$a3v$1@swifty.westend.com>

Peter Hansen schrieb:
> David Goodger wrote:
[...]
>> PEP 290 would be a good start:
>> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0290.html
> 
> 
> In addition, read AMK's "What's New" pages and inverting
> might be a good next step: http://www.amk.ca/python/

PEP290 is what I was looking for. I'll also look into AMK's documents.
Thanks for your advice.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From wh2005 at web.de  Sat Nov 20 14:38:49 2004
From: wh2005 at web.de (wolfgang haefelinger)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 19:38:49 GMT
Subject: please ignore
References: <kHKnd.22741$jf.19368@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<419F7A97.5000303@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <d3Nnd.22929$jf.1061@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>

Uuupps, mea culpa!

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message 
news:419F7A97.5000303 at engcorp.com...
> wolfgang haefelinger wrote:
>> stupid test - please ignore
>
> Please do NOT use just any newsgroup for "test" postings.
> The only appropriate place to post such experiments is
> the newsgroup "misc.test".
>
> Thanks for your cooperation. 




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Tue Nov 30 15:34:17 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 15:34:17 -0500
Subject: module imports and memory usage
References: <coi223$ahu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <uvfbnhy9i.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Brad Tilley <bradtilley at gmail.com> writes:

> When memory usage is a concern, is it better to do:
> 
> from X import Y
> 
> or
> 
> import X

Depending on "Y", the latter can technically use less memory, but it's
likely to be fairly small and depends on how many symbols from that
module you want to have local bindings.  In general, it's not worth
worrying about.

For example, if module X has 1000 bound names in it, then doing an
"import X" loads the module and gives your current namespace a single
reference to the entire module.  If however, you do a "from X import
*" you still load the X module, but also get local names bound for
each of the names in the X module.  So you have double the references
to the objects created within X.  Those references take up space (for
the textual name and the pointer) in your current namespace's
dictionary.

But if you just do a "from X import Y" where Y is a single symbol,
then it's a wash because you get Y bound as a local namespace name,
but you don't have a reference to the module itself.  If you were to
import multiple symbols, then you'd have a few extra references locally.

Sometimes though it's not even the memory you can affect, but
performance.  One place where I did find this to be noticeable, for
example, was with wxPython, where older releases typically often did a
"from wxPython.wx import *" since all the wxPython names already had a
"wx" prefix.  But that yielded thousands of extra name bindings in the
local namespace.  Switching to "from wxPython import wx" and then
using "wx.XXX" instead of just "XXX" actually made a fairly dramatic
decrease in load time.  It did also drop memory because I had a bunch
of plugin modules, all of which were burning up a few thousand name
bindings for the same wxPython symbols.  Switching them to just use
the module reference was a noticeable savings in that case.

> Also, is there a way to load and unload modules as they are needed. I
> have some scripts that sleep for extended periods during a while loop
> and I need to be as memory friendly as possible. I can post a detailed
> script that currently uses ~ 10MB of memory if anyone is interested.

You can play tricks by manually deleting a module out of sys.modules,
but there's no guarantee that the memory will actually be released
(either by Python or the OS).  Unless you're working under very
specific external resources, I'd generally leave this to the OS.  It
will figure out when some of your working set is unused for extended
periods and generally it should end up in swap space if you actually
need the memory for something else.

-- David


From theller at python.net  Wed Nov  3 15:45:13 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 21:45:13 +0100
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
References: <cthoeigtdun.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
	<slrncohmqk.n07.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<TfOdna4IePwZexXcRVn-pA@powergate.ca>
	<TbadndhdMqHzaRXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
	<TbadndtdMqGHaBXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
	<6_qdnQZOZ_YYZRXcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
	<slrncoi7qs.dnr.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<E_udnZeXtbXWuxTcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5872.1099512105.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<OO-dncaCD70Y3BTcRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <pt2uy84m.fsf@python.net>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Thomas Heller wrote:
>> # raise exception in thread
>> print pythonapi.PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc(t, id(exc))
>
> I should note for the record that neither Thomas'
> example above nor even my more complex one
> (posted earlier, but unfortunately messed up on
> my news server so I can't reply to it), implements
> the required API fully.
>
> The docs for that function say that you should check
> the return value, and if it returns a value greater
> than 1, you must call it again with a NULL as the
> second argument (anyone know if None would be
> okay when using ctypes?), or you probably risk screwing
> up even more than this messy way of killing a
> thread will screw things up normally.

Correct.

And yes, None is the ctypes way to spell NULL (although it would accept
the interger 0 as well).

Thomas


From dmerrillq at usaq.netq  Tue Nov 30 08:05:55 2004
From: dmerrillq at usaq.netq (Dave Merrill)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 08:05:55 -0500
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.4 (final)
References: <mailman.6913.1101817983.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8sGdnQjN6qGu7THcRVn-3A@rcn.net>

Newb question: Is it possible/recommended  to have multiple versions of
Python installed simultaneously? Earlier, I installed 2.4rc1, and a number
of things in my 2.3.3 install stopped working. Are there known techniques
for managing multiple versions?

Thanks,

Dave Merrill




From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Mon Nov 15 16:05:24 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:05:24 -0300
Subject: round() to nearest .05 ?
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7BE0@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[tertius]

#- I'm trying to round my float total to the nearest .05 cents.
#- 
#- 12.01    should produce 12.00
#-   0.14    should produce 0.10
#-   2.28          "        2.25
#- 703.81         "        703.80
#- 
#- "%.02f"%100.0099 produces 100.01 (which I know is right)
#- No combination of round and/or "%.02f" works for me.

Don't understand. Shouldn't 0.14 produce 0.15? And 2.28, 2.30?


#- What's the best way to get there? Should I write a function 
#- to manage my 
#- rounding or is there a simpler/better way?

For this kind of math, don't use float, use Decimal:

    http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/module-decimal.html

You'll have exact accuracy and a lot of rounding modes.

If you can not upgrade to Py2.4 yet, but have 2.3.x, install the Decimal
package from http://sf.net/projects/sigefi/

.	Facundo

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From amk at amk.ca  Wed Nov  3 10:47:12 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 09:47:12 -0600
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
	<du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<4187b7a1$0$2383$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<QtOdnVh_Pq7-SRrcRVn-2g@speakeasy.net>
	<b16e4ef7.0411030604.603069ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <QcOdna8ftb0dYBXcRVn-rQ@speakeasy.net>

On 3 Nov 2004 06:04:44 -0800, 
	Stephen Ferg <steve at ferg.org> wrote:
> Admitted.  Or perhaps those with the skills needed for the work aren't
> able to undertake such a big job without financial support. That's why

I'm doubtful that waving money in the air will magically produce volunteers,
but who knows?  I suggest you present your proposal to the PSF; I suppose
the Board would be the group that would consider it.

--amk


From dthierbach at gmx.de  Mon Nov 29 05:09:53 2004
From: dthierbach at gmx.de (Dirk Thierbach)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 11:09:53 +0100
Subject: protocols, inheritance and polymorphism
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>
	<Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<YWKod.137814$HA.44609@attbi_s01>
	<donn-F6A9D8.11153623112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<tqadnT2kAIXJEj7cRVn-hA@rogers.com>
	<donn-F39B72.13183123112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<mqedndyH_YCYUT7cRVn-uQ@rogers.com>
	<donn-D778C1.17100223112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<786dnYZkrq-ieT7cRVn-tw@rogers.com> <1101273995.954137@yasure>
	<s4qdnUDCJoJ9vjncRVn-hA@rogers.com>
	<tyfhdnefhcf.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<41a6340f$0$307$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<tyfvfbsewc3.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch> <1101575782.366954@yasure>
	<20041128141522.995.0.NOFFLE@ID-7776.user.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20041129100953.88B.2.NOFFLE@ID-7776.user.dfncis.de>

Dirk Thierbach <dthierbach at gmx.de> wrote:
> Donn Cave <donn at drizzle.com> wrote:
>> Quoth Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch>:

>>> Specifically, dynamic polymorphism is impossible without dynamic
>>> typing.

> I haven't heard the term "dynamic typing" in this context, 

Sorry, that should have been "dynamic polymorphism".

- Dirk


From vinay_sajip at red-dove.com  Thu Nov  4 06:00:32 2004
From: vinay_sajip at red-dove.com (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:00:32 +0000
Subject: ANN: New configuration module released
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.04.09.03.20.767617@nospam.logilab.fr>
References: <2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5873.1099513574.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.04.09.03.20.767617@nospam.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <418A0BD0.7090707@red-dove.com>

Sylvain Thenault wrote:
> the "configuration" module in logilab's common library is doing this (make
> a bridge between optparse and ConfigParser). You give a kind of
> configuration schema to a configuration object and then it can be
> initialized from a configuration file and/or command line. Environment
> variable are not considered yet, but I don't think it would be hard to add
> this feature. The main problem is the lack of documentation, but if there
> is some interest I can post an usage example.

I'm interested to see how your bridging works.

Using the config module I released, access to environment variables is
very easy. Here's how:

1. Add the line

os : `os`

to your configuration (say, test.cfg).

2. Access it like this:

>>> from config import Config
>>> cfg = Config(file('test.cfg'))
>>> cfg.os.environ['OS']
'Windows_NT'

The point, of course, is that you can refer to environment variables
from elsewhere in your configuration, e.g.

temp_path: `os.environ['TEMP']`
work_file_prefix: $temp_path + `os.sep`

Best regards,


Vinay Sajip



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Mon Nov 15 02:22:07 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 07:22:07 GMT
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<4195419b.303035081@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <slrncpgm80.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

On 2004-11-12, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
> On 9 Nov 2004 11:56:32 GMT, Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote:
>
>>I have had a look at the signal module and the example
>>and came to the conclusion that the example wont work
>>if you try to do this in a thread.
>>
>>So is there a chance similar code will work in a thread?
>>
> Do you have a specific use in mind?

Any code that can block/run for unbounded time (in extention code)
and you wish to interrupt after a certain time out.

One thing where it could be usefull is the Queue module.

AFAIU the Queue module doesn't block on a full/empty queue when
a timeout is specified but goes in a loop sleeping and periodically
checking whether place/items are available. With signals that
can be sent to a thread the queue could just set an alarm and
then block as if no timeout value was set and either unblock
when place/items are available or get signalled when the timeout
period is over.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Nov 25 17:13:22 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 14:13:22 -0800
Subject: dictionary initialization
In-Reply-To: <slrncqciv9.ip7.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
References: <lIydnVF-WvXK3TvcRVn-jA@rogers.com>
	<slrncqciv9.ip7.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <20041125140708.FA23.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca (Weiguang Shi) wrote:
> 
> In article <lIydnVF-WvXK3TvcRVn-jA at rogers.com>, Dan Perl wrote:
> >I don't know awk, so I don't know how your awk statement works.
> It doesn't hurt to give it a try :-)
> 
> >
> >Even when it comes to the python statements, I'm not sure exactly what the 
> > ...
> I see your point.
> 
> >
> >You're saying that in awk a['hello'] is initialized to 0.  
> More than that; I said awk recognizes a['hello']++ as an
> arithmetic operation and initializes a['hello'] to 0 and add one to
> it. (This is all guess. I didn't implement gawk. But you see my point.)
> 
> > That would not be justified in python.  The type of b[1] is
> > undetermined until initialization and I don't see why it should be
> > an int by default.
> In my example, it was b[1]+=1. "+=1" should at least tell Python two
> things: this is an add operation and one of the operands is an
> integer. Based on these, shouldn't Python be able to insert the pair
> "1:0" into a{} before doing the increment?

As Peter has already mentioned, since b[1] doesn't exist until you
assign it, the type of b[1] is ambiguous.

The reason Python doesn't do automatic assignments on unknown access is
due to a few Python 'Zens'

>>> import this
The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters

Beautiful is better than ugly.
Explicit is better than implicit.
Simple is better than complex.
Complex is better than complicated.
Flat is better than nested.
Sparse is better than dense.
Readability counts.
Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.
Although practicality beats purity.
Errors should never pass silently.
Unless explicitly silenced.
In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess.
There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.
Although that way may not be obvious at first unless you're Dutch.
Now is better than never.
Although never is often better than *right* now.
If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea.
If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea.
Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!

Specifically:
Explicit is better than implicit.
  (you should assign what you want, not expect Python to know what you
  want)
Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.
  (incrementing non-existant values in a dictionary shouldn't be any
  different from accessing non-existant values)
In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess.
  (what class/value should the non-existant value initialize to?)


Learn the zens.  Any time you have a design question about the Python,
check the zens, then check google, then check here.

 - Josiah



From gustavo.cordova at q-voz.com  Tue Nov 30 09:47:19 2004
From: gustavo.cordova at q-voz.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gustavo_C=F3rdova_Avila?=)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 08:47:19 -0600
Subject: comment out more than 1 line at once?
In-Reply-To: <cohc71$2pqli$1@claire.desy.de>
References: <cohc71$2pqli$1@claire.desy.de>
Message-ID: <41AC87F7.4030704@q-voz.com>

Riko Wichmann wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> is there a way in Python to comment out blocks of code without putting 
> a # in front of each line? Somethings like C's
>
> /*
>     block of code here is commented out
> */
>
> Thanks,
>
>     Riko

I haven't seen the "other" way to block-comment multiple
lines of code: triple-quoted strings.

Strings which are unassigned in a source file are dropped
by the compiler, so they don't make it to the execution
stage; they're nice that way.
-- 
Gustavo C?rdova Avila <gustavo.cordova at q-voz.com> 
<mailto:gustavo.cordova at q-voz.com>
*Tel:* +52 (81) 8130-1919 ext. 127
Integraciones del Norte, S.A. de C.V.
Padua #6047, Colonia Sat?lite Acueducto
Monterrey, Nuevo Le?n, M?xico.


From edmond.rusjan at gmail.com  Sat Nov 20 20:47:50 2004
From: edmond.rusjan at gmail.com (Edmond Rusjan)
Date: 20 Nov 2004 17:47:50 -0800
Subject: Python-2.3.4 on OSF1 V4.0?
References: <9fbcd7cf.0411191154.453fb8ff@posting.google.com>
	<419e6590$0$562$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <9fbcd7cf.0411201747.1bfb160e@posting.google.com>

Martin,

Thank you for the pointers, I appreciate. Still not out of the woods
though ...

> 
> As a starting point, you need to find out what library you need to
> link in to provide these symbols. Strategies to find that out are
> 1. setsockopt(2)

man setsockopt does not mention any libraries  - guess that means it's
in libc

> 2. nm /usr/lib/*.a|grep setsockopt

$ nm  /usr/lib/*.a |grep setsockopt setsockopt                       |
setsockopt                       | 0000000000000000 | U |
0000000000000008
setsockopt                       | 0000000000000000 | U |
0000000000000008
setsockopt                       | 0000000000000000 | U |
0000000000000008
setsockopt                       | 0000000000000000 | U |
0000000000000008
__setsockopt                     | 0000000000000000 | U |
0000000000000008
__setsockopt                     | 0000000000000000 | U |
0000000000000008
/usr/lib/libc.a[setsockopt.o]:
__setsockopt                     | 0000000000000016 | T |
0000000000000008
setsockopt                       | 0000000000000016 | T |
0000000000000008
__setsockopt                     | 0000000000000000 | U |
0000000000000008
__setsockopt                     | 0000000000000000 | U |
0000000000000008
/usr/lib/libc_r.a[setsockopt.o]:
__setsockopt                     | 0000000000000016 | T |
0000000000000008
setsockopt                       | 0000000000000016 | T |
0000000000000008
setsockopt                       | 0000000000000000 | U |
0000000000000008
setsockopt                       | 0000000000000000 | U |
0000000000000008

man nm says T means external text, so if I am reading correctly this
confirms setsockopt is in libc


> 3. try -lsocket

$ find /usr -name libsocket.a
$ find /usr -name libsocket.so

Also,
$ c++ -pthread -o python Modules/python.o libpython2.3.a -lsocket -lrt
-lm
/usr/bin/ld:
Can't locate file for: -lsocket
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

On Sun, yes, it uses -lsocket and configure script figures that out.


Here's my little test program:

/*
*  to help build python
*  gcc  -o s s.c
*/
 
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <string.h>
 
#include <sys/types.h>
#include <sys/socket.h>
#include <netinet/in.h>
#include <unistd.h>
 
int
main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
   int ss, s, clilen, n, i;
   struct sockaddr_in cli_addr, serv_addr;
   char buf[512];
 
   if ( (ss = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0)) < 0 )
   {
      perror("can't open socket");
      exit(-1);
   }

   memset( &serv_addr, 0, sizeof(serv_addr));
   serv_addr.sin_family = AF_INET;
   serv_addr.sin_addr.s_addr = htonl(INADDR_ANY);
   serv_addr.sin_port = htons(12345);

   if ( bind( ss, (struct sockaddr *) &serv_addr, sizeof(serv_addr)) <
0 )
   {
      perror("can't bind to port\n");
      exit(-1);
   }

   listen(ss, 2);

   clilen = sizeof(cli_addr);
   s = accept( ss, (struct sockaddr *) &cli_addr, &clilen);

   if (s < 0)
   {
      perror("server accept error");
   }

   for ( i=1; ; i++)
   {
      memset( buf, 0, 512);
      if ( (n=read(s, buf, 512)) == 0) break;
      printf("%d th message: %s; length: %d \n", i, buf, n);
   }

   close(s);

   (void) printf("Hello socket!\n");

   exit(0);
}

Compiles and runs ... never have to specify any library to make socket
work:
$ gcc -o s s.c]$ ./s &
[1] 12491
$ netstat -a |grep 12345
tcp        0      0  *.12345                *.*                   
LISTEN
$ telnet 12345
Trying 0.0.48.57...


Perhaps comparing the succesful OSF1 V5.1 and failed OSF1 V4.0 buils
may help:

[V5.1]$ ./configure |grep socket
checking sys/socket.h usability... yes
checking sys/socket.h presence... yes
checking for sys/socket.h... yes
checking for socket in -lsocket... no

[V5.1]$ make |grep socket
building '_socket' extension
gcc -pthread -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes
-fno-strict-aliasing -I.
-I/dat0/ajb/app/edmond/src/buildSandbox/Python-2.3.4/./Include
-I/usr/local/include
-I/dat0/ajb/app/edmond/src/buildSandbox/Python-2.3.4/Include
-I/dat0/ajb/app/edmond/src/buildSandbox/Python-2.3.4 -c
/dat0/ajb/app/edmond/src/buildSandbox/Python-2.3.4/Modules/socketmodule.c
-o build/temp.osf1-V5.1-alpha-2.3/socketmodule.o
ld -shared -expect_unresolved *
build/temp.osf1-V5.1-alpha-2.3/socketmodule.o -L/usr/local/lib -o
build/lib.osf1-V5.1-alpha-2.3/_socket.so

[V5.1]$ find . -name _socket.so
./build/lib.osf1-V5.1-alpha-2.3/_socket.so

[V5.1]$ nm build/lib.osf1-V5.1-alpha-2.3/_socket.so |grep setsockopt
setsockopt                       | 0000000000000000 | U |
0000000000000000
setsockopt_doc                   | 0004398043894268 | d |
0000000000000000
setsockopt_doc:S1006=ar56;000000000000000000000000;000000000000000000000232;2
| 0004398043894268 | d | 0000000000000001
sock_setsockopt                  | 0004396970424912 | t |
0000000000000008
sock_setsockopt:f267             | 0004396970424912 | t |
0000000000000008


[V4.0]$ ./configure |grep socket
checking sys/socket.h usability... yes
checking sys/socket.h presence... yes
checking for sys/socket.h... yes
checking for socket in -lsocket... no


[V4.0]$ make |grep socket
building '_socket' extension
gcc -pthread -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes
-fno-strict-aliasing -I.
-I/u101/ajbddg/edmond/src/sandbox/Python-2.3.4/./Include
-I/usr/local/include
-I/u101/ajbddg/edmond/src/sandbox/Python-2.3.4/Include
-I/u101/ajbddg/edmond/src/sandbox/Python-2.3.4 -c
/u101/ajbddg/edmond/src/sandbox/Python-2.3.4/Modules/socketmodule.c -o
build/temp.osf1-V4.0-alpha-2.3/socketmodule.o
/u101/ajbddg/edmond/src/sandbox/Python-2.3.4/Modules/socketmodule.c:
In function `sock_accept':
/u101/ajbddg/edmond/src/sandbox/Python-2.3.4/Modules/socketmodule.c:1137:
warning: passing arg 3 of `accept' from incompatible pointer type
/u101/ajbddg/edmond/src/sandbox/Python-2.3.4/Modules/socketmodule.c:
In function `sock_getsockopt':
/u101/ajbddg/edmond/src/sandbox/Python-2.3.4/Modules/socketmodule.c:1361:
warning: passing arg 5 of `getsockopt' from incompatible pointer type
/u101/ajbddg/edmond/src/sandbox/Python-2.3.4/Modules/socketmodule.c:1379:
warning: passing arg 5 of `getsockopt' from incompatible pointer type
/u101/ajbddg/edmond/src/sandbox/Python-2.3.4/Modules/socketmodule.c:
In function `sock_getsockname':
/u101/ajbddg/edmond/src/sandbox/Python-2.3.4/Modules/socketmodule.c:1623:
warning: passing arg 3 of `getsockname' from incompatible pointer type
/u101/ajbddg/edmond/src/sandbox/Python-2.3.4/Modules/socketmodule.c:
In function `sock_getpeername':
/u101/ajbddg/edmond/src/sandbox/Python-2.3.4/Modules/socketmodule.c:1651:
warning: passing arg 3 of `getpeername' from incompatible pointer type
/u101/ajbddg/edmond/src/sandbox/Python-2.3.4/Modules/socketmodule.c:
In function `sock_recvfrom':
/u101/ajbddg/edmond/src/sandbox/Python-2.3.4/Modules/socketmodule.c:1898:
warning: passing arg 6 of `recvfrom' from incompatible pointer type
ld -shared -expect_unresolved *
build/temp.osf1-V4.0-alpha-2.3/socketmodule.o -L/usr/local/lib -o
build/lib.osf1-V4.0-alpha-2.3/_socket.so
*** WARNING: renaming "_socket" since importing it failed: Unresolved
symbol in build/lib.osf1-V4.0-alpha-2.3/_socket.so: _Esetsockopt

[V4.0]$ find . -name '_socket*'
./PCbuild/_socket.dsp
./build/lib.osf1-V4.0-alpha-2.3/_socket_failed.so

[V4.0]$ nm build/lib.osf1-V4.0-alpha-2.3/_socket_failed.so |grep
setsockopt
_Esetsockopt                     | 0000000000000000 | U |
0000000000000000
setsockopt_doc                   | 0004398043893924 | d |
0000000000000000
setsockopt_doc:S794=ar55;000000000000000000000000;000000000000000000000232;2
| 0004398043893924 | d | 0000000000000008
sock_setsockopt                  | 0004396970422608 | t |
0000000000000008
sock_setsockopt:f238             | 0004396970422608 | t |
0000000000000008

I don't understand if the '_E' in '_Esetsockopt' is significant and/or
where it comes from, but that's one difference that strikes me.

[V4.0]$ grep setsockopt Modules/socketmodule.c|wc
     11      39     498
[V4.0]$ grep _Esetsockopt Modules/socketmodule.c|wc
      0       0       0

Thank you in advance for your help.
Edmond


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Tue Nov 30 03:04:21 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 00:04:21 -0800
Subject: Random number generation from functions
In-Reply-To: <GZLqd.29561$1u.7448@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
References: <GZLqd.29561$1u.7448@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <coh9i8$4gt$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

drs wrote:
> Is there any way to generate random numbers based on arbitrary real valued
> functions? I am looking for something like random.gauss() but with natural
> log and exponential functions.

scipy[1] has a large collection of "standard" univariate pdfs, including 
normal, exponential, gamma, and the like.

One cannot generate random numbers from arbitrary real valued functions 
because a function needs to satisfy certain restrictions to be a pdf. 
For example, you cannot generate random numbers "with a log function", 
unless you restrict the domain and renormalize.

Generating random numbers from an arbitrary pdf is possible, but tricky. 
I encourage you to search the literature for "monte carlo sampling."

[1] http://www.scipy.org

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk  Thu Nov 25 11:39:50 2004
From: phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 16:39:50 -0000 (GMT)
Subject: Extending classes written in C++ using SWIG
In-Reply-To: <tyfzn16dk7x.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <99efe53b.0411250614.1f0c0e3c@posting.google.com>
	<tyfzn16dk7x.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <51241.82.68.80.137.1101400790.squirrel@82.68.80.137>

> tjordah at start.no (Lars Moastuen) writes:
>
>> class Bar
>> {
>> public:
>> 	Bar() {};
>> 	~Bar() {};
>> 	virtual char* DoBar() const { return "Bar"; };
>> };
>>
>> class Foo
>> {
>> public:
>> 	Foo() {};
>> 	~Foo() {};
>> 	virtual void DoFoo(Bar* someBar) { cout << someBar->DoBar() << endl;
>> };
>> };
>
>> class ExtendedBar(Bar):
>> 	def __init__(self):
>> 		Bar.__init__(self);
>>
>> 	def DoBar(self):
>> 		return "ExtendedBar";
>>
>> bar = ExtendedBar();
>> foo = Foo();
>> foo.DoFoo(bar);
>
>> I now expect to get "ExtendedBar" as output from UseFoo.py (since I've
>> declared DoBar() as virtual, but I get "Bar"
>
>> Can anyone tell me why?
>
> Because "someBar->DoBar()" uses the vtable of the C++ dynamic type to
> decide which actual DoBar method to call. Unfortunately there is no
> C++ type corresponding to your ExtendedBar, there is no vtable for
> your ExtendedBar type in C++. C++ only knows about C++ types; it is
> unaware of the existence of Python types. Inside your Python instance
> of ExtendedBar you are holding on to an instance of a C++ Bar.
>
>> Is there a way to remedy this??
>
> I don't know whether SWIG provides a boxed solution for this sort of
> problem. One approach is to override the DoBar method in a subclass of
> Bar in C++, and make that method pass the 'dispatch request' up into
> Python. Then you expose the wrapper class in Python, rather than Bar
> itself.
>
> It looks something like this:
>
> struct PseudoBar : public Bar {
>         PyObject* self; // the Python instance wrapping this C++ instance
>         void DoFoo () {
>                 PyObject_CallMethod(this->self, "DoFoo", "");
>         }
> };
>
> Of course, you'll need to augment this with checks to ensure that
> there really is something overriding the method, otherwise you'll end
> up in an infinite loop ... but hopefully you get the idea. It's all a
> bit tedious.

If SWIG really requires you to do this by hand (I'm surprised) then you
might want to look at SIP (http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/sip/). SIP
generates code that does exactly what you suggest so that bindings behave
as the OP was expecting.

Phil



From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Nov  4 07:38:15 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 07:38:15 -0500
Subject: SystemError: com_backpatch: offset too large
In-Reply-To: <781f5e76.0411032335.57bf5ae4@posting.google.com>
References: <781f5e76.0411032335.57bf5ae4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <lupid.5272$931.5140@lakeread01>

alban.minassian at wanadoo.fr wrote:

> (Sorry for my bad english )
> 
> I convert a php code to python. i have 10000 lines where i add and add
> and add string.... like var += "xxxxxx"
> 
> And line 5139 i have SystemError: com_backpatch: offset too large.
> All work except if i exceed line 5139 !
> 
> I dont find solution. I have only found this post
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=fr&lr=&client=firefox-a&threadm=mailman.165.1085189105.6949.python-list%40python.org&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dcom_backpatch%26hl%3Dfr%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26tab%3Dwg
> 
> There is a solution?
> Do i to give up python and return to php?
> 
> Thank for your help
> Alban

It might help if we had some idea what the code looked like around line 
5139, and if we knew the size of the data concerned, for example.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Nov 22 10:22:49 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:22:49 +0100
Subject: Small Database Needed
References: <mailman.6669.1101048884.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.22.15.22.49.115278@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Sun, 21 Nov 2004 06:54:40 -0800 schrieb Kevin McBrearty:

> Hello All,
> 
> I'm looking at implementing DB in my program for
> analysis of CAD (STL Files).  This database will
> require the basic functionality.

Hi,

I like ZODB. It is an object database for python.
It has the advantage, that you only need to know
one language: python. You don't need SQL.

The drawback: You can search in the database
with a loop over all objects, or you develop
yourself a small catalog which maps values
of attributes to a list (or btree) of objects.

If ZODB is too big for you (tgz is 1 MB), you might
try durus.

HTH,
 Thomas





From carribeiro at gmail.com  Fri Nov 26 07:00:52 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:00:52 -0200
Subject: PEP263 + exec statement
Message-ID: <864d3709041126040065c90e5d@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

I have a module that retrieves code snippets from a database to be
executed on the fly [1]. As I make heavy use of accented characters
inside strings (I'm in Brazil), it came to my attention that the exec
statement does not implement PEP 263 encoding checking. It does not
issue any warning when fed with arbitrary code that includes non-ASCII
characters. I am not sure if this is:

1) a design feature;
2) a bug on PEP 263 implementation;
3) a side effect of the fact that exec is not recommended anyway, and
that it will probably be deprecated at some point.

Does anyone have more information on this? I have tried Google in
vain. It seems that exec is not that popular (which is a good sign,
IMHO), and that nobody else had this problem before.

----
[1] yes, I know about the security concerns regarding exec, but that
was the best design choice for several other reasons.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Wed Nov 17 06:53:49 2004
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:53:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: inserting bracketings into a string
References: <mailman.6460.1100648300.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cnfe4d$san$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> writes:

>I'm trying to insert some bracketings in a string based on a set of
>labels and associated start and end indices.  For example, I'd like to
>do something like:

>>>> text = 'abcde fgh ijklmnop qrstu vw xyz'
>>>> spans = [('A', 0, 9), ('B', 6, 9), ('C', 25, 31)]
>>>> insert_bracketings(text, spans)
>'[A abcde [B fgh]] ijklmnop qrstu [C vw xyz]'

>My current implementation looks like:

>>>> def insert_bracketings(text, spans):
>... 	starts = [start for _, start, _ in spans]
>... 	ends = [end for _, _, end in spans]
>... 	indices = sorted(set(starts + ends))
>... 	splits = [(text[start:end], start, end)
>... 	          for start, end in zip([None] + indices, indices + [None])]
>... 	start_map, end_map = {}, {}
>... 	for label, start, end in spans:
>... 		start_map.setdefault(start, []).append('[%s ' % label)
>... 		end_map.setdefault(end, []).append(']')
>... 	result = []	
>... 	for string, start, end in splits:
>... 		if start in start_map:
>... 			result.extend(start_map[start])
>... 		result.append(string)
>... 		if end in end_map:
>... 			result.extend(end_map[end])
>... 	return ''.join(result)
>... 

>but it seems like there ought to be an easier way.  Can anyone help me?

def insert_bracketings (txt, spans):
    text = list(txt)
    for tg,start,end in spans:
        text[start] = '[%s %s'%(tg,text[start])
        text[end-1] = '%s]'%text[end-1]
    return ''.join(text)

print insert_bracketings('abcde fgh ijklmnop qrstu vw xyz',[('A', 0, 9), ('B', 6, 9), ('C', 25, 31)])

Might not give what you expect if two spans start at the same place but you
haven't defined that.

Eddie


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Nov 23 08:13:51 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:13:51 -0500
Subject: Text widget - insert line
In-Reply-To: <cntqav$jd4$1@news.newsland.it>
References: <cnt1el$san$1@news.newsland.it>
	<41a21527$0$8170$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<cnt8is$tt7$1@news.newsland.it> <30emukF2u6uf7U2@uni-berlin.de>
	<cntqav$jd4$1@news.newsland.it>
Message-ID: <2KGod.2017$QR.1630@lakeread01>

beps wrote:

> 
>>>def show_customers(self, customers) :
>>>##      data is a list
>>>        for data in customers:
>>>            dato = operator.concat(str(data), '/n')
>>
>>                                                 ^^
>>You have to use n, not /n.
> 
> 
>>Reinhold
> 
> 
> Yes, excuse me, this is my code now:
> 
>>>def show_customers(self, customers) :
>>>        #customers is a list
>>>        for data in customers :
>>>             self.text_wdgt.insert(0.0, data)
>>>             self.text_wdgt.insert(0.0, '\n')     
> 
> 
> but the following is the output :
> ---------------
> |data[last]
> |data[....]
> |data[....]
> |data[....]
> |data[first]
> |--------------
> 
> I must obtain the exact contrary :
> ---------------
> |data[first]
> |data[....]
> |data[....]
> |data[....]
> |data[last]
> |--------------
> 
> There's an error in the indices of insert() method of Text widget.
> The first data line one goes on the second and so on.
> I would have to obtain the exact index of the line end.
> But I have not still understood and tried like making.
> 
> If you have a ready example you show it to me, please.
> thanks for all
> 

This is happening because you are telling the widget to insert the new 
items at the start (0.0). If you replace this with END instead it should 
work as you want.

regards
  Steve

-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From craig at postnewspapers.com.au  Thu Nov 25 12:34:28 2004
From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 01:34:28 +0800
Subject: Use Python library from C++
In-Reply-To: <89cc6e1f.0411250913.67a37f4a@posting.google.com>
References: <89cc6e1f.0411241939.61a19596@posting.google.com>
	<41a5b79a$0$17605$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<89cc6e1f.0411250913.67a37f4a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1101404068.7219.7.camel@rasputin.localnet>

On Fri, 2004-11-26 at 01:13, Chang LI wrote:

> Yes. That is what I want (to launch Python Interpreter from C++ and use it)
> Where is the document?

http://docs.python.org/

Check out the C API reference and the embedding tutorial.

--
Craig Ringer 



From cajzell at hotmail.com  Sat Nov 20 08:07:48 2004
From: cajzell at hotmail.com (Caj Zell)
Date: 20 Nov 2004 05:07:48 -0800
Subject: perl -pi.bak  -e equivalent
Message-ID: <c9eae90e.0411200507.3b3e90e3@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I am looking a little bit at python and am curious of one thing I
often use in perl. Suppose, I want to change the string
"best_composer" to "Zappa" in a document called facts.txt, then in
perl I would do

perl -pi.bak  -e "s/best_composer/Zappa/;" facts.txt

Can I do that with python from the command line so easily?

Caj Zell


From danperl at rogers.com  Tue Nov 23 14:28:18 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:28:18 -0500
Subject: protocols, inheritance and polymorphism
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>
	<Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<YWKod.137814$HA.44609@attbi_s01>
	<donn-F6A9D8.11153623112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <tqadnT2kAIXJEj7cRVn-hA@rogers.com>


"Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message 
news:donn-F6A9D8.11153623112004 at gnus01.u.washington.edu...
> In article <YWKod.137814$HA.44609 at attbi_s01>,
> Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
>> This is not to say that there are never any times when you want to use
>> isinstance.  Here's a good example from my code for a Bunch class[1]:
>>
>> class Bunch(object):
>>      ...
>>      def update(self, *args, **kwds):
>>          if len(args) == 1:
>>              other, = args
>>              if isinstance(other, self.__class__):
>>                  other = other.__dict__
>>              try:
>>                  self.__dict__.update(other)
>>              except TypeError:
>>                  raise TypeError('cannot update Bunch with %s' %
>>                                  type(other).__name__)
>>          elif len(args) != 0:
>>              raise TypeError('expected 1 argument, got %i' % len(args))
>>          self.__dict__.update(kwds)
>>
>> In the code here, we use isinstance to check on whether or not to use
>> the argument's __dict__.
> ...
>
>> The point here is that I'm using isinstance here because I *know* there
>> are objects out there that, unlike Bunch objects, may have 'attributes'
>> not stored in their __dict__, and I *know* they might get passed to
>> Bunch.update.  Since I can't appropriately support their use, I want the
>> user to be notified of this (with the TypeError).
>>
>> Of course, I'm still making heavy use of the more general parametric
>> polymorphism because even if the object doesn't inherit from Bunch, I
>> still pass it to dict.update, which works with any type that supports
>> the mapping protocol (and a few other types besides).  So if, in the
>> future dict.update gains support for some new type, my code doesn't
>> artifically restrict the type of parameter that can be passed to my
>> function.
>>
>> Hope this was helpful (or at least vaguely intelligible) ;)
>
> I don't really see that isinstance() was necessary in principle
> here.  Not that it makes any difference to me, but it looks like
> you created this problem by defining these semantics in Bunch
> but failing to assign any identifiable attribute - we could in
> principle make another unrelated class "quack like a Bunch",
> but we'd have no way to inform your update function of this.

I'm not sure what you mean by an "identifiable attribute", but I think we 
are going back to an issue I pointed out in another posting in this thread. 
It makes a huge difference whether your code is something that only you are 
using and changing during the next few weeks or it's an off-the-shelf 
library that will be maintained and changed for years from now and will be 
used by many clients.  What is "identifiable" to you (or even to someone in 
the next cubicle) for the next few weeks may not be identifiable a few years 
from now or to someone who downloaded your module from the web.

I hope this was "at least vaguely intelligible"!

Dan

>   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu 




From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Sat Nov 13 05:55:49 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 13 Nov 2004 02:55:49 -0800
Subject: web hosting with Python
References: <3cccb1d8.0411101416.690960c3@posting.google.com>
	<6f402501.0411110147.69ef6800@posting.google.com>
	<41934648$0$48933$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<6f402501.0411120034.6205f801@posting.google.com>
	<81a41dd.0411121229.1f8cd8a7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0411130255.69b65c7f@posting.google.com>

export at hope.cz (Lad) wrote in message news:<81a41dd.0411121229.1f8cd8a7 at posting.google.com>...
> fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord) wrote in message news:<6f402501.0411120034.6205f801 at posting.google.com>...
> > Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:<41934648$0$48933$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl>...
> > > Michael Foord wrote:
> > > > http://www.sapphiresoft.co.uk
> > > > are very good. (Good python support, python 2.3.4).
> > > 
> > > It doesn't say so on their website, it appears a PHP shop...
> > > Or am I looking with my eyes closed?
> > > 
> > > --Irmen
> > 
> > Oh and mod_python as well..........
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> It looks very interesting. Do they allow SSH/Telnet access and Cron?
> Lad


There's cron but I don't think there's SSH/Telnet. Questions like this
are better directed to technical at sapphiresoft.co.uk

Regards,

Fuzzy
jttp://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From jerry at jerrysievers.com  Tue Nov 23 15:46:41 2004
From: jerry at jerrysievers.com (Jerry Sievers)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 15:46:41 -0500
Subject: Transfer data from webpage form to database
References: <41a36ab7$0$23056$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net>
	<m33bz05u3p.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
	<41a38f13$0$23068$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net>
	<m3u0rg49kx.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
	<41a39c29$0$29447$ba624c82@nntp06.dk.telia.net>
Message-ID: <m3oeho47ke.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>

"Pete....." <helten0007 at yahoo.com> writes:

> Hi again and thanks.
> I think I understand the meaning of string formatting operators, I also 
> understand the meaning with % (form['name'].value, form['surname'].value, 
> form['username'].value)) And that it is a dictionary that I use.
> 
> The thing I find really hard to understand is how I can send the data from 
> the webform to my postgresql database. I cant find the right commands, i 
> been searching the web for days now without luck.
> 
> PgSQL.query(''' INSERT into form Select persons.idpersons, person.username,
> 

You mean that whatever docs for the PgAPI that you are using don't
explain?

I am using pygresql.  There are others.

from pgdb import connect

conn = connect(database = 'db', username = 'user', password = 'passwd')
cursor = conn.cursor()

cursor.execute("insert into foo values (1)")
conn.commit()

That's about all the help I can give you.

Good luck

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Sievers   305 854-3001 (home)     WWW ECommerce Consultant
                305 321-1144 (mobile	http://www.JerrySievers.com/


From atterdan at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  4 19:33:05 2004
From: atterdan at yahoo.com (John Doe)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 00:33:05 GMT
Subject: looking for gtk.glade documenation
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.05.00.29.30.309127@yahoo.com>

Hi, 
does anyone have a website that covers gtk.glade?

Thanks in advance.

Dan


From kbk at shore.net  Fri Nov  5 22:08:08 2004
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 22:08:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Weekly Python Patch/Bug Summary
Message-ID: <200411060308.iA6388E3022594@h006008a7bda6.ne.client2.attbi.com>

Patch / Bug Summary
___________________

Patches :  241 open ( -2) /  2683 closed ( +5) /  2924 total ( +3)
Bugs    :  784 open ( -5) /  4567 closed (+22) /  5351 total (+17)
RFE     :  158 open ( +2) /   131 closed ( +0) /   289 total ( +2)

New / Reopened Patches
______________________

New BaseSMTPServer module  (2004-10-30)
       http://python.org/sf/1057417  opened by  Mark D. Roth

chr, ord, unichr documentation updates  (2004-10-31)
       http://python.org/sf/1057588  opened by  Mike Brown

bdist_rpm not able to compile multiple rpm packages  (2004-11-04)
       http://python.org/sf/1060577  opened by  Mihai Ibanescu

Patches Closed
______________

No ValueError for safe_substitute()  (2004-10-29)
       http://python.org/sf/1056967  closed by  bwarsaw

typo in comment (unicodeobject.h)  (2004-10-28)
       http://python.org/sf/1056231  closed by  rhettinger

ref. manual talks of 'sequence' instead of 'iterable'  (2003-10-23)
       http://python.org/sf/829073  closed by  fdrake

Fix for Unix macro expansion in citetitle  (2004-10-26)
       http://python.org/sf/1054715  closed by  fdrake

Remove CoreServices / CoreFoundation dependencies in core  (2004-09-26)
       http://python.org/sf/1035255  closed by  rhettinger

New / Reopened Bugs
___________________

add link in time module to calendar.timegm()  (2004-10-30)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1057535  opened by  Jeff Shute

compiler.transformer, "from module import *"  (2004-10-31)
       http://python.org/sf/1057835  opened by  Felix Wiemann

os.utime() doesn't work on WinME  (2004-11-01)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1057992  opened by  Raymond Hettinger

test_traceback.py fails on WinME  (2004-11-01)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1057993  opened by  Raymond Hettinger

Can't read some http URLs using neither urllib, nor urllib2  (2004-11-01)
       http://python.org/sf/1058059  opened by  Vsevolod Novikov

Blatantly false statement in the Unicode section  (2004-11-01)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1058351  opened by  Olivier Verdier

r'\10' as replacement pattern loops in compilation  (2004-11-02)
       http://python.org/sf/1058786  opened by  Nick Maclaren

Legacy requirements: Incorrect comments?  (2004-11-02)
       http://python.org/sf/1058937  opened by  Geoffrey T. Dairiki

install_lib fails under Python 2.1  (2004-11-02)
       http://python.org/sf/1058960  opened by  Geoffrey T. Dairiki

distutil bdist hardcodes the python location  (2004-11-02)
       http://python.org/sf/1059244  opened by  Steve Menard

errors=ignore broken on StreamWriter?  (2004-11-03)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1059748  opened by  Wummel

incorrect "'yield' outside function" error  (2004-11-04)
       http://python.org/sf/1060135  opened by  Willem Broekema

os.utime does not work on directories under Windows  (2004-11-04)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1060212  opened by  Boyle

Buffer overflow in socketmodule.c  (2004-11-04)
       http://python.org/sf/1060396  opened by  Mihai Ibanescu

Remove .min() and .max() from Decimal  (2004-11-04)
       http://python.org/sf/1060644  reopened by  facundobatista

Remove .min() and .max() from Decimal  (2004-11-04)
       http://python.org/sf/1060644  opened by  Facundo Batista

Error in difflib docs  (2004-11-05)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1060825  opened by  Kent Johnson

email.Parser does not recognize attachment  (2004-11-05)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1060941  opened by  Martin Muenstermann

Bugs Closed
___________

weakref callback vs gc vs threads  (2004-10-27)
       http://python.org/sf/1055820  closed by  tim_one

add link in time module to calendar.timegm()  (2004-10-31)
       http://python.org/sf/1057535  closed by  jlgijsbers

os.rmtree error handling was always broken  (2004-10-18)
       http://python.org/sf/1048941  closed by  jlgijsbers

minor error in os.access  (2004-10-29)
       http://python.org/sf/1056498  closed by  jlgijsbers

Attempt to run all atexit handlers  (2004-10-22)
       http://python.org/sf/1052242  closed by  montanaro

email.Utils not mentioned  (2004-09-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1030118  closed by  bwarsaw

os.utime() doesn't work on WinME  (2004-11-01)
       http://python.org/sf/1057992  closed by  rhettinger

test_traceback.py fails on WinME  (2004-11-01)
       http://python.org/sf/1057993  closed by  perky

email.Message does not allow iteration  (2004-08-26)
       http://python.org/sf/1017329  closed by  bwarsaw

Blatantly false statement in the Unicode section  (2004-11-02)
       http://python.org/sf/1058351  closed by  perky

File write examples are inadequate  (2002-10-09)
       http://python.org/sf/621057  closed by  fdrake

Clarify trailing comma in func arg list  (2003-09-01)
       http://python.org/sf/798652  closed by  fdrake

Install-time module compilation fails with 2.4b1  (2004-10-18)
       http://python.org/sf/1049003  closed by  loewis

errors=ignore broken on StreamWriter?  (2004-11-03)
       http://python.org/sf/1059748  closed by  lemburg

latex2html convert bug  (2003-12-30)
       http://python.org/sf/867556  closed by  quiver

os.utime does not work on directories under Windows  (2004-11-04)
       http://python.org/sf/1060212  closed by  tim_one

Remove .min() and .max() from Decimal  (2004-11-04)
       http://python.org/sf/1060644  closed by  rhettinger

LaTeX not required  (2004-05-05)
       http://python.org/sf/948517  closed by  fdrake

ambiguity in os.tmpfile  (2004-10-28)
       http://python.org/sf/1056515  closed by  fdrake

Duplicated &lt;link rel  (2004-02-18)
       http://python.org/sf/899423  closed by  fdrake

Error in difflib docs  (2004-11-05)
       http://python.org/sf/1060825  closed by  rhettinger

email.Parser does not recognize attachment  (2004-11-05)
       http://python.org/sf/1060941  closed by  bwarsaw

New / Reopened RFE
__________________

lock-free data structures?  (2004-11-03)
       http://python.org/sf/1059545  opened by  Markus Elfring



From directsale at tom.com  Tue Nov  9 16:35:46 2004
From: directsale at tom.com (Reynard)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 05:35:46 +0800
Subject: Best Home Base Work 
Message-ID: <4191360d_5@127.0.0.1>



"I can teach anyone how to get what they want out of life. 
The problem is I can't find anybody who can tell me what they want." -- Mark Twain "Today people in America can become whatever they want. Trouble is most don't know what they want." -- Earl Nightingale What do you want? Are you sick of the rat race? Are you tired of having someone else tell you what they think you're worth? Would you rather work from home, set you own hours, and pay yourself what you're really worth? We found the Perfect Home-based Business where you can work from home, set your own hours, and earn the kind of money you've always wanted to have! For four years running USANA has been voted best home based business?K How much are you really worth? How much do you want to earn this year? When do you want to retire and with how much? Click on the tab above that says "Opportunity" and then the tab that says "Presentation" and see for yourself why this is the Perfect Home-base Business. When you're done, contact us to schedule a brief interview, and if you qualify you can start earning this week! We will train the right people. We're looking for a few people who can recognize a great opportunity when they see it, and who want to take action now! So if you're a tire kicker, then enjoy the music and please pass on this. If however, you're ready to take action now, then you'll benefit ten-fold over those who wait. So go ahead and view the presentation. Then, take Action! A Dream without Action becomes a Memory! 

http://reynard.usana.com



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Nov 19 04:38:33 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:38:33 +0100
Subject: CGI and logging module
References: <419d0a70$0$221$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
	<cnj256$gmt$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<cnj4kt$f73$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.6565.1100816457.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cnkesg$c3n$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Andrew James wrote:

> Peter,
> Have you considered using mod_python as an alternative to CGI? It offers
> a number of benefits including partial session support, integration into
> Apache's internals and caching bytecode. I can provide you with some
> sample code if you wish (although the online documentation is very good)

As you may have noted, "Peter" is a bit ambiguous in this thread :-) 
If you meant to address me, I use CGIs only for personal purposes on the
local machine - basically as a substitute for command line tools with fancy
output. mod_python's CGI handler does not seem to offer any advantage here,
or does it?

Peter




From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Tue Nov  9 22:38:39 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 19:38:39 -0800
Subject: Determining combination of bits
In-Reply-To: <41901096$0$95602$a1866201@visi.com>
References: <cmoqvv$68r$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<418fff99$0$87155$a1866201@visi.com>
	<mailman.6133.1099957705.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41901096$0$95602$a1866201@visi.com>
Message-ID: <4191a04a$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Grant Edwards wrote:
  > Perhaps it's "valid", but in 25+ years of doing hardware and
> low-level software this is the first time I've ever heard the
> phrase "least significant bit" refer to anything other than the
> "rightmost" bit (the one with a weighting of 1).
> 
I tried to say, 'least significant one bit' (or 'on bit), but may
missed it in at least a sentence or two.

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From loritsch at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 02:22:47 2004
From: loritsch at gmail.com (Michael Loritsch)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 23:22:47 -0800
Subject: inserting bracketings into a string
References: <mailman.6460.1100648300.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e253918f.0411162322.375b85cb@posting.google.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.6460.1100648300.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> I'm trying to insert some bracketings in a string based on a set of
> labels and associated start and end indices.  For example, I'd like to
> do something like:
> 
> >>> text = 'abcde fgh ijklmnop qrstu vw xyz'
> >>> spans = [('A', 0, 9), ('B', 6, 9), ('C', 25, 31)]
> >>> insert_bracketings(text, spans)
> '[A abcde [B fgh]] ijklmnop qrstu [C vw xyz]'
> 
> My current implementation looks like:
> 
> >>> def insert_bracketings(text, spans):
> ... 	starts = [start for _, start, _ in spans]
> ... 	ends = [end for _, _, end in spans]
> ... 	indices = sorted(set(starts + ends))
> ... 	splits = [(text[start:end], start, end)
> ... 	          for start, end in zip([None] + indices, indices + [None])]
> ... 	start_map, end_map = {}, {}
> ... 	for label, start, end in spans:
> ... 		start_map.setdefault(start, []).append('[%s ' % label)
> ... 		end_map.setdefault(end, []).append(']')
> ... 	result = []	
> ... 	for string, start, end in splits:
> ... 		if start in start_map:
> ... 			result.extend(start_map[start])
> ... 		result.append(string)
> ... 		if end in end_map:
> ... 			result.extend(end_map[end])
> ... 	return ''.join(result)
> ... 
> 
> but it seems like there ought to be an easier way.  Can anyone help me?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Steve


Below is a little more readable and compact implementation that
produces the same result.  I'm not entirely sure if it qualifies as
'better', but I do believe it is ultimately more readable.

def insert_brackets(text, spans):
    brackets = []
    for span in spans:
        brackets.append((span[1], ("".join(('[', span[0], " ")))))
        brackets.append((span[2], ']'))
    brackets.sort()                 #Note: (n, '[X ') < (n, ']')
    answer = []
    lastIndex = 0
    for bracket in brackets:
        if lastIndex == bracket[0]: #Repeated index
            answer.append(bracket[1])
        else:                       #Non repeated index
            answer.extend((text[lastIndex:bracket[0]], bracket[1]))
            lastIndex = bracket[0]
    return "".join(answer)

Regards,

Michael Loritsch


From rune.hansen at scanmine.com  Mon Nov  8 04:08:49 2004
From: rune.hansen at scanmine.com (Rune Hansen)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 10:08:49 +0100
Subject: mod_python, multiple calls to PythonAuthenHandler
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.08.09.08.47.408661@scanmine.com>


I've posted this question on the mod_python mailing list but didn't get 
much response, so I thought I'd post it here.

(My first attempt connected to an unrelated thread..sorry.
Note-to-self:-must-get-more-coffee-before-posting-)

It seems to me that for each path element in a URI a mod_python handler
will be invoked. This applies to PythonAuthenHandler,
PythonHeaderParserHandler and so on.

Since I'm making a database request in my PythonAuthenHandler, this 
quickly becomes a problem.

Example:
http://lucene.moonspawn.scanmine.com/ =>
	AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: 1
	index got called once

http://lucene.moonspawn.scanmine.com/SearchHandler.py/search =>
	AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: 1
	AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: 2
	/search got called once

http://lucene.moonspawn.scanmine.com/search.html => (using mod_rewrite)
	AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: 1
	AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: 2
	AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: 3
	/search got called once

I get the same behavior on three separate installations

So, either I've got a miss-configuration which results in multiple calls 
to handlers or.., this is expected behavior, and there is a technique to 
avoid this or..., this is expected and, for reasons that escapes me, 
desired behavior.

I'd greatly appreciate any help and suggestion

regards

/rune


From johnaherne at rocs.co.uk  Mon Nov 29 03:50:25 2004
From: johnaherne at rocs.co.uk (John Aherne)
Date: 29 Nov 2004 00:50:25 -0800
Subject: deleting os files
References: <faf2d781.0411280500.5a71fd2d@posting.google.com>
	<41a9f352$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <faf2d781.0411290050.4ec186fb@posting.google.com>

Kent Johnson <kent3737 at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<41a9f352$1_3 at newspeer2.tds.net>...
> John Aherne wrote:
> > Unfortunately, when it comes to delete, I get a permission error. And
> > yes, when I run the program and try to delete the file from the
> > command prompt, I get a permission error.
> > 
> > As far as I can tell, I assume the file is being kept open in the
> > DictReader call. But I can't work out how I can close the file -
> > .close comand also returns an error. I was assuming that on the return
> > from the call the file would be closed - mistakenly I now think.
>  
> >     locallist = [(x) for x in os.listdir(localdir) if   
> > os.path.getsize(os.path.join(localdir, x)) > 0]     # upload all local
> > files
> >     localfiles = fnmatch.filter(locallist, '*.OUT')
> >     for localname in localfiles:  
> >        localpath = os.path.join(localdir, localname) 
> >        if localname[-3:] == 'OUT':
> >             csv_file = file(localpath)
> > 	    reader = csv.DictReader(csv_file,['phone', 'msg', 'PZ', 'MP'])
> > 	    for row in reader:
> > 	        phone = row['phone']
> >                 msg = row['msg']
> > 
> >             print time.ctime(time.time()),' uploading', msg,  'to',
> > phone
> 
>              csv_file.close() # after you finish reading the rows
> 
> Kent

Thanks for the responses.

I had tried the csv_file.close() but was getting an exception in my
try/except block.

I reckon I'm doing this wrong or in the wrong place. So I'll try
reworking the code and see where I get.

At least I can forget about the DictReader class. It's my code I need
to look at.

Thanks

John


From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Nov 11 16:17:28 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:17:28 -0800
Subject: How to load new class definitions at runtime?
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E32451D4@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

> I'm looking for ways to load new class definitions at runtime (I'm not
> talking about object instances here, so a persistent object database
> isn't what I am looking for [1]). I'm aware of a few options, but I
> would like to discuss the possible side effects for a potentially big,
> long running application server.
> 
> I am developing a business application based on workflow concepts. The
> model is quite simple: a business process is modelled as a sequence of
> tasks connected by actions. Actions can be re-used in different
> contexts. The result is a very complex graph. Processes, tasks and
> actions are implemented as classes. I opted to declare each action as
> a different class, because each action has different Python code
> attached to it. So simple object instances would not cut it. To allow
> the system to be customized without taking the application server
> offline, there must be a solution for these new class definitions to
> be loaded at runtime.
> 
> My current solution is simple. Class definitions have to be executed,
> and for it to work, the class name and the source code (or the
> compiled bytecode) is stored in a database. A class factory function
> retrieves the correct class definition (based on the name), and simply
> executes the code.

If you have so many such classes that you _must_ put them in a database
(and give up on existing version control systems like CVS), I don't have
any recommendations. But if you have several which are fairly static and
could survive in normal Python modules, feel free to steal my xray.py
from http://www.aminus.org/rbre/python/xray.py and use it to dynamically
load classes from Python modules as needed.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From stephenemslie at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 04:25:42 2004
From: stephenemslie at gmail.com (Stephen Emslie)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 01:25:42 -0800
Subject: GIF frame delay
Message-ID: <1100769942.849016.185380@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Does anyone know of any python imaging modules that can change the
delay between frames of an animated GIF?

Thanks
Stephen Emslie



From lisawill4u at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 21 08:22:01 2004
From: lisawill4u at yahoo.com (I found this great little site)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 04 13:22:01 GMT
Subject: I found this great little site
Message-ID: <04112113220116704@newshost.allthenewsgroups.com>

I found this great little site. I signed up two weeks ago and got 2 Disney tickets and this week they are sending me 2 Universal Studios tickets. Here's the link http://66.219.102.40/ and by the way I am a real person, this is my real email address. I'm not a spammer and didn't appreciate the nasty email I got last time I tried to post this link.
Thanks, Lisa

http://66.219.102.40/

http://66.219.102.40/



From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Nov  1 20:05:34 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 01:05:34 GMT
Subject: re.compile
In-Reply-To: <cm616i$8il$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <cm616i$8il$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <y3Bhd.1356$O11.311@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Brad Tilley wrote:
> Is there a quick way to make re.compile show what it's looking for?
> 
> x = re.compile('[a-z]')


What do you want?

 >>> import re
 >>> x = re.compile('[a-z]')
 >>> x.pattern
'[a-z]'
 >>> import sre_parse  # undocumented internal module ;)
 >>> sre_parse.parse(x.pattern)
[('in', [('range', (97, 122))])]
 >>>

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From danperl at rogers.com  Wed Nov  3 15:34:17 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 15:34:17 -0500
Subject: general class functions
References: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>
	<kj9eo0hkjem9pbj3pvdbpea6gpl06ighsj@4ax.com>
	<a76ba315.0411021009.46b06459@posting.google.com>
	<4187d1b6$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<5tugo0h6eod98l4l01gau1risdogl58i6v@4ax.com>
	<a76ba315.0411030822.7e48d308@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <MJKdnddReKVT3RTcRVn-oA@rogers.com>


"syd" <syd.diamond at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:a76ba315.0411030822.7e48d308 at posting.google.com...
> Andrea Griffini <agriff at tin.it> wrote in message
>
>> Would it be worse or better to make Library a new-style
>> class, using __getattribute__ instead of __getattr__ and
>> defaulting to object.__getattribute__(self,name) in the
>> "else" part ?
>
> Can you elaborate here, please?  I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

__getattr__ existed since "classic" classes.  It is only called if the 
regular way of searching for the attribute doesn't find it (it's not in 
self.__dict__).  __getattribute__ was introduced with new style classes and 
it is called for *all* attribute references.  In your case at least, you can 
either implement the __getattr__ hook or override the __getattribute__ 
method with pretty much the same results.  I see a use in overriding 
__getattribute__ if you want to change the behavior for all the attributes, 
but you are interested only in "get_*" methods.

Again, see http://www.python.org/2.2.1/descrintro.html for more (I was 
actually loosely quoting from there in my explanation).

I can't say though whether it would be worse or better.  I'm also curious to 
hear opinions on that.

Dan 




From DesertLinux at netscape.net  Sat Nov  6 18:36:45 2004
From: DesertLinux at netscape.net (Byron)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 23:36:45 GMT
Subject: Beginning with Classes
In-Reply-To: <2v46bvF2fovnbU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <a37cb$418cce14$53e8229a$32210@freeler.nl>
	<2v46bvF2fovnbU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <hedjd.19725$KJ6.6669@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Excellent book!  This is where I learned Object-Oriented Programming also.

Byron
---


Stefan Axelsson wrote:
> Noud Aldenhoven wrote:
> 
>> Is there a tutorial or a documentation about Python and classes. Starting
>> from beginners and ending in avarege or expert?
> 
> 
> If you haven't read "How to Think Like a Computer Scientist: Learning 
> with Python", by Jeff Elkner (et.al.?) then I'd suggest you'd start 
> there. Its geared towards beginning programmers and will get you started 
> with classes etc. It's available on the web (free as in both beer and 
> speech) at http://ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCS/python.php
> 
> Stefan,


From keithn1234 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  1 06:54:55 2004
From: keithn1234 at yahoo.com (Keith)
Date: 1 Nov 2004 03:54:55 -0800
Subject: FBI SADISTS SEXUALLY ABUSED ME and RAPED ME for 3 YRS and BEHEADED
	ME
Message-ID: <bd43c4e0.0411010354.7bb0f94c@posting.google.com>

If you are a US Govt "PROGRAMMED SLAVE and MORON"  OBSESSED with tin
foils, aluminium foils, schizo meds etc I KINDLY REQUEST you to ignore
the rest of this column and move on to the next post in the news
group.

FBI SADISTS could possibly have installed a transponder chip in my
body like Ethan did to Nyah in Mission Impossible 2. If any of you are
KNOWLEDGEABLE about how to find transponders implanted using any
methods including X-Rays, please post some relevant information here
and HELP ME. It would be greatly appreciated.

Undercover FBI SADIST J NIcklebaker listed in this column was able to
figure out PRECISELY to the core, the day I left home even though I
was 8500 miles away from US borders and he could have done it ONLY by
TRACKING ME with an implanted transponder chip in my body.

You can educate yourself more about the EVIL FBI SADISTS by reading
these websites.

www.datafilter.com/mc

www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5637

soundweapon at cs.com

www.4verichip.com/index.html

PERVERTED FBI agents RAPED, TORTURED, SEXUALLY ABUSED ME for THREE
YEARS and BEHEADED ME which is 10000 times worse than the SEXUAL ABUSE
of prisoners by Lyndie England.

If the PERVERTED FBI agents can watch me real time live attending
natures call and taking shower and other private moments in my rest
room, bed room, living room and kitchen and HUMILIATE, DEHUMANIZE and
SEXUALLY ABUSE me FOR THREE YEARS ILLEGALLY and AMUSE THEMSELVES, then
the FBI SADISTS and SEX PERVERTS deserve to be ruthlessly BEHEADED and
more.

Remember, SADISTIC FBI DID NOT FOLLOW THE RULES, so NOBODY in the
world has to follow the rules and the FBI agents SHOULD NOT have ANY
IMMUNITY and are GAME for ANYBODY and EVERYBODY. It is as simple as
that.

You can SELL this FBI NOC LIST and MAKE MILLIONS like Tom Cruise (I
know it is a CIA NOC LIST in MI) did in Mission Impossible.

Please SAVE this post on your hard disks or email account and also
bookmark it because the FBI SADISTS and PERVERTS are gonna force the
websites to remove this posting for good. I ADDED a few more
undercover FBI agents to the NOC LIST and also a few more facts about
FBI.

I request all you HACKERS on usenet to HACK these undercover FBI
agents IP addresses and trace their REAL IDENTITIES and post the info
here.

I posted this on 10/26/04 just a few days ago and used
keithm757 at yahoo.com and keithm757 at volcanomail.com to receive emails
from newsreaders but the SADISTIC FBI "FORCED" both "yahoo" and
"volcanomail" to CHANGE THE PASSWORDS and CLOSE my email accounts by
the morning of 10/27/04.

So if you are interested in helping me, please post your responses
(anonymously if possible) on the web itself instead of emailing me.

I am NOT a conspiracy theorist and everything I mentioned here
actually happened to me and are ABSOLUTE FACTS. Even the psychiatrist
REALIZED that all these things I mentioned are FOR REAL and ADVISED ME
to leave US.

To all of the 95% low IQ morons on usenet who accused me of schizo
paranoia and looking for attention and asked me why I was cross
posting to irrelevant newsgroups: Here is my answer.

1)  I WANT ALL OF YOU to FOCUS on the FBI SADISM, PERVERSION, SEXUAL
ABUSE and their BLATANT violation of human rights of an ordinary US
citizen.

2) I want all of you to STAND UP and ask the EVIL, PERVERTED and
SADISTIC FBI why they have to install video devices and watch me in my
rest room, bedroom, living room and kitchen and PSYCHO-ANALYSE me 24X7
for three years and TORTURE, TERRORIZE, HUMILIATE and DEHUMANIZE me.

3) I am posting to this to all active newsgroups to EXPOSE the
"INSTITUTIONALIZED FBI SADISM, PERVERSION and their SEXUAL ABUSE of
ordinary US citizens.

4) FBI SADISTS, PERVERTS and TERRORISTS are LAUGHING their asses off
reading you clowns' comments in response to my post on usenet because
all you 95% "PROGRAMMED SLAVES"  BEHAVED exactly the way the FBI
SADISTS "PROGRAMMED" your minds.

5) There are very few intelligent guys who responded to my post and
one of them is "bookwyrm" who figured why I was posting this to all
active newsgroups and another by anonymous name "assassians"  and
another by the name "Anatid" who tried to really help me.

http://groups.google.co.in/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=c54f0abe.0410100848.a515cf7%40posting.google.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26q%3DFBI%2BSADISM%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dalt.security.alarms

http://groups.google.co.in/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=415af813%40news.bnb-lp.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26q%3DFBI%2BSADISM%2Bbookwyrm%26meta%3D

SADISTIC and PERVERTED FBI has beeen MENTALLTY TORTURING, TERRORIZING
and SEXUALLY ABUSING me and BLATANTLY violating my civil rights
non-stop for three years.

Undercover FBI agents will attack me, ridicule me and discredit me
with fictitious userids in response to this post and I request all
readers to completely IGNORE those MANIPULATIVE, LYING FBI perverts,
sadists and thugs.

Please forward and distribute this to as many senators, congressmen,
journalists, editors, civil rights attorneys, civil rights activists,
investigative reporters, radio talk show hosts,  managers, co-workers,
family and friends and all Americans concerned with civil liberties.

I am not a muslim, I don't have even a single muslim friend, I am not
a member of any religious organization, I am not a drug smuggler, I do
not belong to any crime mafia, I did not kill anybody, I am not a spy
and I never ever worked for any government and not even "remotely
connected" to any government agency whatsoever, I do not have any
prior criminal record, I am a US citizen and have been living in US
for a little more than 15 yrs and I graduated with a masters degree in
computers from a US university more than a decade ago. I am even
willing to take "ANY NO.OF POLYGRAPH TESTS" to prove whatever I said
is true and a fact, about my background.

FBI has been MENTALLY TORTURING me with 24X7 surveillance for the last
three years inside and outside my apartment with video surveillance
devices and motion sensors around my apartment, my phone has been
tapped, my web surfing is being monitored all the time for the last
three years, my emails are being monitored, gps vehicle tracking
devices and voice amplification devices have been placed in my car and
undercover FBI agents have followed me to restaurants, grocery stores,
malls, movie theatres, banks and even barber shops etc and forced me
to live like an animal and a virtual prisoner for three years. FBI has
interfered in my personal life for no reason and jeopardized my job
opportunities. FBI is obsessed with me and has ruined, destroyed and
wrecked my life for the last three years and destroyed my physical and
mental health.

The SADISTIC FBI agents are NOT charging me, NOT letting me find a
job, NOT letting me have a normal life, NOT letting me have even an
IOTA of PRIVACY and mentally TORTURING and TERRORIZING me with 24X7
surveillance, making 2000 UNSOLICITED phone calls to my unlisted
phone#s, entering my apartment ILLEGALLY and STEALING personal
belongings when I am not home, watching me real time live with video
surveillance devices installed in my bedroom, living room, kitchen and
DISGUSTINGLY even in my rest room and humiliating and dehumanizing me
and BLATANTLY violating my civil rights and constitutional right to
privacy and ABUSING the "DRACONIAN" PATRIOT ACT.

The PERVERTED FBI "ILLEGALLY" installed tens of audio and video
surveillance devices in my apartment, watching me NAKED, REAL TIME
LIVE 24X7 even in my rest room taking shower, psychoanalyzing each and
every move, each and every word I said, each and every second of my
life, each and every blink of my eyes and each and every comment I
posted on the web.

Is there a LIMIT to FBI Sadism and Perversion ??
 
I spoke to at least 200 attorneys in both Michigan and Georgia for
legal help but only about two or three attorneys were willing to help
me but asked me to show physical proof of either gps or video
surveillance devices. I did a lot of research and found a couple of
private investigators (who were ex-FBI agents) more importantly who
are knowledgeable about the latest "counter surveillance technologies"
 but they also DECLINED to help me on ONE PRETEXT or the OTHER even
though I was willing to pay for their services.
 
I told these two very HIGHLY QUALIFIED and KNOWLEDGEABLE private
investigators Niles (Eagle services 866-691-7985) and another PI,
Charles Middlestadt (404-252-5322) of ISC Worldwide Inc in the Atlanta
area who are capable of finding the gps vehicle tracking devices in my
car, that I am NOT A MUSLIM and they have NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT ME
and even offered them to go through my attorney and help me but still
THEY DECLINED to help me OUT OF FEAR that I might be a muslim.

Another Private Investigator by the name John Weeks of Investigative
Solutions www.invsol.com in Atlanta told me that it would be
IMPOSSIBLE to find out these video, audio and gps surveillance devices
if the GOVERNMENT (FBI) is doing it.
 
And eventually I was forced to spend a $1000 as fees out of sheer
desperation knowing fully well that the Private Investigator I hired
has at best AVERAGE counter surveillance skills to sweep my car for
gps vehicle tracking devices and he did a LOUSY JOB and found nothing,
as I expected.

Some attorneys I consulted told me in very CLEAR TERMS that FBI agents
LIE, MANIPULATE, CHEAT and are VERY UNETHICAL in their MEANS and
METHODS. The attorneys also told me that in order for me to file a
civil lawsuit against the FBI, I have to PROVE the existence of
surveillance devices and also the MENTAL TORTURE, the SEXUAL ABUSE and
TERRORISM which will be quite a tall order for me to do without the
help of willing attorneys and helpful private investigators and EVEN
THEN the FBI sadists would have removed all those surveillance devices
by the time the private investigators came to sweep my apartment for
those devices after a couple of days since the FBI is listening to
each and every goddamn word that came out of my mouth whether it be in
my apartment or when I was speaking to these PI's and attorneys from
pay phones or cell phones.

You can investigate these undercover FBI agents yourself and find out
the truth. Remember, some times vehicles are registered in parents or
spouses names and also FBI uses fictitious front companies to employ
their undercover agents.

If any of you think, all these things are my paranoid delusions, I
CHALLENGE you to send an email to undercover FBI agent Frank Spodek
(sfrank9 at aol.com) OR call Kathleen Sue Taylor OR Maddelina Wahl OR
Mediha Krijestorac or Janet Lorna Brown or the other FBI agents I
listed at their phone numbers and confirm it with those FBI PERVERTED
SADISTS themselves.

Undercover FBI agents who followed me (partial list)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

313-354-7380         Internal unlisted FBI# in Detroit office from
which FBI agents called
and harassed me at home in 2001.  

BOGEY 27 (MI)     Registered to Maddelina C Wahl,  28087 Hickory Dr,
Farmington.Hills MI 38331, ph: 248-324-1527, Caucasian Female, black
car, Charter One bank, 3:00 pm, 12/20/03

This undercover FBI agent who followed me was a 30 yr old Caucasian
Female to Charter One bank on W.12 Mile Road, Farmington Hills, MI in
veh plate # BOGEY 27, ph:248-324-1527

PPL 587  (MI)     Registered to Kathleen Sue Taylor, African American
female, 29390 Bermuda Ln,Southfield, MI 48034, ph: 248-356-1946.

This undercover FBI agent who followed me was a 27yr old African
American female in MI veh plate# PPL 587 in July 2002  in a CVS
Pharmacy on W.12 Mile Rd, Southfield,  MI

XRA 155 (MI)     Registered to Mediha Krijestorac, Black car, 30408
Shiawasee Rd, Farmington MI 48336, ph:248-477-9161,  White Male,
Restaurant, 9:00pm, 12/12/03

This undercover FBI agent who followed me was a 20-22 yr old Caucasian
Male in veh plate # XRA 155 to a restaurant on Grand River Ave in
Farmington Hills,  MI at 9:00 pm on 12/12/03.

UFX 210 (MI)     Registered to Kevin Miller, White SUV,  5871 Seneca
St, Detroit, 48213, July 2002, 313-571-1095 #disconnected.

This undercover FBI agent followed me in the summer of 2002.

5915CR   (MI)    Registered to Kenneth Allen, Red pickup truck, 18440
Alta Vista Dr, Southfield MI 48075 in Dec 2002.
 
This FBI undercover agent followed me in a red pickup truck in an
apartment complex was a 27-33 yr old Caucasian male in veh plate# 5915
CR in Dec 2002.

0978 JD  (MI)   Registered to Janet Lorna Brown, White Chevy, 20978
Delaware St, Southfield MI 48034 in 2002, ph# 248-350-2599

This FBI agent followed me in a white chevy once on Telegraph road on
3/14/02 and on a different occasion on 8 Mile Rd on 4/4/02 when I went
for an oil change.

8CK U33 (MI)    Registered to Doris Evelyn Person, 3611 S.Annabelle
St, Detroit 48217, 313-388-5186

The African American female undercover FBI agent who followed me in MI
veh plate# 8CK U33 was about 20 yrs old and might be a daughter of the
female owner of this car and this happened in early Fall of 2002.

073 D1U (MI)    Registered to Scott Alan Smith, 7536 Gary St, Westland
MI 48185

This 25 yr old caucasian male undercover FBI agent about 25 yrs old
followed me near my apartment in the fall of 2002. phone# 734-261-1587
in 2002 (Disconnected)

LQE 620 (MI)    SUV, Registered to Samuel Pilato, 40460 Cove ct,
Plymouth, MI 40460
                       Ph#  734-420-0521, 3/14/02 11:30AM

This caucasian undercover FBI agent about 35yrs old followed me to a
library in the spring of 2002 on Telegraph Rd, Southfield, MI

EBAY      Ebay Id: SpodekModek, sfrank9 at aol.com --> email Id of Frank
Spodek - Undercover FBI Agent who monitored my Websurfing activities.

You can do a quick investigative test by emailing to sfrank9 at aol.com
and asking Frank if he is an undercover FBI agent and I am absolutely
positive he WONT respond and DENY he is an FBI agent because then it
will be a LIE. With this test you can conclude Frank Spodek is indeed
an undercover FBI agent.

EBAY            Ebay Id: cbsan,  cidneybetz at aol.com, email Id of
Cidney Betz - Undercover FBI agent who monitored my websurfing
activities in 2002.

Possible old phone numbers of Cidney Betz: 407-370-3043 or
352-291-2112 in the year 2002.

351 FTK (GA)    Maroon Car, 7/28/04, 6:00 pm, 20ish Caucasian Male and
Female, Metro Atlanta

131 YBP (GA)    35 yr old Caucasian Male, Silver colored car, 7/22/04,
10:45 pm, Hotel, Metro Atlanta

APZ 7647 (GA)   35 yr old Caucasian Male, Truck, 5/25/04, 3:00pm,
Ridgeview Hospital, Atlanta

YUU 243 (GA)    Pickup truck, Caucasian male, 8/25/04, 4:40pm,
Holcrombe Bridge Rd, Altanta

AQG 2185 (GA)   27 yr old Caucasian Female, Red Cherokee, 5/21/04, 11
AM, Pep Boys, Cobb Parkway

WPS 578 (GA)    SUV, One Caucasian Male and one female, 3/8/04,
8:30pm, Apartment Complex

Coipel               770-577-0526 (5/2/04, 5:29pm), 4337 Lodgeview pl,
Douglasville, GA
                        30315. undercover FBI agent in metro Altanta
area.

Ronnie Hill         678-755-2034 in June 2004 -  Possibly an FBI agent

Please allow three years plus or minus to the ages of the undercover
FBI agents I mentioned here.

2/29/04        Undercover FBI agent with a fictitious name "Agent
Johnson" and IP address 81.132.210.89 said on internet that they are
using me as a training target and have got a bet on as to when I'll do
something really stupid and also they are taking bets on what it will
be in alt.astrology Usenet newsgroup on 2/29/04. This FBI agent from
Michigan field office might have posted it anonymously and hence the
IP address might be a fake one. Url for Agent Johnson's post follows.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=c1u06b%24780%241%40titan.btinternet.com&rnum=19
                                
3/21/04        Undercover FBI agent by some fictitious internet name
"THOR" and email Id: funk_a_del_ic2000 at yahoo.com and IP address
24.94.125.55 in the Washington DC area monitored my web surfing
activities and posted on rec.sport.cricket Usenet news group.

10/10/04        J NIcklebaker (Undercover FBI agent monitoring my
websurfing activities) posted anonymously using Newsguy Usenet Service
Provider in alt.liberalminded newsgroup and THREATENED ME.

http://groups.google.co.in/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=8boim0p7tpeo9p991segp7o7bd4h7ov32s%404ax.com&rnum=4&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26q%3DNicklebaker%26meta%3D

10/6/04        Leonard (Undercover FBI agent monitoring my websurfing
activities) with real IP address 24.209.79.66 (This IP address can be
hacked) posted in rec.audio.car newsgroup

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=263696fd.0410060414.319fd404%40posting.google.com

10/15/04      Els (Undercover FBI agent "Els" monitoring my websurfing
activities) with probably fake IP address 82.169.229.173 posted in
alt.test newsgroup

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=416fff7f%240%2444105%245fc3050%40dreader2.news.tiscali.nl&output=gplain

I am absolutely confident all the above mentioned people are
undercover FBI agents GUARANTEED. You can investigate them yourself
and find out the truth.

I request all you HACKERS on usenet to HACK these undercover FBI
agents' IP addresses and trace their real REAL IDENTITIES and post the
info here.

FBI who is supposed to catch terrorists are WASTING humongous amount
of tax payers money to ruin, wreck and destroy ordinary peoples lives
and are MORE INTERESTED and spent three years to tell me how SMART and
INFINITELY POWERFUL they are compared to me.

FBI has even been eavesdropping, monitoring and recording my
conversations with attorneys from pay phones when I was looking to
hire an attorney to get help with this FBIs harassment,
dehumanization, humiliation and mental torture.

FBI agents have been entering my apartment regularly and torturing me
by doing whatever they want because they know I am taking medication
that puts me to sleep and I won't wake up until the next morning until
the drug effect goes away.

FBI has forced Google or used some technology at their disposal to
cancel some of my comments from getting posted on INTERNET newsgroups
misc.legal, trial.misc.legal from a library in Farmington Hills, MI
and denied and VIOLATED my right to FREEDOM OF SPEECH in 11/03 or
12/03.

I moved in with another person (who advertised on a website for a room
mate) on 5/24/04 and I went out in his car on the night of 5/25/04 and
the next morning 5/26/04, at 9:30am the SADISTIC FBI called me and
made this phone# 678-560-1322 and the caller name "LOOKING FOR YOU"
appear on my caller id to tell me, "Oh we were LOOKING for you last
night, we did not know where you were because you went out in your
room mates car". The sadistic and perverted FBI "ILLEGALLY" installed
gps vehicle tracking devices in my room mates car the next day to
TRACK ME, even though my room mate has nothing to do with me and we
were COMPLETE STRANGERS until the previous day.

The same day on 5/26/04 evening, I went out in my car and came back
around 7:45 pm, parked my car in the parking lot and on the way I said
"nice car" to my neighbor who was cleaning his car, to which he
replied "thanks". Within a few minutes at 8:44 pm, the SADISTIC FBI
called and made phone# 770-690-8489 with caller name "NEIGHBOR
OUTREACH" appear on my caller id to tell me, "Oh we saw and heard what
you said to your neighbor in the parking lot". The FBI was able to see
and hear me because they installed VIDEO and AUDIO surveillance
devices around my apartment.

When I went to Best Buy in Feb 2002 to buy a cell phone, two caucasian
FBI agents (possibly husband and wife) followed me into the store and
observed me from a very close range and sent me a marketing fax for
cell phones to my UNLISTED phone# THAT SAME EVENING to tell me that
the SADISTIC FBI were WATCHING ME even in retail stores.

FBI agents have terrorized me by calling my current unlisted phone#
atleast 200 times in a month and a half in July and August 2004,
intentionally asking for Roberto Fernandez (last name changed),
knowing fully well that nobody by the name Roberto Fernandez lived in
my apartment.

SADISTIC FBI agents even punctured my room mates car tire because of
some casual NON-RELIGIOUS comments he made one day.

I called undercover FBI agent, Kathleen Sue Taylor on 4/1/04 and told
her I do not want to receive any HARASSING UNSOLICITED phone calls
from the FBI and from next day onwards, the FBI had made my unlisted
phone# appear on caller id of ordinary american people multiple # of
times, where the owners of those phone#s listed below got upset and
called me and left abusive messages in my answering machine.

The owners of these phone numbers listed below called and asked me why
I was calling them repeatedly, even though I DON'T KNOW who they are
and I NEVER called them even once.
   703-580-8992         4/2/04     Dale City, VA
   540-309-1226         4/3/04     Roanoke VA
   434-525-1448         4/3/04     Lynchburg, VA
   757-404-1076         4/4/04     Harry Folsom left me an abusive
message
   703-820-6695         4/4/04     DC Suburb, VA 
   770-966-5236         4/4/04     Cooper P D, Woman left me an
abusive message
   757-483-0583         4/7/04     Norfolk, VA
   540-463-7459         4/7/04     Lexington VA
   770-253-6297         4/8/04     Hammond Stinson
   703-541-0950         4/9/04     DC Suburb, VA

FBI pretended to be me and made all these phone calls themselves from
the FBI head office in Washington DC to those ordinary Americans and
made my unlisted phone# appear on their phone caller ids, as if I am
calling them.

Please speak to, ADVISE and ENCOURAGE these people above to file
lawsuits against the US government and FBI for violating their privacy
and for phone harassment.

(If you are RICH, you can use a PRIVATE EYE to get the PHONE CALL
LISTS of these numbers above for the first 10 days of April 2004 and
find a COMMON PHONE# among the lists on the SPECIFIC DAYS mentioned
above to zero in on the unlisted phone#)

FBI agents have destroyed my livelihood by assasinating my character
with potential employers by making anonymous calls to them when I sent
resumes since FBI is privy to all the email addresses and phone
numbers of the recruiters and potential employers. I do NOT think this
is an EXCEPTION and imagine how many ordinary Americans have been
suffering this "FBI SADISM for years" without knowing it.

Once a Caucasian male FBI agent in a Comcast van threatened to ram
into my car from behind and came within half an inch of hitting me
from behind even though there was no traffic altercation between us on
a city street in Southfield in Feb 2002.

Two FBI agents once shouted at me and abused me verbally in a Sports
Authority store parking lot approximately around Feb 2002 in Livonia,
MI.

FBI ILLEGALLY stole passwords of all my email and internet accounts
with the help of bugs installed on my computer.

FBI agents have followed me even when I went to see a doctor. There
was one Caucasian FBI agent in a white truck with GA license plate APZ
7647 on 5/24/04, waiting for me in a truck in Ridgeview hospital
parking lot listening to the conversation I was having with the
doctor, using voice amplification devices.

I am currently living in a two bedroom apartment  sharing it with
another person and the FBI sadists made anonymous calls to the
apartment management office with fictitious complaints and tried to
get me evicted from the apartment in July 2004.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home in May
2004, stole a "yellow highlighter" and after I moved to a different
Atlanta suburbs a month later entered my apartment again when I was
not home and placed the "yellow highlighter" on the carpet in the
middle of my bedroom by the time I came back from watching Fahrenheit
9/11 movie on 6/27/04. The FBI knew that I went to watch Fahrenheit
9/11 movie on 6/27/04 because they were watching me looking for
directions and movie times on the internet and also with the help of
gps vehicle tracking devices in my car.

I spoke to an attorney from a pay phone on 6/24/04 and during the
conversation I asked the attorney if we can get a court order to force
the Internet Service Provider to reveal if my internet web surfing is
being monitored by the FBI and lo and behold my internet account
MYSTERIOUSLY DISAPPEARED from the ISP computers on 6/25/04. On inquiry
my ISP told me somebody called and cancelled my internet account the
previous day, which I never did.

My room mate goes to work around 6 AM and on the night of 7/23/04 I
pasted a 8.5 X 11 page note on the inside of the apartment entrance
door for my room mate to wake me up when he leaves so I can bolt the
hotel lock from inside and go back to sleep. My room mate woke me up
like I requested and I bolted the hotel lock from inside of my
apartment and went back to sleep at 6 AM on the morning of 7/24/04.
The sadistic FBI agents STILL ENTERED my second floor apartment while
I was asleep between 6:00 AM and 10:00 AM on 7/24/04 and REMOVED the
8.5X11 inch page pasted note on the inside of entrance door and LEFT
IT on the ENTERTAINMENT CENTER in the living room just to TORTURE ME
mentally and TERRORIZE me &#8220;We entered your apartment even when
you locked the hotel lock bolt and did this, but what can you do
?&#8221;

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment on the night of 8/1/04 when
I was asleep and stole prepaid calling card pin numbers from my
trouser pockets. One of the prepaid calling cards in my trouser pocket
was called "I Conexion" and the FBI next day called me on 8/2/04 and
made the number 770-242-8775 with caller name "Internet Conexion"
appear on my caller id to TERRORIZE me, that they entered my apartment
the previous night and stole the prepaid calling numbers from my
trouser pocket. The phone# above is NOT an FBI# but some other
company.

To protect myself from these SADISTIC FBI agents entering into my
apartment and stealing things when I am asleep, I locked my bedroom
door from the inside and put a small heavy box and a 19 inch TV on top
of the box against the bed room door on the night of 8/7/04 so if the
FBI agents try to open my bedroom door, the TV will fall off the box
at the slightest movement of the door, make a big sound and wake me
up. On the morning of 8/8/04 around 9:00 AM I woke up to a giant
thudding sound of the TV falling on the floor from the box and FBI
agents speeding away by the time I realized what happened. FBI agents
entered my apartment and opened my locked bedroom and pushed the door
at 9:00 AM so hard, they pushed the box a good two feet away from the
door. The FBI SADISTS are even willing to break my 19 inch TV to
TORTURE and TERRORIZE me.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY CHANGED three passwords (even though I used
Kinkos to keep my PASSWORDS PRIVATE) of my three email ids that I was
using to send this document to investigative reporters between 8/26/04
and 8/28/04 to "PREVENT ME" from EXPOSING their SADISM, PERVERSION,
TERRORISM, SEXUAL ABUSE and MENTAL TORTURE, by either ILLEGALLY
installing key logging software on kinkos computers or by some other
ILLEGAL MEANS unknown to me. So I created brand new email ids and sent
this document and god knows when the SADISTIC FBI will change the
passwords of my NEW email ids.

To escape this FBI sadism, I went and slept in an acquaintance's
apartment in the first week of September 2004 and the SADISTIC FBI
agents still came and entered that apartment, installed video
surveillance devices in the acquaintance's apartment and drew a curvy
line with a knife on the black colored apartment door of the
acquaintance to TERRORIZE me.

FBI has entered my unlisted phone#s in all marketing and fax databases
and sent me faxes in the middle of the night. FBI sent me on the
average two to three marketing calls and faxes everyday for 3 years to
my unlisted numbers totaling at least 2000 unsolicited calls in the
last 3 years.

To all of you who are gonna advise me to wear tinfoil or take drugs
for schizophrenic paranoia, the SADISTIC FBI wants all of you to think
exactly that way so they can CONTINUE to carry on their PERVERSE
SADISM on ordinary american citizens and MISDIRECT and PROGRAM all of
the 290 mil american brains to treat the EVIL, SADISTIC, PERVERTED and
DICTATORIAL FBI like Gods.

*************************************************************************************


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Nov 17 20:20:54 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:20:54 -0800
Subject: Enumerating Classes in Modules
In-Reply-To: <jKQmd.16312$Vk6.11976@twister.nyc.rr.com>
References: <jKQmd.16312$Vk6.11976@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <10pnu0hrq7r9tf9@corp.supernews.com>

Rob Snyder wrote:

>Greetings -
>
>I have a situation where I need to be able to have a Python function that
>will take all the modules in a given directory and find all the classes
>defined in these modules by name. Ultimately, I would need to loop through
>all of these, instantiating each of the classes in turn and calling a
>pre-known method of each.
>
>Finding the name of each module is not a problem, but loading the classes
>out the module once I know the name is where I'm lost.
>  
>

Hm.  Any reason to not simply import the module (using the __import__() 
function), going through all names in that module's namespace, and 
attempting to call the method on them?  (Catching AttributeErrors as 
necessary, of course.)

Something like this (untested, unresearched, and totally off the top of 
my head):

for modname in nameslist:
    plugins[modname] = __import__(modname)
    # ....
    for item in dir(plugins[modname]):
        try:
            item.standard_method()
        except AttributeError:
            pass

If you need something a bit more specific, maybe you could require all 
plugin classes to be derived from a common subclass, and before calling 
the standard_method() you could check issubclass(item, plugin_base)...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From and-google at doxdesk.com  Fri Nov 19 07:16:24 2004
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 04:16:24 -0800
Subject: avoiding nested try/excepts
References: <FA7nd.49980$V41.32722@attbi_s52>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0411190416.25fc82f@posting.google.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:

>          except:
>              log(x)
>              raise

(Of course 'except:' is rarely a good idea! You probably want to
exclude at least MemoryError - as log() might then fail - and possibly
also KeyboardInterrupt, SystemExit depending on what you're doing.)

> but now I have another level of nesting and things get kinda hard for me 
> to read.

I find it fine - I prefer it to the shorter version as it's clearer
where AnException is expected to be raised.

In general, localising exception handling is a good move, and I'd
personally do so in the case of your example. If g() is the only
method that can possibly raise AnException the shorter version is
safe, but otherwise botched exception handling can be a real pain to
track down.

If you find the nesting level a bit much you could always use fewer
whitespaces. :-)

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Nov  2 21:36:17 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 20:36:17 -0600
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com><10of7jtm07h7f77@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.5838.1099425921.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10ogh12akkrrb97@news.supernews.com>


"John Hazen" <python-list at hazen.net> wrote in message 
news:mailman.5838.1099425921.5135.python-list at python.org...
> [Stephen Ferg]
> [ ... wants a CPyAN ...]
>
> [John Roth]
>
>> How does the Python Package Index not meet this need?
>>
>> I can think of one very serious difference, which has
>> kept me from placing a module in the PPI.
>
> Ummm...  Care to let us in on it?  While your subtle hint may make sense
> to those who have submitted packages for inclusion, I suspect I speak
> for the many more of us who haven't.  What's your objection?

1. Where do I store the module? I don't have a web site, and
it isn't on sourceforge.

2. For what I've done, the standard installer script required
for PPI is stoopid. All that's really needed to install is unpack
to the right directory. That's it. However, to use distutils I
had to write a packager program to create all the entries
I needed. This took me quite a few hours and left a very
sour taste since a lot of things that I thought should have
been automatic weren't.

That's why the Python port of FIT isn't on PPI. And
it won't be on PPI until I get around to moving it to
Sourceforge, which will happen sometime in the very
misty future.


>
> -John Hazen 



From evenprimes at gmail.com  Tue Nov  2 09:45:26 2004
From: evenprimes at gmail.com (Chris Cioffi)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:45:26 -0500
Subject: extending file?
In-Reply-To: <41879811.40002@bellsouth.net>
References: <mailman.5780.1099340819.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8vudnfFCkdgUDBrcRVn-jA@powergate.ca> <41879811.40002@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <f03f4fdf04110206455e46d101@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for both your comments.  

My rationale for being able to change the line terminator, was 2 fold,
as you guessed:

1.  It's easy and I'm lazy ;)
2.  I'm guessing that lots of that code is relatively optimized C, so
it should be fairly fast.

I had considered the FSM tactic, and in fact the rest of my EDI code
usually uses that technique.  Why didn't I?  Again, 2 reasons:

1.  I'm lazy (Is there a patten here? :)
2.  I was thinking that OS buffering would help me avoid the worst of
the .read() overhead. Still, the function calling overhead in Python
probably hurts more.

I'll probably go back and add a buffer (a few K) and run some tests. 
While any speed improvement would be welcome, I won't consider less
than 1.5x faster being a real success.

The psyco optimizations are very significant, like the recipe says, it
more or less doubles the speed.  I'm wondering how that will compare
with a buffered FSM.

I'd love to see a different implementation as well, Jeremy.  Some of
the issues I've had to deal with may have been atypical and caused me
to lose some efficiency for an odd case.  You also have more
experience with EDI than I (~1.5 yrs) so I'd like to see what kind of
design decisions you'll make.

Chris


On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 09:22:09 -0500, Jeremy Jones <zanesdad at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > Chris Cioffi wrote:
> >
> >> Are there any docs or examples of extending the file type?  I work
> >> with EDI messages that are very like text files, just with a few
> >> quirks. ;-)  and I was wondering if I could strech and twist the built
> >> in file type to make things a bit faster and more full featured.
> >>
> >> Specifically I would need to alter the iterator and ideally the line
> >> terminitor.
> >
> >
> > It's unclear what you want to do.  Can you provide an example?
> >
> > Also consider whether you can achieve what you want merely
> > by creating your own "file-like" object that wraps the
> > standard file type.  This is the usual way to proceed.
> >
> > -Peter
> 
> I should really wait for the OP, but I've had too much caffeine this
> morning to just sit still.  An EDI message is a (fairly well) structured
> string of text (let's just say a file for now) that may consist of
> multiple interchanges, each interchange consisting of multiple segments
> (at least two, and each segment having a specific character denoting its
> end - all segments in an interchange will have the same segment
> terminator) and each segment consisting of multiple elements.  I believe
> the OP wants to be able to specify what character the file object will
> recognize as a line terminator (rather than the standard \n or \r\n),
> presumably so he can tell it that a segment terminator is the line
> terminator, do a readline(), and get an EDI segment instead of a
> "traditional" line of text.  Having dealt with EDI for nearly 6 years, I
> could see the benefit of this.  While I'm currently headed down the FSM
> route, it would be interesting to see the above mentioned alternative.
> 
> Jeremy Jones
> 
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


-- 
<a href="http://spreadfirefox.com/community/?q=affiliates&id=0&t=1">Get
Firefox!</a>


From boria at NOSPAM.fbg.uklinux.net  Wed Nov  3 13:37:49 2004
From: boria at NOSPAM.fbg.uklinux.net (Boria Feigin)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 18:37:49 -0000
Subject: P2P framework
References: <4180f21f$0$43632$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>
Message-ID: <41893369$0$551$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>


> Basically, something like Sun's JXTA (www.jxta.org) would be more than
> sufficient. They do have a Python bindings project (jxtapy.jxta.org) but
> that seems dead and I'd rather avoid using Jython for the time being.
>
> All and any advice appreciated.

Thanks to those who replied. I am currently also looking into Spread.

Regards,
Boris 




From theller at python.net  Thu Nov 18 02:38:58 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 08:38:58 +0100
Subject: thread, threading; how to kill a thread?
References: <m37jokwiqj.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
	<mailman.6508.1100724708.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cngfsv$jig$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<mailman.6512.1100728265.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<u4qjof6ks.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <ekirr4h9.fsf@python.net>

David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> writes:

[...]
> Of course, while the above runs on my system, I do think it has a GIL
> risk - I expect that ctypes is releasing the GIL just before calling
> the native function, so there's a chance the other thread could resume
> and obtain the GIL just prior to TerminateThread executing at the
> Win32 layer.  My odds are probably lower in this example since the
> dummy thread is sleeping most of the time.  So if I was going to use
> this in practice I'd probably provide my own extension module that
> wrapped TerminateThread but made sure *not* to release the GIL before
> calling it.

For the record: Yes, ctypes releases and reacquires the GIL around
normal function calls.  But in recent releases this can even be
customized - there's a FUNCFLAG_PYTHONAPI flag which prevents this,
because it wouldn't be possible to call Python api functions otherwise.
See the sources for details (it also calls PyErr_Occurred() after the
function call, which is unneeded in your case but also doesn't hurt).

Thomas


From trentm at ActiveState.com  Tue Nov 30 20:15:39 2004
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:15:39 -0800
Subject: ANN: ActivePython 2.4.0 build 243 is available
Message-ID: <41AD1B3B.6040701@activestate.com>

ActivePython 2.4.0 (final) is now available from:

     http://www.ActiveState.com/Products/ActivePython

This is a release candidate matching the recently tagged core Python
2.4.0. Builds for Linux, Solaris and Windows are available.

We would welcome any and all feedback to:
     ActivePython-feedback at ActiveState.com
Please file bugs against ActivePython at:
     http://bugs.ActiveState.com/ActivePython


What is ActivePython?
---------------------

ActivePython is ActiveState's quality-assured binary build of Python.
Builds for Windows, Linux and Solaris and made freely available.

ActivePython includes the Python core and core extensions (zlib 1.2.1,
bzip2 1.0.2, bsddb 4.2.52, Tk 8.4.4, and Tix 8.1.4). On Windows,
ActivePython includes the PyWin32 suite of Windows tools developed by
Mark Hammond, including bindings to the Win32 API and Windows COM, the
Pythonwin IDE; and more.

ActivePython also includes a wealth of Python documentation, including:
- the core Python docs;
- Andrew Kuchling's "What's New in Python" series;
- the Non-Programmer's Tutorial for Python;
- Mark Pilgrim's excellent "Dive into Python"; and
- a snapshot of the Python FAQs, HOWTOs and PEPs.

An online version of the docs can be found here:
     http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/docs/ActivePython/2.4/welcome.html


Extra Bits
----------

This release of ActivePython also includes the following packages:

- a "doc" package: the full ActivePython documentation set viewable
   with any browser
- a "debug" package: debug-built binaries for ActivePython users
   building debug versions of their binary Python extensions
- ActivePython24.chm: an MS compiled help collection of the full
   ActivePython documentation set. Linux users of applications such
   as xCHM might find this useful.

These packages are available from:
     ftp://ftp.activestate.com/ActivePython/etc/

Thanks, and enjoy!

Trent (and the hard-working elves at ActiveState)

-- 
Trent Mick
trentm at activestate.com





From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Nov 12 02:23:53 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:23:53 -0800
Subject: Simple thread pools
In-Reply-To: <x7mzxonn0b.fsf@guru.mired.org>
References: <mailman.6278.1100203412.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<x7mzxonn0b.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <20041111231017.F8DD.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
> 
> Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> writes:
> 
> > Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> > All I'm saying is that you can get the same kinds of concurrency, same
> > kinds of throughput, same kinds of elapsed times, etc., with an
> > asynchronous approach and a single thread.  I suppose 'whatever floats 
> > [our] boats' and 'whatever implementation presents itself in the most
> > timely manner'.
> 
> Except that multi-threaded code is prone to obscure, hard-to-isolate
> bugs. Having done both multi-threaded and async servers, I'll take the
> async version every time.

Any time I have the time to do async (99.99% of the time), I do. 
On the rare occasion I'm just lazy, and go with a pre-made module that
only supports threads/forking (like BaseHTTPServer when I wanted a web
interface to a daemon, and I didn't want to implement HTTP).


I had offered (in python-dev) to translate the various server classes
that are available into an two-part system, one that handles the getting
the data to the handlers (thread, forked, async) and the actual generic
non-blocking handlers (anything that blocks required calling a deferring
mechanism that is thread/async dependant, apparently similar to
Twisted's deferred system).  In doing the translation, Python would get
a nice generic server framework (threaded, forked, async), but since
we/they are looking to get a subset of Twisted in anyways, creating a
new version is basically a waste.


 - Josiah



From exarkun at divmod.com  Sun Nov 28 19:16:35 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 00:16:35 GMT
Subject: Replacing words from strings except  'and' / 'or' / 'and not'
In-Reply-To: <c76ff6fc.0411281533.53c689e6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041129001635.17481.355750844.divmod.quotient.10109@ohm>

On 28 Nov 2004 15:33:13 -0800, sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin) wrote:
>Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.6853.1101656845.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> > >> > Is there a reason to use sets here? I think lists will do as well.
> >     >> 
> >     >> Sets are implemented using dictionaries, so the "if w in KEYWORDS"
> >     >> part would be O(1) instead of O(n) as with lists...
> >     >> 
> >     >> (I.e. searching a list is a brute-force operation, whereas
> >     >> sets are not.)
> > 
> >     Jp>   And yet... using sets here is slower in every possible case:
> >     ...
> >     Jp>   This is a pretty clear example of premature optimization.
> > 
> > I think the set concept is correct.  The keywords of interest are best
> > thought of as an unordered collection.  Lists imply some ordering (or at
> > least that potential).  Premature optimization would have been realizing
> > that scanning a short list of strings was faster than testing for set
> > membership and choosing to use lists instead of sets.
> > 
> > Skip
> 
> Jp scores extra points for pre-maturity by not trying out version 2.4,
> by not reading the bit about sets now being built-in, based on dicts,
> dicts being one of the timbot's optimise-the-snot-out-of targets ...
> herewith some results from a box with a 1.4Ghz Athlon chip running
> Windows 2000:
> 
> [snip - builtin `set' faster than sets.Set]

  John,

    Thanks for pointing out the existence of the new, built-in set type.  I was well aware of it and the performance improvements it brings, but others may not have been.  Since Python 2.4 hasn't actually be released yet, I don't think it could be of any help to the original poster, although I am well aware of the proclivity of a significant portion of the Python community to eagerly begin developing against pre-release versions of Python.

    Since the code I was claiming suffered from premature optimization didn't use the set type, I'm not sure of the relevance of this point.  In fact, it is trivially _more_ work to convert from usage of sets.Set to usage of set than it is to convert from usage of lists to usage of set.  If anything, the list version would have been easier to migrate, once 2.4 was a suitable deployment platform.

    As Skip pointed out, though, Sets can be seen as a conceptually better fit for the problem, so the performance or simplified migration of lists over set.Sets is hardly a justification for the use of lists.  My post was intended solely to rebut the position that sets.Set would desirable because they were more efficient, as the poster to whom I was responding had claimed.  I also tried to emphasize the fact that optimization is senseless without first identifying bottlenecks and that the function in question almost certainly was not even a blip on the performance radar of the program to which it belonged, but perhaps I was not sufficiently clear on that point.

  In any case, thanks for the points.  I'll try to exchange them for some alms at the next town. :)

  Hope this resolves some confusion,

  Jp


From grante at visi.com  Thu Nov 11 15:34:25 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 11 Nov 2004 20:34:25 GMT
Subject: I don't quite get this "string".find()
References: <mailman.6274.1100201807.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<opshb098fw1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
Message-ID: <4193ccd1$0$87167$a1866201@visi.com>

On 2004-11-12, Caleb Hattingh <caleb1 at telkomsa.net> wrote:

> I don't know why the function was set up this way.  However, an empty  
> string can be found in an infinite number of places within any other  
> string.

How so?  There aren't an infinite number of places _in_ a
finite-length string.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Mr and Mrs PED, can I
                                  at               borrow 26.7% of the RAYON
                               visi.com            TEXTILE production of the
                                                   INDONESIAN archipelago?


From Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de  Mon Nov 29 10:02:01 2004
From: Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:02:01 +0100
Subject: network programming without goto (refactoring)
In-Reply-To: <41a87f8e$0$25763$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
References: <mailman.6783.1101394437.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-2D5E23.12225225112004@reader1.panix.com>
	<10qfcmta665kbeb@corp.supernews.com>
	<roy-FF4F1B.17591526112004@reader1.panix.com>
	<41a87f8e$0$25763$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <310rvpF35q493U1@uni-berlin.de>

Nick Coghlan schrieb:
> Roy Smith wrote:
> 
>>  Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In Python, exceptions use 'raise', not 'throw'...
>>
>> Doh!  I guess it shows that I've been doing a lot of C++ lately :-)
> 
> Heh. I'm working on a Python test harness that uses a C++ hardware 
> interface module. I keep writing raise on the C++ side and throw on the 
> Python side.
> 
Isn't "throw something" a much more aggressive act than "raise 
something", and might that help? But English isn't my native language so 
I may be quite wrong.

-- 
Dr. Sibylle Koczian
Universitaetsbibliothek, Abt. Naturwiss.
D-86135 Augsburg

Tel.: (0821) 598-2400, Fax : (0821) 598-2410
e-mail : Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.DE


From rtw at freenet.co.uk  Tue Nov 30 13:40:36 2004
From: rtw at freenet.co.uk (Rob Williscroft)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 18:40:36 GMT
Subject: comment out more than 1 line at once?
References: <cohc71$2pqli$1@claire.desy.de>
	<Xns95B1B4E0EFF52ukcoREMOVEfreenetrtw@130.133.1.4>
	<mailman.6944.1101838678.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns95B1BDCFAA265ukcoREMOVEfreenetrtw@130.133.1.4>

Gustavo C?rdova Avila wrote in news:mailman.6944.1101838678.5135.python-
list at python.org in comp.lang.python:

> Actually, it's infinitly [sp?] more defficient
> (contrary of efficient?) than triple-quoted strings
> or line-by-line comments, because those two never
> make it to execution stage, because they're dropped
> by the compiler. :-)
> 

>>> False = True
>>> if False:
	print "It Seems you are right"

	
It Seems you are right
>>> 

:-)

How about: 

if 0: 
  print "unreachable ??"

Rob.
-- 
http://www.victim-prime.dsl.pipex.com/


From levub137 at wi.rr.com  Sun Nov 28 14:43:20 2004
From: levub137 at wi.rr.com (Raymond L. Buvel)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 13:43:20 -0600
Subject: [ANN] rpncalc-1.0 RPN Calculator For Python
In-Reply-To: <cod15o$lo5$1@news.cc.tut.fi>
References: <mailman.6851.1101655836.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>
	<41a9fd4e$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net> <cod15o$lo5$1@news.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <BRpqd.45$NO5.25@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>

Heikki Orsila wrote:
> Kent Johnson <kent3737 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>>The .tar.gz file seems to be corrupt, opening it with WinZip it 
>>uncompresses the .gz then I get "Error reading header after processing 0 
>>entries."
> 
> 
> Bug in winzip? tar xfz rpncalc-1.0.tar.gz works just fine. However, there's
> an invalid symlink inside the package:
> 
> $ tar tvfz rpncalc-1.0.tar.gz 
> ...
> lrwxrwxrwx rlb/rlb           0 2004-11-22 00:11:06 rpncalc-1.0/examples/poly.py -> /data/projects/poly/poly.py
> 
> $ md5sum rpncalc-1.0.tar.gz 
> 0b8eb872fb0937eca079489e184ddf9f  rpncalc-1.0.tar.gz
> 
> Is your packet valid? Check the md5sum.
> 

The symlink problem is fixed and I added a .zip version.  Hopefully, the 
  .zip version will work with WinZip but since I don't have a Windows 
box available to test it on, there are no guarantees.


From nospam at free.fr  Wed Nov 24 10:50:20 2004
From: nospam at free.fr (App)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:50:20 +0100
Subject: Is there any tools to create User Interface (Dialogs...) for
	wxPython visually?
Message-ID: <41a4adf0$0$17787$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

I am looking for something like VB6.0 IDE to design visually UI et 
application but using Python.

Thank you for your help.





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 14 03:47:01 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 09:47:01 +0100
Subject: Sorting email addresses by domain
References: <20041111015848.QUUY10582.aamta03-winn.mailhost.ntl.com@Bender>
	<mailman.6251.1100140737.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gn8igv.5j4w6l18wns0wN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jp Calderone <exarkun at divmod.com> wrote:
   ...
>   In Python 2.3,
> 
>     def key(addr):
>         parts = addr.split('@')
>         parts.reverse()
>         return parts
>     addresses.sort(lambda a, b: cmp(key(a), key(b)))

I'd prefer DSU...:

def key(addr): return addr.split('@', 1)[::-1]

aux = [ (key(a), a) for a in addresses ]
aux.sort()
addresses[:] = [ x for __, x in aux ]

if you do want to isolate 'key' into a function rather than expanding it
inline in the LC (and I do think that naming it helps).


>   In Python 2.4, re-using the above definition of key:
> 
>     addresses.sort(key=key)

Yep, that's equivalent to the 2.3's DSU.  The temptation to use a lambda
for the key is strong, of course, 'cuz 'key=' already does some 'naming'
and the whole construct is SO compact...:

    addresses.sort(key=lambda a: a.split('@', 1)[::-1])

but it seems to me that, again, a named function ends up clearer.


Alex


From mesteve_bpleaseremovethis at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 23 23:02:08 2004
From: mesteve_bpleaseremovethis at hotmail.com (StvB)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 04:02:08 GMT
Subject: Book recommendation
References: <30ictaF2vhlgoU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4JTod.25842$6q2.13782@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>

There are four books I always recommend:
 1. The must-learn-Python-from-this-book book that I recommend is Diving 
Into Python by Mark Pilgrim

 1a. Then,  you think of your own small/medium-size project, and start 
writing it.

 Now that you have been introduced in a friendly and painfree way,
   from Diving Into Python,  and you're pumped emotionally
  from actually writing Python(1a) , start reading:

2. O'Reilly's Learning Python,  to really drive in  the
    language syntax and features, and have a
    comprehensive, well-organized book on every part of Python,
    ready to check back to,  when you need a lot of help on a particular 
topic.
  Just read it front and back, when you get the chance.

  And these two books are a must, IMO
3.   Python in a Nutshell
4.   Python Cookbook  <-- avail online too, though



"Madhusudan Singh" <spammers-go-here at spam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:30ictaF2vhlgoU1 at uni-berlin.de...
> Hi
>
> I am trying to teach myself Python. I have extensive prior programming
> experience in Fortran, a little in C/C++,  Pascal, etc.
>
> So far, I have been reading online tutorials at www.python.org and a book 
> I
> found at the library - Martin Brown's The Complete Reference Python. Is
> there a standard classic book to learn from that I could buy ?
>
> Say something like Metcalf and Reid's Fortran 90/95 Explained or Kernighan
> and Ritchie's The C Programming Language.
>
> 




From franck.lepoutre at caramail.com  Fri Nov 19 06:56:30 2004
From: franck.lepoutre at caramail.com (francois lepoutre)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:56:30 +0100
Subject: persistent CGI pattern at google.com (was why python?)
Message-ID: <419ddd06$0$12268$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-05.noos.net>

Hi all,

> Google itself is a python success story - for example this here:
>  https://adwords.google.com/support/bin/topic.py?topic=102

Sure, it looks like google.com is using some kind of
cgi process to run python code. Kind of good news
for those selling python-based stuff.

I expect google use some sort of persistency layer
(mod_python, fastcgi ...) to run their python cgi code
effectively.

Anyone knows the way their python code is delivered
at adwords ?

Fran?ois





From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Nov 19 19:14:26 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:14:26 -0800
Subject: generic object - moving toward PEP
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3245260@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Steven Bethard wrote:
> So I thought I'd try to summarize a few things here and maybe we can 
> move toward filing a PEP.  I'm not really sure I'm the right 
> person to 
> champion it because, as I've mentioned, I usually eventually replace 
> generic objects with concrete classes, but I'm certainly 
> willing to do 
> some of the work writing it up, etc.  If you're interested in helping 
> me, let me know (off-list).
> 
> Some quotes from this thread:
> 
> Hung Jung Lu wrote:
>  > It seems odd that there is no standard generic object in Python.
> 
> Fernando Perez wrote:
>  > IPython has this fairly fancy Struct module, which is 
> yet-another-shot
>  > at the same thing.
> [snip]
>  > But if someone does add a fully functional contribution of 
> this kind,
>  > with enough bells and whistles to cover the more advanced 
> cases, I'd
>  > be +100 on that :)
> 
> Some arguments for a generic object:
> 
> (1) Allows a simple syntax for returning named results:
> 
>  >>> def f(x):
> ... 	return bunch(double=2*x, squared=x**2)
> ...
>  >>> y = f(10)
>  >>> y.double
> 20
>  >>> y.squared
> 100
> 
> (2) Allows simple representation of hierarchical data:
> 
>  >>> x = bunch(a=bunch(b=1, c=10), d=100)
>  >>> x.a.b
> 1
>  >>> x.d
> 100
> 
> Note that without a generic object class of some sort this would 
> probably be written as something like:
> 
>  >>> class C1(object):
> ... 	def __init__(self, a, d):
> ... 		self.a, self.d = a, d
> ... 		
>  >>> class C2(object):
> ... 	def __init__(self, b, c):
> ... 		self.b, self.c = b, c
> ... 		
>  >>> x = C1(a=C2(b=1, c=10), d=100)

No, it would be written:

>>> x = dict(a=dict(b=1, c=10), d=100)

I don't see anything bunch offers over dict() for this example. If
you're returning a value that needs to be unpacked positionally, use a
tuple. If it needs to be unpacked lexically, use a dict. I have yet to
see an example where it's advantageous to support both, while still
being able to use a simple, generic 'bunch' object--as soon as you need
both, you've outgrown "bunch".


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From sav at ulj.menatepspb.com  Fri Nov  5 02:05:34 2004
From: sav at ulj.menatepspb.com (Alexander Semenov)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:05:34 +0300
Subject: bit operations with python?
References: <36680182.0411041847.397f48fe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <418b263f$1@post.ulj.menatepspb.com>

Hi,

 J> Take part2.dat and XOR(the ^ operator) each byte of it with its own
 J> value and put the result into a new file called part3.dat.
 J> # Finally take part3.dat and add (+) every byte together, append
 J> _solution to the resulting number, and enter it in the box below."

I think, it's a joke. Result will be 0, python not needed.

Alexander Semenov.




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Nov 16 02:37:47 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:37:47 -0800
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <1gnc2jt.uw5i19s61aieN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.6397.1100570319.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnc2jt.uw5i19s61aieN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041115231733.F95E.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

[snip your better implementation]

> but the point is whether, if and when 'optional static typing' _syntax_
> gets it, it will have this semantics or that of inserting a lot of
> typechecks... people can do typecheks or adaptation now, and neither
> will go away -- but which, if either, should syntax facilitate?  That,
> as I see it, is key.

I guess it all depends.
"In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess."
"Explicit is better than implicit."

With the requisite zens quoted, I'd say that there should be an explicit
way to do both, because guessing which one (but not both) is necessarily
the wrong thing to do.

With that said, type-based dispatch, checking and adaptation are
provided by decorators, which are explicit.  They are not a syntax
per-se, but they will get the job done in the mean time (if placing type
checking and adaptations in the function body is not sufficient).

 - Josiah



From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  6 21:54:30 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 21:54:30 -0500
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6032.1099794432.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<mailman.5999.1099743679.5135.python-list@python.org>	<418D61D3.3040904@acm.org>
	<mailman.6032.1099794432.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418d8d7a_2@newspeer2.tds.net>

Terry Hancock wrote:
> The reality is that [Python] isn't really all *that* slow to execute,
> and later versions have gotten quite a bit faster.
> 
> But it remains really fast to develop in. ;-)

> Certainly
> Java is going to be faster than Jython (Python running on a
> Java platform).

This is sort of like saying that C is faster than Python. To the Java 
programmer, it's an excuse to avoid looking at Jython. To the Jython 
programmer, it's "Yes, and your point is...?"

The reality is that Jython isn't really all *that" slow to execute.

But it remains really fast to develop in. ;-)

And you can always recode critical sections in Java for speed.

OK, you can probably guess what language I use in my day job now...

Kent


From vincent at visualtrans.de  Fri Nov 19 02:24:43 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 08:24:43 +0100
Subject: using the bsddb from Python (missing docs!)
In-Reply-To: <4edc17eb.0411180549.33719f1e@posting.google.com>
References: <4edc17eb.0411180549.33719f1e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cnk73p$113$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>

Michele Simionato wrote:
> I was browsing through the source tree of Python 2.4b2 and in Lib/bsddb/test 
> I found a lot of interesting stuff. It seems that the support for the bsd
> database is much better than documented in the standard library
> http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/module-bsddb.html.
> There are tests for locking, transactions, join, etc.
> Is there some documentation anywhere? 
> I could infer what I need from the tests but maybe there is already
> some nice article on the net explaining everything I want to know and more
> ;-) OTOH, I do not find Python-centric documentation in the sleepycat web 
> site.
> 
>            Michele Simionato

The bsddb3 package has become part of the standard library as of 2.3, I 
believe. The docs for this "full blown" bsddb package are not (yet) part 
of Python docs, but off-site on http://pybsddb.sourceforge.net/bsddb3.html.

Slightly OT, but maybe of interest, is that the Python bsddb package 
allows you to use the full power of BerkeleyDB even if you decide to 
make your projects closed-source - should you have any licensing doubts.

Kind regards,

--
Vincent Wehren





From caleb1 at telkomsa.net  Fri Nov 26 21:07:29 2004
From: caleb1 at telkomsa.net (Caleb Hattingh)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 21:07:29 -0500
Subject: dictionary initialization
References: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<lIydnVF-WvXK3TvcRVn-jA@rogers.com>
	<slrncqciv9.ip7.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<co5j9k$jgv$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<mailman.6817.1101490908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncqerc9.sic.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <opsh3pirx21js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>

Hi Weiguang

I know how it is when discussion becomes religious, and I want to avoid  
that.  First, I want to clarify exactly what it is that you are saying:

Would I be correct in saying that your point is that with awk, you can  
just do something like (ignore the syntax)

	(x not existing yet)
	x+=1

And have x = 1, while in Python you have to do

	(x not existing yet)
	x=0
	x+=1

And then have x=1?   Is this the question of debate here?  One line of  
initialisation to specify the type?

IF this is the point you are making, and the awk functionality demostrated  
in this particular example is a really significant feature for you in your  
specific problem domain, then I must concede that awk is probably right  
for you, and you shouldn't waste your time with Python.

Keep well
Caleb


On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:53:12 +0000 (UTC), Weiguang Shi  
<wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca> wrote:

>
> You mean in Python, of course. I can see this is going the religious
> direction now.
>
> All in all, I've realized when a language generalizes and abstracts,
> it loses convenience. Because of this, however powerful other
> languages become, awk always has its place as long as the application
> is there.
>
> Weiguang



From carribeiro at gmail.com  Tue Nov 23 06:12:10 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:12:10 -0200
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <Xns95AA61D98B7D7duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net> <Xns95AA61D98B7D7duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <864d37090411230312538bfc7e@mail.gmail.com>

On 23 Nov 2004 09:37:11 GMT, Duncan Booth <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Lenard Lindstrom wrote:
> 
> > Actually I believe Microsoft is just trying to keep Visual Basic distinct
> > from potential competitors.
> 
> Probably not even that. Microsoft are simply grabbing patents for anything
> they think is remotely patentable. The primary reason for doing this is
> probably defensive: if anyone threatens to sue Microsoft for patent
> infringement they can almost certainly find grounds to countersue. This is
> a useful position for Microsoft since they have said that in nearly all
> cases they will indemnify their customers against claims that Microsoft
> software infringes patents.
> 
> (see http://news.com.com/Microsoft+to+back+customers+in+infringement+cases/2100-1014_3-5445868.html)
> 
> Of course they can then use this stance as an argument against using 'risky'
> non-Microsoft software.

It's actually worse and much more dangerous than this. It's not a
simply defensive move. It's a preemptive defensive move against
open-source software. With patents will become impossible to implement
software that is compatible with MS offerings. This problem has
already bitten some projects, particularly Samba and some X related
projects, specially color management and font rendering (which the
play field is full of patents, some actually worthy, some silly).

With patents, Microsoft can also strike back at open-source with an
economical argument: "I am the innovator and those guys are copying my
innovation and dumping the market with cheap copies". Its a good
argument for courts, and one that a conservative administration (read
Bush) is ready to buy.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Nov 14 23:36:23 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:36:23 -0600
Subject: .pyc files...
In-Reply-To: <w5GdnQyrL4ReuwXcRVn-gA@rogers.com>
References: <1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.6345.1100420943.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpel29.hfd.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<2mqfp0tuuutj01njq2400trfhd4vtbv81m@4ax.com>
	<x7wtwolygl.fsf@guru.mired.org> <w5GdnQyrL4ReuwXcRVn-gA@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <16792.12871.145052.442747@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Dan> I have yet another solution to this problem and my solution is
    Dan> platforms-independent.  Look especially at the "Mini Tutorial" on
    Dan> http://pyfmf.sourceforge.net/zago.html.  It shows exactly how you
    Dan> can clean up the .pyc and the .pyo files in a set of directory
    Dan> trees.  

Note that PEP 304 is about more than just cleaning up .py[co] files.  For
any number of reasons you might want to write them in non-standard places,
not just remove them after-the-fact.

Skip


From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Nov  7 20:40:16 2004
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 01:40:16 -0000
Subject: Python for Reverse Engineering
References: <cmhdi4$7vi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu><418c50ad$1_3@omega.dimensional.com>
	<418C54E9.2000409@vt.edu>
	<mailman.6042.1099806403.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmlhv8$ajc$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cmlj6b$7j9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <cmmihf$7af$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>


"Brad Tilley" <rtilley at vt.edu> wrote in message
news:cmlj6b$7j9$1 at solaris.cc.vt.edu...
> Duncan Smith wrote:
> >>If your friend was worth his salt as an algorithm writer, he'd be
more...
> >>But--he is probably making impossible claims here, anyway...
> >>
> >
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > Doesn't that depend on exactly what is meant by "figure out exactly how
the
> > algorithm works"?  If it means identify (with absolute certainty) the
> > algorithm used to generate the strings, then it surely can't be
possible.
> >
> > Duncan
>
> That's my thought as well. I don't want to know exactly how the
> algorithm generates strings. But, I think that if I analyze enough
> strings I should know, on some level, what an acceptable string looks
like.
>
> Samba coders never see Microsoft's file and print sharing source code,
> yet they are able to emulate an NT server quite well just by observing
> packets.

Right, so you might be able to come up with something that produces similar
output.  Do you know if the strings are generated independently?  If so,
there must be some stochastic component (or unknown inputs) or the strings
would be identical.  How about the frequencies of the characters?  Are some
(significantly) more frequent than others?  Do some characters follow others
with unusually high frequency?  Do characters tend to cluster (more or less
that you'd expect from independently generated characters)?  Unless the
strings are very long you probably can't answer these questions too reliably
with only 100 strings.

Markov Chains are a possibility (as already mentioned).  I'd probably start
by looking at the simpler things first.  The 1000 to 1200 sum might be a
clue, particularly if you're having trouble emulating it.  Of course, if
this turns out to be some sort of code and you're looking at some encoded
text, then that's something I know little about, and the above might be next
to useless.

Maybe the basic statistical tests in Gary Strangman's stats.py would be
useful, unless you already have R and RPy?

Duncan




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 14 03:47:01 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 09:47:01 +0100
Subject: sockets: How to know when your data is sent
References: <f00811ba.0411090653.5f6d1d29@posting.google.com>
	<4190e27f$0$95596$a1866201@visi.com>
	<K4k*FXdzq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Message-ID: <1gn8j2u.osmbo7lkajlhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Sion Arrowsmith <siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> >The way to tell that data has been sent is to use an
> >application-level protocol that acknowleges the data transferr.
> 
> applies in spades if you care about reliability.

Oh yep:
http://web.mit.edu/Saltzer/www/publications/endtoend/endtoend.pdf


Alex


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Tue Nov 23 22:51:08 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:51:08 -0800
Subject: HTML stylesheet expander?
Message-ID: <8idd72-j1o.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Does anyone have any code or pointers to something
that can take some HTML with CSS style information
and expand it into HTML that works pre-CSS.

For example, say I had a style like this:

 .citation { font-style: italic }

And had HTML like this:

  <p class="citation>foo bar</p>

Then the results produced are:

  <p><i>foo bar</i></p>

This does get somewhat complicated as the styles can be
"nested", apply to contained elements, expand to attributes
or new tags etc.

I generate the HTML and "own" the stylesheets.

The reason behind this is that the wxWidgets HTML control
doesn't support styles, and so something like this has to
be done to get the same kind of effect.

I do have a current solution that uses HTMLParser and
hierarchical style information that works, but really don't
like it.  It requires every HTML tag to be perfectly closed
and is very hacky.

There is talk on the wxPython group of using Mozilla or KHTML
but these aren't available on Windows, Linux and Mac, and/or
you get an entire tabbed browser etc in the deal.

Roger 




From ed at leafe.com  Sun Nov  7 11:58:21 2004
From: ed at leafe.com (Ed Leafe)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 11:58:21 -0500
Subject: determine IP
In-Reply-To: <20041107165357.14104.909475493.divmod.quotient.1252@ohm>
References: <20041107165357.14104.909475493.divmod.quotient.1252@ohm>
Message-ID: <3ADD583A-30DE-11D9-A056-003065B11E84@leafe.com>

On Nov 7, 2004, at 11:53 AM, exarkun at divmod.com wrote:

>   The above code will _always_ return the local IP address, regardless 
> of NAT configuration.  For example, running on my desktop:
>
>>>> import socket
>>>> s = socket.socket()
>>>> s.connect(('google.com', 80))
>>>> print s.getsockname()
>     ('192.168.42.4', 40044)
>>>>
>>>>

	Not OMM:

 >>> import socket
 >>> s = socket.socket()
 >>> s.connect(('google.com', 80))
 >>> s.getsockname()
('66.66.222.137', 55096)
 >>>

	The local IP address is in the 192.168 subnet.

      ___/
     /
    __/
   /
  ____/
  Ed Leafe
  http://leafe.com/
  http://dabodev.com/



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  7 02:30:35 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 08:30:35 +0100
Subject: PEP new assert idiom
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmurvv.1meude125h1zrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6027.1099792216.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gmvgit.vzj5g4hv9dsrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

F?bio Mendes <niels_bohr at uol.com.br> wrote:
   ...
> > called, would differ from those of
> > 
> > assert exp1 and exp2 and exp3 ... and expN, 'errormsg'
> 
> This is very similar to what I'm proposing, with the only inconvinience
> that is uglier to type:
> 
> assert \
>   exp1 and \
>   exp2 and \
>   ...
>   expn,
>   'ErrorMsg'
> 
> Instead of:
> 
> assert \
>   exp1,
>   exp2,
>   ...
>   expn,
>   'Errormsg'

So follow PEP 8's recommendation instead:

assert (
   exp1 and
   exp2 and
   ...
   expn
   ), 'Errormsg'

I don't see the parentheses (which clarify the syntax issue you
mentioned in your first post) and 'and' as any uglier than the commas.
And having commas mean line continuation is out of the question.


Alex


From remy.blank_asps at pobox.com  Fri Nov  5 03:49:02 2004
From: remy.blank_asps at pobox.com (Remy Blank)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 09:49:02 +0100
Subject: Has anyone released a Python "mock filesystem" for automated
 testing?
In-Reply-To: <OImdnYXxIItbfhfcRVn-iA@powergate.ca>
References: <OImdnYXxIItbfhfcRVn-iA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <cmfepu$mmp$1@sea.gmane.org>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Googling the archives and the web suggests that only I and
> Remy Blank have done much along these lines.  I don't see
> any sign that anyone has actually released such a beast
> yet, however.

Not yet, not yet...

> For now, in case anyone is interested, I have support
> for basic open, read/write, __iter__, close, "r" and "w"
> modes, a couple of the most basic exceptions, and a
> tiny handful of lesser things.  All well supported by
> their own unit tests, of course, to ensure quality.

The status on my side is that I have the "read-only" portion working
quite well, with support for file attributes (stat) but no access
checking yet. Also supported by a unit test suite.

However, when I started on the "write" code, I stumbeled on a few areas
where I wasn't sure how the system should behave. A few examples:

 - Where do you land if you chdir("/dir1/symlink/../subdir") when
symlink points to /dir2/subdir? If you os.abspath() the path before
interpretation, you land in /dir1/subdir. If you don't, you land in
/dir2/subdir.
 - Who can remove a file?
 - Who can change the mode of a file? Its owner and group?
 - Which operations change atime? mtime? ctime?
 - What exceptions are thrown for various error conditions?

Those are the simple ones I remember, but I know there were other where
I couldn't find the solution easily in manpages. And I didn't want to
have to look everything up in the Linux kernel source code. So the next
idea was to change the test suite so that it could run either on the
real filesystem, or on the mockfs. That way, I could ensure that the
behaviour was identical.

This proved to be more challenging than I thought, because for most
tests (chmod, chown, access control) you need to be root to run the test
suite. And I felt too uncomfortable running a test suite that could "rm
-rf /" by mistake, as root.

So the next idea was to write a framework where you could run test cases
within a chroot()'ed environment, so that (as long as you don't use
chroot() in you test cases) you were pretty safe not to wipe your harddisk.

This has finally worked out better than I had expected. I have a
"JailTestCase" that creates a new directory for every test case,
chroot()s to it in setUp(), runs the test case and exits the chroot jail
in tearDown() (that part was tricky). There is also a preJailEntry()
hook for e.g. unpacking a tar archive into the directory before entering
the chroot jail. The jail directories are never removed automatically,
so they can be examined in case of failure. Obviously, it works only on
*nix type systems.

I have also implemented a FileSystem class that allows the easy creation
of all filesystem entities (files, directories, pipes, sockets, ...).

Here's a class/def description of the library:

def enterJail(path):
def exitJail():

class JailTestCase(unittest.TestCase):
        def setJailDir(path):
        setJailDir = staticmethod(setJailDir)
        def jailDir():
        jailDir = staticmethod(jailDir)
        def __init__(self, methodName='runTest'):
        def preJailEntry(self):
        def setUp(self):
        def tearDown(self):

class RealFilesystem:
        def createFile(self, path, mode=None, uid=None, gid=None,
atime=None, mtime=None, content=None):
        def createDir(self, path, mode=None, uid=None, gid=None,
atime=None, mtime=None):
        def createSymlink(self, path, uid=None, gid=None, atime=None,
mtime=None, target=None):
        def createCharDevice(self, path, major, minor, mode=None,
uid=None, gid=None, atime=None, mtime=None):
        def createBlockDevice(self, path, major, minor, mode=None,
uid=None, gid=None, atime=None, mtime=None):
        def createPipe(self, path, mode=None, uid=None, gid=None,
atime=None, mtime=None):
        def createSocket(self, path, mode=None, uid=None, gid=None,
atime=None, mtime=None):

So I am now at the point where I could resume working on mockfs. Now,
one of the reasons why I wanted a mockfs library (besides having to run
tests as root) was that I was afraid that using the real filesystem
would be too slow. Well, I was proven wrong while implementing this
ChrootJail module: it is actually quite fast. At the moment, I am
wondering if it wouldn't be more efficient to just polish up this
ChrootJail module and use that instead of a mockfs.

If you're interested, I can send you the module with its unit test
suite. Feedback is as always very welcome.

Best regards.
-- Remy


PS: Here's the class/def state of my mockfs (some functions are not yet
fully functional):

class Inode(object):
        def Size(self):
        def IsDirectory(self):
        def IsSymLink(self):
        def AddLink(self):
        def RemoveLink(self):
        def ExtraStatFields(self):
        def Stat(self):

class DirectoryInode(Inode, dict):
        def __setitem__(self, Key, Value):
        def __delitem__(self, Key):
        def clear(self):
        def update(self, Rhs):
        def setdefault(self, Key, Value):
        def pop(self, *Args):
        def popitem(self):

class FileInode(Inode):
class SymLinkInode(Inode):
class PipeInode(Inode):
class SocketInode(Inode):
class DeviceInode(Inode):
class BlockDeviceInode(DeviceInode):
class CharDeviceInode(DeviceInode):

class File(object):
        def __init__(self, FileName, Mode="r", BufSize=-1):
        def close(self):
        def flush(self):
        def read(self, Size=-1):
        def readline(self, Size=-1):
        def readlines(self, SizeHint=None):
        def xreadlines(self):
        def seek(self, Offset, Whence=0):
        def tell(self):
        def truncate(self, Size=None):
        def write(self, Str):
        def writelines(self, Sequence):
        def __iter__(self):
        def next(self):

class MockFilesystem(object):
        def __init__(self):
        def AddDirectory(self, Path, **KwArgs):
        def AddFile(self, Path, **KwArgs):
        def AddSymLink(self, Path, **KwArgs):
        def AddPipe(self, Path, **KwArgs):
        def AddSocket(self, Path, **KwArgs):
        def AddBlockDevice(self, Path, **KwArgs):
        def AddCharDevice(self, Path, **KwArgs):
        def AddHardLink(self, Path, Target):
        # Substitutes for os functions
        def chdir(self, Path):
        def getcwd(self):
        def getcwdu(self):
        def chroot(self, Path):
        def chmod(self, Path, Mode):
        def chown(self, Path, Uid, Gid):
        def lchown(self, Path, Uid, Gid):
        def listdir(self, Path):
        def lstat(self, Path):
        def readlink(self, Path):
        def remove(self, Path):
        def rmdir(self, Path):
        def stat(self, Path):
        def statvfs(self, Path):
        def unlink(self, Path):
        def utime(self, Path, Times):



Remove underscore and suffix in reply address for a timely response.



From dwelch91 at comcast.net  Thu Nov 18 22:53:44 2004
From: dwelch91 at comcast.net (djw)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 03:53:44 GMT
Subject: ping-based network monitoring GUI?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6519.1100737717.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6519.1100737717.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b7end.111889$HA.35372@attbi_s01>

Count L?szl? de Alm?sy wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> I'm in need of a simple GUI application that "monitors" a range of
> hosts using ping and reports on their status by changing the panel
> color for that host (i.e, green for pingable, red for unreachable). 
> 
> Does anyone know of any existing opensource program that does this?
> Preferably Python so I can extend it easily.
> 
> If not, what tools would you recommend I write this kind of app in?
> Ping doesn't seem to be supported by Python out of the box, and the
> modules I've looked at seem sketchy.  I looked at Expect, and see
> there's a Pexpect module available.  Once I have the core
> functionality nailed down, I'll probably wrap it with Tkinter.
> 
> Thanks for any advice.

Won't something like this work for you?

http://www.gnist.org/~lars/code/ping/ping.py

-Don


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Nov 21 04:03:51 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:03:51 +0100
Subject: [Python-Dev] enhanced gdbinit file - looking for
 Python+Emacs+gdb users
In-Reply-To: <16800.7760.739724.695902@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <16800.7760.739724.695902@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <41A059F7.4080909@v.loewis.de>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
> There's one slight hitch.  It works perfectly when travelling up the C stack
> using the up command, however in my environment at least (MacOSX w/ Apple's
> gcc and gdb) it causes gdb to segfault when travelling down the stack.  I
> can't see anything that would make the behavior different going up instead
> of down.  I need some people to try this thing out to see if it barfs for
> them as well.  Maybe it's just something peculiar to my environment.  OTOH,
> perhaps it's a bug in gdb.

Without actually looking at your code: a segfault in gdb is always a
bug, even if triggered through gdb macros.

Regards,
Martin


From autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Nov 29 02:40:01 2004
From: autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Robson)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 07:40:01 +0000
Subject: The use of :
References: <89cc6e1f.0411251858.40b6bbc7@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.26.08.33.40.219098@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<89cc6e1f.0411260953.4b6b98e7@posting.google.com>
	<zyUpd.6$d74.2@read3.inet.fi>
	<41aa1abb$0$25542$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<30ukhmF357ptdU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<Avpqd.55491$Ni.1918466@twister1.libero.it>
	<pan.2004.11.29.05.11.43.180223@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6859.1101676234.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.29.06.12.15.87220@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.29.07.40.00.830863@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 01:12:16 -0500, Jeremy Bowers wrote:

> The only punctuation you *need* is whitespace. See Forth (I don't know
> if this is perfect but I'd bet the transform is simple),

: Announce ." Forth has a fair bit of punctuation" ;


From heuer at quixs.com  Thu Nov 25 08:02:46 2004
From: heuer at quixs.com (Lars Heuer)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 14:02:46 +0100
Subject: XUL Parser?
In-Reply-To: <30lqprF322r8kU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.6758.1101313933.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Ya-dnTB88a2fVzncRVn-ug@speakeasy.net> <30lqprF322r8kU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <621759880.20041125140246@quixs.com>

Hi Leif,

>> Considering that there's no real XUL specification

> Anything wrong with <http://www.mozilla.org/projects/xul/xul.html>?

IMO http://xulplanet.com/ is more productive.
Especially http://xulplanet.com/references/elemref/ may help.

Best regards,
Lars



From dgilbert at dclg.ca  Tue Nov 23 17:10:07 2004
From: dgilbert at dclg.ca (David Gilbert)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:10:07 -0500
Subject: Python Function pointer in C
Message-ID: <16803.46399.299447.209391@canoe.dclg.ca>

I'm trying to maintain the interface to KQueue for FreeBSD.  At one
point, the C module stores an opaque object in a C structure such that
the opaque pointer can be used later by the application.

In Python, I want to say something like:

        kev = [KEvent(1000, filter=EVFILT_TIMER, flags=EV_ADD|EV_ONESHOT,
                     udata=lambda x: getJob(x, con))]
        kq.event(kev, 0, 0)

and later, this is used by 

    kev = kq.event(None, 1, 0)
    print "Kevent Triggered! %s" % str(kev)

    # Call event's udata
    kev.udata(kev)

... so this doesn't work.  Specifically:

[3:4:304]dgilbert at canoe:~/devel/SoftGrabber> python
Python 2.3.4 (#2, Nov  2 2004, 16:03:35) 
[GCC 3.4.2 [FreeBSD] 20040728] on freebsd5
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import kqsyscall 
>>> from kqsyscall import *
>>> kq = kqueue()
>>> kev = kevent(1000, EVFILT_TIMER, EV_ADD+EV_ONESHOT, 0, 0, lambda x: x+1)
>>> kev
<KQEvent ident=1000 filter=-7 flags=11 fflags=0 data=0 udata=0x81b4fb4>
>>> kev.udata
<function <lambda> at 0x81b4fb4>
>>> kev.udata(1)
Segmentation fault (core dumped)

Now the code in the C module (kqsyscall above) defines the kevent()
return as the following object:

static struct memberlist KQEvent_memberlist[] = {
  {"ident",     T_UINT,         OFF(e.ident)},
  {"filter",    T_SHORT,        OFF(e.filter)},
  {"flags",     T_USHORT,       OFF(e.flags)},
  {"fflags",    T_UINT,         OFF(e.fflags)},
  {"data",      T_INT,          OFF(e.data)},
  {"udata",     T_OBJECT,       OFF(e.udata)},
  {NULL}        /* Sentinel */
};

And it also defines various support functions.

How do I define "udata" such that I can stuff the lambda reference in
there?

Now... I've wondered if this is a reference counting issue --- but
this still happens when I use the name of a module global function as
udata.

Dave.

-- 
============================================================================
|David Gilbert, Independent Contractor.       | Two things can only be     |
|Mail:       dave at daveg.ca                    |  equal if and only if they |
|http://daveg.ca                              |   are precisely opposite.  |
=========================================================GLO================


From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Nov 12 14:57:51 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:57:51 GMT
Subject: permuting letters and fairy tales
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6313.1100288445.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <67lld8kr76.fsf@aster.homelinux.net>	<34Skd.24295$KJ6.17501@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<4195217c$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<mailman.6313.1100288445.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B8ld.24947$KJ6.15770@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Steven Bethard wrote:
> Is there any reason not to use [A-z] type regexps?

Better support for internationalization, so it will
work in Espa?a and G?teborg.



				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From info at armand.it  Thu Nov  4 03:46:06 2004
From: info at armand.it (Armand Federico - INFO)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:46:06 +0100
Subject: recover data from html form
Message-ID: <cmcqf0$e1n$3@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>

How can i recover data from an html module?
I have a form that send 3 or 4 text field

I wanna to recover this data, to analyse, and process, and insert in MySQL

(mod_python, Mysql4, Apache1.3)





From exarkun at intarweb.us  Tue Nov  9 13:27:50 2004
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (exarkun at intarweb.us)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 18:27:50 GMT
Subject: Concise idiom to initialize dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <419105EF.1020503@hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <20041109182750.20649.393280342.divmod.quotient.760@ohm>

On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 19:01:19 +0100, Gert-Jan den Besten <gj.den.besten at hccnet.nl> wrote:
>Frohnhofer, James wrote:
> > My initial problem was to initialize a bunch of dictionaries at the start of a
> > function.
> > 
> > I did not want to do
> > def fn():
> > 	a = {}
> > 	b = {}
> > 	c = {}
> > 	. . .
> > 	z = {}
> > simply because it was ugly and wasted screen space.
> > 
> > First I tried:
> > 
> > 	for x in (a,b,c,d,e,f,g): x = {}
> > 
> > which didn't work (but frankly I didn't really expect it to.)
> > Then I tried:
> > 
> > 	for x in ('a','b','c','d','e','f','g'): locals()[x]={}
> > 
> > which did what I wanted, in the interpreter.  When I put it inside a function,
> > it doesn't seem to work.  If I print locals() from inside the function, I can
> > see them, and they appear to be fine, but the first time I try to access one
> > of them I get a "NameError: global name 'a' is not defined"
> > 
> > Now obviously I could easily avoid this problem by just initializing each
> > dictionary, but is there something wrong about my understanding of locals,
> > that my function isn't behaving the way I expect?
>
> Any variable you assign within a function, is local to that function. 
> You cannot refer to it from the enclosing function or module.

  This is actually not the problem being experienced.  The actual problem is much more subtle and insidious.  Consider this example:

    >>> locals()['x'] = 'y'
    >>> print x
    y
    >>> 

  All appears well!  Mutating the object returned by locals() lets us change arbitrary names in our local scope.  Great.  Now, let's go write a program:

    exarkun at boson:~$ cat > foo.py
    def foo():
        locals()['x'] = 'y'
        print x
    foo()
    exarkun at boson:~$ python foo.py
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "foo.py", line 4, in ?
        foo()
      File "foo.py", line 3, in foo
        print x
    NameError: global name 'x' is not defined
    exarkun at boson:~$ 

  "_Whaaaaat_?" you say.  "It's doing exactly the same thing!" you say.  Well, not quite.

  Mutating the objects returned by both locals() and globals() is a no-no.  They are intended to provide _read only_ access to those two scopes.  Since they return dictionaries, you _can_ actually mutate them, though.  And mutating globals() even works as expected; however, mutating locals() does not.

  So why did it work in the interactive interpreter?  Well, because of this nifty little fact:

    >>> locals() is globals()
    True
    >>> 

  Oops.  At the top-level of the interactive interpreter, there is no distinct local scope, just like at the top-level of a module.  So the locals() function just returns the globals dictionary, which happens to respect modifications.

  Kind of surprising, eh?

  Luckily for the original poster, namespaces aren't the only dicts in town.  What he really wants to do is something like this:

    someDictionaries = []
    for name in ('a', 'b', ..., 'z'):
        aDict = someDictionaries[name] = {}
        aDict[foo] = bar
        ...

  Later, someDictionaries, itself a dictionary, can be used to retrieve the dictionaries which were created and given "names" of 'a', 'b', etc.

  Jp


From dieter at handshake.de  Sun Nov 21 13:30:33 2004
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: 21 Nov 2004 19:30:33 +0100
Subject: generic object - moving toward PEP
References: <aJtnd.118100$HA.81413@attbi_s01>
Message-ID: <x7sm735a2e.fsf@handshake.de>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> writes on Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:38:14 GMT:
> ...
> Some arguments for a generic object:
> 
> (1) Allows a simple syntax for returning named results:
> 
>  >>> def f(x):
> .... 	return bunch(double=2*x, squared=x**2)
> ....
>  >>> y = f(10)
>  >>> y.double
> 20
>  >>> y.squared
> 100
> 
> (2) Allows simple representation of hierarchical data:
> 
>  >>> x = bunch(a=bunch(b=1, c=10), d=100)
>  >>> x.a.b
> 1
>  >>> x.d
> 100
> ...
> (3) Allows simple conversion from dict-style access to attribute access:
> 
>  >>> d = {'a':2, 'b':4, 'c':16, 'd':256}
>  >>> d['a'], d['d']
> (2, 256)
>  >>> b = bunch(**d)
>  >>> b.a, b.d
> (2, 256)
> 
> This could actually be supported recursively, if that seems useful:
> 
>  >>> d = {'a':2, 'b':4, 'c':{'d':16, 'e':256}}
>  >>> b = bunch.frommapping(d)
>  >>> b.c.d
> 16

How about:

        class bunch:
          def __init__(self, d__=None, **kw):
            d = self.__dict__
            if d__ is not None: d.update(d__)
            d.update(kw)


You can drop the "d__" magic, when you do not need direct
"dict --> bunch" conversion (of the form "bunch(dict)")
but use a special method ("frommapping") for this.

--
Dieter


From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Thu Nov 11 14:25:36 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:25:36 +0100
Subject: pickle: huge memory consumption *during* pickling
In-Reply-To: <cn00o5$r0j$1@fuerst.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
References: <cn00o5$r0j$1@fuerst.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
Message-ID: <20041111192536.GA7872@nl.linux.org>

Hans Georg Krauthaeuser wrote:
> Today morning we reached the situation that it took 6 hours to pickle 
> the class instance. The pickle file was than approx. 92 MB (this is ok). 
> During pickling the memory consuption of the python proccess was up to 
> 450 MB (512 MB RAM -> machine was swapping all the time).
> 
> My class use data types taken from a c++ class via swig. Don't know if 
> that is important...
> 
> My feeling is that I'm doing something wrong. But my python knowlegde is 
> not so deep to see what that is.
> 
> Is there an other way to perform an autosave of an class instance? Shelve?

Are you sure you are using cPickle as opposed to pickle?

regards,
Gerrit Holl.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 11/11 19:25:
	-1.0?C   wind 0.4 m/s None (57 m above NAP)
-- 
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of
unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the
military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of
misplaced power exists and will persist.
    -Dwight David Eisenhower, January 17, 1961


From autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Nov 23 02:09:10 2004
From: autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Robson)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 07:09:10 +0000
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.23.07.09.08.229463@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:53:37 +0000, Lenard Lindstrom wrote:

> No, Claim-2 refers to a "BASIC-derived programming language". Description 42
> claims "BORLAND DELPHI" is such a "BASIC-like or BASIC-derived language". Now I
> have not used Delphi but understand it is a kind of Pascal.

Delphi *is* Pascal - or Borland's variant of it anyway. 

It's an extension of Object Pascal, which came in with Turbo Pascal 5.5
and was (I think) designed by the guy responsible for the C# design,
Andreas Heiljberg (?).

I bought a copy of this in I reckon about 1986ish. Visual Basic debuted in
1991.



From tiarno at sas.com  Thu Nov  4 08:11:57 2004
From: tiarno at sas.com (Tim Arnold)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:11:57 -0500
Subject: HP10.x and PIL
Message-ID: <cmd9qu$333$1@license1.unx.sas.com>

Has anyone successfully compiled PIL on HP10.x system?
I beat on it most of yesterday, no luck.
with gcc, the libImaging code compiles fine, and
setup.py build runs fine until link-time (to create _imaging.sl) with this
error:

collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
/bin/ld: Invalid loader fixup for symbol "ImagingDestroyArray".
error: command 'ld' failed with exit status 1

I'm still on Python 2.2, on a HP-UX-B.10.20 system.
any ideas appreciated.
--Tim





From tiarno at sas.com  Tue Nov  2 10:31:47 2004
From: tiarno at sas.com (Tim Arnold)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 10:31:47 -0500
Subject: fastest way for humongous regexp search?
References: <cm5lv3$7p4$1@license1.unx.sas.com>
	<sZqdnc_PlckB8BvcRVn-pw@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <cm8993$gp8$1@license1.unx.sas.com>


"Istvan Albert" <ialbert at mailblocks.com> wrote in message
news:sZqdnc_PlckB8BvcRVn-pw at giganews.com...
> Tim Arnold wrote:
>
> > I've got a list of 1000 common misspellings, and I'd like to check a set
of
> > text files for those misspellings.
>
> A much simpler way would be to just store these misspellings as a
dictionary
> (or set), read and split each line into words, then check whether each
> of words is in the set.
>
> Istvan

Thanks, I didn't know that would be faster.
But I need to match against the misspellings in a case-insensitive
way--that's the reason I'm using the regular expressions.

--Tim




From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov 15 14:00:05 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 20:00:05 +0100
Subject: arrays
References: <a2f50cd.0411151042.45487164@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cnaubk$m09$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Rahul Garg wrote:

> Hi.
> Is there someway i can get something similar to multi-dimensional
> arrays in python.I dont want to use Numarray.
> rahul

Use lists in lists.

>>> foo = [[1,2], [3,4]]
>>> print foo[0][1]
2


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From mike at hobbshouse.org  Tue Nov  9 12:08:50 2004
From: mike at hobbshouse.org (Michael Hobbs)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 17:08:50 -0000
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com> <2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<60dfb6f6.0411050715.601f381f@posting.google.com>
	<2v82u3F2dhtcpU1@uni-berlin.de> <cmoqn9$cbf$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <10p1ud2juqlkb7c@corp.supernews.com>

JCM <joshway_without_spam at myway.com> wrote:
> Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
>> Carl Banks wrote:
>>> I recommend we stop using "weak/strong typing" as a technical term,
>>> and leave it to be a meaningless buzzword for the ignorant peasantry.
> 
>> How about:
> 
>>     solid typing -- sharp boundaries between types, few
>>                     automatic coercions
> 
>>     fluid typing -- lots of automatic coercions
> 
>> (Don't ask me what "gaseous typing" might mean...)
> 
> I think both liquids and gases are considered fluids.  Liquid Typing
> and Gaseous Typing would be sub-categories.

I was thinking that "rigid" would be the antonym of "fluid".

I'm not sure which would be the most accurate juxtaposition:
   solid vs. liquid
or
   rigid vs. fluid
or
   gaseous vs. plasmatic
or
   sticky vs. solvent
I could go on...

- Mike



From craig at yuma.ca  Sun Nov 21 10:42:15 2004
From: craig at yuma.ca (craig)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 08:42:15 -0700
Subject: Looking for a good interactive shell
References: <cnq463$19n9$1@news.uit.no>
Message-ID: <2004112108421575249%craig@yumaca>


I'm a ipython guy, since I just found it a few weeks ago.  I LOVE it!  
I have all but replaced zsh with the pysh version of ipython.  Anyways, 
just use VIM as your external editor :P

http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=850

That is the python autocomplete stuff for vim.   Obviously you could 
use any editor you like, and right now I'm using textmate, a beautiful 
little OSX editor(not free however).

Anyways, ipython, with vim and pydiction gives you mutliline 
editing(it's still an external editor)....

You can actually do multiline editing in ipython, with the up and down 
arrows.  I do quite a bit right there..

Otherwise I don't know of anything else that exists, I just learned 
about pycrust today, but after looking I think I'm too addicted to pysh 
to even try it.

P.S. I'm not trying to start an external editor war, most good external 
editors will do command completion for python I imagine.

Hope this helps,
Craig

On 2004-11-21 06:11:27 -0700, "Tomas" <1cdq3arii001 at sneakemail.com> said:

> Hi!
> 
> I'm looking for a replacement for the standard interactive python 
> shell. So far I've tried IPython and PyCrust. I liked both, but I'm not 
> 100% happy with any of them. My main complaint about IPython is its 
> missing support for multiline editing. To do multiline editing, it has 
> to start an external editor, but then I lose all the nice features like 
> autocompletion.
> 
> PyCrust supports multiline editing, but the autocompletion is not as 
> good as in IPython. It also lacks many of IPython's advanced features, 
> like pdb-integration, magic commands and custom macros.
> 
> Does anyone know of any other interactive python shells with good code 
> completion and multiline editing?
> 
> -Tomas




From vincent at visualtrans.de  Sat Nov 13 08:49:55 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 14:49:55 +0100
Subject: MySQL on Win32
In-Reply-To: <41960739$0$182$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <41960739$0$182$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <cn53e2$8aj$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>

merman wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> is there a third-party module to access to MySQL on Windows? I read 
> MySQLdb works on Linux only.

Where did you read that? It works fine on Windows, too.

Regards,

--
Vincent Wehren




> 
> Thanks.
> 
> o-o
> 
> Thomas


From drlinux at columbus.rr.com  Sun Nov  7 20:39:04 2004
From: drlinux at columbus.rr.com (Dave Reed)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 21:39:04 -0400
Subject: Stop spaces from appearing when printing to file
In-Reply-To: <cmmgiu$id5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <cmmgiu$id5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <200411072039.04489.drlinux@columbus.rr.com>

On Sunday 07 November 2004 20:02, Brad Tilley wrote:
> I'm printing some info into a txt file that will be uploaded into a 
> MySQL DB. I use ';' as field separaters. How can I stop spaces from 
> appearing on both sides of the ';'
> 
> When I do this:
> 
> print >> x,';',object,";",AN_string,";",ascii,";",sum
> 
> My file looks like this:
> 
> ;12345 ; 23456 ; [1,2,3,4,5] ; 15
> 
> I need it to look like this to make the DB happy:
> 
> ;12345;23456;[1,2,3,4,5];15


Instead of using print, open a file and use the "write" method of the
file object. See the documentation for file objects for more detail.

Dave




From adurdin at gmail.com  Fri Nov  5 00:51:53 2004
From: adurdin at gmail.com (Andrew Durdin)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 16:51:53 +1100
Subject: CGIs and file exclusion
In-Reply-To: <c23mo05bflf3t4jpiii7sei7ock504003q@4ax.com>
References: <2uvedvF2g1pv3U1@uni-berlin.de> <cmecq2$ksm$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c23mo05bflf3t4jpiii7sei7ock504003q@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <59e9fd3a041104215117c4c2ce@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 21:19:19 -0800, Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote:
> "Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote:
> >
> >I'd suggest using ZODB instead of directly pickling - then every cgi can
> >open the database with its own connection. ZODB will manage concurrency
> >issues.
> 
> Holy moley, isn't that something like recommending a turbocharged,
> 12-cylinder, air-conditioned SUV as a cell phone charger?
> 
> Sure, Zope is the answer, but only if you phrase the question very, very
> carefully.

Note that he said ZODB, not Zope -- ZODB can be used on its own
without the rest of Zope -- see
http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/FrontPage


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Nov 16 07:40:17 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 07:40:17 -0500
Subject: cgi.FieldStorage() is slow
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6402.1100584911.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6402.1100584911.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <REmmd.10661$nj.5428@lakeread01>

Nehal wrote:

> i wanted to created a simple CGI script for uploading files to my
> http server, and decided to use python for it. it seems to work
> fine except for one issue: there is a lot of CPU overhead.
> 
> after profiling, it seems like:
> 	self.read_lines_to_outerboundary()
> which is called from
> 	cgi.FieldStorage()
> is the reason why it's so slow.
> 
> when uploading small files, you won't notice a difference, but if
> you upload files larger than 2 megs, you can notice it. this
> happens on both win2k and freebsd
> 
> is there some other way to process CGI, excluding doing it all
> manually? will this code be improved in the future?
> -- thx, Nehal

The cgi module is a confusing mess of code munged, over the years, by 
many hands. It would take a brave programmer to plunge in and do what's 
necessary.

not-brave-enough-ly y'rs  - steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Fri Nov 19 09:32:53 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:32:53 -0200
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
	number of output arguments)
In-Reply-To: <1gnhvee.q8h31aastcqN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de> <419bbf2a.319309032@news.oz.net>
	<1gnf7n6.1spfeu41yhjcdaN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<419cc167.385418983@news.oz.net>
	<1gnhvee.q8h31aastcqN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <864d370904111906321c65875c@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:58:17 +0100, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
> 
> > >? No they're not -- a caller knows them, in order to be able to call
> > >with named argument syntax.
> > >
> > I guess you mean keyword arguments, so yes,
> 
> I hate to call them 'keyword' arguments when they aren't (check with the
> keyword module: it will confirm they aren't keywords!-).
> 
> > but for other args I would argue that the caller's
> > knowledge of formal parameter names really only serves mnemonic purposes.
> 
> How does that differ from returning a tuple-with-names?

There is a small difference. In some instances, it's *necessary* to
know the name of the argument; for example, if you want to provide a
partial argument list (the only plausible option involves knowing the
default values of the ommited arguments so you can provide all
arguments as positional ones, but that's ends up being about the same
as far as coupling is concerned).

On the other hand, when a named tuple is used to return a value the
caller isn't required to know the name of the argument. He can
*always* refer to it positionally. (the difference is in the fact that
there are no default values in the "return signature", if we may talk
about such beast).

> > I.e., once the calling code is written, e.g. an obfuscated-symbols
> > version of the function may be substituted with no change in program
> > behavior. So in that sense, there is no coupling: the writer of the
> 
> If the caller doesn't use argument names, you can change argument names
> without breaking the caller.
> 
> If the caller doesn't use field names in a returned tuple-with-names,
> you can change the field names without breaking the caller.
> 
> I don't see any difference.
> 
> > calling code is not forced to use any of the function's internal names
> 
> Same for a tuple-with-names being returned.
> 
> > in _his_ source code. This is in contrast with e.g. a returned dict or
> > name-enhanced tuple: he _is_ forced to use the given actual names in _his_
> > code, much like keyword arguments again.
> 
> Dicts are another issue.  As for tuples-with-names, no way:
> 
>     a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i = time.localtime()
> 
> this works, of course, and the caller doesn't have to know which field
> is named tm_day and which one tm_hour or whatever else, unless the
> caller WANTS to use such names for mnemonic purposes.
> 
> The situation is as strictly parallel to passing functions to ordinary
> Python functions as two issues can ever be in programming: foo(a, b, c)
> works but so does foo(bar=b, baz=a, fee=c) if that's the calling style
> the caller prefers for mnemonic/clarity/style reasons.

As I pointed out above, it's not *strictly* parallel. However, I
concede that knowledge about the positional parameters also introduces
a great deal of coupling, more than I assumed at first.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Thu Nov  4 02:18:32 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 02:18:32 -0500
Subject: pep 336:  Make None Callable
In-Reply-To: <4189b29c.1567244508@news.oz.net>
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>
	<4189b29c.1567244508@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <4189D7C8.5040705@rogers.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

>On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 20:59:43 -0700, The Eternal Squire <eternalsquire at comcast.net> wrote:
>  
>
...

>>Abstract
>>
>>    None should be a callable object that when called with any
>>    arguments has no side effect and returns None.
>>    
>>
...

>IMO in the context of selectable actions, the noop should be a noop function,
>not None, e.g.,
>
>    def Noop(*args, **kwargs): pass
>  
>
IMO this (defining an object (e.g. a function)) which is explicitly 
intended to be used for such a thing is far better than adding to the 
semantics of None at this late date.  For instance, the original 
proposal would completely change the semantics of this code:

    method = methods.get( someKey )
    try:
        method( my, arguments, are=here)
    except TypeError, err:
        pass

it would also alter the results of this:

    callable( None )

so that any code which is using the exception-raising or callable to 
catch an undefined method-table-lookup will now fail (silently, I might 
add).

Defining a function/object for use in such situations is fine, but 
altering such commonly referenced functionality of one of the most 
"core" objects in Python is, I would suggest, a seriously sub-optimal 
forward path.  The path forward, I would think, would be to find a good 
place for such a function/object to live and slotting it in there so 
that it's naturally available.  If there were, for instance, a 
"functional" module, with such an object in it, it would make perfect 
sense to write:

    methods.get( somekey, functional.noop )

and you would get the functionality without muddying the semantics of 
None at this late date.

Just MHO,
Mike

________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it  Sat Nov 20 09:53:06 2004
From: rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it (gabriele renzi)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:53:06 GMT
Subject: perl -pi.bak  -e equivalent
In-Reply-To: <cnngpb$qtm$05$3@news.t-online.com>
References: <c9eae90e.0411200507.3b3e90e3@posting.google.com>
	<cnngpb$qtm$05$3@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <mTInd.42443$Ni.1480118@twister1.libero.it>

Diez B. Roggisch ha scritto:

> Caj Zell wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hello,
>>
>>I am looking a little bit at python and am curious of one thing I
>>often use in perl. Suppose, I want to change the string
>>"best_composer" to "Zappa" in a document called facts.txt, then in
>>perl I would do
>>
>>perl -pi.bak  -e "s/best_composer/Zappa/;" facts.txt
>>
>>Can I do that with python from the command line so easily?
> 
> 
> Short answer: No. Perl is designed for this kind of stuff. Python won't
> catch up in that field, for various reasons. There have been plenty of
> discussions on the subject of one-liners in python - googl.groups will show
> you to them. 
> 
> As always, its important to use the right tool for the job - and in this
> case, I'd even go for sed :)
> 
> sed s/best_composer/Zappa/ < facts.txt > pi.bak
> 
> is even shorter...

let me suggest pyone:
http://www.unixuser.org/~euske/pyone/

It is really an erethic twist of python, anyway

PS
the perl code does not do the same thing than the sed one, it creates a 
backup file named facts.txt.bak and changes facts.txt



From kayschluehr at gmx.de  Sun Nov 28 10:17:01 2004
From: kayschluehr at gmx.de (Kay Schluehr)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 16:17:01 +0100
Subject: How to extend inner classes?
Message-ID: <41A9EBED.3000107@gmx.de>

>>/ You can define a class variable Pos with the class Pos as its value
/>>/ 
/>>/ class PeriodicGrid :
/>>/     class Pos:
/>>/       pass            
/>>/     Pos = Pos 
/>>/ 
/>>/ >>> grid = PeriodicGrid()
/>>/ >>> grid.Pos()
/>>/ <__main__.Pos instance at 0x00EEFAD0>
/
> You can, but that 'Pos = Pos' statement in this code is just as
> redundant and useless as it appears.  In every aspect, the behavior will
> be exactly identical if you remove that assignment.

> Alex

*sigh* 

It's a matter of good i.e. bad taste. Ususally I prefer constructs like this:

class Pos:
    class Pos:
        def __init__(self):
            self.__dict__ = Pos.__dict__
    Pos = staticmethod(Pos)

and spread them all over my code thinking they are genuine Pythonic
with the emphasis of the original meaning of the word and for sake of the
great ancestors. I call them "strange idiom" idioms and they are
made for torturing mankind. If a believing christ would ask me why i do so
the answer would be: calling the animal and accelerating judgement day.

Bye and have a nice Sunday afternoon

Kay






From caleb1 at telkomsa.net  Thu Nov 11 22:28:46 2004
From: caleb1 at telkomsa.net (Caleb Hattingh)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:28:46 -0500
Subject: I don't quite get this "string".find()
References: <mailman.6274.1100201807.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <opshb098fw1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>

Hi Jaime

I don't know why the function was set up this way.  However, an empty  
string can be found in an infinite number of places within any other  
string.  It is a difficult situation, like dividing zero into a nonzero  
number.  (Are you asking why it specifically returns 0 and not INF or an  
exception...?)

If you want to match a *blank*, you gotta do

>>> "test".find(" ") # There is a space between the last two ""s
-1
>>> _

but I expect you are aware of this and this was not your question.  Also,  
if you want to check whether a string is empty, I do

>>> "test" == ""
False
>>> _

One of the gurus can probably answer you better than I.

thx
Caleb


On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:36:41 -0600, Jaime Wyant <programmer.py at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> Will someone explain this to me?
>
>>>> "test".find("")
> 0
>
> Why is the empty string found at position 0?
>
> Thanks!
> jw



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  8 16:18:57 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 14:18:57 -0700
Subject: ANN: IPython 0.6.4 is out.
Message-ID: <cmons1$rog$1@sea.gmane.org>

Hi all,

I'm glad to announce that IPython 0.6.4, an enhanced interactive Python shell, 
is finally out. IPython's homepage is at:

http://ipython.scipy.org

and downloads are at:

http://ipython.scipy.org/dist

I've provided RPMs for Python 2.2 and 2.3, plus source downloads (.tar.gz and
.zip for Windows users).

Debian, Fink and BSD packages for this version should be coming soon, as 
therespective maintainers have the time to follow their packaging procedures 
many thanks to Jack Moffit, Andrea Riciputi and Dryice Liu)

Many thanks to Enthought for their continued hosting support for IPython, and 
to all the users who contributed ideas, fixes and reports.


*** WHAT is IPython? IPython tries to:

1. Provide an interactive shell superior to Python's default. IPython has many
features for object introspection, system shell access, and its own special
command system for adding functionality when working interactively.

2. Serve as an embeddable, ready to use interpreter for your own programs.
IPython can be started with a single call from inside another program,
providing access to the current namespace.

3. Offer a flexible framework which can be used as the base environment for
other systems with Python as the underlying language.


*** IMPORTANT NOTE:

Unless any important bugs are found, this version will likely be the last 
ipython release for quite some time.  I intend to (finally) start a major 
internal cleanup, as described in:

http://ipython.scipy.org/doc/new_design.pdf

This process will likely take a while; even though it's relatively
straightforward, there is a _lot_ of code to go through.  In a few weeks, I
will probably open a separate CVS branch for this, so that I can still fix
bugs for version 0.6.4 in CVS HEAD if they are found.  Needless to say, any
volunteers are welcome to help :)

Once the new branch becomes reasonably stable, it will be released, and I hope
this will soon after lead to an official '1.0' release for ipython.


*** NEW for this release:

Now, on to the usual summary of changes in IPython 0.6.4 vs 0.6.3.  As always,
the complete NEWS file can be found at http://ipython.scipy.org/NEWS, and the
whole ChangeLog at http://ipython.scipy.org/ChangeLog.

- License changed to BSD: IPython is now fully licensed under the terms of the
BSD license (except for a few MIT-licensed files which have always been there;
the MIT license is very similar to BSD).

- Changed the explicit magic escape from @ to %, to conform with the
introduction of Python @decorators in Python 2.4.  IPython 0.6.4 should be
100% compatible with Python 2.4.

- Many small improvements which mainly matter to users of the matplotlib
support (via -pylab).  These fix a number of problems, crashes and annoyances
present in 0.6.3.

- Small fixes and hardenings against crashes which could be caused by buggy
third-party code run from within ipython.  There are currently no known
ipython crash cases.

Enjoy, and as usual please report any problems.

Regards,

Fernando Perez.



From evenprimes at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 10:39:31 2004
From: evenprimes at gmail.com (Chris Cioffi)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:39:31 -0500
Subject: pep 336: Make None Callable
In-Reply-To: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <f03f4fdf04110407394b24e7cd@mail.gmail.com>

At first I really liked this idea, however as I thought about it I
really came to dislike it.

None isn't Null.  I write a lot of dispatch style code and I use the
fact that None isn't callable to speed up debugging.  I'll do
something like this:

if __debug__:
    noop = None
else:
    noop = DoNothing
methods.get(value, noop)()

This lets me catch errors quickly while debugging, and lets my
DoNothing function (which may just log the fact that a error occured)
keep the program running as long as possible.  I suspect that this
idiom is fairly common.

While I would support the addition of a builtin Null object (I stole
the one from then cookbook for my use), I don't like the idea of
extending None.

While right now it's more of a viseral gut feeling, I really like the
idea that None is the anti-object.  It is itself and nothing more. 
Even when we type it: None.  it's the only builtin that is
capitalized.  Not just a none, but the None.  The definate article. 
The alpha and omega, unchanging and unwilling to act.

My vote is -1.

Chris

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 20:59:43 -0700, The Eternal Squire
<eternalsquire at comcast.net> wrote:
> PEP: 336
> Title: Make None Callable
> Version: $Revision: 1.1 $
> Last-Modified: $Date: 2004/11/03 16:58:30 $
> Author: Andrew McClelland
> Status: Draft
> Type: Standards Track
> Content-Type: text/plain
> Created: 28-Oct-2004
> Post-History:
> 
> Abstract
> 
>     None should be a callable object that when called with any
>     arguments has no side effect and returns None.
> 
> Motivation
> 
>     To allow a programming style for selectable actions that is more
>     in accordance with the minimalistic functional programming goals
>     of the Python language.
> 
> Rationale
> 
>     Allow the use of None in method tables as a universal no effect
>     rather than either (1) checking a method table entry against None
>     before calling, or (2) writing a local no effect method with
>     arguments similar to other functions in the table.
> 
>     The semantics would be effectively,
> 
>         class None:
> 
>             def __call__(self, *args):
>                 pass
> 
> How To Use
> 
>     Before, checking function table entry against None:
> 
>         class Select:
> 
>             def a(self, input):
>                 print 'a'
> 
>             def b(self, input):
>                 print 'b'
> 
>             def c(self, input);
>                 print 'c'
> 
>             def __call__(self, input):
>                 function = { 1 : self.a,
>                          2 : self.b,
>                          3 : self.c
>                        }.get(input, None)
>                 if function:  return function(input)
> 
>     Before, using a local no effect method:
> 
>         class Select:
> 
>             def a(self, input):
>                 print 'a'
> 
>             def b(self, input):
>                 print 'b'
> 
>             def c(self, input);
>                 print 'c'
> 
>             def nop(self, input):
>                 pass
> 
>             def __call__(self, input):
>                 return { 1 : self.a,
>                      2 : self.b,
>                      3 : self.c
>                        }.get(input, self.nop)(input)
> 
>     After:
> 
>         class Select:
> 
>             def a(self, input):
>                 print 'a'
> 
>             def b(self, input):
>                 print 'b'
> 
>             def c(self, input);
>                 print 'c'
> 
>             def __call__(self, input):
>                 return { 1 : self.a,
>                      2 : self.b,
>                      3 : self.c
>                        }.get(input, None)(input)
> 
> References
> 
>     [1] Python Reference Manual, Section 3.2,
>         http://docs.python.org/ref/ref.html
> 
> Copyright
> 
>     This document has been placed in the public domain.
> 
> Local Variables:
> mode: indented-text
> indent-tabs-mode: nil
> sentence-end-double-space: t
> fill-column: 70
> End:
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


-- 
<a href="http://spreadfirefox.com/community/?q=affiliates&id=0&t=1">Get
Firefox!</a>


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Nov  9 16:50:13 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 15:50:13 -0600
Subject: Embedding Python in a multi-threaded C++ application
In-Reply-To: <560b81a4041109132015dcbc21@mail.gmail.com>
References: <560b81a404110910492229b9df@mail.gmail.com>
	<20041109202122.GC3878@unpythonic.net>
	<560b81a4041109132015dcbc21@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041109215013.GE3878@unpythonic.net>

Something along the lines of PyErr_SetInterrupt() is the best you can
do in CPython, unless there's a facility I don't know about.  If your
code is not running through the Python bytecode interpreter loop, then
it's in some unknown and uninterruptable state.  I'm there may be
something else you can do, but it'll be a "you get to keep both pieces
[when it breaks]" kind of solution.

For some reasons why a facility to forcibly terminate a thread was
removed from Java, a language with a richer set of thread-related tools,
see
    http://g.oswego.edu/dl/cpj/cancel.html
down at the heading "Asynchronous Termination":
    The stop method was originally included in class Thread, but its
    use has since been deprecated. Thread.stop causes a thread to
    abruptly throw a ThreadDeath exception regardless of what it is
    doing. (Like interrupt, stop does not abort waits for locks or IO.
    But, unlike interrupt, it is not strictly guaranteed to abort wait,
    sleep, or join.)

    This can be an arbitrarily dangerous operation. Because Thread.stop
    generates asynchronous signals, activities can be terminated while
    they are in the midst of operations or code segments that
    absolutely must roll back or roll forward for the sake of program
    safety and object consistency.
The same considerations apply to Python, and additionally Python has
been designed on the side of simplicity and portability rather than to
offer all the features of some particular OS threading library.
(that said, PyErr_SetInterrupt *is* a lot like ThreadDeath, because it
can be fired at any moment the interpreter "between bytecodes", which
means all kinds of higher-level consistency requirements could be
violated)

Jeff
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From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Wed Nov  3 10:27:23 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 10:27:23 -0500
Subject: Should I learn Python?
In-Reply-To: <624a388a.0411030512.3cf84547@posting.google.com>
References: <624a388a.0411021328.5ac41f4c@posting.google.com>
	<418807d0$0$19691$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<624a388a.0411030512.3cf84547@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <heudnUA6v8pHZRXcRVn-tg@giganews.com>

Sam wrote:

> So you're saying, in order to write smart, clean, well structured,
> readable code, and have fun doing so, I'm going to have to drop PHP
> and use Python?

well yeah,

but of course it all depends on the complexity of the problem that
you have to solve.

A simple functionality, can be made into a clean, well structured readable code even
in say C shell, (I recently had to use bash, I totally forgot how frustrating and
rigid language it is ...)

Istvan.


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sat Nov  6 20:36:47 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 17:36:47 -0800
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<418C7DCB.60502@acm.org>
	<mailman.5997.1099739459.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<62kv52-npq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<1gmun13.6rynz217b0hm1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4ab062-2rs.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Roger Binns <rogerb at rogerbinns.com> wrote:
>> Incidentally, that Java code copies one character at a time.
>
> Yep, I noticed -- pretty silly, but if that's how the Java designers
> decided the read method should behave by default, who am I to argue?
> Just an example I grabbed off the net, first google hit for (if I
> recall correctly) java file reading that had the source of a complete
> example.

I/O is one area where Java is *very* different than other environments.
Java emphasises the ability to select at runtime (typically from
properties files) how to do things.  This is usually done by
having layers of interfaces, and many implementations of factories
and sometimes factories of factories.  That ultimately means
the code will work the same for almost any source and destination,
including doing buffering (an interface), byte to character
conversion (an interface), the actual source (an interface),
output (another interface).

Consequently I/O is one of the hardest things for a newbie Java
programmer to do since it appears so complex due to the flexibility
offered.  It is also why bad examples exist, because people
find what works for them and post it.

Note how in Python, files do read/write whereas sockets do
send/recv.

But you are comparing Apples to Oranges.  Java programs are written
in certain ways with various emphases (flexibility, interfaces and
factories).  Python programs emphasise other things (generators,
typing).  Exceptions are expensive in Java and not used much.  They
are "cheap" in Python and used frequently.

>> The Python code is reading the entire string into memory and
>> then writing it.
>
> Right, _Python_'s default.

Arguably Python's default is reading a line at a time, and it
is a bad default in some circumstances (large files), just
as the Java code was a bad way of doing anything but small
files.

> The claim posted to this newsgroup, without any support nor examples
> being given, was that Python's I/O was far slower than Java's in
> _disk-intensive_ operations.  I'm still waiting to see any small,
> verifiable examples of that posted on this thead.

If the language code is the same, then that claim boils down to
the Java Native Interface vs the Python C API.  In the case of
Java, I can see the claim having some relevance in multi-threaded
code since Java doesn't have the GIL.

> defaults are tuned, making Python much faster.  Great, then let those
> who claim Java's I/O is much faster in disk intensive operation post
> suitable examples, and we'll see.

Your timing included the overhead of starting up and shutting down
both environments, making the rest of the measure less than
interesting.

>> Perhaps it is also worth linking to the projects done in
>> Python on SourceForge and elsewhere?
>>
>>   http://sf.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=178
>
> If the message you're keen to send is "Python is great for
> open-source", yes.  If you're focusing on "Python is great for your
> _business_" (as the python *business* forum does, for example), then
> emphasizing open-source projects can reasonably be considered
> secondary to emphasizing projects that make or save money for the
> businesses which developed them.

The idea isn't to emphasise the open source side, but rather so
that anyone can see for themselves how it was all put together.
If I have a business critical app, and claim it is written in
Python but noone can see the insides then they can't really
know too much.  The biggest thing is that they can't tell
if they could write code like that (or even how much was written)
to produce an app of similar functionality and complexity.

Roger





From ncoghlan at email.com  Tue Nov 30 07:39:15 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 22:39:15 +1000
Subject: Class methods in Python/C?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6907.1101805784.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6907.1101805784.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41ac69f2$0$25765$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Craig Ringer wrote:
> Hi folks
> 
> I've been doing some looking around, but have been unable to find out
> how to implement class methods on Python objects written in C. "Why are
> you using C?" you ask?
> 
> Yeah, so do I. However, I need to provide bindings for an application
> that Python is embedded into, and thanks to Qt the bindings are going to
> be both simple and quite powerful. However, I need a way to do class
> methods...
> 
> If anybody has any tips on this, It'd be much appreciated.

You probably want to look at staticmethod(). (classmethod() is slightly 
different, and probably not what you want. In fact, classmethod() is practically 
*never* what you want. Guido wrote it himself, and even he ended up not using it)

class Demo(object):
   def some_static_method(some_arg_list):
     pass
   some_static_method = staticmethod(some_static_method)

Then call the function as:
   Demo.some_static_method(some_args)

In Py2.4, the method definition can be collapsed to:

class Demo(object):
   @staticmethod
   def some_static_method(some_arg_list):
     pass

Cheers,
Nick.


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Nov  4 13:14:10 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 19:14:10 +0100
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmp6xu.zmiw6gs3250sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5890.1099529745.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmpyz8.11h86a71kjmdttN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5916.1099587353.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdntd$788$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5920.1099589545.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmdrhf$d2c$04$1@news.t-online.com>

> Does this make my concern any clearer?  What I'm asking for is an example
> like yours above that not only shows that you can treat, say, the bits of
> a float as an integer, but also shows why this would be useful.

The question is  not so much if there is an actual usecase, but more that if
things _can_ be done, they inevitably _will_ be done. People have done so
all the time. I can remeber abusing 32bit pointers in 68k processors by
altering the most-significant byte. It took advantage of the fact that the
old 68k had only 24 address registers, thus ignoring the msbyte. That
allowed to pass 2 parameters in one pointer. And was for a short period of
time considered a clever trick....

Today, with lots of memory and faster processers, certain optimization
techniques that required creative reinterpretaiton of bits might have come
somewhat out of fashion - but the more low-level you get (e.g. drivers or
embedded devices) the more appaling they might look.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From timr at probo.com  Sun Nov  7 00:40:46 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 21:40:46 -0800
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c718a6cf.0411061137.683823ec@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6022.1099784038.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gjcro0lu846okdd6br5col7v20j0gfs99f@4ax.com>

Maurice LING <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote:
>> 
>> dude that "comparision" from twistedmatrix you refrence is ANCIENT!!!
>
>I am wondering the impact when IBM decided that the base memory to not 
>exceed 64kb, in the late 1960s...

What???  If you are referring to the original IBM PC, which did ship with
64k base memory, that was 1980, not 1960.  You could certainly order one
with more than 64kB.

In the late 1960s, IBM was worrying about the System/360.  It had a lot
more than 64kB of base memory.

>> it is comparing versions that are YEARS out of date and use!
>
>Are the codebase of Python 1.5.2 and Java 1.1 totally replaced and 
>deprecated?

For new development, yes, Python 1.5.2 has been totally replaced.  There
are legacy applications running in Python 1.5.2 that aren't worth the
trouble to upgrade.

>Lisp compiler is the 1st compiler to be created (according to the 
>Red-Dragon book, I think) and almost all others are created by 
>bootstrapping to LISP compiler.

That's just silly.  It is true that LISP was one of the pioneers of the
compiled languages, but other compilers were not written in LISP.  Almost
without exception, compilers were all written in assembly language until
Pascal came around.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From rcalaga at bnl.gov  Wed Nov 10 17:07:58 2004
From: rcalaga at bnl.gov (Rama Calaga)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:07:58 -0500
Subject: tkinter gnuplot
Message-ID: <4192913E.2060807@bnl.gov>

Hi, I use both python and gnuplot a lot, but I am 
unable to find a way to embed gnuplot "window/canvas" into tkinter. BLT option in 
PMW is not so powerful and not so great, any suggestions ??

thanks
ram




From uche at ogbuji.net  Sat Nov  6 21:34:51 2004
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: 6 Nov 2004 18:34:51 -0800
Subject: xml.dom.minidom appendChild/toxml formatting problem
References: <6471d296.0411051330.1477041@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d116fbae.0411061834.57b79bf3@posting.google.com>

rrarey at gmail.com (Ray) wrote in message news:<6471d296.0411051330.1477041 at posting.google.com>...

[SNIP]

> after calling domi.normalize(), domi.toxml(), and
> configFile.write(), the XML looks like:
> <Cluster Name="RAYTEST">
>    <Cluster Name="RAYTEST2"><Cluster Name="RAYTEST3"/></Cluster>
> </Cluster>
> 
> instead of how I would like it to look, which would be:
> <Cluster Name="RAYTEST">
>    <Cluster Name="RAYTEST2">
>       <Cluster Name="RAYTEST3"/>
>    </Cluster>
> </Cluster>
> 
> Or, if I append "RAYTEST3" to "RAYTEST", it comes out as:
> <Cluster Name="RAYTEST">
>    <Cluster Name="RAYTEST2"/>
> <Cluster Name="RAYTEST3"/></Cluster>
> 
> Instead of:
> <Cluster Name="RAYTEST">
>    <Cluster Name="RAYTEST2"/>
>    <Cluster Name="RAYTEST3"/>
> </Cluster>
> 
> 
> The rest of the XML file retains its original whitespace and
> linebreaks.  How can I get this to format the new changes correctly? 
> Calling toprettyxml instead of toxml seems to double the whitespace
> and linebreaks in the rest of the file.

There are many solutions to this, all of which require that you
properly understand what nodes are really there in a given DOM (and in
particular, understanding exactly how text nodes work).

One good way I've found for getting people familiar with the actual
DOM tree structure is using a GUi tree widget.  See, for instance
listing 2 in:

http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2003/04/09/py-xml.html

Anyway, for the "pretty printing confused thinsg by only adding
whitespace" complaint, I suggest you strip whitespace first.  There
are many libraries with routines for this, but you could start with
the following cookbook recipe if you like:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/303061

Good luck.

-- 
Uche Ogbuji                                    Fourthought, Inc.
http://uche.ogbuji.net    http://4Suite.org    http://fourthought.com
A hands-on introduction to ISO Schematron -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/edu/x-dw-xschematron-i.html
Schematron abstract patterns -
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-stron.html
Wrestling HTML (using Python) -
http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2004/09/08/pyxml.html
XML's growing pains - http://www.adtmag.com/article.asp?id=10196
XMLOpen and more XML Hacks -
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-think27.html
A survey of XML standards -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-stand4/


From tsaez at thesteingroup.com  Wed Nov 10 11:32:24 2004
From: tsaez at thesteingroup.com (tsaez at thesteingroup.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:32:24 +0100
Subject: MDaemon Warning - virus found: python-list@python.org
Message-ID: <20041110163424.2D79F1E4002@bag.python.org>


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From bokr at oz.net  Sat Nov 13 13:32:17 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 18:32:17 GMT
Subject: Python 2.4: Why only assignments to None are forbiden?
References: <4195190f@pfaff2.ethz.ch> <10pc53ff798bhaa@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <41962ca5.363205101@news.oz.net>

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 08:04:28 -0600, "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

>
>"Josef Meile" <jmeile at hotmail.com> wrote in message 
>news:4195190f at pfaff2.ethz.ch...
>> Hi,
>>
>> Textually from the highlights of python 2.4:
>>
>> "Assigning to None - the compiler now treats assigning to None as a 
>> SyntaxError."
>>
>> I think in general assignments to built-in types, functions, and variables 
>> should be also forbiden.
>
>As Ian points out in another response, there's been some
>discussion about making a fairly large subset of the builtins
>name space immutable, and also to disallow shadowing
>of builtins with identical names in module scope.
>
>The main reason for this is performance optimization.
>Right now, the len() function, for example, requires
>a lookup and two (!) function evaluations. If the
>compiler could trust that len() was always the function
>in the builtins, then it could compile a direct call to the
>__len__() function on the object, at a savings of the
>lookup and one function call. There is a considerable savings
>projected over the entire name builtin name space.
>
>There's always a tension between protecting people
>against common errors and keeping the language
>as flexible and dynamic as possible. I'd prefer that
>the editors and IDEs take up the slack. For example,
>I found that JEdit colorized builtins differently from
>ordinary names. This pointed out a few bad habits
>I'd fallen into, without taking away the option of
>overriding something when I really wanted it.
>
>In any case, it won't happen in 2.4.x. That kind
>of change will wait for a full point release: 2.5
>or later.
>
>John Roth
>
I don't mind things being locked or unlocked by sensible
default if I have a key. I.e., I'd like some way of telling
the compiler to generate current-style lookup code for a particular
builtin that might be optimized in the future.

Since this is a compile-time issue , perhaps it is time to consider
a pragma statement as a framework for telling python pre-runtime things
like optimization info? E.g., pragma could send in-context meta-info
to various python infrastructure components using python method call syntax
which the compiler could recognize in the token stream and compile and
execute in its working environment right then. So e.g.,

    pragma compiler.override(len=True, cmp=False)

would say "after this statement in the token stream, generate code for
old-style lookup of len (allowing overriding) and cease to do that for cmp."

Right now we can do this:

 >>> def calledat(level=2): # default = caller's caller
 ...     f = sys._getframe()
 ...     for _ in xrange(level): f = f and f.f_back
 ...     return f and '%s line %s'%(f.f_code.co_name, f.f_lineno) or '???'
 ...
 >>> def showlencall(seq):
 ...     print '---> len(%r) from %s'%(seq, calledat(2))
 ...
 >>> __builtins__.len
 <built-in function len>
 >>> def showlencall(seq):
 ...     print '---> len(%r) from %s'%(seq, calledat(2))
 ...     return __builtins__.len(seq)
 ...

Here (or at the top of this scope) we would in the future need:

 pragma compiler.override(len=True)  # be able to specify scope other than local??

 >>> len = showlencall
 >>> def foo(x):
 ...     return len(x)
 ...
 >>> foo(range(4))
 ---> len([0, 1, 2, 3]) from foo line 2
 4

Not that this shows implicit calls to __len__ in various places...
Hm, that might make an interesting pragma

    pragma compiler.methodhook(__len__= my_len_tracer)

I better stop here ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From cjw at sympatico.ca  Thu Nov 11 09:43:17 2004
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:43:17 -0500
Subject: distutils and Debian
In-Reply-To: <cmuf87$fm5$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
References: <4192AD69.5040707@sympatico.ca>
	<slrncp5cf6.v8.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<qeGdnUA1FNXrJw_cRVn-oA@giganews.com> <cmuf87$fm5$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <1UKkd.32427$km5.1574845@news20.bellglobal.com>

Robert Kern wrote:
> Istvan Albert wrote:
> 
>> Sam Holden wrote:
> 
> [Colin J. Williams wrote:]
> 
>>>> Should this be reported as a Debian bug?
>>
>>
>>
>>> No.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would say yes ... there is no logic in crippling
>> a standard python distribution. What else is missing?
> 
> 
> It's a matter of Debian policy to split things into runtime packages and 
> development packages. A Debian package that needs Python to run need 
> only depend on the main python package. Most packages that need Python 
> *don't* need distutils or the C headers or the static library.
> 
> Debian users know, or ought to, that if they want to compile 
> extra-Debian software that needs Python (or whatever) they need to 
> install the appropriate *-dev packages.
You are right, but there is a learning curve for those of us new to Linux.

I have installed the Python*-dev packages, but my present problem 
centres on installing distutils.

With >python setup.py install, I get:
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "setup.py", line 30, in ?
     packages = ['distutils', 'distutils.command'],
   File "/root/downloads/python/Distutils-1.0.2/distutils/core.py", line 
102, in setup
     _setup_distribution = dist = klass(attrs)
   File "/root/downloads/python/Distutils-1.0.2/distutils/dist.py", line 
130, in __init__
     setattr(self, method_name, getattr(self.metadata, method_name))
AttributeError: DistributionMetadata instance has no attribute 'get___doc__'

I would welcome any suggestion as to how I can work around this.

Colin W.


From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Mon Nov 22 04:46:41 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:46:41 +0100
Subject: Gnome version of Idle?
In-Reply-To: <992f396f.0411202018.1edbc6d0@posting.google.com>
References: <992f396f.0411202018.1edbc6d0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41a1b3bd$0$8792$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Dave Anderson wrote:
> I love using Idle as my IDE for python on Windows.  I've briefly tried
> some other IDE's, but the clean and simple nature of Idle keeps me
> coming back to it.
> 
> Recently, I tried out Idle on Fedora.  The lack of font selection, the
> lack of anti-aliasing, and the gaudiness of the widgets were a real
> disappointment.
> 
> I wish I could have something like a Gnome-Idle IDE, so I can have the
> beautiful IDE I'm enjoying in Windows over in Fedora-land.

No need to go GTK: just wait for tcl/tk 8.5 and you'll get widgets almost as 
cool-looking as GTK ones, since this version will include the tile extension, 
adding theme support to tk. See http://tktable.sourceforge.net/tile/

> Is their any such IDE available? or, is it even possible that I'll see
> anything like a Gnome clone or version of IDLE within the next few
> years?

Make it months (maybe even weeks...). If you have a Python version using tk 8.4 
(e.g. Python 2.3), you can even try it today by installing the tile package and 
do in your Python code something like (untested...):

from Tkinter import *
root = Tk()
root.tk.call('package', 'import', 'ttk::*')

I didn't look how to include this in IDLE, but it should be a matter of adding 
one line after the creation of the Tk instance... But take care: according to 
http://tktable.sourceforge.net/tile/doc/converting.txt, it will probably break 
quite a few things, and may even not work at all...

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From mwm at mired.org  Fri Nov  5 21:25:21 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 20:25:21 -0600
Subject: executing python code
References: <cmgvvd$chn$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<418c0870$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
	<cmh1t7$d9p$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<418c0e56_1@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <x7y8hfr9wu.fsf@guru.mired.org>

mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr) writes:

> Darren Dale <dd55 at cornell.edu> writes:
>> Yes, I did chmod, the script is in the current directory.
>> $ mycode.py
>> bash: mycode.py: command not found
>>
>> I just tried:
>> $ ./mycode.py
>> and that will execute.
>
> That means the directory isn't in your PATH environment variable,
> neither as a full path (/path/to/the/directory) nor as ".", which
> means the current directory.  For security reasons it's usually
> wise to leave "." out of your PATH, so if you don't want to type

Actually, those reasons relate to having "." early in your path. If
it's the last thing on your path, you won't trigger any trojan horses.

> ./mycode.py each time then put your scripts in a directory that
> PATH knows about.  As others have mentioned, a common place for
> a user's private scripts is in ~/bin, that is, the "bin" directory
> under your home directory.  If it doesn't exist then you can use
> mkdir to create it, and if it's not in your PATH then you'll need
> to add it.

I find that symlinking ~/src/python/mycode.py to ~/bin/mycode means I
get to invoke it without having to specify the extension, and don't
have to reinstall the file if I change it.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU  Thu Nov  4 09:05:16 2004
From: Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU (Michael J. Fromberger)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 09:05:16 -0500
Subject: pep 336: Make None Callable
References: <S-6dncb1OqobIRTcRVn-jw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <Michael.J.Fromberger-4D3433.09051504112004@localhost>

In article <S-6dncb1OqobIRTcRVn-jw at comcast.com>,
 The Eternal Squire <eternalsquire at comcast.net> wrote:

> Terry Reedy wrote:
> 
>  >> PEP: 336
>  >> Abstract
>  >>
>  >>    None should be a callable object that when called with any
>  >>    arguments has no side effect and returns None.
>  >
>> Please no.  The None object, by definition, is an object with no 
>> value, no behavior (except compares), and no specific attributes 
>> (other than those common to all descendents of object).
> 
> I always saw None not as an object without value, but as the 
> universal false or ground symbol, similar to NIL in Lisp.

To indicate falsehood, Python already has its own "False" object, which 
is much preferable, in my view, to using None for that purpose.  Adding 
functionality to None (or to False, for that matter) just to serve a 
weak standard of convenience would be foolish.

> But isn't the point of Pythonic style to write something as tersely 
> elegant as possible?

Elegant, yes, but not necessarily terse.  If you really want terse, you 
might try programming in Perl, which has punctuation overloading for 
that very purpose.  A measure of elegance may be achieved by writing a 
shorter program, but that is not, by far, the only measure, nor is it 
the most important in my view.

> I'd rather not see a bunch of null methods sprinkled thru the classes 
> in the libraries that I have to write, and I'd rather not to have to 
> import it either.

It sounds, then (as Terry Reedy said), as if your PEP should include a 
proposal for a different sort of built-in object, such as this:

  class NilClass (object):
    def __init__(self):
      pass
    
    def __call__(self, *args, **kwargs):
      return self
    
    def __nonzero__(self):
      return False
    
    def __repr__(self):
      return "Nil"

  Nil = NilClass()

I still think this is a silly idea, but at least it doesn't track mud 
all over Python's nice clean rugs.

Cheers,
-M

-- 
Michael J. Fromberger             | Lecturer, Dept. of Computer Science
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~sting/  | Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH, USA


From mwm at mired.org  Wed Nov  3 02:16:18 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 01:16:18 -0600
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
	<10of7jtm07h7f77@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.5838.1099425921.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10ogh12akkrrb97@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <x7d5yvv1vh.fsf@guru.mired.org>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:

> "John Hazen" <python-list at hazen.net> wrote in message
> news:mailman.5838.1099425921.5135.python-list at python.org...
> 1. Where do I store the module? I don't have a web site, and
> it isn't on sourceforge.

Ok, that's a definite need. Possibly python.org could host a mechanism
to allow people to post modules. I'd do it myself, but I'm not sure
how long I'm going to have my current net connection for.

> 2. For what I've done, the standard installer script required
> for PPI is stoopid. All that's really needed to install is unpack
> to the right directory. That's it. However, to use distutils I
> had to write a packager program to create all the entries
> I needed. This took me quite a few hours and left a very
> sour taste since a lot of things that I thought should have
> been automatic weren't.

I found the standard installer script trivial to set up. If it took
hours, then you're doing something wrong. It even made it possible for
me to distribute C modules to Windows, whereas those trying to build
the module on Windows prior to me putting it into distutils never
succeeded.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From poster at news.com  Fri Nov 19 13:46:35 2004
From: poster at news.com (Jeff Duffy)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:46:35 -0500
Subject: Python switch for syntax checking
Message-ID: <obrnd.30846$jE2.25588@bignews4.bellsouth.net>

Hi all.

  I've been wondering why python itself doesn't provide a switch to 
check a file for valid syntax. I know that you can currently call

python -c "import py_compile; py_compile.compile(r'MyApp.py')"

but in order to manage this effectively you have to add a shell alias, 
write a script, mess about with your editor, or what have you. This 
becomes yet another small annoyance I'd like to get rid of. I'm also 
aware of PyChecker and other lint like tools, but these run the code and 
often I don't want that.

Being able to do

python -s MyApp.py

and see any syntax errors would be a very useful thing. Is there a 
specific reason that this doesn't exist (or perhaps it does and I'm 
uninformed)? I don't see any relevant PEPs on the list, either.

Jeff Duffy


From mpapec at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 21 10:32:04 2004
From: mpapec at yahoo.com (Matija Papec)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:32:04 +0100
Subject: ftplib callbacks
Message-ID: <u0d1q0pqpr4vk9jg499mpnk2idf6ep8h8m@4ax.com>


I would like to reimplement ftplib "nlst" using ftplib.dir (ftp server
doesn't support nlst) so I'm trying to guess how to use ftp callbacks.
Any help is appreciated.
tia!

============
#!/usr/bin/python

# nlst vs list

import pprint
pp = pprint.PrettyPrinter(indent=4)

import ftplib

def myfilter(line):
        return line

ftp = ftplib.FTP("localhost")
ftp.login("mpapec", "island88")
#print ftp.retrlines("LIST")
dir = ftp.dir("", myfilter)
print dir


-- 
Matija


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 07:02:00 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:02:00 -0200
Subject: Named tuples
In-Reply-To: <k3Wmd.45854$V41.9126@attbi_s52>
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.6511.1100727971.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnf6b7.nnqkns1c991f3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6520.1100738474.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10pntj5m0spvl3f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.6521.1100740991.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<hcUmd.520265$mD.141102@attbi_s02> <419c20da.344317031@news.oz.net>
	<k3Wmd.45854$V41.9126@attbi_s52>
Message-ID: <864d3709041118040267c4fa52@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 05:04:16 GMT, Bryan <belred1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Bengt Richter wrote:
> 
> 
> > On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 02:57:23 GMT, Bryan <belred1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> >>it should be possible to avoid a recusive problem:
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>a = ('1', '2')
> >>>>>a.__names__ = ('ONE', 'TWO')
> >
> > I guess you are working with a patched version of python?
> >
> >  >>> a = ('1', '2')
> >  >>> a.__names__ = ('ONE', 'TWO')
> >  Traceback (most recent call last):
> >    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> >  TypeError: 'tuple' object has only read-only attributes (assign to .__names__)
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bengt Richter
> 
> we were discussing a feature that doesn't yet exist.  i believe it's possible to
> get around the recursion issue by only allowing the __names__ attribute to be
> accessed in the immediate explicitly called tuple.  i really do like the idea of
> named tuple elements.


There are a few requirements that can be imposed to avoid problems.
First, __names__ is clearly a property, acessed via get & set (which
allows to trap some errors). It should accept only tuples as an
argument (not lists) to avoid potential problems with external
references and mutability of the names. As for the validation, I'm not
sure if it's a good idea to check for strings. maybe just check if the
'names' stored in the tuple are immutable (or perhaps 'hashable') is
enough.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov  1 14:45:25 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 19:45:25 GMT
Subject: Faking out __name__ == __main__
References: <mailman.5739.1099260363.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41856376.1288438706@news.oz.net>
	<mailman.5749.1099296396.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmkgyb.14ofvg13qzjurN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <418690b8.1361960335@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:06:09 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

>Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
>
>> bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>> > 
>> > On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:05:59 -0500, Ed Leafe <ed at leafe.com> wrote:
>> >  >>> def test():
>> >  ...     d = {'__name__': '__xxxx__'}
>> >  ...     execfile('tmain.py', d)
>> 
>> I believe it is technically more Pythonic to use __import__ rather than
>> execfile, if only because you have access to the module itself when you
>> are done.
>
>Unfortunately, while __import__ does take parameters giving local and
>global namespaces, it doesn't use them in anywhere like the way that
>execfile does.  In particular, how would you "force __name__" with
>__import__, as per this thread's subj?  I don't think you can...
>
It seems from a quick hack that you can fake it though, by importing a dummy
and filling it:

 Python 2.3.2 (#49, Oct  2 2003, 20:02:00) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> print '%s\n%s%s' %('-'*40,open('empty.py').read(),'-'*40)
 ----------------------------------------

 ----------------------------------------
 >>> print '%s\n%s%s' %('-'*40,open('tmain.py').read(),'-'*40)
 ----------------------------------------
 print 'before'
 print 'bef localnames:', locals().keys(), locals()['__name__']
 print 'bef globalnames:', globals().keys(), globals()['__name__']

 glob_before = 'glob_before'
 class Before(object):
     def m(self): print glob_before, glob_after

 if __name__ == '__main__':
     glob_after = 'glob_after'
     class After(object):
         def m(self): print glob_before, glob_after
     print 'after'
     print 'aft localnames:', locals().keys(), locals()['__name__']
     print 'aft globalnames:', globals().keys(), globals()['__name__']
 ----------------------------------------
 >>> import empty
 >>> empty.__dict__['__name__']
 'empty'
 >>> empty.__dict__['__name__'] = '__main__'
 >>> empty.__dict__['__name__']
 '__main__'
 >>> execfile('tmain.py', empty.__dict__)
 before
 bef localnames: ['__builtins__', '__name__', '__file__', '__doc__'] __main__
 bef globalnames: ['__builtins__', '__name__', '__file__', '__doc__'] __main__
 after
 aft localnames: ['glob_before', '__builtins__', '__file__', 'After', 'glob_after', '__name__', '
 __doc__', 'Before'] __main__
 aft globalnames: ['glob_before', '__builtins__', '__file__', 'After', 'glob_after', '__name__',
 '__doc__', 'Before'] __main__
 >>> dir(empty)
 ['After', 'Before', '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', 'glob_after', 'glob_before']
 >>> empty.Before().m()
 glob_before glob_after
 >>> empty.After().m()
 glob_before glob_after
 >>> empty.glob_before
 'glob_before'
 >>> empty.__name__='tmain'
 >>> empty.__file__ = r'c:\pywk\clp\tmain.py'
 >>>
 >>> help(empty)
 Help on module tmain:

 NAME
     tmain

 FILE
     c:\pywk\clp\tmain.py

 DATA
     glob_after = 'glob_after'
     glob_before = 'glob_before'

 >>> type(empty)
 <type 'module'>

I haven't really explored all the ramifications ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Nov 30 09:48:57 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 08:48:57 -0600
Subject: From xemacs-beta mailing list
Message-ID: <16812.34905.305606.790808@montanaro.dyndns.org>


Stephen Turnbull had this to say to a correspondent on the xemacs-beta
mailing list this morning.  I think it would be just as accurate if you
replaced "XEmacs" with "Python".

    Many of the things you request are prima facie reasonable, and
    we'll certainly consider them in the light of what they would
    cost to implement.  But I rather suspect that your frustration
    level would drop considerably if you'd stop trying to Kung Fu
    XEmacs into submission, and try going with the flow,
    aikido-style.

less-tae-bo-more-tai-chi-ly, y'rs,

Skip


From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Mon Nov 22 21:18:38 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 18:18:38 -0800
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <mailman.5272.1098381729.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gm17og.ctwoqv17vkctxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<419EEEAA.D3C1046F@yahoo.com>	<mailman.6642.1100936758.5135.python-list@python.org>	<87actcrhlo.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>	<mailman.6647.1100967514.5135.python-list@python.org>	<87llcvssfy.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>
	<mailman.6681.1101114457.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <60dfb6f6.0411221818.292a9708@posting.google.com>

Richie Hindle <richie at entrian.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.6681.1101114457.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> [Isaac]
> > [...] my post didn't make
> > sense even to myself.  So I cancel that post a minute after making it,
> > although apparently my cancel posting didn't go as far as my response.
> 
> The comp.lang.python newsgroup is mirrored by the python-list at python.org
> mailing list, so canceling a message often won't work for the mailing list
> subscribers.  Your original message will already have been sent out by
> email by the time your cancel message gets through.

Also, Google ignores cancel requests.  If the article makes it to
Google's news server, which it likely will in a matter of seconds,
you're out of luck.  Probably the only thing cancel's good for these
days is _immediately_ recalling an incomplete message that you
accidentally clicked post on.

-- 
CARL BANKS


From mrchameleon at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 23 00:50:39 2004
From: mrchameleon at hotmail.com (Chris Reay)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 21:50:39 -0800
Subject: Small Database Needed
References: <20041121145440.85318.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6677.1101076901.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7652139e.0411222150.75ed8aaf@posting.google.com>

> Kevin McBrearty wrote:
> > Hello All,
> > 
> > I'm looking at implementing DB in my program for
> > analysis of CAD (STL Files).  This database will
> > require the basic functionality.
> > 
> > Query
> > Sort
> > Delete/Add Records
> > [...]
> 

http://www.netpromi.com/kirbybase.html

I've not used it, but it may fit your needs, and it's pure Python
(there's a pure Ruby version, too).


From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Mon Nov  8 15:05:00 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 12:05:00 -0800
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com> <2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<60dfb6f6.0411050715.601f381f@posting.google.com>
	<2v82u3F2dhtcpU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <60dfb6f6.0411081205.10580de0@posting.google.com>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote in message news:<2v82u3F2dhtcpU1 at uni-berlin.de>...
> Carl Banks wrote:
> > I recommend we stop using "weak/strong typing" as a technical term,
> > and leave it to be a meaningless buzzword for the ignorant peasantry.
> 
> How about:
> 
>     solid typing -- sharp boundaries between types, few
>                     automatic coercions
> 
>     fluid typing -- lots of automatic coercions

Very nice.  I bow to your metaphorical creativity.


> (Don't ask me what "gaseous typing" might mean...)

Compiler builds a directed graphs of type conversions and always
chooses the shortest path.


actually-gases-are-fluids-too-ly yr's,
-- 
CARL BANKS


From russblau at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 16 09:09:08 2004
From: russblau at hotmail.com (Russell Blau)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:09:08 -0500
Subject: int literals and __class__ (WAS: Is a list an instance of a
	class?)
References: <4197c013$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>	<ad052e5c.0411150401.2b215499@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6407.1100587895.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<_qmmd.10659$nj.4248@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <2vug0eF2ns5ftU1@uni-berlin.de>

"Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:_qmmd.10659$nj.4248 at lakeread01...
> Steven Bethard wrote:
>
> > Dan Bishop <danb_83 <at> yahoo.com> writes:
> >
> >>>>>1 .__class__  # notice the space
> >>
> >><type 'int'>
> >
> > Why does this work?  Or, perhaps my real question is why *doesn't* it
work
> > without the space?  Pointers to the appropriate point in the docs would
be
> > fine...  I assume it's something about making parsing easier...?
> >
> Yup, it's because a dot immediately following an integer would be parsed
> (strictly "lexed", I suppose) as a floating point constant,m aking the
> __class__ a syntax error.
>
> regards
>   Steve

And, in case anyone was wondering (as I was), the following works, too,
despite the fact that it looks incredibly odd:

>>> print 1. .__class__
<type 'float'>

-- 
I don't actually read my hotmail account, but you can replace hotmail with
excite if you really want to reach me.




From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Nov  9 14:12:15 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 20:12:15 +0100
Subject: Concise idiom to initialize dictionaries
References: <mailman.6164.1100018559.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmr4oj$ju0$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Frohnhofer, James wrote:

> My initial problem was to initialize a bunch of dictionaries at the start
> of a function.
> 
> I did not want to do
> def fn():
> a = {}
> b = {}
> c = {}
> . . .
> z = {}
> simply because it was ugly and wasted screen space.

Here is a bunch of dictionaries that spring into existence by what is
believed to be magic :-)

>>> class AllDicts:
...     def __getattr__(self, name):
...             d = {}
...             setattr(self, name, d)
...             return d
...     def __repr__(self):
...             items = self.__dict__.items()
...             items.sort()
...             return "\n".join(map("%s -> %r".__mod__, items))
...
>>> ad = AllDicts()
>>> ad.a[1] = 99
>>> ad.b[2] = 42
>>> ad.b[3] = 11
>>> ad
a -> {1: 99}
b -> {2: 42, 3: 11}

Peter
 



From godoy at ieee.org  Tue Nov 16 17:05:19 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:05:19 -0200
Subject: newbie question
References: <c30e885a.0411160835.35e39084@posting.google.com>
	<opshlbpglz1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
	<mailman.6458.1100641729.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3acth78m8.fsf@g2ctech.com>

James Stroud <jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu> writes:

> I have done shell programming in both python and perl for some time. I love 
> both languages for different reasons. At the risk of sounding like language 
> evangelicalism, though, I will advise you to use python exclusively. 
> Sometimes without thinking I still reach for perl to do 'shell' scripting (by 
> thinking in perl and beginning with the infamous "#! /usr/bin/perl -w"). In 
> these cases I invariably finish and say to myself "I should have done this in 
> python."

That makes two of us. :-)

But I'm going more to Python now.  I used to do a lot of things faster
in Perl when I was beginning with Python, now I am a lot faster in
Python. :-)  The main advantage is that Python comes with batteries
included ;-)

-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at ieee.org>


From mensanator at aol.com  Thu Nov  4 20:18:20 2004
From: mensanator at aol.com (mensanator at aol.com)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 17:18:20 -0800
Subject: win 2003 server
In-Reply-To: <cmef57$7si$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <cmef57$7si$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <1099617500.572070.291610@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

FWIW, I ran Python on Windows Server 2000 without any problems.
It was interesting to see the program that made my workstation
slow to a crawl not make any of the 4 processors reach 100%
utilization.



From grante at visi.com  Mon Nov  8 19:34:30 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 09 Nov 2004 00:34:30 GMT
Subject: Determining combination of bits
References: <cmoqvv$68r$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<418fff99$0$87155$a1866201@visi.com>
	<mailman.6133.1099957705.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41901096$0$95602$a1866201@visi.com>

On 2004-11-08, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

>> The least significant bit of 110 is this one here -----+
>>                                ^                       |
>>                                |                       |
>>                                +-----------------------+
>> 
>> It's a 0 (zero).
>> 
>> What I think you're trying to say is something like the value
>> of the rightmost 1.
>
> From what I remember of high school chemistry (7 years ago), we used to
> talk about 'significant figures' quite often.  If the teacher asked for
> some number to 5 significant figures, it had better have them...
>
> sig_fig(83737256,5) -> 83737000
> sig_fig(1,5)        -> 1.0000
>
> etc.
>
> Now, in the case of 'least significant bit of n', that can be
> interpreted as either n&1, or the rightmost bit that is significant
> (nonzero).
>
> The n&-n produces the rightmost bit that is nonzero, which is certainly
> a valid interpretation of 'least significant bit of n'.

Perhaps it's "valid", but in 25+ years of doing hardware and
low-level software this is the first time I've ever heard the
phrase "least significant bit" refer to anything other than the
"rightmost" bit (the one with a weighting of 1).

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  When you get your
                                  at               PH.D. will you get able to
                               visi.com            work at BURGER KING?


From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Nov  1 17:53:59 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 14:53:59 -0800
Subject: Translating escaped characters
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E32450F3@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Henrik S. Hansen wrote:
> How do you best go about translating characters like '\\n' to '\n'?
> This is for a configuration file parser, where the "backslash
> convention" is supported.
> 
> The naive approach -- re.sub('\\\\(.)', '\\\1', s) -- doesn't work, of
> course.  The best I've come up with so far is a special case for every
> character to be translated.  There must be an easier way?

It's difficult to tell exactly what you're trying to end up with, but
raw strings are probably the answer you're looking for. In general, you
should form regexes with raw strings to keep you brain from exploding.

>>> r"\\n"
'\\\\n'
>>> re.sub(r'\\(.)', r'\1', r"\\n")
'\\n'


>From the docs:
If you're not using a raw string to express the pattern, remember that
Python also uses the backslash as an escape sequence in string literals;
if the escape sequence isn't recognized by Python's parser, the
backslash and subsequent character are included in the resulting string.
However, if Python would recognize the resulting sequence, the backslash
should be repeated twice. This is complicated and hard to understand, so
it's highly recommended that you use raw strings for all but the
simplest expressions.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From someone at microsoft.com  Wed Nov 24 16:12:10 2004
From: someone at microsoft.com (Jive)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 21:12:10 GMT
Subject: Python 2.4 and Visual C++ Express
References: <XQfod.15475$3u6.726077@wagner.videotron.net>
	<9APod.4998157$ic1.468025@news.easynews.com>
	<30ji62F31ppn0U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <KO6pd.5049226$ic1.472572@news.easynews.com>


"Steve Menard" <menard.nospam.steve at gmail.nospamisaid.com> wrote in message
news:30ji62F31ppn0U1 at uni-berlin.de...
> Jive wrote:
> > Are you saying that Python 2.4 will not compile under MS VC++ 6.0?
That's
> > horrifying.  Say it isn't so!!!  I have just ported Python to an
embedded
> > system using VC++ 6.0.  It will always be compiled using 6.0, for two
> > reasons: 1) I cannot afford the manhours for changing compilers, and 2)
Bill
> > Gates has enough money already, alright?  I would hate to think that I
am
> > now stuck at Python 2.3 for eternity.
> >
>
> That is not what I am saying. The "what's new in Python" claims python
> 2.4 will
> compile with both versions 6 and 7.1 of Microsoft's compiler.
>
> However, the  standard download, that most users will have, will be
> compiled using the 7.1. And so any binary packages to be installed on a
> 2.4 dist will also have to be compiled with 7.1.
>
>
> Steve
>

Do you mean if I install 2.4, I will have to find VC++ 7.1 versions of all
the extensions
I may be using?  If so, that's still borderline horrible, but I guess
Microsoft is the culprit. Annow
for something completely the same.

Will 7.1 extensions work with a Python.exe compiled under 6.0?

In any case, I think it would be a Good Thing if the Pythonistas provided a
download of 2.4
compiled under VC++ 6.0, in addition to the 7.1 one.

I don't suppose it will do any good to rant about Microsoft.  I believe it's
been done.





From baza at themauvezone.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Nov 15 13:21:06 2004
From: baza at themauvezone.fsnet.co.uk (Baza)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:21:06 +0000
Subject: idle on mac os 10.3.5
References: <mailman.6330.1100371619.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4fZld.7865$rh1.197730@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <BDBEA412.4D5%baza@themauvezone.fsnet.co.uk>




>> 
> Hmm..yes, just noticed that the IDLE command shell is somewhat
> dysfunctional on OS X(it fails to  >>> print "hello")... Never found it
> very useful since it doesn't include readline support. Anyway, the
> editor/debugger/browser works without a hitch on my OSX 10.3.6 system.
> What kind of trace back do you get when it crashes?
> 
> regards
> /rune


Traceback (most recent call last):

  File 
"/Applications/MacPython-2.3/IDLE.app/Contents/Resources/__argvemulator_idle
", line 4, in ?

    execfile(os.path.join(os.path.split(__file__)[0], "idle"))

  File "/Applications/MacPython-2.3/IDLE.app/Contents/Resources/idle", line
8, in ?

    import PyShell

ImportError: No module named PyShell

Barry



From bjourne at gmail.com  Sun Nov 14 18:17:10 2004
From: bjourne at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:17:10 +0100
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <20041114200132.20649.1982992758.divmod.quotient.5222@ohm>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<20041114200132.20649.1982992758.divmod.quotient.5222@ohm>
Message-ID: <740c3aec0411141517618d8db5@mail.gmail.com>

>   Guido has repeatedly stated that a future version of Python will include static type support.  The Zope project has driven numerous past changes to Python.  What's funny about this?

It sounds very "unpythonic" :) A link or two to some site that
explains a little more what "static type support" means to Python
would be nice.

-- 
mvh Bj?rn


From drew at gremlinhosting.com  Thu Nov 18 17:20:26 2004
From: drew at gremlinhosting.com (Andrew James)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:20:26 +0000
Subject: CGI and logging module
In-Reply-To: <cnj4kt$f73$04$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <419d0a70$0$221$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
	<cnj256$gmt$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<cnj4kt$f73$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <1100816426.30315.2.camel@odin>

Peter,
Have you considered using mod_python as an alternative to CGI? It offers
a number of benefits including partial session support, integration into
Apache's internals and caching bytecode. I can provide you with some
sample code if you wish (although the online documentation is very good)

Regards,
Andrew

On Thu, 2004-11-18 at 22:37 +0100, Peter Otten wrote:
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> > 2. If you want to see what is going wrong, put a try/except
> > around the import statement and try to write something useful
> > along with your results:
> > 
> > err = ''
> > try:
> >     import logging
> > except Exception, ex:
> >     err = str(ex)
> > 
> > print 'Content-type: test/html\r\n\r\n'
> > blah blah blah
> > print '<p>Error: %s</p>\r\n'
> > 
> > If you can manage to import the sys and traceback modules,
> > you can get a more fully formatted exception using
> > ''.join(traceback.format_exception(*sys.exc_info()))
> 
> I've just discovered the cgitb module, which offers a minimally intrusive
> way to debug cgi scripts - just add
> 
> import cgitb
> cgitb.enable()
> 
> at the top of the script.
> 
> (Yet another)
> Peter
> 
-- 
Andrew James <drew at gremlinhosting.com>



From luisXX_lupe2XX at netvisaoXX.pt  Mon Nov 15 13:24:29 2004
From: luisXX_lupe2XX at netvisaoXX.pt (Luis P. Mendes)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:24:29 +0000
Subject: save a dictionary in a file
Message-ID: <2vsa8hF2oa58tU1@uni-berlin.de>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi,

my program builds a dictionary that I would like to save in a file.

My question is what are the simple ways to do it?

The first solution I've thought of is to transform the dictionary in a
list, with the key being the first element on that list, and the value
as the second.  Then I could use pickle to do the write and read
operations.  It seems simple and easy.

Is there a more commonly used form to do it, yet in a simple way?

Luis
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFBmPRdHn4UHCY8rB8RApRjAKCF4/pEMbQQ10Quf5CZO/nTL2CpHgCfVWZF
G36HuPUbLXC1qtB+DP8BhK0=
=f+vS
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Wed Nov 17 15:47:38 2004
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 20:47:38 GMT
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
	number of output arguments)
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <KNOmd.39531$K7.2196@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Greg Ewing:

> Maybe things would be better if we had "dict unpacking":
>
>    a, c, b = {'a': 1, 'b': 2, 'c': 3}
>
> would give a == 1, c == 3, b == 2. Then we could
> accept outputs by keyword as well as inputs...

    Tuple returns do seem trickier than multiple arguments, partly due to
being more novel for me and partly because the function definition does not
document the tuple in code, although there is often a comment. Perhaps
something like:

def Transform(filename) -> (share, permissions, lock):
...
    return (s, p, l)
...
(s=share, p=permissions) = Transform(name)

   Neil




From mwm at mired.org  Thu Nov  4 22:31:43 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 21:31:43 -0600
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com> <2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <x7fz3pt1i8.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> writes:

> Gabriel Zachmann writes:
> In summary, there are basically three interpretations of "weak-typing" discussed
> in this thread:
>
> (1)  A language is "weakly-typed" if it allows code to take a block of memory
> that was originally defined as one type and reinterpret the bits of this block
> as another type.
>
> (2) A language is "weakly-typed" if it has a large number of implicit coercions.
>
> (3) A language is "weakly-typed" if it often treats objects of one type as other
> types.
>
> Definition 1 is the definition most commonly used in Programming Languages
> literature, and allows a language to be called "weakly-typed" based only on the
> language definition.  However, for all intents and purposes, it is only
> applicable to statically typed languages; no one on the list could come up with
> a dyamically typed language that allowed bit-reinterpretation.

Definition 1 is a black/white proposition instead of being a
continuum. Once you allow the simple case needed for real-world work
of allowing an object to be treated as whatever it is or a sequence of
bytes, you can treat any type as any other type.

> Definition 2 seemed to be the definition most commonly used on the list, most
> likely because it is actually applicable to a dynamically typed language like
> Python.  It has the problem that in a language that supports operator
> overloading (like Python), programmers can make their language more
> "weakly-typed" by simply providing additional coercions, thus whether or not a
> language is called "weakly-typed" depends both on the language definition and
> any code written in the language.

This problem can largely be made to go away by limiting it to builtin
types. Likewise for definition 3.

I'd call Ruby's allowing builtin types to be changed a
misfeature. Builtin types should be subclassed.

            <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From Python at IvoNet.nl  Wed Nov 10 14:30:22 2004
From: Python at IvoNet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:30:22 +0100
Subject: ZIP files
References: <808f000f.0411100805.7bff7e5d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <qjp4p0dp83ej0e5js9n6inippgpqefb59e@4ax.com>

On 10 Nov 2004 08:05:28 -0800, oriana.falco at thalesesec.com (Oriana)
wrote:

>Hi!
>
>
>I'm beginning to use the zipfile module in Python and I'm confused
>about something. I am trying to extract certain files from one zip and
>copy them into another one. This is the code I?ve got so far:
>
> 
>import string 
>import os, re
>from zipfile import *
>
> 
>path= raw_input("\n Please enter the zipfile to be copied: ")
>
>new_zip= ZipFile('something.zip', 'w')
>
>
>orig_zip=ZipFile(path, 'r')
>zip_files= orig_zip.namelist()
> 
>
>for file in zip_files:
>    if  file[-2:] == '.c' or file[-2:] == '.h' or file[-4:] == '.exe': 
      # don't do it like this ^^^
      if os.path.splitext(file)[1] in ['.c','.h','.exe',]: 
      # this code is cleaner ^^^
>        tempfile = open(file,'w')
>        x = orig_zip.read(file)
>        tempfile.write(x)
>        tempfile.close()
>        new_zip.write(file)
>
> 
>
>So far, this code does the work, but I think it's to much work for
>just copying entire files
Is there any other way to do this????
>Basically, what I want to do is create a copy of the zip but with a
>different name
thanks in advance, Oriana

if you want a copy of the zip  as is then:

 def filecopy(infile, outfile):
  i = open(infile, "rb")
  o = open(outfile, "wb")
  while 1:
     s = i.read(8192)
     if not s:
  break
     o.write(s)

You might wish to try using a larger buffer than 8192 bytes.  BTW,
note that Python automatically closes the files since the file objects
are released when the function returns.

Finally, if you can assume that the files are not huge, why not try
the following one-liner instead:

 open(outfile, "wb").write(open(infile, "rb").read())


if you want to copy certain files from the sourceZIP to a targetZIP
this does not work and you were doing it about right.

cheerz,
Ivo.


From square690410 at yahoo.com.tw  Tue Nov  2 04:47:02 2004
From: square690410 at yahoo.com.tw (Leon)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:47:02 +0800
Subject: How to use Data Structure (such as Tree,link list) by Python?
References: <cm6vco$195$1@netnews.hinet.net> <cm7apa$o2i$1@mail.cn99.com>
	<mailman.5800.1099381942.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cm7l2r$76d$1@netnews.hinet.net>

thanks......
I use list intead tree
use pop() and append()....(Stack)
"Josiah Carlson" <jcarlson at uci.edu> 
???????:mailman.5800.1099381942.5135.python-list at python.org...
>
> "ivy" <ivy at doramail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Python has built-in list and search tree.
>> If you like , you can write it by yourself.
>
> Python does not come with a tree data structure.  It does come with a
> 'dictionary', which is implemented as a hash table.
>
> - Josiah
> 




From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Tue Nov 23 14:42:18 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 19:42:18 GMT
Subject: .pyc files...
References: <E1CTDp7-00050j-00@galvatron.kickingdragon.com>
	<mailman.6343.1100420001.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<x74qjsnj1o.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<slrncpkha7.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
	<x7fz39mrs8.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<slrncpnjq2.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
	<54rop0dgkqb5ing122i0dtrtvotambtfkv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrncq74gs.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 11:44:44 +0200, Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> wrote:
...
> Any particular reason for prefering t?csh over POSIX sh other than
> habit?  I'm asking out of plain curiosity.

Habit. Tcsh was the default interactive shell at Uni many years ago, when
most other shells didn't have TAB completion and didn't know about the arrow
keys. It's also the most common shell in workplaces around here (not
counting EXPLORER.EXE).

Some day soon I will switch to zsh ... or (pathetic attempt to stay ontopic)
/usr/bin/python.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From calmar at calmar.ws  Sun Nov 14 13:26:04 2004
From: calmar at calmar.ws (calmar)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:26:04 +0100
Subject: using python on the command line with 'here-documents' and pipes
References: <slrncpf4ga.1u7.calmar@news.calmar.ws>
	<roy-3BDE3B.13082314112004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <slrncpf8ps.b4m.calmar@news.calmar.ws>

On 2004-11-14, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:

hi,

> $ python -c 'import sys
>> for line in sys.stdin:
>>     print line[:10]
>> 
>> ' << EOF
>> line one of many
>> line two of many
>> line three of many
>> EOF
> line one o
> line two o
> line three

Yeah, that works nicely.

Actually, I didn't find the solution to just press enter (after a -c
'..) and write the idented code I want.

> executable.  Then you've got a stand-alone program that you can edit and 
> maintain apart from the shell script that surrounds it.  In the long 
> run, this is likely to be simpler to test and to maintain.

Yeah, true.


Thanks a lot to all!

-- 
  calmar
          (o_  It rocks: LINUX + Command-Line-Interface
          //\
          V_/_                     http://www.calmar.ws


From seefeld at sympatico.ca  Thu Nov 11 10:18:15 2004
From: seefeld at sympatico.ca (Stefan Seefeld)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:18:15 -0500
Subject: re.compile.match() results in unicode strings - why?
In-Reply-To: <41938e20$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <2vh2mlF2lbkrdU1@uni-berlin.de> <41938e20$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <hpLkd.948$ry5.537@fe51.usenetserver.com>

Scott David Daniels wrote:
> Axel Bock wrote:
> 
>> .... I match a string with
>>     exp = re.compile(blah)
>>     m = exp.match(string)
>>     a,b,c,d = m.groups()
>> now a,b,c,d are all string variables, 
> 
> This shows a misunderstanding.  Python does not have typed variables.

huh ? It is perfectly valid to ask what type a variable has, i.e. python
is 'strongly typed'.

>     a,b,c,d = 'a', 'b', 'c', 'd'
>     a = 4.5
>     b = 3+5j
>     c = u'\N{LATIN CAPITAL LETTER D WITH STROKE}one'
>     d = repr
> is perfectly legal.

indeed. How's this related to the original question ?

Regards,
		Stefan



From mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net  Mon Nov 29 03:10:18 2004
From: mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net (Jean Brouwers)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 08:10:18 GMT
Subject: wxStyledTextCtrl problem ?
References: <pan.2004.11.28.12.10.30.74527@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <291120040011546030%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>



If you are running GTK+ try using

        self.Editor.SetSTCFocus(True)

in addition to or instead of SetFocus().  Plus maybe

        wx.CallAfter(self.Editor.EnsureCaretVisible)

It solved the 'dissapearing caret' problem for our application.


/Jean Brouwers



In article
<pan.2004.11.28.12.10.30.74527 at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>,
Paul Robson <autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> I have a wierd thing with a little editor app I'm writing.
> 
> I'm using wxStyledTextCtrl ; the wrapper for Scintilla. When I create the
> frame in wxPython, I use self.Editor.SetFocus() to put the focus initially
> on the editor.
> 
> This works fine.
> 
> Odd thing is though, switching back and forwards between applications
> alternately hides and reappears the caret.
> 
> Hit Alt-Tab twice and it disappears
> Hit Alt-Tab twice and it comes back.
> 
> It still works fine - there's just no caret. I've tried various things in
> EVT_ACTIVATE including Moving the Caret on screen, and forcing it to be
> visible - they are being called but it makes no difference.
> 
> Any ideas ?
>


From rtilley at vt.edu  Thu Nov  4 20:52:26 2004
From: rtilley at vt.edu (Brad Tilley)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 20:52:26 -0500
Subject: win 2003 server
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5944.1099618801.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cmef57$7si$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<mailman.5944.1099618801.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418ADCDA.6030108@vt.edu>

Tim Peters wrote:

> Windows XP Home Edition
> Windows XP Professional
> Windows XP Media Center Edition
> Windows XP SP2 (several flavors)
> Windows Small Business Server 2003
> Windows Server 2003 Web Edition
> Windows Server 2003 Standard Edition
> Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition
> Windows Server 2003 Datacenter Edition
> Windows Storage Server 2003

Why not put that list on the Python Windows Web site so the suits in IT 
management (who have the final say on things) will be more likely to OK 
Python as a scripting environment on Windows? IMO, it's silly to list 
Windows 95 and not list Windows 2003 server. Why not just shoot yourself 
in the foot?




From hunterp at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 03:32:35 2004
From: hunterp at gmail.com (Hunter  Peress)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 00:32:35 -0800
Subject: global event listeners
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6471.1100672744.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6463.1100656114.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1100671734.647623.206540@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.6471.1100672744.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1100680355.351342.116920@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>


Josiah Carlson wrote:
> "Hunter  Peress" <hunterp at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > i suppose i could do this, and have an "if self.__name__ ==
> > what_im_looking_for and type(self) == what_im_also_looking_for"
> >
> > next is how can i make every object in a given runtime inherit from
> > this class

>
> class counter(object):
>     counter = 0
>     def __init__(self, value):
>         self.__value = value
>
>     def get_v(self):
>         return self.__value
>     def set_v(self, val):
>         self.__value = val
>         counter.counter += 1
>     value = property(get_v, set_v)
>
> >>> a = counter(1)
> >>> b = counter(2)
> >>> a.counter
> 0
> >>> b.counter
> 0
> >>> a.value = 0
> >>> a.counter
> 1
> >>> b.counter
> 1
> >>>
>
>
>  - Josiah

Well yes, but im looking for a non-1:1 way of making every object be a
child of this new class.  i would have to do an insane amount of
regex.... ;-)



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Nov 23 04:37:11 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 09:37:11 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>
Message-ID: <Xns95AA61D98B7D7duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Lenard Lindstrom wrote:

> Actually I believe Microsoft is just trying to keep Visual Basic distinct
> from potential competitors.

Probably not even that. Microsoft are simply grabbing patents for anything 
they think is remotely patentable. The primary reason for doing this is 
probably defensive: if anyone threatens to sue Microsoft for patent 
infringement they can almost certainly find grounds to countersue. This is 
a useful position for Microsoft since they have said that in nearly all 
cases they will indemnify their customers against claims that Microsoft 
software infringes patents.

(see http://news.com.com/Microsoft+to+back+customers+in+infringement+cases/2100-1014_3-5445868.html)

Of course they can then use this stance as an argument against using 'risky' 
non-Microsoft software.



From edreamleo at charter.net  Thu Nov 25 05:23:47 2004
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 04:23:47 -0600
Subject: Restoring Tix menus to system defaults
Message-ID: <jqipd.1093$915.179@fe04.lga>

Tix appears to ruin the highlighting of menu items by default, at least with 
Python 2.3.4 on XP.  That is, changing

root = Tkinter.Tk()

to

root = Tix.Tk()

causes the app not to honor the system default way of highlighting menu 
items.  BTW, I am aware of the discussion in WmDefault.txt.

One can set highlighting by hand as follows:

try:
  import WmDefault
  WmDefault.setup(root)
  WmDefault.addoptions(root,{'activebackground':'DarkBlue','activeforeground':'white'})
except ImportError: [snip]

Alas, this suffers two big problems:

1.  WmDefault will not be on the user's path by default; the import may 
fail.
2.  The code above doesn't restore the system default.

Can someone suggest a better solution?  In particular,

1.  Is there a workaround not using WmDefault?

2.  Are there settings for 'activebackground' and 'activeforeground' that 
restore the system defaults?  Using '' as the color does not work.

Thanks very much.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------- 




From timothy.grant at gmail.com  Wed Nov 10 14:18:50 2004
From: timothy.grant at gmail.com (Timothy Grant)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:18:50 -0800
Subject: ANN: PyQt-Mac installer available
In-Reply-To: <419266F1.8080704@wordtech-software.com>
References: <5Vlkd.1069$yk5.385@fe37.usenetserver.com>
	<mailman.6223.1100110815.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<419266F1.8080704@wordtech-software.com>
Message-ID: <e775286d0411101118d16f5e7@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:07:29 -0500, Kevin Walzer
<sw at wordtech-software.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Timothy Grant wrote:
> |
> 
> | This is a huge blessing! Thank you so much.
> 
> 
> 
> | That said I'm having a bit of difficulty.
> 
> | I believe I followed the instructions correctly including all the
> | symlinks that were suggested. However, I get an error.
> 
> | (timothygrant at bastard%) pythonw
> |                            ~
> | Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11)
> | [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
> | Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 
> |>import qt
> 
> | Traceback (most recent call last):
> |   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> | ImportError: Failure linking new module: libqt-mt.3.dylib: dyld:
> |
> /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/Resources/Python.app/Contents/MacOS/Python
> | can't open library: libqt-mt.3.dylib  (No such file or directory,
> | errno = 2)
> 
> | Any tips?
> 
> | Thank you.
> 
> 
> I took a look and realized that this build doesn't use
> libqt-mt.3.dylib--it is a static build. Try substituting libqt-mt.a and
> libqt-mt.la in the symlinks. If this, or something like it, works, I'll
> ~ update the installation instructions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - --
> Kevin Walzer, PhD
> WordTech Software--Open Source Applications and Packages for OS X
> http://www.wordtech-software.com
> http://www.smallbizmac.com
> http://www.kevin-walzer.com
> mailto:sw at wordtech-software.com
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> 
> iD8DBQFBkmbwJmdQs+6YVcoRApkoAJ9JMqVxMxxCmUfBISX/1/fC25mO0wCfSKMP
> dvHx1gF0HbU/T27COged79E=
> =hpO+
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 

Same error after doing that. Do I need to logout and log back in to
build the library list or something? on linux I'd run ldconfig, but
don't know what the equivalent is on OS/X yet.

-- 
Stand Fast,
    tjg.


From les_ander at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 16 10:44:19 2004
From: les_ander at yahoo.com (les ander)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 07:44:19 -0800
Subject: using python with -c (as a inline execution in shell)
Message-ID: <a2972632.0411160744.d05557c@posting.google.com>

Hi,
in perl one can do all sorts of stuff in a single line form the command shell.
python has the -c option.
it is easy to do stuff like, 
python -c "print 10+20"
etc statements
but suppose I want to read from the stdin (piped) i don't know how to do this since
python -c "from sys import stdin; for x in stdin: print x"

gives a syntax error.

Anyone one know how to do this?
Also, is there is site that talkes about doing this kind of stuff?
the man pages in xterm are pretty sparse and don't say that much
thanks


From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Nov 23 01:10:31 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:10:31 -0800
Subject: Is there a consensus on how to check a polymorphic instance?
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E324527C@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Mike Meng wrote:
> Solution #1 is concluded from 'Text Processing in Python', section
> 1.1.3, `Pythonic Polymorphisim', around there, here is an example he
> provides:
> 
> def toDOM(xml_src = None):
>     from xml.dom import minidom
>     if hasattr(xml_src, 'documentElement'):
>         return xml_src     # it's already a DOM object
>     elif hasattr(xml_src, 'read'):
>         # it is something that knows how to read data
>         return minidom.parseString(xml_src.read())
>     elif type(xml_src) in (StringType, UnicodeType):
>         # it is a filename of an XML document
>         xml = open(xml_src).read()
>         return minidom.parseString(xml)
>     else:
>         raise ValueError, "Must be initialized with " + \
>             "filename, file-like object, or DOM object"
>
> What's your opinion?

My name isn't Dan, but IMO hasattr works fine here. The second case
('read') is in one sense looking before leaping. The only change I would
make would be to replace "type(xml_src) in (StringType, UnicodeType)"
with "isinstance(xml_src, basestring)" in recent versions of Python
(2.2+ I think?). A die-hard no-type-checks-for-me fanatic would probably
write something like:

def toDOM(xml_src = None):
    from xml.dom import minidom
    if hasattr(xml_src, 'documentElement'):
        return xml_src     # it's already a DOM object
    
    if not hasattr(xml_src, 'read'):
        try:
            # it is a filename of an XML document
            xml_src = open(xml_src)
        except (IOError, OSError):
            raise ValueError, "Must be initialized with " + \
                "filename, file-like object, or DOM object"
    
    return minidom.parseString(xml_src.read())

I don't have a problem with either approach.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From russblau at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 10 08:53:51 2004
From: russblau at hotmail.com (Russell Blau)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:53:51 -0500
Subject: Packing list elements into tuples
References: <cmrcqq$rv4$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmreif$rve$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <2vekr1F2karptU1@uni-berlin.de>

"Nickolay Kolev" <nmkolev at uni-bonn.de> wrote in message
news:cmreif$rve$1 at f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de...
> Nickolay Kolev wrote:
>
> I found it in the cookbook:
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/303060
>
> It looks quite cryptic, could anyone give me some pointers at what
> exactly is going on in the function?

The function contains only one significant line, which is:

    return zip(*[lst[i::n] for i in range(n)])

To figure out what it is doing, take it one piece at a time.  Start with a
list:

>>> lst
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12]

Pick how many elements you want in each group:

>>> n=3

Now see what the list comprehension does:

>>> [lst[i::n] for i in range(n)]
[[1, 4, 7, 10], [2, 5, 8, 11], [3, 6, 9, 12]]

So this breaks up the list into three separate lists by taking each n'th
element from the original list, then combines them.  The "n" in lst[i::n]
determines how many elements will be skipped in creating each sub-list.
Unfortunately, this syntax isn't mentioned in the tutorial or the library
reference; you have to dig to find an explanation of it in
http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.4/whatsnew/section-slices.html

Let's store the result of the last step so we can see what the following
step does:

>>> m = [lst[i::n] for i in range(n)]
>>> zip(*m)
[(1, 2, 3), (4, 5, 6), (7, 8, 9), (10, 11, 12)]

The magic function zip() takes a list of sequences as its argument, and
returns a new list that rearranges them.  Imagine the first list (m) as a
two-dimensional table in which each sub-sequence is a row; zip() goes
through the table and returns the columns as the sub-sequences.  See
http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.4/lib/built-in-funcs.html (all the way at the
end).


-- 
I don't actually read my hotmail account, but you can replace hotmail with
excite if you really want to reach me.





From mustafademirhan at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 19:10:34 2004
From: mustafademirhan at gmail.com (Mustafa Demirhan)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 16:10:34 -0800
Subject: thread, threading; how to kill a thread?
References: <m37jokwiqj.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
Message-ID: <560b81a4.0411181610.7ff9291d@posting.google.com>

I had a very similar problem recently and I think finally found a
solution for that.

Let me first tell you that I needed this in a multi-threaded C++
program. Python is embedded into C++. I was able to kill the threads
using the TerminateThread API function of Windows; however this caused
GIL problems. The terminated thread doesn't release the GIL and all
other Python scripts running on different threads enter a deadlock.

So, I looked for a magical function that is called from a thread
(could be the main thread of the application) and this call will fail
another thread. In other words, lets say i have two threads: T1 and T2
- T1 wants to terminate T2. To achieve this, you should use the
PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc function.

In C++, my code is something like this (application specific parts of
the code it removed):

void SetAsyncExc (int nThreadId, PyThreadState * threadState)
{
	try
	{
		PyEval_AcquireLock ();
		PyThreadState_Swap (threadState);
		PyObject * exc = PyString_FromString ("Exit interrupt!");
		//PyObject * exc = PyErr_NewException ("TerminateThread", NULL,
NULL);
		
		int count = PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc (nThreadId, exc);
		if (count > 1) // we're in trouble!
			PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc (nThreadId, NULL);
		
		Py_DECREF (exc);

		PyThreadState_Swap (NULL);
		PyEval_ReleaseLock ();
	}
	catch (...)
	{
#ifdef _DEBUG
		AfxMessageBox (_T ("Exception thrown in CPyManager::SetAsyncExc "));
#endif
	}
	return true;
}

You should be able to convert this code into a Python code easily. I
will leave that up to you ;)

nThreadId is the ID of the thread that you want to terminate (i.e.
thread id of T2). threadState is a pointer to the ThreadState
structure of thread that wants to terminate the target thread (i.e.
thread state of T1). Calling this function will cause an exception to
be thrown in T2 - Please note that i simply created a string as an
exception however instead of a string, a proper exception object
should be created. When the exception is thrown and caught in T2, T2
should simply exit.

I hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Mustafa Demirhan



Jerry Sievers <jerry at jerrysievers.com> wrote in message news:<m37jokwiqj.fsf at prod01.jerrysievers.com>...
> Greetings Pythonists;
> 
> I have limited experience with threaded apps and plenty with old style
> forked heavyweight multi-processing apps.
> 
> Using Python 2.3.3 on a Redhat 7.x machine.
> 
> Wondering if there is a simple way from a main python program to kill
> a running thread?  I see with the 'threading' module the way daemonic
> threads behave when the main program finishes.
> 
> But suppose  we have a simple thread running a function like;
> 
> def timedLoop():
>     while True:
>         time.sleep(10)
>         doSomething()
> 
> All I am trying to do is stop that thread immediatly from the main
> program and it is unclear how to do this.  I see that using
> del(threadObj) on the thread object that's running the loop function
> does nothing.
> 
> Didn't notice anything obvious in the docs like a 'kill' method or
> similar.  I don't necessarily want the main program to exit, just to
> kill one or more threads.
> 
> Locks, conditions, semafores, signals?
> 
> ARG!  For heavens sake, what am I missing?
> 
> Thanks


From NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it  Sat Nov 13 04:36:37 2004
From: NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it (Manlio Perillo)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 09:36:37 GMT
Subject: get element text in DOM?
References: <mailman.6228.1100113797.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <s3lbp093s95onf1tclrvkese1gfoa07m3v@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:11:09 -0200, Juliano Freitas
<jubafre at atlas.ucpel.tche.br> wrote:

>How can i get the text between the <teste> tags??
>
>>>> xml = """<root><teste> texto </teste></root>"""
>>>> from xml.dom import minidom
>>>> document = minidom.parseString(xml)
>>>> document
><xml.dom.minidom.Document instance at 0x4181df0c>
>>>> minidom.getElementsByTagName('teste')
>
>>>> element = document.getElementsByTagName('teste')
>>>> element
>[<DOM Element: teste at 0x418e110c>]
>>>> element[0].nodeType
>1
>


Here is an useful function I have written:

def getText(node, recursive = False):
    """
    Get all the text associated with this node.
    With recursive == True, all text from child nodes is retrieved
    """
    L = ['']
    for n in node.childNodes:
        if n.nodeType in (dom.Node.TEXT_NODE,
dom.Node.CDATA_SECTION_NODE):
            L.append(n.data)
        else:
            if not recursive:
                return None
            L.append( get_text(n) )
                
    return ''.join(L)



>>> print getText(element[0])




Regards   Manlio Perillo


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Fri Nov 19 06:57:29 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:57:29 +0200
Subject: How to sort a list of tuples
References: <1100859769.700610@eng-ser6>
Message-ID: <4inrp0pljoieqr9ebo6jkabfdimmv8v9r8@4ax.com>

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:22:45 +0800, rumours say that Valkyrie
<valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk> might have written:

>I have a list of tuples, and one of the fields in the tuple is score. So how can
>I sort the list by the score?

Python 2.4:

def sort_tuple_list(tuple_list, index_of_score):
    tuple_list.sort(key=operator.itemgetter(index_of_score))

If for example your tuple_list is of the format (v1, score, v3, v4),
then you sort by

sort_tuple_list(tuple_list, 1)

1 is the second item (0 is the first).

actual example:

>>> import operator
>>> tuple_list= [
	('chris', 15),
	('pers6', 3),
	('pers1', 56),
	]
>>> sort_tuple_list(tuple_list, 1)
>>> tuple_list
[('pers6', 3), ('chris', 15), ('pers1', 56)]


-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
"Tssss!" --Brad Pitt as Achilles in unprecedented Ancient Greek


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Nov 19 22:24:48 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:24:48 -0500
Subject: instant messenging
In-Reply-To: <s9und.4018$Qh3.1971@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <s9und.4018$Qh3.1971@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <cnmdgr$sl8$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Lucas Raab wrote:
> Are there any instant messenging programs out there for use in a Python 
> app?? I've heard of Jabber, but never looke into it.

Maybe try Googling for "python instant messenging"?  I note that
in the first page of results there are at least two Python
modules for the Jabber protocol...

-Peter


From EP at zomething.com  Fri Nov  5 11:37:59 2004
From: EP at zomething.com (EP)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:37:59 -0800
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.05.09.23.39.248718@yahoo.com>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<pan.2004.11.05.09.23.39.248718@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041105083759.549411713.EP@zomething.com>

John Doe wrote (posthumously?):

> In this way version 1.0 is all python. v1.1 has 20% C++; v1.2 is 34% 
> C++
> ... until v2.0 is all C++. Each upgrades is faster, but does not 
> introduce
> any new functionality and the risks that new functions imply.
> 
> If you were faithful to this concept, version 3 requires you to use the
> oldest python branch who's functions will not be modified, to start
> development. Could be v1.1 or 1.9. 
> 
> C/C++ is for speed, not development.


Am I the only one to think this works, but makes no sense?

If one is to migrate their Python code to C++, one ends up with C++ code, which is great unless there is that (not so very rare) event where one wants to add new features, address new requirements, etc., etc.  Applications need to evolve.  If the finished code is going to be C++, one might just as well program in C++ from the start instead of aportioning mindshare between the two languages.  Mindshare devoted to thinking in a second language might instead be devoted to thinking about the application.

Python seems to exemplify living code and since good applications have a life of their own, shouldn't the code live as well?

Dipping into C++ for program hotspots seems like good pramaticism, but at the expense of the simplicity and clarity that is otherwise Pythonic.

Fast Python is an answer, a patchwork of programming languages is a work around.


Eric

I won't say that Python needs to be faster, but imagine Python running as fast as C++ without any special tricks and you can envision the opportunities lost due to Python lacking blazing speed.



From theller at python.net  Wed Nov 24 06:17:29 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 12:17:29 +0100
Subject: zip module password
References: <cnt99a$n2n$2@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
	<cntjm6$qc2$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<HUYod.48278$Ni.1673449@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <hdnfv6ly.fsf@python.net>

"Giovanni Bajo" <noway at sorry.com> writes:

> Peter Hansen wrote:
>
>>> Is there a method for add a password to a file created by zip module?
>>
>> This link
>>
> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=305470&aid=698833&group_id=5470
>> suggests that there is no such support in the standard zipfile module
>> yet, but that a patch has been available for some time (but has
>> not yet been accepted).
>
>
> "has not yet been *commented*" or even looked at would be more appropriate. In
> fact, it is no wonder that it is my sole contribution to Python -- I found the
> lack of responsiveness so depressing.

Here's one possible way to push it further:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-October/049495.html

Thomas


From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 23 15:43:01 2004
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:43:01 +0000
Subject: Transfer data from webpage form to database
In-Reply-To: <41a38f13$0$23068$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net>
References: <41a36ab7$0$23056$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net>
	<m33bz05u3p.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
	<41a38f13$0$23068$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net>
Message-ID: <liNod.42476$Z14.17919@news.indigo.ie>

[Pete]
 > [snip]
 > Below is the code from my webpage form:
 >
 > <form action="default.asp" method="post">

You should note that the action attribute of a form must contain the URL 
to which the form variables will be POSTed.

If you are writing a python CGI script, then action="default.asp" is 
almost certainly wrong, unless you have called your python script 
"default.asp".

The URL for your python script is the value that should go in the action 
attribute, like so

<form action="http://mydomain.com/cgi-bin/my_cgi_script.py" method="post">

or you could leave out the server name bit.

<form action="/cgi-bin/my_cgi_script.py" method="post">

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
------------------------------------------------------
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/contact/alan


From theller at python.net  Mon Nov  8 12:03:39 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 18:03:39 +0100
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<tyfekj44shs.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxizh.3rip5na92f0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyfacts4of3.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxn7d.19o8q51jt2gu5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com> <wtww9u4p.fsf@python.net>
	<cmo88k$1ot$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <r7n49st0.fsf@python.net>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> writes:

>> I guess that MSVC uses the same binary layout for C++ objects as for COM
>> objects, so it should be possible.  I don't know if the name mangling
>> rules are documented somewhere.
>
> COM has no binary layout of objects - the whole purpose of COM is to _not_
> access objects by memory location, but instead by interfaces and thus
> functions. Even what you perceive as attributes/properties are set/get
> functions.

Sorry, I simply used the wrong terminus - I meant interfaces, of course.

> Conveniently, COM objects can be wrapped on the fly be the
> python win32 extensions. 

Yes, but only Dispatch interfaces. ctypes is able to wrap native
interfaces by constructing the vtable at runtime, by using a manually
written or generated interface definition.

>  
>> But I have no idea how inline definitions of member functions (I'm not
>> sure that's the correct term - I mean code defined in the header files)
>> should be converted to Python code.
>
> While inlining is an optimization technique that allows for copying method
> code directly into the callee's code, they will still be exposed
> explicitely as function as otherwise even linking between C++ libs won't
> work.

I mean, for example, code like this (from MS' GdiPlusTypes.h):

class CharacterRange
{
public:
    CharacterRange(
        INT first,
        INT length
    ) :
        First   (first),
        Length  (length)
    {}

    CharacterRange() : First(0), Length(0)
    {}

    CharacterRange & operator = (const CharacterRange &rhs)
    {
        First  = rhs.First;
        Length = rhs.Length;
        return *this;
    }

    INT First;
    INT Length;
};

Thomas


From ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 11 17:04:48 2004
From: ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com (R.Marquez)
Date: 11 Nov 2004 14:04:48 -0800
Subject: Tkinter and WCK (was Re: How come wxPython isn't in the
	standard library?)
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2vgfe5F2m8raqU1@uni-berlin.de> <2vgfmeF2m8raqU2@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <8a27e309.0411111404.1b5c2b9c@posting.google.com>

Jon Perez wrote:
> 
> With the tear-off menu function disabled, I bet you won't
> be able to tell a modern Tkinter app from a native Win32
> one in many cases.

Question:  Will a tkInter app change appearance when the user changes
from XP to Classic  Theme (or any other 3rd party theme) accordingly
as wxPython apps do?

Will it use the standard Windows File Open/Save dialogs?

Just wondering, not meaning to be antagonistic.

-Ruben


From theller at python.net  Fri Nov 12 15:08:22 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 21:08:22 +0100
Subject: py2exe DLL Search Path
References: <mailman.6305.1100272595.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oei2u8y1.fsf@python.net>

Manfred Knobloch <m.knobloch at iwm-kmrc.de> writes:

> Is it possible to tell py2exe to create the exe file in a way that
> the resulting exe looks  for python23.dll, _sre.pyd, library.zip, etc...
> in a subdirectory? Something like set_runtime_library_dirs?
>

You simply supply a subdirectory in the zipfile argument, like

setup(...
      zipfile="libdir\\library.zip")

This way the library.zip file as well as all the .pyd extensions will be
in the 'libdir' subdirectory relative to the exe.  python23.dll has to
be in the same directory as the exe, though - to be exact, it has to be
on the PATH that windows uses to find dlls.

Thomas


From exarkun at intarweb.us  Fri Nov 12 15:13:16 2004
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (exarkun at intarweb.us)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:13:16 GMT
Subject: popen help
In-Reply-To: <cn32va$3j1$1@nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <20041112201316.20649.919233193.divmod.quotient.3811@ohm>

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:29:46 -0800, Jason Zheng <jzheng at jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>I'm trying to open a subshell to run some csh commands, and I want to 
> connect the stdout of the subshell to the main stdout:
> 
> sub = Popen4('csh -f')
> sub.tochild.write('source source.me\n')
> sub.tochild.write('runthis\n')
> sub.tochild.close()
> 
> for x in sub.fromchild.readlines():
>    print x
> 

>>> import os, time
>>> for x in iter(os.popen('for x in `seq 3`; do echo $x; sleep 1; done').readline, ''):
...     print time.time(), x,
... 
1100290304.55 1
1100290305.56 2
1100290306.56 3

  The difference is that readline() returns one line whereas readlines() returns all of the lines.  Since you cannot know what all the lines are until you have read all of the data, it cannot return until the child process exits.

  Jp


From anthony at interlink.com.au  Tue Nov 30 07:31:34 2004
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:31:34 +1100
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.4 (final)
Message-ID: <200411302331.43246.anthony@interlink.com.au>

On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I'm
happy to announce the release of Python 2.4.

Python 2.4 is a final, stable release, and we can recommend that Python
users upgrade to this version.

Python 2.4 is the result of almost 18 month's worth of work on top 
of Python 2.3 and represents another stage in the careful evolution 
of Python. New language features have been kept to a minimum, many 
bugs have been fixed and a wide variety of improvements have been made.

Notable changes in Python 2.4 include improvements to the importing of
modules, generator expressions, function decorators, a number of new 
modules (including subprocess, decimal and cookielib) and countless 
numbers of fixed bugs and smaller enhancements. For more, see the 
(subjective) highlights, the release notes, or Andrew Kuchling's What's 
New In Python, all available from the 2.4 web page.

    http://www.python.org/2.4/

Please log any problems you have with this release in the SourceForge
bug tracker (noting that you're using Python 2.4):

    http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?group_id=5470

Enjoy the new (stable!) release,
Anthony

Anthony Baxter
anthony at python.org
Python Release Manager
(on behalf of the entire python-dev team)
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From renee0102 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 16 15:57:43 2004
From: renee0102 at yahoo.com (99%SugarFree)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:57:43 -0800
Subject: why python?
Message-ID: <cndpgm$s82$1@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca>

Hi,there
I've just known about Python language recently for a research project.
I'm just wondering what kind of applications out there using Python??
Where can I find more information about  the philosophical, technical and
design features of Python??

For those of you who used Python, have you used Prolog or ML??What do u
think of these 3 language comparing to each other when you are coding?

Thanks for dropping by..

Nee






From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Nov 30 13:18:59 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:18:59 -0800
Subject: Few things
In-Reply-To: <5c882bb5.0411300140.6ebd9d17@posting.google.com>
References: <41a756c6$0$25782$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
	<5c882bb5.0411300140.6ebd9d17@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041130091953.FA6E.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile) wrote:
> 
> Thank you for the comments and answers, and sorry for my answering
> delay...
> 
> Josiah Carlson:
> 
> >Decorators can do this without additional syntax. Think @accepts and
> @returns.<
> 
> The purpose of those pre-post is to write something simile and very
> *clean* that states what inputs and outputs must be. This is an
> example of a pre-post conditional for a sorting function taken from
> that site (all this is inside the docstring of the function):
> 
> pre:
>     # must be a list
>     isinstance(a, list)
> 
>     # all elements must be comparable with all other items
>     forall(range(len(a)),
>            lambda i: forall(range(len(a)),
>                             lambda j: (a[i] < a[j]) ^ (a[i] >= a[j])))
> 
> post[a]:
>     # length of array is unchanged
>     len(a) == len(__old__.a)
> 
>     # all elements given are still in the array
>     forall(__old__.a, lambda e: __old__.a.count(e) == a.count(e))
> 
>     # the array is sorted
>     forall([a[i] >= a[i-1] for i in range(1, len(a))])

That is simple and clean?  In my opinion, if one wants to write such
complicated pre and post conditions, one should have to write the pre
and post condition functions that would do the test, and either use
decorators, or use calls within the function to do the tests.  That is
the way it is done now, and I personally don't see a good reason to make
a change.  Then again, I document and test, and haven't used pre/post
conditions in 5+ years.


> Surely such things can be passed (at least as strings) to the @accepts
> and @returns decorators (using a "decorate" identifier instead of @ is
> probably nicer, because the @ makes Python look more like Perl, but
> I've seen that lots of people have already discussed such topic). Such
> testing performed by such decorators can be "switched off" with a
> global boolean flag when the program is debugged and tested.
> So now someone can write and let standardise a couple of good @accepts
> and @returns decorators/functors :-]

Discussion of the @ decorator syntax is a moot point.  Python 2.4 final
was released within the last couple days and uses @, which Guido has
decided is the way it will be.  You are around 6 months too late to have
anything to say about what syntax is better or worse.  It is done.


> >Having a 'faq' for permutation and combination generation would be
> 99% of the way there.<
> 
> Uh, I'm sorry, but I don't understand :-]
> Aren't such functions quite well defined?

Think of it like an 'example' in the documentation, where the code is
provided for doing both permutations and combinations.  There exists a
FAQ for Python that addresses all sorts of "why does Python do A and not
B" questions.  Regardless, both are offered in the Python cookbook.


> >[Fixed] Quickselect, really, doesn't gain you a whole lot. Sure, it's
> a log factor faster to select a median, but many algorithms involving
> selecting medians (at least the ones that I run into in CS theory) end
> up repeatedly (logn times) selecting the 'kth' smallest element
> (varying k's), where sorting would actually run slightly faster.<
> 
> I've done some tests with a Quickselect that I have essentially
> translated and adapted to pure Python from "Numerical Recipes" (it
> seems a bit faster than the Quickselect coded by Raymond Hettinger
> that can be seen in the cookbook). I have seen that on my PC, on
> random sequence of FP numbers, a *single* Quickselect (to find just
> the median) is faster than the standard sort for lists longer than
> about 3 million elements. So it's often useless.
> But using Psyco, that Quickselect becomes 5-6 times faster (for long
> lists), so it beats the (good) standard Sort for lists longer than
> 600-3000 elements. If the Quickselect works in place (as the sort)
> then it returns a partially ordered list, and you can use it to
> quickly select other positions (so for close positions, like the
> computing of the two central values for the median, the complexity of
> the second select is nearly a constant time).
> So coding the Quickselect in C/Pyrex can probably make it useful.
> If you are interested I can give the Python Quickselect code, etc.

No thank you, I have my own.


> Nick Coghlan>I believe the OP was objecting to the spelling of "this
> integer literal is hex" and "this integer literal is octal".<
> 
> Right.
> 
> 
> Josiah Carlson>Regardless, I also don't believe the "I don't like
> this" without "this is the way it should be" will result in anything.<
> 
> You are right, I was mostly afraid of saying silly things... Here is:
> Such syntax can be like:
> number<Separator><Base>
> 
> (Putting <Base><Separator> at the beginning of the number is probably
> worse and it goes against normal base representation in mathematics,
> where you often subscript the base number).
> 
> <Separator> cannot be "B" or "b" (that stands for "base") because
> number can be a Hex containing B too... So <Separator> can be "_"
> (this is the Subscript in TeX markup, so this agrees with normal
> representation of the base)
> 
> <Base> can be:
> 1)just an integer number representing the base (similar to the second
> parameter of "int", this also allows to specify any base).
> 2) a symbol to represent a smaller class of possibilities, like 0=2,
> 1=8, 2=10, 3=16, 4=64. Instead
> of such digits a letter can be used: a=2, b=8, c=10, etc.
> I think the first option is better.
> 
> So integer numbers can be written like:
> 1010100111011_2
> 154545_10
> 777_8
> afa35a_16
> Fi3pK_64

Ick.  In Python, the language is generally read left to right, in a
similar fashion to english.  The prefix notation of 0<octal> and 0x<hex>,
in my opinion, reads better than your postfix-with-punctuation notation.

I'll also mention that two of your examples; afa35a_16 and Fi3pK_64, are
valid python variable names through all of the Python versions I have
access to, so are ambiguous if you want to represent 'integer literals',
which have historically been 'unquoted strings prefixed with a number'.

Furthermore, there /is/ already a postfix notation for representing
integers, though it doesn't support all bases at the moment, requires
a bit more punctuation, and is runtime-evaluated:

>>> int('1010', 2)
10
>>> int('1010100111011',2)
5435
>>> int('154545',10)
154545
>>> int('777',8)
511
>>> int('afa35a',16)
11510618
>>> int('Fi3pK',64)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ValueError: int() base must be >= 2 and <= 36
>>>


Your second option (replacing the _2, _10, etc., with _1, _2, ...) is,
in my opinion, shit.  You take something that is unambiguous (base
representation) and make it ambiguous through the use of a numbering of
a set of 'standard' bases.  What is the use of representing base 10 as a
'2' or 'c'?  I cannot think of a good reason to do so, unless being
almost unreadable is desireable.


An option if you want to get all of the base representations available
is a prefix notation that is similar to what already exists.  I'm not
advocating it (because I also think its crap), but the following fixes
the problems with your postfix notation, and is explicit about bases.
0<base>_<number>
like:
016_feff
02_10010010101
010_9329765872
08_767

The above syntax is:
1. unambiguous
2. readable from left-to-right

Note that I think that the syntax that I just provided is ugly.  I much
prefer just using decimal and offering the proper base notation
afterwards in a comment...

val = 15 # 1111 in binary
val = 35 # 0x23 in hex
val = 17 # 021  in octal


 - Josiah



From m.knobloch at iwm-kmrc.de  Fri Nov 12 10:20:14 2004
From: m.knobloch at iwm-kmrc.de (Manfred Knobloch)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:20:14 +0100
Subject: py2exe DLL Search Path
Message-ID: <4194D4AE.7040808@iwm-kmrc.de>

Is it possible to tell py2exe to create the exe file in a way that
the resulting exe looks  for python23.dll, _sre.pyd, library.zip, etc...
in a subdirectory? Something like set_runtime_library_dirs?

thanx in advance

M.Knobloch
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From autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Nov 30 15:33:25 2004
From: autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Robson)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:33:25 +0000
Subject: weird behaviour of "0 in [] is False"
References: <pan.2004.11.30.12.57.59.582543@nospam.logilab.fr>
	<coi1hc$9go$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<10qpm2qpsphal6e@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <coiljc$sbl$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>

John Roth wrote:

> It's not an error. As one of the first responders said, check
> the language definition. That defines both 'in' and 'is'
> as equality operators, and defines exactly what a chain
> of equality operators means.
> 
> In this case, it means:
> 
> (0 in l) and (l is False)
> 
> The and short circuits, giving the result of False without
> ever doing the final comparison.
> 
> Granted, that's not exactly obvious...

Thanks ; you learn something every day :)



From antonmuhin at rambler.ru  Tue Nov 30 13:44:23 2004
From: antonmuhin at rambler.ru (anton muhin)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:44:23 +0300
Subject: Syntax for extracting multiple items from a dictionary
In-Reply-To: <cohvj3$m4g$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
References: <TuednaLvv_626THcRVn-hA@rcn.net>
	<cohvj3$m4g$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <313tc8F34ln9sU1@uni-berlin.de>

Stefan Behnel wrote:
> 
> 
> shark schrieb:
> 
>> row = {"fname" : "Frank", "lname" : "Jones", "city" : "Hoboken", 
>> "state" :
>> "Alaska"}
>> cols = ("city", "state")
>>
>> Is there a best-practices way to ask for an object containing only the 
>> keys
>> named in cols out of row? In other words, to get this:
>> {"city" : "Hoboken", "state" : "Alaska"}
> 
> 
> Untested:
> 
> dict( (key,value) for (key,value) in row.iteritems() if key in cols )
> 
> Works in Py2.4
> 
> Stefan

Or dict((key, row[key]) for key in cols).

regards,
anton.


From rowen at cesmail.net  Tue Nov 16 19:44:30 2004
From: rowen at cesmail.net (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:44:30 -0800
Subject: trouble with urllib and ftps
Message-ID: <rowen-3178F9.16442916112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

I'm finding that urllib reliably fails for me for ftp as follows
(Python bug report 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=1067702&group_id=5470&at
id=105470>)

- Start more than 1 transfer, each in its own thread
 - Let those finish
 - Again start more than 1 transfer, each in its own thread
 One of the latter xfers will fail with:
 [Errno ftp error] 200 Type set to A

 Notes:
 - I have seen the problem on more than one ftp server, using 
 different sets of sample files.
 - An explicit ";type=i" suffix on binary file URLs does not help. I 
have not tried text files with explicit "type=a".

A preliminary test with ftplib suggests it does not have this problem. 
Barring better suggestions I'll convert my code (thereby giving up the 
ability to download arbitrary kinds of URLs, but gaining the ability to 
ftp more than one file at a time).

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else had seen this and could suggest 
some easy workaround. I can't use urllib2 because I need to support 
usernames and passwords for ftp.

Regards,

-- Russell


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Mon Nov 15 11:02:37 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 08:02:37 -0800
Subject: .pyc files...
References: <E1CTDp7-00050j-00@galvatron.kickingdragon.com>
	<mailman.6343.1100420001.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<x74qjsnj1o.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0411150802.6d58b5bb@posting.google.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message news:<x74qjsnj1o.fsf at guru.mired.org>...
> "Simon John" <simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk> writes:
> 
> > Stephen Waterbury wrote:
> >
> >> > OK, stupid question, but it's been bothering me for ages.. J
> >> >
> >> > I love Python to bits, but .pyc files always litter my source tree,
>  and
> >> > they've always bothered me. ...
>  
> >> One solution (on unices, at least):
> >>
> >> alias cleanpy="find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm {} ';'"
> > or with backticks:  rm -rf `find . -name '*.pyc'`
> 
> Better with $(: rm -rf $(find . -name '*.pyc').
> 
>        <mike


The great thing about python is that you can knock up an infinitely
customizable script to do this sort of thing in about 1 minute flat.
Cross platform and crunchy............

Regards,


Fuzzy
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From jfabiani at yolo.com  Tue Nov 23 19:55:39 2004
From: jfabiani at yolo.com (John Fabiani)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 00:55:39 GMT
Subject: Nagging problem with MySQLdb
References: <cnrffo$c4s$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <f_Qod.25797$6q2.8676@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>

Phillip wrote:

> Hi.
> I hate the way one has to jump through countless hoops to put data in a
> db and get it out again. The straightforward MySQLdb Interface
> requireing this SQL stuff being a point in case (against SQL and those
> RDBs that is). Since other programms have to access this data I'm forced
> to use a classical DB and actually have managed to set up Mysql and a
> presumably working connection from Python to it.
> 
> I've gotten so far as to avoid errors with this sucky SQL language.
> (Guess I've gotten to pampered by Python lately :-) )
> 
> However, for about 20 hrs. now I've been trying to write data into an
> existing table. Until now no success. I hope somebody can help me with
> this. Here's the relevant code:
> 
>  >>>>>>
> ...
> #Setting up DB connection, initializing DB cursor
> elefantDb = MySQLdb.connect(user="runbase",db="elefant")
> baseFeed = elefantDb.cursor()
> 
> # going through the DictList and adding the
> # datasets into the db
> for line in sourceLinesDictList:
> # also adding some data for fields that the DB table has but our
> # DictList does't (data01,02,29)
> data01 = 'source-one'
> data02 = '0',
> data03 = line['payments-status'],
> data04 = line['order-id'],
> data05 = line['order-item-id'],
> data06 = line['payments-date'],
> data07 = line['payments-t-id'],
> data08 = line['item-name'],
> data09 = line['listing-id'],
> data10 = line['sku'],
> data11 = float(line['price'].replace(',','.',1)),
> data12 = float(line['shipping-fee'].replace(',','.',1)),
> data13 = line['quantity-purchased'],
> data14 = float(line['total-price'].replace(',','.',1)),
> data15 = line['purchase-date'],
> data16 = int(line['batch-id']),
> data17 = line['buyer-email'],
> data18 = line['buyer-name'],
> data19 = line['recipient-name'],
> data20 = line['ship-address-1'],
> data21 = line['ship-address-2'],
> data22 = line['ship-city'],
> data23 = line['ship-state'],
> data24 = int(line['ship-zip']),
> data25 = line['ship-country'],
> data26 = line['special-comments'],
> data27 = line['upc'],
> data28 = float(line['VAT'].replace(',','.',1)),
> data29 = 'fresh-unassigned'
> 
> baseFeed.execute(
> """INSERT INTO position
> (plattform,
> position_id,
> payments-status,
> order-id,
> order-item-id,
> payments-date,
> payments-t-id,
> item-name,
> listing-id,
> sku,
> price,
> shipping-fee,
> quantity-purchased,
> total-price,
> purchase-date,
> batch-id,
> buyer-email,
> buyer-name,
> recipient-name,
> ship-address-1,
> ship-address-2,
> ship-city,
> ship-state,
> ship-zip,
> ship-country,
> special-comments,
> upc,
> vat,
> elefant-signal)
> VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s,
> %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s);"""
> [data01, data02, data03, data04, data05, data06, data07, data08,
> data09, data10, data11, data12, data13, data14, data15, data16, data17,
> data18, data19, data20, data21, data22, data23, data24, data25, data26,
> data27, data28, data29]
> )
> <<<<<<
> 
> The error I get with this one is:
> "TypeError: string indices must be integers"
> 
> The other wariant I've tried (using a tuple) with
>  >>>>>>
> ...# the same stuff as above and:
> (data01, data02, data03, data04, data05, data06, data07, data08, data09,
> data10, data11, data12, data13, data14, data15, data16, data17, data18,
> data19, data20, data21, data22, data23, data24, data25, data26, data27,
> data28, data29)
> <<<<<<
> 
> returns:
> "TypeError: 'str' object is not callable"
> 
> baseFeed.execute() function causing these errors.
> I'm totaly void of possible answers now. The problem apparently also
> being scarce and false MySQL and MySQLdb documentation *shrug*.
> Can anyone help?
> Thanks a lot in advance.
> 
> Phillip

One issue 
it should be "insert into table (sum fields) values (%s...), % vars"

I'm a newbie too so I might be wrong.
John


From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Sun Nov 21 11:44:36 2004
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:44:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: looking for a good introduction to OOP
References: <MPG.1c005cd4c4025381989685@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <leh1q0po41gkt08uflm1r3i9gnm50ol7n5@4ax.com>

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 18:03:34 -0500, Darren Dale
<dd55 at cornell.edu> wrote:
> I would like to learn more about object oriented concepts, like design 
> and techniques. I have experience with Matlab and Python, a little with 

My personal favourites are Timothy Budd's book which uses several
languages to illustrate concepts - I personally like to see how
different languages do things. Translating those examples back to
Python would be instructive too.

Also Grady Booch's (now ancient!) OO A&D book is worth a read
(again I prefer the multi lingual first edition, but 
the C++ only 2nd edition is OK.) This gives you some different
application types and sizes to consider how OOP works. This is
effective because often the real value of OOOP is most apparent
on larger scale projects.

Finally Cetus-Links is a great web resource for OOP sites.

Alan G.
Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld


From just at xs4all.nl  Thu Nov 11 04:46:12 2004
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:46:12 +0100
Subject: Iterating over PDF documents
References: <cmv9j2$et5$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <just-88A7ED.10461211112004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <cmv9j2$et5$1 at swifty.westend.com>,
 Peter Maas <peter at somewhere.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to edit a PDF document line-wise. This is more difficult
> than I thought, because PDF uses a mixture of all line terminators
> available in *X, Mac and Win so that utilizing "for line in file"
> is difficult. I tried universal newline but that spoils the document
> apparently. What other options do I have besides writing my own PDF
> line iterator?. All options have to be quick hacks as I have already
> invested some time in existing code and the deadline is approaching
> fast :)

try this:

   for line in open(path, "U"):  # universal newline mode
      ...

Just


From mwm at mired.org  Wed Nov 17 15:49:25 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:49:25 -0600
Subject: psSerial: how to write a single byte value to the serial port?
References: <5a050156.0411170057.6c27a6a4@posting.google.com>
	<419b2f5f.282498301@news.oz.net>
	<5a050156.0411171153.6f04b454@posting.google.com>
	<cngalv$t5j$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <x7brdwmca2.fsf@guru.mired.org>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> writes:

>> I assume the string print ser.write() will append null characters to the
>> end.
>
> Why do you assume that? Its not said anywhere, and its wrong. A string
> consists only of the characters you can "see" - if python usues C
> convention for 0-termination or othear means is an implementation detail
> none of your concern.

Actually, it is of my concern. I need to know whether I can put null
bytes in a string or not. If Python used the C convention, I
couldn't. Since it doesn't, I can.

          <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov  5 15:48:08 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:48:08 -0500
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <cmgotv$k3p$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Maurice LING" <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote in message 
news:418b166f$1 at news.unimelb.edu.au...
> This may be a dumb thing to ask, but besides the penalty for dynamic 
> typing, is there any other real reasons that Python is slower than Java?

To the extent that this is true, development money, though it is sometimes 
amazing what unpaid or semi-paid volunteers have done with Python.

Terry J. Reedy
\ 





From craig at postnewspapers.com.au  Mon Nov 22 12:22:02 2004
From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 01:22:02 +0800
Subject: Wrapping a C library in Python
In-Reply-To: <bfh972-7o1.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <roy-99F088.20103518112004@reader1.panix.com>
	<e253918f.0411190823.25921d6b@posting.google.com>
	<roy-2665D7.13444420112004@reader1.panix.com> <hdnip9ey.fsf@python.net>
	<roy-24C5BE.07565522112004@reader1.panix.com>
	<bfh972-7o1.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <1101144121.31486.1.camel@rasputin.localnet>

On Tue, 2004-11-23 at 00:33, Roger Binns wrote:

> In many cases Swig can parse your header files and build the
> correct wrapper.  The huge advantage of Swig is that you can
> use it to generate wrappers for a large number of languages.
> That comes in really helpful if you will also need wrappers for
> Java, TCL etc.

Just out of interest, do you know if SWIG can be used to generate an
extension module to provide interfaces to the API of an application that
embeds a Python interpreter?

(Still trying to get Py_NewInterpreter / Py_EndInterpreter to work in a
single-threaded app)

--
Craig Ringer



From ask_me_for_it at and_I_might_tell.you  Mon Nov  1 07:51:53 2004
From: ask_me_for_it at and_I_might_tell.you (Supply and Demand)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 13:51:53 +0100
Subject: Use this important update for Windows
In-Reply-To: <c8sunr$sgu$1@green.tninet.se>
References: <c8sunr$sgu$1@green.tninet.se>
Message-ID: <cm5bil$b53$1@news.island.liu.se>

Yepp, I did that and, now, my computer works fantastic!

What a miracle!

OEMCOMPUTER wrote:
>   /* Microsoft <http://www.microsoft.com/> */ 	  All Products 
> <http://www.microsoft.com/catalog/> |  Support 
> <http://support.microsoft.com/> |  Search 
> <http://search.microsoft.com/> |  Microsoft.com Guide 
> <http://www.microsoft.com/> 
> * Microsoft Home <http://www.microsoft.com/>  *
> 
>  
> 
> Microsoft Customer
> 
> this is the latest version of security update, the "May 2004, Cumulative 
> Patch" update which fixes all known security vulnerabilities affecting 
> MS Internet Explorer, MS Outlook and MS Outlook Express as well as three 
> newly discovered vulnerabilities. Install now to continue keeping your 
> computer secure from these vulnerabilities, the most serious of which 
> could allow an malicious user to run executable on your computer. This 
> update includes the functionality of all previously released patches.
> 
> 
> 
> * System requirements* 	Windows 95/98/Me/2000/NT/XP
> * This update applies to* 	MS Internet Explorer, version 4.01 and later
> MS Outlook, version 8.00 and later
> MS Outlook Express, version 4.01 and later
> * Recommendation* 	Customers should install the patch at the earliest 
> opportunity.
> * How to install* 	Run attached file. Choose Yes on displayed dialog box.
> * How to use* 	You don't need to do anything after installing this item.
> 
> 
> Microsoft Product Support Services and Knowledge Base articles can be 
> found on the Microsoft Technical Support <http://support.microsoft.com/> 
> web site. For security-related information about Microsoft products, 
> please visit the Microsoft Security Advisor 
> <http://www.microsoft.com/security> web site, or Contact Us. 
> <http://www.microsoft.com/contactus/contactus.asp>
> 
> Thank you for using Microsoft products.
> 
> Please do not reply to this message. It was sent from an unmonitored 
> e-mail address and we are unable to respond to any replies.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The names of the actual companies and products mentioned herein are the 
> trademarks of their respective owners.
> 
> 
> 	* Contact Us <http://www.microsoft.com/contactus/contactus.asp>  |  
> Legal <http://www.microsoft.com/legal/>  |  TRUSTe 
> <https://www.truste.org/validate/605> *
> 	?2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Terms of Use 
> <http://www.microsoft.com/info/cpyright.htm>  |  Privacy Statement 
> <http://www.microsoft.com/info/privacy.htm> |  Accessibility 
> <http://www.microsoft.com/enable/>
> 


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Wed Nov 10 15:00:33 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:00:33 -0500
Subject: Announce: csv_xs.py
In-Reply-To: <BDB81C1E.1C8E%cme@lampcoders.net>
References: <BDB81C1E.1C8E%cme@lampcoders.net>
Message-ID: <AJ-dnX4xUIX97g_cRVn-sQ@giganews.com>

Christian Meissner wrote:

> I had developed my own csv class which is inspired by perls csv_xs module.

What you do is not csv parsing!

You are just splitting the rows by
the separator character (a triviality).
But this character may be inside the field
enclosed within quotation characters.


Istvan.


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 29 18:44:54 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 23:44:54 GMT
Subject: slicing, mapping types, ellipsis etc.
References: <m34qj8e5yd.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
	<opsh9fobad1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
	<m3y8gkcorz.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
Message-ID: <41aba73e.1361761169@news.oz.net>

On 29 Nov 2004 16:45:52 -0500, Jerry Sievers <jerry at jerrysievers.com> wrote:

>"Caleb Hattingh" <caleb1 at telkomsa.net> writes:
>
>> I'm going to assume the following is self-explanatory - type the commands  
>> in yourself.
>
>[snip]
>
>Yes, it certainly is self-explanatory.  And, I appreciate your
>response.
>
>However, my question pertains to advanced use of the slicing features
>which I have found to be not totally explained in the docs.
>
>The use of [start:stop:step] on sequence types is NOT unclear to me at
>all.
>
>I'd like to know;
>
>1. what the Ellipsis object or ... syntax is used for
>2. what a slice [..., j:k:l] does
>3. how slices are applied to object of mapping types
>
 >>> class C(object):
 ...     def __getitem__(self, i): print i; return None
 ...
 >>> c=C()
 >>> c[1]
 1
 >>> c[1:2]
 slice(1, 2, None)
 >>> c[1:2:3]
 slice(1, 2, 3)
 >>> c[:2:3]
 slice(None, 2, 3)
 >>> c[::3]
 slice(None, None, 3)
 >>> c[::]
 slice(None, None, None)
 >>> c[1,::]
 (1, slice(None, None, None))
 >>> c[1,...,::]
 (1, Ellipsis, slice(None, None, None))
 >>> c[1, 2, ..., 3:4]
 (1, 2, Ellipsis, slice(3, 4, None))
 >>> c[...]
 Ellipsis

An object implementing __getitem__ (and/or __setitem__) will be passed arguments
as above and is free to use them in any way that makes sense to it's author.
Making sense to the users of the author's software is another thing ;-)

AFAIK Ellipsis is just a special builtin object that can be used as a handy
standard place holder in the get/setitem context. But any other builtin
could be passed also, e.g., 

 >>> c[1,2,abs,3]
 (1, 2, <built-in function abs>, 3)

so AFAIK it's just that an Ellipsis reference is generated when you use ... in the
getitem context. The compiler generates a reference to the built-in constant, so
you can make a test for it for your object's logic, e.g.

 >>> class C(object):
 ...     def __getitem__(self, i):
 ...         if i is Ellipsis or isinstance(i, tuple) and Ellipsis in i:
 ...             print 'got ... in the index arg %r'%(i,)
 ...         else:
 ...             print 'did not get ... in the index arg %r'%(i,)
 ...
 >>> c=C()
 >>> c[1,2]
 did not get ... in the index arg (1, 2)
 >>> c[::]
 did not get ... in the index arg slice(None, None, None)
 >>> c[::, ...]
 got ... in the index arg (slice(None, None, None), Ellipsis)
 >>> c[...]
 got ... in the index arg Ellipsis
 >>> c[Ellipsis]
 got ... in the index arg Ellipsis

But interestingly, compare the appearance of Ellipsis in the disassembly
of foo and bar (LOAD_GLOBAL vs LOAD_CONST). The global you can shadow or
rebind, but the const is apparently known by the compiler, and it is arranged
that they both refer to the same object by default, so the 'is' test succeeds.

 >>> class C(object):
 ...     def __getitem__(self, i): return i
 ...     def foo(self): return self[...]
 ...     def bar(self): return self.foo() is Ellipsis
 ...
 >>> c= C()
 >>> c[...] is Ellipsis
 True
 >>> c.foo() is Ellipsis
 True
 >>> c.bar()
 True
 >>> import dis
 >>> dis.dis(C)
 Disassembly of __getitem__:
   2           0 LOAD_FAST                1 (i)
               3 RETURN_VALUE

 Disassembly of bar:
   4           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (self)
               3 LOAD_ATTR                1 (foo)
               6 CALL_FUNCTION            0
               9 LOAD_GLOBAL              2 (Ellipsis)
              12 COMPARE_OP               8 (is)
              15 RETURN_VALUE

 Disassembly of foo:
   3           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (self)
               3 LOAD_CONST               1 (Ellipsis)
               6 BINARY_SUBSCR
               7 RETURN_VALUE

HTH

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From iketo2 at netscape.net  Sun Nov 21 06:23:50 2004
From: iketo2 at netscape.net (Isaac To)
Date: 21 Nov 2004 19:23:50 +0800
Subject: arrays
References: <a2f50cd.0411151042.45487164@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87ekinsawp.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Rahul" == Rahul Garg <codedivine at gmail.com> writes:

    Rahul> Hi.  Is there someway i can get something similar to
    Rahul> multi-dimensional arrays in python.I dont want to use
    Rahul> Numarray.

Is an array of array sufficient?  Thinks like [[0]*5]*3.

Regards,
Isaac.


From jon.roland at constitution.org  Sun Nov 21 11:26:48 2004
From: jon.roland at constitution.org (Jon Roland)
Date: 21 Nov 2004 08:26:48 -0800
Subject: Seek HTML cleanup utilities
Message-ID: <51fe74e4.0411210826.35f22a00@posting.google.com>

I have a number of changes I like to make to HTML files that are not
currently supported by HTML Tidy. Most of them arise from OCR
recognition errors, and many from the ways my OCR program, Finereader,
saves to HTML. I have begun to write stream editing scripts in python,
but wonder whether someone else may have already done so. It would
save me a lot of time to use or modify already-written utilities. I
would appreciate direction to any that are available. Please respond
by email.

Some of the kinds of cleanup I want to be able to do include:

1. Removal of empty tag pairs.

2. Trimming/moving whitespace around tags:
    a. Removal whitespace following a <p> and preceding
a </p>.
    b. Moving whitespace following lead tag to precede
it, preceding end tag to follow it.

3. Moving certain punctuation -- comma, period,
semi-colon, etc. -- outside of certain end tags, such
as </i>, </b>, etc.

4. Removal of certain attributes:
    a. In <font> tag, face="Times New Roman" (or
whatever) so that it will be viewed with default font face.
    b. In <font> tag, size="2" (or whatever) so that it
will ve viewed with default font size.

5. Changing of certain attributes:
    a. In <font> tag, absolute size="4" to relative
size="+1" (or whatever).

6. Changing of certain tags:
    a. <em> to <i>.
    b. <strong> to <b>.

7. Removal of certain tags, such as <p>, from around
all the contents of table cells.

8. For all tables, removal of empty topmost and
bottommost rows, leftmost and rightmost columns.

I could go on, but this provides a sample.

Please visit my website at http://www.constitution.org to see what
kinds of HTML documents I am producing.


From gdamjan at gmail.com  Fri Nov 12 17:41:36 2004
From: gdamjan at gmail.com (Damjan)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 23:41:36 +0100
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <2vksh0F2n2hjoU1@uni-berlin.de>

> I have had a look at the signal module and the example
> and came to the conclusion that the example wont work
> if you try to do this in a thread.
> 
> So is there a chance similar code will work in a thread?

I think acording to the Posix Thread specs, signals are only delevered to
the process and never to threads... I could be wrong though...



-- 
damjan


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  7 04:22:03 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 10:22:03 +0100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<wdWdnZ-fWZxWlBDcRVn-vw@rogers.com>
	<1gmueqr.1hs16lxfjegpuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6038.1099804573.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gmvis9.1p0u31qgoderwN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Maurice LING <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote:
   ...
> 1. I've asked a question which I may be wrong (many people do that)

So how would you react if somebody asked a question that _takes for
granted_ something that you strongly believe is not the case, to the
point of absurdity?  Say somebody posted to a local NG or mailing list
about Melbourne nightlife, asking for explanations of why the bands
playing in Melbourne clubs are so much worse than those playing in
Canberra ones.  No justification of the assertion, as if it was so
obvious it didn't need any, just a request for an explanation.  And say
later the same guy clarified the claim by stating, again without ANY
supporting data, that his criterion is based on bands' records and how
well they place in the hit parades -- and again, not asking _whether_
Melbourne's scene is inferior by that measure, not even stating _that_
it is and inviting rebuttal, but still expressing himself as if this was
so EVIDENTLY the case that an explanation of WHY was all he needed.

To make you more personally involved in the issue, imagine that you had
spent lots of time and energy convincing friends and acquaintances to
move to Melbourne, rather to Canberra, based in some part on how much
better the club music scene is in Melbourne.  And you even had some
little involvement in the past in trying to arrange for some Melbourne
clubs to get in contact with some hitparade-successful bands.

Now, even if you personally care little about hit parades, it seems
sensible for you to review the bidding -- if nothing else, to be able to
qualify future advice to other friends, or, if needed, try to help clubs
and bands get in touch again.

And you can't find *ANY* support for the unquestioned-assumptions, "so
obvious they only need explanation", behind that guy's questions.  As
far as you can tell, Melbourne's clubs have about FOUR times more bands
that place high on the hit parade playing on typical nights than
Canberra clubs do.

So, would you be quiet and let Melbourne's reputation get sullied when
you believe to have data to show that?  Or would you rather relate your
own observations, and challenge the original poster to come out and
*GIVE* those data he was basing his "too obvious to question" underlying
assumptions?!


> 2. Some had answered and pointed out my misconceptions, thank you all
> for that.

Does this imply you now believe that the unquestioned-assumptions behind
your "why" questions were unfounded?

> 3. Some had pointed to the fact that I am from University of Melbourne
> (with unknown motives). It was then clarified that I was an honours 
> student (www.zoology.unimelb.edu.au) in the Dept of Zoology. Perhaps I
> may say that I am a molecular biologist by degree.

I have no idea about [3].  One of my best friends in Australia is in
Melbourne now (Canberra previously).  I do occasionally hear snide jabs
at Melbourne, but those are generally from _Sidney_ people, so I tend to
discount them appropriately;-).

As for your professional specialization, how would it make you feel and
react if somebody posted a question such as, say, "why are the
nucleotides in cats' cells so different from those in dogs'?".  Not a
good parallel, I guess, because in this case the total and utter
cluelessness of the asker and absurdity of the question are entirely
obvious -- you would not need any research to confirm that, nor would
you need to fear anybody else getting misled from this question.  So
please find something slightly subtler, but just as wrong, and focus on
a poster taking the wrong underlying assumption so much for granted that
they only need to ask about WHY things are (obviously, w/o any need for
discussion or confirmation) that way...


> 4. Some had pointed out instances (books and all) whereby my wrong 
> impressions might have been formed.

Forming a wrong impression is always a possibility.  It's proceeding to
take it for granted as an obvious fact, that is quite questionable.  If
you had phrased your observation in terms such as "I have gotten the
impression, without having done any measurement myself, that" etc, the
reactions would have been vastly different; your choice to express
yourself by implying an unquestionable fact existed and only required
explanations of its reasons, is a good part of the reaction's cause.

> 5. Some had painfully taxed on the my initial misconceptions and 
> generalizing it to the ridicule of non-experts, and in the process of
> so, suggesting controversial codes in the pre-text of eliciting responses.

Well I _did_ get responses, which easily led to Python and Java programs
that are strongly equivalent (same buffer sizes, and all), with a 4:1
performance advantage for Python (perhaps explainable by Java's terrible
startup/shutdown performance, with 4:1 ratio of pagefaults to Python's;
pagefaults, of course, _can_ be seen as disk-intensive, too;-).

> 6. Furthering it, using notable words from famous people, to 
> discriminate against a group of people, when the first instance had been
> breached... you can choose not to reply.

Just like you could choose to stay silent, and let some assertions and
implications against the Melbourne club scene stand unchallenged when
you believe you can show those "stated as too obvious to discuss"
implications are totally wrong, ill-founded, and reverse of the truth.

If you let the untruth stand unchallenged, quite apart from the sympathy
for truth that many of us feel, you'd badly serve anybody who,
considering a move to Melbourne in the near future, might "do their
homework", research recent Melbourne/Canberra comparisons, and find that
apparently nobody questions with any real data the "too obvious to
discuss" assumption about bands playing in clubs.  Plus, you'd waste the
effort that weirdly implied assumption prompted you to, in order to
start researching the issue a bit.

If you do post what you have, you serve well anybody who's looking up
the issue in the future, AND get a chance to see what solid data the
original poster based their taken-for-granted assumptions on -- IF ANY.


> All these happens when the discussion had been taken to other areas... I
> brings one to wonder on maturity and character......

_ALL_?  Re [5], I'm still trying to get a good benchmark going -- I
expect to observe roughly 1:1 ratio (net of startup and shutdown) when
that's the case.  Why is that "other areas" wrt your original question
of WHY (things were obviously, undisputably in a state they aren't)?

Are you claiming that, if one asks "why is the sky yellow?", striving to
show him and everybody else that it *ISN'T* is "taking to other areas"
the discussion?!  I entirely disagree.  Phrasing the original question
as a "why" was one issue surely deserving of metadiscussion, but I find
it perfectly appropriate (and a sign of impeccable character and
maturity) to rephrase the question to a better "is it the case that" and
trying to explore that in this enhanced form; including explanations of
one's observations in the matter (e.g., the one about the 4:1 pagefault
ratio that's clearly part of the slowdown of Java wrt Python here).


> All the knowledge in this world are in libraries and now, networked 

False: not all knowledge in the world can be usefully embodied in print
(text, images, even videos and sound recordings actualy).  An important
part of human knowledge is experiential, and only a shadow of that
important part can be captured in libraries, including multimedia ones.

> libraries via internet. Today, almost all high school students in 
> developed countries are versed in internet. And by your argument, it 
> seems that all universities are complete waste of money as all knowledge
> is out there and the tools to access the knowledge is readily available.

Many universities, as a part of their mission, conduct research and
therefore presumably generate new knowledge.  This entirely self-evident
and obvious fact, even by itself, makes your assertion doubly absurd:
"all knowledge is out there" readily implies there is no knowledge to be
added, and "all universities are complete waste of money" similarly
implies no university is generating new knowledge, or what they do
generate is utterly worthless.

Your assertion that "by my argument" (which had never touched anywhere
upon the research role of universities) research is nonexistent, futile,
or entirely worthless, is at the same time absurd and deeply insulting.
If and when I want to criticize university research, I will do so
myself, and I do not AT ALL appreciate this attempt to put words in my
mouth, even though any reader with a 3-digits IQ can see it as the
insulting absurdity it is.

If we stick to the _teaching_ role of universities, the reasons my
arguments imply nothing like you're stating are both more interesting
and subtler.  On one hand, there is the experiential side of knowledge.
By conducting experiments in a laboratory under proper guidance, even
though those experiments are not novel, students acquire knowledge
experientially -- a very different learning mechanism from reading books
and articles, or listening to lectures.  Of course, good high schools
have laboratories etc, too, but in University, at least in scientific
and technical disciplines, the experiential learning process _should_
blossom to a far higher degree (if it doesn't -- if a university skimps
on labs and overwhelms students with just books and lectures -- then
that may well be a valid ground for criticism, _of that particular
university's choice in didactics_, of course, not "of all
universities").  In other disciplines, experiential learning may be less
obvious, but if the university is any good, it will be there.

And then, there is the issue of selection and structuring.  I have
posted about that recently, in a thread asking whether there was a book
about large-scale software development with Python, and you can easily
look it up on google groups.  To summarize: I have lots of materials on
the subject.  I find I'm easily able to organize these materials into
courses and workshops that are specifically aimed at an identified group
of students, with certain backgrounds and interests.  Organizing the
same material into a _book_ is a far harder task, one which I can't take
the time off to undertake at present... which ties back to a _part_ of
the reason why not all knowledge is in books or other printed or
otherwise 'frozen' (recorded, filmed, ...) forms.  A vast majority of
the materials I collected IS out there -- over the years, I've posted a
goodly fraction of it.  But it's generally unselected and unstructured,
making the learning task far more daunting than proper structuring and
selection can potentially make it.

A good university course has selection and structuring, and is
interactive in a way a book can never be, thus potentially making the
s&s more appropriate and effective for the specific individual students
who are taking that course wrt books (or some other well-organized
subset of info from the net).  Of course, if you throw 500 students at a
poor professor, no matter how good he is, his ability to teach a really
good course will be impaired -- smaller classes are MUCH better that way
(another valid criticism of the way many universities are structured).

Usenet does have the interactivity advantage, but normally not the
structuring one, with rare exceptions, and only to some extent the
selection one.  Thus, it can complement rather than substitute for
books, courses, and information search on the raw net.  It has little
experiential value, though not zero -- _some_ of the interaction on it
does work to stimulate and vaguely guide/aim some experiences.


> As mentioned, the discussion is heading else where and my misconceptions
> cleared before your replies. If I've indeed forgotten, my sincere 
> apologies and hereby thank you for your time and efforts.

Thanks, this is appreciated.  I take it then that you do not any longer
opine that on disk-I/O intensive programs Python is self-evidently
slower than Java?

> You still have the right to remain solemn.

Heh, nice.  Well, it's a right I surely exercise far more often than the
more traditional one of remaining silent;-).


Alex


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Nov  7 13:37:52 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 12:37:52 -0600
Subject: remove assert statement (Was: Re: PEP new assert idiom)
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org><7xr7n62t0v.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Lmjjd.2124$Zl2.96@trndny01><7xy8hep325.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.6055.1099832572.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10osqs5al7tii49@news.supernews.com>


"Gerrit" <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote in message 
news:mailman.6055.1099832572.5135.python-list at python.org...
> Paul Rubin wrote:
>> "Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> writes:
>> > Why do you need a statement for this?
>> > IMO, a plain function will do the trick:
>>
>> I do write such functions sometimes, but using a statement is more
>> natural.  That's why the assert statement exists, for example.
>
> I think 'assert' being a statement is on Guido's regrets list. exec and
> print are on his regrets list: both should have been a function. I
> think the same holds for assert, although I'm not sure.
>
>> statement is very great, and I find myself doing it all the time
>> thinking I'll clean it up later.  So I think having a statement for
>> runtime checking would be in the correct spirit.
>
> In my opinion, assert is almost useless. It can sometimes be useful for
> debugging purposes, but beyond that, it isn't. The exception raised by
> 'assert' is always AssertionError. That is a major disadvantage, because
> it's not specific. If a method I'm calling would raise an AssertionError
> is some cases, and I want to catch it, I'm catching too much. Creating a
> new exception-class and raising that one is better because of this.

I see assert as a statement of an invariant: each and every time
I come here this *must* be true. I don't see it as a statement
of wishful thinking: when I come here, this should be true or
I'm going to have problems.

For me, an assert failing is a programing error in the caller,
not in the method with the assert! Trying to catch an
assert is a misuse of what the statement provides.

Besides which, you can always dress up an assert
with a string that can be printed, and then further
stick variables into that string with %.

John Roth




From dsa at unilestemg.br  Wed Nov 10 04:57:29 2004
From: dsa at unilestemg.br (Douglas Soares de Andrade)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:57:29 +0000
Subject: About a python module (iptables)
Message-ID: <200411100957.29615.dsa@unilestemg.br>

Hi !

Is there a module to do the interaction between python and iptables ? I want 
to make a app to interect with iptables (new chain, erase chain, list chain, 
generate rules and so on).

Thanks for any help !

See ya !



From marc at zeroc.com  Tue Nov 30 18:12:14 2004
From: marc at zeroc.com (Marc Laukien)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 18:12:14 -0500
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Ice 2.0 released
In-Reply-To: <d1a33011.0411301437.6b2d0dbb@posting.google.com>
References: <ketod.45140$K7.3294@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<ted8q0h19c4disktejd9ur7pdgec0h1hl0@4ax.com>
	<s7SdnfFRp_kLGjncRVn-1A@speakeasy.net>
	<22868227.0411300634.1d333921@posting.google.com>
	<0YidnREmZ8xECDHcRVn-oA@speakeasy.net>
	<d1a33011.0411301437.6b2d0dbb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <i8SdnUZu1rj6YzHcRVn-vw@speakeasy.net>

apm wrote:

> Marc Laukien <marc at zeroc.com> wrote in message news:<0YidnREmZ8xECDHcRVn-oA at speakeasy.net>...
> 
>>100% of the Ice source code has been developed by ZeroC employees.
> 
> 
> Fixes, bug reports, and enhancement requests have come in from Open
> Source developers around the world, as can be seen from the forums on
> the ZeroC web site.

This is of course correct, but I do not think this is in contradiction 
to what I stated. The submission of a bug report or an enhancement 
request does not constitute development of source code. Neither does the 
submittal of a bug fix, if there is only one way to fix a bug.

-- Marc


From xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net  Tue Nov 16 07:38:45 2004
From: xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 12:38:45 GMT
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<boKdncuh1ZBxbgrcRVn-gA@giganews.com>
	<L0Tld.2114$nj.1155@lakeread01>
	<41985663$0$272$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<ZR1md.4916$nj.2331@lakeread01>
	<4198cc5f$0$258$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.6383.1100535480.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4198e036$0$289$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.6388.1100548469.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns95A38B0C3A56FPaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.78>

Tim Peters <tim.peters at gmail.com> said :

> Ya, I sure agree it's not obvious what to do on Windows!  There have
> been detailed Windows instructions since X3 alpha 1, but subsequent
> release pages didn't point to them.  I see Jim updated the 3.0.0-final
> release page to include them now:
> 
><http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/ZopeX3
><300> 

Huh, thanks for that pointer ! Sure makes a lot more sense that way, and a 
lot less to guess at, even for a developer release :)

If only the lower part of that page had figured in a prominent 
WINDOWS_INSTALL_README.TXT or some such in the Windows installer, there'd 
been much less bitchin' here :-)

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Nov 19 16:38:14 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:38:14 GMT
Subject: generic object - moving toward PEP
Message-ID: <aJtnd.118100$HA.81413@attbi_s01>

So I thought I'd try to summarize a few things here and maybe we can 
move toward filing a PEP.  I'm not really sure I'm the right person to 
champion it because, as I've mentioned, I usually eventually replace 
generic objects with concrete classes, but I'm certainly willing to do 
some of the work writing it up, etc.  If you're interested in helping 
me, let me know (off-list).

Some quotes from this thread:

Hung Jung Lu wrote:
 > It seems odd that there is no standard generic object in Python.

Fernando Perez wrote:
 > IPython has this fairly fancy Struct module, which is yet-another-shot
 > at the same thing.
[snip]
 > But if someone does add a fully functional contribution of this kind,
 > with enough bells and whistles to cover the more advanced cases, I'd
 > be +100 on that :)

Some arguments for a generic object:

(1) Allows a simple syntax for returning named results:

 >>> def f(x):
... 	return bunch(double=2*x, squared=x**2)
...
 >>> y = f(10)
 >>> y.double
20
 >>> y.squared
100

(2) Allows simple representation of hierarchical data:

 >>> x = bunch(a=bunch(b=1, c=10), d=100)
 >>> x.a.b
1
 >>> x.d
100

Note that without a generic object class of some sort this would 
probably be written as something like:

 >>> class C1(object):
... 	def __init__(self, a, d):
... 		self.a, self.d = a, d
... 		
 >>> class C2(object):
... 	def __init__(self, b, c):
... 		self.b, self.c = b, c
... 		
 >>> x = C1(a=C2(b=1, c=10), d=100)

Because the generic object version requires only one class (called 
'bunch' above), only this class would be needed for 
unpickling/unserializing.  If the generic object class was easily 
available (e.g. in the standard library), this could simplify the 
unpickling process somewhat.

(3) Allows simple conversion from dict-style access to attribute access:

 >>> d = {'a':2, 'b':4, 'c':16, 'd':256}
 >>> d['a'], d['d']
(2, 256)
 >>> b = bunch(**d)
 >>> b.a, b.d
(2, 256)

This could actually be supported recursively, if that seems useful:

 >>> d = {'a':2, 'b':4, 'c':{'d':16, 'e':256}}
 >>> b = bunch.frommapping(d)
 >>> b.c.d
16



I think that's most of the arguments I saw on the thread.  If anyone 
else has arguments for/against adding a generic object type to the 
standard lib, now's the time to bring them up. =)

Steve


From mfuhr at fuhr.org  Wed Nov  3 04:30:21 2004
From: mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr)
Date: 3 Nov 2004 02:30:21 -0700
Subject: getting socket.bind() exception, but no actual error
References: <1224a8f9.0411011045.6740c5d8@posting.google.com>
	<RSxhd.2736$931.635@lakeread01>
	<1224a8f9.0411021007.26ec80da@posting.google.com>
	<4187d4fc$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
	<1224a8f9.0411022334.66644d67@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4188a52d_4@omega.dimensional.com>

clarence at silcom.com (Clarence Gardner) writes:

> mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr) wrote in message news:<4187d4fc$1_4 at omega.dimensional.com>...
> ?  Because you get "Address already in use" exceptions due
> > to old connections still being in the TIME_WAIT state?  If so, are
> > you aware that server processes should usually set the SO_REUSEADDR
> > socket option before calling bind()?  Or is there some other reason
> > that bind() fails?
>
> No, that's the only issue. I thought using that option was frowned upon,
> but it's also been a couple of years since I needed to think about such
> things, and I was too lazy to look it up for now.

SO_REUSEADDR is hardly frowned upon -- quite the contrary: it's
recommended.  See for example the socket bible, _UNIX Network
Programming_, Vol 1, by W. Richard Stevens.  On p 207 (2nd edition),
in the summary for the Socket Options chapter, Stevens says:

  The most commonly used options that we might encounter are
  SO_KEEPALIVE, SO_RCVBUF, SO_SNDBUF, and SO_REUSEADDR.  The
  latter should always be set for a TCP server before it calls
  bind.

Earlier in the chapter, on pp 194-197, Stevens discusses SO_REUSEADDR
in detail and says that "_All_ TCP servers should specify this
socket option to allow the server to be restarted in this situation"
(emphasis his; page numbers may differ in the 3rd edition).

-- 
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/


From news-and-lists at the-me.de  Thu Nov 11 10:49:11 2004
From: news-and-lists at the-me.de (Axel Bock)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:49:11 +0100
Subject: re.compile.match() results in unicode strings - why?
In-Reply-To: <41938e20$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <2vh2mlF2lbkrdU1@uni-berlin.de> <41938e20$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <2vhg0nF2le9ecU1@uni-berlin.de>

Scott David Daniels wrote:

> This shows a misunderstanding.  Python does not have typed variables.
>     a,b,c,d = 'a', 'b', 'c', 'd'
>     a = 4.5
>     b = 3+5j
>     c = u'\N{LATIN CAPITAL LETTER D WITH STROKE}one'
>     d = repr
> is perfectly legal.

sure, but that was not the question ... :-)

> The example is not concrete enough to reproduce.  Please give particular
> examples for blah and string.

if you like ...

** CODE **
string = "1. asdf asdf 327,88"
exp = re.compile("(\S+) (\S+) (\S+) (\S+).*")
m = exp.match(string)
print m.groups()
** /CODE **

the question now is (a little bit more precise): m.groups() delievers a list 
(ok, tuple) of string types. in my app they are all unicode, but the same code 
just typed in the shell produces "normal" strings.

now how does that unicode-string-triggering happen? I do definitely not see 
why python feels inclinded to return a unicode thingy here ...

as said - it is of no great importance, but I like to know ... :))


ciao & thanks anyways,

axel.


From greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com  Fri Nov 19 15:26:56 2004
From: greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com (Greg Lindstrom)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:26:56 -0600
Subject: How can I store a result in a Matrix?
Message-ID: <009101c4ce76$1dcb1dd0$054b12ac@D18SYX41>

Here's one way (more to come, I'm sure)


fibs = []
fibs.append(1)
fibs.append(1)

for n in range(10):
  new_fib = fibs[-2] + fibs[-1]
  fibs.append(new_fib)

for n in fibs:
  print n,
print

1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144


Greg Lindstrom                                         (501) 975-4859
NovaSys Health                  greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams"  W.W.




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Nov 16 11:00:11 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:00:11 -0600
Subject: xmlrpclib - error marshalling new-style classes
In-Reply-To: <24053689.1100608423575.JavaMail.www@wwinf0602>
References: <24053689.1100608423575.JavaMail.www@wwinf0602>
Message-ID: <16794.9227.867964.224036@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Gabriel> I'm trying to send object using xmlrpclib, but it seems that
    Gabriel> classes inheriting from object cannot be marshalled. 
    ...
    Gabriel> Am I doing something wrong or is it a bug in xmlrpclib ?

A limitation perhaps.  Can you investigate in xmlrpclib and submit a patch
or at least submit a bug report to SourceForge?

Skip


From michael at stroeder.com  Wed Nov  3 01:35:09 2004
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 07:35:09 +0100
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5848.1099437299.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>	<du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>	<4187b7a1$0$2383$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>	<hu0l52-ml1.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>	<41880b1a$0$19736$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5848.1099437299.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tpam52-vp2.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

Gerhard Haering wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 02, 2004 at 11:41:18PM +0100, bruno modulix wrote:
> 
>><aol>
>>We had some program (can't remember if it was spamassassin or an 
>>antivir, I'm not the sysadmin !-) gone mad and all our customers mails 
>>blocked for a full day because of such a wonderfull update of a perl 
>>module...
>></aol>
> 
> Well, could have happened with a Debian [*] or *BSD, etc. update as well,
> right?

Yes.

Ciao, Michael.


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Thu Nov  4 15:40:30 2004
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 12:40:30 -0800
Subject: How to use sys.stdout
References: <cmclfi$cgm$1@netnews.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0411041240.187e11fd@posting.google.com>

"Leon" <square690410 at yahoo.com.tw> wrote in message news:<cmclfi$cgm$1 at netnews.hinet.net>...
> what does it have properties ?
> what does it have method ?

Have you read the Python Tutorial? If no, stop reading this message
now and read the Tutorial. If yes, what did you not understand about
sections 6.3 and 7.1?


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sun Nov  7 19:55:49 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 16:55:49 -0800
Subject: How come wxPython isn't in the standard library?
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org><aj3u52-a2r.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com><ogjv52-anq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<mailman.6060.1099838610.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m9t262-kmp.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

BJ?rn Lindqvist wrote:
>> Anything that is in stdlib is somewhat constrained to the same
>> release schedule as the core Python.  For example it would have been
>> bad to do the wxPython 2.4 to 2.5 transition during the 2.3 Python
>> series.
>
> I don't understand this argument really and would be happy if someone
> would explain further. Why can't those people who compile the stdlib
> just take whatever the lastest version of wxPython is, and include
> that?

wxPython has chances and enhancements in the API over time.  For example
moving from wxPython 2.4 to 2.5 changed the preferred package naming
scheme, added several new methods for when you want to use point/size
objects, provided a new mechanism for binding to events, several other
enhancements, a whole bunch of deprecations etc.

It is actually quite rare for code using wxPython to support both
version 2.4 and 2.5.

Now if Python 2.3.1 shipped with wxPython 2.4 and Python 2.3.4 shipped
with wxPython 2.5, many people would get upset since their code would
brea/be deprecated in various ways.  The right thing to do would be
for Python 2.3.x to stick with the same version of wxPython.  However
we would come full circle since many projects now only work with wxPython
2.5 (the improvements were well worth it).


>> The other thing I failed to mention is that the wxPython API isn't
>> very Pythonic.
>
>> I haven't used WxPython for a little while, but not long ago (less
>> than a year) it was dreadfully easy to crash a program if even a
>> little mistake happened.
>
> Ok. Those are big problems.

The latter point is extremely rare these days.

> spot in the stdlib yet. However, getting your Python module into the
> standard library must be like winning the Nobel Prize for Python
> module programmers.

Not quite.  It is an indication that your module is of value to many and
that you have a reasonably good implementation.  You also need to
have your rate of change approximately the same as Python.

> written into the stdlib, I would definitely sync my release schedule
> and make my module as pythonic as possible. :) Maybe in the future it
> can be included?

The API being Pythonic has been one of the big debates in the wxPython
community.  wxPython is a wrapper around the C++ wxWidgets library.  The
C++ API is "normal" for the library and is what is documented.  wxPython
is a Python version of that API.  Some people (like me :-) are happy with
that.  It is a normal GUI API and I have no issue reading and using the
docs.  Other people want something that is like all the other Python APIs
they are used to, and Python specific documentation.  The latter is also a
*lot* more work, and although some people have attempted it, there doesn't
seem to be any that have followed through for a long period of time.

Roger




From amk at amk.ca  Tue Nov  2 13:39:31 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 12:39:31 -0600
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
	<du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<4187b7a1$0$2383$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <QtOdnVh_Pq7-SRrcRVn-2g@speakeasy.net>

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 16:36:46 +0000, 
	Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> wrote:
> The real trick is going to be getting the existing module authors to commit to 
> putting their code in your repository in the first place and then making sure 
> your CPyAN tools are part of the standard Python distribution.

No, the trick is going to be implementing something.  Remember, there were
three or four catalog strawmen before Richard Jones wrote PyPI; each of
those was announced on catalog-sig, feedback was requested, and absolutely
no comments were made publicly.  Richard just went ahead and volunteered to
set things up on python.org anyway.

I expect the same results for a PyPAN; someone will post a prototype that
does 30% of what's needed, ask for reactions, and get nothing.  Lots of
people *want* a PyPAN; the number of people willing to work on it is about
zero.

And it should be noted I can already install Python packages with
dependencies by running a command such as "apt-get install
python2.3-gnome2", for example.

--amk


From max at alcyone.com  Sun Nov 21 20:38:40 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:38:40 -0800
Subject: Nagging problem with MySQLdb
In-Reply-To: <cnrffo$c4s$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <cnrffo$c4s$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <nrKdnWTEwpa93jzcRVn-ug@speakeasy.net>

Phillip wrote:

	...
> The other wariant I've tried (using a tuple) with
>  >>>>>>
> ...# the same stuff as above and:
> (data01, data02, data03, data04, data05, data06, data07, data08, data09, 
> data10, data11, data12, data13, data14, data15, data16, data17, data18, 
> data19, data20, data21, data22, data23, data24, data25, data26, data27, 
> data28, data29)
> <<<<<<
> 
> returns:
> "TypeError: 'str' object is not callable"

Right now you're just writing the equivalent of

	"%s is %d years old" (name, age)

which is attempting to call a string like a function.  You meant:

	"%s is %d years old" % (name, age)

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
   Have you fell in love with somebody / Who didn't know
   -- Zhane


From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Tue Nov  9 13:34:18 2004
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 18:34:18 GMT
Subject: Concise idiom to initialize dictionaries
References: <mailman.6164.1100018559.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <K48kd.816$5H4.190@trndny06>

[Frohnhofer, James]
> My initial problem was to initialize a bunch of dictionaries at the start of a
> function.
>
> I did not want to do
> def fn():
> a = {}
> b = {}
> c = {}
> . . .
> z = {}
> simply because it was ugly and wasted screen space.

Use exec().

>>> for c in 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz':
     exec c + ' = {}'


Of course, as others have pointed out, the whole idea is likely misguided and
you would be better served with a list of unnamed dictionaries.


Raymond Hettinger







From manu.1982 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 23:16:30 2004
From: manu.1982 at gmail.com (Manu)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 20:16:30 -0800
Subject: Building a word list from multiple files
References: <c644fe86.0411172344.6d6356d9@posting.google.com>
	<3oqdnVtPVOyFMgHcRVn-rA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <c644fe86.0411182016.59e56f0@posting.google.com>

hi,
> 1) How large are the files you are reading (e.g. can they
> fit in memory)?

The files are email messages.
I will using the the builtin email module to extract only the content
type which is plain text or in html.So no line by line processing is
possible unless
i write my own parser for email.

> 2) Are the words in the file separated with some consistent
> character (e.g. space, tab, csv, etc).

in the case of html mail i only extract the text and strip of the
tags.
Since this is regular text i expect no special seperators and as i
understand split() by default takes any whitespace character as
delimter.This will work fine for my purposes.


> If not, preprocess the files and use shelve to save a
> dictionary that has already been processed.  When you

This is what i was planning to do.Once the processing is done for a
set of files they are never processed again.I was going to store the
dict as a string in a file and then use eval() to get it back.


Thanks
Manu


From syd.diamond at gmail.com  Thu Nov 25 12:31:51 2004
From: syd.diamond at gmail.com (syd)
Date: 25 Nov 2004 09:31:51 -0800
Subject: general class functions
In-Reply-To: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>
References: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1101403911.530187.282650@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Thanks for everyone's help on this thread.  Right now, I've got a
general class ("Container") holding items that can be accessed by item
attribute values through __getattr__ functions.

My various classes use Container as a subclass.  Right now, I keep both
classes  in the same file, and everything works great.  However, when I
move Container to a separate file and "from myClasses import Container"
to use this general class, I seem to lose all of the __getattr__
functionality while retaining the other functions in Container.
Does anyone know why this happens and how I can get around this??



From dickey at saltmine.radix.net  Mon Nov 22 17:28:21 2004
From: dickey at saltmine.radix.net (Thomas Dickey)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:28:21 -0000
Subject: Telnetlib & Term Types
References: <pan.2004.11.19.20.22.27.435671@svha.demon.co.uk>
	<pan.2004.11.20.11.02.21.884637@svha.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <10q4q0595mgb1d7@corp.supernews.com>

Svha <news at svha.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> My bad - omitted the set_debuglevel() output from the above post ...
> Hey it was a Friday afternoon ;)

>>>> tn = telnetlib.Telnet(xxx.xxx.org)
>>>> tn.set_debuglevel(10)
>>>> tn.mt_interact()
> Telnet(xxx.xxx.org,23): recv "\xff\xfd\x18\xff\xfd \xff\xfd#\xff\xfd'"

This is documented in RFC 854, 930, 990, etc,
e.g., www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc854.html

(google "telnet options")

-- 
Thomas E. Dickey
http://invisible-island.net
ftp://invisible-island.net


From faassen at infrae.com  Mon Nov 15 10:15:25 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:15:25 +0100
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <%FUld.2118$nj.1676@lakeread01>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<boKdncuh1ZBxbgrcRVn-gA@giganews.com>
	<L0Tld.2114$nj.1155@lakeread01>
	<pM2dnc8i1JpejAXcRVn-uQ@giganews.com>
	<%FUld.2118$nj.1676@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <4198C80D.4060208@infrae.com>

Steve Holden wrote:
[snip]
> Well indeed, the developers are a bunch of smart cookies (no pun 
> intended). But I still await a comprehensible description of how the 
> whole system works for 2.7, let alone X3 - how to put sites together, 
> and the best way to achieve various results, and so on.

There's a lot of knowledge floating around in the Zope 2 community on 
how to do it with Zope 2.x, but I don't know whether there's a book that 
actually has it written all down, and the website is, as you mention, a 
mess.

The Zope 3 website could use a lot of work as well; it's now rather 
intimidating. I think however that a coherent story about Zope 3 is a 
lot easier to write than a coherent story about Zope 2.x, with all its 
years of evolution of code and changing insights. Zope 3 in a way *is* a 
distillation of what Zope developers have learned from Zope 2.

I think one good community project would be a Zope 3 website project, to 
make the Zope 3 web presence a lot more friendly. Zope 3 is actually 
quite pythonic, and the new component architecture, while doubtless 
intimidating at first, is very powerful while being a lot less likely to 
shoot you in the foot than Zope 2's power is.

Zope 2 has the famous 'Z shaped learning curve'. It starts out really 
eay, then it suddenly gets horribly complicated, you're confused for a 
very long time, until after a long struggle you finally can do stuff 
with it, while still swearing at unpythonic behavior.

Zope 3 has (we hope) a saner learning curve. Zope X3 in particular is 
harder to start out with than Zope 2, as there's no friendly clicke-ty 
click web interface. It takes a bit more programmer investment. It 
should however a easier a lot faster than Zope 2, while remaining a lot 
more Pythonic along the way.

I have personal experience with the Pythonic nature of Zope 3, as I'm 
part of another project (Five) that managed to hack part of its 
functionalities into Zope 2. That wouldn't have been possible if Zope 3 
isn't a more accessible library of Python packages.

Regards,

Martijn


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 16 05:50:55 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:50:55 +0100
Subject: determining the number of output arguments
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6361.1100470915.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cn95k1$bfq$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6371.1100498345.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnb7hi.1hwbltbftm6c1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6392.1100556222.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbg4k.13z20mj1w1o0ysN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnc34a.1h31tyf1qbqr06N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6411.1100593361.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gncdpj.sntegmshfhl2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Fernando Perez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> > Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
> 
> >> But then again, I don't much like extended list slicing (I generally
> >> only use the L[:y], L[x:] and L[x:y]  versions).
> > 
> > It may be that in your specific line of work there is no opportunity or
> > usefulness for the stride argument.  Statistically, however, it's
> 
> Indeed, those of us from the Numeric/numarray side of things rely every
> day on extended slicing, and consider it an absolute necessity for writing
> compact, clean, readable numerical python code.
> 
> It's no surprise that this syntax (as far as I know) originated from the
> needs of the scientific computing community, a group where python is
> picking up users every day.

Definitely no suprise to me -- although I didn't come to Python by way
of scientific programming, I do have a solid background in that field,
and the concept of addressing an array with a stride is very obvious to
me.  Indeed, I was disappointed, early on, that lists didn't support
extended slicing, and very happy when we were able to add it to them.


Alex
 


From Python at IvoNet.nl  Thu Nov 11 12:59:42 2004
From: Python at IvoNet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:59:42 +0100
Subject: Beginner's scoping question
References: <4ef0f3a4.0411101240.21132006@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pg97p0pbb0466gsbllaqugr93tot5qk2uj@4ax.com>

On 10 Nov 2004 12:40:34 -0800, contact at alanlittle.org (Alan Little)
wrote:

>a=1
>b=[]
>class C():
is should be...
class C: # whithout the ()
>   def __init__(self):
>      a=2
>      b.append(3)
>
>c = C()
>
>print b
># [3]
>
># but ...
>print a
># 1
>
>???


a=1
b=[]
class C:
   def __init__(self):
      global a                         # !!!!!!!!!!!
      a=2
      b.append(3)

c = C()

print b
# [3]

# but ...
print a
# 2

a in the class is a local to that class and because it in not assiged
to self.a it is also not normally addressable outside the class
if you want to change the already existing global a you have to
declare it global (see code)

You try to append to a non-existing local variable b.
Python first tries the local() namespace and then the global()
it finds b in the global namespace and appends the value.

cheerz,
Ivo




From eurleif at ecritters.biz  Tue Nov 16 04:40:39 2004
From: eurleif at ecritters.biz (Leif K-Brooks)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 04:40:39 -0500
Subject: save a dictionary in a file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6386.1100544171.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <2vsa8hF2oa58tU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.6386.1100544171.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2vu08sF2onbc5U1@uni-berlin.de>

Mariano Draghi wrote:
> class PersistentDict(dict):
>     '''Persistent dictionary.
> 
>     It's a dictionary that saves and loads its data to a file.
>     '''

Sounds pretty similar to shelve 
(http://python.org/doc/lib/module-shelve.html) to me. Have you 
considered using it instead?


From greg.steffensen at gmail.com  Sun Nov  7 15:07:50 2004
From: greg.steffensen at gmail.com (Greg  Steffensen)
Date: 7 Nov 2004 12:07:50 -0800
Subject: How come wxPython isn't in the standard library?
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<aj3u52-a2r.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<ogjv52-anq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<mailman.6060.1099838610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmli2h$c18$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <1099858070.544710.146320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

wxPython and Tkinter are more portable than PyQT and PyGTK.  Moreover,
wxPython is not just another toolkit... its a set of bindings to a very
active toolkit that also has bindings for C++, Java, Javascript, Perl,
Ruby, Basic, Haskell, .NET and Eiffel, among others.  wxWidgets is
already something of an open-source standard, independent of Python's
relationship.  If wxPython were included in the standard library, it
would become easier for developers to port code from those languages to
Python.  And because wxWidgets is such a large project, Python would be
able to benefit from its progress, providing regular language
improvements with little effort from the Python devs.

As for the size issue, the fact that including wxPython would triple
the size of the size of the standard disto says more about the current
state of the standard distro than it does about wxPython.  If the
Python devs intend to keep the standard distribution at less than 10 mb
forever, then I think world-domination is impossible.  The universal
availability of a modern, portable gui toolkit is a major feature that
languages can provide, and if Python decides to reject this, then it
will lose popularity to other languages that don't.  Assuming that
language penetration is a major motivator for the devs, I think that
wxPython inclusion really is something that we need to start
considering.



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Nov 12 15:15:28 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:15:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: regular expressions and internationalization (WAS: permuting
	letters...)
References: <67lld8kr76.fsf@aster.homelinux.net>	<34Skd.24295$KJ6.17501@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<4195217c$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<mailman.6313.1100288445.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3B8ld.24947$KJ6.15770@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <loom.20041112T210223-77@post.gmane.org>

Andrew Dalke <adalke <at> mindspring.com> writes:
> 
> Steven Bethard wrote:
> > Is there any reason not to use [A-z] type regexps?
> 
> Better support for internationalization, so it will
> work in Espa?a and G?teborg.

Ahh.  That makes sense of course.  Thanks!

I looked again at the re module, and it seems that \w and \W do have
internationalization support... Is there any way to match \w but not \d?  Maybe
something like:
    r'[^\d\W]{4,}'

This seems to work (maybe?):

>>> p = re.compile(r'[^\d\W]{4,}', re.UNICODE)
>>> p.findall(u'?l me compr? un globo. 1234 a342')
[u'compr\xf3', u'globo']

I don't know how to check how this works in different locales though...

Steve



From for_leska at mail15.com  Sun Nov 21 10:07:28 2004
From: for_leska at mail15.com (Leska)
Date: 21 Nov 2004 07:07:28 -0800
Subject: Python23.dll functions
Message-ID: <4ba66934.0411210707.4db94d61@posting.google.com>

Where I can found list of functions, is exported in Python23.dll


From bokr at oz.net  Fri Nov 12 22:30:44 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 03:30:44 GMT
Subject: permuting letters and fairy tales
References: <67lld8kr76.fsf@aster.homelinux.net>
Message-ID: <41957f26.318790786@news.oz.net>

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:31:57 +0100, Johannes Nix <Johannes.Nix at gmx.net> wrote:

>
>Hello,
>
>yesterday I met a cute person (after my dance class) who told me about an
>interesting experiment regarding cognition. People were told to read a
>typed text; However, in every word in the text, only the first and the
>last letter were in the right place. The other letters had their
>positions changed in an arbitrary manner. The surprising result, I was
>told, was that people can read this mixed-up text fairly well.
>
>Because I am a somewhat sceptical guy, at times, and because I thought
>that I deserved some play, I decided to code the rule above in a
>scriptlet. The resulting 23 lines are below, and the outcome is quite
>interesting, not only from the point of view of librarians ;-) :
>
>--------------------------------------------------
>#!/usr/bin/python
>import sys
>import locale
>import string
>import re
>import Numeric
>import RandomArray
>
>locale.setlocale(locale.LC_CTYPE, '')
>wordsep = re.compile('([^%s])' % string.letters)
>
>for line in sys.stdin.xreadlines():
>    for word in wordsep.split(line):
>        if word and word[0] in string.letters:
>            word = string.lower(word)
>            wlen = len(word)
>            if wlen > 3:
>                wa = Numeric.array(word)
>                perm = RandomArray.permutation(wlen-2)
>                wa[1:wlen-1] = Numeric.take(wa[1:wlen-1],perm)
>                word = wa.tostring()
>        sys.stdout.write('%s' % word)
>
>--------------------------------------------------
> 
>
>For the Uninitiated, Numeric is a package which deals with array data;
>arrays are mutable sequences and Numeric.take() can reorder items in
>them; RandomArray.permutation() delivers the randomized reordering we
>need.
>
>Now I have two innocent questions:
>
>- Is it possible to make it a bit more concise ;-))) ?
>
>- Can it coerced to run a little bit faster ?
>  (on my oldish, 300 MHz-AMD K6 , run time looks like this
>  for a famous, 2663-word-long fairy tale from the Grimm's brothers:
>
>  nix at aster:~> time <HaenselundGretel.txt ./python/perlmutt.py  >v
>  
>  real    0m6.970s
>  user    0m3.634s
>  sys     0m0.120s
>  
>
>And two remarks what is interesting about it:
>
>- It's a good example how powerful libraries, like
>  Numeric, make one's life easier. (BTW, why is Numeric 
>  and stuff like take() still not included in the standard
>  Library ? Batteries included, but calculator not ?)
>
>- Perhaps it's useful to protect messages in some
>  regions with not-so-democratic forms of government
>  against automatic scanning by making the message 
>  machine-unreadable, causing some Orwellian Confusion ;-) ?
>  Of course, texts from Pythonistas would remain suspicious,
>  due to the large number of "y" occurring in them....
>
>have a nice evening....
>
Don't know the speed, but this seems fairly self-documenting to me
(with a little thought ;-):

 >>> import random
 >>> def messwith(s):
 ...     seqisalpha = False; seq = []
 ...     for c in s:
 ...         if c.isalpha() == seqisalpha: seq.append(c); continue
 ...         elif seqisalpha and len(seq)>3:
 ...             mid = seq[1:-1]
 ...             random.shuffle(mid)
 ...             seq[1:-1] = mid
 ...         yield ''.join(seq)
 ...         seq = [c]
 ...         seqisalpha = c.isalpha()
 ...     if seq: yield ''.join(seq)
 ...
 >>> def jumble(s): return ''.join(messwith(s))
 ...
 >>> jumble('This is an example. It has 7 words ;-)')
 'This is an elmxape. It has 7 wrods ;-)'

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Fri Nov  5 13:53:21 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 10:53:21 -0800
Subject: How do you execute an OS X application (bundle) from Python?
References: <70bb9f8d.0411040250.1f4ac1a@posting.google.com>
	<69cbbef2.0411041513.120fc039@posting.google.com>
	<1gmrrsj.7ljqd6f3sgkfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0411051053.24b39788@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1gmrrsj.7ljqd6f3sgkfN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...

> > Using os.system to execute open is pretty simple, as other folks have
> > pointed out.
> 
> ...but doesn't do the P_WAIT: just like using open at the Terminal
> prompt, it immediately continues with your code even as TextEdit is
> starting up.  The idea of that snippet is to let the user edit a
> textfile for configuration, while until the user is done editing, then
> read the textfile etc etc.  And it works file on the Mac with vi too.

Ah right, I've got you now. I think you've got a problem in that
case... while the Mac OS is partly Unix that's not the same thing as
actually being Unix (or Windows); what's good for one may not be for
the other. For example, the following seems to work:

os.system('/Applications/TextEdit.app/Contents/MacOS/TextEdit
/Users/has/ReadMe.txt')

However:

1. I've no idea if this sort of thing is formally supported by Apple.

2. It launches a new TextEdit process even if one already exists; a
very unMac-like thing to do. Multiple documents should open under the
same process, and even if the OS doesn't enforce it your users
certainly won't like you doing anything else.

3. It doesn't return until the process quits. Simply closing the text
document - which is when you want it to proceed - won't quit the
process (nor should it, since this is not how Mac applications
operate). This will annoy users even more.


Personally I don't have a huge problem with the Mac's indifference to
this stuff: Mac Is Not Unix after all, and has always had its own ways
of doing things. The upper levels in particular (i.e. where the GUI
apps live) are firmly in the event-driven camp. The bit that ticks me
is that Apple go to all the trouble of creating this big, clever
event-driven environment, but don't think to add a decent system for
third-parties to request and receive notification events when
something of interest occurs elsewhere.

What you really want it to tell TextEdit to open a document in a new
window AND ask that it send you a notification event when that window
is closed. Right now, the only way to do that would be via a
third-party utility that lets you attach scripts to the application's
GUI objects and listen for messages that the app sends to those, but
that's hardly the ideal solution.


Under these circumstances, the usual solution is to poll TextEdit via
its Apple event interface to detect when the document window is no
longer open. It's a bit tedious and rather unelegant, and only viable
for applications that have adequate Apple event interfaces, but in
this case it ought to do the job without any problem, e.g.:

#!/usr/local/bin/pythonw

from appscript import *
from Carbon.File import FSSpec
from time import sleep

te = app('TextEdit.app')
se = app('System Events.app')


path = '/Users/has/ReadMe.txt'

te.open(FSSpec(path))
while (se.application_processes.filter(its.name == 'TextEdit').count()
        and te.documents.filter(its.path == path).count()):
    sleep(1)


HTH


From hunterp at gmail.com  Tue Nov 16 16:01:09 2004
From: hunterp at gmail.com (Hunter  Peress)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 13:01:09 -0800
Subject: global event listeners
Message-ID: <1100638869.786109.237720@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I want to do things directly before an object is changed. eg is there
something like:


a= "hi"

objectChangeListener(a,lambda(previous_value,new_value):\
global_counter.append(previous_value) ; return new_value)



so then this global_counter var will increment whenever a is changed.
PS: im not looking to hear "know your codebase better"



From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Nov 18 08:53:11 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:53:11 +0100
Subject: Python client lib for PostgreSQL8
In-Reply-To: <cni6e4$dl9$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <cni6e4$dl9$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <20041118135311.GA29653@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Thu, Nov 18, 2004 at 01:58:48PM +0100, Peter Maas wrote:
> I just tried to connect to a PostgreSQL8 beta2 database server with
> pyPgSQL 2.4 and got a libpq.DatabaseError telling "Ivalid format for
> PgVersion construction".
> 
> Is there already a PyPgSQL version in CVS or another client library
> that handles PostgreSQL 8?

Oh, I wanted to fix that since some time ago.

Attached is a quick, completely untested try. If it doesn't work like this, you
should get the idea how to make it work ;-)

-- Gerhard
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov  9 21:10:04 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 21:10:04 -0500
Subject: MethodType in python 2.2
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411092019550.25667@er3.rutgers.edu>
Message-ID: <cmrt9i$2fu$1@sea.gmane.org>


"George Sakkis" <gsakkis at eden.rutgers.edu> wrote in message 
news:Pine.GSO.4.58.0411092019550.25667 at er3.rutgers.edu...
> Python 2.2.2 (#1, Jun 25 2003, 18:52:43)
> [GCC 3.3 (SuSE Linux)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import types
>>>> class X:
> ...        def f(self,attr): return getattr(self,attr)
> ...        g = types.MethodType(f,None)
> ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>  File "<stdin>", line 3, in X
> TypeError: cannot create 'instance method' instances

In 2.2, *some* type objects, like int, were turned into callable 
contructors as part of the introduction of new-type classes.

> The same code under 2.4 (and I believe 2.3) runs fine.

When the experiment proved to be a success, additional type objects were 
converted.

> Is it possible to get around this in 2.2 ? Thanks in advance,

Perhaps the new module.  Don't know for sure.

Terry J. Reedy
] 





From unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom  Mon Nov  8 09:12:25 2004
From: unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom (Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non triviale en fuite perpétuelle.)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 15:12:25 +0100
Subject: psycopg, transactions and multiple cursors
References: <cmnqpk$2gh$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
Message-ID: <418f7ef6$0$18496$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Bonjour !
Hi !

Tr?s int?ressante observation.
Very interesting observation.

Mais est-ce bien un probl?me Python ?
But is this well a Python problem?

@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau






From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Nov  6 05:25:10 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 11:25:10 +0100
Subject: Tkinter for system administration?
In-Reply-To: <gO%id.86818$bk1.17025@fed1read05>
References: <gO%id.86818$bk1.17025@fed1read05>
Message-ID: <418ca679$0$578$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Dave Benjamin wrote:
> Is Tkinter pretty common for simple behind-the-scenes admin tools where 
> a GUI is required (for instance, data entry tools for non-programmers) 
> or has everybody moved on to wx/GTK/QT/etc.?

Yes. It has the advantage that it is typically available when Python
and X11 are both available.

> For simple tools, is there any 
> reason to switch to one of the more popular GUI frameworks?

No.

Regards,
Martin


From alban.minassian at wanadoo.fr  Thu Nov  4 02:35:37 2004
From: alban.minassian at wanadoo.fr (alban.minassian at wanadoo.fr)
Date: 3 Nov 2004 23:35:37 -0800
Subject: SystemError: com_backpatch: offset too large
Message-ID: <781f5e76.0411032335.57bf5ae4@posting.google.com>

(Sorry for my bad english )

I convert a php code to python. i have 10000 lines where i add and add
and add string.... like var += "xxxxxx"

And line 5139 i have SystemError: com_backpatch: offset too large.
All work except if i exceed line 5139 !

I dont find solution. I have only found this post
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=fr&lr=&client=firefox-a&threadm=mailman.165.1085189105.6949.python-list%40python.org&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dcom_backpatch%26hl%3Dfr%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26tab%3Dwg

There is a solution?
Do i to give up python and return to php?

Thank for your help
Alban


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Nov 19 03:44:05 2004
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 00:44:05 -0800
Subject: SPARK v.s. PLY
References: <ed89f8f2.0411180648.49ac6763@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0411190044.27262bc9@posting.google.com>

SPARK and PLY are similar. I happened upon PLY first, and it worked
well for me. I'm not sure that either SPARK or PLY is up to parsing
full-blown C++, though. (They may be fine with a subset. I used PLY
for a little domain-specific language, and found for the most part
that it worked as advertised.)

Best of luck,

Vinay Sajip


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Nov 19 15:22:27 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:22:27 -0800
Subject: How to sort a list of tuples
In-Reply-To: <1100859769.700610@eng-ser6>
References: <1100859769.700610@eng-ser6>
Message-ID: <10psl9242rqslf1@corp.supernews.com>

Valkyrie wrote:

>I have a list of tuples, and one of the fields in the tuple is score. So how can
>I sort the list by the score?
>
>Thanks in advance
>  
>

Others have showed the possibility of a comparison function, but often
it's faster to use the decorate-sort-undecorate pattern:

def sort_on(list_to_sort, field_num):
templist = [ (item[field_num], item) for item in list_to_sort ]
templist.sort()
return [ item[1] for item in templist ]

Note that I'm creating a new list, leaving the original list unsorted.
You can easily rebind the original name to the sorted list if needed --

mylist = sort_on(mylist, 3)

I believe that using the key=... in 2.4 is faster than this DSU pattern,
but DSU is typically faster than using a cmp() function/lambda.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From craig at postnewspapers.com.au  Tue Nov 30 04:11:08 2004
From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:11:08 +0800
Subject: Class methods in Python/C?
Message-ID: <1101805868.25219.9.camel@bucket.localnet>

Hi folks

I've been doing some looking around, but have been unable to find out
how to implement class methods on Python objects written in C. "Why are
you using C?" you ask?

Yeah, so do I. However, I need to provide bindings for an application
that Python is embedded into, and thanks to Qt the bindings are going to
be both simple and quite powerful. However, I need a way to do class
methods...

If anybody has any tips on this, It'd be much appreciated.

--
Craig Ringer



From prinster at mail.com  Wed Nov 17 21:21:02 2004
From: prinster at mail.com (Stephen Prinster)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 02:21:02 GMT
Subject: ODBC Select
In-Reply-To: <ggTmd.419457$D%.49733@attbi_s51>
References: <ggTmd.419457$D%.49733@attbi_s51>
Message-ID: <iGTmd.22639$6q2.19314@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>

Larry wrote:
> I am trying to connect to my MySQL database using python and ODBC.
> 
> Here is what I am doing.
> 
>  >>> import dbi,odbc
>  >>> conn=odbc.odbc("dsn=facs")
>  >>> cursor=conn.cursor()
>  >>> cursor.execute("select * from data")
> 0
>  >>>
> 
> Notice I get the "0" after the select statement.
> Problem is, there are 20 records in the database.  In fact I can do this
> 
>  >>> cursor.execute("insert into data (facility) values ('AAA')")
> 1
>  >>>
> 
> and then I can do this
> 
>  >>> cursor.execute("delete from data where id > 20")
> 1
>  >>>
> 
> but when I do
> 
>  >>> cursor.execute("select * from data")
> 0
>  >>>
> 
> Anyone seen this and can maybe tell me why this is occuring.  I have 
> full privileges as I can log on and query with the DSN from other programs.
> 
> Thanks,
> Larry
> 
> 
> 
According to PEP 249, the return value for cursor.execute() is undefined 
and there seems to be little documentation for the ODBC module, so my 
guess (and I can't confirm it from home where I have no Windows) is that 
   0 indicates "success" and has nothing to do with the number of 
records.  Have you tried a "print cursor.fetchone()" to see if anything 
is there?


From JFeghhi at visa.com  Thu Nov  4 15:00:21 2004
From: JFeghhi at visa.com (Feghhi, Jalil)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:00:21 -0800
Subject: Storing objects in dictionary
Message-ID: <8C53AAFA2050EE40BDCDB9455DA7D6340C6266@sw720ex020.visa.com>


I get an error storing an object in a dictionary. The dictionary and the object are both provided by mod_python. One is the session object (which is just a dictionary) and one is a FieldStorage object (I think it is a class but displays as a dictionary). My question is what is the requirement for an object to be able to store it in a dictionary? I am sure there is documentaion somewehre but I couldn't find it.

Regards,

-Jalil


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Nov 18 11:31:57 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:31:57 +0100
Subject: numarray
References: <2617fd5d.0411180721.12c50d8a@posting.google.com>
	<cnifqa$cvp$02$1@news.t-online.com> <cnih6q$74s$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <cniipq$el$01$1@news.t-online.com>

> 
> Actually,
> 
>    import numarray
> 
> Note the case. In addition,
> 
>    import Numeric
> 
> will import Numeric, not numarray. But otherwise, Diez is correct.

I actually _used_ Numeric as that is what is installed on my machine :) So I
couldn't verify that Numarray is not working...

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From rambam at bigpond.net.au  Sat Nov  6 16:01:46 2004
From: rambam at bigpond.net.au (Israel Raj T)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 21:01:46 GMT
Subject: Newsgroup mood
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6011.1099764243.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <874qk2y9mv.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>

Brian van den Broek <bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca> writes:

> (I recall a post I made to a LUG asking for help with an aborted attempt to get Linux and my laptop's Winmodem to
> co-operate. I was flamed because my mail headers indicated that I was using Thunderbird on *Windows* -- the horror! -- 

Or perhaps because you had not read the many available resources on using winmodems under linux.

BTW, if you are looking for a decent mail client check out gnus. Of  the over 20 mail clients that I have used over the
years, this is the best.


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Thu Nov  4 19:48:01 2004
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:48:01 -0600
Subject: pep 336:  Make None Callable
In-Reply-To: <1gmqwsw.a5ixmah4l770N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.5928.1099598880.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmqwsw.a5ixmah4l770N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200411041848.01135.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Thursday 04 November 2004 02:41 pm, Alex Martelli wrote:
> Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
>    ...
> > I just noticed though, that:
> > 
> > noop = lambda *a, **kw: None
> > 
> > is illegal (apparently lambda doesn't support argument indirection (or
> > whatever that "*" syntax is properly called)).  Never tried it before.
> 
> ???  it's quite OK:
> 
> kallisti:~/cb/cha/oop/cba alex$ python2.3
> Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) 
> [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> lambda *a, **k: None
> <function <lambda> at 0x61430>

Oh DUH! I actually typed:

noop = lambda *a, *kw: None

which *is* a syntax error of course. Sorry about that.  That's
a relief.

Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From belred1 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 18 00:04:16 2004
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 05:04:16 GMT
Subject: Named tuples
In-Reply-To: <419c20da.344317031@news.oz.net>
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>	<mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.6511.1100727971.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gnf6b7.nnqkns1c991f3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.6520.1100738474.5135.python-list@python.org>	<10pntj5m0spvl3f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.6521.1100740991.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<hcUmd.520265$mD.141102@attbi_s02> <419c20da.344317031@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <k3Wmd.45854$V41.9126@attbi_s52>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 02:57:23 GMT, Bryan <belred1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> [...]
> 
>>it should be possible to avoid a recusive problem:
>>
>>
>>>>>a = ('1', '2')
>>>>>a.__names__ = ('ONE', 'TWO')
> 
> I guess you are working with a patched version of python?
> 
>  >>> a = ('1', '2')
>  >>> a.__names__ = ('ONE', 'TWO')
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>  TypeError: 'tuple' object has only read-only attributes (assign to .__names__)
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

we were discussing a feature that doesn't yet exist.  i believe it's possible to 
get around the recursion issue by only allowing the __names__ attribute to be 
accessed in the immediate explicitly called tuple.  i really do like the idea of 
named tuple elements.

bryan


From jerry at jerrysievers.com  Tue Nov 23 12:54:34 2004
From: jerry at jerrysievers.com (Jerry Sievers)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 12:54:34 -0500
Subject: Transfer data from webpage form to database
References: <41a36ab7$0$23056$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net>
Message-ID: <m33bz05u3p.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>

"Pete....." <helten0007 at yahoo.com> writes:

> Hi all.
> I have made a webpage where there is a webform where people can fill in
> their personel information:
> 
> The code is below:
> 
> 
> I want to transfer the data to a postgreSQL database ( I have allready made
> the database with the neccesary tables, and I know how to connect to it )
> but I really have no idea how I can transfer the data from the webform to
> the database.

Your sample form shows being posted to an ASP file which you are going
to change to a Python.cgi script, right?

#!/usr/local/bin/python

print 'content-type: text/plain\n'

import cgi
import someDatabaseAPI

form = cgi.FieldStorage()

someDatabaseAPI.connect()

someDatabaseAPI.query("""
insert into foo
values ('%s', '%s')
""" % (form[key1].value, form[key2].value))

# where key1, key2... are the field names in HTML form

Have a look at the cgi Python module where you will learn all about
this.

HTH


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Sievers   305 854-3001 (home)     WWW ECommerce Consultant
                305 321-1144 (mobile	http://www.JerrySievers.com/


From foo at bar.com  Sat Nov  6 13:19:49 2004
From: foo at bar.com (Steve Menard)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 13:19:49 -0500
Subject: JMS for CPython via JPype?
In-Reply-To: <n4soo0t5hf838mtjb3cjp9jiu8rrqmu0pm@4ax.com>
References: <1b2k1czwwox4i$.ae466jlsmeu2$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<n4soo0t5hf838mtjb3cjp9jiu8rrqmu0pm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <iB8jd.60325$v03.1239286@wagner.videotron.net>

David Morgenthaler wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 18:19:25 +0100, Wolfgang Keller
> <wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hello,
>>
>>sorry for the potentially dumb question, but - would JPype make it possible 
>>for a CPython program to use JMS? It seems that JMS is going to become a
>>standard for (java-based) MOM, so as an excellent middleware language it
>>should be possible for CPython to somehow "talk" (and understand) JMS...
>>
> 
> 
> Your question intrigued me, so I gave it a try. And the anwer (at
> least for JMS Publish/Subscribe TextMessages) is YES.
> 
> The example I wrote is too long to include here, but you can get it at
> http://home.comcast.net/~david.g.morgenthaler/Jpypejms.zip. It
> includes:
> - Java classes for a publisher (src/messaging/JpypePublisher) and a
> subscriber (src/messaging/JpypeSubscriber). These Java classes, which
> do most of the dirty work of connecting to the JMS server, are used
> from python via jpype.
> - Java classes that test the publisher and subscriber
> (src/messaging/testJpepePublisher, src/messaging/testJpypeSubscriber)
> - A Java interface that is used by python for the JProxy
> - python scripts for publishing and subscribing
> - An build.xml for ant to build and run the Java classes
> 
> The  Java and python publishers and subscribers work in any reasonable
> combination (J pub/J sub, J pub/p sub, p pub/p sub, p pub/J sub, and
> even with multiple subscribers)
> 
> Unzip to a conveniently located folder. You'll find a build.xml for
> ant to build the Java. You'll have to edit (in the testers and in the
> python scripts) the naming and connection factory stuff for your
> situation. You'll also have to edit the python scripts to correctly
> locate your jvm and other classpath information. Once you're correctly
> configured, you can use ant to build and/or execute the Java (type
> "ant help"). And once the Java is built, you can try the python
> versions.
> 
> I can't imagine that this approach wouldn't work for JMS Queues. And
> while I haven't tested it, I don't see anything preventing the use of
> other message types (BinaryMessage, ObjectMessage,...).
> 
> BTW, I don't detect any noticable slowdown in the python versions from
> the Java versions (probably because of the strightforward conversion
> of python strings to Java Strings).
> 
> HTH,
> Dave
> 

Dave,

This example is amazing! would you be willing to contribute it to a 
Jpype examples/recipe repository? I think such a place would be great 
for those starting to use JPype. And as my documentation is not so good 
(yet), good examples can only help.

Thanks.

Steve Menard


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Nov 21 09:51:18 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:51:18 +0100
Subject: unicode question
In-Reply-To: <KH_nd.23139$jf.19287@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
References: <qkLnd.22919$jf.19362@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<419fc9b9$0$198$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<419ff7cd_3@newspeer2.tds.net> <41A061E1.8050203@v.loewis.de>
	<KH_nd.23139$jf.19287@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
Message-ID: <41a0ab62$0$151$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

wolfgang haefelinger wrote:
> I was actually thinking that
> 
>  print x
> 
> is just kind of shortcur for writing (simplifying bit):
> 
>  import sys
>  if not (isinstance(x,str) or isinstance(x,unicode)) and x.__str__ :
>     x = x.__str__()
>  sys.stdout.write(x)

This is too simplifying. For the context of this discussion,
it is rather

import sys
if isinstance(x, unicode) and sys.stdout.encoding:
     x = x.encode(sys.stdout.encoding)
x = str(x)
sys.stdout.write(x)

(this, of course, is still quite simplicated. It ignores tp_print,
and it ignores softspaces).

> Or in words: if x is not a string type but has method __str__ then
> 
>  print x
> 
> behaves like
> 
>  print x.__str__()

No. There are many types for which this is not true; in this specific
case, it isn't true for Unicode objects.

> Is this a bug??

No. You are just misunderstanding it.

Regards,
Martin


From kayschluehr at gmx.de  Sun Nov  7 10:10:34 2004
From: kayschluehr at gmx.de (Kay Schluehr)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 16:10:34 +0100
Subject: Python OS
In-Reply-To: <418E339F.4020206@gmx.de>
References: <418E339F.4020206@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <418E3AEA.5020200@gmx.de>

Richard Blackwood wrote:

> An intriguing possibility, I do not see what obstacles exist here but 
> I am sure they exist.  A question:  In Pyrex may I perform a malloc?


Yes Pyrex could. See for example:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/python-list/1586601

But this would not solve the deeper problem of defining a malloc ( or 
pymalloc ) where You can't use any
dynanism and of course no prexisting malloc. Any advantage of dynamic 
and interpreted HLLs gets lost,
when You have to deal with memory layout.

One could imagine a similar project than "Sanos" for Python, just 
replacing the JVM by the CPython-Interpreter.

http://www.jbox.dk/sanos/

But its not the same, than rewriting the OS-kernel itself in Python.

Regards
             Kay







From przemas_r at o2.pl  Wed Nov 17 18:00:06 2004
From: przemas_r at o2.pl (przemas_r at o2.pl)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 00:00:06 +0100
Subject: os.system vs os.system inside thread -> why is there any
	difference?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6504.1100719376.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cng2gp$mup$1@julia.coi.pw.edu.pl>
	<mailman.6504.1100719376.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cngl20$6el$1@julia.coi.pw.edu.pl>

Thanks for the answer.
I've rewritten my code to use fork and exec calls instead of system 
call, but it still works only if run outside a thread. Here is the snippet:

def ipState (self, ip):
	if os.fork () == 0:
		command = 'arping -f -w %s -c %s -I %s %s' % (self.wait, 		 
self.count, self.iface, ip)
		os.execvp ('arping', command.split ())
		os._exit ()
	else:
		status = os.wait () [1] & 0xff
		print status

Changing start () to run () at the point where thread class is created 
and started (and thus running in main proccess instead) will cause the 
arping command to run properly. So the problem remains the same.

Jeff Epler wrote:
> On POSIX systems, Python blocks the delivery of signals to threads, and
> installs a 'pthread_atfork' handler to restore the default behavior when
> fork() is called, because otherwise it leads to weird behavior in
> programs started with fork+exec.
> 
> In the case of arping, I suspect the of the SIGALRM signal remains
> blocked, and arping waits forever for either the signal or the return
> packet.
> 
> On Linux, at least, system() never calls the pthread_atfork
> handler, and the redhat maintainers have made it clear that they believe
> this behavior is allowed by the Open Group unix specification.
> 
> Here's an entry-point into a python-dev thread on the subject:
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-December/041311.html
> with links to the Open Group specification and the closed redhat bug.
> 
> I suggest you write a replacement for system() in terms of fork + exec
> and then you should get the behavior you want.
> 
> I continue to believe this is a redhat or glibc bug but my opinion
> doesn't seem to matter.
> 
> Jeff


From pete.forman at westerngeco.com  Fri Nov 26 07:34:04 2004
From: pete.forman at westerngeco.com (Pete Forman)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 12:34:04 +0000
Subject: How to get an item from a simple set?
References: <mzx7xo74.fsf@wgmail2.gatwick.eur.slb.com>
	<mailman.6756.1101311220.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<is7vxlw5.fsf@wgmail2.gatwick.eur.slb.com>
	<YI2pd.455349$D%.179882@attbi_s51>
	<ekijxjod.fsf@wgmail2.gatwick.eur.slb.com>
	<lI3pd.94168$5K2.20006@attbi_s03>
Message-ID: <act4yekj.fsf@wgmail2.gatwick.eur.slb.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> writes:

 > So is this just one branch of a case statement?  What do you do in
 > the case that len(s) != 1?  And which one happens more often?

My s contains a set of possible values that are being refined.  I'm
printing either a single resolved value or "many" to indicate there is
still some way to go.  len(s) > 1 is not exceptional though len(s) ==
0 would be.  Over the run of the program one and many will happen
equally often.  Performance is less of an issue than clarity of the
code.
-- 
Pete Forman                -./\.-  Disclaimer: This post is originated
WesternGeco                  -./\.-   by myself and does not represent
pete.forman at westerngeco.com    -./\.-   opinion of Schlumberger, Baker
http://petef.port5.com           -./\.-   Hughes or their divisions.


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Fri Nov 12 04:44:04 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 01:44:04 -0800
Subject: this looks like a bug in generator comprehension
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0411120144.444315c0@posting.google.com>

Consider this example:

def f(x,y):
   yield str(x) + y

"".join([s for s in f(1,2)])

I get correctly 

TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects

However if I use a generator comprehension (I am using Python 2.4b2)
I get a misleading error message:

TypeError: sequence expected, generator found

Is this a known bug?

                                Michele Simionato


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Tue Nov 23 15:13:00 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:13:00 -0500
Subject: is int(round(val)) safe?
In-Reply-To: <zIHod.2026$QR.1966@lakeread01>
References: <rowen-8AF206.11131622112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<cntjpk$qc2$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<DWsod.378073$wV.108786@attbi_s54>
	<cntmi2$6rf$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<mailman.6717.1101179702.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zIHod.2026$QR.1966@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <1f7befae0411231213ccf1a3b@mail.gmail.com>

[Steve Holden]
,,,
> >>> d = {1.0: "Something",
> ...        1: "Something else"}
> >>> d
> {1.0: 'Something else'}
> >>>
>
> Python has known for a long time that 1.0 and 1 are the same thing.
> Note, however, that I don't believe it's guaranteed that the contents of
> d will turn out the same in different Python versions. I suppose Tim
> would be able to quote chapter and verse, given his familiarity with
> every little implementation detail of the dict.

Alas, this chapter hasn't been written yet, let alone the verse.  If you do

d[k] = v

when d already has a key equal to k, its associated value is replaced,
but it's really not defined whether the old key is replaced or
retained.  All known implementations of Python retain the old key in
this case.

The other *seeming* ambiguity here isn't one:  whether, in {a: b, c:
d}, a or c is added first.  Python requires "left to right"
evaluation, so that's actually defined -- although this one may be
more clearly defined in Guido's head than by the docs.


From Ian.Sparks at etrials.com  Mon Nov 22 14:49:54 2004
From: Ian.Sparks at etrials.com (Ian Sparks)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:49:54 -0500
Subject: Metaclasses / Decorators for magick with functions
Message-ID: <41A1CBC76FDECC42B67946519C6677A9018C2FE1@pippin.int.etrials.com>

Hi all,

I wanted to do some magick to classes so that any method.__name__.startswith('list') would be expected to return a list and would magically wrap the elements of that list with an ItemWrapper() instance.

For instance, this might be useful for automatically wrapping the rows of a cursor result set from a database with the excellent dtuple. Besides, it's evil, and sometimes evil is good. ;)

This is what I came up with using Python 2.3 (no @ available). Is there a better way?  

class ItemWrapper:
    """A class that wraps an item in a list"""
    def __init__(self,item):
        self.item = item

    def val(self): 
        """Example wrapped method"""
        return self.item
        
class ListWrapper:
    """
    Wraps the elements of a functions return list with
    ItemWrapper() instances
    """
    def __init__(self,f):
        self.f = f
            
    def __call__(self,*args,**kwds):
        vals = self.f(self.f,*args,**kwds)
        return [ItemWrapper(x) for x in vals]

class MyMeta(type):
    """
    Metaclass that will wrap methods who's names
    start with 'list' with ListWrappers
    """
    def __new__(cls, name, bases, dct):
        for key,item in dct.items():
            if key.startswith('list'):
                import types
                if type(item) == types.FunctionType:
                    dct[key] = ListWrapper(dct[key])
        return type.__new__(cls, name, bases, dct)

class ParentTest:
    """
    Parent class to inherit from, so folks know that they're
    declaring a class with magick
    """
    __metaclass__ = MyMeta
    
class Test(ParentTest):
    """
    A class who's listXXX methods return lists of ItemWrappers()
    instead of what is expected. BWWWWAHAHAHAHAH!
    """
    def list1(self):
        return [1,2,3,4]

if __name__ == '__main__':

    t = Test()
    vals = t.list1()
    for x in vals:
        print x,x.val()


From flaxeater at gmail.com  Mon Nov 15 11:44:24 2004
From: flaxeater at gmail.com (Chad Crabtree)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 08:44:24 -0800
Subject: Is a list an instance of a class?
References: <mailman.6360.1100469121.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <58494099.0411150844.897d8bf@posting.google.com>

Jp Calderone <exarkun at divmod.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.6360.1100469121.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:50:14 +0100, Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Granger <fgranger at fgranger.com> wrote:
> >Le 14/11/04 21:33, =AB=A0Kent Johnson=A0=BB <kent3737 at yahoo.com> a =E9crit=A0:
> > 
> > > Is this still correct or was it made obsolete by Python 2.2? Lists and
> > > files have __class__ attributes, at least:
> > 
> > As you disovered, this is obsolete. You even have some emulation you can
> > built on :
> > 
> > Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11)
> > [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> > >>> import UserList
> > >>> dir (UserList)
> > ['UserList', '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__']
> > 
> > For me, this file resides in:
> 
>   UserList (UserDict, UserString) are also mostly obsolete:
> 
>     >>> class foo(list):
>     ...     def __str__(self):
>     ...             return 'foo list: ' + super(foo, self).__str__()
>     ... 
>     >>> print foo(range(3))
>     foo list: [0, 1, 2]
> 
>   Jp

However I must point out that UserList and Dict are not *REALLY*
obsolete because they give someone a pure python implementation to
look at in order to know _what_ to subclass to attain the behavior
they like.


From nick at craig-wood.com  Thu Nov 11 14:30:31 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 11 Nov 2004 19:30:31 GMT
Subject: pickle: huge memory consumption *during* pickling
References: <cn00o5$r0j$1@fuerst.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
Message-ID: <slrncp7bve.tb7.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Hans Georg Krauthaeuser <hgk at et.uni-magdeburg.de> wrote:
>  I have a long running application (electromagnetic compatibility 
>  measurements in mode-stirred chambers over GPIB) that use pickle 
>  (cPickle) to autosave a class instance with all the measured data from 
>  time to time.
> 
>  At the beginning, pickling is quite fast but when the data becomes more 
>  and more pickling slows down rapidly.
> 
>  Today morning we reached the situation that it took 6 hours to pickle 
>  the class instance. The pickle file was than approx. 92 MB (this is ok). 
>  During pickling the memory consuption of the python proccess was up to 
>  450 MB (512 MB RAM -> machine was swapping all the time).

You've probably got lots of instances of a single class...  We managed
to 1/3 the memory requirments in a similar situation by using new
style classes (inherit from object) and defining __slots__ for just a
single class!

>  My class use data types taken from a c++ class via swig. Don't know if 
>  that is important...

This may be important I don't know!

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From sam at three60.com  Thu Nov  4 17:32:04 2004
From: sam at three60.com (Sam)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 14:32:04 -0800
Subject: Should I learn Python?
References: <624a388a.0411021328.5ac41f4c@posting.google.com>
	<418807d0$0$19691$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<624a388a.0411030512.3cf84547@posting.google.com>
	<418a370d$0$7210$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <624a388a.0411041432.6aca3a51@posting.google.com>

Thanks Bruno,
No need to apologize, just thought maybe I wasn't being clear, thanks
for your insight


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Wed Nov  3 16:36:11 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:36:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com> <2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <loom.20041103T220732-913@post.gmane.org>

Gabriel Zachmann writes:
>
> would sort of a summary of this thread be of any help?

Here's a first stab at one:


In summary, there are basically three interpretations of "weak-typing" discussed
in this thread:

(1)  A language is "weakly-typed" if it allows code to take a block of memory
that was originally defined as one type and reinterpret the bits of this block
as another type.

(2) A language is "weakly-typed" if it has a large number of implicit coercions.

(3) A language is "weakly-typed" if it often treats objects of one type as other
types.


Some points and problems addressed with each of these definitions:

Definition 1 is the definition most commonly used in Programming Languages
literature, and allows a language to be called "weakly-typed" based only on the
language definition.  However, for all intents and purposes, it is only
applicable to statically typed languages; no one on the list could come up with
a dyamically typed language that allowed bit-reinterpretation.

Definition 2 seemed to be the definition most commonly used on the list, most
likely because it is actually applicable to a dynamically typed language like
Python.  It has the problem that in a language that supports operator
overloading (like Python), programmers can make their language more
"weakly-typed" by simply providing additional coercions, thus whether or not a
language is called "weakly-typed" depends both on the language definition and
any code written in the language.

Definition 3 was an attempt to unify the first two definitions into a single
definition by describing both coercion and bit-reinterpretation as treating
"objects of one type as other types".  This definition has the advantage of
better coverage, but has all the disadvantages of Definition 2.  It is also
unclear as to how weak a "weakly-typed" language is if it both allows
bit-reinterpretation and has a large number of implicit coercions.  (For
example, is a language that allows bit-reinterpretation and only a few implicit
coercions more or less "weakly-typed" than a language that doesn't allow
bit-reinterpretation, but has a large number of implicit coercions?)


I'll leave it to others to classify the various languages by these definitions.
;)

Steve




From max at alcyone.com  Thu Nov  4 22:16:36 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 19:16:36 -0800
Subject: bit operations with python?
References: <36680182.0411041847.397f48fe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <418AF094.200B96C4@alcyone.com>

Jason wrote:

> Is it possible to do this sort of thing with python? If so, could
> someone recommend a website with instructions on bit operations?
> Thanks!

Yes.  The operators in Python are the same as described by the
challenge.  Bitwise and is &, bitwise or is |, and bitwise xor is ^.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ All of your moonlight whispers / Counterfeit, counterfeit love
    -- Lamya


From jbperez808 at wahoo.com  Thu Nov 11 01:47:45 2004
From: jbperez808 at wahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:47:45 +0800
Subject: Tkinter and WCK (was Re: How come wxPython isn't in the standard
 library?)
In-Reply-To: <2vgfe5F2m8raqU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2vgfe5F2m8raqU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <2vgfmeF2m8raqU2@uni-berlin.de>

Jon Perez wrote:

> Without that tear-off menu disabled, I bet you won't be
> able to tell that a modern Tkinter app from a native Win32
> one.

should have read...

With the tear-off menu function disabled, I bet you won't
be able to tell a modern Tkinter app from a native Win32
one in many cases.


From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 27 22:43:29 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 22:43:29 -0500
Subject: Formatted numerical output
In-Reply-To: <Bsbqd.1221$i6.799@news.itd.umich.edu>
References: <Bsbqd.1221$i6.799@news.itd.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <41a94806$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

Mark wrote:
> How do I output formatted numerical data to an external (text) file. At 
> a minimum I want to specify the number of decimal places to print. 
> Ideally I'd like the type of control the fortran FORMAT statement 
> offers. I'm sure this is easy, but I can't seem to find the answer!

Use string formatting operations
http://docs.python.org/lib/typesseq-strings.html

> 
> I want an output file to look like this:
> 
> 0.1   0.8575
> 0.2  12.0900
> 0.4 345.0000
> 0.5   9.0002

Something like

s = "%3.1f %8.4f\n" % (x, y)
out.write(s)


Kent


From serge at rohan.sdsu.edu  Sun Nov  7 12:42:59 2004
From: serge at rohan.sdsu.edu (Serge Rey)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 09:42:59 -0800
Subject: Installed MacPython 10.3 Addons - Can't find Modules,
	even standard ones.
In-Reply-To: <pecora-03E3B5.09264507112004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
References: <pecora-03E3B5.09264507112004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <20041107174259.GA22083@typhoon.sdsu.edu>

On Sun, Nov 07, 2004 at 09:26:45AM -0500, Lou Pecora wrote:
> I upgraded to Panther a month ago and just upgraded to MacPython 10.3 
> Addons (as per Jack Jansen's page - thanks, Jack).
> 
> But now my programs can't even find standard modules.  from Numeric 
> import *  brings up the error window:  Can't find module Numeric.  Even 
> trig functions sine and cosine generate the same type of error.  I've 
> looked over the FAQ and can't see any answers (maybe I missed 
> something).   I'm guessing this is a Path problem, but I'm stumped.  I 
> have PYTHONPATH set to some of my modules (which seems to work), but not 
> sure what to do about standard stuff.

did you install Numeric via the PackageManager in MacPython?


-- 
Serge Rey	http://geography.sdsu.edu/rey.html
Clue: angst and pretentiousness are boring.
-- ESR
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From peter at somewhere.com  Tue Nov 30 03:51:30 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:51:30 +0100
Subject: Protecting Python source
In-Reply-To: <41ab74f4$0$85031$a1866201@visi.com>
References: <f4a45085.0411260701.5859bf43@posting.google.com>
	<lnSpd.18976$Km6.232360@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<coesrc$24i$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<mailman.6877.1101742321.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cofrqd$1d5$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<41ab74f4$0$85031$a1866201@visi.com>
Message-ID: <cohcug$ert$1@swifty.westend.com>

Grant Edwards schrieb:
> On 2004-11-29, Peter Maas <peter at somewhere.com> wrote:
>>If the "reverse engineering" argument boils down to "protecting source
>>doesn't make sense" then why does Microsoft try so hard to  protect
>>its sources?
> 
> 
> To avoid embarassment.

:) This cannot be the whole truth otherwise they wouldn't release
embarrasing binaries.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov 11 19:24:43 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 00:24:43 GMT
Subject: property for class objects
References: <mailman.6198.1100056948.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zvgkd.40384$ak3.1503768@wagner.videotron.net>
	<4191edee.85006843@news.oz.net>
	<eIokd.43311$ak3.1624905@wagner.videotron.net>
	<4192594f.112495279@news.oz.net>
	<ZSykd.44861$ak3.1920602@wagner.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <4193f6cd.218349920@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:02:48 -0500, Steve Menard <foo at bar.com> wrote:
>Bengt Richter wrote:
>> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:28:22 -0500, Steve Menard <foo at bar.com> wrote:
>> [...]
>> 
>>>I wasnt aware of those descriptors (I am just now delving in the "meta" 
>>>side of things), and it looks promising. So thanks for taking the time 
>>>to tlel me about it :)
>>>
>>>Static variables are not just constants however, and the __set__ has to 
>>>work as normal. I did a quick test and it seems by mistake you can even 
>>>erase the descriptor with a new value .. not good.
>>>
>> 
>> Yes, the __set__ only gets called for instance attributes, unless there
>> is something intercepting the class attribute setattr.
>> 
>> 
>>>At least I can use this for the constant static values (which probably 
>>>comprises the bulk) and use the __setattr__ to prevent overwriting them.
>>>
>> 
>> If they're actually constant, why couldn't they be plain old class variables
>> protected by __setattr__?
>> 
>> 
>
>You're right about constants. I could convert them at class-definition 
>time instead of access-time. Thus only the case of non-constant static 
>members do I need to find a solution ...
>
>>>Steve
>>>
>>>Still looking for a more complete solution howeber
>> 
>> Don't know what syntax restrictions you have, but if you are trying to simulate
>> shared static value assignment via an apparent instance attribute assignment, e.g.,
>> 
>>     inst.static = value
>> 
>> why do you need to write
>> 
>>     InstClass.static = something
>> 
>
>Static members are not common in Python. They are however fairly common 
>in Java. So I was hoping to preserve the
>
>	InstClass.value = something
>
>
>
>> at all? You could always make a dummy instance to use when all you
>> wanted to do was access the shared statics, e.g.,
>> 
>>     shared = InstClass()
>>     ...
>>     shared.static = something
>> 
>> or even a dynamically created throwaway instance, as in
>> 
>>     InstClass().static = something
>> 
>This is not an option, as some Java classes that mutable static 
>variables are not instantiatable.
>
>> If you wanted to designate certain names for shared statics to be stored
>> as class variables, you could do something like (only tested as you see here ;-):
>> 
>>  >>> class HasStatics(object):
>>  ...     static_names = 'sa sb sz'.split()
>>  ...     def __setattr__(self, name, value):
>>  ...         if name in self.static_names: setattr(type(self), name, value)
>>  ...         else: object.__setattr__(self, name, value)
>>  ...
>>  >>> hs = HasStatics()
>>  >>> vars(hs)
>>  {}
>>  >>> hs.x = 123
>>  >>> vars(hs)
>>  {'x': 123}
>>  >>> hs.sa = 456
>>  >>> vars(hs)
>>  {'x': 123}
>>  >>> HasStatics.sa
>>  456
>>  >>> hs.sa
>>  456
>>  >>> vars(HasStatics).keys()
>>  ['__module__', '__setattr__', '__dict__', 'sa', '__weakref__', '__doc__', 'static_names']
>> 
>> static_names would be faster as a dict of the names (with ignored values), or possibly now
>> a set.
>> 
>
>This is what I do now. However, this break with the following situation :
>
See if example below fixes that

>class A(object) :
>	# class has a property called foo
>
>class B(A) :
>	...
>
>B.foo
>
>As each class only contain it's static variables and not it's ancestors. 
>I bypass this problem by accumlating all static variables in each class, 
>including the static variables of all bases. It works, but then dir() 
>reports variable that are not really there.
Well, dir() walks the base chain, so you may be seeing stuff legitimately.
To see attributes attached to a particular object, try vars(obj). (See test() below)

>
>thanks for the suggestions,
>
>Steve

You're welcome. Here's another possibility. A base class that monitors setting of attributes
on both instances and classes, and keeps "static" variables as class variables in whatever
class they're declared in using __statics__ = ['list','of','names']. Ordinary attributes
are allowed to work normally.

----< statics.py >----------------------------------------
class StaticBase(object):
    class __metaclass__(type):
        def __setattr__(cls, name, value):
            """intercept class attribute writes"""
            for base in cls.mro():
                bdict = type.__getattribute__(base, '__dict__')
                if '__statics__' in bdict and name in bdict['__statics__']:
                    type.__setattr__(base, name, value)
                    break
            else:
                type.__setattr__(cls, name, value)

    def __setattr__(self, name, value):
        """intercept instance attribute writes"""
        for base in type(self).mro():
            bdict = type.__getattribute__(base, '__dict__')
            if '__statics__' in bdict and name in bdict['__statics__']:
                type.__setattr__(base, name, value)
                break
        else:
            object.__setattr__(self, name, value)

def test():
    class A(StaticBase):
        __statics__ = 'sa1 sa2 sa3'.split()
        cva1 = 'class var a1'
    a = A()
    A.x = 123
    a.x = 456
    a.sa1 = 'a.sa1'
    A.sa2 = 'A.sa2'
    a.sa3 = 'a.sa3'
    A.sa3 = 'A.sa3'
    print '\n-- a -------------'
    for it in vars(a).items(): print '%12s: %r'%it
    print '\n-- A -------------'
    for it in vars(A).items(): print '%12s: %r'%it
       
    class B(A):
        __statics__ = 'sb1 sb2 sb3'.split()
        cva1 = 'class var b1'
    b = B()
    B.x = 789
    b.x = 101112
    b.sb1 = 'b.sb1'
    B.sb2 = 'B.sb2'
    b.sb3 = 'b.sb3'
    B.sb3 = 'B.sb3'
    b.sa1 = 'b.sa1' # should go to A
    B.sa2 = 'B.sa2'
    b.sa3 = 'b.sa3'
    B.sa3 = 'B.sa3'
    print '\n-- b -------------'
    for it in vars(b).items(): print '%12s: %r'%it
    print '\n-- B -------------'
    for it in vars(B).items(): print '%12s: %r'%it
    print '\n-- a -------------'
    for it in vars(a).items(): print '%12s: %r'%it
    print '\n-- A -------------'
    for it in vars(A).items(): print '%12s: %r'%it
    
if __name__ == '__main__':
    test()
----------------------------------------------------------
Result:

[16:19] C:\pywk\cs>statics.py

-- a -------------
           x: 456

-- A -------------
        cva1: 'class var a1'
  __module__: '__main__'
 __statics__: ['sa1', 'sa2', 'sa3']
         sa2: 'A.sa2'
         sa3: 'A.sa3'
           x: 123
         sa1: 'a.sa1'
     __doc__: None

-- b -------------
           x: 101112

-- B -------------
         sb2: 'B.sb2'
        cva1: 'class var b1'
  __module__: '__main__'
         sb1: 'b.sb1'
         sb3: 'B.sb3'
 __statics__: ['sb1', 'sb2', 'sb3']
           x: 789
     __doc__: None

-- a -------------
           x: 456

-- A -------------
        cva1: 'class var a1'
  __module__: '__main__'
 __statics__: ['sa1', 'sa2', 'sa3']
         sa2: 'B.sa2'
         sa3: 'B.sa3'
           x: 123
         sa1: 'b.sa1'
     __doc__: None

Unfortunately this probably slows execution quite a bit, since there is programmed
chasing of base classes for every attribute set. But if most of the accesses are reads
it might be ok, since those aren't monitored. You could memoize name->baseclass
for statics to speed things a little, I suppose, being careful that the caches don't
shadow some dynamic change that might be possible. You could also add write protection.

HTH

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jonasgalvez at gmail.com  Sat Nov 13 21:50:18 2004
From: jonasgalvez at gmail.com (Jonas Galvez)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 00:50:18 -0200
Subject: looking for a good introduction to OOP
In-Reply-To: <MPG.1c005cd4c4025381989685@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
References: <MPG.1c005cd4c4025381989685@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <7c60b605041113185027675525@mail.gmail.com>

Darren Dale wrote:
> I would like to learn more about object oriented concepts

This is just about the best introduction to OOP I have ever seen:

http://www.debreuil.com/docs/ch01_Intro.htm

This is a very well written and illustrated tutorial which should get 
you started on the whole thing. It is focused on (Flash) ActionScript 
(a JavaScript implementation) programming. JavaScript and Python are 
very similar languages when it comes to OOP and functional 
programming. Although JavaScript is prototype based, it still 
resembles a lof of the characterists of Python. You might even be able 
to grasp concepts like meta-classes more easily if you are familiar 
with the JavaScript prototype mechanism. 

As they say, JavaScript is under-rated.



\\ jonas galvez
// jonasgalvez.com


From dave.benjamin at gmail.com  Sat Nov  6 03:25:02 2004
From: dave.benjamin at gmail.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 01:25:02 -0700
Subject: Tkinter for system administration?
Message-ID: <gO%id.86818$bk1.17025@fed1read05>

Is Tkinter pretty common for simple behind-the-scenes admin tools where 
a GUI is required (for instance, data entry tools for non-programmers) 
or has everybody moved on to wx/GTK/QT/etc.?

I'm not particularly concerned with speed or appearance; the ability to 
crank out simple GUIs quickly and without a lot of hassles or trips to 
the reference manual is more important. I have no trouble using Tkinter 
because I used to write a bit of Tcl/Tk back in the day, and I'm pretty 
aware of its strengths and weaknesses. For simple tools, is there any 
reason to switch to one of the more popular GUI frameworks?

Thanks,
Dave


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Nov  2 18:55:11 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 18:55:11 -0500
Subject: Test a Python function within Python without importing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5811.1099408369.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5808.1099406409.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cm87q1$3nn$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5811.1099408369.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <q8mdnSBq9-ijgRXcRVn-iw@powergate.ca>

Marco Aschwanden wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 16:06:42 +0100, Diez B. Roggisch 
> <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote:
> 
>> use exec on the compiled object - the details are in the docs.
> 
> I did it... but exec() does not return a value - or does it?

And note, though you probably discovered this already, that
exec is a statement, not a function.  Don't use the parentheses,
and you won't expect a return value... (as with print, for example).


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 01:19:43 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 3 Nov 2004 22:19:43 -0800
Subject: yet another recipe on string interpolation
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0411032219.659c1824@posting.google.com>

I was playing with string.Template in Python 2.4 and I came out with the
following recipe:

import sys
from string import Template

def merge(*dictionaries):
    """Merge from right (i.e. the rightmost dictionary has the precedence)."""
    merg = {}
    for d in dictionaries:
        merg.update(d)
    return merg

def interp(s, dic = None):
    if dic is None: dic = {} 
    caller = sys._getframe(1)
    return Template(s) % merge(caller.f_globals, caller.f_locals, dic)

language="Python"
print interp("My favorite language is $language.")

Do you have any comments? Suggestions for improvements?

  Michele Simionato


From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Nov 23 14:15:37 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 11:15:37 -0800
Subject: protocols, inheritance and polymorphism
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>
	<Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<YWKod.137814$HA.44609@attbi_s01>
Message-ID: <donn-F6A9D8.11153623112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <YWKod.137814$HA.44609 at attbi_s01>,
 Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
...
> This is not to say that there are never any times when you want to use 
> isinstance.  Here's a good example from my code for a Bunch class[1]:
> 
> class Bunch(object):
>      ...
>      def update(self, *args, **kwds):
>          if len(args) == 1:
>              other, = args
>              if isinstance(other, self.__class__):
>                  other = other.__dict__
>              try:
>                  self.__dict__.update(other)
>              except TypeError:
>                  raise TypeError('cannot update Bunch with %s' %
>                                  type(other).__name__)
>          elif len(args) != 0:
>              raise TypeError('expected 1 argument, got %i' % len(args))
>          self.__dict__.update(kwds)
> 
> In the code here, we use isinstance to check on whether or not to use 
> the argument's __dict__. 
...

> The point here is that I'm using isinstance here because I *know* there 
> are objects out there that, unlike Bunch objects, may have 'attributes' 
> not stored in their __dict__, and I *know* they might get passed to 
> Bunch.update.  Since I can't appropriately support their use, I want the 
> user to be notified of this (with the TypeError).
> 
> Of course, I'm still making heavy use of the more general parametric 
> polymorphism because even if the object doesn't inherit from Bunch, I 
> still pass it to dict.update, which works with any type that supports 
> the mapping protocol (and a few other types besides).  So if, in the 
> future dict.update gains support for some new type, my code doesn't 
> artifically restrict the type of parameter that can be passed to my 
> function.
> 
> Hope this was helpful (or at least vaguely intelligible) ;)

I don't really see that isinstance() was necessary in principle
here.  Not that it makes any difference to me, but it looks like
you created this problem by defining these semantics in Bunch
but failing to assign any identifiable attribute - we could in
principle make another unrelated class "quack like a Bunch",
but we'd have no way to inform your update function of this.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From johnaherne at rocs.co.uk  Sun Nov 28 08:00:08 2004
From: johnaherne at rocs.co.uk (John Aherne)
Date: 28 Nov 2004 05:00:08 -0800
Subject: deleting os files
Message-ID: <faf2d781.0411280500.5a71fd2d@posting.google.com>

Being a bit of a newbie, I hope this question isn't too stupid. I have
searched the archives and docs for any reports about files and csv
messages and not found anything that mentions the problem I am having.

I have happily been using the os.remove and file.close commands with a
program that sends data to an ftp site.

Now I am using the csv module to read some os files and extract some
fields that I use to send messages to someone.

Once the message has been sent I want to delete the file. Great I
think. I'll cannibalise the code I did for the ftp stuff.

The program runs in a permanent while loop and uses a for loop to
process files from a particular directory.

Unfortunately, when it comes to delete, I get a permission error. And
yes, when I run the program and try to delete the file from the
command prompt, I get a permission error.

As far as I can tell, I assume the file is being kept open in the
DictReader call. But I can't work out how I can close the file -
.close comand also returns an error. I was assuming that on the return
from the call the file would be closed - mistakenly I now think.

This is using python 2.3.3 on W2k

The sample code is below. Not much to it. If I comment out the close
and delete lines (not shown here) then the program happily carries on
processing the same files over and over. Not what I want.

I hope the code shows up in a rerasonable format for reading.

    locallist = [(x) for x in os.listdir(localdir) if   
os.path.getsize(os.path.join(localdir, x)) > 0]     # upload all local
files
    localfiles = fnmatch.filter(locallist, '*.OUT')
    for localname in localfiles:  
       localpath = os.path.join(localdir, localname) 
       if localname[-3:] == 'OUT':
            csv_file = file(localpath)
	    reader = csv.DictReader(csv_file,['phone', 'msg', 'PZ', 'MP'])
	    for row in reader:
	        phone = row['phone']
                msg = row['msg']

            print time.ctime(time.time()),' uploading', msg,  'to',
phone

if anyone can point me in the right direction I would much appreciate
it.


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Tue Nov  9 03:32:58 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 9 Nov 2004 00:32:58 -0800
Subject: ANN: New configuration module released
References: <2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840@posting.google.com>	<cmbet0$d51$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6072.1099842837.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0411090032.17087428@posting.google.com>

Anthony Baxter <anthonybaxter at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.6072.1099842837.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:26:07 -0500, Neal D. Becker
> <ndbecker2 at verizon.net> wrote:
> > The boost c++ library (about to be released) has a new program_options
> > parser.  One feature I appreciate in the design, is that the source of
> > options is seperated from the rest of the design.  This means that, out of
> > the box, it reads options from command line, from config files, and from
> > env variables.  Probably not hard to extend if anyone could think of a
> > reason.
> > 
> > I believe a decent config module should at least handle both config files
> > and command line options.  ENV variables are a nice touch too.
> 
> I did something similar in shtoom (see the svn repo) - you provide
> definitions of the options, and it builds up optparse, configparser,
> and GUI preferences dialogs for them. Options provided are then stored
> in the configparser file format, so you don't have to re-enter them
> each time.

Complex ways of specifying expected options are fine - but it would be
really good if a new ConfigParse module also had an ultra simple
interface as well.

ConfigObj (here we go...) my config file parser, if called with just a
filename, parses everything in the config file and presents the
results as a dictionary. That means you can add config file support
with basically 1 line of code (plus the import statement). This is
particularly useful for small admin scripts where you write the config
files yourself - speed and simplicity over flexibility.

Regards,

Fuzzy
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Nov 18 09:00:46 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:00:46 -0500
Subject: SQL Server stored prcedures with output parameters
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6535.1100768372.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6535.1100768372.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <419CAB0E.1040002@holdenweb.com>

Tim Golden wrote:

> [Steve Holden]
> 
> | However, the stored procedure below appears to consistently 
> | return zero for the link_id when called with:
> | 
> | columnist_id, url, title, description, link_id = \
> | 	curs.callproc("sp_InsertArticle",
> | 		(columnist_id, url, title, description, 0))
> | 
> | so maybe there really *is* something wrong.
> 
> Ummm... Well, I don't know how you'd do it from ado, but
> if I were writing this in T-SQL, I'd be saying:
> 
> DECLARE @new_link_id
> EXECUTE sp_InsertArticle @columnist_id... , @new_link_id OUTPUT
> 
Thanks very much for your reply, I'm getting a bit desperate here. The 
T-SQL you quote is indeed what one would do, but an adequate translation 
into Python is defying me.

> In other words, you have to tell SQL that the param you're
> passing in is an output param. Frankly, I don't know why, since
> the data dictionary already knows that the formal parameter to
> which it corresponds is flagged as output, but there it is.
> I don't know (and I don't have the time to look just at the 
> moment) how ADO handles that.
> 
Well, in ADO you'd normally create a command object and then do 
something like

objCmnd.Parameters.Append.CreateParameter("@link_id", &
		adInteger, adParamOutput, , 0)

Unfortunately as far as I can see the DB API docs are silent on how to 
distinguish the output parameters to a callproc(), contenting itself 
with saying """The result of the call is returned as modified copy of 
the input sequence. Input parameters are left untouched, output and 
input/output parameters replaced with possibly new values."""

The adodbapi callproc method uses an executeHelper() function that 
attempts different strategies. It does indeed create a command object, 
then calls its .Parameters.Refresh() method to query the interface to 
the stored procedure. This implies an extra server round trip, but I'm 
not about to start getting picky here.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/174223/EN-US/ helpfully remarks 
"""Parameters.refresh will fail in some situations or return information 
that is not entirely correct. Parameters.refresh is particularly 
vulnerable when used on ASP pages. Please query on "parameters.refresh" 
to find other articles that talk about some of the problems associated 
with Parameter.refresh.""" which gave me hope briefly.

I've managed, by inserting debugging prints, to determine the following 
information about the call I am making:

Trying strategy 1
Parameter count 6 : 5 parameters
Return value index 0
Ignoring return value parameter 0
Parameter 1 had direction input
Parameter 2 had direction input
Parameter 3 had direction input
Parameter 4 had direction input
Parameter 5 had direction input/output

So it looks as though that's not happening here. The return value 
parameter was a bit of a surprise, but the code seems to treat it 
correctly. Internally the callproc() method completes with

         if isStoredProcedureCall and parameters != None:
             return self._returnADOCommandParameters(self.cmd)

which iterates over the parameters, appending the value of each variant, 
converted to the correct Python type, to the returned list. Further 
debug prints show me:

Return value None stored and ignored
Appending parameter value 23
Appending parameter value http://www.holdenweb.com/
Appending parameter value Stored Procedures in Python
Appending parameter value How to handle databases with stored procedures
Appending parameter value [whatever was provided in the call].

So I'm forced to the conclusion that the SQL Server driver is for some 
reason not setting that output parameter (but I am by no means an ADO 
expert, having found out more about it in the last 24 hours than I 
really wanted :-).

If anyone can shed any further light on this I'll really be grateful.

scratching-my-head-ly y'rs  - steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From iketo2 at netscape.net  Sun Nov 21 00:05:05 2004
From: iketo2 at netscape.net (Isaac To)
Date: 21 Nov 2004 13:05:05 +0800
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <mailman.5272.1098381729.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm17og.ctwoqv17vkctxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<419EEEAA.D3C1046F@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6642.1100936758.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<87actcrhlo.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>
	<mailman.6647.1100967514.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87llcvssfy.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Terry" == Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:

    >> No, you don't quite understand what the OP is asking for.

    Terry>  you apparently did not do me the courtesy of reading my
    Terry> entire post, in which I quoted the question I answered.

I admit that I didn't read your mail very carefully when I write my
response.  I did that immediately afterwards, and my post didn't make
sense even to myself.  So I cancel that post a minute after making it,
although apparently my cancel posting didn't go as far as my response.

    Terry> The has NOTHING to do with writing base cases in recursive
    Terry> C++ template metaprogramming (which, ironically, uses the
    Terry> compiler as an interpreter).

I see no problem using the compiler as an interpreter.  Indeed, I
think C++ should make it more explicit and allow one to do things in
compile time as easily as one can do at run-time (e.g., why only
support integers, and why one have to do recursions instead of
loops?).  But this is a Python group, not a C++ group, so such things
are off-topic here.

    Terry> Although there may be other answers now and in the future,
    Terry> the answer I gave is the straightforward standard answer
    Terry> for Python today.

On the other hand, I didn't agree with this.  Your answer basically
said "define a member function called __mul__ for each class you
have", which I don't think is what the OP asked for.  First, nothing
in the original post said he wants the function to be used with
operator syntax, so __mul__ or other __xxx__ member functions should
be considered off-topic.  Second, the OP asked for "specialization",
and, as an example, asked for a way to cause the system "automatically
finds the right routine for [one type], and automatically call the
right code for [another type]".  Your answer involves defining a
method for each type one creates, which (1) is not automatic, and (2)
requires one to modify the class, which is not what is expected by a
C++ programmer who are used to template functions and specialization.

Template specialization is a dispatch mechanism that is external to a
class.  You probably mean "such mechanism is missing in Python".  I'm
not quite sure that is correct, though.

Regards,
Isaac.


From jarppe_remove_this_ at gmail.com  Tue Nov  2 06:50:33 2004
From: jarppe_remove_this_ at gmail.com (Jarppe)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 11:50:33 GMT
Subject: Calling python interpreter from a thread created in C
Message-ID: <dwKhd.29147$k4.563552@news1.nokia.com>

Hello,

What should I do to be able to call Pyhton interpreter from a posix 
thread that is created in C?

I have a C-library that creates a thread and then makes callbacks to 
user supplied function from that threads context. I'm writing a wrapper 
for this library and I need to call python interpreter from that callback.

I'm using Python 2.3 in Linux.

Any help appreciated.

-- 

-jarppe

   If you have the right attitude, interesting problems will find you.
       -- Eric Steven Raymond


From mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net  Mon Nov 29 16:52:45 2004
From: mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net (Jean Brouwers)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 21:52:45 GMT
Subject: using os
References: <mailman.6890.1101764022.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <291120041354230808%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>


Check the os.walk() and os.path.walk() functions.  More details and
some examples are at

  <http://docs.python.org/lib/os-file-dir.html>

resp.

  <http://docs.python.org/lib/module-os.path.html>


/Jean Brouwers



In article <mailman.6890.1101764022.5135.python-list at python.org>,
Juliano Freitas <jubafre at atlas.ucpel.tche.br> wrote:

> how can i get just the directories in other directorie without a files
> using the os module in Python??
> 
> 
> Juliano
> 
> 
>


From whereU at now.com  Mon Nov 15 03:45:00 2004
From: whereU at now.com (Eric Pederson)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:45:00 -0800
Subject: is there a tipping point for Python? [marketing]
In-Reply-To: <419862ea.99085647@news.oz.net>
References: <4195190f@pfaff2.ethz.ch> <10pc53ff798bhaa@news.supernews.com>
	<41962ca5.363205101@news.oz.net>
	<mailman.6365.1100482500.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<419862ea.99085647@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <20041115004500.931139446.whereU@now.com>

I'm seeing Python mentioned a bit more in "help wanted" job descriptions, reflecting, I suppose, a modicum of inroads Python is making into various development or IT environments.

As I contemplated a posted job for a friend who meets the requirements, save the mention of desired Python competence, it occurred to me that it would not be hard for him (a competent SW engineer) to become competent in Python; in fact, that's a real Python strong point.

If we see Python increasingly in help wanted ads, one might expect competent job seekers to take the week or two it would take to get waist deep in Python (or do I over-estimate: is it more like two days for a competent SW engineer to learn and get practiced in Python?)

Python is so easy to learn, it's a natural choice for someone wanting to gain a broader skillset; when breadth of language knowledge becomes important, Python is an easy target.  

If the pick-up of Python as an "extra" language becomes a trend, then I believe the tipping point will be reached, and a positive feedback loop will see the language adopted and employed much more widely, and blossom even further in the hands of a larger army of volunteers.


Of course, this would be the end of the IT world, for Python ruins one for programming in much of anything else.


... yes, I only smoke the good stuff.



What is a Perl?


Eric Pederson
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
domainNot="@something.com"
domainIs=domainNot.replace("s","z")
ePrefix="".join([chr(ord(x)+1) for x in "do"])
mailMeAt=ePrefix+domainIs
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::



From mesteve_bpleaseremovethis at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 15 21:20:07 2004
From: mesteve_bpleaseremovethis at hotmail.com (StvB)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 02:20:07 GMT
Subject: TreeNode  End of Editing Event
Message-ID: <rtdmd.44537$QJ3.18312@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

Hi,
  I just started implementing adding a new node to an existing tree.

In these statements, I add the node itself and  attach the
        "end of editing" event handler to the event
--------
id = self.tree.AppendItem(self.root,'New Item Node',-1,-1)
EVT_TREE_END_LABEL_EDIT(self.tree, treeID, self.OnEndEdit)
---------
 But when I respond to the EVT_TREE_END_LABEL_EDIT event, I don't get the 
new label when you change it:

 The event handler:
-------------
  def OnEndEdit(self,event):
        item=event.GetItem()
        s = self.tree.GetItemText(item)  # for debugging

------------

The 's' variable shows the original label (set above) which is 'New Item 
Node'.  Should it not show the new text after entering and then press Enter 
key?


Am I going about this the wrong way?









From tim.peters at gmail.com  Sun Nov 21 00:41:06 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 00:41:06 -0500
Subject: Rationals?
In-Reply-To: <slrncprssv.5v3.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
References: <x73bz7na6r.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<mailman.6526.1100749612.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<x7y8gzkpii.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<mailman.6570.1100822468.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncprssv.5v3.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <1f7befae04112021415ffc70cb@mail.gmail.com>

[Nick Craig-Wood]
...
> I'm personally more interested in the fixed point numbers rather than
> the rationals, and having played with various implementations of that
> concept recently, I can say that the new decimal module is by far the
> slowest, and gmpy is by far the fastest.
>
> Eg simplistic program to calculate 1000 decimal places of e :-
>
> gmpy.mpf            0.00271s
> FixedPointNcw.py    0.0118s (FixedPoint.py with simple mod for * by int)
> FixedPoint.py       0.358s
> decimal          1546.9s
> 
> People are going to come new to Python and see the decimal type and
> think - oh this looks ideal for high precision calculations, then get
> rather a shock!

When they do, point them at gmpy.

The decimal module's intent is to provide a complete and conforming
implementation of IBM's proposed standard for decimal arithmetic:

    http://www2.hursley.ibm.com/decimal/

gmpy doesn't aim at that.

> The GMP library upon which gmpy it is based
> 
>  http://www.swox.com/gmp/
> 
> is very portable and lovingly maintained by a team of experts ;-)

Yes, and I've been using it since before the world began <wink>.

> Why should python re-implement its own versions of what it does
> when it exists already in a usable (LGPL) format?

As above, GMP''s and decimal's goals have a tiny intersection.

>  In fact I'd go one further and suggest gmpy.mpz() should replace
> long().
...
> Anyway, I see from a bit of googling that python used to have an mpz
> module based on GMP in the stdlib, but it was dropped for some
> reason.  Probably the pain of external library dependencies in cross
> platfor code (a very familiar pain from my day to day working life!).

Nobody cared enough about mpz to support it, and people who cared
enough about GMP to want it were happy enough with the other Python
wrappers (gmpy and Marc-Andre Lemburg's mxNumber).  Or, at least, they
were happy enough that they didn't volunteer work on mpz.  We can only
distribute what people contribute.


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Thu Nov 18 07:57:01 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:57:01 +0200
Subject: PIL for Python 2.4?
Message-ID: <6r6pp018glonqu2kqeau5ru9nhfj9fpchv@4ax.com>

Has anyone built PIL (1.1.4 or 1.1.5) for Python 2.4?  If yes, please
let me know, since I can't test a couple of my apps using PIL with 2.4 .
You can even reply by email (yes, I dare use true email in newsgroup
postings, but then, I'm postmaster and welcome spam :)

TIA
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
"Tssss!" --Brad Pitt as Achilles in unprecedented Ancient Greek


From cabria at fta.uva.es  Thu Nov  4 13:56:35 2004
From: cabria at fta.uva.es (Iván Cabria)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 13:56:35 MET
Subject: sh: test: argument expected and /etc/passwd
Message-ID: <200411041256.iA4CuZ9q002858@relay.uva.es>

Hi,  
  
thanks to Mike Rovner for the answer.  
I did grep loginname /etc/passwd to confirm I was using bash, and the line I 
got ended with 
 
:/usr/bin/bash 
 
 
Ivan 




From pharmacy at prescriptionamerica.com  Mon Nov 22 10:06:36 2004
From: pharmacy at prescriptionamerica.com (pharmacy at prescriptionamerica.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:06:36 +0100
Subject: MDaemon Warning - virus found:  
Message-ID: <20041122150723.078931E4012@bag.python.org>


******************************* WARNING ******************************
Este mensaje ha sido analizado por MDaemon AntiVirus y ha encontrado 
un fichero anexo(s) infectado(s).  Por favor revise el reporte de abajo.

Attachment                    Virus name               Action taken
----------------------------------------------------------------------
document.zip                  I-Worm.Mydoom.m          Removed


**********************************************************************


The original message was received at Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:06:36 +0100
from prescriptionamerica.com [4.253.243.72]

----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<python-list at python.org>

----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to 157.123.81.221:
>>> DATA
<<< 400-aturner; %MAIL-E-OPENOUT, error opening !AS as output
<<< 400-aturner; -RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed
<<< 400-aturner; -SYSTEM-F-EXDISKQUOTA, disk quota exceeded
<<< 400


From awalczak at pit.edu.pl  Tue Nov  9 09:18:02 2004
From: awalczak at pit.edu.pl (Andrzej Walczak)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 15:18:02 +0100
Subject: Calling prolog from Python ?
Message-ID: <1100009882.21033.8.camel@kasandra.pit.edu.pl>

Dear all,

I am looking for an interface to call SWI-Prolog from python which is my
prototyping language. So far the best API looks to have pyprolog 0.2.0
from Nathan Denny. Code is a bit dated and I am unable to use it (see my
post to SWI Prolog mailing list dated Oct. 29th). 

Does anyone knows a currently working solution ??


Andrzej 




From kdahlhaus at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 15 14:10:47 2004
From: kdahlhaus at yahoo.com (Kevin Dahlhausen)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 11:10:47 -0800
Subject: Pthreads and Extension Modules on Linux
Message-ID: <283adf56.0411151110.6415e5fb@posting.google.com>

I've been playing with pySonic on unix.   PySonic is pyrex wrapper
around the fmod  sound library.  Fmod is distributed as a shared
library that uses pthreads.  I am getting a segfault when a stream
stops playing, at this point I've been able to determine only that the
segfault is from a semaphore message in the pthread library.

Native C++ code solution works fine, so it is some interaction between
python->pySonic shared lib extension->fmod shared lib.

Is anyone aware of any issues or special compiler settings when
building an extension (shared lib) that depends on another shared lib
that uses pthreads?


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Nov  1 09:30:44 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 08:30:44 -0600
Subject: How to use python in matlab
In-Reply-To: <8f17f4bc.0410291738.2f3708b8@posting.google.com>
	(alikakakhel3@hotmail.com's
	message of "29 Oct 2004 18:38:37 -0700")
References: <8f17f4bc.0410291738.2f3708b8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3fz3tr697.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "Ali" == Ali  <alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com> writes:

    Ali> How to use python in matlab?  --

Could you be more explicit about what you want to do - do you want to
call a python script from within a matlab shell?

Note that python offers many tools which enable you to *replace*
matlab with python.  See

Numeric  - array package with many matlab element wise operations and
           functions - http://numpy.sourceforge.net/

numarray - the same but with enhanced indexing, better support for
           large arrays and
           more. http://www.stsci.edu/resources/software_hardware/numarray

matplotlib - 2D plotting with matlab syntax -
             http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/

scipy - a vast collection of numeric tools, including support for
        loading and saving mat files - http://www.scipy.org

and much more....

JDH


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Mon Nov  1 20:21:15 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 17:21:15 -0800
Subject: Why is heapify linear?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5792.1099356329.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <4186cb77$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<mailman.5792.1099356329.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4186e5f9$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Tim Peters wrote:
> There are no hands waving.  Dict-building is best-case and
> expected-case linear time, but worst-case quadratic time.  For
> heapification, all three are linear.  That's all rigorously provable
> (and typically are so proved in a first course on algorithmic
> complexity).  Google on
> 
>     heapify linear
> 
> to find proofs for heapification bounds.  But you perhaps won't
> *believe* it until you can't deny it <wink>.  So try it:
I stupidly took a simple look before posting, and a better look
immediately after posting.  I feel really stupid for that and
deserve the big clue stick whack.

The "hand wave" on dict building is because I am still stuck in the
sad old world where, when we said O(1), we meant "worst case linear."
I am sure you remember those times.  The "expected-case" or "amortized-
time" silent, rather than stated, still bothers me, not so much in an
irritated way, as in a "my mind still doesn't notice" way.

> ... Note that "the obvious" way to transform a list into a heap is not
> worst-case linear time.  Linear-time heapification is due to Floyd.
This is the bit I didn't notice, and so my knee-jerk from the "obvious"
way -- essentially a half-sort.  As pennance I should read Floyd's paper
(CACM 7, p701, 1964).


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sun Nov  7 12:28:27 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 12:28:27 -0500
Subject: Python OS
In-Reply-To: <cmldu9$a72$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmin1n$500$02$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6003.1099752590.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmiorc$j4b$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6021.1099783808.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmk7r1$4d0$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>	<mailman.6059.1099837930.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmldu9$a72$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <418E5B3B.9070204@cloudthunder.com>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

>>Are you so sure of this Peter?  It certainly seems that this might be
>>possible but as you point out, if one uses Python for _time critical_
>>interrupts, the code will not live up to the _time critical_ aspect.
>>Indeed, I agree and never said otherwise.  I could case less if it is
>>extremely slow as speed or even usability was not my aim (I never
>>indicated such either and in fact, I indicated otherwise by utilizing
>>such terms as _virtual_ and _prototype_  [As Jeremy bravely points out] ).
>>    
>>
>
>
>I did not only mention the timing aspect, but also the GIL (Global
>Interpretor Lock) aspect of a python-coded interrupt routine. That renders
>python useless in such a case as it causes a deadlock.
>  
>
I am ignorant in these respects, but deadlocks do not sound like a good 
thing (contrary to what Martha would say).

>I've had my share of embedded programming on various cores with variying
>degrees of OS already available to me, as well as low-lever assembly
>hacking on old 68k-machines as the amiga. My feeble attempts on task
>schedulers and the like don't qualify as OS, but the teached me about the
>difficulties that arise when trying to cope with data structure integritiy
>in a totally asynchronous event like an interrupt. 
>
>All that stuff has to be so low-level and carefully adjusted to timing
>requirements that python is ruled out there- sometimes even C doesn't make
>up for it.
>
>  
>
Do you mean that there are no entirely C OSs?

>Thats what I had in mind when answering your question.
>
>  
>
Understood, however, note the terms prototype and virtual.  Perhaps I 
could create virtual hardware where needed, and play around with the 
timing issues in this manner (emulate them and create solutions 
prototyped in Python).


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 11:45:31 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:45:31 GMT
Subject: pre-PEP generic objects
In-Reply-To: <slrncqoio4.1uu.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
References: <a8Oqd.110119$V41.14593@attbi_s52>
	<slrncqoio4.1uu.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <Ks1rd.590425$mD.25714@attbi_s02>

Nick Craig-Wood wrote:
> Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I promised I'd put together a PEP for a 'generic object' data type for 
>> Python 2.5 that allows one to replace __getitem__ style access with 
>> dotted-attribute style access (without declaring another class).  Any 
>> comments would be appreciated!
> 
> My experience from using this is that whenever I used Hash(), I found
> that later on in the refinement of the conversion it became its own
> class.

This has also generally been my experience, though I'm not sure it's as 
true for the XML DOM to Bunch translation.  Did you use Hash() in the 
same way for hierarchical data?

> So my take on the matter is that this encourages perl style
> programming (just ram it in a hash, and write lots of functions acting
> on it) rather than creating a specific class for the job which is dead
> easy in python anyway and to which you can attach methods etc.

You'll note that the (pre-)PEP explicitly notes that this object is 
intended only for use when no methods are associated with the attributes:

"When no methods are to be associated with the attribute-value mappings,
declaring a new class can be overkill."

I do understand your point though -- people might not use Bunch in the 
way it's intended.  Of course, those same people can already do the same 
thing with a dict instead (e.g. write a bunch of functions to handle a 
certain type of dict).  If someone wants to write Perl in Python, 
there's not much we can really do to stop them...

Steve


From esj at harvee.org  Sat Nov  6 10:12:30 2004
From: esj at harvee.org (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 10:12:30 -0500
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <418CE9DE.2060606@harvee.org>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Hans Nowak <hans at zephyrfalcon.org> wrote:
> 
> 
>>John Machin wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Or is this a joke/troll?? I can't believe the "unimelb.edu.au"; surely
>>>a forgery.
>>
>>Is it just me, or is the climate in c.l.py getting less friendly to 
>>newbies?  In any case, 
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, I sort of share your perception -- and I have
> noticed the same thing, and seen it remarked upon by others, in other,
> completely unrelated newsgroups as well, such as it.comp.macintosh.

I think it can be explained by donor fatigue.

I've experienced this on a couple of projects where the initial 
developers/intellectual foundation are very helpful and a lot of work 
and they get burned out.  The Next Generation comes along and doesn't 
quite know enough to be able to handout ready answers but tries real 
hard and get frustrated.  Users get frustrated and then as you point 
out, the clueless twits start dominating the conversation.  Sort of an 
intellectual approximation of Gresham's law.

I know from my perspective, I have been reluctant to really talk much 
about what I've done with Python in developing the camram anti-spam 
system because of fatigue of a different type.  It is a radically 
different system and the very odd thing is that ordinary users get it in 
a heartbeat and many technologists fight it with every fiber of their being.

so as a result, I ask questions trying to describe the abstract case of 
what I'm trying to do so that I don't get distracted down a rathole of 
defending the application.  Needless to say, I suspect others are doing 
the same thing and it's really really hard to describe the abstract case 
in a way that's clear.

now I'm going to throw out another radical idea for dealing with donor 
fatigue: I will argue that we might want to start including in the 
headers of mailing list/newsgroups a dana reference.  If you are 
familiar with Buddhist culture, dana is an expression of generosity.  A 
gift given in response to a priceless lesson.  There is no expectation 
giving and there is no expectation of receiving. 
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dana.html  therefore, with a dana 
header, someone who is happy with the answer to a question could gift 
some money to the recipient.

I'll argue that some form of compensation system is necessary to help 
combat donor fatigue.  We all live for reward stimuli be it money, sex, 
chocolate.  Compulsory "pay for the answer" systems don't work well 
because you have no assurance that you'll get an answer you can use. 
The flip side "pay for the cheapest answer that meets your needs" does 
not encourage participation because it's usually a financial race to the 
bottom.  I think the middle path of Dana is the most likely to succeed 
although it won't make anybody rich.  You contribute and maybe somebody 
will thank you for it.  You'll know that it was given in the spirit of 
generosity and kindness, not because of a contractual requirement.

another advantage of this idea is that it builds on the existing 
infrastructure of mailing lists and newsgroups not a walled garden of a 
web site somewhere.

There are some challenges connecting the dana id to financial systems 
and e-mail/news clients.  But these are known problems with solutions 
and with tools like Thunderbird, we can easily make modifications and 
make them available.

---eric



From as006d4848 at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Nov 22 16:56:17 2004
From: as006d4848 at blueyonder.co.uk (Philip Smith)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:56:17 GMT
Subject: SWIG
Message-ID: <5gtod.21561$08.16414@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

Does anyone use SWIG?????

I'm having trouble patching it to allow me to compile wrappers in Borland 
C++ Builder because Borland will insist on adding underscores to symbols. 
Turn this off and it won't link the Python library.

The answer is to declare init_function and any other exported functions as 
__stdcall.  Easy enough to patch the SWIG file for the init_function but I 
can't for the life of me see how to automate this process for other exports. 
Any ideas??

Phil 




From theller at python.net  Fri Nov 26 02:52:58 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 08:52:58 +0100
Subject: copytree if directory exists
References: <pan.2004.11.25.13.31.38.635077@thomas-guettler.de>
	<co5jm2$mha$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <k6s9t5b9.fsf@python.net>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Thomas Guettler wrote:
>> I need to copy a directory into an existing directory.
>> shutil.copytree does complain that the directory already
>> exists.
>> I need something like "cp -rp": Copy recursively, overwrite
>> if file already exist. Preserve mtime and modes if possible.
>> A keyword argument "may_exist=1" for shutil.copytree would be nice.
>
> Thomas, shutil.copytree is written in pure Python.  Grab the
> source and stick in the appropriate exception handling around
> the call to os.mkdir() and you should have about what you
> need...

Also, distutils.dir_util has a fairly flexible copy_tree function.

Thomas


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Nov 15 20:58:41 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:58:41 -0800
Subject: save a dictionary in a file
In-Reply-To: <10piklanchlkm42@corp.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.6393.1100558555.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10piklanchlkm42@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20041115175500.F948.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
> 
> Josiah Carlson wrote:
> 
> >Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
> >  
> >
> >>Luis P. Mendes wrote:
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>my program builds a dictionary that I would like to save in a file.
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>As others have said, there should be no reason to convert to a list 
> >>before pickling -- AFAIK, there's no ban against pickling dictionaries.
> >>
> >>You might also look into the Shelve module, which implements a 
> >>filesystem-persisting object with dictionary access syntax.  (And which, 
> >>IIRC, uses pickled dictionaries under the covers.)
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >It doesn't.  It uses a bsddb database.
> >
> >A bsddb (really anydbm which can give you bsddb) database is merely a
> >string key->string value mapping (for btree and hash mappings). You
> >access it via string keys, and its values are automatically translated
> >to/from strings via Pickle. The only way you actually pickle and
> >unpickle dictionaries is by having a dictionary in a value.
> >  
> >
> 
> Ah, my mistake.  (I've never really had call to use shelve *or* pickle, 
> and was going off of (apparently erroneous) memories of conversations in 
> c.l.py.) 
> 
> Still, it does seem that shelve would probably fit the O.P.'s needs...

It depends on how much reading and writing to/from the dictionary is
done.  For many reads, a caching shelve instance works well, but ends up
creating an in-memory copy anyways.  When writing, one needs to be
careful of the number of writes and how long it takes to update the
shelve instance, and whether one wants a bunch of writes to the instance
done during close.

 - Josiah



From as006d4848 at blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Nov 17 04:02:49 2004
From: as006d4848 at blueyonder.co.uk (Philip Smith)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:02:49 GMT
Subject: linking the python library
Message-ID: <ZsEmd.52922$Q7.16276@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

I have tried compiling extension modules for python using pyrex and swig and 
both mingw and sygwin gcc under windows32

Unfortunately whatever I try the compilers fail to link python23.lib as 
specified under gcc -L option - I just get a string of "undefined 
references" to Python builtins.

Anyone know why? 




From and-google at doxdesk.com  Wed Nov 24 06:08:22 2004
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 03:08:22 -0800
Subject: cgi.FieldStorage() is slow
References: <mailman.6402.1100584911.5135.python-list@python.org>	<2c60a528.0411170547.2c68392@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6731.1101245463.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0411240308.43967cf5@posting.google.com>

Nehal Mistry <nehalmistry at gmx.net> wrote:

> nevertheless, it will put a greater load on the CPU, which may be
> an issue for many servers.

It certainly was for the ricketty old SPARC box we were trying to
upload umpteen-MB files to! Probably not so critical for most people
these days though.

> it would not be a good idea to put Andrew's form.py in the
> official python distribution and have 2 different modules for
> processing CGI.

Fully agree. In any case the current interface is not general enough
for std lib use.

> either it would have to somehow merged into CGI
> module, and keeping backward compatibility

If there is interest I could certainly look at providing a cgi-alike
interface to the new version. Personally I was not aiming at the
standard library.

cheers,

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/


From jean-louis.nespoulous at vatech-td.fr  Tue Nov 23 02:40:46 2004
From: jean-louis.nespoulous at vatech-td.fr (Jean-Louis Nespoulous)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 23:40:46 -0800
Subject: Help for newbie
References: <419f06a8$0$32335$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<slrncq1so1.4m6.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
	<41a10093$0$4569$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<slrncq4gtd.5s1.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <39eca62c.0411222340.35d1c80f@posting.google.com>

Thank you very much, but I will use ZODB as a server, and from a
distance client I'll get and save objetcts with XML-RPC. Do you think
it will be ok?

Jean-Louis

Dave Cook <davecook at nowhere.net> wrote in message news:<slrncq4gtd.5s1.davecook at localhost.localdomain>...
> On 2004-11-21, Leuk <jlnespoulous at netscape.net> wrote:
> > Thanks very much for your information
> > But I would like to know how I'll write and retreive my objets when my 
> > system will be written in Java. At what time or how I'll switch to Python.
> 
> Are you planning on using Jython?  
> 
> http://www.jython.org
> 
> In that case, you might want to find a Java solution that you can use with
> Jython.  I've used hibernate + hsql from Jython, but that may be overkill
> for your application.
> 
> Dave Cook


From valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk  Fri Nov 19 23:27:05 2004
From: valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk (Valkyrie)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 12:27:05 +0800
Subject: Question about thread
In-Reply-To: <cnlp2u$sj3$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
References: <1100875373.911763@eng-ser6>
	<306ic5F2svtsdU1@uni-berlin.de>	<1100879122.755150@eng-ser4>
	<mailman.6607.1100881214.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cnlmt0$jea$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<cnlnj3$vbq$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cnlp2u$sj3$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <1100924820.575312@eng-ser4>

So may I ask is threading do exactly the same in terms of functionalities as 
those in thread?


Jarek Zgoda wrote:
> Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> 
>>> Even after printing "finished creating threads" all spawned threads
>>> continue its execution up to final "thread nnnn is being destroyed", so
>>> I think there's no need to take any special action (unless it's Python
>>> on iSeries, buy this is another story) to wait for completion.
>>
>>
>> The OP used the module "thread", while you used "threading" and didn't 
>> set
>> setDaemon(False). Then python waits until all threads are finished.
> 
> 
> Well... I was bit too fast in replying. ;)
> 
>> From the thread module docs:
>>
>> When the main thread exits, it is system defined whether the other 
>> threads
>> survive. On SGI IRIX using the native thread implementation, they 
>> survive.
>> On most other systems, they are killed without executing try ... finally
>> clauses or executing object destructors.   
> 
> 
> So it looks that using threading should be preferred over using thread, 
> as presented example works identically on Windows and on linux (it 
> doesn't work on AS/400, though...).
> 


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Fri Nov 19 22:05:04 2004
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:05:04 -0600
Subject: Pythonic list to bitflag mapping
In-Reply-To: <76c29906.0411191647.4b135e06@posting.google.com>
References: <76c29906.0411191647.4b135e06@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200411192105.05342.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Friday 19 November 2004 06:47 pm, Ramon Felciano wrote:
> a = [3,4,6]
> b = [0,0,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,0] # a 1 for each position in the a list
[...] 
> I can do this with loops etc, but was curious if there isn't a python
> one-liner or list comprehension way of doing it. What I'd like to
> write is something like the following:
> 
> [1 if x in a else 0 for x in range(10)]

[x in a for x in range(10)]

Though this will return boolean True/False values in Python 2.3+ and
an int in earlier versions.  However conditional operations will work
on either, so your code may tolerate this.

If you must have 0 and 1 though, you can use:

[(x in a and 1 or 0) for x in range(10)]

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Thu Nov 25 14:07:18 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 20:07:18 +0100
Subject: Problem with registry under WIN XP ? :-((
References: <slrnfa00000cq3tdp.6b9b.pbouige@electre.pasteur.fr>
	<cnt8v9$mfg$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
Message-ID: <1xtk83dvu1br3.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Michele Petrazzo (2004-11-22 18:48 +0100)
> Philippe Bouige wrote:
>> Hello,
>> 
>>      After install de Zope under WINXP, I have not problem
>>      with zope but it's not possible install module for
>>      my version python 2.3... The message is :
>>      "Python version 2.3 required, which was not found
>>      registry"... but I have python23 !!! How to modify
>>      registry ?
>> 
>>               Thank you very much for your help
> 
> Try to re-install python.

Zope doesn't /install/ Python (in the Windows sense). He should
install Python and adjust the registry settings so they point to the
Zope Python - or install the packets from the command line. It's
really trivial.


From danperl at rogers.com  Tue Nov  2 19:58:10 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 19:58:10 -0500
Subject: pickling a dict
References: <783d0f8c.0411012330.4172d1d4@posting.google.com><pan.2004.11.02.08.46.20.216993@gmx.de><20041102083027.F7CC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5850.1099438033.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jp-dnZcQn6m6sBXcRVn-qg@rogers.com>

First of all, your posting shows up as part of the "Newbie question" thread 
and not as a new thread.  You probably replied or followed up to a posting 
in that thread and you only changed the subject line.  Please don't do that.

Now, without your particular data, I personally cannot figure out why your 
script takes such a long time to load.  But I can say that your code and 
your use of pickle seem fine.  It shouldn't take minutes though, I have a 
script that loads a pickled file of about 15 Mb and it only takes seconds.

Are you sure that the bottleneck is in the pickle.load calls and not in your 
other functions (setVerticesDict, setEdgesDict, and setTrajectoryDict)? 
Have you profiled your script or did you try to insert something like a 
"print time.ctime(time.time())" statement in a few strategic places to find 
out whether pickle or the other functions are the bottleneck?

BTW, does your save( ) function also take minutes?  If it takes much less 
than the open( ) function, my guess would be that pickle is not the problem.

Dan

"andrea valle" <andrea.valle at unito.it> wrote in message 
news:mailman.5850.1099438033.5135.python-list at python.org...
I was saving on a file three dicts, for a total of ca. 950 keys (that
is: 24 kb).

In order to reopen the file,  first I read the three lines and used on
each eval(item).
This rude approach worked: but it took me some minutes to load the data.
So I used pickle (and also cPickle) supposing it should be much more
efficient. But it takes exactly the same.
Is it normal?

When I manipulate the loaded data ad draw the on screen the updated
result, everything is very fast.

  This are my two methods bound to a tk view:

     def save(self, event):
         # first approach
         ## self.file = file("/Graph/default.gra", "w")
         ## self.file.write(str(self.model.verticesDict)+"\n")
         ## self.file.write(str(self.model.edgesDict)+"\n")
         ## self.file.write(str(self.model.trajectoryDict)+"\n")
         ## self.file.close()
         self.file= file("/Graph/pickle.gra", "w")
         pickle.dump(self.model.verticesDict, self.file)
         pickle.dump(self.model.edgesDict, self.file)
         pickle.dump(self.model.trajectoryDict, self.file)
         self.file.close()

     def open(self, event):
         # first approach
         ## self.file = file("/Graph/default.gra", "r")
         ## verticesDict = eval(self.file.next())
         ## edgesDict = eval(self.file.next())
         ## trajectoryDict = eval(self.file.next())
         self.file = file("/Graph/pickle.gra", "r")
         verticesDict = pickle.load(self.file)
         edgesDict = pickle.load(self.file)
         trajectoryDict = pickle.load(self.file)
         self.model.setVerticesDict(verticesDict)
         self.model.setEdgesDict(edgesDict)
         self.model.setTrajectoryDict(trajectoryDict)

Am I using pickle in a bad way?
Or am I making some other mistake?

Thanks

-a-



Andrea Valle
Laboratorio multimediale "G. Quazza"
Facolt? di Scienze della Formazione
Universit? degli Studi di Torino
andrea.valle at unito.it 




From osuchw at ecn.ab.ca  Tue Nov  9 23:47:10 2004
From: osuchw at ecn.ab.ca (Waldemar Osuch)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 04:47:10 GMT
Subject: Getting Windows computer system info
In-Reply-To: <93c5215b.0411090947.a955001@posting.google.com>
References: <93c5215b.0411090947.a955001@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <i3hkd.168552$nl.25104@pd7tw3no>

Bolin wrote:
> I was wondering how to get some system info from a PC running Windows
> in python. 

For ease of use nothing beats Tim Golden's wmi package:
http://tgolden.sc.sabren.com/python/wmi.html

But one can do the same stuff using Mark Hammond's pywin32
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pywin32/

Check out <python install>Lib\site-packages\win32\demos folder for examples


From k2riddim at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 05:35:43 2004
From: k2riddim at gmail.com (k2riddim)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 02:35:43 -0800
Subject: Problem with tkinter mainloop
Message-ID: <e45f2bb3.0411300235.5c9b8d22@posting.google.com>

Hello,
I'm a beginner with Python and Tkinter development.
My application parse links in an html file. And I use Tkinter to
implement a GUI. This GUI has a button to launch the parse treatment,
and a status bar to show the state of the treatment.
I know that because of the mainloop, my tkinter application freeze
while my treatment isn't finished. That's why my status bar doesn't
update herself in real time.
I wanted to use the after or the after_idle function, but I don't
really understand why it doesn't work.

My apps is build approximately like that :

---Gui.py---
class Gui(Frame):
        def __init__(self):
                ...
        def launchTreatment(self):
               b = Treatment()
               self.after(b.treatment.parse)

---Treatment.py---
class Treatment():
        def __init__(self):
                ...
        def parse(self):
               ...
               GUIinstance.status.set("state 1")
               ...
               GUIinstance.status.set("state 2")


---Main.py---
#instanciation of classes
GUIinstance = Gui
GUIinstance.mainloop()

Any help will be very appreciated, excuse my english, this is not my
native language as you can see.


From nick at craig-wood.com  Tue Nov 30 05:30:03 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 10:30:03 GMT
Subject: pre-PEP generic objects
References: <a8Oqd.110119$V41.14593@attbi_s52>
Message-ID: <slrncqoio4.1uu.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
>  I promised I'd put together a PEP for a 'generic object' data type for 
>  Python 2.5 that allows one to replace __getitem__ style access with 
>  dotted-attribute style access (without declaring another class).  Any 
>  comments would be appreciated!

This sounds very much like this class which I've used to convert perl
programs to python

class Hash:
    def __init__(self, **kwargs):
        for key,value in kwargs.items():
            setattr(self, key, value)
    def __getitem__(self, x):
        return getattr(self, x)
    def __setitem__(self, x, y):
        setattr(self, x, y)

My experience from using this is that whenever I used Hash(), I found
that later on in the refinement of the conversion it became its own
class.

So my take on the matter is that this encourages perl style
programming (just ram it in a hash, and write lots of functions acting
on it) rather than creating a specific class for the job which is dead
easy in python anyway and to which you can attach methods etc.

YMMV ;-)

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Nov 23 16:18:31 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 13:18:31 -0800
Subject: protocols, inheritance and polymorphism
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>
	<Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<YWKod.137814$HA.44609@attbi_s01>
	<donn-F6A9D8.11153623112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<tqadnT2kAIXJEj7cRVn-hA@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <donn-F39B72.13183123112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <tqadnT2kAIXJEj7cRVn-hA at rogers.com>,
 "Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote:

> "Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message 
> news:donn-F6A9D8.11153623112004 at gnus01.u.washington.edu...
> > In article <YWKod.137814$HA.44609 at attbi_s01>,
> > Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
...
> >> The point here is that I'm using isinstance here because I *know* there
> >> are objects out there that, unlike Bunch objects, may have 'attributes'
> >> not stored in their __dict__, and I *know* they might get passed to
> >> Bunch.update.  Since I can't appropriately support their use, I want the
> >> user to be notified of this (with the TypeError).
...
> > I don't really see that isinstance() was necessary in principle
> > here.  Not that it makes any difference to me, but it looks like
> > you created this problem by defining these semantics in Bunch
> > but failing to assign any identifiable attribute - we could in
> > principle make another unrelated class "quack like a Bunch",
> > but we'd have no way to inform your update function of this.
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by an "identifiable attribute", but I think we 
> are going back to an issue I pointed out in another posting in this thread. 
> It makes a huge difference whether your code is something that only you are 
> using and changing during the next few weeks or it's an off-the-shelf 
> library that will be maintained and changed for years from now and will be 
> used by many clients.  What is "identifiable" to you (or even to someone in 
> the next cubicle) for the next few weeks may not be identifiable a few years 
> from now or to someone who downloaded your module from the web.

I wasn't really worried about people yet.  Perhaps I should have
said more simply that there is no attribute, period, for this.
Instead, in effect, the (base) class itself is used as that attribute.
That's an unnecessary limitation, because we can easily support
the required semantics from an unrelated class.

I must have missed your post, but I infer that you're claiming that
subtype polymorphism is easier to comprehend.  It wouldn't have
occurred to me.  I do think the current situation is a little
defective when it comes to reasoning about complicated code, but
I don't think subtyping is a very obvious way to define interfaces.
On one hand, it obviously isn't true that all objects that might
support an interface must inherit that support from a common base,
and it also isn't true that all objects derived from a common base
reliably support that interface.  How easy would it be to inherit
from "Bunch" and add some feature that confounds that function we
saw earlier with the isinstance()?

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Nov 13 10:07:22 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 10:07:22 -0500
Subject: problem with "setup.py bdist --formats=zip"
In-Reply-To: <yGgld.59250$km5.2395990@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <cn2mhg$476$1@nrc-news.nrc.ca>
	<cn406e$bcp$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<yGgld.59250$km5.2395990@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <cn57vg$2jc$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

HumbdyDum wrote:
> Peter Hansen wrote:
>> you'll find that the installer has an option to install for the
>> current user only, so that you don't have to be an Administrator
>> to do it.
> 
> Really? I've installed several (like Numeric etc) and looked but never 
> seen that option, I must be blind. Actually, I remember clearly that 
> they always say, after being started, something like "You don't have 
> sufficient priviledge, you must be administrator". I'll take another 
> look. Thanks,

I'm talking about the Python installer itself, not installers
for other things.  Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant
when you said you wanted to create a binary distribution.
I assumed you meant "of Python".


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Nov  2 20:35:15 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 20:35:15 -0500
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
In-Reply-To: <1099428292.622129.83160@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
	<du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<4187b7a1$0$2383$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<QtOdnVh_Pq7-SRrcRVn-2g@speakeasy.net>
	<1099428292.622129.83160@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <IGWhd.30795$SW3.15750@fed1read01>

Graham Fawcett wrote:

> A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> 
>>And it should be noted I can already install Python packages with
>>dependencies by running a command such as "apt-get install
>>python2.3-gnome2", for example.
> 
> 
> Great point. Collectively, apt-get, yum et. al. and the underlying
> package models will get far more development time, more polishing and
> more real-world use than a PyPAN ever would.
> 
> Perhaps what Python needs is for Win32 to grow a working apt-get...;-)
> -- G
> 
And don't I remember that yum is written in ... Python?

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Wed Nov  3 19:55:34 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 00:55:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmp6xu.zmiw6gs3250sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041104T014520-18@post.gmane.org>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit <at> yahoo.com> writes:
>
> Steven Bethard <steven.bethard <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On the other hand, I haven't really seen any good
> > cases for wanting weak-typing in a statically-typed language either.
> 
> How would an operating system's filesystems store arbitrary sequences of
> bytes (which might be floats, int, whatever -- only the application
> knows) into disk pages (blocks of, say , 4096 bytes each) otherwise?

Valid point of course.  But the OS doesn't really take advantage of weak-typing
here if it takes an arbitrary sequence of bytes and stores an arbitrary sequence
of bytes.  I haven't written much OS code (just a prototype system back in
undergrad), but I never cast one type of struct to another -- to and from void*,
but never between types.

Of course, I'm sure there're are a number of good reasons to do so -- my claim
was only that I hadn't seen them.  I'd be grateful if you could point me to an
example.  =)

> Even if you design a new OS based on a filesystem whose files are all
> "strongly typed"

You really do think I'm satan, don't you? ;)

Steve




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 28 19:56:11 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 01:56:11 +0100
Subject: protocols, inheritance and polymorphism
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>
	<Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<YWKod.137814$HA.44609@attbi_s01>
	<donn-F6A9D8.11153623112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<tqadnT2kAIXJEj7cRVn-hA@rogers.com>
	<donn-F39B72.13183123112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<mqedndyH_YCYUT7cRVn-uQ@rogers.com>
	<donn-D778C1.17100223112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<786dnYZkrq-ieT7cRVn-tw@rogers.com> <1101273995.954137@yasure>
	<s4qdnUDCJoJ9vjncRVn-hA@rogers.com>
	<tyfhdnefhcf.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<41a6340f$0$307$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1gnzp1s.lzu0o7luslhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Christophe Cavalaria <chris.cavalaria at free.fr> wrote:

> If your programs need that much dynamic_cast to work, then your programs are
> bad.

Wrong.  Look at the absolute mess that the Visitor design pattern is,
and how Robert Martin made it much less horrible by turning it into
Dynamic Visitor -- which needs so much dynamic_cast it hurts.

In Java, you're dynamic_cast'ing all of the time in a totally obscure
way, each time you're pulling stuff out of a containter.

    SomeSillyType foo = (SomeSillyType) (mycontainer.getsomething());

since the container's method returns Object, the cast is dynamic -- only
checked at runtime.  C++, and the latest Java, give up OO in favour of
another paradigm (generic programming) to deal with this, and if this
isn't an admission that their "static" (ha!) typesystem doesn't work
with OOP properly, I don't know what would count as one.

> Besides, it's easy to do a 'safe' dynamic_cast, just assert that the
> pointer you get isn't 0 after the cast.

or catch the dynamically generated exception in Java's case, sure.  You
can "easily" implement what a decent language would have in the first
place... except that co-variance and counter-variance continue to dog
every effort to make a decent "static OOP typesystem", of course...:-)


Alex


From tim.ronning at start.no  Sun Nov 21 11:51:55 2004
From: tim.ronning at start.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Tim_R=F8nning?=)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:51:55 +0100
Subject: Small Database Needed
References: <mailman.6669.1101048884.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <opshtqgtnr38clfj@buktu1>

Gadfly!

rgds
Tim R.

P? Sun, 21 Nov 2004 06:54:40 -0800 (PST), skrev Kevin McBrearty  
<kmcbrearty at yahoo.com>:

> Hello All,
>
> I'm looking at implementing DB in my program for
> analysis of CAD (STL Files).  This database will
> require the basic functionality.
>
> Query
> Sort
> Delete/Add Records
>
>
> I did some looking at the DB packages out there. But,
> I'm not interseted in setuping up some huge thing.  It
> would be great if it is fast, but I can live with a
> sub-optimal solution for the present.  My interest is
> in getting it up and running.
>
> Since, I'm new to Python so please don't hold back on
> the comments.
>
> Regards,
>         Kevin

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/


From claird at lairds.us  Fri Nov  5 10:08:03 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 15:08:03 GMT
Subject: Python for 8/16 Bit MSDOS ( 486 / 586 / K5 / K6/ Beck-IPC )
 processors.
References: <418B6158.3C7BD9B1@iee.lu> <y8hgv6h3.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <fgfs52-htl.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <y8hgv6h3.fsf at python.net>,
Thomas Heller  <theller at python.net> wrote:
>Manfred Schwab <msw at iee.lu> writes:
>
>> Hi there,
>> which versions of python are usable under MS-DOS 5.0 oder 6.22 or Dr.
>> DOS.
>>
>> I want to use it under a industrial environment to collect measuring
>> data like temperature, moist and signalconditions with a Beck industrial
>> PC. Did somebody try this already ? Is there a certain URL where i can
>> get further information.
>
>I severely doubt the Beck-IPC has enough memory for that.
>
>Thomas

I like the challenges of working with unusual hosts.  Let's 
go through this a bit more slowly.

I have no doubt that getting 2.3 to work on a Beck is ...
quixotic.  However, there are a lot of alternatives.  Earlier,
smaller versions of Python were thriftier with memory (or per-
haps less ambitious).  If the goal is enough Python to collect
data as you describe, you might well be able to generate your
own Python from a 1.2 or 1.3 series that works adequately.

Does anyone maintain a museum of old Pythons?  These turn out
to be both valuable and relatively modest in effort.  I have
too many other unfinished projects now to launch another ...

If you're simply looking for a good way to do development on
a Beck, several other languages (Lua, TinyTcl, Forth, ...)
are likely both to fit and to satisfy at least most of your
affection for high-level programming.


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Sun Nov 21 01:21:20 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 01:21:20 -0500
Subject: thread.error: release unlocked lock
In-Reply-To: <cnjn63$2rff$1@netnews.upenn.edu>
References: <cniqlj$2cqj$1@netnews.upenn.edu>
	<mailman.6568.1100820402.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cnjn63$2rff$1@netnews.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <1f7befae041120222152e96735@mail.gmail.com>

[John P.Speno]
>>> I'm using the classic Python thread model. Main thread puts stuff
>>> into a Queue.Queue() and worker threads get stuff out of it and do
>>> their thing.

[Tim Peters]
>> A bounded queue or an unbounded queue?  Blocking get/put or
>> non-blocking get/put?  About how many items are in the queue?
>>  Since nobody has reported your symptom before, some detail or
>> other is going to be important.

[John]
> Thanks for asking. Here's what I can tell you.
>
> Unbounded queues with non-blocking get/put.

That's odd -- non-blocking put doesn't really make sense with an
unbounded queue, esp. when only one thread does put().  It will work
anyway, it's just peculiar.

So if the queue is unbounded, the put() method is the only code
anywhere that acquires or releases fsema.  That simplifies analysis,
but only in that it leads most directly to the conclusion that it's
impossible to get the error you're seeing.  The candidates remaining
are things like compiler optimization bugs, buggy platform threads,
buggy C extension modules.

You should really file a bug report, on Python's SourceForge tracker
-- there's already too much detail to keep straight in
email/newsgroup.

> At most there are 1500 items in the queue. There are 20 threads
> getting from the queue, and one putting.
>
> I did have bounded queues (max 40 items) and blocking puts but got
> the same insane error then too.

Since nobody else has reported this problem, a successful conclusion
is going to require analyzing a small-as-possible failing test case. 
I'm afraid that falls on you, unless someone else can reproduce your
symptom.  Here's a start, modeling one plausible set of guesses for
exactly what all the above means:

"""
import threading
import time
from Queue import Queue, Empty
from random import random

class Worker(threading.Thread):
    def run(self):
        while True:
            try:
                k = q.get_nowait()
                assert k == 1
            except Empty:
                pass
            time.sleep(random()/10.0)

q = Queue()
ts = [Worker() for dummy in range(20)]
for t in ts:
    t.start()

while True:
    if q.qsize() > 1500:
        print q.qsize()
        time.sleep(3)
    q.put_nowait(1)
    time.sleep(0.001)
"""

I can apparently run that all day under 2.3.4 (or 2.4c1, which has an
entirely different Queue implementation) and not see anything odd. 
Does it fail for you?  If not, how does it differ from what your app
does?  IOW, can you fiddle it so that it does fail?

>>  How do the standard test_thread, test_threading, and
>> test_queue tests fare on this box?  Was this Python configured to
>> use pthreads or native Solaris threads?

> % grep -i thread pyconfig.h | grep -v ^/
> #define HAVE_PTHREAD_H 1
> #define HAVE_PTHREAD_SIGMASK 1
> #define HAVE_THREAD_H 1
> #define PTHREAD_SYSTEM_SCHED_SUPPORTED 1
> #define SIZEOF_PTHREAD_T 4
> #define WITH_THREAD 1
> 
> I think that means it is using native Solaris threads, assuming my
> reading of thread.c is good.

I don't really know about Solaris config (another reason this would be
better in a bug report, where more people who care about bugs <wink>
would pay attention), but I'd *guess* it means you're using pthreads.

> All of test_thread, test_threading, and test_queue all passed.

That figures.  They check for sanity, but don't really count as stress tests.


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Tue Nov  9 09:24:59 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 9 Nov 2004 06:24:59 -0800
Subject: Email "portal" in Python?
References: <f7199550.0411072019.182a98df@posting.google.com>
	<6f402501.0411080514.3a10136b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0411090624.616840a2@posting.google.com>

[snip..]
> If you are itnerested then email me ( mike AT pcbloes DOT com) or if

oops... that should read mike AT pcblokes DOT com opf course....

Fuzzy

> you would liek to go alone but are still interested in just the login
> stuff then also email me.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> Fuzzy
> 
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From dfh at forestfield.co.uk  Fri Nov  5 11:17:03 2004
From: dfh at forestfield.co.uk (David Hughes)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 08:17:03 -0800
Subject: How do you execute an OS X application (bundle) from Python?
References: <70bb9f8d.0411040250.1f4ac1a@posting.google.com>
	<69cbbef2.0411041513.120fc039@posting.google.com>
	<1gmrrsj.7ljqd6f3sgkfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <70bb9f8d.0411050817.412ab0b3@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote 
> has <has.temp2 at virgin.net> wrote:
> 
> > > For example, in Python in a Nutshell, Alex Martelli shows how you can
> > > run a Windows (notepad.exe) or Unix-like (/bin/vim) text editor using
> > >       os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, editor, [textfile])
> > > But how would you call the OS X text editor /Applications/TextEdit.app
> > > - which appears to be a whole directory inside /Applications?
> > 
> > Using os.system to execute open is pretty simple, as other folks have
> > pointed out.
> 
> ...but doesn't do the P_WAIT: just like using open at the Terminal
> prompt, it immediately continues with your code even as TextEdit is
> starting up.  The idea of that snippet is to let the user edit a
> textfile for configuration, while until the user is done editing, then
> read the textfile etc etc.  And it works file on the Mac with vi too.
> 
> But apparently the P_WAIT is not implemented in the Mac version of
> Python like on the Windows version -- to *WAIT* until the app is done
> before continuing.  So, it looks as if one will have to put in more
> complicated code in that case:-(.

I don't know if that will be possible. The reason for my original
query was that I want to fire up an independent help viewer from an
application - both of which will be bundle-built. In fact, I *don't*
want to implement a wait, but I do want to use Popen from the
subprocess module to launch the viewer - so that I can use its poll()
method to check if it is already running should another launch be
requested, and also kill it on exit from the main application. But,
unlike Windows, poll() always returns a completion code of zero,
instead of None, even though the process is still running.

David


From matthias-dated at mteege.de  Wed Nov 17 03:53:12 2004
From: matthias-dated at mteege.de (Matthias Teege)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:53:12 +0100
Subject: eval syntax problem
Message-ID: <86pt2c3lgx.fsf@mut.mteege.de>


Moin,

what is wrong with

eval('print %s %s %s' % ('%s', '%', 'foo'))

I try to pass a format string to an assignment. Like this

fmt='%.2f'
a=1
b="fmt %" % a

Matthias
-- 
Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de
make world not war


From bokr at oz.net  Sat Nov 13 13:34:32 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 18:34:32 GMT
Subject: Accessing an instance via its memory address (instance at ...)
References: <cn2fkq$k6u$2@ikaria.belnet.be>
Message-ID: <41965392.373170751@news.oz.net>

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 14:59:54 +0100, <simon.alexandre at cetic.be> wrote:

>Hi
>
>I have a list containing several instance address, for example:
>
>[<JavaClass instance at 00BAC290>, <JavaClass instance at 00BB0D10>,
><JavaClass instance at 00BA5230>]
                        ^^^^^^^^--[1]
[1] Is that what you mean by instance address? While that is an actual
hex representation of a memory address in some implementations, the purpose
of the number is identification, not access. What you have in the list is
actually a sequence of references to object representations. In python all
objects are accessed via these references, which internally may be pointers
or indices into storage or composite handles or whatever -- that is up to the
implementation. But when you write source code selecting such a reference, as
in my_list[2] selecting the 3rd (indexing from 0) reference in a list, that
accomplishes access to the object, and you can then write a trailing expression
like .foo() to call a foo method or .foo could be a non-method attribute, or
your selected reference might be to another list, in which case you could
add a trailing [123] to select from that list. Examples just mentioned
spelled out:
    my_list[2].foo()
    my_list[2].foo
    my_list[2][123]

>
>I'd like to invoke a method on each of these instance but I don't know :
>
>1. if its possible
>2. how to proceed
>
others have already demonstrated several ways, I just wanted to elaborate
on the concept of references vs the objects they refer to. Note that assignment
in python works with these object references too, so that when you write
    a = my_list[2]
    b = a
you have bound both names to the same object that my_list[2] refers to.
>someone can help me ?

Example of above things:

 >>> class A(object):
 ...     def foo(self): return '--> This is an instance of class A with id 0x%08X'%id(self)
 ...
 >>> my_list = [A() for dummy in range(2)]
 >>> my_list
 [<__main__.A object at 0x009011B0>, <__main__.A object at 0x009011F0>]

That looks similar to your list of objects. We can select one of them:

 >>> my_list[1]
 <__main__.A object at 0x009011F0>

And call the foo method by adding .foo() to the aforegoing expression:
 >>> my_list[1].foo()
 '--> This is an instance of class A with id 0x009011F0'

Same for the other one:
 >>> my_list[0].foo()
 '--> This is an instance of class A with id 0x009011B0'

If we don't tack on the parentheses we get the bound method (how
that happens -- i.e. the automatic binding together of a class instance
and a method of the class to make a bound method -- is central to how
python's classes work, and something you will want to understand).

 >>> my_list[0].foo
 <bound method A.foo of <__main__.A object at 0x009011B0>>

We can iterate through the list, which successively binds each object
to the supplied name (obj here) via the reference from the list:
 >>> for obj in my_list: print obj.foo()
 ...
 --> This is an instance of class A with id 0x009011B0
 --> This is an instance of class A with id 0x009011F0
 >>>

And show both together:
 >>> for obj in my_list: print obj, obj.foo()
 ...
 <__main__.A object at 0x009011B0> --> This is an instance of class A with id 0x009011B0
 <__main__.A object at 0x009011F0> --> This is an instance of class A with id 0x009011F0

BTW, that first part is just the standard representation of object instances in text,
and you can customize it via the __repr__ method, e.g.,

 >>> class A(object):
 ...     def foo(self): return '--> This is an instance of class A with id 0x%08X'%id(self)
 ...     def __repr__(self): return '<<My "A" instance at %x>>'%id(self)
 ...
 >>> my_list = [A() for dummy in range(2)]
 >>> my_list
 [<<My "A" instance at 9015f0>>, <<My "A" instance at 9011f0>>]
 >>> my_list[1]
 <<My "A" instance at 9011f0>>
 >>> my_list[1].foo()
 '--> This is an instance of class A with id 0x009011F0'
 >>> for obj in my_list: print obj, obj.foo()
 ...
 <<My "A" instance at 9015f0>> --> This is an instance of class A with id 0x009015F0
 <<My "A" instance at 9011f0>> --> This is an instance of class A with id 0x009011F0

We can still get the old style representation by explicitly calling the base __repr__
function we overrode:

 >>> for obj in my_list: print obj, object.__repr__(obj)
 ...
 <<My "A" instance at 9015f0>> <__main__.A object at 0x009015F0>
 <<My "A" instance at 9011f0>> <__main__.A object at 0x009011F0>
 >>>

But note that the builtin repr function uses our custom repr as one would expect:

 >>> my_list[1]
 <<My "A" instance at 9011f0>>
 >>> repr(my_list[1])
 '<<My "A" instance at 9011f0>>'

(The quotes are because interactively we are being shown that the result is a string,
whereas the plain expression uses repr to get a string to print interactively, which
prints the string plain). E.g.,

 >>> print repr(my_list[1])
 <<My "A" instance at 9011f0>>

I encourage you and others to explore interactively, and when you get something you
don't understand, copy from the screen and paste it into your posted question
(which you apparently did with the list snippet -- bravo ;-)

HTH

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Mon Nov 15 09:14:49 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:14:49 -0500
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6377.1100525270.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>	<boKdncuh1ZBxbgrcRVn-gA@giganews.com>
	<L0Tld.2114$nj.1155@lakeread01>
	<mailman.6377.1100525270.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jaqdnX7Fn8xKJAXcRVn-sQ@giganews.com>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:


> feeling. For me, Zope lacks Python's inherent clarity; it seems that
> it requires a 'mental mode' of its own. Many things are not obvious,
> in the way they normally are when I am working with Python.

Web development in general is quite messy. Most of it
is spent on formatting the output and collecting
the parameters. There are no obvious choices and
there is no inherent clarity in the process.

Istvan.





From craig at yuma.ca  Sat Nov 20 18:21:19 2004
From: craig at yuma.ca (craig)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 16:21:19 -0700
Subject: instant messenging
References: <s9und.4018$Qh3.1971@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <2004112016211983792%craig@yumaca>

On 2004-11-19 15:08:24 -0700, Lucas Raab <pythongnome at hotmail.com> said:

> Are there any instant messenging programs out there for use in a Python 
> app?? I've heard of Jabber, but never looke into it.

There are other instant messaging platforms, besides jabber.  I use 
AIM(AOL Instant Messenger) quite a bit, and here is a python 
implementation: http://www.jamwt.com/Py-TOC/

I use it as a BOT, I can share my code if you care.

Hope this helps,
-Craig



From jtveatch at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 21:47:29 2004
From: jtveatch at gmail.com (Jason)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 18:47:29 -0800
Subject: bit operations with python?
Message-ID: <36680182.0411041847.397f48fe@posting.google.com>

I am going through the Geek Challenges on the Open Source Institute
Website: http://www.osix.net/modules/geek/

The instructions for Level 4 are:

"This challenge requires you to use some of your favourite
mathematical operators, and also get to do simple simple file IO.
Additionally you will learn bit operations.

# download this file. Process every byte, if it is greater than 30
(hex) then add 1 to it. If it is smaller than 2A (hex) then add 2 to
it.

# Reduce the filesize by half by taking every second byte out of the
file (delete the second, the fourth etc). Put the result into
part1.dat.

# Take this file AND (the & operator) each byte with part1.dat. Finish
when any end of file (whichever is first) is reached.

# Put the result into a file called part2.dat.
Take part2.dat and XOR(the ^ operator) each byte of it with its own
value and put the result into a new file called part3.dat.

# Finally take part3.dat and add (+) every byte together, append
_solution to the resulting number, and enter it in the box below."

Is it possible to do this sort of thing with python? If so, could
someone recommend a website with instructions on bit operations?
Thanks!


From fgranger at fgranger.com  Sat Nov 13 13:46:56 2004
From: fgranger at fgranger.com (Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Granger)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 19:46:56 +0100
Subject: idle on mac os 10.3.5
In-Reply-To: <BDBC01FD.2F3%baza@themauvezone.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BDBC1530.2B7AA%fgranger@fgranger.com>

Le 13/11/04 19:25, ??Baza?? <baza at themauvezone.fsnet.co.uk> a ?crit?:

>> You may, or may not - can't remember, have to install TclTkAqua-8.4.7
>> from http://tcltkaqua.sourceforge.net/
> 
> It seems there is a, 'show stopper' bug in this that prevents idle from
> running, it's mentioned on their site. So I'm stuck with using a texted
> editor and >>> for the moment it seems.

I installed TclTkAqua-8.4.7 today. IDLE run for 5/10 minutes then crashed.

-- 
Fran?ois Granger
 fgranger at fgranger.com
+ 33 6 61 36 96 17 (mobile)
+ 33 1 47 35 00 16 (home)




From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Sun Nov 14 09:39:53 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 15:39:53 +0100
Subject: .pyc files...
In-Reply-To: <1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <E1CTDp7-00050j-00@galvatron.kickingdragon.com>
	<mailman.6343.1100420001.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2vp91pF2obee4U1@uni-berlin.de>

Simon John wrote:
> Stephen Waterbury wrote:
> 
>> > OK, stupid question, but it's been bothering me for ages.. J
>> >
>> > I love Python to bits, but .pyc files always litter my source tree,
> and
>> > they've always bothered me. ...
> 
>> One solution (on unices, at least):
>>
>> alias cleanpy="find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm {} ';'"
> or with backticks:  rm -rf `find . -name '*.pyc'`

Beware of spaces in filenames!

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Nov 19 15:30:58 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:30:58 GMT
Subject: How can I store a result in a Matrix?
In-Reply-To: <2617fd5d.0411191141.29b92814@posting.google.com>
References: <2617fd5d.0411191141.29b92814@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5Ksnd.69686$5K2.39968@attbi_s03>

Ben Champion wrote:
> I am new to Python so please excuse me if this sounds simple! Before I
> explain what i want to do let me write some code in matlab which
> demonstrates what I would like to acheive, using the Fibonnachi series
> as an example:
[snip matlab code]
> 
> This gives me the variable y with values 
> 2    3    5     8    13    21    34    55    89   144

If you really want to be dealing with matrices, you should probably 
dowload the numarray package:
     http://www.stsci.edu/resources/software_hardware/numarray

If a list is sufficient, I would write this something like:

 >>> def fib():
... 	a, b = 1, 1
... 	while True:
... 		yield a
... 		a, b = b, a + b
... 		
 >>> import itertools as it
 >>> list(it.islice(fib(), 2, 12))
[2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144]

The fib function is a generator that will yield, one at a time, each 
value in the fibonacci sequence.  Since you only wanted values 2 through 
11 in your example, I use itertools.islice to select the appropriate 
part of the generated sequence.

Note also that because Python has tuple unpacking, you can do multiple 
simulaneous assignment, so there's no need to have that extra temp 
variable 'z'.

Steve


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Nov 12 03:33:25 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 00:33:25 -0800
Subject: web hosting with Python
References: <3cccb1d8.0411101416.690960c3@posting.google.com>
	<6f402501.0411110147.69ef6800@posting.google.com>
	<41934648$0$48933$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0411120033.111907a0@posting.google.com>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:<41934648$0$48933$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl>...
> Michael Foord wrote:
> > http://www.sapphiresoft.co.uk
> > are very good. (Good python support, python 2.3.4).
> 
> It doesn't say so on their website, it appears a PHP shop...
> Or am I looking with my eyes closed?
> 
> --Irmen

They've installed Python 2.3.4 at my request, PyCrypto, PIL, Psyco and
a few other modules. I don't think they've got anything advertising it
on their main page........

Regards,


Fuzzy
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Sat Nov  6 10:47:20 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 6 Nov 2004 15:47:20 GMT
Subject: Color schemes
References: <41838c6e$0$7153$d5255a0c@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<18282ecb.0410301418.1ee469f5@posting.google.com>
	<418c2006$0$34293$cd19a363@news.wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <slrncopsc0.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 01:51:30 +0100, Mark Schonewille <nospam at nospam.com> wrote:
...
> those programmers who prefer an editor with colorisation 
> features probably apply colorisation rules similar to the pretty 
> looking scripts on websites and there probably is't a standard 
> colour scheme.

The scheme is more likely to be standardized across languages in the editor
than across editors for a language. Gnu Emacs, for example, defaults (on my
system) to red for comments and a kind of pinkish red for string constants
regardless of language.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From agriff at tin.it  Mon Nov  1 02:21:09 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 07:21:09 GMT
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
References: <1gmfz0k.a3xefz1xzms61N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5689.1099092886.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<nl07o0lr3dvunoq2j0avuvmftnc837fvoc@4ax.com>
	<ad052e5c.0410312112.32869dcf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <idnbo0tctv4f3u23a3ejvpg5qqegaf68jk@4ax.com>

On 31 Oct 2004 21:12:49 -0800, danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop) wrote:

>roman = lambda n: 'M' * (n // 1000) + ('', 'C', 'C', 'CCC', 'CD', 'D',
>'DC', 'DCC', 'DCCC', 'CM')[n // 100 % 10] + ('', 'X', 'XX', 'XXX',
>'XL', 'L', 'LX', 'LXX', 'LXXX', 'XC')[n // 10 % 10] + ('', 'I', 'II',
>'III', 'IV', 'V', 'VI', 'VII', 'VIII', 'IX')[n % 10]
>
>I'm sure there's a shorter way, though.

This is a bit shorter ...

roman = lambda x: "".join(["".join(map(lambda c: "IVXLCDM"[ord(c) -
ord("A")+2*N], "/A/AA/AAA/AB/B/BA/BAA/BAAA/AC".split("/")[x//10**N %
10])) for N in (3, 2, 1, 0)])

Andrea


From vinay_sajip at red-dove.com  Thu Nov  4 10:25:31 2004
From: vinay_sajip at red-dove.com (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 15:25:31 +0000
Subject: ANN: New configuration module released
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.04.13.21.50.589878@nospam.logilab.fr>
References: <2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5873.1099513574.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.04.09.03.20.767617@nospam.logilab.fr>
	<mailman.5902.1099566050.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.04.13.21.50.589878@nospam.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <418A49EB.3020707@red-dove.com>

Sylvain Thenault wrote:
> well, the basic idea is a class providing a (simple) unified api to
> register options and to read them from different sources, those
> methods taking care of optparse / ConfigParser particularities 
[example snipped]

Thanks for sharing this.

> I think the idea was to ask in the configuration file to specify a value
> should be taken from an environment variable, but to get a value from an
> environment variable and / or from the configuration file. 

I think the config module is flexible enough to allow a number of 
different approaches to be used, including the one you mention. It's 
flexible enough to allow configuration values to be looked for in a 
number of places: see

http://www.red-dove.com/python_config.html#cascading-configurations

for an example. One of the cascaded configurations could provide access 
to options provided via the command line, as per my earlier post.

> I've one problem with this approach (other that the person writing the
> configuration file has to know python to benefit from your module). Is
> there something preventing things like :
> 
> work_file_prefix: `os.remove('/etc/password')`

Configuration files read by the config module are *not* Python, though 
the dict and list syntax is very Python-like. Hence the syntax 
`os.remove('/etc/password')` would give a syntax error during parsing. 
The only forms allowed are an identifier followed by zero or more 
suffixes, which are one of:

.identifier
[number]
['string'] (or ["string"])

So you can say `os.sep` and `os.environ['TEMP']` but not call any 
methods explicitly. The back-tick may appear misleading because it may 
imply unrestricted execution - if you can suggest a better character to 
use, please do!



From pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com  Sun Nov 21 16:10:55 2004
From: pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com (Pekka Niiranen)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:10:55 +0200
Subject: Python 2.4: Subprocess and Cygwin question
Message-ID: <41a104f0$0$29223$39db0f71@news.song.fi>

Hi,

I started cygwin shell with command

subprocess.call("c:\\cygwin\\cygwin.bat")

from Python 2.4.

Shell works fine but the fonts/layout are
set according to program "c:\winnt\system32\cmd.exe".
How can I tell Windows to use layout/font settings
of the shotcut "cygwin.bat"?

-pekka-


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Nov  2 12:07:49 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 18:07:49 +0100
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<Xns9591642B12E85duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<slrncoeo0g.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upaauF2e8107U1@uni-berlin.de> <cm8acj$pps$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <cm8et3$7e1$03$1@news.t-online.com>

>>Where do you get that idea from? Modern compilers are aware of printf,
>>and have special type-checking rules built into them that verify
>>that you pass the right number and types of arguments for the format
>>string. And thats totally static, as it is done at compiletime!
> 
> The format string has to be static?  That's news to me.

No, but if it is, the compiler can perform type checking:

http://www.ugrad.physics.mcgill.ca/reference/Gcc/gcc_4.html#SEC84

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From mksql at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  9 15:29:56 2004
From: mksql at yahoo.com (Max)
Date: 9 Nov 2004 12:29:56 -0800
Subject: Send HTML e-mail in Python?
References: <c90c3203.0411021254.74b10c06@posting.google.com>
	<zJSdnVBYcsGUlxTcRVn-oQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <1100032196.071889.316260@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

The solution was I simply missed putting the correct (and
aforementioned) content type in the message header:

msg = ("MIME-Version: 1.0\r\nContent-type: text/html;
charset=utf-8\r\nFrom: %s\r\nTo: %s\r\nSubject: Test Message\r\n" %
(mfrom, mto)) + html
smtp = smtplib.SMTP(smtpserver)
smtp.sendmail(mfrom, mto, msg)



From mailinglist.account at gmail.com  Fri Nov 26 11:50:11 2004
From: mailinglist.account at gmail.com (Anthony)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 08:50:11 -0800
Subject: XUL Parser?
References: <mailman.6758.1101313933.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Ya-dnTB88a2fVzncRVn-ug@speakeasy.net>
	<30lqprF322r8kU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<I6GdneGgKITwQTjcRVn-rw@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <f2b57319.0411260850.671c881@posting.google.com>

"A.M. Kuchling" <amk at amk.ca> wrote in message news:<I6GdneGgKITwQTjcRVn-rw at speakeasy.net>...
> On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 05:35:24 -0500, 
> 	Leif K-Brooks <eurleif at ecritters.biz> wrote:
> > A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> > Anything wrong with <http://www.mozilla.org/projects/xul/xul.html>?
> 
> Unmaintained since 2001 and not complete.  Apparently there isn't even an
> official DTD or RELAX NG schema for XUL.
> 
> --amk

There are always reason to do, and reasons not to do, anything. Just
decide which makes more sense for yourself and leave others their right
to make their own decision.

Oh an btw there is a schema from the XULMaker project @ mozdev
http://xulmaker.mozdev.org/xpath-evaluator/


Anthony


From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Nov  7 10:09:39 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 16:09:39 +0100
Subject: interning strings
References: <418e1e69$0$15438$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <cmldpr$p0q$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Mike Thompson <none.by.e-mail> wrote:

> The interning of strings has me puzzled.??Its?seems?to?happen?sometimes,
> but not others. I can't decern the pattern and I can't seem to find
> documentation regarding it.

Strings of length < 2 are always interned:
>>> a = ""
>>> a is ""
True
>>> a = " "
>>> a is " "
True
>>> "aname"[1] is "n"
True

String constants that are potential attribute names are also interned:
>>> a = "could_be_a_name"
>>> a is "could_be_a_name"
True
>>> a = "could not be a name"
>>> a is "could not be a name"
False

...although the algorithm to determine whether a string constant could be a
name is simplistic (see all_name_chars() in compile.c, or believe that it
does what its name suggests):
>>> a = "1x"
>>> a is "1x"
True

Strings that are otherwise created are not interned:
>>> a = "aname"
>>> a is "a" + "name"
False

By the way, why would you want to mess with these implementation details?
Use the == operator to compare strings and be happy ever after :-)

Peter



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 14 08:47:44 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:47:44 +0100
Subject: Sorting email addresses by domain
References: <20041111015848.QUUY10582.aamta03-winn.mailhost.ntl.com@Bender>
	<mailman.6251.1100140737.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gn8igv.5j4w6l18wns0wN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6346.1100432892.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gn8wrj.ey8dty1a79pcxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Peter Murray <pdmurray at ntlworld.com> wrote:
   ...
> Interesting though that to get the whole sequence reversed, you have to use
> seq[::-1], as if you actually specify the bounds, you would always miss out
> the final item:
> 
> >>> "peter murray"[::-1]
> 'yarrum retep'
> >>> "peter murray"[12:0:-1]
> 'yarrum rete'
> >>> "peter murray"[12:-1:-1]
> ''
> 
> Because the slice is up to and not including the final item.

That's what None is for:

>>> 'peter murray'[12:None:-1]
'yarrum retep'


Alex


From NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it  Wed Nov 10 05:39:27 2004
From: NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it (Manlio Perillo)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:39:27 GMT
Subject: ConfigParser
Message-ID: <nrr3p0d03b1p2pcvk7irgbm1k0nurndehj@4ax.com>

Regards.

Since sections in CongiParser files are delimited by [ and ], why
there is not an escape (and unescape) function for escaping
&, [, and ] characters to &amp;, &lbrack; and &rbrack; ?




Thanks   Manlio Perillo


From yshtil at synopsys.com  Mon Nov 29 13:59:16 2004
From: yshtil at synopsys.com (Yuri Shtil)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:59:16 -0800
Subject: pdb with emacs
Message-ID: <10qms9e7rgrhn42@corp.supernews.com>

Hi,

I am trying to learn python and use the gud/pdb from emacs. The
functionality that I am used to under gud/gdb and gud/perldb is missing, or
I don't know how to make it work.
Specifically: when I start pdb on a script file, the source does not show in
an another window as it does with perldb and gdb. If I bring it up in an
another window,
the ^X SPC set a break, but the subsequent gud-next commands do not move the
execution cursor in the source file window.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Nov 22 02:03:49 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 02:03:49 -0500
Subject: Python 2.4 and Visual C++ Express
In-Reply-To: <XQfod.15475$3u6.726077@wagner.videotron.net>
References: <XQfod.15475$3u6.726077@wagner.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <41A18F55.2070608@rogers.com>

Steve Menard wrote:
...

> I do not have access to Visual C++ 2003, which seems to be the 
> compiler to be used with Python 2.4. Unless I am mistaken, the free 
> command-line compiler is not a solution, as it cannot produce binaries 
> that dynamically link the C runtime.

...

See here:
    http://www.vrplumber.com/programming/mstoolkit/

for details on how to use the free Toolkit compiler for building 2.4 
extensions.

Have fun,
Mike

________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From antonmuhin at rambler.ru  Mon Nov  1 07:47:55 2004
From: antonmuhin at rambler.ru (anton muhin)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 15:47:55 +0300
Subject: itertools: followup to Alex Martelli problem ("number-in-base"
 ``oneliner'') and Bengt Richter solution
Message-ID: <2umpjtF2b2k17U1@uni-berlin.de>

Hello, everybody!

Trying to solve the problem in the subj, I found that I miss some 
iterator-related tools. Mostly consequental application of the same 
function to some argument (if I'm not missing something it has a name 
y-combinator).

If we had one, generating the sequence of digits is easy:

iter(y(lambda (q, _): divmod(q, n), (x, 0)).next, (0, 0))

and if we have something like this in itertools

def y(f, x):
   while True:
     yield x
     x = f(x)

it might be one of simplest solutions possible.

I tried to emulate it in the way Bengt wrote his solution:

def y(f, x):
   return (h for t in [itertools.repeat(x)] for h, t in iter(lambda: 
(t.next(), itertools.imap(f, t)), None))

but it, should I say, a little bit too complex

Therefore, a couple of questions:

1) is there easier way to write y with genexps?
2) don't we need y in itertools?

Partially answering the second question: of course, y is too abstract 
and, at least IMHO, doesn't fit Python ideology. However, most of 
itertools IMHO is rather abstract :)

With the best regards,
anton.


From timr at probo.com  Mon Nov 22 02:49:39 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:49:39 -0800
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.6614.1100891946.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<419E6C13.1040508@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <ed63q05h3kidil8m4gv85q9hord6gq56jp@4ax.com>

"Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:

>Neal D. Becker wrote:
>> Doesn't Python (along with probably every other language ever invented)
>> display prior art here?
>
>Wrt. claim 1, yes. Actually, C is prior art here: you have two
>expressions representing pointers, and you have a system where
>you can determine that the pointers refer to different memory
>locations.
>
>Wrt. claim 2, nothing is prior art.

Claims 1, 15, and 21 are the only independent claims.  If claim 1 is deemed
invalid, because of the obvious prior art, then all the claims that
elaborate upon it (that is, 2 through 14) are also invalid.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From mfuhr at fuhr.org  Sat Nov  6 15:25:07 2004
From: mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr)
Date: 6 Nov 2004 13:25:07 -0700
Subject: checking a thread has started
References: <mailman.6001.1099749512.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<qliv52-mlq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <418d3323$1_2@omega.dimensional.com>

"Roger Binns" <rogerb at rogerbinns.com> writes:

> Deepak Sarda wrote:
> > I believe this bottleneck is due to Apache server - it just can't
> > spawn so many threads so quickly. It just spawns seven threads and
> > that's it.
>
> Something else to watch out for which bites occassionally is that
> there is an import lock, and only one thread at a time can hold it.
> If a thread in Apache is importing your code, then any of your threads
> that try to do an import will just block.  Your main thread will never
> finish and the Apache framework will never finish importing you,
> so the lock is never released.

What platform is Apache running on?  Is the script running under
mod_python or some other framework?  The original post mentioned CGI,
which traditionally means a separate process, at least on Unix-like
systems.  If the script is running in a separate process from the web
server, then Apache wouldn't be responsible for creating the threads
and it shouldn't be holding any import locks.

-- 
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/


From ryangrow at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 16 15:55:06 2004
From: ryangrow at yahoo.com (Ryan Grow)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:55:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: how do I read a series of pickled objects from a socket?
Message-ID: <20041116205506.22904.qmail@web21205.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I am trying to figure out the correct and most
reliable way to read a series of pickled objects from
a socket.
I've found examples that do something like this:

while 1:
   data = conn.recv(500)
   obj = pickle.loads(data)
   # do stuff with object

I don't think the above example would work for my
application. The above example might work if the
server never expects to get more than one object on
the socket at a time. 

The server I'm writing will get a series of objects so
it will need to know where each pickled object ends in
the stream so it knows where to start reading the next
object from.

Is there a correct way to identify the terminator of a
pickled object? Is there a standard and correct way
for the pickle module to easily read pickled objects
from a socket?


Thanks,

Ryan   


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! 
http://my.yahoo.com 
 



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Nov 10 13:38:06 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:38:06 -0600
Subject: should i start looking for a new list?
In-Reply-To: <20041109101248.F1B661C001B2@mwinf0101.wanadoo.fr>
References: <20041109101248.F1B661C001B2@mwinf0101.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <16786.24590.311809.137159@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Jelle> I've been posting some of my most burning (newbie) questions to
    Jelle> this list, and most of them have been unanswered.  Should I be
    Jelle> posting these questions at a different list, since their
    Jelle> technical level is quite low? Am I looking for answers in the
    Jelle> right place?

Perhaps help at python.org (no subscription required) or tutor at python.org
(subscription is required) will offer better support.

Skip


From aborder at users.sourceforge.net  Thu Nov  4 16:39:47 2004
From: aborder at users.sourceforge.net (Anakim Border)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 22:39:47 +0100
Subject: Extract Title from HTML documents
In-Reply-To: <cme4ae$12ci$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
References: <cme4ae$12ci$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <200411042239.48245.aborder@users.sourceforge.net>

You may find BeautifulSoup (http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/) 
useful.

from BeautifulSoup import BeautifulSoup
b = BeautifulSoup()
b.feed(file('test.html').read())
print b.first('title').renderContents()

HTH

-- 
 Anakim Border
 http://pydc.sourceforge.net
 aborder at users.sourceforge.net


From sdementen at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  2 05:29:15 2004
From: sdementen at hotmail.com (Sebastien de Menten)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 02:29:15 -0800
Subject: slice object unpickable
Message-ID: <8dad5312.0411020229.6c1cf61a@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I wonder why the slice object is not pickable via pickle or cPickle.
E.g.:

import pickle
pickle.dumps(slice(0,4))

leads to

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/pickle.py", line 1386, in dumps
    Pickler(file, protocol, bin).dump(obj)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/pickle.py", line 231, in dump
    self.save(obj)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/pickle.py", line 313, in save
    rv = reduce(self.proto)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/copy_reg.py", line 69, in _reduce_ex
    raise TypeError, "can't pickle %s objects" % base.__name__
TypeError: can't pickle slice objects

Is it an omission ? Am I missing something non trivial that would
impede slices to be pickable ?

My main goal is to pickle an object with some slices as attributes. As
my object is quite simple, I would like to enjoy the automatic pickle
system (i.e. not rewrite a __getstate__, __setstate__, etc).
Is there an easy workaround to the "unpickableness" of slices ? I
tried subclassing slices but it is not allowed.

Thanks for your help.

Seb


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Sun Nov  7 17:43:26 2004
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 16:43:26 -0600
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <roy-F37F78.22073306112004@reader1.panix.com>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<mailman.6032.1099794432.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-F37F78.22073306112004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <200411071643.27166.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Saturday 06 November 2004 09:07 pm, Roy Smith wrote:
> Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
> > And I have certainly written some extremely poorly optimized
> > Python programs that positively *crawled*.
> 
> My guess is the poor performance had nothing to do with the language you 
> wrote it in, and everything to do with the algorithms you used.

Wrong guess. ;-)

There was nothing wrong with the *algorithms* when considered apart
from the language.  But considered *with* the language, they were
very bad choices.

Consider the case that you want to perform a string operation which
is not quite  covered by the standard library.  How do you solve that?

In C, you might very well write a function from scratch that does
what you want and nothing else. Usually this will be faster than
calling some standard library function that gets you halfway there
and then another that tries to fix the mistakes the first one made.

Not so in Python.  Anything you write from scratch is going to be
interpreted, and therefore goes at a snail's pace compared to the
C code running in various built-ins and modules (consider the re
module, for example!).  In fact, you might very well write a 
regular expression solution that could have been done by less
impressive means in C, but would take much longer if you literally
translated the code from C to Python. The re solution will actually
do a lot more work "below the waterline" than the literally 
translated version, but it won't have the loop overhead and such
to slow it down.

Generally speaking the simplest *conceptual* way to solve a problem
in Python is also the fastest.

I certainly learned this lesson.  In a way, it's a good thing,
because the simplest conceptual way is probably the easiest for
a reader of your code to understand, too.

The reason why this is relevant is NOT because I'm saying "Python
is slow", but rather that it can be very slow if poorly programmed.
Thus an experienced Java programmer who tries Python may very well
find it to be "slow", since they will not necessarily make the
right choices in re-implementing a program in Python.

That's probably true for any two languages -- the one you are
most familiar with has a significant home-team advantage. ;-)

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From jbellis at gmail.com  Sat Nov  6 23:26:13 2004
From: jbellis at gmail.com (Jonathan Ellis)
Date: 6 Nov 2004 20:26:13 -0800
Subject: windows, spawnl, and sys.argv
Message-ID: <e0656388.0411062026.5d814014@posting.google.com>

When I start a (py2exe'd python) program from another with spawnl on
windows, the program name is omitted from its argv.  Is there another
way to introspect this big of information?  It's ugly trying to guess
whether your arguments start at 0 or 1.

-Jonathan


From Python at IvoNet.nl  Wed Nov 10 15:09:39 2004
From: Python at IvoNet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:09:39 +0100
Subject: ConfigParser
References: <nrr3p0d03b1p2pcvk7irgbm1k0nurndehj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <35t4p0lou2lmcigaj2ic1fv9b253d5nq6k@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:39:27 GMT, Manlio Perillo
<NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it> wrote:

>Regards.
>
>Since sections in CongiParser files are delimited by [ and ], why
>there is not an escape (and unescape) function for escaping
>&, [, and ] characters to &amp;, &lbrack; and &rbrack; ?
>
>
>
>
>Thanks   Manlio Perillo

another discovery:

the get() DOES translate &lbrack; etc back to '[' etc, so it seameth
to me that the whole question is mute ;-))

Ivo.


From Camp.Fire at camp.fire  Tue Nov  2 00:37:52 2004
From: Camp.Fire at camp.fire (Camp Fire)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 05:37:52 GMT
Subject: Finding min/max of numarray RecordArray
Message-ID: <41872F99.6DDE9F0A@camp.fire>

If you have a really huge RecordArray that is memmapped, is this the
right way to find the min of it:

- Get the minimum value of each field (requires a full scan)

- Use the "equal" ufunc to create an array of 1's and 0's corresponding
  to which elements are equal to the min for each field (requires a full
scan)

- Go through these arrays of 1's and 0's and do a logical AND operation.

   The indices that remain "1" are the mins.


i.e.

field1     field2     field3
[ 0           [1          [0
  1            1           1
  1]            0]           1]

This would make the second row the minimum of the RecordArray, because
it is the only row with 1's for all fields.



Is there a better way to do this?





From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Nov  7 11:24:25 2004
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 16:24:25 -0000
Subject: Python for Reverse Engineering
References: <cmhdi4$7vi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu><418c50ad$1_3@omega.dimensional.com>
	<418C54E9.2000409@vt.edu>
	<mailman.6042.1099806403.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmlhv8$ajc$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>


"James Stroud" <jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.6042.1099806403.5135.python-list at python.org...
>
> > > Care to post the 100 strings so others can have a look?
> >
> > I'd rather not do that.
>
> If your friend was worth his salt as an algorithm writer, he'd be more
than
> willing to let you post a mere 100 strings. For any good generator, this
> would be paltry compared to the number of strings it would take to figure
out
> the algorithm.
>
> But--he is probably making impossible claims here, anyway...
>

[snip]

Doesn't that depend on exactly what is meant by "figure out exactly how the
algorithm works"?  If it means identify (with absolute certainty) the
algorithm used to generate the strings, then it surely can't be possible.

Duncan





From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Wed Nov  3 07:05:15 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 3 Nov 2004 12:05:15 GMT
Subject: inferred typing
Message-ID: <slrncohibr.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>

Just a curious question:

Has it ever been considered to furnish Python with inferred typing?

(Possibly only for certain functions or classes, designated by the programmer?)

Cheers,
Gab.

-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| There are works which wait,                                             |
| and which one does not understand for a long time; [...]                |
| for the question often arrives a terribly long time after the answer.   |
|                                                         (Oscar Wilde)   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From davidf at sjsoft.com  Mon Nov 22 06:58:33 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 13:58:33 +0200
Subject: PIL for Python 2.4?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6688.1101118194.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <6r6pp018glonqu2kqeau5ru9nhfj9fpchv@4ax.com><419d002e$1@nntp0.pdx.net>	<cnmtud$3rm$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
	<mailman.6688.1101118194.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cnsk9a$gv8$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> David Fraser wrote:
> 
> 
>>I tried building PIL with mingw recently and had some failures I can't remember ...
> 
> if you don't report your build problems, they will never get fixed (the
> image-sig is the right forum for this, and the best place to get answers
> to PIL-related questions).

Thanks, I'll try reproduce and mail it there...
<sigh> I'm on too many mailing lists already ...

>>It *did* make me think "I wish there was some Pure Python image-handling code". It seems like the 
>>C linkage is mainly required for image formatting handling - I couldn't find any JPEG 
>>reading/writing code in Pure Python ... would be nice :-)
> 
> and incredibly slow.  PIL uses C for a reason.
> 

I've recently discovered you can use the EXIF module to read thumbnails 
that are embedded in a JPEG or TIFF file without having to parse all the 
JPEG stuff. All I'm doing for my particular task is creating thumbnails 
- I can imagine that this may be reasonably fast within Python.
Even if it was slow, it wouldn't neccessarily have to be *incredibly* 
slow :-)

David



From mnations at gmail.com  Mon Nov 22 19:43:35 2004
From: mnations at gmail.com (Mudcat)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 16:43:35 -0800
Subject: Changing the color of default frame border
Message-ID: <1101170615.382927.136240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I would like to change the color of the default border around frames or
widgets. Note: not the highlight border, but the default border. There
have been many previous requests about the highlight border, but I
couldn't find anything on changing the default border color.

I know how to change the border relief and width but have found no way
to change the color of it. Is there a way to do that?

Thanks,
Marc



From sean.berry2 at cox.net  Tue Nov  9 00:18:36 2004
From: sean.berry2 at cox.net (news.west.cox.net)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 21:18:36 -0800
Subject: Determining combination of bits
References: <x3Qjd.121786$hj.41260@fed1read07>
	<mailman.6124.1099945664.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8KQjd.121796$hj.4674@fed1read07>
	<86j0p0drsjebljp35ovg5ohm50dup2gh92@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <prYjd.245340$a85.237438@fed1read04>

> Note: 2^1 = 2, so your dictionary is already in error...
>

The dictionary was filled with arbitrary values, not
{ x : 2^x } values like you might have thought.

It is actually more like {1:123, 2:664, 4:323, 8:990, 16:221... etc}





From michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it  Mon Nov 22 12:51:42 2004
From: michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it (Michele Petrazzo)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:51:42 +0100
Subject: epydoc error
Message-ID: <cnt94r$n2n$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>

I load a file, after I press start, epydoc say me : "Error importing 
myscript. No module named miscc".
I don't use miscc into myscript, so where I can find this module?

Thanks,
Michele


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Nov  4 15:27:52 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 12:27:52 -0800
Subject: two new wrinkles to the general class!
In-Reply-To: <1099585325.926097.5450@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>
	<kj9eo0hkjem9pbj3pvdbpea6gpl06ighsj@4ax.com>
	<1099537038.677930.245340@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<10oj86oh8nfi8ad@corp.supernews.com>
	<1099585325.926097.5450@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <10ol40eoab73d86@corp.supernews.com>

syd wrote:

>One final question that I can't seem to get, but I know I should be
>able to do:
>
>Given a Library class with possible component class types Nation_A,
>Nation_B, and so forth where type(Nation_A)<>type(Nation_B).  If I had
>the string 'Nation_B', how could I get an empty class Nation_B?
>
>ie,
>dir()=['Library','Nation_A','Nation_B',...]
>desiredEmptyClassString=dir[2]
>desiredEmptyClass=getEmptyClassFromString(desiredEmptyClassString)
>Does a "getEmptyClassFromString" method exist?
>  
>

Not directly, but it can be faked.

It's easiest if you're getting the class from an imported module.  
Remember that a module is just another object, and a class object is 
just another callable.

    import MyLibrary
   
    desired_class = getattr(MyLibrary, desired_empty_class_string)
    myobject = desired_class()

It's a bit trickier if the class is defined in the current module, but 
the principle is similar.  You just need a way to look up an attribute 
in the *current* module's namespace, rather than in another module's 
namespace.  As it turns out, the globals() built-in function will return 
the current global namespace, which is actually a dictionary.

    desired_class = globals()[desired_empty_class_string]
    myobject = desired_class()

Personally, I feel nervous any time I have code that uses something like 
globals() -- I feel like I'm starting to poke at internals.  It should 
be completely safe, especially using it in a read-only way like this, 
but just out of inherent cautiousness I prefer to avoid it when I can.  
So, I'd be likely to put all of the interesting class objects into my 
own dict, and call them from there.

    LibraryFactory = { 'Library': Library, 'Nation_A':Nation_A, ... }

    myobject = LibraryFactory[desired_empty_class_string]()

Note that, if you really are selecting the string via an integer index 
into a list, you could instead key this dictionary off of the integers:

    LibraryFactory = {0:Library, 1:Nation_A, 2:Nation_B, ...}
    myobject = LibraryFactory[index]()

Using a dict like this makes me feel a bit more comfortable than using 
globals() (though I realize that this is not necessarily a matter of 
rational reasoning), and it also seems to me to be a bit more 
encapsulated (relevant items are specifically gathered in one particular 
place, rather than just being scattered about the global namespace and 
picked up as needed).  But using globals() is a perfectly viable option 
as well.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From tim.peters at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 20:39:48 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:39:48 -0500
Subject: win 2003 server
In-Reply-To: <cmef57$7si$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <cmef57$7si$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <1f7befae04110417397926323d@mail.gmail.com>

[Brad Tilley]
> Does Python run on Windows Server 2003?

Do you mean Windows Small Business Server 2003, Windows Server 2003
Web Edition, Windows Server 2003 Standard Edition, Windows Server 2003
Enterprise Edition, Windows Server 2003 Datacenter Edition, or Windows
Storage Server 2003?

> http://www.python.org/download/download_windows.html only lists the
> following:
>
> Python for Windows 95, 98, NT, 2000, ME, XP

When you've been around Windows long enough, you'll understand why
your question reads to us like my question above reads to you --
"what's the difference?!" <wink>.

Here's a still-partial list of Windows versions Python runs on:

Windows 95
Windows 95 OSR2
Windows 98
Windows 98 Second Edition
Windows Millennium Edition
Windows NT 3.1
Windows NT 3.5
Windows NT 3.51
Windows NT 4.0
Windows 2000
Windows 2000 Professional
Windows 2000 Server
Windows XP Home Edition
Windows XP Professional
Windows XP Media Center Edition
Windows XP SP2 (several flavors)
Windows Small Business Server 2003
Windows Server 2003 Web Edition
Windows Server 2003 Standard Edition
Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition
Windows Server 2003 Datacenter Edition
Windows Storage Server 2003

The longer this goes on, it seems the more names they give to each
flavor.  The only interesting (wrt Python) categories are < 95, and >=
95.  All the above are in the latter category, and so will be every PC
OS MS releases in the forseeable future (including 64-bit Windows
variants).


From sylvain.thenault at nospam.logilab.fr  Mon Nov  8 06:21:54 2004
From: sylvain.thenault at nospam.logilab.fr (Sylvain Thenault)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 12:21:54 +0100
Subject: pep 8 converter?
References: <418F503F.9050409@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.08.11.21.54.190680@nospam.logilab.fr>

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 10:53:51 +0000, Robin Becker wrote:

> Is there a tool that checks/imposes PEP 8 (ie the right core coding style?).

The default pylint's policy is consistent with Guido's style guide. But it
only checks, not imposes anything nor patches the code to fix detected
problems.
Pylint is available from http://www.logilab.org/projects/pylint

-- 
Sylvain Th?nault                               LOGILAB, Paris (France).

http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org




From caleb1 at telkomsa.net  Tue Nov 16 22:52:18 2004
From: caleb1 at telkomsa.net (Caleb Hattingh)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:52:18 -0500
Subject: newbie question
References: <c30e885a.0411160835.35e39084@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <opshlbpglz1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>

Can python be used for shell programming?

Absolutely.  Going through the python tutorial will take, say, 3 hours,  
and then you should be able to decide for yourself.

As perl does?

That is a very different question I don't think I am qualified to answer.

On 16 Nov 2004 08:35:15 -0800, John <johnw822003 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Can python do Shell programming or system programming as perl does?
> Thanks.
>
> John



From lonetwin at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 16:35:58 2004
From: lonetwin at gmail.com (Steve)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 03:05:58 +0530
Subject: Apache conf file parser
Message-ID: <5a309bd3041117133550a789ab@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
     Does anyone here know of any free/open source Apache conf file
parsers written in python ??  I found quite a few of them written in
perl, but I am writing my app, in python and don't want to call perl
scripts from python just for this.
     OTOH, any pointers or links to docs that describe how to use
alchemist to do apache conf file parsing would also be welcome.

TIA
Steve


From skip at pobox.com  Sat Nov 20 23:49:20 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 22:49:20 -0600
Subject: enhanced gdbinit file - looking for Python+Emacs+gdb users
Message-ID: <16800.7760.739724.695902@montanaro.dyndns.org>


I got a little carried away with the gdbinit file that lives in the Python
distribution at Misc/gdbinit today.  I decided there's no particular reason
that gdb shouldn't display the current Python file when moving up and down
the C stack any time it encounters PyEval_EvalFrame.  After a little digging
I realized this would be pretty easy.  I made two changes to the gdbinit
file:

    1. I wrote a lineno command for gdb that calculates and prints the
       current Python line number.  (It's PyCode_Addr2Line written in gdb's
       command language.)

    2. Using that and the current file gleaned from PyEval_EvalFrame I emit
       the file:line info in the correct format for Emacs to display the
       Python line number at the right time using overridden up and down
       commands.

There's one slight hitch.  It works perfectly when travelling up the C stack
using the up command, however in my environment at least (MacOSX w/ Apple's
gcc and gdb) it causes gdb to segfault when travelling down the stack.  I
can't see anything that would make the behavior different going up instead
of down.  I need some people to try this thing out to see if it barfs for
them as well.  Maybe it's just something peculiar to my environment.  OTOH,
perhaps it's a bug in gdb.

Since I can't really check this beast in given its current rather dicey
behavior, I dropped a copy at

    http://www.musi-cal.com/~skip/python/gdbinit

If you use Python with gdb via Emacs please give it a whirl and let me know
how it works for you.

Thanks,

Skip

P.S.  I think I know how to make the gdb print command print Python objects
as well...


From wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca  Thu Nov 25 13:38:17 2004
From: wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca (Weiguang Shi)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 18:38:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: dictionary initialization
Message-ID: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>

Hi,

With awk, I can do something like
    $ echo 'hello' |awk '{a[$1]++}END{for(i in a)print i, a[i]}'

That is, a['hello'] was not there but allocated and initialized to
zero upon reference.

With Python, I got
    >>> b={}
    >>> b[1] = b[1] +1
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    KeyError: 1

That is, I have to initialize b[1] explicitly in the first place.

Personally, I think

    a[i]++

in awk is much more elegant than

    if i in a: a[i] += 1
    else: a[i] = 1

I wonder how the latter is justified in Python.

Thanks,
Weiguang


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Nov 20 11:09:55 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 11:09:55 -0500
Subject: stopping the sound server in PySol code -- how?
In-Reply-To: <UKCnd.69643$SW3.19216@fed1read01>
References: <iqAnd.69632$SW3.42915@fed1read01> <cnmqq0$l6n$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<zjCnd.69642$SW3.14459@fed1read01>
	<UKCnd.69643$SW3.19216@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <cnnq6b$6i9$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Lynn wrote:
> Lynn wrote:
>   File "/data/apps/pysol-4.82/src/pysolaudio.py", line 44, in ?
>     import pysolsoundserver
> ImportError: No module named pysolsoundserver
> 
> If I strip out every instance of importing that module, it eventually dies
> with a tk box alerting me thatg the global pysolsoundserver is not defined.

This is Python: just make your own pysolsoundserver module
with dummy do-nothing functions.  It's possible that the
use of pysolsoundserver is too complex for this to be easy,
but often all you need to do is run the program repeatedly,
watching for each exception and then implementing dummy
functions/objects that basically trick the calling routines
into thinking everything is working fine.  No need to edit
the original source at all!

Consider it your first foray into test-driven development,
since in effect that's what you would be doing. ;-)

-Peter


From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  6 21:13:47 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 21:13:47 -0500
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <1gmup4m.h9aeb21gu7areN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<418C7DCB.60502@acm.org>
	<mailman.5997.1099739459.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418d3f0b$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1gmup4m.h9aeb21gu7areN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <418d83ef$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Kent Johnson <kent3737 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>I rarely find myself acting as an apologist for Java...
> 
> I'm glad I posted a sufficiently silly comparison to elicit some
> response, then;-)

Yes, good success on that one :-)

> Which python and java versions are you using?

Old. Unfortunately the Mac is no longer my primary machine and not 
up-to-date. I just used it to get timings comparable to yours. It's
Java 1.4.1_01
Python 2.3.3
Mac OSX 10.2.4

...We now return to our regularly scheduled program of trying to 
convince Java programmers to try Python...

Kent


From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Wed Nov 24 13:42:32 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 18:42:32 GMT
Subject: teaching OO
References: <slrncq8inq.9gv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<du7ekij6rq5.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <slrncq9lgo.npu.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>

>  I don't think virtual classes (as in inheriting from base classes
>  "virtually" to avoid a certain multiple inheritance problems) is all
>  that important in this single inheritance favouring world.

ah, sorry, i meant "classes with virtual methods" (i.e., classes that have
RTTI).

>  The concept of overloading is easy, you can go one step further by
>  introducing generic functions / multimethods through one of the
>  modules floating around the net.

You mean in Python? (or C++)
Could you give me a pointer to one of those modules?

TIA,
Gab.


-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| There are works which wait,                                             |
| and which one does not understand for a long time; [...]                |
| for the question often arrives a terribly long time after the answer.   |
|                                                         (Oscar Wilde)   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From meng.yan at gmail.com  Tue Nov 23 00:59:31 2004
From: meng.yan at gmail.com (Mike Meng)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 21:59:31 -0800
Subject: Is there a consensus on how to check a polymorphic instance?
In-Reply-To: <KrKdnXvgGaP_Jz_cRVn-pg@rogers.com>
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<KrKdnXvgGaP_Jz_cRVn-pg@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1101189570.958016.283130@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Thank you Dan,
Solution #1 is concluded from 'Text Processing in Python', section
1.1.3, `Pythonic Polymorphisim', around there, here is an example he
provides:

def toDOM(xml_src = None):
from xml.dom import minidom
if hasattr(xml_src, 'documentElement'):
return xml_src     # it's already a DOM object
elif hasattr(xml_src, 'read'):
# it is something that knows how to read data
return minidom.parseString(xml_src.read())
elif type(xml_src) in (StringType, UnicodeType):
# it is a filename of an XML document
xml = open(xml_src).read()
return minidom.parseString(xml)
else:
raise ValueError, "Must be initialized with " + \
"filename, file-like object, or DOM object"
What's your opinion?



From drew at gremlinhosting.com  Fri Nov 19 10:18:09 2004
From: drew at gremlinhosting.com (Andrew James)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:18:09 +0000
Subject: Python with Apache 2.0
In-Reply-To: <89cc6e1f.0411190632.2976b3e1@posting.google.com>
References: <89cc6e1f.0411190632.2976b3e1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1100877489.32379.7.camel@odin>

Chang,
I guess it depends whether you're using Python in a CGI or within
mod_python. Could you give us a little more information, or check the
mod_python documentation?

Andrew

On Fri, 2004-11-19 at 06:32 -0800, Chang LI wrote:
> Does python support threads safely along with Apache 2.0 in web applications.
> 
> Chang
-- 
Andrew James <drew at gremlinhosting.com>



From sean_mcilroy at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 29 16:58:05 2004
From: sean_mcilroy at yahoo.com (Sean McIlroy)
Date: 29 Nov 2004 13:58:05 -0800
Subject: tkinter manual question
Message-ID: <e5063e96.0411291358.7998dc61@posting.google.com>

The 'Canvas Methods' section of the online Intro to Tkinter
(http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/x2102-methods.htm)
refers (without explanation) to something called "bbox". What is this?
TIA


From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Sun Nov 21 11:53:55 2004
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:53:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: why python?
References: <cndpgm$s82$1@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca>
	<1gndypu.1e28rl1cgo8nsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <vsh1q0tcrrb7ie2q8hs171rht3h63feneq@4ax.com>

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 08:34:40 +0100, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex
Martelli) wrote:

> Functional programming is quite a different story.  Though I've never
> used it in anger, I _am_ quite convinced that if you can put together a
> team of people with PhD in maths or CS for all the development and
> maintenance you can probably get more done with it than with languages
> that let you take shortcuts by modifying data.  Whether S/ML, O'CAML,
> Haskell, Erlang, or other languages yet, best embody that ideal, I can't
> claim to know.  In the real world, I believe putting and keeping
> together a team of people who are math whizzes IS gonna be a problem.

Nice post Alex, that just about sums up exactly how I feel about
FP. It looks great, it works when I can be bothered to think hard
enough, but the idea of risking it on a real world project gives
me serious pause for thought. For mathematicians it's great for
lesser mortals, hmmm.

Alan G.
Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld


From godoy at ieee.org  Tue Nov 16 17:06:50 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:06:50 -0200
Subject: Python 2.2 on Red Hat
References: <BDC02405.3068%oct@redcatmedia.net>
Message-ID: <m3654578jp.fsf@g2ctech.com>

Andy Jacobs <oct at redcatmedia.net> writes:

> I'm trying to install some anti spam software called ASK.  This relies on
> Python2.2 whereas my Cobalt RAQ4 is running 1.5.2 so I need to upgrade from
> RPM.
>
> I've done a search and everything for Python2.2 says that it's for Red Hat
> 7, 8 or 9.  I'm running 6.  I don't want to just go at this like a bull in a
> china shop so wondered what the advice here might be.

You'll have to get the .src.rpm (SRPM), rebuild it and install the
resulting binary package.

Usually a lot of basic libraries change and I dunno if this change is
coincidnt with several glibc + gcc upgrades... 

-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at ieee.org>


From lists at debpro.webcom.dk  Fri Nov  5 04:22:28 2004
From: lists at debpro.webcom.dk (Jacob Friis)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 10:22:28 +0100
Subject: Simple thread pools
In-Reply-To: <20041104102722.F815.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <418A4900.7020304@debpro.webcom.dk>
	<20041104102722.F815.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <418B4654.3080807@debpro.webcom.dk>

>>I'm setting NUM_FEEDERS to 1000.
>>Is that crazy?
> 
> Not crazy, but foolish.  Thread scheduling in Python reduces performance
> beyond a few dozen threads.  If you are doing system calls (socket.recv,
> file.read, etc.), your performance will be poor.

Is there no way via Python to download say 1000 files simultaneously?

- Jacob


From peter at somewhere.com  Mon Nov 15 14:02:39 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 20:02:39 +0100
Subject: Iterating over PDF documents
In-Reply-To: <3c18c08f.0411121422.6e405b04@posting.google.com>
References: <cmv9j2$et5$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<3c18c08f.0411121422.6e405b04@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cnavnt$g26$1@swifty.westend.com>

I solved the problem by writing an iterator that takes care of all
eol types without changing/deleting them. So I could edit the parts
that looked like text while leaving the binary parts alone.

Thanks to you all for your useful input.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Thu Nov  4 09:10:50 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 15:10:50 +0100
Subject: How do you execute an OS X application (bundle) from Python?
References: <70bb9f8d.0411040250.1f4ac1a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <wzpt2t66xh.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> dfh at forestfield.co.uk (David Hughes) (DH) wrote:

DH> For example, in Python in a Nutshell, Alex Martelli shows how you can
DH> run a Windows (notepad.exe) or Unix-like (/bin/vim) text editor using
DH>       os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, editor, [textfile])
DH> But how would you call the OS X text editor /Applications/TextEdit.app
DH> - which appears to be a whole directory inside /Applications?

DH> I'm sorry if the answer is blindingly obvious. I work alone and
DH> sometimes just get stuck, then have to ask in public and risk
DH> appearing a noodle brain.

os.system("open -a TextEdit test.txt")
or
os.system("/Applications/TextEdit.app/Contents/MacOS/TextEdit test.text")

I suppose you can translate this also to spawn calls.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Tue Nov 23 08:07:01 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 14:07:01 +0100
Subject: Using alternative PyObject* in dynamically created classes
References: <tyfbrdu1b2m.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <tyf653whfyi.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:

> I would like some of my _dynamically_ created new-style classes to
> have instances which are not represented by the standard PyObject, but
> one which has an extra void* slot which I want to use for my nefarious
> purposes, in extension functions. The pointer need not be initialized
> (for now) I just want it to be there in case I want to stuff something
> in there later on in the run.
> 
> What is the laziest way of achieving this?
> 
> As far as I can tell, PyTypeObject (and its allocators, deallocators,
> methods in general) only refer to the type of the instance struct via
> tp_basicsize (where only the struct's size is held). 
> 
> So my first attempt merely resets tp_basicsize to the size of my
> alternative instance struct, as soon as the class is created. This
> goes horribly wrong when instances of the class are deallocated, but I
> can't see why.
> 
> Where else must I provide information about the instance struct type ?
> 
> 
> [I will be away for a few days, from a few hours from now; please
> don't take a long response time as a sign of rudeness.]


Hmm ... no takers ?

:-(



From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Thu Nov 11 15:29:57 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (Premshree Pillai)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:29:57 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: I don't quite get this "string".find()
In-Reply-To: <d52c72d2041111113644284154@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041111202957.92967.qmail@web8503.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Jaime Wyant <programmer.py at gmail.com> wrote: 
> Will someone explain this to me?
> 
> >>> "test".find("")
> 0
> 
> Why is the empty string found at position 0?

It finds an empty string at the very first position.
> 
> Thanks!
> jw
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>  

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partner online
Go to: http://yahoo.shaadi.com/india-matrimony


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Nov  9 08:37:32 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 08:37:32 -0500
Subject: executing python code
In-Reply-To: <x7oei8p9ko.fsf@guru.mired.org>
References: <cmgvvd$chn$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<418c0870$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
	<cmh1t7$d9p$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<418c0e56_1@omega.dimensional.com> <x7y8hfr9wu.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<418F639D.3070404@holdenweb.com> <x7oei8p9ko.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <fQ3kd.13461$931.11025@lakeread01>

Mike Meyer wrote:

> Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>Mike Meyer wrote:
>>
>>>I find that symlinking ~/src/python/mycode.py to ~/bin/mycode means I
>>>get to invoke it without having to specify the extension, and don't
>>>have to reinstall the file if I change it.
>>>     <mike
>>
>>That works too. Of course under Linux/Unix there's no particular
>>reason to use the .py extension in the first place.
> 
> 
> Some editors use the extension to determine the language mode to run
> in. And distutils uses .py extensions.
> 
>     <mike

There is that. I was thinking only of the execution scenario.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 15 10:54:15 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 10:54:15 -0500
Subject: Python generators in Java?
In-Reply-To: <ppWdnQCou6jBUQXcRVn-jA@adelphia.com>
References: <ppWdnQCou6jBUQXcRVn-jA@adelphia.com>
Message-ID: <4198d010$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>

Robert Oschler wrote:
> Preamble:
> Jython won't do because last I checked it was dormant, and has been for
> quite some time.  In addition, the version that it is "frozen" at  (2.1)
> does not contain generators (if this is wrong on any point, *please* point
> me to a URL for a current version).  
Yes, that is still the current production release.

I checked the mailing list archive and
> except for a single recent post from a party external to the Jython project,
> there hasn't been any mailing list activity since 2002.  

??? There is continuous, moderate activity on the ML. Try 
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=5586

In fact, I saw my
> two unanswered posts about Jython and generators from 2002.  There was a
> 2.2a (alpha release) in July of 2003 with lots of warnings about using the
> code in a production environment, but nothing since.

There has been some encouraging news about a Jython update in the works. 
See the news at http://www.jython.org
We won't have generators in Jython soon but there is progress.

Kent


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  8 05:11:40 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 11:11:40 +0100
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<tyfekj44shs.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <1gmxizh.3rip5na92f0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:

> Gabriel Zachmann <zach at cs.uni-bonn.de> writes:
> 
> > Is there any generic way to use C++ libraries from within Python.
> 
> > Without doing anything else (such as recompiling the library or generating
> > wrappers).
> 
> Bit of a tall order, don't you think?

Well, ctypes does that for C libraries (as long as they're
DLL/so/dynlib/...), it's not immediately obvious that using C++
libraries is an order of magnitude harder (though probably true).


> What would be so cumbersome about invoking a single program which
> requires the location of the library, the location of its headers, and
> which gives you a Python module wrapping the library in return ?

Without a C/C++ compiler around, you mean?  Most Python users these days
don't have one (as they use Python on Windows)...


Alex


From pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Nov 24 17:59:57 2004
From: pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 22:59:57 +0000
Subject: Python 2.4 and Visual C++ Express
References: <XQfod.15475$3u6.726077@wagner.videotron.net>
	<9APod.4998157$ic1.468025@news.easynews.com>
	<30ji62F31ppn0U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<KO6pd.5049226$ic1.472572@news.easynews.com>
	<mailman.6769.1101332012.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uy8gq3laq.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>

"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> writes:

> It has almost always been the case that you must download new extensions 
> for a new major version of Python.  The difference now is that library 
> developers can use the Free (as-in-beer) MSToolkit compiler to build 
> 7.1-compatible extensions, instead of needing to purchase MSVC++ 6.0.

One thing that does nag at me (and I've had no joy getting answers
from the mod_python list so far) is whether a 2.4-compatible version
of mod_python will be possible.

Python 2.4 will be built with the MSVC 7.1 compiler/CRT, but (AFAIK)
Apache is still distributed in binaries built with the MSVC6
compiler/CRT. So it's not clear to me which CRT mod_python should be
built against...

Hoping-it's-all-going-to-just-work-ly y'rs
Paul.
-- 
Accomplishing the impossible means only that the boss will add it to
your regular duties. -- Doug Larson


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Sat Nov 20 08:16:17 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:16:17 +0100
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <mailman.5272.1098381729.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm17og.ctwoqv17vkctxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<419EEEAA.D3C1046F@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6642.1100936758.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<87actcrhlo.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>
Message-ID: <cnng31$qtm$05$1@news.t-online.com>

> No, you don't quite understand what the OP is asking for.  C++
> templates are function or classes that is parameterized by some
> arguments, the parameters can either be integer constants or type
> names.  So by writing a single template function you create (or
> actually, you ask the compiler to create on-the-fly) many functions.
> Upon using the parameterized function or class, the compiler will
> choose/create the function or class for you.  Specialization is a
> mechanism that allows you to create a function that overrides the
> implementation for some specific parameters.  E.g., you can create a
> "factorial" function as a template function:
> 
>   template <int n>
>   int factorial() { return n * factorial<n-1>(); }
> 
> so that when asked, the compiler generates factorial<5>() as a
> function which returns 5*factorial<4>(); factorial<4>() as a function
> which returns 4*factorial<3>(), and so on.  The terminal condition is
> defined using a specialization:
> 
>   template <>
>   int factorial<0>() { return 1; }
> 
> When the compiler wants to generate factorial<0>(), the more
> specialized form is used, which stops the recursion.  In this way you
> create a compile-time computed factorial function.  During compilation
> the optimizer will turn it into a constant, so no computation is done
> during run-time: factorial<10>() is in every conceivable way an
> integer constant 3628800.

You should mention that C++ lacks the possibility to properly solve
type-equations, so that your provided positive example backfires in cases
where two or more type arguments are needed. An example would be a generic
vector class, that takes the scalar type as argument as well as the
dimension. now for example the multiplying code looks like this:

template <T, N>
void mult(vector<T, N> a, vector<T, N> b) {
    a[N] = a[N] * b[N];
    mult<T, N-1>(a,b);
}

Now to stop code generation at N=0, you need to write

template <double, 0>
void mult(vector<double, 0> a, vector<double, 0> b) {
    a[0] = a[0] * b[0];
}


The above examples are right out of my head, so I can't guarantee they work.

The important thing to observe is that one needs to instantiate the
recursion abortion for the scalar class as well as the dimension 0 - it
won't work like this:

template <T, 0>
void mult(vector<T, 0> a, vector<T, 0> b) {
    a[0] = a[0] * b[0];
}

So forgetting to instantiate the used scalar template - for int as example -
will lead to a compiler error, as it tries to generate templates until it
hits the built-in iteration limit.

In functional languages, these things work better, as their pattern-matching
has a notion of "more specialized" patterns over lesser specialized ones.



-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From esj at harvee.org  Tue Nov  2 18:44:06 2004
From: esj at harvee.org (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 18:44:06 -0500
Subject: saved sys.path
In-Reply-To: <1gmm44d.3ayblzifiogeN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <%Xmhd.29071$g4.544104@news2.nokia.com>	<1gmkht7.1e1lg86qerk5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.5765.1099319253.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gmlelr.q7q1rz5rc37oN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.5797.1099369171.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmm44d.3ayblzifiogeN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41881BC6.4010806@harvee.org>

Alex Martelli wrote:
...bunch of good stuff

here's my working model.  It's barely tested and I'll experiment with it 
in some code of the next couple of days.

its usage is relatively simple.  Stick this bit of code in 
site-packages.  I call it application_path.py because it's easy to 
dictate.  Then in a piece of code such as xyzzy.py, you start it was 
something like:

#!/usr/bin/python

import application_path
application_path.set_path()
import sys
print sys.path

and create xyzzy.pathlist in site-packages.  Fill it with a list of 
directories that exist.  If directories don't exist, they will not be 
added to the search path.  And run the executable.  The print statement 
will show you modified path.  In this example, the default is to prepend 
paths because in my world, I want my changes to be found first just in 
case there is a naming conflict or I am overriding a system module.

the first argument to set_path is the name.  specifying the name is 
useful obviously because you may have multiple executables that use the 
same module set and this allows the application set to use a single path 
file.  The second is at_head which if true (default) places the paths at 
the beginning of sys.path.  If false, obviously they are appended to the 
end.

as for the code style, it's mostly influenced by what is easy to do 
using speech recognition and Emacs.  There have been a couple of 
projects to try and make programming by voice easier but they have run 
out of steam or run over by complexity.  Maybe both.


#!/usr/bin/python

#application_path is a module an application can use to add
#application-specific paths to an application's awareness

import sys
import os.path
import re

def set_path(name = None, at_head = True):
     """expand the site path from the file matching the given name or
     the executable name.  Always append to the head of the search path
     unless at_head == False"""

     working_name = name
     if name == None:
         # strip off suffix and/or leading path
         working_name = sys.argv[0]

     # print "proto working name %s"% working_name
     dot_index =  working_name.rfind(".")
     if dot_index != -1:
         working_name =  working_name[0:dot_index]
     working_name = os.path.basename(working_name)

     # convert name to path list
     path_list = get_paths(working_name)

     if at_head:
         path_list.extend(sys.path)
         sys.path=path_list

     else:
         sys.path.extend(path_list)

     print sys.path
     return working_name


def get_paths (name):
     """based on a given name (which should be fully cleaned up to be
     just a name and not a path with extension) get a path file and  """
     file_path = "".join([sys.prefix,
                          "/lib/python",
                          sys.version[:3],
                          "/site-packages/",
                          name,
                          ".pathlist",
                          ]
                         )
     try:
         #print "file_path %s" % file_path
         handle = open(file_path, 'r')

         path_list = []
         for line in handle.readlines():
             line = line.strip()

             #ignore comments and blank lines
             ignore = re.search(r'^#|^\s+$', line)
             if ignore : continue

             # does path exist?
             if os.path.isdir(line):

                 # build a list of paths
                 path_list.append(line.strip())

         handle.close()

         return path_list

     except IOError:
         #print "exception: file_path %s" % file_path
         return []


if __name__ == '__main__':

     set_path()
     print
     print

     set_path("testing")

     print
     print

     set_path("testing", False)




From mario at nospam.null  Wed Nov  3 15:29:57 2004
From: mario at nospam.null (Mario)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 20:29:57 GMT
Subject: printer delusion
Message-ID: <9dbid.257879$35.12024814@news4.tin.it>

Hello, I am a new Python entusiast, I am studing it since some weeks and I
think it's a great language and I was very happy with it, but when I came to
make a printer routine I really got demotivated by the difficulty, why does
Python covers easily  the most complicated tasks and on the printer there is
this big hole? I was looking on the web, on newsgroups, to find some good
solution but I couldn't believe that there is this big lack on the printers,
as much I was happily surprised to find that Python handles easily diffucult
tasks, I had a big delusion to find out the lacks of Python on the print
problem, which is very important for me.

I really wish that soon will come out some implementation on the Python
native package to handle printing on the various platforms.

I saw that the most easy thing was to write a txt file and shell "notepad /p
filename" to print the data, (what a rude thing! imho), but that is not
enough cause I need to eloborate datas and print styled reports that I used
to code directly inside VB, but now I can't do it or is some cliffhanger
task.

I started to work also for unix platforms and I thought that Python was the
perfect language to write multiplatforms programs, I was so entusiast about
it that I couldn't believe that I had to go in that problem now.

I really would appreciate that the developers will develope soon a global
print function that one can use inside the code, that can use styled texts
and graphics and then the interpreter will care about the os and printers.

Bye and thanks for any suggestion, if any.

Mario

PS: Was all too good to be true :P lol




From gaudette at ele.uri.edu  Wed Nov 24 16:55:08 2004
From: gaudette at ele.uri.edu (Jason)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 13:55:08 -0800
Subject: namespace & imported modules
References: <799208ed.0411232158.2a6d0782@posting.google.com>
	<co1fmi$ugu$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <799208ed.0411241355.1f9dcedb@posting.google.com>

Thanks for your quick reply, Peter.

I had to dust off my Learning Python book, which I had read cover to
cover many months ago.  After re-reading some key sections I now
understand what 'global' scope really means and why you suggested
importing the module directly, rather than copying the namespace with
the 'from' statement.

When importing the module directly as 'import module' in lieu of 'from
module import *', this doesn't seem to address the issue I'm having.

My main program now imports the submodule names that must be qualified
with the module name, but the function in one submodule still can't
see the function (class instance method to be exact) defined in the
other submodule.

I suppose I can post the test code I was using.  The multithreaded
hierarchy mimics that of my 'real' program that I need to integrate my
code into, so don't let this complexity confuse you.

===========================================================
# main.py
#
#!/usr/bin/env python
#
# A customized class to terminate a thread using the threading
module's event-
#   based functionality.
#
###############################################################################

import threading, time

from hb_imports import *
import hb_imports
import hb_global

def main():
	# launch WatchDog timer thread
	bcast_watchdog = hb_global.WatchDog(timeout=3)
	bcast_watchdog.setDaemon(1)
	bcast_watchdog.start()
	
	# launch global arbiter
	glob_arbiter = threading.Thread(target=hb_global.global_arbiter)
	glob_arbiter.setDaemon(1)
	glob_arbiter.start()
	
	time.sleep(7)
	cfg['ISROOT'] = False		# simulation: no longer root again
	
	time.sleep(7)

if __name__ == '__main__':
	main()

===========================================================
# hb_global.py

import threading, time
import hb_stethoscope
from hb_imports import *

class WatchDog(threading.Thread):
	def __init__(self, name='WatchDog', timeout=1.0):
		self._timerevent = threading.Event()	# assign event to instance
		self._waitperiod = timeout 	# assign timeout delay to instance
variable

		threading.Thread.__init__(self, name=name)
	
	def run(self):
		while 1:
			while not cfg['ISROOT']:
				print now() + 'Timer started. %s seconds to receive ping.' %
self._waitperiod
				
				# initialize timer and flags
				self._timerevent.clear()		# BE KIND. REWIND.
				self._intervened = False		# init flag denoting intervention
occurred
				
				# wait for reset() method to be called or timeout
				self._timerevent.wait(self._waitperiod)
					
				# if _intervened flag not set AND still not a root server (status
could change in countdown)
				if not self._intervened and not cfg['ISROOT']:
					print now() + "No broadcasts received in %s seconds! Becoming a
root server." % (self._waitperiod,)
					cfg['ISROOT'] = True		# modify root status

			time.sleep(0.1)			# sleep 100ms to avoid constant polling
	
	def reset(self):
		self._intervened = True
		self._timerevent.set()


def global_arbiter():
	threading.Thread(target=hb_stethoscope.stethoscope).start()

===========================================================
# hb_stethoscope.py

import threading, time
import hb_global
from hb_imports import *

def stethoscope():
	for i in range(6):
		if i == 3:
			time.sleep(4)
		sim_delay = 1
		time.sleep(sim_delay)
		threading.Thread(target=bcast_handle).start()

def bcast_handle():
	print now() + 'Receiving broadcast ping. Reseting watchdog timer.'
	hb_global.bcast_watchdog.reset()

===========================================================
# hb_imports.py

import time

otime = time.time()

def now():
	ctime = time.time()
	return '%.2f :: ' % (ctime-otime,)

cfg = dict()
cfg['ISROOT'] = False

===========================================================

The last line in hb_stethoscope.py, hb_global.bcast_watchdog.reset(),
is _supposed_ to call the WatchDog.reset() class instance method in
hb_global.py.

I've been very frustrated trying to find out why I can't access this
method.

Thanks for anyone taking a look at this problem.

Happy Thanksgiving,

Jason


From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Sun Nov  7 07:53:05 2004
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 12:53:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ANN: Updated beginner's tutorial
Message-ID: <kf6so0p7jrsmu24uvfsgrlg3rf6diul6es@4ax.com>

Its taken much longer than expected but my all-new, all-singin'
all-dancin' web tutor for beginners is officially launched!

Thanks to all those who submitted comments on the drafts.

A quick summary of the new features:

- Uses Python 2.3 as the main language
    Not all features but where there have been changes 
    in preferred approach these are adopted, for example 
    string methods etc.
- Uses VBScript and JavaScript as comparison languages
    Whereas Tcl and QBASIC were only used for comparisons 
    and only given about 25% of the coverage of Python, 
    VBScript and JavaScript now get around 75% of 
    Python's coverage. I believe you could actually learn
    these languages from the tutor now.
- Has new chapters on text processing and regular expressions
    The text processing was very thin, there is much more 
    on using string methods and a whole intro to 
    regular expressions, basically reproducing the regex 
    chapter from my book.
- has many more examples
    This was one comon criticism, hopefully the increased 
    code count will keep folks happy. There will inevitably 
    be bugs so if you find any please let me know so I can 
    fix 'em!
- has much more detailed explanations 
    overall its about 30-50% bigger

My priorities for the immediate future are getting two new
translations loaded onto the site - an update of the Czech one
based on the new material, and a brand new Polish edition also
based on the new material.

After that I'll be starting a series of new topics focused on
practical applications: using os, path, CGI, sockets, xml etc...

Enjoy, and as ever send that feedback to me.

Alan G.
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/

Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/tutor2


From mwm at mired.org  Thu Nov 11 15:36:04 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:36:04 -0600
Subject: Sorting email addresses by domain
References: <mailman.6250.1100138329.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<guAkd.2$G36.0@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.6253.1100142755.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <x7lld8nmx7.fsf@guru.mired.org>

"EP" <EP at zomething.com> writes:

> From: Greg Krohn @ invalid wrote:
>
>> Elegant or Perlish, you decide:
>> 
>> addresses.sort(lambda a, b: cmp(a[a.find('@'):].lower(),
>>                                  b[b.find('@'):].lower()))
>> 
>> Note that this isn't case sensitive and items without an '@' will be 
>> placed at the end.
>
>
> I think: yes and yes.  Looks efficient versus what came to mind for me:
>
>>>> def sortByDomain(addies=[]):
> 	domains=[a.split("@")[1] for a in addies]
> 	aPairs=zip(domains,addies)
> 	aPairs.sort()
> 	sortedAddies=[tup[1] for tup in aPairs]
> 	return sortedAddies
>

I wouldn't bet on the one using an internal cmp being faster than
doing the decorate-sort-undecorate version. In fact, my tests on a
list of 16000 addresses show them to be virtually identical. Tuning
your version to get rid of one trip through the list doesn't make much
difference:

def sort_by_domain(addies):
    l = [(a.split("@")[1], a) for a in addies]
    l.sort()
    return [a[1] for a in l]

    <mike

-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  2 14:59:09 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 20:59:09 +0100
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <1gmn33v.143mue0nairczN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Gabriel Zachmann <zach at cs.uni-bonn.de> wrote:

> I've read up quite a bit about strong/weak typing, and static and dynamic
> typing, and it seems to me that, while static/dynamic typing is a pretty
> well-defined concept, the definition of strong/weak typing is not so
> clear-cut.

"four legs good two legs bad".  In the end, it's what works best...


Alex


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Nov 12 14:06:01 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:06:01 -0800
Subject: long-run repeatly timer?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6299.1100251251.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6299.1100251251.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10pa27a8649j500@corp.supernews.com>

Qiangning Hong wrote:

> I am implementing a long-run sample-and-record system.  It collects 
> data from a PCI card every 10 seconds, saves the data (timestamped 
> with the current system time) in the hard disk, and shows them on the 
> screen. There is also a GPS receiver module exists on the system, 
> which correct the system time (and the hardware time) when it drifts 
> away too much, however, I can not access the source code of this module.


I think that, in order to do this, you may need to discover when the 
system time has been adjusted and explicitly correct for that.  Given 
that system time is the only real source of timing information that you 
have (because any other sources are going to be derived from that), 
you're going to have a hard time doing anything that's more accurate 
than your (possibly self-corrected) system time.

Is there a way to get the GPS module to inform other programs when it 
adjusts time?  Is there a maximum/minimum time delta that it will 
apply?  Does it only correct the system time at specific intervals?

Actually, if you can write a C extension (or if there's a preexisting 
Windows API call that you can use through ctypes), you might be able to 
hook into the hardware clock-tick interrupt and count ticks yourself, 
deriving your own time with a little bit of math.  You'd probably need 
to sync periodically with the system clock, anyhow, to make sure that 
your tick count isn't drifting, but it would give you independence from 
the sudden discontinuities in the system time from being reset by the 
GPS module.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  8 09:18:52 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 15:18:52 +0100
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<tyfekj44shs.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxizh.3rip5na92f0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyfacts4of3.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxn7d.19o8q51jt2gu5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyf1xf44ffs.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <1gmxube.1skk9cj1uago53N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
   ...
> > Anyway, if my guess is correct that the demand for such a 'c++types'
> > is really burning only on Windows,
> 
> What's behind this guess ?

The fact that Windows is the only widespread OS where getting a compiler
isn't as easy as installing it, for free, off the OS media.  Admittedly
many Mac users don't even bother to install the compilers and IDEs that
Apple packs on the MacOSX media, but then these are people not at all
interested in developing programs -- they wouldn't program using the
hypothetical c++types either.


> > I think Boost Python, if all needed tools were present, might be
> > able to do a more automatic job of producing the wrapper,
> 
> Hmmm. Boost does refuse to make any assumptions, and therefore
> requires human intervention in quite a few cases. Maybe default
> assumptions could be built into Pyste. Maybe they already have; it's a
> while since I looked at Pyste.

Yeah, pyste is what I had in mind, I had just forgotten the name (it had
been quite a while for me, too).

> And I also suspect that, in practice, there will be a fairly low limit
> on the size of library that Boost can wrap, because of compile-time
> memory consumption. ISTRT wrapping about 20-30 methods taken from
> about 5 classes used up half a Gb of RAM. So you probably don't want
> the throw Boost at a whole library indiscriminantly.

Wow -- THAT bad?!  Eeek.

> Having said that, I recall that was some utility being developed to
> split the compilation into small submodules, as an attempt to manage
> the memory explosion.

Makes sense, I guess.


Alex


From exarkun at divmod.com  Sun Nov 14 18:53:53 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 23:53:53 GMT
Subject: .pyc files...
In-Reply-To: <4197ec65$0$21106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <20041114235353.20649.825431918.divmod.quotient.5319@ohm>

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:38:20 +0100, Irmen de Jong <irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl> wrote:
>Mike Meyer wrote:
> > "Simon John" <simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk> writes:
> >>or with backticks:  rm -rf `find . -name '*.pyc'`
> > Better with $(: rm -rf $(find . -name '*.pyc').
> 
> What's the difference? I've never seen (read: used)
> the $(...) syntax...

  $() is a bash-ism.  `` is POSIX sh.  I'm not aware of any other significant differences (quoting rules vary, etc).  In particular, I can't think of any differences which would make $() preferable.

  Jp


From mario at nospam.null  Wed Nov  3 19:04:20 2004
From: mario at nospam.null (Mario)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 00:04:20 GMT
Subject: printer delusion
References: <9dbid.257879$35.12024814@news4.tin.it>
	<Q7udndLPNc1k2BTcRVn-gg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <8meid.258989$35.12098959@news4.tin.it>


>"Larry Bates" <lbates at syscononline.com> wrote:
> When you are new to something you may want to consider
> going slow about criticism.  Quite often what you want
> exists and you are unaware of it at the beginning.

Hi, thanks for the answer, mine was not a real criticism, was more a
delusion to see that a powerful thing such as Python needs external apps for
making a serious printing task, instead of having a set of built in
functions that handle it, no matter what os you are in or if you want, or
don't want to use/install wxWindows, or produce pdf, or shell "notepad /p",
my goal is to produce and sell to my clients complete packages that doesen't
require third party softwares or libraries. Also because often clients says
"no way" about installing other things than what is strictly needed (for
security and stability reasons) and wouldn't be nice to install some big
library just to make the print job; I would rather produce a small
executable in C (or VB for windows) so to be called when it's needed to
print, but I would still prefer a built in function so I'll have a complete
indipendent app :)

Thanks a lot for the info btw.

Mario





From adykes at panix.com  Wed Nov  3 16:00:17 2004
From: adykes at panix.com (Al Dykes)
Date: 3 Nov 2004 16:00:17 -0500
Subject: Can someone show me a code example that stuffs data into a web page
	and scrpaes the result ?
Message-ID: <cmbgt1$ged$1@panix5.panix.com>


Can someone point me to some python code that puts data into several
fields in a web page, clicks on a button to send the page and then
looks for a string in the resulting page and gives me the number
string to thr right of it.

Thanks.


-- 
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m 
----


From pete.forman at westerngeco.com  Wed Nov 24 10:26:55 2004
From: pete.forman at westerngeco.com (Pete Forman)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 15:26:55 +0000
Subject: How to get an item from a simple set?
Message-ID: <mzx7xo74.fsf@wgmail2.gatwick.eur.slb.com>

I have a set that contains one item.  What is the best way of getting
at that item?  Using pop() empties the set.  Here is what I've tried.

Python 2.3.4 (#1, Jun 13 2004, 11:21:03)
[GCC 3.3.1 (cygming special)] on cygwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from sets import Set
>>> s = Set(['foo'])
>>> s.copy().pop()
'foo'
>>> [x for x in s][0]
'foo'
>>> s[0]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: unindexable object

-- 
Pete Forman                -./\.-  Disclaimer: This post is originated
WesternGeco                  -./\.-   by myself and does not represent
pete.forman at westerngeco.com    -./\.-   opinion of Schlumberger, Baker
http://petef.port5.com           -./\.-   Hughes or their divisions.


From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Mon Nov 22 07:55:23 2004
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:55:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Telnetlib & Term Types
References: <pan.2004.11.19.20.22.27.435671@svha.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <cnsnjr$8v9$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

Svha <news at svha.demon.co.uk> writes:

>Greetings

>I'd like to do some tweaks on a telnet session as I have no control over
>the server side what so ever.

>However I cannot correctly negotiate a telnet connection to the server.

>I've gone back to basics on the code for simplicity here;

>Linux 2.6 : Python 2.3.4
>Telnetlib Module - http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.4/lib/module-telnetlib.html

>import sys, telnetlib
>tn = telnetlib.Telnet("xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx")
>tn.mt_interact()

>All goes well if I point this code to telnet to 127.0.0.1 (Login etc)

>However if I point the code to telnet to the server I get;
>Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 xxx.xxx.org
>Error opening terminal: network.
>Note - telnet from the console to this address works fine.

>I have limited knowledge of telnet/terminals however I am beginning to
>think that the "server" is trying to negotiate a terminal type
>(vt100/vt220 I think) and telnetlib responds incorrectly/not at all.

>Any thoughts would be much appreciated / is there a more suitable library
>than telnetlib for my purpose?

telnetlib support for this is minimal.  Basically, you'll need to implement
the negotiation yourself using the option_callback() method.  Look at
http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1091.html for the gory details on what's expected.
The negotiation could get quite complex in principle.  One of the other
options it's asking about is for X-server, you may have to deal with that
too.

I've done a small amount of work in this area so I may be able to help, if you
get stuck send me mail.

Eddie


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 15 00:57:15 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:57:15 -0700
Subject: determining the number of output arguments
References: <mailman.6361.1100470915.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cn95k1$bfq$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <cn9gio$cp3$1@sea.gmane.org>

Darren Dale wrote:

> I want to extend the capabilities of an existing function without breaking
> backward compatibility. I used nargin and nargout (number of arguments in
> and out) pretty extensively in Matlab.

Darren, I'm not a matlab expert, but I understand that matlab has a way of
knowing how many arguments a function output is being assigned to in any given
call.  Such functionality simply does not exist in python[*].  Depending
exactly on what you want to do, you can solve the problem in python in
different ways:

1. Pass a flag to your function:

def foo(x,nout=1):
  ...
  if nout==1:
     return a
  elif nout==2:
    return a,b
  else:
    return a,b,c

2. Unpack the output you want:

a,b,c = foo(x)[:3]

3. If you need only a few outputs, use throwaways:

a,_1,_2,b,_3,c=foo(x)  # ignore all _N vars

3. Or take all outputs, and extract only what you need:

out = foo(x)
a,b,c = out[2],out[13],out[356]

Best,

f

[*]  Since we do have real gurus in this group, I should qualify this.  I
suspect that by playing very nasty tricks with sys._getframe(), the dis and the
inspect modules, you probably _could_ get to this information, at least if the
caller is NOT a C extension module.  But I'm not even 100% sure this works, and
it would most certainly the kind of black magic I'm sure you are not asking
about.  But given the level of expertise here, I better cover my ass ;-)



From danperl at rogers.com  Tue Nov 23 20:30:32 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:30:32 -0500
Subject: protocols, inheritance and polymorphism
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>
	<Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<YWKod.137814$HA.44609@attbi_s01>
	<donn-F6A9D8.11153623112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<tqadnT2kAIXJEj7cRVn-hA@rogers.com>
	<donn-F39B72.13183123112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<mqedndyH_YCYUT7cRVn-uQ@rogers.com>
	<donn-D778C1.17100223112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <786dnYZkrq-ieT7cRVn-tw@rogers.com>

"Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message 
news:donn-D778C1.17100223112004 at gnus01.u.washington.edu...
> I'm very sympathetic to the advantages of static typing
> (NB, I read here that Python is strongly, though dynamically,
> typed.  It is not statically typed.)  Rather than embrace
> subtype polymorphism through inheritance, however, I see it
> as evidence that no one has figured out how to make static
> typing really work with OOP.  There has to be a better way
> to do it.

You're right, I should have said statically typed instead of strongly typed.

But did you really mean "no one has figured out how to make *static* typing 
really work with OOP" or did you mean *dynamic* typing?

>   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu 




From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Tue Nov 30 03:59:21 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 08:59:21 -0000
Subject: Get Special Folders (ie Desktop location)
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434C19@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

[colin.steadman at gmail.com]
| I'm just starting out writing Python scripts (in PSP), and need to
| find the location of Windows special folders such as 'My Documents'
| and 'Desktop' so that I can save files in the right place.  Is there
| any method I can use in Python to get these?
| 
| If I were doing this in VBScript it'd be:
| 
|   Dim    WSHShell
|   Set    WSHShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
|   msgbox WSHShell.SpecialFolders("Desktop")
| 

You can do that in Python using the pywin32 extensions
either by using the Wshell objects as you have done:

<code>

import win32com.client
WShell = win32com.client.Dispatch ("WScript.Shell")
WShell.SpecialFolders ("Desktop")

</code>

or by using the shell module from the same package.
I've got a module which wraps the common ones for
convenience:

http://tgolden.sc.sabren.com/python/winshell.html

but essentially what you're doing is this:

<code>
from win32com.shell import shell, shellcon

shell.SHGetPathFromIDList (
  shell.SHGetSpecialFolderLocation (
    0, shellcon.CSIDL_DESKTOP
  )
)
</code>

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
http://www.star.net.uk
________________________________________________________________________


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Fri Nov 26 03:49:35 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:49:35 +0200
Subject: The limitation of the Photon Hypothesis
References: <mailman.6778.1101382547.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <adrdq09f2n64jrf7lhtnmhi1rijseg0827@4ax.com>

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 19:34:42 +0800, rumours say that "hills"
<hills838 at hotmail.com> might have written:

>Please reply to hdgbyi at public.guangzhou.gd.cn.
>Thank you! 
> 
>
>The limitation of the Photon Hypothesis

Damn.  I didn't notice this is comp.lang.photon .  Sorry for my OT posts
so far, people.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
"Tssss!" --Brad Pitt as Achilles in unprecedented Ancient Greek


From philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net  Wed Nov 24 09:17:13 2004
From: philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:17:13 -0600
Subject: looking for a good introduction to OOP
Message-ID: <200411240817.14233.philippecmartin@sbcglobal.net>

There are many UML tutorials out there:

http://pigseye.kennesaw.edu/~dbraun/csis4650/A&D/UML_tutorial/
http://www.parlezuml.com/

......

I believe in drawing before coding :-)

Regards,

Philippe


From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Nov 22 18:24:09 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:24:09 +0100
Subject: unicode question
In-Reply-To: <41a1d80d.718896828@news.oz.net>
References: <qkLnd.22919$jf.19362@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<419fc9b9$0$198$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<419ff7cd_3@newspeer2.tds.net> <41A061E1.8050203@v.loewis.de>
	<KH_nd.23139$jf.19287@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<41a0ab62$0$151$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<Y3hod.23808$jf.11140@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<41a1d80d.718896828@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <41a27514$0$179$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> So, bottom line, as Wolfgang effectively asked by his example, why does print try to coerce
> the __str__ return value to ascii on the way to the ouput encoder, when there is encoding info
> in the unicode object that it is happy to defer reencoding of for sys.stdout.encoding?

[See my other posting:]
Because print invokes str() on its argument, unless the argument is
already a byte string (in which case it prints it directly), or a
Unicode string (in which case it encodes it with the stream encoding).
It is str(y) that fails, not the printing.

Regards,
Martin


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Tue Nov 16 10:03:42 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:03:42 -0500
Subject: adaptation
In-Reply-To: <cxomd.93401$HA.21918@attbi_s01>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>	<20041114200132.20649.1982992758.divmod.quotient.5222@ohm>	<mailman.6390.1100553070.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gnbf8z.mirt8m687hvbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.6397.1100570319.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gnc2jt.uw5i19s61aieN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.6409.1100591151.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gncdvv.1y2msbz1yc1gaeN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cxomd.93401$HA.21918@attbi_s01>
Message-ID: <419A16CE.3050907@bellsouth.net>

Bryan wrote:

> alex,
>
> you've mentioned several times the concept of adapting parameters to a 
> method.  but i'm not able to understand your few examples.  can you go 
> more into depth (and with simpler examples) on this topic?
>
> thanks,
>
> bryan

Bryan,

Thanks for asking this.  You aren't alone in wanting to know more.

Jeremy


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Nov 30 03:05:49 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:05:49 +0100
Subject: python API wrapper for C++ API
References: <7A977E70F2DA7446B6F631A8A66CF18F01754C41@deep.cadtech>
Message-ID: <coh9kt$g1u$1@sea.gmane.org>

Mark Doberenz wrote:

> I'm working with a real-time 3D program called Deep Creator, and it has
> a C++ API written for it.  I'm wondering what it would take to create a
> Python wrapper that would allow me to write Python programs that would
> call the C++ API.

start here:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/IntegratingPythonWithOtherLanguages

</F> 





From uche at ogbuji.net  Sat Nov  6 21:43:09 2004
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: 6 Nov 2004 18:43:09 -0800
Subject: document as child in DOM ??
References: <mailman.5827.1099417246.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d116fbae.0411061843.2aea78b1@posting.google.com>

Juliano Freitas <jubafre at atlas.ucpel.tche.br> wrote in message news:<mailman.5827.1099417246.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> I have a document as a string:
> 
> xmltext = """<?xml version='1.0'?>
> <root>
> 	<parara>text</parara>
> </root>"""
> 
> then i transform the string into a document with fromString method.
> 
> i want tu put this "xmltext" as a child to another document called
> "swdb"?
> how can i do this??
> 
> <swdb>
>   <root>
> 	<parara>text</parara>
>   </root>
> ...
> </swdb>
> 
> i tryed the importNode and appendNode, but i dont if i'm doing right!

I think you want something like the following (pseudocode):

1) parse "root" document into root_dom
2) new_docelem = root_dom.createElementNS(None, 'swdb')
3) old_docelem = root_dom.documentElement
4) root_dom.documentElement = new_docelem
5) new_docelem.appendChild(old_docelem)

There.  Now doesn't DOM just completely suck?  :-)

If this doesn't work, please post specific error messages or
unexpected results so we can hekp you better.

-- 
Uche Ogbuji                                    Fourthought, Inc.
http://uche.ogbuji.net    http://4Suite.org    http://fourthought.com
A hands-on introduction to ISO Schematron -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/edu/x-dw-xschematron-i.html
Schematron abstract patterns -
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-stron.html
Wrestling HTML (using Python) -
http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2004/09/08/pyxml.html
XML's growing pains - http://www.adtmag.com/article.asp?id=10196
XMLOpen and more XML Hacks -
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-think27.html
A survey of XML standards -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-stand4/


From craig at postnewspapers.com.au  Fri Nov 19 10:39:11 2004
From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:39:11 +0800
Subject: Python with Apache 2.0
In-Reply-To: <1100877489.32379.7.camel@odin>
References: <89cc6e1f.0411190632.2976b3e1@posting.google.com>
	<1100877489.32379.7.camel@odin>
Message-ID: <1100878750.5029.1.camel@rasputin.localnet>

On Fri, 2004-11-19 at 23:18, Andrew James wrote:
> Chang,
> I guess it depends whether you're using Python in a CGI or within
> mod_python. Could you give us a little more information, or check the
> mod_python documentation?

If it turns out that mod_python can't handle it, perhaps FCGI / SCGI
might  be worth examining, too...

--
Craig Ringer



From tim.peters at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 21:41:57 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:41:57 -0500
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
In-Reply-To: <slrncponhe.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<4195419b.303035081@news.oz.net>
	<slrncpgm80.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6381.1100534178.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpjcga.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6465.1100663898.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpmejc.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6506.1100723876.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncponhe.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <1f7befae041118184163d47674@mail.gmail.com>

...

[Antoon Pardon]
> Sure but that is not enough is it? The work for letting one thread
> raise an exception in an other thread is done.

Are you talking about the internal PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc gimmick? 
If so, that's got nothing to do with signals.  If that's all you want,
say so, and leave signals out of it.

As to whether the work is done, emphatically no, it isn't.  I hadn't
looked at its implementation before, so just did.  That uncovered a
critical bug "by eyeball", which may delay the release of Python 2.4. 
Happy now <wink>?

Seriously, that's just an error in the C coding.  The work for a
Python-level feature hasn't even begun.  I'd guess it's about 5% of
the way there (believe it or not, writing C code is typically the
least time-consuming part of any language feature).

If you want to do that, fine.  Then because this functionality is
controversial, it needs a PEP.  That isn't "punishment", it's that
controversial decisions need a record of design rationale, and PEPs
are Python's way of making such records.  The Python-level API also
needs design and debate.  For example, the C-level API takes a thread
ID as argument, but that's a poor fit with threading.py's higher-level
view of threads.  In this case it probably needs a higher-level API. 
The C-level API also a bizarre gimmick where you're supposed to do an
obscure dance if the function returns a value greater than 1.  Offhand
I have no idea what that's all about, but it's clearly unacceptable
for a Python-level function (maybe some good news:  I suspect that
when the critical bug just found is fixed, that fix will automatically
stop the indeterminism driving the need for the goofy API dance). 
Thought also needs to be given to whether other implementations of
Python *can* supply this gimmick.  It's unclear to me.  The CPython
implementation of it is very simple, but relies in all respects on
implementation details unique to CPython (primarily the GIL, and that
there's an exhaustive linked list of thread states to crawl over).  A
new Python-level function also needs documentation, and a good test
suite.  The C-level API here isn't tested at all, which isn't good.

> But it still didn't get really in the language.

Of course it wasn't.  As above, this isn't anywhere yet near being a
language-level feature.  To judge from Guido's checkin comment, he was
also reluctant to add it even at the C level, which may (or may not)
be another battle.  FWIW, it's fine by me if this got exposed at the
Python level.  People will certainly get themselves in trouble by
using it, but the CPython implementation of this is so toothless I
don't think they'll be able to screw up internal states of the
platform C library by, e.g., leaving *its* synch gimmicks in
ill-defined states when they provoke a Python thread "externally" into
async surprises.

> All that was provided was the C interface and people who want to use
> it must provide the python interface themselves.

Yes.  And looking at the history, the C interface was in fact all that
was asked for at the time.

...

> I understand, but that also means one can't expect short term
> contributors to put time in this, because they are likely to
> see their time invested in this, going to waste.

That's their call.  Beyond noting that few things are achieved by
those who give up easily, "that's life".

> Now I may invest some time in this anyway, purely for my own
> interest. The question I have is, will I just have to fight
> the normal signal behaviour or do I have to fight python as
> well.

I'm confused now.  Up until this point, it appeared that "this", in
this message, was talking about the lack of access to
PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc from the Python level.  If so, that's got
nothing to do with signals, at least not in CPython.  The
implementation doesn't use signals, and is 100% portable exactly the
way it is.  And it's very simple.  Nobody can object to *this*
function on porting or maintenance-burden grounds.  They may object to
it on other grounds.

> To be more specific, the documentation of the signal
> module states the following.
> 
>   ... only the main thread can set a new signal handler, and the main
>   thread will be the only one to receive signals (this is enforced by
>   the Python signal module, even if the underlying thread implementa-
>   tion supports sending signals to individual threads).
> 
> The question I have is the following. That the main thread is the only
> one to receive signals, is that purely implemented in the signal module
> or is there some interpreter magic that supports this, which can
> cause problems for an alternative signal module.

Read the code?  As I said before, I pay no attention to the signal
module, and the only way I could answer these questions is by studying
the code too.  Maybe someone else here already knows, and will chip
in.


From calmar at calmar.ws  Sun Nov 14 12:12:42 2004
From: calmar at calmar.ws (calmar)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 18:12:42 +0100
Subject: using python on the command line with 'here-documents' and pipes
Message-ID: <slrncpf4ga.1u7.calmar@news.calmar.ws>

Hi all,

I would like to use python for a replacement for some binutils. I would
like to be able to pipe things into python. Actually I would not like
writing a 'script' to handle the input, but write the python commands
right onto the command line.

It would be possible to use here-documents (for having the correct
identation during e.g while loops) for writing python code on
the fly, but then how and where to get the pipe output:

echo -e 'line1\nline2' | python <<EOF  ....

Does not really work...

Would anybody have an idea how to use python like e.g. awk etc. As a
tool within, where I can handle the stdin data, and write the code right
there (e.g. with here documents)?


thanks a lot
calmar

-- 
  calmar
          (o_  It rocks: LINUX + Command-Line-Interface
          //\
          V_/_                     http://www.calmar.ws


From riko.wichmann at remove-this.desy.de  Fri Nov 19 10:25:43 2004
From: riko.wichmann at remove-this.desy.de (Riko Wichmann)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:25:43 +0100
Subject: activating history in Python 2.3.4
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6599.1100877294.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cnkd0b$25i72$1@claire.desy.de>	<mailman.6583.1100857306.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cnkpoa$25vq0$1@claire.desy.de>
	<mailman.6599.1100877294.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cnl3cj$26f18$1@claire.desy.de>

Hi Andrew,

nope, it's not the terminal, xterm, konsole and gnome-terminal behave 
the same.

- Riko

Andrew James wrote:
> Gerhard,
> I wonder if it's your terminal that is causing the problems? If you're
> using xterm, try switching to aterm, konsole or gnome-terminal and see
> if the behaviour is the same.
> 
> Andrew


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Nov  3 19:03:54 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 16:03:54 -0800
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5878.1099521520.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5825.1099416401.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cthk6t3tjcs.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
	<mailman.5878.1099521520.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10ois9flj489d5e@corp.supernews.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

>Zunbeltz Izaola <zunbeltz at wm.lc.ehu.es.XXX> wrote:
>  
>
>>If I put some code after the .start() method the queue will be
>>empty. Do I need to insert a infinite loop to see when the exception
>>is raised?
>>    
>>
>
>In your main thread (the one handling the GUI), you can set up a
>wx.Timer() whose bound event checks the queue every second or so.
>
>As another poster mentioned, you can also post events to the GUI, which
>can either say "there is an exception traceback in the queue" or "here
>is the exception traceback".
>  
>

Another possibility is to check the queue in an idle-event handler.  
When you place something in the queue, you can call wx.WakeUpIdle() to 
ensure that the main thread will do idle processing at its soonest 
opportunity.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From sw at wordtech-software.com  Thu Nov 25 21:53:31 2004
From: sw at wordtech-software.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 21:53:31 -0500
Subject: crash when loading a lib on OS X
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6705.1101157593.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6705.1101157593.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <NUwpd.4361$2e.3083@fe37.usenetserver.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

What were you trying to do? What program were you trying to run? We need
more than a crash dump to help with this.

Christoph Pingel wrote:
| Can anybody tell me what's going on here (or give me a pointer where to
| start looking):
|
| Nov 22 18:05:03 localhost crashdump: Unable to determine
| CPSProcessSerNum pid: 1230 name: python
|
| This is form python.crash.log
|
| ------
|
| Command: python
| Path:    /usr/bin/python
| Version: ??? (???)
| PID:     1230
| Thread:  0
|
| Exception:  EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
| Codes:      KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x00000004
|
| Thread 0 Crashed:
| 0   org.python.python               0x10094c4c PyErr_NewException +
| 0x18c (errors.c:544)
| 1   orange.so                       0x020223b8 makeExceptionClass(char*,
| char*, _object*) + 0x94
| 2   orange.so                       0x021c8c74 initorange + 0x30
| 3   org.python.Python.framework     0x95fc1bc4
| _PyImport_LoadDynamicModule + 0xcc
| 4   org.python.Python.framework     0x95fbf7a4 PyImport_ExecCodeModuleEx
| + 0x17b8
| 5   org.python.Python.framework     0x95fc08c4 PyImport_ImportModuleEx +
| 0x930
| 6   org.python.Python.framework     0x95fc02e0 PyImport_ImportModuleEx +
| 0x34c
| 7   org.python.Python.framework     0x95fbfe00 PyImport_ImportModule +
0xc8
| 8   org.python.Python.framework     0x95fbffd4 PyImport_ImportModuleEx +
| 0x40
| 9   org.python.Python.framework     0x95f9cbf0 _PyUnicodeUCS2_IsAlpha +
| 0x90
| 10  org.python.Python.framework     0x95f4a8d0 PyObject_Call + 0x30
| 11  org.python.Python.framework     0x95fa91ec
| PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords + 0x100
| 12  org.python.Python.framework     0x95fa6984 PyEval_EvalCode + 0x2280
| 13  org.python.Python.framework     0x95fa7e30 PyEval_EvalCodeEx + 0x850
| 14  org.python.Python.framework     0x95fa4734 PyEval_EvalCode + 0x30
| 15  org.python.Python.framework     0x95fc85f0 PyRun_FileExFlags + 0xe4
| 16  org.python.Python.framework     0x95fc7354 PyRun_InteractiveOneFlags
| + 0x1f0
| 17  org.python.Python.framework     0x95fc713c
| PyRun_InteractiveLoopFlags + 0x10c
| 18  org.python.Python.framework     0x95fc6fd4 PyRun_AnyFileExFlags + 0x54
| 19  org.python.Python.framework     0x95fd1ec0 Py_Main + 0x7cc
| 20  python                          0x00003c78 start + 0x1bc
| 21  python                          0x00003aec start + 0x30
|
| ------
|
| I'm afraid that something's wrong with my system, but I had a hard time
| googling for getCPSProcessSerNum: it returned 0 results. Same at Apple's
| site...
|
| What does CPS mean?
|
| Thanks for any input,
| best,
| Christoph


- --
Kevin Walzer, PhD
WordTech Software--Open Source Applications and Packages for OS X
http://www.wordtech-software.com
http://www.smallbizmac.com
http://www.kevin-walzer.com
mailto:sw at wordtech-software.com
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iD8DBQFBppqqJmdQs+6YVcoRApzqAJ9tyPBbzKKuhjys6YXNUxzXpNmhgQCgg3/5
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From claird at lairds.us  Fri Nov  5 19:08:04 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 00:08:04 GMT
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<pan.2004.11.05.09.23.39.248718@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <i0gt52-49s.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <pan.2004.11.05.09.23.39.248718 at yahoo.com>,
John Doe  <atterdan at yahoo.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Operating Systems. Some time in 1999 (I think) IBM developed a jit or
>Just In Time compiler for Java (Apple invented the JIT concept earlier to
>make 68000 code work on their new line of PowerPC Macs). 
			.
			.
			.
John Aycock traces the technique back at least to 1960 <URL:
http://user.it.uu.se/~kostis/Teaching/KT2-04/jit_survey.pdf >.


From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Thu Nov 25 13:54:12 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 15:54:12 -0300
Subject: dictionary initialization
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7C5F@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca]

#-     if i in a: a[i] += 1
#-     else: a[i] = 1

a[i] = a.get(i, 0) + 1

I don't like to be non polite, but following the terms of your mail, RTFM.

.	Facundo
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From news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com  Mon Nov 22 11:48:15 2004
From: news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com (Will McGugan)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:48:15 +0000
Subject: for(each) element aliasing
In-Reply-To: <2844q0l5ccahj6poumolghrcm2u2boo9ka@4ax.com>
References: <2844q0l5ccahj6poumolghrcm2u2boo9ka@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <41a21850$0$1075$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>

Matija Papec wrote:
> I know how to alter the list via list indicies but I would like to know if
> there is posibility to write in Python something like:
> 
> my @arr = 1..3;
> for my $element (@arr) {
>   $element *= 2;
> }
> print "@arr\n";
> 
> and get the result
> -------
> 2 4 6
> 
> 

Something like this?

arr= range(1,4)
for index, value in enumerate( arr):
	arr[index]*= 2

print arr

Regards,

Will McGugan


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Thu Nov  4 00:12:50 2004
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 23:12:50 -0600
Subject: pep 336:  Make None Callable
In-Reply-To: <cmcarp$5u7$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com> <cmcarp$5u7$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <200411032312.50280.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Wednesday 03 November 2004 10:23 pm, Terry Reedy wrote:
> "The Eternal Squire" <eternalsquire at comcast.net> wrote in message 
> news:dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw at comcast.com...
> > PEP: 336
> > Abstract
> >     None should be a callable object that when called with any
> >     arguments has no side effect and returns None.
> 
> Please no.  The None object, by definition, is an object with no value, no 
> behavior (except compares), and no specific attributes (other than those 
> common to all descendents of object).  That one can currently compare None 
> to other objects can be considered a bug, and this might go away in the 
> future.

Maybe. But all this requires, really, is to make None fail silently when
called instead of raising an error as it does now.  That could be seen
as quite consistent with its null nature, IMHO.

> Anyone who wants a null function can write it in about 20 keypresses, and 
> include it in a utility module if one has one.

True, and I have done so. But that's "20 keypresses" repeated a lot. And
what's it called? "do_nothing()" (my usual name), "null_function()", 
"null()", "empty()", "NoneFunc()" etc?  Furthermore, it's much more obvious
to store "None" when you want nothing to happen.  I usually instead
provide code in the caller to check for a None (or generic "False")
state before calling, like so:

if func: func()

Is there a good use case where this rather concise idiom won't do?
 
> It would be more sensible to promote the addition to builtins of a 
> predefined null function -- one somewhat equivalent to 0, [], and {}.

Maybe, but I think it's worth asking -- what use is the traceback from
the None object when it is called?  Does it help in QA of code?  Is
there a common idiom that would be broken by a callable None?

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From grzegorz at ece.ualberta.ca  Mon Nov  1 17:18:22 2004
From: grzegorz at ece.ualberta.ca (Grzegorz Dostatni)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:18:22 -0500
Subject: Will code for Carnaval?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411011711480.3809-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>


Hello.

First: Apologies to everyone. I hate spaming, but in this case I'm totally
out of ideas. In any case, I feel I can trust anyone who programs in
Python, thus I am posting this message here.

Is there anyone here from Brazil? I would love to come and experience the
Carnival in Rio de Janeiro, but the cost of accomodation is just insane.
Are there any local tips/tricks I might employ? I will most likely be
travelling alone, but I have looked at apartaments for rent as well as
hotels?

Aside from that, is there anything else I should know about the Carnival?
Please send the mail to me directly, as I don't want to spam this
newsgroup anymore.

Greg


"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."
	- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)




From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 15 07:01:05 2004
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 04:01:05 -0800
Subject: Is a list an instance of a class?
References: <4197c013$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0411150401.2b215499@posting.google.com>

Kent Johnson <kent3737 at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<4197c013$1_1 at newspeer2.tds.net>...
> In the Python tutorial section 9.1, it says, "the word ``object'' in 
> Python does not necessarily mean a class instance. Like C++ and 
> Modula-3, and unlike Smalltalk, not all types in Python are classes: the 
> basic built-in types like integers and lists are not, and even somewhat 
> more exotic types like files aren't."
> 
> Is this still correct or was it made obsolete by Python 2.2? Lists and 
> files have __class__ attributes, at least:

For all practical purposes, it's obsolete.  You can inherit from "non-classes" now.

>>> class TallyMarks(int):
...    def __repr__(self):
...       return 'I' * self
...
>>> TallyMarks(12)
IIIIIIIIIIII


>  >>> [].__class__
>  <type 'list'>
>  >>> f = open('ThreadQueue.py')
>  >>> f.__class__
> <type 'file'>
> 
> So do integers and floats, though you have to ask nicely for an int:
>  >>> 1.__class__
>    File "<stdin>", line 1
>      1.__class__
>                ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>  >>> x=1
>  >>> x.__class__
>  <type 'int'>

You don't have to ask *that* nicely.

>>> 1 .__class__  # notice the space
<type 'int'>


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Mon Nov  8 09:57:57 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 09:57:57 -0500
Subject: write-time call tree?
Message-ID: <418F8975.2080406@bellsouth.net>

Does anyone know of a tool that will look at a Python source file 
(without executing the file - just analyzing it) and generate a report of

    * functions, classes, methods defined
    * objects created
    * method/function calls (I'm really looking for a map of which calls
      were made from within which functions/methods), preferably with
      the option of filtering which calls to trace
    * trace imports if possible, show blank stub if an ImportError is
      encountered, again, preferably with the option to filter which
      imports to trace

I found some tools that worked at runtime (trace.py, maybe PyChecker), 
but I'm not sure they have the functionality I need even if collecting 
the data at runtime were what I am looking for.  I would obviously 
prefer an open souce/free solution, but if anyone knows of a 
commercially developed tool, I might be able to convince the company to 
spring for it.

Jeremy Jones
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From mwm at mired.org  Fri Nov  5 01:49:29 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 00:49:29 -0600
Subject: Extract Title from HTML documents
References: <cme4ae$12ci$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <x7r7n8sscm.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Nickolay Kolev <nmkolev at uni-bonn.de> writes:

> Hi all,
>
> I am looking for a way to extract the titles of HTML documents. I have
> made an honest attempt at doing it, and it even works. Is there an
> easier (faster / more efficient / clearer) way?
>
> ------------ START SCRIPT --------------------
>
> #!/usr/bin/python
>
> import sgmllib
>
> class MyParser(sgmllib.SGMLParser):
>
>      inside_title = False
>      title = ''
>
>      def start_title(self, attrs):
>          self.inside_title = True
>
>      def end_title(self):
>          self.inside_title = False
>
>      def handle_data(self, data):
>          if self.inside_title and data:
>              self.title = self.title + data + ' '

I'm pretty sure the trailing "+ ' '" is wrong. At least I never needed
it when I was using sgmllib for this kind of thing.

    <mike

> p = MyParser()
> p.feed(file('test.html').read())
> p.close()
> print p.title.strip()
>
> ---------------- END SCRIPT -------------------------
>
>
> Many thanks in advance!
>
> Best regards,
> Nickolay Kolev

-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From lashkariNO at SPAMworldviz.com  Mon Nov  8 16:18:45 2004
From: lashkariNO at SPAMworldviz.com (Farshid Lashkari)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 21:18:45 GMT
Subject: Problem flushing stderr in embedded python
Message-ID: <VoRjd.33$iY3.7@trnddc01>

Hi,

My application has python embedded into it. I noticed that when I run any
python code the output is buffered and doesn't get flushed until my
application exits. To fix this I simply flush sys.stdout and sys.stderr
every once in while by using the following code:

//Get handle to python stdout file and flush it
PyObject *pyStdout = PySys_GetObject("stdout");
if(pyStdout && PyFile_Check(pyStdout)) {
    PyObject *result = PyObject_CallMethod(pyStdout,"flush",NULL);
    Py_XDECREF(result);
}

//Get handle to python stderr file and flush it
PyObject *pyStderr = PySys_GetObject("stderr");
if(pyStderr && PyFile_Check(pyStderr)) {
    PyObject *result = PyObject_CallMethod(pyStderr,"flush",NULL);
    Py_XDECREF(result);
}

This works for stdout but not for stderr. In order to flush stderr I have to
do:

PyRun_SimpleString("sys.stderr.flush()");

Does anybody know why my first method doesn't work with stderr? I checked
and PyObject_CallMethod is being called for both objects and no errors are
occuring. The solution I have is acceptable, but I would still like to know
why my first method didn't work.

BTW, I'm running python 2.3 on Windows XP

Thanks,

Farshid




From peter.mosley at talk21.com  Mon Nov 22 04:38:40 2004
From: peter.mosley at talk21.com (Peter)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 01:38:40 -0800
Subject: clear screen / locate cursor
Message-ID: <72c8d50d.0411220138.621971d9@posting.google.com>

I am just trying to learn python, to use for some fairly basic command
line utilities which will run in either Windows/DOS or Linux. I cannot
find a platform neutral way of manipulating the screen. I don't want
to do anything complex, but just:-

1. Clear the screen
2. Print a string at an arbitrary x,y position
3. Receive a single key stroke

It seems that under Linux the curses module will do all this and more
(though I haven't tried it), but despite Python documentation curses
does not seem to be available under DOS. I have solved the 'clear
screen' problem with the code below, but made no progress on the other
two:-

def cls():
   a=os.name
   if a=='posix':                  #linux
      os.system('clear')
   elif a=='nt':                   #windows
      os.system('cls')
   else:                           #unknown
      print 
      print ('='*(78-len(a)))+a
      print

Is this the best solution? Can anyone help with the others?  I have
tried searching python documentation and this newsgroup, but found no
pointers.  It can't be difficult (for the experts!) - other cross
platform languages such as Yabasic and Euphoria seem to have such a
facility, so what am I missing?

The email address above was genuine once but has long been abandoned
to spam.  Pleae reply via newsgroup or to

   peter dot mosley at spamguardnorth dot org after removing spamguard

Thanks in advance for any help.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Nov  4 19:14:22 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 16:14:22 -0800
Subject: exec code in "globaldict"
In-Reply-To: <Nizid.55896$z77.3059@news.chello.at>
References: <Nizid.55896$z77.3059@news.chello.at>
Message-ID: <20041104160914.F81E.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Gerald Senarclens de Grancy <santa at sbox.tugraz.at> wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> I kept searching my online and offline python ressources to figure out 
> how to execute some code in the global dictionary. Basically I'm reading 
> a options file that defines some variables. I want to access those 
> variables throughout my whole project, so I need them in the global 
> dictionary. Now I think I'm plainly too stupid to figure out what to 
> write in place of the word "globaldict" to have my definitions in this dict.

There is not technically a fully 'global dictionary', but
__builtins__.__dict__ comes close.  Be careful with it.

What is better is to just have a preferences module of some type...

#preferences.py
pref1 = 'hello'
...

#in every other module
import preferences

preferences.pref1
...

 - Josiah



From foo at bar.com  Mon Nov 22 01:39:37 2004
From: foo at bar.com (Steve Menard)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 01:39:37 -0500
Subject: Python 2.4 and Visual C++ Express
Message-ID: <XQfod.15475$3u6.726077@wagner.videotron.net>

I will soon have to write start providing Python extensions, in binary 
form, for python 2.4, and I have a few questions.

I have Visual C++ 6 installed, which works great for python 2.3.

I do not have access to Visual C++ 2003, which seems to be the compiler 
to be used with Python 2.4. Unless I am mistaken, the free command-line 
compiler is not a solution, as it cannot produce binaries that 
dynamically link the C runtime.

I have downloaded the Visual C++ 2004 "express" from the Microsoft.site.

Now my question is, will I be able to compile Python 2.4 extension if I 
use the Visual C++ 2004? And since I will be distributing the extension 
for both Python 2.3 and 2.4, will distutil choose the right compiler ?

Before some people mention MingW and Cygnus, I know and use them. 
However, for redistributing I feel it safer to use the Microsoft compilers.

Thanks for any help,

Steve


From alanmk at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 17 11:42:58 2004
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:42:58 +0000
Subject: ruby on rails ... python on ?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6494.1100709037.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>	<mailman.5772.1099330973.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cnftkp$doc$1@newslocal.mitre.org>
	<mailman.6494.1100709037.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <V9Lmd.42083$Z14.16762@news.indigo.ie>

[Jeff Blaine]
>> 6yr-Python-fanatic-feeling-the-ruby-pull

[Dave Brueck]
> Like I said before - if you're feeling the Ruby pull, go for it. I tried 
> Ruby and rather strongly disliked it. If, instead, you're feeling the 
> Rails pull (you feel the ideas behind Rails have merit), then why not 
> just port it to Python?

Or talk to someone who has already started. Peter Hunt declared to the 
web-sig recently that he's interested in developing a python-on-rails, 
which would also be WSGI compatible.

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/web-sig/2004-November/001042.html

Peter obviously hopes to capitalize on the portability of WSGI 
middleware components.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
------------------------------------------------------
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/contact/alan


From cabria at fta.uva.es  Tue Nov  2 19:44:02 2004
From: cabria at fta.uva.es (Iván Cabria)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 19:44:02 MET
Subject: sh: test: argument expected
Message-ID: <200411021844.iA2If7Bt017133@relay.uva.es>

Hi,

I am a new user of python. I ran 
a python script and I got the 
following message:

sh: test: argument expected

I found that this error came from a 
line in the script:
energy = atoms.GetPotentialEnergy()

I looked for a solution to this 
problem in Internet and I found  
(http://www.experts-exchange.com/Operating_Systems/Unix/Q_20706303.html)
that the problem was that the variable 
was not initialised. I also found 
that the bash shell initialises the variables 
automatically and the Bourne shell (sh) does not.
(http://www.experts-exchange.com/Operating_Systems/Unix/Q_20706303.html)

I suppose that 'sh:' in the error message 
means that the script is using the Bourne shell, 
and hence, I understand the message error.

However, I was using the bash shell in the computer 
I ran the script, not 
the Bourne shell (sh). Hence, I do not 
understand the 'sh:' in the error message.
Could be that python scripts are using by default the 
Bourne shell?

The first line of the python script is:
#!/usr/bin/env python

Thanks in advance.




Iv?n Cabria
Departamento de F?sica Te?rica
Facultad de Ciencias
Universidad de Valladolid
Paseo del Prado de la Magdalena s/n
47005 Valladolid
SPAIN
Phone: 34-983-184436
Fax:   34-983-423013
e-mail: cabria at fta.uva.es
web page:
http://lab2.fam.cie.uva.es/~cabria



From johnpote at blueyonder.co.uk  Tue Nov  9 12:41:56 2004
From: johnpote at blueyonder.co.uk (John Pote)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 17:41:56 GMT
Subject: Tkinter callback caused abnormal program termination
Message-ID: <Ej7kd.5790$Q7.1647@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

Running my programme in Python 2.3.4 I received the following msg in the 
consol :-
(Pent III running W2K prof)

"""
Exception in Tkinter callback
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "c:\apps\python\234\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1345, in __call__
    return self.func(*args)
  File "c:\apps\python\234\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 459, in callit
    self.deletecommand(tmp[0])
AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'deletecommand'
UpdateStringProc should not be invoked for type option

abnormal program termination
"""
There was no other traceback information.

Could this be related to lines of the ilk:-
  self.infoSpd.config(text="%d.%01d"%spd)
where infoSpd is a Tkinter Label object placed using the grid manager.

Thousands of these updates were performed so the labels displayed progress 
through a memory dump of a system accessed through a serial port.

I had trouble before with Python versions 2.2.1 and 2.2.3 where commenting 
out these Label updates stopped the system crashing and it was happy to run 
for hours performing tests on the external hardware. (an embedded data 
logger I'm developing)

Anyone any thoughts?

John 




From mike at hobbshouse.org  Thu Nov  4 16:31:06 2004
From: mike at hobbshouse.org (Michael Hobbs)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 21:31:06 -0000
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmp6xu.zmiw6gs3250sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5890.1099529745.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmpyz8.11h86a71kjmdttN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5916.1099587353.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdntd$788$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5920.1099589545.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdrhf$d2c$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5925.1099594558.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10ol7sqdr84k619@corp.supernews.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
> My point here is that I think in most code, even when people do a bunch of
> bit-twiddling, they have a single underlying structure in mind, and therefore
> you see them treat the bits as one of two things: (1) The sequence of bits, i.e.
> the untyped memory block, or (2) the intended structure.  IMHO, an example of
> taking advantage of weak-typing would be a case where you treat the bits as
> three different things: the sequence of bits, and two (mutually exclusive)
> intended structures.

One word: union



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Tue Nov 23 11:47:09 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 17:47:09 +0100
Subject: Using alternative PyObject* in dynamically created classes
References: <tyfbrdu1b2m.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyf653whfyi.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch> <brdowta0.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <tyfu0rgfr76.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:
> 
> > Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:

> >> So my first attempt merely resets tp_basicsize to the size of my
> >> alternative instance struct, as soon as the class is created. This
> >> goes horribly wrong when instances of the class are deallocated, but I
> >> can't see why.

OK ... type_new augments the size it finds in tp_basicsize with space
for extra slots ... so resetting tp_basicsize once the type has been
created is indeed too late.

> Can't you simply create a new, subclassable Python type with an
> additonal void* slot, and derive your classes from it?  Where's the
> problem?

You mean statically create an extension type with the appropriate size
in the tp_basicsize, and dynamically create types which inherit from
it?

Sounds like it should work.

I'll give it a go, as I now see that my initial approach is guaranteed
to be wrong.

Thanks.


From syd.diamond at gmail.com  Wed Nov  3 11:18:36 2004
From: syd.diamond at gmail.com (syd)
Date: 3 Nov 2004 08:18:36 -0800
Subject: general class functions
References: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>
	<kj9eo0hkjem9pbj3pvdbpea6gpl06ighsj@4ax.com>
	<a76ba315.0411021009.46b06459@posting.google.com>
	<FPWdnS8cTNnreBrcRVn-qw@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <a76ba315.0411030818.9457fe3@posting.google.com>

"Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote in message 
> >>>> library.get_continent('Europe')
> This line creates and returns an instance of Library.  I assume that you 
> imported foo in a python session and then you executed that line.  That 
> results in a call to Library.__repr__( ), which is not defined.  First of 
> all, I recommend you change class Library to subclass from object.  That's 
> just good practice in general and in this case it will give you a default 
> __repr__( ) method.  But that's probably not what you want.  What you 
> probably want is to still use a line like:
>     print library.getContinent('Europe').getNameList()
> Otherwise, library.get_continent('Europe') is going to print something like:
>     <__main__.Library object at 0x00A9F430>

You're 100% right, Dan -- I meant to have the "getNameList()" tacked
on.

But more importantly, why is subclassing object a good practice in
general?  I see under dir(object) that you get some good default
methods.  I looked under the documentation, but could not find a good
specific examples as to why this was a good practice.  Can you
elaborate, please?


From aldo at nullcube.com  Tue Nov 16 01:14:43 2004
From: aldo at nullcube.com (Aldo Cortesi)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:14:43 +1100
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] PyOpenBSD
Message-ID: <20041116061443.GA449@nullcube.com>


PyOpenBSD


PyOpenBSD is an extensive set of Python bindings for
libraries and functionality specific to the OpenBSD
operating system. PyOpenBSD's capabilities include interface
manipulation, extensive access to network statistics, an
interface to kernel events through kqueues, arbitrary
network packet parsing and manipulation, and complete pcap
bindings. For more information, please see the manual linked
from the PyOpenBSD page.

Please note that this is an Alpha release, intended mostly
to invite participation and comments from the Python and
OpenBSD communities.


http://www.nullcube.com/software/pyopenbsd.html






-- 
Aldo Cortesi
aldo at nullcube.com
http://www.nullcube.com
Off: (02) 9283 1131
Mob: 0419 492 863


From ml at dynkin.com  Sat Nov  6 17:48:27 2004
From: ml at dynkin.com (George Yoshida)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 07:48:27 +0900
Subject: supressing '\n' at the end
In-Reply-To: <418d4bc3$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <337e6cd5.0411061352.62fe8bfc@posting.google.com>
	<418d4bc3$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <cmjkao$22pk$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>

Irmen de Jong wrote:
  > Where does the \n come from? I presume the 'aString' object contains
> it. Then you can do:
> 
> file.write(aString[:-1])
> 
> (but only if aString always contains a '\n' at the end, ofcourse)

   file.write(aString.rstrip('\n'))

seemes more natural and safer to me.

-- George


From roy at panix.com  Sun Nov  7 13:10:38 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 13:10:38 -0500
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au> <alGid.47522$HA.14125@attbi_s01>
	<cml9h2$q70$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<1gmw2us.eerwmfbnb899N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <roy-43B82D.13103807112004@reader1.panix.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

> file('sorted_autoexec.bak','w').writelines(sorted(file('autoexec.bat')))
> 
> 73 chars in one line.  Yeah, I cheated -- I _would_ normally put a space
> after the comma, making the real total into seventyFOUR...

I understand what you're doing with the above one-liner, but I don't 
think that's the best way to write it.  Unless there's some over-riding 
efficiency requirement, I'm always going to vote for easier to read over 
fewer characters.

Chaining all those operations together into one big line makes it (IMHO) 
more difficult to understand what's going on, especially since it's a 
mix of method calls and global function calls.  To understand the 
sequence of operations, you need to read from the inside-out starting 
from two different places, then put those two conceptual units together 
from left-to-right.

You could refactor this in a multitude of ways, with varying levels of 
compactness or verbosity, depending on how many intermediate variables 
you want to use.  I think I would go for something like:

inFile = file ('autoexec.bat')
outFile = file ('sorted_autoexec.bak', 'w')
outFile.writelines (sorted (inFile))

Some would say that the intermediate variables just add bulk, but I 
think they provide conceptual punctuation, i.e. a place for the reader 
to say, "OK, I understand that chunk, now let's see what the next chunk 
does".

> one can almost see you writing it with a quill dipped in
> ink, at a carved oak desk, on your steam-powered computer.  Charming!
> 
> Should you ever decide to move into the 21st century, though, don't
> worry: Python will be there to help you do so.

I know you didn't write those lines with me in mind, but I can't help 
chuckle over them.  I'm tagged as a luddite by my co-workers because I 
still don't have a cell phone or a palm pilot or an MP-3 player, not to 
mention that I know what the program drum is used for on an 029 card 
punch.  I am however typing this from my wireless PowerBook :-)


From philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net  Sun Nov 21 11:49:17 2004
From: philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:49:17 -0600
Subject: Small Database Needed
Message-ID: <200411211049.18070.philippecmartin@sbcglobal.net>

>I'm looking at implementing DB in my program for
>analysis of CAD (STL Files).  This database will
>require the basic functionality.

Hi,

You might want to look at the shelve module.

Regards,

Philippe


From yura_chempty at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 23 15:38:17 2004
From: yura_chempty at yahoo.com (Yury [remove empty])
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 22:38:17 +0200
Subject: SOS - unicode problems...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6723.1101221453.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6723.1101221453.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <co073p$ool$2@news2.netvision.net.il>

Hello,
kepes.krisztian wrote:
> Hi !
> 
> I use iso-8859-2 chrset (win1250), because I'm hungarian.
> 
<skipped>
Try this:
s='Z\xf6rr'
q=s.decode('iso-8859-2')
Yo'll get unicode string

Yury.


From jarausch at skynet.be  Mon Nov 22 12:30:31 2004
From: jarausch at skynet.be (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:30:31 +0100
Subject: IDLE 1.1c2 on Linux - no selection ?
Message-ID: <41a22238$0$30700$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

Hi,

with IDLE 1.1c2 under X11 on my Linux box I can't make a selection
with the pressed left mouse button any longer. The mouse seems nearly 
dead. Just the right button pops up a 'Go to file/line'.
In previous versions I could make a selection with the left button and 
copy it with the middle mouse button.
I have compiled 2.4c1 with tcl/tk 2.4.7

Thanks for any hints,

Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany


From ncoghlan at iinet.net.au  Mon Nov 22 08:43:31 2004
From: ncoghlan at iinet.net.au (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:43:31 +1000
Subject: AW: [Python-Dev] Constructor bug
In-Reply-To: <FB26DAD89E43D411B25F0050DA517F382E4659@MOMATEC01>
References: <FB26DAD89E43D411B25F0050DA517F382E4659@MOMATEC01>
Message-ID: <41A1ED03.8000401@iinet.net.au>

(cc'ing python-list so this explanation gets snagged by the python.org archives 
and the Google-bot. It took me too long to write to leave it languishing in email ;)

(leading underscores in the examples are to persuade mailreaders to leave the 
interactive prompts alone)

Oliver Walczak wrote:
> In my opinion, initialization outside of __init__ without self. and inside
> __init__ with self. should work absolutely identical.

They don't, though, because they actually say very different things. There are 
two aspects of Python interacting here that explain the various behaviours you 
are seeing:
	1. Class attributes vs instance attributes
	2. Immutable vs mutable objects.

Getting a good grasp on these two aspects can really help with mastering 
Python's classes.

Consider your test class:

_>>>class test:
_...  d1 = {'k':'v'}           #1
_...  i1 = 1                   #2
_...  def __init__(self):
_...      self.d2 = {'k':'v'}  #3
_...      self.i2 = 1          #4

Here we have:
   #1. Mutable class attribute (d1)
   #2. Immutable class attribute (i1)
   #3. Mutable instance attribute (d2)
   #4. Immutable instance attribute (i2)

The class attributes can be accessed without creating an instance first:

_>>> test.d1
_{'k': 'v'}
_>>> test.i1
_1

But the instance attributes trigger exceptions:

_>>> test.d2
_Traceback (most recent call last):
_  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
_AttributeError: class test has no attribute 'd2'
_>>> test.i2
_Traceback (most recent call last):
_  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
_AttributeError: class test has no attribute 'i2'

If we create an instance, though, we can access all 4 attributes. When the 
lookup of the class attributes in the instance dictionary fails, Python tries 
the class dictionary and succeeds:

_>>> c1 = test()
_>>> c1.d1
_{'k': 'v'}
_>>> c1.i1
_1
_>>> c1.d2
_{'k': 'v'}
_>>> c1.i2
_1

The question of mutable vs immutable comes into play when we start changing 
things. First, lets create c2:

_>>> c2 = test()
_>>> c2.d1
_{'k': 'v'}
_>>> c2.i1
_1
_>>> c2.d2
_{'k': 'v'}
_>>> c2.i2
_1

Looks identical to c1, right? Not quite:

_>>> c1.d1 is c2.d1 # Mutable class attribute
_True
_>>> c1.i1 is c2.i1 # Immutable class attribute
_True
_>>> c1.d2 is c2.d2 # Mutable instance attribute
_False
_>>> c1.i2 is c2.i2 # Immutable instance attribute
_True

Take note of the use of 'is' instead of '=='. '==' check if two objects have the 
same *value* (e.g. "[] == []" is True). 'is' checks if they are the same 
*object* (e.g. "[] is []" is False since they are two different empty lists, but 
"a = []; a is a" is True, since a is obviously itself). We'll explore the 
meaning of each of the above results as we go along.

For the class attributes, both d1 and i1 are the *same* object. That is, "c1.d1" 
and "c2.d1" (and "test.d1" for that matter) are just different names for the 
same dictionary living in the test class. Any changes made through any of the 
references are going to be visible using the other references:

_>>> del test.d1['k']
_>>> test.d1
_{}
_>>> c1.d1
_{}
_>>> c2.d1
_>>> c1.d1.update({'k': 'v2'})
_>>> test.d1
_{'k': 'v2'}
_>>> c1.d1
_{'k': 'v2'}
_>>> c2.d1
_{'k': 'v2'}

But how do we change i1? We *can't*. Integers are immutable - that means we 
cannot change them. The only thing we can do is make the reference to them point 
to something different. When we alter an immutable class attribute, it matters 
how we do it.

First, let's alter it directly in the class dictionary:
_>>> test.i1 = 3
_>>> test.i1
_3
_>>> c1.i1
_3
_>>> c2.i1
_3

That seemed to work the same as with d1. But let's try using an instance:

_>>> c1.i1 = 5
_>>> test.i1
_3
_>>> c1.i1
_5
_>>> c2.i1
_3
_>>> c1.i1 is c2.i1
_False
_>>> c1.i1 is test.i1
_False
_>>> c2.i1 is test.i1
_True

So what's going on here? When you try to set a class atribute using an instance, 
the class attribute is not changed. Instead, the particular instance gets its 
own instance variable that hides the version in the class. We can get the class 
version back by deleting the added instance variable:

_>>> del c1.i1
_>>> c1.i1
_3
_>>> c1.i1 is test.i1
_True

This actually happens for mutable class attributes too, if we reassign them 
instead of mutating them:

_>>> c2.d1 = {}
_>>> c2.d1
_{}
_>>> test.d1
_{'k': 'v2'}
_>>> c2.d1 is test.d1
_False
_>>> del c2.d1
_>>> c2.d1
_{'k': 'v2'}
_>>> c2.d1 is test.d1
_True

Hopefully the expected behaviour of the mutable instance attributes is now 
clear. These are separate references to separate objects. Changes to either side 
have no effect on the other:

_>>> c1.d2 is c2.d2
_False
_>>> c1.d2
_{'k': 'v'}
_>>> c2.d2
_{'k': 'v'}
_>>> del c1.d2['k']
_>>> c1.d2
_{}
_>>> c2.d2
_{'k': 'v'}
_>>> c2.d2 = 0
_>>> c1.d2
_{}
_>>> c2.d2
_0

So why do the immutable instance variables appear to be the same object?:

_>>> c1.i2 is c2.i2
_True
_>>> c1.i2
_1
_>>> c2.i2
_1

This is possible because they are *immutable*. Implementations of immutable 
objects often go by the rule "Don't create a new object if an old one will do". 
In this case, the Python.org interpreter's integer implementation follows that 
rule for small integers - it keeps them around, and only has one copy of each 
value. Since c1.i2 and c2.i2 both refer to the value 1, this implementation 
means they are actually referring to the same object.

We can, however, still alter the value each instance refers to without affecting 
the other instance:

_>>> c1.i2 = 3
_>>> c1.i2
_3
_>>> c2.i2
_1
_>>> c1.i2 is c2.i2
_False


You made it this far? That's a pretty good effort in itself. You can find the 
official word on Python classes in Section 9 of the Python Tutorial 
(http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.4/tut/node11.html).

Rest assured that the current behaviour really is the way the developers intend 
Python to work. It can be a little confusing initially, but is rather useful 
once you get the hang of it.

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan               |     Brisbane, Australia
Email: ncoghlan at email.com  | Mobile: +61 409 573 268


From syd.diamond at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 11:22:05 2004
From: syd.diamond at gmail.com (syd)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 08:22:05 -0800
Subject: two new wrinkles to the general class!
References: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>
	<kj9eo0hkjem9pbj3pvdbpea6gpl06ighsj@4ax.com>
	<1099537038.677930.245340@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<10oj86oh8nfi8ad@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1099585325.926097.5450@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

>     new_copy = self.__class__()

Awesome!  I didn't know I could call it like that... thanks, Jeff.

>     method = Collection.get_foo('bar')
>     method()

I suppose I knew that, but I wasn't thinking.  I can do something like
(for nation as a component of library):

(criteria='foo' or 'bar' or whatever... grabbed from __getattr__)
isMethodString='is'+criteria
isMethod=getattr(library,isMethodString)

then the criteria for inclusion becomes when isMethod()==True

----------------------------------------------

One final question that I can't seem to get, but I know I should be
able to do:

Given a Library class with possible component class types Nation_A,
Nation_B, and so forth where type(Nation_A)<>type(Nation_B).  If I had
the string 'Nation_B', how could I get an empty class Nation_B?

ie,
dir()=['Library','Nation_A','Nation_B',...]
desiredEmptyClassString=dir[2]
desiredEmptyClass=getEmptyClassFromString(desiredEmptyClassString)
Does a "getEmptyClassFromString" method exist?



From charlotte at donotspam.invalid  Mon Nov  8 06:36:01 2004
From: charlotte at donotspam.invalid (Charlotte)
Date: 08 Nov 2004 11:36:01 GMT
Subject: cherrypy/cheetah vs twisted/nevow
References: <slrncoc0tr.1tc7.charlotte@xs2.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.5766.1099319968.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncoumh1.p6v.charlotte@xs2.xs4all.nl>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
>  Hi! That was the same reason that got me hooked on CherryPy: it's
>  simplicity, and the fact that it seemed so 'obvious' to use. 

Yes, I continue to love it. I wonder why it is not much more used.

>  As for
>  the redesign, I'm already using the CP2 alpha project for a few
>  projects of mine. None of them is 'life critical', and I'm not using
>  all features, but it seems very stable to me right now. The main
>  difference is that CP2 is now 'pure python', with no intermediate
>  compilation step, which makes it even more natural to use than before.

Yes, I like that very much. It makes it also much easier to unittest.
Would you be willing to share your experiences with CP2? 

>  I'm yet to study nevow, but I'm getting more and more interested. I
>  have my own approach to separation; I use to think about a third
>  entity, "structure", as being independent from code & ui. The
>  structure is the common part; it's the "glue" between ui and code; and
>  it's the first part to be designed. I'm still experimenting with this
>  concept. For what I have read so far, nevow seems to follow a similar
>  approach, although I haven't seen any reference to "structure" as a
>  third element in the design anywhere.

This is the way I like to organize my code to, and I have now found
out that HTMLTemplate also works like this. Which is great, because it
works with CherryPy.

>  For what I know, twisted is a huge beast, and forces you to a totally
>  different programming paradigm. There is a wsgi gateway for twisted in
>  the works, and that may make things simpler for pure web development,
>  as it will hide some of the inherent complexity of twisted async
>  design. For my own needs, I still prefer to stay with CherryPy.

I decided to stay with CherryPy for now. HTMLTemplate does a lot of
what I liked in Nevow. I liked formless, but that is not that
important, and I can implement xmlhttprequest things myself. What I
really like about CherryPy is that I understand what is going on. In
Webware, I was just following examples, and it worked, but I found it
rather complicated, with al the Kits I never used. And I know Webware
is actually supposed to be simple... 

Thanks for your input, and I would like to know how you like
CherryPy2, as your work progresses.

Charlotte.


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Sat Nov 20 18:11:26 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 21:11:26 -0200
Subject: Enumerating Classes in Modules
In-Reply-To: <419f8425$0$25778$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
References: <jKQmd.16312$Vk6.11976@twister.nyc.rr.com>
	<10pnu0hrq7r9tf9@corp.supernews.com>
	<j4Tmd.17277$Vk6.1450@twister.nyc.rr.com>
	<BNcnd.18042$Vk6.6901@twister.nyc.rr.com>
	<419f8425$0$25778$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <864d370904112015117ff129f2@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 03:51:33 +1000, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at email.com> wrote:
> Rob Snyder wrote:
> 
> 
> > Just in case anyone "follows in my footsteps" and has the same problem I did
> > - Jeff's answer is pretty much dead on. The only stumbling block I had was
> > that the dir() returns a list of strings representating the name of the
> > attributes, and includes things that are not class definitions (e.g.
> > '--builtins--'). So two modifications are necessary:
> >
> > 1 - use the getattr() function with each item returned by dir() to actually
> > load the class object
> > 2 - use type() to determine if it really it really is a classobj
> 
> I would suggest "hasattr" with the method you're interested in as a better way
> to perform step 2. That should cover both old and new style classes quite happily.

Using hasattr() is better than checking the type. But a better, and
more generic solution, is to use the adapt framework. I've written a
short tutorial on adaptation. It's at my blog:

http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com/2004/11/what-is-adaptation.html

In this case, the idea is: get every type you can find, and try to
adapt it to the interface you want. If the adaptation is succesfull,
the result is the object you want.

Also, if you prefer to keep doing things the "old way", a possibility
is to use isclass and issubclass.

issubclass is a builtin. You can just call it, and it will tell you if
an object is a descendant of the given class. But it will raise an
exception if the argument is *not* a class. It belongs to the BAFP -
"better to ask for forgiveness than permission" coding style.

If you prefer to code in the LBYL - "look before you leap" - style,
then you can use isclass, from the inspect module.

from inspect import isclass
if isclass(x) and issubclass(x, myclass):
    ...


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From Andrew at ferndale.net.nz  Tue Nov 16 19:49:11 2004
From: Andrew at ferndale.net.nz (Andrew A. Cox)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:49:11 +1300
Subject: inserting bracketings into a string
Message-ID: <9DA3F6A6D39A8045848BC9F128D093CDCCC0@silver.ferndale.net.nz.local>

Steve, here is my way of doing it (see code below) it is sort of the
same way your were doing it but a little cleaner (I hope)

#Modify to put starts before ends or vice versa
START_TYPE = 2
END_TYPE = 1

def insert_bracketings(initalText, spans):
	ans = ""
	parts = []
	for span in spans:
		#For every span there is a start part and an end apart
		parts.append( (span[1], START_TYPE, span[0]) )
		parts.append( (span[2], END_TYPE, span[0]) )
	parts.sort() #List will be sorted by location, type then letter)
	lastlocation = 0
	for part in parts:
		addString = ""
		if part[1] == START_TYPE:
			addString = "[%s " % part[2]
		elif part[1] == END_TYPE:
			addString = "]"
		else:
			pass #Maybe raise error??
		#Could use a list here (maybe faster)
		ans += initalText[lastlocation:part[0]] + addString
lastlocation = part[0]
	return ans

print insert_bracketings(text, [('A', 0, 6), ('B', 6, 9), ('C', 25, 31)]
)
print '[A abcde [B fgh]] ijklmnop qrstu [C vw xyz]'

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Bethard [mailto:steven.bethard at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 17 November 2004 12:38 p.m.
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: inserting bracketings into a string

I'm trying to insert some bracketings in a string based on a set of
labels and associated start and end indices.  For example, I'd like to
do something like:

>>> text = 'abcde fgh ijklmnop qrstu vw xyz'
>>> spans = [('A', 0, 9), ('B', 6, 9), ('C', 25, 31)]
>>> insert_bracketings(text, spans)
'[A abcde [B fgh]] ijklmnop qrstu [C vw xyz]'

My current implementation looks like:

>>> def insert_bracketings(text, spans):
... 	starts = [start for _, start, _ in spans]
... 	ends = [end for _, _, end in spans]
... 	indices = sorted(set(starts + ends))
... 	splits = [(text[start:end], start, end)
... 	          for start, end in zip([None] + indices, indices +
[None])]
... 	start_map, end_map = {}, {}
... 	for label, start, end in spans:
... 		start_map.setdefault(start, []).append('[%s ' % label)
... 		end_map.setdefault(end, []).append(']')
... 	result = []	
... 	for string, start, end in splits:
... 		if start in start_map:
... 			result.extend(start_map[start])
... 		result.append(string)
... 		if end in end_map:
... 			result.extend(end_map[end])
... 	return ''.join(result)
... 

but it seems like there ought to be an easier way.  Can anyone help me?

Thanks in advance,

Steve
-- 
When you're being strangled, everything you do is anaerobic exercise!
        --- Adam Olshefsky
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Sat Nov 20 16:41:44 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 21:41:44 GMT
Subject: persistent CGI pattern at google.com (was why python?)
References: <cndpgm$s82$1@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca>
	<1gndypu.1e28rl1cgo8nsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cnfen4$hq8$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<419ddb81$0$27395$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-06.noos.net>
Message-ID: <Xns95A7E6DF0601DJanC@213.118.46.53>

francois lepoutre schreef:

>> Google itself is a python success story - for example this here:
>>  https://adwords.google.com/support/bin/topic.py?topic=102
> 
> Sure, it looks like google.com is using some kind of
> cgi process to run python code. Kind of good news
> for those selling python-based stuff.
> 
> I expect google use some sort of persistency layer
> (mod_python, fastcgi ...) to run their python cgi code
> effectively.
> 
> Anyone knows the way their python code is delivered
> at adwords ?

I see Python used for their knowledge base, not for adwords?

<http://gmail.google.com/support/bin/topic.py?topic=1>
<http://adwords.google.com/support/bin/topic.py?topic=1>
<http://groups.google.com/support/bin/topic.py?topic=1>

IIRC their web spiders were, and maybe still are, (partially?) written in 
Python?

I'm not sure where they use Python otherwise...


-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Tue Nov  9 03:49:15 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 09 Nov 2004 09:49:15 +0100
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmgcp1$hpk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncong4u.1tk.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmggel$t2o$01$1@news.t-online.com> <2va4n2F2h8f1tU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<cmong2$cpl$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <tyfk6sv2yr8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> writes:

> > There's a C++ ABI standard on Linux now (maybe it covers other Unixish
> > platforms too). GCC-3.x supports it and also the Intel compiler supports
> > it. That's how you can now use (link) libraries compiled with some gcc-3.x
> > compiler to a program compiled with Intel's compilers or vice versa.
> > 
> > Though, some of the early gcc-3.0 compilers may not be 100% C++ ABI
> > compliant. There were some bugs there.
> 
> Interesting to hear that they work on these shortcomings of c++. From what
> google told me, it looks as if this stuff is defined for Itanium processors
> only - do you know if its also used for x86 systems?

Yes, I use it in GCC on x86, G4 and G5. It should work wherever GCC
works.


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Mon Nov 29 17:58:19 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 14:58:19 -0800
Subject: slicing, mapping types, ellipsis etc.
In-Reply-To: <m3y8gkcorz.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
References: <m34qj8e5yd.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
	<opsh9fobad1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
	<m3y8gkcorz.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
Message-ID: <41abbc25$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Jerry Sievers wrote:
> I'd like to know;
> 1. what the Ellipsis object or ... syntax is used for
Use the Numeric (or numarray) package to really see these in use.
Otherwise, you mostly get to implement it yourself.

 > 2. what a slice [..., j:k:l] does
Again, see numeric.  Essentially, select parts of a matrix (or higher
dimensional array) based on a stride in the last dimension.

> 3. how slices are applied to object of mapping types
One way to investigate this interactively:

class CheckOut(object):
     def __init__(self, name=None):
	self.name = name or str(self)
     def __getitem__(self, *args, **kwargs):
         print '%s._gi_(*%r, **%r):' % (self.name, args, kwargs),
         return input()

 >>> c = CheckOut('a')
 >>> b = c[1, ...]
c.gi(*(1, Ellipsis), **{}): self.name * 7
 >>> b
'aaaaaaa'

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From alban.minassian at wanadoo.fr  Fri Nov  5 01:11:23 2004
From: alban.minassian at wanadoo.fr (alban.minassian at wanadoo.fr)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 22:11:23 -0800
Subject: SystemError: com_backpatch: offset too large
References: <781f5e76.0411032335.57bf5ae4@posting.google.com>
	<lupid.5272$931.5140@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <781f5e76.0411042211.3feb1365@posting.google.com>

> It might help if we had some idea what the code looked like around line 
> 5139, and if we knew the size of the data concerned, for example.

Line 5138 : var += "AAA"+"XXXXXX"+"BBB"  # <----- OK 
Line 5139 : var += "AAA"+"XXXXXX"+"BBB" # <---- !!! --->
com_backpatch: offset too large

If i replace, line 5139, by 'print 'hello python' : --->
com_backpatch: offset too large

len(var)--> 583


Alban


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  7 10:44:28 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 16:44:28 +0100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au> <alGid.47522$HA.14125@attbi_s01>
	<cml9h2$q70$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <1gmw2us.eerwmfbnb899N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Pythogoras <noreal at email.org> wrote:

> But maybe you want to have something more fun?
> How about that?
>     read autoexec.bat,
>     sort the lines
>     create sorted_autoexec.bak

file('sorted_autoexec.bak','w').writelines(sorted(file('autoexec.bat')))

73 chars in one line.  Yeah, I cheated -- I _would_ normally put a space
after the comma, making the real total into seventyFOUR...

> 
> ///
> File source = new File("c:/autoexec.bat");
> File destination = new File("c:/sorted_autoexec.bak");
> 
> String[] lines = readLines(source);
> lines = sort(lines);
> write(destination,lines);

How delightfully quaint and redundant.  I do recall a time where Python
would take such a roundabout approach too -- of course, the Python code,
even at that time, was elegantly object-oriented, with the reading,
sorting and writing all neatly expressed as methods of file and list
objects, rather than these weird 'readLines' and 'sort' and 'write'
apparently-global functions taking the objects as arguments.  Still, all
of those mysterious 'globals' does enhance the retrocomputing taste of
your code -- one can almost see you writing it with a quill dipped in
ink, at a carved oak desk, on your steam-powered computer.  Charming!

Should you ever decide to move into the 21st century, though, don't
worry: Python will be there to help you do so.


Alex


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Nov  3 22:27:15 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:27:15 -0800
Subject: two new wrinkles to the general class!
In-Reply-To: <1099537038.677930.245340@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>
	<kj9eo0hkjem9pbj3pvdbpea6gpl06ighsj@4ax.com>
	<1099537038.677930.245340@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <10oj86oh8nfi8ad@corp.supernews.com>

syd wrote:

>>>1) Because I've got many "container" type classes, the best route
>>>      
>>>
>would obviously seem be to subclass each to a general "container".  Ie,
>
>class Library_A(Container): ...
>class Library_B(Container): ...
>
>The problem: in the current setup, a library_a.get_continent('Europe')
>would pass back an instance of Container and *not* Library_A.  The
>obvious implication is that any attributes/method specific to Library_A
>are gone. 
>

As I understand it, your object's (most derived) type will be stored as 
self.__class__.  So, in order to have Library_A create more Library_A 
instances, and Library_B create more Library_B instances, you can 
instead do something like:

    new_copy = self.__class__()


>2) I've got a bunch of "get_foo" type things where "foo" is not an
>  
>
>attribute of the component class but rather a method.  [...]
>
>Above, we use getattr() to grab the attribute on-the-fly.  Can we grab
>a method on-the-fly, too?  
>

Sure -- methods are just attributes that happen to be callable.  You get 
a method reference in the same way that you get any attribute, and you 
call it the same way that you call any function reference:

    method = Collection.get_foo('bar')
    method()

will call whatever method get_foo('bar') returns.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Nov  4 21:37:42 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 21:37:42 -0500
Subject: Has anyone released a mock time module?
Message-ID: <Q9udnVn93rzJeBfcRVn-oA@powergate.ca>

Along the lines of my post just now about a mock filesystem,
I'm also interested in any work in the area of mock
timing.

Testing time-based* systems can be a real bitch.  The
most annoying part is that the naive approach generally
involves tests waiting for the code under test to complete,
thus making the tests waste time just sitting there.  When
your tests take too long to run, you think twice about
running them often which is inevitably a Bad Thing.

As with the mockfs, I have a simple mocktime working,
allowing me to quickly and easily test time-based behaviour
in threaded code.  I suspect others have been here before,
and I'd like to stand on their shoulders, or at least
get a little piggyback ride for a bit.

Thanks again for any pointers to similar efforts.

-Peter

* By "time-based" I mean code that does things like time.sleep()
or time.time(), in essence.


From eddie at kickingdragon.com  Sun Nov 14 03:24:08 2004
From: eddie at kickingdragon.com (Eddie Parker)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 01:24:08 -0700
Subject: .pyc files...
In-Reply-To: <41971202.3010006@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <E1CTFgg-0005Dg-00@galvatron.kickingdragon.com>

I suppose that does work... Although I'm *extra* anal, and would love it to
be 'out-of-my-face' to begin with... :)

Something like (in my_python_file.py):

__PYC_DIRECTORY__ = './intermediate/'

Would be awesome. Although I'm uncertain of a few things:

a) Would such syntax be impossible, because of bootstrapping concerns?
(i.e., the .pyc file is already generated as it's being read? Or is it put
into memory, until it's finally byte compiled, so this might actually be
possible?)
b) Would this go against some sort of coding convention/design decision?
i.e., "Bylaw 3, subsection 42 of the Python 'Code' states: No config options
should be specified to the running interpreter, from within any .py file"?

Anyways, I think I'm more interested for education's sake - although it
*would* help me sleep at night, to send my .pyc files off into the nether..
(Heck - might be a good way to force no-gen of .pyc files, too:
__PYC_DIRECTORY__ = /dev/null)

Jus' a thought. :)

-e-

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+eddie=kickingdragon.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+eddie=kickingdragon.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
Stephen Waterbury
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 1:06 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: .pyc files...

Eddie Parker wrote:
> OK, stupid question, but it?s been bothering me for ages.. J
> 
> I love Python to bits, but .pyc files always litter my source tree, and 
> they?ve always bothered me. ...

One solution (on unices, at least):

alias cleanpy="find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm {} ';'"

Run after each test, or when feeling anal.  ;)

Steve
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 11/1/2004
 

---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 11/1/2004
 



From loic.mahe at free.fr  Mon Nov 29 08:35:11 2004
From: loic.mahe at free.fr (Lo?c Mah?)
Date: 29 Nov 2004 05:35:11 -0800
Subject: wxPython: how to update a panel content/layout according to a
	variable content
References: <27a5ac50.0411190819.3ad36f15@posting.google.com>
	<cnno7u$3c9$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
Message-ID: <27a5ac50.0411290535.6c03c88c@posting.google.com>

Thanks for the answer.

I will try the method you talked about.

For the moment, I am creating a new sizer and new panel
and call the SetSizer(...) and SetAutoLayout(...)
but this is not satisfying me.

Lo?c


"F. GEIGER" <f.geiger at vol.at> wrote in message news:<cnno7u$3c9$1 at newsreader1.utanet.at>...
> wxWindow has Update and Refresh methods. You can override the one of your
> wxPanel, where you can call all its children to update/refresh themselves.
> wxPanel's update could be triggered by a timer event, mouse event  or
> whatever.
> 
> I do such things preferably in timers owned by the widgets themselves.
> 
> HTH
> Franz GEIGER
>


From mustafademirhan at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 18:35:18 2004
From: mustafademirhan at gmail.com (Mustafa Demirhan)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 15:35:18 -0800
Subject: Correct way to handle independent interpreters when embedding
	in a single-threaded C++ app
References: <mailman.6537.1100774276.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <560b81a4.0411181535.d9d845d@posting.google.com>

If you are always running the Python scripts within the main thread of
the application, then why are you creating a new thread state and run
the script in that state? Why not just this:

  Py_Initialize();
  PyRun_SimpleString(...);
  Py_Finalize();

(Instead of PyRun_SimpleString, do whatever you want to do there)

Since you are not running any python scripts or calling any python
related stuff from other threads, this is the best approach in my
opinion. This will also ensure that execution of one script wont
effect the execution of another because  you call Py_Finalize after
the script and thus shut down the interpreter.

Mustafa Demirhan

Craig Ringer <craig at postnewspapers.com.au> wrote in message news:<mailman.6537.1100774276.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi folks
> 
> I'm a bit of a newbie here, though I've tried to appropriately research
> this issue before posting. I've found a lot of questions, a few answers
> that don't really answer quite what I'm looking for, but nothing that
> really solves or explains all this. I'll admit to being stumped, hence
> my question here.
> 
> I'm also trying to make this post as clear and detailed as possible.
> Unfortunately, that means it's come out like a book. I hope a few kind
> souls will be game to read it, on the theory that I'm a user who's
> putting in the time to actually provide enough information for once.
> 
> I have a Python interpreter embedded in a C++/Qt application (Scribus -
> http://www.scribus.net). Scribus, while using multi-threading enabled
> libraries, runs in a single 'main' thread. The Python interpreter is
> implemented as a plug-in that's used to run user scripts. Overall it's
> working very well.
> 
> I've run into two problems that are proving very difficult to solve,
> however, and I thought I'd ask here for some words of wisdom. I'm only
> tackling the first one right now. First I'll provide some background on
> how I'm doing things, and what I'm trying to achieve. If anything below
> comes out as a request for Python functionality it's not intended to be
> - it's just a description of what /I'm/ trying to do.
> 
> The Scribus Python plugin is pretty standard - it both embeds the Python
> interpreter and provides an extension module to expose
> application-specific functionality. It is used to permit users to
> execute Python scripts to automate tasks within the application. I also
> hope to make it possible to extend the application using Python, but
> that's not the issue right now. I need to isolate individual script
> executions as much as possible, so that to the greatest extent we can
> manage each script runs in a new interpreter. In other words, I need to
> minimise the chances of scripts treading on each others toes or leaking
> too much with each execution.
> 
> Specifically, as much as possible I need to:
> 
>   - Ensure that memory allocated by Python during a script run is all
>     freed, including any objects created and modules loaded. An
>     exception can be made for C extension modules, so long as they
>     don't leak every time a script is run.
>   - Ensure that no global state (eg loaded modules, globals namespace,
>     etc) persists across script executions.
> 
> I have no need to be able to run Python scripts in parallel with the
> application, nor with each other. If a script goes into an endless loop,
> that's a bug with the script, and not the application's problem. I'd
> like to reduce the chances of scripts conflicting or messing up the app
> state, but don't intend to even try to make it possible to safely run
> untrusted scripts or to completely isolate scripts. If the odd C
> extension module doesn't like it, I can deal with that too.
> 
> Also, some of the extension module functions make Qt gui calls (for
> example, create and display a file chooser dialog) or access internal
> application state in QObject derived classes. According to the Qt
> documentation, this should only be done from the main thread. This is
> another reason why I'm making no attempt to make it possible to run
> normal Python scripts without blocking the application, or run scripts
> in parallel. It also means that all my Python sub-interpreters need to
> share the main (and in fact only) application thread.
> 
> 
> I've hit two issues with this. The first is that executing a script
> crashes the application with SIGABRT if a Python debug build is being
> used. Python crashes the app with the error "Invalid thread state for
> this thread". I'm working with Python 2.3.4 . The crash is triggered by
> a check in pystate.c line 276  - in the PyThreadState_Swap() function:
> 
> The code in question is:
> 
>     /* It should not be possible for more than one thread state
>        to be used for a thread.  Check this the best we can in debug
>        builds.
>     */
> #if defined(Py_DEBUG) && defined(WITH_THREAD)
>     if (new) {
>         PyThreadState *check = PyGILState_GetThisThreadState();
>         if (check && check != new)
>             /* Py_FatalError("Invalid thread state for this thread"); */
>             printf("We would've died here\n");
>     }
> #endif
> 
> A trimmed down and simplified version (eg no error checking, etc) of the
> code I'm using in the plugin that hits this check is:
> 
>     PyThreadState *stateo = PyEval_SaveThread();
>     PyThreadState *state = Py_NewInterpreter();
>     initscribus(Carrier); // init the extension module
>     PySys_SetArgv(1, scriptfilename);
>     PyObject* m = PyImport_AddModule("__main__");
>     PyObject* globals = PyModule_GetDict(m);
>     char* script_string = ... // build script that calls execfile()
>     PyObject* result = PyRun_String(script_string, Py_file_input,\
>         globals, globals);
>     ... // handle possible failure and capture exception
>     Py_EndInterpreter(state);
>     PyEval_RestoreThread(stateo);
> 
> (The full version can be found in
> scribus/plugins/scriptplugin/scriptplugin.cpp line 225-279 of Scribus
> CVS, http://www.scribus.net/)
> 
> The script text isn't really important. It just execfiles()s the user's
> script within a try/catch block to ignore SystemExit and to catch and
> capture any other fatal exceptions.
> 
> The crash occurs at Py_NewInterpreter, when it calls PyThreadState_Swap.
> It's pretty clear _what_ is happening - Python is aborting on a sanity
> check because I'm trying to use multiple thread states in one thread -
> what I'm looking for help with is _why_. When run with a non-debug
> build, scripts run just fine. It also runs fine when I use a debug build
> of Python without thread support (as is obvious from the code snippet
> above). I'm sure there are cases where things can / do go wrong, but for
> general use it appears to be just peachy.
> 
> So ... my question is, what are the issues behind this check? Does it
> indicate that there will be a problem with this condition in all cases?
> My understanding is that it's to do with the way Python doesn't use the
> full capabilities of platform threading libraries, and has some shared
> globals that could cause issues. Correct? If so, is there a way around
> this?
> 
> All I'm looking to do is to create a clean sub-interpreter state, run a
> script in it (in the main thread, with nothing else running) then
> dispose of the interpreter at script exit. It's desirable to keep the
> main interpreter usable as well, but there will never be more than one
> sub-interpreter, and there will never be Python code running in the main
> and sub interpreters at the same time. Does the existence of this check
> mean that what I'm trying to do is incorrect or unsafe? If not, might it
> be possible to provide apps with a way to disable this check (think an
> "I know what I'm doing" flag)? Is there another, saner way to do what I
> want?
> 
> This post describes a similar issue to mine, though their goals are
> different, and I don't think the solution will work for me:
> http://groups.google.com.au/groups?hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&selm=brlicq%243dh%241%40arachne.labyrinth.net.au&rnum=7
> 
> This message describes the issue I'm seeing:
> http://groups.google.com.au/groups?q=Py_NewInterpreter&hl=en&lr=&group=comp.lang.python.*&client=firefox-a&selm=knbstvgsn3o3qmmtu975g8eb94rhpmae2o%404ax.com&rnum=5
> 
> Another related message:
> http://groups.google.com.au/groups?q=Py_NewInterpreter&hl=en&lr=&group=comp.lang.python.*&client=firefox-a&selm=mailman.3563.1095687831.5135.python-list%40python.org&rnum=1
> 
> Someone says it's just broken:
> http://groups.google.com.au/groups?q=Py_NewInterpreter&start=10&hl=en&lr=&group=comp.lang.python.*&client=firefox-a&selm=m34r8r5jwr.fsf%40mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de&rnum=17
> 
> 
> I've tried one other approach that doesn't involve
> Py_NewInterpreter/Py_EndInterpreter, but didn't have much success. What
> I tried to do was run each script with a new global dict, so that they
> at least had separate global namespaces (though they'd still be able to
> influence the next script's interpreter state / module state). If I
> recall correctly I ended up with code like this:
> 
>     execfile(filename, {'__builtins__'=__builtins__,
>                         '__name__':'__main__',
>                         '__file__':filename})
> 
> being called from PyRun_String.
> 
> This appeared to work fine, but turned out to leak memory like a sieve.
> Objects in the script's global namespace weren't being disposed of when
> the script terminated. Consequently, if I had a script with one line:
> 
>     x = x = ' '*200000000
> 
> then each time I ran the script the app would gobble a large chunk more
> memory and not release it. If I wrote a script that very carefully
> deleted everything it put in the top-level namespace before it exited,
> such as all variables, imports, classes, and functions, I still leaked a
> little memory and a few references, but nothing much. Unfortunately,
> doing that is also rather painful at best and seems _really_ clumsy.
> 
> It looked to me after some testing with a debug build like the global
> dictionaries that were being created for each execfile() call were not
> being disposed of after the call terminated, even though no code I was
> aware of continued to hold references to them. Circular references? Do I
> have to manually invoke the cyclic reference cleanup code in Python when
> embedding?
> 
> I'm sorry for the lack of detail provided in the discussion of this
> approach. It was a while ago. If folks here think it's viable I can go
> back and get some more hard data.
> 
> With the 'new globals dict' approach, it was also possible for people to
> mangle modules and for the next script to see the changes. If there's a
> way to re-init modules between runs (at least the built-in ones like
> sys, __builtins__, etc, plus the app's extension module and any modules
> written in Python), that'd be fantastic.
> 
> 
> If there's some way to do achieve what I want to do - get scripts to
> execute in private or mostly-private environments in the main thread of
> an application - I'd be overjoyed to hear it. I'm very sorry for the
> mammoth message, and hope I've made some sense and provided enough
> information without boring you all to tears. It's clear that there's
> been quite a bit of interest in this topic from my digging through the
> list archives, but I just wasn't able to find a clear, definitive
> answer.
> 
> Phew. To anybody who got this far, thankyou very much for your time and
> patience.


From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Fri Nov 12 16:08:30 2004
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:08:30 -0800
Subject: Python 2.4: Why only assignments to None are forbiden?
In-Reply-To: <4195190f@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
References: <4195190f@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <200411121308.30667.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>


Forbidding assignment to arbitrary things seems like a bad idea.

I remember some learning manual recommended this (or the equivalent):

def do_stuff_to_bob(bob=None):
  if not bob:
    bob = ["carol","ted","alice"]
  #do stuff to bob
  return bob

otherwise bob would already be defined from the last call (because it is a 
mutable type? I can't remember.). How else to handle this in 2.4?

On Friday 12 November 2004 01:11 pm, Josef Meile wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Textually from the highlights of python 2.4:
>
> "Assigning to None - the compiler now treats assigning to None as a
> SyntaxError."
>
> I think in general assignments to built-in types, functions, and
> variables should be also forbiden.


James


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Nov  2 10:32:34 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 16:32:34 +0100
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<4187aafe$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <cm89ah$qc7$03$1@news.t-online.com>

> Strong typing respects data as invariant.  There is no way to "sneak
> around" a data type and "tweak" its representation.  The reason C is
> weakly typed is that you can easily get to the bits in a float (for
> example), rather than always having to deal with a float with float
> operations.

Sounds good.

> 
> Strong types provide strong protection for data types as their
> abstraction; weak types allow you to operate on data "behind the
> wall of abstraction".  A Smalltalk programmer would say that
> Python is more weakly typed than Smalltalk for user-defined types.

Never used smalltalk, so help me with understanding this:
Do you mean by that that python allows alteration of members of an object,
thus circumvening possible methods that should be used for that? Or, to put
it in an other way: do you consider the lack of a privacy policy of members
as "weak"?

If this is the case: I personally wouldn't call that "weaker" - python just
allows for more default-messages to be accepted by an object - if you want
better privacy for your members, use slots and properties. But this is of
coures not totally safe - as it is not in java c++.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU  Sun Nov 21 20:47:04 2004
From: Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU (Michael J. Fromberger)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:47:04 -0500
Subject: Small Database Needed
References: <mailman.6669.1101048884.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<m7-dnTCpSK1MqDzcRVn-sA@rogers.com>
	<FsydnTHKM5qLpzzcRVn-uA@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Michael.J.Fromberger-95B81B.20470421112004@localhost>

In article <FsydnTHKM5qLpzzcRVn-uA at rogers.com>,
 "Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote:

> Considering some recent discussions in this newsgroup about doing a search 
> before asking questions, I realized I may just have been guilty of that 
> myself.  So I did a search, even though it was after posting that previous 
> message.  I found a few recent threads that are relevant also for the OP's 
> question:
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&threadm=mailman.711.1086704
> 144.6949.python-list%40python.org&rnum=8&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dmetakit%26hl%3Den%
> 26lr%3D%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*%26c2coff%3D1%26scoring%3Dd%26selm%3Dmailm
> an.711.1086704144.6949.python-list%2540python.org%26rnum%3D8
> 
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&threadm=405109CE.503%40zora
> n.com&rnum=16&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dmetakit%26start%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26grou
> p%3Dcomp.lang.python.*%26c2coff%3D1%26scoring%3Dd%26selm%3D405109CE.503%2540zo
> ran.com%26rnum%3D16
> 
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&threadm=mailman.255.1073698
> 893.12720.python-list%40python.org&rnum=26&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dmetakit%26start%
> 3D20%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*%26c2coff%3D1%26scoring%3Dd
> %26selm%3Dmailman.255.1073698893.12720.python-list%2540python.org%26rnum%3D26
> 
> Hope this helps and my apologies for the long formatted links.
> 
> Dan

Meet a couple of helpful friends:

  http://shorl.com/
  http://tinyurl.com/

I hope this helps!

-M

-- 
Michael J. Fromberger             | Lecturer, Dept. of Computer Science
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~sting/  | Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH, USA


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Nov 12 03:34:28 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 00:34:28 -0800
Subject: web hosting with Python
References: <3cccb1d8.0411101416.690960c3@posting.google.com>
	<6f402501.0411110147.69ef6800@posting.google.com>
	<41934648$0$48933$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0411120034.6205f801@posting.google.com>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:<41934648$0$48933$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl>...
> Michael Foord wrote:
> > http://www.sapphiresoft.co.uk
> > are very good. (Good python support, python 2.3.4).
> 
> It doesn't say so on their website, it appears a PHP shop...
> Or am I looking with my eyes closed?
> 
> --Irmen

Oh and mod_python as well..........

Regards,


Fuzzy
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Nov 15 16:32:29 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:32:29 -0800
Subject: determining the number of output arguments
In-Reply-To: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <10pi7u2da3s6o86@corp.supernews.com>

Darren Dale wrote:

>Hello,
>
>def test(data):
>
>	i = ? This is the line I have trouble with
>
>	if i==1: return data 
>	else: return data[:i]
>
>a,b,c,d = test([1,2,3,4])
>
>How can I set i based on the number of output arguments defined in 
>(a,b,c,d)?
>  
>

Something like this:

def test(*args, **kwargs):
    i = len(args) + len(kwargs)

should work.  But note that the usage example you gave will result in i 
having a value of 1 -- you're passing in a single argument (which is a 
list).

Of course, if you're always going to be passing a sequence into your 
function, and you want to get the length of that sequence, then it's 
pretty simple:

def test(data):
    i = len(data)
    return data[:i]

Note, however, that this function is effectively a no-op as it stands.  
Presumably you're intending to do something to transform data, which may 
change its length?  Otherwise, it would be simpler to just modify the 
list (or a copy of it) in-place in a for loop / list comp, and not worry 
about the length at all.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From gj.den.besten at hccnet.nl  Mon Nov 29 04:29:49 2004
From: gj.den.besten at hccnet.nl (Gert-Jan den Besten)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:29:49 +0100
Subject: Help on creating a HTML by python
In-Reply-To: <50d96c9b.0411281856.6c8d2ae9@posting.google.com>
References: <50d96c9b.0411281856.6c8d2ae9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41AAEC0D.5070807@hccnet.nl>

sepgy writes:
> Can anyone help me to use a python to create an HTML photo gallery
> generator. When it's finished, it will be able find all the picture
> files (i.e. .jpg, .gif. .png files) in any given folder on the
> computer, automatically create smaller thumbnails for each image, and
> then generate a complete HTML file that displays a clickable image
> gallery. When viewed in a web browser, the HTML file will display the
> thumbnails in a neatly formatted table, and if you click on one of the
> thumbnails the full-size image will appear.
> 
> Thanks


Your script is meant to create something like this? 
http://home.hccnet.nl/gj.den.besten/20040822_maasbommel/html/overzicht_01.html

A few months ago I wrote this script to get familiarized with Python. It 
has a few disadvantages:
* It is not written in English (in Dutch actually).
* Written using a procedural/modular programming style.
   No classes are used, so it is not very "Pythonic"
* Written to meet my needs to get pictures published on my website.
* No GUI.

When I get rid of the first two disadvantages, I will publish the 
sourcecodes on my website. It will be GPL'ed.

So far, I tested it on Linux and WinNT and it seems to work fine. It 
uses the "Python Imaging Library" instead of "ImageMagick". Using PIL 
gives it a better performance.

There is another option:
http://info.linspire.com/lphoto/
This is an Open Source application, built using Python. If you can get 
the source, this may be your best choice.

Gert-Jan

-- 
  Homepage:
    http://www.GJdenBesten.nl


From ncoghlan at email.com  Sat Nov 27 08:19:05 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 23:19:05 +1000
Subject: 1 file, multiple threads
In-Reply-To: <10qffliou04dt1a@corp.supernews.com>
References: <41a7000c$0$16489$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<799208ed.0411261139.794c5a68@posting.google.com>
	<10qffliou04dt1a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <41a87ec9$0$25779$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Jeff Shannon wrote:
> Much simpler to designate a single file-handler 'server', and have each 
> thread access the file only through the intermediary of this server 
> (which could be implemented as a separate thread itself).  The server 
> then manages all of the file buffers, both in and out, and can ensure 
> that each access happens in a consistent way.

Yes - Aahz's somewhat terse suggestion of using the threading module and a Queue 
is the best way to achieve this.

Localising everything to do with parsing and formatting the file correctly also 
becomes trivial in this case - the clients of the file handler thread can deal 
with standard Python objects, leaving the file handler to cope with the file 
format issues.

It can also be very fast, if the file is small enough that the whole thing can 
be loaded into memory.

Regards,
Nick.


From davidf at sjsoft.com  Fri Nov 26 07:34:56 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:34:56 +0200
Subject: Importing Python 2.3 datetime lib into Python 2.2 - Windows
In-Reply-To: <1101469881.437081.269440@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1101469881.437081.269440@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <co77tf$589$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

milesd at chocksaway.com wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Need some advice on adding datetime functionality into Python 2.2
> Windows.  Is it worth me trying to get the 2.3 datetime(pyd) file
> working.  I don't think it is.
> Can someone recommend "Datetime" src which I can use.
> 
> thanks
> 
> Miles.
> 
A lot of people use mxDateTime:
http://www.egenix.com/files/python/mxDateTime.html
In fact I think some of datetime was based on it

David


From deepak.sarda at gmail.com  Sat Nov  6 13:29:12 2004
From: deepak.sarda at gmail.com (Deepak Sarda)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 02:29:12 +0800
Subject: checking a thread has started
In-Reply-To: <20041106092443.F851.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <eaac783a0411060558264beb07@mail.gmail.com>
	<20041106092443.F851.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <eaac783a04110610297363ac6d@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 09:30:59 -0800, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
> > I believe this bottleneck is due to Apache server - it just can't
> > spawn so many threads so quickly. It just spawns seven threads and
> > that's it.
> 
> Is it also possible that your threads are finishing before you get done
> spawning them?

I don't think so. As I said earlier, the run() method isn't even
called for some threads.

> 
> 
> > My question is: how do I check whether a call to the start() method
> > was successful? If there is a mechanism by which I can get this
> > information - I can try restarting/recreating the thread.
> 
> lst = [(func, args, kwargs), ...]
> i = 0
> while i < len(lst):
>     count = len(threading.enumerate())
>     threading.Thread(target=lst[i][0],
>                      args=lst[i][1],
>                      kwargs=lst[i][2]).start()
>     if len(threading.enumerate()) > count:
>         i += 1
>     else:
>         #You really don't want this to loop as fast as it can.
>         #1/100 of a second timeout will keep this from being a
>         #processor hog...at least during thread startup.
>         time.sleep(.01)
> 

This seems like a way to workaround the problem. I'll try it on Monday
and get back if it works. But this does bring up the point that
threading.Thread() should provide some mechanism by which a thread's
inability to start should be known. a return value or something. (I am
a newbie to threads - python is the first language I am trying threads
in so please educate me if I have wrong notions! :-)

> As an aside, are you sure you need 15 threads?  Seems a little over the
> top to me.

I do. This program sits on top of a cluster and ferries jobs to the
compute nodes - an embarrassingly parallel problem with fifteen
subtasks.

Thanks for the reply.

Deepak


From esj at harvee.org  Mon Nov  1 09:28:58 2004
From: esj at harvee.org (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 09:28:58 -0500
Subject: saved sys.path
In-Reply-To: <1gmkht7.1e1lg86qerk5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <%Xmhd.29071$g4.544104@news2.nokia.com>
	<1gmkht7.1e1lg86qerk5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cm5h4g$efs$1@sea.gmane.org>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Bengt dePaulis <bdp003 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>I have a local directory that I want to include in my sys.path
>>
>>How to save it permanently?
> 
> 
> Add to the site-packages directory of your Python instalation a textfile
> named for example bengt.pth (name doesn't matter, extension does, and
> must be lowercase) with the line of text:
> 
> /path/to/the/directory/you/mant

one of the things I've been bothered with using Python for larger 
applications is path manipulation.  For example, how does one create the 
search path necessary to find your own modules if you do not wish 
pollute site-packages with your private code.

the path file looks like this might be a good solution in preference to 
modifying sys.path in your code.  Are there any scope or limitation 
rules for this path modifier?  Can this modification be made specific to 
an application or is the new path visible to the entire world (which 
reintroduces the namespace pollution problem).

---eric



From godoy at ieee.org  Wed Nov  3 08:27:23 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 11:27:23 -0200
Subject: RadioBox in wxPython
References: <417e0899@news.seeder.net>
	<mailman.5503.1098793300.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<KGEfd.35074$QJ3.3747@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<mailman.5542.1098850844.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<m3lldknlcw.fsf@g2ctech.com>
	<mailman.5860.1099455423.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3zn1zm5ac.fsf@g2ctech.com>

Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> writes:

> Right, but I've been using wx for several years and I can assure you
> that the development branch is where you want to be.  It is no less

I've been using it for 2 years now.  And I assure you the stable branch
is where I want to be. :-)  The development branch causes me trouble
with Windows 98 machines, used by some of our costumers.  I've posted
about it two or three times on the wxPython ML.

> stable and tends to be far better functionality-wise.  The only possible
> instability is in the API and frankly you'll only notice if you move
> from 2.4 to to 2.5.

I agree with you that there are a lot of new functionalities and
facilities that are very interesting.  Unfortunately, they don't work on
each and every system we need to support, so... 

>> WRT the hack, the wxwidgets people abandoned the changes there...  
>
> But not the wxPython people, which is what we care about here ;)

I hope so.  I found the interface much cleaner, but I thought Robin had
some "I lost time" feeling when he posted saying that wxWidgets people
hadn't done the change as expected.

-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at ieee.org>


From square690410 at yahoo.com.tw  Fri Nov  5 05:00:41 2004
From: square690410 at yahoo.com.tw (Leon)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 18:00:41 +0800
Subject: sys.stdout  .>_<.
Message-ID: <cmfj0e$gcp$1@netnews.hinet.net>

import os,sys
a = os.fdopen(sys.stdout.fileno(),"w")
b = os.fdopen(sys.stdout.fileno(),"w")
a.write("test1 ")
b.write("test2 ")

stdout result is

test1 test2

but use general file object such as...

a = open("test.txt","w")
b = open("test.txt","w")
a.write("test1")
b.write("test2")

the "test.txt" file content is

test2

how to do this result to sys.stdout




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Nov 24 15:26:33 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:26:33 -0500
Subject: executable from python cod
In-Reply-To: <co2p3s$inq$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <77969915.0411241036.553c3da3@posting.google.com>
	<co2p3s$inq$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <co2qoo$3jh$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> You seem to ask about python standalone executables, preferrably compiled
> and small in size. The answer is: No, that's not doable. There exist things
> like pyexe, that attempt to create compact installers - only the neccessary
> modules, and the core interpreter. Maybe that helps you?

Diez mistyped: it's actually "py2exe".  A Google search will reveal
all additional details...

-Peter


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Nov 26 05:30:36 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 11:30:36 +0100
Subject: protocols, inheritance and polymorphism
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>
	<Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<YWKod.137814$HA.44609@attbi_s01>
	<donn-F6A9D8.11153623112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<tqadnT2kAIXJEj7cRVn-hA@rogers.com>
	<donn-F39B72.13183123112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<mqedndyH_YCYUT7cRVn-uQ@rogers.com>
	<donn-D778C1.17100223112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<786dnYZkrq-ieT7cRVn-tw@rogers.com> <1101273995.954137@yasure>
	<s4qdnUDCJoJ9vjncRVn-hA@rogers.com>
	<tyfhdnefhcf.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<41a6340f$0$307$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <tyfvfbsewc3.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Christophe Cavalaria <chris.cavalaria at free.fr> writes:

> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> 
> > "Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> writes:
> > 
> >> Can you elaborate on problems that static languages have with OOP?
> > 
> > They make dynamic polymorphism impossible.

> Besides, it's easy to do a 'safe' dynamic_cast, just assert that the
> pointer you get isn't 0 after the cast.

Yes, you can "easily" do the work that the absent dynamic type system
should be doing for you (and Turing equivalence tells us that that we
can implement a decent dynamic type system as well). The fact remains
that the objects *are* *dynamically* typed, even though the language
claims to be statically typed. The fact that statically typed
languages feel the need to introduce dynamic typing (however poorly
supported it may be) in order to support OOP, points to the fact that
static type systems DO have problems with OOP, which is what the
question was about.

Specifically, dynamic polymorphism is impossible without dynamic
typing.


From menard.nospam.steve at gmail.nospamisaid.com  Wed Nov 24 08:57:15 2004
From: menard.nospam.steve at gmail.nospamisaid.com (Steve Menard)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:57:15 -0500
Subject: Python 2.4 and Visual C++ Express
In-Reply-To: <9APod.4998157$ic1.468025@news.easynews.com>
References: <XQfod.15475$3u6.726077@wagner.videotron.net>
	<9APod.4998157$ic1.468025@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <30ji62F31ppn0U1@uni-berlin.de>

Jive wrote:
> Are you saying that Python 2.4 will not compile under MS VC++ 6.0?  That's
> horrifying.  Say it isn't so!!!  I have just ported Python to an embedded
> system using VC++ 6.0.  It will always be compiled using 6.0, for two
> reasons: 1) I cannot afford the manhours for changing compilers, and 2) Bill
> Gates has enough money already, alright?  I would hate to think that I am
> now stuck at Python 2.3 for eternity.
> 

That is not what I am saying. The "what's new in Python" claims python 
2.4 will
compile with both versions 6 and 7.1 of Microsoft's compiler.

However, the  standard download, that most users will have, will be 
compiled using the 7.1. And so any binary packages to be installed on a 
2.4 dist will also have to be compiled with 7.1.


Steve




From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Wed Nov 17 06:56:06 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:56:06 +0100
Subject: don't NaN & infinities hide FP errors
In-Reply-To: <cnf963$ioc$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0411170130.31d247@posting.google.com>
	<cnf963$ioc$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <419B3C56.5070305@geochemsource.com>


> Just try it. 1./0. raises a ZeroDivisionError, math.log(0) raises a
> math range error, and math.log(-1) yields nan. 

This is not true. On UNIX systems, math.log(-1) will be NaN.
On a Windows system, math.log(-1) will raise this:

ValueError: math domain error

math.log(0) will raise the same on both:

OverflowError: math range error

I do not have a clue about MACs and other OSes.

I wonder why it is this way? Python under Windows and UNIX is different,
even when the architecture is the same. (i386). Is it because of the OS?
Isn't it possible to implement floating point arithmetic with assembler 
code,
and use that instead of the built-in floating point arithmetic of the C 
compiler
under Windows? Clearly, the hardware is capable of using NaN and Inf;
I believe that Python should work the same way on any system, if there is a
way to do that.

  Laci 2.0





From beps at email.it  Mon Nov 22 12:44:58 2004
From: beps at email.it (beps)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:44:58 +0100
Subject: Text widget - insert line
References: <cnt1el$san$1@news.newsland.it>
	<41a21527$0$8170$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <cnt8is$tt7$1@news.newsland.it>

Eric Brunel ha scritto:
> I'm not sure I understand the question... Do you have some code generating
the 
> first, and you want it to generate the second? If my guess is correct, can
you 
> show us the code? It will surely only be a matter of inserting a 'n' at the
end 
> of each line, then do a textWidget.insert(END, ...), but I'm just guessing
here...

Here there's my code:
def show_customers(self, customers) :
##      data is a list
        for data in customers:
            dato = operator.concat(str(data), '/n')
            self.text_wdg.insert(0.0, data)####
##          self.text_wdg.insert(, '/n')

But is wrong, output:
|-----------------------------|
|datadatadata/ndatadatadata/n |
|datadatadata/ndatadatadata/n |
|                             |
|-----------------------------|

How I can do?
Thank you

-- 

questo articolo e` stato inviato via web dal servizio gratuito 
http://www.newsland.it/news segnala gli abusi ad abuse at newsland.it




From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Nov  4 12:12:15 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 18:12:15 +0100
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmp6xu.zmiw6gs3250sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5890.1099529745.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmpyz8.11h86a71kjmdttN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5916.1099587353.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmdntd$788$04$1@news.t-online.com>

> I'm sorry, I guess I still don't understand this example.  It sounds like
> you're just going between untyped (array of bytes) and typed (functions,
> data
> structures, etc.)  I'm not seeing how you're, for example, casting a
> function to a data structure, or a data structure of one type to a data
> structure of another type.
> 
> Anything can (and sometimes should) be treated just as an array of bytes,
> in an analogous method to how in an OO language with a base class Object,
> sometimes it's appropriate to treat a given instance of a class as an
> Object, rather than
> it's particular subclass of Object.  I wouldn't consider treating
> function, data structures, etc. as arrays of bytes (or vice versa) as
> something that takes advantage of "weak-typing", but rather something that
> takes advantage of the ability to treat data as untyped.
> 
> Hopefully this clarified my confusion and when you get a chance, you can
> try to
> explain it to me again?  Thanks,


I think what Alex means is that if you allow for re-interpreting data as
simply byte arrays and the other way round, you end up with exactly the
weak typing you defined before: The arbitrary reinterpretation of memory
portions.

Consider this simple example:

int main() {
  float f = 13345.0;
  void *mem = (void*)&f;
  int *i = ((int*)mem);
  printf("%f, %i, %d\n", f, mem, *i);
}

For read-only-cases (read-only with respect to the RAM) one might be able to
allow access to the memory without opening the weak-typing loophole. But if
you want read bytes into memory, you'll end up with an array of bytes
firsthand, and whatever interpretation you impose on it by casting, there
is no way of forbidding a wrong casting.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 01:51:21 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 01:51:21 -0500
Subject: Rounding curiosity
In-Reply-To: <h_Bmd.45526$QJ3.10543@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
References: <20041116182254.6cb5a603.bartley9@pacbell.net>
	<419ad276$0$1581$a1866201@visi.com>
	<h_Bmd.45526$QJ3.10543@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <1f7befae04111622515b39ba64@mail.gmail.com>

[PyBo]
> To all those who are feeling so smug and superior, perhapts you could
> have noticed that I was pointing out that the round() function does not
> perform as documented?

Hmm.  You didn't mention the documentation.  Really.  You mentioned
"different CPU's and operating systems", and you mentioned that

    Obviously, '476.83999999999997' is not rounded to two decimal
    places.

That's the point you were missing:  it is in fact rounded to two
decimal places, to the very best that is possible to do using your
hardware's binary float arithmetic.  If you truly need to be told,
then math.sqrt() doesn't compute exact square roots either, and infix
"+" applied to floats doesn't compute exact sums either, and ... etc. 
There's nothing special about round() here.

Try doing it "by hand" and you'll get the same result:

>>> int(5e8/1024**2 * 100.0 + 0.5) / 100.0
476.83999999999997

Or, without any obfuscating convolutions, simply this:

>>> 476.84
476.83999999999997

The decimal number 476.84 cannot be represented exactly using binary
fp -- it's impossible to get the result you expected.  This phenomenon
is pervasive, affecting all functions and operations producing floats,
not specific to round() -- so even if you had actually been talking
about round's documentation, it still would have been most helpful to
give you the references you were given, discussing the *general*
issue.  round() behavior is just a little pimple on binary fp's big,
fat butt <wink>.


From mfuhr at fuhr.org  Sun Nov  7 12:47:23 2004
From: mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr)
Date: 7 Nov 2004 10:47:23 -0700
Subject: determine IP
References: <20041107165357.14104.909475493.divmod.quotient.1252@ohm>
	<mailman.6077.1099846703.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418e5fab$1_2@omega.dimensional.com>

Ed Leafe <ed at leafe.com> writes:

> On Nov 7, 2004, at 11:53 AM, exarkun at divmod.com wrote:
>
> >   The above code will _always_ return the local IP address, regardless 
> > of NAT configuration.  For example, running on my desktop:
> >
> >>>> import socket
> >>>> s = socket.socket()
> >>>> s.connect(('google.com', 80))
> >>>> print s.getsockname()
> >     ('192.168.42.4', 40044)
>
> 	Not OMM:
>
>  >>> import socket
>  >>> s = socket.socket()
>  >>> s.connect(('google.com', 80))
>  >>> s.getsockname()
> ('66.66.222.137', 55096)
>  >>>
> 	The local IP address is in the 192.168 subnet.

Is your machine dual-homed?  getsockname() returns the IP address
if the interface used for the connection, so if you have multiple
interfaces (e.g., one outside and one inside) then you'll get the
one being used.  Run that script on a machine whose only interface
is on the inside network (i.e., a machine that must route through
the box doing the NAT) and you'll see a private address.

-- 
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/


From pythongnome at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 22 17:45:07 2004
From: pythongnome at hotmail.com (Lucas Raab)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:45:07 GMT
Subject: instant messenging
In-Reply-To: <2004112108293216807%craig@yumaca>
References: <d01od.8535$Qh3.3891@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<2004112108293216807%craig@yumaca>
Message-ID: <TZtod.9969$Qh3.8066@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>

craig wrote:
> On 2004-11-21 06:47:53 -0700, Lucas Raab <pythongnome at hotmail.com> said:
> 
>> craig wrote:
>>
>>> On 2004-11-19 15:08:24 -0700, Lucas Raab <pythongnome at hotmail.com> said:
>>>
>>>> Are there any instant messenging programs out there for use in a 
>>>> Python app?? I've heard of Jabber, but never looke into it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There are other instant messaging platforms, besides jabber.  I use 
>>> AIM(AOL Instant Messenger) quite a bit, and here is a python 
>>> implementation: http://www.jamwt.com/Py-TOC/
>>>
>>> I use it as a BOT, I can share my code if you care.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> -Craig
>>>
>>
>> Thank you. Please do.
> 
> 
> http://www.yuma.ca/wordpress/index.php?p=118
> 
> It's not remotely close to a good release, and the code isn't error 
> checked very well, but my bot (yumatito) has been up about 7 days now on 
> AIM without crashing, that's a good sign :P  His torrent download 
> ability doesn't work yet, the code is there,  but broken, as I haven't 
> completely grasped how the btdownload code works yet.. feel free to fix 
> that for me :P
> 
> Hope this helps,
> Craig
> 

Ah, could you possibly have a zip file?? I looked on your site and 
downloaded the BZ2 file, but I'm not sure how to extract it. I have 
Cygwin for another application, but I don't know how to get the files 
out the BZ2. So either a ZIP file or instructions on extracting files in 
  BZ2 files would be greatly appreciated.


From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Tue Nov 23 16:07:12 2004
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 22:07:12 +0100
Subject: Using alternative PyObject* in dynamically created classes
In-Reply-To: <tyf653whfyi.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <tyfbrdu1b2m.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyf653whfyi.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <A57705D4-3D93-11D9-B06A-000D93AD379E@mac.com>


On 23-nov-04, at 14:07, Jacek Generowicz wrote:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:
>
>> I would like some of my _dynamically_ created new-style classes to
>> have instances which are not represented by the standard PyObject, but
>> one which has an extra void* slot which I want to use for my nefarious
>> purposes, in extension functions. The pointer need not be initialized
>> (for now) I just want it to be there in case I want to stuff something
>> in there later on in the run.
>>
>> What is the laziest way of achieving this?
>>
>> As far as I can tell, PyTypeObject (and its allocators, deallocators,
>> methods in general) only refer to the type of the instance struct via
>> tp_basicsize (where only the struct's size is held).
>>
>> So my first attempt merely resets tp_basicsize to the size of my
>> alternative instance struct, as soon as the class is created. This
>> goes horribly wrong when instances of the class are deallocated, but I
>> can't see why.
>>
>> Where else must I provide information about the instance struct type ?
>>
>>
>> [I will be away for a few days, from a few hours from now; please
>> don't take a long response time as a sign of rudeness.]
>
>
> Hmm ... no takers ?
>
> :-(

Appearently not :-).

Do you want to create those classes in Python, or from your extension 
module? If you create the class in C its easy to add a hidden slot. You 
can even add a field to the type object that contains the location of 
that hidden slot.

Ronald



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Nov 17 05:16:23 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 02:16:23 -0800
Subject: eval syntax problem
In-Reply-To: <86pt2c3lgx.fsf@mut.mteege.de>
References: <86pt2c3lgx.fsf@mut.mteege.de>
Message-ID: <cOGdnV2rQ9dquQbcRVn-qA@speakeasy.net>

Matthias Teege wrote:

> what is wrong with
> 
> eval('print %s %s %s' % ('%s', '%', 'foo'))

print is a statement, not an expression, and eval only handles 
expressions.  Use exec instead.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
   Perfect situations must go wrong
   -- Florence, _Chess_


From bokr at oz.net  Sat Nov 13 03:03:57 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 08:03:57 GMT
Subject: escape sequences in list comprehensions
References: <940ee3e8.0411120517.488d16ca@posting.google.com>
	<cn401c$bcp$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <4195bf2d.335181475@news.oz.net>

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:46:17 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

>kartik wrote:
>> Escape sequences don't seem to work in strings within list comprehensions:
>> 
>>>>>print ['%s\n' %i for i in [1,2,3]]
>> 
>> ['1\n', '2\n', '3\n']
>> 
>> What am I missing?
>
>Others have answered, but not explained.  When you print
>a list (in other words, when you display the results of
>calling str() on a list), the list chooses how to display
>itself.  It chooses to display the brackets at the start
>and end, the commas separating the items, and the results
>of calling repr() on each individual item.  That means
>that strings are shown with quotation marks (which are not
>part of the string normally) and with special characters
>represented as escape sequences.
>
>The following appears to be what you believed you wanted,
>though it's not really what you wanted <wink>:
>
>lst = ['%s\n' % i for i in [1,2,3]]
>print '[' + ', '.join([str(x) for x in lst]) + ']'
>
Maybe this is what he wanted (not recommended for general use ;-):

 >>> class FunnyStr(str):
 ...     def __repr__(self): return str(self)
 ...

Plain:
 >>> lst = ['%s\n' % i for i in [1,2,3]]
 >>> lst
 ['1\n', '2\n', '3\n']

Funny:
 >>> lst = [FunnyStr('%s\n' % i) for i in [1,2,3]]
 >>> lst
 [1
 , 2
 , 3
 ]
 >>> print lst
 [1
 , 2
 , 3
 ]

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From bokr at oz.net  Sat Nov 27 20:14:32 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 01:14:32 GMT
Subject: futue feature division not found  (embedded)
References: <Ix7qd.5229833$ic1.487950@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <41a925d5.1197560430@news.oz.net>

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 22:51:24 GMT, "Jive" <someone at microsoft.com> wrote:

>I've got a program with Python 2.3 embedded.  When I try to run a script
>containing "from __future__ import division", I get an exception:
>
>    File "main2.py", line 3
>    from __future__ import divison
>SyntaxError: future feature divison is not defined
                                 ^^ s/divison/division/  ;-)
>
>Anyone know how to fix that?  BTW, when I run the program with
>CO_FUTURE_DIVISION set in PyCompilerFlags, division works the new way, as it
                                                ^^^
>should.
>
>
HTH. On to the next bug ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Nov 26 10:11:38 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:11:38 +0100
Subject: Protecting Python source
In-Reply-To: <f4a45085.0411260701.5859bf43@posting.google.com>
References: <f4a45085.0411260701.5859bf43@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041126151138.GA6029@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Fri, Nov 26, 2004 at 07:01:27AM -0800, Alan Sheehan wrote:
> Hi pythonistas,
> 
> I am looking for methods of deploying applications with end users so
> that the python code is tamper proof. [...]

To get more meaningful answers, please expand on what exactly you mean with
"tamper proof". What is the attacker scenario? Are there passwords for external
systems embedded in the Python source code, or what's the deal about it?

-- Gerhard
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From someone at microsoft.com  Sat Nov 27 17:58:19 2004
From: someone at microsoft.com (Jive)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 22:58:19 GMT
Subject: Help please, turning off threads
References: <L0rpd.5109192$ic1.479040@news.easynews.com>
	<41a7041c$0$25785$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <fE7qd.5230275$ic1.487690@news.easynews.com>


"Nick Coghlan" <ncoghlan at email.com> wrote in message
news:41a7041c$0$25785$5a62ac22 at per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> Jive wrote:
> > Can someone tell me how to "configure" for no threads by hand?  Does it
> > suffice just to remove the offending file threadmodule.c? If that is the
> > case, why the error message rather than just
>
> I believe the configure script removes threadmodule.c from the build
process
> when threads are not enabled. I haven't actually checked, though.
>
> Building threadmodule.c when threads aren't being used suggests a mistake
in the
> build process - but is it the inclusion of threadmodule.c which is
incorrect, or
> is it the lack of the WITH_THREADS definition?
>

In this case it's neither.  I just changed the #ifdef in threadmodule.c so
the file is effectively empty when WITH_THREADS is not defined.  That seems
to work okay.  No problems so far.

 I don't didn't want to remove the file from the project.  I might want to
compile with threads enabled later.  If and when that happens, I won't have
to remember to include the threadmodule.c file.  I'll just define the
WITH_THREADS and all will be kookletikoo.





From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Tue Nov  2 10:54:49 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 07:54:49 -0800
Subject: Confused with Underscores in Python
In-Reply-To: <cm87b4$e01$1@news.swman.net.uk>
References: <cm87b4$e01$1@news.swman.net.uk>
Message-ID: <4187b2af$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

abhay wrote:
> I have really not understood the concept of underscores used in some of the
> methods in python. Is it somewhat smilar to declaring public, private or
> protected methods as in java.

In a way.  Python's "magic" names (those treated specially by the
system) both begin and end with double-underscores.  This rule is
to allow Python's evolution as a language without interfereing with
user-defined names.  The "next" method on iterators should probably
have been "__next__".

A single underscore following a name is used for names that would
naturally be a keyword (class_ for class, for example).

In a class, a method name beginning with a single underscore is a
method is means roughly, "this is an internal method (or variable),
not an interface method.  Don't expect this to work the same way or
even exist in the next version."

A name beginning with a single underscore means roughly, "this is an
internal function, method, or variable, not an interface method.  Don't
expect this to work the same way or even exist in the next version."

In a class, a method or variable name beginning with a double-underscore
(and not ending with a double-underscore) is meant to be class-local.
These names are useful primarily to avoid name conflicts with super-
and sub- classes, as in the cases of "mixin" style programming.
Some programmers use this as a means to "enforce" privacy, but it
really doesn't work -- it is easy to defeat if you care to, and a
single initial underscore should be enough to warn off those who will
cooperate.

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From johnw822003 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 16 11:35:15 2004
From: johnw822003 at yahoo.com (John)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 08:35:15 -0800
Subject: newbie question
Message-ID: <c30e885a.0411160835.35e39084@posting.google.com>

Can python do Shell programming or system programming as perl does?
Thanks.

John


From cme at lampcoders.net  Wed Nov 17 14:09:58 2004
From: cme at lampcoders.net (Christian Meissner)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 20:09:58 +0100
Subject: Newbie:  Python & ADFGVX Cipher Cracking?
In-Reply-To: <cnfoj7$fpq$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
References: <4mJmd.1242$Tq6.565@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cnfoj7$fpq$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <301m1mF2ptcjrU1@uni-berlin.de>

> 
> Wishing a happy day
>         LOBI

Here my 'top', while running it with the whole alphabet:

Processes:  58 total, 3 running, 55 sleeping... 149 threads 
20:07:04
Load Avg:  1.39, 1.87, 1.78     CPU usage:  87.7% user, 12.3% sys, 0.0% idle
SharedLibs: num =  113, resident = 9.20M code,  704K data, 2.38M LinkEdit
MemRegions: num =  8629, resident =  632M + 2.68M private, 34.0M shared
PhysMem:  79.2M wired,  451M active,  226M inactive,  757M used, 10.9M free
VM: 4.60G + 74.9M   32522(0) pageins, 26052(424) pageouts

   PID COMMAND      %CPU   TIME   #TH #PRTS #MREGS RPRVT  RSHRD  RSIZE 
VSIZE
   649 top          7.3%  0:05.39   1    16    25   252K   464K  2.12M 
27.1M
   636 bash         0.0%  0:00.04   1    12    18   176K   908K   812K 
18.2M
   635 login        0.0%  0:00.06   1    13    37   132K   456K   496K 
26.9M
   634 python      92.1%  4:51.96   1    11  2308   569M+  372K   326M- 
  614M-
   561 bash         0.0%  0:00.13   1    13    21   108K   912K   696K 
18.2M
   560 login        0.0%  0:00.03   1    13    37    64K   456K   316K 
26.9M
   508 Terminal     1.8%  6:38.50   5    90   210  3.15M  7.70M- 8.17M 
  151M
   429 thunderbir   0.9%  0:52.32   6    92   235  6.62M- 5.63M- 7.26M- 
  179M
   428 firefox-bi   0.0%  2:56.19  10   190   310  13.8M  11.7M- 17.4M- 
  344M


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Nov  2 08:54:18 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 08:54:18 -0500
Subject: extending file?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5780.1099340819.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5780.1099340819.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8vudnfFCkdgUDBrcRVn-jA@powergate.ca>

Chris Cioffi wrote:
> Are there any docs or examples of extending the file type?  I work
> with EDI messages that are very like text files, just with a few
> quirks. ;-)  and I was wondering if I could strech and twist the built
> in file type to make things a bit faster and more full featured.
> 
> Specifically I would need to alter the iterator and ideally the line terminitor.

It's unclear what you want to do.  Can you provide an example?

Also consider whether you can achieve what you want merely
by creating your own "file-like" object that wraps the
standard file type.  This is the usual way to proceed.

-Peter


From JSmuts at clover.co.za  Fri Nov 26 05:58:12 2004
From: JSmuts at clover.co.za (Jaco Smuts)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:58:12 +0200
Subject: automated windows install
In-Reply-To: <OF78B1BD39.2766AA70-ON42256F58.003A8620-42256F58.003AF807@clover.co.za>
Message-ID: <OFA9B18849.5A390D89-ON42256F58.003C24F2-42256F58.003C42AD@clover.co.za>

OK, apparently this is possible using ActiveState's msi installer. So I've 
started downloading this.

Any thoughts / other suggestions would still be appreciated.

thanks
jaco










Jaco Smuts <JSmuts at clover.co.za> 
Sent by: python-list-bounces+jsmuts=clover.co.za at python.org
11/26/2004 12:44 PM

To
python-list at python.org
cc

Subject
automated windows install







Hello there. 


Is there a way to automate selections for the windows python installer. ( 
ie. --directory=d:\usr\python234 -compile=yes -archive=no) 


Being facetitious. Becuase I mostly develop on windows (work laptop) I 
often rebuild my machine. I like to do as much as possible from scripts, 
hence the question is there a way to automate selections for the windows 
python installer. 

I prefer installing the distro from python.org and adding the win32 and 
other modules myself. But that's the next step. 

thanks a lot 

jaco 

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
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From gohadbhai at rediffmail.com  Thu Nov 18 02:41:47 2004
From: gohadbhai at rediffmail.com (Sandeep Avinash Gohad)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 07:41:47 -0000
Subject: Accepting input from Command prompt
Message-ID: <20041118074147.2027.qmail@webmail36.rediffmail.com>

 ?
Hello

I want to take a file name as an input from user on command prompt,
I searched the documentation with "sys.stdin" & "raw_input()"
but by using ("sys.stdin" & "raw_input()") I could not accept the filename.
(maybe the solution was there but the syntax i used was wrong)

fin = open("c:/200411a.abc","rb")
Here If i want to accept "c:/200411a.abc" as an input from user
also want to validate weather the path is correct or not.
and accordingly want to inform user.
please guide me how to do that....

Thanx
Sandeep
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From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Nov 15 11:06:55 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:06:55 +0200
Subject: .pyc files...
References: <E1CTDp7-00050j-00@galvatron.kickingdragon.com>
	<mailman.6343.1100420001.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<x74qjsnj1o.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<4197ec65$0$21106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <t0lhp09cd68dna2sfv46qdhtc69ubveb2d@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:38:20 +0100, rumours say that Irmen de Jong
<irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl> might have written:

>Mike Meyer wrote:
>> "Simon John" <simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>>>or with backticks:  rm -rf `find . -name '*.pyc'`
>> Better with $(: rm -rf $(find . -name '*.pyc').
>
>What's the difference? I've never seen (read: used)
>the $(...) syntax...

tzot$ : $(echo $(ls))
tzot$ : `echo \`ls\``
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
"Tssss!" --Brad Pitt as Achilles in unprecedented Ancient Greek


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Nov 30 03:12:38 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:12:38 +0100
Subject: pre-PEP generic objects
References: <a8Oqd.110119$V41.14593@attbi_s52>
Message-ID: <coha1m$h0d$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steven Bethard wrote:

> Currently, if a Python programmer makes this design decision, they are
> forced to declare a new class, and then build instances of this class.

FORCED to create a new class, and FORCED to create instances of
their own class instead of your class?  without this, Python must surely
be unusable.  no wonder nobody's ever managed to use it for anything.

</F> 





From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Nov  5 18:14:25 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 17:14:25 -0600
Subject: executing python code
In-Reply-To: <cmgvvd$chn$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu> (Darren Dale's message of
	"Fri, 05 Nov 2004 17:47:43 -0500")
References: <cmgvvd$chn$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <m3pt2r28j2.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "Darren" == Darren Dale <dd55 at cornell.edu> writes:

    Darren> Some time ago I asked about executing a python program or
    Darren> script. For windows, I was informed that the .py extension
    Darren> could be added to some list of executable extensions, and
    Darren> then I could just type "mycode" instead of "python
    Darren> mycode.py". Great advice, worked like a charm.

    Darren> I recently jumped ship, and have been running Gentoo Linux
    Darren> for about two months. Is it possible to get the same
    Darren> behavior on Linux? I thought it would have something to do
    Darren> with adding the #!/usr/bin/env python line to my code, but
    Darren> I'm not sure what this is supposed to do 

'#!/usr/bin/env python' will try and run the script using the default
python in your environment.  If you wanted to specify a specific
python, you could use, for example

#!/usr/bin/python2.1

    Darren> it didnt work, that much I know.

You need to set the executable bit on the file.  windows determines
whether a file is executable based on the extension, and linux based
on the file mode

  > chmod +x myscript.py
  > ./myscript.py

The ./ part says to use the file in the current working directory, and
may be required if the current directory is not in your PATH.  You can
copy myscript anywhere in your PATH (eg /usr/local/bin), resource your
bashrc file (or open an new terminal) and the just do

  > myscript.py  

or with tab completion ....

 > myscTAB  # should complete myscript.py  

Finally, you may want to add a pybin dir to your home dir where your
personal scripts reside.  If you do that, just add that to your path,
eg in your .bashrc file.

JDH





From peter at somewhere.com  Mon Nov 29 05:04:50 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 11:04:50 +0100
Subject: Protecting Python source
In-Reply-To: <lnSpd.18976$Km6.232360@news4.e.nsc.no>
References: <f4a45085.0411260701.5859bf43@posting.google.com>
	<lnSpd.18976$Km6.232360@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <coesrc$24i$1@swifty.westend.com>

RCS schrieb:
>> I am looking for methods of deploying applications with end users so
>> that the python code is tamper proof. What are my options ?
> 
> 
> An interesting question is, what makes your source code so innovative as 
> to mandate this tamper proof thing?

I can think of 3 reasons to prevent tampering:

- You need money and want to sell your software on a "per seat" basis.

- You don't want customers to fiddle with your code and then innocently
   call for support and demand "bug fixes" for free.

- Your customer demands closed source because the code contains trade
   secrets.

Protecting source has nothing to do with innovation. It's about making
money.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From jeffrey at fro.man  Mon Nov 29 16:43:10 2004
From: jeffrey at fro.man (Jeffrey Froman)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:43:10 -0800
Subject: using os
References: <mailman.6890.1101764022.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10qn62p3mprcdbb@corp.supernews.com>

Juliano Freitas wrote:

> how can i get just the directories in other directorie without a files
> using the os module in Python??

You can test using os.path.isdir, for example:

>>> import os
>>> [x for x in os.listdir('.') if os.path.isdir(x)]          


   Jeffrey


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Nov  8 15:18:08 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:18:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Determining combination of bits
References: <x3Qjd.121786$hj.41260@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <loom.20041108T211553-540@post.gmane.org>

Sean Berry <sean <at> buildingonline.com> writes:
>
> I want to determine the keys, powers of 2, that comprise the number.
> 
> Ex.  22 = 16+4+2
>        25 = 16+8+1
>        9   = 8+1
> ...etc...

This sounds suspiciously like a homework, so I'm just going to give a hint here:

>>> import math
>>> math.log(22, 2)
4.4594316186372973
>>> 2**int(math.log(22, 2))
16
>>> 2**int(math.log(22 - 16, 2))
4
>>> 2**int(math.log(22 - 16 - 4 - 2, 2))
2
>>> 

Hope this is helpful.

Steve



From mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net  Sat Nov 20 13:00:05 2004
From: mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net (Jean Brouwers)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 18:00:05 GMT
Subject: SPARK v.s. PLY
References: <ed89f8f2.0411180648.49ac6763@posting.google.com>
	<cninkf$qga$1@news.sap-ag.de>
	<ed89f8f2.0411190651.672077d8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <201120041001227905%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>


Not ANTLR, but we do use SimpleParse/mxTextTools.  For an example, see

<http://www.vrplumber.com/programming/simpleparse/simpleparse.html>

and

<http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-simple.html>


Also, check other web pages by David Mertz on "Text Processing in
Python"

<http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/views/linux/articles.jsp?sort_ord
er=desc&expand=&sort_by=Date&show_abstract=true&view_by=Search&search_by
=charming+python%3A>

His book with that same title is highly recommended reading

<http://gnosis.cx/TPiP/>

/Jean Brouwers
 ProphICy Semiconductor, Inc.



In article <ed89f8f2.0411190651.672077d8 at posting.google.com>, Tran Tuan
Anh <anhtt at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Anyone has used ANTLR?
> 
> Daniel Dittmar <daniel.dittmar at sap.corp> wrote in message
> news:<cninkf$qga$1 at news.sap-ag.de>...
> > Tran Tuan Anh wrote:
> > > I am searching for a suitable parsing tool to parse C++ for a research
> > > project.
> > > Actually I am parsing SystemC, it is a C++ lib with some macros, hence
> > > I need to modify the grammar a little bit to handle some new keywords.
> > 
> > OpenC++ (http://opencxx.sourceforge.net/) is not written in Python, but 
> > it knows probably more about C++ than any simple parser generator.
> > 
> > Daniel


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 28 19:46:12 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 01:46:12 +0100
Subject: Is there a consensus on how to check a polymorphic instance?
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<KrKdnXvgGaP_Jz_cRVn-pg@rogers.com>
	<1101189570.958016.283130@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<-sSdnZs3heYawz7cRVn-iA@rogers.com>
	<1101268711.261729.54980@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<co2923$qs6$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <1gnzobo.ut5xh5zy24tmN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

>  > But the problem is still there: how do you know what
> > it looks like before you treat it as a cat? isinstance(), , as Steve
> > state, is too rigid.
> 
> The argument is that you probably don't really need to know
> what it looks like *before* you try to use it, even if you
> think you do.  The cases where you really do are probably those
> Alex Martelli's recipe (mentioned near the start of the thread)
> is intended to help.  (Specifically, avoiding the situation
> where the object implements the required protocol only partially,
> but you don't find that out until you've already started using
> the object, possibly corrupting it in the process.)

Exactly.  The recipe's still in the CB 2nd edition (which I should be
editing right now instead of doing usenet, with deadline so terribly
close and lots of enhancements left to do, but hey, it IS 1:30 AM, I
deserve a little break;-).

The right solution is adaptation (PEP 246, Eby's PyProtocols, etc), but
until we can convince Guido of that, so that adaptation becomes
widespread, duck typing, and occasionally (when needed) "accurate LBYL"
remain the best approach.

And don't forget unit-tests -- see Robert Martin's now-famous article at
http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=4639 .


Alex


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  1 03:06:09 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:06:09 +0200
Subject: Faking out __name__ == __main__
References: <mailman.5739.1099260363.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41856376.1288438706@news.oz.net>
	<mailman.5749.1099296396.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gmkgyb.14ofvg13qzjurN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

> bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
> > 
> > On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:05:59 -0500, Ed Leafe <ed at leafe.com> wrote:
> >  >>> def test():
> >  ...     d = {'__name__': '__xxxx__'}
> >  ...     execfile('tmain.py', d)
> 
> I believe it is technically more Pythonic to use __import__ rather than
> execfile, if only because you have access to the module itself when you
> are done.

Unfortunately, while __import__ does take parameters giving local and
global namespaces, it doesn't use them in anywhere like the way that
execfile does.  In particular, how would you "force __name__" with
__import__, as per this thread's subj?  I don't think you can...


Alex


From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Nov 16 13:01:20 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:01:20 -0800
Subject: Redirecting system output quietly
References: <mailman.6395.1100563802.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<XIdmd.44547$QJ3.18327@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<abf57198.0411160816.26d192c9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <donn-7911B7.10011916112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <abf57198.0411160816.26d192c9 at posting.google.com>,
 hugonz at hotmail.com (Hugo Gonz?lez) wrote:

> There's an even easier way to do this. You can use the "commands"
> module:
> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-commands.html
> 
> This is easier and faster than using popen, and will allow you to get
> exit status (os.popen* won't let you)

You can look at the implementation, it's a Python source file
commands.py in the library directory.  I mention that because
you might be interested to see how it uses os.popen, and gets
the status.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From arkham at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 18:00:31 2004
From: arkham at gmail.com (Rob Snyder)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 23:00:31 GMT
Subject: Enumerating Classes in Modules
Message-ID: <jKQmd.16312$Vk6.11976@twister.nyc.rr.com>

Greetings -

I have a situation where I need to be able to have a Python function that
will take all the modules in a given directory and find all the classes
defined in these modules by name. Ultimately, I would need to loop through
all of these, instantiating each of the classes in turn and calling a
pre-known method of each.

Finding the name of each module is not a problem, but loading the classes
out the module once I know the name is where I'm lost.

The idea is basically to support "plug-ins" for an application I'm building.
I want the end user to be able to sub-class an example plug in class, then
throw the implementation in a given directory, where I'll find it
automatically when I need it.

I *am* still relatively new to Python, so I fully appreciate that I may be
simply going about this all the wrong way. Any guidance or redirection
anyone can provide would be appreciated.

Many Thanks.

Rob Snyder


From sxanth at ceid.upatras.gr  Mon Nov  8 19:28:40 2004
From: sxanth at ceid.upatras.gr (Stelios Xanthakis)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 16:28:40 -0800
Subject: How come wxPython isn't in the standard library?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6060.1099838610.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org>	<aj3u52-a2r.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>	<ogjv52-anq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<mailman.6060.1099838610.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41900F38.70609@ceid.upatras.gr>

BJ?rn Lindqvist wrote:
> There seems to be some good reasons that
> wxPython isn't in the stdlib yet.
> 

One more: Maybe the wxPython folks should add some documentation first.

I've worked with PyGTK, PyQT, wxPython and Tkinter for writting some
wrappers and I was *not* impressed with wxPython. The only strength
of it is that it looks good almost everywhere. That is of course 
important --that's why HTML interfaces are so popular today--, but
wx is very big and not so cool to program. One can even accuse it
of bloat.

OTOH, it is a fact that the program with the most users wins and
the bet today is software that runs everywhere. Perl and python
were there first. Then java and c# appeared. IMO, these languages
are terrible for interpreted programs but they have good standard
GUI libraries. If python had a good toolkit maybe java and c# wouldn't 
exist. So the issue of std toolkit shouldn't been taken lightly.

Unless somebody does something, I see us all using a web browser as an 
interface to our programs and then inventing tookits over javascript 
though...


Stelios
---------
These are the opinions of my boss and not my own.


From jimmy at retzlaff.com  Wed Nov 10 16:02:30 2004
From: jimmy at retzlaff.com (Jimmy Retzlaff)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:02:30 -0800
Subject: [ctypes-users] ANN: EasyDialogs for Windows version 1.16.0
Message-ID: <A7B5C22F20EE3C4E95744E2F03F1887F21CDA4@MAYOR.retzlaff.com>

Thomas Heller wrote:
> "Jimmy Retzlaff" <jimmy at retzlaff.com> writes:
> 
> > EasyDialogs for Windows is available at:
> >
> > http://www.averdevelopment.com/python/
> >
> > EasyDialogs for Windows is a ctypes based emulation of the
EasyDialogs
> > module included in the Python distribution for Macintosh.
> 
> Is it correct behaviour that GetArgv() raises SystemExit, when the
> cancel button is pressed?

Yes, that is how it is on the Mac. I think the idea is that if the user
presses Cancel while building the argument list then they intend to
cancel the execution of the program. The behavior (but not the
rationale) is documented at the end of the first paragraph of the
description of GetArgv at:

http://docs.python.org/mac/module-EasyDialogs.html

> Apart from that - very nice module (sorry, I have not tested it on the
> windows versions you mentioned above)!

Thanks, it wouldn't have happened without ctypes! By the way, if anyone
is interested I'll be making a short presentation on the basics of
ctypes at this week's BayPiggies meeting in the San Francisco Bay Area.
Details on the meeting are at:

http://www.baypiggies.net/

Jimmy


From nick at craig-wood.com  Mon Nov 15 03:30:11 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 08:30:11 GMT
Subject: using python on the command line with 'here-documents' and pipes
References: <slrncpf4ga.1u7.calmar@news.calmar.ws>
	<pan.2004.11.14.23.38.53.461566@jerf.org>
	<slrncpf9l7.b4m.calmar@news.calmar.ws>
Message-ID: <slrncpgnlg.rus.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

calmar <calmar at calmar.ws> wrote:
>  echo -e 'line1\nline2\nline3' | python -c '
>  import sys
>  for line in sys.stdin:
>          print line'

The fileinput module is useful, it reads from stdin or from the files
provided on the command line (sys.argv), eg

$ python -c '
import fileinput, sys
for line in fileinput.input():
    # Your code to manipulate line here
    sys.stdout.write(line)
'
This is a line
This is another line
This is a line
This is another line

(The above is (almost) equivalent to perl -pe '# Your code here' BTW
which was in itself derived from the awk usage I think.  The almost
comes in when stdin is from the terminal - you need to press CTRL-D
twice for the python version and once for the perl version)

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Nov 30 11:48:59 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:48:59 -0600
Subject: comment out more than 1 line at once?
In-Reply-To: <cohg3q$2q1b5$1@claire.desy.de>
References: <cohc71$2pqli$1@claire.desy.de>
	<mailman.6908.1101807392.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cohg3q$2q1b5$1@claire.desy.de>
Message-ID: <16812.42107.549920.104416@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Riko> I'm using emacs (with python-mode) to do most of my editing. 

C-c # is bound to py-comment-region in python-mode.

Skip


From ndbecker2 at verizon.net  Sat Nov  6 07:09:07 2004
From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal Becker)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 07:09:07 -0500
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <cmiet3$jpu$1@sea.gmane.org>

Gabriel Zachmann wrote:

> Is there any generic way to use C++ libraries from within Python.
> 

Looked at boost::python?



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Tue Nov 16 15:04:42 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:04:42 -0300
Subject: get function arguments
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7BF1@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Steven Bethard]

#- >>> def myFunc(a,b,c='default'):
#- ... 	pass
#- ... 
#- >>> myFunc.func_code.co_varnames
#- ('a', 'b', 'c')
#- 

How do you do that from *inside* the function?

Thanks,

.	Facundo
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From merman at snafu.de  Tue Nov  9 17:44:21 2004
From: merman at snafu.de (T. Kaufmann)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 23:44:21 +0100
Subject: MySQLdb installation
In-Reply-To: <-ji*zidzq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
References: <418f99db$0$175$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<418fba73$0$161$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<cmohqo$j1l$02$4@news.t-online.com>
	<418fcca7$0$165$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<-ji*zidzq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Message-ID: <419146da$0$192$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Sion Arrowsmith wrote:
> T. Kaufmann <merman at snafu.de> wrote:
> 
>>Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>>
>>>Install the package mysql-devel.
>>
>>I can't find it!?
> 
> 
> "libraries and header files" on MySQL downloads.

I found it here:

http://linux.maruhn.com/sec/python-devel.html

Thanks for help.

o-o

Thomas


From exarkun at divmod.com  Sat Nov  6 11:03:13 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 16:03:13 GMT
Subject: Python OS
In-Reply-To: <cmiqao$5s8$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20041106160313.14104.810245925.divmod.quotient.643@ohm>

On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 16:24:09 +0100, "Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote:
>Benji York wrote:
> 
> > Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> >> Hm. I'll reread them myself and see if what has been achieved in this
> >> field. But I seriously doubt that someone took a python interpreter and
> >> started writing an OS.
> > 
> > I am aware of at least one attempt.  See
> > http://cleese.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/moin.cgi and the mailing list
> > archive.  They managed to boot a specially modified VM and run simple
> > Python programs.  Unfortunately the project was abandoned about a year
> > ago.
> 
> And it backs my assertions:

  Indeed it does.  But pointing out that you cannot write an OS entirely in Python is about as interesting as pointing out that you cannot write an OS entirely in C.  Accept it.  Move on.  This doesn't mean that it wouldn't be useful to write _most_ of an OS in Python.

  For an actively developed Python OS project, see unununium.

  Jp


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 14 03:07:01 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 09:07:01 +0100
Subject: map, LC, genexp
References: <F2Ald.94494$R05.50978@attbi_s53>
Message-ID: <1gn8g3d.hujmbg1n01i85N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Bryan <belred1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
   ...
> the slowest looping mechanism in 2.4 is 20% faster than the fastest
> looping mechanism in 2.3.  if i'm wrong about this, remembered wrong or
> did something wrong, please let me know.  here are some timeit tests i did
> on my machine.  notice that map is faster in both python versions and that
> LC24/LC23 is only a 5.5% speed improvement.

It may depend on your machine and how well you're optimizing the
building of the various version.  My sweet little laptop is no match for
the general performance of your box, but relative performances are (best
one in each case):

With 2.4:

$ python -mtimeit 'for i in (str(x)for x in xrange(100)):pass'
1000 loops, best of 3: 534 usec per loop

$ python -mtimeit 'for i in [str(x)for x in xrange(100)]:pass'
1000 loops, best of 3: 526 usec per loop

$ python -mtimeit 'for i in map(str,xrange(100)):pass'
1000 loops, best of 3: 400 usec per loop

--> genexp and LC within noise, map of built-in over 20% faster

with 2.3:

$ /usr/bin/python timeit.py 'for i in map(str,xrange(100)):pass'
1000 loops, best of 3: 540 usec per loop

$ /usr/bin/python timeit.py 'for i in[str(x)for x in xrange(100)]:pass'
1000 loops, best of 3: 741 usec per loop

2.3 way slower than 2.4 for same ops, higher map gain wrt LC.


But this is for tiny loops.  Try less-tiny ones:

$ python -mtimeit 'for i in [str(x)for x in xrange(10000)]:pass'
10 loops, best of 3: 59.9 msec per loop

$ python -mtimeit 'for i in (str(x)for x in xrange(10000)):pass'
10 loops, best of 3: 52.8 msec per loop

now difference is NOT 'in the noise': it's repeatably over 12%.

$ python -mtimeit 'for i in map(str, xrange(10000)):pass'
10 loops, best of 3: 45.5 msec per loop

Still faster (with a built-in), but slowing down like the LC, due to
similar allocation issues, while the genexp scales up better.


The genexp will really shine if your loop is huge, so the saving of
memory allocation translates into huge time savings.

But if you're REALLY in a hurry, the fastest approach is another:

$ python -mtimeit -s'from itertools import imap' 'for i in imap(str,
xrange(10000)):pass'
10 loops, best of 3: 39.1 msec per loop

As you see, even for this modest loop itertools' advantage on map is
already comparable to map's on the genexp.  AND imap scales up like the
genexp -- no big memory allocation.


Ratios very similar in 2.3:

$ /usr/bin/python timeit.py -s'from itertools import imap' 'for i in
imap(str, xrange(10000)):pass'
10 loops, best of 3: 4.91e+04 usec per loop

$ /usr/bin/python timeit.py 'for i in map(str, xrange(10000)):pass'
10 loops, best of 3: 5.58e+04 usec per loop

2.4 has an easy 20% gain, but, if you're stuck with 2.3, you can still
get some 15% gain by using itertools rather than map.  Here, too, the
same scaling considerations apply.


It _is_ peculiar that the fastest solution isn't even in the subject;-).
Lesson to retain: *** itertools roolz *** !!!-)


Alex


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov 29 13:28:29 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 19:28:29 +0100
Subject: date diff calc
References: <K_-dnRIyHJPs_DbcRVn-jg@is.co.za>
Message-ID: <cofpo9$1va$05$1@news.t-online.com>

> bdl = '2004-11-25'.split('-')
> edl = '2004-11-30'.split('-')
> bd = date(int(bdl[0]),  int(bdl[1]),  int(bdl[2]))
> ed = date(int(edl[0]),  int(edl[1]),  int(edl[2]))

using time.strptime and datetime.date.fromtimestamp is surely the better
alternative, as it lets specify you the format by a string.

> print ed , '-', bd , '=', (ed-bd).days

I can't imagine what could possibly be easier than subtracting two dates -
in fact, most times one has to jump through much more hoops to achieve
these results, e.g. in java.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Nov 17 11:57:18 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:57:18 -0600
Subject: don't NaN & infinities hide FP errors
In-Reply-To: <419B5965.1010801@geochemsource.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0411170130.31d247@posting.google.com>
	<cnf963$ioc$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<1f7befae041117054954a8e966@mail.gmail.com>
	<419B5965.1010801@geochemsource.com>
Message-ID: <20041117165717.GA25465@unpythonic.net>

All you need to do is to contribute under the Python license, and
promise to maintain, a clearly high-quality, portable FP library and
associated test suite that will work on current and future platforms
(across instruction sets, CPU architectures, operating systems, and C
compilers), not produce a measurable slowdown in Python code compared to
platform doubles, and will never be worse (less accurate) than simply
using the platform's own maths.

Oh, and it would be bes if your code already has a proven track
record before you contribute it to Python.

Banging out a few inline assembler blocks for Pentium/gcc or
Pentium/MSVC++ is just not enough.

Jeff
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From benji at benjiyork.com  Thu Nov  4 21:14:51 2004
From: benji at benjiyork.com (Benji York)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 20:14:51 -0600
Subject: pep 336: Make None Callable
In-Reply-To: <f03f4fdf04110407394b24e7cd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>
	<f03f4fdf04110407394b24e7cd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <418AE21B.6040905@benjiyork.com>

Chris Cioffi wrote:
> Even when we type it: None.  it's the only builtin that is
> capitalized.  

Hmm.

>>> print '\n'.join([name for name in dir(__builtins__) if name[0].isupper()])
ArithmeticError
AssertionError
AttributeError
DeprecationWarning
EOFError
Ellipsis
EnvironmentError
Exception
False
FloatingPointError
FutureWarning
IOError
ImportError
IndentationError
IndexError
KeyError
KeyboardInterrupt
LookupError
MemoryError
NameError
None
NotImplemented
NotImplementedError
OSError
OverflowError
OverflowWarning
PendingDeprecationWarning
ReferenceError
RuntimeError
RuntimeWarning
StandardError
StopIteration
SyntaxError
SyntaxWarning
SystemError
SystemExit
TabError
True
TypeError
UnboundLocalError
UnicodeDecodeError
UnicodeEncodeError
UnicodeError
UnicodeTranslateError
UserWarning
ValueError
Warning
WindowsError
ZeroDivisionError
-- 
Benji York
benji at benjiyork.com



From anthony at interlink.com.au  Fri Nov 19 02:16:45 2004
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:16:45 +1100
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.4, release candidate 1
Message-ID: <200411191816.52309.anthony@interlink.com.au>

On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I'm
happy to announce the first release candidate of Python 2.4.

Python 2.4c1 is a release candidate - we'd greatly appreciate it if
you could download it, kick the tires and let us know of any problems
you find, but it is probably not suitable for production usage. At
this point, we're particularly interested in build bugs. If you could
grab the source archive, build it and then run the test suite, we'd
appreciate it.

    http://www.python.org/2.4

Notable changes in rc1 include a handful of bug fixes, including a
thread shutdown race bug. See either the highlights, the What's New in
Python 2.4, or the detailed NEWS file -- all available from the Python
2.4 webpage.

This is the first release candidate of Python 2.4. Python 2.4 is now
close to release - there should be few or no new features, merely bug
fixes. Assuming no problems, we're looking at a final release around the
end of November (if there are problems, there will be another release
candidate).

Please log any problems you have with this release in the SourceForge
bug tracker (noting that you're using 2.4c1):

    http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?group_id=5470

Enjoy the new release,
Anthony

Anthony Baxter
anthony at python.org
Python Release Manager
(on behalf of the entire python-dev team)
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From meng.yan at gmail.com  Mon Nov 22 22:31:00 2004
From: meng.yan at gmail.com (Mike Meng)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 19:31:00 -0800
Subject: Is there a consensus on how to check a polymorphic instance?
Message-ID: <1101180660.465640.200670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

hi all,
I'm a newbie Python programmer with a C++ brain inside. I have a
lightweight framework in which I design a base class and expect user to
extend. In other part of the framework, I heavily use the instance of
this base class (or its children class). How can I ensure the instance
IS-A base  class instance, since Python is a fully dynamic typing
language?

I searched and found several different ways to do this:

1. In `Text Processing in Python', David Mertz suggests using `hasattr'
to check abilities instead of type checking.

2. In ActiveState's Python Cookbook site, Alex Martelli suggested a
safe and accurate `look before you leap' technique on
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52291

3. In this group, some others suggest using isinstance() builtin
function to check instance.

Now my questions:
1. Is my design speaks native Pythonish? Such design is native in C++
and Java OO style, but I'm not sure about this in Python.

2. As I state in title, is there a consensus on how to check a
polymorphic instance? I find all the three ways above is a little bit
tedious compared with C++ and Java, in which compile-time type checking
ensures the interface protocol, any better ideas in Python?
Any comments will be appreciated.



From arkham at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 20:40:31 2004
From: arkham at gmail.com (Rob Snyder)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 01:40:31 GMT
Subject: Enumerating Classes in Modules
References: <jKQmd.16312$Vk6.11976@twister.nyc.rr.com>
	<10pnu0hrq7r9tf9@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <j4Tmd.17277$Vk6.1450@twister.nyc.rr.com>

Jeff Shannon wrote:

> Rob Snyder wrote:
> 
>>Greetings -
>>
>>I have a situation where I need to be able to have a Python function that
>>will take all the modules in a given directory and find all the classes
>>defined in these modules by name. Ultimately, I would need to loop through
>>all of these, instantiating each of the classes in turn and calling a
>>pre-known method of each.
>>
>>Finding the name of each module is not a problem, but loading the classes
>>out the module once I know the name is where I'm lost.
>>  
>>
> 
> Hm.  Any reason to not simply import the module (using the __import__()
> function), going through all names in that module's namespace, and
> attempting to call the method on them?  (Catching AttributeErrors as
> necessary, of course.)
> 
> Something like this (untested, unresearched, and totally off the top of
> my head):
> 
> for modname in nameslist:
>     plugins[modname] = __import__(modname)
>     # ....
>     for item in dir(plugins[modname]):
>         try:
>             item.standard_method()
>         except AttributeError:
>             pass
> 
> If you need something a bit more specific, maybe you could require all
> plugin classes to be derived from a common subclass, and before calling
> the standard_method() you could check issubclass(item, plugin_base)...
> 
> Jeff Shannon
> Technician/Programmer
> Credit International

Any reason no to? Not other then I couldn't figure it out on my own. :) 

Thanks so much for your help, this will do the trick nicely.

Rob Snyder


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Nov 18 12:37:19 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:37:19 -0800
Subject: SPARK v.s. PLY
In-Reply-To: <ed89f8f2.0411180648.49ac6763@posting.google.com>
References: <ed89f8f2.0411180648.49ac6763@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041118092719.F9C7.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


anhtt at hotmail.com (Tran Tuan Anh) wrote:
> 
> Hi all, 
> 
> I am searching for a suitable parsing tool to parse C++ for a research
> project.
> Actually I am parsing SystemC, it is a C++ lib with some macros, hence
> I need to modify the grammar a little bit to handle some new keywords.
> 
> I need to construct the Control Flow Graph and play around with it a
> bit.
> So far, I have found SPARK and PLY that seem to be suitable to my
> task. Other packages are either not so well established or not so well
> tested and documented. (Please correct me if I am wrong).
> 
> If you know the parsing stuff well, could you briefly tell me the
> pros. and cons. of those packages? (or some others you find good too)


I've recently found myself in love with DParser.  I had planned on
writing my own parser for a particular little query language until I
happened upon it, and within 15 minutes, had a parser that was exactly
what I wanted (variable lengthed list support, recursive rules, etc.).

I've not really used SPARC, TPG or PLY, so can't comment on them.

 - Josiah



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Nov  6 14:49:48 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 14:49:48 -0500
Subject: Has anyone released a Python "mock filesystem" for automated
 testing?
In-Reply-To: <slrncopbtn.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
References: <OImdnYXxIItbfhfcRVn-iA@powergate.ca>
	<x7is8ksrnh.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<slrncopbtn.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
Message-ID: <cmj9s0$ev8$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> The mock file system should probably have a really bizarre os.sep, to
> provoke code which assumes '/'.

Nice idea!  One could think of a variety of ways to use such
a thing to help improve "cross-platform-ness".


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Tue Nov  9 18:15:40 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 15:15:40 -0800
Subject: Packing list elements into tuples
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6188.1100039293.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cmrcqq$rv4$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.6188.1100039293.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <419162a8$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

I kind of like:
     [dict(first=lst[k], second=lst[k+1], third=lst[k+2])
        for k in range(0, len(lst), 3)]

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Nov 14 17:52:30 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 17:52:30 -0500
Subject: Pyro rocks (was Re: Is there something like tcl "send" command in
 Python)
In-Reply-To: <4196b4ba$0$37789$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <aa24ae0d.0411131646.6e57355f@posting.google.com>
	<4196b4ba$0$37789$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <cn8nmc$72b$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Irmen de Jong wrote:
> Peter Gordon wrote:
>> Is there somethin like tcl "send" command in Python. I would like to
>> be able to exucate calls in a python program on one machine from
>> another machine.
> 
> After you added some infrastructure such as Pyro
> (http://pyro.sourceforge.net), you can essentially
> invoke methods on objects on arbitrary machines.

I just want to put in a brief word praising the little
bit of Pyro that I've seen.

For a year or two now I've heard folks (often Irmen,
sometimes others ;-), mention Pyro when the question of
Python IPC comes up.  Each time I've made a mental note
to check it out when the need arises, but surprisingly
the need didn't arise before recently.

I finally had a small task that required something like
Pyro, so I installed it and tried it out.  The example
worked perfectly, so I set to work seeing how much trouble
it would be to get it working without using the NameServer
feature.  I believe it took all of ten minutes or so
and my program was up and running, split across two
processes, without much ado.

This is the second piece of Irmen's work that I've looked
at and I have to say, the man's a genius. :-)  As the
subject says, Pyro rocks.

-Peter


From gustavo.cordova at q-voz.com  Mon Nov 29 17:18:37 2004
From: gustavo.cordova at q-voz.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gustavo_C=F3rdova_Avila?=)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:18:37 -0600
Subject: Anybody using Arch?
Message-ID: <41ABA03D.30202@q-voz.com>

Does anybody have an Arch archive with the current python source I could 
slurp it from?

Thanks in advance :-)
-- 
Gustavo C?rdova Avila <gustavo.cordova at q-voz.com> 
<mailto:gustavo.cordova at q-voz.com>
*Tel:* +52 (81) 8130-1919 ext. 127
Integraciones del Norte, S.A. de C.V.
Padua #6047, Colonia Sat?lite Acueducto
Monterrey, Nuevo Le?n, M?xico.
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From phleum_nospam at chello.se  Sat Nov 27 11:31:37 2004
From: phleum_nospam at chello.se (Carl)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:31:37 +0100
Subject: How do you execute external programs from Python?
References: <iGppd.2045$3N5.117@amstwist00>
Message-ID: <e_1qd.2176$3N5.2001@amstwist00>

Carl wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have this little code snippet that I use for recording audio streams. My
> problem is that I want to schedule my recordings with crontab. This does
> not work, however. I cannot figure out why; my code works fine when run
> manually from the command prompt.
> 
> On final thing: What would be the best way to turn off the recording?
> 
> Can someone help me?
> 
> Carl
> 
> 
> Here is my code:
> 
> import time
> import os
> import shutil
> 
> URL = "http://www.jazzandblues.org/listen/links/kkjz1.ram"
> 
> def RecordURL(what = "KKJZ"):
>     str_mplayer = "mplayer -playlist " + URL
>     str_mplayer += " -ao pcm -aofile "
>     str_mplayer += what + ".wav" + " -vc dummy -vo null"
>     os.system(str_mplayer)
> 
> def CreateOGG(what = "KKJZ"):
>     ogg_file = what + ".ogg"
>     str_oggenc = "oggenc " + what + ".wav"
>     os.system(str_oggenc)
> 
> def CreateMP3(what = "KKJZ"):
>     mp3_file = what + ".mp3"
>     str_lame = "lame " + what + ".wav " + mp3_file
>     os.system(str_lame)
> 
> def DeleteWAV(what = "KKJZ"):
>     wav_file = what + ".wav"
>     str_rm = "rm " + wav_file
>     os.system(str_rm)
> 
> def DateTag(what = "KKJZ"):
>     local_time = time.asctime(time.localtime())
>     for local_file in [ what + ".ogg", what + ".mp3" ]:
>         length = len(local_file)
>         local_file_copy = local_file[: length - 4] + "_" + local_time +
>         "."
> + local_file[length - 3 :]
>         shutil.copy(local_file, local_file_copy)
>             
> RecordURL()
> ## CreateOGG()
> ## CreateMP3()
> ## DeleteWAV()
> ## DateTag()
> 
> Here is my crontab entry:
> 
> 30 * * * * python -c "import os; os.chdir('/home/alpha/mymusic/P2/Jazz/');
> import KKJZ"

Thanks guys!

It was an environmental problem. It works now; the only thing I still
haven't solved is how to kill the spawned process after say an hour. Any
clues?

Carl



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Nov 19 07:32:31 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 09:32:31 -0300
Subject: Exponential Notation and integers
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7C19@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Timothy Fitz]

#- Why are all numberical literals in exponential notation floats? To me
#- it is counter-intuitive for 1e3 to behave so fundamentally different
#- from 1000.

Use Decimal. Decimal(1000) and Decimal("1e3") will behave equally.


#- >>> long(1e100)
#- 1000000000000000015902891109759918046836080856394528138978132
#- 7557747838772170381060813469985856815104L
#- >>> 1e20 == 10 ** 20 + 8192
#- True
#- >>> long(1e23) == 10 ** 23
#- False

>>> from decimal import *
>>> getcontext().prec = 110
>>> Decimal("1e100")
Decimal("1E+100")
>>> Decimal("1e100") + 1
Decimal("1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000001")
>>> Decimal("1e100") == 10 ** 100
True

.	Facundo
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From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Sun Nov 21 01:36:30 2004
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 06:36:30 GMT
Subject: Backporting Python 2.4 modules
References: <mailman.6638.1100923028.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <OHWnd.4613$sX5.1745@trndny05>

[Ian Bicking]
> Wouldn't it be cool if someone took all the enhanced and new modules in
> Python 2.3 and 2.4, and backported them to Python 2.2?

FWIW,
sets.py runs under 2.2,
the itertools docs include code equivalents that run on 2.2,
the ASPN site has a 2.2 version of the new collections.deque object,
the new heapq functions, nsmallest and nlargest, will run on 2.2,
and the new decimal module will run on 2.3.

If you want to package these, that would be nice.

OTOH, upgrading to a more modern python has its advantages too.  The newer
Pythons have fewer bugs, better memory usage, better docs, and improved
performance.


Raymond Hettinger




From irond_will at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 30 14:18:40 2004
From: irond_will at yahoo.com (irond_will)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 11:18:40 -0800
Subject: PIL interpolation access
Message-ID: <9654e9e8.0411301118.15ce43ee@posting.google.com>

Does anyone know how I might directly access PIL's bicubic
interpolator?  I have an arbitrary array of points for which I need to
find interpolated color values.  Unfortunately, I have no clue how to
acceess the bicubic filter in the PIL module, and my NumArray solution
is very slow and clunky.

I've hacked together a very very very slow solution that involves the
following steps:

1) import Image
2) translate Image to NumArray object (fairly slow)
3) find interpolated values for pixel array (breathtakingly slow)
4) translate interpolated color values (NumArray) into Image structure
(way too slow)

If anyone knows any way to perform items 2,3 or 4 with any facility,
please please please respond.  The code I have now is extremely
clunky, largely due to my lack of facility with Python, Numarray and
PIL.  Some is below:

I know I could speed up the algorithm by being smarter with vectors. 
I don't really want to mess with this, though, if there's already a
better extant solution.

Thanks,

-Wm.

def bicub_interp(r,X):
    from numarray import *
    import Image
    #r is the 2d array point in X space; this should be generalized to
take in an array of size [2,xspan,yspan]
    #X is the graphic array.  Its specifications are:
    # dim 1 = x axis
    # dim 2 = y axis
    # dim 3 = [RGB] axis
    # Each pixel of the X array is assumed to exist at the discrete
intersection of integer count.
    # For instance, the bottom left point is X[0,0,:]

    c_r_x = r.shape[1]
    c_r_y = r.shape[2]
    c_X_x = X.shape[0]
    c_X_y = X.shape[1]
    Y = zeros((c_r_x, c_r_y, 3))
    for n_x in range(c_r_x):
        for n_y in range(c_r_y):
            
            r_x = r[0,n_x,n_y]
            r_y = r[1,n_x,n_y]
            r_i = int(r_x)
            r_j = int(r_y)
            r_dx = r_x - r_i
            r_dy = r_y - r_y
            
            if ( (0 < r_i < (c_X_x-2)) & (0 < r_j < (c_X_y-2)) ):
                for n_m in range(-1,3):
                    for n_n in range(-1,3):
                        Y[n_x,n_y,:] += (X[r_i,r_j,:]
                                         * Rfunc(n_m - r_dx)
                                         * Rfunc(r_dy - n_n))
    return Y

def Rfunc(X):
    ##For use in bicub_interp()
    R = (1.0/6.0)*(1.0 * ((ramp(X+2.0))**3) -
                   4.0 * ((ramp(X+1.0))**3) +
                   6.0 * ((ramp(X    ))**3) -
                   4.0 * ((ramp(X-1.0))**3))
    return R

def ramp(X):
    if (X<0): X = 0.0
    return X

def image_to_array(im):

    #This function returns an array of RGB pixel values
    #The dimensions correspond as follows:
    #Dim 1 = column or x value
    #Dim 2 = row or y value
    #Dim 3 = color value or [R,G,B] for [0, 1, 2]

    #X.transpose operations can change the order of the axes if
desired.
    
    X = vect_math.array_flip(transpose(reshape(array(im.getdata()),(im.size[1],im.size[0],3)),(1,0,2)),1)
    
    return X

def array_to_image(X):
    #SLOW method of mapping array of spects defined in image_to_array
into
    #an image structure

    #There is probably a faster way using im.putdata(), but I can't
figure out how to get the array structure
    #oriented in such a fashion as to perform a direct put.

    im = Image.new('RGB',(X.shape[0], X.shape[1]))
    X=vect_math.array_flip(X,1)
    for x in range(0,X.shape[0]):
        for y in range(0,X.shape[1]):
            im.putpixel((x,y),tuple(X[x,y,:]))
    return im


From sfeil at io.com  Mon Nov 29 01:17:43 2004
From: sfeil at io.com (Steven Feil)
Date: 28 Nov 2004 22:17:43 -0800
Subject: Building web graphics with Python
Message-ID: <bee4de44.0411282217.650d0e73@posting.google.com>

I am wondering if there is a light weight Python library for producing
web graphics on-the-fly. There is a C-language library called gd that
can be used in a CGI program to produce gif images.  The Library can
be used to produce graphics images that are dynamically generated.  I
was wondering if there is something similar for Python.


From donald.welch at hp.com  Thu Nov 18 16:24:47 2004
From: donald.welch at hp.com (djw)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:24:47 -0800
Subject: mkstemp on pre-2.3 Python
Message-ID: <419d15b2@usenet01.boi.hp.com>

Hi, c.l.p'ers-

I working on some code that creates a temporary file on Linux. I found some
code that the BDFL posted previously on the newsgroup and adapted it for my
use. I can't get the "pre-2.3" code to work.


try:
    make_temp_file = tempfile.mkstemp # 2.3+
except AttributeError: 
    def make_temp_file( suffix='', prefix='', dir='', text=False ): #pre-2.3
        path = tempfile.mktemp( suffix ) 
        fd = os.open( path, os.O_WRONLY|os.O_CREAT|os.O_EXCL, 0700 )
        os.unlink( path )
        return ( os.fdopen( fd, 'w+b' ), path ) 



Here's the error:

File "utils.py", line 583, in make_temp_file
    return ( os.fdopen( fd, 'w+b' ), path )
OSError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument

Anybody have any ideas on what I am doing wrong?

Thanks,

Don



From leipoldw at ace-net.com  Sun Nov 21 14:45:08 2004
From: leipoldw at ace-net.com (Walter S. Leipold)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 14:45:08 -0500
Subject: Seek HTML cleanup utilities
Message-ID: <E5F271CA3BECD511A5DB0040F60C8C890994CC@bdcde0.ace-net.com>

jon.roland at constitution.org writes:
> 6. Changing of certain tags:
>     a. <em> to <i>.
>     b. <strong> to <b>.

(Off-topic, but...) You're replacing semantic markup with font-style markup?
That makes your pages less accessible for folks who use assistive
technologies (like screen readers) to browse the Web.

-- Walt



From robin at SPAMREMOVEjessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Nov 27 08:42:32 2004
From: robin at SPAMREMOVEjessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:42:32 +0000
Subject: C API PyErr_Clear vs PyObject_HasAttrString
Message-ID: <41A88448.4010501@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

I'm trying to understand why this code causes a seg fault second time 
through; the code is part of a setattr and is testing if the value is an 
integer or has red, green and blue attributes. This code later goes on 
to raise a ValueError if  that's not the case.

if((i = PyArg_Parse(value,"i",&cv))){
	c->value = cv;
	c->valid = 1;
	return 1;
	}

rgb = PyObject_HasAttrString(value,"red")
	&& PyObject_HasAttrString(value,"green")
	&& PyObject_HasAttrString(value,"blue");
PyErr_Clear();


.......
PyErr_SetString(PyExc_ValueError, "bad color value");


Both calls should fail and raise ValueError, but the second call causes 
a seg fault in Python 2.3.4 (not in 2.2 and earlier).

In 2.3.4 I found that moving the PyErr_Clear() before the calculation of 
rgb fixes the problem.

I assume the problem is that something in the rgb calculation is failing 
because the python error flag is set. Is that a bug in the 
implementation of PyObject_HasAttrString or is it my fault for not 
knowing which API calls need a cleared error flag?
-- 
Robin Becker


From mike at hobbshouse.org  Thu Nov  4 23:20:03 2004
From: mike at hobbshouse.org (Michael Hobbs)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 04:20:03 -0000
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5890.1099529745.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmpyz8.11h86a71kjmdttN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5916.1099587353.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdntd$788$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5920.1099589545.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdrhf$d2c$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5925.1099594558.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10ol7sqdr84k619@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.5935.1099604609.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10olvrjnp5ju74d@corp.supernews.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
> The reason for this is that at any given time in OCaml, the sequence of bits is
> only interpretable as *one* of the two types, never both.  If you have a good
> example of using a union (in C probably, since OCaml wouldn't let you do this I
> don't think) where you want to treat a given sequence of bytes as both types *at
> once*, that would be great!

I've come up with the perfect example for you. However, it is from
the days when memory was scarce and programmers were allowed to use
any programming language they wanted, so long as it was assembly.

To conserve as much memory as possible, some programmers would use
machine code that was loaded into memory as their integer constants.
Here is an excerpt from The Story of Mel:
(http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/story-of-mel.html)

   Since Mel knew the numerical value
   of every operation code,
   and assigned his own drum addresses,
   every instruction he wrote could also be considered
   a numerical constant.
   He could pick up an earlier "add" instruction, say,
   and multiply by it,
   if it had the right numeric value.
   His code was not easy for someone else to modify.



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov 22 15:45:46 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:45:46 -0500
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <mailman.5272.1098381729.5135.python-list@python.org><1gm17og.ctwoqv17vkctxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com><419EEEAA.D3C1046F@yahoo.com><mailman.6642.1100936758.5135.python-list@python.org><87actcrhlo.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk><mailman.6647.1100967514.5135.python-list@python.org><87llcvssfy.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>
	<g5a3q057grtlbbt8je1pevvchofuiud9n8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <cntj5f$sru$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Richie Hindle" <richie at entrian.com> wrote in message 
news:g5a3q057grtlbbt8je1pevvchofuiud9n8 at 4ax.com...
>
> [Isaac]
>> [...] my post didn't make
>> sense even to myself.  So I cancel that post a minute after making it,
>> although apparently my cancel posting didn't go as far as my response.
>
> The comp.lang.python newsgroup is mirrored by the python-list at python.org
> mailing list, so canceling a message often won't work for the mailing 
> list
> subscribers.  Your original message will already have been sent out by
> email by the time your cancel message gets through.

and python-list, along with 1000s of other technical mailing lists, is 
mirrored as a news.gname.org newsgroup -- gmane.comp.python.

I cancel about half the messages I start to write -- by hitting delete 
instead of send ;-0.

Terry J. Reedy





From mrovner at propel.com  Tue Nov  2 13:55:39 2004
From: mrovner at propel.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 10:55:39 -0800
Subject: sh: test: argument expected
In-Reply-To: <200411021843.iA2IhDgg004694@relay.uva.es>
References: <200411021843.iA2IhDgg004694@relay.uva.es>
Message-ID: <cm8l5j$dkj$1@sea.gmane.org>

Iv?n Cabria wrote:

> I am a new user of python. I ran 
> a python script and I got the 
> following message:
> 
> sh: test: argument expected
> 
> I found that this error came from a 
> line in the script:
> energy = atoms.GetPotentialEnergy()

Aparently your python program calls shell script. Without seeing the 
python program it's hard to tell any more.

  > However, I was using the bash shell in the computer

Try (or confirm) that your login script (that you get on the first 
prompt after log in) is bash, not sh. To do that you may say:

     grep your-login-name-here /etc/passwd

and see that line you get ends with :/bin/bash

HTH,
Mike



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Nov 17 12:36:45 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:36:45 -0600
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining
	thenumber of output arguments)
References: <mailman.6468.1100667418.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10pn31f2jji3t7c@news.supernews.com>

Since I seem to have missed the start of this thread,
I'm going to reply at a higher level...

"Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote in message 
news:mailman.6468.1100667418.5135.python-list at python.org...
Greg Ewing wrote:
> Jeremy Bowers wrote:
> > Generally, returning a tuple is either a sign that your return value
> > should be wrapped up in a class, or the function is doing too much.

Well, there's a community of opinion in the stricter
parts of the OO world that _all_ return values should
be wrapped up in a class; you should never return
fundamental values (except possibly True and False.)

I know for myself that even if I intend to consume
multiple values immediately, the operation of unpacking
a tuple or remembering the index of the particular operand
I want is rather error-prone.

Another consideration is that there's a semantic
gap between a tuple and an object: while you can
regard a tuple as a data object, as soon as you want
to expand it to have some behavior, you've got to
make lots of changes everywhere that tuple is
used, or else put in lots of mechanism to make the
new object look like a tuple to the old users.

All of that is balanced, of course, by having to
create an object definition with a bunch of accessors.

I know that if I was working on a significant
project for someone else, I'd strongly consider
return objects everywhere, if only for the
documentation effect.

John Roth



From trentm at ActiveState.com  Fri Nov  5 19:13:37 2004
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 16:13:37 -0800
Subject: ANN: ActivePython 2.4b2 is available
Message-ID: <418C1731.20101@activestate.com>

We are pleased to announce that ActivePython 2.4b2 is now available
from:

     http://www.ActiveState.com/Products/ActivePython

This is a beta release matching the recently tagged core Python 2.4b2.
Builds for Windows, Linux and Solaris are available.

We would welcome any and all feedback to:
     ActivePython-feedback at ActiveState.com
Please file bugs against ActivePython at:
     http://bugs.ActiveState.com/ActivePython


What is ActivePython?
---------------------

ActivePython is ActiveState's quality-assured binary build of Python.
Builds for Windows, Linux and Solaris and made freely available.

In addition to the Python core, ActivePython includes commonly used
external modules such as expat for XML processing, zlib and bzip2 for
data compression, the bsddb database library, Tcl/Tk 8.4.4 (with Tix);
the PyWin32 suite of Windows tools developed by Mark Hammond, including
the Pythonwin IDE, bindings to the Win32 API and Windows COM; and more.

ActivePython also includes a wealth of Python documentation, including:
- the core Python docs;
- Andrew Kuchling's "What's New in Python" series;
- the Non-Programmer's Tutorial for Python;
- Mark Pilgrim's excellent "Dive into Python"; and
- a snapshot of the Python FAQs, HOWTOs and PEPs.

Thanks, and enjoy!

Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
trentm at activestate.com



From osuchw at ecn.ab.ca  Fri Nov 12 19:51:47 2004
From: osuchw at ecn.ab.ca (Waldemar Osuch)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 00:51:47 GMT
Subject: PyTables:Installing hdf5
In-Reply-To: <37ee60c8.0411120648.3a2ad4c6@posting.google.com>
References: <37ee60c8.0411120648.3a2ad4c6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <DUcld.209693$%k.165434@pd7tw2no>

Ajith Prasad wrote:
> I am trying to install the WinXP version of PyTables which requires
> hdf5 (from http://hdf.ncsa.uiuc.edu/HDF5/) as a pre-requisite.
> However, I am at a loss as to how to install hdf5 - I have downloaded
> the zipped version of hdf5 and unzipped it using WinZip but get a mass
> of .exe and other files and have no clue as to how to proceed further.
> Thanks in advance for any help.

You are after *.dll files only:
After unzipping:
ftp://ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu/HDF/HDF5/hdf5-1.6.3/patches/bin/WinXP-patch.tar.gz
find hdf5.dll and copy it to system32 directory.
Do the same with this files:
ftp://ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu/HDF/szip/bin/windows/szip-msvc++/szipbin/XP_vs6.0/dll/szlibdll.dll
ftp://ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu/HDF/gzip/bin/windows/zlib114/dll/zlib.dll

Run the tests from PyTables to confirm that they pass with this versions 
of *.dll

Waldemar.


From esj at harvee.org  Wed Nov  3 07:05:15 2004
From: esj at harvee.org (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 07:05:15 -0500
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
In-Reply-To: <slrncohaph.6mt.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>	<du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>	<4187b7a1$0$2383$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>	<hu0l52-ml1.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>	<41880b1a$0$19736$626a14ce@news.free.fr>	<mailman.5848.1099437299.5135.python-list@python.org>	<87vfcnr76l.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>	<x7hdo7v25e.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<slrncohaph.6mt.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <cmahev$if7$1@sea.gmane.org>

Nick Craig-Wood wrote:
> Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
> 
>> Actually, what people on systems with proper package management want
>> is packages that pull stuff from CPAN and install them as
>> packages.
> 
> 
> Absolutely!
> 
> For instance with Debian and Perl, dh-make-perl will turn a perl
> module (tar.gz or straight from CPAN) into a .deb which you then
> managage as normal.  When using Debian I never use CPAN and always
> dh-make-perl because I'd much rather have the package managed via
> dpkg/apt-get.
> 
> That said I haven't found many perl modules that I wanted that weren't
> already packaged for Debian.  The same with python modules too.
> 
> 
>> Doing this right is hard, because CPAN makes assumptions
>> about where things are liable to be installed.
> 
> 
> No idea how dh-make-perl works.  It does though!
> 
> 
>> For Python, what we want are packages that use distutils to install
>> them as packages. Doing this right is trivial, because distutils
>> gets all the relevant information from the environment.
> 
> 
> distutils already knows how to make .rpm files.
> 
> Eg choosing a package at the top of PyPI :-
> 
>     # Download
>     wget 'http://ftp.livinglogic.de/xist/ll-xist-2.6.1.tar.gz'
>     # Unpack
>     tar zxvf ll-xist-2.6.1.tar.gz 
>     cd ll-xist-2.6.1
>     # Make rpm
>     python setup.py bdist_rpm
>     # Make deb
>     cd dist/
>     fakeroot alien ll-xist-2.6.1-1.i386.rpm ll-xist-2.6.1-1.i386.deb
>     # Install with package manager
>     sudo dpkg -i ll-xist_2.6.1-2_i386.deb
> 
> This hasn't worked with every package I've tried it with though!
> 
> ...
> 
> To make PyPI into a CPAN replacement it needs to
> 1) make all the submitters use distutils, and automatically test the packaging
> 2) host the source tar balls
> 3) have a system of mirrors and provide this list for download
> 4) provide dependency information (maybe this should be in the distutils
>    information in the package)
> 5) Provide the list of packages, descriptions, and dependencies for
>    download
> 6) Some sort of review system (maintainers, peer review, rating etc)
>    for each package for quality assurance
> 
> Given all that the an automatically download package x + dependencies
> program would be easy.

I have provided a some of this functionality in raging dormouse. 
http://harvee.org/stamper/raging_dormouse/

can download from the sourceforge "click a link" maze or a regular web 
site.
Verifies checksum of package.
Can handle list of download sites to try (could be expanded to mirror 
list)

the build script in raging_dormouse is fairly application-specific.  It 
wouldn't be hard to redraft it as a configuration file driven process 
while rewriting it in Python vs. its current Bash incarnation.

you're welcome to it if you find useful.

---eric



From james at frontlogic.com  Wed Nov 10 12:07:52 2004
From: james at frontlogic.com (James Sapara)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:07:52 GMT
Subject: Python for Reverse Engineering
In-Reply-To: <cmmihf$7af$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
References: <cmhdi4$7vi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu><418c50ad$1_3@omega.dimensional.com>
	<418C54E9.2000409@vt.edu>
	<mailman.6042.1099806403.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmlhv8$ajc$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cmlj6b$7j9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <cmmihf$7af$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <IVrkd.177971$%k.126855@pd7tw2no>

Well for the fun of it I'm gonna post 100 strings that are probably like 
the strings referred to earlier. I'll answer a limited set of questions 
about the keys if you want, but for the most part they are a set of 100 
unqiue keys, with two variable inputs and a few static inputs.

#0 5V6XB-TV6N6-5H7J3-WWTWQ-6H74B
#1 CBPPC-LTJ5X-1S8ZS-5LVBZ-YRFVW
#2 QJCT6-VXYLT-2S9QZ-SQ02G-MJD9S
#3 SF46P-67SK3-6BWFD-BQ9Y0-XJ4J2
#4 ZR4VZ-BS499-TPMDT-Y2MBF-LN2VL
#5 YKR4K-ZNJ41-W2N2D-0G2FL-ZZSFK
#6 4ZBVQ-388NT-H7742-MM7N8-NYRSM
#7 468HK-3DX11-H13CD-MVPQL-N9G5K
#8 0W853-1V66Q-HPMHK-6H105-45LX1
#9 0XSRZ-1XW7N-H3LLK-620JR-4ND0J
#10 JF3XN-C7SCR-QBP0G-VQPJ2-0JG0G
#11 4BKKK-TZW8T-ZV713-80QB6-J8NV7
#12 R5W5D-V1YV8-83DRQ-DXTPX-9P7ZH
#13 C5S1Z-NJQMS-89JP0-45LVP-R7WY4
#14 CS3VY-L4SY9-1MPNM-50P0T-Y8GXX
#15 ZY7JC-P8KRK-K1511-80RZN-J8VQY
#16 KQ5D3-2F4P2-DRT19-347KH-K1R6Z
#17 KZ0ZH-QXC2Z-NH4WS-S9KDD-M0P7D
#18 5LLXY-G0GNY-F0GJW-KD1WH-8LL4Z
#19 5K7C3-G9VBQ-FBP3K-K43M5-81ZL1
#20 4TX4X-TJ8H6-Z5QTL-8F8RR-JSYCJ
#21 47LHR-TH59K-Z2Y8C-8XPL0-JPGD2
#22 DDK4B-YWD46-ZD123-3SGFQ-KX3FB
#23 4T8D6-346BS-HTM9C-MM17Z-NYL8W
#24 YTK41-ZH3H0-WKJTP-0Y3R9-ZWZCT
#25 JRH3Q-CF1HG-QYXMB-VRX4Y-0QTPP
#26 RL645-V06HF-807TF-DDTR1-9L7C8
#27 K66DH-Q3HPB-NJR1J-SH5KQ-M5C6B
#28 B6X7T-7RNKW-3S2MW-752K2-B7S6G
#29 CP30J-Y2SQB-STPBQ-H6PPB-WFGZ0
#30 4GPG5-TJGT4-Z11WX-8PWQP-JBM54
#31 K5Y7N-QD0K3-NV0M6-S70KD-MMD6D
#32 S0J7B-6MDXK-65VCV-BKVW1-XKF48
#33 DYGQK-YK1WP-ZKQNN-3C9L8-KD4DM
#34 5D6F1-G7VPC-F4H7F-K3H5M-8V9WR
#35 YQVX4-Z2YCF-W0607-0T6JF-Z3K0L
#36 6MHYP-50DQG-36NY4-T07GB-T8RM0
#37 C9W27-N2SJ3-8HB1P-4VD0F-R9QXL
#38 S0CXD-6MZ08-65X8Q-BKH6X-XK92H
#39 J5KC0-Q3HJP-GBWSC-5WXJV-YHT03
#40 JPRCN-QK7QP-G04G7-5GQF3-YZNFN
#41 C07RC-NGS0W-83G95-4444H-R15PZ
#42 4MJT3-3C192-HY369-MBJQH-N6H5Z
#43 LSVN2-2SYJC-LW6JM-QP617-7BK3F
#44 J100C-CBQQX-QVWBS-VTWPZ-03MZW
#45 T8PLF-XGTG8-WNSXX-L16VJ-GGKY5
#46 T9T3Y-X5YS9-WB04M-L9LHT-G0WTX
#47 J4VMP-Q79GS-GLY38-56JG5-YFHM1
#48 YG31S-BLSFJ-M8P0Y-BNPY4-X4GJV
#49 J45D0-C14BN-QXT9R-V977C-00R86
#50 JHXZ6-QF21M-GD189-5VCXK-Y9JBC
#51 KST2Q-QHL4T-NC8P2-SB868-M6Y2M
#52 4W3MS-G6ST5-7FPV6-YTPST-L3GKX
#53 SNWGZ-KC91N-Y445K-NY43R-VW5HJ
#54 Y8HWH-B310B-MXX2J-BQXLQ-XJTDB
#55 09H9B-1GDX6-HVNR3-6N73Q-44RHB
#56 6JRBR-59J85-34NP0-TJ216-TCS37
#57 S3B01-KP820-YZ72P-NC709-VDRXT
#58 L5VSF-21LLM-L3GJN-QXWGV-7PMM3
#59 5SFHJ-GHP1B-FCSCQ-KBCQB-86J50
#60 C7WG1-N9D6C-8DZ7F-40LJM-R8W0R
#61 JM04J-QSY3J-GX5GD-5M8Y7-YYYJF
#62 S7XLQ-K39TG-YQBNB-N3R5Y-VVVWP
#63 SV40X-KVSFL-YHWTY-NW9BK-VH4VC
#64 DY6YC-98HCK-Q1R61-F054N-H8CPY
#65 D7TXK-YGY0P-ZG08N-3FL68-KSW2M
#66 TWV4G-XV9VM-WPYKV-LHJ2G-G5H9S
#67 5GSBC-TLLMK-582F1-WNNCN-6481Y
#68 BRC6N-7SM63-3P5P6-725MD-BNCLD
#69 5QT9F-TSL88-5H8HX-WG8FJ-6ZYF5
#70 JSJ7J-C4D6B-QMVWQ-V0V7B-08F80
#71 KJ5V3-29HNQ-D4K4K-3JKN5-KCPS1
#72 BD6S1-77HL0-34RJP-735G9-BVCMT
#73 5DXDD-GW9BX-FDB9Z-KSR7L-8XV8K
#74 ZSDCJ-BHMBP-TCC3G-YBSMN-L61LY
#75 YKW9P-PLZKS-CV008-NH9S5-V54K1
#76 5BB3S-35M4J-PJZWY-7XKT4-BPPRV
#77 488XZ-TD88L-ZFV5B-8202S-JND9Q
#78 DXCG2-9KMDC-QC5XM-FR5F7-HQCFF
#79 J0M4B-CZTVK-QXDKV-VWZ21-0H698
#80 TWBL7-X6XGH-WFHX1-LTXV7-G3TYF
#81 Q99DN-VW5F2-2T64L-SY5PX-MWCZH
#82 ZZRHH-B8WRB-T7DVJ-YMDCQ-LYQ1B
#83 DV9BG-9H8MZ-QR1FL-FKMCS-HK21Q
#84 CJ0RQ-Y92LG-S4MBB-HJ6VY-WCKYP
#85 RWQ9X-66JML-0FG7Y-QTGRK-733CC
#86 CRKJ9-LS33V-1PJS5-5239S-YNZNQ
#87 C06Y5-LZHCF-1XR6F-5W541-YHCP8
#88 0PPLS-12TG5-HTSX6-666VT-4FKYX
#89 SR2MR-6FFG5-6YR30-BRRG6-XQVM7
#90 JDXYQ-Q4WYG-G9C7B-5NGVY-Y43YP
#91 40YL4-3M032-H505H-MK0J3-NKD0N
#92 JZ6K4-QZWG7-GQ3QK-58Z7J-YT685
#93 YKSL9-Z0WTV-WTLN5-0S05S-ZXDWQ
#94 57CL4-T3M32-5Q55H-W35J3-6VC0N
#95 CJ0PK-Y9251-S4MZD-HJ6BL-WCKVK
#96 C6G4K-LD1HP-11QTN-5V9R8-Y94CM
#97 LZSP2-287WC-L7BGM-QMBZ7-7YBQF
#98 YQ70R-PNLBY-C1SZQ-NJ7WT-VCR4X
#99 42LNF-GB358-71QSX-YFQQJ-LSN55

James


Duncan Smith wrote:
> 
> Right, so you might be able to come up with something that produces similar
> output.  Do you know if the strings are generated independently?  If so,
> there must be some stochastic component (or unknown inputs) or the strings
> would be identical.  How about the frequencies of the characters?  Are some
> (significantly) more frequent than others?  Do some characters follow others
> with unusually high frequency?  Do characters tend to cluster (more or less
> that you'd expect from independently generated characters)?  Unless the
> strings are very long you probably can't answer these questions too reliably
> with only 100 strings.
> 
> Markov Chains are a possibility (as already mentioned).  I'd probably start
> by looking at the simpler things first.  The 1000 to 1200 sum might be a
> clue, particularly if you're having trouble emulating it.  Of course, if
> this turns out to be some sort of code and you're looking at some encoded
> text, then that's something I know little about, and the above might be next
> to useless.
> 
> Maybe the basic statistical tests in Gary Strangman's stats.py would be
> useful, unless you already have R and RPy?
> 
> Duncan
> 
> 


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
James Sapara
Software Architect

Front Logic Inc.                Tel: 306.653.2725 x14
Suite 300, Scotia Center        Toll Free: 1.800.521.4510
111 Second Ave South            Fax: 306.653.0972
Saskatoon, SK S7K 1K6
Canada
http://www.frontlogic.com           james at frontlogic.com

Find out what TYPENGO(tm) N300 Search Technology can do for your
company: http://www.frontlogic.com/interactive/hosts/typengo/index.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Nov  3 09:20:15 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 09:20:15 -0500
Subject: Python for PDAs/Mobile phones?
In-Reply-To: <cmab25$7il$1@news.tudelft.nl>
References: <cmab25$7il$1@news.tudelft.nl>
Message-ID: <TfOdnakIePxgexXcRVn-pA@powergate.ca>

Andre Meyer wrote:
> Hi Pythoneers
> 
> Some time ago there was an annoucement* of Python being implemented for 
> Nokia phones. Is that project still alive?
> 
> What are the options for running Python on mobile phones or PDAs?

http://www.forum.nokia.com/main/0,6566,4_22,00.html suggests strongly
that the project is alive and kicking.

Presumably, contacting Nokia would be a good way to learn more...

-Peter


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Thu Nov 18 03:38:38 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:38:38 +0200
Subject: Python generators in Java?
References: <ppWdnQCou6jBUQXcRVn-jA@adelphia.com>
	<I%4md.41892$Z14.16845@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <rnnop0911vfatimpjj2h9jp1kdnnehalln@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:44:46 +0000, rumours say that Alan Kennedy
<alanmk at hotmail.com> might have written:

>http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/releases/j2se15langfeat/

In that page, under "Autoboxing/Unboxing", there is the following
sentence:

"""
In a pure object-oriented language there should be no difference between
a primitive data type and a reference, as everything is an object.
"""

How sweet... a Sun document for Java that can be used for Python
advocacy: "Python is a pure object-oriented language" :)
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
"Tssss!" --Brad Pitt as Achilles in unprecedented Ancient Greek


From jbors at mail.ru  Tue Nov  2 13:22:19 2004
From: jbors at mail.ru (Dmitry Borisov)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 21:22:19 +0300
Subject: Simple cross-platform audio playback and recording
In-Reply-To: <583afd79.0411021002.1dc00184@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <E1CP3IR-0001X7-00.jbors-mail-ru@f20.mail.ru>

From: arsalan_zaidi at hotmail.com (Arsalan)
To: python-list at python.org
Date: 2 Nov 2004 10:02:03 -0800
Subject: Simple cross-platform audio playback and recording

> 
> Hi.
> 
> I'm looking for a simple library for audio recording and playback.
> I've looked all over but stuff like pygame etc. is just overkill (plus
> I couldn't find a way to record audio).
> 
> Anyone have any pointers?

http://pymedia.org ?
Dmitry/


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Nov 22 20:21:08 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 20:21:08 -0500
Subject: Changing the color of default frame border
In-Reply-To: <1101170615.382927.136240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1101170615.382927.136240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cnu394$lls$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Mudcat wrote:
> I would like to change the color of the default border around frames or
> widgets. Note: not the highlight border, but the default border. There
> have been many previous requests about the highlight border, but I
> couldn't find anything on changing the default border color.
> 
> I know how to change the border relief and width but have found no way
> to change the color of it. Is there a way to do that?

What platform, what framework, possibly what versions of everything,
would be just a bit of a help to those attempting to answer...

-Peter


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov 22 06:58:02 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:58:02 +0100
Subject: Help for a newbie in Python and ZODB
References: <39eca62c.0411212341.330dabdc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cnsk8a$cvn$05$2@news.t-online.com>

> I am in charge to develop a system who will analyse a network, type
> Three-Tier Architecture. I would like to use ZODB or (exclusive)
> PostgreSQL. But I don't know witch one to use? Someone could help me
> and tell me what are the differencies between ZODB and PostgreSQL. My
> system will be developped in Java. If I use ZODB how I'll make the
> transition with Python?

You can't use zodb from java. And if your system is developed in java, where
comes python into the equation at all? In the form of jython? While that
surely would be a good choice for ease of programming, it also won't allow
you to access zodb.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From ahaas at airmail.net  Fri Nov 12 13:43:16 2004
From: ahaas at airmail.net (Art Haas)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:43:16 -0600
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] Eighteenth release of PythonCAD now available
Message-ID: <20041112184316.GI3360@artsapartment.org>

I'm pleased to announce the eighteenth development release of PythonCAD,
a CAD package for open-source software users. As the name implies,
PythonCAD is written entirely in Python. The goal of this project is
to create a fully scriptable drafting program that will match and eventually
exceed features found in commercial CAD software. PythonCAD is released
under the GNU Public License (GPL).

PythonCAD requires Python 2.2 or Python 2.3. The interface is GTK 2.0
based, and uses the PyGTK module for interfacing to GTK. The design of
PythonCAD is built around the idea of separating the interface
from the back end as much as possible. By doing this, it is hoped
that both GNOME and KDE interfaces can be added to PythonCAD through
usage of the appropriate Python module. As of the sixteenth release,
a Cocoa based front end is available for people on OS X having
the Python/Objective-C bindings. Addition of other PythonCAD 
interfaces will depend on the availability of a Python module for that
particular interface and developer interest and action.

The eighteenth release of PythonCAD enhances the printing abilities
introduced in the seventeenth release. Radial and Angular dimensions
are now printed completely, and dimension markers like arrows or slashes
are printed for all dimension entities. Another enhancement in this
release is the improved restoration of deleted dimensions in undo
operations. Previously the dimensions were recreated with their various
attributes having default values, whereas now they are recreated with
the attribute values being restored to the values they had when the
dimension was deleted. This release also features numerous internal
code improvements dealing with the storage of entity values for undo/redo
operations, and a wide variety of bug fixes and code improvements are
present in this release as well.

Additionally, an RPM '.spec' file is now included in the code for people
wishing to build RPM packages of PythonCAD. The '.spec' file was created
by D. Scott Barninger, and I'd like to thank him for this contribution.
I'd also like to thank Cedric Delfosse for providing PythonCAD '.deb'
packages to Debian users.

The mailing list for the development and use of PythonCAD is available.
Visit the following page for information about subscribing and viewing
the mailing list archive:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythoncad

Visit the PythonCAD web site for more information about what PythonCAD
does and aims to be:

http://www.pythoncad.org/

Come and join me in developing PythonCAD into a world class drafting
program!

Art Haas
-- 
Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities
the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind.

-Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822


From jimmy at retzlaff.com  Fri Nov  5 08:40:31 2004
From: jimmy at retzlaff.com (Jimmy Retzlaff)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 05:40:31 -0800
Subject: ANN: EasyDialogs for Windows version 1.16.0
Message-ID: <A7B5C22F20EE3C4E95744E2F03F1887F21CD45@MAYOR.retzlaff.com>

EasyDialogs for Windows is available at:

http://www.averdevelopment.com/python/

EasyDialogs for Windows is a ctypes based emulation of the EasyDialogs
module included in the Python distribution for Macintosh. It attempts to
be as compatible as possible. Code using the Macintosh EasyDialogs
module can often be run unchanged on Windows using this module. The
module has been tested on Python 2.3 running on Windows NT, 98, XP, and
2003. I would appreciate feedback at jimmy at retzlaff.com about experience
running this on other versions of Windows (I attempted to avoid APIs
that weren't available on Windows 95 or Windows NT 4.0).

EasyDialogs is written in pure Python using Thomas Heller's ctypes
module (http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/) to call Windows
APIs directly. No Python GUI toolkit is used. This means that relatively
small distributions can be made with py2exe (or its equivalents). A
simple test of all the dialogs in EasyDialogs bundled up using py2exe
results in a distribution that is about 1.25MB. Using py2exe in concert
with NSIS as shown at
http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/moin.cgi/SingleFileExecutable
allows the same test to run as a single file executable that is just
under 500KB.

Prerequisites:
EasyDialogs for Windows requires Windows, Python 2.3, and ctypes 0.6.3.

License: MIT

Change history:

Version 1.16.0
 - Removed resource DLL, resources are now in a Python source file which
   simplifies distribution of apps with py2exe
 - Spelling corrections
 - File open/save dialogs did not display on Windows 98
 - AskString edit boxes were too short on Windows 98
 - Improved display of drop down lists on Windows 98 and NT
 - Made minor changes to bring inline with CVS version 1.16 for
Macintosh

Version 1.14.0
 - Initial public release

Jimmy


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov 22 06:53:30 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:53:30 +0100
Subject: The Microsoft Platform Ahead by David Platt;
	thoughts about Python and Zope
References: <AQ5od.24563$6q2.12650@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <cnsjvq$cvn$05$1@news.t-online.com>

> I know that these didn't originate with Python and Zope, and also that
> .NET adds extra Microsoft-specific goodies. However, the real possibility
> is that the Microsoft-centricity of .NET may diminish in time when
> VB.NET/C# /ASP.NET provide an attractive multiplatform alternative to
> Python and Zope or other content-management/portal/web service frameworks.

They still won't run on unix - which is for many people a reason not to use
them.

> Will the open-source web service frameworks suffer the same fate as the
> Netscape browser?

Netscape was a product selled - zope and twisted aren't. 
 

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 17 13:05:23 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:05:23 -0500
Subject: thread, threading; how to kill a thread?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6495.1100709141.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <m37jokwiqj.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
	<mailman.6495.1100709141.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <419b91c5$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>

Aaron Bingham wrote:
> There is no way to 'kill' a thread in Python.  You will need to do 
> something like
> 
> def timedLoop():
>    while not done:
>        time.sleep(10)
>        doSomething()

See this recipe for an example using a threading.Event as the flag:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65448

Kent


From ken at perfect-image.com  Wed Nov 17 11:11:07 2004
From: ken at perfect-image.com (Ken Godee)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:11:07 -0700
Subject: [PyQt] How to get the QRect of a QMenuBar (QPopupMenu) item ?
In-Reply-To: <cnfm98$lrs$1@ellebore.saclay.cea.fr>
References: <cnfm98$lrs$1@ellebore.saclay.cea.fr>
Message-ID: <419B781B.6090402@perfect-image.com>

Erwan Adam wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I try to introduce tooltips in my application written
> in PyQt (more precisly, in the menubar of my application)
> but I can't find a way to get the QRect instance
> associated to a QMenuBar item (neither a QPopupMenu item)
> 

QObect Class?

QObject::queryList()
QObject::child()

Also try the PyQt list "pykde"




From Doran_Dermot at emc.com  Wed Nov 24 03:22:16 2004
From: Doran_Dermot at emc.com (Doran_Dermot at emc.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:22:16 -0000
Subject: pyQt data aware objects for Windows
Message-ID: <97B6410BE753D411894E00D0B77E6F7F0315E31E@neam2mx1.corp.emc.com>

Hi Daniel,

This is probably what you are looking for:

Mailing list: pykde at mats.imk.fraunhofer.de 
Subscribe via : http://mats.imk.fraunhofer.de/mailman/listinfo/pykde

Cheers!!

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+doran_dermot=emc.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+doran_dermot=emc.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
Daniel Dittmar
Sent: 23 November 2004 17:55
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: pyQt data aware objects for Windows

Paul Drummond wrote:
> Sorry if this is the wrong place to post - is there a pyQt newsgroup?
> I know there is a mailing list but I hate them!

http://www.gmane.org/ allows you to access many mailing list as 
newsgroups. You can add new mailing lists if they aren't registered yet, 
but you should probably check with the mailing list members first if 
it's ok.

Daniel
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From uche.ogbuji at fourthought.com  Fri Nov 12 16:00:57 2004
From: uche.ogbuji at fourthought.com (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 14:00:57 -0700
Subject: [4suite] Re: get element text in DOM?
In-Reply-To: <419269ED.6020009@bellsouth.net>
References: <1100113869.1638.9.camel@swdb> <419269BE.6040903@bellsouth.net>
	<419269ED.6020009@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <1100293258.4522.7.camel@borgia>

On Wed, 2004-11-10 at 14:20 -0500, Jeremy Jones wrote:
> Sorry - my send finger got a little trigger happy.  Let's try again.
> 
> Jeremy Jones wrote: 
> > Juliano Freitas wrote: 
> > > How can i get the text between the <teste> tags??
> > > 
> > >   
> > > > > > xml = """<root><teste> texto </teste></root>"""
> > > > > > from xml.dom import minidom
> > > > > > document = minidom.parseString(xml)
> > > > > > document
> > > > > >         
> > > <xml.dom.minidom.Document instance at 0x4181df0c>
> > >   
> > > > > > minidom.getElementsByTagName('teste')
> > > > > >         
> > > 
> > >   
> > > > > > element = document.getElementsByTagName('teste')
> > > > > > element
> > > > > >         
> > > [<DOM Element: teste at 0x418e110c>]
> > >   
> > > > > > element[0].nodeType
> > > > > >         
> > > 1
> > > 
> > > Juliano Freitas
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   
> > How about something like this:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> In [24]: from xml.dom import minidom
> 
> In [25]: x = """<root><teste> texto </teste></root>"""
> 
> In [26]: document = minidom.parseString(x)
> 
> In [27]: print document.documentElement.getElementsByTagName
> ('teste')[0].childNodes[0].data

Or, ObTopic, for 4Suite recent CVS:

>>> from Ft.Xml.Domlette import NonvalidatingReader
>>> doc = NonvalidatingReader.parseString("<root><teste> texto
</teste></root>", 'urn:dummy')
>>> print doc.xpath('string(/root/teste)')
 texto

Simple and sweet IMHO.

-- 
Uche Ogbuji                                    Fourthought, Inc.
http://uche.ogbuji.net    http://4Suite.org    http://fourthought.com
A hands-on introduction to ISO Schematron - http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/edu/x-dw-xschematron-i.html
Schematron abstract patterns - http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-stron.html
Wrestling HTML (using Python) - http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2004/09/08/pyxml.html
XML's growing pains - http://www.adtmag.com/article.asp?id=10196
XMLOpen and more XML Hacks - http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-think27.html
A survey of XML standards - http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-stand4/



From benjamin.scott at gmail.com  Sun Nov 21 14:02:28 2004
From: benjamin.scott at gmail.com (Benjamin Scott)
Date: 21 Nov 2004 11:02:28 -0800
Subject: R BATCH jobs from Python
References: <ccdb2248.0411201530.1ee3df95@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6654.1100995055.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b858fc32.0411211102.453e85f2@posting.google.com>

Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.6654.1100995055.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> On Saturday 20 November 2004 05:30 pm, Benjamin Scott wrote:
> > Author: Moosebumps
> > Subject (1): Batch commands on Windows
> > Subject (2): os.system always opens new window on Windows XP/2000
> > 
> > here is the operation that works, but isn't actually carried out in
> > Python:
> > 
> > Start->Run "cmd" ***command line appears***
> > 
> > then i enter the following commands (i copied and pasted the whole
> > session so that you can see exactly what i did):
> > ******************************************************
> > Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
> > (C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
> > 
> > C:\Documents and Settings\BRdir>cd c:\Applications\R\rw1091\bin
> > 
> > C:\Applications\R\rw1091\bin>Rcmd BATCH c:\test.txt
> > 
> > C:\Applications\R\rw1091\bin>
> > ******************************************************
> 
> It would have been better to show us the Python code that *didn't*
> work. ;-)

i was trying to spare you the pain... ;)

> 
> But I suspect it looks like this:
> 
> os.system('cd c:\Applications\R\rw1091\bin')
> os.system('Rcmd BATCH c:\test.txt')

yes, in fact it did look something like this.

> 
> and your complaint is that the first 'cd' doesn't affect
> the second command's context (i.e. they are in separate
> shells).
> 

yes, i couldn't pass multiple commands.  that was the main problem. 
the shell would immediately close once it was opened.

> You are right that os.system() uses separate shells, and
> this is what it's supposed to do.
> 
> There are several fixes for this particular problem. One
> is to do the 'cd' in python:
> 
> os.chdir('c:\Applications\R\rw1091\bin')
> os.system('Rcmd BATCH c:\test.txt')
> 

this worked... i think i changed the backslashes to double
backslashes, but with minor alterations it worked.  thanks very much.

> Another is to just run the command directly:
> 
> os.system('c:\Applications\R\rw1091\bin\Rcmd BATCH c:\test.txt')
> 
> Either should work fine for your example.
> 
> And, of course, it should be mentioned that there exists
> a set of R bindings for Python so you could drive R directly,
> instead of kludging a script driven from a system call in
> Python.
> 

yes, the following poster, Tim C, mentions RPy.  i have tinkered with
RPy and with RSPython from omegahat.  RPy seems to work as you would
want/expect.  just takes a bit of time to get used to the syntax.  i
think this might be overkill in this case unless there are major
performance differences of which i am unaware.

> You can also do it with popen, but it's probably less
> intuitive than the solutions above (in general, popen isn't
> really worth it unless you want to pipe the stdin/stdout
> through your program -- which you don't seem to need here?).

this is the type of stuff that adds unnecessary confusion for
developers attempting to use new tools.  that is, there seems to be
multiple tools that all have overlapping functionality, but they are
administered differently.  this was part of the motivation for writing
popen5 (renamed: subprocess), but in order for this tool to be
accessible to new developers it needs more examples in its
documentation... or there needs to be a crossreference with more
examples existing elsewhere.  popen5 has many examples on how the new
tool is related to the handful of tools that came before it, but this
isn't particularly helpful to a newcomer to the tool.

tools that allow interprocess/application communication seem like they
add so much value to the parent application; i am surprised i wasn't
able to find some kind of beginner's "Quick Start" online somewhere. 
anyhow, that's my $.02.

> 
> Cheers,
> Terry

thanks again for your feedback,

benjamin scott


From autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Nov 29 08:03:29 2004
From: autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Robson)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:03:29 +0000
Subject: wxStyledTextCtrl problem ?
References: <pan.2004.11.28.12.10.30.74527@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<291120040011546030%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.29.13.03.28.32188@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 08:10:18 +0000, Jean Brouwers wrote:

> If you are running GTK+ try using
> 
>         self.Editor.SetSTCFocus(True)
> 
> in addition to or instead of SetFocus().  Plus maybe
> 
>         wx.CallAfter(self.Editor.EnsureCaretVisible)
> 
> It solved the 'dissapearing caret' problem for our application.

Thanks - that worked perfectly !



From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 15 01:05:30 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 14 Nov 2004 22:05:30 -0800
Subject: simple recursion help
References: <Gpyed.320058$bp1.6526@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<VUyed.320061$bp1.273357@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<mailman.5375.1098565018.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm4uqv.nmgjbj1vt0spjN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0410231916.450f67d@posting.google.com>
	<a5uxtxctfpx7.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0411142205.460379f@posting.google.com>

Thorsten Kampe <thorsten at thorstenkampe.de> wrote:
> > (1) "Variation" is the same as "permutation".
> 
> Sorry, no.

Sorry, yes. Please learn to accept the fact that a word
("permutation", in this case) can have several definitions. You are
not the Pope of mathematics, and there is none. Different people
define it different ways. Your definition is by no way the only
accepted definition. You have been raised one school of
notation/terminology, other people have been raised in another school
of notation/terminology. What the French call "body" ("corps"), the
American call it "field" ("champ") as in "the Real Number Field, the
Complex Number Field". Many examples like that.

> * variations   without repetition = P(n, k)

Funny, "variation" starts with the letter "v", where do you think the
"P" as in your "P(n, k)" come from? Surely not from "Pariation",
right? The fact that you see the "P(n, k)" notation shows you that
many people call this function "permutation". You simply were raised
in a particular school of terminology and were not aware that another
school of terminology existed.

What you have called ""variation with repetition", other people call
it "string". As I said, you are not the Pope of mathematics, and don't
expect other people will agree with your terminology.

Learn to accept the fact that what you call "variation", other people
call it "permutation". Like it or not, it's a fact. Now, re-read the
following sentence:

> > (1) "Variation" is the same as "permutation".

and try to understand what I was saying:

    Your "variation" == Other people's "permutation"

is that clear, now?

Please check
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/BallPicking.html
which I have pointed out in my earlier message and which you did not
bother to read, at all. I would say the majority of students in the
U.S.A. are trained with the terminology convention I use. Surely the
usage of the term "variation" is also popular, but I would say that at
present it constitutes the minority, not the majority.

As I said, It's matter of semantics.

regards,

Hung Jung


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov 23 13:02:32 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:02:32 GMT
Subject: protocols, inheritance and polymorphism
In-Reply-To: <Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>
	<Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <YWKod.137814$HA.44609@attbi_s01>

Dan Perl wrote:
> I have a question here, as we are discussing now protocol interfaces vs. 
> inheritance.  Is using a class that implements a protocol without inheriting 
> from a base class still "polymorphism"?

Some good definitions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymorphism_%28computer_science%29)

There are probably two types of polymorphism relevant to the current 
discussion: parametric polymorphism and subtyping polymorphism.  In 
parametric polymorphism, a function is written so as to work with 
objects of different types.  Subtyping polymorphism is a subtype of 
parametric polymorphism that restricts the polymorphism to only objects 
that inherit from a specified base class.

In its most basic use, Python is inherently parametrically polymorphic 
-- all functions are written so as to work with different types. 
Consider a few simple functions:

 >>> def f(x):
...     return 'f(%s)' % x
...
 >>> def g(x):
... 	return 2**x
...

Both of these functions work perfectly well with a wide range of objects:

 >>> f(1), f(2.0), f('abc'), f([1,2,3])
('f(1)', 'f(2.0)', 'f(abc)', 'f([1, 2, 3])')
 >>> g(4), g(5.0), g(decimal.Decimal(6))
(16, 32.0, Decimal("64"))

I didn't have to do anything special to make them work this way.  Any 
object that supports __str__ can be passed to f, e.g.:


 >>> class S(object):
...     def __str__(self):
...         return 'str'
...
 >>> f(S())
'f(str)'

and any object that supports __rpow__ (or __coerce__, or some other way 
to be raised to a power) can be passed to g, e.g.:

 >>> class P(object):
...     def __rpow__(self, other):
...         return other**other
...
 >>> g(P())
4

So both functions f and g are parametrically polymorphic.  If you wanted 
to artifically restrict f or g to support only subtype polymorphism, you 
could do this with isinstance.  In most cases, I would probably advise 
against this -- if you're using isinstance to restrict your functions to 
only subtype polymorphism, you're reducing the usefulness of your code.

This is not to say that there are never any times when you want to use 
isinstance.  Here's a good example from my code for a Bunch class[1]:

class Bunch(object):
     ...
     def update(self, *args, **kwds):
         if len(args) == 1:
             other, = args
             if isinstance(other, self.__class__):
                 other = other.__dict__
             try:
                 self.__dict__.update(other)
             except TypeError:
                 raise TypeError('cannot update Bunch with %s' %
                                 type(other).__name__)
         elif len(args) != 0:
             raise TypeError('expected 1 argument, got %i' % len(args))
         self.__dict__.update(kwds)

In the code here, we use isinstance to check on whether or not to use 
the argument's __dict__.  Now I could have written the isinstance 
section as:

             try:
                 other = other.__dict__
             except AttributeError:
                 pass

and then the function would 'work' with any object that had a __dict__ 
attribute.  But since other classes are not guaranteed to use __dict__ 
in the same way that Bunch does (e.g. they're not guaranteed to have all 
attributes in their __dict__s), this would give some potentially 
confusing results:

 >>> class C(object):
...     def x():
...         def get(self):
...             return 5
...         return dict(fget=get)
...     x = property(**x())
...
 >>> c = C()
 >>> b = Bunch()
 >>> b.update(c)
 >>> b.x
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'Bunch' object has no attribute 'x'

The point here is that I'm using isinstance here because I *know* there 
are objects out there that, unlike Bunch objects, may have 'attributes' 
not stored in their __dict__, and I *know* they might get passed to 
Bunch.update.  Since I can't appropriately support their use, I want the 
user to be notified of this (with the TypeError).

Of course, I'm still making heavy use of the more general parametric 
polymorphism because even if the object doesn't inherit from Bunch, I 
still pass it to dict.update, which works with any type that supports 
the mapping protocol (and a few other types besides).  So if, in the 
future dict.update gains support for some new type, my code doesn't 
artifically restrict the type of parameter that can be passed to my 
function.

Hope this was helpful (or at least vaguely intelligible) ;)

STeve


[1] Thanks to Peter Otten for the implementation suggestion


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov  1 16:21:35 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 16:21:35 -0500
Subject: getting socket.bind() exception, but no actual error
In-Reply-To: <1224a8f9.0411011045.6740c5d8@posting.google.com>
References: <1224a8f9.0411011045.6740c5d8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <RSxhd.2736$931.635@lakeread01>

Clarence Gardner wrote:
> I've got a problem that I don't see how to program around. A socket server
> that was running fine, today started getting an exception from the bind()
> call (errno 22, Invalid argument) and yet the bind had actually worked.
> 
> This is apparent from this code: it prints the error message, but then 
> breaks out of the loop and the listen() and accept() calls work normally.
> 
> How can one handle a function that is both working and raising an
> exception?
> 
>     sockobj=socket(AF_INET,SOCK_STREAM)
>     while True:
>         try:
>             sockobj.bind(('',4321))
>         except socketerror,e:
>             print e
>             if str(e).find('in use') == -1:
>                 break
>             print '.'
>             time.sleep(1)
>     sockobj.listen(5)

Is it possible you already have a process bound to that port, and that 
process is handling the incoming connections?

Otherwise it sounds a little bizarre. In fact even my own attempt at 
explaining doesn't ring true because on Win2k, at least, a second bind 
will raise (10048, 'Address already in use'), and I get a similar error 
on Linux. Rats.

I take it this code has been copied and pasted? For example, if the host 
were a single space rather than an empty string /that/ might cause this 
problem. Sorry I can't be more help.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Nov 30 15:33:41 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:33:41 -0800
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.4 (final)
In-Reply-To: <I8Odne4ZHf_I5jHcRVn-tA@rcn.net>
References: <mailman.6913.1101817983.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8sGdnQjN6qGu7THcRVn-3A@rcn.net>
	<cohse7$kvs$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<I8Odne4ZHf_I5jHcRVn-tA@rcn.net>
Message-ID: <10qpm17tm9l7n21@corp.supernews.com>

Dave Merrill wrote:

>Should have been more specific.
>
>As I recall, after I installed 2.4rc1 I installed the latest versions of
>wxWindows and SPE IDE into it. The 2.4 copy of SPE died silently when
>started, which I can accept as a incompatible versions.
>
>What was strange to me was that at that point, the 2.3.3 copy of SPE did the
>same thing. After I uninstalled 2.4, SPE ran again under 2.3.3, and that's
>what I'm using now.
>  
>

Some vague possibilities that occur to me --

The 2.4 version is missing some libraries, or has binary libraries that 
are compiled against a different version of Python.  (All compiled 
extensions must be compiled against a specific major.minor version; 
extensions compiled against 2.3 won't work with 2.4.)

You have path issues, such that you're attempting to run 2.3 libs with 
2.4, or vice versa.  Check which version is now your "default" 
(associated with .py/.pyw files, and/or found by typing a bare 'python').

I'm leaning towards the first of these as being most likely -- I 
strongly suspect that there are few third-party packages that are 
compiled against 2.4 yet.  Those should start appearing Real Soon 
Now(tm), though, now that 2.4 is officially released.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From drew at gremlinhosting.com  Sat Nov 27 06:17:23 2004
From: drew at gremlinhosting.com (Andrew James)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:17:23 +0000
Subject: import keyword behaviour - performance impact if used multiple
	times?
Message-ID: <1101554244.20200.11.camel@odin>

Hi,
I've been looking around on Google for the answer to this question, and
it's beginning to really bug me. I'm making some design decisions for
some code I'm writing, and I'm wondering whether (Good Design Decisions
apart), there's a performance impact in importing the same module in two
different files. For example, with the following:

fileA.py
-----------
import psycopg
class A:
  ....

fileB.py
import psycopg
class B:
   a = A()
   ....

If I run fileB, will this import the psycopg twice, or once only? Is
this something to do with system modules being singletons?

If someone could help me out with this it would be much appreciated.

Regards,
Andrew

-- 
Andrew James <drew at gremlinhosting.com>



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  9 19:32:08 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 17:32:08 -0700
Subject: ANN: IPython 0.6.4 is out.
References: <mailman.6129.1099948743.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmpsam$l3i$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<mailman.6171.1100021758.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmrgjg$7hf$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <cmrni8$mpr$1@sea.gmane.org>

Robert Kern wrote:

> Fernando Perez wrote:
> 
>> Thanks!  That is indeed my intention, so I'll probably follow your advice. 
>> But will this mean that unsuspecting souls using CVS will get HEAD
>> automatically? If that's the case, I'll add a nice warning about HEAD
>> becoming _really_
>> unstable for a while, so I don't burn anyone.  So far HEAD has been the
>> place for users to get cutting-edge bugfixes, so at least I should warn them
>> that this may change in the future.
> 
> You could also leave CVS HEAD as it is and hop on the SVN bandwagon for
> the new version.
> 
> Come on! You know you want to!

Mmh.  I've thought about it.  The problem is that I'm addicted to Cervisia
(KDE's CVS gui), esp. to its super-clean graphical diff interface.  And SVN
support in cervisia is not there yet, unfortunately.  Suggestions?

f



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Nov 12 18:12:07 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 23:12:07 GMT
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <4195419b.303035081@news.oz.net>

On 9 Nov 2004 11:56:32 GMT, Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote:

>I have had a look at the signal module and the example
>and came to the conclusion that the example wont work
>if you try to do this in a thread.
>
>So is there a chance similar code will work in a thread?
>
Do you have a specific use in mind? E.g., I believe there are things you can
do in the main thread that won't work in others, and other things
can be solved by appropriate communication between threads, etc.,
but without more clues it's hard to discuss it. I didn't look at
the example because I don't want to guess what "similar code" you
really are interested in ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From peter at somewhere.com  Fri Nov 26 03:45:10 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 09:45:10 +0100
Subject: Operator Overloading
In-Reply-To: <f6b69c93.0411250635.740bda00@posting.google.com>
References: <f6b69c93.0411250014.61315219@posting.google.com>
	<co48s1$r1f$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<f6b69c93.0411250635.740bda00@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <co6qth$biu$1@swifty.westend.com>

Sebastien Boisgerault schrieb:
> Peter Maas <peter at somewhere.com> wrote in message news:<co48s1$r1f$1 at swifty.westend.com>...
> 
>>Sebastien Boisgerault schrieb:
[...]
>>but this is not what the Python Reference Manual says. Im not a
>>Numeric expert but AFAIK Numeric arrays are basically C arrays
>>having [] intrinsically so there's no need no deliver it via
>>__getitem__.
> 
> 
> I would buy your argument if I couldn't find the "__getitem__" method.
> But it does exist ! Except that it is hidden is the class __dict__ and
> apparently cannot be recovered from the instance.__getitem__ call ...

This is strange because it's not the same behaviour as in a pure
Python class. If you really need __getitem__ you could write a
wrapper (or derive, not sure if it is possible):

class sbArray(object):
     def __init__(self, plainarray):
         self.data = plainarray
     def __getitem__(self, idx):
         return self.data[idx]

:)

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From bjoti at home.se  Mon Nov 29 13:27:31 2004
From: bjoti at home.se (Bjorn Tillenius)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:27:31 +0200
Subject: unicode in doctests
Message-ID: <20041129182731.GA6909@home.se>

I'm trying to combine documentation and testing, by using DocFileSuite
from Python 2.4. But the problem is that I need to write non-ascii
characters in the test, and I can't get it to work. I haven't found a
way to specify which encoding the file is in, so it gets decoded to
unicode.

Anyone know if it's possible at all to use non-ascii character in a
DocFileSuite?

For example, this fails:

    >>> foo = u'f??'
    u'f??'

BTW, I know that I can use \-notation, but since the test will serve as
documentation as well, I don't want to use it.

Regards,

Bjorn


From exarkun at divmod.com  Tue Nov  2 12:14:17 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 17:14:17 GMT
Subject: Twisted problem
In-Reply-To: <9418be08.0411020843.7061abc8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041102171417.23443.565615037.divmod.quotient.270@ohm>

(Cross posting to twisted-python at twistedmatrix.com)

On 2 Nov 2004 08:43:26 -0800, elbertlev at hotmail.com (Elbert Lev) wrote:
>Hi!
> 
> 
> I'm having a problem with twisted on windows. Installed it and started
> finger tutorial. All was working fine untill stem 11 - running twistw
> (twistd in documentation). It dies with now error indication. Tried
> debugin it, but also with no succes: process terminates before getting
> to the run() method
> 
> def run():
>     app.run(runApp, ServerOptions)
> 
> 
> Please help.

  I can't quite tell what you're doing, or what error you're actually getting.  Can you include the full command line you are running, the full source file you are working with (or, preferably, a shorter one that demonstrates the same problem), and the full text of the error you receive, including the traceback if there is one?

  Jp


From nospam at nnn.com  Wed Nov 24 16:56:14 2004
From: nospam at nnn.com (Nick)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 22:56:14 +0100
Subject: Global surprise
Message-ID: <co2vp1$ec9$1@namru.matavnet.hu>

Hello,

It must be simple but it seems I misunderstand scopes in Python... :(

Could someone out there please explain to me why this is printed?
2 {0: 1, 1: 1}
instead of
2 {}

Thanks.
 N.

---- test.py ----

g = 0
di = {}

def test():
  global g
  di[g] = 1
  g += 1

test()
test()

print g, di




From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov  8 14:29:02 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 20:29:02 +0100
Subject: Comparing two minidom objects
References: <727daa7e.0411081033.276d5eba@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cmohdq$j1l$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

> I'd like to compare two xml.dom.minidom objects, but the naive attempt
> fails:
> 
>>>> import xml.dom.minidom
>>>> d1 = xml.dom.minidom.parse("ES.xml")
>>>> d2 = xml.dom.minidom.parse("ES.xml")
>>>> d1 == d2
> False

You want some recursive comparision that defines equality in terms of node
and children. Something like this:

def tree_eq(a, b):
    if a.nodeName == b.nodeName and len(a.childNodes) == len(b.childNodes):
         res = True
         for ac, bc in zip(a.childNodes, b.childNodes):
             res = res and tree_eq(ac, bc)
             if not res:
                 return False
         return res
    return False


The nodeName is just one property you can check for equality - maybe you
want to additionally compare nodeType and nodeValue.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From kevansb2b at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 16 17:01:50 2004
From: kevansb2b at yahoo.com (Web Science)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:01:50 -0500
Subject: 21614 Mining the Web: eigenVectors, Kriging, Inverse Distance
 Weighting Searches 21614
Message-ID: <419a7eb7$0$31279$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>

Site and Features:  http://www.eigensearch.com

Search engine, eigenMethod, eigenvector, mathematical, manifolds, science, technical, search tools, eigenmath, Jacobian, quantum, mechanics, manifolds, science, physics, chemistry, law, legal, government, home, office, business, domain lookup, medical, travel, food, university students, searching, searchers, surfing, advanced search, search tools

Chemistry, mathematics, physical sciences, engineering, aerospace, astronomy, photography, news, computers, software, investment, venture capital, stakeholder, Biology, Chemistry, Geosciences, Biotechnology, Medical, Nursing, Anthropology, psychology, psychiatry, Philosophy, History, Business, bachelor, Ph.D., Masters, administrative, MBA, eigenMethod, eigenvector, mathematical, manifolds, science, technical, search tools, eigenmath, Jacobian, quantum, mechanics, manifolds, physics, chemistry, law, legal, health, government, home, office, business, domain, lookup, medical, travel, food, university, students, search, searches, search engine, directory, directories, category, categories, help,  searching, searchers, surfing, advanced search, search help, search tips


Beta Users and advanced features Sign-up here...  http://www.eigensearch.com/inc/constructs/betasignup.htm

Central to eigenSearch Advanced is the freedom to construct complex search explorations, save the forms for later use; and apply weight factor to each phrase and term. EigenSearch processing will apply eigenvector math and Jacobian matrices to construct search terms that are tailored to your exploration. Cross-pollination is also applied as described below. The eigenvector approach is clearly highly advanced and would normally be useful for very sophisticated applications. Nevertheless, anyone may utilize the method. An advanced form is simply a matrix in which the user types words and phrases randomly in a multi-cell form (please click thumbnail to view).

Advanced features

EigenOperator (cross pollination) and eigenvector constructs
Cross document content pollination within every web site directory tree (unlike conventional search engines and tools eigenSearch checks for your terms and phrases and drills down though multiple directory documents)
EigenSearch cross-pollination is applied to documents within the same (tree) level in a URL (peer documents). Thereby limiting the amount of contamination of results
Illustration:
"Blood Hounds" + "English Breed" will present documents that contain either of these phrases within the same peer level in a document storage structure; for example, within the directory: www.smartdogs/hounds.
eigenSearch limits pollinating occurrences outside a peer level. For example; "blood hounds" + "English breed" found in two different directories would not report an eigenSearch result: i.e. "Blood hounds" found in www.smartdogs/hounds and "English Breed" found in. www.smartdogs/hounds/Europe would not be found. EigenSearch therefore searches one tree (peer) level in a site and looks for multiple occurrences of multiple phrases across all documents within this peer level.
Corporate products can be tailored to drill down infinite levels for eigenOperator (cross-pollinating operator) matching.
eigenSearch single phrase results will find all documents and show the results as independent findings. This way the user can find results across many documents and the combined highly constrained results are reserved for a single level cross pollination.
Extremely high (cross-pollinating) eigenValues will correspond to finely granular and refined search explorations.

Beta users receive the following features:
Login and password
Save search constructs for later use in your own personal construct tables
EigenOperator (cross Pollinating Operator) advanced features as described above (eigenvector to follow)
Database (Table) upload and eigenvector computations
EigenSearch seeks 300,000 beta testers for its advanced eigenOperator based cognitive engine. This engine will allow for a multiplicity of search parameters for users to select so as to mathematically narrow results. The system will employ eigenVectors, eigenValues and eigenMatrices to determine relevance to user searches; thereby rendering high fidelity confirmed search results.
Naturally the computational power for doing such math is why beta testers are required. Each tester is welcome to comment on user friendliness, speed, change and ergonomic elegance. It is an eigenSearch goal to continue advancing the user interface so as to remain intuitively simple to use while at the same time providing hi-fidelity explorations.
All beta testers will receive a login and password, which provides entry into features for saving search constructs and parameters according to their own classification approach. Saved results and parameters can be used at any time and modified to alter search results. Beta users will be able to import their own data sets (2-dimentional) and perform an eigenValue analysis.







<r<p_


From rrarey at gmail.com  Fri Nov  5 16:30:28 2004
From: rrarey at gmail.com (Ray)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 13:30:28 -0800
Subject: xml.dom.minidom appendChild/toxml formatting problem
Message-ID: <6471d296.0411051330.1477041@posting.google.com>

I have put together some pretty simple code for adding and removing
elements from an XML file, but am having a problem with toxml writing
out the correct format after I have called appendChild on a node.

Here is a snippet:

if (action == 'add'):
   newCluster = domi.createElement(elementType)
   newCluster.setAttribute("Name", elementName)
   elem.appendChild(newCluster)
else:
   elem.removeChild(childElem)

domi.normalize()

configFile = open(self.flist[0], "w")
newDoc = domi.toxml()
configFile.write(newDoc)
configFile.close()

Basically, if I start out with a Cluster that looks like this in the
XML file:
<Cluster Name="RAYTEST">
   <Cluster Name="RAYTEST2"/>
</Cluster>

and then use the createElement, setAttribute, and appendChild lines
from above to add a new Cluster called "RAYTEST3" to the "RAYTEST2"
Cluster, after calling domi.normalize(), domi.toxml(), and
configFile.write(), the XML looks like:
<Cluster Name="RAYTEST">
   <Cluster Name="RAYTEST2"><Cluster Name="RAYTEST3"/></Cluster>
</Cluster>

instead of how I would like it to look, which would be:
<Cluster Name="RAYTEST">
   <Cluster Name="RAYTEST2">
      <Cluster Name="RAYTEST3"/>
   </Cluster>
</Cluster>

Or, if I append "RAYTEST3" to "RAYTEST", it comes out as:
<Cluster Name="RAYTEST">
   <Cluster Name="RAYTEST2"/>
<Cluster Name="RAYTEST3"/></Cluster>

Instead of:
<Cluster Name="RAYTEST">
   <Cluster Name="RAYTEST2"/>
   <Cluster Name="RAYTEST3"/>
</Cluster>


The rest of the XML file retains its original whitespace and
linebreaks.  How can I get this to format the new changes correctly? 
Calling toprettyxml instead of toxml seems to double the whitespace
and linebreaks in the rest of the file.


From detlev at die-offenbachs.de  Sun Nov 28 05:40:10 2004
From: detlev at die-offenbachs.de (Detlev Offenbach)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 11:40:10 +0100
Subject: ANN: eric3 3.5.1 release
Message-ID: <coc9ua$vf6$2@online.de>

Hi,

this is to let all of you know about the release of eric3 3.5.1. This is
a bug fix release with improved unicode support. It is available via

http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html

Regards,
Detlev
-- 
Detlev Offenbach
detlev at die-offenbachs.de


From niels_bohr at uol.com.br  Sun Nov  7 15:03:37 2004
From: niels_bohr at uol.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio?= Mendes)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 18:03:37 -0200
Subject: PEP new assert idiom
In-Reply-To: <loom.20041107T094958-923@post.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmurvv.1meude125h1zrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6027.1099792216.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmvgit.vzj5g4hv9dsrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1099815505.15924.9.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<loom.20041107T094958-923@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1099857817.4481.5.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Em Dom, 2004-11-07 ?s 08:56 +0000, Steven Bethard escreveu:
> F?bio Mendes <niels_bohr <at> uol.com.br> writes:
> > 
> > I never said that commas should mean line continuation (as a backslash).
> > It CAN be used as implicit line continuations in lot cases, (like
> > function arguments, for instance. This would be just one more case.
> 
> I'm not sure that I understand you correctly, but if you're saying that the
> commas in a function argument list indicate an implicit line continuation, I
> think this is probably not correct.  It's the unclosed parentheses that indicate
> the line continuation, not the commas -- this is why you can write a function
> argument list across multiple lines, but it's also why you can write a tuple
> across lines:
> 
> >>> def f(x,
> ... y, z):
> ... 	print x, y, z
> ... 	

Now it makes sense to me... i thought that the commas was responsable for line continuation because this is how we usually separate the functions arguments and list/tuple/dictionary items. I never thought that this would work:

>>> d = {'foo':
...      'bar',
...      'bar':
...      'foo' }
 
But it works indeed ;)

I think my PEP is getting more and more nonsensical... I give up! Thanks for your advice guys,
Fabio



From deepak.sarda at gmail.com  Mon Nov  8 02:34:10 2004
From: deepak.sarda at gmail.com (Deepak Sarda)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 15:34:10 +0800
Subject: checking a thread has started
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.07.10.09.34.796410@virgilio.it>
References: <mailman.6001.1099749512.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.07.10.09.34.796410@virgilio.it>
Message-ID: <eaac783a04110723345de3fce0@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 09:10:32 GMT, Francesco Bochicchio
<bockman at virgilio.it> wrote:
> I'm not aware of any method in the standard library to do this. But you
> could try using events for this purpose, doing soomething like this:

I tried what you suggested and it works... almost!

This is my thread related code block:
 
while 1:
    t = CreateT( some params)
    t.start()
    t.actually_started.wait(4.0)
    if t.actually_started.isSet():
        threadList.append(t)
        break

And i loop over the params using this block. Now the whole program
runs and prints the expected output - reaches the last line of code.
But it just doesn't exit! I've tried putting a sys.exit() as well as a
raise SystemExit as the last line - the program still doesn't finish.

Out of the 15 threads, two threads had to be created twice before they
were properly started. I suspect it's due to these dangling threads
that the python interpretor can't exit cleanly. I may be totally wrong
there but that's my guess.


Deepak

-- 

Online: http://www.antrix.net/journal/


From nntp at mrside.dk  Wed Nov 10 10:29:13 2004
From: nntp at mrside.dk (Mathias)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:29:13 +0100
Subject: [Newbie]: How to find a specified digit in a number?
Message-ID: <dtqkd.63297$Vf.3129899@news000.worldonline.dk>

Hi everyone.

I'm making a little script which finds the right number from a couple of
choices, but I need a function or script which finds a specified digit,
eg. FindDigit(3579, 3) = 7.

Thanks in advance :-)
-- 
Mathias.


From ncoghlan at email.com  Sat Nov 27 07:58:56 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 22:58:56 +1000
Subject: The use of :
In-Reply-To: <uqSpd.4403$SA.2227@lakeread02>
References: <89cc6e1f.0411251858.40b6bbc7@posting.google.com>
	<uqSpd.4403$SA.2227@lakeread02>
Message-ID: <41a87a10$0$25771$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Dave Anderson wrote:
> this is answered in the python faq:
> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general.html#why-are-colons-required-for-the-if-while-def-class-statements 
> 
> 
>> The colon is required primarily to enhance readability

It also allows 'suiteless' versions of some statements:

   if x > 0: print "Greater that 0"
   while x > 0: x -= 1
   def f(): pass
   class c(object): pass
   for x in range(4): print x


Actually using that feature outside sample code is generally bad karma, though ;)

Cheers,
Nick.




From mwm at mired.org  Fri Nov  5 02:04:34 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 01:04:34 -0600
Subject: Has anyone released a Python "mock filesystem" for automated
 testing?
References: <OImdnYXxIItbfhfcRVn-iA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <x7is8ksrnh.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> The term "mock filesystem" refers to code allowing unit
> or acceptance tests to create, read and write, and manipulate
> in other ways "virtual" files, without any actual disk
> access.  Everything is held in memory and therefore fast,
> without risk of damaging real files, and with none of the
> messiness of leftover files after testing.

Just out of curiosity, does your os implement some form of disk in
memory disk? Go to <URL: http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi > and
search for either mfs or md for examples.

Second, consider using os.sep for path seperation, so that testing can
be done correctly for the OS the project is running on. Or possibly a
flag to indicate whether or not you want to use os.sep.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From anthonybaxter at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 08:59:29 2004
From: anthonybaxter at gmail.com (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 00:59:29 +1100
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.4 (final)
In-Reply-To: <I8Odne4ZHf_I5jHcRVn-tA@rcn.net>
References: <mailman.6913.1101817983.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8sGdnQjN6qGu7THcRVn-3A@rcn.net>
	<cohse7$kvs$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<I8Odne4ZHf_I5jHcRVn-tA@rcn.net>
Message-ID: <e69d3ed20411300559437ac34f@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 08:53:25 -0500, Dave Merrill <dmerrillq at usaq.netq> wrote:
> Should have been more specific.
> 
> As I recall, after I installed 2.4rc1 I installed the latest versions of
> wxWindows and SPE IDE into it. The 2.4 copy of SPE died silently when
> started, which I can accept as a incompatible versions.
> 
> What was strange to me was that at that point, the 2.3.3 copy of SPE did the
> same thing. After I uninstalled 2.4, SPE ran again under 2.3.3, and that's
> what I'm using now.
> 
> What caused this kind of interaction between installs? SPE and wxWindows
> both live in site-packages, which I would have thought would make them
> Python-version specific.

Beats me. You could try running SPE from a command line and seeing
what errors it spits out - you're probably going to need to talk to
whoever packaged up SPE.

Anthony


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Nov 11 20:14:26 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:14:26 -0500
Subject: I don't quite get this "string".find()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6274.1100201807.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6274.1100201807.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <IdUkd.93$nj.5@lakeread01>

Jaime Wyant wrote:

> Will someone explain this to me?
> 
> 
>>>>"test".find("")
> 
> 0
> 
> Why is the empty string found at position 0?
> 

Think of it this way: "test".find("") returns the index of the first 
position in "test" where a substring of length len("") occurs equal to "".

the-empty-set-is-a-subset-of-all-sets-ly y'rs  - steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From benji at benjiyork.com  Sat Nov 20 19:35:24 2004
From: benji at benjiyork.com (Benji York)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 18:35:24 -0600
Subject: Wrapping a C library in Python
In-Reply-To: <roy-2665D7.13444420112004@reader1.panix.com>
References: <roy-99F088.20103518112004@reader1.panix.com>	<e253918f.0411190823.25921d6b@posting.google.com>
	<roy-2665D7.13444420112004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <419FE2CC.8040202@benjiyork.com>

Roy Smith wrote:
> The problem is, I'm at a loss what to do for a slightly more complex 
> case. 

The ctypes tutorial talks about this issue: 
http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/tutorial.html. 
Especially the section s "Passing pointers" and "Structures and Unions".

I've also used the built-in struct module for simple cases.
-- 
Benji York
benji at benjiyork.com



From EP at zomething.com  Tue Nov  2 16:23:39 2004
From: EP at zomething.com (EP)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 13:23:39 -0800
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
In-Reply-To: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041102132339.1323889317.EP@zomething.com>


> Building a CPyAN will be a big job, no question.  But I think that for
> the Python community and for the Python Software Foundation, it should
> be job number one.


I must admit I found CPAN quite nice when I used Perl, and it would be terrific to have an equivalent for Python modules, at least for those of us using Windows boxes.

but... sometimes it's a matter of a bridge too far. 

Afterall, the Perl guys had more than one way to do it (CPAN)...




P.S.  if Python reflects original thinking, why are so many Python modules named "   py    "?




From rambam at bigpond.net.au  Fri Nov  5 06:31:34 2004
From: rambam at bigpond.net.au (Israel Raj T)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 11:31:34 GMT
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <878y9gbkh7.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>



http://dada.perl.it/shootout/craps.html

On the CPU score, Java scores 28.4 while Python is within cooee at 27.
(bigger is better )

On the updated version at http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/craps.php,
Python beats at least two java implementations.


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sat Nov  6 14:00:05 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 11:00:05 -0800
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au><ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04><418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au><c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com><418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org><1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com><418C7DCB.60502@acm.org>
	<mailman.5997.1099739459.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <62kv52-npq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
>         while ((c = in.read()) != -1)
>            out.write(c);

Incidentally, that Java code copies one character at a time.

> outputFile.write(inputFile.read())

The Python code is reading the entire string into memory and
then writing it.

The interpretter overhead vs system calls could be measured
by having the language involved in every byte transferred as
in the Java example, or negligibly as in the Python example.

Whenever anyone has an agenda, you can make all sorts of silly
claims.  IMHO the best thing to do is to lead by examples.
For years many people claimed Perl was line noise, hard to
maintain etc.  I never really saw much response, since the
Perl people were too busy writing real world code and helping
deliver part of the web revolution.  (And selling zillions of
books for O'Reilly :-)

I couldn't find any Python success stories on python.org itself,
but if you dig you can find the stories for the Python Business
Forum as well as Pythonology.

There are however remarkably few where you can go grab the
source code and see how it is all put together.  In fact I
couldn't find a single one, but didn't do an exhaustive
search from python.org.

Perhaps it is also worth linking to the projects done in
Python on SourceForge and elsewhere?

  http://sf.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=178

Roger 




From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Sat Nov 20 19:04:21 2004
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 18:04:21 -0600
Subject: R BATCH jobs from Python
In-Reply-To: <ccdb2248.0411201530.1ee3df95@posting.google.com>
References: <ccdb2248.0411201530.1ee3df95@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200411201804.21573.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Saturday 20 November 2004 05:30 pm, Benjamin Scott wrote:
> Author: Moosebumps
> Subject (1): Batch commands on Windows
> Subject (2): os.system always opens new window on Windows XP/2000
> 
> here is the operation that works, but isn't actually carried out in
> Python:
> 
> Start->Run "cmd" ***command line appears***
> 
> then i enter the following commands (i copied and pasted the whole
> session so that you can see exactly what i did):
> ******************************************************
> Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
> (C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
> 
> C:\Documents and Settings\BRdir>cd c:\Applications\R\rw1091\bin
> 
> C:\Applications\R\rw1091\bin>Rcmd BATCH c:\test.txt
> 
> C:\Applications\R\rw1091\bin>
> ******************************************************

It would have been better to show us the Python code that *didn't*
work. ;-)

But I suspect it looks like this:

os.system('cd c:\Applications\R\rw1091\bin')
os.system('Rcmd BATCH c:\test.txt')

and your complaint is that the first 'cd' doesn't affect
the second command's context (i.e. they are in separate
shells).

You are right that os.system() uses separate shells, and
this is what it's supposed to do.

There are several fixes for this particular problem. One
is to do the 'cd' in python:

os.chdir('c:\Applications\R\rw1091\bin')
os.system('Rcmd BATCH c:\test.txt')

Another is to just run the command directly:

os.system('c:\Applications\R\rw1091\bin\Rcmd BATCH c:\test.txt')

Either should work fine for your example.

And, of course, it should be mentioned that there exists
a set of R bindings for Python so you could drive R directly,
instead of kludging a script driven from a system call in
Python.

You can also do it with popen, but it's probably less
intuitive than the solutions above (in general, popen isn't
really worth it unless you want to pipe the stdin/stdout
through your program -- which you don't seem to need here?).

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Nov 25 00:36:22 2004
From: autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Robson)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 05:36:22 +0000
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.23.07.09.08.229463@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<zn18e7pm.fsf@telus.net> <30ijkhF31dg9sU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<oehnyvka.fsf@telus.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.25.05.36.21.76065@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:04:03 +0000, Lenard Lindstrom wrote:

> Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> writes:
> 
>> Lenard Lindstrom wrote:
>> > So Delphi is definitely not BASIC-derived. It is BASIC-like in that various
>> > basic dialects, including QBasic, came to support the structured programming
>> > that Pascal was designed from the beginning to teach.
>> 
>> So it would be more accurate to say that those Basic
>> dialects are, in those respects, Pascal-like...
>> 
> By saying Delphi is BASIC-like I just mean that many languages have come
> to resemble each, having adopted many of the same features. But it was
> definitely Basic that did most of the adopting. So yes, more precisely,
> Basic has become more Pascal-like. I was just giving the patent applicants
> a minor benefit of a doubt.

I believe the author of .NET is the bloke that designed Turbo Pascal, so
it's hardly surprising :)



From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 21:20:41 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 00:20:41 -0200
Subject: Idiom for default values when unpacking a tuple
In-Reply-To: <l6qmd.34062$Zr3.23130@fe1.texas.rr.com>
References: <l6qmd.34062$Zr3.23130@fe1.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041117182070ed1931@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:42:57 GMT, Paul McGuire
<ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to manage some configuration data in a list of tuples, and I
> unpack the values with something like this:
> 
> configList = [
>     ("A",1,2,3),
>     ("F",1,3,4),
>     ("X",2,3,4),
>     ("T",1,5,4),
>     ("W",6,3,4),
>     ("L",1,3,8),
>     ]
> for data in configList:
>     name,a,b,c = data
>     ... do something with a,b, and c
> 
> Now I would like to add a special fourth config value to "T":
>     ("T",1,5,4,0.005),
> 
> and I would like to avoid having to put 0's or None's in all of the others.
> Is there a clean Python idiom for unpacking a tuple so that any unassigned
> target values get a default, or None, as in:
> 
>     tup = (1,2)
>     a,b,c = tup
> 
> gives a = 1, b = 2, and c = None.
> 
> I've tried creating a padUnpack class, but things aren't quite clicking...
> 
> TIA,
> -- Paul

How about having a iterator function that is guaranteed to always
return a fixed number of elements, regardless of the size of the
sequence? I've checked it, and it does not exist in itertools.
Something like this (simple-minded, just a proof of concept, and
highly optimizable in at least a hundred different ways :-):

def iterfixed(seq, times, defaultitem=None):
    for i in range(times):
        if i < len(seq):
            yield seq[i]
        else:
            yield defaultitem

To unpack a tuple using it, it's simply a matter to use it like this:

>>> tuple(iterfixed((1,2,3,4), 3))
(1, 2, 3)
>>> tuple(iterfixed((1,2,3,4), 6))
(1, 2, 3, 4, None, None)

In fact, if you *are* doing tuple unpacking, *you don't have to build
the tuple*. You can simply do it like this:

>>> a,b,c = iterfixed((1,2,3,4), 3)
>>> a,b,c
(1, 2, 3)
>>> a,b,c,d,e,f = iterfixed((1,2,3,4), 6)
>>> a,b,c,d,e,f
(1, 2, 3, 4, None, None)

The only catch is that, if you have only one parameter, then all you
will get is the generator itself. But that's a corner case, and not
the intended use anyway.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From glc at well.com  Thu Nov  4 09:42:00 2004
From: glc at well.com (Greg Chapman)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 14:42:00 GMT
Subject: Calling python interpreter from a thread created in C
References: <dwKhd.29147$k4.563552@news1.nokia.com>
Message-ID: <hgfko0hfq6rg90r3u1etje2kp61d9vmnnv@4ax.com>

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 11:50:33 GMT, Jarppe <jarppe_remove_this_ at gmail.com> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>What should I do to be able to call Pyhton interpreter from a posix 
>thread that is created in C?
>
>I have a C-library that creates a thread and then makes callbacks to 
>user supplied function from that threads context. I'm writing a wrapper 
>for this library and I need to call python interpreter from that callback.
>
>I'm using Python 2.3 in Linux.
>
>Any help appreciated.

First, you need to ensure that Python is ready for threading.  From the
application's main thread, call PyEval_InitThreads (if this has already been
called, it simply returns.  But if this is the first call, it assumes it is
being called on the application's main thread, so you don't want to call this on
your callback thread).

Then, in your thread's callback, call PyGILState_Ensure before accessing any
part of the Python API.  When you're done working with python, call
PyGILState_Release.  See the documentation and example here:

http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/api/threads.html

(Note that before the example of using PyGILState_Ensure, the text refers to
needing an interpreter state.  This text is left over from versions before
PyGILState was introduced.  Just do what the example shows and you shouldn't
have a problem.)

---
Greg Chapman




From unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom  Mon Nov 22 03:10:44 2004
From: unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom (Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non triviale en fuite perpétuelle.)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:10:44 +0100
Subject: [Beginner] delete items of [] also from memory
References: <cns50t$5ip$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <41a1a1da$0$8190$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !

But...  And if you try ?




From sw at wordtech-software.com  Wed Nov 10 16:09:37 2004
From: sw at wordtech-software.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:09:37 -0500
Subject: Update on PyQt-Mac forthcoming
Message-ID: <41928391.2000302@wordtech-software.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

A major bug with my build of PyQt-Mac has been brought to my
attention--I built Qt with static libraries, but PyQt looks for shared
libraries. This will necessitate a rebuild of everything, which will
take some time. I will have the new version ready to go in a few days.

- --
Kevin Walzer, PhD
WordTech Software--Open Source Applications and Packages for OS X
http://www.wordtech-software.com
http://www.smallbizmac.com
http://www.kevin-walzer.com
mailto:sw at wordtech-software.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFBkoOQJmdQs+6YVcoRAgaeAJ9577baJ1Ce0xTJsL2FuS1KF70aUQCfcD1j
lf203fGgac1o8dWvSGpcTiA=
=25yq
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sat Nov 13 19:34:29 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 16:34:29 -0800
Subject: Creating combination of sequences
In-Reply-To: <7dc80c2.0411131026.c4cf2e@posting.google.com>
References: <7dc80c2.0411131026.c4cf2e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4196bb2a$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Minho Chae wrote:
> I'm trying to create combinations of sequences.
> 
> For example, if the sequence is 'acgt' and the length is 8,
> then I would like to have 4^8 results such as
> 'aaaaaaaa', 'aaaaaaac', 'aaaaaaag', 'aaaaaaat', ... 'tttttttt'
> 
> Is there an easy way doing this?

You are basically counting in base 4 here.

     import array

     def generate(digits='acgt', length=8):
         base = len(digits)
         positions = range(length)
         positions.reverse()
         r = array.array('c', digits[0] * length)
         for number in range(base**length):
             for digit in positions:
		number, v = divmod(number, base)
                 r[digit] = digits[v]
             yield r.tostring()

     for result in generate('ab', 2):
         print result


-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From peter at somewhere.com  Fri Nov 19 06:38:24 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:38:24 +0100
Subject: Python client lib for PostgreSQL8
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6545.1100786147.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cni6e4$dl9$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<mailman.6545.1100786147.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cnkm4m$ou2$1@swifty.westend.com>

Gerhard Haering schrieb:
> On Thu, Nov 18, 2004 at 01:58:48PM +0100, Peter Maas wrote:
> 
>>I just tried to connect to a PostgreSQL8 beta2 database server with
>>pyPgSQL 2.4 and got a libpq.DatabaseError telling "Ivalid format for
>>PgVersion construction".
[...]
> Attached is a quick, completely untested try. If it doesn't work like this, you
> should get the idea how to make it work ;-)

Thanks, Gerhard, but it doesn't work.

The error is due to pgversion.c/parseToken(). Parsing the vstr info
into major, minor, patch doesn't work. The version string from
"SELECT version();" is

PostgreSQL 8.0.0beta4 on ...

parseToken() handles beta versions too restrictive allowing only ...b4
instead of ...beta4. I have relaxed this condition by replacing the line

     *result = strtol(token, &last, 0);

by

     *result = strtol(token, &last, 0);
     return (errno != 0);

thus allowing everything after the patch number. This is perhaps
too permissive but my test script with a simple SELECT statement
works now.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From mesteve_bpleaseremovethis at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 17 22:06:44 2004
From: mesteve_bpleaseremovethis at hotmail.com (StvB)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 03:06:44 GMT
Subject: TreeNode  End of Editing Event
References: <rtdmd.44537$QJ3.18312@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <8lUmd.18937$zx1.3141@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>

Here's where I loused up: I didn't continue reading the documentation 
carefully.

You don't use GetItemText().  Instead, in either a BEGIN_LABEL_EDIT event, 
or a END_LABEL_EDIT  (which I need to use) event, you use:  GetLabel()

--------------
wxTreeEvent::GetLabel
const wxString& GetLabel() const

returns the label if the event was a begin or end edit label event.

-------------


"StvB" <mesteve_bpleaseremovethis at hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:rtdmd.44537$QJ3.18312 at newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> Hi,
>  I just started implementing adding a new node to an existing tree.
>
> In these statements, I add the node itself and  attach the
>        "end of editing" event handler to the event
> --------
> id = self.tree.AppendItem(self.root,'New Item Node',-1,-1)
> EVT_TREE_END_LABEL_EDIT(self.tree, treeID, self.OnEndEdit)
> ---------
> But when I respond to the EVT_TREE_END_LABEL_EDIT event, I don't get the 
> new label when you change it:
>
> The event handler:
> -------------
>  def OnEndEdit(self,event):
>        item=event.GetItem()
>        s = self.tree.GetItemText(item)  # for debugging
>
> ------------
>
> The 's' variable shows the original label (set above) which is 'New Item 
> Node'.  Should it not show the new text after entering and then press 
> Enter key?
>
>
> Am I going about this the wrong way?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 




From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov  9 19:03:49 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 00:03:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Problems with user input
References: <pan.2004.11.09.22.54.37.120023@web.de>
	<4191535c$0$9261$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<pan.2004.11.09.23.51.57.631585@web.de>
Message-ID: <loom.20041110T005614-312@post.gmane.org>

Florian Wilhelm <Florian.Wilhelm <at> web.de> writes:
> 
> import sys
> 
> print "Input: (y/N) ",
> input = sys.stdin.read(1)
> print "Hello World"
> print "Your input:", input
> 
> produces this output...
> 
> Input: (y/N) y
>  Hello World
> Your input: y
> 
> Can somebody explain why the whitespace char appears
> in front of "Hello World"???

This is the behavior of the print statement.  For example:

>>> print "X", sys.stdin.read(1), "Y"
X1
 1 Y

Every comma between two expressions in the print statement adds a space.  As you
can see from the code above, the space isn't inserted until after the following
expression (sys.stdin.read(1)) is executed, and hence I get the space from the
print statement following the newline I inserted when I pressed <ENTER> after
typing 1.

If instead, you use sys.stdout.write, you get:

>>> def f():
...     sys.stdout.write("X%s" % sys.stdin.read(1))
...     sys.stdout.write("Y\n")
...
>>> f()
1
X1Y

sys.stdout.write doesn't insert spaces (unless you put spaces in the strings). 
In general, if you want a particular format, you should use sys.stdout.write
instead of print, since the print statement has a number of such idiosyncracies.

Steve





From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Wed Nov 10 13:48:09 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:48:09 -0800
Subject: ZIP files
In-Reply-To: <808f000f.0411100805.7bff7e5d@posting.google.com>
References: <808f000f.0411100805.7bff7e5d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <419275a5$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Oriana wrote:
> I'm beginning to use the zipfile module in Python and I'm confused
> about something. I am trying to extract certain files from one zip and
> copy them into another one. This is the code I?ve got so far:
     [copied by writing to temporary files]

> So far, this code does the work, but I think it's to much work for
> just copying entire files?Is there any other way to do this????

How about a function like:

     import os.path, zipfile

     def copy_zip(source_name, dest_name, extensions):
         source = zipfile.ZipFile(source_name, 'r')
         dest = zipfile.ZipFile(dest_name, 'w', zipfile.ZIP_DEFLATED)
         for name in source.namelist():
             if os.path.splitext(name)[1].lower() in extensions:
                 contents = source.read(name)
                 dest.writestr(name, contents)
         dest.close()
         source.close()

     copy_zip('source.zip', 'dest.zip', {'.c':1, '.h':1, '.exe':1})

If this does the trick for you, try to figure out why you didn't
find "writestr" in the zipfile document.  Let us know how we might
improve the document so that we can save work for the next guy.

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Nov 19 14:41:31 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:41:31 -0600
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <cnlgv2$vc$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<cnlgv2$vc$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <16798.19563.729805.103774@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> My guess is Microsoft hopes to discourage Visual Basic knock-offs.  Claim
    >> 2 clearly seems to restrict the scope to BASIC.

    Neal> Doesn't Python (along with probably every other language ever
    Neal> invented) display prior art here?

Sure, but maybe there is no such prior art in the BASIC arena.

Skip


From mwm at mired.org  Thu Nov 18 12:58:45 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 11:58:45 -0600
Subject: Rationals?
References: <x73bz7na6r.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<mailman.6526.1100749612.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <x7y8gzkpii.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Tim Peters <tim.peters at gmail.com> writes:

> [Mike Meyer]
>> With the decimals and the unification of int and long coming, it's
>> natural (for me, anyway) to wonder how much interest there is in a
>> rational type.
>
> It is natural to wonder <wink>.
>
>> There are two PEPs (239 and 240), and the Guido rejects them as
>> no one seems interested in doing the work, but points out that the
>> python distribution comes with examples/Demo/classes/Rat.py.
>>
>> I propose - in the spirit of "batteries included" - that Rat.py be
>> cleaned up some (mostly to take advantage of the union of ints and
>> longs)
>
> +0
>
>> and moved into the standard library.
>
> -1
>
>> Any good reasons not to do this?
>
> There's no reason not to clean it up.  But Rat.py belongs where it is
> regardless:  it *is* "a demo", too half-baked for the standard
> library.  There's a better implementation in the Python sandbox:
>
>     http://cvs.sf.net/viewcvs.py/python/python/nondist/sandbox/rational/

Cool. I knew there had to be some out there, but couldn't find one in
either PyPI or the cookbook. I picked on Rat.py because it was what I
found.

> Moshe left that behind going on 4 years ago now, as a prototype for
> PEP 239.  It's also far from being suitable for the standard library: 
> the PEP is more a sketch of an idea than a specification, the PEP
> needs to be accepted, the module needs real documentation, and it
> needs a test suite.

Actually, I don't like the two PEPs. Both include changes to the
language that would surprise programmers and non-programmers as well
as having a negative impact on performance. You should only get a
rational if you specifically ask for a rational.

And I'm aware that any "clean up" means writing real documenation and
a test suite, as well as fixing the code.

> leaky-AAA-cells-wasn't-"batteries-included"'s-intent-ly y'rs  - tim
>
> PS:  If you simply want to *use* a high-powered rational type,
> download gmpy and be happy tonight.

No - it's that rationals are available in a number of other
programming languages I use, and it seems strange that they would be
missing from a language that comes with "batteries included".

And yes, I am willing to do this work. But don't want to bother if
there's no chance of it getting into the standard library. Creating
yet another rational package outisde the standard library is pretty
pointless.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From timr at probo.com  Wed Nov 24 02:19:55 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 23:19:55 -0800
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Ice 2.0 released
References: <ketod.45140$K7.3294@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <ted8q0h19c4disktejd9ur7pdgec0h1hl0@4ax.com>

"Michi Henning" <michi at triodia.com> wrote:
>
>Hi,
>
>we've just released Ice 2.0 with quite a lot of new features:

I'm sure this is a wonderful thing, but your announcement gives absolutely
no clue as to what Ice is or what it is used for.

Please include an executive summary when you make an announcement like
this.

>- new language mappings for Visual Basic and Python
>
>- a new light-weight and super-efficient firewall
>
>- a streaming API that allows you to control the encoding and decoding of
>  objects in arbitrary formats (or the native Ice format)
>
>- dynamic invocation and dispatch interfaces, so you can write generic
>  clients and server that do not require compile-time type knowledge
>
>- new chapters in the documentation for the new features
>
>- numerous other improvements and bug fixes
>
>See http://www.zeroc.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=987
>for more info.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Nov 16 12:59:01 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:59:01 -0800
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <1gncdvv.1y2msbz1yc1gaeN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.6409.1100591151.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gncdvv.1y2msbz1yc1gaeN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041116085317.F96A.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:
> 
> Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
> 
> > > but the point is whether, if and when 'optional static typing' _syntax_
> > > gets it, it will have this semantics or that of inserting a lot of
> > > typechecks... people can do typecheks or adaptation now, and neither
> > > will go away -- but which, if either, should syntax facilitate?  That,
> > > as I see it, is key.
> > 
> > I guess it all depends.
> > "In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess."
> > "Explicit is better than implicit."
> > 
> > With the requisite zens quoted, I'd say that there should be an explicit
> > way to do both, because guessing which one (but not both) is necessarily
> > the wrong thing to do.
> 
> Since the actual need for type-checking is extremely rare, I contend it
> should not _at all_ be a candidate for a syntax to facilitate it.  Since
> the actual need for adaptation is much wider, I contend it's the one
> obvious choice for the "nice syntax" if any.

Sounds reasonable, but there will be a group of people who will beg and
plead for type checking, because they want "static type checking on
function call and return".


> > With that said, type-based dispatch, checking and adaptation are
> > provided by decorators, which are explicit.  They are not a syntax
> > per-se, but they will get the job done in the mean time (if placing type
> > checking and adaptations in the function body is not sufficient).
> 
> Type checking is ugly, so it's quite fitting that it be implemented in
> ugly ways -- by boilerplate or user-coded splats.  Adaptation is
> beautiful, and beautiful is better than ugly (see, I can quote the zen
> of Python too...), so it should have nice syntax (<var> 'as' <itf>).

Adaptation is quite nifty, but being that I am a rare user of either, it
probably isn't worth the effort to attempt to convince me that
adaptation is the one true way, especially considering that I've got
little to no pull in python-dev.


> Type-based dispatch is a little bit of a mess to implement with
> decorators, IMHO.  Consider the hypothetical code...:
> 
> class A(object):
>   @ dispatch(int)
>   def foo(x): ...
> 
>   @ dispatch(float)
>   def foo(x): ...
> 
> class B(object):
>   @ dispatch(int)
>   def foo(x): ...
> 
>   @ dispatch(str)
>   def foo(x): ...
> 
> Sure, dispatch can be a H**2OF which returns a dispatching-foo and
> stashes somewhere a (say) foo__int, foo__float or whatever, but the
> problem is, _WHAT_ 'somewhere'.  dispatch isn't told what class body
> it's being called from, so it can't easily stash stuff in the obvious
> place, the class dictionary being built.  Attributes of the
> dispatching-foo don't seem good, because of the problem of getting at
> the right previously-returned dispatching-foo object on successive calls
> of dispatch from within the same class body (but not from separate class
> bodies).   Maybe some peek-into-the-stack black magic or custom
> metaclass can help, but it does seem a little bit of a mess, unless I'm
> overlooking something obvious.  If the implementation is hard to
> explain, it's a bad idea...

It can be a mess, which is one reason why I haven't been using it, and
generally don't use it.  But you know those C/C++ guys who are all like
"hey, where's my polymorphism?"

I agree that it would be best of one could place everything into the
class dict without frame hacks, but for simplicity in implementation's
sake, I would stick with a dispatch-factory and jam all of the requisite
dispatch information into the closure (or instance) that is generated.
Sure, you need to say 'hey, I'm going to do type-based dispatch here'
at the beginning of your desired non-overlapping namespaces, but it is
explicit what one would want in such a case.  Heck, with a properly
defined metaclass or class decorator, a post-decoration pass could be
done to extract all of the dispatches and place them into foo__int, etc.

@ multi_dispatch_to_methods
class A(object):
  dispatch = dispatch_factory()
  
  @ dispatch(int)
  def foo(x): ...

  @ dispatch(float)
  def foo(x): ...


It may have a couple warts, but it is implementable today.

 - Josiah



From lbates at syscononline.com  Wed Nov  3 15:56:31 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 14:56:31 -0600
Subject: printer delusion
In-Reply-To: <9dbid.257879$35.12024814@news4.tin.it>
References: <9dbid.257879$35.12024814@news4.tin.it>
Message-ID: <Q7udndLPNc1k2BTcRVn-gg@comcast.com>

Mario,

When you are new to something you may want to consider
going slow about criticism.  Quite often what you want
exists and you are unaware of it at the beginning.

wxWindows has good support for printers and is cross platform.

Specifically take a look at wxPython.lib.printout.  I use
PrintTable to do my table-style output quite a lot.  It
provides you with Print Preview, scaling, etc. with little
effort.

or if you prefer

You can use ReportLab to produce .PDF output files.
With this you have fine-grained output capabilities and
get electronic cross-platform files which for some
applications is a real benefit (e.g web projects).

Hope information helps.

Regards,
Larry Bates

Mario wrote:
> Hello, I am a new Python entusiast, I am studing it since some weeks and I
> think it's a great language and I was very happy with it, but when I came to
> make a printer routine I really got demotivated by the difficulty, why does
> Python covers easily  the most complicated tasks and on the printer there is
> this big hole? I was looking on the web, on newsgroups, to find some good
> solution but I couldn't believe that there is this big lack on the printers,
> as much I was happily surprised to find that Python handles easily diffucult
> tasks, I had a big delusion to find out the lacks of Python on the print
> problem, which is very important for me.
> 
> I really wish that soon will come out some implementation on the Python
> native package to handle printing on the various platforms.
> 
> I saw that the most easy thing was to write a txt file and shell "notepad /p
> filename" to print the data, (what a rude thing! imho), but that is not
> enough cause I need to eloborate datas and print styled reports that I used
> to code directly inside VB, but now I can't do it or is some cliffhanger
> task.
> 
> I started to work also for unix platforms and I thought that Python was the
> perfect language to write multiplatforms programs, I was so entusiast about
> it that I couldn't believe that I had to go in that problem now.
> 
> I really would appreciate that the developers will develope soon a global
> print function that one can use inside the code, that can use styled texts
> and graphics and then the interpreter will care about the os and printers.
> 
> Bye and thanks for any suggestion, if any.
> 
> Mario
> 
> PS: Was all too good to be true :P lol
> 
> 
1


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Mon Nov 15 06:40:40 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:40:40 +0100
Subject: simple recursion help
References: <Gpyed.320058$bp1.6526@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<VUyed.320061$bp1.273357@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<mailman.5375.1098565018.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm4uqv.nmgjbj1vt0spjN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0410231916.450f67d@posting.google.com>
	<a5uxtxctfpx7.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
	<8ef9bea6.0411150312.a2bdc5d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ngwyoifzemdc.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Hung Jung Lu (2004-11-15 12:12 +0100)
> Thorsten Kampe <thorsten at thorstenkampe.de> wrote:
>> * Hung Jung Lu (2004-10-24 04:16 +0100)
>>> (1) "Variation" is the same as "permutation".
>> 
>> Sorry, no.
> 
> Sorry, yes. 
> 
> Just to add some more information, see also:
> 
> (1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combinatorics
> 
> (2) Download user manuals from any major scientific calculator maker
> (HP, Casio, Texas Instruments, Sharp, etc.), and you will find them
> all using the term "permutation" instead of "variation". E.g.:
> 
> http://www.hp.com/calculators/docs/guides/33sProbFact.pdf
> 
> You can promote your preferred term ("variation") as much as you want,
> but to ignore the fact that the majority of people use the term
> "permutation" is a bit strange, to say the least.

It's not "my" preferred term. This guy Guido van Rossum (creator of
the Python language and Benevolent Dictator for Life) uses permutation
in the same sense:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/indentation.html .

And it really isn't possible to use one word (permutation) in one
field (combinatorics) with two totally distinct meanings. If you don't
like "variation" then call it string or "unordered combinations" or
whatever. But please not "permutation". You will confuse everyone
including yourself.

Thorsten


From iketo2 at netscape.net  Sun Nov  7 11:11:53 2004
From: iketo2 at netscape.net (Isaac To)
Date: 08 Nov 2004 00:11:53 +0800
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5992.1099726289.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<jccro09uusa2pfr7qbhjpcsv6aifjsafgh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <87ekj5fxkm.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> writes:

    Tim> It is fabulous that you are able to enumerate your list of
    Tim> requirements so completely.  I'm quite serious; many people
    Tim> embark on even complicated projects without a clear
    Tim> understanding of the tradeoffs they will encounter.

    Tim> However, given that set of needs, why would you mess with an
    Tim> "exotic" language at all?  Why wouldn't you just write
    Tim> straight to the metal in C++ or C?  -- - Tim Roberts,
    Tim> timr at probo.com Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

It is quite possible that the list of features, requirements, etc.,
are all known only after the Python prototype show that it worked.
Very few people (except those who are really very proficient in C++)
would like to write prototypes in such static languages, but once the
prototype show what is needed, and the prototype becomes part of the
production system, one have to step by step turn it back to C++.

Regards,
Isaac.


From faassen at infrae.com  Mon Nov 15 10:19:40 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:19:40 +0100
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6377.1100525270.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>	<boKdncuh1ZBxbgrcRVn-gA@giganews.com>
	<L0Tld.2114$nj.1155@lakeread01>
	<mailman.6377.1100525270.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4198C90C.8080003@infrae.com>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:41:13 -0500, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> 
>>You managed to get it to run? I found the whole load opaque beyond
>>belief, and removed it after an hour's examination.
> 
> 
> From time to time, I download Zope, try it a little bit, and uninstall
> it. Perhaps I am too dumb for it (which may be the case) :-( ... but I
> somehow feel that there is a problem, for I am not alone in this
> feeling. For me, Zope lacks Python's inherent clarity; it seems that
> it requires a 'mental mode' of its own. Many things are not obvious,
> in the way they normally are when I am working with Python. This
> places a lot of burden on the documentation, which - as said elsewhere
> - is confusing. It's a shame.

I agree that this is the case (and I've been working with Zope for many 
years). Zope 2 is many ways rather unpythonic. There's a lot of stuff 
that could be a lot more clear and Pythonic.

On the other hand, Zope 2 suffers like any large framework does. While 
they (hopefully) offer a lot of power, it is inevitable that parts of a 
framework are not ideal, and it's also inevitable you have to invest 
time on how to use it effectively. So in part I think this lack of 
clarity is inherent to what it tries to be.

Zope 3 tries, and in most part succeeds, to be a lot more Pythonic than 
Zope 2. That should help in part. Zope 3 is of course a large framework 
as well -- it'll be inherently take time to get into it and use it 
effectively. Nonetheless, Zope 3 also tries very hard through its 
component architecture to be a framework that is a lot *easier* to 
integrate with than Zope 2 ever was.

Regards,

Martijn


From roy at panix.com  Mon Nov 22 07:47:54 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 07:47:54 -0500
Subject: Identifying exceptions that can be raised
References: <cVdnd.7986$tS4.4873@trndny09>
	<mailman.6579.1100837821.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<6Rknd.6671$%M4.4203@trndny08>
	<cnmcek$rju$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<JQNnd.2125$hJ6.1416@trndny01>
	<cnrli6$j1o$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <roy-E384F5.07475422112004@reader1.panix.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> For example, the other day I discovered that if you attempt
> to read or write from/to a closed file, you don't get what
> you might expect (an IOError or an OSError), but in fact
> you get a ValueError.  Writing unit tests was what led to
> this discovery.  (Perhaps it's actually documented... I don't
> know and didn't bother looking.)

What you are describing is essentially black-box testing.  It may be a 
valid procedure for QA purposes, but it's hardly a reasonable way to 
write a program.  Actually, it's worse than black-box testing.  
Black-box testing says you should design your tests based only on the 
documentation (functional spec, whatever) without looking at the source 
code.  You're saying you should write the code without even looking at 
the documentation.

I'm a big fan of test-driven development, but not to the extent that I 
feel I can ignore reading the documentation to see how something is 
supposed to work.  It took me about 15 seconds to find the page in the 
library reference for file objects, where I immediately found:

---------
close()
 Close the file. A closed file cannot be read or written any more.  Any 
operation which requires that the file be open will raise a  ValueError 
after the file has been closed. Calling  close() more than once is 
allowed.
---------

Computer Science is not an experimental science.  In the old days of 
biology, if I wanted to know what a certain gene did, I made my best 
guess and designed an experiment to prove or disprove my theory.  Repeat 
as long as the funding holds out.  These days, I pop the DNA into a 
sequencing machine and read the source code.  We may not fully 
understand the language the program is written in, but it sure beats 
poking at the thing with a stick and seeing what happens.


From syd.diamond at gmail.com  Wed Nov  3 11:22:24 2004
From: syd.diamond at gmail.com (syd)
Date: 3 Nov 2004 08:22:24 -0800
Subject: general class functions
References: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>
	<kj9eo0hkjem9pbj3pvdbpea6gpl06ighsj@4ax.com>
	<a76ba315.0411021009.46b06459@posting.google.com>
	<4187d1b6$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<5tugo0h6eod98l4l01gau1risdogl58i6v@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a76ba315.0411030822.7e48d308@posting.google.com>

Andrea Griffini <agriff at tin.it> wrote in message

> Would it be worse or better to make Library a new-style
> class, using __getattribute__ instead of __getattr__ and
> defaulting to object.__getattribute__(self,name) in the
> "else" part ?

Can you elaborate here, please?  I'm not sure I understand what you mean.


From mustafademirhan at gmail.com  Fri Nov 19 16:01:05 2004
From: mustafademirhan at gmail.com (mustafademirhan at gmail.com)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 13:01:05 -0800
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <3073pnF2rf1v9U1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<cnlgv2$vc$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6616.1100893198.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3073pnF2rf1v9U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1100898065.354777.219400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

But it is approved :(

Peter Maas wrote:
> Skip Montanaro schrieb:
> >     >> My guess is Microsoft hopes to discourage Visual Basic
knock-offs.  Claim
> >     >> 2 clearly seems to restrict the scope to BASIC.
> >
> >     Neal> Doesn't Python (along with probably every other language
ever
> >     Neal> invented) display prior art here?
> >
> > Sure, but maybe there is no such prior art in the BASIC arena.
>
> Isnot is semantically equivalent to the inequality operator which is
> some hundred years old. I doubt that this can be an approved patent,
> even under the liberal patent US laws.
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
> E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
> -------------------------------------------------------------------



From jbellis at gmail.com  Mon Nov  8 08:22:50 2004
From: jbellis at gmail.com (Jonathan  Ellis)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 05:22:50 -0800
Subject: Py2exe help for beginner
In-Reply-To: <51908f36.0411080408.2772f6c4@posting.google.com>
References: <51908f36.0411080408.2772f6c4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1099920170.010254.88290@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

PeterFI wrote:

> my setup.py looks like this
>
> from distutils.core import setup
> import glob,os,sys
> import py2exe
>
>
> setup(name='MyIterator',
>       version='0.2',
>       author='P.P',
>       py_modules=["Iterator"])
>
> it runs nicely but no exe is created? What am I missing?
You're missing a "windows=" or "console=" argument.

-Jonathan



From claird at lairds.us  Fri Nov  5 14:08:06 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 19:08:06 GMT
Subject: ?? Modules for GPIB and Ethernet ??
References: <21240387.0411041337.7b17172b@posting.google.com>
	<0-GdnfBAPrZPXBfcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
	<21240387.0411050533.4d145e2a@posting.google.com>
	<roy-F071F5.08483605112004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <t4vs52-ib9.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <roy-F071F5.08483605112004 at reader1.panix.com>,
Roy Smith  <roy at panix.com> wrote:
>In article <21240387.0411050533.4d145e2a at posting.google.com>,
> justinhsia at yahoo.com (Chaser) wrote:
>
>> I have an equipment that's controlled through ethernet.  (The control
>> program is currently written in C++.)  I guess my really difficulty
>> is, how do I send commmands to that devise through ethernet using
>> Python?
>
>You havn't given enough information to give a good answer, but I'll take 
>a shot.
>
>First, you need to know what kind of protocol your device talks.  It's 
>virtually certain that the device implements some kind of custom 
>application-level protocol on top of some standard transport layer such 
>as TCP/IP.  Assuming that's the case, you need to:
>
>1) Find the documentation for the application-level protocol it talks.
>
>2) Find out the IP address (or hostname) of the device.
>
>From within Python, you will need to create a socket, connect the socket 
>to your device using the connect() method, and then use the send() and 
>recv() methods to talk to the device.  You'll need to implement the 
>application-layer protocol yourself.
>
>The details of how to use sockets in Python (i.e. connect(), send(), 
>recv(), etc) are documented in "7.2 socket -- Low-level networking 
>interface" of the Python Library Reference.  To really understand what 
>section 7.2 is talking about, however, you need to have a general feel 
>for how network communication works in general.  Fortunately, the 
>introduction to section 7.2 contains some pointers to some good general 
>reference books.

I'll add that what you're attempting might be essentially impossible,
or extremely easy, or anything in between.  Hardware vendors vary
WIDELY in the "hackability" of what they sell.

It might be worth calling in one of us with experience in networking
and physical devices for at least a small amount of initial consulta-
tion.  It has the potential to save you months (!  yes, I've seen it
take that long to understand a vendor sufficiently well to realize
that a problem has an easy answer).


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Nov  1 02:13:18 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 00:13:18 -0700
Subject: List problem
In-Reply-To: <41858eaa.1299498379@news.oz.net>
References: <1gmjqh9.oialil1r1xwffN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41858eaa.1299498379@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <20041101001315.0C44.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>  delsome_br
>  3.39048024526
>  3.63548729364
>  3.6326486655
>  delsome_am
>  6.40547292869
>  6.32403355062
>  6.21752171923

FYI: list comprehensions in 2.4 are significantly faster than list
comprehensions in 2.3, which is likely where a large portion of your
difference is coming from.

I wasn't sure that I believed your statements in regards to Python's
cache performance, so I thought I'd give it a look...

Python 2.3.2 (#49, Oct  2 2003, 20:02:00) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> a = range(1000000)
>>> import time
>>> def f(a):
...     t = time.time()
...     for i in a:
...             pass
...     return time.time()-t
...
>>> for i in xrange(10):
...     print f(a),
...
0.421999931335 0.421000003815 0.421999931335 0.422000169754 0.421999931335 0.437
99996376 0.421000003815 0.421999931335 0.43799996376 0.406000137329
>>> import random
>>> random.shuffle(a)
>>> for i in xrange(10):
...     print f(a),
...
0.594000101089 0.59299993515 0.610000133514 0.608999967575 0.608999967575 0.5940
00101089 0.593999862671 0.608999967575 0.594000101089 0.593999862671
>>> a.sort()
>>> for i in xrange(10):
...     print f(a),
...
0.421999931335 0.421999931335 0.421999931335 0.422000169754 0.43700003624 0.4219
99931335 0.421999931335 0.421999931335 0.422000169754 0.43700003624


Looks to be an almost 50% slowdown on my dual celeron 400mhz machine
(128kb cache).  Very interesting, I would have never have expected as
much (due to the amount of overhead of Python data structures, I
believed it was generally a wash).

 - Josiah



From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sun Nov  7 20:17:49 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 17:17:49 -0800
Subject: How come wxPython isn't in the standard library?
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org><1099858070.544710.146320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com><1099858260.250679.61490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.6096.1099870240.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <viu262-5uu.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

James Stroud wrote:
[Tale of RPM hell, Linux library version hell elided]
>
> Lets try to see things with naieve eyes: how do we think an END USER
> with few administrative priveleges but operating system choices might
> respond to a situation like this? Right! He'll use M$
> windows--guaranteed.

A lot of what you experienced is due to the design and implementation
of Windows.   Microsoft puts a lot of effort into binary backwards
compatibility. It is why only one Python installer needs to be made
and can support every version of Windows since Win 95.

In the Linux world, very little effort is put into binary backwards
compatibility for libraries, because things can just be recompiled.
You were a victim of that.

But it isn't Python's place to try to fix that.  Recognising it as
a problem, the number one feature of almost every new Linux distro
is rescuing users from packaging and versioning issues.  I'll
leave it up to your judgement as to whether any succeeded.

> Now I think we understand why graphics libraries might have a tough
> time making it into a standard distro. Personally, as an end user who
> only wants to use a program and not re-compile his kernel and such, I
> vote for tweaking out tkinter and making Tcl/Tk/blt/etc. part of the
> standard distro with that 18 mb otherwise required for wxPython (as
> cool as wx might be). One installer, wham-bam-program.

The reason why tkinter/Tk doesn't have such library issues is because
it doesn't use many libraries under the hood.  It draws the widgets
itself, has less interoperability with printing, drag and drop,
internationalization, online help, inter-process communication, clipboard,
themes, preferences etc.  As such it is perfect for simpler apps
and a good reason for being in the standard lib.

But if you want to "tweak out" tkinter so it did all that stuff, you'd
be re-implementing all those libraries (a considerable amount of work)
or using them, bringing everything back to square one!

Roger 




From mj.clift at virgin.net  Tue Nov 16 11:52:49 2004
From: mj.clift at virgin.net (Malcolm Clift)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 08:52:49 -0800
Subject: range and wx co - ords
References: <a86fb13f.0411081407.3a382a6b@posting.google.com>
	<a86fb13f.0411091707.11be7433@posting.google.com>
	<4191dc09.80425295@news.oz.net>
	<a86fb13f.0411100936.7ce01770@posting.google.com>
	<a86fb13f.0411140445.40b2d44c@posting.google.com>
	<41985e17.97850521@news.oz.net>
	<a86fb13f.0411150843.3cd42104@posting.google.com>
	<4199157f.144802274@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <a86fb13f.0411160852.6f2c5754@posting.google.com>

Hi Bengt,

> This isn't homework, is it? ;-)

If it was I wouldn't feel so dumb for not knowing half of this stuff.
No, I'm just a late starter with an idea for a program.

Thankyou for your suggestion of taking the OO approach. I think that
you are right and I need to go away and work this out. It was just
that I was trying to find a simple / basic way just to get the thing
up and running before refining it.

The text will eventually come from a generated file, but at the moment
I haven't hooked up the part that does the generating with the
display. At the moment I'm just throwing a little bit of text in just
above the display part of the code.

>Why don't you post what you have working so far?...I will learn
something ;-)

Bengt, I really doubt there is anything I can teach you about python /
wx. It is kind of you to suggest otherwise :  ) At the present time I
have basically cobbled together the dragImage demo. The 'page' is just
an A4 bmp. That code came from looking at how the cards are displayed
in the demo. To this I have just added some static text ( the stuff
you've helped me to word wrap). So I end up with a so called draggable
'page' with text. To add more pages I pin the bmps on to an empty bmp
so that they drag as one whole. As I said in the other post, one page
is ok, but adding more slows things down a lot. As this is just a mess
around with the DragImage demo I presume that the bmps are buffered,
but as I write, I think that I may have to look into this, as perhaps
pinning 'pages' onto a wx.EmptyBitmap affect things somehow. That or
that with just a few extra  pages the bmp becomes massive.

If you or anyone else is interested I will of course post it.

All the best,

Malcolm


From saravanan.d at siemens.com  Mon Nov 22 06:05:01 2004
From: saravanan.d at siemens.com (Saravanan D)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:35:01 +0530
Subject: Detecting Handle Leaks
Message-ID: <cnsh9q$shk$2@news.mch.sbs.de>

Hello,

I have python module which uses C++ extension modules.  If I run the Python
Module for a long time in an windows environment, Perfmon shows handle leaks
in Python.exe.  Is there any way to detect it ?

Thanks in Advance.

Saravanan D




From niels_bohr at uol.com.br  Sun Nov  7 03:18:25 2004
From: niels_bohr at uol.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio?= Mendes)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 06:18:25 -0200
Subject: PEP new assert idiom
In-Reply-To: <1gmvgit.vzj5g4hv9dsrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmurvv.1meude125h1zrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6027.1099792216.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmvgit.vzj5g4hv9dsrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1099815505.15924.9.camel@localhost.localdomain>

> So follow PEP 8's recommendation instead:
> 
> assert (
>    exp1 and
>    exp2 and
>    ...
>    expn
>    ), 'Errormsg'
> 
I didn't know this would work for 'and/or' operators (even I've read the
style guide PEP!), sorry. It's not super beautiful, but I could live
happy with that :)

> I don't see the parentheses (which clarify the syntax issue you
> mentioned in your first post) and 'and' as any uglier than the commas.
> And having commas mean line continuation is out of the question.

I never said that commas should mean line continuation (as a backslash).
It CAN be used as implicit line continuations in lot cases, (like
function arguments, for instance. This would be just one more case.

Cheers,
Fabio


From andrea.valle at unito.it  Mon Nov  8 04:01:22 2004
From: andrea.valle at unito.it (andrea valle)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 10:01:22 +0100
Subject: How come wxPython isn't in the standard library?
In-Reply-To: <viu262-5uu.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org><1099858070.544710.146320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com><1099858260.250679.61490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.6096.1099870240.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<viu262-5uu.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <C30AFDC9-3164-11D9-9F03-0003939C968C@unito.it>

Just  2cents about the supposed wx supremacy.

I started a project of an interface to draw graphs (vertices+edges) and 
I lost a lot of time with wx. I started with wx because many people 
seem to be it's better (and I effectively appreciated a lot many of its 
features).
Anycase, actually the wx ogl classes are in phase of development and to 
draw on the screen is uselessly complicated with Paint. I solved 
elegantly my problem with Tkinter's Canvas and with its very powerful 
system of tags.
I'm waiting for a wxpython equivalent of Canvas.

Best

-a-



Andrea Valle
Laboratorio multimediale "G. Quazza"
Facolt? di Scienze della Formazione
Universit? degli Studi di Torino
andrea.valle at unito.it


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 15 03:11:17 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 08:11:17 GMT
Subject: Python 2.4: Why only assignments to None are forbiden?
References: <4195190f@pfaff2.ethz.ch> <10pc53ff798bhaa@news.supernews.com>
	<41962ca5.363205101@news.oz.net>
	<mailman.6365.1100482500.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <419862ea.99085647@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:35:12 -0600, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:

>Bengt Richter wrote:
>> Since this is a compile-time issue , perhaps it is time to consider
>> a pragma statement as a framework for telling python pre-runtime things
>> like optimization info? E.g., pragma could send in-context meta-info
>> to various python infrastructure components using python method call syntax
>> which the compiler could recognize in the token stream and compile and
>> execute in its working environment right then. So e.g.,
>> 
>>     pragma compiler.override(len=True, cmp=False)
>
>There's a recipe for doing something very similar to this with the 
>current Python:
>
>http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/277940
>
Yes, that's a nice clever decorator thing for certain kinds of optimization
(by Raymond Hettinger), but if file='something' were disallowed, and you
wanted to do it in a function, I don't think a decorator would get
control early enough to do anything about it, even if there were a hook
for unlocking the bindability of file. But yes, in general, I can see why you
were reminded ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Nov 11 17:53:51 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:53:51 GMT
Subject: permuting letters and fairy tales
In-Reply-To: <67lld8kr76.fsf@aster.homelinux.net>
References: <67lld8kr76.fsf@aster.homelinux.net>
Message-ID: <34Skd.24295$KJ6.17501@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Johannes Nix wrote:
> yesterday I met a cute person (after my dance class)

Another dancer, eh?  I mostly do Latin dancing (salsa, cha-cha,
nerengue, though haven't got bachata down) some tango and a bit
of swing.

> who told me about an
> interesting experiment regarding cognition. People were told to read a
> typed text; However, in every word in the text, only the first and the
> last letter were in the right place.

That was going around a couple months ago.  Here's some links:
   http://jwz.livejournal.com/256229.html
   http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/09/15/2227256

> - Is it possible to make it a bit more concise ;-))) ?

Yes.  Try this

#!/usr/bin/pthoyn
irpomt re
imropt rondam
ipormt snitrg

# This is lcloae aware, so long as '][-' aren't ltreets.
# (Orhtiewse use re.epscae)

wrod_pat = re.colmipe('[' + string.letters + ']{4,}')

def _jmulbe(m):
     s = m.gruop(0)
     leretts = lsit(s[1:-1])
     rondam.sulfhfe(leetrts)
     return s[0] + "".jion(ltrtees) + s[-1]

def jmblue_file(ilnife, ouflite):
     for lnie in iinlfe:
         lnie = wrod_pat.sub(_julbme, lnie)
         olftuie.wirte(line)

if __name__ == "__mian__":
     ioprmt sys
     julbme_file(sys.sdtin, sys.sdtout)


> - Can it coerced to run a little bit faster ?

You'll have to test it for yourself.  I don't have a copy
of your data set and can't find it on-line.

> - It's a good example how powerful libraries, like
>   Numeric, make one's life easier. (BTW, why is Numeric 
>   and stuff like take() still not included in the standard
>   Library ? Batteries included, but calculator not ?)

Well, random.shuffle works nicely as does using re.sub along
with a callable.  I rarely need Numeric.

> - Perhaps it's useful to protect messages in some
>   regions with not-so-democratic forms of government
>   against automatic scanning by making the message 
>   machine-unreadable, causing some Orwellian Confusion ;-) ?
>   Of course, texts from Pythonistas would remain suspicious,
>   due to the large number of "y" occurring in them....

There are many more ways to do that.  Eg, see what the
spammers do to get through the repressive forms of email
filters I use.

Oh, and to make life easier for you,

#!/usr/bin/python
import re
import random
import string

# This is locale aware, so long as '][-' aren't letters.
# (Otherwise use re.escape)

word_pat = re.compile('[' + string.letters + ']{4,}')

def _jumble(m):
     s = m.group(0)
     letters = list(s[1:-1])
     random.shuffle(letters)
     return s[0] + "".join(letters) + s[-1]

def jumble_file(infile, outfile):
     for line in infile:
         line = word_pat.sub(_jumble, line)
         outfile.write(line)

if __name__ == "__main__":
     import sys
     jumble_file(sys.stdin, sys.stdout)

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From stock4069 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 27 23:31:00 2004
From: stock4069 at yahoo.com (Mark)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 23:31:00 -0500
Subject: Formatted numerical output
In-Reply-To: <41a94806$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <Bsbqd.1221$i6.799@news.itd.umich.edu>
	<41a94806$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <Cwcqd.1222$i6.942@news.itd.umich.edu>

Kent Johnson wrote:
> Mark wrote:
> 
>> How do I output formatted numerical data to an external (text) file. 
> 
> Use string formatting operations
> http://docs.python.org/lib/typesseq-strings.html

Great stuff. Thanks.


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Nov 24 10:46:50 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:46:50 -0600
Subject: How to get an item from a simple set?
In-Reply-To: <mzx7xo74.fsf@wgmail2.gatwick.eur.slb.com>
References: <mzx7xo74.fsf@wgmail2.gatwick.eur.slb.com>
Message-ID: <16804.44266.708932.367099@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Pete> I have a set that contains one item.  What is the best way of
    Pete> getting at that item?  Using pop() empties the set.  

Do you want to enumerate all the items in the set?  If so:

    for elt in s:
        print elt

If you just want to grab one arbitrary (though not random) item from the
set, try:

    elt = iter(s).next()

Note that repeating this operation will always return the same item:

    >>> s
    set(['jkl', 'foo', 'abc', 'def', 'ghi'])
    >>> iter(s).next()
    'jkl'
    >>> iter(s).next()
    'jkl'
    >>> iter(s).next()
    'jkl'
    >>> iter(s).next()
    'jkl'

Skip


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 22:34:42 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 03:34:42 GMT
Subject: Idiom for default values when unpacking a tuple
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6523.1100746044.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <l6qmd.34062$Zr3.23130@fe1.texas.rr.com>
	<mailman.6523.1100746044.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gLUmd.624484$8_6.43429@attbi_s04>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> How about having a iterator function that is guaranteed to always
> return a fixed number of elements, regardless of the size of the
> sequence? I've checked it, and it does not exist in itertools.
> Something like this (simple-minded, just a proof of concept, and
> highly optimizable in at least a hundred different ways :-):
> 
> def iterfixed(seq, times, defaultitem=None):
>     for i in range(times):
>         if i < len(seq):
>             yield seq[i]
>         else:
>             yield defaultitem

Well, it doesn't quite exist in itertools, but it's there with just a 
simple composition:

 >>> def iterfixed(seq, times, defaultitem=None):
... 	return it.islice(it.chain(iter(seq), it.repeat(defaultitem)), times)
...
 >>> tuple(iterfixed((1,2,3,4), 3))
(1, 2, 3)
 >>> tuple(iterfixed((1,2,3,4), 6))
(1, 2, 3, 4, None, None)
 >>> a,b,c = iterfixed((1,2,3,4), 3)
 >>> a,b,c
(1, 2, 3)
 >>> a,b,c,d,e,f = iterfixed((1,2,3,4), 6)
 >>> a,b,c,d,e,f
(1, 2, 3, 4, None, None)

> The only catch is that, if you have only one parameter, then all you
> will get is the generator itself. But that's a corner case, and not
> the intended use anyway.

Not exactly sure what you mean here.  If you only have one item in your 
unpack tuple, I believe things still work, e.g.:

 >>> a, = iterfixed((1,2,3,4), 1)
 >>> a
1

But I'm probably just misunderstanding your statement...

Steve


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Nov 24 14:56:41 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 13:56:41 -0600
Subject: teaching OO
In-Reply-To: <slrncq9lgo.npu.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
References: <slrncq8inq.9gv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>	<du7ekij6rq5.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<slrncq9lgo.npu.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <41A4E779.2070005@colorstudy.com>

Gabriel Zachmann wrote:
>> The concept of overloading is easy, you can go one step further by
>> introducing generic functions / multimethods through one of the
>> modules floating around the net.
> 
> 
> You mean in Python? (or C++)
> Could you give me a pointer to one of those modules?

There's a simple example of multimethods in the Python Cookbook 
(online).  PEAK now includes a generic function implementation, a bit 
more at http://dirtsimple.org/2004/11/generic-functions-have-landed.html

Adaptation and interfaces are related idea.  I feel like they are a 
little vague at this point, as far as best-practices go.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Nov 18 10:30:40 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 10:30:40 -0500
Subject: SQL Server stored prcedures with output parameters
References: <HHWmd.10924$nj.1324@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <cnif70$an1$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <HHWmd.10924$nj.1324 at lakeread01>,
Steve Holden  <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>
>Has anyone, with any driver whatsoever, managed to retrieve output 
>parameters from a SQL Server stored procedure? I've just been rather 
>embarrassed to find out it's not as easy as it might seem, and people 
>are saying bad things about Python as a result :-(
>
>mx.ODBC, which I regard as a highly-capable module, does not support
>the callproc() API, and suggests use of the ODBC call format. It has
>caveats in (some of) the documentation implying that output parameters
>cannot be handled due to their indeterminate memory requirements,
>however.

Keep in mind that it's been several years since I used Python with SQL
Server and about all I remember is that we used stored procedures
heavily with no problems.  I have no clue whether we tried using stored
procedures with output parameters, but I wonder why you can't just use a
SELECT to call the stored procedure and return the values.  Or at least
right another stored proc that does something roughly similar.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Sat Nov 20 16:36:23 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 19:36:23 -0200
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <309qrmF2im5d4U1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<cnlgv2$vc$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6616.1100893198.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3073pnF2rf1v9U1@uni-berlin.de> <10pt5sfdr8hh52e@corp.supernews.com>
	<309qrmF2im5d4U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <864d370904112013363e69ba07@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 22:20:28 +0100, Peter Maas <peter at somewhere.com> wrote:
> Could this patent be circumvented by writing "not (a is b)" instead
> of "a is not b"? If that would be the case the patent claim would
> be even more ridiculous.

Going off-topic.

Ridiculous patents are not the exclusive domain of software. A few
years ago someone (I think it was Motorola, but I'm not sure) got a
patent on "Vibracall", or how to make a cell phone vibrate when
receiving calls. They didn't want to license the patent to their
competitors. Nokia circumvented it by putting the vibracall circuits
into the battery pack. So when you bought a Nokia digital phone, you
have to buy a "vibracall enabled battery". It was that weird.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Nov 11 15:30:18 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:30:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Concise idiom to initialize dictionaries
References: <mailman.6164.1100018559.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmr4oj$ju0$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<opshb0sok61js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
Message-ID: <loom.20041111T212711-659@post.gmane.org>

Caleb Hattingh <caleb1 <at> telkomsa.net> writes:
> 
> For interest sake, how would such a thing look with new-style classes?  My  
> (likely misinformed) impression is that __getattr__ for example, doesn't  
> behave in quite the same way?

Just the same[1] =)

>>> class AllDicts(object):
...     def __getattr__(self, name):
...         d = {}
...         setattr(self, name, d)
...         return d
...     def __repr__(self):
...         items = self.__dict__.items()
...         items.sort()
...         return '\n'.join(['%s -> %r' % item for item in items])
...        
>>> ad = AllDicts()
>>> ad.a[1] = 99
>>> ad.b[2] = 42
>>> ad.b[3] = 11
>>> ad
a -> {1: 99}
b -> {2: 42, 3: 11}
>>> 

I believe that __getattr__ works just the same (but to check for yourself, see
http://docs.python.org/ref/attribute-access.html).  I think what you're thinking
of is __getattribute__ which new-style classes offer *in addition* to
__getattr__.  While __getattr__ is called only if an attribute is not found,
__getattribute__ is called unconditionally for every attribute access.

Steve

[1] modulo my preference for list comprehensions/generator expressions instead
of map



From jerry at jerrysievers.com  Tue Nov 23 15:03:10 2004
From: jerry at jerrysievers.com (Jerry Sievers)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 15:03:10 -0500
Subject: Transfer data from webpage form to database
References: <41a36ab7$0$23056$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net>
	<m33bz05u3p.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
	<41a38f13$0$23068$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net>
Message-ID: <m3u0rg49kx.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>

"Pete....." <helten0007 at yahoo.com> writes:

> Hi, yeah It's try I want to change it to a python.cgi.script. And thanks for 
> your input.....
> 
> I use the api pgsql
> So the first thing I do is to import the following and connect to the 
> server:
> 
> #!/pack/python-2.3.2/bin/python2.3
> from pyPgSQL import PgSQL
> import cgi
> import cgitb
> cgitb.enable()
> 
> form = cgi.FieldStorage()  ( I added this )
> connect = PgSQL.connect(user="vvvvv", password="zzzzz", host="xxx.xxx.xx", 
> database="yyyyy")
> 
> Do I then have to write:
> 
> PgSQL.query(''' INSERT into form
>                          Select persons.idpersons, person.username, 
> persons.surname, phone.phone  (And so on ) ( its what the specific tables 
> are called in my database)
>                          From persons, phone                             ( 
> And so on )
>                          Where persons.name = 'Name'%s
>                           AND persons.surname ='Surname'%s
>                           AND persons.username = 'Username'%s ''' 
> (And so on with the rest)
>                            % (form['name'].value, form['surname'].value, 
> form['username'].value))
> 
> I dont think I get it quite right, any help would be highly appreciated. 
> Thanks for all help...

It looks to me like the part here that you don't understand is how to
interpolate your form data into the string for the database query.

You should study up on the % string formatting operator in the Python
docs.

I'll throw you a bone here;

"""
%s %s %s
""" % (form[key1].value, form[key2].value, form[keyN].value)

Each of those %s tokens is going to be replaced with one of the values
in the tuple right of the % operator.

If you want to pile the form values into a dict and then use symbolic
names in the string...

dict = {}
for key in form:
	dict[key] = form[key].value

"""
%(key1)s %(key2)s...
""" % dict

Maybe there is a function in the cgi module that will make the dict
for you?  I am not sure.

Have fun!


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Sievers   305 854-3001 (home)     WWW ECommerce Consultant
                305 321-1144 (mobile	http://www.JerrySievers.com/


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Thu Nov 18 17:16:05 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 09:16:05 +1100
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining
	thenumber of output arguments)
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE4A90D0@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

Lonnie Princehouse wrote:

> Not quite the syntax you want, but better imho since it doesn't
> involve name redundancy:
> 
> locals().update( {'a': 1, 'b': 2, 'c': 3} )

"locals()

Update and return a dictionary representing the current local symbol
table. Warning: The contents of this dictionary should not be modified;
changes may not affect the values of local variables used by the
interpreter."

Read that warning. Really well.

Tim Delaney


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 12:10:50 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:10:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ANN: New configuration module released
References: <2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5873.1099513574.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.04.09.03.20.767617@nospam.logilab.fr>
	<mailman.5902.1099566050.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.04.13.21.50.589878@nospam.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <loom.20041104T180814-117@post.gmane.org>

Sylvain Thenault <sylvain.thenault <at> nospam.logilab.fr> writes:
> 
> A basic example showing main functionalities :
[snip very cool example]

Wow, this is great!  This is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for the
last time I had to write config files...

Steve



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Nov 20 11:18:40 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 11:18:40 -0500
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <mailman.5272.1098381729.5135.python-list@python.org><1gm17og.ctwoqv17vkctxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com><419EEEAA.D3C1046F@yahoo.com><mailman.6642.1100936758.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<87actcrhlo.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>
Message-ID: <cnnqol$7l7$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Isaac To" <iketo2 at netscape.net> wrote in message 
news:87actcrhlo.fsf at sinken.local.csis.hku.hk...

> "Terry" == Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:
>>    Terry> Specialization goes in special methods -- the ones named
>>    Terry> __xxx__ -- of which there are now 50-100.

> No, you don't quite understand what the OP is asking for.

No, YOU are the one who does not understand, because you apparently did not 
do me the courtesy of reading my entire post, in which I quoted the 
question I answered.  Here again is the OP's question about *type* 
specialization *in Python*:

>>> If you have, for example, several data-types for matrices, how do you
>>> write code that will automatically find the right routine for quickly
>>> multiplying a vector by a diagonal matrix represented as a vector, and
>>> automatically call the right code for multiplying by a sparse matrix
>>> represented by some sparse coding, etc?

The has NOTHING to do with writing base cases in recursive C++ template 
metaprogramming (which, ironically, uses the compiler as an interpreter).

Although there may be other answers now and in the future, the answer I 
gave is the straightforward standard answer for Python today.

Terry J. Reedy 





From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov 18 00:53:33 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 05:53:33 GMT
Subject: Rationals?
References: <x73bz7na6r.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<mailman.6528.1100750131.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <419c3185.348584998@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:47:27 -0800, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

>
>Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
>> 
>> With the decimals and the unification of int and long coming, it's natural
>> (for me, anyway) to wonder how much interest there is in a rational type.
>> There are two PEPs (239 and 240), and the Guido rejects them as no one
>> seems interested in doing the work, but points out that the python
>> distribution comes with examples/Demo/classes/Rat.py.
>> 
>> I propose - in the spirit of "batteries included" - that Rat.py be
>> cleaned up some (mostly to take advantage of the union of ints and
>> longs) and moved into the standard library.
>> 
>> Any good reasons not to do this?
>
>Update the PEP, do the work, and offer a good rational number object (if
>you are interested in doing such). I have personally written at least
>two different rational classes, and I am aware of at least 3 others
>(though I can't remember their names).
>
>If it is implemented in Python; stay away from the binary GCD algorithm,
>Euclid's is faster.
>
I just looked at Rat.py in the demos, and I am wondering why floating point
is at all included. IMO rationals should be exact, and unless you define
what exact value you would like to have a floating point value represent (e.g.,
all available bits, or some rounding specification) you don't have a way
to make an exact rational. With longs there is no legal floating point double
number whose value can't be represented exactly as a rational, so there's no
problem except deciding. Likewise any floating point string literal can be
converted exactly, e.g., '123.4e-5' => Rat(1234, 1000000) etc., which I think
can be handy. BTW, IIRC complex is implemented strictly with floating point pairs,
so that doesn't seem satisfactory, unless a new complex class is implemented using
rational pairs. Otherwise I'd say leave complex out.

Obviously fractional powers can produce non-rational results, so that poses
a design problem if you want to handle them at all.

Anyway, am I the only one who thinks that rational should be exact?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From riko.wichmann at remove-this.desy.de  Fri Nov 19 07:41:20 2004
From: riko.wichmann at remove-this.desy.de (Riko Wichmann)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:41:20 +0100
Subject: activating history in Python 2.3.4
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6583.1100857306.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cnkd0b$25i72$1@claire.desy.de>
	<mailman.6583.1100857306.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cnkpoa$25vq0$1@claire.desy.de>

Gerhard Haering wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2004 at 10:03:47AM +0100, Riko Wichmann wrote:
> 
>>[Python compiled from source does not have readline support]
> 
> 
> Make sure that the readline development headers and libraries are
> installed on your system.
> 
> On Debian Linux, for example they're called libreadline4-dev. On
> RPM-based Linux distributions, they're called libreadline-devel or
> similarly.

well I installed readline5.0 from source, so all necessay headers are 
there. but still, no module named readline ....

I configure python explicitly with --with-readline and everything seems 
to be fine. I find in the config.log:

ac_cv_lib_readline_rl_completion_matches=yes
ac_cv_lib_readline_rl_pre_input_hook=yes

and no other complains in connection with readline. However, looking in 
the lib/python2.3/lib-dynload after make, make install, there is only a 
readline_failed.so and an xreadlines.so ... ??

Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

	Riko


From robin at reportlab.com  Mon Nov  8 05:53:51 2004
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 10:53:51 +0000
Subject: pep 8 converter?
Message-ID: <418F503F.9050409@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

Is there a tool that checks/imposes PEP 8 (ie the right core coding style?). It 
seems that bugfix patches which miss on style are rejected out of hand. So since 
I'm quite chaotic and unable to get on with the "foolish consistency" people it 
would be nice if there's some way to actually fix broken code without too much 
mind numbing attention to spacing around operators etc.
-- 
Robin Becker


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov  1 15:34:30 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 20:34:30 GMT
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
References: <mailman.5757.1099313956.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4186990d.1364093693@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 12:59:01 GMT, exarkun at divmod.com wrote:

>On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 07:20:51 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>>On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 03:11:42 GMT, exarkun at divmod.com wrote:
>> 
>> >On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:00:07 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>> >> [snip]
>> >> 
>> >> BTW, will anything that works in a list comprehension work in a generator expression
>> >> (assuming one does not depend on the generator expression having leftover outside
>> >> side effect bindings like the LC version)?
>> >> 
>> >
>> >  Nope.  For example, I don't think the code in this thread will work if converted to a generator expression.  A simplified example:
>> >
>> >    >>> x = 0 
>> >    >>> list(x for x in iter(lambda: x + 1, 4))
>> >    ( runs forever, so C-c )
>> >    Traceback (most recent call last):
>> >      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>> >      File "<stdin>", line 1, in <generator expression>
>> >    KeyboardInterrupt
>> >    >>> [x for x in iter(lambda: x + 1, 4)]
>> >    [1, 2, 3]
>> >    >>> 
>> >
>> >  `x' in the lambda in the list comprehension resolves to a different name than `x' in the generator comprehension.
>> >
>> I had a sneaky suspicion that it _could_ be so, hoping not. But your example doesn't play fair
>> because you don't give x an initial condition inside the scope of the expression. E.g.,
>> 
>>  >>> [x for x in [0] for x in iter(lambda:x+1, 4)]
>>  [1, 2, 3]
>>  >>> list(x for x in [0] for x in iter(lambda:x+1, 4))
>>    File "<stdin>", line 1
>>      list(x for x in [0] for x in iter(lambda:x+1, 4))
>>               ^
>>  SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>> 
>
>  I'm not sure what "playing fair" means here :)  I gave an example of a list comprehension that behaves differently when trivially rewritten as a generator comprehension, without relying on the one behavioral difference you explicitly omitted.  I do appear to have been wrong about this change applying to the number_in_base function, though.
I meant you didn't provide an initial value for x inside the expression
like my number_in_base function, or [x for x in [0] ... above.
You did fair-and-square provide an example that won't translate to the
new gx context though. But it appears this is going to be a documentation
problem rather than a technical one, somewhat similar to explaining what
lambda:x+1 will use inside of a function. I.e., it depends on what else is
in the function and its environment.

BTW, did you try the above?
>From a post (with broken subject line ;-) of Steven Bethard's, it seems to work.
I'll re-quote it here to give it context:
----
>Bengt Richter <bokr <at> oz.net> writes:
>> 
>> Well, I don't have 2.4 yet, but what does it do?

>>>> [x for x in [0] for x in iter(lambda:x+1, 4)]
>[1, 2, 3]
>>>> list(x for x in [0] for x in iter(lambda:x+1, 4))
>[1, 2, 3]

>Looks like it does just what you'd hope it would do.  =)

>Steve
----


Regards,
Bengt Richter


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Mon Nov  1 20:56:03 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 17:56:03 -0800
Subject: How to change the combo box lists as my wish
In-Reply-To: <4185ce3d$1@news.seeder.net>
References: <4185ce3d$1@news.seeder.net>
Message-ID: <1099360563.9453.16.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Mon, 2004-11-01 at 13:48 +0800, Austin wrote:
> .................
> self.diskList = ['3','4','5']
> self.cB = wxComboBox(self,-1,wxDefaultPosition,wxDefaultSize,self.diskList)
> .................
> 
> The code is executed initially.
> If i want to update only the diskList, what could i do?

I take it you want the list and the wxComboBox tied together so that
updating the python list automatically updates the wxComboBox.  There is
no built-in way to do this.  However, you could do something like this:

import wx

class CBList(list):
    def __init__(self, combobox):
        list.__init__(self)
        self.combobox = combobox
        
    def __setitem__(self, key, value):
        list.__setitem__(self, key, value)
        self.combobox.SetString(key, value)
        
    def __delitem__(self, key):
        list.__delitem__(self, key)
        self.combobox.Delete(key)
                
    def append(self, value):
        list.append(self, value)
        self.combobox.Append(value)


class MyFrame(wx.Frame):
    def __init__(self, parent, id, title):
        wx.Frame.__init__(self, parent, id, title)
        cb = wx.ComboBox(self, -1)
        choices = CBList(cb)

        choices.append('test 1')
        choices.append('test 2')
        choices[0] = 'replace test 1'
        del choices[1]
            
if __name__ == '__main__':
    app = wx.PySimpleApp()
    frame = MyFrame(None, -1, 'test')
    frame.Show(True)
    app.MainLoop ()


Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Fri Nov  5 08:40:22 2004
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 13:40:22 -0000
Subject: Add a file to a compressed tarfile
References: <pan.2004.11.05.13.13.16.645896@hotmail.com>
	<opsgzt98rb13dtg9@vpn-client-248-060.london.eur.slb.com>
Message-ID: <opsgzuxkwt13dtg9@vpn-client-248-060.london.eur.slb.com>

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 13:26:22 -0000, Martin Franklin  
<mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 00:13:16 +1100, Dennis Hotson  
> <djdennie69 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm trying to write a function that adds a file-like-object to a
>> compressed tarfile...  eg ".tar.gz" or ".tar.bz2"
>>
>> I've had a look at the tarfile module but the append mode doesn't  
>> support
>> compressed tarfiles... :(
>>
>> Any thoughts on what I can do to get around this?
>>
>> Cheers!
>


<snip - useless info from myself>

Sorry I just re-read your message after sending my reply....



From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Thu Nov 25 02:52:09 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 23:52:09 -0800
Subject: asynchat and threading
References: <Ij1pd.19554$ld2.4796764@twister.nyc.rr.com>	<mailman.6755.1101310280.5135.python-list@python.org>	<4edc17eb.0411241036.72eed3ef@posting.google.com>	<41a505c2$0$20660$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<mailman.6771.1101346778.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0411242352.470e6114@posting.google.com>

Anthony Baxter <anthonybaxter at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.6771.1101346778.5135.python-list at python.org>...

<snip a lot of interesting comments>

I have the following problem, and I would like to know if asyncore or
twisted could be of help here, and which one you would suggest. 
I have a few users (say 100) who want to send small bunches of text 
(say 1K in size) to a remote server via TCP; the server should save 
these texts in a small database. The server should be able to catch the 
messages from the different users and "synchronize" them (not sure what the 
right word is): if two messages arrive at the same time they are written one
after the other to the database. In this way the database has not to 
worry about concurrency issues and I could just use shelve; the 
messages will be stored as a mapping usernames -> messages. I would
rather NOT use a "real" database, since the load is very
small and I do not want to install and maintain a database server in
the remote machine for something so simple. The order of arrival of the 
messages is not important. The message has to be stored when the termination
char arrives, so I was thinking about using asynchat. But maybe twisted has
already a pre-built solution for this problem.

Any hints?


                           Michele Simionato


From mauriceling at acm.org  Sat Nov  6 18:46:23 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 10:46:23 +1100
Subject: seems that someone is anonymous
In-Reply-To: <c718a6cf.0411061137.683823ec@posting.google.com>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c718a6cf.0411061137.683823ec@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <418D624F.5030800@acm.org>

Message from  yahoo.com.
Unable to deliver message to the following address(es).

<jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com>:
64.157.4.78 failed after I sent the message.
Remote host said: 554 delivery error: dd This user doesn't have a 
yahoo.com account (jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com) [0] - 
mta109.mail.sc5.yahoo.com


From dieringe at zedat.fu-berlin.de  Mon Nov 22 14:48:16 2004
From: dieringe at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Martin Dieringer)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 20:48:16 +0100
Subject: split large file by string/regex
References: <v5l872-sd4.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>
	<41A1EF3E.1080409@holdenweb.com>
	<mailman.6700.1101147794.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0ds972-sct1.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>

"Denis S. Otkidach" <ods at strana.ru> writes:

> On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:53:02 -0500
> Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>
>> > I am trying to split a file by a fixed string.
>> > The file is too large to just read it into a string and split this.
>> > I could probably use a lexer but there maybe anything more simple?
>> > thanks
>> > m.
>> 
>> Depends on your definition of "simple", I suppose. The problem with 
>> *not* using a lexer is that you'd have to examine the file in a sequence 
>> of overlapping chunks to make sure that a regex could pick up all 
>
> re module works fine with mmap-ed file, so no need to read it into memory.
>

thank you, this is the solution! 
Now I can mmap.find all locations and then read the chunks them via
file.seek and file.read

m.


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Nov 21 13:35:39 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:35:39 -0600
Subject: looking for a good introduction to OOP
References: <MPG.1c005cd4c4025381989685@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<leh1q0po41gkt08uflm1r3i9gnm50ol7n5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <x7mzxboxs4.fsf@guru.mired.org>

<dd55 at cornell.edu> wrote:
> I would like to learn more about object oriented concepts, like design 
> and techniques. I have experience with Matlab and Python, a little with 

I consider Bertrand Meyer's "Object Oriented Software Construction" a
must read for OO developers. It is getting dated, though.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Mon Nov  8 07:33:16 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 12:33:16 GMT
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmgcp1$hpk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncong4u.1tk.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmggel$t2o$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cmggh2$t2o$01$2@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5996.1099739023.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmil81$184$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <slrncoupsc.mcv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>

>  The name mangling is not the important part - memory layout of the objects
>  is. As setting members is made due to offsets to the objects address in
>  memory, one has to know exactly in which order declared and possibly

given the header file of the c++ lib, it should be possible to determine
that at run-time.

Or, one could give the header file to the generic python wrapper module and
tell the module also, with which compiler the c++ lib was compiled.

Gab.

-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| There are works which wait,                                             |
| and which one does not understand for a long time; [...]                |
| for the question often arrives a terribly long time after the answer.   |
|                                                         (Oscar Wilde)   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From parker at hiredatum.demon.co.uk  Sat Nov  6 03:01:01 2004
From: parker at hiredatum.demon.co.uk (Ian Parker)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 08:01:01 +0000
Subject: win 2003 server
References: <cmef57$7si$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<0-GdnfNAPrb1XxfcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <4XrEvfk9SIjBFwhe@hiredatum.demon.co.uk>

In message <0-GdnfNAPrb1XxfcRVn-sw at powergate.ca>, Peter Hansen 
<peter at engcorp.com> writes
>Brad Tilley wrote:
>> Does Python run on Windows Server 2003?
>>  http://www.python.org/download/download_windows.html only lists the 
>>following:
>>  Python for Windows 95, 98, NT, 2000, ME, XP
>
>I'm fairly sure "Windows Server 2003" is in no way significantly
>different from one or more of the above items you list.  It's
>not like Microsoft has gone and developed yet another operating
>system!  It's a certainty that its biggest feature is that it
>will confuse some corporate buyers into "upgrading", thus boosting
>MS revenue for another quarter...
>
>If you have a copy, downloading and installing a copy of Python
>would be the most direct route to proving that theory.
>
>-Peter

Python certainly does run on Windows Server 2003, as does win32all (or 
whatever it's called nowadays).  Think of Windows Server 2003 is simply 
XP for servers.

Regards

Ian
-- 
Ian Parker


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Nov 10 03:06:45 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 00:06:45 -0800
Subject: possible to pass python objects into java without jython?
In-Reply-To: <419136A1.8030601@acm.org>
References: <4190BFE0.5080507@bellsouth.net> <419136A1.8030601@acm.org>
Message-ID: <20041110000240.F8B2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Maurice Ling <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote:
> Jeremy Jones wrote:
> 
> > Maurice Ling wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I have read that this had been asked before but there's no 
> >> satisfactory replies then.
> >>
> >> I have a module (pA) written in python, which originally is called by 
> >> another python module (pB), and passes a python object (pO) to pB. 
> >> Now I require pA to be called in a java class (jC) and pass pO into 
> >> jC. As pA uses non-python modules, I am not able to use Jython on this.
> >>
> >> Are there any way out in this?
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance.
> >>
> >> Maurice
> >
> > How about:
> >
> >     * XMLRPC
> >     * SOAP
> >     * a messaging queue of some sort (pA or pB - I'm a little unclear
> >       on which is the starting point - could put pO in a message queue
> >       and jC could pick it up)
> >     * serialize the Python object to disk in an intermediate format
> >       (say, XML) and have the Java process pick it up
> >     * CORBA
> >
> > Without more details, and some clarification, that's the best I can 
> > do.  Are you sure you meant to say pA is called by pB, or is it the 
> > other way around?  If pA is being called, it really can't pass pO to 
> > pB, unless you've got a callback setup.
> >
> >
> > Jeremy Jones
> 
> Say this scenario...
> 
> pA.py contains
> imports (something non-pure python)
> def A(n):
>     ...(does something)...
>     returns pO
> 
> pB.py comtains
> import pA
> def B(n):
>     (does something)
>     x = pA.A(n)
>     (does more things)
> 
> How can I get Java to call pA.A function and then receives the object it 
> returns? I am considering SOAP or CORBA, but just wondering if there is 
> any other ways without resorting to network or socket programming, since 
> all modules are on the same machine?


Python and Java are two different languages with two differen runtimes 
(except in the case of Jython, which you said you didn't want to use). 
You can't just call a function or method from the other (except in the
case of Jython, which you said you didn't want to use).  You /can/ use
IPC (files, sockets, pipes, corba, etc.) to result in a method call and
data transfer, but you can't just use 'data = python_runtime.module_pB.B(n);'
from Java (except in the case of Jython,
which you said you didn't want to use).

 - Josiah



From steve at ferg.org  Wed Nov  3 09:45:43 2004
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 3 Nov 2004 06:45:43 -0800
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
	<du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0411030645.216873d3@posting.google.com>

> Hell, people rarely even mention Perl these days 

-----------------------------------------
location           number of hits for
                    Python    Perl
-----------------------------------------

Monster.com             18     552

Washington Post
classifieds             25     353

InfoWorld               81     954
job openings

TotalJobs (British)     32     200


From tony.ha at philips.com  Fri Nov 12 06:42:59 2004
From: tony.ha at philips.com (Tony Ha)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:42:59 -0000
Subject: Plone and mod_python
Message-ID: <7l1ld.13845$3_.7287@ns2.gip.net>

Hello

Can some one explain what are the differences between "plone" and "Apache +
mod_python"?

>From plone.org. It says "Plone is powerful and flexible. It is ideal as an
intranet
and extranet server" does this mean if I use "plone" I do not need to
install
"Apache + mod_python"? Thanks in advance!

Tony.




From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Thu Nov  4 19:41:31 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 19:41:31 -0500
Subject: Storing objects in dictionary
In-Reply-To: <ofdlo09iilph9bl8opni2ve2po34fuej4j@4ax.com>
References: <8C53AAFA2050EE40BDCDB9455DA7D6340C6266@sw720ex020.visa.com>	<mailman.5929.1099598917.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ofdlo09iilph9bl8opni2ve2po34fuej4j@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <418ACC3B.4040301@bellsouth.net>

Kirby Urner wrote:

>Jeremy Jones <zanesdad at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Are you trying to use the session object as a key in the dictionary or a 
>>value of a key?  What error are you getting?  You should be able to put 
>>anything into a dictionary (AFAIK) as a key, but only hashable objects 
>>    
>>
>                                         ^^^
>                                        value
>  
>
>>can be put in as keys.
>>
>>
>>Jeremy Jones
>>    
>>
>
>I know you know what you meant.  Just correcting for posterity. -- Kirby
>
>  
>
Doh!  Yes, that is what my brain thought, but not what my uncooperative 
fingers typed.  Thanks.

Jeremy
-------------- next part --------------
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From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Nov 10 04:58:30 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:58:30 +0100
Subject: Concise idiom to initialize dictionaries
References: <89D59C407D04D54AA82DC8BA312D430D10C6175C@enyc11p32001.corpny.csfb.com>
	<mailman.6207.1100080123.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmsom8$j9s$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Rainer Mansfeld wrote:

> Being a C/C++ programmer with only a couple of weeks of Python
> experience, I'd simply do:
> 
> a = b = c = d = e = f = g = h = i = j = k = l = {}
> 
> That's clear and compact, but is it 'pythonic'?

It is usually wrong as all names "point" to the _same_ dictionary:

>>> a = b = c = d = e = f = g = h = i = j = k = l = {}
>>> a[1] = 42
>>> b
{1: 42}
>>> l
{1: 42}

The OP wanted all variables initialized with a _separate_ dictionary.
If you really want the above behaviour, from my point of view there is
nothing speaking against chaining assignments.

Peter




From nick at craig-wood.com  Fri Nov 12 01:47:47 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 06:47:47 GMT
Subject: crc32 to be used as hash
References: <slrncp7e3j.bdf.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<mailman.6276.1100202639.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncp7n9a.tb7.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Tim Peters <tim.peters at gmail.com> wrote:
[snip interesting info about CRC tests]
>  BTW, it's possible to design CRC polynomials with better hash
>  statistics, but that's not what binascii.crc32 was designed for.
>  Like most CRC polynomials in wide use, it was designed to catch
>  common forms of data corruption (single-bit errors, bursts of 0 or
>  1 bits at either end, stuff like that).

[Digression] Amongst other properties, data with CRC32(data) appended
is guaranteed a Hamming distance of 3. You can actually use the CRC32
to correct single bit errors (at the cost of some of its error
detection properties).  That isn't usually worth it though! (I spent a
long time (a long time ago now) analysing and coding CRC (and FEC)
polynomials ;-)

Anyway, another reason why you'd not want to use it as a hash is that
its linear and its trivial to find things which have the same crc32
value. Its really easy to run backwards and forwards.  This may or may
not be important for the application depending on whether you are
expecting malicious attack on the hashes.  Probably better safe than
sorry though!

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Nov 22 13:39:21 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:39:21 -0800
Subject: py.test anyone?
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3245269@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Stephen Boulet wrote:
> Have people been using py.test?

It's on my to-do list for today... Let me know how it turns out for you.
;) Email me and I'll send you a zipped copy of mine.

> Also, in searching google groups for 'py.test' the dot between py and 
> test seems to throw off the search. Can a google guru let me 
> know how to have google search for the literal string? Thanks.

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22py.test%22


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From danperl at rogers.com  Fri Nov 19 17:05:10 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:05:10 -0500
Subject: Class Encapsulation Errors in Python 2.3.3
References: <47f7cc78.0411182007.1b77c2b1@posting.google.com>
	<nrudnceoVIIV5QDcRVn-hw@rogers.com>
	<47f7cc78.0411191005.7b793bf@posting.google.com>
	<10pskhnjt2met3f@corp.supernews.com>
	<z_ydneo0T-HFxQPcRVn-ug@rogers.com>
	<06adnWRWPNfexAPcRVn-gA@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <UMednbDHXvyE8wPcRVn-iw@rogers.com>

Better make another correction before someone else totally embarrasses me. 
I was wrong, strings are not mutable.

That immediately made me wonder why strings are immutable.  But it turns out 
that question has already been beaten to death, not too long ago 
(http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&threadm=DbqdnXN8NqpMxrfcRVn-pw%40comcast.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dmutable%2Bstring%2Bimmutable%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*%26c2coff%3D1%26selm%3DDbqdnXN8NqpMxrfcRVn-pw%2540comcast.com%26rnum%3D2)

Dan

"Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote in message 
news:06adnWRWPNfexAPcRVn-gA at rogers.com...
> Errata: instead of "complex types" please read "mutable types".
>
> "Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote in message 
> news:z_ydneo0T-HFxQPcRVn-ug at rogers.com...
>>I fully agree with Jeff and I will make a couple of other small points.
>>
>> I saw you meant to use 'False' as a default value for the class-level 
>> attribute 'songs'.  'None' is the normal value for initializations like 
>> that.  It's a small point but it kind of stuck in my mind as being 
>> unusual.
>>
>> If you still choose to use class-level attributes and to initialize them 
>> with default values, you have to keep in mind that you will encounter 
>> this kind of problem with all the initializations that are using complex 
>> types. That means lists like in the case of 'songs', but also strings 
>> like in the case of 'name' and 'artist'.  Jeff pointed out in an earlier 
>> posting that there are also other ways you could get into trouble like 
>> this and it should be made clear that this is true for all the complex 
>> types, not only lists.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> "Jeff Shannon" <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message 
>> news:10pskhnjt2met3f at corp.supernews.com...
>>> Tim Henderson wrote:
>>>
>>>>Here is a partial implementation, i don't have the code with me but
>>>>this is how the songs list is made
>>>>
>>>>code:
>>>>-------------------------------------------
>>>>class Album:
>>>>    name = ''
>>>>    songs = []
>>>>    artist = ''
>>>>
>>>>    def __init__(self, name, artist):
>>>>        self.name = name
>>>>        self.artist = artist
>>>>-------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, this gives you class-level attributes, shared by all instances of 
>>> Album.  In the case of name and artist, you're then creating 
>>> instance-level attributes ('self.name = name') which shadow the 
>>> class-level attribute.  But you never bind 'songs' on the instance, so 
>>> you're just modifying the class-level (shared) songs list.
>>>
>>>>after reading the code i came up with a possible solution:
>>>>
>>>>possible code:
>>>>-------------------------------------------
>>>>class Album:
>>>>    name = ''
>>>>    songs = False
>>>>    artist = ''
>>>>
>>>>    def __init__(self, name, artist):
>>>>        self.name = name
>>>>        self.artist = artist
>>>>        if songs == False:
>>>>            songs = []
>>>>------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>
>>> That'll almost work -- within __init__(), you need to refer to songs as 
>>> self.songs (both times).  But why bother with creating the class-level 
>>> attributes?  If you just set them in __init__(), all will be fine.
>>>
>>> class Album:
>>>
>>>    def __init__(self, name, artist):
>>>
>>>        self.name = name
>>>        self.artist = artist
>>>        self.songs = []
>>>
>>> will have the same net effect as your code, for the vast majority of 
>>> common purposes.  (There are corner cases where having class-level 
>>> defaults is helpful, but I sincerely doubt that this is true for your 
>>> program.)
>>>
>>> Jeff Shannon
>>> Technician/Programmer
>>> Credit International
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> 




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Nov 17 14:06:13 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:06:13 -0800
Subject: global event listeners
In-Reply-To: <1100680355.351342.116920@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.6471.1100672744.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1100680355.351342.116920@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20041117102213.F98F.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


"Hunter  Peress" <hunterp at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Josiah Carlson wrote:
> > "Hunter  Peress" <hunterp at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > i suppose i could do this, and have an "if self.__name__ ==
> > > what_im_looking_for and type(self) == what_im_also_looking_for"
> > >
> > > next is how can i make every object in a given runtime inherit from
> > > this class
> 
> >
> > class counter(object):
> >     counter = 0
> >     def __init__(self, value):
> >         self.__value = value
> >
> >     def get_v(self):
> >         return self.__value
> >     def set_v(self, val):
> >         self.__value = val
> >         counter.counter += 1
> >     value = property(get_v, set_v)
> >
> > >>> a = counter(1)
> > >>> b = counter(2)
> > >>> a.counter
> > 0
> > >>> b.counter
> > 0
> > >>> a.value = 0
> > >>> a.counter
> > 1
> > >>> b.counter
> > 1
> > >>>
> >
> >
> >  - Josiah
> 
> Well yes, but im looking for a non-1:1 way of making every object be a
> child of this new class.  i would have to do an insane amount of
> regex.... ;-)

Not really.  You could (as another poster suggests) make an object with
some number of dynamically created attributes, and call such an object
something like 'M' (for magic)...

M.name
M.name2
etc.

An interesting feature request would be:
Allow properties to be assigned to modules after module instantiation,
coupled with the ability to get the current module.

With those two features, then what you want is possible, though those
two features /aren't/ going to make it into Python 2.4, it it would take
quite a bit of work to make it happen in Python 2.5.


 - Josiah



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 16 03:20:48 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 01:20:48 -0700
Subject: determining the number of output arguments
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6361.1100470915.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cn95k1$bfq$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6371.1100498345.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnb7hi.1hwbltbftm6c1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6392.1100556222.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbg4k.13z20mj1w1o0ysN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnc34a.1h31tyf1qbqr06N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cncdcc$a9q$1@sea.gmane.org>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

>> But then again, I don't much like extended list slicing (I generally
>> only use the L[:y], L[x:] and L[x:y]  versions).
> 
> It may be that in your specific line of work there is no opportunity or
> usefulness for the stride argument.  Statistically, however, it's

Indeed, those of us from the Numeric/numarray side of things rely every day on
extended slicing, and consider it an absolute necessity for writing compact,
clean, readable numerical python code.  

It's no surprise that this syntax (as far as I know) originated from the needs
of the scientific computing community, a group where python is picking up users
every day.

Cheers,

f



From exarkun at divmod.com  Tue Nov  2 12:20:04 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 17:20:04 GMT
Subject: slice object unpickable
In-Reply-To: <20041102084836.F7D5.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20041102172004.23443.920265994.divmod.quotient.272@ohm>

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 08:50:45 -0800, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
>
> sdementen at hotmail.com (Sebastien de Menten) wrote:
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I wonder why the slice object is not pickable via pickle or cPickle.
> > E.g.:
> 
> [snip slice pickling]
> 
> I don't know why clice pickling was disabled.
> 
> To get past it, why not just store the argument tuples that lead to
> slices?  (sli.start, sli.stop, sli.step)
> 

  Or use the copy_reg module to make them pickleable:

    def pickleSlice(slice):
        return unpickleSlice, (slice.start, slice.stop, slice.step)
    def unpickleSlice(start, stop, step):
        return slice(start, stop, step)
    copy_reg.pickle(slice, pickleSlice, unpickleSlice)

  Jp



From valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk  Tue Nov 16 08:14:42 2004
From: valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk (Valkyrie)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:14:42 +0800
Subject: HTMLParser problem
Message-ID: <1100610863.75889@eng-ser4>

I've fed some data to the HTML parser constructed by myself. Here is the
beginning of the content of the fed data:
=====
<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1"><link rel="stylesheet"
href="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/lib/s/yschx_040927.css" type="text/css"
media="all">

<![if !IE]>
...
=====
however, when "<![if !IE]>" is encountered, I found that handle_data() is called
but not handle_decl(), (since I've let the function handle_decl to print sth on
the screen, but nothing happened) and the following error is displayed:

......
HTMLParser.HTMLParseError: unknown declaration: 'if !IE', at line 4, column 1

May I ask why such error is raised? Thanks in advance!


From neil.benn at arcor.de  Wed Nov 24 14:37:04 2004
From: neil.benn at arcor.de (Neil Benn)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:37:04 +0100
Subject: Identifying exceptions that can be raised
In-Reply-To: <cdCnd.510$uV6.325@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <cVdnd.7986$tS4.4873@trndny09>	<mailman.6579.1100837821.5135.python-list@python.org>	<6Rknd.6671$%M4.4203@trndny08>	<cnmcek$rju$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<cdCnd.510$uV6.325@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <41A4E2E0.6040901@arcor.de>

Hello,

          I too find the lack of finding exceptions that can be raised a 
problem (I'm a nasty old Java programmer as well!).  Java checked 
exceptions get a beating every so often but it's not as bad as always 
made out, see comments below:

>
> One of my puzzlements about Java 10 years ago or so was
> why it decided to go the "must declare every exception" route.

Well sort of there are two basic types of exceptions 'normal' exception 
and runtime exceptions - runtime exceptions do not need a try/catch 
around them.  These are your general case.

>
> Consider this simple and naive numeric integrator
>
> def integrate(f, start, end, n):
>   delta = (end-start)/float(n)
>   x = start + delta / 2
>   sum = 0.0
>   for i in range(n+1):
>     sum = sum + f(x)
>     x += delta
>   return sum / (n+1)
>
> That function cannot define all the exceptions that can be
> raised because f itself can raise an arbitrary exception.  Eg,
>
> def f1(x):
>   return 1/max(5-x, 0))  # Can raise a divide-by-zero error
>
> integrate(f1, 0, 10, 5)
>
> Java handles that case by saying you don't need to declare
> system exceptions.  

Not exactly true, you do have to check some systems exceptions - all 
those that are not runtime.  Divide by zero, type exceptions, null 
pointer exceptions are all examples of run-time.  For the others see later.

> Then consider
>
> def f2(x):
>   fname = os.path.join("/cache/directory", str(x))
>   if os.path.exists(fname):
>     return float(open(fname, "r").read())
>   y = _f2(x)
>   outfile = open(fname, "w")
>   try:
>     outfile.write(str(y))
>   finally:
>     outfile.close()
>   return y
>
> integrate(f2, 0, 10, 10)
>
> If the file is not readable, or the directory not readable,
> then this might raise an IOError.
>
> How does the 'integrate' function declare that it can raise
> any of the errors that the integrator function 'f' might raise?
>
> Again, IOError might be considered a system-level error
> such that it doesn't need declaring.  

IOError is a checked exception - if you want to do IO then you need to 
wrap it in a try catch or throw it to your caller.  This is because IO 
is inherently fault prone and you should be thinking about exceptions 
and unusual cases when doing IO.  However in Java, this sometimes falls 
over for example - ByteOutputStream, writes to a byte array - because it 
inherits OutStream, the read and write functions declare IOException 
which means you do sometimes have to write a meaningless try catch for 
this (its memory copying, won't fail due to IO).

> Then change it to
> polling some URL ("http://cache.server/" + str(x)) when the
> network is down, or getting it from some SQL database when
> the password is incorrect, or anything else that cannot be
> determined until actually calling f().

The first case uses OutputStream, checked exception - the second case 
uses JDBC which also has checked exceptions.

>
> It looks like the only thing to do is convert all such
> unhandled exceptions and wrap them in a catch-all generic
> exception.  I think I've seen people do that.  But if so,
> what's the point of having typed exceptions?

    Any java developer who does that should get pulled up at code review 
time, the only time I could ever recommend that is in a top level call 
when you want to catch all exceptions, log them and then apologise to 
the user profusely that your program screwed up!! 

>
> Curiously-y'rs,
>
>                 Andrew
>                 dalke at dalkescientific.com
>
    On a general point, the python/adults thingy that is often said - if 
followed correctly - removes the need for checked exceptions - if 
everyone coded correctly then you wouldn't need it.  However, I do find 
it frustrating that in a lot of python docs - the exceptions that can be 
thrown are not documented.  I know there are obvious null pointers, key 
errors and type exceptions but for example - what exceptions are thrown 
if I call socket.recv(1024) when there are no characters for me to 
receive??  The only way to determine this is to try it.  I miss a level 
of comfort that means that there may be a case which I haven't thought 
of which could cause my code to go kablooeee.  Eiffel's programming by 
contract goes one step further...

Cheers,

Neil





From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Fri Nov  5 16:05:48 2004
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 13:05:48 -0800
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>

Maurice LING <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote in message news:<418b27a1$1 at news.unimelb.edu.au>...
> 1st of all, I thought it is somehow common knowledge that python is 
> slower than java in many cases. Though I may be wrong... When I do a 
> Google search, this came up...
> 
> http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/python-vs-java.html

Apart from the execution speed comparison, did you note that the
author took 4 x the time to write the Java, even though he had much
more Java experience than Python? Did you note that he severely bagged
Java reliability?

In any case, this article is comparing Python 1.5.2 and Java JDK 1.1
-- what does that tell you? If you need a clue, look at the date at
the bottom of the article; looks like 4.5 years old to me. Do you
think that either or both languages might have changed a little since
then?

Or is this a joke/troll?? I can't believe the "unimelb.edu.au"; surely
a forgery.

> 
> although http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/~prechelt/Biblio/jccpprtTR.pdf 
> showsjust the opposite.
> 
> What I need to work on now is something that requires speed (and dealing 
> with files), without user's intervention. So the part about users' delay 
> time is not in the equation. My choices boils down to Python or Java.
> 
> Cheers
> maurice


From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Tue Nov 16 11:42:57 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:42:57 GMT
Subject: Idiom for default values when unpacking a tuple
Message-ID: <l6qmd.34062$Zr3.23130@fe1.texas.rr.com>

I'm trying to manage some configuration data in a list of tuples, and I
unpack the values with something like this:

configList = [
    ("A",1,2,3),
    ("F",1,3,4),
    ("X",2,3,4),
    ("T",1,5,4),
    ("W",6,3,4),
    ("L",1,3,8),
    ]
for data in configList:
    name,a,b,c = data
    ... do something with a,b, and c

Now I would like to add a special fourth config value to "T":
    ("T",1,5,4,0.005),

and I would like to avoid having to put 0's or None's in all of the others.
Is there a clean Python idiom for unpacking a tuple so that any unassigned
target values get a default, or None, as in:

    tup = (1,2)
    a,b,c = tup

gives a = 1, b = 2, and c = None.

I've tried creating a padUnpack class, but things aren't quite clicking...

TIA,
-- Paul




From amk at amk.ca  Tue Nov  2 09:34:20 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 08:34:20 -0600
Subject: OT: Ruby programmers use Python
References: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>
	<sqednYEeQbsozBncRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5728.1099211579.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.31.18.43.39.352636@large.net>
	<ZoydnWBxGZHHDxjcRVn-jg@speakeasy.net>
	<1gmkh2e.14hbem8agi1ieN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fZedndpO3b9xBxrcRVn-2Q@speakeasy.net>

On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:06:10 +0200, 
	Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Sounds like a pretty safe bet to me, in general terms.  I'm not quite
> sure how fully a 'plain vanilla HTML' page can be controlled,
> looks-wise, with CSS only, ...

Quite far; you can now do columnar layouts without any use of tables.  For
example, take a look at
http://www.uwplatt.edu/web/webstandards/slashdot.html, a CSS-based retooling
of Slashdot.  The HTML code is straightforward, using <Hn> for headings and
putting <DIV> in the proper places; everything else is CSS.

--amk


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Mon Nov  8 04:06:05 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 01:06:05 -0800
Subject: yet another recipe on string interpolation
References: <4edc17eb.0411032219.659c1824@posting.google.com>
	<cmdpe5$uem$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0411080106.71d4f3d4@posting.google.com>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message news:<cmdpe5$uem$02$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> As of 2.4b2, the modulo operator is not (not yet, or no longer?) defined, so
> I had to use substitute() instead.

I have downloaded Python 2.4b2 today and looked at the source code for
the Template class. There is no __mod__ method, in contraddiction with 
PEP 292. Is there somebody who knows what happened and the rationale
for the change? Should PEP 292 be updated?

         Michele Simionato


From theller at python.net  Mon Nov 22 03:36:37 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:36:37 +0100
Subject: Wrapping a C library in Python
References: <roy-99F088.20103518112004@reader1.panix.com>
	<e253918f.0411190823.25921d6b@posting.google.com>
	<roy-2665D7.13444420112004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hdnip9ey.fsf@python.net>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:

> loritsch at gmail.com (Michael Loritsch) wrote:
>> If speed of development is your main goal, then I'd use ctypes. 
>> ctypes will dynamically load the library in python code.  At the
>> python code level, you should then do the translation to python types.
>>  No C/C++ coding required.
>
> OK, I decided to give ctypes a try.  After a few false steps (mostly 
> related to sorting out LD_LIBRARY_PATH issues), I got it to work for 
> simple functions.  Once you get your head around how it works, it's 
> pretty neat.
>
> The problem is, I'm at a loss what to do for a slightly more complex 
> case.  The API I'm working with requires that you create a dm_handle 
> which you then pass into all the other calls to establish a context.  
> You start with (approximately):
>
> /*
>  * Create a handle.  The caller must have allocated memory for
>  * the object pointed to by dmh.
>  */
> create_dm_handle (struct dm_handle *dmh);
>
> I don't see how I can do the required memory allocation.  Calling 
> malloc() directly seems kind of scary.  Even if I could do that, doing 
> sizeof (struct dm_handle) won't work in the Python environment.
>
> Am I missing something obvious here?

It's simple.
First, you define the structure:

import ctypes
class dm_handle(ctypes.Structure):
    _fields_ = [....] # whatever is is

Then, create an instance (this will allocate memory internally)

my_handle = cm_handle()

and finally call the function, pssing it a pointer to the structure:

mydll.create_dm_handle(ctypes.byref(my_handle))

Thomas


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Nov  5 11:41:07 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 16:41:07 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: name of a class (WAS two new wrinkles to the general class!)
References: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>
	<kj9eo0hkjem9pbj3pvdbpea6gpl06ighsj@4ax.com>
	<1099537038.677930.245340@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<10oj86oh8nfi8ad@corp.supernews.com>
	<1099585325.926097.5450@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<10ol40eoab73d86@corp.supernews.com>
	<1099661541.557231.222720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041105T173948-127@post.gmane.org>

syd <syd.diamond <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
> On a related note, is there a good way from within a class to get the
> name in the simple form?


Does this work for you?

>>> class C(object):
... 	pass
... 
>>> C().__class__.__name__
'C'

Steve



From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Wed Nov 10 22:20:59 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:20:59 -0500
Subject: distutils and Debian
In-Reply-To: <cmuf87$fm5$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
References: <4192AD69.5040707@sympatico.ca>
	<slrncp5cf6.v8.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<qeGdnUA1FNXrJw_cRVn-oA@giganews.com> <cmuf87$fm5$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <NPSdnfYgfbIHRw_cRVn-gw@giganews.com>

Robert Kern wrote:

> only depend on the main python package. Most packages that need Python 
> *don't* need distutils or the C headers or the static library.

The *devel* branch in my interpretation means the distribution
that contains the files used during the development of the
application itself. For example the C headers
that you mention.

But it should not mean removing support
for installing new scripts for the runtime
application!

Distutils is primarily about installing and distributing
python programs and it has little to do with developing
python itself. Some packages will not
be installable without the devel branch but removing
distutils to head off that situation seems very odd.

Istvan.


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov 16 15:46:28 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:46:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: get function arguments
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7BF1@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
Message-ID: <loom.20041116T214203-303@post.gmane.org>

Batista, Facundo <FBatista <at> uniFON.com.ar> writes:
> [Steven Bethard]
> #- >>> def myFunc(a,b,c='default'):
> #- ...  pass
> #- ...
> #- >>> myFunc.func_code.co_varnames
> #- ('a', 'b', 'c')
> #- 
> How do you do that from *inside* the function?

I'm not clear exactly what it is you're looking to do here -- could you
elaborate?  If you're writing the function yourself, don't you know what
arguments you wrote up in the def statement?

I'm hesitant to guess what it is you intend, but if you're just looking for the
string names, this might work for you:

>>> def myFunc(a,b,c='default'):
... 	print locals().keys()
... 
>>> myFunc(1, 2)
['a', 'c', 'b']

My guess though is that if this is what you want, you might have a design
problem there...  You should also be wary that this only really works in the
first line of the function (or at least until you create another name in the
function).

Steve




From Qianqian.Fang at Dartmouth.Edu  Tue Nov 23 17:08:03 2004
From: Qianqian.Fang at Dartmouth.Edu (Qianqian Fang)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 14:08:03 -0800
Subject: Python GTK import error
Message-ID: <b7420408.0411231408.38c2f03a@posting.google.com>

hi 

I installed Fedora Core 2 in my desktop and it has been running
flawlessly in the last few months until I upgraded some packages
(gtk/gtk-devel/python) to the latest version via apt-get. Now, when I
execute any system configuration gui program, i.e.
/usr/bin/system-config-*, it raises an error message as follows:

File "/usr/src/build/375621-i386/install/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/__init__.py",
line 43, in ?
ImportError: /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0: undefined symbol:
atk_object_add_relationship

(the top line may vary, but the last line is the same for all of them)
and the script exits after the error.

I don't know if anybody met this before, and how can I fix it? 
thank you very much!

Qianqian


From uche at ogbuji.net  Fri Nov 12 17:44:02 2004
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 14:44:02 -0800
Subject: document as child in DOM ??
References: <mailman.5827.1099417246.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<d116fbae.0411061843.2aea78b1@posting.google.com>
	<2c60a528.0411080154.1724f56@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d116fbae.0411121444.40aa4afa@posting.google.com>

and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover) wrote in message news:<2c60a528.0411080154.1724f56 at posting.google.com>...
> Uche Ogbuji <uche at ogbuji.net> wrote:
> 
> [on reparenting the root element]
> 
> > 4) root_dom.documentElement = new_docelem
> 
> Unfortunately documentElement is a readonly property, so this won't
> fly. (minidom doesn't generate the expected NoModificationAllowedErr,
> but it doesn't perform the replacement either.)
> 
> You'd have to say:
> 
>   root_dom.replaceChild(new_docelem, root_dom.documentElement)

Good point.  I was thinking Domlette, where we ditch DOM's sillier
rules (we're writing an API, not a Web browser) :-)

--Uche


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Nov 28 22:39:35 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 22:39:35 -0500
Subject: A lock that times out but doesn't poll
In-Reply-To: <Spsqd.3779600$yk.580269@news.easynews.com>
References: <slrncq5vvl.61m.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<kJqpd.5108720$ic1.478957@news.easynews.com>
	<uis7sxu95.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<Gr8qd.5826881$6p.937672@news.easynews.com>
	<cocmon$k3c$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<Spsqd.3779600$yk.580269@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <coe5l8$6l1$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Jive wrote:
> [OT]
> I don't draw any distinction between "soft" and "hard" realtime. 
 > I've never seen definitions for those terms that I thought were
 > useful.

The key difference is that one is a binary test, and the other
is not.  As an article writing by Steve Furr of QNX Software
says, "soft real time is a property of the timeliness of a
computation where the value diminishes according to its tardiness"
(but does not drop away completely to zero).

One simple way to look at it is that for a hard realtime system,
a given operation must complete 100% of the time within its
required time constraints or the system is defective, while for
a soft realtime system that value can be less than 100% and the
system is still considered functional.

I doubt any of this is new to you, but I thought I'd throw it
out there just in case.

>>One of the conditions for doing that should
>>probably be that the code is fairly widely used and widely
>>required.
> 
> Why?  If the existing code could be better, why not improve it?

I would guess the best answer to that is "how do we judge
that it's really better?"  And I think the answer to _that_
question is "by getting enough people who are very knowledgeable
in that area to exercise it enough to be able to form an
opinion about it, independent of its sole author." ;-)

>>Why not post it to an appropriate "recipe" page in the fledgling
>>Agile Control Forum site instead?  (http://www.engcorp.com/acf)
>>That way others who *do* work in the machine control field will
>>have an early chance to try out your code, experiment, maybe
>>even improve it, fix bugs,
> 
> Oh, there will be no bugs.

??  What kind of a statement is that?  I can think of only two
possibilities.  Either you are being deliberately provocative,
or you have such an extensive set of unit tests for it that
you feel confident making what would otherwise be a reckless
statement.  Or you are much less experienced than you sound.
_Three_ possibilities.  The three possibilities are ...

Seriously, why are you so confident about that?  Even if
the code were trivial, we're talking *threads* here...

-Peter


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Nov 15 06:12:31 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 06:12:31 -0500
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
In-Reply-To: <slrncpgm80.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<4195419b.303035081@news.oz.net>
	<slrncpgm80.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <cna31t$aom$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> AFAIU the Queue module doesn't block on a full/empty queue when
> a timeout is specified but goes in a loop sleeping and periodically
> checking whether place/items are available. With signals that
> can be sent to a thread the queue could just set an alarm and
> then block as if no timeout value was set and either unblock
> when place/items are available or get signalled when the timeout
> period is over.

I'm fairly sure that the Queue uses an internal Event
(or REvent?) to signal when space or a new item is
available, so I believe your description (and possibly
conclusion) above is wrong.  There should be no
"periodical check", as that would imply polling.  Check
the source if you're interested.

-Peter


From tim.tadh at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 23:07:55 2004
From: tim.tadh at gmail.com (Tim Henderson)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 20:07:55 -0800
Subject: Class Encapsulation Errors in Python 2.3.3
Message-ID: <47f7cc78.0411182007.1b77c2b1@posting.google.com>

Hi i have some errors in my code that i can't find the reason for here
is the error

i have 3 classes:
-Song
-Album
-Artist

Song has 3 pieces of data with getter and setter meathods:
-Name | i.e. song name
-Album
-Artist

Album has 3 pieces of data:
-Songs | a list of Song() instances
-Name
-Artist

Artist has 4 pieces of Data:
-Name
-Songs | a list of Song() instances
-Albums |a list of Album() instances
-unknownAlbum | the album a song is put into if it doesn't have an
album


now the problem arises when i add songs into multiple albums like
this:
Code:
------------------------------------------------
s = Song('song 1')
s2 = Song('song 2')

a = Album('hey')
a.addSong(s)
ab = Album('yeayea')
print a
print ab
ab.addSong(s2)
print
print a
print ab
------------------------------------------------
Output:
************************************************
hey	song 1    hey   | 
yeayea	song 1    hey   |

hey	song 1    hey   | song 2    yeayea   | 
yeayea	song 1    hey   | song 2    yeayea   | 
************************************************

the "hey" album has "song 1" as it is suppose to however so does
"yeayea" even though when "song 1" was put in the album "hey" 'yeayea'
didn't even exist yet.

Why is this happening. I checked the actually memory refrence for each
instance and they are different, these supposidly isolated different
intances of clases are linked for some inexplicable reason.

Does any one know why this is happening and how i can fix it?

cheers
Tim Henderson


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sun Nov 14 09:39:01 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 15:39:01 +0100
Subject: simple recursion help
References: <Gpyed.320058$bp1.6526@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<VUyed.320061$bp1.273357@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<mailman.5375.1098565018.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1tk5gcwt9nead$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Steven Bethard (2004-10-23 21:56 +0100)
> drs <drs <at> remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com> writes:
>> I am looking for a list of all unique strings of length x whose
>> elements are from the set a, b, and c.
> 
> Does anyone know what this operation is called?

"variation with repetition"
(or the "cartesian product": ['a', 'b', 'c'] ** 3)

> It's not permutations or combinations as I understand them since
> permutations and combinations do not allow repetition.

Both of them do allow (because there are two kinds - with and without
repetition - for both of them) (see my other reply in the thread).

Thorsten


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov  8 10:16:51 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 16:16:51 +0100
Subject: psycopg, transactions and multiple cursors
References: <cmnqpk$2gh$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<cmnroq$raf$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<cmnso7$iih$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cmnud5$uph$1@news4.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<cmnvto$p6l$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cmo239$guj$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
Message-ID: <cmo2l2$rcn$02$1@news.t-online.com>

I just found the commit.py example in psycopg's docs (on debian its
installed automatically, but it should be in the source distribution ) - it
shows that what you want is possible. From what I see, it lacks the BEGIN
statement on a cursor, and commits on the connection - so maybe you should
ommit that statement and see what happens.  


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Mon Nov 22 19:35:29 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:35:29 GMT
Subject: Small Database Needed
References: <mailman.6669.1101048884.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<m7-dnTCpSK1MqDzcRVn-sA@rogers.com>
	<FsydnTHKM5qLpzzcRVn-uA@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Xns95AA10305C14JanC@213.118.46.53>

Dan Perl schreef:

> Hope this helps and my apologies for the long formatted links.

They don't have to be _that_ long:

http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=mailman.711.1086704144.6949.python-list%40python.org

http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=405109CE.503%40zoran.com

http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=mailman.255.1073698893.12720.python-list%40python.org



-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From richie at entrian.com  Fri Nov 12 04:47:17 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:47:17 +0000
Subject: Questions pending - please help
In-Reply-To: <200411111110.00909.philippecmartin@sbcglobal.net>
References: <200411111110.00909.philippecmartin@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <ig19p0proohrntu4a0e6aq3p0m94hsmejh@4ax.com>


[Philippe]
> 1) How to I keep my BDB GUI frontend from stepping through all imported python 
> libraries when I debug my code ? I am currently ovewriting user_line and 
> user_return.

Call self.set_next() from user_line().

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com



From rambam at bigpond.net.au  Sat Nov  6 16:04:44 2004
From: rambam at bigpond.net.au (Israel Raj T)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 21:04:44 GMT
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6004.1099753862.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87zn1uwuxh.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>

"Eric S. Johansson" <esj at harvee.org> writes:

> I will argue that we might want to start including in the
> headers of mailing list/newsgroups a dana reference. 

I would argue that this would debase newsgroups even further.


From drew at gremlinhosting.com  Sun Nov 28 17:06:20 2004
From: drew at gremlinhosting.com (Andrew James)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 22:06:20 +0000
Subject: Psycopg2 mirror availability
In-Reply-To: <20041128183515.GA13896@mylene.ghaering.de>
References: <mailman.6848.1101650795.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cElqd.26005$zx1.17571@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
	<m3k6s5kh1l.fsf@g2ctech.com>
	<20041128183515.GA13896@mylene.ghaering.de>
Message-ID: <1101679580.8818.0.camel@odin>

Gerhard,
What's your public key? Your messages are all showing up as having an
invalid signature!

Regards,
Andrew

On Sun, 2004-11-28 at 19:35 +0100, Gerhard Haering wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 28, 2004 at 03:41:10PM -0200, Jorge Godoy wrote:
> > John Fabiani <jfabiani at yolo.com> writes:
> > 
> > > I don't think there is a mirror.  I also can confirm that the site appears
> > > to be down.
> > 
> > Oh, I thought it was a problem with my own connection. 
> 
> No, I'm waiting for fog's response too, because pysqlite (only Subversion until
> now) is also hosted there and I wanted to commit a few changes and make a
> release ...
> 
> -- Gerhard
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
-- 
Andrew James <drew at gremlinhosting.com>



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov 16 15:41:43 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:41:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: get function arguments
References: <cndm3b$lin$1@newshispeed.ch>
	<mailman.6451.1100635452.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<m3mzxho82g.fsf@g2ctech.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041116T213957-477@post.gmane.org>

Jorge Godoy <godoy <at> ieee.org> writes:
> 
> Steven Bethard <steven.bethard <at> gmail.com> writes:
> > I don't know where (if?) the func_code attributes are documented, but you 
> > should be able to figure them out with a little object introspection (e.g. 
> > dir or an editor like PythonWin that does some code completion).
> 
> You could have asked in the interactive prompt as well 

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear.  That's what I meant when I said "you should be
able to figure them out with a little object introspection (e.g. dir..."  The
interactive prompt (and the dir or help function) is almost always the right
answer to find out about object attributes in Python.  =)

Steve



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Nov  3 20:38:41 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 17:38:41 -0800
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5886.1099528488.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5878.1099521520.5135.python-list@python.org>	<10ois9flj489d5e@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.5886.1099528488.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10oj1r6qkn7sf75@corp.supernews.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

>Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>Another possibility is to check the queue in an idle-event handler.  
>>When you place something in the queue, you can call wx.WakeUpIdle() to 
>>ensure that the main thread will do idle processing at its soonest 
>>opportunity.
>>    
>>
>
>The only ugly part about idle handling is that idle handlers are called
>quite often (at least in the wxPython versions I've run).  Specifically,
>whenever I move my mouse over a wxPython app window, idle events are
>streamed to the idle event handler at 30-60 events/second.
>
>Not really a big deal, but something people should know about none the
>less.
>  
>

True enough.  I believe that in most cases, checking a queue for content 
and acting if there's something there should be a fairly negligible 
load, and that typically it's a load that happens only when nothing else 
would be happening anyhow.  But it *is* something to be aware of, and 
one should be at least somewhat cautious about what's done during idle 
processing.  OTOH, it's a bit simpler to implement than creating a 
custom event and installing a handler for that... Not *much* simpler, as 
creating a custom event isn't exactly difficult, but in simple 
circumstances it has its benefits...  :)

(For those unfamiliar with wxPython's/wxWidgets' idle processing -- idle 
events are triggered every time an application's event queue *becomes* 
empty.  This means that if you get a few mouse events, and process them, 
then get a few more and process them... you get an idle event in between 
each batch of mouse events, and possibly between each individual mouse 
event depending on how fast your particular machine processes them.  But 
every time you get an idle event, it's because your app has nothing else 
to deal with at that moment in time.  It also means that if your window 
is in the background and not getting any new events in the queue, the 
queue will never switch from full to empty, and you won't get any idle 
events.  That's what wx.WakeUpIdle() is for -- to simulate the queue 
emptying and thus triggering an idle event.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Thu Nov 18 01:34:06 2004
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:34:06 -0800
Subject: python-dev Summary for 2004-10-01 through 2004-10-15
Message-ID: <419C425E.1080200@ocf.berkeley.edu>

This is a summary of traffic on the `python-dev mailing list`_ from October 01, 
2004 through October 15, 2004.  It is intended to inform the wider Python 
community of on-going developments on the list.  To comment on anything 
mentioned here, just post to `comp.lang.python`_ (or email 
python-list at python.org which is a gateway to the newsgroup) with a subject line 
mentioning what you are discussing. All python-dev members are interested in 
seeing ideas discussed by the community, so don't hesitate to take a stance on 
something.  And if all of this really interests you then get involved and join 
`python-dev`_!

This is the fiftieth summary written by Brett Cannon (Time for my summary
mid-life crisis).

To contact me, please send email to brett at python.org ; I do not have the 
time to keep up on comp.lang.python and thus do not always catch follow-ups 
posted there.

All summaries are archived at http://www.python.org/dev/summary/ .

Please note that this summary is written using reStructuredText_ which can be 
found at http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html .  Any unfamiliar punctuation is 
probably markup for reST_ (otherwise it is probably regular expression syntax 
or a typo =); you can safely ignore it, although I suggest learning reST; it's 
simple and is accepted for `PEP markup`_ and gives some perks for the HTML 
output.  Also, because of the wonders of programs that like to reformat text, I 
cannot guarantee you will be able to run the text version of this summary 
through Docutils_ as-is unless it is from the `original text file`_.

.. _PEP Markup: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0012.html

The in-development version of the documentation for Python can be found at
http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/ and should be used when looking up any
documentation on new code; otherwise use the current documentation as found at
http://docs.python.org/ .  PEPs (Python Enhancement Proposals) are located at 
http://www.python.org/peps/ .  To view files in the Python CVS online, go to 
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/ .  Reported bugs and 
suggested patches can be found at the SourceForge_ project page.

The `Python Software Foundation`_ is the non-profit organization that holds the 
intellectual property for Python.  It also tries to forward the development and 
use of Python.  But the PSF_ cannot do this without donations.  You can make a 
donation at http://python.org/psf/donations.html .  Every penny helps so even a 
small donation (you can donate through PayPal or by check) helps.

.. _python-dev: http://www.python.org/dev/
.. _SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470
.. _python-dev mailing list: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
.. _comp.lang.python: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=comp.lang.python
.. _Docutils: http://docutils.sf.net/
.. _reST:
.. _reStructuredText: http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html
.. _PSF:
.. _Python Software Foundation: http://python.org/psf/

.. contents::

.. _last summary: http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2004-09-16_2004-09-30.html
.. _original text file: http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2004-10-01_2004-10-15.ht



=====================
Summary Announcements
=====================
Sorry for the very late and short summary but I am in extreme crunch mode right 
now with school (partially thanks to a research paper comparing Python to Java) 
and preparing for applications to doctorate programs (any recommendations for 
schools with a good CS dept. and language research would be appreciated). 
Don't expect things to pick up again until the quarter is over (Dec. 9th is my 
last final).


=========
Summaries
=========
----------------------
New module: subprocess
----------------------
Peter ?strand wrote `PEP 324`_ to come up with a platform-independent way to 
create processes.  Originally entitled popen5, it has now been added to the 
stdlib as subprocess.

.. _PEP 324: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0324.html

Contributing threads:
   - `subprocess - updated popen5 module 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-October/049270.html>`__
   - `python/dist/src/Lib subprocess.py,NONE,1.1 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-October/049361.html>`__
   - `Wither docs for the subprocess module? 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-October/049444.html>`__

--------------------
Python 2.4.b1 is out
--------------------
`Python 2.4b1`_ has been released.  As usual please download it, run the test 
suite, and test it with your own code.

.. _Python 2.4b1: http://www.python.org/2.4/

Contributing threads:
   - `2.4b1 release, this Friday (AU time) -- imminent TRUNK FREEZING 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-October/049383.html>`__
   - `RELEASED Python 2.4, beta 1 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-October/049452.html>`__
   - `TRUNK UNFROZEN (release is done) 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-October/049453.html>`__

--------------------------------------
We need a replacement for ConfigParser
--------------------------------------
David Goodger brought forward two patches for ConfigParser he wanted to apply. 
  This quickly brought up the point that ConfigParser's API is not exactly 
optimal.  So the decision was made to field new designs.  If you happen to have 
your own code lying around that handles .ini files nicely then get it cleaned 
up and consider proposing at as a replacement.

Some ideas have already been floated on the list but will have to wait for the 
next summary for mention/discussion.

Contributing threads:
   - `ConfigParser patches 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-October/049167.html>`__


===============
Skipped Threads
===============
- Guidelines for Logging Usage
- Status of undocumented distutils features in 2.4?
- Toward Python's future article
- test_pep263.py is "-kb" in CVS
- python/dist/src/Doc/whatsnew whatsnew24.tex, 1.108, 1.109
- Python on Windows 64bits?
- About the Wise installer on Windows
- Patch wanted
- python/dist/src/Objects unicodeobject.c, 2.228, 2.229
- Minor cookielib changes for 2.4b1
- proposed struct module format code addition
- Cyclic GC issues
     Just don't have the time to summarize this, but a in-depth discussion of 
garbage collection involving extension code and using non-Python structs.
- python-dev Summary for 2004-09-16 through 2004-09-30 [draft]
     Lead to a discussion of executing modules in packages using the new '-m' 
command-line flag.



From jerf at jerf.org  Sat Nov 20 00:37:42 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 00:37:42 -0500
Subject: Recursive regexps?
References: <slrncpsqao.m3p.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
	<mailman.6629.1100907547.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.20.05.37.41.802674@jerf.org>

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:39:02 -0800, James Stroud wrote:
> I dont have a CS degree, but I'm pretty sure that computers can do this sort 
> of thing. It must not be obvious. I'm thinking of patenting the idea (regex 
> engine returns nested matches) and copyrighting the name for it.

The only possible name is Recursive Descent Regular Expressions. 

(CS joke. There are three basic language domains, based on parser power
necessary to recognize it. "Regular Expressions" is the lowest, but the
actual 'regular expression' the math refers to is much, much weaker the re
library, which nowadays is technically on the top level I think since you
can shell out to functions in the middle of an RE operation. A "Recursive
descent parser" is a parser for a subset of the middle class of languages,
the "context-free languages". "Unrestricted grammars" are the top, parsed
by Turing Machines.

Of course, it would be even more accurate to call it "Recursive Descent
Regular Expressions with a side of Turing Completeness" to mix all three
levels, but that's not so catchy for a brand name. Ought to make the
patent office swoon, though.)



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Nov  5 13:24:38 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 19:24:38 +0100
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmgcp1$hpk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncong4u.1tk.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmggel$t2o$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cmggh2$t2o$01$2@news.t-online.com>

> A c++ object created by g++ is total garbage passed to a VC lib that
> appears to

That sentence should be

 
A c++ object created by g++ is total garbage passed to a VC lib that
appears to use the same objects denoted by some headerfile.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From roy at panix.com  Thu Nov 18 20:10:35 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 20:10:35 -0500
Subject: Wrapping a C library in Python
Message-ID: <roy-99F088.20103518112004@reader1.panix.com>

I've got a C library with about 50 calls in it that I want to wrap in 
Python.  I know I could use some tool like SWIG, but that will give me a 
too-literal translation; I want to make some modifications along the way 
to make the interface more Pythonic.

For example, all of these functions return an error code (typically just 
errno passed along, but not always).  They all accept as one of their 
arguments a pointer to someplace to store their result.  I want to 
change all that to returning the result directly and throwing exceptions.

I also want to mutate some of the return types.  A common way these 
functions return a set of values is a pair of arrays of strings, forming 
key-value pairs.  In Python, it would make sense to return this as a 
dictionary.

I know what I'm describing is kind of vague, but are there tools around 
which might help automate (at least in part) this translation process?


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Nov 24 17:05:56 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 23:05:56 +0100
Subject: asynchat and threading
In-Reply-To: <4edc17eb.0411241036.72eed3ef@posting.google.com>
References: <Ij1pd.19554$ld2.4796764@twister.nyc.rr.com>
	<mailman.6755.1101310280.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4edc17eb.0411241036.72eed3ef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41a505c2$0$20660$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Michele Simionato wrote:
> Well, I had just started playing with asynchat, and I would like to
> know
> more about its shortcomings. Are you saying there are bugs in its
> implementation in the standard library? What exactly can go wrong?
> Or it is just ill designed and unconvenient to use?

AFAICT, the main complaint is that it is tied to the TCP transport,
the sockets API, and the select/poll API. IOW, it cannot easily:
- integrate TLS on top of TCP (because TLS might involve no-data
   communications, e.g. when TLS negotation happens in the middle
   of a TLS session),
- integrate other transports, such as serial ports on Windows,
- integrate other multi-endpoint wait APIs, such as IO completion
   ports on Windows NT+, or kqueue on BSD.
It appears that the first limitation is considered the most serious
one, as it doesn't allow to implement networking protocols
independent of the transport protocol (which reportedly is possible
with twisted).

Regards,
Martin


From johnpote at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Nov 11 04:45:43 2004
From: johnpote at blueyonder.co.uk (John Pote)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:45:43 GMT
Subject: Tkinter callback caused abnormal program termination
References: <Ej7kd.5790$Q7.1647@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<mailman.6201.1100071949.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bxGkd.13444$Q7.11882@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>


"Martin Franklin" <mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.6201.1100071949.5135.python-list at python.org...
> On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 17:41:56 GMT, John Pote <johnpote at blueyonder.co.uk> 
> wrote:
>
>> Running my programme in Python 2.3.4 I received the following msg in the
>> consol :-
>> (Pent III running W2K prof)
>>
>> """
>> Exception in Tkinter callback
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "c:\apps\python\234\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1345, in __call__
>>     return self.func(*args)
>>   File "c:\apps\python\234\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 459, in callit
>>     self.deletecommand(tmp[0])
>> AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'deletecommand'
>> UpdateStringProc should not be invoked for type option
>>
>> abnormal program termination
>> """
>> There was no other traceback information.
>>
>> Could this be related to lines of the ilk:-
>>   self.infoSpd.config(text="%d.%01d"%spd)
>> where infoSpd is a Tkinter Label object placed using the grid manager.
>>
>> Thousands of these updates were performed so the labels displayed 
>> progress
>> through a memory dump of a system accessed through a serial port.
>>
>> I had trouble before with Python versions 2.2.1 and 2.2.3 where 
>> commenting
>> out these Label updates stopped the system crashing and it was happy to 
>> run
>> for hours performing tests on the external hardware. (an embedded data
>> logger I'm developing)
>>
>> Anyone any thoughts?
>>
>> John
>
>
> Only one (thought that is)  Are you updating thses Label widgets from 
> other
> threads? and could you possibly post an example?
>
> Martin


Ahhhh  --  Experience had already taught me that lesson about tkinter. On
checking my code guess what I found I'd done - called the widget.config
method from the other thread. So I put in a list to queue the label updates
from the other thread to the tkinter thread and it's now been running for
several hours without problem.

Thanks for the reminder.

BTW the program structure I've been using is:-

def otherThread():
    while TRUE:
        if updatelabel:
            labelQ = "new label text"

def guiLoop():
    if labelQ:
        myLabel.config(text=labelQ)
        labelQ = None
     #re-register this fn to run again
     rootWin.after(10, guiLoop) #strangely .after_idle(guiLoop) is slower!
.
.
rootWin = Tk(className=" tester")

#rest of GUI set up. then:-

 thread.start_new( otherThread, () )
 rootWin.after(50, guiLoop)
 rootWin.mainloop()

It works but is it the best way to do this sort of thing? The point is that
I need moderately fast serial comms, which I do in 'otherThread' and found
the 'after' and 'after_idle' call backs were too slow. The timing I did on
py2.2.1 indicated that 'after_idle' could not do better than ~70ms and
'after(10, ....)' was faster, 30-40 ms, but still too slow for my app.

Any more thoughts appreciated.

John




From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 11:36:17 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:36:17 GMT
Subject: pre-PEP generic objects
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6904.1101802844.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <a8Oqd.110119$V41.14593@attbi_s52>
	<mailman.6904.1101802844.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5k1rd.180375$R05.53770@attbi_s53>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Steven Bethard wrote:
> 
>>Currently, if a Python programmer makes this design decision, they are
>>forced to declare a new class, and then build instances of this class.
> 
> FORCED to create a new class, and FORCED to create instances of
> their own class instead of your class?

I don't see any way to produce the same behavior without *someone* (the 
user or the stdlib) declaring a class.  If you see a way to do this 
without a class declared somewhere, please let me know how...

> without this, Python must surely be unusable.

I definitely agree.  Python without classes would be quite unpleasant to 
use.

>  no wonder nobody's ever managed to use it for anything.

Yeah, I don't think anyone's managed to use Python without classes for 
years, especially since things like int, str, etc. were converted to types.

Steve


From logistix at cathoderaymission.net  Fri Nov 19 10:33:44 2004
From: logistix at cathoderaymission.net (logistix at cathoderaymission.net)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 07:33:44 -0800
Subject: SQL Server stored prcedures with output parameters
References: <mailman.6535.1100768372.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<419CAB0E.1040002@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <3c91a864.0411190733.1f8de68@posting.google.com>

> > 
> Well, in ADO you'd normally create a command object and then do 
> something like
> 
> objCmnd.Parameters.Append.CreateParameter("@link_id", &
> 		adInteger, adParamOutput, , 0)
> 
> Unfortunately as far as I can see the DB API docs are silent on how to 
> distinguish the output parameters to a callproc(), contenting itself 
> with saying """The result of the call is returned as modified copy of 
> the input sequence. Input parameters are left untouched, output and 
> input/output parameters replaced with possibly new values."""
> 

You need to create the parameter seperately so you get a reference to
it.  My ADO is a little rusty, but it's something like:

outparam = win32com.client.Dispatch("ADODB.Paramter")
# set param here instead of function
objCmd.Parameters.Append(outparam)

Then you can access outparam after executing the stored proc.


From clarence at silcom.com  Tue Nov  2 13:07:23 2004
From: clarence at silcom.com (Clarence Gardner)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 10:07:23 -0800
Subject: getting socket.bind() exception, but no actual error
References: <1224a8f9.0411011045.6740c5d8@posting.google.com>
	<RSxhd.2736$931.635@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <1224a8f9.0411021007.26ec80da@posting.google.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message news:<RSxhd.2736$931.635 at lakeread01>...
> Clarence Gardner wrote:
> > I've got a problem that I don't see how to program around. A socket server
> > that was running fine, today started getting an exception from the bind()
> > call (errno 22, Invalid argument) and yet the bind had actually worked.

> Is it possible you already have a process bound to that port, and that 
> process is handling the incoming connections?
> 
> Otherwise it sounds a little bizarre. In fact even my own attempt at 
> explaining doesn't ring true because on Win2k, at least, a second bind 
> will raise (10048, 'Address already in use'), and I get a similar error 
> on Linux. Rats.
And the whole point of the test in the exception handling suite (checking
for "in use") is to repeat the bind until that's not the case. This is, of
course, in a program in development which sometimes is not able to be 
restarted right away after a problem.
 
> I take it this code has been copied and pasted? For example, if the host 
Yep, that's the actual code. Of course, in this actual case, the error it's
getting has no bad effect, because there's no actual problem (and subsequent
operations on that socket proceed normally).

But it remains an odd problem. Clearly from a programming point of view,
one has to assume that an exception actually indicates a problem!


From jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  1 16:13:44 2004
From: jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1)
Date: 1 Nov 2004 13:13:44 -0800
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c718a6cf.0411011313.fc2969d@posting.google.com>

Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> wrote in message news:<2uh4j7F2a86uqU1 at uni-berlin.de>...
> Hello,
> 
> another Perl/Python question: the subject says it all.
> 
> Perl is going to change dramatically to become a more powerful and
> easier to (read|write) language.
> 
> Is Python taking a similar step (-> Python 3) some time in the near future?
> 
> Reinhold

nice troll bait . . .

Python has always been the most READABLE and WRITABLE language, and
will continue to be extremely MAINTANCE friendly.

Perl has always been a WRITE only, MAINTANCE nightmare language. For
MANY reasons.
Nothing in the Perl 6 docs leads me to believe that it will be any
less cryptic and obfuscated and propeller head appealing than 5. More
complicated if anything.


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Nov 10 16:13:00 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:13:00 -0600
Subject: Combine two dictionaries into a list of 3-tuples
In-Reply-To: <cmu004$j6q$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
References: <cmu004$j6q$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <20041110211257.GB13148@unpythonic.net>

How about
    [(k, v, two[v]) for k, v in one.items()]
or
    [(k, v, two[v]) for k, v in one.items() if k in two]
or
    [(k, v, two.get(v, None)) for k, v in one.items()]
depending on what you want to do when a key doesn't exist in "two"

Jeff
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From peter at somewhere.com  Mon Nov 29 13:53:23 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 19:53:23 +0100
Subject: Protecting Python source
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6877.1101742321.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <f4a45085.0411260701.5859bf43@posting.google.com>	<lnSpd.18976$Km6.232360@news4.e.nsc.no>	<coesrc$24i$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<mailman.6877.1101742321.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cofrqd$1d5$1@swifty.westend.com>

Craig Ringer schrieb:
> On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 18:04, Peter Maas wrote:
> 
> 
>>I can think of 3 reasons to prevent tampering:
[...]
> My understanding is that that's never guaranteed safe, no? Or are
> restrictions against reverse engineering now commonly enforcable?

It's not guaranteed but if protection works in 99.9% of all instal-
lations it makes sense, at least if you are not producing highly
visible software like Windows.

Reverse engineering may be possible but in most cases it is a huge
effort. Think of the samba project which builds Windows server
software by analyzing network packets and this is probably easier
than to analyze machine code.

If the "reverse engineering" argument boils down to "protecting source
doesn't make sense" then why does Microsoft try so hard to  protect
its sources?

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From as006d4848 at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Nov 22 16:53:03 2004
From: as006d4848 at blueyonder.co.uk (Philip Smith)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:53:03 GMT
Subject: Trouble with psyco
References: <mailman.6696.1101134159.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3dtod.21538$08.14710@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

I too am a psyco convert but have found it handles Longs very well. 
Interestingly, using a crude factoring algorithm, I tested essentially the 
same code in C and Python/Psycho - what took 8 seconds in C (factoring a 30 
digit integer) took something like .02 seconds in Python/Psyco.  Doesn't 
make sense but I shan't complain.  The problem I have with psycho is that it 
crashes ActivePython - anyone know why? (version 2.3)

Phil
"Jp Calderone" <exarkun at divmod.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.6696.1101134159.5135.python-list at python.org...
> On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 02:07:46 -0800, Dick Moores <rdm at rcblue.com> wrote:
>>psyco is acting a bit psycho for me.
>>
>> Please see my spinForWeb.py at 
>> <http://www.rcblue.com/Python/spinForWeb.py>
>>
>> When psyco is in use, entering an integer somewhere between 2000 and 2500
>> causes my computer to freeze. Not really freeze but the program doesn't
>> finish, and I have to quit with a ^Q.
>>
>> psyco is really impressive, but I'm disappointed that I can't demonstrate
>> (to friends) counting with it to numbers above 2 billion.
>>
>> If I remark out the "psyco.bind(spin)" line, there's no problem no matter
>> what integer I enter. Can someone explain what the problem with psyco is?
>>
>> Windows XP, Python 2.3.4
>>
>> Thanks,
>
>  I added a print to your inner loop:
>
>      while k < max:
>          k += 1
>          if not (k % 1000000L):
>              print 'at', k
>
>  Progress is regularly reported, but it is quite, quite slow.  So the 
> problem is not that psyco is breaking your program.  Neither is it 
> speeding anything up though, and in fact seems to be slowing it down over 
> some sets of data.
>
>  When you cross sys.maxint (a bit above 2 billion, usually), internally 
> Python stops storing integers as platform-native data types and switches 
> to a data type which can grow almost without bound.  Since this new data 
> type isn't native to your architecture, every operation on it is vastly 
> slower, but Python must switch because the platform-native data type 
> cannot take on the values you are asking.
>
>  Python works very hard to make each loop around its evaluator.  You're 
> asking it to get around quite a few times, doing very little _actual_ work 
> each time.  This is one of the worst cases for performance in Python.
>
>  With the psyco version, the call to spin() is effectively made into a 
> single operation, as far as the interpreter loop is concerned.  That's 
> part of why it's so much faster - instead of one loop around the 
> interpreter per "k += 1", it's just one loop around the interpreter.  Big 
> difference.  But you've discovered one of the costs associated with this - 
> Control-C generally sends SIGINT to the process: Python notices this and 
> sets a flag which will _later_ cause KeyboardInterrupt to be raised.  In 
> this case, with psyco enabled, "later" happens when spin() returns, 
> because calling spin() was just one operation, as far as Python is 
> concerned.
>
>  Without psyco, "later" happens very frequently, almost constantly even, 
> and so Control-C generally has an instant effect.
>
>  Hope this helps,
>
>  Jp 




From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 16:46:02 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:46:02 -0200
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
	number of output arguments)
In-Reply-To: <30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <864d37090411171346d00ef54@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:49:03 +1300, Greg Ewing
<greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
> Maybe things would be better if we had "dict unpacking":
> 
>    a, c, b = {'a': 1, 'b': 2, 'c': 3}
> 
> would give a == 1, c == 3, b == 2. Then we could
> accept outputs by keyword as well as inputs...

Dicts are not the best way to make it, because they are not ordered
:-) But perhaps we could have something like "named tuples"; immutable
objects, like tuples, with the property that a unique name can be
associated to every item.  Couple it with a decorator, and it can be
written like this:

@returns('year','month','day')
def today():
    ...
    return year, month, day

The return of this function would be a 'named tuple'. It could be
treated like a sequence (using __getitem__), or like a dict (using
__getattr__). This way, we could have the best of both worlds; the
simplicity of tuples and the convenience of named attribute access.

(warning: now I am going to give myself enough rope to hang everyday
in my life... and please, flames off :-)

What if 'named tuples' were supported natively? Entering into pre-PEP
mode (a really dangerous thing to do), the idea is that a sequence
could have a __names__ property, that would contain a tuple of names.
On __set__, this property would automatically build a hash using the
names & and the tuple contents. On __get__, it would simply return a
tuple. (I think that it is better to expose the __names__ attribute as
a tuple, and not as a dict; it's clean, more tuple-like, and hides a
lot of the complexity).

(BTW, I still think that using tuples is convenient, flexible, and as
loosely coupled as it can get. But having named access is also
convenient sometimes).

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From kosh at aesaeion.com  Sun Nov  7 00:15:16 2004
From: kosh at aesaeion.com (kosh)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 22:15:16 -0700
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <82C46454-2FE4-11D9-8959-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au> <418C7DCB.60502@acm.org>
	<82C46454-2FE4-11D9-8959-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200411062215.16235.kosh@aesaeion.com>

On Saturday 06 November 2004 4:10 am, Alex Martelli wrote:
> with Python 2.4 beta 1 for the roughly equivalent:
>
> inputFile = file("/usr/share/dict/web2", 'r')
> outputFile = file("/tmp/acopy", 'w')
>
> outputFile.write(inputFile.read())
>
> inputFile.close()
> outputFile.close()
>

I think a generator version works even better. I did tests at various files 
sizes and overall the generator one was better and it was vastly better at 
large file sizes and overall the generator one also impacted the system less. 
The regular version which reads the whole file at once get really bad with 
large files especially if the system is being used.

I suspect the generator version should work with any size file that the os is 
capable of working with and should be resource friendly at any size.

Just thought the generator version would be a good comparison to the java 
version and strangely enough in many cases it is actually faster then the 
regular version. :)

Generator Version:
    inputFile = file("/home/kosh/KNOPPIX_V3.6-2004-08-16-EN.iso", 'r')
    outputFile = file("/tmp/acopy", 'w')

    outputFile.writelines(inputFile)

    inputFile.close()
    outputFile.close()
    
Regular Version:
    inputFile = file("/home/kosh/temp.txt", 'r')
    outputFile = file("/tmp/acopy", 'w')

    outputFile.write(inputFile.read())

    inputFile.close()
    outputFile.close()

The timing was done with python 2.3.4 on debian/sid    
    

Large File Test:
File Copied: 733499392 KNOPPIX_V3.6-2004-08-16-EN.iso

     Real       User      Sys
Gen  0m33.478s  0m4.302s  0m3.542s
Reg  2m28.029s  0m0.010s  0m4.992s  *
Reg  0m34.913s  0m0.009s  0m4.713s

* This is how long the first run took. The machine swapped
heavily. The Other time is for subsequent runs. This method
overall uses a massive ammount of ram.


Memory Usage:
    
     Virt   Res    Shr    
Gen  3816K  2364K  2524K 
Reg  703M   700M   2524K

Small File Test

File Copied: 2754459 Zope-2.7.2-0.tgz

     Real       User      Sys
Gen  0m0.049s   0m0.023s  0m0.014s
Reg  0m0.037s   0m0.009s  0m0.019s


Tiny File Test:

File Copied: 205 May temp.txt

     Real       User      Sys
Gen  0m0.012s   0m0.007s  0m0.005s
Reg  0m0.028s   0m0.009s  0m0.003s


From export at hope.cz  Fri Nov 12 15:29:57 2004
From: export at hope.cz (Lad)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 12:29:57 -0800
Subject: web hosting with Python
References: <3cccb1d8.0411101416.690960c3@posting.google.com>
	<6f402501.0411110147.69ef6800@posting.google.com>
	<41934648$0$48933$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<6f402501.0411120034.6205f801@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <81a41dd.0411121229.1f8cd8a7@posting.google.com>

fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord) wrote in message news:<6f402501.0411120034.6205f801 at posting.google.com>...
> Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:<41934648$0$48933$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl>...
> > Michael Foord wrote:
> > > http://www.sapphiresoft.co.uk
> > > are very good. (Good python support, python 2.3.4).
> > 
> > It doesn't say so on their website, it appears a PHP shop...
> > Or am I looking with my eyes closed?
> > 
> > --Irmen
> 
> Oh and mod_python as well..........
> 
> Regards,
> 
It looks very interesting. Do they allow SSH/Telnet access and Cron?
Lad


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Nov 24 08:20:43 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 14:20:43 +0100
Subject: Using alternative PyObject* in dynamically created classes
References: <tyfbrdu1b2m.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyf653whfyi.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch> <brdowta0.fsf@python.net>
	<tyfu0rgfr76.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <tyfpt23fkno.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:

> Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:
> 
> > Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:

...

> > Can't you simply create a new, subclassable Python type with an
> > additonal void* slot, and derive your classes from it?  Where's the
> > problem?
> 
> You mean statically create an extension type with the appropriate size
> in the tp_basicsize, and dynamically create types which inherit from
> it?
> 
> Sounds like it should work.
> 
> I'll give it a go, as I now see that my initial approach is guaranteed
> to be wrong.

Given that type_new builds the contents of the tp_basicsize slot on
the basis of the supreclass's tp_basicsize, it seems that setting the
size in a superclass is the only way of getting some non-standard size
in there, without re-writing the whole of type_new.

So, I tried this approach. It works.


From PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com  Tue Nov  2 10:16:41 2004
From: PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com (Marco Aschwanden)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 16:16:41 +0100
Subject: Test a Python function within Python without importing
References: <mailman.5808.1099406409.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm87q1$3nn$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <opsgufd3db35jo5o@news.gmane.org>

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 16:06:42 +0100, Diez B. Roggisch <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> 
wrote:

> use exec on the compiled object - the details are in the docs.

I did it... but exec() does not return a value - or does it?




From programmer.py at gmail.com  Tue Nov  2 12:15:43 2004
From: programmer.py at gmail.com (Jaime Wyant)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 11:15:43 -0600
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
In-Reply-To: <cthoeigtdun.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
References: <cthoeigtdun.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
Message-ID: <d52c72d20411020915175a6cad@mail.gmail.com>

I needed to do the same thing and ended up defining a custom event to
post back to the mainframe.  You can get instructions on implementing
custom events in wxPython at the wxWiki here ->

http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/CustomEventClasses

If you need more help, just bark.

jw

On 02 Nov 2004 17:28:16 +0100, Zunbeltz Izaola
<zunbeltz at wm.lc.ehu.es.xxx> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I've an wxPython windows that creates a thread. An object of this
> thread raised an exception and i want to cach it in the main thread,
> that of the windows (I want this becouse the first implementation
> doesn't use thread). I know that exception can not be pass between
> thread.
> 
> I've read something about wraping the run() method of the threaded
> object in a try/except block and save the exception for inspection ,
> but i don't know how to implement it. Can you give me and advice?
> 
> TIA
> 
> Zunbeltz
> 
> --
> Zunbeltz Izaola Azkona                    |  wmbizazz at lg dot ehu
> dotes
> Materia Kondentsatuaren Fisika Saila      |
> Zientzia eta Teknologia Fakultatea        |  Phone: 34946015326
> Euskal Herriko Unibertsitatea             |
> PK 644                                    |  Fax:   34 944648500
> 48080 Bilbo (SPAIN)                       |
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Mon Nov  8 18:33:01 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 15:33:01 -0800
Subject: Determining combination of bits
In-Reply-To: <cmoqvv$68r$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <x3Qjd.121786$hj.41260@fed1read07>
	<mailman.6124.1099945664.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8KQjd.121796$hj.4674@fed1read07> <418ff674$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<p7Sjd.5365$F6.1280593@news.siol.net>
	<cmoqvv$68r$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <41901545$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

I wrote:
 > def bits(n):
 >        assert n >= 0 # This is an infinite loop if n < 0
 >        while n:
 >            lsb = n & -b
 >            yield lsb
 >            n ^= lsb

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>>A lapse of mind?
>>>>>n = 6
>>>>>n & (-n)
>>2

Stupid typo, should be:
     def bits(n):
         assert n >= 0 # This is an infinite loop if n < 0
         while n:
             lsb = n & -n  ### Here was ... & -b, which is clearly wrong
             yield lsb
             n ^= lsb

list(bits(6)) == [2, 4]
sum(bits(6)) == 6
list(bits(5000)) == [8, 128, 256, 512, 4096]
sum(bits(5000)) == 5000

> Albeit I have to admit that I didn't know the trick.
In fact I wouldn't know it if I hadn't worked on ancient machines
with "exposed guts".  One machine (a PDP-8, if I remember correctly)
did not have a "negate" operation.  Instead you did, "ones complement
(OCA) and increment (INA)".  Note that a ones complement turns all of
the least significant zeros to ones, and the least significant one to
a zero.  When you increment that the carry propagates back to the 0 for
the least one.  The carry stops there.  This will exactly match all the
low bits, and none of the bits above the least significant 1.  For the
least significant 1 bit, the calculation is 1 == 1 & 1,
for the others it is one of  0 == 0&1 == 1&0 == 0&0

Sample:
         123456 = ...000 011 110 001 001 000 000
        ~123456 = ...111 100 001 110 110 111 111
      1+~123456 = ...111 100 001 110 111 000 000

         123456 = ...000 011 110 001 001 000 000
        -123456 = ...111 100 001 110 111 000 000
123456^-123456 = ...000 000 000 000 001 000 000


From sean.berry2 at cox.net  Tue Nov  9 00:06:31 2004
From: sean.berry2 at cox.net (news.west.cox.net)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 21:06:31 -0800
Subject: Determining combination of bits
References: <x3Qjd.121786$hj.41260@fed1read07>
	<mailman.6124.1099945664.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8KQjd.121796$hj.4674@fed1read07> <418ff674$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <2gYjd.245323$a85.1830@fed1read04>


"Scott David Daniels" <Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org> wrote in message 
news:418ff674$1 at nntp0.pdx.net...
> Sean Berry wrote:
>> Just to set everyone's mind at ease... I haven't had a homework 
>> assignment for about four years now.
> OK, then here's a great little bit of education:
>

Better than the education I got at UCSB...

>    n & -n == least significant bit of n
>
> So, for example:
>
>     def bits(n):
>         assert n >= 0 # This is an infinite loop if n < 0
>         while n:
>             lsb = n & -b
>             yield lsb
>             n ^= lsb
>

Perfect.  This not only does exactly what I wanted... but I have just 
started to learn about generators, and this does great.

Thank you very much for the help everyone.




> -Scott David Daniels
> Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org 




From carl_bevilNOSPAM at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 17 20:10:36 2004
From: carl_bevilNOSPAM at yahoo.com (Carl Bevil)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:10:36 -0800
Subject: Custom memory manager
Message-ID: <aOydnfnY_fMPawbcRVn-3A@speakeasy.net>

Hello all.  If I want to use a custom memory manager to, say, track memory 
allocations in Python, what's the best way to do this?  I seem to remember 
there being a way in version 1.5 (or so -- been a while since I used it).  I 
didn't see anything in the documentation, but I may have missed it.

I've got the Python source code (v2.3.3) embedded in my application (which is 
in C++), and would like to somehow override Python's default memory 
allocators.  Is there an easy or "accepted" way to do this?

Thanks!

Carl

--
Remove "NOSPAM" to reply in e-mail



From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 30 07:55:21 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 07:55:21 -0500
Subject: slicing, mapping types, ellipsis etc.
In-Reply-To: <41ac5701$0$25761$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
References: <m34qj8e5yd.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
	<41ac5701$0$25761$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <41ac6c55$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>

Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Jerry Sievers wrote:
> 
>> Fellow Pythonists;
>>
>> I am totally puzzled on the use of slicing on mapping types and
> 
> 
> It's generally not supported (since slices are designed to work with the 
> numerical indices of a sequence, not the arbitrary keys of a mapping).

Section 5.3.3 of the Language Reference seems to say that with extended 
slicing, the slice elements are used to create a key that indexes a 
mapping. "The semantics for an extended slicing are as follows. The 
primary must evaluate to a mapping object, and it is indexed with a key 
that is constructed from the slice list, as follows."

 From my understanding of this thread so far, extended slicing is used 
as a form of indexing in Numeric. Are Numeric arrays considered 
mappings? Or is this paragraph in 5.3.3 off the mark?

Maybe instead of referring to mappings it should say "The primary must 
implement __getitem__(), which is called with a value that is 
constructed from the slice list, as follows."

Kent


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sun Nov 14 16:40:20 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 15:40:20 -0600
Subject: numarray memory leak
In-Reply-To: <cn8h0f$n9$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk> (Peter Dobcsanyi's message of "14
	Nov 2004 20:59:59 GMT")
References: <cn6fk4$akl$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk> <cn6hpm$m5b$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<cn780v$ho6$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk>
	<mailman.6350.1100446504.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cn8h0f$n9$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <m3k6so2jp7.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "Peter" == Peter Dobcsanyi <peter at designtheory.org> writes:

    Peter> Indeed, I tried the CVS version and that fixed the problem;
    Peter> for me, at least. I am a bit worried about the users of my
    Peter> package depending on numarray. Most of them would not be
    Peter> able (or willing to) pull down the CVS tree.

You might ask on the numpy-discussion list when the release of
numarray 1.2 is expected.  My guess is it won't be too long from now.
If it is going to be a while and this is a serious problem for your
package, you have the option of tarring up CVS yourself and/or
building a win32 installer and linking to this on your site for users
concerned about memory leaks.

There is a section of matplotlib code that depends on matrix multiply,
and I have this FAQ for memory leaks

   http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/faq.html#LEAKS

JDH


From alain.marcel at svd-info.fr  Tue Nov  2 04:15:37 2004
From: alain.marcel at svd-info.fr (Alain)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 01:15:37 -0800
Subject: Error import PyWinTypes24.dll
References: <a4686a1f.0410280422.7e7cddb7@posting.google.com>
	<abqdnVmCjpR4xh_cRVn-rw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <a4686a1f.0411020115.3265cc72@posting.google.com>

Hi !

The solution is simply to import PyWinTypes before any win32 import.
This realizes the magic!

Thanks.


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Nov 30 10:06:30 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:06:30 -0500
Subject: Protecting Python source
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6927.1101825487.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <f4a45085.0411260701.5859bf43@posting.google.com>	<lnSpd.18976$Km6.232360@news4.e.nsc.no>	<coesrc$24i$1@swifty.westend.com>	<mailman.6877.1101742321.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cofrqd$1d5$1@swifty.westend.com>	<41ab74f4$0$85031$a1866201@visi.com>	<cohcug$ert$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<mailman.6927.1101825487.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <coi28l$rkv$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Gustavo C?rdova Avila wrote:
> Peter Maas wrote:
> 
>> Grant Edwards schrieb:
>>
>>> On 2004-11-29, Peter Maas <peter at somewhere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If the "reverse engineering" argument boils down to "protecting source
>>>> doesn't make sense" then why does Microsoft try so hard to  protect
>>>> its sources?
>>>
>>>
>>> To avoid embarassment.
>>
>>
>> :) This cannot be the whole truth otherwise they wouldn't release
>> embarrasing binaries.
> 
> BWAAHHAHAHA!!!
> 
> Damn you!! Coke is so hard to clean off a keyboard!!

Yeah, I hate the way the powder builds up between the keys.

Oh.

You meant the _drink_...

-Peter


From kepes.krisztian at peto.hu  Tue Nov 23 09:50:46 2004
From: kepes.krisztian at peto.hu (kepes.krisztian)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:50:46 +0100
Subject: SOS - unicode problems...
Message-ID: <41A34E46.80909@peto.hu>

Hi !

I use iso-8859-2 chrset (win1250), because I'm hungarian.

I create an audio tagger program in the past, but I found a problem in it.

I have the problem in the unicode string handling.

The error line is that:

nfn=track+\'/\'+alb+\'/\'+title+\'.mp3\'

It is concat the substrings for file rename.
Some of these string items are unicode, some of these not.
So I want to set unicode for all items before that line.
alb=unicode(alb)
# alb=\'Z?rr\' (album value is 'Z?rr', where ? is o: (/xf6), a hung. 
character).
# it is came from a filename !

But it is drop error !

See this example that show the problem:

s=\'Z?rr\'
s=u\'x\'+s+u\'y\'
print s

or

s='Z\xf6rr'
s=u'x'+s+u'y'
print s


It is drop an error.
How to prevent this error, and convert (concat) the substrings to good 
unicode string.

Please help me !
Thanx for it:
KK


From mike at hobbshouse.org  Tue Nov  2 10:31:36 2004
From: mike at hobbshouse.org (Michael Hobbs)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 15:31:36 -0000
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<uef2o0dkckqmnifgpt78n3sg8ai6a1g05c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <10ofa2o9f2ea571@corp.supernews.com>

Andrea Griffini <agriff at tin.it> wrote:
> You didn't mention C++. Try this ...
> 
>   std::string s = "Wow";
>   s += 3.141592654; // Perfectly valid
>   s = 3.141592654;  // Also valid

Those automatic coercions are always handy when writing code, but a
pain in the @$$ when reading it. I can't count the number of times
that I stepped through C++ code, saying "what the ...?", only to 
realize that there was some perlish 'operator +=(const **' statement
tucked away in a header file somewhere. Good riddance, I say. (My
code only overrides the __or__ operator. ;-)

-- Mike


From mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net  Mon Nov 29 03:30:41 2004
From: mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net (Jean Brouwers)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 08:30:41 GMT
Subject: wxStyledTextCtrl problem ?
References: <pan.2004.11.28.12.10.30.74527@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<291120040011546030%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>
Message-ID: <291120040032189449%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>


Here is the recent thread about this particular problem:

<http://lists.wxwidgets.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm-cgi?11:mss:33225:200410:lfppnf
okhnlgfialpfdh>

/Jean Brouwers


In article <291120040011546030%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net>,
Jean Brouwers <mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net> wrote:

> If you are running GTK+ try using
> 
>         self.Editor.SetSTCFocus(True)
> 
> in addition to or instead of SetFocus().  Plus maybe
> 
>         wx.CallAfter(self.Editor.EnsureCaretVisible)
> 
> It solved the 'dissapearing caret' problem for our application.
> 
> 
> /Jean Brouwers
> 
> 
> 
> In article
> <pan.2004.11.28.12.10.30.74527 at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>,
> Paul Robson <autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > I have a wierd thing with a little editor app I'm writing.
> > 
> > I'm using wxStyledTextCtrl ; the wrapper for Scintilla. When I create the
> > frame in wxPython, I use self.Editor.SetFocus() to put the focus initially
> > on the editor.
> > 
> > This works fine.
> > 
> > Odd thing is though, switching back and forwards between applications
> > alternately hides and reappears the caret.
> > 
> > Hit Alt-Tab twice and it disappears
> > Hit Alt-Tab twice and it comes back.
> > 
> > It still works fine - there's just no caret. I've tried various things in
> > EVT_ACTIVATE including Moving the Caret on screen, and forcing it to be
> > visible - they are being called but it makes no difference.
> > 
> > Any ideas ?
> >


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Mon Nov 29 18:03:54 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 18:03:54 -0500
Subject: using os
In-Reply-To: <m3vfbocnj7.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
References: <mailman.6890.1101764022.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<m3vfbocnj7.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
Message-ID: <41ABAADA.2040209@bellsouth.net>

Jerry Sievers wrote:

>Juliano Freitas <jubafre at atlas.ucpel.tche.br> writes:
>
>  
>
>>how can i get just the directories in other directorie without a
>>files using the os module in Python??
>>    
>>
>
>If there's a command for listing only dirs, I've not stumbled on it.
>
>Here's a one-liner using filter and lambda;
>
>from os import listdir
>from os.path import isdir
>
>dir = '/tmp/'
>
>onlyDirs = filter(lambda entry: isdir(dir + entry), listdir(dir))
>
>HTH
>
>
>  
>
Or using list comprehensions:

 >>> [f for f in os.listdir('/tmp') if 
os.path.isdir(os.path.join('/tmp', f))]
['gconfd-root', '.X11-unix', '.ICE-unix', '.mozilla', '.font-unix']

Just as a side note, and just preference, but I typically (almost 
always) prefer using os.path.join() rather than using the "+" operator 
to put a path together.


Jeremy Jones
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From roberto at dealmeida.net  Thu Nov 18 11:19:59 2004
From: roberto at dealmeida.net (Roberto Antonio Ferreira De Almeida)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:19:59 +0000
Subject: numarray
In-Reply-To: <2617fd5d.0411180721.12c50d8a@posting.google.com>
References: <2617fd5d.0411180721.12c50d8a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <419ccbaf$0$78749$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Ben Champion wrote:
> I have installed python 2.3.3 on my windows machine have have ran
> several programs succesfully. I have also installed numarray 1.1 for
> my version of python and am now trying to create arrays using the
> array command, eg
> 
>>>>Import Numeric
>>>>a = array([1, 2, 3])

These are two different modules: numarray is one, and Numeric is the 
other. If you installed numarray, you should use:

 >>> import numarray

Also note the lowercase 'import'.

As another poster pointed out, the 'array' function is not in the global 
namespace. You have to use:

 >>> a = numarray.array([1,2,3])

Or alternatively:

 >>> from numarray import *
 >>> a = array([1,2,3])

What I usually do, since Numeric and numarray are mostly compatible is:

     try:
         import numarray as N
     except ImportError:
         import Numeric as N

     a = N.array([1,2,3])

This way you'll use numarray if it is available, otherwise you fallback 
to Numeric.


From len-1 at telus.net  Tue Nov 23 13:35:01 2004
From: len-1 at telus.net (Lenard Lindstrom)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:35:01 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.23.07.09.08.229463@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <zn18e7pm.fsf@telus.net>

Paul Robson <autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk> writes:

> On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:53:37 +0000, Lenard Lindstrom wrote:
> 
> > No, Claim-2 refers to a "BASIC-derived programming language". Description 42
> > claims "BORLAND DELPHI" is such a "BASIC-like or BASIC-derived language". Now I
> > have not used Delphi but understand it is a kind of Pascal.
> 
> Delphi *is* Pascal - or Borland's variant of it anyway. 
> 
So Delphi is definitely not BASIC-derived. It is BASIC-like in that various
basic dialects, including QBasic, came to support the structured programming
that Pascal was designed from the beginning to teach.

> It's an extension of Object Pascal, which came in with Turbo Pascal 5.5
> and was (I think) designed by the guy responsible for the C# design,
> Andreas Heiljberg (?).
> 
Interesting. If this is true I wonder if Heiljberg knows someone in Microsoft
claims Object Pascal is modelled after Basic. Certainly the windowing extensions
made to VB and Delphi are not BASIC-like or BASIC-derived.

> I bought a copy of this in I reckon about 1986ish. Visual Basic debuted in
> 1991.

I would hope that a rewrite of Claim-2 of the patent is required before the patent
is accept (if it is not outright rejected). Claim-2 is too vague to be meaningful.
Proper definitions of "BASIC" and "derived" are missing. I imaging the patent is
intended to protect Visual Basic.NET rather than restrict unrelated languages
like Delphi and Python anyways.

Lenard Lindstrom
<len-l at telus.net>


From esj at harvee.org  Mon Nov 29 16:05:14 2004
From: esj at harvee.org (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:05:14 -0500
Subject: asynchat and threading
In-Reply-To: <e69d3ed2041124173965892985@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Ij1pd.19554$ld2.4796764@twister.nyc.rr.com>	<mailman.6755.1101310280.5135.python-list@python.org>	<4edc17eb.0411241036.72eed3ef@posting.google.com>	<41a505c2$0$20660$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<e69d3ed2041124173965892985@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41AB8F0A.7050502@harvee.org>

Anthony Baxter wrote:
> twisted is too large to go into the python core as is - in addition, there's a 
> mismatch between Python's release cycle speed and twisted's release
> cycle speed (although the current delayed-until-who-knows-when Twisted
> 2.0 might be a harbinger of twisted slowing down to Python's speed <wink>)
> It's possible that in the future a small core of twisted could end up in the
> stdlib - this topic's come up a couple of times on the twisted list (most 
> recently, a couple of months ago).
> 
> I wonder if the asyncore docs couldn't grow a 'See also' that points at twisted,
> though...

this points to an important issue that should be addressed at some point 
which is the ability to quickly and easily, on the level of rpm or 
apt-get, import external frameworks.  I have a body of code which counts 
on smtpd.py and pop3d.py.  I have modified both and just created new 
versions to sit within my application.  Easy integration.

If I was to count on twisted, I would have another fetch fest collecting 
all the pieces as well as increasing the complexity of building my 
application.

If I could simply do: py-get twisted
and have all of the dependencies resolved, it would be wonderful.  as a 
prototype, I would suggest wrapping apt-get with a python envelope which 
  automatically invokes apt-get with a python specific configuration 
file for .pydeb files as well as a private repository and database etc.. 
  Since apt-get exists for almost every version of Linux and should be 
portable to other platforms, this distribution method should be 
relatively distribution portable.

One can also handle upgrades of the core image of Python and ancillary 
packages as well by leaving a breadcrumb file indicating which packaging 
system is native and the package currently installed. <<- idea needs work

yea? nay?

---eric



From nospam at mega-nerd.com  Sat Nov 20 17:28:57 2004
From: nospam at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 09:28:57 +1100
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.6614.1100891946.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<419E6C13.1040508@v.loewis.de> <b8ynd.1301$QR.263@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <419FC529.9F8A47C2@mega-nerd.com>

Steve Holden wrote:
> 
> This makes me want to patent FuckingRidiculous. Or perhaps I should make
> that SingleClickFuckingRidiculous?

Don't waste your money.

> I seriously wonder how long the US Patent Office is prepared to continue
> making an ass of itself.

Patents like this one should be encouraged.  The more
ludicrous patents that the patent office accepts, the
sooner the whole pile of crap will collapse on itself
and implode.

Erik
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
"Crap can work. Given enough thrust pigs will fly, but it's not necessary a
good idea."  -- Alexander Viro on linux-kernel mailing list


From elie at flashmail.com  Thu Nov  4 02:34:18 2004
From: elie at flashmail.com (Eli Daniel)
Date: 3 Nov 2004 23:34:18 -0800
Subject: Extending Python questions
References: <aef9ef3d.0411030930.6091ddc7@posting.google.com>
	<cmb5i9$qbh$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <aef9ef3d.0411032334.24dddcb6@posting.google.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote in message news:<cmb5i9$qbh$04$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> > myshell.openconnection('www.yahoo.com',12,2000)
> > 
> > It's not only the problem of comfort - it's a problem of changing
> > *some* scripts. And there's more than that - my shell functions
> > already know how to handle it's arguments (which's number may vary),
> > it doesn't need python to do that. All it needs is a pointer to a
> > string representing the arguments (in our case "www.yahoo.com 12
> > 2000"). I've tried using PyArg_UnpackTuple but without success.
> 
> Then don't specify the arguments separately, but instead make it one string
> argument, and pass it to your command:
> 
> myshell.openconnection('www.yahoo.com 12 2000')
> 
> 
> > So I have two questions:
> > 1. Is it possible to move the calls to a upper level (i.e. call
> > "openconnection" and  not "myshell.openconnection") ?
> 
> from myshell import *
> 
> > 2. Is is possible to remove the brackets and commas? (i.e.
> > "www.yahoo.com 12 2000" instead of ('www.yahoo.com',12,2000)?
> 
> No. Thats too much of tinkering with pythons parser - you'd render all other
> python sources useless, which I suspect outnumber your scripts by a degree
> or two... :)
>  
> > final goal is to use the original commands if possible.
> > thanks in advance,
> 
> What do you use python for in the first place, if you want to keep
> everything as it is?
> 
> What you can do is to read your scripts _using_ python instead of _passing_
> them to python - then you can control the syntax of your scripting
> language. The main loop could look like this:
> 
> import myshell
> for line in sys.stdin.readlines():
>     command, rest = line.split()[0], " ".join(line.split()[1:])
>     getattr(myshell, command)(rest)


Thanks for the reply. I'll try those.
The reason I'm trying it this way is that a user can add python code
inside the scripts.

Eli


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  5 10:42:07 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 16:42:07 +0100
Subject: How do you execute an OS X application (bundle) from Python?
References: <70bb9f8d.0411040250.1f4ac1a@posting.google.com>
	<69cbbef2.0411041513.120fc039@posting.google.com>
	<1gmrrsj.7ljqd6f3sgkfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<m24qk4ttl2.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>
	<1gms4py.c7p5cjeee3clN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<m2u0s4sb6e.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>
Message-ID: <1gmsdlv.1fwilzkeutnhjN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Dan Sommers <me at privacy.net> wrote:
   ...
> > that file -- nevertheless, I can be SO much more productive with my
> > editor of choice than with whatever the driving app may choose to use
> > for text editing, that, as a user, I still consider that important.
> 
> Agreed.  My editor of choice these days is emacsclient.

> > The application should somehow be notified after point (4); any
> > earlier time would be inappropriate.
> 
> Well, yes, but does TextEdit and/or Mac OS provide that functionality?
> Does KDE or GNOME?  Those are honest questions; I haven't written a
> native Mac application since OS9, and I've never written a KDE- or
> GNOME- aware application.

Me neither; I do expect that such notification is provided by any decent
(implies scriptable) app, but quite possibly in non-uniform ways across
apps; which means that the approach Just mentioned as being BBedit's
strikes me as preferable for such tasks.  emacsclient defaults to
waiting, though it does provide a -n switch for _not_ waiting...

> Let me try it this way:  Is a "text file" (or a "sequence of bytes or
> characters"), edited by hand with a text editor, the best interface to
> configuration information?  I must admit that I'm impressed by the
> amount of point-and-click configuration I can do with KDE; I never have
> to look at a config *file* unless I want to (but I can look at them if
> there's a problem, which seems to be the best of both worlds).

My preference is generally to edit text-files by hand; I do appreciate
tools that offer some shortcuts for simple and frequent tasks (though I
have my own editor macros/scripts, of course, so "by hand" may be a very
short task anyway), but I do NOT appreciate tools that remove that
option from me, either by keeping their configuration data in
non-textual form or by not integrating in their architecture the
possibility that the user will want to edit those data.

But it's not just about configuration.  Much as I like tools such as
Mail.App or MacSOUP, I resent _having_ to use their editors rather than
my favourite editor; and Command-A, Command-C, open editor, Command-V
(to start editing in my favourite editor the text that begins life in
the editor integrated in such apps), and viceversa when I'm done (plus
the closing of the editor), is about (at least) half a dozen more
shortcut keystrokes than I should need for such a common task.  Any app
that at some point makes me edit text, be it configuration stuff, an
email, a post, a memo to myself (e.g. in iCal), whatever, _should_ offer
a simple shortcut to let me delegate the editing to my favourite tool
for the purpose, in my opinion.


> Yes, some configurations are complex, and I *detest* the number of mouse
> clicks required by some of the associated interfaces (I'd much rather
> type [part of] the name of a directory than "navigate" a bunch of little
> disclosure triangles up and down the file system).  But I now believe
> that it's only a matter of time before we discover the right GUI
> paradigms to edit even these sorts of things (although I never used to
> think this way).

I disagree on the assumption that "the right GUI paradigms" will be
right for *me* after over a quarter century of exposure to Unix (by
_choice_, please note -- even when professional need had me working on
VM/SP, VMS, MVS, DOS, Windows, whatever, and become an expert on the
various systems in question, Unix is always what I pined for, and kept
coming back to whenever I could -- I must obviously be warped that way).


Alex


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Nov 12 06:04:11 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:04:11 +0100
Subject: re.compile.match() results in unicode strings - why?
References: <2vh2mlF2lbkrdU1@uni-berlin.de> <419388f2$2_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<2vjhjcF2kgeidU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cn259b$r93$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Axel Bock wrote:

> Kent Johnson wrote:
> 
>> Apparently if the input strings are unicode then the groups will be as
>> well:
>> [...]
>> Are you sure that exp is not a unicode string?
> 
> hm. pretty much - i read the lines from a text file which contains only
> normal text. a sample line looks like that:
> 
> 6.     call_noparam    1000 runs       149453,1 ms     149,4531 ms/call
> 
> no surprise here, i think ... . Actually I also wrote the program which
> produces that file, and I really didn't use unicode then. opening the file
> with a text editor also does not show unicode, and I can't believe that
> windows does actually manage the unicode stuff transparently to text
> editors. and also I have never heard of file-attached codepage
> information, those would be the only things i could imagine as a reason.

Why do you keep speculating?

[Your code from another post]
> ** CODE **
> string = "1. asdf asdf 327,88"
> exp = re.compile("(\S+) (\S+) (\S+) (\S+).*")
> m = exp.match(string)
> print m.groups()
> ** /CODE **

You could modify that along the lines (untested)

string = "1. asdf asdf 327,88"
pattern = "(\S+) (\S+) (\S+) (\S+).*"
# make sure that there is no unicode input:
assert not isinstance(string, unicode)
assert not isinstance(pattern, unicode)
exp = re.compile(pattern)
m = exp.match(string)
# make sure at least one group is a unicode string
if m:
    assert [g for g in m.groups() if isinstance(g, unicode)]

If this does not throw an assertion error we can look further, but I still
think this is unlikely.

Peter




From sylvain.thenault at nospam.logilab.fr  Thu Nov  4 04:03:24 2004
From: sylvain.thenault at nospam.logilab.fr (Sylvain Thenault)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 10:03:24 +0100
Subject: ANN: New configuration module released
References: <2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5873.1099513574.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.04.09.03.20.767617@nospam.logilab.fr>

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:26:07 -0500, Neal D. Becker wrote:

> Looks good so far.
> 
> The boost c++ library (about to be released) has a new program_options
> parser.  One feature I appreciate in the design, is that the source of
> options is seperated from the rest of the design.  This means that, out of
> the box, it reads options from command line, from config files, and from
> env variables.  Probably not hard to extend if anyone could think of a
> reason.
> 
> I believe a decent config module should at least handle both config files
> and command line options.  ENV variables are a nice touch too.

the "configuration" module in logilab's common library is doing this (make
a bridge between optparse and ConfigParser). You give a kind of
configuration schema to a configuration object and then it can be
initialized from a configuration file and/or command line. Environment
variable are not considered yet, but I don't think it would be hard to add
this feature. The main problem is the lack of documentation, but if there
is some interest I can post an usage example.

Notice that this library also provides some new option types for optparse
(usable by the configuration module, of course), such as regexp (for
regular expression), csv (comma separated values), yn (yes or no) and
named (arbitrary name=value pair).

-- 
Sylvain Th?nault                               LOGILAB, Paris (France).

http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org




From mwm at mired.org  Wed Nov 17 21:49:16 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 20:49:16 -0600
Subject: Rationals?
Message-ID: <x73bz7na6r.fsf@guru.mired.org>

With the decimals and the unification of int and long coming, it's natural
(for me, anyway) to wonder how much interest there is in a rational type.
There are two PEPs (239 and 240), and the Guido rejects them as no one
seems interested in doing the work, but points out that the python
distribution comes with examples/Demo/classes/Rat.py.

I propose - in the spirit of "batteries included" - that Rat.py be
cleaned up some (mostly to take advantage of the union of ints and
longs) and moved into the standard library.

Any good reasons not to do this?

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From mwm at mired.org  Fri Nov  5 01:35:00 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 00:35:00 -0600
Subject: dijkstra algorithm by object oriented
References: <mailman.5915.1099586424.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <x7y8hgst0r.fsf@guru.mired.org>

"Ricardo Batista" <batista.ric at iol.pt> writes:

> Ok. you are right.
>
> I don't express my self in a rigth way.
>
> I just want an idea to begin my work.
>
> For example, how many classes do i implement.
>
> I have an idea to create three classes, class Graph, class Vertex, class
> edge.
> But i don't know if i'm going in the rigth way.

Yup, that's certainly one way to do it. But the best way to found out
is to try it and see.

One comment on the original code. You'd be better off doing INF =
None. That way you don't risk accidently generating an INF.

      <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.



From brianmce at gmail.com  Fri Nov 19 09:49:01 2004
From: brianmce at gmail.com (Brian McErlean)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 06:49:01 -0800
Subject: SQL Server stored prcedures with output parameters
References: <HHWmd.10924$nj.1324@lakeread01> <GcYmd.10930$nj.5627@lakeread01>
	<oSYmd.10931$nj.6308@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <c8af3e7a.0411190649.245f5e3d@posting.google.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message news:<oSYmd.10931$nj.6308 at lakeread01>...
> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Hmmm, following up, added another test to adodbapi to retrieve a value 
> > from a table into an output parameter it works, so this puts the 
> > suspicion on to the stored procedure. Since this was written by the 
> > client I'll take a look at it later (when I'm back in the office) and 
> > see what the problem might be.
> > 
> > happily-talking-away-to-myself-ly y'rs  - steve
> 
> However, the stored procedure below appears to consistently return zero 
> for the link_id when called with:
> 
> columnist_id, url, title, description, link_id = \
> 	curs.callproc("sp_InsertArticle",
> 		(columnist_id, url, title, description, 0))
> 
> so maybe there really *is* something wrong. Or, hopefully, I'm just 
> making a simple mistake in the calls? Whatever value is used as the 
> fifth (output) parameter seems to get returned, despite the apparent 
> change in the stored procedure.
> 
> Create PROCEDURE dbo.sp_InsertArticle
> (
> 	@columnist_id int,
> 	@url varchar(255),
> 	@title varchar(99),
> 	@description text,
>     	@link_id int OUTPUT
> )
> AS
> BEGIN
> 	INSERT INTO link	(columnist_id,url,title,description)
> 	VALUES (@columnist_id, at url, at title, at description)
> 
>      SELECT @link_id = @@IDENTITY
> END
> 
> GO
> 

I had a similar problem doing this once before that I think was
related to the connection string.  Changing to use the SQLOLEDB
provider solved it.  I've just tested the below script here and got
the expected results:

Stored procedure:

  CREATE PROCEDURE TestSP
     @param INTEGER OUTPUT
  AS
  BEGIN
  select @param = 10
  END  

Python test:

import adodbapi

server='localhost'
dbname='brian'
user='sa'
password=''

db=adodbapi.connect('Provider=SQLOLEDB.1;Data Source=%s;Initial
Catalog=%s;User ID=%s;Password=%s;'%(server, dbname,user,password))
cur = db.cursor()
print cur.callproc('TestSP',(999,))
[10]

-- 
Brian


From danperl at rogers.com  Wed Nov  3 17:42:45 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 17:42:45 -0500
Subject: New configuration module released
References: <2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840@posting.google.com><4d2dnXe5XY7bmxTcRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<mailman.5876.1099519315.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <VPWdnWBATKx3wxTcRVn-ug@rogers.com>


"Vinay Sajip" <vinay_sajip at red-dove.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.5876.1099519315.5135.python-list at python.org...
>> First, some small issues.  The syntax for your configuration is still 
>> fairly close to the python syntax and it involves quite a bit of learning 
>> for both python users and non-python users.  Your module would save me a 
>> little bit of work in parsing when loading a configuration (remember, I 
>> am loading configurations by importing them as a module) and a little 
>> more work than that in formatting when saving a configuration.  That work 
>> is not very significant though and having my own mechanism also has its 
>> advantages.
>
> One important benefit of having Python-like syntax is that it is easy to
> create a configuration programmatically, using just dicts and lists.
> This is something that you cite below as a big issue for you.
>
> In terms of learning - I'm not sure that python developers would have
> any real problem with the basic syntax. For end users, it's a case of
> unfamiliarity rather than intrinsic difficulty, IMO.

You're right, but my point is that for python programmers it's even better 
if the configuration is implemented in plain python instead of using a 
python-like syntax.  As for non-python programmers, which is where my 
biggest concern was, both solutions are an inconvenience.

As for creating a configuration programmatically, I can do that using python 
for the syntax (and I am already doing that).  Your syntax is better for 
other, non-python applications that may also be interested in using these 
configuration mechanism, but that is not important for me.  Besides, 
non-python applications would still have to implement their own parsing and 
formatting for this syntax.

It's just an idea and I haven't put a lot of thought in it myself, but what 
about using XML for the configuration syntax?

>> Now, here is the biggest issue I have and what I would be extremely 
>> interested in seeing in a configuration module.  I don't see from your 
>> documentation how I could programmatically create a configuration from 
>> scratch.  In my project I have a set of handlers and each handler has a 
>> special configuration.  Each such special configuration is defined by a 
>> structure of metadata (with information like name, type, description) 
>> that I implemented myself.  That way, my GUI tool can load a handler 
>> dynamically, read its configuration metadata, dynamically create a frame 
>> for the handler's configuration, and save the new configuration to a 
>> file.
>
> There are many ways you could do what you want to do. Without knowing
> the details of your application, I can't give particularly good advice.
> However, consider the following program:
>
> from config import Config
> from cStringIO import StringIO
>
> root = { }
> messages = [ ]
> root['total_period'] = 100
> root['test'] = True
> root['another_test'] = False
> root['yet_another_test'] = None
> root['messages'] = messages
> root['message'] = 'Hello, world!'
> messages.append({ 'message' : 'Welcome', 'name' : 'Harry' })
> messages.append({ 'message' : 'Welkom', 'name' : 'Ruud' })
> messages.append({ 'message' : 'Bienvenue', 'name' : 'Yves' })
>
> stream = StringIO()
> print >> stream, root
> value = stream.getvalue()
> stream.close()
>
> stream = StringIO(value[1:-2])
> cfg = Config(stream)
> cfg.save(file('test.txt', 'w'))
>
> This shows how easy it is to programmatically construct a simple
> configuration from scratch.

I probably didn't express clearly enough what I need in my initial posting. 
Your example is for a statically defined configuration structure.  I am 
interested in a configuration structure that can be defined dynamically.  So 
if I load a plugin with a configuration structure that I don't know 
beforehand, I can still create that configuration programmatically.

> It would be easy for your configuration to hold a separate tree in the
> configuration with the metadata. For example, you could construct a GUI
> frame given a set of fields:
>
> fields: [ title, firstname, surname, age, jobtitle ]
> metadata: {
>     title : { description: 'Salutation', type: choice,
> values: [ [1, 'Mr.'], [2, 'Mrs.']] }
>     firstname : { description: 'First name', type: text,
> max_length: 20 }
>     surname : { description: 'Last name', type: text, max_length: 20 }
>     age : { description: 'Age', type: int }
>     jobtitle: { description: 'Job title', type: text }
> }
>
> Then you can easily loop through the fields.
>
> from config import Config
>
> cfg = Config(file('metadata.cfg'))
>
> for fld in cfg.fields:
>     metadata = cfg.get('metadata.' + fld)
>     print "name = %r, type = %r, description = %r" %
>          (fld, metadata.type, metadata.description)
>
> with the result
>
> name = 'title', type = 'choice', description = 'Salutation'
> name = 'firstname', type = 'text', description = 'First name'
> name = 'surname', type = 'text', description = 'Last name'
> name = 'age', type = 'int', description = 'Age'
> name = 'jobtitle', type = 'text', description = 'Job title'

This is a great idea and it's very useful for me: defining the metadata as a 
configuration file.  And your configuration module could be useful for that. 
Thanks.  I will consider it.

And yet, I would still like to see a generic mechanism for configuration 
metadata.  And this is the point where I expected to see a discussion.  Am I 
the only one seeing a need to define configuration structures with metadata? 
I see that useful for:
   - dynamically defined configurations like in my project
   - sharing the same configuration structure between several applications, 
so
     for instance a configuration created by one application can be used by
     another application

Any opinions on that?

Dan

> I hope the above allows you to see the potential that the config module
> has to meet your needs.
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
> Vinay Sajip
>
> 




From just at xs4all.nl  Fri Nov  5 09:05:17 2004
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 15:05:17 +0100
Subject: How do you execute an OS X application (bundle) from Python?
References: <1gmrrsj.7ljqd6f3sgkfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<m24qk4ttl2.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>
	<1gms4py.c7p5cjeee3clN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<m2u0s4sb6e.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>
Message-ID: <just-291BBC.15051705112004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article 
<m2u0s4sb6e.fsf at unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>,
 Dan Sommers <me at privacy.net> wrote:

> > Developers of Mac apps, mostly -- and therefore developers of
> > infrastructure that runs on Macs to help apps -- apparently haven't
> > yet caught on to this reasonably-new bunch of users, me included, who
> > see MacOSX as just what it IS today -- a BSD with a neat GUI on top
> > (and a Mach underneath, sure, but that's hardly ever relevant;-).
> > Fine, I guess we'll stick with fink and darwinports and the like.  But
> > (unless I'm being paid for it) I'm not going to write an application
> > that I would never want to use myself.  So, if the only way to shell
> > out to an editor is to write commandline apps instead of GUIs, and use
> > /usr/bin/vi (which IS, after all, one editor Apple that is bundling,
> > to which we can easily shell out), then that's going to be what we do
> > -- until and unless shelling out to TextEdit or BBEdit or whatever is
> > just as easy.
> 
> There's a command line BBEdit wrapper somewhere; Bare Bones would seem a
> likely candidate to provide the second half of shelling out to them
> (i.e., letting the parent app know when the user closes the file's
> window in BBEdit).

BBEdit does indeed come with a command line tool (you need to install it 
separately). From the bbedit man page:

       -w     Wait until the file is closed in BBEdit. Normally,
              the bbedit tool exits immediately after the file
              arguments are opened in BBEdit. The -w option
              allows the bbedit tool to be used as an external
              editor for Unix tools that use the EDITOR global
              environment variable. To make this work using tcsh,
              add the following line to your .cshrc file:

              setenv EDITOR "bbedit -w"

Just


From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Tue Nov  2 14:47:04 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 19:47:04 GMT
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<4187aafe$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <slrncofp1m.dvf.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>

>  wall of abstraction".  A Smalltalk programmer would say that
>  Python is more weakly typed than Smalltalk for user-defined types.

which brings me to another related question.

I understand strong/weak typing is more like a continuum --
is there kind of a programming langauges hierarchy sorting various
langauges accoring to "type-strongness" that is generally agreed upon?

I'd be interested in a hierarchy containing some of the following
languages: ANSI-C++, C, Perl, Python, Pascal, ML.
(because these happen to be some of the languages i know a bit ;-) )

Would the following be justifiable?

    Perl < C < C++ < Pascal < Python < ML ?

Or does anyone have a pointer?

Best regards,
gab.


-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| There are works which wait,                                             |
| and which one does not understand for a long time; [...]                |
| for the question often arrives a terribly long time after the answer.   |
|                                                         (Oscar Wilde)   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From davidf at sjsoft.com  Tue Nov 23 11:41:09 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:41:09 +0200
Subject: instant messenging
In-Reply-To: <AyGod.9485$pK6.551@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <d01od.8535$Qh3.3891@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<2004112108293216807%craig@yumaca>
	<TZtod.9969$Qh3.8066@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<Xns95AABCDD15E3JanC@213.118.46.53>
	<AyGod.9485$pK6.551@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <cnvp74$1ht$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Lucas Raab wrote:
> JanC wrote:
> 
>> Lucas Raab schreef:
>>
>>
>>> Ah, could you possibly have a zip file?? I looked on your site and 
>>> downloaded the BZ2 file, but I'm not sure how to extract it. I have 
>>> Cygwin for another application, but I don't know how to get the files 
>>> out the BZ2. So either a ZIP file or instructions on extracting files 
>>> in  BZ2 files would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think Cygwin has bzip2 & tar to extract files from .bz2 archives?
>>
>> If you prefer a GUI application, try 7-Zip:
>> <http://www.7-zip.org/>
>> (version 3.13, don't use 4.x yet)
>>
>>
> 
> It does have both of those, but I;m not sure how to get them to act in 
> concert with each other.
First run bunzip2 and you will get the tar file, then run tar xf and you 
will get the files extracted.
Or run tar xjf and it will automate them, or you can pipe the two commands.

David


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Thu Nov 18 15:15:37 2004
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 12:15:37 -0800
Subject: Algorithm visualization
Message-ID: <5c882bb5.0411181215.45793e34@posting.google.com>

I'd like to easely visualize some small algorithms in Python (wireless
networks of moving agents), and so far I've found Gato:

http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~gato/

It visualizes just algorithms on graphs (and lists, etc). I've tried
it and I think it's nice, but there isn't documentation. I'd like to
know if someone has tried this Gato, knows a bit how to use it, or
knows other software (algorithm) visualizers fit for Python.

Thank you,
Bearophile


From adam at gliwice.pl  Thu Nov 11 16:55:08 2004
From: adam at gliwice.pl (Adam Przybyla)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:55:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: mod_python not working (showing source code)
References: <1100137677.4bQNs8XNANf1D1RB/G9RbQ@teranews>
	<mpd7p0dj337bqv32dqskk8928vebcvkpu8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <cn0n3s$jv3$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Ivo Woltring <Python at ivonet.nl> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:32:21 -0600, "Anthony Papillion II"
> <papillion at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>Hello Everyone,
>>
>>I have downloaded and installed mod_python and it doesn't seem to be
>>working. I am hoping someone can give me some pointers as to what I am doing
>>wrong. Here are the steps I've followed so far:
>>
>>1. Installed mod_python from the rpm file.
>>2. Added LoadModule and AddModule directives to the httpd.conf file
>>
>>Now, I have a file called mod_test.py that contains the following code:
>>
>>#!/usr/bin/python
>>
>>print "Test of mod_python"
>>
>>When I call the file up in the browser, I simply see the python source. What
>>am I doing wrong?
>>
>>Thanks!
>>Anthony
>>
> 
> in httpd.conf put someting like:
> 
> LoadModule python_module modules/mod_python.so
> 
> and in .htaccess:
> 
> SetHandler mod_python
> AddHandler python-program .py
> PythonHandler mod_python.publisher
> #PythonHandler mptest         
> PythonDebug On               
> 
> #PythonDebug On
	... change mod_test.py name to python-program.py ;-) Regards
								Adam Przybyla


From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Nov 18 08:17:50 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:17:50 +0100
Subject: PIL for Python 2.4?
In-Reply-To: <6r6pp018glonqu2kqeau5ru9nhfj9fpchv@4ax.com>
References: <6r6pp018glonqu2kqeau5ru9nhfj9fpchv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20041118131750.GA20304@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Thu, Nov 18, 2004 at 02:57:01PM +0200, Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
> Has anyone built PIL (1.1.4 or 1.1.5) for Python 2.4?  If yes,
> please let me know, [...]

I haven't. But it would have been useful if you had mentioned which
platform ;-) Windows?

-- Gerhard
-- 
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
-------------- next part --------------
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From theller at python.net  Wed Nov 24 07:42:03 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 13:42:03 +0100
Subject: 64-bit platform
In-Reply-To: <41A47D19.7050205@cenix-bioscience.com> (Aaron Bingham's
	message of "Wed, 24 Nov 2004 13:22:49 +0100")
References: <7jobv44r.fsf@python.net> <41A47D19.7050205@cenix-bioscience.com>
Message-ID: <y8grto4k.fsf@python.net>

Aaron Bingham <bingham at cenix-bioscience.com> writes:

> Thomas Heller wrote:
>
>>Can some kind soul please tell me what the output of this little script
>>on a 64-bit Linux platform is:
>>
>>import struct
>>print map(struct.calcsize, "bhilqP")
>>
> For me:
>
>  >>> import struct
>  >>> print map(struct.calcsize, "bhilqP")
> [1, 2, 4, 8, 8, 8]
>
> Aaron

Thanks, again.

Thomas



From and-google at doxdesk.com  Mon Nov  8 04:54:47 2004
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 01:54:47 -0800
Subject: document as child in DOM ??
References: <mailman.5827.1099417246.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<d116fbae.0411061843.2aea78b1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0411080154.1724f56@posting.google.com>

Uche Ogbuji <uche at ogbuji.net> wrote:

[on reparenting the root element]

> 4) root_dom.documentElement = new_docelem

Unfortunately documentElement is a readonly property, so this won't
fly. (minidom doesn't generate the expected NoModificationAllowedErr,
but it doesn't perform the replacement either.)

You'd have to say:

  root_dom.replaceChild(new_docelem, root_dom.documentElement)

Bizarrely, this isn't *guaranteed* to work; in DOM Level 2 Core it's
optional, and an implementation might respond with a NotSupportedErr.
However, minidom, 4DOM and pxdom seem quite happy with it.

[Well, now. It didn't work in Python 2.0's minidom. But then what
did?]

Juliano Freitas <jubafre at atlas.ucpel.tche.br> wrote:

> xmltext = """<?xml version='1.0'?>
> <root>
> 	<parara>text</parara>
> </root>"""

> i want tu put this "xmltext" as a child to another document called
> "swdb"?

Another way of doing it would be DOM Level 3 LS's parseWithContext
method:

  # doc is a Document containing an <swdb/> element
  # xmltext is as above

  parser= doc.implementation.createLSParser(1, None)
  input= doc.implementation.createLSInput()
  input.stringData= xmltext
  el= doc.documentElement
  parser.parseWithContext(input, el, parser.ACTION_APPEND_AS_CHILDREN)

LS isn't yet widely supported; pxdom will grok it but 4DOM won't.

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/


From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  1 00:12:49 2004
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 31 Oct 2004 21:12:49 -0800
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
References: <1gmfz0k.a3xefz1xzms61N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5689.1099092886.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<nl07o0lr3dvunoq2j0avuvmftnc837fvoc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0410312112.32869dcf@posting.google.com>

Andrea Griffini <agriff at tin.it> wrote in message news:<nl07o0lr3dvunoq2j0avuvmftnc837fvoc at 4ax.com>...
> On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:34:42 GMT, exarkun at divmod.com wrote:
> 
> >  range(maxlen) can be replaced with range(int(math.log(x) / math.log(N)) + 1).
> 
> Log accepts the base as second argument.
> 
> def number_in_base(x, N=10, digits="0123456789ABCDEF"):
>     return '-'[x>=0:]+"".join(
>      [digits[abs(x)/N**i%N]
>       for i in xrange(1+int(math.log(abs(x)+1,N)))
>       if N**i<=abs(x)][::-1]) or digits[0]
> 
> >  Also, and perhaps you are already aware, number_in_base(x, 1, '0') doesn't produce the correct output with the above algorithm, although I believe it will if you switch to using math.log().
> 
> It doesn't handle roman numerals either...

That's easy enough to implement ;-)

roman = lambda n: 'M' * (n // 1000) + ('', 'C', 'C', 'CCC', 'CD', 'D',
'DC', 'DCC', 'DCCC', 'CM')[n // 100 % 10] + ('', 'X', 'XX', 'XXX',
'XL', 'L', 'LX', 'LXX', 'LXXX', 'XC')[n // 10 % 10] + ('', 'I', 'II',
'III', 'IV', 'V', 'VI', 'VII', 'VIII', 'IX')[n % 10]

I'm sure there's a shorter way, though.


From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Nov 19 12:40:36 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 09:40:36 -0800
Subject: avoiding nested try/excepts
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3245251@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Steven Bethard wrote:
> So what's the idiom for catching all exceptions *except* 
> MemoryError/KeyboardInterrupt/SystemExit?  Too bad we won't 
> get our new Exceptions hierarchy until Python 3000...

try:
    thing()
except (MemoryError, KeyboardInterrupt, SystemExit):
    raise
except:
    pass

Right?


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From jarausch at skynet.be  Tue Nov  9 11:15:05 2004
From: jarausch at skynet.be (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 17:15:05 +0100
Subject: Umlauts, encodings, sitecustomize.py
In-Reply-To: <cmfeqg$l73$1@newshispeed.ch>
References: <cmfeqg$l73$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <4190ED09.3010503@skynet.be>

F. GEIGER wrote:
> I'm on WinXP, Python 2.3.
> 
> I don't have problems with umlauts (?, ?, ? and their uppercase instances)
> in my wxPython-GUIs, when displayed as static texts. But when filling
> controls with text containing umlauts, or in the Python console, or when
> writing to files umlauts are escaped:
> 
> Python 2.3.4 (#53, May 25 2004, 21:17:02) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 
>>>>"?"
> 
> '\x84'
> 
> 
> I have defined a sitecustomize.py with these lines in it
> 
> import sys
> sys.setdefaultencoding("iso-8859-1")
> 
> What else do I have to adjust?

Try the line
# _*_ coding: latin1 _*_

at the very beginning (or at least after a #! line on Unix)
This works under Linux, at least.

-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany


From robin at reportlab.com  Mon Nov  8 06:46:35 2004
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 11:46:35 +0000
Subject: pep 8 converter?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.08.11.21.54.190680@nospam.logilab.fr>
References: <418F503F.9050409@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
	<pan.2004.11.08.11.21.54.190680@nospam.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <418F5C9B.3080001@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

Sylvain Thenault wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 10:53:51 +0000, Robin Becker wrote:
> 
> 
>>Is there a tool that checks/imposes PEP 8 (ie the right core coding style?).
> 
> 
> The default pylint's policy is consistent with Guido's style guide. But it
> only checks, not imposes anything nor patches the code to fix detected
> problems.
> Pylint is available from http://www.logilab.org/projects/pylint
> 
thanks I'll give it a whirl
-- 
Robin Becker


From crap1234 at hotmail.com  Sat Nov  6 07:47:02 2004
From: crap1234 at hotmail.com (Stefan Axelsson)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 13:47:02 +0100
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
In-Reply-To: <60dfb6f6.0411050715.601f381f@posting.google.com>
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<60dfb6f6.0411050715.601f381f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2v3ve7F2flpggU1@uni-berlin.de>

Carl Banks wrote:

> It seems to me that "weak/strong" description of typing is too
> overloaded to be very specific.  Everyone seems to mean something
> different by "weak" typing.  
[...]
> I recommend we stop using "weak/strong typing" as a technical term,
> and leave it to be a meaningless buzzword for the ignorant peasantry.

You're not alone. Wikipedia lists 8 (!) different meanings for the term 
"Strong typing" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_typing):

I quote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Note that some of these definitions are contradictory, while others are 
merely orthogonal.

Because there is no generally-agreed meaning for the phrase 
"strongly-typed language", it is possible to find authoritative 
statements that many languages both are and are not strongly-typed. For 
example, under definitions 1, 2, 3, and 8, the C language is strongly 
typed; under 4, 5, and 6 it is weakly typed. Accordingly, it is easy to 
find people who will claim that C is a "strongly-typed language" and 
others who will claim that it is a "weakly-typed language".

Programming language expert Benjamin C. Pierce has said:

     I spent a few weeks . . . trying to sort out the terminology of 
"strongly typed," "statically typed," "safe," etc., and found it 
amazingly difficult. . . . The usage of these terms is so various as to 
render them almost useless.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd say that this horse is well and truly dead...

Stefan,
-- 
Stefan Axelsson  (email at http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~sax)


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Tue Nov 23 15:22:04 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:22:04 -0200
Subject: Is there a consensus on how to check a polymorphic instance?
In-Reply-To: <1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041123122279a3f9ff@mail.gmail.com>

On 22 Nov 2004 22:40:10 -0800, Mike Meng <meng.yan at gmail.com> wrote:
> hi Steve,
> Your example is helpful. Thank you.
> 
> Here is my problem. My project needs to parse some user input
> string according to  specific rules. The rules can be defined with a
> string, a CSV file, an XML file, and other forms. Followed the standard
> OO style,  I designed a dictionary-like base class to abstract those
> different sources and provides other parts a uniform interface to query
> those rules.  I put some hard code into the base class and expect user
> to inherit from it.

Your base class defines a "protocol" (loosely defined as a set of
methods, associated behavior & usage pattern). It's more than an
"interface", in strict C++/Java speak, because a protocol defines the
interaction between objects in a dynamic fashion.

In Python, you can use isinstance() to implement a safe, but somewhat
rigid, solution to your problem. Using hasattr() is another option,
that doesn't restrict you from using only derived classes; however,
it's more confusing, because you may mistake a partial implementation
of the protocol for a full one, depending on what & when you check.

The new-style approach to the problem is adaptation. I've written a
short article on adaptation, with some references to the adaptation
PEP, and also to PyProtocols, that is a recent implementation of the
idea that goes much further than the original PEP did. Some big
projects like Zope already use adaptation.

http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com/2004/11/what-is-adaptation.html

The use case for adaptation is as follows; you call adapt(object,
protocol), and the adapt call will return an object that is guaranteed
to support your protocol. Of course, if your object is from the
correct base class, then it's automatically returned. If the user
implements a new class from the scratch, but that happens to implement
your protocol, then he may implement the proper adaptation hooks to
make the adapt() call succeed.

The main advantage of using adaptation, in your case, is that it
cleans up the code somewhat. You call adapt() only once, and you can
simply use the object that is returned from it without fear. In
opposition to isinstance (which only does a simple inheritance check),
adapt() can do some work on the object it receives to 'transform' it
into a new object that supports the protocol. It's a much more dynamic
approach to the problem.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From EP at zomething.com  Wed Nov 10 22:12:38 2004
From: EP at zomething.com (EP)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:12:38 -0800
Subject: Sorting email addresses by domain
In-Reply-To: <guAkd.2$G36.0@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <mailman.6250.1100138329.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<guAkd.2$G36.0@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20041110191238.1875437209.EP@zomething.com>


From: Greg Krohn @ invalid wrote:

> Elegant or Perlish, you decide:
> 
> addresses.sort(lambda a, b: cmp(a[a.find('@'):].lower(),
>                                  b[b.find('@'):].lower()))
> 
> Note that this isn't case sensitive and items without an '@' will be 
> placed at the end.


I think: yes and yes.  Looks efficient versus what came to mind for me:

>>> def sortByDomain(addies=[]):
	domains=[a.split("@")[1] for a in addies]
	aPairs=zip(domains,addies)
	aPairs.sort()
	sortedAddies=[tup[1] for tup in aPairs]
	return sortedAddies


I do like having functions with obvious names so that I don't have to trace the logic to remember what they do...



From fake at not-real.bogus  Tue Nov  9 23:43:32 2004
From: fake at not-real.bogus (Matt Garman)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 04:43:32 GMT
Subject: tempfile and curses (putwin() and getwin())
References: <slrnconmcg.pjh.fake@sewage.raw-sewage.fake>
Message-ID: <slrncp373q.9c2.fake@sewage.raw-sewage.fake>

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 19:50:34 GMT, Matt Garman <fake at not-real.bogus> wrote:
>      addStuffToStdScr()
> 
>      tmpfile = tempfile.TemporaryFile()
>      stdscr.putwin(tmpfile)
> 
>      subWindowRoutine()
> 
>      stdscr = curses.getwin(tmpfile)
>      stdscr.refresh()
> 
>  Then an exception is thrown and I get the following message:
> 
>      stdscr.refresh()
>      _curses.error: refresh() for a pad requires 6 arguments

I figured out that I need to add the following before calling
getwin():

        tmpfile.seek(0)

Which makes sense; that's why it worked when manually creating the
temp file---I closed and re-opened that file between the calls to
putwin() and getwin() (and open() automatically sets the file
position to zero).

One of those things that seem obvious in hindsite :)

Matt

-- 
Matt Garman
email at: http://raw-sewage.net/index.php?file=email


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Nov  3 20:00:43 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 17:00:43 -0800
Subject: Why is heapify linear?
In-Reply-To: <418979c6$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <87hdo9t479.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>
	<418979c6$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <20041103165314.F7F8.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Scott David Daniels <Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org> wrote:
> 
> Josiah Carlson wrote:
>   <cost of "heapify from the bottom" and an offer to provide a picture>
>  > (there is a simple picture that I can present that will prove it to
>  > you, if desired).
> At which point I became embarassed at not having done my homework before
> asking.  The sum itself clearly adds to the claimed value, but I hadn't
> even read the heapify code yet and was wishing I could hide.  I presume
> this picture matches Isaac To's ASCII picture.

Nope, I (we) do the summation via picture.  If you break down each term
(i/2**i) into rows:

  1
 ---
  2

  1   1
 --- ---
  4   4

  1   1   1
 --- --- ---
  8   8   8
...

Sum the columns individually:
 --- --- ---
  1  1/2 1/4

Then sum that bottom row...
1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + 1/16 + ...
A nice geometric sum that approaches 2.  Multiply by a factor of n, and
we are done.

I cannot take credit for that picture, I first saw it provided by
Michael Dillencourt (http://www.ics.uci.edu/~dillenco) while I was his
TA.


 - Josiah



From mwm at mired.org  Fri Nov  5 03:29:22 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 02:29:22 -0600
Subject: Extract Title from HTML documents
References: <cme4ae$12ci$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
	<418b36ac$0$304$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <x7ekj8snq5.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> writes:

> Nickolay Kolev wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I am looking for a way to extract the titles of HTML documents. I
>> have made an honest attempt at doing it, and it even works. Is there
>> an easier (faster / more efficient / clearer) way?
>
> You anly need one tag here, so using a regex is ok.
>
> linkPattern = re.compile('((<title.*?>(.*?)</body>))', re.I|re.S)
                                               ^^^^
Shouldn't that be </title>

          <mike?

> match = linkPattern.search(source)
> if match is None:
>      result = ''
> result = match.group(0)
>
> If you need more than just the title I would definitely go with
> BeautifulSoap.
>
> -- 
>
> hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark
>
> http://www.mxm.dk/
> IT's Mad Science

-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From trentm at ActiveState.com  Wed Nov 17 19:07:27 2004
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:07:27 -0800
Subject: Python 2.2 on Red Hat
In-Reply-To: <BDC02405.3068%oct@redcatmedia.net>
References: <BDC02405.3068%oct@redcatmedia.net>
Message-ID: <419BE7BF.6040803@activestate.com>

Andy Jacobs wrote:
> I'm trying to install some anti spam software called ASK.  This relies on
> Python2.2 whereas my Cobalt RAQ4 is running 1.5.2 so I need to upgrade from
> RPM.
> 
> I've done a search and everything for Python2.2 says that it's for Red Hat
> 7, 8 or 9.  I'm running 6.  I don't want to just go at this like a bull in a
> china shop so wondered what the advice here might be.

You could use ActivePython. There are builds for Linux that should work 
on RedHat 6:
	ftp://ftp.activestate.com/ActivePython/linux/2.3/ActivePython-2.3.4-233-linux2.2-libcpp3-ix86.tar.gz

Cheers,
Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
trentm at activestate.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  2 01:40:30 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 07:40:30 +0100
Subject: saved sys.path
References: <%Xmhd.29071$g4.544104@news2.nokia.com>
	<1gmkht7.1e1lg86qerk5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5765.1099319253.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmlelr.q7q1rz5rc37oN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5797.1099369171.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gmm44d.3ayblzifiogeN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Eric S. Johansson <esj at harvee.org> wrote:
   ...
> file, command_name.path, would contain all of the search as necessary
> for a command called by the same name.  this technique would allow for a
> common platform independent method of finding application-specific 
> modules and automatically generated paths for site-specific 
> relocation/configuration.
> 
> As I write this, it occurs to me that a provisional body of code to 
> experiment with the technique would possibly serve the community well.
>   I will generate something tomorrow for public scrutiny as I am up past
> my bedtime.  Thank you for triggering the idea.

You're welcome.  Implementation should be easy, if you think that
architecture is sound.  Consider site.py, specifically the end of
function addsitedir(sitedir), which currently goes:

    names.sort()
    for name in names:
        if name[-4:] == os.extsep + "pth":
            addpackage(sitedir, name)
    if reset:
        _dirs_in_sys_path = None

It seems to me that all you need would be to make it:

    names.sort()
    for name in names:
        if name[-4:] == os.extsep + "pth" or name == specname:
            addpackage(sitedir, name)
    if reset:
        _dirs_in_sys_path = None

where specname is the application-specific path-filename you envisage.
At module-global level, where now you have:

prefixes = [sys.prefix]
sitedir = None # make sure sitedir is initialized because of later 'del'

your would add one further line going, for example:

specname = '%s.appath' % os.path.basename(sys.argv[0])


I would suggest .appath or something that stands out more than .path
which looks too much like .pth -- just IMHO.

Moreover, I think addpackage should take an optional flag:

def addpackage(sitedir, name, athead=False):

and use it when it adds to the path: instead of

        if not dircase in _dirs_in_sys_path and os.path.exists(dir):
            sys.path.append(dir)

it might go something like:

        if not dircase in _dirs_in_sys_path and os.path.exists(dir):
            if athead:
                sys.path.insert(0, dir)
            else:
                sys.path.append(dir)

Then, the call to addpackage from functon addsite should become:

        if name[-4:] == os.extsep + "pth" or name == specname:
            addpackage(sitedir, name, name == specname)

All this is untested, but we're talking about a few lines worth of patch
to site.py, nothing huge.


As to whether the whole architecture is sound -- I pass.  I'm not sure I
see why it makes sense to have a foo.appath (or foo.path as you'd want
it) that presumably gets autoedited during install to contain the
relevant dirs, rather than just autoedit foo.py, the main script, whose
purpose should, after all, be exactly to set up the environment
(sys.path first and foremost) before importing and running the real
stuff.  The current bar.pth arrangement makes sense exactly because it's
_not_ tied to apps, but to sites -- where has this site chosen to
install some backage 'bar' which must be made available for import to
all scripts running at this site.  An application, as opposed to a
package, gets to run its own code ("main script") and thus would seem
not to need such arrangements.


Alex


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Sat Nov 20 07:41:39 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 13:41:39 +0100
Subject: Question about thread
References: <1100875373.911763@eng-ser6>
	<306ic5F2svtsdU1@uni-berlin.de>	<1100879122.755150@eng-ser4>
	<mailman.6607.1100881214.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cnlmt0$jea$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<cnlnj3$vbq$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cnlp2u$sj3$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl> <1100924820.575312@eng-ser4>
Message-ID: <cnne23$kpg$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Valkyrie wrote:

> So may I ask is threading do exactly the same in terms of functionalities
> as those in thread?

Yes, even more than thread. threading is considered the somewhat "better"
interface, as it exposes its funtionality in an objectorientied fashion -
and in this case, that's actually better :)
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From deets.nospaaam at web.de  Tue Nov  2 06:45:31 2004
From: deets.nospaaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 12:45:31 +0100
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<Xns9591642B12E85duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<slrncoeo0g.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <2upaauF2e8107U1@uni-berlin.de>

Gabriel Zachmann wrote:

>>      printf("value is %d", f);
> 
> This seems a very good example to me.
> 
> Note that this is also an example showing that C++ does contain a little
> bit of dynamic typing, too, isn't it?

Where do you get that idea from? Modern compilers are aware of printf, and
have special type-checking rules built into them that verify that you pass
the right number and types of arguments for the format string. And thats
totally static, as it is done at compiletime!

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom  Mon Nov 15 14:04:58 2004
From: unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom (Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non triviale en fuite perpétuelle.)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 20:04:58 +0100
Subject: save a dictionary in a file
References: <2vsa8hF2oa58tU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <41993950$0$24061$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

shelve ?





From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Thu Nov 25 10:25:22 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 25 Nov 2004 16:25:22 +0100
Subject: Extending classes written in C++ using SWIG
References: <99efe53b.0411250614.1f0c0e3c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tyfzn16dk7x.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

tjordah at start.no (Lars Moastuen) writes:

> class Bar
> {
> public:
> 	Bar() {};
> 	~Bar() {};
> 	virtual char* DoBar() const { return "Bar"; };
> };
> 
> class Foo
> {
> public:
> 	Foo() {};
> 	~Foo() {};
> 	virtual void DoFoo(Bar* someBar) { cout << someBar->DoBar() << endl;
> };
> };

> class ExtendedBar(Bar):
> 	def __init__(self):
> 		Bar.__init__(self);
> 	
> 	def DoBar(self):
> 		return "ExtendedBar";
> 
> bar = ExtendedBar();
> foo = Foo();
> foo.DoFoo(bar);

> I now expect to get "ExtendedBar" as output from UseFoo.py (since I've
> declared DoBar() as virtual, but I get "Bar"

> Can anyone tell me why?

Because "someBar->DoBar()" uses the vtable of the C++ dynamic type to
decide which actual DoBar method to call. Unfortunately there is no
C++ type corresponding to your ExtendedBar, there is no vtable for
your ExtendedBar type in C++. C++ only knows about C++ types; it is
unaware of the existence of Python types. Inside your Python instance
of ExtendedBar you are holding on to an instance of a C++ Bar.

> Is there a way to remedy this??

I don't know whether SWIG provides a boxed solution for this sort of
problem. One approach is to override the DoBar method in a subclass of
Bar in C++, and make that method pass the 'dispatch request' up into
Python. Then you expose the wrapper class in Python, rather than Bar
itself.

It looks something like this:

struct PseudoBar : public Bar {
        PyObject* self; // the Python instance wrapping this C++ instance
        void DoFoo () {
                PyObject_CallMethod(this->self, "DoFoo", "");
        }
};

Of course, you'll need to augment this with checks to ensure that
there really is something overriding the method, otherwise you'll end
up in an infinite loop ... but hopefully you get the idea. It's all a
bit tedious.


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Nov  6 23:21:16 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 23:21:16 -0500
Subject: Python OS
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6021.1099783808.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmin1n$500$02$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6003.1099752590.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmiorc$j4b$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.6021.1099783808.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmk7r1$4d0$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Richard Blackwood wrote:
> 
>>> P.S.  If one can program interrupt routines in C, they can do the same
>>> in Python.
>>
>> Show me how you set the interrupt jumptables to your routines in 
>> python and
>> how you write time-critical code which has to be executed in a few 
>> hundred
>> cpu-cycles. And how good that works together with the GIL.
>>
> Here is my logic:  If one can do X in C and Python is C-aware (in other 
> words Python can be exposed to C) then Python can do X via such exposure.

Unfortunately the logic is flawed, even in the case that you
quoted above!

You _cannot_ use Python for a time-critical interrupt, even
when you allow for pure C or assembly code as the bridge
(since Python _cannot_ be used natively for interrupts, of
course), because -- as noted above! -- the interrupt must
execute in a few hundred CPU cycles.

Given that the cost of invoking the Python interpreter on
a bytecode-interrupt routine would be several orders of
magnitude higher, I don't understand why you think it
is possible for it to be as fast.

Of course, if you will allow both assembly/C code here and
there as a bridge, *and* you are willing to accept an operating
system that is arbitrarily slower at certain time-critical
operations (such as responding to mouse activities) than we
are used to now, then certainly Python can be used for such things...

-Peter


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Sun Nov 14 09:47:19 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 16:47:19 +0200
Subject: Data structures for tree traversals?
In-Reply-To: <YbHld.982$3N5.859@amstwist00>
References: <YbHld.982$3N5.859@amstwist00>
Message-ID: <20041114144709.GJ1216@zoran.com>

Hello Carl,

> What are the best options for implementing fast and efficient trees in
> Python?
The answer varies depending on what will the trees be used for.

> Intuitively, dictionaries seem to be ideal candidates for accessing objects
> at nodes and traversing the tree. Am I right or are there better choices?
> Are lists better? Has Numerical Python speed-efficient methods that are to
> be preferred in comparison with lists ad dictionaries?
There's http://www.python.org/doc/essays/graphs.html by the BDFL.

I find that defining a little class:
class Tree:
    def __init__(self, value, children=None):
        self.value = value
        if children is None:
            self.children = []
        else:
            self.children = children

and subclassing each specific child.
Combined with a visitor pattern is usually the best way.

Go for the usual approach:
o Make it work
o Make it right
o Make it fast (only if you need)

HTH.

Bye.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at gmail.com>
http://tebeka.spymac.net
The only difference between children and adults is the price of the toys


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Nov  2 08:32:31 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 14:32:31 +0100
Subject: extending file?
References: <mailman.5780.1099340819.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cm829f$mvu$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Chris Cioffi wrote:

> Are there any docs or examples of extending the file type?  I work
> with EDI messages that are very like text files, just with a few
> quirks. ;-)  and I was wondering if I could strech and twist the built
> in file type to make things a bit faster and more full featured.

I'm not sure what you want to accomplish here - but one of the nicer aspects
of python is that you don't have to inherit from file when you want to pass
a file-like object to some lib. See the cStringIO module. So if you create
a edi-class that _behaves_ like a file, thats all you need - you then can
pass it to any file-accepting pieco of code.

Is that what you've been asking for?
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net  Tue Nov 30 08:08:39 2004
From: philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 07:08:39 -0600
Subject: python API wrapper for C++ API
Message-ID: <200411300708.39798.philippecmartin@sbcglobal.net>

Hi,

How about first using a C to C++ wrapper:

*******************************************************
#ifdef __cplusplus

extern "C" { /* I really dislike this - iwj. */
#endif

void * init (void)
{
	return new myobj()
}



xxxx 3D_fun1 (void * p_obj)
{
	My_OBJ * l_obj = (My_OBJ *) p_obj;

	l_obj-> 3D_Meth1(....)	
}

#ifdef __cplusplus
}
#endif		/* __cplusplus */

*******************************************************

Then wrap this with the standard python extension stuff 

??








-- 
*********************
SnakeCard LLC
www.snakecard.com
*********************


From caleb1 at telkomsa.net  Tue Nov 30 21:39:01 2004
From: caleb1 at telkomsa.net (Caleb Hattingh)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:39:01 -0500
Subject: PIL 1.1.4 paste PNG's with transparency problem
References: <opsh9fbhwc1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
	<3b6f03cd.0411292217.23ca37cb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <opsia5nbg51js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>

Wow, that was pretty clueless of me...right there on the *next* page of  
the manual (I thought "im.paste(image, box)" and "im.paste(image, color)"  
were the general forms for "paste", apparently didn't look further)

thx
Caleb

On 29 Nov 2004 22:17:36 -0800, Tom Hanks <garbagecollector86 at hotmail.com>  
wrote:

> "Caleb Hattingh" <caleb1 at telkomsa.net> wrote in message  
> news:<opsh9fbhwc1js0xs at news.telkomsa.net>...
>> >>> iconBallImage.paste(iconShieldImage, (10,10))
>
>>>> iconBallImage.paste(iconShieldImage, (10,10), iconShieldImage)
>                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>                                                   transparency as 3rd  
> parameter
>
> TTFN
> Tom.



From belred1 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 28 12:36:59 2004
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 17:36:59 GMT
Subject: Decimal printing without the exponent
Message-ID: <%0oqd.478158$D%.433430@attbi_s51>

is there a way to make the Decimal class not print the exponent version of the 
decimal?


 >>> str(Decimal('1010'))
'1010'
 >>> str(Decimal((0, (1, 0, 1), 1)))
'1.01E+3'
 >>>

how do you make the 2nd example print 1010?

i know i can do this, but i thought i could make the Decimal class convert the 
string directly.

 >>> '%d' % Decimal((0, (1, 0, 1), 1))
'1010'
 >>>

i tried the to_eng_string() and to_sci_string() but that didn't work.  does 
anyone know how to do this?


thanks,

bryan


From peximies at suomi24.fi  Mon Nov  8 07:08:30 2004
From: peximies at suomi24.fi (PeterFI)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 04:08:30 -0800
Subject: Py2exe help for beginner
Message-ID: <51908f36.0411080408.2772f6c4@posting.google.com>

Howdy folks,

I?m taking my first steps in a world of python and I start from the
end:)

I have this little application written in python and I need to convert
it to Finnish. Modifications to the source code are ready and now I
need to compile it to exe. It is only one py file, Iterator.py.

my setup.py looks like this

from distutils.core import setup
import glob,os,sys
import py2exe


setup(name='MyIterator',
      version='0.2',
      author='P.P',
      py_modules=["Iterator"])

it runs nicely but no exe is created? What am I missing?


From theller at python.net  Fri Nov  5 05:22:43 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 11:22:43 +0100
Subject: py2exe 0.5.4 released
References: <mailman.5337.1098471964.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4pulo0tjm2se1p10apth81sn4p6a9mh6g8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4qk4wq6k.fsf@python.net>

Mark <> writes:

> On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:06:18 +0200, Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote:
>
>>**py2exe 0.5.4** released
>>===================================
>>*SNIP*
>>Download from the usual location:
>>
>>    <http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=15583>
>>
>
> Am I the only one having problems downloading this latest release???
> --
> Best regards,
> Mark

Dave Sellars <dave at didnt.freeserve.co.uk> writes:

> I cannot download py2exe from the sourceforge site, the download page
> just keeps refreshing but the d/l never starts...
>
> http://sourceforge.net/project/py2exe then choose 'Files' --tried with
> firefox and IE (on windows), no cigar...
>
> Anyone else having the same problem, or am I doing something *really*
> dumb? ;-)

There seems a problem with the mirrors.  One (the only one?) that works
is optusnet mirror in australia.

http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/py2exe/py2exe-0.5.4.win32-py2.3.exe?use_mirror=optusnet

Thomas


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sun Nov  7 08:29:04 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 08:29:04 -0500
Subject: Python OS
In-Reply-To: <20041107130521.GA3456@nl.linux.org>
References: <418CDE71.4080303@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041107130521.GA3456@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <418E2320.4000604@cloudthunder.com>

Gerrit wrote:

>Richard Blackwood wrote:
>  
>
>>Is it possible to prototype an operating system in Python?  If so, what 
>>would such a task entail? (i.e. How would one write a boot-loader in 
>>Python?)
>>    
>>
>
>You might want to look at http://cleese.sf.net/
>
>Gerrit.
>
>  
>
I hear that the Cleese project sunk/died but surely the source code is 
worth learning from, thank you Gerrit.


From pcolsen at comcast.net  Thu Nov 25 17:30:18 2004
From: pcolsen at comcast.net (Peter Olsen)
Date: 25 Nov 2004 14:30:18 -0800
Subject: Subclassing complex with computed arguments
Message-ID: <a86143fb.0411251430.50665acf@posting.google.com>

I want to define a class "point" as a subclass of complex.  

When I create an instance 

sample = point(<arglist>) 

I want "sample" to "be" a complex number, but with its real and
imaginary parts computed in point()'s __init__ function with their
values based on the arglist.  I want to compute with point instances
as though they were native complex numbers, but I want to be able to
define some new methods and over-ride some of complex's existing ones.

This is probably very simple, but it hasn't been simple to me.

Please feel free to flame me with RTFM as long as you also tell me
where in TFM to R.

If you respond, please send a copy directly to me.  I seldom have
access to this group.  (My primary network isn't connected to the
internet.)

Peter
pcolsen-at-comcast.net


From ods at strana.ru  Tue Nov 23 06:00:51 2004
From: ods at strana.ru (Denis S. Otkidach)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:00:51 +0300
Subject: split large file by string/regex
In-Reply-To: <0ds972-sct1.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>
References: <v5l872-sd4.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>
	<41A1EF3E.1080409@holdenweb.com>
	<mailman.6700.1101147794.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<0ds972-sct1.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20041123140051.5460d39a.ods@strana.ru>

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 20:48:16 +0100
Martin Dieringer <dieringe at zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:

> "Denis S. Otkidach" <ods at strana.ru> writes:
[...]
> > re module works fine with mmap-ed file, so no need to read it into
> > memory.
> >
> 
> thank you, this is the solution! 
> Now I can mmap.find all locations and then read the chunks them via
> file.seek and file.read

mmap-ed files also support subscription and slicing.  I guess
mmfile[start:stop] would more readable.

-- 
Denis S. Otkidach
http://www.python.ru/      [ru]


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov  1 07:34:43 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 07:34:43 -0500
Subject: fcntl and FCNTL
In-Reply-To: <74b5ee0a.0410301816.76020db1@posting.google.com>
References: <74b5ee0a.0410291907.3d73764f@posting.google.com>
	<w4mdncnRG8DIDh7cRVn-gA@powergate.ca>
	<74b5ee0a.0410301816.76020db1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <U8qhd.2718$931.1359@lakeread01>

Omid Fatemi wrote:

> Dear Peter;
> thank you for your response.
> Does this mean that in Windows I can't use fcntl module.
> If yes, what functions do you suggest to use instead of fcntl funtions.
> 
What are you using for documentation? In my "Global Module Index" it 
says (in the module list):
...
fcntl (Unix)
...
posixfile (Unix)
...
> I could see the funtions in posixfile are using fcntl functions.
> Do you have any alternative for posixfile module?
> 
I think you can take this as an indication without reading the source 
that the Python modules are tied pretty closely to the Unix 
functionality they provide, and therefore won;t be available on Windows 
any time soon.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From svenn.are at bjerkem.de  Tue Nov  9 12:14:00 2004
From: svenn.are at bjerkem.de (Svenn Are Bjerkem)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 18:14:00 +0100
Subject: Help on installing PyQt on MacOSX 10.3 needed
References: <mailman.6138.1099992201.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2vcc6oF2i91ltU1@uni-berlin.de>

On 2004-11-09 10:23:21 +0100, "Phil Thompson" 
<phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk> said:

>> Maybe somebody has been successful installing PyQt with the native
>> python in macosx 10.3 and can help me?
> 
> Where does it say that you need to re-compile Python? You don't need to
> touch Python - unless you are deploying applications and want to build a
> version of Python with PyQt as builtin modules.

Hi Phil,

you are perfectly right. I went back to the documentation and paid a 
bit more attention and with your information in mind, I now see that it 
is talking about a selfcontained python with pyqt. I guess that I want 
to use the qt bindings *dynamically*. That means that I have to find a 
way to tell Python where to find the pyqt that I installed.

In tcl I would either have installed into a directory in auto_path or I 
would have extended auto_path. How is this done in Python?

Kind regards,
-- 
Svenn



From chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu  Fri Nov 12 21:25:21 2004
From: chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu (Chris S.)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 02:25:21 GMT
Subject: a very newbie question about threading
In-Reply-To: <9c3edc58.0411121629.45652543@posting.google.com>
References: <9c3edc58.0411121629.45652543@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <lgeld.365$%M4.295@trndny08>

Chris Patton wrote:

> Hey Everyone. 
> 
> I've recenently stumbled upon a concept known as "threading". Can
> anyone tell me what this IS and how it is used, or show me where I can
> get information about this?
> 
> Thanks!

Threading, or multi-threading, involves the simultaneous execution of 
multiple sequences (e.g. "threads") of instructions. This is similar to 
how your computer runs several programs at the same time, except threads 
usually share the same space in memory, so they can easily operate on 
shared data. As always, Google and Python's docs are your friends:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=what+is+multi-threading&btnG=Search
http://docs.python.org/lib/module-threading.html


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Nov 18 12:13:37 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 12:13:37 -0500
Subject: Need function to test if EFFECTIVE UID has read-access to a
	file.
In-Reply-To: <9b96ed1.0411180847.17d4f7af@posting.google.com>
References: <9b96ed1.0411170915.2b88da0e@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6498.1100715267.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<9b96ed1.0411180847.17d4f7af@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cnilat$29g$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Markus Kemp wrote:
> Oh, and another reason why I can't use the method suggested by you is
> that I'm dealing with directories, not files. Then again .... I guess
> I could do something like:
> 
> try:
>     os.listdir( strPathname )
> except:
>     print "No read access to pathname", strPathname, "!"
> 
> Problem is, I don't wanna catch __everything__. Does anyone know what
> kind of exception is.listdir() throws if it fails to read a directory?

Why not just set up the conditions you are interested in
and try it yourself?  There are probably various different
ways to "fail to read a directory", so it would be best
if you created the specific conditions you want and tried
it out from the interactive prompt.

-Peter


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Thu Nov  4 18:13:58 2004
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:13:58 -0600
Subject: Wrapping or converting Perl module?
In-Reply-To: <200411030759.15909.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
References: <200411030759.15909.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
Message-ID: <200411041713.58207.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

Okay, let's try rephrasing the question more concisely . . . ;-)

Are there any packages to help

1) Wrap a perl module the way you would a C module
   (does this ever make sense to do?)

2) Automatically or Semi-automatically translate
   a perl module/package/etc into a Python module?

3) Is there at least a guide somewhere to mapping
   Perl OOP idioms to Python counterparts?

4) Or would I be better off just looking at the SQL
   code and re-writing logic entirely?

I'm starting to be resigned to doing #4, but I didn't
want to if there's an easier way.

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From bingham at cenix-bioscience.com  Wed Nov 17 11:32:08 2004
From: bingham at cenix-bioscience.com (Aaron Bingham)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:32:08 +0100
Subject: thread, threading; how to kill a thread?
In-Reply-To: <m37jokwiqj.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
References: <m37jokwiqj.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
Message-ID: <419B7D08.1070802@cenix-bioscience.com>

Jerry Sievers wrote:

>I have limited experience with threaded apps and plenty with old style
>forked heavyweight multi-processing apps.
>
>Wondering if there is a simple way from a main python program to kill
>a running thread?  
>
There is no way to 'kill' a thread in Python.  You will need to do 
something like

def timedLoop():
    while not done:
        time.sleep(10)
        doSomething()

Clearly, done should be implemented as an instance variable of the 
thread object rather than a global, and it should probably be set by a 
setDone() method that does any necessary locking.  And yes, the thread 
will not terminate immediately, but only the next time the loop test is 
executed.

Aaron



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 18 16:48:45 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:48:45 -0700
Subject: returning unordered keyword arguments from a function (WAS: Are
	multiple return values really harmful?)
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.6511.1100727971.5135.python-list@python.org>	<8ef9bea6.0411180831.e44ae56@posting.google.com>	<e47nd.630528$8_6.343583@attbi_s04>
	<mailman.6562.1100809213.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xg8nd.107946$HA.41832@attbi_s01>
Message-ID: <cnj5bt$pq1$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steven Bethard wrote:

> Fernando Perez wrote:
>> Steven Bethard wrote:
> [snip]
>>>>>> r = object(year=2004, month=11, day=18)
>>>>>> r.day, r.month, r.year
>>>
>>>(18, 11, 2004)
>> 
>> 
>> Given that the necessary class is literally a 3-liner, I'm not sure a
>> language extension is truly needed:
>> 
>> In [1]: class bunch:
>>    ...:     def __init__(self,**kw):
>>    ...:         self.__dict__.update(kw)
>>    ...:
> 
> How do you think I generated the code above? ;)

:)

> On the other hand, I usually find that in the few places where I have
> used a record like this, I eventually replace the struct with a real
> class...

Yes, that's true.  IPython has this fairly fancy Struct module, which is
yet-another-shot at the same thing.  It started as the above 3-liner, and
ended up growing into a fairly complex class:

planck[IPython]> wc -l Struct.py
376 Struct.py

Not huge, but certainly more than 3 lines :)

I guess I was only arguing for the 3-line version being fairly trivial even to
rewrite on the fly as needed.  But if someone does add a fully functional
contribution of this kind, with enough bells and whistles to cover the more
advanced cases, I'd be +100 on that :)

Best,

f



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Nov  4 10:08:14 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 10:08:14 -0500
Subject: dijkstra algorithm by object oriented
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5905.1099569824.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5905.1099569824.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <NrqdnSfjEc4h3hfcRVn-uw@powergate.ca>

Ricardo Batista wrote:
> I need that someone help me.
> 
> I need to program the dijkstra algorithm by object oriented.
> 
> I'll send my code.

Thanks, but you haven't asked a question.  Thus it sounds
as though you are simply asking for someone to make your
code work correctly.  Or maybe you're asking for someone
to convert it from the style shown to an object oriented
approach.

Either way, it sounds a lot like this is a homework question
for school, so I really hope nobody is going to just do the
work for you, since you won't learn anything that way.

Please reconsider what you are trying to do and ask a
specific question, demonstrating that you have made a
reasonable attempt to solve the problem yourself first.

-Peter


From nobody at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 15 00:46:27 2004
From: nobody at hotmail.com (Andrew)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:46:27 -0800
Subject: Tkinter and Graphics
Message-ID: <10pf6ersh138jbe@corp.supernews.com>

Hi I was wondering if there is anyway in Tkinter to create GUIs using 
Graphics, like windows media player or other tools like that

basically so the interface wouldn't be your standard interface

any ideas, links to tutorials, or examples

is appreciated

Cheers


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov 15 08:00:42 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 08:00:42 -0500
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <41985663$0$272$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<boKdncuh1ZBxbgrcRVn-gA@giganews.com>
	<L0Tld.2114$nj.1155@lakeread01>
	<41985663$0$272$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <ZR1md.4916$nj.2331@lakeread01>

Max M wrote:

> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>> You managed to get it to run? I found the whole load opaque beyond 
>> belief, and removed it after an hour's examination.
> 
> 
> Where you on Windows or Linux?
> 
Windows.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Nov  8 08:51:19 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 08 Nov 2004 14:51:19 +0100
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<tyfekj44shs.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxizh.3rip5na92f0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyfacts4of3.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxn7d.19o8q51jt2gu5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <tyf1xf44ffs.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
>    ...
> > Maybe not _immediately_ obvious, but obvious after a few minutes
> > thought :-)
> 
> To somebody with a good grasp of the current state of C++ technology,
> maybe.  Somebody who might just like to using existing dynlib/&c which
> happen to be oriented to C++ rather than C might quite reasonably not
> find the distinction obvious, IMHO.

I Absolutely agree ... which is why I put the smiley there.

> Anyway, if my guess is correct that the demand for such a 'c++types'
> is really burning only on Windows,

What's behind this guess ?

> I think Boost Python, if all needed tools were present, might be
> able to do a more automatic job of producing the wrapper,

Hmmm. Boost does refuse to make any assumptions, and therefore
requires human intervention in quite a few cases. Maybe default
assumptions could be built into Pyste. Maybe they already have; it's a
while since I looked at Pyste.

And I also suspect that, in practice, there will be a fairly low limit
on the size of library that Boost can wrap, because of compile-time
memory consumption. ISTRT wrapping about 20-30 methods taken from
about 5 classes used up half a Gb of RAM. So you probably don't want
the throw Boost at a whole library indiscriminantly.

Having said that, I recall that was some utility being developed to
split the compilation into small submodules, as an attempt to manage
the memory explosion.


From golux at comcast.net  Mon Nov  1 00:46:48 2004
From: golux at comcast.net (Stephen Waterbury)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 00:46:48 -0500
Subject: Collecting links to Python 3D (and related) projects...
In-Reply-To: <4184B255.5060009@rogers.com>
References: <4184B255.5060009@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <4185CDC8.6080603@comcast.net>

Mike,

Thanks -- nice work!  (As usual :)

Here's one I don't see on your list:

OpenSceneGraph and PyOSG
<http://openscenegraph.sourceforge.net/>
<http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyosg/>

I found out about it at the last PyCon from
Bob Kuehne of blue newt software: 

http://www.blue-newt.com/

Let me know if you want to follow up with him,
and I will send you his email address off-list.

Steve


From exarkun at divmod.com  Tue Nov 30 20:44:59 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 01:44:59 GMT
Subject: pre-PEP generic objects
In-Reply-To: <20041130225233.GA16829@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>
Message-ID: <20041201014459.17481.1862582215.divmod.quotient.12413@ohm>

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:52:33 -0500, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>[Scott David Daniels]
> 
> > You can simplify this:
> > class Hash(object):
> >     def __init__(self, **kwargs):
> >         for key,value in kwargs.items():
> >             setattr(self, key, value)
> 
> Might it be:
> 
>     def __init__(self, **kwargs):
>         self.__dict__.update(kwargs)
> 

  One thing I notice with both of these versions:

    >>> Hash(self=10)
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    TypeError: __init__() got multiple values for keyword argument 'self'

  __self would be better; a version that doesn't preclude the use of any key would be best.

  Jp


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 15:27:17 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 20:27:17 GMT
Subject: avoiding nested try/excepts
Message-ID: <FA7nd.49980$V41.32722@attbi_s52>

So I have code that looks something like this:

def f(xs):
     for x in xs:
         y = g(x) # can raise exception AnException
         for z in h(y):
             k(z) # can raise a variety of exceptions

Now, if g(x) raises AnException, I want to log something and skip the 
inner loop (but continue with the outer loop).  If k(z) raises an 
exception, I want to log something and then re-raise the exception to 
exit all the way out of f.  Currently I do something like:

def f(xs):
     for x in xs:
         try:
             y = g(x)
             for z in h(y):
                 k(z)
         except AnException, e:
             log(x, e)
         except:
             log(x)
             raise

I've heard before that it's generally a good idea to try to localize 
your try-except blocks as much as possible.  This would lead me to do 
something like:

def f(xs):
     for x in xs:
         try:
             y = g(x)
         except AnException, e:
             log(x, e)
         else:
             for z in h(y):
                 try:
                     k(z)
                 except:
                     log(x)
                     raise

but now I have another level of nesting and things get kinda hard for me 
to read.  So I have two questions:

(1) Should I really worry about localizing try-except blocks? and, if so
(2) Is there a cleaner way to do this kind of thing?

Note that I can't edit the g or k functions, so I can't move the 
try-except blocks inside.

Thanks,

Steve


From jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 16 12:57:07 2004
From: jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 09:57:07 -0800
Subject: Announce: csv_xs.py
References: <BDB81C1E.1C8E%cme@lampcoders.net>
	<mailman.6229.1100114270.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<BDB82EB7.1CA7%cme@lampcoders.net>
Message-ID: <c718a6cf.0411160957.2a031627@posting.google.com>

Christian Meissner <cme at lampcoders.net> wrote in message news:<BDB82EB7.1CA7%cme at lampcoders.net>...
> > Can you explain what you liked about Perl's csv_xz package and/or didn't
> > like about Python's csv module that motivated you to write your own class?
> > 
> > Thx,
> > 
> > Skip
> 
> I'm a native perl speaker, but at my last work i had to learn python, to
> edit some zope thinks (quite difficult).
> 
> Now i wanna learn python for me and i often work with csv files with perl
> but now i wanna develop some python programs for csv file working.
> In this task i would extend the csv module for my needs but there i get any
> errors, so it was easier for me to develop a class which is like the perl
> one.
> 
> hope it is ok
> Chris

to a hammer everything looks like a nail!


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Wed Nov  3 03:14:27 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 08:14:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<x7lldjv2gq.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <loom.20041103T090746-443@post.gmane.org>

Mike Meyer <mwm <at> mired.org> writes:
> 
> Finally, I don't see that there's that much difference between the two
> different definitions of 'weakly typed'.  Both can be described as
> treating an object as if it were of some type other than what it
> really is. In one case, you abuse the raw bits, and in the other you
> coerce the object to a different type.

One other thing:  If you lump coercions with weak-typing, you allow the code
written in a language to adjust the degree of "weakness" of a language.  Any
language (like Python) that allows you to override operators allows you to
create new coercions[1].  So if I don't like the strong/weak classification of
my language, I can always make it more "weakly-typed" by just adding more
nonstandard coercions.

IMHO, classification of a language as strongly- or weakly-typed should be
invariant of the code written in a language -- it should be something associated
with the language definition itself.  Lumping weak-typing with coercion makes
this impossible.

Steve

[1]http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/249023.html



From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Nov  2 09:38:41 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 15:38:41 +0100
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
In-Reply-To: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041102143841.GA12780@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Tue, Nov 02, 2004 at 05:39:36AM -0800, Stephen Ferg wrote:
> [...] I submit that the future expansion of Python usage is constrained by
> Python's lack of a CPAN-like facility, and I submit that without a CPyAN
> Python will never even get close to achieving the degree of widespread usage
> that Perl currently enjoys. [...]

I'd suggest that those who are interested join the Catalog SIG. It
could need active participants. http://python.org/sigs/catalog-sig

-- Gerhard
-- 
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
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From tim.tadh at gmail.com  Fri Nov 19 17:09:35 2004
From: tim.tadh at gmail.com (Tim Henderson)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 14:09:35 -0800
Subject: Class Encapsulation Errors in Python 2.3.3
References: <47f7cc78.0411182007.1b77c2b1@posting.google.com>
	<nrudnceoVIIV5QDcRVn-hw@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <47f7cc78.0411191409.3b3607fc@posting.google.com>

I have solved the problem, it was indeed declaring the songs list in
the wrong place. I moved the declaration and the songs list no longer
acts like a static variable. I am going to have to read up on how the
interpreter evaluates variables declared there.


below is the new code, In this code the songs list no longer act like
the same variable.

code: 
------------------------------------------------------------------
class Song:
    
    name = ''
    artist = ''
    album = ''
    
    def __init__(self, name, artist='', album=''):
        
        self.name = name
        self.artist = artist
        self.album = album
    
    
    def setName(self, name):
        self.name = name
    
    def getName(self):
        return self.name
    
    def setArtist(self, artist):
        self.artist = artist
    
    def getArtist(self):
        return self.artist
    
    def setAlbum(self, album):
        self.album = album
    
    def getAlbum(self):
        return self.album
    
    def __str__(self):
        return self.name + '  ' + self.artist + '  ' + self.album + ' 
'


class Album:

    songs = False
    name = ''
    artist = ''
    
    def __init__(self, name, artist=''):
        if not self.songs: self.songs = []
        self.name = name
        self.artist = artist
    
    def setName(self, name):
        
        self.name = name
        for x in songs:
            x.setAlbum(self.name)
    
    def getName(self):
        return self.name
    
    def setArtist(self, artist):
        self.artist = artist
        for x in self.songs:
            x.setArtist(self.artist)
    
    def getArtist(self):
        return self.artist
    
    def addSong(self, song): #must be song class
        #print 'NAME: ' + self.name
        song.setAlbum(self.name)
        song.setArtist(self.artist)
        self.songs.append(song)
    
    def deleteSong(self, name):
        
        x = 0
        while x < self.songs.__len__():
            cname = self.songs[x].getName()
            
            if cname == name: 
                del self.songs[x]
                return True
            
            x += 1
        
        return False
    
    def __str__(self): 
        val = self.name + '\t'
        
        for x in self.songs:
            val += x.__str__() + " | "
        
        return val
    def getSongs(self):
        return self.songs
        
    
    




class Artist:
    
    name = ''
    songs = False #this is only really for deleting songs
    albums = False
    unknownAlbum = '' #set in init
    
    def __init__(self, name):
        if not self.songs: self.songs = []
        if not self.albums: self.albums = []
        self.unknownAlbum = Album('unknown')
        self.albums.append(self.unknownAlbum)
        self.name = name
        self.unknownAlbum.setArtist(self.name)
    
    def setName(self, name):
        for x in albums:
            self.name = name
    
    def getName(self):
        return self.name
    
    def addSong(self, song): #must be song class
##~         print 'NAME:\t:'+self.name
        song.setArtist(self.name)
        
        a = song.getAlbum()
        for x in self.albums:
            if a == x.getName():
##~                 print '--------'
##~                 print a + '  ' + x.getName()
##~                 print x
##~                 print song
##~                 print '--------'
                x.addSong(song)
                print 'ya'
                self.songs.append(song)
                print self.songs
##~                 print '********'
##~                 print x
##~                 print self.unknownAlbum
##~                 print '********'
                return
        
        if a == '': 
            
            self.unknownAlbum.addSong(song)
            #print "yo " + song.__str__()
            a = True
            self.songs.append(song)
            return
            
        elif a != True:
            #print 'yea ' + song.__str__()
            newAlbum = Album(a)
            newAlbum.setArtist(self.name)
            self.albums.append(newAlbum)
            
            print self.addSong(song)
##~             print "@"+
self.albums[self.albums.__len__()-1].__str__()
            return
        
        
    
    def deleteSong(self, name): #give song name
        
        x = 0
        while x < self.songs.__len__():
            cname = self.songs[x].getName()
            
            if cname == name:
                a = self.songs[x].getAlbum()
                
                for calbum in self.albums:
                    if a == calbum.getName(): 
                        calbum.deleteSong(name)
                
                del self.songs[x]
                return True
            
            x += 1
        
        return False
    
    def addAlbum(self, Album): #must be album class
        aSongs = Album.getSongs()
        for song in aSongs: self.songs.append(song)
        Album.setArtist(self.name)
        self.albums.append(Album)
    
    def deleteAlbum(self, name):
        
        x = 0
        while x < self.albums.__len__():
            cname = self.albums[x].getName()
            
            if cname == name:
                
                cSongs = self.albums[x].getSongs()
                
                for cSong in cSongs:
                    self.deleteSong(cSong.getName())
                
                del self.albums[x]
                return True
            
            x += 1
        
        return False
    
    def __str__(self):
        val = ''
        for x in self.albums:
            val += x.__str__() + '\n'
            
        
        return val
    
    def getSongs(self): return self.songs
    def getAlbums(self): return self.albums

#test stuff
s = Song('song 1')
s2 = Song('song 2')

a = Album('hey')
a.addSong(s)

art = Artist('Tim')

art.addAlbum(a)
art.addSong(s2)

print art
art.deleteSong(s.getName())

print art
---------------------------------------------------------------------


cheers
Tim Henderson








"Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote in message news:<nrudnceoVIIV5QDcRVn-hw at rogers.com>...
> Please post the implementation of the Album class.  The problem is coming 
> probably from the way the Songs list is defined or initialized.  That is, 
> the definition or the initialization probably cause the list object that is 
> assigned to Songs to be shared by all the Album instances.  But I (and 
> likely no one else) can say exactly what the problem is without seing the 
> code.
> 
> Dan
> 
> "Tim Henderson" <tim.tadh at gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:47f7cc78.0411182007.1b77c2b1 at posting.google.com...
> > Hi i have some errors in my code that i can't find the reason for here
> > is the error
> >
> > i have 3 classes:
> > -Song
> > -Album
> > -Artist
> >
> > Song has 3 pieces of data with getter and setter meathods:
> > -Name | i.e. song name
> > -Album
> > -Artist
> >
> > Album has 3 pieces of data:
> > -Songs | a list of Song() instances
> > -Name
> > -Artist
> >
> > Artist has 4 pieces of Data:
> > -Name
> > -Songs | a list of Song() instances
> > -Albums |a list of Album() instances
> > -unknownAlbum | the album a song is put into if it doesn't have an
> > album
> >
> >
> > now the problem arises when i add songs into multiple albums like
> > this:
> > Code:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> > s = Song('song 1')
> > s2 = Song('song 2')
> >
> > a = Album('hey')
> > a.addSong(s)
> > ab = Album('yeayea')
> > print a
> > print ab
> > ab.addSong(s2)
> > print
> > print a
> > print ab
> > ------------------------------------------------
> > Output:
> > ************************************************
> > hey song 1    hey   |
> > yeayea song 1    hey   |
> >
> > hey song 1    hey   | song 2    yeayea   |
> > yeayea song 1    hey   | song 2    yeayea   |
> > ************************************************
> >
> > the "hey" album has "song 1" as it is suppose to however so does
> > "yeayea" even though when "song 1" was put in the album "hey" 'yeayea'
> > didn't even exist yet.
> >
> > Why is this happening. I checked the actually memory refrence for each
> > instance and they are different, these supposidly isolated different
> > intances of clases are linked for some inexplicable reason.
> >
> > Does any one know why this is happening and how i can fix it?
> >
> > cheers
> > Tim Henderson


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov 23 03:15:13 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:15:13 GMT
Subject: Is there a consensus on how to check a polymorphic instance?
In-Reply-To: <1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>

Mike Meng wrote:
> Here is my problem. My project needs to parse some user input
> string according to  specific rules. The rules can be defined with a
> string, a CSV file, an XML file, and other forms. Followed the standard
> OO style,  I designed a dictionary-like base class to abstract those
> different sources and provides other parts a uniform interface to query
> those rules.  I put some hard code into the base class and expect user
> to inherit from it.

The big question, I guess, is what do you want to happen if a user did 
not inherit from your base class, but still provides all the appropriate 
functionality?  In a dynamically-typed language like Python the answer 
is usually that the user's class should still be considered valid, 
though of course there are exceptions to this rule.

For example, say I write the following function:

 >>> def process_rules(rules):
...     for rule in rules:
...         print rule.name
...

Do I really care if the 'rules' object inherits from, say, the Rules 
class?  Probably not.  I care that it is iterable, and that the items 
that it contains have a name attribute.  Here's a few different ways I 
could write an object that conforms to this interface:

 >>> class Rule(object):
...     def __init__(self, name):
...         self.name = name
...
 >>> process_rules([Rule(s) for s in 'abc'])
a
b
c
 >>> class Rules(object):
...     def __init__(self, names):
...         self.names = names
...     def __iter__(self):
...         for name in self.names:
...             yield Rule(name)
...
 >>> process_rules(Rules('abc'))
a
b
c
 >>> class NastyRules(object):
...     def __init__(self, names):
...         self.names = names
...         self.index = -1
...     def __iter__(self):
...         return iter([self]*len(self.names))
...     def __getattr__(self, attr):
...         if attr == 'name':
...             self.index += 1
...             return self.names[self.index]
...         raise AttributeError
...
 >>> process_rules(NastyRules('abc'))
a
b
c

Of course, if you write your code like NastyRules, you should be drug 
out into the street and shot ;) but the point is that there are a 
variety of ways that a class could support the given interface and still 
do everything you've asked it to.  If you'd like to give your users the 
option to implement the interface in whatever way seems most 
appropriate, you shouldn't be testing isinstance:

 >>> isinstance([Rule(s) for s in 'abc'], list)
True
 >>> isinstance(Rules('abc'), list)
False
 >>> isinstance(NastyRules('abc'), list)
False

In the example above, if you test isinstance, you disallow your user 
from writing either of the other two implementations.

Note that you can still give useful error messages if you catch the 
appropriate exceptions:

 >>> def process_rules(rules):
...     try:
...         rules = iter(rules)
...     except TypeError:
...         raise TypeError('process_rules argument must '
...                         'support iterator protocol')
...     for rule in rules:
...         try:
...             print rule.name
...         except AttributeError:
...         	raise TypeError('process_rules argument must '
...                             'produce objects with name attribute')
...
 >>> process_rules([Rule(s) for s in 'abc'])
a
b
c
 >>> process_rules(Rules('abc'))
a
b
c
 >>> process_rules(NastyRules('abc'))
a
b
c
 >>> process_rules(1)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
   File "<interactive input>", line 5, in process_rules
TypeError: process_rules argument must support iterator protocol
 >>> process_rules(range(10))
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
   File "<interactive input>", line 11, in process_rules
TypeError: process_rules argument must produce objects with name attribute

So again, the real question here is: If a user creates a class that 
appropriately implements the interface, but doesn't inherit from your 
base class, should their code fail?

Steve


From oriana.falco at thalesesec.com  Wed Nov 10 11:05:28 2004
From: oriana.falco at thalesesec.com (Oriana)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 08:05:28 -0800
Subject: ZIP files
Message-ID: <808f000f.0411100805.7bff7e5d@posting.google.com>

Hi!


I'm beginning to use the zipfile module in Python and I'm confused
about something. I am trying to extract certain files from one zip and
copy them into another one. This is the code I?ve got so far:

 
import string 
import os, re
from zipfile import *

 
path= raw_input("\n Please enter the zipfile to be copied: ")

new_zip= ZipFile('something.zip', 'w')


orig_zip=ZipFile(path, 'r')
zip_files= orig_zip.namelist()
 

for file in zip_files:
    if  file[-2:] == '.c' or file[-2:] == '.h' or file[-4:] == '.exe':
        tempfile = open(file,'w')
        x = orig_zip.read(file)
        tempfile.write(x)
        tempfile.close()
        new_zip.write(file)

 

So far, this code does the work, but I think it's to much work for
just copying entire files
Is there any other way to do this????
Basically, what I want to do is create a copy of the zip but with a
different name
thanks in advance, Oriana


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Nov 12 14:56:40 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:56:40 -0800
Subject: Regarding color conversion (RGB->CMYK)
In-Reply-To: <4194bd54$0$75308$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>
References: <4194bd54$0$75308$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <4195289b$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Johan Holst Nielsen wrote:
> After that my thoughts was on PIL (Python Imaging Library). The colors 
> was better - but to bright - cause it didn't include K (so it was 
> basicly a RGB=>CMY conversion - Black is 100% Cyan, Magenta and Yellow).
Then make a K layer:
     K = min(C,M,Y)
     and reset C, M, Y = C-K, M-K, Y-K


From calmasy at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 19:21:54 2004
From: calmasy at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Count_L=E1szl=F3_de_Alm=E1sy?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 02:21:54 +0200
Subject: ping-based network monitoring GUI?
Message-ID: <abb783b9041117162129a1ae48@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings,

I'm in need of a simple GUI application that "monitors" a range of
hosts using ping and reports on their status by changing the panel
color for that host (i.e, green for pingable, red for unreachable). 

Does anyone know of any existing opensource program that does this?
Preferably Python so I can extend it easily.

If not, what tools would you recommend I write this kind of app in?
Ping doesn't seem to be supported by Python out of the box, and the
modules I've looked at seem sketchy.  I looked at Expect, and see
there's a Pexpect module available.  Once I have the core
functionality nailed down, I'll probably wrap it with Tkinter.

Thanks for any advice.


From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Tue Nov  2 04:00:47 2004
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:00:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Will code for Carnaval?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411011711480.3809-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <Xns959565E33F0FAcpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>

Grzegorz Dostatni <grzegorz at ece.ualberta.ca> wrote in 
news:Pine.LNX.4.44.0411011711480.3809-100000 at e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca:

> In any case, I feel I can trust anyone who programs in
> Python, thus I am posting this message here.

That's my vote for "quote of the week".

Sorry, can't help you with carnival or brasil in general.

Harald


From mesteve_bpleaseremovethis at hotmail.com  Sat Nov  6 10:26:20 2004
From: mesteve_bpleaseremovethis at hotmail.com (StvB)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 15:26:20 GMT
Subject: How come wxPython isn't in the standard library?
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<J5Zid.43995$v03.956437@wagner.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <w26jd.39054$QJ3.15800@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

I had that 'problem' a couple of times, but it was just a matter of writing 
my code more cohesively and organizing my exception hierarchy so that 
certain exception clauses cover a more narrow range of code, and catch a 
more wide range of exceptions.

>
> I haven't used WxPython for a little while, but not long ago (less than a 
> year) it was dreadfully easy to crash a program if even a little mistake 
> happened. Add to that that WxPython prigram will silently eat any 
> unexpected exceptions, and you get a very hard to debug situation.
>
> For me, this would sisqualify wxPython as a standard Library component.
>
>
> Steve 




From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Mon Nov 29 17:06:05 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 23:06:05 +0100
Subject: Help on creating a HTML by python
In-Reply-To: <50d96c9b.0411281856.6c8d2ae9@posting.google.com>
References: <50d96c9b.0411281856.6c8d2ae9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cog6ni$nb6$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

sepgy wrote:

> Can anyone help me to use a python to create an HTML photo gallery
> generator. When it's finished, it will be able find all the picture
> files (i.e. .jpg, .gif. .png files) in any given folder on the
> computer, automatically create smaller thumbnails for each image, and
> then generate a complete HTML file that displays a clickable image
> gallery. When viewed in a web browser, the HTML file will display the
> thumbnails in a neatly formatted table, and if you click on one of the
> thumbnails the full-size image will appear.

Once I had similar idea -- I planned to use PIL for generating 
thumbnails and some templating/transformation library for generating 
HTML. It all ended up with HTMLTemplate 
(http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/htmltemplate.html), as it 
is simple and compact.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/ | http://www.zgodowie.org/


From ben.champion at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 10:21:10 2004
From: ben.champion at gmail.com (Ben Champion)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 07:21:10 -0800
Subject: numarray
Message-ID: <2617fd5d.0411180721.12c50d8a@posting.google.com>

I have installed python 2.3.3 on my windows machine have have ran
several programs succesfully. I have also installed numarray 1.1 for
my version of python and am now trying to create arrays using the
array command, eg

>>>Import Numeric
>>> a = array([1, 2, 3])

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#1>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    a = array([1, 2, 3])
NameError: name 'array' is not defined

if I just enter 

>>>Import Numeric

I get 

>>> 

indicating that numarray is installed correctly.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks in advance

Ben


From loritsch at gmail.com  Thu Nov 11 02:18:31 2004
From: loritsch at gmail.com (Michael Loritsch)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 23:18:31 -0800
Subject: Beginner's scoping question
References: <4ef0f3a4.0411101240.21132006@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <e253918f.0411102318.1c364237@posting.google.com>

contact at alanlittle.org (Alan Little) wrote in message news:<4ef0f3a4.0411101240.21132006 at posting.google.com>...
> a=1
> b=[]
> class C():
>    def __init__(self):
>       a=2
>       b.append(3)
> 
> c = C()
> 
> print b
> # [3]
> 
> # but ...
> print a
> # 1
> 
> ???

The key points are as follows:

The statement 'a=2' simply assigns the 'name' 'a' the value '2' within
the local scope of your __init__ function.

If a name does not exist in the local scope at the time of an
assignment, the name will be created within the local scope, rather
than attempting to look up the name in an enclosing scope.

On the other hand, had there already been an identifier named 'a'
within the __init__ function, the assignment would have simply
assigned the value '2' to the name 'a' regardless of what 'a'
originally referred to.

Now, the statement 'b.append(3)' is not an assignment statement.  For
this reason, there is no attempt to bind an object to the name 'b'. 
In fact, the method 'append' is called, which implies that 'b' is
already bound to an object that implements an 'append' method (if not,
an AttributeError exception will be raised when the object named 'b'
is found, assuming it is found).

Thus, in order to call 'append' on 'b', 'b' must first be found. 
First the local scope is searched for the name 'b' (your __init__
method).  After failing to find it, the enclosing scope is searched,
where the name 'b' was found.

For this reason, the code:

b=[]
class C:
    def __init__(self):
        b=[]
        b.append(3)
 
c = C()
print b

would print out '[]', as I presume you expect.  The key to this
behavior is the assignment statement (i.e. b=[]) within the scope of
the __init__ method.

Regards,

Michael Loritsch


From programmer.py at gmail.com  Wed Nov 10 10:05:50 2004
From: programmer.py at gmail.com (Jaime Wyant)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:05:50 -0600
Subject: sockets: How to know when your data is sent
In-Reply-To: <4190fdab$0$87168$a1866201@visi.com>
References: <f00811ba.0411090653.5f6d1d29@posting.google.com>
	<4190e27f$0$95596$a1866201@visi.com>
	<K4k*FXdzq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
	<4190fdab$0$87168$a1866201@visi.com>
Message-ID: <d52c72d204111007051b914191@mail.gmail.com>

On 09 Nov 2004 17:26:03 GMT, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
[ snip! ]
> Unfortunately, many people who write network applications (and
> protocols) make all sorts of bizarre assumptions, and somebody
> ends up jumping through hoops later to try to fix things when
> those assumptions turn out to be wrong. :/

Woah!  This is all enlightening news to me.  Of course, what little
bit of socket level stuff I've done, I've always had a
"send/acknowledge" type protocol wrapped around.  I guess I've just
been lucky so far :-).

jw


From mrpac at gmx.de  Tue Nov  2 03:46:20 2004
From: mrpac at gmx.de (Alexander Stante)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 09:46:20 +0100
Subject: Newbie question
References: <783d0f8c.0411012330.4172d1d4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.02.08.46.20.216993@gmx.de>

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 23:30:17 -0800, Uday wrote:

> My problem is that I need to dynamically generate a unique 
> variable within a for loop in Python. The name of the variable
> should be appended by the index of the loop. 
I think exec is what you want:

for x in range(10):
    exec "var_%d = %d" % (x, x)

This creates var_0 ... var_9 and assigns them the value of the index. exec
executes strings which can be dynamically created at runtime. Okay, I
guess performance isn't very well but if it is not crucial, who cares?

> I am not in python.users mailing list, please reply to me directly.
No, if you want answers you should read it, at last the thread you
started. People answering your posting are not answering because of you,
but because of all the other peoples who have the same/similar question.

Regards
Alex


From shalabh at cafepy.com  Thu Nov 18 23:37:00 2004
From: shalabh at cafepy.com (Shalabh Chaturvedi)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 20:37:00 -0800
Subject: Class Encapsulation Errors in Python 2.3.3
In-Reply-To: <47f7cc78.0411182007.1b77c2b1@posting.google.com>
References: <47f7cc78.0411182007.1b77c2b1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cnjt48$gj6$1@sea.gmane.org>

Tim Henderson wrote:

<snip>
> 
> now the problem arises when i add songs into multiple albums like
> this:
> Code:
> ------------------------------------------------
> s = Song('song 1')
> s2 = Song('song 2')
> 
> a = Album('hey')
> a.addSong(s)
> ab = Album('yeayea')
> print a
> print ab
> ab.addSong(s2)
> print
> print a
> print ab
> ------------------------------------------------
> Output:
> ************************************************
> hey	song 1    hey   | 
> yeayea	song 1    hey   |
> 
> hey	song 1    hey   | song 2    yeayea   | 
> yeayea	song 1    hey   | song 2    yeayea   | 
> ************************************************
> 
<snip>

Defnition of addSong() would help in determining the real cause. Taking 
a guess here but it looks like the 'list' you store the songs in is 
shared across all albums. Typically this happens if you define the list 
in the class itself making it a class attribute - and not in __init__(). 
Please show us the code of Album to help you further.

Shalabh



From russblau at cox.net  Fri Nov 12 08:58:19 2004
From: russblau at cox.net (Russell Blau)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:58:19 -0500
Subject: escape sequences in list comprehensions
References: <940ee3e8.0411120517.488d16ca@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Zj3ld.1008$Qj.980@lakeread07>

"kartik" <kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:940ee3e8.0411120517.488d16ca at posting.google.com...
> Escape sequences don't seem to work in strings within list comprehensions:
>>>> print ['%s\n' %i for i in [1,2,3]]
> ['1\n', '2\n', '3\n']
>
> What am I missing?

You're missing what happens when you print *any* list containing strings:

>>> print ['\n', '\n']
['\n', '\n']

-- 
I don't actually check my hotmail account, but you can replace hotmail with 
excite if you really want to contact me. 




From davidf at sjsoft.com  Tue Nov 30 11:11:19 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 18:11:19 +0200
Subject: Help on creating a HTML by python
In-Reply-To: <50d96c9b.0411281856.6c8d2ae9@posting.google.com>
References: <50d96c9b.0411281856.6c8d2ae9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <coi637$j78$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

sepgy wrote:
> Can anyone help me to use a python to create an HTML photo gallery
> generator. When it's finished, it will be able find all the picture
> files (i.e. .jpg, .gif. .png files) in any given folder on the
> computer, automatically create smaller thumbnails for each image, and
> then generate a complete HTML file that displays a clickable image
> gallery. When viewed in a web browser, the HTML file will display the
> thumbnails in a neatly formatted table, and if you click on one of the
> thumbnails the full-size image will appear.

Note that with the EXIF.py tool you can extract existing thumbnails 
stored inside JPEG or TIFF files without generating them yourself, which 
is much faster.
Most digital cameras nowadays generate these thumbnails...

David


From kelzar at sponsra.com  Thu Nov 18 10:41:01 2004
From: kelzar at sponsra.com (David Geller)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:41:01 +0100
Subject: smtplib, auth and covad
Message-ID: <419cd362$1_1@127.0.0.1>

Hi,

I had been using smptlib to send email via my covad relay previously (several months ago), and it worked fine. Covad requires authentication, and this was accomplished fine with smtp.login(usrname, pwd).

Today when I tried the program, it stopped working. Using the smtp debug option, I determined that when 

send: 'AUTH PLAIN abcdef\r\n'

I would get the exception:

smtplib.SMTPServerDisconnected: Connection unexpectedly closed


Soooooo, it turns out that the covad mail server does not like to have the base64 username/password in the same line as the AUTH PLAIN. While it appears that the RFC2554 allows for this, covad does not (anymore).

I had to modify  smtplib.login() to do the following:

send 'AUTH PLAIN'
wait for status code 334
send the base64 username/password
wait for status code 235

--------------------------------------- CODE
elif authmethod == AUTH_PLAIN:
            (code, resp) = self.docmd("AUTH", AUTH_PLAIN)
            if code != 334:
                raise SMTPAuthenticationError(code, resp)
            (code, resp) = self.docmd(encode_plain(user, password),"")
-------------------------------------------------

Question: should the official smtplib be modified to allow for this situation?

(Python 2.3)

Thanks!

David Geller

 Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
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From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 17:18:34 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 20:18:34 -0200
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
	number of output arguments)
In-Reply-To: <864d37090411171346d00ef54@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<864d37090411171346d00ef54@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <864d370904111714182816b7d1@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:46:02 -0200, Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
> The return of this function would be a 'named tuple'. It could be
> treated like a sequence (using __getitem__), or like a dict (using
> __getattr__). This way, we could have the best of both worlds; the
> simplicity of tuples and the convenience of named attribute access.

Well.. I think I should have googled for it *before* hitting the send button :-)

There are a few recipes in the Python Cookbook to deal with named
tuples. I've collected some pointers for those who may be interested
into this topic:

* Tuples with Named Elements via Spawning -- Derrick Wallace
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/303770

* Tuples with named elements -- Andrew Durdin
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/303439

* super tuples -- Gon?alo Rodrigues
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/218485

* Tuples with named elements - using metaclasses -- Andrew Durdin
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/303481

* Just van Rossum's NamedTuple
http://just.letterror.com/ltrwiki/JustVanRossum_2fNamedTuple

* Christos Georgiou -- an old reference to a similar problem (named
structs) on Google Groups
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=735o0vk4uciifl692o51fk9om87o37bo6k%404ax.com

* Another reference to the same code posted above, from the author's website
http://www.sil-tec.gr/~tzot/python/TupleStruct.py

One of the reasons I became interested on this is related to my
previous problems with 'unordered' dicts in some contexts, specially
when implementing some metaclass tricks. We've had some discussion
here about two months ago, and  one of the comments was that it would
be useful if the locals() dict used in a class definition stored order
information. I see some parallels between the two problems (ordered
dicts and named tuples). The fact that named tuple are immutable by
definition should help in this case.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From vinay_sajip at red-dove.com  Wed Nov 10 04:29:39 2004
From: vinay_sajip at red-dove.com (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:29:39 +0000
Subject: ANN: New configuration module released
In-Reply-To: <6f402501.0411090032.17087428@posting.google.com>
References: <2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840@posting.google.com>	<cmbet0$d51$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6072.1099842837.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<6f402501.0411090032.17087428@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4191DF83.4010602@red-dove.com>

Michael Foord wrote:

> ConfigObj (here we go...) my config file parser, if called with just a
> filename, parses everything in the config file and presents the
> results as a dictionary. That means you can add config file support
> with basically 1 line of code (plus the import statement). This is
> particularly useful for small admin scripts where you write the config
> files yourself - speed and simplicity over flexibility.

I agree that speed and simplicity are important, and if you can get them 
without sacrificing flexibility, even better. I looked at ConfigObj, and 
I would summarise the advantages of the config module I released over 
ConfigObj as follows. It shares the following features which you find 
desirable (from the ConfigObj documentation):

* Ease of use - dictionary like access
* Multiple (list) values for keywords
* Easy to create, modify and write files
* Human readable
* Comments are preserved
* Quoting is optional [where unambiguous]
* Powerful set of options for parsing and writing

It also has the following additional features (apologies if ConfigObj 
offers them too, I'm going by the documentation):

* There's no limit on the level of nesting of lists or mappings. One of 
my main problems with ConfigParser is the limited depth of 2 levels - 
sections and keys. This is where I found ConfigObj too limiting, too.
* Easy access to real Python objects such as sys.stderr or logging.DEBUG 
  or values from modules in the application using the config module.
* Good support for value substitution and value sharing.
* Access via attribute notation (a.b) as well as dictionary notation 
(a['b']).
* There's no need for special quoting (like &mjf-quot; and &mjf-lf;). 
Triple-quoted and raw strings are not (yet) supported, but you can use 
single or double quotes and escape characters inside the string.
* Good integration with optparse.
* Defaults can be handled using ConfigList, which allows looking through 
a list of configurations and returns a value from the first 
configuration which defines one.
* Support for merging configurations (not an especially common use case) 
and including configurations held in separate files (this use case is 
more common).
* You can access a value through a path: cfg.a.b[3].c['d e'] is 
equivalent to cfg.getByPath("a.b[3].c['d e']"). This is useful where 
paths are constructed dynamically in the application, rather than 
hard-coded. (For example, using sys.platform in the path to get 
platform-dependent values.)
* Can easily handle remote configurations - you simply provide your own 
stream opener, e.g. urllib2.urlopen().

Conversely, there is no schema-like support in my module, which 
ConfigObj offers through configspecs. I could, of course, add it later 
if I felt it necessary. The reason I don't provide schemas is that I 
haven't felt it necessary for application configuration, though of 
course if makes perfect sense to use them in data-exchange applications 
(for which XML is often better, anyway). By not providing a schema, the 
main thing users have to deal with is missing values or values which are 
of the wrong type. To my mind, roughly the same amount of work is 
required to deal with this as with handling exceptions thrown by a 
schema validation layer; especially as a schema cannot always catch 
semantic errors in the data.

Best Regards,


Vinay Sajip


From jdgamache at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  1 09:51:54 2004
From: jdgamache at hotmail.com (Jean-Daniel Gamache)
Date: 1 Nov 2004 06:51:54 -0800
Subject: global variable not assigned, newbie question
Message-ID: <dd1d9b4f.0411010651.27e4ca35@posting.google.com>

Hi! here's a python newbie question ...
why is my variable (myNum) not assigned the value 10 ???

========

myNum = 0

def setNum():
    myNum = 10
    print myNum
    
def main():
    setNum()
    print myNum

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Nov 10 12:51:13 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 18:51:13 +0100
Subject: Problem with Python module
References: <1100108851.526778.282530@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cmtked$r8h$00$1@news.t-online.com>

> I have tried using the mxODBC package from eGenix.

I can't help you on your actual problem - but I have successfully accessed
ms sql server from unix using unix-odbc and the freetds driver. Maybe using
these solves your problems.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From falted at openlc.org  Tue Nov  9 08:55:29 2004
From: falted at openlc.org (Francesc Alted)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 14:55:29 +0100
Subject: Add a file to a compressed tarfile
References: <pan.2004.11.05.13.52.18.538666@hotmail.com>
	<cmg85n$qg2$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
	<20041105101135.F83C.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5995.1099737571.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.06.12.04.07.475273@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <cmqi8i$1as$1@nsnmpen3-gest.nuria.telefonica-data.net>

Dennis Hotson wrote:
> I managed to get my function working... although it decompresses
> everything and then compresses it back... Not the best, but good enough I
> think.

If you want a solution that allows to append files to an archive, while
allowing compression, take a look at FileNode, a module that has been added
to the latest PyTables package (www.pytables.org). You can see the
documentation (and tutorials) for the module here:

http://pytables.sourceforge.net/html-doc/c3616.html

It supports the zlib, ucl and lzo compressors, as well as the shuffle
compression pre-conditioner.

HTH,

Francesc Altet


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Sat Nov  6 07:21:14 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 10:21:14 -0200
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04> <418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
Message-ID: <864d370904110604213799f2e8@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 18:33:10 -0500, Hans Nowak <hans at zephyrfalcon.org> wrote:
> John Machin wrote:
> 
> > Or is this a joke/troll?? I can't believe the "unimelb.edu.au"; surely
> > a forgery.
> 
> Is it just me, or is the climate in c.l.py getting less friendly to
> newbies?  In any case,
> http://www.zoology.unimelb.edu.au/staff/nicholas.htm mentions Maurice
> Ling as an honor student.

Not only that, but Maurice Ling has started a long thread a few weeks
looking for a good research topic for his thesis (involving Java &
Python, btw). At some points he was bashed, but went ahead with the
discussion, that ended up touching in several interesting topics.

As for the climate in c.l.py, it's just interesting to note that the
climate *is* getting less friendly, and that it does coincide with
several old-timers moving away from the list. A few years ago I
remember that the likes of Tim Peters, effbot, Skip Montanaro, and
several others (sorry, I would really like to remember more names from
the top of my head) were frequent posters here. They've now moved to
other interests, or are focusing their efforts on the python-dev list.
It must not be a coincidence.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Mon Nov 15 21:52:41 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:52:41 -0500
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
In-Reply-To: <419933fc.152607187@news.oz.net>
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<4195419b.303035081@news.oz.net>
	<slrncpgm80.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6381.1100534178.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<419933fc.152607187@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <1f7befae04111518527b04676d@mail.gmail.com>

[Bengt Richter]
> Would it be a big deal to give the acquire method an optional
> timeout=floating_seconds keyword arg, and have e.g. thread_nt.h use
> the timeout parameter in WaitForSingleObject? This could ripple up
> to Condition.aquire etc. and provide improved waiting over polling.
> (Of course, there's probably a number of polling processes going on
> all the time in the average windows session, but why add ;-)
...
> Do you think just a lock timeout would make it significantly harder?
...
> So what do you think about a lock timeout. Just that would let you
> build efficient terminatable substitutes for sleep and other timing things.

I rarely use timeouts, and, in the cases I do, haven't seen a
measurable burden due to the current wake-up-20-times-a-second
approach.  So I have no motivation to change anything here.

Someone who does would have to go thru Python's 11 platform-specific
thread wrappers (these are C files in the Python/ directory, with
names of the form thread_PLATFORM.h), and figure out how to do it for
all of them -- or successfully argue that Python should no longer
support threads on those platforms for which they don't know how to
add the new core lock functionality -- or successfully argue (this one
is closer to impossible than unlikely) that platforms are free to
ignore the timeout argument.


From caleb1 at telkomsa.net  Mon Nov 29 23:24:54 2004
From: caleb1 at telkomsa.net (Caleb Hattingh)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 23:24:54 -0500
Subject: asynchat and threading
References: <Ij1pd.19554$ld2.4796764@twister.nyc.rr.com>	<mailman.6755.1101310280.5135.python-list@python.org>	<4edc17eb.0411241036.72eed3ef@posting.google.com>	<41a505c2$0$20660$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<e69d3ed2041124173965892985@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.6889.1101762321.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <opsh9fvsz71js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>

I heartily support something like this, but alas I have not the time to  
help out with it.  I like the Enthought python distribution because it  
installs several packages in one shot.  A pity there isn't a similar thing  
for python addons in Linux (or is there?).

Something apt-get-like would be cool.  Was there talk of having the python  
package index support something like this at some stage?

>
> If I could simply do: py-get twisted
> and have all of the dependencies resolved, it would be wonderful.  as a  
> prototype, I would suggest wrapping apt-get with a python envelope which  
>   automatically invokes apt-get with a python specific configuration  
> file for .pydeb files as well as a private repository and database etc..  
>   Since apt-get exists for almost every version of Linux and should be  
> portable to other platforms, this distribution method should be  
> relatively distribution portable.
>
> One can also handle upgrades of the core image of Python and ancillary  
> packages as well by leaving a breadcrumb file indicating which packaging  
> system is native and the package currently installed. <<- idea needs work
>
> yea? nay?
>
> ---eric
>



From anthony at python.org  Wed Nov  3 18:50:50 2004
From: anthony at python.org (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 10:50:50 +1100
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.4, beta 2
Message-ID: <41896EDA.5020805@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I'm
happy to announce the second beta of Python 2.4.

Python 2.4b2 is a beta release. We'd greatly appreciate it if you could
download it, kick the tires and let us know of any problems you find,
but it is probably not suitable for production usage.

~    http://www.python.org/2.4

Notable changes in beta2 include another bug fix in the intersection
of weakrefs and the garbage collector, time.strptime() correctly
handling %U and %W arguments, and a fix for a problem of old source code
being cached and shown in tracebacks. There's a number of other bugfixes
as well, see either the highlights, the What's New in Python 2.4, or the
detailed NEWS file -- all available from the Python 2.4 webpage.

This is the second beta release of Python 2.4. Python 2.4 is now in the
beta part of the release cycle - there should be few or no new features,
merely bug fixes. From here, we plan to have a release candidate in
a couple of weeks, and a final release at the start of December - but
obviously this plan is subject to change, based on any problems that
might crop up.

Please log any problems you have with this release in the SourceForge
bug tracker (noting that you're using 2.4b2):

~    http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?group_id=5470

Enjoy the new release,
Anthony

Anthony Baxter
anthony at python.org
Python Release Manager
(on behalf of the entire python-dev team)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFBiW7YDt3F8mpFyBYRAq7DAKCskVfPO4LEQlC3zijupOnd9snCWACgpMHX
bH7xepODsyo1115TMQ9CQkw=
=0UOq
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Nov 16 07:37:47 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 07:37:47 -0500
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
In-Reply-To: <slrncpjdjo.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <mailman.6380.1100532166.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpjdjo.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <4199F49B.5020005@holdenweb.com>

Antoon Pardon wrote:

> Op 2004-11-15, Jp Calderone schreef <exarkun at divmod.com>:
> 
>>On 15 Nov 2004 11:44:31 GMT, Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote:
>>
>>>Op 2004-11-15, Peter Hansen schreef <peter at engcorp.com>:
>>>
>>>>Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>AFAIU the Queue module doesn't block on a full/empty queue when
>>>>>a timeout is specified but goes in a loop sleeping and periodically
>>>>>checking whether place/items are available. With signals that
>>>>>can be sent to a thread the queue could just set an alarm and
>>>>>then block as if no timeout value was set and either unblock
>>>>>when place/items are available or get signalled when the timeout
>>>>>period is over.
>>>>
>>>>I'm fairly sure that the Queue uses an internal Event
>>>>(or REvent?) to signal when space or a new item is
>>>>available, so I believe your description (and possibly
>>>>conclusion) above is wrong.  There should be no
>>>>"periodical check", as that would imply polling.  Check
>>>>the source if you're interested.
>>>
>>>I did check the source, I just didn't study it carefully
>>>and got my understanding mostly from the comments.
>>>But anyway here is the relevant part and IMO we have
>>>a polling loop here.
>>>
>>
>>  You are correct, but why does it matter?  The Queue class works.
> 
> 
> Does it?
> 
> I'm not so sure. If two consumers ask simultaneously for an element
> from the same empty queue. One consumer simply blocking and the
> other using a timeout, I think that if an element is produced within
> the timeout period the chance for the element going to either consumer
> should be equal. I doubr very much we have that in the current
> situation.
> 
Well, everybody can *think* what they like, I suppose. It certainly 
works for some value of "work".
> 
>>Why should Python be changed in a difficult and complex way to...
> 
> 
> It doesn't change python, it changes an implementation. Sometimes
> difficult and complex implementation do a better job than easier
> implementations. That we already have an implementation that works
> is therefore not a strong argument against an other implementation.
> 
It is if there's nobody to provide the new implementation.

> 
>>make the Queue class continue to work?  If you can give other examples
>>of the uses you have in mind, that might help convince people of the
>>value of this change.  But be sure you give examples of things that don't already work.
> 
> 
> Well how about the following code, it works in the main thread, but
> doesn't in a normal thread according to the documentation:
> 
>   class SystemAlarm(Exception):
>     pass
> 
> 
>   def ringalarm(signum, frame):
> 
>     raise SystemAlarm
> 
> 
>   signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, ringalarm)
> 
> 
>   def lock(fl):
> 
>     ''' lock a file. If the parameter is a string, first
> 	open it. If the lock couldn't be aquired in five
> 	minutes, raise an exception.
>     '''
> 
>     if isinstance(fl, type('')):
>       fd = os.open(fl, os.O_RDWR | os.O_CREAT , 0700)
>       fl = os.fdopen(fd, 'r+')
>     signal.alarm(300)
>     try:
>       fcntl.flock(fl, fcntl.LOCK_EX)
>       signal.alarm(0)
>     except SystemAlarm:
>       raise IOError("Couldn't aquire lock;")
>     except:
>       signal.alarm(0)
>       raise
> 
And the moral of this story is "open source can be a pain in the neck"?

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From grante at visi.com  Thu Nov 11 16:07:22 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 11 Nov 2004 21:07:22 GMT
Subject: I don't quite get this "string".find()
References: <mailman.6274.1100201807.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<opshb098fw1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
	<mailman.6284.1100205453.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<opshb2jjml1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
Message-ID: <4193d489$0$95606$a1866201@visi.com>

On 2004-11-12, Caleb Hattingh <caleb1 at telkomsa.net> wrote:

> Err...discrete math was never my strong point :) Still,
> matching 'emptiness' to non-emptiness is what conceptually
> raises the problem for me.  I am not convinced that because
> there are only 'so many places' to fit, one is restricted to a
> finite number of possibilities - simply because what we are
> trying fit is 'nothing'.

Ah, but the question wasn't how many empty strings would fit,
but at how many places you could "find" one.  :)

If you have three pins, then there are only three pinheads on
which you can find a dancing angel -- regardless of how many
angles can dance on the head of a pin (assuming it's not zero).

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I smell a RANCID
                                  at               CORN DOG!
                               visi.com            


From lbates at syscononline.com  Wed Nov  3 11:33:48 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 10:33:48 -0600
Subject: Should I learn Python?
In-Reply-To: <624a388a.0411021328.5ac41f4c@posting.google.com>
References: <624a388a.0411021328.5ac41f4c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <zJSdnVFYcsH6lRTcRVn-oQ@comcast.com>

I also learned PHP first, but have been very happy that I
moved to Python.  The OOP capabilities are no comparison
(e.g. Python is better IMHO).  It is the richness of the
standard library and add-ons that make Python a good choice.
Things like ReportLab, Python Imaging Library, SMTP, FTP,
URLlib, etc.

One of my recent sites used PHP for front-end UI and Python
for backend database processing.  The combination worked well
for that client.  I still think that if I did it today, I would
do it all in Python, but the combination worked well.  The UI
was not complex so I did it in PHP very quickly.

One very big difference is that I can do more DIFFERENT things
in Python than PHP.  I can write standalone programs with Python
using wxWindows, etc.  I've written COM objects, Windows Services,
plain scripts, programs that manipulate the Windows Registry,
programs that modify the NT user database, you name it.  These
types of programs just don't make sense in PHP.  I find that I
am able to learn one language very well instead of VB for GUI
apps, C/C++ for services/COM objects, PHP for web applications, ...

Python just addresses a wider landscape over more different
platforms for me.

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.


Sam wrote:
> Hi, 
> I have been developing sites and cms's for the past few years using
> PHP and mysql. I've been interested in learning a new language and was
> considering Python. I have a pretty decent grasp of OOP concepts (i
> know, you're skeptical since I mentioned PHP). I don't have a formal
> programming background, just learning as I go.
> 
> So, with that being said, here are some dumb questions.
> 
> 1. What can I do with Python that I can't do with php? 
> 
> 2. Do you use both PHP and Python in conjunction with each other?
> 
> 3. In what way could I utilize Python to compliment existing sites or
> apps built with PHP?
> 
> Thanks for any help.


From jean-louis.nespoulous at vatech-td.fr  Mon Nov 22 02:41:39 2004
From: jean-louis.nespoulous at vatech-td.fr (Jean-Louis Nespoulous)
Date: 21 Nov 2004 23:41:39 -0800
Subject: Help for a newbie in Python and ZODB
Message-ID: <39eca62c.0411212341.330dabdc@posting.google.com>

Hello everybody,
I am in charge to develop a system who will analyse a network, type
Three-Tier Architecture. I would like to use ZODB or (exclusive)
PostgreSQL. But I don't know witch one to use? Someone could help me
and tell me what are the differencies between ZODB and PostgreSQL. My
system will be developped in Java. If I use ZODB how I'll make the
transition with Python?
Thank you very much


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sun Nov  7 08:02:40 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 14:02:40 +0100
Subject: Beginning with Classes
References: <a37cb$418cce14$53e8229a$32210@freeler.nl>
Message-ID: <n7avm0yp3ooh$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Noud Aldenhoven (2004-11-06 14:33 +0100)
> For almost half a year I'm programming in Python. I never programmed before
> Python. In that half year I learned a lot, but one thing I still can't
> programme correct... Classes.
> 
> Is there a tutorial or a documentation about Python and classes. Starting
> from beginners and ending in avarege or expert?

* Object Oriented Programming With Python
  http://www.devshed.com/c/a/Python/Object-Oriented-Programming-With-Python-part-1/
  http://www.devshed.com/c/a/Python/ObjectOriented-Programming-With-Python-part-2/


From peter at somewhere.com  Sun Nov 21 14:17:07 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:17:07 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <309qrmF2im5d4U1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>	<cnlgv2$vc$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6616.1100893198.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3073pnF2rf1v9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<10pt5sfdr8hh52e@corp.supernews.com>
	<309qrmF2im5d4U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <30c80dF2tb3mcU1@uni-berlin.de>

Peter Maas schrieb:
> Isnot is the inequality operator applied to memory addresses. That these
> are hidden in VB, doesn't make this a new invention worth to be protected.
> E.g. electrical power supplies are a pretty old thing. If somebody would
> try to get a patent on the application of electrical power supplies to
> TVs this would probably (hope so) rejected and so should the application
> of the inequality operator to memory addresses.

I believe what these patent guys get wrong and mixed up is the
difference between inheritance and specialization. If you invent a
power supply that transmits power without using a wire this is an
invention that inherits from power supplies in general and is of
course something new because it has a feature not shared by previous
power supplies. But to simply narrow down the application range is
not new but a trivial twist not worth to be metioned let alone be
patented.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net  Sat Nov  6 18:32:42 2004
From: mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net (Jean Brouwers)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 23:32:42 GMT
Subject: parsing pyton code
References: <mailman.6015.1099773489.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <061120041533292141%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>


Check the source of the 'code' module, especially the runsource()
method of the InteractiveInterpreter class.  Also, see these docs

<http://docs.python.org/lib/module-code.html>


/Jean Brouwers
 ProphICy Semiconductor, Inc.


<mailman.6015.1099773489.5135.python-list at python.org>, Philippe C.
Martin <philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm looking for a very simple way to figure out if a line of code requires 
> further lines of code ex: for i in range(10): So far I have found the 
> following trick that seem dangerous to me since it assumes the string 'EOF' 
> exists in the exception message.
> 
> Do I have the right to do this ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> import compiler
> import string
> try:
>     compiler.parse('for i in range(10):')
> except SyntaxError, (val1, val2):
>     print val1
>     print val2
>     l_eof = False
>     l = string.split(val1,' ')
>     for l_c in l:
>         if l_c == 'EOF':
>             l_eof = True
>             break
>     if l_eof == True:
>         print 'YES'


From hgk at et.uni-magdeburg.de  Fri Nov 12 02:45:23 2004
From: hgk at et.uni-magdeburg.de (Hans Georg Krauthaeuser)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:45:23 +0100
Subject: pickle: huge memory consumption *during* pickling
In-Reply-To: <111120041639473294%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>
References: <cn00o5$r0j$1@fuerst.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<mailman.6272.1100201176.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<111120041639473294%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>
Message-ID: <cn1pmh$a2c$1@fuerst.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>

Yes, I'm sure that I'm using cPickle.

But, I don't use protocol 2. I will try that and post the difference.

Thanks for the hint.

Hans Georg

Jean Brouwers wrote:
> Good point.  Double check first that you use
> 
> - import cPickle
> 
> - cPickle.dump(<obj>, <file>, 2)  # note, protocol 2
> 
> /Jean Brouwers
>   ProphICy Semiconductor, Inc.
> 
> 
> 
> In article <mailman.6272.1100201176.5135.python-list at python.org>,
> Gerrit <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hans Georg Krauthaeuser wrote:
>>
>>>Today morning we reached the situation that it took 6 hours to pickle 
>>>the class instance. The pickle file was than approx. 92 MB (this is ok). 
>>>During pickling the memory consuption of the python proccess was up to 
>>>450 MB (512 MB RAM -> machine was swapping all the time).
>>>
>>>My class use data types taken from a c++ class via swig. Don't know if 
>>>that is important...
>>>
>>>My feeling is that I'm doing something wrong. But my python knowlegde is 
>>>not so deep to see what that is.
>>>
>>>Is there an other way to perform an autosave of an class instance? Shelve?
>>
>>Are you sure you are using cPickle as opposed to pickle?
>>
>>regards,
>>Gerrit Holl.


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Nov 19 18:46:58 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 00:46:58 +0100
Subject: Global variables in modules/functions
References: <cnltf7$ra6$1@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>
	<cnm0hh$d3m$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cnm0ln$d3m$03$2@news.t-online.com>

Peter Otten wrote:

> A clean way to share data between different modules is to introduce
> another module and use a qualified name to access data in that module:
> 
> shared.py
> n = 1
> 
> main.py
> import shared
> import change
> 
> change.change_n()
> print n

Oops, that should be

print shared.n
 
> change.py
> import shared
> def change_n():
> shared.n?=?2
> 



From wenshengwang at gmail.com  Sat Nov 27 02:45:12 2004
From: wenshengwang at gmail.com (ws Wang)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 23:45:12 -0800
Subject: MySQLdb problem with mod_python, please help
Message-ID: <7b22037d.0411262345.dcff5bb@posting.google.com>

MySQLdb is working fine at command line, however when I tried to use
it with mod_python, it give me a "server not initialized" error.

This is working fine:
----------------------- testmy.py -------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/python
import MySQLdb
db = MySQLdb.connect(host="localhost", user="root", passwd="mypass",
db="my_db")
cursor = db.cursor()
cursor.execute("SELECT * FROM parks")
result = cursor.fetchall()
for record in result:
        print record[0] , "-->", record[1]
------------------------------------------------------------------
when I type "testmy.py", it give me correct results. (I run as root)

BUT,
This:
------------------ index.py --------------------
import sys, os, MySQLdb
from mod_python import apache
def handler(req):
        sys.stdout = req
        req.content_type = "text/html"
        db = MySQLdb.connect(host="localhost", user="root",
passwd="mypass", db="my_db")
        cursor = db.cursor()
        cursor.execute("SELECT * FROM parks")
        result = cursor.fetchall()
        for record in result:
                print record[0] , "-->", record[1]
        return apache.OK
---------------------------------------------------

When I tried to open it from the browser, it give me following error
message:
--------------------------------------------------
Mod_python error: "PythonHandler index"

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/mod_python/apache.py", line
299, in HandlerDispatch
    result = object(req)

  File "/var/www/html/index.py", line 6, in handler
    db = MySQLdb.connect(host="localhost", user="root",
passwd="mypass", db="my_db")

  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/MySQLdb/__init__.py", line
64, in Connect
    return apply(Connection, args, kwargs)

  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/MySQLdb/connections.py", line
116, in __init__
    self._make_connection(args, kwargs2)

  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/MySQLdb/connections.py", line
41, in _make_connection
    apply(super(ConnectionBase, self).__init__, args, kwargs)

InternalError: (-1, 'server not initialized')
-----------------------------------------------------------

My apache setting for mod_python is:
   AddHandler mod_python .py
   PythonHandler index
   PythonDebug On

mod_python works on my site, if I replace the whole database stuff
with just (print "hello, world"), I get "hello, world" on the browser.
apache is run as "apache/apache"

What did I do wrong? (Is this a priviledge problem or something else?)

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Wensheng


From michael.bierenfeld at web.de  Thu Nov 25 04:22:36 2004
From: michael.bierenfeld at web.de (michael)
Date: 25 Nov 2004 01:22:36 -0800
Subject: SysLogHandler is drivin me nuts
Message-ID: <f11c8440.0411250122.c600af1@posting.google.com>

Hi there,

I am stuck while trying to use the logging facilities. Its not logging
:-) Can somebody point me to a solution ?

The following snipplets are used

-------------------------------------------
"crap.py"

logging.config.fileConfig("logging.cfg")
logger = logging.getLogger ("syslog")
logger.info('While this is just chatty')

-------------------------------------------
"logging.cfg"

[syslog]
class=handlers.SysLogHandler
level=ERROR
formatters=form01
facility=LOG_LOCAL0
priority = LOG_INFO

[formatters]
keys=form01

[formatter_form01]
format=%(levelname)s %(message)s

-------------------------------------------
"/etc/syslog.conf"

local0.*;local0.!=debug         /var/log/local.log
local0.=debug           /var/log/local-d.log

Kind regards

Michael


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 16 02:14:16 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:14:16 +0100
Subject: determining the number of output arguments
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6361.1100470915.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cn95k1$bfq$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6371.1100498345.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnb7hi.1hwbltbftm6c1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6392.1100556222.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbg4k.13z20mj1w1o0ysN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gnc34a.1h31tyf1qbqr06N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

> > a, b, c, d = lotsa[:4]
> > 
> > _should_ properly give the impression of a code smell, if your "once and
> > only once" sense is finely tuned.  What's the business of that ':4' on
> > the RHS?  Showing the compiler that you can count correctly?!  You're
   ...
> The slicing on the right is not so much to show the compiler that you
> know how to count, it is to show the runtime that you are looking for
> a specified slice of lotsa.  How would you like the following two cases
> to be handled by your desired Python, and how would that make more sense
> than what is done now?
> 
> a,b,c = [1,2,3,4]
> a,b,c = [1,2]

I would like to get exceptions in these cases, which, being exactly what
IS done now, makes exactly as much sense as itself.  Note that there is
no indicator in either of these forms that non-rigid unpacking is
desired.  Assuming the indicator for 'and all the rest' were a prefix
star, then:

a, b, *c = [1, 2, 3, 4]
a, b, *c = [1, 2]

should both set a to 1, b to 2, and c respectively to [3, 4] and [].  Of
course there would still be failing cases:

a, b, *c = [1]

this should still raise -- 'a, b, *c' needs at least 2 items to unpack.


> > I think it would be better to have a way to say 'and all the rest'.
> > Lacking that, some automated way to count how many items are being
> > unpacked on the LHS is probably second-best.
> 
> Is it worth a keyword, or would a sys.getframe()/bytecode hack be
> sufficient? In the latter case, I'm sure you could come up with such a
> mechanism, and when done, maybe you want to offer it up as a recipe in
> the cookbook *wink*.

Two recipes in the 2nd ed of the CB can be combined to that effect
(well, nearly; c becomes an _iterator_ over 'all the rest'), one by
Brett Cannon and one by Sami Hangaslammi.  Not nearly as neat and clean
as if the language did it, of course.


> > Another case where a specific number of items is requested, which is not
> > (syntactically speaking) a multiple assignment, is assignment to an
> > _extended_ slice of, e.g., a list (only; assignment to a slice with a
> > stride of 1 is happy with getting whatever number of items are coming).
> > I don't particularly LIKE writing:
> >     L[x:y:z] = len(L[x:y:z]) * [foo]
> 
> I much prefer...
> 
> for i in xrange(x, y, z):
>     L[i] = foo

Not the same semantics, in the general case.  For example:

   L[1:-1:2] = ...

rebinds (len(L)/2)-1 items; your version rebinds no items, since
xrange(1, -1, 2) is empty.  To simulate the effect that assigning to an
extended slice has, you have to take a very different tack:

for i in slice(x, y, z).indices(len(L)):
    L[i] = foo

and that's still quite a bit less terse and elegant, as is usually the
case for fussy index-based looping whenever it's decently avoidable.

> But then again, I don't much like extended list slicing (I generally
> only use the L[:y], L[x:] and L[x:y]  versions).

It may be that in your specific line of work there is no opportunity or
usefulness for the stride argument.  Statistically, however, it's
somewhat more likely that you're not taking advantage of the
opportunities because, given your dislike, you don't even notice them --
as opposed to the opportunities not existing at all, or you noticing
them, evaluating them against the lower-level index-based-looping
alternatives, and selecting the latter.  If you think that extended
slices are sort of equivalent to xrange, as above shown, for example,
it's not surprising that you're missing their actual use cases.


Alex




From bradtilley at gmail.com  Tue Nov  2 13:45:38 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:45:38 -0500
Subject: dicts & lists together
Message-ID: <cm8kki$4fi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

I have a dict that associates strings to numbers like this {'abc': 1, 
'xyz':2, '123':3,...} I am then given a list of strings ['abc', 'xyz', 
'123',...] and asked to associate a number to each string in the list 
according to the string's value in the dict. I am at a loss as to how to 
do this, can someone show me where to start?


From seefeld at sympatico.ca  Thu Nov 11 14:01:01 2004
From: seefeld at sympatico.ca (Stefan Seefeld)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:01:01 -0500
Subject: typed variables (WAS re.compile.match() results ...)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6268.1100194701.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <2vh2mlF2lbkrdU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<41938e20$1@nntp0.pdx.net>	<hpLkd.948$ry5.537@fe51.usenetserver.com>
	<mailman.6268.1100194701.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6GOkd.971$ry5.380@fe51.usenetserver.com>

Steven Bethard wrote:

> I think perhaps Axel Bock was getting a little pedantic here.  Technically
> Python does not have typed variables; any "variable" in Python can hold an
> object of any type.  Hence examples like:

I don't see this as a contradiction (but then, may be we'd need to 
define what 'variable' means, the reference or the referee). I only
meant to point out that there is a distinction between strong/weak
and static/dynamic typing, and thus, that Axel's question was perfectly
valid.

Regards,
		Stefan



From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 14 15:33:44 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 15:33:44 -0500
Subject: Is a list an instance of a class?
Message-ID: <4197c013$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>

In the Python tutorial section 9.1, it says, "the word ``object'' in 
Python does not necessarily mean a class instance. Like C++ and 
Modula-3, and unlike Smalltalk, not all types in Python are classes: the 
basic built-in types like integers and lists are not, and even somewhat 
more exotic types like files aren't."

Is this still correct or was it made obsolete by Python 2.2? Lists and 
files have __class__ attributes, at least:

 >>> [].__class__
<type 'list'>
 >>> f = open('ThreadQueue.py')
 >>> f.__class__
<type 'file'>

So do integers and floats, though you have to ask nicely for an int:
 >>> 1.__class__
   File "<stdin>", line 1
     1.__class__
               ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
 >>> x=1
 >>> x.__class__
<type 'int'>
 >>> 0.5.__class__
<type 'float'>

Kent


From mustafademirhan at gmail.com  Tue Nov  9 14:06:29 2004
From: mustafademirhan at gmail.com (Mustafa Demirhan)
Date: 9 Nov 2004 11:06:29 -0800
Subject: Embedding Python in a multi-threaded C++ application
Message-ID: <560b81a4.0411091106.3b600668@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I am trying to add Python scripting support to one of my applications
and I really need some help regarding the thread terminations.

The application is a multi-threaded Windows application and multiple
threads need to run Python code from time to time. Everything works
fine when all the threads operate without any errors. Each thread
creates a thread state, acquires the global lock, call the Python
files and then release the lock when they are done. However,
sometimes, some of these threads needs to be terminated from the main
in the middle of their operation (this generally is done by the user -
if the Python code is not working as expected, or doing something very
very long, the user is able to terminate the thread from the main
GUI). The problem here is that if the user terminates the thread, the
thread never releases the lock.

So, my question is: is there a way to safely terminate a running
thread? If not, is there a way to release the lock of a thread from
another thread (from the main thread)?
If none of these can be done, what happens if I call Py_Finalize and
finalize the Python Interpreter and the re-start it by Py_Initialize
and PyEval_InitThreads. Will that free all the resources allocated by
the previous interpreter?

I desperately need help. I couldnt find a good documentation on the
Internet. Any helps would be greatly appreciated.

Best wishes,
Mustafa Demirhan


From jan.dries at dcube-resource.be  Tue Nov 30 07:17:12 2004
From: jan.dries at dcube-resource.be (Jan Dries)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:17:12 +0100
Subject: [OT] Re: SysLogHandler is drivin me nuts PEBCAC
In-Reply-To: <2e37dc1.0411300359.291c2822@posting.google.com>
References: <f11c8440.0411250122.c600af1@posting.google.com>	<mailman.6782.1101394046.5135.python-list@python.org>	<f11c8440.0411260207.555d2cc0@posting.google.com>	<mailman.6821.1101494250.5135.python-list@python.org>	<f11c8440.0411290154.75eeea88@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6878.1101748438.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2e37dc1.0411300359.291c2822@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <i7zrgo.chvvy9@www.jandries.be>

[Jan Dries] 
> Slightly OT, but regarding the title, shouldn't it be PEBKAC, 
> since it's 
> keyboard and not ceyboard?

[Vinay Sajip]
> PEBCAC: Problem Exists Between Chair And Computer

Interesting. I thought it was "Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair".
But this makes sensee too, of course. Nonetheless, Google has about 17000
references for PEBKAC, and only 381 for PEBCAC.

Regards,
Jan




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  6 10:06:08 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 16:06:08 +0100
Subject: Tkinter for system administration?
References: <gO%id.86818$bk1.17025@fed1read05>
	<418ca679$0$578$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <1gmu19p.5t2083xjqct2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

"Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:

> Dave Benjamin wrote:
> > Is Tkinter pretty common for simple behind-the-scenes admin tools where
> > a GUI is required (for instance, data entry tools for non-programmers)
> > or has everybody moved on to wx/GTK/QT/etc.?
> 
> Yes. It has the advantage that it is typically available when Python
> and X11 are both available.

...and even when X11 is not available, such as Windows, or Mac (on the
Aqua side of things -- many people don't even bother installing the X11
implementation on their Mac...).


> > For simple tools, is there any 
> > reason to switch to one of the more popular GUI frameworks?
> 
> No.

I agree.  That's why I chose to cover Tkinter in the Nutshell, even
though I got some surprised comments from some wx fans _and_ from people
I know I prefer Qt: Tkinter is widely available, adequate for simple
tools which need no complicated functionality nor spiffy looks, _and_
simple enough that I could cover its fundamentals in 30 pages, examples
included.


Alex


From craig at postnewspapers.com.au  Fri Nov 19 05:20:36 2004
From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:20:36 +0800
Subject: Pls Help Me
In-Reply-To: <B1FBD4037C9BD811ADD7000476EA648A09A2B1@LOCAL>
References: <B1FBD4037C9BD811ADD7000476EA648A09A2B1@LOCAL>
Message-ID: <419DC8F4.8020408@postnewspapers.com.au>

Sky Soe wrote:

>Hello Everybody,
>I've a big problem when I installed MySQLdb1.1.2 on python2.3.4 running on
>Linux 9.0.
>
Just a minor point - there's no such thing as 'Linux 9.0'. I assume you 
mean Red Hat 9.0?

It would be very helpful if you could specify how you installed Python 
2.3.4 and how you installed the MySQLdb module - for example, from 
source, from RPMs included with the distro, from third-party RPMs (and 
if so, from where?).

> And there is an error shows that " Cannot Import MySQLdb''.
>Another problem is that it shows me the fatal error that cannot run Python
>interpreter because of "Version Mismatch".
>
Cannot _run_ the interpreter, or cannot load the MySQL driver? IIRC the 
version mismatch error indicates that you have one version of Python 
trying to load modules compiled for another version, but Python will 
frequently continue anyway - just without the module you asked for.

--
Craig Ringer



From mfuhr at fuhr.org  Mon Nov 15 23:07:25 2004
From: mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 21:07:25 -0700
Subject: psycopg supress output
References: <ZY1md.16791$Km6.188698@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <41997cfd$1_2@omega.dimensional.com>

roderik <rune.hansen at scanmine.com> writes:

> How do I supress the output generated from each psycopg command:
>
>  >>> import psycopg
> initpsycopg: initializing psycopg 1.99.10
> typecast_init: initializing NUMBER

Build pscyopg without PSYCOPG_DEBUG.

-- 
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Nov 19 22:06:32 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:06:32 -0500
Subject: Identifying exceptions that can be raised
In-Reply-To: <6Rknd.6671$%M4.4203@trndny08>
References: <cVdnd.7986$tS4.4873@trndny09>
	<mailman.6579.1100837821.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<6Rknd.6671$%M4.4203@trndny08>
Message-ID: <cnmcek$rju$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

dkcpub wrote:
> Brian van den Broek wrote:
> 
>> If you mean you want a list of exceptions that a given function could 
>> raise, well, never mind :-)
> 
> Yeah, that is what I mean.  I write foo(), which calls a half-dozen 
> library functions.  What exceptions is a caller of foo() going to have 
> to handle?  It there an automated way of discovering that?

Nope.  That's that nasty ol' Java thinkin'. ;-)

Basically, given the dynamicism that is Python's hallmark,
you can't guarantee that any given function won't raise
an arbitrary exception.  I could write a function that
could raise random exceptions, including ones it wasn't
even previously aware of (by crawling the tree of classes
starting at sys.modules and discovering new ones, perhaps).

The usual approach is to have a caller catch exceptions
*which it is capable of dealing with appropriately*, and
ignore others.  In some cases it's necessary to have a
"generic" exception handler, such as at the top level of
a thread, to catch and log all exceptions, but that's
relatively rare.

In contrast to Java code, you aren't forced to catch
exceptions in a manner similar to the old-style approach
to handling error values returned by functions (that is,
by ignoring them).  Instead you write useful code that
actually explicitly catches only things it understands
and can deal with.  A breath of fresh air, really...

All that said, you do sometimes find yourself pondering
what exceptions a given function might raise and which
you *do* want to handle properly.  It's not always clear,
and unfortunately short of examining the source or hoping
that the author wrote decent documentation, you're out
of luck.

-Peter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Nov 26 02:26:55 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 23:26:55 -0800
Subject: general class functions
In-Reply-To: <1101449188.101662.118080@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.6792.1101408664.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1101449188.101662.118080@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20041125232139.FA2C.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


"syd" <syd.diamond at gmail.com> wrote:
> I guess the lesson is that globals() in an imported class is not the
> same as globals() in the main file.

Right, globals() is really the module-local namespace dictionary.  That
is, the dictionary that is the top-level scope for the current module.

While there technically isn't really a 'global scope among all modules',
it can be faked pretty well via __builtins__.__dict__ (though is not
suggested, and without doing ugly things to the 'globals()' and
__builtin__ namespaces, you don't get simple assignments to it).

 - Josiah



From speno at net.isc.upenn.edu  Thu Nov 18 21:52:51 2004
From: speno at net.isc.upenn.edu (John P. Speno)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 02:52:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: thread.error: release unlocked lock
References: <cniqlj$2cqj$1@netnews.upenn.edu>
	<mailman.6568.1100820402.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cnjn63$2rff$1@netnews.upenn.edu>

In <mailman.6568.1100820402.5135.python-list at python.org> Tim Peters <tim.peters at gmail.com> writes:

>[John P.Speno]
>> I'm using the classic Python thread model. Main thread puts stuff into
>> a Queue.Queue() and worker threads get stuff out of it and do their
>> thing.

>A bounded queue or an unbounded queue?  Blocking get/put or
>non-blocking get/put?  About how many items are in the queue?  Since

Thanks for asking. Here's what I can tell you.

Unbounded queues with non-blocking get/put. At most there are 1500 items
in the queue. There are 20 threads getting from the queue, and one
putting.

I did have bounded queues (max 40 items) and blocking puts but got the same
insane error then too.

>nobody has reported your symptom before, some detail or other is going
>to be important.  How do the standard test_thread, test_threading, and
>test_queue tests fare on this box?  Was this Python configured to use
>pthreads or native Solaris threads?

% grep -i thread pyconfig.h | grep -v ^/
#define HAVE_PTHREAD_H 1
#define HAVE_PTHREAD_SIGMASK 1
#define HAVE_THREAD_H 1
#define PTHREAD_SYSTEM_SCHED_SUPPORTED 1
#define SIZEOF_PTHREAD_T 4
#define WITH_THREAD 1

I think that means it is using native Solaris threads, assuming my reading
of thread.c is good.

All of test_thread, test_threading, and test_queue all passed.


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Tue Nov  2 18:43:31 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 00:43:31 +0100
Subject: Problems with profiling results (hotshot or normal) : almost all
 are incorrect
Message-ID: <41881ba2$0$78738$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Hello
I haven't received any responses on my original posting,
and it could very well be that it never made it to the newsgroup
(because I can't find it back on my news server here).
So I'm posting this again. Sorry if it *did* make it to
the group.. Please consider trying my test-program that is given
here and let me know how it works on your python installation.

Thanks for any insight on this.

--Irmen

[original message follows]

Irmen de Jong wrote:
> Okay I tried some profiling, but am uncertain about the
> results I'm getting. They confuse the hell out of me.
> 
> I have a test program (see below) that essentially has
> two loops that get called repeatedly. One that is an idle
> wait loop, and one that is a busy-wait CPU hogger.
> I wanted to see what profiling results that would give.
> The total runtime of the program is 10 seconds, where 5
> seconds are spent in the CPU-loop and 5 seconds in the idle
> wait loop.
> 
> But what I'm getting is not what I expected.
> 
> For instance, with python2.3.4 on windows, it says:
> (hotshot:)  21 function calls in 35.772 CPU seconds
> (normal: )  23 function calls in 10.008 CPU seconds
> Python 2.4b1 on windows gives:
> (hotshot:)  21 function calls in 0.001 CPU seconds
> (normal: )  260362 function calls in 6.724 CPU seconds
> 
> I know that timing information on Windows is sometimes
> difficult to get, but the above is really weird. Anyway
> so I also tried it on my Linux (mandrake 10) computer:
> 
> Python 2.3.4 on linux:
> (hotshot:)  21 function calls in 17.542 CPU seconds
> (normal: )  23 function calls in 5.000 CPU seconds
> Python 2.4b1 on linux:
> (hotshot:) 21 function calls in 0.000 CPU seconds
> (normal: ) 52474 function calls in 1.650 CPU seconds
> 
> Conclusion: only *one* of the above test runs gives the
> right summary (in my opinion): the normal profiler of
> python 2.3.4 on linux (5 CPU seconds).
> The normal profiler of python 2.3.4 on windows also counts
> the idle loop time apparently, and gives 10 CPU seconds.
> But all the others are waaaay off!
> 
> (and I haven't event talked about the detailed function
> call profiling statistics).
> 
> Can anybody please help me out? Am I doing something wrong,
> or is the profiler just not reliable yet?
> 
> Confused-ly y'rs,
> --Irmen de Jong
> 
> 
> PS using the 'time' command on linux, when running the test
> program, gives 0:20.19elapsed 50%CPU which is what I expected.
> 
> 
> -------------------- test program ---------------
> import time
> 
> def foo():
>     # idle wait loop
>     time.sleep(0.5)
> def bar():
>     # busy (CPU) wait loop
>     s=time.time()
>     while time.time()<(s+0.5):
>         pass
> 
> def test():
>     for i in range(10):
>         foo()
>         bar()
> 
> if __name__=="__main__":
>     import hotshot, hotshot.stats, wait
>     import profile, pstats
> 
>     print "HOTSHOT profiling..."
>     prof = hotshot.Profile("wait.prof")
>     prof.runcall(wait.test)
>     prof.close()
>     print "PROFILE DONE"
>     stats = hotshot.stats.load("wait.prof")
>     stats.strip_dirs()
>     stats.sort_stats('time', 'calls')
>     stats.print_stats(40)
> 
>     print "Normal profiler..."
>     profile.run('wait.test()', 'wait.prof')
>     print "profile done"
>     stats = pstats.Stats('wait.prof')
>     stats.strip_dirs()
>     stats.sort_stats('time', 'calls')
>     stats.print_stats(40)
> 


From claird at lairds.us  Mon Nov 29 18:08:03 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 23:08:03 GMT
Subject: tkinter manual question
References: <e5063e96.0411291358.7998dc61@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <kdjs72-uiu.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <e5063e96.0411291358.7998dc61 at posting.google.com>,
Sean McIlroy <sean_mcilroy at yahoo.com> wrote:
>The 'Canvas Methods' section of the online Intro to Tkinter
>(http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/x2102-methods.htm)
>refers (without explanation) to something called "bbox". What is this?
>TIA

"bounding box"

http://downloads.openchannelsoftware.com/WebWinds/rel4/files/BoundingBox.html


From youngn at gmail.com  Wed Nov 10 13:14:17 2004
From: youngn at gmail.com (Norman Young)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 10:14:17 -0800
Subject: SWIG
Message-ID: <16b3e7c7.0411101014.40671601@posting.google.com>

Hi,

Forgive me that the following aren't really Python questions but SWIG
questions:

1) I'm trying to SWIG a function that looks like this:

void print(ofstream out);

The problem is that the variable "out" is a keyword in the target
language (C#, actually).  Thus, I want the variable to be renamed to
something like, "outStream".  I've tried various syntatical variations
on the %rename directive with little success.  Without having to
modify the source C++ file, how do I achieve this seemingly simply
rename?

2) The library I'm trying to SWIG contains the following #defines:

#define OFBool bool
#define OFTrue true
#define OFFalse false

How do I get SWIG to use "bool" instead of "OFBool" when generating
the wrapper in the target language?

Thanks.

Norman


From and-google at doxdesk.com  Sat Nov 13 12:05:41 2004
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 13 Nov 2004 09:05:41 -0800
Subject: Comparing two minidom objects
References: <727daa7e.0411081033.276d5eba@posting.google.com>
	<cmohdq$j1l$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0411130905.452a1813@posting.google.com>

Diez B. Roggisch <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote:

> The nodeName is just one property you can check for equality - maybe you
> want to additionally compare nodeType and nodeValue.

Probably. Also each of Element.attributes if there are any attributes
in the object, and Node.namespaceURI if the document uses namespaces.

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

> I'd like to compare two xml.dom.minidom objects, but the naive attempt fails
> >>> d1 == d2
> False

DOM Level 3 Core defines the method Node.isEqualNode:

  http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-3-Core/core.html#Node3-isEqualNode

Which would do such a comparison. minidom doesn't support it yet, but
pxdom does. Otherwise, it's not too much work to write a recursive
comparator such as the above.

(The Python == operator does the same as DOM3's Node.isSameNode, or
'is'.)

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/


From meng.yan at gmail.com  Mon Nov 22 22:30:36 2004
From: meng.yan at gmail.com (Mike Meng)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 19:30:36 -0800
Subject: Is there a consensus on how to check a polymorphic instance?
Message-ID: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

hi all,
I'm a newbie Python programmer with a C++ brain inside. I have a
lightweight framework in which I design a base class and expect user to
extend. In other part of the framework, I heavily use the instance of
this base class (or its children class). How can I ensure the instance
IS-A base  class instance, since Python is a fully dynamic typing
language?

I searched and found several different ways to do this:

1. In `Text Processing in Python', David Mertz suggests using `hasattr'
to check abilities instead of type checking.

2. In ActiveState's Python Cookbook site, Alex Martelli suggested a
safe and accurate `look before you leap' technique on
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52291

3. In this group, some others suggest using isinstance() builtin
function to check instance.

Now my questions:
1. Is my design speaks native Pythonish? Such design is native in C++
and Java OO style, but I'm not sure about this in Python.

2. As I state in title, is there a consensus on how to check a
polymorphic instance? I find all the three ways above is a little bit
tedious compared with C++ and Java, in which compile-time type checking
ensures the interface protocol, any better ideas in Python?
Any comments will be appreciated.



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov  3 23:53:21 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 04:53:21 GMT
Subject: pep 336:  Make None Callable
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <4189b29c.1567244508@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 20:59:43 -0700, The Eternal Squire <eternalsquire at comcast.net> wrote:

>PEP: 336
>Title: Make None Callable
>Version: $Revision: 1.1 $
>Last-Modified: $Date: 2004/11/03 16:58:30 $
>Author: Andrew McClelland
>Status: Draft
>Type: Standards Track
>Content-Type: text/plain
>Created: 28-Oct-2004
>Post-History:
>
>
>Abstract
>
>     None should be a callable object that when called with any
>     arguments has no side effect and returns None.
>
>
>Motivation
>
>     To allow a programming style for selectable actions that is more
>     in accordance with the minimalistic functional programming goals
>     of the Python language.
IMO in the context of selectable actions, the noop should be a noop function,
not None, e.g.,

    def Noop(*args, **kwargs): pass

>
>
>Rationale
>
>     Allow the use of None in method tables as a universal no effect
>     rather than either (1) checking a method table entry against None
>     before calling, or (2) writing a local no effect method with
      IMO (3) using a global def Noop should take care of it.

>     arguments similar to other functions in the table.
>
>     The semantics would be effectively,
>
>         class None:
>
>             def __call__(self, *args):
                                      ^-- ,**kw # otherwise it might bomb ;-)
>                 pass
>
>
>How To Use
>
>     Before, checking function table entry against None:
>
>         class Select:
>
>             def a(self, input):
>                 print 'a'
>
>             def b(self, input):
>                 print 'b'
>
>             def c(self, input);
>                 print 'c'
>
>             def __call__(self, input):
>                 function = { 1 : self.a,
>                          2 : self.b,
>                          3 : self.c
                         }.get(input, Noop)
                  return function(input)

#XXX>                        }.get(input, None)
#XXX>                 if function:  return function(input)
>
>     Before, using a local no effect method:
>
>         class Select:
>
>             def a(self, input):
>                 print 'a'
>
>             def b(self, input):
>                 print 'b'
>
>             def c(self, input);
>                 print 'c'
>
#XXX>             def nop(self, input):
#XXX>                 pass
>
>             def __call__(self, input):
>                 return { 1 : self.a,
>                      2 : self.b,
>                      3 : self.c
                         }.get(input, Noop)(input)

#XXX>                        }.get(input, self.nop)(input)
>
>     After:
>
>         class Select:
>
>             def a(self, input):
>                 print 'a'
>
>             def b(self, input):
>                 print 'b'
>
>             def c(self, input);
>                 print 'c'
>
>             def __call__(self, input):
>                 return { 1 : self.a,
>                      2 : self.b,
>                      3 : self.c
                         }.get(input, Noop)(input)

#XXX>                        }.get(input, None)(input)
>
>
>References
>
>     [1] Python Reference Manual, Section 3.2,
>         http://docs.python.org/ref/ref.html
>
>
>Copyright
>
>     This document has been placed in the public domain.
>
>
>
>Local Variables:
>mode: indented-text
>indent-tabs-mode: nil
>sentence-end-double-space: t
>fill-column: 70
>End:

I'd rather not complicate the meaning of None, I think ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From niels_bohr at uol.com.br  Sat Nov  6 20:58:30 2004
From: niels_bohr at uol.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio?= Mendes)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 23:58:30 -0200
Subject: PEP new assert idiom
In-Reply-To: <10oqppb9s0mhe49@news.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10oqppb9s0mhe49@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1099792710.8551.25.camel@localhost.localdomain>

> I see two difficulties with it.
> 
> First, you can do the same thing (I think) with a
> try block around a sequence of statements and
> an assert in the except block. This means you
> will need a fairly strong use case based on
> convenience to add the syntax to the language.
> You will have to show that it will be used a lot.

I meant expression instead of statement, sorry, that's my fault. It's a
minor cosmetic change I should say, only to avoid long grouping of
expressions with an 'and' operator. It's better expressed as: let the
commas take the place of 'and' in assertion verifications... Maybe that
could be extended to other parts of the language, but the only place I
think it would be useful is in assertion statements.

Thanks,
Fabio


From xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net  Tue Nov 23 07:46:34 2004
From: xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 12:46:34 GMT
Subject: Small Database Needed
References: <20041121145440.85318.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6677.1101076901.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<7652139e.0411222150.75ed8aaf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns95AA8C6B3114CPaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.69>

mrchameleon at hotmail.com (Chris Reay) said :

> http://www.netpromi.com/kirbybase.html
> 
> I've not used it, but it may fit your needs, and it's pure Python
> (there's a pure Ruby version, too).
 
I have -- for simple things, where I'd have used flat-file text storage 
anyway. In that context it works well and saves a lot of time & utilitarian 
coding. DateTime support, in particular, is nice.

For more complex uses, howerver, one must be aware that it doesn't compare 
to SQLite or even Gadfly -- it doesn't do SQL for starters (has its own 
simple, pythonesque query syntax) and is more geared to single-table usage 
(no joins, lookups, cursors out of the box).

When it fits the bill though, it's probably the simplest, easiest and most 
lightweight pure-python solution available.

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From danperl at rogers.com  Tue Nov 23 11:00:04 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 11:00:04 -0500
Subject: Is there a consensus on how to check a polymorphic instance?
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<KrKdnXvgGaP_Jz_cRVn-pg@rogers.com>
	<1101189570.958016.283130@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <-sSdnZs3heYawz7cRVn-iA@rogers.com>

I was referring to a different kind of context in my posting.  Not exactly 
the code implementation but rather how is the code being used.  Are you the 
only one using this code and can you be confident that the function toDOM 
will be called only with objects that it is designed to handle?  Or are you 
implementing this function as part of a module that will be used by 
hundreds/thousands of users over the next ten years?

In other words, how much do you trust the test that if hasattr(xml_src, 
'documentElement') is true then "it's already a DOM object"?  What if a user 
who downloads your code off the internet 2 years from now calls toDOM with 
an object that he implemented and that has an attribute 'documentElement' 
but that object behaves in a way totally different from what you expect for 
a DOM object?  Even you may make such a mistake if you use this code again 
only one year from now, after forgetting how you implemented it.

OTOH, you may not have much of a choice but use the hasattr test in this 
case if documentElement is an attribute that is commonly used by all the DOM 
parser implementations and you want to be able to switch parsers without 
changing your code.  I am using the assumption that not all the parsers 
inherit from a common base class or else you could use isinstance with that 
class.  I am not familiar enough with XML parsers so I don't know if 
documentElement is such an attribute.

The other hasattr test in the example, for a 'read' attribute, is such a 
case.  'read' is a commonly used attribute name for methods that read data. 
It doesn't matter whether it is a file, or a stream, or a queue, or 
whatever, as long as it is readable and read() returns a string.  Mind you, 
this is still an incomplete test because it does not guarantee the string to 
be XML.  But it is probably the best choice compared to testing for all the 
possible sources of XML text that you might use.

I see actually two issues here.  One is of checking inputs and that comes 
down to safety vs. flexibility.  You make a test very strict or very 
flexible depending on many criteria.  You have to consider your users, 
future changes, etc.

The other issue is one of design.  How do you design a set of classes that 
need to follow a common interface but implement that interface in different 
ways?  You can create a base class and subclass all the other classes from 
this one.  But thanks to python's dynamic typing, if the base class is 
abstract and all its attributes are overridden in the subclasses, you may as 
well just forget about inheritance and just implement all the subclasses to 
follow an interface protocol.  That's what iterators and generators are.

So, getting back to our topic, if you use inheritance to implement your 
classes or you have only one class, then use isinstance.  If you have a set 
of classes that do not have a common base class and instead just implement 
an interface protocol, then use hasattr.  Your question was about 
polymorphic instances.  That implies inheritance, but you may want to 
consider also protocol implementation and that is what other posters are 
suggesting.

I think that an interesting question here is whether inheritance or protocol 
implementation is the preferred way in python.  I'm not sure what the answer 
is to that question.  One advantage I see in inheritance is to allow 
stronger checks like isinstance vs. hasattr.  I come from a very 
conservative background in software development and strong checks are deeply 
rooted in my mind.  But it looks to me that python is not about that or else 
it wouldn't have dynamic typing.

Dan

"Mike Meng" <meng.yan at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1101189570.958016.283130 at f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Thank you Dan,
> Solution #1 is concluded from 'Text Processing in Python', section
> 1.1.3, `Pythonic Polymorphisim', around there, here is an example he
> provides:
>
> def toDOM(xml_src = None):
> from xml.dom import minidom
> if hasattr(xml_src, 'documentElement'):
> return xml_src     # it's already a DOM object
> elif hasattr(xml_src, 'read'):
> # it is something that knows how to read data
> return minidom.parseString(xml_src.read())
> elif type(xml_src) in (StringType, UnicodeType):
> # it is a filename of an XML document
> xml = open(xml_src).read()
> return minidom.parseString(xml)
> else:
> raise ValueError, "Must be initialized with " + \
> "filename, file-like object, or DOM object"
> What's your opinion?
> 




From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Wed Nov  3 19:16:47 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 16:16:47 -0800
Subject: Why is heapify linear?
In-Reply-To: <87hdo9t479.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>
References: <4186cb77$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<87hdo9t479.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>
Message-ID: <418979c6$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
  <cost of "heapify from the bottom" and an offer to provide a picture>
 > (there is a simple picture that I can present that will prove it to
 > you, if desired).
At which point I became embarassed at not having done my homework before
asking.  The sum itself clearly adds to the claimed value, but I hadn't
even read the heapify code yet and was wishing I could hide.  I presume
this picture matches Isaac To's ASCII picture.

Tim Peters wrote:
 > [Scott David Daniels]
 >> The "hand wave" on dict building is because I am still stuck in the
 >> sad old world where, when we said O(1), we meant "worst case linear."
 > I don't recall much consistency about this no matter how far back we
 > look,
Sorry, the we was more from my personal history (a particular institute
and some of Knuth's classes), not all-of-CS history.  I look at O(n) or
linear and think "worst-case," as did everyone in our study groups or
hanging around our education research institute.  I wasn't working
towards a doctorate at the time, and only read odd papers for "fun."
I had managed to make a few things infeasibly fast with priority queues
back then, knew their implementation as heaps, and erroneously thought
I knew rough properties.

Isaac To wrote:
  <A beautiful explanation of "why linear worst-case">
Thanks, Isaac for writing such a short, clear explanation.  I'll still
do the Floyd penance, but now I know the gist and can read for it.  The
first exposition of a principle is often not as obviously clear as
subsequent attempts.

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Nov 28 09:19:33 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 09:19:33 -0500
Subject: A lock that times out but doesn't poll
In-Reply-To: <Gr8qd.5826881$6p.937672@news.easynews.com>
References: <slrncq5vvl.61m.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<kJqpd.5108720$ic1.478957@news.easynews.com>
	<uis7sxu95.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<Gr8qd.5826881$6p.937672@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <cocmon$k3c$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Jive wrote:
> Here is a common example from my line of work: You set a piece of machinery
> into motion.  If everything is operating normally, it will reach a certain
> point and interrupt a light beam.  You must react to that event instantly.

"Instantly" is of course impossible, even with a language
faster than Python.  You probably have some specific maximum
latency in mind.  And maybe this is a hard realtime system
and maybe it's not.

Python, of course, is unsuitable for many hard realtime systems,
and if you're using Windows you are probably on the wrong platform
in the first place.  (Just on Friday we were doing a little bit
of latency measurement in a similar situation.  97 times out of
100 the Python code on a fast WinXP machine was taking less than
the required 0.35 seconds to respond and finish its processing.
Once it took 0.37 seconds, once it took 0.85 seconds, and once
it took just over 1.0 seconds.  Windows....)

> A year ago I volunteered (on this group) to do the general work, and the
> specific module for Windoze.  I was told,  "Just post your cute little code
> to some free software repository somewhere."  At least that's the way I felt
> at the time. Of course, no one here knows "Jive" from Adam.  There is a
> tendency on the net to assume anyone you don't recognise is a clueless
> newbie, and everything they post is naive blather. I've been cruising and
> using the newsgroups under one name or another since the mid 80's.
> 
> So where was I before I went off into old fart mode?  Oh yeah.  It really
> should go into the main Python distribution.

The bar for putting things in the main distribution should be
very, very high.  One of the conditions for doing that should
probably be that the code is fairly widely used and widely
required.  It's not apparent that this is yet the case.

Why not post it to an appropriate "recipe" page in the fledgling
Agile Control Forum site instead?  (http://www.engcorp.com/acf)
That way others who *do* work in the machine control field will
have an early chance to try out your code, experiment, maybe
even improve it, fix bugs, and basically do some of the work that
*should* be done before anything gets into the main Python distro...

-Peter


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Nov 17 18:14:13 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:14:13 +1100
Subject: Rounding curiosity
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE4A90C6@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

Donn Cave wrote:

> Actually it will anyway - once you use "print", you
> get a str() automatically, and that rounds off in a
> way that happens to give you the same result in this
> case - so the formatting above is superfluous unless
> the occasional trailing zero is important.  If repr()
> did the same, we'd hear a lot less of this.

`repr` used to do the same - it was changed precisely *because* it was
lying.

`str` is meant to give a human-readable representation. `repr` is meant
to give an *accurate* representation (where possible).

Tim Delaney


From sjackman at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 12:51:39 2004
From: sjackman at gmail.com (Shaun Jackman)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:51:39 -0800
Subject: Line buffering pipes
In-Reply-To: <1gmkjbh.wuxl2l1f1okchM%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.5690.1099098625.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmkjbh.wuxl2l1f1okchM%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7f45d93904110109513c032cf@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Chris and Alex,

tcpdump is buffering its output, and it seems the standard behaviour
of libc's stdio is to block buffer output going to a pipe. The FAQ
'Why not just use a pipe (popen())?' of the pexpect module addresses
this question thoroughly. Lucky for me and this particular case,
tcpdump provides a -l switch to line buffer the output even if it's
going to a pipe for the typical case of tcpdump -l | tee log.

I see that file.next() is also block buffering regardless of the
requested buffering method. I'd prefer to use the pretty form.
    for line in os.popen( 'tcpdump -l'): print line
However, the not-so-pretty form is required for line buffering.
    file = os.popen( 'tcpdump -l')
    while True: print file.readline()

Can file.next() be coaxed to behave as asked?

Please cc me in your reply. Thanks,
Shaun


> Then it looks like the buffering is being done by the application you're
> driving.  Try pexpect.sourceforge.net maybe...
> 
> Alex


From rune.hansen at scanmine.com  Mon Nov  8 10:26:05 2004
From: rune.hansen at scanmine.com (Rune Hansen)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 16:26:05 +0100
Subject: mod_python, multiple calls to PythonAuthenHandler
References: <pan.2004.11.08.09.08.47.408661@scanmine.com>
	<AsKjd.13323$931.11468@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.08.15.25.55.131182@scanmine.com>

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 08:18:45 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:

> Rune Hansen wrote:
> 
>> I've posted this question on the mod_python mailing list but didn't get 
>> much response, so I thought I'd post it here.
>> 
>> (My first attempt connected to an unrelated thread..sorry.
>> Note-to-self:-must-get-more-coffee-before-posting-)
>> 
>> It seems to me that for each path element in a URI a mod_python handler
>> will be invoked. This applies to PythonAuthenHandler,
>> PythonHeaderParserHandler and so on.
>> 
>> Since I'm making a database request in my PythonAuthenHandler, this 
>> quickly becomes a problem.
>> 
>> Example:
>> http://lucene.moonspawn.scanmine.com/ =>
>> 	AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: 1
>> 	index got called once
>> 
>> http://lucene.moonspawn.scanmine.com/SearchHandler.py/search =>
>> 	AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: 1
>> 	AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: 2
>> 	/search got called once
>> 
>> http://lucene.moonspawn.scanmine.com/search.html => (using mod_rewrite)
>> 	AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: 1
>> 	AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: 2
>> 	AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: 3
>> 	/search got called once
>> 
>> I get the same behavior on three separate installations
>> 
>> So, either I've got a miss-configuration which results in multiple calls 
>> to handlers or.., this is expected behavior, and there is a technique to 
>> avoid this or..., this is expected and, for reasons that escapes me, 
>> desired behavior.
>> 
>> I'd greatly appreciate any help and suggestion
>> 
>> regards
>> 
>> /rune
> 
> Well, the thing that's missing here is the code of your AuthenHandler 
> (or some detail about which standard component you think is being used). 
> Is it possible you are making internal redirects, for example?
> 
> The information about using mod_rewrite does imply you are spending time 
> on authentication rather more frequently than you strictly need to, but 
> it's difficult to figure out from just the information given.
> 
> regards
>   Steve

Hi Steve, 
The configuration and "files" shown below results in the "Example" of my
orignal post.

httpd.conf:
"""
<VirtualHost *:80>
	ServerName lucene.moonspawn.scanmine.com
	ServerAdmin rune.hansen at scanmine.com
	DocumentRoot /Users/roderik/Sites/Lucene
	ErrorLog logs/lucene_error.log
	CustomLog logs/lucene_access.log common
</VirtualHost>
<Directory "/Users/roderik/Sites/Lucene">
	Options Indexes FollowSymLinks
        AllowOverride None
        Order allow,deny
        Allow from all
        RewriteEngine On
        RewriteBase /
        RewriteRule search.html "SearchHandler.py/search"
	AddHandler mod_python .py
        DirectoryIndex SearchHandler.py
	PythonHandler mod_python.publisher
        PythonAuthenHandler AuthenHandler
        AuthType Basic
        AuthName "Restricted Area"
        require valid-user	
        PythonPath "sys.path+['/Users/roderik/Sites/Lucene']"
	PythonDebug On
</Directory>
"""

AuthenHandler.py
"""
from mod_python import apache

count=0

def authenhandler(req,**args):
    global count

    count +=1
    req.write("AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: "+str(count)+"\n")

    pw = req.get_basic_auth_pw()
    user = req.user

    if user == "mrX" and pw == "1234":
        return apache.OK
    else:
        return apache.HTTP_UNAUTHORIZED
"""

SearchHandler.py
"""
from mod_python import apache

def index(req,**args):
    req.content_type = "text/html"
    req.write("<html><head><title>Search Index Page</title><head><body>## 'index' got called once</body></html>")

def search(req,**args):
    req.content_type = "text/html"
    req.write("<html><head><title>Search /search Page</title><head><body>## '/search' got called once</body></html>")
"""

Now, I've "solved it" with a single PythonHandler (dropping
PythonAuthenHandler and publisher):

def handler(req):
    if not req.headers_in.get("Authorization",0):
    	req.err_headers_out["WWW-Authenticate"] = 'Basic realm="Restricted\
    	area"'
        raise apache.SERVER_RETURN, apache.HTTP_UNAUTHORIZED
    meth,auth = req.headers_in.get("Authorization").split(" ") 
    user,pw = decodestring(auth).split(":")
    args = dict([(a[0],a[1]) for a in util.parse_qsl(req.args or '')]) 
    if dbmdbValidate(user,pw,req.server):
	return myMethod(req,**args)
    else:
	return apache.HTTP_UNAUTHORIZED

This seems to do exactly what I want. Guess I should have tried a litle
harder before posting.
How ever, I'm still curious to why the PythonAuthenHandler is called for
each path element.

regards
/rune


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  4 15:54:31 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 21:54:31 +0100
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmp6xu.zmiw6gs3250sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5890.1099529745.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmpyz8.11h86a71kjmdttN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5916.1099587353.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdntd$788$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5920.1099589545.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmqqa3.r7hg5g17qatxkN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5931.1099600462.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gmqxmb.1r4easa174a86N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> I'm obviously upsetting you, and I can see that we're still not quite
> understanding each other.  I have to assume that you're not the only one I'm
> upsetting through these misunderstandings, so for the sake of the list, I'll
> stop responding to this thread.  Thanks everyone for a good discussion!

I apologize if I have given the impression of being upset.  I am, in a
way, I guess -- astonished and nonplusses, as if somebody asked me to
justify the existence of bread -- not of some exotic food, mind you, but
of the most obvious, elementary, fundamental substance of earthly
sustenance (in my culture, and many others around it).

> P.S. If anyone would like to know my response to the float representation
> example, please contact me directly instead.

I promise not to ACT upset if you explain it here.  So, we have an area
of 8 bytes in memory which we need to be able to treat as:
    8 bytes, for I/O purposes, say;
    a float, to feed it to some specialized register, say;
    a bit indicating sign plus 15 for mantissa plus 48 for significand,
        or the like, to perform masking and shifting thereof in SW -- a
        structure of three odd-bit-sized integers juxtaposed;
and this is ONE example -- the specific one you had asked for.

Another example: we're going to send a controlblock of 64 bytes to some
HW peripheral, and get it back perhaps with some mods -- a typical
control/status arrangement.  Depending on the top 2 (or in some case 4)
bytes' value, the structure may need to be interpreted in several
possible ways, in terms of juxtaposition of characters, halfwords and
longwords.  Again, the driver responsible for talking with this
peripheral needs to be able to superimpose on the 64 bytes any of
several possible C-level struct's -- the cleanest way to do this would
appear to be pointer-casting, though unions would (as usual, of course)
be essentially equivalent.  In Python, or another language that lets me
pack and unpack a struct to/from bytes in a controlled way (in Python's
case via the struct module) I can do that through a _copy_ -- I need to
go through a 'raw bytes' stage, cannot do the overlay directly; but
that's little more than a figleaf arrangement -- spending real CPU and
RAM operations because I can't be lowlevel/weakly-typed enough.


Alex


From cabria at fta.uva.es  Tue Nov  9 19:23:57 2004
From: cabria at fta.uva.es (Iván Cabria)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 19:23:57 MET
Subject: sh: test: argument expected and os.environ II
Message-ID: <200411091823.iA9INua4024825@relay.uva.es>

Hi again,   
   
I have checked that the shell is the bash shell by running again    
the script with a print statement. The first four lines are:   
#!/usr/local/bin/python   
import os   
os.environ['SHELL'] = "/bin/bash"   
print os.environ['SHELL']   
   
I have also read in Internet, in the following message about a    
python script:   
http://www.dbforums.com/t549675.html   
that the functions that execute a shell command will always invoke the Bourne   
shell.   
  
The message error 'sh: test: argument expected' comes from the sentence:  
energy = atoms.GetPotentialEnergy()   
in the python script I am running. Could be that this sentence is always 
invoking somehow the Bourne shell?   
   
   
Iv?n




From ncoghlan at iinet.net.au  Fri Nov 26 12:02:12 2004
From: ncoghlan at iinet.net.au (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 03:02:12 +1000
Subject: PEP263 + exec statement
In-Reply-To: <864d370904112608132d94d7d0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6806.1101470454.5135.python-list@python.org>	
	<41a7361d$0$25779$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
	<864d370904112608132d94d7d0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41A76194.2070907@iinet.net.au>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> In [3]: s = """
>    ...: a = "Ol?!"
>    ...: print "a:", a
>    ...: print "repr(a):", repr(a)
>    ...: b = u"Ol?"
>    ...: print "b:", b
>    ...: print "b(latin-1):", b.encode('latin-1')
>    ...: """

Even with a source encoding declared, I believe this statement still creates an 
ASCII string, so the encoding information gets lost. What happens if you make it 
explicitly unicode? (i.e. s = u"""". . . etc)

The way I read the PEP, compile() always treats string objects as ASCII, and 
only deals with encodings for unicode objects.

My results below at least show that whether the string object is str or unicode 
makes a difference, whereas exec vs compile() does not. ('u' in the following 
code is the same as your 's', but unicode instead an ASCII string).

My system is well and truly set up for ASCII though, so I don't think too much 
more can be read into my results (I also don't know what your expected output is!).

 >>> exec s
a: Ol?!
repr(a): 'Ol\xa0!'
b: Ol 
b(latin-1): Ol?

 >>> exec u
a: Ol??!
repr(a): 'Ol\xc3\xa1!'
b: Ol?
b(latin-1): Ol?

 >>> exec compile(s, '<string>', 'exec')
a: Ol?!
repr(a): 'Ol\xa0!'
b: Ol 
b(latin-1): Ol?

 >>> exec compile(u, '<string>', 'exec')
a: Ol??!
repr(a): 'Ol\xc3\xa1!'
b: Ol?
b(latin-1): Ol?

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at email.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
---------------------------------------------------------------
             http://boredomandlaziness.skystorm.net


From lists at debpro.webcom.dk  Tue Nov  2 18:17:30 2004
From: lists at debpro.webcom.dk (Jacob Friis)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 00:17:30 +0100
Subject: unicode and strings
Message-ID: <4188158A.5040500@debpro.webcom.dk>

I'm trying to learn Python via Marks Feedparser.

<snip src="http://feedparser.org/docs/character-encoding.html">
If the character encoding can not be determined, Universal Feed Parser 
sets the bozo bit to 1 and sets bozo_exception to 
feedparser.CharacterEncodingUnknown. In this case, parsed values will be 
strings, not Unicode strings.
</snip>

I guess this means that all data will be unicode, and to put in a 
database I could use my mycode function. Correct?

def mycode(value):
	if isinstance(value, unicode):
		value = value.encode('utf-8')
	return value

What do I do about data that is a string?

Thanks,
Jacob


From mauriceling at acm.org  Sat Nov  6 02:59:48 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 18:59:48 +1100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <87d5ysbkq9.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<87d5ysbkq9.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <418C8474.3060708@acm.org>


> 
> Do you have any data to support this ?
> On Windows XP, Windows NT and Linux (Gentoo ), I have consistently
> found python apps using wxpython to be far faster to load
> and to be far more responsive than Java apps.

well, I do not have data to support this. Just based on an impression, 
perhaps seriously flawed impression. maurice


From mustafademirhan at gmail.com  Tue Nov  9 13:49:59 2004
From: mustafademirhan at gmail.com (Mustafa Demirhan)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 10:49:59 -0800
Subject: Embedding Python in a multi-threaded C++ application
Message-ID: <560b81a404110910492229b9df@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I am trying to add Python scripting support to one of my applications
and I really need some help regarding the thread terminations.

The application is a multi-threaded Windows application and multiple
threads need to run Python code from time to time. Everything works
fine when all the threads operate without any errors. Each thread
creates a thread state, acquires the global lock, call the Python
files and then release the lock when they are done. However,
sometimes, some of these threads needs to be terminated from the main
in the middle of their operation (this generally is done by the user -
if the Python code is not working as expected, or doing something very
very long, the user is able to terminate the thread from the main
GUI). The problem here is that if the user terminates the thread, the
thread never releases the lock.

So, my question is: is there a way to safely terminate a running
thread? If not, is there a way to release the lock of a thread from
another thread (from the main thread)?
If none of these can be done, what happens if I call Py_Finalize and
finalize the Python Interpreter and the re-start it by Py_Initialize
and PyEval_InitThreads. Will that free all the resources allocated by
the previous interpreter?

I desperately need help. I couldnt find a good documentation on the
Internet. Any helps would be greatly appreciated.

Best wishes,
Mustafa Demirhan


From jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  6 14:37:50 2004
From: jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1)
Date: 6 Nov 2004 11:37:50 -0800
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <c718a6cf.0411061137.683823ec@posting.google.com>

Maurice LING <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote in message news:<418b27a1$1 at news.unimelb.edu.au>...
> > at work, we use java and python.  we have projects using swing and 
> > others using wxpython.  we have applications that do intensive io and 
> > others that do intensive cpu. we have not found that python is slower 
> > than java.   in fact, when it comes to gui's, our swing apps take 
> > "forever" to startup and when when garbage collector starts, the whole 
> > app just freezes for about 15 seconds.  our wxpython apps, start right 
> > up and "feel" faster and snappier.  can you show an example of where 
> > python's "slow" speed as compared to java's "fast" speed has negatively 
> > impacted your application or has been noticable in any way?  i know this 
> > is a trolling question you have posted, but i'm actually very interested 
> > knowing why you have said this.
> > 
> > thanks,
> > 
> > bryan
> 
> Thanks, lets just say that I have no interest in trolling.
> 
> 1st of all, I thought it is somehow common knowledge that python is 
> slower than java in many cases. Though I may be wrong... When I do a 
> Google search, this came up...
> 
> http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/python-vs-java.html
> 
> although http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/~prechelt/Biblio/jccpprtTR.pdf 
> showsjust the opposite.
> 
> What I need to work on now is something that requires speed (and dealing 
> with files), without user's intervention. So the part about users' delay 
> time is not in the equation. My choices boils down to Python or Java.
> 
> Cheers
> maurice

dude that "comparision" from twistedmatrix you refrence is ANCIENT!!!

it is comparing versions that are YEARS out of date and use!

you are just trolling or your don't know enough to understand the
answer to your question which is way to vague to be answered, as there
is no real correct answer.


From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Wed Nov 10 08:50:13 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:50:13 GMT
Subject: Has anyone released a Python "mock filesystem" for automated
	testing?
References: <OImdnYXxIItbfhfcRVn-iA@powergate.ca>
	<x7is8ksrnh.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<cmg21i$e7$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <Xns959D96EE75CJanC@213.118.38.224>

Peter Hansen schreef:

>> Just out of curiosity, does your os implement some form of disk in
>> memory disk? Go to <URL: http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi > and
>> search for either mfs or md for examples.
> 
> I need to be cross-platform, so Windows and Linux must both
> be supported.  I suspect there isn't good support on Windows
> for the sort of thing you describe.

DOS (and later Windows) have had "ram disks" for at least 20 years...

One freeware example for Windows:
<http://www.arsoft-online.de/products/product.php?id=1>

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From mmartin at gaumont.fr  Sun Nov 28 19:00:54 2004
From: mmartin at gaumont.fr (mmartin at gaumont.fr)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 01:00:54 +0100
Subject: Michel MARTIN/GAUMONT est absent.
Message-ID: <OFCAE65937.EA4DC685-ONC1256F5B.0000151D@gaumont.fr>

Je serai absent(e) du  28/06/2004 au 31/12/2004.

A compter du 28/06/04 nouvelle adresse e mail:
michel.martin at disney.com



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Nov  4 07:36:21 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 13:36:21 +0100
Subject: documenting PLYed parsers
References: <41896eb3$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <cmd7o5$k1o$02$3@news.t-online.com>

Maurice LING wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am using PLY (Python-Lex-Yacc) to write my parsers. However, it seems
> to me that PLY is using comments (especially multiline comments) in the
> Yacc component such as
> 
> def p_expression(p):
> '''expression : term PLUS term'''
> ...
> 
> So I was thinking about how can I document my codes, which can be
> processed by epydoc or happydoc? Will my comments, enclosed by ''',
> interferes with PLY?
> 
> Any comments?

How about trying it? I use spark, which utilizes comment strings, too - but
as it simply loops over the comment lines and tries to use them as grammar
rules without bailing out if a line isn't a grammar rule, I can happily put
comments in there.

And after all, you don't need to comment using the doc-string, you can use
#.  And I personally believe that a parser doesn't need to be
api-documented on every grammar rule, so you don't lose anything here.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From cuppojav at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Nov  1 16:14:49 2004
From: cuppojav at yahoo.co.uk (cuppojav)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 21:14:49 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: New to Python
Message-ID: <20041101211449.14551.qmail@web25101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hi everyone!
 
I am new to Python; I've been learning the basics of the language from the online tutorial at python.org, plus looked at some of Richard Baldwin's online tutorials.
 
I must firstly say that I have fallen in love with Python. I come from a Java background (I've been programming seriously in Java since the beginning of the year), and the simplicity and ease of use of Python is really appealing.
 
Secondly, I am obviously familiar with the basics of programming, especially OO. I've only really programmed in Java, plus a bit in Python now.
 
My main point: I've been looking for a good place to learn (by detailed, explained example, preferably) how to write Python programs and scripts: How to structure a program, how variables and functions work together, and just a general exposure to the different aspects of the language...
Something along the lines of Java's Java Tutorial (http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/) would be favourite... :) Has anyone got any suggestions? Ideas?
 
THe Python tutorial is pretty brief, and glosses over many important aspects, IMHO. Well, it *is* an introduction to Python.
 
Thanks
 
lutha

		
---------------------------------
 ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!  
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From lists at debpro.webcom.dk  Fri Nov  5 09:02:39 2004
From: lists at debpro.webcom.dk (Jacob Friis)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 15:02:39 +0100
Subject: Simple thread pools
In-Reply-To: <cmfs68$9vc$02$2@news.t-online.com>
References: <418A4900.7020304@debpro.webcom.dk>	<20041104102722.F815.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<mailman.5957.1099646551.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmfs68$9vc$02$2@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <418B87FF.5020302@debpro.webcom.dk>

> Things as maximum number of file descriptors and generally speaking IO
> operations and their limits are matters of the underlying OS, not of the
> programming language itself. So show us a way in another language, and then
> we can tell you how to do that in python.

I need to download 150000 files several times every day.
How would you solve that?

> And while using threads to wait for file IO is tempting, its a waste of
> resources.

Any ideas then?

Thanks,
Jacob




From peter at somewhere.com  Tue Nov  2 09:10:34 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 15:10:34 +0100
Subject: python backward incompatibilities
Message-ID: <cm80v0$ssg$1@swifty.westend.com>

I tried to find a comprehensive list of Python backward incompatibilities
without success. What is the fastest way to compile such a list
(with code examples / expected results)? Thanks for your hints.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Thu Nov 25 02:59:38 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 23:59:38 -0800
Subject: Python's annoyance.
References: <aa1af1ad.0411241047.4d5da2fd@posting.google.com>
	<iBcpd.50687$Es2.1096718@twister2.libero.it>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0411242359.6f32199e@posting.google.com>

"Giovanni Bajo" <noway at sorry.com> wrote in message news:<iBcpd.50687$Es2.1096718 at twister2.libero.it>...
> In fact, I find the decorator syntax awful. But I know this was already
> discussed to a large extent, so there must be a very good reason to use @.
> Which I totally miss, but hey.

Well, there is very good reason: Guido likes it!

<no further comments ...>

             Michele Simionato


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Nov 17 22:34:49 2004
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:34:49 +1300
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
 number of output arguments)
In-Reply-To: <864d37090411171346d00ef54@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<864d37090411171346d00ef54@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <419C1859.6080701@canterbury.ac.nz>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> @returns('year','month','day')
> def today():
>     ...
>     return year, month, day

I was also thinking of suggesting an extension to
the return statement:

    return year = y, month = m, day = d

but I thought one radical idea per post would
be plenty. :-)

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, +--------------------------------------+
University of Canterbury,	   | A citizen of NewZealandCorp, a	  |
Christchurch, New Zealand	   | wholly-owned subsidiary of USA Inc.  |
greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz	   +--------------------------------------+



From bockman at virgilio.it  Sat Nov  6 02:53:21 2004
From: bockman at virgilio.it (Francesco Bochicchio)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 07:53:21 GMT
Subject: looking for gtk.glade documenation
References: <pan.2004.11.05.00.29.30.309127@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.06.08.52.24.178150@virgilio.it>

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 00:33:05 +0000, John Doe wrote:

> Hi,
> does anyone have a website that covers
> gtk.glade?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Dan

Try looking here:

http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/libglade/libglade.html

As usual, when using a module wrapping an external library, you have to
search for documentation of the external library itself (in this case
libglade) and then rely on the fact that the author of the python modules
applied consistent "translation rules" between the API in the original
language (in this case C) and the API of the python module. Also,
reading  example code and doing dir(module) and help(module) helps,
sometime.




From tony.ha at philips.com  Tue Nov 30 05:41:09 2004
From: tony.ha at philips.com (Tony Ha)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:41:09 -0000
Subject: Python Design Patterns
References: <Xns95B0685EABF53Help..recipe.4.9.in.@130.139.56.200>
	<slrncqogk4.ben.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <n7Yqd.13890$3_.10239@ns2.gip.net>

Hello Dave,

    Thanks for pointing me to the Cookbook website.

Tony Ha.


"Dave Cook" <davecook at nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:slrncqogk4.ben.davecook at localhost.localdomain...
> On 2004-11-29, Tony Ha <tony.ha at philips.com> wrote:
>
> > I wonder, can any Python guru out there translate the Java examples in
the
>
> Should be a good exercise, and not just for gurus ;}.
>
> > book into Python examples, or write a similar book in Python, perhaps
>
> I've also wished for a design patterns book aimed at Python, or at least
> dynamic languages with first class functions and modules.  There's a paper
> Python book with "Patterns" in the title, but it has precious little
content
> in it related to design patterns, at least not the GOF variety.
>
> This web book has the word "Patterns" in it, too:
>
> http://www.brpreiss.com/books/opus7/
>
> But looks like it's mainly data structures.
>
> If you do a google search, and also search the Python Cookbook
>
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Python/Cookbook/
>
> you can find examples of:
>
> Singleton
> Borg
> Null
> Factory
> Observer (including a Publish/Subscribe recipe)
> Memento
> State
> Decorator
> Masquerading and Adaptation patterns (Alex Martelli paper)
> Template (another Alex Martelli paper)
> Chain of Responsibility
> Proxy
> Prototype
>
> There must be good examples in actual source code out there, too.
>
> > called "Head First Design Patterns in Python". I think, this will be a
> > great addition to Python books, and a great benefit to Python community.
>
> I just bought this book as well.  I must have adult ADD, because I do
enjoy
> the Head First format, though I disdained it at first.
>
> > P.S. I am not sure is this the right news group to post this request.
>
> Yup, this is the place.
>
> Dave Cook




From iketo2 at netscape.net  Sat Nov 20 04:32:19 2004
From: iketo2 at netscape.net (Isaac To)
Date: 20 Nov 2004 17:32:19 +0800
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <mailman.5272.1098381729.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm17og.ctwoqv17vkctxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<419EEEAA.D3C1046F@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6642.1100936758.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87actcrhlo.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Terry" == Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:

    Terry> Specialization goes in special methods -- the ones named
    Terry> __xxx__ -- of which there are now 50-100.  For each pair of
    Terry> classes, at least one of the two must know how to do xxx on
    Terry> the other.  There is no way to get around the n square
    Terry> problem, but Python pushes it into individual operations so
    Terry> you only need one function that uses the operation.  So
    Terry> planning is required for a system of user-defined classed
    Terry> such as multiple matrix implementations.

No, you don't quite understand what the OP is asking for.  C++
templates are function or classes that is parameterized by some
arguments, the parameters can either be integer constants or type
names.  So by writing a single template function you create (or
actually, you ask the compiler to create on-the-fly) many functions.
Upon using the parameterized function or class, the compiler will
choose/create the function or class for you.  Specialization is a
mechanism that allows you to create a function that overrides the
implementation for some specific parameters.  E.g., you can create a
"factorial" function as a template function:

  template <int n>
  int factorial() { return n * factorial<n-1>(); }

so that when asked, the compiler generates factorial<5>() as a
function which returns 5*factorial<4>(); factorial<4>() as a function
which returns 4*factorial<3>(), and so on.  The terminal condition is
defined using a specialization:

  template <>
  int factorial<0>() { return 1; }

When the compiler wants to generate factorial<0>(), the more
specialized form is used, which stops the recursion.  In this way you
create a compile-time computed factorial function.  During compilation
the optimizer will turn it into a constant, so no computation is done
during run-time: factorial<10>() is in every conceivable way an
integer constant 3628800.

Another example is in the standard library: it defines a vector, which
is a resizable array for specific type (e.g., ints or strings)
normally.  So a vector<int> will keep an int*, pointing to an array of
ints, used to hold the integers; and vector<string> will keep a
string*, pointing an array of strings.  But if the specific type is
"bool", a bit-vector is created instead (i.e., an int* is used
instead, each int holds 32 values).

I don't see Python supporting generic program in the way C++ does, as
it does so little thing during "compile time" (which is just to
byte-compile the program).  What I miss most is a mechanism that
allows programmers to define dispatching of functions based on types,
in a way that does not requires the programmer to specify how to do
dispatching (the compiler will figure it out by itself).  I think
there's a PEP for that, though.

Regards,
Isaac.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Nov 29 02:43:32 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 23:43:32 -0800
Subject: wxStyledTextCtrl problem ?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.28.12.10.30.74527@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
References: <pan.2004.11.28.12.10.30.74527@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20041128204715.FA3C.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Paul Robson <autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I have a wierd thing with a little editor app I'm writing.
> 
> I'm using wxStyledTextCtrl ; the wrapper for Scintilla. When I create the
> frame in wxPython, I use self.Editor.SetFocus() to put the focus initially
> on the editor.
> 
> This works fine.
> 
> Odd thing is though, switching back and forwards between applications
> alternately hides and reappears the caret.
> 
> Hit Alt-Tab twice and it disappears
> Hit Alt-Tab twice and it comes back.
> 
> It still works fine - there's just no caret. I've tried various things in
> EVT_ACTIVATE including Moving the Caret on screen, and forcing it to be
> visible - they are being called but it makes no difference.
> 
> Any ideas ?

I don't know why the problem you are having happens, but I would just
make a call to self.Editor.SetFocus() on an EVT_ACTIVATE event.

 - Josiah



From arkham at gmail.com  Fri Nov 19 17:22:13 2004
From: arkham at gmail.com (Rob Snyder)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:22:13 GMT
Subject: instances v. threads
References: <cnlq48$qf7$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <pmund.18309$Vk6.8463@twister.nyc.rr.com>

Brad Tilley wrote:

> I've just started using classes in Python for some projects at work and
> have a few questions about them. I understand that once a class is
> defined that I can create many instances of it like this:
> 
> class xyz:
>     def one():
>        pass
>     def two ():
>        pass
>     def three():
>        pass
> 
> a = xyz()
> b = xyz()
> c = xyz()
> 
> a.one()
> b.one()
> c.one()
> c.two()
> c.three()
> 
> How does asynchronous/threaded programming differ from OO programming
> and classes? C is not OO and has no classes, but one can write threaded
> programs in C, right? Perhaps I'm totally off on this... can some
> explain how these concepts differ? Exactly how is an 'instance'
> different from a 'thread'?
> 
> Thanks,
> Brad

Heya Brad -

Looks like you're confusing two unrelated things. 

I'm not sure what you know about either thing, so forgive me if I am too
basic in my attempt at explaining.

Take two simple Python statements:

a = "123"
b = "456"

What have I? A variable named a that has the str data "123" in it, and one
named B that has the str data "456" in it. Two variables (or "objects") set
aside in memory, each storing a different value. You'd agree that the
second line that sets the variable "b" does *not* create a new thread, or
unit of execution, right?

Of course not. If this was my whole program, I'd have, effectively, one
thread - the process itself, and two variables. 

Think of "instances" the same exact way. In your example above, the lines

> a = xyz()
> b = xyz()
> c = xyz()

create three new variables, each assigned to a new copy of your class xyz.
When you call a method in xyz, such as a.one(), you are *not* creating a
new thread. The program calls this method just as with any function, and
when the function or method is done, it returns to your mainline code.

In other words, in your code example,

> a.one()
> b.one()
> c.one()
> c.two()
> c.three()

each of these executes *in turn*, not simultaneously. 

Now, suppose your class really looked like this:

class xyz:
        def one(stuff):
                self.data = stuff

and I did

a = xyz()
b = xyz()
c = xyz()

then followed it up with

a.one("Hello, I am instance A!")

What is the value of a.data? "Hello, I am instance A!", of course. And the
value of b.data and c.data? Not yet defined.

In my example, I have three instances of class xyz, and each has it's own
private data. But that's it - each one does *not* create it's own thread;
they do not execute asynchronously. 

If you're used to C programming, imagine classes as being similar to
structs, just with the ability to include functions as well as data. 

Along the same lines, if I wanted to have multiple threads active, I'd have
to create them, using any language that has a threading library (C does,
Python does, Java does, etc.). I can certainly use classes and instances in
my threads, but the two are not the similar concepts.

Make any sense?

Rob


From eddie at kickingdragon.com  Fri Nov 19 10:46:24 2004
From: eddie at kickingdragon.com (Eddie Parker)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 08:46:24 -0700
Subject: Pls Help Me
In-Reply-To: <419DC8F4.8020408@postnewspapers.com.au>
References: <B1FBD4037C9BD811ADD7000476EA648A09A2B1@LOCAL>
	<419DC8F4.8020408@postnewspapers.com.au>
Message-ID: <419E1550.9060409@kickingdragon.com>

The "cannot import MySQLdb" probably means exactly that - you probably 
don't have a module named MySQLdb in your site-packages folder. Perhaps 
worthwhile looking for it under your python install directory.

Craig Ringer wrote:

> Sky Soe wrote:
>
>> Hello Everybody,
>> I've a big problem when I installed MySQLdb1.1.2 on python2.3.4 
>> running on
>> Linux 9.0.
>>
> Just a minor point - there's no such thing as 'Linux 9.0'. I assume 
> you mean Red Hat 9.0?
>
> It would be very helpful if you could specify how you installed Python 
> 2.3.4 and how you installed the MySQLdb module - for example, from 
> source, from RPMs included with the distro, from third-party RPMs (and 
> if so, from where?).
>
>> And there is an error shows that " Cannot Import MySQLdb''.
>> Another problem is that it shows me the fatal error that cannot run 
>> Python
>> interpreter because of "Version Mismatch".
>>
> Cannot _run_ the interpreter, or cannot load the MySQL driver? IIRC 
> the version mismatch error indicates that you have one version of 
> Python trying to load modules compiled for another version, but Python 
> will frequently continue anyway - just without the module you asked for.
>
> -- 
> Craig Ringer
>


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Nov  9 07:45:09 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 07:45:09 -0500
Subject: Stupid Americans! -- Stupid... Stupid... STUPID!!! ___________
 tyjqip
In-Reply-To: <4190B6C7.80300@mplusr.de>
References: <MPG.ed7c87d7033b@NEWS.GRADWELL.NET>	<mailman.6081.1099848768.5135.python-list@python.org>	<418ED1A7.90506@verizon.net>
	<mailman.6137.1099967970.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4190B6C7.80300@mplusr.de>
Message-ID: <4190BBD5.1060309@cloudthunder.com>

Peter Maas wrote:

> Richard Blackwood schrieb:
>
>> No es problemo.  It certainly seems that the respectable individuals 
>> on this forum are making the wise choice of avoiding the message due 
>> to its divergence from discussion of Python, so no need to worry 
>> about flamewars in this respect. I merely felt it necessary however 
>> to inform the author of the inappropriateness of his/her message 
>
>
> That's OK, but it would have even been better not to express consent
> or dissent to the o.p. opinion because this is an incentive for others
> to express their opinions as well. At least I was considering this
> for 2-3 seconds :)

Point well taken.

>
> Mit freundlichen Gruessen,
>
> Peter Maas
>



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Nov  2 12:05:14 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 09:05:14 -0800
Subject: 2d arrays
In-Reply-To: <1099404713.418795a9cb733@www-mail.usyd.edu.au>
References: <1099404713.418795a9cb733@www-mail.usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <20041102090101.F7D8.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Ajay <abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au> wrote:
> 
> hi!
> 
> i am trying to do something as follows:
> i have a set of id's. These are from 4-10.
> I also have a set of users. Users have values for some of these id's
> thus, userA could have userA(4)=7, userA(6)=4 and userB may only have
> userB(7)=3
> 
> what i am trying to do is to make this into a 2d array
> 
> id's/users 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
> userA      7   4
> userB            3
> userC                3  4

If you don't need to examine columns or rows (random read/write access),
use a dictionary:

2d_a = {}
2d_a[('userA', 4)] = 7
2d_a[('userA', 6)] = 4
2d_a[('userB', 7)] = 3


> and so on. Has anyone done this before? if yes, do you mind sharing how.
> the problem is user information is stored in a db and all id's are stored
> in a table.
> so first of all, i get the entire range of id's from a table.
> i then need to go through all user tables and get their corresponding
> values and do this in an efficient way.

If it is SQL, you can do something like this...

SELECT member_name, member_id, member_val FROM member_table WHERE
deleted <> 'f'

etc.


 - Josiah



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 18:29:27 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:29:27 GMT
Subject: PyArg_ParseKeywords?
Message-ID: <rn7rd.591672$mD.444243@attbi_s02>

Is there a PyArg_ParseKeywords along the lines of 
PyArg_ParseTupleAndKeywords?  I want to parse only the keywords, 
ignoring the arguments.  Currently I do this with something like:

const char *format = "O:min";
static char *kwlist[] = {"key", 0};
PyObject *empty_args = Py_BuildValue("()");
if (!PyArg_ParseTupleAndKeywords(empty_args, kwds, (char *)format,
	kwlist, &keyfunc)) {
	return NULL;
}
Py_DECREF(empty_args);

but I'm hoping there's a way around creating an empty argument tuple.  I 
assume I could just use PyDict_GetItemString on the kwds directly, but 
I'd rather not have to duplicate all the error checking in vgetargskeywords.

(If you're wondering why I would want such a thing, the application is 
adding a 'key' keyword argument to min/max, and it can't be considered 
as a positional parameter or the max(a, b, c, key=func) form will treat 
func as another item to be compared.)

Steve


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Nov  1 07:09:00 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 07:09:00 -0500
Subject: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails ...
	python on ?)
In-Reply-To: <4185AB35.6050103@cloudthunder.com>
Message-ID: <20041101120902.30033.qmail@engcorp.com>

Richard Blackwood [mailto:richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com]:
> >
> > To the OP: there are several Python "application frameworks"
> > which on the surface appear to be similar in goal to Rails.
> > I don't know much about them, and at the moment even their names 
> > aren't coming to me, so I can't help more than that.
> > I think a search for "enterprise application framework Python"
> > would probably turn up at least one of them.
> 
> Do you mean Zope?

Most definitely not!  Zope is a "content management system".
At best I might call it an "Enterprise intranet framework",
though that's the first time I've heard it called such.

-Peter



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov  3 16:47:24 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 21:47:24 GMT
Subject: Fixed: pyMinGW patched Python compiles in MinGW & passes
	regrtests
References: <8ad8ad0a.0409200909.545f257@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41894041.1537970003@news.oz.net>

On 20 Sep 2004 10:09:48 -0700, abkhd at earth.co.jp (A. B., Khalid) wrote:

>Hello all.
>
>This is to inform those interested in getting Python to compile in
>MinGW that the pyMinGW patch is now able to help compile both Python
>2.3.4 Final and Python 2.4a3 and the resulting MinGW Python passes the
>regrtests as follows.
>
>
>#-----------------------------------------
># Python 2.3.4 Final:
>#-----------------------------------------
>$ python -i
>Python 2.3.4 (#53, Sep 19 2004, 03:47:39) 
>[GCC 3.2 (mingw special 20020817-1)] on win32
>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import sys
>>>> sys.winver
>'2.3'
>>>> raise SystemExit
>
>
>
>#-----------------------------------------
># Python 2.3.4 Final: regrtests
>#-----------------------------------------
>$ python -i ../Lib/test/regrtest.py -unetwork
>[CUT]
>215 tests OK.
>40 tests skipped:
>    test_aepack test_al test_bsddb185 test_bsddb3 test_cd test_cl
>    test_commands test_crypt test_curses test_dbm test_dl
>    test_email_codecs test_fcntl test_fork1 test_gdbm test_gl test_grp
>    test_imgfile test_ioctl test_largefile test_linuxaudiodev
>    test_macfs test_macostools test_mhlib test_mpz test_nis
>    test_normalization test_openpty test_ossaudiodev test_pep277
>    test_plistlib test_poll test_posix test_pty test_pwd test_resource
>    test_scriptpackages test_signal test_sunaudiodev test_timing
>Those skips are all expected on win32.
>D:\PYTHON23\lib\test\test_format.py:19: FutureWarning: %u/%o/%x/%X of
>negative int will return a signed string in Python 2.4 and up
>  result = formatstr % args
>
>
>
>#-----------------------------------------
># Python 2.4a3:
>#-----------------------------------------
>$ python -i
>Python 2.4a3 (#56, Sep 19 2004, 04:37:06) 
>[GCC 3.2 (mingw special 20020817-1)] on win32
>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import sys
>>>> sys.winver
>'2.4'
>>>> raise SystemExit
>
>
>
>#-----------------------------------------
># Python 2.4a3: regrtests
>#-----------------------------------------
>$ python -i ../lib/test/regrtest.py -unetwork
>[CUT]
>242 tests OK.
>46 tests skipped:
>    test__locale test_aepack test_al test_applesingle test_bsddb185
>    test_bsddb3 test_cd test_cl test_codecmaps_cn test_codecmaps_hk
>    test_codecmaps_jp test_codecmaps_kr test_codecmaps_tw
>    test_commands test_crypt test_curses test_dbm test_dl test_fcntl
>    test_fork1 test_gdbm test_gl test_grp test_imgfile test_ioctl
>    test_largefile test_linuxaudiodev test_macfs test_macostools
>    test_mhlib test_nis test_normalization test_openpty
>    test_ossaudiodev test_pep277 test_plistlib test_poll test_posix
>    test_pty test_pwd test_resource test_scriptpackages test_signal
>    test_sunaudiodev test_threadsignals test_timing
>Those skips are all expected on win32.
>No handlers could be found for logger "cookielib"
>
>
>
>Get pyMinGW from here:
>http://jove.prohosting.com/iwave/ipython/pyMinGW.html
>
>
Great work ;-) Minor glitch: In order to get a successful linking for python.exe
on NT4 I had to add ../PC/_subprocess .c and .o into pythoncore.mak
into the contexts where ../PC/config .c and .o appear, but otherwise
is seems to have succeeded. python.exe runs in a windows "DOS box"
much like my 2.3.2, and also runs under the msys shell, though the
latter requires that I type raise SystemExit to exit from the
interactive session.

I just ran it from the MinGW directory, so I haven't got it finally arranged,
but it looks good so far. 

Your efforts are much appreciated.

My msys/MinGW is not the latest, so I don't know how much problem that causes:
[13:28] ~>uname -s -r -v
MINGW32_NT-4.0 1.0.9(0.46/3/2) 2003-07-03 07:26

I think what would be great would be a python migration script that would
be available via python.org along with all necessary md5's and signatures
for stuff on other sites that might be downloaded.

It could check what msys & MinGW was installed, and if none, provide the option for
an automatic download (using urllib etc), md5 check against info on python.org,
some tests, then downloading of the latest python tgz and pyMinGW and decompressing
them into destination directories prompted for at the beginning (so you can leave it chug),
and then building python under msys.

It should of course create a log, and be resumable to continue after fixing glitches.

Having such a script would let windows users have a unix interface to python an other
tools, which makes it easier when encountering linux or bsd or mac os under the hood.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Nov  5 03:32:21 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 00:32:21 -0800
Subject: bit operations with python?
In-Reply-To: <418b263f$1@post.ulj.menatepspb.com>
References: <36680182.0411041847.397f48fe@posting.google.com>
	<418b263f$1@post.ulj.menatepspb.com>
Message-ID: <20041105003109.F830.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


"Alexander Semenov" <sav at ulj.menatepspb.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>  J> Take part2.dat and XOR(the ^ operator) each byte of it with its own
>  J> value and put the result into a new file called part3.dat.
>  J> # Finally take part3.dat and add (+) every byte together, append
>  J> _solution to the resulting number, and enter it in the box below."
> 
> I think, it's a joke. Result will be 0, python not needed.

If you go to the site, you discover the point is to work out the
implications of binary operations on values, and the value of reading
directions.


 - Josiah



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Tue Nov 16 09:35:04 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 14:35:04 GMT
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
References: <mailman.6380.1100532166.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpjdjo.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<4199F49B.5020005@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <slrncpk3vh.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-11-16, Steve Holden schreef <steve at holdenweb.com>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
>> Op 2004-11-15, Jp Calderone schreef <exarkun at divmod.com>:
>> 
>>>On 15 Nov 2004 11:44:31 GMT, Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Op 2004-11-15, Peter Hansen schreef <peter at engcorp.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>AFAIU the Queue module doesn't block on a full/empty queue when
>>>>>>a timeout is specified but goes in a loop sleeping and periodically
>>>>>>checking whether place/items are available. With signals that
>>>>>>can be sent to a thread the queue could just set an alarm and
>>>>>>then block as if no timeout value was set and either unblock
>>>>>>when place/items are available or get signalled when the timeout
>>>>>>period is over.
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm fairly sure that the Queue uses an internal Event
>>>>>(or REvent?) to signal when space or a new item is
>>>>>available, so I believe your description (and possibly
>>>>>conclusion) above is wrong.  There should be no
>>>>>"periodical check", as that would imply polling.  Check
>>>>>the source if you're interested.
>>>>
>>>>I did check the source, I just didn't study it carefully
>>>>and got my understanding mostly from the comments.
>>>>But anyway here is the relevant part and IMO we have
>>>>a polling loop here.
>>>>
>>>
>>>  You are correct, but why does it matter?  The Queue class works.
>> 
>> 
>> Does it?
>> 
>> I'm not so sure. If two consumers ask simultaneously for an element
>> from the same empty queue. One consumer simply blocking and the
>> other using a timeout, I think that if an element is produced within
>> the timeout period the chance for the element going to either consumer
>> should be equal. I doubr very much we have that in the current
>> situation.
>> 
> Well, everybody can *think* what they like, I suppose. It certainly 
> works for some value of "work".

And what values of "work" are those? Synchronisation primitives
should have certain characteristics. The way Queues are implemented
leist me doubt those characteristics are met. I can of course be
wrong, but suggesting those characteristics are not important
doesn't solve anything.

>>>Why should Python be changed in a difficult and complex way to...
>> 
>> 
>> It doesn't change python, it changes an implementation. Sometimes
>> difficult and complex implementation do a better job than easier
>> implementations. That we already have an implementation that works
>> is therefore not a strong argument against an other implementation.
>> 
> It is if there's nobody to provide the new implementation.

No it is not. If it would be a strong argument againt a new
implementation, we wouldn't accept a new implementation even
if someone would provide one.

I have been thinking about a new implementation, it will probably
have its own problems, however I was willing to give it a try.
Are you telling me now that I shouldn't bother because we already
have a working implementation and so we shouldn't change it?

>>>make the Queue class continue to work?  If you can give other examples
>>>of the uses you have in mind, that might help convince people of the
>>>value of this change.  But be sure you give examples of things that don't already work.
>> 
>> 
>> Well how about the following code, it works in the main thread, but
>> doesn't in a normal thread according to the documentation:
>> 
>>   class SystemAlarm(Exception):
>>     pass
>> 
>> 
>>   def ringalarm(signum, frame):
>> 
>>     raise SystemAlarm
>> 
>> 
>>   signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, ringalarm)
>> 
>> 
>>   def lock(fl):
>> 
>>     ''' lock a file. If the parameter is a string, first
>> 	open it. If the lock couldn't be aquired in five
>> 	minutes, raise an exception.
>>     '''
>> 
>>     if isinstance(fl, type('')):
>>       fd = os.open(fl, os.O_RDWR | os.O_CREAT , 0700)
>>       fl = os.fdopen(fd, 'r+')
>>     signal.alarm(300)
>>     try:
>>       fcntl.flock(fl, fcntl.LOCK_EX)
>>       signal.alarm(0)
>>     except SystemAlarm:
>>       raise IOError("Couldn't aquire lock;")
>>     except:
>>       signal.alarm(0)
>>       raise
>> 
> And the moral of this story is "open source can be a pain in the neck"?

What is your problem? Someone asked me an example and I gave it.
What open source has to do with this is beyond me because closed
source can be just as much a pain in the neck and I don't in
general consider python a pain in the neck. It sometimes just
has limitations I bump into.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  2 13:31:42 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:31:42 -0500
Subject: general class functions
In-Reply-To: <a76ba315.0411021009.46b06459@posting.google.com>
References: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>
	<kj9eo0hkjem9pbj3pvdbpea6gpl06ighsj@4ax.com>
	<a76ba315.0411021009.46b06459@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4187d1b6$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>

syd wrote:
> Many many thanks, Andrea and Kent!
> 
> To keep changes to calls in my current code to a minimum, I'm hoping I
> can encode Andrea's "on-the-fly" get function.  I added Andrea's
> __getattr__ to my Library() class, populated the class with a few
> nations, and tried:
> 
> 
>>>>library.get_continent('Europe')
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "foo.py", line 16, in __getattr__
>     return self.__dict__[name]
> KeyError: '__repr__'

Instead of
   return self.__dict__[name]
you need
   raise AttributeError, name

self.__dict__ has already been tried before __getattr__ is called, you 
don't need to try it again.

Kent


From 1cdq3arii001 at sneakemail.com  Fri Nov 12 09:44:41 2004
From: 1cdq3arii001 at sneakemail.com (Tomas)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:44:41 +0100
Subject: Iterating over PDF documents
References: <cmv9j2$et5$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <cn2i90$51j$1@news.uit.no>

"Peter Maas" <peter at somewhere.com> wrote in message 
news:cmv9j2$et5$1 at swifty.westend.com...
> I'm trying to edit a PDF document line-wise. This is more difficult
> than I thought, because PDF uses a mixture of all line terminators
> available in *X, Mac and Win so that utilizing "for line in file"
> is difficult.

If you're just going to extract some text or do searching, you can try the 
pdftotext utility and convert the document(s) to plain text. 
http://www.snapfiles.com/get/pdftotext.html (Windows).

-Tomas 




From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Sun Nov 21 21:40:37 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 02:40:37 GMT
Subject: Small Database Needed
References: <mailman.6669.1101048884.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <30d1t4F2to6quU1@uni-berlin.de>

Kevin McBrearty <kmcbrearty at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> I'm looking at implementing DB in my program for analysis of CAD (STL
> Files).  This database will require the basic functionality.
> 
> Query
> Sort
> Delete/Add Records
> 
> I did some looking at the DB packages out there. But, I'm not
> interseted in setuping up some huge thing.  It would be great if it is
> fast, but I can live with a sub-optimal solution for the present.  My
> interest is in getting it up and running.  
> 
> Since, I'm new to Python so please don't hold back on the comments.

In the order preference, 
    - ASCII text file
    - GDBM (but, you can't sort)
    - SQLite
all of which are supported by Bash shell and Python.

-- 
William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 


From niels_bohr at uol.com.br  Sun Nov  7 00:58:36 2004
From: niels_bohr at uol.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio?= Mendes)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 03:58:36 -0200
Subject: PEP new assert idiom
In-Reply-To: <nYgjd.1129$6I1.1124@trndny05>
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmurvv.1meude125h1zrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6027.1099792216.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<nYgjd.1129$6I1.1124@trndny05>
Message-ID: <1099807116.11311.114.camel@localhost.localdomain>

> The alternative has the advantage that a failure will point to the exact
> expression that failed.  The disadvantage is the repetition of the error
> message; however, I disagree that your use case is common.  Instead, it is
> likely more advantageous to have different error messages for each expression.
> For example, the following comes from the post condition checks in QR matrix
> decomposition:
> 
> assert Q.tr().mmul(Q)==eye(min(m,n)), "Q is not orthonormal"
> assert isinstance(R,UpperTri), "R is not upper triangular"
> assert R.size==(m,n), "R is does not match the original dimensions"
> assert Q.mmul(R)==self, "Q*R does not reproduce the original matrix"
> 
> One could link all of these by an "and" or the proposed comma, but then you
> end-up with a single, less informative error message, "The QR decomposition
> bombed, but I won't tell you why ;-) ".
> 
You have a good point here. Maybe what I proposed is only a distraction.
We don't want a syntax tailored to every sittuation as it will serve
only for showcase selected programs that express the full elegance of
the language, but to the programmer, it gains the burden of memorizing
the 100 and so operators that makes the language very expressive. Of
course each person will develop a personal dialect, which will make his
code very expressive in a specific domain, but he'll talk to
nobodyelse... For that we have perl. So I guess i'm off this thread, but
someone pointed a PEP for a 'validate' statement which still holds. At
least it will help to elucidate the somewhat confusing meaning of the
assert statement. (you shouldn't use it at runtime?? which level of
optimizations disable it?). 

Fabio


From stuffduff at cox.net  Sun Nov 14 16:29:19 2004
From: stuffduff at cox.net (Sean)
Date: 14 Nov 2004 13:29:19 -0800
Subject: Python on Smartphone 2003?
Message-ID: <3222fe00.0411141329.4babbadd@posting.google.com>

Hi,

Trying to compile the PythonCE (Validus Medical Systems Python 2.3.4)
using eVC++ 4.0 and the Smartphone2003 SDK.  Linking is generating 28
errors.  I dug into the first one (PyErr_Fetch) and it's in pyerrors.h
so I don't see why it misses it.

Anyone have an idea?

TIA

Sean

Deleting intermediate files and output files for project 'python -
Win32 (WCE ARMV4) Release'.
--------------------Configuration: python - Win32 (WCE ARMV4)
Release--------------------
Compiling resources...
Compiling...
python.c
tracebackdialog.c
Linking...
python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
__imp_PyErr_Fetch referenced in function WinMain
python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol Py_fclose
referenced in function WinMain
python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
__imp_PyRun_SimpleFile referenced in function WinMain
python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
__imp_PyErr_SetString referenced in function WinMain
python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
__imp_PyExc_ValueError referenced in function WinMain
python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol Py_fopen
referenced in function WinMain
python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
__imp_PyObject_CallObject referenced in function WinMain
tracebackdialog.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
__imp_PyObject_CallObject
python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
__imp_PyObject_GetAttrString referenced in function WinMain
tracebackdialog.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
__imp_PyObject_GetAttrString
python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
__imp_PyImport_ImportModule referenced in function WinMain
tracebackdialog.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
__imp_PyImport_ImportModule referenced in function
PyTraceback_AsString
python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
__imp_PySys_SetArgv referenced in function WinMain
python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
__imp_PySys_SetObject referenced in function WinMain
python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
__imp_PyInt_FromLong referenced in function WinMain
python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
__imp_Py_Initialize referenced in function WinMain
python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
__imp_Py_SetProgramName referenced in function WinMain
python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
__imp_Py_InteractiveFlag referenced in function WinMain
tracebackdialog.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
__imp_PyString_AsString referenced in function PyTraceback_AsString
tracebackdialog.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
__imp_PyMem_Malloc referenced in function PyTraceback_AsString
tracebackdialog.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
__imp_PyType_IsSubtype referenced in function PyTraceback_AsString
tracebackdialog.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
__imp_PyString_Type referenced in function PyTraceback_AsString
tracebackdialog.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
__imp_Py_BuildValue referenced in function PyTraceback_AsString
tracebackdialog.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
__imp__Py_NoneStruct referenced in function PyTraceback_AsString
tracebackdialog.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
__imp_PyMem_Free referenced in function DialogProc
tracebackdialog.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
__imp_PyObject_Str referenced in function DialogProc
tracebackdialog.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
SHInitDialog referenced in function FixupWindowSizeForWinCE
ARMV4Rel/python.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 24 unresolved externals
Error executing link.exe.
Creating browse info file...

python.exe - 28 error(s), 0 warning(s)


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 14:52:42 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 19:52:42 GMT
Subject: returning unordered keyword arguments from a function (WAS: Are
 multiple return values really harmful?)
In-Reply-To: <8ef9bea6.0411180831.e44ae56@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.6511.1100727971.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8ef9bea6.0411180831.e44ae56@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <e47nd.630528$8_6.343583@attbi_s04>

Hung Jung Lu wrote:
> def today(p):
>     print p.message
>     r = Generic()
>     r.year, r.month, r.day = 2004, 11, 18
>     return r
> 
[snip]
> 
> I suspect a large number of people use this approach. Generic objects
> are also good for pickling/serialization. (By the way, why is the new
> style class "object()" made so that no dynamic attributes can be
> assigned to it?

My understanding is that this is for efficiency reasons...  I remember 
some older discussions, but they're kinda hard to google since 'object' 
isn't a very good query term...  Personally, I don't really care about 
being able to assign attributes dynamically to an object() instance, but 
I would like to be able to do something like:

 >>> r = object(year=2004, month=11, day=18)
 >>> r.day, r.month, r.year
(18, 11, 2004)

where object's __init__ takes keyword arguments to designate attributes. 
  This would let you use object basically as a record.  If I remember 
right though, the problem with this is that it introduces overhead for 
all classes that inherit from object.  (I kinda thought it had something 
to do with defining __slots__, but I'll wait for someone with more 
knowledge in this area to fill in the details...)


> def f():
>     if not hasattr(f,'x'):
>        f.x = 1
>     else:
>        f.x += 1
>     f.y, f.z = 2*f.x, 3*f.x
> 
> f()
> print f.x, f.y, f.z
> f()
> print f.x, f.y, f.z
> 
> Of course, this approach has more limited applicability. (Not good for
> multithreaded case, not good for renaming the function object or
> passing it around.)

Just to clarify for anyone who wasn't following closely, this is "not 
good for renaming the function object" in cases like:

 >>> def f():
...     if not hasattr(f,'x'):
...         f.x = 1
...     else:
...         f.x += 1
...     f.y, f.z = 2*f.x, 3*f.x
...
 >>> g = f
 >>> f = 2
 >>> g()
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
   File "<interactive input>", line 3, in f
AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'x'

This is a little contrived here, but the point is that relying *inside* 
a function on the name that the function is def'd with is probably not a 
good idea.

Steve


From jelle.feringa at ezct.net  Mon Nov  8 18:20:04 2004
From: jelle.feringa at ezct.net (Jelle Feringa // EZCT / Paris)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 00:20:04 +0100
Subject: newbie question | shell scripting
Message-ID: <20041108231946.035B818000F5@mwinf1003.wanadoo.fr>

Dear all,
 
I did it! Finally pieced my first half decent python script together!
After some extensive research into which language I should learn to program
and which would most likely meet my needs (being an architect not a
programmer) I'm finally experiencing some of the awesome power of python
first hand.
 
Having said that I'm still facing a few minor problems that I don't seem to
get over myself:
Basically my script is a conversion from a shell script that renders
Radiance images.
The problem that occurs is that the main loop of the script is executed
before the render is actually finished.
The result is that the script is executed until my machine's cpu is
saturated (2 proces pipes)
Too bad I'm not yet familiar enough with python to resolve this problem.
Basically the script works, it just bugs me that it isn't executed properly.
 
Another thing is that I want to build in 2 additions to this script
 
First of all being able to run the processes in the background
Secondly a way to cancel the process from Python.
 
Another thins is that this script relies on piping to get the job done. So
basically still very close to a bash shell script approach.
What would be a more pythonic way of doing this? I've considered tmp files,
but this seems to be a more clean solution.
 
Here's the main loop of the script:
 
i = 0
for x in hour:
    skyName = skiesok[i]
    print skyName
    number = str(skyName[3:-4])
    oconv, oo, oe = win32pipe.popen3('oconv -i no_sky.oct'\
    +' sky'+number+'.sky'+' > '+'tmpOct'+number+'.oct')
    psign, po, pe = win32pipe.popen3('psign -h 16 '\
    +str(day)+' /'+str(month)+' / '+number+':00'+' > label'+number+'.pic')
    rpict, ro, re = win32pipe.popen3('rpict -vf view.vf '+ambparr+'
'+'tmpOct'+number+'.oct'\
    +' | '+'pfilt -x /2 -y /2'\
    +' | '+'pcompos - 0 0 label'+number+'.pic 0 0'\
    +' > '+'tmp'+number+'.pic') 
    i = i +1
    
Thanks for your ideas in advance,
 
Cheers,
 
Jelle.
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From chrispatton at gmail.com  Fri Nov 12 19:29:53 2004
From: chrispatton at gmail.com (Chris Patton)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 16:29:53 -0800
Subject: a very newbie question about threading
Message-ID: <9c3edc58.0411121629.45652543@posting.google.com>

Hey Everyone. 

I've recenently stumbled upon a concept known as "threading". Can
anyone tell me what this IS and how it is used, or show me where I can
get information about this?

Thanks!


From peter at somewhere.com  Tue Nov 23 07:55:53 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 13:55:53 +0100
Subject: if need small python executable
In-Reply-To: <41a24ea1$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <77969915.0411221152.6f293b6f@posting.google.com>
	<41a24ea1$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <cnvcc7$49q$1@swifty.westend.com>

Irmen de Jong schrieb:
> Nickolay wrote:
> 
>> it's easy to create small executable from python code, when using
>> assembler compilers. I ask you if need it?
> 
> 
> What's an assembler compiler?
> I also don't understand your actual question.

Are there programs available (Python assemblers) which convert a
10 kb Python script into a 5 kb binary executable?

Answer: No. But you can use py2exe (Windows), McMillan installer
(Unix) or py2app (Mac) to create a not so small (>= 2 MB) executable
containing python bytecode and the python executable.

:)

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Nov 23 08:22:48 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:22:48 -0500
Subject: Identifying exceptions that can be raised
In-Reply-To: <cnu3i1$ne9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
References: <cVdnd.7986$tS4.4873@trndny09>
	<mailman.6579.1100837821.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<6Rknd.6671$%M4.4203@trndny08>
	<cnmcek$rju$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<545cb8c2.0411221645.442bb88a@posting.google.com>
	<cnu3i1$ne9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <41A339A8.90908@holdenweb.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Jim Hefferon wrote:
> 
>> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote ..
>>
>>> The usual approach is to have a caller catch exceptions
>>> *which it is capable of dealing with appropriately*, and
>>> ignore others.  In some cases it's necessary to have a
>>> "generic" exception handler, such as at the top level of
>>> a thread, to catch and log all exceptions, but that's
>>> relatively rare.
>>
>>
>> I wonder if perhaps you don't write different kinds of programs than I
>> do.
> 
> 
> I certainly do.  I don't, for example, ever do CGI...
> 
>> For instance, I have a cgi program.  One routine will get an id from a
>> httpd parameter, use it to reach into a database and fetch some xml,
>> and then pull information out of the xml for display.  That I can
>> tell, there are about 100 exceptions that could be raised ...
> 
> 
> ....but were I faced with this situation, I would follow my
> above advice about "in some cases it's necessary...".  This
> is exactly such a situation.  I would always wrap such a
> program** at the top level with a generic exception handler
> and a call to traceback.format_exception() (or whatever it's
> called), turning any errors into visible results, or at
> the very least logging them somewhere for analysis.
> 
Such as is provided by the line

import cgitb; cgitb.enable()

for example.

> ** I don't think of CGI calls as independent _programs_, mind
> you, any more than I think of individual threads as programs,
> but I'm not sure this is affecting my opinion here vis-a-vis
> exception handling.
> 
> -Peter

I think some people just deal with uncertainty better than others. Java 
is indeed a slog, and being forced to write exception handlers for 
errors I never expect to occur and was quite happy to see my program 
fail under was one of the least attractive things about it.

no-more-java-for-me-ly y'rs  - steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From abkhd at earth.co.jp  Mon Nov 22 01:44:57 2004
From: abkhd at earth.co.jp (A. B., Khalid)
Date: 21 Nov 2004 22:44:57 -0800
Subject: Fixed: pyMinGW patched Python compiles in MinGW & passes
	regrtests
References: <8ad8ad0a.0409200909.545f257@posting.google.com>
	<41894041.1537970003@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <8ad8ad0a.0411212244.248159fb@posting.google.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message 
> Great work ;-) Minor glitch: In order to get a successful linking for python.exe
> on NT4 I had to add ../PC/_subprocess .c and .o into pythoncore.mak
> into the contexts where ../PC/config .c and .o appear, but otherwise
> is seems to have succeeded. python.exe runs in a windows "DOS box"
> much like my 2.3.2, and also runs under the msys shell, though the
> latter requires that I type raise SystemExit to exit from the
> interactive session.


Hello Bengt,

The subprocess module was added only in the beta release of Python
2.4. The pyMinGW version you had access to only patched the alpha 3
release of Python 2.4. I did update my local copy to include the new
module, and was going to update the publically available pyMinGW in
good time. It is good to read that you did manage to do it though. I
feel I should warn you, however, that by patching (in our case
replacing) a newer version with an old version of a Python source file
that you might be overwritting important updates and bugfixes that may
have been made to the source. At any rate, I think the latest pyMinGW
update is ready and I may post it today, and that would include, God
willing, support for Python 2.4rc1.

Also, the MSYS behavior of your system seems identical to mine, so I
wouldn't worry about that.


Regards
Khalid


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Nov  7 18:13:12 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 18:13:12 -0500
Subject: SystemError: com_backpatch: offset too large
In-Reply-To: <781f5e76.0411042211.3feb1365@posting.google.com>
References: <781f5e76.0411032335.57bf5ae4@posting.google.com>
	<lupid.5272$931.5140@lakeread01>
	<781f5e76.0411042211.3feb1365@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <P3yjd.13257$931.9215@lakeread01>

alban.minassian at wanadoo.fr wrote:

>>It might help if we had some idea what the code looked like around line 
>>5139, and if we knew the size of the data concerned, for example.
> 
> 
> Line 5138 : var += "AAA"+"XXXXXX"+"BBB"  # <----- OK 
> Line 5139 : var += "AAA"+"XXXXXX"+"BBB" # <---- !!! --->
> com_backpatch: offset too large
> 
> If i replace, line 5139, by 'print 'hello python' : --->
> com_backpatch: offset too large
> 
> len(var)--> 583
> 
> 
> Alban

Sounds like your module is simply too big. Could you split it up into 
several modules instead, calling each in turn?

regards
  STeve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From danperl at rogers.com  Mon Nov 15 14:07:13 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 14:07:13 -0500
Subject: save a dictionary in a file
References: <2vsa8hF2oa58tU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <TK-dnUm_IrP-YwXcRVn-sw@rogers.com>

Maybe I am missing something, but why don't you just pickle the dictionary 
itself and instead you transform it into a list and pickle the list?  I 
don't know of any restrictions in pickling a dictionary and I do that in 
some of my code.  I actually pickle a structure of nested dictionaries (ie, 
values in the top dictionary are dictionaries themselves, some of their 
values are dictionaries, and so on).

Dan

"Luis P. Mendes" <luisXX_lupe2XX at netvisaoXX.pt> wrote in message 
news:2vsa8hF2oa58tU1 at uni-berlin.de...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi,
>
> my program builds a dictionary that I would like to save in a file.
>
> My question is what are the simple ways to do it?
>
> The first solution I've thought of is to transform the dictionary in a
> list, with the key being the first element on that list, and the value
> as the second.  Then I could use pickle to do the write and read
> operations.  It seems simple and easy.
>
> Is there a more commonly used form to do it, yet in a simple way?
>
> Luis
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFBmPRdHn4UHCY8rB8RApRjAKCF4/pEMbQQ10Quf5CZO/nTL2CpHgCfVWZF
> G36HuPUbLXC1qtB+DP8BhK0=
> =f+vS
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- 




From deepak.sarda at gmail.com  Sat Nov  6 21:21:15 2004
From: deepak.sarda at gmail.com (Deepak Sarda)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 10:21:15 +0800
Subject: checking a thread has started
In-Reply-To: <eaac783a04110618073e1e4498@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6001.1099749512.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<qliv52-mlq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<eaac783a04110618073e1e4498@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <eaac783a0411061821201d8ee4@mail.gmail.com>

> Deepak Sarda wrote:
> > I believe this bottleneck is due to Apache server - it just can't
> > spawn so many threads so quickly. It just spawns seven threads and
> > that's it.
>
> Something else to watch out for which bites occassionally is that
> there is an import lock, and only one thread at a time can hold it.
> If a thread in Apache is importing your code, then any of your threads
> that try to do an import will just block.  Your main thread will never
> finish and the Apache framework will never finish importing you,
> so the lock is never released.
>

I am sorry but I didn't understand anything you just said :-)  I'll
just explain my code organization..

main.py: at the top - import os, sys, cgi; from core.py import *;
core.py: at the top - import os, sys, threading, time, ...
There are no other import statements anywhere else.

the worker class is defined in core.py and the function which creates
the new threads is is also in core.py.

So with this arrangement, would I be running into import lock
problems?  Why wouldn't this problem arise when run directly and not
through apache?

Deepak

--

Online: http://www.antrix.net/journal/


From Python at IvoNet.nl  Thu Nov 11 14:35:27 2004
From: Python at IvoNet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:35:27 +0100
Subject: mod_python not working (showing source code)
References: <1100137677.4bQNs8XNANf1D1RB/G9RbQ@teranews>
Message-ID: <mpd7p0dj337bqv32dqskk8928vebcvkpu8@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:32:21 -0600, "Anthony Papillion II"
<papillion at gmail.com> wrote:

>Hello Everyone,
>
>I have downloaded and installed mod_python and it doesn't seem to be
>working. I am hoping someone can give me some pointers as to what I am doing
>wrong. Here are the steps I've followed so far:
>
>1. Installed mod_python from the rpm file.
>2. Added LoadModule and AddModule directives to the httpd.conf file
>
>Now, I have a file called mod_test.py that contains the following code:
>
>#!/usr/bin/python
>
>print "Test of mod_python"
>
>When I call the file up in the browser, I simply see the python source. What
>am I doing wrong?
>
>Thanks!
>Anthony
>

in httpd.conf put someting like:

LoadModule python_module modules/mod_python.so

and in .htaccess:

SetHandler mod_python
AddHandler python-program .py
PythonHandler mod_python.publisher
#PythonHandler mptest         
PythonDebug On               

#PythonDebug On






From littlejohn.75 at noos.fr  Mon Nov 22 08:17:15 2004
From: littlejohn.75 at noos.fr (F. Petitjean)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 13:17:15 GMT
Subject: Trouble with psyco
References: <mailman.6692.1101125167.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41a1e6db$0$29887$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 02:07:46 -0800, Dick Moores <rdm at rcblue.com> wrote:
> psyco is acting a bit psycho for me.
> 
> Please see my spinForWeb.py at <http://www.rcblue.com/Python/spinForWeb.py>
> 
> When psyco is in use, entering an integer somewhere between 2000 and 2500 
> causes my computer to freeze. Not really freeze but the program doesn't 
> finish, and I have to quit with a ^Q.
> 
> psyco is really impressive, but I'm disappointed that I can't demonstrate 
> (to friends) counting with it to numbers above 2 billion.
> 
> If I remark out the "psyco.bind(spin)" line, there's no problem no matter 
> what integer I enter. Can someone explain what the problem with psyco is?

It seems like a problem with your python code. If you enter 2200 :
 max = raw_input("positive integer: ")  # "2200"
 millions = int(max) # to use for printing result  # 2200
 max = int(max) * 1000000  # not possible on a 32bits platform 
 # as it is greater than sys.maxint
 So please write : max = int(max) * 1000000L
 and choose another name (vmax for instance) which doesn't hide a
 builtin.  And likewise initialize k as  k = 0L
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dick Moores
> rdm at rcblue.com
> 
> 
> 


From donald.welch at hp.com  Fri Nov 19 15:10:39 2004
From: donald.welch at hp.com (djw)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:10:39 -0800
Subject: mkstemp on pre-2.3 Python
References: <419d15b2@usenet01.boi.hp.com>
	<slrncps0o6.7bs.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <419e55da@usenet01.boi.hp.com>

Thank you very much, that was the ticket!

-Don


Nick Craig-Wood wrote:

> djw <donald.welch at hp.com> wrote:
>>  Hi, c.l.p'ers-
>> 
>>  I working on some code that creates a temporary file on Linux. I found
>>  some code that the BDFL posted previously on the newsgroup and adapted
>>  it for my use. I can't get the "pre-2.3" code to work.
>> 
>> 
>>  try:
>>      make_temp_file = tempfile.mkstemp # 2.3+
>>  except AttributeError:
>>      def make_temp_file( suffix='', prefix='', dir='', text=False ):
>>      #pre-2.3
>>          path = tempfile.mktemp( suffix )
>>          fd = os.open( path, os.O_WRONLY|os.O_CREAT|os.O_EXCL, 0700 )
>>          os.unlink( path )
>>          return ( os.fdopen( fd, 'w+b' ), path )
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  Here's the error:
>> 
>>  File "utils.py", line 583, in make_temp_file
>>      return ( os.fdopen( fd, 'w+b' ), path )
>>  OSError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument
>> 
>>  Anybody have any ideas on what I am doing wrong?
> 
> Replace the os.O_WRONLY with os.O_RDWR and all will be fine
> 
>>>> import tempfile, os
>>>> suffix=""
>>>> path = tempfile.mktemp( suffix )
>>>> fd = os.open( path, os.O_RDWR|os.O_CREAT|os.O_EXCL, 0700 )
>>>> f = os.fdopen( fd, 'w+b' )
>>>> f
> <open file '<fdopen>', mode 'w+b' at 0xb7de7a60>
>>>> print >>f, "Hello"
>>>> f.seek(0)
>>>> f.read()
> 'Hello\n'
>>>> f.close()
> 



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Nov  8 12:12:59 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 11:12:59 -0600
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <jrr262-3jl.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<418C7DCB.60502@acm.org>	<mailman.5997.1099739459.5135.python-list@python.org>	<62kv52-npq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>	<1gmun13.6rynz217b0hm1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<4ab062-2rs.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>	<1gmvh6o.jbx87e1ruu14fN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<jrr262-3jl.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <418FA91B.1080904@colorstudy.com>

Roger Binns wrote:
> We are talking about different things.  Once you have written
> some nice big Java "Enterprise" app, you'll see the difference.
> I am not talking about the type system.  It is more about how
> Java applications are constructed.  There are multiple JAR files,
> many many properties files and the end user/adminstrator can
> change what happens and plumb them together by changing the
> properties files.
> 
> You could do *exactly* the same thing in Python, but people don't.
> That doesn't make either language right or wrong, just that the
> emphasis and what is considered "normal" is different.

FWIW, this is something they are doing in Zope 3.  ZCML (an XML markup) 
is used to define the relationship of various components, in a role that 
is probably similar to Java properties, jars, etc.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From changli_to at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 25 12:13:15 2004
From: changli_to at hotmail.com (Chang LI)
Date: 25 Nov 2004 09:13:15 -0800
Subject: Use Python library from C++
References: <89cc6e1f.0411241939.61a19596@posting.google.com>
	<41a5b79a$0$17605$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <89cc6e1f.0411250913.67a37f4a@posting.google.com>

Pierre Barbier de Reuille <pierre.barbier at cirad.fr> wrote in message news:<41a5b79a$0$17605$636a15ce at news.free.fr>...
> 
> If you just want to access the Python API (or some APIs of modules) you 
> need to launch the interpreter (in the current thread will be ok) and 
> then you can access everything ... import modules, create objects, etc.
>

Yes. That is what I want (to launch Python Interpreter from C++ and use it)
Where is the document?
 
> Pierre


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Sun Nov 14 18:35:35 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:35:35 +0200
Subject: .pyc files...
References: <1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.6345.1100420943.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpel29.hfd.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <2mqfp0tuuutj01njq2400trfhd4vtbv81m@4ax.com>

On 14 Nov 2004 13:30:38 GMT, rumours say that Nick Craig-Wood
<nick at craig-wood.com> might have written:

>This *is* bullet proof though
>
>  find . -name '*.pyc' -print0 | xargs -0 rm -f
>
>And if you don't want an error when there aren't any files
>
>  find . -name '*.pyc' -print0 | xargs -0r rm -f
>
>End unix sysadmin lecture ;-)

Minor detail: these are the GNU versions of 'find' and 'xargs' in the
above example; the traditional UNIX ones do not have the -print0 and -0
options, respectively.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
"Tssss!" --Brad Pitt as Achilles in unprecedented Ancient Greek


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 15 18:05:02 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 00:05:02 +0100
Subject: Set like feature
References: <1100552512.672456.317420@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1gnbes4.g8udka1u399knN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1100558210.880787.182680@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1gnbh0o.1vfqi91q17x9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Hari  Pulapaka <hari04 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I want to comapre every element in each row with the element in the
> remaining rows having the same column position. The rows need not have
> the same number of elements, in which case I have to do some more
> thinking :)
> 
> I was thinking of making each row of the array as a set and then
> comparing each row of the array with the compare function being the set
> intersection operation.

Sets have no order, so that just woudln't work the way you state it.
Rows 'a b' and 'b a' would appear identical, so the "having the same
column position" condition would not be respected.

You could maybe use a set(enumerate(therow.split())) -- but intersecting
such sets would be of dubious utility.  Maybe you mean symmetric
difference (union minus intersection), but even then you'd still have to
proceed in order to investigate which item of that difference comes from
which of the two rows (assuming you do care -- hard to tell from here).

I believe gadfly comes with a fast C-coded extension called kjbuckets
which might help with this kind of things (and a Python-coded
'fallback', not all that fast but easily portable, too).  You might want
to investigate that, if there's a chance you could get C-coded
extensions installed on your Python 2.2 installation.


Alex


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 28 07:58:32 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 13:58:32 +0100
Subject: How to extend inner classes?
References: <mailman.6844.1101591117.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gnys02.1f6pt7e1r8whx2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Kay Schluehr <kayschluehr at gmx.de> wrote:

> You can define a class variable Pos with the class Pos as its value
> 
> class PeriodicGrid :
>     class Pos:
>       pass            
>     Pos = Pos 
> 
> >>> grid = PeriodicGrid()
> >>> grid.Pos()
> <__main__.Pos instance at 0x00EEFAD0>

You can, but that 'Pos = Pos' statement in this code is just as
redundant and useless as it appears.  In every aspect, the behavior will
be exactly identical if you remove that assignment.


Alex


From claird at lairds.us  Wed Nov  3 11:08:05 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 16:08:05 GMT
Subject: Should I learn Python?
References: <624a388a.0411021328.5ac41f4c@posting.google.com>
	<418807d0$0$19691$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<624a388a.0411030512.3cf84547@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bvbn52-gko.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <624a388a.0411030512.3cf84547 at posting.google.com>,
Sam <sam at three60.com> wrote:
>So you're saying, in order to write smart, clean, well structured,
>readable code, and have fun doing so, I'm going to have to drop PHP
>and use Python?
>
>I'm not really interested in finding a replacement for PHP, it works
>just fine for me.
>
>I apologize for not phrasing my questions clearly, I wasn't looking
>for critisisms of PHP or why I shouldn't use it. What i'm really
>after, is given that I use PHP to develop sites currently, what types
>of situations would/could i use Python in web development? Is there a
>point when learning Python, that I'll say to myself "why use php?".
>Thanks

If you're happy with PHP, you'll likely stay with PHP, until you
run into an off-beat capability (Expect?  scientific/numeric
programming?  Does PHP build-in LDAPv3 awareness?  UDP?  SNMP?)
that you both need and that PHP makes painful.


From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 20 21:10:14 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 21:10:14 -0500
Subject: unicode question
In-Reply-To: <419fc9b9$0$198$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <qkLnd.22919$jf.19362@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<419fc9b9$0$198$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <419ff7cd_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> wolfgang haefelinger wrote:
> 
>> I wonder especially about case 2. I can see that "print y" makes a 
>> call to
>> Y.__str__() . But Y.__str__() can be printed?? So what is 'print' exactly
>> doing?
> 
> 
> It looks at sys.stdout.encoding. If this is set, and the thing to print
> is a unicode string, it converts it to the stream encoding, and prints
> the result of the conversion.

I hate to contradict an expert, but ISTM that it is 
sys.getdefaultencoding() ('ascii') that is the problem, not 
sys.stdout.encoding ('cp437')

gamma converts to cp437 just fine:
 >>> gamma = u"\N{GREEK CAPITAL LETTER GAMMA}"
 >>> sys.stdout.encoding
'cp437'
 >>> gamma.encode(sys.stdout.encoding)
'\xe2'
 >>> print gamma.encode(sys.stdout.encoding)
?
(prints a gamma)

Trying to encode gamma using the 'ascii' codec doesn't work:
 >>> str(gamma)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\u0393' in 
position 0: ordinal not in range(128)

My guess is that internally, print keeps calling str() on its argument 
until it gets a string object. So it calls y.__str__() yielding gamma, 
then gamma.__str__() which raises the error.

If the default encoding is set to cp437 then it works fine:

 >>> import sys
 >>> sys.getdefaultencoding()
'cp437'
 >>> gamma = u"\N{GREEK CAPITAL LETTER GAMMA}"
 >>> str(gamma)
'\xe2'
 >>> print gamma
?
(prints a gamma)

 >>> print str(gamma)
?
(prints a gamma)

Kent

> 
> Regards,
> Martin


From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Nov 29 04:56:29 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:56:29 +0100
Subject: Building web graphics with Python
In-Reply-To: <coer3d$gf$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <bee4de44.0411282217.650d0e73@posting.google.com>
	<coer3d$gf$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <20041129095629.GA17639@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Mon, Nov 29, 2004 at 10:35:00AM +0100, Peter Maas wrote:
> Steven Feil schrieb:
> >I am wondering if there is a light weight Python library for producing
> >web graphics on-the-fly. There is a C-language library called gd that
> >can be used in a CGI program to produce gif images.  The Library can
> >be used to produce graphics images that are dynamically generated.  I
> >was wondering if there is something similar for Python.
> 
> You can create a Python wrapper for gd with SWIG or Pyrex. PIL (Python
> Imging Library) and Piddle are native Python solutions.

No need to reimplement a gd wrapper:

http://dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/Python/Modules/Graphics/
http://newcenturycomputers.net/projects/gdmodule.html

-- Gerhard
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From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Nov 13 09:04:28 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 08:04:28 -0600
Subject: Python 2.4: Why only assignments to None are forbiden?
References: <4195190f@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <10pc53ff798bhaa@news.supernews.com>


"Josef Meile" <jmeile at hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:4195190f at pfaff2.ethz.ch...
> Hi,
>
> Textually from the highlights of python 2.4:
>
> "Assigning to None - the compiler now treats assigning to None as a 
> SyntaxError."
>
> I think in general assignments to built-in types, functions, and variables 
> should be also forbiden.

As Ian points out in another response, there's been some
discussion about making a fairly large subset of the builtins
name space immutable, and also to disallow shadowing
of builtins with identical names in module scope.

The main reason for this is performance optimization.
Right now, the len() function, for example, requires
a lookup and two (!) function evaluations. If the
compiler could trust that len() was always the function
in the builtins, then it could compile a direct call to the
__len__() function on the object, at a savings of the
lookup and one function call. There is a considerable savings
projected over the entire name builtin name space.

There's always a tension between protecting people
against common errors and keeping the language
as flexible and dynamic as possible. I'd prefer that
the editors and IDEs take up the slack. For example,
I found that JEdit colorized builtins differently from
ordinary names. This pointed out a few bad habits
I'd fallen into, without taking away the option of
overriding something when I really wanted it.

In any case, it won't happen in 2.4.x. That kind
of change will wait for a full point release: 2.5
or later.

John Roth






From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Nov  3 15:46:31 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:46:31 -0500
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5872.1099512105.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cthoeigtdun.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>	<slrncohmqk.n07.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<TfOdna4IePwZexXcRVn-pA@powergate.ca>	<TbadndhdMqHzaRXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>	<TbadndtdMqGHaBXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>	<6_qdnQZOZ_YYZRXcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>	<slrncoi7qs.dnr.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>	<E_udnZeXtbXWuxTcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5872.1099512105.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <OO-dncaCD70Y3BTcRVn-gg@powergate.ca>

Thomas Heller wrote:
> # raise exception in thread
> print pythonapi.PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc(t, id(exc))

I should note for the record that neither Thomas'
example above nor even my more complex one
(posted earlier, but unfortunately messed up on
my news server so I can't reply to it), implements
the required API fully.

The docs for that function say that you should check
the return value, and if it returns a value greater
than 1, you must call it again with a NULL as the
second argument (anyone know if None would be
okay when using ctypes?), or you probably risk screwing
up even more than this messy way of killing a
thread will screw things up normally.

-Peter


From export at hope.cz  Mon Nov 22 13:01:08 2004
From: export at hope.cz (Lad)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 10:01:08 -0800
Subject: Py2exe problem with wxPython 2.5.3
Message-ID: <81a41dd.0411221001.71e878c6@posting.google.com>

I use wxPython 2.5.3 with PythonWin 2.3.4. I have a script that can be
run
from Python without any problems. But when I try to run the compiled
script( with Py2exe) I get
 
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "start.py", line 1, in ?
  File "rgs.pyc", line 17, in ?
  File "wxPython\__init__.pyc", line 10, in ?
  File "wxPython\_wx.pyc", line 3, in ?
  File "wxPython\_core.pyc", line 15, in ?
ImportError: No module named _core

(Although Py2Exe did  not  report that the modul is missing after
compilation.)

Where can be a problem?
Thanks for help
Lad


From aldo at nullcube.com  Tue Nov 16 01:14:39 2004
From: aldo at nullcube.com (Aldo Cortesi)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:14:39 +1100
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] PyLid
Message-ID: <20041116061439.GA3199@nullcube.com>


PyLid


PyLid is an integrated unit testing and coverage analysis
tool for Python. Please see the manual referenced from the
PyLid page for more information.

http://www.nullcube.com/software/pylid.html






-- 
Aldo Cortesi
aldo at nullcube.com
http://www.nullcube.com
Off: (02) 9283 1131
Mob: 0419 492 863


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Nov 19 21:38:25 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:38:25 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <419E6C13.1040508@v.loewis.de>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.6614.1100891946.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<419E6C13.1040508@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <b8ynd.1301$QR.263@lakeread01>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:

> Neal D. Becker wrote:
> 
>> Doesn't Python (along with probably every other language ever invented)
>> display prior art here?
> 
> 
> Wrt. claim 1, yes. Actually, C is prior art here: you have two
> expressions representing pointers, and you have a system where
> you can determine that the pointers refer to different memory
> locations.
> 
> Wrt. claim 2, nothing is prior art.
> 
> Wrt. claim 3, Python is *not* prior art, because Python's operator
> is the two keywords "is not", not the single keyword "IsNot". Paragraph
> [0050] elaborates that the claim extends beyond the literal spelling
> they give (e.g. to "is_not", "isnot" etc.), but apparently not to
> having the operator written with *two* keywords. C is also not prior
> art, because the operator (==) is not written in letters.
> [...]

This makes me want to patent FuckingRidiculous. Or perhaps I should make 
that SingleClickFuckingRidiculous?

I seriously wonder how long the US Patent Office is prepared to continue 
making an ass of itself.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From luismgz at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 00:29:49 2004
From: luismgz at gmail.com (Neuruss)
Date: 3 Nov 2004 21:29:49 -0800
Subject: inferred typing
References: <slrncohibr.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<du78y9jqbu0.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <c56b627e.0411032129.42843794@posting.google.com>

Yes, as Ville already mentioned, Starkiller is a static type inference
system along with a c++ compiler for python.
According to its author, it should have been released already, but it
seems we will have to wait until he mangaes to get the time to finish
it.

As for Boo, it is a python-like language for the .NET framework.
It has a very good type inference system, although the language is
statically typed (the difference with traditional statyc typed
languages is that you don't have to declare types everywhere, only in
those few cases where the compiler cannot figure out the types by
itself, but I don't want to talk to much about it because I'm far from
being an expert...).

You should also read about Pypy, which is a very ambitious project
currently in development. They are already working in a type inference
system... http://codespeak.net/moin/pypy/moin.cgi/VilniusSprintTasks

And as far as I know, it seems that something alomg these lines is
planned for Ironpython, but it won't be soon.


From unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom  Wed Nov 24 17:02:01 2004
From: unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom (Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non triviale en fuite perpétuelle.)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 23:02:01 +0100
Subject: Python's annoyance.
References: <aa1af1ad.0411241047.4d5da2fd@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.25.05.54.16.884073@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <41a504f5$0$17368$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !

Just for fun (?) :

A qsort in "J-programming-language" :

    qsort =: ]`(($:@:((}.<:{.)#}.)),{.,($:@:((}.>{.)#}.)))@.(*@#)



More infos here :  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_programming_language






From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Nov 11 17:53:19 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 17:53:19 -0500
Subject: Floating point -> string conversions
In-Reply-To: <c0f3aa87.0411101935.43d85afb@posting.google.com>
References: <c0f3aa87.0411072002.7c42331e@posting.google.com>
	<c0f3aa87.0411101935.43d85afb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <t9Skd.57$nj.56@lakeread01>

John Fouhy wrote:

> I have another related question...
> 
> 
>>>>pow(2, 31)
> 
> 2147483648L
> 
>>>>'%d' % 2147483647.0              # python will convert to int
> 
> '2147483647'
> 
>>>>'%d' % 2147483648.0              # too big for an int, so error.
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: int argument required
> 
>>>>'%d' % long(2147483648.0)        # but yet, no trouble accepting a long.
> 
> '2147483648'
> 
>>>>'%d' % int(2147483648.0)         # and int() converts to long anyway
> 
> '2147483648'
> 
> Is this a bug? 
> 
> (python 2.3.4)
> 
I don't think so. The fact of the matter is that a %d format token 
explicitly expects an integral value.

The fact that %s coerces things makes us expect more of other format 
tokens, but what would you expect %d to do with 2147483648.5?

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 13:36:35 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 10:36:35 -0800
Subject: asynchat and threading
References: <Ij1pd.19554$ld2.4796764@twister.nyc.rr.com>
	<mailman.6755.1101310280.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0411241036.72eed3ef@posting.google.com>

Anthony Baxter <anthonybaxter at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.6755.1101310280.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> I can only paraphrase what I said in a recent python-dev thread -
> absolutely *no-one* should be starting new projects using asyncore and
> asynchat. Use twisted, instead - it's cleaner, saner, has an active
> development community, and is in all ways a better solution than the
> asyncore approach.
> 
> asyncore based code causes bleeding from the eyes and brain leakage
> through the ears.

Well, I had just started playing with asynchat, and I would like to
know
more about its shortcomings. Are you saying there are bugs in its
implementation in the standard library? What exactly can go wrong?
Or it is just ill designed and unconvenient to use?

If it is really that bad it should be removed, since I usually assume
that the stuff in the standard library is highly tested and stable.

    Michele Simionato


From sigzero at gmail.com  Sun Nov 21 20:36:51 2004
From: sigzero at gmail.com (Robert)
Date: 21 Nov 2004 17:36:51 -0800
Subject: Small Database Needed
References: <mailman.6669.1101048884.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<U-ydnTSaW_NELT3cRVn-hA@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <5b49f5aa.0411211736.faa662f@posting.google.com>

Istvan Albert <ialbert at mailblocks.com> wrote in message news:<U-ydnTSaW_NELT3cRVn-hA at giganews.com>...
> Kevin McBrearty wrote:
> 
> > I'm looking at implementing DB in my program for
> > analysis of CAD (STL Files).  This database will
> > require the basic functionality.
> 
> PySQLite to the rescue:
> 
> http://pysqlite.sourceforge.net/manual.html
> 
> Istvan.

SQLite is very nice. 

Another embedded one that you could look at it Metakit
(http://www.equi4.com/metakit.html). It also has very good Python
support. It is not an "SQL" type database though. It is easy to use
though.

Robert


From esj at harvee.org  Wed Nov  3 06:53:18 2004
From: esj at harvee.org (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 06:53:18 -0500
Subject: saved sys.path
In-Reply-To: <1gmo48i.1t3yslw1e7px39N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <%Xmhd.29071$g4.544104@news2.nokia.com>	<1gmkht7.1e1lg86qerk5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.5765.1099319253.5135.python-list@python.org>	<8vudnfRCkdgHExrcRVn-jA@powergate.ca>	<mailman.5854.1099439761.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmo48i.1t3yslw1e7px39N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cmagoh$ggf$1@sea.gmane.org>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> I agree.  But putting it in a scriptfile instead of a datafile is just
> as good, IMHO -- just like, say, config info for my bash shell sessions
> goes into a file .bashrc which is a script rather than being just a
> datafile.  Most of what .bashrc does is setting environment variables,
> but the extra flexibility of it being a script may still help.

agreed to a point.  What makes me uncomfortable about configuration 
files like .mumblerc files is what happens to them over time.  That this 
is not a python specific problem and it may just be a quirk of my 
personality.

over time, the base knowledge underlying configuration files changes and 
manual handling of those configuration files on every update should not 
be a requirement.  automatically updating files which are scripts as 
well as configuration data is much more difficult than just 
configuration files alone.

Another irritation is that if I set up configuration files to create a 
particular environment on one machine, replicating the machine 
independent portions of those configuration files and keeping everything 
else up-to-date spread across a 10 or 15 other machines is quite a pain. 
    it really could be handled better.  Not quite sure how yet but I'm 
thinking about it.  The solution is starting to smell like starter kit 
and Web server containing machine specific and independent configuration 
information.


> Similarly, as I see things, config info for a big app (coded in Python,
> or in whatever other language as long as it's got a Python accessible
> interface) can be in a scriptfile instead of a datafile.  The scriptfile
> starts up, adjusts environment info (sys.path foremost, but maybe other
> stuff too), imports the app's main module, launches 'main(sys.argv)'
> therein.  It _is_ externalized from the program, in my view -- it's a
> configuration scriptfile.  It just works better, with Python, to have
> the configuration scriptfile call the app's main, rather than doing it
> the other way round as you would in, say, C (where the app's main starts
> and then calls a configuration scriptfile).

so let me see if I understand.  If a application has X commands, there 
are X script files which set up the appropriate environments and call 
the individual command mainline routines?

it would probably help me if you could point me at an example of which 
you would consider a good version of this environment.

> I do like what you've posted, don't get me wrong -- I'm just pointing
> out that our different preferences on app configuration architectures do
> not descend from differences on the "externalized from the program"
> philosophy!

thank you.  It could probably be included into site.py without too much 
trouble if there was any interest.  I've been meaning to submit for 
consideration a couple things including a version of smtpd.py that forks 
off child processes and a file based queue system.  But I fear this 
conversation would start heading in the direction of the cpyan thread.  :-)

---eric



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov  8 14:35:57 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 20:35:57 +0100
Subject: MySQLdb installation
References: <418f99db$0$175$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<mailman.6117.1099931315.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418fba73$0$161$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <cmohqo$j1l$02$4@news.t-online.com>

T. Kaufmann wrote:

>> ... which mentions, among others:
>> 
>> * Red Hat Linux packages:
>>     - mysql-devel to compile
>>     - mysql and/or mysql-devel to run
> 
> ... and what does it mean? I don't understand it.

Install the package mysql-devel.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  7 09:04:28 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 15:04:28 +0100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<mailman.5999.1099743679.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418D61D3.3040904@acm.org>
	<mailman.6032.1099794432.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-F37F78.22073306112004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1gmvy6n.1ol6v0314gutc1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:

> Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
> > And I have certainly written some extremely poorly optimized
> > Python programs that positively *crawled*.
> 
> My guess is the poor performance had nothing to do with the language you
> wrote it in, and everything to do with the algorithms you used.

I think this is an overbid.

> Local optimizations rarely gets you more than a factor of 2 improvement.
> Choice of language (at least within the same general catagory such as
> comparing one native compiled language to another, or one virtual 
> machine language to another) probably has a somewhat broader range, but
> still a factor of 10 would be quite surprising.

kallisti:/tmp alex$ python -mtimeit 'exec("x=2")'
10000 loops, best of 3: 64.7 usec per loop
kallisti:/tmp alex$ python -mtimeit 'x=2'
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.187 usec per loop

There: a factor of 350 just for using the wrong construct in the same
language -- a silly exec rather than a plain assignment.

 
> To get really bad performance, you need to pick the wrong algorithm.  A
> project I worked on a while ago had a bit of quadratic behavior in it
> when dealing with files in a directory.  Most of our customers dealt 
> with file sets in the 100's.  One customer had 50,000 files.  Going 
> from, say, 500 to 50,000 is a 100-fold increase in N, and gave a 
> 10,000-fold increase in execution time.

Right, big-O can often dominate (there are exceptions: in almost all
practical cases the outstanding performance of Python's list.sort wipes
away the theoretical issue that it's O(N logN), letting dominate for
many special cases approaches that are O(N) -- the multiplicative
constants differ by just TOO much for all practically usable N's!-).

Still, consider...:

kallisti:/tmp alex$ python -mtimeit 's=[]
for x in xrange(1000): s = s+[x]'
100 loops, best of 3: 13.7 msec per loop

kallisti:/tmp alex$ python -mtimeit 's=[]
for x in xrange(1000): s += [x]'
1000 loops, best of 3: 1.58 msec per loop

The difference between s += [x] and s = s + [x] is large.  AND:

kallisti:/tmp alex$ python -mtimeit 's=[]
for x in xrange(4000): s = s+[x]'
10 loops, best of 3: 224 msec per loop

kallisti:/tmp alex$ python -mtimeit 's=[]
for x in xrange(4000): s += [x]'
100 loops, best of 3: 6.4 msec per loop

...the big-O is different!!!  O(N) for +=, way bigger for plain +: as
you can see, a x4 on N makes a 16.3 times increase in time here,
suggesting AT LEAST quadratic behavior.  Again, these are good vs bad
cases in the *same* language - Python 2.4 beta 1 in all cases.  I'm sure
you can easily imagine how different languages might make apparently
identical constructs be O(N) vs O(N squared) or worse, if even the same
language can do so for constructs whose difference may not be apparent
at all to the newbie...


Alex


From davidf at sjsoft.com  Sat Nov 20 08:29:40 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 15:29:40 +0200
Subject: Backporting Python 2.4 modules
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6638.1100923028.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6638.1100923028.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cnngs4$q7v$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Ian Bicking wrote:
> Wouldn't it be cool if someone took all the enhanced and new modules in 
> Python 2.3 and 2.4, and backported them to Python 2.2?  Maybe all into a 
> single distutil-installable package called, say, python24?  Then you 
> could do:
> 
> from python24 import logging
> 
> Lots of the modules have been backported (logging and optparse, for 
> instance), but there's no central place to find them.  And some modules 
> work fine in older versions, but you wouldn't know.
> 
> Since most of the enhancements since Python 2.2 have been in the 
> standard library, this would be really helpful.  Especially for those of 
> us who want to support older versions of Python, but also want to take 
> advantage of newer libraries.
> 
> Anyway, hopefully someone things this is a good idea as well and maybe 
> tried to do it?  Maybe?  Please?
> 
I don't know if anyone has done this but I do think it's a great idea.
I don't think the "from python24 " is neccessary, there could just be a 
source code repository of back ports...
I suspect for a lot of modules if the core functionality is rewritten in 
Python it'll be easier to backport - I wonder if PyPy will have any 
effect in this direction ...

David


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Nov 30 10:01:37 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:01:37 -0500
Subject: date diff calc
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6899.1101784379.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <K_-dnRIyHJPs_DbcRVn-jg@is.co.za>	<16811.29264.547058.669652@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.6899.1101784379.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <coi1vh$rkv$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Tim Peters wrote:
> [Skip Montanaro]
>>I think inputs from strings would be much more common.
> 
> Me too, although it's a bottomless pit.
> 
> guess-6-intended-meanings-for-1/2/3-before-breakfast-ly y'rs

I think Skip was intending that the format string be mandatory,
to avoid such ambiguity.  At least, that's what I inferred from
his example, where the format string came before the date string:

   start = datetime.date.fromstring("%Y-%m-%d", "2004-11-25")

-Peter


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Nov 11 14:32:41 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:32:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Beginner's scoping question
References: <4ef0f3a4.0411101240.21132006@posting.google.com>
	<20041111191646.99526.qmail@web8507.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041111T203050-828@post.gmane.org>

Premshree Pillai <premshree_python <at> yahoo.co.in> writes:
> 
> class C():
> 
> is incorrect. Should be
> 
> class C:

Or better yet:

class C(object):
    ...

Unless you're targeting older versions of Python, you probably want to be
creating new-style classes, not old-style classes.  Old-style classes are really
only present for backwards-compatibility, and will go away in Python 3000.

Steve



From niels_bohr at uol.com.br  Tue Nov  9 10:49:54 2004
From: niels_bohr at uol.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio?= Mendes)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 13:49:54 -0200
Subject: Learning curve - was: Re: Tutorials on Windows GUI programming
	with
In-Reply-To: <cmqmdc$rnk$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>
References: <oP_jd.6307$Km6.159982@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<mailman.6158.1100012138.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmqmdc$rnk$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>
Message-ID: <1100015394.5898.27.camel@localhost.localdomain>

This is how it works :)

          |      / (C)
          |     /
          |    /
          |   /
Effort    |  /
Required  |  |        ____ (Python :)
          |  |   ____/
          | /___/
          |/___________________
                Capability

You can have the following scenarion if you put a lot of effort on the
wrong directions (ex.: learning metaclasses to do simple admin scripts),
the former lacks such ambiguity.

           |
           |
           |
           |          ____ ....
Capability |         /
           |  __    /
           | /  \__/
           |/
           |___________________
                Time

Fabio


From square690410 at yahoo.com.tw  Thu Nov  4 03:32:51 2004
From: square690410 at yahoo.com.tw (Leon)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:32:51 +0800
Subject: question for sys.stdout
Message-ID: <cmcpg0$a5k$1@netnews.hinet.net>

"stdout" is file object, it open mode is "w"
and it have a close() fuction.....
while it run close(), how to reopen it

because I want to do rewrite it
stdout content update




From bjourne at gmail.com  Sun Nov  7 09:43:24 2004
From: bjourne at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 15:43:24 +0100
Subject: How come wxPython isn't in the standard library?
In-Reply-To: <ogjv52-anq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<aj3u52-a2r.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<ogjv52-anq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <740c3aec041107064358445d27@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the replies. There seems to be some good reasons that
wxPython isn't in the stdlib yet.

It's too big:

> 1) wxpython src tarball is about 18M,
> python's is about 8M.  Adding wx to the standard would more than
> triple the size of the standard distro.

IMHO, this is a no issue. It doesn't matter that much if the source is
8 or 26 mb. In fact, 8 mb is extremely small download for a
programming language.

Incompatible release schedules:

> Anything that is in stdlib is somewhat constrained to the same release
> schedule as the core Python.  For example it would have been bad to do
> the wxPython 2.4 to 2.5 transition during the 2.3 Python series.

I don't understand this argument really and would be happy if someone
would explain further. Why can't those people who compile the stdlib
just take whatever the lastest version of wxPython is, and include
that?

wxPython is not mature enough:

> The other thing I failed to mention is that the wxPython API isn't very
> Pythonic. 

> I haven't used WxPython for a little while, but not long ago (less than
> a year) it was dreadfully easy to crash a program if even a little
> mistake happened.

Ok. Those are big problems. So wxPython is not good enough to earn a
spot in the stdlib yet. However, getting your Python module into the
standard library must be like winning the Nobel Prize for Python
module programmers. Atleast, if *I* had a chance to get a module I've
written into the stdlib, I would definitely sync my release schedule
and make my module as pythonic as possible. :) Maybe in the future it
can be included?

-- 
mvh Bj?rn


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Nov 14 17:48:51 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 16:48:51 -0600
Subject: .pyc files...
References: <E1CTDp7-00050j-00@galvatron.kickingdragon.com>
	<mailman.6343.1100420001.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <x74qjsnj1o.fsf@guru.mired.org>

"Simon John" <simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk> writes:

> Stephen Waterbury wrote:
>
>> > OK, stupid question, but it's been bothering me for ages.. J
>> >
>> > I love Python to bits, but .pyc files always litter my source tree,
> and
>> > they've always bothered me. ...
>
>> One solution (on unices, at least):
>>
>> alias cleanpy="find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm {} ';'"
> or with backticks:  rm -rf `find . -name '*.pyc'`

Better with $(: rm -rf $(find . -name '*.pyc').

       <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Sun Nov 21 16:56:18 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:56:18 GMT
Subject: generic object - moving toward PEP
References: <aJtnd.118100$HA.81413@attbi_s01>
Message-ID: <6a8od.26504$g21.7369@fe1.texas.rr.com>

"Steven Bethard" <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote in message
news:aJtnd.118100$HA.81413 at attbi_s01...
<snip>
> (3) Allows simple conversion from dict-style access to attribute access:
>
>  >>> d = {'a':2, 'b':4, 'c':16, 'd':256}
>  >>> d['a'], d['d']
> (2, 256)
>  >>> b = bunch(**d)
>  >>> b.a, b.d
> (2, 256)
>
> This could actually be supported recursively, if that seems useful:
>
>  >>> d = {'a':2, 'b':4, 'c':{'d':16, 'e':256}}
>  >>> b = bunch.frommapping(d)
>  >>> b.c.d
> 16

Steven -

This sounds *very* much like the ParseResults class that I implemented in
pyparsing.  For a given set of results from a parsing operation, one can
access them:
- as a list (tokens[0], tokens[1], ...)
- as a dict (tokens["name"], tokens["phoneNum"], ...)
- as attributes (tokens.name, tokens.phoneNum, ...)

I started out just returning lists of tokens, but found that it was
important to support some level of naming to the returned tokens -
otherwise, maintenance in the face of modifying grammars became very
difficult.  For example, if an optional token were inserted between name and
phoneNum, now one would need to do a lot of testing on number and types of
returned tokens - very messy!  Instead, the tokens are given names as
defined in the grammar specification, so that intervening syntax doesn't
mess things up.

Then, I added the attributes-style access because it looks more Pythonic.

ParseResults can also be accessed recursively.  If phoneNum were defined
with sub-fields, one could access tokens.phoneNum.areaCode or
tokens["phoneNum"]["areaCode"], for example.

As an afterthought, I then added an XML output format for this class, so
that tokens.asXML("PERSONAL_DATA") would generate:
<PERSONAL_DATA>
  <name>John Doe</name>
  <phoneNum>555-1212</phoneNum>
</PERSONAL_DATA>

ParseResults defines quite a number of operators for managing and
manipulating ParseResults objects.  I think this class may give you some
ideas about your bunch class.  I guess some of the code may appear kludgey,
such as the __new__ handling, but it seems to be holding up reasonably well.

HTH,
-- Paul




From SYNTONIX01-SA at syntnx.com  Mon Nov 29 20:21:06 2004
From: SYNTONIX01-SA at syntnx.com (System Attendant)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:21:06 -0500
Subject: [MailServer Notification] To External Sender: a virus was found a
	nd action taken.
Message-ID: <E12675579EE0D21191AF0008C79F7DF0011872CE@SYNTONIX01>

ScanMail for Microsoft Exchange took action on the message.  The message
details were: 
Sender = python-list at python.org
Recipient(s) = tnguyen at syntnx.com;
Subject = Mail Delivery (failure tnguyen at syntnx.com)
Scanning time = 11/29/2004 20:21:06
Engine/Pattern = 7.000-1004/2.269.00

Action taken on message:
The message body contained HTML_Netsky.P virus. ScanMail deleted the message
body.

The attachment message.scr contained WORM_NETSKY.P virus. ScanMail took the
action: Deleted. 
Warning to external sender: ScanMail has detected a virus in an email you
sent.


From jerf at jerf.org  Tue Nov 16 17:02:34 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:02:34 -0500
Subject: determining the number of output arguments
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:43:55 -0800, Josiah Carlson wrote:
> Guido hasn't updated his stance, so don't hold your breath.

I'm not in favor of it either. I just think that *if* it were going in, it
shouldn't be a "keyword".

I think variable size tuple returns are a code smell. Now that I think of
it, *tuple* returns are a code smell. (Remember, "code smells" are strong
hints of badness, not proof.) Of the easily thousands of functions in
Python I've written, less than 10 have returned a tuple that was expected
to be unpacked. 

Generally, returning a tuple is either a sign that your return value
should be wrapped up in a class, or the function is doing too much. One of
the instances I do have is a tree iterator that on every "next()" returns
a depth *and* the current node, because the code to track the depth based
on the results of running the iterator is better kept in the iterator than
in the many users of that iterator. But I don't like it; I'd rather make
it a property of the iterator itself or something, but there isn't a
code-smell-free way to do that, either, as the iterator is properly a
method of a certain class, and trying to pull it out into its own class
would entail lots of ugly accessing the inner details of another class. 




From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Fri Nov 12 16:18:56 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:18:56 -0500
Subject: Python 2.4: Why only assignments to None are forbiden?
References: <4195190f@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <qnkd5yi3gvz.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

Josef Meile <jmeile at hotmail.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
> Textually from the highlights of python 2.4:
>
> "Assigning to None - the compiler now treats assigning to None as a
> SyntaxError."
>
> I think in general assignments to built-in types, functions, and
> variables should be also forbiden. It's a common mistake to do things
> like this:
>
>  >>> def getFileName(file):
> ...   parts=file.split('/')
> ...   return parts('/')[-1]

> Specially if you come from python 2.1.x where "file" didn't exist.
> Instead, there was "open"
>
> On the example's context, file is a string and won't cause any damage
> because it is inside a function, so, the scope is local and it will be
> deleted after the function call. But think what would happen if
> somebody defines "file" as a global variable and other people use that
> code?

That may not be great style, but it's not a mistake: file is used as a
local variable, so the global binding doesn't enter into it. And with
this short of function, I wouldn't worry too much.

Longer functions, yes, you might get bit, especially with other
builtins, like str and dict.

> Doing this validation for python 2.4.x will break some things, like
> the validation with "None" does. But I think it's better when you now
> that you are trying to use a "reserved word", you could as well use
> the "str" as an example, which I think is also common on newies.

I believe the idea behind making None non-assignable is one of
optimization: it's used a lot, and each time, the runtime has to do a
lookup to find the current value.

But making other builtins unassignable, while nice, removes some of
the dynamism that makes Python nice.

Recently, I needed to check what files my program was opening (and not
closing; I was running out of file descriptors). The easy way to do
that was to override the builtin open() function, returning a proxy
object that would annouce it's been opened, and when it's been closed.
This isn't quite the same thing: I had to assign to __builtin__.open
so that all modules would get my new open. However, if open were
declared unassignable, I'll bet you that it would be bound at
*compile* time instead of runtime, and this trick wouldn't work anyways.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Nov 24 07:15:58 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 06:15:58 -0600
Subject: Vtk
In-Reply-To: <co1kfb$g9b$1@news.newsland.it>
References: <co1kfb$g9b$1@news.newsland.it>
Message-ID: <16804.31614.92354.570113@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    3d> you have a information on the Vtk and its installation to use it
    3d> with python on windows?

You'd be best off checking the VTK website:

    http://www.vtk.org/

Skip


From ncoghlan at email.com  Tue Nov 30 05:42:03 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:42:03 +1000
Subject: Closing files
In-Reply-To: <cofh51$qk8$1@news.sap-ag.de>
References: <1gnz2kq.1jnqpi01tkznh0N%news+0409@henrikholm.com>
	<cofa4u$l9i$1@news.sap-ag.de> <iuGqd.1051$Tv6.749@read3.inet.fi>
	<cofh51$qk8$1@news.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <41ac4e7a$0$25785$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Daniel Dittmar wrote:
> - that suggest a different solution; like declarations on local 
> variables that say "call destructor when object goes out of scope"

You may be interested in PEP 310 (reliable acquisition/release pairs): 
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0310.html

(Although if that idea gets adopted, it is unlikely to use the 'with' keyword - 
see PEP 3000 for the reason why)

Regards,
Nick.


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Nov 15 01:35:12 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:35:12 -0600
Subject: Python 2.4: Why only assignments to None are forbiden?
In-Reply-To: <41962ca5.363205101@news.oz.net>
References: <4195190f@pfaff2.ethz.ch> <10pc53ff798bhaa@news.supernews.com>
	<41962ca5.363205101@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <41984E20.6000407@colorstudy.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> Since this is a compile-time issue , perhaps it is time to consider
> a pragma statement as a framework for telling python pre-runtime things
> like optimization info? E.g., pragma could send in-context meta-info
> to various python infrastructure components using python method call syntax
> which the compiler could recognize in the token stream and compile and
> execute in its working environment right then. So e.g.,
> 
>     pragma compiler.override(len=True, cmp=False)

There's a recipe for doing something very similar to this with the 
current Python:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/277940

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  / http://blog.ianbicking.org


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Nov 30 10:14:24 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:14:24 -0500
Subject: comment out more than 1 line at once?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6928.1101825656.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cohc71$2pqli$1@claire.desy.de>
	<mailman.6928.1101825656.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <coi2ng$1fd$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Gustavo C?rdova Avila wrote:
> Riko Wichmann wrote:
>> is there a way in Python to comment out blocks of code without putting 
>> a # in front of each line? Somethings like C's
>>
> I haven't seen the "other" way to block-comment multiple
> lines of code: triple-quoted strings.

Building on this thought: it's very effective to write all
your "real" triple-quoted strings (usually they're the doc-comments,
but not always) using one type of quotation mark, thus reserving
the other type for use as temporary "commenting" as Riko asks:

"""
def func(foo, bar):
     '''this function spams a foo with a bar'''
     pass
"""

If you're consistent about it, it's at least as effective as
multi-line comment in other languages for this purpose.

> Strings which are unassigned in a source file are dropped
> by the compiler, so they don't make it to the execution
> stage; they're nice that way.

Not that it matters, but note that the first "unassigned"
string in a file (or class, or function, etc) will not be
dropped but will be available as the __doc__ attribute of
the module, class, function, or whatever.

I guess this could matter if someone was trying to ship
only .pyc files, thought that some critical and/or embarrassing
code was actually eliminated, but found out that it was
all nicely visible in the doc-comment for the module in
question...

-Peter


From valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk  Wed Nov 17 05:22:44 2004
From: valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk (Valkyrie)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 18:22:44 +0800
Subject: HTMLParser problem
In-Reply-To: <slrncpkbno.gjq.djcb@mindcrime.local>
References: <1100610863.75889@eng-ser4> <cnd1a5$srn$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>
	<1100614470.532201@eng-ser4> <slrncpkbno.gjq.djcb@mindcrime.local>
Message-ID: <1100686964.669552@eng-ser6>

I've used regular expression to deal with the problem finally, sigh...

Thanks everyone!


Dirk-Jan C. Binnema wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:14:33 +0800, Valkyrie <valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk> wrote:
> 
>>Thank you. That means there is no way to deal with it using simple python
>>built-in functions?
> 
> 
> Well, you can always preprocess your HTML by replacing dubious
> constructs. It's ugly but it works. You might even do something smart
> and replace thing back after processing.
> 
> Good luck,
> Dirk.
> 
> -------------------------------------
>     Dirk-Jan C. Binnema (djcb)
> mail: djcb [at] djcbsoftware [dot] nl
> blog: www.djcbsoftware.nl/ChangeLog
> im  : djcb at jabber.org
> -------------------------------------


From mwm at mired.org  Tue Nov  2 16:53:29 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 15:53:29 -0600
Subject: Send HTML e-mail in Python?
References: <c90c3203.0411021254.74b10c06@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <x7y8hjvrxi.fsf@guru.mired.org>

mksql at yahoo.com (Max) writes:

> Simply sending a text message with HTML tags does not work. The e-mail
> client displays the message as plain text with visible <tags>.

You need to add MIME headers to the mail message. I.e., along with the
From: and Subject: lines, add:

MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html

As long as you're using straight ascii, that should be sufficient. If
you want to use extended character sets, things get messy. See <URL:
http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/cs/Services/rfc/smtplist.html > for the
RFCs you'll want to look at.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From square690410 at yahoo.com.tw  Sun Nov  7 20:57:07 2004
From: square690410 at yahoo.com.tw (Leon)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 09:57:07 +0800
Subject: how to count server response time from client ??
References: <cma9fb$kru$1@netnews.hinet.net> <cmabe8$4mn$1@netnews.hinet.net>
	<mKyjd.3084$FE.1224@lakeread06>
Message-ID: <cmmjpr$eku$1@netnews.hinet.net>

Client send--> network --> Server --> Server Process --> Server Response --> 
network --> Client receive
                                           |------------------------------------------------|
|----------------------------|           Server process response time
    packet arrive server time 
|---------------------------|
                                                                             
                                            packet arrive client time
So I want get server time clock different from client.

"Adam C." <adam at 757.org> ???????:mKyjd.3084$FE.1224 at lakeread06...
> Leon wrote:
>> .....in not use NTP(network time protocol) Protocols,do it
>> "Leon" <square690410 at yahoo.com.tw> 
>> ???g???l???s?D:cma9fb$kru$1 at netnews.hinet.net...
>>
>>>I want to write a web test tool(HTTP Protocols)
>>>I use header 'Date' do obtin server response time
>>>but client and server time clock is different
>>>how to count server and client time clock  interval or discrepancy
>>>Can obtin server receive time ????
>>>
>>>thank everybody...
>
> Psuedocode:
>
> start = GetCurrentLocalTime()
> SendRequest()
> stop = GetCurrentLocalTime()
> RepsonseTime = stop - start
>
> Or are you looking for something different?
>
> --
> Adam 




From mwm at mired.org  Tue Nov 16 16:02:15 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 15:02:15 -0600
Subject: .pyc files...
References: <E1CTDp7-00050j-00@galvatron.kickingdragon.com>
	<mailman.6343.1100420001.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<x74qjsnj1o.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<slrncpkha7.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
Message-ID: <x7fz39mrs8.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se> writes:

> On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 16:48:51 -0600, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
>> "Simon John" <simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>> 
>>> Stephen Waterbury wrote:
>>>
>>>> > OK, stupid question, but it's been bothering me for ages.. J
>>>> >
>>>> > I love Python to bits, but .pyc files always litter my source tree,
>>> and
>>>> > they've always bothered me. ...
>>>
>>>> One solution (on unices, at least):
>>>>
>>>> alias cleanpy="find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm {} ';'"
>>> or with backticks:  rm -rf `find . -name '*.pyc'`
>> 
>> Better with $(: rm -rf $(find . -name '*.pyc').
>
> Yeah, but then you're bash-specific.  Or at least that rules sh, csh and
> tcsh.

As has already been stated on the list, $() is POSIX. So sh has it. So
does zsh. If you're scripting in csh or tcsh, you're making a
fundamental mistake. The references for that have also already been
posted in this thread.

       <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Nov 10 03:31:55 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 09:31:55 +0100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<87d5ysbkq9.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<4b39d922.0411051555.24f31663@posting.google.com>
	<tyffz3j2mi2.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<4b39d922.0411091159.3b6e2682@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tyfbre62jgk.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse) writes:

> Hehe.  I'm really not trying to start a flame war, honest :P 
> I don't even like Java.  
> 
> My point was just that it's sort of misleading to say "wxPython is
> faster than Swing, therefore Python tends to be faster than Java for
> all things".

OK, how about this:

  C is faster than Java, and Python is just a wrapper around C, ergo
  Python is faster than Java for all things.

:-) x 10


From exarkun at divmod.com  Thu Nov 11 09:19:52 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:19:52 GMT
Subject: socket.error:(13,'Permission deied')
In-Reply-To: <4193644c@news.seeder.net>
Message-ID: <20041111141952.20649.463969642.divmod.quotient.2679@ohm>

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:08:41 +0800, "Austin" <austin at maxtronic.com.tw> wrote:
>........................
> data = ....
> self.broadcast_ip = 255.255.255.255
> 
> UDPSock.sendto(data,(self.broadcast_ip,36))
> .........................
> 
> 
> These codes run on Windows without errors and warnings.
> But i excute that on Fedora Core 2, it shows the error
> "socket.error:(13,'Permission deied')"
> i try to disable the firewall and become a root but it doesn't work, either.
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions ?
> 

  Try calling this first:

    UDPSock.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_BROADCAST, 1)

  Jp


From vinay_sajip at red-dove.com  Wed Nov  3 18:58:26 2004
From: vinay_sajip at red-dove.com (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 23:58:26 +0000
Subject: New configuration module released - command line options
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5884.1099525660.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840@posting.google.com>	<mailman.5873.1099513574.5135.python-list@python.org>	<418956E9.8000600@red-dove.com>
	<mailman.5884.1099525660.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418970A2.3060305@red-dove.com>

Neal Becker wrote:

> The point is, you would like to specify the options once, and use this
> single specification for all option sources - instead of redundantly having
> to specify that there is a 'verbosity' option that takes a value of 'int'
> and has a default of 'whatever', and do this once (and with different
> syntax) for each source - config files, command line, etc.

The optparse module is very good for parsing command line options, but 
is not a general purpose program configuration facility. It's not really 
sensible to grow optparse to become a general purpose program 
configuration module.

The config module aspires to be a good configuration facility, but does 
not concern itself with parsing command line options. There's little 
point in reinventing the wheel when optparse is more than fit for 
purpose, for many people.

Hence, the best option is to make them work together, but it's unlikely 
that you'll get a 'one size fits all'. For example, some applications 
will allow a user to specify which configuration to load via command 
line options. In theory, a configuration file could be used to configure 
command line options and you could call optparse with those. But it's 
chicken and egg in many scenarios, and command line options for a 
program tend to be less volatile than configurations in general. I think 
it's more natural to specify configurations in a configuration file, and 
allow overriding some subset of them via command-line arguments.

I've posted (in another post) an example of how config and optparse can 
work together with  minimal fuss.

Best regards,


Vinay Sajip


From pit.grinja at gmx.de  Sun Nov 21 06:43:21 2004
From: pit.grinja at gmx.de (Piet)
Date: 21 Nov 2004 03:43:21 -0800
Subject: wxpython grid GRIDTABLE_NOTIFY_ROWS_DELETED
Message-ID: <39cbe663.0411210343.6a1de0ed@posting.google.com>

Hello,
I have written a small program which dynamically displays data from a
data structure in a wx.grid. The grid reacts as expected when the data
structure is enlarged: a new row is added and filled with data. When
data is removed, the data is deleted as expected, but instead of being
removed, a row is being added to the grid. Can anyone explain why?
Here is sample code to illustrate what I mean.
Thanks in advance
Piet
import  wx
import  wx.grid
#---------------------------------------------------------------------------

class XmlTableModel(wx.grid.PyGridTableBase):
    def __init__(self,headers,data):
        wx.grid.PyGridTableBase.__init__(self)
        self.headers = headers
        self.data = data

    def GetNumberRows(self):
        return len(self.data)

    def GetNumberCols(self):
        return len(self.headers)

    def RemoveData(self,rowNum):
        self.data.pop()
        self.GetView().ProcessTableMessage(wx.grid.GridTableMessage(self,wx.grid.GRIDTABLE_NOTIFY_ROWS_DELETED,1))

    def AddData(self,data):
        self.data.append(data)
        self.GetView().ProcessTableMessage(wx.grid.GridTableMessage(self,wx.grid.GRIDTABLE_NOTIFY_ROWS_APPENDED,1))

    def IsEmptyCell(self, row, col):
        try:
            if self.data[row][col] != "":
                return True
            else:
                return False
        except:
            return False

    def GetValue(self, row, col):
        return self.data[row][col]

    def SetValue(self, row, col, value):
        self.data[row][col] = value

    def GetColLabelValue(self, col):
        return self.headers[col]

    def GetDefaultColLabelSize(self):
        return 100

    def GetRowLabelValue(self, row):
        return self.data[row][0]
#---------------------------------------------------------------------------

class TestFrame(wx.Frame):
    def __init__(self, parent):
        wx.Frame.__init__(self, parent, -1, "Simple Table Model Demo",
size=(640,480))
        self.panel = wx.Panel(self, -1, style=0)
        self.grid = wx.grid.Grid(self.panel)
        self.headers = ["Eins","Zwei","Drei","Vier"]
        self.data = [["A1","A2","A3","A4"],
                     ["B1","B2","B3","B4"],
                     ["C1","C2","C3","C4"],
                     ["D1","D2","D3","D4"]]
        self.grid.SetTable(XmlTableModel(self.headers,self.data),
True)
        self.AddBtn = wx.Button(self.panel, -1, "Add Entry")
        self.AddBtn.SetDefault()
        self.Bind(wx.EVT_BUTTON, self.OnAddEntry, self.AddBtn)
        self.RemoveBtn = wx.Button(self.panel, -1, "Remove Entry")
        self.Bind(wx.EVT_BUTTON, self.OnRemoveEntry, self.RemoveBtn)
        self.bs = wx.BoxSizer(wx.VERTICAL)
        self.bs.Add(self.grid, 1, wx.GROW|wx.ALL, 5)
        self.bs.Add(self.AddBtn)
        self.bs.Add(self.RemoveBtn)
        self.panel.SetSizer(self.bs)

    def OnAddEntry(self, evt):
        self.grid.GetTable().AddData(["NA1","NA2","NA3","NA4"])

    def OnRemoveEntry(self, evt):
        self.grid.GetTable().RemoveData(0)

#---------------------------------------------------------------------------

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys
    app = wx.PySimpleApp()
    frame = TestFrame(None)
    frame.Show(True)
    app.MainLoop()
#---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mefjr75 at hotmail.com  Sat Nov  6 15:42:35 2004
From: mefjr75 at hotmail.com (M.E.Farmer)
Date: 6 Nov 2004 12:42:35 -0800
Subject: Color schemes
References: <41838c6e$0$7153$d5255a0c@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<18282ecb.0410301418.1ee469f5@posting.google.com>
	<418c2006$0$34293$cd19a363@news.wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <18282ecb.0411061242.7deceef3@posting.google.com>

Mark Schonewille <nospam at nospam.com> wrote in message news:<418c2006$0$34293$cd19a363 at news.wanadoo.nl>...
> Josiah and M.E.,
> 
> Thanks you for your replies.

You are welcome Mark and thanks for the followup.
It is always nice to know if the OP even got the reply ;)

> As I understand from your answers, 
> the colorised scripts on web sites have little to do with the 
> use of colorisation in script editors by Python programmers, but 
> those programmers who prefer an editor with colorisation 
> features probably apply colorisation rules similar to the pretty 
> looking scripts on websites and there probably is't a standard 
> colour scheme.

Exactly! 
PySourceColor *is* an attempt to colorize as well as Scintilla. 
As far as I can tell there is not a default color scheme.
Maybe Idle or PythonWin.
And there are always Vim, and emacs......I am sure some one loves
those too.
I prefer the dark color scheme from PySourceColor, dark exactly
matches my editor. I bet most people feel most comfortable with
whatever they use most.
The colors develop associations.
If there is a concensus on the default color scheme I would be
intrested in knowing.
What is most liked or needed ?
Printing good colorized source is diffrent then viewing colorized
source.
I prefer light text on dark page on a monitor (bad eyes) , but dark
text on light page to print (saves ink).
Diffrent color schemes are needed for diffrent applications.

Now I have a question.
What are you trying to do, or is this just for general knowledge?
Just curious,
 M.E.Farmer


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Tue Nov 16 11:50:43 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:50:43 -0500
Subject: newbie question
In-Reply-To: <c30e885a.0411160835.35e39084@posting.google.com>
References: <c30e885a.0411160835.35e39084@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <419A2FE3.2020505@bellsouth.net>

John wrote:

>Can python do Shell programming or system programming as perl does?
>Thanks.
>
>John
>  
>
Yes.  The only problem is that the perpetual migraine you have from 
doing Perl and shell will quickly go away.  So, if you're into pain, 
stick with Perl and shell.  If you want relief, come to Python.

Seriously, though, Python is an excellent language for doing sysadmin 
type tasks. (I'm assuming that's kind of what you wanted?)  Most 
sysadmin type tasks are in modules whereas with Perl, they're cluttering 
the toplevel namespace (I don't think Perl has the concept of namespace, 
but you get the drift).  So, not knowing what you want to do, you may 
want to checkout the os module in Python (I've found os.path.* to be 
specifically helpful).  You may also want to checkout the shutil module. 

Jeremy


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Tue Nov  2 09:30:14 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 14:30:14 +0000
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
In-Reply-To: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cm85ln$8cc$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Stephen Ferg wrote:

> I submit that the future expansion of Python usage is constrained by
> Python's lack of a CPAN-like facility, and I submit that without a
> CPyAN Python will never even get close to achieving the degree of
> widespread usage that Perl currently enjoys.

An excellent idea. I look forward to seeing what you accomplish in this 
regard.
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From someone at microsoft.com  Thu Nov 25 15:12:27 2004
From: someone at microsoft.com (Jive)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 20:12:27 GMT
Subject: Help please, turning off threads
Message-ID: <L0rpd.5109192$ic1.479040@news.easynews.com>

I've ported Python to a realtime operating system and embedded it in an
application that controls machinery.  Python will be used to expose an API
to end users.  It seems prudent to disable threads.

I undefined WITH_THREAD.  Now I run into this in threadmodule.c:

#error "Error!  The rest of Python is not compiled with thread support."
#error "Rerun configure, adding a --with-threads option."
#error "Then run `make clean' followed by `make'."

Problem is, I've never run configure, and probably could not if I wanted to.
I used the NT distribution and hacked it into submission. All the Python
source code I'm using is now checked into a source control system.  I doubt
that "configure" could handle that.    I don't use "make" either.

Can someone tell me how to "configure" for no threads by hand?  Does it
suffice just to remove the offending file threadmodule.c? If that is the
case, why the error message rather than just

#ifndef WITH_THREAD
#else
  // the thread stuff
#endif

I removed the file from the project just to see what would happen.  The
project built without reporting an error, and the program seems to run
Python okay.




From ville at spammers.com  Wed Nov 24 13:03:18 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 20:03:18 +0200
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Ice 2.0 released
References: <ketod.45140$K7.3294@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<ted8q0h19c4disktejd9ur7pdgec0h1hl0@4ax.com>
	<s7SdnfFRp_kLGjncRVn-1A@speakeasy.net>
	<du7y8grqs75.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<lPmdnVVWnN9nDjncRVn-gA@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <du7k6sb6s61.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Marc" == Marc Laukien <marc at zeroc.com> writes:

    Marc> That is correct. I thought what I wrote about licensing
    Marc> above was already clear enough, but if you have the need to
    Marc> clarify it even further, that's of course fine :)

It was more about emphasizing the fact than clarifying it - an
untrained eye might skim the post and miss the detail. I've seen all
too many complaints about people who are surprized about the issues
with GPL'd libraries (as opposed to GPL'd programs).

A part of it might have been about just venting my disappointment,
because, well, the project seemed interesting :-).

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From flaxeater at gmail.com  Sat Nov 13 17:02:08 2004
From: flaxeater at gmail.com (Chad Crabtree)
Date: 13 Nov 2004 14:02:08 -0800
Subject: Advice needed
References: <1100361297.413616.17890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <58494099.0411131402.57e9aec5@posting.google.com>

"Alberto" <aaflores at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<1100361297.413616.17890 at f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>...
> I was trying to understand the reasons why I should learn Python. More
> like a pros/cons about this language. Currently, I use C, C/C++, Java,
> Perl, Visual VB and was looking to see the usefulness of Python.  Any
> suggestions?

Well if you have all those languages then I don't think there's any
real reason to spend the time learning python.  Except if a cooler
object system, minimialistic syntax, and a groovy community are
important to you then perhaps you should learn python.


From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Nov 11 07:16:22 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:16:22 GMT
Subject: Python for Reverse Engineering
In-Reply-To: <419265E6.4020200@echoblast.com>
References: <cmhdi4$7vi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu><418c50ad$1_3@omega.dimensional.com>
	<418C54E9.2000409@vt.edu>
	<mailman.6042.1099806403.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmlhv8$ajc$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cmlj6b$7j9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <cmmihf$7af$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<IVrkd.177971$%k.126855@pd7tw2no> <419265E6.4020200@echoblast.com>
Message-ID: <qKIkd.418$G36.137@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

James S wrote:
> I got a few questions about the strings, so I figured I would share the 
> answers.


I decided to play around with it for a bit.


The first digit of any group of 5 has less diversity.  Here's a
histogram of the distinct number of characters for each position.

  0 0456BCDJKLQRSTYZ
  1 0123456789BDFGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXYZ
  2 023456789BCDFGHJKLMPQRSTVWXY
  3 012345679BCDFGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXYZ
  4 012345679BCDFGHJKNPQRSTXYZ
  5 1235679BCGKLNPQTVXYZ
  6 0123456789BCDFGHJKLMNPRSTVWXZ
  7 0123456789CDFGHJKLMNPQSTVWXYZ
  8 0123456789BCDFGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXY
  9 0123456789BCFGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXYZ
10 01235678CDFGHKLMNPQSTWYZ
11 0123456789BCDFGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXYZ
12 0123456789BCDGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXYZ
13 0123456789BCDFGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXYZ
14 0123456789BCDFGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXYZ
15 0345678BDFHKLMNQSTVWY
16 0123456789BCDFGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXY
17 0123456789BCDGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXZ
18 012345679BCDFGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXYZ
19 0123456789BCDFGHJKLMNPQRSTVXYZ
20 046789BGHJKLMNRTVWXYZ
21 013456789BCDFGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXYZ
22 123456789BCDFGHJKLMNPQRSTVWYZ
23 0123456789BCDFHJKLMNPQRSTVWXYZ
24 012345678BCDFGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXYZ


There are 31 characters in the encoding.  They are the
digits 0-9 and the consonants B-Z (including Y).  I suspect
the vowels were omitted so no English words would be
generated by accident.

This gives a maximum space of 31**25 or
   19232792489931358333837313998767870751
values.

Given

 > There are 28629150 valid keys in the space of 28629150^5

then that's
   19232789130978948891037625982187500000
or smaller than 31**25 by
          3358952409442799688016580370751

124 bits are needed to encode the full space because

 >>> 2**123 < 28629150**5 < 2**124
True
 >>>

However it's also the case that

 >>> 2**123 < 31**25 < 2**124
True
 >>>

This means at most a fraction of a bit (about 0.85)
is available for any checksum, since you say

> There is a checksum encoded in the string that provides a basic check. 
> There is a unquice number encoded in each string that represents each 
> possible key.

If all possible keys in the space can be encoded by
this scheme then there's no extra space for a checksum.


I therefore don't know what that number means for this problem.

Supposing there is a checksum, it's probably the first digit
in the group.  The loss of randomness is a clue -- the checksums
I know don't have that effect.


I can't tell if transpositions change the checksum.  The only
anagram group is

#59 5SFHJ-GHP1B-FCSCQ-KBCQB-86J50
            ^^^^
#37 C9W27-N2SJ3-8HB1P-4VD0F-R9QXL
                  ^^^^

and there may be a seed to the checksum which changes for
each group number, or the mapping from characters to numbers
can change based on the index in the string.

In any case, as others pointed out in this thread, if I really
had the code on my computer I would break out my disassembler
and start tracing code to reverse engineer it.  Much easier
than trying to figure out the algorithm on these clues.


				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From helten0007 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 23 19:52:05 2004
From: helten0007 at yahoo.com (Pete.....)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 01:52:05 +0100
Subject: Transfer data from webpage form to database
References: <41a36ab7$0$23056$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net><m33bz05u3p.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com><41a38f13$0$23068$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net><liNod.42476$Z14.17919@news.indigo.ie>
	<mailman.6735.1101248667.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41a3ccf2$0$29450$ba624c82@nntp06.dk.telia.net>
Message-ID: <41a3d863$0$29440$ba624c82@nntp06.dk.telia.net>

The error I get is that when  this code starts: %(form[name].value, 
form[surname].value, form[username].value, form[password].value)
it says that NameError: name 'name' is not defined
      args = ("name 'nama' is not defined",)
which is from the html webpage form code
form action="insertintotable.py" method="get">
<p>Name:<br><input type="text" name="name"></p>

Any ideas ?
Thanks all

"Pete....." <helten0007 at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:41a3ccf2$0$29450$ba624c82 at nntp06.dk.telia.net...
> First thanks for all your friendly input and for looking at this once 
> again...
>
> I think I made some progress, but its still not working, so I must still 
> do something wrong.
> Here is how far I have come.
>
> I made an insertintotable script, that I want to run every time a person 
> presses "The submit button on my webpage" It goes like this:
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> #!/pack/python-2.3.2/bin/python2.3
>
> from pyPgSQL import PgSQL
> import cgi
> import cgitb
> cgitb.enable()
>
> form = cgi.FieldStorage()
>
> connect = PgSQL.connect(user="user", password="password", host="host", 
> database="database")
> cur = connect.cursor()
> cur.execute('''INSERT INTO persons (name, surname, username, password) 
> (VALUES(%s,%s, %s, %s)''')
> %(form[name].value, form[surname].value, form[username].value, 
> form[password].value)
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> My question is, do I need more code to tell the program that I want to 
> transfer the user input ( on my webpage ) to my postgresql database.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The code from my webpage is:
>
> #!/pack/python-2.3.2/bin/python2.3
>
> from pyPgSQL import PgSQL
> import cgi
> import cgitb
> cgitb.enable()
>
> print '''
>
> <html>
>
> <head>
>
> <title> Adminperson  </title>
>
> </head>
>
> <body bgcolor="#0479ff">
>
> <h1><p align="center">Insert Person</h1></p>
>
> <hr>
>
> <form action="insertintotable.py" method="get">
>    <p>Name:<br><input type="text" name="name"></p>
>    <p>Surname:<br><input type="text" name="surnavn"></p>
>    <p>Username:<br><input type="text" name="usernavn"></p>
>    <p>Password:<br><input type="text" name="password"></p>
>    <p><input type="submit" value="Submit"></p>
> </body> </html>'''
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> And once again thanks...
> 




From davidf at sjsoft.com  Sat Nov 20 03:06:37 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 10:06:37 +0200
Subject: PIL for Python 2.4?
In-Reply-To: <419d002e$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <6r6pp018glonqu2kqeau5ru9nhfj9fpchv@4ax.com>
	<419d002e$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <cnmtud$3rm$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Scott David Daniels wrote:
> Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
> 
>> Has anyone built PIL (1.1.4 or 1.1.5) for Python 2.4?  If yes, please
>> let me know, since I can't test a couple of my apps using PIL with 2.4 .
>> You can even reply by email (yes, I dare use true email in newsgroup
>> postings, but then, I'm postmaster and welcome spam :)
>>
>> TIA
> 
> [... windows ... replies from others on using the MS VC 7.1  ...]
> Note that if you install MinGW, distutils can build acceptable
> files with it.  Since I believe I remember the PIL stuff is set up
> to build with distutils, you should be able to get it going that way
> as well.
> 
I tried building PIL with mingw recently and had some failures I can't 
remember ...

It *did* make me think "I wish there was some Pure Python image-handling 
code". It seems like the C linkage is mainly required for image 
formatting handling - I couldn't find any JPEG reading/writing code in 
Pure Python ... would be nice :-)

David


From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Nov 23 20:10:02 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:10:02 -0800
Subject: protocols, inheritance and polymorphism
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>
	<Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<YWKod.137814$HA.44609@attbi_s01>
	<donn-F6A9D8.11153623112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<tqadnT2kAIXJEj7cRVn-hA@rogers.com>
	<donn-F39B72.13183123112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<mqedndyH_YCYUT7cRVn-uQ@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <donn-D778C1.17100223112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <mqedndyH_YCYUT7cRVn-uQ at rogers.com>,
 "Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote:
...
> I was rather saying that subtype polymorphism (through inheritance, rather 
> than protocols) and checking with isinstance is safer.  You are right that 
> inheritance is not foolproof either.  But if someone is inheriting from your 
> base class, they are bound to be more aware of the interface and to be more 
> careful when overriding an attribute that would completely change the 
> behavior of their objects.  A protocol can be broken in many other ways.  In 
> the case of a well known protocol like iterators most people know better 
> than to use the name "next" for any attribute other than a method used for 
> iteration.  But if you create a little known protocol interface with a 
> poorly chosen attribute name like "x" it is very likely that someone is 
> going to use the same name in a class for some attribute that is completely 
> different (e.g., data instead of a method).  And if they are not explicitly 
> inheriting from a base class they may never be aware they are obfuscating a 
> behavior that is being used somewhere in their code.  Note that I said 
> "explicitly inheriting", which infers that people can make the same kind of 
> mistakes also if they inherit from some class without knowing it.
> 
> This discussion feels to me like deja vu.  It's a kind of philosophical 
> discussion in which I've been involved before, with me on this side of the 
> argument and with other people being on the side that says that "python is 
> designed for people who rely more on their users and for users who are more 
> reliable, the other people should use other languages" (my own 
> paraphrasing).  I'm not saying this with any disrespect toward the other 
> side.  After all, this is probably inherent in a dynamically typed language, 
> and dynamic typing has other advantages instead.  It's just something I 
> still have to get used to: what is python good for, in what kind of 
> applications it should be used and when should you just use a different 
> (perhaps a strongly typed) language.

I'm very sympathetic to the advantages of static typing
(NB, I read here that Python is strongly, though dynamically,
typed.  It is not statically typed.)  Rather than embrace
subtype polymorphism through inheritance, however, I see it
as evidence that no one has figured out how to make static
typing really work with OOP.  There has to be a better way
to do it.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom  Mon Nov 22 02:53:20 2004
From: unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom (Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non triviale en fuite perpétuelle.)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:53:20 +0100
Subject: Small Database Needed
References: <mailman.6669.1101048884.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<U-ydnTSaW_NELT3cRVn-hA@giganews.com>
	<5b49f5aa.0411211736.faa662f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41a19c26$0$8197$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !

MetaKit doc :

    Iadaptive integer (becomes Python int)
    L64-bit integer (becomes Python long)
    FC float (becomes Python float)
    DC double (is a Python float)
    SC null terminated string (becomes Python string)
    BC array of bytes (becomes Python string)

no date or datetime ?





From rambam at bigpond.net.au  Tue Nov  2 16:14:53 2004
From: rambam at bigpond.net.au (Israel Raj T)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 21:14:53 GMT
Subject: New Python Books?
References: <1099427406.763633.285680@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87y8hkgdfo.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>

ryan at ryankaskel.com writes:

> I love reading books on Python and have almost all of them. However, it
> seems that there aren't any new ones currently being written that
> aren't for beginners. Does anyone know of any plans for future Python
> books that cover specific topics like wxPython or mod_python (like
> O'reilly's mod_perl and also their book on PerlTk). Thanks.

I am currently enjoying Dive into Python.




From michael at stroeder.com  Sat Nov 27 12:24:56 2004
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:24:56 +0100
Subject: [web_framework] Basic Question regarding web framework
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6842.1101575496.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6842.1101575496.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8spm72-c2i.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

Francis Lavoie wrote:
> 
> I have some questions regarding webframework,
 > [..]
> Firstly, I have question regarding the way it work. I see that there's a 
> bunch of web framework, zope, webware, Skunkweb, etc...

I hope there will soon be frameworks implementing PEP 333 (Python Web 
Server Gateway Interface v1.0).

http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0333.html

> What are exactly all these framework?

They most times are completely different approaches.

> Can I use ZODB outside ZOPE?

Yes.

Ciao, Michael.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Nov 30 03:03:03 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:03:03 +0100
Subject: Python code and C code in the same module?
References: <%uVqd.112242$V41.104378@attbi_s52>
Message-ID: <coh9fn$fm6$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steven Bethard wrote:

> I'd like to merge a module written in C with a module written in Python so that the user can 
> access objects from either module by importing the single, merged module.
>
> Specifically, I'm looking at the collections module, which is written in C, and my Bunch object, 
> which is written in Python.  I'd like the Bunch object to appear in the collections module so that 
> you can do:
>
>     from collections import Bunch
>
> without, of course, removing the ability to do:
>
>     from collections import deque
>
> There's no need for the code to reside in the same file or anything of course -- I just want the 
> different objects to appear in the same module.

the usual way to do this is to expose the C objects via the Python
module:

    # foo.py
    from _foo import flubb, glubb, dubb

    # main.py
    import foo

    foo.flubb(flabb)

if you insist on doing it the other way around, you can emulate from-import
on the C level.  see e.g. the "call" function in Modules/_sre.c for an example
(but instead of calling the "func", add it to the local module; see the "init_sre"
function in the same module for code that adds stuff to the module dict).

</F> 





From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Nov 26 18:58:14 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:58:14 -0800
Subject: Few things
In-Reply-To: <41a70800$0$25763$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
References: <mailman.6799.1101448149.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41a70800$0$25763$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <20041126155126.FA36.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at email.com> wrote:
> 
> Josiah Carlson wrote:
> >>A command like this:
> >>print 0x9f, 054135
> >>This prints an hex and octal. I think the syntax for the hex is a bit
> >>ugly; and the syntax for the octal looks just dangerous (and wrong) to
> >>me.
> > 
> > 
> > Internally those values are Python integers, there would need to be a
> > special way to tag integers as being originally hex or octal.  Or the
> > pyc would need to store the fact that it was originally one of those
> > other methods specifically for the print statement.
> 
> I believe the OP was objecting to the spelling of "this integer literal is hex" 
> and "this integer literal is octal".
> 
> Python stole these spellings directly from C. Saying it's ugly without 
> suggesting an alternative isn't likely to result in developers taking any 
> action, though. (Not that that is particularly likely on this point, regardless)
> 
> If the spelling really bothers the OP, the following works:
> 
>    print int("9f", 16), int("54135", 8)
> 
> That's harder to type, is a lot slower at run-time and uses more memory, though.

Perhaps, though I thought he was talking specifically about printing
(hence using a print statement).  Regardless, I also don't believe the
"I don't like this" without "this is the way it should be" will result
in anything.

 - Josiah



From pc451 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  7 23:19:56 2004
From: pc451 at yahoo.com (Peter Clark)
Date: 7 Nov 2004 20:19:56 -0800
Subject: Email "portal" in Python?
Message-ID: <f7199550.0411072019.182a98df@posting.google.com>

Think of something like MyYahoo: a personalized portal with news
aggregator, weather forecast, comics, etc. Now instead of visiting a
web site, think of all of it being sent daily as an email. It does
have a web interface, but mostly for selecting your content: this is
my location for weather, these are the news feeds I'm interested in,
these are the comics I like, save my preferences, and the server takes
care of the rest. Does such a thing exist? (Even in other non-Python
languages?) I've tried Freshmeat, and the other usual sources, but so
far, nothing. If there isn't any such creature, I'll write my own, but
I wanted to first check that I'm not re-inventing the wheel.

Thanks,
:Peter


From unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom  Wed Nov 17 17:26:18 2004
From: unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom (Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non triviale en fuite perpétuelle.)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 23:26:18 +0100
Subject: How to do this in Python?
References: <mailman.6509.1100725558.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <419bd017$0$2346$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !

See popen




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 15 17:55:02 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:55:02 +0100
Subject: determining the number of output arguments
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6361.1100470915.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cn95k1$bfq$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6371.1100498345.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnb7hi.1hwbltbftm6c1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6392.1100556222.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gnbg4k.13z20mj1w1o0ysN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Fernando Perez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> > Yep, that's the cookbook recipe Jp was mentioning -- Sami Hangaslammi's
> > recipe 284742, to be precise.  Yep, it _is_ going into the printed 2nd
> > edition (which I'm supposed to be working on right now -- deadline
> > closing in, help, help!-).
> 
> Well, I feel pretty good now: I didn't see Jp's mention of this, and just
> guessed it should be doable with those three tools.  I just looked it up, and
> it seems it's exactly what I had in mind :)  Cute hack, but I tend to agree
> with Scott Daniels' comment that this kind of cleverness tends to promote
> rather unreadable code.  Maybe I just haven't seen a good use for it, but I
> think I'd rather stick with more explicit mechanisms than this.

Yeah, but "once and only once" is a great principle of programming.  Any
time you have to say something _TWICE_ there's something wrong going on.

So,

a, b, c, d = lotsa[:4]

_should_ properly give the impression of a code smell, if your "once and
only once" sense is finely tuned.  What's the business of that ':4' on
the RHS?  Showing the compiler that you can count correctly?!  You're
having to tell twice that you're getting four items into separate
variables, once by listing exactly four variables on the LHS, and
another time by that ':4' on the RHS.  IMHO, that's just as bogus as
struct.unpack's limitation of not having any way to indicate explicitly
'and all the rest of the bytes goes here', and for similar reasons.

I think it would be better to have a way to say 'and all the rest'.
Lacking that, some automated way to count how many items are being
unpacked on the LHS is probably second-best.
 
> Anyway, is it true that this will only work for non-extension code?  If
> you are being called from a C extension, dis & friends are toast, no?

Yep, whenever your function isn't being called as the only item on the
RHS of a multiple assignment, then counting how many items are on the
LHS are being unpacked in that inexistent or unapplicable multiple
assignment is right out.  Presumably, any way to count the number of
items in this fashion will need a way to indicate "not applicable",
though it's not obvious whether raising an exception, or returning a
clearly bogus value such as 0, is most useful.

Another case where a specific number of items is requested, which is not
(syntactically speaking) a multiple assignment, is assignment to an
_extended_ slice of, e.g., a list (only; assignment to a slice with a
stride of 1 is happy with getting whatever number of items are coming).
I don't particularly LIKE writing:
    L[x:y:z] = len(L[x:y:z]) * [foo]
i.e. having to extract the extended slice first, on the RHS, just to
gauge how many times I must repeat foo.  However, if I squint in just
the right way, I _can_ try to convince myself that this _isn't_ really
violating "once and only once"... and I do understand how hard it would
be to allow a 'how many items are needed' function to cover this
case:-(.


Alex


From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Nov 14 03:49:31 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 09:49:31 +0100
Subject: permuting letters and fairy tales
References: <67lld8kr76.fsf@aster.homelinux.net>
	<41957f26.318790786@news.oz.net> <4195b412.332338677@news.oz.net>
	<41960db9$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net> <419623d3.360947044@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <cn764o$4m9$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> It really deserves to be more than an acquaintance.??It's?surprising?that
> itertools doesn't show up in posted solutions more (Alex's notwithstanding
> ;-)

I can help fix that :-)

While I think that a good old for-loop is often more readable than the
"cool" itertools solution, itertools has just grown a new function that
fits into your messwith() generator quite nicely:

def messwith(s):
    for isalpha, chars in itertools.groupby(s, type(s).isalpha):
        chars = list(chars)
        if isalpha and len(chars) > 3:
            mid = chars[1:-1]
            random.shuffle(mid)
            chars[1:-1] = mid
        yield "".join(chars)

Peter




From pierre.barbier at cirad.fr  Thu Nov  4 08:31:01 2004
From: pierre.barbier at cirad.fr (Pierre Barbier de Reuille)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 14:31:01 +0100
Subject: question for sys.stdout
In-Reply-To: <cmcvqb$njd$1@netnews.hinet.net>
References: <cmcpg0$a5k$1@netnews.hinet.net>
	<4189ec52$0$6282$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<cmcvqb$njd$1@netnews.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <418a2ea8$0$19978$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

MMmhh ... I'm not sure what you _really_ want to do ???

You want to replace stdout by a custom file-like object ? Because I 
don't see what you call "doing rewrite" ... You should give a clear 
example of the behaviour you want.

Pierre

Leon a ?crit :
> sorry....
> how to replace sys.stdout to file-like object ?
> I use os module fdopen() and file object fileno()
> stdout = os.fdopen(sys.stdout.fileno(),"w")
> or
> stdout = os.fdopen(os.dup(sys.stdout.fileno()),"w")
> 
> it still can't do rewrite, it result is append content
> 
> .>_<.    Please help me
> 
> "Pierre Barbier de Reuille" <pierre.barbier at cirad.fr> 
> ???????:4189ec52$0$6282$626a14ce at news.free.fr...
> 
>>If you want to "rewrite" a "stdout" object, just write a file-like object 
>>and replace sys.stdout !
>>
>>Then don't care about the old stdout anymore ... it's a pipe and it won't 
>>bother you anymore :)
>>
>>Another way to do so is the "C" way ... ie. using os.dup2. The advantage 
>>of the "dup2" method is the replacement of the stdout of the whole program 
>>(so, if you use external functions writing in stdout it will work), but 
>>the drawback is you need to have a real file (ie. file, pipe, ...)
>>
>>Depends on what you want to use :)
>>
>>Leon a ?crit :
>>
>>>"stdout" is file object, it open mode is "w"
>>>and it have a close() fuction.....
>>>while it run close(), how to reopen it
>>>
>>>because I want to do rewrite it
>>>stdout content update
>>>
> 
> 


From dsa at unilestemg.br  Wed Nov 10 16:20:49 2004
From: dsa at unilestemg.br (Douglas Soares de Andrade)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:20:49 +0000
Subject: saving curses screen state (putwin() and getwin() again)
In-Reply-To: <slrncp37ds.9c2.fake@sewage.raw-sewage.fake>
References: <slrncp37ds.9c2.fake@sewage.raw-sewage.fake>
Message-ID: <200411102120.50024.dsa@unilestemg.br>

Can you release a source code for this program ? Im wanting to use curses and 
python, but havent found any doc.

Thanks !


Em Qua 10 Nov 2004 04:48, Matt Garman escreveu:
> I'm working on a curses-based application in Python.  I've
> implemented what I call a "Chooser" (a fancy name for a menu):
>
>         ---> 1. Choice 1 <---
>              2. Choice 2
>              3. Choice 3
>
> So the user can use the arrow keys to change choices.  When he hits
> enter, the screen is re-drawn with a new interface.  When that
> interface is quit, the screen should return to the Chooser, exactly
> as it was left.
>
> So my strategy is to call putwin() before going to the new
> interface, and call getwin() after returning from the previous
> interface.
>
> This works as described the *first* time, but subsequent calls to
> getwin() return the window that was saved with the first call to
> putwin().  I.e., it's as though only the first call to putwin() has
> any effect.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks!
> Matt
>
> --
> Matt Garman
> email at: http://raw-sewage.net/index.php?file=email



From mj.clift at virgin.net  Wed Nov 10 12:36:02 2004
From: mj.clift at virgin.net (Malcolm Clift)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 09:36:02 -0800
Subject: range and wx co - ords
References: <a86fb13f.0411081407.3a382a6b@posting.google.com>
	<a86fb13f.0411091707.11be7433@posting.google.com>
	<4191dc09.80425295@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <a86fb13f.0411100936.7ce01770@posting.google.com>

Hi Bengt,

Really, a big thankyou for that. It's a lot of work and I appreciate
it. It would seem to be perfect, at very least for what I want to do
right now. I take your point about 'true' word wrap and I may
experiment with that in the future. At least with such a full
explanation I have something to work with if I do.

All the best and thanks once again,

Malcolm


From jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 16 13:00:20 2004
From: jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 10:00:20 -0800
Subject: Should I learn Python?
References: <624a388a.0411021328.5ac41f4c@posting.google.com>
	<418807d0$0$19691$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<624a388a.0411030512.3cf84547@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c718a6cf.0411161000.6d74e1a@posting.google.com>

sam at three60.com (Sam) wrote in message news:<624a388a.0411030512.3cf84547 at posting.google.com>...
> So you're saying, in order to write smart, clean, well structured,
> readable code, and have fun doing so, I'm going to have to drop PHP
> and use Python?
> 
> I'm not really interested in finding a replacement for PHP, it works
> just fine for me.
> 
> I apologize for not phrasing my questions clearly, I wasn't looking
> for critisisms of PHP or why I shouldn't use it. What i'm really
> after, is given that I use PHP to develop sites currently, what types
> of situations would/could i use Python in web development? Is there a
> point when learning Python, that I'll say to myself "why use php?".
> Thanks

learn python and you will answer your own question, php is just about
1 rung above perl in maintainability


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Nov 17 13:15:05 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:15:05 -0600
Subject: Need function to test if EFFECTIVE UID has read-access to a
	file.
In-Reply-To: <9b96ed1.0411170915.2b88da0e@posting.google.com>
References: <9b96ed1.0411170915.2b88da0e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16795.38185.538817.781620@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Markus> Well, basically the title says it all. I can't use os.access()
    Markus> because it tests whether the REAL UID can read/write/exec the
    Markus> file. Surely there has to be a function that does what I need,
    Markus> but I can't seem to find it. Any input welcome.

try:
    f = open("somefile")
except IOError:
    print "file not readable"

Skip


From claird at lairds.us  Mon Nov 29 19:08:03 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 00:08:03 GMT
Subject: A lock that times out but doesn't poll
References: <slrncq5vvl.61m.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Spsqd.3779600$yk.580269@news.easynews.com>
	<coe5l8$6l1$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<yzKqd.5915789$6p.948699@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <geps72-886.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <yzKqd.5915789$6p.948699 at news.easynews.com>,
Jive <someone at microsoft.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>B) Writing bug-free code is quite possible when the job is well-defined and
>"from scratch."
			.
			.
			.
?  !?  Who has "well-defined" jobs?


From insert at spam.here  Wed Nov 24 15:33:15 2004
From: insert at spam.here (Doug Holton)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:33:15 -0600
Subject: Python's annoyance.
In-Reply-To: <aa1af1ad.0411241047.4d5da2fd@posting.google.com>
References: <aa1af1ad.0411241047.4d5da2fd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <D8ednVh-VsWabTncRVn-uQ@comcast.com>

caroundw5h wrote:
> Serioulsy, one of python's main selling points is its elegant syntax,
> non perl like, non C like. If it can't live up to it. I guess i might
> as well use perl or ruby or server side javascript.

I think it's still better than perl or ruby, but anyway,
here are your two examples in boo: http://boo.codehaus.org/

1.
t = "${page}: ${title}"

2.
def p2(arg as int):
     print arg*2

Probably you'll be able to do similar things in Python 3.0, too, but 
that is years away.


From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Fri Nov 19 15:42:34 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:42:34 -0500
Subject: Wrapping a C library in Python
References: <roy-99F088.20103518112004@reader1.panix.com>
	<e253918f.0411190823.25921d6b@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6609.1100883096.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qnkzn1din9h.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> writes:
>>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Loritsch <loritsch at gmail.com> writes:
>     Michael> I recommend both boost::python
>     Michael> (http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/index.html) and
>     Michael> ctypes (http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/),
>     Michael> but for very different reasons.
>
>     Michael> If wrapped code speed and production of a binary is a
>     Michael> goal in creating your python extensions, use
>     Michael> boost::python.  The price you pay for creating an fast
>     Michael> binary python extension is coding your translation from
>     Michael> python in C/C++ in C/C++ (I suppose you could get around
>     Michael> this by creating a boost::python module, and then
>     Michael> wrapping it with a python module to do the type
>     Michael> translation).  And in boost::python, C++ to python
>     Michael> exception translation is supported.
>
> I don't fully agree with this.  I've been working on a wrapper for
> antigrain, a C++ library that makes heavy use of templates.  I started
> off using pyste (a boost::python generator) and boost.  It worked
> reasonably well - pyste is not being actively maintained right but you
> can usually work around the limitations by writing boost code where
> you need to.  I was reasonably happy, until I saw my *.so files
> ballooning.  After wrapping a small fraction of the library, and
> having instantiated only a few of the many templates I ultimately
> wanted, my extension files were at 20MB, which is *much larger* than
> the agg library or moderately sophisticated applications built around
> it.  And I still had *a lot* left to expose!

Did you strip the extension modules (run 'strip' on the .so file)? I
know, there's nothing in distutils that will do that automatically. I
just did this on an extension module of mine using boost::python.
Before stripping, it was about 1.3 MB, afterwards, 50 kB.

The problem is the symbol table is kept by default, and it seems with
GNU C++ (at least) that can get *huge* when templates are involved.

Compile times are pain still.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From mauriceling at acm.org  Sun Nov  7 00:13:43 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 16:13:43 +1100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <1gmueqr.1hs16lxfjegpuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<wdWdnZ-fWZxWlBDcRVn-vw@rogers.com>
	<1gmueqr.1hs16lxfjegpuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <418DAF07.4040006@acm.org>


> What if we do, _AND_ carefully follow Eric Raymond's excellent
> recommendations each and every time we ask for help?  Are then we
> allowed to loathe and despise the mass of clueless dweebs?-)

I do have to thank you for the story on Plato and his students (in 
"reverse jython" thread).

Now that courtnesy is done, I believe you do have all rights not to 
reply to all requests for help. As in the law, you have the rights to 
remain silent...

> I can be a newbie at a bazillion subjects, easily -- but I cannot truly
> be a newbie at such tasks as human interaction, social dynamics, general
> information retrieval and processing.  I can easily guess what will
> happen if I enter any mailing list or newsgroup with both guns blazing
> out of frustration, for example, and therefore I cannot easily
> sympathize with anybody who _does_ behave so foolishly.  It's not a
> matter of expertise about any specific subject, not even exactly one of
> skills, but rather one of personal maturity and character.

Bazillion subjects, my respect. Looking back at this thread...

1. I've asked a question which I may be wrong (many people do that)

2. Some had answered and pointed out my misconceptions, thank you all 
for that.

3. Some had pointed to the fact that I am from University of Melbourne 
(with unknown motives). It was then clarified that I was an honours 
student (www.zoology.unimelb.edu.au) in the Dept of Zoology. Perhaps I 
may say that I am a molecular biologist by degree.

4. Some had pointed out instances (books and all) whereby my wrong 
impressions might have been formed.

5. Some had painfully taxed on the my initial misconceptions and 
generalizing it to the ridicule of non-experts, and in the process of 
so, suggesting controversial codes in the pre-text of eliciting responses.

6. Furthering it, using notable words from famous people, to 
discriminate against a group of people, when the first instance had been 
breached... you can choose not to reply.

All these happens when the discussion had been taken to other areas... I 
brings one to wonder on maturity and character......

> 
> I know how to search mailing list archives, or google groups ones, and
> considerate enough to use this easily acquired and very useful knowledge
> to try and avoid wasting other people's time and energy, for example, by
> airing some complaint that's been made a thousand times and answered
> very comprehensively.  When I can't find an answer that way, I ask with
> courtesy and consideration and appreciation for the time of the people
> who, I hope, will be answering my questions. Etc, etc -- reread Eric's
> essay on how to ask for help, it's a great piece of work.

All the knowledge in this world are in libraries and now, networked 
libraries via internet. Today, almost all high school students in 
developed countries are versed in internet. And by your argument, it 
seems that all universities are complete waste of money as all knowledge 
is out there and the tools to access the knowledge is readily available.

As mentioned, the discussion is heading else where and my misconceptions 
cleared before your replies. If I've indeed forgotten, my sincere 
apologies and hereby thank you for your time and efforts.

> 
> That doesn't mean a newbie isn't always welcome, _if_ they show any sign
> whatever of being worth it.  But asking for tolerance and patience
> against _rude_ newbies which barge in with shrill, mostly unjustified,
> repetitious complaints, is, I think, a rather far-fetched request.
> 
> 
> Alex

You still have the right to remain solemn.

maurice


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov  9 18:20:06 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 23:20:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Stripping HTML with RE
References: <76d8b714.0411091506.581637c0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041110T001702-361@post.gmane.org>

Steveo <stephen_p_barrett <at> hotmail.com> writes:
> 
> I wanted to allow all H1 and H2 tags so i changed it to:
> 
> re.compile("<[^H1|^H2]*?>")
> 
> This seemed to work but it also allowed the HTML tag(basically anythin
> with an H or a 1 or a 2)  How can I get this to strip all tags except
> H1 and H2.  Any Help you could give would be great.

You probably want a lookahead assertion.  From the docs at
http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html:

(?!...)
    Matches if ... doesn't match next. This is a negative lookahead assertion.
For example, Isaac (?!Asimov) will match 'Isaac ' only if it's not followed by
'Asimov'.

So I would write your example something like:

>>> re.sub(r'</?(?!H1|H2|/H1|/H2)[^>]*>', r'', '<a>sdfsa</a>')
'sdfsa'
>>> re.sub(r'</?(?!H1|H2|/H1|/H2)[^>]*>', r'', '<H1>sdfsa</a>')
'<H1>sdfsa'
>>> re.sub(r'</?(?!H1|H2|/H1|/H2)[^>]*>', r'', '<H1>sdfsa</H2>')
'<H1>sdfsa</H2>'

(I was too lazy to compile the re, but of course that's what you'd normally want
to do.)

Steve



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Nov 18 12:25:18 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:25:18 -0800
Subject: using the bsddb from Python (missing docs!)
In-Reply-To: <4edc17eb.0411180549.33719f1e@posting.google.com>
References: <4edc17eb.0411180549.33719f1e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041118091850.F9C4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato) wrote:
> 
> I was browsing through the source tree of Python 2.4b2 and in Lib/bsddb/test 
> I found a lot of interesting stuff. It seems that the support for the bsd
> database is much better than documented in the standard library
> http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/module-bsddb.html.

Indeed.

> There are tests for locking, transactions, join, etc.
> Is there some documentation anywhere? 
> I could infer what I need from the tests but maybe there is already
> some nice article on the net explaining everything I want to know and more
> ;-) OTOH, I do not find Python-centric documentation in the sleepycat web 
> site.

I'm not aware of any documentation, but I haven't looked much.  I've
just been checking out the dir(dbinstance.db), which offers cursors and
all sorts of other good stuff.

Sorry I can't really help you.

Thinking about it, it may be that much of the stuff isn't documented
and/or exposed because they wanted a simple dictionary-like interface to
bsddb.

 - Josiah



From nick at craig-wood.com  Tue Nov  9 01:44:08 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 09 Nov 2004 06:44:08 GMT
Subject: Determining combination of bits
References: <x3Qjd.121786$hj.41260@fed1read07>
	<x4qdnSo59KhGSBLcRVn-1w@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <slrncovpqj.e30.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Larry Bates <lbates at syscononline.com> wrote:
>  Sounds a lot like a homework assignment

Indeed!

> but I'll give you some "hints".
> 
>  1) Use bit shifting operator (>>) and boolean &
>      operator to isolate each bit in the integer.

Shifting isn't necessary - D.keys() contains a list of all possible
(for this problem) binary numbers.

>  2) It will be either zero or one.  Build up a
>      list of these which will represent the power
>      of two that each one bit represents.

Whenever you think "build up a list" you should be thinking list
comprehension.  A conditional add to a list should make you think of
the if clause of a list comprehension.

>>> D={1:'one',2:'two',4:'three',8:'four',16:'five'}
>>> def f(n): return [D[i] for i in D.keys() if XXXXX]
... 
>>> f(9)
['four', 'one']
>>> f(22)
['two', 'three', 'five']
>>> f(25)
['four', 'one', 'five']

I've left XXXXX as an excercise - see 1) above for a hint ;-)

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From br_y at yahoo.de  Thu Nov  4 07:59:25 2004
From: br_y at yahoo.de (Birgit Rahm)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 13:59:25 +0100
Subject: (omniorb) Corba using with python
Message-ID: <cmd94e$83v$01$1@news.t-online.com>


Hello newsgroup,

is this the right group to ask about the logging of Corba while usingomniORB
for Python?
I know that there are 3 funktions in the Corba package.
But I dont know, where I can tell the python on which file I what to log.
This is what I want.
--

Mit freundlichen Gr??en / best regards
Birgit Rahm




From godoy at ieee.org  Tue Nov 16 15:47:30 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:47:30 -0200
Subject: get function arguments
References: <cndm3b$lin$1@newshispeed.ch>
	<mailman.6451.1100635452.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<m3mzxho82g.fsf@g2ctech.com>
	<mailman.6454.1100637718.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m38y918qsd.fsf@g2ctech.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> writes:

> Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear.  That's what I meant when I said "you should be
> able to figure them out with a little object introspection (e.g. dir..."  The
> interactive prompt (and the dir or help function) is almost always the right
> answer to find out about object attributes in Python.  =)

I'm the one to say I'm sorry.  Before I sent the message I read your
post like I answered, but when I read my answer it sounded completely
different to me :-)

-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at ieee.org>


From eurleif at ecritters.biz  Tue Nov 30 09:13:07 2004
From: eurleif at ecritters.biz (Leif K-Brooks)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:13:07 -0500
Subject: Syntax for extracting multiple items from a dictionary
In-Reply-To: <TuednaLvv_626THcRVn-hA@rcn.net>
References: <TuednaLvv_626THcRVn-hA@rcn.net>
Message-ID: <313dd0F37cgplU1@uni-berlin.de>

shark wrote:
> row = {"fname" : "Frank", "lname" : "Jones", "city" : "Hoboken", "state" :
> "Alaska"}
> cols = ("city", "state")
> 
> Is there a best-practices way to ask for an object containing only the keys
> named in cols out of row? In other words, to get this:
> {"city" : "Hoboken", "state" : "Alaska"}

Why would you need to do that? There's nothing you can do to the second 
dictionary that you can't do to the first, so what's wrong with leaving 
the extra items in place?


From someone at microsoft.com  Sat Nov 27 22:44:55 2004
From: someone at microsoft.com (Jive)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 03:44:55 GMT
Subject: futue feature division not found  (embedded)
References: <Ix7qd.5229833$ic1.487950@news.easynews.com>
	<41a925d5.1197560430@news.oz.net>
	<8Bbqd.5245602$ic1.489539@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <WQbqd.3744406$yk.574351@news.easynews.com>

Oh I see now.  I misspelled.  But I think it failed when I spelled it right
too.  Either that or I misspelled it every time I tried it.  Oh well.  Since
there are no programs written for my application yet, I've decided just to
make future division the default.  Sorry for the bother.

J.




From carribeiro at gmail.com  Tue Nov  9 12:02:05 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 15:02:05 -0200
Subject: cherrypy/cheetah vs twisted/nevow
In-Reply-To: <u5r0p09lbn2c62aoo5oroemcdsa1lg9rps@4ax.com>
References: <slrncoc0tr.1tc7.charlotte@xs2.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.5766.1099319968.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncoumh1.p6v.charlotte@xs2.xs4all.nl>
	<u5r0p09lbn2c62aoo5oroemcdsa1lg9rps@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041109090213824c0f@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 23:11:14 -0800, Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote:
> Charlotte <charlotte at donotspam.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> >>  Hi! That was the same reason that got me hooked on CherryPy: it's
> >>  simplicity, and the fact that it seemed so 'obvious' to use.
> >
> >Yes, I continue to love it. I wonder why it is not much more used.
> 
> Do you expose the CherryPy server directly to the public, or do you run a
> proxy through Apache?

All my current work on CherryPy is for Intranet deployment. I'm using
it to deploy webapps, and I found it quite easy to work with. Very
pythonic IMHO :-)
 
> I also find CherryPy very natural and easy to understand, but I'm concerned
> about deployment issues.  Every site I do has to share the serverspace with
> other web apps.

I was also somewhat concerned about it. I have heard that some sites
are using CP for public web servers (I found CherryPy reading a blog
post where the author commented that the blog engine was based on it);
but I do not have more information to back it.

There is a company specialized in hosting Python applications, and
they do support CherryPy. Take a look at: www.python-hosting.com. I'm
not affiliated with them, but hey, they already host CherryPy
development, so I guess they deserve mention :-)

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov  1 16:29:44 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 16:29:44 -0500
Subject: sublcassing dict without losing functionality
In-Reply-To: <4aki52-fg7.ln1@valpo.de>
References: <mailman.5781.1099341134.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4aki52-fg7.ln1@valpo.de>
Message-ID: <v_xhd.2737$931.391@lakeread01>

Mathias Waack wrote:

> Steven Bethard wrote:
> 
> 
>>I'd like to subclass dict to disallow overwriting of keys,
>>something like:
> 
> 
> <snip>
> 
>>The problem is, dict doesn't appear to call __setitem__ in any of
>>the __init__ forms, so none of the following raise errors as I'd
>>like them to:
> 
> 
> <snap>
> 
>>etc.  Is there a simple way to override this behavior in dict
>>without
>>having to rewrite __init__?  There are so many cases in
>>dict.__init__ that I'm hesitant to try to reproduce them all...
> 
> 
> How about starting with UserDict (source comes with your python
> distribution) and modifying it for your needs?
> 

Well, here's one reason I can think of:

 >>> from UserDict import UserDict
 >>> issubclass(UserDict, object)
0
 >>> issubclass(dict, object)
1
 >>> d = UserDict()
 >>> type(d)
<type 'instance'>

UserDict is an old-style class. Simply converting it to use object as a 
metaclass won't get you anywhere near the speed of a true dict.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov 15 18:06:13 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:06:13 -0500
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com><20041114200132.20649.1982992758.divmod.quotient.5222@ohm><mailman.6390.1100553070.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbf8z.mirt8m687hvbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cnbcor$3lv$1@sea.gmane.org>

(Someone):
> Guido has repeatedly stated that a future version of Python will
> include static type support.  The Zope project has driven numerous past
> changes to Python.  What's funny about this?

What is sad to me is that the reporter seems to have gotten it backwards. 
To me, the point of interfaces and adapters is to support and extend the 
notion of generic programming, not undermine it.  After reading the 
Programmers' Introduction referenced in a previous post, Zope 3 seems to 
have made contributions in this regard that may well trickle into standard 
Python.

Terry J. Reedy





From Python at IvoNet.nl  Wed Nov 10 15:36:41 2004
From: Python at IvoNet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:36:41 +0100
Subject: ConfigParser - IniFile.py (0/1)
References: <nrr3p0d03b1p2pcvk7irgbm1k0nurndehj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <0lt4p0593dg4a38mbgnd6951vib3b64acn@4ax.com>

Damn I made a mistake...
The translation IS needed (so sorry ;-(()

here a functional class:



From scmsines at mail.telepac.pt  Thu Nov  4 11:35:05 2004
From: scmsines at mail.telepac.pt (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Santa_Casa_da_Miseric=F3rdia_de_Sines?=)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:35:05 -0000
Subject: dijkstra algorithm by object oriented
Message-ID: <LOEJJKEIICMBHEHNCGNEAECFCBAA.scmsines@mail.telepac.pt>

Ok. you are right.

I don't express my self in a rigth way.

I just want an idea to begin my work.

For example, how many classes do i implement.

I have an idea to create three classes, class Graph, class Vertex, class
edge.
But i don't know if i'm going in the rigth way.

This is the help i need.

Thanks.

-----Mensagem original-----
De: python-list-bounces+batista.ric=iol.pt at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+batista.ric=iol.pt at python.org]Em nome de
Peter Hansen
Enviada: quinta-feira, 4 de Novembro de 2004 15:08
Para: python-list at python.org
Assunto: Re: dijkstra algorithm by object oriented


Ricardo Batista wrote:
> I need that someone help me.
>
> I need to program the dijkstra algorithm by object oriented.
>
> I'll send my code.

Thanks, but you haven't asked a question.  Thus it sounds
as though you are simply asking for someone to make your
code work correctly.  Or maybe you're asking for someone
to convert it from the style shown to an object oriented
approach.

Either way, it sounds a lot like this is a homework question
for school, so I really hope nobody is going to just do the
work for you, since you won't learn anything that way.

Please reconsider what you are trying to do and ask a
specific question, demonstrating that you have made a
reasonable attempt to solve the problem yourself first.

-Peter
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Nov 14 19:41:13 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:41:13 -0500
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <boKdncuh1ZBxbgrcRVn-gA@giganews.com>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<boKdncuh1ZBxbgrcRVn-gA@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <L0Tld.2114$nj.1155@lakeread01>

Istvan Albert wrote:

> Will Stuyvesant wrote:
> 
>> And instead of working on the engine they should have put more work
>> into examples.  Simple tutorials.  
> 
> 
> What has been released is not Zope 3
> but Zope X3 where the X stands for eXperimental.
> 
> The way I understood it they want to showcase the
> technology and system architecture. So don't knock
> it for what is not meant to be.
> 
> Istvan.
> 
> ps. that being said I, after a few hours of fooling
> around  with it I found it to be more complicated
> than ever ... and it was not clear what is it
> that we gain from paying that price. We'll see how it
> evolves.

You managed to get it to run? I found the whole load opaque beyond 
belief, and removed it after an hour's examination.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Nov  5 13:19:33 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 10:19:33 -0800
Subject: Add a file to a compressed tarfile
In-Reply-To: <cmg85n$qg2$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
References: <pan.2004.11.05.13.52.18.538666@hotmail.com>
	<cmg85n$qg2$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20041105101135.F83C.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns) wrote:
> 
> Dennis Hotson <djdennie69 at hotmail.com> writes:
> 
> 
> >I'm currently trying to read all of the files inside the tarfile... then
> >writing them all back. Bit of a kludge, but it should work..
> 
> There isn't really any other way.  A tar file is terminated by two empty
> blocks.  In order to append to a tar file you simply append a new tar file two
> blocks from the end of the original.  If it was uncompressed you just seek
> back from the end and write but if it's compressed you can't find that point
> without decompressing[1].  In some cases a more time efficient but less space
> efficient method would be to just compress individual files in a directory and
> then tar them up before the final distribution (or whatever you do with your
> tar file)
> 
> Eddie
> 
> [1] I think, unless there's a clever way of just decompressing the last few
>     blocks.

I am not aware of any such method.  I am fairly certain gzip (and the
associated zlib) does the following:

while bytes remaining:
    reset/initialize state
    while state is not crappy and bytes remaining:
        compress portion of remaining bytes
        update state

Even if one could discover the last reset/initialization of state, one
would still need to decompress the data from then on in order to
discover the two empty blocks.

A 'resume compression friendly' algorithm would necessarily need to
describe its internal state at the end of the byte stream.  In the case
of gzip (or other similar compression algorithms), really the only way
this is reasonable is to just give an offset in the file to the last
reset/initialization.  Of course the internal state must still be
regenerated from the remaining portion of the file (which may be the
entire file), so isn't really a win over just processing the entire file
again with an algorithm that discovers when/where to pick up where it
left off before.

 - Josiah



From alban.minassian at wanadoo.fr  Fri Nov  5 02:21:46 2004
From: alban.minassian at wanadoo.fr (alban.minassian at wanadoo.fr)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 23:21:46 -0800
Subject: SystemError: com_backpatch: offset too large
References: <781f5e76.0411032335.57bf5ae4@posting.google.com>
	<cmd8ml$k1o$02$4@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <781f5e76.0411042321.1c6dc26a@posting.google.com>

>Python supports a prefix opcode to give 32-bit operand values instead of
16-bit values, but the code generator isn't smart enough to use them.

There is a solution 'force' code generator 32-bit operand values instead of
16-bit values ?

Alban


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  7 06:24:21 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 12:24:21 +0100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <418DFB01.1000800@acm.org>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<wdWdnZ-fWZxWlBDcRVn-vw@rogers.com>
	<1gmueqr.1hs16lxfjegpuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6038.1099804573.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmvis9.1p0u31qgoderwN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<418DFB01.1000800@acm.org>
Message-ID: <92700B6E-30AF-11D9-ADE7-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>


On 2004 Nov 07, at 11:37, Maurice LING wrote:

> Mainly to Alex and the rest of the adjitated community,
>
> [snip about Melbourne club scene]
>
> I do understand what you meant. There are restrictions in giving out 
> data (codes) in many cases and I seek your understanding.

Sure, if you need help understanding or fixing the behavior of 
proprietary codes, that's harder.  Nevertheless, although not a 
work-free process, it IS often productive to try and extract a small 
core of code that reproduces a performance problem.  If you can't 
reproduce the problem on a small scale (small in terms of lines of 
code, not in quantity of data), that's significant too.  Best is when 
you _can_ reproduce it, because then you do have code you can post and 
get free expert help about!

> Nevertheless, I do feel that you had unfairly made use of this case to 
> voice out your accumulated dissatisfaction with answering newbies 
> questions.

I disagree: somebody else commented on newbie-friendliness of this 
group, and my discussion was in response to their comments.

> In later parts of this thread (after your post), it was suggested that 
> my errorous impressions might have been formed by books and 
> publications (such as "learning python", as suggested)...... I do not 
> seek to place blame on anyone for my misconceptions. But considering a 
> person trying to learn a new programming language, it is common that 
> the person takes in what is presented in the face, especially from 
> books such as, "Learning python" and "Python, the complete reference".

I have not seen "learning python" mentioned in this thread -- funny, 
because I did read all posts; having been a tech reviewer for (2nd 
edition) Learning Python, I'd have been quite interested (if nothing 
else, to check if the guilty passage WAS one I had remarked on, and my 
remarks had not been taken into account by the authors, or something 
that had escaped me).  I'll googlegroup in a few days when the archive 
has had a chance to update.

>> Does this imply you now believe that the unquestioned-assumptions 
>> behind
>> your "why" questions were unfounded?
> Now I will say that Python is comparable to Java in terms of disk I/O.

This makes sense to me.  Java apparently has more traps and pitfalls, 
but once you're expert enough to bypass them, if program 
startup/shutdown is no problem (long-running program), both Java and 
Python should be able to saturate the disk bandwidth capacity, 
normally.


> All in all, through all these discussions, I can safely assert that 
> Python and Java are comparable in disk I/O. And a part of the original 
> misconceptions might have been formed possibly out-dated printed 
> materials which are still references for new python programmers. It is 
> then my concern that such misconceptions may be perpentuated.

I share your concerns in this regard.  Which is why I'll be quite 
interested to check "Learning Python" once I do get the specific 
reference on google groups.  I'm not sure what that "complete 
reference" book _IS_ -- there is probably nothing we can do about that 
one.  But good publishers CARE, and O'Reilly IS a good publisher, so, 
if Learning Python has some serious error, we can surely get it fixed 
next printing!!!

> I admit and apologise for my poor phrasing of questions which sparked 
> this chain of events. We had all lost some cool along the way and some 
> harsh words flew. Alex, I do hope you will accept my apologies. I 
> suppose I am pissed off when the flare is targetted towards myself and 
> not the situation. Anyway, my apologies...

Thanks!, and my apologies in return if the way I responded to other 
people's comments about generic newbie-friendliness were poorly worded 
and made you feel unfairly targeted for other people's mistakes.  That 
was not my intention, please be sure of that.

I _am_ interested in pursuing the issues of possible errors in Python 
books, AND I/O performance issues in Python vs Java, btw, if anybody 
wants to.  The fact that _in theory_ there shouldn't be any such 
issues, doesn't mean that some couldn't be found _in practice_ where we 
(or JVM coders;-) goofed or took justifiable but unfortunate design 
decisions...;-).


Alex



From csad at fibermail.hu  Tue Nov 16 16:20:57 2004
From: csad at fibermail.hu (Szemesi Tibor)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:20:57 +0100
Subject: [Zope] how to send email witch attachment in python
Message-ID: <200411162220.57810.csad@fibermail.hu>

Hi,

I've just read your post about sending an attachement with python script. Have 
you figured it out? I would be grateful, if you could help me out. I want to 
pass the attachement filename as argument, but I can't find the way in dtml. 
Thanks, 

Best regards, Tibor Szemesi


From sridharinfinity at gmail.com  Mon Nov  8 12:04:47 2004
From: sridharinfinity at gmail.com (Sridhar  R)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 09:04:47 -0800
Subject: Yet another Python advocacy meant for students
Message-ID: <1099933487.007129.62640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

We are the students of Anna University and would like to share our
thoughts on Python.  Here it is
http://cs.annauniv.edu/~portal/wiki/index.php/Python



From caleb1 at telkomsa.net  Tue Nov 30 21:57:19 2004
From: caleb1 at telkomsa.net (Caleb Hattingh)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:57:19 -0500
Subject: PIL interpolation access
References: <9654e9e8.0411301118.15ce43ee@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <opsia6ht1d1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>

Hi

I can't help you directly, but I am also finding im.putpixel to be  
extremely slow - as the docs recommend, can you try using the  
pixel-placing method of Draw?  This is what I am going to try for my  
application (resampling algorithms).

Thx
Caleb

On 30 Nov 2004 11:18:40 -0800, irond_will <irond_will at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Does anyone know how I might directly access PIL's bicubic
> interpolator?  I have an arbitrary array of points for which I need to
> find interpolated color values.  Unfortunately, I have no clue how to
> acceess the bicubic filter in the PIL module, and my NumArray solution
> is very slow and clunky.
>
> I've hacked together a very very very slow solution that involves the
> following steps:
>
> 1) import Image
> 2) translate Image to NumArray object (fairly slow)
> 3) find interpolated values for pixel array (breathtakingly slow)
> 4) translate interpolated color values (NumArray) into Image structure
> (way too slow)
>
> If anyone knows any way to perform items 2,3 or 4 with any facility,
> please please please respond.  The code I have now is extremely
> clunky, largely due to my lack of facility with Python, Numarray and
> PIL.  Some is below:
>
> I know I could speed up the algorithm by being smarter with vectors.
> I don't really want to mess with this, though, if there's already a
> better extant solution.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Wm.
>
> def bicub_interp(r,X):
>     from numarray import *
>     import Image
>     #r is the 2d array point in X space; this should be generalized to
> take in an array of size [2,xspan,yspan]
>     #X is the graphic array.  Its specifications are:
>     # dim 1 = x axis
>     # dim 2 = y axis
>     # dim 3 = [RGB] axis
>     # Each pixel of the X array is assumed to exist at the discrete
> intersection of integer count.
>     # For instance, the bottom left point is X[0,0,:]
>
>     c_r_x = r.shape[1]
>     c_r_y = r.shape[2]
>     c_X_x = X.shape[0]
>     c_X_y = X.shape[1]
>     Y = zeros((c_r_x, c_r_y, 3))
>     for n_x in range(c_r_x):
>         for n_y in range(c_r_y):
>            r_x = r[0,n_x,n_y]
>             r_y = r[1,n_x,n_y]
>             r_i = int(r_x)
>             r_j = int(r_y)
>             r_dx = r_x - r_i
>             r_dy = r_y - r_y
>            if ( (0 < r_i < (c_X_x-2)) & (0 < r_j < (c_X_y-2)) ):
>                 for n_m in range(-1,3):
>                     for n_n in range(-1,3):
>                         Y[n_x,n_y,:] += (X[r_i,r_j,:]
>                                          * Rfunc(n_m - r_dx)
>                                          * Rfunc(r_dy - n_n))
>     return Y
>
> def Rfunc(X):
>     ##For use in bicub_interp()
>     R = (1.0/6.0)*(1.0 * ((ramp(X+2.0))**3) -
>                    4.0 * ((ramp(X+1.0))**3) +
>                    6.0 * ((ramp(X    ))**3) -
>                    4.0 * ((ramp(X-1.0))**3))
>     return R
>
> def ramp(X):
>     if (X<0): X = 0.0
>     return X
>
> def image_to_array(im):
>
>     #This function returns an array of RGB pixel values
>     #The dimensions correspond as follows:
>     #Dim 1 = column or x value
>     #Dim 2 = row or y value
>     #Dim 3 = color value or [R,G,B] for [0, 1, 2]
>
>     #X.transpose operations can change the order of the axes if
> desired.
>    X =  
> vect_math.array_flip(transpose(reshape(array(im.getdata()),(im.size[1],im.size[0],3)),(1,0,2)),1)
>    return X
>
> def array_to_image(X):
>     #SLOW method of mapping array of spects defined in image_to_array
> into
>     #an image structure
>
>     #There is probably a faster way using im.putdata(), but I can't
> figure out how to get the array structure
>     #oriented in such a fashion as to perform a direct put.
>
>     im = Image.new('RGB',(X.shape[0], X.shape[1]))
>     X=vect_math.array_flip(X,1)
>     for x in range(0,X.shape[0]):
>         for y in range(0,X.shape[1]):
>             im.putpixel((x,y),tuple(X[x,y,:]))
>     return im



From theller at python.net  Fri Nov 26 11:38:01 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:38:01 +0100
Subject: Protecting Python source
References: <f4a45085.0411260701.5859bf43@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <is7ssh06.fsf@python.net>

adsheehan at eircom.net (Alan Sheehan) writes:

> Hi pythonistas,
>
> I am looking for methods of deploying applications with end users so
> that the python code is tamper proof. What are my options ?
>
> I understand I can supply .pyc or .pyo files but they can easily be
> reverse engineered I am told.
>
> Is it possible to load the scripts from zip files where the zip files
> are password protected ?
>
> Any other ideas ?

For py2exe created distributions, the simplest and imo most effective
thing is to specify a different extension for the source archive, maybe
app.lib instead of library.zip.  This way, there's at least no hint that
is is a zip archive.

For passwords, aren't there lots of zipfile password crackers out there?
And even in a password protected zipfile you are still able to see the
filenames iirc, and unless that has changed.

Thomas


From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Tue Nov 23 04:05:27 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:05:27 +0100
Subject: drag and drop graphics in tkinter?
In-Reply-To: <e5063e96.0411221615.2741def4@posting.google.com>
References: <e5063e96.0411221615.2741def4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41a2fb94$0$8155$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Sean McIlroy wrote:
> The subject line essentially says it all. Is there a way to do it? If
> so, where do I look to find out how? Any help will be much
> appreciated.
> 
> Thx,
> STM

I'm not quite sure I understand your question: drag and drop between what and 
what? Two windows in a Tkinter application? A file manager and a Tkinter 
application?

If you want to support drag and drop inside a Tkinter application, check the 
file Tkdnd.py in the Lib/lib-tk sub-directory of the source Python distribution.

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From holovaty at gmail.com  Sat Nov  6 13:15:39 2004
From: holovaty at gmail.com (Adrian Holovaty)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 12:15:39 -0600
Subject: Enabling/disabling module imports based on a setting
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.06.18.15.39.467028@gmail.com>

Hi, everybody,

How can I go about writing an import hook that shows or hides (i.e.,
does not allow import of) modules within a package based on a defined
setting?

Here's a basic example of what I'm trying to do, given a package
/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/hidden/ that has three modules in it
(one.py, two.py, three.py):

>>> ALLOWED_MODULES = ['one', 'two']
>>> from hidden import one
>>> from hidden import two
>>> from hidden import three
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: No module named three
>>> ALLOWED_MODULES = ['one', 'two', 'three']
>>> from hidden import three
>>> # Because 'three' is in ALLOWED_MODULES, it worked.

The ALLOWED_MODULES setting wouldn't necessarily be changed at runtime;
I did that here just to demonstrate what I'm trying to do. I imagine
the import-hook code would do something like "from settings import
ALLOWED_MODULES" and take it from there.

Is this even possible? I'm on Python 2.3, if that helps.

Thanks,
Adrian


From dialtone#$#NOSPAMMINGME#$$% at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 11:48:37 2004
From: dialtone#$#NOSPAMMINGME#$$% at gmail.com (Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 17:48:37 +0100
Subject: cherrypy/cheetah vs twisted/nevow
References: <slrncoc0tr.1tc7.charlotte@xs2.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.5766.1099319968.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.01.16.48.35.985585@gmail.com>

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 12:39:24 -0200, Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

> I'm yet to study nevow, but I'm getting more and more interested. I
> have my own approach to separation; I use to think about a third
> entity, "structure", as being independent from code & ui. The
> structure is the common part; it's the "glue" between ui and code; and
> it's the first part to be designed. I'm still experimenting with this
> concept. For what I have read so far, nevow seems to follow a similar
> approach, although I haven't seen any reference to "structure" as a
> third element in the design anywhere.

What you call structure in Nevow is a flattener IMHO. Basically:

>From a XML/HTML file Nevow builds a Stan Tree which is a simpler DOM
implementation (You can provide your own implementation of this parser/DOM
builder to Nevow, since the framework only cares about the resulting Stan Tree).
Then, when a user connects to your site, the stan tree is flattened, which means
(in nevow-speaking) that nevow iterates through the stan tree directly returning
simple strings and adapting dynamic components (directives, slots, patterns and
so on) to something that knows how to provide an html/xhtml version of the
object.

So the adapter and stan should act like your structure.

> For what I know, twisted is a huge beast, and forces you to a totally
> different programming paradigm. There is a wsgi gateway for twisted in
> the works, and that may make things simpler for pure web development,
> as it will hide some of the inherent complexity of twisted async
> design. For my own needs, I still prefer to stay with CherryPy.

I actually think that Nevow was the first Web Toolkit to provide wsgi support
built-in. And it could be used also without Twisted but as a CGI.

-- 
Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone
Now running FreeBSD 5.3-STABLE
Blog: http://vvolonghi.blogspot.com




From jbzsmith at lycos.com  Sat Nov 27 13:49:42 2004
From: jbzsmith at lycos.com (Jim Smith)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:49:42 -0700
Subject: [web_framework] Basic Question regarding web framework
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6842.1101575496.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6842.1101575496.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <XsGdnRuTlM20UTXcRVn-gg@comcast.com>

Francis Lavoie wrote:
> 
> I have some knowledge with PHP and JSP.
> 
> Secondly, I would like to receive any advice on which webframe is best.

Each of the frameworks uses a different approach and has different 
strengths and weaknesses.  It depends on which one fits you brain the 
best.  The evaluation process can take a fair amount of time.

> Is webware is a good choice?

- Webware - Works well, but requires an application server that 
communicates with the web server.  This is difficult in many hosting 
situations.

A few that I like that work in most hosting environments are:

- Quixote - A programmer's approach.  You write a program that has 
subroutines that create the web pages.  This one either fits your brain 
or it doesn't. If you view your site as a program this is good choice.

http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/quixote/

- jonpy - A better CGI.  It provides an object oriented interface for 
writing CGI programs.  I like it for its simplicity.

http://jonpy.sourceforge.net/

- Spyce - Python Server Pages.  Web pages with embedded python.  The 
ability to embed Python chunks including proper indentation is very nice.

All of these work well, it just depends your style.  If you are looking 
for something close to PHP then I think Spyce is your best choice.

Good luck,

Jim


From jelle.feringa at ezct.net  Tue Nov  9 15:02:13 2004
From: jelle.feringa at ezct.net (Jelle Feringa // EZCT / Paris)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 21:02:13 +0100
Subject: putting processes called by python shell script in background 
In-Reply-To: <cmr3rr$2fs$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20041109200135.89DD11E4002@bag.python.org>

James, Terry, 

Thanks for your constructive comments.
Let's see if we can come down to the heart of the matter, it seems to me
these are fundamental issues relevant in any shell script.

I'm using a for loop to render a serie of images, which are 
rendered | filtered | composited > to an image

The problem is that instead of a single pipeline 2 are being executed in
parallel. How can I construct the script such that another rendering isn't
started before the first is completed?
The program is executed using win32pipe.popen3() command.


Another question is that I haven't been able to find in the documentation
how I can run these processes in the background. Where can I find pythons
version of & ?

Cheers, and thanks for your input,

Jelle.




From daniel.dittmar at sap.corp  Thu Nov 18 08:32:53 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.corp (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:32:53 +0100
Subject: regex-strategy for finding *similar* words?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6541.1100780393.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <1100774319.18258.249.camel@bucket.localnet>
	<mailman.6541.1100780393.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cni8a5$fpl$1@news.sap-ag.de>

Christoph Pingel wrote:
> an interesting problem for regex nerds.
> I've got a thesaurus of some hundred words and a moderately large 
> dataset of about 1 million words in some thousand small texts. Words 
> from the thesaurus appear at many places in my texts, but they are often 
> misspelled, just slightly different from the thesaurus.

There exists the agrep project (http://www.tgries.de/agrep/), for which 
Python bindings exist. agrep (=approximate grep) allows you to specify 
the number of allowed errors.

Daniel


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Nov 13 17:17:48 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 22:17:48 GMT
Subject: Creating combination of sequences
In-Reply-To: <7dc80c2.0411131026.c4cf2e@posting.google.com>
References: <7dc80c2.0411131026.c4cf2e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <gKvld.25788$KJ6.11389@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Minho Chae wrote:
> I'm trying to create combinations of sequences.
> 
> For example, if the sequence is 'acgt' and the length is 8,
> then I would like to have 4^8 results such as
> 'aaaaaaaa', 'aaaaaaac', 'aaaaaaag', 'aaaaaaat', ... 'tttttttt'

Given the DNA base characters you use for your test case, do you
know about biopython.org?

Here is a solution to your problem.

def cycle(chars, length):
     """Generate 'length' copies of chars[0], then length of chars[1]
     then of chars[2], etc.  When chars is exhausted, start again.
     """
     counter = xrange(length)
     while 1:
         for c in chars:
             for _ in counter:
                 yield c

def once(chars, length):
     """Generate 'length' copies of chars[0], then of chars[1], etc.
     then of chars[-1].  When chars is exhausted, stop.
     """
     counter = xrange(length)
     for c in chars:
         for _ in counter:
             yield c

def all_combinations(chars, size):
     """Generate all words combinations using items from chars as
     the characters for each position.  If chars is in lexiographic
     order then so is the list of generated words.

     >>> for word in all_combinations("01", 3):
     ...     print word
     ...
     000
     001
     010
     011
     100
     101
     110
     111
     """
     if size == 0:
         return

     N = len(chars)
     gens = [once(chars, N**(size-1))]
     for i in range(size-2, -1, -1):
         gens.append(cycle(chars, N**i))

     def next(gen):
         return gen.next()

     while 1:
         yield "".join(map(next, gens))

def test():
     text = "acgt"
     n = 8
     i = -1
     for i, term in enumerate(all_combinations(text, n)):
         print term
     print (i+1), "combinations found"
     if n:
         assert (i+1) == len(text) ** n, (i, text, n)
     else:
         assert i == -1, i

if __name__ == "__main__":
     test()


				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Mon Nov 22 11:42:16 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:42:16 +0100
Subject: Text widget - insert line
In-Reply-To: <cnt1el$san$1@news.newsland.it>
References: <cnt1el$san$1@news.newsland.it>
Message-ID: <41a21527$0$8170$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Beps wrote:
> hello,
> I have got a data list.
> In my Text widget each data is between the previous and the next; so they
> are whole in a only block.
> Now:
> |--------------------
> |BushBerlusconiBlair|
> |AlpacinoDeNiroStall|
> |oneetcetcetcetcetce|
> |                   |
> |                   |
> |                   | 
> |                   |
> |-------------------|
> 
> How I have to create for each data a singular line.
> right version:
> |--------------------
> |Bush               |
> |Berlusconi         | 
> |Blair              |
> |Al Pacino          | 
> |DeNiro             |  
> |Stallone           |
> |                   |
> |                   |                                     
> |-------------------|
> Thank you very much!!!

I'm not sure I understand the question... Do you have some code generating the 
first, and you want it to generate the second? If my guess is correct, can you 
show us the code? It will surely only be a matter of inserting a '\n' at the end 
of each line, then do a textWidget.insert(END, ...), but I'm just guessing here...
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Nov 12 18:57:02 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:57:02 -0800
Subject: socket.error:(13,'Permission deied')
In-Reply-To: <41945511$1@news.seeder.net>
References: <mailman.6260.1100182796.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41945511$1@news.seeder.net>
Message-ID: <20041112155455.F8EF.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


"Austin" <austin at maxtronic.com.tw> wrote:
> now i use
> self.server = BaseHTTPServer.HTTPServer(( '', self.port ),ServerHandler)
> on fedora Core 2
> it shows permission denied, too.
> What could i do?


If you are trying to run a server on a port < 1024 on linux, you need to
be root (they are "priviledged ports").  Try running on a higher port
for testing and such, and if you /need/ to run it on port 80 (or
something else) later, ask again.

 - Josiah



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov  2 13:55:04 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 18:55:04 GMT
Subject: extending file?
References: <mailman.5780.1099340819.5135.python-list@python.org>	<8vudnfFCkdgUDBrcRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
	<41879811.40002@bellsouth.net>
	<f03f4fdf04110206455e46d101@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.5820.1099415594.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4187d21a.1444234168@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 12:13:34 -0500, Jeremy Jones <zanesdad at bellsouth.net> wrote:

><snip the whole thread>
>
>So, with everything being said that's been said, here's are two 
>questions for myself and for Chris Cioffi:
>
>1.  How difficult would it be to modify file.readline() so it would read 
>until a specific character rather than the standard end of line 
>character(s)?
>2.  What would be the best way to go about the above?
>
>If anyone has any ideas, I think we would both listen with great interest.
>
>
Maybe this general idea could give you a way to install your own custom solution
without an app-specific custom mod to file or open:

I'd like to see a file/open hook in sys (or maybe os), so that you could intercept the open
operation for specific file paths registered with the hook. E.g., if it were a
simple directory

    sys.filehook['foo.txt'] = MyFileClass # or callable factory

would cause file('foo.txt', mode, kwarg=something) to look in sys.filehook before going to the normal
file system, and return MyFileClass('foo.txt', mode, kwarg) instead of the normal file object. (I.e.,
file & open would be extended to accept *args, **kw to pass through to hooks if present)

This would allow passing custom input sequences as file-like objects to programs whose interface
is a file path string, and obviously you could use the file path arg passed through to open/file
to open a real file that you wanted to filter in some way (assuming you temporarily at least
removed the hook, or had an alias to the unhooked open function).

I don't think this would be hard to implement, but I haven't thought it through.
Gotta go vote. And other stuff...

An extension of this idea would be to allow registering patterns like
    sys.filehook['*.cfg'] = MyConfigFilter
where a mathing open would pass through the actual matched path.


Regards,
Bengt Richter


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Nov 19 16:20:41 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:20:41 -0600
Subject: Python switch for syntax checking
In-Reply-To: <obrnd.30846$jE2.25588@bignews4.bellsouth.net>
References: <obrnd.30846$jE2.25588@bignews4.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <419E63A9.2030605@colorstudy.com>

Jeff Duffy wrote:
> Hi all.
> 
>  I've been wondering why python itself doesn't provide a switch to check 
> a file for valid syntax. I know that you can currently call
> 
> python -c "import py_compile; py_compile.compile(r'MyApp.py')"

If you look at the py_compile module, if it's run as a script it will 
compile any filenames you pass to it, so you should be able to do:

   python /path/to/py_compile.py MyApp.py

And with Python 2.4 I think it will be:

   python -m py_compile MyApp.py

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From soulkiller at teleline.es  Sun Nov  7 17:05:04 2004
From: soulkiller at teleline.es (soul)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 23:05:04 +0100
Subject: problem with glutKeyboardUpFunc and glutFullScreen in pyOpenGL
Message-ID: <1099865104.2309.2.camel@Zeus>

I have a problem in pyOpenGL.I'm programing in Linux Fedora Core 2 and I
have installed the following
packets:

python 2.3.3-6
glut-3.7-12
glut-devel-3.7-12
PyOpenGL-2.0.1.09
OpenGLContext-2.0.0b1-1


If I use the functions  glutKeyboardUpFunc , I retrieve this error:


> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "plantilla.py", line 340, in ?
>     main()
>   File "plantilla.py", line 320, in main
>     glutKeyboardUpFunc(keyReleased)
> NameError: global name 'glutKeyboardUpFunc' is not defined?


Anybody can help me? 

Thanks

Soul



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Tue Nov 23 11:57:57 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 13:57:57 -0300
Subject: is int(round(val)) safe?
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7C46@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Mike Meyer]

#- It's much easier than that to get integer floating point numbers that
#- aren't correct. Consider:
#- 
#- >>> long(1e70)
#- 1000000000000000072531436381529235126158374409646521955518210
#- 1554790400L

You always can use Decimal:

>>> from decimal import *
>>> getcontext().prec = 80
>>> Decimal("1e70")
Decimal("1E+70")
>>> Decimal("1e70") + 1
Decimal("1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
0001")
>>> long(Decimal("1e70"))
10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000L

.	Facundo
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From bingham at cenix-bioscience.com  Wed Nov 10 03:18:44 2004
From: bingham at cenix-bioscience.com (Aaron Bingham)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:18:44 +0100
Subject: HELP : pystemmer win32 binary
In-Reply-To: <20041110073441.70719.qmail@web41523.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041110073441.70719.qmail@web41523.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4191CEE4.1080707@cenix-bioscience.com>

kent sin wrote:

>I urgently need a binary version of pystemmer. I am
>using python 2.3 and windows 2000.
>
>I have try to download the free MSVC toolkit. But
>don't known how to do it myself. 
>
AFAIK, the free MS compiler will not help you here, because binaries 
created with it are incompatible with MSVC 6.0, with which Python 2.3 is 
built.  You can build Python 2.3 extensions using MinGW, however.  See 
http://www.mingw.org/MinGWiki/index.php/Python%20extensions. 

One note from experience: when you run the dlltool command, give the DLL 
name, not the full path to the DLL.  Otherwise, your library will build 
OK, but will not load sucessfully.

Aaron



From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Fri Nov 19 17:24:39 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:24:39 -0500
Subject: [Plone-users] Help Please
In-Reply-To: <81E59BABCEA917C85C850FFC@[192.168.0.102]>
References: <cng9g2$rdv$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<81E59BABCEA917C85C850FFC@[192.168.0.102]>
Message-ID: <419E72A7.7020308@cloudthunder.com>

Andreas Jung wrote:

>
>
> --On Mittwoch, 17. November 2004 15:40 Uhr -0500 Dark Viper 
> <darkviper at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
>
>> How do I install plone products?  Many products seem to say that I need
>> to add an external method, what is this and how do I do it?
>
>
> Plone site -> Plone setup -> Add/Remove products...really *easy*
>
> -aj

What do I do then, it gives me a list of products that I may add if I so 
wish, but how do I install _new_ ones?


From nicogrubert at arcor.de  Thu Nov 25 11:33:29 2004
From: nicogrubert at arcor.de (Nico Grubert)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 17:33:29 +0100
Subject: Replacing words from strings except  'and' / 'or' / 'and not'
In-Reply-To: <20041125154610.28EE41E4012@bag.python.org>
References: <20041125154610.28EE41E4012@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <41A60959.3040800@arcor.de>


>import sets
>KEYWORDS = sets.Set(['and', 'or', 'not'])
>
>query = "test and testing and not perl or testit or example"
>
>def decorate(w):
>    if w in KEYWORDS:
>        return w
>    return "*%s*" % w
>
>query = " ".join([decorate(w.strip()) for w in query.split()])
>  
>
Hi Diez,

thank you very much.
That's even easier than Skip's suggestion.
Also, thanks to Thomas for the regex tip!

cheers,
Nico


From jerry.levan at eku.edu  Mon Nov 15 18:08:31 2004
From: jerry.levan at eku.edu (Jerry)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 15:08:31 -0800
Subject: Splitting a class definition into several files?
Message-ID: <46850fd1.0411151508.53dd3c53@posting.google.com>

My "main" class is getting a bit long...Is it possble to split a class definition
into several files and then import the pieces to get the whole definition?

Jerry


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Mon Nov 15 10:51:08 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 07:51:08 -0800
Subject: ZIP files
References: <808f000f.0411100805.7bff7e5d@posting.google.com>
	<qjp4p0dp83ej0e5js9n6inippgpqefb59e@4ax.com>
	<x73bzhpfpx.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<6f402501.0411120120.3f5147d6@posting.google.com>
	<1gn4y9w.3frb611oy9y8pN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<u0rvtjlw.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0411150751.146e5014@posting.google.com>

[snip..]
> I'd suggest to expand this a bit, and make it working correctly on
> windows too, where binary files must be opened with the 'b' flag:
> 
> def _write_data(filename, data, flags):
>     fileobject = open(filename, flags)
>     try: fileobject.write(data)
>     finally: fileobject.close()
> 
> def write_data(filename, data, flags="wb"):
>     _write_data(filename, data, flags)
> 
> def write_text(filename, text, flags="w"):
>     _write_data(filename, data, flags)
> 
> plus the corresponding read_data() and read_text() functions.
> Hm, add an encoding for unicode, maybe...
> Cookbook recipe, or standard lib?
> 
> Thomas


Hmm...I have a set of functions as a module - readfile, writefile,
readlines, writelines. My guess is that *everyone* has a similar
module they've written themselves. It can be a PITA cutting and
pasting the functions for a single line job sometimes. It would be a
useful addition to the standard lib.

Regards,

Fuzzy


From fgranger at fgranger.com  Sun Nov 21 16:14:33 2004
From: fgranger at fgranger.com (Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Granger)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 22:14:33 +0100
Subject: Seek HTML cleanup utilities
In-Reply-To: <51fe74e4.0411210826.35f22a00@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <BDC6C3C9.2D181%fgranger@fgranger.com>

Le 21/11/04 17:26, ??Jon Roland?? <jon.roland at constitution.org> a ?crit?:

> I could go on, but this provides a sample.

I have a side project of a typography correcting modules for html file. I
would be interrested in the rest of your list ....
-- 
Fran?ois Granger
 fgranger at fgranger.com
+ 33 6 61 36 96 17 (mobile)
+ 33 1 47 35 00 16 (home)




From philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net  Sat Nov  6 15:38:55 2004
From: philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 14:38:55 -0600
Subject: parsing pyton code
Message-ID: <200411061438.55887.philippecmartin@sbcglobal.net>

Hi,

I'm looking for a very simple way to figure out if a line of code requires 
further lines of code ex: for i in range(10): So far I have found the 
following trick that seem dangerous to me since it assumes the string 'EOF' 
exists in the exception message.

Do I have the right to do this ?




import compiler
import string
try:
    compiler.parse('for i in range(10):')
except SyntaxError, (val1, val2):
    print val1
    print val2
    l_eof = False
    l = string.split(val1,' ')
    for l_c in l:
        if l_c == 'EOF':
            l_eof = True
            break
    if l_eof == True:
        print 'YES'


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  1 03:06:10 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:06:10 +0200
Subject: OT: Ruby programmers use Python
References: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>
	<sqednYEeQbsozBncRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5728.1099211579.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.31.18.43.39.352636@large.net>
	<ZoydnWBxGZHHDxjcRVn-jg@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <1gmkh2e.14hbem8agi1ieN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

A.M. Kuchling <amk at amk.ca> wrote:
   ...
> can just write plain vanilla HTML, being sure to put DIV elements and ID
> attributes in the right places, and then style the pages with CSS.  Quixote
> is betting that pure HTML + CSS is the way of the future.

Sounds like a pretty safe bet to me, in general terms.  I'm not quite
sure how fully a 'plain vanilla HTML' page can be controlled,
looks-wise, with CSS only, but no doubt as generations of CSS succeed
each other the trend is up (though I don't think it's asymptotically
going to 100%, but that's a different issue;-).


Alex


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 10:49:36 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:49:36 -0500
Subject: date diff calc
In-Reply-To: <coi1vh$rkv$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
References: <K_-dnRIyHJPs_DbcRVn-jg@is.co.za>
	<16811.29264.547058.669652@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.6899.1101784379.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<coi1vh$rkv$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <1f7befae04113007497a2c7b14@mail.gmail.com>

[Skip Montanaro]
>>> I think inputs from strings would be much more common.

[Tim Peters]
>> Me too, although it's a bottomless pit.
>>
>> guess-6-intended-meanings-for-1/2/3-before-breakfast-ly y'rs

[Peter Hansen]
> I think Skip was intending that the format string be mandatory,
> to avoid such ambiguity.  At least, that's what I inferred from
> his example, where the format string came before the date string:
>
>   start = datetime.date.fromstring("%Y-%m-%d", "2004-11-25")

It's still a bottomless pit -- ask Brett, who implemented the Python
strptime <wink>.  But now that we *have* a portable strptime
implementation, perhaps it would be OK to teach datetime about it.

OTOH, is that what people really want?  For all I know,
rfc822.getdate() or rfc822.getdate_tz() are what's really wanted, or
maybe some DWIM thing like Zope's date guessers.

Does anyone want any of those enough to write the code, tests, and
docs?  If so, the first person to do so will probably win the debate
...


From pint-bounces at lists.bell-labs.com  Mon Nov  8 20:27:08 2004
From: pint-bounces at lists.bell-labs.com (pint-bounces at lists.bell-labs.com)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 20:27:08 -0500
Subject: The results of your email commands
Message-ID: <mailman.128.1099963628.12257.pint@lists.bell-labs.com>

The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your
original message.

- Results:
    Ignoring non-text/plain MIME parts

- Unprocessed:
    Found virus WORM_LOVGATE.Z in file document.pif (in document.zip)
    The file document.zip is moved to /var/quarantine/virus/virOEAvdrxaG.
    This is a machine-generated message, please do not reply via e-mail. If you have questions, please contact the Lucent Help Desk at +1 888 300 0770.
    ---------------------------------------------------------

- Done.

-------------- next part --------------
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: python-list at python.org
Subject: hello
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 09:17:45 +0800
Size: 2830
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20041108/efbadc58/attachment.mht>

From kendall at monkeyfist.com  Sat Nov  6 12:10:19 2004
From: kendall at monkeyfist.com (Kendall Clark)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 12:10:19 -0500
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <20041106171019.GA11521@monkeyfist.com>

On Fri, Nov 05, 2004 at 05:58:09AM +0000, Maurice LING wrote:
> This may be a dumb thing to ask, but besides the penalty for dynamic 
> typing, is there any other real reasons that Python is slower than Java?

I favor a different kind of explanation than the ones usually offered
here. While the degree to which Python is "slower than Java" will
depend in large part on what you're trying to do with both of them,
it's also the case that Java leads Python by probably $1 billion
dollars, if not more, in JIT compiler R&D.

The main reason Java is "faster" is because it's been backed by Sun
and IBM, for use in enterprise applications, on some of the biggest
hardware available, and they've put massive R&D effort (i.e., money)
into making it faster.

I suspect if MS had chosen Python instead of C#, and then spent a few
billion and 5 to 10 years of R&D effort, people would be asking why
Perl is so much slower than Python.

Common Lisp is fast because it's had similar R&D effort, spread out
over 40 years or so, going back to the first Lisps. Same goes for
Smalltalk. Java is fast because Sun & IBM and others decided it had to
be. Python is slower because the Python community is incomparably
smaller, less well-heeled, and mostly doesn't care too much about
performance.

There are *technical* reasons for all of this, but I think those
reasons exist largely because of non-technical, social reasons.

My two cents. :>

Best,
Kendall Clark
-- 
Sometimes it's appropriate, even patriotic, to be ashamed
of your country. -- James Howard Kunstler


From scytale at gmail.com  Fri Nov 12 11:37:35 2004
From: scytale at gmail.com (t scytale)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:37:35 -0800
Subject: modifying static (local) method variables
Message-ID: <5ef48b8004111208372b048838@mail.gmail.com>

i am using a mutable default paramater to simulate a static method variable.
i notice that 
- assigning to the var inside the method causes it to return to the
default value at each call.
- appending to the var gives the expected behaviour (the value is
preserved to the next call

why is this?

def GetCachedVal(val=[]):
  print 'start val:', val
  if val:
    return val
  print  'initializing'
  val = TimeConsumingSetup()           # assignment
  return val

>> GetCachedVal()
start val: []
initializing
>> print val
[<eDatabase instance at 0x87>, <eHandle instance at 0x8755e>]
>>GetCachedVal()
start val: []
initializing
>>print val
[<eDatabase instance at 0x87>, <eHandle instance at 0x8755e>]


def GetCachedVal(val=[]):
  print 'start val:', val
  if val:
    return val
  print  'initializing'
  val += TimeConsumingSetup()           # append
  return val

>> GetCachedVal()
start val: []
initializing
>> print val
[<eDatabase instance at 0x87>, <eHandle instance at 0x8755e>]
>>GetCachedVal()
start val: [<eDatabase instance at 0x87>, <eHandle instance at 0x8755e>]
>>print val
[<eDatabase instance at 0x87>, <eHandle instance at 0x8755e>]


t


From nick at craig-wood.com  Fri Nov 19 09:30:04 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 14:30:04 GMT
Subject: mkstemp on pre-2.3 Python
References: <419d15b2@usenet01.boi.hp.com>
Message-ID: <slrncps0o6.7bs.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

djw <donald.welch at hp.com> wrote:
>  Hi, c.l.p'ers-
> 
>  I working on some code that creates a temporary file on Linux. I found some
>  code that the BDFL posted previously on the newsgroup and adapted it for my
>  use. I can't get the "pre-2.3" code to work.
> 
> 
>  try:
>      make_temp_file = tempfile.mkstemp # 2.3+
>  except AttributeError: 
>      def make_temp_file( suffix='', prefix='', dir='', text=False ): #pre-2.3
>          path = tempfile.mktemp( suffix ) 
>          fd = os.open( path, os.O_WRONLY|os.O_CREAT|os.O_EXCL, 0700 )
>          os.unlink( path )
>          return ( os.fdopen( fd, 'w+b' ), path ) 
> 
> 
> 
>  Here's the error:
> 
>  File "utils.py", line 583, in make_temp_file
>      return ( os.fdopen( fd, 'w+b' ), path )
>  OSError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument
> 
>  Anybody have any ideas on what I am doing wrong?

Replace the os.O_WRONLY with os.O_RDWR and all will be fine

>>> import tempfile, os
>>> suffix=""
>>> path = tempfile.mktemp( suffix )
>>> fd = os.open( path, os.O_RDWR|os.O_CREAT|os.O_EXCL, 0700 )
>>> f = os.fdopen( fd, 'w+b' )
>>> f
<open file '<fdopen>', mode 'w+b' at 0xb7de7a60>
>>> print >>f, "Hello"
>>> f.seek(0)
>>> f.read()
'Hello\n'
>>> f.close()

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov  8 07:53:54 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 07:53:54 -0500
Subject: Simple thread pools
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5910.1099581710.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5910.1099581710.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <g5Kjd.13320$931.187@lakeread01>

Jacob Friis wrote:

> I have built a script inspired by a post on Speno's Pythonic Avocado:
> http://www.pycs.net/users/0000231/weblog/2004/01/04.html#P10
> 
> I'm setting NUM_FEEDERS to 1000.
> Is that crazy?
> Are there a better solution?
> 
> Thanks,
> Jacob

All discussionso on threading apart, you might find it's better to build 
a zip or tar on the server and do a single transfer, if that's a 
practial colution ot the problem.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Nov 26 00:41:10 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 21:41:10 -0800
Subject: Few things
In-Reply-To: <5c882bb5.0411251641.6177ee9d@posting.google.com>
References: <5c882bb5.0411251641.6177ee9d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041125204315.FA26.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile) wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> here are a four more questions (or suggestions) for the language
> (probably people have already discussed some of/all such things:
> 
> I've seen the contracts for Python:
> http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/
> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0316.html
> They look interesting and nice, how Python developers feel about
> accepting something like this in the standard language? (Maybe they
> are a bit complex).

Decorators can do this without additional syntax.  Think @accepts and
@returns.


> I think it can be useful a little stat standard module that computes
> permutations, combinations, median (quickselect), etc. There is even a
> C implementation (of most of them):
> http://probstat.sourceforge.net/
> Probably some Win users can appreciate to have this already compiled
> (and built in).

Having a 'faq' for permutation and combination generation would be 99%
of the way there.  Quickselect, really, doesn't gain you a whole lot. 
Sure, it's a log factor faster to select a median, but many algorithms
involving selecting medians (at least the ones that I run into in CS
theory) end up repeatedly (logn) time selecting the 'kth' smallest
element (varying k's), where sorting would actually run slightly faster.

As for the rest of it, be specific with what you would want to be in
this mythical 'statistics' module ('stat' is already used for the
filesystem stat module).  A single-pass average/standard deviation has
already been discussed for such a module, as well as give me all the
k-smallest items of this sequence, etc., but was tossed by Raymond
Hettinger due to the limited demand for such a module.


> A command like this:
> print 0x9f, 054135
> This prints an hex and octal. I think the syntax for the hex is a bit
> ugly; and the syntax for the octal looks just dangerous (and wrong) to
> me.

Internally those values are Python integers, there would need to be a
special way to tag integers as being originally hex or octal.  Or the
pyc would need to store the fact that it was originally one of those
other methods specifically for the print statement.

The preferred way for doing such things (printing some internal type via
some special method) is via string interpolation:
print "0x%x 0%o"%(0x9f, 054135)

Ugly or not, "Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules." 
Don't hold your breath for print doing anything special with integers.


> In some python source codes that I'm finding around, I find things
> like:
> def foo():
>     '''This is just a
> silly text'''
> ...
> 
> Because:
> def foo():
>     '''This is just a
>        silly text'''
> print foo.__doc__
> 
> Outputs:
> This is just a
>        silly text
> 
> I think a better syntax for such multiline strings can be something
> like: remove from all the beginnings of the lines successive to the
> first one a number of spaces equal to the position of ''' in the
> soucecode.
> With this sintax such print outputs:
> This is just a
> silly text
> 
> Note: even less indentation of the lines successive the first one can
> be simply ignored:
> def foo2():
>     '''This is just a
>      silly text'''
> print foo.__doc__
> 
> Outputs:
> This is just a
> silly text

It is a wart.  An option is to use:
def foo():
    '''\
This is just a
silly text'''

Me, I just don't use docstrings. I put everything in comments indented
with the code.  I have contemplated writing an import hook to do
pre-processing of modules to convert such comments to docstrings, but I
never actually use docstrings, so have never written the hook.


 - Josiah



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov 10 10:54:04 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:54:04 -0500
Subject: File Unlocking in __del__ does not work
References: <c498bc9a.0411100344.34703bfa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cmtdik$m1e$1@sea.gmane.org>


"schwerdy" <schwerdy at web.de> wrote in message 
news:c498bc9a.0411100344.34703bfa at posting.google.com...
> #***************************************************
> import sys, time
> from fcntl import *
> class Log(object):
>    """
>    Very Simple Logger Class
>    """
>    def __init__(self, path):
>        self.logfile = open(path, 'a')
>        flock(self.logfile, LOCK_EX | LOCK_NB) # throw exept. if file
> locked
>
>    def write(self, msg):
>        self.logfile.write(time.strftime('%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S : ') +
> str(msg) + '\n')
>        self.logfile.flush()
>
>    def __del__(self):
>        flock(self.logfile, LOCK_UN)
>        self.logfile.close()
>
>
> l = Log('/var/log/myagi.log')
> log = l.write
>
> log("bla")
> #***************************************************
>
> When I run the script, python says "Exception exceptions.TypeError:
> "'NoneType' object is not callable" in <bound method Log.__del__ of
> <__main__.Log object at 0x401e238c>> ignored"
> It seems, as in the __del__ method, the flock function has gone (a
> debug line as "print flock" in the __del__ method prints "None").
>
> does anybody know what is going on?

A wild guess: your quoted script does not explicitly delete instance l and 
method log (which contains an bound reference to the same object). 
Therefore, the object will only be deleted and __del__ invoked as part of 
the shutdown cleanup process.  In the absence of explicitly registered 
cleanup functions, cleanup happens in arbitrary implementation and 
version-specific order.  It just happens that flock is None'ed before l. 
So what happens if you do do an explicit 'del l,log' at the end of your 
script?

Note: on Jython, even explicit delete is not enough to trigger the __del__ 
method.  Better to rename __del__ as 'close' and call l.close() to release 
the resources.

Terry J. Reedy





From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Nov  2 08:47:31 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 08:47:31 -0500
Subject: global variable not assigned, newbie question
In-Reply-To: <dd1d9b4f.0411010651.27e4ca35@posting.google.com>
References: <dd1d9b4f.0411010651.27e4ca35@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8vudnfZCkdhuEhrcRVn-jA@powergate.ca>

Jean-Daniel Gamache wrote:
> Hi! here's a python newbie question ...
> why is my variable (myNum) not assigned the value 10 ???
[snip example]

http://www.python.org/doc/faq/programming.html#how-do-you-set-a-global-variable-in-a-function

This and many other questions are answered in the Frequently
Asked Questions (FAQ) list.

Also make sure you've read the tutorial 
http://docs.python.org/tut/tut.html as it (I expect) would
answer that question as well.

-Peter


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 11:55:48 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:55:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmp6xu.zmiw6gs3250sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5890.1099529745.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmpyz8.11h86a71kjmdttN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041104T174546-154@post.gmane.org>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit <at> yahoo.com> writes:
> 
> Suppose for example that you would like your OS to be able to load
> executable code from disk into memory and execute it.  Suppose you would
> like it to be able to read some configuration parameters from disk and
> set its own internal data structures accordingly.  At one level, as it
> goes to disk or comes back from there, you have arrays of bytes.  But in
> memory, you want functions that can be called appropriately (a device
> driver residing in a module) or data structures which, differently from
> an array of byte, DO have structure -- for example, a partition table
> for a disk, with information to specific filesystem drivers as to what
> partition is to be treated in what way.

I'm sorry, I guess I still don't understand this example.  It sounds like you're
just going between untyped (array of bytes) and typed (functions, data
structures, etc.)  I'm not seeing how you're, for example, casting a function to
a data structure, or a data structure of one type to a data structure of another
type.

Anything can (and sometimes should) be treated just as an array of bytes, in an
analogous method to how in an OO language with a base class Object, sometimes
it's appropriate to treat a given instance of a class as an Object, rather than
it's particular subclass of Object.  I wouldn't consider treating function, data
structures, etc. as arrays of bytes (or vice versa) as something that takes
advantage of "weak-typing", but rather something that takes advantage of the
ability to treat data as untyped.

Hopefully this clarified my confusion and when you get a chance, you can try to
explain it to me again?  Thanks,

Steve



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 13:02:25 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 18:02:25 GMT
Subject: keyword argument for min/max
In-Reply-To: <bdVqd.169192$HA.25083@attbi_s01>
References: <bdVqd.169192$HA.25083@attbi_s01>
Message-ID: <RA2rd.421623$wV.75897@attbi_s54>

Steven Bethard wrote:
> So I've been playing around with trying to add a keyword argument to min 
> and max that works similarly to the one for sorted.  It wasn't too hard 
> actually, but it does raise a few questions about proper handling of 
> keyword arguments.

Sorry to reply to my own post, but I thought of another question about 
adding this feature.  Should the following work?

.>>> max((2, 'a'), (1, 'b'), key=operator.itemgetter(1))

That is, should you be able to specify a 'key' argument as a keyword 
parameter after a list of positional arguments (to be min/maxed).

Steve


From novak at dionysus.ucolick.org  Wed Nov 17 20:51:34 2004
From: novak at dionysus.ucolick.org (Greg Novak)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 17:51:34 -0800
Subject: Emacs, PyX, and Python together result in a dead Python
Message-ID: <m3oehvvs9l.fsf@dionysus.ucolick.org>

I realize that this is a pretty esoteric question, but I'm not even
getting any traction on it by myself.  I believe that the problem has
to do with signal handling for programs run underneath Python, and how
these signals may (or may not) percolate up to higher levels, which
for me means Emacs.

PyX is a Python package for drawing graphs
(http://pyx.sourceforge.net).  It runs TeX behind the scenes to
produce output.

When I run python as an inferior process under Emacs and try to use
PyX, I get a mysterious error:

import pyx
g=pyx.graph.graphxy(width=8)
g.plot(pyx.graph.data.list([[1,2],[2,4],[3,9]],x=1,y=2))
g.writeEPSfile('gsn');

results in:

Process Python hangup

and the Python process is dead.  My suspicion is that this has
something to do with the fact that PyX is running TeX behind the
scenes, but I can't confirm that.  Another useful piece of information
is that if I run a plain old inferior shell under Emacs and then run
Python, it works.  Perusing the python-mode.el, shell-mode.el, and
comint.el source files didn't produce an obvious reason for the
different behavior.  Nor can I find the snippet of code that's
actually producing this error message.

I'm running emacs 21.3, the stock python-shell.el mode, and PyX 0.7.
I run Python with 'M-x py-shell'

If anyone sees fit to reply to this, please copy to my e-mail address
as well, novak at ucolick.org.

Many thanks,
Greg


From iketo2 at netscape.net  Sun Nov 28 21:28:42 2004
From: iketo2 at netscape.net (Isaac To)
Date: 29 Nov 2004 10:28:42 +0800
Subject: The use of :
References: <89cc6e1f.0411251858.40b6bbc7@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.26.08.33.40.219098@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<89cc6e1f.0411260953.4b6b98e7@posting.google.com>
	<zyUpd.6$d74.2@read3.inet.fi>
	<41aa1abb$0$25542$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<30ukhmF357ptdU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<Avpqd.55491$Ni.1918466@twister1.libero.it>
	<pan.2004.11.29.05.11.43.180223@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6859.1101676234.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.29.06.12.15.87220@jerf.org>
	<30verqF35jijsU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <87u0r95qxx.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Greg" == Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> writes:

    >> The only punctuation you *need* is whitespace. See Forth

    Greg> You don't even need that... see FORTRAN. :-)

And you don't need everything else either... see this.

                 http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/

:-)

Regards,
Isaac.


From bradtilley at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 10:02:27 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:02:27 -0500
Subject: module imports and memory usage
Message-ID: <coi223$ahu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

When memory usage is a concern, is it better to do:

from X import Y

or

import X

Also, is there a way to load and unload modules as they are needed. I 
have some scripts that sleep for extended periods during a while loop 
and I need to be as memory friendly as possible. I can post a detailed 
script that currently uses ~ 10MB of memory if anyone is interested.

Thanks,
Brad


From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Mon Nov  1 11:36:31 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 17:36:31 +0100
Subject: Matching Control Characters
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5771.1099326293.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5771.1099326293.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2un70fF2arj89U1@uni-berlin.de>

Greg Lindstrom wrote:
> Hello-
> 
> I have a text file generated on a HP-9000 running HP-Unix with embedded
> control characters and would like to read it in, modify it, and write it out
> in PDF format.  The new page character is control-L which I can match with
> regular expressions as
> 
> /^M    (build using control-Q control-M)
> 
> but when I attempt to use this to match the string in the program using
> 
> if re.match('^M', input_line):    # using control-Q control-M
>    # issue a page feed
> 
> it will not match (no new pages are generated).
> 
> I am opening and reading the input file in binary mode.  Anyone see what I'm
> doing wrong?

Use the escape for Control-M: \x0D

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Nov  2 11:40:18 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 08:40:18 -0800
Subject: Newbie question
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.02.08.46.20.216993@gmx.de>
References: <783d0f8c.0411012330.4172d1d4@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.02.08.46.20.216993@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <20041102083027.F7CC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Alexander Stante <mrpac at gmx.de> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 23:30:17 -0800, Uday wrote:
> 
> > My problem is that I need to dynamically generate a unique 
> > variable within a for loop in Python. The name of the variable
> > should be appended by the index of the loop. 
> I think exec is what you want:
> 
> for x in range(10):
>     exec "var_%d = %d" % (x, x)
> 
> This creates var_0 ... var_9 and assigns them the value of the index. exec
> executes strings which can be dynamically created at runtime. Okay, I
> guess performance isn't very well but if it is not crucial, who cares?

While exec works here, using exec as a hammer to do anything that
requires changing names isn't necessary. Being that the original poster
just wants to create and access certain names, a dictionary is perfect.

d = {}
for i in xrange(10):
    d['var_name_%i'%i] = #whatever



Thomas Guettler <guettli at thomas-guettler.de> wrote:
> the best solution is to use a dictionary:
[snip]

Agreed.

> or you can do this:
> locals()["task_id"] # locals gives you a dictionary of the local vars

Kind of a hammer, but it does work.  Though considering that one has to
later access those variables, he would then need to use locals()[varname],
which is no better than just using a dictionary in the first place.

> If you have a object you can use getattr()
> 
> # myobj.task_id
> getattr(myobj, "task_id")

Don't forget setattr().  This pair is basically what the original poster
asked for.


 - Josiah



From limodou at gmail.com  Tue Nov  9 09:25:24 2004
From: limodou at gmail.com (limodou)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 22:25:24 +0800
Subject: ANN: Released Pixies 0.1
In-Reply-To: <3w_jd.24314$Es2.532443@twister2.libero.it>
References: <3w_jd.24314$Es2.532443@twister2.libero.it>
Message-ID: <505f13c04110906251e226ada@mail.gmail.com>

Wonderful!

But I tried all samples, only normal.fo is successful, others are failed. 

My platform is windows xp, and report lab lib is 1.19.


On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 07:40:47 GMT, Matteo Merli
<matteo.merli at studenti.unipr_punto_it> wrote:
> 
> Pixies is a formatter that convert XSL-FO documents to PDF. It is written in
> Python and is particularly focused on the production of PDF files from
> DocBook documents.
> 
> This is the very first release of the program that at this point only
> support a small subset of the XSL-FO specification.
> 
> It uses ReportLab (www.reportlab.org) to write PDF files.
> 
> Home Page:
> http://merlimat.net/software/pixies
> 
> Sources :
> http://download.berlios.de/pixies/pixies-0.1.tar.bz2
> 
> Matteo
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list
> 
>        Support the Python Software Foundation:
>        http://www.python.org/psf/donations.html
> 


-- 
I like python! 
My Blog: http://www.donews.net/limodou
New Maillist: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/python-cn


From philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net  Wed Nov 10 13:39:11 2004
From: philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:39:11 -0600
Subject: BDB frontend problem
Message-ID: <200411101239.11760.philippecmartin@sbcglobal.net>

Hi,

I have a tkinter frontend to BDB and it works OK except that when I debug a 
script that imports another one which make some extentive minidom processing, 
my PC gets on its knees since the overwritten "user_line" method gets called 
a hundred billion times before I reach my break point .... make my debugger 
prettty useless.

Is there anyway to keep bdb from going into the /usr/lib/...../whatever.py and 
just stick to certain files (i.e, look at the lib modules as pyc only and not 
call me back with a stack frame everytime) ?

Thanks,

Philippe


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Tue Nov 30 14:09:28 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:09:28 -0800
Subject: pre-PEP generic objects
In-Reply-To: <slrncqoio4.1uu.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
References: <a8Oqd.110119$V41.14593@attbi_s52>
	<slrncqoio4.1uu.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <41acd7fb$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Nick Craig-Wood wrote:
> class Hash:
>     def __init__(self, **kwargs):
>         for key,value in kwargs.items():
>             setattr(self, key, value)
>     def __getitem__(self, x):
>         return getattr(self, x)
>     def __setitem__(self, x, y):
>         setattr(self, x, y)

You can simplify this:
class Hash(object):
     def __init__(self, **kwargs):
         for key,value in kwargs.items():
             setattr(self, key, value)
     __getitem__ = getattr
     __setitem__ = setattr

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Fri Nov  5 10:54:44 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 08:54:44 -0700
Subject: Simple thread pools
In-Reply-To: <418B87FF.5020302@debpro.webcom.dk>
References: <418A4900.7020304@debpro.webcom.dk>	<20041104102722.F815.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<mailman.5957.1099646551.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmfs68$9vc$02$2@news.t-online.com>
	<418B87FF.5020302@debpro.webcom.dk>
Message-ID: <418BA244.1030907@pythonapocrypha.com>

Jacob Friis wrote:
>> Things as maximum number of file descriptors and generally speaking IO
>> operations and their limits are matters of the underlying OS, not of the
>> programming language itself. So show us a way in another language, and 
>> then
>> we can tell you how to do that in python.
> 
> 
> I need to download 150000 files several times every day.
> How would you solve that?

Best bet is to use an asynchronous socket library (asyncore / asynchat / twisted 
/ etc). On Linux it's fairly easy to increase the number of file descriptors 
allowed per process, and if you manage your connections appropriately you can 
have thousands of simultaneous open connections.

Elsewhere I noticed that you said the average object size is only around 15k, so 
  once you have the basic system working, you can probably improve performance 
by focusing on things that lower transaction overhead - DNS caching, reusing 
connections to servers (and pipelining HTTP requests to those servers), etc., 
but I wouldn't bother with that right away - better to get the core of the 
stable and scalable first.

HTH,
-Dave


From pierre.barbier at cirad.fr  Thu Nov  4 03:48:01 2004
From: pierre.barbier at cirad.fr (Pierre Barbier de Reuille)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 09:48:01 +0100
Subject: question for sys.stdout
In-Reply-To: <cmcpg0$a5k$1@netnews.hinet.net>
References: <cmcpg0$a5k$1@netnews.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <4189ec52$0$6282$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

If you want to "rewrite" a "stdout" object, just write a file-like 
object and replace sys.stdout !

Then don't care about the old stdout anymore ... it's a pipe and it 
won't bother you anymore :)

Another way to do so is the "C" way ... ie. using os.dup2. The advantage 
of the "dup2" method is the replacement of the stdout of the whole 
program (so, if you use external functions writing in stdout it will 
work), but the drawback is you need to have a real file (ie. file, pipe, 
...)

Depends on what you want to use :)

Leon a ?crit :
> "stdout" is file object, it open mode is "w"
> and it have a close() fuction.....
> while it run close(), how to reopen it
> 
> because I want to do rewrite it
> stdout content update
> 
> 


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Nov  5 04:55:12 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 10:55:12 +0100
Subject: recursion in __cmp__
References: <3da35075.0411050045.379477af@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cmfikb$thu$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Victor Safronovich wrote:

> please comment this
> Python 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
>>>> class A:
> def?__cmp__(self,?other):
> print?'%s|%s'?%(`self`,?`other`)
> return?cmp(self,?other)
> 
>>>> a = A()
>>>> cmp(a,A())
 
Does it get clearer with the following reimplementation of cmp()?

>>> class A:
...     def __cmp__(self, other):
...             return mycompare(self, other)
...
>>> def mycompare(a, b):
...     try:
...             return a.__cmp__(b)
...     except AttributeError:
...             return mycompare(id(a), id(b))
...
>>> mycompare(A(), A())
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in mycompare
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in __cmp__
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in mycompare
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in __cmp__
  [snip]
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in __cmp__
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in mycompare
RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded
>>>

Peter



From a.a.kanare at swan.ac.uk  Thu Nov 25 08:07:30 2004
From: a.a.kanare at swan.ac.uk (abhay)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 13:07:30 -0000
Subject: I Need a Python Mentor
Message-ID: <co4lkl$8i9$1@news.swman.net.uk>

Hi,
I have just ended learning to program in Python using the book "Programming
in Python" by Mark Lutz.
But to my dismay there are no excercises or programming projects in the
book. I'm seeking for a good programming project to be implemented in
python. Do you have any projects to share, I'm ready to spend my free time
over it to learn the best.

Thanks for advice and help in advance.

Abhay




From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 22 22:53:03 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 03:53:03 GMT
Subject: unicode question
References: <qkLnd.22919$jf.19362@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<419fc9b9$0$198$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<419ff7cd_3@newspeer2.tds.net> <41A061E1.8050203@v.loewis.de>
	<KH_nd.23139$jf.19287@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<41a0ab62$0$151$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<Y3hod.23808$jf.11140@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<41a1d80d.718896828@news.oz.net>
	<41a27514$0$179$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <41a28c3d.765024687@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:24:09 +0100, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?= <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:

>Bengt Richter wrote:
>> So, bottom line, as Wolfgang effectively asked by his example, why does print try to coerce
>> the __str__ return value to ascii on the way to the ouput encoder, when there is encoding info
>> in the unicode object that it is happy to defer reencoding of for sys.stdout.encoding?
>
>[See my other posting:]
>Because print invokes str() on its argument, unless the argument is
>already a byte string (in which case it prints it directly), or a
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^-- effectively an assumption that
bytestring.decode('some_unknown_encoding').encode(sys.stdout.encoding)
has already been done, it seems (I'm not arguing against).

>Unicode string (in which case it encodes it with the stream encoding).
>It is str(y) that fails, not the printing.
>
Yes, I think my turgid post did demonstrate that, among other things ;-)

So how about changing print so that it doesn't blindly use str(y), but instead
first tries to get y.__str__() in case the latter returns unicode?
Then print y can succeed the way print y.__str__() does now.

The same goes for str.__mod__ -- it apparently knows how to deal with '%s'% unicode(y)
so why shouldn't '%s'%y benefit when y.__str__ returns unicode?

I.e., str doesn't know that printing and '%s' can use unicode to good effect
if it available, so for print and str.__mod__ blindly to use str() intermediately
throws away an opportunity to do better ISTM.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From peter at somewhere.com  Thu Nov 18 07:46:21 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:46:21 +0100
Subject: regex-strategy for finding *similar* words?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6541.1100780393.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <1100774319.18258.249.camel@bucket.localnet>
	<mailman.6541.1100780393.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cni5mo$d12$1@swifty.westend.com>

Christoph Pingel schrieb:
> Hi all,
> 
> an interesting problem for regex nerds.
> I've got a thesaurus of some hundred words and a moderately large 
> dataset of about 1 million words in some thousand small texts. Words 
> from the thesaurus appear at many places in my texts, but they are often 
> misspelled, just slightly different from the thesaurus.

You could set up a list of misspelling cases, scan a word for it e.g.
citti and turn it into a regex by applying suitable misspelling cases
But this is cumbersome. It is probably better to use a string distance
defined by the least number of operations (add,delete, replace, exchange)
to map one string onto another.

Search for '"Levenshtein distance" python' and find e.g.

http://trific.ath.cx/resources/python/levenshtein/

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Wed Nov  3 19:34:33 2004
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 00:34:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com> <2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmbtep$aen$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
> (1)  A language is "weakly-typed" if it allows code to take a block of memory
...
> Definition 1 is the definition most commonly used in Programming
> Languages literature, and allows a language to be called
> "weakly-typed" based only on the language definition.  However, for
> all intents and purposes, it is only applicable to statically typed
> languages; no one on the list could come up with a dyamically typed
> language that allowed bit-reinterpretation.

Assembly language.  The types of values are implied by what
instructions you use.


From bounces at foo.org  Sat Nov 20 15:31:37 2004
From: bounces at foo.org (Dan)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 20:31:37 GMT
Subject: Identifying exceptions that can be raised
In-Reply-To: <cnmcek$rju$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
References: <cVdnd.7986$tS4.4873@trndny09>
	<mailman.6579.1100837821.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<6Rknd.6671$%M4.4203@trndny08>
	<cnmcek$rju$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <JQNnd.2125$hJ6.1416@trndny01>

Peter Hansen wrote:
 > Nope.  That's that nasty ol' Java thinkin'. ;-)

Never used Java.  Mostly just C.  All in all, I like these exceptions 
better than C's error codes, because I mostly just write trivial little 
programs that would just print a message and exit if I detected an 
error--and exceptions do that automatically with no active checking on 
my part.

But the thought occured to me that if I _did_ want to handle exceptions, 
I would have no idea what the possibilities even were.

 > All that said, you do sometimes find yourself pondering
 > what exceptions a given function might raise and which
 > you *do* want to handle properly.

Exactly.

/Dan

-- 
dedded at verizon dot net


From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Tue Nov  2 04:50:04 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 09:50:04 GMT
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>

>  It seems that you mistake strong/weak typing with static/dynamic typing - a

sorry, i don't think so.

>  completely different beast.
>  
>  Python is in fact strong typed - in opposition to php or perl or even C,
>  this won't work:
>  
>  a = "1" + 2

haven't tried that yet, but i guess it would at least evoke a warning in
ANSI C++.

>  as "1" is a string and 2 an integer. And even though C is statically typed,

In C++, "1" is a 'char const * const'.

>  it won't complain - you just end up with an unexpected result.
>  
>  And pointers are not evil in themselves - the are a neccessity to create

i didn't say that.
In fact, they are everywhere, even in Python and Java, except that you
don't get to see them.

>  recursive structures. But deliberately casting pointers can be very harmful 

i agree.

>  - a reason why its forbidden in languages like java and AFAIK ada.
>  
>  > More concretely, I am thinking particularly of Python vs C++.
>  > So, are there any examples (without pointers, references, or
>  > adress-taking), which would have a different result in Python and in C++?
>  
>  I have difficulties to understand what you want here. Please elaborate.

i am just trying to come up with the best possible definition of "weak and
strong typing" ( "best" in the sense of completeness and objectiveness).
I've read up quite a bit about strong/weak typing, and static and dynamic
typing, and it seems to me that, while static/dynamic typing is a pretty
well-defined concept, the definition of strong/weak typing is not so
clear-cut.

Cheers,
Gab.

-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| There are works which wait,                                             |
| and which one does not understand for a long time; [...]                |
| for the question often arrives a terribly long time after the answer.   |
|                                                         (Oscar Wilde)   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From simon.brunning at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 04:30:48 2004
From: simon.brunning at gmail.com (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:30:48 +0000
Subject: How to use sys.stdout
In-Reply-To: <cmclfi$cgm$1@netnews.hinet.net>
References: <cmclfi$cgm$1@netnews.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c6041104013067e58181@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 15:24:31 +0800, Leon <square690410 at yahoo.com.tw> wrote:
> what does it have properties ?
> what does it have method ?
> how to use they ? or where can find any information

sys.stdout is a writable file object. See
<http://docs.python.org/lib/bltin-file-objects.html> for a file
object's methods.

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B,
simon.brunning at gmail.com,
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/


From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Tue Nov 16 16:48:44 2004
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:48:44 -0800
Subject: newbie question
In-Reply-To: <opshlbpglz1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
References: <c30e885a.0411160835.35e39084@posting.google.com>
	<opshlbpglz1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
Message-ID: <200411161348.44611.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

I have done shell programming in both python and perl for some time. I love 
both languages for different reasons. At the risk of sounding like language 
evangelicalism, though, I will advise you to use python exclusively. 
Sometimes without thinking I still reach for perl to do 'shell' scripting (by 
thinking in perl and beginning with the infamous "#! /usr/bin/perl -w"). In 
these cases I invariably finish and say to myself "I should have done this in 
python."

Take a look at the "os" module.

James

On Tuesday 16 November 2004 07:52 pm, Caleb Hattingh wrote:
> Can python be used for shell programming?
>
> Absolutely.  Going through the python tutorial will take, say, 3 hours,
> and then you should be able to decide for yourself.
>
> As perl does?
>
> That is a very different question I don't think I am qualified to answer.
>
> On 16 Nov 2004 08:35:15 -0800, John <johnw822003 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Can python do Shell programming or system programming as perl does?
> > Thanks.
> >
> > John

-- 
James Stroud, Ph.D.
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
611 Charles E. Young Dr. S.
MBI 205, UCLA 951570
Los Angeles CA 90095-1570
http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From robin at alldunn.com  Tue Nov  9 23:19:43 2004
From: robin at alldunn.com (Robin Dunn)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 20:19:43 -0800
Subject: ANNOUNCE: wxPython 2.5.3.1
Message-ID: <419196DF.1010502@alldunn.com>

Announcing
----------

I'm pleased to announce the 2.5.3.1 release of wxPython, now available
for download at http://wxPython.org/download.php


What is wxPython?
-----------------

wxPython is a GUI toolkit for the Python programming language. It
allows Python programmers to create programs with a robust, highly
functional graphical user interface, simply and easily. It is
implemented as a Python extension module that wraps the GUI components
of the popular wxWidgets cross platform library, which is written in
C++.

wxPython is a cross-platform toolkit. This means that the same program
will usually run on multiple platforms without modifications.
Currently supported platforms are 32-bit Microsoft Windows, most Linux
or other Unix-like systems using GTK or GTK2, and Apple Macintosh OS
X.


Changes in 2.5.3.1
------------------

For the complete list of changes in this release, please see
http://wxPython.org/recentchanges.php.  Some of the highlights are as
follows:

* It is now possible to install multiple versions of wxPython at the
   same time, and there is support for choosing at runtime which
   version will be imported with "import wx".  See the Migration Guide
   and http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/MultiVersionInstalls for more
   details.

* Added wx.lib.ogl.DrawnShape, and fixed various little bugs in the
   new OGL.

* Added support to XRC and XRCed for the 3-state checkbox flags and
   also for wx.ToggleButton.  Updated the generic window styles
   supported by XRCed.

* It is now possible to create "stock" buttons by using one of the
   "stock" IDs.  If the platform has coresponding standard button
   images then they will be used.

* Added wx.lib.ticker.Ticker class from Chris Mellon.

* Added wx.Frame.RequestUserAttention which, if the platform suports
   it, will do something (such as flash the task bar item) to suggest
   to the user that they should look at that window.

* wx.Sizer.Show (and Hide) now take an optional parameter specifying
   if the item to be shown should be searched for recursivly in
   subsizers, and return a boolean value indicating if the item was
   found.

* Added wx.Choicebook, yet another notebook-like control.

* Added limited support for wxEventLoop.

* wxMac: wx.TaskBarIcon is implemented by allowing you to change the
   app's icon on the Dock and also specifying a menu that should be
   merged with the normal dock popup menu.

* FloatCanvas updates from Chris Barker

* PyPlot updates from Gordon Williams.

* MaskedEdit updates from Will Sadkin.

* Added wrappers for wx.WebKitCtrl for the OSX build, from Kevin
   Ollivier.

* wxPython on OSX can now be built in Unicode mode and comes with an
   uninstaller script.


-- 
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
http://wxPython.org  Java give you jitters?  Relax with wxPython!



From contact at alanlittle.org  Fri Nov 12 14:44:25 2004
From: contact at alanlittle.org (Alan Little)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 11:44:25 -0800
Subject: Beginner's scoping question
References: <4ef0f3a4.0411101240.21132006@posting.google.com>
	<pg97p0pbb0466gsbllaqugr93tot5qk2uj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4ef0f3a4.0411121144.50f5218e@posting.google.com>

Very helpful and informative responses guy. Thanks. I was surprised
that the assignment in the __init__ wouldn't search the enclosing
scope first before creating a new local. But if that's the way it
works, that's the way it works. Now I now.


From max at alcyone.com  Thu Nov 18 18:49:46 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:49:46 -0800
Subject: Exponential Notation and integers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6569.1100821388.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6569.1100821388.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Du-dncB7_qqGqADcRVn-tg@speakeasy.net>

Timothy Fitz wrote:

> Why are all numberical literals in exponential notation floats? To me
> it is counter-intuitive for 1e3 to behave so fundamentally different
> from 1000.

Probably primarily by convention.  Most language use computerized 
scientific notation to represent floating point numbers, not integers. 
It makes sense, after all:  should 1.344e3 be an int, but 1.344e2 be a 
float?

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
   I'll have to get over this sooner or later. Why not now?
   -- Louis Wu


From richie at entrian.com  Mon Nov 22 04:09:24 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:09:24 +0000
Subject: Python and generic programming
In-Reply-To: <87llcvssfy.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>
References: <mailman.5272.1098381729.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm17og.ctwoqv17vkctxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<419EEEAA.D3C1046F@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6642.1100936758.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<87actcrhlo.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>
	<mailman.6647.1100967514.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<87llcvssfy.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>
Message-ID: <g5a3q057grtlbbt8je1pevvchofuiud9n8@4ax.com>


[Isaac]
> [...] my post didn't make
> sense even to myself.  So I cancel that post a minute after making it,
> although apparently my cancel posting didn't go as far as my response.

The comp.lang.python newsgroup is mirrored by the python-list at python.org
mailing list, so canceling a message often won't work for the mailing list
subscribers.  Your original message will already have been sent out by
email by the time your cancel message gets through.

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com



From exarkun at divmod.com  Sun Nov 14 10:40:58 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 15:40:58 GMT
Subject: Smart dummy objects
In-Reply-To: <41974FF0.4080207@pytex.org>
Message-ID: <20041114154058.20649.1780909222.divmod.quotient.5112@ohm>

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 12:30:40 +0000, Jonathan Fine <jfine at pytex.org> wrote:
>I'd appreciate comments on what I'm doing.
> 
> Please be kind, I'm a new kid on the block.
> 
> 
> Here's my application.
> 
> I'm writing some test code.
> 
> (I'm a recent convert to unit testing.)
> 
> 
> I want to test a series of changes to an object.
> 
> The change methods return self, so I can form chains.
> 
> Like so:
>     x = obj.this().that(12).other(x=3, y=12)
>     assert x is obj
> 

  These are often called "mock objects".  See http://pmock.sourceforge.net/

  Jp


From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Wed Nov 10 02:32:23 2004
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:32:23 -0000
Subject: Tkinter callback caused abnormal program termination
References: <Ej7kd.5790$Q7.1647@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <opsg8m79i913dtg9@dhcp-230-2e99.gatwick.eur.slb.com>

On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 17:41:56 GMT, John Pote <johnpote at blueyonder.co.uk>  
wrote:

> Running my programme in Python 2.3.4 I received the following msg in the
> consol :-
> (Pent III running W2K prof)
>
> """
> Exception in Tkinter callback
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "c:\apps\python\234\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1345, in __call__
>     return self.func(*args)
>   File "c:\apps\python\234\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 459, in callit
>     self.deletecommand(tmp[0])
> AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'deletecommand'
> UpdateStringProc should not be invoked for type option
>
> abnormal program termination
> """
> There was no other traceback information.
>
> Could this be related to lines of the ilk:-
>   self.infoSpd.config(text="%d.%01d"%spd)
> where infoSpd is a Tkinter Label object placed using the grid manager.
>
> Thousands of these updates were performed so the labels displayed  
> progress
> through a memory dump of a system accessed through a serial port.
>
> I had trouble before with Python versions 2.2.1 and 2.2.3 where  
> commenting
> out these Label updates stopped the system crashing and it was happy to  
> run
> for hours performing tests on the external hardware. (an embedded data
> logger I'm developing)
>
> Anyone any thoughts?
>
> John


Only one (thought that is)  Are you updating thses Label widgets from other
threads? and could you possibly post an example?

Martin

-- 
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/



From ncoghlan at email.com  Fri Nov 26 10:47:21 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 01:47:21 +1000
Subject: Operator Overloading
In-Reply-To: <f6b69c93.0411251013.62bbe201@posting.google.com>
References: <f6b69c93.0411250014.61315219@posting.google.com>
	<co48s1$r1f$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<41a5e084$0$25787$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
	<f6b69c93.0411251013.62bbe201@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41a7500a$0$25761$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Sebastien Boisgerault wrote:
>>>from Numeric import *
>>>a = array([3.14])
>>>Array = type(a)
>>>a.__getitem__(0)
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: __getitem__
> 
>>>Array.__getitem__(a,0)
> 
> 3.14

That's just. . . odd. It's possible that array has a custom __getattr__ or 
__getattribute__ implementation that is not falling back to the class dictionary 
correctly. The direct class access doesn't use the custom handlers, and gets the 
correct answer. However, you'd need someone more familiar with Numeric than I am 
to say exactly what is going on.

If Numeric has its own mailing list, I'd try asking there.

Cheers,
Nick.


From detlev at die-offenbachs.de  Mon Nov  8 13:30:47 2004
From: detlev at die-offenbachs.de (Detlev Offenbach)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 19:30:47 +0100
Subject: Eric3 and mod_python debugging ?
References: <isyjd.22586$Es2.490451@twister2.libero.it>
Message-ID: <cmoe0n$3l0$1@online.de>

Arso - Italy wrote:

> 
> Hi
> 
> someone have already used eric3 for debugging code running on apache
> using mod_python ?
> After the execution of the patch for apache.py, how the debug is
> activated ?
> 
> More thanks for any response.
> 

Just follow the directions for debugging given in the mod_python manual.

Detlev


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Nov 25 08:25:47 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 14:25:47 +0100
Subject: redirecting stderr
References: <4edc17eb.0411250410.6b460253@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <co4mgn$j4b$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Michele Simionato wrote:

> Maybe it is something obvious, but what is going on with this code?
> 
> import sys
> myerr = file("myerr.txt", "w")
> sys.stderr = myerr
> try:
>     raise Exception, "some error"
> finally:
>     myerr.close()
>     sys.stderr = sys.__stderr__
> 
> I would expect the error message to be written into "myerr.txt", instead
> it is displayed on the console, on regular stderr (?) and "myerr.txt" is
> empty. I guess I misunderstood something ...

I'd say you have to handle the exception before the original stderr is
restored, e. g:

import sys
import traceback
myerr = file("myerr.txt", "w")
sys.stderr = myerr
try:
    try:
        raise Exception("some error")
    except:
        traceback.print_exc()
finally:
    myerr.close()
    sys.stderr = sys.__stderr__

As print_exc() allows you to specify a file parameter, you could of course
entirely drop the try ... finally.

Peter



From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sat Nov  6 00:13:04 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 21:13:04 -0800
Subject: How come wxPython isn't in the standard library?
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aj3u52-a2r.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

BJ?rn Lindqvist wrote:
> IMHO,
> having a good GUI library in the stdlib would make distributing GUI
> apps much easier.

Anything that is in stdlib is somewhat constrained to the same release
schedule as the core Python.  For example it would have been bad to do
the wxPython 2.4 to 2.5 transition during the 2.3 Python series.

If your issue is distributing applications, there are other solutions.
For example, look at http://dotamatic.sf.net which is written in
Python using wxPython and has Windows, Linux and Mac binaries.  An
end user never needs to know or care what the application is written
in or libraries used, and there are no other depenedencies.

A more extreme example is http://www.bitpim.org where we have even more
fun stuff like XML, SSL, SSH, USB and many other libraries.  Again the
end users don't ever need to know or care.

Roger 




From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Nov  5 06:11:41 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 12:11:41 +0100
Subject: deref in a string into an operand
References: <pan.2004.11.05.08.00.19.364836@yahoo.com>
	<pan.2004.11.05.10.09.21.355122@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cmfn3o$j46$05$1@news.t-online.com>

John Doe wrote:

> Foolish me; I examined the __builtin__ and found __getattribute__,
> along with '__mul__' '__add__', '__sub__' and '__div__'.
> 
> So using a builtin object like 'x' ...
> 
> x = 5
> attr = '__mul__'
> 
> print x.__getattribute__( attr )( 5 )
> 25
> 
> My program will store the operand as '__mul__' instead of '*', along with
> a health bit of comment.
 
However, this may sometimes fail:

>>> 1 + 1.0
2.0
>>> 1 .__add__(1.0)
NotImplemented

Consider using the operator module instead:

>>> import operator
>>> operator.add(1, 1.0)
2.0
>>> getattr(operator, "add")(1, 1.0)
2.0

Peter



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Nov 11 22:23:27 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:23:27 -0500
Subject: Tkinter and WCK (was Re: How come wxPython isn't in the standard
 library?)
In-Reply-To: <2vgfe5F2m8raqU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2vgfe5F2m8raqU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cn1aai$71p$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Jon Perez wrote:
> I think there's another reason not to standardize on
> wxPython and it's that its API is not at all pythonic.
> It reminds me too much of a C++ API.
> 
> Tkinter's is far easier to use and learn. (PyGtk would be
> 2nd while PyQt's API, in my experience is just as C++-like and
> hard to understand as wxPython's)

This appears to be a matter of opinion.  I found Tkinter
very difficult to understand, and never did get to the point
where I could just write code with it, always spending my
time frustrated with things not doing what I thought they
were supposed to do and having a hard time finding examples
that matched my goals.

Strangely enough, given how often people complain about wxPython's
documentation, I didn't really find Tkinter much better.

> Tkinter's two real cons are that:
> a) it is [supposed to be] ugly (but see my replies below)
> b) it is an additional layer and thus slow

I also concede both of those points.

In a nutshell, it's very clear from the past discussions in
this forum that *both* frameworks have a place, along with
(apparently, though I've not used it) PyQT and some of the
less mature efforts that are trying to build on top of one
or more of these.

This is an area where one solution will never please everybody,
so asking for wxPython to go into the standard library is
pointless.  Tkinter is there already so leave it be, but use
whatever you find to be most effective.

-Peter


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Nov 10 16:38:03 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:38:03 -0800
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
In-Reply-To: <60dfb6f6.0411101037.5cd6a17d@posting.google.com>
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com> <2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<60dfb6f6.0411050715.601f381f@posting.google.com>
	<2v82u3F2dhtcpU1@uni-berlin.de> <cmoqn9$cbf$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<10p1ud2juqlkb7c@corp.supernews.com>
	<60dfb6f6.0411101037.5cd6a17d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10p52ccen1ql956@corp.supernews.com>

Carl Banks wrote:

>mike at hobbshouse.org (Michael Hobbs) wrote in message news:<10p1ud2juqlkb7c at corp.supernews.com>...
>  
>
>>I was thinking that "rigid" would be the antonym of "fluid".
>>    
>>
>
>You are correct, of course.  However, I don't like "rigid" as a term
>to describe typing, for a simple reason: it's not specific enough.
>
>Unlike solid, rigid can easily refer not only to substances, but also
>to stances, or laws, or hierarchies, or guidelines, etc. [...]
>
>On the opposite end, I think I actually would prefer "liquid" to
>"fluid".  Fluid would be ok; unlike with rigid, there are no fluid
>stances or fluid laws, although there are fluid guidelines.  Fluid
>isn't as general in meaning as rigid is.  However, the word liquid
>definitely stresses the metaphor with substances a lot better then the
>word fluid does.
>  
>

On the other hand, I personally think that "rigid/fluid" make a better 
metaphor specifically *because* they are not tied so much to physical 
properties -- they are terms that have already been generalized as 
metaphor in the much same way as is intended here.  The parallel with 
rigid stances, rigid hierarchies, etc, is an appropriate one -- in all 
such cases, we're talking about something that resists attempts to 
change its nature and/or form.  Similarly, "fluid" connotes "easily 
conforming to its environment", an apt description of the behavior of 
objects in a language full of automatic conversions/coercions.  At least 
to me, the most obvious interpretation of both terms is the situation 
we're discussing here

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From james.frohnhofer at csfb.com  Tue Nov  9 13:59:09 2004
From: james.frohnhofer at csfb.com (Frohnhofer, James)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 18:59:09 -0000
Subject: Concise idiom to initialize dictionaries
Message-ID: <89D59C407D04D54AA82DC8BA312D430D10C6175C@enyc11p32001.corpny.csfb.com>



exarkun at intarweb.us wrote:

>   This is actually not the problem being experienced.  The 
> actual problem is much more subtle and insidious.  Consider 
> this example:
> 
>     >>> locals()['x'] = 'y'
>     >>> print x
>     y
>     >>> 
> 
>   All appears well!  Mutating the object returned by locals() 
> lets us change arbitrary names in our local scope.  Great.  
> Now, let's go write a program:
> 
>     exarkun at boson:~$ cat > foo.py
>     def foo():
>         locals()['x'] = 'y'
>         print x
>     foo()
>     exarkun at boson:~$ python foo.py
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "foo.py", line 4, in ?
>         foo()
>       File "foo.py", line 3, in foo
>         print x
>     NameError: global name 'x' is not defined
>     exarkun at boson:~$ 
> 
>   "_Whaaaaat_?" you say.  "It's doing exactly the same 
> thing!" you say.  Well, not quite.

Exactly what happened.

> 
>   Mutating the objects returned by both locals() and 
> globals() is a no-no.  They are intended to provide _read 
> only_ access to those two scopes.  Since they return 
> dictionaries, you _can_ actually mutate them, though.  And 
> mutating globals() even works as expected; however, mutating 
> locals() does not.
> 
>   So why did it work in the interactive interpreter?  Well, 
> because of this nifty little fact:
> 
>     >>> locals() is globals()
>     True
>     >>> 
>

Ahhh. Now I see.
 
>   Oops.  At the top-level of the interactive interpreter, 
> there is no distinct local scope, just like at the top-level 
> of a module.  So the locals() function just returns the 
> globals dictionary, which happens to respect modifications.
> 
>   Kind of surprising, eh?
> 
>   Luckily for the original poster, namespaces aren't the only 
> dicts in town.  What he really wants to do is something like this:
> 

The number of dictionaries I need is 12.  I started out with a dictionary of
dictionaries, but my expressions (where I was actually using the dictionaries)
were pushed over the readibility edge by the extra level of indirection.  I
will probably stick with initializing them individually, preferring clear code
to compact code (while always trying for both).

Thanks to all who helped.

==============================================================================
This message is for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you received
this message in error please delete it and notify us. If this message was
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Instructions transmitted over this system are not binding on CSFB until they
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From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Nov 19 14:03:52 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:03:52 -0300
Subject: Python 2.4 / built-ins
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7C26@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Harald Massa]

#- after reading the announcement I also read the "highlights" within 
#- http://www.python.org/2.4/highlights.html
#- 
#- Under headline
#- 
#-   New or upgraded built-ins
#- 
#- there is 
#- 
#- decimal - a new numeric type that allows for the accurate 
#- representation of 
#- floating point numbers (avoiding the problems of binary 
#- floating point) 
#- (PEP 327)
#- ...
#- Am I wrong with this information?

You're right, decimal belongs to the standard library.

Thanks for pointing it. I'll follow this until is fixed.

.	Facundo


From newsgroups.nospam at dfackrell.mailshell.com  Thu Nov  4 15:44:23 2004
From: newsgroups.nospam at dfackrell.mailshell.com (Daniel Fackrell)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 13:44:23 -0700
Subject: pep 336:  Make None Callable
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com><mailman.5897.1099544898.5135.python-list@python.org><1gmq3sg.13vqunmdm9pcbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5928.1099598880.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cme4dd$gvt$1@domitilla.aioe.org>

"Terry Hancock" <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.5928.1099598880.5135.python-list at python.org...
[snip lots of good stuff]
> Maybe there should be a noop built-in, though?
>
> Cheers,
> Terry

If it were possible, pass() would seem to make sense to me for this purpose,
as it's already a no-op.  Too bad 'pass' is a reserved word and not likely
to be capable of being overloaded in this way.

----
def a():
    return 1

def b():
    return 2

funcs = [a, pass, b]

for func in funcs:
    func()
----

Maybe this comes from my recent wonderings about the separation between
reserved words and callables, though.  I was thinking along the lines that
def and class in particular could be interesting (though not necessarily
useful) with callable versions and hacked together the following:

----
def class_(args, code, name='__anon__'):
    '''Class generator'''
    code = code.split('\n')
    for index in range(len(code)):
        code[index] = '        %s' % code[index]
    code.insert(0, 'class C(%s):' % args )
    code = '\n'.join(code)
    exec(code)
    C.__name__ = name
    return C

def def_(args, code, name='__anon__'):
    '''Function generator'''
    code = code.split('\n')
    for index in range(len(code)):
        code[index] = '        %s' % code[index]
    code.insert(0, 'def F(%s):' % args )
    code = '\n'.join(code)
    exec(code)
    F.__name__ = name
    return F

def lambda_(args, expression):
    return def_(args, 'return %s' % expression, '<lambda>')
----

This has seen little testing, and no production use.

Daniel Fackrell




From peter at somewhere.com  Tue Nov  2 11:38:01 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 17:38:01 +0100
Subject: Method Underscores?
In-Reply-To: <YwRdd.231$N92.55@fe61.usenetserver.com>
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
	<mailman.5249.1098340790.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cdJdd.5313$WN5.3726@trndny08>
	<YwRdd.231$N92.55@fe61.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <cm8d5t$arq$1@swifty.westend.com>

Hans Nowak schrieb:
> I don't know what "truly OO" is.  It appears that every language 
> designer has his own ideas about that.  Hence, Java's OO is not the same 
> as C++'s, or Smalltalk's, or Self's, or CLOS's, or...

I once read the following definition:

An OO language must support:

- creating and using objects
- encapsulation (data hiding)
- inheritance
- polymorphism

Current Python fulfills this. Don't know about pre 2.2.versions.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Nov  8 06:34:01 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 12:34:01 +0100
Subject: Importing problems
References: <1099752782.323111.72190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.08.11.34.00.201770@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Sat, 06 Nov 2004 06:53:02 -0800 schrieb Gabriele *darkbard* Farina:

> Hi
> 
> I've my application filesystem structured like this:

...
 
> I'd like to use a class defined in the module pharaon/utils/buffers.py
> inside a class defined in pharaon/engine/php/tokenizer.py
> 
> I import the class this way (inside buffers.py):
> from pharaon.utils.buffers import FileBuffer
 
> and then I use the class this way:
> class Tokenizer:
> def __init__(self, source):
> self.buffer = FileBuffer(source)

The indentation got lost.

> In main.py file I got this code:
> from pharaon.engine.php.tokenizer import Tokenizer
> t = Tokenizer("test.php")
> print t.buffer
 
> but when I run the code it prints None.
> why?? I wrong importing the modules?? 

What does this print?
print t.buffer.__class__

HTH,
 Thomas



From kayschluehr at gmx.de  Sat Nov 27 16:31:42 2004
From: kayschluehr at gmx.de (Kay Schluehr)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 22:31:42 +0100
Subject: How to extend inner classes?
Message-ID: <41A8F23E.6030109@gmx.de>

You can define a class variable Pos with the class Pos as its value

class PeriodicGrid :
    class Pos:
	pass            
    Pos = Pos 

>>> grid = PeriodicGrid()
>>> grid.Pos()
<__main__.Pos instance at 0x00EEFAD0>

Ciao
    Kay
 






From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 16 01:54:11 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 07:54:11 +0100
Subject: How to load new class definitions at runtime?
References: <mailman.6287.1100207213.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gn8ja3.7d3sbhuk94khN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<6542462a.0411151555.5fe41de4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gnc2wp.3g6t031q0pqwgN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

SM <sjmaster at gmail.com> wrote:

> aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message
news:<1gn8ja3.7d3sbhuk94khN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> > If you need [classes] to be _updatable_ at runtime, look at a recipe by
> > Michael Hudson in the cookbook -- I've updated it for the printed
> > version 2nd ed (since we do have __subclasses__ now, yay!) but that's
> > not done yet.  My vote for most useful custom metaclasses ever...
> 
> That recipe is here:
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/160164
> 
> Is it correct that this metaclass solution does not handle changes to
> __init__, including new attributes that are bound there? I.e., it

It doesn't rerun __init__ nor any other method on existing instances.

> basically only deals with modification or addition or deletion of
> methods; if you need to add new attributes or have any other new code
> in __init__, you'll have to make new instances for all the old
> instances, or deal with it some other way. In which case would you be
> better off just using that other way from the start?

It's pretty trivial to enhance the recipe to run a per-instance or
per-subclass __make_old_into_new__ method, if that method exists, on all
existing old instances -- if you need to adjust the old instances'
states (==attributes), that strikes me as the best architecture.


Alex


From wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de  Thu Nov  4 14:41:23 2004
From: wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de (Wolfgang Keller)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:41:23 +0100
Subject: Python in Process Control?
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<du71xgjpsay.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<z5nr98uuk2l4.ul5xbcv4hq6x.dlg@40tude.net>
	<r8ydncR5KordxcDcRVn-qg@powergate.ca>
	<1skb5kv22vk9g$.pxvuoyw24hel.dlg@40tude.net>
	<clh3rt$5d7$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <jn5pffkfwqky$.1nc7xaglu1zxs$.dlg@40tude.net>

Hello,

> What do you need ?

> plain CAN ?
> CANopen ?

That's already useful.

MVB and WTB are THE standards in the world were I live. :-)

FIP and LON are commonly used as well. Modbus sometimes.

> It's available for QNX6 !

>> Ah yes, and obviously have Python ported to all those RTOSes and embedded
>> controllers (PowerPC, StrongArm/XScale, MIPS, SH)...
> 
> QNX6 works with these processors :)

Ah, while you're at it, how about making PyQNX stackless? Could be quite
usefull for communication and statemachines, I guess. :-)

*duck*

Regards,

Wolfgang Keller


From kbk at shore.net  Wed Nov 17 00:28:08 2004
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 00:28:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Weekly Python Patch/Bug Summary
Message-ID: <200411170528.iAH5S8E3026597@h006008a7bda6.ne.client2.attbi.com>

Patch / Bug Summary
___________________

Patches :  246 open ( +2) /  2699 closed ( +1) /  2945 total ( +3)
Bugs    :  770 open ( -1) /  4614 closed (+19) /  5384 total (+18)
RFE     :  156 open ( -1) /   135 closed ( +1) /   291 total ( +0)

New / Reopened Patches
______________________

httplib: allowing stream-type body part in requests  (2004-11-12)
       http://python.org/sf/1065257  opened by  Alessandro Forghieri

Fix pydoc crashing on unicode strings  (2004-11-14)
       http://python.org/sf/1065986  opened by  Cherniavsky Beni

Non-ascii in non-unicode __credits__ in Lib/pydoc.py  (2004-08-15)
       http://python.org/sf/1009389  reopened by  loewis

fix for 1067728: Better handling of float arguments to seek  (2004-11-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1067760  opened by  Robert Church

Patches Closed
______________

Fix for os.path.expanduser for Win2000  (2002-11-26)
       http://python.org/sf/643943  closed by  jlgijsbers

Fix various x86_64 build issues  (2004-10-20)
       http://python.org/sf/1050475  closed by  loewis

New / Reopened Bugs
___________________

IDLE doesn't start again when saving empty key set  (2004-11-11)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1064535  opened by  Hernan Martinez Foffani

Parser module asts don't match grammar  (2004-11-11)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1064873  opened by  logistix

calendar day/month name lookup too slow  (2004-11-12)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1065388  opened by  Guido van Rossum

sre_parse group limit check missing with 'python -O'  (2004-11-12)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1065427  opened by  Sam Rushing

pprint.pformat requires __repr__  (2004-11-12)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1065456  opened by  Dave Kuhlman

Typo about PyErr_WriteUnraisable()  (2004-11-14)
       http://python.org/sf/1066036  opened by  Raise L. Sail

datetime.replace method description error  (2004-11-14)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1066438  opened by  Brian Underwood

special methods become static  (2004-11-14)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1066490  opened by  Kevin Quick

SegFault in interactive mode when cursor is over a non-ASCII  (2004-11-15)
       http://python.org/sf/1066545  opened by  theIgel

test_pwd fails on 64bit system (Opteron)  (2004-11-15)
       http://python.org/sf/1066546  opened by  Miki Tebeka

"Limitations" section of profiler docs is incorrect  (2004-11-15)
       http://python.org/sf/1066607  opened by  Nick Coghlan

Obsolete info in Tutorial 9.1  (2004-11-15)
       http://python.org/sf/1067018  opened by  Kent Johnson

Small typo  (2004-11-15)
       http://python.org/sf/1067023  opened by  Scott Miller

win32con missing codes VK_VOLUME_MUTE, VK_BROWSER_BACK, ...  (2004-11-15)
       http://python.org/sf/1067153  opened by  Jeff Connelly aka shellreef

Incorrect length of unicode strings using .encode('utf-8')  (2004-11-16)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1067294  opened by  Ed Schofield

urllib fails with multiple ftps  (2004-11-16)
       http://python.org/sf/1067702  opened by  Russell Owen

Overflow error seek()ing with float values > (2 ** 31) - 1  (2004-11-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1067728  opened by  Robert Church

wininst --install-script leaves residual files on C:  (2004-11-16)
       http://python.org/sf/1067732  opened by  J Livingston

Overflow error seek()ing with float values > (2 ** 31) - 1  (2004-11-17)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1067756  opened by  Robert Church

Bugs Closed
___________

IDLE aborts on any error when started with "-n"  (2004-11-10)
       http://python.org/sf/1063840  closed by  kbk

Konqueror can't render docs because of malformed HTML  (2004-05-28)
       http://python.org/sf/962442  closed by  fdrake

Manual typesets bit-shift operators as guillemet  (2004-11-06)
       http://python.org/sf/1061770  closed by  fdrake

Fix Decimal's .min() and .max() docs regarding NaNs  (2004-11-04)
       http://python.org/sf/1060644  closed by  facundobatista

IDLE doesn't start again when saving empty key set  (2004-11-11)
       http://python.org/sf/1064535  closed by  kbk

Legacy requirements: Incorrect comments?  (2004-11-02)
       http://python.org/sf/1058937  closed by  dairiki

Parser module asts don't match grammar  (2004-11-11)
       http://python.org/sf/1064873  closed by  bcannon

optparse docs mildly mangled  (2004-11-10)
       http://python.org/sf/1063757  closed by  gward

test_subprocess 2.4b2 fails on tru64  (2004-11-10)
       http://python.org/sf/1063571  closed by  astrand

difflib HtmlDiff() extra space on inserted 1 character lines  (2004-10-26)
       http://python.org/sf/1054821  closed by  tim_one

calendar day/month name lookup too slow  (2004-11-12)
       http://python.org/sf/1065388  closed by  tim_one

sre_parse group limit check missing with 'python -O'  (2004-11-12)
       http://python.org/sf/1065427  closed by  effbot

pprint.pformat requires __repr__  (2004-11-12)
       http://python.org/sf/1065456  closed by  doerwalter

readline()/readlines()  (2003-06-27)
       http://python.org/sf/761787  closed by  fullsail

datetime.replace method description error  (2004-11-14)
       http://python.org/sf/1066438  closed by  tim_one

special methods become static  (2004-11-15)
       http://python.org/sf/1066490  closed by  mwh

pickle won't dump instances after reload  (2002-10-25)
       http://python.org/sf/628925  closed by  facundobatista

Incorrect length of unicode strings using .encode('utf-8')  (2004-11-16)
       http://python.org/sf/1067294  closed by  lemburg

IDLE DOES NOT START ON WinXP Pro  (2004-08-27)
       http://python.org/sf/1017978  closed by  kbk

Overflow error seek()ing with float values > (2 ** 31) - 1  (2004-11-16)
       http://python.org/sf/1067756  closed by  nnorwitz

RFE Closed
__________

os.run function for convinience and robustness  (2004-10-05)
       http://python.org/sf/1040267  closed by  jlgijsbers



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Mon Nov  8 15:11:12 2004
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 20:11:12 GMT
Subject: yet another recipe on string interpolation
References: <4edc17eb.0411032219.659c1824@posting.google.com>
	<cmdpe5$uem$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<4edc17eb.0411080106.71d4f3d4@posting.google.com>
	<q3Qjd.17$4U1.11@trndny05>
Message-ID: <ApQjd.13$eG4.12@trndny08>

> By using named methods instead of the % operator:
> * we avoid the precedence issues associated with %
> * we avoid confusion as to whether a tuple is an acceptable second argument
> * we avoid confusion with "%s" style inputs.
> * we enable keyword arguments:  mytempl.substitute(weather="rainy")
> * we get something more documenting than punctuation.

s/documenting/self-documenting


One other thought.  In both the original and current design, it is possible and
perhaps likely that the template instantiation and method application will be
remote from one another.  Unfortunately, the original design forced the
safe/non-safe decision to be made at the time of instantiation.

When you think about it, that was a mis-assignment of responsibilities.  The
choice of safe vs. non-safe has nothing to do with the contents of the template
and everything to do with how the template is used. The code that uses the
template (applies the method) needs to know whether it should handle exceptions
or not.  Hence, it should be the one to make the safe / non-safe choice.

Consider whether the following fragment is correct:

     mytemp % values

Should it have been wrapped in a try/except?  Can values be a tuple?  Do we have
a reasonable expectation of whether mytemp contains $placeholder ro
%(placeholder)s?  The approach taken by the revised pep makes all of the issues
clear.

There were a couple of downsides to switching the API.  Formerly, if you knew
that client code used the % operator with a dictionary, then you could pass in
an instance of the Template class and have it do the right thing (polymorphism
on a good day).  Also, most folks already know what % means, so there was less
of a learning curve.  IOW, the switch was an improvement, but not a pure win.
C'est le vie.


Raymond Hettinger




From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 17 23:36:03 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 20:36:03 -0800
Subject: don't NaN & infinities hide FP errors
References: <940ee3e8.0411170130.31d247@posting.google.com>	<cnf963$ioc$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<mailman.6478.1100692586.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0411172036.64ee4b02@posting.google.com>

Gandalf <gandalf at geochemsource.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.6478.1100692586.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> On UNIX systems, math.log(-1) will be NaN.
I don't think so. On Linux, I get a ValueError with the message "math domain error".


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Nov 19 23:07:12 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:07:12 -0500
Subject: instant messenging
In-Reply-To: <cnmdgr$sl8$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
References: <s9und.4018$Qh3.1971@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<cnmdgr$sl8$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <rrznd.1304$QR.48@lakeread01>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Lucas Raab wrote:
> 
>> Are there any instant messenging programs out there for use in a 
>> Python app?? I've heard of Jabber, but never looke into it.
> 
> 
> Maybe try Googling for "python instant messenging"?  I note that
> in the first page of results there are at least two Python
> modules for the Jabber protocol...
> 
> -Peter

You'd probably get better results googling for "python instant 
messaging", the more common term for Jabber et al.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Nov  2 21:12:53 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 21:12:53 -0500
Subject: scripting languages vs statically compiled ones
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5859.1099445988.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list@python.org>	<3064b51d.0410280904.55f2fa4@posting.google.com>	<ba129ce7.0410281929.35f70763@posting.google.com>	<ef7go0ps4tl5bei3i38hvj0r7u1rd0var6@4ax.com>
	<mailman.5859.1099445988.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <_dXhd.30821$SW3.5407@fed1read01>

Andrew Durdin wrote:

> On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 17:56:03 -0600, Programmer Dude <chris at sonnack.com> wrote:
> 
>>Concur.  A while back I thought I could speed up a VB app that had
>>a lot of bit-twiddle operations by writting a C-based DLL for it.
>>
>>Turns out it ran slower that way!
>>
>>Having used the VC++ debugger to step through compiled VB code, I
>>can attest to it being compiled down to native.  Ratio is much higher
>>than with, say C or C++... I'd WAG it at about 10:1 or slightly more.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, I had to do base64 decoding of a string in a VB
> app; I got a very significant speed increase by rewriting that portion
> with a C DLL. So YMMV I guess :)

The difference is probably that bit-=twiddling operations require very 
little cmpute per operation, so in those cases the call overhead is 
likely to dominate.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Nov 30 10:22:48 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:22:48 -0500
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.4 (final)
In-Reply-To: <8sGdnQjN6qGu7THcRVn-3A@rcn.net>
References: <mailman.6913.1101817983.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8sGdnQjN6qGu7THcRVn-3A@rcn.net>
Message-ID: <coi378$1fd$3@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Dave Merrill wrote:
> Newb question: Is it possible/recommended  to have multiple versions of
> Python installed simultaneously? Earlier, I installed 2.4rc1, and a number
> of things in my 2.3.3 install stopped working. Are there known techniques
> for managing multiple versions?

What exactly stopped working?  Other than the fact that
file associations for .py files will, obviously, point to
only one of the two versions, I don't believe there should
be any other conflicts.  They use different registry keys,
for example, and normally don't rely on environment
variables, the PATH, or such.  Had you made any customizations
to the default installation, such as adding a PYTHONHOME
env var, or putting one folder in your PATH?

-Peter


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 16 01:54:10 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 07:54:10 +0100
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<20041114200132.20649.1982992758.divmod.quotient.5222@ohm>
	<mailman.6390.1100553070.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbf8z.mirt8m687hvbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6397.1100570319.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gnc2jt.uw5i19s61aieN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

> def d_adapt(t):
>     def f(a):
>         return adapt(a, t)
>     return f
> 
> def d_adaptors(*adaptors):
>     #some work necessary to make kwargs work
>     def f(fcn):
>         def f(*args):
>             return fcn(*[i(j) for i,j in zip(adaptors, args)])
>         return f
>     return f
> 
> @d_adaptors(d_adapt(foo), d_adapt(bar))
> def x(y, z):
>     <body of x>

Can do with less work:

def d_adap(*types):
    def f(fcn):
        def f(*args):
            return fcn(*(adapt(i, j)
                         for i, j in izip(types, args)))
        f.__name__ = fcn.__name__
        return f
    return f

@ d_adap(foo, bar)
def x(y, z):
    <body of x>

but the point is whether, if and when 'optional static typing' _syntax_
gets it, it will have this semantics or that of inserting a lot of
typechecks... people can do typecheks or adaptation now, and neither
will go away -- but which, if either, should syntax facilitate?  That,
as I see it, is key.


Alex


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Thu Nov 18 03:32:46 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 08:32:46 GMT
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<4195419b.303035081@news.oz.net>
	<slrncpgm80.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6381.1100534178.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpjcga.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6465.1100663898.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpmejc.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6506.1100723876.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncponhe.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-11-17, Tim Peters schreef <tim.peters at gmail.com>:
> [Antoon Pardon, on thread gimmicks]
>> Couldn't it be possible to have a general solution that works on
>> any kind of box
>
> Yes, because we have that now.
>
>> and provide (or let interested parties provide) an implementation that
>> is better suited for particular boxes?
>
> For the most part, that hasn't happened.  Someone who cares enough
> would need to volunteer (or fund) API redesign to make it feasible.
>
> ...
>
>> Look, I understand perfectly. Use of signals is never my first choice.
>> However there sometimes seem to be circumstances when signals
>> are the lesser evil. My impression is also that the python people
>> seem to have some obligation to help in debugging peoples
>> programs. This is laudable in general but I also have the impression
>> that this obligation puts limits on what they want to allow in the
>> language.
>> 
>> If I hear people argueing about why some things are missing I get
>> the impression something like the following argument line is followed
>>
>>     I don't want to be bothered by the mess that can originate from
>>     ill use of such a feature, I don't want to look trough code
>>     that doesn't work from someone who doesn't understand how to
>>     use this feature properly. So we don't include the feature in
>>     the language (or only put the C-function in).
>>
>> And that is something I find regretable.
>
> Look at the other ("supply") end of the development process:  nothing
> can possibly go into Python until someone wants it enough to volunteer
> to do all the work, or enough to pay someone else to do all the work. 
> The former is most common, but the latter has happened too.
>
> Now in this case, who cares?  Enough to actually do it, that is?  As I
> said before, my experience with signals was mostly negative, so
> there's no chance I'm going to volunteer my time to advance "a
> feature" I dislike and won't use.  Someone *could* pay me to work on
> it, and I'd do that if I couldn't find a less objectionable way to get
> fed <wink>.
>
> Nothing gets in just because someone asks for it, or even just because
> everyone asks for it.  Someone has to do the work.

Sure but that is not enough is it? The work for letting one thread
raise an exception in an other thread is done. But it still didn't
get really in the language. All that was provided was the C interface
and people who want to use it must provide the python interface
themselves.

> Who's that someone in this case?
>
> The only currently active contributor I can think of who cares about
> signals enough to actually work on them is Michael Hudson, but his
> interest seems limited to keeping the interactions been Python's GNU
> readline wrapper and signals working across incompatible details of
> signal semantics on Unixish boxes.  It's possible I'm wrong, and he'd
> really love to work much more on signals, but feels inhibited by
> Guido's well-known dislike of the beasts.
>
> That's not what I'd bet on, though.  Historically, even the limited
> signal support Python supplies has been an endless maintenance burden,
> hard to compare with anything else on the low end of the
> bang-for-the-buck scale; maybe with the endless battle to try to
> support threads *at all* across a gazillion incompatible flavors of
> HP-UX.
>
> And because it's sitting in the volunteer-development ghetto, you bet
> it would be a hard sell to try to introduce "more of the same". 
> Initial volunteers often vanish, leaving their maintenance problems to
> others.  I expect (and you do too, so don't act surprised <wink>) that
> "new signal features" could get vetoed for that reason alone -- the
> simple observation that no current long-time contributor pushes in
> this direction means there's no reason to presume that long-time
> support for new signal gimmicks would exist.

I understand, but that also means one can't expect short term
contributors to put time in this, because they are likely to
see their time invested in this, going to waste.


Now I may invest some time in this anyway, purely for my own
interest. The question I have is, will I just have to fight
the normal signal behaviour or do I have to fight python as
well. To be more specific, the documentation of the signal
module states the following.

   ... only the main thread can set a new signal handler, and the main
   thread will be the only one to receive signals (this is enforced by
   the Python signal module, even if the underlying thread implementa-
   tion supports sending signals to individual threads).


The question I have is the following. That the main thread is the only
one to receive signals, is that purely implemented in the signal module
or is there some interpreter magic that supports this, which can
cause problems for an alternative signal module.


-- 
Antoon Pardon


From PeterAbel at gmx.net  Tue Nov  9 12:50:50 2004
From: PeterAbel at gmx.net (Peter Abel)
Date: 9 Nov 2004 09:50:50 -0800
Subject: Determining combination of bits
References: <x3Qjd.121786$hj.41260@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <21064255.0411090950.3d60d9d6@posting.google.com>

"Sean Berry" <sean at buildingonline.com> wrote in message news:<x3Qjd.121786$hj.41260 at fed1read07>...
> Say I have a dictionary like the following
> 
> {1:'one',2:'two',4:'three',8:'four',16:'five', etc...}

Dont know exactly what your dictionary should represent.
Since 2**0 = 1
      2**1 = 2
      2**2 = 4
      etc.
So I would have expected something like:
{1:'zero',2:'one',4:'two',8:'three',16:'four',32:'five', etc...}


> 
> and I am given some numbers, say 22, 25, and 9.  I want to determine the 
> keys, powers of 2, that comprise the number.
> 
> Ex.  22 = 16+4+2
>        25 = 16+8+1
>        9   = 8+1
> ...etc...
> 
> How do I get these keys?

Solution No. XXXXXXXX:

>> def fn(n):
... 	number=n
... 	if n<=0:
... 		return 'n must be greater 0'
... 	keys=[]
... 	i=1
... 	while n:
... 		if n&1:
... 			keys.append(i)
... 		n=n>>1
... 		i*=2
... 	keys.reverse()
... 	l=map(str,keys)
... 	print '%d = %s' % (number,'+'.join(l))
... 	return keys
... 
>>> print fn(22)
22 = 16+4+2
[16, 4, 2]
>>> print fn(25)
25 = 16+8+1
[16, 8, 1]
>>> print fn(255)
255 = 128+64+32+16+8+4+2+1
[128, 64, 32, 16, 8, 4, 2, 1]
>>> 

Sorry I have only Python 2.2. and though I'm a one-liner-fan my
solution should be clear.

Regards Peter


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Nov  2 09:03:31 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 09:03:31 -0500
Subject: python backward incompatibilities
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5804.1099404042.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cm80v0$ssg$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<mailman.5804.1099404042.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8vudnfJCkdguDhrcRVn-jA@powergate.ca>

David Goodger wrote:
> [Peter Maas]
> 
>> I tried to find a comprehensive list of Python backward incompatibilities
>> without success. What is the fastest way to compile such a list
>> (with code examples / expected results)? Thanks for your hints.
> 
> PEP 290 would be a good start:
> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0290.html

In addition, read AMK's "What's New" pages and inverting
might be a good next step: http://www.amk.ca/python/
(I'm pretty sure he noted each real backwards incompatibility
as the new releases came out.)

-Peter


From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Sat Nov 13 12:24:41 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 13 Nov 2004 17:24:41 GMT
Subject: Advice needed
References: <1100361297.413616.17890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrncpcgmm.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On 13 Nov 2004 07:54:57 -0800, Alberto <aaflores at gmail.com> wrote:
> I was trying to understand the reasons why I should learn Python.

Because it's fun!

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From "gumuzloozenet">  Wed Nov 24 19:22:30 2004
From: "gumuzloozenet"> (dot ("@ dot))
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 01:22:30 +0100
Subject: Python Huffman encoding
Message-ID: <41a525c6$0$76502$b83b6cc0@news.wanadoo.nl>

Hi all, I have written a Python huffman Encoding Module, for my own 
amusement. I thought it might be educational/entertaining for other 
people, so I've put it on my website and wrote about it a little.

http://gumuz.looze.net/wordpress/index.php/archives/2004/11/25/huffman-encoding/

Your comments are highly appreciated!

cheers,

guyon


From gj.den.besten at hccnet.nl  Tue Nov  9 13:01:19 2004
From: gj.den.besten at hccnet.nl (Gert-Jan den Besten)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 19:01:19 +0100
Subject: Concise idiom to initialize dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <89D59C407D04D54AA82DC8BA312D430D10C61759@enyc11p32001.corpny.csfb.com>
References: <89D59C407D04D54AA82DC8BA312D430D10C61759@enyc11p32001.corpny.csfb.com>
Message-ID: <419105EF.1020503@hccnet.nl>

Frohnhofer, James wrote:
> My initial problem was to initialize a bunch of dictionaries at the start of a
> function.
> 
> I did not want to do
> def fn():
> 	a = {}
> 	b = {}
> 	c = {}
> 	. . .
> 	z = {}
> simply because it was ugly and wasted screen space.
> 
> First I tried:
> 
> 	for x in (a,b,c,d,e,f,g): x = {}
> 
> which didn't work (but frankly I didn't really expect it to.)
> Then I tried:
> 
> 	for x in ('a','b','c','d','e','f','g'): locals()[x]={}
> 
> which did what I wanted, in the interpreter.  When I put it inside a function,
> it doesn't seem to work.  If I print locals() from inside the function, I can
> see them, and they appear to be fine, but the first time I try to access one
> of them I get a "NameError: global name 'a' is not defined"
> 
> Now obviously I could easily avoid this problem by just initializing each
> dictionary, but is there something wrong about my understanding of locals,
> that my function isn't behaving the way I expect?



Any variable you assign within a function, is local to that function. 
You cannot refer to it from the enclosing function or module.

If you use a global declaration in the function, you can alter variables 
outside your function. (You can also pass variables using the function 
header.) e.g:


     x = 42

     def a_function():
         global x
         x = "another value"

     print x
     a_function()
     print x


But i don't think this is good programming practice.


Gert-Jan



From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Nov  2 18:43:59 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 15:43:59 -0800
Subject: HTML to Text renderer
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E324510E@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Ian Bicking wrote:
> Does anyone know of a module that can render HTML to text?  Just a 
> subset of HTML, really; I'd like to compose emails using <p> tags and 
> whatnot, fill in all the values in the email template, then 
> apply word 
> wrapping and other formatting.  Also, it'll make using Zope Page 
> Templates with email easier.
> 
> Even if all it supports is <p> and <br> that would be enough, but I'm 
> hoping there's something even more complete out there.  I don't need 
> something as general as, say, Lynx; these templates would be written 
> with a specific renderer in mind.

To clarify: you don't want the HTML tags merely stripped; you want to
replace e.g. br with a line break and p with, say, two line breaks?


FuManChu


From mdraghi at prosud.com  Tue Nov 16 08:26:04 2004
From: mdraghi at prosud.com (Mariano Draghi)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:26:04 -0300
Subject: save a dictionary in a file
In-Reply-To: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7BE3@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7BE3@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
Message-ID: <cncv1i$vqh$1@sea.gmane.org>

Batista, Facundo wrote:
> [Leif K-Brooks]
> #- Sounds pretty similar to shelve
> #- (http://python.org/doc/lib/module-shelve.html) to me. Have you
> #- considered using it instead?
> 
> We actually didn't know about it, and reinvented the wheel, :(

The problem is that reinventing the wheel in Python usually takes just 
three or four lines of code, I guess :p

> 
> Mariano, we need to use shelve there, :p

Indeed!

-- 
Mariano



From larsmtl at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  4 11:36:54 2004
From: larsmtl at yahoo.com (LarsenMTL)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 08:36:54 -0800
Subject: Python CGI - Accepting Input, Invoking Another Process,
	Ending CGI
References: <99351542.0411030837.beea2c7@posting.google.com>
	<cmb3nl$sj4$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <99351542.0411040836.225c77ba@posting.google.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote in message news:<cmb3nl$sj4$00$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> > Based on previous suggestions from this group, I'm attempting to write
> > a python CGI that takes input from an HTML form, invokes a second
> > python script using this input, tells the user that their process has
> > started, ends the cgi output and later emails the results of the
> > invoked script.
> > 
> > My problem is that no mater how I invoke the 2nd script (spawnlp with
> > P_NOWAIT, system with &, etc..) the CGI caller continues to run until
> > it finishes.  If you press the stop button or close the browser
> > certain portions of the 2nd script finish but not all of it.  In
> > paticular the 2nd script uses teTex (invoked by os.system) to process
> > some tex files, this always errors out if the browser is closed or
> > stopped.
> 
> Did you try to daemonize your script? That will decouple it from the running
> process, so maybe that helps. In the  aspn cookbook there is a good recipe
> for daemonizing.

Thanks.  I think I got it.  Looking at that recipe hinted me at the
idea that I need to close or redirect stdin, stdout and stderr.  Some
searches around here confirmed that.

Cheers.


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Nov  8 20:00:38 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 14:00:38 +1300
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
In-Reply-To: <cmoqn9$cbf$1@fred.mathworks.com>
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com> <2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<60dfb6f6.0411050715.601f381f@posting.google.com>
	<2v82u3F2dhtcpU1@uni-berlin.de> <cmoqn9$cbf$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <2vaj5oF2jl25lU1@uni-berlin.de>

JCM wrote:
> I think both liquids and gases are considered fluids.  Liquid Typing
> and Gaseous Typing would be sub-categories.

Hmmm. So maybe with liquid typing, your data sloshes
around in the bottom of your address space, whereas
with gaseous typing, it expands to fill all available
memory...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From carribeiro at gmail.com  Sat Nov 20 18:00:39 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 21:00:39 -0200
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <419fc77d$0$198$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.6614.1100891946.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<419E6C13.1040508@v.loewis.de>
	<mailman.6634.1100915976.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<419fc77d$0$198$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <864d370904112015007de3eaf4@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 23:38:56 +0100, Martin v. L?wis <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
> Terry Reedy wrote:
> > But, for whatever it is worth, the ref manual *does* label 'is not' as *an*
> > operator.  In this context, 'is not' is a compound (key)word with a space
> > (rather than a hyphen or neither).  Since English compounds can often be
> > written both with and without a space or hyphen, with the choice being a
> > matter of taste, the difference between 'IsNot' and 'Is Not' is rather
> > trivial
> 
> To a reader, but not in an implementation. I believe that Microsoft
> would have allowed "foo is not Nothing" if they knew how to implement
> it. In the compiler, input is split into tokens, and you can not only
> have space between them, but sometimes also line breaks and comments.
> It appears that the VB parser, when receiving the IsNot token,
> immediately checks whether the thing it got before is an expression.
> If this would have to take "is not" into account as well, it might
> become more complicated.
> 
> > And 'is_not' is the CS alternate spelling of 'is not' with ' ' changed to
> > '_' (instead of '-') to indicate that the space is connective, forming a
> > compound word.
> 
> And I firmly believe that Microsoft has only "connected" spellings in
> mind, in this patent application. The option of unconnected spelling
> (i.e. in multiple tokens) did not occur to them, or else they would
> have given that in the examples.
> 
> > In names, Python also requires, for obvious lexical
> > reasons, connective spaces ('_'s).  Recognizing 'is not' as a unit requires
> > a special rule; 'is_not' might have been more consistent with the rest of
> > Python, but Guido was and is a keywords minimizer.  Without knowing this
> > rule, one could easily parse 'a is not b' as 'a is (not b)' like Basic
> > does.
> 
> See, in Python, there is *no* special rule for 'is' 'not'. It just falls
> out naturally - the expression after 'is' just can't start with a 'not',
> since only tests can start with 'not'; expressions are a special case of
> test that can only start with '(', '+', '-', '~', '[', '{', '`', a name,
> a number, or a string.

I'm curious. I know that Python is not going to enter into a
'patent-filling' frenzy anytime soon. But isn't the 'is not' trick
also patentable on it's own? The reason I ask this is twofold:

1) I always found the "is not" with two tokens a novelty -- I knew no
other language before where this spelling was acceptable. But I am no
"linguist" (in the CS sense), either.

2) Some people seem to think that the better way to defend Open Source
applications against silly patents is to fill a lot of patents in
behalf of open projects, as a defensive measure. I don't have any clue
as to whether this would be effective in practice or not, but anyway,
it seems interesting.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov  8 08:18:45 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 08:18:45 -0500
Subject: mod_python, multiple calls to PythonAuthenHandler
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.08.09.08.47.408661@scanmine.com>
References: <pan.2004.11.08.09.08.47.408661@scanmine.com>
Message-ID: <AsKjd.13323$931.11468@lakeread01>

Rune Hansen wrote:

> I've posted this question on the mod_python mailing list but didn't get 
> much response, so I thought I'd post it here.
> 
> (My first attempt connected to an unrelated thread..sorry.
> Note-to-self:-must-get-more-coffee-before-posting-)
> 
> It seems to me that for each path element in a URI a mod_python handler
> will be invoked. This applies to PythonAuthenHandler,
> PythonHeaderParserHandler and so on.
> 
> Since I'm making a database request in my PythonAuthenHandler, this 
> quickly becomes a problem.
> 
> Example:
> http://lucene.moonspawn.scanmine.com/ =>
> 	AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: 1
> 	index got called once
> 
> http://lucene.moonspawn.scanmine.com/SearchHandler.py/search =>
> 	AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: 1
> 	AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: 2
> 	/search got called once
> 
> http://lucene.moonspawn.scanmine.com/search.html => (using mod_rewrite)
> 	AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: 1
> 	AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: 2
> 	AuthenHandler::authenhandler called: 3
> 	/search got called once
> 
> I get the same behavior on three separate installations
> 
> So, either I've got a miss-configuration which results in multiple calls 
> to handlers or.., this is expected behavior, and there is a technique to 
> avoid this or..., this is expected and, for reasons that escapes me, 
> desired behavior.
> 
> I'd greatly appreciate any help and suggestion
> 
> regards
> 
> /rune

Well, the thing that's missing here is the code of your AuthenHandler 
(or some detail about which standard component you think is being used). 
Is it possible you are making internal redirects, for example?

The information about using mod_rewrite does imply you are spending time 
on authentication rather more frequently than you strictly need to, but 
it's difficult to figure out from just the information given.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From jlnespoulous at netscape.net  Sat Nov 20 16:30:13 2004
From: jlnespoulous at netscape.net (Leuk)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 22:30:13 +0100
Subject: Help for newbie
References: <419f06a8$0$32335$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<cnnfe4$qce$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <419fb767$0$24768$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Many thanks for your information and your advices.
regards
Jean-Louis
"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> a ?crit dans le message de news: 
cnnfe4$qce$00$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Leuk wrote:
>
>> I would like to use ZODB, but I'm a newbie in Python, so I do not know if
>> it be more easy for me to use PostgreSQL.
>> Some one can tell me what database will be better to use? What are de
>> differencies between this two databases?
>
> To use zodb after you installed it is a piece of cake. It goes along these
> lines (they are from an actual project, so they aren't spiced up as proper
> example code:)
>
> db = ZODB.DB(ZODB.FileStorage.FileStorage(database))
> conn = db.open()
> dbroot = conn.root()
>
> As dbroot is a dictionary-like object, you can start inserting arbitrary
> objects there, as long as they extend from the class Persistent. There are
> tutorials/examples out there, that will show you the neccessary stuff.
>
> On the pro side, zodb is an object database - you can more or less stuff
> everything in there, and retrieve it as objects again - no object
> relational mapping and so on. Even complex object graphs can be stored, 
> n:m
> relations are simply modelled by python's list and dict types - actually,
> there are some zodb-classes that you need to use for practical reasons, 
> but
> the interface is the well-known one you love form your common python
> container objects ;)
>
> You also don't need any server infrastructure.
>
> The cons are to my POV:
>
> - the more explicit data model of an rdbms like postgres allows for easier
> migration. If your zodb storage contains objects of type foo, which you
> then alter, it can happen that restored objects are not what you expect
> them to be - they might miss data. While data migration is a matter in
> rdbms too, its somewhat easier due to the simpler structure of the data.
>
> - no builtin querying, let alone indexing. I've actually written my own
> object query language (which is fun for starters, but gets tedious). So if
> you are going to create much reports, zodb might not suit you so well. Of
> course you can write all sorts of extensions - ZCatalog is a powerful
> example - but in the end, you'll write a rdbms-like thingy on top of zodb.
> then a rdbms might be the betteor choice in the first place. And there is
> of course no shell-like interface to your db, as these are provided for 
> the
> rdbms out there.
>
> - collisions after concurrent modifications can be a nasty thing - an the
> docs are not to clear about what to do. It took me quite some time to 
> solve
> some issues with that.
>
> - the advantage of no need for infrastructure can be a disadvantage of
> course - as you have no model of acces rights on your data, you have to
> somehow insure that yourself. Having said that, one has to keep in mind
> that most database driven apps also only have one user for the connection.
> I once tried to utilize the elaborated oracle user rights management, and
> failed miserably - its a complicated endeavour.
>
> While the cons seem to outweight the pros in sheer number, my personal 
> exp.
> is that at least for prototyping and from a pure programmers POV, ZODB
> wins. Maybe if the project is mature enough, you can go and create
> object2relational mappings - but through developement, things are nicer in
> zodb.
>
> -- 
> Regards,
>
> Diez B. Roggisch 




From papillion at gmail.com  Wed Nov 10 20:32:21 2004
From: papillion at gmail.com (Anthony Papillion II)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:32:21 -0600
Subject: mod_python not working (showing source code)
Message-ID: <1100137677.4bQNs8XNANf1D1RB/G9RbQ@teranews>

Hello Everyone,

I have downloaded and installed mod_python and it doesn't seem to be
working. I am hoping someone can give me some pointers as to what I am doing
wrong. Here are the steps I've followed so far:

1. Installed mod_python from the rpm file.
2. Added LoadModule and AddModule directives to the httpd.conf file

Now, I have a file called mod_test.py that contains the following code:

#!/usr/bin/python

print "Test of mod_python"

When I call the file up in the browser, I simply see the python source. What
am I doing wrong?

Thanks!
Anthony




From milas_gi at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  8 20:50:45 2004
From: milas_gi at hotmail.com (tutu)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 17:50:45 -0800
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5992.1099726289.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5d1dd116.0411081750.629779e2@posting.google.com>

Maurice LING <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote in message 
> 3. I am not interested in the amount of time needed to develop it. But 
> only interested execution speed.

-If you really don't care about it, spend time developing it in C or
asambler or machine code, is it going to be faster, maybe?
-If you really don't care about it, write it in both, Java and Python
and decide for yourself about the speed.
-Do you honestly believe someone here can make those valid statements
you are waiting for to validate your unspoken reasons of this dilemma?

Here is how it goes:
No matter what others are going to try and persuade you about, you
will only make it right and probably fast enough when you will have
the experience to do it. Do you know Java better? go ahead and write
it in Java. Are you willing to learn Python and see for yourself if
the decision was right, I suggest you do that, I believe it should be
worthy. Are you afraid you are going to make the wrong decision?. You
must be mature and assume your decisions.

So, if you do have time my suggestion is:
Go ahead and try a few things in python (it seams you have some
reasons to do that already) and see if they are going to perform the
way you would like and if yes, make a plan and do it.
Success!!!

If it is not what you expected, do it in Java.
Success!!!

If you want to see reactions like the one from that Pythongoras, go
ahead and wait some more.


From ncoghlan at email.com  Tue Nov 30 05:51:27 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:51:27 +1000
Subject: The use of :
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6859.1101676234.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <89cc6e1f.0411251858.40b6bbc7@posting.google.com>	<pan.2004.11.26.08.33.40.219098@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>	<89cc6e1f.0411260953.4b6b98e7@posting.google.com>	<zyUpd.6$d74.2@read3.inet.fi>
	<41aa1abb$0$25542$636a15ce@news.free.fr>	<30ukhmF357ptdU1@uni-berlin.de>	<Avpqd.55491$Ni.1918466@twister1.libero.it>	<pan.2004.11.29.05.11.43.180223@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6859.1101676234.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41ac50ae$0$25767$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

BJ?rn Lindqvist wrote:
> Because it contains more non-significant symbols (, ), { and } that
> "steal" the programmers attention. But consider
> 
> def f(x, y, z)
>     print x, y, z
> 
> to
> 
> def f(x, y, z):
>     print x, y, z
> 
> IMHO, the colon-less variant is more readable than the one with the colon.  

Except that it is quite acceptable to do the following:

   def f(x, y, z,
         long_func_arg_name):
     long_func_arg_name(x, y, z)


   def f(x, y, z,
         long_func_arg_name)
     long_func_arg_name(x, y, z)

The colons do a decent job of flagging the beginning of suites, mainly because 
of Python general lack of *other* punctuation (e.g. the colon would be entirely 
ineffective at improving readability if every line ended with a semi-colon).

Cheers,
Nick.


From danperl at rogers.com  Sat Nov  6 12:28:35 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 12:28:35 -0500
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <wdWdnZ-fWZxWlBDcRVn-vw@rogers.com>


"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit at yahoo.com...
> Hans Nowak <hans at zephyrfalcon.org> wrote:
>
>> John Machin wrote:
>>
>> > Or is this a joke/troll?? I can't believe the "unimelb.edu.au"; surely
>> > a forgery.
>>
>> Is it just me, or is the climate in c.l.py getting less friendly to
>> newbies?  In any case,
>
> Interestingly enough, I sort of share your perception -- and I have
> noticed the same thing, and seen it remarked upon by others, in other,
> completely unrelated newsgroups as well, such as it.comp.macintosh.

I'm still one of the newbies and I was not reading this newsgroup a year 
ago, so I cannot draw any comparisons, but I wonder, has this group also 
grown much during this time?  Could this be a cultural thing like the 
difference between a small town culture and a big city culture?

> It's not, I think, about newbies in general: people who come and post
> help requests, without giving the information that's quite obviously
> indispensabile to let us help them, keep getting treated with
> unreasonable amounts of friendliness and courtesy even after many
> requests for more info go unheeded, for example.
>
> However, newbies who are clueless enough to come blasting in with the
> usual whines we've heard a zillion times -- Macs cost too much, Python
> is too slow, there's no apps for Macs, Python must absolutely add
> feature X or it will die, Apple's gonna go broke tomorrow, etc, etc --
> do appear to get on our collective nerves worse than their essentially
> indistinguishable precursors did last year, two years ago, &c.

I have complained myself about several aspects of Python that I was 
discovering as I was learning it (although I never said Python will die). 
But I have been programming for enough years to believe that I am entitled 
to have an opinion even in something that I am new at and that I am entitled 
to express that opinion.

On the other hand, as I become more experienced in Python and I have 
opportunities to help other people who are even newer at this than I am, I 
also feel some frustration when I do not get enough help from them to help 
them.  But I probably can still relate better to them because, like them, I 
still need help in so many areas.

IMO, we all must show more tolerance.  I believe though that newbies are 
naturally more tolerant of experts because newbies need the experts.  So I 
am making a plea particularly to experts to show more tolerance to newbies. 
The newbies' complaints come out of frustration, frustration just like 
yours, which shows in terms like "clueless", "blasting in", and "whines 
we've heard a zillion times", all in just one sentence (and that is in a 
discussion on friendliness towards newbies).

Are you learning any new subject now and are you involved in a newsgroup as 
a newbie?  If you're not doing that already, python experts, please try it 
and you'll probably see what it's like.  No better way to see the other 
side's point of view than being on the other side.

Dan 




From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Nov 11 12:23:03 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:23:03 +0100
Subject: Questions pending - please help
In-Reply-To: <200411111110.00909.philippecmartin@sbcglobal.net>
References: <200411111110.00909.philippecmartin@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20041111172303.GA23762@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 11:10:00AM -0600, Philippe C. Martin wrote:
> [...]
> 2) Is there a rule of thumb to follow when writing a c extention which will 
> ensure backward compatibility with earlier python versions: although I will 
> release the source of theses extentions, I cannot expect every customer to 
> own a compiler or know how to use it.

1) Develop against the oldest Python version you want to support. There are
   normally no incompatible API changes. 

2) Provide binaries for the platforms you want to support. Providing these for
   Windows and (maybe) MacOS is usually enough. Unix users normally prefer to
   have the software integrated with their package management anyway.

-- Gerhard
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From someone at microsoft.com  Sat Nov 27 17:46:14 2004
From: someone at microsoft.com (Jive)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 22:46:14 GMT
Subject: 1 file, multiple threads
References: <41a7000c$0$16489$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <Ws7qd.5822720$6p.937014@news.easynews.com>

    Other folks have answered your questions, although some of the answers
may be open to interpretation.

    I just want to throw in a warning.  Multi-threaded programming can be a
little tricky.
If you don't know what you are doing, or if you are not careful, you can
program
bugs that manifest themselves very rarely.  I've seen them that cropped up
only about
once every two months on average in a continuously running program.
Reproducing
the failure can be next to impossible.  Finding the bugs can be a nightmare.

    You can even write a program that works correctly "by accident".
Later you introduce an apparently innocuous change that introduces a bug,
but
it does not show up in testing.  Over the course of days or months you make
more
changes to the program.  The bug you introduced way back when finally
manifests
itself.  You will assume the problem was caused by the last change you made.
Big trouble.

Look before you leap.




From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Nov 12 16:48:20 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:48:20 -0600
Subject: Python 2.4: Why only assignments to None are forbiden?
In-Reply-To: <4195190f@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
References: <4195190f@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <41952FA4.8010605@colorstudy.com>

Josef Meile wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Textually from the highlights of python 2.4:
> 
> "Assigning to None - the compiler now treats assigning to None as a 
> SyntaxError."
> 
> I think in general assignments to built-in types, functions, and 
> variables should be also forbiden. It's a common mistake to do things 
> like this:
> 
>  >>> def getFileName(file):
> ...   parts=file.split('/')
> ...   return parts('/')[-1]
> 
> Specially if you come from python 2.1.x where "file" didn't exist. 
> Instead, there was "open"

Well, it's not really a mistake, because it works just fine and causes 
no problems.  I use builtin names often, as they are annoyingly very 
convenient local variables.  I try not to, but it still happens 
(especially file, though I make sure to distinguish between files and 
filenames).

Anyway, it's a big backward compatibility issue.  No one ever reassigns 
None, so it's not a problem.  Maybe True and False will go this way too 
(though that *will* cause backward compatible problems with code that 
preceded the True/False builtins, and so created its own True/False 
objects).

> On the example's context, file is a string and won't cause any damage 
> because it is inside a function, so, the scope is local and it will be 
> deleted after the function call. But think what would happen if somebody 
> defines "file" as a global variable and other people use that code? For 
> the author won't be any consequences at all, because if s/he does this, 
> it means that probably s/he isn't working with files, but if somebody 
> else takes that code and doesn't see this, then s/he will invest some 
> time trying to find the bug.

There are proposed optimizations that depend on there being no 
global-level redefinition of builtins, and there's a couple PEPs about 
this.  I think the ideas have been viewed favorably, but the 
implementations haven't been fully fleshed out, and kind of fell by the 
wayside.  They could still be picked up.  There were a few people who 
were concerned; I think boost particularly defines some public symbols 
like boost.int, which this would disallow.

Anyway, the much more conservative proposal that disallows global 
variables that share a name with a builtins seems reasonable and largely 
backward compatible.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Nov 22 18:50:47 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:50:47 -0800
Subject: Introspection Question: Determining subclass name in base class
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E324527B@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Stephen Nesbitt wrote:
> Here's my implementation problem. I have a base class which has the 
> responsibility for providing entry into the logging system. Part of 
> the class responsibility is to ensure that lagger names are 
> consistent. For all intents and purposes this class should be 
> considered abstract and will always be subclassed.
> 
> What I want to do is the following:
> - allow the logger name to set explicitly. I've accomplished this by 
> adding a loggerName parameter to __init__ in the base class.
> - if the loggerName variable is None, then set it to the name of the 
> subclass for which we are initing.
> 
> There seem to be two issues here.
> 1) determining the subclass name inside the _init__method in the 
> abstract base class. All my efforts so far have resulted in the 
> name of the base class rather than the calling subclass.

So far, I think I understood what you're going for, but not why you're
running into problems. Here's an example of what I think does what you
want:

>>> class A(object):
... 	def __init__(self, loggerName=None):
... 		self.loggerName = loggerName or self.__class__.__name__
... 		
>>> A().loggerName
'A'
>>> class B(A): pass
... 
>>> B().loggerName
'B'

> 2) setting the default of a parameter to a function.

Now this, I don't understand, and that makes me think I misinterpreted
all the previous statements. Show us some code to make it more clear...?


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Mon Nov  8 16:21:31 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 13:21:31 -0800
Subject: Determining combination of bits
In-Reply-To: <8KQjd.121796$hj.4674@fed1read07>
References: <x3Qjd.121786$hj.41260@fed1read07>
	<mailman.6124.1099945664.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8KQjd.121796$hj.4674@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <418ff674$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Sean Berry wrote:
> Just to set everyone's mind at ease... I haven't had a homework assignment 
> for about four years now.
OK, then here's a great little bit of education:

    n & -n == least significant bit of n

So, for example:

     def bits(n):
         assert n >= 0 # This is an infinite loop if n < 0
         while n:
             lsb = n & -b
             yield lsb
             n ^= lsb

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From isdito at hotmail.com  Sat Nov 20 18:27:49 2004
From: isdito at hotmail.com (israel diaz)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 00:27:49 +0100
Subject: PIL QUESTION
Message-ID: <BAY17-DAV11789D3318A94BAC585CA1C3C40@phx.gbl>

Hello I am writing this pyhton script

import Image,ImageFont,ImageDraw
ruta="C:/temp_mesh/"
nameF="ARIALNB.TTF"
nameI="mia.tif"
size_i=(256,512)
im=Image.new("RGBA",size_i)
fm=ImageFont.truetype ( ruta+nameF, 40 )
draw=ImageDraw.Draw(im)
print draw.textsize("hola mundo"),im.getbands()
for x in range(0,10):
    draw.text((20,x*51.2),"hola mundo",font=fm, fill="white")
im2=im.convert('L')
im.putalpha(im2)
im.save(ruta+nameI)

But I have a question how I can aligned to the other side in the right of the image

thanks for all and sorry for my bad engish
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From svenn.are at bjerkem.de  Sat Nov 13 07:09:36 2004
From: svenn.are at bjerkem.de (Svenn Are Bjerkem)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 13:09:36 +0100
Subject: Help on installing PyQt on MacOSX 10.3 needed
References: <2vhs13F2m9uktU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <2vmbs0F2oh5djU1@uni-berlin.de>

On 2004-11-11 20:14:45 +0100, Svenn Are Bjerkem <svenn.are at bjerkem.de> said:

> On 2004-11-09 22:52:18 +0100, Kevin Walzer <sw at wordtech-software.com> said:
> 
>> PyQt is installed in the site-packages directory on OS X--there's
>> nothing special you need to do, it "just works" and loads up fine.
> 
> Am I supposed to create static or dynamic libraries for sip and pyqt if 
> I only want to use with the MacOSX python?

Yes, I am.
I discovered that I followed an installation description that made 
static libraries. That little -k at the end in python configure.py -k 
was no good. I removed it, compiled sip and pyqt again, and then I 
could import those modules into python.

-- 
Svenn



From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Tue Nov  2 09:22:09 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 09:22:09 -0500
Subject: extending file?
In-Reply-To: <8vudnfFCkdgUDBrcRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
References: <mailman.5780.1099340819.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8vudnfFCkdgUDBrcRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <41879811.40002@bellsouth.net>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Chris Cioffi wrote:
>
>> Are there any docs or examples of extending the file type?  I work
>> with EDI messages that are very like text files, just with a few
>> quirks. ;-)  and I was wondering if I could strech and twist the built
>> in file type to make things a bit faster and more full featured.
>>
>> Specifically I would need to alter the iterator and ideally the line 
>> terminitor.
>
>
> It's unclear what you want to do.  Can you provide an example?
>
> Also consider whether you can achieve what you want merely
> by creating your own "file-like" object that wraps the
> standard file type.  This is the usual way to proceed.
>
> -Peter

I should really wait for the OP, but I've had too much caffeine this 
morning to just sit still.  An EDI message is a (fairly well) structured 
string of text (let's just say a file for now) that may consist of 
multiple interchanges, each interchange consisting of multiple segments 
(at least two, and each segment having a specific character denoting its 
end - all segments in an interchange will have the same segment 
terminator) and each segment consisting of multiple elements.  I believe 
the OP wants to be able to specify what character the file object will 
recognize as a line terminator (rather than the standard \n or \r\n), 
presumably so he can tell it that a segment terminator is the line 
terminator, do a readline(), and get an EDI segment instead of a 
"traditional" line of text.  Having dealt with EDI for nearly 6 years, I 
could see the benefit of this.  While I'm currently headed down the FSM 
route, it would be interesting to see the above mentioned alternative.

Jeremy Jones


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Nov 28 21:12:07 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:12:07 +1300
Subject: The use of :
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.29.06.12.15.87220@jerf.org>
References: <89cc6e1f.0411251858.40b6bbc7@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.26.08.33.40.219098@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<89cc6e1f.0411260953.4b6b98e7@posting.google.com>
	<zyUpd.6$d74.2@read3.inet.fi>
	<41aa1abb$0$25542$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<30ukhmF357ptdU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<Avpqd.55491$Ni.1918466@twister1.libero.it>
	<pan.2004.11.29.05.11.43.180223@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6859.1101676234.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.29.06.12.15.87220@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <30verqF35jijsU1@uni-berlin.de>

Jeremy Bowers wrote:
> The only punctuation you *need* is whitespace. See Forth

You don't even need that... see FORTRAN. :-)

DOI=1TO10-ly,

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Nov  4 05:01:24 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:01:24 +0100
Subject: pep 336:  Make None Callable
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <cmcr3h$p4r$02$1@news.t-online.com>

The Eternal Squire wrote:

> None?should?be?a?callable?object?that?when?called?with?any
> arguments?has?no?side?effect?and?returns?None.

Why would you stop there? 

>>> class BusyNone(object):
...     def __call__(self, *args, **kw):
...             return BusyNone
...     __getattr__ = __getitem__ = __add__ = __call__
...     def __str__(self):
...             return "BusyNone"
...     __repr__ = __str__
...
>>> BusyNone = BusyNone()
>>> BusyNone("a", 1)
BusyNone
>>> BusyNone[1:2]
BusyNone
>>> BusyNone.busyAttr
BusyNone
>>> BusyNone + 42
BusyNone
>>> len(BusyNone)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: len() of unsized object

Still room for improvement, but you should get the idea...

Peter



From ljz at asfast.com  Mon Nov 29 13:41:23 2004
From: ljz at asfast.com (Lloyd Zusman)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:41:23 -0500
Subject: [OT] Re: SysLogHandler is drivin me nuts PEBCAC
References: <f11c8440.0411250122.c600af1@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6782.1101394046.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<f11c8440.0411260207.555d2cc0@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6821.1101494250.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<f11c8440.0411290154.75eeea88@posting.google.com>
	<41AB58D4.2000902@dcube-resource.be>
Message-ID: <m3r7mcv6p8.fsf@asfast.com>

Jan Dries <jan.dries at dcube-resource.be> writes:

> Slightly OT, but regarding the title, shouldn't it be PEBKAC, since it's
> keyboard and not ceyboard?

Your computer didn't come with a ceyboard?  :)

-- 
 Lloyd Zusman
 ljz at asfast.com
 God bless you.



From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Nov 13 16:47:54 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 21:47:54 GMT
Subject: Python 2.4: Why only assignments to None are forbiden?
In-Reply-To: <cn40in$cj9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
References: <4195190f@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
	<cn40in$cj9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <eivld.25773$KJ6.22637@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> One perfectly good reason to assign to builtins (and there are others, 
> I'm sure) is to provide a "mock" function to replace a standard
> one, for use during automated testing.

That's understandable, but it doesn't work for None.  At the C
level there is a Py_None object which is the same singleton object
used by None.  If you replace the builtin None with a mock None
then almost certainly there will be strange effects.

Eg,

def spam():
   print "Here there be Vikings"

x = spam()

At this point, x contains the real None and not the mock one.

class MyList(list):
   def get(self, item):
     if item.startswith("__"):
       raise AccessDenied(item)
     return list.get(item)

x = MyList().get("wensleydale")


Again, x is the real None object and not the mock one.

So if reasonable code did the following

if x is None:
   print "Sorry, not even wensleydale"
else:
   print "Yes, we have it"

then it would break under the mock None case.

In theory it could be possible to make this work.  Setting
None in builtins could change some sort of proxy object at
the C level, and ... though the object ids wouldn't be right.
Hmmm.  It would be a lot of work for very, very little gain.

So while we do have

   Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.

it's more than trumped by

   Although practicality beats purity.

It's almost impossible to make a proxy None object work
correctly.

In a related topic, would you like to have a proxy for the
numbers 0, 1, 2, etc.?  Is None special because it's a
variable name that cannot be reassigned or is it not special
because it's just like other builtin objects that cannot
be replaced by user-defined objects?

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From sylvain.thenault at nospam.logilab.fr  Tue Nov 30 08:32:59 2004
From: sylvain.thenault at nospam.logilab.fr (Sylvain Thenault)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:32:59 +0100
Subject: weird behaviour of "0 in [] is False"
References: <pan.2004.11.30.12.57.59.582543@nospam.logilab.fr>
	<cohrvl$7eg$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.30.13.32.55.103783@nospam.logilab.fr>

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:18:30 +0100, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

>>>>> l = []
>>>>> 0 in (l is False)
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>> TypeError: iterable argument required
> 
> that should be clear - 0 in False can't work.

yes, I forget to mention that it was the third expression which was
bugging me.

>>>>> (0 in l) is False
>> True
>>>>> 0 in l is False
>> False
> 
> It seems to stem from a behaviour python exhibits in expressions like
> this:
> 
> 3 > 2  > 1
> 
> This yields True, while
> 
> (3 > 2 ) > 1
> 
> yields false. Chaining of operators gets translated like this:
> 
> 3 > 2 and 2 > 1
> 
> Look in section 5.9 of the language reference.
> 
> Then your expression gets translated to:
> 
> 0 in l and l is False
> 
> which yields False of course.

thanks, I had missed this part of the language reference !
Not yet found an misbehaviour in python... ;)

-- 
Sylvain Th?nault                               LOGILAB, Paris (France).

http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org




From exarkun at intarweb.us  Tue Nov  9 22:34:44 2004
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (exarkun at intarweb.us)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 03:34:44 GMT
Subject: html parsing?  Or just simple regex'ing?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.10.01.37.41.879705@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20041110033444.20649.651909805.divmod.quotient.1200@ohm>

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 01:37:46 GMT, Dan Stromberg <strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu> wrote:
>
> I'm working on writing a program that will synchronize one database with
> another.  For the source database, we can just use the python sybase API;
> that's nice and normal.
> 
> For the target database, unfortunately, the only interface we have access
> to, is http+html based.  There's same javascript involved too, but
> hopefully we won't have to interact with that.
> 
> So, I've got Basic AUTH going with http, but now I'm faced with the
> following questions, due to the fact that I need to pull some lists out of
> HTML, and then make some changes via POST or so, again over HTTP:
> 
> 1) Would I be better off just regex'ing the html I'm getting back?  (I
> suppose this depends on the complexity of the html received, eh?)

  Unlikely.  Regular expressions alone cannot parse HTML reliably.  If they could, we wouldn't need HTML parsers :)

> 
> 2) Would I be better off feeding the HTML into an HTML parser, and then
> traversing that datastructure (is that really how it works?)?

  Very probably.  There are a few in the standard library, and a whole lot of third party modules with various APIs, each with a particular kind of use in mind.

> 
> 3) When I retrieve stuff over http, it's clear that the web server is
> sending some kind of odd gibberish, which the python urllib2 API is
> passing on to me.  In a packet trace, it looks like:

  Note that the Transfer-Encoding is "chunked".  "ef1" is a hex-encoded chunk length prefix.  These appear before each group of bytes send to the client.  They let you know how much application-level data to expect.  Not having used urllib2 extensively, I can't say whether it is normal for you to be getting the chunk lengths from it or not, but it would _seem_ like something you should not be receiving  (that is, if I had written urllib2, you would not receive them ;).

  Jp


From jelle.feringa at ezct.net  Mon Nov  1 08:46:43 2004
From: jelle.feringa at ezct.net (Jelle Feringa // EZCT / Paris)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 14:46:43 +0100
Subject: newbie troubles: os.popen confusion
Message-ID: <20041101134549.2099CC000214@mwinf0302.wanadoo.fr>

Hi,

I'm learning python at the moment, and am trying to write some basic shell
scripts to start off with.
I having trouble executing programs from within python.
Very basic operations such as:

>>>listing = os.popen('dir /B').readlines()

work out just fine, but when I do the same thing with a specific program, it
doenst work out.

>>>mr = os.popen(str(os.environ['MI_ROOT']) + 'ray3.exe').readlines()
>>>mr
[]

So I tried calling the program using win32pipe.
The program gets launched, but when I try to connect to its output
--o.readlines()-- the script is stuck until the process is killed.
Also it seems to me that using win32pipe.popen2 options are specified in a
different way than in os.popen where I can specify these directly.
Could you put me in the right direction?

Cheers,

Jelle.

>>>mr, o = win32pipe.popen2(str(os.environ['MI_ROOT']) + 'ray3.exe')

	---actually "mr, o = win32pipe.popen2('ray3.exe')" does the same
thing, its finding the program in the environment---

>>>mr

<open file 'C:\Softimage\XSI_4.0\Application\bin\nt-x86-p3\ray3.exe', mode
'w' at 0x018735E0>

>>>o.readlines()

stops running the script until I kill the process






From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Nov 15 17:33:55 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 14:33:55 -0800
Subject: save a dictionary in a file
In-Reply-To: <10pi8f8ivf320a1@corp.supernews.com>
References: <2vsa8hF2oa58tU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<10pi8f8ivf320a1@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20041115142814.F93F.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
> 
> Luis P. Mendes wrote:
> 
> >
> > my program builds a dictionary that I would like to save in a file.
> 
> 
> As others have said, there should be no reason to convert to a list 
> before pickling -- AFAIK, there's no ban against pickling dictionaries.
> 
> You might also look into the Shelve module, which implements a 
> filesystem-persisting object with dictionary access syntax.  (And which, 
> IIRC, uses pickled dictionaries under the covers.)

It doesn't.  It uses a bsddb database.

A bsddb (really anydbm which can give you bsddb) database is merely a
string key->string value mapping (for btree and hash mappings). You
access it via string keys, and its values are automatically translated
to/from strings via Pickle. The only way you actually pickle and
unpickle dictionaries is by having a dictionary in a value.


 - Josiah



From exarkun at divmod.com  Fri Nov 26 16:45:28 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 21:45:28 GMT
Subject: asynchat and threading
In-Reply-To: <co80ng$53m$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <20041126214528.17481.1125125188.divmod.quotient.7070@ohm>

On 26 Nov 2004 19:38:24 GMT, ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong) wrote:
>According to Martin v. L???wis <martin at v.loewis.de>:
> > AFAICT, the main complaint is that it is tied to the TCP transport,
> > the sockets API, and the select/poll API. IOW, it cannot easily:
> > - integrate TLS on top of TCP (because TLS might involve no-data
> >    communications, e.g. when TLS negotation happens in the middle
> >    of a TLS session),
> 
> M2Crypto does SSL/TLS over Medusa/asyncore since 1999. ZServerSSL - SSL for
> Zope, which is Medusa-based - has been available since 1999 or 2000.
> 
> I don't imagine a pure Python TLS implementation is impossible to layer
> over asyncore either.

  For a more complete understanding of the complaints Martin is summarizing, see this python-dev thread:

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-November/thread.html#49815

  Jp


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov 16 04:18:42 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:18:42 GMT
Subject: Splitting a class definition into several files?
References: <46850fd1.0411151508.53dd3c53@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41997711.169780831@news.oz.net>

On 15 Nov 2004 15:08:31 -0800, jerry.levan at eku.edu (Jerry) wrote:

>My "main" class is getting a bit long...Is it possble to split a class definition
>into several files and then import the pieces to get the whole definition?
>
>Jerry
Ignoring the fact that this is not unlikely a symptom of a design problem ... ;-)

If you import from different files, the code in them will have distinct
globals() dictionaries -- i.e., the module dicts of the respective imported
modules. If that doesn't matter -- as e.g., if you wanted to define the functions
for methods that don't use globals (including the Main class name) then you could
use import to bind methods and initial class variable values -- remembering that
the latterbindingswithin the Main class.
_____________________________________________________________________

 >>> for line in file('main.py'): print line.rstrip()
 ...
_____________________________________________________________________

class Main(object):
    """
    Class Main demonstrates
    - importing functions from other module global scope to become methods
      showing distinction of global references from imported vs locally defined
      method functions.
    - including code into class via execfile
    - normal method and class variable definitions
    """
    # do example imports
    from main_methods_1 import main_method_1, trouble, trouble_global, foo_mm1
    # from main_methods_2 import ...
    # from main_methods_3 import ...

    # example execfile
    execfile("main_classvar_defs.py")

    #normal stuff
    def foo(x='foo local'): return locals().keys(), globals().keys()
    def normalmethod(self):
        "normalmethod defined in class Main of main.py"
        return self.normalmethod.__doc__
    normal_class_var = 'normal classvar defined in Main of main.py'
_____________________________________________________________________

 >>> for line in file('main_methods_1.py'): print line.rstrip()
 ...
_____________________________________________________________________

def main_method_1(self):
    "main_method_1 defined in main_methods_1.py global scope as function"
    return type(self).main_method_1.__doc__ # can't refer to Main.main_method_1

def foo_mm1(x='foo_mm1 local'): return locals().keys(), globals().keys()

trouble_global = 'global defined in global scope of main_methods_1.py'
def trouble(self):
    """
    this returns a global, but it's not Main's global
    and in fact is also given a Main class var binding via the import *
    """
    return trouble_global
_____________________________________________________________________

 >>> for line in file('main_classvar_defs.py'): print line.rstrip()
 ...
_____________________________________________________________________

cv1 = 'class var cv1 from execfile("main_classvar_defs.py")'
def xfmethod(self):
    "defined in main_classvar_defs.py via execfile -- note ref to Main ok"
    return Main.xfmethod.__doc__, Main.cv1
def foo_cv1(x='foo_cv1 local'): return locals().keys(), globals().keys()
_____________________________________________________________________

Now, importing main:

 >>> import main
 >>> help(main)

Help on module main:

NAME
    main

FILE
    c:\pywk\clp\jerry.levan\main.py

CLASSES
    __builtin__.object
        Main

    class Main(__builtin__.object)
     |  Class Main demonstrates
     |  - importing functions from other module global scope to become methods
     |    showing distinction of global references from imported vs locally defined
     |    method functions.
     |  - including code into class via execfile
     |  - normal method and class variable definitions
     |
     |  Methods defined here:
     |
     |  foo(x='foo local')
     |      #normal stuff
     |
     |  foo_cv1(x='foo_cv1 local')
     |
     |  foo_mm1(x='foo_mm1 local')
     |
     |  main_method_1(self)
     |      main_method_1 defined in main_methods_1.py global scope as function
     |
     |  normalmethod(self)
     |      normalmethod defined in class Main of main.py
     |
     |  trouble(self)
     |      this returns a global, but it's not Main's global
     |      and in fact is also given a Main class var binding via the import *
     |
     |  xfmethod(self)
     |      defined in main_classvar_defs.py via execfile -- note ref to Main ok
     |
     |  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     |  Data and other attributes defined here:
     |
     |  __dict__ = <dictproxy object at 0x009AEFF0>
     |      dictionary for instance variables (if defined)
     |
     |  __weakref__ = <attribute '__weakref__' of 'Main' objects>
     |      list of weak references to the object (if defined)
     |
     |  cv1 = 'class var cv1 from execfile("main_classvar_defs.py")'
     |
     |  normal_class_var = 'normal classvar defined in Main of main.py'
     |
     |  trouble_global = 'global defined in global scope of main_methods_1.py'

 >>> mlist = [k for k,v in vars(main.Main).items() if callable(v) and not k.startswith('__')]
 >>> mlist
 ['xfmethod', 'foo_mm1', 'main_method_1', 'trouble', 'foo_cv1', 'foo', 'normalmethod']
 >>> minst = main.Main()
 >>> for m in mlist: print '%14s: %r'%(m, getattr(minst, m)())
 ...
       xfmethod: ('defined in main_classvar_defs.py via execfile -- note ref to Main ok', 'class
 var cv1 from execfile("main_classvar_defs.py")')
        foo_mm1: (['x'], ['__builtins__', 'foo_mm1', '__file__', 'trouble_global', 'main_method_1
 ', '__name__', 'trouble', '__doc__'])
  main_method_1: 'main_method_1 defined in main_methods_1.py global scope as function'
        trouble: 'global defined in global scope of main_methods_1.py'
        foo_cv1: (['x'], ['__builtins__', '__name__', '__file__', 'Main', '__doc__'])
            foo: (['x'], ['__builtins__', '__name__', '__file__', 'Main', '__doc__'])
   normalmethod: 'normalmethod defined in class Main of main.py'


 >>> minst.trouble()
 'global defined in global scope of main_methods_1.py'
 >>> minst.trouble_global
 'global defined in global scope of main_methods_1.py'
 >>> minst.trouble_global is minst.trouble()
 True
 >>> minst.trouble_global is main.Main.trouble_global
 True

<disclaimer>I haven't used these techniques in any significant way, so testing is advised.
They're just what I thought of in response to your post, based on a few previous experiments.
;-)</disclaimer>

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sun Nov 28 18:33:13 2004
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 28 Nov 2004 15:33:13 -0800
Subject: Replacing words from strings except  'and' / 'or' / 'and not'
References: <coaeus$3pk$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>	<20041127182802.17481.1840580316.divmod.quotient.8311@ohm>
	<mailman.6853.1101656845.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0411281533.53c689e6@posting.google.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.6853.1101656845.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> >> > Is there a reason to use sets here? I think lists will do as well.
>     >> 
>     >> Sets are implemented using dictionaries, so the "if w in KEYWORDS"
>     >> part would be O(1) instead of O(n) as with lists...
>     >> 
>     >> (I.e. searching a list is a brute-force operation, whereas
>     >> sets are not.)
> 
>     Jp>   And yet... using sets here is slower in every possible case:
>     ...
>     Jp>   This is a pretty clear example of premature optimization.
> 
> I think the set concept is correct.  The keywords of interest are best
> thought of as an unordered collection.  Lists imply some ordering (or at
> least that potential).  Premature optimization would have been realizing
> that scanning a short list of strings was faster than testing for set
> membership and choosing to use lists instead of sets.
> 
> Skip

Jp scores extra points for pre-maturity by not trying out version 2.4,
by not reading the bit about sets now being built-in, based on dicts,
dicts being one of the timbot's optimise-the-snot-out-of targets ...
herewith some results from a box with a 1.4Ghz Athlon chip running
Windows 2000:

C:\junk>\python24\python \python24\lib\timeit.py  -s "from sets import
Set; x = Set(['and', 'or', 'not'])" "None in x"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 1.81 usec per loop

C:\junk>\python24\python \python24\lib\timeit.py  -s "from sets import
Set; x = Set(['and', 'or', 'not'])" "None in x"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 1.77 usec per loop

C:\junk>\python24\python \python24\lib\timeit.py  -s "x = set(['and',
'or', 'not'])" "None in x"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.29 usec per loop

C:\junk>\python24\python \python24\lib\timeit.py  -s "x = set(['and',
'or', 'not'])" "None in x"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.289 usec per loop

C:\junk>\python24\python \python24\lib\timeit.py  -s "x = ['and',
'or', 'not']" "None in x"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.804 usec per loop

C:\junk>\python24\python \python24\lib\timeit.py  -s "x = ['and',
'or', 'not']" "None in x"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.81 usec per loop

C:\junk>\python24\python \python24\lib\timeit.py  -s "from sets import
Set; x = Set(['and', 'or', 'not'])" "'and' in x"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 1.69 usec per loop

C:\junk>\python24\python \python24\lib\timeit.py  -s "x = set(['and',
'or', 'not'])" "'and' in x"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.243 usec per loop

C:\junk>\python24\python \python24\lib\timeit.py  -s "x = set(['and',
'or', 'not'])" "'and' in x"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.245 usec per loop

C:\junk>\python24\python \python24\lib\timeit.py  -s "x = ['and',
'or', 'not']" "'and' in x"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.22 usec per loop

C:\junk>\python24\python \python24\lib\timeit.py  -s "x = ['and',
'or', 'not']" "'and' in x"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.22 usec per loop

C:\junk>\python24\python \python24\lib\timeit.py  -s "x = set(['and',
'or', 'not'])" "'not' in x"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.257 usec per loop

C:\junk>\python24\python \python24\lib\timeit.py  -s "x = ['and',
'or', 'not']" "'not' in x"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.34 usec per loop

tee hee ...


From peter at somewhere.com  Fri Nov 26 03:26:55 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 09:26:55 +0100
Subject: Replacing words from strings except  'and' / 'or' / 'and not'
In-Reply-To: <co4s42$mkb$04$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.6781.1101393976.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<co4s42$mkb$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <co6pr9$aiq$1@swifty.westend.com>

Diez B. Roggisch schrieb:
> import sets
> KEYWORDS = sets.Set(['and', 'or', 'not'])
> 
> query = "test and testing and not perl or testit or example"
> 
> def decorate(w):
>     if w in KEYWORDS:
>         return w
>     return "*%s*" % w
> 
> query = " ".join([decorate(w.strip()) for w in query.split()])

Is there a reason to use sets here? I think lists will do as well.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 08:58:09 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 11:58:09 -0200
Subject: Named tuples
In-Reply-To: <Xns95A58409D7845duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<1gnf6b7.nnqkns1c991f3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6520.1100738474.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10pntj5m0spvl3f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.6521.1100740991.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<hcUmd.520265$mD.141102@attbi_s02> <419c20da.344317031@news.oz.net>
	<k3Wmd.45854$V41.9126@attbi_s52>
	<mailman.6539.1100779323.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns95A58409D7845duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <864d37090411180558ce425e@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 Nov 2004 12:58:49 GMT, Duncan Booth <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > There are a few requirements that can be imposed to avoid problems.
> > First, __names__ is clearly a property, acessed via get & set (which
> > allows to trap some errors). It should accept only tuples as an
> > argument (not lists) to avoid potential problems with external
> > references and mutability of the names. As for the validation, I'm not
> > sure if it's a good idea to check for strings. maybe just check if the
> > 'names' stored in the tuple are immutable (or perhaps 'hashable') is
> > enough.
> >
> 
> Your idea of a __names__ attribute suffers from a problem that the common
> use case would be to return a tuple with appropriate names. Right now you
> can do that easily in one statement but if you have to assign to an
> attribute it becomes messy.
> 
> An alternative would be so add a named argument to the tuple constructor so
> we can do:
> 
>         return tuple(('1', '2'), names=('ONE', 'TWO'))
> 
> and that would set the __names__ property. If you allow this then you can
> make the __names__ property readonly and the problem of introducing a cycle
> in the __names__ attributes goes away.

I think that a better way to solve the problem is to create a names
method on the tuple itself:

return ('1', '2').names('ONE', 'TWO')

It's shorter and clean, and avoids a potential argument against named
parameters for the tuple constructor -- none of the standard
contructors take named parameters to set extended behavior as far as I
know.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 19 04:58:17 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:58:17 +0100
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
	number of output arguments)
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6361.1100470915.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cn95k1$bfq$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6371.1100498345.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnb7hi.1hwbltbftm6c1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6392.1100556222.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbg4k.13z20mj1w1o0ysN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de> <419bbf2a.319309032@news.oz.net>
	<1gnf7n6.1spfeu41yhjcdaN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<419cc167.385418983@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <1gnhvee.q8h31aastcqN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:

> >? No they're not -- a caller knows them, in order to be able to call
> >with named argument syntax.
> >
> I guess you mean keyword arguments, so yes, 

I hate to call them 'keyword' arguments when they aren't (check with the
keyword module: it will confirm they aren't keywords!-).

> but for other args I would argue that the caller's
> knowledge of formal parameter names really only serves mnemonic purposes.

How does that differ from returning a tuple-with-names?

> I.e., once the calling code is written, e.g. an obfuscated-symbols
> version of the function may be substituted with no change in program
> behavior. So in that sense, there is no coupling: the writer of the

If the caller doesn't use argument names, you can change argument names
without breaking the caller.

If the caller doesn't use field names in a returned tuple-with-names,
you can change the field names without breaking the caller.

I don't see any difference.

> calling code is not forced to use any of the function's internal names

Same for a tuple-with-names being returned.

> in _his_ source code. This is in contrast with e.g. a returned dict or
> name-enhanced tuple: he _is_ forced to use the given actual names in _his_
> code, much like keyword arguments again.

Dicts are another issue.  As for tuples-with-names, no way:

    a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i = time.localtime()

this works, of course, and the caller doesn't have to know which field
is named tm_day and which one tm_hour or whatever else, unless the
caller WANTS to use such names for mnemonic purposes.

The situation is as strictly parallel to passing functions to ordinary
Python functions as two issues can ever be in programming: foo(a, b, c)
works but so does foo(bar=b, baz=a, fee=c) if that's the calling style
the caller prefers for mnemonic/clarity/style reasons.


Alex



From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Tue Nov  9 12:29:11 2004
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 09:29:11 -0800
Subject: should i start looking for a new list?
In-Reply-To: <20041109101248.F1B661C001B2@mwinf0101.wanadoo.fr>
References: <20041109101248.F1B661C001B2@mwinf0101.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <200411090929.11602.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

Being a fellow programmer who also has poor style and limited training, I 
think your code may be a little to cryptic for people to decipher and thus 
come up with answers to your questions. I say this because it has been said 
to me on more than one occasion--and I'm sure it will be said to me yet again 
in the future as well. Perhaps someone might point you to a python style 
manual:

> i = 0
> for x in hour:
> ? ? skyName = skiesok[i]
> ? ? print skyName
> ? ? number = str(skyName[3:-4])
> ? ? oconv, oo, oe = win32pipe.popen3('oconv -i no_sky.oct'\
> ? ? +' sky'+number+'.sky'+' > '+'tmpOct'+number+'.oct')
> ? ? psign, po, pe = win32pipe.popen3('psign -h 16 '\
> ? ? +str(day)+' /'+str(month)+' / '+number+':00'+' > label'+number+'.pic')
> ? ? rpict, ro, re = win32pipe.popen3('rpict -vf view.vf '+ambparr+'
> '+'tmpOct'+number+'.oct'\
> ? ? +' | '+'pfilt -x /2 -y /2'\
> ? ? +' | '+'pcompos - 0 0 label'+number+'.pic 0 0'\
> ? ? +' > '+'tmp'+number+'.pic') 
> ? ? i = i +1

On Tuesday 09 November 2004 02:12 am, Jelle Feringa // EZCT / Paris wrote:
> I've been posting some of my most burning (newbie) questions to this list,
> and most of them have been unanswered.
> Should I be posting these questions at a different list, since their
> technical level is quite low? Am I looking for answers in the right place?

-- 
James Stroud, Ph.D.
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
611 Charles E. Young Dr. S.
MBI 205, UCLA 951570
Los Angeles CA 90095-1570
http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From ngps at netmemetic.com  Sun Nov  7 19:40:49 2004
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 00:40:49 GMT
Subject: executing python code
References: <cmgvvd$chn$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<cmh1t7$d9p$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<418c0e56_1@omega.dimensional.com> <x7y8hfr9wu.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <cmmfah$2gg$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg>

According to Mike Meyer  <mwm at mired.org>:
> I find that symlinking ~/src/python/mycode.py to ~/bin/mycode means I
> get to invoke it without having to specify the extension, and don't
> have to reinstall the file if I change it.

I find that I hardlink them. I'm also more likely to edit ~/bin/mycode than
~/src/mycode.py.

Cheers.

-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://sandbox.rulemaker.net/ngps -+- M2Crypto, ZServerSSL for Zope, Blog
http://www.sqlcrypt.com           -+- Transparent AES Encryption For SQLite


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  5 02:02:09 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:02:09 +0100
Subject: dijkstra algorithm by object oriented
References: <20041104102844.F818.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<002c01c4c2d7$3af24690$5f4f81d9@ricardownj1130>
	<mailman.5947.1099624780.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gmrpqw.1omlhxkz9r7yN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

> "Ricardo Batista" <batista.ric at iol.pt> wrote:
> > 
> > But i need it for a homework.
> 
> We try not to do homework here.

Well, Ricardo's trying not to do homework there either, so there seems
to be the basis for mutual understanding...


Alex


From jerry at jerrysievers.com  Wed Nov 17 11:19:48 2004
From: jerry at jerrysievers.com (Jerry Sievers)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 11:19:48 -0500
Subject: thread, threading; how to kill a thread?
Message-ID: <m37jokwiqj.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>

Greetings Pythonists;

I have limited experience with threaded apps and plenty with old style
forked heavyweight multi-processing apps.

Using Python 2.3.3 on a Redhat 7.x machine.

Wondering if there is a simple way from a main python program to kill
a running thread?  I see with the 'threading' module the way daemonic
threads behave when the main program finishes.

But suppose  we have a simple thread running a function like;

def timedLoop():
    while True:
        time.sleep(10)
        doSomething()

All I am trying to do is stop that thread immediatly from the main
program and it is unclear how to do this.  I see that using
del(threadObj) on the thread object that's running the loop function
does nothing.

Didn't notice anything obvious in the docs like a 'kill' method or
similar.  I don't necessarily want the main program to exit, just to
kill one or more threads.

Locks, conditions, semafores, signals?

ARG!  For heavens sake, what am I missing?

Thanks


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Sievers   305 854-3001 (home)     WWW ECommerce Consultant
                305 321-1144 (mobile    http://www.JerrySievers.com/


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Sat Nov  6 08:57:21 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 14:57:21 +0100
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmgcp1$hpk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncong4u.1tk.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmggel$t2o$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cmggh2$t2o$01$2@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5996.1099739023.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmil81$184$01$1@news.t-online.com>

> Sure, but the name mangling schemes are certainly well-defined.  The GNU
> c++filt program on my Mac understands the following formats according to
> its --help output:
> 
>     none,auto,gnu,lucid,arm,hp,edg,gnu-v3,java,gnat
> 
> I don't know what most of them are, but I guess c++filt does.  I imagine
> something like ctypes could be trained to know how to decipher the
> signatures as well.  There's still the problem of templates.

The name mangling is not the important part - memory layout of the objects
is. As setting members is made due to offsets to the objects address in
memory, one has to know exactly in which order declared and possibly
inherited members are layed out. And as this is not part of the c++
standard, every compiler does it as it suits it.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From alban at magproductions.nl  Mon Nov  8 08:02:43 2004
From: alban at magproductions.nl (Alban Hertroys)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 14:02:43 +0100
Subject: psycopg, transactions and multiple cursors
Message-ID: <cmnqpk$2gh$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>

Oh no! It's me and transactions again :)

I'm not really sure whether this is a limitation of psycopg or 
postgresql. When I use multiple cursors in a transaction, the records 
inserted at the start of the transaction aren't visible to those later 
on in that transaction (using a different cursor).

Attached is a simplified example (the except's are a bit blunt, I know) 
of what I'm trying to do. In reality, the different cursors are 
sometimes run in differeent threads, or they're nested, which is why I 
can't use the same cursor for all queries.

Am I doing something silly again or is this a bug (in what?)? Does 
anybody here have some ideas about a solution for this problem? What is 
your credit card number (No, don't answer that!)? What will I learn this 
time?

Regards,

Alban Hertroys,
MAG Productions.
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From jpmnews at free.fr  Tue Nov 30 01:55:33 2004
From: jpmnews at free.fr (CptPicard)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 07:55:33 +0100
Subject: Random number generation from functions
In-Reply-To: <GZLqd.29561$1u.7448@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
References: <GZLqd.29561$1u.7448@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <41ac1979$0$2122$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

drs wrote:
> Is there any way to generate random numbers based on arbitrary real valued
> functions? I am looking for something like random.gauss() but with natural
> log and exponential functions.
> 
> thanks,
> 
> -d
> 
> 
I remember for having used it on a gaussian generator that you can do that very 
easily by yourself:
- you generate a random real number in the range [0 .. 1],
- then you apply an inverse probability density function (e.g. inverse gaussian 
pdf : http://www.itl.nist.gov/div898/software/dataplot/refman2/auxillar/rigpdf.htm),
and you have then your random number following the specified law (here gaussian).


From claird at lairds.us  Sun Nov 14 13:08:05 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 18:08:05 GMT
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Nov 10)
References: <mailman.6233.1100114629.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <s1ik62-qcv.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <mailman.6233.1100114629.5135.python-announce-list at python.org>,
Cliff Wells <python-list at python.org> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>    The Eternal Squire tables PEP 336 which suggests making None callable.
>    Yes, that's his name:
>        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/249224.html
			.
			.
			.
A thoughtful correspondent points out the error (my judgment, not 
his) of letting "table" slip through as a verb, for the reasons
explained in <URL:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_words_having_different_meanings_in_British_
and_American_English >.
At this point, I can only apologize to readers, and note that the
Eternal Squire presented the proposal, while others largely 
deprecated it.


From simon.brunning at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 04:09:56 2004
From: simon.brunning at gmail.com (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:09:56 +0000
Subject: HTML stylesheet expander?
In-Reply-To: <8idd72-j1o.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <8idd72-j1o.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c60411240109368b1658@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:51:08 -0800, Roger Binns <rogerb at rogerbinns.com> wrote:
> Does anyone have any code or pointers to something
> that can take some HTML with CSS style information
> and expand it into HTML that works pre-CSS.

I'm not sure such a thing would be possible. You could convert some
CSS styling into roughly equivalent HTML, but you can do things with
CSS that simply aren't possible with HTML alone. What would you expect
to be done with that?

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B,
simon at brunningonline.net,
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/


From rtilley at vt.edu  Fri Nov  5 23:36:57 2004
From: rtilley at vt.edu (Brad Tilley)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 23:36:57 -0500
Subject: Python for Reverse Engineering
In-Reply-To: <418c50ad$1_3@omega.dimensional.com>
References: <cmhdi4$7vi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<418c50ad$1_3@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <418C54E9.2000409@vt.edu>

Michael Fuhr wrote:
> Brad Tilley <rtilley at vt.edu> writes:
> 
>>A friend of mine wrote an algorithm that generates strings. He says that 
>>it's impossible to figure out exactly how the algorithm works. That may 
>>be true, but I think if I had enough sample strings that I could write a 
>>program to identify patterns in the strings and then produce strings 
>>with similar patterns. He disagrees with me. He gave me 100 strings to 
>>analyze.
> 
> 
> What input, if any, does the algorithm take?

I don't know, but I'm guessing that there is none.

> What are the strings used for?

To unlock an application he wrote (software key).

> Care to post the 100 strings so others can have a look?

I'd rather not do that.

> Reading about cryptanalysis might prove fruitful.  I suspect the
> number of "impossible to figure out" algorithms is far less than
> the number of algorithms whose developers initially made that claim.

I suspect you're right.


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Nov 17 15:01:06 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:01:06 +0100
Subject: psSerial: how to write a single byte value to the serial port?
References: <5a050156.0411170057.6c27a6a4@posting.google.com>
	<419b2f5f.282498301@news.oz.net>
	<5a050156.0411171153.6f04b454@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cngalv$t5j$05$1@news.t-online.com>

> I assume the string print ser.write() will append null characters to the
> end.

Why do you assume that? Its not said anywhere, and its wrong. A string
consists only of the characters you can "see" - if python usues C
convention for 0-termination or othear means is an implementation detail
none of your concern.

> byte = chr(0x40)
> ser.write(byte)

>>> type(byte)
<type 'str'>

Its a string as well.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  5 01:40:24 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:40:24 +0100
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmp6xu.zmiw6gs3250sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5890.1099529745.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmpyz8.11h86a71kjmdttN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5916.1099587353.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdntd$788$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5920.1099589545.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdrhf$d2c$04$1@news.t-online.com> <2v02svF2gjirkU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1gmroxp.1quw9x4thayyoN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:

> Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> > I can remeber abusing 32bit pointers in 68k processors by
> > altering the most-significant byte.
> 
> Apple did this in early versions of the Memory Manager
> of classic MacOS, using the upper 8 bits of a Handle
> for various flags. You weren't supposed to make any
> assumptions about what the upper byte contained, but
> of course some people did... and their applications
> broke when 32-bit addressing came in...

I believe many implementations of high-level languages on machines where
addresses had to be aligned used LOW bits similarly.  Say addresses of
integers need to be even or else a bus error will occur.  Then, a word
that is used to hold an integer address has its low bit 'available' as a
flag -- it needs to be cleared before it's dereferenced, anyway.

This seems reasonably sound because, even if a later model of the CPU
should be extended to allow misaligned addresses, the OS need not
support that.  Misaligned addresses can pay substantial performance
prices for little gain -- not sure about the state of play these days,
but just a few years ago you could boost the performance of some C codes
on intel CPUs (which always allowed address misalignment) quite a bit by
recompiling with flags telling the compiler to ensure addess alignment.

So, the low bit, when set, could indicate we're pointing to a Bignum
(like a Python long), when clear, that we're pointing to an ordinary
small integer, for example -- or other such dychotomous distinctions.

Of course, such an address-plus-flag must be handled as a bitmask (to
examine and clear the flag) or a pointer, interchangeably.


Alex


From valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk  Fri Nov 19 09:42:52 2004
From: valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk (Valkyrie)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:42:52 +0800
Subject: Question about thread
Message-ID: <1100875373.911763@eng-ser6>

Refering to the following codes I found, there is nothing displayed in the
console, may I ask why?

def thrd(param): # the thread worker function
    print "Received",param

import thread
for i in range(5): # start five threads passing i to each one
    thread.start_new_thread(thrd,(i,))

Thanks in advance


From mark.doberenz at righthemisphere.com  Tue Nov 30 17:59:21 2004
From: mark.doberenz at righthemisphere.com (Mark Doberenz)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 11:59:21 +1300
Subject: Run an python method from C++
Message-ID: <7A977E70F2DA7446B6F631A8A66CF18F01754C47@deep.cadtech>

--- I'm trying to run a method in a python file called pyFile.py...
 
class dc:
    def proc1(var1):
        print "Proc1 was run:",var1
    def main():
        pass
    if __name__ == "__main__":
        main()
 
--- and here's my c program:
 
int main(){
    printf("Hello World!\n");
    PyObject *mainModule,*globals,*pyRunFile,*runMethod;
    FILE *pythonFileP;
    Py_Initialize();
    pyProxy *dc = new pyProxy();
    char *filename = "pyFile.py";
    pythonFileP = fopen(filename,"r+");
    if (pythonFileP != NULL){
        mainModule = PyImport_AddModule("__main__");
        globals = PyModule_GetDict(mainModule);
        pyRunFile =
PyRun_File(pythonFileP,filename,Py_file_input,globals,globals);
        runMethod = PyObject_CallMethod(pyRunFile,"proc1","s","Blah");
        fclose(pythonFileP);
        Py_Finalize();
    }else{
        printf("File not opened!\n");
    }
    return 0;
}
 
--- It's crashing when I try to do the PyObject_CallMethod.  How do I
get at this method?  I'm not sure what the python file needs to look
like either.  I just put it in the class, but that didn't help either.
 
Thanks for any help!
 
Mark
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From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov 16 15:03:53 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:03:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: get function arguments
References: <cndm3b$lin$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <loom.20041116T210156-197@post.gmane.org>

Benny Mohr <news5 <at> bennymo.ch> writes:
> 
> How can I get the list of argumens of this function?

Is this what you mean?

>>> def myFunc(a,b,c='default'):
... 	pass
... 
>>> myFunc.func_code.co_varnames
('a', 'b', 'c')

I don't know where (if?) the func_code attributes are documented, but you should
be able to figure them out with a little object introspection (e.g. dir or an
editor like PythonWin that does some code completion).

Steve



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Nov 26 17:18:04 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 17:18:04 -0500
Subject: Number of colors in an image
References: <mailman.6820.1101494223.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uekigxnj7.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Laszlo Zsolt Nagy <gandalf at geochemsource.com> writes:

> How can I determine the number of colors used in an image? I tried to
> search on Google but I could figure out. I read the PIL handbook but I
> do not see how to do it. Can anyone help?

I saw your later post about using an external ImageMagick, but just in
case you do want to try it with PIL, one approach is to get the raw
data from PIL for each band, combining them into a tuple for the color
code, and then constructing a dictionary to count the colors.

For example, for an RGB image:

    import sys
    from PIL import Image
    from itertools import izip, repeat

    if __name__ == "__main__":

        im = Image.open(sys.argv[1])
        r = im.getdata(0)
        g = im.getdata(1)
        b = im.getdata(2)

        # Use a dictionary to count colors by constructing it with an
        # iterator of tuples of (pixel,1).  The inner izip makes each
        # pixel tuple out of the individual band values, and the outer
        # izip combines it with the infinitely repeating 1 to generate
        # the values for the dictionary constructor.
        colors = dict(izip(izip(r,g,b), repeat(1)))

        print 'Number of colors =', len(colors)

For a greyscale, or single banded image, it should be faster just to
use the built-in PIL "histogram" method and take the length of the
resulting list.  You could also generalize the above to handle CMYK
too by using getbands() to dynamically work with as many bands as
available.

The use of the itertools functions helps to keep memory usage down
(but does require Python 2.3+) in terms of intermediate object
creation, but it'll still be fairly wasteful since the getband()
methods return a full list of integer values for the image pixels, and
the dictionary will have to have a tuple and value for each unique
color entry.

On my older PIII-450 desktop with Windows, this processes a 1416x1028
RGB image with 269750 colors in under 12 seconds.  (A 3.2GHz P4
running FreeBSD does the same image in about 2s).  It appears to be
about 5-6 times faster than a simple nested for loop processing each
pixel (via PILs getpixel()).  Of course, it's nowhere near nowhere
near what some good C/C++ code could do if it had direct access to the
image data.

-- David



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Nov 19 12:29:00 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:29:00 GMT
Subject: avoiding nested try/excepts
In-Reply-To: <2c60a528.0411190416.25fc82f@posting.google.com>
References: <FA7nd.49980$V41.32722@attbi_s52>
	<2c60a528.0411190416.25fc82f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <w3qnd.536700$mD.73440@attbi_s02>

Andrew Clover wrote:
> Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>         except:
>>             log(x)
>>             raise
> 
> 
> (Of course 'except:' is rarely a good idea! You probably want to
> exclude at least MemoryError - as log() might then fail - and possibly
> also KeyboardInterrupt, SystemExit depending on what you're doing.)

So what's the idiom for catching all exceptions *except* 
MemoryError/KeyboardInterrupt/SystemExit?  Too bad we won't get our new 
Exceptions hierarchy until Python 3000...

Steve


From foo at bar.com  Wed Nov 10 08:07:35 2004
From: foo at bar.com (Steve Menard)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:07:35 -0500
Subject: possible to pass python objects into java without jython?
In-Reply-To: <4191912d$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
References: <mailman.6140.1099997924.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<jkfkd.70767$QQ5.1438243@weber.videotron.net>
	<4191912d$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <Lookd.43308$ak3.1614129@wagner.videotron.net>

Maurice LING wrote:
> 
>>
>> The simple answer is no. The complex answer is maybe, but not without 
>> some work on your part.
>>
>> As part of JPype I made the opposite : allow Python to use Java 
>> classes. That was easy as python is very dynamic.
>>
>> Going the other way around .... I don;t see how. The java part must 
>> want to receive a specific Java type. Even if that type is Object (the 
>> root of all object types in Java), tehre is no way for Python object 
>> to be one of those.
>>
>> Case #1 : the "main" program is in Python, and the Java type to be 
>> received is a Java interface. In that specific case, JPype 
>> (http://jpype.sourceforge.net) can help you. You can "wrap" your pO 
>> into the correct Java type and apss it in.
>>
>> Otherwise, as has been mantioned before, you will need some kind of 
>> remoting mechanism. Corba might provide a middle ground, or XML-RPC/SOAP.
>>
>> Good luck.
>>
>> Steve
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Referring to this scenario again.....
> 
> pA.py contains
> imports (something non-pure python)
> def A(n):
>    ...(does something)...
>    returns pO
> 
> pB.py comtains
> import pA
> def B(n):
>    (does something)
>    x = pA.A(n)
>    (does more things)
> 
> Perhaps if we lax the problem a little and allow Jython to be in 
> consideration and pB.py is implemented in Jython (as jyB.py), then using 
> jythonc to convert it into a Java package (jyB.jar containing 
> jython.jar, jyB.class and jyB$Inner.class). Am I then able to import jyB 
> in my Java codes? Is it possible to use Jython as the middle ground, 
> instead of CORBA or SOAP etc etc?
> 
> Thanks
> Maurice

Jython has a Java API that allows calling Python code. The simplest way 
however would be to turn your pB into a class implementing a given Java 
interface. Then java code can easily instantiate your Python class and 
use it through the interface.

However the problem remains ... just what kind of object is this pO ? 
Using Jython will not magically allow regular Java code to understand 
python objects. NAd you still have to bridge between CPython and Jython ...

Steve


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Sat Nov 13 18:18:08 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 01:18:08 +0200
Subject: [PATCH] Some new stuff
References: <newscache$7c357i$0gl$1@asterix.tee.gr>
Message-ID: <t45dp05hreth39ti4pbl40hj46r1pljmbn@4ax.com>

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 00:55:12 -0800, rumours say that Stelios Xanthakis
<sxanth at ceid.upatras.gr> might have written:

>Hi all.

Hi Stelios.

>Basically, I'd like to use python as my system shell. It's not suitable 
>for a general purpose shell but since it is very programmable it can 
>eventually do whatever bash does and even more.

You might like to take a look at IPython then:

http://ipython.scipy.org/

>One thing I'd like python to do is: attach the *python code* of a 
>function to a function object. The same for class.
>
>This can be done in python as it is but it doesn't feel very right. I 
>think it should be the job of the parser. So there is a patch vs 2.3.4 at:
>  http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~sxanth/ISYSTEM/python-PIESS.tar.bz2

If you don't have an account already in sourceforge.net (where Python
sources are located so far), you could create one, and submit your
patches there; you might also want to subscribe to the Python-Dev
mailing list:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev

since your post would be considered more on-topic if posted there.
Nonetheless, you are most welcome as a contributing pythonista
("santinista pou'xw" - non-greeks forgive my greeklish pun :)

>With this patch when the command line option -P is passed to python,
>all functions and classes have an extra member __pycode__ which is the
>code of the thing!

<snip>
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
"Tssss!" --Brad Pitt as Achilles in unprecedented Ancient Greek


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Nov 15 10:42:15 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:42:15 +0100
Subject: Python to measure HTTP and HTTPS performances: best way ???
References: <5c184570.0411120240.6ef29928@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.15.15.42.12.832886@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Fri, 12 Nov 2004 02:40:13 -0800 schrieb vincent delft:

> I want to write a script that will monitore the performance of a web
> application delivering HTTP and HTTPS pages.
> 
> I would like to know the best way to do it...

Hi, 

I did the same some days ago. Here is my code:
#!/usr/bin/env python
# -*- coding: iso-8859-1 -*-


# Python Imports
import os
import sys
import time
import base64
import signal
import urllib2

MAX_PROCESSES=40

URL="https://yourserver/....?var=foo..."

# HTTP Basic Auth
USER="..."
PASSWORD="..."

def usage():
    print """Usage: %s
StressTest ...
    """ % (os.path.basename(sys.argv[0]))

def mache_stress():
    dauer_list=[]
    try:
        while 1:
            request=urllib2.Request(URL)
            base64string=base64.encodestring('%s:%s' % (
                USER, PASSWORD))
            request.add_header("Authorization", "Basic %s" % base64string)
            start=time.time()
            fd=urllib2.urlopen(request)
            fd.read()
            dauer=time.time()-start
            print "%s OK %05.2f" % (os.getpid(),
                                    dauer)
            dauer_list.append(dauer)
    except KeyboardInterrupt:
        if dauer_list:
            all=0
            for d in dauer_list:
                all+=d
            print "Ende %s %s Requests %05.2f avg." % (
                os.getpid(), len(dauer_list), all/len(dauer_list))
        raise

def main():
    if len(sys.argv)!=1:
        usage()
        sys.exit(1)

    pids=[]
    try:
        print "Mit CTRL-C beenden."
        print "URL:", URL
        print "Anzahl der Prozesse:", MAX_PROCESSES
        for i in range(MAX_PROCESSES):
            pid=os.fork()
            if not pid:
                # Hier ist das Kind
                mache_stress()
            else:
                pids.append(pid)
        os.waitpid(0, 0)
    except KeyboardInterrupt:
        #for pid in pids:
        #    os.kill(pid, signal.SIGINT)
        pass
        
if __name__=="__main__":
    main()



From michael.bierenfeld at web.de  Mon Nov 29 04:54:31 2004
From: michael.bierenfeld at web.de (michael)
Date: 29 Nov 2004 01:54:31 -0800
Subject: SysLogHandler is drivin me nuts PEBCAC
References: <f11c8440.0411250122.c600af1@posting.google.com>	<mailman.6782.1101394046.5135.python-list@python.org>	<f11c8440.0411260207.555d2cc0@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6821.1101494250.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f11c8440.0411290154.75eeea88@posting.google.com>

Vinay Sajip <vinay_sajip at red-dove.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.6821.1101494250.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> michael wrote:
> > Yep it was incomplete heres the complete config as it has to be
> > 
> [config file snipped]
> 
> The complete file looks OK.

Thx. with this file it is working. The syslogd configuration under AIX was buggy.

regards

Michael


From pwatson at redlinepy.com  Wed Nov 24 17:47:28 2004
From: pwatson at redlinepy.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:47:28 -0600
Subject: Global surprise
References: <co2vp1$ec9$1@namru.matavnet.hu>
Message-ID: <30khc8F2uk5osU1@uni-berlin.de>

"Nick" <nospam at nnn.com> wrote in message 
news:co2vp1$ec9$1 at namru.matavnet.hu...
> Hello,
>
> It must be simple but it seems I misunderstand scopes in Python... :(
>
> Could someone out there please explain to me why this is printed?
> 2 {0: 1, 1: 1}
> instead of
> 2 {}
>
> Thanks.
> N.
>
> ---- test.py ----
>
> g = 0
> di = {}
>
> def test():
>  global g
>  di[g] = 1
>  g += 1
>
> test()
> test()
>
> print g, di

There is no variable di defined in the test() scope.  Therefore, references 
to di use the di defined in the next outer scope, the module di.

The interactive mode of Python can be very helpful.

$ python
Python 2.1 (#15, May  4 2004, 21:22:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> g = 0
>>> di = {}
>>> def test():
...   global g
...   di[g] = 1
...   g += 1
...
>>> g
0
>>> di
{}
>>> test
<function test at 0083844C>
>>> test()
>>> g
1
>>> di
{0: 1}
>>> test()
>>> g
2
>>> di
{1: 1, 0: 1}
>>> print g, di
2 {1: 1, 0: 1}




From ryan at ryankaskel.com  Tue Nov  2 15:30:06 2004
From: ryan at ryankaskel.com (ryan at ryankaskel.com)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 12:30:06 -0800
Subject: New Python Books?
Message-ID: <1099427406.763633.285680@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

I love reading books on Python and have almost all of them. However, it
seems that there aren't any new ones currently being written that
aren't for beginners. Does anyone know of any plans for future Python
books that cover specific topics like wxPython or mod_python (like
O'reilly's mod_perl and also their book on PerlTk). Thanks.

Ryan Kaskel



From sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au  Thu Nov 11 19:04:14 2004
From: sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au (Sam Holden)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 00:04:14 GMT
Subject: distutils and Debian
References: <4192AD69.5040707@sympatico.ca>
	<slrncp5cf6.v8.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<qeGdnUA1FNXrJw_cRVn-oA@giganews.com> <cmuf87$fm5$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<NPSdnfYgfbIHRw_cRVn-gw@giganews.com>
	<%VKkd.32428$km5.1575758@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <slrncp7vfu.j6h.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:45:24 -0500, Colin J. Williams <cjw at sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Istvan Albert wrote:
>> Robert Kern wrote:
>> 
>>> only depend on the main python package. Most packages that need Python 
>>> *don't* need distutils or the C headers or the static library.
>> 
>> 
>> The *devel* branch in my interpretation means the distribution
>> that contains the files used during the development of the
>> application itself. For example the C headers
>> that you mention.
>> 
>> But it should not mean removing support
>> for installing new scripts for the runtime
>> application!
>> 
>> Distutils is primarily about installing and distributing
>> python programs and it has little to do with developing
>> python itself. Some packages will not
>> be installable without the devel branch but removing
>> distutils to head off that situation seems very odd.
>> 
>> Istvan.
> I'm inclined to agree with this.

But -dev in debian doesn't mean that.

-dev in debian means the stuff you need to develop *with* that
package. The "python" package allows the running of python scripts
that exist in other packages. The "python-dev" package allows the
creation of new python scripts. Installing a python script
from an external source is equivalent to creating it from this
persepective.

Just like "libc6" allows the running of programs linked with the
c library that exist in other packages. The "libc6-dev" package is
required if you want to create new programs that link with the
c library (since it contains the header files, while "libc6" contains
only shared libs (and timezone data files)).

It's a debian thing. That other distributions (and other systems) use
a different naming and package scheme is irrelevant.

-- 
Sam Holden


From chazen at gmail.com  Tue Nov 23 20:34:09 2004
From: chazen at gmail.com (Charlie DeTar)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 17:34:09 -0800
Subject: Embedding Python in MaxMSP
Message-ID: <b89831b8.0411231734.5dc2608a@posting.google.com>

A pretty ugly one - embedding python in an external for a proprietary
semi-legacy macintosh application, MaxMSP:

I am trying to update Bill Orcutt's "nyptho" python interpreter
external for MaxMSP (http://www.publicbeta.cx/max/) to actually work
with the latest versions of OS X and python.  Currently, the C calls
made by nyptho are to the older PyMac methods, and thus they depend on
the older MacPython distribution.

After some simple changes of the "nyptho" code to use the current
standard Python libraries instead, compilation seems to work fine, but
I am getting the following errors from the linker:

/usr/bin/gcc-3.3  -o "/Users/tc1/Sources/MaxMSP-SDK/Mach-O
Development/nyptho/build/nyptho.mxo/Contents/MacOS/nyptho"  
"-L/Users/tc1/Sources/MaxMSP-SDK/Mach-O Development/nyptho/build"
"-L/sw/lib/python2.3/config/" "-F/Users/tc1/Sources/MaxMSP-SDK/Mach-O
Development/nyptho/build" "-F/Library/Frameworks"  -filelist
"/Users/tc1/Sources/MaxMSP-SDK/Mach-O
Development/nyptho/build/nyptho.build/nyptho.build/Objects-normal/LinkFileList"
 "-framework" "Carbon" "-framework" "MaxAPI"  "-arch" "ppc" "-bundle"
"-ldl"
ld: Undefined symbols:
_PyEval_InitThreads
_PyRun_SimpleFile
_PyRun_SimpleString
_PySys_SetArgv
_Py_Finalize
_Py_Initialize 

I am curious about the preceding underscores on the undefined symbols
- they are nowhere in the source code.  I am very new to C, and am
using Mac's "XCode" IDE (as that's what the MaxMSP SDK examples are
in, and I haven't strayed far from them yet).  Following Python's
linker instructions (http://python.org/doc/2.3.4/ext/link-reqs.html)
does nothing but add _PyMac_Error to the list of undefined symbols.

As I mentioned, I am very new to C, and especially don't know anything
about C++.  But I feel like I'm so close to having something at least
testable here!  Any ideas?

Thanks,
Charlie DeTar


From roy at panix.com  Sat Nov 20 13:44:44 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 13:44:44 -0500
Subject: Wrapping a C library in Python
References: <roy-99F088.20103518112004@reader1.panix.com>
	<e253918f.0411190823.25921d6b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <roy-2665D7.13444420112004@reader1.panix.com>

loritsch at gmail.com (Michael Loritsch) wrote:
> If speed of development is your main goal, then I'd use ctypes. 
> ctypes will dynamically load the library in python code.  At the
> python code level, you should then do the translation to python types.
>  No C/C++ coding required.

OK, I decided to give ctypes a try.  After a few false steps (mostly 
related to sorting out LD_LIBRARY_PATH issues), I got it to work for 
simple functions.  Once you get your head around how it works, it's 
pretty neat.

The problem is, I'm at a loss what to do for a slightly more complex 
case.  The API I'm working with requires that you create a dm_handle 
which you then pass into all the other calls to establish a context.  
You start with (approximately):

/*
 * Create a handle.  The caller must have allocated memory for
 * the object pointed to by dmh.
 */
create_dm_handle (struct dm_handle *dmh);

I don't see how I can do the required memory allocation.  Calling 
malloc() directly seems kind of scary.  Even if I could do that, doing 
sizeof (struct dm_handle) won't work in the Python environment.

Am I missing something obvious here?


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Nov 17 01:17:23 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:17:23 -0800
Subject: global event listeners
In-Reply-To: <1100671734.647623.206540@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.6463.1100656114.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1100671734.647623.206540@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20041116221441.F985.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


"Hunter  Peress" <hunterp at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> i suppose i could do this, and have an "if self.__name__ ==
> what_im_looking_for and type(self) == what_im_also_looking_for"
> 
> next is how can i make every object in a given runtime inherit from
> this class

Before I answer your question, I will state that it is common courtesy
to quote the relevant portions of the email you are replying to; it
makes picking up on the conversation easier.

class counter(object):
    counter = 0
    def __init__(self, value):
        self.__value = value
    
    def get_v(self):
        return self.__value
    def set_v(self, val):
        self.__value = val
        counter.counter += 1
    value = property(get_v, set_v)

>>> a = counter(1)
>>> b = counter(2)
>>> a.counter
0
>>> b.counter
0
>>> a.value = 0
>>> a.counter
1
>>> b.counter
1
>>>


 - Josiah



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Nov 16 21:49:56 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:49:56 +1300
Subject: Identifying bundles in MacOS X
In-Reply-To: <2vtsp6F2nlt2cU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <Michael.J.Fromberger-2CA6CC.17042111112004@localhost>
	<2vt7veF2nues7U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<Michael.J.Fromberger-252D87.23144415112004@localhost>
	<2vtsp6F2nlt2cU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <2vvsinF2psqiqU1@uni-berlin.de>

Brion Vibber wrote:
> It's worse than that... the bundle bit _might_ or _might not_ matter, 
> since it's not always present, and some extensions are known or not 
> or... ugh.

I get the impression that Apple are trying to move away
from reliance on finder info, resource forks, etc.,
so that MacOSX will work on non-HFS file systems.
So the bundle bit is probably regarded as a "legacy"
feature.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Sun Nov 21 17:47:34 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 22:47:34 GMT
Subject: generic object - moving toward PEP
In-Reply-To: <6a8od.26504$g21.7369@fe1.texas.rr.com>
References: <aJtnd.118100$HA.81413@attbi_s01>
	<6a8od.26504$g21.7369@fe1.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <aW8od.372666$wV.33631@attbi_s54>

Paul McGuire wrote:
> 
> This sounds *very* much like the ParseResults class that I implemented in
> pyparsing.  For a given set of results from a parsing operation, one can
> access them:
> - as a list (tokens[0], tokens[1], ...)
> - as a dict (tokens["name"], tokens["phoneNum"], ...)
> - as attributes (tokens.name, tokens.phoneNum, ...)
[snip]
> As an afterthought, I then added an XML output format for this class, so
> that tokens.asXML("PERSONAL_DATA") would generate:
> <PERSONAL_DATA>
>   <name>John Doe</name>
>   <phoneNum>555-1212</phoneNum>
> </PERSONAL_DATA>

Yeah, the last time I really wanted this, it was because I had an XML 
document and wanted a somewhat more convenient access pattern than SAX 
or DOM...  I'll definitely check out your ParseResults class before I 
try to submit a patch.  Thanks!

Steve


From przemas_r at o2.pl  Wed Nov 24 12:03:43 2004
From: przemas_r at o2.pl (przemas_r at o2.pl)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:03:43 +0100
Subject: SO_SNDLOWAT not avalaible; how can i avoid non-blocking sockets
Message-ID: <co2ep3$1th$2@julia.coi.pw.edu.pl>

Hi all!

I'm writing socket app, which will transmit data in fixed size packets.
I'd like to be able to pass N bytes to send (or write) function and
ensure that it won't block.

I was willing to set SO_SNDLOWAT option properly and use select to avoid
blocking send. On linux it's impossible, because SO_SNDLOWAT option is
unavailable. After one hour fruitless googling and newsgroup browsing I
had to give up.

I know I can achieve desirable effect by using non-blocking sockets. But
due to its CPU-consuming nature I treat it as last resort.

--
Przemys?aw R??ycki


From esj at harvee.org  Mon Nov  8 10:11:15 2004
From: esj at harvee.org (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 10:11:15 -0500
Subject: AX.25 modules for python?
In-Reply-To: <qZydnYWNq5CBrRPcRVn-hQ@comcast.com>
References: <qZydnYWNq5CBrRPcRVn-hQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <cmo27d$lag$1@sea.gmane.org>

Andy wrote:
> I am considering writing some Linux based client applications for amateur
> radio in python as a learning exercise however, I have not been able to
> find ax.25 python modules.  Can anyone point me to work that has already
> been done in this area?  The only option I have found so far is to use SWIG
> and build my own wrappers for the ax.25 modules, but that seems beyond my
> current level of expertise :-)
> 
> I have had success with python server applications using ax25d, stdin, and
> stdout, but examples of python ax.25 server applications would also be
> welcomed.

I don't believe there are any ax.25 modules.  too small a community if 
you're looking for amateur radio operators who are also python 
programmers.  I know of 2.  ;-)

I have a friend who is working on some wavelet image compression and 
data transmission schemas.  He's really really good at the lower levels 
but human factors are best described as not his forte.

---eric, ka1eec




From wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca  Thu Nov 11 18:15:36 2004
From: wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca (Weiguang Shi)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:15:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: crc32 to be used as hash
References: <slrncp7e3j.bdf.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<mailman.6276.1100202639.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncp7skp.cvc.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>

Thanks for the explanation.

The literature I was refering to includes:

. R. Jain, A Comparison of Hashing Schemes for Address Lookup in
  Computer Networks, IEEE Trans. on Communications, 1992, v40, n3.

. Z. Cao, Z. Wang, E. Zegura, Performance of Hashing-based Schemes for
  Internet Load Balancing, IEEE INFOCOM 2000, p332-341.

Weiguang


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Nov  4 20:07:55 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 14:07:55 +1300
Subject: pep 336:  Make None Callable
In-Reply-To: <cilid.75908$bk1.56390@fed1read05>
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>
	<cilid.75908$bk1.56390@fed1read05>
Message-ID: <2v023dF2fvdl1U1@uni-berlin.de>

Dave Benjamin wrote:
> I think Objective C does something similar--is this the case?

Yes, and I worry about the potential to for it to hide
bugs in that language, too. I think Python has it right,
here.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From zathras at thwackety.com  Sun Nov 28 19:57:02 2004
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 00:57:02 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: The use of :
In-Reply-To: <740c3aec041128131039686d4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411290054560.21323-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, [ISO-8859-1] BJ?rn Lindqvist wrote:

> In the faq, http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general.html#why-are-colons-required-for-the-if-while-def-class-statements,
> it is stated that the colon is there "primarily to enhance readability
> (one of the results of the experimental ABC language)."  But can that
> statement really be backed up? Has someone made a study or something?
> I always thought the rule was "the less useless symbols, the higher
> the readability." I.e:

... snip ...

> IMHO, the colon-less variant is more readable than the one with the colon.

And yet you use a colon above to indicate ownership of the following chunk
of text - specifically ownership by the "I.e" to illustrate your point.

Methinks there may be a connection between the assertions:
   * But I could be wrong

:-)


Michael.



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Nov  6 19:07:04 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 18:07:04 -0600
Subject: PEP new assert idiom
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10oqppb9s0mhe49@news.supernews.com>


"F?bio Mendes" <niels_bohr at uol.com.br> wrote in message 
news:mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list at python.org...
> I'm sorry if it's an replicate. Either my e-mail program is messing with
> things or the python-list sent my msg to /dev/null. I couldn't find
> anything related in previous PEP's, so here it goes a very early draft
> for a new "assert" syntax:
>
[...]
>
> I'm interested to write a formal PEP if I receive good feedback from the
> community, but I never wrote a PEP before, and (the worst problem) my
> english is not so good. Anyone helps?
>
> Thanks,
> Fabio

I see two difficulties with it.

First, you can do the same thing (I think) with a
try block around a sequence of statements and
an assert in the except block. This means you
will need a fairly strong use case based on
convenience to add the syntax to the language.
You will have to show that it will be used a lot.

Second, the statement form has the potential to
cause side effects. There is a very strong
community of thought that says that asserts
are debugging or validation statements that
should not cause any behavior change by
removing them. This can be dealt with by
making it some form of block that has its
own local variables that are discarded on
exit.

John Roth 



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov  8 17:17:02 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 23:17:02 +0100
Subject: Help on installing PyQt on MacOSX 10.3 needed
References: <5fb00e69.0411081405.35d40c1b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cmor8o$68r$00$2@news.t-online.com>

> 
> Maybe somebody has been successful installing PyQt with the native
> python in macosx 10.3 and can help me?

Try posting this on the pykde mailinglist, which is the authorative source
for pyqt os well.


http://mats.imk.fraunhofer.de/mailman/listinfo/pykde

Maybe there is something in the list archives - I don't look at mac related
questions there as I unfortunately don't own one of these nice pieces of
hardware...

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  3 17:06:40 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 23:06:40 +0100
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<uef2o0dkckqmnifgpt78n3sg8ai6a1g05c@4ax.com>
	<slrncoem5p.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmaq49$q5c$1@fred.mathworks.com> <cmbcto$1ba$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <1gmp6qz.1pzqqttpu6acpN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

JCM <joshway_without_spam at myway.com> wrote:

> When people talk about "weak typing" they generally mean either
> implicit conversions (or operations on values of different types),
> or reinterpreting representations of values as a different type.

I've seen people complain about "weak typing" mostly to mean an entirely
different issue: types being attached to objects and NOT to names.


Alex


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Nov  9 18:50:24 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 00:50:24 +0100
Subject: possible to pass python objects into java without jython?
References: <4190A2DE.6040505@acm.org> <4190BFE0.5080507@bellsouth.net>
	<mailman.6185.1100035751.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmrl3v$1at$05$2@news.t-online.com>

> How can I get Java to call pA.A function and then receives the object it
> returns? I am considering SOAP or CORBA, but just wondering if there is
> any other ways without resorting to network or socket programming, since
> all modules are on the same machine?

You have to use _some_ sort of inter process communication - that IPC
usually allows for network transparency is a nice sideeffect. 

I personally didn't work with them, but maybe some of these are helping you:

http://www.freenet.org.nz/python/spiro/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/jpe


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From helten0007 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 23 19:03:13 2004
From: helten0007 at yahoo.com (Pete.....)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 01:03:13 +0100
Subject: Transfer data from webpage form to database
References: <41a36ab7$0$23056$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net><m33bz05u3p.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com><41a38f13$0$23068$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net><liNod.42476$Z14.17919@news.indigo.ie>
	<mailman.6735.1101248667.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41a3ccf2$0$29450$ba624c82@nntp06.dk.telia.net>

First thanks for all your friendly input and for looking at this once 
again...

I think I made some progress, but its still not working, so I must still do 
something wrong.
Here is how far I have come.

I made an insertintotable script, that I want to run every time a person 
presses "The submit button on my webpage" It goes like this:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
#!/pack/python-2.3.2/bin/python2.3

from pyPgSQL import PgSQL
import cgi
import cgitb
cgitb.enable()

form = cgi.FieldStorage()

connect = PgSQL.connect(user="user", password="password", host="host", 
database="database")
cur = connect.cursor()
cur.execute('''INSERT INTO persons (name, surname, username, password) 
(VALUES(%s,%s, %s, %s)''')
%(form[name].value, form[surname].value, form[username].value, 
form[password].value)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My question is, do I need more code to tell the program that I want to 
transfer the user input ( on my webpage ) to my postgresql database.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The code from my webpage is:

#!/pack/python-2.3.2/bin/python2.3

from pyPgSQL import PgSQL
import cgi
import cgitb
cgitb.enable()

print '''

<html>

<head>

<title> Adminperson  </title>

</head>

<body bgcolor="#0479ff">

<h1><p align="center">Insert Person</h1></p>

<hr>

<form action="insertintotable.py" method="get">
    <p>Name:<br><input type="text" name="name"></p>
    <p>Surname:<br><input type="text" name="surnavn"></p>
    <p>Username:<br><input type="text" name="usernavn"></p>
    <p>Password:<br><input type="text" name="password"></p>
    <p><input type="submit" value="Submit"></p>
</body> </html>'''
------------------------------------------------------------------------
And once again thanks... 




From ezze at wanadoo.fr  Tue Nov  9 17:53:41 2004
From: ezze at wanadoo.fr (ezze)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 23:53:41 +0100
Subject: EVIL FBI SADISTS should be KIDNAPPED and TORTURED for 3 YRS
References: <34b3545c.0411070158.6532e02@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41914a69$0$9824$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

The question is :

Does the FBI use Prolog ? ;)




From dd55 at cornell.edu  Fri Nov  5 17:47:43 2004
From: dd55 at cornell.edu (Darren Dale)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 17:47:43 -0500
Subject: executing python code
Message-ID: <cmgvvd$chn$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>

Some time ago I asked about executing a python program or script. For
windows, I was informed that the .py extension could be added to some list
of executable extensions, and then I could just type "mycode" instead of
"python mycode.py". Great advice, worked like a charm.

I recently jumped ship, and have been running Gentoo Linux for about two
months. Is it possible to get the same behavior on Linux? I thought it
would have something to do with adding the #!/usr/bin/env python line to my
code, but I'm not sure what this is supposed to do (it didnt work, that
much I know.)

Could I get some advice?

Thanks,
Darren 


From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Nov  8 11:26:23 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 17:26:23 +0100
Subject: MySQLdb installation
In-Reply-To: <418f99db$0$175$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <418f99db$0$175$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <20041108162623.GA8644@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Mon, Nov 08, 2004 at 05:13:52PM +0100, T. Kaufmann wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> RDBMS MySQL works fine on my machine. I want to install MySQL-python 
> 1.0.0 under Red Hat 9.0. [...]
> there are lots of errors:
> 
> _mysql.c:41:19: mysql.h: File not found
> 
> What can I do?

Start with reading the README :-P

> How can I fix it?

... which mentions, among others:

* Red Hat Linux packages:
    - mysql-devel to compile
    - mysql and/or mysql-devel to run

-- Gerhard
-- 
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
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From mwm at mired.org  Fri Nov 19 17:36:41 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:36:41 -0600
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<cnlgv2$vc$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6616.1100893198.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3073pnF2rf1v9U1@uni-berlin.de> <10psqa2c5o4vr19@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <x76541h3eu.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> writes:

> The sad thing about this is that these patents can be challenged in
> courts... but only if you can afford the legal budget necessary.  And
> big corporations can afford to defend these patents, regardless of
> their legal viability, well enough to prevent all but the most
> determined (and well-heeled) challengers from actually getting a
> judgement on the actual merits of the case.

Right. In the late 80s, there was a company whose sole source of
income was from suing smaller companies about violation of their
patent on xoring the cursor onto the screen

       <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Thu Nov 25 19:41:00 2004
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile)
Date: 25 Nov 2004 16:41:00 -0800
Subject: Few things
Message-ID: <5c882bb5.0411251641.6177ee9d@posting.google.com>

Hello,
here are a four more questions (or suggestions) for the language
(probably people have already discussed some of/all such things:

I've seen the contracts for Python:
http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0316.html
They look interesting and nice, how Python developers feel about
accepting something like this in the standard language? (Maybe they
are a bit complex).


I think it can be useful a little stat standard module that computes
permutations, combinations, median (quickselect), etc. There is even a
C implementation (of most of them):
http://probstat.sourceforge.net/
Probably some Win users can appreciate to have this already compiled
(and built in).


A command like this:
print 0x9f, 054135
This prints an hex and octal. I think the syntax for the hex is a bit
ugly; and the syntax for the octal looks just dangerous (and wrong) to
me.


In some python source codes that I'm finding around, I find things
like:
def foo():
    '''This is just a
silly text'''
...

Because:
def foo():
    '''This is just a
       silly text'''
print foo.__doc__

Outputs:
This is just a
       silly text

I think a better syntax for such multiline strings can be something
like: remove from all the beginnings of the lines successive to the
first one a number of spaces equal to the position of ''' in the
soucecode.
With this sintax such print outputs:
This is just a
silly text

Note: even less indentation of the lines successive the first one can
be simply ignored:
def foo2():
    '''This is just a
     silly text'''
print foo.__doc__

Outputs:
This is just a
silly text

Hello,
Bearophile


From pete.forman at westerngeco.com  Wed Nov 24 12:04:34 2004
From: pete.forman at westerngeco.com (Pete Forman)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 17:04:34 +0000
Subject: How to get an item from a simple set?
References: <mzx7xo74.fsf@wgmail2.gatwick.eur.slb.com>
	<mailman.6756.1101311220.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<is7vxlw5.fsf@wgmail2.gatwick.eur.slb.com>
	<YI2pd.455349$D%.179882@attbi_s51>
Message-ID: <ekijxjod.fsf@wgmail2.gatwick.eur.slb.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> writes:

> I still tend to write the extra line in cases like this -- it
> guarantees that the set is really the size that I think it is, where
> the iter(s).next() solution will not raise an exception if the set
> is actually larger.

The preceding line in my code is
  if len(s) == 1:

:-)
-- 
Pete Forman                -./\.-  Disclaimer: This post is originated
WesternGeco                  -./\.-   by myself and does not represent
pete.forman at westerngeco.com    -./\.-   opinion of Schlumberger, Baker
http://petef.port5.com           -./\.-   Hughes or their divisions.


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Sat Nov  6 03:17:31 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 6 Nov 2004 00:17:31 -0800
Subject: CGIs and file exclusion
References: <2uvedvF2g1pv3U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<6f402501.0411050228.aea8068@posting.google.com>
	<x73bznsxyd.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0411060017.1b6531f6@posting.google.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message news:<x73bznsxyd.fsf at guru.mired.org>...
> fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord) writes:
> 
[snip..]
> >
> > A simple solution that doesn't scale well is to create a file when the
> > access starts. You can check if the file exists and pause until the
> > other process deletes it - with a timeout in case the file gets keft
> > there due to an error.
> >
> > Obviously not an industrial strength solution, but it does work...
> 
> To strengthen the solution, write the process id of the script
> (available via os.getpid()) to the file. If the file doesn't vanish before
> your timeout, you can check to see if the process is still around, and
> kill it.
> 
>      <mike
> 

Thanks - a good suggestion.

Regards,

Fuzzy
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From python-url at phaseit.net  Wed Nov 10 13:08:03 2004
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 18:08:03 GMT
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Nov 10)
Message-ID: <cmtita$nt0$1@lairds.us>

QOTW: "I find it hard to believe nobody has tried this yet, unless it's
the case that those who know how to do it also know that it's actually
not possible for some reason..." -- Peter Hansen
    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/249134.html

"Some people may actually want to drink poisoned kool-aid and join the
great wise extraterrestrials on their comet in the skies."  -- Alex Martelli
responding to the idea that some programmers may actually want "a" + 10 == 10.
    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/249191.html


    Zunbeltz Izaola has a problem passing an exception between threads in a
    wxPython application.  A couple different approaches are offered: custom
    events and using a queue to store the traceback. Peter Hansen suggests a
    possible avenue using ctypes, but quickly becomes mired in an argument
    with himself before Thomas Heller finally rescues him:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/248979.html
    
    BJ?rn Lindqvist wonders why wxPython isn't in the standard library.
    Roger Binns and others offer their insight. Amazingly not one person is
    flamed during the exchange and a potentially endless thread ends as
    suddenly as it began:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/249562.html
    
    Wolfgang Keller wonders about using JMS from CPython via JPype.  David
    Morgenthaler offers a solution which appears to impress Wolfgang. I
    don't know anything about this, so draw your own conclusions here about
    whether David's example is truly amazing or Wolfgang is simply easily
    impressed:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/248987.html
    
    Vinay Sajip announces a new configuration module which prompts some
    discussion over file formats are best expressed in Python itself or a
    specialized language:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/249133.html
    
    The Eternal Squire tables PEP 336 which suggests making None callable.
    Yes, that's his name:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/249224.html
    
    Michele Simionato offers a string-interpolation recipe using
    string.Template from Python 2.4:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/249237.html
    More about string.Template: 
        http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/whatsnew/node5.html
        http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/304004
    
    Maurice LING wonders why Python is slower than Java. This turns into a
    discussion on netiquette, smart questions and the general atmosphere of
    [in]tolerance on c.l.py:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/249413.html
    
    Gabriel Zachmann asks about a generic way to access C++ libraries from
    Python. The consensus doesn't sound promising:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/249513.html
    
    Alan Gauld announces a new "web-tutor for beginners".  No announcement
    has yet been made regarding a web-tutor for experts:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/249730.html
        http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/
    
    Mike Thompson is puzzled by interning strings which leads to some
    enlightening exposition by Peter Otten, et al, on how Python chooses to
    intern strings and how users can utilize this functionality in their own
    code:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/249734.html
    
    syd wonders about a way to return a subset from a large list of
    instances of similar classes.  A couple different solutions are offered
    and the discussion turns to new- versus old-style classes:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/248886.html
    
    Stephen Ferg takes on the twice-yearly task of reminding everyone that
    Python is doomed without a CPAN equivalent, meets with the ritual
    retorts and everyone eventually moves on, satisfied that we need not
    discuss this again until next April:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/248934.html
    
    Gabriel Zachmann starts what appears to be the longest thread of the
    week with a discussion on the definition of strong/weak typing.  In
    typical c.l.py fashion, supercooled fluids are offered as a possible
    explanation:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/248915.html
    

========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
    action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

    Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
        http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
       
    Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
	http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
	http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
	http://python.de/backend.php
    For more, see
	http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Nov 18 22:00:01 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 19:00:01 -0800
Subject: Enumerating Classes in Modules
In-Reply-To: <BNcnd.18042$Vk6.6901@twister.nyc.rr.com>
References: <jKQmd.16312$Vk6.11976@twister.nyc.rr.com>
	<10pnu0hrq7r9tf9@corp.supernews.com>
	<j4Tmd.17277$Vk6.1450@twister.nyc.rr.com>
	<BNcnd.18042$Vk6.6901@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <10pqo6enaakf4a3@corp.supernews.com>

Rob Snyder wrote:

>Just in case anyone "follows in my footsteps" and has the same problem I did
>- Jeff's answer is pretty much dead on. The only stumbling block I had was
>that the dir() returns a list of strings representating the name of the
>attributes, and includes things that are not class definitions (e.g.
>'--builtins--'). So two modifications are necessary:
>
>1 - use the getattr() function with each item returned by dir() to actually
>load the class object
>  
>

Right.  Forgot about that little detail.  Oops.  :)

>2 - use type() to determine if it really it really is a classobj
>
>For example:
>for modname in nameslist:
>    plugins[modname] = __import__(modname)
>    # ....
>    for item in dir(plugins[modname]):
>        try:
>            a = getattr(plugins[modname],item)
>            if (type(a).__name__ == 'classobj'):
>                item.standard_method()
>        except AttributeError:
>            pass
>  
>

Be aware that this will fail for new-style classes --

 >>> class O(object):
...     pass
...
 >>> type(O)
<type 'type'>
 >>> type(O).__name__
'type'
 >>>

Unless your required-method name is something that *is* really common 
(i.e. likely to be present in __builtins__ or in other modules imported 
by the plugin module), you're probably better off not trying to check 
the type.  Attempting the lookup won't hurt anything, as long as you 
catch the AttributeError.

 >>> mymodule = __import__('StringIO')
 >>> mymodule
<module 'StringIO' from 'C:\Python22\lib\StringIO.pyc'>
 >>> dir(mymodule)
['EINVAL', 'StringIO', '__all__', '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', 
'__name__', 'test', 'types']
 >>> for item in dir(mymodule):
...     obj = getattr(mymodule, item)
...     try:
...         obj.plugin_init()
...     except AttributeError:
...         print "%s has no attribute 'plugin_init'" % item
...        
EINVAL has no attribute 'plugin_init'
StringIO has no attribute 'plugin_init'
__all__ has no attribute 'plugin_init'
__builtins__ has no attribute 'plugin_init'
__doc__ has no attribute 'plugin_init'
__file__ has no attribute 'plugin_init'
__name__ has no attribute 'plugin_init'
test has no attribute 'plugin_init'
types has no attribute 'plugin_init'
 >>>

So as long as you're fairly careful about selecting your method name, 
there's no reason to bother with typechecking.  And if you *do* need to 
be more specific, then you're probably better off defining a specific 
plugin_base class and requiring all plugin classes to inherit from it 
(enforced with issubclass(), presumably).


>Again, thanks for the help. I apologize for clogging up people's
>newsreaders, I've just found it helpful when poeple post their conculsions
>with things, so I wanted to do the same.
>  
>

Followups are definitely a good thing.  :)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Nov 26 09:04:21 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 09:04:21 -0500
Subject: 1 file, multiple threads
References: <41a7000c$0$16489$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <co7d55$d9d$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <41a7000c$0$16489$4d4ebb8e at news.nl.uu.net>,
Guyon Mor?e <gumuz at NO_looze_SPAM.net> wrote:
>
>If I have multiple threads reading from the same file, would that be a
>problem?
>
>if yes, how would I solve it?
>
>Let's say I want to take it a step further and start writing to 1 file form
>multiple threads, how would I solve that?

Make a new thread just for dealing with the file and post messages to it
using Queue.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)


From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Nov 19 10:08:12 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:08:12 +0100
Subject: elegante zuweisung gesucht
In-Reply-To: <cnl1va$t15$1@newshispeed.ch>
References: <cnl1va$t15$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <20041119150812.GA1618@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Fri, Nov 19, 2004 at 04:03:10PM +0100, Benny Mohr wrote:
> Hallo ihr Cracks,
> 
> ich habe eine einfache Funktion
> 
> def myFunc(a,b):
>     pass
> 
> und eine Liste
> 
> myList = [1,2]
> 
> und m?chte gerne auf diese Weise aufrufen:
> 
> myFunc(myList)
> 
> Geht leider nicht - gibt es Alternativen ohne myFunc zu ?ndern?

myFunc(*myList)

Btw. English is the preferred language on this list. If, however, you
want to talk about Python in German, then this is the list for it
python-de mailing list: http://python.net/mailman/listinfo/python-de

Good luck in your Python course :-P

-- Gerhard
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From tifredman at free.fr  Fri Nov  5 05:40:05 2004
From: tifredman at free.fr (bwani)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 05:40:05 -0500
Subject: installing ppgplot (using OS X 10.3 / gcc 3.4 / python 2.3b)
References: <mailman.632.1086548804.6949.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d589205a4565a5b5240aae21a90f5b34@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>

Hi Dennis,
I'm sorry, but I don't have the answer to your questions, but I have some
other troubles with installing ppgplot... Hope you can help!

First, the compilation of pgplot did not work smoothly.
I found that I had to use the option g77_gcc_aout with makemake, because
ld does not support the -shared option with OSX. But then, during make, I
got this error when compiling grquit.f:

g77 -c -Wall -O ../../tmp/pgplot/src/grquit.f
/var/tmp//ccSZHXDl.s:25:section difference relocatable subtraction
expression, "LC1" minus "L1$pb" using a symbol at the end of section will
not produce an assembly time constant
/var/tmp//ccSZHXDl.s:25:use a symbol with a constant value created with an
assignment instead of the expression, L_const_sym = LC1 - L1$pb
/var/tmp//ccSZHXDl.s:24:section difference relocatable subtraction
expression, "LC1" minus "L1$pb" using a symbol at the end of section will
not produce an assembly time constant
/var/tmp//ccSZHXDl.s:24:use a symbol with a constant value created with !!
an assignment instead of the expression, L_const_sym = LC1 - L1$pb
make: *** [grquit.o] Error 1


I don't know what this means. I could "fix" this by commenting out the
line with the command "STOP" in grquit.f
Then I got a similar error with:
g77 -Wall -O -o pgpack ../../tmp/pgplot/fonts/pgpack.f

I didn't find any solution for this. But at least, I had a libcpgplot.a
file, so I can go on. The cpg demo can not be built properly neither.

Then I tried to install ppgplot, with the usual python setup.py install
command, and got this error:

gcc -Wl,-F. -Wl,-F. -bundle -framework Python build/temp.darwin-7.5.0-
Power_Macintosh-2.3/src/_ppgplot.o -L/usr/X11R6/lib/ -L/Volumes/
Documents/Astro/APEX/Boa/panther/lib/pgplot -lcpgplot -lpgplot -lX11 -lm
!! -o build/lib.darwin-7.5.0-Power_Macintosh-2.3/ppgplot/_ppgplot.so
ld: Undefined symbols:
_s_copy
_i_indx
_s_cat
_s_cmp
_do_fio
_e_wsfi
_s_wsfi
_e_wsfe
_s_wsfe
_G77_getenv_0
_e_rsfe
_s_rsfe
_f_clos
_f_inqu
_f_open
_do_uio
_e_rsue
_s_rsue


Do you have any idea of what is missing?

I got this error with a version of g77 I had under jaguar and gcc3.3, and
with the latest versions g77 3.4 and gcc 3.5 that I downloaded yesterday.
And I'm running jaguar 10.3.5 (and Python 2.3)

Then I tried a manual linking, using the command that you give (with
-Wl,-framework -Wl,AppKit and so on).
There was no error, and I got a _ppgplot.so file. I copied it to my
ppgplot dir in the python path, and when I import ppgplot in python, I get
again this error:

>>> import ppgplot
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "ppgplot/__init__.py", line 1, in ?
ImportError: Failure linking new module: : dyld: python2.3 Undefined
symbols:
_G77_getenv_0
_do_fio
_do_uio
_e_rsfe
_e_rsue
_e_wsfe
_e_wsfi
_f_clos
_f_inqu
_f_open
_i_indx
_s_cat
_s_cmp
_s_copy
_s_rsfe
_s_rsue
_s_wsfe
_s_wsfi


It's really a pitty, because last week I finally succeeded in installing
pgplot and ppgplot with jaguar (10.2.8). Everything runs fine when doing a
makemake g77_gcc_aout.
The python setup.py install also works fine. And I had no error when
importing to python, and I could actually use it and open some windows and
plot things in them.
But then, I updated my OS to panther on Monday, and nothing works anymore
:(

I also tried to use this previous version of _ppgplot.so file that was
running with 10.2.8, but when I import this one in python, I now get this
error :

>>> import ppgplot
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File
"/Volumes/Documents/Astro/APEX/BoA/Packages/Python/lib/python2.3/site-packages/ppgplot/__init__.py",
line 1, in ?
ImportError: Failure linking new module: : dyld: python2.3 Undefined
symbols:
ppgplot/_ppgplot.so undefined reference to _PyArg_ParseTuple expected to
be defined in the executable
ppgplot/_ppgplot.so undefined reference to _PyCObject_AsVoidPtr expected
to be defined in the executable
ppgplot/_ppgplot.so undefined reference to _PyCObject_Type expected to be
defined in the executable
ppgplot/_ppgplot.so undefined reference to _PyDict_GetItemString expected
to be defined in the executable
ppgplot/_ppgplot.so undefined ref


By the way, the directory that appears at the beginning of this message
does NOT exist anymore! Very strange...

Ok, I hope that you can help me with this, and if this works, maybe I can
also find why you have other kinds of troubles!

Best wishes,
Bwani




From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Fri Nov  5 11:32:36 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 11:32:36 -0500
Subject: Wrapping or converting Perl module?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5939.1099609759.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <200411030759.15909.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
	<mailman.5939.1099609759.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6o2dneB1EaO-NhbcRVn-2w@giganews.com>

Terry Hancock wrote:

> 1) Wrap a perl module the way you would a C module
>    (does this ever make sense to do?)

no

> 2) Automatically or Semi-automatically translate
>    a perl module/package/etc into a Python module?

no

> 3) Is there at least a guide somewhere to mapping
>    Perl OOP idioms to Python counterparts?

http://pleac.sourceforge.net/

http://www.python.org/moin/PerlPhrasebook

Istvan.


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Nov  5 07:27:37 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 13:27:37 +0100
Subject: CGIs and file exclusion
References: <2uvedvF2g1pv3U1@uni-berlin.de> <cmecq2$ksm$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<4edc17eb.0411050252.2d6c811b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cmfrjp$9vc$02$1@news.t-online.com>

> Ok, but then I guess you need an external long-living process keeping the
> DB open for you. If the cgi script opens and close the database by itself,
> the only thing the ZODB buys for you is raising

Oops, yes. I'm not sure if anything else than filestorage will help with
that, but of course my application is a "real" server.


> BTW, it is clear from the traceback than internally ZODB uses fcntl
> and probably a custom solution based on it would be simpler than
> installing the ZODB (unless the OP has some reason to want it).
> But I guess you had in mind something different, care to explain?

I've run into the same tracebacks when my application died and got stale so
starting it up again provoked that locking error.

But this exactly is the reason why I personally would refrain from using a
fcntl-approach. What happens if your cgi process freezes? As I never used
mod_python or similar "primitive" http frameworks, I don't know if
malfunctioning scripts are reliably killed after some time - and even if
they _are_, that would most probably be after at least 30seconds, if not
more.

So to paraphrase my suggestion: Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel of
serialized access to a critical resource from different processes, use some
database abstraction layer. As the OP wanted to use pickle, I guess he's
not interested in OR-mapping his stuff to a RDBMS, but wants to deal with
"pure" python objects - thats why I recommended zodb in the first place.

So maybe a small application server is in order - you could for exampl use
corba, xmlrpc or pyro to connect to that service from the cgi, keeping the
cgi-layer extremely simple.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From eurleif at ecritters.biz  Thu Nov 25 05:35:24 2004
From: eurleif at ecritters.biz (Leif K-Brooks)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 05:35:24 -0500
Subject: XUL Parser?
In-Reply-To: <Ya-dnTB88a2fVzncRVn-ug@speakeasy.net>
References: <mailman.6758.1101313933.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Ya-dnTB88a2fVzncRVn-ug@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <30lqprF322r8kU1@uni-berlin.de>

A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> Considering that there's no real XUL specification

Anything wrong with <http://www.mozilla.org/projects/xul/xul.html>?


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Sun Nov  7 21:27:24 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 21:27:24 -0500
Subject: interning strings
In-Reply-To: <418eab10$0$13356$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
References: <418e1e69$0$15438$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
	<cmldpr$p0q$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<418eab10$0$13356$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <1f7befae041107182728bf2b74@mail.gmail.com>

[Mike Thompson]
> ...
> From your explanation there seems to be no language rules, just
> implementation accidents.  And none of those will be particularly
> helpful in my case.

String interning is purely an optimization.  Python added the concept
to speed its own name lookups, and the rules it uses for
auto-interning are effective for that.  It wasn't necessary to expose
the interning facilities to users to meet its goal, and, especially
since interned strings were originally immortal, it would have been a
horrible idea to intern all strings.  The machinery was exposed just
because it's Pythonic to expose internals when reasonably possible. 
There wasn't, and shouldn't be, an expectation that exposed internals
will be perfectly suited as-is to arbitrary applications.

> However, I still think I'm going to try using the builtin 'intern' rather than my
> own dict cache.

That's fine -- that's why it got exposed.  Don't assume that any
string is interned unless you explicitly intern() it, and you'll be
happy (and it doesn't hurt to intern() a string that's already
interned -- you just get back a reference to the already-interned copy
then).

[earlier]
> I can find documentation of a builtin called 'intern' but its use seems
> frowned upon these days.

Not by me, but it's never been useful to *most* apps, apart from the
indirect benefits they get from Python's internal uses of string
interning.  It's rare that an app really wants some strings stored
uniquely, and possibly never than an app wants all strings stored
uniquely.  Most apps that use explicit string interning appear to be
looking for no more than a partial workalike for Lisp symbols.


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Thu Nov 11 14:57:12 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:57:12 -0500
Subject: I don't quite get this "string".find()
In-Reply-To: <d52c72d2041111113644284154@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d52c72d2041111113644284154@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1f7befae04111111571b3a88ca@mail.gmail.com>

[Jaime Wyant]
> Will someone explain this to me?
>
> >>> "test".find("")
> 0
>
> Why is the empty string found at position 0?

Because index 0 is the smallest index at which "" is found:

>>> "test"[0:0] == ""
True

As a string method, find() acts like this (skipping obfuscating optimizations):

    def find(haystack, needle):
        for i in range(len(haystack)):
            if haystack[i : i+len(needle)] == needle:
                return i
        return -1


From peter at somewhere.com  Thu Nov 11 05:03:02 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:03:02 +0100
Subject: Iterating over PDF documents
In-Reply-To: <just-88A7ED.10461211112004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <cmv9j2$et5$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<just-88A7ED.10461211112004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <cmve68$iqq$1@swifty.westend.com>

Just schrieb:
> try this:
> 
>    for line in open(path, "U"):  # universal newline mode

Thanks, Just, I tried this but the edited PDF was damaged.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From dieter at handshake.de  Wed Nov 17 14:34:42 2004
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 20:34:42 +0100
Subject: regular expressions and internationalization (WAS: permuting
	letters...)
References: <67lld8kr76.fsf@aster.homelinux.net>
	<34Skd.24295$KJ6.17501@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4195217c$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<mailman.6313.1100288445.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3B8ld.24947$KJ6.15770@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.6316.1100290534.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <x7sm789sml.fsf@handshake.de>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> writes on Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:15:28 +0000 (UTC):
> ...
> Is there any way to match \w but not \d?

It is:  r'(?!\d)\w'

The '(?!...)' is called a negative lookahead.


From nun at example.com  Thu Nov 18 14:33:54 2004
From: nun at example.com (Mitja)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 20:33:54 +0100
Subject: Set like feature
References: <1100552512.672456.317420@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<opshi0u6ipdob4us@localhost>
	<1gnbhc1.xndkcm1qpqfjsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <opshodys0pdob4us@localhost>

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 00:05:04 +0100, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com>  
wrote:

> Mitja <nun at example.com> wrote:
>
>> > each element on a column by column basis.
>> >
>> > I am using python2.2 so no sets. Can anyone think of an efficient way
>> > to do this?
>>
>> If I understand the problem correctly, splitting the lines up and  
>> sorting
>> them before comparison _is_ much better than a naive approach, though I
>> don't know if that's what's best.
>
> Splitting, sure.  Sorting would destroy the 'column by column basis'.

I wasn't sure what OP really wanted; I saw both the "column by column"  
thing and the bit about sets, which is contradicting, so I assumed he was  
after sets-like behavior. [wrongly, as later posts clarified]

-- 
Mitja


From KeineEmails at gmx.de  Thu Nov 11 13:57:46 2004
From: KeineEmails at gmx.de (Andreas Mosmann)
Date: 11 Nov 2004 10:57:46 -0800
Subject: EVIL FBI SADISTS should be KIDNAPPED and TORTURED for 3 YRS
References: <34b3545c.0411070158.6532e02@posting.google.com>
	<41914a69$0$9824$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <faa89120.0411111057.493a3b91@posting.google.com>

"ezze" <ezze at wanadoo.fr> wrote in message news:<41914a69$0$9824$8fcfb975 at news.wanadoo.fr>...
> The question is :
> 
> Does the FBI use Prolog ? ;)

Probably not, because the topic would already have been killed.
If not then it is save here ;)

Andreas


From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 12 08:46:46 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:46:46 -0500
Subject: escape sequences in list comprehensions
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0411120517.488d16ca@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0411120517.488d16ca@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4194bf61_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

kartik wrote:
> Escape sequences don't seem to work in strings within list comprehensions:
> 
>>>>print ['%s\n' %i for i in [1,2,3]]
> 
> ['1\n', '2\n', '3\n']
> 
> What am I missing?

This is correct; what were you expecting?

When you print a list, it prints the repr() of the list elements. In the 
case of strings, it shows you the escaped form of the string. Maybe this 
is what you want:
 >>> a=['%s\n' %i for i in [1,2,3]]
 >>> a
['1\n', '2\n', '3\n']
 >>> for x in a:
...   print x
...
1

2

3

 >>>

Note the extra lines when the strings are actually printed.

Kent

> 
> Thank you.


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Thu Nov 25 08:31:38 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 14:31:38 +0100
Subject: copytree if directory exists
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.25.13.31.38.635077@thomas-guettler.de>

Hi,

I need to copy a directory into an existing directory.
shutil.copytree does complain that the directory already
exists.

I need something like "cp -rp": Copy recursively, overwrite
if file already exist. Preserve mtime and modes if possible.

A keyword argument "may_exist=1" for shutil.copytree would be nice.

 Thomas



From rkern at ucsd.edu  Fri Nov 19 16:42:27 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:42:27 -0800
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6623.1100899475.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6623.1100899475.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cnlpc3$d9o$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Eddie Parker wrote:
> Pardon me, what's "QOTW"?
> 
> [ Quote|Quiz ] of The Week, is the nearest thing Google tells me. :)

Quote of the Week.

Look for the "Dr. Dobb's Python-URL!" posts to this newsgroup.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From nchackowsky at gmail.com  Sun Nov 14 23:18:46 2004
From: nchackowsky at gmail.com (Nick)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:18:46 -0600
Subject: Combining arbitrary lists
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6367.1100491265.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <41982269$1_1@alt.athenanews.com>
	<mailman.6367.1100491265.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41982e45$1_4@alt.athenanews.com>

Mariano Draghi wrote:
> Nick wrote:
> 
>> Given that
>>
>> n = [ [1, 2, 3], [4, 5, 6], [7, 8] ]
>>
>> then the following code produces what I expect
>>
>> for x in n[0]:
>>   for y in n[1]:
>>     for z in n[2]:
>>       print [x, y, z]
> 
> 
> ...
> 
>>
>> How can I do this for an arbirary length of n?
> 
> 
> I think this is what you're looking for:
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/302478
> 
>> Muchos Gracias
> 
> 
> De nada ;)
> 
Okay... a) THANK-YOU, and b) HOW did you find that?

Nick.


From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 29 13:59:02 2004
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 18:59:02 +0000
Subject: Parallel Python on PowerMac?
In-Reply-To: <1p1mclu2nq7e8$.1o0rc9ygt2rdy$.dlg@40tude.net>
References: <1p1mclu2nq7e8$.1o0rc9ygt2rdy$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <ukKqd.42868$Z14.18224@news.indigo.ie>

[Wolfgang Keller]
 > as I might get a dual-G5 PowerMac someday in the not to distant
 > future, I was wondering what options are available for making Python
 > benefit from the second CPU? Running two interpreters and using Pyro
 > would not be the most efficient (and easiest) way, I guess?

Qualifier: obviously efficiency is relative to the application.

But I would venture to say that, *in the general case*, the "most 
efficient" way to benefit from a second cpu, both in terms of coding 
time and execution efficiency, is to use either jython on a suitable jvm 
or ironpython on mono (when it catches up with the .net CLR in efficiency).

I say "most efficient in execution efficiency" because all of the 
de/serialization involved with communicating between two independent 
cpython interpreters, using something like pyro, would outweigh whatever 
performance advantage cpython might have over jython or ironpython. This 
becomes more pronounced as you add more and more processors into the 
picture.

I say "most efficient in coding time" because cpython would require you 
to specially write code for inter-interpreter communications, and 
possibly restructure your application accordingly, whereas jython and 
ironpython won't: the same interpreter can have threads on multiple 
processors, all executing simultaneously.

Although, iff your prospective machine supports System V IPC, you might 
want to check out PoSH.

http://poshmodule.sourceforge.net

running-to-find-my-flame-retardant-suit-ly'yrs

-- 
alan kennedy
------------------------------------------------------
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/contact/alan


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov  8 11:52:39 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 17:52:39 +0100
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<tyfekj44shs.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxizh.3rip5na92f0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyfacts4of3.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxn7d.19o8q51jt2gu5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<wtww9u4p.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <cmo88k$1ot$04$1@news.t-online.com>

> I guess that MSVC uses the same binary layout for C++ objects as for COM
> objects, so it should be possible.  I don't know if the name mangling
> rules are documented somewhere.

COM has no binary layout of objects - the whole purpose of COM is to _not_
access objects by memory location, but instead by interfaces and thus
functions. Even what you perceive as attributes/properties are set/get
functions. Conveniently, COM objects can be wrapped on the fly be the
python win32 extensions. 
 
> But I have no idea how inline definitions of member functions (I'm not
> sure that's the correct term - I mean code defined in the header files)
> should be converted to Python code.

While inlining is an optimization technique that allows for copying method
code directly into the callee's code, they will still be exposed
explicitely as function as otherwise even linking between C++ libs won't
work.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From bhoel at despammed.com  Thu Nov 25 15:20:56 2004
From: bhoel at despammed.com (=?iso-8859-15?q?Berthold_H=F6llmann?=)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 21:20:56 +0100
Subject: Replacing words from strings except 'and' / 'or' / 'and not'
References: <41A5EFA9.5030907@arcor.de>
	<mailman.6793.1101408768.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<opsh1v4mc61js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
Message-ID: <m2sm6xof2v.fsf@pchoel.psh>

"Caleb Hattingh" <caleb1 at telkomsa.net> writes:

> Oh well, I might as well give it a shot.  I hope nobody has tried map yet?
>
> This is is short and quick, although:
> I sure would appreciate some help changing the list "lkw" into a
> generator  (or something like that) instead...those fancy things are
> still beyond me  :)
>
> '>>> keywords = ['my','is']
> '>>> sentence = 'hi there my name is caleb'
> '>>> lsen = sentence.split()
> '>>> lkw = []
> # Yuck!  isn't there a better way to generate copies of the same list
> in  the "map" below??
> '>>> for i in range(len(lsen)):
> 	lkw.append(keywords)

Maybe here 

'>>> for i in lsen:
	lkw.append(keywords)

is enough?

> 	
> '>>> lkw
> # Like I said, yuck!  For 'map' below, can't we use a generator or
> something like that instead??
> [['my', 'is'], ['my', 'is'], ['my', 'is'], ['my', 'is'], ['my', 'is'],
> ['my', 'is']]
> '>>> def myfunc(kw,word):
> 	if word in kw:
> 		return '*'+word+'*'
> 	else:
> 		return word
>
> 	
> '>>> ans = map(myfunc,lkw,lsen)
> '>>> ans
> ['hi', 'there', '*my*', 'name', '*is*', 'caleb']
> '>>> newSentence = ' '.join(ans)
> '>>> newSentence
> 'hi there *my* name *is* caleb'
> '>>>
My solution would be:

>>> keywords = ['my','is']
>>> sentence = 'hi there my name is caleb'
>>> lsen = sentence.split()
>>> def myfunc(kw,word):
...     if word in kw:
...         return '*%s*' % word
...     else:
...         return word
... 
>>> ans = [ myfunc(keywords, word) for word in lsen ]
>>> ans
['hi', 'there', '*my*', 'name', '*is*', 'caleb']
>>> newSentence = ' '.join(ans)
>>> newSentence
'hi there *my* name *is* caleb'

Kind Regards
Berthold
-- 
berthold at xn--hllmanns-n4a.de / <http://h?llmanns.de/>
bhoel at web.de                 / <http://starship.python.net/crew/bhoel/>


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Nov 24 04:06:14 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 10:06:14 +0100
Subject: Italian newsgroup, was Re: Text widget - insert line
References: <cnt1el$san$1@news.newsland.it>
	<41a21527$0$8170$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<cnt8is$tt7$1@news.newsland.it> <30emukF2u6uf7U2@uni-berlin.de>
	<cntqav$jd4$1@news.newsland.it> <2KGod.2017$QR.1630@lakeread01>
	<co1gqu$ti3$1@news.newsland.it>
Message-ID: <co1iu5$o0j$02$1@news.t-online.com>

beps wrote:

> as you have written you I return to the problem begins them, that is the
> customers do not go to new line. I must recover the index of the last
 
You may also try the Italian newsgroup it.comp.lang.python in case you are
not feeling entirely comfortable with the English language.

Peter



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Wed Nov 17 08:17:35 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:17:35 -0300
Subject: Rounding curiosity
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7BFA@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Grant Edwards]

#- Of course it isn't.  Computers don't use decimal.  They use

But Python could:

http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/module-decimal.html

.	Facundo
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From jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca  Mon Nov 15 10:45:15 2004
From: jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca (jmdeschamps)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 07:45:15 -0800
Subject: Tkinter and Graphics
References: <10pf6ersh138jbe@corp.supernews.com>
	<1gn98g2.1uhohpdpev85hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3d06fae9.0411150745.1aec1de6@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1gn98g2.1uhohpdpev85hN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> Andrew <nobody at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi I was wondering if there is anyway in Tkinter to create GUIs using
> > Graphics, like windows media player or other tools like that
> 
> I guess you could do just about anything with Canvas, it that's what you
> mean.
> 
> 
> Alex

Such as this (below)
(I made this while reading as an refresher for myself, since I'm doing
mostly CGI and web related stuff these days!)

Good interface design!!!

JM

################ 
import Tkinter

bar = 1
cursing = True

def foo(s):
	global bar
	print bar
	bar += 1
	
def baz(s):
	global cursing,rCanvas
	if cursing :
		cursing = False
		rCanvas.config(cursor="pirate")
	else:
		cursing = True
		rCanvas.config(cursor="")

root = Tkinter.Tk()
rCanvas=Tkinter.Canvas(root, background="white")
idPoly=rCanvas.create_polygon(10,10,10,200,150,250,50,100)
rCanvas.tag_bind(idPoly,"<Button-1>",foo)
rCanvas.tag_bind(idPoly,"<Enter>",baz)
rCanvas.tag_bind(idPoly,"<Leave>",baz)
rCanvas.pack()
root.mainloop()
###############


From james-newsgroups at echoblast.com  Wed Nov 10 14:03:03 2004
From: james-newsgroups at echoblast.com (James S)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:03:03 GMT
Subject: Python for Reverse Engineering
In-Reply-To: <IVrkd.177971$%k.126855@pd7tw2no>
References: <cmhdi4$7vi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu><418c50ad$1_3@omega.dimensional.com>
	<418C54E9.2000409@vt.edu>
	<mailman.6042.1099806403.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmlhv8$ajc$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cmlj6b$7j9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <cmmihf$7af$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<IVrkd.177971$%k.126855@pd7tw2no>
Message-ID: <419265E6.4020200@echoblast.com>

I got a few questions about the strings, so I figured I would share the 
answers.

You wrote the algorithm that generated these strings?

Yes

How are the strings verified and proven to be legitimate?

There is a checksum encoded in the string that provides a basic check. 
There is a unquice number encoded in each string that represents each 
possible key.

There are 28629150 valid keys in the space of 28629150^5

Does the same algorithm that created them verify them?

The same string is feed back through the algo in reverse. Providing the 
origional information that generated it.

James

James Sapara wrote:
> Well for the fun of it I'm gonna post 100 strings that are probably like 
> the strings referred to earlier. I'll answer a limited set of questions 
> about the keys if you want, but for the most part they are a set of 100 
> unqiue keys, with two variable inputs and a few static inputs.
> 


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov 18 01:43:11 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 06:43:11 GMT
Subject: psSerial: how to write a single byte value to the serial port?
References: <5a050156.0411170057.6c27a6a4@posting.google.com>
	<419b2f5f.282498301@news.oz.net>
	<5a050156.0411171153.6f04b454@posting.google.com>
	<cngalv$t5j$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<5a050156.0411171909.2c7d500@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <419c3f08.352043932@news.oz.net>

On 17 Nov 2004 19:09:26 -0800, mr_ravi_patil at yahoo.com (SoftwareTester) wrote:

>"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote in message news:<cngalv$t5j$05$1 at news.t-online.com>...
>> > I assume the string print ser.write() will append null characters to the
>> > end.
>> 
>> Why do you assume that? Its not said anywhere, and its wrong. A string
>> consists only of the characters you can "see" - if python usues C
>> convention for 0-termination or othear means is an implementation detail
>> none of your concern.
BZZT! (as Mike pointed out ;-) What do you mean "see"?

 >>> for top4 in xrange(16):
 ...     print
 ...     for bot4 in xrange(16):
 ...         rep = repr(chr(top4<<4|bot4))[1:-1]
 ...         print '%4s'%(rep,),
 ...

 \x00 \x01 \x02 \x03 \x04 \x05 \x06 \x07 \x08   \t   \n \x0b \x0c   \r \x0e \x0f
 \x10 \x11 \x12 \x13 \x14 \x15 \x16 \x17 \x18 \x19 \x1a \x1b \x1c \x1d \x1e \x1f
         !    "    #    $    %    &    '    (    )    *    +    ,    -    .    /
    0    1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9    :    ;    <    =    >    ?
    @    A    B    C    D    E    F    G    H    I    J    K    L    M    N    O
    P    Q    R    S    T    U    V    W    X    Y    Z    [   \\    ]    ^    _
    `    a    b    c    d    e    f    g    h    i    j    k    l    m    n    o
    p    q    r    s    t    u    v    w    x    y    z    {    |    }    ~ \x7f
 \x80 \x81 \x82 \x83 \x84 \x85 \x86 \x87 \x88 \x89 \x8a \x8b \x8c \x8d \x8e \x8f
 \x90 \x91 \x92 \x93 \x94 \x95 \x96 \x97 \x98 \x99 \x9a \x9b \x9c \x9d \x9e \x9f
 \xa0 \xa1 \xa2 \xa3 \xa4 \xa5 \xa6 \xa7 \xa8 \xa9 \xaa \xab \xac \xad \xae \xaf
 \xb0 \xb1 \xb2 \xb3 \xb4 \xb5 \xb6 \xb7 \xb8 \xb9 \xba \xbb \xbc \xbd \xbe \xbf
 \xc0 \xc1 \xc2 \xc3 \xc4 \xc5 \xc6 \xc7 \xc8 \xc9 \xca \xcb \xcc \xcd \xce \xcf
 \xd0 \xd1 \xd2 \xd3 \xd4 \xd5 \xd6 \xd7 \xd8 \xd9 \xda \xdb \xdc \xdd \xde \xdf
 \xe0 \xe1 \xe2 \xe3 \xe4 \xe5 \xe6 \xe7 \xe8 \xe9 \xea \xeb \xec \xed \xee \xef
 \xf0 \xf1 \xf2 \xf3 \xf4 \xf5 \xf6 \xf7 \xf8 \xf9 \xfa \xfb \xfc \xfd \xfe \xff

All 256 accounted for ;-)

>> 
>> > byte = chr(0x40)
>> > ser.write(byte)
>>  
>> >>> type(byte)
>> <type 'str'>
>> 
>> Its a string as well.
>
>I am concerned because I do not know the effect of writing null
>character to the device connected to the serial byte.
There should not be a null character passed to the device unless you
explicitly put it in the string data itself, e.g., '\x40\x00' is chr(0x40)
followed by a null byte in a 2-byte string. There is no additional terminating byte.

This does mean that if you do pass a string like 'one\x00two' and access it
as a C string, you will just see the first part. OTOH, you could pass a typical
C string _list_ ended by a null C string like 'one\x00two\x00three\x00\x00' (that
last \x00 is the null string).

>
>I wish to send a single byte to the serial port and nothing more.

Did you try ser.write(byte) as above? What happened?

    ser.write('\x40')

should be the equivalent of

    byte = chr(0x40)
    ser.write(byte)
>
>Thanks.
De nada, HTH ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From peter at designtheory.org  Sun Nov 14 04:20:31 2004
From: peter at designtheory.org (Peter Dobcsanyi)
Date: 14 Nov 2004 09:20:31 GMT
Subject: numarray memory leak
References: <cn6fk4$akl$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk> <cn6hpm$m5b$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <cn780v$ho6$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk>

Robert Kern <rkern at ucsd.edu> wrote:
> Peter Dobcsanyi wrote:
>> Calling the following function with a large enough 'n' causes memory leak.
>> 
>>     import numarray as N
>> 
>>     def loop(n, m=100):
>>         for i in xrange(n):
>>             a = N.zeros((m,m))
>>             N.matrixmultiply(a, a)
>> 
>> If the matrixmultiply line is commented out, there is no leak, the
>> program has a stable memory size.
>> 
>> I am using numarray 1.1, the result is the same with Python 2.3.4 and
>> 2.4b2.
> 
> I don't see such behavior on Mac OSX 10.3, Python 2.3, CVS numarray and 
> n=10000.
> 
> Could you try CVS numarray? What n did you use?

With n a few hundreds (say n>=500), the continuous growth of the
program's memory footprint is quite noticeable. I am working on Linux
(Debian testing), I monitor the memory usage of the program by top.
The allocated memory is never released.

I have noticed this problem of memory leak in connection with numarray a
few months ago in a program of mine. The program processes the incidence
matrices of thousands of combinatorial structures read from a file one
by one. As the number of combinatorial objects went up I started running
out of memory even on a machine with 2 Gbyte memory.  It took me a while
to pinpoint that it was caused by matrix multiplication.

I will try the CVS.

    Peter
 


From rambam at bigpond.net.au  Sat Nov  6 15:53:26 2004
From: rambam at bigpond.net.au (Israel Raj T)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 20:53:26 GMT
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<mailman.6008.1099761054.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <878y9eya0r.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>

Kendall Clark <kendall at monkeyfist.com> writes:

> The main reason Java is "faster" is because

I would reject the premise entirely.

When looking at desktop apps made with Python, they positively whiz when compared to Java
swing apps.

As for non desktop apps, the entire portage system of Gentoo is written in Python.
'emerge sync' causes a python app to synchronise a local application database with database at a non-local mirror.
It is i/o intensive and appears to work very well and very fast.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  7 13:36:09 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 19:36:09 +0100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au> <alGid.47522$HA.14125@attbi_s01>
	<cml9h2$q70$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<1gmw2us.eerwmfbnb899N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<roy-43B82D.13103807112004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1gmwbbi.ynrkiw1ajyckrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:

> aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:
> 
> > file('sorted_autoexec.bak','w').writelines(sorted(file('autoexec.bat')))
> > 
> > 73 chars in one line.  Yeah, I cheated -- I _would_ normally put a space
> > after the comma, making the real total into seventyFOUR...
> 
> I understand what you're doing with the above one-liner, but I don't 
> think that's the best way to write it.  Unless there's some over-riding
> efficiency requirement, I'm always going to vote for easier to read over
> fewer characters.

I agree, and efficiency is just the same if you _do_ give names to
intermediate objects.  Terseness is worthy as long as it _helps_ reading
the code, by avoiding violations of Occam's Razor (introducing entities
without necessity).


> Chaining all those operations together into one big line makes it (IMHO)
> more difficult to understand what's going on, especially since it's a
> mix of method calls and global function calls.  To understand the 
> sequence of operations, you need to read from the inside-out starting
> from two different places, then put those two conceptual units together
> from left-to-right.

It's actually right-to-left, as that's the way the inside-out order
works out.  But if you read left->right, it's "to file
sorted_autoexec.bak, write lines from sorted file autoexec.bat", which
doesn't scan all THAT badly in English, I think;-).  It's right-left if
you think of things HAPPENING, of IMPERATIVE code, but it's not
necessarily that way if you think of the code as descriptive;-).


> You could refactor this in a multitude of ways, with varying levels of
> compactness or verbosity, depending on how many intermediate variables

Right.

> you want to use.  I think I would go for something like:
> 
> inFile = file ('autoexec.bat')
> outFile = file ('sorted_autoexec.bak', 'w')
> outFile.writelines (sorted (inFile))
> 
> Some would say that the intermediate variables just add bulk, but I 
> think they provide conceptual punctuation, i.e. a place for the reader
> to say, "OK, I understand that chunk, now let's see what the next chunk
> does".

My preference here might be to have a name for the output file variable
and not for the input one, but that's a pretty thin consideration.  Your
version lets one close both files explicitly, which is good.


> > one can almost see you writing it with a quill dipped in
> > ink, at a carved oak desk, on your steam-powered computer.  Charming!
> > 
> > Should you ever decide to move into the 21st century, though, don't
> > worry: Python will be there to help you do so.
> 
> I know you didn't write those lines with me in mind, but I can't help
> chuckle over them.  I'm tagged as a luddite by my co-workers because I
> still don't have a cell phone or a palm pilot or an MP-3 player, not to
> mention that I know what the program drum is used for on an 029 card 
> punch.  I am however typing this from my wireless PowerBook :-)

Heh -- you're a notch up from me, since the wireless Mac laptop I'm
using is a humble iBook 12";-).


Alex


From davebrok at soda.csua.berkeley.edu  Tue Nov 30 05:24:25 2004
From: davebrok at soda.csua.berkeley.edu (David Pokorny)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 02:24:25 -0800
Subject: Restricted Execution on the cheap
Message-ID: <-OOdncnDLL2e1jHcRVn-hw@lmi.net>

Hi,

Suppose that one wants to set up a machine to accept python code from,
say, arbitrary email, and run it safely. Would the following
(somewhat draconian) precautions be sufficient?
[assume the Python code is in hack.py]

grep exec    hack.py ==> nothing
grep eval    hack.py ==> nothing
etc... for 'import', 'builtin', 'globals','reload'
'compile', 'file', 'open', 'input', 'locals', 'vars'

Furthermore, suppose that along with the daemon that
processes the the email there is in addition a watcher daemon
that kills and restarts the email-python-runner under any of
the following conditions:

stdout > 50 MB
email-python-runner's heap is > 50 MB
email-python-runner gets stuck on a single program for more than 5 minutes

If you're interested in hacking such a device, I'm sorry to disappoint ---
it won't be up for a long time.

Thanks!
David Pokorny




From crap1234 at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  8 04:22:13 2004
From: crap1234 at hotmail.com (Stefan Axelsson)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 10:22:13 +0100
Subject: Beginning with Classes
In-Reply-To: <ad2e5$418e007e$53e8229a$28383@freeler.nl>
References: <a37cb$418cce14$53e8229a$32210@freeler.nl>
	<2v46bvF2fovnbU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<ad2e5$418e007e$53e8229a$28383@freeler.nl>
Message-ID: <2v8s68F2iksm5U1@uni-berlin.de>

Noud Aldenhoven wrote:

> I read the book too, but it doesn't dive too deep into classes.
> But you're right! It's a good book to start. 

OK. What specifically do you have a problem with? Object oriented 
programming in general or how it's implemented in Python in particular? 
If it's the former I'm not sure it's a Python book you're after.

There ought to be plenty available on the web. In it's day I found "
Design Patterns Elements of Reusable Object-Oriented Software"
by Erich Gamma, Richard Helm, Ralph Johnson, and John Vlissides, helpful 
when it came to the question of how to actually design something the "OO 
way."

But there's probably a ton of stuff out there.

If you're into free books and need a deeper Python treatise there's a 
chapter in "Dive into Python", that'll go into a bit more depth than 
"Thinking..." but granted there isn't much OO specific in "Dive..." 
Stilla good book though.

Stefan,
-- 
Stefan Axelsson  (email at http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~sax)


From nicogrubert at arcor.de  Thu Nov 25 11:01:26 2004
From: nicogrubert at arcor.de (Nico Grubert)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 17:01:26 +0100
Subject: Replacing words from strings except  'and' / 'or' / 'and not'
In-Reply-To: <16805.63967.731507.509398@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <41A5EFA9.5030907@arcor.de>
	<16805.63967.731507.509398@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <41A601D6.9080107@arcor.de>


>    def decorate(s):
>        words = s.split()
>        # make "and not" a 'word'
>        for i in range(len(words)-1,-1,-1):
>            if words[i] == 'and' and words[i+1] == 'not':
>                words[i:i+2] = ["and not"]
>        special = ('and', 'and not', 'or')
>        for word in words:
>            if word in special:
>                yield word
>            else:
>                yield "*%s*" % word
>
>    s = "test and testing and not perl or testit or example"
>    print " ".join(decorate(s))
>
>Hoping I didn't just do your homework, I wish you a Happy Thanksgiving...
>  
>
Hi Skip,

thanks a lot. That's it.
Your code is much more compact and easier to read than my first try that 
was around 100 lines of code without
having a 100% solution. Nice to see, how simple Python can be.


Kind regards,
Nico


From export at hope.cz  Tue Nov 16 04:25:15 2004
From: export at hope.cz (Lad)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 01:25:15 -0800
Subject: Pictograms and Python
Message-ID: <81a41dd.0411160125.1aa4c7c1@posting.google.com>

Hi,
did anyone try to convert a Pictogram ( = a picture with text) to text?
Lad


From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Nov 25 06:33:04 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 12:33:04 +0100
Subject: Small Database Needed
In-Reply-To: <co4cos$i9b$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>
References: <mailman.6669.1101048884.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<opshtqgtnr38clfj@buktu1>
	<co4cos$i9b$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>
Message-ID: <20041125113304.GA817@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Thu, Nov 25, 2004 at 11:43:09AM +0100, Frithiof Andreas Jensen wrote:
> "Tim R?nning" <tim.ronning at start.no> wrote:
> > Gadfly!
> 
> GadFly - as far as I got with it - does not support SQL relational
> table constraints.

SQLite does not enforce referential integrity either. But both Gadfly
and (py)sqlite support transactions, so it's  not a show-stopper.

-- Gerhard
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From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Nov  7 13:27:44 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 12:27:44 -0600
Subject: PEP new assert idiom
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org><10oqppb9s0mhe49@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.6028.1099792711.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10osq969s5vied6@news.supernews.com>


"F?bio Mendes" <niels_bohr at uol.com.br> wrote in message 
news:mailman.6028.1099792711.5135.python-list at python.org...
>> I see two difficulties with it.
>>
>> First, you can do the same thing (I think) with a
>> try block around a sequence of statements and
>> an assert in the except block. This means you
>> will need a fairly strong use case based on
>> convenience to add the syntax to the language.
>> You will have to show that it will be used a lot.
>
> I meant expression instead of statement, sorry, that's my fault. It's a
> minor cosmetic change I should say, only to avoid long grouping of
> expressions with an 'and' operator. It's better expressed as: let the
> commas take the place of 'and' in assertion verifications... Maybe that
> could be extended to other parts of the language, but the only place I
> think it would be useful is in assertion statements.

I see. That might have a syntactic difficulty, though, since the
comma is already in use as the tuple constructor operator.

John Roth
>
> Thanks,
> Fabio 



From mauriceling at acm.org  Wed Nov  3 18:50:12 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 23:50:12 GMT
Subject: documenting PLYed parsers
Message-ID: <41896eb3$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>

Hi,

I am using PLY (Python-Lex-Yacc) to write my parsers. However, it seems 
to me that PLY is using comments (especially multiline comments) in the 
Yacc component such as

def p_expression(p):
'''expression : term PLUS term'''
...

So I was thinking about how can I document my codes, which can be 
processed by epydoc or happydoc? Will my comments, enclosed by ''', 
interferes with PLY?

Any comments?

Thanks
Maurice


From markebo.a at comhem.se  Tue Nov 16 07:05:40 2004
From: markebo.a at comhem.se (Andrew Markebo)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:05:40 GMT
Subject: ctypes, accessing uInt32 and pointer to uInt32
Message-ID: <m3sm7arofo.fsf@flognat.dyndns.org>

I am taking the first steps letting python access a c-function in a
.dll-file, but need some help getting it right. WHat am I missing? 

          ---------------------------------
# Trying to access c-code placed in a DLL:
# void __stdcall F_to_C(uInt32 DegF, uInt32 *DegC);

from ctypes import *
Convert_Temp=cdll.LoadLibrary("h:/WorkingWith/PythonDLL/Convert_Temp.dll")
fahr=c_int(52)
deg=c_int()
Convert_Temp.F_to_C(fahr, byref(deg))
cdll.free_library (ConvertTemp)
          ----------------------------------

But the result I get is:

  ValueError: Procedure called with not enough arguments (8 bytes
  missing) or wrong calling convention

on the call to ConvertTemp.

If I set fahr and deg to c_long it runs but I get WindowsError:
exception: access violation writing 0x00000000


           Thank you for reading.. 

                 /Andy

-- 
 All people are equal, but some are more equal that the others
				    - Someone more equal
 But we all are told that we differ??
				    - Me.. 


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 10 17:31:10 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:31:10 -0700
Subject: tkinter gnuplot
References: <mailman.6245.1100124544.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmu4re$fvd$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Rama Calaga wrote:

> Hi, I use both python and gnuplot a lot, but I am
> unable to find a way to embed gnuplot "window/canvas" into tkinter. BLT
> option in PMW is not so powerful and not so great, any suggestions ??

I don't think there's an easy way to do that, since all access to gnuplot from
python is via a pipe. Gnuplot is an external program, not a library.  You
might be able to make gnunplot generate .pngs and then load those into a tk
canvas, but it will be clumsy.

You might want to look at http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net.  It's a true
python plotting library (as opposed to a pipe to an external program), set up
from the get-go for GUI embedding (with Tk, GTK and WX examples included).

Best,

f


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Nov 22 16:46:02 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:46:02 -0500
Subject: is int(round(val)) safe?
In-Reply-To: <DWsod.378073$wV.108786@attbi_s54>
References: <rowen-8AF206.11131622112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<cntjpk$qc2$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<DWsod.378073$wV.108786@attbi_s54>
Message-ID: <cntmi2$6rf$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Steven Bethard wrote:
> Peter Hansen wrote:
>> Since round() returns an integer
> 
> Just to clarify in case anyone else misreads this, I belive the intent 
> here was to say that round(f) -- that is, round with only a single 
> argument -- returns a floating point number with no fractional component 
> after the decimal point.  The result is still a float, not an int though:
> 
>  >>> round(3.14159265359)
> 3.0
>  >>> round(3.14159265359, 2)
> 3.1400000000000001
> 
> I think the intent was clear from the rest of the post, but I figured it 
> wouldn't hurt to clarify this for any newbies who misread it like I did.

All true.

I wonder if it would be appropriate to say something along
the lines of '''round() returns an integer, but not an "int".'''

Obviously the mathematicians will have something to say about
this.  In computers, 1.0 may not be an integer data type, but
I think in math it's still considered an integer.  I am most
definitely not going to claim authority in this area, however,
since as an engineer I consider 1.0 and 1 merely "equal to a
first approximation". <wink>

-Peter


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Nov 15 11:05:49 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:05:49 +0200
Subject: .pyc files...
References: <1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.6345.1100420943.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpel29.hfd.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<2mqfp0tuuutj01njq2400trfhd4vtbv81m@4ax.com>
	<x7wtwolygl.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <ptjhp0pm58em0uqbhoh86cp83qrd3cblbv@4ax.com>

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 18:58:50 -0600, rumours say that Mike Meyer
<mwm at mired.org> might have written:

>> Minor detail: these are the GNU versions of 'find' and 'xargs' in the
>> above example; the traditional UNIX ones do not have the -print0 and -0
>> options, respectively.
>
>Hmm. My copy of the find and xargs sources which have those features
>both have University of California copyrights on them.

Most Unices are a compromise between SysV and BSD (not OpenBSD, neither
FreeBSD, mind you) targeting POSIX conformability; in my experience [0],
none of the 'find' or 'xargs' commands I've used before GNU/Linux had
the -print0, -0 options.  POSIX 'find' does not require a -print0 option
[1], neither does the POSIX 'xargs' [2] require a '-0' one.

I have no experience with OpenBSD, FreeBSD though (which I won't
categorise as 'traditional' Unices), and I can see that emacs reports
your box as berkeley unix; I don't know which flavour though.

So, "...these are the GNU versions..." could be wrong or misleading, I
agree (but I believe it's not); I think that "...the traditional Unix
ones..." is correct though.

Cheers.


[0] a little outdated for HP-UX, Solaris; very outdated for Ultrix,
SysV/68k, AIX; quite recent for Irix
[1] http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/find.html
[2] http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/xargs.html
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
"Tssss!" --Brad Pitt as Achilles in unprecedented Ancient Greek


From dave.benjamin at gmail.com  Sun Nov  7 21:27:09 2004
From: dave.benjamin at gmail.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 19:27:09 -0700
Subject: Tkinter for system administration?
In-Reply-To: <1gmu19p.5t2083xjqct2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <gO%id.86818$bk1.17025@fed1read05>
	<418ca679$0$578$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<1gmu19p.5t2083xjqct2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PPAjd.90460$bk1.88736@fed1read05>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
>>Dave Benjamin wrote:
>>
>>>Is Tkinter pretty common for simple behind-the-scenes admin tools where
>>>a GUI is required (for instance, data entry tools for non-programmers)
>>>or has everybody moved on to wx/GTK/QT/etc.?
>>
>>Yes. It has the advantage that it is typically available when Python
>>and X11 are both available.
> 
> ...and even when X11 is not available, such as Windows, or Mac (on the
> Aqua side of things -- many people don't even bother installing the X11
> implementation on their Mac...).

Right. Windows would be main target, for now, but the ability to port to 
Mac and Linux is definitely a bonus.

>>>For simple tools, is there any 
>>>reason to switch to one of the more popular GUI frameworks?
>>
>>No.
> 
> I agree.  That's why I chose to cover Tkinter in the Nutshell, even
> though I got some surprised comments from some wx fans _and_ from people
> I know I prefer Qt: Tkinter is widely available, adequate for simple
> tools which need no complicated functionality nor spiffy looks, _and_
> simple enough that I could cover its fundamentals in 30 pages, examples
> included.

Thanks. This is what I wanted to hear. =)

Dave


From luismgz at gmail.com  Tue Nov 23 22:37:52 2004
From: luismgz at gmail.com (Neuruss)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 19:37:52 -0800
Subject: looking for a good introduction to OOP
References: <MPG.1c005cd4c4025381989685@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <c56b627e.0411231937.5c5d2d69@posting.google.com>

I assume that you already know the basics, but if you're just starting
out and you need a very clear, simple and real life example of OOP
concepts in action, I suggest Alan Gauld's online tutorial (see third
post above).

He introduces OOP with an example of a banking application. 
This was just what I needed to make the mental "switch" to understand
OOP.
I think this example is an excellent one for somebody new to OOP
concepts.

http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld

By the way, thanks Alan!


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  6 17:17:54 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 23:17:54 +0100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<418C7DCB.60502@acm.org>
	<mailman.5997.1099739459.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418d3f0b$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <1gmup4m.h9aeb21gu7areN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Kent Johnson <kent3737 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I rarely find myself acting as an apologist for Java, and I understand
> that the point Alex is making is that Python's performance for this 
> operation is quite good, and that the OP should post some code, but this
> is really too unfair a comparison for me not to say something.

I'm glad I posted a sufficiently silly comparison to elicit some
response, then;-)


> There are two major differences between these two programs:
> - The Java version is doing a character by character copy; the Python
> program reads the entire file into a buffer in one operation.
> - The Java program is converting the entire file to and from Unicode;
> the Python program is copying the literal bytes.

Right: each is using the respective language's defaults, and Python's
are apparently tuned for speed, while Java's apparenty aren't.


> Here is a much more comparable Java program (that will fail if the file
> size is over 2^31-1):

I believe that the Python program, if run on a suitable 64-bit OS, on a
ridiculously-large-memory machine, could succeed for much larger files
than that.  Machines with many gigabytes of physical RAM are becoming
far from absurd these days -- I can't yet afford to throw 2500 euros out
of the window to buy 8 GB of fast RAM, but if I could it would fit
snugly into my own cheap dual-G5 powermac, for example (old model: I got
it used/reconditioned many months ago; I think the current cheaper model
does top out at 4 GB).  On 32-bit machines or OSs, of course, Python's
memory limits _will_ byte at fewer GB than that, too.


> import java.io.*;
> 
> public class Copy {
>      public static void main(String[] args) throws IOException {
>          File inputFile = new File("/usr/share/dict/web2");
>          int bufferSize = (int)inputFile.length();
>          File outputFile = new File("/tmp/acopy");
> 
>          FileInputStream in = new FileInputStream(inputFile);
>          FileOutputStream out = new FileOutputStream(outputFile);
> 
>          byte buffer[] = new byte[bufferSize];
>          int len=bufferSize;
> 
>          while (true)
>          {
>              len=in.read(buffer,0,bufferSize);
>              if (len<0 )
>                  break;
>              out.write(buffer,0,len);
>          }
> 
>          in.close();
>          out.close();
>      }
> }
> 
> Here are the results I get with this program and Alex's Python program
> on my G4-400 Mac:
> kent% time java Copy
> 0.440u 0.320s 0:00.96 79.1%     0+0k 9+3io 0pf+0w
> kent% time python Copy.py
> 0.100u 0.120s 0:00.31 70.9%     0+0k 2+4io 0pf+0w

With your program, and mine simply converted to run inside a main()
function rather than at module-level for comparison, switching to tcsh
for direct comparison with the format you're using, I see:

[kallisti:~] alex% time java Copy
0.200u 0.140s 0:00.54 62.9%     0+0k 0+0io 0pf+0w
[kallisti:~] alex% time python Copy.py
0.080u 0.020s 0:00.13 76.9%     0+0k 0+1io 0pf+0w

Which python and java versions are you using?  I'm trying to use the
latest and greatest of each, 2.4b1 (I know, I know, I need to install
b2!) for Python, 1.4.2_05 for Java -- just upgraded to MacOSX 10.3.6,
and my /usr/share/dict/web2 is 2486825 bytes.

> The Python program is still substantially faster (3x), but with nowhere
> near the margin Alex saw.

I still see a 4:1 ratio, but, sure, nowhere like the 20:1 my originally
silly example showed.  Maybe a more realistic program would use a buffer
of some fixed length, rather than 'as long as the whole file'.  Say:

         int bufferSize = 64 * 1024;

in a program that otherwise is just like yours, for the Java side of
things.  Switching back to bash because I can't stand long exposures to
anything in the csh family;-), I see:

kallisti:~ alex$ time java Copy

real    0m0.521s
user    0m0.200s
sys     0m0.120s

after several runs, so everything gets a chance to go to cache.  Oh,
btw, I did compile with 'javac -O Copy.java'.

The closest Python equivalent I know how to write is:

def main():
    inputFile = file("/usr/share/dict/web2", 'r')
    bufferSize = 64 * 1024
    outputFile = file("/tmp/acopy", 'w')

    inf = inputFile.read
    ouf = outputFile.write

    while 1:
        buf = inf(bufferSize)
        if not buf: break
        ouf(buf)

    inputFile.close()
    outputFile.close()

and its performance:

kallisti:~ alex$ time python -O Copy.py

real    0m0.135s
user    0m0.050s
sys     0m0.050s

so we still see the 4:1 ratio in favour of Python.  It's barely more
than 3:1 in actual CPU time, user and sys, but for some reason Python
seems to be able to get more of the CPU's % attention -- I don't claim
to understand this!-)

So I scp'd everything over to the powermac dual g5 1.8 GHz, and ssh'd
there to do more measurements -- no python 2.4 there (it's my production
machine -> no betas!) and again I measured after a few runs to let stuff
get into cache:

macarthur:~ alex$ time java Copy

real    0m0.163s
user    0m0.040s
sys     0m0.110s

macarthur:~ alex$ time python -O Copy.py

real    0m0.039s
user    0m0.020s
sys     0m0.020s

Far better real/cpu ratios of course (a dual-CPU machine does that;-).
And faster overall.  But roughly the same 4:1 ratio in favour of Python.


So, same thing on the oldie but goodie Linux box.  In that case I don't
have an updated Java -- Kaffe 1.0.7 will have to do!  The CPU is oldish
(Athlon 1.2G), but the disk subsystem is really really good.  So I got
(again, good repeatable results after a few runs to stabilize):

[alex at lancelot alex]$ time java Copy
0.07user 0.04system 0:00.11elapsed 98%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata
0maxresident)k
0inputs+0outputs (1623major+659minor)pagefaults 0swaps

[alex at lancelot alex]$ time python2.4 -O Copy.py
0.02user 0.01system 0:00.02elapsed 115%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata
0maxresident)k
0inputs+0outputs (460major+241minor)pagefaults 0swaps

don't ask ME how python got over 100% CPU on a single-CPU machine; I
guess the task is just too small, at such tiny fractions of a second, to
avoid anomalies.  Still, the roughly 4:1 performance ratio appears to be
repeatable here; and an interesting clue is that _pagefaults_ also
appear to be in roughly 4:1 ratio.

But clearly we need bigger tasks to make measurements less fraught with
anomalies.  Unfortunately, not knowing on exactly which tasks the OP had
observed and measured his reported results that "Python is slower than
Java" in "a disk intensive I/O operation", it's hard to guess.
Obviously, his results are anything but _trivial_ to reproduce based on
the dearth of information that he has released about them so far; I find
it hard to think of something more disk-intensive than a simple copy of
one file to another.  Assuming he does have some interest in
ascertaining the truth and getting his questions answered, perhaps he'll
deign to give us Java and Python sources, and reference data file[s],
for a small benchmark that _does_ reproduce his results.  Otherwise, it
appears we may be just shooting in the dark.


Alex


From rdm at rcblue.com  Wed Nov 24 07:23:35 2004
From: rdm at rcblue.com (Dick Moores)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 04:23:35 -0800
Subject: Trouble with psyco
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041122020641.042be500@rcblue.com>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20041122020641.042be500@rcblue.com>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041124035933.04e761b0@rcblue.com>

Thanks for the insightful and instructive responses.

 >>> import sys
 >>> sys.maxint
2147483647

Because my sys.maxint (2**31-1) is the limit of Python's integers, I ran 
a bunch of tests using both 2**31-1 (2147483647) and 2**31 (2147483648), 
with psyco and without, with longs and not. And then a set at 4000000000.

Here's what I got:

+psyco -longs 2147483647 4

+psyco -longs 2147483648 361

+psyco +longs 2147483647 368

+psyco +longs 2147483648 367

-psyco -longs 2147483647 444

-psyco -longs 2147483648 790

-psyco +longs 2147483647 908

-psyco +longs 2147483648 934

+psyco -longs 4000000000 725

-psyco -longs 4000000000 1577

+psyco +longs 4000000000 731

-psyco +longs 4000000000 1669

The last numbers are seconds.
+longs means that the script was modified so that k starts as 0L, and max 
is a long.

Dick Moores

Dick Moores wrote at 02:07 11/22/2004:
>psyco is acting a bit psycho for me.
>
>Please see my spinForWeb.py at <http://www.rcblue.com/Python/spinForWeb.py>
>
>When psyco is in use, entering an integer somewhere between 2000 and 
>2500 causes my computer to freeze. Not really freeze but the program 
>doesn't finish, and I have to quit with a ^Q.
>
>psyco is really impressive, but I'm disappointed that I can't 
>demonstrate (to friends) counting with it to numbers above 2 billion.
>
>If I remark out the "psyco.bind(spin)" line, there's no problem no 
>matter what integer I enter. Can someone explain what the problem with 
>psyco is?
>
>Windows XP, Python 2.3.4
>
>Thanks,
>
>Dick Moores
>rdm at rcblue.com




From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Sat Nov  6 06:06:42 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 6 Nov 2004 11:06:42 GMT
Subject: Has anyone released a Python "mock filesystem" for automated
	testing?
References: <OImdnYXxIItbfhfcRVn-iA@powergate.ca>
	<x7is8ksrnh.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <slrncopbtn.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 01:04:34 -0600, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
...
> Second, consider using os.sep for path seperation, so that testing can
> be done correctly for the OS the project is running on. Or possibly a
> flag to indicate whether or not you want to use os.sep.

The mock file system should probably have a really bizarre os.sep, to
provoke code which assumes '/'.

Overall, it's an interesting idea.

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 10 14:26:56 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:26:56 GMT
Subject: property for class objects
References: <mailman.6198.1100056948.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zvgkd.40384$ak3.1503768@wagner.videotron.net>
	<4191edee.85006843@news.oz.net>
	<eIokd.43311$ak3.1624905@wagner.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <4192594f.112495279@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:28:22 -0500, Steve Menard <foo at bar.com> wrote:
[...]
>I wasnt aware of those descriptors (I am just now delving in the "meta" 
>side of things), and it looks promising. So thanks for taking the time 
>to tlel me about it :)
>
>Static variables are not just constants however, and the __set__ has to 
>work as normal. I did a quick test and it seems by mistake you can even 
>erase the descriptor with a new value .. not good.
>
Yes, the __set__ only gets called for instance attributes, unless there
is something intercepting the class attribute setattr.

>At least I can use this for the constant static values (which probably 
>comprises the bulk) and use the __setattr__ to prevent overwriting them.
>
If they're actually constant, why couldn't they be plain old class variables
protected by __setattr__?

>Steve
>
>Still looking for a more complete solution howeber
Don't know what syntax restrictions you have, but if you are trying to simulate
shared static value assignment via an apparent instance attribute assignment, e.g.,

    inst.static = value

why do you need to write

    InstClass.static = something

at all? You could always make a dummy instance to use when all you
wanted to do was access the shared statics, e.g.,

    shared = InstClass()
    ...
    shared.static = something

or even a dynamically created throwaway instance, as in

    InstClass().static = something

If you wanted to designate certain names for shared statics to be stored
as class variables, you could do something like (only tested as you see here ;-):

 >>> class HasStatics(object):
 ...     static_names = 'sa sb sz'.split()
 ...     def __setattr__(self, name, value):
 ...         if name in self.static_names: setattr(type(self), name, value)
 ...         else: object.__setattr__(self, name, value)
 ...
 >>> hs = HasStatics()
 >>> vars(hs)
 {}
 >>> hs.x = 123
 >>> vars(hs)
 {'x': 123}
 >>> hs.sa = 456
 >>> vars(hs)
 {'x': 123}
 >>> HasStatics.sa
 456
 >>> hs.sa
 456
 >>> vars(HasStatics).keys()
 ['__module__', '__setattr__', '__dict__', 'sa', '__weakref__', '__doc__', 'static_names']

static_names would be faster as a dict of the names (with ignored values), or possibly now
a set.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Nov 24 12:24:22 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:24:22 -0800
Subject: protocols, inheritance and polymorphism
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>
	<Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<YWKod.137814$HA.44609@attbi_s01>
	<donn-F6A9D8.11153623112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<tqadnT2kAIXJEj7cRVn-hA@rogers.com>
	<donn-F39B72.13183123112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<mqedndyH_YCYUT7cRVn-uQ@rogers.com>
	<donn-D778C1.17100223112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<786dnYZkrq-ieT7cRVn-tw@rogers.com> <1101273995.954137@yasure>
	<s4qdnUDCJoJ9vjncRVn-hA@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <donn-6E03C2.09242224112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <s4qdnUDCJoJ9vjncRVn-hA at rogers.com>,
 "Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote
...
> It's hard to argue against Smalltalk.  I haven't used it for many years so I 
> don't remember it but it was THE language of choice for an OOP course I took 
> oh so many years ago.  And I still see it mentioned as a model for OOP.  I 
> never learned Objective C so I cannot argue with that either. 
> Unfortunately, as much as I am learning to like Python, I don't think I see 
> it as a picture perfect OOP language.  It may be a controversial opinion but 
> I am not at all satisfied with encapsulation in Python (you cannot hide any 
> of a class's implementation).

> Can you elaborate on problems that static languages have with OOP?  We have 
> been touching on parametric polymorphism and that is a valid point.  I also 
> see multiple inheritance as being very poorly implemented in C++ and Java to 
> the point where books on C++ that treat the subject discourage you from 
> using it and Java has effectively designed it out of the language (you can 
> implement many interfaces but you can extend only one class).  What do you 
> have in mind?

I am really too unschooled in these matters to pursue that.
I have mentioned Haskell a couple of times, and that's my
perspective on static typing.  I recommend it as an interesting
exercise:  learn Haskell, find out what static typing is about.
It isn't perfect, but it's leagues ahead of C++ etc.

I don't have any beef with multiple inheritance, in fact the
notion of "mix-in" classes might have some potential to be the
basis for a more sound approach to OO.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Nov  4 07:03:56 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 06:03:56 -0600
Subject: pep 336:  Make None Callable
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <10ok6lenkj2mt3e@news.supernews.com>

This is simply propagating the
effect of a null pointer in C.
That's what the null object
pattern is for.

John Roth


"The Eternal Squire" <eternalsquire at comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw at comcast.com...
> PEP: 336
> Title: Make None Callable
> Version: $Revision: 1.1 $
> Last-Modified: $Date: 2004/11/03 16:58:30 $
> Author: Andrew McClelland
> Status: Draft
> Type: Standards Track
> Content-Type: text/plain
> Created: 28-Oct-2004
> Post-History:
>
>
> Abstract
>
>     None should be a callable object that when called with any
>     arguments has no side effect and returns None.
>
>
> Motivation
>
>     To allow a programming style for selectable actions that is more
>     in accordance with the minimalistic functional programming goals
>     of the Python language.
>
>
> Rationale
>
>     Allow the use of None in method tables as a universal no effect
>     rather than either (1) checking a method table entry against None
>     before calling, or (2) writing a local no effect method with
>     arguments similar to other functions in the table.
>
>     The semantics would be effectively,
>
>         class None:
>
>             def __call__(self, *args):
>                 pass
>
>
> How To Use
>
>     Before, checking function table entry against None:
>
>         class Select:
>
>             def a(self, input):
>                 print 'a'
>
>             def b(self, input):
>                 print 'b'
>
>             def c(self, input);
>                 print 'c'
>
>             def __call__(self, input):
>                 function = { 1 : self.a,
>                          2 : self.b,
>                          3 : self.c
>                        }.get(input, None)
>                 if function:  return function(input)
>
>     Before, using a local no effect method:
>
>         class Select:
>
>             def a(self, input):
>                 print 'a'
>
>             def b(self, input):
>                 print 'b'
>
>             def c(self, input);
>                 print 'c'
>
>             def nop(self, input):
>                 pass
>
>             def __call__(self, input):
>                 return { 1 : self.a,
>                      2 : self.b,
>                      3 : self.c
>                        }.get(input, self.nop)(input)
>
>     After:
>
>         class Select:
>
>             def a(self, input):
>                 print 'a'
>
>             def b(self, input):
>                 print 'b'
>
>             def c(self, input);
>                 print 'c'
>
>             def __call__(self, input):
>                 return { 1 : self.a,
>                      2 : self.b,
>                      3 : self.c
>                        }.get(input, None)(input)
>
>
> References
>
>     [1] Python Reference Manual, Section 3.2,
>         http://docs.python.org/ref/ref.html
>
>
> Copyright
>
>     This document has been placed in the public domain.
>
>
>
> Local Variables:
> mode: indented-text
> indent-tabs-mode: nil
> sentence-end-double-space: t
> fill-column: 70
> End: 



From mesteve_bpleaseremovethis at hotmail.com  Sat Nov 27 15:08:50 2004
From: mesteve_bpleaseremovethis at hotmail.com (StvB)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:08:50 GMT
Subject: [web_framework] Basic Question regarding web framework
References: <mailman.6842.1101575496.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m95qd.28429$6q2.26431@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>

>I have started writting app with python 6 months ago and I fall in love 
>with the language (if I can say that ;-)

So, it had you at Hello, basically?






From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 13:54:55 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:54:55 GMT
Subject: [OT] Re: executable from python cod
In-Reply-To: <77969915.0411241036.553c3da3@posting.google.com>
References: <77969915.0411241036.553c3da3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3O4pd.455781$D%.219918@attbi_s51>

Mmmm...  Python cod.  I'd serve it with a nice dynamic-typing salsa, a 
side of spicy multiple-inheritance pilaf and a creamy tuple-unpacking 
mousse for dessert! =)

Steve


From mwm at mired.org  Wed Nov 10 14:04:09 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:04:09 -0600
Subject: saving curses screen state (putwin() and getwin() again)
References: <slrncp37ds.9c2.fake@sewage.raw-sewage.fake>
Message-ID: <x77jotplue.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Matt Garman <fake at not-real.bogus> writes:

> I'm working on a curses-based application in Python.  I've
> implemented what I call a "Chooser" (a fancy name for a menu):
>
>         ---> 1. Choice 1 <---
>              2. Choice 2     
>              3. Choice 3     
>
> So the user can use the arrow keys to change choices.  When he hits
> enter, the screen is re-drawn with a new interface.  When that
> interface is quit, the screen should return to the Chooser, exactly
> as it was left.
>
> So my strategy is to call putwin() before going to the new
> interface, and call getwin() after returning from the previous
> interface.
>
> This works as described the *first* time, but subsequent calls to
> getwin() return the window that was saved with the first call to
> putwin().  I.e., it's as though only the first call to putwin() has
> any effect.
>
> Any thoughts?

Yes. Show us some code, please. There are any number of bugs that
could cause this behavior, and it'd be easier to narrow things down if
we knew what you were actually doing.

   <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From and-google at doxdesk.com  Mon Nov  1 18:05:27 2004
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 1 Nov 2004 15:05:27 -0800
Subject: DOM appendChild??
References: <mailman.5741.1099271446.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0411011505.37a2ca18@posting.google.com>

Juliano Freitas <jubafre at atlas.ucpel.tche.br> wrote:

> I have to append in a xml file as a child another xml file. How can i
> get this?

> i try parent.appendChild(document)

A node from one document can't directly be inserted into another. You
need to call Document.importNode first. Also you can't put the
Document node directly into a parent, because it is by definition the
root object of the entire DOM tree. What you probably want to do is
insert the root element node, which you can read with
Document.documentElement:

  el= parent.ownerDocument.importNode(document.documentElement, True)
  parent.appendNode(el)

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/


From peter at semantico.com  Tue Nov  2 11:36:46 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 16:36:46 +0000
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
In-Reply-To: <du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
	<du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <4187b7a1$0$2383$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Ville Vainio wrote:
> I think you are overselling CPAN a little bit here. It is not an
> absolute requirement, and I think Python can easily surpass Perl in
> popularity even without CPAN functionality. Perl popularity in general
> seems to be going down, and I don't think Perl is something to worry
> about anymore. Hell, people rarely even mention Perl these days
> anyway.

Just today we required a module that was not installed on our system.

sudo perl -MCPAN -e 'install Data::Pager'

And it was installed with all it's dependencies. Having a central repository for 
all your modules is a real time saver. All you need to know is the name of the 
module and away you go. No searching for website addresses (I don't even know 
where the module was downloaded from) and seeing which one has the correct 
version and then going through the whole thing again for the dependencies.

CPAN has made it easier for Perl programmers to get work done, it would be of 
benefit to Python programmers too.

Talk to the people at CPAN, they may help you to set one up. Over in Ruby land a 
similar system is being set up called Gems. Once you have persuaded the module 
creators to place their wares on CPyAN then it will be the 'one stop shop' for 
Python module and then anyone who writes a new one would automatically assume 
that they need to put theirs there too.

> I don't think Python is too unpopular to sell to companies
> anymore. All you need to do is to demonstrate technical superiority,
> and that should be trivial if the other contender is Perl. Provided
> that your company is not already too stuck with Perl, which is rarely
> the case because with Perl you usually dealing with simple scripts.

You are talking out of your arse.

> Perhaps the priority should be to build a generic Open Source
> catalogued repository retrieval system. I don't see why the Python
> community should do something like this alone, because there really
> isn't too many Python specific aspects in the problem anyway.

The real trick is going to be getting the existing module authors to commit to 
putting their code in your repository in the first place and then making sure 
your CPyAN tools are part of the standard Python distribution.

Well worth the effort.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Nov 18 00:45:33 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 00:45:33 -0500
Subject: SQL Server stored prcedures with output parameters
Message-ID: <HHWmd.10924$nj.1324@lakeread01>

Has anyone, with any driver whatsoever, managed to retrieve output 
parameters from a SQL Server stored procedure? I've just been rather 
embarrassed to find out it's not as easy as it might seem, and people 
are saying bad things about Python as a result :-(

mx.ODBC, which I regard as a highly-capable module, does not support the 
callproc() API, and suggests use of the ODBC call format. It has caveats 
in (some of) the documentation implying that output parameters cannot be 
handled due to their indeterminate memory requirements, however.

The adodbapi module does have a stored procedure call in its unit tests, 
and manages to pass that test, but when I call my own stored procedure 
(which retrieves columns into the output parameters rather than using 
SET to establish their values) I get back whatever value I supplied as 
the output parameter rather than what the stored procedure is returning.

So, can anyone help me to fulfill what must be a very common database 
requirement?

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Nov  1 12:36:30 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 10:36:30 -0700
Subject: Few questions
In-Reply-To: <5c882bb5.0411010835.5a409600@posting.google.com>
References: <5c882bb5.0411010835.5a409600@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041101101255.0C47.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile) wrote:
> 
> Hello, I have few more things to say/ask (left from a discussion in
> another Python Newsgroup).
> 
> Is it possibile (and useful) to write few small sub-sections of the
> Python interpreter in Assembly for Pentium (III/IV)/AMD, to speed up
> the interpreter for Win/Linux boxes running on those CPUs? (Such parts
> don't replace the C versions, kept for compatibilty).
> I think the HLA (High Level Assembly) language can be fit for this
> purpose, it's a cute language:
> http://webster.cs.ucr.edu/AsmTools/HLA/index.html

It may or may not be useful or faster to implement portions of the
Python interpreter in assembly.  Generally assembly has performance
benefits and penalties per processor that are hard to understand.

I would be willing to wager that time would be better spent checking out
the different compile-time options for the interpreter, as C optimizes
fairly well.



> I've done a little comparison of the speed of Python lists and arrays:
[snip code]
> On a old Win2K PC it gives:
> C:\py>speed_test 1
> List test, n = 3000000:
> Timing: 2.804 s
> 
> C:\py>speed_test 2
> Array test, n = 3000000:
> Timing: 3.521 s
> 
> 
> Python lists are arrays of pointers to objects, I think (a test shows
> that here they use about 16 bytes for every number).
> And the Python Arrays are packed: every number here uses 4 bytes.
> Why do lists are faster here?

Crucial observation:
Lists are indeed arrays of pointers that point to 'int objects'.
Arrays (of integers) are arrays of actual stored x-bit integers (where x
is 32 in this case).

In order to write to an array the value of a standard Python integer,
one must look into the 16 byte Python integer to copy the proper 4 bytes
into the array, do bounds checking, etc.

In order to write to a list the value of a standard Python integer, a
pointer copy is sufficient.


Lists win because it is a pointer copy as opposed to an struct lookup
and value copy with bounds checking.


> Memory cleaning: in the last script I've added some calls to a Win
> version of the small "pslist" program, and I've put a "del v" command
> after the timings. And I've seen:
> 
> C:\py>speed_test 1
> List test, n = 3000000:
> 1) Process size: 1408 KB.
> 2) Process size: 48928 KB.
> 3) Process size: 37204 KB.
> 
> C:\py>speed_test 2
> Array test, n = 3000000:
> 1) Process size: 1416 KB.
> 2) Process size: 13152 KB.
> 3) Process size: 1416 KB.
> 
> 1 is at the start of the script before v creation, 2 is after its
> inizialization loop, and 3 is after the "del v" command, like this:
> 
> used_mem(1)
> from array import array
> v = array("l", [0] * n)
> for i in xrange(len(v)):
> 		v[i] = i
> used_mem(2)
> del v
> used_mem(3)
> 
> The garbage collector removes at once the array (this is easy, it's
> just a lump of memory with little extra things), but the memory used
> by the list isn't free even a little time later. (I think that to
> understand how/when such such garbage collector works, I have to read
> the Python C sources...)


Python arrays (from the array module) are allocated as a block, and the
values of integers are stored within.  Because everything is all nice
and contained, it can be easily freed (just like C arrays).

With Python lists, certainly the pointers to the integer objects are
easily allocated and freed, and the integer objects themselves sit in
the integer free-list.

Now, obviously a bunch of those entries aren't being used after one
deletes the big list of integer, so why isn't it being freed?  Due to
the semantics of the free list (you can't reorganize the integers on the
free list, etc.), it cannot be reduced in size.

 - Josiah



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Nov 26 13:10:29 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:10:29 -0300
Subject: dictionary initialization
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7C6B@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca]

#- Just received an email from Batista, Facundo. Below are some 
#- quote and
#- ...
#- > The type of the right hand operator does not have nothing 
#- to do with
#- > the
#- > type of the left operand!
#- > 
#- 
#- You mean in Python, of course. I can see this is going the religious
#- direction now.

<lost>
Yes. Maybe I incorrectly assumed that you were talking about Python
dictionaries because, well, this is the Python list...
</lost>

.	Facundo
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From peter at semantico.com  Wed Nov  3 10:19:13 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:19:13 +0000
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
In-Reply-To: <du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
	<du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <4188f6f2$0$1925$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Ville Vainio wrote:
> Hell, people rarely even mention Perl these days anyway.

People hardly speak Mandarin Chinese these days, I can go months without hearing 
any being spoken. Same goes for Urdu and Spanish.

Today we learn the difference between an 'opinion' and an 'informed opinion'.


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Nov 17 07:03:48 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:03:48 +0100
Subject: why python?
References: <cndpgm$s82$1@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca>
	<1gndypu.1e28rl1cgo8nsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cnfen4$hq8$03$1@news.t-online.com>

> Googling for python success stories will show off a few notable cases

Google itself is a python success story - for example this here:

 https://adwords.google.com/support/bin/topic.py?topic=102

They don't run everything on python - but only a few weeks ago offered a job
here in c.l.py
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From laurent.pointal at wanadoo.fr  Thu Nov  4 12:45:31 2004
From: laurent.pointal at wanadoo.fr (Laurent Pointal)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 18:45:31 +0100
Subject: question de bonne doc
References: <418505b9$0$3662$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <418a6ac5$0$15698$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

orionlux wrote:

> bonjour
> j ai install? python sur ma distrib linux mandrake 10
> je suis a la recherche d une bonne DOCUMENTATION (? savoir la liste
> des instructions python + des exemples ) mais je ne trouve rien pour l
> instant
> 
> les livres o'reilly sur python sont decevant
> qui connait de bonnes<references de livres et de lien sur le net ?
> merci de me repondre
> 
> orionlux

J'ai commenc? une liste de bouquins ici:
http://www.limsi.fr/Individu/pointal/python.html#liens-livres

Par contre, je ne notes pas les bouquins (j'y mets les liens vers des revues
et vers des sites qui se sont charg?s de noter certains ouvrages).

A+

Laurent.




From danperl at rogers.com  Sun Nov 14 22:47:14 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:47:14 -0500
Subject: .pyc files...
References: <1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.6345.1100420943.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpel29.hfd.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<2mqfp0tuuutj01njq2400trfhd4vtbv81m@4ax.com>
	<x7wtwolygl.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <w5GdnQyrL4ReuwXcRVn-gA@rogers.com>

Ok, this thread has been going on long enough in this direction so I don't 
feel too self-conscious plugging my project (http://pyfmf.sourceforge.net/). 
I have yet another solution to this problem and my solution is 
platforms-independent.  Look especially at the "Mini Tutorial" on 
http://pyfmf.sourceforge.net/zago.html.  It shows exactly how you can clean 
up the .pyc and the .pyo files in a set of directory trees.  And as always, 
I am interested in hearing opinions.

Dan

"Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
news:x7wtwolygl.fsf at guru.mired.org...
> Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> writes:
>
>> On 14 Nov 2004 13:30:38 GMT, rumours say that Nick Craig-Wood
>> <nick at craig-wood.com> might have written:
>>
>>>This *is* bullet proof though
>>>
>>>  find . -name '*.pyc' -print0 | xargs -0 rm -f
>>>
>>>And if you don't want an error when there aren't any files
>>>
>>>  find . -name '*.pyc' -print0 | xargs -0r rm -f
>>>
>>>End unix sysadmin lecture ;-)
>>
>> Minor detail: these are the GNU versions of 'find' and 'xargs' in the
>> above example; the traditional UNIX ones do not have the -print0 and -0
>> options, respectively.
>
> Hmm. My copy of the find and xargs sources which have those features
> both have University of California copyrights on them.
>
>     <mike
> -- 
> Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
> Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more 
> information. 




From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 29 15:06:05 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:06:05 GMT
Subject: Operator Overloading
References: <f6b69c93.0411250014.61315219@posting.google.com>
	<co48s1$r1f$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<f6b69c93.0411250635.740bda00@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41ab8096.1351865189@news.oz.net>

On 25 Nov 2004 06:35:23 -0800, boisgera at isia.cma.fr (Sebastien Boisgerault) wrote:

>Peter Maas <peter at somewhere.com> wrote in message news:<co48s1$r1f$1 at swifty.westend.com>...
>> Sebastien Boisgerault schrieb:
>> > I wonder if the following quotation from the Python Reference Manual 
>> > (release 2.3.3) about operator overloading is true :
>> > 
>> > "For example, if a class defines a method named __getitem__(), and x
>> > is an instance of this class, then x[i] is equivalent to
>> > x.__getitem__(i)"
>>  [...]
>> >>>>from Numeric import *
>> >>>>a = array([0.5])
>> >>>>a[0]
>> > 
>> > 0.5
>> > 
>> > but
>> > 
>> > 
>> >>>>a.__getitem__(0)
>> > 
>> > Traceback (most recent call last):
>> >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>> > AttributeError: __getitem__
>> 
>> The quotation above is true. Short form:
>> 
>> IF __getitem__ in dict THEN [] works.
>
>Not exactly the same assertion: 
>replace "__getitem__ in dict" by "__getitem__ in the class dict" 
>and more importantly "[] works" by "[] and __getitem__" are *equivalent*.
>
>Here, "__getitem__" does belongs to type(a).__dict__,
>so "[]" and "__getitem__" should work exactly the same 
>according to the reference, but they don't.
>
>> [...]
>> but this is not what the Python Reference Manual says. Im not a
>> Numeric expert but AFAIK Numeric arrays are basically C arrays
>> having [] intrinsically so there's no need no deliver it via
>> __getitem__.
>
>I would buy your argument if I couldn't find the "__getitem__" method.
>But it does exist ! Except that it is hidden is the class __dict__ and
>apparently cannot be recovered from the instance.__getitem__ call ...
> 
>Thanks for your help,
>
>SB
I believe the new style classes require looking for a descriptor (which
includes functions, which become bound methods via their descriptor nature)
with the attribute name given, before grabbing something from the instance dict.
Otherwise instance attributes would always shadow corresponding method or property
names, and those things wouldn't work, or would work as in the old style classes.

Therefore looking for __getitem__ is a little trickier than it might seem.
It has to work like any other name, so a.__getitem__ can't be treated differently from a.foo.

So as you noticed, the first place to look is in type(a).__dict__ (which is
also an attribute lookup BTW, with name '__dict__' which could be a descriptor
too, but we'll ignore that for the moment. See further below for that).

Consider that given

 >>> import Numeric
 >>> a = Numeric.array([0.5])
 >>> a
 array([ 0.5])

this

 >>> a[0]
 0.5

produces the same result as this

 >>> type(a).__dict__['__getitem__'].__get__(a, type(a)).__call__(0)
 0.5

So what happens when we look for type(a).__dict__? '__dict__' is just a name,
so we have to look for a method or property in the chain of base classes.
The buck presumably stops at some base class descriptor named __dict__, if any,
and that descriptor, if present, determines what you get. The chain of search
for type(a).__dict__ presumably starts looking in type(type(a)).__dict__, but

 >>> type(type(a))
 <type 'type'>

is already at the end of the chain.

 >>> type(type(a)).__dict__
 <dictproxy object at 0x0090B4D0>

Remember, we're going to look _in_ the __dict__, not _for_ it here ;-)

But this has already been processed through the attribute magic, so to see
what '__dict__' is without that processing, we use the proxy to look it up:

 >>> type(type(a)).__dict__['__dict__']
 <attribute '__dict__' of 'type' objects>

Which is a descriptor if it has a __get__ method:
 >>> type(type(a)).__dict__['__dict__'].__get__
 <method-wrapper object at 0x0090B4D0>

Sure enough, so we pass type(a) and its type to that, and get back type(a).__dict__ the long way:

 >>> type(type(a)).__dict__['__dict__'].__get__(type(a), type(type(a)))
 <dictproxy object at 0x009015B0>

now we can look for __getitem__ in that:
 >>> type(type(a)).__dict__['__dict__'].__get__(type(a), type(type(a)))['__getitem__']
 <slot wrapper '__getitem__' of 'array' objects>

Which being the function of a method, should have a descriptor's __get__ method, by which
to become a bound method:

 >>> type(type(a)).__dict__['__dict__'].__get__(type(a), type(type(a)))['__getitem__'].__get__
 <method-wrapper object at 0x0090B4D0>

So we pass it the instance and its type:
 >>> type(type(a)).__dict__['__dict__'].__get__(type(a), type(type(a)))['__getitem__'].__get__(a, type(a))
 <method-wrapper object at 0x009015B0>

Which should have a __call__ method if it's callable:
 >>> type(type(a)).__dict__['__dict__'].__get__(type(a), type(type(a)))['__getitem__'].__get__(
                                                                             a, type(a)).__call__
 <method-wrapper object at 0x0090B4D0>

Which we can call with the index
 >>> type(type(a)).__dict__['__dict__'].__get__(type(a), type(type(a)))['__getitem__'].__get__(
                                                                             a, type(a)).__call__(0)
 0.5

Fortunately, we don't normally have to think about all that when we write

 >>> a[0]
 0.5

;-)

Caveat: this is not based on reading the code internals, so I could be misinterpreting surface
appearances, but at least it ought to be clear that a[0] involves a lot of dynamic decisions that
might ordinarlily not be taken, but which must be allowed for in looking for an innocent method
like __getitem__ ;-)

[Hm, just looking in oubox: this apparently didn't go out the other day.]

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From danperl at rogers.com  Tue Nov  2 10:26:07 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 10:26:07 -0500
Subject: wxPython frame
References: <41872581$1@news.seeder.net>
Message-ID: <f6-dnf8IouiOOhrcRVn-sA@rogers.com>


"Austin" <austin at maxtronic.com.tw> wrote in message 
news:41872581$1 at news.seeder.net...
> In tkinter, the dialogs  has the function grab_set(). That means disable
> other windows while it's open.
> Is there any function like that in wxPython. I want to use it on my frame.
> For example, a.py is main frame. There is a button "config" to open
> b.py(config frame).
> If the function exists in wxPython, i could put that in b.py when b.py is
> open and we couldn't
> click a.py. Or any other ways to avoid click a.py when b.py is open.
>
> Thanks a lot.

Your question refers to frames, but I think you may mean dialogs (subclasses 
of wx.Dialog).  So wx.Dialog.ShowModal( ) may be what you're looking for. 
See 
http://www.lpthe.jussieu.fr/~zeitlin/wxWindows/docs/wxwin_wxdialog.html#wxdialogshowmodal.

Here is an example with a file dialog from a project I am working on:
        dlg = wx.FileDialog(
            self,
            message="Save file as ...",
            defaultDir=os.path.join(os.environ['zigzag_install_dir'], 
'config'),
            wildcard="Python source (*.py)|*.py",
            style=wx.SAVE
            )
        if dlg.ShowModal() == wx.ID_OK:
            path = dlg.GetPath()
            # Open the file and write into it
            saveFile = file(path, "w")
            # [...] removed code that writes into the file
            saveFile.close()
        dlg.Destroy()

Peter is right though, you may be better off asking questions on wxPython in 
the wxPython mailing list (http://www.wxpython.org/maillist.php).

Dan 




From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Tue Nov 30 18:46:39 2004
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 15:46:39 -0800
Subject: Few things
References: <41a756c6$0$25782$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>	<5c882bb5.0411300140.6ebd9d17@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6945.1101839283.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5c882bb5.0411301546.12cb6445@posting.google.com>

Thank you Josiah Carlson for your answers. If certain parts of my
messages upset you, then you can surely skip those parts.
(Now I am reading a big good manual: "Learning Python, II ed.", so in
the future I hope to write better things about this language.)


>That is simple and clean?<

Well, it's a clean way to express such complexity.
And now I think decorators aren't so fit for such purpose (they
produce less clear pre-post). The pre-posts in the docs seem better to
me.


>Then again, I document and test, and haven't used pre/post conditions
in 5+ years.<

Yep, documentation and doctests (etc) are useful.


>>but I've seen that lots of people have already discussed such
topic).<<

>Discussion of the @ decorator syntax is a moot point.<

I know, I noticed that... Still, only few things are fixed in stone
:-]


>Think of it like an 'example' in the documentation, where the code is
provided for doing both permutations and combinations.<

Ah, now I see.
In my original post of this thread I have given an URL of some
routines written in C because they are about 10 times faster than the
routines that I can write in Python.


>>If you are interested I can give the Python Quickselect code, etc.<<

>No thank you, I have my own.<

I see. I haven't tried to force you to take my routines, but to offer
any interested person a way to cheek my words.


>Ick.  In Python, the language is generally read left to right, in a
similar fashion to english.  The prefix notation of 0<octal> and
0x<hex>, in my opinion, reads better than your
postfix-with-punctuation notation.<

As you say, it's your opinion, and I respect it, but in mathematics I
think you usually put the base at the end of the number, as a small
subscripted number (but I understand your following explanations).


>I'll also mention that two of your examples; afa35a_16 and Fi3pK_64,
are valid python variable names<

Uh, I am sorry... As I feared, I have written a silly thing :-)


>I much prefer just using decimal and offering the proper base
notation afterwards in a comment...<

I agree.

I'll avoid to give hugs,
Bearophile


From mauriceling at acm.org  Sat Nov  6 23:15:46 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 15:15:46 +1100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6032.1099794432.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<mailman.5999.1099743679.5135.python-list@python.org>	<418D61D3.3040904@acm.org>
	<mailman.6032.1099794432.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418DA172.4060504@acm.org>


> Not really. It's an impression you could easily get from several
> books about Python (e.g. O'Reilly's "Learning Python"), which
> make a rather big deal about Python being slow to execute, but
> fast to develop in.

Come to think of it, yes, "Python, The Complete Reference", "Programming 
Python" and "Learning Python" all seems to have that "speed warning" tag 
in the beginning chapters.

If this seems to be the wrong impression, should the authors do something?

> 
> The reality is that it isn't really all *that* slow to execute,
> and later versions have gotten quite a bit faster.
> 
> But it remains really fast to develop in. ;-)

I attest to that, at least for the development speed.

> 
> It's quite possible that Java programmers console themselves
> for all the low-level programming work by thinking the result
> will be faster, without really testing to find out.  Certainly
> Java is going to be faster than Jython (Python running on a
> Java platform).

Jython, as I know, wraps each Python objects in a Java class. For 
example, each variable is a class of it own. I suppose this overhead 
does have speed penalities on it, simply because "every dash of cheese 
is calories, even for low fat cheese."

At the same time, Jython FAQ question 1.6 (how fast is jython?) suggests 
that Jython may run 10 times slower than CPython. Personally, I hadn't 
seen this kind of performance in my programs yet. On the other hand, 
"Jython Essentials" suggest that Jython is about 1.5 times the speed of 
CPython (CPython takes about 75% of the time compared to Jython). To 
this, I've also not seen this fast in Jython codes myself. I will say 
that 2-5 times seems to be a reasonable range.

Cheers
Maurice


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Nov  8 04:09:19 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 08 Nov 2004 10:09:19 +0100
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <tyfekj44shs.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Gabriel Zachmann <zach at cs.uni-bonn.de> writes:

> Is there any generic way to use C++ libraries from within Python.

> Without doing anything else (such as recompiling the library or generating
> wrappers).

Bit of a tall order, don't you think?

What would be so cumbersome about invoking a single program which
requires the location of the library, the location of its headers, and
which gives you a Python module wrapping the library in return ?


From cabria at fta.uva.es  Tue Nov  2 19:43:16 2004
From: cabria at fta.uva.es (Iván Cabria)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 19:43:16 MET
Subject: sh: test: argument expected
Message-ID: <200411021843.iA2IhDgg004694@relay.uva.es>

Hi,

I am a new user of python. I ran 
a python script and I got the 
following message:

sh: test: argument expected

I found that this error came from a 
line in the script:
energy = atoms.GetPotentialEnergy()

I looked for a solution to this 
problem in Internet and I found  
(http://www.experts-exchange.com/Operating_Systems/Unix/Q_20706303.html)
that the problem was that the variable 
was not initialised. I also found 
that the bash shell initialises the variables 
automatically and the Bourne shell (sh) does not.
(http://www.experts-exchange.com/Operating_Systems/Unix/Q_20706303.html)

I suppose that 'sh:' in the error message 
means that the script is using the Bourne shell, 
and hence, I understand the message error.

However, I was using the bash shell in the computer 
I ran the script, not 
the Bourne shell (sh). Hence, I do not 
understand the 'sh:' in the error message.
Could be that python scripts are using by default the 
Bourne shell?

The first line of the python script is:
#!/usr/bin/env python

Thanks in advance.




From max at alcyone.com  Fri Nov 19 16:52:27 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:52:27 -0800
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6614.1100891946.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.6614.1100891946.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <HIOdnUX8Tf-B9gPcRVn-ow@speakeasy.net>

Neal D. Becker wrote:

> Doesn't Python (along with probably every other language ever invented)
> display prior art here?

Hell, _Lisp_ shows prior art.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
   They have rights who dare defend them.
   -- Roger Baldwin


From theller at python.net  Tue Nov 16 12:06:59 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:06:59 +0100
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<boKdncuh1ZBxbgrcRVn-gA@giganews.com>
	<L0Tld.2114$nj.1155@lakeread01>
	<41985663$0$272$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<ZR1md.4916$nj.2331@lakeread01>
	<4198cc5f$0$258$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.6383.1100535480.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4198e036$0$289$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.6388.1100548469.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns95A38B0C3A56FPaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.78>
	<mailman.6427.1100622002.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <y8h1rado.fsf@python.net>

Tim Peters <tim.peters at gmail.com> writes:

> Doing something other than that (for example, maybe popping up a
> README file in Notepad at the end of installation) would require
> changes to distutils, since X3's Windows installer is built by
> distutils.  The point of that isn't that changing distutils makes it
> impossible, the point is that since distutils *today* doesn't have
> such abilities, no distutils-built installer built today (whether X3's
> or any other Python project's) can do such things.

Recent distutils' bdist_wininst command has a post_install_script (or
something like that), which is run *after* the installation.  It can do
anything that Python does, so os.startfile("readme.txt") or
os.startfile("readme.html") would be possible.

I do not know which Python version zope uses, and I'm not sure the
post_install_script stuff has been ported to 2.3.  OTOH, there are
several ways to use 2.4's distutils with earlier Python releases.

(Although I'll doubt it would help at all - experience shows that nearly
nobody reads this stuff)

Thomas


From ch.pingel at web.de  Tue Nov 30 11:12:36 2004
From: ch.pingel at web.de (Christoph Pingel)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:12:36 +0100
Subject: crash when loading a lib on OS X
In-Reply-To: <NUwpd.4361$2e.3083@fe37.usenetserver.com>
References: <mailman.6705.1101157593.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<NUwpd.4361$2e.3083@fe37.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <a06100500bdd24973be77@[80.139.62.248]>

Kevin,

thanks for picking this up. What I did was:

- Start python from the command line
- run "import orange" (orange is in site-packages)

I get a 'bus error' and python crashes.

Orange is a data mining lib for python: 
http://www.ailab.si/orange/forum/index.php
I tried it with their lib, I compiled one from source on my machine, 
and I tried it with an older one another user sent me. All end up 
with this error.

I'm on a tiBook 668 MHz, running OS X 10.3.6

Looking at my logs, I found that other apps (that used to work) 
recently also crashed with EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001). Something in my 
system seems broken. On a OS X forum somewhere I found someone who 
experienced this kind of crashes when trying to run Logic Audio (a 
MIDI/Audio software by Apple) and got it running again after 
re-installing the system. However, the installer fails ('there was a 
problem with the installation process. please retry.') when I try to 
re-install 10.3 with the option to keep my settings. So I'm pretty 
much - stuck.   :-(

best regards,
Christoph



>What were you trying to do? What program were you trying to run? We need
>more than a crash dump to help with this.



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Nov  2 02:44:31 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 23:44:31 -0800
Subject: How to use Data Structure (such as Tree,link list) by Python?
In-Reply-To: <cm7apa$o2i$1@mail.cn99.com>
References: <cm6vco$195$1@netnews.hinet.net> <cm7apa$o2i$1@mail.cn99.com>
Message-ID: <20041101234351.F7C9.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


"ivy" <ivy at doramail.com> wrote:
> 
> Python has built-in list and search tree.
> If you like , you can write it by yourself.

Python does not come with a tree data structure.  It does come with a
'dictionary', which is implemented as a hash table.

 - Josiah



From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Tue Nov 30 09:15:27 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:15:27 +0100
Subject: weird behaviour of "0 in [] is False"
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.30.13.32.55.103783@nospam.logilab.fr>
References: <pan.2004.11.30.12.57.59.582543@nospam.logilab.fr>
	<cohrvl$7eg$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<pan.2004.11.30.13.32.55.103783@nospam.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <761416895.20041130151527@geochemsource.com>

>>>>>> (0 in l) is False
>>> True

This gives me the same exception.

>>> 0 in 1
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: iterable argument required

Did you really try these examples?


Best,

   Laci

mailto:gandalf at geochemsource.com
web:http://designasign.biz




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Nov 20 12:10:47 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 12:10:47 -0500
Subject: please ignore
In-Reply-To: <kHKnd.22741$jf.19368@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
References: <kHKnd.22741$jf.19368@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
Message-ID: <419F7A97.5000303@engcorp.com>

wolfgang haefelinger wrote:
> stupid test - please ignore 

Please do NOT use just any newsgroup for "test" postings.
The only appropriate place to post such experiments is
the newsgroup "misc.test".

Thanks for your cooperation.


From commander at REMOVEME.flying-horses.net  Fri Nov  5 09:40:34 2004
From: commander at REMOVEME.flying-horses.net (Mark A. Munza)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 09:40:34 -0500
Subject: py2exe 0.5.4 released
References: <mailman.5337.1098471964.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4pulo0tjm2se1p10apth81sn4p6a9mh6g8@4ax.com>
	<4qk4wq6k.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <554no051vbnq7os9hs0b1kov9p2a9c60g7@4ax.com>

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 11:22:43 +0100, Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote:

>There seems a problem with the mirrors.  One (the only one?) that works
>is optusnet mirror in australia.
>
>http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/py2exe/py2exe-0.5.4.win32-py2.3.exe?use_mirror=optusnet
>
>Thomas

If you have the py2.3 version could I trouble you to email a copy to me?

--
Best regards,
Mark A. Munza


From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Mon Nov  8 10:45:49 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 07:45:49 -0800
Subject: cherrypy/cheetah vs twisted/nevow
References: <slrncoc0tr.1tc7.charlotte@xs2.xs4all.nl>	<mailman.5766.1099319968.5135.python-list@python.org>	<418818ca$0$19452$626a14ce@news.free.fr>	<mailman.5867.1099489510.5135.python-list@python.org>	<69cbbef2.0411050857.6dfe11bd@posting.google.com>	<mailman.6014.1099765795.5135.python-list@python.org>	<69cbbef2.0411070346.6c6c0eaf@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6085.1099850448.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0411080745.4c6fe9ec@posting.google.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.6085.1099850448.5135.python-list at python.org>...

> I agree that presentation logic (the term that I was missing) is
> different from business logic. But I still think that the more you can
> take the presentation logic *out* of the HTML template, the better.

Absolutely no disagreements there. :)


> I may be wrong, because I never programmed Macs, but I think that in
> the original Apple MVC implementation, you had "resources" (that
> stored the form definitions), and there was code to fill the form with
> data ("presentation logic", right?). 

Correct. Apple refer to the former as View and the latter as
Controller, a careless choice of terms that's bound to cause plenty of
confusion amongst folk who follow the original Smalltalk definition
(e.g. webapp developers). The View - windows, menus, etc. - is
constructed from live GUI widget objects using a visual editor. These
objects are then serialised and stored in the application's resource
fork/bundle to be reconstituted each time the application is run. The
Controller is written in the implementation langage just like any
other code, and is responsible for (1) handling input received by the
View and manipulating the Model in response, and (2) updating the
View's appearance as necessary whenever the Model sends notification
that its state has changed. BTW, you'll also find this pattern in the
Renaissance framework <http://www.gnustep.it/Renaissance/>, except it
stores Views as XML instead of binary data.

Being Mac-based myself, this system became a major influence in the
philosophy and design of HTMLTemplate. I wouldn't be surprised if it
also influenced the designers of similar templating systems (Donovan
Preston, for example, is a Mac user).


> This example shows one
> of the problems with (many) templating systems; one has to write both
> the 'resource' (the HTML Template) and the 'presentation logic' in the
> same file.

I think this approach has its niche, particularly in shrinkwrap
applications aimed at non-programmers where a small, simple, very
low-abstraction macro language with a fixed, limited featureset is
needed to allow a degree of template customisation. Something like
Fogcreek Software's CityDesk application might be a good example.

For professional web application development, however, I think it's a
very poor approach; an expensive exercise in make-work. I came to
programming from design, btw, and the major motivation for writing
HTMLTemplate was to create the sort of templating system that I as
designer could work with: one that didn't stink up my lovely markup
with great gouts of ugly, unfriendly code.

Graphic designers shouldn't be forced to take responsibility for
programming, and programmers should be free to write code unhindered
by alien markup and visual concerns. Templating systems are meant to
make application development easier, and any templating system that
causes designers and programmers to stomp all over each other's toes
seriously fails in that respect. (I think PHP and its kind have a
great deal to answer for in setting the craft of application design
back by years, if not decades. Blech.)


> Now, I'm reallly struggling to catch up with a lot of stuff, and I
> don't know about HTMLTemplate, so I have to take your word for it; you
> say it's good, and it separates the presentation logic from the
> template, and that's what I am looking for. I'll check it now. Thanks
> for the all the info.

Good luck, and feel free to fire away if you've any other thoughts or
queries.

has


From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Nov 22 18:21:08 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:21:08 +0100
Subject: unicode question
In-Reply-To: <Y3hod.23808$jf.11140@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
References: <qkLnd.22919$jf.19362@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<419fc9b9$0$198$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<419ff7cd_3@newspeer2.tds.net> <41A061E1.8050203@v.loewis.de>
	<KH_nd.23139$jf.19287@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<41a0ab62$0$151$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<Y3hod.23808$jf.11140@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
Message-ID: <41A27464.9000509@v.loewis.de>

wolfgang haefelinger wrote:
> Neverthelss, I regard
> 
>  print y.__str__()            ## works
>  print y                           ## fails??
> 
> as a very inconsistent behaviour.

Notice that this also fails

x=str(y)

So it is really the string conversion that fails. Roughly the same
happens with

class X:
   def __str__(self):
     return -1

Here, instances of X also cannot be printed: str() is really supposed
to return a byte string object - not a number, not a unicode object.
As a special exception, __str__ can return a Unicode object, as long
as that result can be converted with the system default encoding into
a byte string object. So we really have

def str(o):
   if isinstance(o, types.StringType): return o
   if isinstance(o, types.UnicodeType): return o.encode(None)
   return str(o.__str__())

This is why the first print succeeds (it calls __str__ directly,
printing the Unicode object afterwards), and the second print fails
(trying to str()-convert its argument, which already fails - it
  didn't get so far as to actually trying to print something).

> Somehow I have the feeling that Python should give up the distinction
> between unicode  and  str  and just have a str type which is internally
> unicode.

Yes, that should happen in P3k. But even then, there will be a
distinction between byte (plain) strings, and character (unicode)
strings.

Regards,
Martin


From xiaohua_sun at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  6 16:52:13 2004
From: xiaohua_sun at yahoo.com (SunX)
Date: 6 Nov 2004 13:52:13 -0800
Subject: supressing '\n' at the end
Message-ID: <337e6cd5.0411061352.62fe8bfc@posting.google.com>

Gurus;
I need some help here.  How do you supress the newline char. at the
end of a file.write(str(aString))?  I know you can add a newline by
simply doing file.write(str(aString) + '\n'), but not
file.write(str(aString) - '\n').
Thanks alot
Howard


From lists at mjtsai.com  Tue Nov 16 15:36:09 2004
From: lists at mjtsai.com (Michael Tsai)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 15:36:09 -0500
Subject: Identifying bundles in MacOS X
In-Reply-To: <2vtsp6F2nlt2cU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <Michael.J.Fromberger-2CA6CC.17042111112004@localhost>
	<2vt7veF2nues7U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<Michael.J.Fromberger-252D87.23144415112004@localhost>
	<2vtsp6F2nlt2cU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <25D5D7B2-380F-11D9-81D1-000D93AFE8B0@mjtsai.com>

On Nov 16, 2004, at 3:41 AM, Brion Vibber wrote:

>     LSItemInfoRecord info;
>     LSCopyItemInfoForURL(url, kLSRequestAllInfo, &info);

I suggest using kLSRequestAllFlags instead of kLSRequestAllInfo, to 
avoid leaking the strings in the LSItemInfoRecord.

--Michael



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 27 02:18:39 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 08:18:39 +0100
Subject: dictionary initialization
References: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<10qfebvb8ln513e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1gnwhl4.b0wm6eglrbshN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:

> Also, it's not that hard to subclass dict to provide the functionality
> that you want.  I expect that googling on the c.l.p archives would turn
> up more than one recipe for a dict with default values.  (There may even
> be such a thing in the Python Cookbook.)  I know I've seen such things
> posted here (though not recently)

There are several such recipes.  The most promising IMHO is Hettinger's
'bag' class (doesn't subclass dict -- uses containment and delegation --
but it deals best with maintaining count-per-item, aka multiset or bag);
it has several bugs as posted, but I've just finished editing it for the
2n edition and it wasn't hard to clear up.  I do hope we'll have a
collections.bag in Python 2.5 one day.


Alex


From Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU  Mon Nov 15 19:35:26 2004
From: Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU (Michael J. Fromberger)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:35:26 -0500
Subject: html parsing?  Or just simple regex'ing?
References: <pan.2004.11.10.01.37.41.879705@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<Michael.J.Fromberger-F600D4.15052711112004@localhost>
	<pan.2004.11.15.16.04.02.657003@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <Michael.J.Fromberger-6CA159.19352615112004@localhost>

In article <pan.2004.11.15.16.04.02.657003 at dcs.nac.uci.edu>,
 Dan Stromberg <strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu> wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:05:27 -0500, Michael J. Fromberger wrote:
> 
> > In article <pan.2004.11.10.01.37.41.879705 at dcs.nac.uci.edu>,
> >  Dan Stromberg <strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu> wrote:
> >> [...]
> >> 
> >> 1) Would I be better off just regex'ing the html I'm getting back?  (I
> >> suppose this depends on the complexity of the html received, eh?)
> >> 
> >> 2) Would I be better off feeding the HTML into an HTML parser, and then
> >> traversing that datastructure (is that really how it works?)?
> > 
> > I recommend you look at BeautifulSoup:
> > 
> >   http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/
> > 
> > It is very forgiving of the typical affronts HTML writers put into their 
> > code.
> 
> BeautifulSoup looks great.
> 
> Regrettably, I'm getting:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "./netreo.py", line 130, in ?
>     soup.feed(html)
>   File "/Dcs/staff/strombrg/netreo/lib/BeautifulSoup.py", line 308, in feed
>     SGMLParser.feed(self, text)
>   File "/Web/lib/python2.3/sgmllib.py", line 94, in feed
>     self.rawdata = self.rawdata + data
> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'list' objects
> 
> ...upon feeding some html into the "feed" method.
> 
> This is with python 2.3.4, on an RHEL 3 system.
> 
> Am I perhaps using a version of python that is too recent?

Are you feeding a string to your parser, or a list?  It wants a string; 
it looks like maybe you're giving it a list.

-M

-- 
Michael J. Fromberger             | Lecturer, Dept. of Computer Science
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~sting/  | Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH, USA


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Sun Nov 14 18:38:20 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:38:20 +0100
Subject: .pyc files...
In-Reply-To: <x74qjsnj1o.fsf@guru.mired.org>
References: <E1CTDp7-00050j-00@galvatron.kickingdragon.com>
	<mailman.6343.1100420001.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<x74qjsnj1o.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <4197ec65$0$21106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Mike Meyer wrote:
> "Simon John" <simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>>or with backticks:  rm -rf `find . -name '*.pyc'`
> Better with $(: rm -rf $(find . -name '*.pyc').

What's the difference? I've never seen (read: used)
the $(...) syntax...

--Irmen


From exarkun at intarweb.us  Fri Nov 12 16:40:13 2004
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (exarkun at intarweb.us)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 21:40:13 GMT
Subject: popen help
In-Reply-To: <cn35rs$55m$1@nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <20041112214013.20649.475785846.divmod.quotient.3869@ohm>

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:19:08 -0800, Jason Zheng <jzheng at jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>exarkun at intarweb.us wrote:
> > On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:29:46 -0800, Jason Zheng <jzheng at jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
> > 
> >>I'm trying to open a subshell to run some csh commands, and I want to 
> >>connect the stdout of the subshell to the main stdout:
> >>
> >>sub = Popen4('csh -f')
> >>sub.tochild.write('source source.me\n')
> >>sub.tochild.write('runthis\n')
> >>sub.tochild.close()
> >>
> >>for x in sub.fromchild.readlines():
> >>   print x
> >>
> > 
> > 
> >>>>import os, time
> >>>>for x in iter(os.popen('for x in `seq 3`; do echo $x; sleep 1; done').readline, ''):
> > 
> > ...     print time.time(), x,
> > ... 
> > 1100290304.55 1
> > 1100290305.56 2
> > 1100290306.56 3
> > 
> >   The difference is that readline() returns one line whereas readlines() returns all of the lines.  Since you cannot know what all the lines are until you have read all of the data, it cannot return until the child process exits.
> > 
> >   Jp
> Jp,
> 
> I doubt that's gonna resolve the problem I have tho. Suppose I send one 
> command which doesn't not have the 'sleep' but prints some output line 
> periodically, wouldn't I have to wait till the end of the execution to 
> see any output?
> 

  The sleep is running in the spawned process to make it more apparent that periodic output appears immediately in the Python process.

  Give it a try in your application.  I think you will find it behaves as you wish.

  Jp


From batista.ric at iol.pt  Thu Nov  4 07:05:37 2004
From: batista.ric at iol.pt (Ricardo Batista)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:05:37 -0000
Subject: dijkstra algorithm by object oriented
Message-ID: <LOEJJKEIICMBHEHNCGNEGEBMCBAA.batista.ric@iol.pt>

I need that someone help me.

I need to program the dijkstra algorithm by object oriented.

I'll send my code.

#!/usr/bin/env python
# -*- encoding: latin -*-

NIL = []
INF = 9999

G = { "Vertices" : [ 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ],
      "Adjacentes" : { 0 : {1: 5, 2: 4},
              1 : {3: 7, 5: 3},
              2 : {4: 7},
              3 : {2: 6},
              4 : {5: 2},
              5 : {6: 3},
              6 : {}
              }
      } # defini??o do grafo

#      0     1    2    3    4    5    6
W = [ [0  , 5  , 4  , INF, INF, INF, INF],
      [INF, 0  , INF, 7  , INF, 3  , INF],
      [INF, INF, 0  , INF, 7  , INF, INF],
      [INF, INF, 6  , 0  , INF, INF, INF],
      [INF, INF, INF, INF, 0  , 2  , INF],
      [INF, INF, INF, INF, INF, 0  , 3  ],
      [INF, INF, INF, INF, INF, INF, 0  ] ]


def adjMatrix( ):
    w = NIL
    for i in G["Vertices"]:
        w.append( [] )
    for i in G["Vertices"]:
        for j in G["Vertices"]:
            if i == j:
                w[i].append( 0 )
            else:
                w[i].append( INF )
    for y in range(len( w )):
        aux1 = G[ "Adjacentes" ][ y ].keys( )
        aux2 = G[ "Adjacentes" ][ y ].values( )
        for i in range( len( w ) ):
            for j in range( len( aux1 ) ):
                if i == aux1[ j ]:
                    w[ y ][ i ] = aux2[ j ]
    return w

d = {}
pi = {}
Q = {}

def initialize_Single_Source( G, s ):
    for v in G[ "Vertices" ]:
        d[ v ] = INF
        pi[ v ] = NIL
    d[ s ] = 0

def relax( u, v, w ):
    if d[ v ] > d[ u ] + w[ u ][ v ]:
        d[ v ] = d[ u ] + w[ u ][ v ]
        pi[ v ] = u

def dijkstra( G, w, s ):
    initialize_Single_Source( G, s )
    S = []
    Q = G[ "Vertices" ]
    while Q != []:
        u = extract_Min( Q )
        S.append( u )
        for v in G[ "Adjacentes" ]:
            relax(u, v, w)
    print "d:",d
    print "pi:",pi

def extract_Min( Q ):
    m = min( Q )
    Q.remove( m )
    return m

dijkstra( G, adjMatrix(), 0 )
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 01-11-2004



From caleb1 at telkomsa.net  Mon Nov 29 23:12:43 2004
From: caleb1 at telkomsa.net (Caleb Hattingh)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 23:12:43 -0500
Subject: PIL 1.1.4 paste PNG's with transparency problem
Message-ID: <opsh9fbhwc1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>

Here's hoping effbot is around :)

I have a really simple situation where I have 2 png images, and open them  
so:

'>>> iconBallImage =  
Image.open('sampleTextures/iconBall.png').resize(DimensionSize)
'>>> iconShieldImage =  
Image.open('sampleTextures/iconShield.png').resize(DimensionSize)

The 2nd image has an alpha channel with transparency.  The first one also  
has an alpha channel, but is fully opaque.  Then I paste the second image  
into the first image:

'>>> iconBallImage.paste(iconShieldImage, (10,10))

Then I save:

'>>> iconBallImage.save('sampleTextures/output.png')

When I view "output.png" in the Gimp, I see that the transparent bits in  
the second image appear as a grey-crosshatching pattern.  There is an  
alpha channel in the new image, but I expected to see that bits of the  
original first image would peer through the transparent bits of the  
original second image.

I fully expect I am doing something wrong here, I just don't know what.

Thanks
Caleb


From timh at zute.net  Wed Nov 10 05:40:04 2004
From: timh at zute.net (Tim Hoffman)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 18:40:04 +0800
Subject: Looking for a mail server with Python backend.
In-Reply-To: <9832c909.0411100225.39ac124f@posting.google.com>
References: <9832c909.0411100225.39ac124f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4191f005@news.highway1.com.au>

HellCat wrote:
> Can anyone here point me to a mail server with a
> Python backend? The Java Apache Mail Enterprise server
> is for Java, is there a comparable mail server for Python?
> I could install JAMES but I prefer to use Python rather
> than Java.
> 
> I am going to use it in a small (less than 500 users)
> enterprise setting so my requirements are not that strict.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
The only thing I know of would be quotient 
http://www.divmod.org/Home/Projects/Quotient/index.html

T


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov  5 00:44:59 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 00:44:59 -0500
Subject: bit operations with python?
References: <36680182.0411041847.397f48fe@posting.google.com>
	<418AF094.200B96C4@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <cmf40i$1f3$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message 
news:418AF094.200B96C4 at alcyone.com...
> Jason wrote:
>
>> Is it possible to do this sort of thing with python? If so, could
>> someone recommend a website with instructions on bit operations?
>> Thanks!
>
> Yes.  The operators in Python are the same as described by the
> challenge.  Bitwise and is &, bitwise or is |, and bitwise xor is ^.

In C, chars *are* ints (of size 1).  For Python, you need to convert the 
bytes to ints with ord(), do the bit manipulations, and convert back to 
bytes with chr().  Make a list of bytes and ''.join(them) at the end.

And/or, you might want to use the array module.

Terry J. Reedy





From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Nov  2 02:16:15 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 23:16:15 -0800
Subject: Matching Control Characters
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E32450F5@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Greg Lindstrom wrote:
> > Use the escape for Control-M: \x0D
> > Reinhold
> 
> Thank-you.  That does the trick!  If you would be so kind, 
> where does one
> look up the escape values for control sequences?  As they 
> say: Build a man a
> fire and he's warm for a day.  Set a man on fire and he's 
> warm for the rest
> of his life.

Look up any old ASCII table. "0D" is hexadecimal for decimal 13. You'll
notice that "M" is the 13th letter in the English alphabet. Lather,
rinse, repeat.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From iketo2 at netscape.net  Tue Nov  2 21:35:14 2004
From: iketo2 at netscape.net (Isaac To)
Date: 03 Nov 2004 10:35:14 +0800
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
	<du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<4187b7a1$0$2383$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<hu0l52-ml1.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	<41880b1a$0$19736$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5848.1099437299.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87vfcnr76l.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Gerhard" == Gerhard Haering <gh at ghaering.de> writes:

    Gerhard> Well, could have happened with a Debian [*] or *BSD,
    Gerhard> etc. update as well, right?

Yes, userss of systems with proper package management shouldn't want
to install anything from CPAN.  On the other hand, there are many
people who are stuck with a braindead distribution or even OS that
doesn't have proper package management, or whose packages are severely
limited.

Regards,
Isaac.


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sun Nov  7 12:32:39 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 12:32:39 -0500
Subject: Stupid Americans! -- Stupid... Stupid... STUPID!!! ___________
 tyjqip
In-Reply-To: <MPG.ed7c87d7033b@NEWS.GRADWELL.NET>
References: <MPG.ed7c87d7033b@NEWS.GRADWELL.NET>
Message-ID: <418E5C37.4040006@cloudthunder.com>

I agree entirely but you really should not send such message to the 
Python mailing-list as it is inappropriate. There are several political 
forums where this would be accepted, read, and responded to. Try Yahoo 
messageboards (I hear that politicians browse these).

Victim_of_American_Stupidity at fyscefy.la.us wrote:

>You blithering idiots! You re-elected that imbecile George Bush as your President.
>He?s a complete moron and so are most of you!
>-
>Don?t you care what the rest of the world thinks of you? Don?t you care what impact
>American foreign policy has on the rest of the planet?  Does Iraq look like a success
>to anyone?  Doesn?t it bother you that he?s alienated every friend you have?
>What were you thinking???
>-
>Prior to this, it was American policy and the American government that was so universally
>hated around the world. Now it's going to be 'Americans' we hate.  More sympathy
>for Bin Laden... More attacks on American institutions...  More isolation.   How blind
>can you dumb rednecks in middle-America be, not to see this?  
>-
>If you get hit again, or your economy goes into a deep depression, the American
>people will be getting exactly what they deserve!
>-
>  
>



From and-google at doxdesk.com  Fri Nov 19 07:04:21 2004
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 04:04:21 -0800
Subject: CGI and logging module
References: <419d0a70$0$221$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0411190404.125cf52d@posting.google.com>

Peter Mott <peter at monicol.co.uk> wrote:

> The same script with the import statement commented out works as expected. 
> Has anyone encountered this?

You'll need to find out what the error is to go further (see other
posts) but as a tip: problems like this are sometimes caused by
insufficient permissions.

If you have root, try 'su'-ing to the Apache user (eg. 'su nobody')
and running the script directly ('./script.py') - does it work?

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Nov  2 14:33:09 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 20:33:09 +0100
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>

> So you would say that in PHP the + operator cannot be viewed as overloaded
> with
> the signature (string, int) -> string?  I don't know PHP, so could you
> maybe you could give an example of why you think this is so?

If you do this:

"a" + 10

you end with 10 - if the string doesn't contain something as number
interpretable, the coercion results in null.

Sure, that behaviour can be seen as overloaded, too. But overloaded
functions usually make some sort of sense, where this technique masks
errors by _always_ trying to interpret values as useful to every operation.

> 
>> The question remains if permanent coercions as php (and afaik perl) do
>> can also be considered weak typing, as you won't end up with an error for
>> more or less anything you do.
> 
> Sorry, I don't know what "permanent coercions" means.  Could you explain?
> "Permanent coercions" makes me expect something like:

I'm no native speaker, so I maybe confused the meaning of permanent. In
german, permanent not only means that things are enduring, but also that
things are done on regular bases: "He permanently changed his cloth." 

What I wanted to say is that php uses coercions or overloaded operators for
nearly everything. Sometimes this is totally silent, sometimes nothing
happens and a warning is issued - which might be configured to be treated
as an actual error, I'm not sure about that.

So while there migth be in fact type information present, it's rarely used -
which I consider as beeing weak.

Does that make more sense?


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From square690410 at yahoo.com.tw  Thu Nov  4 00:16:28 2004
From: square690410 at yahoo.com.tw (Leon)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 13:16:28 +0800
Subject: how to handle command line output(not terminal handle)
References: <cmc6r4$3b8$1@netnews.hinet.net>
	<4189a5eb$0$86464$a1866201@visi.com>
Message-ID: <cmcesc$61j$1@netnews.hinet.net>

thank you......
it is answer I want
sorry , my English isn't good enough
"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> ???g???l???s?D:4189a5eb$0$86464$a1866201 at visi.com...
> On 2004-11-04, Leon <square690410 at yahoo.com.tw> wrote:
>> such as :
>> c:\>python test.py
>> ##Interval 1 seconds the "name" change next
>> friend : name
>>
>> don't have to run clear,the "name" dynamic change content
>> and "friend" is stable
>
> I'm not sure what you're asking.  I'm not even sure if you are
> asking a question.
>
> On the off chance I have have guessed what you're trying to do,
> try running this:
>
> import sys,time
> while True:
>    time.sleep(1)
>    sys.stdout.write("\rTime: %f" % time.time())
>    sys.stdout.flush()
>
>
>
> -- 
> Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  In Newark the
>                                  at               laundromats are open 24
>                               visi.com            hours a day! 




From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Wed Nov  3 09:31:37 2004
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 14:31:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<uef2o0dkckqmnifgpt78n3sg8ai6a1g05c@4ax.com>
	<slrncoem5p.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <cmaq49$q5c$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Gabriel Zachmann <zach at cs.uni-bonn.de> wrote:
>>  You didn't mention C++. Try this ...
>>  
>>     std::string s = "Wow";
>>     s += 3.141592654; // Perfectly valid
>>     s = 3.141592654;  // Also valid

> ah, good example.

> So, would it be valid to say:
> the more coercion (or automatic conversion) rules a language has, the
> weaker the typing?

If that's what your definition of weak typing is.  The OP seemed to be
asking about re-interpreting the representation of a value of one type
as a different type.


From grante at visi.com  Wed Nov  3 22:45:47 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 04 Nov 2004 03:45:47 GMT
Subject: how to handle command line output(not terminal handle)
References: <cmc6r4$3b8$1@netnews.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <4189a5eb$0$86464$a1866201@visi.com>

On 2004-11-04, Leon <square690410 at yahoo.com.tw> wrote:
> such as :
> c:\>python test.py
> ##Interval 1 seconds the "name" change next
> friend : name
>
> don't have to run clear,the "name" dynamic change content
> and "friend" is stable 

I'm not sure what you're asking.  I'm not even sure if you are
asking a question.  

On the off chance I have have guessed what you're trying to do,
try running this:

import sys,time
while True:
    time.sleep(1)
    sys.stdout.write("\rTime: %f" % time.time())
    sys.stdout.flush()



-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  In Newark the
                                  at               laundromats are open 24
                               visi.com            hours a day!


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Nov 21 15:17:17 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:17:17 -0500
Subject: CGI email script
In-Reply-To: <db4aff64.0411201402.66600328@posting.google.com>
References: <db4aff64.0411201402.66600328@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <XK6od.1760$QR.397@lakeread01>

bojanraic at gmail.com wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> I recently started playing with Python CGI, and I was happy that my
> basic input-name--print-hello-name CGI form example worked, so I
> thought I should advance to somew\hat more complicated scripts.
> 
> I'm trying to write a basic Python email CGI script to send email
> through HTML email form.
> I've seen a lot of examples out there, but nothing I tried so far
> seemed to work. So I would like to know what I am doing wrong.
> 
> Here's the HTML  form file:
> 
> <html>
> 
> <head>
> <title>Email Form</title>
> </head>
> 
> <body>
> 
> <FORM METHOD="POST" ACTION="sendMail.cgi">
>       <INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME="key" VALUE="process">
>       Your name:<BR>
>       <INPUT TYPE=TEXT NAME="name" size=60>
>       <BR>
>       Email:<BR>
>       <INPUT TYPE=TEXT NAME="email" size=60>
>       <BR>
>   <P>
>       Comments:<BR>
>       <TEXTAREA NAME="comment" ROWS=8 COLS=60>
>       </TEXTAREA>
>       <P>     
>         <INPUT TYPE="SUBMIT" VALUE="Send">
>     </FORM>
> 
> </body>
> 
> </html>
> 
> Here's the CGI script:
> 
> #!/usr/bin/python
> 
> import cgitb
> cgitb.enable()
> import cgi
> import smtplib
> 
> print "Content-type: text/html\n"
> 
It's conventional, though I believe strictly unnecessary, to include a 
carriage return in the terminator sequence "Content ... \r\n". Of course 
your Python system will take platform specific action with the line 
ending *it* inserts, of course :-)

> def main():
>     form = cgi.FieldStorage()
>     if form.has_key("name") and form["name"].value != "":
>         fromaddress = form["email"].value
>         toaddress = my at email.com

Well, this is certainly an error, because "toaddress" should be a list 
of addresses (allowing you to send the same message to more than one 
person - usually you'd include everyone in the "From:", "Cc:" and "Bcc:" 
headers). I'm presuming you just forgot the quotes when you erased your 
own email address. What you probably want here is

         toaddress = ["my at email.invalid"]

or whatever. The "invalid" top-level domain is always the best one to 
use when you want to be sure you aren't using a real address.

>         message = form["comment"].value
> 
here you really do need to be including some SMTP headers in your mail, 
though a lot of mailers will be quite forgiving about this. I'd probably 
use something like

         message = """\
From: %s
To: %s
Subject: A message from your web site

%s
""" % (fromaddress, toaadress[0], form["comment"].value

>     server = smtplib.SMTP('localhost')
>     server.set_debuglevel(1)
>     server.sendmail(fromaddress, toaddress, message)
>     server.quit()
> 
>     print "<html><head><title>Sent</title></head>"
>     print "<body><h1 align=center>",
>     print "<p>Your message has been sent!</body>"
>     print "</html>"
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__': main()
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, I change the email address to my own.
> I keep getting the premature end of script headers error.
> 
> Several questions:
> 
> 1. server = smtplib.SMTP('localhost') should return the name of the
> server, right? I don't need to explicitly name it, or do I?

Most systems will resolve localhosts to 127.0.0.1, so as long as your 
web server runs an SMTp server as well this will work.

> 2. cgitb.enable() - shouldn't that give me a trace back if something
> goes wrong so I can debug the code? It doesn't seem to give me
> anything...

cgitb.enable() does try to produce output, but in this case you will 
probably only be able to see it in your server's error log. That's a 
sign that the error's occurring very early on int he sequence, which is 
puzzling. Of course, if your web server's Python is old enough not to 
*implement* cgitb then this would account for the error you are actually 
seeing.

> 3. What am I doing wrong here? How can I fix the errors and make it
> work?
> 
Well, there are a few things to try here.

> Please understand that I have read all the previous questions on this
> matter, and when I tried to follow the instructions, none of them
> seemed to work for me.
> 
> Any help will be greatly appreciated.

done-my-best-ly y'rs  - steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From wynand at realtimerodeo.net  Fri Nov 26 09:23:15 2004
From: wynand at realtimerodeo.net (Wynand Winterbach)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 06:23:15 -0800
Subject: Use Python library from C++
References: <89cc6e1f.0411241939.61a19596@posting.google.com>
	<co3qur$qdl$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <7b396160.0411260623.699f8ea6@posting.google.com>

Robert Kern <rkern at ucsd.edu> wrote in message news:<co3qur$qdl$1 at news1.ucsd.edu>...
> Chang LI wrote:
> > I want to use the Python Libray from my C++ program.
> > The Python Libray is no GUI. How can I mix C++ and 
> > Python? 
... (snip)
> 
> Try Elmer.
> http://elmer.sf.net

There is also a library called PyCXX at http://cxx.sourceforge.net/.
It's main purpose is to provide a convenient C++ interface to the
Python C API. For example, it takes care of reference counting etc.
Although it's purpose is to write C++ extensions for Python, it should
be fairly easy to use it in reverse. It's a nice lib either way.


From foo at bar.com  Tue Nov  9 23:08:44 2004
From: foo at bar.com (Steve Menard)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 23:08:44 -0500
Subject: property for class objects
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6198.1100056948.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6198.1100056948.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <zvgkd.40384$ak3.1503768@wagner.videotron.net>

Jp Calderone wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 21:54:50 -0500, Steve Menard <foo at bar.com> wrote:
> 
>>As par of JPype, I find that I have to brifge Java static members into 
>>class attributes.
>>
>>I am using a metaclass to dynamically create a Python class for every 
>>Java type encountered. Instance variables were handled by adding a 
>>property(get, set) to the class's dictionary.
>>
>>Now static members are giving me a headache. I cannot use "property" for 
>>them, because properties are for instances only.
>>
>>What I am currently doing is adding a __getattr__ and a __setattr__ 
>>methods to the metaclass, which is called when a class attribute is 
>>requested but not found in the class' dict.
>>
>>This works fine exact it does not walk the inheritance tree to find 
>>static members defined in base classes. I am currently adding up all the 
>>names in every class. This "works", however it is misleading when you do 
>>a dir() of the class.
>>
>>Does anyone have an idea how to implement "classproperty" ?
> 
> 
>   How about this?
> 
>     exarkun at boson:~$ python
>     Python 2.3.4 (#2, Sep 24 2004, 08:39:09) 
>     [GCC 3.3.4 (Debian 1:3.3.4-12)] on linux2
>     Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>     >>> class x(type):
>     ...     def get_y(self):
>     ...             return 'y on', self
>     ...     def set_y(self, value):
>     ...             print 'y on', self, 'is now', value
>     ...     y = property(get_y, set_y)
>     ... 
>     >>> class z(object):
>     ...         __metaclass__ = x
>     ... 
>     >>> z.y
>     ('y on', <class '__main__.z'>)
>     >>> z.y = 'foo'
>     y on <class '__main__.z'> is now foo
>     >>> 
> 
>   If not, how is what you are looking for different?
> 
>   Jp

I had thought about this solution. However, that would mean I would have 
to define a Python metaclass (to hold the class properties) for each 
Java class uses, as well as the Python class I already generate. I am 
afraid this would en up being very heavy.

I am not discarding this solution completely. It migth be that defining 
those 2 (class and metaclass) isnt too heavy. Someone needs to clue me 
in on this or I have to do some benchmarking myself.

Hopefully, tehre is a cleaner way to solve this.

Steve


From tismer at stackless.com  Wed Nov 24 12:25:49 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:25:49 +0200
Subject: Paid Research Project on Stackless 3.1
In-Reply-To: <20041025200909.GB28024@kostyrka.org>
References: <mailman.5383.1098608837.5135.python-list@python.org>	<8omdnbg6zNc00uHcRVn-iA@giganews.com>
	<20041025200909.GB28024@kostyrka.org>
Message-ID: <41A4C41D.9090106@stackless.com>

Andreas Kostyrka wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 24, 2004 at 08:58:27PM -0400, Istvan Albert wrote:
> 
>>Christian Tismer wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I would love to publish Stackless 3.1, of course.
>>>Also I know that there is some inherent bug in it.
>>
>>This is not a "Paid Research Project" this is
>>called "Bug Bounty".
> 
> For "paid work" it's not even that well paid ;)

Exactly.

I need *one* person who is able to do it in a way that
does not cost him too much time and me too much money.

sorry about my filter techniques -- chris


p.s.: I was again very very busy, but will now get in contact
with the positive responders :-)

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
tismerysoft GmbH             :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9A     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776  fax +49 30 80 90 57 05
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Nov 30 08:18:30 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:18:30 +0100
Subject: weird behaviour of "0 in [] is False"
References: <pan.2004.11.30.12.57.59.582543@nospam.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <cohrvl$7eg$01$1@news.t-online.com>

>>>> l = []
>>>> 0 in (l is False)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: iterable argument required

that should be clear - 0 in False can't work.

>>>> (0 in l) is False
> True
>>>> 0 in l is False
> False

It seems to stem from a behaviour python exhibits in expressions like this:

3 > 2  > 1

This yields True, while

(3 > 2 ) > 1

yields false. Chaining of operators gets translated like this:

3 > 2 and 2 > 1

Look in section 5.9 of the language reference.

Then your expression gets translated to:

0 in l and l is False

which yields False of course.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From rune.hansen at scanmine.com  Mon Nov 15 02:52:31 2004
From: rune.hansen at scanmine.com (roderik)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 08:52:31 +0100
Subject: idle on mac os 10.3.5
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6330.1100371619.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6330.1100371619.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4fZld.7865$rh1.197730@news2.e.nsc.no>

Fran?ois Granger wrote:
> Le 13/11/04 19:25, ? Baza ? <baza at themauvezone.fsnet.co.uk> a ?crit :
> 
> 
>>>You may, or may not - can't remember, have to install TclTkAqua-8.4.7
>>>from http://tcltkaqua.sourceforge.net/
>>
>>It seems there is a, 'show stopper' bug in this that prevents idle from
>>running, it's mentioned on their site. So I'm stuck with using a texted
>>editor and >>> for the moment it seems.
> 
> 
> I installed TclTkAqua-8.4.7 today. IDLE run for 5/10 minutes then crashed.
> 
Hmm..yes, just noticed that the IDLE command shell is somewhat 
dysfunctional on OS X(it fails to  >>> print "hello")... Never found it 
very useful since it doesn't include readline support. Anyway, the 
editor/debugger/browser works without a hitch on my OSX 10.3.6 system. 
What kind of trace back do you get when it crashes?

regards
/rune


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Nov 19 13:51:27 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:51:27 -0600
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>


My guess is Microsoft hopes to discourage Visual Basic knock-offs.  Claim 2
clearly seems to restrict the scope to BASIC.

Seems pretty slimy.

Skip


From timr at probo.com  Thu Nov 11 01:12:42 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:12:42 -0800
Subject: mod_python not working (showing source code)
References: <1100137677.4bQNs8XNANf1D1RB/G9RbQ@teranews>
Message-ID: <7k06p0h380r8ogig5aent9dbo2sbeb7q5m@4ax.com>

"Anthony Papillion II" <papillion at gmail.com> wrote:

>Hello Everyone,
>
>I have downloaded and installed mod_python and it doesn't seem to be
>working. I am hoping someone can give me some pointers as to what I am doing
>wrong. Here are the steps I've followed so far:
>
>1. Installed mod_python from the rpm file.
>2. Added LoadModule and AddModule directives to the httpd.conf file
>
>Now, I have a file called mod_test.py that contains the following code:
>
>#!/usr/bin/python
>
>print "Test of mod_python"
>
>When I call the file up in the browser, I simply see the python source. What
>am I doing wrong?

What does your .htaccess look like?  Did you do an AddHandler and
SetHandler so Apache knows what to do with your .py files, and set a
PythonHandler do mod_python knows what to do?

Did you actually read the mod_python documentation?
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From firemoth at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 18:43:05 2004
From: firemoth at gmail.com (Timothy Fitz)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 18:43:05 -0500
Subject: Exponential Notation and integers
Message-ID: <972ec5bd041118154319984b91@mail.gmail.com>

Why are all numberical literals in exponential notation floats? To me
it is counter-intuitive for 1e3 to behave so fundamentally different
from 1000.

Timothy Fitz


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Nov 14 13:49:31 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:49:31 +0100
Subject: Encoding confusion, please help
In-Reply-To: <41978cdd$0$799$39db0f71@news.song.fi>
References: <41978cdd$0$799$39db0f71@news.song.fi>
Message-ID: <4197a8bb$0$151$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Pekka Niiranen wrote:
>  >>> sys.getdefaultencoding()
> 'iso-8859-1'

This is already troublesome; it means somebody (perhaps you)
has tampered with your Python installation. The default system
encoding is ascii, and it should not be changed unless
absolutely necessary.

> When should I use locale.getpreferredencoding() and when
> sys.getdefaultencoding()?

There should never be a need to probe sys.getdefaultencoding(),
as it should always be ascii.

locale.getpreferredencoding() should be used when converting
Unicode strings to and from byte strings to be stored on the local
system (e.g. in files). Notice that this may or may not be adequate
also when printing data to the terminal. Specifically, on Windows,
the terminal often uses yet another encoding.

> Why two different encodings 'cp1252' and 'iso-8859-1' are provided
> for my Windows 2000 system?

Python provides many more encodings, including UTF-8, KOI-8R,
ISO-8859-2, cp1250, and so on. Having many codecs available in
the library is a good thing, because different applications have
different needs.

I somehow feel this doesn't answer your question, but then, I don't
fully understand the question.

Regards,
Martin


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Fri Nov 12 08:54:23 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:54:23 -0500
Subject: escape sequences in list comprehensions
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0411120517.488d16ca@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0411120517.488d16ca@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4194C08F.5050303@bellsouth.net>

kartik wrote:

>Escape sequences don't seem to work in strings within list comprehensions:
>  
>
>>>>print ['%s\n' %i for i in [1,2,3]]
>>>>        
>>>>
>['1\n', '2\n', '3\n']
>
>What am I missing?
>
>Thank you.
>  
>
What are you expecting it to do?  It looks like it's working fine to 
me.  It's giving you your list back, but converting each element to a 
string, the last "piece" of which is a "\n".  What were you expecting 
differently from that?

Jeremy Jones
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From i+usenetd1ca612b at gambit.com.ru  Tue Nov 16 06:21:06 2004
From: i+usenetd1ca612b at gambit.com.ru (Igorx Ivanov)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 14:21:06 +0300
Subject: Pictograms and Python
References: <81a41dd.0411160125.1aa4c7c1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrncpjnko.nv.i+usenet@gambit.com.ru>

Lad <export at hope.cz> wrote:
> Did anyone try to convert a Pictogram ( = a picture with text) to text?

	Do you mean something like "anytopnm <Pictogram-file> |
	pnmscalefixed -width ${COLUMNS} | ppmtopgm | pgmtopbm | pbmtoascii"?

-- 
I acted to show my love for Jodie Foster.
		-- John Hinckley


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Nov 18 14:16:31 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 11:16:31 -0800
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
 number of output arguments)
In-Reply-To: <419bbf2a.319309032@news.oz.net>
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de> <419bbf2a.319309032@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <10ppt1bt5q38d0d@corp.supernews.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

>Maybe keyword unpacking could spell that with a '**' assignment target,
>e.g.,
>
>    ** = foo()  # update local bindings with all legal-name bindings in returned dict
>  
>

I would *not* like to see this.  ISTM that, when reading a function, I 
should be able to see where every name in that function came from.  
Having global values appear from outside of the function is bad enough; 
introducing a new way to magically create variables whose names I can't 
see would be (IMO) very, very bad.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From ods at strana.ru  Thu Nov 18 13:14:54 2004
From: ods at strana.ru (Denis S. Otkidach)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:14:54 +0300
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
 number of output arguments)
In-Reply-To: <4b39d922.0411181005.62ca5d67@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<4b39d922.0411181005.62ca5d67@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041118211454.5e868aa5.ods@strana.ru>

On 18 Nov 2004 10:05:23 -0800
finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse) wrote:

> Not quite the syntax you want, but better imho since it doesn't
> involve name redundancy:
> 
> locals().update( {'a': 1, 'b': 2, 'c': 3} )

Are you sure it will work with locals?

>>> def f(d):
...     locals().update(d)
...     print a
... 
>>> f({'a': 1})
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in f
NameError: global name 'a' is not defined

Or even:

>>> def f(d):
...     a = 1
...     locals().update(d)
...     print a
... 
>>> f({'a': 2})
1

-- 
Denis S. Otkidach
http://www.python.ru/      [ru]


From PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com  Tue Nov  2 09:38:25 2004
From: PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com (Marco Aschwanden)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 15:38:25 +0100
Subject: Test a Python function within Python without importing
Message-ID: <opsgudmbd635jo5o@news.gmane.org>

Hi

I have a window that allows the user to write a python function (scite). 
Let's say the function always has 1 input param and 1 output value. eg.:

<code>
def modify_string(stuff_to_modify):
   modified_string = 'Modified: %s' % stuff_to_modify
   return modified_string
<code>

By compiling this code I can easily check whether the "string" is valid 
python code:

try:
   com = compile(code, '<string>','exec')
except Exception, msg:
   # Show msg to user if exeption occurred
   pass

If compilation and other checks went fine, I would like to offer the user 
a dialog that allows him to enter a value (input param) which is handed
to the function and the output value is shown (in label).

I could save the compiled function and import/reload it for each test 
cycle... well for various reasons I don't want that.

I thought of abusing eval... cause I could extend the entered python 
function as follows:

<code>
def modify_string(stuff_to_modify):
   modified_string = 'Modified: %s' % stuff_to_modify
   return modified_string

# Calling the function... eval could return the value...
modify_string('hallo')
</code>

But eval - as expected - chokes already on the def-statement.

How could easily test this function without having to import/reload it?

Hope the problem is clear...
Regards,
Marco



From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 14 09:09:46 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 09:09:46 -0500
Subject: .pyc files...
In-Reply-To: <419726bf$0$521$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <mailman.6344.1100420809.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<419726bf$0$521$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <41976617_1@newspeer2.tds.net>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> See
> 
> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0304.html

I would like this feature. Cleaning up afterwards is not such a good 
option for a project in progress; the .pyc files will just be re-created 
on the next run.

But PEP 304 seems to be abandoned, if I read the record correctly. It 
has an incomplete patch that is almost two years old and no activity 
since then. PEP 320 (Python 2.4 Release Schedule) says

     - PEP 304 (Controlling Generation of Bytecode Files by Montanaro)
       seems to have lost steam.

The biggest stumbling block seems to be the lack of a patch for Windows, 
though the *nix is also incomplete.

Kent


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Mon Nov  1 12:08:47 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 12:08:47 -0500
Subject: fastest way for humongous regexp search?
In-Reply-To: <cm5lv3$7p4$1@license1.unx.sas.com>
References: <cm5lv3$7p4$1@license1.unx.sas.com>
Message-ID: <sZqdnc_PlckB8BvcRVn-pw@giganews.com>

Tim Arnold wrote:

> I've got a list of 1000 common misspellings, and I'd like to check a set of
> text files for those misspellings.

A much simpler way would be to just store these misspellings as a dictionary
(or set), read and split each line into words, then check whether each
of words is in the set.

Istvan


From someone at microsoft.com  Sat Nov 27 22:28:04 2004
From: someone at microsoft.com (Jive)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 03:28:04 GMT
Subject: futue feature division not found  (embedded)
References: <Ix7qd.5229833$ic1.487950@news.easynews.com>
	<41a925d5.1197560430@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <8Bbqd.5245602$ic1.489539@news.easynews.com>


"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message > HTH. On to the next bug ;-)

The proper expression is, "On to the *last* bug." :-)

I worked around it.  I'm building an argv by hand and using Py_main.  That's
probably a better way to crank it up anyhow.

Jive




From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov  1 06:49:39 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 12:49:39 +0100
Subject: fcntl and FCNTL
References: <74b5ee0a.0410291907.3d73764f@posting.google.com>
	<w4mdncnRG8DIDh7cRVn-gA@powergate.ca>
	<74b5ee0a.0410301816.76020db1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2ummr6F2cba3iU1@uni-berlin.de>

> Does this mean that in Windows I can't use fcntl module.
> If yes, what functions do you suggest to use instead of fcntl funtions.
> I could see the funtions in posixfile are using fcntl functions.
> Do you have any alternative for posixfile module?

I don't use windows, so I can't help here - but what might give the
windows-gurus out there a hint how to help you would be to say what you
actually want to achieve - then they might know how to do that with
windows.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Fri Nov 19 10:43:10 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:43:10 -0200
Subject: Class Encapsulation Errors in Python 2.3.3
In-Reply-To: <Xns95A66CF5C9E26duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
References: <47f7cc78.0411182007.1b77c2b1@posting.google.com>
	<10pqtqbjncp2nfb@corp.supernews.com>
	<Xns95A66CF5C9E26duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <864d370904111907431909378e@mail.gmail.com>

On 19 Nov 2004 10:44:56 GMT, Duncan Booth <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Jeff Shannon wrote:
> 
> > The problem here is that default values in functions/methods are
> > evaluated at *compile* time.
> 
> Actually, no. The default values in functions/methods are evaluated when
> the def statement is *executed* not when anything is compiled. If you
> execute the def multiple times the default values are recalculated each
> time.

Be careful :-) default values are calculated when the def statement is
executed.... which is not the same as to say that they are calculated
every time the function is called.

To explain it better. In a conventional Python program, the def
statement is executed only once, when a module is loaded, for example.
In this case, default values are stored as attributes of the function
object. In this case, the value of the default never changes.

*If* for some reason your code runs over the def statement multiple
times, *then* a new function object will be created with new default
values. For example, this can happen if you force-reload a module, or
def the function inside a for loop (weird but it works):

for i in (1,2,3):
    def print_i(x=i):
         print x,i

>>> print_i()
3 3
>>> i = 0
>>> print_i()
3 0

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From pjn at linnestaden.com  Mon Nov  1 13:16:49 2004
From: pjn at linnestaden.com (Jesper)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 19:16:49 +0100
Subject: both text and graphical user interface library
Message-ID: <073a01c4c03e$f4bbf300$106410ac@vanhalen>

I know that user interface library questions come up on this list every now
and then. I've lurked here for a while and also searched google for anything
that would fit my needs but haven't found anything.

What I would like is a python library that exposes a simple API for creating
a mostly dialog-based user interface. This library should work both on text
and graphical terminals and be portable.
The closest matches that I've found are:
anygui: http://anygui.sourceforge.net/
easygui: http://www.ferg.org/easygui/

anygui works with curses according to the homepage. Unfortunately
development seem to have stalled, the text-mode seem to be a "last resort"
and not a primary focus, and it uses an event based model which I'd prefer
not to use.

easygui has nice "linear" api, but seem to not support text mode at all.

Does anyone know of a library that would fit my needs? Or are the prefered
characteristics stupid for some reason?
What are everyone else using that want to support text mode? A pure
text-mode implementation looks a little odd in a graphical environment like
windows.

Thanks,
Jesper




From lashkariNO at SPAMworldviz.com  Wed Nov 10 15:00:09 2004
From: lashkariNO at SPAMworldviz.com (Farshid Lashkari)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:00:09 GMT
Subject: Problem flushing stderr in embedded python
References: <VoRjd.33$iY3.7@trnddc01>
	<aa1af1ad.0411082048.6432d122@posting.google.com>
	<DW7kd.2069$z_4.652@trnddc07> <1100065836.697971@yasure>
Message-ID: <drukd.642$ho6.442@trnddc05>

Here's the code for PySys_GetObject. It's getting the object from the sys
dictionary, so it should be the correct object.

PyObject *
PySys_GetObject(char *name)
{
    PyThreadState *tstate = PyThreadState_Get();
    PyObject *sd = tstate->interp->sysdict;
    if (sd == NULL)
        return NULL;
    return PyDict_GetItemString(sd, name);
}

I've tried calling fflush on stderr, but that doesn't work either.

I've encountered another weird problem also. If my python code causes an
error and I don't flush stderr, then I get a runtime error when my app
exits. It also prints out:

Exception exceptions.NameError: "global name 'y' is not defined" in 'garbage
collection' ignored
Fatal Python error: unexpected exception during garbage collection.

Does this give anybody a clue as to what's happening?

"Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> wrote in message
news:1100065836.697971 at yasure...
> Quoth "Farshid Lashkari" <lashkariNO at SPAMworldviz.com>:
> | I don't understand it from a C perspective either. I poked around the
source
> | code for python and found where it is flushing the file. It is simply
> | calling fflush on the FILE handle. Also, I'm somewhat bewildered as to
why
> | running the string "sys.stderr.flush()" is different than directly
calling
> | the flush method of the stderr object. Oh well, I guess some things are
> | better left unknown.
>
> It could be different if the stderr object - i.e.,
PySys_GetObject("stderr") -
> is actually not sys.stderr.  I don't understand why, but am not familiar
> with PySys_*, so I offer that as a hypothesis you might be able to test.
> By the way, since as you observed it's only calling fflush(), I think you
> could leave Python out of it altogether and do this with just
>    fflush(stdout);
>    fflush(stderr);
>
> Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu




From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Thu Nov  4 15:12:38 2004
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:12:38 -0600
Subject: pep 336:  Make None Callable
In-Reply-To: <1gmq3sg.13vqunmdm9pcbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.5897.1099544898.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmq3sg.13vqunmdm9pcbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200411041412.38141.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Thursday 04 November 2004 04:11 am, Alex Martelli wrote:
> Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
>    ...
> > > It would be more sensible to promote the addition to builtins of a 
> > > predefined null function -- one somewhat equivalent to 0, [], and {}.
> > 
> > Maybe, but I think it's worth asking -- what use is the traceback from
> > the None object when it is called?  Does it help in QA of code?  Is
> 
> Yes: it wards against the reasonably common bug of forgetting a return
> statement, for example --
> 
> def make_adder(addend):
>     def adder(augend): return addend + augend
> 
> the programmer forgot a 'return adder' as the last line -- oops, no big
> deal, it will be caught extremely soon, thanks to None not being
> callable.

> "Null Object" is a great Design Pattern (not in the Gof4 book, but still
> a classic, from a reasonably early PLOP), and I would love it if Python
> embodied it, as it embodies so many other useful ones.  But we should
> not overload None to play the role of Null, I think.  Rather, Null
> should be another object, either built-in or in some module. 
[...]

Yeah, you're probably right.  I kind of liked the lambda idiom that was
suggested up-thread (by Roman Suzi), though it's not clear to me that
replacing "lambda:" with ":" is that important:

Setting null functions to lambda seems useful.

I just noticed though, that:

noop = lambda *a, **kw: None

is illegal (apparently lambda doesn't support argument indirection (or
whatever that "*" syntax is properly called)).  Never tried it before.

Still, most of the time when you want to follow this pattern, you
probably want a consistent calling profile, and if you do use a
function to generate these functions, you can easily:

   return lambda a,b, spam=None: None

for example, following the particular profile you need.

Maybe there should be a noop built-in, though?

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From tim.peters at gmail.com  Mon Nov 29 22:12:26 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 22:12:26 -0500
Subject: date diff calc
In-Reply-To: <16811.29264.547058.669652@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <K_-dnRIyHJPs_DbcRVn-jg@is.co.za>
	<16811.29264.547058.669652@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <1f7befae041129191255bacf7e@mail.gmail.com>

[Skip Montanaro]
> ...
> The datetime.date object already exposes a strftime method for
> generating a formatted string output and will create date objects
> from both time.time() output (fromtimestamp) and "proleptic
> Gregorian ordinal"s (fromordinal).  Looking at the datetime module
> docs, it's not at all obvious to me that the latter would be used all
> that often.

Then the part of the docs you're overlooking is the part explaining
that "Calendrical Calculations" bases all its calendar conversions on
proleptic Gregorian ordinals.  They're for people who want something
other than the Gregorian calendar, and want it enough to write some
code.

> I think inputs from strings would be much more common.

Me too, although it's a bottomless pit.

guess-6-intended-meanings-for-1/2/3-before-breakfast-ly y'rs


From claird at lairds.us  Mon Nov 22 17:08:08 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:08:08 GMT
Subject: Identifying exceptions that can be raised
References: <cVdnd.7986$tS4.4873@trndny09> <6Rknd.6671$%M4.4203@trndny08>
	<cnmcek$rju$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<JQNnd.2125$hJ6.1416@trndny01>
Message-ID: <tf3a72-5f.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <JQNnd.2125$hJ6.1416 at trndny01>, Dan  <bounces at foo.org> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>But the thought occured to me that if I _did_ want to handle exceptions, 
>I would have no idea what the possibilities even were.
			.
			.
			.
I'm sympathetic.  It bothers me no end when working 
with C and Java that documenters are as relaxed as
I've found them to be in failing to document error
conditions.

Peter and the others correctly express the Python
approach, though.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  8 07:01:40 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 13:01:40 +0100
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<tyfekj44shs.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxizh.3rip5na92f0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyfacts4of3.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <1gmxn7d.19o8q51jt2gu5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
   ...
> > > > Is there any generic way to use C++ libraries from within Python.
> > > 
> > > > Without doing anything else (such as recompiling the library or
> > > > generating wrappers).
> > > 
> > > Bit of a tall order, don't you think?
> > 
> > Well, ctypes does that for C libraries (as long as they're
> > DLL/so/dynlib/...), it's not immediately obvious that using C++
> > libraries is an order of magnitude harder (though probably true).
> 
> Maybe not _immediately_ obvious, but obvious after a few minutes
> thought :-)

To somebody with a good grasp of the current state of C++ technology,
maybe.  Somebody who might just like to using existing dynlib/&c which
happen to be oriented to C++ rather than C might quite reasonably not
find the distinction obvious, IMHO.

Indeed, I suspect ctypes could be extended to do some of the requested
task, if one focused on a single, specific C++ compiler.


> > > What would be so cumbersome about invoking a single program which
> > > requires the location of the library, the location of its headers, and
> > > which gives you a Python module wrapping the library in return ?
> > 
> > Without a C/C++ compiler around, you mean?  Most Python users these days
> > don't have one (as they use Python on Windows)...
> 
> Good point. I hadn't though of this one. In my environment the users
> are expected to have at least one C++ compiler, and are even expected
> to use it on a regular basis.

Ah, yes, a definitely atypical environment.  Anyway, if my guess is
correct that the demand for such a 'c++types' is really burning only on
Windows, then maybe it could be made for MS VC++7.1 specifically.  But,
it IS just a guess.  ctypes does require some understanding of some C
concepts, for example, even though it does not require access to a C
compiler; it also requires specific coding to a certain dynlib's
interfaces.  I think Boost Python, if all needed tools were present,
might be able to do a more automatic job of producing the wrapper, maybe
requiring from the Python-level user even less C++ knowledge than that
hypothetical c++types might...


Alex


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Nov  5 09:26:36 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 15:26:36 +0100
Subject: PyXml and XPath implementation
References: <a4686a1f.0411050558.1f844225@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cmg2iq$j92$00$2@news.t-online.com>

Alain wrote:

> Hi !
> 
> I'm looking for an XPath implementation (even partial) on PyXML.
> I'm using libxml2 on Windows XP.
> It works well but I have to port my application on RISCOS (OS on ARM
> processor) where only PyXML is ported.

Maybe 4suite works for you? Google it, I don't have the url handy.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From danperl at rogers.com  Wed Nov  3 11:24:33 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 11:24:33 -0500
Subject: New configuration module released
References: <2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4d2dnXe5XY7bmxTcRVn-rw@rogers.com>

Vinay,

I'm posting some opinions I have on your module and on the topic in general 
in this newsgroup, instead of using the links you have on your web page 
(your email and a wiki) because I would like to see a wider discussion.

My experience with python in general and configuration in python in 
particular is rather short (a few months), but I have been working on a 
personal, open-source project during this time and configuration was one of 
the biggest issues I had.  I did look at configParser early on, but I 
decided it was not giving me enough.  At the top level, I had only a few 
values (4 at present, but even less in the beginning) and these values were 
however fairly complex.  I ended up implementing the configuration mechanism 
as plain python modules which are imported by my application.  This created 
a mechanism that was relatively difficult to understand and that needed 
users to actually code in python for configuration.  I think the problem of 
configuration in my project is much smaller now, because I also added a GUI 
tool that allows configuration to be done through a graphical interface.

Enough about my project, but I meant to give a context for what I am about 
to discuss next.

I looked only at the documentation for your module and I haven't actually 
tried it.  Please forgive me if I am missing anything.  With this 
information though, I don't see enough reasons to replace my own custom-made 
configuration mechanism with your module.

First, some small issues.  The syntax for your configuration is still fairly 
close to the python syntax and it involves quite a bit of learning for both 
python users and non-python users.  Your module would save me a little bit 
of work in parsing when loading a configuration (remember, I am loading 
configurations by importing them as a module) and a little more work than 
that in formatting when saving a configuration.  That work is not very 
significant though and having my own mechanism also has its advantages.

Now, here is the biggest issue I have and what I would be extremely 
interested in seeing in a configuration module.  I don't see from your 
documentation how I could programmatically create a configuration from 
scratch.  In my project I have a set of handlers and each handler has a 
special configuration.  Each such special configuration is defined by a 
structure of metadata (with information like name, type, description) that I 
implemented myself.  That way, my GUI tool can load a handler dynamically, 
read its configuration metadata, dynamically create a frame for the 
handler's configuration, and save the new configuration to a file.

Again, I only read your documentation, but I haven't seen anything like my 
configuration metadata, that would allow me to dynamically create a 
configuration from scratch.  Please correct me if I'm wrong and point me to 
something that your module has for this purpose.

I definitely appreciate your effort though and I hope that you continue 
working on this configuration module.  Like I said, configuration has been a 
big issue in my project and I would like to have a generic configuration 
that would satisfy all my needs instead of creating (and now evolving and 
maintaining) my own, custom-made configuration mechanism.  Something like 
the configuration metadata that I described is a very important feature for 
me.  I hope I described it clearly enough.  And again, my apologies if you 
already have such a feature and I only missed it.

Dan

"Vinay Sajip" <vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840 at posting.google.com...
> I've just made available the first general release of a configuration
> module for Python. It has grown out of the need to make configuration
> easier and more powerful (for developers and end users) than
> ConfigParser.
>
> It's one of the implementations which could be considered in the
> ConfigParser shootout, mentioned on the Python Wiki at
>
> http://www.python.org/moin/ConfigParserShootout
>
> What Does It Do?
> ================
> The config module allows you to implement a hierarchical configuration
> scheme with support for mappings and sequences, cross-references
> between one part of the configuration and another, the ability to
> flexibly access real Python objects, facilities for configurations to
> include and cross-reference one another, simple expression evaluation
> and the ability to change, save, cascade and merge configurations.
>
> This module has been developed on python 2.3 but should work on
> version 2.2 or greater. A test suite using unittest is included in the
> distribution.
>
> A very simple configuration file (simple.cfg):
>
> # starts here
> message: Hello, world!
> #ends here
>
> a very simple program to use it:
>
> from config import Config
>
> cfg = Config(file('simple.cfg'))
> print cfg.message
>
> results in:
>
> Hello, world!
>
> Configuration files are key-value pairs, but the values can be
> containers that contain further values
> A simple example - with the example configuration file:
>
> messages:
> [
>  {
>    stream : `sys.stderr`
>    message: 'Welcome'
>    name: 'Harry'
>  }
>  {
>    stream : `sys.stdout`
>    message: 'Welkom'
>    name: 'Ruud'
>  }
>  {
>    stream : $messages[0].stream
>    message: 'Bienvenue'
>    name: Yves
>  }
> ]
>
> a program to read the configuration would be:
>
> from config import Config
>
> f = file('simple.cfg')
> cfg = Config(f)
> for m in cfg.messages:
>    s = '%s, %s' % (m.message, m.name)
>    try:
>        print >> m.stream, s
>    except IOError, e:
>        print e
>
> which, when run, would yield the console output:
>
> Welcome, Harry
> Welkom, Ruud
> Bienvenue, Yves
>
> The above example just scratches the surface. There's more information
> about this module available at
>
> http://www.red-dove.com/python_config.html
>
> Comprehensive API documentation is available at
>
> http://www.red-dove.com/config/index.html
>
> As always, your feedback is most welcome (especially bug reports,
> patches and suggestions for improvement). Enjoy!
>
> Cheers
>
> Vinay Sajip
> Red Dove Consultants Ltd. 




From danperl at rogers.com  Tue Nov 23 18:47:14 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:47:14 -0500
Subject: protocols, inheritance and polymorphism
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>
	<Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<YWKod.137814$HA.44609@attbi_s01>
	<donn-F6A9D8.11153623112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<tqadnT2kAIXJEj7cRVn-hA@rogers.com>
	<donn-F39B72.13183123112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <mqedndyH_YCYUT7cRVn-uQ@rogers.com>


"Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message 
news:donn-F39B72.13183123112004 at gnus01.u.washington.edu...
> In article <tqadnT2kAIXJEj7cRVn-hA at rogers.com>,
> "Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote:
>
>> "Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message
>> news:donn-F6A9D8.11153623112004 at gnus01.u.washington.edu...
>> > In article <YWKod.137814$HA.44609 at attbi_s01>,
>> > Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
>> >> The point here is that I'm using isinstance here because I *know* 
>> >> there
>> >> are objects out there that, unlike Bunch objects, may have 
>> >> 'attributes'
>> >> not stored in their __dict__, and I *know* they might get passed to
>> >> Bunch.update.  Since I can't appropriately support their use, I want 
>> >> the
>> >> user to be notified of this (with the TypeError).
> ...
>> > I don't really see that isinstance() was necessary in principle
>> > here.  Not that it makes any difference to me, but it looks like
>> > you created this problem by defining these semantics in Bunch
>> > but failing to assign any identifiable attribute - we could in
>> > principle make another unrelated class "quack like a Bunch",
>> > but we'd have no way to inform your update function of this.
>>
>> I'm not sure what you mean by an "identifiable attribute", but I think we
>> are going back to an issue I pointed out in another posting in this 
>> thread.
>> It makes a huge difference whether your code is something that only you 
>> are
>> using and changing during the next few weeks or it's an off-the-shelf
>> library that will be maintained and changed for years from now and will 
>> be
>> used by many clients.  What is "identifiable" to you (or even to someone 
>> in
>> the next cubicle) for the next few weeks may not be identifiable a few 
>> years
>> from now or to someone who downloaded your module from the web.
>
> I wasn't really worried about people yet.  Perhaps I should have
> said more simply that there is no attribute, period, for this.
> Instead, in effect, the (base) class itself is used as that attribute.
> That's an unnecessary limitation, because we can easily support
> the required semantics from an unrelated class.
>
> I must have missed your post, but I infer that you're claiming that
> subtype polymorphism is easier to comprehend.  It wouldn't have
> occurred to me.  I do think the current situation is a little
> defective when it comes to reasoning about complicated code, but
> I don't think subtyping is a very obvious way to define interfaces.
> On one hand, it obviously isn't true that all objects that might
> support an interface must inherit that support from a common base,
> and it also isn't true that all objects derived from a common base
> reliably support that interface.  How easy would it be to inherit
> from "Bunch" and add some feature that confounds that function we
> saw earlier with the isinstance()?

I was rather saying that subtype polymorphism (through inheritance, rather 
than protocols) and checking with isinstance is safer.  You are right that 
inheritance is not foolproof either.  But if someone is inheriting from your 
base class, they are bound to be more aware of the interface and to be more 
careful when overriding an attribute that would completely change the 
behavior of their objects.  A protocol can be broken in many other ways.  In 
the case of a well known protocol like iterators most people know better 
than to use the name "next" for any attribute other than a method used for 
iteration.  But if you create a little known protocol interface with a 
poorly chosen attribute name like "x" it is very likely that someone is 
going to use the same name in a class for some attribute that is completely 
different (e.g., data instead of a method).  And if they are not explicitly 
inheriting from a base class they may never be aware they are obfuscating a 
behavior that is being used somewhere in their code.  Note that I said 
"explicitly inheriting", which infers that people can make the same kind of 
mistakes also if they inherit from some class without knowing it.

This discussion feels to me like deja vu.  It's a kind of philosophical 
discussion in which I've been involved before, with me on this side of the 
argument and with other people being on the side that says that "python is 
designed for people who rely more on their users and for users who are more 
reliable, the other people should use other languages" (my own 
paraphrasing).  I'm not saying this with any disrespect toward the other 
side.  After all, this is probably inherent in a dynamically typed language, 
and dynamic typing has other advantages instead.  It's just something I 
still have to get used to: what is python good for, in what kind of 
applications it should be used and when should you just use a different 
(perhaps a strongly typed) language.

Dan

>   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu 




From sridharinfinity at gmail.com  Tue Nov  9 02:06:56 2004
From: sridharinfinity at gmail.com (Sridhar  R)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 23:06:56 -0800
Subject: Yet another Python advocacy meant for students
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6122.1099944284.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <1099933487.007129.62640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.6122.1099944284.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1099984016.446392.264900@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

"Anna": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annadurai

Chennai, Tamilnadu is in India - http://www.mapsofindia.com

Thanks for feedback, I have forwarded it to the respective web
management persons.



From bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca  Sat Nov  6 17:14:35 2004
From: bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca (Brian van den Broek)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 17:14:35 -0500
Subject: Newsgroup mood
In-Reply-To: <874qk2y9mv.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6011.1099764243.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<874qk2y9mv.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <418D4CCB.4030602@po-box.mcgill.ca>

Israel Raj T said unto the world upon 2004-11-06 16:01:
> Brian van den Broek <bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca> writes:
> 
> 
>> (I recall a post I made to a LUG asking for help with an aborted
>> attempt to get Linux and my laptop's Winmodem to co-operate. I was
>> flamed because my mail headers indicated that I was using
>> Thunderbird on *Windows* -- the horror! --
> 
> 
> Or perhaps because you had not read the many available resources on
> using winmodems under linux.
> 
> BTW, if you are looking for a decent mail client check out gnus. Of
> the over 20 mail clients that I have used over the years, this is the
> best.

Perhaps. But the context was that I was a Linux neophyte (not much
beyond that now), identified myself as such, made sure to manifest that
I'd tried and failed to sort it out for myself, and did my best to
appear to be asking for help learning to fish, rather than to be handed
a cooked trout. :-) (As in, I'd read and tried to follow the advice of
Raymond's essay.)

I'm certain that the sort of care I put into asking the question made it
fall outside the scope of the comments about newbie questions made
up-thread. I've yet to see a Python list so react to someone who made it
clear they were trying to follow the norms, even if they didn't meet
with complete success. I think the issue is about those who don't try to
follow courteous practise, and perhaps aren't aware they aren't.

Any project, Linux, Python, whatever, that aims to get a user base
beyond the gurus has to accept that not everyone who needs help will be
able to work everything out based on what they can find on-line. (It is
clear to me that Python lists *do* accept this.) The problem isn't with
those who get stuck after trying for themselves; it those who hit send
before search :-)

But thanks for the comment, and the client pointer. Best,

Brian vdB





From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Fri Nov  5 11:01:59 2004
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 16:01:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Add a file to a compressed tarfile
References: <pan.2004.11.05.13.13.16.645896@hotmail.com>
	<opsgzt98rb13dtg9@vpn-client-248-060.london.eur.slb.com>
	<mailman.5962.1099662034.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.05.13.52.18.538666@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <cmg85n$qg2$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

Dennis Hotson <djdennie69 at hotmail.com> writes:


>I'm currently trying to read all of the files inside the tarfile... then
>writing them all back. Bit of a kludge, but it should work..

There isn't really any other way.  A tar file is terminated by two empty
blocks.  In order to append to a tar file you simply append a new tar file two
blocks from the end of the original.  If it was uncompressed you just seek
back from the end and write but if it's compressed you can't find that point
without decompressing[1].  In some cases a more time efficient but less space
efficient method would be to just compress individual files in a directory and
then tar them up before the final distribution (or whatever you do with your
tar file)

Eddie

[1] I think, unless there's a clever way of just decompressing the last few
    blocks.


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Sat Nov 27 19:26:40 2004
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 00:26:40 GMT
Subject: win32 problem with WM_COPYDATA
References: <b8c06209.0411261548.46495280@posting.google.com>
	<OLUpd.49878$K7.14436@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<b8c06209.0411271315.760bfbfd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4X8qd.50730$K7.34866@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Chris:

> Thanks a bunch.  Any ideas about the Unregistering error?

   Put a trace in the WM_DESTROY handler. You were reentering by calling
DestroyWindow within the WM_DESTROY handler.

   Neil




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Nov  4 10:09:31 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 10:09:31 -0500
Subject: pep 336: Make None Callable
In-Reply-To: <Michael.J.Fromberger-4D3433.09051504112004@localhost>
References: <S-6dncb1OqobIRTcRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<Michael.J.Fromberger-4D3433.09051504112004@localhost>
Message-ID: <NrqdnSbjEc6X2RfcRVn-uw@powergate.ca>

Michael J. Fromberger wrote:
>> >> PEP: 336
> I still think this is a silly idea, but at least it doesn't track mud 
> all over Python's nice clean rugs.

+1 QOTW  :-)


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 17 23:06:08 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 04:06:08 GMT
Subject: Named tuples
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.6511.1100727971.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnf6b7.nnqkns1c991f3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6520.1100738474.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10pntj5m0spvl3f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.6521.1100740991.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <419c0bad.338896507@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 23:23:02 -0200, Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:13:45 -0800, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
>> Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
>> 
>> >4. Named attribute access is supported by __getattr__. Names are
>> >looked up on the magic __names__ attribute of the tuple.
>> >
>> >5. On slicing, a named tuple should return another named tuple. This
>> >means that the __names__ tuple has to be sliced also.
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> Hm.  If __names__ is a tuple, then does that tuple have a __names__
>> attribute as well?
>> 
>> (In practice, I can't imagine any reason why tuple.__names__.__names__
>> should ever be anything other than None, but the potential recursiveness
>> makes me nervous...)
>
>Humm. The worst case is if it's done in a circular fashion, as in:
>
>mytuple.__names__ = nametuple
>nametuple.__names__ = mytuple
>
>That's weird. The best that I can imagine now is that it would be
>illegal to assign a named tuple to the __names__ member of another
>tuple.
>
>-- 
>Carlos Ribeiro
>Consultoria em Projetos
>blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
>blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
>mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
>mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com

Just to introduce a different perspective, a viewer for unnamed sequences,
rather than a new type with names:

 >>> class SeqVu(object):
 ...     """create sequence viewer object"""
 ...     def __init__(self, names=''):
 ...         for i, name in enumerate(names.split()):
 ...             setattr(self, name, i)
 ...     def __call__(self, tup):
 ...         """accept tup and return self for named access"""
 ...         self.tup = tup; return self
 ...     def __setitem__(self, i, tup):
 ...         """provide assignment target for tuples to view"""
 ...         self.tup = tup
 ...     def __getattribute__(self, name):
 ...         """get tuple item by name"""
 ...         return object.__getattribute__(self,'tup')[
 ...             object.__getattribute__(self, name)]
 ...
 >>> by3names = SeqVu('zero one two')
 >>> t = range(5)
 >>> by3names(t).one
 1
 >>> by3names(t).two
 2
 >>> for by3names[:] in [(i, chr(i)) for i in xrange(65, 70)]:
 ...     print by3names.one, by3names.zero
 ...
 A 65
 B 66
 C 67
 D 68
 E 69

Think of this as compost for the thought garden, not a bouquet ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From gumuz at NO_looze_SPAM.net  Fri Nov 26 05:06:23 2004
From: gumuz at NO_looze_SPAM.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:06:23 +0100
Subject: 1 file, multiple threads
Message-ID: <41a7000c$0$16489$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

If I have multiple threads reading from the same file, would that be a
problem?

if yes, how would I solve it?

Let's say I want to take it a step further and start writing to 1 file form
multiple threads, how would I solve that?


thanx,

Guyon




From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 02:25:46 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 07:25:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: No subject
References: <mailman.5742.1099278705.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4185e098.1316872382@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <loom.20041101T082447-648@post.gmane.org>

Bengt Richter <bokr <at> oz.net> writes:
> 
> Well, I don't have 2.4 yet, but what does it do?

>>> [x for x in [0] for x in iter(lambda:x+1, 4)]
[1, 2, 3]
>>> list(x for x in [0] for x in iter(lambda:x+1, 4))
[1, 2, 3]

Looks like it does just what you'd hope it would do.  =)

Steve



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  9 17:14:06 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 23:14:06 +0100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<87d5ysbkq9.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<4b39d922.0411051555.24f31663@posting.google.com>
	<x7u0s3r9gz.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<4b39d922.0411081437.277336a5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gn0awh.epa1re1lvef0zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Lonnie Princehouse <finite.automaton at gmail.com> wrote:

> > Java is interpreted just like Python is...
> 
> Java bytecodes are interpreted, but javac has the opportunity to do
> some optimizations when compiling source into bytecodes that
> fundamentally can't be done for Python because it's interpreted.  

This assertion is, simply, wrong.  The Python compiler has the
opportunity to perform plenty of optimizations, too.  If it only
performs a very few of them is most definitely _NOT_ "because it's
interpreted": Python is interpreted just as much as Java is.

> There's no equivalent of "exec" in Java.

...so on any function containing an 'exec', even the few key
optimizations the Python compiler does are turned off.  So what?
Doesn't mean they have to be turned off in normal, sane functions which
simply to NOT use 'exec'.

The fact that optimizations are turned off is one of many excellent
reasons to avoid USING Python's exec, btw.

>   Psyco makes a valiant
> attempt to do this sort of optimization (and does an excellent job!),
> but it's not hard to write perfectly legal Python code that makes
> Psyco explode.

I wouldn't be surprised if psyco had bugs: so did the first several
generations of Java JITs, even with a couple more orders of magnitude of
people slaving away on them than have worked on psyco.  That has nothing
to do with "being interpreted" somehow differing between Java and
Python.


Alex


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 18 15:19:58 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:19:58 -0700
Subject: returning unordered keyword arguments from a function (WAS: Are
	multiple return values really harmful?)
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.6511.1100727971.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8ef9bea6.0411180831.e44ae56@posting.google.com>
	<e47nd.630528$8_6.343583@attbi_s04>
Message-ID: <cnj05e$8n9$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steven Bethard wrote:

> My understanding is that this is for efficiency reasons...??I?remember
> some older discussions, but they're kinda hard to google since 'object'
> isn't a very good query term...??Personally,?I?don't?really?care?about
> being able to assign attributes dynamically to an object() instance, but
> I would like to be able to do something like:
> 
> >>>?r?=?object(year=2004,?month=11,?day=18)
> >>>?r.day,?r.month,?r.year
> (18, 11, 2004)

Given that the necessary class is literally a 3-liner, I'm not sure a language
extension is truly needed:

In [1]: class bunch:
   ...:     def __init__(self,**kw):
   ...:         self.__dict__.update(kw)
   ...:

In [2]: r=bunch(year=2004,month=11,day=18)

In [3]: r.day,r.month,r.year
Out[3]: (18, 11, 2004)

Cheers,

f



From baza41 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 11 21:57:38 2004
From: baza41 at gmail.com (baza)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 02:57:38 +0000
Subject: idle on mac os 10.3.5
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.12.02.57.38.224572@gmail.com>

Is there a version of Idle that works under Mac Panther?

B


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  5 04:43:49 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:43:49 +0100
Subject: recursion in __cmp__
References: <3da35075.0411050045.379477af@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gmrxib.1nf9pj6fiich0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Victor Safronovich <vsafronovich at naumen.ru> wrote:

> please comment this
> Python 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> >>> class A:
>         def __cmp__(self, other):
>                 print '%s|%s' %(`self`, `other`)
>                 return cmp(self, other)

What is there to comment?  This is obviously and blatantly recursive,
since cmp(a, b) delegates back to a.__cmp__(b) [[for classic classes;
for a newstyle class it would be type(a).__cmp__(a, b) with the same
recursive effect in this case]].

Just like the simpler example: def __len__(self): return len(self)


Alex


From jerf at jerf.org  Sat Nov 13 20:49:42 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 20:49:42 -0500
Subject: a very newbie question about threading
References: <9c3edc58.0411121629.45652543@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.13.09.39.18.937887@jerf.org>
	<cn40u3$e8f$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.14.01.49.41.995720@jerf.org>

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 23:01:37 -0500, Peter Hansen wrote:
> Python makes writing threaded code much more straightforward than many
> languages, and also provides some protection from some types of bugs which
> are almost ubiquitous in threaded applications in some other languages. 
> By sticking with the Queue object (see the module by that name) as the
> sole means of communication between threads, the vast majority of other
> thread-related problems simply disappears.  Not all of them -- and
> Jeremy's caution about threads giving even expert programmers pause
> applies -- but in general Python's not a bad place to learn and use
> threads...

I've been looking over the recently announced "Candygram" module, too, and
while I must admit I haven't used it it does look **very** nice and I
think I will next time it makes sense.

http://candygram.sourceforge.net/

Took me a little bit to figure out exactly how to ask a foreign thread for
a value synchronously but the sample program "program_5.2.py" shows how
(and the _alt program does it in Python better). This makes more sense if
you read along in the Erlang book as suggested.



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov 23 01:31:16 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 06:31:16 GMT
Subject: Is there a consensus on how to check a polymorphic instance?
In-Reply-To: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <UOAod.74201$V41.1421@attbi_s52>

Mike Meng wrote:
> 1. In `Text Processing in Python', David Mertz suggests using `hasattr'
> to check abilities instead of type checking.

hasattr can give you problems if the attribute you're checking for is 
calculated on the fly since hasattr basically does the same thing 
getattr does:

 >>> class C(object):
...     def time():
...         def fget(self):
...             time.sleep(5)
...             return time.time()
...         return dict(fget=fget)
...     time = property(**time())
...
 >>> c = C()
 >>> hasattr(c, 'time')
True
 >>> c.time
1101191279.3729999

If you run the code above, you'll get the 5 second pause both during the 
hasattr call and the c.time access.  If any object you use calculates 
attribute values on the fly, calling hasattr before directly accessing 
the attribute will cause the value to be calculated twice.

Steve


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  4 03:59:58 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 00:59:58 -0800
Subject: ANN: New configuration module released
References: <2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0411040059.664631bc@posting.google.com>

vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip) wrote:
> I've just made available the first general release of a configuration
> module for Python. 

I know you probably want a lot of features, but then different people
want different things. What a person considers necessary, others may
find them unnecessary, and vice versa.

Microsoft went from .INI files to Windows registry, and now to
XML-based app.config files in the .NET world. I know app.config files
are not the best thing with the cleanest format, but, why re-invent
the wheel?

Microsoft's XML-based app.config is guaranteed to be widely used. For
something as minor as configuration files, for people that juggle
between many programming languages, I guess it's an OK solution.

I know many people may not like the XML overhead, I know many people
don't like Microsoft. But when you have to use hierarchical
configuration files across many programming languages, I don't know
any format out there that can compete with app.config. To me, the war
is already over.

regards,

Hung Jung


From claird at lairds.us  Fri Nov 12 20:08:04 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 01:08:04 GMT
Subject: Strong types (.NET) versus weak types (Python)
References: <ec6dce8b.0411120939.47dd1a1b@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6311.1100281935.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1b3g62-fdu.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <mailman.6311.1100281935.5135.python-list at python.org>,
Steven Bethard  <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
>j_mckitrick <j_mckitrick <at> bigfoot.com> writes:
>> 
>> I recently took a one week course on .NET, and they emphasized over
>> and over again that the key is types.  Everything is strongly typed
>> and enforced.
>> 
>> Python is the exact opposite.
>
>Python is strongly typed by most normal definitions of "strongly typed" (though
>see http://www.python.org/moin/StrongVsWeakTyping for arguments about exactly
>what strong/weak typing means).  I believe what you mean to say is that .NET is
>statically typed, in which case it's true that Python is the opposite --
>dynamically typed.
>
>It's claimed by some that Python 3000 will have optional static type
>declarations, though only time will tell...  It's far from trivial in a language
>like Python that allows you to do things like change an object's class at
>runtime.
>
>> I prefer Python, but is .NET likely to change this view of types?
>
>No.  Static vs. dynamic typing is a major language decision and is usually hard
>to change, at least in any meaningful way.  .NET could go to dynamic typing, but
>you would lose all the compile-time checking for very little gain -- AFAIK it
>doesn't provide any way to do the things that make dynamic typing most useful,
>like adding methods to an object, changing the class of an object, etc. at
>runtime.
			.
			.
			.
I'm very curious, now, to learn what the course said.
My *guess* is that good .NET style was presented as at-
tentive to type, without regard to the static-dynamic
dimension.

Whatever's going on, one might well make a case that
good .NET programming and good Python programming
*both* improve on typical contemporary practices.
That's a fairly low bar, as some of my colleagues
phrase it.


From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Mon Nov  8 17:07:37 2004
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 22:07:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com> <2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<60dfb6f6.0411050715.601f381f@posting.google.com>
	<2v82u3F2dhtcpU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cmoqn9$cbf$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
> Carl Banks wrote:
>> I recommend we stop using "weak/strong typing" as a technical term,
>> and leave it to be a meaningless buzzword for the ignorant peasantry.

> How about:

>     solid typing -- sharp boundaries between types, few
>                     automatic coercions

>     fluid typing -- lots of automatic coercions

> (Don't ask me what "gaseous typing" might mean...)

I think both liquids and gases are considered fluids.  Liquid Typing
and Gaseous Typing would be sub-categories.


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  9 12:35:28 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 10:35:28 -0700
Subject: ANN: IPython 0.6.4 is out.
References: <mailman.6129.1099948743.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmpsam$l3i$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <cmqv5o$h8a$1@sea.gmane.org>

Stefan Behnel wrote:

> Fernando Perez schrieb:
>> In a few weeks, I
>> will probably open a separate CVS branch for this, so that I can still fix
>> bugs for version 0.6.4 in CVS HEAD if they are found.  Needless to say, any
>> volunteers are welcome to help :)
> 
> Just a quick note on this one:
> 
> If you are already planning to abandon the current tree after the
> restructuring, why don't you put the current version into a CVS branch and
> continue working on CVS HEAD? You can still make changes to the branch in
> case someone finds bugs in it.

Thanks!  That is indeed my intention, so I'll probably follow your advice.  But
will this mean that unsuspecting souls using CVS will get HEAD automatically? 
If that's the case, I'll add a nice warning about HEAD becoming _really_
unstable for a while, so I don't burn anyone.  So far HEAD has been the place
for users to get cutting-edge bugfixes, so at least I should warn them that
this may change in the future.

I've never used branches in CVS, so I didn't really know.  Feel free to expand
with further advice, as I'm sure it will be extremely useful to me.

Regards,

f



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov  9 17:27:58 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 22:27:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Packing list elements into tuples
References: <cmrcqq$rv4$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <loom.20041109T232213-140@post.gmane.org>

Nickolay Kolev <nmkolev <at> uni-bonn.de> writes:
> l = [1,2,3,4,5,6]
> 
> tups = [(1,2,3), (4,5,6)]

My favorite idiom:

>>> l = [1,2,3,4,5,6]
>>> zip(*(iter(l),)*3)
[(1, 2, 3), (4, 5, 6)]
>>> l = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9] 
>>> zip(*(iter(l),)*3)
[(1, 2, 3), (4, 5, 6), (7, 8, 9)]

If you want dicts, try:

>>> l = [1,2,3,4,5,6]
>>> tuples = zip(*(iter(l),)*3)
>>> labels = 'first second third'.split()
>>> [dict(zip(labels, t)) for t in tuples]
[{'second': 2, 'third': 3, 'first': 1}, {'second': 5, 'third': 6, 'first': 4}]

Basically, you can make a dict with whatever labels you want by zipping your
labels with the appropriate tuples and calling the dict builtin.

Steve



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov 23 14:33:58 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:33:58 GMT
Subject: is int(round(val)) safe?
References: <rowen-8AF206.11131622112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<cntjpk$qc2$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<41a2b5fb.775710152@news.oz.net> <x74qjgtsq8.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <41a37efb.827166031@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:50:23 -0600, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:

>bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:
>
>> On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:58:54 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>>Russell E. Owen wrote:
>>>The problem* with floating point is inaccurate representation
>>>of certain _fractional_ values, not integer values.
>>
>> Well, you mentioned really large integers, and I think it's worth
>> mentioning that you can get inaccurate representation of certain of those
>> values too. I.e., what you really have (for ieee 754 doubles) is 53 bits
>> to count with in steps of one weighted unit, and the unit can be 2**0
>> or 2**otherpower, where otherpower has 11 bits to represent it, more or less
>> +- 2**10 with an offset for 53. If the unit step is 2**1, you get twice the range
>> of integers, counting by two's, which doesn't give you a way of representing the
>> odd numbers between accurately. So it's not only fractional values that can get
>> truncated on the right. Try adding 1.0 to 2.0**53 ;-)
>
>It's much easier than that to get integer floating point numbers that
>aren't correct. Consider:
>
>>>> long(1e70)
>10000000000000000725314363815292351261583744096465219555182101554790400L

Yes. I was just trying to identify the exact point where you lose 1.0 granularity.
The last number, with all ones in the available significant bits (including the hidden one)
is 2.**53-1.0

 >>> from ut.miscutil import prb
 >>> prb(2.**53-1.0)
 '11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111'
 >>> prb(2.**53-1.0).count('1')
 53

the last power of 10 that is accurate is 22, and the reason is plain
when you look at the bits:

10**22 has more than 53 bits but only zeroes to the right of the 53, but 10**23
has a bit to the right.

 >>> prb(2.**53-1.0)
 '11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111'
 >>> prb(10**22)
 '10000111100001100111100000110010011011101010110010010000000000000000000000'
 >>> prb(1e22)
 '10000111100001100111100000110010011011101010110010010000000000000000000000'

whereas for 23 1e23 != 10**23
 >>> prb(10**23)
 '10101001011010000001011000111111000010100101011110110100000000000000000000000'
 >>> prb(1e23)
 '10101001011010000001011000111111000010100101011110110000000000000000000000000'

The zeroes are eliminated if you use a power of 10/2 or 5, which is always odd
 >>> prb( 5**22)
 '1000011110000110011110000011001001101110101011001001'
 >>> prb( 5**23)
 '101010010110100000010110001111110000101001010111101101'
 >>> prb(2.**53-1.0)
 '11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111'

Or in decimal terms:

 >>> 5.**22
 2384185791015625.0
 >>> 5**22
 2384185791015625L
 >>> 5.**23
 11920928955078124.0
 >>> 5**23
 11920928955078125L
 >>> 2**53
 9007199254740992L

so what makes 5.**22 ok is that

 >>> 5.**22 <= 2.**53-1
 True

>I don't know the details on 754 FP, but the FP I'm used to represents
>*all* numbers as a binary fraction times an exponent. Since .1 can't
>be represented exactly, 1e<anything> will be wrong if you ask for
>enough digits.
I don't understand the "since .1 ..." logic, but I agree with the second
part. Re *all* numbers, if you multiply the fraction represented by the
53 fractional bits of any number by 2**53 you get an integer that you can
consider to be multiplied by 2 ** (the exponent for the fraction - 53),
which doesn't change anything, so I did that, so I could talk about
counting by increments of 1 unit of least precision. But yes, the
usual description is as a fraction times a power of two.

>
>This recently caused someone to propose that 1e70 should be a long
>instead of a float. No one mentioned the idea of making
>
>[0-9]+[eE]+?[0-9]+ be of integer type, and
>
>[0-9]*.[0-9]+[eE][+-]?[0-9]+ be a float. [0-9]+[eE]-[0-9]+ would also
>be a float. No simple rule for this, unfortunately.
>
I wrote a little exact decimal module based on keeping decimal exponents and
a rational numerator/denominator pair, which allows keeping an exact representation
of any reasonable (that you might feel like typing ;-) literal, like 1e70, etc., e.g.,

 >>> ED('1e70')
 ED('1.0e70')
 >>> ED('1e70').astuple()
 (1, 1, 70)
 >>> ED('1.23e-45')
 ED('1.23e-45')
 >>> ED('1.23e-45').astuple()
 (123, 1, -47)
 >>> ED('0.1')
 ED('0.1')
 >>> ED('0.1').astuple()
 (1, 1, -1)


The reason I mention this is not because I think all floating constants should be represented
this way in final code, but that maybe they should in the compiler ast, before code has been
generated. At that point, it seems a shame to have done a premature lossy conversion to platform
floating point, since one might want to take the AST and generate code with other representations.
I.e.,

 >>> import compiler
 >>> compiler.parse('a=0.1')
 Module(None, Stmt([Assign([AssName('a', 'OP_ASSIGN')], Const(0.10000000000000001))]))
 >>> compiler.parse('0.1')
 Module(None, Stmt([Discard(Const(0.10000000000000001))]))

but
 >>> from ut.exactdec import ED
 >>> ED('0.1')
 ED('0.1')
 >>> ED('0.1').astuple()
 (1, 1, -1)

vs what's represented by the actual floating point bits

 >>> ED(0.1,'all')
 ED('0.1000000000000000055511151231257827021181583404541015625')
 >>> ED(0.1,'all').astuple()
 (1000000000000000055511151231257827021181583404541015625L, 1L, -55)

Anyway, tuple is an easy exact possibility for intermediate representation of the number.
Of course, I guess you'd have to tag it as being from a floating point literal or else a code
generator would lose that implicit representation directive for ordinary code generation ...

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Nov  2 20:29:20 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 20:29:20 -0500
Subject: getting socket.bind() exception, but no actual error
In-Reply-To: <4187d4fc$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
References: <1224a8f9.0411011045.6740c5d8@posting.google.com>
	<RSxhd.2736$931.635@lakeread01>
	<1224a8f9.0411021007.26ec80da@posting.google.com>
	<4187d4fc$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <8BWhd.30793$SW3.23350@fed1read01>

Michael Fuhr wrote:

> clarence at silcom.com (Clarence Gardner) writes:
> 
> 
>>And the whole point of the test in the exception handling suite (checking
>>for "in use") is to repeat the bind until that's not the case. This is, of
>>course, in a program in development which sometimes is not able to be 
>>restarted right away after a problem.
> 
> 
> Why not?  Because you get "Address already in use" exceptions due
> to old connections still being in the TIME_WAIT state?  If so, are
> you aware that server processes should usually set the SO_REUSEADDR
> socket option before calling bind()?  Or is there some other reason
> that bind() fails?
> 

There is some other reason: the exception argument is (errno 22, Invalid 
argument), which is clearly not "Address in use".

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Thu Nov  4 10:02:47 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 16:02:47 +0100
Subject: seg fault
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5908.1099577174.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5908.1099577174.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418a42d7$0$26686$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Ajay wrote:
> hi!
> 
> i have some code with a gui that does some processing in another thread,
> say t2.
> when t2 needs to display something on the gui, it generates an event (which
> i have binded earlier). the code runs fine on windows but segfaults on
> linux.
> the point where it segfaults is when it generates the event.
> 
> any ideas why?
> 
> the code is
[snip code]

Can you reproduce the problem with a simpler script? For example, does the 
following script work for you:

---------------------------------------------------------------------
import time, threading
from Tkinter import *

class MyApp:

   def __init__(self):
     self.root = Tk()
     self.ping = 0
     self.lbl = Label(self.root, text='idle', width=6)
     self.lbl.pack()
     self.root.bind('<<go>>', self.toggleLabel)
     th = threading.Thread(target=self.runThread)
     th.setDaemon(1)
     th.start()

   def run(self):
     self.root.mainloop()

   def toggleLabel(self, ping):
     if self.ping:
       self.lbl['text'] = 'ping'
     else:
       self.lbl['text'] = 'pong'
     self.ping = not self.ping

   def runThread(self):
     while 1:
       time.sleep(1)
       self.root.event_generate('<<go>>', when='tail')

app = MyApp()
app.run()
---------------------------------------------------------------------

I used this trick many times to make secondary threads communicate with a 
Tkinter GUI, and never encountered a seg fault.

Since you apparently use custom modules, I'd say that the problem is more likely 
to come from these modules, and not from Python or Tkinter. Is the elvin module 
written in Python or in C or C++? If it is written in C or C++, since it uses a 
Python callback (sub.add_listener(self.answerMessage)), make sure it correctly 
handles the global interpreter lock. If it doesn't, it may be the cause of your 
seg fault.

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov 19 17:04:19 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:04:19 -0500
Subject: Events
References: <MPG.1c08708d5ec6746c989688@news-server>
Message-ID: <cnlqko$qe8$1@sea.gmane.org>


"factory" <t at t.com> wrote in message 
news:MPG.1c08708d5ec6746c989688 at news-server...
>  Anyone want to comment on what they think of this following bit of a
> simple event framework?

Since there can be multiple listeners for a particular type of event, I 
would use an event-listener dict with event as key and list of listeners as 
the value.  This simplifies the code.  Plus, linearly scanning a list of 
event listener pairs to respond to an event (or deregister) will bite when 
the list gets long enough.  So, in __init__,
    self.listeners = {}

For AddListener, the handy idiom for appending a new listener to a possibly 
non-existent list of current listeners is
    self.listeners.get(event, []).append(listener)
(If you cannot other wise guarantee that listeners only try to register for 
a particular event once, you might want to add a check here.)

The body of Talk is then the much simpler
        for listener in self.listeners[event]:
                listener( *args )

If you can guarantee that listeners are only registered once for an event, 
then deletion is also simple: self.listeners[event].remove(listener)

Terry J. Reedy






From crap1234 at hotmail.com  Sat Nov  6 09:45:18 2004
From: crap1234 at hotmail.com (Stefan Axelsson)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 15:45:18 +0100
Subject: Beginning with Classes
In-Reply-To: <a37cb$418cce14$53e8229a$32210@freeler.nl>
References: <a37cb$418cce14$53e8229a$32210@freeler.nl>
Message-ID: <2v46bvF2fovnbU1@uni-berlin.de>

Noud Aldenhoven wrote:

> Is there a tutorial or a documentation about Python and classes. Starting
> from beginners and ending in avarege or expert?

If you haven't read "How to Think Like a Computer Scientist: Learning 
with Python", by Jeff Elkner (et.al.?) then I'd suggest you'd start 
there. Its geared towards beginning programmers and will get you started 
with classes etc. It's available on the web (free as in both beer and 
speech) at http://ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCS/python.php

Stefan,
-- 
Stefan Axelsson  (email at http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~sax)


From steve at ferg.org  Tue Nov  2 08:39:36 2004
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 05:39:36 -0800
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>

I am a very satisfied user of Python and have been for number of
years.  I would never willing use another language.  I wish all good
things for Python, and that moves me to express some thoughts about
Python's future prospects.

I submit that the future expansion of Python usage is constrained by
Python's lack of a CPAN-like facility, and I submit that without a
CPyAN Python will never even get close to achieving the degree of
widespread usage that Perl currently enjoys.

In saying this, I am not faulting Python's "batteries included"
philosophy or the standard library.  The standard library is one of
Python's greatest strengths.  The standard library is Python's "jewel
in the crown" and I whole-heartedly endorse Andrew Kuchling's recent
proposal that we focus our energies on improving it.

But there are limits to a standard library.  You can't put
_everything_ into a standard library, nor would you want to.  There
will always be many specialized modules that shouldn't be put into a
standard library, with new modules being developed all the time.

These not-in-the-standard-library modules -- let's call them external
modules -- are the keys to a language's growth, its popularity, and
ultimately its long-term survival.  The better the support for
external modules is, the more actively that they will be used and
(more importantly) re-used.  If external module support is good, that
makes it easy for developers to create external modules built on top
of existing external modules, and then to create even higher-level
external modules built on those, until a very large archive of very
powerful external modules is created.  With such an archive of
external modules, it is possible to do very complex, very specialized
tasks with only a few lines of code.

Note that the key to success is not the size of the archive.  CPAN is
not a success because it is large.  Rather, it is large because it is
a success.  CPAN is only secondarily a collection of modules. 
Primarily, CPAN is a set of *capabilities*: capabilities for storing,
documenting, checking for updates, searching, downloading, testing,
and installing external modules.  It includes support for creating
module tests and documentation.  And it is a social organization --
the CPAN testers group -- that guarantees at least a minimal level of
quality assurance for (and therefore trust in) modules in CPAN.  CPAN
(the library) is large because CPAN (the external module support
mechanism) is powerful and easy to use.

It is no good saying that Python doesn't need a CPyAN because we've
got Google, or we've got SourceForge, or we've got PyPI or distutils
or the Vaults of Parnassus.  Even used together, all of these tools
still fall short of the capabilities of CPAN.  Only a full CPyAN will
provide the quality and ease-of-use of external modules that will
enable Python to flourish in the coming decade.

This is _not_ to say that Python will die without a CPyAN.  It will
certainly survive and thrive.  But it will remain a niche language. 
Without a CPyAN, Python usage and the Python community can never and
will never grow to a size that even comes close to rivalling the size
of Perl.

Some might object that Python is not in a race with Perl, or that
popularity and size shouldn't be goals: that smaller and better should
be our goal.  But I submit that popularity _is_ a goal.  Ask any
Python programmer what his (or her) first wish is, and you will get
the reply: "I wish I could have a job in which I could spend all of my
time (or even, _some_ of my time) programming in Python."  The only
answer to that wish is popularity; such jobs won't exist until Python
becomes more popular.  (The second wish is an altruistic, professional
one: "I wish I could convince my organization to use Python, because
Python really is a better technology, and my organization really does
need it."  And the answer to that wish, too, lies in making Python
more popular.)

To those who treasure the standard library, and who switched to Python
to escape the need to visit CPAN for even trivial things, we can say:
that won't change.  The standard library will remain as strong as
ever; CPyAN will supplement but not replace it.

To those who shrink in revulsion from everything Perlish, I say:  CPAN
is a great system, regardless of who invented it.  It is the best
thing about Perl.  In the great tradition of Python eclecticism, let's
steal it!

Because a CPyAN is key to the long-term growth of Python, creating a
CPyAN should be one of the highest -- perhaps THE highest -- of the
Python Software Foundation's priorities.  Therefore, I would like to
suggest that the Python Software Foundation issue an RFP (request for
proposal) specifically for proposals to start building a CPyAN.

Building a CPyAN will be a big job, no question.  But I think that for
the Python community and for the Python Software Foundation, it should
be job number one.

-- Stephen Ferg (steve at ferg.org)

REFERENCES:

a very informative post on CPAN by Sean Reifschneider
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&selm=mailman.983354412.22606.python-list%40python.org&rnum=6

a post by Hans Nowak
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&threadm=39D0B743.A60%40hvision.nl&rnum=8&prev=/groups%3Fq%3D%2522something%2Blike%2BCPAN%2522%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*%26c2coff%3D1%26selm%3D39D0B743.A60%2540hvision.nl%26rnum%3D8

google c.l.p for "something like CPAN"
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22something+like+CPAN%22&hl=en&lr=&group=comp.lang.python.*&c2coff=1&scoring=d

requirements for the catalog SIG
http://www.python.org/sigs/catalog-sig/requirements.html


From russblau at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 19 10:38:43 2004
From: russblau at hotmail.com (Russell Blau)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:38:43 -0500
Subject: Question about thread
References: <1100875373.911763@eng-ser6>
Message-ID: <306ic5F2svtsdU1@uni-berlin.de>

"Valkyrie" <valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk> wrote in message
news:1100875373.911763 at eng-ser6...
> Refering to the following codes I found, there is nothing displayed in the
> console, may I ask why?
>
> def thrd(param): # the thread worker function
>     print "Received",param
>
> import thread
> for i in range(5): # start five threads passing i to each one
>     thread.start_new_thread(thrd,(i,))

You may ask, but when I tried your code, here is what happened:

Python 2.3.4 (#53, May 25 2004, 21:17:02) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> def thrd(param): # the thread worker function
...     print "Received",param
...
>>> import thread
>>> for i in range(5): # start five threads passing i to each one
...     thread.start_new_thread(thrd,(i,))
...
1960
836
232
2864
3692
>>> Received 0
Received 1
Received 2
Received 3
Received 4

Note that the numbers 1960, etc., appear to be the return values of the
thread.start_new_thread() function.


-- 
I don't actually read my hotmail account, but you can replace hotmail with
excite if you really want to reach me.




From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 00:49:38 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 05:49:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: pep 336:  Make None Callable
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041104T064449-707@post.gmane.org>

The Eternal Squire <eternalsquire <at> comcast.net> writes:
> 
>      Before, checking function table entry against None:
> 
>          class Select:
> 
>              def a(self, input):
>                  print 'a'
> 
>              def b(self, input):
>                  print 'b'
> 
>              def c(self, input);
>                  print 'c'
> 
>              def __call__(self, input):
>                  function = { 1 : self.a,
>                           2 : self.b,
>                           3 : self.c
>                         }.get(input, None)
>                  if function:  return function(input)

Another possibility:

>>> class Select:
...    def a(self, input):
...        print 'a'
...    def b(self, input):
...        print 'b'
...    def c(self, input):
...        print 'c'
...    def __call__(self, input):
...        try:
...            return {1:self.a,
...                    2:self.b,
...                    3:self.c}[input](input)
...        except KeyError:
...            pass
...           
>>> Select()(1)
a
>>> Select()(2)
b
>>> Select()(3)
c
>>> Select()(5)

I find this one much more useful.  Rarely do I truly want a no-op if I get a
value that isn't in my dict, in which case there is something other than pass in
the except block.

Steve





From mauriceling at acm.org  Sat Nov  6 02:31:23 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 18:31:23 +1100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <418C7DCB.60502@acm.org>


> Interestingly enough, I sort of share your perception -- and I have
> noticed the same thing, and seen it remarked upon by others, in other,
> completely unrelated newsgroups as well, such as it.comp.macintosh.
> 
> It's not, I think, about newbies in general: people who come and post
> help requests, without giving the information that's quite obviously
> indispensabile to let us help them, keep getting treated with
> unreasonable amounts of friendliness and courtesy even after many
> requests for more info go unheeded, for example.
> 
> However, newbies who are clueless enough to come blasting in with the
> usual whines we've heard a zillion times -- Macs cost too much, Python
> is too slow, there's no apps for Macs, Python must absolutely add
> feature X or it will die, Apple's gonna go broke tomorrow, etc, etc --
> do appear to get on our collective nerves worse than their essentially
> indistinguishable precursors did last year, two years ago, &c.
> 
> The accusation of being a troll often follows, breaking the old advice
> to "Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by
> incompetence".  Maybe it's a case of the corollary to that old advice,
> "Sufficiently advanced cluelessness is indistinguishable from malice".
> But why that should be so this year more than last year, say, is not
> clear to me...
> 
> 
> Alex

I've already said the following and was not noticed:

1. it is a disk intensive I/O operation.
2. users delay is not in the equation (there is no user input)
3. I am not interested in the amount of time needed to develop it. But 
only interested execution speed.

Thanks maurice


From unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom  Fri Nov 19 18:19:16 2004
From: unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom (Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non triviale en fuite perpétuelle.)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 00:19:16 +0100
Subject: Global variables in modules/functions
References: <cnltf7$ra6$1@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>
Message-ID: <419e7f83$0$8196$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !

It is extraordinary:  I have just had the same problem, there is seulemet
one hour!
For the moment, I prefix the variable;  but I will read with interest the
reponses with your message.

@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau





From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Thu Nov  4 18:50:45 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 18:50:45 -0500
Subject: CGIs and file exclusion
References: <2uvedvF2g1pv3U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <qnk1xf9b2cq.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

"darkhorse" <not_my_address at terra.es> writes:

> Hi all,
>
> While doing a quite big "set of programs" for a university subject I've
> found myself in the middle of a problem someone surely has had before, so
> I'm looking for some help.
>
> At one point, I call a python cgi that pickle.load's a file, adds or deletes
> a registry and dumps the result again in the file.
> I'm worried that the cgi could be called simultaneously from two or more
> different computers, thus most probably corrupting the files. I don't think
> I can use a mutex as it's two different instances of the program and not
> different threads, so I was thinking about locking the files between
> programs, but I really don't know how to do that. It's not a problem if
> there's no portable way of doing this, it's only going to be run on a linux
> based computer.

You want the fcntl module, and use either flock() or lockf().

import fcntl, cPickle
# open in update mode
fo = open('somefile.pickle', 'r+')
# acquire an exclusive lock; any other process trying to acquire this
# will block
fcntl.lockf(fo.fileno(), fcntl.LOCK_EX)
data = cPickle.load(fo)
... do stuff to data ...
# go back to the beginning
fo.seek(0)
# write out the new pickle
cPickle.dump(data, fo)
# throw the rest of the (old) pickle away
fo.truncate()
# and close. This releases the lock.
fo.close()

> Another solution I would accept is that the second called cgi detects that
> other instance is running and displays a message saying to try again later.
> Yes, not quite professional, but it'd do the job, after all this is just a
> little detail I want to settle for a quite picky professor and not a "real
> life" thing.

If you want to do something like that, use
fcntl.LOCK_EX | fcntl.LOCK_NB as the flags to fcntl.lockf(). If the
lock can't be acquired, an IOError will be raised, and you can print
out your message.

Note that lockf() does advisory locks; a process that just opens the
file and does something with it without calling lockf() *won't* be blocked.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From jubafre at atlas.ucpel.tche.br  Mon Nov 29 16:34:58 2004
From: jubafre at atlas.ucpel.tche.br (Juliano Freitas)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 19:34:58 -0200
Subject: using os
Message-ID: <1101764098.1056.2.camel@swdb>

how can i get just the directories in other directorie without a files
using the os module in Python??


Juliano





From richie at entrian.com  Tue Nov  2 11:56:06 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 16:56:06 +0000
Subject: fastest way for humongous regexp search?
In-Reply-To: <pdefo05m2vls517ffgt8lo83p8vs2duk8p@4ax.com>
References: <cm5lv3$7p4$1@license1.unx.sas.com>
	<sZqdnc_PlckB8BvcRVn-pw@giganews.com>
	<cm8993$gp8$1@license1.unx.sas.com>
	<pdefo05m2vls517ffgt8lo83p8vs2duk8p@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1uefo09ekhg19s19bdl1j5icp4uigtcafj@4ax.com>


[me, with brain switched off]
> Make the misspelling set lower case, and convert the list of words from
> the text file into lower case before comparing them:

Gah!  That code should read:

>>> from sets import Set
>>> misspellings = Set(['speling', 'misteak'])
>>> text = "Does this text contain any common Speling Mistakes?"
>>> print [word for word in text.lower().split() if word in misspellings]
['speling']

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com



From majordomo-owner at mutt.org  Fri Nov 12 09:50:20 2004
From: majordomo-owner at mutt.org (majordomo-owner at mutt.org)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 14:50:20 +0000
Subject: Majordomo results: Hey!
Message-ID: <20041112145021.838781E4007@bag.python.org>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20041112/9b2a5aa3/attachment.ksh>

From evil_pizz at hotmail.com  Sun Nov 28 21:56:46 2004
From: evil_pizz at hotmail.com (sepgy)
Date: 28 Nov 2004 18:56:46 -0800
Subject: Help on creating a HTML by python
Message-ID: <50d96c9b.0411281856.6c8d2ae9@posting.google.com>

Can anyone help me to use a python to create an HTML photo gallery
generator. When it's finished, it will be able find all the picture
files (i.e. .jpg, .gif. .png files) in any given folder on the
computer, automatically create smaller thumbnails for each image, and
then generate a complete HTML file that displays a clickable image
gallery. When viewed in a web browser, the HTML file will display the
thumbnails in a neatly formatted table, and if you click on one of the
thumbnails the full-size image will appear.

Thanks


From mauriceling at acm.org  Sun Nov  7 00:54:00 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 16:54:00 +1100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6004.1099753862.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6004.1099753862.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418DB878.9040604@acm.org>

> so as a result, I ask questions trying to describe the abstract case of 
> what I'm trying to do so that I don't get distracted down a rathole of 
> defending the application.  Needless to say, I suspect others are doing 
> the same thing and it's really really hard to describe the abstract case 
> in a way that's clear.
> 
It is indeed tough to describe a situation in many cases. This may be 
due to 3 cases, firstly, it will be extremely long and tedious to 
describe the rationale for a decision or a situation. Secondly, during 
idea explorations, the codes are not even written and there is no way to 
present any codes in newsgroups because they simply hadn't existed yet. 
Thirdly, it may be legally criminal to post any codes without prior 
clearance.

Even in academic institutions, because there are many industry sponsored 
projects, it is common these days that examiners of theses need to sign 
a NDA beforehand...

maurice


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov 22 09:07:28 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:07:28 -0500
Subject: Import problem
In-Reply-To: <cnsgb8$sep$04$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <cnseqa$g6s$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cnsgb8$sep$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <41A1F2A0.5050701@holdenweb.com>

Achim Domma (Procoders) wrote:

> Achim Domma (Procoders) wrote:
> 
>> Seems like I'm mixing up something in a very bad way, but I have no 
>> idea what I'm doing wrong!?
> 
> 
> I have moved the calculation of VERSION to a module _Version.py which 
> contains a function Version(), which is imported by __init__.py and 
> _C.py. That works and is much cleaner, but I would still be happy if 
> somebody could explain we, what's going wrong.
> 
> regards,
> Achim

Well, the big problem with your original formulation is your circular 
imports. In brief ...

If A imports B, and B imports A, the copy of A that B sees is the 
incompletely-executed definition at the time that the import of B was 
started.

When you say in your first post """
Now I should be able to write:

import A.B
if A.B.VERSION[0]=5:
     do_something()

but

from A.B import VERSION

does not work.""", are you trying to use both those formulations in the 
same module? You do not explain what you mean by "does not work", so I 
suspect that you are trying to use a package=based reference 
(A.B.VERSION) when you have actually imported the VERSION variable into 
your namespace.

sholden at dellboy ~
$ cat pkg/__init__.py
#!/usr/bin/python
objv = "2.3.45"
VERSION = tuple([int(x) for x in objv.split(".")])
del objv

sholden at dellboy ~
$ python -c "from pkg import VERSION; print VERSION"
(2, 3, 45)

The above is not an exact match for your code, but it shows that when 
you use the "from" form of the import statement the imported variables 
appear directly in the namespace of the importing module, so there is no 
need to qualify them with the package name.

Hope this helps. If not, perhaps you could post some actual error 
messages to explain what you mean by "does not work".

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From graham.fawcett at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 13:50:45 2004
From: graham.fawcett at gmail.com (Graham  Fawcett)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 10:50:45 -0800
Subject: Named tuples
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6392.1100556222.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbg4k.13z20mj1w1o0ysN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.6511.1100727971.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnf6b7.nnqkns1c991f3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6520.1100738474.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1100803845.574499.76470@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

> 2. Named tuples should, for all practical purposes, be an extension
of
> standard tuples.

Yes -- and explicitly so. A tuple that has names ought not be a tuple
at all, but rather a tuple subtype. The benefit of adding __names__ as
a tuple attribute is lost on me.

Let's add libraries, not language changes:


class namedtuplewrapper(tuple):
"""
Subclasses wrap existing tuples, providing names.
"""

_names_ = []

def __getattr__(self, name):
try:
x = self._names_.index(name)
except ValueError:
raise AttributeError, 'no such field: %s' % name
if x >= 0:
return self[x]

class namedtuple(namedtuplewrapper):
"""
Sugar for subclasses that construct named tuples from
positional arguments.
"""

def __new__(cls, *args):
return tuple.__new__(cls, args)


if __name__ == '__main__':

# namedtuple example

class foo(namedtuple):
_names_ = ['one', 'two', 'three', 'four', 'five']

f = foo(1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
assert f.one + f.four == f.five == 5


# wrapper example

class loctime(namedtuplewrapper):
_names_ = [
'year', 'month', 'day',
'hour', 'min', 'sec',
'wday', 'yday', 'isdst'
]

import time
loc = loctime(time.localtime())
print loc.year, loc.month, loc.day

# arbitrary naming of instances...
loc._names_ = ['a', 'b', 'c']
        print loc.a


-- Graham



From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Sat Nov 13 11:57:41 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (Premshree Pillai)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 16:57:41 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Advice needed
In-Reply-To: <1100361297.413616.17890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20041113165741.63498.qmail@web8501.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Alberto <aaflores at gmail.com> wrote: 
> I was trying to understand the reasons why I should
> learn Python. More
> like a pros/cons about this language. Currently, I
> use C, C/C++, Java,
> Perl, Visual VB and was looking to see the
> usefulness of Python.  Any
> suggestions?
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>  

Lots of reasons why you should learn Python. I'll
leave that to others in the mailing-list. :)

I'm not sure where I heard the following, but I've
heard it:
"If God did OOP, he'd do it in Python."

;)

--Premshree

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partner online
Go to: http://yahoo.shaadi.com/india-matrimony


From clarence at silcom.com  Mon Nov  1 13:45:31 2004
From: clarence at silcom.com (Clarence Gardner)
Date: 1 Nov 2004 10:45:31 -0800
Subject: getting socket.bind() exception, but no actual error
Message-ID: <1224a8f9.0411011045.6740c5d8@posting.google.com>

I've got a problem that I don't see how to program around. A socket server
that was running fine, today started getting an exception from the bind()
call (errno 22, Invalid argument) and yet the bind had actually worked.

This is apparent from this code: it prints the error message, but then 
breaks out of the loop and the listen() and accept() calls work normally.

How can one handle a function that is both working and raising an
exception?

    sockobj=socket(AF_INET,SOCK_STREAM)
    while True:
        try:
            sockobj.bind(('',4321))
        except socketerror,e:
            print e
            if str(e).find('in use') == -1:
                break
            print '.'
            time.sleep(1)
    sockobj.listen(5)


From vinay_sajip at red-dove.com  Wed Nov  3 18:29:44 2004
From: vinay_sajip at red-dove.com (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 23:29:44 +0000
Subject: New configuration module - interfacing to command line options
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5873.1099513574.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5873.1099513574.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418969E8.4040501@red-dove.com>

Neal,
> 
> I believe a decent config module should at least handle both config files
> and command line options.  ENV variables are a nice touch too.
> 
Further to my earlier post, I did a bit of thinking and find it very 
easy to accommodate command line options read via optparse within the 
overall configuration framework. Consider the following hypothetical 
configuration file 'cmdline.cfg':

cmdline_values:
{
   verbose : `cmdline.verbose`
   file: `cmdline.filename`
}
other_config_items:
{
   whatever : 'you want'
}

The values of interest are those provided in the 'cmdline_values' part 
of the configuration. (You can, of course, use whatever structure you 
like - this is only an example.)

Consider the following program:

from optparse import OptionParser
from config import Config

parser = OptionParser()
parser.add_option("-f", "--file",
                 action="store", type="string", dest="filename",
                 help="write report to FILE", metavar="FILE")
parser.add_option("-q", "--quiet",
                 action="store_false", dest="verbose", default=1,
                 help="don't print status messages to stdout")

(options, args) = parser.parse_args()

cfg = Config(file('cmdline.cfg'))
cfg.addNamespace(options, 'cmdline')
print "The verbose option value is %r" % cfg.cmdline_values.verbose
print "The file name is %r" %  cfg.cmdline_values.file

After parsing the command line using OptionParser, we read in the 
configuration (possibly getting the configuration file from the parsed 
options, though not in this case). We also add a namespace called 
'cmdline' which adds the parsed option settings to the configuration. 
When we later reference cfg.cmdline_values.verbose, this references 
`cmdline.verbose`, and this resolves to the 'verbose' attribute of the 
parsed-options object (added under the name 'cmdline'). The program will 
print

The verbose option value is False
The file name is 'test'

as you would expect.

N.B. I had to make a small change to the Config.addNamespace method to 
get this to work. The current release (0.3) does not have this fix, but 
the next release will.

Best regards,



Vinay Sajip


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Nov  8 14:53:18 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 11:53:18 -0800
Subject: Simple thread pools
In-Reply-To: <Y3Kjd.13319$931.8364@lakeread01>
References: <mailman.5937.1099608210.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Y3Kjd.13319$931.8364@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <20041108101014.F879.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> 
> Josiah Carlson wrote:
> 
> > Jacob Friis <lists at debpro.webcom.dk> wrote:
> > 
> >>I have built a script inspired by a post on Speno's Pythonic Avocado:
> >>http://www.pycs.net/users/0000231/weblog/2004/01/04.html#P10
> >>
> >>I'm setting NUM_FEEDERS to 1000.
> >>Is that crazy?
> > 
> > 
> > Not crazy, but foolish.  Thread scheduling in Python reduces performance
> > beyond a few dozen threads.  If you are doing system calls (socket.recv,
> > file.read, etc.), your performance will be poor.
> > 
> Is this speculative, or do you have some hard evidence to support it? I 
> recently rewrote a billing program that delivers statements by email. 
> The number of threads it uses is a parameter to the program, and we are 
> currently running at 200 with every evidence of satisfaction - this 
> month's live run sent something over 10,000 emails an hour.

There is a slowdown (perhaps 'poor' was a bad description).

>>> i = 1
>>> import os
>>> while i < 256:
...     t = os.system('test_thread1.py %i'%i
...     i *= 2
...
0.0 8.45300006866 204800000
0.0 7.625 204800000
0.0 9.65600013733 204800000
0.0150001049042 11.2969999313 204800000
0.0159997940063 15.8280000687 204800000
0.0780000686646 16.6719999313 204800000
0.172000169754 17.2029998302 204734464
0.125 18.7189998627 204734464
>>>

Back in the days of Python 2.0, I had written what would now be called a
P2P framework.  I initially used blocking threads for communication, and
observed that as my number of connections and threads increased, I saw a
marked reduction in throughput, and an increase in latency (even on a
local machine).  In switching to an asynchronous framework (heavily
derived from asyncore), I ended up with a system that had nearly constant
throughput regardless of the number of connections.



> > 
> >>Are there a better solution?
> > 
> > 
> > Fewer threads.  Try running at 10-30.  If you are finding that you
> > aren't able to handle the load with those threads, then your
> > processor/disk/etc isn't fast enough to handle the load.
> > 
> I'm tempted to say "rubbish", but that would be rude, so instead I'll 
> just ask for some evidence :-). Don't forget that in network-based tasks 
> the time spent waiting for connection turnarounds can dominate the 
> elapsed time for execution - did you perhaps overlook that?

Evidence has been provided.

 - Josiah



#test_thread1.py
import socket
import time
import threading
import sys
import os

paircount = int(sys.argv[1])
c = threading.Condition()

l = threading.Lock()
ds = 0L

def reader(n, p):
    o_r = os.read
    global ds
    c.acquire()
    c.wait()
    c.release()
    ld = 0
    for i in xrange(n):
        ld += len(o_r(p, 1024))
    l.acquire()
    ds += ld
    l.release()

s = 1024*'\0'
def writer(n, p):
    o_w = os.write
    global ds
    c.acquire()
    c.wait()
    c.release()
    ld = 0
    for i in xrange(n):
        ld += o_w(p, s)
    l.acquire()
    ds += ld
    l.release()


count = 100000
blks = count/paircount
for i in xrange(paircount):
    r,w = os.pipe()
    threading.Thread(target=reader, args=(blks, r)).start()
    threading.Thread(target=writer, args=(blks, w)).start()

time.sleep(1)
t = time.time()
c.acquire()
c.notifyAll()
c.release()
print time.time()-t,
t = time.time()
while len(threading.enumerate()) > 1:
    time.sleep(.05)
print time.time()-t, ds



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  1 04:01:15 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 11:01:15 +0200
Subject: List problem
References: <clttqo$gfu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
	<mailman.5668.1099072329.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<v2m9o0d7d1v3h4doumfkmb4djk41u0gb9c@4ax.com>
	<1gmiyon.jvyq1w1ob9r59N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41853d5f.1278687054@news.oz.net>
	<1gmjqh9.oialil1r1xwffN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41858eaa.1299498379@news.oz.net>
	<1gmkg86.1nzf8g91e7yby5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<418603c1.1325873395@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <1gmkjv7.fmssxmzmspbhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
   ...
> >I ran these on an 800 MHz laptop, the one I invariably use for netting
> >-- best ergonomics.  OK, I'll try with faster machines when I get a
> >chance -- I'm surprised you measure almost a 1:2 ratio with _br faster.
> >
> Maybe the listcomp optimizations were introduced in 2.3.4? Or even 2.4.x?

2.4, I think.

> I have Python 2.3.2 on an old 300 MHz P2 with 320 MB RAM and NT4 as OS,
> so the mystery deepens ;-)

The real mistery is why you don't download and install 2.4b1, which can
perfectly live side by side with your (outdated) 2.3 install...!-)

Python's quality depends on people downloading and trying out the betas,
after all.  If knowledgeable enthusiasts like you don't do it, who?-)


Alex


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Nov 24 08:24:58 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 14:24:58 +0100
Subject: Using alternative PyObject* in dynamically created classes
References: <tyfbrdu1b2m.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyf653whfyi.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.6730.1101244047.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tyfllcrfkgl.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Ronald Oussoren <ronaldoussoren at mac.com> writes:

> Do you want to create those classes in Python, or from your extension
> module?

Both actually.

> If you create the class in C its easy to add a hidden slot.

If you create the class statically. I need to be able to create them
dynamically, by calling type.__new__.

Anyway, the way forward seems to be to create a base class with the
appropriate slot, and dynamically create subclasses of it, as Thomas
suggested. type_new adds some slots to whatever it finds in the
superclass' tp_basicsize.


From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Mon Nov  8 07:39:17 2004
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 12:39:17 -0000
Subject: Py2exe help for beginner
References: <51908f36.0411080408.2772f6c4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <opsg5b3rau13dtg9@h6yvc01-wgg.eur.slb.com>

On 8 Nov 2004 04:08:30 -0800, PeterFI <peximies at suomi24.fi> wrote:

> Howdy folks,
>
> I?m taking my first steps in a world of python and I start from the
> end:)
>
> I have this little application written in python and I need to convert
> it to Finnish. Modifications to the source code are ready and now I
> need to compile it to exe. It is only one py file, Iterator.py.
>
> my setup.py looks like this
>
> from distutils.core import setup
> import glob,os,sys
> import py2exe
>
>
> setup(name='MyIterator',
>       version='0.2',
>       author='P.P',
>       py_modules=["Iterator"])
>
> it runs nicely but no exe is created? What am I missing?


What does the output of the 'python setup.py py2exe' command look like
exactly?



From victorn234 at 138mail.com  Wed Nov 17 06:40:09 2004
From: victorn234 at 138mail.com (Keith)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 03:40:09 -0800
Subject: EVIL FBI SADISTS should be HUNTED, KIDNAPPED and TORTURED for 3 YRS
Message-ID: <8880818c.0411170340.726aeb0d@posting.google.com>

Someone emailed and requested me to post it on Usenet newsgroups. 

Sadistic FBI agents should be tortured the way how FBI sadists and
perverts
tortured this poor guy (non-muslim) for three years and continue to
torture
him even after he left america tracking him with implanted transponder
chips
and other methods. 

FBI is an evil organization and those FBI sadists and perverts deserve
to be
kidnapped and their eyes gouged, noses and ears chopped off, forced to
eat
their own feces and drink their own piss and extra hot red chilli
powder
poured into their eyes, make them cry and scream in pain and continue
the
torture mercilessly for three yearss to do justice to this poor guy.
FBI
sadists and perverts deserve every bit of torture these animals meted
out to
this poor chap. 

Evil FBI organization deserves 10000 Tim McVeighs who should have gone
after the vertical edgar hoover building instead of the fed building
in oklahoma city. Half the worlds evil resides in edgar hoover
building in Washington DC.

Email I received from the poor chap: 

****************************************************************************
********************* 
If you are a US Govt "PROGRAMMED SLAVE and a MORON" OBSESSED with tin
foils, aluminium foils, schizo meds etc, you can BUY a FEW TONNES of
tin and aluminium foils and schizo meds and INSERT them into YOUR "US
Govt PROGRAMMED SLAVE ANUSES and PUSSIES".

Just because you all are IGNORANT MOLE BRAINED IDIOTS does not mean
every body else in the world are like YOU SHITHEADS.

Whatever I said here are 100% FACTS and even the SADISTIC, PERVERTED
FBI motherfuckers and daughterfuckers were SURPRISED how I figured out
so many things.

FBI SADISTS "punctured" my room mate's car tire in June 2004 and made
it completely useless because of ONE CASUAL (non-religious) COMMENT he
made during a conversation in our apartment. This is AS MUCH A FACT as
the fact sun rises in the east.
All you IGNORANT DUMBFUCK PROGRAMMED SLAVES who advised me to wear
tin, aluminium foils and take schizo meds have been AMUSING ME to NO
END. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....

FBI SADISTS and PERVERTS "LOVE" your type of brains cuz it would be
VERY EASY for FBI SHITHEADS to "MANIPULATE YOUR SLAVE BRAINS" and make
you MORONS "REWARD" FBI TRANSVESTITES and EUNUCHS with "MORE and MORE
POWER" for EVERY FUCKING FBI FAILURE and MEDIOCRITY.

Undercover FBI agents will attack me, ridicule me and discredit me
with
fictitious userids in response to this post and I request all readers
to completely IGNORE those MANIPULATIVE, LYING FBI PERVERTS, SADISTS
and THUGS.

Email this column to all your friends, family members, coworkers and
if you
are done, then just send it to every email id in USA and OVERSEAS you
can
find on usenet. That will DRIVE the FBI SADISTS and PERVERTS
ABSOLUTELY
CRAZY. We the POWERLESS should UNITE and MENTALLY TORTURE the
INFINITELY POWERFUL FBI SADISTS in every possible way. FBI sadists
HATE PUBLICITY and EXPOSURE and hence please do whatever you can asap.

IMAGINE a MILLION EMAILS containing this story going around the world
and
VISUALIZE how much it will DRIVE these FBI daughterfuckers CRAZY. Come
on,
we the POWERLESS can do it. 

Undercover FBI SADIST J NIcklebaker listed in the following url was
able to figure
out PRECISELY, the day I left home even though I am 8500 miles away
from US
borders and he could have done it ONLY by TRACKING ME with an
implanted
transponder chip in my body. 

10/10/04   J NIcklebaker (Undercover FBI agent monitoring my
websurfing
activities) posted anonymously using Newsguy Usenet Service Provider
in
alt.liberalminded newsgroup on 10/10/04 and THREATENED ME. 

http://groups.google.co.in/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=ckbc4c07ln%40news3.newsguy.com

You can educate yourself more about the EVIL FBI SADISTS and PERVERTED
motherfuckers by reading these websites. 

www.datafilter.com/mc 
www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5637 
www.4verichip.com/index.html 

PERVERTED FBI agents SEXUALLY ABUSED, RAPED and TORTURED ME for THREE
YEARS which is 10000 times worse than the SEXUAL ABUSE of prisoners by
Lyndie England though I am NEITHER an iraqi NOR a muslim.

If the PERVERTED FBI agents can watch me real time live attending
natures
call and taking shower and other private moments in my rest room, bed
room,
living room and kitchen and HUMILIATE, DEHUMANIZE and SEXUALLY ABUSE
me FOR THREE YEARS ILLEGALLY and AMUSE THEMSELVES, then the FBI
SADISTS and SEX PERVERTS deserve to be ruthlessly TORTURED and
BEHEADED and more.

Remember, SADISTIC FBI DID NOT FOLLOW THE RULES, so NOBODY in the
world has to follow the rules and the FBI agents SHOULD NOT have ANY
IMMUNITY and are GAME for ANYBODY and EVERYBODY. It is as simple as
that.

You can SELL this FBI NOC LIST and MAKE MILLIONS like Tom Cruise (I
know it
is a CIA NOC LIST in MI) did in Mission Impossible. 

I request all you HACKERS on usenet to HACK these undercover FBI
agents IP
addresses and trace their REAL IDENTITIES and post the info here. 

I posted this on 10/26/04 just a few days ago and used
keithm757 at yahoo.com
and keithm757 at volcanomail.com to receive emails from newsreaders but
the
SADISTIC FBI "FORCED" both "yahoo" and "volcanomail" to CHANGE THE
PASSWORDS and CLOSE my email accounts by the morning of 10/27/04.

So if you are interested in helping me, please post your responses 
(anonymously if possible) on the web itself instead of emailing me. 

Somebody on the usenet suggested that I file a complaint with the
District
Attorney about FBI HARASSMENT and MENTAL TORTURE but a civil rights
attorney by the name James Eidson (404-763-3401) and a couple of
others with a RATING of "AV" on www.martindale.com website ADVISED me
NOT TO file a complaint with US Attorneys office for reasons unknown
to me.

http://www.martindale.com/xp/Martindale/Lawyer_Locator/Search_Lawyer_Locator/search_result.xml?PG=0&STYPE=N&LNAME=Eidson&FNAME=James&FN=&CN=&CTY=&STS=11&CRY=1&LSCH=
I am NOT a conspiracy theorist and everything I mentioned here FBI
motherfuckers did to me are ABSOLUTE FACTS. Even the psychiatrist
REALIZED that
all these things I mentioned are FOR REAL and ADVISED ME to leave US. 

1) I WANT ALL OF YOU to FOCUS on the FBI SADISM, PERVERSION, SEXUAL
ABUSE and their BLATANT violation of human rights of an ordinary US
citizen.

2) I want all of you to STAND UP and ask the EVIL, PERVERTED and
SADISTIC
FBI why they have to install video devices and watch me in my rest
room,
bedroom, living room and kitchen and PSYCHO-ANALYSE me 24X7 for three
years
and TORTURE, TERRORIZE, HUMILIATE and DEHUMANIZE me. 

3) I am posting to this to all active newsgroups to EXPOSE the
"INSTITUTIONALIZED FBI SADISM, PERVERSION and their SEXUAL ABUSE of
ordinary US citizens.

SADISTIC and PERVERTED FBI has beeen MENTALLTY TORTURING, TERRORIZING
and SEXUALLY ABUSING me and BLATANTLY violating my civil rights
non-stop for three years.

Please forward and distribute this to as many senators, congressmen, 
journalists, editors, civil rights attorneys, civil rights activists, 
investigative reporters, radio talk show hosts, managers, co-workers, 
family and friends and all Americans concerned with civil liberties. 

I am not a muslim, I don't have even a single muslim friend, I am not
a
member of any religious organization, I am not a drug smuggler, I do
not
belong to any crime mafia, I did not kill anybody, I am not a spy and
I
never ever worked for any government and not even "remotely connected"
to
any government agency whatsoever, I do not have any prior criminal
record, I
am a US citizen and have been living in US for a little more than 15
yrs and
I graduated with a masters degree in computers from a US university
more
than a decade ago. I am even willing to take "ANY NO.OF POLYGRAPH
TESTS" to
prove whatever I said is true and a fact, about my background. 

FBI has been MENTALLY TORTURING me with 24X7 surveillance for the last
three
years inside and outside my apartment with video surveillance devices
and
motion sensors around my apartment, my phone has been tapped, my web
surfing
is being monitored all the time for the last three years, my emails
are
being monitored, gps vehicle tracking devices and voice amplification 
devices have been placed in my car and undercover FBI agents have
followed
me to restaurants, grocery stores, malls, movie theatres, banks and
even
barber shops etc and forced me to live like an animal and a virtual
prisoner
for three years. FBI has interfered in my personal life for no reason
and
jeopardized my job opportunities. FBI is obsessed with me and has
ruined,
destroyed and wrecked my life for the last three years and destroyed
my
physical and mental health. 

The SADISTIC FBI agents are NOT charging me, NOT letting me find a
job, NOT
letting me have a normal life, NOT letting me have even an IOTA of
PRIVACY
and mentally TORTURING and TERRORIZING me with 24X7 surveillance,
making
2000 UNSOLICITED phone calls to my unlisted phone#s, entering my
apartment
ILLEGALLY and STEALING personal belongings when I am not home,
watching me
real time live with video surveillance devices installed in my
bedroom,
living room, kitchen and DISGUSTINGLY even in my rest room and
humiliating
and dehumanizing me and BLATANTLY violating my civil rights and 
constitutional right to privacy and ABUSING the "DRACONIAN" PATRIOT
ACT.

The PERVERTED FBI "ILLEGALLY" installed tens of audio and video
surveillance
devices in my apartment, watching me NAKED, REAL TIME LIVE 24X7 even
in my
rest room taking shower, psychoanalyzing each and every move, each and
every
word I said, each and every second of my life, each and every blink of
my
eyes and each and every comment I posted on the web. 

Is there a LIMIT to FBI Sadism and Perversion ?? 

I spoke to at least 200 attorneys in both Michigan and Georgia for
legal
help but only about two or three attorneys were willing to help me but
asked
me to show physical proof of either gps or video surveillance devices.
I did
a lot of research and found a couple of private investigators (who
were
ex-FBI agents) more importantly who are knowledgeable about the latest
"counter surveillance technologies" but they also DECLINED to help me
on
ONE PRETEXT or the OTHER even though I was willing to pay for their 
services. 

I told these two very HIGHLY QUALIFIED and KNOWLEDGEABLE private 
investigators Niles (Eagle services 866-691-7985) and another PI,
Charles
Middlestadt (404-252-5322) of ISC Worldwide Inc in the Atlanta area
who are
capable of finding the gps vehicle tracking devices in my car, that I
am NOT
A MUSLIM and they have NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT ME and even offered them
to go through my attorney and help me but still THEY DECLINED to help
me OUT OF FEAR that I might be a muslim.

Another Private Investigator by the name John Weeks (800-398-2775 or 
770-220-1912) of Investigative Solutions www.invsol.com in Atlanta
told me
that it would be IMPOSSIBLE to find out these video, audio and gps 
surveillance devices if the GOVERNMENT (FBI) is doing it. I even went
to
their office personally and spoke with the founder of www.invsol.com
Mr.
Harold Copus whose picture is shown on the website and Mr John Weeks. 

And eventually I was forced to spend a $1000 as fees out of sheer 
desperation knowing fully well that the Private Investigator I hired
has at
best AVERAGE counter surveillance skills to sweep my car for gps
vehicle
tracking devices and he did a LOUSY JOB and found nothing, as I
expected.

Some attorneys I consulted told me in very CLEAR TERMS that FBI agents
LIE,
MANIPULATE, CHEAT and are VERY UNETHICAL in their MEANS and METHODS.
The attorneys also told me that in order for me to file a civil
lawsuit against
the FBI, I have to PROVE the existence of surveillance devices and
also the
MENTAL TORTURE, the SEXUAL ABUSE and TERRORISM which will be quite a
tall order for me to do without the help of willing attorneys and
helpful private
investigators and EVEN THEN the FBI sadists would have removed all
those
surveillance devices by the time the private investigators came to
sweep my
apartment for those devices after a couple of days since the FBI is 
listening to each and every goddamn word that came out of my mouth
whether
it be in my apartment or when I was speaking to these PI's and
attorneys
from pay phones or cell phones. 

You can investigate these undercover FBI agents yourself and find out
the
truth. Remember, some times vehicles are registered in parents or
spouses
names and also FBI uses fictitious front companies to employ their 
undercover agents. 

If any of you think, all these things are my paranoid delusions, I
CHALLENGE
you to send an email to undercover FBI agent Frank Spodek
(sfrank9 at aol.com)
OR call Kathleen Sue Taylor OR Maddelina Wahl OR Mediha Krijestorac or
Janet
Lorna Brown or the other FBI agents I listed at their phone numbers
and
confirm it with those FBI PERVERTED SADISTS themselves. 

Undercover FBI agents who followed me (partial list) 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

313-354-7380  Internal unlisted FBI# in Detroit office from which FBI 
agents called and harassed me at home "in 2001"

BOGEY 27 (MI) Registered to Maddelina C Wahl, 28087 Hickory Dr, 
Farmington.Hills MI 38331, ph: 248-324-1527, Caucasian Female, black
car,
Charter One bank, 3:00 pm, 12/20/03 

This undercover FBI agent who followed me was a 30 yr old Caucasian
Female
to Charter One bank on W.12 Mile Road, Farmington Hills, MI in veh
plate #
BOGEY 27, ph:248-324-1527 

PPL 587 (MI) Registered to Kathleen Sue Taylor, African American 
female, 29390 Bermuda Ln,Southfield, MI 48034, ph: 248-356-1946. 

This undercover FBI agent who followed me was a 27yr old African
American
female in MI veh plate# PPL 587 in July 2002 in a CVS Pharmacy on W.12
Mile
Rd, Southfield, MI 

XRA 155 (MI) Registered to Mediha Krijestorac, Black car, 30408 
Shiawasee Rd, Farmington MI 48336, ph:248-477-9161, White Male,
Restaurant,
9:00pm, 12/12/03 

This undercover FBI agent who followed me was a 20-22 yr old Caucasian
Male
in veh plate # XRA 155 to a restaurant on Grand River Ave in
Farmington
Hills, MI at 9:00 pm on 12/12/03. 

UFX 210 (MI) Registered to Kevin Miller, White SUV, 5871 Seneca St, 
Detroit, 48213, July 2002, 313-571-1095 #disconnected. 

This undercover FBI agent followed me in July 2002 at around 10:00 pm
on
Northwestern highway in bloomfield hills, MI. 

5915CR (MI) Registered to Kenneth Allen, Red pickup truck, 18440 Alta 
Vista Dr, Southfield MI 48075 in Dec 2002. 

This FBI undercover agent followed me in a red pickup truck in an
apartment
complex was a 27-33 yr old Caucasian male in veh plate# 5915 CR in Dec
2002.

0978 JD (MI) Registered to Janet Lorna Brown, White Chevy, 20978
Delaware
St, Southfield MI 48034 in 2002, ph# 248-350-2599 

This FBI agent followed me in a white chevy once on Telegraph road on 
3/14/02 and on a different occasion on 8 Mile Rd on 4/4/02 when I went
for
an oil change. 

8CK U33 (MI) Registered to Doris Evelyn Person, 3611 S.Annabelle St, 
Detroit 48217, 313-388-5186 

The African American female undercover FBI agent who followed me in MI
veh
plate# 8CK U33 was about 20 yrs old and might be a daughter of the
female
owner of this car and this happened in early Fall of 2002. 

073 D1U (MI) Registered to Scott Alan Smith, 7536 Gary St, Westland MI
48185 

This 25 yr old caucasian male undercover FBI agent about 25 yrs old
followed
me near my apartment in the fall of 2002. phone# 734-261-1587 in fall
of
2002 (Disconnected) 

LQE 620 (MI) SUV, Registered to Samuel Pilato, 40460 Cove ct,
Plymouth,
MI 40460  Ph# 734-420-0521, 3/14/02 11:30AM 

This caucasian undercover FBI agent about 35yrs old followed me to a
library
in the spring of 2002 on Telegraph Rd, Southfield, MI 

EBAY Ebay Id: SpodekModek, sfrank9 at aol.com --> email Id of Frank 
Spodek - Undercover FBI Agent who monitored my Websurfing activities. 

You can do a quick investigative test by emailing to sfrank9 at aol.com
and
asking Frank if he is an undercover FBI agent and I am absolutely
positive
he WONT respond and DENY he is an FBI agent because then it will be a
LIE.
With this test you can conclude Frank Spodek is indeed an undercover
FBI
agent. 

EBAY Ebay Id: cbsan, cidneybetz at aol.com, email Id of Cidney 
Betz - Undercover FBI agent who monitored my websurfing activities in
2002.

Possible old phone numbers of Cidney Betz: 407-370-3043 or
352-291-2112 in
the year 2002. 

351 FTK (GA) Maroon Car, 7/28/04, 6:00 pm, 20ish Caucasian Male and 
Female, Metro Atlanta 

131 YBP (GA) 35 yr old Caucasian Male, Silver colored car, 7/22/04,
10:45
pm, Hotel, Metro Atlanta 

APZ 7647 (GA) 35 yr old Caucasian Male, Truck, 5/25/04, 3:00pm,
Ridgeview
Hospital, Metro Atlanta 

YUU 243 (GA) Pickup truck, Caucasian male, 8/25/04, 4:40pm, Holcrombe 
Bridge Rd, Metro Altanta 

AQG 2185 (GA) 27 yr old Caucasian Female, Red Cherokee, 5/21/04, 11
AM,
Pep Boys, Cobb Parkway, Metro Atlanta 

WPS 578 (GA) SUV, One Caucasian Male and one female, 3/8/04, 8:30pm, 
Apartment Complex 

Coipel 770-577-0526 (5/2/04, 5:29pm), 4337 Lodgeview pl, 
Douglasville, GA 
30315. undercover FBI agent in metro Altanta area. 

Ronnie Hill 678-755-2034 in June 2004 - Possibly an FBI agent 

Please allow three years plus or minus to the ages of the undercover
FBI
agents I mentioned here. 

2/29/04 Undercover FBI agent with a fictitious name "Agent Johnson" 
and IP address 81.132.210.89 said on internet that they are using me
as a
training target and have got a bet on as to when I'll do something
really
stupid and also they are taking bets on what it will be in
alt.astrology
Usenet newsgroup on 2/29/04. This FBI agent from Michigan field office
might
have posted it anonymously and hence the IP address might be a fake
one. Url
for Agent Johnson's post follows. 

http://groups.google.co.in/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=c1u06b%24780%241%40titan.btinternet.com

3/21/04 Undercover FBI agent by some fictitious internet name "THOR" 
and email Id: funk_a_del_ic2000 at yahoo.com and IP address 24.94.125.55
in the
Washington DC area monitored my web surfing activities and posted on 
rec.sport.cricket Usenet news group. 

10/10/04 J NIcklebaker (Undercover FBI agent monitoring my websurfing 
activities) posted anonymously using Newsguy Usenet Service Provider
in
alt.liberalminded newsgroup and THREATENED ME. 

http://groups.google.co.in/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=ckbc4c07ln%40news3.newsguy.com

10/6/04 Leonard (Undercover FBI agent monitoring my websurfing 
activities) with real IP address 24.209.79.66 (This IP address can be 
hacked) posted in rec.audio.car newsgroup 

http://groups.google.co.in/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=263696fd.0410060414.319fd404%40posting.google.com

10/15/04 Els (Undercover FBI agent "Els" monitoring my websurfing 
activities) with probably fake IP address 82.169.229.173 posted in
alt.test
newsgroup 

http://groups.google.co.in/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=416fff7f%240%2444105%245fc3050%40dreader2.news.tiscali.nl

I am absolutely confident all the above mentioned people are
undercover FBI
agents GUARANTEED. You can investigate them yourself and find out the
truth.

I request all you HACKERS on usenet to HACK these undercover FBI
agents' IP
addresses and trace their real REAL IDENTITIES and post the info here.

FBI who is supposed to catch terrorists are WASTING humongous amount
of tax
payers money to ruin, wreck and destroy ordinary peoples lives and are
MORE
INTERESTED and spent three years to tell me how SMART and INFINITELY 
POWERFUL they are compared to me. 

FBI has even been eavesdropping, monitoring and recording my
conversations
with attorneys from pay phones when I was looking to hire an attorney
to get
help with this FBIs harassment, dehumanization, humiliation and mental
torture. 

FBI agents have been entering my apartment regularly and torturing me
by
doing whatever they want because they know I am taking medication that
puts
me to sleep and I won't wake up until the next morning until the drug
effect
goes away. 

FBI has forced Google or used some technology at their disposal to
cancel
some of my comments from getting posted on INTERNET newsgroups
misc.legal,
trial.misc.legal from a library in Farmington Hills, MI and denied and
VIOLATED my right to FREEDOM OF SPEECH in 11/03 or 12/03. 

I moved in with another person (who advertised on a website for a room
mate)
on 5/24/04 and I went out in his car on the night of 5/25/04 and the
next
morning 5/26/04, at 9:30am the SADISTIC FBI called me and made this
phone#
678-560-1322 and the caller name "LOOKING FOR YOU" appear on my caller
id to
tell me, "Oh we were LOOKING for you last night, we did not know where
you
were because you went out in your room mates car". The sadistic and 
perverted FBI "ILLEGALLY" installed gps vehicle tracking devices in my
room
mates car the next day to TRACK ME, even though my room mate has
nothing to
do with me and we were COMPLETE STRANGERS until the previous day. 

The same day on 5/26/04 evening, I went out in my car and came back
around
7:45 pm, parked my car in the parking lot and on the way I said "nice
car"
to my neighbor who was cleaning his car, to which he replied "thanks".
Within a few minutes at 8:44 pm, the SADISTIC FBI called and made
phone#
770-690-8489 with caller name "NEIGHBOR OUTREACH" appear on my caller
id to
tell me, "Oh we have seen and heard what you said to your neighbor in
the
parking lot". The FBI was able to see and hear my conversation because
they
installed VIDEO and AUDIO surveillance devices around my apartment. 

When I went to Best Buy in Feb 2002 to buy a cell phone, two caucasian
FBI
agents (possibly husband and wife) followed me into the store and
observed
me from a very close range and sent me a marketing fax for cell phones
to my
UNLISTED phone# THAT SAME EVENING to tell me that the SADISTIC FBI
were
WATCHING ME even in retail stores. 

SADISTIC FBI agents even PUNCTURED my room mates car tire and made it 
unusable and useless in June 2004 because of some casual NON-RELIGIOUS
comments he made the previous day in our apartment. You might think
this is
crazy stuff, but I know it for a FACT that FBI SADISTIC MOTHERFUCKERS 
punctured my room mate's car tire INTENTIONALLY for the casual
comments he
made the previous day. 

FBI agents have terrorized me by calling my current unlisted phone#
atleast
200 times in a month and a half in July and August 2004, intentionally
asking for Roberto Fernandez (last name changed), knowing fully well
that
nobody by the name Roberto Fernandez lived in my apartment. 

I called undercover FBI agent, Kathleen Sue Taylor on 4/1/04 and told
her I
do not want to receive any HARASSING UNSOLICITED phone calls from the
FBI
and from next day onwards, the FBI had made my unlisted phone# appear
on
caller id of ordinary american people multiple # of times, where the
owners
of those phone#s listed below got upset and called me and left abusive
messages in my answering machine. 

The owners of these phone numbers listed below called and asked me why
I was
calling them repeatedly, even though I DON'T KNOW who they are and I
NEVER
called them even once. 
703-580-8992 4/2/04 Dale City, VA 
540-309-1226 4/3/04 Roanoke VA 
434-525-1448 4/3/04 Lynchburg, VA 
757-404-1076 4/4/04 Harry Folsom left me an abusive message 
703-820-6695 4/4/04 DC Suburb, VA 
770-966-5236 4/4/04 Cooper P D, Woman left me an abusive 
message 
757-483-0583 4/7/04 Norfolk, VA 
540-463-7459 4/7/04 Lexington VA 
770-253-6297 4/8/04 Hammond Stinson 
703-541-0950 4/9/04 DC Suburb, VA 

FBI pretended to be me and made all these phone calls themselves from
the
FBI head office in Washington DC to those ordinary Americans and made
my
unlisted phone# appear on their phone caller ids, as if I am calling
them.

Please speak to, ADVISE and ENCOURAGE these people above to file
lawsuits
against the US government and FBI for violating their privacy and for
phone
harassment. 

(If you are RICH, you can use a PRIVATE EYE to get the PHONE CALL
LISTS of
these numbers above for the first 15 days of April 2004 and find a
COMMON
PHONE# among the lists on the SPECIFIC DAYS mentioned above to zero in
on
the unlisted phone#) 

FBI agents have destroyed my livelihood by assasinating my character
with
potential employers by making anonymous calls to them when I sent
resumes
since FBI is privy to all the email addresses and phone numbers of the
recruiters and potential employers. I do NOT think this is an
EXCEPTION and
imagine how many ordinary Americans have been suffering this "FBI
SADISM for
years" without knowing it. 

Once a Caucasian male FBI agent in a Comcast van threatened to ram
into my
car from behind and came within half an inch of hitting me from behind
even
though there was no traffic altercation between us and there is no
traffica
at all on a city street in Southfield (Detroit metro area) in Feb
2002.

Two FBI agents once shouted at me and abused me verbally in a Sports 
Authority store parking lot approximately around Feb 2002 in Livonia,
MI.

FBI ILLEGALLY stole passwords of all my email and internet accounts
with the
help of bugs installed on my computer. 

FBI agents have followed me even when I went to see a doctor. There
was one
Caucasian FBI agent in a white truck with GA license plate APZ 7647 on
5/24/04, waiting for me in a truck in Ridgeview hospital parking lot 
listening to the conversation I was having with the doctor, using
voice
amplification devices. 

I am currently living in a two bedroom apartment sharing it with
another
person and the FBI sadists made anonymous calls to the apartment
management
office with fictitious complaints and tried to get me evicted from the
apartment in July 2004. 

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home in May
2004,
stole a "yellow highlighter" and after I moved to a different Atlanta 
suburbs a month later entered my apartment again when I was not home
and
placed the "yellow highlighter" on the carpet in the middle of my
bedroom by
the time I came back from watching Fahrenheit 9/11 movie on 6/27/04.
The FBI
knew that I went to watch Fahrenheit 9/11 movie on 6/27/04 because
they were
watching me looking for directions and movie times on the internet and
also
with the help of gps vehicle tracking devices in my car. 

I spoke to an attorney from a pay phone on 6/24/04 and during the 
conversation I asked the attorney if we can get a court order to force
the
Internet Service Provider to reveal if my internet web surfing is
being
monitored by the FBI and lo and behold my internet account
MYSTERIOUSLY
DISAPPEARED from the ISP computers on 6/25/04. On inquiry my ISP told
me
somebody called and cancelled my internet account the previous day,
which I
never did. 

My room mate goes to work around 6 AM and on the night of 7/23/04 I
pasted a
8.5 X 11 page note on the inside of the apartment entrance door for my
room
mate to wake me up when he leaves so I can bolt the hotel lock from
inside
and go back to sleep. My room mate woke me up like I requested and I
bolted
the hotel lock from inside of my apartment and went back to sleep at 6
AM on
the morning of 7/24/04. The sadistic FBI agents STILL ENTERED my
second
floor apartment while I was asleep between 6:00 AM and 10:00 AM on
7/24/04
and REMOVED the 8.5X11 inch page pasted note on the inside of entrance
door
and LEFT IT on the ENTERTAINMENT CENTER in the living room just to
TORTURE
ME mentally and TERRORIZE me "We entered your apartment even when you
locked
the hotel lock bolt and did this, but what can you do ?" 

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment on the night of 8/1/04 when
I was
asleep and stole prepaid calling card pin numbers from my trouser
pockets.
One of the prepaid calling cards in my trouser pocket was called "I 
Conexion" and the FBI next day called me on 8/2/04 and made the number
770-242-8775 with caller name "Internet Conexion" appear on my caller
id to
TERRORIZE me, that they entered my apartment the previous night and
stole
the prepaid calling numbers from my trouser pocket. The phone# above
is NOT
an FBI# but some other company. 

To protect myself from these SADISTIC FBI agents entering into my
apartment
and stealing things when I am asleep, I locked my bedroom door from
the
inside and put a small heavy box and a 19 inch TV on top of the box
against
the bed room door on the night of 8/7/04 so if the FBI agents try to
open my
bedroom door, the TV will fall off the box at the slightest movement
of the
door, make a big sound and wake me up. On the morning of 8/8/04 around
9:00
AM I woke up to a giant thudding sound of the TV falling on the floor
from
the box and FBI agents speeding away by the time I realized what
happened.
FBI agents entered my apartment and opened my locked bedroom and
pushed the
door at 9:00 AM so hard, they pushed the box a good two feet away from
the
door. The FBI SADISTS are even willing to break my 19 inch TV to
TORTURE and
TERRORIZE me. 

FBI agents ILLEGALLY CHANGED three passwords (even though I used
Kinkos to
keep my PASSWORDS PRIVATE) of my three email ids that I was using to
send
this document to investigative reporters on www.ire.org between
8/26/04 and 8/28/04 to
"PREVENT ME" from EXPOSING their SADISM, PERVERSION, TERRORISM, SEXUAL
ABUSE and MENTAL TORTURE, by either ILLEGALLY installing key logging
software on kinkos computers or by some other ILLEGAL MEANS unknown to
me. So I created brand new email ids and sent this document and god
knows when the SADISTIC FBI will change the passwords of my NEW email
ids.

SADISTIC FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment while I was taking
SHOWER around 1:00pm and removed a shaving set scissors from the tote
bag pocket in
my bedroom and placed it on the iron board in my bedroom. FBI was able
to
EXECUTE this OPERATION WHILE I WAS TAKING SHOWER because they were
watching me taking shower "real time live" with video devices
installed in my "bathroom" and the rest of my apartment.

To escape this FBI SADISM, I went and slept in an acquaintance's
apartment
in the first week of September 2004 and the SADISTIC FBI agents still
came
and entered that apartment, installed video surveillance devices in
the
acquaintance's apartment and drew a curvy line with a knife on the
black
colored apartment door of the acquaintance to TERRORIZE me. 

Sadistic FBI agents "reacted" to EACH and EVERY word that came out of
my
mouth for the last three years by making 2000 UNSOLICITED HARASSING
phone
calls at my unlisted private phone numbers. I know about registering
with no call
list websites but FBI PERVERTS and SADISTS just didn't care. 

To all of you who are gonna advise me to wear tinfoil or take drugs
for
schizophrenic paranoia, the SADISTIC FBI wants all of you to think
exactly
that way so they can CONTINUE to carry on their PERVERSE SADISM on
ordinary
american citizens and MISDIRECT and PROGRAM all of the 290 mil
american
brains to treat the EVIL, SADISTIC, PERVERTED and DICTATORIAL FBI
TERRORISTS like Gods.

By now, you should have figured out the gist of what and how the FBI
SADISTS
and PERVERTS are TORTURING, TERRORIZING and SEXUALLY ABUSING me with
their INFINITE POWER. You can read the rest of FBI SADISM below if you
have time.

****************************************************************************
I rented a car on 7/14/04, bought a cell phone and stayed in a hotel
that
night and by next morning 7/15/04, the FBI has figured out where I was
staying and wire tapped my cell phone and tracked me by placing gps
vehicle
tracking devices even in the rental car. 

FBI agents ILLGEALLY entered my apartment when I was not home on
7/16/04 and
LOCKED the bathroom door from inside, by the time I came back in the 
evening. 
FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home between 
7/15/04 and 7/18/04 and logged on to my computer and REMOVED a stock
list
from my Yahoo account. 

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home on
7/18/04 in
the morning and turned the Air Conditioner "ON" intentionally by the
time I
came back to TORTURE me. 

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment on 7/18/04 when I was not
home and
placed a razor blade and a nickel (which they STOLE from my apartment
in
Marietta in May 2004) and put it in a plastic bag to TAUNT ME to say
WHAT
CAN YOU DO ? 

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment in the early hours of
7/22/04
(while I was still sleeping in bed) and opened a tote bag I kept next
to the
pillow and unzipped a small bag (zip which I closed the previous
night)
inside, just to TERRORIZE ME as if to say, we can and will do anything
to
you and you can't do anything to us because we FBI are GODS. 

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home on
7/22/04
during the day time and placed the TV remote this time hanging on the
edge
of the bed to TERRORIZE me that they entered my apartment. 

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment sometimes when I was not
home,
pretending to be Wall Street Journal delivery personnel and delivered 
sometimes MUTIPLE copies of the Journal on the same day and also
sometimes
delivered multiple chinese restaurant take out menus to avoid the
neighbors
noticing and suspecting them. 

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home in the
evening
on 7/24/04 and again opened the tote bag and unzipped a small bag
which is
inside the tote bag and also STOLE a one time use Kodak camera from my
bedroom which I bought on 7/23/04 in Wal Mart. 

FBI agents have REGULARLY entered my apartment ILLEGALLY with laptops
when I
was not home and copied information from my computer and floppy disks
and
messed them up. 

Sadistic FBI agents called me at least 30 times repeatedly in the
space of
an hour and a half between 7:00 and 8:30 pm on 7/27/04 and asked for
Roberto
Fernandez knowing fully well that nobody by that name lived in my
apartment
and infact said "You are so funny" and made WEIRD SOUNDS like aye,
uye, ick,
ihe etc while watching me real time live all the time with the video 
surveillance devices installed in the ceiling of my bedroom when I
answered
the phone. 

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment while I was asleep on 8/2/04
night
even though the hotel lock was bolted from inside, and placed the tv
remote
face down on the end table of my bedroom, folded a prepaid calling
card in
my trouser pocket and formed a crease on the card, removed a library
map
from the file folder (which was inside a tote bag) and placed it
outside the
file folder and unzipped the back pocket of the tote bag half way down
and
left it there to torture me. 

FBI agents have been alerting the security departments of WalMart,
Best Buy,
JC Penney stores etc with fictitious complaints when I went there for 
shopping, so the security cameras in those stores are constantly
focused on
me and watching me while I was in those stores. 

I rented a car on 8/5/04 and stayed in a hotel to get some privacy and
the
sadistic FBI agents still tracked me down that night and left the
rental car
doors unlocked by next morning on 8/6/04. 

I changed the car rented the previous day on 8/6/04 and traveled a
couple of
hours on a highway, took an exit, parked my car in a strip mall
parking lot
and spent about 20 minutes in a retail store and by the time I got
back to
the car, FBI agents followed me and put two quarters on a plastic bag 
containing donuts in the back seat of the car just to taunt and
terrorize me
they are still following me even when I rented a car and drove out of
the
city. 

FBI agents STOLE a pilot pen pack (which I bought from CVS Pharmacy on
8/8/04) from my car on the night of 8/8/04 and entered my apartment on
8/9/04 when I was not home from 11 AM - 12 noon and placed the pilot
pen
pack under a chair on the carpet in the living room to torture me. 

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment on 8/10/04 between 1:00pm
and 1:15
pm (just 15 min) when I went to Publix and turned the TV "On" in my
bedroom
by the time I came back to mentally torture me. 

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment even when the hotel lock was
bolted from inside in the early hours of 8/16/04 while I was asleep
and
removed the middle row donuts in a 12 pack krispy kreme donut box in
the
refrigerator and placed them in the empty left row and placed the
concord
grape jelly bottle horizontally in the refrigerator and unplugged the
tv
cable from the cable outlet in my bedroom to TORTURE me that they are
still
entering my apartment anytime they want at their will. 

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment while I was asleep in the
early
hours of 8/20/04 even when I put a coffee table against the apartment 
entrance door and a small heavy box and a 19in TV against my bedroom
door
from the inside and searched the locked tote bag and unzipped the back
pocket of the tote bag half way down and left it there to TERRORIZE ME
that
they are still entering my apartment no matter what precautions I
take.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment on 8/22/04 around 7:30pm
while I
was taking a nap and turned the Air Conditioner "ON" to TAUNT me that
they
were entering my apartment EVEN WHEN I WAS still in my apartment. 

FBI agents stole a Gillette disposable razor on the night of 8/25/04
from my
duffel bag and placed it between the drivers seat and driver side door
near
the trunk opening lever of my car. 

FBI agents ILLEGALLY opened the rental car I rented, in a hotel
premises on
the night of 8/27/04 and removed the cup holder and placed it infront
of the
parking brake of the car to HARASS ME that they are still following me
even
when I rented a car and stayed in a hotel. 

FBI agents ILLEGALLY even tapped MetroPCS cell phone numbers
instantaneously
as soon as I bought them on the same day. 

SADISTIC FBI agents AMUSED themselves by turning my bedroom table lamp
in my
bedroom, ON and OFF by using remote control devices, sometimes while I
was
browsing the web. 

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered the hotel rooms even when locked from
inside
where I stayed in August and September and installed video
surveillance
devices and moved things around from the tote bag's zipped side pocket
into
the tote bag to TERRORIZE me that they will INVADE my privacy and
MENTALLY
TORTURE me even when I slept in hotel rooms. 

Sometimes when I spoke to my roommate in non-English language, the 
psycho-analysis OBSESSED SADISTIC FBI agents called me on the phone 
immediately and said "komo-isthaaaa" in a SARCASTIC way and asked for 
Roberto Fernandez knowing fully well that nobody by that name lived in
my
apartment.


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Nov 17 16:28:35 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:28:35 -0500
Subject: thread, threading; how to kill a thread?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6508.1100724708.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <m37jokwiqj.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
	<mailman.6508.1100724708.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cngfsv$jig$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Ian Bicking wrote:
> I might reiterate this request, but knowing the standard answer (you 
> can't) -- what if I *really* want to?  

It looks to me sort of as if you are actually reiterating the
request above... but then going ahead and answering your own
question.  Is that what happened here?  Because if it isn't,
I'm not sure what other answer one could give....

> In situations when a thread 
> becomes wedged, I don't know a way to get out of it.  I don't even know 
> a way to end the process elegantly, instead I have to kill -9 the process.
> 
> Even if it messes things up and I have to restart the process at the 
> soonest possible time to clean up the problems, it would be nice to be 
> able to exit the process.  As it is, the only robust way to deal with 
> the situation is to have a separate process that (at the original 
> process's request) will kill it, an assisted-suicide style.  That's 
> awkward to handle.
> 
> This is an issue with long-running threaded servers (like Webware or 
> even Zope), where even in the face of bugs it's important to keep the 
> service up.


From james at foomatic.net  Wed Nov 10 21:56:13 2004
From: james at foomatic.net (James Davies)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:56:13 +1000
Subject: Sorting email addresses by domain
References: <mailman.6250.1100138329.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4192d4e4$0$6549$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Split the email addresses on the '@', and store the domain in the key of a
dictionary, then sort the keys.

i.e. 
data = {}
for email in emails:
  (user, domain) = email.split('@')
  data[domain] = email
  keys = data.keys()
  keys.sort()
  return [data[x] for x in keys]


still not very elegant (would be nicer if list.sort() returned rather than
mutated the list).

Typed from memory, not checked. Possibly major errors in it :p

     

Peter Murray wrote:

> Hi! I hope someone can assist me, I have been using Python for a year or
> two, but I am not a programmer and only use it occasionally for small
> issues or just for fun. So I perhaps do not have the right 'mindset' to
> always see the answer to a problem.
> 
> Anyway, I have a list of email address and I want to sort them by domain.
> List.sort() wont work as this looks at the start of each address only. So
> the answer I have come up with is to split each email address around the
> "@", swap the position of the name and domain, build a new list with these
> and then sort this. Then switch positions back, and join with an "@". It
> works, but it seems a little inelegant. Is there a better, or easier way
> to do this?
> 
> Code is below. Thanks for any comments!
> 
> Pete.
> 
> def sortlist(addresslist):
>     l1 = []
>     for i in addresslist:
>         temp = i.split("@")
>         temp[0], temp[1] = temp[1], temp[0]
>         l1.append(temp)
>     l1.sort()
>     l2 = []
>     for i in l1:
> i[0], i[1] = i[1], i[0]
> temp = "@".join(i)
> l2.append(temp)
>     return l2



From finite.automaton at gmail.com  Tue Nov 16 16:17:36 2004
From: finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 13:17:36 -0800
Subject: Strange behaviour
References: <20041116101608.3cdbbbbb.secchi@sssup.it>
Message-ID: <4b39d922.0411161317.25e6f8d1@posting.google.com>

> Any idea about the origin of this problem?

My setup is identical except with Xeons instead of Opterons, and I get
the expected result with Numeric 23.1.  This indicates that it's
either a 64-bit bug with Numeric 23.1 (which looks like it's been
fixed in your latest-cvs test), or the ebuild is compiling wrong.  The
latter seems unlikely, but building 23.1 from the tarball instead of
emerging it, and then running your test again, would be decisive.


From roy at panix.com  Sat Nov  6 22:07:33 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 22:07:33 -0500
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<mailman.5999.1099743679.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418D61D3.3040904@acm.org>
	<mailman.6032.1099794432.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-F37F78.22073306112004@reader1.panix.com>

Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
> And I have certainly written some extremely poorly optimized
> Python programs that positively *crawled*.

My guess is the poor performance had nothing to do with the language you 
wrote it in, and everything to do with the algorithms you used.

Local optimizations rarely gets you more than a factor of 2 improvement.  
Choice of language (at least within the same general catagory such as 
comparing one native compiled language to another, or one virtual 
machine language to another) probably has a somewhat broader range, but 
still a factor of 10 would be quite surprising.

To get really bad performance, you need to pick the wrong algorithm.  A 
project I worked on a while ago had a bit of quadratic behavior in it 
when dealing with files in a directory.  Most of our customers dealt 
with file sets in the 100's.  One customer had 50,000 files.  Going 
from, say, 500 to 50,000 is a 100-fold increase in N, and gave a 
10,000-fold increase in execution time.


From mwm at mired.org  Fri Nov 19 11:50:17 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:50:17 -0600
Subject: Rationals?
References: <x73bz7na6r.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<mailman.6526.1100749612.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<x7y8gzkpii.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<mailman.6570.1100822468.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncprssv.5v3.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <x7actdlr5i.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> writes:

> Tim Peters <tim.peters at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  If you want to use rationals in Python, gmpy is a fine way to do it
>>  today.
>
> I would say gmpy (or something like it, eg mxNumber) should be added
> to the standard library.
>
> I'm personally more interested in the fixed point numbers rather than
> the rationals, and having played with various implementations of that
> concept recently, I can say that the new decimal module is by far the
> slowest, and gmpy is by far the fastest.
>
> Eg simplistic program to calculate 1000 decimal places of e :-
>
> gmpy.mpf            0.00271s
> FixedPointNcw.py    0.0118s (FixedPoint.py with simple mod for * by int)
> FixedPoint.py       0.358s
> decimal          1546.9s
>
> People are going to come new to Python and see the decimal type and
> think - oh this looks ideal for high precision calculations, then get
> rather a shock!

Possibly the documentation for the decimal modules (and any rational
module) should mention this, and provide a pointer to gmpy?

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From dr_burrito at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  1 13:48:01 2004
From: dr_burrito at yahoo.com (Fazan)
Date: 1 Nov 2004 10:48:01 -0800
Subject: problem querying WMI in a background thread
Message-ID: <37f621d3.0411011048.534cbe29@posting.google.com>

I'm using Tim Golden's WMI implementation
(http://tgolden.sc.sabren.com/python/wmi.html) version 0.6 along with
pywin32 build 202.  I'm able to successfully query WMI in the main
thread but not in a separate thread.

Here's a little snippet of sample code that fails for me:
----
import thread, threading, wmi

def wmiTest(c, callee):
    print "callee: " + callee
    processList = c.Win32_Process()
    print "num processes: %d" % len(processList)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    c = wmi.WMI()
    # invoke WMI in the main thread
    wmiTest(c, "main thread")

    # invoke WMI in a separate thread
    thread.start_new_thread(wmiTest, (c, "new thread", ))
    threading.Event().wait(2)
----

And here's the output:
----
callee: main thread
num processes: 57
callee: new thread
Unhandled exception in thread started by <function wmiTest at
0x009F7E30>
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test.py", line 5, in wmiTest
    processList = c.Win32_Process()
  File "C:\svn\project\tool\wmi\0.6\wmi.py", line 404, in __call__
    return self.wmi.query (wql)
  File "C:\svn\project\tool\wmi\0.6\wmi.py", line 583, in query
    raise WMI_EXCEPTIONS.get (hresult, x_wmi (hresult))
wmi.x_wmi: -2147352567
----

Notice that calling wmiTest() from the main thread works and the list
of Win32_Process objects is returned.  Calling it using
thread.start_new_thread() causes an exception to be thrown.  I've also
tried instantiating the WMI object inside wmiTest() instead of passing
it in as a parameter; this also fails but with a different exception.

Has anyone seen this type of problem before?  TIA


From bsmith at aon.at  Wed Nov 17 16:43:22 2004
From: bsmith at aon.at (bsmith)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:43:22 +0100
Subject: Tkinter and Graphics
References: <10pf6ersh138jbe@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.17.21.43.22.213910@aon.at>

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:46:27 -0800, Andrew wrote:

> Hi I was wondering if there is anyway in Tkinter to create GUIs using 
> Graphics, like windows media player or other tools like that
> 
> basically so the interface wouldn't be your standard interface
> 
> any ideas, links to tutorials, or examples
> 
> is appreciated
> 
> Cheers

Highly recommended: _Python and Tkinter Programming_ by John E. Grayson,
if you can find a copy.  (It's out of stock on Manning's site and they
don't offer it in Electronic form.)

	http://www.manning.com/grayson

Section 8.7 ("Image Maps"), where the author describes building a GUI that
looks like a TI-82, by using an image of same as the basis for the
interface seems like it could be relevant. 

Chapter 9 ("Panels and Machines") also seems like it could be of help to
you.  It describes building a GUI modeled on the front panel of an actual
device.  It also contains a nice front-end for a digital multimeter with a
rotating knob for setting the current range.

Perhaps you can find a copy on amazon, ebay or a brick-and-mortar store
with slow turn-over.

// Ben




From Anders+news at Arnholm.nu  Fri Nov 19 09:05:32 2004
From: Anders+news at Arnholm.nu (Anders Arnholm)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:05:32 +0100
Subject: .pyc files...
References: <E1CTDp7-00050j-00@galvatron.kickingdragon.com>
	<mailman.6343.1100420001.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<x74qjsnj1o.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<slrncpkha7.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
Message-ID: <slrncprvdb.8ks.Anders+news@tika.arnholm.se>

Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se> skriver:
> My weapon of choice would be
>   find . -name '*.pyc' | xargs rm
> but on the other hand .pyc files don't bother me much ...

But J?rgen, that use of find/xargs assumes that you know what files
that exists. If you have files whith bad names, you should always use
-print0 and -0 e.g

  find . -name \*.pyc -print0 | xargs -0 rm

/ Balp
-- 
http://anders.arnholm.nu/			     Keep on Balping


From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Wed Nov 24 13:31:13 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 18:31:13 GMT
Subject: teaching OO
References: <slrncq8inq.9gv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.6761.1101319629.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncq9krh.npu.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>

Thanks a lot for your response and sharing your thoughts.

>    I think it's 
>  clear the future of programming won't look like C++.  It won't 

You know, I keep wondering exactly what we will be teaching as programming
languages become easier and easier to learn.

Programming itself? -- won't be enough for a whole semester.
Algorithms? -- is and will be a whole different class.
Patterns? -- needs too large programming assignments.
...


>  vs. by-value calling, etc) as coping mechanisms.  This is because I come 
>  at it from the perspective of a dynamic language programmer (before 
>  Python I preferred languages like Scheme or Smalltalk).  These 
>  judgements are something a programmer acquires early on.  Conversely, if 
>  you start with C++ or C, you might see a dynamic language as a facade 
>  ontop of the more fundamental notions of pointers and memory management. 

I learnt OO the smalltalk way, and i loved it.
But i program a lot in C++ and i do like it, too.

Another question is: can you teach effectively the inner workings, if you
teach only a dynamic language?


Best regards,
Gabriel.

-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| There are works which wait,                                             |
| and which one does not understand for a long time; [...]                |
| for the question often arrives a terribly long time after the answer.   |
|                                                         (Oscar Wilde)   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From mederis at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 10 09:44:07 2004
From: mederis at hotmail.com (Marc Ederis)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 06:44:07 -0800
Subject: sockets: How to know when your data is sent
References: <f00811ba.0411090653.5f6d1d29@posting.google.com>
	<4190e27f$0$95596$a1866201@visi.com>
	<K4k*FXdzq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
	<4190fdab$0$87168$a1866201@visi.com>
Message-ID: <f00811ba.0411100644.51ffe004@posting.google.com>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote in message news:<4190fdab$0$87168$a1866201 at visi.com>...
> On 2004-11-09, Sion Arrowsmith <siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> 
> >>> When I use the send function, it will happily send a buffer of
> >>> a megabyte and more in one shot. But of course, the data is
> >>> still in the network buffer...  [ ... ] The problem is, how
> >>> can I know when it's done?
> >>
> >>Under Linux, there is no way to tell.  IIRC, there's no way to
> >>tell under BSD either.  I actually wrote some kernel mode code
> >>once upon a time to provide an ioctl() that I could call from
> >>user space to find out when the data I had written to a socket
> >>was actually sent.
> >
> > I may well be missing the point of the problem here, but wouldn't
> > just turning TCP_NODELAY on guarantee that send() won't return
> > until the last ACK has returned?
> 
> Nope.  Send returns as soon as the the data is copied to a a
> kernel-space buffer.  TCP_NODELAY has no effect on that. It
> only changes the stack's behavior as it's taking data from that
> buffer and putting it on the wire.  Eventually, the TCP window
> will fill up, and after than the tx buffer will fill up, and
> after that, send will block.  There's no practical way to
> predict the size of either the TCP window or the tx buffer.
> There's also no practical way to determine how much data is
> still waiting to be acked (unless you want to do kernel
> hacking).
> 
> > And if you're not using TCP:
> >
> >>The way to tell that data has been sent is to use an
> >>application-level protocol that acknowleges the data transferr.
> >
> > applies in spades if you care about reliability.
> 
> Unfortunately, many people who write network applications (and
> protocols) make all sorts of bizarre assumptions, and somebody
> ends up jumping through hoops later to try to fix things when
> those assumptions turn out to be wrong. :/


I see, so the right way to do it is to have the server respond on a
successful receipt of the data. Thanks Grant. And thanks for
mentioning TCP_NODELAY, Sion, because I was about to try that too, but
this saves me the trouble.

-Marc


From rahorkuit at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 30 06:53:40 2004
From: rahorkuit at yahoo.com (Rodney Dangerfield)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 03:53:40 -0800
Subject: Video Catalogue
Message-ID: <755b5724.0411300353.654d7db6@posting.google.com>

Greetz!

Recently I started creating a CGI application for my gf that
she would use for indexing and keeping track of her video
collection.

I am relatively new to python so I started with the basics.
I figured out how to extract the form field values in a
script and how to save to a file.

My question is which data type should I use to store the information
about the videos? I was thinking of using a dictionary variable,
I saw something about the pickle module too, could I use it to
save the state of my dictionary to a file and than later read it
and feed values from it to the form fields via CGI?

All help is greatly appreciated.


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 10:34:15 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:34:15 -0500
Subject: Struggling with struct.unpack() and "p" format specifier
In-Reply-To: <6b26402d.0411300657.d575d75@posting.google.com>
References: <6b26402d.0411300657.d575d75@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1f7befae04113007345cf2b242@mail.gmail.com>

[Geoffrey <geskerrett at hotmail.com>]
> I am trying to read data from a file binary file and then unpack the
> data into python variables.  Some of the data is store like this;
> 
> xbuffer: '\x00\x00\xb9\x02\x13EXCLUDE_CREDIT_CARD'
> # the above was printed using repr(xbuffer).
> # Note that int(0x13) = 19 which is exactly the length of the visible
> text
> #
> 
> In the code I have the following statement;
> x = st.unpack('>xxBBp',xbuffer)
> 
> This throws out the following error;
>
> x = st.unpack('>xxBBp',xbuffer)
> error: unpack str size does not match format
> 
> As I read the documentation the "p" format string seems to
> address this situation, where the number bytes of the string to
> read is the first byte of the stored value but I keep getting this
> error.

...

Well, the docs mean it when they say:

    Note that for unpack(), the "p" format character consumes count
    bytes

You don't have an explicit count in front of your "p" code, so count
defaults to 1, so only one byte of xbuffer will get consumed.

This works, telling struct that this particular p field consumes 20
bytes (including the string-length byte):

>>> struct.unpack('>xxBB20p',xbuffer)
(185, 2, 'EXCLUDE_CREDIT_CARD')

Or, a bit more generally, assuming your p field is always at the end,
and is preceded by 4 bytes:

>>> struct.unpack('>xxBB%dp' % (len(xbuffer) - 4), xbuffer)
(185, 2, 'EXCLUDE_CREDIT_CARD')

Note that there's no direct support for any kind of variable-width
data in struct.  The number of bytes involved has to be deducible from
the format string alone.


From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Wed Nov 10 15:07:30 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:07:30 +0100
Subject: sockets: How to know when your data is sent
In-Reply-To: <d52c72d204111007051b914191@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f00811ba.0411090653.5f6d1d29@posting.google.com>	<4190e27f$0$95596$a1866201@visi.com>	<K4k*FXdzq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>	<4190fdab$0$87168$a1866201@visi.com>
	<d52c72d204111007051b914191@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41927502.1010500@geochemsource.com>


>Woah!  This is all enlightening news to me.  Of course, what little
>bit of socket level stuff I've done, I've always had a
>"send/acknowledge" type protocol wrapped around.  I guess I've just
>been lucky so far :-).
>
Oh yeah. I did the same and I realized that the response time can be 
very long.
I had to reconsider my protocol, and use as few send/ack pairs as possible.
No matter if you have a broadband connection or not - it can be VERY slow
if your protocol uses many send/ack pairs.




From changli_to at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 19 09:32:01 2004
From: changli_to at hotmail.com (Chang LI)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 06:32:01 -0800
Subject: Python with Apache 2.0
Message-ID: <89cc6e1f.0411190632.2976b3e1@posting.google.com>

Does python support threads safely along with Apache 2.0 in web applications.

Chang


From Python at IvoNet.nl  Thu Nov 11 13:23:35 2004
From: Python at IvoNet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:23:35 +0100
Subject: ConfigParser
References: <nrr3p0d03b1p2pcvk7irgbm1k0nurndehj@4ax.com>
	<35t4p0lou2lmcigaj2ic1fv9b253d5nq6k@4ax.com>
	<tv55p0ltk5238k9bsqcnb4sv5j27vtpjnc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <eaa7p0tk8hgkkt8qu89khg07fn62cnj7c7@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:37:50 GMT, Manlio Perillo
<NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it> wrote:

>On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:09:39 +0100, Ivo Woltring <Python at IvoNet.nl>
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:39:27 GMT, Manlio Perillo
>><NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it> wrote:
>>
>>>Regards.
>>>
>>>Since sections in CongiParser files are delimited by [ and ], why
>>>there is not an escape (and unescape) function for escaping
>>>&, [, and ] characters to &amp;, &lbrack; and &rbrack; ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Thanks   Manlio Perillo
>>
>>another discovery:
>>
>>the get() DOES translate &lbrack; etc back to '[' etc, so it seameth
>>to me that the whole question is mute ;-))
>>
>
>
>What version are you using?
>In Python 2.3.3 get does not handles &lbrack; (or I did not understand
>what you are saying).
>
>
>
>Thanks and regards   Manlio Perillo

You are absolutely right. My 'bad'. I made a mistake in my test.
I posted a correction yesterday, but my attachements don't seem to get
thru.

below my current class:

http://ivonet.nl/cgi-bin/py2html.py?FileID=11

Be patient my connection is not all that fast.
cheerz,
Ivo



From marc at zeroc.com  Wed Nov 24 08:07:06 2004
From: marc at zeroc.com (Marc Laukien)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:07:06 -0500
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Ice 2.0 released
In-Reply-To: <ted8q0h19c4disktejd9ur7pdgec0h1hl0@4ax.com>
References: <ketod.45140$K7.3294@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<ted8q0h19c4disktejd9ur7pdgec0h1hl0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <s7SdnfFRp_kLGjncRVn-1A@speakeasy.net>

> I'm sure this is a wonderful thing, but your announcement gives absolutely
> no clue as to what Ice is or what it is used for.
> 
> Please include an executive summary when you make an announcement like
> this.

Sorry for the omission. Please see the summary below:

"The Internet Communications Engine (Ice) is a modern alternative to 
object middleware such as CORBA? or COM/DCOM/COM+. Ice is easy to learn, 
yet provides a powerful network infrastructure for demanding technical 
applications. Ice shines where technologies such as SOAP or XML-RPC are 
too slow, or do not provide sufficient scalability or security.

Ice is free software, available with full source, and released under the 
terms of the GNU General Public License (GPL). Commercial licenses are 
available for customers who wish to use Ice for closed-source software."

For more information, check out this paper:

http://www.zeroc.com/ieeeArticle.html

Cheers,
Marc


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Thu Nov 25 03:44:32 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 25 Nov 2004 09:44:32 +0100
Subject: protocols, inheritance and polymorphism
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>
	<Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<YWKod.137814$HA.44609@attbi_s01>
	<donn-F6A9D8.11153623112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<tqadnT2kAIXJEj7cRVn-hA@rogers.com>
	<donn-F39B72.13183123112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<mqedndyH_YCYUT7cRVn-uQ@rogers.com>
	<donn-D778C1.17100223112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<786dnYZkrq-ieT7cRVn-tw@rogers.com> <1101273995.954137@yasure>
	<s4qdnUDCJoJ9vjncRVn-hA@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <tyfhdnefhcf.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

"Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> writes:

> Can you elaborate on problems that static languages have with OOP?

They make dynamic polymorphism impossible.

Which is why most object-oriented C++ programs are dynamically typed;
only the programmer is burdened with the work that the mostly-absent
dynamic type system should be doing.

Dynamic polymorphism crucially requires knowledge of the *run-time*
(dynamic) type of objects, in order to be able to dispatch to the
correct method. In C++ you turn your classes into dynamically typed
ones with the "virtual" keyword, which introduces a vtable and
run-time type identification (RTTI). As long as you are only
interested in calling methods which are declared in some base class,
this dynamic type systems looks almost satisfactory. As soon as you
want to use a method present in the subclass but not in the
superclass, it is up to you to faff around with dynamic_cast and
checking of the resulting pointer; all stuff which a dynamic type
system should be doing for you, but C++ makes you do yourself because
it pretends that your programs are statically typed when, in fact,
they are dynamically typed.


From lists.python.org at bdash.net.nz  Fri Nov 19 07:37:27 2004
From: lists.python.org at bdash.net.nz (Mark Rowe)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 01:37:27 +1300
Subject: persistent CGI pattern at google.com (was why python?)
In-Reply-To: <419ddd06$0$12268$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-05.noos.net>
References: <419ddd06$0$12268$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-05.noos.net>
Message-ID: <C5352F6E-3A27-11D9-9CDE-000A95D05654@bdash.net.nz>


On Nov 20, 2004, at 12:56 AM, francois lepoutre wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>> Google itself is a python success story - for example this here:
>>  https://adwords.google.com/support/bin/topic.py?topic=102
>
> Sure, it looks like google.com is using some kind of
> cgi process to run python code. Kind of good news
> for those selling python-based stuff.
>
> I expect google use some sort of persistency layer
> (mod_python, fastcgi ...) to run their python cgi code
> effectively.
>
> Anyone knows the way their python code is delivered
> at adwords ?

The HTTP headers returned from the above URL look something like:

HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: Mathopd/1.5p3
Transfer-Encoding: chunked
Set-Cookie: N_T=; path=/; domain=adwords.google.com;expires=Thursday, 
01-Jan-1970 00:00:00 GMT
Set-Cookie: N_T=; path=/; expires=Thursday, 01-Jan-1970 00:00:00 GMT
Set-Cookie: N_T=v=1&c=1f3ebd18&s=419de707&t=T:0:102; path=/support; 
domain=adwords.google.com
Content-Type: text/html
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:28:55 GMT

Mathopd (<http://www.mathopd.org/>) is "a very small, yet very fast 
HTTP server for UN*X systems".


Further on in the HTML we see  """<META name="type" 
content="topic.cs">""".  The topic.cs portion of that tag suggests to 
me that ClearSilver (<http://www.clearsilver.net/>) is being used for 
the templating of the page.  A little digging around the ClearSilver 
site finds this interesting snippet 
(<http://www.clearsilver.net/examples.hdf>):  "Here are some examples 
of websites and applications built today using ClearSilver. The host 
programming language is also listed:  ...  Google Groups 2 - The new 
version of Google Groups uses ClearSilver. (C++/Python)".

None of this directly addresses your question with regards to the 
"persistency layer" that they use, but it does provide relatively 
strong evidence of the Python-related technologies that they are using 
for user-visible portions of their services.

Regards,

Mark Rowe
<http://bdash.net.nz/>



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov 19 18:25:24 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:25:24 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <cnlvcq$1f1$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message 
news:16798.16559.745209.751967 at montanaro.dyndns.org...
>
> My guess is Microsoft hopes to discourage Visual Basic knock-offs.  Claim 
> 2
> clearly seems to restrict the scope to BASIC.

But Claim 1 is generic.  Not being an initiate into Patentese, I would not 
be sure is Claim 2 is a restriction or an exemplification or a backup 
claim.

> Seems pretty slimy.

To me, this confirms the depravity of software claims.

I think the Python Software Foundation should notify both the Patent Office 
and the claimant lawyers of Python's prior art of an 'is not' operator with 
the same meaning.  The necessity, for Basic, to delete the space or change 
it to '_' (and both forms, with all variations of casing, are 'claimed' as 
inventions) is because Microsoft Basic currently parses 'a Is Not b' as 'a 
Is (Not b)' instead of 'a (Is Not) b' as Python does and coupled with a 
proper reluctance to change the meaning of currently legal code.  But 
changing ' ' to '_' for pragmatic reasons is standard in programming 
languages, including Python.

Terry J. Reedy





From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov  8 15:33:43 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 15:33:43 -0500
Subject: Simple thread pools
In-Reply-To: <20041108101014.F879.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <mailman.5937.1099608210.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Y3Kjd.13319$931.8364@lakeread01>
	<20041108101014.F879.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <418FD827.7090007@holdenweb.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

> Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> 
>>Josiah Carlson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Jacob Friis <lists at debpro.webcom.dk> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I have built a script inspired by a post on Speno's Pythonic Avocado:
>>>>http://www.pycs.net/users/0000231/weblog/2004/01/04.html#P10
>>>>
>>>>I'm setting NUM_FEEDERS to 1000.
>>>>Is that crazy?
>>>
>>>
>>>Not crazy, but foolish.  Thread scheduling in Python reduces performance
>>>beyond a few dozen threads.  If you are doing system calls (socket.recv,
>>>file.read, etc.), your performance will be poor.
>>>
>>
>>Is this speculative, or do you have some hard evidence to support it? I 
>>recently rewrote a billing program that delivers statements by email. 
>>The number of threads it uses is a parameter to the program, and we are 
>>currently running at 200 with every evidence of satisfaction - this 
>>month's live run sent something over 10,000 emails an hour.
> 
> 
> There is a slowdown (perhaps 'poor' was a bad description).
> 
Well, I suspect it didn't adequately convey the meaning you wanted to 
communicate.

> 
>>>>i = 1
>>>>import os
>>>>while i < 256:
> 
> ...     t = os.system('test_thread1.py %i'%i
> ...     i *= 2
> ...
> 0.0 8.45300006866 204800000
> 0.0 7.625 204800000
> 0.0 9.65600013733 204800000
> 0.0150001049042 11.2969999313 204800000
> 0.0159997940063 15.8280000687 204800000
> 0.0780000686646 16.6719999313 204800000
> 0.172000169754 17.2029998302 204734464
> 0.125 18.7189998627 204734464
> 
> 
> Back in the days of Python 2.0, I had written what would now be called a
> P2P framework.  I initially used blocking threads for communication, and
> observed that as my number of connections and threads increased, I saw a
> marked reduction in throughput, and an increase in latency (even on a
> local machine).  In switching to an asynchronous framework (heavily
> derived from asyncore), I ended up with a system that had nearly constant
> throughput regardless of the number of connections.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>>>Are there a better solution?
>>>
>>>
>>>Fewer threads.  Try running at 10-30.  If you are finding that you
>>>aren't able to handle the load with those threads, then your
>>>processor/disk/etc isn't fast enough to handle the load.
>>>
>>
>>I'm tempted to say "rubbish", but that would be rude, so instead I'll 
>>just ask for some evidence :-). Don't forget that in network-based tasks 
>>the time spent waiting for connection turnarounds can dominate the 
>>elapsed time for execution - did you perhaps overlook that?
> 
> 
> Evidence has been provided.
> 
>  - Josiah
> 
> 
> 
> #test_thread1.py
> import socket
> import time
> import threading
> import sys
> import os
> 
> paircount = int(sys.argv[1])
> c = threading.Condition()
> 
> l = threading.Lock()
> ds = 0L
> 
> def reader(n, p):
>     o_r = os.read
>     global ds
>     c.acquire()
>     c.wait()
>     c.release()
>     ld = 0
>     for i in xrange(n):
>         ld += len(o_r(p, 1024))
>     l.acquire()
>     ds += ld
>     l.release()
> 
> s = 1024*'\0'
> def writer(n, p):
>     o_w = os.write
>     global ds
>     c.acquire()
>     c.wait()
>     c.release()
>     ld = 0
>     for i in xrange(n):
>         ld += o_w(p, s)
>     l.acquire()
>     ds += ld
>     l.release()
> 
> 
> count = 100000
> blks = count/paircount
> for i in xrange(paircount):
>     r,w = os.pipe()
>     threading.Thread(target=reader, args=(blks, r)).start()
>     threading.Thread(target=writer, args=(blks, w)).start()
> 
> time.sleep(1)
> t = time.time()
> c.acquire()
> c.notifyAll()
> c.release()
> print time.time()-t,
> t = time.time()
> while len(threading.enumerate()) > 1:
>     time.sleep(.05)
> print time.time()-t, ds
> 
> 
> 
It's not particularly surprising that communicating the same amount of 
information across more threads (and pipelines) on the same machine 
shows the thread-management activity starting to become significant.

However, in the case where I'm trying to send customer statements out by 
email I still maintain that it's quicker (i.e. a given number of mails 
will be sent out in less elapsed time) to have 200 threads running in 
parallel (each typically communicating with a separate mail server) than 
it is to use (say) 30 threads.

While I agree that overall I may end up using more local CPU, I'm happy 
to use it because it means I can send over 10,000 emails an hour. Are 
you suggesting it would go more quickly with fewer threads? This 
certainly contradicts my testing results.

Although your program imports the socket library it doesn't appear to 
use it, so I remain unconvinced of what you say. I do accept that we may 
be talking at cross purposes, however, since I'm unable to get 
www.pycs.net to respond and show me the original code on which the OP's 
question was based.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119



From mwm at mired.org  Fri Nov 12 22:59:04 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 21:59:04 -0600
Subject: a very newbie question about threading
References: <9c3edc58.0411121629.45652543@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <x7d5yio0vr.fsf@guru.mired.org>

chrispatton at gmail.com (Chris Patton) writes:

> I've recenently stumbled upon a concept known as "threading". Can
> anyone tell me what this IS and how it is used, or show me where I can
> get information about this?

Now that you know what they are - be warned that they tend to be a
source of very hard to track down bugs. If you can avoid writing
threaded code, do so. One common use of threads is to handle multiple
IO streams at one time. Asyncore is a much saner solution to that
problem.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From not_my_address at terra.es  Thu Nov  4 14:32:31 2004
From: not_my_address at terra.es (darkhorse)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:32:31 +0100
Subject: CGIs and file exclusion
Message-ID: <2uvedvF2g1pv3U1@uni-berlin.de>

Hi all,

While doing a quite big "set of programs" for a university subject I've
found myself in the middle of a problem someone surely has had before, so
I'm looking for some help.

At one point, I call a python cgi that pickle.load's a file, adds or deletes
a registry and dumps the result again in the file.
I'm worried that the cgi could be called simultaneously from two or more
different computers, thus most probably corrupting the files. I don't think
I can use a mutex as it's two different instances of the program and not
different threads, so I was thinking about locking the files between
programs, but I really don't know how to do that. It's not a problem if
there's no portable way of doing this, it's only going to be run on a linux
based computer.
Another solution I would accept is that the second called cgi detects that
other instance is running and displays a message saying to try again later.
Yes, not quite professional, but it'd do the job, after all this is just a
little detail I want to settle for a quite picky professor and not a "real
life" thing.
I think that's all the background you need, if someone can answer with
references on what should I look for or even better example code that would
be simply great.
Many thanks in advance.
DH




From nun at example.com  Mon Nov  8 18:30:18 2004
From: nun at example.com (Mitja)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 00:30:18 +0100
Subject: Determining combination of bits
References: <x3Qjd.121786$hj.41260@fed1read07>
	<mailman.6124.1099945664.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8KQjd.121796$hj.4674@fed1read07> <418ff674$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<p7Sjd.5365$F6.1280593@news.siol.net>
	<cmoqvv$68r$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <PgTjd.5367$F6.1280575@news.siol.net>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>> A lapse of mind?
>>>>> n = 6
>>>>> n & (-n)
>> 2
>>
>> You probably meant n&1 or perhaps n%2.
>
> No, the exact right thing: 6 is binary
>
> 110
>
> with the least significant bit beeing
>
> 10
>
> thus the decimal value of 2.

Wow. I always thought "least significant bit" meant, in the common big-endian bit notation, the last bit - with emphasis on the bit
word, i.e. either 1 or 0.
Have I got a real mess in my head (probably not, I just googled for definitions and the onse I checked are consistent with what I
wrote, http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22least+significant+bit%22) or is the meaning of the phrase poorly defined?




From kentsin at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 25 09:53:53 2004
From: kentsin at yahoo.com (kent sin)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 06:53:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: network programming without goto
Message-ID: <20041125145353.89046.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com>

Please help:

I was really blocked here. without goto I really do
not known how to do it.

The problem is to use PyZ3950 to consult a lists of
hosts and for each of them to search for a list of
targets. Since the network is undetermined, there were
always some exceptions: I would like to allow it to
retry for 3 times. Moreover, during the query process,
the conn will timeout (set by the remote server).
Reconnect is preferred before fail the current search,
but the reconnect may fail even if the first try is
succeed.


for host in hostlist:
    try:
        # sometimes the host may fail
        conn =zoom.Connecton(host.ip, host.port)
    except:
        continue  # Next host? But How to give it some
chance? 3 times?
    ...
    reconnect = 0
    for t in targets:
        # ?
        if reconnect:
           # if conn timeout, reconnect
           try:
               # Fail??? 3 chances rules here?
               conn = zoom.Connection(host.ip,
host.port)
           except:
               # ? Where should I go?
        q = buildquery(t)
        try: # Hay, any things can be broken
             # and after some iteration, conn should
timeout
             r = conn.search(q)
        except:
             reconnect = 1
             #??? how to retry this t?



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Nov 29 04:08:35 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:08:35 +0100
Subject: Psycopg2 mirror availability
In-Reply-To: <1101679580.8818.0.camel@odin>
References: <mailman.6848.1101650795.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cElqd.26005$zx1.17571@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
	<m3k6s5kh1l.fsf@g2ctech.com>
	<20041128183515.GA13896@mylene.ghaering.de>
	<1101679580.8818.0.camel@odin>
Message-ID: <20041129090835.GA17473@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Sun, Nov 28, 2004 at 10:06:20PM +0000, Andrew James wrote:
> Gerhard,
> What's your public key? Your messages are all showing up as having an
> invalid signature!

The key should be on the keyservers now.

-- Gerhard
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From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Nov  7 22:20:30 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 21:20:30 -0600
Subject: SystemError: com_backpatch: offset too large
In-Reply-To: <781f5e76.0411042321.1c6dc26a@posting.google.com>
References: <781f5e76.0411032335.57bf5ae4@posting.google.com>
	<cmd8ml$k1o$02$4@news.t-online.com>
	<781f5e76.0411042321.1c6dc26a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041108032028.GA9800@unpythonic.net>

I wrote in a long-ago python-list thread:
> >Python supports a prefix opcode to give 32-bit operand values instead of
> >16-bit values, but the code generator isn't smart enough to use them.
> 
On Thu, Nov 04, 2004 at 11:21:46PM -0800, alban.minassian at wanadoo.fr wrote:
> There is a solution 'force' code generator 32-bit operand values instead of
> 16-bit values ?

The following patch (against CVS head, but it should apply manually to
any recent version of Python) makes all backwards branches use
EXTENDED_ARG unconditionally.  This means that the bytecode will be 3
bytes bigger for each such branch, and the bytecode optimizer will not
run (one of its assumptions is that there is no EXTENDED_ARG.  It should
detect this automatically, but I made it exit early unconditionally.  It
will now run only for functions without backpatched branches, which I
think excludes any function with 'if', 'for', 'and', 'or', chain
comparison, or anything else that makes for a useful function)

A better approach would probably be to add a variable to 'struct
compiling' to denote whether EXTENDED_ARG branches are being used.  It
would be initially set to zero, then if the com_backpatch error code is
hit, the compile is restarted with the flag set and all jumps become
EXTENDED_ARG jumps.  Now, the price is paid only by overly complex
code objects, but it's still paid by all branches.

The best approach would be to use either of the strategies above, but
then fix the optimizer to notice when an EXTENDED_ARG is zero and remove
it, shifting all affected branches accordingly, to get the best possible
code.

I did not run the test suite after this change, but it does fail to
error out on the two pieces of code in my older message. (it also
compiles this statement with the value increased from ~16k to ~300k:
>>> exec "if len:\n" + "\tNone\n" * 300000 + "else: pass"
}

You may use the code below under the terms of the Python license.

Jeff

Index: Python/compile.c
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/python/python/dist/src/Python/compile.c,v
retrieving revision 2.337
diff -u -r2.337 compile.c
--- Python/compile.c	7 Nov 2004 14:04:00 -0000	2.337
+++ Python/compile.c	8 Nov 2004 03:03:11 -0000
@@ -503,6 +503,7 @@
 	unsigned int *blocks = NULL;
 	char *name;
 
+	goto exitUnchanged;
 	/* Bail out if an exception is set */
 	if (PyErr_Occurred())
 		goto exitUnchanged;
@@ -1331,11 +1332,14 @@
 	/* Compile a forward reference for backpatching */
 	int here;
 	int anchor;
-	com_addbyte(c, op);
+	com_addbyte(c, EXTENDED_ARG);
 	here = c->c_nexti;
 	anchor = *p_anchor;
 	*p_anchor = here;
-	com_addint(c, anchor == 0 ? 0 : here - anchor);
+	anchor = anchor == 0 ? 0 : here - anchor;
+	com_addint(c, anchor >> 16);
+	com_addbyte(c, op);
+	com_addint(c, anchor & 0xffff);
 }
 
 static void
@@ -1347,17 +1351,16 @@
 	int prev;
 	for (;;) {
 		/* Make the JUMP instruction at anchor point to target */
-		prev = code[anchor] + (code[anchor+1] << 8);
-		dist = target - (anchor+2);
-		code[anchor] = dist & 0xff;
+		prev = (code[anchor] << 16)+ (code[anchor+1] << 24)
+		       + code[anchor+3] + (code[anchor+4] << 8);
+		dist = target - (anchor+5);
+		code[anchor+3] = dist & 0xff;
 		dist >>= 8;
-		code[anchor+1] = dist;
+		code[anchor+4] = dist & 0xff;
 		dist >>= 8;
-		if (dist) {
-			com_error(c, PyExc_SystemError,
-				  "com_backpatch: offset too large");
-			break;
-		}
+		code[anchor] = dist & 0xff;
+		dist >>= 8;
+		code[anchor+1] = dist & 0xff;
 		if (!prev)
 			break;
 		anchor -= prev;


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From ed at leafe.com  Thu Nov 18 19:02:06 2004
From: ed at leafe.com (Ed Leafe)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 19:02:06 -0500
Subject: Importing files other than *.py
Message-ID: <40050B97-39BE-11D9-B38F-003065B11E84@leafe.com>

	If I have a Python script in a file named "burp.zz", is there any way 
to import it into another script as you can with files named with the 
.py extension?

	I looked at the imp module, but was not able to make it do what I 
wanted. Is this possible, or is the py/pyc extension required?

      ___/
     /
    __/
   /
  ____/
  Ed Leafe
  http://leafe.com/
  http://dabodev.com/



From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Sun Nov 21 10:13:37 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:13:37 -0500
Subject: R BATCH jobs from Python
In-Reply-To: <ccdb2248.0411201530.1ee3df95@posting.google.com>
References: <ccdb2248.0411201530.1ee3df95@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <U-ydnTWaW_M4LT3cRVn-hA@giganews.com>

Benjamin Scott wrote:

> them.  i still can't run an analogous procedure from python.  i have
> attempted to use os.system, the popen family.  i feel like part of the

This is what I use (works on windows and unix):

inf, outf, errf = os.popen3("R -slave < myscript.R")

You need to have R in your path of course.

Istvan.


From timh at zute.net  Sat Nov 27 02:10:03 2004
From: timh at zute.net (Tim Hoffman)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:10:03 +0800
Subject: Number of colors in an image
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6834.1101513405.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6820.1101494223.5135.python-list@python.org>	<uekigxnj7.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<mailman.6834.1101513405.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41a8284c@news.highway1.com.au>

Have a look at the histogram function of PIL


Tim
Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:
> Hello David,
> 
> Friday, November 26, 2004, 11:18:04 PM, you wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>>For example, for an RGB image:
> 
> 
>>    import sys
>>    from PIL import Image
>>    from itertools import izip, repeat
> 
> 
>>    if __name__ == "__main__":
> 
> 
>>        im = Image.open(sys.argv[1])
>>        r = im.getdata(0)
>>        g = im.getdata(1)
>>        b = im.getdata(2)
>>        print 'Number of colors =', len(colors)
> 
> 
> Thank you, this was very helpful. I'll try to use this one instead of
> ImageMagick. (The identify program does not work in some cases...)
> 


From peter at somewhere.com  Tue Nov  2 08:33:28 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 14:33:28 +0100
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.30.18.40.19.137063@jerf.org>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de> <clvpa0$7ag$2@star.cs.vu.nl>
	<clvrk0$djr$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<Z8Mgd.8520$Es2.172559@twister2.libero.it>
	<pan.2004.10.30.18.40.19.137063@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <cm7upe$qrv$1@swifty.westend.com>

Jeremy Bowers schrieb:
> It is trivial to make something that implements a subset of the language
> run faster than something that implements the entire language.
> 
> This is why while I am optimistic and hopeful, I don't consider current
> running speeds to be evidence that they will win.

To expect someone to fail who wants to reimplement a faster Python fulfils
my definition of pessimism. ;)

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Nov  8 19:22:52 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 16:22:52 -0800
Subject: Simple thread pools
In-Reply-To: <418FD827.7090007@holdenweb.com>
References: <20041108101014.F879.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<418FD827.7090007@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <20041108152122.F884.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

[snip prior portions of the conversation as it was getting long]

> It's not particularly surprising that communicating the same amount of 
> information across more threads (and pipelines) on the same machine 
> shows the thread-management activity starting to become significant.
> 
> However, in the case where I'm trying to send customer statements out by 
> email I still maintain that it's quicker (i.e. a given number of mails 
> will be sent out in less elapsed time) to have 200 threads running in 
> parallel (each typically communicating with a separate mail server) than 
> it is to use (say) 30 threads.
> 
> While I agree that overall I may end up using more local CPU, I'm happy 
> to use it because it means I can send over 10,000 emails an hour. Are 
> you suggesting it would go more quickly with fewer threads? This 
> certainly contradicts my testing results.
> 
> Although your program imports the socket library it doesn't appear to 
> use it, so I remain unconvinced of what you say. I do accept that we may 
> be talking at cross purposes, however, since I'm unable to get 
> www.pycs.net to respond and show me the original code on which the OP's 
> question was based.

I had initially planned to create a listening socket, and generate a
bunch of local sockets, then I remembered os.pipe and said to myself, "to
hell with it, pipes should be faster, they bypass the network stack".


As they sometimes say, "there is more than one way to skin a cat",
though let us hope that there isn't any cat skinning.

If your processor spends time maxed out by your script, then you may do
better by reducing threads (processor limited, and not bandwidth/latency
limited).  As thread count increases, you spend more processor handling
overhead.  If it isn't maxed out, and you are running at the file handle
limit and/or the bandwidth limit, congrats.


Now, just because you are using fewer threads, doesn't mean that you
can't get equivalent throughput.  Heck, using a heavily modified variant
of asyncore, we've been able to handle 50,000 POP3 account checks (login,
stat, and if necessary: list, uidl, download email, delete email,
disconnect) every 15 minutes from a laptop.  Our biggest issue is
latency of our connection, but even then, we do well considering that
this is all with a single thread.

 - Josiah



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Nov 20 11:12:18 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 11:12:18 -0500
Subject: instant messenging
In-Reply-To: <rrznd.1304$QR.48@lakeread01>
References: <s9und.4018$Qh3.1971@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<cnmdgr$sl8$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<rrznd.1304$QR.48@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <cnnqap$6i9$3@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
>> Lucas Raab wrote:
>>
>>> Are there any instant messenging programs out there for use in a 
>>> Python app?? I've heard of Jabber, but never looke into it.
>>
>> Maybe try Googling for "python instant messenging"?  I note that
>> in the first page of results there are at least two Python
>> modules for the Jabber protocol...
>>
> You'd probably get better results googling for "python instant 
> messaging", the more common term for Jabber et al.

Ah, yes.  The OP's term felt weird, but I didn't consciously
note the error...  and Google still found stuff! :-)

-Peter


From exarkun at divmod.com  Mon Nov 22 11:39:18 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:39:18 GMT
Subject: for(each) element aliasing
In-Reply-To: <2844q0l5ccahj6poumolghrcm2u2boo9ka@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20041122163918.17481.587664411.divmod.quotient.1296@ohm>

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:21:26 +0100, Matija Papec <mpapec at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I know how to alter the list via list indicies but I would like to know if
> there is posibility to write in Python something like:
> 
> my @arr = 1..3;
> for my $element (@arr) {
>   $element *= 2;
> }
> print "@arr\n";
> 
> and get the result
> -------
> 2 4 6
> 

  No.  Integers in Python are immutable.  For lists of other things, mutation in-place (similar to the above example) is possible, but for integers and other immutable types, it is not.  You may be interested in list comprehensions, though:

    arr = range(1, 4)
    arr[:] = [a * 2 for a in arr]
    print arr

  Jp


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 19:21:40 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:21:40 -0200
Subject: Importing files other than *.py
In-Reply-To: <40050B97-39BE-11D9-B38F-003065B11E84@leafe.com>
References: <40050B97-39BE-11D9-B38F-003065B11E84@leafe.com>
Message-ID: <864d370904111816217f383d18@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 19:02:06 -0500, Ed Leafe <ed at leafe.com> wrote:
>         If I have a Python script in a file named "burp.zz", is there any way
> to import it into another script as you can with files named with the
> .py extension?
> 
>         I looked at the imp module, but was not able to make it do what I
> wanted. Is this possible, or is the py/pyc extension required?

Hi Ed,

I've been working on a 'dynamic code loader' that does something
similar. I wanted to have a repository of classes that could be
dynamically updated without stopping the application server. I tried
to understand Python import internals (boldly posting some questions
at python-dev) but in the end, I realized that it would be way too
confusing. My advice: don't try it :-) I ended up doing something
simpler, but still had to hack my way.

The solution is to use the execfile() builtin. It takes any file name
(with any extension) as an argument. The catch (that costed me a
couple of hours) is that you need to provide it with a suitable
environment to run, if you want to retrieve the results in a sane &
safe way.

execfile() takes two optional parameters: one is for the globals() and
the other one for the locals() environment. Simple dicts can be
supplied, and wil be looked at for attribute access & storage, pretty
much like for any code executing in Python. For my purposes, I ended
up using only one. You can provide pre-initialized references in this
dict; it's safer than passing the full globals() environment. For
example:

    myglobals = { 'myobj': myobj }
    execfile('arbitraryfile.xyz', myglobals)

... and your code at 'arbitraryfile.xyz' can safely access the 'myobj'
variable. Upon return, any locals symbols that were defined by your
code will also be available on the myglobals dict. As you have passed
a restricted dict for it to work, you have to explicitly copy the
newly defined symbols into your locals() dict.

However, there is a problem with 'import' from within the code being
executed; it will look for modules on the directory where the source
file is located. Thus, if your code tries to import a library from
your system, it may not find it (even if it was located in the same
directory where the code that called it via execfile() was). So,
*before* you call the code, update the sys.path to include any
directories from where you may need to import stuff.

(btw, I've been checking Dabo from time to time. Good to know you're
making progress!).

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From bradtilley at gmail.com  Fri Nov 19 16:55:19 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:55:19 -0500
Subject: instances v. threads
Message-ID: <cnlq48$qf7$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

I've just started using classes in Python for some projects at work and 
have a few questions about them. I understand that once a class is 
defined that I can create many instances of it like this:

class xyz:
    def one():
       pass
    def two ():
       pass
    def three():
       pass

a = xyz()
b = xyz()
c = xyz()

a.one()
b.one()
c.one()
c.two()
c.three()

How does asynchronous/threaded programming differ from OO programming 
and classes? C is not OO and has no classes, but one can write threaded 
programs in C, right? Perhaps I'm totally off on this... can some 
explain how these concepts differ? Exactly how is an 'instance' 
different from a 'thread'?

Thanks,
Brad


From fred at adventistcare.org  Wed Nov 17 08:43:52 2004
From: fred at adventistcare.org (Sells, Fred)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 08:43:52 -0500
Subject: Announce: csv_xs.py
Message-ID: <777056A4A8F1D21180EF0008C7DF75EE03317196@sunbelt.org>

...deleted...

to a hammer everything looks like a nail!

to a hammer everything looks like a thumb ;)

sorry, late night, couldn't resist.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Nov 13 04:17:19 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 01:17:19 -0800
Subject: escape sequences in list comprehensions
In-Reply-To: <4195bf2d.335181475@news.oz.net>
References: <cn401c$bcp$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<4195bf2d.335181475@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <20041113011656.F8FA.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:46:17 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> 
> >kartik wrote:
> >> Escape sequences don't seem to work in strings within list comprehensions:
> >> 
> >>>>>print ['%s\n' %i for i in [1,2,3]]
> >> 
> >> ['1\n', '2\n', '3\n']
> >> 
> >> What am I missing?
> >
> >Others have answered, but not explained.  When you print
> >a list (in other words, when you display the results of
> >calling str() on a list), the list chooses how to display
> >itself.  It chooses to display the brackets at the start
> >and end, the commas separating the items, and the results
> >of calling repr() on each individual item.  That means
> >that strings are shown with quotation marks (which are not
> >part of the string normally) and with special characters
> >represented as escape sequences.
> >
> >The following appears to be what you believed you wanted,
> >though it's not really what you wanted <wink>:
> >
> >lst = ['%s\n' % i for i in [1,2,3]]
> >print '[' + ', '.join([str(x) for x in lst]) + ']'
> >
> Maybe this is what he wanted (not recommended for general use ;-):
> 
>  >>> class FunnyStr(str):
>  ...     def __repr__(self): return str(self)
>  ...
> 
> Plain:
>  >>> lst = ['%s\n' % i for i in [1,2,3]]
>  >>> lst
>  ['1\n', '2\n', '3\n']
> 
> Funny:
>  >>> lst = [FunnyStr('%s\n' % i) for i in [1,2,3]]
>  >>> lst
>  [1
>  , 2
>  , 3
>  ]
>  >>> print lst
>  [1
>  , 2
>  , 3
>  ]


If that's really what he wants, he should take a look at the pprint
module.

 - Josiah



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  1 03:50:56 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:50:56 +0200
Subject: Line buffering pipes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5690.1099098625.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gmkjbh.wuxl2l1f1okchM%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

> I've found in help( 'open') that specifying 1 as the buffer size
> indicates line buffering. I've tried this, but the same non-line
> buffered behaviour persists. I've tried disabling buffering
> altogether, specifying 0 as the buffer size, to no avail.

Then it looks like the buffering is being done by the application you're
driving.  Try pexpect.sourceforge.net maybe...


Alex


From jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 11 16:02:23 2004
From: jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1)
Date: 11 Nov 2004 13:02:23 -0800
Subject: parsing pyton code
References: <mailman.6094.1099869421.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c718a6cf.0411111302.6adf5190@posting.google.com>

"Philippe C. Martin" <philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.6094.1099869421.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> >>Check the source of the 'code' module, especially the runsource()
> >>method of the InteractiveInterpreter class.  Also, see these docs
>  
> >><http://docs.python.org/lib/module-code.html>
> 
> 
> >>/Jean Brouwers
> >>ProphICy Semiconductor, Inc.
> 
> 
> 
> code.InteractiveInterpreter.compile() did the trick - thank you
> 
> 
> PS: 17 years of C/C++, 3 months of Python .... 17 years wasted ? boy I  lov
> e  
> this language/environment.
> 
> 

not wasted just a learning experience so you can REALLY appreaciate
Python when you found it!
> 
> Philippe


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov  9 20:53:14 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 20:53:14 -0500
Subject: Concise idiom to initialize dictionaries
References: <419105EF.1020503@hccnet.nl>
	<20041109182750.20649.393280342.divmod.quotient.760@ohm>
Message-ID: <cmrsa1$hf$1@sea.gmane.org>


<exarkun at intarweb.us> wrote in message
>  Mutating the objects returned by both locals() and globals() is a no-no. 
> They are intended to provide _read only_ access to those two scopes.

True for locals(), not true, I believe for globals().  Check the lib ref 
for the builtin globals() function.

tjr





From Qianqian.Fang at Dartmouth.Edu  Sat Nov 27 23:21:51 2004
From: Qianqian.Fang at Dartmouth.Edu (Qianqian Fang)
Date: 27 Nov 2004 20:21:51 -0800
Subject: Python GTK import error
References: <b7420408.0411231408.38c2f03a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6737.1101253908.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b7420408.0411272021.70172ccd@posting.google.com>

no, the file is there, it actually links to another file:

/usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.400.13

but both files are in the right locations.
anything else that is suspecious to the problem?

thanks


Douglas Soares de Andrade <dsa at unilestemg.br> wrote in message news:<mailman.6737.1101253908.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi !
> 
> The error is that the system ins't finding this lib:
> 
> /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0
> 
> Try to see if your system has it.
> 
> See ya !


From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Fri Nov 19 18:39:02 2004
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:39:02 -0800
Subject: Recursive regexps?
In-Reply-To: <slrncpsqao.m3p.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
References: <slrncpsqao.m3p.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <200411191539.02985.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>


This may or may not be topical to the original post, but I think this would be 
cool in python:

>>> string = "abc 123 456 abc"
>>> import re
>>> regex = re.compile(r'(abc (\d+ )+abc)')
>>> s = regex.match(string)
>>> s.groups()
('abc 123 123 abc', ('123 ', '456 '))

(or similar), instead of

>>> s.groups()
('abc 123 123 abc', '123 ')


I dont have a CS degree, but I'm pretty sure that computers can do this sort 
of thing. It must not be obvious. I'm thinking of patenting the idea (regex 
engine returns nested matches) and copyrighting the name for it.

James

-- 
James Stroud, Ph.D.
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
611 Charles E. Young Dr. S.
MBI 205, UCLA 951570
Los Angeles CA 90095-1570
http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net  Thu Nov 25 14:35:11 2004
From: mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net (Jean Brouwers)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 19:35:11 GMT
Subject: How do you execute external programs from Python?
References: <iGppd.2045$3N5.117@amstwist00>
Message-ID: <251120041136391879%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>


You did not mentions what specific part is not working under cron, so
here is a guess.  

Maybe the PATH environment variable is not set correctly such that
binaries like mplayer can not be found.

Try using absolute path names for mplayer and any other files.

/Jean Brouwers


In article <iGppd.2045$3N5.117 at amstwist00>, Carl
<phleum_nospam at chello.se> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have this little code snippet that I use for recording audio streams. My
> problem is that I want to schedule my recordings with crontab. This does
> not work, however. I cannot figure out why; my code works fine when run
> manually from the command prompt. 
> 
> On final thing: What would be the best way to turn off the recording?
> 
> Can someone help me?
> 
> Carl
> 
> 
> Here is my code:
> 
> import time
> import os
> import shutil
> 
> URL = "http://www.jazzandblues.org/listen/links/kkjz1.ram"
> 
> def RecordURL(what = "KKJZ"):
>     str_mplayer = "mplayer -playlist " + URL
>     str_mplayer += " -ao pcm -aofile "
>     str_mplayer += what + ".wav" + " -vc dummy -vo null"
>     os.system(str_mplayer)
> 
> def CreateOGG(what = "KKJZ"):
>     ogg_file = what + ".ogg"
>     str_oggenc = "oggenc " + what + ".wav"
>     os.system(str_oggenc)
> 
> def CreateMP3(what = "KKJZ"):
>     mp3_file = what + ".mp3"
>     str_lame = "lame " + what + ".wav " + mp3_file
>     os.system(str_lame)
> 
> def DeleteWAV(what = "KKJZ"):
>     wav_file = what + ".wav"
>     str_rm = "rm " + wav_file
>     os.system(str_rm)
> 
> def DateTag(what = "KKJZ"):
>     local_time = time.asctime(time.localtime())
>     for local_file in [ what + ".ogg", what + ".mp3" ]:
>         length = len(local_file)
>         local_file_copy = local_file[: length - 4] + "_" + local_time + "."
> + local_file[length - 3 :]
>         shutil.copy(local_file, local_file_copy)
>             
> RecordURL()
> ## CreateOGG()
> ## CreateMP3()
> ## DeleteWAV()
> ## DateTag()
> 
> Here is my crontab entry:
> 
> 30 * * * * python -c "import os; os.chdir('/home/alpha/mymusic/P2/Jazz/');
> import KKJZ"
> 
>


From peter at somewhere.com  Thu Nov 25 04:25:39 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 10:25:39 +0100
Subject: Operator Overloading
In-Reply-To: <f6b69c93.0411250014.61315219@posting.google.com>
References: <f6b69c93.0411250014.61315219@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <co48s1$r1f$1@swifty.westend.com>

Sebastien Boisgerault schrieb:
> I wonder if the following quotation from the Python Reference Manual 
> (release 2.3.3) about operator overloading is true :
> 
> "For example, if a class defines a method named __getitem__(), and x
> is
> an instance of this class, then x[i] is equivalent to
> x.__getitem__(i)"
[...]
>>>>from Numeric import *
>>>>a = array([0.5])
>>>>a[0]
> 
> 0.5
> 
> but
> 
> 
>>>>a.__getitem__(0)
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: __getitem__

The quotation above is true. Short form:

IF __getitem__ in dict THEN [] works.

What you are wondering about is the opposite direction

IF [] works THEN __getitem__ in dict.

but this is not what the Python Reference Manual says. Im not a
Numeric expert but AFAIK Numeric arrays are basically C arrays
having [] intrinsically so there's no need no deliver it via
__getitem__.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Mon Nov  1 20:31:45 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 17:31:45 -0800
Subject: Linksys Router & Python
In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac.0411011659.3b8fc11@posting.google.com>
References: <cltjkt$4fi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<20041029112922.0BD9.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5681.1099078529.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8249c4ac.0411011659.3b8fc11@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1099359106.9453.10.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Mon, 2004-11-01 at 16:59 -0800, Tony C wrote:
> Cliff
> 
> 
> >>dyndns.org has a listing of many of them.
> Can you provide the full URL to these scripts, or do you need an
> account to get them ?

You shouldn't need an account, but accounts are free either way ;)

http://www.dyndns.org/support/clients.html


-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom  Wed Nov 10 13:02:35 2004
From: unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom (Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non triviale en fuite perpétuelle.)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:02:35 +0100
Subject: JPype download?
References: <mailman.6221.1100108688.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41925ac7$0$30420$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

OK for me  (with your link).







From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Nov 10 20:09:20 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:09:20 -0500
Subject: Problem with Python module
In-Reply-To: <cmtked$r8h$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <1100108851.526778.282530@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<cmtked$r8h$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <W2zkd.122$N95.70@lakeread01>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

>>I have tried using the mxODBC package from eGenix.
> 
> 
> I can't help you on your actual problem - but I have successfully accessed
> ms sql server from unix using unix-odbc and the freetds driver. Maybe using
> these solves your problems.
> 

You might also do well to ask the egenix support list. Marc-Andre is 
very helpful when he has time, and (ulinke him) other users do have 
access to Windows and SQL Server.

You can find it through www.egenix.com.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Tue Nov  2 15:09:46 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 15:09:46 -0500
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5838.1099425921.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>	<10of7jtm07h7f77@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.5838.1099425921.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <g8ydnYY52sUUdBrcRVn-jQ@giganews.com>

John Hazen wrote:

> Ummm...  Care to let us in on it? 

typo, he probably meant

"I can't think of a ..."


From beps at email.it  Mon Nov 22 17:47:58 2004
From: beps at email.it (beps)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:47:58 +0100
Subject: Text widget - insert line
References: <cnt1el$san$1@news.newsland.it>
	<41a21527$0$8170$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<cnt8is$tt7$1@news.newsland.it> <30emukF2u6uf7U2@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cntqav$jd4$1@news.newsland.it>



> > def show_customers(self, customers) :
> > ##      data is a list
> >         for data in customers:
> >             dato = operator.concat(str(data), '/n')
>                                                  ^^
> You have to use n, not /n.

> Reinhold

Yes, excuse me, this is my code now:
> > def show_customers(self, customers) :
> >         #customers is a list
> >         for data in customers :
> >              self.text_wdgt.insert(0.0, data)
> >              self.text_wdgt.insert(0.0, '\n')     

but the following is the output :
---------------
|data[last]
|data[....]
|data[....]
|data[....]
|data[first]
|--------------

I must obtain the exact contrary :
---------------
|data[first]
|data[....]
|data[....]
|data[....]
|data[last]
|--------------

There's an error in the indices of insert() method of Text widget.
The first data line one goes on the second and so on.
I would have to obtain the exact index of the line end.
But I have not still understood and tried like making.

If you have a ready example you show it to me, please.
thanks for all


         

-- 

questo articolo e` stato inviato via web dal servizio gratuito 
http://www.newsland.it/news segnala gli abusi ad abuse at newsland.it




From RichardVarela at excite.com  Mon Nov  1 11:42:39 2004
From: RichardVarela at excite.com (Richard)
Date: 1 Nov 2004 08:42:39 -0800
Subject: Help with ADO
Message-ID: <6d576153.0411010842.3dca2947@posting.google.com>

Has anyone had any luck with getting the lastlogin field from ADO?  I
have taken a couple tries at this by listing and by individual lookup.
 Both either fail or return a unknown COM object.

Please help,

Richard


From square690410 at yahoo.com.tw  Mon Nov  1 22:36:51 2004
From: square690410 at yahoo.com.tw (Leon)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 11:36:51 +0800
Subject: How to use Data Structure (such as Tree,link list) by Python?
Message-ID: <cm6vco$195$1@netnews.hinet.net>

as title 




From cage at cafeconleche.de  Thu Nov 11 16:36:15 2004
From: cage at cafeconleche.de (Johannes Nix)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:36:15 +0100
Subject: How to play sound in Python?
References: <Msved.21689$OD2.7465@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <67d5ykkr00.fsf@aster.homelinux.net>


just a quick note....

Bill Dandreta <wjdandreta at att.net> writes:

> I posted a message ("Help with my 1st Tkinter program") a few days ago
> complaining that Python did not have any built in basic cross platform
> sound capability. I was wrong (at least partly). Python comes with
> some sound playing ability for some platforms.

I remember that somebody has implemented Python bindings for the
portaudio library, which is a cross-platform library for real-time
audio.


Johannes


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sat Nov 13 14:01:14 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 14:01:14 -0500
Subject: Creating combination of sequences
In-Reply-To: <7dc80c2.0411131026.c4cf2e@posting.google.com>
References: <7dc80c2.0411131026.c4cf2e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <419659FA.7080100@rogers.com>

Minho Chae wrote:

>Hello, python lovers!!
>
>I'm trying to create combinations of sequences.
>  
>
A simple recursive generator should produce what you want while being 
fairly easy to read...

 >>> def permute( choices, length=8 ):
...     if length > 1:
...         for suffix in permute(choices,length-1):
...             for choice in choices:
...                 yield choice + suffix
...     else:
...         for choice in choices:
...             yield choice

That's not the same ordering you wanted, but that's merely a matter of 
swapping the order of choice and suffix.

HTH,
Mike

________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From someone at microsoft.com  Sat Nov 20 19:40:56 2004
From: someone at microsoft.com (Jive)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 00:40:56 GMT
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <mailman.5272.1098381729.5135.python-list@python.org><1gm17og.ctwoqv17vkctxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com><419EEEAA.D3C1046F@yahoo.com><mailman.6642.1100936758.5135.python-list@python.org><87actcrhlo.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>
	<mailman.6647.1100967514.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <suRnd.4852029$ic1.459375@news.easynews.com>

I hate to break it to you Terry, but Issac did understand the question.  The
example he gave was perhaps a little fanciful, but it was on the money.
That is exactly the kind of thing I was asking about.

More typical examples of specialization may be found in the Standard
Template Library, and in the Boost Graph Library.

When you define a function in Python, you are (in effect) defining many
functions, just as Issac says.  What the byte codes eventually do depends on
type information that is acted on at runtime.  C++ has a mechanism
(templates) for acting on the type information similarly, but at compile
time.  However, a modern C++ compiler can do something beyond that.  It can
recognize special cases (which the programmer must code for) and use a
different functional form (template) for the special case than for the
generic case.  Both STL and BGL use the mechanism extensively.

jdadson at yahoo dott com

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.6647.1100967514.5135.python-list at python.org...
>
> "Isaac To" <iketo2 at netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:87actcrhlo.fsf at sinken.local.csis.hku.hk...
>
> > "Terry" == Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:
> >>    Terry> Specialization goes in special methods -- the ones named
> >>    Terry> __xxx__ -- of which there are now 50-100.
>
> > No, you don't quite understand what the OP is asking for.
>
> No, YOU are the one who does not understand, because you apparently did
not
> do me the courtesy of reading my entire post, in which I quoted the
> question I answered.  Here again is the OP's question about *type*
> specialization *in Python*:
>
> >>> If you have, for example, several data-types for matrices, how do you
> >>> write code that will automatically find the right routine for quickly
> >>> multiplying a vector by a diagonal matrix represented as a vector, and
> >>> automatically call the right code for multiplying by a sparse matrix
> >>> represented by some sparse coding, etc?
>
> The has NOTHING to do with writing base cases in recursive C++ template
> metaprogramming (which, ironically, uses the compiler as an interpreter).
>
> Although there may be other answers now and in the future, the answer I
> gave is the straightforward standard answer for Python today.
>
> Terry J. Reedy
>
>
>




From iketo2 at netscape.net  Thu Nov 11 19:57:46 2004
From: iketo2 at netscape.net (Isaac To)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 08:57:46 +0800
Subject: I don't quite get this "string".find()
References: <mailman.6274.1100201807.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87is8bopdh.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Jaime" == Jaime Wyant <programmer.py at gmail.com> writes:

    Jaime> Will someone explain this to me?
    >>>> "test".find("")
    Jaime> 0

    Jaime> Why is the empty string found at position 0?

It is completely natural.  "test".find("es") = 1 because 1 is the
smallest x such that "test"[x:x+len("es")] == "es" (i.e., the smallest
x such that the substring of "test" from position x starts with "es").
Now what is the smallest x such that "test"[x:x+len("")] == ""?

Regards,
Isaac.


From jzheng at jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Nov 12 14:29:46 2004
From: jzheng at jpl.nasa.gov (Jason Zheng)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:29:46 -0800
Subject: popen help
Message-ID: <cn32va$3j1$1@nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov>

I'm trying to open a subshell to run some csh commands, and I want to 
connect the stdout of the subshell to the main stdout:

sub = Popen4('csh -f')
sub.tochild.write('source source.me\n')
sub.tochild.write('runthis\n')
sub.tochild.close()

for x in sub.fromchild.readlines():
   print x

The way I have it can only display everything after the execution of the 
commands that I send to the subshell. Is there a way to display the 
output as the subshell execute those commands?

Thanks in advance,


From NutJob at gmx.net  Thu Nov 18 11:20:48 2004
From: NutJob at gmx.net (Markus Kemp)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 08:20:48 -0800
Subject: Need function to test if EFFECTIVE UID has read-access to a
	file.
References: <9b96ed1.0411170915.2b88da0e@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6498.1100715267.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9b96ed1.0411180820.21447337@posting.google.com>

Hi Skip,

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.6498.1100715267.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> try:
>     f = open("somefile")
> except IOError:
>     print "file not readable"
> 

Ow, is that the only way? =( Because as I see it, open() is a
relatively costly function compared to something like os.access(), and
since I'll be calling the function thousands of times in a row it'd be
really cool if there was something similar to os.access(). But if
there isn't I guess that'll have to do ...
Thanks for helping!

Regards,

Markus


From changli_to at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 30 16:57:06 2004
From: changli_to at hotmail.com (Chang LI)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 13:57:06 -0800
Subject: A way to wait Python event
Message-ID: <89cc6e1f.0411301357.6f306893@posting.google.com>

I tried to launch "python.exe test.py" in another program. After the
launch the console was showed and exited on Windows. I want the
console stay there. Is there a Python statement to wait an event loop
like Tcl's "after forever"?


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Nov  8 03:25:43 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 09:25:43 +0100
Subject: interning strings
References: <418e1e69$0$15438$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
	<cmldpr$p0q$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<418eab10$0$13356$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <cmnagd$vtb$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Mike Thompson <none.by.e-mail> wrote:

> '==' won't help me, I'm afraid.
> 
> I need to improve the speed and memory footprint of an application which
> reads in a very large XML document.

Yes, I should have read your post carefully. But I was preoccupied with
speed...

> From?your?explanation?there?seems?to?be?no?language?rules,?just
> implementation accidents.??And?none?of?those?will?be?particularly
> helpful in my case.

With arbitrary strings the likelihood of a cache hit decreases fast. Using
your own dictionary and checking the refcounts could give you interesting
insights. Unfortunately there is no WeakDictionary with both keys and
values as weakrefs, so you have to do some work, or you will actually
_increase_ memory footprint.
 
> However, I still think I'm going to try using the builtin 'intern'
> rather than my own dict cache. That may provide an advantage, even if it
> doesn't work with unicode.
 
You might at least choose an alias

my_intern = intern 

then, lest you later regret that limitation.

Peter



From stephen_p_barrett at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  9 18:06:35 2004
From: stephen_p_barrett at hotmail.com (Steveo)
Date: 9 Nov 2004 15:06:35 -0800
Subject: Stripping HTML with RE
Message-ID: <76d8b714.0411091506.581637c0@posting.google.com>

I am currently stripping HTML from a string with the following code. 
(I know it's not the best way to strip HTML but bear with me)

re.compile("<.*?>")

I wanted to allow all H1 and H2 tags so i changed it to:

re.compile("<[^H1|^H2]*?>")

This seemed to work but it also allowed the HTML tag(basically anythin
with an H or a 1 or a 2)  How can I get this to strip all tags except
H1 and H2.  Any Help you could give would be great.

Steve


From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Mon Nov 29 08:35:28 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 00:35:28 +1100 (EST)
Subject: C API PyErr_Clear vs PyObject_HasAttrString
In-Reply-To: <41A9AD2C.1010404@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
References: <41A88448.4010501@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
	<mailman.6846.1101618272.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41A9AD2C.1010404@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20041130002444.Y82357@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Robin Becker wrote:

> > I had a look at the source (from a CVS checkout this morning), and the
> > only thing that looks like a source of such trouble would be an extension
> > class with a tp_getattr implementation.
>
> It is such a beast, but the exciting test case looks like
>
> #####################
> import _test
> g=_test.gstate()
>
> for a in ('strokeColor','strokeColor'):
> 	try:
> 		setattr(g,a,(1,2,3))
> 		print 'Wrong handling of bad '+a
> 	except ValueError:
> 		pass
> #####################
>
> so the tp_getattr slot isn't being used.

Referring to the original C code you posted, PyObject_HasAttrString() will
call the tp_getattr routine, clearing any exceptions raised as it returns.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen ACT 2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Nov 20 17:38:56 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 23:38:56 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6634.1100915976.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org><mailman.6614.1100891946.5135.python-list@python.org>	<419E6C13.1040508@v.loewis.de>
	<mailman.6634.1100915976.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <419fc77d$0$198$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> But, for whatever it is worth, the ref manual *does* label 'is not' as *an* 
> operator.  In this context, 'is not' is a compound (key)word with a space 
> (rather than a hyphen or neither).  Since English compounds can often be 
> written both with and without a space or hyphen, with the choice being a 
> matter of taste, the difference between 'IsNot' and 'Is Not' is rather 
> trivial

To a reader, but not in an implementation. I believe that Microsoft
would have allowed "foo is not Nothing" if they knew how to implement
it. In the compiler, input is split into tokens, and you can not only
have space between them, but sometimes also line breaks and comments.
It appears that the VB parser, when receiving the IsNot token,
immediately checks whether the thing it got before is an expression.
If this would have to take "is not" into account as well, it might
become more complicated.

> And 'is_not' is the CS alternate spelling of 'is not' with ' ' changed to 
> '_' (instead of '-') to indicate that the space is connective, forming a 
> compound word.

And I firmly believe that Microsoft has only "connected" spellings in 
mind, in this patent application. The option of unconnected spelling
(i.e. in multiple tokens) did not occur to them, or else they would
have given that in the examples.

> In names, Python also requires, for obvious lexical 
> reasons, connective spaces ('_'s).  Recognizing 'is not' as a unit requires 
> a special rule; 'is_not' might have been more consistent with the rest of 
> Python, but Guido was and is a keywords minimizer.  Without knowing this 
> rule, one could easily parse 'a is not b' as 'a is (not b)' like Basic 
> does.

See, in Python, there is *no* special rule for 'is' 'not'. It just falls
out naturally - the expression after 'is' just can't start with a 'not',
since only tests can start with 'not'; expressions are a special case of
test that can only start with '(', '+', '-', '~', '[', '{', '`', a name,
a number, or a string.

Regards,
Martin


From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Tue Nov 23 16:01:05 2004
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 22:01:05 +0100
Subject: Python and generic programming
In-Reply-To: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE72120C@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>
References: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE72120C@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>
Message-ID: <CA32571D-3D92-11D9-B06A-000D93AD379E@mac.com>


On 23-nov-04, at 5:56, Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy) wrote:

> And now a version that works with multiple arguments ...

PEAK (http://peak.telecommunity.com/) has an implementation of generic 
functions in its repository. It seems to be more complete than your 
version ;)

Ronald



From mauriceling at acm.org  Sat Nov  6 18:44:19 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 10:44:19 +1100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5999.1099743679.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<mailman.5999.1099743679.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418D61D3.3040904@acm.org>


> Not only that, but Maurice Ling has started a long thread a few weeks
> looking for a good research topic for his thesis (involving Java &
> Python, btw). At some points he was bashed, but went ahead with the
> discussion, that ended up touching in several interesting topics.

Thank you. You can do a google search and find my details anyway. Don't 
have to go around guessing my details. I have no idea of the motives of 
whoever that highlight "unimelb.edu.au". Does he have a problem with my 
institution or what, I am not bothered, as I am only a student. Email to 
the Vice Chancellor if he has a point to make, don't take it out on me, 
I don't have the title of a Professor prefixing my name.

There is a Chinese saying "waves do not happen without wind." If my 
impression of Python and Java is flawed, I am seriously wondering where 
it came from? Is it all due to benchmark data from years ago?

Before I am accused of trolling etc etc again, let me say this all over 
again. I am using both Python and Java actively and had contributed to 
BioPython project as well.

> 
> As for the climate in c.l.py, it's just interesting to note that the
> climate *is* getting less friendly, and that it does coincide with
> several old-timers moving away from the list. A few years ago I
> remember that the likes of Tim Peters, effbot, Skip Montanaro, and
> several others (sorry, I would really like to remember more names from
> the top of my head) were frequent posters here. They've now moved to
> other interests, or are focusing their efforts on the python-dev list.
> It must not be a coincidence.
> 
Maybe as the old-timers go off, the next batch of old-timers feel that 
it is too much to handle. Nobody requires anyone to answer to all 
threads.....

Thanks
Maurice


From valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk  Fri Nov 19 23:23:21 2004
From: valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk (Valkyrie)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 12:23:21 +0800
Subject: Question about thread
In-Reply-To: <419e616c$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <1100875373.911763@eng-ser6>
	<306ic5F2svtsdU1@uni-berlin.de>	<1100879122.755150@eng-ser4>
	<mailman.6607.1100881214.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1100882500.311734@eng-ser4> <419e616c$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <1100924597.262629@eng-ser4>

I just looked up for the keywords "python thread example" in google and few
useful links are retrieved. It seems that most of the examples are too complicated.

Scott David Daniels wrote:
> Valkyrie wrote:
> 
>>Thank you for your advice. I have quite seriously searched for it in fact, but
>>just without the luck on finding such article...
> 
> Can you suggest where this information might have shown up
> that you would have found it?  If so, you may want to submit
> a documentation bug or patch request.  That is, repay the
> group by making it more likely that the next person with your
> problem finds their answer on their own.
> 
> --Scott David Daniels
> Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Nov  9 08:53:45 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 08:53:45 -0500
Subject: Simple thread pools
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6134.1099960287.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <20041108101014.F879.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<418FD827.7090007@holdenweb.com>
	<mailman.6134.1099960287.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4190CBE9.5050801@holdenweb.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

> Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> 
> [snip prior portions of the conversation as it was getting long]
> 
> 
>>It's not particularly surprising that communicating the same amount of 
>>information across more threads (and pipelines) on the same machine 
>>shows the thread-management activity starting to become significant.
>>
>>However, in the case where I'm trying to send customer statements out by 
>>email I still maintain that it's quicker (i.e. a given number of mails 
>>will be sent out in less elapsed time) to have 200 threads running in 
>>parallel (each typically communicating with a separate mail server) than 
>>it is to use (say) 30 threads.
>>
>>While I agree that overall I may end up using more local CPU, I'm happy 
>>to use it because it means I can send over 10,000 emails an hour. Are 
>>you suggesting it would go more quickly with fewer threads? This 
>>certainly contradicts my testing results.
>>
>>Although your program imports the socket library it doesn't appear to 
>>use it, so I remain unconvinced of what you say. I do accept that we may 
>>be talking at cross purposes, however, since I'm unable to get 
>>www.pycs.net to respond and show me the original code on which the OP's 
>>question was based.
> 
> 
> I had initially planned to create a listening socket, and generate a
> bunch of local sockets, then I remembered os.pipe and said to myself, "to
> hell with it, pipes should be faster, they bypass the network stack".
> 
Of course the example is then all running on the one machine, which 
might influence elapsed times in a way that having servers remote 
wouldn't, but it was a neat example just the same.

> 
> As they sometimes say, "there is more than one way to skin a cat",
> though let us hope that there isn't any cat skinning.
> 
> If your processor spends time maxed out by your script, then you may do
> better by reducing threads (processor limited, and not bandwidth/latency
> limited).  As thread count increases, you spend more processor handling
> overhead.  If it isn't maxed out, and you are running at the file handle
> limit and/or the bandwidth limit, congrats.
> 
Well I'm happy to say I don't appear to be running at *any* limit just 
at the moment. But clearly when you are CPU-limited then there's a 
balance to be struck between thread-handling overhead and applications 
processing.
> 
> Now, just because you are using fewer threads, doesn't mean that you
> can't get equivalent throughput.  Heck, using a heavily modified variant
> of asyncore, we've been able to handle 50,000 POP3 account checks (login,
> stat, and if necessary: list, uidl, download email, delete email,
> disconnect) every 15 minutes from a laptop.  Our biggest issue is
> latency of our connection, but even then, we do well considering that
> this is all with a single thread.
> 
The owner of that laptop needs to be given some work. Even *I* don't 
check my mail every second :-)

I see we were indeed at cross purposes. The load I'm talking about is 
bursty in the extreme - I am communicating with the MX hosts for each of 
the receiving domains, and it takes less than 100ms to send some mails.

For others I have to try several MX hosts to get any response at all 
(each one with a 20-second timeout), and the reason I went to the 
multi-threaded solution int he first place was to avoid having the whole 
process wait on a single recalcitrant MX host.

The client is very happy, as we've seen in increase in reliability and a 
48-fold speed up in elapsed time as a result of the (rather painful) 
transition to multi-threading. This is clearly justification for using 
200 parallel threads, as on many threads the dominant factor in the 
elapsed time is the remote server response (or absence thereof).

The cases you are taking about may well require a more careful 
consideration of threading overhead.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Thu Nov 11 06:00:23 2004
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:00:23 +0100
Subject: web hosting with Python
In-Reply-To: <6f402501.0411110147.69ef6800@posting.google.com>
References: <3cccb1d8.0411101416.690960c3@posting.google.com>
	<6f402501.0411110147.69ef6800@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41934648$0$48933$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Michael Foord wrote:
> http://www.sapphiresoft.co.uk
> are very good. (Good python support, python 2.3.4).

It doesn't say so on their website, it appears a PHP shop...
Or am I looking with my eyes closed?

--Irmen


From jeffrey at fro.man  Thu Nov 25 19:00:57 2004
From: jeffrey at fro.man (Jeffrey Froman)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 16:00:57 -0800
Subject: dictionary initialization
References: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <10qctgtr150bl4b@corp.supernews.com>

Weiguang Shi wrote:

> With awk, I can do something like
> $?echo?'hello'?|awk?'{a[$1]++}END{for(i?in?a)print?i,?a[i]}'
> 
> That is, a['hello'] was not there but allocated and initialized to
> zero upon reference.
> 
> With Python ... <snip>
> I have to initialize b[1] explicitly in the first place.

You could use the dictionary's setdefault method, if your value is mutable:

>>> b={}
>>> for n in xrange(100):
...     b.setdefault('foo', [0])[0] += 1
... 
>>> b['foo'][0]
100

   Jeffrey


From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Nov 22 18:08:25 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:08:25 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <ed63q05h3kidil8m4gv85q9hord6gq56jp@4ax.com>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.6614.1100891946.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<419E6C13.1040508@v.loewis.de>
	<ed63q05h3kidil8m4gv85q9hord6gq56jp@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <41A27169.5000100@v.loewis.de>

Tim Roberts wrote:
> Claims 1, 15, and 21 are the only independent claims.  If claim 1 is deemed
> invalid, because of the obvious prior art, then all the claims that
> elaborate upon it (that is, 2 through 14) are also invalid.

Is that really the case? My understanding of patents is that, even if
the more general claim might not be granted, a more specific one might
be. For example

1. a device to move from point A to point B

2. a device like in claim 1, at a speed faster than light

Clearly, 1 is not novel, but 2 is, so claim 2 might be granted. Then,
people could still build cars and planes, but need a license to build
a rocket that travels faster than light.

My understanding is that things were slightly different if somebody
else would already hold a patent on claim 1 (or be granted such a
patent later). Then anybody building a car would need a license from
that inventor, and anybody building a rocket that travels faster than
light would need *two* licenses: one to build vehicles at all, and
one for the very fast ones. This would include the patent holder
of claim 2 himself, who would also need a license to build his own
invention (for the "move from A to B" part).

Of course, my understanding of patents might be completely wrong.

Regards,
Martin


From behnel_ml at gkec.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de  Tue Nov 30 08:26:31 2004
From: behnel_ml at gkec.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:26:31 +0100
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.4 (final)
In-Reply-To: <8sGdnQjN6qGu7THcRVn-3A@rcn.net>
References: <mailman.6913.1101817983.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8sGdnQjN6qGu7THcRVn-3A@rcn.net>
Message-ID: <cohse7$kvs$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>


Dave Merrill schrieb:
> Newb question: Is it possible/recommended  to have multiple versions of
> Python installed simultaneously? Earlier, I installed 2.4rc1, and a number
> of things in my 2.3.3 install stopped working. Are there known techniques
> for managing multiple versions?

Short answer: depends on your OS.

I assume "stopped working" means: libraries were missing. This means that 
"managing multiple versions" already works for you. The libraries are 
installed for Python 2.3 and only 2.3 uses them. That's the expected 
behaviour. Install them for 2.4 as well and everything should work fine.

Stefan


From amk at amk.ca  Wed Nov 24 12:50:58 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:50:58 -0600
Subject: XUL Parser?
References: <mailman.6758.1101313933.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Ya-dnTB88a2fVzncRVn-ug@speakeasy.net>

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:31:56 +0000, 
	Alex Stapleton <alexs at advfn.com> wrote:
> Is there a Python XUL parser which will create GUIs in a Mozilla like 
> fashion for me? I've had a poke around but the closest I could find was 
> Luxor, and thats Jython bound (which isn't feasible.)

I'm not aware of any.  Considering that there's no real XUL specification,
implementing a XUL renderer would be difficult.  Note that Luxor implements
its own format, also called XUL, that has nothing to do with the XUL
implemented by Mozilla.

--amk


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Nov 16 12:04:36 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:04:36 -0600
Subject: Idiom for default values when unpacking a tuple
In-Reply-To: <l6qmd.34062$Zr3.23130@fe1.texas.rr.com>
References: <l6qmd.34062$Zr3.23130@fe1.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20041116170434.GB27951@unpythonic.net>

A function to pad a tuple to a given length is not hard to write.
[l] * i is empty if i <= 0, otherwise it has i repetitions of l.

def pad(t,l):
    return t + (None,) * (l - len(t))

tup = (1,2)
a, b, c = pad(tup, 3)
print a, b, c

Jeff
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Nov  2 10:50:43 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 10:50:43 -0500
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<Xns9591642B12E85duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<slrncoeo0g.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upaauF2e8107U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cm8acj$pps$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <2upaauF2e8107U1 at uni-berlin.de>,
Diez B. Roggisch <deets.nospaaam at web.de> wrote:
>Gabriel Zachmann wrote:
>>attribution lost:
>>>
>>>      printf("value is %d", f);
>> 
>> Note that this is also an example showing that C++ does contain a little
>> bit of dynamic typing, too, isn't it?
>
>Where do you get that idea from? Modern compilers are aware of printf,
>and have special type-checking rules built into them that verify
>that you pass the right number and types of arguments for the format
>string. And thats totally static, as it is done at compiletime!

The format string has to be static?  That's news to me.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Nov 17 14:21:07 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:21:07 -0800
Subject: Python 2.2 on Red Hat
In-Reply-To: <9b6f95cb.0411170639.6e5c45fc@posting.google.com>
References: <BDC02405.3068%oct@redcatmedia.net>
	<9b6f95cb.0411170639.6e5c45fc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10pn8vs3cbinnfb@corp.supernews.com>

David Ripton wrote:

>Andy Jacobs <oct at redcatmedia.net> wrote in message news:<BDC02405.3068%oct at redcatmedia.net>...
>
>  
>
>>I'm trying to install some anti spam software called ASK.  This relies on
>>Python2.2 whereas my Cobalt RAQ4 is running 1.5.2 so I need to upgrade from
>>RPM.
>>    
>>
>
>RedHat uses Python 1.5.2 for key OS tools like the Anaconda installer.
> Upgrading /usr/bin/python to something newer than 1.5.2 will break
>them.
>
>So you need to put a newer Python somewhere else.
>

Just for reference,  Red Hat's standard method of dealing with this 
issue was for RPMs to install newer versions of Python as 'python2', so 
that invoking the standard 'python' (as their scripts do) gives you 
1.5.2 but specifying 'python2' gives you the 2.x version. 

I can't offer any suggestions about where to find a binary python2 RPM 
for RH6, but this trick may be very helpful when you build your own from 
source.  (I'd be a bit reluctant to rely on path ordering and 
environment juju to ensure that the correct Python version were 
called... but maybe I'm just paranoid due to lesser familiarity.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov 26 13:19:50 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 19:19:50 +0100
Subject: PEP263 + exec statement
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6806.1101470454.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6806.1101470454.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41a773c3$0$22704$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> It does not
> issue any warning when fed with arbitrary code that includes non-ASCII
> characters. I am not sure if this is:
> 
> 1) a design feature;
> 2) a bug on PEP 263 implementation;
> 3) a side effect of the fact that exec is not recommended anyway, and
> that it will probably be deprecated at some point.

It is rather

4) almost out of scope of PEP 263, which, in its first sentence,
    restricts itself to Python source *files*

There are a few places where Python source code is not stored
in files, namely:
- exec
- eval
- compile
- interactive mode
- IDLE shell

The PEP isn't really precise on what to do in these cases, it certainly
isn't fair to require an encoding declaration in all of them. In
particular, for interactive mode, it is undesirable to require such a
declaration. It is also unnecessary, since, in interactive mode, you
almost certainly know the encoding from sys.stdin.encoding.

So Python 2.4 will use sys.stdin.encoding for code entered in
interactive mode. My plan is that compile() grows an argument
to specify the encoding of the string, falling back to ASCII
if none is specified. Then, exec and eval would not need to
be modified - people who want to specify an encoding outside
of the source itself could pass a code object to exec or eval,
instead of directly passing the string to these constructs.
This would also take care of IDLE, which internally uses
compile().

I have implemented these changes, but I was a little bit too
late to submit them for Python 2.4.

Regards,
Martin


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Wed Nov 10 06:51:38 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 11:51:38 GMT
Subject: Learning curve - was: Re: Tutorials on Windows GUI programming
	with
References: <oP_jd.6307$Km6.159982@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<mailman.6158.1100012138.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmqmdc$rnk$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>
	<mailman.6163.1100015397.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncp3vt8.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-11-09, F?bio Mendes schreef <niels_bohr at uol.com.br>:
> This is how it works :)
>
>           |      / (C)
>           |     /
>           |    /
>           |   /
> Effort    |  /
> Required  |  |        ____ (Python :)
>           |  |   ____/
>           | /___/
>           |/___________________
>                 Capability
>
> You can have the following scenarion if you put a lot of effort on the
> wrong directions (ex.: learning metaclasses to do simple admin scripts),
> the former lacks such ambiguity.
>
>            |
>            |
>            |
>            |          ____ ....
> Capability |         /
>            |  __    /
>            | /  \__/
>            |/
>            |___________________
>                 Time
>
> Fabio

No, that is not a learning curve. A learning curve has on the X-axis
the number of repetions and on the Y axis, the time to complete one
repetion. So the more you have repeated a task, the more you learned
about it, the better you became at it, the lesser time you needed
to complete it. And yes steep learning curves mean that you become
proficient at the task fast. But it is steep downwards.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Nov  5 03:40:02 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 00:40:02 -0800
Subject: Modification to asyncore.py to support threaded event loop
In-Reply-To: <8548c5f3.0411042329.109c23c1@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.5924.1099592900.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8548c5f3.0411042329.109c23c1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041105003301.F833.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Pillai) wrote:
> 
> I tried your code and this is the result...

[snip exception]

> asyncore does not have an attribute named 'map', only socket_map.
> 'map' is an argument to ascynore.loop function, again not its
> attribute.

socket_map then, whatever.


> Did you try this code out before posting it here? 

No, I typed it out in my email client.  But my statement still holds,
the functionality is trivial to implement if you know what you are doing,
and shouldn't be in the asyncore module.


> Also, asyncore.loop has a while loop inside it, and you are adding
> another while loop on top. Clearly your exit condition, if it works is
> going to only exit the outer while loop, not the inner one. I dont
> think it is going to work.

If you check the source code for asyncore.py in Python 2.4 (available
from Python CVS), you will discover that you can provide an optional
'count' argument to asyncore.loop.  You'll notice that I both mention
it:

> > With the asyncore that will be included with Python 2.4, loop() has a
> > 'count' argument.  Your 'programmable exit condition' is simple...

and use it:

> >         asyncore.loop(timeout=30.0, use_poll=False, map=map, count=1)

In this case, the 'inner loop' only runs for one pass.  Certainly in
Python <2.4, it would run without stopping (unless the socket map became
empty), but I was referencing 2.4, not 2.3 or prior.


 - Josiah



From mj.clift at virgin.net  Mon Nov  8 17:07:17 2004
From: mj.clift at virgin.net (Malcolm Clift)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 14:07:17 -0800
Subject: range and wx co - ords
Message-ID: <a86fb13f.0411081407.3a382a6b@posting.google.com>

Hi All,

Using wx, I'm trying to draw all items in a range of 50 in a text at
certain co -ordinates (a simply textwrap) . A while back Alex Martelli
was kind enough to give me the following to work with ;

for i in range(len(text)):
    dc.DrawText(text, 100, 100 + ( i // 50 *200)

I have slightly changed this to control the spacing between the
letters by adding this;

dc.DrawText(text[i], 100 + ( i * 12 ), 100 + (i//50)*200)

This starts the new line at the right y co-ordinate, but the x remains
at the position where the last line finished. Would anyone know how to
start the line from the starting x co - ords?


I have had an idea to do it another way, but need some help with this
also.

for i in range(len(text), 50)):
    spacer = 200
    dc.DrawText(text[i], 100 + ( i * 12 ), 100 + spacer )

This of course just draws the items at the every 50 mark, as you might
gather, what I want to say is that for every 50 items draw them at
these co - ordinates then go on to the next 50.



Thanks for any help,

Malcolm


From deepak.sarda at gmail.com  Sat Nov  6 21:34:40 2004
From: deepak.sarda at gmail.com (Deepak Sarda)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 10:34:40 +0800
Subject: checking a thread has started
In-Reply-To: <20041106151355.F859.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <20041106092443.F851.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<eaac783a04110610297363ac6d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20041106151355.F859.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <eaac783a04110618344c1d5952@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 15:18:59 -0800, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Deepak Sarda <deepak.sarda at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 09:30:59 -0800, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
> > This seems like a way to workaround the problem. I'll try it on Monday
> > and get back if it works. But this does bring up the point that
> > threading.Thread() should provide some mechanism by which a thread's
> > inability to start should be known. a return value or something. (I am
> > a newbie to threads - python is the first language I am trying threads
> > in so please educate me if I have wrong notions! :-)
> 
> If a thread doesn't start due to lack of resources, I think it should be
> raising an exception.
> 

I would think so too. But it isn't. If you look at the code in
threading.py - there' s this line:

def start(self):
     [snip]
     _sleep(0.000001)    # 1 usec, to let the thread run (Solaris hack)

Does apache need a similar hack?


> As an aside, I wrote a little script that creates 1000 threads, does a
> busy loop for a short time, then exits; it had no problems with a few
> hundred threads at a time (though it was a bit slow), and I didn't see
> any exceptions.  Perhaps I should have been incrementing a counter when
> it started and finished.
> 
> 

But did you run it through apache? For me, the script runs fine
locally - it's only when run through apache that I get this problem.

> > > As an aside, are you sure you need 15 threads?  Seems a little over the
> > > top to me.
> >
> > I do. This program sits on top of a cluster and ferries jobs to the
> > compute nodes - an embarrassingly parallel problem with fifteen
> > subtasks.
> 
> Sounds like a job for asyncore (if you can handle asynchronous
> servers/clients).

I've never user asyncore before. I just read it's documentation and it
seems to be organized around sockets. I don't think I want this I am
not directly communicating with remote nodes.  The actual movement of
jobs to the nodes is done by the Sun Grid Engine software sitting on
the head node. I just create jobs and submit it to the local engine
through a os.spawnl() call in each thread. The engine then decides
which node is free and sends the job(s) there.

-- 

Online: http://www.antrix.net/journal/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  1 03:17:05 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:17:05 +0200
Subject: saved sys.path
References: <%Xmhd.29071$g4.544104@news2.nokia.com>
Message-ID: <1gmkht7.1e1lg86qerk5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Bengt dePaulis <bdp003 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I have a local directory that I want to include in my sys.path
> 
> How to save it permanently?

Add to the site-packages directory of your Python instalation a textfile
named for example bengt.pth (name doesn't matter, extension does, and
must be lowercase) with the line of text:

/path/to/the/directory/you/mant


Alex


From andreas at kostyrka.org  Mon Nov 22 04:14:17 2004
From: andreas at kostyrka.org (Andreas Kostyrka)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:14:17 +0100
Subject: readlines() with large file raises: IOError: [Errno 12] Cannot
	allocate memory
In-Reply-To: <10500383.1101114384879.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail-01.arcor-online.net>
References: <10500383.1101114384879.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail-01.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <20041122091417.GA12391@kostyrka.org>

On Mon, Nov 22, 2004 at 10:06:24AM +0100, nicogrubert at arcor.de wrote:
> Hi there
>  
> I am trying to read the content of a really large text file (1GByte) and I get
> the following exception if I try to call readlines() on the opened textfile:
> 
>     IOError: [Errno 12] Cannot allocate memory
> 
> 
> This is my code:
> INFILE="/home/myuser/myfile"
> open_infile = open( INFILE, 'r' )
> lines = open_infile.readlines()
> 
> 
> Any idea whats going on there?
> Does pyhon tries to put the content into machine's RAM (512 MB) which is not big enough so an
> exception is raised?
Exactly.

If you just want to read it line by line:
linecount = 0
for line in open_infile:
    linecount += 1
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Nico
> 
> Arcor-DSL: die echte Flatrate f?r alle Bandbreiten. Jetzt ohne Einrichtungspreis
> einsteigen oder wechseln. Arcor-DSL ist in vielen Anschlussgebieten verf?gbar.
> http://www.arcor.de/home/redir.php/emf-dsl-1
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From antonmuhin at rambler.ru  Mon Nov  1 08:02:14 2004
From: antonmuhin at rambler.ru (anton muhin)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 16:02:14 +0300
Subject: itertools: followup to Alex Martelli problem ("number-in-base"
 ``oneliner'')   and Bengt Richter solution
In-Reply-To: <2umpjtF2b2k17U1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2umpjtF2b2k17U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <2umqeoF2bmv1hU1@uni-berlin.de>

Oops, it not y-combinator itself, but rather releated thing, sorry.

And as followup: iter(callable, sentinel) seems a little bit too 
restricted for me. The reason is simple: no params are passed to 
callable and, therefore, it is usually should return the same value. Of 
course, there are a lot of callable things in Python that don't behave 
this way, but shouldn't iter have interface like iter(callable, params) 
that would generated iterator [x, f(x), f(f(x)), ...] that can be stoped 
with itertools.takewhile if needed?

with the best regards,
anton.


From pjain at datatekcorp.com  Sun Nov 28 16:40:49 2004
From: pjain at datatekcorp.com (Puneet Jain)
Date: 28 Nov 2004 13:40:49 -0800
Subject: accessing Microsoft Works document through COM interface in Python
Message-ID: <691b8e39.0411281340.6b7bef@posting.google.com>

I am tryin to use Microsoft Works Wordprocessor from Python

After generating the .py module from the type library using makepy
utility, I runt he following commands,

>>> from win32com.client import Dispatch
>>> object = Dispatch("MicrosoftWorks.WordProcessor.AppControl")

and I get the following error,
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32com\client\__init__.py",
line 95, in Dispatch
    dispatch, userName =
dynamic._GetGoodDispatchAndUserName(dispatch,userName,clsctx)
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py",
line 91, in _GetGoodDispatchAndUserName
    return (_GetGoodDispatch(IDispatch, clsctx), userName)
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py",
line 79, in _GetGoodDispatch
    IDispatch = pythoncom.CoCreateInstance(IDispatch, None, clsctx,
pythoncom.IID_IDispatch)
com_error: (-2147467262, 'No such interface supported', None, None)

It seems like IDispatch is not implemented by Microsoft Works
WordProcessor.

The .py module generated from type library is below
# -*- coding: mbcs -*-
# Created by makepy.py version 0.4.91
# By python version 2.3.4 (#53, May 25 2004, 21:17:02) [MSC v.1200 32
bit (Intel)]
# From type library 'wkwpac.dll'
# On Sun Nov 28 11:27:37 2004
"""Microsoft Works Word Processor 5.0 Type Library"""
makepy_version = '0.4.91'
python_version = 0x20304f0

import win32com.client.CLSIDToClass, pythoncom
import win32com.client.util
from pywintypes import IID
from win32com.client import Dispatch

# The following 3 lines may need tweaking for the particular server
# Candidates are pythoncom.Missing and pythoncom.Empty
defaultNamedOptArg=pythoncom.Empty
defaultNamedNotOptArg=pythoncom.Empty
defaultUnnamedArg=pythoncom.Empty

CLSID = IID('{F1269C08-8A8A-11D2-B46F-FA00AD000000}')
MajorVersion = 5
MinorVersion = 0
LibraryFlags = 8
LCID = 0x0

from win32com.client import CoClassBaseClass
# This CoClass is known by the name
'MicrosoftWorks.WordProcessor.AppControl.5'
class AcWp(CoClassBaseClass): # A CoClass
	# Microsoft Works Word Processor AppControl
	CLSID = IID('{0FF3639A-8A82-11D2-B46F-FA00AD000000}')
	coclass_sources = [
	]
	coclass_interfaces = [
	]

IAcWp_vtables_dispatch_ = 0
IAcWp_vtables_ = [
	(('InitNewDocument', 'bstrTemplate'), 4096, (4096, (), [(8, 0, None,
None)], 1, 1, 4, 0, 40, (3, 0, None, None), 0)),
	(('DisplayHelpTopic', 'bstrTopic'), 4097, (4097, (), [(8, 0, None,
None)], 1, 1, 4, 0, 44, (3, 0, None, None), 0)),
	(('DisplayHelpTopicWithoutFocus', 'bstrTopic'), 4113, (4113, (), [(8,
0, None, None)], 1, 1, 4, 0, 48, (3, 0, None, None), 0)),
	(('GetQDManager', 'ppIUnk'), 1610743811, (1610743811, (), [(16397,
10, None, None)], 1, 1, 4, 0, 52, (3, 0, None, None), 0)),
	(('GetQDEdit', 'ppIUnk'), 1610743812, (1610743812, (), [(16397, 10,
None, None)], 1, 1, 4, 0, 56, (3, 0, None, None), 0)),
	(('GetWindow', 'pVal'), 1610743813, (1610743813, (), [(16387, 10,
None, None)], 1, 1, 4, 0, 60, (3, 0, None, None), 0)),
	(('GetDWMeasurementUnit', 'pdwUnit'), 1610743814, (1610743814, (),
[(16387, 10, None, None)], 1, 1, 4, 0, 64, (3, 0, None, None), 0)),
	(('SetWABVariant', 'pvar'), 1610743815, (1610743815, (), [(16396, 10,
None, None)], 1, 1, 4, 0, 68, (3, 0, None, None), 0)),
	(('MailMergeViewResults',), 1610743816, (1610743816, (), [], 1, 1, 4,
0, 72, (3, 0, None, None), 0)),
	(('KillMailMergeness',), 1610743817, (1610743817, (), [], 1, 1, 4, 0,
76, (3, 0, None, None), 0)),
]

IWfxAppControl_vtables_dispatch_ = 0
IWfxAppControl_vtables_ = [
	(('Initialize', 'pIWksFrame'), 1, (1, (), [(13, 1, None, None)], 1,
1, 4, 0, 12, (3, 0, None, None), 0)),
	(('ProcessCommandLine', 'bstrCommandLine'), 2, (2, (), [(8, 1, None,
None)], 1, 1, 4, 0, 16, (3, 0, None, None), 0)),
	(('PreProcessFrameMessage', 'uMsg', 'wParam', 'lParam', 'plResult'),
3, (3, (), [(3, 1, None, None), (19, 1, None, None), (3, 1, None,
None), (16387, 2, None, None)], 1, 1, 4, 0, 20, (3, 0, None, None),
0)),
	(('PostProcessFrameMessage', 'uMsg', 'wParam', 'lParam', 'plResult'),
4, (4, (), [(3, 1, None, None), (19, 1, None, None), (3, 1, None,
None), (16387, 2, None, None)], 1, 1, 4, 0, 24, (3, 0, None, None),
0)),
	(('ShowWindowFirstTime', 'hWndFrame', 'nCmdShow'), 5, (5, (), [(36,
1, None, None), (3, 1, None, None)], 1, 1, 4, 0, 28, (3, 0, None,
None), 0)),
	(('CloseWindowFinalTime', 'hWndFrame'), 6, (6, (), [(36, 1, None,
None)], 1, 1, 4, 0, 32, (3, 0, None, None), 0)),
	(('QueryClose',), 7, (7, (), [], 1, 1, 4, 0, 36, (3, 0, None, None),
0)),
]

RecordMap = {
	'__MIDL_IWinTypes_0009': '{00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000}',
}

CLSIDToClassMap = {
	'{0FF3639A-8A82-11D2-B46F-FA00AD000000}' : AcWp,
}
CLSIDToPackageMap = {}
win32com.client.CLSIDToClass.RegisterCLSIDsFromDict( CLSIDToClassMap )
VTablesToPackageMap = {}
VTablesToClassMap = {
	'{3A8D7EFA-737C-11D2-A379-00C04F72DA81}' : 'IWfxAppControl',
	'{F1269C09-8A8A-11D2-B46F-FA00AD000000}' : 'IAcWp',
}


NamesToIIDMap = {
	'IWfxAppControl' : '{3A8D7EFA-737C-11D2-A379-00C04F72DA81}',
	'IAcWp' : '{F1269C09-8A8A-11D2-B46F-FA00AD000000}',
}


So, I thought I would try to using the native interfaces to get the
correct object,

The generated .py file as a few different IIDs and I am not sure how
to select which one to use. After some trials and errors, I could get
the following to work,

>>> from pythoncom import CoCreateInstance
>>> object = CoCreateInstance(IID('{0FF3639A-8A82-11D2-B46F-FA00AD000000}'),
None, pythoncom.CLSCTX_INPROC_SERVER, pythoncom.IID_IUnknown)

Now I have been trying to use the QueryInterface to get the correct
object and none of the IIDs mentioned in the generated file are
helping.

Appreciate if someone can help me with some pointers here as I think I
am a bit confused.

Thanks in Advance.

Puneet


From evenprimes at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 15:26:56 2004
From: evenprimes at gmail.com (Chris Cioffi)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 15:26:56 -0500
Subject: extending file?
Message-ID: <f03f4fdf04110112265002c40e@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

Are there any docs or examples of extending the file type?  I work
with EDI messages that are very like text files, just with a few
quirks. ;-)  and I was wondering if I could strech and twist the built
in file type to make things a bit faster and more full featured.

Specifically I would need to alter the iterator and ideally the line terminitor.

Chris
-- 
<a href="http://spreadfirefox.com/community/?q=affiliates&id=0&t=1">Get
Firefox!</a>


From phleum_nospam at chello.se  Thu Nov 25 13:39:10 2004
From: phleum_nospam at chello.se (Carl)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 19:39:10 +0100
Subject: How do you execute external programs from Python?
Message-ID: <iGppd.2045$3N5.117@amstwist00>

Hi,

I have this little code snippet that I use for recording audio streams. My
problem is that I want to schedule my recordings with crontab. This does
not work, however. I cannot figure out why; my code works fine when run
manually from the command prompt. 

On final thing: What would be the best way to turn off the recording?

Can someone help me?

Carl


Here is my code:

import time
import os
import shutil

URL = "http://www.jazzandblues.org/listen/links/kkjz1.ram"

def RecordURL(what = "KKJZ"):
    str_mplayer = "mplayer -playlist " + URL
    str_mplayer += " -ao pcm -aofile "
    str_mplayer += what + ".wav" + " -vc dummy -vo null"
    os.system(str_mplayer)

def CreateOGG(what = "KKJZ"):
    ogg_file = what + ".ogg"
    str_oggenc = "oggenc " + what + ".wav"
    os.system(str_oggenc)

def CreateMP3(what = "KKJZ"):
    mp3_file = what + ".mp3"
    str_lame = "lame " + what + ".wav " + mp3_file
    os.system(str_lame)

def DeleteWAV(what = "KKJZ"):
    wav_file = what + ".wav"
    str_rm = "rm " + wav_file
    os.system(str_rm)

def DateTag(what = "KKJZ"):
    local_time = time.asctime(time.localtime())
    for local_file in [ what + ".ogg", what + ".mp3" ]:
        length = len(local_file)
        local_file_copy = local_file[: length - 4] + "_" + local_time + "."
+ local_file[length - 3 :]
        shutil.copy(local_file, local_file_copy)
            
RecordURL()
## CreateOGG()
## CreateMP3()
## DeleteWAV()
## DateTag()

Here is my crontab entry:

30 * * * * python -c "import os; os.chdir('/home/alpha/mymusic/P2/Jazz/');
import KKJZ"




From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 10:40:30 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:40:30 GMT
Subject: How to get an item from a simple set?
In-Reply-To: <mzx7xo74.fsf@wgmail2.gatwick.eur.slb.com>
References: <mzx7xo74.fsf@wgmail2.gatwick.eur.slb.com>
Message-ID: <OX1pd.561230$mD.125849@attbi_s02>

Pete Forman wrote:
> I have a set that contains one item.  What is the best way of getting
> at that item?  Using pop() empties the set.  Here is what I've tried.

This is what tuple unpacking is for:

 >>> s = set(['foo'])
 >>> item, = s
 >>> item
'foo'
 >>> [item] = s
 >>> item
'foo'

It's up to you whether you like the tuple or list syntax better. =)

Steve


From przemas_r at o2.pl  Thu Nov 18 13:58:09 2004
From: przemas_r at o2.pl (przemas_r at o2.pl)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 19:58:09 +0100
Subject: os.system vs os.system inside thread -> why is there any
	difference?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6548.1100788222.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cng2gp$mup$1@julia.coi.pw.edu.pl>	<mailman.6504.1100719376.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cngl20$6el$1@julia.coi.pw.edu.pl>
	<mailman.6548.1100788222.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <419CF0C1.9070507@o2.pl>

I've tested the code you sent. Obviously the result was the one, you 
reffered to as python 2.2.2 or 2.3.2 specific.
Ok, so it's high time I switched to new 2.4.x release.

Thanks again for clarifying me this issue.


Jeff Epler wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 18, 2004 at 12:00:06AM +0100, przemas_r at o2.pl wrote:
> 
>>Thanks for the answer.
> 
> 
> You're welcome.  I'm sorry it didn't work out.
> 
> I wrote a pair of standalone programs (no need for arping) to check this
> behavior.  The bad news is that my program failed on 2.2.2 and 2.3.2.
> It only succeed on a CVS version of Python 2.4b2.
> 
> To run the test, "python prz.py".  It should print "0" twice, because
> each time "alarmed.py" should exit from within the SIGALRM signal
> handler.  On 2.2 and 2.3, it prints "0" (works in the main thread) then
> "1" (doesn't work in another thread)
> 
> Jeff
> 
> Subprogram "alarmed.py":
> #------------------------------------------------------------------------
> #!/usr/bin/python
> import signal, time, sys, os
> signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, lambda *args: sys.exit(0))
> os.kill(os.getpid(), signal.SIGALRM)
> sys.exit(1)
> #------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Main program "prz.py":
> #------------------------------------------------------------------------
> import threading
> import os
> import signal
> 
> def system(s):
>     p = os.fork()
>     if p == 0:
>         os.execvp("/bin/sh", ['sh', '-c', s])
>         os._exit(99)
>     else:
>         p, status = os.waitpid(p, 0);
>         return os.WEXITSTATUS(status)
> 
> class T(threading.Thread):
>     def run(self):
>         print system("python alarmed.py")
> 
> t = T()
> t.run()
> 
> t = T()
> t.start()
> t.join()
> #------------------------------------------------------------------------


From valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk  Fri Nov 19 11:41:39 2004
From: valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk (Valkyrie)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 00:41:39 +0800
Subject: Question about thread
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6607.1100881214.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <1100875373.911763@eng-ser6>
	<306ic5F2svtsdU1@uni-berlin.de>	<1100879122.755150@eng-ser4>
	<mailman.6607.1100881214.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1100882500.311734@eng-ser4>

Thank you for your advice. I have quite seriously searched for it in fact, but
just without the luck on finding such article...

Craig Ringer wrote:
> On Fri, 2004-11-19 at 23:45, Valkyrie wrote:
> 
>>When I do it line by line in python's console, I have similar result to youl.
>>But when I try to run it in a file, say:
>>
>>python demo.py
>>
>>It just returns me nothing. I have no idea on this right now...
> 
> 
> You need to cause the main thread to wait on the child threads until
> they've all finished, otherwise - as Peter Hickman just mentioned - your
> script will terminate and all threads will end. Ten seconds on Google
> found this:
> 
> http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/1364
> 
> --
> Craig Ringer
> 


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov  1 16:41:04 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 16:41:04 -0500
Subject: Flushing stdout
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.01.21.34.53.44206@cmedltd.com>
References: <pan.2004.11.01.21.34.53.44206@cmedltd.com>
Message-ID: <79yhd.2738$931.2213@lakeread01>

Graham Ashton wrote:
> Hi. I'm having trouble flushing sys.stdout. I've written a small example
> to illustrate my problem (see below). In short, I expect it to ping
> "received hello", sleep for 5 seconds and then print "received world".
> Instead I get nothing for 5 seconds and then both statements pop out at
> once.
> 
You aren't actually having trouble flushing sys.stdout at all ...

> As you'll no doubt gather from the example, the problem I'm really trying
> to solve is sending message back from one process to another via a pipe.
> Changing the buffering option in the os.pipe() call doesn't have any
> effect either.
> 
Nope. The holdup is elsewhere.

> Any thoughts? Thanks.
> 
> P.S. I've not found -u and PYTHONUNBUFFERED to help me.
> 
Nope, they won't ...

> P.P.S. I'm running 2.3.3 on Linux, libc 2.2.5-11.5.
> 
> ---cut---
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> 
> import os, sys, time
> 
> if len(sys.argv) > 1:
>     sys.stdout.write("hello\n")
>     sys.stdout.flush()
>     time.sleep(5)
>     sys.stdout.write("world\n")
> else:
>     command = "python %s foo" % os.path.basename(sys.argv[0])
>     for line in os.popen(command, "r", 1):
>         print "received", line,
> 
The iteration over the pipe's contents is waiting until it sees the end 
of the output before it yields anything. Try this:

import os, sys, time

if len(sys.argv) > 1:
     sys.stdout.write("hello\n")
     sys.stdout.flush()
     time.sleep(5)
     sys.stdout.write("world\n")
else:
     command = "python %s foo" % os.path.basename(sys.argv[0])
     f = os.popen(command, "r", 1)
     while 1:
         line = f.readline()
         if not line:
             break
         print "received", line,

You can probably find a tidier way to bundle this now you know what's up.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom  Mon Nov 22 03:07:10 2004
From: unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom (Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non triviale en fuite perpétuelle.)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:07:10 +0100
Subject: pyMinGW support for Python 2.4c1 is available
References: <8ad8ad0a.0411212252.3c6ae425@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41a1a1dc$0$8190$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>


===> BookMark

Thanks !

-- 
Michel Claveau




From news+0409 at henrikholm.com  Sun Nov 28 19:59:31 2004
From: news+0409 at henrikholm.com (Henrik Holm)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 18:59:31 -0600
Subject: Closing files
Message-ID: <1gnz2kq.1jnqpi01tkznh0N%news+0409@henrikholm.com>

I have recently started playing around with Python.  Some of the things
I have done have involved reading files.  The way I do this is along the
lines of

  f = file('file.txt')
  lines = f.readlines()
  f.close()

I have noticed that it is possible to do this in one line:

  lines = file('file.txt').readlines()

My question is: does the file get closed if I do the reading in this
manner?

Similarly, for reading the output from other programs or system
commands, I would do:

  o = popen('executable')
  lines = o.readlines()
  o.close()

Is it OK to do this with a one-liner as well, with

  lines = popen('executable').readlines()

without closing the file object?

Thanks,
Henrik Holm


From agriff at tin.it  Mon Nov  1 09:07:30 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 14:07:30 GMT
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
References: <1gmfz0k.a3xefz1xzms61N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5689.1099092886.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<nl07o0lr3dvunoq2j0avuvmftnc837fvoc@4ax.com>
	<ad052e5c.0410312112.32869dcf@posting.google.com>
	<idnbo0tctv4f3u23a3ejvpg5qqegaf68jk@4ax.com>
	<uqtbo019ur3crjkuqjsnao00gvc0vndiq0@4ax.com>
	<41860aa0$0$78738$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <rsfco05m5bnvhcg3rcdj6vm0h0klfp6grt@4ax.com>

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 11:06:24 +0100, Irmen de Jong
<irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote:

>Andrea Griffini wrote:
>
>> roman = lambda x: "".join(["".join(map(lambda c: "IVXLCDM"[int(c)
>> +2*N],"/0/00/000/01/1/10/100/1000/02".split("/")[x//10**N % 10]))
>> for N in (3, 2, 1, 0)])
>
>This rocks!! I'm still trying to understand how it works though :)

The idea is to use the pattern

  "", "0", "00", "000", "01", "1", "10", "100", "1000", "02"

where every character listed above is an offest in

  "IVX", "XLC", "CDM", "M??"

For example applying the offsets to the first group you get:

  "", "I", "II", "III", "IV", "V", "VI", "VII", "VIII", "IX"

i.e. the roman numbers for 0..9; and applying it to the second

  "", "X", "XX", "XXX", "XL", "L", "LX", "LXX", "LXXX", "XC",

i.e. 0, 10, 20, ... 90.

I just used "split" and string indexing instead of regular
lists because the code becomes smaller (and more readable
than a mess of quotes and commas).

The rest is a loop on the thousands, the hundreds, the tens
and the units of the number and the joins needed to glue
all the pieces into a resulting string.

Andrea



From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sat Nov  6 09:49:37 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 09:49:37 -0500
Subject: Python OS
In-Reply-To: <cmin1n$500$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmin1n$500$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <418CE481.4020903@cloudthunder.com>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

>Richard Blackwood wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Is it possible to prototype an operating system in Python?  If so, what
>>would such a task entail? (i.e. How would one write a boot-loader in
>>Python?)
>>    
>>
>
>
>There have been lengthy discussions on this subject in this group - google
>is your friend. 
>  
>
I know, I read them.  The conclusion was that indeed, it can and in fact 
has been done.

>Generally spaeking, its not possible - as there is a fair amount of
>low-level stuff to be progammed for interrupt routines and the like that
>can not be done in python.
>  
>
More what I meant was whether I can _prototype_ an OS in Python (i.e. 
make a virtual OS).

P.S.  If one can program interrupt routines in C, they can do the same 
in Python.


From ally_burnett at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Nov 29 04:03:18 2004
From: ally_burnett at yahoo.co.uk (alastair)
Date: 29 Nov 2004 01:03:18 -0800
Subject: Newbie MySQLdb / MySQL version problem, I think
References: <q5idnQ4l3bB-gTfcRVn-hQ@rcn.net>
	<I9rqd.36289$B06.35944@news.edisontel.com>
Message-ID: <23ae7099.0411290103.51bd5fb0@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I'm using MySQLdb with mysql 4.1 and I've seen this too - to get
around it go to the following link:

http://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql/en/Old_client.html

Hope this helps,

Alastair.


From mdw at nsict.org  Wed Nov 24 10:54:27 2004
From: mdw at nsict.org (Mark Wooding)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:54:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Idiom for default values when unpacking a tuple
References: <l6qmd.34062$Zr3.23130@fe1.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <slrncq9blj.7lo.mdw@tux.nsict.org>

Paul McGuire <ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com> wrote:

> Is there a clean Python idiom for unpacking a tuple so that any
> unassigned target values get a default, or None

If i is a tuple you want unpacked, then something like

  (lambda a, b, c, d = None: (a, b, c, d))(*i) 

is the expanded version with defaults substituted.

-- [mdw]


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Nov 17 22:39:13 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:39:13 -0800
Subject: Parallel processing
In-Reply-To: <a8623416.0411171729.4e775559@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.6501.1100717187.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<a8623416.0411171729.4e775559@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041117193102.F9B7.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


corey.coughlin at attbi.com (Corey Coughlin) wrote:
> 
> Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.6501.1100717187.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> > 
> > There are various other reasons why Python is not as parallelizable as
> > you would think.  Among them is the semantics of scoping, and whether
> > there is shared or unshared scope among the processors/nodes.  If shared,
> > then any operation that could change scopes would need to be distributed
> > (ick), or if unshared, then you are basically looking at an
> > automatically distributed tuplespace (LINDA).  It gets even uglier with
> > certain kinds of generators.
> > 
> > Regardless of which one is the case, heavy modifications to Python would
> > necessarily need to be done in order to make them happen.
> > 
> > 
> >  - Josiah
> 
> Well, I'm not sure it's necessarily that grim.  Generally, taking an
> inference engine something like that proposed for Starkiller, tracking
> variable types as closely as possible, adding some data flow
> capability to follow the execution path, you could probably do
> something useful.  With Python's for..in loop syntax, the prohibition
> against chaning loop variables there, and list comprehensions,
> parallelized loop unrolling, done intelligently, could help out a lot
> on parallel architectures.  Sure, it'd be hard to do effectively in a
> strictly interpreted environment, but if Starkiller ever comes out, it
> seems almost inevitable.  Then again, that project seems to be getting
> later all the time.  :(


One could also just add a debugger that distributes data via pickles as
information changes, so data types don't really matter.

The real issue is that /anything/ can have an arbitrary side-effect, and
in order for 'for i in j' parallelization to occur consistantly, those
side-effects must be handled properly.  Those side-effects can be
horribly ugly.


While I say "huzzah" for new languages (or preprocessors for older
languages) that make parallelization occur 'automatically', there is
something to be said about manually parallelizing your algorithms with
MPI, Linda, PVM, etc.  At least then you can be explicit with your
communication and not be afraid that your desired changes may or may not
be transferred (a waste of bandwidth, scope overwriting, not getting
updated data, etc).

 - Josiah



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Nov 10 14:17:31 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:17:31 -0600
Subject: Announce: csv_xs.py
In-Reply-To: <BDB81C1E.1C8E%cme@lampcoders.net>
References: <BDB81C1E.1C8E%cme@lampcoders.net>
Message-ID: <16786.26955.632360.365701@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Christian> i had developed my own csv class which is inspired by perls
    Christian> csv_xs module.

Can you explain what you liked about Perl's csv_xz package and/or didn't
like about Python's csv module that motivated you to write your own class?

Thx,

Skip


From dsa at unilestemg.br  Fri Nov  5 15:15:21 2004
From: dsa at unilestemg.br (Douglas Soares de Andrade)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 18:15:21 -0200
Subject: py2exe 0.5.4 released
In-Reply-To: <ekj8urr8.fsf@python.net>
References: <mailman.5337.1098471964.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<554no051vbnq7os9hs0b1kov9p2a9c60g7@4ax.com>
	<ekj8urr8.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <200411051815.21779.dsa@unilestemg.br>

Hi !

For me it worked :)

See ya !

Em Sex 05 Nov 2004 15:31, Thomas Heller escreveu:
> Mark A. Munza <commander at REMOVEME.flying-horses.net> writes:
> > On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 11:22:43 +0100, Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> 
wrote:
> >>There seems a problem with the mirrors.  One (the only one?) that works
> >>is optusnet mirror in australia.
> >>
> >>http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/py2exe/py2exe-0.5.4.win32-py2.3.exe?us
> >>e_mirror=optusnet
> >>
> >>Thomas
> >
> > If you have the py2.3 version could I trouble you to email a copy to me?
>
> Doesn't the above link work for you?
>
> Thomas



From mpapec at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 22 13:35:13 2004
From: mpapec at yahoo.com (Matija Papec)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 19:35:13 +0100
Subject: for(each) element aliasing
References: <2844q0l5ccahj6poumolghrcm2u2boo9ka@4ax.com>
	<mailman.6698.1101141567.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<c9a4q0d6lc8usqtcjbidgn786tmkfhs0gf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <jgb4q0h7pi1h5es80vrp0pqolvkubkfrjr@4ax.com>

>>    arr[:] = [a * 2 for a in arr]
>>    print arr
>
>I guess this works like "map" but "for" is more idimatic.

idiomatic


-- 
Matija


From craig at postnewspapers.com.au  Fri Nov 19 15:18:13 2004
From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 04:18:13 +0800
Subject: Python switch for syntax checking
In-Reply-To: <obrnd.30846$jE2.25588@bignews4.bellsouth.net>
References: <obrnd.30846$jE2.25588@bignews4.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <1100895492.5029.28.camel@rasputin.localnet>

On Sat, 2004-11-20 at 02:46, Jeff Duffy wrote:
> Hi all.
> 
>   I've been wondering why python itself doesn't provide a switch to 
> check a file for valid syntax. I know that you can currently call
> 
> python -c "import py_compile; py_compile.compile(r'MyApp.py')"
> 
> but in order to manage this effectively you have to add a shell alias, 
> write a script, mess about with your editor, or what have you. This 
> becomes yet another small annoyance I'd like to get rid of. I'm also 
> aware of PyChecker and other lint like tools, but these run the code and 
> often I don't want that.

The talk of a new switch to import a module would do the job nicely. If
you just import your script as a module, you know it loads and the main
program runs. Just add the usual

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main(sys.argv)

so your code loads as a module without executing its normal functions,
and you have your syntax check plus a bit of other sanity checking (all
modules import, etc).

In the mean time, it's fairly trivial to:

python -c "import myscript"

and not significantly longer / more complex than some sort of check
flag. 

That said, I'm all in favour of unit tests to make sure your code
actually runs. Especially in Python, where things like late binding of
names means that you can't check at load time whether names exit, unit
tests are IMO the way to go.

pylint / pychecker may also be worth looking into.

--
Craig Ringer



From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Sun Nov 14 14:09:38 2004
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 14 Nov 2004 11:09:38 -0800
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
Message-ID: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>

Hello all,

So Zope still lives, yay.  Well, I like that they use Python.  

<rant>

What amazed me is they write that they "added types to the variables
and hope that it will be added to the Python project too".  Really. 
ROFL.

And instead of working on the engine they should have put more work
into examples.  Simple tutorials.  Downloadable executables for
Windows that you can click and install.  But most of all simple and
good examples: webapplications like
- a wiki in zope
- a forum in zope, with agenda and calendar
- a game like http://216.199.69.100/war/ in zope

They have a nice free webhosting thing for zope, but to expect new
users to do everything from scratch...
The "examples" I found were very disappointing.

</rant>


From agenkin at dimacs.rutgers.edu  Tue Nov 30 21:50:10 2004
From: agenkin at dimacs.rutgers.edu (Alex Genkin)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:50:10 -0500
Subject: ver 23 invokation on Windows
Message-ID: <06d501c4d750$99928b50$874b0680@AG>

Hi Python experts!

With ver 22, I used to be able to invoke Python script by simply typing .py file
name on the command line.
With ver 23 it no longer works. If set up Windows file association, then the
script gets invoked, but command line arguments disappear.
Any idea what to do?

Thank you,
Alex



From caleb1 at telkomsa.net  Mon Nov 29 23:20:25 2004
From: caleb1 at telkomsa.net (Caleb Hattingh)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 23:20:25 -0500
Subject: slicing, mapping types, ellipsis etc.
References: <m34qj8e5yd.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
Message-ID: <opsh9fobad1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>

I'm going to assume the following is self-explanatory - type the commands  
in yourself.

'>>> a = 'hello my name is caleb'
'>>> b = a.split()
'>>> b
['hello', 'my', 'name', 'is', 'caleb']
'>>> b[0]
'hello'
'>>> b[1]
'my'
'>>> b[0:1]
['hello']
'>>> b[0:2]
['hello', 'my']
'>>> b[-1]
'caleb'
'>>> b[:-2]
['hello', 'my', 'name']
'>>> b[2:-2]
['name']
'>>>

thx
Caleb



On 29 Nov 2004 15:49:30 -0500, Jerry Sievers <jerry at jerrysievers.com>  
wrote:

>
>      Slice objects
>                     Slice objects are used to represent slices when  
> extended
>           slice syntax is used. This is a slice using two colons, or  
> multiple
>           slices or ellipses separated by commas, e.g., a[i:j:step],  
> a[i:j,
>           k:l], or a[..., i:j]. They are also created by the built-in  
> slice()
>           function.
>
> A quick example on how this is used and/or pointer to more reading is
> greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
>



From charlie at cknudsen.net  Sat Nov 27 17:08:55 2004
From: charlie at cknudsen.net (charlie knudsen)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:08:55 -0600
Subject: mod_python 2.7.10 - publisher
Message-ID: <41a8fb2d$0$85022$a1866201@visi.com>

I am setting up mod_python 2.7.10 on Apache 1.3.33 as a dso and was
wondering if there is a default function that is called when the publisher
handler is not given a function.  I have read through some documentation
and it looks like mod_python 3.x defaults to the index function, but that
does not appear to work for 2.7.  Also I am using python 2.3.4.

I have the following file as index.py in the test directory of my web root:

from mod_python import apache

def index(req):
    return "hello world"

Currently I get the following behavior:

http://localhost/test/index.py       - 404 error
http://localhost/test/index.py/index - my "hello world" output
http://localhost/test/index.py/      - I get :
----------------------
Mod_python error: "PythonHandler mod_python.publisher"

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/mod_python/apache.py", line 193, in
Dispatch
    result = object(req)

  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/mod_python/publisher.py", line 88,
in handler
    if func_path[-1] == ".":

IndexError: string index out of range
----------------------

I was wondering if there was a default function in mod_python 2.7.10.

If not, is there any reasons why I should not add one?  Other than the fact
that the current implementation is well tested.

Thank you,

Charlie



From exarkun at divmod.com  Wed Nov 24 10:25:50 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:25:50 GMT
Subject: asynchat and threading
In-Reply-To: <Ij1pd.19554$ld2.4796764@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20041124152550.17481.1330482169.divmod.quotient.3561@ohm>

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:57:44 GMT, Rob Snyder <arkham at gmail.com> wrote:
>Greetings -
> 
> I've embarked on a small learning project, trying to get a better grasp of
> the asyncore and asynchat modules. The project involves building a simple
> instant messenger application for use on our LAN - nothing heavy duty, as
> 99% of my reason for doing this is just to learn.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> There *must* be some way to use this asyncore stuff on the client side, but
> I'm not seeing it. I'm about to bail on it for the client, but I thought
> I'd put this out there to see if anyone can help me see a different
> approach to this stuff.

  I'm sure there is some way, but I doubt it's pretty.  asyncore is pretty minimal, and gives no thought to integration with other mainloops.

  Twisted, on the other hand, integrates with several different GUI toolkits.  Without threads, even.

    http://www.twistedmatrix.com/

  This is just one of the things it does better than the standard library.  Embarking on a "learning project" using Twisted rather than asyncore is almost certain to bring more long term benefits, since you'll have learned how to use something you can develop actual software with. ;)

  Of course, since your server is already written, you can keep that code and start off with Twisted by just working on the client.  Sockets make interoperability a cinch. :)

  Jp


From Qianqian.Fang at Dartmouth.Edu  Tue Nov 30 01:33:55 2004
From: Qianqian.Fang at Dartmouth.Edu (Qianqian Fang)
Date: 29 Nov 2004 22:33:55 -0800
Subject: Python GTK import error
References: <b7420408.0411231408.38c2f03a@posting.google.com>	<mailman.6737.1101253908.5135.python-list@python.org>	<b7420408.0411272021.70172ccd@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6847.1101632630.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b7420408.0411292233.63144d5a@posting.google.com>

sorry keep bugging you guys, but this is somehow a wield problem that
I am eager to solve.

I checked the permission and it looks fine to me:


lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 26 Nov 28 04:06 /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0
-> libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.400.13

-rwxr-xr-x  1 root root 2862900 Oct 15 14:23
/usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.400.13


I even run with root, the error message "ImportError:
/usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0: undefined symbol:
atk_object_add_relationship" still comes out.


I always try to avoid installing packages manually, rpm or apt-get is
my preferred way. However, this time, it beats my working principle
because this error message appeared after I upgraded packages using
"synaptic", an apt-get GUI. now, I don't even trust apt-get:(




Andrew James <drew at gremlinhosting.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.6847.1101632630.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Try checking the permissions on the link and the library - if you
> installed the module manually the permissions may not allow anyone but
> the root user to import the module.
> 
> Andrew


From moexu13 at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 21:24:00 2004
From: moexu13 at gmail.com (M. Bitner)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 18:24:00 -0800
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <20041102015945.36506.qmail@web60605.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041101211449.14551.qmail@web25101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<20041102015945.36506.qmail@web60605.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <57c312d304110118241000db3c@mail.gmail.com>

You might also try Dive into Python. It's aimed at more experienced
programmers and is fairly fast-paced.

http://diveintopython.org/


On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:59:45 -0800 (PST), danu kusmana
<danu_milis at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I think the documentation on python official website
> can help u learn lots of things and make sure you also
> read lot in library section it worthed to read for.
> There's also a cookbook in activestate.com website to
> learn tips and tricks. hehehehe
> 
> I dont know is it appropriate or now but u can also
> find few books u can download from eDonkey servers :P
> 
> Last thing is browse in your book shop u will find a
> few books regarding Python.
> 
> danu
> 
> 
> 
> --- cuppojav <cuppojav at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > Hi everyone!
> >
> > I am new to Python; I've been learning the basics of
> > the language from the online tutorial at python.org,
> > plus looked at some of Richard Baldwin's online
> > tutorials.
> >
> > I must firstly say that I have fallen in love with
> > Python. I come from a Java background (I've been
> > programming seriously in Java since the beginning of
> > the year), and the simplicity and ease of use of
> > Python is really appealing.
> >
> > Secondly, I am obviously familiar with the basics of
> > programming, especially OO. I've only really
> > programmed in Java, plus a bit in Python now.
> >
> > My main point: I've been looking for a good place to
> > learn (by detailed, explained example, preferably)
> > how to write Python programs and scripts: How to
> > structure a program, how variables and functions
> > work together, and just a general exposure to the
> > different aspects of the language...
> > Something along the lines of Java's Java Tutorial
> > (http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/) would be
> > favourite... :) Has anyone got any suggestions?
> > Ideas?
> >
> > THe Python tutorial is pretty brief, and glosses
> > over many important aspects, IMHO. Well, it *is* an
> > introduction to Python.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > lutha
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >  ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even
> > more fun!  > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
> www.yahoo.com
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From wh2005 at web.de  Mon Nov 22 03:04:08 2004
From: wh2005 at web.de (wolfgang haefelinger)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:04:08 GMT
Subject: unicode question
References: <qkLnd.22919$jf.19362@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<419fc9b9$0$198$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<419ff7cd_3@newspeer2.tds.net> <41A061E1.8050203@v.loewis.de>
	<KH_nd.23139$jf.19287@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<41a0ab62$0$151$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <Y3hod.23808$jf.11140@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>

Hi Martin,

if print is implemented like this then I begin to understand the problem.

Neverthelss, I regard

 print y.__str__()            ## works
 print y                           ## fails??

as a very inconsistent behaviour.

Somehow I have the feeling that Python should give up the distinction
between unicode  and  str  and just have a str type which is internally
unicode.


Anyway, thanks for answering
Wolfgang.

""Martin v. L?wis"" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message 
news:41a0ab62$0$151$9b622d9e at news.freenet.de...
> wolfgang haefelinger wrote:
>> I was actually thinking that
>>
>>  print x
>>
>> is just kind of shortcur for writing (simplifying bit):
>>
>>  import sys
>>  if not (isinstance(x,str) or isinstance(x,unicode)) and x.__str__ :
>>     x = x.__str__()
>>  sys.stdout.write(x)
>
> This is too simplifying. For the context of this discussion,
> it is rather
>
> import sys
> if isinstance(x, unicode) and sys.stdout.encoding:
>     x = x.encode(sys.stdout.encoding)
> x = str(x)
> sys.stdout.write(x)
>
> (this, of course, is still quite simplicated. It ignores tp_print,
> and it ignores softspaces).
>
>> Or in words: if x is not a string type but has method __str__ then
>>
>>  print x
>>
>> behaves like
>>
>>  print x.__str__()
>
> No. There are many types for which this is not true; in this specific
> case, it isn't true for Unicode objects.
>
>> Is this a bug??
>
> No. You are just misunderstanding it.
>
> Regards,
> Martin 




From andreas.lobinger at netsurf.de  Thu Nov 18 05:13:00 2004
From: andreas.lobinger at netsurf.de (Andreas Lobinger)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 11:13:00 +0100
Subject: Newbie:  Python & ADFGVX Cipher Cracking?
In-Reply-To: <301m1mF2ptcjrU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <4mJmd.1242$Tq6.565@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cnfoj7$fpq$1@news.mch.sbs.de> <301m1mF2ptcjrU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cnhsjd$t3a$1@news.mch.sbs.de>

Aloha,

Christian Meissner wrote:
> Here my 'top', while running it with the whole alphabet:
> Processes:  58 total, 3 running, 55 sleeping... 149 threads 20:07:04
> Load Avg:  1.39, 1.87, 1.78     CPU usage:  87.7% user, 12.3% sys, 0.0% 
> idle
> SharedLibs: num =  113, resident = 9.20M code,  704K data, 2.38M LinkEdit
> MemRegions: num =  8629, resident =  632M + 2.68M private, 34.0M shared
> PhysMem:  79.2M wired,  451M active,  226M inactive,  757M used, 10.9M free
> VM: 4.60G + 74.9M   32522(0) pageins, 26052(424) pageouts
> 
>   PID COMMAND      %CPU   TIME   #TH #PRTS #MREGS RPRVT  RSHRD  RSIZE VSIZE
>   634 python      92.1%  4:51.96   1    11  2308   569M+  372K   326M- 
>  614M-
>   561 bash         0.0%  0:00.13   1    13    21   108K   912K   

And here mine...

load averages:  1.01,  0.92,  0.57                           11:09:12
88 processes:  86 sleeping, 2 on cpu
CPU states: 87.1%idle, 12.5%user,  0.3%kernel,  0.0%iowait,  0.0%swap
Memory: 16G real, 14G free, 1395M swap in use, 31G swap free

    PID USERNAME THR PRI NICE  SIZE   RES STATE    TIME    CPU COMMAND
  13062 lobinger   4  40    0 1196M 1191M cpu/7   12:19 12.49% python
  13086 lobinger   1  58    0 7040K 4824K sleep    0:00  0.02% dtterm
     69 root      15  41    0 8768K 7984K sleep   46:41  0.01% picld

I didn't claim it as a memory efficient solution...

Wishing a happy day
		LOBI


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  4 09:14:55 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 15:14:55 +0100
Subject: SystemError: com_backpatch: offset too large
References: <781f5e76.0411032335.57bf5ae4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gmqfmp.amq50rbaii20N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

alban.minassian at wanadoo.fr <alban.minassian at wanadoo.fr> wrote:

> (Sorry for my bad english )
> 
> I convert a php code to python. i have 10000 lines where i add and add
> and add string.... like var += "xxxxxx"

If 'var' is a string, make it into a list instead, change each
instruction such as the above += into a var.append('xxxxxx'), and when
you're finally done do var=''.join(var) -- by far the best way.


Alex


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Fri Nov 19 22:05:13 2004
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:05:13 -0600
Subject: get function arguments
In-Reply-To: <loom.20041116T210156-197@post.gmane.org>
References: <cndm3b$lin$1@newshispeed.ch>
	<loom.20041116T210156-197@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <200411192105.13996.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Tuesday 16 November 2004 02:03 pm, Steven Bethard wrote:
> Benny Mohr <news5 <at> bennymo.ch> writes:
> > How can I get the list of argumens of this function?
> 
> Is this what you mean?
> 
> >>> def myFunc(a,b,c='default'):
> ... 	pass
> ... 
> >>> myFunc.func_code.co_varnames
> ('a', 'b', 'c')
> 
> I don't know where (if?) the func_code attributes are documented

They're not easy to find, I'll grant you. But this table is pretty
interesting:

http://python.org/doc/2.3.4/lib/inspect-types.html

OTOH, this probably *shouldn't* be too easy to find, as it's not
something you should use until you really *really* need it.

Cheers,
Terry

ziur(--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Fri Nov 19 05:44:56 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 10:44:56 GMT
Subject: Class Encapsulation Errors in Python 2.3.3
References: <47f7cc78.0411182007.1b77c2b1@posting.google.com>
	<10pqtqbjncp2nfb@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Xns95A66CF5C9E26duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Jeff Shannon wrote:

> The problem here is that default values in functions/methods are 
> evaluated at *compile* time.

Actually, no. The default values in functions/methods are evaluated when 
the def statement is *executed* not when anything is compiled. If you 
execute the def multiple times the default values are recalculated each 
time. 


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Nov  8 05:37:20 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 08 Nov 2004 11:37:20 +0100
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<tyfekj44shs.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxizh.3rip5na92f0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <tyfacts4of3.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
> 
> > Gabriel Zachmann <zach at cs.uni-bonn.de> writes:
> > 
> > > Is there any generic way to use C++ libraries from within Python.
> > 
> > > Without doing anything else (such as recompiling the library or
> > > generating wrappers).
> > 
> > Bit of a tall order, don't you think?
> 
> Well, ctypes does that for C libraries (as long as they're
> DLL/so/dynlib/...), it's not immediately obvious that using C++
> libraries is an order of magnitude harder (though probably true).

Maybe not _immediately_ obvious, but obvious after a few minutes
thought :-)

> > What would be so cumbersome about invoking a single program which
> > requires the location of the library, the location of its headers, and
> > which gives you a Python module wrapping the library in return ?
> 
> Without a C/C++ compiler around, you mean?  Most Python users these days
> don't have one (as they use Python on Windows)...

Good point. I hadn't though of this one. In my environment the users
are expected to have at least one C++ compiler, and are even expected
to use it on a regular basis.


From square690410 at yahoo.com.tw  Thu Nov  4 05:20:53 2004
From: square690410 at yahoo.com.tw (Leon)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:20:53 +0800
Subject: question for sys.stdout
References: <cmcpg0$a5k$1@netnews.hinet.net>
	<4189ec52$0$6282$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <cmcvqb$njd$1@netnews.hinet.net>

sorry....
how to replace sys.stdout to file-like object ?
I use os module fdopen() and file object fileno()
stdout = os.fdopen(sys.stdout.fileno(),"w")
or
stdout = os.fdopen(os.dup(sys.stdout.fileno()),"w")

it still can't do rewrite, it result is append content

.>_<.    Please help me

"Pierre Barbier de Reuille" <pierre.barbier at cirad.fr> 
???????:4189ec52$0$6282$626a14ce at news.free.fr...
> If you want to "rewrite" a "stdout" object, just write a file-like object 
> and replace sys.stdout !
>
> Then don't care about the old stdout anymore ... it's a pipe and it won't 
> bother you anymore :)
>
> Another way to do so is the "C" way ... ie. using os.dup2. The advantage 
> of the "dup2" method is the replacement of the stdout of the whole program 
> (so, if you use external functions writing in stdout it will work), but 
> the drawback is you need to have a real file (ie. file, pipe, ...)
>
> Depends on what you want to use :)
>
> Leon a ?crit :
>> "stdout" is file object, it open mode is "w"
>> and it have a close() fuction.....
>> while it run close(), how to reopen it
>>
>> because I want to do rewrite it
>> stdout content update
>> 



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Nov 12 11:57:45 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:57:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: modifying static (local) method variables
References: <5ef48b8004111208372b048838@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041112T174928-138@post.gmane.org>

t scytale <scytale <at> gmail.com> writes:
> 
> i am using a mutable default paramater to simulate a static method variable.
> i notice that 
> - assigning to the var inside the method causes it to return to the
> default value at each call.
> - appending to the var gives the expected behaviour (the value is
> preserved to the next call

This is true of any parameter value:

>>> def f(x):
... 	x = []
... 	x.append(1)
... 	return x
... 
>>> lst = []
>>> lst2 = f(lst)
>>> lst is lst2
False
>>> lst, lst2
([], [1])
>>> def f(x):
... 	x.append(1)
... 	return x
... 
>>> lst = []
>>> lst2 = f(lst)
>>> lst is lst2
True
>>> lst, lst2
([1], [1])

Note that in Python, the parameters to your method are just names that will be
bound to particular objects.  When you "assign" to a parameter within a
function, what you're really doing is rebinding the name.  This means that the
name is now bound to whatever new object you give it.  In my example above, you
can see that the first f function rebinds x to a new empty list.  When I modify
the new empty list, I am modifying the object currently bound to the name 'x'
(the new empty list), not the object passed in to the function.  Note that when
I do not rebind x, I can modify the object that was passed in as I like.

Using default parameter values does not change this.  All default parameter
values do for you is to bind a given parameter name to a given default value if
no value for that parameter is passed to the function.  If you rebind the name
within the function, you will again lose access to the previous value bound to
that name.

HTH,

Steve



From ville at spammers.com  Tue Nov 16 11:03:05 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 18:03:05 +0200
Subject: "Frozen" modules w/ static semantics[was Re: Zope 3.0,
	and why I won't use it]
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<20041114200132.20649.1982992758.divmod.quotient.5222@ohm>
	<mailman.6390.1100553070.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbf8z.mirt8m687hvbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<du7mzxiruej.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<1gncejc.1pmb5x2rs2cojN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <du7y8h1eq86.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Alex" == Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

    >> situations in type inference? Type declarations would of course be
    >> optional, and they could be a big win esp. for non-cpython

    Alex> My prediction is that, once 'of course optional' type
    Alex> declaration gets in, it will become the mandated approach in
    Alex> most new-to-Python shops, by

I don't think this has happened with Lisp either, so it doesn't
necessarily happen with Python. Python has a strong culture of dynamic
typing, it wouldn't disappear overnight. It's a matter of education,
mostly.

    Alex> And of course the 'foo' type will generally be built up in
    Alex> another module, so we're talking about a compiler that
    Alex> examines other modules in order to be able to compile this
    Alex> one.  Whole-program compilation with compile-time inferred
    Alex> name-object bindings would be such a huge and total
    Alex> revolution wrt today's Python that very little would stay
    Alex> the same.  OK, then, if that's the revolution that's in
    Alex> Python's future, let's see it come _first_ -- there would be
    Alex> huge wins without requiring any source code changes _IF_
    Alex> name-to-object resolution could be uniformly done at
    Alex> compile-time rather than at runtime, even across modules.

Ok, let's :-).

I figure the concept of "frozen" modules would need to be introduced:

python -f a.py b.py c.py

=> a.pyf b.pyf c.pyf

It would now be impossible to introduce new names in the module global
area. All the classes introduced in the module would be immutable,
i.e. no rebinding of methods. Attributes would work through
__slots__. Imports would need to only address other frozen modules
(which would apply to most of the standard library at some point :-).

Granted, it's not the laissez-faire Python we all know and love, but
many problems could be solved by using that kind of programming style
alone. Several more "sophisticated" frameworks could be able to use a
lean, "frozen" subset of classes and functions.

    Alex> I don't see "falling back" to a lower-level language where
    Alex> you need one as a disaster.  Doesn't have to be _AS_
    Alex> low-level as C# or Java or C, of course; I think pyrex does
    Alex> a great job of showing how a restricted Python
    Alex> dialect/variant which, among other things, includes optional
    Alex> declarations, can make your life much easier.  I don't see

I admit that the concept of frozen modules is somewhere b/w an
additional lower level language and an extension to Python as an
idea. 

    Alex> couldn't be pyrex# or Jirex versions, or even languages
    Alex> inspired from Python but farther from it than Pyrex is, such
    Alex> as Bobo.

I assume you mean Boo here.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From darthace at gmail.com  Mon Nov 22 14:18:05 2004
From: darthace at gmail.com (Gino)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 11:18:05 -0800
Subject: Database updates to be reflected on my grid
Message-ID: <169dec8b.0411221118.4c920770@posting.google.com>

HI,

I am fairly new to python.  I have created a simple wxpython
application that has a grid on a form.  The grid is populated
dynamically by making a call to the database.  I have an event that
when a row is double-clicked on, another form is launched and the user
can eidt the values in the database and writed the changes to the
database.  This works fine, the problem is that once the changes are
made, these changes are not reflected in the grid.  I have tried a
grid.ForceRefresh() as well as grid.GetGridWindow().Refresh(True). 
Neither of whihc actually refreshed my grid values.  I need help on
resolving this.  I am using Python2.3 as well as wxPython2.3 and Boa
Constructor.  Can anyone help me please?


From dmerrillq at usaq.netq  Tue Nov 30 08:53:25 2004
From: dmerrillq at usaq.netq (Dave Merrill)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 08:53:25 -0500
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.4 (final)
References: <mailman.6913.1101817983.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8sGdnQjN6qGu7THcRVn-3A@rcn.net>
	<cohse7$kvs$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <I8Odne4ZHf_I5jHcRVn-tA@rcn.net>

Should have been more specific.

As I recall, after I installed 2.4rc1 I installed the latest versions of
wxWindows and SPE IDE into it. The 2.4 copy of SPE died silently when
started, which I can accept as a incompatible versions.

What was strange to me was that at that point, the 2.3.3 copy of SPE did the
same thing. After I uninstalled 2.4, SPE ran again under 2.3.3, and that's
what I'm using now.

What caused this kind of interaction between installs? SPE and wxWindows
both live in site-packages, which I would have thought would make them
Python-version specific.

Dave Merrill

"Stefan Behnel" wrote:
>
> Dave Merrill schrieb:
> > Newb question: Is it possible/recommended  to have multiple versions of
> > Python installed simultaneously? Earlier, I installed 2.4rc1, and a
number
> > of things in my 2.3.3 install stopped working. Are there known
techniques
> > for managing multiple versions?
>
> Short answer: depends on your OS.
>
> I assume "stopped working" means: libraries were missing. This means that
> "managing multiple versions" already works for you. The libraries are
> installed for Python 2.3 and only 2.3 uses them. That's the expected
> behaviour. Install them for 2.4 as well and everything should work fine.
>
> Stefan




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Tue Nov  9 03:45:34 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 09 Nov 2004 09:45:34 +0100
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<tyfekj44shs.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxizh.3rip5na92f0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyfacts4of3.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxn7d.19o8q51jt2gu5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<wtww9u4p.fsf@python.net> <cmo88k$1ot$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <tyfoei72yxd.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> writes:

> > But I have no idea how inline definitions of member functions (I'm not
> > sure that's the correct term - I mean code defined in the header files)
> > should be converted to Python code.

Member functions which are _defined_ (as opposed to merely declared)
within the class, are implicitly marked "inline". And the "inline"
keyword is a hint to the compiler that you suggest that the function
be inlined; it's a hind which the compiler is allowed to ignore.

> While inlining is an optimization technique that allows for copying method
> code directly into the callee's code, they will still be exposed
> explicitely as function as otherwise even linking between C++ libs won't
> work.

I don't think so. Given that the _definition_ of the function is in
the header, and the header is needed to compile any code which might
want to link with the library, the compiler has all it needs, without
a need for a corresponding function to exist in the library.


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov  2 12:14:06 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:14:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <loom.20041102T172728-484@post.gmane.org>

Diez B. Roggisch <deets.nospaaam <at> web.de> writes:

> Strong/weak typing is about how much you care of types at all - in php, its
> perfectly legal to add strings to numbers - the string simply gets
> converted to a number beforehand, that conversion yielding 0 when there is
> nothing useful and numberlike can be extracted from the string. So typing
> is weak, as it doesn't constrain the possible operations on variables with
> certain values.

By this definition, Python is also weakly typed:

>>> 2.0 + 1
3.0

Your defintion above calls PHP weakly typed because it performs implicit
string->number conversions.  The Python code above performs an implicit
int->float conversion.

This is not the definition of strongly- and weakly-typed that I'm used to.  When
I use strongly-typed, I mean that a block of memory associated with an object
cannot be reinterpreted as a different type of object.  For example, in a
weakly-typed language like C, we can do:

struct A {
	char c;
	int i;
};
struct B {
	float f;
	char c;
};
int main(int argc, char* argv) {
	struct A a = {'c', 1024};
	struct B* b = (struct B*)&a;
	printf("'%c' %d %f '%c'\n", a.c, a.i, b->f, b->c);
}

And get the following ouptut:
'c' 1024 149611321247666274304.000000 ' '

C allows me to reinterpret a char as a float and an int as a char.  In the first
case, we get the floating-point number that is represented by the bits that
represent the character 'c'.  In the second case, we get the space character
because that's how C prints a character with an ASCII value larger than it's
allowed to be (1024 when the max is 255).

The point here is that I consider C weakly typed because, with no error of any
sort, it allows me to reinterpret a block of memory in as many ways as I like. 
A strongly typed language like Python does not allow this.  Even in my Python
example above, we're not *reinterpreting* the block of memory representing 1 as
a floating point value; we're *coerceing* the integer 1 into the floating point
value 1.0 (which probably means allocating a new float variable at the C level)
before performing the addition.

Steve



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 16:35:36 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 21:35:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: sublcassing dict without losing functionality
References: <mailman.5781.1099341134.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4aki52-fg7.ln1@valpo.de>
Message-ID: <loom.20041101T222048-16@post.gmane.org>

Mathias Waack <M.Waack <at> gmx.de> writes:
> 
> How about starting with UserDict (source comes with your python
> distribution) and modifying it for your needs?

I'm trying to avoid a huge code bloat for something that should be relatively
simple.  Modifying and using UserDict would give me some 60+ lines of code to do
something I would hope could be done in much less.  A somewhat better option
might be to copy/paste and slightly modify the __init__ and update code from
UserDict which do more or less what I want...  But of course, this has the
problem of any copy/paste solution -- it will inevitably turn into a pain to
sync.  What happens if dict acquires a new keyword argument?  I have to update
my class again...

The code is not hard to write, but it *is* already written for the dict object.
 If there's any way to take advantage of that fact, I'd like to.

Steve



From qhfgva at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 11:21:33 2004
From: qhfgva at gmail.com (Dustin Lee)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:21:33 -0700
Subject: py-complete help
Message-ID: <b75caff4041118082157ea682a@mail.gmail.com>

Seems like py-complete.el offers some cool features, if I could only
get it to work.

>From the file

;;   1. hippie-expand support via try-complete-py-complete-symbol,
;;   just like the lisp-version, nice for the [S-tab] hungry.
What do I need to do to get this to work?  I have hippie-expand mapped
to F7 (not S-tab) but I'm not sure how I can get hippie to "know"
about the above complete function

;;
;;   2. minibuffer-complete, pressing [M-return] brings up a
;;   minibuffer completion of the expression before point, usefull if
;;   you want to get an overview of your options.
Nothing happens when I press M-return

;;
;;  3. pressing [f1] brings up help on a python symbol before point
;;  (just what help(thingy) gives
if i try this after anything (e.g. "time")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'time' is not defined

;;
;;  4. pressing "(" tries to parse the preceeding tokens as a funtion
;;  or method, and retrieve the signature via the inspect module, and
;;  messages it to you
after time.time

py-complete: waiting for python prompt
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'time' is not defined

;;
;;   5. pressing "," shows last signature.
;;
;;      (4+5) is great for calling functions like:
;;
;;         string.join
;;
;;      where I can never remember whether it's the list or seperator first
pretty much same as above

;;
;;   6. tries to work for both py-execute-buffer and
;;   py-execute-import-or-reload oriented work-styles. Feel free to
;;   suggest improvements, or to just improve the code yourself.

Hmm.... Ok, I'm lame.  What does this mean?


Thanks,

dustin

ps.  I've been googling around but haven't found a great one stop
shopping resource for "power" programming techniques for python in
emacs.  Any suggestions?

-- 
Dustin Lee
qhfgva=rot13(dustin)


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 02:34:58 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 29 Nov 2004 23:34:58 -0800
Subject: asynchat and threading
References: <Ij1pd.19554$ld2.4796764@twister.nyc.rr.com>	<mailman.6755.1101310280.5135.python-list@python.org>	<4edc17eb.0411241036.72eed3ef@posting.google.com>	<41a505c2$0$20660$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>	<e69d3ed2041124173965892985@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.6889.1101762321.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0411292334.18f6b52d@posting.google.com>

"Eric S. Johansson" <esj at harvee.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.6889.1101762321.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> this points to an important issue that should be addressed at some point 
> which is the ability to quickly and easily, on the level of rpm or 
> apt-get, import external frameworks. 

Depending on your distribution, this may be already available. For instance
in Mandrake 10.1 I just tried 

# urpmi python-twisted

and it downloaded twisted 1.3. Seems to work too.


           Michele Simionato


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Wed Nov 17 15:10:25 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:10:25 -0500
Subject: Plone Products
Message-ID: <419BB031.1030707@cloudthunder.com>

How does one install plone products?  Could someone direct me to a 
tutorial or else?


From pierre.barbier at cirad.fr  Wed Nov  3 02:37:55 2004
From: pierre.barbier at cirad.fr (Pierre Barbier de Reuille)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 08:37:55 +0100
Subject: dicts & lists together
In-Reply-To: <cm8l37$4fi$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <cm8kki$4fi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<TO6dneIm_NJRSxrcRVn-hQ@comcast.com>
	<cm8l37$4fi$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <41888a5c$0$4416$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Brad Tilley a ?crit :
> Larry Bates wrote:
> 
>> Brad Tilley wrote:
>>
>>> I have a dict that associates strings to numbers like this {'abc': 1, 
>>> 'xyz':2, '123':3,...} I am then given a list of strings ['abc', 
>>> 'xyz', '123',...] and asked to associate a number to each string in 
>>> the list according to the string's value in the dict. I am at a loss 
>>> as to how to do this, can someone show me where to start?
>>
>>
>>
>>  >>> xdict={'abc': 1, 'xyz':2, '123':3}
>>  >>> xlist=['abc', 'xyz', '123']
>>  >>> tlist=[xdict.get(v, None) for v in xlist]
>>  >>> print tlist
>> [1, 2, 3]
>>
>> Larry Bates
>> Syscon, Inc.
> 
> 
> Thank you Larry, I don't understand it, but it works ;)

If you don't understand what Larry's solution does, you probably should 
have a look there :

http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.4/tut/node7.html#SECTION007140000000000000000

or look in the web for "list comprehensions" in Python.

Pierre


From godoy at ieee.org  Sun Nov 28 12:41:10 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 15:41:10 -0200
Subject: Psycopg2 mirror availability
References: <mailman.6848.1101650795.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cElqd.26005$zx1.17571@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <m3k6s5kh1l.fsf@g2ctech.com>

John Fabiani <jfabiani at yolo.com> writes:

> I don't think there is a mirror.  I also can confirm that the site appears
> to be down.

Oh, I thought it was a problem with my own connection. 

-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at ieee.org>


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov  1 09:50:01 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 15:50:01 +0100
Subject: Arugument list too long on Linux System
References: <cm5i62$i30$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <2un1ddF2cgjhtU1@uni-berlin.de>

> 
> But, I don't understand why I got this error in the first place. I use a
> rather robust Debian GNU\Linux system (3.2GHz proc, 2GB DDR400 RAM, 15K
> SCSI drives) what causes this type of error? This is not really a Python
> issue, but I thought some knowledgeable users on the list might be
> willing to explain it.

Its a system limit - googling reveals that is usually set to 128kb on linux
systems.

Using the -T option of tar might help you here - just create a temporary
file, stare your filenames in there and pass it to tar.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From fgranger at fgranger.com  Sun Nov 14 15:50:14 2004
From: fgranger at fgranger.com (Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Granger)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:50:14 +0100
Subject: Is a list an instance of a class?
In-Reply-To: <4197c013$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <BDBD8396.2BA70%fgranger@fgranger.com>

Le 14/11/04 21:33, ??Kent Johnson?? <kent3737 at yahoo.com> a ?crit?:

> Is this still correct or was it made obsolete by Python 2.2? Lists and
> files have __class__ attributes, at least:

As you disovered, this is obsolete. You even have some emulation you can
built on :

Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11)
[GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import UserList
>>> dir (UserList)
['UserList', '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__']

For me, this file resides in:

/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/UserL
ist.py 

You will find others as well.

-- 
Fran?ois Granger
 fgranger at fgranger.com
+ 33 6 61 36 96 17 (mobile)
+ 33 1 47 35 00 16 (home)




From ods at strana.ru  Mon Nov 22 13:20:11 2004
From: ods at strana.ru (Denis S. Otkidach)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:20:11 +0300
Subject: split large file by string/regex
In-Reply-To: <41A1EF3E.1080409@holdenweb.com>
References: <v5l872-sd4.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>
	<41A1EF3E.1080409@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <20041122212011.0d6bf9e0.ods@strana.ru>

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:53:02 -0500
Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

> > I am trying to split a file by a fixed string.
> > The file is too large to just read it into a string and split this.
> > I could probably use a lexer but there maybe anything more simple?
> > thanks
> > m.
> 
> Depends on your definition of "simple", I suppose. The problem with 
> *not* using a lexer is that you'd have to examine the file in a sequence 
> of overlapping chunks to make sure that a regex could pick up all 

re module works fine with mmap-ed file, so no need to read it into memory.

> matches. For me that would be more complex than using a lexer, given the 
> excellent range of modules such as SPARK and PLY, to mention but two.

-- 
Denis S. Otkidach
http://www.python.ru/      [ru]


From zunbeltz at wm.lc.ehu.es.XXX  Wed Nov  3 03:41:39 2004
From: zunbeltz at wm.lc.ehu.es.XXX (Zunbeltz Izaola)
Date: 03 Nov 2004 09:41:39 +0100
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
References: <cthoeigtdun.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
	<mailman.5825.1099416401.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cthk6t3tjcs.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> writes:

> from StringIO import StringIO
> import traceback
> import Queue
> 
> traceback_queue = Queue.Queue()
> 
> ...
>     def run(self):
>         try:
>             ...
>         except:
>             tb = StringIO()
>             traceback.print_exc(tb)
>             traceback_queue.put(tb.getvalue())
> ...
> 
> 
>  - Josiah
> 

Ok, thanks for the help. But  I still have a problem. When the lines
in the try block raise an exception it is saved in the traceback_quee
and the thread is finished. Is that correct?. The problem is how do I
inspect the queue? The function that creates the thread is something
like that

    def OnMeasurement(self):
        self.CurrentMeasurement.start()

If I put some code after the .start() method the queue will be
empty. Do I need to insert a infinite loop to see when the exception
is raised?

TIA

Zunbeltz Izaola

-- 
Zunbeltz Izaola Azkona                    |  wmbizazz at lg dot ehu
dotes
Materia Kondentsatuaren Fisika Saila      |
Zientzia eta Teknologia Fakultatea        |  Phone: 34946015326
Euskal Herriko Unibertsitatea             |   
PK 644                                    |  Fax:   34 944648500
48080 Bilbo (SPAIN)                       |


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov 30 17:38:08 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 22:38:08 GMT
Subject: Syntax for extracting multiple items from a dictionary
References: <TuednaLvv_626THcRVn-hA@rcn.net>
	<cohvj3$m4g$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<41aceaf6.1444573476@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <41acf565.1447244667@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:54:46 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
[...]
>
>If there's an overall why for doing it at all, why not just iterate through
>keys of interest? I.e., (untested)
>
> dict( (key, row[key]) for key in cols )
>
Sorry Anton, I didn't see your post. Newsfeed delays seem
to make this kind of duplication fairly likely ;-/

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From timothy.williams at nvl.army.mil  Mon Nov 29 07:58:16 2004
From: timothy.williams at nvl.army.mil (Tim Williams)
Date: 29 Nov 2004 04:58:16 -0800
Subject: Newbie MySQLdb / MySQL version problem, I think
References: <q5idnQ4l3bB-gTfcRVn-hQ@rcn.net>
Message-ID: <faf44c99.0411290458.5a01870b@posting.google.com>

"Dave Merrill" <dmerrillq at usaq.netq> wrote in message news:<q5idnQ4l3bB-gTfcRVn-hQ at rcn.net>...
> Sorry for the newbness... Win2K, Python 2.3.3, MySQL 4.1.7. Downloaded and
> extracted MySQL-python-1.0.0.win32-py2.3.zip. Put the whole extracted
> directory into C:\Program Files\Python23\Lib\site-packages\ and renamed it
> to "MySQLdb.
> 
> MySQLdb.__version__ returns '1.0.0', so I think it's installed ok.
> 
> However, I still can't connect, and I just want to confirm my guess on what
> the problem is, which is that MySQLdb doesn't yet support MySQL 4.1. I'd
> hoped that all that meant was that it wouldn't support any of 4.1's new
> features, but it appears this combination may be completely non-functional.
> Test and results below.
> 
> Has anyone else tried this?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dave Merrill
> 
> 
> TEST CODE (from http://www.kitebird.com/articles/pydbapi.html):
> --------------
> import MySQLdb
> conn = MySQLdb.connect (host = "localhost",
>                        user = "test_user",
>                        passwd = "secret",
>                        db = "test_db")
> cursor = conn.cursor ()
> cursor.execute ("SELECT VERSION()")
> row = cursor.fetchone ()
> print "server version:", row[0]
> cursor.close ()
> conn.close ()
> --------------
> 
> RESULT:
> --------------
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\sm\scriptutils.py", line 49,
> in run
>     exec codeObject in mainDict
>   File "<source>", line 9, in ?
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\__init__.py", line
> 64, in Connect
>     return apply(Connection, args, kwargs)
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\connections.py", line
> 116, in __init__
>     self._make_connection(args, kwargs2)
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\connections.py", line
> 41, in _make_connection
>     apply(super(ConnectionBase, self).__init__, args, kwargs)
> OperationalError: (1251, 'Client does not support authentication protocol
> requested by server; consider upgrading MySQL client')
> --------------


I had a similar problem and found this thread:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=mailman.5325.1098460353.5135.python-list%40python.org

I changed the user's password using OLD_PASSWORD() and now it works
for me.

HTH.


From speno at net.isc.upenn.edu  Thu Nov 18 13:46:11 2004
From: speno at net.isc.upenn.edu (John P. Speno)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 18:46:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: thread.error: release unlocked lock
Message-ID: <cniqlj$2cqj$1@netnews.upenn.edu>

So you have this problem, and you decide to use threads to solve it...

System is Python 2.3.3 on Solaris 9.

I'm using the classic Python thread model. Main thread puts stuff into
a Queue.Queue() and worker threads get stuff out of it and do their thing.

On occaision, I get an exception in the main thread when it tries to
put something into the Queue.

   File "/usr/local/bin/poller.py", line 47, in fragnap_it
     work_queue.put((foo, bar, baz))
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/Queue.py", line 106, in put
     self.fsema.release()
   thread.error: release unlocked lock

Seems like a bad thing, and I'm not sure what can be done. Should I catch
the thread.error and retry the put()? Or just give up and shutdown nicely?
(Or quickly finish the twisted version of this code?)

Any idea on the underlying cause of this exception?

...and now you have (at least) two problems.

Thanks.


From ajsiegel at optonline.com  Thu Nov 25 10:11:04 2004
From: ajsiegel at optonline.com (Arthur)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 10:11:04 -0500
Subject: I Need a Python Mentor
References: <co4lkl$8i9$1@news.swman.net.uk>
Message-ID: <g5tbq0td0cqsme2ri8s7d251vdlmvldj2a@4ax.com>

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 13:07:30 -0000, "abhay" <a.a.kanare at swan.ac.uk>
wrote:

>Hi,
>I have just ended learning to program in Python using the book "Programming
>in Python" by Mark Lutz.
>But to my dismay there are no excercises or programming projects in the
>book. I'm seeking for a good programming project to be implemented in
>python. Do you have any projects to share, I'm ready to spend my free time
>over it to learn the best.

Take a look at PyGeo:

http://home.netcom.com/~ajs/

and see if it the type of thing that might interest you.

It is pretty basic code I think - mostly because that's the only kind
of code I would know how to write. Not exemplary code, to be sure.  

I am working toward a new release and would love other folks
involvement. And I think it is the kind of project to which someone
without deep programming background could contribute.

Art



From autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Nov 28 07:10:30 2004
From: autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Robson)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 12:10:30 +0000
Subject: wxStyledTextCtrl problem ?
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.28.12.10.30.74527@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>

I have a wierd thing with a little editor app I'm writing.

I'm using wxStyledTextCtrl ; the wrapper for Scintilla. When I create the
frame in wxPython, I use self.Editor.SetFocus() to put the focus initially
on the editor.

This works fine.

Odd thing is though, switching back and forwards between applications
alternately hides and reappears the caret.

Hit Alt-Tab twice and it disappears
Hit Alt-Tab twice and it comes back.

It still works fine - there's just no caret. I've tried various things in
EVT_ACTIVATE including Moving the Caret on screen, and forcing it to be
visible - they are being called but it makes no difference.

Any ideas ?



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Nov 19 21:59:23 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:59:23 -0500
Subject: CGI and logging module
In-Reply-To: <419dd4a5$0$218$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
References: <419d0a70$0$221$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
	<419dd4a5$0$218$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
Message-ID: <cnmc16$pn1$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Peter Mott wrote:
> This was a Columbus Egg. The version of Python Apache used had reverted to 
> 2.2.2 after a recent system failure. The version used for console logins was 
> 2.3.4. I'll contact my ISP :-).  Thanks for all the help.

Cool, glad to help. :-)

I was just going to point out that importing builtin modules such
as 'sys' should "always" work, so you could print the values of
sys.modules, sys.prefix, sys.executable, and so forth, to get
a fix on what was what.  Looks like you didn't need that though.

-Peter


From theller at python.net  Wed Nov 10 15:34:22 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:34:22 +0100
Subject: [ctypes-users] ANN: EasyDialogs for Windows version 1.16.0
In-Reply-To: <A7B5C22F20EE3C4E95744E2F03F1887F21CD45@MAYOR.retzlaff.com> (Jimmy
	Retzlaff's message of "Fri, 5 Nov 2004 05:40:31 -0800")
References: <A7B5C22F20EE3C4E95744E2F03F1887F21CD45@MAYOR.retzlaff.com>
Message-ID: <fz3h8mup.fsf@python.net>

"Jimmy Retzlaff" <jimmy at retzlaff.com> writes:

> EasyDialogs for Windows is available at:
>
> http://www.averdevelopment.com/python/
>
> EasyDialogs for Windows is a ctypes based emulation of the EasyDialogs
> module included in the Python distribution for Macintosh. It attempts to
> be as compatible as possible. Code using the Macintosh EasyDialogs
> module can often be run unchanged on Windows using this module. The
> module has been tested on Python 2.3 running on Windows NT, 98, XP, and
> 2003. I would appreciate feedback at jimmy at retzlaff.com about experience
> running this on other versions of Windows (I attempted to avoid APIs
> that weren't available on Windows 95 or Windows NT 4.0).
>

Is it correct behaviour that GetArgv() raises SystemExit, when the
cancel button is pressed?
Apart from that - very nice module (sorry, I have not tested it on the
windows versions you mentioned above)!

Thomas



From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Nov 16 15:59:17 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 15:59:17 -0500
Subject: Should I learn Python?
In-Reply-To: <200411161251.47070.philippecmartin@sbcglobal.net>
References: <200411161251.47070.philippecmartin@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <419A6A25.9010901@cloudthunder.com>

Philippe C. Martin wrote:

>I do not consider myself a great developper, yet I can code.
>
>For the past 17 years I have coded in many languages (assembly, basic ; 
>-(  Pascal, C, C++, ADA, ....) in many environment (regular os:Windows(all), 
>Unix, Linus, DOS, OS/2... - embedded: pSOS+, vxWorks, VRTX32...).
>
>I discovered python 5 months ago, fell in love within the first few days and:
>  
>
Same here.

>-) can code many times faster than ever before (yet I doubt my neurons have 
>reproduced)
>  
>
They have actually, your brain is continuously forming new neural 
connectors and pathways.  This process is enhanced via intellectual 
activity, such as programming.

>-) I currently work on a fairly sophisticated commercial smart card project 
>and have a prototype almost ready after 4 months and 6K lines of code. ==> it 
>would have taken at least  me two years and 20K lines more to reach this 
>using a "standard" high level language.
>  
>
I would bet that you are exaggerating slightly, no?

>
>My advice is this:
>
>1) learn it 'cause it's fun !
>  
>
!!

>2) if performances do not involve most of your software/you do _not_ need 
>deterministic/realtime behavior: use it because it's potentially the most 
>productive software language/environment available on this side of the 
>galaxy.
>  
>
!!

>3) learn it 'cause it's fun !
>
>  
>
Amen to that!

>
>Regards,
>
>Philippe
>  
>



From ville at spammers.com  Fri Nov 19 05:45:37 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 12:45:37 +0200
Subject: Trivial plugin framework?
Message-ID: <du7pt2ace26.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

Anyone know any good, low-fat, Open Source (BSD or better) trivial
plugin framework that would allow me to put a bunch of .py-files in a
directory, with contents like:

# /tmp/py/mymod.py

class C:
  pass

class CFact:
  pass

__plugindict__ = {
  'somefactory' : CFact
}


And then do

import plugin

# sees that implementation repository doesn't exist, so creates one by
# looking at all the modules. Having seen that 'somefactory' is in
# mymod.py it only execs that.

fact = plugin.get("/tmp/py", 'somefactory')

obj = fact()

?

It seems easy enough to do, in fact I'm implementing one as I speak
(well, not physically possible but anyway ;-), but I figured there has
to be something that fits the bell better than my would-be
implementation.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Nov 20 22:27:35 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 22:27:35 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org><mailman.6614.1100891946.5135.python-list@python.org>	<419E6C13.1040508@v.loewis.de><mailman.6634.1100915976.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<419fc77d$0$198$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <cnp1ut$913$1@sea.gmane.org>


""Martin v. L?wis"" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message 
news:419fc77d$0$198$9b622d9e at news.freenet.de...

> To a reader, but not in an implementation. I believe that Microsoft
> would have allowed "foo is not Nothing" if they knew how to implement
> it.

I believe, having read the entire mess, that 'foo Is Not Nothing' is 
currently meaningful in MS Basic with the meaning 'foo Is (Not Nothing)', 
as I suggested one might naively parse Python.  Hence, changing the meaning 
to make (Is Not) a unit, as in Python, would break code.  But someone with 
access to one or more versions of current MS Basic would have to verify 
either way.

Of course, they *could* have learned to implement Is Not by reading the 
Python source ;-)  But IsNot is certainly much easier.  To my mind, their 
problem is not having thought through the matter carefully enough when they 
introduced Is.  I appreciate that Guido appears to have done much better 15 
years ago.

Terry J. Reedy





From oct at redcatmedia.net  Tue Nov 16 16:39:20 2004
From: oct at redcatmedia.net (Andy Jacobs)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:39:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python 2.2 on Red Hat
Message-ID: <BDC02405.3068%oct@redcatmedia.net>

Hi all

I'm trying to install some anti spam software called ASK.  This relies on
Python2.2 whereas my Cobalt RAQ4 is running 1.5.2 so I need to upgrade from
RPM.

I've done a search and everything for Python2.2 says that it's for Red Hat
7, 8 or 9.  I'm running 6.  I don't want to just go at this like a bull in a
china shop so wondered what the advice here might be.

Regards

Andy



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Nov 13 02:56:06 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 07:56:06 GMT
Subject: permuting letters and fairy tales
References: <67lld8kr76.fsf@aster.homelinux.net>
	<41957f26.318790786@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <4195b412.332338677@news.oz.net>

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 03:30:44 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
[...]
>>
>Don't know the speed, but this seems fairly self-documenting to me
>(with a little thought ;-):
>
> >>> import random
> >>> def messwith(s):
> ...     seqisalpha = False; seq = []
> ...     for c in s:
> ...         if c.isalpha() == seqisalpha: seq.append(c); continue
> ...         elif seqisalpha and len(seq)>3:
> ...             mid = seq[1:-1]
> ...             random.shuffle(mid)
> ...             seq[1:-1] = mid
> ...         yield ''.join(seq)
> ...         seq = [c]
> ...         seqisalpha = c.isalpha()
> ...     if seq: yield ''.join(seq)
> ...
> >>> def jumble(s): return ''.join(messwith(s))
> ...
> >>> jumble('This is an example. It has 7 words ;-)')
> 'This is an elmxape. It has 7 wrods ;-)'
>
Hum, didn't think enough ;-/

 >>> jumble('last is antidisestablishmentarianism')
 'last is antidisestablishmentarianism'
 >>> jumble('last is antidisestablishmentarianism')
 'lsat is antidisestablishmentarianism'

Bad logic. Needs a repeat of the elif test and suite before the last yield line ;-/
I kind of smelled that as I was posting, but was too lazy to identify the offensive
material ;-)

But it does bring up a general problem of final logic in an iter loop. ISTM it could
be useful to have an option not to raise StopIteration, but instead keep returning
a specified sentinel at the end, something like file.read returns '' repeatedly at EOF.
E.g., I could have used it like (untested, and impossible since no such iter option ;-):

def messwith(s):
    seqisalpha = False; seq = []
    next = iter(s, EOSEQ='').next
    while True:
        c = next()
        if c and c.isalpha() == seqisalpha: seq.append(c); continue
        elif seqisalpha and len(seq)>3:
            mid = seq[1:-1]
            random.shuffle(mid)
            seq[1:-1] = mid
        yield ''.join(seq)
        if not c: break
        seq = [c]
        seqisalpha = c.isalpha()

In the meanwhile, I don't like any of the workarounds, but maybe
I just need some real sleep ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Mon Nov 29 16:08:02 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:08:02 -0800
Subject: Parallel Python on PowerMac?
In-Reply-To: <ukKqd.42868$Z14.18224@news.indigo.ie>
References: <1p1mclu2nq7e8$.1o0rc9ygt2rdy$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<ukKqd.42868$Z14.18224@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <cog33i$gtc$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Alan Kennedy wrote:

> Although, iff your prospective machine supports System V IPC, you might 
> want to check out PoSH.
> 
> http://poshmodule.sourceforge.net

It uses inline assembly, so that's a no-go on the PPC unless someone 
ports the assembly code.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From esj at harvee.org  Sat Nov  6 20:35:32 2004
From: esj at harvee.org (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 20:35:32 -0500
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <87zn1uwuxh.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.6004.1099753862.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<87zn1uwuxh.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <418D7BE4.6010301@harvee.org>

Israel Raj T wrote:
> "Eric S. Johansson" <esj at harvee.org> writes:
> 
> 
>>I will argue that we might want to start including in the
>>headers of mailing list/newsgroups a dana reference. 
> 
> 
> I would argue that this would debase newsgroups even further.

debase in what way?  I certainly don't see enough money flowing that it 
would lead major python contributors down a road of debauchery and 
depravity.  at least, those that aren't already there.

First, there would be a bunch of things required to make this work.  A 
pay on the newsreader client, a connection to a payment system, a 
registered identity for payment.  This is not a trivial amount of work.

Second, much of the conflict around various forms of intellectual 
property boil down to getting paid.  By building a low overhead 
mechanism through which people could get paid for all sorts of 
intellectual property (questions answered, music, video, writings, 
code), we would jumpstart a new economic engine.

initially there would be a big rush of everybody on the face the planet 
trying to get that dollar payment.  It would probably be not unlike the 
swarms of beggars that surround rich westerners when they travel through 
less well-off regions.  We would evolve filters and rating systems which 
would be used to cut down on the noise.  Eventually some contributors 
would fallaway and others would persist and get better.

nothing would compel anyone to pay anything.  But I could see eventually 
folks being rated on whether or not they do pay.  If you've got someone 
who's always asking time-consuming questions and not paying anything, it 
would be totally appropriate to filter out that person.

in the same community of users, you would have some people operating on 
a gift economy, others operating on a financial economy and I believe 
somehow, it would work.  I can't yet describe how but I believe it would 
work.

---eric



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Nov  9 08:39:28 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 08:39:28 -0500
Subject: BayPIGgies: November 11, 7:30pm
Message-ID: <20041109133928.GA5599@panix.com>

The next meeting of BayPIGgies will be Thurs, Nov 11 at 7:30pm.  

Python was designed for easy integration with C, but it has never been
trivial.  There are many different tools available, each with different
strengths and weaknesses.  Chad will be leading a series of
mini-tutorials to expose the audience to some or all of the following:
Boost, ctypes, Pyrex, Scons, SIP, SWIG, Weave

We haven't settled the agenda, so go to the BayPIGgies mailing list and
vote!


BayPIGgies meetings are in Stanford, California.  For more information
and directions, see http://www.baypiggies.net/


Before the meeting, we may meet at 6pm for dinner in downtown Palo Alto.
Discussion of dinner plans is handled on the BayPIGgies mailing list.


Advance notice: The December 9 meeting agenda has not been set.  Please
send e-mail to baypiggies at baypiggies.net if you want to make a
presentation.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Sat Nov  6 07:31:57 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 10:31:57 -0200
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04> <418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <864d37090411060431174e2daf@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 6 Nov 2004 08:12:10 +0100, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Sufficiently advanced cluelessness is indistinguishable from malice".

Although not originally yours, anyway: +100 QOTW! 

> But why that should be so this year more than last year, say, is not
> clear to me...

I think that (at least for c.l.py) it has something to do with the
fact that several old-timers are moving away from the list. I don't
know if this is a cause or a consequence. But it's not a coincidence,
IMHO.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Tue Nov 23 19:04:34 2004
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:04:34 -0600
Subject: GIF frame delay
In-Reply-To: <1100769942.849016.185380@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1100769942.849016.185380@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200411231804.34598.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Thursday 18 November 2004 03:25 am, Stephen Emslie wrote:
> Does anyone know of any python imaging modules that can change the
> delay between frames of an animated GIF?

No. Python imaging libs are pretty biased against GIFs because
of the patent problems (mostly over now?).

I personally would recommend using system calls to control
*gifsicle*, which is the smartest free tool I know for dealing
with GIFs. It can do essentially anything the GIF format supports,
which is a lot more than you can do with PIL or ImageMagick or
other tools.

Anyway, this is what I use when it comes up.  There is still some
noise about the patent issue, and this is why Debian still calls
gifsicle "non-free", but the program itself is GPL free-licensed.
If you're going to use GIFs, this is as free as you can get.

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From exarkun at divmod.com  Tue Nov 30 08:54:45 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:54:45 GMT
Subject: Class methods in Python/C?
In-Reply-To: <41ac69f2$0$25765$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <20041130135445.17481.1328895613.divmod.quotient.12104@ohm>

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 22:39:15 +1000, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at email.com> wrote:
>Craig Ringer wrote:
> > Hi folks
> > 
> > I've been doing some looking around, but have been unable to find out
> > how to implement class methods on Python objects written in C. "Why are
> > you using C?" you ask?
> > 
> > Yeah, so do I. However, I need to provide bindings for an application
> > that Python is embedded into, and thanks to Qt the bindings are going to
> > be both simple and quite powerful. However, I need a way to do class
> > methods...
> > 
> > If anybody has any tips on this, It'd be much appreciated.
> 
> You probably want to look at staticmethod(). (classmethod() is slightly 
> different, and probably not what you want. In fact, classmethod() is practically 
> *never* what you want. Guido wrote it himself, and even he ended up not using it)

  Funny, I find the exact opposite to be the case... ;)  Static methods are glorified free functions, but class methods participate usefully in inheritence hierarchies - why would anyone want the former?

  Jp


From ruses at users.ch  Tue Nov 30 14:49:24 2004
From: ruses at users.ch (not [quite] more i squared)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:49:24 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org><mailman.6614.1100891946.5135.python-list@python.org>	<419E6C13.1040508@v.loewis.de>
	<mailman.6634.1100915976.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41ACCEC4.5080602@users.ch>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> 
> To be, this 'patent' is so absurd that I initially had difficulty believing 
> to to be real and not a joke.

So did I - a trojan horse like Sokal's in 1996, but substituting

Social Texts --> Patent Office
Social Scientists --> Patent Lawyers
Physicists --> Software Engineers



From jadethacker at hotmail.com  Thu Nov  4 18:26:23 2004
From: jadethacker at hotmail.com (mee-shell)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 15:26:23 -0800
Subject: File Upload Problem
Message-ID: <3d199ee1.0411041526.25c975f3@posting.google.com>

I have a page with the file upload as the following:

<form action="UploadConfirm.psp" method="post"
enctype="multipart/form-data">
<input type="file" name="UploadFile"><br><br>
<a href="javascript:document.forms[0].submit();">submit</a><br><br>
</form>

after submit, I'd like to retrieve the file name, and I have written
something like this:

<%
import sys
import os

if form.has_key('UploadFile'):
   TheFile = form['UploadFile']
   filename = TheFile.filename

else:
   TheFile = 'No file was uploaded, im empty'
   filename = ''

%>

when I tested it, I got an error after submitting a file, and the
error message was:
AttributeError: 'StringField' object has no attribute 'filename'

Can anyone tell me what cause the problem and how I can fix it? 
Thanks a lot.


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov 15 19:48:50 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 01:48:50 +0100
Subject: round() to nearest .05 ?
References: <i7KdnYIX-5yQigTcRVn-gg@is.co.za>
Message-ID: <cnbipd$evs$00$1@news.t-online.com>

> What's the best way to get there? Should I write a function to manage my
> rounding or is there a simpler/better way?

Others have pointed out how to achieve the rounding - I just want to add
that using floats for currency values isn't the best choice. Depending on
your version of python, check out these links:

http://fixedpoint.sourceforge.net/
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0327.html


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From someone at somewhere.com  Wed Nov 17 01:13:33 2004
From: someone at somewhere.com (PyBo)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 06:13:33 GMT
Subject: Rounding curiosity
In-Reply-To: <419ad276$0$1581$a1866201@visi.com>
References: <20041116182254.6cb5a603.bartley9@pacbell.net>
	<419ad276$0$1581$a1866201@visi.com>
Message-ID: <h_Bmd.45526$QJ3.10543@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2004-11-17, PyBo <bartley9 at pacbell.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>>What's wrong with this picture?
> 
> 
> Wrong is in the mind of the beholder.  ;)
> 
> 
>>>>>x = 500000000.0
>>>>>y = x / (1024 * 1024)
>>>>>y
>>
>>476.837158203125
>>
>>>>>z = round(y, 2)
>>>>>z
>>
>>476.83999999999997
>>
>>I have tried this and get the same result using different
>>CPU's and operating systems.
> 
> 
> There's a reason for that:
> 
>   http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general.html#why-are-floating-point-calculations-so-inaccurate
>   http://docs.python.org/tut/node15.html
> 
> 
>>Obviously, '476.83999999999997' is not rounded to two decimal
>>places.
> 
> 
> Of course it isn't.  Computers don't use decimal.  They use
> binary: aye, there's the rub...
> 
> 
>>Or am I doing something wrong?
> 
> 
> You're using binary floating point math without understanding
> it.  If you tell us what you're actually trying to accomplish,
> we can probably tell you how to do it.  
> 
> If you're just worried about how it looks on the screen:
> 
> 
>>>>print "%0.2f" % round(5e8/(1024*1024),2)
> 
> 476.84
> 
> If you want the computer to fib for you, it will. :)
> 
To all those who are feeling so smug and superior, perhapts you could 
have noticed that I was pointing out that the round() function does not
perform as documented?

By the way,
   print "%0.2f" % (5e8/(1024*1024))
yields the same result as
   print "%0.2f" % round(5e8/(1024*1024),2)
so the 'round()' portion of the expression is superfluous.



From len-1 at telus.net  Sun Nov 28 14:02:16 2004
From: len-1 at telus.net (Lenard Lindstrom)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 19:02:16 GMT
Subject: subclassing extension type and assignment to __class__
References: <41a87eb5$0$13482$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> <ekifcac8.fsf@telus.net>
	<41a912a8$0$25051$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <llcler3b.fsf@telus.net>

gregory lielens <gregory.lielens at fft.be> writes:

> Thanks for your answer, it means I am not the only one having this
> kind of problem...
> > I have just run into the same thing with the builtin list type. The trick
> > was not to declare my subclass directly from list, but rather a subclass
> > of list. So try this:
> > class PClassBase(_PClass):
> >     pass
> > class PClass(PClassBase):
> >     ...
> > class PClass2(PClassBase):
> >     ...
> >
> I think here you mean PClass2(PClassBase2), with a
> PClassBase2(_PClass2): In my example the 2 class do not inherit fro
> the same base class...
> > Why? I cannot say other than I have noted that Python new-style classes
> > and extension types are not quite the same thing. That is, a new-style
> > class is a particular kind of extension type.
> 
> I see how it can help me making PClassBase a PClass (or any type
> derived from PClassBase), but what I fail to see is how this will
> allow me to change a _PClass into one of it's derived types: this is
> necessary for updating methods of _PClass2 that return object of type
> _PClass (and on this I do not have much control, both _PClass and
> _PClass2 and all of their methods are implemented in C++). To updates
> theses methods for the pure python derived class PClass2, I have to
> make them return the python class PClass instead of the original
> _PClass, which means I still have to transform a _PClass object into
> its derived type PClassBase or PClass, and at this time things go
> pear-shaped :-(....or is there something I miss?
> 
Sorry for the confusion. This looks like a situation best handled with
embedding rather than inheritance. The PClass and PClass2 wrapper classes
can share whatever relationship _PClass and _PClass2 share.

class PClass:
    def __init__(inst=None):
        if inst is None:
            inst = _PClass()
        self._inst = inst
    def override_method(self, ...):
        self._inst.override_method(...)
    def new_method(self, ...):
        ...

class PClass2:
        self._inst = _PClass2()
    def troublesome_method(self):
        base = PClass(self._inst.troublesome_method())
        ...
        return base

Alternatively you could provide a way to pass PClass back to the extension module
for _PClass2.troublesome_method to use instead of _PClass when creating a return
object. But the embedding approach seems more appropriate when _PClass is not to
be used directly.

Lenard Lindstrom
<len-l at telus.net>


From natunika at gmx.de  Tue Nov 16 10:07:53 2004
From: natunika at gmx.de (Silke)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 07:07:53 -0800
Subject: python interface to GraphicsMagick
Message-ID: <39ba6e78.0411160707.6c8fc621@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I've been trying to get PythonMagick for either Windows or Linux from
the internet, but aparently it's off the table... Does anyone know if
there's a similar interface available somewhere?

Thanks for your help!

Silke


From pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com  Sun Nov 14 15:27:28 2004
From: pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com (Pekka Niiranen)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:27:28 +0200
Subject: Encoding confusion, please help
In-Reply-To: <4197a8bb$0$151$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <41978cdd$0$799$39db0f71@news.song.fi>
	<4197a8bb$0$151$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <4197c03f$0$12683$39db0f71@news.song.fi>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:

> Pekka Niiranen wrote:
> 
>>  >>> sys.getdefaultencoding()
>> 'iso-8859-1'
> 
> 
> This is already troublesome; it means somebody (perhaps you)
> has tampered with your Python installation. The default system
> encoding is ascii, and it should not be changed unless
> absolutely necessary.

I do not recall changing it manually so just in case I reinstalled
latest versions of my default set of python tools in this order:

Python-2.3.4.exe
pywin32-203.win32-py2.3.exe
wxPython2.5-win32-unicode-2.5.3.1-py23.exe
ctypes-0.9.2.win32-py2.3.exe
numarray-1.1.win32-py2.3.exe
pychecker-0.8.14

and now it IS "ascii".

> 
>> When should I use locale.getpreferredencoding() and when
>> sys.getdefaultencoding()?
> 
> 
> There should never be a need to probe sys.getdefaultencoding(),
> as it should always be ascii.
> 
> locale.getpreferredencoding() should be used when converting
> Unicode strings to and from byte strings to be stored on the local
> system (e.g. in files). Notice that this may or may not be adequate
> also when printing data to the terminal. Specifically, on Windows,
> the terminal often uses yet another encoding.

Can I find out the terminal encoding somehow?

> 
>> Why two different encodings 'cp1252' and 'iso-8859-1' are provided
>> for my Windows 2000 system?
> 
> 
> Python provides many more encodings, including UTF-8, KOI-8R,
> ISO-8859-2, cp1250, and so on. Having many codecs available in
> the library is a good thing, because different applications have
> different needs.
> 
> I somehow feel this doesn't answer your question, but then, I don't
> fully understand the question.

The reason I asked was that since my Window's regional settings
matches "cp1252" I was puzzled by sys.getdefaultencoding()
not being the same.

> Regards,
> Martin


From foo at bar.com  Tue Nov  2 22:21:24 2004
From: foo at bar.com (Steve Menard)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 22:21:24 -0500
Subject: JMS for CPython via JPype?
In-Reply-To: <1b2k1czwwox4i$.ae466jlsmeu2$.dlg@40tude.net>
References: <1b2k1czwwox4i$.ae466jlsmeu2$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <b9Yhd.50895$ag5.2219651@wagner.videotron.net>

Wolfgang Keller wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> sorry for the potentially dumb question, but - would JPype make it possible 
> for a CPython program to use JMS? It seems that JMS is going to become a
> standard for (java-based) MOM, so as an excellent middleware language it
> should be possible for CPython to somehow "talk" (and understand) JMS...
> 
> TIA,
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Wolfgang Keller

I am not very well versed in JMS, but unless it absolutely REQUIRE 
subclassing, JPype will allow you to make full use for it without problem.

How to actually interpret the contents of the JMS message is left as an 
exercise to the reader ;)

Steve



From grahamd at dscpl.com.au  Mon Nov 22 04:59:16 2004
From: grahamd at dscpl.com.au (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 01:59:16 -0800
Subject: Python with Apache 2.0
References: <89cc6e1f.0411190632.2976b3e1@posting.google.com>
	<306sikF2sueanU1@uni-berlin.de> <S_xnd.1300$QR.188@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <dc6f5c99.0411220159.1e934bcd@posting.google.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message news:<S_xnd.1300$QR.188 at lakeread01>...
> Damjan wrote:
> 
> >>Does python support threads safely along with Apache 2.0 in web
> >>applications.
> > 
> > 
> > Are you talking about mod_python?
> > If so, then yes. But note that Apache threads entering the python
> > interpreter (via mod_python) will be serialized on the GIL.
> > 
> > 
> This is true, but it doesn't tell the whoel story: mod_python has taken 
> care to make it possible to configure multiple interpreters - on a 
> per-directory basis if necessary. Obviously they all share the pure 
> code, but if I undestand correctly each has its own data space, and 
> hence its own GIL.

There is actually a possible bug in PythonInterpPerDirectory directive
which applies even if threading isn't being used. Specifically, mod_python
doesn't calculate the interpreter name correctly and although access to a
directory by name and something in it should logically resolve to the
same interpreter name it doesn't. More information can be found at:

  http://www.modpython.org/pipermail/mod_python/2004-November/016788.html

Overall, I am not sure that PythonInterpPerDirectory is a good idea, but
then it probably was created to workaround the short comings of the
module importing system in mod_python which makes it impossible in
mod_python.publisher to have an index.py file in separate directories
within the context of the one interpreter. It wouldn't take much effort to
fix this limitation in the module importing system, but there doesn't seem
to be much interest in doing so.


From domma at procoders.net  Mon Nov 22 05:51:25 2004
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma (Procoders))
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:51:25 +0100
Subject: Import problem
In-Reply-To: <cnseqa$g6s$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <cnseqa$g6s$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cnsgb8$sep$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Achim Domma (Procoders) wrote:

> Seems like I'm mixing up something in a very bad way, but I have no idea 
> what I'm doing wrong!?

I have moved the calculation of VERSION to a module _Version.py which 
contains a function Version(), which is imported by __init__.py and 
_C.py. That works and is much cleaner, but I would still be happy if 
somebody could explain we, what's going wrong.

regards,
Achim


From fake at not-real.bogus  Tue Nov  2 16:43:13 2004
From: fake at not-real.bogus (Matt Garman)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 21:43:13 GMT
Subject: dynamic or on-the-fly color changing in curses?
Message-ID: <slrncofvrn.34f.fake@sewage.raw-sewage.fake>

I'd like to write a class or module in python that allows me to do
on-the-fly color changing in the curses module.

I'm thinking about something along the lines of this:

    addstr(y, x, 'hello', brightyellow, blue)

The module would automatically interpret the above as

    curses.init_pair(i, curses.COLOR_YELLOW, curses.COLOR_BLUE)
    addstr(y, x, 'hello', curses.color_pair(i) | curses.A_BOLD)

What I thought I could get away with is constantly redefining the
same color_pair, as in the following:

    curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_RED, curses.COLOR_BLACK)
    scr.addstr(0, 0, 'Hello, world', curses.color_pair(1))

    curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_BLUE, curses.COLOR_BLACK)
    scr.addstr(1, 0, 'Hello, world', curses.color_pair(1))

    curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_GREEN, curses.COLOR_BLACK)
    scr.addstr(2, 0, 'Hello, world', curses.color_pair(1))

But when I do that, all strings show up as green.  My assumption
here is that all strings are assigned to color_pair(1), and when
those strings are drawn, they assume the most recent definition of
color_pair(1).  In other words, it appears you can't "recycle" color
pair definitions.

So my second thought was to just pre-define every possible
combination, but, at least on Linux, I'm limited to 63 unique
colors, whereas I can create more than 63 color combinations
(foreground, background, and attribute combinations).

Am I strictly limited to using at most curses.COLOR_PAIRS colors on
a per-application basis?

Thanks,
Matt

-- 
Matt Garman
email at: http://raw-sewage.net/index.php?file=email


From nick at craig-wood.com  Thu Nov 11 07:31:16 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 11 Nov 2004 12:31:16 GMT
Subject: Python for Reverse Engineering
References: <cmhdi4$7vi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<418c50ad$1_3@omega.dimensional.com> <418C54E9.2000409@vt.edu>
	<mailman.6042.1099806403.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmlhv8$ajc$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cmlj6b$7j9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <cmmihf$7af$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<IVrkd.177971$%k.126855@pd7tw2no> <419265E6.4020200@echoblast.com>
Message-ID: <slrncp6jt6.mfd.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

James S <james-newsgroups at echoblast.com> wrote:
>  I got a few questions about the strings, so I figured I would share the 
>  answers.
> 
>  You wrote the algorithm that generated these strings?
> 
>  Yes
> 
>  How are the strings verified and proven to be legitimate?
> 
>  There is a checksum encoded in the string that provides a basic check. 
>  There is a unquice number encoded in each string that represents each 
>  possible key.
> 
>  There are 28629150 valid keys in the space of 28629150^5

ie about 24 bits of serial number in about 123 bits of key.  If done
properly 123 bits of keys will ensure it isn't broken.

>  Does the same algorithm that created them verify them?
> 
>  The same string is feed back through the algo in reverse. Providing the 
>  origional information that generated it.

Here is my solution to the problem ;-) If your solution is anything
like this then it will never be broken!  However if you keep the keys
to the algorithm in code you give to the user then it can be reverse
engineered of course.

$ python serial_key.py 314159265 141421356               

Original serial 314159265
User Key is  CRYX7T2FedtoJteoeeJx4MKiNvAgYSmKOB
Decoded serial number is 314159265
This is a valid key True

Original serial 141421356
User Key is  CL33jINQiZo8xMqI0gnh3CCtutc1cXdfxH
Decoded serial number is 141421356
This is a valid key True


"""
Make a user key using md5

The secret keys must be kept secret, apart from that no harm in
publishing the algorithm

The user key is serial + md5(serial)

The serial numbers are fixed length strings and are encoded
unencrypted (but obfuscated) into the user key.

This is encoded into base 62 using str_to_long from ASCII to long then
long_to_str to get the long into base 62

This method is crypto secure IMHO (perhaps you'd better use SHA256 if
you are feeling really paranoid though!)

"""

import md5

SERIAL_LEN = 9
ASCII   = "".join([chr(i) for i in range(256)])
KEYBASE = "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0123456789"
KEY1    = "secret key"
KEY2    = "another secret key"

def str_to_long(s, chars):
    "Return a long representation of a string"
    base = len(chars)
    n = 0L
    for c in s:
        n *= base
        n += chars.index(c)
    return n

def long_to_str(n, chars):
    "Return a string representation of a long"
    base = len(chars)
    s = []
    while n:
        n, c = divmod(n, base)
        s.append(chars[c])
    s.reverse()
    return "".join(s)

def make_digest(serial):
    "Makes a digest from a serial number and secret keys"
    return md5.md5(KEY1 + serial + KEY2).digest()

def encode_key(serial, digest):
    "Encode the serial + digest in human readable form - returns a string"
    assert len(serial) == SERIAL_LEN
    return long_to_str(str_to_long(serial + digest, ASCII), KEYBASE)

def decode_key(key):
    "Returns a serial and digest decoded from a key"
    decoded = long_to_str(str_to_long(key, KEYBASE), ASCII)
    return decoded[:SERIAL_LEN], decoded[SERIAL_LEN:]

def check_digest(serial, digest):
    "Returns bool whether serial matches digest"
    return make_digest(serial) == digest

if __name__ == "__main__":
    import sys
    if len(sys.argv) <= 1:
        print "Put some serials on the command line"
    for serial in sys.argv[1:]:
        serial = serial.ljust(SERIAL_LEN)[:SERIAL_LEN]
        print
        print "Original serial", serial
        digest = make_digest(serial)
        user_key = encode_key(serial, digest)
        print "User Key is ", user_key

        # Now decode user_key to show how its done
        decoded_serial, decoded_digest = decode_key(user_key)
        print "Decoded serial number is", decoded_serial
        print "This is a valid key", check_digest(decoded_serial, decoded_digest)



-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Nov 26 18:43:06 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:43:06 -0800
Subject: 1 file, multiple threads
In-Reply-To: <799208ed.0411261139.794c5a68@posting.google.com>
References: <41a7000c$0$16489$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<799208ed.0411261139.794c5a68@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10qffliou04dt1a@corp.supernews.com>

Jason wrote:

>>If I have multiple threads reading from the same file, would that be a
>>problem?
>>    
>>
>
>As long as you open each file with 'r' or 'rb' access only, it is not
>a problem.  I believe you can even write to that file from one (but
>only one) thread while reading the file in multiple other threads. 
>  
>

You *can*, but due to buffering issues, it's likely that the reader 
threads will not see changes made by the writer thread properly, and may 
have issues with separate disk-reads which nominally stop/start at the 
same location not actually matching because the underlying disk file has 
changed.  (Note that disk reads, which go into a buffer, do not 
necessarily correlate in any predictable way to calls to the read*() 
family of functions.)

In order to ensure consistent access to a mutable (i.e. not read-only) 
file from multiple threads, it would be necessary to ensure that only 
one thread was accessing the file at a given instant (i.e. use some form 
of locking/synchronizing mechanism), and to be careful to flush all 
buffers both before and after any file access.  If the file can change 
at all, then the only time that a given thread can make *any* 
assumptions about the state of the file is during a single section in 
which that thread has exclusive access to the file.

Much simpler to designate a single file-handler 'server', and have each 
thread access the file only through the intermediary of this server 
(which could be implemented as a separate thread itself).  The server 
then manages all of the file buffers, both in and out, and can ensure 
that each access happens in a consistent way.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From drew at gremlinhosting.com  Thu Nov 18 18:10:14 2004
From: drew at gremlinhosting.com (Andrew James)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:10:14 +0000
Subject: Design of a URL encoded language to specify sets of files on a
	WebDAV server
Message-ID: <1100819414.30315.48.camel@odin>

Gentlemen,
I'm currently in the process of designing a language which will be used
to specify sets of files on a WebDAV server, encoded in a URL. The aims
of the language are to (in no particular order):
 * Be concise, aesthetic and easy to type
 * Be as similar as possible to existing query languages
 * Allow for (nested) boolean operations
 * Be cross-platform (so don't include any characters which can't be
used in filenames on *NIX or Win32)

There is a project Wiki which I will release once I've got it into a
semi-stable state.

This is part of a wider project (in Python, of course) which I'm
developing for my degree but which may have more uses. I'd like to draw
on all the experience here and ask some questions so that I can better
shape the implementation to suit the people who may choose to use it. 

I would very much appreciate it if anyone could spare the time to have a
look through the specification and documentation below and let me know
about the following:

 * Whether you think the language is up to the job (and if not, why not)
 * Any additions which you think should be made that will increase
functionality and/or decrease ambiguity
 * Any common pitfalls which you think I might fall into
 * Any bugs in my specification

There will be a more verbose query language (probably SQLXML) also
implemented in the project but one key feature is that users should be
able to search by simply typing something into the 'Goto' box...

Well, that's about all. Please see the specification below and I hope to
be hearing your feedback in the near future.

Regards,
Andrew

MetaFS Path Query Language
==========================

Background
One way of specifying search criteria in MetaFS is by using a dynamic
URL, making it trivial to work with MetaFS from the command line. This
document explains the characteristics and formatting of these queries
and offers some examples to be expanded upon.


Diving In
The query language used by MetaFS is closely related to XPath/LaTeX,
with a few restrictions around reserved characters in filenames. The
basic format of a query is:

{BASE}/fs/catA/catB/catC[criteria]

An example of a simple query based on this format would be:

{BASE}/fs/photos/america/beach[type=jpeg,author='Andrew James']

This query is equivalent to searching for files which are in the
photos,america and beach categories (the intersection), have a jpeg mime
type and whose author is Andrew James.

This type of query should be enough to perform most sorts of simple
searches, but MetaFS also includes some advanced features that can be
accessed with more complicated queries.


Advanced Features
Boolean Logic Engine
MetaFS includes a complete boolean logic engine which allows for both
grouping of terms and the boolean operators and, or and not.

Reserved Operator Characters 

/ 
Boolean AND (categories only)
^ 
Boolean OR (categories only)
~ 
Boolean NOT (categories only)
() 
Term Grouping (categories only)
- 
Less than (criteria only)
+ 
More than (criteria only)
= 
Logical EQUALS (criteria only)
! 
Logical NOT (criteria only)
~ 
Logical CONTAINS (criteria only)
, 
Boolean AND (criteria only)

This allows us to create much more complex queries, such as

{BASE}/fs/photos/~(america^france)

or even

{BASE}/fs/music/mp3[artist~'Jackson',artist!~'Micheal']
Operator Order of Precedence
The operator order of precedence for filesystem queries is as follows:

Categories 
(), ~, ^, / 
Criteria 
',', !, (=, -, +, ~) 
Namespaces
Metadata criteria can not only include the default metadata attributes
which MetaFS assigns to files but also namespaces. These are simply
defined by prefixing the name with a namespace and colon, as in XML. For
example, one could specify criteria like:

[owner=drew,moddate>10/10/2004,ns:bitrate='128']


== Query Language Grammar == 
Below is the initial (and buggy, no doubt) specification for the MetaFS
query language in the TPG form of BNF.


Language Specification
   # Tokens
    separator space '\s+';
    token Num '\d+(.\d+)?';
    token Ident '[a-zA-Z]\w*';
    token CharList '\'.*\'';
    token CatUnOp '~';
    token CatOp '[/\^]';
    token MetaOp '[=\+\-!]';
    token Date '\d\d-\d\d-\d\d\d\d';
    token FileID '(\w+\.\w+)';
    token EmptyLine '^$';
    
    # Rules
    START -> CatExpr ('\[' MetaExpr '\]')?
    | FileID
    | EmptyLine
    ;
    CatExpr -> CatUnOp CatName
    | CatName (CatOp CatExpr)*
    ;
    CatName -> Ident
    | '\(' CatExpr '\)'
    ;
    MetaExpr -> MetaCrit (',' MetaCrit)*
    ;
    MetaCrit -> Ident MetaOp Value
    ;
    Value -> CharList | Num | Date
    ;

Test Queries
The following test queries have been run through the parser to check
whether they are parsed correctly. The version of the language grammar
above does this without errors. As you can see, the grammar allows for
term nesting, unary operators and arbitrarily complex boolean
expressions. In addition to this, file metadata querying is available
for extra filtering.

parseTests = (
    "simple",
    "this/is/a/simple/test",
    "a/test/with/metadata[author='drew',date=10]",
    "music/mp3/~jackson/michael",
    "docs/latex/~(computer^science)",
    "media/video/((comedy/action)^thriller)"
)
-- 
Andrew James <drew at gremlinhosting.com>



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 16 15:47:15 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:47:15 +0100
Subject: using python with -c (as a inline execution in shell)
References: <a2972632.0411160744.d05557c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gnd5i4.vvceul7nwgn0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

les ander <les_ander at yahoo.com> wrote:

> but suppose I want to read from the stdin (piped) i don't know how to do
> this since python -c "from sys import stdin; for x in stdin: print x"
> 
> gives a syntax error.
> 
> Anyone one know how to do this?

Not _good_ ways, but:

import sys; print sys.stdin.read()

import sys; sys.stdout.write(sys.stdin.read())

import sys; sys.stdout.writelines(sys.stdin)

are some approaches.  None matches the double-spacing effect you appear
to be after, but changing every '\n' into two ain't _that_ hard, e.g.

import sys; print sys.stdin.read().replace('\n','\n\n')

etc, will give kinda the same doublespacing your approach would give if
it worked.  Still, Python just isn't oneline-oriented...


Alex


From abkhd at earth.co.jp  Mon Nov 22 01:52:23 2004
From: abkhd at earth.co.jp (A. B., Khalid)
Date: 21 Nov 2004 22:52:23 -0800
Subject: ANN: pyMinGW support for Python 2.4c1 is available
Message-ID: <8ad8ad0a.0411212252.3c6ae425@posting.google.com>

This is to inform those interested in compiling Python in MinGW that
an updated version of pyMinGW is now available.


Get it from here:
http://jove.prohosting.com/iwave/ipython/pyMinGW.html


Regards
Khalid


From belred1 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  5 02:54:50 2004
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 07:54:50 GMT
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <alGid.47522$HA.14125@attbi_s01>

Maurice LING wrote:
> 
>> at work, we use java and python.  we have projects using swing and 
>> others using wxpython.  we have applications that do intensive io and 
>> others that do intensive cpu. we have not found that python is slower 
>> than java.   in fact, when it comes to gui's, our swing apps take 
>> "forever" to startup and when when garbage collector starts, the whole 
>> app just freezes for about 15 seconds.  our wxpython apps, start right 
>> up and "feel" faster and snappier.  can you show an example of where 
>> python's "slow" speed as compared to java's "fast" speed has 
>> negatively impacted your application or has been noticable in any 
>> way?  i know this is a trolling question you have posted, but i'm 
>> actually very interested knowing why you have said this.
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> bryan
> 
> 
> Thanks, lets just say that I have no interest in trolling.
> 
> 1st of all, I thought it is somehow common knowledge that python is 
> slower than java in many cases. Though I may be wrong... When I do a 
> Google search, this came up...
> 
> http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/python-vs-java.html
> 
> although http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/~prechelt/Biblio/jccpprtTR.pdf 
> showsjust the opposite.
> 
> What I need to work on now is something that requires speed (and dealing 
> with files), without user's intervention. So the part about users' delay 
> time is not in the equation. My choices boils down to Python or Java.
> 
> Cheers
> maurice

but you aren't saying exactly _what_ requires speed and exactly what your requirements for the project is. you are being 
way too general here for anyone to really help you. as for working with files, i much rather do that in python than 
java.   i may be wrong, but i thought java's file IO was pretty much a thin wrapper over c.  so i don't think you will 
have any speed problems with python's file IO compared to java's.   also, just for fun, write the following fully 
working python program in java:

import time
t = time.time()
s = open('in.txt').read()
open('out.txt', 'w').write(s)
print time.time() - t

(by the way...i was able to write the above lines of python code without referring to a manual :)

if it's not too much trouble, could you please post your code here along with the time results for the above code and 
your java code?  you can test a small file and a large one.

thanks,

bryan


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Nov  4 19:06:12 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 19:06:12 -0500
Subject: ?? Modules for GPIB and Ethernet ??
In-Reply-To: <21240387.0411041337.7b17172b@posting.google.com>
References: <21240387.0411041337.7b17172b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <0-GdnfBAPrZPXBfcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>

Chaser wrote:
> Just wondering if anyone knows where I can find modules for NI-488.2
> GPIB and for a generic ethercard?

Can't help directly with the GPIB thing, except to note that
using something like ctypes it is generally pretty easy to
wrap the NI libraries for such things.

As for the other question: do you actually mean you want a
way to talk "raw" Ethernet, or are you just trying to do
some networking?

-Peter


From jlnespoulous at netscape.net  Sun Nov 21 15:54:59 2004
From: jlnespoulous at netscape.net (Leuk)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:54:59 +0100
Subject: Help for newbie
References: <419f06a8$0$32335$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<slrncq1so1.4m6.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <41a10093$0$4569$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Thanks very much for your information
But I would like to know how I'll write and retreive my objets when my 
system will be written in Java. At what time or how I'll switch to Python.
My system is intended to supervise a network and get objects (as processor 
attributes, system attributes ...) and after I would like to save these 
objects in an Object database (I think is more simple). Is for that I would 
prefer to use ZODB. But is it possible?
Jean-Louis

"Dave Cook" <davecook at nowhere.net> a ?crit dans le message de news: 
slrncq1so1.4m6.davecook at localhost.localdomain...
> On 2004-11-20, Leuk <jlnespoulous at netscape.net> wrote:
>
>> I would like to use ZODB, but I'm a newbie in Python, so I do not know if 
>> it
>> be more easy for me to use PostgreSQL.
>
> They are quite different beasties.  ZODB is an object database (based on
> trees of objects), whereas Postgres is relational (based on tables). 
> Using
> ZODB with your own object model is fairly transparent, whereas with any 
> SQL
> database you have to write to and read from tables.  However, there are
> Object-Relation mappers for Python like SQLObject:
>
> http://www.sqlobject.org
>
> ZODB only provides the database "engine", whereas Postgres has both server
> and client components.  ZODB is much easier to set up than Postgres 
> (really,
> you just install ZODB and go; Postgres requires a little more 
> administration
> than that).  ZODB provides no built-in indexing and query ability
> AFAIK, so you may want to install something like IndexedCatalog:
>
> http://www.async.com.br/projects/IndexedCatalog/
>
> Dave Cook 




From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Wed Nov  3 02:59:27 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 07:59:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<x7lldjv2gq.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <loom.20041103T085014-883@post.gmane.org>

Mike Meyer <mwm <at> mired.org> writes:
> 
> First of all, let's mention a truly weakly-typed language. BCPL, one
> of C's predecessors. Variables don't have types, they just hold
> words.

So BCPL had no compile time checking?  If this is true, BCPL is a good example
of a dynamically- and weakly-typed (PL theory definition) language...

> Finally, I don't see that there's that much difference between the two
> different definitions of 'weakly typed'.  Both can be described as
> treating an object as if it were of some type other than what it
> really is. In one case, you abuse the raw bits, and in the other you
> coerce the object to a different type.

Would you then classify BCPL as weakly- or strongly-typed?  It seems like you
might call it "strongly-typed" since every variable just holds words, so every
use of a variable is thus just the use of a word, thus you would never be
"treating an object as if it were of some type other than what it really is".

Steve



From vashwath at rediffmail.com  Mon Nov 22 16:43:08 2004
From: vashwath at rediffmail.com (prashna)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 13:43:08 -0800
Subject: PyTables:Installing hdf5
References: <37ee60c8.0411120648.3a2ad4c6@posting.google.com>
	<cn2ml8$des$1@news.tudelft.nl>
Message-ID: <d40d7104.0411221343.4fd1627d@posting.google.com>

Hi Maarten,
I am completely new to VC++ environment and trying to learn HDF5
format.
I copied the entire directory from
ftp://ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu/HDF/HDF5/current/bin/windows/ and also
ftp://ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu/HDF/lib-external/zlib/and
ftp://ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu/HDF/lib-external/szip/
I have followed all the steps that was explained in COMPILE.txt for
static libraries.But still, I am getting  the following error...

Linking...
LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot open file "libm.lib"
Error executing link.exe.

Please let me know what else I have to do...

The steps I followed(copy-pasted from COMPILE.txt)

   Bring up your Intel C++ or Fortran compiler under the Visual Studio
   6.0 development environment.

   Select File->New.  Then select to create a "Win32 Console
Application"
   and enter a name.

   Select File->Open, and open up a C/C++/F90 program.

   Select Project->Settings->Link
   Enter the HDF5, ZLIB, and SZIP libraries at the beginning of the 
     "Object/library modules". These are the libraries:
        hdf5.lib            - HDF5 C Library   
        hdf5_cpp.lib        - HDF5 C++ Library        (optional)
        hdf5_fortran.lib    - HDF5 Fortran Library    (optional) 
        zlib.lib szlib.lib  - ZLIB and SZIP Libraries

   Select Tools->Options->Directories.
   Select "Include Files" under "Show directories for".
   Enter the paths for the HDF5, szip, and zlib include files.
   Then select "Library Files" under "Show directories for".
   Enter the paths for the HDF5, szip, and zlib libraries.

   Select Build->Compile <program>. (C, C++, F90 program)
   Select Build->Build <xxx.exe>.
   Select Build->Execute <xxx.exe>.

Thanks


From djc at object-craft.com.au  Sun Nov 28 19:09:03 2004
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 11:09:03 +1100
Subject: passing a socket to a spawned process.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6807.1101474766.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <5d00592f.0410110923.2bb2b1ea@posting.google.com>	<mailman.4842.1097673119.5135.python-list@python.org>	<fa2c4bf8.0410280000.6d937d6e@posting.google.com>	<200410291908.27473.arekm@pld-linux.org>
	<mailman.6807.1101474766.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dPtqd.2379$ob1.46912@nasal.pacific.net.au>

Martin C.Atkins wrote:
> I have (finally!) put a package up on our website that provides a
> Python module for sending file descriptors down Unix-domain sockets, on Linux.
> 
> See the first item under:
> 	http://www.mca-ltd.com/index.php?PAGE=resources/home.php
> 
> Please let me know of any problems, obvious omissions, etc...
> 
> BTW: I just found out about bindd (see the README), and could probably
> clean the code up from the examples in its sourcecode, but the current
> version of fdcred works for me! 
> 
> Sorry it has taken so long!

I notice that you have used the LGPL for your code.  Could you be 
convinced to use a Python style license?

This would mean that some time in the (hopefully not too distant) future 
the code could be added to the standard socket module.

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Wed Nov 24 10:53:28 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 07:53:28 -0800
Subject: HTML stylesheet expander?
References: <8idd72-j1o.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<Xns95AB5E981A615duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <rsne72-jh7.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>


"Duncan Booth" <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:Xns95AB5E981A615duncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1...
> to simple cases I would suggest you might be best loading the HTML into a
> browser and manipulating it there to find out what styles everything has.

This is in a program that runs on Windows, Linux and Mac and I am
generating the HTML, and supply the stylesheet.

> If you are using Windows then there is no problem: just drive IE remotely
> through COM and use Python to iterate over the document and pick out the
> runtime style attributes that you are interested in.

My problem is that I want to display the HTML in the HTML widget
supplied with wxPython (which doesn't understand styles).  If I
could use a different widget then that is fine, but at the moment
there are no alternatives (short of me spending many months of
working porting something to wxWidgets).

> If you are not using Windows, or you want portability, then you are
> probably best doing this in Javascript.

How exactly would I do that?  There is no Javascript in Python and if
I had a way of displaying HTML then this is a non-issue.

Have a look at this screenshot:  http://bitpim.org/screenshots/phonebook.jpg

The green backgrounded pane on the right is the wxPython HTML widget and
I use my current hacky scheme to apply styles for the various areas.

Roger 




From fake at not-real.bogus  Tue Nov  2 17:28:14 2004
From: fake at not-real.bogus (Matt Garman)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 22:28:14 GMT
Subject: dynamic or on-the-fly color changing in curses?
References: <mailman.5843.1099432284.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncog2g3.3p5.fake@sewage.raw-sewage.fake>

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 21:51:21 GMT, exarkun at divmod.com <exarkun at divmod.com> wrote:
>  On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 21:43:13 GMT, Matt Garman <fake at not-real.bogus> wrote:
> > So my second thought was to just pre-define every possible
> > combination, but, at least on Linux, I'm limited to 63 unique
> > colors, whereas I can create more than 63 color combinations
> > (foreground, background, and attribute combinations).
>
> There are only 64 combinations (8 of which render the text
> unreadable), so being limited to 63 doesn't seem like that big of
> a drawback to me.

Ehhh, I was under the impression that I needed to use a unique
curses.color_pair for the same color but with different attributes
(e.g. blue on black and bold blue on black require two different
color_pairs).  After a bit more playing, I realized that this is not
the case.

Anyway, thanks for your quick response!

Matt

-- 
Matt Garman
email at: http://raw-sewage.net/index.php?file=email


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Nov 28 09:27:58 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 09:27:58 -0500
Subject: deleting os files
In-Reply-To: <faf2d781.0411280500.5a71fd2d@posting.google.com>
References: <faf2d781.0411280500.5a71fd2d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cocn8g$m0g$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

John Aherne wrote:
...
> Unfortunately, when it comes to delete, I get a permission error. And
> yes, when I run the program and try to delete the file from the
> command prompt, I get a permission error.

Usually posting actual tracebacks, or the actual error messages
from your console, is a very good idea.  One man's permission
error might be another's missing file, to paraphrase an old
aphorism.

> As far as I can tell, I assume the file is being kept open in the
> DictReader call. But I can't work out how I can close the file -
> .close comand also returns an error. I was assuming that on the return
> from the call the file would be closed - mistakenly I now think.

I don't believe csv Readers ever touch the file other than to read
from it.  But they do cache a reference to it, meaning that the
automatic closure which you've perhaps become used to from other
uses of files is no longer happening.  Deleting the Reader itself
might work, but it's not the "best" solution.

> The sample code is below. Not much to it. If I comment out the close
> and delete lines (not shown here) then the program happily carries on
> processing the same files over and over. Not what I want.

Unfortunately, without those lines, and without some idea of where
"csv_file" is being created/opened, the code isn't much help.

Please either post a more useful sample, or experiment with this:
maintain a reference to the csv_file object (I guess you have it
right there, but since I can't see where you opened that object
I don't know for sure what it actually is), and after you are
done reading from it, preferably in the "finally" stanza of a
try/finally block, do a csv_file.close().  This "should" work,
but without seeing more of your code it's really only a guess
on my part.

-Peter


From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Nov 19 04:39:08 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:39:08 +0100
Subject: activating history in Python 2.3.4
In-Reply-To: <cnkd0b$25i72$1@claire.desy.de>
References: <cnkd0b$25i72$1@claire.desy.de>
Message-ID: <20041119093908.GA648@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Fri, Nov 19, 2004 at 10:03:47AM +0100, Riko Wichmann wrote:
> [Python compiled from source does not have readline support]

Make sure that the readline development headers and libraries are
installed on your system.

On Debian Linux, for example they're called libreadline4-dev. On
RPM-based Linux distributions, they're called libreadline-devel or
similarly.

-- Gerhard
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From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov 19 12:37:16 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:37:16 +0100
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.4, release candidate 1
In-Reply-To: <du76542cm3t.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
References: <mailman.6581.1100848625.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du76542cm3t.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <419E2F4C.2010702@v.loewis.de>

Ville Vainio wrote:
> The picture in the MSI installer looks quite weird (clunky /
> pixelated, with awkward colours). This happens with win2k/1280x1024x32
> at least. 

You have only 32 colours on your screen??? I would not complain about
awkward colours, then - 256 colors are a fairly common minimum
requirement these days (not that the installer necessarily looks good
in that resolution).

I don't know what to do about the pixelation (I don't see any on my
machine - atleast not any worse than I think it should be). The only
option would be to leave the image out entirely.

Regards,
Martin


From hongqn at gmail.com  Fri Nov 12 04:12:05 2004
From: hongqn at gmail.com (Qiangning Hong)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:12:05 +0800
Subject: long-run repeatly timer?
Message-ID: <cn1uum$ss9$1@sea.gmane.org>

I asked this question on comp.python.wxpython using the subject "a 
wx.Timer like timer without wx package?" and David Fraser there 
suggested me to ask here for a more general solution.

I am implementing a long-run sample-and-record system.  It collects data 
from a PCI card every 10 seconds, saves the data (timestamped with the 
current system time) in the hard disk, and shows them on the screen. 
There is also a GPS receiver module exists on the system, which correct 
the system time (and the hardware time) when it drifts away too much, 
however, I can not access the source code of this module.

The system requires the average sample rate is 6 times per minute to 
analysis.  If the OS clock runs too fast or too slow, we can get the 
infomation by the GPS module's log file, and then correct the analysised 
result with that infomation.

So, wo need the counter (a repeatly timer for collecting data) to meet 
these requirements:

1. fires 6 times per minute, or to say, fires 60*24*360 times per 60 days.
2. will not be affected by the change of system time, foreward or backward.
3. no need for external hardware device, of cource.
4. not depend on any GUI package for it's a console based app.
5. works on a Windows mechine, cross-platform solution is better.

How can I implement such a timer?  Thanks in advance.



From alexs at advfn.com  Wed Nov 24 11:31:56 2004
From: alexs at advfn.com (Alex Stapleton)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:31:56 +0000
Subject: XUL Parser?
Message-ID: <41A4B77C.3010703@advfn.com>

Is there a Python XUL parser which will create GUIs in a Mozilla like 
fashion for me? I've had a poke around but the closest I could find was 
Luxor, and thats Jython bound (which isn't feasible.)

If not is anyone interested in helping design and implment one? I'm 
rather keen on seeing a python XUL module which supports multiple widget 
systems (wxPython, Qt , GTK+ etc)


From andy at reportlab.com  Tue Nov 30 11:24:52 2004
From: andy at reportlab.com (Andy Robinson)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:24:52 -0000
Subject: ANN: ReportLab Toolkit - Release 1.20
Message-ID: <OFEEIFGBPBMAIHKGNAJKMEELCEAA.andy@reportlab.com>

At long last, I can annouce that Release 1.20 of the
ReportLab Toolkit is out. 

The ReportLab Toolkit is a mature, full-featured library
for generating PDF documents and data graphics.  This release
offers a number of minor formatting improvements ad new
features, especially within tables.  Full details are here:

     http://www.reportlab.org/relnotes.html

Best Regards,


Andy Robinson
CEO/Chief Architect
ReportLab Europe Ltd
tel +44-20-8544-8049 


From philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net  Sun Nov 21 11:57:00 2004
From: philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:57:00 -0600
Subject: Detecting memory leaks
Message-ID: <200411211057.00400.philippecmartin@sbcglobal.net>

> The short form of the question is, how can I trace memory usage
> (preferably from C) with an eye toward finding out if I'm leaking memory?

Hi,

Can't your OS allow you to check the heap/stack space - ex: have a thread look 
at the pointers on a regular basis ?

Regards,

Philippe


From ofnap at nus.edu.sg  Fri Nov 12 21:19:55 2004
From: ofnap at nus.edu.sg (Ajith Prasad)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 18:19:55 -0800
Subject: PyTables:Installing hdf5
References: <37ee60c8.0411120648.3a2ad4c6@posting.google.com>
	<cn2ml8$des$1@news.tudelft.nl>
Message-ID: <37ee60c8.0411121819.6bca85b@posting.google.com>

Thanks, Maareten. It certainly looks a formidable undertaking for a
non-programmer! I hope there will be a fully compiled version that
could be installed using a typical Windows installer.

Maarten van Reeuwijk <maarten at remove_this_ws.tn.tudelft.nl> wrote in message news:<cn2ml8$des$1 at news.tudelft.nl>...
> Ajith Prasad wrote:
> 
> > I am trying to install the WinXP version of PyTables which requires
> > hdf5 (from http://hdf.ncsa.uiuc.edu/HDF5/) as a pre-requisite.
> > However, I am at a loss as to how to install hdf5 - I have downloaded
> > the zipped version of hdf5 and unzipped it using WinZip but get a mass
> > of .exe and other files and have no clue as to how to proceed further.
> > Thanks in advance for any help.
> 
> I assume you downloaded the pre-compiled binary from
> ftp://ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu/HDF/HDF5/current/bin/windows/
> 
> Unpack the zip to a temp-dir and copy all the data inside the
> 5-163-winxp-net directory to say c:\hdf5. Then look in COMPILE.TXT in the
> DLL section to find the following instruction for compiling HDF-enabled
> programs:
> 
> DLLs:
> ----
>    Copy the hdf5dll.dll, hdf5_cppdll.dll, zlib.dll, and szlibdll.dll files 
>    from the location in the HDF5, szip, zlib binary distributions to the 
>    WINNT\SYSTEM directory.
> 
>    Bring up MSVC++ .NET.
> 
>    Select File->New->Projects->"Visual C++ Projects".  Then select 
>     "Managed C++ Empty Project" and enter a name.
>   
>    Select Project->Properties->Linker->Input
>    Enter "hdf5dll.lib hdf5_cppdll.lib zlib.lib szlibdll.lib" at the 
>      beginning of the "Additional Dependencies" line.
> 
>    Select Project->Properties->C/C++->Preprocessor
>    Under Preprocessor Definitions, add:  _HDF5USEDLL_
>    For C++ DLLs, add: HDF5CPP_USEDLL
> 
>    Select Project->Properties->C/C++->Code Generation->Runtime Library, 
>     and choose "multi-threaded DLL"
> 
>    Select Tools->Options->Projects->VC++ Directories.
>    Select "Include Files" under "Show directories for".
>    Enter the paths for the HDF5, szlib and zlib include files.
>    Then select "Library Files" under "Show directories for".
>    Enter the paths for the HDF5, szlib and zlib DLL exported libraries.
> 
>    Select Build->Compile <program>. (C or C++ program)
>    Select Build->Build <xxx.exe>.  
>    Select Build->Execute <xxx.exe>.
> 
> 
> Copying the dll's is essential for installing PyTables, but I don't know how
> the PyTables installer works under Windows.
> 
> HTH, Maarten


From rnd at onego.ru  Thu Nov  4 01:20:17 2004
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:20:17 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: pep 336:  Make None Callable
In-Reply-To: <4189b29c.1567244508@news.oz.net>
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>
	<4189b29c.1567244508@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0411040915280.3606@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Thu, 4 Nov 2004, Bengt Richter wrote:

> On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 20:59:43 -0700, The Eternal Squire <eternalsquire at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >PEP: 336
> >Title: Make None Callable
> >
> >     None should be a callable object that when called with any
> >     arguments has no side effect and returns None.
> >     rather than either (1) checking a method table entry against None

> I'd rather not complicate the meaning of None, I think ;-)
>
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

I completely agree. As a note, I can remind a
PEP 312 -- Simple Implicit Lambda. So with implicit lambda this is just

:None

For example:

do_something(a, visitor1, visitor2, :None, :None)

which roughly translates to:

do_something(a, visitor1, visitor2, lambda:None, lambda:None)

Is it right time to start PEP 312

Anyway, please refer to PEP 312 in PEP 336


Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -



From francisl at aei.ca  Sat Nov 27 12:14:57 2004
From: francisl at aei.ca (Francis Lavoie)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:14:57 -0500
Subject: [web_framework] Basic Question regarding web framework
Message-ID: <41A8B611.7000304@aei.ca>

Hello

I have some questions regarding webframework, I must say that I quite 
lost and these questions are basicly to help me understand the way it work.

I have some knowledge with PHP and JSP.

I have looked for a python web framework to build a web site, a site 
that I had start in php (and quite finish), but for some reason I wont 
explain, I lost everything. I have started writting app with python 6 
months ago and I fall in love with the language (if I can say that ;-)
Now I'm looking to rebuild that site again, but I would prefer to use 
python instead. For learning purpose and because I chose python as my 
language of choice to write apps, that way I would extend my knowledge 
to other project.

Firstly, I have question regarding the way it work. I see that there's a 
bunch of web framework, zope, webware, Skunkweb, etc...
But on the webware website I see that they want to port the framework to 
web-SIG. I read both site but I'm still not sure how it work.
What are exactly all these framework? are they all different version of 
framework that use python as synthax but work diffenrently, like if 
there where different version of php only using similar synthax?
Or is it the Web-SIG that dictate the 'language' and all these framework 
are what tomcat is for JSP?

 Secondly, I would like to receive any advice on which webframe is best.
I will build a website with an online store and it should be quite busy.
Is webware is a good choice?
Can I use ZODB outside ZOPE? and is this database is appropriate for 
large amount of treatement or should I stick with another database?
Because I had very good feedback on how powerful and easy ZODB was and 
it's object oriented data manipulation.

Thank you

Francis Lavoie



From mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net  Fri Nov 12 19:05:28 2004
From: mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net (Jean Brouwers)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 00:05:28 GMT
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<slrncp8tqi.c7p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6310.1100281534.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <121120041606297367%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>


Fernando,

Just curious, does 'gtk/WX' in your message below mean wxPython?

If so, does this signal handling code actually work with wxPython?

/Jean Brouwers


In article <mailman.6310.1100281534.5135.python-list at python.org>,
Fernando Perez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Antoon Pardon wrote:
> 
> > Op 2004-11-09, Antoon Pardon schreef <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be>:
> >> I have had a look at the signal module and the example
> >> and came to the conclusion that the example wont work
> >> if you try to do this in a thread.
> >>
> >> So is there a chance similar code will work in a thread?
> > 
> > 
> > Well I guess that the lack of response means the anser is:
> > 
> >   Not likely.
> 
> Sorry that I don't have time to go through the code you mention, but recently
> for ipython I had to deal with signal handling in threads.  You can look in
> IPython's Shell.py for the hacks I ended up using, if you care.
> 
> The gist of it is this function, which gets installed into a gtk/WX timer:
> 
>     def runcode(self):
>         """Execute a code object.
> 
>         Multithreaded wrapper around IPython's runcode()."""
> 
>         # lock thread-protected stuff
>         self.ready.acquire()
> 
>         # Install sigint handler
>         signal.signal(signal.SIGINT, sigint_handler)
> 
>         if self._kill:
>             print >>Term.cout, 'Closing threads...',
>             Term.cout.flush()
>             for tokill in self.on_kill:
>                 tokill()
>             print >>Term.cout, 'Done.'
> 
>         # Run pending code by calling parent class
>         if self.code_to_run is not None:
>             self.ready.notify()
>             self.parent_runcode(self.code_to_run)
>             # Flush out code object which has been run
>             self.code_to_run = None
> 
>         # We're done with thread-protected variables
>         self.ready.release()
>         # This MUST return true for gtk threading to work
>         return True
> 
> As you see, I ended up installing the handler on *every* invocation of the
> function, after taking a lock.  I couldn't find how to assign the handler to
> the thread, so this was my brute-force approach.
> 
> This is incredibly ugly, and there may be a better solution.  But in this
> particular case, the hack works and the penalty is not noticeable to end users.
> 
> Best,
> 
> f
>


From mwm at mired.org  Mon Nov  8 00:09:38 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 23:09:38 -0600
Subject: executing python code
References: <cmgvvd$chn$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<cmh1t7$d9p$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<418c0e56_1@omega.dimensional.com> <x7y8hfr9wu.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<cmmfah$2gg$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <x7zn1torjh.fsf@guru.mired.org>

ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong) writes:

> According to Mike Meyer  <mwm at mired.org>:
>> I find that symlinking ~/src/python/mycode.py to ~/bin/mycode means I
>> get to invoke it without having to specify the extension, and don't
>> have to reinstall the file if I change it.
>
> I find that I hardlink them. I'm also more likely to edit ~/bin/mycode than
> ~/src/mycode.py.

I keep the src in CVS, so I want to edit it. Given that, hardlinks
have a tendency to be pointing at the wrong thing.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From dr_burrito at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  2 20:31:43 2004
From: dr_burrito at yahoo.com (Fazan)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 17:31:43 -0800
Subject: problem querying WMI in a background thread
References: <mailman.5801.1099385489.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <37f621d3.0411021731.2c2bb50a@posting.google.com>

Indeed, calling pythoncom.CoInitialize() before instantiating WMI
seems to do the trick.  Thanks!

Tim Golden <tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk> wrote in message news:<mailman.5801.1099385489.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> [dr_burrito at yahoo.com]
> | I'm using Tim Golden's WMI implementation
> | (http://tgolden.sc.sabren.com/python/wmi.html) version 0.6 along with
> | pywin32 build 202.  I'm able to successfully query WMI in the main
> | thread but not in a separate thread.
> | 
> | Here's a little snippet of sample code that fails for me:
> 
> [... snip example ...]
> 
> Well, I'm going to be mildly unhelpful, and say that I
> don't strictly understand why your code doesn't work.
> The thing which usually bites when using WMI and threads
> is the CoInitialize trap, but it usually comes out as
> an explicit "Must call CoInitialize" exception rather
> than as a random COM error. At the end of the day, the
> plumbing in WMI is just COM/DCOM so most things comes
> down to issues of COM and threading.
> 
> But, to me more helpful, the example below does work,
> so maybe you can work backwards from it.
> 
> <code>
> import pythoncom
> import wmi
> import threading
> 
> class Info (threading.Thread):
>   def __init__ (self):
>     threading.Thread.__init__ (self)
> 
>   def run (self):
>     print 'In Another Thread...'
>     pythoncom.CoInitialize ()
>     c = wmi.WMI ()
>     while 1:
>       for process in c.Win32_Process ():
>         print process.ProcessId, process.Name
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>   print 'In Main Thread'
>   c = wmi.WMI ()
>   for process in c.Win32_Process ():
>     print process.ProcessId, process.Name
>   Info ().start ()
> </code>
> 
> TJG
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
> service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
> anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
> http://www.star.net.uk
> ________________________________________________________________________


From timh at zute.net  Wed Nov 17 03:46:01 2004
From: timh at zute.net (Tim Hoffman)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:46:01 +0800
Subject: determining the number of output arguments
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <419b0fc9$1@news.highway1.com.au>

Jeremy Bowers wrote:
> Now that I think of
> it, *tuple* returns are a code smell. (Remember, "code smells" are strong
> hints of badness, not proof.) Of the easily thousands of functions in
> Python I've written, less than 10 have returned a tuple that was expected
> to be unpacked. 
> 

Hmm have ever used PIL.

Lots of returns are tuples (admittedly not variable length)

things like size are an example. (100,200) or

w,h = object.size()    #  Actually it might be a property but really I 

                        #don't see a big difference.

IMHO this doesn't warrant being wrapped in a class.

and is much better than

h = object.height()
w = object.width()

Rgds

Tim


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Thu Nov 18 10:35:17 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:35:17 +0100
Subject: regex-strategy for finding *similar* words?
References: <1100774319.18258.249.camel@bucket.localnet>
	<mailman.6541.1100780393.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.18.15.35.16.503479@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:20:08 +0100 schrieb Christoph Pingel:

> Hi all,
> 
> an interesting problem for regex nerds.
> I've got a thesaurus of some hundred words and a moderately large 
> dataset of about 1 million words in some thousand small texts. Words 
> from the thesaurus appear at many places in my texts, but they are 
> often misspelled, just slightly different from the thesaurus.

Hi,

You can write a method which takes a single word, 
and returns a normalized version.

normalize("...ies") --> "...y"

normalize("running") --> "run"

Build a big dictionary which maps each word
to a list of files where they occur. Only
add normalized words to the dictionary (or database).

bigdict={"foo": ["file1.txt", "file2.txt", ...]}

HTH,
 Thomas




From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov 19 16:28:50 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:28:50 +0100
Subject: Python-2.3.4 on OSF1 V4.0?
In-Reply-To: <9fbcd7cf.0411191154.453fb8ff@posting.google.com>
References: <9fbcd7cf.0411191154.453fb8ff@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <419e6590$0$562$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Edmond Rusjan wrote:
> With a plain "./configure; make" build, I cannot import socket.
> If I uncomment the socketmodule in Modules/Setup, the build fails.
> Using gcc 3.4.2. Had no problem on OSF1 V5.1, Linux and Sun.
> Have not been able to find reference to a similar problem in
> comp.lang.python.
[...]
> gcc -pthread   -o python \
>                 Modules/python.o \
>                 libpython2.3.a -lrt    -lm 
> _Esetsockopt
> _Egetsockopt
> _Erecv
> _Esend
> _Esendto
> _Econnect
> _Ebind

As a starting point, you need to find out what library you need to
link in to provide these symbols. Strategies to find that out are
1. setsockopt(2)
2. nm /usr/lib/*.a|grep setsockopt
3. try -lsocket

Regards,
Martin


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Nov  4 17:23:13 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 14:23:13 -0800
Subject: dijkstra algorithm by object oriented
In-Reply-To: <LOEJJKEIICMBHEHNCGNEKECGCBAA.batista.ric@iol.pt>
References: <LOEJJKEIICMBHEHNCGNEKECGCBAA.batista.ric@iol.pt>
Message-ID: <20041104102844.F818.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


"Ricardo Batista" <batista.ric at iol.pt> wrote:
> 
> Ok. you are right.
> 
> I don't express my self in a rigth way.
> 
> I just want an idea to begin my work.
> 
> For example, how many classes do i implement.
> 
> I have an idea to create three classes, class Graph, class Vertex, class
> edge.
> But i don't know if i'm going in the rigth way.
> 
> This is the help i need.

You don't need to use object orientation to implement the algorithm.  If
it works, there is no problem.  If you want to make it faster, you
should look into a variant that uses a heap.

 - Josiah



From mnations at gmail.com  Mon Nov 22 22:39:02 2004
From: mnations at gmail.com (Mudcat)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 19:39:02 -0800
Subject: Changing the color of default frame border
In-Reply-To: <cnu394$lls$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
References: <1101170615.382927.136240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<cnu394$lls$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <1101181142.223463.22240@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Oh yeah. I guess that would help a little. You use something all the
time and just assume everone else does also.
I'm using Tkinter on Windows 2000 with Python 2.3. 

Thanks



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Nov 18 23:35:58 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 20:35:58 -0800
Subject: Class Encapsulation Errors in Python 2.3.3
In-Reply-To: <47f7cc78.0411182007.1b77c2b1@posting.google.com>
References: <47f7cc78.0411182007.1b77c2b1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10pqtqbjncp2nfb@corp.supernews.com>

Tim Henderson wrote:

>Hi i have some errors in my code that i can't find the reason for here
>is the error
>[...]
>the "hey" album has "song 1" as it is suppose to however so does
>"yeayea" even though when "song 1" was put in the album "hey" 'yeayea'
>didn't even exist yet.
>  
>

I can think of two likely reasons offhand.

The first is that you're storing the songlist as a class attribute, 
rather than as an instance attribute.  The second is that you're using a 
mutable default value in a method call.  (I'm guessing that it's 
probably this second reason.)

Do you have something like this?

class Album:
    def __init__(self, songs=[]):
        self.songs = songs
        # ...

The problem here is that default values in functions/methods are 
evaluated at *compile* time.  That means that this creates a single 
empty list, which is used as the default value for *every* Album 
instance.  When you mutate that list, then every instance with a 
reference to that list shows the changes.

The other possibility (class attribute rather than instance attribute) 
would happen if you have something like this:

class Album:
    songs = []
    def __init__(self, ...):
        # ...

In this case, again, you have a single empty list that will end up being 
shared by all Album instances.

What you probably want to do in this case is this:

class Album:
    def __init__(self, songs=None)
        if songs is None:
            songs = []
        self.songs = songs
        # ...

This will allow you to have an optional songs parameter in the 
initializer, but still ensure that every instance gets an independent 
empty list if nothing's passed in.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From belred1 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 23 22:57:19 2004
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 03:57:19 GMT
Subject: Python Tutorials, about 100 and sorted by Topic or Category
In-Reply-To: <4g06q0t7dim3c8r37202jasut5ufafmgof@4ax.com>
References: <a5415304.0411201216.7cbfdddd@posting.google.com>
	<4g06q0t7dim3c8r37202jasut5ufafmgof@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <zETod.77976$V41.73385@attbi_s52>

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
> On 20 Nov 2004 12:16:23 -0800, rumours say that rstephens at vectron.com
> (Ron Stephens) might have written:
> 
> 
>>http://www.awaretek.com/tutorials.html
> 
> 
> Great job, Ron :)

yes... great job!  this is so much better than what you had before.  keep up the 
great work.

bryan


From dhwild at argonet.co.uk  Sat Nov 13 14:57:11 2004
From: dhwild at argonet.co.uk (David H Wild)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 19:57:11 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: permuting letters and fairy tales
References: <67lld8kr76.fsf@aster.homelinux.net>
	<60dfb6f6.0411121732.2e0ac82c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4d0d59af08dhwild@argonet.co.uk>

In article <60dfb6f6.0411121732.2e0ac82c at posting.google.com>,
   Carl Banks <imbosol at aerojockey.com> wrote:
> My thought is that, the brain doesn't read the word as a whole as they
> claim, but neither does it pay too much attention to the _exact_
> ordering.  So you could scramble the letters a little, and it will
> still be recognizable; but scramble them a lot, and you will have
> trouble.

In many cases, of course, we pick up what the word is from the context. If
I were to write "He was very tired, so he went to bad before nine o clock"
it is quite likely that the spelling mistake wouldn't be noticed - or that
people would read the sense and then think "there's something wrong there".
If the text had a dirty mark covering the letter between 'b' and 'd' most
people would see it as "bed" without missing a beat.

-- 
 __  __  __  __      __ ___   _____________________________________________
|__||__)/ __/  \|\ ||_   |   / Acorn StrongArm Risc_PC
|  ||  \\__/\__/| \||__  |  /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines
___________________________/ dhwild at argonet.co.uk


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Fri Nov 26 18:37:33 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 21:37:33 -0200
Subject: Automatic reformatting of triple-quoted strings (was Re: Few things)
In-Reply-To: <5c882bb5.0411251641.6177ee9d@posting.google.com>
References: <5c882bb5.0411251641.6177ee9d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041126153723f1ee9a@mail.gmail.com>

On 25 Nov 2004 16:41:00 -0800, bearophile <bearophilehugs at lycos.com> wrote:
> I think a better syntax for such multiline strings can be something
> like: remove from all the beginnings of the lines successive to the
> first one a number of spaces equal to the position of ''' in the
> soucecode.

I was thinking exactly about this earlier today. There is a utility
function described somewhere in the docutils documentation that does
that. I've borrowed that code and called it "stripindent". It handles
all stuff that you mentioned and also tabs & space conversion. I
already call it almost everywhere I use the triple-quote strings.

The end result is that my code is full of constructs of the form:

    sqlquery = stripindent("""
        select column1, column2
        from sometable
        where column1 > blahblahblah
        """)

And I thought, "wouldn't it be nice if Python automatically
reformatted such strings"? Of course, this is not a change to be taken
lightly. Some pros and cons:

0) it automatically supports what is already done by tools such as
pydoc, coctools, doctest, and every Python-enabled IDE that gets
information from docstrings.

1) the source code reads much better; the intention of the writer in
the case above is clearly *not* to have all those extra spaces
clutering the string contents.

2) It encourages use of triple-quoted strings in real code (by making
it more practical) and avoids idioms such as:

s = stripindent("""...
    """)
s = "abcdef..." +
    "rstuvwxyz..."
s = "abcdef..." \
    "rstuvwxyz..."

3) it uses indentation to change the string parsing behavior.
Indentation already has meaning in Python, but not in this situation.

4) It's a change, and people are usually afraid of changes, specially
in this case where it may look like there are so little to gain from
it.

5) it may break old code that uses triple-quoted strings, and that may
require the extra spaces at the beginning of each line.

6) it may lead to surprised in some cases (specially for Python old-timers).


At this point, this is not still a serious proposal, but more like a
"Call for Comments". I have another bunch of ideas being worked out
for possibly future PEPs ("iunpack" & named tuples), so why not give
this one a try?

The idea is as follows:

1) triple-quote strings will automatically be reformatted to remove
any extra space on the left side due to indentation. The indentation
will be controled by the position of the leftmost non-space character
in the string.

2) raw triple-quoted strings will *NOT* be reformatted. Any space to
the left side is deemed to be significant.

This is indeed a quite simple idea, with the potential to simplify
some code. It will also encourage people to write triple-quoted
strings for long strings, which is something that people usually do to
avoid the extra space.


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From bradtilley at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 16:46:43 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:46:43 -0500
Subject: module imports and memory usage
In-Reply-To: <coi223$ahu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <coi223$ahu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <coipo3$gno$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Brad Tilley wrote:
> When memory usage is a concern, is it better to do:
> 
> from X import Y
> 
> or
> 
> import X
> 
> Also, is there a way to load and unload modules as they are needed. I 
> have some scripts that sleep for extended periods during a while loop 
> and I need to be as memory friendly as possible. I can post a detailed 
> script that currently uses ~ 10MB of memory if anyone is interested.
> 
> Thanks,
> Brad

I discovered that when I wrap my code up in a function def and call it 
that it uses around 4.6 MB of RAM all the time... even while sleeping. 
However, when I don't put it in a function def it uses around 2.6MB of 
data when it executes and only 100KB while sleeping. Why is this?


From jerf at jerf.org  Mon Nov 29 01:12:16 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 01:12:16 -0500
Subject: The use of :
References: <89cc6e1f.0411251858.40b6bbc7@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.26.08.33.40.219098@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<89cc6e1f.0411260953.4b6b98e7@posting.google.com>
	<zyUpd.6$d74.2@read3.inet.fi>
	<41aa1abb$0$25542$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<30ukhmF357ptdU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<Avpqd.55491$Ni.1918466@twister1.libero.it>
	<pan.2004.11.29.05.11.43.180223@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6859.1101676234.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.29.06.12.15.87220@jerf.org>

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 22:10:31 +0100, BJ?rn Lindqvist wrote:
> I always thought the rule was "the less useless symbols, the higher the
> readability." I.e:

There's a bit of circularity there, in that a symbol's use can *be* to
enhance readability. I'd certainly agree that instances where this holds
true is an exception rather than the rule, but it seems plausible to me
that Python is symbol-free enough for this to be a potential
justification.

The only punctuation you *need* is whitespace. See Forth (I don't know
if this is perfect but I'd bet the transform is simple), the HP RPN
calculator programming languages (IIRC, the only other punctuation is a
block delimiter, which would also be easy to transform away), or some
hacks I've cooked up for my own use where I minimized the token count
because I had to write the parser by hand and I was willing to trade a
little extra work to write the parsed stuff for an easier translation.
(Usually it is data, not programs, so while saying that's a "compilation"
is technically true it isn't what most people think of.) Take it to those
extremes and you'd see what I mean; extra symbols can help.

(Or, God help you, see the whitespace language for a demonstration that
all you need is whitespace, period. 

http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/ )


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Wed Nov 10 14:19:26 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:19:26 -0500
Subject: get element text in DOM?
In-Reply-To: <1100113869.1638.9.camel@swdb>
References: <1100113869.1638.9.camel@swdb>
Message-ID: <419269BE.6040903@bellsouth.net>

Juliano Freitas wrote:

>How can i get the text between the <teste> tags??
>
>  
>
>>>>xml = """<root><teste> texto </teste></root>"""
>>>>from xml.dom import minidom
>>>>document = minidom.parseString(xml)
>>>>document
>>>>        
>>>>
><xml.dom.minidom.Document instance at 0x4181df0c>
>  
>
>>>>minidom.getElementsByTagName('teste')
>>>>        
>>>>
>
>  
>
>>>>element = document.getElementsByTagName('teste')
>>>>element
>>>>        
>>>>
>[<DOM Element: teste at 0x418e110c>]
>  
>
>>>>element[0].nodeType
>>>>        
>>>>
>1
>
>Juliano Freitas
>
>
>  
>
How about something like this:



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From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Tue Nov  2 16:48:23 2004
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe Cavalaria)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 22:48:23 +0100
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Steven Bethard wrote:

> Totally clear now, thanks.  Basically you would say that the more implicit
> coercions a language performs, the more weakly typed it is.  This diverges
> from the common use of the terms strong and weak typing in the PL
> literature, which is why I was confused.

One could say that the common definition of weakly typed languages cannont
apply for a dynamicaly type language. Let's face it, once you've
implemented a dynamicaly typed language, it seems very hard to use one
piece of data as the wrong type. What we can do is extend the definition of
weakly typed language to something like : "A weakly typed language is a
language that often uses incorectly some piece of data by applying to it
the wrong type" Such definition would include any language that is too
liberal with the type coertion like php.



From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Fri Nov 12 20:45:52 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 17:45:52 -0800
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<60dfb6f6.0411050715.601f381f@posting.google.com>
	<2v82u3F2dhtcpU1@uni-berlin.de> <cmoqn9$cbf$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<10p1ud2juqlkb7c@corp.supernews.com>
	<60dfb6f6.0411101037.5cd6a17d@posting.google.com>
	<10p52ccen1ql956@corp.supernews.com>
	<60dfb6f6.0411102119.2091c0d@posting.google.com>
	<1gn4za8.1sdorbl11cqco5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <60dfb6f6.0411121745.21952302@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1gn4za8.1sdorbl11cqco5N%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> Carl Banks <imbosol at aerojockey.com> wrote:
> 
> > My criteria is not whether the meaning is literal or figurative, but
> > whether it's specific.  Solid is; rigid isn't.
> 
> Hmmmm... I like to bank with a solid bank --> they won't go bankrupt
> tomorrow.  Hopefully they're not rigid --> can accomodate to changing
> circumstances.  And the bank's officers have years of solid experience
> at their jobs, and deserve my solid trust...

Heh.  I can see how solid in the sense of solid bank could apply to a
typing system, as an overall description of how robust it is (but not
indicative of any dimension of typing in particular, although you
could of course say that particular dimension is solid).  Python has
an overall solid typing system.

I don't see how solid in the sense of solid experience (i.e.,
uninterrupted) would apply to any aspect of typing very well, any more
than solid as in solid wood (not hollow) would.

I still think, in the end, rigid is more vague for this use.  Good
example, though.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au  Wed Nov 10 19:27:18 2004
From: sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au (Sam Holden)
Date: 11 Nov 2004 00:27:18 GMT
Subject: distutils and Debian
References: <4192AD69.5040707@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <slrncp5cf6.v8.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:08:09 -0500, Colin J. Williams <cjw at sympatico.ca> wrote:
> The distutils download page has:
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Current stable release
>
> The current stable release is Distutils 1.0.2; you can download it as:
>
>      * Distutils-1.0.2.tar.gz (source distribution) (233k)
>      * Distutils-1.0.2.zip (source distribution) (274k)
>      * Distutils-1.0.2.win32.exe (Windows installer) (187k)
>
> If you are running Python version 1.6 or later, you do not need to 
> download the Distutils: they're included with Python. However, if you 
> have a Distutils more recent than your Python, you might want to install 
> it: see the Distutils README.txt file. Version 1.0.2 is identical to the 
> version included in Python 2.1.
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> With Debian, it seems that distutils is not included for
> Python 2.2 or 2.3.
>
> Should this be reported as a Debian bug?

No.

It's in the python2.x-dev packages.

Debian often split large things up into smaller packages, distutils
isn't needed by the basic debian user who only installs debian
packages after all. 

"apt-cache search distutils" finds it easily enough for those who do
want it.

-- 
Sam Holden


From mksql at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  2 15:54:21 2004
From: mksql at yahoo.com (Max)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 12:54:21 -0800
Subject: Send HTML e-mail in Python?
Message-ID: <c90c3203.0411021254.74b10c06@posting.google.com>

I am looking for some simple example code on generating SMTP e-mail
messages in Python. I have a script that sends system reports to me at
a central e-mail address, and it works fine using smtplib with plain
text messages. I would like to enhance this script to send HTML
formatted messages instead.

Simply sending a text message with HTML tags does not work. The e-mail
client displays the message as plain text with visible <tags>.


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Nov 18 15:48:13 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:48:13 -0500
Subject: Need function to test if EFFECTIVE UID has read-access to a
	file.
In-Reply-To: <x7pt2bkkiz.fsf@guru.mired.org>
References: <9b96ed1.0411170915.2b88da0e@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6498.1100715267.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<9b96ed1.0411180820.21447337@posting.google.com>
	<x7pt2bkkiz.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <cnj1t9$fss$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Mike Meyer wrote:
> NutJob at gmx.net (Markus Kemp) writes:
>>Ow, is that the only way? =( Because as I see it, open() is a
>>relatively costly function compared to something like os.access()
> 
> Yeah. you can improve on this by using os.open. That way you won't
> have the overhead of creating a Python file object.
> 
> However, both access and open will have to read status information
> from the disk to do their job. The I/O involved should swamp any
> difference in computation between the two.
> 
> Of course, the right thing to do is time them.

Actually, the right thing to do is to take the simplest
and cleanest approach, and only change that if you have
hard proof that this approach is unacceptably slow or
heavy on the resources.

It seems likely that it will not be, in this case, so
just doing the file open() is almost certainly the best
thing, not to mention that it saves you all that time
doing measurements and worrying about it all...

-Peter


From deepak.sarda at gmail.com  Mon Nov  8 02:12:20 2004
From: deepak.sarda at gmail.com (Deepak Sarda)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 15:12:20 +0800
Subject: checking a thread has started
In-Reply-To: <418f0f8e$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
References: <mailman.6001.1099749512.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<qliv52-mlq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<418d3323$1_2@omega.dimensional.com>
	<mailman.6030.1099794009.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418da3e0$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
	<mailman.6101.1099891397.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418f0f8e$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <eaac783a04110723126a8fd8af@mail.gmail.com>

On 7 Nov 2004 23:17:50 -0700, Michael Fuhr <mfuhr at fuhr.org> wrote:
> What do you get when you run the following script from the shell
> and then as a CGI program?
> 
> #!/bin/sh
> echo "Content-Type: text/plain"
> echo ""
> ulimit -a

This is the output as a cgi program:

core file size            (blocks, -c) 0
data seg size           (kbytes, -d) unlimited
file size                    (blocks, -f) unlimited
max locked memory     (kbytes, -l) unlimited
max memory size       (kbytes, -m) unlimited
open files                    (-n) 1024
pipe size            (512 bytes, -p) 8
stack size            (kbytes, -s) 262144
cpu time             (seconds, -t) unlimited
max user processes            (-u) 7168
virtual memory        (kbytes, -v) unlimited


The only difference is that when run from the shell, the stack size is
also unlimited

Deepak

-- 

Online: http://www.antrix.net/journal/


From craig at postnewspapers.com.au  Mon Nov 29 10:34:13 2004
From: craig at postnewspapers.com.au (Craig Ringer)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 23:34:13 +0800
Subject: Protecting Python source
In-Reply-To: <coesrc$24i$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <f4a45085.0411260701.5859bf43@posting.google.com>
	<lnSpd.18976$Km6.232360@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<coesrc$24i$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <1101742453.7706.126.camel@albert.localnet>

On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 18:04, Peter Maas wrote:

> I can think of 3 reasons to prevent tampering:
> 
> - You need money and want to sell your software on a "per seat" basis.

If you mean that you therefore must add built-in copy-protection, then
sure. Users will always get around it if they really want to, so
tamper-resistance is probably closer to the truth, but it'll slow them
down.

On the other hand, one can license software per-seat quite effectively
without software enforcement, or with only informative software
enforcement ("By the way, you appear to be over your seat count."). In
many cases this is good enough - the user can always crack / steal your
software, tamper resistant or not (witness: the games industry), and
code without copy protection is a LOT friendly.

For example, my employer currently relies on software that has a dongle.
The software manufacturer has gone out of business, so if that dongle
dies we're in trouble, as development of a replacement is moving slowly.
In future, if we're given the choice between a product that's superior
in price or functionality but has opressive copy protection and one
that's more limited or more expensive, but has no software enforcement
of copy protection, we'll buy the inferior or overpriced one.

We're quite capable of monitoring our own license compliance. Those who
aren't are also generally quite capable of 'fixing' the software, tamper
resistant or not, so I really don't see the point.

> - You don't want customers to fiddle with your code and then innocently
>    call for support and demand "bug fixes" for free.

There, what you really want is tamper-evident code not tamper-proof
code. That's quite a bit more practical IMO, and may be a good place to
look at digital signing.

> - Your customer demands closed source because the code contains trade
>    secrets.

My understanding is that that's never guaranteed safe, no? Or are
restrictions against reverse engineering now commonly enforcable?

--
Craig Ringer



From sean at buildingonline.com  Mon Nov  8 14:48:22 2004
From: sean at buildingonline.com (Sean Berry)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 11:48:22 -0800
Subject: Determining combination of bits
Message-ID: <x3Qjd.121786$hj.41260@fed1read07>

Say I have a dictionary like the following

{1:'one',2:'two',4:'three',8:'four',16:'five', etc...}

and I am given some numbers, say 22, 25, and 9.  I want to determine the 
keys, powers of 2, that comprise the number.

Ex.  22 = 16+4+2
       25 = 16+8+1
       9   = 8+1
...etc...

How do I get these keys? 




From michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it  Mon Nov 22 12:48:44 2004
From: michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it (Michele Petrazzo)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:48:44 +0100
Subject: Problem with registry under WIN XP ? :-((
In-Reply-To: <slrnfa00000cq3tdp.6b9b.pbouige@electre.pasteur.fr>
References: <slrnfa00000cq3tdp.6b9b.pbouige@electre.pasteur.fr>
Message-ID: <cnt8v9$mfg$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>

Philippe Bouige wrote:
> Hello,
> 
>      After install de Zope under WINXP, I have not problem
>      with zope but it's not possible install module for
>      my version python 2.3... The message is :
>      "Python version 2.3 required, which was not found
>      registry"... but I have python23 !!! How to modify
>      registry ?
> 
>               Thank you very much for your help

Try to re-install python.
Michele


From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Nov  8 16:58:24 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 22:58:24 +0100
Subject: unicodedata . normalize (NFD - NFC) inconsistency
In-Reply-To: <6rouo0timlrp4ddhoh88a38ftpekms75va@4ax.com>
References: <6rouo0timlrp4ddhoh88a38ftpekms75va@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <418FEC00.2080702@v.loewis.de>

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
> I have no extensive knowledge about Unicode, yet I believe that this
> must be a problem of the Unicode 3.2 specification and not Python's.

Without checking the details: very well possible. Could this be
an instance of python.org/sf/1054943 ?

Regards,
Martin


From richard at logixlab.com  Mon Nov  1 18:47:23 2004
From: richard at logixlab.com (Richard Kessler)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 23:47:23 GMT
Subject: SOAPpy and .NET  - Help
Message-ID: <fWzhd.1265$O11.720@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

I am trying to get a .NET service to return data to a SOAPpy client. So far,
total failure. I have tried everything I can think of as a relative newbie,
nevertheless, I would like to save myself time if someone out there with
more experience knows that I am barking up the wrong tree.

The error I get back from .NET is "failed to create object".

The .NET service works fine responding to a SOAP request going over HTTP
using httplib, but will not accept a call from SOAPpy.

Any thoughts from those who may have already walked down this path would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Richard Kessler
richard at logixlab.com
richard.kessler at matteicos.com






From trasno-bounces at ceu.fi.udc.es  Tue Nov 30 11:48:19 2004
From: trasno-bounces at ceu.fi.udc.es (trasno-bounces at ceu.fi.udc.es)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:48:19 +0100
Subject: Your message to Trasno awaits moderator approval
Message-ID: <mailman.238.1101833299.1388.trasno@ceu.fi.udc.es>

Your mail to 'Trasno' with the subject

    FwD: Details

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    SpamAssassin identified this message as possible spam (score 2.4)

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.  If you would like to cancel
this posting, please visit the following URL:

    http://ceu.fi.udc.es/cgi-bin/mailman/confirm/trasno/a292f648bbb4ea9877114720bc258eda1616a659



From whereU at now.com  Sat Nov 20 14:02:45 2004
From: whereU at now.com (Eric Pederson)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 11:02:45 -0800
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <slrncpt9q8.k2j.ca765@juniper.sweetshade.local>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.6614.1100891946.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpt9q8.k2j.ca765@juniper.sweetshade.local>
Message-ID: <20041120110245.229396893.whereU@now.com>

> 
>     Is Too!
> Is Not!
>     Is Too!
> Is Not!
> ...
> 


NOTICE

In light of this instant notice of our intent to patent the following inventions, please cease and desist from using them immediately:

meToo  (and the equivalent variants: me too, MeToo, meToo, me_too, _me_too, _me_too_, etc.)

+1  (also: plus1, +_1, plus_1, plus_one, and nonplussed)

No claim is made, however, to MS_sucks, as we acknowledge this sentiment is well established within the public domain.



EP
"knowing Mr. Bill and his legions lose no sleep over the various protests..."



:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
domainNot="@something.com"
domainIs=domainNot.replace("s","z")
ePrefix="".join([chr(ord(x)+1) for x in "do"])
mailMeAt=ePrefix+domainIs
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::



From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sat Nov  6 13:50:47 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 10:50:47 -0800
Subject: How come wxPython isn't in the standard library?
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<aj3u52-a2r.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <ogjv52-anq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Roger Binns wrote:
> Anything that is in stdlib is somewhat constrained to the same release
> schedule as the core Python.  For example it would have been bad to do
> the wxPython 2.4 to 2.5 transition during the 2.3 Python series.

The other thing I failed to mention is that the wxPython API isn't very
Pythonic.  (This doesn't matter to people like me who are used to GUI
programming - the wxPython API is very much in the normal style for GUI
APIs.)

There is an expectation that modules in the standard library are good
examples of Pythonic APIs, programming, documentation, self tests etc.

Roger 




From k2riddim at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 09:30:50 2004
From: k2riddim at gmail.com (k2riddim)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 06:30:50 -0800
Subject: Problem with tkinter mainloop
References: <e45f2bb3.0411300235.5c9b8d22@posting.google.com>
	<41ac53ac$0$30438$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <e45f2bb3.0411300630.4f24b963@posting.google.com>

Many thanks, You're right this wasn't my code, this was just what I
can remember, because my application is at home, and I'm at work.
Be sure I'll follow your advices concerning posting rules in this
group !

Eric Brunel <eric_brunel at despammed.com> wrote in message news:<41ac53ac$0$30438$8fcfb975 at news.wanadoo.fr>...
> k2riddim wrote:
> > Hello,
> > I'm a beginner with Python and Tkinter development.
> > My application parse links in an html file. And I use Tkinter to
> > implement a GUI. This GUI has a button to launch the parse treatment,
> > and a status bar to show the state of the treatment.
> > I know that because of the mainloop, my tkinter application freeze
> > while my treatment isn't finished. That's why my status bar doesn't
> > update herself in real time.
> > I wanted to use the after or the after_idle function, but I don't
> > really understand why it doesn't work.
> 
> after and after_idle won't help you: the action you register in these methods 
> are called only when the main loop gets back the control, and your problem is 
> precisely that the main loop does not get it...
> 
> The method you're probably looking for is update_idletasks: it updates the 
> display without getting any user event. There's another method called update, 
> but this one does process user events, so it may call some of your code if such 
> an event is pending. This is usually not what you want to do, except in some 
> very rare cases.
> 
> Here is how it may look like in your code, along with a few remarks on your code:
> 
> > 
> > My apps is build approximately like that :
> > 
> > ---Gui.py---
> > class Gui(Frame):
> 
> Why do you inherit from Frame? A Tkinter Frame is a generic container widget; 
> this is not a window. IMHO, you'd better inherit from Tk for your main window or 
> from Toplevel for other windows. You'd also get better control on the actual 
> window, since some of the methods available on Tk and Toplevel are not available 
> on other widgets (e.g. geometry or protocol)
> 
> >         def __init__(self):
> >                 ...
> >         def launchTreatment(self):
> >                b = Treatment()
> >                self.after(b.treatment.parse)
> 
> This cannot be your code; the after methods takes two parameters: the number of 
> milliseconds to wait before the action will be called and the action itself. You 
> only provide the action here. But again, the after method won't help you to get 
> what you want...
> 
> > 
> > ---Treatment.py---
> > class Treatment():
> >         def __init__(self):
> >                 ...
> >         def parse(self):
> >                ...
> >                GUIinstance.status.set("state 1")
> 
> This is where the GUIinstance.update_idletasks() should go.
> 
> >                ...
> >                GUIinstance.status.set("state 2")
> 
> Another GUIinstance.update_idletasks() here.
> 
> > 
> > 
> > ---Main.py---
> > #instanciation of classes
> > GUIinstance = Gui
> 
> Again, this cannot be your code, since you do not instantiate the class here. 
> The correct line should be:
> 
> GUIinstance = Gui()
> 
> It is usually far better to post a working example demonstrating the problem you 
> have instead of just extracting a few lines of your whole code. This will help 
> people who are willing to help to understand exactly what is going on.
> 
> HTH


From pipene-news at pu.kielce.pl  Wed Nov 17 16:36:45 2004
From: pipene-news at pu.kielce.pl (Artur M. Piwko)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:36:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: FBI SADISTS SEXUALLY ABUSED ME and RAPED ME for 3 YRS and
	BEHEADED ME
References: <bd43c4e0.0411010354.7bb0f94c@posting.google.com>
	<be74c859.0411011214.57ae1442@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrncpnh3d.6ia.pipene-news@beast.tu.kielce.pl>

In the darkest hour on 1 Nov 2004 12:14:22 -0800,
Mickey <mickeyb at comcast.net> screamed:
> Help, Help..... The paranoids are after me....
>
> You sir are in DIRE need of VERY strong medication
>

I think he used too much drugs already...

Artur

-- 
[ Artur M. Piwko : Pipen : AMP29-RIPE : RLU:100918 : From == Trap! : SIG:228B ]
[ 22:35:59 user up 10433 days, 10:30,  1 user, load average: 0.06, 0.06, 0.06 ]

            DYNAMIC LINKING ERROR:  Your mistake is now everywhere.


From even at pondie.com  Mon Nov 29 22:28:11 2004
From: even at pondie.com (Ben Floyd)
Date: 29 Nov 2004 19:28:11 -0800
Subject: threading, qt, and the freakout
Message-ID: <604fc0ca.0411291928.4d59781d@posting.google.com>

Hey everyone,

Why doesn't this work? The code speaks much more clearly than I do,
so i shortened it and pasted it below.  Running this
and clicking on 'Break Me' will... freak out the window...

But... only when the pushbutton_obj.setText("Updated") line
is in the thread. If I comment out the threading code
and uncomment the line below "#WORKS", the button text
updates fine. But in the thread it breaks...

I feel like I'm being stupid here, so ANY suggestions are
much appreciated.

Thanks all.
Ben Floyd
even at pondie.com


#############CUT#############
from qt import *
import sys
import threading

class Form1(QMainWindow):
    def __init__(self,parent = None,name = None,fl = 0):
        QMainWindow.__init__(self,parent,name,fl)
        self.setCentralWidget(QWidget(self,"qt_central_widget"))
        self.pushButton1 = QPushButton(self.centralWidget(),"pushButton1")
        self.pushButton1.setText("Break Me")
        self.connect(self.pushButton1,SIGNAL("clicked()"),self.doSomething)

    def doSomething(self):
        a = DoStuff()
        a.go(self.pushButton1)

class DoStuff:
    def go(self, pushbutton_obj):
        def runThread():
            #DOESNT WORK
            pushbutton_obj.setText("Updated")

        go = threading.Thread(target=runThread)
        go.start()
        
        #WORKS
        #pushbutton_obj.setText("Updated")
        
if __name__ == "__main__":
    app = QApplication(sys.argv)
    f = Form1()
    f.show()
    app.setMainWidget(f)
    app.exec_loop()


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov  1 14:03:42 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 14:03:42 -0500
Subject: name of an instance
References: <40a939c9.0410291820.fada696@posting.google.com><40a939c9.0410310827.112f13a1@posting.google.com><864d370904103113373b9698f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<6FAE7CBE-2BF1-11D9-841C-0003939C968C@unito.it>
Message-ID: <cm61a6$106$1@sea.gmane.org>


"andrea valle" <andrea.valle at unito.it> wrote in message 
news:6FAE7CBE-2BF1-11D9-841C-0003939C968C at unito.it...
>How do I access the name of an instance?

By giving __init__ a name param that you store as self.name so that the 
instance really has a name.  (def and class statements do something 
similar)
---
class MyClass:
  def __init__(self, name='No name'):
    self.name = name
  def __str__(self): return self.name

Terry J. Reedy





From alban at magproductions.nl  Mon Nov  8 09:26:11 2004
From: alban at magproductions.nl (Alban Hertroys)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 15:26:11 +0100
Subject: psycopg, transactions and multiple cursors
In-Reply-To: <418f7ef6$0$18496$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
References: <cmnqpk$2gh$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<418f7ef6$0$18496$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <cmnvm6$8j7$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>

Michel Claveau - abstraction m?ta-galactique non triviale en fuite 
perp?tuelle. wrote:
> Mais est-ce bien un probl?me Python ?
> But is this well a Python problem?

It is probably a problem with psycopg (or with PostgreSQL, for which it 
is a Python module). So, I suppose it is, but I lack the information to 
be certain.


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Nov 21 22:50:46 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 22:50:46 -0500
Subject: The Microsoft Platform Ahead by David Platt;
 thoughts about Python and Zope
In-Reply-To: <AQ5od.24563$6q2.12650@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
References: <AQ5od.24563$6q2.12650@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <cnrnht$ota$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

John Benson wrote:
> Will the open-source web service frameworks suffer the same fate as the 
> Netscape browser?

You mean, the one most recently making headlines under the title
"Firefox"?  ;-)

-Peter


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Sat Nov 20 08:05:08 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:05:08 +0100
Subject: Help for newbie
References: <419f06a8$0$32335$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <cnnfe4$qce$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Leuk wrote:

> I would like to use ZODB, but I'm a newbie in Python, so I do not know if
> it be more easy for me to use PostgreSQL.
> Some one can tell me what database will be better to use? What are de
> differencies between this two databases?

To use zodb after you installed it is a piece of cake. It goes along these
lines (they are from an actual project, so they aren't spiced up as proper
example code:)

db = ZODB.DB(ZODB.FileStorage.FileStorage(database))
conn = db.open()
dbroot = conn.root()

As dbroot is a dictionary-like object, you can start inserting arbitrary
objects there, as long as they extend from the class Persistent. There are
tutorials/examples out there, that will show you the neccessary stuff.

On the pro side, zodb is an object database - you can more or less stuff
everything in there, and retrieve it as objects again - no object
relational mapping and so on. Even complex object graphs can be stored, n:m
relations are simply modelled by python's list and dict types - actually,
there are some zodb-classes that you need to use for practical reasons, but
the interface is the well-known one you love form your common python
container objects ;)

You also don't need any server infrastructure.

The cons are to my POV:

 - the more explicit data model of an rdbms like postgres allows for easier
migration. If your zodb storage contains objects of type foo, which you
then alter, it can happen that restored objects are not what you expect
them to be - they might miss data. While data migration is a matter in
rdbms too, its somewhat easier due to the simpler structure of the data.

 - no builtin querying, let alone indexing. I've actually written my own
object query language (which is fun for starters, but gets tedious). So if
you are going to create much reports, zodb might not suit you so well. Of
course you can write all sorts of extensions - ZCatalog is a powerful
example - but in the end, you'll write a rdbms-like thingy on top of zodb.
then a rdbms might be the betteor choice in the first place. And there is
of course no shell-like interface to your db, as these are provided for the
rdbms out there.

 - collisions after concurrent modifications can be a nasty thing - an the
docs are not to clear about what to do. It took me quite some time to solve
some issues with that.

 - the advantage of no need for infrastructure can be a disadvantage of
course - as you have no model of acces rights on your data, you have to
somehow insure that yourself. Having said that, one has to keep in mind
that most database driven apps also only have one user for the connection.
I once tried to utilize the elaborated oracle user rights management, and
failed miserably - its a complicated endeavour.

While the cons seem to outweight the pros in sheer number, my personal exp.
is that at least for prototyping and from a pure programmers POV, ZODB
wins. Maybe if the project is mature enough, you can go and create
object2relational mappings - but through developement, things are nicer in
zodb.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From exarkun at divmod.com  Mon Nov  1 07:59:01 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 12:59:01 GMT
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
In-Reply-To: <4185e098.1316872382@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <20041101125901.9171.1147007164.divmod.quotient.1368@ohm>

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 07:20:51 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 03:11:42 GMT, exarkun at divmod.com wrote:
> 
> >On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:00:07 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
> >> [snip]
> >> 
> >> BTW, will anything that works in a list comprehension work in a generator expression
> >> (assuming one does not depend on the generator expression having leftover outside
> >> side effect bindings like the LC version)?
> >> 
> >
> >  Nope.  For example, I don't think the code in this thread will work if converted to a generator expression.  A simplified example:
> >
> >    >>> x = 0 
> >    >>> list(x for x in iter(lambda: x + 1, 4))
> >    ( runs forever, so C-c )
> >    Traceback (most recent call last):
> >      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> >      File "<stdin>", line 1, in <generator expression>
> >    KeyboardInterrupt
> >    >>> [x for x in iter(lambda: x + 1, 4)]
> >    [1, 2, 3]
> >    >>> 
> >
> >  `x' in the lambda in the list comprehension resolves to a different name than `x' in the generator comprehension.
> >
> I had a sneaky suspicion that it _could_ be so, hoping not. But your example doesn't play fair
> because you don't give x an initial condition inside the scope of the expression. E.g.,
> 
>  >>> [x for x in [0] for x in iter(lambda:x+1, 4)]
>  [1, 2, 3]
>  >>> list(x for x in [0] for x in iter(lambda:x+1, 4))
>    File "<stdin>", line 1
>      list(x for x in [0] for x in iter(lambda:x+1, 4))
>               ^
>  SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> 

  I'm not sure what "playing fair" means here :)  I gave an example of a list comprehension that behaves differently when trivially rewritten as a generator comprehension, without relying on the one behavioral difference you explicitly omitted.  I do appear to have been wrong about this change applying to the number_in_base function, though.

  Jp


From len-1 at telus.net  Sat Nov 27 15:22:35 2004
From: len-1 at telus.net (Lenard Lindstrom)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:22:35 GMT
Subject: subclassing extension type and assignment to __class__
References: <41a87eb5$0$13482$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <ekifcac8.fsf@telus.net>

gregory lielens <gregory.lielens at fft.be> writes:

> Hello,
> 
> I am currently writing python bindings to an existing C++ library, and
> I just encountered a problem that I hope has been solved by more
> experienced python programmers:
> 
> A C++ class (let's call it CClass) is binded using classical Python
> extension API to _PClass, which is accesible through python without
> any problem. The problem is that I want this class to be
> extended/extensible in python, and expose the python-extended version
> (PClass) to library users (_PClass should never be used directly nor
> be retruned by any function).
> The aim is to leave only performance critical methods in C++ so that
> the binding work is minimal, and develop the other methods in python
> so that they are easier to maintain/extend.
> 
> We thus have something like this
> 
> class PClass(_PClass):
>    def overide_method(self,...):
>      ...
>    def new_method(self,...):
>      ...
> 
> and I can define
> a=PClass()
> and use my new or overiden method
> a.overide_method() a.new_method() as intended...
> 
> So far, so good, trouble begin when I have a method from another class
> PClass2 derived from _PClass2 which bind the C++ class CClass2, that
> should return objects of type PClass:
> 
> Let call this method troublesome_method:
> 
> b=_PClass2()
> c=b.troublesome_method()
> type(c) gives _PClass.
> 
> now I want to define a python class PClass2 for extending methods of
> _PClass2 like I have done for _PClass, in particular I want that
> PClass2 troublesome_method return objects of type PClass instead of
> _PClass...
> 
> To this end I try something like this
> 
> class PClass2(_PClass2):
>      ...
>      def troubelsome_method(self):
>         base=_PClass2.troublesome_method(self)
>         base.__class__=PClass
> 
> and I have python complaining about TypeError: __class__ assignment:
> only for heap types...
> 
> It seems thus that my approach is not possible, but problem is that I
> can not see another approach that would not involve far more efforts
> that this one (I have the impression I have to forget about making my
> PClass derived from _PClass, but instead embed a _PClass instance in
> PClass, far from ideal cause I would have to reimplement all method,
> not only those that I want to change :( )
> This is particularly frustrating cause I also have the impression that
> want I want to do was at one time possible in python, let say in
> 2002-2003, when __class__ was already assignable but before assignment
> was forbidden for non-heap types
> 
> Any hint on this problem?
> 
I have just run into the same thing with the builtin list type. The trick
was not to declare my subclass directly from list, but rather a subclass
of list. So try this:

class PClassBase(_PClass):
    pass

class PClass(PClassBase):
    ...

class PClass2(PClassBase):
    ...

Why? I cannot say other than I have noted that Python new-style classes
and extension types are not quite the same thing. That is, a new-style
class is a particular kind of extension type.

Lenard Lindstrom
<len-l at telus.net>


From bsmith at aon.at  Sun Nov  7 13:53:08 2004
From: bsmith at aon.at (bsmith)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 19:53:08 +0100
Subject: remove assert statement (Was: Re: PEP new assert idiom)
References: <mailman.6070.1099842221.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.07.18.53.02.134502@aon.at>

On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 07:42:21 -0800, Robert Brewer wrote:

> Gerrit wrote:
>> In my opinion, assert is almost useless. It can sometimes be 
>> useful for
>> debugging purposes, but beyond that, it isn't. The exception raised by

Yea, that's what assertions are for!  They allow the programmer to
document their assumptions in such a way that they'll be immediately
notified of a collision between their mental model and the real world. 

If you want more specificity, may I suggest explicitly throwing an
Exception.  I suppose this is one of the reasons why using assertions to
check preconditions of routines is frowned upon in some quarters.  To
enforce necessary preconditions of a function (which are part of the
function's public interface) it makes more sense to use exceptions
specifically defined for that purpose.

>> 
>> Duck typing eliminates the use of assert.

Duck typing has nothing to do with assertions.  


>> 
>> In my opinion, assert should be deprecated and then removed in Py3K:
>> assertions are redundant, unspecific, and conflict with the philosophy
>> of duck typing and EAFP.
>> 
>> What do others think of this?

I couldn't disagree more.  

The problem here isn't 'assert', but rather
it's misapplication.  Use assertions to check your own assumptions (i.e.
internally); use explicit checks and Exceptions to check inputs coming in
through your public interfaces.

I for one find assertions very useful in checking my own work, as it were.

// Ben


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Nov 17 12:48:38 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:48:38 -0600
Subject: don't NaN & infinities hide FP errors
References: <940ee3e8.0411170130.31d247@posting.google.com>	<cnf963$ioc$1@swifty.westend.com><1f7befae041117054954a8e966@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.6483.1100700011.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10pn3nnt4mcpd6c@news.supernews.com>


"Gandalf" <gandalf at geochemsource.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.6483.1100700011.5135.python-list at python.org...
>
>>The rest varies across platforms, as explained in this note at the end
>>of Python's math module docs:
>>
>>"""
>>The math module consists mostly of thin wrappers around the platform C
>>math library functions. Behavior in exceptional cases is loosely
>>specified by the C standards, and Python inherits much of its
>>math-function error-reporting behavior from the platform C
>>implementation. As a result, the specific exceptions raised in error
>>cases (and even whether some arguments are considered to be
>>exceptional at all) are not defined in any useful cross-platform or
>>cross-release way. For example, whether math.log(0) returns -Inf or
>>raises ValueError or OverflowError isn't defined, and in cases where
>>math.log(0) raises OverflowError, math.log(0L) may raise ValueError
>>instead.
>>"""
>>
> I still feel that it would be possible to use some assembly code and 
> achieve the same behaviour on all platforms.

As Jeff points out, the core developers would really like this.
However, they don't have the time to do it, so if you want to
do it, they would be grateful - as long as you follow a few
simple rules.

As I understand it, it's not quite as bad as Jeff says: the
problem is nasty enough that if you simply handle several
major platforms _consistently_, then the minor platforms
can still behave inconsistently. Then someone else can do
any of them that she wants to.

I think making Windows (both native and Cygwin) and
all the Unices (including Linux and Mac OS 10) behave
consistently would be a good start. You might also want
to look at the new floating decimal package in release 2.4
for ideas about how to handle exceptions and so forth.

There are guidelines for both Python and C code in
the Peps, and becoming familiar with the source is something
you want to do.

Make sure  you've got a thorough test suite: if something
breaks this will save a maintainer a lot of time figuring out
what.

Otherwise, have at it. Lots of people will bless you.

John Roth

> It is really not difficult to calculate log on a 387. It can be more 
> difficult on a RISC but not impossible.
> Why the implementation stuck on the C standards? Okay, maybe it is not 
> possible or too difficult to use asm code
> on some platforms. But at least Python should try to do the same thing 
> when it is possible. It could be an 'option'
> to compile low level code for the most popular operating systems. What do 
> you think?
>
>   Laci 2.0
>
> 



From arso_AT_libero_DOT_it at non.ce  Sun Nov  7 18:45:18 2004
From: arso_AT_libero_DOT_it at non.ce (Arso - Italy)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 23:45:18 GMT
Subject: Eric3 and mod_python debugging ?
Message-ID: <isyjd.22586$Es2.490451@twister2.libero.it>


Hi

someone have already used eric3 for debugging code running on apache 
using mod_python ?
After the execution of the patch for apache.py, how the debug is activated ?

More thanks for any response.

-- 

======================================================
Arso - Italy  Gentoo 2004-02  Stage 1

Armada e500
======================================================


From google at jorjun.org.uk  Sun Nov 28 08:47:12 2004
From: google at jorjun.org.uk (jorjun)
Date: 28 Nov 2004 05:47:12 -0800
Subject: FLASH:state of play for Python applets?
Message-ID: <5af25f71.0411280547.74b1aa32@posting.google.com>

For me coding is about sharing neat visuals with others.  I enjoyed
doing this as a kid in BBC BASIC and little bit of 4Mhz blisteringly
fast assembler back in the early 80s.

Then seeing those incredible Amiga demos by the various crewes, circa
1985, knocked me flat, and I abruptly dropped my coding weapons (Amgia
Basic) - they were just too awesome and obviously effective 
collaborations by the various 'crews'.

But those Amiga days have gone, and not the internet has opened up new
possibilities. At least here in Broadband Britain.

And as an adult I have my own graphical ideas to share which may not
be whizz-bang and all-that, but I still want to do them. And we have
got used to 3D animating spectacles, it is time for more in-depth
models to expound...

So, I bought a book on Flash!

But.

actionscript looks too much like javascript.

What is the state of play with python coolness plugins for firefox,
mozilla, safari?

I haven't been able to google much on 'python flash', 'openflash'
,'python actionscript', etc.

Your guidance is much appreciated.


From bill.mill at gmail.com  Sat Nov 13 16:14:21 2004
From: bill.mill at gmail.com (Bill  Mill)
Date: 13 Nov 2004 13:14:21 -0800
Subject: numarray + cPickle problem
In-Reply-To: <t2lcp0l1b9lkfiv3jp8ejbro7vhgpi96fh@4ax.com>
References: <1100326589.669597.252570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1100366822.119444.157780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1100367031.042556.162860@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<t2lcp0l1b9lkfiv3jp8ejbro7vhgpi96fh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1100380461.558144.122400@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Andrea,

> It *IS* documented...

I saw that when I figured out what was going on. I should have been
more specific. What I meant was that in the Python module documentation
(of cPickle or pickle) on the web should include that little tidbit
which is really rather important. I don't believe that you need to use
binary mode on Unix (though I could be wrong), and that is where I am
used to working, so this error surprised me.

On the website, it doesn't say that anywhere, and it should, IMHO.
Peace
Bill Mill
bill.mill at gmail.com



From someone at microsoft.com  Sat Nov 27 17:51:24 2004
From: someone at microsoft.com (Jive)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 22:51:24 GMT
Subject: futue feature division not found  (embedded)
Message-ID: <Ix7qd.5229833$ic1.487950@news.easynews.com>

I've got a program with Python 2.3 embedded.  When I try to run a script
containing "from __future__ import division", I get an exception:

    File "main2.py", line 3
    from __future__ import divison
SyntaxError: future feature divison is not defined

Anyone know how to fix that?  BTW, when I run the program with
CO_FUTURE_DIVISION set in PyCompilerFlags, division works the new way, as it
should.




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Nov 10 11:00:58 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:00:58 -0600
Subject: About a python module (iptables)
In-Reply-To: <200411100957.29615.dsa@unilestemg.br> (Douglas Soares de
	Andrade's message of "Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:57:29 +0000")
References: <200411100957.29615.dsa@unilestemg.br>
Message-ID: <m3oei5u211.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "Douglas" == Douglas Soares de Andrade <dsa at unilestemg.br> writes:

    Douglas> Hi !  Is there a module to do the interaction between
    Douglas> python and iptables ? I want to make a app to interect
    Douglas> with iptables (new chain, erase chain, list chain,
    Douglas> generate rules and so on).

I've written one that I've used privately for years on standalone
machines as well as routers using NAT/etc.  It doesn't support all of
iptables, but it does the common stuff.  In debug mode, it only prints
out the rules to the logfile, but doesn't execute them.

Whether it is sophisticated enough for your app, I don't know.  It was
designed simply to setup the iptables config and then run, so there is
no support for erasing chains, etc....

I've uploaded a tarfile to
http://jdh.uchicago.edu/share/py_iptables.tar.gz which contains the
module code and some example scripts.

Here is a simple script to configure the firewall for a typical
standalone machine.

#!/usr/bin/env python
from IptablesRules import IptablesRules

# debug=False executes the commands - you must be superuser
ipt = IptablesRules(debug=True, verbose='moderate')

nameservers = ipt.get_nameservers()

# udpAccept and tcpAccept are dictionaries from ports to
# machines which have access to those ports
udpAccept = {"domain" : nameservers,}

# we've parsed /etc/services so you can specify ports by name or
# number.
tcpAccept  = {
    ('smtp', 'ntp', 'ssh', 'ftp', 'http', 'https') : 'all',
    ('postgres', ) : "128.135.0.0/16",   # limit to U of C
    ('all', ) : "128.135.90.217/32",     # my printer
    }

ipt.broadcast_policy(eth_iface="eth0", chain='DROP')
ipt.drop_nolog_ports(ports = ('auth', 'netbios-ns', 'microsoft-ds'), eth_iface="eth0")
ipt.implement_rules( udp_accept  = udpAccept,
                     icmp_accept = ( 0, 3, 5, 8, 11 ),
                     tcp_accept = tcpAccept,
                     eth_iface   = "eth0"
                     )
ipt.execute( logfile = '/var/tmp/iptables_rules' )



From robin at reportlab.com  Thu Nov 18 10:34:31 2004
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:34:31 +0000
Subject: PIL for Python 2.4?
In-Reply-To: <g9fpp052jgameoq804mvl7evn4jtgjp0nl@4ax.com>
References: <6r6pp018glonqu2kqeau5ru9nhfj9fpchv@4ax.com>
	<mailman.6543.1100784027.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<b0cpp0tveaidq3lbnsvnji5apnloi4u2g8@4ax.com>
	<419CB9D2.2030504@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
	<g9fpp052jgameoq804mvl7evn4jtgjp0nl@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <419CC107.6040401@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:03:46 +0000, rumours say that Robin Becker
> <robin at reportlab.com> might have written:
> 
> 
>>well I have old MS VC++ 6 and building with setup.py Python 2.4b2 gives an error 
>>related to the compiler; :( I guess I need MSVC++ 7.
> 
> 
> I didn't even *try* to build it on an installation of MS VS 6 we have in
> the office because I remember the long discussion about the transition
> to VS 7, and the need for the building of other libriaries with VS 7
> too...  Of course, I could completely build Python 2.4 with VS 6 and
> then build PIL, which is what I'll do next.  I just wanted to avoid
> troubles with VS 6 project files being out of sync, so I asked if anyone
> did the build.
> 
> Thanks for trying though.

I had a few problems building 2.4b2 on 6; I think the old projects are unmaintained.
-- 
Robin Becker


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Fri Nov  5 07:40:59 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 07:40:59 -0500
Subject: Simple thread pools
In-Reply-To: <418B4654.3080807@debpro.webcom.dk>
References: <418A4900.7020304@debpro.webcom.dk>	<20041104102722.F815.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<418B4654.3080807@debpro.webcom.dk>
Message-ID: <418B74DB.7030804@bellsouth.net>

Jacob Friis wrote:

>>> I'm setting NUM_FEEDERS to 1000.
>>> Is that crazy?
>>
>>
>> Not crazy, but foolish.  Thread scheduling in Python reduces performance
>> beyond a few dozen threads.  If you are doing system calls (socket.recv,
>> file.read, etc.), your performance will be poor.
>
>
> Is there no way via Python to download say 1000 files simultaneously?
>
> - Jacob

Not to question whether you need to do this or not, but are you sure you 
need to do this?  Assuming you really really do, you may want to check 
out either asyn(core|chat) in the Python standard library or Twisted.  
I've only piddled with Twisted, and that only on the server end and 
never have done anything with the async things in the std lib, but they 
may do what you want them to do.


Jeremy Jones


From cm012b5105 at blueyonder.co.uk  Sat Nov 27 10:57:31 2004
From: cm012b5105 at blueyonder.co.uk (cm012b5105)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:57:31 -0000
Subject: how do i create a box
Message-ID: <004301c4d499$cd598f60$01452452@carm>

Hello i have recently started learning python iv been using idle.Ihave just installed pygame now what i would like to know is how to draw a box nothing fancy just a simple boxcan any one give me any starting tips please
thanks nige
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From richie at entrian.com  Tue Nov  2 11:50:59 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 16:50:59 +0000
Subject: fastest way for humongous regexp search?
In-Reply-To: <cm8993$gp8$1@license1.unx.sas.com>
References: <cm5lv3$7p4$1@license1.unx.sas.com>
	<sZqdnc_PlckB8BvcRVn-pw@giganews.com>
	<cm8993$gp8$1@license1.unx.sas.com>
Message-ID: <pdefo05m2vls517ffgt8lo83p8vs2duk8p@4ax.com>


[Tim]
> I've got a list of 1000 common misspellings, and I'd like to check a set
> of text files for those misspellings.

[Istvan]
> A much simpler way would be to just store these misspellings as a
> dictionary (or set), read and split each line into words, then check
> whether each of words is in the set.

[Tim]
> Thanks, I didn't know that would be faster.
> But I need to match against the misspellings in a case-insensitive
> way--that's the reason I'm using the regular expressions.

Make the misspelling set lower case, and convert the list of words from
the text file into lower case before comparing them:

>>> from sets import Set
>>> misspellings = Set(['speling', 'misteak'])
>>> text = "Does this text contain any common speling mistakes?"
>>> print [word for word in text.split() if word in misspellings]
['speling']

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com



From drew at gremlinhosting.com  Mon Nov 22 17:50:40 2004
From: drew at gremlinhosting.com (Andrew James)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:50:40 +0000
Subject: login script to database
In-Reply-To: <41a25361$0$17573$ba624c82@nntp06.dk.telia.net>
References: <41a25361$0$17573$ba624c82@nntp06.dk.telia.net>
Message-ID: <1101163840.21614.3.camel@odin>

Peter,
Have you had a look at the capabilities of the Apache module mod_auth. I
believe there's an extension module allowing basic authentication off a
PostgreSQL database. This would alleviate your need to write any code at
all!

Regards,
Andrew

On Mon, 2004-11-22 at 22:12 +0100, Peter..... wrote:
> Hi all.
> 
> I want to make a login script( using python) to a homepage.
> The password and name is stored in a PostgreSQL database, so I have to go to 
> connect to the database ( I know how to do that )
> but I dont know how to write a login script in python and how to look if the 
> password and name entered is the same as in the database, if it is I want to 
> link to a webpage www.webpage.com if it isnt I want it to write a message 
> like " Wrong password entered "
> 
> Can any help me out :D
> 
> Thanks for your time.. 
> 
> 
-- 
Andrew James <drew at gremlinhosting.com>



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 17:59:48 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 22:59:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Translating escaped characters
References: <j6qi52-ei2.ln1@tchaikovsky.freecode.dk>
Message-ID: <loom.20041101T235400-860@post.gmane.org>

Henrik S. Hansen <hsh <at> freecode.dk> writes:

> 
> How do you best go about translating characters like '\\n' to '\n'?

Is this what you're looking for?

>>> '\\n'.decode('string_escape')
'\n'
>>> '\n'.encode('string_escape')
'\\n'

There's some info about it here:

http://docs.python.org/lib/node127.html

and searching Google Groups shows up a few things too:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=escape+sequences&
meta=group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

(Sorry, the URL wrapped.)

Steve



From niels_bohr at uol.com.br  Sat Nov  6 15:47:45 2004
From: niels_bohr at uol.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio?= Mendes)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 18:47:45 -0200
Subject: Newsgroup mood [was] why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <418D0FF7.3070106@po-box.mcgill.ca>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04> <418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<418D0FF7.3070106@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Message-ID: <1099774065.32393.52.camel@localhost.localdomain>

[...]
> As a relative newbie myself, I think I might make a better person to
> start off (1) and (2) than some of the old-hands who are further away
> from the newbie mindset. And, on the "talk not followed by effort is
> chatter" principle, I surely ought volunteer, too ;-) I'm happy to do
> so, provided 1) it doesn't strike people as a silly or hopelessly
> naive
> idea, 2) I'm not committed to providing a proof of concept within the
> next week :-) , and 3) I can count on other's to do the wiki thing to
> my 
> starting effort.
> 
> So, if anyone's still reading, thanks. I'm curious to see if the
> suggestion seems worthwhile. Best to all,

This would be very nice in any OOS list! 
+1

Fabio


From rtw at freenet.co.uk  Tue Nov 30 12:47:55 2004
From: rtw at freenet.co.uk (Rob Williscroft)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 17:47:55 GMT
Subject: comment out more than 1 line at once?
References: <cohc71$2pqli$1@claire.desy.de>
Message-ID: <Xns95B1B4E0EFF52ukcoREMOVEfreenetrtw@130.133.1.4>

Riko Wichmann wrote in news:cohc71$2pqli$1 at claire.desy.de in 
comp.lang.python:

> Dear all,
> 
> is there a way in Python to comment out blocks of code without putting a 
> # in front of each line? Somethings like C's
> 
> /*
>      block of code here is commented out
> */
> 

if False:

  (indented) block of code here is commented out

I've no idea how efficient it is compared to triple-quoted strings
or line by line comments. But (at least with the editors I use) it
does retain the syntax highlighting, which I quite like YMMV.

BTW for C and C++:

#if 0

 block of code here is commented out
 /* with embeded comments ! */

#endif

Rob.
-- 
http://www.victim-prime.dsl.pipex.com/


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Thu Nov  4 08:53:17 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 08:53:17 -0500
Subject: documenting PLYed parsers
In-Reply-To: <41896eb3$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
References: <41896eb3$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <ltidncK1hMnQqRfcRVn-1A@giganews.com>

Maurice LING wrote:


> So I was thinking about how can I document my codes, which can be 
> processed by epydoc or happydoc? Will my comments, enclosed by ''', 
> interferes with PLY?

You could also use pythondoc that uses
comments that are listed before a function
defintion (the java way).

http://effbot.org/downloads/#pythondoc

Istvan.


From james at foomatic.net  Sun Nov 28 01:14:09 2004
From: james at foomatic.net (James Davies)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 16:14:09 +1000
Subject: Packing up zope+products as an exe?
References: <583afd79.0411251701.28d8ca60@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41a96cbc$0$25786$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Yes- as an installer (not as a standalong application). 

If you package up an entire zope tree (using anything from from
Installshield to WinZip self extracting exe's), you could create an
installer and place an icon on the users desktop.





Arsalan wrote:

> Hi.
> 
> Is it possible to bundle up a couple of products + zope as a single,
> easily distributable .exe? Something like py2exe, but for zope. And
> cross-platform (i.e. an .exe for Win* and binary for *nix)
> 
> I want my users (esp windows ones) to be able to start up my zope
> stuff locally with just a click...
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> --Arsalan
> http://www.achates.biz



From mickeyb at comcast.net  Mon Nov  1 15:14:22 2004
From: mickeyb at comcast.net (Mickey)
Date: 1 Nov 2004 12:14:22 -0800
Subject: FBI SADISTS SEXUALLY ABUSED ME and RAPED ME for 3 YRS and
	BEHEADED ME
References: <bd43c4e0.0411010354.7bb0f94c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <be74c859.0411011214.57ae1442@posting.google.com>

keithn1234 at yahoo.com (Keith) wrote in message news:<bd43c4e0.0411010354.7bb0f94c at posting.google.com>...

Help, Help..... The paranoids are after me....

You sir are in DIRE need of VERY strong medication

Mickey


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Nov 19 11:51:13 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:51:13 -0600
Subject: Wrapping a C library in Python
In-Reply-To: <e253918f.0411190823.25921d6b@posting.google.com>
	(loritsch@gmail.com's message of "19 Nov 2004 08:23:57 -0800")
References: <roy-99F088.20103518112004@reader1.panix.com>
	<e253918f.0411190823.25921d6b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m38y8xeq9q.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Loritsch <loritsch at gmail.com> writes:

    Roy> For example, all of these functions return an error code
    Roy> (typically just errno passed along, but not always).  They
    Roy> all accept as one of their arguments a pointer to someplace
    Roy> to store their result.  I want to change all that to
    Roy> returning the result directly and throwing exceptions.

    Roy> I also want to mutate some of the return types.  A common way
    Roy> these functions return a set of values is a pair of arrays of
    Roy> strings, forming key-value pairs.  In Python, it would make
    Roy> sense to return this as a dictionary.

SWIG can do all this - see the section on typemaps and call policies
in the SWIG manual.

For example, it is easy to tell SWIG that pointers are used for output

  void somefunc(double *OUTPUT, double *OUTPUT)

will be called from python like

  x, y = o.somefunc()

And you need to do no more than add the one declaration line.  INPUT,
OUTPUT and INOUT are special tokens that SWIG recognizes and applies
translation rules too.  You can define your own such tokens to do more
complicated things (like turning a double *array into a python list,
etc)

    Michael> I recommend both boost::python
    Michael> (http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/index.html) and
    Michael> ctypes (http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/),
    Michael> but for very different reasons.

    Michael> If wrapped code speed and production of a binary is a
    Michael> goal in creating your python extensions, use
    Michael> boost::python.  The price you pay for creating an fast
    Michael> binary python extension is coding your translation from
    Michael> python in C/C++ in C/C++ (I suppose you could get around
    Michael> this by creating a boost::python module, and then
    Michael> wrapping it with a python module to do the type
    Michael> translation).  And in boost::python, C++ to python
    Michael> exception translation is supported.

I don't fully agree with this.  I've been working on a wrapper for
antigrain, a C++ library that makes heavy use of templates.  I started
off using pyste (a boost::python generator) and boost.  It worked
reasonably well - pyste is not being actively maintained right but you
can usually work around the limitations by writing boost code where
you need to.  I was reasonably happy, until I saw my *.so files
ballooning.  After wrapping a small fraction of the library, and
having instantiated only a few of the many templates I ultimately
wanted, my extension files were at 20MB, which is *much larger* than
the agg library or moderately sophisticated applications built around
it.  And I still had *a lot* left to expose!

I started over in SWIG.  First, SWIG has excellent support for C++ and
templates, and in many cases could auto-wrap and entire header with

%include "someheader.h"

Second, by the time I had the SWIG wrapping to a comparable point that
the boost wrapping was at when I started over, I had only a 500K
extension module.  Same functionality, 40x smaller.  Since ultimately
I may want to distribute my software in compiled form (eg a windows
installer) this is an important difference.  Third, the compile times
were much shorter in SWIG.  Fourth, SWIG produces c and cxx files as
its output, which you can distribute with your app (user doesn't need
to have SWIG to compile).  This is not true for boost.

In a nutshell, for wrapping a large C++ library (not the original
poster's question, I know), I found SWIG more suitable for the reasons
above.  I don't want to slam boost - I think it is an awesome package
-- but you should be aware of these potential problems.  The ease of
wrapping agg was comparable in boost and SWIG.

Where boost (and pycxx) really shines above SWIG is when you want to
write functions and methods yourself that interact with python objects
-- for example if you were writing a python extension largely from
scratch rather than wrapping an existing library.  The ability to use
friendly boost C++ classes like dict and list that manage memory for
you and have a pythonic feel is great.

JDH


From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  5 14:03:44 2004
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (G. S. Hayes)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 11:03:44 -0800
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <96c2e938.0411051103.5ad4565@posting.google.com>

Maurice LING <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote in message news:<418b166f$1 at news.unimelb.edu.au>...
> This may be a dumb thing to ask, but besides the penalty for dynamic 
> typing, is there any other real reasons that Python is slower than Java?

Personally, in practice I haven't found Python to be slower for real
apps, although it's sometimes an order of magnitude slower in
microbenchmarks.  That's probably because a lot of things that could
be slow (e.g. numerical manipulation) are backed by C modules behind
the scenes in Python; it's also very easy to refactor Python code,
which sometimes leads to massive algorithmic improvements.

I will say that I still have a tendency to write some projects in C
when they seem to warrant it (e.g. the mathematics and video portion
of my realtime music visualization system--the UI and database work is
in Python).

(I also found Java's I/O on our platform to be dog-slow back in the
JDK 1.3 days, but I've not used it for anything significant since
then.)


From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Nov 30 16:10:15 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 22:10:15 +0100
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.4 (final)
In-Reply-To: <89cc6e1f.0411301209.5bbd5dcf@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.6913.1101817983.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<89cc6e1f.0411301209.5bbd5dcf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41ace1b5$0$24291$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Chang LI wrote:
> Is there Windows 64-bit edition available?

Yes:

http://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.4/python-2.4.ia64.msi

Regards,
Martin


From ville at spammers.com  Wed Nov 24 08:42:22 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 15:42:22 +0200
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Ice 2.0 released
References: <ketod.45140$K7.3294@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<ted8q0h19c4disktejd9ur7pdgec0h1hl0@4ax.com>
	<s7SdnfFRp_kLGjncRVn-1A@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <du7y8grqs75.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Marc" == Marc Laukien <marc at zeroc.com> writes:

    Marc> Ice is free software, available with full source, and
    Marc> released under the terms of the GNU General Public License
    Marc> (GPL). Commercial licenses are available for customers who
    Marc> wish to use Ice for closed-source software."

So, unlike with currently available Python CORBA implementations (and
implementations for other languages as well), you can't use ICE in a
closed source system without paying a fee. Just wanted to point this
out so that nobody got the wrong idea. This *is* a big deal with
middleware / library that would quite probably be adopted in
commercial systems where the managers will feel uneasy about giving up
the control of their "precious" source.

Too bad, I actually got mildly exited when I read about ICE in the
referenced website.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From alban at magproductions.nl  Tue Nov  9 09:47:38 2004
From: alban at magproductions.nl (Alban Hertroys)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 15:47:38 +0100
Subject: psycopg, transactions and multiple cursors
In-Reply-To: <5G3kd.13457$931.7749@lakeread01>
References: <cmnqpk$2gh$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<cmnroq$raf$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<cmnso7$iih$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cmnud5$uph$1@news4.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<cmnvto$p6l$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cmo239$guj$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<5G3kd.13457$931.7749@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <cmqlaa$86d$1@news4.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Yes, most database connections will generate an implicit transaction the 
> first time a change is made to the database (in the absence of autocommit).

I quoted you on this in the class-file that is (supposedly) going to 
solve my problems.

>> Yes, it does have autoCommit, and thankfully it can be turned off 
>> (which I did, of course).
> 
> It certainly isn't too useful if you occasionally need to roll things 
> back. Structural changes to the database will frequently cause an 
> automatic commit anyway, though - you aren't modifying the database 
> structure at all, I take it?

Oh no, there's rarely a need for that and it tends to get you into trouble.
For example, I know a CMS (not Python related, sorry) that creates 
database tables for classes it uses for various site objects, but it 
apparently doesn't check for the class name being a reserved SQL 
keyword. Oops...

> Nested cursors aren;t nested transcations, though, right?

Indeed. My intention is actually to keep them in the same transaction.

>> A cursor is comparable to an iterator over a result set (where the 
>> cursor fetches one record from the database at a time).
>>
> B e careful that you don;t confuse the DB API curosrs with the cursors 
> you get with DECLARE CURSOR in PL/SQL, for example. The two aren;t 
> necessarily the same thing (and I've always felt that "cursor" was, for 
> that reason, not the best possible terminological choice for the DB API).

PHP uses 'resource identifier' or something similar. I can't say it's 
much clearer, but you won't confuse it with cursors. OTOH, a connection 
in PHP is also a 'resource identifier'.

>> However, if you loop through a result set (with a cursor) and you need 
>> to do a query based on the record that the cursor is currently 
>> positioned at, you can't use the same cursor again for that query, but 
>> need to open a new cursor. That's what I meant by "nesting cursors".
>>
> Bear in mind, though, that it will often be *much* more efficient to do 
> a fetchall() from the cursor and iterate over that result. This 
> typically avoids many round-trips by fetching all the data at once, 
> though it's less practical if data sets become huge.
> 
> There's sometimes a middle ground to be found with repeated calls to 
> fetchmany().
> 
> In that way the curosr can be reused with impunity once the data has 
> been fetched.

True enough, and I don't use nested cursors that way in my Python code. 
It is something I do frequently in PL/SQL, though, so I suppose I used 
that as an example.
In Python the problem is different, I used a bad example.

The reason I use multiple cursors in Python is not so much that I nest 
them, but that they are often in a local scope (in a method, a class, etc.).
As the cursor has to execute a different query in each scope anyway, I 
don't think it really matters whether I go through loops to reuse the 
previous cursor object (risking entering a nested loop unknowingly) or 
create a new one.
The examples I encountered do the same thing, so I suppose it's alright.

> I think we've already agreed that the psycopg cursors aren't DB API 
> compliant anyway, precisely because of the way they handle transactions. 
> An API-compliant library shares transaction state across all cursors 
> generated from the same connection, which (IMHO) gives the flexibility 
> one needs to to handle complex database interactions.

Indeed.

>> The number of questions is increasing...
> 
> Well, the number of answers is, too, but it seems to me you *are* kind 
> of wanting to have your cake and eat it. In previous threads you've 

I'm not familiar with that expression, but I suppose I would change that 
to: "I baked my own cake, and though it doesn't taste as well as I 
intended, I'm trying to eat it anyway".
It means a lot of work if some basic assumptions in a large project turn 
out to be wrong... I was hoping to get it working the way it is, but it 
seems that the "one connection" idea is not possible. Too bad...

> suggested that the psycopg cursor behavior is what you want, but now 
> that very behavior might (?) be biting you.

I am indeed starting to have my doubts about the usefulness of being 
able to commit a cursor. If it doesn't do anything to a transaction, or 
if you can't start a new transaction using a cursor after that commit 
(I'm not yet certain which of the two happens, if it isn't a third 
option), then it seems kind of pointless and confusing.

The possibility suggested (to me at least) that it would be possible to 
do multiple (maybe even parallel) transactions using only one database 
connection, by making the cursors handle the transactions. Alas, it's 
not so.

> Anyway, you couldn't be talking to a better bunch of guys to try and 
> solve this problem. c.l.py is sometimes persistent beyond all reasonable 
> limits. Good luck!

You guys are great indeed! I'm learning things that I thought I knew 
already. And you're quick too, all of my complicated questions so far 
have been answered/solved within a day or so.

But I have to admit, the complicated questions are usually the most fun ;)

Thanks for all the help, it's much appreciated.

Alban.


From ally_burnett at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Nov 26 05:18:43 2004
From: ally_burnett at yahoo.co.uk (alastair)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 02:18:43 -0800
Subject: pyserial with binary data
Message-ID: <23ae7099.0411260218.7ff9119c@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I'm using pyserial to transfer data from PC to another device - the
data is either from an ASCII file or binary data file. Everything
works fine up until I start using files of a particular size on Linux,
around 1.3MB.

When I send the data on windows everything is ok - on Linux I get the
following traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
...
File "/home/pythonCode/loader.py", line 155,
in serialWrite
ser.write(buffer)
File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/serial/serialposix.py", line
288, in write
n = os.write(self.fd, d)
OSError: [Errno 11] Resource temporarily unavailable

In the serialposix.py file the data is being written to the serial
port - I'm guessing that the win32 file is used when running on
windows so might be why things work ok.

Can anyone offer any pointers as to why this should happen ? I first
thought that it might be because I was using binary data, but the same
happens when I tried a large ASCII data file. Any ideas for a
workaround appreciated :)

Many thanks,

Alastair.


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Sat Nov  6 14:51:02 2004
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 19:51:02 GMT
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmgcp1$hpk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncong4u.1tk.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmggel$t2o$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cmggh2$t2o$01$2@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5996.1099739023.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmil81$184$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <GW9jd.20763$K7.6442@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Diez B. Roggisch:

> The name mangling is not the important part - memory layout of the objects
> is. As setting members is made due to offsets to the objects address in
> memory, one has to know exactly in which order declared and possibly
> inherited members are layed out. And as this is not part of the c++
> standard, every compiler does it as it suits it.

   The layout is also modified by various compiler options. I believe that,
with  symbolic debugging information, this feature could be implemented but
it would be a large amount of work.

   Neil




From peter at somewhere.com  Fri Nov 19 15:34:38 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:34:38 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6616.1100893198.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>	<cnlgv2$vc$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6616.1100893198.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3073pnF2rf1v9U1@uni-berlin.de>

Skip Montanaro schrieb:
>     >> My guess is Microsoft hopes to discourage Visual Basic knock-offs.  Claim
>     >> 2 clearly seems to restrict the scope to BASIC.
> 
>     Neal> Doesn't Python (along with probably every other language ever
>     Neal> invented) display prior art here?
> 
> Sure, but maybe there is no such prior art in the BASIC arena.

Isnot is semantically equivalent to the inequality operator which is
some hundred years old. I doubt that this can be an approved patent,
even under the liberal patent US laws.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------



From jeffrey at fro.man  Sun Nov 21 00:29:24 2004
From: jeffrey at fro.man (Jeffrey Froman)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 21:29:24 -0800
Subject: CGI email script
References: <db4aff64.0411201402.66600328@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10q09tmkmh7sp5e@corp.supernews.com>

bojanraic at gmail.com wrote:

> 1. server = smtplib.SMTP('localhost') should return the name of the
> server, right? I don't need to explicitly name it, or do I?

It returns an SMTP object to the machine known by the name "localhost". Most
machines are configured to think of themselves as "localhost".


> 3. What am I doing wrong here? How can I fix the errors and make it
> work?

One way to investigate the error would be to pass the form parameters
directly, rather than through cgi.FieldStorage, running the script from the
command line to see any tracebacks.

  Jeffrey


From bradtilley at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 09:45:22 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 09:45:22 -0500
Subject: Arugument list too long on Linux System
Message-ID: <cm5i62$i30$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

I was using Python to tar up some files each day in a directory by 
calling os.popen("/bin/tar.......).
Everything was working well until the app that generated the files was 
set to generate a file every two seconds for nine hours each day (16,200 
files each day). After this I began getting this error:

"Argument list too long"

This would happen from the script or from the command line invoking tar 
natively. So, I wrote my way around this by using this code:

    tar_it = tarfile.open("%s.tar" %real_time, "w")
    for root, dirs, files in os.walk(path):
       for f in files:
          jpg = os.path.splitext(f)
	 ## If the file has a '.jpg' extension add it to the tar file.
          if jpg[1] == '.jpg':
	    tar_it.add(f)

But, I don't understand why I got this error in the first place. I use a 
rather robust Debian GNU\Linux system (3.2GHz proc, 2GB DDR400 RAM, 15K 
SCSI drives) what causes this type of error? This is not really a Python 
issue, but I thought some knowledgeable users on the list might be 
willing to explain it.

Thanks,

Brad


From insert at spam.here  Fri Nov 26 18:45:05 2004
From: insert at spam.here (Doug Holton)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:45:05 -0600
Subject: Delphi underrated, IDE clues for Python
In-Reply-To: <opsh3oj9ap1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.23.07.09.08.229463@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<zn18e7pm.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.24.07.36.24.700146@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<mailman.6746.1101289610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<vtadq05nljtb7hatf77t3lfvttkajlt2s6@4ax.com>
	<opsh3oj9ap1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
Message-ID: <Jsednd_lBeeeXTrcRVn-ow@comcast.com>

Caleb Hattingh wrote:

> I have been using Delphi 6 at work for several years now (python where 
> I  can squeeze it in!).
> 
> As a programming environment, Delphi is *awesome*.  Sure, it's 
> statically  typed.  Sure, it's proprietry. Sure, it is Windows-based.
> 
> BUT as an IDE, the Delphi environment is amazing.  What I want in a 
> Python  IDE is the Delphi ide, but with python as the language.  The  
> *code-insight*, code/class completion, integrated debugging, integrated  
> help, and *incredibly* fast GUI design is a killer combination.  We  

Yeah, there have been plenty of threads about python gui designers (boa 
constructor, wxdesigner, wxglade, ...).  I don't really like the gui 
designers that make you plan the layout with sizers before you can even 
drag in a new control.
QT Designer for me was the easiest and nicest to use.  However, you have 
to pay if you are using it to develop Windows applications.

We have been working on a plugin that lets you use boo (a python-like 
language for .NET) with the free SharpDevelop IDE (very similar to 
visual studio).
http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/
http://boo.codehaus.org/
Others have already created the initial boo language binding for 
SharpDevelop, so you can edit boo scripts with syntax highlighting and 
build applications with SharpDevelop.  Also there is a built-in 
interpreter window (like python IDLE).  I was planning on adding support 
for SharpDevelop's gui designer, and I think others already have code 
that can be adapted for code completion and debugging in SharpDevelop.

The drawback is that SharpDevelop is Windows-only.  Monodevelop is an 
alternative that works on Linux or Mac, but it has no gui designer yet. 
  Someone apparently is working on one called "stetic".


From jubafre at atlas.ucpel.tche.br  Wed Nov 10 14:11:09 2004
From: jubafre at atlas.ucpel.tche.br (Juliano Freitas)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:11:09 -0200
Subject: get element text in DOM?
Message-ID: <1100113869.1638.9.camel@swdb>

How can i get the text between the <teste> tags??

>>> xml = """<root><teste> texto </teste></root>"""
>>> from xml.dom import minidom
>>> document = minidom.parseString(xml)
>>> document
<xml.dom.minidom.Document instance at 0x4181df0c>
>>> minidom.getElementsByTagName('teste')

>>> element = document.getElementsByTagName('teste')
>>> element
[<DOM Element: teste at 0x418e110c>]
>>> element[0].nodeType
1

Juliano Freitas




From boisgera at isia.cma.fr  Thu Nov 25 03:14:56 2004
From: boisgera at isia.cma.fr (Sebastien Boisgerault)
Date: 25 Nov 2004 00:14:56 -0800
Subject: Operator Overloading
Message-ID: <f6b69c93.0411250014.61315219@posting.google.com>

I wonder if the following quotation from the Python Reference Manual 
(release 2.3.3) about operator overloading is true :

"For example, if a class defines a method named __getitem__(), and x
is
an instance of this class, then x[i] is equivalent to
x.__getitem__(i)"

Consider the following code:

>>> from Numeric import *
>>> a = array([0.5])
>>> a
array([ 0.5])
>>> from Numeric import *
>>> a = array([0.5])
>>> a[0]
0.5

but

>>> a.__getitem__(0)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: __getitem__

I probably understand why the call to __getitem__: there is no
__dict__ attribute in the variable a and not even a __class__
attribute to find what
the class of the variable a is:

>>> a.__dict__
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: __dict__
>>> a.__class__
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: __class__

I didn't know that you could have an instance without a __class__
attribute ... Anyway, if the __class__ attribute was defined, I guess
that the call to a.__getitem__(0) would succeed because "__getitem__"
belongs to the __dict__
of the type of a.

>>> "__getitem__" in type(a).__dict__
True

But then, why does the call to a[0] succeed ? It should be exactly
equivalent
to a.__getitem__[0], right ?


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Nov 25 10:01:24 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 16:01:24 +0100
Subject: Replacing words from strings except  'and' / 'or' / 'and not'
References: <mailman.6781.1101393976.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <co4s42$mkb$04$1@news.t-online.com>


import sets
KEYWORDS = sets.Set(['and', 'or', 'not'])

query = "test and testing and not perl or testit or example"

def decorate(w):
    if w in KEYWORDS:
        return w
    return "*%s*" % w

query = " ".join([decorate(w.strip()) for w in query.split()])

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Nov 10 20:15:16 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:15:16 -0500
Subject: web hosting with Python
In-Reply-To: <3cccb1d8.0411101416.690960c3@posting.google.com>
References: <3cccb1d8.0411101416.690960c3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <t8zkd.123$N95.85@lakeread01>

MJR wrote:

> Hi,
> anybody could recommend web hosting company which offer professional
> reseller package with Python, preferable located in Europe?

*The* place to start would be http://www.python.org/moin/PythonHosting

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Nov  3 10:35:02 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 10:35:02 -0500
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
In-Reply-To: <TbadndtdMqGHaBXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
References: <cthoeigtdun.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
	<slrncohmqk.n07.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<TfOdna4IePwZexXcRVn-pA@powergate.ca>
	<TbadndhdMqHzaRXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
	<TbadndtdMqGHaBXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <6_qdnQZOZ_YYZRXcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> So the exception managed to get to the new thread, even though
> I called SetAsyncExc *before* the thread was even created.
> 
> Now _that's_ what I call "asynchronous". ;-)

Actually, it's what you call pilot error.  I was retrieving
threading._get_ident() in the thread initializer *before*
the thread was even started... stupid pilot.

Here's the final working version:

 >>> class T(threading.Thread):
...   def __init__(self):
...    threading.Thread.__init__(self)
...    self.stopped = False
...    self.start()
...   def run(self):
...    self.id = threading._get_ident()
...    try:
...      while not self.stopped:
...         time.sleep(0.1)
...    except:
...      print 'thread terminated!'
...
 >>> t = T()
 >>> t
<T(Thread-7, started)>
 >>> asyncexc = ctypes.pythonapi.PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc
 >>> exc = ctypes.py_object(ValueError)
 >>> asyncexc(t.id, exc)
1
 >>> thread terminated!

 >>> t
<T(Thread-7, stopped)>


-Peter


From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Fri Nov  5 11:57:21 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 08:57:21 -0800
Subject: cherrypy/cheetah vs twisted/nevow
References: <slrncoc0tr.1tc7.charlotte@xs2.xs4all.nl>	<mailman.5766.1099319968.5135.python-list@python.org>	<418818ca$0$19452$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5867.1099489510.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0411050857.6dfe11bd@posting.google.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.5867.1099489510.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 00:39:59 +0100, bruno modulix <onurb at xiludom.gro> wrote
> :
> > Carlos Ribeiro a  crit :
> > (snip)
> > > I'm yet to study nevow, but I'm getting more and more interested. I
> > > have my own approach to separation; I use to think about a third
> > > entity, "structure", as being independent from code & ui. The
> > > structure is the common part; it's the "glue" between ui and code; and
> > > it's the first part to be designed.
> > 
> > Err... I may have missed something obvious, but doesn't this smells like
> > a good old MVC ?-)
> 
> In a way, you're right. The problem is that none of the templating
> models that I know of completely separates the 'M' from the 'V'.

Plenty of templating systems allow Model-View separation. Not all
*enforce* it, but this is a matter of philosophy [1], not an indicator
that a template system is good or bad.

Some templating systems (e.g. Nevow.Renderer, PyMeld and HMTLTemplate)
additionally separate presentation logic from markup via an approach
that's strongly reminiscent of Apple-style MVC, where the View layer
consists purely of GUI widget/template node instances and the
Controller layer contains code for (1) manipulating these objects and
(2) connecting to the Model layer.

HTH

has

--

[1] i.e. just an excuse for BDSM freaks and godless liberal Lispers to
have a good rammy now and again. Any competent developer will
automatically build a well-layered system, and no amount of nannying
is going to save an incompetent developer from themselves.


From hgk at et.uni-magdeburg.de  Thu Nov 11 10:33:27 2004
From: hgk at et.uni-magdeburg.de (Hans Georg Krauthaeuser)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:33:27 +0100
Subject: pickle: huge memory consumption *during* pickling
Message-ID: <cn00o5$r0j$1@fuerst.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>

Dear all,

I have a long running application (electromagnetic compatibility 
measurements in mode-stirred chambers over GPIB) that use pickle 
(cPickle) to autosave a class instance with all the measured data from 
time to time.

At the beginning, pickling is quite fast but when the data becomes more 
and more pickling slows down rapidly.

Today morning we reached the situation that it took 6 hours to pickle 
the class instance. The pickle file was than approx. 92 MB (this is ok). 
During pickling the memory consuption of the python proccess was up to 
450 MB (512 MB RAM -> machine was swapping all the time).

My class use data types taken from a c++ class via swig. Don't know if 
that is important...

My feeling is that I'm doing something wrong. But my python knowlegde is 
not so deep to see what that is.

Is there an other way to perform an autosave of an class instance? Shelve?

System: python 2.3.4, Win XP, 1.X GHz class PC, 512 MB ram

Best redards
Hans Georg


From marc at zeroc.com  Tue Nov 30 15:44:35 2004
From: marc at zeroc.com (Marc Laukien)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:44:35 -0500
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Ice 2.0 released
In-Reply-To: <22868227.0411301123.c18dec9@posting.google.com>
References: <ketod.45140$K7.3294@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<ted8q0h19c4disktejd9ur7pdgec0h1hl0@4ax.com>
	<s7SdnfFRp_kLGjncRVn-1A@speakeasy.net>
	<22868227.0411300634.1d333921@posting.google.com>
	<0YidnREmZ8xECDHcRVn-oA@speakeasy.net>
	<22868227.0411301123.c18dec9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <edOdnSWRpo9RRjHcRVn-vQ@speakeasy.net>

> Consider the *hypothetical* situation where an individual or a group
> of people re-write large portions of Ice.  This could enhance the
> value of Ice (obviously to some, if not all), or this could conflict
> with the ideologies of Ice (again, not in everyone's point of view). 
> How will ZeroC react to this?

Everybody can enhance or modify Ice, we don't have any problems with 
this whatsoever. The GPL explicitly allows you to do so. However, this 
does not mean that we have to take over these changes or additions into 
our Ice distribution. In many cases, this would also not be necessary, 
as the most likely contribution would be in form of plug-ins or services.

As an aside, you are completely free to use any license, if you write 
your own implementation of the Ice protocol or specification language. 
Neither the protocol nor the specification language are patented. So 
while our own implementation is available under GPL or a commercial 
license only, you could write a new implementation under a license of 
your choosing. We don't have any problems with this either. In fact, we 
encourage it, otherwise we wouldn't have documented our protocol so 
carefully.

> 
> I believe whichever road you take, ZeroC is going to find itself in
> problems.  If ZeroC merges the changes made by this/these person(s),
> how can ZeroC now sell it under a commercial license, as closed source
> (violation of GPL)?  If you refuse to merge the changes, you have just
> given them a strong impetus to fork.  History shows XEmacs and EGCS as
> two such examples.

I don't see any problems. If we merge a contribution into our Ice 
distribution, then we need to reach an agreement with the contributor as 
to how we can handle non-GPL licenses. If no agreement is reached, then 
we cannot merge this contribution into our Ice distribution.

> 
> Guess what I am primarily interested in finding out is rooted in what
> I said earlier:
> 
> 
>>>Interesting to see this blend of GPL and an alternative for
>>>closed-source software.
> 
> 
> What were the ideas behind going the GPL way?  How did ZeroC plan on
> benefiting from it?  Were there any qualms within ZeroC in going GPL?

The idea is simple: Ice should be free for open-source applications, but 
if somebody wants to use Ice for a closed-source application, then we 
want a fair share of the revenue. So far this works quite well :)

No, there were no qualms within ZeroC with using the GPL, we all pretty 
much agreed from the start that this is a reasonable licensing model.

Note that we are not the only one who use such a dual-licensing scheme. 
For example, if you want to use Berkeley DB (an excellent embedded 
database) for a closed-source project, then you also have to buy a 
commercial license. (They don't use GPL as their open-source license, 
but something that is similar to the GPL.)

> 
> Note that I am not saying GPL and commercial software don't go
> together (I do believe though that LGPL and commercial software don't
> go together).  I am well aware of Free software being "Free speech,
> not free beer".
> 
> What if you did not provide Ice as a free download, but a price based
> on your current licensing policy(*).  However, the download would give
> one the complete source, and the freedom to modify and redistribute it
> (at whatever price so long as the complete source code with the GPL
> notice is released).
> (*):  All of this is hypothetical.  Am not making a business
> proposition here.

I'm not sure I understand what you are suggesting. You want us to charge 
for a GPL download? I don't think this makes sense, a GPL download 
should be free.

> 
> You do not, because that would discourage Ice from becoming
> ubiquitous, from paving way for becoming a potential de-facto
> standard.
> 
> Then, why not simply advertise Ice as being commercial (with unlimited
> free trial plus source code)?  Doing so, would get you the extensive
> peer review that you are currently benefitting from.  What do you gain
> by going GPL?  The freedom to modify and/or redistribute is
> (apparently) pretty restricted anyway.

We are quite happy with our licensing model, and many of our users use 
Ice under GPL. I neither see the need to restrict nor to loosen our 
licensing terms in any way.

> 
> 
>>>PS:  Please feel free to set FU-Ts as appropriate.
>>
>>What are FU-Ts?
>>
> 
> 
> "Follow-up To:".  Most news clients will allow sending a post to
> multiple groups, restricting any possible responses to certain groups
> alone.  A poster who is replying can over-ride it, of course.

Thanks for the explanation. I learn something new every day :)

-- Marc


From benji at benjiyork.com  Fri Nov  5 23:57:22 2004
From: benji at benjiyork.com (Benji York)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 22:57:22 -0600
Subject: How come wxPython isn't in the standard library?
In-Reply-To: <740c3aec041105174020578272@mail.gmail.com>
References: <740c3aec041105174020578272@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <418C59B2.1020001@benjiyork.com>

BJ?rn Lindqvist wrote:
> IMHO, having a good GUI library in the stdlib would make distributing
> GUI apps much easier.

It would, but I suspect one (of the many) reasons this won't happen any
time soon is that Python and wxPython have very different release
schedules.  It wouldn't do for major advances in wxPython to have to
wait for another release of Python.

> Windows users (and many Linux users) doesn't like searching the net 
> to find and download lots of dependancies.

This is one of the reasons I'd like to see an automated install tool
available for Python.  I've been using Gentoo for a while now and really
like their "emerge" tool.  It quickly installs packages with full
dependency handling.  It's even written in Python!
-- 
Benji York
benji at benjiyork.com



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Nov 17 13:37:15 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:37:15 -0800
Subject: Parallel processing
In-Reply-To: <5c882bb5.0411170239.2e5f61e2@posting.google.com>
References: <5c882bb5.0411170239.2e5f61e2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041117102848.F998.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile) wrote:
> 
> Hello, this is a small tutorial page about NESL, an easy parallel
> programming language:
> http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~scandal/nesl/tutorial2.html
> 
> Its syntax shares some similarities with python one, for example:
> 
> function factorial(n) =
>   if (n <= 1) then 1
>   else n*factorial(n-1);
> 
> {factorial(i) : i in [3, 1, 7]};
> 
> This computes "in parallel, for each i in the sequence [3, 1, 7],
> factorial i"
> 
> 
> {sum(a) : a in [[2,3], [8,3,9], [7]]};
> 
> sum of sequences is already a parallel operation, so this is a nested
> parallelism example.

The look of a language has nothing to do with its parallelizability.  It
just so happens that the designers of NESL had a similar language design
ideas as the designers of Python.


> So it seems to me that Python can be already fit to be interpreted in
> parallel, for multicore CPUs, Playstation Cell-like processors, etc.
> (few things have to be changed/added in the syntax to make it fit for
> parallelism).

There are various other reasons why Python is not as parallelizable as
you would think.  Among them is the semantics of scoping, and whether
there is shared or unshared scope among the processors/nodes.  If shared,
then any operation that could change scopes would need to be distributed
(ick), or if unshared, then you are basically looking at an
automatically distributed tuplespace (LINDA).  It gets even uglier with
certain kinds of generators.

Regardless of which one is the case, heavy modifications to Python would
necessarily need to be done in order to make them happen.


 - Josiah



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Nov 30 10:48:51 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:48:51 -0500
Subject: Struggling with struct.unpack() and "p" format specifier
In-Reply-To: <6b26402d.0411300657.d575d75@posting.google.com>
References: <6b26402d.0411300657.d575d75@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <coi4o4$8in$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Geoffrey wrote:
> As I mentioned, I can parse the string and read it with multiple
> statements, I am just looking for a more efficient solution.

This looks like about the best you can do, using the information
from Tim's reply:

 >>> buf = '\0\0\xb9\x02\x13EXCLUDE_CREDIT_CARD'
 >>> import struct
 >>> x = struct.unpack('>xxBB%sp' % (ord(buf[4])+1), buf)
 >>> x
(185, 2, 'EXCLUDE_CREDIT_CARD')

If you wanted to avoid hard-coding the 4, you would
be most correct to do this:

header = '>xxBB'
lenIndex = struct.calcsize(header)
x = struct.unpack('%s%dp' % (header, ord(buf[lenIndex])+1), buf)

... though that doesn't exactly make it all that readable.

-Peter


From br_y at yahoo.de  Mon Nov 22 05:56:26 2004
From: br_y at yahoo.de (Birgit Rahm)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:56:26 +0100
Subject: [Beginner] delete items of [] also from memory
References: <cns50t$5ip$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<41a1a1da$0$8190$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <cnsgm1$u3f$01$1@news.t-online.com>

>  But...  And if you try ?
>
I tryed A = [].
And  I think thats why my RAM is filling up. But I dont know if this is the
problem. So I asked.
Is del A[0:] the better or an equal solution?
Birgit

>




From austin at maxtronic.com.tw  Fri Nov 12 01:15:54 2004
From: austin at maxtronic.com.tw (Austin)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 14:15:54 +0800
Subject: socket.error:(13,'Permission deied')
References: <mailman.6260.1100182796.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41945511$1@news.seeder.net>

"Jp Calderone" <exarkun at divmod.com> ???g???l???s?D
:mailman.6260.1100182796.5135.python-list at python.org...
> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:08:41 +0800, "Austin" <austin at maxtronic.com.tw>
wrote:
> >........................
> > data = ....
> > self.broadcast_ip = 255.255.255.255
> >
> > UDPSock.sendto(data,(self.broadcast_ip,36))
> > .........................
> >
> >
> > These codes run on Windows without errors and warnings.
> > But i excute that on Fedora Core 2, it shows the error
> > "socket.error:(13,'Permission deied')"
> > i try to disable the firewall and become a root but it doesn't work,
either.
> >
> > Does anyone have any suggestions ?
> >
>
>   Try calling this first:
>
>     UDPSock.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_BROADCAST, 1)
>
>   Jp


now i use
self.server = BaseHTTPServer.HTTPServer(( '', self.port ),ServerHandler)
on fedora Core 2
it shows permission denied, too.
What could i do?




From mwm at mired.org  Sun Nov 14 19:58:50 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 18:58:50 -0600
Subject: .pyc files...
References: <1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.6345.1100420943.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpel29.hfd.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<2mqfp0tuuutj01njq2400trfhd4vtbv81m@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <x7wtwolygl.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> writes:

> On 14 Nov 2004 13:30:38 GMT, rumours say that Nick Craig-Wood
> <nick at craig-wood.com> might have written:
>
>>This *is* bullet proof though
>>
>>  find . -name '*.pyc' -print0 | xargs -0 rm -f
>>
>>And if you don't want an error when there aren't any files
>>
>>  find . -name '*.pyc' -print0 | xargs -0r rm -f
>>
>>End unix sysadmin lecture ;-)
>
> Minor detail: these are the GNU versions of 'find' and 'xargs' in the
> above example; the traditional UNIX ones do not have the -print0 and -0
> options, respectively.

Hmm. My copy of the find and xargs sources which have those features
both have University of California copyrights on them.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From soulkiller at teleline.es  Sun Nov  7 17:06:37 2004
From: soulkiller at teleline.es (soul)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 23:06:37 +0100
Subject: Move mouse cursor to middle of the aplication window
Message-ID: <1099865197.2309.5.camel@Zeus>

I'm making a simple 3D engine writen in pyOpengl.I need to put the
cursor in the middle of a aplication window and ocult it. How i can do
this?

Thanks a lot
Soul


From sw at wordtech-software.com  Fri Nov 19 14:30:37 2004
From: sw at wordtech-software.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:30:37 -0500
Subject: ANN: PyQt-Mac binary installer, 11-2004-fix, available
In-Reply-To: <XMrnd.3010$EM3.2501@fe37.usenetserver.com>
References: <XMrnd.3010$EM3.2501@fe37.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <yRrnd.3011$EM3.670@fe37.usenetserver.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Correction: the download link is
http://www.wordtech-software.com/pyqt-mac.html



Kevin Walzer wrote:

| A new verison of the PyQt-Mac binary installer  is available. This
| version, PyQt-Mac-11-2004-fix, includes a rebuilt version of Qt 3.3.3
| with threading support, and adds symlinks to Qt libraries in /usr/lib/
| (required by Qt) and /usr/local/lib (required by PyQt). This should
| address problems with installation that some users were previously
| reported. This package also includes the Eric 3 IDE, written in PyQt and
| packaged in a Mac application bundle.
|
| For more information and a download link, please see
| http://www.wordtech-software.com/pyqt-html .
|
| A mailing list for PyQt-Mac has also been established. To join the
| mailing list, see
| http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pyqt-mac-list .
|

- --
Kevin Walzer, PhD
WordTech Software--Open Source Applications and Packages for OS X
http://www.wordtech-software.com
http://www.smallbizmac.com
http://www.kevin-walzer.com
mailto:sw at wordtech-software.com
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From crjensen at gmail.com  Sat Nov 27 16:15:50 2004
From: crjensen at gmail.com (Chris)
Date: 27 Nov 2004 13:15:50 -0800
Subject: win32 problem with WM_COPYDATA
References: <b8c06209.0411261548.46495280@posting.google.com>
	<OLUpd.49878$K7.14436@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <b8c06209.0411271315.760bfbfd@posting.google.com>

Yea... I changed it to Qserver while posting, but forgot to do both
spots.  But the array and struct thing worked, so its all going now. 
Thanks a bunch.  Any ideas about the Unregistering error?

"Neil Hodgson" <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:<OLUpd.49878$K7.14436 at news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> Chris:
> 
> >         wc.lpszClassName = "QServer"
> > ...
> >             "QuoteServer App",
> > ...
> >     wnd = win32gui.FindWindow("QuoteServer", None)
> 
>    Using the same name helps.
> 
> > ...
> >     buff = struct.pack('11s', "XXXXX: YYYY")
> >     print win32gui.SendMessage(wnd, win32con.WM_COPYDATA, 0, buff)
> 
>    Copydata does not take an arbitrary pointer, it requires a correctly
> initialized COPYDATASTRUCT. From a Mark Hammond post:
> 
> import struct, array
> int_buffer = array.array("L", [0])
> char_buffer = array.array("c", "the string data")
> int_buffer_address = int_buffer.buffer_info()[0]
> char_buffer_address, char_buffer_size = char_buffer.buffer_info
> copy_struct = struct.pack("pLp",  # dword *, dword, char *
>                            int_buffer_address,
>                            char_buffer_size, char_buffer_address)
> # find target_hwnd somehow.
> win32gui.SendMessage(w, WM_COPYDATA, target_hwnd, copy_struct)
> 
>    Neil


From programmer.py at gmail.com  Thu Nov 11 14:36:41 2004
From: programmer.py at gmail.com (Jaime Wyant)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:36:41 -0600
Subject: I don't quite get this "string".find()
Message-ID: <d52c72d2041111113644284154@mail.gmail.com>

Will someone explain this to me?

>>> "test".find("")
0

Why is the empty string found at position 0?

Thanks!
jw


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Thu Nov 18 10:32:14 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:32:14 -0000
Subject: SQL Server stored prcedures with output parameters
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434BD3@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

[Steve Holden]

| I'm probably going to have to work around it for now by 
| duplicating the 
| SQL, but that has bad maintenance problems long term.

More-or-less echoing what I see Aahz has written in
another thread: could you not write wrapper Procs which
called the client procs and then SELECTed out the OUTPUT
params?

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
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From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Thu Nov 25 14:35:42 2004
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe Cavalaria)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 20:35:42 +0100
Subject: protocols, inheritance and polymorphism
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>
	<Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<YWKod.137814$HA.44609@attbi_s01>
	<donn-F6A9D8.11153623112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<tqadnT2kAIXJEj7cRVn-hA@rogers.com>
	<donn-F39B72.13183123112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<mqedndyH_YCYUT7cRVn-uQ@rogers.com>
	<donn-D778C1.17100223112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<786dnYZkrq-ieT7cRVn-tw@rogers.com> <1101273995.954137@yasure>
	<s4qdnUDCJoJ9vjncRVn-hA@rogers.com>
	<tyfhdnefhcf.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <41a6340f$0$307$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:

> "Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> writes:
> 
>> Can you elaborate on problems that static languages have with OOP?
> 
> They make dynamic polymorphism impossible.
> 
> Which is why most object-oriented C++ programs are dynamically typed;
> only the programmer is burdened with the work that the mostly-absent
> dynamic type system should be doing.
> 
> Dynamic polymorphism crucially requires knowledge of the *run-time*
> (dynamic) type of objects, in order to be able to dispatch to the
> correct method. In C++ you turn your classes into dynamically typed
> ones with the "virtual" keyword, which introduces a vtable and
> run-time type identification (RTTI). As long as you are only
> interested in calling methods which are declared in some base class,
> this dynamic type systems looks almost satisfactory. As soon as you
> want to use a method present in the subclass but not in the
> superclass, it is up to you to faff around with dynamic_cast and
> checking of the resulting pointer; all stuff which a dynamic type
> system should be doing for you, but C++ makes you do yourself because
> it pretends that your programs are statically typed when, in fact,
> they are dynamically typed.
If your programs need that much dynamic_cast to work, then your programs are
bad. Besides, it's easy to do a 'safe' dynamic_cast, just assert that the
pointer you get isn't 0 after the cast.


From bingham at cenix-bioscience.com  Wed Nov 24 07:22:49 2004
From: bingham at cenix-bioscience.com (Aaron Bingham)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 13:22:49 +0100
Subject: 64-bit platform
In-Reply-To: <7jobv44r.fsf@python.net>
References: <7jobv44r.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <41A47D19.7050205@cenix-bioscience.com>

Thomas Heller wrote:

>Can some kind soul please tell me what the output of this little script
>on a 64-bit Linux platform is:
>
>import struct
>print map(struct.calcsize, "bhilqP")
>  
>
For me:

 >>> import struct
 >>> print map(struct.calcsize, "bhilqP")
[1, 2, 4, 8, 8, 8]

Aaron



From timr at probo.com  Thu Nov 25 23:11:47 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 20:11:47 -0800
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.23.07.09.08.229463@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<zn18e7pm.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.24.07.36.24.700146@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<mailman.6746.1101289610.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vtadq05nljtb7hatf77t3lfvttkajlt2s6@4ax.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I think that Delphi is *so* underated when it comes to language &
>framework design... Delphi suffered from a couple of problems; first,
>it was Pascal's child, and not C; also, because it was a proprietary
>project, owned by a single company.
>
>For some reason, being a Pascal descendant was regarded as a big "no"
>by a huge part of the industry, not to mention academia, that was at
>that time fascinated with the prospect of C++. I wonder what could
>have happened if Delphi (maybe with another name -- P++ anyone?) was
>widely adopted instead of C++ for big projects...

You are absolutely correct.  I have never understood the industry prejudice
against Delphi.  The code is just as efficient as the typical C compiler.
GUI design in the IDE has always been easier in Delphi than in Visual
Studio.  VCL is easier to understand than MFC
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From andy at removethis.coolioh.com  Sun Nov  7 09:23:05 2004
From: andy at removethis.coolioh.com (Andy)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 09:23:05 -0500
Subject: AX.25 modules for python?
Message-ID: <qZydnYWNq5CBrRPcRVn-hQ@comcast.com>

I am considering writing some Linux based client applications for amateur
radio in python as a learning exercise however, I have not been able to
find ax.25 python modules.  Can anyone point me to work that has already
been done in this area?  The only option I have found so far is to use SWIG
and build my own wrappers for the ax.25 modules, but that seems beyond my
current level of expertise :-)

I have had success with python server applications using ax25d, stdin, and
stdout, but examples of python ax.25 server applications would also be
welcomed.

Thanks in Advance

Andy, K3JSE


From eric at ericwalstad.com  Thu Nov  4 12:59:49 2004
From: eric at ericwalstad.com (Eric Walstad)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 17:59:49 GMT
Subject: Python CGI - Accepting Input, Invoking Another Process,
	Ending CGI
References: <99351542.0411030837.beea2c7@posting.google.com>
	<cmb3nl$sj4$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<99351542.0411040836.225c77ba@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <p6uid.17757$6q2.13598@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

LarsenMTL wrote:

> "Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote in message
> news:<cmb3nl$sj4$00$1 at news.t-online.com>...
>> > Based on previous suggestions from this group, I'm attempting to write
>> > a python CGI that takes input from an HTML form, invokes a second
>> > python script using this input, tells the user that their process has
>> > started, ends the cgi output and later emails the results of the
>> > invoked script.
>> > 
>> > My problem is that no mater how I invoke the 2nd script (spawnlp with
>> > P_NOWAIT, system with &, etc..) the CGI caller continues to run until
>> > it finishes.  If you press the stop button or close the browser
>> > certain portions of the 2nd script finish but not all of it.  In
>> > paticular the 2nd script uses teTex (invoked by os.system) to process
>> > some tex files, this always errors out if the browser is closed or
>> > stopped.
>> 
>> Did you try to daemonize your script? That will decouple it from the
>> running
>> process, so maybe that helps. In the  aspn cookbook there is a good
>> recipe for daemonizing.
> 
> Thanks.  I think I got it.  Looking at that recipe hinted me at the
> idea that I need to close or redirect stdin, stdout and stderr.  Some
> searches around here confirmed that.
> 
> Cheers.
Hi Mark,

Would you mind posting a snippet of how you solved the problem?  I'd
appreciate seeing what you did.

Thanks,

Eric.
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From jerf at jerf.org  Tue Nov 16 18:05:58 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:05:58 -0500
Subject: determining the number of output arguments
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<cndbi7$hrd$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.16.23.05.58.264322@jerf.org>

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:58:52 +0100, Peter Otten wrote:
> You could yield Indent/Dedent (possibly the same class) instances whenever
> the level changes - provided that the length of sequences of nodes with the
> same depth does not approach one.

In this case, the depth of the node is multiplied by some indentation
parameter, or some similar operation, and it occurs in three or places, so
the duplication of the 

if token == INDENT:
	depth += 1
elif token == DEDENT:
	depth -= 1
if depth == 0:
	abort or something

three or four times was starting to smell itself.



From tim.peters at gmail.com  Thu Nov 11 19:51:33 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:51:33 -0500
Subject: crc32 to be used as hash
In-Reply-To: <slrncp7skp.cvc.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
References: <slrncp7e3j.bdf.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<mailman.6276.1100202639.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncp7skp.cvc.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <1f7befae04111116511a04be78@mail.gmail.com>

[Weiguang Shi]
> The literature I was refering to includes:
> 
> . R. Jain, A Comparison of Hashing Schemes for Address Lookup in
>  Computer Networks, IEEE Trans. on Communications, 1992, v40, n3.
> 
> . Z. Cao, Z. Wang, E. Zegura, Performance of Hashing-based Schemes for
>  Internet Load Balancing, IEEE INFOCOM 2000, p332-341.

So they're doing hashing of "small" address-related inputs, squashing
them down a lot, and using a variety of different 32- and 16-bit CRC
algorithms.  In one case, they found that simply xor'ing fields
together did very well -- which implies that they weren't facing a
very demanding problem.

There's no reason to suppose, a priori, that's got much to do with the
32-bit hash distribution of strings-in-email PythonLabs tested.

Since you haven't said what it is you're trying to hash, it's anyone's
guess how relevant what anyone has done to what you want to do.  So
the thing for you to do is to write a little app and *try* different
ways.  Details can matter, a lot.

For example, we didn't run any tests on subfields of 32-bit hashes,
and some bits may be "more random" than others.  One of the papers you
cited found that it wasn't so in what they were testing.  But here's
an example showing that's not a reliable conclusion in general:

"""
def drive():
    from binascii import crc32
    mask = 0x1fffff
    d = {}
    count = 0
    bytes = map(chr, range(256))
    for i in bytes[-32:]:
        for j in bytes:
            prefix = i+j
            count += len(bytes)
            for k in bytes:
                d[crc32(prefix + k) & mask] = 1
    print mask+1, "bins", count, "balls", len(d), "occupied"

drive()
"""

This is the output:

2097152 bins 2097152 balls 1048576 occupied

Amazingly enough, crc32 on this data, and taking the last 21 bits,
managed to miss half the bins entirely.  For a truly random hash
yielding 21 bits, the expected # of occupied bins is about 1325653
when tossing 2**21 balls into 2**21 buckets, with a standard deviation
of about 452.  So this is more than 600 sdevs "worse than random".

If we replace crc32 with hash, the output changes to

2097152 bins 2097152 balls 1490432 occupied

which is a few hundred sdevs "better than random".  The reason
Python's hash can be "better than random" for bin problems is
explained in the comments in dictobject.c -- some of the internal hash
functions are specifically trying to give better-than-random collision
statistics when fed dense inputs, because hashing is used in Python
mostly to drive dict lookups.

This isn't 100% reliable either, though, and you can fiddle the above
to find subfields and inputs where crc32 does better than the builtin
hash.  For example, in the above, if the hash is shifted right by 11
before taking the last 21 bits, the builtin hash does horribly,
filling only 8K bins, but crc32 doesn't do any worse then than it did
before.


From klapotec at chello.at  Fri Nov  5 07:00:20 2004
From: klapotec at chello.at (Christopher Koppler)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 12:00:20 GMT
Subject: Python for 8/16 Bit MSDOS ( 486 / 586 / K5 / K6/ Beck-IPC )
	processors.
References: <418B6158.3C7BD9B1@iee.lu>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.05.12.00.20.486876@chello.at>

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 12:17:44 +0100, Manfred Schwab wrote:

> Hi there,
> which versions of python are usable under MS-DOS 5.0 oder 6.22 or Dr.
> DOS.
> 
> I want to use it under a industrial environment to collect measuring
> data like temperature, moist and signalconditions with a Beck industrial
> PC. Did somebody try this already ? Is there a certain URL where i can
> get further information.
> 

Look here: http://www.python.org/download/download_windows.html
The last link is a Python port for DOS.

-- 
Christopher



From carribeiro at gmail.com  Tue Nov 16 14:27:55 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:27:55 -0200
Subject: adaptation
In-Reply-To: <1gncxxb.10h9cii1kmx5jN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<1gnbf8z.mirt8m687hvbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6397.1100570319.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnc2jt.uw5i19s61aieN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6409.1100591151.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gncdvv.1y2msbz1yc1gaeN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cxomd.93401$HA.21918@attbi_s01> <419A16CE.3050907@bellsouth.net>
	<mailman.6432.1100624085.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gncxxb.10h9cii1kmx5jN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041116112723f77c7f@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:45:29 +0100, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
>    ...
> > Well, my name is not Alex, and my answer will probably fall short of a
> > comprehensive definition :-) But let's see if I can help here...
> 
> I think you did a great job!  May I recommend some further reading...:
> 
> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0246.html
> http://www.aleax.it/os04_pydp.pdf
> http://peak.telecommunity.com/protocol_ref/module-protocols.html
> 
> 
> > Adaptation is the act of taking one object and making it conform to a
> > given protocol (or interface). Adaptation is the key to make dynamic
> > code that takes parameters from arbitrary types work in a safe, well
> > behaved way.
> 
> Hear, hear!
> 
> > The basic concept underlying adaptation is the "protocol", also called
> > "interface" in some implementations. For all purposes of this
> > discussion, and for simplicity reasons, we can safely assume that
> > protocols and interfaces are equivalent.
> 
> Right, but, for the curious...: "Interface" mostly describes a certain
> set of methods and their signatures; "Protocol" adds semantics and
> pragmatics -- some level of conceptualization of what the methods _do_
> and constraints on how they are used (e.g. "after calling .close(), no
> other method can ever be called on the object any more").  This is a
> reasonably popular use of the words in question, though far from
> universal.

Nice summary of the difference. 
 
> > A protocol is a set of primitives that is supported by a given object.
> > For example: the iterator protocol defines the following primitives:
> > __iter__ and next() (as documented in
> > http://docs.python.org/lib/typeiter.html). Any object from any class
> > that implement these methods, regardless of its ancestors, is said to
> > support the iterator protocol.
> 
> ...if the semantics and pragmatics are also respected, e.g.:
>     x.__iter__() is x
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Any object that supports the iterator protocol can be used whenever an
> > iterable is acceptable. This includes for loops and list
> > comprehensions. The biggest advantage of adaptation comes when one
> > realize how flexible this design is, specially when compared with
> > old-style type checking. In a old-style type checking environment,
> > parameters to a given routine must conform to the declared type of the
> > arguments. For iterators, it would mean that only objects descending
> > from some abstract class (let's say, "Iterable") would be accepted.
> > Now, even with multiple inheritance, this design is severely limited.
> 
> In old-style Python, inheritance isn't really the issue (except for
> exceptions, where inheritance does matter).  Rather, a protocol is
> defined by a given set of methods.
> 
> An iterable is an object supplying a special method __iter__ which,
> called without arguments, returns an iterator (any object which respects
> the iterator protocol).  A sequence besides being iterable supports
> __len__, AND __getitem__ with integer and slice arguments, and there is
> a rich semantic and pragmatic web of mutual constraints between behavior
> of __getitem__ and __len__ and iteration.  A mutable sequence is a
> sequence which also supports __setitem__ (again with specific
> constraints wrt __getitem__, __len__...) and is also supposed to expose
> a rich set of other methods such as pop, append, extend, etc, etc.
> 
> This IS great BUT limited by what the LANGUAGE designer(s) sanction(s)
> as 'blessed protocols'.  There are quite a few, but they're never enough
> to cover the needs of an application or field of applications, of
> course.  With protocols based on certain special methods, you have a
> great concept which however is not really extensible, nor flexible
> enough to help the authors of large frameworks and applications.
> 
> Framework authors do define new protocols, of course -- they can't help
> doing that.  "X must be an object supplying methods 'foo' and 'bar' with
> the following constraints...:".  This is OK for somebody who's writing
> an application using just one framework -- they can code their classes
> to the framework's specifications.
> 
> The problem comes in when you're writing an application that uses two or
> more frameworks... the two frameworks likely haven't heard of each
> other... one wants objects supplying 'foo' and 'bar, the other supplies
> objects supplying 'oof' and 'rab' instead, with subtly different
> semantics and pragmatics.  So, what do you do then?  You write adapters:
> wrappers over Y with its oof and rab which provide an X with its foo and
> bar.  Python is _great_ at that kind of job!
> 
> But, who applies the adapters, where, when?  Well, unless we do get PEP
> 246 in... _you_, the application writer, are the only one who can.
> You'd like to spend your time developing your application, with
> frameworks to relieve you from some parts of the job, but to do that you
> also need to develop adapters _and_ tediously, boilerplatishly, apply
> them to every object from one framework that's going over to the other,
> etc.  Basically, you risk ending up with very *thick glue* (cfr Eric
> Raymond's excellent "The Art of Unix Programming", great book also
> available online for free) -- throughout your application, there will be
> knowledge about the details of all frameworks you're using, spread in
> thick layers of glue.
>
> > Now, back to Python world. In many situations, there is no need for
> > adaptation; the object itself supports the protocol, and can be
> > supplied directly. But there are situations when the object itself
> > can't be immediately used; it has to be adapted, or prepared, to
> > support the protocol. Another situation is when an object is passed to
> > a routine that *doesn't* support the required protocol; this is an
> > error, that can be catched by the adapt() framework in a superficially
> > similar but fundamentally different approach from type checking (and
> > that's whats Alex has been pointing out).
> 
> Oh yes, VERY different.  Let me try an analogy...
> 
> A policeman's job is to ensure you respect the law.  He does that by
> trying to catch you violating the law, and punishing you for that.
> 
> A civics teacher's job is to ensure you respect the law.  He does that
> by teaching you the law, explaining its rationale, engaging you in
> discussion to find instances where your spontaneous behavior might
> violate the law, and working out together with you how to adapt your
> behavior and your instincts so that the law gets respects.
> 
> Type checking is a policeman.  Adaptation is a civics teacher.

Good example. I have my own take on this: type checking is about being
strict (to the point of intolerance). Adaptation is about being
flexible.

> > The adapt protocol (as presented on PEP246 -
> > http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0246.html) defines a very flexible
> > framework to adapt one object to a protocol. The result of the
> 
> ...and yet the text of PEP 246 is still missing the specs about
> registering "third party adapters".  Phil Eby's PyProtocols is much
> better that way!!!  (I promise I'll do something about PEP 246 updating:
> just as soon as I'm done with the 2nd ed of the cookbook....!!!!).

That's another thing that I thought about including... but I was
afraid of broadening the scope too much. But at least a pointer to
PyProtocols is needed, if this small intro is to be turned out into a
'what is adaptation' tutorial of sorts.

> > adaptation (if possible) is an object that is guaranteed to support
> > the protocol. So, using adapt(), we can write code like this:
> >
> > def myfunc(obj):
> >     for item in adapt(obj, Iterable):
> >         ...
> 
> Hmmm, yes, we can.  It's a standard protocol so not the best of
> examples, but still, it may be meaningful.

I thought that it was a good example to show what adapt() does... for
someone who never thought about it before.
 
> > Finally, one may be wondering, is there any situation when an object
> > needs to be "adapted"? Why don't just check for the availability of
> > the interface? There are many reasons to use the adapt framework. The
> > protocol checking is one of the reasons -- it allows errors to be
> > catched much earlier, and at a better location. Another possible
> > reason is that complex objects may support several protocols, and
> > there may be name clashes between some of the methods. One such
> > situation is when an object support different *versions* of the same
> > protocol. All versions have the same method names, but semantics may
> > differ slightly. The adapt() call can build a new object with the
> > correct method names and signatures, for each protocol or version
> > supported by the object. Finally, the adaptation method can optionally
> > build an opaque "proxy" object, that hides details of the original
> > methods signature, and it's thus safer to pass around.
> 
> The main motivation I'd give is that different frameworks not knowing
> about each other may define [1] what the object supplies and [2] what
> the object is REQUIRED to supply -- there are often discrepancies, and
> an adapter in-between is gonna be required.  With 246 (once suitably
> updated;-) we can write the adapter ONCE, register it in a suitable
> global registry, and 'adapt' will just find it.  Oh bliss -- as long as
> adapt DOES get called all over the place!-)

I was not entirely satisfied with this part of my explanation, but I
was afraid of taking too many things at once. If I was to rewrite it
now I would probably restructure it, and include a few considerations
about the case with similar (but slightly and annoyingly different)
frameworks.
 
> > Well, that's a broad overview of the subject. There is a lot of stuff
> > to learn, and using adaptation properly is something that takes some
> > time. Hope it helps.
> 
> My compliments for your excellent presentation!  I hope my enrichment of
> it may have proved useful rather than distracting....
> 
> 
> Alex
> 
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From JSmuts at clover.co.za  Tue Nov  9 06:11:22 2004
From: JSmuts at clover.co.za (Jaco Smuts)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:11:22 +0200
Subject: _dict vs __dict__ zodb question
Message-ID: <OF0D905866.E541896F-ON42256F47.003CCF5C-42256F47.003D771D@clover.co.za>



Hello there

Can anyone please point me to a discussion on the usage of _dict or 
__dict__. I am looking at writing custom setAttr methods. 

I rather like the idea doing something like this:

def setAttribute(self, attribute, value):
     some logic / code
     self.__dict__[attribute] = value

However I've come accross a few sites / postings from Google where they 
are using _dict and not __dict__.
My guess is that they are using a custom 'private' attribute _dict and 
populating it with attributes that may be changed.
Is that correct am I missing something else ?

Any thoughts or hints will be appreciated.
thanks
jaco

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From rtilley at vt.edu  Tue Nov 30 21:27:03 2004
From: rtilley at vt.edu (Brad Tilley)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:27:03 -0500
Subject: Python 2.4 Uninstall Entry in WinXP Registry
Message-ID: <coja5j$bhp$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Python 2.3 placed a registry key under:

'HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\Python2.3'

When this key was removed, Python no longer appeared in the Windows 'Add 
Remove Programs' list. We would remove this registry key to keep users 
from uninstalling the software accidentally.

Python 2.4 does not use this registry entry on the two machines I have 
installed it on... any tips on how to locate this?

Thanks,
Brad


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Nov 19 15:10:01 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:10:01 -0800
Subject: Class Encapsulation Errors in Python 2.3.3
In-Reply-To: <47f7cc78.0411191005.7b793bf@posting.google.com>
References: <47f7cc78.0411182007.1b77c2b1@posting.google.com>
	<nrudnceoVIIV5QDcRVn-hw@rogers.com>
	<47f7cc78.0411191005.7b793bf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10pskhnjt2met3f@corp.supernews.com>

Tim Henderson wrote:

>Here is a partial implementation, i don't have the code with me but
>this is how the songs list is made
>
>code:
>-------------------------------------------
>class Album:
>    
>    name = ''
>    songs = []
>    artist = ''
>
>    def __init__(self, name, artist):
>        
>        self.name = name
>        self.artist = artist
>-------------------------------------------
>  
>

Yes, this gives you class-level attributes, shared by all instances of 
Album.  In the case of name and artist, you're then creating 
instance-level attributes ('self.name = name') which shadow the 
class-level attribute.  But you never bind 'songs' on the instance, so 
you're just modifying the class-level (shared) songs list.

>after reading the code i came up with a possible solution:
>
>possible code:
>-------------------------------------------
>class Album:
>    
>    name = ''
>    songs = False
>    artist = ''
>
>    def __init__(self, name, artist):
>        
>        self.name = name
>        self.artist = artist
>        if songs == False:
>            songs = []
>------------------------------------------
>  
>

That'll almost work -- within __init__(), you need to refer to songs as 
self.songs (both times).  But why bother with creating the class-level 
attributes?  If you just set them in __init__(), all will be fine.

class Album:

    def __init__(self, name, artist):

        self.name = name
        self.artist = artist
        self.songs = []

will have the same net effect as your code, for the vast majority of 
common purposes.  (There are corner cases where having class-level 
defaults is helpful, but I sincerely doubt that this is true for your 
program.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From kamarudin at gmail.com  Wed Nov 10 11:04:41 2004
From: kamarudin at gmail.com (kamarudin samsudin)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:04:41 +0000
Subject: How to communicate to device
Message-ID: <86af732d04111008043426dde6@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Im new to linux and very very new to python. But i have to write a
program to communicate with a devide. The device will send a data
after i send something to it.

Any suggestion and help. Maybe something where i can start it.

many thanx.

-- 
regards,
kamarudin samsudin


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Nov 29 17:50:16 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 22:50:16 GMT
Subject: slicing, mapping types, ellipsis etc.
In-Reply-To: <m3y8gkcorz.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
References: <m34qj8e5yd.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
	<opsh9fobad1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
	<m3y8gkcorz.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
Message-ID: <IINqd.175507$R05.83340@attbi_s53>

Jerry Sievers wrote:
> 1. what the Ellipsis object or ... syntax is used for
> 2. what a slice [..., j:k:l] does

My understanding is that the Ellipsis object is intended primarily for 
Numeric/numarray use.  Take a look at:

http://stsdas.stsci.edu/numarray/numarray-1.1.html/node26.html

> 3. how slices are applied to object of mapping types

The short answer is that they aren't.  Slices aren't hashable, so dicts 
can't handle them:

 >>> d = {}
 >>> d = {1:'a', 2:'b'}
 >>> d[1:2]
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: unhashable type
 >>> hash(slice(1, 2))
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: unhashable type

You can, however handle them if you write your own mapping type:

 >>> class M(object):
...     def __getitem__(self, x):
...         if isinstance(x, slice):
...             return x.start, x.stop, x.step
...         else:
...         	return x
...
 >>>
 >>> m = M()
 >>> m[1]
1
 >>> m[1:2]
(1, 2, None)

Hope this helps!

Steve


From grante at visi.com  Thu Nov 18 23:50:08 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 04:50:08 GMT
Subject: don't NaN & infinities hide FP errors
References: <940ee3e8.0411170130.31d247@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.18.01.49.05.537966@jerf.org>
	<419bbb08$0$531$a1866201@visi.com>
	<940ee3e8.0411182041.74321118@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <419d7b80$0$8323$a1866201@visi.com>

On 2004-11-19, kartik <kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com> wrote:

>> The easiest way to do that is to feed a NaN in on the invalid
>> input, and let it propogate through the network of modules.
>> The outputs that don't depend on the invalid input remain
>> valid.  The outputs that do depend on the invalid input are
>> NaNs.  
>> 
>> At the output end of things you don't have to do all sorts of
>> logic to figure out which outputs are valid and which ones
>> aren't -- all you have to do is decide what to do when each
>> output is a NaN.
>
> I understand. But I wasn't saying NaN should be removed, only
> that arithmetic operations shouldn't produce it; you will
> still be free to explicitly set a variable to NaN if you don't
> have valid input.

I don't think you do understand.  The whole _point_ of my post
was that NaNs propagate.  They're useless if arithmetic
operations don't produce NaNs.

> Besides, Python seems to raise exceptions instead of
> generating NaNs or infinities, at least on my machine (Linux,
> GCC 3.3.2, Python 2.3.3).

I don't see any exceptions for operations involving NaNs:

$ python
Python 2.3.3 (#2, Feb 17 2004, 11:45:40) 
[GCC 3.3.2 (Mandrake Linux 10.0 3.3.2-6mdk)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for moreinformation.
>>> import math
>>> x = float("nan")
>>> x
nan
>>> x+0.0
nan
>>> x*15.6
nan
>>> math.sin(x)
nan
>>> 

Python does generate exceptions for divide by zero.  I would
find it far more useful for it to produce an infinity.

> Doesn't that support my view?

I don't think so.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  This PIZZA symbolizes
                                  at               my COMPLETE EMOTIONAL
                               visi.com            RECOVERY!!


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sun Nov  7 08:27:21 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 08:27:21 -0500
Subject: Python OS
In-Reply-To: <418DAA9C.1030702@bellsouth.net>
References: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmin1n$500$02$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6003.1099752590.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmiorc$j4b$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6021.1099783808.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmk7r1$4d0$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<418DAA9C.1030702@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <418E22B9.2030803@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>
> I'm really not trying to contradict nor stir things up.  But the OP 
> wanted to know if it were possible to prototype an OS and in a 
> follow-up, referred to a virtual OS.  Maybe I mis-read the OP, but it 
> seems that he is not concerned with creating a _real_ OS (one that 
> talks directly to the machine), it seems that he is concerned with 
> building all the components that make up an OS for the purpose 
> of....well.....he didn't really state that.....or maybe I missed it.

You understand me entirely Jeremy.  The goal is to create a _virtual_ OS 
that will represent and behave (minus speed) like a  real OS.  It will 
be comprised of all the components necessary for a _real_ OS and if the 
only way to do it is to simulate hardware as well, so be it.  If the 
only way to do it is to handle _real_ interrupts via excruciating slow 
Python to C calls, so be it.  So you understand me entirely as I do not 
wish to create an OS that is usable in the traditional sense.

>
> So, asking in total ignorance, and deferring to someone with obviously 
> more experience that I have (like you, Peter), would it be possible to 
> create an OS-like application that runs in a Python interpreter that 
> does OS-like things (i.e. scheduler, interrupt handling, etc.) and 
> talks to a hardware-like interface?  If we're talking about a virtual 
> OS, (again, I'm asking in ignorance) would anything really be totally 
> time critical?  Especially if the point were learning how an OS works?

Time is not an issue.

>
>>
>> Given that the cost of invoking the Python interpreter on
>> a bytecode-interrupt routine would be several orders of
>> magnitude higher, I don't understand why you think it
>> is possible for it to be as fast.
>
>
> I totally agree with you...sort of.  I totally agree with your 
> technical assessment.  However, I'm reading the OP a different way.  
> If he did mean a virtual OS and if time isn't critical, and he was 
> thinking, "well, I'm getting shot down for proposing to do this in 
> Python, so maybe it isn't possible in Python, but it is possible in C 
> and since I can call C from Python, then I should be able to do it", 
> then maybe he has a point.  Or, maybe I'm just totally misreading the 
> OP.  So, if he's saying that he can just call the C code from python 
> and it'd be just as fast doing interrupt handling that way, then I 
> agree with you.  But if he's talking about just the functionality and 
> not the time, is that possible?

I agree as well, but somehow it was interpreted that I believe it 
possible to achieve the same speed in Python as in C, which I never 
said.  So again, you understand me entirely.  Functionality and not 
time, exactly.

>
>>
>> Of course, if you will allow both assembly/C code here and
>> there as a bridge, *and* you are willing to accept an operating
>> system that is arbitrarily slower at certain time-critical
>> operations (such as responding to mouse activities) than we
>> are used to now, then certainly Python can be used for such things...
>>
> OK - so here's my answer.  It should be possible, but it will be 
> slower, which seems to be acceptable for what he meant when mentioning 
> prototyping and a virtual OS.  But here's another question.  Would it 
> be possible, if I've interpreted him correctly, to write the whole 
> thing in Python without directly calling C code or assembly?  Even if 
> it were unbearably slow and unfit for use for anything other than, 
> say, a learning experience?  Kind of like a combustion engine that has 
> part of it replaced with transparent plastic - you dare not try to run 
> it, but you can manually move the pistons, etc.  It's only good for 
> education.
>
That is my question, but the consensus seems to be no.


From nicogrubert at arcor.de  Thu Nov 25 09:43:53 2004
From: nicogrubert at arcor.de (Nico Grubert)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 15:43:53 +0100
Subject: Replacing words from strings except  'and' / 'or' / 'and not'
Message-ID: <41A5EFA9.5030907@arcor.de>

Hi there,

Background of this question is:
I want to convert all words <word> except 'and' / 'or' / 'and not' from 
a string into '*<word>*'.

Example:
I have the following string: 
"test and testing and not perl or testit or example"

I want to convert this string to:
'*test*' and '*testing*' and not '*perl*' or '*testit*' or '*example*'


Any idea, how to do this?

Thanks in advance,
Nico


From cjw at sympatico.ca  Thu Nov 11 09:45:24 2004
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:45:24 -0500
Subject: distutils and Debian
In-Reply-To: <NPSdnfYgfbIHRw_cRVn-gw@giganews.com>
References: <4192AD69.5040707@sympatico.ca>
	<slrncp5cf6.v8.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<qeGdnUA1FNXrJw_cRVn-oA@giganews.com> <cmuf87$fm5$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<NPSdnfYgfbIHRw_cRVn-gw@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <%VKkd.32428$km5.1575758@news20.bellglobal.com>

Istvan Albert wrote:
> Robert Kern wrote:
> 
>> only depend on the main python package. Most packages that need Python 
>> *don't* need distutils or the C headers or the static library.
> 
> 
> The *devel* branch in my interpretation means the distribution
> that contains the files used during the development of the
> application itself. For example the C headers
> that you mention.
> 
> But it should not mean removing support
> for installing new scripts for the runtime
> application!
> 
> Distutils is primarily about installing and distributing
> python programs and it has little to do with developing
> python itself. Some packages will not
> be installable without the devel branch but removing
> distutils to head off that situation seems very odd.
> 
> Istvan.
I'm inclined to agree with this.

Colin W.


From maarten at remove_this_ws.tn.tudelft.nl  Fri Nov 12 10:59:36 2004
From: maarten at remove_this_ws.tn.tudelft.nl (Maarten van Reeuwijk)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:59:36 +0100
Subject: PyTables:Installing hdf5
References: <37ee60c8.0411120648.3a2ad4c6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cn2ml8$des$1@news.tudelft.nl>

Ajith Prasad wrote:

> I am trying to install the WinXP version of PyTables which requires
> hdf5 (from http://hdf.ncsa.uiuc.edu/HDF5/) as a pre-requisite.
> However, I am at a loss as to how to install hdf5 - I have downloaded
> the zipped version of hdf5 and unzipped it using WinZip but get a mass
> of .exe and other files and have no clue as to how to proceed further.
> Thanks in advance for any help.

I assume you downloaded the pre-compiled binary from
ftp://ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu/HDF/HDF5/current/bin/windows/

Unpack the zip to a temp-dir and copy all the data inside the
5-163-winxp-net directory to say c:\hdf5. Then look in COMPILE.TXT in the
DLL section to find the following instruction for compiling HDF-enabled
programs:

DLLs:
----
   Copy the hdf5dll.dll, hdf5_cppdll.dll, zlib.dll, and szlibdll.dll files 
   from the location in the HDF5, szip, zlib binary distributions to the 
   WINNT\SYSTEM directory.

   Bring up MSVC++ .NET.

   Select File->New->Projects->"Visual C++ Projects".  Then select 
    "Managed C++ Empty Project" and enter a name.
  
   Select Project->Properties->Linker->Input
   Enter "hdf5dll.lib hdf5_cppdll.lib zlib.lib szlibdll.lib" at the 
     beginning of the "Additional Dependencies" line.

   Select Project->Properties->C/C++->Preprocessor
   Under Preprocessor Definitions, add:  _HDF5USEDLL_
   For C++ DLLs, add: HDF5CPP_USEDLL

   Select Project->Properties->C/C++->Code Generation->Runtime Library, 
    and choose "multi-threaded DLL"

   Select Tools->Options->Projects->VC++ Directories.
   Select "Include Files" under "Show directories for".
   Enter the paths for the HDF5, szlib and zlib include files.
   Then select "Library Files" under "Show directories for".
   Enter the paths for the HDF5, szlib and zlib DLL exported libraries.

   Select Build->Compile <program>. (C or C++ program)
   Select Build->Build <xxx.exe>.  
   Select Build->Execute <xxx.exe>.


Copying the dll's is essential for installing PyTables, but I don't know how
the PyTables installer works under Windows.

HTH, Maarten
-- 
===================================================================
Maarten van Reeuwijk                    Thermal and Fluids Sciences
Phd student                             dept. of Multiscale Physics
www.ws.tn.tudelft.nl                 Delft University of Technology


From square690410 at yahoo.com.tw  Mon Nov 29 05:13:50 2004
From: square690410 at yahoo.com.tw (Leon)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 18:13:50 +0800
Subject: Newbie MySQLdb / MySQL version problem, I think
References: <q5idnQ4l3bB-gTfcRVn-hQ@rcn.net>
Message-ID: <coesp7$767$1@netnews.hinet.net>

new version MySQL use new Password encode .....
you can use ?upassword()?v(modify user table)?Ato change new password encode 
to old password......

good luck ^^

---by Leon--
"Dave Merrill" <dmerrillq at usaq.netq> ???g???l???s?D:q5idnQ4l3bB-gTfcRVn-hQ at rcn.net...
> Sorry for the newbness... Win2K, Python 2.3.3, MySQL 4.1.7. Downloaded and
> extracted MySQL-python-1.0.0.win32-py2.3.zip. Put the whole extracted
> directory into C:\Program Files\Python23\Lib\site-packages\ and renamed it
> to "MySQLdb.
>
> MySQLdb.__version__ returns '1.0.0', so I think it's installed ok.
>
> However, I still can't connect, and I just want to confirm my guess on 
> what
> the problem is, which is that MySQLdb doesn't yet support MySQL 4.1. I'd
> hoped that all that meant was that it wouldn't support any of 4.1's new
> features, but it appears this combination may be completely 
> non-functional.
> Test and results below.
>
> Has anyone else tried this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave Merrill
>
>
> TEST CODE (from http://www.kitebird.com/articles/pydbapi.html):
> --------------
> import MySQLdb
> conn = MySQLdb.connect (host = "localhost",
>                       user = "test_user",
>                       passwd = "secret",
>                       db = "test_db")
> cursor = conn.cursor ()
> cursor.execute ("SELECT VERSION()")
> row = cursor.fetchone ()
> print "server version:", row[0]
> cursor.close ()
> conn.close ()
> --------------
>
> RESULT:
> --------------
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\sm\scriptutils.py", line 49,
> in run
>    exec codeObject in mainDict
>  File "<source>", line 9, in ?
>  File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\__init__.py", line
> 64, in Connect
>    return apply(Connection, args, kwargs)
>  File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\connections.py", 
> line
> 116, in __init__
>    self._make_connection(args, kwargs2)
>  File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\connections.py", 
> line
> 41, in _make_connection
>    apply(super(ConnectionBase, self).__init__, args, kwargs)
> OperationalError: (1251, 'Client does not support authentication protocol
> requested by server; consider upgrading MySQL client')
> --------------
>
>
>
> 




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Nov 25 12:57:12 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 09:57:12 -0800
Subject: network programming without goto
In-Reply-To: <20041125092843.FA17.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <20041125145353.89046.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20041125092843.FA17.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20041125095551.FA1A.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

Oops, I forgot to mark the 'query' as done when it was done...

queries = [buildquery(t) for t in targets]

for host in hostlist:
    tries_remaining = 3 #tunable parameter
    for q in queries:
        done = 0
        for i in xrange(tries_remaining+1):
            if i == tries_remaining:
                break
            try:
                conn = zoom.Connecton(host.ip, host.port)
                r = conn.search(q)
                conn.close()
                done = 1
                break
            except:
                continue
            
            #handle result r
            break
            
        tries_remaining -= i
        
        if tries_remaining == 0 or done:
            break



From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Sun Nov 28 01:35:05 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 06:35:05 GMT
Subject: Python Huffman encoding
References: <41a525c6$0$76502$b83b6cc0@news.wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <tkeqd.50271$g21.8670@fe1.texas.rr.com>

"dot" <""gumuz(\"@)looze(dot)net"> wrote in message
news:41a525c6$0$76502$b83b6cc0 at news.wanadoo.nl...
> Hi all, I have written a Python huffman Encoding Module, for my own
> amusement. I thought it might be educational/entertaining for other
> people, so I've put it on my website and wrote about it a little.
>
>
http://gumuz.looze.net/wordpress/index.php/archives/2004/11/25/huffman-encoding/
>
> Your comments are highly appreciated!
>
> cheers,
>
> guyon

Guyon -

Great first step at some self-learning with a non-trivial test program.
Here are some performance speedups that will help you out.

1. Measure, measure, measure!!!  Don't just guess where the performance
spots may lie, use time, timeit, or hotspot profiler to help you find your
performance problems.  I used a very crude form of profiling, in the same
vein as using printf for debugging.  I created a method called elapsed(),
and then just dropped in elapsed("A"), elapsed("B"), etc. commands to help
me identify where the time is going.  (Calling elapsed() with no label
resets the timer.)

elapsedLast = 0
def elapsed(label=''):
    global elapsedLast
    cur = time.time()
    if label:
        print "%s %.2f sec" % (label,cur-elapsedLast)
    elapsedLast = cur


2. Your main encoding hotspot is in the bin2dec() routine.  In your
newbie-ness, you have reinvented the int() built-in.  Adding the code (to
replace your implementation of bin2dec):

def bin2dec(bin_number):
    return int(bin_number,2)

cuts out 75% of your encoding time.

3. Your decoding method has 2 hot spots.  One, predictably, is in the
conversion from decimal to binary.  Unfortunately, there *is* no builtin for
this (did I read somewhere that this would be added in 2.4?), so instead, I
resorted to the time-honored lookup table approach.  You only ever call
dec2bin with numbers from 0 to 255.  So I followed your slow implementation
of dec2bin with the following code:

# use slow dec2bin to build lookup dict
binmap = {}
for i in range(256):
    binmap[i] = dec2bin(i)
# now redefine dec2bin using lookup dict
def dec2bin(dec_number):
    return binmap[dec_number]

This creates a fast lookup table using 256 calls to your slow routine, then
defines a new dec2bin method that just returns the value from the lookup
table.  (In Python version 2.4, you could use a memoize decorator to
accomplish this with a single @memoize decorator
statement/declaration/well-what-is-this-thing-anyway? just before your
original dec2bin method - this is a very cool technique worth checking out -
see http://www.python.org/moin/PythonDecoratorLibrary.) This change crushes
out almost *all* the decimal-to-binary time (which in my tests was about 58%
of the decoding time)

Your second hot spot in decoding is the while loop in which you iterate over
the encoded string looking for successively longer keys.  With a few minor
changes, I cut out about 48% of the processing time in your loop (or about
19% of the total decoding time).
Orig:
    while not end_idx > len(bit_string):
        if table.has_key(bit_string[start_idx:end_idx]):
            result.append(table[bit_string[start_idx:end_idx]])
            start_idx = end_idx
        end_idx += 1

        if bit_string[start_idx:end_idx] == '': break

Modified:
    bit_string_len = len(bit_string)
    while not end_idx > bit_string_len:
        curkey = bit_string[start_idx:end_idx]
        if curkey in table:
            result.append(table[curkey])
            start_idx = end_idx
        end_idx += 1

bit_string does not change length during this loop, so there is no reason to
evaluate len(bit_string) each time.  This alone cuts another 5% from the
original decoding time.  Then, I removed the curious 'if bitstring[...'
test, which looks like some kind of vestigial debugging code - I'm not sure
I can see any conditions when it will evaluate to true.  Removing this drops
another 8%.  Finally, I saved the temporary value of the string slice
bit_string[start_idx:end_idx], in case it was a key found in the table
variable - no need to double-compute the slice if the key is in the table -
this carves off another 7%.

Just some general comments on performance:
1. Avoid function calls.  These are major performance killers.  The worst
part of your original dec2bin was that it called itself recursively.
2. try: except: overhead.  Setting up the try/except frames can be
expensive.  One of my early attempts at optimizing your while loop was to
use:
            try:
                result.append(table[bit_string[start_idx:end_idx]])
            except KeyError:
                pass
            else:
                start_idx = end_idx
But this made things much slower!
3. Loop invariants and dotted refs.  If you have a while-loop, remember that
the while condition is reevaluated every iteration.  If you are working your
way through a long string, don't keep calling len(reallyLongString)!  Also,
once you start to work more with classes and objects, you'll find that
repeated refs to object attributes within a while loop can be improved by
copying to a local variable.  That is,
            while countingSomethings():
                if numberOfSomethings > self.maxSomethings:
                    reactAccordingly()
can be performance-improved with:
            maxSomethingLimit = self.maxSomethings
            while countingSomethings():
                if numberOfSomethings > maxSomethingLimit:
                    reactAccordingly()

Lastly, performance enhancements can be in direct conflict with
maintainability and generally accepted practices - so use them sparingly!!!
and comment liberally!!!

-- Paul





From vinay_sajip at red-dove.com  Fri Nov 26 13:37:10 2004
From: vinay_sajip at red-dove.com (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 18:37:10 +0000
Subject: SysLogHandler is drivin me nuts PEBCAC
In-Reply-To: <f11c8440.0411260207.555d2cc0@posting.google.com>
References: <f11c8440.0411250122.c600af1@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6782.1101394046.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<f11c8440.0411260207.555d2cc0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41A777D6.5010504@red-dove.com>

michael wrote:
> Yep it was incomplete heres the complete config as it has to be
> 
[config file snipped]

The complete file looks OK. Did you take into account the comment 
roderik made (about levels - does it work if you set the logger and 
handler levels both to DEBUG)? And have you checked that there is no 
network problem?

Best regards,

Vinay Sajip


From dan.gass at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 01:41:44 2004
From: dan.gass at gmail.com (Dan Gass)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 22:41:44 -0800
Subject: ANN: TestGen 0.04 Software Test Framework Released
Message-ID: <bc15ba28.0411232241.1849f5b8@posting.google.com>

TestGen release 0.04 is now available.  It is the first publicly announced
release of this Python package.

TestGen is a Python package for software testing.  The package currently 
contains targets for unit testing C/C++.  Future releases will support 
integration testing of C/C++ systems as well as functional testing using 
Python targets. 

- requires Python2.2 or later (it was developed on Python2.3 with some
  testing/verification performed with 2.2)
- Python API for specification of test case setup, inputs and outputs
  (Python's power and flexibility can be used to generate test cases)
- generates "C/C++" test code per test specifications, compiles, links,
  runs, and evaluates the results
- provides access to C++ protected and private variables and methods
- function/method stubbing (for satisfying external linkages or testing
  interfaces to them)
- function/method remove/copy (for isolating code under test
  to reduce external linkage requirements)
- "on the fly" code under test manipulation capability (useful for
  making temporary code modifications to make it testable)
- convenient "C" random number function library (useful when iterating
  the test to get better coverage)
- easy file output comparison and base lining
- test expectations independently verified for successful completion.
- batch facility available for running multiple test scripts (batch
  tests may be nested in that they may execute other batch tests)
- GNU and Microsoft compilers supported (customizable for others)

The vast majority of TestGen is released under the GNU General Public
License with the small remainder released under the MIT License.

Downloads are available at the following address under the "Files" link:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/testgen/

Feedback and comments are very welcome.  You may contact the author at
dan.gass at gmail.com.


From mfuhr at fuhr.org  Fri Nov  5 23:18:53 2004
From: mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 21:18:53 -0700
Subject: Python for Reverse Engineering
References: <cmhdi4$7vi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <418c50ad$1_3@omega.dimensional.com>

Brad Tilley <rtilley at vt.edu> writes:

> A friend of mine wrote an algorithm that generates strings. He says that 
> it's impossible to figure out exactly how the algorithm works. That may 
> be true, but I think if I had enough sample strings that I could write a 
> program to identify patterns in the strings and then produce strings 
> with similar patterns. He disagrees with me. He gave me 100 strings to 
> analyze.

What input, if any, does the algorithm take?  What are the strings
used for?  Care to post the 100 strings so others can have a look?

> What else might I do to analyze these things? As it stands now, I can 
> generate an acceptable string on ever 100th attempt or so, but I'd like 
> to do better than this.

Reading about cryptanalysis might prove fruitful.  I suspect the
number of "impossible to figure out" algorithms is far less than
the number of algorithms whose developers initially made that claim.

-- 
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Sun Nov 14 19:10:22 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:10:22 -0500
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <boKdncuh1ZBxbgrcRVn-gA@giganews.com>

Will Stuyvesant wrote:

> And instead of working on the engine they should have put more work
> into examples.  Simple tutorials.  

What has been released is not Zope 3
but Zope X3 where the X stands for eXperimental.

The way I understood it they want to showcase the
technology and system architecture. So don't knock
it for what is not meant to be.

Istvan.

ps. that being said I, after a few hours of fooling
around  with it I found it to be more complicated
than ever ... and it was not clear what is it
that we gain from paying that price. We'll see how it
evolves.


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Wed Nov 10 10:42:12 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:42:12 +0100
Subject: [Newbie]: How to find a specified digit in a number?
References: <dtqkd.63297$Vf.3129899@news000.worldonline.dk>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.10.15.42.12.869973@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:29:13 +0100 schrieb Mathias:

> Hi everyone.
> 
> I'm making a little script which finds the right number from a couple of
> choices, but I need a function or script which finds a specified digit,
> eg. FindDigit(3579, 3) = 7.

Hi,

The example looks like you need the third
characater of the string:
print "3579"[2] # zero based

you can use int() to make it an integer
and str() to make an integer a string.

Or you want to search in the string for e.g. "5":

mystring="12345"
idx=mystring.find("3")
if idx==-1:
    print "not found"
else:
    print "Found it at index %s" % idx


HTH,
 Thomas



From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Nov 19 21:43:15 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:43:15 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6627.1100906720.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.6627.1100906720.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <419EAF43.2070101@holdenweb.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> "Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message 
> news:16798.16559.745209.751967 at montanaro.dyndns.org...
> 
>>My guess is Microsoft hopes to discourage Visual Basic knock-offs.  Claim 
>>2
>>clearly seems to restrict the scope to BASIC.
> 
> 
> But Claim 1 is generic.  Not being an initiate into Patentese, I would not 
> be sure is Claim 2 is a restriction or an exemplification or a backup 
> claim.
> 
The normal method of applying for a patent starts with the most general 
claims and has subsequent claims restricting the scope successively. The 
argument then becomes how far down the list the patent examiner must go 
before seeing what he or she regards as a defensible claim.
> 
>>Seems pretty slimy.
> 
> 
Yep.

> To me, this confirms the depravity of software claims.
> 
Stupidity, I should have said.

> I think the Python Software Foundation should notify both the Patent Office 
> and the claimant lawyers of Python's prior art of an 'is not' operator with 
> the same meaning.  The necessity, for Basic, to delete the space or change 
> it to '_' (and both forms, with all variations of casing, are 'claimed' as 
> inventions) is because Microsoft Basic currently parses 'a Is Not b' as 'a 
> Is (Not b)' instead of 'a (Is Not) b' as Python does and coupled with a 
> proper reluctance to change the meaning of currently legal code.  But 
> changing ' ' to '_' for pragmatic reasons is standard in programming 
> languages, including Python.
> 
While I admire the sentiment, I can't really support the Foundation 
becoming involved in such nonsense.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Fri Nov 12 07:02:31 2004
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:02:31 +0100
Subject: web hosting with Python
In-Reply-To: <6f402501.0411120033.111907a0@posting.google.com>
References: <3cccb1d8.0411101416.690960c3@posting.google.com>
	<6f402501.0411110147.69ef6800@posting.google.com>
	<41934648$0$48933$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<6f402501.0411120033.111907a0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4194a659$0$36861$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Michael Foord wrote:

> Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:<41934648$0$48933$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl>...
> 
>>Michael Foord wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.sapphiresoft.co.uk
>>>are very good. (Good python support, python 2.3.4).
>>
>>It doesn't say so on their website, it appears a PHP shop...
>>Or am I looking with my eyes closed?
>>
>>--Irmen
> 
> 
> They've installed Python 2.3.4 at my request, PyCrypto, PIL, Psyco and
> a few other modules. I don't think they've got anything advertising it
> on their main page........

They need to fix their site: it looks like crap in Firefox...

Anyway, are you allowed to run one or more long running Python 
processes? I.e. say I want a Quixote-based website there, do
they allow you to run Quixote?

--Irmen


From c-Bizhong.Hu at mci.com  Wed Nov 17 15:46:29 2004
From: c-Bizhong.Hu at mci.com (Hu, Bizhong)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 20:46:29 +0000
Subject: How to do this in Python?
Message-ID: <F6E63DB2660086448BC88064E324E40A0E323F68@DGEXCH05.mcilink.com>

Hi,

 

I just started using python. In Perl, I could do something like this to
process the output of ps:

$result = `ps -ef | grep myprog`. Then the $result contains the result from
this command line.

How can I do similar things in python?

 

Thanks.

 

Bizhong Hu

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From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Nov 19 19:03:06 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:03:06 -0800
Subject: instances v. threads
In-Reply-To: <pmund.18309$Vk6.8463@twister.nyc.rr.com>
References: <cnlq48$qf7$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<pmund.18309$Vk6.8463@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <419e9c9b$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Rob Snyder wrote:
...
> Now, suppose your class really looked like this:
> 
> class xyz:
>         def one(stuff):
>                 self.data = stuff
> 

Let's make this (as I'm sure you know):
 > class xyz:
 >         def one(self, stuff):
 >                 self.data = stuff

I just want to make sure newbies reading this doesn't get confused.

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From mwm at mired.org  Mon Nov  8 11:52:23 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 10:52:23 -0600
Subject: executing python code
References: <cmgvvd$chn$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<418c0870$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
	<cmh1t7$d9p$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<418c0e56_1@omega.dimensional.com>
	<x7y8hfr9wu.fsf@guru.mired.org> <418F639D.3070404@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <x7oei8p9ko.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:

> Mike Meyer wrote:
>> I find that symlinking ~/src/python/mycode.py to ~/bin/mycode means I
>> get to invoke it without having to specify the extension, and don't
>> have to reinstall the file if I change it.
>>      <mike
>
> That works too. Of course under Linux/Unix there's no particular
> reason to use the .py extension in the first place.

Some editors use the extension to determine the language mode to run
in. And distutils uses .py extensions.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From bradtilley at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 10:39:52 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:39:52 -0500
Subject: module imports and memory usage
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6932.1101828125.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6932.1101828125.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <coi488$dkv$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Jp Calderone wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:02:27 -0500, Brad Tilley <bradtilley at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>When memory usage is a concern, is it better to do:
>>
>>from X import Y
>>
>>or
>>
>>import X
> 
> 
>   There is no difference.  If you are concerned about memory usage, you probably need to take a look at the data structures holding your application's data, and find a way to make them smaller (most commonly, this is done by selecting a new algorithm that works on a sparser data structure).  This isn't specific to Python, of course.
> 
> 
>>Also, is there a way to load and unload modules as they are needed. I 
>>have some scripts that sleep for extended periods during a while loop 
>>and I need to be as memory friendly as possible. I can post a detailed 
>>script that currently uses ~ 10MB of memory if anyone is interested.
> 
> 
>   Not really, no.  Deleting all references to a module may cause the module object to be collected by the vm, but there is no guarantee that the memory it used will be released to the platform.  It's possible Python will re-use it for the next object it needs memory for, which may help your memory problems if you are loading many (_many_) more modules than you ever use at once.
> 
>   On a reasonable platform, if your program is sleeping, much of the memory it uses will be swapped out, especially if other processes need it.  Are you sure you have good reason to be concerned over the size of the program?
> 
>   Jp

Thanks for the info JP. No, I'm not sure that I have good reason to be 
concerned over memory. I usually think in terms of percentages. 10MB is 
an insignificant percentage on a machine that has 1GB of RAM, but 
perhaps more significant when only 64MB or 128MB is present.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Nov  3 22:23:20 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:23:20 -0800
Subject: Off topic, but quick question...
Message-ID: <20041103191109.F802.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Like the subject says, this is a bit off topic.


I was wondering if there was anyone who was traveling from the UK to the
LA area before December 14 (or really any time) that would be willing to
do me a favor.

Specifically, my brother in law has fallen in love with Caffrey's
English Draught Ale and could go for a few pints.


I would, of course, pay for the ale, meet you in the LA area, and even
take you out to dinner if desired.


Thank you in advance,
 - Josiah



From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Wed Nov 10 09:30:22 2004
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:30:22 GMT
Subject: emacs swaps windows
References: <cmrk87$72p$1@news-02.connect.com.au>
Message-ID: <xqxk6stzsht.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

tschulz <thomas.schulz at esands.com> writes:

> In emacs' python-mode, a file can be executed by pressing Ctrl-C
> Ctrl-C. If the code execution terminates with an Exception, emacs
> swaps the source code window and the python output window.
> Is there a way to stop that annoying behavior?
> 
> Tom

Personally I spit windows, open a shell, and run a script called "go"
(typically by doing alt-p to get previous commandline), which sets
paths and other variables before calling the program.  So ^C^C never
is an issues.

However, a similar behavior with emacs's dired is solved with:

;;;----------------------------------------------------------------------
;;; Change C-x C-b buffer listing so that the current window is used
;;; if more than one window is displayed, otherwise splits the window.
;;; 
(defun my-list-buffers (&rest args)
  (interactive)
  (let ((buff-window (get-buffer-window "*Buffer List*")))
    (if (and (not buff-window)		; Not visible.
	     (not (one-window-p 'no-mini))) ; Multiple windows.
	;; Attach "*Buffer List*" to current window.
	(switch-to-buffer "*Buffer List*")))
  (apply 'list-buffers args)
  (pop-to-buffer "*Buffer List*")	; Go there.
  (forward-line 3))			; Skip usually uninteresting stuff.

(global-set-key "\C-x\C-b" 'my-list-buffers)

;;;----------------------------------------------------------------------
;;; Modified from original in buff-menu.el, this one buries the
;;; menu buffer after selecting a buffer.
;;; 
(defun Buffer-menu-this-window ()
  "Select this line's buffer in this window, and bury menu buffer."
  (interactive)
  (let ((menu-buffer (current-buffer)))
    (switch-to-buffer (Buffer-menu-buffer t))
    (bury-buffer menu-buffer)))


-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
Phone: (425) 294-4718


From mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net  Sat Nov 13 13:45:04 2004
From: mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net (Jean Brouwers)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 18:45:04 GMT
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<slrncp8tqi.c7p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6310.1100281534.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<121120041606297367%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>
	<mailman.6323.1100306430.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <131120041045570319%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>


Quite interesting, I'll check the Shell.py for more details.  Thank you.

/Jean Brouwers



In article <mailman.6323.1100306430.5135.python-list at python.org>,
Fernando Perez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Jean Brouwers wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Fernando,
> > 
> > Just curious, does 'gtk/WX' in your message below mean wxPython?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> > If so, does this signal handling code actually work with wxPython?> 
> 
> It does, but not in a generic manner: this is code for ipython to support
> matplotlib's WX backend in an interactive shell.  It allows you to type into
> ipython plotting commands which cause matplotlib to open a WX plotting window,
> and the interactive terminal continues to function.  You can have multiple WX
> plotting windows open, and the command line keeps on chugging.
> 
> But this relies on a special collaborative hack between matplotlib and
> ipython.
> matplotlib, in its WX and GTK backends (Tk doesn't need this) has a special
> flag to indicate who is in control of the mainloop.  In standalone scripts,
> everything works in the typical manner.  But if ipython comes in, it will set
> this flag, telling matplotlib to keep off the mainoop.
> 
> It's pretty hackish, but it works in practice pretty well.  
> 
> here's the relevant matplotlib WX code (trimmed of docstring):
> 
> def show():
> 
>     for figwin in Gcf.get_all_fig_managers():
>         figwin.frame.Show()
>         figwin.canvas.realize()
>         figwin.canvas.draw()
> 
>     if show._needmain and not matplotlib.is_interactive():
>         wxapp.MainLoop()
>         show._needmain = False
> show._needmain = True
> 
> When ipython starts up, it sets show._needmain to False, so that the
> Mainloop()
> call is never made.  You can look at the whole code from ipython if you wish,
> it's in IPython/Shell.py.
> 
> best,
> 
> f
>


From nmkolev at uni-bonn.de  Tue Nov  9 16:59:16 2004
From: nmkolev at uni-bonn.de (Nickolay Kolev)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 22:59:16 +0100
Subject: Packing list elements into tuples
In-Reply-To: <cmrcqq$rv4$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
References: <cmrcqq$rv4$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <cmreif$rve$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>

Nickolay Kolev wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I have a list whose length is a multiple of 3. I want to get a list  of 
> tuples each of which has 3 consecutive elements from the original list, 
> thus packing the list into smaller packets. Like this:

I found it in the cookbook: 
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/303060

It looks quite cryptic, could anyone give me some pointers at what 
exactly is going on in the function?

Cheers,
   -- Nickolay


From grante at visi.com  Tue Nov  9 10:30:07 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 09 Nov 2004 15:30:07 GMT
Subject: sockets: How to know when your data is sent
References: <f00811ba.0411090653.5f6d1d29@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4190e27f$0$95596$a1866201@visi.com>

On 2004-11-09, Marc Ederis <mederis at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I'm having a problem with sending data with sockets over a
> dial-up connection. When I use the send function, it will
> happily send a buffer of a megabyte and more in one shot. But
> of course, the data is still in the network buffer... Meaning
> you can't disconnect for awhile (but for how long...). The
> problem is, how can I know when it's done? Is there a way to
> be notified when the data has truly been sent?

What OS are you using?

Under Linux, there is no way to tell.  IIRC, there's no way to
tell under BSD either.  I actually wrote some kernel mode code
once upon a time to provide an ioctl() that I could call from
user space to find out when the data I had written to a socket
was actually sent.

> Is there something I'm missing, or is there a better way to do
> this?

The way to tell that data has been sent is to use an
application-level protocol that acknowleges the data transferr.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Remember, in 2039,
                                  at               MOUSSE & PASTA will
                               visi.com            be available ONLY by
                                                   prescription!!


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Tue Nov 23 04:16:38 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 09:16:38 GMT
Subject: A lock that times out but doesn't poll
Message-ID: <slrncq5vvl.61m.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

The queue and condition class allow threads to wait only a limited
time. However this currently is implemented by a polling loop.

Now for those who like to avoid polling I have here a Tlock
class that allows for a timeout but doesn't use polling.

All comments are welcome.


----------------------- Tlock.py -------------------------------

import threading

class TimeOut(Exception):
  pass

class Tlock:

  def __init__(self):

    self.mutex = threading.Lock()
    self.lktab = [threading.Lock()]


  def acquire(self, timeout=None):

    class SC:
      pass


    def break_lock(sc, mutex, tab):

      mutex.acquire()
      try:
        try:
          i = tab.index(sc.pl, 1)
          del tab[i]
          sc.broken = True
          sc.pl.release()
          sc.pl.release()
        except ValueError:
          pass
      finally:
        mutex.release()


    self.mutex.acquire()
    sc=SC()
    sc.ll = threading.Lock()
    sc.ll.acquire()
    self.lktab.append(sc.ll)
    sc.pl = self.lktab[-2]
    sc.broken = False
    if len(self.lktab) > 2 and timeout is not None:
      tm = threading.Timer(timeout, break_lock, 
                           args=[sc, self.mutex, self.lktab])
      tm.start()
    else:
      tm = None
    self.mutex.release()
    sc.pl.acquire()
    if sc.broken:
      raise TimeOut, "lock timed out"
    else:
      if tm is not None:
        tm.cancel()


  def release(self):

    self.mutex.acquire()
    self.lktab[0].release()
    del self.lktab[0]
    self.lktab[0].release()
    self.mutex.release()


if __name__ == "__main__":

  from time import sleep
  from random import randint

  T = Tlock()

  def thrd(Id):

    for _ in xrange(100):
      try:
        print "Trying %d" % Id
        T.acquire(randint(0,6))
        print "Entering %d" % Id
        sleep(randint(0,6))
        print "Leaving %d" % Id
        T.release()
      except TimeOut, ErrId:
        print "Failed %d" % Id
      sleep(randint(0,6))


  for i in xrange(5):
    th = threading.Thread(target=thrd, args=(i,))
    th.start()


From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Wed Nov 17 09:00:05 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:00:05 +0100
Subject: don't NaN & infinities hide FP errors
In-Reply-To: <1f7befae041117054954a8e966@mail.gmail.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0411170130.31d247@posting.google.com>	<cnf963$ioc$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<1f7befae041117054954a8e966@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <419B5965.1010801@geochemsource.com>


>The rest varies across platforms, as explained in this note at the end
>of Python's math module docs:
>
>"""
>The math module consists mostly of thin wrappers around the platform C
>math library functions. Behavior in exceptional cases is loosely
>specified by the C standards, and Python inherits much of its
>math-function error-reporting behavior from the platform C
>implementation. As a result, the specific exceptions raised in error
>cases (and even whether some arguments are considered to be
>exceptional at all) are not defined in any useful cross-platform or
>cross-release way. For example, whether math.log(0) returns -Inf or
>raises ValueError or OverflowError isn't defined, and in cases where
>math.log(0) raises OverflowError, math.log(0L) may raise ValueError
>instead.
>"""
>
I still feel that it would be possible to use some assembly code and 
achieve the same behaviour on all platforms.
It is really not difficult to calculate log on a 387. It can be more 
difficult on a RISC but not impossible.
Why the implementation stuck on the C standards? Okay, maybe it is not 
possible or too difficult to use asm code
on some platforms. But at least Python should try to do the same thing 
when it is possible. It could be an 'option'
to compile low level code for the most popular operating systems. What 
do you think?

   Laci 2.0




From sdementen at hotmail.com  Wed Nov  3 07:07:46 2004
From: sdementen at hotmail.com (Sebastien de Menten)
Date: 3 Nov 2004 04:07:46 -0800
Subject: slice object unpickable
References: <mailman.5824.1099416008.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8dad5312.0411030407.6d171727@posting.google.com>

perfect ! I was not aware of this functionnality. But indeed, in the
python library reference, I should have read the doc of the module
just under cPickle.
thanks a lot

> 
>   Or use the copy_reg module to make them pickleable:
> 
>     def pickleSlice(slice):
>         return unpickleSlice, (slice.start, slice.stop, slice.step)
>     def unpickleSlice(start, stop, step):
>         return slice(start, stop, step)
>     copy_reg.pickle(slice, pickleSlice, unpickleSlice)
> 
>   Jp


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 10 06:01:04 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:01:04 GMT
Subject: property for class objects
References: <mailman.6198.1100056948.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zvgkd.40384$ak3.1503768@wagner.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <4191edee.85006843@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 23:08:44 -0500, Steve Menard <foo at bar.com> wrote:

>Jp Calderone wrote:
>> On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 21:54:50 -0500, Steve Menard <foo at bar.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>As par of JPype, I find that I have to brifge Java static members into 
>>>class attributes.
>>>
>>>I am using a metaclass to dynamically create a Python class for every 
>>>Java type encountered. Instance variables were handled by adding a 
>>>property(get, set) to the class's dictionary.
>>>
>>>Now static members are giving me a headache. I cannot use "property" for 
>>>them, because properties are for instances only.
>>>
>>>What I am currently doing is adding a __getattr__ and a __setattr__ 
>>>methods to the metaclass, which is called when a class attribute is 
>>>requested but not found in the class' dict.
>>>
>>>This works fine exact it does not walk the inheritance tree to find 
>>>static members defined in base classes. I am currently adding up all the 
>>>names in every class. This "works", however it is misleading when you do 
>>>a dir() of the class.
>>>
>>>Does anyone have an idea how to implement "classproperty" ?
>> 
>> 
>>   How about this?
>> 
>>     exarkun at boson:~$ python
>>     Python 2.3.4 (#2, Sep 24 2004, 08:39:09) 
>>     [GCC 3.3.4 (Debian 1:3.3.4-12)] on linux2
>>     Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>     >>> class x(type):
>>     ...     def get_y(self):
>>     ...             return 'y on', self
>>     ...     def set_y(self, value):
>>     ...             print 'y on', self, 'is now', value
>>     ...     y = property(get_y, set_y)
>>     ... 
>>     >>> class z(object):
>>     ...         __metaclass__ = x
>>     ... 
>>     >>> z.y
>>     ('y on', <class '__main__.z'>)
>>     >>> z.y = 'foo'
>>     y on <class '__main__.z'> is now foo
>>     >>> 
>> 
>>   If not, how is what you are looking for different?
>> 
>>   Jp
>
>I had thought about this solution. However, that would mean I would have 
>to define a Python metaclass (to hold the class properties) for each 
>Java class uses, as well as the Python class I already generate. I am 
>afraid this would en up being very heavy.
>
>I am not discarding this solution completely. It migth be that defining 
>those 2 (class and metaclass) isnt too heavy. Someone needs to clue me 
>in on this or I have to do some benchmarking myself.
>
>Hopefully, tehre is a cleaner way to solve this.
>
Sometimes a custom descriptor can get you there. You can pass stuff to its
constructor to hang on its self, which is accessible separately from the self
of an instance or the latter's class. So there is room for customizing various
descriptor instances using one class (not a metaclass). If you only need read
access, this is easy. If you want a r/w property you may have to go to a metaclass
solution unless you are willing to use  cvar.x = val or cvar[something] = var or
cvar.method(var) etc. -- i.e. return the descriptor self and have __setitem__ etc
as methods of the descriptor. You can hang something temporarily on self for use
in the subsequent method call, though I have the feeling there's some pitfall in
some uses of that. Anyway, here's a minimal descriptor (property is build on
the descriptor mechanisms, and you probably know all this, so I don't know why
I'm posting this ;-) IIRC, if you don't have a __set__ method, an attribute
assignment to an instance can shadow the descriptor, but not if you have __set__.
Of course, an attribute assignment to the class is no different than the original
class var assignment unless you have a descriptor/property in the metaclass to intercept it.

 >>> class Desc(object):
 ...     def __get__(self, inst, cls=None):
 ...         if inst is None: print 'accessed via class attribute'
 ...         else: accessed
 ...
 >>> class Desc(object):
 ...     def __get__(self, inst, cls=None):
 ...         if inst is None: print '%r accessed via class attribute' %cls
 ...         else:  print '%r accessed via instance attribute' %inst
 ...
 >>> class Foo(object):
 ...    cvar = Desc()
 ...
 >>> foo = Foo()
 >>> foo.cvar
 <__main__.Foo object at 0x009B61B0> accessed via instance attribute
 >>> Foo.cvar
 <class '__main__.Foo'> accessed via class attribute

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From cme at lampcoders.net  Thu Nov 18 05:33:14 2004
From: cme at lampcoders.net (Christian Meissner)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 11:33:14 +0100
Subject: Newbie:  Python & ADFGVX Cipher Cracking?
In-Reply-To: <cnhsjd$t3a$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
References: <4mJmd.1242$Tq6.565@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cnfoj7$fpq$1@news.mch.sbs.de> <301m1mF2ptcjrU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<cnhsjd$t3a$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <303c4qF2q6ibpU1@uni-berlin.de>

Andreas Lobinger schrieb:

> 
>    PID USERNAME THR PRI NICE  SIZE   RES STATE    TIME    CPU COMMAND
>  13062 lobinger   4  40    0 1196M 1191M cpu/7   12:19 12.49% python
>  13086 lobinger   1  58    0 7040K 4824K sleep    0:00  0.02% dtterm
>     69 root      15  41    0 8768K 7984K sleep   46:41  0.01% picld
> 
> I didn't claim it as a memory efficient solution...

such operations whould better developed in c, i hear ...

I'm a newbie too, so i don't claim to be an python god, i only wanna 
desc the behaviour on my system

Have fun
     Chris


From DesertLinux at netscape.net  Wed Nov 17 09:36:48 2004
From: DesertLinux at netscape.net (Byron)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:36:48 GMT
Subject: Newbie:  Python & ADFGVX Cipher Cracking?
Message-ID: <4mJmd.1242$Tq6.565@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Hello,

I am working on building a program that cracks "ADFGVX" ciphers. 
However, I have run into a minor problem, which has to do with figuring 
out all of the possible character re-arrangement combinations.  For 
example, see the example below:

The characters "ABC" can be re-arranged in several different possible ways:

1) ABC
2) BAC
3) BCA
4) ACB
5) CAB
6) CBA

Is there a python function in which I can sent a string of characters to 
-- and it will provide me with a list of all possible combinations 
available?

example function call:   possCharList = allCombinations("ABC")

Any help SINCERELY appreciated!!

Byron
---


From aljosa at mi2.hr  Wed Nov 10 05:57:09 2004
From: aljosa at mi2.hr (Aljosa Mohorovic)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:57:09 +0100
Subject: last pywin32 for win95
Message-ID: <cmss6h$hkr$1@bagan.srce.hr>

which is last pywin32 that works on win95?
i need it to access COM object and it needs to run on win95.
version fox this mix would be nice, something like:
python 2.3.4 -> which version
pywin32 b 202 -> which version
wxWindows -> which version
pysqlite -> which version

which version to use so this will work on windows 95. i know 
that win95 is no longer supported but there must be previous version
that worked?

  Aljosa


From roy at panix.com  Tue Nov 30 09:11:46 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:11:46 -0500
Subject: Syntax for extracting multiple items from a dictionary
References: <TuednaLvv_626THcRVn-hA@rcn.net>
Message-ID: <roy-4904E7.09114630112004@reader1.panix.com>

In article <TuednaLvv_626THcRVn-hA at rcn.net>, "shark" <no at spam.none> 
wrote:

> row = {"fname" : "Frank", "lname" : "Jones", "city" : "Hoboken", "state" :
> "Alaska"}
> cols = ("city", "state")
> 
> Is there a best-practices way to ask for an object containing only the keys
> named in cols out of row? In other words, to get this:
> {"city" : "Hoboken", "state" : "Alaska"}
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> shark

Just out of curiosity, why would you want to do that?  Are you trying to 
save on memory to store a lot of these things?  If so, I suspect you'd 
do even better (a few bytes per object) to store tuples of just the 
values, i.e. ("Hoboken", "Alaska"), and unpack them as you need them.

But, to answer your question, I don't know of any standard way to do 
what you want.  It's easy enough to write (a production version would 
probably want to catch KeyError's inside the for loop):

def getDictionarySlice (row, cols):
   slice = {}
   for key in cols:
      slice[key] = row[key]
   return slice

This won't work, but it would be kind of cool if it did:

def getOmnicientDictionarySlice (row, cols):
   for key not in cols:
      del row[key]

Hmmm.  Maybe there's an April Fools PEP in there somewhere :-)  
Actually, you could do:

def deleteUnwantedKeysInPlace (row, cols):
   for key in row.keys():
      if key not in cols:
         del row[key]


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 15 04:36:54 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:36:54 GMT
Subject: Combining arbitrary lists
References: <41982269$1_1@alt.athenanews.com>
	<mailman.6367.1100491265.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <419876e1.104196646@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:57:03 -0300, Mariano Draghi <mdraghi at prosud.com> wrote:

>Nick wrote:
>> Given that
>> 
>> n = [ [1, 2, 3], [4, 5, 6], [7, 8] ]
>> 
>> then the following code produces what I expect
>> 
>> for x in n[0]:
>>   for y in n[1]:
>>     for z in n[2]:
>>       print [x, y, z]
>
>...
>> 
>> How can I do this for an arbirary length of n?
>
>I think this is what you're looking for:
>http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/302478
>
Following is a slightly more compact generator (unless I goofed ;-)
(untested beyoud what you see here; probably traded a little speed for code lines)

 >>> n
 [[1, 2, 3], [4, 5, 6], [7, 8]]

 >>> def doit(LOL):
 ...     if not LOL: yield []; return
 ...     for h in LOL[0]:
 ...         for t in doit(LOL[1:]):
 ...             yield [h] + t
 ...
 >>> for row in doit(n): print row
 ...
 [1, 4, 7]
 [1, 4, 8]
 [1, 5, 7]
 [1, 5, 8]
 [1, 6, 7]
 [1, 6, 8]
 [2, 4, 7]
 [2, 4, 8]
 [2, 5, 7]
 [2, 5, 8]
 [2, 6, 7]
 [2, 6, 8]
 [3, 4, 7]
 [3, 4, 8]
 [3, 5, 7]
 [3, 5, 8]
 [3, 6, 7]
 [3, 6, 8]

 >>> for row in doit([[1,2],[3,4,5]]): print row
 ...
 [1, 3]
 [1, 4]
 [1, 5]
 [2, 3]
 [2, 4]
 [2, 5]


Regards,
Bengt Richter


From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Mon Nov  8 07:12:38 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 12:12:38 GMT
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com> <2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<60dfb6f6.0411050715.601f381f@posting.google.com>
	<2v82u3F2dhtcpU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrncouolm.mcv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>


I have tried to summarize this thread and created a new article on the
Python Wiki at

        http://www.python.org/moin/StrongVsWeakTyping

HTH,
Gabriel.

-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| There are works which wait,                                             |
| and which one does not understand for a long time; [...]                |
| for the question often arrives a terribly long time after the answer.   |
|                                                         (Oscar Wilde)   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From hpk at trillke.net  Tue Nov 30 09:34:13 2004
From: hpk at trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:34:13 +0100
Subject: py.test anyone?
In-Reply-To: <cnt6vq$b9p$1@newshost.mot.com>
References: <cnt6vq$b9p$1@newshost.mot.com>
Message-ID: <20041130143413.GA29839@solar.trillke.net>

Hi Stephen, 

[Stephen Boulet Mon, Nov 22, 2004 at 11:14:57AM -0600]
> Have people been using py.test? I was hoping to try it out but was 
> running into subversion problems (behind a corporate firewall, though 
> there is a windows registry hack for that which didn't work for me).

you may try to use the svn apache instance at 8080 aka 

    svn co http://codespeak.net:8080/svn/py/dist distpy 

Also please note that 'py.test' has not been released yet. 
I plan to release it beginning of next year after it 
received some more development and a big real-life integration into 
the PyPy project. Nevertheless, there is quite some documentation 
under the 'py.test' link found here: 

    http://codespeak.net/py/current/doc/ 

there also is a "getting started" link which now incorporates 
the above ":8080" suggestion. 

have fun, 

    holger


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov 15 19:51:38 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 01:51:38 +0100
Subject: Splitting a class definition into several files?
References: <46850fd1.0411151508.53dd3c53@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cnbiul$evs$00$2@news.t-online.com>

Jerry wrote:

> My "main" class is getting a bit long...Is it possble to split a class
> definition into several files and then import the pieces to get the whole
> definition?

I think there is some design issue if you really have a problem like this.

Apart from that, it should be possible to compose your main class by
inheriting from several subclasses that are in distinct files, like this:

---file A ---

class A:
    def a(self):
        pass

---file B ---

class B:
    def b(self):
        pass

---file main ---

class Main(A,B):
    def __init__(self):
        pass

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From danperl at rogers.com  Tue Nov 23 14:55:54 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:55:54 -0500
Subject: Is there a consensus on how to check a polymorphic instance?
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>
	<Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<donn-910064.10130823112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <UbGdndfmz5VQCD7cRVn-pA@rogers.com>


"Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message 
news:donn-910064.10130823112004 at gnus01.u.washington.edu...
> Not only are there many definitions of polymorphism, there are
> several kinds of polymorphism, each with many definitions.  You
> could spend some time with a web search engine and get lots of
> reading material on this, and I think you would find that a good
> deal of it is coming from a point of view that kind of tends to
> ignore object oriented programming altogether.  Check it out.
> If you want to stay with the more immediately relevant OOP
> thinking on this, search for polymorphism and smalltalk.
>
> Note that C++ and Java need two mechanisms in support of something
> approximating parametric polymorphism.  The subtype polymorphism
> I think you're thinking of is the classic OO device, but it doesn't
> support really generic functions and types.  The template system
> has been bolted onto these languages (I gather Java has one now)
> for this purpose.  With these two mechanisms, they more or less
> support parametric polymorphism, in a statically typed, compiled
> language.  Python is not statically typed, of course, so where
> the literature about parametric polymorphism focuses on types
> you have to decide for yourself how important that is in principle.
> In the end it of course doesn't really matter what you call it.

Yes, you are right, subtype polymorphism is what I had in mind and I was 
implicitly questioning on the acceptance of 'polymorphism' as one type or 
the other, even though I was not aware of the formal separation between the 
two types.  Having learned of polymorphism years ago in the C++ and Java 
context where it was used only the sense of subtype polymorphism, it was 
still the way I interpreted the term in the subject line of this thread. 
>From now on I will keep in mind the more general meaning of parametric 
polymorphism.

Dan

>   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu 




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Nov  2 09:06:31 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 09:06:31 -0500
Subject: wxPython frame
In-Reply-To: <41872581$1@news.seeder.net>
References: <41872581$1@news.seeder.net>
Message-ID: <8vudne1Ckdj7CRrcRVn-jA@powergate.ca>

Austin wrote:
> In tkinter, the dialogs  has the function grab_set(). That means disable
> other windows while it's open.
> Is there any function like that in wxPython. I want to use it on my frame.
> For example, a.py is main frame. There is a button "config" to open
> b.py(config frame).
> If the function exists in wxPython, i could put that in b.py when b.py is
> open and we couldn't
> click a.py. Or any other ways to avoid click a.py when b.py is open.

The wxPython mailing list is probably a better way to get
good answers to wxPython questions.

-Peter


From keithmoore1 at adelphia.net  Mon Nov  8 06:27:16 2004
From: keithmoore1 at adelphia.net (Keith Moore)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 06:27:16 -0500
Subject: Import Python Class/methods into C++
Message-ID: <ONEPLGMKGPCDFOGMEHMIIENLCMAA.keithmoore1@adelphia.net>

I'm a Python newbie,

Can anyone show me an example of how to import a python class into a C++
program?
I am able to use PyImort_ImportModule to import a module, and
PyObject_GetAttrString to import the function from the module.
Now I converted that module to a class.  I need to import methods from that
class into my C++ program.

Help!!!

Keith



From kent at kentsjohnson.com  Mon Nov  1 21:38:09 2004
From: kent at kentsjohnson.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 21:38:09 -0500
Subject: general class functions
In-Reply-To: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>
References: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4186f23d$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

syd wrote:
> In my project, I've got dozens of similar classes with hundreds of
> description variables in each.  In my illustrative example below, I
> have a Library class that contains a list of Nation classes.  In one
> case, I might want a Library class with only Nations of with the
> continent variable "Europe", and so I'll do something like
> library.getContinent('Europe') which will return a Library() instance
> with only European nations.  Similarly, I could also want a Library()
> instance with only 'small' size nations.
> 
> My question follows: is there a way I can make a general function for
> getting a subclass with my specific criteria?  For instance, can I
> pass in an equivalence test or something like that?  I have hundreds
> of variables like "nation", "continent", and so forth, and do want to
> write a separate "get______" function for each.

You can use getattr to read the Nation attributes by name. Add this 
method to Library:
   def getMatches(self,attribute, value):
     library=Library()
     for nation in self.list:
       if getattr(nation, attribute) == value:
         library.add(nation)
     return library

Now you can call
print library.getMatches('continent', 'Europe').getNameList()
print library.getMatches('continent', 'Europe').getMatches('size', 
'small').getNameList()

Is that what you want?
Kent

> 
> This stumped everyone I work with.  Help would be greatly
> appreciated!!
> 
> #!/usr/bin/python
> class Library:
>   def __init__(self,list=None):
>     self.list=list
>   def add(self,nation):
>     try: self.list.append(nation)
>     except: self.list=[nation]
>   def defineNation(self,name,continent,size):
>     nation=Library.Nation()
>     nation.name=name
>     nation.continent=continent
>     nation.size=size
>     self.add(nation)
>   def getContinent(self,continent):
>     library=Library()
>     for nation in self.list:
>       if nation.isContinent(continent)==True:
>         library.add(nation)
>     return library
>   def getSize(self,size):
>     library=Library()
>     for nation in self.list:
>       if nation.isSize(size)==True:
>         library.add(nation)
>     return library
>   def getNameList(self):
>     outList=[]
>     for nation in self.list:
>       outList.append(nation.name)
>     return outList
>   class Nation:
>     def __init__(self,name=None,continent=None,size=None):
>       self.name=name # eg, Spain
>       self.continent=continent # eg, Europe
>       self.size=size # eg, medium
>     def isContinent(self,continent):
>       if self.continent==continent: return True
>       else: return False    def isSize(self,size):
>       if self.size==size: return True
>       else: return False
> 
> library=Library()
> library.defineNation('Spain','Europe','medium')
> library.defineNation('USA','NorthAmerica','large')
> library.defineNation('Luxembourg','Europe','small')
> library.defineNation('Portugal','Europe','medium')
> 
> print library.getNameList()
> print library.getContinent('Europe').getNameList()
> print library.getContinent('Europe').getSize('small').getNameList()


From mfuhr at fuhr.org  Fri Nov 19 11:48:18 2004
From: mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 09:48:18 -0700
Subject: Python client lib for PostgreSQL8
References: <cni6e4$dl9$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<419cb98c$1_3@omega.dimensional.com>
	<cnko44$qro$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <419e23d2$1_2@omega.dimensional.com>

Peter Maas <peter at somewhere.com> writes:

> Michael Fuhr schrieb:
> >>Is there already a PyPgSQL version in CVS or another client library
> >>that handles PostgreSQL 8?
> > 
> > A lot of people like psycopg.
> > 
> > http://initd.org/software/initd/psycopg
>
> Thanks, Michael. Does it handle PostgreSQL 8beta?

Yes -- I use psycopg with the PostgreSQL 8.0 betas.

> Now I've made the jump to a Linux workstation but I still prefer
> software that I can install on several platforms without hassle.
> I don't have any clue what advantages psycopg has over pyPgSQL.
> Are there comparisons / benchmarks available?

Psycopg can be a lot faster than pyPgSQL or PyGreSQL, especially
when retrieving large data sets.  You could google for comparisons,
but the most meaningful benchmarks would be those that you ran
against your own data.

-- 
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/


From merman at snafu.de  Mon Nov  8 14:49:14 2004
From: merman at snafu.de (T. Kaufmann)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 20:49:14 +0100
Subject: MySQLdb installation
In-Reply-To: <tTPjd.865546$Gx4.820463@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
References: <418f99db$0$175$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<tTPjd.865546$Gx4.820463@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <418fcc56$0$165$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

wes weston wrote:
> T. Kaufmann wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> RDBMS MySQL works fine on my machine. I want to install MySQL-python 
>> 1.0.0 under Red Hat 9.0.
>>
>>  >>> platform.platform()
>> 'Linux-2.4.20-8-i686-with-redhat-9-Shrike'
>>
>> There are some problems. If I call python
>>
>> setup.py build
>>
>> there are lots of errors:
>>
>> _mysql.c:41:19: mysql.h: File not found
>>
>> What can I do? How can I fix it?
>>
>> o-o
>>
>> Thomas
> 
> 
> Thomas,
>    I believe the mysql.h file that is not being found
> is part of the mysql developement package (and not the
> MySQLDB package). If you do have mysql.h somewhere, it
> is not in your include path.
> wes

Yes, it could be the problem. I searched the header (with 'locate 
mysql.h') - but there is no such file on my machine.

Thanks for help.

o-o

Thomas


From remi at cherrypy.org  Thu Nov 18 13:31:36 2004
From: remi at cherrypy.org (Remi Delon)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 10:31:36 -0800
Subject: ANN: CherryTemplate-1.0.0 released
Message-ID: <585c0de9.0411181031.3f4ec27b@posting.google.com>

Hello everyone,

I'm happy to announce the first release of CherryTemplate, an easy and
powerful templating system in python.

Note that it is not "yet another templating system" because it used to
be part of CherryPy, but is now released as a standalone package.

Basically, you use it like this:

$ python
Python 2.3.3 (#51, Dec 18 2003, 20:22:39) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from cherrytemplate import renderTemplate
>>> name = "world"
>>> renderTemplate('Hello, <py-eval="name"/>')
'Hello, world'

The language only has a few tags: py-eval, py-exec, py-code, py-if,
py-for, py-include but it is quite powerful because most of python's
power is still available from the template:
    - "py-for" allows you to do things like <py-for="i,j in [(0,0),
(1,2), (3,1)]">
    - "py-code" allows you to insert full blocks of pure python code
inside your template (it takes care of the indentation for you)

CherryTemplate can also render external templates (ex:
renderTemplate(file = 'template.html')) and has full unicode support.

Once nice feature about it is that is uses generators to render your
template, so if you need to process a large amount of data you can
tell it to return a generator, and then you can loop through it. This
way it doesn't use up too much memory. Here is an example:

>>> template = '''<py-for="i in
range(5)">i:<py-eval="str(i)"/></py-for>'''
>>> result = renderTemplate(template, returnGenerator = True)
>>> for res in result: print repr(res)
'i:'
'0'
'i:'
'1'
'i:'
'2'
'i:'
'3'
'i:'
'4'
>>>

You can find more information (including the download link) on this
page: http://trac.cherrypy.org/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/wiki/CherryTemplate

Remi.


From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Thu Nov  4 18:13:48 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 15:13:48 -0800
Subject: How do you execute an OS X application (bundle) from Python?
References: <70bb9f8d.0411040250.1f4ac1a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0411041513.120fc039@posting.google.com>

dfh at forestfield.co.uk (David Hughes) wrote in message news:<70bb9f8d.0411040250.1f4ac1a at posting.google.com>...
> For example, in Python in a Nutshell, Alex Martelli shows how you can
> run a Windows (notepad.exe) or Unix-like (/bin/vim) text editor using
>       os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, editor, [textfile])
> But how would you call the OS X text editor /Applications/TextEdit.app
> - which appears to be a whole directory inside /Applications?

Using os.system to execute open is pretty simple, as other folks have
pointed out. The other way is to use Apple events, the standard
high-level IPC system used by Mac GUI apps. The AE support currently
in the standard library leaves something to be desired and is due for
replacement. Much improved, though unfinished, AE support is available
from my site:

http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/appscript.html

Fastest way to open a document is via the lower-level aem package
(lower overheads, though you have to use raw AE codes):

from aem.send import Application
from Carbon.File import FSSpec
Application('/Applications/TextEdit.app').event('aevt', 'odoc',
{'----':FSSpec(pathToFile)}).send()


Alternatively, the high-level appscript package wraps all this stuff
in OO-like syntactic sugar and human-readable terminology (takes
longer to initialise as it has to retrieve and parse the application
terminology):

from appscript import *
app('TextEdit.app').open(FSSpec(pathToFile))


HTH


From grante at visi.com  Mon Nov 29 14:13:56 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 29 Nov 2004 19:13:56 GMT
Subject: Protecting Python source
References: <f4a45085.0411260701.5859bf43@posting.google.com>
	<lnSpd.18976$Km6.232360@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<coesrc$24i$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<mailman.6877.1101742321.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cofrqd$1d5$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <41ab74f4$0$85031$a1866201@visi.com>

On 2004-11-29, Peter Maas <peter at somewhere.com> wrote:

> If the "reverse engineering" argument boils down to "protecting source
> doesn't make sense" then why does Microsoft try so hard to  protect
> its sources?

To avoid embarassment.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Why don't you
                                  at               ever enter and CONTESTS,
                               visi.com            Marvin?? Don't you know
                                                   your own ZIPCODE?


From Kingdom.Lin at yeah.net  Mon Nov 22 02:06:14 2004
From: Kingdom.Lin at yeah.net (Donnie Leen)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:06:14 +0800
Subject: question about PyImport_ExecCodeModule and module import
Message-ID: <20041122070533.9DB9C1E4002@bag.python.org>

I try to use PyImport_ExecCodeModule and some other function to import modules. I found that count reference of the return value of PyImport_ExecCodeModule is 2, if i don't need it any more i use Py_DECREF to reduce the reference it remains 1 and not be destroied, it stay in the memory even i don't neek it, why this happed?

Another question is how to import the module returned from PyImport_ExecCodeModule, i tried for many times and just find a way to import correctly: use PyRun_RunSimpleString( "import mymodulename" ), is there any better way to import it?

Thanks for any help.




Donnie Leen





From ndeskins at ecn.purdue.edu  Mon Nov 22 10:01:45 2004
From: ndeskins at ecn.purdue.edu (Aaron Deskins)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:01:45 -0500
Subject: Global variables in modules/functions
In-Reply-To: <419e9e02$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <cnltf7$ra6$1@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> <419e9e02$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <cnsv0p$5c9$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu>

Thanks! That works great.

Scott David Daniels wrote:

> 
> The easiest way to do this is to create a module named "globals", and
> have any modules wanting to work like:
> 
> import globals
> ...
> def change_n():
>     globals.n = 2
> 


From lynn at crazedimaginations.net  Sat Nov 20 02:25:25 2004
From: lynn at crazedimaginations.net (Lynn)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:25:25 -0800
Subject: stopping the sound server in PySol code -- how?
References: <iqAnd.69632$SW3.42915@fed1read01> <cnmqq0$l6n$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <zjCnd.69642$SW3.14459@fed1read01>

Robert Kern wrote:

> Lynn wrote:
>> I have a SuSe 9.1 linux box (although this isn't a new issue) with
>> reasonably up to date everything.  When I run PySol, it grabs the sound
>> system in a rude and complete way.
>> 
>> I don't listen to sound and I NEED my sound system available even if
>> PySol is running.
>> 
>> Does anyone have a simple way of ripping the sound functionality our of
>> PySol?  I've not enough of a python programmer to deal with this.
>> Everything I've tried has just generated a ton of errors.
> 
> How did you install PySol? RPMs? Is there a PySol-sound package that you
> can choose not to install? If PySol doesn't find its sound support
> module, it won't bother with sound.
> 

It is via an RPM.  I think it's the one that came with SuSE 9.1.  It
installed pysolsoundserver.so.  I renamed that file to see if not finding
it would be enough.  But the script failed because it couldn't find it.

I will try uninstalling the rpm and getting the PySol source.

-- 
Peace, Love and Absolute Pleasure
Crazed Imaginations RHPS cast
www.crazedimaginations.net


From eddie at kickingdragon.com  Sat Nov 13 15:24:50 2004
From: eddie at kickingdragon.com (Eddie Parker)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 13:24:50 -0700
Subject: Advice needed
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.13.20.00.07.377585@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <E1CT4SZ-0004AF-00@galvatron.kickingdragon.com>

God can make mistakes too -- look at Country music. :)

-e-

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+eddie=kickingdragon.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+eddie=kickingdragon.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
Paul Robson
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 1:00 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Advice needed

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 16:57:41 +0000, Premshree Pillai wrote:

> Lots of reasons why you should learn Python. I'll
> leave that to others in the mailing-list. :)
> 
> I'm not sure where I heard the following, but I've
> heard it:
> "If God did OOP, he'd do it in Python."

If God did it he might have figured out len() should be a method...
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 11/1/2004
 

---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 11/1/2004
 



From peter at somewhere.com  Thu Nov 11 03:44:30 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:44:30 +0100
Subject: Iterating over PDF documents
Message-ID: <cmv9j2$et5$1@swifty.westend.com>

Hi,

I'm trying to edit a PDF document line-wise. This is more difficult
than I thought, because PDF uses a mixture of all line terminators
available in *X, Mac and Win so that utilizing "for line in file"
is difficult. I tried universal newline but that spoils the document
apparently. What other options do I have besides writing my own PDF
line iterator?. All options have to be quick hacks as I have already
invested some time in existing code and the deadline is approaching
fast :)

Thanks for your help.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From meng.yan at gmail.com  Tue Nov 23 01:40:10 2004
From: meng.yan at gmail.com (Mike Meng)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 22:40:10 -0800
Subject: Is there a consensus on how to check a polymorphic instance?
In-Reply-To: <Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
Message-ID: <1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

hi Steve,
Your example is helpful. Thank you.

Here is my problem. My project needs to parse some user input
string according to  specific rules. The rules can be defined with a
string, a CSV file, an XML file, and other forms. Followed the standard
OO style,  I designed a dictionary-like base class to abstract those
different sources and provides other parts a uniform interface to query
those rules.  I put some hard code into the base class and expect user
to inherit from it.

    Any good suggestion?

Mike



From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  8 13:32:43 2004
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (G. S. Hayes)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 10:32:43 -0800
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<87d5ysbkq9.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<4b39d922.0411051555.24f31663@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <96c2e938.0411081032.1579fcaf@posting.google.com>

finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse) wrote in message news:<4b39d922.0411051555.24f31663 at posting.google.com>...
> Yes, wxPython is typically quicker than swing.  It's not fair to use
> this in a generic Python-vs-Java speed shootout, though, since
> wxPython is just a wrapper around wxWidgets' C++ code; you're really
> comparing C++ vs. Java here. 

But the ease of development of extensions in other languages and the
willingness of the community to do so IS one of the key differences
between Java and Python, especially with respect to performance. 
Where Java tends to be platform independent, Python tends to be
platform agnostic.  In real code, people use SciPy/NumPy, wxpython,
etc because those things work for them and get the job done.

Moreover, since the GUI developer in Python is writing only in Python
(never touching C++ or needing to know about it at all), you're
basically saying that this example is unfair because Python has a
faster implementation.


From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Sun Nov  7 08:05:21 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 14:05:21 +0100
Subject: Python OS
In-Reply-To: <418CDE71.4080303@cloudthunder.com>
References: <418CDE71.4080303@cloudthunder.com>
Message-ID: <20041107130521.GA3456@nl.linux.org>

Richard Blackwood wrote:
> Is it possible to prototype an operating system in Python?  If so, what 
> would such a task entail? (i.e. How would one write a boot-loader in 
> Python?)

You might want to look at http://cleese.sf.net/

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 07/11 13:25:
	12.0?C   wind 3.6 m/s N (57 m above NAP)
-- 
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of
unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the
military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of
misplaced power exists and will persist.
    -Dwight David Eisenhower, January 17, 1961


From apetchame at puntex.es  Tue Nov  2 10:32:00 2004
From: apetchame at puntex.es (apetchame at puntex.es)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 16:32:00 +0100
Subject: MDaemon Warning - virus found: error
Message-ID: <20041102153349.0F8891E4002@bag.python.org>


******************************* WARNING ******************************
Este mensaje ha sido analizado por MDaemon AntiVirus y ha encontrado 
un fichero anexo(s) infectado(s).  Por favor revise el reporte de abajo.

Attachment                    Virus name               Action taken
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**********************************************************************


The original message was received at Tue, 2 Nov 2004 16:32:00 +0100 from puntex.es [89.65.49.203]

----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
python-list at python.org

----- Transcript of the session follows -----
... while talking to 128.163.19.102:
550 5.1.2 <python-list at python.org>... Host unknown (Name server: host not found)


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov 18 22:34:59 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 03:34:59 GMT
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
	number of output arguments)
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6361.1100470915.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cn95k1$bfq$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6371.1100498345.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnb7hi.1hwbltbftm6c1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6392.1100556222.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbg4k.13z20mj1w1o0ysN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de> <419bbf2a.319309032@news.oz.net>
	<1gnf7n6.1spfeu41yhjcdaN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <419cc167.385418983@news.oz.net>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 08:56:30 +0100, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

>Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
>   ...
[...]
>
>> Still, as Carlos pointed out, formal parameter names
>> are private to a function,
(If I misunderstood and misrepresented what Carlos wrote, I apologize)
>
>? No they're not -- a caller knows them, in order to be able to call
>with named argument syntax.
>
I guess you mean keyword arguments, so yes, but for other args I would argue that the caller's
knowledge of formal parameter names really only serves mnemonic purposes.
I.e., once the calling code is written, e.g. an obfuscated-symbols
version of the function may be substituted with no change in program
behavior. So in that sense, there is no coupling: the writer of the
calling code is not forced to use any of the function's internal names
in _his_ source code. This is in contrast with e.g. a returned dict or
name-enhanced tuple: he _is_ forced to use the given actual names in _his_ code,
much like keyword arguments again.

That, incidentally, is why Carlos' decorator suggestion looked good to me. I.e.,
if it could be used to wrap an outside function that returns a plain tuple,
the choice of names would be back in the caller's source code again. Let' see if I can find
it to quote ... not far away...

"""
@returns('year','month','day')
def today():
    ...
    return year, month, day
"""
Applying that (ignoring optimization ;-) to an outside function:

@returns('year','month','day')
def today(*args,**kw):
    return outside_function(*args, **kw)

which my some magic would create a today function than returned
a named tuple, with names chosen by the call coder.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From grante at visi.com  Wed Nov 17 22:44:57 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 03:44:57 GMT
Subject: psSerial: how to write a single byte value to the serial port?
References: <5a050156.0411170057.6c27a6a4@posting.google.com>
	<419b2f5f.282498301@news.oz.net>
	<5a050156.0411171153.6f04b454@posting.google.com>
	<cngalv$t5j$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<5a050156.0411171909.2c7d500@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <419c1ab9$0$220$a1866201@visi.com>

On 2004-11-18, SoftwareTester <mr_ravi_patil at yahoo.com> wrote:

>> >>> type(byte)
>> <type 'str'>
>> 
>> Its a string as well.
>
> I am concerned because I do not know the effect of writing null
> character to the device connected to the serial byte.

I don't understand what you're concerned about.  Python doesn't
use null-delimited strings.

> I wish to send a single byte to the serial port and nothing more.

In Python, a "single byte" is just a string of length one.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Eisenhower!! Your
                                  at               mimeograph machine upsets
                               visi.com            my stomach!!


From losnations at comcast.net  Tue Nov 30 23:48:39 2004
From: losnations at comcast.net (Catfish)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 22:48:39 -0600
Subject: pickle and py2exe
References: <qphqq0poq7d842fvm6hvu2gah4amh4l70k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <zY6dnRhjZ_qy0DDcRVn-rg@comcast.com>

I did this a while back, and I can't remember exactly. Therefore, I may only 
be able to give you a push in the right direction until someone else can 
answer it fully.

However, I think you have to force the db into the py2exe compile. I think 
it's something like this:

--force-imports dbhash

Try this and see if it works.


"Justin Straube" <justinstraube at charter.net> wrote in message 
news:qphqq0poq7d842fvm6hvu2gah4amh4l70k at 4ax.com...
> Hello,
>
> Im trying to compile a script with py2exe. The pickle module is causing 
> the
> program to give an error.
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "SETIstat.pyw", line 330, in ?
>  File "SETIstat.pyw", line 84, in start_up
>  File "SETIstat.pyw", line 79, in config_load
>  File "pickle.pyc", line 1390, in load
>  File "pickle.pyc", line 872, in load
>  File "pickle.pyc", line 985, in load_string
> LookupError: unknown encoding: string-escape
>
> the data in the pickled file is a dictionary containing a couple strings. 
> The
> strings do contain \n and \t charaters but no other special characters or
> anything.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions to what I can try to get around this? The
> pickle module works fine when the .pyw file is run. Its only when I 
> compile this
> is there an issue.
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Justin 




From jdcrane7 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 15 10:44:00 2004
From: jdcrane7 at yahoo.com (Jack Crane)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:44:00 -0800
Subject: Range of valid years for calendar module?
Message-ID: <Xns95A24EAB475Fjdcrane7yahoocom@130.133.1.4>

Here's my calendar_for_specified_year.py. 

==============================================
# calendar_for_specified_year.py
# print any year's calendar from 1753 A.D. through at least 3999 A.D.

import calendar

calendar.setfirstweekday(6) # sets first day of week to Sunday

year = int(raw_input("Year for which to print calendar: "))

print "\n\n"
calendar.prcal(year)
===============================================

I've been trying to find out the range of years for which it will give me 
a valid calendar, and I've come up with "from 1753 to at least 3999". I 
used <http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/index.html?year=4000&country=1> 
which seems to give calendars for years 1-3999. 

Does anyone know the actual range for the calendar module?

Thanks,

Jack


From nemesis at nowhere.invalid  Wed Nov 17 16:06:39 2004
From: nemesis at nowhere.invalid (Nemesis)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:06:39 GMT
Subject: [ANN] XPN 0.3.5 released
Message-ID: <8eegnc.vq3.ln@orion.homeinvalid>

XPN is an on-line newsreader with unicode support. It's written in
Python using GTK+2 toolkit and works wherever Python and GTK+2 work.
It also has features like scoring, random taglines, search ...

You can find it on:
http://xpn.altervista.org/index-en.html
http://sf.net/projects/xpn

Changes in this version:

    * v0.3.5: Improved speed when you open an article
    * v0.3.5: fixed a bug in the smtp connection
    * v0.3.5: fixed (again) a date sorting bug
    * v0.3.5: now you can hide read articles
    * v0.3.5: added spoiler char (^L or formfeed) support.
    * v0.3.5: added "mute quote" and "mute signature" features
    * v0.3.5: added "Supersede Article" and "Cancel Article" features
    * v0.3.5: added three buttons "A" "H" "G" that let you zoom the Article/Headers/Groups Pane
    * v0.3.5: reorganized the Score Window
    * v0.3.5: added a Regular Expression Tester in the Score Window
-- 
Age is only important if you're a cheese.
 
 |\ |       |HomePage   : http://nem01.altervista.org
 | \|emesis |XPN (my nr): http://xpn.altervista.org



From rrarey at gmail.com  Mon Nov  8 10:16:46 2004
From: rrarey at gmail.com (Ray)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 07:16:46 -0800
Subject: xml.dom.minidom appendChild/toxml formatting problem
References: <6471d296.0411051330.1477041@posting.google.com>
	<d116fbae.0411061834.57b79bf3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6471d296.0411080716.6328e419@posting.google.com>

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.  I was able to get it to do what I
wanted by replacing my call with toprettyxml() with a call to
xml.dom.ext.PrettyPrint().

news:<d116fbae.0411061834.57b79bf3 at posting.google.com>...
> rrarey at gmail.com (Ray) wrote in message news:<6471d296.0411051330.1477041 at posting.google.com>...
> 
> [SNIP]
> 
> > after calling domi.normalize(), domi.toxml(), and
> > configFile.write(), the XML looks like:
> > <Cluster Name="RAYTEST">
> >    <Cluster Name="RAYTEST2"><Cluster Name="RAYTEST3"/></Cluster>
> > </Cluster>
> > 
> > instead of how I would like it to look, which would be:
> > <Cluster Name="RAYTEST">
> >    <Cluster Name="RAYTEST2">
> >       <Cluster Name="RAYTEST3"/>
> >    </Cluster>
> > </Cluster>
> > 
> > Or, if I append "RAYTEST3" to "RAYTEST", it comes out as:
> > <Cluster Name="RAYTEST">
> >    <Cluster Name="RAYTEST2"/>
> > <Cluster Name="RAYTEST3"/></Cluster>
> > 
> > Instead of:
> > <Cluster Name="RAYTEST">
> >    <Cluster Name="RAYTEST2"/>
> >    <Cluster Name="RAYTEST3"/>
> > </Cluster>
> > 
> > 
> > The rest of the XML file retains its original whitespace and
> > linebreaks.  How can I get this to format the new changes correctly? 
> > Calling toprettyxml instead of toxml seems to double the whitespace
> > and linebreaks in the rest of the file.
> 
> There are many solutions to this, all of which require that you
> properly understand what nodes are really there in a given DOM (and in
> particular, understanding exactly how text nodes work).
> 
> One good way I've found for getting people familiar with the actual
> DOM tree structure is using a GUi tree widget.  See, for instance
> listing 2 in:
> 
> http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2003/04/09/py-xml.html
> 
> Anyway, for the "pretty printing confused thinsg by only adding
> whitespace" complaint, I suggest you strip whitespace first.  There
> are many libraries with routines for this, but you could start with
> the following cookbook recipe if you like:
> 
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/303061
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> -- 
> Uche Ogbuji                                    Fourthought, Inc.
> http://uche.ogbuji.net    http://4Suite.org    http://fourthought.com
> A hands-on introduction to ISO Schematron -
> http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/edu/x-dw-xschematron-i.html
> Schematron abstract patterns -
> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-stron.html
> Wrestling HTML (using Python) -
> http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2004/09/08/pyxml.html
> XML's growing pains - http://www.adtmag.com/article.asp?id=10196
> XMLOpen and more XML Hacks -
> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-think27.html
> A survey of XML standards -
> http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-stand4/


From philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net  Thu Nov  4 10:44:05 2004
From: philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:44:05 -0600
Subject: Python extension compatibility
Message-ID: <200411040944.05682.philippecmartin@sbcglobal.net>

Hi,

*** QUICK BACKGROUND ***
-)I have been  working with pycsc.c in which I made a few modifications.
-)When I had it working un linux - I attempted to port it to Windows
-) I read a lot, downloaded mingwin and had pexports crash when I attempted to 
get the .def out of winscard.dll
-) I then attempted to create the .def by hand with no luck
-) I read some more and decided I would have ess problems with Visual 
Studio .NET (sigh) - so I broked down and invested
-) the setup.py failed on python 2.3 because V6 was required
-) I read there was a patch but also that the laster 2.4B was compiled with VS 
7.1 (which I assumed meant .NET)
-) Downloaded it, everyting compiled and linked fine - had to copy the files 
by hand to the right locations and everyting worked great.
***************************************
Now for the question:

Since pycsc does not use any brand new Python functionality, are the binaries 
be compatible with earlier versions of Python ? down to which ?


Regards,

Philippe


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Nov 19 14:50:34 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:50:34 -0800
Subject: Question about thread
In-Reply-To: <1100882500.311734@eng-ser4>
References: <1100875373.911763@eng-ser6>
	<306ic5F2svtsdU1@uni-berlin.de>	<1100879122.755150@eng-ser4>
	<mailman.6607.1100881214.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1100882500.311734@eng-ser4>
Message-ID: <419e616c$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Valkyrie wrote:
> Thank you for your advice. I have quite seriously searched for it in fact, but
> just without the luck on finding such article...
Can you suggest where this information might have shown up
that you would have found it?  If so, you may want to submit
a documentation bug or patch request.  That is, repay the
group by making it more likely that the next person with your
problem finds their answer on their own.

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From exarkun at divmod.com  Tue Nov 30 10:04:31 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:04:31 GMT
Subject: SOAPpy/ZSI/Twisted SOAP over stdin/stdout?
In-Reply-To: <xqxy8gjbehd.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <20041130150431.17481.1173120860.divmod.quotient.12133@ohm>

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:25:50 GMT, Harry George <harry.g.george at boeing.com> wrote:
>Normally the SOAP Servers are designed to take control of a port and
> run their own sockets via inheritance from SocktServer.
> 
> But under inetd and xinetd, the port is controlled elsewhere and the
> service just gets the stdin/stdout. I need to configure (or tweak) one
> of the SOAP servers to use that connection.
> 
> Has anyone done this with any of the above named SOAP servers?
> Recommmendations or hints if I try it myself?
> 

  Twisted can run any protocol over stdio.

  Check out

    http://twistedmatrix.com/documents/current/examples/stdin.py

  and

    http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-python

  Jp


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Mon Nov 29 18:17:58 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:17:58 -0800
Subject: Numeric: 'where' function conditions
In-Reply-To: <311o97F300hdgU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <311o97F300hdgU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cogan6$kt0$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Jorl Shefner wrote:
> Could anyone tell me the efficient way to do this?   Extracting values 
> from an array for a single condition (say all values greater than 'x') 
> using 'where' and 'compress' is simple enough.  
> 
> 
>>>>from Numeric import arange,where,compress
>>>>data= arange(10)
>>>>data= [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
>>>>mask= where((data > 3),1,0)
>>>>result= compress(mask,data)
>>>>result
> 
> array([4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9])
> 
> But, 'where' doesn't appear to allow for multiple conditions in one 
> statement.  For instance, I'd like to do something like:
> 
> mask= where((3 < data <= 7),1,0)
> 
> but, this won't work.

Right. "3 < data" creates an array of 0s and 1s where the condition is 
false and true, respectively. You don't need where() at all.

Try

mask = logical_and(3 < data, data <= 7)

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Tue Nov 16 23:13:36 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 23:13:36 -0500
Subject: Rounding curiosity
In-Reply-To: <20041116182254.6cb5a603.bartley9@pacbell.net>
References: <20041116182254.6cb5a603.bartley9@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <1f7befae0411162013d3423e8@mail.gmail.com>

[PyBo]
> What's wrong with this picture?
> 
> >>> x = 500000000.0
> >>> y = x / (1024 * 1024)
> >>> y
> 476.837158203125
> >>> z = round(y, 2)
> >>> z
> 476.83999999999997

What's wrong is that you haven't yet read the Python tutorial's
appendix on floating-point issues.  That much is easily repaired
<wink>:

    http://docs.python.org/tut/node15.html


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Thu Nov 11 16:06:50 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:06:50 -0200
Subject: How to load new class definitions at runtime?
Message-ID: <864d37090411111306159e40e8@mail.gmail.com>

I'm looking for ways to load new class definitions at runtime (I'm not
talking about object instances here, so a persistent object database
isn't what I am looking for [1]). I'm aware of a few options, but I
would like to discuss the possible side effects for a potentially big,
long running application server.

I am developing a business application based on workflow concepts. The
model is quite simple: a business process is modelled as a sequence of
tasks connected by actions. Actions can be re-used in different
contexts. The result is a very complex graph. Processes, tasks and
actions are implemented as classes. I opted to declare each action as
a different class, because each action has different Python code
attached to it. So simple object instances would not cut it. To allow
the system to be customized without taking the application server
offline, there must be a solution for these new class definitions to
be loaded at runtime.

My current solution is simple. Class definitions have to be executed,
and for it to work, the class name and the source code (or the
compiled bytecode) is stored in a database. A class factory function
retrieves the correct class definition (based on the name), and simply
executes the code.

Now, talking about executing arbitrary code retrieved from a database
isn't exactly a safe proposition. But I can't see any other way to
make it work. I'm now looking for more ideas on how do other people
solved the same problem in other projects. Pointers are welcome.
Thanks in advance,

---
[1] ... or at least I assume so.
-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From ora.et.labora at web.de  Sat Nov 20 11:56:48 2004
From: ora.et.labora at web.de (wolfgang haefelinger)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 16:56:48 GMT
Subject: please ignore
Message-ID: <kHKnd.22741$jf.19368@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>

stupid test - please ignore 




From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Sun Nov  7 15:55:27 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 21:55:27 +0100
Subject: Python OS
References: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmin1n$500$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.6003.1099752590.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmiorc$j4b$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.6021.1099783808.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmk7r1$4d0$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<mailman.6059.1099837930.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmldu9$a72$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.6080.1099848517.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmlr0j$m3p$00$1@news.t-online.com> <x78y9dquj3.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <cmm23s$7lg$05$1@news.t-online.com>

> OS's have been written for VMs (LISP and Forth) that didn't have the
> notion of interrupt before they were built. For LISPMs, interrupt
> handlers are LISP objects (*). Java may not be as powerful as LISP,
> but I'm pretty sure you could turn interrupts into method invocations
> without having to extend the VM.

How so? An interrupt is a address the processor directly jumps to by
adjusting its PC. The JVM doesn't even have the idea of function pointers.
Invoking a (even static) method involves several lookups in dicts until the
actual code  pointer is known - and that's byte code then, not machine
code.

As your examples show, one can implement a VM ontop of a considederably thin
layer of low level code and expose hooks that allow for system
functionality to be developed in a high-level language running bytecode.
Fine. Never doubted that. I've written myself C-wrappings that allowed
python callables to be passed as callbacks to the C-lib - no black magic
there. But that took some dozen lines of C-code, and time-critical
interrupts won't work properly if you allow their code beeing implemented
in a notably slower language.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From timh at zute.net  Wed Nov 17 04:05:00 2004
From: timh at zute.net (Tim Hoffman)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:05:00 +0800
Subject: win32 extentions--  installer not compatible with python 2.3
In-Reply-To: <5a050156.0411162243.7e7441ea@posting.google.com>
References: <5a050156.0411162243.7e7441ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <419b143d@news.highway1.com.au>

SoftwareTester wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am using NT4 and  downloaded the following Windows installations:
> 
> 1. Python-2.3.4
> 2. pywin32-203.win32-py2.2 Url:
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/pywin32/
> 
> I installed Python 2.3.4 succesfully.
> But when I run the win32 extentions installer, it returns a failure
> message "Python 2.2 required".
> 
> So does this mean that I cannot use win 32 extentions Python2.3?
Hi

It does work, you have just downloaded the pywin32 for Python 2.2 not 2.3.x

You need pywin32-203.win32-py2.3.exe

See ya

T


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Nov  7 05:45:37 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 04:45:37 -0600
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <878y9eya0r.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<mailman.6008.1099761054.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<878y9eya0r.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <418DFCD1.6040709@colorstudy.com>

Israel Raj T wrote:
> Kendall Clark <kendall at monkeyfist.com> writes:
> 
> 
>> The main reason Java is "faster" is because
> 
> 
> I would reject the premise entirely.
> 
> When looking at desktop apps made with Python, they positively whiz
> when compared to Java swing apps.

Let's give a shout out to the GIL!  Woo GIL!  More seriously, I'd give
up Java's theoretical thread scalability any day in return for the ease
of Python's C API.  Not that I've tried to code a C extension for either
language; but I get the impression the GIL is an important part of
making Python easy to use, and I frequently take advantage of the
extensions other people have written, and I'm betting there'd be less of 
them without the GIL.  They seem uncommon in Javaland.

> As for non desktop apps, the entire portage system of Gentoo is
> written in Python. 'emerge sync' causes a python app to synchronise a
> local application database with database at a non-local mirror. It is
> i/o intensive and appears to work very well and very fast.

Here, I'm betting it's fast because of a good implementation; because 
emerge can avoid doing work, rather than obsessing about doing the work 
quickly.  For something like emerge, there's huge potential in caching, 
dependency checking, and generally being smart about the tradeoffs. 
This will apply to any program that uses the network, a database, large 
files, or any of those other time sinks that easily outweigh CPU 
performance.  If you can get the job done in Python in half the time (or 
better), that gives you more time to make the application faster.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  / http://blog.ianbicking.org


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Thu Nov 18 10:23:24 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:23:24 +0200
Subject: PIL for Python 2.4?
References: <6r6pp018glonqu2kqeau5ru9nhfj9fpchv@4ax.com>
	<mailman.6543.1100784027.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<b0cpp0tveaidq3lbnsvnji5apnloi4u2g8@4ax.com>
	<419CB9D2.2030504@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <g9fpp052jgameoq804mvl7evn4jtgjp0nl@4ax.com>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:03:46 +0000, rumours say that Robin Becker
<robin at reportlab.com> might have written:

>well I have old MS VC++ 6 and building with setup.py Python 2.4b2 gives an error 
>related to the compiler; :( I guess I need MSVC++ 7.

I didn't even *try* to build it on an installation of MS VS 6 we have in
the office because I remember the long discussion about the transition
to VS 7, and the need for the building of other libriaries with VS 7
too...  Of course, I could completely build Python 2.4 with VS 6 and
then build PIL, which is what I'll do next.  I just wanted to avoid
troubles with VS 6 project files being out of sync, so I asked if anyone
did the build.

Thanks for trying though.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
"Tssss!" --Brad Pitt as Achilles in unprecedented Ancient Greek


From theller at python.net  Wed Nov  3 15:02:09 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 21:02:09 +0100
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
References: <cthoeigtdun.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
	<slrncohmqk.n07.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<TfOdna4IePwZexXcRVn-pA@powergate.ca>
	<TbadndhdMqHzaRXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
	<TbadndtdMqGHaBXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
	<6_qdnQZOZ_YYZRXcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
	<slrncoi7qs.dnr.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<E_udnZeXtbXWuxTcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <vfcmya4e.fsf@python.net>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Nick Craig-Wood wrote:
>> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>
>>> >>> t = T()
>>> >>> t
>>><T(Thread-7, started)>
>>> >>> asyncexc = ctypes.pythonapi.PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc
>>> >>> exc = ctypes.py_object(ValueError)
>>> >>> asyncexc(t.id, exc)
>>> 1
>>> >>> thread terminated!
>>>
>>> >>> t
>>><T(Thread-7, stopped)>
>> On a related subject, I'm trying to forcibly terminate a thread thats
>> already running.  I don't see any means of doing this in the docs.
>> Sending it an exception would be ideal.  Is the above the only way of
>> doing this?
>
> This isn't just a related subject, this is exactly what
> I was trying to do above.
>
> I have a test case here which is failing, however, because
> the exception is *not* being delivered asynchronously for
> some reason, but appears in the thread only when the thread
> is already terminating itself.  I'm still experimenting, but
> I will probably post the failing test case shortly for
> others to play with.

Can it be that the exception is delivered asynchronously, but still has
to be checked by some code somewhere (my guess would be ceval.c)?
It seems sys.setcheckinterval() plays a role here.

I'l append my script at the end, I have the impression that the thread
has to execute quite some byte codes before it notices the pending
exception.  That's the reason for the 'for i in range(100):' loop in the
thread.

Thomas

<code>
import thread, time, sys
from ctypes import pythonapi, py_object

##sys.setcheckinterval(1)

def run():
    while 1:
        time.sleep(0.3)
        for i in range(100):
            pass
        sys.stdout.write(".")

exc = ValueError(42)

t = thread.start_new_thread(run, ())
# allow the thread to start
time.sleep(1)

# raise exception in thread
print pythonapi.PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc(t, id(exc))


##print pythonapi.PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc(t, py_object(exc))

# allow thread to print the exception
time.sleep(1)
print "done"

</code>



From deepak.sarda at gmail.com  Sat Nov  6 08:58:29 2004
From: deepak.sarda at gmail.com (Deepak Sarda)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 21:58:29 +0800
Subject: checking a thread has started
Message-ID: <eaac783a0411060558264beb07@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone.

I have run into something which I believe is a bug or a shortcoming of
the threading.Thread module.

My program spawns 15 threads. For this I've creating a new class with
threading.Thread as the base class. Then I create objects of this
class and call their start() methods in a loop.

The program works fine when run locally in a shell. The problem starts
when it is served through apache as a cgi program. I just can't get
all the threads running. The constructor is properly called for each
object but for some of them  - the run() method never gets called. I
can get around this by introducing a delay in between calls to the
start() methods of the fifteen objects (using time.sleep(2)).

I believe this bottleneck is due to Apache server - it just can't
spawn so many threads so quickly. It just spawns seven threads and
that's it.

My question is: how do I check whether a call to the start() method
was successful? If there is a mechanism by which I can get this
information - I can try restarting/recreating the thread.

I am running this on Python 2.2 and Apache 1.3.27

Regards,

Deepak


From mauriceling at acm.org  Fri Nov  5 02:11:33 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 07:11:33 GMT
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
Message-ID: <418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>


> at work, we use java and python.  we have projects using swing and 
> others using wxpython.  we have applications that do intensive io and 
> others that do intensive cpu. we have not found that python is slower 
> than java.   in fact, when it comes to gui's, our swing apps take 
> "forever" to startup and when when garbage collector starts, the whole 
> app just freezes for about 15 seconds.  our wxpython apps, start right 
> up and "feel" faster and snappier.  can you show an example of where 
> python's "slow" speed as compared to java's "fast" speed has negatively 
> impacted your application or has been noticable in any way?  i know this 
> is a trolling question you have posted, but i'm actually very interested 
> knowing why you have said this.
> 
> thanks,
> 
> bryan

Thanks, lets just say that I have no interest in trolling.

1st of all, I thought it is somehow common knowledge that python is 
slower than java in many cases. Though I may be wrong... When I do a 
Google search, this came up...

http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/python-vs-java.html

although http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/~prechelt/Biblio/jccpprtTR.pdf 
showsjust the opposite.

What I need to work on now is something that requires speed (and dealing 
with files), without user's intervention. So the part about users' delay 
time is not in the equation. My choices boils down to Python or Java.

Cheers
maurice


From just at xs4all.nl  Fri Nov 12 04:49:59 2004
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:49:59 +0100
Subject: this looks like a bug in generator comprehension
References: <4edc17eb.0411120144.444315c0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <just-C0F92E.10495912112004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <4edc17eb.0411120144.444315c0 at posting.google.com>,
 michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato) wrote:

> Consider this example:
> 
> def f(x,y):
>    yield str(x) + y
> 
> "".join([s for s in f(1,2)])
> 
> I get correctly 
> 
> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects
> 
> However if I use a generator comprehension (I am using Python 2.4b2)
> I get a misleading error message:
> 
> TypeError: sequence expected, generator found
> 
> Is this a known bug?

Yes:
  http://python.org/sf/905389

Just


From wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca  Fri Nov 26 12:53:12 2004
From: wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca (Weiguang Shi)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:53:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: dictionary initialization
References: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<lIydnVF-WvXK3TvcRVn-jA@rogers.com>
	<slrncqciv9.ip7.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<co5j9k$jgv$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<mailman.6817.1101490908.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncqerc9.sic.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>

Just received an email from Batista, Facundo. Below are some quote and
my reply. 

On Fri, Nov 26, 2004 at 09:09:46AM -0300, Batista, Facundo wrote:
> ... 
>   >>> a = {}
>   >>> a['1'] = 5
>   >>> a['1'] *= 2
>   >>> a['1']
>   10
>   
>   >>> a['1'] = "blah"
>   >>> a['1'] *= 2
>   >>> a['1']
>   'blahblah'
>   
>   >>> a['1'] = ['a', 8]
>   >>> a['1'] *= 2
>   >>> a['1']
>   ['a', 8, 'a', 8]
>   
> The type of the right hand operator does not have nothing to do with
> the
> type of the left operand!
> 

You mean in Python, of course. I can see this is going the religious
direction now.

All in all, I've realized when a language generalizes and abstracts, 
it loses convenience. Because of this, however powerful other
languages become, awk always has its place as long as the application
is there.

Weiguang


From abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Tue Nov  2 09:11:53 2004
From: abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Ajay)
Date: Wed,  3 Nov 2004 01:11:53 +1100
Subject: 2d arrays
Message-ID: <1099404713.418795a9cb733@www-mail.usyd.edu.au>

hi!

i am trying to do something as follows:
i have a set of id's. These are from 4-10.
I also have a set of users. Users have values for some of these id's
thus, userA could have userA(4)=7, userA(6)=4 and userB may only have
userB(7)=3

what i am trying to do is to make this into a 2d array

id's/users 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
userA      7   4
userB            3
userC                3  4

and so on. Has anyone done this before? if yes, do you mind sharing how.
the problem is user information is stored in a db and all id's are stored
in a table.
so first of all, i get the entire range of id's from a table.
i then need to go through all user tables and get their corresponding
values and do this in an efficient way.

btw, has anyone worked on a recommender system that uses collaborative
filtering with cosine similarity measure.

thanks

cheers





----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.


From peter at designtheory.org  Sun Nov 14 15:59:59 2004
From: peter at designtheory.org (Peter Dobcsanyi)
Date: 14 Nov 2004 20:59:59 GMT
Subject: numarray memory leak
References: <cn6fk4$akl$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk> <cn6hpm$m5b$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<cn780v$ho6$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk>
	<mailman.6350.1100446504.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cn8h0f$n9$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:
> 
>    Peter> I will try the CVS.
> 
> Yep, numarray 1.1 has a memory leak in dot, which Matrix multiply
> uses.  It also has a leak in cumulative boolean functions like
> sometrue.  Both are fixed in CVS.

Indeed, I tried the CVS version and that fixed the problem; for me, at
least. I am a bit worried about the users of my package depending on
numarray. Most of them would not be able (or willing to) pull down the
CVS tree.

    Peter


From cjw at sympatico.ca  Thu Nov 11 13:36:22 2004
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:36:22 -0500
Subject: distutils and Debian
In-Reply-To: <cn006r$1om$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
References: <4192AD69.5040707@sympatico.ca>
	<slrncp5cf6.v8.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<qeGdnUA1FNXrJw_cRVn-oA@giganews.com> <cmuf87$fm5$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<1UKkd.32427$km5.1574845@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<cn006r$1om$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <xiOkd.41802$km5.1658609@news20.bellglobal.com>

Robert Kern wrote:
> Colin J. Williams wrote:
> 
>> I have installed the Python*-dev packages, but my present problem 
>> centres on installing distutils.
> 
> 
> Why are you trying to install distutils over the one provided by 
> python-dev? It's probably not a good idea.
I am doing this because there is no distutils in the Debian packages for 
Python2.3.4 or Python 2.3.4-dev.

Colin W.
> 
>> With >python setup.py install, I get:
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "setup.py", line 30, in ?
>>     packages = ['distutils', 'distutils.command'],
>>   File "/root/downloads/python/Distutils-1.0.2/distutils/core.py", 
>> line 102, in setup
>>     _setup_distribution = dist = klass(attrs)
>>   File "/root/downloads/python/Distutils-1.0.2/distutils/dist.py", 
>> line 130, in __init__
>>     setattr(self, method_name, getattr(self.metadata, method_name))
>> AttributeError: DistributionMetadata instance has no attribute 
>> 'get___doc__'
>>
>> I would welcome any suggestion as to how I can work around this.
> 
> 
> I don't have a clue. It seems to be internal to the Distutils-1.0.2 
> source distribution and not using the distutils from python-dev. I 
> suggest asking on the distutils mailing list.
> 


From pbouige at electre.pasteur.fr  Mon Nov 22 09:20:41 2004
From: pbouige at electre.pasteur.fr (Philippe  Bouige)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:20:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Problem with registry under WIN XP ? :-((
Message-ID: <slrnfa00000cq3tdp.6b9b.pbouige@electre.pasteur.fr>

Hello,

     After install de Zope under WINXP, I have not problem
     with zope but it's not possible install module for
     my version python 2.3... The message is :
     "Python version 2.3 required, which was not found
     registry"... but I have python23 !!! How to modify
     registry ?

              Thank you very much for your help


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Nov  4 13:39:04 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 19:39:04 +0100
Subject: yet another recipe on string interpolation
References: <4edc17eb.0411032219.659c1824@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cmdpe5$uem$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Michele Simionato wrote:

> I was playing with string.Template in Python 2.4 and I came out with the
> following recipe:
> 
> import sys
> from string import Template
> 
> def merge(*dictionaries):
>     """Merge from right (i.e. the rightmost dictionary has the
>     precedence).""" merg = {}
>     for d in dictionaries:
>         merg.update(d)
>     return merg
> 
> def interp(s, dic = None):
>     if dic is None: dic = {}
>     caller = sys._getframe(1)
>     return Template(s) % merge(caller.f_globals, caller.f_locals, dic)
> 
> language="Python"
> print interp("My favorite language is $language.")
> 
> Do you have any comments? Suggestions for improvements?

Nice. recipe. I think the perlish format looks better than our current
"%(name)s" thingy. While interp() does some magic it should still be
acceptable for its similarity with eval(). Here are some ideas:
You could virtualize the merger of dictionaries:

class merge(object):
    def __init__(self, *dicts):
        self.dicts = dicts
    def __getitem__(self, key):
        for d in reversed(self.dicts):
            try:
                return d[key]
            except KeyError:
                pass
        raise KeyError(key)

I would use either implicitly or explicitly specified dictionaries, not
both:
        
def interp(s, *dicts, **kw):
    if not dicts:
        caller = sys._getframe(1)
        dicts = (caller.f_globals, caller.f_locals)
    return Template(s).substitute(merge(*dicts), **kw)

As of 2.4b2, the modulo operator is not (not yet, or no longer?) defined, so
I had to use substitute() instead.

I really like your option to provide multiple dictionaries - maybe you
should suggest changing the signature of the substitute() method to the
author of the Template class.

Peter





From exarkun at divmod.com  Mon Nov 29 17:02:00 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 22:02:00 GMT
Subject: asynchat and threading
In-Reply-To: <41AB8F0A.7050502@harvee.org>
Message-ID: <20041129220200.17481.475573126.divmod.quotient.11687@ohm>

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:05:14 -0500, "Eric S. Johansson" <esj at harvee.org> wrote:
> If I could simply do: py-get twisted
> and have all of the dependencies resolved, it would be wonderful.  as a 
> prototype, I would suggest wrapping apt-get with a python envelope which 
>   automatically invokes apt-get with a python specific configuration 
> file for .pydeb files as well as a private repository and database etc.. 
>   Since apt-get exists for almost every version of Linux and should be 
> portable to other platforms, this distribution method should be 
> relatively distribution portable.
> 
> One can also handle upgrades of the core image of Python and ancillary 
> packages as well by leaving a breadcrumb file indicating which packaging 
> system is native and the package currently installed. <<- idea needs work
> 
> yea? nay?
> 

  Why not use apt-get?

  Jp


From frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com  Wed Nov 17 08:28:10 2004
From: frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com (Frithiof Andreas Jensen)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:28:10 +0100
Subject: EVIL FBI SADISTS should be HUNTED,
	KIDNAPPED and TORTURED for 3 YRS
References: <8880818c.0411170340.726aeb0d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cnfjee$dn5$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>


"Keith" <victorn234 at 138mail.com> wrote in message
news:8880818c.0411170340.726aeb0d at posting.google.com...
> Someone emailed and requested me to post it on Usenet newsgroups.
>
"Someone" would be The Voices - otherwise it's too easy: I, being someone,
hereby request that you go for a jog on the motorway ...




From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 15 16:13:00 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:13:00 GMT
Subject: range and wx co - ords
References: <a86fb13f.0411081407.3a382a6b@posting.google.com>
	<a86fb13f.0411091707.11be7433@posting.google.com>
	<4191dc09.80425295@news.oz.net>
	<a86fb13f.0411100936.7ce01770@posting.google.com>
	<a86fb13f.0411140445.40b2d44c@posting.google.com>
	<41985e17.97850521@news.oz.net>
	<a86fb13f.0411150843.3cd42104@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4199157f.144802274@news.oz.net>

On 15 Nov 2004 08:43:01 -0800, mj.clift at virgin.net (Malcolm Clift) wrote:

>Hi Bengt,
>
>Sorry, I can see how vague my question is...
>
>I am showing multiple pages at once.I suppose that the simplist way to
>do it would be to have the position 'left' increase after so many
>lines or so many characters. The problem with that is that  although 
>I imagine  it  is very simple to do so I cannot work out how to say
>for every say something like for every 500 characters (or every 5 or
>so lines),  left = 100 +  say 1000.
>
This isn't homework, is it? ;-)

>As I said, at the moment I'm displaying multiple draggable pages (A4
>bmps) and I have just started to realise how slow that will be.
It is probable that you can improve the speed of dragging bitmaps if
you can do the relevant re-drawing a cached bitmap in a new position
instead of re-creating a bitmap in a new place -- if that's what's
slowing you down.

>Something akin to wading through mud :  ) So although it looks nice I
>think that I might have to go for a single page display. If that's the
>case could you give me some idea as to how I might define 'a new
>page', with the option of going forward and backward through the
>pages.You've done a lot for me already, so if that's more involved
>than I think I would be greatful if you told me where I might start
>looking for ways to do this.
>
I would suggest you take an OO aproach, and define a document class
that represents a sequence of pages, which in turn are defined by
a page class. Then you can flesh it out by defining methods for
setting dimensions and positions etc, and for initializing, updating,
and deleting display representations of the pages. Does your page text
come from files? Why don't you post what you have working so far?
I'm sure you will also get comments from people who are more familiar
with wx, which I haven't used. If you post something, I will learn something ;-)

If you don't know about classes and methods and objects and all that,
I suggest reading up on it and trying it out. It is a powerful way
of modeling your problem world, and decomposing it into chunks that
make sense.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Nov 16 23:55:24 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:55:24 -0800
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
	number of output arguments)
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E324521A@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Greg Ewing wrote:
> Jeremy Bowers wrote:
> > Generally, returning a tuple is either a sign that your return value
> > should be wrapped up in a class, or the function is doing too much.
> 
> While I suspect you may be largely right, I
> find myself wondering why this should be so. We
> don't seem to have any trouble with multiple inputs
> to a function, so why should multiple outputs be
> a bad thing? What is the reason for this asymmetry?
> 
> Perhaps it has something to do with positional vs.
> keyword arguments.

Hm. I'd guess it has more to do with arguments at all. That is, a
function has an input argument list which is metadata with respect to
the function body. There's no such "output argument list", at least not
specified in code. That's the fundamental asymmetry. Maybe we should
support:

def analysis(self, morf):
    filename, statements = self.analyze_morf(morf)
    missing = []
    for line in statements:
        if not self.cexecuted[filename].has_key(line):
            missing.append(line)
end analysis(filename, statements, missing,
             self.format_lines(statements, missing))


/ducking and running ;)


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From mauriceling at acm.org  Sat Nov  6 02:56:53 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 18:56:53 +1100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.05.09.23.39.248718@yahoo.com>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<pan.2004.11.05.09.23.39.248718@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <418C83C5.7070108@acm.org>


> In this way version 1.0 is all python. v1.1 has 20% C++; v1.2 is 34% C++
> ... until v2.0 is all C++. Each upgrades is faster, but does not introduce
> any new functionality and the risks that new functions imply.
> 
> If you were faithful to this concept, version 3 requires you to use the
> oldest python branch who's functions will not be modified, to start
> development. Could be v1.1 or 1.9. 
> 
I don't quite get the last part right, the version 3 part. I got lost in 
it....

thanks maurice


From bhoel at despammed.com  Thu Nov 25 16:51:13 2004
From: bhoel at despammed.com (=?iso-8859-15?q?Berthold_H=F6llmann?=)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 22:51:13 +0100
Subject: Replacing words from strings except 'and' / 'or' / 'and not'
References: <41A5EFA9.5030907@arcor.de>
	<mailman.6793.1101408768.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<opsh1v4mc61js0xs@news.telkomsa.net> <m2sm6xof2v.fsf@pchoel.psh>
	<opsh1zexmw1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
Message-ID: <m2zn15mwby.fsf@pchoel.psh>

"Caleb Hattingh" <caleb1 at telkomsa.net> writes:

> Wow, yeh, that's actually much better.
>
> I got into python back when map, filter & lambda were still

Me too, but I always try to use some of this newfangled stuff, and
sometimes it is helpful ;-)

> fashionable.   The list comprehension is sweeter than the map, that's
> for sure.

But a shorter solution was always(TM) avaliable

>>> ans = map(lambda w, k=keywords : myfunc(k, w), lsen)
>>> ans
['hi', 'there', '*my*', 'name', '*is*', 'caleb']

or

>>> map(lambda w: myfunc(keywords, w), lsen)
['hi', 'there', '*my*', 'name', '*is*', 'caleb']

But I think the last one only with the newer Pythons.

Kind Regards
Berthold
-- 
berthold at xn--hllmanns-n4a.de / <http://h?llmanns.de/>
bhoel at web.de                 / <http://starship.python.net/crew/bhoel/>


From dmerrillq at usaq.netq  Sun Nov 28 13:45:55 2004
From: dmerrillq at usaq.netq (Dave Merrill)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 13:45:55 -0500
Subject: Newbie MySQLdb / MySQL version problem, I think
Message-ID: <q5idnQ4l3bB-gTfcRVn-hQ@rcn.net>

Sorry for the newbness... Win2K, Python 2.3.3, MySQL 4.1.7. Downloaded and
extracted MySQL-python-1.0.0.win32-py2.3.zip. Put the whole extracted
directory into C:\Program Files\Python23\Lib\site-packages\ and renamed it
to "MySQLdb.

MySQLdb.__version__ returns '1.0.0', so I think it's installed ok.

However, I still can't connect, and I just want to confirm my guess on what
the problem is, which is that MySQLdb doesn't yet support MySQL 4.1. I'd
hoped that all that meant was that it wouldn't support any of 4.1's new
features, but it appears this combination may be completely non-functional.
Test and results below.

Has anyone else tried this?

Thanks,

Dave Merrill


TEST CODE (from http://www.kitebird.com/articles/pydbapi.html):
--------------
import MySQLdb
conn = MySQLdb.connect (host = "localhost",
                       user = "test_user",
                       passwd = "secret",
                       db = "test_db")
cursor = conn.cursor ()
cursor.execute ("SELECT VERSION()")
row = cursor.fetchone ()
print "server version:", row[0]
cursor.close ()
conn.close ()
--------------

RESULT:
--------------
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\sm\scriptutils.py", line 49,
in run
    exec codeObject in mainDict
  File "<source>", line 9, in ?
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\__init__.py", line
64, in Connect
    return apply(Connection, args, kwargs)
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\connections.py", line
116, in __init__
    self._make_connection(args, kwargs2)
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\connections.py", line
41, in _make_connection
    apply(super(ConnectionBase, self).__init__, args, kwargs)
OperationalError: (1251, 'Client does not support authentication protocol
requested by server; consider upgrading MySQL client')
--------------






From dave.benjamin at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 23:52:38 2004
From: dave.benjamin at gmail.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 21:52:38 -0700
Subject: yet another recipe on string interpolation
In-Reply-To: <4edc17eb.0411032219.659c1824@posting.google.com>
References: <4edc17eb.0411032219.659c1824@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <iBDid.79416$bk1.67256@fed1read05>

Michele Simionato wrote:
> language="Python"
> print interp("My favorite language is $language.")
> 
> Do you have any comments? Suggestions for improvements?

Well, for what it attempts to do, I'd say your solution is ideal. 
However, I think that Ka-Ping Yee's implementation was more full-featured:

http://lfw.org/python/Itpl20.py

Of course, this goes above and beyond the functionality of Template, so 
your code example is orthogonal to the reasons I'd prefer his solution.

He did the same sort of stack trick that you're doing, also. This code 
was the first that I'd ever seen do it, and this was before 
sys._getframe() was available.

Dave


From jmeile at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 12 16:11:59 2004
From: jmeile at hotmail.com (Josef Meile)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:11:59 +0100
Subject: Python 2.4: Why only assignments to None are forbiden?
Message-ID: <4195190f@pfaff2.ethz.ch>

Hi,

Textually from the highlights of python 2.4:

"Assigning to None - the compiler now treats assigning to None as a 
SyntaxError."

I think in general assignments to built-in types, functions, and 
variables should be also forbiden. It's a common mistake to do things 
like this:

 >>> def getFileName(file):
...   parts=file.split('/')
...   return parts('/')[-1]

Specially if you come from python 2.1.x where "file" didn't exist. 
Instead, there was "open"

On the example's context, file is a string and won't cause any damage 
because it is inside a function, so, the scope is local and it will be 
deleted after the function call. But think what would happen if somebody 
defines "file" as a global variable and other people use that code? For 
the author won't be any consequences at all, because if s/he does this, 
it means that probably s/he isn't working with files, but if somebody 
else takes that code and doesn't see this, then s/he will invest some 
time trying to find the bug.

Doing this validation for python 2.4.x will break some things, like the 
validation with "None" does. But I think it's better when you now that 
you are trying to use a "reserved word", you could as well use the "str" 
as an example, which I think is also common on newies.

Regards,
Josef


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov  8 18:53:53 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 00:53:53 +0100
Subject: Determining combination of bits
References: <x3Qjd.121786$hj.41260@fed1read07>
	<mailman.6124.1099945664.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8KQjd.121796$hj.4674@fed1read07> <418ff674$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<p7Sjd.5365$F6.1280593@news.siol.net>
	<cmoqvv$68r$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<PgTjd.5367$F6.1280575@news.siol.net>
Message-ID: <cmp0ua$e58$00$2@news.t-online.com>

> Wow. I always thought "least significant bit" meant, in the common
> big-endian bit notation, the last bit - with emphasis on the bit word,
> i.e. either 1 or 0. Have I got a real mess in my head (probably not, I
> just googled for definitions and the onse I checked are consistent with
> what I wrote,
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22least+significant+bit%22) or
> is the meaning of the phrase poorly defined?

No, seems to be well defined - I was the confused one. I have to admit that
I was somewhat impressed by that neat trick that I simply extended the
meaning of LSB in my faulty wet-ware.

I've done my share of assembler coding, but never happened to have used or
seen that one. 

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From dmerrillq at usaq.netq  Sun Nov 28 16:00:48 2004
From: dmerrillq at usaq.netq (Dave Merrill)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 16:00:48 -0500
Subject: Newbie MySQLdb / MySQL version problem, I think
References: <q5idnQ4l3bB-gTfcRVn-hQ@rcn.net>
	<06qqd.32905$6q2.16566@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <4tGdnTZcxb4coTfcRVn-2g@rcn.net>

Hmmm... I would try 1.1.7, except that there's no win32 compile for it, and
wimp that I am, I don't have a C compiler or know much about using one.

If anyone has compiled this release for win32, I'd appreciate it if they
could post it.

Dave Merrill

"John Fabiani" wrote:
> Dave Merrill wrote:
>
> > Sorry for the newbness... Win2K, Python 2.3.3, MySQL 4.1.7. Downloaded
and
> > extracted MySQL-python-1.0.0.win32-py2.3.zip. Put the whole extracted
> > directory into C:\Program Files\Python23\Lib\site-packages\ and renamed
it
> > to "MySQLdb.
> >
> Why not download the 1.1.5 if you have concerns
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/mysql-python
> John




From danu_milis at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  1 20:59:45 2004
From: danu_milis at yahoo.com (danu kusmana)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:59:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <20041101211449.14551.qmail@web25101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041102015945.36506.qmail@web60605.mail.yahoo.com>

I think the documentation on python official website
can help u learn lots of things and make sure you also
read lot in library section it worthed to read for.
There's also a cookbook in activestate.com website to
learn tips and tricks. hehehehe

I dont know is it appropriate or now but u can also
find few books u can download from eDonkey servers :P

Last thing is browse in your book shop u will find a
few books regarding Python.

danu

--- cuppojav <cuppojav at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi everyone!
>  
> I am new to Python; I've been learning the basics of
> the language from the online tutorial at python.org,
> plus looked at some of Richard Baldwin's online
> tutorials.
>  
> I must firstly say that I have fallen in love with
> Python. I come from a Java background (I've been
> programming seriously in Java since the beginning of
> the year), and the simplicity and ease of use of
> Python is really appealing.
>  
> Secondly, I am obviously familiar with the basics of
> programming, especially OO. I've only really
> programmed in Java, plus a bit in Python now.
>  
> My main point: I've been looking for a good place to
> learn (by detailed, explained example, preferably)
> how to write Python programs and scripts: How to
> structure a program, how variables and functions
> work together, and just a general exposure to the
> different aspects of the language...
> Something along the lines of Java's Java Tutorial
> (http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/) would be
> favourite... :) Has anyone got any suggestions?
> Ideas?
>  
> THe Python tutorial is pretty brief, and glosses
> over many important aspects, IMHO. Well, it *is* an
> introduction to Python.
>  
> Thanks
>  
> lutha
> 
> 		
> ---------------------------------
>  ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even
> more fun!  > -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. 
www.yahoo.com 
 



From jubafre at atlas.ucpel.tche.br  Sat Nov  6 13:17:38 2004
From: jubafre at atlas.ucpel.tche.br (Juliano Freitas)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 16:17:38 -0200
Subject: Sax Handler
Message-ID: <1099765058.18901.5.camel@swdb>

hello!!!

here is my pythn code that's handle a xml file:

=============================================================
from xml.sax import saxutils, saxlib, saxexts, parseString

class swdbHandler(saxlib.DocumentHandler):
        def __init__(self):
                self.flag = 0

        def startElement(self, name, atts):
                if name == "swml":
                        print "enter"

        def endElement(self, name):
                if name == "swml":
                        print "exit"

parser = saxexts.make_parser()
parser.setDocumentHandler(swdbHandler())

# here
parser.parseFile(open("exemplo.xml"))
=============================================================

i want to parse a "xml string" not a file how can i pass my swdbHandler
to this string?? with parseString? i try but doesnt work?
somebody can help me with this??

Juliano Freitas



From ncoghlan at email.com  Thu Nov 25 08:39:18 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 23:39:18 +1000
Subject: Operator Overloading
In-Reply-To: <co48s1$r1f$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <f6b69c93.0411250014.61315219@posting.google.com>
	<co48s1$r1f$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <41a5e084$0$25787$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Peter Maas wrote:
> What you are wondering about is the opposite direction
> 
> IF [] works THEN __getitem__ in dict.
> 
> but this is not what the Python Reference Manual says. Im not a
> Numeric expert but AFAIK Numeric arrays are basically C arrays
> having [] intrinsically so there's no need no deliver it via
> __getitem__.

This is correct, and true of any C extension - classes implemented in C only 
need to define the appropriate function pointers in their type structures in 
order for Python to find the relevant methods.

Classes that are being *nice* about it put in the actual magic method names as 
well (e.g. try "list.__getitem__"), but it is by no means required.

Cheers,
Nick.


From niels_bohr at uol.com.br  Sat Nov  6 16:36:00 2004
From: niels_bohr at uol.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio?= Mendes)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 19:36:00 -0200
Subject: PEP new assert idiom
Message-ID: <1099776960.32393.82.camel@localhost.localdomain>

I'm sorry if it's an replicate. Either my e-mail program is messing with
things or the python-list sent my msg to /dev/null. I couldn't find
anything related in previous PEP's, so here it goes a very early draft
for a new "assert" syntax:

This was inspired in Ruby's assert syntax. I'm not familiar with Ruby at
all, so the chances are that this piece of code is broken, but I think
the idea is very obvious. In Ruby, assert is simply a method which gets
a block argument:

>>> assert 'Errormsg' {
>>>     statement 1
>>>     statement 2
>>>     (...)
>>>     statement n
>>> }

This elegant syntax is NOT equivalent to python's not so ellegant:

>>> erromsg = 'Errormsg'
>>> assert statement 1, errormsg 
>>> assert statement 2, 'errormsg
>>> (...)
>>> assert statement n, errormsg

In Ruby, the Assertion error is raised if executing statement 1, then 2,
then 3... etc raises an error. This is a subtle thingm the error COULD
NOT be raised if each statement is executed alone, as each statement may
have side effects which make the order of execution relevant. To
suceccefully emulate this behaviour, the python programmer have to
resort to a even more cumbersome solution:

>>> foo = lambda : (statement 1) and (statement 2) ... (statement n)
>>> assert foo, 'Errormsg'

My proposal is to add the following syntax to the language:

>>> assert (statement 1), (statement 2), ... (statement n), 'Errormsg'

Or, if the user prefers, the traditional comma rules also applies:

>>> assert \
>>>     statement1,
>>>     statement2,
>>>     (...) 
>>>     statement n,
>>>     'Errormsg'

This simple syntax change introduces a very useful idiom for unittesting
and may equally be useful in other kinds of code. The most problematic
issue, I see, is the potential ambiguity a assert usage:

>>> assert statement 1, ..., statement n, string

As the 'Errormsg' argument is optional, it could be interpreted either
as being the statement (n + 1) or as the errormsg. This is not a
non-issue as the following syntax is valid in the current implementation
and is very useful:

>>> st = ''
>>> assert st
Traceback 
   ....
AssertionError

This is useful to assert that a string is not empty. My proposal is that
assert will always check all statements, (including the eventual error
message) and issue AssertError exceptions if find any problem. This will
catch only empty strings. If the last argument is a string, and an a
False statement was found, it will print the last argument in the shell.

The only piece of code I see would be broken in the new implementation
is:

>>> assert statement, ''

This will always raise an exception in the new implementation on the
opposition to the current behaviour in which the exception is raised
only if 'statement' is false, returning an empty error message. I don't
see any use for this pattern of code and is very unlikelly anyone has
ever implemented it, so I guess nobody would mind breaking this.

I'm interested to write a formal PEP if I receive good feedback from the
community, but I never wrote a PEP before, and (the worst problem) my
english is not so good. Anyone helps?

Thanks,
Fabio


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Nov  2 12:08:22 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 18:08:22 +0100
Subject: fastest way for humongous regexp search?
References: <cm5lv3$7p4$1@license1.unx.sas.com>
	<sZqdnc_PlckB8BvcRVn-pw@giganews.com>
	<cm8993$gp8$1@license1.unx.sas.com>
Message-ID: <cm8eu3$7e1$03$2@news.t-online.com>

> Thanks, I didn't know that would be faster.
> But I need to match against the misspellings in a case-insensitive
> way--that's the reason I'm using the regular expressions.

normalize them all to lowercase. Still way faster.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From arkham at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 13:07:36 2004
From: arkham at gmail.com (Rob Snyder)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:07:36 GMT
Subject: asynchat and threading
References: <Ij1pd.19554$ld2.4796764@twister.nyc.rr.com>
	<mailman.6755.1101310280.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.24.15.57.02.129894@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <I54pd.25584$Vk6.5984@twister.nyc.rr.com>

Thomas Guettler wrote:

> Am Thu, 25 Nov 2004 02:31:17 +1100 schrieb Anthony Baxter:
> 
>> On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:57:44 GMT, Rob Snyder <arkham at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I can only paraphrase what I said in a recent python-dev thread -
>> absolutely *no-one* should be starting new projects using asyncore and
>> asynchat. Use twisted, instead - it's cleaner, saner, has an active
>> development community, and is in all ways a better solution than the
>> asyncore approach.
>> 
>> asyncore based code causes bleeding from the eyes and brain leakage
>> through the ears.
> 
> Hi,
> 
> then the core of twisted should be in the standard library of python,
> and asyncore should become deprecated.
> 
> This could save a lot of people a lot of time.
> 
>  Thomas

Well, Anthony, that explains the blood on my keyboard, then. I am
downloading Twisted now, and will work through the tutorial this afternoon.
At least I feel like my pain was not entirely of my own creation!

As for making it into the standard library - I'm not a fan of putting larger
frameworks, which twisted seems to be - into a standard library. But I
agree with the spirit of your post, Thomas - is there some (reasonably)
comprehensive list of Python development frameworks and non-integrated
libraries? I'm did a lot of google'ing for stuff related to this any never
came across the Twisted Matrix site...

Rob


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Nov  5 12:20:36 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 18:20:36 +0100
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <cmgcp1$hpk$02$1@news.t-online.com>

> What I would like to have is some module (or whatever), with which I can
> say "load this C++ library", and then, "create that C++ object" or "call
> method x of C++ object y".

C++ has no concept of runtime type information (except from saying "this is
of class X). This sort of information is known as "reflection" in java or
python, and that allows for late time bindings to those languages. In other
words: you can create on the fly wrappers for them. 

But  c++ lacking this means that you need to feed the specification of
objecst - the header files - to some generator. WHich is exactly what
happens in the wrapper generators like swig and sip. I never toyed around
with boost, but I don't believe they made the impossible possible.

So to answer your question: Its not possible. There are other reasons as
well: C++ defines no binary layout of objects, the result is that a lib
complied  with different compilers (gcc, intel, msvc) results in
incompatible binaries. So even if one would ship the lib with the header
files: to actually generate the wrappers, the appropriate compliler has to
be used. And as you rarely find compilers of different kinds on end user
machines, you'll have to do it on the developers machine.

> Without doing anything else (such as recompiling the library or generating
> wrappers).

As I just said: not doable.

Third thing is that differences in language design make it necessary to
invest developer time in creating wrappings: In c++ you can pass arguments
by a pointer to them, allowing to modify them in the callers stackframe (or
whereever they live). As this is not possible in python, you need to work
around this, usually by returning a tuple of modified values in addition to
the result of the method/function itself.

So there are strong limits on automatically generationg wrappers - a
minmimum of work has to be done.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Sun Nov  7 16:09:55 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 22:09:55 +0100
Subject: Python OS
References: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmin1n$500$02$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6003.1099752590.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmiorc$j4b$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6021.1099783808.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmk7r1$4d0$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>	<mailman.6059.1099837930.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmldu9$a72$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6080.1099848517.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmlr0j$m3p$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.6086.1099854788.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmm2v1$cgc$03$1@news.t-online.com>

> Looks like a Hybrid.

Nicely observed. Now you asked for pure C. Do you call pure C beeing hybrid?

> All of that can be virtually emulated (virtual memory and so forth).

Yeah. So you got your virtual memory - and how do you plan to bring it to
use? The CPython implementation conveniently uses malloc, that fetches its
memory from the "real" memory. And allocating python objects will use that.
So how exactly do you plan to put your nice new simulated memory to use, in
python, the language you want to create an OS in? 

> This has been done as well, there are Java operating systems were IO is
> handled by Java and not magic, or so I understand.

I found this one:

http://www.savaje.com/faqs1.html#item1

Somehow these guys made the design decision to use C/C++ for low-level
stuff. So they seem to share my hilarious viewpoints to a certain degree.

But I'm sure you can show me a JAVA OS thats purely written in java. I'm
looking forward to it. I'm especially interested in their core IO driver
code beeing written in JAVA.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From vincent_delft at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 12 05:40:13 2004
From: vincent_delft at yahoo.com (vincent delft)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 02:40:13 -0800
Subject: Python to measure HTTP and HTTPS performances: best way ???
Message-ID: <5c184570.0411120240.6ef29928@posting.google.com>

I want to write a script that will monitore the performance of a web
application delivering HTTP and HTTPS pages.

I would like to know the best way to do it...

By reading Python Doc. I've found the following:
For HTTP:
def http_monitor(host,url):
	starttts=time.time()
	conn=httplib.HTTPConnection(host)
	conn.request("get","/%s" % url)
	res=conn.getresponse()
	data=res.read()
        return time.time()-starttts  
Where Host and URL concerns an HTTP web page.

For HTTPS:
def https_monitor(host,url):
	starttts=time.time()
	conn=httplib.HTTPSConnection(host)
	conn.request("get","/%s" % url)
	res=conn.getresponse()
	data=res.read()
        return time.time()-starttts  
Where Host and URL concerns an HTTPS web page.

Does this is valid ?
For HTTPS, I'm not dealing with encryption Key ... is it normal ?

Thanks.


From lbates at syscononline.com  Wed Nov 10 16:35:54 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:35:54 -0600
Subject: How to communicate to device
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6217.1100102684.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6217.1100102684.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <TumdndFjcOgrFA_cRVn-vg@comcast.com>

kamarudin samsudin wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Im new to linux and very very new to python. But i have to write a
> program to communicate with a devide. The device will send a data
> after i send something to it.
> 
> Any suggestion and help. Maybe something where i can start it.
> 
> many thanx.
> 
You need to supply us with more information to be able to assist
you.  What type of communication path do you have to the device
(e.g. serial, parallel, scsi, ethernet, ...).  What does the
"device" understand in terms of commands?  Without more info
we are just guessing out here.

Larry Bates


From PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com  Tue Nov 30 03:47:10 2004
From: PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com (Marco Aschwanden)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:47:10 +0100
Subject: Protecting Python source
References: <f4a45085.0411260701.5859bf43@posting.google.com>
	<cofrqd$1d5$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<41ab74f4$0$85031$a1866201@visi.com>
	<200411291515.29610.drlinux@columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <opsh9r0wwuc87q46@famasm>

+1 QOTW



From hills838 at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 25 06:34:42 2004
From: hills838 at hotmail.com (hills)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 19:34:42 +0800
Subject: The limitation of the Photon Hypothesis
Message-ID: <20041125113547.2F1E11E4002@bag.python.org>

Please reply to hdgbyi at public.guangzhou.gd.cn.
Thank you! 
 

The limitation of the Photon Hypothesis

 

According to the electromagnetic theory of light, its energy is related to the amplitude of the electric field of the electromagnetic wave, W=eE^2(where E is the amplitude). It apparently has nothing to do with the light's circular frequency v. 

To explain the photoelectric effect, Einstein put forward the photon hypothesis. His paper hypothesized light was made of quantum packets of energy called photons. Each photon carried a specific energy related to its circular frequency v, E=hv. This has nothing to do with the amplitude of the electromagnetic wave. 

 

For the electromagnetic wave that the amplitude E has nothing to do with the light's frequency v, if the light's frequency v is high enough, the energy of the photon in light is greater than the light's energy, hv>eE^2. Apparently, this is incompatible with the electromagnetic theory of light.

THE UNCERTAINTY PRINCIPLE IS UNTENABLE

 

By re-analysing Heisenberg's Gamma-Ray Microscope experiment and one of the thought experiment from which the uncertainty principle is demonstrated, it is actually found that the uncertainty principle cannot be demonstrated by them. It is therefore found to be untenable.

Key words: 
uncertainty principle; Heisenberg's Gamma-Ray Microscope Experiment; thought experiment 

 

The History Of The Uncertainty Principle

If one wants to be clear about what is meant by "position of an object," for example of an electron., then one has to specify definite experiments by which the "position of an electron" can be measured; otherwise this term has no meaning at all. --Heisenberg, in uncertainty paper, 1927

Are the uncertainty relations that Heisenberg discovered in 1927 just the result of the equations used, or are they really built into every measurement? Heisenberg turned to a thought experiment, since he believed that all concepts in science require a definition based on actual, or possible, experimental observations.

Heisenberg pictured a microscope that obtains very high resolution by using high-energy gamma rays for illumination. No such microscope exists at present, but it could be constructed in principle. Heisenberg imagined using this microscope to see an electron and to measure its position. He found that the electron's position and momentum did indeed obey the uncertainty relation he had derived mathematically. Bohr pointed out some flaws in the experiment, but once these were corrected the demonstration was fully convincing. 

 

Thought Experiment 1

The corrected version of the thought experiment

Heisenberg's Gamma-Ray Microscope Experiment


A free electron sits directly beneath the center of the microscope's lens (please see AIP page http://www.aip.org/history/heisenberg/p08b.htm or diagram below) . The circular lens forms a cone of angle 2A from the electron. The electron is then illuminated from the left by gamma rays--high-energy light which has the shortest wavelength. These yield the highest resolution, for according to a principle of wave optics, the microscope can resolve (that is, "see" or distinguish) objects to a size of dx, which is related to and to the wavelength L of the gamma ray, by the expression: 

dx = L/(2sinA) (1) 

However, in quantum mechanics, where a light wave can act like a particle, a gamma ray striking an electron gives it a kick. At the moment the light is diffracted by the electron into the microscope lens, the electron is thrust to the right. To be observed by the microscope, the gamma ray must be scattered into any angle within the cone of angle 2A. In quantum mechanics, the gamma ray carries momentum as if it were a particle. The total momentum p is related to the wavelength by the formula, 

p = h / L, where h is Planck's constant. (2) 

In the extreme case of diffraction of the gamma ray to the right edge of the lens, the total momentum would be the sum of the electron's momentum P'x in the x direction and the gamma ray's momentum in the x direction: 

P' x + (h sinA) / L', where L' is the wavelength of the deflected gamma ray. 

In the other extreme, the observed gamma ray recoils backward, just hitting the left edge of the lens. In this case, the total momentum in the X direction is: 

P''x - (h sinA) / L''. 

The final x momentum in each case must equal the initial X momentum, since momentum is conserved. Therefore, the final X moment are equal to each other: 

P'x + (h sinA) / L' = P''x - (h sinA) / L'' (3) 

If A is small, then the wavelengths are approximately the same, 

L' ~ L" ~ L. So we have 

P''x - P'x = dPx ~ 2h sinA / L (4) 

Since dx = L/(2 sinA), we obtain a reciprocal relationship between the minimum uncertainty in the measured position, dx, of the electron along the X axis and the uncertainty in its momentum, dPx, in the x direction: 

dPx ~ h / dx or dPx dx ~ h. (5) 

For more than minimum uncertainty, the "greater than" sign may added. 

Except for the factor of 4pi and an equal sign, this is Heisenberg's uncertainty relation for the simultaneous measurement of the position and momentum of an object. 

Re-analysis

The original analysis of Heisenberg's Gamma-Ray Microscope Experiment overlooked that the microscope cannot see the object whose size is smaller than its resolving limit, dx, thereby overlooking that the electron which relates to dx and dPx respectively is not the same.

According to the truth that the microscope can not see the object whose size is smaller than its resolving limit, dx, we can obtain that what we can see is the electron where the size is larger than or equal to the resolving limit dx and has a certain position, dx = 0.

The microscope can resolve (that is, "see" or distinguish) objects to a size of dx, which is related to and to the wavelength L of the gamma ray, by the expression: 

dx = L/(2sinA) (1) 

This is the resolving limit of the microscope and it is the uncertain quantity of the object's position. 

The microscope cannot see the object whose size is smaller than its resolving limit, dx. Therefore, to be seen by the microscope, the size of the electron must be larger than or equal to the resolving limit. 

But if the size of the electron is larger than or equal to the resolving limit dx, the electron will not be in the range dx. Therefore, dx cannot be deemed to be the uncertain quantity of the electron's position which can be seen by the microscope, but deemed to be the uncertain quantity of the electron's position which can not be seen by the microscope. To repeat, dx is uncertainty in the electron's position which cannot be seen by the microscope. 

To be seen by the microscope, the gamma ray must be scattered into any angle within the cone of angle 2A, so we can measure the momentum of the electron. But if the size of the electron is smaller than the resolving limit dx, the electron cannot be seen by the microscope, we cannot measure the momentum of the electron.  Only the size of the electron is larger than or equal to the resolving limit dx,  the electron can be seen by the microscope, we can measure the momentum of the electron. According to Heisenberg's Gamma-Ray Microscope Experiment,  the electron??s momentum is uncertain,  the uncertainty in its momentum is dPx.

dPx is the uncertainty in the electron's momentum which can be seen by microscope. 

What relates to dx is the electron where the size is smaller than the resolving limit.  When the electron is in the range dx, it cannot be seen by the microscope, so its position is uncertain, and its momentum is not measurable, because to be seen by the microscope, the gamma ray must be scattered into any angle within the cone of angle 2A, so we can measure the momentum of the electron. If the electron cannot be seen by the microscope, we cannot measure the momentum of the electron.

What relates to dPx is the electron where the size is larger than or equal to the resolving limit dx .The electron is not in the range dx, so it can be seen by the microscope and its position is certain, its momentum is measurable.

Apparently, the electron which relates to dx and dPx respectively is not the same. What we can see is the electron where the size is larger than or equal to the resolving limit dx and has a certain position, dx = 0. 

Quantum mechanics does not rely on the size of the object, but on Heisenberg's Gamma-Ray Microscope experiment. The use of the microscope must relate to the size of the object. The size of the object which can be seen by the microscope must be larger than or equal to the resolving limit dx of the microscope, thus the uncertain quantity of the electron's position does not exist. The gamma ray which is diffracted by the electron can be scattered into any angle within the cone of angle 2A, where we can measure the momentum of the electron. 

What we can see is the electron which has a certain position, dx = 0, so that in no other position can we measure the momentum of the electron. In Quantum mechanics, the momentum of the electron can be measured accurately when we measure the momentum of the electron only, therefore, we have gained dPx = 0. 

And, 

dPx dx =0. (6) 

 

Thought Experiment 2

Single Slit Diffraction Experiment


Suppose a particle moves in the Y direction originally and then passes a slit with width dx(Please see diagram below) . The uncertain quantity of the particle's position in the X direction is dx, and interference occurs at the back slit . According to Wave Optics , the angle where No.1 min of interference pattern can be calculated by following formula: 

sinA=L/2dx (1) 

and L=h/p where h is Planck's constant. (2) 

So the uncertainty principle can be obtained 

dPx dx ~ h (5) 

Re-analysis

The original analysis of Single Slit Diffraction Experiment overlooked the corpuscular property of the particle and the Energy-Momentum conservation laws and mistook the uncertain quantity of the particle's position in the X direction is the slit's width dx.

According to Newton first law , if an external force in the X direction does not affect the particle, it will move in a uniform straight line, ( Motion State or Static State) , and the motion in the Y direction is unchanged .Therefore , we can learn its position in the slit from its starting point. 

The particle can have a certain position in the slit and the uncertain quantity of the position is dx =0. According to Newton first law , if the external force at the X direction does not affect particle, and the original motion in the Y direction is not changed , the momentum of the particle in the X direction will be Px=0 and the uncertain quantity of the momentum will be dPx =0. 

This gives: 

dPx dx =0. (6) 

No experiment negates NEWTON FIRST LAW. Whether in quantum mechanics or classical mechanics, it applies to the microcosmic world and is of the form of the Energy-Momentum conservation laws. If an external force does not affect the particle and it does not remain static or in uniform motion, it has disobeyed the Energy-Momentum conservation laws. Under the above thought experiment , it is considered that the width of the slit is the uncertain quantity of the particle's position. But there is certainly no reason for us to consider that the particle in the above experiment has an uncertain position, and no reason for us to consider that the slit's width is the uncertain quantity of the particle. Therefore, the uncertainty principle, 

dPx dx ~ h (5) 

which is demonstrated by the above experiment is unreasonable. 

 

Conclusion

Every physical principle is based on the Experiments, not based on MATHEMATICS, including heisenberg uncertainty principle. Einstein said, One Experiment is enough to negate a physical principle.

>From the above re-analysis , it is realized that the thought experiment demonstration for the uncertainty principle is untenable. Therefore, the uncertainty principle is untenable. 

 

Reference:
1. Max Jammer. (1974) The philosophy of quantum mechanics (John wiley & sons , Inc New York ) Page 65
2. Ibid, Page 67
3. http://www.aip.org/history/heisenberg/p08b.htm 

 

Single Particles Do Not Exhibit Wave-Like Behavior

 

Through a qualitative analysis of the experiment, it is shown that the presumed wave-like behavior of a single particle contradicts the energy-momentum conservation laws and may be expained solely through particle interactions.

 

 

DUAL SLIT INTERFERENCE EXPERIMENT

PART I

 

If a single particle has wave-like behavior, it will create an interference image when it has passed through a single slit. But the experimental result shows that this is not the case Only a large number of particles can create an interference image when they pass through the two slits.

 

 

PART II

 

In the dual slit interference experiment, the single particle is thought to pass through both slits and interfere with itself at the same time due to its wave-like behavior. The motion of the wave is the same direction as the particle. If the particle passes through a single slit only, it can not be assumed that it has wave-like behavior. If it passes through two slits, it, and also the acompanying wave must be assumed to have motion in two directions. But a wave only has one direction of motion.

 

PART III

 

If one slit is obstructed in the dual slit interference experiment and a particle is launched in this direction, then according to Newton??s first law, (assuming no external forces,) it will travel in a uniform straight line. It will not pass through the closed slit and will not make contact with the screen. If it has wavelike behavior, there is a probability that it will make contact. But this will negate Newton??s first law and the law of conservation of energy and momentum. Both quantum mechanics and classical mechanics are dependent on this law.

 

THE EXPLANATION FOR

THE WAVE-LIKE BEHAVIOR

OF THE PARTICLE

 

In the dual slit interference experiment, if one slit is unobstructed, particles will impact at certain positions on the screen. But when two slit are open, the particles can not reach these positions. This phenomenon brings us to the greatest puzzle regarding the image of the particle. But when we consider that the particle may experience two or more reflections, the puzzle may be resolved.

 

As indicated, when one of the slits is obstructed, the particles that move towards this slit can not get to the screen. However, they can return to the particle source by reflection and then pass through the open slit and reach the above positions since they have different paths when one or two slits are open. This indicates that wave-like behavior may be explained solely on the basis of particle interactions.

 

 

EXPERIMENTAL TEST

 

The above may be tested by an experiment which can absorb all the particles that move towards the closed slit. If one slit  is obstructed by the stuff which can absorb all the particles that move towards it,  the intensity of some positions on the screen should decrease.


 

 

THE CONCLUSION

 

Single particles do not exhibit wave-like behavior.

The similarity of wave and particle behavior may be attributed to initial impulse and path.

The quantum mechanical explanation is suspect, since the probability of one particle and one particle among a large quantity reaching the screen is equal in mathematics and physics.

 

Author : BingXin Gong
Postal address : P.O.Box A111 YongFa XiaoQu XinHua HuaDu
               GuangZhou 510800 P.R.China

E-mail: hdgbyi at public.guangzhou.gd.cn
Tel: 86---20---86856616 

 

 

 


From rlbuvel at gmail.com  Sat Nov 27 07:15:52 2004
From: rlbuvel at gmail.com (Ray Buvel)
Date: 27 Nov 2004 04:15:52 -0800
Subject: [ANN] rpncalc-1.0 RPN Calculator For Python
Message-ID: <mailman.6851.1101655836.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>

Module that adds an interactive Reverse Polish Notation (RPN)
interpreter to Python.  This interpreter allows the use of Python as
an RPN calculator.  You can easily switch between the RPN interpreter
and the standard Python interpreter.

Home page:  http://calcrpnpy.sourceforge.net/


From see at sig.for.address.edu  Fri Nov  5 10:45:38 2004
From: see at sig.for.address.edu (Doug Schwarz)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 15:45:38 GMT
Subject: How do you execute an OS X application (bundle) from Python?
References: <70bb9f8d.0411040250.1f4ac1a@posting.google.com>
	<69cbbef2.0411041513.120fc039@posting.google.com>
	<1gmrrsj.7ljqd6f3sgkfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<m24qk4ttl2.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>
	<1gms4py.c7p5cjeee3clN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <see-14D3E2.10453605112004@news.frontiernet.net>

In article <1gms4py.c7p5cjeee3clN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>,
 aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

[snip]
> easily shell out), then that's going to be what we do -- until and
> unless shelling out to TextEdit or BBEdit or whatever is just as easy.


You can start-up TextEdit, edit myfile.txt and wait until TextEdit quits 
with

  import subprocess
  app = "/Applications/TextEdit.app/Contents/MacOS/TextEdit"
  file = "myfile.txt"
  return_code = subprocess.call( [app, file] )

I don't know if there's a way to detect when the file is simply closed.

The subprocess module is available from

  http://www.lysator.liu.se/~astrand/popen5/


I also tried

  import os
  app = "/Applications/TextEdit.app/Contents/MacOS/TextEdit"
  file = "myfile.txt"
  return_code = os.spawnlp(os.P_WAIT, app, "TextEdit", file)

but TextEdit never started up.  Instead I got this error message:

2004-11-05 10:32:34.586 TextEdit[9789] No Info.plist file in application 
bundle or no NSPrincipalClass in the Info.plist file, exiting


Doug

-- 
Doug Schwarz
dmschwarz&urgrad,rochester,edu
Make obvious changes to get real email address.


From python-url at phaseit.net  Wed Nov 10 12:23:51 2004
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:23:51 +0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Nov 10)
Message-ID: <mailman.6233.1100114629.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>

QOTW: "I find it hard to believe nobody has tried this yet, unless it's
the case that those who know how to do it also know that it's actually
not possible for some reason..." -- Peter Hansen
    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/249134.html

"Some people may actually want to drink poisoned kool-aid and join the
great wise extraterrestrials on their comet in the skies."  -- Alex Martelli
responding to the idea that some programmers may actually want "a" + 10 == 10.
    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/249191.html


    Zunbeltz Izaola has a problem passing an exception between threads in a
    wxPython application.  A couple different approaches are offered: custom
    events and using a queue to store the traceback. Peter Hansen suggests a
    possible avenue using ctypes, but quickly becomes mired in an argument
    with himself before Thomas Heller finally rescues him:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/248979.html
    
    BJ?rn Lindqvist wonders why wxPython isn't in the standard library.
    Roger Binns and others offer their insight. Amazingly not one person is
    flamed during the exchange and a potentially endless thread ends as
    suddenly as it began:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/249562.html
    
    Wolfgang Keller wonders about using JMS from CPython via JPype.  David
    Morgenthaler offers a solution which appears to impress Wolfgang. I
    don't know anything about this, so draw your own conclusions here about
    whether David's example is truly amazing or Wolfgang is simply easily
    impressed:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/248987.html
    
    Vinay Sajip announces a new configuration module which prompts some
    discussion over file formats are best expressed in Python itself or a
    specialized language:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/249133.html
    
    The Eternal Squire tables PEP 336 which suggests making None callable.
    Yes, that's his name:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/249224.html
    
    Michele Simionato offers a string-interpolation recipe using
    string.Template from Python 2.4:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/249237.html
    More about string.Template: 
        http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/whatsnew/node5.html
        http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/304004
    
    Maurice LING wonders why Python is slower than Java. This turns into a
    discussion on netiquette, smart questions and the general atmosphere of
    [in]tolerance on c.l.py:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/249413.html
    
    Gabriel Zachmann asks about a generic way to access C++ libraries from
    Python. The consensus doesn't sound promising:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/249513.html
    
    Alan Gauld announces a new "web-tutor for beginners".  No announcement
    has yet been made regarding a web-tutor for experts:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/249730.html
        http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/
    
    Mike Thompson is puzzled by interning strings which leads to some
    enlightening exposition by Peter Otten, et al, on how Python chooses to
    intern strings and how users can utilize this functionality in their own
    code:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/249734.html
    
    syd wonders about a way to return a subset from a large list of
    instances of similar classes.  A couple different solutions are offered
    and the discussion turns to new- versus old-style classes:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/248886.html
    
    Stephen Ferg takes on the twice-yearly task of reminding everyone that
    Python is doomed without a CPAN equivalent, meets with the ritual
    retorts and everyone eventually moves on, satisfied that we need not
    discuss this again until next April:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/248934.html
    
    Gabriel Zachmann starts what appears to be the longest thread of the
    week with a discussion on the definition of strong/weak typing.  In
    typical c.l.py fashion, supercooled fluids are offered as a possible
    explanation:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-November/248915.html
    

========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
    action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

    Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
        http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
       
    Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
	http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
	http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
	http://python.de/backend.php
    For more, see
	http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.




From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Nov 22 16:33:23 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:33:23 GMT
Subject: is int(round(val)) safe?
In-Reply-To: <cntjpk$qc2$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
References: <rowen-8AF206.11131622112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<cntjpk$qc2$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <DWsod.378073$wV.108786@attbi_s54>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Since round() returns an integer

Just to clarify in case anyone else misreads this, I belive the intent 
here was to say that round(f) -- that is, round with only a single 
argument -- returns a floating point number with no fractional component 
after the decimal point.  The result is still a float, not an int though:

 >>> round(3.14159265359)
3.0
 >>> round(3.14159265359, 2)
3.1400000000000001

I think the intent was clear from the rest of the post, but I figured it 
wouldn't hurt to clarify this for any newbies who misread it like I did.

Steve


From cajzell at hotmail.com  Sun Nov 21 05:58:07 2004
From: cajzell at hotmail.com (Caj Zell)
Date: 21 Nov 2004 02:58:07 -0800
Subject: perl -pi.bak  -e equivalent
References: <c9eae90e.0411200507.3b3e90e3@posting.google.com>
	<cnngpb$qtm$05$3@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c9eae90e.0411210258.3303cb1d@posting.google.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote in message news:<cnngpb$qtm$05$3 at news.t-online.com>...
> Caj Zell wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I am looking a little bit at python and am curious of one thing I
> > often use in perl. Suppose, I want to change the string
> > "best_composer" to "Zappa" in a document called facts.txt, then in
> > perl I would do
> > 
> > perl -pi.bak  -e "s/best_composer/Zappa/;" facts.txt
> > 
> > Can I do that with python from the command line so easily?
> 
> Short answer: No. Perl is designed for this kind of stuff. Python won't
> catch up in that field, for various reasons. There have been plenty of
> discussions on the subject of one-liners in python - googl.groups will show
> you to them. 


OK, I did some googling on "perl command line -e python equivalent"
and various combinations, but didn't think of the obvious "perl
one-liner python equivalent" your answer implies. With that I want to
say that I did try before posting here.

Nice to see noone challenges the musical meaning of my search and
replace example, seems like you pythoners have pretty good taste.

Caj Zell


From spammers-go-here at spam.invalid  Tue Nov 23 22:21:34 2004
From: spammers-go-here at spam.invalid (Madhusudan Singh)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 22:21:34 -0500
Subject: Book recommendation
Message-ID: <30ictaF2vhlgoU1@uni-berlin.de>

Hi

I am trying to teach myself Python. I have extensive prior programming
experience in Fortran, a little in C/C++,  Pascal, etc.

So far, I have been reading online tutorials at www.python.org and a book I
found at the library - Martin Brown's The Complete Reference Python. Is
there a standard classic book to learn from that I could buy ?

Say something like Metcalf and Reid's Fortran 90/95 Explained or Kernighan
and Ritchie's The C Programming Language.




From ncoghlan at email.com  Sat Nov 20 12:51:33 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 03:51:33 +1000
Subject: Enumerating Classes in Modules
In-Reply-To: <BNcnd.18042$Vk6.6901@twister.nyc.rr.com>
References: <jKQmd.16312$Vk6.11976@twister.nyc.rr.com>
	<10pnu0hrq7r9tf9@corp.supernews.com>
	<j4Tmd.17277$Vk6.1450@twister.nyc.rr.com>
	<BNcnd.18042$Vk6.6901@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <419f8425$0$25778$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Rob Snyder wrote:
> Just in case anyone "follows in my footsteps" and has the same problem I did
> - Jeff's answer is pretty much dead on. The only stumbling block I had was
> that the dir() returns a list of strings representating the name of the
> attributes, and includes things that are not class definitions (e.g.
> '--builtins--'). So two modifications are necessary:
> 
> 1 - use the getattr() function with each item returned by dir() to actually
> load the class object
> 2 - use type() to determine if it really it really is a classobj

I would suggest "hasattr" with the method you're interested in as a better way 
to perform step 2. That should cover both old and new style classes quite happily.

Cheers,
Nick.


From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Wed Nov 17 08:15:23 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:15:23 -0300
Subject: don't NaN & infinities hide FP errors
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7BF9@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com]

#- Since Python floats are implemented using C doubles, 
#- assuming IEEE 754
#- compliance, certain operations should result in NaN or 
#- infinity. Don't
#- such special values hide errors? Would we want our variables to be in
#- such states? I feel it would be better if a floating point 
#- division by
#- zero (or other actions that produce NaNs or infinities) throws an
#- exception, just like an integer divide by zero.

Check Decimal FP, where you can control through the context, for example, if
0/0 returns NaN or throws an exception.

http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/module-decimal.html

.	Facundo
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From danperl at rogers.com  Sun Nov 14 23:55:17 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 23:55:17 -0500
Subject: .pyc files...
References: <1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com><mailman.6345.1100420943.5135.python-list@python.org><slrncpel29.hfd.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com><2mqfp0tuuutj01njq2400trfhd4vtbv81m@4ax.com><x7wtwolygl.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<w5GdnQyrL4ReuwXcRVn-gA@rogers.com>
	<mailman.6369.1100493358.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yIednb7tMPsrqwXcRVn-oA@rogers.com>

Right, a clarification may be in order.  I was following up on the part of 
the thread that was addressing only the removal of .pyc files and that is 
the "problem" I was refering to.  And I agree that my project does not 
address the creation of the .py[co] files in a location different from the 
location of the .py files (that's my understanding of PEP 304).

Dan

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.6369.1100493358.5135.python-list at python.org...
>    Dan> I have yet another solution to this problem and my solution is
>    Dan> platforms-independent.  Look especially at the "Mini Tutorial" on
>    Dan> http://pyfmf.sourceforge.net/zago.html.  It shows exactly how you
>    Dan> can clean up the .pyc and the .pyo files in a set of directory
>    Dan> trees.
>
> Note that PEP 304 is about more than just cleaning up .py[co] files.  For
> any number of reasons you might want to write them in non-standard places,
> not just remove them after-the-fact.
>
> Skip 




From lists at debpro.webcom.dk  Fri Nov  5 09:39:19 2004
From: lists at debpro.webcom.dk (Jacob Friis)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 15:39:19 +0100
Subject: Simple thread pools
In-Reply-To: <cmg2g5$j92$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <418A4900.7020304@debpro.webcom.dk>	<20041104102722.F815.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<mailman.5957.1099646551.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmfs68$9vc$02$2@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.5964.1099663362.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmg2g5$j92$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <418B9097.30101@debpro.webcom.dk>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>>I need to download 150000 files several times every day.
>>How would you solve that?
> 
> How do you download them?

HTTP.

> What sizes?

15K (approx)

> filetypes?

XML: RSS or Atom.

> Can they be packed beforehand?

Yes, if the web server I download from support GZIP.

> Do you even have enough bandwidth?

Yes.

> From how many servers do you query them?

6712 (approx)

> As you can see, there are more than a few questions - so how about
> elaborating a bit on the task you have to accomplish?

I am building an online aggregator.

Thanks,
Jacob


From theller at python.net  Wed Nov 24 07:11:00 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 13:11:00 +0100
Subject: 64-bit platform
Message-ID: <7jobv44r.fsf@python.net>

I cannot reach sourceforge's amd64 compilefarm server, and have no other
64-bit platform available.

Can some kind soul please tell me what the output of this little script
on a 64-bit Linux platform is:

import struct
print map(struct.calcsize, "bhilqP")

Thanks,

Thomas


From a.a.kanare at swan.ac.uk  Tue Nov  2 09:55:36 2004
From: a.a.kanare at swan.ac.uk (abhay)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 14:55:36 -0000
Subject: Confused with Underscores in Python
Message-ID: <cm87b4$e01$1@news.swman.net.uk>

Hi,

I'm a python newbie with an utmost zeal to master the language.
I have really not understood the concept of underscores used in some of the
methods in python. Is it somewhat smilar to declaring public, private or
protected methods as in java.
Any help is most welcomed.

Abhay




From wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca  Fri Nov 12 02:23:11 2004
From: wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca (Weiguang Shi)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 07:23:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: crc32 to be used as hash
References: <slrncp7e3j.bdf.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<mailman.6276.1100202639.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncp7skp.cvc.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<mailman.6296.1100220697.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncp8p6v.est.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>

Tim Peters wrote:
>...
>together did very well -- which implies that they weren't facing a
>very demanding problem.
I don't know about that. But all the experiments were trace-driven and
showed CRC32 is an excellent hash function (for the problem). Since
there haven't been counter-results reported, we might be able to
reject the null hypothesis: CRC32 is _not_ good for hashing address
traces.

>
>There's no reason to suppose, a priori, that's got much to do with the
>32-bit hash distribution of strings-in-email PythonLabs tested.
> ...
>
And I didn't say it did. Different workloads.

It should be apparent by now I was trying to do the similar things the
cited works did. As I gladly found there is a CRC32 function, upon my
first program in Python, I was alerted by the reference page saying
it's not a good hash function and wondered for what particular
reasons.

> ...
>
>This isn't 100% reliable either, though, and you can fiddle the above
>to find subfields and inputs where crc32 does better than the builtin
>hash.  For example, in the above, if the hash is shifted right by 11
>before taking the last 21 bits, the builtin hash does horribly,
>filling only 8K bins, but crc32 doesn't do any worse then than it did
>before.

It's good to know. According to Jain's paper, CRC32 _is_ relatively
bit-wise random (again, for the network workload). That's the property
I'm after.

Thanks for the discussion and the program.

Weiguang


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Nov 18 16:37:42 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:37:42 +0100
Subject: CGI and logging module
References: <419d0a70$0$221$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
	<cnj256$gmt$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <cnj4kt$f73$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> 2. If you want to see what is going wrong, put a try/except
> around the import statement and try to write something useful
> along with your results:
> 
> err = ''
> try:
>     import logging
> except Exception, ex:
>     err = str(ex)
> 
> print 'Content-type: test/html\r\n\r\n'
> blah blah blah
> print '<p>Error: %s</p>\r\n'
> 
> If you can manage to import the sys and traceback modules,
> you can get a more fully formatted exception using
> ''.join(traceback.format_exception(*sys.exc_info()))

I've just discovered the cgitb module, which offers a minimally intrusive
way to debug cgi scripts - just add

import cgitb
cgitb.enable()

at the top of the script.

(Yet another)
Peter



From lbates at syscononline.com  Mon Nov 29 15:24:05 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 14:24:05 -0600
Subject: Building web graphics with Python
In-Reply-To: <bee4de44.0411282217.650d0e73@posting.google.com>
References: <bee4de44.0411282217.650d0e73@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7IGdnbemapz-GDbcRVn-gg@comcast.com>

ReportLab Graphics module can produce graphics
and then save into many formats via Python Imaging
Library (PIL).

Larry Bates



Steven Feil wrote:
> I am wondering if there is a light weight Python library for producing
> web graphics on-the-fly. There is a C-language library called gd that
> can be used in a CGI program to produce gif images.  The Library can
> be used to produce graphics images that are dynamically generated.  I
> was wondering if there is something similar for Python.


From mj-usunto at tkb.pl  Wed Nov 10 07:19:36 2004
From: mj-usunto at tkb.pl (Marcin Jurczuk)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:19:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to find MAC address and uids?
References: <postmaster-718ADE.06591510112004@news1.east.earthlink.net>
	<cmt0mi$14b$1@korweta.task.gda.pl>
Message-ID: <cmt10o$2rd$1@korweta.task.gda.pl>

On 2004-11-10, Marcin Jurczuk <mj-usunto at tkb.pl> wrote:
> On 2004-11-10, Daniel T. <postmaster at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> 1) How can I programatically find the MAC address of the machine? Is it 
>> stored in a file I can look into? (MacOS X)
> What is syntax of this file ??
My Mistake :)
If you have access to /sbin/ifconfig (if MacOS X is FreeBSD based it should 
be in /sbin) you can use something like this:
>>> import os
>>> a=os.popen('/sbin/ifconfig bge0|grep ether').read().replace('\n','').split()[1]
>>> print a
00:30:84:b3:b3:3a
>>>

Important - replace bge0 your card name ...

>
>> 2) If I have a user name in a string how do I get his UID?
>
>>>> import pwd
>>>> pwd.getpwnam('spock')
> ('spock', 'x', 100, 101, '', '/export/home/spock', '/bin/bash')
>>>> pwd.getpwnam('spock')[2]
> 100
>>>>
>
>


-- 
Marcin Jurczuk, NIC-HDL: MJ1679-RIPE


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Sun Nov  7 13:54:13 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 19:54:13 +0100
Subject: Python OS
References: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmin1n$500$02$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6003.1099752590.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmiorc$j4b$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6021.1099783808.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmk7r1$4d0$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>	<mailman.6059.1099837930.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmldu9$a72$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.6080.1099848517.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmlr0j$m3p$00$1@news.t-online.com>

> Do you mean that there are no entirely C OSs?

I doubt it. e.g. GCC lacks the ability to create proper interrupt routines
for 68k-based architectures, as these need an rte (return from exception)
instead of an rts (return from subroutine) at their end, which GCC isn't
aware of. So for creating a interrupt registry, I had to resort to
assembler - at least by "poking" the right values into ram. This consisted
of a structure


typedef struct {
  short prefix[9];
  t_intHandler handler;
  short suffix[8];
} t_intWrapper;

where handler was set to my C function that was supposed to become an
interrupt handler and

t_intWrapper w = {
    0x4e56, 0x0000,0x08f9,
    0x0001, 0x00ff, 0xfa19,
    0x48e7, 0xfffe, 0x4eb9,
    handler,
    0x4cdf, 0x7fff, 0x08b9, 0x0001, 0x00ff, 0xfa19, 0x4e5e, 0x4e73
  };

beeing the initialisation of that t_intWrapper struct. The code simply
pushes registers on the stack and then jumps into the C function. The
address of such a struct was then set to the appropriate interrupt vector.

Now one can argue if that is still C, as it's written in a cpp-file thats
run through a compiler - but if that really counts as C, then of course you
can write anything in python (or VB or whatever languague you choose) by
simply writing out hexdigits to a file....

> Understood, however, note the terms prototype and virtual.  Perhaps I
> could create virtual hardware where needed, and play around with the
> timing issues in this manner (emulate them and create solutions
> prototyped in Python).

In you first post, you didn't mention virtual - only prototype. And
prototyping an OS for whatever hardware can't be done in pure python. Thats
all that was said. 

Writing a virtual machine for emulation can be done in python of course. But
then you can't write a OS for it in python as well (at least not in
CPython )- as your virtual machine must have some sort of byte-code, memory
model and so on. But the routines you write for the OS now must work
against that machine model, _not_ operate in CPython's execution model
(which is based on an existing os running on real hardware)

Now generating code for that machine in python means that you have to port
python to to your machine model - like jython is to java. That porting work
is akin to the one projects like ceese or unununium, writing memory
allocation routines and so on - for your machine model.

So I'd still say: No, you can't prototype an OS in python, neither for
virtual or real hardware. You _can_ add all sorts of modules, C-code and
what not to boot a machine into a python-interpreter that has all sorts of
os-services at its hand by certain modules, like the forementioned projects
attempt.

But creating a VM only leverages that work to the next level, retaining the
initial problems. If you don't do it that way, you don't prototype anything
like an OS nor implement a machine model but instead meddle some things
together by creating a machine model that is so powerful (e.g. has an
built-in notion for lists, dicts and the like) that it can't be taken
seriously as educational for writing an OS - at least to me, as the virtue
of writing an OS is to actually _deal_ with low-level matters, otherwise
there is no challenge in it. 

I don't say that this is not a worthy project to undertake for educational
purposes - but I wouldn't call it an OS, as it does not teach what creating
an OS from scratch is supposed to teach.

For example you can't write a OS for the JAVA VM, as there is no such things
like interrupts defined for it - instead IO happends "magically" and is
dealt with on the low level with the underlying OS. The VM only consumes
the results.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Sat Nov 13 22:01:09 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 19:01:09 -0800
Subject: numarray memory leak
In-Reply-To: <cn6fk4$akl$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk>
References: <cn6fk4$akl$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <cn6hpm$m5b$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Peter Dobcsanyi wrote:
> Calling the following function with a large enough 'n' causes memory leak.
> 
>     import numarray as N
> 
>     def loop(n, m=100):
>         for i in xrange(n):
>             a = N.zeros((m,m))
>             N.matrixmultiply(a, a)
> 
> If the matrixmultiply line is commented out, there is no leak, the
> program has a stable memory size.
> 
> I am using numarray 1.1, the result is the same with Python 2.3.4 and
> 2.4b2.

I don't see such behavior on Mac OSX 10.3, Python 2.3, CVS numarray and 
n=10000.

Could you try CVS numarray? What n did you use?

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From heikowu at ceosg.de  Sun Nov 21 03:48:35 2004
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 09:48:35 +0100
Subject: R BATCH jobs from Python
In-Reply-To: <200411201804.21573.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
References: <ccdb2248.0411201530.1ee3df95@posting.google.com>
	<200411201804.21573.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
Message-ID: <200411210948.36003.heikowu@ceosg.de>

Am Sonntag, 21. November 2004 01:04 schrieb Terry Hancock:
> But I suspect it looks like this:
>
> os.system('cd c:\Applications\R\rw1091\bin')
> os.system('Rcmd BATCH c:\test.txt')

Look out for the snake's escaping rules... I bet you meant:

os.system(r'cd c:\Applications\R\rw1091\bin')
os.system(r'Rcmd BATCH c:\test.txt')

So that the backslash doesn't escape the next character, but is verbatim... 
That's one reason to hate windows... ;)

Heiko.


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Nov  8 16:02:16 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 21:02:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Determining combination of bits
References: <x3Qjd.121786$hj.41260@fed1read07>
	<mailman.6124.1099945664.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8KQjd.121796$hj.4674@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <loom.20041108T215041-760@post.gmane.org>

Sean Berry <sean <at> buildingonline.com> writes:
> 
> I am using two database tables.  One will have some options and a code 
> (power of 2).
> 
> Then, someone will check off checkboxes and submit.  The number will be 
> added and saved in a cookie.  Then, later, I want to be able to redisplay 
> their choices by reading the value from the cookie.

You might look at the number_in_base thread:

http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=4186990d.1364093693%40news.oz.net

This gives a solution something like:

>>> def number_in_base(n, b=10, digits='0123456789ABCDEF'):
...     return '-'[:n<0]+''.join(reversed(list(
...         digits[r]                
...         for q in [abs(n)]
...         for q, r in iter(lambda: divmod(q, b), (0, 0))))) or digits[0]
... 
>>> digits = number_in_base(22, 2)
>>> [power_of_2
...  for power_of_2, digit
...  in zip(reversed([2**x for x in range(len(digits))]), digits)
...  if digit == '1']
[16, 4, 2]


Steve



From lynn at crazedimaginations.net  Sat Nov 20 14:43:35 2004
From: lynn at crazedimaginations.net (Lynn)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 11:43:35 -0800
Subject: stopping the sound server in PySol code -- how?
References: <iqAnd.69632$SW3.42915@fed1read01>
	<pan.2004.11.20.16.05.21.35935@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <G7Nnd.69700$SW3.26433@fed1read01>

Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch wrote:

> In <iqAnd.69632$SW3.42915 at fed1read01>, Lynn wrote:
> 
>> I have a SuSe 9.1 linux box (although this isn't a new issue) with
>> reasonably up to date everything.  When I run PySol, it grabs the sound
>> system in a rude and complete way.
>> 
>> I don't listen to sound and I NEED my sound system available even if
>> PySol is running.
> 
> Do you have KDE and its sound server running?  Then you can try to start
> PySol with the ``artsdsp`` wrapper.  The program intercepts access to the
> low level sound devices in /dev/* and passes the data to the sound server.
> See ``artsdsp --help`` for options.
> 
> Ciao,
> Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch


Alas, this produces a "artsdsp works only for binaries" error.
-- 
Peace, Love and Absolute Pleasure
Crazed Imaginations RHPS cast
www.crazedimaginations.net


From kmcbrearty at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 21 09:54:40 2004
From: kmcbrearty at yahoo.com (Kevin McBrearty)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 06:54:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Small Database Needed
Message-ID: <20041121145440.85318.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello All,

I'm looking at implementing DB in my program for
analysis of CAD (STL Files).  This database will
require the basic functionality.

Query
Sort
Delete/Add Records


I did some looking at the DB packages out there. But,
I'm not interseted in setuping up some huge thing.  It
would be great if it is fast, but I can live with a
sub-optimal solution for the present.  My interest is
in getting it up and running.  

Since, I'm new to Python so please don't hold back on
the comments.

Regards,
        Kevin


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! 
http://my.yahoo.com 
 



From maxm at mxm.dk  Mon Nov 15 10:35:19 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:35:19 +0100
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <ZR1md.4916$nj.2331@lakeread01>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<boKdncuh1ZBxbgrcRVn-gA@giganews.com>
	<L0Tld.2114$nj.1155@lakeread01>
	<41985663$0$272$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<ZR1md.4916$nj.2331@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <4198cc5f$0$258$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Max M wrote:
> 
>> Steve Holden wrote:
>>
>>> You managed to get it to run? I found the whole load opaque beyond 
>>> belief, and removed it after an hour's examination.
>>
>>
>>
>> Where you on Windows or Linux?
>>
> Windows.


I thought so :-)

I'm on Windows too, and Z3 the installer seems to be in a pretty sorrow 
state there.

I think it is pretty simple to get it running. But stuff like scripts 
being called "mkzopeinstane" instead of "mkzopeinstane.py" and there 
being references to folders that don't exists in the Windows install, so 
you need to guess which ones to use instead.

Minor things like that. But if you have no idea as to how the things 
should be connected they get pretty major.

-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sat Nov  6 18:48:43 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 18:48:43 -0500
Subject: Python OS
In-Reply-To: <418CF1DA.2000001@benjiyork.com>
References: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmin1n$500$02$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6003.1099752590.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmiorc$j4b$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6005.1099754306.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmiqao$5s8$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<418CF1DA.2000001@benjiyork.com>
Message-ID: <418D62DB.1010006@cloudthunder.com>

Benji York wrote:

> Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>
>> And it backs my assertions:
>
>
> Definitely.  I missed that part.
>
> I wonder if someone were to start a similar project today if they 
> would be able to use Pyrex (which generates C) to do large parts of 
> the OS.
>
> Perhaps when I retire <wink>.

An intriguing possibility, I do not see what obstacles exist here but I 
am sure they exist.  A question:  In Pyrex may I perform a malloc?


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Nov  2 10:06:42 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 16:06:42 +0100
Subject: Test a Python function within Python without importing
References: <mailman.5808.1099406409.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cm87q1$3nn$01$1@news.t-online.com>



use exec on the compiled object - the details are in the docs. 
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov 30 16:54:46 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:54:46 GMT
Subject: Syntax for extracting multiple items from a dictionary
References: <TuednaLvv_626THcRVn-hA@rcn.net>
	<cohvj3$m4g$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <41aceaf6.1444573476@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:20:19 +0100, Stefan Behnel <behnel_ml at gkec.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:

>
>
>shark schrieb:
>> row = {"fname" : "Frank", "lname" : "Jones", "city" : "Hoboken", "state" :
>> "Alaska"}
>> cols = ("city", "state")
>> 
>> Is there a best-practices way to ask for an object containing only the keys
>> named in cols out of row? In other words, to get this:
>> {"city" : "Hoboken", "state" : "Alaska"}
>
>Untested:
>
>dict( (key,value) for (key,value) in row.iteritems() if key in cols )

If there's an overall why for doing it at all, why not just iterate through
keys of interest? I.e., (untested)

 dict( (key, row[key]) for key in cols )

>
>Works in Py2.4
>
>Stefan

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From godoy at ieee.org  Tue Nov  2 13:42:39 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 16:42:39 -0200
Subject: RadioBox in wxPython
References: <417e0899@news.seeder.net>
	<mailman.5503.1098793300.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<KGEfd.35074$QJ3.3747@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<mailman.5542.1098850844.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3lldknlcw.fsf@g2ctech.com>

Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> writes:

> On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 03:34 +0000, StvB wrote:
>> Do I have to go to 2.4 in order to start using wx.Control, versus wxControl 
>> ?
>
> Yes.  But frankly, if you are going to upgrade, why not go to 2.5?  In
> 2.4 the wx namespace is a hack.  In 2.5 it's the real thing.  Plus there
> are plenty of other enhancements.

One reason is that the website states that 2.4 is the latest stable
series, while 2.5 is the latest development series.

WRT the hack, the wxwidgets people abandoned the changes there...  

-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at ieee.org>


From dd55 at cornell.edu  Sun Nov 14 17:12:24 2004
From: dd55 at cornell.edu (Darren Dale)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 17:12:24 -0500
Subject: determining the number of output arguments
Message-ID: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>

Hello,

def test(data):

	i = ? This is the line I have trouble with

	if i==1: return data 
	else: return data[:i]

a,b,c,d = test([1,2,3,4])

How can I set i based on the number of output arguments defined in 
(a,b,c,d)?

Thank you,
Darren


From mwm at mired.org  Wed Nov  3 08:59:33 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 07:59:33 -0600
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<x7lldjv2gq.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<mailman.5863.1099468772.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <x7654nuj7e.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> writes:

> Mike Meyer <mwm <at> mired.org> writes:
>> First of all, let's mention a truly weakly-typed language. BCPL, one
>> of C's predecessors. Variables don't have types, they just hold
>> words.
> So BCPL had no compile time checking?  If this is true, BCPL is a good example
> of a dynamically- and weakly-typed (PL theory definition) language...

I wouldn't call BCPL dynamically typed. BCPL has no run-time type
checking either. That seems to be the defining feature of dynamically
typed languages.

>> Finally, I don't see that there's that much difference between the two
>> different definitions of 'weakly typed'.  Both can be described as
>> treating an object as if it were of some type other than what it
>> really is. In one case, you abuse the raw bits, and in the other you
>> coerce the object to a different type.
> Would you then classify BCPL as weakly- or strongly-typed?  It seems like you
> might call it "strongly-typed" since every variable just holds words, so every
> use of a variable is thus just the use of a word, thus you would never be
> "treating an object as if it were of some type other than what it really is".

A word is just a unit of storage, not a type. Words hold values with
types - integer, float, pointer, code, chars. Nothing in BCPL prevents
you from treating a word as any type at all. You can call a pointer to
string, or do an integer add of a pair of floats. So it's weakly
typed.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From mfuhr at fuhr.org  Fri Nov  5 18:10:40 2004
From: mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 16:10:40 -0700
Subject: executing python code
References: <cmgvvd$chn$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <418c0870$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>

Darren Dale <dd55 at cornell.edu> writes:

> Some time ago I asked about executing a python program or script. For
> windows, I was informed that the .py extension could be added to some list
> of executable extensions, and then I could just type "mycode" instead of
> "python mycode.py". Great advice, worked like a charm.
>
> I recently jumped ship, and have been running Gentoo Linux for about two
> months. Is it possible to get the same behavior on Linux? I thought it
> would have something to do with adding the #!/usr/bin/env python line to my
> code, but I'm not sure what this is supposed to do (it didnt work, that
> much I know.)

How didn't it work?  What did you do and what happened?  What errors
were printed?  Did you use chmod to make the script executable?  Is
the script in a directory that's in your PATH?  Is Python installed
on the system?

-- 
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/


From a.cecchi at gmail.com  Thu Nov 25 13:52:46 2004
From: a.cecchi at gmail.com (Alexandre Cecchi)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 19:52:46 +0100
Subject: Replacing words from strings except 'and' / 'or' / 'and not'
In-Reply-To: <41A5EFA9.5030907@arcor.de>
References: <41A5EFA9.5030907@arcor.de>
Message-ID: <2965f4e104112510525853a66a@mail.gmail.com>

> Hi there,
> 
> Background of this question is:
> I want to convert all words <word> except 'and' / 'or' / 'and not' from
> a string into '*<word>*'.

Hello,

def do(s):
    L = []
    for x in s.split():
        if x in ('or','and'):
            L.append(x)    
        elif x == 'not' and L and L[-1] == 'and':
            L.append('not')
        else:
            L.append("'*%s*'" % x)
    return ' '.join(L)

I think that it is more readable, maybe not faster, elegant I don't know =)
print 'Yeahh it was my first post on the list.'

bye.


From jwaixs at freeler.nl  Sat Nov  6 08:33:50 2004
From: jwaixs at freeler.nl (Noud Aldenhoven)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 14:33:50 +0100
Subject: Beginning with Classes
Message-ID: <a37cb$418cce14$53e8229a$32210@freeler.nl>

Hello,

For almost half a year I'm programming in Python. I never programmed before
Python. In that half year I learned a lot, but one thing I still can't
programme correct... Classes.

Is there a tutorial or a documentation about Python and classes. Starting
from beginners and ending in avarege or expert?

Thank you,

Noud Aldenhoven
The Netherlands 


From mnews2 at wp.pl  Sun Nov  7 21:45:19 2004
From: mnews2 at wp.pl (Maciej Katafiasz)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 03:45:19 +0100
Subject: How come wxPython isn't in the standard library?
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<aj3u52-a2r.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<ogjv52-anq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<mailman.6060.1099838610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmli2h$c18$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<1099858070.544710.146320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.08.02.45.17.938980@wp.pl>

On day Sun, 07 Nov 2004 12:07:50 -0800 looked the Lord upon his prophet,
and the prophet was numbered among those called Greg  Steffensen. And thus
spake the prophet:

> wxPython and Tkinter are more portable than PyQT and PyGTK.  Moreover,
> wxPython is not just another toolkit... its a set of bindings to a very
> active toolkit that also has bindings for C++, Java, Javascript, Perl,
> Ruby, Basic, Haskell, .NET and Eiffel, among others.  wxWidgets is
> already something of an open-source standard, independent of Python's
> relationship.  If wxPython were included in the standard library, it
> would become easier for developers to port code from those languages to
> Python.  And because wxWidgets is such a large project, Python would be
> able to benefit from its progress, providing regular language
> improvements with little effort from the Python devs.

That's not really true. wxWidgets is (IMHO) clearly inferior to PyGTK. It
has not as nice API (reminds me of Win32 API, which is disastrous), isn't
in my experience really stable, uses outdated gtk+ 1.2 on my primary
platform, and even gtk+ 1.2 isn't fully used, instead we have some strange
things for any non-trivial (or rather, non-LCD) widget, like treeview or
fileselector. I feel no urge to have yet another "standard" GUI in python
I won't ever use.

> As for the size issue, the fact that including wxPython would triple
> the size of the size of the standard disto says more about the current
> state of the standard distro than it does about wxPython.  If the
> Python devs intend to keep the standard distribution at less than 10 mb
> forever, then I think world-domination is impossible.

That doesn't change the fact that tripling the size is not something you
do everyday. Especially not for (again, IMHO) rather useless component.

> The universal availability of a modern, portable gui toolkit is a
> major feature that languages can provide, and if Python decides to
> reject this, then it will lose popularity to other languages that don't.

This is untrue. Entire notion of "portable toolkit" comes from wrong
assumption there exists anything near portability in GUI. There simply
isn't anything like portable UI, and conversely, creation of any
"portable" toolkit is doomed since day zero.

> Assuming that language penetration is a major motivator for the devs, I
> think that wxPython inclusion really is something that we need to start
> considering.

GUI toolkit isn't something a language should provide. Things that make
sense to be in standard library have to be universally available and
useful. Regular expressions are universally useful, GUI toolkit which is
very platform-specific isn't. So it doesn't make sense to include it in
stdlib. Especially not-so-good toolkits shouldn't be there (and as I said,
I don't consider wxWidgets to be good toolkit)

-- 
"Tautologizm to co? tautologicznego"
Mathrick <mnews2 at wp.pl>



From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Nov 20 02:18:32 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 07:18:32 GMT
Subject: Identifying exceptions that can be raised
In-Reply-To: <cnmcek$rju$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
References: <cVdnd.7986$tS4.4873@trndny09>
	<mailman.6579.1100837821.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<6Rknd.6671$%M4.4203@trndny08>
	<cnmcek$rju$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <cdCnd.510$uV6.325@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Nope.  That's that nasty ol' Java thinkin'. ;-)
> 
> Basically, given the dynamicism that is Python's hallmark,
> you can't guarantee that any given function won't raise
> an arbitrary exception.

One of my puzzlements about Java 10 years ago or so was
why it decided to go the "must declare every exception" route.

Consider this simple and naive numeric integrator

def integrate(f, start, end, n):
   delta = (end-start)/float(n)
   x = start + delta / 2
   sum = 0.0
   for i in range(n+1):
     sum = sum + f(x)
     x += delta
   return sum / (n+1)

That function cannot define all the exceptions that can be
raised because f itself can raise an arbitrary exception.  Eg,

def f1(x):
   return 1/max(5-x, 0))  # Can raise a divide-by-zero error

integrate(f1, 0, 10, 5)

Java handles that case by saying you don't need to declare
system exceptions.  Then consider

def f2(x):
   fname = os.path.join("/cache/directory", str(x))
   if os.path.exists(fname):
     return float(open(fname, "r").read())
   y = _f2(x)
   outfile = open(fname, "w")
   try:
     outfile.write(str(y))
   finally:
     outfile.close()
   return y

integrate(f2, 0, 10, 10)

If the file is not readable, or the directory not readable,
then this might raise an IOError.

How does the 'integrate' function declare that it can raise
any of the errors that the integrator function 'f' might raise?

Again, IOError might be considered a system-level error
such that it doesn't need declaring.  Then change it to
polling some URL ("http://cache.server/" + str(x)) when the
network is down, or getting it from some SQL database when
the password is incorrect, or anything else that cannot be
determined until actually calling f().

It looks like the only thing to do is convert all such
unhandled exceptions and wrap them in a catch-all generic
exception.  I think I've seen people do that.  But if so,
what's the point of having typed exceptions?

Curiously-y'rs,

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com



From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Sun Nov 14 23:13:47 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 23:13:47 -0500
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <%FUld.2118$nj.1676@lakeread01>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<boKdncuh1ZBxbgrcRVn-gA@giganews.com>
	<L0Tld.2114$nj.1155@lakeread01>
	<pM2dnc8i1JpejAXcRVn-uQ@giganews.com>
	<%FUld.2118$nj.1676@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <dPSdnX8Rn_VnsQXcRVn-qw@giganews.com>

Steve Holden wrote:

> how to put sites together, and the best way to achieve 
> various results, and so on.

The entire  Zope Book is available online:

http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_6Edition/view

I consider that as good of a startup documentation as it can
get. This covers 2.6 but as far as I could tell the only
major change that  2.7 introduced relates to the way
the zope sites are stored on the file system, they became
better separated  (a much needed  improvement BTW).
It is not an easy read though.

 > Searching for information about Zope is a nightmare of
 > broken links and outdated content

I did notice that too. In all fairness most of that content
is already in the Zope book and sometimes I wonder whether
it was the online availability of this latter was the
cause of it all.

Istvan.

PS. just noticed that they have a 2.7 edition of the Zope book
but it is being written:
http://www.plope.com/Books/2_7Edition


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Nov 10 06:15:25 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:15:25 +0100
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<tyfekj44shs.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxizh.3rip5na92f0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyfacts4of3.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gmxn7d.19o8q51jt2gu5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<wtww9u4p.fsf@python.net> <cmo88k$1ot$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<tyfoei72yxd.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<2vbunuF2kakbcU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<tyf7jou2ia6.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <cmst8d$uht$05$1@news.t-online.com>

> Remember that "inline" (and the implicit inline you generate by
> _defining_ the method in the class itself) is merely a hint to the
> compiler, which the compiler is perfectly entitled to ignore. One
> situation in which the compiler is _guaranteed_ to ignore it is if you
> also declare the method to be virtual, for example. In general, it may
> choose to inlne some of the calls while not others.
> 
> I don't think that declaring a function to be inline makes any
> guarantess about whether you will find a symbol for that function in
> the object code. But the ODR guarantees that sorting this mess out is
> the compiler's problem, not yours.

You are right -  I just created a test-project with two object files that
stem from .cc-files where the same class with an inlined  function "bar" is
included. What happens is that nm shows me that the function "bar" is
defined weak - according to nm (and what I understand about that) this
means that in presence of another symbol of that name, it will be ignored.
So both files contain a definition for bar, but the linker is able to sort
it out.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From lashkariNO at SPAMworldviz.com  Wed Nov 10 15:55:37 2004
From: lashkariNO at SPAMworldviz.com (Farshid Lashkari)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:55:37 GMT
Subject: Beginner's scoping question
References: <4ef0f3a4.0411101240.21132006@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <dfvkd.12427$z_4.11335@trnddc07>

Hi,

You need to declare "a" as global before when you assign something to it
inside a function.

def __init__(self):
    global a
    a = 2

-Farshid

"Alan Little" <contact at alanlittle.org> wrote in message
news:4ef0f3a4.0411101240.21132006 at posting.google.com...
> a=1
> b=[]
> class C():
>    def __init__(self):
>       a=2
>       b.append(3)
>
> c = C()
>
> print b
> # [3]
>
> # but ...
> print a
> # 1
>
> ???




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Nov 22 15:57:03 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:57:03 -0500
Subject: zip module password
In-Reply-To: <cnt99a$n2n$2@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
References: <cnt99a$n2n$2@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
Message-ID: <cntjm6$qc2$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Michele Petrazzo wrote:
> Is there a method for add a password to a file created by zip module?

This link 
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=305470&aid=698833&group_id=5470
suggests that there is no such support in the standard zipfile module
yet, but that a patch has been available for some time (but has
not yet been accepted).

Google found this, and other notes on the topic...

-Peter


From behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de  Thu Nov 25 07:14:29 2004
From: behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 13:14:29 +0100
Subject: import can't find xml.sax.saxlib from PyXML
Message-ID: <co4ib6$pkn$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>

Hi!

I'm using PyXML 0.8.3 on a number of machines. When I now run

import xml.sax.saxlib

python touches both the python/xml/sax and python/site-packages/_xmlplus 
modules but not _xmlplus/sax (I see that from strace), and then only 
searches for saxlib in python/xml/sax, i.e. in stdlib. I therefore get an 
ImportError though saxlib exists in _xmlplus/sax.

I know that it worked before, but I can't tell what changed on the systems 
during new installations of new python versions. I tried it with 2.3 
(which worked before but somewhat surprisingly doesn't work any more) and 
2.4 (where I never managed to make this work).

Does anyone have a hint what I could try?

Thanks,
Stefan


From ossix at ossix.net  Sat Nov 13 19:24:45 2004
From: ossix at ossix.net (steven alyari)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:24:45 -0700
Subject: IMAP4 example in docs causes memory error for me (OS X 10.3, 
Message-ID: <95E7BF30-35D3-11D9-800B-000A95DBE2DA@ossix.net>

just to follow up, it seems that every message after the 115th message 
has this issue

though i don't know what this means just yet.

steven



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Nov 17 15:48:53 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:48:53 -0600
Subject: thread, threading; how to kill a thread?
In-Reply-To: <m37jokwiqj.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
References: <m37jokwiqj.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
Message-ID: <419BB935.8010005@colorstudy.com>

I might reiterate this request, but knowing the standard answer (you 
can't) -- what if I *really* want to?  In situations when a thread 
becomes wedged, I don't know a way to get out of it.  I don't even know 
a way to end the process elegantly, instead I have to kill -9 the process.

Even if it messes things up and I have to restart the process at the 
soonest possible time to clean up the problems, it would be nice to be 
able to exit the process.  As it is, the only robust way to deal with 
the situation is to have a separate process that (at the original 
process's request) will kill it, an assisted-suicide style.  That's 
awkward to handle.

This is an issue with long-running threaded servers (like Webware or 
even Zope), where even in the face of bugs it's important to keep the 
service up.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From abpillai at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 03:53:43 2004
From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 00:53:43 -0800
Subject: Modification to asyncore.py to support threaded event loop
Message-ID: <8548c5f3.0411040053.15644bfe@posting.google.com>

This is for folks who are familiar with asynchronous event handling in
Python using the asyncore module.

If you have ever used the asyncore module, you will realize that it's
event loop does not have a programmable exit condition. It keeps
looping till the channels in its socket map (a dictionary) are closed
and don't have any pending reads/writes.

If you are using Python threads in your application, by using either
the threading or thread modules, adding asyncore capability on top of
it is a bit tricky. The moment you call asyncore.loop after
initializing your asyncore based client/server, it takes over the main
thread. Hence, if you want to mix threaded classes (derived from
threading.Thread) and asyncore in one program, the only recourse is to
create and initialize all your thread objects first and call
asyncore.loop as the last function in your main thread.

However, with a small hack it is possible to get asyncore event loop
running in its own thread, as shown below.

The following is a mixin class, which derives from threading.Thread
and also overrides asyncore.loop in its 'run()' method.

-==========================================================================-
import threading

class AsyncoreThread(threading.Thread):
    """ Asyncore thread class """

    def __init__(self, timeout=30.0, use_poll=0,map=None):
        self.flag=True
        self.timeout=30.0
        self.use_poll=use_poll
        self.map=map
        threading.Thread.__init__(self, None, None, 'asyncore thread')
        
    def run(self):

        self.loop()

    def loop(self):

        # print 'In AsyncoreThread:loop...'
        if self.map is None:
            self.map = asyncore.socket_map

        if self.use_poll:
            if hasattr(select, 'poll'):
                poll_fun = asyncore.poll3
            else:
                poll_fun = asyncore.poll2
        else:
            # print 'Using asyncore.poll...'
            poll_fun=asyncore.poll

        while self.map and self.flag:
            poll_fun(self.timeout,self.map)

    def end(self):
        print 'Ending asyncore loop...'
        self.flag=False
        self.map=None

-============================================================================-
Now you can initialize your asyncore based clients/servers and instead
of calling 'asyncore.loop', do it as follows,

t=AsyncoreThread(timeout=mytimeout,...)
t.start()

Since the 'run()' method of this class calls 'loop()' which is exactly
the same as asyncore.loop, only that it gets the asyncore event
handler running in a separate thread, without monopolizing the main
thread of your Python app.

I have used this model successfully in my program, HarvestMan. I wrote
to Sam Rushing, author of asyncore module and here is what he said.

<QUOTE>
"I would recommend separating out your event loop and sending it to
the
Python folks for possible inclusion in the asyncore module.  I had
always intended the loop() function in asyncore.py to be a 'field
replaceable item', and in fact have over the years made many different
versions of it.  Though this isn't really talked about in asyncore.py,
it's clear if you look at Medusa, which is where the module came
from."
</QUOTE>

Perhaps this is worth a PEP for inclusion in Python 2.4?

Thanks & Regards

-Anand


From gao_bolin at voila.fr  Tue Nov  9 12:47:31 2004
From: gao_bolin at voila.fr (Bolin)
Date: 9 Nov 2004 09:47:31 -0800
Subject: Getting Windows computer system info
Message-ID: <93c5215b.0411090947.a955001@posting.google.com>

I was wondering how to get some system info from a PC running Windows
in python. I am especially interested in knowing how much RAM the
computer has, how much diskspace is still left, and what jobs are
already running and how much memory they take. If this is off-topic, I
would appreciate if you redirect me.

Thank!

B.


From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Thu Nov  4 16:10:30 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 22:10:30 +0100
Subject: New configuration module released
In-Reply-To: <O_udnfjCtPsHCBfcRVn-uw@rogers.com>
References: <2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840@posting.google.com><4d2dnXe5XY7bmxTcRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<mailman.5876.1099519315.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<VPWdnWBATKx3wxTcRVn-ug@rogers.com> <2uv9goF2f3161U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<O_udnfjCtPsHCBfcRVn-uw@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <2uvk66F2eu02qU1@uni-berlin.de>

Dan Perl wrote:
> Thanks for the suggestion.  What are you using for a python implementation? 
> I saw that there is PyYAML and Syck (multi-language, including python).

I use PyYAML and am quite happy with it. I did only standard things like
lists and dicts of ints and strings, and it works like a charm.

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From ville at spammers.com  Wed Nov 24 14:27:00 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 24 Nov 2004 21:27:00 +0200
Subject: teaching OO [ + multimethods & @decorators ]
References: <slrncq8inq.9gv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<du7ekij6rq5.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<slrncq9lgo.npu.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <du78y8r6oaj.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Gabriel" == Gabriel Zachmann <zach at cs.uni-bonn.de> writes:

    >> I don't think virtual classes (as in inheriting from base classes
    >> "virtually" to avoid a certain multiple inheritance problems) is all
    >> that important in this single inheritance favouring world.

    Gabriel> ah, sorry, i meant "classes with virtual methods" (i.e.,
    Gabriel> classes that have RTTI).

Ah, ok. Python has the clear upper hand here because everything is
"virtual", type(obj) is always the "most derived" version.

BTW, a slight terminology correction - having a "virtual table"
doesn't necessitate existence of RTTI, in fact some systems (Symbian
OS at least) omit RTTI on purpose but still have virtual
functions. Having RTTI means dynamic_cast<Foo>(obj) can return NULL if
obj can not be cast to Foo, while e.g. in Symbian OS C++ environment
dynamic_cast is just the same as static_cast, with all the Access
Violations that go with it :-).

    >> The concept of overloading is easy, you can go one step further by
    >> introducing generic functions / multimethods through one of the
    >> modules floating around the net.

    Gabriel> You mean in Python? (or C++)
    Gabriel> Could you give me a pointer to one of those modules?

http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-pydisp.html

http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~edloper/pydecorators.html

(the last one has the wrong guess for @decorator syntax, and so has
the examples wrong).

Google for "python generic function decorator" or something along
those lines for more. I bet we'll see one @decorator implementation
become pretty "standard" once Python 2.4 goes final.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From jerry at jerrysievers.com  Sun Nov 28 20:58:04 2004
From: jerry at jerrysievers.com (Jerry Sievers)
Date: 28 Nov 2004 20:58:04 -0500
Subject: Closing files
References: <1gnz2kq.1jnqpi01tkznh0N%news+0409@henrikholm.com>
Message-ID: <m3u0r9e7rn.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>

news+0409 at henrikholm.com (Henrik Holm) writes:

[+]
> I have recently started playing around with Python.  Some of the things
> I have done have involved reading files.  The way I do this is along the
> lines of
> 
>   f = file('file.txt')
>   lines = f.readlines()
>   f.close()

Verbose and readable.  A typical approach.

[+]
> 
> I have noticed that it is possible to do this in one line:
> 
>   lines = file('file.txt').readlines()
> 
> My question is: does the file get closed if I do the reading in this
> manner?

It appears to be closed on my Linux system as by using this shorthand
approach, you are not saving any reference to the file object.

Evidently, it is closed immediatly after the statement executes.
There's no point in the file staying open as you'd have no way to
refer to it any more.

[+]
> 
> Similarly, for reading the output from other programs or system
> commands, I would do:
> 
>   o = popen('executable')
>   lines = o.readlines()
>   o.close()
> 
> Is it OK to do this with a one-liner as well, with
> 
>   lines = popen('executable').readlines()

My guess is that this is probably OK too.  At least for simple cases.

My experience has been, that by going for maximum terseness, you
eventually get into trouble somehow.

YMMV

[+]
> 
> without closing the file object?

If you are going to have one or more references to the file or pipe
object, you must either close them or delete the reference to the
object using del().

If you are running on Unix, do some experimentation with the 'fuser'
or 'lsof' commands to see if the system is reporting the files open or
closed.

Or why not for fun;

while True:
	file('/tmp/foo')

I bet this runs forever and you don't run out of open file descriptors
:-)


[+]
> 
> Thanks,
> Henrik Holm

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Sievers   305 854-3001 (home)     WWW ECommerce Consultant
                305 321-1144 (mobile	http://www.JerrySievers.com/


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Tue Nov  2 13:10:45 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:10:45 -0500
Subject: document as child in DOM ??
In-Reply-To: <1099413768.2759.16.camel@swdb>
References: <1099413768.2759.16.camel@swdb>
Message-ID: <4187CDA5.7050108@bellsouth.net>

Juliano Freitas wrote:

>I have a document as a string:
>
>xmltext = """<?xml version='1.0'?>
><root>
>	<parara>text</parara>
></root>"""
>
>then i transform the string into a document with fromString method.
>
>i want tu put this "xmltext" as a child to another document called
>"swdb"?
>how can i do this??
>
><swdb>
>  <root>
>	<parara>text</parara>
>  </root>
>...
></swdb>
>
>i tryed the importNode and appendNode, but i dont if i'm doing right!
>
>Juliano Freitas
>
>  
>
How about something like this:

In [30]: x1
Out[30]: "<?xml version='1.0'?>\n<root>\n    <parara>text</parara>\n</root>"

In [31]: x2
Out[31]: "<?xml version='1.0'?>\n<root2>\n</root2>"

In [32]: d1 = minidom.parseString(x1)

In [33]: d2 = minidom.parseString(x2)

In [34]: d2.documentElement.appendChild(d1.documentElement)
Out[34]: <DOM Element: root at 0xf6b0d4ac>

In [35]: print d2.toprettyxml()
<?xml version="1.0" ?>
<root2>


        <root>

   
                <parara>
                        text
                </parara>


        </root>
</root2>

-------------- next part --------------
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From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Wed Nov 24 10:57:02 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:57:02 +0100
Subject: asynchat and threading
References: <Ij1pd.19554$ld2.4796764@twister.nyc.rr.com>
	<mailman.6755.1101310280.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.24.15.57.02.129894@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Thu, 25 Nov 2004 02:31:17 +1100 schrieb Anthony Baxter:

> On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:57:44 GMT, Rob Snyder <arkham at gmail.com> wrote:
> I can only paraphrase what I said in a recent python-dev thread -
> absolutely *no-one* should be starting new projects using asyncore and
> asynchat. Use twisted, instead - it's cleaner, saner, has an active
> development community, and is in all ways a better solution than the
> asyncore approach.
> 
> asyncore based code causes bleeding from the eyes and brain leakage
> through the ears.

Hi,

then the core of twisted should be in the standard library of python,
and asyncore should become deprecated.

This could save a lot of people a lot of time.

 Thomas



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Nov 15 19:19:02 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:19:02 +1100
Subject: Splitting a class definition into several files?
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE4A90B0@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

Jerry wrote:

> My "main" class is getting a bit long...Is it possble to split a
> class definition into several files and then import the pieces to get
> the whole definition? 

Well, one way is to use multiple inheritance:

    class RealClass_Part1:
        def method1 (self):
            pass

    class RealClass_Part2:
        def method2 (self):
            pass

    class RealClass (RealClass_Part1, RealClass_Part2):
        def __init__(self):
            pass

Tim Delaney


From michael at stroeder.com  Fri Nov 19 04:50:33 2004
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:50:33 +0100
Subject: CGI and logging module
In-Reply-To: <cnj4kt$f73$04$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <419d0a70$0$221$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
	<cnj256$gmt$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<cnj4kt$f73$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <98s072-092.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

Peter Otten wrote:
> 
> import cgitb
> cgitb.enable()

But make sure to turn it off when going public with your service since 
it reveals interesting information to an attacker.

Ciao, Michael.


From hengre386 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 24 03:27:22 2004
From: hengre386 at yahoo.com (GET YOUR FREE TRIP)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 04 08:27:22 GMT
Subject: GET YOUR FREE TRIP
Message-ID: <04112408272226173@newshost.allthenewsgroups.com>

TRIPS TO DESNEY
TRIPS TO HAWAII
ALL FREE

http://travelexpert2004.us

http://travelexpert2004.biz

http://gotraveling85.us




From finite.automaton at gmail.com  Wed Nov 10 13:37:25 2004
From: finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 10:37:25 -0800
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<87d5ysbkq9.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<4b39d922.0411051555.24f31663@posting.google.com>
	<tyffz3j2mi2.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<4b39d922.0411091159.3b6e2682@posting.google.com>
	<tyfbre62jgk.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <4b39d922.0411101037.130adab0@posting.google.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote in message news:<tyfbre62jgk.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch>...
> OK, how about this:
> 
>   C is faster than Java, and Python is just a wrapper around C, ergo
>   Python is faster than Java for all things.
> 
> :-) x 10


Works for me.   It should also be noted that Python is _way_ more
Pythonic than Java is.  :D


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Thu Nov 18 02:38:32 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:38:32 +0200
Subject: Need help with Serial port communication
In-Reply-To: <f52203d6.0411172255.2b0d917b@posting.google.com>
References: <f52203d6.0411172255.2b0d917b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041118073831.GB3492@zoran.com>

Hello shashi,

> I am trying to implement the following
> -> Capability to interact with server during boot via serial port
> -> Cause server to crash (TOC) on command.
Google for "pyserial".

HTH.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at zoran.com>
http://tebeka.spymac.net
The only difference between children and adults is the price of the toys


From drew at gremlinhosting.com  Fri Nov 19 10:14:22 2004
From: drew at gremlinhosting.com (Andrew James)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:14:22 +0000
Subject: activating history in Python 2.3.4
In-Reply-To: <cnkpoa$25vq0$1@claire.desy.de>
References: <cnkd0b$25i72$1@claire.desy.de>
	<mailman.6583.1100857306.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cnkpoa$25vq0$1@claire.desy.de>
Message-ID: <1100877262.32379.5.camel@odin>

Gerhard,
I wonder if it's your terminal that is causing the problems? If you're
using xterm, try switching to aterm, konsole or gnome-terminal and see
if the behaviour is the same.

Andrew

On Fri, 2004-11-19 at 13:41 +0100, Riko Wichmann wrote:
> Gerhard Haering wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 19, 2004 at 10:03:47AM +0100, Riko Wichmann wrote:
> > 
> >>[Python compiled from source does not have readline support]
> > 
> > 
> > Make sure that the readline development headers and libraries are
> > installed on your system.
> > 
> > On Debian Linux, for example they're called libreadline4-dev. On
> > RPM-based Linux distributions, they're called libreadline-devel or
> > similarly.
> 
> well I installed readline5.0 from source, so all necessay headers are 
> there. but still, no module named readline ....
> 
> I configure python explicitly with --with-readline and everything seems 
> to be fine. I find in the config.log:
> 
> ac_cv_lib_readline_rl_completion_matches=yes
> ac_cv_lib_readline_rl_pre_input_hook=yes
> 
> and no other complains in connection with readline. However, looking in 
> the lib/python2.3/lib-dynload after make, make install, there is only a 
> readline_failed.so and an xreadlines.so ... ??
> 
> Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 	Riko
-- 
Andrew James <drew at gremlinhosting.com>



From hunterp at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 01:08:54 2004
From: hunterp at gmail.com (Hunter  Peress)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 22:08:54 -0800
Subject: global event listeners
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6463.1100656114.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <1100638869.786109.237720@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.6463.1100656114.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1100671734.647623.206540@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

i suppose i could do this, and have an "if self.__name__ ==
what_im_looking_for and type(self) == what_im_also_looking_for"

next is how can i make every object in a given runtime inherit from
this class



From square690410 at yahoo.com.tw  Thu Nov  4 02:24:31 2004
From: square690410 at yahoo.com.tw (Leon)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 15:24:31 +0800
Subject: How to use sys.stdout
Message-ID: <cmclfi$cgm$1@netnews.hinet.net>

what does it have properties ?
what does it have method ?
how to use they ? or where can find any information

please help me 




From dripton at ripton.net  Wed Nov 17 23:24:01 2004
From: dripton at ripton.net (David Ripton)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 20:24:01 -0800
Subject: Python 2.2 on Red Hat
References: <BDC02405.3068%oct@redcatmedia.net>
	<9b6f95cb.0411170639.6e5c45fc@posting.google.com>
	<3016rjF2pvp6kU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <9b6f95cb.0411172024.688d1829@posting.google.com>

"Russell Blau" <russblau at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3016rjF2pvp6kU1 at uni-berlin.de>...
> "David Ripton" <dripton at ripton.net> wrote in message
> news:9b6f95cb.0411170639.6e5c45fc at posting.google.com...
> > Andy Jacobs <oct at redcatmedia.net> wrote in message
> news:<BDC02405.3068%oct at redcatmedia.net>...
> 
> > So you need to put a newer Python somewhere else.
> >
> > My advice is to install modern Python (like 2.3.4), from source (it's
> > easy: standard ./configure; make; su; make install), under /usr/local.
> 
> No, you need to "make altinstall", not "make install", to prevent having
> python2.3 overwrite the system's built-in python symlink.

No.  "make altinstall" is only needed if you want to put two versions
of Python in the same basedir.  I suggested leaving /usr alone and
installing the new local Python in /usr/local.  When you do that
there's no namespace clash, so no need to use altinstall.

Yes, if you want to put two Pythons in the same basedir, then
altinstall is handy.  But not as bulletproof as using separate
basedirs.  Try installing debug and non-debug builds of the same
Python version in the same basedir using altinstall to see what I
mean.

Robustness aside, letting the package manager handle /usr and putting
your local changes in /usr/local is The Right Thing To Do.  RPM can't
scribble over changes not in its turf.  The Filesystem Hierarchy
Standard is fundamentally sane.


From urner at alumni.princeton.edu  Thu Nov  4 18:07:35 2004
From: urner at alumni.princeton.edu (Kirby Urner)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 15:07:35 -0800
Subject: Storing objects in dictionary
References: <8C53AAFA2050EE40BDCDB9455DA7D6340C6266@sw720ex020.visa.com>
	<mailman.5929.1099598917.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ofdlo09iilph9bl8opni2ve2po34fuej4j@4ax.com>

Jeremy Jones <zanesdad at bellsouth.net> wrote:

>Are you trying to use the session object as a key in the dictionary or a 
>value of a key?  What error are you getting?  You should be able to put 
>anything into a dictionary (AFAIK) as a key, but only hashable objects 
                                         ^^^
                                        value
>can be put in as keys.
>
>
>Jeremy Jones

I know you know what you meant.  Just correcting for posterity. -- Kirby



From nicogrubert at arcor.de  Mon Nov 22 04:06:24 2004
From: nicogrubert at arcor.de (nicogrubert at arcor.de)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:06:24 +0100 (CET)
Subject: readlines() with large file raises: IOError: [Errno 12] Cannot
	allocate memory
Message-ID: <10500383.1101114384879.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail-01.arcor-online.net>

Hi there
 
I am trying to read the content of a really large text file (1GByte) and I get
the following exception if I try to call readlines() on the opened textfile:

    IOError: [Errno 12] Cannot allocate memory


This is my code:
INFILE="/home/myuser/myfile"
open_infile = open( INFILE, 'r' )
lines = open_infile.readlines()


Any idea whats going on there?
Does pyhon tries to put the content into machine's RAM (512 MB) which is not big enough so an
exception is raised?

Thanks in advance,
Nico

Arcor-DSL: die echte Flatrate f?r alle Bandbreiten. Jetzt ohne Einrichtungspreis
einsteigen oder wechseln. Arcor-DSL ist in vielen Anschlussgebieten verf?gbar.
http://www.arcor.de/home/redir.php/emf-dsl-1



From deets.nospaaam at web.de  Tue Nov  2 07:29:44 2004
From: deets.nospaaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:29:44 +0100
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>

>>  It seems that you mistake strong/weak typing with static/dynamic typing
>>  - a
> 
> sorry, i don't think so.

I still do - as your other post regarding dynamic aspects of printf makes me
think so. 

Dynamic typing means that at runtime, type-information is associated with 
data and used e.g. to determine what implementation for certain operations
is to be taking. Static typing means that type information is used during
compiletime. Python is purely dynamic, java has both aspects and C++ is
mainly static - albeit rtti (and virtual methods somehow) are dynamic. So
one could say its mixed.

Strong/weak typing is about how much you care of types at all - in php, its
perfectly legal to add strings to numbers - the string simply gets
converted to a number beforehand, that conversion yielding 0 when there is
nothing useful and numberlike can be extracted from the string. So typing
is weak, as it doesn't constrain the possible operations on variables with
certain values.


> haven't tried that yet, but i guess it would at least evoke a warning in
> ANSI C++.

No, as others pointed out its a legal pointer operation

> i am just trying to come up with the best possible definition of "weak and
> strong typing" ( "best" in the sense of completeness and objectiveness).
> I've read up quite a bit about strong/weak typing, and static and dynamic
> typing, and it seems to me that, while static/dynamic typing is a pretty
> well-defined concept, the definition of strong/weak typing is not so
> clear-cut.

That might be - but you put python and c++ in the same sentence as weak and
strong typing - and that looked as if you think of python beeing weakly
typed, which it is not.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov 22 09:32:34 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:32:34 -0500
Subject: Trouble with psyco
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6692.1101125167.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6692.1101125167.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <RNmod.1924$QR.668@lakeread01>

Dick Moores wrote:

> psyco is acting a bit psycho for me.
> 
> Please see my spinForWeb.py at <http://www.rcblue.com/Python/spinForWeb.py>
> 
> When psyco is in use, entering an integer somewhere between 2000 and 
> 2500 causes my computer to freeze. Not really freeze but the program 
> doesn't finish, and I have to quit with a ^Q.
> 
> psyco is really impressive, but I'm disappointed that I can't 
> demonstrate (to friends) counting with it to numbers above 2 billion.
> 
"My car is really great when I use ethanol as the fuel, but I'm 
disappoointed it won't go at 1,000 miles an hour".

> If I remark out the "psyco.bind(spin)" line, there's no problem no 
> matter what integer I enter. Can someone explain what the problem with 
> psyco is?
> 
[...]
One other comment - I'll bet the only reason you don't notice the same 
problem without psyco is that you never took the time to try to count 
large ranges! I can guarantee you'll see the same performance break.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From eurleif at ecritters.biz  Tue Nov 30 17:26:45 2004
From: eurleif at ecritters.biz (Leif K-Brooks)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:26:45 -0500
Subject: Protecting Python source
In-Reply-To: <41ab74f4$0$85031$a1866201@visi.com>
References: <f4a45085.0411260701.5859bf43@posting.google.com>
	<lnSpd.18976$Km6.232360@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<coesrc$24i$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<mailman.6877.1101742321.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cofrqd$1d5$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<41ab74f4$0$85031$a1866201@visi.com>
Message-ID: <314aagF36m86iU1@individual.net>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2004-11-29, Peter Maas <peter at somewhere.com> wrote:
> 
>>If the "reverse engineering" argument boils down to "protecting source
>>doesn't make sense" then why does Microsoft try so hard to  protect
>>its sources?
> 
> To avoid embarassment.

+1 QOTW (Everyone else was doing it, I just wanted to be popular!)


From mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu  Tue Nov  9 10:06:20 2004
From: mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu (Mark Jackson)
Date: 9 Nov 2004 15:06:20 GMT
Subject: Learning curve - was: Re: Tutorials on Windows GUI programming
	with
References: <oP_jd.6307$Km6.159982@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<mailman.6158.1100012138.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmqmdc$rnk$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>

Gerhard Haering <gh at ghaering.de> writes:
> 
> --cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Disposition: inline
> 
> On Tue, Nov 09, 2004 at 08:47:08AM -0600, Larry Bates wrote:
> > [...] the learning curve > is pretty steep.
> 
> Anybody care to explain the term "learning curve" to me?
> 
> I'd assume that you have time on the x-axis, and knowledge on the
> y-axis. So a steep curve would mean that you know much in short time.

One would think so, but. . .

> But that doesn't seem to be how the terms steep/flat learning curve is
> used :-S

Evidently it's

          |
          |
          |
          |
Effort    |
Required  |
          |
          |
          |___________________
                Capability

-- 
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
	Learning without thinking is useless.  Thinking without
	learning is dangerous.		- Confucius




From autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Nov 29 08:00:36 2004
From: autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Robson)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:00:36 +0000
Subject: wxStyledTextCtrl problem ?
References: <pan.2004.11.28.12.10.30.74527@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<mailman.6870.1101714698.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.29.13.00.36.56836@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 23:43:32 -0800, Josiah Carlson wrote:

> I don't know why the problem you are having happens, but I would just
> make a call to self.Editor.SetFocus() on an EVT_ACTIVATE event.

Tried that, it doesn't work :(

Or to be precise, it works every other time :)



From mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net  Thu Nov 11 12:40:19 2004
From: mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net (Jean Brouwers)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 17:40:19 GMT
Subject: pickle: huge memory consumption *during* pickling
References: <cn00o5$r0j$1@fuerst.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
Message-ID: <111120040941123111%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>


FWIIW, we pickle data extracted from large log files.  The number of
pickled objects is about 1500, the size of the pickle file is 55+MB and
it takes about 3 mins to generate that file**.

This is cPickle, using protocol 2 (!) and all strings to be pickled are
intern'ed when initially created.

/Jean Brouwers
  ProphICy Semiconductor, Inc.

**) On a dual 2.4 GHz Xeon machine with 2 GB of memory running RedHat
Linux 8.0.



In article <cn00o5$r0j$1 at fuerst.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>, Hans Georg
Krauthaeuser <hgk at et.uni-magdeburg.de> wrote:

> Dear all,
> 
> I have a long running application (electromagnetic compatibility 
> measurements in mode-stirred chambers over GPIB) that use pickle 
> (cPickle) to autosave a class instance with all the measured data from 
> time to time.
> 
> At the beginning, pickling is quite fast but when the data becomes more 
> and more pickling slows down rapidly.
> 
> Today morning we reached the situation that it took 6 hours to pickle 
> the class instance. The pickle file was than approx. 92 MB (this is ok). 
> During pickling the memory consuption of the python proccess was up to 
> 450 MB (512 MB RAM -> machine was swapping all the time).
> 
> My class use data types taken from a c++ class via swig. Don't know if 
> that is important...
> 
> My feeling is that I'm doing something wrong. But my python knowlegde is 
> not so deep to see what that is.
> 
> Is there an other way to perform an autosave of an class instance? Shelve?
> 
> System: python 2.3.4, Win XP, 1.X GHz class PC, 512 MB ram
> 
> Best redards
> Hans Georg


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Nov 22 08:06:04 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:06:04 -0500
Subject: Identifying exceptions that can be raised
In-Reply-To: <roy-E384F5.07475422112004@reader1.panix.com>
References: <cVdnd.7986$tS4.4873@trndny09>
	<mailman.6579.1100837821.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<6Rknd.6671$%M4.4203@trndny08>
	<cnmcek$rju$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<JQNnd.2125$hJ6.1416@trndny01>
	<cnrli6$j1o$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<roy-E384F5.07475422112004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <cnso32$k1f$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Roy Smith wrote:
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> What you are describing is essentially black-box testing.  It may be a 
> valid procedure for QA purposes, but it's hardly a reasonable way to 
> write a program.  

You provide nothing to back up this claim.

 > Actually, it's worse than black-box testing.

Nor this, of course.

> Black-box testing says you should design your tests based only on the 
> documentation (functional spec, whatever) without looking at the source 
> code.  You're saying you should write the code without even looking at 
> the documentation.

Did I say that somewhere?  I really don't think you can
find anything in what I said that equates to me recommending
that one should write code this way in the general case.

> ---------
> close()
>  Close the file. A closed file cannot be read or written any more.  Any 
> operation which requires that the file be open will raise a  ValueError 
> after the file has been closed. Calling  close() more than once is 
> allowed.
> ---------

In other words, the documentation in this case happens to align
with the actual behaviour of file objects.

Now I ask you, how often does documentation either not mention
the fact at all (which was the topic of this thread until now),
or -- perhaps less common with standard library code, but widespread
with other code -- mention things that are inaccurate and wrong?

And how often does the code actually behave the way the code
behaves?

In other words, which should one trust more, the documentation
or the actual observed behaviour?

> Computer Science is not an experimental science.  

Again, you've said nothing that in any way justifies this statement.

I'm not saying CS _is_ an experimental science, but I think
I would say that your implied statement that one should *never*
do this is fundamentally flawed.

Ultimately, however, this is a silly argument, because neither
you nor I write code solely in the manner I described, nor
in the manner you appear to be recommending (i.e. going exclusively
based on the documentation), so I'm not even sure why you
wrote...

As a final note, I'll point out that I was writing code for
a mock file system, and if you think doing that solely based
on the documentation is a good idea, I heartily recommend you
give it a go and see how useful your results actually are...

-Peter


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov 18 22:46:07 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 03:46:07 GMT
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
	number of output arguments)
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<4b39d922.0411181005.62ca5d67@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6560.1100801855.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <419d6b89.428972810@news.oz.net>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:14:54 +0300, "Denis S. Otkidach" <ods at strana.ru> wrote:

>On 18 Nov 2004 10:05:23 -0800
>finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse) wrote:
>
>> Not quite the syntax you want, but better imho since it doesn't
>> involve name redundancy:
>> 
>> locals().update( {'a': 1, 'b': 2, 'c': 3} )
>
>Are you sure it will work with locals?

I think he was alluding to proposed functionality, not as it
currently works. I thought it might be possible to have a locals()-like
proxy that would update _existing_ locals, so that your second example
would work.

>
>>>> def f(d):
>...     locals().update(d)
>...     print a
>... 
>>>> f({'a': 1})
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>  File "<stdin>", line 3, in f
>NameError: global name 'a' is not defined
>
>Or even:
>
>>>> def f(d):
>...     a = 1
>...     locals().update(d)
         locals_proxy().update(d) # rebind existing local names matching keys in d
>...     print a
>... 
>>>> f({'a': 2})
>1
>
>-- 
>Denis S. Otkidach
>http://www.python.ru/      [ru]

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 12 12:44:33 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:44:33 -0700
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<slrncp8tqi.c7p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <cn2srl$je6$1@sea.gmane.org>

Antoon Pardon wrote:

> Op 2004-11-09, Antoon Pardon schreef <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be>:
>> I have had a look at the signal module and the example
>> and came to the conclusion that the example wont work
>> if you try to do this in a thread.
>>
>> So is there a chance similar code will work in a thread?
> 
> 
> Well I guess that the lack of response means the anser is:
> 
>   Not likely.

Sorry that I don't have time to go through the code you mention, but recently
for ipython I had to deal with signal handling in threads.  You can look in
IPython's Shell.py for the hacks I ended up using, if you care.

The gist of it is this function, which gets installed into a gtk/WX timer:

    def runcode(self):
        """Execute a code object.

        Multithreaded wrapper around IPython's runcode()."""

        # lock thread-protected stuff
        self.ready.acquire()

        # Install sigint handler
        signal.signal(signal.SIGINT, sigint_handler)

        if self._kill:
            print >>Term.cout, 'Closing threads...',
            Term.cout.flush()
            for tokill in self.on_kill:
                tokill()
            print >>Term.cout, 'Done.'

        # Run pending code by calling parent class
        if self.code_to_run is not None:
            self.ready.notify()
            self.parent_runcode(self.code_to_run)
            # Flush out code object which has been run
            self.code_to_run = None

        # We're done with thread-protected variables
        self.ready.release()
        # This MUST return true for gtk threading to work
        return True

As you see, I ended up installing the handler on *every* invocation of the
function, after taking a lock.  I couldn't find how to assign the handler to
the thread, so this was my brute-force approach.

This is incredibly ugly, and there may be a better solution.  But in this
particular case, the hack works and the penalty is not noticeable to end users.

Best,

f



From leknarf at pacbell.net  Mon Nov 29 12:37:44 2004
From: leknarf at pacbell.net (Scott Frankel)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 09:37:44 -0800
Subject: knowing a file's own name
Message-ID: <60C61E64-422D-11D9-9AA0-000A95A7B782@pacbell.net>


I'm looking for a way to identify a filename remotely.  Put differently,
is there a way a file can get its own name from its globals()?

doit.py calls exec() on a second py script, tpairs.py, to obtain a dict 
of the
globals in tpairs.py.  How can I add the filename, "tpairs.py," to the 
resulting dict?
i.e.:

# - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
# -- tpairs.py
# - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
this  = "this"
that  = "that"
gdict = globals()

# - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
# -- doit.py
# - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
#!/usr/bin/env python

theFile = "./tpairs.py"
theDict = {}
execfile(theFile, theDict)

# somehow add theFile to gdict, i.e.:
# gdict['theFile'] = theFile


Thanks in advance!
Scott



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Nov 30 10:19:23 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:19:23 -0500
Subject: pyserial with binary data
In-Reply-To: <527b6fe9.0411300231.22f35cfe@posting.google.com>
References: <23ae7099.0411260218.7ff9119c@posting.google.com>
	<527b6fe9.0411300231.22f35cfe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <coi30r$1fd$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Guillaume Weymeskirch wrote:
> I've got the same problem. Errno 11 is because too much data, sending
> is in progress.
> 
> Fix is easy: assign a non zero value to the writeTimeout property of
> your serial objet.
> Then the write method will wait up to this time for sending data.

Note that writeTimeout is new in PySerial v2.1, released 2004 July 28.

-Peter


From niels_bohr at uol.com.br  Wed Nov 10 20:42:04 2004
From: niels_bohr at uol.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio?= Mendes)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 23:42:04 -0200
Subject: tkinter gnuplot
In-Reply-To: <cmu4re$fvd$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
References: <mailman.6245.1100124544.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmu4re$fvd$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <1100137324.13730.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Em Qua, 2004-11-10 ?s 15:31 -0700, Fernando Perez escreveu:
> Rama Calaga wrote:
> 
> > Hi, I use both python and gnuplot a lot, but I am
> > unable to find a way to embed gnuplot "window/canvas" into tkinter. BLT
> > option in PMW is not so powerful and not so great, any suggestions ??
> 
> I don't think there's an easy way to do that, since all access to gnuplot from
> python is via a pipe. Gnuplot is an external program, not a library.  You
> might be able to make gnunplot generate .pngs and then load those into a tk
> canvas, but it will be clumsy.
> 
> You might want to look at http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net.  It's a true
> python plotting library (as opposed to a pipe to an external program), set up
> from the get-go for GUI embedding (with Tk, GTK and WX examples included).
> 
> Best,
> 
Or even scipy. It's a great scientific library and I think it uses
gnuplot as one of the graphical frontends (http://scipy.org) . I'm not
sure if it allows you to pass arbitrary gnuplot commands, but if you
want to build such a thing, surely the source could be helpful.

Cheers,
Fabio


From 1cdq3arii001 at sneakemail.com  Sun Nov 21 10:18:57 2004
From: 1cdq3arii001 at sneakemail.com (Tomas)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:18:57 +0100
Subject: Python23.dll functions
References: <4ba66934.0411210707.4db94d61@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cnqbl8$1bvg$1@news.uit.no>

"Leska" <for_leska at mail15.com> wrote in message 
news:4ba66934.0411210707.4db94d61 at posting.google.com...
> Where I can found list of functions, is exported in Python23.dll

You can for example use pexport, 
http://sebsauvage.net/python/pexports-0.42h.zip.

-Tomas 




From guy at NOSPAM.r-e-d.co.nz  Fri Nov 26 04:59:20 2004
From: guy at NOSPAM.r-e-d.co.nz (Guy Robinson)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 22:59:20 +1300
Subject: Does anyone know of a Python WebDAV library?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6795.1101411128.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6795.1101411128.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <co6upe$k94$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

Tou could strip out the twisted stuff, or just use twisted with this:

http://akadav.sourceforge.net/

HTH,

Guy

Andrew James wrote:
> All,
> I've been trying to find a generic WebDAV library (possibly with the
> extra versioning extensions) in Python for a project I'm developing with
> mod_python. Ideally, I'm looking for one which which wraps around the
> XML and lets you instantiate classes for each request, like:
> 
>  req = PropFindRequest(myRequestText)
>  resp = PropFindResponse(files)
> 
> I've found two possibilities so far: 
> 
> http://comlounge.net/webdav/ - DAVServer
> 
> and
> 
> http://sandbox.xerox.com/webdav/ - Python WebDAV Server
> 
> Neither of these projects provides the sort of interface that I'm
> looking for, and neither seems to be currently maintained. I'd rather
> not roll my own library if I can avoid it - can anyone point me in the
> direction of some existing work or (preferably) a current project?
> 
> I will buy the owner of the winning response a drink should he/she ever
> come to London...
> 
> Many thanks.
> Andrew
> 


From and-google at doxdesk.com  Wed Nov 17 08:47:05 2004
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 05:47:05 -0800
Subject: cgi.FieldStorage() is slow
References: <mailman.6402.1100584911.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0411170547.2c68392@posting.google.com>

Nehal <nehalmistry at gmx.net> wrote:

> when uploading small files, you won't notice a difference, but if
> you upload files larger than 2 megs, you can notice it.

Yep. Large file upload in cgi.py is slow. I don't immediately see a
way to speed it up without re-architecting some of its internals.

In any case I dislike(*) the cgi module's interface too, so I rewrote
the lot:

  http://www.doxdesk.com/software/py/form.html

This isn't drop-in compatible, and is getting a bit crusty (I'm
expecting to rewrite most of it soon to be more objecty/threadable,
and support WSGI), but in my experience it's considerably faster than
cgi for very large files. (We were commonly using files in the 10-50MB
range.)

(* - more then than now; cgi's interface has got slightly better since
Python 1.5.2's time.)

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/


From danperl at rogers.com  Fri Nov 26 15:20:10 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:20:10 -0500
Subject: dictionary initialization
References: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<lIydnVF-WvXK3TvcRVn-jA@rogers.com>
	<slrncqciv9.ip7.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<co5j9k$jgv$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<mailman.6817.1101490908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncqerc9.sic.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<opsh3pirx21js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
Message-ID: <ufmdneh24KVgEjrcRVn-pw@rogers.com>


"Caleb Hattingh" <caleb1 at telkomsa.net> wrote in message 
news:opsh3pirx21js0xs at news.telkomsa.net...
> Hi Weiguang
>
> I know how it is when discussion becomes religious, and I want to avoid 
> that.  First, I want to clarify exactly what it is that you are saying:
>
> Would I be correct in saying that your point is that with awk, you can 
> just do something like (ignore the syntax)
>
> (x not existing yet)
> x+=1
>
> And have x = 1, while in Python you have to do
>
> (x not existing yet)
> x=0
> x+=1
>
> And then have x=1?   Is this the question of debate here?  One line of 
> initialisation to specify the type?
>
> IF this is the point you are making, and the awk functionality demostrated 
> in this particular example is a really significant feature for you in your 
> specific problem domain, then I must concede that awk is probably right 
> for you, and you shouldn't waste your time with Python.

And just like that, the discussion turned religious.  It's hard to assess 
someone's tone when it comes in writing, but, Caleb, you sound sarcastic and 
belligerent to me.

Yes, 2 lines instead of 1 is an issue.  And it is not the only example where 
the "explicit is better than implicit" principle shows a downside.  However, 
addressing Weiguang's statements, I wouldn't say that python is less 
convenient than other languages (particularly awk, although I don't know 
that language), because I am sure we can find examples where python can 
implement something in a simpler way.

Dan

> Keep well
> Caleb 




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 18 02:56:30 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 08:56:30 +0100
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
	number of output arguments)
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6361.1100470915.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cn95k1$bfq$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6371.1100498345.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnb7hi.1hwbltbftm6c1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6392.1100556222.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbg4k.13z20mj1w1o0ysN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de> <419bbf2a.319309032@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <1gnf7n6.1spfeu41yhjcdaN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
   ...
> >Jeremy Bowers wrote:
> >> Generally, returning a tuple is either a sign that your return value
> >> should be wrapped up in a class, or the function is doing too much.
> >
> ISTM that a tuple _is_ a class that wraps content for return as a _single
> value_, just like a custom container class instance. What's the problem?
> The fact that you

None that I can see, no matter how many times Jeremy repeats
"generally".

> is very nice, if you ask me. There are lots of uses for
> small ordered sets of values where no explicit naming
> is required, any more than it is in a call to def foo(r,g,b): ...

Yes, I agree.

> IWT it would be acceptable to limit binding to existing bindings, so that
> frame structure would not have to be altered.

Looks right to me.

> Still, as Carlos pointed out, formal parameter names
> are private to a function,

? No they're not -- a caller knows them, in order to be able to call
with named argument syntax.

> I.e., if the dict has additional content, it is not an error

Agreed, by analogy with '%(foo)s %(bar)s' % somedict.

> Hm, do you want to go for a dict.get-like default value in that?

No, enriching dicts to support an optional default value (or default
value factory) looks like a separate fight to me.  As does syntax sugar,
IMHO.  If we can get the semantics in 2.5 with a PEP, then maybe sugar
can follow once the usefulness is established to GvR's contents.


Alex


From sw at wordtech-software.com  Wed Nov 10 05:28:11 2004
From: sw at wordtech-software.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 05:28:11 -0500
Subject: Help on installing PyQt on MacOSX 10.3 needed
In-Reply-To: <cmshkl$idu$1@athen03.muc.infineon.com>
References: <mailman.6138.1099992201.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2vcc6oF2i91ltU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<m_akd.996$yk5.922@fe37.usenetserver.com>
	<cmshkl$idu$1@athen03.muc.infineon.com>
Message-ID: <03mkd.1070$yk5.781@fe37.usenetserver.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Svenn Are Bjerkem wrote:

| Kevin Walzer wrote:
|
|> Svenn Are Bjerkem wrote:
|>
|> |
|> | you are perfectly right. I went back to the documentation and paid a
|> bit
|> | more attention and with your information in mind, I now see that it is
|> | talking about a selfcontained python with pyqt. I guess that I want to
|> | use the qt bindings *dynamically*. That means that I have to find a way
|> | to tell Python where to find the pyqt that I installed.
|> |
|> | In tcl I would either have installed into a directory in auto_path or I
|> | would have extended auto_path. How is this done in Python?
|> |
|>
|> PyQt is installed in the site-packages directory on OS X--there's
|> nothing special you need to do, it "just works" and loads up fine.
|
|
| Well, then I must have done something wrong since I get the error
| message that there is no module called qt available.
|
| On the command line of Python I did import sys and print sys.path to get
| the built-in search path. I checked the location where make install put
| the pyqt build vs the list of directories in sys.path and found that
| Python *should* be able to find pyqt. (There is a README file in that
| directory saying that this is the place to put third-party files, but I
| don't know if I have to do anything special in that sites.py which is
| mentioned in that README file)
|
| When I do import qt on the Python commandline, which file(s) in the
| third-party directory will be searched for first? If I knew that I could
| check if make install was successful generating all needed files.
|

How are you launching your program? Are you using pythonw instead of
Python? That's how to launch Python GUI programs on Mac OS X.

Do you have the MacPython add-ons installed? These make double-clicking
on Python apps the easiest way to launch them. See
http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython/.

Also, my installer package is now live. See
http://www.wordtech-software.com/pyqt-mac.html. It installs most stuff
directly, then you just need to run sudo make install in the directories
for PyQt and Sip. It's a straightforward build, nothing fancy, and works
fine for me. Perhaps you should give that a try and see if you find it
helpful.

When I try to assemble a standalone verison of a PyQt app (using py2app,
like py2exe but on the Mac, with the Qt libraries), I do have problems
seeing the PyQt path--I get some of the same error messages that you are
seeing. I haven't figured out how to debug those yet. However, when just
running the script, or doing an applet bundle
(http://www.wordtech-software.com/python-applet-tutorial.html), things
run fine. I've bundled up Eric3 (released with my PyQt distro) and Kodos
(just on my own box) this way, and they work fine.

- --
Kevin Walzer, PhD
WordTech Software--Open Source Applications and Packages for OS X
http://www.wordtech-software.com
http://www.smallbizmac.com
http://www.kevin-walzer.com
mailto:sw at wordtech-software.com
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iD8DBQFBke0tJmdQs+6YVcoRAqOUAJ4/Vzj77nud2hqbzzCv/sKZ1CuCPgCgi5b9
aV8JEbxCTR08WzIsHCCUg3c=
=j8KC
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From esj at harvee.org  Tue Nov  2 18:57:25 2004
From: esj at harvee.org (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 18:57:25 -0500
Subject: saved sys.path
In-Reply-To: <8vudnfRCkdgHExrcRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
References: <%Xmhd.29071$g4.544104@news2.nokia.com>	<1gmkht7.1e1lg86qerk5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.5765.1099319253.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8vudnfRCkdgHExrcRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <41881EE5.3090709@harvee.org>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Most questions relating to this which haven't already been answered
> by Alex can be answered by a perusal of the site.py source.  It
> makes good readin'...

I'm sure it does and I will spend some bedtime reading (after I finish 
"lost in translation", an extremely good book that only shares the title 
with a movie.  I also recommend tsil cafe.)

> Note that between PYTHONPATH and .pth files, possibly the addition
> of a little sitecustomize.py file (see again site.py), and the
> ability to modify sys.path in the __main__ module of the app as
> Alex suggests, you can do pretty much anything you think is a good
> thing to do.

obviously, I need to grok site.py more.  But as a basic philosophical 
basis, I really believe that configuration information should be 
externalized from the program as much as humanly possible.  So things 
like modifying sys.path in __main__ is a source of maintenance problems 
further down the road.  the way I've been able to encapsulate the 
changes in my demonstration code and separate configuration file treats 
for me an environment which is much more predictable and reliable.

Another example is what I've done with configuration files in the camram 
project.  I created a configuration file module which uses three files 
to build a single view of configuration data.  At the base is the 
distribution default configuration elements.  Overlaid on that is the 
site configuration file data and last overlaid is the user specific 
configuration file data.  End result is that one I upgrade the system, I 
never ever need to touch the configuration file unless I'm modifying a 
new default.

Another thing I did in order to keep myself from making lots of mistakes 
is that I prefaced every string in the configuration file with a type 
information and as a result when the configuration file variable is 
returned, is always returned in the right form.  In addition to the 
normal string, integer, floats, I've also created paths so that file 
names will be automatically converted to the right form for that host.

I guess this is a long-winded way of saying that I try to create 
environmental support to keep me from making mistakes in my code.  I 
forget things, I use speech recognition and have to deal with 
recognition errors in addition to thinking about code or writing.  It's 
a helluva lot of cognitive effort so if I can make my code and modules 
work for me and catch my mistakes automatically, then it's a win.

but I will take your advice to heart.  Thank you for giving it.

---eric



From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Wed Nov 10 13:37:13 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 10:37:13 -0800
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com> <2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<60dfb6f6.0411050715.601f381f@posting.google.com>
	<2v82u3F2dhtcpU1@uni-berlin.de> <cmoqn9$cbf$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<10p1ud2juqlkb7c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <60dfb6f6.0411101037.5cd6a17d@posting.google.com>

mike at hobbshouse.org (Michael Hobbs) wrote in message news:<10p1ud2juqlkb7c at corp.supernews.com>...
> JCM <joshway_without_spam at myway.com> wrote:
> > I think both liquids and gases are considered fluids.  Liquid Typing
> > and Gaseous Typing would be sub-categories.
> 
> I was thinking that "rigid" would be the antonym of "fluid".

You are correct, of course.  However, I don't like "rigid" as a term
to describe typing, for a simple reason: it's not specific enough.

Unlike solid, rigid can easily refer not only to substances, but also
to stances, or laws, or hierarchies, or guidelines, etc.  Rigid is
sometimes used as a synonym for strong (hopefully not by engineers). 
Because it has a very general meaning, "rigid typing" could be
construed as meaning a lot of different things.

OTOH, solid tends to refer specifically to substances.  It is the
metaphor to substances which, IMO, makes solid a good term for this
aspect of typing.  Solid substances don't deform under pressure;
likewise, solid typing systems to convert the types under pressure.

If someone hears the term "rigid typing", they could conceivably take
it to mean "static typing" or (my definition) "manifest typing".  But
if they hear "solid typing", then it's a stretch to take it to mean
"manifest typing" and a bigger stretch to take it to mean "static
typing".

On the opposite end, I think I actually would prefer "liquid" to
"fluid".  Fluid would be ok; unlike with rigid, there are no fluid
stances or fluid laws, although there are fluid guidelines.  Fluid
isn't as general in meaning as rigid is.  However, the word liquid
definitely stresses the metaphor with substances a lot better then the
word fluid does.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From mustafademirhan at gmail.com  Tue Nov  9 16:20:33 2004
From: mustafademirhan at gmail.com (Mustafa Demirhan)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:20:33 -0800
Subject: Embedding Python in a multi-threaded C++ application
In-Reply-To: <20041109202122.GC3878@unpythonic.net>
References: <560b81a404110910492229b9df@mail.gmail.com>
	<20041109202122.GC3878@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <560b81a4041109132015dcbc21@mail.gmail.com>

The problem is that I cannot access the thread that needs to be
terminated because that thread is the problematic one - it is doing
something intensive or it is hang up in some Python code. When I call
PyErr_SetInterrupt() from the main thread, nothing happens. All the
other threads continue working.

Is there any way that I stop one thread that is running a python code
from my main thread?  I am thinking of posting messages to the running
thread, but I dont think that running thread will ever process the
message before it finishes executing its python code.

Best wishes,
Mustafa Demirhan


On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:21:23 -0600, Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
> Perhaps you can use PyErr_SetInterrupt() to create a KeyboardInterrupt
> in the Python thread.
> 
>     void PyErr_SetInterrupt(    )
>         This function simulates the effect of a SIGINT signal arriving
>         -- the next time PyErr_CheckSignals() is called,
>         KeyboardInterrupt will be raised. It may be called without
>         holding the interpreter lock.
> 
> There's no way to "clean up" after Python if you terminate its
> thread---Python's datastructures could be in an inconsistent state, so
> just releasing a lock wouldn't do you any good.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Mustafa Demirhan


From mwm at mired.org  Thu Nov 11 15:34:12 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:34:12 -0600
Subject: Simple thread pools
References: <mailman.6134.1099960287.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4190CBE9.5050801@holdenweb.com>
	<mailman.6278.1100203412.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <x7mzxonn0b.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> writes:

> Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> All I'm saying is that you can get the same kinds of concurrency, same
> kinds of throughput, same kinds of elapsed times, etc., with an
> asynchronous approach and a single thread.  I suppose 'whatever floats 
> [our] boats' and 'whatever implementation presents itself in the most
> timely manner'.

Except that multi-threaded code is prone to obscure, hard-to-isolate
bugs. Having done both multi-threaded and async servers, I'll take the
async version every time.

      <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Sun Nov 14 21:17:40 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:17:40 -0500
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <L0Tld.2114$nj.1155@lakeread01>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<boKdncuh1ZBxbgrcRVn-gA@giganews.com>
	<L0Tld.2114$nj.1155@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <pM2dnc8i1JpejAXcRVn-uQ@giganews.com>

Steve Holden wrote:

> You managed to get it to run? I found the whole load opaque beyond 
> belief, and removed it after an hour's examination.

I had no problems whatsoever ... on the other hand I
been using Zope 2.7 for a more than a year so
that might have helped me.

In Zope X3 they make a big deal out of interfaces,
everything seems to revolve around that.

http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/Zope3Book/interfaces.html

then I looked at this,

http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/FrontPage/Zope3Book

totally overwhelming. But I have confidence in
the Zope developers. I have had good experience with Zope
in general, did not let me down yet ... in the way
a few years back for example Tomcat would crash
if one set a cookie value that had a newline character
in it.


Istvan.


From dieter at handshake.de  Sat Nov 20 14:04:51 2004
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: 20 Nov 2004 20:04:51 +0100
Subject: Design of a URL encoded language to specify sets of files on a
	WebDAV server
References: <mailman.6567.1100819446.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <x76540bauk.fsf@handshake.de>

Andrew James <drew at gremlinhosting.com> writes on Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:10:14 +0000:
> ...
> {BASE}/fs/photos/america/beach[type=jpeg,author='Andrew James']
> 
> This query is equivalent to searching for files which are in the
> photos,america and beach categories (the intersection), have a jpeg mime
> type and whose author is Andrew James.

Why are you using path syntax when in fact you mean intersection?

Note that genuine "path"s, too, have an idependent meaning in a WebDAV
repository.

> ...
> Reserved Operator Characters 
> 
> / 
> Boolean AND (categories only)
> ^ 
> Boolean OR (categories only)

There are more familiar symbols for "and" and "or"...

> ...
> - 
> Less than (criteria only)
> + 
> More than (criteria only)

"+" and "-" usually mean something different.

> = 
> Logical EQUALS (criteria only)

What does that mean?

You want a more general "EQUALS" relation (not only on boolean values).

> ~ 
> Logical CONTAINS (criteria only)

What does that mean?

> , 
> Boolean AND (criteria only)

Why are your "and" operators for categories and criteria different?

> This allows us to create much more complex queries, such as
> 
> {BASE}/fs/photos/~(america^france)

Above, I had the impression that criteria were enclosed in "[...]".
Seems not to be the case.


I stop here: I would not like your query language:

  It uses unfamiliar symbols for well known operators (rather
  than the standard ones).

  It uses different symbols for the same operator in different
  contexts.

  It appears to be defined via examples (and not formally).


From changli_to at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 26 12:53:16 2004
From: changli_to at hotmail.com (Chang LI)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 09:53:16 -0800
Subject: The use of :
References: <89cc6e1f.0411251858.40b6bbc7@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.26.08.33.40.219098@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <89cc6e1f.0411260953.4b6b98e7@posting.google.com>

Paul Robson <autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.11.26.08.33.40.219098 at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>...

> while i > 0 do
>   begin
> 	writeln i;
> 	i := i - 1;
>   end;
> 
> while i > 0:
> 	print i
> 	i = i - 1
> 

So the : is similar to "begin" and the last space line is similar to
"end", right? How about

while i > 0  :
      print i
      i = i-1


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 17 23:54:21 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 04:54:21 GMT
Subject: Named tuples
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>	<mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.6511.1100727971.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gnf6b7.nnqkns1c991f3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.6520.1100738474.5135.python-list@python.org>	<10pntj5m0spvl3f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.6521.1100740991.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<hcUmd.520265$mD.141102@attbi_s02>
Message-ID: <419c20da.344317031@news.oz.net>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 02:57:23 GMT, Bryan <belred1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
[...]
>it should be possible to avoid a recusive problem:
>
> >>> a = ('1', '2')
> >>> a.__names__ = ('ONE', 'TWO')
I guess you are working with a patched version of python?

 >>> a = ('1', '2')
 >>> a.__names__ = ('ONE', 'TWO')
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 TypeError: 'tuple' object has only read-only attributes (assign to .__names__)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From http  Sat Nov  6 23:16:16 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 06 Nov 2004 20:16:16 -0800
Subject: PEP new assert idiom
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xr7n62t0v.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Some time ago I found myself proposing a new "Validate" statement,
which would work exactly like "assert", except:

  1) it would throw a ValidationError instead of AssertionError
     if the condition failed

  2) it would NOT be turned into a no-op by the optimizing compiler.

The purpose is runtime validation of user data, rather than sanity
checking the program logic.  Example: I keep finding myself writing
code like:

    x = float(raw_input('Enter a positive number: '))
    assert x > 0, 'number wasn't positive'

This is incorrect because the assert statement is not guaranteed to be
executed.  I propose to say instead,

   validate x > 0, 'number wasn't positive'

which would do the right thing.

This proposal was reasonably well received when I've posted it before,
but I don't remember if there was any conclusion, and there was no
follow-up.  Since we're again talking about PEP's regarding the assert
statement, should I try to put one together for this, in my copious
(hah) free time?


From xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net  Mon Nov 15 11:52:37 2004
From: xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 16:52:37 GMT
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<boKdncuh1ZBxbgrcRVn-gA@giganews.com>
	<L0Tld.2114$nj.1155@lakeread01>
	<41985663$0$272$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<ZR1md.4916$nj.2331@lakeread01>
	<4198cc5f$0$258$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <Xns95A2B61481B73PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.72>

Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> said :

>>>> You managed to get it to run? I found the whole load opaque beyond 
>>>> belief, and removed it after an hour's examination.
>>>
>>> Where you on Windows or Linux?
>>>
>> Windows.
> 
> I thought so :-)
> I'm on Windows too, and Z3 the installer seems to be in a pretty sorrow 
> state there.
> I think it is pretty simple to get it running. But stuff like scripts 
> being called "mkzopeinstane" instead of "mkzopeinstane.py" and there 
> being references to folders that don't exists in the Windows install, so 
> you need to guess which ones to use instead.

Thanks for the sanity check ! I though I was being really dumb there :-)
I've installed a few early Zope versions under Solaris and Linux some years 
back, but had not used it since. When I saw X3 coming out with a Windows 
installer, I though they'd made it really easy for once and wanted a quick 
test run on my desktop. Ended up pretty nonplussed by all the stuff dumped 
under site-packages and no really obvious way to launch the damn thing :)

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From garth.grimm at hp.com  Mon Nov  1 10:43:54 2004
From: garth.grimm at hp.com (Grimm, Garth)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 07:43:54 -0800
Subject: DNS caching in python2.2
Message-ID: <FD66B7FFB9EAE94D810A81EFCF83F5C402306158@cacexc05.americas.cpqcorp.net>

Cached in the resolver library in python 2.2 (running on Windows2000).
Thought I'd toss the question to the list, to see what kind of quick
answer(s) I got.

I'll be contacting the developers of the server software that the script
runs in (they may have written a resolver cache, even if one doesn't
come with python 2.2).  And I think I can dream up a script to test it
on my own as well.

Thanks,
Garth

Garth Grimm
IMS Common Services (Search Program)
Technical Lead
search.hp.com
(650)857-7305 

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+garth.grimm=hp.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+garth.grimm=hp.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
Michael Fuhr
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 10:12 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: DNS caching in python2.2


"Grimm, Garth" <garth.grimm at hp.com> writes:

> If I write a script that makes successive HTTP requests, using newly 
> instantiated objects from urllib for each request, is there any reason

> to believe that the DNS resolution from the first call will be cached 
> and used for the second call?

Cached where?  The DNS server you're querying probably caches the
results, but the resolver library the program uses might or might not --
different systems behave differently.  You could use a packet sniffer to
find out how your system behaves.

-- 
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From batista.ric at iol.pt  Fri Nov  5 06:10:08 2004
From: batista.ric at iol.pt (Ricardo Batista)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:10:08 -0000
Subject: dijkstra algorithm by object oriented
In-Reply-To: <20041105002753.F82D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <LOEJJKEIICMBHEHNCGNEEEDKCBAA.batista.ric@iol.pt>

I already say that i just want an idea, 

i don't want that nobody do my work.

-----Mensagem original-----
De: python-list-bounces+batista.ric=iol.pt at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+batista.ric=iol.pt at python.org]Em nome de
Josiah Carlson
Enviada: sexta-feira, 5 de Novembro de 2004 8:30
Para: Alex Martelli; python-list at python.org
Assunto: Re: dijkstra algorithm by object oriented



aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:
> 
> Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
> 
> > "Ricardo Batista" <batista.ric at iol.pt> wrote:
> > > 
> > > But i need it for a homework.
> > 
> > We try not to do homework here.
> 
> Well, Ricardo's trying not to do homework there either, so there seems
> to be the basis for mutual understanding...


Tee hee.

Yeah, if I was told (for an assignment) object-orient this thing, I'd
probably go all out.  Nodes, edges, graph.


 - Josiah

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 02:07:37 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 07:07:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
References: <1gmfz0k.a3xefz1xzms61N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41852310.1271953001@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <loom.20041101T080058-388@post.gmane.org>

Bengt Richter <bokr <at> oz.net> writes:
>
> BTW, will anything that works in a list comprehension work in a generator 
> expression (assuming one does not depend on the generator expression having 
> leftover outside side effect bindings like the LC version)?

Well, I'm not confident enough to say *anything* (though I've used them freely
in my code since 2.4a1 was released and have never had any problems) but they
seem to work for this problem:

>>> def number_in_base(n, b=10, digits='0123456789ABCDEF'):
...     return '-'[:n<0]+''.join(reversed(list(
...         digits[r]                
...         for q in [abs(n)]
...         for q, r in iter(lambda: divmod(q, b), (0, 0))))) or digits[0]
... 
>>> number_in_base(100, 16)
'64'
>>> number_in_base(100, 2)
'1100100'

Of course, you don't really gain anything by doing this with a generator
expression since you have to reverse the list.

In Python 3000, the list(genexp) syntax will be exactly equivalent to a list
comprehension[1], at which point, it won't matter. ;)

Steve

[1] http://www.python.org/peps/pep-3000.html#core-language



From andreas.lobinger at netsurf.de  Fri Nov 19 08:51:26 2004
From: andreas.lobinger at netsurf.de (Andreas Lobinger)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:51:26 +0100
Subject: IPC10 Paper: PDF Editing and Processing?
Message-ID: <cnktov$5fa$1@news.mch.sbs.de>

Aloha,

i have (somehow, somewhere, sometimes...) a paper copy of this
article. As i have a project that was inspired by this paper, i
would like to put a reference to that in my documentation.

But i can't find the original (eletronic) reference?

Btw: 2002 there was a discussion on python-list if that
project is/was a real useable project. Are there any news about that?

Hoping for an


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Nov 17 20:13:45 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:13:45 -0800
Subject: Named tuples
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6520.1100738474.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>	<mailman.6392.1100556222.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gnbg4k.13z20mj1w1o0ysN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.6511.1100727971.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gnf6b7.nnqkns1c991f3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6520.1100738474.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10pntj5m0spvl3f@corp.supernews.com>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

>4. Named attribute access is supported by __getattr__. Names are
>looked up on the magic __names__ attribute of the tuple.
>
>5. On slicing, a named tuple should return another named tuple. This
>means that the __names__ tuple has to be sliced also.
>  
>

Hm.  If __names__ is a tuple, then does that tuple have a __names__ 
attribute as well?

(In practice, I can't imagine any reason why tuple.__names__.__names__ 
should ever be anything other than None, but the potential recursiveness 
makes me nervous...)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From goermezer at htp-tel.de  Thu Nov 18 08:23:34 2004
From: goermezer at htp-tel.de (goermezer at htp-tel.de)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:23:34 +0100
Subject: Access CATIA V5 with win32com (LONG)
Message-ID: <1100784214.419ca256548f8@webmail.htp-tel.de>

Hello,

I have some problems to automate a CAD (computer aided design) Software called
CATIA V5 from Dassault Systemes.

CATIA V5 has a builtin VB-Editor like Word, Excel, 
 and registers itself as a
COM-server. With VB one can automate everything in CATIA V5 with a lot of
registered Object Libraries.

A VB example:
..
      'Create a new product document object by adding a document with the
Product
      'type to the document collection of the CATIA application.
      Dim oProductDoc As Document
      Set oProductDoc = CATIA.Documents.Add("Product")

      'Retrieve the root product.
      Dim oRoot As Product
      Set oRoot = oProductDoc.Product

      'Retrieve the root product collection of products.
      Dim oRootCol As Products
      Set oRootCol = oRoot.Products
  ...

The problem is that CATIA V5 has not only one Object Library like Word or Excel
to get access for. Dassault splitted all functionalities of the CAD system
to separate Object Libraries. Therefore to automate this CAD-system with Python
I want to use the following Type Libraries in a script.

"CATIA V5 Interfaces Object Library" to get access to the core functionalities
of the CAD system (the Application):
Similar to "Dim mydoc as Document" in VB - but in Python

"CATIA V5 ProductStructureInterfaces ObjectLibrary" to get access to the parts
of an mechanical assembly:
Similar to "Dim my_product_document as Product" in VB - but in Python

This should use both TypeLibs:

import win32com.client
catapp = win32com.client.Dispatch("CATIA.Application") # Connects to CATIA V5
and uses CATIA V5 Interfaces Object Library
my_product_document = catapp.ActiveDocument.Product #".Product" makes the error
my_product_document.Count()

But the last 2 lines gives me the following error:
AttributeError: '<win32com.gen_py.CATIA V5 InfInterfaces Object Library.Document
instance at 0x19543064>' object has no attribute 'Products'

Yes OK, the attribute "Product" is from "CATIA V5 ProductStructureInterfaces
Object Library" (which has the CLSID {5065F8B6-61BB-11D1-9D85-0000F8759F82})
and not from "CATIA V5 Interfaces Object Library" ("CATIA.Application") which I
automatically use.

When I try to use the CLSID of "CATIA V5 ProductStructureInterfaces Object
Library" I get a Class not registered:

import win32com.client
catapp = win32com.client.Dispatch("CATIA.Application")  # Connects to CATIA V5
Interfaces Object Library
catprod = win32com.client.Dispatch("{5065F8B6-61BB-11D1-9D85-0000F8759F82}")#
Connects to CATIA V5 ProductStructureInterfaces Object Library

To get access to the wanted ProductDocument Object I get an error:
com_error: (-2147221164, 'Class not registered', None, None)

How can I register it ?

And how can I use both TypeLibs and can have access to the very important
Product-Object? The builtin VB editor makes everything
automatically...

best regards

Mustafa G?rmezer

------------------------------------
htp - Hannovers Telefon Partner GmbH
http://www.htp-tel.de


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 11:58:48 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:58:48 GMT
Subject: pre-PEP generic objects
In-Reply-To: <41ac67dd$0$25770$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
References: <a8Oqd.110119$V41.14593@attbi_s52>
	<41ac67dd$0$25770$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <cF1rd.490935$D%.481910@attbi_s51>

Nick Coghlan wrote:
> The proposed use cases sound more appropriate for a "named tuple" than 
> any sort of dictionary. (This may have been mentioned in previous 
> discussions. I wasn't keeping track of those, though)

For the return values, yeah, a "named tuple" is probably at least as 
appropriate.  I'm not sure a "named tuple" is necessary for the 
hierarchical data. (It wasn't for me in my DOM to Bunch example.)

I saw the "named tuple" thread slowly die, mainly because the most ideal 
solution:

     (name1:val1, name2:val2)

requires a change in Python's syntax, which is a tough route to go.

This PEP isn't attempting to solve the "named tuple" problem, though if 
that thread picks back up again and produces a solution that also solves 
the problems here, I'm more than willing to merge the two PEPs.

Note that I'm not trying to solve all the problems that a "named tuple" 
could solve -- just the problem of converting __getattr__ syntax to 
dotted-attribute syntax without the need to declare a class.

> Notice that I've used 'fromPairs' rather than 'fromMapping', since 
> consistent order matters for a tuple. Comparison semantics are inherited 
> directly from tuple, and don't care about names (they're only interested 
> in values).

frommapping was intended to handle the recursive (hierarchical data) 
case.  (Perhaps it needs a better name to clarify this...)  The shallow 
conversion was handled in the Bunch constructor.  I don't see that your 
named_tuple type handles the recursive case, does it?

> 
> Also, it seems like there has to be a better way to do the "opposite of 
> zip()" in fromPairs(), but I sure as hell can't think of it.

I think zip(*) is usually the inverse of zip():

.>>> zip(*sorted({'x':3, 'y':8}.items()))
.[('x', 'y'), (3, 8)]

Steve


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Nov 21 22:25:23 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 22:25:23 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6650.1100991642.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>	<mailman.6614.1100891946.5135.python-list@python.org>	<419E6C13.1040508@v.loewis.de>	<mailman.6634.1100915976.5135.python-list@python.org>	<419fc77d$0$198$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<mailman.6650.1100991642.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cnrm2b$l0s$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> I'm curious. I know that Python is not going to enter into a
> 'patent-filling' frenzy anytime soon. But isn't the 'is not' trick
> also patentable on it's own? The reason I ask this is twofold:
> 
> 1) I always found the "is not" with two tokens a novelty -- I knew no
> other language before where this spelling was acceptable. But I am no
> "linguist" (in the CS sense), either.

Novel or not, it still fails the "obvious" test, as the vast
majority of software patents do.

As proof by example, I point out that at one time early in
my Python learning, I had never seen a single example of
the negative form of the "is" operator, and had never in
fact needed one, yet when the time came for me to write
code which required the inversion, I just did what you
should almost always do with Python and tried the simplest
and most obvious thing: "is not".  Of course, it worked...

Doing it different might not have been obvious to a
parser writer, but to someone who speaks English it
is certainly the more obvious way to specify what was
desired here than the alternatives ("not is", "IsNot",
etc.).

Being the first to think of something doesn't make that
thought "non-obvious".  After all, for each really obvious
thing in the world, *someone* was the first to think of it!

And here is an appropriate place to quote from the Wikipedia
on the topic of patents:

   """The standard of obviousness and its application are more
subjective and controversial than that of novelty. If the requirements
are set very high, virtually nothing is patentable. Similarly if the
requirements are very low, all kinds of trivial inventions can receive
patents."""

Hmm... sounds like they have set the bar very, very low right now...

-Peter


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Nov  8 08:23:16 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 15:23:16 +0200
Subject: unicodedata . normalize (NFD - NFC) inconsistency
Message-ID: <6rouo0timlrp4ddhoh88a38ftpekms75va@4ax.com>

I found at least one case where decombining and recombining a unicode
character does not result in the same character (see at end).

I have no extensive knowledge about Unicode, yet I believe that this
must be a problem of the Unicode 3.2 specification and not Python's.
However, I haven't found out how the decomp_data (in unicodedata_db.h)
is built, and neither did I find much more info about the specifics of
Unicode 3.2.  I thought about posting here; anyone more knowing could
give it a look.

If we find out that it's a problem with Python, I'll open a bug report
(and volunteer work).

*** Example ***

>>> import unicodedata as ud
>>> def report(utext):
	for uchar in utext:
		print ord(uchar), ud.name(uchar)

		
>>> u1=u'\N{greek small letter alpha with oxia}'
>>> report(u1)
8049 GREEK SMALL LETTER ALPHA WITH OXIA
>>> u2=ud.normalize('NFD', u1)
>>> report(u2)
945 GREEK SMALL LETTER ALPHA
769 COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT
>>> u3=ud.normalize('NFC', u2)
>>> report(u3)
940 GREEK SMALL LETTER ALPHA WITH TONOS
>>> 

*** End of Example ***

I can understand this confusion; if, as I have found, there is no
COMBINING GREEK TONOS or COMBINING TONOS ACCENT in the Unicode table,
decombining, one has to use the 'oxeia' (acute) accent...
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
"Tssss!" --Brad Pitt as Achilles in unprecedented Ancient Greek


From max at alcyone.com  Thu Nov 25 23:15:37 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 20:15:37 -0800
Subject: The use of :
In-Reply-To: <89cc6e1f.0411251858.40b6bbc7@posting.google.com>
References: <89cc6e1f.0411251858.40b6bbc7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <z-Cdnco6Qcx0MDvcRVn-ug@speakeasy.net>

Chang LI wrote:

> Some statements use : in the tail such as while x > 0: and def func():
> What is the meaning and the usage of : in Python?

It means something else follows in an indented block as part of the same 
statement.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
   To perceive is to suffer.
   -- Aristotle


From teiffel at attglobal.net  Tue Nov 30 18:55:20 2004
From: teiffel at attglobal.net (Marcello Pietrobon)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 18:55:20 -0500
Subject: A way to wait Python event
In-Reply-To: <89cc6e1f.0411301357.6f306893@posting.google.com>
References: <89cc6e1f.0411301357.6f306893@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41AD0868.20007@attglobal.net>

Chang LI wrote:

>I tried to launch "python.exe test.py" in another program. After the
>launch the console was showed and exited on Windows. I want the
>console stay there. Is there a Python statement to wait an event loop
>like Tcl's "after forever"?
>  
>
If you need to keep a cmd window open maybe you can try this.
Unfortunately I don't have time  to screen which lines are exactly the 
ones you need.

I don't remember why it is like that.
For example I guess you can remove it the line realated to notepad

You'll figure out the best way to use it. But I suggest you to first 
look at the preexisting values of those keys.
So you can come back to the preexisting situation if you don't like it ( 
you'll see


Take the following lines and put them in .reg file. Then run it.
After that when you right click on a file you'll have the option to open 
it with Notepad or with a Command prompt that stays open.

Hope it helps.


Cheers,
Marcello


--------------------------------------------
REGEDIT4

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\*]

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\*\shell]

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\*\shell\dos_box]
@="DOS Box"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\*\shell\dos_box\command]
@="cmd"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\*\shell\open]
@="Notepad"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\*\shell\open\command]
@="Notepad.exe %1"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Folder\shell]

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Folder\shell\dos_box]
@="DOS Box"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Folder\shell\dos_box\command]
@="cmd /k cd %1"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\batfile\shell]

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\batfile\shell\runstayopen]
@="R&un - Stay open"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\batfile\shell\runstayopen\command]
@="cmd /k %1"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\comfile\shell]

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\comfile\shell\runstayopen]
@="R&un - Stay open"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\comfile\shell\runstayopen\command]
@="cmd /k %1"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\exefile\shell]

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\exefile\shell\runstayopen]
@="R&un - Stay open"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\exefile\shell\runstayopen\command]
@="cmd /k %1"

---------------------------





From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Mon Nov 22 09:17:07 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 06:17:07 -0800
Subject: Import problem
In-Reply-To: <cnseqa$g6s$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <cnseqa$g6s$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <41a207b1$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Achim Domma (Procoders) wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> in my __init__.py of module A.B if have something like:
> ....
> 
> import A.B
> if A.B.VERSION[0]==5:  <- Error
>     do_something()
> 
> I get the error:
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'B'

Do you have a file named "A.B.py"?  -- such names won't work.
If "A" is a package (directory), does it have a file "__init__.py"
and a file "B.py"?  If so, I don't have any more clues for you.

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Nov  4 00:12:35 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 00:12:35 -0500
Subject: pep 336:  Make None Callable
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <cmcdo3$d85$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw at comcast.com>,
The Eternal Squire  <eternalsquire at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>Title: Make None Callable

No, *no*, *NO*, and *HELL NO*.

OTOH, once the BDFL Pronounces, we can return to laughing and pointing
the next time this comes up.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)


From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Sun Nov  7 01:35:23 2004
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 06:35:23 GMT
Subject: PEP new assert idiom
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr7n62t0v.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Lmjjd.2124$Zl2.96@trndny01>


"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message
news:7xr7n62t0v.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> Some time ago I found myself proposing a new "Validate" statement,
> which would work exactly like "assert", except:
>
>   1) it would throw a ValidationError instead of AssertionError
>      if the condition failed
>
>   2) it would NOT be turned into a no-op by the optimizing compiler.
>
> The purpose is runtime validation of user data, rather than sanity
> checking the program logic.  Example: I keep finding myself writing
> code like:
>
>     x = float(raw_input('Enter a positive number: '))
>     assert x > 0, 'number wasn't positive'
>
> This is incorrect because the assert statement is not guaranteed to be
> executed.  I propose to say instead,
>
>    validate x > 0, 'number wasn't positive'
>
> which would do the right thing.

Why do you need a statement for this?
IMO, a plain function will do the trick:

def validate(expression, msg=None):
    if expression: return
    if msg is None:
        raise ValidationError
    else
        raise ValidationError(msg)


Raymond Hettinger




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  4 15:41:38 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 21:41:38 +0100
Subject: pep 336:  Make None Callable
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com> <cmcarp$5u7$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.5897.1099544898.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmq3sg.13vqunmdm9pcbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5928.1099598880.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gmqwsw.a5ixmah4l770N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
   ...
> I just noticed though, that:
> 
> noop = lambda *a, **kw: None
> 
> is illegal (apparently lambda doesn't support argument indirection (or
> whatever that "*" syntax is properly called)).  Never tried it before.

???  it's quite OK:

kallisti:~/cb/cha/oop/cba alex$ python2.3
Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) 
[GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> lambda *a, **k: None
<function <lambda> at 0x61430>

> Maybe there should be a noop built-in, though?

A Null object, whether built-in on in the stdlib, sounds better to me.
Calling is just one of N operations you may want to do on it, after all!
Indexing, slicing, and so forth -- why not cover those, too?


Alex


From mr_ravi_patil at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 17 01:43:41 2004
From: mr_ravi_patil at yahoo.com (SoftwareTester)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 22:43:41 -0800
Subject: win32 extentions--  installer not compatible with python 2.3
Message-ID: <5a050156.0411162243.7e7441ea@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I am using NT4 and  downloaded the following Windows installations:

1. Python-2.3.4
2. pywin32-203.win32-py2.2 Url:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pywin32/

I installed Python 2.3.4 succesfully.
But when I run the win32 extentions installer, it returns a failure
message "Python 2.2 required".

So does this mean that I cannot use win 32 extentions Python2.3?


From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Nov  1 13:47:58 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 19:47:58 +0100
Subject: LRU cache (and other things missing from the standard library ...)
Message-ID: <20041101184758.GA7167@mylene.ghaering.de>

I recently implemented a LRU cache. And I wondered why such a useful class is
not already in the standard library. The only thing I found was a cookbook
entry but the comments said it was problematic.

Btw. my implementation is currently at
http://initd.org/svn/initd/pysqlite/trunk/misc/lru.py Does anybody see any
problems with this code?

I've already started translating it into C (*) , which speeds it up by between
factor 5 to 8. Maybe a candidate for the standard library once it's finished?

-- Gerhard

(*) http://initd.org/svn/initd/pysqlite/trunk/src/cache.c is the first iteration.
-- 
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
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From philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net  Tue Nov 16 13:51:47 2004
From: philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:51:47 -0600
Subject: Should I learn Python?
Message-ID: <200411161251.47070.philippecmartin@sbcglobal.net>

I do not consider myself a great developper, yet I can code.

For the past 17 years I have coded in many languages (assembly, basic ; 
-(  Pascal, C, C++, ADA, ....) in many environment (regular os:Windows(all), 
Unix, Linus, DOS, OS/2... - embedded: pSOS+, vxWorks, VRTX32...).

I discovered python 5 months ago, fell in love within the first few days and:

-) can code many times faster than ever before (yet I doubt my neurons have 
reproduced)
-) I currently work on a fairly sophisticated commercial smart card project 
and have a prototype almost ready after 4 months and 6K lines of code. ==> it 
would have taken at least  me two years and 20K lines more to reach this 
using a "standard" high level language.


My advice is this:

1) learn it 'cause it's fun !
2) if performances do not involve most of your software/you do _not_ need 
deterministic/realtime behavior: use it because it's potentially the most 
productive software language/environment available on this side of the 
galaxy.
3) learn it 'cause it's fun !


Regards,

Philippe


From ods at strana.ru  Thu Nov 18 07:49:57 2004
From: ods at strana.ru (Denis S. Otkidach)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:49:57 +0300
Subject: regex-strategy for finding *similar* words?
In-Reply-To: <a06100502bdc23b182754@[80.139.60.165]>
References: <1100774319.18258.249.camel@bucket.localnet>
	<a06100502bdc23b182754@[80.139.60.165]>
Message-ID: <20041118154957.14495f8c.ods@strana.ru>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:20:08 +0100
Christoph Pingel <ch.pingel at web.de> wrote:

> an interesting problem for regex nerds.
> I've got a thesaurus of some hundred words and a moderately large 
> dataset of about 1 million words in some thousand small texts. Words 
> from the thesaurus appear at many places in my texts, but they are 
> often misspelled, just slightly different from the thesaurus.
> 
> Now I'm looking for the best strategy to match the appearence of my 
> thesaurus items in the texts. Do I have to build patterns from all my 
> thesaurus items for the expected misspellings, or is there a more 
> general approach possible? I tried to add '?.?' to each letter in a 
> thesaurus item, but this is much too weak (I get a lot of false 
> positives because this expression for example matches any possible 
> substring). Adding word boundries helps a little, but sometimes a 
> concept spans two words, and this could be spelled with a space char 
> *or* a dash. In this case, I'm back to matching almose everything. 
> Any ideas?
> BTW, efficiency is not absolutely required, it's not meant to work 
> for realtime requests.

Similar words can be determiner with difflib.SequenceMatcher.ratio()
method or by computing Levenshtein distance.  You have too many
combinations here to compare, so probably some filter (e.g. by word
length difference) will be required to proceed in reasonable time.

Certainly, you can generate regex for each word in thesaurus, but I
doubt it will run faster.

-- 
Denis S. Otkidach
http://www.python.ru/      [ru]


From mederis at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 11 09:46:45 2004
From: mederis at hotmail.com (Marc Ederis)
Date: 11 Nov 2004 06:46:45 -0800
Subject: sockets: How to know when your data is sent
References: <f00811ba.0411090653.5f6d1d29@posting.google.com>	<4190e27f$0$95596$a1866201@visi.com>
	<mailman.6214.1100100615.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f00811ba.0411110646.72a233ca@posting.google.com>

Richie Hindle <richie at entrian.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.6214.1100100615.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> If you want to ensure that all the data has been sent before *closing* the
> socket, which sounds like Marc's requirement, you can use
> setsockopt(SO_LINGER):
> 
>        SO_LINGER
>               Sets  or gets the SO_LINGER option. The argument is
>               a linger structure.
> 
>               struct linger {
>                   int   l_onoff;    /* linger active */
>                   int   l_linger;   /* how many seconds to linger for */
>               };
> 
>               When enabled, a close(2) or  shutdown(2)  will  not
>               return  until  all  queued  messages for the socket
>               have been successfully sent or the  linger  timeout
>               has been reached. Otherwise, the call returns imme?
>               diately and the closing is done in the  background.
>               When  the  socket  is closed as part of exit(2), it
>               always lingers in the background.
> 
> (from the GNU manpages).  I don't believe that's true for shutdown() on
> all platforms, but I do believe it's true for close() / closesocket().
> Calling it from Python is a bit of a chore involving the struct module,
> and is left as an exercise for the reader.  8-)

SO_LINGER... Interesting, I'll keep that in mind for the future. In
the end, acknowledging receipt of the data, as it was arriving at the
server, turned out to be the best solution for me. I wanted to be able
to show a progress bar (at the client) of the data being sent.

Thanks guys,
-Marc


From just at xs4all.nl  Wed Nov 10 04:14:48 2004
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:14:48 +0100
Subject: unicode string literals and "u" prefix
References: <ac3d3965.0411080600.3a5bce8d@posting.google.com>
	<418fed14$0$156$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<ac3d3965.0411090741.78c9dce4@posting.google.com>
	<4191c722$0$158$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<kxkkd.10213$O11.6559@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <just-86A6ED.10144810112004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <kxkkd.10213$O11.6559 at newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
 Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:

> Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> > If you really need a way of declaring all string literals as Unicode,
> > on a per-module basis, then
> > 
> > from __future__ import string_literals_are_unicode
> 
> Were it to be done, would that also introduce new syntax for
> generating a byte string?
> 
> Perhaps b"" as in
> 
>   s = b"\N{LATIN"
> 
> ?

IMO we should plan to move towards the following:

   - all string literals should become unicode
   - there should be a bytes() type for binary
     strings
   - there should be a way to use byte string
     literals. b"..." seems a good candidate.

I doubt this can be done without breaking stuff (although a __future__ 
directive may make it possible), so maybe this is a 3.0 project.

There already is a PEP for a bytes type:
  http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0296.html
..but it seems it's been dormant since 2002. Time to revive it?

Just


From peter at somewhere.com  Sat Nov 20 16:20:28 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 22:20:28 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <10pt5sfdr8hh52e@corp.supernews.com>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>	<cnlgv2$vc$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6616.1100893198.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3073pnF2rf1v9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<10pt5sfdr8hh52e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <309qrmF2im5d4U1@uni-berlin.de>

Jeff Shannon schrieb:
> Peter Maas wrote:
>> Isnot is semantically equivalent to the inequality operator which is
>> some hundred years old.
[...]
> Actually, looking at the patent claim, this is *not* semantically 
> equivalent to inequality.  It specifically mentions 'isNot' as something 
> that compares memory addresses, which in Basic are normally hidden.

Isnot is the inequality operator applied to memory addresses. That these
are hidden in VB, doesn't make this a new invention worth to be protected.
E.g. electrical power supplies are a pretty old thing. If somebody would
try to get a patent on the application of electrical power supplies to
TVs this would probably (hope so) rejected and so should the application
of the inequality operator to memory addresses.

> It's still a pretty questionable patent, though.  Even without anyone 
> explicitly having used 'is not' in Basic before, its prevalence in so 
> many other languages would seem to fail the "nonobvious" test 
> (supposedly) required for patent validity.

Could this patent be circumvented by writing "not (a is b)" instead
of "a is not b"? If that would be the case the patent claim would
be even more ridiculous.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 10 17:39:09 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:39:09 -0700
Subject: tkinter gnuplot
References: <mailman.6245.1100124544.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmu4re$fvd$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <cmu5ae$gc3$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Fernando Perez wrote:

> Rama Calaga wrote:
> 
>> Hi, I use both python and gnuplot a lot, but I am
>> unable to find a way to embed gnuplot "window/canvas" into tkinter. BLT
>> option in PMW is not so powerful and not so great, any suggestions ??
> 
> I don't think there's an easy way to do that, since all access to gnuplot
> from
> python is via a pipe. Gnuplot is an external program, not a library.  You
> might be able to make gnunplot generate .pngs and then load those into a tk
> canvas, but it will be clumsy.

Mmh, Gnuplot does have a tkcanvas terminal:

 This terminal driver generates Tk canvas widget commands based on Tcl/Tk
 (default) or Perl.  To use it, rebuild `gnuplot` (after uncommenting or
 inserting the appropriate line in "term.h"), then

  gnuplot> set term tkcanvas {perltk} {interactive}
  gnuplot> set output 'plot.file'

 After invoking "wish", execute the following sequence of Tcl/Tk commands:

  % source plot.file
  % canvas .c
  % pack .c
  % gnuplot .c

[...] See the gnuplot help for more.


So you might be able to rebuild gnuplot with this terminal, and then figure out
how to make the generated tcl/tk code accessible to tkinter.  I'm not a
tkinter expert, so I have no idea how this would work.

Still, matplotlib is ready for this out of the box, so it might be less work.

Best,

f


From not_my_address at terra.es  Fri Nov  5 02:17:40 2004
From: not_my_address at terra.es (darkhorse)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:17:40 +0100
Subject: CGIs and file exclusion
References: <2uvedvF2g1pv3U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<qnk1xf9b2cq.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <2v0nnsF2b4tleU1@uni-berlin.de>


"David M. Cooke" <cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca> escribi? en el mensaje
news:qnk1xf9b2cq.fsf at arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca...
[David wrotes about fcntl.lockf...]

Thank you all for your answers, seems a good solution  for what I'm doing.
I'll try it this afternoon.

Thanks again
DH




From exarkun at divmod.com  Sun Nov 14 16:51:57 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:51:57 GMT
Subject: Is a list an instance of a class?
In-Reply-To: <BDBD8396.2BA70%fgranger@fgranger.com>
Message-ID: <20041114215157.20649.1771636911.divmod.quotient.5268@ohm>

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:50:14 +0100, Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Granger <fgranger at fgranger.com> wrote:
>Le 14/11/04 21:33, =AB=A0Kent Johnson=A0=BB <kent3737 at yahoo.com> a =E9crit=A0:
> 
> > Is this still correct or was it made obsolete by Python 2.2? Lists and
> > files have __class__ attributes, at least:
> 
> As you disovered, this is obsolete. You even have some emulation you can
> built on :
> 
> Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11)
> [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import UserList
> >>> dir (UserList)
> ['UserList', '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__']
> 
> For me, this file resides in:

  UserList (UserDict, UserString) are also mostly obsolete:

    >>> class foo(list):
    ...     def __str__(self):
    ...             return 'foo list: ' + super(foo, self).__str__()
    ... 
    >>> print foo(range(3))
    foo list: [0, 1, 2]

  Jp


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Nov  5 09:34:15 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 09:34:15 -0500
Subject: py2exe sf.net hosed???
In-Reply-To: <418b3bf9$0$17580$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
References: <418b3bf9$0$17580$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <cmg2f9$e7$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Dave Sellars wrote:
> I cannot download py2exe from the sourceforge site, the download page 
> just keeps refreshing but the d/l never starts...
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/project/py2exe then choose 'Files' --tried with 
> firefox and IE (on windows), no cigar...
> 
> Anyone else having the same problem, or am I doing something *really* 
> dumb? ;-)

You may also be dumb ;-) but SourceForge is definitely pooched
right now...

-Peter


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Nov 24 14:57:59 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:57:59 +0100
Subject: executable from python cod
References: <77969915.0411241036.553c3da3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <co2p3s$inq$02$1@news.t-online.com>

> how you think - if needs small executable creating from python code?

Its hard to understand what you actually want - so I've got to resort to
more-or-less wild guessing:

You seem to ask about python standalone executables, preferrably compiled
and small in size. The answer is: No, that's not doable. There exist things
like pyexe, that attempt to create compact installers - only the neccessary
modules, and the core interpreter. Maybe that helps you?
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Nov 24 07:20:34 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 06:20:34 -0600
Subject: read(1) returns string of length 2
In-Reply-To: <xM_od.25928$jf.25666@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
References: <xM_od.25928$jf.25666@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
Message-ID: <16804.31890.839776.546516@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    wolfgang> I'm trying to read (japanese) chars from a file. While doing
    wolfgang> so I encounter that a char with length 2 is returned. Is this
    wolfgang> to be expected or is there something wrong?

I believe it's to be expected.  You opened the file with codecs.open(), so
your basic unit of operation will be a Unicode character, not a byte.

    wolfgang> My naive assumption was that f.read(1) returns always a char
    wolfgang> of length 1 (or zero).

If you simply used the builtin open() to open the file that would be true.

Skip



From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Sat Nov  6 21:32:09 2004
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 20:32:09 -0600
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <418D61D3.3040904@acm.org>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<mailman.5999.1099743679.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418D61D3.3040904@acm.org>
Message-ID: <200411062032.09616.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Saturday 06 November 2004 05:44 pm, Maurice LING wrote:
> There is a Chinese saying "waves do not happen without wind." If my 
> impression of Python and Java is flawed, I am seriously wondering where 
> it came from? Is it all due to benchmark data from years ago?

Not really. It's an impression you could easily get from several
books about Python (e.g. O'Reilly's "Learning Python"), which
make a rather big deal about Python being slow to execute, but
fast to develop in.

The reality is that it isn't really all *that* slow to execute,
and later versions have gotten quite a bit faster.

But it remains really fast to develop in. ;-)

The resistence to the idea really stems from a sense of rivalry
with Java.  Which is really interesting actually, because it
wasn't all that long ago that Python was "just a scripting
language" and Java programmers wouldn't feel threatened by it.
Now they do, I guess. ;-)

It's quite possible that Java programmers console themselves
for all the low-level programming work by thinking the result
will be faster, without really testing to find out.  Certainly
Java is going to be faster than Jython (Python running on a
Java platform).

And I have certainly written some extremely poorly optimized
Python programs that positively *crawled*.

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From greg at invalid.invalid  Wed Nov 10 21:53:00 2004
From: greg at invalid.invalid (Greg Krohn)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 02:53:00 GMT
Subject: Sorting email addresses by domain
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6250.1100138329.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6250.1100138329.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <guAkd.2$G36.0@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Peter Murray wrote:
[snip]
> Anyway, I have a list of email address and I want to sort them by domain.
> List.sort() wont work as this looks at the start of each address only. So
> the answer I have come up with is to split each email address around the
> "@", swap the position of the name and domain, build a new list with these
> and then sort this. Then switch positions back, and join with an "@". It
> works, but it seems a little inelegant. Is there a better, or easier way to
> do this?
[snip code]

Elegant or Perlish, you decide:

addresses.sort(lambda a, b: cmp(a[a.find('@'):].lower(),
                                 b[b.find('@'):].lower()))

Note that this isn't case sensitive and items without an '@' will be 
placed at the end.

greg



From levub137 at wi.rr.com  Sun Nov 28 12:54:45 2004
From: levub137 at wi.rr.com (Raymond L. Buvel)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 17:54:45 GMT
Subject: [ANN] rpncalc-1.0 RPN Calculator For Python
In-Reply-To: <cod15o$lo5$1@news.cc.tut.fi>
References: <mailman.6851.1101655836.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>
	<41a9fd4e$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net> <cod15o$lo5$1@news.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <Fhoqd.61310$ye4.32916@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>

Heikki Orsila wrote:
> Kent Johnson <kent3737 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>>The .tar.gz file seems to be corrupt, opening it with WinZip it 
>>uncompresses the .gz then I get "Error reading header after processing 0 
>>entries."
> 
> 
> Bug in winzip? tar xfz rpncalc-1.0.tar.gz works just fine. However, there's
> an invalid symlink inside the package:
> 
> $ tar tvfz rpncalc-1.0.tar.gz 
> ...
> lrwxrwxrwx rlb/rlb           0 2004-11-22 00:11:06 rpncalc-1.0/examples/poly.py -> /data/projects/poly/poly.py
> 
> $ md5sum rpncalc-1.0.tar.gz 
> 0b8eb872fb0937eca079489e184ddf9f  rpncalc-1.0.tar.gz
> 
> Is your packet valid? Check the md5sum.
> 
The problem with trying to be too clever is that you eventually get bit. 
  I tested this on my system which obviously has the target of the 
symlink. I will correct this problem and upload a new version.  This 
flaw does not affect the basic operation of the interpreter, you just 
can't use the polynomial example.


From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Sun Nov 28 13:43:02 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 19:43:02 +0100
Subject: The use of :
In-Reply-To: <41aa1abb$0$25542$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
References: <89cc6e1f.0411251858.40b6bbc7@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.26.08.33.40.219098@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<89cc6e1f.0411260953.4b6b98e7@posting.google.com>
	<zyUpd.6$d74.2@read3.inet.fi>
	<41aa1abb$0$25542$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <30ukhmF357ptdU1@uni-berlin.de>

bruno modulix wrote:

> <please-someone-correct-me-if-i-am-wrong>
> In fact, from a purely technical POV, the ':' could have been omitted 
> from the Python syntax, since indentation does the whole job of defining 
> blocks. It's only here for readability AFAIK.
> </please-someone-correct-me-if-i-am-wrong>

Without the ':', single-line suites are impossible. If you allow only
multi-line suites, you're right.

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Nov  1 06:21:56 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 12:21:56 +0100
Subject: DOM appendChild??
References: <mailman.5741.1099271446.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.01.11.21.56.125867@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:12:47 -0300 schrieb Juliano Freitas:

> I have to append in a xml file as a child another xml file. How can i
> get this?
> 
> i try parent.appendChild(document)
> 
> but doesnt work!!

Hi,

this is not possible. Try to add the root node (top level
tag).

 HTH,
   Thomas



From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Nov 10 02:45:41 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:45:41 +0100
Subject: unicode string literals and "u" prefix
In-Reply-To: <ac3d3965.0411090741.78c9dce4@posting.google.com>
References: <ac3d3965.0411080600.3a5bce8d@posting.google.com>
	<418fed14$0$156$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<ac3d3965.0411090741.78c9dce4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4191c722$0$158$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

nico wrote:
> I think you have the same problem when you write strings in german
> language.

I try to avoid putting non-English messages into source code (Python
or not). Instead, I often put English into source code, then use
gettext to fetch translations.

> Sometimes, I feel like an ethnical minority, when I see in a
> well-known book about Python that "Because Unicode is a relatively
> advanced and rarely used tool, we will omit further details in this
> introductory text."

I do use Unicode strings a lot in my Python applications. However,
I rarely use them in string literals. If I had to put accented/umlauted
characters into a Unicode literal, I had no problems putting u""
in front of the literal.

If you really need a way of declaring all string literals as Unicode,
on a per-module basis, then

from __future__ import string_literals_are_unicode

is an appropriate way of doing this. Of course, it does not work in
the current versions (including 2.4); it doesn't work because nobody
has contributed code to make it work.

So if you really need the feature, please implement it, and submit
the change to sf.net/projects/python. There is nothing wrong with
such a feature - just that nobody has implemented it.
This is how open source works.

Regards,
Martin


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Nov 19 22:57:06 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:57:06 -0600
Subject: Backporting Python 2.4 modules
Message-ID: <419EC092.2070304@colorstudy.com>

Wouldn't it be cool if someone took all the enhanced and new modules in 
Python 2.3 and 2.4, and backported them to Python 2.2?  Maybe all into a 
single distutil-installable package called, say, python24?  Then you 
could do:

from python24 import logging

Lots of the modules have been backported (logging and optparse, for 
instance), but there's no central place to find them.  And some modules 
work fine in older versions, but you wouldn't know.

Since most of the enhancements since Python 2.2 have been in the 
standard library, this would be really helpful.  Especially for those of 
us who want to support older versions of Python, but also want to take 
advantage of newer libraries.

Anyway, hopefully someone things this is a good idea as well and maybe 
tried to do it?  Maybe?  Please?

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  / http://blog.ianbicking.org


From anthonybaxter at gmail.com  Sun Nov  7 10:53:53 2004
From: anthonybaxter at gmail.com (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 02:53:53 +1100
Subject: ANN: New configuration module released
In-Reply-To: <cmbet0$d51$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840@posting.google.com>
	<cmbet0$d51$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <e69d3ed2041107075313fd567c@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:26:07 -0500, Neal D. Becker
<ndbecker2 at verizon.net> wrote:
> The boost c++ library (about to be released) has a new program_options
> parser.  One feature I appreciate in the design, is that the source of
> options is seperated from the rest of the design.  This means that, out of
> the box, it reads options from command line, from config files, and from
> env variables.  Probably not hard to extend if anyone could think of a
> reason.
> 
> I believe a decent config module should at least handle both config files
> and command line options.  ENV variables are a nice touch too.

I did something similar in shtoom (see the svn repo) - you provide
definitions of the options, and it builds up optparse, configparser,
and GUI preferences dialogs for them. Options provided are then stored
in the configparser file format, so you don't have to re-enter them
each time.


From nick at craig-wood.com  Wed Nov  3 13:30:30 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 03 Nov 2004 18:30:30 GMT
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
References: <cthoeigtdun.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
	<slrncohmqk.n07.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<TfOdna4IePwZexXcRVn-pA@powergate.ca>
	<TbadndhdMqHzaRXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
	<TbadndtdMqGHaBXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
	<6_qdnQZOZ_YYZRXcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <slrncoi7qs.dnr.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>  >>> t = T()
>  >>> t
> <T(Thread-7, started)>
>  >>> asyncexc = ctypes.pythonapi.PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc
>  >>> exc = ctypes.py_object(ValueError)
>  >>> asyncexc(t.id, exc)
>  1
>  >>> thread terminated!
> 
>  >>> t
> <T(Thread-7, stopped)>

On a related subject, I'm trying to forcibly terminate a thread thats
already running.  I don't see any means of doing this in the docs.
Sending it an exception would be ideal.  Is the above the only way of
doing this?

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From hsh at freecode.dk  Mon Nov  1 17:33:23 2004
From: hsh at freecode.dk (Henrik S. Hansen)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 23:33:23 +0100
Subject: Translating escaped characters
Message-ID: <j6qi52-ei2.ln1@tchaikovsky.freecode.dk>

How do you best go about translating characters like '\\n' to '\n'?
This is for a configuration file parser, where the "backslash
convention" is supported.

The naive approach -- re.sub('\\\\(.)', '\\\1', s) -- doesn't work, of
course.  The best I've come up with so far is a special case for every
character to be translated.  There must be an easier way?

-- 
Henrik S. Hansen     http://freecode.dk/~hsh/
Computer science (software engineering) student
Free Software Foundation member #1702 (http://member.fsf.org)


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Nov 30 17:50:09 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:50:09 +0100
Subject: A way to wait Python event
References: <89cc6e1f.0411301357.6f306893@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <coitf2$p1r$03$1@news.t-online.com>

> I tried to launch "python.exe test.py" in another program. After the
> launch the console was showed and exited on Windows. I want the
> console stay there. Is there a Python statement to wait an event loop
> like Tcl's "after forever"?

I'm a happy linux user who is always amazed by such things when using
windows. So the first thing I do on a windows-box is to install cygwin, and
then execute commands from a proper shell.

Apart from that, I believe what you expirience has nothing to do with python
- windows just kills the command-window if your app exits. And thats well
after python is actually in command.

So maybe you can do somthing like this:

if __name__ == "__main__":
    try:
        ... # do something
    except:
        print sys.exc_info()[1]
        while True:
             time.sleep(0.2)

That should stop the interpreter in case of an exception. Unindenting the
last while will wait in every case, so you can inspect the output
nonetheless.

Apart from that, there might be some hidden "keep this damn window open
after the executed progam terminated"-checkbox. Happy hunting.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Mon Nov 22 20:04:09 2004
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 17:04:09 -0800
Subject: Few doctest notes
Message-ID: <5c882bb5.0411221704.606e0bd2@posting.google.com>

doctest module is quite useful; and I've also tried the simpler docex:
http://aima.cs.berkeley.edu/python/docex.html
http://aima.cs.berkeley.edu/python/docex.py
(docex isn't perfect, there are problems with functions without a
return, and with functions with prints inside, but it can be useful,
easy to use, and it produces very short docs.)


Looking at docex I think doctest usage can be simplified a little, and
the doctest output can be shortened, because this can become a bit
long:
Running example.__doc__
0 of 0 examples failed in example.__doc__
Running example._test.__doc__
0 of 0 examples failed in example._test.__doc__
Running example. ...


>From doctest Library Reference:
>For example, when printing a dict, Python doesn't guarantee that the
key-value pairs will be printed in any particular order, so a test
like<
docex solves similar problems not using a string comparison, but
executing the output too, and then with a comparison of the resulting
objects (but in some special cases the output cannot be executed, like
where there is a Traceback, or ... or ==>)


I think "..." can also be used at the end of very long output lines,
this time a string comparison is used because such objects cannot be
executed.


docex uses a ==> syntax, like:
Ex: sqrt(4) ==> 2
This can be useful in doctest too for simple functions, to make
shorter docs, but it can also be triky to implement correctly.


>From doctest Library Reference:
>Expected output cannot contain an all-whitespace line, since such a
line is taken to signal the end of expected output.<
Then maybe to distinguish such cases it can added a "tag" at the start
of every output line, like "< " or "<<< ". (but such symbols probably
have to be added by hand...). Example:

This is a useless comment:
>>> foo(2)
<<< 2
<<< 2
This is a second useless comment:
>>> foo(3)
<<< 3
<<< 3
<<< 3
foo(0) prints a number with thousands of digits:
>>> foo(0)
<<< 555126219729759572912...
An error:
>>> foo(-1)
<<< AssertionError: foo(n): n cannot be negative.

Hugs,
Bearophile


From gohadbhai at rediffmail.com  Mon Nov  1 05:25:57 2004
From: gohadbhai at rediffmail.com (Sandeep Avinash Gohad)
Date: 1 Nov 2004 10:25:57 -0000
Subject: binary data into long/float
Message-ID: <20041101102557.4271.qmail@mailweb33.rediffmail.com>

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 ?

Hello

I am using the following  program to read a file in binary mode and then convert it into Long or float data.
but in few fields the data is not consistent,so it sometimes can be float and sometimes long, but the program do not give any error like
"invalid datatype".
now if i want to set condition for some fields ,like if the number in that particular field is greater than 10000000 then use float else Long how can i set such type of condition?

Regards
Sandeep


import array

def readLong(f00):
    arr = array.array('L') 
    arr.fromfile(fin,1) 
    return arr.tolist()[0] 

def readFloat(f00):
    arr = array.array('f')
    arr.fromfile(fin,1)
    return arr.tolist()[0]

def readThreeLongAndOneFloat(f00):
    """Reads 3 longints, one float and again 3 longints from file fin"""
    long1 = readLong(f00)
    long2 = readLong(f00)
    long3 = readLong(f00)
    float1 = readFloat(f00)
    ong4 = readLong(f00)
    ong5 = readLong(f00)
    long6 = readLong(f00)
    return (long1, long2, long3,float1, long4, long5, long6)


def createCSVLine(threeLongAndOneFloatTuple):
     lst = map(lambda x:str(x), threeLongAndOneFloatTuple[0:7])
     return ','.join(lst) + '\n'


f00 = open("c:/20041029.abc","rb")
outputlist = [] 

run = 1
while run:
    try:
        tup = readThreeLongAndOneFloat(f00)
    except EOFError: 
        run=0
    else:
        outputlist.append(createCSVLine(tup)) 


f00.readline()
f00.close()

# send all the lines accumulated to the output file.

fo=open("c:/20041029.csv","w")
fo.writelines(outputlist)
fo.close()


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Fri Nov 12 07:44:54 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:44:54 +0100
Subject: Plone and mod_python
References: <7l1ld.13845$3_.7287@ns2.gip.net>
Message-ID: <gr3aeg0wjjx.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Tony Ha (2004-11-12 11:42 +0100)
> Can some one explain what are the differences between "plone" and "Apache +
> mod_python"?

Plone is a content management system (CMS) based on the Content
Management Framework (CMF) based on the Zope web application server
 
> From plone.org. It says "Plone is powerful and flexible. It is ideal as an
> intranet
> and extranet server" does this mean if I use "plone" I do not need to
> install
> "Apache + mod_python"?

Plone (in specific Zope) needs a web server to serve HTML pages. You
can use the builtin Medusa for that or Apache for larger environments.
mod_perl enables Apache without Zope to execute Python scripts (CGI).

Thorsten


From colin.steadman at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 03:47:33 2004
From: colin.steadman at gmail.com (Colin Steadman)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 00:47:33 -0800
Subject: Get Special Folders (ie Desktop location)
Message-ID: <52d372cd.0411300047.6329dfa4@posting.google.com>

I'm just starting out writing Python scripts (in PSP), and need to
find the location of Windows special folders such as 'My Documents'
and 'Desktop' so that I can save files in the right place.  Is there
any method I can use in Python to get these?

If I were doing this in VBScript it'd be:

  Dim    WSHShell
  Set    WSHShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
  msgbox WSHShell.SpecialFolders("Desktop")

TIA,

Colin


From timr at probo.com  Mon Nov 22 02:46:44 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:46:44 -0800
Subject: Python with Apache 2.0
References: <89cc6e1f.0411190632.2976b3e1@posting.google.com>
	<306sikF2sueanU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<89cc6e1f.0411192240.456eb9bb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5663q0pmkpkgdfc2na0kcpn5eipr9abp83@4ax.com>

changli_to at hotmail.com (Chang LI) wrote:

>Damjan <gdamjan at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<306sikF2sueanU1 at uni-berlin.de>...
>> > Does python support threads safely along with Apache 2.0 in web
>> > applications.
>> 
>> Are you talking about mod_python?
>> If so, then yes. But note that Apache threads entering the python
>> interpreter (via mod_python) will be serialized on the GIL.
>
>Yes, use mod_python. I plan to use Python to replace PHP and other
>languages. The low efficient CGI will be replaced by embedded Python
>program. Apache 2.0 is faviority becuase the threads are must have
>features.

I would like to point out yet again that CGI isn't as bad as many people
make it out to be.  Unless you know you need to handle thousands of
requests per minute, the overhead of creating a process and firing up the
interpreter is not significant.

CGI is certainly an easier debug environment than mod_python or any of the
long-running-process solutions.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Tue Nov 16 07:34:11 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:34:11 -0300
Subject: save a dictionary in a file
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7BE3@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Leif K-Brooks]

#- 
#- Mariano Draghi wrote:
#- > class PersistentDict(dict):
#- >     '''Persistent dictionary.
#- > 
#- >     It's a dictionary that saves and loads its data to a file.
#- >     '''
#- 
#- Sounds pretty similar to shelve 
#- (http://python.org/doc/lib/module-shelve.html) to me. Have you 
#- considered using it instead?

We actually didn't know about it, and reinvented the wheel, :(

Mariano, we need to use shelve there, :p

.	Facundo
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From svenn.are at bjerkem.de  Thu Nov 11 14:14:45 2004
From: svenn.are at bjerkem.de (Svenn Are Bjerkem)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:14:45 +0100
Subject: Help on installing PyQt on MacOSX 10.3 needed
References: <m_akd.996$yk5.922@fe37.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <2vhs13F2m9uktU1@uni-berlin.de>

On 2004-11-09 22:52:18 +0100, Kevin Walzer <sw at wordtech-software.com> said:

> PyQt is installed in the site-packages directory on OS X--there's
> nothing special you need to do, it "just works" and loads up fine.

Am I supposed to create static or dynamic libraries for sip and pyqt if 
I only want to use with the MacOSX python?

-- 
Svenn



From drtimcouper at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Nov 10 12:44:44 2004
From: drtimcouper at yahoo.co.uk (Tim Couper)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:44:44 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: JPype download?
Message-ID: <20041110174444.84843.qmail@web25003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

David Morgenthaler wrote:


> The example I wrote is too long to include here, but
you can get it at
>
http://home.comcast.net/~david.g.morgenthaler/Jpypejms.zip.
It

The .zip file doesn't appear to be there?

Tim


	
	
		
___________________________________________________________ 
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com


From mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net  Fri Nov 12 14:52:14 2004
From: mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net (Jean Brouwers)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:52:14 GMT
Subject: pickle: huge memory consumption *during* pickling
References: <cn00o5$r0j$1@fuerst.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<slrncp7bve.tb7.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<cn1rt4$agn$1@fuerst.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
Message-ID: <121120041153144825%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>


Using __slots__ will reduce memory usage quite a bit.  Like the OP, we
found significant improvements in both memory usage and speed, more
details here

<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-May/220513.html>

But __slots__ do have restictions, see

<http://docs.python.org/ref/slots.html>

Also, it is unclear whether SWIG can generate a class with __slots__ at
all. 

/Jean Brouwers
 ProphICy Semiconductor, Inc.



In article <cn1rt4$agn$1 at fuerst.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>, Hans Georg
Krauthaeuser <hgk at et.uni-magdeburg.de> wrote:

> Nick Craig-Wood wrote:
> > ....
> > You've probably got lots of instances of a single class...  We managed
> 
> You are right. My data are class objects taken from a c++ class (via swig).
> 
> > to 1/3 the memory requirments in a similar situation by using new
> > style classes (inherit from object) and defining __slots__ for just a
> > single class!
> 
> Interesting, I didn't noticed __slots__ before.
> 
> In the swig-wrapper I found that my object are inherited from _object 
> and that is
> 
> import types
> try:
>      _object = types.ObjectType
>      _newclass = 1
> except AttributeError:
>      class _object : pass
>      _newclass = 0
> del types
> 
> So, this are new style classes.
> 
> Now, I have to see how to get swig to generate __slots__ ...
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Hans Georg


From jwaixs at freeler.nl  Wed Nov 17 10:08:51 2004
From: jwaixs at freeler.nl (Noud Aldenhoven)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:08:51 +0100
Subject: Newbie:  Python & ADFGVX Cipher Cracking?
References: <fiJmd.1238$Tq6.434@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5a2b2$419b644b$53e8229a$21062@freeler.nl>

Byron wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I am working on building a program that cracks "ADFGVX" ciphers.
> However, I have run into a minor problem, is has to do with figuring out
> the different potential character re-arrangement combinations.  See
> example below for clarification:
> 
> The characters "ABC" can be re-arranged in several different possible
> ways:
> 
> 1) ABC
> 2) BAC
> 3) BCA
> 4) ACB
> 5) CAB
> 6) CBA
> 
> Is there a python function in which I can sent a string of characters to
> -- and it will provide me with a list of all possible combinations
> available?
> 
> example function call:   possCharList = allCombinations("ABC")
> 
> Any help SINCERELY appreciated!!
> 
> Byron
> ---

Hello,

You mean something like this?

===================================

justanABClist = ["A","B","C"]

for letter in justanABClist:
        for letter1 in justanABClist[1:]:       #first letter already used
                for letter2 in justanABClist[1:]:
                        print letter, letter1, letter2
        justanABClist.append(justanABClist[0])
        justanABClist.pop()

===================================
        


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Sat Nov 20 08:28:12 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:28:12 +0100
Subject: perl -pi.bak  -e equivalent
References: <c9eae90e.0411200507.3b3e90e3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cnngpb$qtm$05$3@news.t-online.com>

Caj Zell wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I am looking a little bit at python and am curious of one thing I
> often use in perl. Suppose, I want to change the string
> "best_composer" to "Zappa" in a document called facts.txt, then in
> perl I would do
> 
> perl -pi.bak  -e "s/best_composer/Zappa/;" facts.txt
> 
> Can I do that with python from the command line so easily?

Short answer: No. Perl is designed for this kind of stuff. Python won't
catch up in that field, for various reasons. There have been plenty of
discussions on the subject of one-liners in python - googl.groups will show
you to them. 

As always, its important to use the right tool for the job - and in this
case, I'd even go for sed :)

sed s/best_composer/Zappa/ < facts.txt > pi.bak

is even shorter...

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Nov  7 21:11:13 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 15:11:13 +1300
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
In-Reply-To: <60dfb6f6.0411050715.601f381f@posting.google.com>
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<60dfb6f6.0411050715.601f381f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2v82u3F2dhtcpU1@uni-berlin.de>

Carl Banks wrote:
> I recommend we stop using "weak/strong typing" as a technical term,
> and leave it to be a meaningless buzzword for the ignorant peasantry.

How about:

    solid typing -- sharp boundaries between types, few
                    automatic coercions

    fluid typing -- lots of automatic coercions

(Don't ask me what "gaseous typing" might mean...)

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Nov  9 15:07:58 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:07:58 -0600
Subject: Umlauts, encodings, sitecustomize.py
In-Reply-To: <cmr3i7$mfj$1@newshispeed.ch>
References: <cmfeqg$l73$1@newshispeed.ch>
	<mailman.6167.1100019195.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmr3i7$mfj$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <20041109200758.GB3878@unpythonic.net>

On Tue, Nov 09, 2004 at 07:52:58PM +0100, F. GEIGER wrote:
> "Jeff Epler" <jepler at unpythonic.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:mailman.6167.1100019195.5135.python-list at python.org...
> 
> > You should note that chr(0x84) is *not* a-umlaut in iso-8859-1.  That's
> chr(0xe4).  You may be using one of these Windows-specific encodings:
> >     cp437.py:       0x0084: 0x00e4, # LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
> >     cp775.py:       0x0084: 0x00e4, # LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
> >     cp850.py:       0x0084: 0x00e4, # LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
> >     cp852.py:       0x0084: 0x00e4, # LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
> >     cp857.py:       0x0084: 0x00e4, # LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
> >     cp861.py:       0x0084: 0x00e4, # LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
> >     cp865.py:       0x0084: 0x00e4, # LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do mean I use one of these
> accidentially? Or should I switch to one of these in my sitecutsomize.py?
> 
> I'm a bit confused. When I let Python print an ? (umlaut a) by simply
> entering the 1-char string "?", it prints '\x84'.

In the encoding iso-8859-1, the character chr(0xe4) is LATIN SMALL
LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS.  chr(0x84) is not a printable character.

In the encodings I named above, chr(0x84) is LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH
DIAERESIS.

Now, consider this program that creates a program:
    def maker(filename, encoding, ch):
        f = open(filename, "w")
        f.write("# -*- coding: %s -*-\n" % encoding)
        f.write("print '%s'\n" % ch)
if you call
    maker("coded.py", "iso-8859-1", "\xe4")
the created script will contain a byte string literal with the byte
'\xe4' in it.  When you run the script, it will print that byte followed
by the byte '\n'.  *In fact, this behavior (sequence of bytes written to
sys.stdout) doesn't depend on encoding, as long as
    '\xe4'.decode(encoding).encode(encoding) == '\xe4'
which should hold true in almost all single-byte encodings.*

What you *see* when you run the script depends on the meaning your
terminal window ("DOS box") assigns to the byte sequence '\xe4\n'.  On
mine, which expects output in UTF-8, I get a mark which indicates an
incomplete multi-byte character and then a newline.  On yours, you
apparently get some other character, possibly LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH
TILDE if your terminal uses cp770, cp850, or cp857.

Now, consider this program with a u''-string literal:
    def umaker(filename, encoding, ch):
        f = open(filename, "w")
        f.write("# -*- coding: %s -*-\n" % encoding)
        f.write("print u'%s'\n" % ch)
If you call
    umaker("ucoded.py", "iso-8859-1", "\xe4")
the created script will again contain the literal byte "\xe4".  When you
run the script, you may get an error that says
    UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
this is because the string to be printed is a unicode string containing
the letter LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS, but Python believes the
terminal can only accept ASCII-encoded strings for display.  In my
Python 2.3 on Unix, sys.stdout.encoding is "UTF-8", and running
ucoded.py outputs the 3 byte sequence "\303\244\n", which in UTF-8 is a
LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS followed by a carriage return.

I suspect that wxpython is like tkinter: It is designed so that
u''-strings (unicode strings) can be given as arguments anywhere strings
can, and that internally the necessary steps are taken to find the
proper glyphs in the font to display that string.  Otherwise, there may
be a particular encoding assumed for all byte strings, which will have
no relationship to the -*- coding -*- of your scripts.

Jeff
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From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Nov 16 14:00:52 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:00:52 -0600
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <20041116085317.F96A.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <mailman.6409.1100591151.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gncdvv.1y2msbz1yc1gaeN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<20041116085317.F96A.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <419A4E64.6050005@colorstudy.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
>>Since the actual need for type-checking is extremely rare, I contend it
>>should not _at all_ be a candidate for a syntax to facilitate it.  Since
>>the actual need for adaptation is much wider, I contend it's the one
>>obvious choice for the "nice syntax" if any.
> 
> 
> Sounds reasonable, but there will be a group of people who will beg and
> plead for type checking, because they want "static type checking on
> function call and return".

Yes, but they've been begging for it for years.  They seem insistant 
that this Python Thing will never catch on without these important features.

Anyway, a much more general and useful feature would be contracts. 
Which is just to say, a formal place to put constraints on input and 
output for a function.  Contracts could include type checking -- 
sometimes quite validly -- but not necessarily.  There's no type that 
can indicate "only valid username strings" or "only integers contrained 
by some global variable".

> @ multi_dispatch_to_methods
> class A(object):
>   dispatch = dispatch_factory()
>   
>   @ dispatch(int)
>   def foo(x): ...
> 
>   @ dispatch(float)
>   def foo(x): ...
> 
> 
> It may have a couple warts, but it is implementable today.

Phillip Eby just did this, in like the last week.  It's very cool:

   http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/VisitorRevisited
   http://www.eby-sarna.com/pipermail/peak/2004-November/001916.html

It looks similar to what you were thinking:

class A(object):
     @dispatch.on('x')
     def foo(x):
         """This is a dummy function, for documentation purposes"""

     @foo.when(int)
     def foo(x): ...

     @foo.when(float)
     def foo(x): ...

Of course, you can use interfaces in addition to types, and you can also 
use arbitrary expressions (e.g., @foo.when("x % 2") and @foo.when("not x 
% 2") to dispatch odd and even numbers separately).

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Fri Nov 26 13:37:04 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 19:37:04 +0100
Subject: Number of colors in an image
Message-ID: <1075192482.20041126193704@geochemsource.com>

  Hello,

How can I determine the number of colors used in an image? I tried to
search on Google but I could figure out. I read the PIL handbook but I
do not see how to do it. Can anyone help?


-- 
Best regards,
 Laszlo                          

mailto:gandalf at geochemsource.com
web: http://designasign.biz






From no at spam.invalid  Mon Nov 29 19:32:36 2004
From: no at spam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:32:36 -0800
Subject: tkinter shell problem
References: <mailman.6760.1101319149.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cogf37$4v1$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.6760.1101319149.5135.python-list at python.org>,
 "Philippe C. Martin" <philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I have the following problem:...
>If I trap (an exception), I do not get the stack dump that I which I would show.
>...
>If I don"t trap it, then my clean up code...does not get called...
>
>Yet Idle manages - any clue ?

Use the traceback module. For example:

            try:
                ...code to protect...
            except (SystemExit, KeyboardInterrupt):
                raise
            except Exception, e:
                traceback.print_exc(file=sys.stderr)
                ....code to handle exception...

if you are sure none of your code can raise error exceptions that 
inherit directly from Exception, you can simplify this to one except:
    except StandardError, e:
Unfortunately, some common modules (including Tkinter) raise exceptions 
that inherit from Exception, not StandardError.

-- Russell


From mwm at mired.org  Sat Nov  6 13:52:35 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 12:52:35 -0600
Subject: Sax Handler
References: <mailman.6012.1099764986.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <x7hdo2rerw.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Juliano Freitas <jubafre at atlas.ucpel.tche.br> writes:

> hello!!!
>
> here is my pythn code that's handle a xml file:
>
> =============================================================
> from xml.sax import saxutils, saxlib, saxexts, parseString
>
> class swdbHandler(saxlib.DocumentHandler):
>         def __init__(self):
>                 self.flag = 0
>
>         def startElement(self, name, atts):
>                 if name == "swml":
>                         print "enter"
>
>         def endElement(self, name):
>                 if name == "swml":
>                         print "exit"
>
> parser = saxexts.make_parser()
> parser.setDocumentHandler(swdbHandler())
>
> # here
> parser.parseFile(open("exemplo.xml"))
> =============================================================
>
> i want to parse a "xml string" not a file how can i pass my swdbHandler
> to this string?? with parseString? i try but doesnt work?
> somebody can help me with this??

Try the StringIO module. That will give you a file-like object for a string.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Sat Nov 20 08:22:09 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:22:09 +0100
Subject: stopping the sound server in PySol code -- how?
References: <iqAnd.69632$SW3.42915@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <cnnge0$qtm$05$2@news.t-online.com>

Lynn wrote:

> I have a SuSe 9.1 linux box (although this isn't a new issue) with
> reasonably up to date everything.  When I run PySol, it grabs the sound
> system in a rude and complete way.
> 
> I don't listen to sound and I NEED my sound system available even if PySol
> is running.
> 
> Does anyone have a simple way of ripping the sound functionality our of
> PySol?  I've not enough of a python programmer to deal with this.
> Everything I've tried has just generated a ton of errors.

What sound server do you use? I run kde and thus artsd. There is a wrapper
called artsdsp. When putting that in front of your program, it will ensure
that access to /dev/dsp and the like are rerouted through the soundserver.

for example

artsdsp enigma

lets me play enigma along with xmms. Of course you have to use xmms arts
plugin for output, as otherwise xmms shows the same annoying behaviour.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From mfuhr at fuhr.org  Mon Nov  8 01:17:50 2004
From: mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr)
Date: 7 Nov 2004 23:17:50 -0700
Subject: checking a thread has started
References: <mailman.6001.1099749512.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<qliv52-mlq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<418d3323$1_2@omega.dimensional.com>
	<mailman.6030.1099794009.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418da3e0$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
	<mailman.6101.1099891397.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418f0f8e$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>

Deepak Sarda <deepak.sarda at gmail.com> writes:

> The following script always works for threads less than 8. Increase it
> beyond that and it almost always fails. I say almost always because
> sometimes it manages to run. But it fails almost 98% of the time
> (unscientific observation!). The key thing is the os.system() call.
> Without that, everything works fine. Also - if I start the threads
> just after creating them - then the success rate become 98% (again -
> guess).

I wonder if you're hitting a resource limit on number of processes;
maybe your CGI environment has lower limits than your shell
environment.  Omitting os.system() would reduce the number of
processes you're running, and starting the threads immediately after
creating them would mean that some os.system() calls might finish
before others started, again reducing the number of concurrent
processes.  That's one possible explanation that fits the facts,
so let's check it out:

What do you get when you run the following script from the shell
and then as a CGI program?

#!/bin/sh
echo "Content-Type: text/plain"
echo ""
ulimit -a

-- 
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/


From phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk  Mon Nov 29 09:32:55 2004
From: phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 14:32:55 -0000 (GMT)
Subject: PyQt on a Server
In-Reply-To: <slrncqmbfk.2nq.rparnes@debian.localdomain>
References: <slrncqmbfk.2nq.rparnes@debian.localdomain>
Message-ID: <36413.82.68.80.137.1101738775.squirrel@82.68.80.137>

This is likely to be a Qt/X setup problem - PyQt doesn't explicitly call
Xrender.

Does your workstation /etc/ld.so.conf contain a line for /usr/X11R6/lib?

Phil

> I have an application importing qt on a linux server and am missing
> something in trying to run it from a workstation via nfs. The
> workstation has the server /usr directory mounted to its own /usr
> directory, so it can access the necessary files. The error I get is
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/demo/revenues.py", line 24, in ?
>     from qt import *
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/qt.py", line 24, in ?
>     import libsip
> ImportError: libXrender.so.1: cannot open shared object file:
>   No such file or directory
>
> I can see the file in /usr/X11R6/lib. So maybe there is a path variable
> that qt.py uses and that has to be set on the workstation. If so, I don't
> know how to find it. Thanks for any help.
>
> Bob
>
> --
> Bob Parnes
> rparnes at megalink.net



From mynewjunkaccount at hotmail.com  Sat Nov 20 18:30:33 2004
From: mynewjunkaccount at hotmail.com (Benjamin Scott)
Date: 20 Nov 2004 15:30:33 -0800
Subject: R BATCH jobs from Python
Message-ID: <ccdb2248.0411201530.1ee3df95@posting.google.com>

hello,

i have been attempting to run BATCH jobs on WinXP/Server2003 using
Python.  It seems that my questions are similar to those of a previous
OPs.  Unfortunately, what seemed like a simple question/request either
digressed or was misinterpreted to the tune of 19 posts:

Author: Moosebumps
Subject (1): Batch commands on Windows
Subject (2): os.system always opens new window on Windows XP/2000

here is the operation that works, but isn't actually carried out in
Python:

Start->Run "cmd" ***command line appears***

then i enter the following commands (i copied and pasted the whole
session so that you can see exactly what i did):
******************************************************
Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\BRdir>cd c:\Applications\R\rw1091\bin

C:\Applications\R\rw1091\bin>Rcmd BATCH c:\test.txt

C:\Applications\R\rw1091\bin>
******************************************************

now, the whole point here is to send the following R script to the
program  c:\Applications\R\rw1091\bin\Rcmd.exe, i.e. the file cited as
"c:\test.txt" contains the following code:

********************************************************
library(lattice)
x<-read.csv('C:\\Data\\EData\\eFile.txt')
a<-as.matrix(x[,1])
b<-as.matrix(x[,2])
c<-as.matrix(x[,3])
X11()
levelplot(c~a*b)
savePlot(filename='c:\\test2',type='jpeg')
********************************************************

now, the procedure i have just outlined works absolutely perfect.  i
have spent some time trying to do this from Python; this includes
looking at posts and references from everywhere i was able to find
them.  i still can't run an analogous procedure from python.  i have
attempted to use os.system, the popen family.  i feel like part of the
issue is that i can't find enough simple examples on how to use these
tools.

thanks in advance for your feedback,

benjamin scott


From someone at microsoft.com  Sat Nov 20 22:16:22 2004
From: someone at microsoft.com (Jive)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 03:16:22 GMT
Subject: don't NaN & infinities hide FP errors
References: <940ee3e8.0411170130.31d247@posting.google.com><cnf963$ioc$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<mailman.6482.1100699355.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aMTnd.3355456$yk.521301@news.easynews.com>

I kind of like the various flavors of NaN.  I have on occasion written
numerical code that exploits them.  But seeing as how Python aspires to some
level of cross-platform portability, it really should throw exceptions
rather than return NaN's, Inf's, and the lot.  I am surprised that it
doesn't always do that.

jdadson at yahoo dott com

"Tim Peters" <tim.peters at gmail.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.6482.1100699355.5135.python-list at python.org...
> [Peter Maas]
> > Just try it. 1./0. raises a ZeroDivisionError,
>
> That much is true -- Python forces this.
>
> > math.log(0) raises a math range error, and math.log(-1) yields nan.
>
> The rest varies across platforms, as explained in this note at the end
> of Python's math module docs:
>
> """
> The math module consists mostly of thin wrappers around the platform C
> math library functions. Behavior in exceptional cases is loosely
> specified by the C standards, and Python inherits much of its
> math-function error-reporting behavior from the platform C
> implementation. As a result, the specific exceptions raised in error
> cases (and even whether some arguments are considered to be
> exceptional at all) are not defined in any useful cross-platform or
> cross-release way. For example, whether math.log(0) returns -Inf or
> raises ValueError or OverflowError isn't defined, and in cases where
> math.log(0) raises OverflowError, math.log(0L) may raise ValueError
> instead.
> """




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov 19 16:32:48 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:32:48 -0500
Subject: Class Encapsulation Errors in Python 2.3.3
References: <47f7cc78.0411182007.1b77c2b1@posting.google.com><nrudnceoVIIV5QDcRVn-hw@rogers.com>
	<47f7cc78.0411191005.7b793bf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cnlopm$lmr$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Tim Henderson" <tim.tadh at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:47f7cc78.0411191005.7b793bf at posting.google.com...
> Here is a partial implementation, i don't have the code with me but
> this is how the songs list is made
>
> code:
> -------------------------------------------
> class Album:
>
>    name = ''
>    songs = []
>    artist = ''

Delete all three of these lines.  The name and artist lines have no effect 
since they are over-ridden by the local variables of the same name in 
__init__.  The songs line makes songs an attribute of the Album class, 
which you do not want, instead of each Album instance, which you do.

>    def __init__(self, name, artist):

If you want artist to be optional, augment to ..., artist = ''

>
>        self.name = name
>        self.artist = artist

add
          self.songs = []
now songs is an attribute of the album.

> possible revision
[snip]
>        if songs == False:
>            songs = []

This assignment makes songs a local variable in the init function, which is 
again what you don't want.  In fact, the test will fail since local var 
songs will not have a value before the assignment.  See proper fix above.

Terry J. Reedy





From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 19:59:37 2004
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony C)
Date: 1 Nov 2004 16:59:37 -0800
Subject: Linksys Router & Python
References: <cltjkt$4fi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>	<20041029112922.0BD9.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5681.1099078529.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8249c4ac.0411011659.3b8fc11@posting.google.com>

Cliff


>>dyndns.org has a listing of many of them.
Can you provide the full URL to these scripts, or do you need an
account to get them ?

Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.5681.1099078529.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 11:31 -0700, Josiah Carlson wrote:
> 
> > Some linksys routers offer support for dynamic hostnames via no-ip.org
> > or dyndns.org.  That is, they connect to the dynamic dns server, tell it
> > "hey, I'm now ip address ...", and within about 5-10 minutes, the rest
> > of the world knows it.
> 
> There's also a plethora of scripts (several of them in Python) that do
> the equivalent.  dyndns.org has a listing of many of them.
> 
> Regards,
> Cliff


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Nov 19 07:30:54 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 07:30:54 -0500
Subject: PyCon Reminder
Message-ID: <DJlnd.140$T02.114@lakeread06>

Hello. This is juts a reminder that PyCon DC 2005 is coming (it's now
only FOUR MONTHS AWAY ...) and that if you plan to attend you might like
to consider giving a talk.

The Call for Papers is at http://www.python.org/pycon/2005/cfp.html and
the closing date is 31 December. If you're a procrastinator like me then
now's the time to start work!

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Sun Nov 14 22:59:47 2004
From: abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Ajay)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 14:59:47 +1100
Subject: Python on Smartphone 2003?
In-Reply-To: <3222fe00.0411141329.4babbadd@posting.google.com>
References: <3222fe00.0411141329.4babbadd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1100491187.419829b3675fd@www-mail.usyd.edu.au>

try posting on the pythonce mailing list.

cheers

Quoting Sean <stuffduff at cox.net>:

> Hi,
>
> Trying to compile the PythonCE (Validus Medical Systems Python 2.3.4)
> using eVC++ 4.0 and the Smartphone2003 SDK.  Linking is generating 28
> errors.  I dug into the first one (PyErr_Fetch) and it's in pyerrors.h
> so I don't see why it misses it.
>
> Anyone have an idea?
>
> TIA
>
> Sean
>
> Deleting intermediate files and output files for project 'python -
> Win32 (WCE ARMV4) Release'.
> --------------------Configuration: python - Win32 (WCE ARMV4)
> Release--------------------
> Compiling resources...
> Compiling...
> python.c
> tracebackdialog.c
> Linking...
> python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
> __imp_PyErr_Fetch referenced in function WinMain
> python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol Py_fclose
> referenced in function WinMain
> python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
> __imp_PyRun_SimpleFile referenced in function WinMain
> python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
> __imp_PyErr_SetString referenced in function WinMain
> python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
> __imp_PyExc_ValueError referenced in function WinMain
> python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol Py_fopen
> referenced in function WinMain
> python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
> __imp_PyObject_CallObject referenced in function WinMain
> tracebackdialog.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
> __imp_PyObject_CallObject
> python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
> __imp_PyObject_GetAttrString referenced in function WinMain
> tracebackdialog.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
> __imp_PyObject_GetAttrString
> python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
> __imp_PyImport_ImportModule referenced in function WinMain
> tracebackdialog.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
> __imp_PyImport_ImportModule referenced in function
> PyTraceback_AsString
> python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
> __imp_PySys_SetArgv referenced in function WinMain
> python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
> __imp_PySys_SetObject referenced in function WinMain
> python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
> __imp_PyInt_FromLong referenced in function WinMain
> python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
> __imp_Py_Initialize referenced in function WinMain
> python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
> __imp_Py_SetProgramName referenced in function WinMain
> python.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
> __imp_Py_InteractiveFlag referenced in function WinMain
> tracebackdialog.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
> __imp_PyString_AsString referenced in function PyTraceback_AsString
> tracebackdialog.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
> __imp_PyMem_Malloc referenced in function PyTraceback_AsString
> tracebackdialog.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
> __imp_PyType_IsSubtype referenced in function PyTraceback_AsString
> tracebackdialog.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
> __imp_PyString_Type referenced in function PyTraceback_AsString
> tracebackdialog.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
> __imp_Py_BuildValue referenced in function PyTraceback_AsString
> tracebackdialog.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
> __imp__Py_NoneStruct referenced in function PyTraceback_AsString
> tracebackdialog.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
> __imp_PyMem_Free referenced in function DialogProc
> tracebackdialog.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
> __imp_PyObject_Str referenced in function DialogProc
> tracebackdialog.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol
> SHInitDialog referenced in function FixupWindowSizeForWinCE
> ARMV4Rel/python.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 24 unresolved externals
> Error executing link.exe.
> Creating browse info file...
>
> python.exe - 28 error(s), 0 warning(s)
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.


From lashkariNO at SPAMworldviz.com  Wed Nov 10 14:06:33 2004
From: lashkariNO at SPAMworldviz.com (Farshid Lashkari)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:06:33 GMT
Subject: embedded python: efficency query
References: <mailman.6203.1100074409.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ZEtkd.2141$b92.1288@trnddc09>

Hi,

PyObject_CallFunction will parse the arguments and create a tuple from it,
which then calls PyObject_Call. You can try creating this tuple ahead of
time to avoid allocating it for every call. This might help a little.

-Farshid

<benevilent at optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.6203.1100074409.5135.python-list at python.org...
> Hey,
>
> I am embedding Python in an application, and have an efficency concern
> about this. There is a Python method which is called from the main
> application (written in C) many times per second (I am using the
> PyObject_Call function). Unfortunately this seems to be a bottleneck, as
> when the performance is compared to another language frontend of this
> application, when there involves many transitions from the core
> application to the language frontend, the other frontend outperforms
> Python. When there are few transitions from the core application to the
> language frontend (there still may be many transitions from the language
> frontend to the core application) Python outperforms the other language
> frontend by a healthy margin.
>
> I will try to profile the application with both frontends to find out
> more details, but I would be intereseted to know if there are any
> efficency improvements that can be used to speedup the Python frontend
> in the case described above.
>
> Thanks,
> Laurie
>
>




From domma at procoders.net  Mon Nov 22 05:25:19 2004
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma (Procoders))
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:25:19 +0100
Subject: Import problem
Message-ID: <cnseqa$g6s$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

in my __init__.py of module A.B if have something like:

from win32com.client import Dispatch
obj=Dispatch('...')
VERSION=tuple([int(x) for x in obj.Version.split('.')])
del obj

Now I should be able to write:

import A.B
if A.B.VERSION[0]=5:
     do_something()

but

from A.B import VERSION

does not work. Mysterious to me, but not a real problem. But now I have 
another problem. In my __init__.py I do something like this, after 
setting up my VERSION variable:

import _C
classA = _C.classA
classB = _C.classB

In _C I have to do some stuff depending on VERSION. Therefore I have in 
_C.py:

import A.B
if A.B.VERSION[0]==5:  <- Error
     do_something()

I get the error:
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'B'

Seems like I'm mixing up something in a very bad way, but I have no idea 
what I'm doing wrong!?

regards,
Achim


From faassen at infrae.com  Mon Nov 15 10:05:52 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:05:52 +0100
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4198C5D0.4080505@infrae.com>

Will Stuyvesant wrote:
> So Zope still lives, yay.  Well, I like that they use Python.  
> 
> <rant>
> 
> What amazed me is they write that they "added types to the variables
> and hope that it will be added to the Python project too".  Really. 
> ROFL.

Admittedly this is not a very good description of what is done, but I 
believe you lifted that out of an article on it on zdnet, so they can 
hardly go into deep detail there.

What this actually talks about is the explicit interface notation. This 
actually has a long long history in the Python world and the Zope 
project has been involved in this discussion for as long as this 
discussion exists. It goes back to Jim Fulton's straw man interface 
proposal from, I think, 2000, and the discussions on the now-defunct 
types-sig.

The interface system is also in use by Twisted. PyProtocols is another 
large Python project that can make use of Zope 3 interfaces (and adds 
ideas of its own).

So, while this may come across as arrogant from the Zope project, please 
note the following:

* there's a long background on this of Python community discussion. It's 
not something that the Zope project is suddenly dumping on you.

* it's unfair towards the Zope project and Zope corporation in 
particular. They've funded a lot of core Python development over the years.

> And instead of working on the engine they should have put more work
> into examples.

Both need to be done. :)

>  Simple tutorials. 

While I am sure they can be much improved, and the web presentation of 
the Zope 3 project is not very ideal, I don't think the situation is as 
dire as you suggest here. Witness the Zope 3 book:

http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/FrontPage/Zope3Book

> Downloadable executables for
> Windows that you can click and install. 

Someone still has to sit down and do this, I think. They do exist in the 
Zope 2 world, such as for Zope itself, Plone, and Silva.

> But most of all simple and
> good examples: webapplications like
> - a wiki in zope

This exists, actually:

http://svn.zope.org/Zope3/trunk/src/zwiki

> - a forum in zope, with agenda and calendar
> - a game like http://216.199.69.100/war/ in zope
> 
> They have a nice free webhosting thing for zope, but to expect new
> users to do everything from scratch...
> The "examples" I found were very disappointing.

I'm not sure where you were looking. Concerning examples and tutorials, 
Zope 3 is just in its beginning phase.

Regards,

Martijn


From ncoghlan at email.com  Sat Nov 27 07:43:09 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 22:43:09 +1000
Subject: Subclassing complex with computed arguments
In-Reply-To: <41a6b8a3$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <mailman.6798.1101436247.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41a6b8a3$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <41a8765d$0$25788$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

<resend, since my newsreader had an argument with the newsserver. Kent's latest 
post already addressed some of my points below>

Kent Johnson wrote:
 > I don't know if there is an easy way around this. A brute force approach
 > might be to override __add__(), etc to return point objects instead of
 > complex -

Yup, this is the only way I know to prevent ordinary complex() objects leaking
through the interface.

 > though I haven't been able to figure out how to do this. I tried:
 >     def __add__(self, *args, **kwds):
 >         val = complex.__add__(self, *args, **kwds)
 >         return point(val)

Try something like:

  def __add__(self, other):
	c_self, c_other = coerce(self, other)
         val = c_self.__add__(c_other)
         return point(val)

Since:

 >>> x = 1
 >>> c = 1j
 >>> c.__add__(x)
NotImplemented
 >>> c2, x2 = coerce(c, x)
 >>> c2.__add__(x2)
(1+1j)

Don't forget to override the __radd__ operators and friends, too.

 > class point(object):
 >
 > I tried adding a delegating __coerce__() to class point but it is never
 > called...

new-style classes do not invoke coercion unless you explicitly call coerce() on
them. If you don't inherit from object, the __coerce__ method should get called
if it's needed.

Here's some essential reading if you want to play with numerical operators:
http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.4/ref/numeric-types.html
http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.4/ref/coercion-rules.html

(I found these two pages of the Language Reference Manual essential while
helping out with the decimal implementation for Python 2.4 - much that had been
mysterious suddenly became clear after I read these docs)

Cheers,
Nick.


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Mon Nov 22 15:39:54 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:39:54 +0100
Subject: if need small python executable
In-Reply-To: <77969915.0411221152.6f293b6f@posting.google.com>
References: <77969915.0411221152.6f293b6f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41A24E9A.6020106@-nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl>

Nickolay wrote:
> it's easy to create small executable from python code, when using
> assembler compilers. I ask you if need it?

What's an assembler compiler?
I also don't understand your actual question.

--Irmen


From nun at example.com  Tue Nov 23 10:20:36 2004
From: nun at example.com (Mitja)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 16:20:36 +0100
Subject: SOS - unicode problems...
References: <mailman.6723.1101221453.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <opshxbkmcddob4us@localhost>

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:50:46 +0100, kepes.krisztian  
<kepes.krisztian at peto.hu> wrote:

> Hi !
>
> I use iso-8859-2 chrset (win1250), because I'm hungarian.
Those two are not the same thing, so first find out which one you're using.

> alb=unicode(alb)
> # alb=\'Z?rr\' (album value is 'Z?rr', where ? is o: (/xf6), a hung.  
> character).
> # it is came from a filename !
>
> But it is drop error !

Tell unicode which encoding to convert from, like this:
alb=unicode(alb,'iso-8859-2')
If you use win1250, use 'cp1250' as the second string.

>
> See this example that show the problem:
>
> s=\'Z?rr\'
> s=u\'x\'+s+u\'y\'
> print s
>
> or
>
> s='Z\xf6rr'
> s=u'x'+s+u'y'
> print s

Convert s before joining it with x and y, or alternatively define it as an  
unicode string at the beginning:
   s=u'Z\xf6rr'
   s='x'+s+'y'
   print s

-- 
Mitja


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov  2 16:39:19 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 21:39:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<4187aafe$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<slrncofp1m.dvf.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5839.1099426546.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncoftft.dvf.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <loom.20041102T221155-148@post.gmane.org>

Gabriel Zachmann <zach <at> cs.uni-bonn.de> writes:
> 
> >  (1) Weakly-typed languages allow you to take a block of memory that was
> >  originally defined as one type and reinterpret the bits of this block as 
> >  another type[1]. (This is the definition usually used in Programming 
> >  Languages literature.)
> >  
> >  (2) Weakly-typed languages have more implicit coercions than strongly-typed
> >  languages.  (This seems to be the favored definition on this newsgroup.)
> 
> Is either of them a subset of the other, generally speaking?

Not really -- they're pretty much orthogonal.

For example, C is weakly-typed (PL theory definition) but has only a few
implicit coercions (e.g. int->float with the + operator).  Of course, C only has
a very few basic types so it doesn't have as many chances to support implicit
coercions.  For example, there is no string type in C (only arrays of
characters), so it wouldn't really make sense to talk about some sort of
string->int coercion.

Python is strongly-typed (PL theory definition) and also has only a few implicit
coercions (e.g. int->float with the + operator).

ML is strongly-typed (PL theory definition) and has *very* few (perhaps none?)
implicit coercions, e.g.:

  # 1 + 1.0;;  
    
  Characters 4-7:
    1 + 1.0;;  
        ^^^
  This expression has type float but is here used with type int

not even the int->float conversion common to C, Java, Python, etc. is supported.

I don't know enough about Pascal, Perl or PHP to tell whether they are
weakly-typed or strongly-typed (PL theory definition).  Taking advantage of weak
typing isn't something I do much, so even in languages that I have passing
familiarity with, I've generally used only the strongly typed features.  To
someone who knows about Pascal, Perl or PHP: Can you reinterpret an object's
memory block as a different object like you can in C?

I've never had to code in Pascal, but my understanding was that there weren't
too many implicit coercions...  Please correct me on this one if anyone knows
better!  Examples in this thread suggest that both Perl and PHP have large
numbers of implicit coercions.


> both, if you don't mind 

I'm not willing to commit to anything for languages that I'm not really familiar
with, but here's what I'd say:

>From weakly-typed to strongly-typed (PL theory definition):

C < Java, Python, ML

Basically, there's no hierarchy, just weakly-typed and strongly-typed.  You
might get a hierarchy if you had some languages that allowed only some (but not
all) objects to be reinterpreted.

>From many implicit coercions to few implicit coercions:

C, Java, Python < ML

Of course, this isn't really helpful because C, Java and Python all contain only
a few implicit coercions (e.g. int->float with the + operator).  You'll have to
get a PHP/Perl/Pascal expert in to make any claims about them.

Steve



From russblau at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 17 09:51:30 2004
From: russblau at hotmail.com (Russell Blau)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:51:30 -0500
Subject: Python 2.2 on Red Hat
References: <BDC02405.3068%oct@redcatmedia.net>
	<9b6f95cb.0411170639.6e5c45fc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3016rjF2pvp6kU1@uni-berlin.de>


"David Ripton" <dripton at ripton.net> wrote in message
news:9b6f95cb.0411170639.6e5c45fc at posting.google.com...
> Andy Jacobs <oct at redcatmedia.net> wrote in message
news:<BDC02405.3068%oct at redcatmedia.net>...

> So you need to put a newer Python somewhere else.
>
> My advice is to install modern Python (like 2.3.4), from source (it's
> easy: standard ./configure; make; su; make install), under /usr/local.

No, you need to "make altinstall", not "make install", to prevent having
python2.3 overwrite the system's built-in python symlink.

Although the advice above (as amended) is correct, it's also incredibly
cryptic for someone who is not a Linux sysadmin guru!  Try reading the
README file in the Python source toplevel directory for somewhat more
helpful directions.

-- 
I don't actually read my hotmail account, but you can replace hotmail with
excite if you really want to reach me.





From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 16:14:05 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:14:05 GMT
Subject: returning unordered keyword arguments from a function (WAS: Are
 multiple return values really harmful?)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6562.1100809213.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.6511.1100727971.5135.python-list@python.org>	<8ef9bea6.0411180831.e44ae56@posting.google.com>	<e47nd.630528$8_6.343583@attbi_s04>
	<mailman.6562.1100809213.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xg8nd.107946$HA.41832@attbi_s01>

Fernando Perez wrote:
> Steven Bethard wrote:
[snip]
>>>>> r = object(year=2004, month=11, day=18)
>>>>> r.day, r.month, r.year
>>
>>(18, 11, 2004)
> 
> 
> Given that the necessary class is literally a 3-liner, I'm not sure a language
> extension is truly needed:
> 
> In [1]: class bunch:
>    ...:     def __init__(self,**kw):
>    ...:         self.__dict__.update(kw)
>    ...:

How do you think I generated the code above? ;)

Even at 3 lines, do you really want to rewrite those every time you need 
this functionality?  I don't see what would really be wrong with at 
least putting this in a stdlib module somewhere (collections perhaps?)

Heck, I can write a set class in only a few more lines:

 >>> class set(object):
... 	def __init__(self, seq):
... 		self._dict = dict.fromkeys(seq)
... 	def __iter__(self):
... 		return iter(self._dict)
... 	def add(self, item):
... 		self._dict[item] = None
... 		
 >>> s = set([1, 3, 3, 5, 2, 7, 5])
 >>> list(s)
[1, 2, 3, 5, 7]
 >>> s.add(2)
 >>> list(s)
[1, 2, 3, 5, 7]
 >>> s.add(8)
 >>> list(s)
[1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 8]

But I don't think that's a good reason for not having a builtin set class.

The idea of a 'bunch', 'record', 'struct', 'object with attributes', 
etc. gets asked for at least a couple times a month.  It might be nice 
if that functionality was available *somewhere*, whether it be in object 
(not likely, I believe) or in a new class, e.g. 'record'.

On the other hand, I usually find that in the few places where I have 
used a record like this, I eventually replace the struct with a real 
class...

Steve


From mr_ravi_patil at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 17 02:59:14 2004
From: mr_ravi_patil at yahoo.com (SoftwareTester)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 23:59:14 -0800
Subject: pyserial --  setting DTR_CONTROL_HANDSHAKE
Message-ID: <5a050156.0411162359.42a38075@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I am a Python beginner trying to write to Windows Com port. 

I am using the pyserial Python Serial Port Extension
Url: http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/
Version: 2.1


I am trying to port an existing C program to Python.
The C program sets the following parameters.

// 2400, None, 8, 1
dcb.BaudRate = CBR_2400;
dcb.Parity = NOPARITY;
dcb.ByteSize = 8;
dcb.StopBits = ONESTOPBIT;

// Handshake
dcb.fDtrControl = DTR_CONTROL_HANDSHAKE;


I am not sure how to set DTR.
There is a documented method called 
setDTR(level=1) # set DTR line to specified logic level

My Python Code:

>>>import serial
>>>ser = serial.Serial(0) # open first serial port
>>>ser.baudrate = 2400 # set baud rate

how to set DTR to Windows equivalent of  DTR_CONTROL_HANDSHAKE.


From agriff at tin.it  Wed Nov  3 01:36:55 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 06:36:55 GMT
Subject: general class functions
References: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>
	<kj9eo0hkjem9pbj3pvdbpea6gpl06ighsj@4ax.com>
	<a76ba315.0411021009.46b06459@posting.google.com>
	<4187d1b6$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <5tugo0h6eod98l4l01gau1risdogl58i6v@4ax.com>

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:31:42 -0500, Kent Johnson <kent3737 at yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Instead of
>   return self.__dict__[name]
>you need
>   raise AttributeError, name
>
>self.__dict__ has already been tried before __getattr__ is called, you 
>don't need to try it again.

I hope one day I'll understand python lookup :-)

...

Would it be worse or better to make Library a new-style
class, using __getattribute__ instead of __getattr__ and
defaulting to object.__getattribute__(self,name) in the
"else" part ?

Andrea


From hgk at et.uni-magdeburg.de  Fri Nov 12 03:23:02 2004
From: hgk at et.uni-magdeburg.de (Hans Georg Krauthaeuser)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:23:02 +0100
Subject: pickle: huge memory consumption *during* pickling
In-Reply-To: <slrncp7bve.tb7.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
References: <cn00o5$r0j$1@fuerst.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<slrncp7bve.tb7.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <cn1rt4$agn$1@fuerst.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>

Nick Craig-Wood wrote:
> ....
> You've probably got lots of instances of a single class...  We managed

You are right. My data are class objects taken from a c++ class (via swig).

> to 1/3 the memory requirments in a similar situation by using new
> style classes (inherit from object) and defining __slots__ for just a
> single class!

Interesting, I didn't noticed __slots__ before.

In the swig-wrapper I found that my object are inherited from _object 
and that is

import types
try:
     _object = types.ObjectType
     _newclass = 1
except AttributeError:
     class _object : pass
     _newclass = 0
del types

So, this are new style classes.

Now, I have to see how to get swig to generate __slots__ ...

Thanks,

Hans Georg


From syd.diamond at gmail.com  Fri Nov 26 01:06:28 2004
From: syd.diamond at gmail.com (syd)
Date: 25 Nov 2004 22:06:28 -0800
Subject: general class functions
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6792.1101408664.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6792.1101408664.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1101449188.101662.118080@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

> Not without seeing some code. Show us your Container class and one of
> the callers.

Well, huh.  I started to put an example minimal piece of code together,
and I could not reproduce the problem.  An hour of taking things out of
my current code one by one until it worked made me realize my error.

Right now, I check for attribute validity using a getBlankItem() that
uses a string specific to that Container instance and the globals()
directory .  When the general Container class is imported, the
globals() in the Container.getBlankItem() will no longer find the class
that the string refers to.  And unfortunately, the way I had it set up,
it did not give an error there, so I had a hard time tracking that
down.

I guess the lesson is that globals() in an imported class is not the
same as globals() in the main file.



From ncoghlan at email.com  Sat Nov 27 07:54:32 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 22:54:32 +1000
Subject: Automatic reformatting of triple-quoted strings (was Re: Few
 things)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6833.1101512256.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <5c882bb5.0411251641.6177ee9d@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6833.1101512256.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41a87908$0$25761$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> The idea is as follows:
> 
> 1) triple-quote strings will automatically be reformatted to remove
> any extra space on the left side due to indentation. The indentation
> will be controled by the position of the leftmost non-space character
> in the string.
> 
> 2) raw triple-quoted strings will *NOT* be reformatted. Any space to
> the left side is deemed to be significant.
> 
> This is indeed a quite simple idea, with the potential to simplify
> some code. It will also encourage people to write triple-quoted
> strings for long strings, which is something that people usually do to
> avoid the extra space.

I'd be +0, since the behaviour you suggest is what I generally want when I use 
long strings. However, I almost always set up such strings as module globals, so 
the indenting issue doesn't usually bother me in practice. . .

If the compatibility problems prove to be a deal breaker (i.e. someone somewhere 
actually wants the extra space, and adding an 'r' character to the source for 
compatibility with a new Python release is too much of a burden), then another 
alternative is a new string type character (e.g. 't' for 'trimmed', to use the 
PEP 257 terminology. 'i' for 'indented' would also work - the source code for 
the string literal is indented, so that indenting should be removed from the 
resulting string).

The argument against the inevitable suggestion of just using a function (as you 
already do) is that a function call doesn't work for a docstring.

Cheers,
Nick.


From ajsiegel at optonline.net  Tue Nov  2 19:51:51 2004
From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 19:51:51 -0500
Subject: FW: [Edu-sig] re: Whither PyGeo
Message-ID: <0I6K00MWKVQF0Y@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>

I'm forwarding this here with the hope of getting a wider audience for my
offer of a (modest) $ bounty for help in crossplatform packaging for PyGeo.

PyGeo whereabouts are:

http://home.netcom.com/~ajs

One has to read through my promo of PyGeo below to get to the bounty offer
mention near the end.

I have not done a release of PyGeo in nearly 2 years, though I have been
fiddling (and hopefully improving) it constantly - and doing something
(though not enough) about docs.  With the effort having been extended, I
hate to put it out amateurishly packaged.  Which is all I am currently
capable of - and see nothing on the horizon indicating I will have the time
to undertake that particular learning curve.  

So I am looking for something like professional help.

Art

-----Original Message-----
From: edu-sig-bounces at python.org [mailto:edu-sig-bounces at python.org] On
Behalf Of Arthur
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 4:14 AM
To: edu-sig at python.org
Subject: [Edu-sig] re: Whither PyGeo


John writes

>I've never had the opportunity to play with PyGeo, partly because
there 
>wasn't a particular need to, and partly because I was waiting for it to 
>arrive at a newer release state. However, there is a *possibility* (not 
>yet even a probability) that I'll be able to begin teaching beginning 
>Python programming to middle schoolers either in Feb. or Sept. 2005. 
>So, I'm casting about for materials to use, and PyGeo would definitely 
>be on my list if Arthur were able to whip it into shape for release. 

Not if.  When :)

>So, this message is meant primarily as one of encouragement to make a 
>newer version available that incorporates all of its improvements. But 
>also I'm wondering if there are any underlying issues with PyGeo, as 
>it's evolved, that would benefit from a discussion here? (I guess I'm 
>primarily wondering about its suitability for younger beginning 
>programmers, its API, etc.)

Its API is simple enough.  

Its educational value for younger beginning programmers less clear.

On the plus side, I think it gives them a context they may already have some

grounding in, in which to experiment.  But that context is geometry - which,

incredibly, some folks might find yucky. 

I would argue that geometry has some legs as foundational in education. And 
that until someone comes up with something convincing as the foundational
educational 
concept of the New Millenium, that we might give some serious consideration
to 
sticking with the classics. 

And I would argue that there is a connection between geometry, as the
classical foundation of logical reasoning,  and programming, as its (or "a")
productive modern incarnation, that is profound and intriguing - and that
while young folks might not explicitly understand the connection  I am
trying to make here, I am hoping that at some level they might *feel* it.

With the added self-referential factor, that in working on computer screens,
one is working within the land of applied geometry/programming.

I'm an old Literature major. For things to work, they need to work at
different levels, simultaneously.  

That said, all that is fully clear about PyGeo's educational value, and said
with any confidence, is not dissimilar to that of many such projects.  The
educational value of building it has been profound.  
But I've hogged that, I'm afraid.

FWIW, the greatest challenge I face it getting it out there in a way
its potential might be fairly explored are cross platform packaging and
distribution issues.

I won't go into the details of what I see as the issues.

I will say/announce that I have decided to take a clue from Mark
Shuttleworth and offer a $ bounty to anyone with the right background who
would willing to assist me here.

Anyone interested in discussing this can contact me either through the list
or privately at ajsiegel at optonline.com.

Thanks John for giving me the opportunity to expand a bit on a favorite
topic.

Art

























_______________________________________________
Edu-sig mailing list
Edu-sig at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig



From michi at triodia.com  Mon Nov 22 16:54:24 2004
From: michi at triodia.com (Michi Henning)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:54:24 GMT
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Ice 2.0 released
Message-ID: <ketod.45140$K7.3294@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Hi,

we've just released Ice 2.0 with quite a lot of new features:

- new language mappings for Visual Basic and Python

- a new light-weight and super-efficient firewall

- a streaming API that allows you to control the encoding and decoding of
  objects in arbitrary formats (or the native Ice format)

- dynamic invocation and dispatch interfaces, so you can write generic
  clients and server that do not require compile-time type knowledge

- new chapters in the documentation for the new features

- numerous other improvements and bug fixes

See http://www.zeroc.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=987
for more info.

Cheers,

Michi.

--
Michi Henning              Ph: +61 4 1118-2700
ZeroC, Inc.                http://www.zeroc.com



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Nov 26 18:20:55 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:20:55 -0800
Subject: dictionary initialization
In-Reply-To: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
References: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <10qfebvb8ln513e@corp.supernews.com>

Weiguang Shi wrote:

>Personally, I think
>
>    a[i]++
>
>in awk is much more elegant than
>
>    if i in a: a[i] += 1
>    else: a[i] = 1
>  
>

As others have pointed out, the type of an uninitialized a[i] is 
ambiguous, and that Python doesn't want to try to guess what type to use 
based only on the type of the RHS.  Depending on what, exactly, the RHS 
*is*, there may be multiple likely types for the LHS.  The case where 
the RHS is an integer is one of the clearer special cases, but Python's 
default behavior should be the same regardless of what type the RHS is, 
and it doesn't seem safe to assume that the LHS type should always be 
equivalent to the RHS type.

But there's another level of ambiguity here.  In many cases, throwing an 
error for an uninitialized dict item *is* the correct behavior.  Suppose 
I've got an ascii string representing a DNA gene sequence, and I want to 
calculate the relative prevalence of various bases.  It's pretty 
straightforward to go through and count up how many of each character 
there are, using a dict -- but if somehow a letter other than A, G, C, 
or T is present, I don't want it to pass silently.  It's something very 
strange/wrong, and I want to be notified immediately.

Now, in the counting that *you* happen to be doing, assuming that a 
default value is desirable works.  But that's not universal.  And it's 
easier to use one of various methods to create a default value (as Bengt 
Richter demonstrated) than it is to consistently check that the dict 
keys are limited to a particular set of desired keys.

Also, it's not that hard to subclass dict to provide the functionality 
that you want.  I expect that googling on the c.l.p archives would turn 
up more than one recipe for a dict with default values.  (There may even 
be such a thing in the Python Cookbook.)  I know I've seen such things 
posted here (though not recently).

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From danperl at rogers.com  Thu Nov 18 23:37:26 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:37:26 -0500
Subject: Class Encapsulation Errors in Python 2.3.3
References: <47f7cc78.0411182007.1b77c2b1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <nrudnceoVIIV5QDcRVn-hw@rogers.com>

Please post the implementation of the Album class.  The problem is coming 
probably from the way the Songs list is defined or initialized.  That is, 
the definition or the initialization probably cause the list object that is 
assigned to Songs to be shared by all the Album instances.  But I (and 
likely no one else) can say exactly what the problem is without seing the 
code.

Dan

"Tim Henderson" <tim.tadh at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:47f7cc78.0411182007.1b77c2b1 at posting.google.com...
> Hi i have some errors in my code that i can't find the reason for here
> is the error
>
> i have 3 classes:
> -Song
> -Album
> -Artist
>
> Song has 3 pieces of data with getter and setter meathods:
> -Name | i.e. song name
> -Album
> -Artist
>
> Album has 3 pieces of data:
> -Songs | a list of Song() instances
> -Name
> -Artist
>
> Artist has 4 pieces of Data:
> -Name
> -Songs | a list of Song() instances
> -Albums |a list of Album() instances
> -unknownAlbum | the album a song is put into if it doesn't have an
> album
>
>
> now the problem arises when i add songs into multiple albums like
> this:
> Code:
> ------------------------------------------------
> s = Song('song 1')
> s2 = Song('song 2')
>
> a = Album('hey')
> a.addSong(s)
> ab = Album('yeayea')
> print a
> print ab
> ab.addSong(s2)
> print
> print a
> print ab
> ------------------------------------------------
> Output:
> ************************************************
> hey song 1    hey   |
> yeayea song 1    hey   |
>
> hey song 1    hey   | song 2    yeayea   |
> yeayea song 1    hey   | song 2    yeayea   |
> ************************************************
>
> the "hey" album has "song 1" as it is suppose to however so does
> "yeayea" even though when "song 1" was put in the album "hey" 'yeayea'
> didn't even exist yet.
>
> Why is this happening. I checked the actually memory refrence for each
> instance and they are different, these supposidly isolated different
> intances of clases are linked for some inexplicable reason.
>
> Does any one know why this is happening and how i can fix it?
>
> cheers
> Tim Henderson 




From news5 at bennymo.ch  Tue Nov 16 14:57:41 2004
From: news5 at bennymo.ch (Benny Mohr)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:57:41 +0100
Subject: get function arguments
Message-ID: <cndm3b$lin$1@newshispeed.ch>

I have a simple function

def myFunc(a,b,c='default'):
    ...

How can I get the list of argumens of this function?

Benny


From eddie at replicon.com  Fri Nov 19 14:29:10 2004
From: eddie at replicon.com (Eddie Parker)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:29:10 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20041119192934.EB3A81E4009@bag.python.org>

Best way to discourage visual basic knock offs, is to try and use visual
basic, in my opinion.

</subjective>

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+eddie=replicon.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+eddie=replicon.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Skip
Montanaro
Sent: November 19, 2004 11:51 AM
To: Neal D. Becker
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'


My guess is Microsoft hopes to discourage Visual Basic knock-offs.  Claim 2
clearly seems to restrict the scope to BASIC.

Seems pretty slimy.

Skip
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Nov 29 00:22:00 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:22:00 -0800
Subject: network programming without goto
In-Reply-To: <20041126002810.96403.qmail@web41522.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041125092843.FA17.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<20041126002810.96403.qmail@web41522.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041128211239.FA48.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


kent sin <kentsin at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> But that will make too many uncessary connection:
> 
>    one connection can do a number of search before it
> got timeout, so I want to do as many search as
> possible before it got timeout. I think the connection
> cost is high here, and it also got some load on the
> remote servers which I do not want.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion.

Indeed it will do many connections, but you weren't terribly specific
with what you wanted.

In any case, if you want a total of 3 failures under any situation, try
the following.

queries = [buildquery(t) for t in targets]

tries = 3
for host in hostlist:
    q = iter(queries)
    try:
        cq = q.next()
    except StopIteration:
        continue
    for i in xrange(tries):
        conn = zoom.Connecton(host.ip, host.port)
        fail = 0
        while 1:
            try:
                r = conn.query(cq)
                #deal with r
                cq = q.next()
            except StopIteration:
                break
            except:
                fail = 1
                break
        if not fail:
            break
    try:
        conn.close()
    except:
        pass


 - Josiah


> 
> --- Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > kent sin <kentsin at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > Please help:
> > > 
> > > I was really blocked here. without goto I really
> > do
> > > not known how to do it.
> > > 
> > > The problem is to use PyZ3950 to consult a lists
> > of
> > > hosts and for each of them to search for a list of
> > > targets. Since the network is undetermined, there
> > were
> > > always some exceptions: I would like to allow it
> > to
> > > retry for 3 times. Moreover, during the query
> > process,
> > > the conn will timeout (set by the remote server).
> > > Reconnect is preferred before fail the current
> > search,
> > > but the reconnect may fail even if the first try
> > is
> > > succeed.
> > 
> > The trick with getting it to do what you want it to
> > do is to understand
> > what you want it to do.
> > 
> > Being that I can't understand what you want it to
> > do, the following is
> > just an interpretation of what I think you want it
> > to do.  If you want
> > it to do something different, then be clearer with
> > what you want it to
> > do and ask again.  Note that depending on the
> > semantics of your
> > connection, this could probably be made more
> > efficient.
> > 
> > 
> > queries = [buildquery(t) for t in targets]
> > 
> > for host in hostlist:
> >     tries_remaining = 3 #tunable parameter
> >     for q in queries:
> >         for i in xrange(tries_remaining+1):
> >             if i == tries_remaining:
> >                 break
> >             try:
> >                 conn = zoom.Connecton(host.ip,
> > host.port)
> >                 r = conn.search(q)
> >                 conn.close()
> >                 break
> >             except:
> >                 continue
> >             
> >             #handle result r
> >             break
> >             
> >         tries_remaining -= i
> >         
> >         if tries_remaining == 0:
> >             break
> > 
> >  - Josiah
> > 
> > 



From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Wed Nov 17 18:53:45 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 18:53:45 -0500
Subject: don't NaN & infinities hide FP errors
References: <940ee3e8.0411170130.31d247@posting.google.com>
	<cnf963$ioc$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<mailman.6478.1100692586.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qnklld02fsm.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

Gandalf <gandalf at geochemsource.com> writes:

>> Just try it. 1./0. raises a ZeroDivisionError, math.log(0) raises a
>> math range error, and math.log(-1) yields nan.
>
> This is not true. On UNIX systems, math.log(-1) will be NaN.

Not true; all the linux boxes and a Tru64 system I've just tried raise
ValueError. However, the three versions of Python I have on my Mac OS X
system give nan.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From john_bradbury at skipthistalk21.com  Tue Nov  2 04:55:51 2004
From: john_bradbury at skipthistalk21.com (John Bradbury)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:55:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: lrwp + xitami
Message-ID: <cm7lj7$oci$1@hercules.btinternet.com>

Has anyone tried retrieving cookies using lrwp.  I can see the cookies have
been set on the client machine, but they do not appear when you do
request.env['HTTP_COOKIE'].  Is there another way of retrieving cookies
when you use Xiami/LRWP?
-- 
John Bradbury


From christian.ergh at gmail.com  Fri Nov 26 07:24:49 2004
From: christian.ergh at gmail.com (Christian Ergh)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 13:24:49 +0100
Subject: hi...about HTMLparser
In-Reply-To: <761727b3.0410080221.68f6c781@posting.google.com>
References: <761727b3.0410070953.44f66d23@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4526.1097176375.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<761727b3.0410080221.68f6c781@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <co77ab$gsh$02$1@news.t-online.com>

mike wrote:
> Andreas Kostyrka <andreas at kostyrka.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.4526.1097176375.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> 
>>On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 10:53:35AM -0700, mike wrote:
>>
>>>regards:
>>>
>>>(1)could I use HTMLparser to delete some element 
>>>   and the element's content from a file?
>>
>>Yes. If it makes sense depends upon your needs ;)
>>
>>
>>>(2)Is there a good document about how I can use the HTMLparser?
>>
>>See: http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.4/
>>
>>Andreas
> 
> thank you anyway:
> 
> what I would like to ask is HTMLparser in Java language.
> You mentioned is in C language edition.
> 
> Did I mistake your post?:P
> 
> 
> May god bless you all.
> 
> best wishes
A little warning about Html-Parser, though. It seems to be a little bit 
unstable, when the Html-code is too deeply nested, or to broken. You 
will not find a lot of valid html-code on the net.


From ncoghlan at email.com  Fri Nov 26 05:40:02 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:40:02 +1000
Subject: Few things
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6799.1101448149.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <5c882bb5.0411251641.6177ee9d@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6799.1101448149.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41a70800$0$25763$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
>>A command like this:
>>print 0x9f, 054135
>>This prints an hex and octal. I think the syntax for the hex is a bit
>>ugly; and the syntax for the octal looks just dangerous (and wrong) to
>>me.
> 
> 
> Internally those values are Python integers, there would need to be a
> special way to tag integers as being originally hex or octal.  Or the
> pyc would need to store the fact that it was originally one of those
> other methods specifically for the print statement.

I believe the OP was objecting to the spelling of "this integer literal is hex" 
and "this integer literal is octal".

Python stole these spellings directly from C. Saying it's ugly without 
suggesting an alternative isn't likely to result in developers taking any 
action, though. (Not that that is particularly likely on this point, regardless)

If the spelling really bothers the OP, the following works:

   print int("9f", 16), int("54135", 8)

That's harder to type, is a lot slower at run-time and uses more memory, though.

Cheers,
Nick.


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Tue Nov 16 08:35:21 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:35:21 -0500
Subject: Pictograms and Python
In-Reply-To: <cncrmi$avo$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <81a41dd.0411160125.1aa4c7c1@posting.google.com>
	<cncrmi$avo$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <419A0219.9080604@bellsouth.net>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

>Lad wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Hi,
>>did anyone try to convert a Pictogram ( = a picture with text) to text?
>>Lad
>>    
>>
>
>>From this and your last post I assume that you want to perform some 
>registration stuff that is protected against scripts like yours using
>images with distorted characters that a human beeing can decipher and
>enter, but that are hard to identify using OCR techniques. They're called a
>CAPTCHA.
>
>As these protections are there for a good reason and I personally loathe
>spam, I hope you neither succeed nor get help from this community.
>
>In the (I believe unlikely) case of your plans to automate access to that
>site are of good intentions, I'm sure you can make a deal with the people
>running that service so that you can access it through some RPC mechanism.
>
>  
>
Diez,

I almost jumped you for your harsh words to poor Lad....until I started 
digging through past posts and found this (from google groups):

###

From: *Lad* 
<http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&q=author:export%40hope.cz+> 
(export at hope.cz <mailto:export%40hope.cz>)
Subject: Re: SMTP question
View: Complete Thread (5 articles) 
<http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&threadm=81a41dd.0410180801.7cee89bb%40posting.google.com&rnum=7&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dlad%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*%26c2coff%3D1%26scoring%3Dd%26selm%3D81a41dd.0410180801.7cee89bb%2540posting.google.com%26rnum%3D7> 

Original Format 
<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=81a41dd.0410180801.7cee89bb%40posting.google.com&output=gplain> 


Newsgroups: comp.lang.python 
<http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&group=comp.lang.python>
Date: 2004-10-18 09:01:04 PST

lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited) wrote in message news:<20041017043525.18077.00005365 at mb-m03.aol.com> <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20041017043525.18077.00005365%40mb-m03.aol.com>...
> To Josiah, sorry you're getting this twice, didn't realize you responded both
> in the mailgroup, and by email.  But to others, that didn't help, well, it did
> as far as me formating for a list, but I'm still not getting into Yahoo.  For
> my smtp server smtp.mail.yahoo.com, I just pasted directly from my Outlook
> settings which have always worked fine.  When I use s.login('bossierbossman',
> 'password') I get something like SMTP AUTH extension not supported by server,
> and when I just have s.connect() I get socket.error: (10061, 'Connection
> refused')

I also had a problem to find a mail server that could relay my emails.
So I do it this way: for a recepient's address  I find his mailserver
and send the email directly to it. No need to have a mail server
*LAd*

###

If our little Lad is a mad spammer, may he receive an incurable and 
particularly nasty virus (computer virus, of course) and may his inbox 
be flooded with ads for genital enhancements, MLM, and college diplomas 
all his days!

And, <insert CYA clause here> in the (I agree with your "unlikely" 
assessment) case that he wants to do something 
legitimate....well.....good luck and take Diez's advice.


Jeremy
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From hugonz at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 16 11:16:08 2004
From: hugonz at hotmail.com (Hugo Gonz?lez)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 08:16:08 -0800
Subject: Redirecting system output quietly
References: <mailman.6395.1100563802.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<XIdmd.44547$QJ3.18327@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <abf57198.0411160816.26d192c9@posting.google.com>

There's an even easier way to do this. You can use the "commands"
module:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-commands.html

This is easier and faster than using popen, and will allow you to get
exit status (os.popen* won't let you)

Hugo


> > Hi,
> >  I am a newbie here. I want to know how to redirect os.system("ls -af")
> > to a string variable without it barfing the answer of ls -af on the
> > screen.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Madhusudhanan.C


From Python at IvoNet.nl  Wed Nov 10 09:39:42 2004
From: Python at IvoNet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:39:42 +0100
Subject: ConfigParser
References: <nrr3p0d03b1p2pcvk7irgbm1k0nurndehj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <8g84p0597pvl6ag102ejc1v4rvaockp0an@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:39:27 GMT, Manlio Perillo
<NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it> wrote:

>Regards.
>
>Since sections in CongiParser files are delimited by [ and ], why
>there is not an escape (and unescape) function for escaping
>&, [, and ] characters to &amp;, &lbrack; and &rbrack; ?
>
>
>
>
>Thanks   Manlio Perillo

just subclass from ConfigParser and add the functionality youself

somthing like:
=== cut here ===
from ConfigParser import ConfigParser
class MyConfigParser(ConfigParser):
  def get(self, section, option, raw=False, vars=None):    # override
the get() method of super
    """get(section, option, [raw=False], [vars=None]) --> String"""
    repl = [('&lbrack;','['),
            ('&rbrack;',']'),
           ]                                               # extent as
much as U like
    t = ConfigParser.get(self, section, option, raw, vars) # call the
get of super
    for x,y in repl: t=t.replace(x,y)                      # do the
replace stuff
    return t

if __name__=="__main__":
  """test"""
  import os
  open('test.$$$','w').write('[test]\nopt1=Hello&lbrack;Ivo
Woltring&rbrack;\n')
  ini = MyConfigParser()
  ini.read('test.$$$')
  print ini.get('test', 'opt1')
  os.unlink('test.$$$')
=== End Cut ===

you can ofcourse do this in reverse for the write function so as not
to have to write the &lbrack; etc. yourself.

Cheerz,
Ivo Woltring


From me at privacy.net  Fri Nov  5 08:00:25 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Dan Sommers)
Date: 05 Nov 2004 08:00:25 -0500
Subject: How do you execute an OS X application (bundle) from Python?
References: <1gmrrsj.7ljqd6f3sgkfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<m24qk4ttl2.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>
	<1gms4py.c7p5cjeee3clN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <m2u0s4sb6e.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>

On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:35:31 +0100,
aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

> Dan Sommers <me at privacy.net> wrote:
>    ...
>> > "Spawning an external editor and waiting until the user is done using it
>> > before proceeding" is an important architectural pattern (well examined
>> > and analyzed in Raymond's "Art of Unix Programming", like many others).
>> 
>> Tty based Unix programs, yes; modern GUIs, no.  The usual parent-child
>> relationship between application and editor is nowhere to be found these
>> days.  Consider this scenario:

> And yet, as a user, I vastly prefer those apps which, even if they have
> their own GUIs, still let me edit stuff with my text-editor of choice,
> say GVIM or Emacs, even when that editor, too, is a "modern GUI" app.
> Yes, the process relationship may be murkier and therefore it can be
> harder for the driving app to find out when the user is done editing
> that file -- nevertheless, I can be SO much more productive with my
> editor of choice than with whatever the driving app may choose to use
> for text editing, that, as a user, I still consider that important.

Agreed.  My editor of choice these days is emacsclient.

[ typical multiple-user-GUI-application interaction scenario snipped ]

>> 4.  While Software Update is thrashing, the user remembers that the
>> configuration file is open but has already been saved, and closes it
>> by clicking on its window's dimmed close button.  TextEdit processes
>> the event and closes the window without further ado.
>> 
>> At which point does the application know that the user is finished
>> editing the file?

> The application should somehow be notified after point (4); any
> earlier time would be inappropriate.

Well, yes, but does TextEdit and/or Mac OS provide that functionality?
Does KDE or GNOME?  Those are honest questions; I haven't written a
native Mac application since OS9, and I've never written a KDE- or
GNOME- aware application.

>> > Ideally it should be the external editor of choice for the user;
>> > foisting vi on poor innocent machistas just because it's easy to wait
>> > for THAT and hard to wait for TextEdit would seem mean;-)...
>> 
>> Speaking as a long time Unix hacker *and* long time Mac user, Forcing
>> machistas to use a text editor instead of a GUI to edit config files
>> would seem mean.  ;-)

> Speaking as a long time Unix lover who's reasonably recently falled in
> love with the Mac, just like _many_ others these days, *because*
> MacOSX *is* now a Unix -- I'd rather keep the option of editing
> textfiles with a text editor, not be forced to use somebody else's
> idea of how that particular file should be edited, thankyouverymuch
> ...

Let me try it this way:  Is a "text file" (or a "sequence of bytes or
characters"), edited by hand with a text editor, the best interface to
configuration information?  I must admit that I'm impressed by the
amount of point-and-click configuration I can do with KDE; I never have
to look at a config *file* unless I want to (but I can look at them if
there's a problem, which seems to be the best of both worlds).

Yes, some configurations are complex, and I *detest* the number of mouse
clicks required by some of the associated interfaces (I'd much rather
type [part of] the name of a directory than "navigate" a bunch of little
disclosure triangles up and down the file system).  But I now believe
that it's only a matter of time before we discover the right GUI
paradigms to edit even these sorts of things (although I never used to
think this way).

> Developers of Mac apps, mostly -- and therefore developers of
> infrastructure that runs on Macs to help apps -- apparently haven't
> yet caught on to this reasonably-new bunch of users, me included, who
> see MacOSX as just what it IS today -- a BSD with a neat GUI on top
> (and a Mach underneath, sure, but that's hardly ever relevant;-).
> Fine, I guess we'll stick with fink and darwinports and the like.  But
> (unless I'm being paid for it) I'm not going to write an application
> that I would never want to use myself.  So, if the only way to shell
> out to an editor is to write commandline apps instead of GUIs, and use
> /usr/bin/vi (which IS, after all, one editor Apple that is bundling,
> to which we can easily shell out), then that's going to be what we do
> -- until and unless shelling out to TextEdit or BBEdit or whatever is
> just as easy.

There's a command line BBEdit wrapper somewhere; Bare Bones would seem a
likely candidate to provide the second half of shelling out to them
(i.e., letting the parent app know when the user closes the file's
window in BBEdit).

> Alex

Regards,
Dan

-- 
Dan Sommers
<http://www.tombstonezero.net/dan/>
Never play leapfrog with a unicorn.


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Nov  3 19:35:01 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 16:35:01 -0800
Subject: printer delusion
In-Reply-To: <8meid.258989$35.12098959@news4.tin.it>
References: <9dbid.257879$35.12024814@news4.tin.it>
	<Q7udndLPNc1k2BTcRVn-gg@comcast.com>
	<8meid.258989$35.12098959@news4.tin.it>
Message-ID: <10oiu3qqvutv1b4@corp.supernews.com>

Mario wrote:

>>"Larry Bates" <lbates at syscononline.com> wrote:
>>When you are new to something you may want to consider
>>going slow about criticism.  Quite often what you want
>>exists and you are unaware of it at the beginning.
>>    
>>
>
>Hi, thanks for the answer, mine was not a real criticism, was more a
>delusion to see that a powerful thing such as Python needs external apps for
>making a serious printing task, instead of having a set of built in
>functions that handle it, no matter what os you are in [...]
>  
>

The problem is that different OSes have greatly different ideas of what 
is involved in sending something to a printer.  It is not a simple task 
to print in a cross-platform way -- methods of finding/naming printers, 
determining printer capabilities, formatting data to send to the 
printer, etc., bear no relation to each other.  In situations like this, 
the Python team have a tradition of punting -- leaving it up to others 
to develop libraries for the needed functionality.  This is very much 
like the situation with GUI libraries.

As it turns out, nobody (AFAIK) has developed a real stand-alone printer 
library for Python.  In most cases, it's not that difficult to use one 
of the GUI toolkits that includes printer support, or deferring printing 
through the use of Reportlab and PDFs, or using an OS-specific system 
command for basic text printing (e.g. 'start notepad /p', or 'lpr', etc).

On the one hand, I can certainly see that there's a niche for just the 
sort of tool you're asking about -- something that'll do fairly simple 
styled-text printing in a cross-platform way.  On the other hand, I 
certainly don't have the time or skill to develop such a library, and 
I'm not even certain that it's reasonably possible.  I'm not sure that 
there *is* a way to do styled-text printing, on either Windows or Linux, 
without doing one of (a) working through the GUI subsystem, in which 
case you might as well install wxPython or equivalent instead of 
duplicating half of their code, or (b) using external tools to create 
device-independent data files which can then be printed by another 
external tool (i.e. PDFs or postscript), or (c) using printer-specific 
control sequences which would be a nightmare to make even remotely 
comprehensive.

It wouldn't be too hard to write a library that would let you write 
plain, unstyled text to the current system's default printer... but 
then, the benefit of having such a library is pretty slight, so why 
bother?  It's also easy enough to do this as a part of the application, 
rather than in a library.

In short, while it *sounds* simple to say "just dump this stuff to the 
printer", the reality is that it's not a very simple thing to do at all, 
and difficult problems may have multiple best answers depending on the 
specific circumstances.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Nov  8 03:51:38 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 09:51:38 +0100
Subject: interning strings
References: <418e1e69$0$15438$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
	<cmldpr$p0q$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<418e69df$0$180$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <cmnc0v$c25$01$1@news.t-online.com>

"Martin v. L?wis" wrote:

> Peter Otten wrote:
>> String constants that are potential attribute names are also interned:
> 
> Peter has explained all this correctly, but this aspect needs some
> stressing perhaps: string *literals* that are potential attribute
> names are also interned. This interning is done in the compiler,
> when the code object is created, so strings not created by the compiler
> are not interned.
> 
> [all strings are "constant", i.e. immutable, so the statement
>   above might have been confusing]

Yes, string "literal", not "constant" is the appropriate term for what I
meant. 
For completeness here is an example demonstrating that names appearing as
"bare words" in the code are interned:

>>> class X:
...     def __getattr__(self, name):
...             return name
...
>>> a = X().this_is_an_attribute
>>> X().this_is_an_attribute is a
True

Peter




From philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net  Thu Nov 11 12:10:00 2004
From: philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:10:00 -0600
Subject: Questions pending - please help
Message-ID: <200411111110.00909.philippecmartin@sbcglobal.net>

Hi,

I have asked two questions lately and have not received any answer yet, so I 
wonder whether the questions are irrelevant, silly, already answered 
for, ...., ?

Please allow me to summarize them:

1) How to I keep my BDB GUI frontend from stepping through all imported python 
libraries when I debug my code ? I am currently ovewriting user_line and 
user_return.

2) Is there a rule of thumb to follow when writing a c extention which will 
ensure backward compatibility with earlier python versions: although I will 
release the source of theses extentions, I cannot expect every customer to 
own a compiler or know how to use it.

Regards,


Philippe



From svenn.are at bjerkem.de  Thu Nov 11 01:48:18 2004
From: svenn.are at bjerkem.de (Svenn Are Bjerkem)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:48:18 +0100
Subject: Help on installing PyQt on MacOSX 10.3 needed
In-Reply-To: <03mkd.1070$yk5.781@fe37.usenetserver.com>
References: <mailman.6138.1099992201.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2vcc6oF2i91ltU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<m_akd.996$yk5.922@fe37.usenetserver.com>
	<cmshkl$idu$1@athen03.muc.infineon.com>
	<03mkd.1070$yk5.781@fe37.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <cmv1vi$kvc$1@athen03.muc.infineon.com>

Kevin Walzer wrote:
> How are you launching your program? Are you using pythonw instead of
> Python? That's how to launch Python GUI programs on Mac OS X.

I have used python until this advice. After reading your advice I tried 
pythonw, but on its commandline I got the same error message that qt is 
not a module. Somewhere down the compile and install pipe a file that 
python need to know that qt is available must have slipped through.

> 
> Do you have the MacPython add-ons installed? These make double-clicking
> on Python apps the easiest way to launch them. See
> http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython/.

Yes, I have installed the MacPython add-ons. So far I haven't 
experimented with it, but I will now.

> 
> Also, my installer package is now live. See
> http://www.wordtech-software.com/pyqt-mac.html. It installs most stuff
> directly, then you just need to run sudo make install in the directories
> for PyQt and Sip. It's a straightforward build, nothing fancy, and works
> fine for me. Perhaps you should give that a try and see if you find it
> helpful.

But I have already installed Mac/qt by myself, and it is working. I 
don't know what will happen if I start to install something on top of 
it. Do you have a possibility to create a version that do not include 
Mac/qt, or will this make no sense?

I hope to get some more time to play with python and qt this evening, 
and then I will check some of your advices.

Thanks,
-- 
Svenn


From jbperez808 at wahoo.com  Thu Nov 11 23:51:16 2004
From: jbperez808 at wahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:51:16 +0800
Subject: Tkinter and WCK (was Re: How come wxPython isn't in the standard
 library?)
In-Reply-To: <8a27e309.0411111404.1b5c2b9c@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2vgfe5F2m8raqU1@uni-berlin.de> <2vgfmeF2m8raqU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<8a27e309.0411111404.1b5c2b9c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2vit85F2kllljU1@uni-berlin.de>

Yes.  It looks like for the most part it will use the
Win32 controls instead of drawing its own.

R.Marquez wrote:

> Question:  Will a tkInter app change appearance when the user changes
> from XP to Classic  Theme (or any other 3rd party theme) accordingly
> as wxPython apps do?
> 
> Will it use the standard Windows File Open/Save dialogs?
> 
> Just wondering, not meaning to be antagonistic.
> 
> -Ruben


From jan.dries at dcube-resource.be  Fri Nov 19 19:21:22 2004
From: jan.dries at dcube-resource.be (Jan Dries)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 01:21:22 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <10psqa2c5o4vr19@corp.supernews.com>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>	<cnlgv2$vc$1@sea.gmane.org>	<mailman.6616.1100893198.5135.python-list@python.org>	<3073pnF2rf1v9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<10psqa2c5o4vr19@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <419E8E02.7080906@dcube-resource.be>

Jeff Shannon wrote:
> Peter Maas wrote:
> 
>> Isnot is semantically equivalent to the inequality operator which is
>> some hundred years old. I doubt that this can be an approved patent,
>> even under the liberal patent US laws.
> 
> Maybe it's not a technically *valid* patent, but that doesn't mean it 
> can't be approved.  The US  patent system has become appallingly lazy 
> about checking for things like prior art and obviousness.  (After all, 
> we're talking about the system that approved a patent on "one-click 
> purchasing"....)

IIRC, a few years ago there was an Australian lawyer who wanted to show 
the ineffectiveness of the patent application procedure in Australia, 
and so he filed a patent application for the invention of some sort of 
rotating device (the type that is more commonly known as "a wheel").
The application was approved.

Jan


From helten0007 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 23 20:16:14 2004
From: helten0007 at yahoo.com (Pete.....)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 02:16:14 +0100
Subject: Transfer data from webpage form to database
References: <41a36ab7$0$23056$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net><m33bz05u3p.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com><41a38f13$0$23068$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net><liNod.42476$Z14.17919@news.indigo.ie>
	<mailman.6735.1101248667.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41a3ccf2$0$29450$ba624c82@nntp06.dk.telia.net>
	<41a3d863$0$29440$ba624c82@nntp06.dk.telia.net>
Message-ID: <41a3de0b$0$29437$ba624c82@nntp06.dk.telia.net>

Hi I got that error debugged but, now there is a new one:
         12 cur.execute('''INSERT INTO persons (persons.name, 
persons.surname, persons.username, persons.password) VALUES %s,%s, %s, %s 
''' %(form['name'].value, form['surname'].value, form['username'].value, 
form['password'].value))

         13

      cur = <pyPgSQL.PgSQL.Cursor instance>, cur.execute = <bound method 
Cursor.execute of <pyPgSQL.PgSQL.Cursor instance>>, form = 
FieldStorage(None, None, [MiniFieldStorage('name...name', 'sa'), 
MiniFieldStorage('password', 'a')]), ].value = [MiniFieldStorage('name', 
's'), MiniFieldStorage('surname', 'd'), MiniFieldStorage('username', 'sa'), 
MiniFieldStorage('password', 'a')]

       /pack/python-2.3.2/lib/python2.3/site-packages/pyPgSQL/PgSQL.py in 
execute(self=<pyPgSQL.PgSQL.Cursor instance>, query='INSERT INTO persons 
(persons.name, persons.surna...ns.username, persons.password) VALUES s,d, 
sa, a ', *parms=())
       3070                 self.conn.__dict__["inTransaction"] = 0

       3071                 self.conn._Connection__closeCursors()

       3072             raise OperationalError, msg

       3073         except InternalError, msg:

       3074             # An internal error occured.  Try to get to a sane 
state.

      global OperationalError = <class libpq.OperationalError>, msg = 
<libpq.OperationalError instance>


OperationalError: ERROR: syntax error at or near "." at character 29
      args = ('ERROR: syntax error at or near "." at character 29\n',)

Cant figure that one out....

Thanks for all help.....




From anthonybaxter at gmail.com  Sun Nov  7 10:33:24 2004
From: anthonybaxter at gmail.com (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 02:33:24 +1100
Subject: pep 336: Make None Callable
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0411040915280.3606@suzi.com.onego.ru>
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>
	<4189b29c.1567244508@news.oz.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0411040915280.3606@suzi.com.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <e69d3ed2041107073331167525@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:20:17 +0300 (MSK), Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote:
> I completely agree. As a note, I can remind a
> PEP 312 -- Simple Implicit Lambda. So with implicit lambda this is just
> 
> :None

"Syntax should not look like grit on my monitor"


From gashton at cmedltd.com  Mon Nov  1 17:04:06 2004
From: gashton at cmedltd.com (Graham Ashton)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 22:04:06 +0000
Subject: Flushing stdout
References: <pan.2004.11.01.21.34.53.44206@cmedltd.com>
	<79yhd.2738$931.2213@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.01.22.04.06.391713@cmedltd.com>

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 16:41:04 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:

> Graham Ashton wrote:
>> Hi. I'm having trouble flushing sys.stdout.
> You aren't actually having trouble flushing sys.stdout at all ...
> 
>> As you'll no doubt gather from the example, the problem I'm really trying
>
> The iteration over the pipe's contents is waiting until it sees the end 
> of the output before it yields anything.

Genius. Thanks Steve, much appreciated. Now I can actually send our users
some feedback...

Graham


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 21 08:21:28 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 14:21:28 +0100
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
	number of output arguments)
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6361.1100470915.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cn95k1$bfq$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6371.1100498345.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnb7hi.1hwbltbftm6c1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6392.1100556222.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbg4k.13z20mj1w1o0ysN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de> <419bbf2a.319309032@news.oz.net>
	<1gnf7n6.1spfeu41yhjcdaN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<419cc167.385418983@news.oz.net>
	<1gnhvee.q8h31aastcqN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<419de7d0.460787817@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <1gnkfht.1vbsxmx1527suN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
   ...
> >I hate to call them 'keyword' arguments when they aren't (check with the
> >keyword module: it will confirm they aren't keywords!-).
   ...
>  TypeError: foo() got an unexpected keyword argument 'z'

Yeah, it's official python terminology, just hateful.

> OTOH, I have been arguing from an untested assumption *<8^P. I didn't
> realize that 'keyword' style named parameter passing could be used
> with the ordinary named parameters!

Ah, OK, couldn't realize that misapprehension on your part.

> >> but for other args I would argue that the caller's
> >> knowledge of formal parameter names really only serves mnemonic purposes.
> >
> >How does that differ from returning a tuple-with-names?
> I guess you are referring to those names' also being for optional use,
> i.e., that you can unpack a tuple-with-names the old fashioned way if you
> want. Hm...

Yes, I took that for granted.

> but that might lead to ambiguities if we are to have automatic name-driven
> unpacking. I.e.,
> 
>     c,a,b = tuple_with_names
> 
> might be different from
> 
>     c,a,b = tuple(tuple_with_names)

It had better not be, otherwise the tuples-with-names returned by
standard library modules such as time, os, resource, would behave
differently from these new tuple_with_names.  IOW, we don't want
name-driven unpacking from these tuples with names -- at least, I most
assuredly don't.  Are these tuple_with_names not iterables?!  Then they
must be unpackable this way like ANY other iterable:

>>> a, b, c = dict(a=23, b=45, c=33)
>>> print a, b, c
a c b

If you're talking about backwards incompatible changes (Python 3000) it
might be good to separate the thread from one which I was participating
in because of potential interest for Python 2.5.  As long as we're not
considering backwards incompatible changes, it's unthinkable to have
iterables that can't be unpacked, even though the results might not be
what you might expect.


> method? Maybe we need to have an explict operator for name-driven
unpacking, e.g.,

Probably some kind of distinguished syntax, though a new
assignment-operator seems way overkill for the tiny benefit.



Alex


From noreal at email.org  Sun Nov  7 08:55:46 2004
From: noreal at email.org (Pythogoras)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 14:55:46 +0100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au> <alGid.47522$HA.14125@attbi_s01>
Message-ID: <cml9h2$q70$02$1@news.t-online.com>


"Bryan" <belred1 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>  also, just for fun, write the following fully
> working python program in java:

> import time
> t = time.time()
> s = open('in.txt').read()
> open('out.txt', 'w').write(s)
> print time.time() - t

OK. I will rewrite it in Java.

///
long t = currentTimeMillis();
tryCopyFile("in.txt","out.txt");
out.println( (currentTimeMillis() - t) / 1000);
///

You lost. The Java-version is shorter!
I didn't count import- and import static-statements
because Eclipse cares about imports automatically.


But maybe you want to have something more fun?
How about that?
    read autoexec.bat,
    sort the lines
    create sorted_autoexec.bak

///
File source = new File("c:/autoexec.bat");
File destination = new File("c:/sorted_autoexec.bak");

String[] lines = readLines(source);
lines = sort(lines);
write(destination,lines);
///

You lost.
You Pythonistas are a bunch of losers.
And your language is dog-slow.
Eeeeeek.

And try to write Eclipse with your Mickey-Mouse-language!

<j>
Pythogoras





From frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com  Thu Nov 25 05:43:09 2004
From: frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com (Frithiof Andreas Jensen)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:43:09 +0100
Subject: Small Database Needed
References: <mailman.6669.1101048884.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<opshtqgtnr38clfj@buktu1>
Message-ID: <co4cos$i9b$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>


"Tim R?nning" <tim.ronning at start.no> wrote in message
news:opshtqgtnr38clfj at buktu1...
> Gadfly!

GadFly - as far as I got with it - does not support SQL relational table
constraints.




From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Fri Nov 19 17:37:06 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:37:06 GMT
Subject: Recursive regexps?
References: <slrncpsqao.m3p.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
	<slrncpsqp4.o00.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <mAund.7821$KQ2.3049@fe2.texas.rr.com>

"Magnus Lie Hetland" <mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no> wrote in message
news:slrncpsqp4.o00.mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no...
> It seems there are a *couple* of (experimental) PCRE features that
> allow recursive matching:
>
>   [T]here is some experimental support for recursive patterns using
>   the non-Perl items (?R), (?number) and (?P>name). Also, the PCRE
>   "callout" feature allows an external function to be called during
>   pattern matching.
>
>   [http://www.slabihoud.de/spampal/pcrecompat.html]
>
> All of these seem pretty useful/neat :-}
>
> -- 
> Magnus Lie Hetland       Fallen flower I see / Returning to its branch
> http://hetland.org       Ah! a butterfly.           [Arakida Moritake]

For those who find regexp strings to be fairly opaque, pyparsing supports
both of these features.
- Recursive grammars are defined using the Forward() parsing class.  See
this snippet from the fourFn.py infix notation parser:

        addop  = plus | minus
        multop = mult | div
        pi    = CaselessLiteral( "PI" )

        expr = Forward()
        factor = ( pi | e | fnumber ).setParseAction( pushFirst ) | ( "(" +
expr.suppress() + ")" )
        term = factor + ZeroOrMore( ( multop + factor ).setParseAction(
pushFirst ) )
        expr << term + ZeroOrMore( ( addop + term ).setParseAction(
pushFirst ) )

expr is defined to be a Forward() instance, and then the recursive contents
are inserted using the "<<" operator.

- Note also the calls to setParseAction().  These represent callouts to
external functions to be invoked during the parsing process.  These external
functions can modify the matched text, update global data structures, or
even supersede the matching rules and raise a ParseException, thereby
cancelling the match.  In this case, the expression elements are being
pushed onto an expression stack, to be recursively evaluated after parsing
is complete.

-- Paul
Download pyparsing at http://pyparsing.sourceforge.net.




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Sun Nov  7 08:02:09 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 14:02:09 +0100
Subject: remove assert statement (Was: Re: PEP new assert idiom)
In-Reply-To: <7xy8hep325.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr7n62t0v.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <Lmjjd.2124$Zl2.96@trndny01>
	<7xy8hep325.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <20041107130209.GA3318@nl.linux.org>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> writes:
> > Why do you need a statement for this?
> > IMO, a plain function will do the trick:
> 
> I do write such functions sometimes, but using a statement is more
> natural.  That's why the assert statement exists, for example.

I think 'assert' being a statement is on Guido's regrets list. exec and
print are on his regrets list: both should have been a function. I
think the same holds for assert, although I'm not sure.

> statement is very great, and I find myself doing it all the time
> thinking I'll clean it up later.  So I think having a statement for
> runtime checking would be in the correct spirit.

In my opinion, assert is almost useless. It can sometimes be useful for
debugging purposes, but beyond that, it isn't. The exception raised by
'assert' is always AssertionError. That is a major disadvantage, because
it's not specific. If a method I'm calling would raise an AssertionError
is some cases, and I want to catch it, I'm catching too much. Creating a
new exception-class and raising that one is better because of this.

I don't see the use of a statement like
"assert isinstance(message, basestring)". It's by far the most common
use of assert: some assertions about the types of the arguments. This is
at best redundant. In the case of warnings.py, it's followed by
re.compile(message, ...). Removing the assertion in this example would result
in three differences:
    - The error raised would be TypeError, not AssertionError. Therefore
      it's more specific and thus easier to catch.
    - The error would me raised by the re module, not warnings module
    - The error would be "first argument must be string or compiled
      pattern" instead of "message must be a string". Therefore, the
      assertion makes it impossible to pass a compiled pattern instead
      of a string.

Duck typing eliminates the use of assert.

In my opinion, assert should be deprecated and then removed in Py3K:
assertions are redundant, unspecific, and conflict with the philosophy
of duck typing and EAFP.

What do others think of this?

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 07/11 13:25:
	12.0?C   wind 3.6 m/s N (57 m above NAP)
-- 
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of
unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the
military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of
misplaced power exists and will persist.
    -Dwight David Eisenhower, January 17, 1961


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Sat Nov  6 11:23:35 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 17:23:35 +0100
Subject: Python OS
References: <mailman.6007.1099756997.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmitq6$q1n$03$1@news.t-online.com>

>   Indeed it does.  But pointing out that you cannot write an OS entirely
>   in Python is about as interesting as pointing out that you cannot write
>   an OS entirely in C.  Accept it.  Move on.  This doesn't mean that it
>   wouldn't be useful to write _most_ of an OS in Python.

The OP asked about prototyping and bootloaders - the latter a clear case
where python can't be used, the former suggesting that he wanted to write
it entirely in python. So I answered his question in the sense I understood
it.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Sun Nov  7 11:45:03 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 7 Nov 2004 16:45:03 GMT
Subject: ?? Modules for GPIB and Ethernet ??
References: <21240387.0411041337.7b17172b@posting.google.com>
	<0-GdnfBAPrZPXBfcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
	<21240387.0411050533.4d145e2a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrncosk48.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On 5 Nov 2004 05:33:49 -0800, Chaser <justinhsia at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<0-GdnfBAPrZPXBfcRVn-sw at powergate.ca>...
>> Chaser wrote:
>> > Just wondering if anyone knows where I can find modules for NI-488.2
>> > GPIB and for a generic ethercard?
...
>> As for the other question: do you actually mean you want a
>> way to talk "raw" Ethernet, or are you just trying to do
>> some networking?
...
> I have an equipment that's controlled through ethernet.  (The control
> program is currently written in C++.)  I guess my really difficulty
> is, how do I send commmands to that devise through ethernet using
> Python?

If this really is raw ethernet, I think your best multi-platform shot would
be a bleeding edge version of libpcap (http://www.tcpdump.org), and a Python
wrapper on top of it. Then make your OS accept the presence of the
interface, but not send or listen to it, and use libpcap to listen and to
inject (new feature in libpcap) ethernet frames.

It /might/ work.  High data rates may be a problem; libpcap with a
relatively slow client might drop packets.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Nov 26 14:52:54 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 14:52:54 -0500
Subject: A lock that times out but doesn't poll
References: <slrncq5vvl.61m.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<kJqpd.5108720$ic1.478957@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <uis7sxu95.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

"Jive" <someone at microsoft.com> writes:

> I did find the MS-Windows timed lock extension though.

That's pretty much what I use when I need them (at least under
Windows).  For example, in a recent application I had a serious need
for low latency events and minimizing CPU while blocked.  Switching
from the threading.Event to a Win32 event object was a big win on both
fronts, and are pretty drop-in in terms of functionality.  I imagine
there is something similar in pthreads, but have not had the need
there yet.

Probably the best way to support this sort of thing in Python itself
is with OS-specific blocks for cases which are easy to do and fall
back to the current implementation in others.  But as has been posted
here before, that needs someone to make, test and then propose the
changes.

-- David


From dd55 at cornell.edu  Sun Nov 14 21:52:01 2004
From: dd55 at cornell.edu (Darren Dale)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:52:01 -0500
Subject: determining the number of output arguments
References: <mailman.6361.1100470915.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cn95k1$bfq$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>

Jp Calderone wrote:

> On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 17:12:24 -0500, Darren Dale <dd55 at cornell.edu> wrote:
>>Hello,
>> 
>> def test(data):
>> 
>> i = ? This is the line I have trouble with
>> 
>> if i==1: return data
>> else: return data[:i]
>> 
>> a,b,c,d = test([1,2,3,4])
>> 
>> How can I set i based on the number of output arguments defined in
>> (a,b,c,d)?
>> 
> 
>   There is a recipe in the ASPN cookbook for this.  I wonder, though.  Why
>   do you see this as preferable to the more obvious form of:
> 
>     def test(data):
>         # ...
>         return data
> 
>     a, b, c, d = test([1, 2, 3, 4])[:4]
> 
>   The added "magic" does little but make it easier to write buggy code and
>   harder to understand the behavior of the "test" function.
> 
>   Jp


I want to extend the capabilities of an existing function without breaking
backward compatibility. I used nargin and nargout (number of arguments in
and out) pretty extensively in Matlab.



From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Fri Nov 19 13:55:02 2004
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:55:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python 2.4 / built-ins
Message-ID: <Xns95A6CAB53DB5Dcpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>

after reading the announcement I also read the "highlights" within 
http://www.python.org/2.4/highlights.html

Under headline

  New or upgraded built-ins

there is 

decimal - a new numeric type that allows for the accurate representation of 
floating point numbers (avoiding the problems of binary floating point) 
(PEP 327)


And I am very happy about this and eagerly looking forward to. But: as much 
as I understand from the PEP and the discussion on py-dev, it will be a 
module within the standard library.

And not something built in Python -- at the moment.

Am I wrong with this information?

Harald


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Nov 26 11:36:40 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:36:40 +0100
Subject: zip module password
References: <cnt99a$n2n$2@lacerta.tiscalinet.it><cntjm6$qc2$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<HUYod.48278$Ni.1673449@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <co7luc$v57$1@sea.gmane.org>

Giovanni Bajo wrote:

> In fact, it is no wonder that it is my sole contribution to Python -- I found the
> lack of responsiveness so depressing.

if you want people to use your modified zip module, wrap it up and make it
available via PyPI:

    http://www.python.org/pypi

if you have other contributions, wrap them up and post them to PyPI.  the
"I'll only contribute to the standard library" approach doesn't work.

</F> 





From rkern at ucsd.edu  Wed Nov 17 06:06:02 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 03:06:02 -0800
Subject: seeking a new host for the "Python Grimoire"
In-Reply-To: <cnf7mt$adl$1@news.tue.nl>
References: <b16e4ef7.0411161729.51e2ea80@posting.google.com>
	<cnf7mt$adl$1@news.tue.nl>
Message-ID: <cnfbar$7fi$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Gerrit Muller wrote:

> Stephen,
> 
> I didn't know this resource. It looks nice. Why take it down? It looks 
> valuable as is. Maybe you should add a warning that it is no longer 
> maintained and that volunteers are welcomed at the top?

Some of the material is so out-of-date that it will teach beginners bad 
habits (well, good habits if you are still using 1.5.2, but bad habits 
relative what good habits you *should* be developing if you are using a 
modern Python).

If no one steps forward to take over right now (and I am, alas, already 
overcommitted), it would be nice if the page is kept up with a big, red, 
blazing sign warning off newbies. If the page just disappears from the 
web, I don't think it likely that it will get picked up again. I am 
reminded of a quote from Brewster Kahle, the founder of the Internet 
Archive: "The average lifespan of a Web page today is 100 days. This is 
no way to run a culture."

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Nov  4 17:34:48 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 14:34:48 -0800
Subject: Simple thread pools
In-Reply-To: <418A4900.7020304@debpro.webcom.dk>
References: <418A4900.7020304@debpro.webcom.dk>
Message-ID: <20041104102722.F815.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Jacob Friis <lists at debpro.webcom.dk> wrote:
> 
> I have built a script inspired by a post on Speno's Pythonic Avocado:
> http://www.pycs.net/users/0000231/weblog/2004/01/04.html#P10
> 
> I'm setting NUM_FEEDERS to 1000.
> Is that crazy?

Not crazy, but foolish.  Thread scheduling in Python reduces performance
beyond a few dozen threads.  If you are doing system calls (socket.recv,
file.read, etc.), your performance will be poor.

> Are there a better solution?

Fewer threads.  Try running at 10-30.  If you are finding that you
aren't able to handle the load with those threads, then your
processor/disk/etc isn't fast enough to handle the load.

 - Josiah



From santa at sbox.tugraz.at  Thu Nov  4 18:54:21 2004
From: santa at sbox.tugraz.at (Gerald Senarclens de Grancy)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 23:54:21 GMT
Subject: exec code in "globaldict"
Message-ID: <Nizid.55896$z77.3059@news.chello.at>

Hi!
I kept searching my online and offline python ressources to figure out 
how to execute some code in the global dictionary. Basically I'm reading 
a options file that defines some variables. I want to access those 
variables throughout my whole project, so I need them in the global 
dictionary. Now I think I'm plainly too stupid to figure out what to 
write in place of the word "globaldict" to have my definitions in this dict.
Thanks for any kind of help.
cheers, Gerald


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Nov 29 13:16:34 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 19:16:34 +0100
Subject: knowing a file's own name
References: <60C61E64-422D-11D9-9AA0-000A95A7B782@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <cofoto$t7r$1@sea.gmane.org>

Scott Frankel wrote:

> I'm looking for a way to identify a filename remotely.  Put differently,
> is there a way a file can get its own name from its globals()?
>
> doit.py calls exec() on a second py script, tpairs.py, to obtain a dict of the globals in 
> tpairs.py.  How can I add the filename, "tpairs.py,"
> to the resulting dict?
> i.e.:
>
> # - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> # -- tpairs.py
> # - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> this  = "this"
> that  = "that"
> gdict = globals()
>
> # - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> # -- doit.py
> # - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> #!/usr/bin/env python
>
> theFile = "./tpairs.py"
> theDict = {}
> execfile(theFile, theDict)
>
> # somehow add theFile to gdict, i.e.:
> # gdict['theFile'] = theFile

given your example,

gdict['theFile'] = theFile

does in fact do what you want.

if you want "tpairs.py" to know it's own name, you could add it to
theDict *before* you call execfile:

    # doit.py
    theDict = {"__file__": theFile}
    execfile(theFile, theDict)

    # in tpairs.py
    gdict["theFile"] = __file__

but why you want a script to access its own globals via a dictionary is
more than I can figure out...

</F> 





From exarkun at divmod.com  Tue Nov 30 10:22:02 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:22:02 GMT
Subject: module imports and memory usage
In-Reply-To: <coi223$ahu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <20041130152202.17481.716176004.divmod.quotient.12141@ohm>

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:02:27 -0500, Brad Tilley <bradtilley at gmail.com> wrote:
>When memory usage is a concern, is it better to do:
> 
> from X import Y
> 
> or
> 
> import X

  There is no difference.  If you are concerned about memory usage, you probably need to take a look at the data structures holding your application's data, and find a way to make them smaller (most commonly, this is done by selecting a new algorithm that works on a sparser data structure).  This isn't specific to Python, of course.

> 
> Also, is there a way to load and unload modules as they are needed. I 
> have some scripts that sleep for extended periods during a while loop 
> and I need to be as memory friendly as possible. I can post a detailed 
> script that currently uses ~ 10MB of memory if anyone is interested.

  Not really, no.  Deleting all references to a module may cause the module object to be collected by the vm, but there is no guarantee that the memory it used will be released to the platform.  It's possible Python will re-use it for the next object it needs memory for, which may help your memory problems if you are loading many (_many_) more modules than you ever use at once.

  On a reasonable platform, if your program is sleeping, much of the memory it uses will be swapped out, especially if other processes need it.  Are you sure you have good reason to be concerned over the size of the program?

  Jp


From python at davious.org  Fri Nov 26 22:23:07 2004
From: python at davious.org (Dave Anderson)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 22:23:07 -0500
Subject: The use of :
In-Reply-To: <89cc6e1f.0411251858.40b6bbc7@posting.google.com>
References: <89cc6e1f.0411251858.40b6bbc7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <uqSpd.4403$SA.2227@lakeread02>

this is answered in the python faq:

http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general.html#why-are-colons-required-for-the-if-while-def-class-statements

> The colon is required primarily to enhance readability


Chang LI wrote:
> Some statements use : in the tail such as while x > 0: and def func():
> What is the meaning and the usage of : in Python?


From adam at 757.org  Sun Nov  7 19:06:27 2004
From: adam at 757.org (Adam C.)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 19:06:27 -0500
Subject: how to count server response time from client ??
In-Reply-To: <cmabe8$4mn$1@netnews.hinet.net>
References: <cma9fb$kru$1@netnews.hinet.net> <cmabe8$4mn$1@netnews.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <mKyjd.3084$FE.1224@lakeread06>

Leon wrote:
> .....in not use NTP(network time protocol) Protocols,do it
> "Leon" <square690410 at yahoo.com.tw> ???g???l???s?D:cma9fb$kru$1 at netnews.hinet.net...
> 
>>I want to write a web test tool(HTTP Protocols)
>>I use header 'Date' do obtin server response time
>>but client and server time clock is different
>>how to count server and client time clock  interval or discrepancy
>>Can obtin server receive time ????
>>
>>thank everybody...

Psuedocode:

start = GetCurrentLocalTime()
SendRequest()
stop = GetCurrentLocalTime()
RepsonseTime = stop - start

Or are you looking for something different?

--
Adam


From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Tue Nov 23 04:13:14 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:13:14 +0100
Subject: Changing the color of default frame border
In-Reply-To: <1101181142.223463.22240@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1101170615.382927.136240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<cnu394$lls$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<1101181142.223463.22240@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <41a2fd68$0$3345$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Mudcat wrote:
> Oh yeah. I guess that would help a little. You use something all the
> time and just assume everone else does also.
> I'm using Tkinter on Windows 2000 with Python 2.3. 

There is no such thing as a border color for a Tkinter frame: it is just the 
color of the frame. To get a specific color for the border alone, maybe you can 
use two frames: the first for the border and another one inside it where you put 
your widgets. But I fear there is no way to set a *default* border color for frames.

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Tue Nov 16 13:24:08 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 18:24:08 GMT
Subject: .pyc files...
References: <E1CTDp7-00050j-00@galvatron.kickingdragon.com>
	<mailman.6343.1100420001.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<x74qjsnj1o.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <slrncpkha7.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 16:48:51 -0600, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
> "Simon John" <simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk> writes:
> 
>> Stephen Waterbury wrote:
>>
>>> > OK, stupid question, but it's been bothering me for ages.. J
>>> >
>>> > I love Python to bits, but .pyc files always litter my source tree,
>> and
>>> > they've always bothered me. ...
>>
>>> One solution (on unices, at least):
>>>
>>> alias cleanpy="find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm {} ';'"
>> or with backticks:  rm -rf `find . -name '*.pyc'`
> 
> Better with $(: rm -rf $(find . -name '*.pyc').

Yeah, but then you're bash-specific.  Or at least that rules sh, csh and
tcsh.

My weapon of choice would be
  find . -name '*.pyc' | xargs rm
but on the other hand .pyc files don't bother me much ...

/Jorgen
(who wonders if the OP really was on a Unix system)

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Nov 10 17:58:13 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 23:58:13 +0100
Subject: html parsing?  Or just simple regex'ing?
References: <pan.2004.11.10.01.37.41.879705@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<cmstsc$bh$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<pan.2004.11.10.22.41.07.904121@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <cmu6dv$4fe$05$1@news.t-online.com>

> But if I use an XML parser to parse HTML instead of a dedicated HTML
> parser, will I still get smart handling of unpaired tags?  I'm not sure we
> can count on getting 100% properly formed HTML...

There should be html2dom parsers - after all, extending htmlparser to
generate dom shouldn't be to hard.

Googling turns up tidy - so you may want to feed your html through it
before:

http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2004/09/08/pyxml.html


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Nov  9 20:07:51 2004
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 9 Nov 2004 17:07:51 -0800
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<wdWdnZ-fWZxWlBDcRVn-vw@rogers.com>
	<1gmueqr.1hs16lxfjegpuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0411091707.145327e7@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1gmueqr.1hs16lxfjegpuN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...

> [A]sking for tolerance and patience
> against _rude_ newbies which barge in with shrill, mostly unjustified,
> repetitious complaints, is, I think, a rather far-fetched request.

That request is in no way far-fetched if made to someone of great
personal maturity and character.  Rudeness is hardly ever an effective
response to rudeness.  So I'll make it:  "Please be tolerant and
patient of newbies, _especially_ the rude ones." :p  Remember it's the
audience, not merely the opponent you are addressing.

Be that as it may, Maurice's original question, while arguably founded
upon a false presumption, was in no way rude.  Nor were his subsequent
posts (unless I missed one).  The helpfulness of this newgroup should
be (and was) one of python's selling points.  Certainly I learned much
here, and especially from your posts Alex, when I first started using
the language.


From richie at entrian.com  Wed Nov  3 10:51:27 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:51:27 +0000
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
In-Reply-To: <6_qdnQZOZ_YYZRXcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
References: <cthoeigtdun.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
	<slrncohmqk.n07.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<TfOdna4IePwZexXcRVn-pA@powergate.ca>
	<TbadndhdMqHzaRXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
	<TbadndtdMqGHaBXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
	<6_qdnQZOZ_YYZRXcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <nfvho0lg9v27seljf1tnttbuq0mimloenu@4ax.com>


[Peter]
>>> asyncexc = ctypes.pythonapi.PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc
>>> exc = ctypes.py_object(ValueError)
>>> asyncexc(t.id, exc)

We'll *never* get ctypes into the standard library now.  8-)

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 11:32:56 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:32:56 GMT
Subject: How to get an item from a simple set?
In-Reply-To: <is7vxlw5.fsf@wgmail2.gatwick.eur.slb.com>
References: <mzx7xo74.fsf@wgmail2.gatwick.eur.slb.com>
	<mailman.6756.1101311220.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<is7vxlw5.fsf@wgmail2.gatwick.eur.slb.com>
Message-ID: <YI2pd.455349$D%.179882@attbi_s51>

Pete Forman wrote:
> I actually wanted to append the single item to a string,  Steven's
> solutions work for assignment.
[snip]
>>>>line = 'bar '
>>>>line += iter(s).next()
>>>>line
> 'bar foo'

Yeah, using the assignment's an extra line:

 >>> line_list = ['bar ']
 >>> item, = s
 >>> line_list.append(item)
 >>> ''.join(line_list)
'bar foo'

I still tend to write the extra line in cases like this -- it guarantees 
that the set is really the size that I think it is, where the 
iter(s).next() solution will not raise an exception if the set is 
actually larger.

Steve


From w0jrs at firepole.com  Mon Nov 29 13:12:51 2004
From: w0jrs at firepole.com (Jamie Saker)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:12:51 -0600
Subject: Python-list Digest, Vol 14, Issue 377
In-Reply-To: <20041129230428.3CBC71E401C@bag.python.org>
References: <20041129230428.3CBC71E401C@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <200411291212.51436.w0jrs@firepole.com>

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:05:14 -0500, "Eric S. Johansson" <esj at harvee.org> 
wrote:
> If I could simply do: py-get twisted

And I forgot to mention, the Gentoo 'emerge' tool is actually written in 
Python, so in a sense, your py-get is already there in Gentoo.

From the header of /usr/bin/python:

#!/usr/bin/python -O
# Copyright 1999-2004 Gentoo Foundation
# Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License v2
# $Header: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-src/portage/bin/emerge,v 1.347 2004/10/21 
20:54:38 carpaski Exp $

Gentoo is a rather enjoyable distro for Python work. Most Python packages are 
an emerge away: twisted, zope (including zope3), bsddb, mysql & postgresql 
interfaces, python-ldap, pyparsing and many others. 

A few to make Gentoo more enjoyable:

1. standardize on a kernel (e.g. I use hardened-dev-sources for servers and 
gentoo-dev-sources for workstations - all 2.6 kernels,) This simplifies 
maintenance and opens up distcc for you (which will be handy if you have a 
few systems that will be running Gentoo and want to speed up source builds). 
You'll need a common kernel and gcc version in order to not have distcc 
issues.

2. read up on USE= flags. It simplifies dependencies significantly, but you 
want to make sure you're using it to its fullest, not leaving out important 
options or including everything and the kitchen sink. For instance, if you're 
not using ipv6, don't bother - including this in your USE= statement will 
slow down source builds significantly for no benefit (not to mention some 
bloat and potentially some security issues for unmonitored capabilities e.g. 
enabling samba USE without discretion).

3. set your ACCEPT_KEYWORDS = 'x86' (assuming intel/x86) to back off minor 
version builds. of course, if you need bleeding edge packages, you may have 
to use ~x86. x86 is the "stable" setting. 

4. for help, forums.gentoo.org is useful (though the search engine is rather 
lacking imho)

Having started with two 5.25's in 1993, I've been a die-hard user of SLS, 
Slackware, Redhat, Debian and now Gentoo. You'll hear plenty of distro war 
stuff and certainly every tool has its pros/cons. For python, if you haven't 
given Gentoo a look, check it out...

Jamie


From jubafre at atlas.ucpel.tche.br  Mon Nov  8 05:29:52 2004
From: jubafre at atlas.ucpel.tche.br (Juliano Freitas)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 08:29:52 -0200
Subject: SAX parse string to Handler??
Message-ID: <1099909792.22568.3.camel@swdb>

hello!!!

here is my pythn code that's handle a xml file:

=============================================================
from xml.sax import saxutils, saxlib, saxexts, parseString

class swdbHandler(saxlib.DocumentHandler):
        def __init__(self):
                self.flag = 0

        def startElement(self, name, atts):
                if name == "swml":
                        print "enter"

        def endElement(self, name):
                if name == "swml":
                        print "exit"

parser = saxexts.make_parser()
parser.setDocumentHandler(swdbHandler())

# here
parser.parseFile(open("exemplo.xml"))
=============================================================

i want to parse a "xml string", not a file how can i'm passing in my
swdbHandler. How cai i parse a xml string?? 
somebody can help me with this??

Juliano Freitas



From lynn at crazedimaginations.net  Sat Nov 20 02:54:35 2004
From: lynn at crazedimaginations.net (Lynn)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:54:35 -0800
Subject: stopping the sound server in PySol code -- how?
References: <iqAnd.69632$SW3.42915@fed1read01> <cnmqq0$l6n$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<zjCnd.69642$SW3.14459@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <UKCnd.69643$SW3.19216@fed1read01>

Lynn wrote:

> Robert Kern wrote:

> It is via an RPM.  I think it's the one that came with SuSE 9.1.  It
> installed pysolsoundserver.so.  I renamed that file to see if not finding
> it would be enough.  But the script failed because it couldn't find it.
> 
> I will try uninstalling the rpm and getting the PySol source.
> 

Nope. If I run from the src (grabbed frm www.pysol.org)  I get this stack
trace:
 File "pysol.py", line 47, in ?
    from main import main
  File "/data/apps/pysol-4.82/src/main.py", line 48, in ?
    from app import Application
  File "/data/apps/pysol-4.82/src/app.py", line 54, in ?
    from images import Images, SubsampledImages
  File "/data/apps/pysol-4.82/src/images.py", line 47, in ?
    from pysoltk import tkversion, loadImage, copyImage, createImage
  File "/data/apps/pysol-4.82/src/pysoltk.py", line 81, in ?
    exec "from " + m + " import *"
  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
  File "/data/apps/pysol-4.82/src/tk/soundoptionsdialog.py", line 44, in ?
    from pysolaudio import pysolsoundserver
  File "/data/apps/pysol-4.82/src/pysolaudio.py", line 44, in ?
    import pysolsoundserver
ImportError: No module named pysolsoundserver

If I strip out every instance of importing that module, it eventually dies
with a tk box alerting me thatg the global pysolsoundserver is not defined.

I'm farther along than I've ever been though. :)

-- 
Peace, Love and Absolute Pleasure
Crazed Imaginations RHPS cast
www.crazedimaginations.net


From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Nov 17 17:35:17 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:35:17 GMT
Subject: regular expressions and internationalization (WAS: permuting
 letters...)
In-Reply-To: <x7sm789sml.fsf@handshake.de>
References: <67lld8kr76.fsf@aster.homelinux.net>
	<34Skd.24295$KJ6.17501@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4195217c$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<mailman.6313.1100288445.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3B8ld.24947$KJ6.15770@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.6316.1100290534.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<x7sm789sml.fsf@handshake.de>
Message-ID: <FmQmd.1629$Tq6.1151@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> writes on Fri, 12 Nov 2004 
20:15:28 +0000 (UTC):
>Is there any way to match \w but not \d?

Dieter Maurer wrote:
> It is:  r'(?!\d)\w'

While implementation are free to optimize this case, the current
Python implementation is slower than the other solution of r"[^\d\W]"

 >>> text = "Blah an123d blah901234 9spam and eggs\n" * 1000
 >>> import re
 >>> pat1 = re.compile(r"((?!\d)\w)+")
 >>> pat2 = re.compile(r"[^\d\W]+")
 >>> len(pat2.findall(text))
7000
 >>> len(pat1.findall(text))
7000
 >>> import timeit
 >>> x = timeit.Timer(setup = "import __main__ as M",
                      stmt = "M.pat1.findall(M.text)")
 >>> x.timeit(100)
4.0506279468536377
 >>> x = timeit.Timer(setup = "import __main__ as M",
                      stmt = "M.pat2.findall(M.text)")
 >>> x.timeit(100)
1.8287069797515869
 >>>

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From jwaixs at freeler.nl  Sun Nov  7 06:21:24 2004
From: jwaixs at freeler.nl (Noud Aldenhoven)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 12:21:24 +0100
Subject: Beginning with Classes
References: <a37cb$418cce14$53e8229a$32210@freeler.nl>
	<2v46bvF2fovnbU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <ad2e5$418e007e$53e8229a$28383@freeler.nl>

Stefan Axelsson wrote:

> Noud Aldenhoven wrote:
> 
>> Is there a tutorial or a documentation about Python and classes. Starting
>> from beginners and ending in avarege or expert?
> 
> If you haven't read "How to Think Like a Computer Scientist: Learning
> with Python", by Jeff Elkner (et.al.?) then I'd suggest you'd start
> there. Its geared towards beginning programmers and will get you started
> with classes etc. It's available on the web (free as in both beer and
> speech) at http://ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCS/python.php
> 
> Stefan,

I read the book too, but it doesn't dive too deep into classes.
But you're right! It's a good book to start. 

Thank you,

Noud


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov  2 20:11:17 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 01:11:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41882354$0$14963$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <loom.20041103T020143-183@post.gmane.org>

Christophe Cavalaria <chris.cavalaria <at> free.fr> writes:
> 
> > Note that PHP doesn't fit your definition above anyway.  When PHP allows:
> > 
> > "a" + 10 == 10
> > 
> > it's not incorrectly using "some piece of data by applying to it the wrong
> > type".  It's doing exactly what it tells you it'll do.  This is *correct*
> > response given the PHP language definition.
> 
> Incorrectly is a view of the mind in that case. From my point of view it is
> incorrect. And you could argue that taking a float * and casting it into a
> int * gives us a predictable behaviour. It'll still be wrong to do it
> unless it was exactly what you wanted to do. And in that case you can
> create explicit language constructs to do the trick.

The problem is, "exactly what you wanted to do" varies from programmer to
programmer.  Some programmers may actually want "a" + 10 == 10.  I can imagine
code that takes a string as input and adds its integer value to an int counter.
 Invalid input should not increment the counter and may be silently ignored.  I
would not write code this way, but some people would, and would want the code to
work the way PHP does.

So yes, "incorrectly is a view of the mind", but since we can't know what every
programmer is thinking, and it's extremely unlikely that every programmer will
agree what's correct or incorrect for every example, so we have to take the
language definition as the measuring stick for correct or incorrect.

Given that, your definition of weakly-typed:
  "A weakly typed language is a language that often uses incorectly some piece
   of data by applying to it the wrong type"
either would not call PHP a weakly-typed language, because the data is not used
incorrectly according to the language definition, or would not know what to call
PHP, because incorrectly cannot be defined in a way that applies correctly to
all programmers.

I prefer not extending "weakly-typed" in this way because it makes the term less
well-defined.

Steve



From pierre.barbier at cirad.fr  Tue Nov 30 05:15:02 2004
From: pierre.barbier at cirad.fr (Pierre Barbier de Reuille)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:15:02 +0100
Subject: documentation for PyArg_ParseTupleAndKeywords
In-Reply-To: <NGOqd.485972$D%.108119@attbi_s51>
References: <NGOqd.485972$D%.108119@attbi_s51>
Message-ID: <41ac47b7$0$28454$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Steven Bethard a ?crit :
> I'm just starting to play around with the Python source.  (Specifically, 
> I'm looking at adding a key argument to max/min like sorted has.)  Can 
> anyone direct me to the documentation on how 
> PyArg_ParseTupleAndKeywords, etc. work?  In particular, I can't figure 
> out how the format arg to vgetargskeywords should be specified...
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Steve

You have a good documentation about that on the web site ... look at 
"Python/C API" and "Extending and Embedding". The second one is more a 
tutorial when the first one is more a reference. But everything is 
explained there !

Pierre


From benji at benjiyork.com  Thu Nov 18 22:26:48 2004
From: benji at benjiyork.com (Benji York)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:26:48 -0600
Subject: Wrapping a C library in Python
In-Reply-To: <roy-99F088.20103518112004@reader1.panix.com>
References: <roy-99F088.20103518112004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <419D67F8.6080901@benjiyork.com>

Roy Smith wrote:
> I've got a C library with about 50 calls in it that I want to wrap in 
> Python. 

I'd recommend ctypes (http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/).
     It is very easy to use and multi-platform.

I have a small project that provides a DB API 2.0 interface to the ODBTP
(http://odbtp.sf.net) library.  See http://benjiyork.com/odbtp.html
(beware programmer-web-design ahead) for the code (LGPL).  It might
serve as an example to get you on your way.

BTW, if anyone is interested, I hope to have a much improved version of
the wrapper ready in a few weeks to be included in the official ODBTP
distribution.
-- 
Benji York
benji at benjiyork.com





From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Nov 27 14:19:43 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 14:19:43 -0500
Subject: Replacing words from strings except  'and' / 'or' / 'and not'
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6843.1101580088.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6843.1101580088.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <coajvh$n70$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Jp Calderone wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:54:02 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>Sets are implemented using dictionaries, so the "if w in KEYWORDS"
>>part would be O(1) instead of O(n) as with lists...
>>
> And yet... using sets here is slower in every possible case:
[snip results]
> This is a pretty clear example of premature optimization.  

Boy, talk about preaching to the converted! ;-)

It's actually pretty silly to talk about optimizing in the case
of a list or Set or dict with only three items...  my response was
an attempt to provide an explanation for why a Set was used
instead of a list.  In other words, an attempt to read someone's
mind.  I choose what was to me at the time the most obvious
apparent reason for the choice, but I may have chosen wrong.

Let's try again:  the code is more readable with a Set because
it becomes clear to a reader that it is a simple set of items
rather than a sequence.  The ordering doesn't matter, in the
mind of the programmer, but merely whether an item is in the
set or not.  To one who is used to using Sets (I'm not yet),
I would imagine that the choice made here is the more natural
one...

(If one wanted to optimize, one might actually be better off
analyzing the frequency of usage of the three items in the set,
and converting to a list with the most-frequently used items at
the start, but then that would still be a pretty silly thing
to do for only three items, so leaving it as a Set would likely
be the best thing for overall readability.)

-over-analyses-R-us-ly yr's,
  Peter


From danperl at rogers.com  Mon Nov 22 23:19:44 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:19:44 -0500
Subject: Is there a consensus on how to check a polymorphic instance?
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <KrKdnXvgGaP_Jz_cRVn-pg@rogers.com>

As you say yourself, many people in this group will probably recommend 
solution #3.  I would agree with them.

You should keep in mind that Alex's recipe (solution #2) was published in 
2001 (before version 2.2 which introduced big changes in terms of OO) so I'm 
not sure he would recommend that solution anymore.  I'll leave it to him to 
give his final judgement.

I haven't read Mertz's book and I don't know in what context he recommends 
solution #1.  Personally I see it useful in situations where you want to 
check whether the class has a method like next() for example, so you want to 
see whether the object is iterable.  But if you implement a base class with 
an attribute x1 it may be risky to just check objects for having that 
attribute.  The object may have an attribute with that name but its role may 
be completely different than what you expect (e.g., your class may use x1 
for a list, but your object is an instance of a class that uses x1 for a 
string).  Same thing with methods.

Go with isinstance().  That's what it's for.

Dan

"Mike Meng" <meng.yan at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1101180636.399043.199740 at z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> hi all,
> I'm a newbie Python programmer with a C++ brain inside. I have a
> lightweight framework in which I design a base class and expect user to
> extend. In other part of the framework, I heavily use the instance of
> this base class (or its children class). How can I ensure the instance
> IS-A base  class instance, since Python is a fully dynamic typing
> language?
>
> I searched and found several different ways to do this:
>
> 1. In `Text Processing in Python', David Mertz suggests using `hasattr'
> to check abilities instead of type checking.
>
> 2. In ActiveState's Python Cookbook site, Alex Martelli suggested a
> safe and accurate `look before you leap' technique on
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52291
>
> 3. In this group, some others suggest using isinstance() builtin
> function to check instance.
>
> Now my questions:
> 1. Is my design speaks native Pythonish? Such design is native in C++
> and Java OO style, but I'm not sure about this in Python.
>
> 2. As I state in title, is there a consensus on how to check a
> polymorphic instance? I find all the three ways above is a little bit
> tedious compared with C++ and Java, in which compile-time type checking
> ensures the interface protocol, any better ideas in Python?
> Any comments will be appreciated.
> 




From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Mon Nov  8 08:14:41 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 05:14:41 -0800
Subject: Email "portal" in Python?
References: <f7199550.0411072019.182a98df@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0411080514.3a10136b@posting.google.com>

pc451 at yahoo.com (Peter Clark) wrote in message news:<f7199550.0411072019.182a98df at posting.google.com>...
> Think of something like MyYahoo: a personalized portal with news
> aggregator, weather forecast, comics, etc. Now instead of visiting a
> web site, think of all of it being sent daily as an email. It does
> have a web interface, but mostly for selecting your content: this is
> my location for weather, these are the news feeds I'm interested in,
> these are the comics I like, save my preferences, and the server takes
> care of the rest. Does such a thing exist? (Even in other non-Python
> languages?) I've tried Freshmeat, and the other usual sources, but so
> far, nothing. If there isn't any such creature, I'll write my own, but
> I wanted to first check that I'm not re-inventing the wheel.
> 
> Thanks,
> :Peter

I don't think you'll find anything (although I'd love to be proved
wrong).

I've nearly completed a 'login module' for use with Python CGIs. It is
very easy to use (simplest use add three lines of code to the start of
your script - user is then required to login). It has built in support
for saving user preferences. It *will* feature full admin screens and
optional client side javascript encryption for secured password
transmission. (It's done - just needs glueing together). It uses
cookies and adding 'session persistence' would be very easy.

I'd love to work on Python CGI frameworks for this sort of project -
preferably in a modular way.

You can see a quick example of what I've done so far at :
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/cgi-bin/jalopy/jalopy.py

(This is an online Content Management System that allows editing and
creating of webpages using the Kupu WSYWIG editor). It only implements
login and logout - but the infastructure behind it is quite complete.

I'd like to see a nice Webamil application etc using python
(preferably straight CGI) - and would like to find people to work
with. We would probably benefit from using a framework like Quixote,
but I haven't quite got around to learning it......

If you are itnerested then email me ( mike AT pcbloes DOT com) or if
you would liek to go alone but are still interested in just the login
stuff then also email me.

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Nov  3 07:14:37 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 06:14:37 -0600
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
	<10of7jtm07h7f77@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.5838.1099425921.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10ogh12akkrrb97@news.supernews.com>
	<x7d5yvv1vh.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <10ohitepsdghd69@news.supernews.com>


"Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
news:x7d5yvv1vh.fsf at guru.mired.org...
> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:
>
>> "John Hazen" <python-list at hazen.net> wrote in message
>> news:mailman.5838.1099425921.5135.python-list at python.org...
>> 1. Where do I store the module? I don't have a web site, and
>> it isn't on sourceforge.
>
> Ok, that's a definite need. Possibly python.org could host a mechanism
> to allow people to post modules. I'd do it myself, but I'm not sure
> how long I'm going to have my current net connection for.
>
>> 2. For what I've done, the standard installer script required
>> for PPI is stoopid. All that's really needed to install is unpack
>> to the right directory. That's it. However, to use distutils I
>> had to write a packager program to create all the entries
>> I needed. This took me quite a few hours and left a very
>> sour taste since a lot of things that I thought should have
>> been automatic weren't.
>
> I found the standard installer script trivial to set up. If it took
> hours, then you're doing something wrong. It even made it possible for
> me to distribute C modules to Windows, whereas those trying to build
> the module on Windows prior to me putting it into distutils never
> succeeded.

Oh, the standard installer would have been fine - if all I
was distributing was Python modules. However, I have
a fairly large number of examples and quite a large amount
of HTML documentation. For some reason, the standard
installer decided that it would copy them to the install file
just fine, and then not install them. Nothing I could do would
make them install other than listing each and every file in
the install script, individually and by hand.

That's absolutely stoopid when they go into the exact
same directory they came out of. The time was spent

1) asking for help on the newsgroup. Nobody had any
helpful suggestions.

2) Hammering on the thing trying to make it work.
No joy.

3) Writing a small script to build the distutils script.
That worked, although there still seems to be an
intermittant problem on the install.

John Roth
>
>        <mike
> -- 
> Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
> Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more 
> information. 



From j_belbo at hotmail.com  Sat Nov 13 06:12:49 2004
From: j_belbo at hotmail.com (j_belbo)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 12:12:49 +0100
Subject: rrdtool and Python
Message-ID: <4195ec2c$0$23095$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net>

Hello,

I'm looking for a library to use rrdtool directly from python on windows
- http://sourceforge.net/projects/py-rrdtool/ seems still in beta
- http://www.pypackage.org/packages/python-rrdtool doesn't have any
documentation
 and I don't know how to compile the code and if it's windows compliant

If anybody have solutions for me it will be welcome ;-)

Regards,

Jacobo




From rkern at ucsd.edu  Thu Nov 11 10:24:11 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:24:11 -0800
Subject: distutils and Debian
In-Reply-To: <1UKkd.32427$km5.1574845@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <4192AD69.5040707@sympatico.ca>
	<slrncp5cf6.v8.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<qeGdnUA1FNXrJw_cRVn-oA@giganews.com> <cmuf87$fm5$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<1UKkd.32427$km5.1574845@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <cn006r$1om$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Colin J. Williams wrote:

> I have installed the Python*-dev packages, but my present problem 
> centres on installing distutils.

Why are you trying to install distutils over the one provided by 
python-dev? It's probably not a good idea.

> With >python setup.py install, I get:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "setup.py", line 30, in ?
>     packages = ['distutils', 'distutils.command'],
>   File "/root/downloads/python/Distutils-1.0.2/distutils/core.py", line 
> 102, in setup
>     _setup_distribution = dist = klass(attrs)
>   File "/root/downloads/python/Distutils-1.0.2/distutils/dist.py", line 
> 130, in __init__
>     setattr(self, method_name, getattr(self.metadata, method_name))
> AttributeError: DistributionMetadata instance has no attribute 
> 'get___doc__'
> 
> I would welcome any suggestion as to how I can work around this.

I don't have a clue. It seems to be internal to the Distutils-1.0.2 
source distribution and not using the distutils from python-dev. I 
suggest asking on the distutils mailing list.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Nov  8 06:47:26 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 12:47:26 +0100
Subject: pep 8 converter?
In-Reply-To: <418F5BB6.3000807@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
References: <418F503F.9050409@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
	<mailman.6109.1099911938.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418F5BB6.3000807@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20041108114726.GA7735@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Mon, Nov 08, 2004 at 11:42:46AM +0000, Robin Becker wrote:
> Gerhard Haering wrote:
> >On Mon, Nov 08, 2004 at 10:53:51AM +0000, Robin Becker wrote:
> >
> >>Is there a tool that checks/imposes PEP 8 (ie the right core coding 
> >>style?). It seems that bugfix patches which miss on style are rejected 
> >>out of hand. [...]
> >
> >
> >I doubt that's the case. Care to provide an example?
> 
> Date: 2004-11-07 14:32
> Sender: *******
> Logged In: YES
> user_id=31392
> 
> The formatting of this patch is wrong.  There is a long line
> (>80 chars) and missing whitespace around commas, operators,
> etc.

URL?

-- Gerhard
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From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Sun Nov  7 10:11:04 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 16:11:04 +0100
Subject: Python OS
References: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmin1n$500$02$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6003.1099752590.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmiorc$j4b$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6021.1099783808.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmk7r1$4d0$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<mailman.6059.1099837930.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmldu9$a72$03$1@news.t-online.com>

> 
> Are you so sure of this Peter?  It certainly seems that this might be
> possible but as you point out, if one uses Python for _time critical_
> interrupts, the code will not live up to the _time critical_ aspect.
> Indeed, I agree and never said otherwise.  I could case less if it is
> extremely slow as speed or even usability was not my aim (I never
> indicated such either and in fact, I indicated otherwise by utilizing
> such terms as _virtual_ and _prototype_  [As Jeremy bravely points out] ).


I did not only mention the timing aspect, but also the GIL (Global
Interpretor Lock) aspect of a python-coded interrupt routine. That renders
python useless in such a case as it causes a deadlock.

I've had my share of embedded programming on various cores with variying
degrees of OS already available to me, as well as low-lever assembly
hacking on old 68k-machines as the amiga. My feeble attempts on task
schedulers and the like don't qualify as OS, but the teached me about the
difficulties that arise when trying to cope with data structure integritiy
in a totally asynchronous event like an interrupt. 

All that stuff has to be so low-level and carefully adjusted to timing
requirements that python is ruled out there- sometimes even C doesn't make
up for it.

Thats what I had in mind when answering your question.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Thu Nov 18 03:54:09 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 08:54:09 -0000
Subject: SQL Server stored prcedures with output parameters
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434BCD@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

[Steve Holden]

| However, the stored procedure below appears to consistently 
| return zero for the link_id when called with:
| 
| columnist_id, url, title, description, link_id = \
| 	curs.callproc("sp_InsertArticle",
| 		(columnist_id, url, title, description, 0))
| 
| so maybe there really *is* something wrong.

Ummm... Well, I don't know how you'd do it from ado, but
if I were writing this in T-SQL, I'd be saying:

DECLARE @new_link_id
EXECUTE sp_InsertArticle @columnist_id... , @new_link_id OUTPUT

In other words, you have to tell SQL that the param you're
passing in is an output param. Frankly, I don't know why, since
the data dictionary already knows that the formal parameter to
which it corresponds is flagged as output, but there it is.
I don't know (and I don't have the time to look just at the 
moment) how ADO handles that.

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
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From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Nov  2 09:01:50 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 09:01:50 -0500
Subject: vacation mail
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5802.1099394098.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5802.1099394098.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8vudnfNCkdjQDhrcRVn-jA@powergate.ca>

babloojhala at rediffmail.com wrote:
> Hi,
> Thank you for your mail. I'm away on work and will be back as early as possible.

Some vacation. :-(


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Nov 29 14:02:40 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:02:40 -0600
Subject: date diff calc
In-Reply-To: <K_-dnRIyHJPs_DbcRVn-jg@is.co.za>
References: <K_-dnRIyHJPs_DbcRVn-jg@is.co.za>
Message-ID: <16811.29264.547058.669652@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    tertius> Is there a more pythonic way to write or do a date difference
    tertius> calculation? I have as input two date fields in the form
    tertius> 'YYYY-MM-DD'

How about:

    import datetime
    import time

    bd = "2004-11-25"
    ed = "2004-11-30"

    start = datetime.date.fromtimestamp(time.strptime("%Y-%m-%d", bd))
    end = datetime.date.fromtimestamp(time.strptime("%Y-%m-%d", ed))

    print ed , '-', bd , '=', (end-start).days

I think that for completeness' sake it would be nice if datetime exposed a
fromstring method which accepted a string representing a date and a format
specifier, e.g.:

    start = datetime.date.fromstring("%Y-%m-%d", "2004-11-25")
    end = datetime.date.fromstring("%Y-%m-%d", "2004-11-30")

(Maybe it should be called "strptime", since that's the call it's saving.)

The datetime.date object already exposes a strftime method for generating a
formatted string output and will create date objects from both time.time()
output (fromtimestamp) and "proleptic Gregorian ordinal"s (fromordinal).
Looking at the datetime module docs, it's not at all obvious to me that the
latter would be used all that often.  I think inputs from strings would be
much more common.

Skip


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Nov  4 22:11:59 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 19:11:59 -0800
Subject: dijkstra algorithm by object oriented
In-Reply-To: <002c01c4c2d7$3af24690$5f4f81d9@ricardownj1130>
References: <20041104102844.F818.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<002c01c4c2d7$3af24690$5f4f81d9@ricardownj1130>
Message-ID: <20041104184926.F821.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


"Ricardo Batista" <batista.ric at iol.pt> wrote:
> 
> But i need it for a homework.

We try not to do homework here.

 - Josiah


> -----Mensagem original-----
> De: Josiah Carlson [mailto:jcarlson at uci.edu] 
> Enviada: quinta-feira, 4 de Novembro de 2004 22:23
> Para: Ricardo Batista; python-list at python.org
> Assunto: Re: dijkstra algorithm by object oriented
> 
> 
> "Ricardo Batista" <batista.ric at iol.pt> wrote:
> > 
> > Ok. you are right.
> > 
> > I don't express my self in a rigth way.
> > 
> > I just want an idea to begin my work.
> > 
> > For example, how many classes do i implement.
> > 
> > I have an idea to create three classes, class Graph, class Vertex,
> class
> > edge.
> > But i don't know if i'm going in the rigth way.
> > 
> > This is the help i need.
> 
> You don't need to use object orientation to implement the algorithm.  If
> it works, there is no problem.  If you want to make it faster, you
> should look into a variant that uses a heap.
> 
>  - Josiah



From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Thu Nov  4 21:52:01 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 21:52:01 -0500
Subject: win 2003 server
In-Reply-To: <418ADCDA.6030108@vt.edu>
References: <cmef57$7si$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>	<mailman.5944.1099618801.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418ADCDA.6030108@vt.edu>
Message-ID: <418AEAD0.3080906@bellsouth.net>

Brad Tilley wrote:

> Tim Peters wrote:
>
>> Windows XP Home Edition
>> Windows XP Professional
>> Windows XP Media Center Edition
>> Windows XP SP2 (several flavors)
>> Windows Small Business Server 2003
>> Windows Server 2003 Web Edition
>> Windows Server 2003 Standard Edition
>> Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition
>> Windows Server 2003 Datacenter Edition
>> Windows Storage Server 2003
>
>
<troll>

> Why not put that list on the Python Windows Web site so the suits in 
> IT management (who have the final say on things) will be more likely 
> to OK Python as a scripting environment on Windows? IMO, it's silly to 
> list Windows 95 and not list Windows 2003 server. Why not just shoot 
> yourself in the foot?
>
>
</troll>

<counter_troll>
    <flamebait>IT managers who have made the decision to use MS Windows 
(especially the server lines) deserve the productivity of their people 
using only VBScript as a scripting language and are unworthy of 
receiving the benefits of Python.  IT managers who do not know the 
difference among the different Windows lines deserve the productivity of 
their people using only batch scripts and are doubly unworthy of 
receiving the benefits of Python.  References to Windows versions of 
Python should be removed from the Python site altogether.
    </flamebait>
</counter_troll>

Seriously, it could just be that the page just hasn't been updated 
lately.  Windows 95 _did_ come before 2003 server.

yes-I-was-totally-and-sarcastically-kidding-ly y'rs,

Jeremy Jones



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 22 23:46:35 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 04:46:35 GMT
Subject: is int(round(val)) safe?
References: <rowen-8AF206.11131622112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<cntjpk$qc2$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <41a2b5fb.775710152@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:58:54 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

>Russell E. Owen wrote:
>> I realize this probably a stupid question, but...is it safe to 
>> round to the nearest integer by using int(round(val))?
>
>Define "safe".
>
>> I suspect it is fine, but wanted to be sure that weird floating point 
>> representation on some platform might make it unsafe there (i.e. get the 
>> wrong value due to the floating point value being an approximation) and 
>> if so, is there a Better Way).
>
>Since round() returns an integer, and since (ignoring really
>large integers, since I doubt you're concerned about them
>here) floating point values can handle *integer* values
>perfectly well, there's no reason it shouldn't do what you
>want.
>
>The problem* with floating point is inaccurate representation
>of certain _fractional_ values, not integer values.

Well, you mentioned really large integers, and I think it's worth
mentioning that you can get inaccurate representation of certain of those
values too. I.e., what you really have (for ieee 754 doubles) is 53 bits
to count with in steps of one weighted unit, and the unit can be 2**0
or 2**otherpower, where otherpower has 11 bits to represent it, more or less
+- 2**10 with an offset for 53. If the unit step is 2**1, you get twice the range
of integers, counting by two's, which doesn't give you a way of representing the
odd numbers between accurately. So it's not only fractional values that can get
truncated on the right. Try adding 1.0 to 2.0**53 ;-)

 >>> 2.0**53
 9007199254740992.0
 >>> 2  **53 # just to check
 9007199254740992L
 >>> 2.0**53 + 1.0
 9007199254740992.0
 >>> 2  **53 + 1 # just to check
 9007199254740993L

The float gets rounded down, but you can count by two's

 >>> 2.0**53
 9007199254740992.0
 >>> 2.0**53 +2.0
 9007199254740994.0

(2.0**53-1.0 is the last number with a LSB value of 1.0, but you can add 1.0
to that and get an exact 2.0**53 because the unit bit that results is 0 so it
doesn't matter that it's to the right of the new LSB of 2.0**53 (which has a weight of 2.0)).

Another way of thinking about it is that it's not about the accuracy of the numbers,
it's about how far apart the available accurate number representations are and the
choice you have to make if the value you want to represent falls between.

>
>-Peter
>
>* Well, _one_ of the problems. ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From marc at zeroc.com  Tue Nov 30 10:46:08 2004
From: marc at zeroc.com (Marc Laukien)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:46:08 -0500
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Ice 2.0 released
In-Reply-To: <22868227.0411300634.1d333921@posting.google.com>
References: <ketod.45140$K7.3294@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<ted8q0h19c4disktejd9ur7pdgec0h1hl0@4ax.com>
	<s7SdnfFRp_kLGjncRVn-1A@speakeasy.net>
	<22868227.0411300634.1d333921@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <0YidnREmZ8xECDHcRVn-oA@speakeasy.net>

> Interesting to see this blend of GPL and an alternative for
> closed-source software.
> 
> Not totally unrelated, I saw this in your web-site (Ice vs CORBA
> page):
> <QUOTE>
> No "Design by Committee" 
> Ice was designed by a small group of dedicated and highly experienced
> people.
> </QUOTE>
> 
> Am interested to know, what "percentage" (*) of the code in your CVS
> repository has been contributed by people other than the group
> mentioned in the quote above?  Obviously, you do not allow anonymous
> CVS write access.  Perhaps, one wishing to improve Ice (a freedom
> granted by GPL) and who does not work for ZeroC has to mail his/her
> improvements to your maintainers?
> 
> (*):  Percentage is a very nebulous term, I know.  For purposes of
> answering the question, maybe you could resort to the
> not-highly-meaningful number of LOC, and perhaps a word or two about
> how Ice benefited from it.

100% of the Ice source code has been developed by ZeroC employees.

Note that this does of course not apply for third-party code that is 
being used by Ice, such as BZIP2, Berkeley DB, OpenSSL, etc.

> 
> - Anand
> 
> PS:  Please feel free to set FU-Ts as appropriate.

What are FU-Ts?

-- Marc


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sat Nov 20 03:25:16 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:25:16 -0600
Subject: Python and generic programming
In-Reply-To: <419EEEAA.D3C1046F@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.5272.1098381729.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gm17og.ctwoqv17vkctxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<419EEEAA.D3C1046F@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <419EFF6C.6050400@colorstudy.com>

Jive Dadson wrote:
> If you have, for example, several data-types for matrices, how do you
> write code that will automatically find the right routine for quickly
> multiplying a vector by a diagonal matrix represented as a vector, and
> automatically call the right code for multiplying by a sparse matrix
> represented by some sparse coding, etc?

I haven't been following this thread, but Phillip Eby's recent 
implementation of generic functions should be mentioned if it hasn't 
been already:

http://dirtsimple.org/2004/11/generic-functions-have-landed.html

It might look something like this:

@dispatch.on('m1', 'm2')
def matrix_mul(m1, m2):
     "Multiply two matrices"

@matrix_mul.when(VectorMatrix, SparseMatrix)
def matrix_mul_sparse(m1, m2):
     "Special implementation"


-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  / http://blog.ianbicking.org


From behnel_ml at gkec.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de  Tue Nov 30 09:20:19 2004
From: behnel_ml at gkec.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:20:19 +0100
Subject: Syntax for extracting multiple items from a dictionary
In-Reply-To: <TuednaLvv_626THcRVn-hA@rcn.net>
References: <TuednaLvv_626THcRVn-hA@rcn.net>
Message-ID: <cohvj3$m4g$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>



shark schrieb:
> row = {"fname" : "Frank", "lname" : "Jones", "city" : "Hoboken", "state" :
> "Alaska"}
> cols = ("city", "state")
> 
> Is there a best-practices way to ask for an object containing only the keys
> named in cols out of row? In other words, to get this:
> {"city" : "Hoboken", "state" : "Alaska"}

Untested:

dict( (key,value) for (key,value) in row.iteritems() if key in cols )

Works in Py2.4

Stefan


From hari04 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 15 17:36:50 2004
From: hari04 at gmail.com (Hari  Pulapaka)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 14:36:50 -0800
Subject: Set like feature
In-Reply-To: <1gnbes4.g8udka1u399knN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <1100552512.672456.317420@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1gnbes4.g8udka1u399knN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1100558210.880787.182680@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
>
> Do you want to compare corresponding fields?  That's the only way I
can
> read that 'column by column basis', and thus I don't see what sets
could
> possibly have to do with it.
>
> Do you want to compare each row with every other row?  I also note in
> your example that the number of fields in each row appear to be
> variable, so how do you want to deal with 'missing' fields?

I want to comapre every element in each row with the element in the
remaining rows having the same column position. The rows need not have
the same number of elements, in which case I have to do some more
thinking :)

I was thinking of making each row of the array as a set and then
comparing each row of the array with the compare function being the set
intersection operation.

You have pretty much captured what I was thinking, and my solution is
also similar to what you showed.


> Too many unanswered questions, I guess.  But for some specified set
of
> answers to those question, you might do...:
>
> def compare_fields(i, j, base, other):
>     for k, f1, f2 in zip(xrange(sys.maxint), base, other):
>         if f1 != f2:
>             print 'DIFF', i, j, k, repr(f1), repr(f2)
>
> def lots_of_compares(list_of_strings):
>     list_of_lists_of_fields = [row.split() for row in
list_of_strings]
>     num_rows = len(list_of_lists_of_fields)
>     for i in xrange(num_rows):
>         base_row = list_of_lists_of_fields[i]
>         for j in xrange(i+1, num_rows):
>             compare_fields(i, j, base_row,
list_of_lists_of_fields[j])
>

Thanks for your help.


> You can do better with enumerate, itertools and other things which
2.2
> didn't have, but sets wouldn't help.  Now, I hope this clarifies the
> many unanswered questions which your 'specs' leave open, so you can
work
> out exactly what you want.
>
> And, btw: upgrate to 2.4.  Sets or no sets, the performance
enhancement
> by itself will be vastly sufficient to repay whatever inconvenience
you
> think the upgrade might 

Not in my hands. 

- Hari

> 
> Alex



From jubafre at atlas.ucpel.tche.br  Tue Nov  2 11:42:48 2004
From: jubafre at atlas.ucpel.tche.br (Juliano Freitas)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 14:42:48 -0200
Subject: document as child in DOM ??
Message-ID: <1099413768.2759.16.camel@swdb>

I have a document as a string:

xmltext = """<?xml version='1.0'?>
<root>
	<parara>text</parara>
</root>"""

then i transform the string into a document with fromString method.

i want tu put this "xmltext" as a child to another document called
"swdb"?
how can i do this??

<swdb>
  <root>
	<parara>text</parara>
  </root>
...
</swdb>

i tryed the importNode and appendNode, but i dont if i'm doing right!

Juliano Freitas



From pythongnome at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 30 17:13:55 2004
From: pythongnome at hotmail.com (Lucas Raab)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 22:13:55 GMT
Subject: Protecting Python source
In-Reply-To: <coi28l$rkv$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
References: <f4a45085.0411260701.5859bf43@posting.google.com>	<lnSpd.18976$Km6.232360@news4.e.nsc.no>	<coesrc$24i$1@swifty.westend.com>	<mailman.6877.1101742321.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cofrqd$1d5$1@swifty.westend.com>	<41ab74f4$0$85031$a1866201@visi.com>	<cohcug$ert$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<mailman.6927.1101825487.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<coi28l$rkv$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <Dg6rd.10900$Ua.7464@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Gustavo C?rdova Avila wrote:
> 
>> Peter Maas wrote:
>>
>>> Grant Edwards schrieb:
>>>
>>>> On 2004-11-29, Peter Maas <peter at somewhere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If the "reverse engineering" argument boils down to "protecting source
>>>>> doesn't make sense" then why does Microsoft try so hard to  protect
>>>>> its sources?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To avoid embarassment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> :) This cannot be the whole truth otherwise they wouldn't release
>>> embarrasing binaries.
>>
>>
>> BWAAHHAHAHA!!!
>>
>> Damn you!! Coke is so hard to clean off a keyboard!!
> 
> 
> Yeah, I hate the way the powder builds up between the keys.
> 
> Oh.
> 
> You meant the _drink_...
> 
> -Peter

Nice. Very nice!!


From bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca  Sat Nov  6 12:55:03 2004
From: bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca (Brian van den Broek)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 12:55:03 -0500
Subject: Newsgroup mood [was] why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <418D0FF7.3070106@po-box.mcgill.ca>

Alex Martelli said unto the world upon 2004-11-06 02:12:
> Hans Nowak <hans at zephyrfalcon.org> wrote:

<SNIP>

>>
>>Is it just me, or is the climate in c.l.py getting less friendly to 
>>newbies?  In any case, 
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, I sort of share your perception -- and I have
> noticed the same thing, and seen it remarked upon by others, in other,
> completely unrelated newsgroups as well, such as it.comp.macintosh.
> 
> It's not, I think, about newbies in general: people who come and post
> help requests, without giving the information that's quite obviously
> indispensabile to let us help them, keep getting treated with
> unreasonable amounts of friendliness and courtesy even after many
> requests for more info go unheeded, for example.
> 
> However, newbies who are clueless enough to come blasting in with the
> usual whines we've heard a zillion times -- Macs cost too much, Python
> is too slow, there's no apps for Macs, Python must absolutely add
> feature X or it will die, Apple's gonna go broke tomorrow, etc, etc --
> do appear to get on our collective nerves worse than their essentially
> indistinguishable precursors did last year, two years ago, &c.
> 
> The accusation of being a troll often follows, breaking the old advice
> to "Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by
> incompetence".  Maybe it's a case of the corollary to that old advice,
> "Sufficiently advanced cluelessness is indistinguishable from malice".
> But why that should be so this year more than last year, say, is not
> clear to me...
> 
> 
> Alex

Hi all,

I should say up front that I'm a relative newcomer to technical
newsgroups and mail-lists myself, so these comments aren't backed-up by
years of observation. I'd also like to make clear that I am responding
with general observations to what I took to be general observations in
the quoted msgs above; I don't think any of Alex, Hans, or I intend to
be talking about any one post or poster. Last, having just finished
writing this email, I see it got a bit long. There is a concrete
proposal at the end, so I invite those who feel its a ramble to skip
down 5 or so paragraphs.

The thread has offered donor fatigue and old-hands drifting away as 
partial explanations, but I'd say any decline in newbie-friendliness 
must be at least partly explained by success. Many in the Python 
community seem to share the laudable goal of spreading Python, and not 
just to the already technically informed. From Guido's Computing For 
Everybody project, to the ever-patient folks on the tutor list, to any 
number of other manifestations one could point to, the Python community 
seems to have a "Welcome. You don't have to know what a dip-switch is to 
enter here" sign up. That's a good thing. But, if it works (and it 
does--witness this post ;-), it brings in people who don't know the 
social norms.

That community attitude doesn't necessarily explain the Mac list Alex
cites. (I've not read the list, so cannot say.) But there too, there
must be an upsurge of new folk who finally got tired of doing what Bill
told them to do. (Among my circle, about 1 frustrated Windows user
every month or two switches to Macs.) So, it both cases, it is likely to
be driven by continued expansion of the membership outside the bounds of
those who know what elm and pine are.

Python might also be vulnerable to a strange, paradoxical phenomena: it
a way, it seems the more people get for less ($ or effort) the more they
expect. I'm on a list for 2 shareware products, a few freeware (beer
sense) ones, and a few open-source. People do seem to demand more of
list membership and project owners the more free the project is. That
one puzzles me, but I guess helps explain why the non-free,
non-responsive Redmond machine still is widely accepted.

Of all the lists (tech and non) I have read, the Python lists are among
the most tolerant and welcoming. It certainly took me a few tries to
get reasonably close to appropriate form. But, not once was I flamed or 
more than gently nudged in the right direction. This friendliness is 
important, to be valued, and I think protected. (I recall a post I made 
to a LUG asking for help with an aborted attempt to get Linux and my 
laptop's Winmodem to co-operate. I was flamed because my mail headers 
indicated that I was using Thunderbird on *Windows* -- the horror! -- 
Not the way to welcome people to the world of Linux.)

But, if Python's increase in user-base continues, on these issues onward
and downward seems all too possible.

So, what to do? Well, I've just subscribed to the list on another
address to check, and there is nothing in the welcome message giving
people new to newsgroups and mail-lists a "Newbie's Introduction to the
Medium". Nor is there a recap posted in the monthly subscription reminder.

I'm not a fan of 'Official List Rules' full of "Thou shalt"s and that's 
not what I am suggesting. I am also aware that many of the people whose 
post exasperate are also the people least likely to read or attend to 
such introductions. But, still, something along the lines might help.

What I have in mind is a wiki-page or three with links prominently
located in the welcome message and the reminder message. I could see at
least three distinct pages being of use. In rapid-sketch mode:

1) Welcome to the list, here are our norms
At minimum, a short 1-2 paragraph distillation of "Smart Questions", a 
link to it, a reminder of the existence of the tutor list, and links to 
the other two here mentioned.

2) How to find information about Python
Links to one or more of the comp.lang.python archives with perhaps some
advice for optimal searching. This could include a link to a quick "How
to google".
Perhaps a link to Mark Hammond's wicked-cool Python Sidebar for 
Firefox/Mozilla <http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/mozilla/> and 
to any other similar aids.

3) Links to threads that answer common questions
Yes, there is an FAQ and yet people still ask why Python gets division
wrong. But I've often seen people dig up links to threads for questions
perhaps not so common to be written up in an FAQ, but perhaps common
enough to merit linking on a wiki page. I'm not under the illusion that 
it would solve the problem on its own, but it might well head some 
repeat questions off. For those it doesn't, it would give an easy way to 
answer.

Yes, some (or even all) of this info is already on Python.org. But this
way would allow it to be audience-tailored and to be ultra-easy to
direct newbie's toward. And yes, not all newbies read Eric Raymond's 
"Smart Questions" essay within the first 5 times they are pointed at it. 
Clearly it won't be a silver bullet, but maybe it would help.

As a relative newbie myself, I think I might make a better person to
start off (1) and (2) than some of the old-hands who are further away
from the newbie mindset. And, on the "talk not followed by effort is
chatter" principle, I surely ought volunteer, too ;-) I'm happy to do
so, provided 1) it doesn't strike people as a silly or hopelessly naive
idea, 2) I'm not committed to providing a proof of concept within the
next week :-) , and 3) I can count on other's to do the wiki thing to my 
starting effort.

So, if anyone's still reading, thanks. I'm curious to see if the
suggestion seems worthwhile. Best to all,

Brian vdB



From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Fri Nov  5 08:26:22 2004
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 13:26:22 -0000
Subject: Add a file to a compressed tarfile
References: <pan.2004.11.05.13.13.16.645896@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <opsgzt98rb13dtg9@vpn-client-248-060.london.eur.slb.com>

On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 00:13:16 +1100, Dennis Hotson <djdennie69 at hotmail.com>  
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to write a function that adds a file-like-object to a
> compressed tarfile...  eg ".tar.gz" or ".tar.bz2"
>
> I've had a look at the tarfile module but the append mode doesn't support
> compressed tarfiles... :(
>
> Any thoughts on what I can do to get around this?
>
> Cheers!


 From the tarfile docs in python 2.3:-

New in version 2.3.

The tarfile module makes it possible to read and create tar archives. Some  
facts and figures:

reads and writes gzip and bzip2 compressed archives.
creates POSIX 1003.1-1990 compliant or GNU tar compatible archives.
reads GNU tar extensions longname, longlink and sparse.
stores pathnames of unlimited length using GNU tar extensions.
handles directories, regular files, hardlinks, symbolic links, fifos,  
character devices and block devices and is able to acquire and restore  
file information like timestamp, access permissions and owner.
can handle tape devices.

open(	[name[, mode [, fileobj[, bufsize]]]])	
Return a TarFile object for the pathname name. For detailed information on  
TarFile objects, see TarFile Objects (section 7.19.1).

mode has to be a string of the form 'filemode[:compression]', it defaults  
to 'r'. Here is a full list of mode combinations:

mode 	action 	
'r'	Open for reading with transparent compression (recommended).	
'r:'	Open for reading exclusively without compression.	
'r:gz'	Open for reading with gzip compression.	
'r:bz2'	Open for reading with bzip2 compression.	
'a' or 'a:'	Open for appending with no compression.	
'w' or 'w:'	Open for uncompressed writing.	
'w:gz'	Open for gzip compressed writing.	
'w:bz2'	Open for bzip2 compressed writing.	

Note that 'a:gz' or 'a:bz2' is not possible. If mode is not suitable to  
open a certain (compressed) file for reading, ReadError is raised. Use  
mode 'r' to avoid this. If a compression method is not supported,  
CompressionError is raised.

If fileobj is specified, it is used as an alternative to a file object  
opened for name.


HTH,
Martin.


-- 
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/



From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Nov 25 13:49:19 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 10:49:19 -0800
Subject: general class functions
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E32452B8@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

syd wrote:
> Thanks for everyone's help on this thread.  Right now, I've got a
> general class ("Container") holding items that can be accessed by item
> attribute values through __getattr__ functions.
> 
> My various classes use Container as a subclass.  Right now, I 
> keep both
> classes  in the same file, and everything works great.  
> However, when I
> move Container to a separate file and "from myClasses import 
> Container"
> to use this general class, I seem to lose all of the __getattr__
> functionality while retaining the other functions in Container.
> Does anyone know why this happens and how I can get around this??

Not without seeing some code. Show us your Container class and one of
the callers.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Nov 16 15:53:09 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 15:53:09 -0500
Subject: Pyrex on Windows
In-Reply-To: <cndhhj$gfk$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <99230dbb.0411141332.3594e925@posting.google.com>
	<cndhhj$gfk$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <419A68B5.3040405@cloudthunder.com>

Mike Rovner wrote:

> SM wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I would like to play with Pyrex for Windows. I have no clue how to
>> install it including a c compiler. Anyone using pyrex on windows who
>> could give a quickstart?
>> Stani
>
>
> You better have some clues about C language first including installing 
> a compiler and writing some sample programms.

Sounds good, but then again, he said he wanted to _play_ with Pyrex, why 
discourage him?

>
> If you skip that step you likely be stucked in debris of _compiled_ 
> Pyrex programs you'll have absolutely no idea how to dial with.
>
> Once you mastered that you can simply use distutils to _invoke_ C 
> compiler in order to get you .pyd files.
>
> Mike
>
What are you trying to tell him Mike?


From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Thu Nov 11 15:40:34 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (Premshree Pillai)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:40:34 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: I don't quite get this "string".find()
In-Reply-To: <4193ccd1$0$87167$a1866201@visi.com>
Message-ID: <20041111204034.59831.qmail@web8506.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote: 
> On 2004-11-12, Caleb Hattingh <caleb1 at telkomsa.net>
> wrote:
> 
> > I don't know why the function was set up this way.
>  However, an empty  
> > string can be found in an infinite number of
> places within any other  
> > string.
> 
> How so?  There aren't an infinite number of places
> _in_ a
> finite-length string.

What he probably meant was that you can find a zillion
empty strings between any two characters. That way.

IAC, find() returns the first position in the string
where the character/string is found -- which obviously
is 0.

> 
> -- 
> Grant Edwards                   grante            
> Yow!  Mr and Mrs PED, can I
>                                   at              
> borrow 26.7% of the RAYON
>                                visi.com           
> TEXTILE production of the
>                                                   
> INDONESIAN archipelago?
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>  

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partner online
Go to: http://yahoo.shaadi.com/india-matrimony


From grante at visi.com  Wed Nov 10 15:21:45 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 20:21:45 GMT
Subject: sockets: How to know when your data is sent
References: <f00811ba.0411090653.5f6d1d29@posting.google.com>
	<4190e27f$0$95596$a1866201@visi.com>
	<K4k*FXdzq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
	<4190fdab$0$87168$a1866201@visi.com>
	<d52c72d204111007051b914191@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.6236.1100117276.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41927858$0$95600$a1866201@visi.com>

On 2004-11-10, Gandalf <gandalf at geochemsource.com> wrote:

>>Woah!  This is all enlightening news to me.  Of course, what
>>little bit of socket level stuff I've done, I've always had a
>>"send/acknowledge" type protocol wrapped around.  I guess I've
>>just been lucky so far :-).
>
> Oh yeah. I did the same and I realized that the response time
> can be very long.

For a badly designed protocol, it can.

> I had to reconsider my protocol, and use as few send/ack pairs
> as possible. No matter if you have a broadband connection or
> not - it can be VERY slow if your protocol uses many send/ack
> pairs.

The answer is to use a sliding window protocol.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm having a
                                  at               RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCE... and
                               visi.com            I don't take any DRUGS


From syd.diamond at gmail.com  Fri Nov  5 08:32:21 2004
From: syd.diamond at gmail.com (syd)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 05:32:21 -0800
Subject: two new wrinkles to the general class!
References: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>
	<kj9eo0hkjem9pbj3pvdbpea6gpl06ighsj@4ax.com>
	<1099537038.677930.245340@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<10oj86oh8nfi8ad@corp.supernews.com>
	<1099585325.926097.5450@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<10ol40eoab73d86@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1099661541.557231.222720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Good thinking!  I'll give my take on the two suggestions below...

>     desired_class = globals()[desired_empty_class_string]
>     myobject = desired_class()

I understands your hesitation about using this, although this is
relatively more portable in that you don't need to have the dictionary
passed around.  One limitation is subclassing, ie, you could not do
globals()['Library.Nation_A']. You can get around this by splitting the
string by '.' and recursively using getattr() to get subclasses in your
split list.

>     LibraryFactory = { 'Library': Library, 'Nation_A':Nation_A, ... }

>     myobject = LibraryFactory[desired_empty_class_string]()

This works well, too, as long as you define this outside the classes
after you've defined everything.  This limits portability a bit though,
because you a 'from myClasses import Library' would not grab the
LibraryFactory.

--------------------------------------------------
On a related note, is there a good way from within a class to get the
name in the simple form?  Ie,

# str(library.__class__)
"<class 'foo2.Library'>"

I'm looking for something more along these lines:
# hypotheticalMethod(library)
'Library'



From benji at benjiyork.com  Fri Nov  5 13:16:47 2004
From: benji at benjiyork.com (Benji York)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 12:16:47 -0600
Subject: pep 336: Make None Callable
In-Reply-To: <f03f4fdf0411050656504b81f8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>	
	<f03f4fdf04110407394b24e7cd@mail.gmail.com>	
	<418AE21B.6040905@benjiyork.com>
	<f03f4fdf0411050656504b81f8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <418BC38F.5040705@benjiyork.com>

Chris Cioffi wrote:
> <lame face saving attempt>At least _most_ of those are classes as
> opposed to primitives...</lame face saving attempt>

No face-saving needed. :)  The most used ones are None, True, and False 
which are indeed "primitives".  I was just being a bit pedantic.
-- 
Benji York
benji at benjiyork.com



From jerf at jerf.org  Mon Nov 29 00:11:44 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 00:11:44 -0500
Subject: The use of :
References: <89cc6e1f.0411251858.40b6bbc7@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.26.08.33.40.219098@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<89cc6e1f.0411260953.4b6b98e7@posting.google.com>
	<zyUpd.6$d74.2@read3.inet.fi>
	<41aa1abb$0$25542$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<30ukhmF357ptdU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<Avpqd.55491$Ni.1918466@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.29.05.11.43.180223@jerf.org>

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 19:17:52 +0000, gabriele renzi wrote:
> are they really?
> if <expression> <expressions>
> and the likes would invho parse just fine

if "" "a" print "Hi"

Does that print Hi or not?

Dig deeper into Python grammar; make sure you know that statements and
expressions are different, and the counter-example above is based on
Python's string concatenation rules:

Python 2.3.4 (#1, Oct 26 2004, 20:13:42) 
[GCC 3.4.2  (Gentoo Linux 3.4.2-r2, ssp-3.4.1-1, pie-8.7.6.5)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> "a" "b"
'ab'


The question is, what is the "<expression>", "" or "" "a"? The first is
false, the second true.

(At this point the natural response of many people is to start adding
rules and exceptions and "well, obviously"s... but none of them will beat
if <expression>:, or justify the removal of a colon if you compare back
to the original; that's the *real* competition. This is just a pre-emptive
point 'cause I've seen people do this sort of thing too often, it isn't
targetted directly at you, gabriele.)

A completely new grammar could certainly do away with it and there are
languages that can do that, but you almost certainly won't be able to get
there from here via incremental changes. (Forth is close but it is spelled
differently. Lisp natually encapsulates all expressions; I don't think it
quite captures the spirit of what I think you're getting at, but for the
Lisp definition of "expression", it works.)


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sun Nov 14 10:25:04 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 09:25:04 -0600
Subject: numarray memory leak
In-Reply-To: <cn780v$ho6$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk> (Peter Dobcsanyi's message of
	"14 Nov 2004 09:20:31 GMT")
References: <cn6fk4$akl$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk> <cn6hpm$m5b$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<cn780v$ho6$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <m31xewsban.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "Peter" == Peter Dobcsanyi <peter at designtheory.org> writes:


    Peter> With n a few hundreds (say n>=500), the continuous growth
    Peter> of the program's memory footprint is quite noticeable. I am
    Peter> working on Linux (Debian testing), I monitor the memory
    Peter> usage of the program by top.  The allocated memory is never
    Peter> released.

    Peter> I have noticed this problem of memory leak in connection
    Peter> with numarray a few months ago in a program of mine. The
    Peter> program processes the incidence matrices of thousands of
    Peter> combinatorial structures read from a file one by one. As
    Peter> the number of combinatorial objects went up I started
    Peter> running out of memory even on a machine with 2 Gbyte
    Peter> memory.  It took me a while to pinpoint that it was caused
    Peter> by matrix multiplication.

    Peter> I will try the CVS.

Yep, numarray 1.1 has a memory leak in dot, which Matrix multiply
uses.  It also has a leak in cumulative boolean functions like
sometrue.  Both are fixed in CVS.

JDH


From McMeng at gmail.com  Fri Nov 26 00:21:54 2004
From: McMeng at gmail.com (McMeng at gmail.com)
Date: 25 Nov 2004 21:21:54 -0800
Subject: I installed Zope X3 on Windows 2003, but how to start it?
Message-ID: <1101446514.209755.293770@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
I am new to Zope. I downloaded the Zope X3 Windows installer and
install it, everything is okay. But how to start it? I typed

'http://localhost:8080/manage'

in my browser but get a 'can not find server' error.

I read the Zope book, but did not solve the problem. It seems that
the zope service is not active. 

  Thanks for any help.



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Nov 25 03:14:10 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 09:14:10 +0100
Subject: namespace & imported modules
References: <799208ed.0411232158.2a6d0782@posting.google.com>
	<co1fmi$ugu$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<799208ed.0411241355.1f9dcedb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <co448e$qci$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Jason wrote:

> def main():
>     # launch WatchDog timer thread
>     bcast_watchdog = hb_global.WatchDog(timeout=3)

[...]

> The last line in hb_stethoscope.py, hb_global.bcast_watchdog.reset(),
> is _supposed_ to call the WatchDog.reset() class instance method in
> hb_global.py.

It seems you are creating bcast_watchdog as a local variable in
__main__.main(). How would you suppose it to become magically inserted in
the hb_global namespace? Do

def main():
    bcast_watchdog = hb_global.WatchDog(timeout=3)
    hb_global.bcast_watchdog = bcast_watchdog

to insert the WatchDog instance into the hb_global module. (Note that there
may be other problems as I didn't look any further)

Peter


From larsmtl at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  3 11:37:54 2004
From: larsmtl at yahoo.com (LarsenMTL)
Date: 3 Nov 2004 08:37:54 -0800
Subject: Python CGI - Accepting Input, Invoking Another Process, Ending CGI
Message-ID: <99351542.0411030837.beea2c7@posting.google.com>

Python Users:

Based on previous suggestions from this group, I'm attempting to write
a python CGI that takes input from an HTML form, invokes a second
python script using this input, tells the user that their process has
started, ends the cgi output and later emails the results of the
invoked script.

My problem is that no mater how I invoke the 2nd script (spawnlp with
P_NOWAIT, system with &, etc..) the CGI caller continues to run until
it finishes.  If you press the stop button or close the browser
certain portions of the 2nd script finish but not all of it.  In
paticular the 2nd script uses teTex (invoked by os.system) to process
some tex files, this always errors out if the browser is closed or
stopped.

Regardless of all that, what is the proper way to have a python CGI
batch another python script?

Thanks,

Mark


From craig at yuma.ca  Sun Nov 21 10:29:32 2004
From: craig at yuma.ca (craig)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 08:29:32 -0700
Subject: instant messenging
References: <d01od.8535$Qh3.3891@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <2004112108293216807%craig@yumaca>

On 2004-11-21 06:47:53 -0700, Lucas Raab <pythongnome at hotmail.com> said:

> craig wrote:
>> On 2004-11-19 15:08:24 -0700, Lucas Raab <pythongnome at hotmail.com> said:
>> 
>>> Are there any instant messenging programs out there for use in a Python 
>>> app?? I've heard of Jabber, but never looke into it.
>> 
>> 
>> There are other instant messaging platforms, besides jabber.  I use 
>> AIM(AOL Instant Messenger) quite a bit, and here is a python 
>> implementation: http://www.jamwt.com/Py-TOC/
>> 
>> I use it as a BOT, I can share my code if you care.
>> 
>> Hope this helps,
>> -Craig
>> 
> 
> Thank you. Please do.

http://www.yuma.ca/wordpress/index.php?p=118

It's not remotely close to a good release, and the code isn't error 
checked very well, but my bot (yumatito) has been up about 7 days now 
on AIM without crashing, that's a good sign :P  His torrent download 
ability doesn't work yet, the code is there,  but broken, as I haven't 
completely grasped how the btdownload code works yet.. feel free to fix 
that for me :P

Hope this helps,
Craig



From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Mon Nov 22 03:54:35 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 00:54:35 -0800
Subject: CGI email script
References: <db4aff64.0411201402.66600328@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0411220054.6b686323@posting.google.com>

>     server.set_debuglevel(1)

Note that this line will cause debug messages to be printed before the
start of your HTML.

I've done a set of three functions for sending mail from CGI - one of
them should work ! I usually end up using the sendmailme function,
which isn't cross platform.

import os
import sys

SENDMAIL = "/usr/sbin/sendmail"             # location of sendmail on
the server

#############################################################
# Three alternative methods of sending email
# Which one works will depend on your server setup.

def mailme(to_email, email_subject, msg, from_email=None,
host='localhost'):
    """A straight email function using smtplib.
    With localhost set as host, this will work on many servers.
    """
    head = "To: %s\r\n" % to_email 
    if from_email:
        head = head + ('From: %s\r\n' % from_email)
    head = head + ("Subject: %s\r\n\r\n" % email_subject)
    msg = head + msg
    import smtplib
    server = smtplib.SMTP(host)
    server.sendmail(from_email, [to_email], msg)
    server.quit()
       

def sendmailme(to_email, email_subject, msg, from_email=None,
sendmail=SENDMAIL ):
    """Quick and dirty, pipe a message to sendmail.
    Can only work on UNIX type systems with sendmail.
    Will need the path to sendmail - can be specified in the
'SENDMAIL' default (see top of this script).
    """
    o = os.popen("%s -t" %  sendmail,"w")
    o.write("To: %s\r\n" %  to_email)
    if from_email:
        o.write("From: %s\r\n" %  from_email)
    o.write("Subject: %s\r\n" %  email_subject)
    o.write("\r\n")
    o.write("%s\r\n" % msg)
    o.close()                    

def loginmailme(to_email, email_subject, msg, host, user, password,
from_email=None ):
    """Email function for an smtp server you need to login to.
    Needs hostname, username, password etc.
    """
    head = "To: %s\r\n" % to_email 
    if from_email:
        head = head + ('From: %s\r\n' % from_email)
    head = head + ("Subject: %s\r\n\r\n" % email_subject)
    msg = head + msg

    import smtplib
    server = smtplib.SMTP(host)
    server.login(user, password)
    server.sendmail(from_email, [to_email], msg)
    server.quit()


From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Wed Nov 24 10:46:09 2004
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:46:09 GMT
Subject: itertools.islice and slice objects
References: <iNLod.382692$wV.233883@attbi_s54>
Message-ID: <512pd.4883$356.3712@trndny04>

[Steven Bethard]
> Is there a reason that itertools.islice doesn't support None arguments
> for start and step?  This would be handy for use with slice objects

Offhand, this seems like a reasonable idea.  Please file a Py2.5 feature request
and assign to me.


> Of course, I can get (start, stop, step) tuples with slice.indices, but
> only if I know the length of the iterable, which kinda defeats the
> purpose of using itertools...

The main purpose is to extract elements one at time instead of all at once.
This memory friendly approach results in better scalability.


Raymond Hettinger




From shashishekar.jagadish at hp.com  Thu Nov 18 01:45:44 2004
From: shashishekar.jagadish at hp.com (shashi)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 22:45:44 -0800
Subject: Need help with Serial port communication
Message-ID: <f52203d6.0411172245.6d928c29@posting.google.com>

I am trying to implement the following
-> Capability to interact with server during boot via serial port
-> Cause server to crash (TOC) on command.

The setup is we are managing many servers, and remotely rebooting and
configuring the servers, when rebooting we would like to control the
booting process (intel machine).

For non Intel machine (HP-UX to be specific) we can do that using GSP
(Telnet).

Need help or ideas how it could be done on intel machines (Linux &
Windows) using serial port.

Thank you.
shashi


From ded-bounces at foo.net  Fri Nov 19 06:32:18 2004
From: ded-bounces at foo.net (dkcpub)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:32:18 GMT
Subject: Identifying exceptions that can be raised
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6579.1100837821.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cVdnd.7986$tS4.4873@trndny09>
	<mailman.6579.1100837821.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6Rknd.6671$%M4.4203@trndny08>

Brian van den Broek wrote:
> If you mean you want a list of exceptions that a given function could 
> raise, well, never mind :-)

Yeah, that is what I mean.  I write foo(), which calls a half-dozen 
library functions.  What exceptions is a caller of foo() going to have 
to handle?  It there an automated way of discovering that?

/Dan


From Kingdom.Lin at yeah.net  Sat Nov 20 04:44:04 2004
From: Kingdom.Lin at yeah.net (Casper)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 17:44:04 +0800
Subject: Is Python/C api thread safety enough?
Message-ID: <20041120094346.9AD341E4002@bag.python.org>

i make a multi thread C/C++ program emded python, each thread running a python sub-interpreter, to make it safety i make code as following between acquire/release the globle interpreter lock:
		Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
		func_take_a_long_time()
		Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS
according to the python document this will avoid to block other thread that running python code since the function will take a long time, but i am wandered if the code of func_take_a_long_time() call a Python/C api, is this conflict with other threads and cause fatal error? i have release the interpreter lock in Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS and without protected from thread conflict, so if the func_take_a_long_time() call a Python/C api, it perhaps use other thread's context to running python code.

Can sombody tell me is this possible? Thanks first.


Donnie Leen





From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Wed Nov  3 06:30:08 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:30:08 +0100
Subject: Should I learn Python?
References: <624a388a.0411021328.5ac41f4c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.03.11.30.08.426745@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:28:22 -0800 schrieb Sam:

> Hi, 
> I have been developing sites and cms's for the past few years using
> PHP and mysql. I've been interested in learning a new language and was
> considering Python. I have a pretty decent grasp of OOP concepts (i
> know, you're skeptical since I mentioned PHP). I don't have a formal
> programming background, just learning as I go.
> 
> So, with that being said, here are some dumb questions.
> 
> 1. What can I do with Python that I can't do with php? 

AFAIK there is no object database like ZODB (or Durus) for php.

> 2. Do you use both PHP and Python in conjunction with each other?

No. Only python, a little shell (bash) and calling external programms with
os.system or popen.

 Thomas



From caleb1 at telkomsa.net  Thu Nov 25 21:48:52 2004
From: caleb1 at telkomsa.net (Caleb Hattingh)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 21:48:52 -0500
Subject: dictionary initialization
References: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<opsh1u2sow1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
	<slrncqcchi.i1p.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <opsh1wrqdr1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>

Hi

I apologise, but I don't actually know what the problem is?  If you could  
restate it a little, that would help.

I didn't check the code I posted earlier;  This below is checked:
***
# Dont use a={}, just start as below
'>>> a['1']=0
'>>> a['1']+=1
'>>> a
{'1': 1}
***

Like I said, I am unsure of what your specific problem is?

Thanks
Caleb


On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 19:27:46 +0000 (UTC), Weiguang Shi  
<wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> In article <opsh1u2sow1js0xs at news.telkomsa.net>, Caleb Hattingh wrote:
>> ...
>> Dict entries accessed with 'string' keys,
> Not necessarily. And doesn't make a difference in my question.
>
>> ...
>>
>> Which feature specifically do you want justification for?
> Have it your way: string-indexed dictionaries.
>
>    >>> a={}
>    >>> a['1']+=1
>    Traceback (most recent call last):
>      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>    KeyError: '1'
>
> a['1'] when it referenced, is detected non-existent but not
> automatically initialized so that it exists before adding 1 to its
> value.
>
> Weiguang



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Nov 17 01:27:01 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:27:01 +1100
Subject: Rounding curiosity
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE4A90C3@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

PyBo wrote:

> To all those who are feeling so smug and superior, perhapts you could
> have noticed that I was pointing out that the round() function does
> not perform as documented?

Your two initial emails never mentioned the round() documentation. I
fail to see how that counts as "pointing out" a possible deficiency in
the docs.

BTW, round() performs exactly as documented - it returns a floating
point number.

As for feeling smug and superior - how the hell did you construe that?
Not understanding floating point arithmetic is a very common mistake,
and many otherwise experienced programmers are surprised by it when they
come to Python because Python doesn't lie to you about it.

People (including myself) kindly pointed you towards documentation that
should ensure that you never make the mistake again. It's unlikely that
such people (including one of the most important developers of Python)
are likely to do so again. I *strongly* advise you to read the following
link.

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

> By the way,
>    print "%0.2f" % (5e8/(1024*1024))
> yields the same result as
>    print "%0.2f" % round(5e8/(1024*1024),2)
> so the 'round()' portion of the expression is superfluous.

In that particular case, sure - because you're only concerned about two
decimal places. Whatever's beyond that doesn't matter. It's only if you
*care* about the additional accuracy that it matters.

It's irrelevant though - the important part there is showing you how to
display 2 decimal places as you want.

Tim Delaney


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 18:26:40 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 18:26:40 -0500
Subject: thread.error: release unlocked lock
In-Reply-To: <cniqlj$2cqj$1@netnews.upenn.edu>
References: <cniqlj$2cqj$1@netnews.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <1f7befae04111815265167ce1c@mail.gmail.com>

[John P.Speno]
> So you have this problem, and you decide to use threads to solve it...
>
> System is Python 2.3.3 on Solaris 9.
>
> I'm using the classic Python thread model. Main thread puts stuff into
> a Queue.Queue() and worker threads get stuff out of it and do their
> thing.

A bounded queue or an unbounded queue?  Blocking get/put or
non-blocking get/put?  About how many items are in the queue?  Since
nobody has reported your symptom before, some detail or other is going
to be important.  How do the standard test_thread, test_threading, and
test_queue tests fare on this box?  Was this Python configured to use
pthreads or native Solaris threads?

> On occaision, I get an exception in the main thread when it tries to
> put something into the Queue.
>
>   File "/usr/local/bin/poller.py", line 47, in fragnap_it
>     work_queue.put((foo, bar, baz))
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/Queue.py", line 106, in put
>     self.fsema.release()
>   thread.error: release unlocked lock
> 
> Seems like a bad thing, and I'm not sure what can be done. Should I
> catch the thread.error and retry the put()? Or just give up and
> shutdown nicely?  (Or quickly finish the twisted version of this code?)
>
> Any idea on the underlying cause of this exception?

Something has gone insane -- this should be impossible.  fsema is a
mutex.  put() always acquires fsema.  Before it exits, put() releases
fsema again (unless the queue is bounded and put() has just filled
it).  The error you're seeing is the mutex complaining about an
attempt to release it when it's not in the acquired state (which
should be impossible because put() acquires fsema before this point).


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Wed Nov  3 19:33:02 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 16:33:02 -0800
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.4, beta 2
In-Reply-To: <41896EDA.5020805@python.org>
References: <41896EDA.5020805@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmbt9d$ecu$1@sea.gmane.org>

Anthony Baxter wrote:
> On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I'm
> happy to announce the second beta of Python 2.4.

Congratulations, another gold star.

-- 
-- Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org



From mghallNO at SPAMenteract.com  Wed Nov 10 15:31:56 2004
From: mghallNO at SPAMenteract.com (Mike Hall)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:31:56 -0600
Subject: How to find MAC address and uids?
References: <postmaster-718ADE.06591510112004@news1.east.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <gvadnf-phoIh5w_cRVn-iA@rcn.net>

Daniel T.  wrote:

>2) If I have a user name in a string how do I get his UID?

 "man getpwnam" might help you find an answer.




From agriff at tin.it  Tue Nov  2 01:44:20 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 06:44:20 GMT
Subject: general class functions
References: <a76ba315.0411011709.6456be65@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <kj9eo0hkjem9pbj3pvdbpea6gpl06ighsj@4ax.com>

On 1 Nov 2004 17:09:53 -0800, syd.diamond at gmail.com (syd) wrote:

>My question follows: is there a way I can make a general function for
>getting a subclass with my specific criteria?  For instance, can I
>pass in an equivalence test or something like that?  I have hundreds
>of variables like "nation", "continent", and so forth, and do want to
>write a separate "get______" function for each.

Adding the following method to Library

  def __getattr__(self,name):
    if name.startswith("get_"):
      attrname = name[4:]
      def filter(value):
        library=Library()
        for nation in self.list:
          if getattr(nation,attrname) == value:
            library.add(nation)
        return library
      return filter
    else:
      return self.__dict__[name]

you will be able to write

  L.get_continent('Europe').get_size('small')

because for anything starting with "get_..." will be
generated on the fly a filtering function that looks
for exact match of an attribute. No need for
getContinent, getSize, isContinent and isSize.

HTH
Andrea


From Florian.Wilhelm at web.de  Tue Nov  9 18:51:57 2004
From: Florian.Wilhelm at web.de (Florian Wilhelm)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 00:51:57 +0100
Subject: Problems with user input
References: <pan.2004.11.09.22.54.37.120023@web.de>
	<4191535c$0$9261$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.09.23.51.57.631585@web.de>

My OS is Linux 2.6.8.1 and Python version 2.3.4

I just want to write a function that, if called,
asks a yes/no question. The user should only need
to type one char, without confirming with enter. 

I wrote a function similar to following

import sys

print "Input: (y/N) ",
input = sys.stdin.read(1)
print "Your input:", input

If I execute these lines and type "y" followed by "enter".
I get this output

Input: (y/N) y
 Your input: y

The problem is that there is a whitespace in front of the
second line, that is not generated by the second print
statement. I dont understand why it appears...

It really has nothing to do with the second "print",
because following code:

import sys

print "Input: (y/N) ",
input = sys.stdin.read(1)
print "Hello World"
print "Your input:", input

produces this output...

Input: (y/N) y
 Hello World
Your input: y

Can somebody explain why the whitespace char appears
in front of "Hello World"???


From mj.clift at virgin.net  Mon Nov 15 11:43:01 2004
From: mj.clift at virgin.net (Malcolm Clift)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 08:43:01 -0800
Subject: range and wx co - ords
References: <a86fb13f.0411081407.3a382a6b@posting.google.com>
	<a86fb13f.0411091707.11be7433@posting.google.com>
	<4191dc09.80425295@news.oz.net>
	<a86fb13f.0411100936.7ce01770@posting.google.com>
	<a86fb13f.0411140445.40b2d44c@posting.google.com>
	<41985e17.97850521@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <a86fb13f.0411150843.3cd42104@posting.google.com>

Hi Bengt,

Sorry, I can see how vague my question is...

I am showing multiple pages at once.I suppose that the simplist way to
do it would be to have the position 'left' increase after so many
lines or so many characters. The problem with that is that  although 
I imagine  it  is very simple to do so I cannot work out how to say
for every say something like for every 500 characters (or every 5 or
so lines),  left = 100 +  say 1000.

As I said, at the moment I'm displaying multiple draggable pages (A4
bmps) and I have just started to realise how slow that will be.
Something akin to wading through mud :  ) So although it looks nice I
think that I might have to go for a single page display. If that's the
case could you give me some idea as to how I might define 'a new
page', with the option of going forward and backward through the
pages.You've done a lot for me already, so if that's more involved
than I think I would be greatful if you told me where I might start
looking for ways to do this.

Thanks,

Malcolm


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov  8 07:38:53 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 13:38:53 +0100
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmgcp1$hpk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncong4u.1tk.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmggel$t2o$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cmggh2$t2o$01$2@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5996.1099739023.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmil81$184$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoupsc.mcv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <cmnpct$f14$00$1@news.t-online.com>

> given the header file of the c++ lib, it should be possible to determine
> that at run-time. 
> Or, one could give the header file to the generic python wrapper module
> and tell the module also, with which compiler the c++ lib was compiled.

For a certain compiler, that might work. But usually, a shipped  c++ library
hasn't its header files attached to it. 

And as I said before: Not everything in c++ allows for direct translation.
Go take a look at sip or swig, and how to write wrappers for them - in
theory, its only copying the header file. In practice, some amount of extra
work has to be done.

And while it might be possible to make the dyn-wrapper know the internals of
certain compilers, keeping track of these is a tedious and errorprone task
- so why not instead let the compilers do that work? And voila, you've got
your average wrapper generator.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 16:03:36 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:03:36 GMT
Subject: pre-PEP generic objects
In-Reply-To: <41acd7fb$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <a8Oqd.110119$V41.14593@attbi_s52>
	<slrncqoio4.1uu.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<41acd7fb$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <He5rd.123976$5K2.72154@attbi_s03>

Scott David Daniels wrote:
> Nick Craig-Wood wrote:
> 
>> class Hash:
>>     def __init__(self, **kwargs):
>>         for key,value in kwargs.items():
>>             setattr(self, key, value)
>>     def __getitem__(self, x):
>>         return getattr(self, x)
>>     def __setitem__(self, x, y):
>>         setattr(self, x, y)
> 
> 
> You can simplify this:
> class Hash(object):
>     def __init__(self, **kwargs):
>         for key,value in kwargs.items():
>             setattr(self, key, value)
>     __getitem__ = getattr
>     __setitem__ = setattr

Oh, I guess I should mention that Hash actually does something Bunch is 
not intended to -- it supports __getitem__ style access in addition to 
dotted-attribute (__getattr__) style access.  Bunch is intended only to 
support dotted-attribute style access, though it does support the 
one-way conversion of a mapping object to a Bunch.

Steve


From none at none.com  Wed Nov 17 21:42:33 2004
From: none at none.com (Larry)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 02:42:33 GMT
Subject: ODBC Select
In-Reply-To: <iGTmd.22639$6q2.19314@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
References: <ggTmd.419457$D%.49733@attbi_s51>
	<iGTmd.22639$6q2.19314@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <t_Tmd.419570$D%.20650@attbi_s51>

> According to PEP 249, the return value for cursor.execute() is undefined 
> and there seems to be little documentation for the ODBC module, so my 
> guess (and I can't confirm it from home where I have no Windows) is that 
>   0 indicates "success" and has nothing to do with the number of 
> records.  Have you tried a "print cursor.fetchone()" to see if anything 
> is there?

Wow!
I feel silly!
Just as you said.
The records are there.
Thanks!

Larry


From ark at acm.org  Sat Nov  6 18:02:26 2004
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 23:02:26 GMT
Subject: PEP new assert idiom
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6Kcjd.72425$OD2.10528@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

"F?bio Mendes" <niels_bohr at uol.com.br> wrote in message 
news:mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list at python.org...

> I'm sorry if it's an replicate. Either my e-mail program is messing with
> things or the python-list sent my msg to /dev/null. I couldn't find
> anything related in previous PEP's, so here it goes a very early draft
> for a new "assert" syntax:

Do you have a use case?  That is, can you give a plausible example that 
shows why your proposal would be useful and how it would work?




From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Thu Nov  4 17:27:09 2004
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe Cavalaria)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 23:27:09 +0100
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmp6xu.zmiw6gs3250sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5890.1099529745.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmpyz8.11h86a71kjmdttN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5916.1099587353.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdntd$788$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5920.1099589545.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdrhf$d2c$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5925.1099594558.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10ol7sqdr84k619@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <418aacbd$0$32138$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Michael Hobbs wrote:

> Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
>> My point here is that I think in most code, even when people do a bunch
>> of bit-twiddling, they have a single underlying structure in mind, and
>> therefore you see them treat the bits as one of two things: (1) The
>> sequence of bits, i.e.
>> the untyped memory block, or (2) the intended structure.  IMHO, an
>> example of taking advantage of weak-typing would be a case where you
>> treat the bits as three different things: the sequence of bits, and two
>> (mutually exclusive) intended structures.
> 
> One word: union
Note that in the C standard, writing to part A of an union and reading from
part B is UB : undefined behavior and so it should *not* be used.


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Sat Nov 13 16:51:36 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 22:51:36 +0100
Subject: ANN: Frog 1.1 released (python 'blog' application)
Message-ID: <419681e8$0$559$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

I've just uploaded the Frog 1.1 release.

Frog is a blog (web log) system written in 100% Python.
It is a web application written for Snakelets.
It outputs XHTML, is fully unicode compatible, small,
and doesn't require a database.

You can read about it and download it here:
    http://snakelets.sourceforge.net/frog/

It's 58Kb if you already have Snakelets, otherwise 118Kb.

If you encounter bugs or problems, or want to give some
feedback, please let me know.


Enjoy,
--Irmen de Jong.


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Nov  8 13:33:24 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 10:33:24 -0800
Subject: Comparing two minidom objects
Message-ID: <727daa7e.0411081033.276d5eba@posting.google.com>

I'd like to compare two xml.dom.minidom objects, but the naive attempt fails:

>>> import xml.dom.minidom
>>> d1 = xml.dom.minidom.parse("ES.xml")
>>> d2 = xml.dom.minidom.parse("ES.xml")
>>> d1 == d2
False

My goal is to decide whether or not I need to prompt the user to save config
information at the end of a program run by generating a minidom object then
comparing it with the last saved version.

Thx,

Skip


From beps at emai.it  Sun Nov 21 17:02:58 2004
From: beps at emai.it (beps )
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:02:58 +0100
Subject: Tkinter Text widget - insert line
Message-ID: <cnr3al$t8h$1@news.newsland.it>

hello,
I have got a data list.
In my Text widget each data is between the previous and the next; so they
are whole in a only block.

How I have to create for each data a singu
Thank you very much!!!


-- 

questo articolo e` stato inviato via web dal servizio gratuito 
http://www.newsland.it/news segnala gli abusi ad abuse at newsland.it




From maxm at mxm.dk  Mon Nov 15 02:11:28 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 08:11:28 +0100
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <L0Tld.2114$nj.1155@lakeread01>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<boKdncuh1ZBxbgrcRVn-gA@giganews.com>
	<L0Tld.2114$nj.1155@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <41985663$0$272$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Steve Holden wrote:

> You managed to get it to run? I found the whole load opaque beyond 
> belief, and removed it after an hour's examination.

Where you on Windows or Linux?

-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From peter at somewhere.com  Fri Nov 19 07:12:13 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:12:13 +0100
Subject: Python client lib for PostgreSQL8
In-Reply-To: <419cb98c$1_3@omega.dimensional.com>
References: <cni6e4$dl9$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<419cb98c$1_3@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <cnko44$qro$1@swifty.westend.com>

Michael Fuhr schrieb:
>>Is there already a PyPgSQL version in CVS or another client library
>>that handles PostgreSQL 8?
> 
> 
> A lot of people like psycopg.
> 
> http://initd.org/software/initd/psycopg

Thanks, Michael. Does it handle PostgreSQL 8beta? I didn't try psycopg
yet because I used to work at a Win2k computer and wasn't able to
compile it. C++Builder didn't work and I was not in the mood to buy
MSVC for compiling Python extensions).

Now I've made the jump to a Linux workstation but I still prefer
software that I can install on several platforms without hassle.
I don't have any clue what advantages psycopg has over pyPgSQL.
Are there comparisons / benchmarks available?

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From dieringe at zedat.fu-berlin.de  Mon Nov 22 15:54:34 2004
From: dieringe at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Martin Dieringer)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:54:34 +0100
Subject: split large file by string/regex
References: <v5l872-sd4.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.6695.1101132348.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<7m9972-0c6.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>
	<30eu9qF2vfdciU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <a90a72-p2u1.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>

William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> writes:

> Martin Dieringer <dieringe at zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>> Jason Rennie <jrennie at csail.mit.edu> writes:
>> 
>> > On Mon, Nov 22, 2004 at 09:38:55AM +0100, Martin Dieringer wrote:
>> >> I am trying to split a file by a fixed string.
>> >> The file is too large to just read it into a string and split this.
>> >> I could probably use a lexer but there maybe anything more simple?
>> >
>> > If the pattern is contained within a single line, do something like this:
>> 
>> Hmm it's binary data, I can't tell how long lines would be. OTOH a
>> line would certainly contain the pattern as it has no \n in it... and
>> the lines probably wouldn't be too large for memory...
>
> man strings	(-o option)


this doesn't make sense at all

m.


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Nov 22 21:55:21 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 13:55:21 +1100
Subject: Python and generic programming
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE4A90ED@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

Carl Banks wrote:

>     @generic
>     def some_function(arg):
>         print "generic"
> 
>     @specializes(some_fuction,int)
>     def some_int_specific_function(arg):
>         print "int-specific"

A version that allows specialising on actual values, plus having more
than one specifier per function.

    import itertools

    def generic(genfunc):
        speclist = []
        specdict = {}

        def wrapf (arg):

            speclist2 = []

            try:
                speclist2 = specdict[arg]
            except KeyError:
                pass

            for specfunc, typ in itertools.chain(speclist2, speclist):
                try:
                    match = isinstance(arg, typ)
                except TypeError:
                    specfunc = None

                if match:
                    return specfunc(arg)

            return genfunc(arg)

        wrapf.speclist = speclist
        wrapf.specdict = specdict
        wrapf.func_name = genfunc.func_name # isn't this ok in 2.4?

        return wrapf

    def specializes(genf, *specifiers):

        try:
            while True:
                genf = genf.genfunc
        except AttributeError:
            pass
        
        def spd(specf):

            for specifier in specifiers:
                genf.speclist.append((specf, specifier))

                try:
                    genf.specdict[specifier].append((specf,
type(specifier)))
                except KeyError:
                    genf.specdict[specifier] = [(specf,
type(specifier))]

            return specf

        spd.genfunc = genf
        return spd

    # so my European friends don't get too upset
    specialises = specializes

    @generic
    def some_function(arg):
        print "generic"

    @specializes(some_function, int)
    def some_specific_function(arg):
        print "int-specific"

    @specializes(some_function, 1, 1.0)
    @specializes(some_function, 1L)
    def some_specific_function(arg):
        print "one-specific"

    some_function('abc')
    some_function(123)
    some_function(1)
    some_function(1.0)
    some_function(1L)

results in:

    generic
    int-specific
    float-specific
    one-specific
    one-specific
    one-specific

Still only deals with one argument at this point.

Tim Delaney


From rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it  Mon Nov  1 17:52:16 2004
From: rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it (gabriele renzi)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 22:52:16 GMT
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <cm57p7$8pp$1@star.cs.vu.nl>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de> <clvpa0$7ag$2@star.cs.vu.nl>
	<clvrk0$djr$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<4183f2b0$0$209$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<2uiaqmF2as1ihU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<4184c277$0$265$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<1gmirtb.dymeyujh00iuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4184fa72$0$226$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<10oaojs29dqctc7@news.supernews.com> <cm57p7$8pp$1@star.cs.vu.nl>
Message-ID: <A6zhd.12245$Es2.279532@twister2.libero.it>

Dirkjan Ochtman ha scritto:
>> Parrot was originally intended to run both Perl 6 and Perl 5. Adding
>> Python was an afterthought, and somewhat a consequence of an
>> April Fools joke. Some people think it still is.
> 
> 
> People have also been working on running PHP on Parrot, a Forth-like 
> language is reimplemented on Parrot, and Parrot developers are taking 
> Ruby into account as well. I don't know how much of an afterthought 
> Python-on-Parrot was, but it's certainly not a minor subject right now.

don't forget that they can run brainf**k :)

Anyway, an interesting reading on the subject is the blog from dan sugalski
www.sidhe.org/~dan/blog
especially when he goes deep in how to work out stuff like 'how to call
finalizers in languages that have totally different concepts of it'


From mfuhr at fuhr.org  Fri Nov  5 22:52:03 2004
From: mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr)
Date: 5 Nov 2004 20:52:03 -0700
Subject: executing python code
References: <cmgvvd$chn$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<418c0870$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
	<cmh1t7$d9p$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<418c0e56_1@omega.dimensional.com> <x7y8hfr9wu.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <418c4a63$1_3@omega.dimensional.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
> mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr) writes:
> > For security reasons it's usually wise to leave "." out of your PATH
>
> Actually, those reasons relate to having "." early in your path. If
> it's the last thing on your path, you won't trigger any trojan horses.

Putting "." lessens the chances of tripping over a trojan but it
doesn't eliminate the possibility entirely.  Think about typos or
commands that you thought were earlier in your path but aren't --
the latter might happen, for example, if you move to a different
OS and aren't aware that some commands are in a location that's not
in your default path.

Relying on "." being in your path might also lead you to write code
that breaks for somebody who doesn't have "." in their path.  An
example would be a Makefile or build script that runs other commands
in the same directory and assumes those commands will be in the
user's path.  It's sloppy to make that assumption, but people get
careless and sloppy things slip by.

But this is getting off topic for Python.

> I find that symlinking ~/src/python/mycode.py to ~/bin/mycode means I
> get to invoke it without having to specify the extension, and don't
> have to reinstall the file if I change it.

I sometimes do that as well.

-- 
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Fri Nov 19 09:09:42 2004
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 09:09:42 -0500
Subject: SPARK v.s. PLY
In-Reply-To: <2e37dc1.0411190044.27262bc9@posting.google.com>
References: <ed89f8f2.0411180648.49ac6763@posting.google.com>
	<2e37dc1.0411190044.27262bc9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041119140942.GA7460@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Vinay Sajip]
> SPARK and PLY are similar.

I used both in various projects.  Very shortly said, I found PLY to be
faster than SPARK but more demanding/restrictive on the grammar design.
PLY has a few conveniences (like detection of duplicated methods in
classes), while SPARK is more on the side of Pythonesque elegance.

As I like ease and beauty, I think I still prefer SPARK overall :-).

In many cases, my input files could be designed so to be easily broken
up in chunks by other means, and then parsed one chunk at a time; this
simple trick let me recover enough speed from SPARK so it is not an
annoyance in practice.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://pinard.progiciels-bpi.ca


From ed at leafe.com  Sun Nov  7 11:38:57 2004
From: ed at leafe.com (Ed Leafe)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 11:38:57 -0500
Subject: determine IP
In-Reply-To: <20041107160436.14104.654768190.divmod.quotient.1232@ohm>
References: <20041107160436.14104.654768190.divmod.quotient.1232@ohm>
Message-ID: <85030DD4-30DB-11D9-A056-003065B11E84@leafe.com>

On Nov 7, 2004, at 11:04 AM, exarkun at divmod.com wrote:

>> is there a cross platform way to determine a local machines IP on a
>> network (LAN or internet) in python?
>>
>
>     s = socket.socket()
>     s.connect(('google.com', 80))
>     print s.getsockname()

	If you are on a NAT machine on the local network, the above will 
return the public IP of the network. If you change the target from 
'google.com' to a machine on your subnet that will accept the 
connection, you'll get the local IP address.

      ___/
     /
    __/
   /
  ____/
  Ed Leafe
  http://leafe.com/
  http://dabodev.com/



From maxm at mxm.dk  Mon Nov 15 11:59:09 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:59:09 +0100
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6383.1100535480.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>	<boKdncuh1ZBxbgrcRVn-gA@giganews.com>
	<L0Tld.2114$nj.1155@lakeread01>	<41985663$0$272$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>	<ZR1md.4916$nj.2331@lakeread01>	<4198cc5f$0$258$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.6383.1100535480.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4198e036$0$289$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Tim Peters wrote:

>>and there being references to folders that don't exists in the Windows
>>install, so you need to guess which ones to use instead.
> 
> If you have more details about that, the zope3-dev list would be a
> better place to reveal them.

Shure. I wasn't bitching. I just tried the Window installer yesterday 
evening, so I haven't really had time to comment. But I crosspost this 
to z3dev (via gmane), and vill continue the discussion there.

I tried to follow the instructions in the Zope3Book at:

http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/Zope3Book/installzope3.html

Especially:

1.3.3  Creating a Zope Instance

It says:

"""
Creating a new instance is easy. Enter the Zope 3 directory and enter 
the following command:

1  /bin/mkzopeinstance -u username:password -d path/to/instance
"""

First problem here is that there is no obvious "Zope 3" directory on the 
windows installation.

Most of Z3 gets installed in site-packages, so I search that folder and 
find a "mkzopeinstance.py" file in:

     <PYTHON>\Lib\site-packages\zope\app\server

I run that, and nothing happens.

So I look on, and to my surprise i find a file called "mkzopeinstance" in:

     <PYTHON>\Scripts

Which isn't exactly logical. It is in the root of my Python install, and 
I didn't exactly remember that it wasn't there before ... I guess that 
must be the Zope 3 folder on Windows ;-)

I look into it and check that it isn't a shell script, rename it to 
"mkzopeinstance.py" and runs it. It creates an instance allright with 
all the skeleton files.

Now I want to start the server and look into the <INSTANCE>/bin where 
there is a "runzope" but no "runzope.bat". So I start to wonder if more 
files are going to have missing extension, so that I will need to spend 
the entire night appending ".py" to script in random order ;-)

So I gave up and went to bed, wanting to try again later when I had 
better time.

So I guess I spend enough time to be confused, but not enough to make 
constructive critiscism.


-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net  Tue Nov 16 17:38:01 2004
From: mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net (Jean Brouwers)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:38:01 GMT
Subject: get function arguments
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7BF1@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
	<mailman.6455.1100638487.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <161120041439081476%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>


Check the getargspec() function in the inspect module.

>>> import inspect
>>> def f(a, b, c, d=4, *args, **kwds):
...  pass          
... 
>>> inspect.getargspec(f)
(['a', 'b', 'c', 'd'], 'args', 'kwds', (4,))

>>> def g(a, b, c):
...  print inspect.getargspec(g)
... 
>>> g(1, 2, 3)
(['a', 'b', 'c'], None, None, None)


/Jean Brouwers
 ProphICy Semiconductor, Inc.

In article <mailman.6455.1100638487.5135.python-list at python.org>,
Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:

> Batista, Facundo <FBatista <at> uniFON.com.ar> writes:
> > [Steven Bethard]
> > #- >>> def myFunc(a,b,c='default'):
> > #- ...  pass
> > #- ...
> > #- >>> myFunc.func_code.co_varnames
> > #- ('a', 'b', 'c')
> > #- 
> > How do you do that from *inside* the function?
> 
> I'm not clear exactly what it is you're looking to do here -- could you
> elaborate?  If you're writing the function yourself, don't you know what
> arguments you wrote up in the def statement?
> 
> I'm hesitant to guess what it is you intend, but if you're just looking for
> the
> string names, this might work for you:
> 
> >>> def myFunc(a,b,c='default'):
> ...    print locals().keys()
> ... 
> >>> myFunc(1, 2)
> ['a', 'c', 'b']
> 
> My guess though is that if this is what you want, you might have a design
> problem there...  You should also be wary that this only really works in the
> first line of the function (or at least until you create another name in the
> function).
> 
> Steve
> 
>


From simonwittber at gmail.com  Thu Nov 11 03:23:26 2004
From: simonwittber at gmail.com (Simon Wittber)
Date: 11 Nov 2004 00:23:26 -0800
Subject: Status of BaseHTTPServer
Message-ID: <4e4a11f8.0411110023.52526404@posting.google.com>

BaseHTTPServer uses the mimetools module, which is deprecated. 

Are the maintainers of modules that are in the standard library listed
somewhere? Who could/should I send patches to?

Also, does anyone else find using the email module to decode HTTP POST
multipart data a bit weird? Are there any significant differences
between parsing HTTP POST requests and email messages, which would
warrant a special module for HTTP?

Hmmm.

Sw.


From jerry at jerrysievers.com  Mon Nov 29 17:12:44 2004
From: jerry at jerrysievers.com (Jerry Sievers)
Date: 29 Nov 2004 17:12:44 -0500
Subject: using os
References: <mailman.6890.1101764022.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3vfbocnj7.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>

Juliano Freitas <jubafre at atlas.ucpel.tche.br> writes:

> how can i get just the directories in other directorie without a
> files using the os module in Python??

If there's a command for listing only dirs, I've not stumbled on it.

Here's a one-liner using filter and lambda;

from os import listdir
from os.path import isdir

dir = '/tmp/'

onlyDirs = filter(lambda entry: isdir(dir + entry), listdir(dir))

HTH


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Sievers   305 854-3001 (home)     WWW ECommerce Consultant
                305 321-1144 (mobile	http://www.JerrySievers.com/


From finite.automaton at gmail.com  Tue Nov 23 17:56:27 2004
From: finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 14:56:27 -0800
Subject: drag and drop graphics in tkinter?
References: <e5063e96.0411221615.2741def4@posting.google.com>
	<41a2fb94$0$8155$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<e5063e96.0411231051.56728243@posting.google.com>
	<co02fn$t49$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4b39d922.0411231456.5a944a71@posting.google.com>

> > I'm looking for a way to use drag-and-dropping to pick up a graphic
> > and move it from one place to another. For example, I thought I could
> > get my feet wet by writing a script to represent small graphs (in the
> > nodes-and-vertices sense) as collections of dots and lines onscreen.
> > Moving the the dots around (while maintaining line-indicated
> > connections between dots) could furnish a graphical way of
> > investigating questions like planarity and isomorphism.

Yep, the canvas widget is the way to go.  You might also take a look
at wxPython instead of Tkinter -- if I recall correctly, there's some
kind of graph widget that might save you some time (run the demo.py
script to find it).   Also, as someone who has spent a lot of time
lately tinkering with graphs, I can highly recommend graphviz.  If you
haven't already looked at it, it's an excellent tool for graph layout.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  3 17:13:49 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 23:13:49 +0100
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gmp6xu.zmiw6gs3250sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:

> On the other hand, I haven't really seen any good
> cases for wanting weak-typing in a statically-typed language either.

How would an operating system's filesystems store arbitrary sequences of
bytes (which might be floats, int, whatever -- only the application
knows) into disk pages (blocks of, say , 4096 bytes each) otherwise?  Or
are you saying that operating systems' kernels should all be implemented
in dynamically-typed languages, or that the structureless filesystem
concept that was the fortune of Unix (and is common today to other OSs,
too), is not "good"?

Even if you design a new OS based on a filesystem whose files are all
"strongly typed" (EEK, but that's another issue), how do you have
interoperate with other boxes, with the whole internet, without the
ability to type-pun ("weak-typing") when necessary...?


Alex


From nmkolev at uni-bonn.de  Thu Nov  4 15:44:28 2004
From: nmkolev at uni-bonn.de (Nickolay Kolev)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 21:44:28 +0100
Subject: Extract Title from HTML documents
Message-ID: <cme4ae$12ci$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>

Hi all,

I am looking for a way to extract the titles of HTML documents. I have 
made an honest attempt at doing it, and it even works. Is there an 
easier (faster / more efficient / clearer) way?

------------ START SCRIPT --------------------

#!/usr/bin/python

import sgmllib

class MyParser(sgmllib.SGMLParser):

     inside_title = False
     title = ''

     def start_title(self, attrs):
         self.inside_title = True

     def end_title(self):
         self.inside_title = False

     def handle_data(self, data):
         if self.inside_title and data:
             self.title = self.title + data + ' '

p = MyParser()
p.feed(file('test.html').read())
p.close()
print p.title.strip()

---------------- END SCRIPT -------------------------


Many thanks in advance!

Best regards,
Nickolay Kolev


From hfellerm at uni-osnabrueck.de  Sat Nov 27 12:02:35 2004
From: hfellerm at uni-osnabrueck.de (hfellerm at uni-osnabrueck.de)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:02:35 +0100 (CET)
Subject: How to extend inner classes?
Message-ID: <34461.193.145.37.181.1101574955.squirrel@webmail.rz.uni-osnabrueck.de
	>

Hi all,

I try to implement a C extension module that uses inner classes. The
structure of the corresponding python code is the following:

class PeriodicGrid :
    class Pos :
        # [...]

class NofluxGrid :
    class Pos :
        # [...]

I wrote the PyTypeObjects for PeriodicGrid, NofluxGrid, PeriodicPos, and
NofluxPos. Now I want to add each PosType to the appropriate Grid's
dictionary, so that I can write something like

>>> from cGrid import *
>>> grid = PeriodicGrid(10,10)
>>> pos = grid.Pos(1,2)

in my python program. What is the general way to add class members
(instead of instance members which is done by a PyMemberDef array) to the
PyTypeObject?

Any help appreciated,

- harold -



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 16:43:22 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 21:43:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmp6xu.zmiw6gs3250sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5890.1099529745.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmpyz8.11h86a71kjmdttN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5916.1099587353.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdntd$788$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5920.1099589545.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdrhf$d2c$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5925.1099594558.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10ol7sqdr84k619@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041104T223651-134@post.gmane.org>

Michael Hobbs <mike <at> hobbshouse.org> writes:
> 
> One word: union
> 

Interestingly, unions can be well-defined even in a strongly-typed language,
e.g. OCaml:

# type int_or_list = Int of int | List of int list;;
type int_or_list = Int of int | List of int list
# Int 1;;
- : int_or_list = Int 1
# List [1; 2];;
- : int_or_list = List [1; 2]

The reason for this is that at any given time in OCaml, the sequence of bits is
only interpretable as *one* of the two types, never both.  If you have a good
example of using a union (in C probably, since OCaml wouldn't let you do this I
don't think) where you want to treat a given sequence of bytes as both types *at
once*, that would be great!

Thanks,

Steve



From a at a.invalid  Mon Nov 29 09:37:02 2004
From: a at a.invalid (Timo Virkkala)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 14:37:02 GMT
Subject: Closing files
In-Reply-To: <cofa4u$l9i$1@news.sap-ag.de>
References: <1gnz2kq.1jnqpi01tkznh0N%news+0409@henrikholm.com>
	<cofa4u$l9i$1@news.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <iuGqd.1051$Tv6.749@read3.inet.fi>

Daniel Dittmar wrote:
> And then there are a lot of people who think that changing all the 
> readlines one liner would be quite easy should the need of a Jython port 
> arrive, so why bother about it now?

The problem with this approach is, when the time for the Jython port 
arrives, do you remember to do it?

--
Timo Virkkala


From ville at spammers.com  Tue Nov 16 04:54:28 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 11:54:28 +0200
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<20041114200132.20649.1982992758.divmod.quotient.5222@ohm>
	<mailman.6390.1100553070.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbf8z.mirt8m687hvbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <du7mzxiruej.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Alex" == Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

    Alex> where builtin 'adapt' does protocol adaptation.  On the
    Alex> other hand, if the semantics of those 'as' clauses were
    Alex> something like:

    Alex> def x(y, z):
    Alex> if type(y) is not foo: raise TypeError, 'y must be foo'
    Alex> if type(z) is not bar: raise TypeError, 'z must be bar'
    Alex> <body of x>

    Alex> then that's the day I move to Ruby, or any other language
    Alex> that remained halfway sensible (if any).

Even if it allowed portions of the code to be statically compiled to
reach "native" performance? Or if it allowed resolving ambiguous
situations in type inference? Type declarations would of course be
optional, and they could be a big win esp. for non-cpython
implementations of the language. Beats reverting to C#/whatever for
situations where you want good JITtability. In CPython "adaptation"
might be the way to go, of course, but that would still enable the
same code to run on different variants of Python.

    Alex> syntax sugar;-) ends up being a way to ease *type-checking*,
    Alex> then, well, I'll evaluate that as being on a par with easing
    Alex> alcohol abuse.  What

I don't think people have been too keen to get static type checking
into the language anyway. It might be an option in pychecker, but that
should be enough. Dynamic type checking, well, that's an obvious net
loss over adaptation.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Nov 19 15:02:57 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:02:57 -0800
Subject: Class Encapsulation Errors in Python 2.3.3
In-Reply-To: <Xns95A66CF5C9E26duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
References: <47f7cc78.0411182007.1b77c2b1@posting.google.com>
	<10pqtqbjncp2nfb@corp.supernews.com>
	<Xns95A66CF5C9E26duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <10psk4f51ada623@corp.supernews.com>

Duncan Booth wrote:

>Jeff Shannon wrote:
>
>  
>
>>The problem here is that default values in functions/methods are 
>>evaluated at *compile* time.
>>    
>>
>
>Actually, no. The default values in functions/methods are evaluated when 
>the def statement is *executed* not when anything is compiled. If you 
>execute the def multiple times the default values are recalculated each 
>time. 
>  
>

Hm, true, I misspoke.  Perhaps it's clearest to say that the default 
values are evaluated when the function/method object is *created*, not 
when it is called.

Functions are created when the def statement is executed; this is 
usually one of the first things that happens when a simple module/script 
is imported/run, but it can happen at other times as well.  Referring to 
the creation of function objects as compilation, as I did, is 
technically inaccurate (compilation being the conversion of text source 
code to bytecode, which is later executed).  I do know the difference, 
but tend to conflate them out of laziness in cases where the distinction 
has little practical difference.  (In this case, practical differences 
are usually only significant when function/class definitions are dynamic 
and/or some sort of deep magic is being employed, neither of which are 
typical for me to need...)  But I should indeed be more careful about 
how I state that, because while *I* know what I meant, it doesn't follow 
that someone else reading this and looking for guidance won't get bitten 
by my laziness.  :)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From guillaume_weymeskirch at yahoo.fr  Tue Nov 30 05:31:02 2004
From: guillaume_weymeskirch at yahoo.fr (Guillaume Weymeskirch)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 02:31:02 -0800
Subject: pyserial with binary data
References: <23ae7099.0411260218.7ff9119c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <527b6fe9.0411300231.22f35cfe@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I've got the same problem. Errno 11 is because too much data, sending
is in progress.

Fix is easy: assign a non zero value to the writeTimeout property of
your serial objet.
Then the write method will wait up to this time for sending data.

Hope that's help

Guillaume


From mustafademirhan at gmail.com  Tue Nov  9 17:08:36 2004
From: mustafademirhan at gmail.com (Mustafa Demirhan)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:08:36 -0800
Subject: Embedding Python in a multi-threaded C++ application
In-Reply-To: <20041109215013.GE3878@unpythonic.net>
References: <560b81a404110910492229b9df@mail.gmail.com>
	<20041109202122.GC3878@unpythonic.net>
	<560b81a4041109132015dcbc21@mail.gmail.com>
	<20041109215013.GE3878@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <560b81a40411091408531dc4a3@mail.gmail.com>

Jeff thanks for the prompt reply.

I know it is not a good idea to terminate a thread and it is best to
avoid it. But sometimes you may need it. And also it seems like
something similar to PyErr_SetInterrupt would be the best option.

Lets say I won't terminate a thread that is running, but I simply want
to stop it: As far as I see, even this is not possible. In order to
tell Python to stop running something, I need to do it from the worker
thread. However this does not seem possible to me. For example, in my
model, a worker thread creates a new thread state and then loads a
python module and runs a single method from that module. The thread
execution will not go to the next line until the python finishes
running that method. So there is no way for the worker thread to call
PyErr_SetInterrupt before the method already finishes.

Also, if done properly, I dont think that stopping a running Python
code will break anything. For example, lets say I have a Python code
that looks like

def myfun ():
    for x in xrange (100000):
        dosomething ()

Now, if there is  a way to fire an exception from the C code (like
PyErr_SetInterrupt does), the code will simply exit myfun without
breaking anything. The exception will be passed to higher levels and
then will be caught by the C code itself i think.

So, even a simple signaling mechanism would solve the problem in this
case. However, the only problem here is that the signal must be sent
from the main thread - not the working thread itself. My question is,
is there such a mechanism? :))

Looking forward to hearing from you soon.

Best wishes
Mustafa Demirhan

On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 15:50:13 -0600, Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
> Something along the lines of PyErr_SetInterrupt() is the best you can
> do in CPython, unless there's a facility I don't know about.  If your
> code is not running through the Python bytecode interpreter loop, then
> it's in some unknown and uninterruptable state.  I'm there may be
> something else you can do, but it'll be a "you get to keep both pieces
> [when it breaks]" kind of solution.
> 
> For some reasons why a facility to forcibly terminate a thread was
> removed from Java, a language with a richer set of thread-related tools,
> see
>     http://g.oswego.edu/dl/cpj/cancel.html
> down at the heading "Asynchronous Termination":
>     The stop method was originally included in class Thread, but its
>     use has since been deprecated. Thread.stop causes a thread to
>     abruptly throw a ThreadDeath exception regardless of what it is
>     doing. (Like interrupt, stop does not abort waits for locks or IO.
>     But, unlike interrupt, it is not strictly guaranteed to abort wait,
>     sleep, or join.)
> 
>     This can be an arbitrarily dangerous operation. Because Thread.stop
>     generates asynchronous signals, activities can be terminated while
>     they are in the midst of operations or code segments that
>     absolutely must roll back or roll forward for the sake of program
>     safety and object consistency.
> The same considerations apply to Python, and additionally Python has
> been designed on the side of simplicity and portability rather than to
> offer all the features of some particular OS threading library.
> (that said, PyErr_SetInterrupt *is* a lot like ThreadDeath, because it
> can be fired at any moment the interpreter "between bytecodes", which
> means all kinds of higher-level consistency requirements could be
> violated)
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Mustafa Demirhan


From nmkolev at uni-bonn.de  Wed Nov 10 16:21:59 2004
From: nmkolev at uni-bonn.de (Nickolay Kolev)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:21:59 +0100
Subject: Combine two dictionaries into a list of 3-tuples
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6243.1100121185.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cmu004$j6q$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.6243.1100121185.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmu0oi$j6s$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>

Jeff Epler wrote:

> How about
>     [(k, v, two[v]) for k, v in one.items()]
> or
>     [(k, v, two[v]) for k, v in one.items() if k in two]
> or
>     [(k, v, two.get(v, None)) for k, v in one.items()]
> depending on what you want to do when a key doesn't exist in "two"
> 
> Jeff

I should have thought of that, it is sooo simple... :-)

Thanks again.

Cheers,
   -- Nickolay


From moocat94122 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 10 19:55:42 2004
From: moocat94122 at yahoo.com (Ron Samuel Klatchko)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 16:55:42 -0800
Subject: sockets: How to know when your data is sent
References: <f00811ba.0411090653.5f6d1d29@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a7916380.0411101655.54f1b83f@posting.google.com>

mederis at hotmail.com (Marc Ederis) wrote in message news:<f00811ba.0411090653.5f6d1d29 at posting.google.com>...
> I'm having a problem with sending data with sockets over a dial-up
> connection. When I use the send function, it will happily send a
> buffer of a megabyte and more in one shot. But of course, the data is
> still in the network buffer... Meaning you can't disconnect for awhile
> (but for how long...). The problem is, how can I know when it's done?
> Is there a way to be notified when the data has truly been sent?

You can get pretty close if you are willing to close the socket (but 
since you want to disconnect, that should be fine).

What you need to do is turn on linger mode with a very large timeout (large
enough so that your slow connection has enough time to send the data).
Once linger is turned on, close() will block until all the data has
been sent.

The one issue that you can run into is if the linger time runs out before
all the data is sent then the rest of the data is discarded.  But as long
as you set linger long enough (how about 10 years), you will run out of
patience long before the data is discarded.

samuel


From behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de  Tue Nov  9 02:41:10 2004
From: behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 08:41:10 +0100
Subject: ANN: IPython 0.6.4 is out.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6129.1099948743.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6129.1099948743.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmpsam$l3i$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>

Fernando Perez schrieb:
> In a few weeks, I
> will probably open a separate CVS branch for this, so that I can still fix
> bugs for version 0.6.4 in CVS HEAD if they are found.  Needless to say, any
> volunteers are welcome to help :)

Just a quick note on this one:

If you are already planning to abandon the current tree after the 
restructuring, why don't you put the current version into a CVS branch and 
continue working on CVS HEAD? You can still make changes to the branch in 
case someone finds bugs in it.

I think that's the usual approach.

Stefan


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Nov 17 17:34:27 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 17:34:27 -0500
Subject: thread, threading; how to kill a thread?
References: <m37jokwiqj.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
	<mailman.6508.1100724708.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cngfsv$jig$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<mailman.6512.1100728265.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u4qjof6ks.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> writes:

> It's more, "yes, I know the answer, but I remain unsatisfied".  I'm
> 100% okay with a platform-specific way to accomplish this (especially
> if the platform is Linux and BSD).  I'm okay with horrid hacks, or
> memory leaks, or other possible compromises.  But I'm not really okay
> with the standard answer.  And so I'm hoping someone else felt the
> same way and figured something out...?

I'm not familiar enough with pthreads to guess there, but under
Windows, you can technically accomplish what you want using
TerminateThread.  Perhaps there is a similar flow that could be used
with pthreads.

My major concern though in any attempt to externally kill off a thread
would be that you somehow strand the interpreter with that dead thread
still owning the GIL.  There's plenty of other sorts of system
resources that could also be stranded (at least until process exit),
but killing off the GIL owner would definitely mess up the
application's day.

As a sample, the following works under Windows:

          - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

import threading
import ctypes
import time

w32 = ctypes.windll.kernel32
THREAD_TERMINATE = 1    # Privilege level for termination

class DummyThread(threading.Thread):

    def __init__(self):
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)
        self.setDaemon(1)

    def run(self):
        self.tid = w32.GetCurrentThreadId()

        while 1:
            print 'Running'
            time.sleep(1)

def kill_thread(threadobj):

    handle = w32.OpenThread(THREAD_TERMINATE, False, threadobj.tid)
    result = w32.TerminateThread(handle, 0)
    w32.CloseHandle(handle)

    return result

if __name__ == "__main__":

    print 'Starting thread...'
    x = DummyThread()
    x.start()

    time.sleep(5)
    print 'Terminating thread...'
    kill_thread(x)

    time.sleep(5)
    print 'Exiting'
    
          - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In DummyThread, a "self.get_ident()" appears to return the native
platform thread id (so the same as the GetCurrentThreadId() call), but
I didn't want to depend on that necessarily being the case.

Of course, while the above runs on my system, I do think it has a GIL
risk - I expect that ctypes is releasing the GIL just before calling
the native function, so there's a chance the other thread could resume
and obtain the GIL just prior to TerminateThread executing at the
Win32 layer.  My odds are probably lower in this example since the
dummy thread is sleeping most of the time.  So if I was going to use
this in practice I'd probably provide my own extension module that
wrapped TerminateThread but made sure *not* to release the GIL before
calling it.

Of course, there are other pieces of state that remained messed up,
particularly if you use the threading package as above - it still
thinks the thread is alive and would wait for it at process exit.
Setting it to a daemon works as above, but you could also get crufty
and just reach in and manually call the __stop and __delete methods of
the thread object (dealing with the name mangling).

Not sure I'd ever have the gumption to use this in practice unless my
very next step was to exit the process (in which case setting the
thread as daemon works just about as well), but it's technically
possible :-)

-- David



From M.Waack at gmx.de  Mon Nov  1 15:52:52 2004
From: M.Waack at gmx.de (Mathias Waack)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 21:52:52 +0100
Subject: sublcassing dict without losing functionality
References: <mailman.5781.1099341134.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4aki52-fg7.ln1@valpo.de>

Steven Bethard wrote:

> I'd like to subclass dict to disallow overwriting of keys,
> something like:

<snip>

> The problem is, dict doesn't appear to call __setitem__ in any of
> the __init__ forms, so none of the following raise errors as I'd
> like them to:

<snap>

> etc.  Is there a simple way to override this behavior in dict
> without
> having to rewrite __init__?  There are so many cases in
> dict.__init__ that I'm hesitant to try to reproduce them all...

How about starting with UserDict (source comes with your python
distribution) and modifying it for your needs?

Mathias


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Nov  1 17:48:29 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 15:48:29 -0700
Subject: spell checking
In-Reply-To: <4184AA39.3090008@heneryd.com>
References: <4184A33C.8010903@kzoo.edu> <4184AA39.3090008@heneryd.com>
Message-ID: <20041031103839.0C31.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Erik Heneryd <erik at heneryd.com> wrote:
> 
> dataangel wrote:
> 
> > I was just curious if there were any spell checker python modules around 
> > that can guess at what the user meant to type in. I wrote up a quick 
> > function that splices a string up into bigrams and then checks how many 
> > bigrams are identical to a given word, which I think is how google does 
> > it. But support for trigrams etc. could be added, so I'm curious if 
> > anyone out there has done something more. Here's the script:
> 
> One tip is Levenshtein distance.  Some pointers:
> 
> http://www.merriampark.com/ld.htm
> http://www.hetland.org/python/distance.py
> http://trific.ath.cx/resources/python/levenshtein/

The problem with Levenshtein distance is that you must compute it for
all other words in your dictionary, if your word is not in your
dictionary.  Quite expensive.  Not the right thing to do.

 - Josiah



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 17 17:58:56 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:58:56 GMT
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
	number of output arguments)
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <419bbf2a.319309032@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:49:03 +1300, Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:

>Jeremy Bowers wrote:
>> Generally, returning a tuple is either a sign that your return value
>> should be wrapped up in a class, or the function is doing too much.
>
ISTM that a tuple _is_ a class that wraps content for return as a _single value_,
just like a custom container class instance. What's the problem? The fact that you
can write

    r,g,b = foo()

instead of

    t = foo()
    r = t[0]
    g = t[1]
    b = t[0]

(or some other verbose object-content-accessing code)
is very nice, if you ask me. There are lots of uses for
small ordered sets of values where no explicit naming
is required, any more than it is in a call to def foo(r,g,b): ...

I agree that unpacking long tuples to a series of local names
is bug-prone, just like a similar arg list for function call, but
it is efficient and sometimes that's worth the debugging of a
couple of lines of code. I don't think programmers should arbitrarily
be prevented from using tuples as they see fit.

Since the alternative of returning a dict of keyworded values is now
syntactically so simple (i.e., return dict(a=a_value, b=b_value, c=etc),
ISTM this is mostly a design/style issue, and I disagree with the idea
that returning small tuples is generally bad design.

>While I suspect you may be largely right, I
I suspect that most tuples returned are small, and the too-broad
criticism of tuple returning is therefore largely inappropriate ;-)

>find myself wondering why this should be so. We
>don't seem to have any trouble with multiple inputs
>to a function, so why should multiple outputs be
>a bad thing? What is the reason for this asymmetry?
Actually, it is not multiple outputs. It is a single tuple.
>
>Perhaps it has something to do with positional vs.
>keyword arguments. If a function has too many input
>arguments to remember what order they go in, we
>always have the option of specifying them by
>keyword. But we can't do that with the return-a-tuple-
>and-unpack technique for output arguments -- it's
>strictly positional.
We can (in current python) as easily return a dict as a tuple,
e.g., return dict(a=1, b=2, c=3) for your dict below.
>
>Maybe things would be better if we had "dict unpacking":
>
>   a, c, b = {'a': 1, 'b': 2, 'c': 3}

Yes, that is an interesting idea. It's part of the larget issue
of programmatic creation of bindings in the local namespace. The
trouble is that locals() effectively generates a snapshot dict
of current local bindings, and it's possible to mutate this dict,
but it's not possible (w/o black magic) to get the mods back into
the actual local bindings. If locals() returned a proxy for the
local namespace that could rebind local names, we could write

    localsproxy().update({'a': 1, 'b': 2, 'c': 3})

instead of your line above. Likewise if foo returned a dict,

    localsproxy().update(foo())

Maybe keyword unpacking could spell that with a '**' assignment target,
e.g.,

    ** = foo()  # update local bindings with all legal-name bindings in returned dict

Hm, maybe you could use the same sugar for attributes, e.g.,

    obj.** = foo()  # sugar for obj.__dict__.update(foo())

IWT it would be acceptable to limit binding to existing bindings, so that frame structure
would not have to be altered. Still, as Carlos pointed out, formal parameter names
are private to a function, and their raison d'etre is to decouple function code internal
naming from external naming. Returning named values (whether using dict per se or the
attribute dict of a custom object, etc) creates coupling of a kind again. Or course, so
does any custom object with named attributes or methods.
>
>would give a == 1, c == 3, b == 2. Then we could
>accept outputs by keyword as well as inputs...
>
I think 

    a, c, b = {'a': 1, 'b': 2, 'c': 3}

probably needs an unpacking indicator in the syntax, e.g.,

    a, c, b =  **{'a': 1, 'b': 2, 'c': 3}

And I think this should be sugar for the effect

    a       =    {'a': 1, 'b': 2, 'c': 3}['a']
    c       =    {'a': 1, 'b': 2, 'c': 3}['c']
    b       =    {'a': 1, 'b': 2, 'c': 3}['b']

I.e., if the dict has additional content, it is not an error
Hm, do you want to go for a dict.get-like default value in that?

    a, c, b =  **(default_value){'a': 1, 'b': 2}

would be sugar for

    a       =    {'a': 1, 'b': 2, 'c': 3}.get('a', default_value)
    c       =    {'a': 1, 'b': 2, 'c': 3}.get('c', default_value)
    b       =    {'a': 1, 'b': 2, 'c': 3}.get('b', default_value)

Hm, better stop ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sun Nov  7 19:31:14 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 16:31:14 -0800
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<418C7DCB.60502@acm.org>
	<mailman.5997.1099739459.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<62kv52-npq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<1gmun13.6rynz217b0hm1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4ab062-2rs.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<1gmvh6o.jbx87e1ruu14fN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <jrr262-3jl.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Roger Binns <rogerb at rogerbinns.com> wrote:
>   ...
>> I/O is one area where Java is *very* different than other
>> environments. Java emphasises the ability to select at runtime
>> (typically from
>
> Python's dynamism at runtime is definitely one of its fortes.

We are talking about different things.  Once you have written
some nice big Java "Enterprise" app, you'll see the difference.
I am not talking about the type system.  It is more about how
Java applications are constructed.  There are multiple JAR files,
many many properties files and the end user/adminstrator can
change what happens and plumb them together by changing the
properties files.

You could do *exactly* the same thing in Python, but people don't.
That doesn't make either language right or wrong, just that the
emphasis and what is considered "normal" is different.

> Sure, since the semantics are different.  Which is why we have the
> makefile method of socket objects: for those occasions in which you
> want signature-polymorphism at the expense of the overhead of
> adaptation.

Yes.  The point is that Java I/O is always done in that polymorphic
way, whereas Python doesn't.  In both cases, you can do what the
other language does, but people usually don't.  But it does mean
that if you want to measure I/O performance, you have to decide
if you want to do it with code optimised for speed, or what is "normal"
in each language.

> Generators are a reasonably recent addition to Python, and I have no
> idea what you mean by stating that Python emphasizes typing more than
> Java does

I meant Python's typing mechanism ("duck typing").  Python programs
take advantage of that, just as Java programs take advantage of
the Java typing mechanism.  Python's is more defined by the absence
of pervasive programmer defined typing, whereas the Java one requires
the specification of type information for all names, and interfaces
are used a lot.

> Python frameworks.  And factory-based design patterns are everywhere
> in Python, of course; indeed, it's in Java that you see lots of 'new
> ThisClass' constructs which build an instance of some hardwired
> concrete class -- 

Java programs have *way* more factory stuff.  Just a different emphasis.

> Python's default makes it trivially easy to read most files in a
> single gulp, so it's appropriate in many cases; Java's makes it hard
> and slow to read ANY file, so it's never appropriate.

Your Java code was not representative of what an average programmer
would do in Java.  In fact it was a spectacularly bad example of
Java programming.  You can find bad examples of programming in
every language on the web.

>> If the language code is the same, then that claim boils down to
>> the Java Native Interface vs the Python C API.  In the case of
>> Java, I can see the claim having some relevance in multi-threaded
>> code since Java doesn't have the GIL.
>
> Python does, but drops it during blocking I/O operations so that the
> relevance should be just about the same in both cases.

Python will be worse with the penalty being based on how much concurrent
I/O is happening and how many processers the host has.  This is due to
the serialisation of the Python bytecode, and non-serialisation of the
Java bytecode.  My best guess that this will be a few percentage points
at a low number of concurrent I/O and probably up to 20% with
thousands.

(At this moment at work I am in fact dealing with this very thing in some
Python code and a form of proxy server).

> I did observe (at some point along the substantial chain of small
> benchmarks I and some other posters exchanged) that the 4:1 ratio in
> runtime in favour of Python exactly matched the 4:1 ratio in
> pagefaults, again in favour of Python, btw.

Page faults aren't a valid way of measuring this.  You don't incur page
faults for malloced/brk memory but you do for executable pagein, and
for mmap (usually).  Using executable pagein and mmap is better when
you have multiple instances of programs since they will share
system memory.  Again this all comes down to what the runtime
environment is optimised for.

> However, firms that choose not to release their business critical
> applications as open source are likely to require at the very least a
> non-disclosure agreement before they show you those sources, making it
> impractical to use those sources to meet your wishes.

That is missing my point completely.  If I wanted to write a ray tracer
and I could find them all over the net and in business success stories
in all languages, I would want to examine the innards of them to see
if I could do the same thing.

We have all heard the Yahoo Stores/Paul Graham/Lisp story.  I don't
think many people have seen that code.  Do you think you could do something
similar in Lisp?  Could you write a ray tracer in Lisp?  If you could
see examples of even unrelated applications, and their code, you would
have a better idea.  You would be able to judge if you could achieve
it with a team of 10 average programmers.  But without being able to
see the internals of at least some examples, your guess would have a
very high margin of error.

> As for your latter sentence, I've never met a programmer whose default
> assumption was that they would NOT be able to write code just as good
> as most anybody else's.

That only applies to languages they know or know about, and in many
cases also libraries (eg SQL, Persistence, Networking, Transactions).
Any programmer who believes they can write Yahoo Stores in Lisp just
as good as what Paul Graham and co did, when they don't know Lisp, have
no experience in that type of application, have never done credit
card processing etc is kidding themselves.  They may be able to
do so eventually, but it will take much time to learn.  They are
unlikely to be able to accurately estimate that time at the begining.

Using another example, do you think everyone who reads this group
could just go ahead and write Zope?

Roger 




From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Nov 18 04:18:47 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:18:47 +0100
Subject: inserting bracketings into a string
References: <mailman.6460.1100648300.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cnf1d3$156$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cnf45i$jp8$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cnhpbf$g1e$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Still not tested, but should do slightly better than my previous version.
Python 2.4 only:

from operator import itemgetter

def insert_bracketings(text, spans):
    inserts = [(s, "[%s " % r) for (r, s, t) in spans]
    inserts.extend((t, "]") for (r, s, t) in spans)
    inserts.sort(key=itemgetter(0), reverse=True)
    text = list(text)
    for (r, s) in inserts:
        text.insert(r, s)
    return "".join(text)

Apart from cosmetics, this should insert start tags before end tags at the
same position. Relies on all end tags being equal.

Peter


From sw at wordtech-software.com  Wed Nov 10 15:27:48 2004
From: sw at wordtech-software.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:27:48 -0500
Subject: ANN: PyQt-Mac installer available
In-Reply-To: <e775286d0411101118d16f5e7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5Vlkd.1069$yk5.385@fe37.usenetserver.com>	
	<mailman.6223.1100110815.5135.python-list@python.org>	
	<419266F1.8080704@wordtech-software.com>
	<e775286d0411101118d16f5e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <419279C4.3080008@wordtech-software.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Timothy Grant wrote:


| Same error after doing that. Do I need to logout and log back in to
| build the library list or something? on linux I'd run ldconfig, but
| don't know what the equivalent is on OS/X yet.

It looks like PyQt is looking for the libaries in /usr/local/lib instead
of /usr/lib. I have the remnants of old Qt installations scattered on my
machine, which probably explains why it is working for me; those
libraries weren't part of my installer. PyQt seems to require the
dynamic instead of the static libraries.

I'm concerned that simply packaging up the libraries in the installer
might make things unpredictable. I'll have to clean up my Qt
installation and then try everything again. This will take some time,
probably a few days.

I'll post an announcement when the new build is available.

- --
Kevin Walzer, PhD
WordTech Software--Open Source Applications and Packages for OS X
http://www.wordtech-software.com
http://www.smallbizmac.com
http://www.kevin-walzer.com
mailto:sw at wordtech-software.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFBknnEJmdQs+6YVcoRArkMAJ9H8OcdWZN29p1l3hFtne2DstoagQCcCIjQ
Y5Ojy0bB+B+Ujv4vQw9qiYQ=
=505R
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From pl-admin at li.org  Thu Nov  4 06:58:26 2004
From: pl-admin at li.org (pl-admin at li.org)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:58:26 +0000
Subject: Your message to pl awaits moderator approval
Message-ID: <20041104115826.10133.19822.Mailman@zaphod.alt.org>

Your mail to 'pl' with the subject

    Notice again

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    Post by non-member to a members-only list

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.


From pierre.barbier at cirad.fr  Thu Nov 25 05:46:31 2004
From: pierre.barbier at cirad.fr (Pierre Barbier de Reuille)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:46:31 +0100
Subject: Use Python library from C++
In-Reply-To: <89cc6e1f.0411241939.61a19596@posting.google.com>
References: <89cc6e1f.0411241939.61a19596@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41a5b79a$0$17605$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Chang LI a ?crit :
> I want to use the Python Libray from my C++ program.
> The Python Libray is no GUI. How can I mix C++ and 
> Python? 
> 
> One way is to run PY library as an independent process.
> Another way is to start PY as a C++ thread. 
> The third way is to run Python engine as part of the C++. 
> Which way is better?
> 
> No intention to access all the Python's code but only 
> access APIs of a module.

If you just want to access the Python API (or some APIs of modules) you 
need to launch the interpreter (in the current thread will be ok) and 
then you can access everything ... import modules, create objects, etc.

Pierre


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Nov 14 19:59:26 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 18:59:26 -0600
Subject: .pyc files...
References: <E1CTDp7-00050j-00@galvatron.kickingdragon.com>
	<mailman.6343.1100420001.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<x74qjsnj1o.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<4197ec65$0$21106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <x7sm7clyfl.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl> writes:

> Mike Meyer wrote:
>> "Simon John" <simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>>>or with backticks:  rm -rf `find . -name '*.pyc'`
>> Better with $(: rm -rf $(find . -name '*.pyc').
> What's the difference? I've never seen (read: used)
> the $(...) syntax...

$(...) is nestable. ` isn't.

       <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk  Fri Nov 19 06:52:29 2004
From: valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk (Valkyrie)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:52:29 +0800
Subject: How to sort a list of tuples
In-Reply-To: <1100859769.700610@eng-ser6>
References: <1100859769.700610@eng-ser6>
Message-ID: <1100865152.810781@eng-ser6>

Thank you all, it's perfectly fine now :)

Valkyrie wrote:
> I have a list of tuples, and one of the fields in the tuple is score. So how can
> I sort the list by the score?
> 
> Thanks in advance


From stephen.boulet at motorola.com  Mon Nov 22 12:14:57 2004
From: stephen.boulet at motorola.com (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:14:57 -0600
Subject: py.test anyone?
Message-ID: <cnt6vq$b9p$1@newshost.mot.com>

Have people been using py.test? I was hoping to try it out but was 
running into subversion problems (behind a corporate firewall, though 
there is a windows registry hack for that which didn't work for me).

Also, in searching google groups for 'py.test' the dot between py and 
test seems to throw off the search. Can a google guru let me know how to 
have google search for the literal string? Thanks.

Stephen


From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Sat Nov  6 08:44:07 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 6 Nov 2004 05:44:07 -0800
Subject: How do you execute an OS X application (bundle) from Python?
References: <70bb9f8d.0411040250.1f4ac1a@posting.google.com>
	<69cbbef2.0411041513.120fc039@posting.google.com>
	<1gmrrsj.7ljqd6f3sgkfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<70bb9f8d.0411050817.412ab0b3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0411060544.3444a55c@posting.google.com>

dfh at forestfield.co.uk (David Hughes) wrote in message news:<70bb9f8d.0411050817.412ab0b3 at posting.google.com>...

> I don't know if that will be possible. The reason for my original
> query was that I want to fire up an independent help viewer from an
> application - both of which will be bundle-built. In fact, I *don't*
> want to implement a wait, but I do want to use Popen from the
> subprocess module to launch the viewer - so that I can use its poll()
> method to check if it is already running should another launch be
> requested, and also kill it on exit from the main application. But,
> unlike Windows, poll() always returns a completion code of zero,
> instead of None, even though the process is still running.

Dunno if the os module is any use for process management at the GUI
level. (The docs don't indicate Mac compatibility, but I'm not sure if
they've been revised since OS9 days. You'd need to ask Jack Jansen
about this.) Anyway, I can show how to do it with Apple events if you
want; it's not hard.

HTH

has


From behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de  Sun Nov  7 11:21:36 2004
From: behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 17:21:36 +0100
Subject: How come wxPython isn't in the standard library?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6060.1099838610.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org>	<aj3u52-a2r.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>	<ogjv52-anq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<mailman.6060.1099838610.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmli2h$c18$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>

BJ?rn Lindqvist schrieb:
>>1) wxpython src tarball is about 18M,
> 
> IMHO, this is a no issue. It doesn't matter that much if the source is
> 8 or 26 mb. 

I highly object. Size /does/ matter in many cases. Imagine what would 
happen if wxPython was integrated. People would say: Ok, tkinter is in, 
wxPython is in, why not PyQT, PyGTK and toolkit XYZ ?? I don't see any 
reason why wxPython should be better than any of the other toolkits. And 
if I was to vote for or against a redundant module that would totally 
bloat the standard distribution, I wouldn't think twice about it...


 > In fact, 8 mb is extremely small download for a
 > programming language.

8MB is actually quite large and I'm happy that many Linux-Distros 
(especially Handheld distros like Familiar) split the stdlib into various 
packets that can be installed independantly. I actually hope that Python 
3000 will make this easier by reducing inter-module dependencies when 
restructuring stdlib.

Stefan


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Sun Nov  7 21:12:36 2004
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 20:12:36 -0600
Subject: Stop spaces from appearing when printing to file
In-Reply-To: <cmmgiu$id5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <cmmgiu$id5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <200411072012.36624.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Sunday 07 November 2004 07:02 pm, Brad Tilley wrote:
> I'm printing some info into a txt file that will be uploaded into a 
> MySQL DB. I use ';' as field separaters. How can I stop spaces from 
> appearing on both sides of the ';'
> 
> When I do this:
> 
> print >> x,';',object,";",AN_string,";",ascii,";",sum
> 
> My file looks like this:
> 
> ;12345 ; 23456 ; [1,2,3,4,5] ; 15
> 
> I need it to look like this to make the DB happy:
> 
> ;12345;23456;[1,2,3,4,5];15

Generally speaking, you'll be better off to produce the string
you want and then print it, rather than relying on the print
command's syntax.  You'll find it much more intuitive to do
either:

print x+';'+object+";"+AN_string+";"+ascii+";"+sum

or

print "%s;%s;%s;%s;%s" % (x, object, AN_string, ascii, sum)

In other words, use string operators, then print the result.

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From godoy at ieee.org  Tue Nov 16 15:25:11 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:25:11 -0200
Subject: get function arguments
References: <cndm3b$lin$1@newshispeed.ch>
	<mailman.6451.1100635452.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3mzxho82g.fsf@g2ctech.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> writes:

> Benny Mohr <news5 <at> bennymo.ch> writes:
>> 
>> How can I get the list of argumens of this function?
>
> Is this what you mean?
>
>>>> def myFunc(a,b,c='default'):
> ... 	pass
> ... 
>>>> myFunc.func_code.co_varnames
> ('a', 'b', 'c')
>
> I don't know where (if?) the func_code attributes are documented, but you should
> be able to figure them out with a little object introspection (e.g. dir or an
> editor like PythonWin that does some code completion).

You could have asked in the interactive prompt as well :-)


>>> dir(myFunc.func_code)
['__class__', '__cmp__', '__delattr__', '__doc__', '__getattribute__',
'__hash__', '__init__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__',
'__repr__', '__setattr__', '__str__', 'co_argcount', 'co_cellvars',
'co_code', 'co_consts', 'co_filename', 'co_firstlineno', 'co_flags',
'co_freevars', 'co_lnotab', 'co_name', 'co_names', 'co_nlocals',
'co_stacksize', 'co_varnames']
>>> 

There seems to be other interesting things here too:

>>> dir(myFunc)
['__call__', '__class__', '__delattr__', '__dict__', '__doc__',
'__get__', '__getattribute__', '__hash__', '__init__', '__module__',
'__name__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__',
'__setattr__', '__str__', 'func_closure', 'func_code', 'func_defaults',
'func_dict', 'func_doc', 'func_globals', 'func_name'] 
>>>  

-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at ieee.org>


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Nov  3 05:29:59 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 11:29:59 +0100
Subject: unicode and strings
References: <mailman.5849.1099437458.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2urqufF2eh9e9U1@uni-berlin.de>

Jacob Friis wrote:

> I'm trying to learn Python via Marks Feedparser.
> 
> <snip src="http://feedparser.org/docs/character-encoding.html">
> If the character encoding can not be determined, Universal Feed Parser
> sets the bozo bit to 1 and sets bozo_exception to
> feedparser.CharacterEncodingUnknown. In this case, parsed values will be
> strings, not Unicode strings.
> </snip>
> 
> I guess this means that all data will be unicode, and to put in a
> database I could use my mycode function. Correct?

No. It means that you don't get unicode objects, but strings which are
basically sequences of bytes. And there is no way to be sure what encoding
they are in.

> 
> def mycode(value):
> if isinstance(value, unicode):
> value = value.encode('utf-8')
> return value

this will either yield a string in utf8-encoding, or a string in an unknown
encoding.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 12:02:24 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:02:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10oim483n2b7r7f@corp.supernews.com>
	<cmd73m$k1o$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041104T175810-307@post.gmane.org>

Diez B. Roggisch <deetsNOSPAM <at> web.de> writes:
> 
> I'd second that - writing apus in php can lead to great surprises of what
> actually happens - take this for example:
> 
> $foo = "abc";
> $foo[0] = 65;
> 
> The result is 
> 
> "6bc"

If I learned nothing else from this thread, I learned that I *never* want to
screw around with PHP. ;)

> And don't forget: If you don't like the way someone overloaded some
> operator, you can alter that behaviour according to your own design
> philosophies.

Python has the nice property that you're not allowed to modify builtins, so no
one can ever make your Python code do anything other than:

>>> foo = 'abc'
>>> foo[0] = 65
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: object does not support item assignment

I wonder what people think about Ruby, which, I understand, does allow you to
modify builtins.  Can anyone tell me if you could make Ruby strings do the
horrible coercion that PHP strings do?

Steve



From terti at mighty.co.za  Mon Nov 29 10:16:24 2004
From: terti at mighty.co.za (tertius)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:16:24 +0200
Subject: date diff calc
Message-ID: <K_-dnRIyHJPs_DbcRVn-jg@is.co.za>

Hi,

Is there a more pythonic way to write or do a date difference 
calculation? I have as input two date fields in the form 'YYYY-MM-DD'

TIA
Terius



from datetime import date

bdl = '2004-11-25'.split('-')
edl = '2004-11-30'.split('-')
bd = date(int(bdl[0]),  int(bdl[1]),  int(bdl[2]))
ed = date(int(edl[0]),  int(edl[1]),  int(edl[2]))

print ed , '-', bd , '=', (ed-bd).days


From arsalan_zaidi at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  2 13:02:03 2004
From: arsalan_zaidi at hotmail.com (Arsalan)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 10:02:03 -0800
Subject: Simple cross-platform audio playback and recording
Message-ID: <583afd79.0411021002.1dc00184@posting.google.com>

Hi.

I'm looking for a simple library for audio recording and playback.
I've looked all over but stuff like pygame etc. is just overkill (plus
I couldn't find a way to record audio).

Anyone have any pointers?

Thanks in advance!

--Arsalan


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Nov 12 15:19:52 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 12:19:52 -0800
Subject: web hosting with Python
References: <3cccb1d8.0411101416.690960c3@posting.google.com>
	<6f402501.0411110147.69ef6800@posting.google.com>
	<41934648$0$48933$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<6f402501.0411120033.111907a0@posting.google.com>
	<4194a659$0$36861$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0411121219.1879b571@posting.google.com>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:<4194a659$0$36861$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl>...
> Michael Foord wrote:
> 
> > Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:<41934648$0$48933$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl>...
> > 
> >>Michael Foord wrote:
> >>
> >>>http://www.sapphiresoft.co.uk
> >>>are very good. (Good python support, python 2.3.4).
> >>
> >>It doesn't say so on their website, it appears a PHP shop...
> >>Or am I looking with my eyes closed?
> >>
> >>--Irmen
> > 
> > 
> > They've installed Python 2.3.4 at my request, PyCrypto, PIL, Psyco and
> > a few other modules. I don't think they've got anything advertising it
> > on their main page........
> 
> They need to fix their site: it looks like crap in Firefox...
> 
> Anyway, are you allowed to run one or more long running Python 
> processes? I.e. say I want a Quixote-based website there, do
> they allow you to run Quixote?
> 
> --Irmen

Sorry Irmen - that's not something I know the answer to. If you
address the question to technical at sapphiresoft.co.uk I'm sure they'll
help though.

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Nov 17 13:18:36 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:18:36 -0800
Subject: Rounding curiosity
References: <20041116182254.6cb5a603.bartley9@pacbell.net>
	<419ad276$0$1581$a1866201@visi.com>
Message-ID: <donn-607B28.10183617112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <419ad276$0$1581$a1866201 at visi.com>,
 Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
...
> If you're just worried about how it looks on the screen:
> 
> >>> print "%0.2f" % round(5e8/(1024*1024),2)
> 476.84
> 
> If you want the computer to fib for you, it will. :)

Actually it will anyway - once you use "print", you
get a str() automatically, and that rounds off in a
way that happens to give you the same result in this
case - so the formatting above is superfluous unless
the occasional trailing zero is important.  If repr()
did the same, we'd hear a lot less of this.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From ed at leafe.com  Fri Nov  5 11:47:13 2004
From: ed at leafe.com (Ed Leafe)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:47:13 -0500
Subject: ANN: Dabo Licensing Change
Message-ID: <5808F106-2F4A-11D9-A056-003065B11E84@leafe.com>

	Dabo (http://dabodev.com), the up-and-coming database application 
development framework, is now available under the liberal MIT license 
(http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.html).

	Formerly, Dabo was dual-licensed, under either GPL or a commercial 
license, following the licensing model of MySQL. We decided that this 
was too difficult to manage, and was discouraging some people from 
seeing what Dabo was all about.

	Dabo is a 3-tier, cross-platform application development framework, 
written in Python atop the wxPython GUI toolkit. It works seamlessly 
with MySQL and Firebird databases, with PostgreSQL support in the 
works.

      ___/
     /
    __/
   /
  ____/
  Ed Leafe
  http://leafe.com/
  http://dabodev.com/



From python at davious.org  Sat Nov 20 23:18:06 2004
From: python at davious.org (Dave Anderson)
Date: 20 Nov 2004 20:18:06 -0800
Subject: Gnome version of Idle?
Message-ID: <992f396f.0411202018.1edbc6d0@posting.google.com>

I love using Idle as my IDE for python on Windows.  I've briefly tried
some other IDE's, but the clean and simple nature of Idle keeps me
coming back to it.

Recently, I tried out Idle on Fedora.  The lack of font selection, the
lack of anti-aliasing, and the gaudiness of the widgets were a real
disappointment.

I wish I could have something like a Gnome-Idle IDE, so I can have the
beautiful IDE I'm enjoying in Windows over in Fedora-land.

Is their any such IDE available? or, is it even possible that I'll see
anything like a Gnome clone or version of IDLE within the next few
years?


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov  9 18:28:27 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 23:28:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Stripping HTML with RE
References: <76d8b714.0411091506.581637c0@posting.google.com>
	<loom.20041110T001702-361@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <loom.20041110T002647-16@post.gmane.org>

I wrote:
> >>> re.sub(r'</?(?!H1|H2|/H1|/H2)[^>]*>', r'', '<a>sdfsa</a>')
> 'sdfsa'

Maybe slightly better:

>>> re.sub(r'<(?!/?(?:H1|H2))[^>]*>', r'', '<a>sdfsa</a>')
'sdfsa'
>>> re.sub(r'<(?!/?(?:H1|H2))[^>]*>', r'', '<H1>sdfsa</a>')
'<H1>sdfsa'
>>> re.sub(r'<(?!/?(?:H1|H2))[^>]*>', r'', '<H1>sdfsa</H2>')
'<H1>sdfsa</H2>'
>>> re.sub(r'<(?!/?(?:H1|H2))[^>]*>', r'', '<H2>sdfsa</H2>')
'<H2>sdfsa</H2>'

I've just grouped things a bit differently so that I only have to write H1 and
H2 once.

Steve



From merman at snafu.de  Sat Nov 13 08:10:06 2004
From: merman at snafu.de (merman)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 14:10:06 +0100
Subject: MySQL on Win32
Message-ID: <41960739$0$182$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Hi,

is there a third-party module to access to MySQL on Windows? I read 
MySQLdb works on Linux only.

Thanks.

o-o

Thomas


From atterdan at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  5 03:01:59 2004
From: atterdan at yahoo.com (John Doe)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 08:01:59 GMT
Subject: deref in a string into an operand
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.05.08.00.19.364836@yahoo.com>

I've got the action '+' stored as the variable 'plus',
that is plus='+'

Now I want to use the variable plus in an equation:
5 plus 7, just line 5 + 7

How do I do that?

Dan



From foo at bar.com  Tue Nov  9 21:48:28 2004
From: foo at bar.com (Steve Menard)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 21:48:28 -0500
Subject: possible to pass python objects into java without jython?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6140.1099997924.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6140.1099997924.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jkfkd.70767$QQ5.1438243@weber.videotron.net>

Maurice Ling wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have read that this had been asked before but there's no satisfactory 
> replies then.
> 
> I have a module (pA) written in python, which originally is called by 
> another python module (pB), and passes a python object (pO) to pB. Now I 
> require pA to be called in a java class (jC) and pass pO into jC. As pA 
> uses non-python modules, I am not able to use Jython on this.
> 
> Are there any way out in this?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Maurice

The simple answer is no. The complex answer is maybe, but not without 
some work on your part.

As part of JPype I made the opposite : allow Python to use Java classes. 
That was easy as python is very dynamic.

Going the other way around .... I don;t see how. The java part must want 
to receive a specific Java type. Even if that type is Object (the root 
of all object types in Java), tehre is no way for Python object to be 
one of those.

Case #1 : the "main" program is in Python, and the Java type to be 
received is a Java interface. In that specific case, JPype 
(http://jpype.sourceforge.net) can help you. You can "wrap" your pO into 
the correct Java type and apss it in.

Otherwise, as has been mantioned before, you will need some kind of 
remoting mechanism. Corba might provide a middle ground, or XML-RPC/SOAP.

Good luck.

Steve


From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 13 08:40:24 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 08:40:24 -0500
Subject: permuting letters and fairy tales
In-Reply-To: <4195b412.332338677@news.oz.net>
References: <67lld8kr76.fsf@aster.homelinux.net>
	<41957f26.318790786@news.oz.net> <4195b412.332338677@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <41960db9$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> But it does bring up a general problem of final logic in an iter loop. ISTM it could
> be useful to have an option not to raise StopIteration, but instead keep returning
> a specified sentinel at the end, something like file.read returns '' repeatedly at EOF.

 From the itertools examples:
 >>> def padnone(seq):
...     "Returns the sequence elements and then returns None indefinitely"
...     return chain(seq, repeat(None))

Kent


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Mon Nov 22 12:55:29 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:55:29 -0500
Subject: for(each) element aliasing
In-Reply-To: <30ek4rF303flqU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2844q0l5ccahj6poumolghrcm2u2boo9ka@4ax.com>
	<41a21850$0$1075$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>
	<30ek4rF303flqU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <h6Sdnbjcn9-MtT_cRVn-3w@giganews.com>

Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:

> But for this you won't need enumerate:
> for index in range(len(arr)):

Isn't the range(len(arr)) construct somewhat of an
contraption? It has become a recognizable pattern
of course but that was by necessity rather than
correctness.

Istvan.


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Nov 14 17:51:11 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 16:51:11 -0600
Subject: .pyc files...
In-Reply-To: <16791.29985.807526.318735@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <mailman.6344.1100420809.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<419726bf$0$521$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<41976617_1@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<16791.29985.807526.318735@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <16791.57695.538356.488725@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Kent> But PEP 304 seems to be abandoned, if I read the record correctly.
    Kent> It has an incomplete patch that is almost two years old and no
    Kent> activity since then. PEP 320 (Python 2.4 Release Schedule) says

    Skip> I guess "abandoned" is the appropriate term.  There were problems
    Skip> raised with how this would work on Windows and I lost interest.
    Skip> (The current scheme works pretty well for me.  I wrote PEP 304
    Skip> more for pedantic reasons and to address other peoples' concerns.)
    Skip> It shouldn't be hard to resurrect if there are some folks with
    Skip> Windows experience willing to help solve those problems.

    Kent> The biggest stumbling block seems to be the lack of a patch for
    Kent> Windows, though the *nix is also incomplete.

The patch at <http://python.org/sf/677103> has been updated to apply cleanly
with current CVS.  Any Windows folks want to take a crack at fixing the
essentially empty portion of the patch for import.c?

Skip


From goermezer at htp-tel.de  Thu Nov 18 10:55:16 2004
From: goermezer at htp-tel.de (goermezer at htp-tel.de)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:55:16 +0100
Subject: Access CATIA V5 with win32com (LONG)
Message-ID: <1100793316.419cc5e4159aa@webmail.htp-tel.de>

Hello,

I got it ! There was an example (for Office I think) in the test-directory of
Pywin32, where I have the first lines from. But this is dynamic binding. Can
anybody explain this for early binding ?

And it would be fine when the pulldown-menu in Pythonwin works to see the
exposed Methods of the Type Libraries.
-----------------------------------------------------------

import win32com.client

dispatch = win32com.client.dynamic._GetGoodDispatch("CATIA.Application")
typeinfo = dispatch.GetTypeInfo()
attr = typeinfo.GetTypeAttr()
olerepr = win32com.client.build.DispatchItem(typeinfo, attr, None, 0)
catia = win32com.client.dynamic.CDispatch(dispatch, olerepr)
dispatch = typeinfo = attr = olerepr = None

doc = catia.ActiveDocument.Product
print "------------------"
print "Number : Partname:"
print "------------------"
count = catia.ActiveDocument.Product.Products.Count
for partnum in range(count):
    print "Part", partnum + 1, ":",
catia.ActiveDocument.Product.Products.Item(partnum+1).Name
---------------------------------------------------------------

This is the result. And it works fine.

------------------
Number : Partname:
------------------
Part 1 : 433275-14.1
Part 2 : Part1.1
Part 3 : Part3.1
Part 4 : Product5.1

------------------------------------
htp - Hannovers Telefon Partner GmbH
http://www.htp-tel.de


From mauriceling at acm.org  Sun Nov  7 17:42:52 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 09:42:52 +1100
Subject: Installed MacPython 10.3 Addons - Can't find Modules,
 even standard ones.
In-Reply-To: <pecora-03E3B5.09264507112004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
References: <pecora-03E3B5.09264507112004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <418EA4EC.40806@acm.org>

Lou Pecora wrote:

> I upgraded to Panther a month ago and just upgraded to MacPython 10.3 
> Addons (as per Jack Jansen's page - thanks, Jack).
> 
> But now my programs can't even find standard modules.  from Numeric 
> import *  brings up the error window:  Can't find module Numeric.  Even 
> trig functions sine and cosine generate the same type of error.  I've 
> looked over the FAQ and can't see any answers (maybe I missed 
> something).   I'm guessing this is a Path problem, but I'm stumped.  I 
> have PYTHONPATH set to some of my modules (which seems to work), but not 
> sure what to do about standard stuff.
> 
> Any clues appreciated.  Thanks.
> 
> -- Lou Pecora  (my views are my own)
> 
> P.S. I posted this on Python-Mac-SIG email list, too.  Sorry if you are seeing it again.

Did you ever install Python through Fink or had used Fink before?

Try to do
import sys
sys.path()
and see where it points to?

My suspicion is that there are more than one pythons in your system now...

Cheers
maurice


From someone at microsoft.com  Thu Nov 25 14:51:44 2004
From: someone at microsoft.com (Jive)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 19:51:44 GMT
Subject: A lock that times out but doesn't poll
References: <slrncq5vvl.61m.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <kJqpd.5108720$ic1.478957@news.easynews.com>

I just took a look at Timer in threading.py.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but
it appears that the
timer always stays around for the programmed interval, even if cancel() is
called on it.  If that's the
case, it's hard for me to see how it could be used to implement a useful
timed lock.  The typical scenario
is for a thread to obtain a lock fairly quickly when things are functioning
properly, but to wait on it with
a long timeout in case some resource dries up -- like a socket connection
breaks.  In that scenario,
a thread that repeatedly waits on a timed lock will generate new Timer
threads faster than they will die off.

How can you use cancel() for [i]anything[/i]? In a time-sliced environment,
won't there
always be a race condition?

Once again, I have reservations about threading.py.  I do realtime
programming in my day job, so
I see bush-whackers behind every rhododendron.  Why, the stories I could
tell.  They would
make a grown man sick  Heck, they would make a sick man groan.

I looked for my pure Python version of timed locks, but I couldn't find it.
I'm wondering if I found
problems with *it* and deleted it.

I did find the MS-Windows timed lock extension though.




From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Nov 26 11:45:45 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 08:45:45 -0800
Subject: The limitation of the Photon Hypothesis
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E32452BA@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 19:34:42 +0800, rumours say that "hills"
> <hills838 at hotmail.com> might have written:
> 
> >Please reply to hdgbyi at public.guangzhou.gd.cn.
> >Thank you! 
> > 
> >
> >The limitation of the Photon Hypothesis
> 
> Damn.  I didn't notice this is comp.lang.photon .  Sorry for 
> my OT posts so far, people.

No matter. Excitable people radiate enlightenment, and a bright lad who
sparks conversation can darken our door any day. QED.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sat Nov  6 13:36:25 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 10:36:25 -0800
Subject: checking a thread has started
References: <mailman.6001.1099749512.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qliv52-mlq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Deepak Sarda wrote:
> I believe this bottleneck is due to Apache server - it just can't
> spawn so many threads so quickly. It just spawns seven threads and
> that's it.

Something else to watch out for which bites occassionally is that
there is an import lock, and only one thread at a time can hold it.
If a thread in Apache is importing your code, then any of your threads
that try to do an import will just block.  Your main thread will never
finish and the Apache framework will never finish importing you,
so the lock is never released.

Roger 




From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov  9 04:33:31 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 09:33:31 GMT
Subject: Determining combination of bits
References: <x3Qjd.121786$hj.41260@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <41908365.2014291988@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 11:48:22 -0800, "Sean Berry" <sean at buildingonline.com> wrote:

>Say I have a dictionary like the following
>
>{1:'one',2:'two',4:'three',8:'four',16:'five', etc...}
>
>and I am given some numbers, say 22, 25, and 9.  I want to determine the 
>keys, powers of 2, that comprise the number.
>
>Ex.  22 = 16+4+2
>       25 = 16+8+1
>       9   = 8+1
>...etc...
>
>How do I get these keys? 
>
Since it's not homework, and I seem to have read your question a little
differently from the others, maybe this will be useful...

 >>> bitdict = {1:'one',2:'two',4:'three',8:'four',16:'five'}
 >>> def bitnames(n):
 ...     return [t[1] for t in sorted([kv for kv in bitdict.items() if n&kv[0]])][::-1]
 ...
 >>> bitnames(11)
 ['four', 'two', 'one']
 >>> bitnames(15)
 ['four', 'three', 'two', 'one']
 >>> bitnames(31)
 ['five', 'four', 'three', 'two', 'one']
 >>> bitnames(9)
 ['four', 'one']
 >>> bitnames(20)
 ['five', 'three']

If you don't care about the order, you can leave out the sorting and reversal.

I gather you want to put in something other than  strings 'one','two', etc. as bit definitions,
otherwise you could define your dict from names in a single list, which makes the numbers less
typo-prone (since you're not typing them ;-) e.g.

 >>> namelist = 'one two three four five'.split()
 >>> bitdict = dict((2**i,name) for i,name in enumerate(namelist))
 >>> bitdict
 {8: 'four', 1: 'one', 2: 'two', 4: 'three', 16: 'five'}

This uses python 2.4b1 BTW, so you will have to change sorted and put [] around the
dict generator expression argument above.

You could also use the list instead of a dict, since you know you have an ordered
compact set of values corresponding to the bits, and since the order is still there
you don't need to sort. E.g.,

 >>> def bitnames2(n):
 ...     return [name for i, name in enumerate(namelist) if n&2**i][::-1]
 ...
 >>> bitnames2(11)
 ['four', 'two', 'one']
 >>> bitnames2(9)
 ['four', 'one']
 >>> bitnames2(31)
 ['five', 'four', 'three', 'two', 'one']

HTH

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Mon Nov 15 11:34:24 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:34:24 -0500
Subject: Range of valid years for calendar module?
In-Reply-To: <Xns95A24EAB475Fjdcrane7yahoocom@130.133.1.4>
References: <Xns95A24EAB475Fjdcrane7yahoocom@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <1f7befae04111508341e14e92@mail.gmail.com>

[Jack Crane]
> Here's my calendar_for_specified_year.py.
>
> ==============================================
> # calendar_for_specified_year.py
> # print any year's calendar from 1753 A.D. through at least 3999 A.D.
> 
> import calendar
> 
> calendar.setfirstweekday(6) # sets first day of week to Sunday
> 
> year = int(raw_input("Year for which to print calendar: "))
> 
> print "\n\n"
> calendar.prcal(year)
> ===============================================
> 
> I've been trying to find out the range of years for which it will give me
> a valid calendar, and I've come up with "from 1753 to at least 3999".
...
> Does anyone know the actual range for the calendar module?

In modern Pythons, the usable range is inherited from the datetime
module:  years 1 through 9999.  This is the "proleptic Gregorian"
calendar, which means the current Gregorian calendar indefinitely
extended in both directions (past and future).  The idea that this
calendar came into universal use in 1753 is fiction -- for that
matter, so is the idea that this calendar is in univeral use today
<wink>.


From nbjelicic at gmail.com  Fri Nov 26 22:13:26 2004
From: nbjelicic at gmail.com (nbjelicic at gmail.com)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 19:13:26 -0800
Subject: Does anyone know of a Python WebDAV library?
References: <mailman.6795.1101411128.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1101525206.896934.150060@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

If you are looking for some client code you can find it in zope tree,
client.py I think, also look at
http://www.infrae.com/download/pydavclient and webdav.org
(http://www.lyra.org/greg/) hosts webdav client library



From beps at email.it  Mon Nov 22 10:43:14 2004
From: beps at email.it (Beps )
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:43:14 +0100
Subject: Text widget - insert line
Message-ID: <cnt1el$san$1@news.newsland.it>

hello,
I have got a data list.
In my Text widget each data is between the previous and the next; so they
are whole in a only block.
Now:
|--------------------
|BushBerlusconiBlair|
|AlpacinoDeNiroStall|
|oneetcetcetcetcetce|
|                   |
|                   |
|                   | 
|                   |
|-------------------|

How I have to create for each data a singular line.
right version:
|--------------------
|Bush               |
|Berlusconi         | 
|Blair              |
|Al Pacino          | 
|DeNiro             |  
|Stallone           |
|                   |
|                   |                                     
|-------------------|
Thank you very much!!!


-- 

questo articolo e` stato inviato via web dal servizio gratuito 
http://www.newsland.it/news segnala gli abusi ad abuse at newsland.it




From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Sun Nov 21 17:43:06 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 22:43:06 GMT
Subject: generic object - moving toward PEP
In-Reply-To: <Rx6od.1758$QR.382@lakeread01>
References: <aJtnd.118100$HA.81413@attbi_s01> <30c7flF2umgtjU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<Rx6od.1758$QR.382@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <_R8od.131109$R05.64715@attbi_s53>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
> 
>> +1 on this. Would be great (would it be possible to add to 2.4 still?)
>>
> 
> Not with a release candidate in distribution, no - only "must-fix" 
> changes will be made before 2.4 final.

Yeah, this is definitely targeted at 2.5.

The other Steve


From anthonybaxter at gmail.com  Sun Nov  7 10:41:41 2004
From: anthonybaxter at gmail.com (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 02:41:41 +1100
Subject: DNS caching in python2.2
In-Reply-To: <FD66B7FFB9EAE94D810A81EFCF83F5C402306158@cacexc05.americas.cpqcorp.net>
References: <FD66B7FFB9EAE94D810A81EFCF83F5C402306158@cacexc05.americas.cpqcorp.net>
Message-ID: <e69d3ed204110707415a724018@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 07:43:54 -0800, Grimm, Garth <garth.grimm at hp.com> wrote:
> Cached in the resolver library in python 2.2 (running on Windows2000).
> Thought I'd toss the question to the list, to see what kind of quick
> answer(s) I got.

Python doesn't have it's own DNS code - it uses the operation system's
libresolv/libc/whereever-it-lives-on-your-platform to do this. 

If you really want to do DNS yourself, there's a number of implementations
of DNS client code available for Python - google is your friend.


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Nov 19 16:12:09 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:12:09 +0100
Subject: Question about thread
References: <1100875373.911763@eng-ser6>
	<306ic5F2svtsdU1@uni-berlin.de>	<1100879122.755150@eng-ser4>
	<mailman.6607.1100881214.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cnlmt0$jea$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <cnlnj3$vbq$02$1@news.t-online.com>

> 
> Even after printing "finished creating threads" all spawned threads
> continue its execution up to final "thread nnnn is being destroyed", so
> I think there's no need to take any special action (unless it's Python
> on iSeries, buy this is another story) to wait for completion.

The OP used the module "thread", while you used "threading" and didn't set
setDaemon(False). Then python waits until all threads are finished.

>From the thread module docs:


When the main thread exits, it is system defined whether the other threads
survive. On SGI IRIX using the native thread implementation, they survive.
On most other systems, they are killed without executing try ... finally
clauses or executing object destructors.   

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From saint_infidel at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 16 14:12:47 2004
From: saint_infidel at hotmail.com (infidel)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 11:12:47 -0800
Subject: xmlrpclib - error marshalling new-style classes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6414.1100608425.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6414.1100608425.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1100632367.141327.87240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

The XML-RPC protocol only "understands" a specific set of "types".
Basically they amount to numbers, strings, dates, arrays (lists/tuples)
and structs (dicts) containing such items.  xmlrpclib has no way of
knowing how to map your class to such primitive types and reconstruct
it on the "other side".



From mauriceling at acm.org  Sat Nov  6 18:33:01 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 10:33:01 +1100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <c718a6cf.0411061137.683823ec@posting.google.com>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c718a6cf.0411061137.683823ec@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <418D5F2D.1080708@acm.org>


> 
> dude that "comparision" from twistedmatrix you refrence is ANCIENT!!!

I am wondering the impact when IBM decided that the base memory to not 
exceed 64kb, in the late 1960s...

I suppose more experienced people in this list can agree that certain 
decisions made can be almost an edict. So, there is a re-building 
process every now and then, hopefully to by-pass such edicts. Python 
itself is already such an example.

> 
> it is comparing versions that are YEARS out of date and use!

Are the codebase of Python 1.5.2 and Java 1.1 totally replaced and 
deprecated?

Lisp compiler is the 1st compiler to be created (according to the 
Red-Dragon book, I think) and almost all others are created by 
bootstrapping to LISP compiler. What are the implications of design 
decisions made in LISP compiler then affecting our compilers today? I 
don't know. I repeat myself, I DO NOT KNOW.

> 
> you are just trolling or your don't know enough to understand the
> answer to your question which is way to vague to be answered, as there
> is no real correct answer.

Certainly I do not have 15 PhDs in computer science or computating 
mathematics...... I suppose there are some syntax error in your 
statement to allow me to parse it completely. "too vague", not "to vague".

Thanks
maurice


From arkham at gmail.com  Sat Nov 20 09:21:41 2004
From: arkham at gmail.com (Rob Snyder)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:21:41 GMT
Subject: instances v. threads
References: <cnlq48$qf7$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<pmund.18309$Vk6.8463@twister.nyc.rr.com>
	<419e9c9b$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <VpInd.18813$Vk6.17049@twister.nyc.rr.com>

Scott David Daniels wrote:

> Rob Snyder wrote:
> ...
>> Now, suppose your class really looked like this:
>> 
>> class xyz:
>>         def one(stuff):
>>                 self.data = stuff
>> 
> 
> Let's make this (as I'm sure you know):
>  > class xyz:
>  >         def one(self, stuff):
>  >                 self.data = stuff
> 
> I just want to make sure newbies reading this doesn't get confused.
> 
> --Scott David Daniels
> Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org

<smacks head> thanks Scott!


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov  2 13:26:28 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 18:26:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041102T192153-706@post.gmane.org>

Diez B. Roggisch <deetsNOSPAM <at> web.de> writes:
> 
> I'm not sure how things are implemented internally, but I'd still say my
> definition is correct even for this example: The + operator can be viewed
> as overloaded with the signature
> 
> (float, int) -> float
> 
> But its not for (string, int) - albeit * e.g. is. 

So you would say that in PHP the + operator cannot be viewed as overloaded with
the signature (string, int) -> string?  I don't know PHP, so could you maybe you
could give an example of why you think this is so?

> The question remains if permanent coercions as php (and afaik perl) do can
> also be considered weak typing, as you won't end up with an error for more
> or less anything you do.

Sorry, I don't know what "permanent coercions" means.  Could you explain? 
"Permanent coercions" makes me expect something like:

>>> a = 1.0
>>> b = 1
>>> a + b
2.0
>>> b
1.0

where b's value has been coerced into a float (and reassigned to b) because of
the addition of a.  I'm guessing this isn't what you meant...

Steve




From pynode at centrum.cz  Wed Nov 10 17:16:16 2004
From: pynode at centrum.cz (MJR)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 14:16:16 -0800
Subject: web hosting with Python
Message-ID: <3cccb1d8.0411101416.690960c3@posting.google.com>

Hi,
anybody could recommend web hosting company which offer professional
reseller package with Python, preferable located in Europe?

Thanks,
Mike


From sw at wordtech-software.com  Fri Nov 19 14:25:42 2004
From: sw at wordtech-software.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:25:42 -0500
Subject: ANN: PyQt-Mac binary installer, 11-2004-fix, available
Message-ID: <XMrnd.3010$EM3.2501@fe37.usenetserver.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

A new verison of the PyQt-Mac binary installer  is available. This
version, PyQt-Mac-11-2004-fix, includes a rebuilt version of Qt 3.3.3
with threading support, and adds symlinks to Qt libraries in /usr/lib/
(required by Qt) and /usr/local/lib (required by PyQt). This should
address problems with installation that some users were previously
reported. This package also includes the Eric 3 IDE, written in PyQt and
packaged in a Mac application bundle.

For more information and a download link, please see
http://www.wordtech-software.com/pyqt-html .

A mailing list for PyQt-Mac has also been established. To join the
mailing list, see
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pyqt-mac-list .

- --
Kevin Walzer, PhD
WordTech Software--Open Source Applications and Packages for OS X
http://www.wordtech-software.com
http://www.smallbizmac.com
http://www.kevin-walzer.com
mailto:sw at wordtech-software.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFBnki1JmdQs+6YVcoRAtRuAJ4h+fU/7qNYpIBIHVZca0+/luBHegCdEreO
MIinJKbhmQoX+mtpciKm5UI=
=rFW9
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From ext-sateesh.kavuri at nokia.com  Wed Nov 10 08:27:50 2004
From: ext-sateesh.kavuri at nokia.com (Sateesh)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:27:50 GMT
Subject: jython and curses
Message-ID: <qHokd.29893$g4.559647@news2.nokia.com>

Hi,
Is there any version of jython that has support for curses library?
Or is there anyway I can use curses library for my jython programs?

Thanks
Sateesh




From finite.automaton at gmail.com  Mon Nov  8 17:37:08 2004
From: finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 14:37:08 -0800
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<87d5ysbkq9.fsf@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<4b39d922.0411051555.24f31663@posting.google.com>
	<x7u0s3r9gz.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <4b39d922.0411081437.277336a5@posting.google.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message news:<x7u0s3r9gz.fsf at guru.mired.org>...
> finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse) writes:
> 
> > Yes, wxPython is typically quicker than swing.  It's not fair to use
> > this in a generic Python-vs-Java speed shootout, though, since
> > wxPython is just a wrapper around wxWidgets' C++ code; you're really
> > comparing C++ vs. Java here.
> 
> Is it unfair to compare Python dictionaries to Java HashTables because
> Python is using hand-tuned C where Java is using Java? I'd say that's
> a perfectly fair comparison. If that's fair, what's unfair about
> comparing graphics toolkits that happen to be written in C rather than
> Python (is there a graphics toolkit written in Python?).
> 

Perhaps instead of "unfair", I should have written "not meaningful".  
Because wxPython is C++ code, you can't really infer that Python is
faster than Java just because wxPython is faster than Swing.   The
best meaningful assertion that can be made is that Python can be
faster than Java for GUI operations.

> That's *how* interpreted languages manage to compete with compiled
> languages - they perform the common operations in hand-tuned compiled
> code. That people tend to write Java libraries in Java rather than C
> just means they're going to get slower libraries.

Sure, but it's possible to do the same thing with Java via the JNI. 
Maybe what should be compared is the relative ease of writing native
extensions (considerably easier in Python IMHO)

> Java is interpreted just like Python is...

Java bytecodes are interpreted, but javac has the opportunity to do
some optimizations when compiling source into bytecodes that
fundamentally can't be done for Python because it's interpreted.  
There's no equivalent of "exec" in Java.   Psyco makes a valiant
attempt to do this sort of optimization (and does an excellent job!),
but it's not hard to write perfectly legal Python code that makes
Psyco explode.

[someone correct me if I'm wrong; I'm not an expert Java programmer
:P]


From jrennie at csail.mit.edu  Mon Nov 22 09:05:45 2004
From: jrennie at csail.mit.edu (Jason Rennie)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:05:45 -0500
Subject: split large file by string/regex
In-Reply-To: <v5l872-sd4.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>
References: <v5l872-sd4.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20041122140545.GA18604@csail.mit.edu>

On Mon, Nov 22, 2004 at 09:38:55AM +0100, Martin Dieringer wrote:
> I am trying to split a file by a fixed string.
> The file is too large to just read it into a string and split this.
> I could probably use a lexer but there maybe anything more simple?

If the pattern is contained within a single line, do something like this:

import re
myre = re.compile(r'foo')
fh = open(f)
fh1 = open(f1,'w')
s = fh.readline()
while not myre.search(s):
  fh1.write(s)
  s = fh.readline()
fh1.close()
fh2.open(f1,'w')
while fh
  fh2.write(s)
  s = fh.readline()
fh2.close()
fh.close()

I'm doing this off the top of my head, so this code almost certainly
has bugs.  Hopefully its enough to get you started...  Note that only
one line is held in memory at any point in time.  Oh, if there's a
chance that the pattern does not appear in the file, you'll need to
check for eof in the first while loop.

Jason


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Nov  9 10:39:39 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 09:39:39 -0600
Subject: sh: test: argument expected and /usr/bin/env
In-Reply-To: <200411091516.iA9FG9a4008952@relay.uva.es>
References: <200411091516.iA9FG9a4008952@relay.uva.es>
Message-ID: <20041109153937.GD3567@unpythonic.net>

In the #!-line of a script, everything after the first (white?)space is
taken as the first argument to the named binary, and the filename of the
script is the second argument.  This is standard Unix behavior, nothing
Python-specific.

So your second #! is like executing
    /usr/bin/env "SHELL=/bin/bash python" yourscript.py
which probably causes /usr/bin/env to be invoked again with the same
arguments, indefinitely (because the command is a #!/usr/bin/env script)

You can set environment variables in Python.  Why not add
    import os
    os.environ['SHELL'] = "/bin/bash"
just below the #!-line?

Jeff
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From wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de  Mon Nov 29 14:27:28 2004
From: wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de (Wolfgang Keller)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:27:28 +0100
Subject: Parallel Python on PowerMac?
References: <1p1mclu2nq7e8$.1o0rc9ygt2rdy$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<ukKqd.42868$Z14.18224@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <1pdhqsu1pkfm6$.z66krbg3a0of.dlg@40tude.net>

Hello,

and thanks for your reply.

> But I would venture to say that, *in the general case*, the "most 
> efficient" way to benefit from a second cpu, both in terms of coding 
> time and execution efficiency, is to use either jython

*cough* *choke*

Err, no, sorry, not for me.

> Although, iff your prospective machine supports System V IPC,

No clue whether MacOS X does so. Afaik it's basically a FreeBSD based on
Mach (from CMU) with a proprietary layer above.

> you might want to check out PoSH.

Where's the binary installer for MacOS X?

Not having to use compilers and linkers and makefiles and the like was one
of the major reasons which made Python interesting for me...

Best regards,

Wolfgang Keller


From ncoghlan at email.com  Fri Nov 26 05:23:25 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:23:25 +1000
Subject: Help please, turning off threads
In-Reply-To: <L0rpd.5109192$ic1.479040@news.easynews.com>
References: <L0rpd.5109192$ic1.479040@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <41a7041c$0$25785$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Jive wrote:
> Can someone tell me how to "configure" for no threads by hand?  Does it
> suffice just to remove the offending file threadmodule.c? If that is the
> case, why the error message rather than just

I believe the configure script removes threadmodule.c from the build process 
when threads are not enabled. I haven't actually checked, though.

Building threadmodule.c when threads aren't being used suggests a mistake in the 
build process - but is it the inclusion of threadmodule.c which is incorrect, or 
is it the lack of the WITH_THREADS definition?

Regards,
Nick.


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Sat Nov 13 14:42:31 2004
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 13:42:31 -0600
Subject: Accessing an instance via its memory address (instance at ...)
In-Reply-To: <cn2fkq$k6u$2@ikaria.belnet.be>
References: <cn2fkq$k6u$2@ikaria.belnet.be>
Message-ID: <200411131342.31730.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Friday 12 November 2004 07:59 am, simon.alexandre at cetic.be wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I have a list containing several instance address, for example:
> 
> [<JavaClass instance at 00BAC290>, <JavaClass instance at 00BB0D10>,
> <JavaClass instance at 00BA5230>]
> 
> I'd like to invoke a method on each of these instance but I don't know :
> 
> 1. if its possible
> 2. how to proceed

Well, you don't do it with a pointer. ;-)

Use the list's name, index, and call:

if you have:
>>> print mylist
[<JavaClass instance at 00BAC290>, <JavaClass instance at 00BB0D10>,
<JavaClass instance at 00BA5230>]

you can do:

mylist[0].mymethod(...)

(where "..." is whatever arguments your methods take).

You can also do things like

mylist[0].__name__
mylist[0].__module__
dir(mylist[0])

to look at the instance's metadata.

I was thrown by this a bit when I first learned python too, but
python doesn't care if you stack up operators like this, and the "."
for invoking a method and the "()" for calling a callable object
are just operators, along with indexing "[]" and so on.  Mix and
match.



--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sun Nov  7 09:31:54 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 09:31:54 -0500
Subject: Python OS
In-Reply-To: <cmk7r1$4d0$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
References: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmin1n$500$02$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6003.1099752590.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmiorc$j4b$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6021.1099783808.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmk7r1$4d0$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <418E31DA.1040502@cloudthunder.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Richard Blackwood wrote:
>
>>
>>>> P.S.  If one can program interrupt routines in C, they can do the same
>>>> in Python.
>>>
>>>
>>> Show me how you set the interrupt jumptables to your routines in 
>>> python and
>>> how you write time-critical code which has to be executed in a few 
>>> hundred
>>> cpu-cycles. And how good that works together with the GIL.
>>>
>> Here is my logic:  If one can do X in C and Python is C-aware (in 
>> other words Python can be exposed to C) then Python can do X via such 
>> exposure.
>
>
> Unfortunately the logic is flawed, even in the case that you
> quoted above!

Reread what I wrote above Peter, I said _nothing_ about speed.  It says, 
"If....then Python can do X": _can do_ NOT that If.....then Python can 
do X just as well speed wise as C.  It is not writ.

>
> You _cannot_ use Python for a time-critical interrupt, even
> when you allow for pure C or assembly code as the bridge
> (since Python _cannot_ be used natively for interrupts, of
> course), because -- as noted above! -- the interrupt must
> execute in a few hundred CPU cycles.

Are you so sure of this Peter?  It certainly seems that this might be 
possible but as you point out, if one uses Python for _time critical_ 
interrupts, the code will not live up to the _time critical_ aspect.  
Indeed, I agree and never said otherwise.  I could case less if it is 
extremely slow as speed or even usability was not my aim (I never 
indicated such either and in fact, I indicated otherwise by utilizing 
such terms as _virtual_ and _prototype_  [As Jeremy bravely points out] ).

>
> Given that the cost of invoking the Python interpreter on
> a bytecode-interrupt routine would be several orders of
> magnitude higher, I don't understand why you think it
> is possible for it to be as fast.

I never said this Peter.

>
> Of course, if you will allow both assembly/C code here and
> there as a bridge, *and* you are willing to accept an operating
> system that is arbitrarily slower at certain time-critical
> operations (such as responding to mouse activities) than we
> are used to now, then certainly Python can be used for such things...

Why thank you Peter, that is exactly my aim.


From timr at probo.com  Sun Nov  7 00:26:38 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 21:26:38 -0800
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5992.1099726289.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jccro09uusa2pfr7qbhjpcsv6aifjsafgh@4ax.com>

Maurice LING <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote:
>
>I've already said the following and was not noticed:
>
>1. it is a disk intensive I/O operation.
>2. users delay is not in the equation (there is no user input)
>3. I am not interested in the amount of time needed to develop it. But 
>only interested execution speed.

It is fabulous that you are able to enumerate your list of requirements so
completely.  I'm quite serious; many people embark on even complicated
projects without a clear understanding of the tradeoffs they will
encounter.

However, given that set of needs, why would you mess with an "exotic"
language at all?  Why wouldn't you just write straight to the metal in C++
or C?
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Sun Nov 21 18:46:48 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 21 Nov 2004 15:46:48 -0800
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <mailman.5272.1098381729.5135.python-list@python.org><1gm17og.ctwoqv17vkctxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com><419EEEAA.D3C1046F@yahoo.com><mailman.6642.1100936758.5135.python-list@python.org><87actcrhlo.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>
	<mailman.6647.1100967514.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<suRnd.4852029$ic1.459375@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <60dfb6f6.0411211546.4dc9d309@posting.google.com>

"Jive" <someone at microsoft.com> wrote in message news:<suRnd.4852029$ic1.459375 at news.easynews.com>...
> When you define a function in Python, you are (in effect) defining many
> functions, just as Issac says.  What the byte codes eventually do depends on
> type information that is acted on at runtime.  C++ has a mechanism
> (templates) for acting on the type information similarly, but at compile
> time.  However, a modern C++ compiler can do something beyond that.  It can
> recognize special cases (which the programmer must code for) and use a
> different functional form (template) for the special case than for the
> generic case.  Both STL and BGL use the mechanism extensively.


This doesn't look too hard.  Untested, cause I don't have Python 2.4
yet:

    def generic(genfunc):
        speclist = []
        def wrapf(arg):
            for (specfunc,typ) in speclist:
                if isinstance(arg,typ):
                    return specfunc(arg)
            return genfunc(arg)
        wrapf.speclist = speclist
        wrapf.func_name = genfunc.func_name # isn't this ok in 2.4?
        return wrapf

    def specializes(genf,typ):
        def spd(specf):
            genf.speclist.append((specf,typ))
            return specf
        return spd

    # so my European friends don't get too upset
    specialises = specializes

Then:

    @generic
    def some_function(arg):
        print "generic"

    @specializes(some_fuction,int)
    def some_int_specific_function(arg):
        print "int-specific"

Whence calling some_function('abc') prints "generic", and calling
some_function(123) prints "int-specific".

Obviously this example could use lots of improvement.  It only works
for functions of one argument, and it could probably do better than a
linear search through the type-dispatch list.  But it does show how it
can be done.

A couple things: I personally have a distaste for specializations,
because of the easy possibily that what is supposed to be an
optimized, but equivalent, version of the generic function does
something different (intentionaly or not).  IMO, that's much too stiff
a price for a premature optimization.  They should rarely be used
outside the final stages of development.  Or if you WANT the
specialization to behave differently, you ought to be using regular
old polymorphism.

Having said that, if you're going to use specializations, then the way
I did it above, by explicitly defining functions as generic and
specialized, is a much better way to do it than in C++ IMO.  At least
then you get advance warning of any surprises.  "Explicit is better
than implicit", 'n at.  By not supporting implicit specializations, I
think Python's doing a good job.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Tue Nov  2 10:22:00 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 07:22:00 -0800
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
In-Reply-To: <slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <4187aafe$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Gabriel Zachmann wrote:
> I am just trying to come up with the best possible definition of "weak and
> strong typing" ( "best" in the sense of completeness and objectiveness).
> I've read up quite a bit about strong/weak typing, and static and dynamic
> typing, and it seems to me that, while static/dynamic typing is a pretty
> well-defined concept, the definition of strong/weak typing is not so
> clear-cut.
How about something like this:

Strong typing respects data as invariant.  There is no way to "sneak
around" a data type and "tweak" its representation.  The reason C is
weakly typed is that you can easily get to the bits in a float (for
example), rather than always having to deal with a float with float
operations.

Strong types provide strong protection for data types as their
abstraction; weak types allow you to operate on data "behind the
wall of abstraction".  A Smalltalk programmer would say that
Python is more weakly typed than Smalltalk for user-defined types.

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From jeremy+plusnews at jeremysanders.net  Tue Nov 23 09:18:32 2004
From: jeremy+plusnews at jeremysanders.net (Jeremy Sanders)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:18:32 +0000
Subject: Distutils and alternative installation directories
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.23.14.18.32.289418@jeremysanders.net>

I've been installing modules in Unix by using

python setup.py install --home=/usr/local/python/python-2.3

In PYTHONPATH I've included the
 /usr/local/python/python-2.3/lib/python
directory (BTW, do I need to include . in PYTHONPATH?)

However, one module (Numeric) puts a file in the
/usr/local/python/python-2.3/lib/python directory. The directories in this
file don't get added to the sys.path list. Is there anyway to fix this,
except by explicitly adding the directories in the Numeric.pth file to the
PYTHONPATH?

Also I'm installing a module which uses numarray. Can I get distutils take
account of the location of numarray when building this module? It doesn't
add -I/usr/local/python/python-2.3/include to the compilation flags.

Thanks

Jeremy




From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 14:03:26 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:03:26 GMT
Subject: Python's annoyance.
In-Reply-To: <aa1af1ad.0411241047.4d5da2fd@posting.google.com>
References: <aa1af1ad.0411241047.4d5da2fd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <_V4pd.386875$wV.330416@attbi_s54>

caroundw5h wrote:
> Serioulsy, one of python's main selling points is its elegant syntax,
> non perl like, non C like. If it can't live up to it. I guess i might
> as well use perl or ruby or server side javascript.

While I'm not a fan of the decorator syntax or the $syntax in 
string.Template, you're not forced to use either of these:

Standard Python formatting vs string.Template formatting:
------------------------------------------------------------
 >>> string.Template('$page: $title').substitute(dict(page=2, title='The 
Best of Times'))
'2: The Best of Times'
 >>> '%(page)s: %(title)s' % dict(page=2, title='The Best of Times')
'2: The Best of Times'

Post-function syntax vs. decorator syntax:
------------------------------------------------------------
 >>> def require_int(func):
...     def wrapper(arg):
...         assert isinstance(arg, int)
...         return func(arg)
...     return wrapper
...
 >>> @require_int
... def p1(arg):
... 	print arg
...
 >>> def p2(arg):
... 	print arg
... 	
 >>> p2 = require_int(p2)
 >>> p1(1)
1
 >>> p1('1')
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
   File "<interactive input>", line 3, in wrapper
AssertionError
 >>> p2(1)
1
 >>> p2('1')
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
   File "<interactive input>", line 3, in wrapper
AssertionError


Personally, I never saw the gain of the string.Template class -- in most 
of my uses I can write code that's just as clear and concise using 
%-style formatting.  I do however make use of the decorator syntax -- 
it's nice to have things like classmethod indicated at the top of the 
function instead of at the bottom.

Steve


From ncoghlan at email.com  Mon Nov 22 09:08:19 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:08:19 +1000
Subject: Is Python/C api thread safety enough?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6663.1101015691.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6663.1101015691.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41a1f2d2$0$25786$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Donnie Leen wrote:
> Thanks for help.
> 
> If the long-running function comes from third-party library such as
> zlib.compress(), we don't know wether the function is safety for python
> thread, it may cause error, how could we avoid this if we have to use it?

That's a very case-specific question, so I can't really give you a good answer.

One option is always to just bite the bullet and hang on to the GIL. That can
lead to lousy behaviour in a multi-threaded app, though.

Some Python-aware 3rd party libraries (particularly Python extensions which also
export C API's) may release the GIL themselves around long-running actions.

If you're convinced that the function won't call in to the Python API (or will
acquire the GIL itself before doing so), then just release the GIL around the
long-running call.

The best source for info on which is the best option would generally be sites
specific to the library you are using.

Cheers,
Nick.


From mfuhr at fuhr.org  Tue Nov  2 13:42:04 2004
From: mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 11:42:04 -0700
Subject: getting socket.bind() exception, but no actual error
References: <1224a8f9.0411011045.6740c5d8@posting.google.com>
	<RSxhd.2736$931.635@lakeread01>
	<1224a8f9.0411021007.26ec80da@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4187d4fc$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>

clarence at silcom.com (Clarence Gardner) writes:

> And the whole point of the test in the exception handling suite (checking
> for "in use") is to repeat the bind until that's not the case. This is, of
> course, in a program in development which sometimes is not able to be 
> restarted right away after a problem.

Why not?  Because you get "Address already in use" exceptions due
to old connections still being in the TIME_WAIT state?  If so, are
you aware that server processes should usually set the SO_REUSEADDR
socket option before calling bind()?  Or is there some other reason
that bind() fails?

-- 
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Nov 19 20:05:53 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:05:53 -0800
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
In-Reply-To: <3073pnF2rf1v9U1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>	<cnlgv2$vc$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6616.1100893198.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3073pnF2rf1v9U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <10pt5sfdr8hh52e@corp.supernews.com>

Peter Maas wrote:

> Isnot is semantically equivalent to the inequality operator which is
> some hundred years old.


Actually, looking at the patent claim, this is *not* semantically 
equivalent to inequality.  It specifically mentions 'isNot' as something 
that compares memory addresses, which in Basic are normally hidden.  In 
other words, they are referring to something with the same semantics as 
Python's 'is not', comparing object identity rather than object equality.

 >>> [] is not []
1
 >>> [] != []
0
 >>>

It's still a pretty questionable patent, though.  Even without anyone 
explicitly having used 'is not' in Basic before, its prevalence in so 
many other languages would seem to fail the "nonobvious" test 
(supposedly) required for patent validity.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From mwh at python.net  Fri Nov 26 06:40:27 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:40:27 GMT
Subject: How to load new class definitions at runtime?
References: <mailman.6287.1100207213.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gn8ja3.7d3sbhuk94khN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<6542462a.0411151555.5fe41de4@posting.google.com>
	<1gnc2wp.3g6t031q0pqwgN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <m3vfbsn8ic.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:

> SM <sjmaster at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message
> news:<1gn8ja3.7d3sbhuk94khN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> > > If you need [classes] to be _updatable_ at runtime, look at a recipe by
> > > Michael Hudson in the cookbook -- I've updated it for the printed
> > > version 2nd ed (since we do have __subclasses__ now, yay!) but that's
> > > not done yet.  My vote for most useful custom metaclasses ever...

Wow, thanks :)

> > That recipe is here:
> > http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/160164
> > 
> > Is it correct that this metaclass solution does not handle changes to
> > __init__, including new attributes that are bound there? I.e., it
> 
> It doesn't rerun __init__ nor any other method on existing instances.

Well... it runs change_class on existing instances, but see below...

> > basically only deals with modification or addition or deletion of
> > methods; if you need to add new attributes or have any other new code
> > in __init__, you'll have to make new instances for all the old
> > instances, or deal with it some other way. In which case would you be
> > better off just using that other way from the start?
> 
> It's pretty trivial to enhance the recipe to run a per-instance or
> per-subclass __make_old_into_new__ method, if that method exists, on all
> existing old instances -- if you need to adjust the old instances'
> states (==attributes), that strikes me as the best architecture.

I'd sort of thought about this when I wrote the recipe initially --
it's why there is a change_class method -- but now realize that it
doesn't really work, because when you reload the module, it runs the
*old* change_class when it would (obviously) be much more useful to
somehow run a new method.

How about this diff (from what's on the recipe page now):

*** autoreloader.py~	2004-10-27 17:50:03.000000000 +0100
--- autoreloader.py	2004-11-26 11:36:45.000000000 +0000
***************
*** 27,33 ****
              if d.has_key(name):
                  old_class = d[name]
                  for instance in old_class.__instances__():
!                     instance.change_class(new_class)
                      new_class.__instance_refs__.append(
                          weakref.ref(instance))
                  # this section only works in 2.3
--- 27,34 ----
              if d.has_key(name):
                  old_class = d[name]
                  for instance in old_class.__instances__():
!                     instance.__class__ = new_class
!                     instance.update_self()
                      new_class.__instance_refs__.append(
                          weakref.ref(instance))
                  # this section only works in 2.3
***************
*** 44,51 ****
  
  class AutoReloader:
      __metaclass__ = MetaAutoReloader
!     def change_class(self, new_class):
!         self.__class__ = new_class
  
  class Bar(AutoReloader):
      pass
--- 45,52 ----
  
  class AutoReloader:
      __metaclass__ = MetaAutoReloader
!     def update_self(self):
!         pass
  
  class Bar(AutoReloader):
      pass
***************
*** 67,69 ****
--- 68,94 ----
      b2.meth(2)
      # new Baz() instances now play too:
      Baz().meth(3)
+ 
+ class C(AutoReloader):
+     def __init__(self, a):
+         self.a = 1
+     def get_attribute(self):
+         return self.a
+ 
+ c = C(1)
+ 
+ print c.get_attribute()
+ 
+ class C(AutoReloader):
+     def __init__(self, b):
+         self.b = b
+     def get_attribute(self):
+         return self.b
+     
+     def update_self(self):
+         self.b = self.a
+         del self.a
+ 
+ print c.get_attribute()
+ 
+         

Probably a bit more useful, though it has the disadvantage that it
will crash and burn if you forget to remove the update_self() method
before reloading again (that's probably inevitable, though).  Maybe
you could introduce revision numbers on the instances and the classes
or something, though this might be getting a little complex.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Important data should not be entrusted to Pinstripe, as it may
  eat it and make loud belching noises.
   -- from the announcement of the beta of "Pinstripe" aka. Redhat 7.0


From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Fri Nov 12 09:54:57 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:54:57 +0100
Subject: Plone and mod_python
In-Reply-To: <_W2ld.13847$3_.7301@ns2.gip.net>
References: <7l1ld.13845$3_.7287@ns2.gip.net>
	<gr3aeg0wjjx.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
	<_W2ld.13847$3_.7301@ns2.gip.net>
Message-ID: <4194ce83$0$27764$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Tony Ha wrote:
> Hello Thornsten and Bruno
> 
> Thanks very much for the explanations, from your answers, it looks like, it
> is better
> to use "Plone + Apache". 

"better" depends on your needs !-)

> Is this means I need to install Apache, then Plone,
> and
> configure Apache or Plone to talk to each other?

This means that you need to install at least Zope and Plone. If you want 
  or need to run Zope behind Apache, you'll of course need to install 
and configure Apache...

> But under the plone.org downloads it offer a bundle installer for Window XP.
> Does
> this mean the bundle will use Zope and the built-in Medusa as the web
> server? and I
> do not need Apache?

Zope comes with a builtin web server, Medusa, which also exists as a 
stand-alone web server. So you don't *need* any other web server.

You *can* run Zope 'behind' Apache, the latter forwarding requests to 
the former.

Wether you *want* to run Zope 'standalone' or behind Apache depends on 
your needs. We can't make this choice for you !-)

NB : I just don't know what's in the Plone XP package, if Zope is 
included or not, but I doubt that it will contain Apache anyway !-)

HTH
Bruno



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov 29 06:40:17 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:40:17 +0100
Subject: how to drop all thread ??
References: <coechh$amh$1@netnews.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <cof1r1$qeu$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Leon wrote:

> if class A(
> use threading,thread module
> ) to produce 100 thread,how to drop its (100 thread) when its running

By exiting. There is no other way to stop a thread by force. Of course you
can write a run()-method like this:


def run(self):
    while self.running_condition:
        # do something
        pass

If that running-condition is queried often enough, you can stop the thread
by setting it to false.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Tue Nov  9 08:55:39 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 08:55:39 -0500
Subject: Python OS
In-Reply-To: <4190BD75.8040105@cloudthunder.com>
References: <418FE518.6000306@gmx.de> <4190BD75.8040105@cloudthunder.com>
Message-ID: <4190CC5B.6030003@bellsouth.net>

Richard Blackwood wrote:

> Kay Schluehr wrote:
>
>>> / Richard Blackwood wrote:
>>
>>
>> /
>>
>>> What I do not quite understand is the overall assertion that 
>>> low-level aspects of OS design can not be simulated.  Interrupts 
>>> were much discussed, but I ask: can one not simulate interrupts?  It 
>>> seems absurd to me that this would be impossible.  
>>
>>
>>
>> This is indeed trivial. It can be reduced to the statement that the 
>> Python language is Turing-complete. What remains unclear in this 
>> discussion is the perspective on "Python". Somewhere we have to leave 
>> the sim in order to run a concrete
>> system. 
>
>
> What does this mean?  Run a "concrete system"?

And why do we have to leave the sim?  I've said that I don't care if the 
virtual operating system talks to real hardware or not.  Actually, it 
would be really cool if it didn't.  Richard seems to concur with this 
for his purposes.  So, if Richard doesn't care about talking directly to 
hardware, then the sim _is_ the concrete system.

>
>> The different high level representations of the concept "hardware 
>> interrupt" have to be projected onto one and only one that is 
>> feasible by the machine. If I interpret Your concerns correctly, You 
>> obtain a greater flexibility on the sim-level, which should influence 
>> again the "real" OS machine code?
>
>
> If possible but not a necessity.

I would envision a virtual machine (read, a piece of software that 
emulates processor, storage devices, etc) **written in Python** which 
provides the faux low-level system calls to the operating system **also 
written in Python** which does the things that real operating systems 
do.  Such a system could be as simple as emulating an 8-bit processor, 
tape drive, keyboard for input and line printer for output, 64KB of 
RAM.  Pretty much a useless OS/hardware platform by today's standards.  
I don't think Richard ever was meaning prototyping for the purpose of 
creating a functional OS not in Python.

>
>> The model of this relationship is Psyco in the PyPy realm: being 
>> itself a Python program, that generates machine code on the fly that 
>> drives again the interpreter, that runs Psyco. But this tangled 
>> hierarchy in which OS and Python-Interpreter drive each other may
>> be my own fantasy, that has nothing to do with Your "prototyping" 
>> intention
>> in the closer sense ... ?
>
>
> It may have a home in my intentions, but a splendid fantasy regardless.
>
>>
>> Regards       Kay
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> - Richard B.


feeling-like-i-am-beating-a-dead-horse-ly y'rs,

Jeremy Jones


From br_y at yahoo.de  Mon Nov 22 02:37:27 2004
From: br_y at yahoo.de (Birgit Rahm)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:37:27 +0100
Subject: [Beginner] delete items of [] also from memory
Message-ID: <cns50t$5ip$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Hello newsgroup,

I am a beginner, so I am asking maybe immoderate questions.
I want to delete a [] variable, after filling it with complex objects. How
should I do it?
e.g.
AAA = []
AAA = [B, C, D, E, F]
Can I
1) AAA = []
2) del AAA[0:]
3) ?
whats about the computers memory, will it get free? Or will it get more and
more while Python is running?


--

Mit freundlichen Gr??en / best regards
Birgit Rahm




From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Nov 16 17:59:16 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 23:59:16 +0100
Subject: Pictograms and Python
References: <81a41dd.0411160125.1aa4c7c1@posting.google.com>
	<cncrmi$avo$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<opshlcfmyp1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
Message-ID: <cne0nu$t99$04$1@news.t-online.com>

> Of course, these only matter if the number of documents is large.  I don't
> know what is the likelihood that the OP wanted the help for nefarious
> purposes, but I found it presumptuous of you to assume so just off-the-bat
> as you did.  I would feel rather insulted had I been the OP. I'm sure you
> can understand.

If I may quote the OP's first post on performing http requests from two days
ago:

"""
I have a sript that downloads a webpage. According to the picture??on?
this webpage I need to pass a parameter to this , running script a few
lines later.
"""

When I first read that, I already assumed that he wanted to circumvent some
registration CAPTCHA - but I wasn't sure, so I didn't say anything. But the
question for extracting characters from an image makes it clear IMHO. Of
course I might be wrong, and then I'm willing to express my sincere
apologies.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Wed Nov 17 11:30:26 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:30:26 -0700
Subject: ruby on rails ... python on ?
In-Reply-To: <cnftkp$doc$1@newslocal.mitre.org>
References: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>	<mailman.5772.1099330973.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cnftkp$doc$1@newslocal.mitre.org>
Message-ID: <419B7CA2.4010906@pythonapocrypha.com>

Jeff Blaine wrote:
> 6yr-Python-fanatic-feeling-the-ruby-pull

Like I said before - if you're feeling the Ruby pull, go for it. I tried Ruby 
and rather strongly disliked it. If, instead, you're feeling the Rails pull (you 
feel the ideas behind Rails have merit), then why not just port it to Python?

-Dave


From kbk at shore.net  Wed Nov 10 23:01:21 2004
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 23:01:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Weekly Python Patch/Bug Summary
Message-ID: <200411110401.iAB41LE3007062@h006008a7bda6.ne.client2.attbi.com>

Patch / Bug Summary
___________________

Patches :  244 open ( +3) /  2698 closed (+15) /  2942 total (+18)
Bugs    :  771 open (-13) /  4595 closed (+28) /  5366 total (+15)
RFE     :  157 open ( -1) /   134 closed ( +3) /   291 total ( +2)

New / Reopened Patches
______________________

add missing __all__ to pickletools.py  (2004-11-07)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1061679  opened by  George Yoshida

fix for bug 1055168 (pdb not entering the right frame)  (2004-11-06)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1061767  opened by  Ilya Sandler

use a new -m option in pdb and profile invocations  (2004-11-06)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1061780  opened by  Ilya Sandler

Source code encoding in IDLE console  (2004-11-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1061803  opened by  Hye-Shik Chang

[ 1061857 ] Error and omission in logging docs  (2004-11-07)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1061882  opened by  Jeroen Vloothuis

fix for bug 878275 class MyTest(unittest.TestSuite)  (2004-11-07)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1061904  opened by  Irmen de Jong

Relative to bug #1061857  -- logging docs  (2004-11-07)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1061924  opened by  Rodrigo Dias Arruda Senra

[ 971872 ] An apparent bug in help  (2004-11-07)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1061931  opened by  Jeroen Vloothuis

fix for 988120 httplib.py not updating length correctly  (2004-11-07)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1061941  opened by  Irmen de Jong

fix for 764437 AF_UNIX socket special linux socket names  (2004-11-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1062014  opened by  Irmen de Jong

Fix for bug issue #1038693 -- bad link in Tkinter docs  (2004-11-07)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1062018  opened by  Rodrigo Dias Arruda Senra

Half-fix for 1027771 - DOM insertBefore  (2004-11-07)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1062033  opened by  Rodrigo Dias Arruda Senra

fix for 1016880 urllib.urlretrieve silently truncates dwnld  (2004-11-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1062060  opened by  Irmen de Jong

deque pickling problems  (2004-11-08)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1062279  opened by  Dima Dorfman

set pickling problems  (2004-11-08)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1062353  opened by  Dima Dorfman

Pickle breakage with reduction of recursive structures  (2004-11-08)
       http://python.org/sf/1062277  opened by  Dima Dorfman

distutils and python 1.5.2  (2004-11-09)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1063059  opened by  Davide Alberani

Tkinter clipboard_get method (new in Tk 8.4)  (2004-11-10)
       http://python.org/sf/1063914  opened by  Martin Franklin

Patches Closed
______________

add missing __all__ to pickletools.py  (2004-11-06)
       http://python.org/sf/1061679  closed by  tim_one

fix for bug 1055168 (pdb not entering the right frame)  (2004-11-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1061767  closed by  jlgijsbers

use a new -m option in pdb and profile invocations  (2004-11-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1061780  closed by  rhettinger

[ 1061857 ] Error and omission in logging docs  (2004-11-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1061882  closed by  jlgijsbers

fix for bug 878275 class MyTest(unittest.TestSuite)  (2004-11-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1061904  closed by  jlgijsbers

Check for NULL returns in compile.c:com_import_stmt  (2004-09-10)
       http://python.org/sf/1025636  closed by  jhylton

Relative to bug #1061857  -- logging docs  (2004-11-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1061924  closed by  jlgijsbers

[ 971872 ] An apparent bug in help  (2004-11-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1061931  closed by  jlgijsbers

fix for 988120 httplib.py not updating length correctly  (2004-11-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1061941  closed by  jhylton

Update HTTPRespnse.length  (2004-07-10)
       http://python.org/sf/988642  closed by  jhylton

Fix for bug issue #1038693 -- bad link in Tkinter docs  (2004-11-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1062018  closed by  jlgijsbers

Half-fix for 1027771 - DOM insertBefore  (2004-11-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1062033  closed by  jlgijsbers

deque pickling problems  (2004-11-08)
       http://python.org/sf/1062279  closed by  rhettinger

set pickling problems  (2004-11-08)
       http://python.org/sf/1062353  closed by  rhettinger

distutils and python 1.5.2  (2004-11-09)
       http://python.org/sf/1063059  closed by  loewis

New / Reopened Bugs
___________________

test_socket fails  (2004-11-06)
       http://python.org/sf/1061429  opened by  TPJ

spelling error in win installer  (2004-11-06)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1061457  opened by  Simon Dahlbacka

Manual typesets bit-shift operators as guillemet  (2004-11-06)
       http://python.org/sf/1061770  opened by  Brion Vibber

Error and omission in logging docs  (2004-11-07)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1061857  opened by  Kent Johnson

"k" specifier in PyArg_ParseTuple incomplete documentated  (2004-11-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1061920  opened by  Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro

threads: segfault or Py_FatalError at exit  (2004-11-07)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1061968  opened by  Armin Rigo

test_subprocess fails on winXP  (2004-11-07)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1061991  opened by  Miki Tebeka

locale.getdefaultlocale() returns wrong encoding  (2004-11-08)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1062261  opened by  Andreas Jung

pwent objects from the pwd module ar e not pickle-able  (2004-11-08)
       http://python.org/sf/1062708  opened by  Keith Dart

not enough information in SGMLParserError?  (2004-11-09)
       http://python.org/sf/1063229  opened by  Alan Ezust

test_subprocess 2.4b2 fails on tru64  (2004-11-10)
       http://python.org/sf/1063571  opened by  roadkill

Modules/zipimport.c does not compile on solaris  (2004-11-08)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1062495  opened by  Niki W. Waibel

optparse docs mildly mangled  (2004-11-10)
       http://python.org/sf/1063757  opened by  Michael Hudson

IDLE aborts on any error when started with "-n"  (2004-11-10)
       http://python.org/sf/1063840  opened by  Miki Tebeka

asyncore should handle ECONNRESET in send  (2004-11-10)
       http://python.org/sf/1063924  opened by  Florent Guillaume

Random core dumps  (2004-11-10)
       http://python.org/sf/1063937  opened by  munder12

Bugs Closed
___________

spelling error in win installer  (2004-11-06)
       http://python.org/sf/1061457  closed by  rhettinger

Why does Python link to Foundation?  (2004-09-24)
       http://python.org/sf/1034277  closed by  bcannon

time module returns wrong timezone under windows  (2004-10-24)
       http://python.org/sf/1053539  closed by  bcannon

incorrect "'yield' outside function" error  (2004-11-04)
       http://python.org/sf/1060135  closed by  rhettinger

compiler.transformer, "from module import *"  (2004-10-31)
       http://python.org/sf/1057835  closed by  mwh

pdb.set_trace should go up one more frame  (2004-10-27)
       http://python.org/sf/1055168  closed by  jlgijsbers

Buffer overflow in socketmodule.c  (2004-11-04)
       http://python.org/sf/1060396  closed by  jhylton

test_unicode_file fails on win2k  (2004-07-12)
       http://python.org/sf/989338  closed by  loewis

2.4b1 Win32 installer eliminates 2.3 assoc  (2004-10-20)
       http://python.org/sf/1050486  closed by  loewis

Error and omission in logging docs  (2004-11-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1061857  closed by  jlgijsbers

Implicit close() should check for errors  (2004-05-24)
       http://python.org/sf/959379  closed by  astrand

subprocess on Windows: extra windows  (2004-10-29)
       http://python.org/sf/1057061  closed by  astrand

An apparent bug in help  (2004-06-12)
       http://python.org/sf/971872  closed by  jlgijsbers

httplib.HTTPResponse.read() not updating the length correctl  (2004-07-09)
       http://python.org/sf/988120  closed by  jhylton

subprocess on Windows 2: unexpected failure  (2004-10-29)
       http://python.org/sf/1057052  closed by  astrand

threads: segfault or Py_FatalError at exit  (2004-11-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1061968  closed by  arigo

subprocess fails for args="...", executable="..."  (2004-10-29)
       http://python.org/sf/1056441  closed by  astrand

test_subprocess fails on winXP  (2004-11-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1061991  closed by  tebeka

bad link in Tkinter docs  (2004-10-01)
       http://python.org/sf/1038693  closed by  jlgijsbers

file.next() info hidden  (2004-09-29)
       http://python.org/sf/1036626  closed by  jlgijsbers

In DOM Node Objects, add more explanations for insertBefore  (2004-09-14)
       http://python.org/sf/1027771  closed by  jlgijsbers

httplib throws a TypeError when the target host disconnects  (2002-08-06)
       http://python.org/sf/591349  closed by  jlgijsbers

locale.getdefaultlocale() returns wrong encoding  (2004-11-08)
       http://python.org/sf/1062261  closed by  jlgijsbers

senddigest error  (2004-09-01)
       http://python.org/sf/1020605  closed by  facundobatista

Memory leakage in SAX with exception  (2002-07-31)
       http://python.org/sf/589149  closed by  facundobatista

Include/pyport.h: Bad LONG_BIT assumption on non-glibc sys  (2004-09-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1023838  closed by  cdgregorr

test_xrange fails on osf1 v5.1b  (2004-09-06)
       http://python.org/sf/1022813  closed by  dharma_roadkill

Modules/zipimport.c does not compile on solaris  (2004-11-08)
       http://python.org/sf/1062495  closed by  rhettinger

New / Reopened RFE
__________________

Remove troublesome assert in trace.py  (2004-11-07)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1062190  opened by  Jp Calderone

RFE Closed
__________

lock-free data structures?  (2004-11-03)
       http://python.org/sf/1059545  closed by  tim_one

optparse error method doesn't print option info  (2004-07-29)
       http://python.org/sf/1000439  closed by  nestler

Remove troublesome assert in trace.py  (2004-11-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1062190  closed by  rhettinger



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Nov  4 07:25:26 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 13:25:26 +0100
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10oim483n2b7r7f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <cmd73m$k1o$02$1@news.t-online.com>

> A case could be made that this "problem" isn't really valid if you look
> at "implicit coercions" in the right way.
> 
> I'd argue that a programmer-overloaded operation providing coercion is
> not _implicit_ in the same sense that language-default coercion is.
> Admittedly, the coercion may not be immediately evident at the point of
> use, but one can still find the explicitly-coercing code somewhere
> inside the application (and/or included libraries).  In contrast, the
> coercions that happen in Perl, PHP, etc., are not explicitly stated
> *anywhere* in the application.  The difference between these two
> scenarios is, at least in my mind, very distinct and (at least as far as
> language philosophy) very profound -- it's one of *permitting*
> semi-implicit coercions (if the programmer *really* wants them) versus
> one of *mandating* implicit coercions whether the programmer wants them
> or not.

I'd second that - writing apus in php can lead to great surprises of what
actually happens - take this for example:

$foo = "abc";
$foo[0] = 65;

The result is 

"6bc"

I have no idea what php actually _does_ here- perform a string conversion on
65, then taking the most signficant digit? There's all sorts of stuff like
that in php.

So while overloading allows for deliberate (and thus hopefully well-defined
or at least more or less understood) coercions, built-in doesen't. 

And don't forget: If you don't like the way someone overloaded some
operator, you can alter that behaviour according to your own design
philosophies.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From jbperez808 at wahoo.com  Thu Nov 11 01:13:53 2004
From: jbperez808 at wahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:13:53 +0800
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5992.1099726289.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5992.1099726289.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2vgdmtF2l0spnU1@uni-berlin.de>

Maurice LING wrote:

> I've already said the following and was not noticed:
> 
> 1. it is a disk intensive I/O operation.

I see no reason why disk I/O bound operations should
be slower in Python than in Java.  It's the same
C API calls underneath and very little bytecode
interpretation is going on when it is being done.


From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Tue Nov 30 09:52:50 2004
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:52:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Question on sorting
References: <81a41dd.0411291029.4cff137d@posting.google.com>
	<0gKqd.72252$7i4.43429@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <coi1g2$iuc$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

wes weston <wweston at att.net> writes:

>Lad wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I have a file of records of 4 fields each.
>> Each field is separated by a semicolon. That is
>> 
>> Filed1;Ffield2;Field3;Field4
>> 
>> But there may be also empty records such as
>> ;;;;
>> (only semicolons).
>> 
>> For sorting I used
>> #################
>> lines = file('Config.txt').readlines()# a file I want to sort
>> lines.sort()
>> ff=open('ConfigSorted.txt','w')# sorted file
>> ff.writelines(lines)
>> ff.close()
>> ###############
>> It was sorted but empty records were first. I need them to be last(at
>> the end of the file). How can I do that?
>> 
>> Thanks for help
>> Lad

>Lad,
>    The sort call can have a function name as an arg. You
>could do:

>def mycompare(s1,s2):
>#return -1 to put s1's at front; 1 to put s1's at back; 0 for a tie
>#if s1==";;;;" and s2<>";;;;": return 1

>lines.sort(mycompare)

I can't help feeling that the OP might have really wanted to be sorting on
individual fields rather than whole lines.  In which case I would think of
doing a line.split(';') on each line before sorting.  It would still need
either to use a function to make empty fields go later or alternatively use
DSU (google!) and convert '' to say '~' and back again. This also solves the
problem of what to expect when only some of the fields are blank rather than
all of them.

Eddie



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Nov  4 19:17:27 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 01:17:27 +0100
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmp6xu.zmiw6gs3250sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5890.1099529745.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmpyz8.11h86a71kjmdttN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5916.1099587353.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdntd$788$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5920.1099589545.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdrhf$d2c$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5925.1099594558.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10ol7sqdr84k619@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.5935.1099604609.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmegqg$ea2$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Steven Bethard wrote:

> Michael Hobbs <mike <at> hobbshouse.org> writes:
>> 
>> One word: union
>> 
> 
> Interestingly, unions can be well-defined even in a strongly-typed
> language, e.g. OCaml:
> 
> # type int_or_list = Int of int | List of int list;;
> type int_or_list = Int of int | List of int list
> # Int 1;;
> - : int_or_list = Int 1
> # List [1; 2];;
> - : int_or_list = List [1; 2]

Unions in functional languages are also known as direct sums of types (as
opposed to products, which form tuples). And trying to access a union that
holds an int as list will yield an error - runtime, most probably. So there
is no way of reinterpreting an int as list, which still satisfies the
paragdigms of a strong typed language.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Sat Nov 27 15:20:10 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:20:10 -0500
Subject: new with zope: merge two zexp
In-Reply-To: <41a89c62$0$13464$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
References: <41a89c62$0$13464$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <OeCdnerf-OTkfDXcRVn-vw@giganews.com>

vincent delft wrote:

> Is there a way to merge 2 zexp developed by 2 different developers on two
> different zope server?

> Does playing with the "export to xml" in cvs is a valid solution ?

No and no.

Istvan.


From drew at gremlinhosting.com  Thu Nov 18 10:36:33 2004
From: drew at gremlinhosting.com (Andrew James)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:36:33 +0000
Subject: TPG error when using 't' as the first letter of a token
In-Reply-To: <uK1nd.29363$KJ6.21303@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <mailman.6536.1100768465.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<uK1nd.29363$KJ6.21303@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1100792193.27722.35.camel@odin>

Greg,
Thanks for your response. Thought about this and tried with a lowercase
'n' and a few other letters to check it out. It ran fine, so I'm back to
square one ;-/

TPG is a parser generator for Python (which is really quite cool) and
can be found at: http://christophe.delord.free.fr/en/tpg/

Can anyone else offer any insight?

Regards,
Andrew

On Thu, 2004-11-18 at 13:48 +0000, Greg Krohn wrote:
> Andrew James wrote:
> > Gentlemen,
> > 
> > I'm running into a problem whilst testing the parsing of a language I've
> > created with TPG . It seems that for some reason, TPG balks when I try
> > to parse an expression whose first letter is 't' (or, in fact, at any
> > time when 't' is at the beginning of a token). This doesn't happen with
> > any other letter (as far as I know), nor if the 'T' is capitalised.
> 
> I have no idea what TPG is, but if it's only having trouble with a lower 
> case t, could it be that the t is somehow getting escaped and TPG thinks 
> it's a tab character?
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> greg
-- 
Andrew James <drew at gremlinhosting.com>



From davecook at nowhere.net  Tue Nov 30 05:01:29 2004
From: davecook at nowhere.net (Dave Cook)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:01:29 GMT
Subject: Python GTK import error
References: <b7420408.0411231408.38c2f03a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrncqoh7p.ben.davecook@localhost.localdomain>

On 2004-11-23, Qianqian Fang <Qianqian.Fang at Dartmouth.Edu> wrote:
> ImportError: /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0: undefined symbol:

Try setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH:

export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/lib

or wherever the .so is.  If this works, add that dir to 

/etc/ld.so.conf

and run (as root)

ldconfig -v

Dave Cook


From theller at python.net  Tue Nov 30 11:15:37 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:15:37 +0100
Subject: Class methods in Python/C?
References: <mailman.6921.1101822898.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k6s3s47q.fsf@python.net>

Jp Calderone <exarkun at divmod.com> writes:

> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 22:39:15 +1000, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at email.com> wrote:
>>Craig Ringer wrote:
>> > Hi folks
>> > 
>> > I've been doing some looking around, but have been unable to find out
>> > how to implement class methods on Python objects written in C. "Why are
>> > you using C?" you ask?
>> > 
>> > Yeah, so do I. However, I need to provide bindings for an application
>> > that Python is embedded into, and thanks to Qt the bindings are going to
>> > be both simple and quite powerful. However, I need a way to do class
>> > methods...
>> > 
>> > If anybody has any tips on this, It'd be much appreciated.
>> 
>> You probably want to look at staticmethod(). (classmethod() is
>> slightly different, and probably not what you want. In fact,
>> classmethod() is practically *never* what you want. Guido wrote it
>> himself, and even he ended up not using it)

> >   Funny, I find the exact opposite to be the case... ;) Static
> >   methods are glorified free functions, but class methods
> >   participate usefully in inheritence hierarchies - why would anyone
> >   want the former?

Same for me.

To answer the original question: To create class methods in C code, you
use the METH_CLASS flag in the PyMethodDef structure.  Supported in
Python 2.3 and above, in 2.2 it is more complicated.  If needed, I can
post a snippet for 2.2 as well.

Thomas


From keir at thelawsons.plus.com  Tue Nov  9 08:56:54 2004
From: keir at thelawsons.plus.com (Keir Lawson)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 13:56:54 +0000
Subject: determine IP
In-Reply-To: <3ADD583A-30DE-11D9-A056-003065B11E84@leafe.com>
References: <20041107165357.14104.909475493.divmod.quotient.1252@ohm>
	<3ADD583A-30DE-11D9-A056-003065B11E84@leafe.com>
Message-ID: <1100008614.4672.1.camel@debian>

well on machines i tested, it returns the local IP. this method works
swell under the right conditions, but i dont know where my prog is going
to be run, perhaps it will be over a LAN without internet access (so it
wont be able to get to google) - is there a more robust solution?

thanks for your help so far

Keir Lawson

On Sun, 2004-11-07 at 11:58 -0500, Ed Leafe wrote:
> On Nov 7, 2004, at 11:53 AM, exarkun at divmod.com wrote:
> 
> >   The above code will _always_ return the local IP address, regardless 
> > of NAT configuration.  For example, running on my desktop:
> >
> >>>> import socket
> >>>> s = socket.socket()
> >>>> s.connect(('google.com', 80))
> >>>> print s.getsockname()
> >     ('192.168.42.4', 40044)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> 
> 	Not OMM:
> 
>  >>> import socket
>  >>> s = socket.socket()
>  >>> s.connect(('google.com', 80))
>  >>> s.getsockname()
> ('66.66.222.137', 55096)
>  >>>
> 
> 	The local IP address is in the 192.168 subnet.
> 
>       ___/
>      /
>     __/
>    /
>   ____/
>   Ed Leafe
>   http://leafe.com/
>   http://dabodev.com/
> 
-- 



From rkern at ucsd.edu  Thu Nov 18 11:04:40 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 08:04:40 -0800
Subject: numarray
In-Reply-To: <cnifqa$cvp$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <2617fd5d.0411180721.12c50d8a@posting.google.com>
	<cnifqa$cvp$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cnih6q$74s$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>>if I just enter
>>
>>
>>>>>Import Numeric
>>
>>I get
>>
>>
>>indicating that numarray is installed correctly.
>>
>>What am I doing wrong?
> 
> 
> I doubt that that works. "Import" won't do it - it yields a syntax error.
> 
> What you meant is 
> 
> import Numarray

Actually,

   import numarray

Note the case. In addition,

   import Numeric

will import Numeric, not numarray. But otherwise, Diez is correct.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From klapotec at chello.at  Thu Nov 25 03:33:11 2004
From: klapotec at chello.at (Christopher Koppler)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 08:33:11 GMT
Subject: Python's annoyance.
References: <aa1af1ad.0411241047.4d5da2fd@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.25.05.54.16.884073@jerf.org>
	<41a504f5$0$17368$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.25.08.32.56.161580@chello.at>

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 23:02:01 +0100, Michel Claveau - abstraction
m?ta-galactique non triviale en fuite perp?tuelle. wrote:

> Hi !
> 
> Just for fun (?) :
> 
> A qsort in "J-programming-language" :
> 
>     qsort =: ]`(($:@:((}.<:{.)#}.)),{.,($:@:((}.>{.)#}.)))@.(*@#)
> 
> 
> 
> More infos here :  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_programming_language


Well, as J is mostly APL dressed up in ASCII, it's bound to be readable...
I've found it convenient for some numerical problems though. And getting
my head around it definitely broadened my perspective - so much in fact,
that I mostly run screaming from most APL-like languages since I found
Python :-)

-- 
Christopher



From mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net  Sun Nov 21 13:15:36 2004
From: mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net (Jean Brouwers)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:15:36 GMT
Subject: wxpython grid GRIDTABLE_NOTIFY_ROWS_DELETED
References: <39cbe663.0411210343.6a1de0ed@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <211120041016568539%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>


Change the message call in RemoveData() to

  self.GetView().ProcessTableMessage(wx.grid.GridTableMessage(
    self,wx.grid.GRIDTABLE_NOTIFY_ROWS_DELETED,  len(data),  1))

The ..._ROW_DELETED message requires two args, the index of the first
row and the number of rows to be removed.  Similarly for colums.

/Jean Brouwers
 ProphICy Semiconductor, Inc.

PS) Also, check the DoUpdate() method in this example

<http://www.bitpim.org/pyxr/c/projects/bitpim/bpmedia.py.html>


In article <39cbe663.0411210343.6a1de0ed at posting.google.com>, Piet
<pit.grinja at gmx.de> wrote:

> Hello,
> I have written a small program which dynamically displays data from a
> data structure in a wx.grid. The grid reacts as expected when the data
> structure is enlarged: a new row is added and filled with data. When
> data is removed, the data is deleted as expected, but instead of being
> removed, a row is being added to the grid. Can anyone explain why?
> Here is sample code to illustrate what I mean.
> Thanks in advance
> Piet
> import  wx
> import  wx.grid
> #---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> class XmlTableModel(wx.grid.PyGridTableBase):
>     def __init__(self,headers,data):
>         wx.grid.PyGridTableBase.__init__(self)
>         self.headers = headers
>         self.data = data
> 
>     def GetNumberRows(self):
>         return len(self.data)
> 
>     def GetNumberCols(self):
>         return len(self.headers)
> 
>     def RemoveData(self,rowNum):
>         self.data.pop()
>        
> self.GetView().ProcessTableMessage(wx.grid.GridTableMessage(self,wx.grid.GRIDT
> ABLE_NOTIFY_ROWS_DELETED,1))
> 
>     def AddData(self,data):
>         self.data.append(data)
>        
> self.GetView().ProcessTableMessage(wx.grid.GridTableMessage(self,wx.grid.GRIDT
> ABLE_NOTIFY_ROWS_APPENDED,1))
> 
>     def IsEmptyCell(self, row, col):
>         try:
>             if self.data[row][col] != "":
>                 return True
>             else:
>                 return False
>         except:
>             return False
> 
>     def GetValue(self, row, col):
>         return self.data[row][col]
> 
>     def SetValue(self, row, col, value):
>         self.data[row][col] = value
> 
>     def GetColLabelValue(self, col):
>         return self.headers[col]
> 
>     def GetDefaultColLabelSize(self):
>         return 100
> 
>     def GetRowLabelValue(self, row):
>         return self.data[row][0]
> #---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> class TestFrame(wx.Frame):
>     def __init__(self, parent):
>         wx.Frame.__init__(self, parent, -1, "Simple Table Model Demo",
> size=(640,480))
>         self.panel = wx.Panel(self, -1, style=0)
>         self.grid = wx.grid.Grid(self.panel)
>         self.headers = ["Eins","Zwei","Drei","Vier"]
>         self.data = [["A1","A2","A3","A4"],
>                      ["B1","B2","B3","B4"],
>                      ["C1","C2","C3","C4"],
>                      ["D1","D2","D3","D4"]]
>         self.grid.SetTable(XmlTableModel(self.headers,self.data),
> True)
>         self.AddBtn = wx.Button(self.panel, -1, "Add Entry")
>         self.AddBtn.SetDefault()
>         self.Bind(wx.EVT_BUTTON, self.OnAddEntry, self.AddBtn)
>         self.RemoveBtn = wx.Button(self.panel, -1, "Remove Entry")
>         self.Bind(wx.EVT_BUTTON, self.OnRemoveEntry, self.RemoveBtn)
>         self.bs = wx.BoxSizer(wx.VERTICAL)
>         self.bs.Add(self.grid, 1, wx.GROW|wx.ALL, 5)
>         self.bs.Add(self.AddBtn)
>         self.bs.Add(self.RemoveBtn)
>         self.panel.SetSizer(self.bs)
> 
>     def OnAddEntry(self, evt):
>         self.grid.GetTable().AddData(["NA1","NA2","NA3","NA4"])
> 
>     def OnRemoveEntry(self, evt):
>         self.grid.GetTable().RemoveData(0)
> 
> #---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     import sys
>     app = wx.PySimpleApp()
>     frame = TestFrame(None)
>     frame.Show(True)
>     app.MainLoop()
> #---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From gordonp1 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 13 19:46:29 2004
From: gordonp1 at yahoo.com (Peter Gordon)
Date: 13 Nov 2004 16:46:29 -0800
Subject: Is there something like tcl "send" command in Python
Message-ID: <aa24ae0d.0411131646.6e57355f@posting.google.com>

Is there somethin like tcl "send" command in Python. I would like to
be able to exucate calls in a python program on one machine from
another machine.


From news at grauer-online.de  Tue Nov 30 05:35:36 2004
From: news at grauer-online.de (Uwe Grauer)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:35:36 +0100
Subject: comment out more than 1 line at once?
In-Reply-To: <cohg3q$2q1b5$1@claire.desy.de>
References: <cohc71$2pqli$1@claire.desy.de>
	<mailman.6908.1101807392.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cohg3q$2q1b5$1@claire.desy.de>
Message-ID: <cohidt$f81$1@online.de>

Riko Wichmann wrote:
> I'm using emacs (with python-mode) to do most of my editing. also tried 
> IDLE from python already, which is nice but an old dog doesn't like to 
> learn new tricks :)
> 
> Maybe I just don't know to comment out whole blocks using editor 
> commands. Probably the trick Marc mentions in the following post will do 
> the job.
> 
> I use it to test pieces of a modules which usually is imported from 
> another. For testing different parts, I usually have different __main__ 
> sections in the file ....
> 
> Cheers,
> 
>     Riko
> 

Riko,

if you are using emacs, try C-c # to comment out a block of code.
Unfortunally Uncomment is not bound to a key by default.
Do a key-binding for it by yourself.

Uwe


From drewmccormack at mac.com  Sat Nov 27 03:35:24 2004
From: drewmccormack at mac.com (Drew McCormack)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 09:35:24 +0100
Subject: [ANN] Forpedo: A (python-written) preprocessor for Fortran generics
Message-ID: <10qgf2brb5j3f71@corp.supernews.com>

Sorry for the crosspost:

I have started developing a preprocessor that implements generics (like 
C++ templates) in Fortran.
It is written in Python, and completely free.

You can download it here:

http://www.maniacalextent.com/forpedo/

I would like to hear from anyone who is interested in developing this 
further, and perhaps developing a library of standard container types 
for Fortran, much like STL in C++.

Drew McCormack
www.maniacalextent.com


From grante at visi.com  Wed Nov 17 15:56:40 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 17 Nov 2004 20:56:40 GMT
Subject: don't NaN & infinities hide FP errors
References: <940ee3e8.0411170130.31d247@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.18.01.49.05.537966@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <419bbb08$0$531$a1866201@visi.com>

On 2004-11-18, Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 01:30:33 -0800, kartik wrote:
>
>> Since Python floats are implemented using C doubles, assuming
>> IEEE 754 compliance, certain operations should result in NaN
>> or infinity. Don't such special values hide errors?

No.

>> Would we want our variables to be in such states?

Assuming you're not using the royal we, yes "we" do.

>> I feel it would be better if a floating point division by zero
>> (or other actions that produce NaNs or infinities) throws an
>> exception, just like an integer divide by zero.

What if I don't _want_ an exception?  What if NaN or Infinity
is _the_correct_answer_?  For what I do, most of the time, NaN
or Infinity is exactly what I want.

>> Am I right?
>
> You may think, while dealing with your problems and programs, that NaN is
> an error. 
>
> I may want them, because NaN, Inf, and exceptions are not the same things.

I certainly want them.  I'd be right annoyed if somebody
decided all of a sudden than NaNs are errors.  NaNs are
tremendously useful things, and making them errors would be
like deciding that negative integers are errors since you
obviously can have "minus seven" apples sitting on the table in
front of you.

Let's say you've got a bunch of process control modules. Each
of them takes a set of input values and produces a set of
outputs.

Now let's say one of the inputs fails (no valid value is
available).  You can just shut down the whole refinery, you've
got to try to keep going as best you can.  The easiest way to
do that is to feed a NaN in on the invalid input, and let it
propogate through the network of modules.  The outputs that
don't depend on the invalid input remain valid.  The outputs
that do depend on the invalid input are NaNs.  

At the output end of things you don't have to do all sorts of
logic to figure out which outputs are valid and which ones
aren't -- all you have to do is decide what to do when each
output is a NaN.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I love ROCK 'N
                                  at               ROLL! I memorized the
                               visi.com            all WORDS to "WIPE-OUT"
                                                   in1965!!


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov 19 20:59:41 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:59:41 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org><mailman.6614.1100891946.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<419E6C13.1040508@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <cnm8e3$htp$1@sea.gmane.org>


""Martin v. L?wis"" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message 
news:419E6C13.1040508 at v.loewis.de...
> Wrt. claim 3, Python is *not* prior art, because Python's operator
> is the two keywords "is not", not the single keyword "IsNot".

But, for whatever it is worth, the ref manual *does* label 'is not' as *an* 
operator.  In this context, 'is not' is a compound (key)word with a space 
(rather than a hyphen or neither).  Since English compounds can often be 
written both with and without a space or hyphen, with the choice being a 
matter of taste, the difference between 'IsNot' and 'Is Not' is rather 
trivial

> Paragraph
> [0050] elaborates that the claim extends beyond the literal spelling
> they give (e.g. to "is_not", "isnot" etc.),

And 'is_not' is the CS alternate spelling of 'is not' with ' ' changed to 
'_' (instead of '-') to indicate that the space is connective, forming a 
compound word.  In names, Python also requires, for obvious lexical 
reasons, connective spaces ('_'s).  Recognizing 'is not' as a unit requires 
a special rule; 'is_not' might have been more consistent with the rest of 
Python, but Guido was and is a keywords minimizer.  Without knowing this 
rule, one could easily parse 'a is not b' as 'a is (not b)' like Basic 
does.

To be, this 'patent' is so absurd that I initially had difficulty believing 
to to be real and not a joke.

Terry J. Reedy





From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov 23 14:59:31 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:59:31 GMT
Subject: protocols, inheritance and polymorphism
In-Reply-To: <donn-F6A9D8.11153623112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>
	<Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<YWKod.137814$HA.44609@attbi_s01>
	<donn-F6A9D8.11153623112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <DEMod.451904$D%.379323@attbi_s51>

Donn Cave wrote:
> Steven Bethard wrote:
> ...
>>The point here is that I'm using isinstance here because I *know* there 
>>are objects out there that, unlike Bunch objects, may have 'attributes' 
>>not stored in their __dict__, and I *know* they might get passed to 
>>Bunch.update.  Since I can't appropriately support their use, I want the 
>>user to be notified of this (with the TypeError).
>>
[snip]
> 
> I don't really see that isinstance() was necessary in principle
> here.  Not that it makes any difference to me, but it looks like
> you created this problem by defining these semantics in Bunch
> but failing to assign any identifiable attribute

Yup.  The reason I "needed" isinstance was that my implementation works 
directly with __dict__ instead of creating some __dict__-like attribute 
and writing the appropriate code in __getattr__ and __setattr__ to use 
this __dict__-like attribute instead.  I actually thought about using a 
__dict__-like attribute instead of __dict__ for exactly this reason (so 
that I could just check for the attribute instead of testing 
isinstance), but it seemed like a lot of overhead for not much gain (at 
least, for the intended uses of Bunch -- see the "generic object - 
moving toward PEP" and "generic object implementation" threads.)

Steve


From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Nov 26 15:40:40 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:40:40 -0300
Subject: dictionary initialization
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7C6D@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Caleb Hattingh]
#- > (x not existing yet)
#- > x+=1
#- >
#- > And have x = 1, while in Python you have to do
#- >
#- > (x not existing yet)
#- > x=0
#- > x+=1
#- >
#- > And then have x=1?   Is this the question of debate here?  
#- One line of 
#- > initialisation to specify the type?


[Dan Perl]

#- Yes, 2 lines instead of 1 is an issue.  And it is not the 
#- only example where 
#- the "explicit is better than implicit" principle shows a 
#- downside.  However, 

You're missing a point. Remember that even dynamic typed, Python is strong
typed.

If Python should deal with the user not binding the name to an object, what
the type of that object should be?

Suppose I put:

>>> del x
>>> x *= 5

x should be bound to an object of what type?

- 0 because x initialized to 0 by default and 0*5==0?
- '' because x initialized to '' by default and ''*5==''?
- [] because....

I think this is NOT a problem of explicit/implicit, is just a problem where
Python can not guess what the user wants...

.	Facundo
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From skip at pobox.com  Wed Nov 17 10:04:14 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:04:14 -0600
Subject: Unicode table conversion project for XEmacs folks
Message-ID: <16795.26734.304504.344714@montanaro.dyndns.org>


Passing this along as an FYI.  Perhaps someone here would like to take this
on.

Skip

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Subject: Request for Project
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From speno at net.isc.upenn.edu  Sun Nov 21 10:25:03 2004
From: speno at net.isc.upenn.edu (John P. Speno)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:25:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: thread.error: release unlocked lock
References: <cniqlj$2cqj$1@netnews.upenn.edu>
	<mailman.6568.1100820402.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cnjn63$2rff$1@netnews.upenn.edu>
	<mailman.6665.1101018083.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cnqc0f$4jp7$1@netnews.upenn.edu>

In <mailman.6665.1101018083.5135.python-list at python.org> Tim Peters <tim.peters at gmail.com> writes:

>[John]
>> Unbounded queues with non-blocking get/put.

>[Tim]
>That's odd -- non-blocking put doesn't really make sense with an
>unbounded queue, esp. when only one thread does put().  It will work
>anyway, it's just peculiar.

I'll bring this issue into a bug report but I wanted to clarify on
this one issue.

My worker threads used a bare queue.get() with no arguments which does
block. I mistakenly thought the default for the block argument was False
when, in fact, it defaults to True. Sorry about that. I'll modify your
example code accordingly and start testing this asap.

Take care.


From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Thu Nov 25 04:07:09 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 10:07:09 +0100
Subject: tkinter shell problem
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6760.1101319149.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6760.1101319149.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41a59efd$0$29368$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Philippe C. Martin wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have the following problem:
> 
> I wrote a tkinter shell which on a key return event first evals the input 
> buffer (in a try: except:) and then, in case of except, execs the input 
> buffer.
> 
> 
> I have the problem if the exec fails:
> 
> If I trap it, I do not get the stack dump that I which I would show.

Why? When catching an exception, you can get the exception type, the exception 
itself and the traceback object via the sys.exc_info() function. You can then 
use the traceback module to format the traceback just as Python would print it 
if the exception went to the top-most level.

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Nov 24 02:34:06 2004
From: autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Robson)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 07:34:06 +0000
Subject: Book recommendation
References: <30ictaF2vhlgoU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.24.07.34.05.791770@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 22:21:34 -0500, Madhusudan Singh wrote:

> I am trying to teach myself Python. I have extensive prior programming
> experience in Fortran, a little in C/C++,  Pascal, etc.
> 
> So far, I have been reading online tutorials at www.python.org and a book I
> found at the library - Martin Brown's The Complete Reference Python. Is
> there a standard classic book to learn from that I could buy ?
> 
> Say something like Metcalf and Reid's Fortran 90/95 Explained or Kernighan
> and Ritchie's The C Programming Language.

Hi there Madhusudan :)

There's a couple of brief introductions worth reading ; one is by the
language's creator Guido van Rossum, and the other by a chap called
Swaroop (A byte of Python I think it's called). Both of these are quick
read introduction type things.

A most entertaining and completely backward book is "Dive into Python"
(all these are free downloads but you can buy the latter as a book) which
has the approach where each section starts of with a relatively
complex working chunk of Python code, then pulls it apart and shows you
how all the bits work, and explains the various concepts as you go along.

Once you've done that, if you want some useful bits of coding just to get
the feel of it, try answering some of the Perl or Ruby Quiz-of-the-week
questions (archives are online search for Perl|Ruby quiz of the week).

None of the tasks are more than a page or two of python, but it's a quick
way of getting a feel for the language.

The other thing that's handy to have to hand is the Quick Reference which
is about 20 or so pages and handy for a quick look up.

There are many IDEs and Editors about from the quick and dirty through to
full IDEs (which personally I find too much of a clutter). I personally
like Scite which is the former.

Remember, for i in range(100): print "Murali chucks" :)



From merman at snafu.de  Mon Nov  8 13:32:56 2004
From: merman at snafu.de (T. Kaufmann)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 19:32:56 +0100
Subject: MySQLdb installation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6117.1099931315.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <418f99db$0$175$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<mailman.6117.1099931315.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418fba73$0$161$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

> ... which mentions, among others:
> 
> * Red Hat Linux packages:
>     - mysql-devel to compile
>     - mysql and/or mysql-devel to run

... and what does it mean? I don't understand it.

o-o

Thomas



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Nov 11 17:37:26 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:37:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: permuting letters and fairy tales
References: <67lld8kr76.fsf@aster.homelinux.net>
Message-ID: <loom.20041111T231849-238@post.gmane.org>

Johannes Nix <Johannes.Nix <at> gmx.net> writes:
> Now I have two innocent questions:
> 
> - Is it possible to make it a bit more concise )) ?
> 
> - Can it coerced to run a little bit faster ?
>   (on my oldish, 300 MHz-AMD K6 , run time looks like this
>   for a famous, 2663-word-long fairy tale from the Grimm's brothers:

So, I don't have Numeric, but I believe I've translated your code to the
equivalent numarray code.  I've also written a version of it using only the
standard Python libraries:

------------------------------------------------------------
import sys
import locale
import string
import re
import numarray
import numarray.strings
import numarray.random_array
import random

def f1(file_in, file_out):
    wordsep = re.compile('([^%s])' % string.letters)
    for line in file_in.xreadlines():
        for word in wordsep.split(line):
            if word and word[0] in string.letters:
                word = string.lower(word)
                wlen = len(word)
                if wlen > 3:
                    wa = numarray.strings.array(list(word))
                    perm = numarray.random_array.permutation(wlen-2)
                    wa[1:wlen-1] = numarray.take(wa[1:wlen-1],perm)
                    word = wa.tostring()
            file_out.write('%s' % word)
    file_out.write('\n')

def f2(file_in, file_out):
    word_sep_matcher = re.compile(r'(\W+)')
    for line in file_in:
        for word in word_sep_matcher.split(line):
            if word and word.isalpha():
                word = word.lower()
                if len(word) > 3:
                    inner = list(word[1:-1])
                    random.shuffle(inner)
                    word = '%s%s%s' % (word[0], ''.join(inner), word[-1])
            file_out.write('%s' % word)
    file_out.write('\n')
------------------------------------------------------------

As far as conciceness goes, a couple things of note:
(1) I believe r'([^A-z])' does the same thing as your re
(2) xreadlines is deprecated in Python 2.3
(3) str.isalpha() is probably a good substitute for s[0] in string.letters.  (If
you want to be strict about the translation, you can do s[0].isalpha())
(4) string.lower(word) is deprecated in favor of word.lower()
(5) perhaps Numeric doesn't support this, but I believe you can replace
wa[1:wlen-1] with wa[1:-1]
(6) you can do something much like what your numarray code does by using
random.shuffle


As far as speed goes, here's the timings I got using your email (minus the code)
as input (your code is saved in 'temp.txt'):

>python -m timeit -n 10000 -s "import temp; file_in = file('temp.txt'); file_out
= file('out.txt', 'w')" "temp.f1(file_in, file_out)"
10000 loops, best of 3: 31.6 usec per loop

>python -m timeit -n 10000 -s "import temp; file_in = file('temp.txt'); file_out
= file('out.txt', 'w')" "temp.f2(file_in, file_out)"
10000 loops, best of 3: 8.02 usec per loop

Looks to me like the one without numarray is much quicker, but I can't be sure
that Numeric would behave in the same manner.

> - It's a good example how powerful libraries, like
>   Numeric, make one's life easier. (BTW, why is Numeric 
>   and stuff like take() still not included in the standard
>   Library ? Batteries included, but calculator not ?)

Well, at least in numarray, take is just the functional form of indexing by an
array:

>>> arr = na.arange(20)*2
>>> na.take(arr, na.array([3, 5, 13]))
array([ 6, 10, 26])
>>> arr[na.array([3, 5, 13])]
array([ 6, 10, 26])

While it's true that Python's builtin lists don't support this directly, list
comprehensions make this pretty easy to reproduce:

>>> lst = [2*x for x in range(20)]
>>> [lst[i] for i in [3, 5, 13]]
[6, 10, 26]

> - Perhaps it's useful to protect messages in some
>   regions with not-so-democratic forms of government
>   against automatic scanning by making the message 
>   machine-unreadable, causing some Orwellian Confusion  ?

Unfortunately, this 'encoding scheme' ;) doesn't work in all languages -- what's
the first 'letter' of a two-character word in, say, Mandarin?  ;)

Steve



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 15 16:30:44 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 22:30:44 +0100
Subject: determining the number of output arguments
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6361.1100470915.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cn95k1$bfq$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6371.1100498345.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gnb7hi.1hwbltbftm6c1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Fernando Perez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> suspect that by playing very nasty tricks with sys._getframe(), the dis
> and the inspect modules, you probably _could_ get to this information, at
> least if the caller is NOT a C extension module.  But I'm not even 100%
> sure this works, and it would most certainly the kind of black magic I'm
> sure you are not asking about.  But given the level of expertise here, I
> better cover my ass ;-)

Yep, that's the cookbook recipe Jp was mentioning -- Sami Hangaslammi's
recipe 284742, to be precise.  Yep, it _is_ going into the printed 2nd
edition (which I'm supposed to be working on right now -- deadline
closing in, help, help!-).


Alex


From mauriceling at acm.org  Sun Nov  7 07:00:42 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 23:00:42 +1100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6032.1099794432.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<mailman.5999.1099743679.5135.python-list@python.org>	<418D61D3.3040904@acm.org>
	<mailman.6032.1099794432.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418E0E6A.6010205@acm.org>

Dear Terry,
> 
> Not really. It's an impression you could easily get from several
> books about Python (e.g. O'Reilly's "Learning Python"), which
> make a rather big deal about Python being slow to execute, but
> fast to develop in.
> 
Do you have any idea which part of the book or chapter or passage which 
suggests this? Apparently here appears to be a technical fault in the 
book and Alex (in cc) is one of the technical reviewers of "Learning 
Python" and is trying to fix this...

> The reality is that it isn't really all *that* slow to execute,
> and later versions have gotten quite a bit faster.
> 
> But it remains really fast to develop in. ;-)
> 
> The resistence to the idea really stems from a sense of rivalry
> with Java.  Which is really interesting actually, because it
> wasn't all that long ago that Python was "just a scripting
> language" and Java programmers wouldn't feel threatened by it.
> Now they do, I guess. ;-)
> 
> It's quite possible that Java programmers console themselves
> for all the low-level programming work by thinking the result
> will be faster, without really testing to find out.  Certainly
> Java is going to be faster than Jython (Python running on a
> Java platform).
> 
> And I have certainly written some extremely poorly optimized
> Python programs that positively *crawled*.
> 
> Cheers,
> Terry
> 
> --
> Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
> Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com
> 



From dochtman at cs.vu.nl  Mon Nov  1 06:51:12 2004
From: dochtman at cs.vu.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 12:51:12 +0100
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <10oaojs29dqctc7@news.supernews.com>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de> <clvpa0$7ag$2@star.cs.vu.nl>
	<clvrk0$djr$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<4183f2b0$0$209$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<2uiaqmF2as1ihU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<4184c277$0$265$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<1gmirtb.dymeyujh00iuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4184fa72$0$226$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<10oaojs29dqctc7@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <cm57p7$8pp$1@star.cs.vu.nl>

> Parrot was originally intended to run both Perl 6 and Perl 5. Adding
> Python was an afterthought, and somewhat a consequence of an
> April Fools joke. Some people think it still is.

People have also been working on running PHP on Parrot, a Forth-like 
language is reimplemented on Parrot, and Parrot developers are taking 
Ruby into account as well. I don't know how much of an afterthought 
Python-on-Parrot was, but it's certainly not a minor subject right now.

Regards,

Dirkjan


From ville at spammers.com  Wed Nov  3 08:52:23 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 03 Nov 2004 15:52:23 +0200
Subject: inferred typing
References: <slrncohibr.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <du78y9jqbu0.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Gabriel" == Gabriel Zachmann <zach at cs.uni-bonn.de> writes:

    Gabriel> Just a curious question: Has it ever been considered to
    Gabriel> furnish Python with inferred typing?

Yes - googling for Starkiller and Boo is a good start.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From aaflores at gmail.com  Sat Nov 13 10:54:57 2004
From: aaflores at gmail.com (Alberto)
Date: 13 Nov 2004 07:54:57 -0800
Subject: Advice needed
Message-ID: <1100361297.413616.17890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I was trying to understand the reasons why I should learn Python. More
like a pros/cons about this language. Currently, I use C, C/C++, Java,
Perl, Visual VB and was looking to see the usefulness of Python.  Any
suggestions?



From gdamjan at gmail.com  Mon Nov  8 15:53:54 2004
From: gdamjan at gmail.com (Damjan)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 21:53:54 +0100
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmgcp1$hpk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncong4u.1tk.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmggel$t2o$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <2va4n2F2h8f1tU1@uni-berlin.de>

>> that's not quite true.
>> actually, each platform (wintel, linux, ...) has a pretty well-defined
>> object file format (ELF under unix/linux, for instance).
> 
> I did not talk about binary executable formats, but the memory layout of
> C++ objects. The c++ standard doesn't define where e.g. the vtable of an
> objects virtual method resides - or even if virtual methods have to be
> implemented by a vtable at first place.

There's a C++ ABI standard on Linux now (maybe it covers other Unixish
platforms too). GCC-3.x supports it and also the Intel compiler supports
it. That's how you can now use (link) libraries compiled with some gcc-3.x
compiler to a program compiled with Intel's compilers or vice versa.

Though, some of the early gcc-3.0 compilers may not be 100% C++ ABI
compliant. There were some bugs there.


-- 
damjan


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sun Nov  7 18:29:05 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 18:29:05 -0500
Subject: problem with glutKeyboardUpFunc and glutFullScreen in pyOpenGL
In-Reply-To: <1099865104.2309.2.camel@Zeus>
References: <1099865104.2309.2.camel@Zeus>
Message-ID: <418EAFC1.6080003@rogers.com>

This is caused by the use of FreeGLUT in Fedora Core 2.  FreeGLUT does 
not define the GLUT_XLIB_IMPLEMENTATION constant that PyOpenGL's GLUT 
wrapper uses to determine GLUT version.  As a result PyOpenGL builds for 
a version of GLUT that roughly corresponds to the very first GLUT 
version ever written.

I've checked in changes that work around this in the CVS repository, as 
well as providing wrappers for the FreeGLUT extensions to the GLUT API.  
Should appear in the next PyOpenGL release.

HTH,
Mike

soul wrote:

>I have a problem in pyOpenGL.I'm programing in Linux Fedora Core 2 and I
>  
>
...

>If I use the functions  glutKeyboardUpFunc , I retrieve this error:
>  
>
...

>>NameError: global name 'glutKeyboardUpFunc' is not defined?
>>    
>>
...
 
________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From dieringe at zedat.fu-berlin.de  Mon Nov 22 09:12:38 2004
From: dieringe at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Martin Dieringer)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:12:38 +0100
Subject: split large file by string/regex
References: <v5l872-sd4.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>
	<41A1EF3E.1080409@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <mn8972-0c6.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:

> Martin Dieringer wrote:
>
>> I am trying to split a file by a fixed string.
>> The file is too large to just read it into a string and split this.
>> I could probably use a lexer but there maybe anything more simple?
>> thanks
>> m.
>
> Depends on your definition of "simple", I suppose. The problem with
> *not* using a lexer is that you'd have to examine the file in a
> sequence of overlapping chunks to make sure that a regex could pick up
> all matches. For me that would be more complex than using a lexer,
> given the excellent range of modules such as SPARK and PLY, to mention
> but two.
>

yes lexing would be the simplest, but PLY also can't read from streams
and it looks to me (from the examples) as if it's the same with SPARK.
I wonder why something like this is not in any lib.
Is there any known lexer that can do this?
I don't have to parse, just write the junks to separate files.
I really hate doing that sequence thing...

m.


From roland at catalogix.se  Tue Nov 30 05:23:17 2004
From: roland at catalogix.se (Roland Hedberg)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:23:17 +0100
Subject: DB problem while trying to use Shelve
Message-ID: <D9FE35F9-42B9-11D9-A771-000D932F504E@catalogix.se>

Hi!

Want to use shelve in a program I'm writing, but I encounter a problem.

This is the tail of the traceback I get back:

   File "/sw/lib/python2.3/shelve.py", line 231, in open
     return DbfilenameShelf(filename, flag, protocol, writeback, binary)
   File "/sw/lib/python2.3/shelve.py", line 212, in __init__
     Shelf.__init__(self, anydbm.open(filename, flag), protocol, 
writeback, binary)
   File "/sw/lib/python2.3/anydbm.py", line 83, in open
     return mod.open(file, flag, mode)
   File "/sw/lib/python2.3/dbhash.py", line 16, in open
     return bsddb.hashopen(file, flag, mode)
   File "/sw/lib/python2.3/bsddb/__init__.py", line 186, in hashopen
     d.set_flags(hflags)
bsddb._db.DBInvalidArgError: (22, 'Invalid argument')
Illegal instruction

This is on a MacOSX machine with python 2.3.3 and db 4.2

What's going on ?

And what can I do about it ?

-- Roland
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From mpapec at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 21 17:14:07 2004
From: mpapec at yahoo.com (Matija Papec)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:14:07 +0100
Subject: ftplib callbacks
References: <u0d1q0pqpr4vk9jg499mpnk2idf6ep8h8m@4ax.com>
	<Hx7od.1766$QR.203@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <5742q05ab7a0c5vejqaap917j6lcfqlaha@4ax.com>

X-Ftn-To: Steve Holden 

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>The callback is called each time the FTP client softwrae has something 
>to deal with. Try (untested):
>
>lines = []
>
>def myfilter(line):
>     global lines
>     lines.append(line)
>
>with the remainder of your code unchanged. The lines list will then 
>contain a list of all lines.

Tnx, I did

    def nlst2(self, *args):
        cmd = 'LIST'
        for arg in args:
            cmd = cmd + (' ' + arg)
        files = []
        self.retrlines(cmd, files.append)
        return files

and now I just need to parse it. :)

>The problem with your current callback is that its return value is 
>ignored by the FTP module that calls it.

Yes, unfortunately even "def retrlines" returns something uninteresting.



-- 
Matija


From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Sun Nov 14 13:56:20 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:56:20 +0100
Subject: .pyc files...
In-Reply-To: <1gn98lj.1obb1shw8nfr9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <E1CTDp7-00050j-00@galvatron.kickingdragon.com>
	<mailman.6343.1100420001.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1100420230.124422.169890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<2vp91pF2obee4U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1gn98lj.1obb1shw8nfr9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2vpo2mF2llh63U1@uni-berlin.de>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> wrote:
> 
>> >> alias cleanpy="find . -name '*.pyc' -exec rm {} ';'"
>> > or with backticks:  rm -rf `find . -name '*.pyc'`
>> 
>> Beware of spaces in filenames!
> 
> Yeah, but it's pretty unlikely, though not impossible, to have a .pyc
> file, specifically, with spaces in the name; that module would be
> somewhat hard to use from Python in normal ways.

Right; the file name will not contain spaces, but directory names could
without problems. Anyway, it is not advisable to use such a pattern.
Alternatives have been pointed out.

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From kayschluehr at gmx.de  Mon Nov  8 16:28:56 2004
From: kayschluehr at gmx.de (Kay Schluehr)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 22:28:56 +0100
Subject: Python OS
Message-ID: <418FE518.6000306@gmx.de>

>/ Richard Blackwood wrote:
/
> What I do not quite understand is the overall assertion that low-level 
> aspects of OS design can not be simulated.  Interrupts were much 
> discussed, but I ask: can one not simulate interrupts?  It seems absurd 
> to me that this would be impossible.  

This is indeed trivial. It can be reduced to the statement that the Python language 
is Turing-complete. What remains unclear in this discussion is the perspective 
on "Python". Somewhere we have to leave the sim in order to run a concrete
system. The different high level representations of the concept "hardware interrupt" 
have to be projected onto one and only one that is feasible by the machine. 
If I interpret Your concerns correctly, You obtain a greater flexibility on the 
sim-level, which should influence again the "real" OS machine code? The model of this 
relationship is Psyco in the PyPy realm: being itself a Python program, that generates 
machine code on the fly that drives again the interpreter, that runs Psyco. 
But this tangled hierarchy in which OS and Python-Interpreter drive each other may
be my own fantasy, that has nothing to do with Your "prototyping" intention
in the closer sense ... ?

Regards 
       Kay

 





From exarkun at divmod.com  Thu Nov  4 09:43:48 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 14:43:48 GMT
Subject: seg fault
In-Reply-To: <1099577167.418a374fbc1fc@www-mail.usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <20041104144348.23443.1514439313.divmod.quotient.1361@ohm>

On Fri,  5 Nov 2004 01:06:07 +1100, Ajay <abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au> wrote:
>hi!
> 
> i have some code with a gui that does some processing in another thread,
> say t2.
> when t2 needs to display something on the gui, it generates an event (which
> i have binded earlier). the code runs fine on windows but segfaults on
> linux.
> the point where it segfaults is when it generates the event.
> 
> any ideas why?
> 

  You're calling Tk functions in a non-main thread.  This isn't allowed.  I see that you are creating a Queue, which is a good first step towards fixing this problem, but then it isn't used anywhere.

  Instead of the last line of:

> 
> 	def answerMessage(self, sub, msg, insec, rock):
> 		print msg
> 		self.reply = msg.get("SMSMessage")
> 		dest = msg.get("SMSDestination")
> 		if dest == self.phnumber:
> 			self.frame.event_generate('<<reply>>', when='tail')

  You may want something like:

    func = self.frame.event_generate
    args = ('<<reply>>',)
    kwargs = {'when': 'tail'}
    self.q.put((func, args, kwargs))

  This doesn't call the Tk function, but instead adds enough information to call it to the Queue instance.  The main thread should then poll the Queue instance and call whatever it finds there:

    def checkQueue(self):
        # Reschedule this call
        self.frame.after_idle(self.checkQueue)

        while not self.q.empty():
            func, args, kwargs = self.q.get()
            func(*args, **kwargs)

  Hope this helps,

  Jp


From mj.clift at virgin.net  Sun Nov 14 07:45:25 2004
From: mj.clift at virgin.net (Malcolm Clift)
Date: 14 Nov 2004 04:45:25 -0800
Subject: range and wx co - ords
References: <a86fb13f.0411081407.3a382a6b@posting.google.com>
	<a86fb13f.0411091707.11be7433@posting.google.com>
	<4191dc09.80425295@news.oz.net>
	<a86fb13f.0411100936.7ce01770@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a86fb13f.0411140445.40b2d44c@posting.google.com>

Hi Bengt,

I thought that I would be able to work out how to do this, but as I'm
new to python it's harder than I thought...

Could you tell me how I would get the text to flow on to a new page?

Thanks,

Malcolm


From terti at mighty.co.za  Tue Nov 16 05:58:14 2004
From: terti at mighty.co.za (tertius)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:58:14 +0200
Subject: round() to nearest .05 ?
In-Reply-To: <i7KdnYIX-5yQigTcRVn-gg@is.co.za>
References: <i7KdnYIX-5yQigTcRVn-gg@is.co.za>
Message-ID: <dMydnaz6YOClQATcRVn-sg@is.co.za>

tertius wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to round my float total to the nearest .05 cents.
> 
> 12.01    should produce 12.00
>  0.14    should produce 0.10
>  2.28          "        2.25
> 703.81         "        703.80
> 
> "%.02f"%100.0099 produces 100.01 (which I know is right)
> No combination of round and/or "%.02f" works for me.
> 
> What's the best way to get there? Should I write a function to manage my 
> rounding or is there a simpler/better way?
> 
> TIA
> T

Thanks for all the help!
I meant nearest towards zero.

chrs
T


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Nov 16 02:43:55 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:43:55 -0800
Subject: determining the number of output arguments
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <20041115231537.F95B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:44:06 -0800, Josiah Carlson wrote:
> >> I think it would be better to have a way to say 'and all the rest'.
> >> Lacking that, some automated way to count how many items are being
> >> unpacked on the LHS is probably second-best.
> > 
> > Is it worth a keyword, or would a sys.getframe()/bytecode hack be
> > sufficient?
> 
> Who needs a keyword?
> 
> a, b, *c = [1, 2, 3, 4]
> a, b, *c = [1, 2]


I'll post the same thing that was posted by James Knight on python-dev
about this precise syntax...


James Knight wrote:
> Two threads on the topic, with rejections by Guido:
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/030349.html
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-August/046684.html
> 
> Guido's rejection from 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-August/046794.html:
> > For the record, let me just say that I'm -1 on adding this feature
> > now.  It's only a minor convenience while it's a fairly big change to
> > the parser and code generator, but most of all, Python's growth needs
> > to be reduced.  If we were to add every "nice" feature that was
> > invented (or present in other languages), Python would lose one of its
> > main charms, which is that it is really a rather simple language that
> > can be learned and put to production quickly.
> >
> > So while I appreciate the idea (which BTW has been proposed before) I
> > think it's not worth adding now, and if you don't hear from me again
> > on this topic it's because I haven't changed my mind...


Guido hasn't updated his stance, so don't hold your breath.

 - Josiah



From rune.hansen at scanmine.com  Mon Nov 15 08:14:30 2004
From: rune.hansen at scanmine.com (roderik)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 14:14:30 +0100
Subject: psycopg supress output
Message-ID: <ZY1md.16791$Km6.188698@news4.e.nsc.no>

How do I supress the output generated from each psycopg command:

 >>> import psycopg
initpsycopg: initializing psycopg 1.99.10
typecast_init: initializing NUMBER
.
[removed 20 lines]
.
microprotocols_add: cast 0x46dd20 for (bool, ?)
initpsycopg: module initialization complete
 >>>

regards

/rune


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Sat Nov 20 23:31:39 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 23:31:39 -0500
Subject: don't NaN & infinities hide FP errors
In-Reply-To: <aMTnd.3355456$yk.521301@news.easynews.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0411170130.31d247@posting.google.com>
	<cnf963$ioc$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<mailman.6482.1100699355.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<aMTnd.3355456$yk.521301@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <1f7befae04112020316e232c61@mail.gmail.com>

[Jive]
> I kind of like the various flavors of NaN.  I have on occasion written
> numerical code that exploits them.  But seeing as how Python aspires
> to some level of cross-platform portability, it really should throw
> exceptions rather than return NaN's, Inf's, and the lot.  I am surprised
> that it doesn't always do that.

Python is written to the C89 standard.  That standard says nothing
about NaNs, infs, signed zeroes, or subnormals, and says little about
exceptional numeric conditions.  C99 goes on to promise almost nothing
about exceptional conditions in libm functions; it says a lot about
754 fp semantics, but leaves 754 conformance optional.  As a result,
there's no consistency across vendor C compilers or runtimes wrt these
gimmicks, neither in basic arithmetic nor in libm behavior.

If someone wants to contribute portable C89 code to get at all that
stuff in all cases, then (a) fine; (b) they wouldn't be the first to
try it; and (c) they would be the first not to give up <wink>.

The implementation of the new decimal module does arithmetic entirely
via Python-coded emulation, so all its behavior is under our control. 
As a result, it fully conforms, on all platforms, to the proposed IBM
standard for decimal arithmetic, including the IEEE 854 subset wrt
exceptional semantics, values (infs, NaNs, etc), status flags, and
trap-enable flags.  Also as a result, it may run about 100x slower
than your binary fp HW.


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Nov 18 19:07:34 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 19:07:34 -0500
Subject: Exponential Notation and integers
In-Reply-To: <Du-dncB7_qqGqADcRVn-tg@speakeasy.net>
References: <mailman.6569.1100821388.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Du-dncB7_qqGqADcRVn-tg@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <cnjdj2$qeh$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Timothy Fitz wrote:
>> Why are all numberical literals in exponential notation floats? To me
>> it is counter-intuitive for 1e3 to behave so fundamentally different
>> from 1000.
> 
> Probably primarily by convention.  Most language use computerized 
> scientific notation to represent floating point numbers, not integers. 
> It makes sense, after all:  should 1.344e3 be an int, but 1.344e2 be a 
> float?

No, naturally 1.344e2 is the integer 134.  <wink>


Maybe something like this would help the OP:

 >>> def number(x):
...    return int(float(x))
...
 >>> MYCONSTANT = number('1.344e3')
 >>> print MYCONSTANT
1344

-Peter


From jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 10 13:51:23 2004
From: jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 10:51:23 -0800
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>	<c718a6cf.0411061137.683823ec@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6022.1099784038.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c718a6cf.0411101051.3c8935fd@posting.google.com>

Maurice LING <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.6022.1099784038.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> > 
> > dude that "comparision" from twistedmatrix you refrence is ANCIENT!!!
> 
> I am wondering the impact when IBM decided that the base memory to not 
> exceed 64kb, in the late 1960s...
> 
> I suppose more experienced people in this list can agree that certain 
> decisions made can be almost an edict. So, there is a re-building 
> process every now and then, hopefully to by-pass such edicts. Python 
> itself is already such an example.
> 
> > 
> > it is comparing versions that are YEARS out of date and use!
> 
> Are the codebase of Python 1.5.2 and Java 1.1 totally replaced and 
> deprecated?

yes it has, in both cases : proof again that you don't understand
enough to comprehend why your question is irrelevant, and that you
can't understand the answer as such.

you can't compare something from so many years ago to each other and
then EXTRAPOLATE the results to NOW.

It would be like comparing a 1965 Mustang to a 1965 Corvette and then
coming to the conclusion that you could EXTRAPLATE those results to
compare the 2005 models. Just completely lacking in any understanding
of scientific theory.

> Lisp compiler is the 1st compiler to be created (according to the 
> Red-Dragon book, I think) and almost all others are created by 
> bootstrapping to LISP compiler. What are the implications of design 
> decisions made in LISP compiler then affecting our compilers today? I 
> don't know. I repeat myself, I DO NOT KNOW.
> 
> > 
> > you are just trolling or your don't know enough to understand the
> > answer to your question which is way to vague to be answered, as there
> > is no real correct answer.
> 
> Certainly I do not have 15 PhDs in computer science or computating 
> mathematics...... I suppose there are some syntax error in your 
> statement to allow me to parse it completely. "too vague", not "to vague".

an this just proves that YOU are irrelvant also, go troll somewhere
else. PLONK

> Thanks
> maurice


From jerf at jerf.org  Mon Nov 29 06:24:56 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 06:24:56 -0500
Subject: The use of :
References: <89cc6e1f.0411251858.40b6bbc7@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.26.08.33.40.219098@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<89cc6e1f.0411260953.4b6b98e7@posting.google.com>
	<zyUpd.6$d74.2@read3.inet.fi>
	<41aa1abb$0$25542$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<30ukhmF357ptdU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<Avpqd.55491$Ni.1918466@twister1.libero.it>
	<pan.2004.11.29.05.11.43.180223@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6859.1101676234.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.29.06.12.15.87220@jerf.org>
	<30verqF35jijsU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<87u0r95qxx.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.29.11.24.55.170833@jerf.org>

A two-fer.

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:28:42 +0800, Isaac To wrote:

>>>>>> "Greg" == Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> writes:
> 
>     >> The only punctuation you *need* is whitespace. See Forth
> 
>     Greg> You don't even need that... see FORTRAN. :-)

Well, I for one don't like reading large programs with no line feeds :-)

> And you don't need everything else either... see this.
> 
>                  http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/

I'm pretty sure if you remove all the whitespace and you remove all the
non-whitespace that you have indeed gotten a little too minimal :-)


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov 16 18:38:14 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:38:14 -0700
Subject: inserting bracketings into a string
Message-ID: <d11dcfba04111615385c367f0c@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to insert some bracketings in a string based on a set of
labels and associated start and end indices.  For example, I'd like to
do something like:

>>> text = 'abcde fgh ijklmnop qrstu vw xyz'
>>> spans = [('A', 0, 9), ('B', 6, 9), ('C', 25, 31)]
>>> insert_bracketings(text, spans)
'[A abcde [B fgh]] ijklmnop qrstu [C vw xyz]'

My current implementation looks like:

>>> def insert_bracketings(text, spans):
... 	starts = [start for _, start, _ in spans]
... 	ends = [end for _, _, end in spans]
... 	indices = sorted(set(starts + ends))
... 	splits = [(text[start:end], start, end)
... 	          for start, end in zip([None] + indices, indices + [None])]
... 	start_map, end_map = {}, {}
... 	for label, start, end in spans:
... 		start_map.setdefault(start, []).append('[%s ' % label)
... 		end_map.setdefault(end, []).append(']')
... 	result = []	
... 	for string, start, end in splits:
... 		if start in start_map:
... 			result.extend(start_map[start])
... 		result.append(string)
... 		if end in end_map:
... 			result.extend(end_map[end])
... 	return ''.join(result)
... 

but it seems like there ought to be an easier way.  Can anyone help me?

Thanks in advance,

Steve
-- 
When you're being strangled, everything you do is anaerobic exercise!
        --- Adam Olshefsky


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Thu Nov  4 14:34:00 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:34:00 -0800
Subject: Python extension compatibility
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5913.1099582996.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5913.1099582996.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418a88f5$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Philippe C. Martin wrote:
> Since pycsc does not use any brand new Python functionality, are the binaries 
> be compatible with earlier versions of Python ? down to which ?
Binaries are compatible down to major.minor versions.
That is 2.3.4 works with 2.3.1 and so on.  Nothing you build with 2.4
will work (pass the initial setup test) across major.minor versions.

In addition to Python sometimes making incompatible changes, Microsoft
changes the runtime library interface (and in some cases even the C
function call interface for compiled code) for each version of their
compiler.  Since python 2.3 down (to at least 2.1) uses VC 6, your 2.4
stuff (compiled with 7.1) wouldn't work even if Python didn't try to
prevent you.

You haven't specified what version of Windows you are using, nor what
version of gcc you tried.  I get no crash running gcc 3.2.3's pexports
from on winscard.dll on Win2K Pro SP 5.  I can use that gcc with 2.3
to build extensions.  If you need help either getting that to work, or
simply want an email of the pexports output, drop me an e-mail to let
me know.

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From gaool at caramail.com  Mon Nov 22 10:05:03 2004
From: gaool at caramail.com (gaool)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 07:05:03 -0800
Subject: Buffer problem on SunOS
Message-ID: <b012e8e5.0411220705.a870a66@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I wrote a python script (python 2.3.3) to send some commands to a
programm and to show on the screen the responses of this programm. I
use "Pipedream.py" module in my script to speak with the programm
(under unix system, it uses fdopen() to create a pipe and to send the
specified string. fdopen has a buffer size argument).So I can specify
a buffer size when I send a command with the pipedream module.

On windows it works but on SunOS I have a buffer problem (may be it
would be te same on other unix system...). I don't see the response of
my program before the buffer (which buffer?) is full.

I tried to put differents values for the buffer size argument of the
Pipedream object:
0 (which means unbuffered), 1 (line buffered), and other values (which
create a buffer with the size of the specified value).

But it's always the same thing: if the responses of the program are
short, nothing append. I have to send a lot of commands to full the
buffer. And then I can see all the responses of the commands I send
before and the last response of the last send command.

If the responses of the send command are big, it fill the buffer and I
can see as much lines of the response as the buffer size. And I don't
see the rest of my response.

Apparently, it doesn't depend on the buffer size argument of Pipedream
module.

In fact, it seems that there is a SunOS buffer but I don't know its
size and what I have to do to set it or to delete it.

If you have any idea...

Best regards.


From 1cdq3arii001 at sneakemail.com  Sun Nov 21 08:11:27 2004
From: 1cdq3arii001 at sneakemail.com (Tomas)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 14:11:27 +0100
Subject: Looking for a good interactive shell
Message-ID: <cnq463$19n9$1@news.uit.no>

Hi!

I'm looking for a replacement for the standard interactive python shell. So 
far I've tried IPython and PyCrust. I liked both, but I'm not 100% happy 
with any of them. My main complaint about IPython is its missing support for 
multiline editing. To do multiline editing, it has to start an external 
editor, but then I lose all the nice features like autocompletion.

PyCrust supports multiline editing, but the autocompletion is not as good as 
in IPython. It also lacks many of IPython's advanced features, like 
pdb-integration, magic commands and custom macros.

Does anyone know of any other interactive python shells with good code 
completion and multiline editing?

-Tomas 




From djdennie69 at hotmail.com  Sat Nov  6 07:04:07 2004
From: djdennie69 at hotmail.com (Dennis Hotson)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 23:04:07 +1100
Subject: Add a file to a compressed tarfile
References: <pan.2004.11.05.13.52.18.538666@hotmail.com>
	<cmg85n$qg2$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
	<20041105101135.F83C.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5995.1099737571.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.06.12.04.07.475273@hotmail.com>


Thanks Heiko, Thats really interesting..

To tell you the truth though, I'm not that familiar with the structure of
tar or gzip files. I've got a much better idea of how it works now though.
:D

I managed to get my function working... although it decompresses
everything and then compresses it back... Not the best, but good enough I
think.

Speed isn't a huge issue in my case anyway because this is for a web app
I'm writing... It's a directory tree which allows people to download and
upload files into/from directories as well as compressed archives.

Anyway.. thanks a lot for your help. I really appreciate it. Cheers mate!
:)


From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 28 13:05:01 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 13:05:01 -0500
Subject: [ANN] rpncalc-1.0 RPN Calculator For Python
In-Reply-To: <TOnqd.61281$ye4.42153@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>
References: <mailman.6851.1101655836.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>
	<41a9fd4e$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<TOnqd.61281$ye4.42153@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <41aa11ef$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>

Raymond L. Buvel wrote:
> Kent Johnson wrote:
>> The .tar.gz file seems to be corrupt, opening it with WinZip it 
>> uncompresses the .gz then I get "Error reading header after processing 
>> 0 entries."
> 
> 
> This is a problem I have encountered with WinZip before.  The compressed 
> tar file was created with Python's tarfile module with the 'w:gz' mode. 
>  The resulting file works fine with a number of archive packages under 
> Linux and with the tar command in the MKS toolkit under Windows.
> 
> If I get around to it, I may make a .zip file available for Windows. 
> Until then, I suggest you use Python's tarfile module or something other 
> than WinZip to read it on a Windows platform.

Thanks for the tip. I was able to uncompress it using tarfile.

Kent


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  6 06:10:47 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 12:10:47 +0100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <418C7DCB.60502@acm.org>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<418C7DCB.60502@acm.org>
Message-ID: <82C46454-2FE4-11D9-8959-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>


On 2004 Nov 06, at 08:31, Maurice LING wrote:
    ...
> 1. it is a disk intensive I/O operation.
> 2. users delay is not in the equation (there is no user input)
> 3. I am not interested in the amount of time needed to develop it. But 
> only interested execution speed.

OK, could you provide a simple toy example that meets these conditions 
-- does lot of identical disk-intensive I/O "in batch" -- and the 
execution speed measured (and on what platform) for what Python and 
Java implementations, please?

For example, taking a trivial Copy.java from somewhere on the net:

import java.io.*;

public class Copy {
     public static void main(String[] args) throws IOException {
         File inputFile = new File("/usr/share/dict/web2");
         File outputFile = new File("/tmp/acopy");

         FileReader in = new FileReader(inputFile);
         FileWriter out = new FileWriter(outputFile);
         int c;

         while ((c = in.read()) != -1)
            out.write(c);

         in.close();
         out.close();
     }
}

and I observe (on an iBook 800, MacOSX 10.3.5):

kallisti:~ alex$ java -version
java version "1.4.2_05"
Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.4.2_05-141.3)
Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.4.2-38, mixed mode)

-r--r--r--  1 root  wheel  2486825 12 Sep  2003 /usr/share/dict/web2

kallisti:~ alex$ time java Copy

real    0m7.058s
user    0m5.820s
sys     0m0.390s

versus:

kallisti:~ alex$ time python2.4 Copy.py

real    0m0.296s
user    0m0.080s
sys     0m0.170s

with Python 2.4 beta 1 for the roughly equivalent:

inputFile = file("/usr/share/dict/web2", 'r')
outputFile = file("/tmp/acopy", 'w')

outputFile.write(inputFile.read())

inputFile.close()
outputFile.close()

which isn't all that far from highly optimized system commands:

kallisti:~ alex$ time cp /usr/share/dict/web2 /tmp/acopy

real    0m0.167s
user    0m0.000s
sys     0m0.040s

kallisti:~ alex$ time cat /usr/share/dict/web2 >/tmp/acopy

real    0m0.149s
user    0m0.000s
sys     0m0.090s


I'm sure the Java version can be optimized easily, too -- I just 
grabbed the first thing I saw off the net.  But surely this example 
doesn't point to any big performance issue with Python disk I/O wrt 
Java.  So, unless you post concrete examples yourself, the smallest the 
better, it's going to be pretty difficult to understand where your 
doubts are coming from!


Alex



From andreas.lobinger at netsurf.de  Wed Nov 17 09:52:22 2004
From: andreas.lobinger at netsurf.de (Andreas Lobinger)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:52:22 +0100
Subject: Newbie:  Python & ADFGVX Cipher Cracking?
In-Reply-To: <4mJmd.1242$Tq6.565@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <4mJmd.1242$Tq6.565@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <cnfoj7$fpq$1@news.mch.sbs.de>

Aloha,

Byron wrote:
> I am working on building a program that cracks "ADFGVX" ciphers. 
> However, I have run into a minor problem, which has to do with figuring 
> out all of the possible character re-arrangement combinations.  sible ways:

> Is there a python function in which I can sent a string of characters to 
> -- and it will provide me with a list of all possible combinations 
> available?

I thought i had encountered something like that in random or so, but
in fact a working solution is used as an _example_ in refman 2.1.8.

def perm(l):
         # Compute the list of all permutations of l
     if len(l) <= 1:
                   return [l]
     r = []
     for i in range(len(l)):
              s = l[:i] + l[i+1:]
              p = perm(s)
              for x in p:
               r.append(l[i:i+1] + x)
     return r

lobinger at biscuit: python
Python 2.2.2 (#3, Apr 10 2003, 17:06:52)
[GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on sunos5
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import perm
 >>> perm.perm('ABC')
['ABC', 'ACB', 'BAC', 'BCA', 'CAB', 'CBA']
 >>>

Wishing a happy day
		LOBI


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Nov  6 12:22:16 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 09:22:16 -0800
Subject: Add a file to a compressed tarfile
In-Reply-To: <200411061139.18926.heikowu@ceosg.de>
References: <20041105101135.F83C.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<200411061139.18926.heikowu@ceosg.de>
Message-ID: <20041106084313.F84E.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Heiko Wundram <heikowu at ceosg.de> wrote:
> 
> Am Freitag, 5. November 2004 19:19 schrieb Josiah Carlson:
> > I am not aware of any such method.  I am fairly certain gzip (and the
> > associated zlib) does the following:
> >
> > while bytes remaining:
> >     reset/initialize state
> >     while state is not crappy and bytes remaining:
> >         compress portion of remaining bytes
> >         update state
> >
> > Even if one could discover the last reset/initialization of state, one
> > would still need to decompress the data from then on in order to
> > discover the two empty blocks.
> 
> This is not entirely true... There is a full flush which is done every n bytes 
> (n > 100000 bytes, IIRC), and can also be forced by the programmer. In case 
> you do a full flush, the block which you read is complete as is up till the 
> point you did the flush.

[snip explanation]

Thank you for the great information!

So it seems that one would still need to do the following in order to
get tgz appending done:

1. Find the last compressed section of the tar file.
2. Invert the checksum (CRC32 is easy) to the end of the usable tarfile.
3. Take note and adjust the size provided in the gzip footer.
4. Seek to the end of the usable tarfile.
5. Write a Z_FULL_FLUSH to start on a new block.
6. Write the new compressed data, and make sure you keep track of the
checksum (either by injecting it into zlib and/or gzip some way, or
manually computing it).
7. Write a Z_FINISH, update/write the checksum and and size trailers.


All in all, it doesn't look too hard.  I think such a thing could be
done in an afternoon, and would be a truely nifty addition to the Python
standard library.

BZip2 on the other hand...looks to be nice because of the block
structure, but each block is huffman coded, so it may not be possible to
discover the final block very easily (also the file format isn't leaping
out at me from the BZip2 docs).

 - Josiah



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 13:34:10 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:34:10 GMT
Subject: protocols, inheritance and polymorphism
In-Reply-To: <donn-6E03C2.09242224112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>
	<Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<YWKod.137814$HA.44609@attbi_s01>
	<donn-F6A9D8.11153623112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<tqadnT2kAIXJEj7cRVn-hA@rogers.com>
	<donn-F39B72.13183123112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<mqedndyH_YCYUT7cRVn-uQ@rogers.com>
	<donn-D778C1.17100223112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<786dnYZkrq-ieT7cRVn-tw@rogers.com> <1101273995.954137@yasure>
	<s4qdnUDCJoJ9vjncRVn-hA@rogers.com>
	<donn-6E03C2.09242224112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <Cu4pd.455706$D%.51634@attbi_s51>

Donn Cave wrote:
> I don't have any beef with multiple inheritance, in fact the
> notion of "mix-in" classes might have some potential to be the
> basis for a more sound approach to OO.

The people that have a beef with multiple inheritance have it because 
multiple inheritance can sometimes break encapsulation by forcing the 
designer of a class to be aware of changes in the inheritance chain far 
above its parents (even when no methods/attributes are added by the 
change).  A classic reference:

Snyder, Alan. "Encapsulation and Inheritance in Object-Oriented 
Programming Languages"
http://www-plan.cs.colorado.edu/diwan/class-papers/snyder.pdf

Python tries to combat some of these problems with a good method 
resolution order:

http://www.python.org/2.3/mro.html

I don't make enough use of multiple inheritance to ever have run into 
these kinds of problems, but the literature in this area is enormous...

Steve


From mwm at mired.org  Thu Nov 18 22:53:55 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:53:55 -0600
Subject: distutils setup.cfg question.
Message-ID: <x7ekiqlcj0.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Ok, I give up. I searched the CVS code, and can't find the place that
turns an include_dirs option in setup.cfg into a list of
directories. The reason I was looking for it is that I can't figure
out how to make include_dirs include multiple directories from
setup.cfg. Everything I try winds up putting
-I<contents_of_include_dirs>. I couldn't even find the place where the
string value that is returned by ConfigParser is enclosed in a list.

Help?

        Thankx,
        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Nov 30 02:58:30 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 23:58:30 -0800
Subject: python API wrapper for C++ API
In-Reply-To: <7A977E70F2DA7446B6F631A8A66CF18F01754C41@deep.cadtech>
References: <7A977E70F2DA7446B6F631A8A66CF18F01754C41@deep.cadtech>
Message-ID: <20041129235423.FA65.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


"Mark Doberenz" <mark.doberenz at righthemisphere.com> wrote:
> I'm fairly new at Python, but I've got a project I really want to do.
>  
> I'm working with a real-time 3D program called Deep Creator, and it has
> a C++ API written for it.  I'm wondering what it would take to create a
> Python wrapper that would allow me to write Python programs that would
> call the C++ API.
>  
> The main issue I'm running into is that I need to create a DLL that I
> load as a plugin into Deep Creator.  I then will specify a python
> program inside Deep Creator that I want to run, and the DLL plugin will
> be the link between the python program and Deep Creator.
>  
> I'd really appreciate any ideas or issues that people see with this set
> up.

The first thing you need to decide is whether you want to call C++ from
Python, Python from C++, both, or whether you want to embed a Python
interpreter inside your application.

The standard places to look for this kind of thing are ctypes, SWIG, and
Boost.Python.

 - Josiah



From mwm at mired.org  Fri Nov 12 12:37:25 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:37:25 -0600
Subject: crc32 to be used as hash
References: <slrncp7e3j.bdf.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<mailman.6276.1100202639.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncp7skp.cvc.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<mailman.6296.1100220697.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncp8p6v.est.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <x7hdnvnf3e.fsf@guru.mired.org>

wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca (Weiguang Shi) writes:

> It's good to know. According to Jain's paper, CRC32 _is_ relatively
> bit-wise random (again, for the network workload). That's the property
> I'm after.

Since no one else has mentioned it - have you considered using md5,
which is also built into Python?

      <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From info at armand.it  Tue Nov 23 11:06:31 2004
From: info at armand.it (Armand Federico - INFO)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:06:31 +0100
Subject: HTMLgen error
Message-ID: <cnvnbp$l58$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>

I received an error when i try htmlgen on winxp, apapche, mysql, mod_python


THIS IS THE ERROR

Mod_python error: "PythonHandler mod_python.publisher"
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON~1\lib\site-packages\mod_python\apache.py", line
193, in Dispatch
    result = object(req)
File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON~1\lib\site-packages\mod_python\publisher.py", line
171, in handler
    result = apply(object, (), args)
File "c:/programmi/apache/pub\test-pub.py", line 10, in pippo
    doc = HTMLgen.BasicDocument(title=title)

NameError: global name 'HTMLgen' is not defined


THIS IS THE CODE

""" Publisher example """

import HTMLgen
def pippo(req) :
     title = "try title"
     doc = HTMLgen.BasicDocument(title=title)
     doc.append(HTMLgen.Center(HTMLgen.Heading(1, title)))
     doc.append(HTMLgen.Paragraph(
          """(Try paragraph, Try paragraph, Try paragraph, Try paragraph,
Try paragraph, Try paragraph, Try paragraph, Try paragraph, Try paragraph,
Try paragraph, Try paragraph, Try paragraph, Try paragraph, Try paragraph,
Try paragraph, Try paragraph, Try paragraph, Try paragraph, Try
paragraph.)"""))

return doc




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Nov 19 03:45:37 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 09:45:37 +0100
Subject: Using alternative PyObject* in dynamically created classes
Message-ID: <tyfbrdu1b2m.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

I would like some of my _dynamically_ created new-style classes to
have instances which are not represented by the standard PyObject, but
one which has an extra void* slot which I want to use for my nefarious
purposes, in extension functions. The pointer need not be initialized
(for now) I just want it to be there in case I want to stuff something
in there later on in the run.

What is the laziest way of achieving this?

As far as I can tell, PyTypeObject (and its allocators, deallocators,
methods in general) only refer to the type of the instance struct via
tp_basicsize (where only the struct's size is held). 

So my first attempt merely resets tp_basicsize to the size of my
alternative instance struct, as soon as the class is created. This
goes horribly wrong when instances of the class are deallocated, but I
can't see why.

Where else must I provide information about the instance struct type ?


[I will be away for a few days, from a few hours from now; please
don't take a long response time as a sign of rudeness.]


From mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net  Fri Nov 19 14:35:42 2004
From: mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet at no.spam.net (Jean Brouwers)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:35:42 GMT
Subject: Question about thread
References: <mailman.6598.1100877060.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1100878186.26229@eng-ser6>
Message-ID: <191120041136578497%mrjean1ATcomcastDOTnet@no.spam.net>


Look at the example in the asyncore module in the standard Python
library.

<http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-asyncore.html>


/Jean Brouwers
ProphICy Semiconductor, Inc.

 
In article <1100878186.26229 at eng-ser6>, Valkyrie <valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk>
wrote:

> Thanks for your suggestion :) But I would like to have a more standard
> solution,
> I still don't know how to do so im mind...
> 
> 
> Jp Calderone wrote:
> > On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:50:17 +0800, Valkyrie <valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk> wrote:
> > 
> >>To be more precise, what I want to do is to have a threaded program to
> >>handle
> >>some jobs concurrently (while those jobs are fetching  information from the
> >>Internet, so threading could speed up the process if the network is slow)
> >>
> >>            start
> >>              | (blahblahblah...)
> >>              v
> >>  +-----+-----+-----+-----+
> >>  |     |     |     |     |
> >>--+-- --+-- --+-- --+-- --+--
> >>|   | |   | |   | |   | |   |
> >>| A | | B | | C | | D | | E |
> >>|   | |   | |   | |   | |   |
> >>--+-- --+-- --+-- --+-- --+--
> >>  |     |     |     |     |
> >>  +-----+-----+-----+-----+
> >>              | (blahblahblah...)
> >>              v
> >>           finish!
> > 
> > 
> >   If your goal is efficient network concurrency, threads are a second-rate
> >   solution.  Asynchronous IO is the winner: http://www.twistedmatrix.com/
> > 
> >   Here's an example (untested as usual):
> > 
> >     from twisted.web.client import downloadPage
> >     from twisted.internet import defer, reactor
> > 
> >     # Map URLs to files to which to save them
> >     URLs = {'www.google.com', 'google',
> >             # ...
> >             'wigu.com', 'wigu',
> >            }
> > 
> >     # Initiate the download and save of each page
> >     downloads = []
> >     for url in URLs:
> >         downloads.append(downloadPage(url, open(URLs[url], 'w')))
> > 
> >     # Wait for all of the downloads to finish, then stop
> >     defer.DeferredList(downloads).addCallback(lambda r: reactor.stop())
> > 
> >     # Start the reactor
> >     reactor.run()
> > 
> >   Jp


From onurb at xiludom.gro  Thu Nov 11 14:31:28 2004
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:31:28 +0100
Subject: Concise idiom to initialize dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <7P-dnS4Jpes5Yw3cRVn-rg@comcast.com>
References: <mailman.6164.1100018559.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<7P-dnS4Jpes5Yw3cRVn-rg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <4193bc18$0$15333$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Larry Bates a ?crit :
> It is almost certain that you should use either a list of dictionaries
> or a dictionary containing other dictionaries for this.  Creation of
> 26 distinct dictionaries is almost never a good solution as it makes
> it nearly impossible to iterate over them and would make code to
> manipulate them unable to be generalized easily.
> 
> Example:
> 
> #
> # To create a list of dictionaries
> #
> list_of_dicts=[]
> for i in range(26):
>     list_of_dicts.append({})
> 

or just
list_of_dicts = [{} for i in range(26)]

or if you want a dict of dicts :
dod = dict([(i, {}) for i in range(26)])


From beliavsky at aol.com  Sat Nov  6 21:57:22 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 6 Nov 2004 18:57:22 -0800
Subject: Beginning with Classes
References: <a37cb$418cce14$53e8229a$32210@freeler.nl>
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0411061857.352aa392@posting.google.com>

Noud Aldenhoven <jwaixs at freeler.nl> wrote in message news:<a37cb$418cce14$53e8229a$32210 at freeler.nl>...
> Hello,
> 
> For almost half a year I'm programming in Python. I never programmed before
> Python. In that half year I learned a lot, but one thing I still can't
> programme correct... Classes.
> 
> Is there a tutorial or a documentation about Python and classes. Starting
> from beginners and ending in avarege or expert?
> 
The book "Learning Python, Second Edition" by Mark Lutz, David Ascher
covers OOP with Python in detail, starting from scratch.


From belred1 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 17 21:57:23 2004
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 02:57:23 GMT
Subject: Named tuples
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6521.1100740991.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>	<mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.6511.1100727971.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gnf6b7.nnqkns1c991f3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.6520.1100738474.5135.python-list@python.org>	<10pntj5m0spvl3f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.6521.1100740991.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hcUmd.520265$mD.141102@attbi_s02>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:13:45 -0800, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
> 
>>Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
>>
>>
>>>4. Named attribute access is supported by __getattr__. Names are
>>>looked up on the magic __names__ attribute of the tuple.
>>>
>>>5. On slicing, a named tuple should return another named tuple. This
>>>means that the __names__ tuple has to be sliced also.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Hm.  If __names__ is a tuple, then does that tuple have a __names__
>>attribute as well?
>>
>>(In practice, I can't imagine any reason why tuple.__names__.__names__
>>should ever be anything other than None, but the potential recursiveness
>>makes me nervous...)
> 
> 
> Humm. The worst case is if it's done in a circular fashion, as in:
> 
> mytuple.__names__ = nametuple
> nametuple.__names__ = mytuple
> 
> That's weird. The best that I can imagine now is that it would be
> illegal to assign a named tuple to the __names__ member of another
> tuple.
> 


it should be possible to avoid a recusive problem:

 >>> a = ('1', '2')
 >>> a.__names__ = ('ONE', 'TWO')
 >>> a[0]
'1'
 >>> a.ONE
'1'
 >>> a[0] is a.ONE
True
 >>> b = (3, 4)
 >>> b.__names__ = a
 >>> b[0]
3
 >>> b.1
3
 >>> b.ONE
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
IndexError: tuple index out of range



 >>> a = (1, 2)
 >>> a.__names__ = ('ONE', 'TWO')
 >>> a[0]
1
 >>> a.ONE
1
 >>> a[0] is a.ONE
True
 >>> b = (3, 4)
 >>> b.__names__ = a
 >>> b[0]
3
 >>> b.1
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: tuple must contain strings



or maybe __names__ could be a property method and do some validation on assignment.


 >>> a = (1, 2)
 >>> a.__names__ = ('ONE', 'TWO')
 >>> a[0]
1
 >>> a.ONE
1
 >>> a[0] is a.ONE
True
 >>> b = (3, 4)
 >>> b.__names__ = a
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: tuple must contain strings



bryan


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Nov 19 21:28:28 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:28:28 -0500
Subject: Python with Apache 2.0
In-Reply-To: <306sikF2sueanU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <89cc6e1f.0411190632.2976b3e1@posting.google.com>
	<306sikF2sueanU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <S_xnd.1300$QR.188@lakeread01>

Damjan wrote:

>>Does python support threads safely along with Apache 2.0 in web
>>applications.
> 
> 
> Are you talking about mod_python?
> If so, then yes. But note that Apache threads entering the python
> interpreter (via mod_python) will be serialized on the GIL.
> 
> 
This is true, but it doesn't tell the whoel story: mod_python has taken 
care to make it possible to configure multiple interpreters - on a 
per-directory basis if necessary. Obviously they all share the pure 
code, but if I undestand correctly each has its own data space, and 
hence its own GIL.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From andreas.lobinger at netsurf.de  Mon Nov 22 11:34:00 2004
From: andreas.lobinger at netsurf.de (Andreas Lobinger)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:34:00 +0100
Subject: for(each) element aliasing
In-Reply-To: <2844q0l5ccahj6poumolghrcm2u2boo9ka@4ax.com>
References: <2844q0l5ccahj6poumolghrcm2u2boo9ka@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <cnt4dp$cmq$1@news.mch.sbs.de>

Aloha,

Matija Papec wrote:
> my @arr = 1..3;
> for my $element (@arr) {
>   $element *= 2;
> }
> print "@arr\n";
> 2 4 6

 >>> arr = [1,2,3]
 >>> print [element*2 for element in arr]
[2, 4, 6]

Wishing a happy day
		LOBI


From ml at dynkin.com  Wed Nov 24 10:35:11 2004
From: ml at dynkin.com (George Yoshida)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 00:35:11 +0900
Subject: read(1) returns string of length 2
In-Reply-To: <KM0pd.8790$_u6.8539@amsnews02.chello.com>
References: <xM_od.25928$jf.25666@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<mailman.6749.1101298838.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<KM0pd.8790$_u6.8539@amsnews02.chello.com>
Message-ID: <co29n9$m4p$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>

wolfgang haefelinger wrote:

> Actually,  everything is fine until the codecs reader is about
> to read '3b'. Instead of delivering this as next unicode char,
> I'm getting '3b' and '0d' as string of length 2.

I tried this out with Python 2.3 and 2.4 and noticed that they
handle input streams differently.
With 2.4 I get the same result as Java:

   0x5408 0x8a08 0x6642 0x9593 0x3b 0xd 0xa

(There's no {} marks.)

This makes me wonder where the difference comes from?
Is this a bug in 2.3 or a new feature in 2.4?

-- george


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Nov 12 22:46:17 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:46:17 -0500
Subject: escape sequences in list comprehensions
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0411120517.488d16ca@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0411120517.488d16ca@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cn401c$bcp$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

kartik wrote:
> Escape sequences don't seem to work in strings within list comprehensions:
> 
>>>>print ['%s\n' %i for i in [1,2,3]]
> 
> ['1\n', '2\n', '3\n']
> 
> What am I missing?

Others have answered, but not explained.  When you print
a list (in other words, when you display the results of
calling str() on a list), the list chooses how to display
itself.  It chooses to display the brackets at the start
and end, the commas separating the items, and the results
of calling repr() on each individual item.  That means
that strings are shown with quotation marks (which are not
part of the string normally) and with special characters
represented as escape sequences.

The following appears to be what you believed you wanted,
though it's not really what you wanted <wink>:

lst = ['%s\n' % i for i in [1,2,3]]
print '[' + ', '.join([str(x) for x in lst]) + ']'

-Peter


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Nov  9 18:44:45 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 00:44:45 +0100
Subject: Problems with user input
References: <pan.2004.11.09.22.54.37.120023@web.de>
Message-ID: <cmrkpc$1at$05$1@news.t-online.com>

> I want to read exactly one char from stdin, there should
> be no need to hit enter.

That's because your terminal is in canonical mode - that means that it only
reads whole lines. You can put it to non-canonical mode - one way is
described here:


http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/py4fun/lode/lode.html#auto2

Please make sure you set it back to canonical mode, or you will expirience
some strange effects.

> Why does the whitespace char appear in front of "Your input..."?
> I guess it has something to do with not causing a linebreak
> after "Input: (y/N) ", but I want no linebreak...

The print statement concats an argument list by spaces. Use this instead:

sys.stdout.write("Your input:%s\n" % input)

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From fabioz at esss.com.br  Thu Nov 25 09:47:13 2004
From: fabioz at esss.com.br (Fabio Zadrozny)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:47:13 -0300
Subject: ANN: PyGUIUnit release 1.0!!
Message-ID: <20041125134720.8B83C143024@ironman.esss.com.br>

PyGUIUnit is a framework created for testing GUIs.
(http://pyguiunit.sourceforge.net/)

It is provided as a python module and currently can be used to test
application that use GUIs created with PyQt More information can be obtained
at Trolltech (the makers of Qt) or at Riverbank Computing (the creators of
the Python bindings).

PyGUIUnit is a GUI unittesting framework written by Fabio Zadrozny and Bruno
da Silva de Oliveira at ESSS (Engineering Simulation and Scientific
Software).

It is built on top of the PyUnit framework, merging seamlessly with it,
allowing developers to write tests for GUIs as he would normally do for any
other piece of code. Its current implementation is based on the PyQt
framework, but extensions could easily be coded for most GUI toolkits (we're
looking for contributors).


Happy Testing,

Fabio Zadrozny
------------------------------------------------------
Software Developer
ESSS - Engineering Simulation and Scientific Software
www.esss.com.br




From ncoghlan at email.com  Sat Nov 27 08:10:49 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 23:10:49 +1000
Subject: import keyword behaviour - performance impact if used multiple
 times?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6838.1101554289.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6838.1101554289.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41a87cd9$0$25779$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Andrew James wrote:
> Hi,
> I've been looking around on Google for the answer to this question, and
> it's beginning to really bug me. I'm making some design decisions for
> some code I'm writing, and I'm wondering whether (Good Design Decisions
> apart), there's a performance impact in importing the same module in two
> different files. For example, with the following:
> 
> fileA.py
> -----------
> import psycopg
> class A:
>   ....
> 
> fileB.py
> import psycopg
> class B:
>    a = A()
>    ....
> 
> If I run fileB, will this import the psycopg twice, or once only?

I'm guessing fileB.py should read:
   import psycopg
   import A
   ...etc

Anyway, when Python imports modules it stores a reference to them in 
sys.modules. Any attempts to import the module again are satisfied using the 
cached version already stored in sys.modules.

So, in your example, psycopg is imported once only, and both fileA and fileB 
would be referring to the same version of psycopg.

 > Is
 > this something to do with system modules being singletons?

They aren't singletons in the GoF design pattern sense. However, Python's import 
machinery operates in such a way that it takes effort to get multiple version of 
the same module into memory at the same time (it *can* be done, but you have to 
work at it).

Cheers,
Nick.


From cedmunds at spamless.rochester.rr.com  Fri Nov 12 21:43:32 2004
From: cedmunds at spamless.rochester.rr.com (Cy Edmunds)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 02:43:32 GMT
Subject: Regarding color conversion (RGB->CMYK)
References: <4194bd54$0$75308$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <oxeld.5247$qv5.4826@twister.nyroc.rr.com>

"Johan Holst Nielsen" <spam at phpgeek.dk> wrote in message 
news:4194bd54$0$75308$edfadb0f at dread15.news.tele.dk...
> Hi all,
>
> I hope someone can help me.
>
> I have do do a color conversion from RGB to CMYK. It's harder than I 
> thought :D Anyway, here is my problem.
>
> I tried some differents ways to do it - I have a TIFF RGB file that I need 
> to convert to CMYK colorspace.
>
> First of all I tried ImageMagick - it works - or it doesn't. Its give me 
> an CMYK TIFF - but with way wrong colors :( Nothing seems to be quite 
> right in that picture - tried google - and it seems that other people have 
> the same problem as me :(
>
> After that my thoughts was on PIL (Python Imaging Library). The colors was 
> better - but to bright - cause it didn't include K (so it was basicly a 
> RGB=>CMY conversion - Black is 100% Cyan, Magenta and Yellow).
> I tried some googling - and again - some people said that PIL shouldn't be 
> used for images that should be printed "professional".
>
> Now, I don't have any clue about what I need to do? Is there another way 
> to solve my problems? Any tools that can convert somehow? Or any kind of 
> examples I can try to read?
>
> It have to run on a Linux box - Python, Perl, PHP, bash whatever :(
>
> Though about GIMP - but can find any information about how I can do a 
> conversion in command-line? Any one having knowlegde about this?
>
> Looking forward to hear from you and I will appreciate any kind of help.
>
> With Best Regards,
> Johan Holst Nielsen

There is no simple way to convert RGB to CMYK for the simple reason that 
CMYK is a device dependent color space. (Actually, unless it is calibrated 
somehow RGB is a device dependent color space also.) A good way to do the 
conversion is to get the ICC profile for the device that made the RGB and 
another ICC profile for the device which will print the CMYK and convert one 
to the other using a color management module -- aka a CMM. I don't know if 
ImageMagick can do this for you or not but it would be very hard to get the 
colors right any other way.

-- 
Cy
http://home.rochester.rr.com/cyhome/ 




From amk at amk.ca  Thu Nov 25 08:21:49 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 07:21:49 -0600
Subject: XUL Parser?
References: <mailman.6758.1101313933.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Ya-dnTB88a2fVzncRVn-ug@speakeasy.net>
	<30lqprF322r8kU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <I6GdneGgKITwQTjcRVn-rw@speakeasy.net>

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 05:35:24 -0500, 
	Leif K-Brooks <eurleif at ecritters.biz> wrote:
> A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> Anything wrong with <http://www.mozilla.org/projects/xul/xul.html>?

Unmaintained since 2001 and not complete.  Apparently there isn't even an
official DTD or RELAX NG schema for XUL.

--amk


From greg.steffensen at gmail.com  Sun Nov  7 15:11:00 2004
From: greg.steffensen at gmail.com (Greg  Steffensen)
Date: 7 Nov 2004 12:11:00 -0800
Subject: How come wxPython isn't in the standard library?
In-Reply-To: <1099858070.544710.146320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<aj3u52-a2r.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<ogjv52-anq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<mailman.6060.1099838610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmli2h$c18$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<1099858070.544710.146320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1099858260.250679.61490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Errr... QT and GTK obviously have many language bindings too... I'm
saying that wxPython is superior because it has lots of bindings and is
portable.



From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Wed Nov 10 16:23:53 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 21:23:53 GMT
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmgcp1$hpk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncong4u.1tk.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmggel$t2o$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cmggh2$t2o$01$2@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5996.1099739023.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmil81$184$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<GW9jd.20763$K7.6442@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<slrncouq2h.mcv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<5V0kd.30218$K7.5461@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <slrncp51j8.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 10:24:01 GMT, Neil Hodgson <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> Gabriel Zachmann:
>> >     The layout is also modified by various compiler options.
>>
>> really? that would mean that c++ libs themselves are
>> not binary compatible among each other?
> 
>    I was thinking in terms of Microsoft C++ options like the vtordisp
> setting used to handle virtual inheritance (/vd0 or /vd1), pointer to member
> representation (/vm*), and the old favourite struct alignment (/Zp*).
> Borland adds options for allowing small enumerations to take only one byte
> (-b-), zero size empty base classes (-Ve), zero size empty members (-Vx),
> and a layout compatible with old compiler versions (-Vl).
> 
>    Much of the time C++ code only has to be compatible with the other
> modules it is delivered with.

But most of the time it has to be compatible with the standard library.

Even if these flags exist, I think it's very rare to encounter more than one
layout, for one specific compiler/compiler version/architecture.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Nov  2 15:57:27 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 14:57:27 -0600
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
In-Reply-To: <x7654ovy2k.fsf@guru.mired.org>
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>	<du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>	<4187b7a1$0$2383$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<x7654ovy2k.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <4187F4B7.9060504@colorstudy.com>

Mike Meyer wrote:
> Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>Ville Vainio wrote:
>>
>>>I think you are overselling CPAN a little bit here. It is not an
>>>absolute requirement, and I think Python can easily surpass Perl in
>>>popularity even without CPAN functionality. Perl popularity in general
>>>seems to be going down, and I don't think Perl is something to worry
>>>about anymore. Hell, people rarely even mention Perl these days
>>>anyway.
>>
>>Just today we required a module that was not installed on our system.
>>
>>sudo perl -MCPAN -e 'install Data::Pager'
> 
> 
> With PyPI and distutils, we've got 90% of that already. PyPI needs to
> grow a link to the tarball, and a way to turn a package name into that
> link. Then you need a tool bundled with Python that gets the link from
> PyPI, downloads the package, and runs "python setup.py install".

I might imagine:

   python -m distutils pypi:apackage install

pypi has a download link, but it can be zipped or a tarball, and 
sometimes neither, and it's not really required.  And SourceForge has 
its lame balancing system no matter what we do.  But zip and tar can 
both be handled, and SF just requires a custom link scraper.  The rest 
is a matter of getting people to use PyPI, and put in accurate download 
links.  And use trully unique names.  And some other things I haven't 
thought of.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From dan.gass at gmail.com  Mon Nov 29 03:10:43 2004
From: dan.gass at gmail.com (Dan Gass)
Date: 29 Nov 2004 00:10:43 -0800
Subject: ANN: TestGen 0.05 C/C++ Test Generator Released
Message-ID: <bc15ba28.0411290010.7d25dcde@posting.google.com>

TestGen 0.05 is now available and contains significant enhancements.

What's New
----------

Significant Enhancements/Changes
1) added manipc.py, a generic C/C++ source manipulator that can be used for
   function/method isolation and stubbing for the purposes of unit testing
   with any test framework, including CppUnit.
2) although not new (but neglected in first anouncement) this package also
   includes doxit.py which is used to automatically insert Doxygen comment
   templates into source code.
   
Minor Enhancements/Changes
1) C/C++ stubber has index checks to prevent storage array overflows
2) added a lot of comments to the example test scripts.
3) moved all example source files into examples/source subdirectory and moved
   defaultConfig.py to the examples subdirectory.

Bug Fixes
1) corrected undefined name problem in C/C++ source manipulator removefunction().
2) unit test stubber didn't recognize #include of .hpp files (or any include
   where extension is greater than one character. 
3) python unit test target - fixed so syntax error doesn't occur when no test 
   cases.


What's TestGen
--------------

TestGen is a Python package for software testing.  The package currently 
contains targets for unit testing C/C++.  Future releases will support 
integration testing of C/C++ systems as well as functional testing using 
Python targets. 

- requires Python2.2 or later (it was developed on Python2.3 with some
  testing/verification performed with 2.2)
- Python API for specification of test case setup, inputs and outputs
  (Python's power and flexibility can be used to generate test cases)
- generates "C/C++" test code per test specifications, compiles, links,
  runs, and evaluates the results
- provides access to C++ protected and private variables and methods
- function/method stubbing (for satisfying external linkages or testing
  interfaces to them)
- function/method remove/copy (for isolating code under test
  to reduce external linkage requirements)
- "on the fly" code under test manipulation capability (useful for
  making temporary code modifications to make it testable)
- convenient "C" random number function library (useful when iterating
  the test to get better coverage)
- easy file output comparison and base lining
- test expectations independently verified for successful completion.
- batch facility available for running multiple test scripts (batch
  tests may be nested in that they may execute other batch tests)
- GNU and Microsoft compilers supported (customizable for others)

TestGen also includes "by products" that fall outside the main purpose
of TestGen but are related or depend on TestGen (IOW, great tools
that I don't want to create independent projects for yet):

- manipc.py -- source code manipulator for isolating/stubbing
  functions and methods for test purposes.  This can be used with any
  test framework including CppUnit.
- doxit.py -- inserts Doxygen comment templates into source code for
  the file header as well as structures, enums, classes, functions, 
  methods, and defines.  Does not insert templates where templates
  already exist.  Prepopulates certain fields such as function name,
  parameters, and return type in the template automatically.
- config.py -- flexible configuration file reader (a less up to date
  version is also available at http://sourceforge.net/projects/config-py/.
- HtmlDiff -- class that creates an HTML table showing a side by side 
  comparison of two versions of a text (is being included in Python2.4).

License
-------

The vast majority of TestGen is released under the GNU General Public
License with the small remainder released under the MIT License.  All
modules should be clearly marked, if not please let me know.

Download
--------

Downloads are available at the following address under the "Files" link:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/testgen/

Feedback
--------

Feedback and comments (both positive and negative) are very welcome.  
Besides allowing me to improve this package, it also lets me know how 
worth while my time is spent making updates to this package publically
available.  Email addresses will be respected of course.

Documentation is always a challenge to keep accurate and complete.  If 
you struggle with any part of it, let me know.  Better yet if you can 
contribute, even something as small as a clarification, that would be 
greatly appreciated.
  
You may contact the author at dan.gass at gmail.com.


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 22 19:37:36 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:37:36 -0700
Subject: Looking for a good interactive shell
References: <cnq463$19n9$1@news.uit.no>
Message-ID: <cnu0oh$u03$1@sea.gmane.org>

Tomas wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> I'm looking for a replacement for the standard interactive python shell. So
> far I've tried IPython and PyCrust. I liked both, but I'm not 100% happy
> with any of them. My main complaint about IPython is its missing support for
> multiline editing. To do multiline editing, it has to start an external
> editor, but then I lose all the nice features like autocompletion.

The reason ipython lacks multiline editing, is because such a feature is beyond
what readline can provide.  The only way to get it is to write a full-blown
curses (or GUI) interface.  Because of my limited (time) resources, and the
portability problems of such an approach (curses doesn't work under Windows,
and is a finicky beast across platforms), I just had to omit this feature.

As Robert Kern mentioned, a (slooow) rewrite is under way (or rather, ramping
up) to enable ipython to be plugged into a GUI, with pycrust and IDLE being
likely initial targets.

In the meantime, besides Craig's vim suggestion, I can offer some more tips (I
know these are not full solutions, but they may help some):

1. You could try (X)Emacs.  There is full ipython support for emacs, and with
it you can do all your editing in Emacs and pass chunks of code to ipython for
execution.

2. Use the Ctrl-p feature of readline/ipython to recall quickly previous lines. 
I do some (limited to 4-6 lines) multiline editing in ipython this way, since
instead of hitting up-arrow umpteen times, you only need to type one or two
letters and Ctrl-p to recall the line you want.  It's not perfect, and I
wouldn't use it for extended editing, but it helps in some cases.

Cheers,

f



From eric at ericwalstad.com  Thu Nov  4 11:19:31 2004
From: eric at ericwalstad.com (Eric Walstad)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 16:19:31 GMT
Subject: Python CGI - Accepting Input, Invoking Another Process,
	Ending CGI
References: <99351542.0411030837.beea2c7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <lEsid.38499$QJ3.28104@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

LarsenMTL wrote:

> Python Users:
> 
> Based on previous suggestions from this group, I'm attempting to write
> a python CGI that takes input from an HTML form, invokes a second
> python script using this input, tells the user that their process has
> started, ends the cgi output and later emails the results of the
> invoked script.
> 
> My problem is that no mater how I invoke the 2nd script (spawnlp with
> P_NOWAIT, system with &, etc..) the CGI caller continues to run until
> it finishes.  If you press the stop button or close the browser
> certain portions of the 2nd script finish but not all of it.  In
> paticular the 2nd script uses teTex (invoked by os.system) to process
> some tex files, this always errors out if the browser is closed or
> stopped.
> 
> Regardless of all that, what is the proper way to have a python CGI
> batch another python script?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mark

Hi Mark,

I had to do something like this in mod_python.  I ended up using a
mod_python function to detach the process from the request.  I don't know
how mod_python handles it, but it worked for me may be a lead for you to
follow (looking at the mod_python source, that is):
<http://www.modpython.org/pipermail/mod_python/2004-June/015719.html>

Best,

Eric.


From thomas.schulz at esands.com  Tue Nov  9 18:35:31 2004
From: thomas.schulz at esands.com (tschulz)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 23:35:31 +0000
Subject: emacs swaps windows
Message-ID: <cmrk87$72p$1@news-02.connect.com.au>

In emacs' python-mode, a file can be executed by pressing Ctrl-C Ctrl-C. 
If the code execution terminates with an Exception, emacs swaps the 
source code window and the python output window.
Is there a way to stop that annoying behavior?

Tom


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 12 06:12:19 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:12:19 +0100
Subject: ZIP files
References: <808f000f.0411100805.7bff7e5d@posting.google.com>
	<qjp4p0dp83ej0e5js9n6inippgpqefb59e@4ax.com>
	<x73bzhpfpx.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<6f402501.0411120120.3f5147d6@posting.google.com>
	<1gn4y9w.3frb611oy9y8pN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<u0rvtjlw.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <1gn50h0.678m4dokv9vfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote:
   ...
> > def write_data(filename, data, flags='w'):
> >     fileobject = open(filename, flags)
> >     try: fileobject.write(data)
> >     finally: fileobject.close()
> >
> > needs to be coded once, and then makes the operation just as convenient
> > as doing it inline...
> 
> I'd suggest to expand this a bit, and make it working correctly on
> windows too, where binary files must be opened with the 'b' flag:

Hmmm, I thought the optional flags parm would suffice, but you're
probably right it wouldn't...

> def _write_data(filename, data, flags):
>     fileobject = open(filename, flags)
>     try: fileobject.write(data)
>     finally: fileobject.close()
> 
> def write_data(filename, data, flags="wb"):
>     _write_data(filename, data, flags)
> 
> def write_text(filename, text, flags="w"):
>     _write_data(filename, data, flags)
> 
> plus the corresponding read_data() and read_text() functions.
> Hm, add an encoding for unicode, maybe...
> Cookbook recipe, or standard lib?

I'm tempted to add convenience to the write_data wrapper by accepting
some non-str type for data, but that might be going overboard...


Alex


From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Nov 15 19:41:12 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:41:12 -0800
Subject: nonblocking read()
References: <cnbgd0$ls4$1@news.apple.com>
Message-ID: <donn-6AB600.16411215112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <cnbgd0$ls4$1 at news.apple.com>,
 Peter Ammon <peter_ammon at rocketmail.com> wrote:

> I would like to read from a pipe in which data may arrive slowly.  From 
> experimenting, it looks like os.read() will block until it returns the 
> maximum amount of data you asked for, in the second parameter to read(), 
> or until it hits EOF.  I cannot find a way to return only the data that 
> the file object has immediately available.
> 
> If no data is available, blocking is OK.
> 
> The only workaround I can think of is to call select() in a loop, 
> reading and storing one byte each time, and then returning them when 
> select() indicates that the pipe is not ready for reading.

I don't think that will work either!

But os.read (a.k.a. posix.read) does just what you want.
Use it with a file descriptor -

   fp = os.popen(cmd, 'r')
   fd = fp.fileno()
   while 1:
       data = os.read(fd, 4096)
       if not data:
           break
       dispose_of(data)

Don't use the file object read or readline methods at all,
because they could leave data in their own input buffer,
where posix.read can't see it (nor select, which is why
I doubt your work-around would work.)

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From richie at entrian.com  Wed Nov 10 10:31:51 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:31:51 +0000
Subject: sockets: How to know when your data is sent
In-Reply-To: <4190e27f$0$95596$a1866201@visi.com>
References: <f00811ba.0411090653.5f6d1d29@posting.google.com>
	<4190e27f$0$95596$a1866201@visi.com>
Message-ID: <5gc4p0pdj7e4ft4i3t0tsdv7f0oghc2u0d@4ax.com>


[Marc]
> When I use the send function, it will
> happily send a buffer of a megabyte and more in one shot. But
> of course, the data is still in the network buffer... Meaning
> you can't disconnect for awhile (but for how long...). The
> problem is, how can I know when it's done? Is there a way to
> be notified when the data has truly been sent?

[Grant]
> Under Linux, there is no way to tell.  IIRC, there's no way to
> tell under BSD either. [...]
> The way to tell that data has been sent is to use an
> application-level protocol that acknowleges the data transferr.

If you want to ensure that all the data has been sent before *closing* the
socket, which sounds like Marc's requirement, you can use
setsockopt(SO_LINGER):

       SO_LINGER
              Sets  or gets the SO_LINGER option. The argument is
              a linger structure.

              struct linger {
                  int   l_onoff;    /* linger active */
                  int   l_linger;   /* how many seconds to linger for */
              };

              When enabled, a close(2) or  shutdown(2)  will  not
              return  until  all  queued  messages for the socket
              have been successfully sent or the  linger  timeout
              has been reached. Otherwise, the call returns imme?
              diately and the closing is done in the  background.
              When  the  socket  is closed as part of exit(2), it
              always lingers in the background.

(from the GNU manpages).  I don't believe that's true for shutdown() on
all platforms, but I do believe it's true for close() / closesocket().
Calling it from Python is a bit of a chore involving the struct module,
and is left as an exercise for the reader.  8-)

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com



From justinstraube at charter.net  Tue Nov 30 23:23:24 2004
From: justinstraube at charter.net (Justin Straube)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:23:24 -0800
Subject: pickle and py2exe
Message-ID: <qphqq0poq7d842fvm6hvu2gah4amh4l70k@4ax.com>

Hello,

Im trying to compile a script with py2exe. The pickle module is causing the
program to give an error.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "SETIstat.pyw", line 330, in ?
  File "SETIstat.pyw", line 84, in start_up
  File "SETIstat.pyw", line 79, in config_load
  File "pickle.pyc", line 1390, in load
  File "pickle.pyc", line 872, in load
  File "pickle.pyc", line 985, in load_string
LookupError: unknown encoding: string-escape

the data in the pickled file is a dictionary containing a couple strings. The
strings do contain \n and \t charaters but no other special characters or
anything. 

Does anyone have any suggestions to what I can try to get around this? The
pickle module works fine when the .pyw file is run. Its only when I compile this
is there an issue. 

Thanks for any help,

Justin


From mrroach at okmaybe.com  Tue Nov 23 22:57:14 2004
From: mrroach at okmaybe.com (Mark Roach)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 03:57:14 GMT
Subject: Transfer data from webpage form to database
In-Reply-To: <41a3de0b$0$29437$ba624c82@nntp06.dk.telia.net>
References: <41a36ab7$0$23056$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net>
	<m33bz05u3p.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
	<41a38f13$0$23068$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net>
	<liNod.42476$Z14.17919@news.indigo.ie>
	<mailman.6735.1101248667.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41a3ccf2$0$29450$ba624c82@nntp06.dk.telia.net>
	<41a3d863$0$29440$ba624c82@nntp06.dk.telia.net>
	<41a3de0b$0$29437$ba624c82@nntp06.dk.telia.net>
Message-ID: <1101268631.7318.11.camel@flmrroach.okmaybe.com>

On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 02:16 +0100, Pete..... wrote:
> Hi I got that error debugged but, now there is a new one:
>          12 cur.execute('''INSERT INTO persons (persons.name, 
> persons.surname, persons.username, persons.password) VALUES %s,%s, %s, %s 
> ''' %(form['name'].value, form['surname'].value, form['username'].value, 
> form['password'].value))

That syntax doesn't look right. I think you were closer with your
previous attempt. This is slightly more correct

cur.execute('''INSERT INTO persons (name, surname, username, password) 
    VALUES('%s','%s', '%s', '%s')''' % (form[name].value, 
    form[surname].value, form[username].value, form[password].value))

(Note the single quotes around the %s)

The real problem with this code is that you are letting the user of your
website inject whatever SQL they want directly into your command. I am
not sure if this works for pypgsql, but with psycopg the safe way to do
this is

insert_command = '''
    INSERT INTO persons (name, surname, username, password) 
    VALUES(%s, %s, %s, %s)
'''
cur.execute(insert_command, 
	(form[name].value, form[surname].value, \
	form[username].value, form[password].value))

I believe this works with other DB API 2.0 compatible modules. This lets
the database module worry about whether "jim's house" needs to be turned
into "jim\\'s house" or "'jim\\'s house'"

HTH

-Mark



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Tue Nov 16 02:54:22 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 07:54:22 GMT
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<4195419b.303035081@news.oz.net>
	<slrncpgm80.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6381.1100534178.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncpjcga.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-11-15, Tim Peters schreef <tim.peters at gmail.com>:
> [Antoon Pardon]
>> ...
>> AFAIU the Queue module doesn't block on a full/empty queue when
>> a timeout is specified but goes in a loop sleeping and periodically
>> checking whether place/items are available. With signals that
>> can be sent to a thread the queue could just set an alarm and
>> then block as if no timeout value was set and either unblock
>> when place/items are available or get signalled when the timeout
>> period is over.
>
> The only things CPython requires of the *platform* thread implementation are:
>
> 1. A way to start a new thread, and obtain a unique C long "identifier"
>    for it.
>
> 2. Enough gimmicks to build a lock object with Python's core
>    threading.Lock semantics (non-rentrant; any thread T can release
>    a lock in the acquired state, regardless of whether T acquired it).
>
> Everything else is built on those, and CPython's thread implementation
> is extremely portable-- and easy to port --as a result.
>
> Nothing in CPython requires that platform threads support directing a
> signal to a thread, neither that the platform C library support an
> alarm() function, nor even that the platform have a SIGALRM signal.
>
> It's possible to build a better Queue implementation that runs only on
> POSIX systems, or only on Windows systems, or only on one of a dozen
> other less-popular target platforms.  The current implementation works
> fine on all of them, although is suboptimal compared to what could be
> done in platform-specific Queue implementations.
>
> For that matter, even something as simple as threading.RLock could be
> implemented in platform-specific ways that are more efficient than the
> current portable implementation (which builds RLock semantics on top
> of #2 above).

I don't fault the current Queue implementation. I think your arguments
are very strong and I'm not arguing that the current Queue implementation
should be replaced by a dozen none portable system dependent
implementation. But by limiting the signal module as it is now you make
it that much harder for people on posix systems to come up for a
different implementation on those systems.

The problem I have with the current implementation is not so much one
of burden on the system but one of possible "starvation" of a thread.

Suppose we have a number of consumers on a Queue, some simply block and
others use timeouts. The current implementation disfavors those threads
with a timeout too much IMO, because the block threads ask for the
lock continuosly while the timeout threads only ask for the lock
periodically.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From nehalmistry at gmx.net  Tue Nov 16 11:54:06 2004
From: nehalmistry at gmx.net (Nehal)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:54:06 -0800
Subject: cgi.FieldStorage() is slow
In-Reply-To: <REmmd.10661$nj.5428@lakeread01>
References: <mailman.6402.1100584911.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<REmmd.10661$nj.5428@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <20041116085406.00001ef4@nehal>

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 07:40:17 -0500
Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

> The cgi module is a confusing mess of code munged, over the
> years, by many hands. It would take a brave programmer to plunge
> in and do what's necessary.
> 
> not-brave-enough-ly y'rs  - steve
if i were to do it, could i rewrite the functions in the cgi
module?, or would i need to keep the same functions for backward
compatibility?
-- Nehal


From bradtilley at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 14:01:37 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 14:01:37 -0500
Subject: re.compile
Message-ID: <cm616i$8il$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Is there a quick way to make re.compile show what it's looking for?

x = re.compile('[a-z]')


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Nov 16 02:35:17 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:35:17 -0800
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <jn7jp0l5qf63hgkpes65vmt50mn1coiqcj@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.6397.1100570319.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<jn7jp0l5qf63hgkpes65vmt50mn1coiqcj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20041115231806.F961.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Andrea Griffini <agriff at tin.it> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:50:12 -0800, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu>
> wrote:
> 
> >@d_adaptors(d_adapt(foo), d_adapt(bar))
> >def x(y, z):
> >    <body of x>
> 
> First listing type coercions and then listing the variables
> on which they're applied ? IMO this is worse than pre-ansi C.

Since I didn't learn C (1999) until after the ANSI standard, if you
would care to explain that'd be great.  Is it perhaps something like (I
can't remember the syntax I've seen, as I've only seen it a few times)...

int main(argc, argv)
(int argc, char[] argv)
{ /*body/* }


> I'd prefer explicit calls at the begin of the body rather
> than that... it would be way more readable.

So the trick is to ask yourself what is available now.  Decorators are
available now (or in a month or two when 2.4 comes out), and are about
as close to what you want as is going to happen before Py3k, and even
then, it may have syntax you don't want.

Me, I'll just stick my type checking and coercions (if either are
necessary) in the function body where I always have.

 - Josiah



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Tue Nov 16 11:41:23 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:41:23 -0300
Subject: newbie question
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7BEA@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[johnw822003 at yahoo.com]

#- Can python do Shell programming or system programming as perl does?
#- Thanks.

For us that don't know exactly what does perl with Shell programming or
system programming, what do you mean?

.	Facundo
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From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Mon Nov 22 13:34:01 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 19:34:01 +0100
Subject: for(each) element aliasing
In-Reply-To: <c9a4q0d6lc8usqtcjbidgn786tmkfhs0gf@4ax.com>
References: <2844q0l5ccahj6poumolghrcm2u2boo9ka@4ax.com>
	<mailman.6698.1101141567.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<c9a4q0d6lc8usqtcjbidgn786tmkfhs0gf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <30epopF2tjcn1U1@uni-berlin.de>

Matija Papec wrote:
> X-Ftn-To: Jp Calderone 
> 
> Jp Calderone <exarkun at divmod.com> wrote:
>>> -------
>>> 2 4 6
>>
>>  No.  Integers in Python are immutable.  For lists of other things, mutation in-place (similar to the above example) is possible, but for integers and other immutable types, it is not.  You may be interested in list comprehensions, though:
>>
>>    arr = range(1, 4)
>>    arr[:] = [a * 2 for a in arr]
>>    print arr
> 
> I guess this works like "map" but "for" is more idimatic.

Yes. List comprehensions are elegant (and fast) expressions you would
otherwise construct with map() and filter().

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From nick at craig-wood.com  Wed Nov  3 05:30:07 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 03 Nov 2004 10:30:07 GMT
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
	<du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<4187b7a1$0$2383$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<hu0l52-ml1.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	<41880b1a$0$19736$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5848.1099437299.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<87vfcnr76l.fsf@sinken.local.csis.hku.hk>
	<x7hdo7v25e.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <slrncohaph.6mt.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
>  Actually, what people on systems with proper package management want
>  is packages that pull stuff from CPAN and install them as
>  packages.

Absolutely!

For instance with Debian and Perl, dh-make-perl will turn a perl
module (tar.gz or straight from CPAN) into a .deb which you then
managage as normal.  When using Debian I never use CPAN and always
dh-make-perl because I'd much rather have the package managed via
dpkg/apt-get.

That said I haven't found many perl modules that I wanted that weren't
already packaged for Debian.  The same with python modules too.

>  Doing this right is hard, because CPAN makes assumptions
>  about where things are liable to be installed.

No idea how dh-make-perl works.  It does though!

>  For Python, what we want are packages that use distutils to install
>  them as packages. Doing this right is trivial, because distutils
>  gets all the relevant information from the environment.

distutils already knows how to make .rpm files.

Eg choosing a package at the top of PyPI :-

    # Download
    wget 'http://ftp.livinglogic.de/xist/ll-xist-2.6.1.tar.gz'
    # Unpack
    tar zxvf ll-xist-2.6.1.tar.gz 
    cd ll-xist-2.6.1
    # Make rpm
    python setup.py bdist_rpm
    # Make deb
    cd dist/
    fakeroot alien ll-xist-2.6.1-1.i386.rpm ll-xist-2.6.1-1.i386.deb
    # Install with package manager
    sudo dpkg -i ll-xist_2.6.1-2_i386.deb

This hasn't worked with every package I've tried it with though!

...

To make PyPI into a CPAN replacement it needs to
1) make all the submitters use distutils, and automatically test the packaging
2) host the source tar balls
3) have a system of mirrors and provide this list for download
4) provide dependency information (maybe this should be in the distutils
   information in the package)
5) Provide the list of packages, descriptions, and dependencies for
   download
6) Some sort of review system (maintainers, peer review, rating etc)
   for each package for quality assurance

Given all that the an automatically download package x + dependencies
program would be easy.

A cross platform software repository like this would be a goal well
worth aiming for IMHO!  PyPI is an excellent start though.

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From eddie at kickingdragon.com  Sat Nov 13 15:29:37 2004
From: eddie at kickingdragon.com (Eddie Parker)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 13:29:37 -0700
Subject: Advice needed
In-Reply-To: <1sqld.731$nj.183@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <E1CT4XC-0004At-00@galvatron.kickingdragon.com>

Sorry Steve, but I have to disagree over a minor point.

I always think there's a good reason to add another language to your
arsenal. Time may be an issue, or some such, but learning new languages is
almost always a good thing.

Why? Well, generally people who design new languages do so to get around
other problems in other languages, be it ease of use, speed, or what have
you. In each of them, come different syntax, usage, and a whole or partially
new way of thinking. 

Take a small example: Where I work, a lot of the people have never really
looked outside the scope of what they're doing, and so all the code they've
done is completely built in C/C++, and they've never thought about embedding
another language for what they're doing (a webserver, with interpreted code
to generate HTML). 

Now, if I could find out if and when Python would allow itself to run
multithreaded or not.. I'd be using that myself. But that's my issue. :)

Anyhow - just a small point I wanted to bring up. Learning for the sake of
learning is never really a bad thing. So long as it doesn't cut into my Halo
2 time. :)

-e-

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+eddie=kickingdragon.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+eddie=kickingdragon.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
Steve Holden
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 9:11 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Advice needed

Alberto wrote:

> I was trying to understand the reasons why I should learn Python. More
> like a pros/cons about this language. Currently, I use C, C/C++, Java,
> Perl, Visual VB and was looking to see the usefulness of Python.  Any
> suggestions?
> 
Do some Googling, look at what Python can do, make your mind up.

There's no point adding yet another language to the armory just for the 
sake of it, good though the new language might be.

Think of problems that have been difficult to solve using your present 
toolset and see if you can find Python soltuions that seem to be more 
elegant. With your programming background you can learn enough Python in 
a long day's Googling to let you make your mind up.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 11/1/2004
 

---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 11/1/2004
 



From sxanth at ceid.upatras.gr  Wed Nov 24 17:27:57 2004
From: sxanth at ceid.upatras.gr (Stelios Xanthakis)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:27:57 -0800
Subject: teaching OO
In-Reply-To: <slrncq8inq.9gv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
References: <slrncq8inq.9gv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <41A50AED.9030601@ceid.upatras.gr>

Gabriel Zachmann wrote:


> My question now is: do you think I should switch over to Python completely
> (next time), and dump all the interesting issues involved in C++'s virtual
> classes, overloading, and templates? (In Python, all of that would just
> disappear ... ;-) )
> 

No! Python, being a dynamic language has certain advantages over 
compiled languages.
In analogy with C/C++, in python:
  * all functions are pointers to functions
  * all methods are virtual
  * all classes have a virtual table (__dict__)
  * all types are "virtual"
  * as a result everything is polymorphic and generic
  * etc.

Moreover, in python an instance can have it's own methods, so the 
class/instance distinction is different than C++ and friends. Python's 
classes are more like "flying dictionaries" or something:)

IMO, it would be better to proceed normally teaching OOP with C++ and 
dedicate extra lessons on "dynamic/interpreted languages and how can 
they do everything OOP'd like to".


Stelios
--------------------
How's the PEP going?


From claird at lairds.us  Fri Nov  5 07:08:20 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 12:08:20 GMT
Subject: Not a flame war--curious about Python vs. Tcl
References: <EFghd.8083$b%5.5749@fe37.usenetserver.com>
	<40kh52-td1.ln1@lairds.us> <cm6bg2$s5l$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <m66s52-91c.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <cm6bg2$s5l$1 at gnus01.u.washington.edu>,
Aric Bills <aricb at u.wwashingtonn.edu> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>> I can make a case that Python's the best language available
>> for large-team projects--certainly better than Java and C++,
>> and arguably on a par with Smalltalk.
>
>Cameron, can you elaborate on this (or point to resources that do)?  As a
>person who's never worked on a large-team project, I'm curious to know what
>kinds of features facilitate or get in the way of productivity in such an
>environment.
>
>

Good question.  It deserves a better answer than one I can
express in the time I'm willing to give this week.  I'll
summarize, though:

First, C++ is part of the problem, NOT part of the solution.
While I like C++, and often use it, I consider it a disaster
for teams.  It requires too much discipline, and, in group
work, inevitably leads to breakdowns and recriminations (if
only in memory management; look for "memory management" in
<URL: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html >).

Next, Python thumps Java on readability and maintainability.
While I don't yet know how to make an iron-clad objective
case for this briefly, I'm utterly convinced that Python
programs are significantly easier to read "six months later".
This matters:  much of teamwork is dealing with source code
that one doesn't understand.  Traditionalists promote Java
as a statically-typed language, but this is just a distrac-
tion; Python's more graceful expressiveness leads to 
relatively more focus on correct algorithms and unit tests,
while Java is relatively mired in syntax.  Programming in
Java feels too often like dealing with Java, whereas Python
is a leader in letting developers think they're dealing with
the application.

Finally, at least for now, don't underestimate the extent to
which Java (like C++, but not Smalltalk) is just too *heavy*.
Even in modern computing environments with apparently slick
IDEs backed by gobs of CPU cycles and main memory, big Java
projects can bog down in the basic edit-compile-execute cycle.
They're just a drag, despite all the traditional rhetoric 
about Java's status as "enterprise-class".  Python line counts
are typically around half those of corresponding Java projects,
and, even at comparable levels, Python always gives a much
better impression of manageability.  You write a small Python
fragment, you execute it immediately; it feels good.  While
there are pitfalls in module searching which can slow big
applications, at their worst they don't cause the delays that
the Java world commonly accepts.

I hope to return and say more about this within the week.


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Nov 30 10:43:24 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:43:24 -0500
Subject: Struggling with struct.unpack() and "p" format specifier
In-Reply-To: <coi42d$6h9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
References: <6b26402d.0411300657.d575d75@posting.google.com>
	<coi42d$6h9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <coi4dt$7i7$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> I would be inclined to say that the "p" format in struct (using
> Python 2.4rc1 or Python 2.3.3) does not act as documented on
> Windows XP SP2, at least...
> 
> I hope we've both just missed something obvious.

Okay, we were certainly missing something, but I don't believe
I would call it obvious.

I can't deduce from the documentation the fact that the "p"
format requires a length *in front of the p in the format string*.

Furthermore, it assumes a length of 1 if one is not specified.

And there is no example that shows how to do it correctly.

(I did Google searches and found examples, but by then I
was looking for a bug report and didn't even think to look
at the examples themselves. :-(  )

Doc bug?  Did anyone else find the documentation on "p"
to be clear and effective?

-Peter


From grante at visi.com  Mon Nov  8 18:22:01 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 08 Nov 2004 23:22:01 GMT
Subject: Determining combination of bits
References: <x3Qjd.121786$hj.41260@fed1read07>
	<mailman.6124.1099945664.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8KQjd.121796$hj.4674@fed1read07> <418ff674$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<p7Sjd.5365$F6.1280593@news.siol.net>
	<cmoqvv$68r$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <418fff99$0$87155$a1866201@visi.com>

On 2004-11-08, Diez B. Roggisch <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote:
>> A lapse of mind?
>>>>> n = 6
>>>>> n & (-n)
>> 2
>> 
>> You probably meant n&1 or perhaps n%2.
>
> No, the exact right thing: 6 is binary
>
> 110
>
> with the least significant bit beeing 
>
> 10

The least significant bit of 110 is this one here -----+
                               ^                       |
                               |                       |
                               +-----------------------+

It's a 0 (zero).

What I think you're trying to say is something like the value
of the rightmost 1.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  The PINK SOCKS were
                                  at               ORIGINALLY from 1952!! But
                               visi.com            they went to MARS around
                                                   1953!!


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Fri Nov 12 03:42:06 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 08:42:06 GMT
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <slrncp8tqi.c7p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-11-09, Antoon Pardon schreef <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be>:
> I have had a look at the signal module and the example
> and came to the conclusion that the example wont work
> if you try to do this in a thread.
>
> So is there a chance similar code will work in a thread?


Well I guess that the lack of response means the anser is:

  Not likely.


Pity!

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov 15 08:19:17 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 08:19:17 -0500
Subject: Combining arbitrary lists
In-Reply-To: <riqrdm6nrkjc.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
References: <41982269$1_1@alt.athenanews.com>
	<riqrdm6nrkjc.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
Message-ID: <o72md.5120$nj.2359@lakeread01>

Thorsten Kampe wrote:

> * Nick (2004-11-15 04:28 +0100)
> 
>>Given that
>>
>>n = [ [1, 2, 3], [4, 5, 6], [7, 8] ]
>>
>>then the following code produces what I expect
>>
>>for x in n[0]:
>>   for y in n[1]:
>>     for z in n[2]:
>>       print [x, y, z]
>>
>>--output--
>>[1, 4, 7]
>>[1, 4, 8]
>>[1, 5, 7]
>>[1, 5, 8]
>>  ...
>>[3, 6, 8]
>>--      --
>>
>>How can I do this for an arbirary length of n?
> 
> 
> This is the Cartesian product of three sets. Have a look at
> http://www.thorstenkampe.de/python/utils.py:
> 
> def cartes(seq0, seq1, modus = 'pair'):
>     """ return the Cartesian Product of two sequences """
>     if   modus == 'pair':
>         return [[item0, item1] for item0 in seq0 for item1 in seq1]
>     elif modus == 'triple':
>         return [item0 + [item1] for item0 in seq0 for item1 in seq1]
> 
> Then you would generate your output like this:
> 
>>>>cartes(cartes([1, 2, 3], [4, 5, 6]), [7, 8], 'triple')

I think the point of the question was to act on an arbitrary number of 
length-3 lists.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From theller at python.net  Fri Nov  5 12:27:28 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 18:27:28 +0100
Subject: Python for 8/16 Bit MSDOS ( 486 / 586 / K5 / K6/ Beck-IPC )
 processors.
References: <418B6158.3C7BD9B1@iee.lu> <y8hgv6h3.fsf@python.net>
	<fgfs52-htl.ln1@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <k6t0ury7.fsf@python.net>

claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird) writes:

> In article <y8hgv6h3.fsf at python.net>,
> Thomas Heller  <theller at python.net> wrote:
>>Manfred Schwab <msw at iee.lu> writes:
>>
>>> Hi there,
>>> which versions of python are usable under MS-DOS 5.0 oder 6.22 or Dr.
>>> DOS.
>>>
>>> I want to use it under a industrial environment to collect measuring
>>> data like temperature, moist and signalconditions with a Beck industrial
>>> PC. Did somebody try this already ? Is there a certain URL where i can
>>> get further information.
>>
>>I severely doubt the Beck-IPC has enough memory for that.
>>
>>Thomas
>
> I like the challenges of working with unusual hosts.  Let's 
> go through this a bit more slowly.
>
> I have no doubt that getting 2.3 to work on a Beck is ...
> quixotic.  However, there are a lot of alternatives.  Earlier,
> smaller versions of Python were thriftier with memory (or per-
> haps less ambitious).  If the goal is enough Python to collect
> data as you describe, you might well be able to generate your
> own Python from a 1.2 or 1.3 series that works adequately.
>
> Does anyone maintain a museum of old Pythons?  These turn out
> to be both valuable and relatively modest in effort.  I have
> too many other unfinished projects now to launch another ...

ftp://ftp.python.org/pub/python/src/ has them, starting with 1.0.1.

>
> If you're simply looking for a good way to do development on
> a Beck, several other languages (Lua, TinyTcl, Forth, ...)
> are likely both to fit and to satisfy at least most of your
> affection for high-level programming.

Thomas


From davecook at nowhere.net  Sun Nov 21 14:56:49 2004
From: davecook at nowhere.net (Dave Cook)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:56:49 GMT
Subject: Help for newbie
References: <419f06a8$0$32335$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <slrncq1so1.4m6.davecook@localhost.localdomain>

On 2004-11-20, Leuk <jlnespoulous at netscape.net> wrote:

> I would like to use ZODB, but I'm a newbie in Python, so I do not know if it 
> be more easy for me to use PostgreSQL.

They are quite different beasties.  ZODB is an object database (based on
trees of objects), whereas Postgres is relational (based on tables).  Using
ZODB with your own object model is fairly transparent, whereas with any SQL
database you have to write to and read from tables.  However, there are
Object-Relation mappers for Python like SQLObject: 

http://www.sqlobject.org 

ZODB only provides the database "engine", whereas Postgres has both server
and client components.  ZODB is much easier to set up than Postgres (really,
you just install ZODB and go; Postgres requires a little more administration
than that).  ZODB provides no built-in indexing and query ability
AFAIK, so you may want to install something like IndexedCatalog:

http://www.async.com.br/projects/IndexedCatalog/

Dave Cook


From nick at craig-wood.com  Thu Nov 18 05:30:22 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 10:30:22 GMT
Subject: Rationals?
References: <x73bz7na6r.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<mailman.6526.1100749612.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncpotck.j3t.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Tim Peters <tim.peters at gmail.com> wrote:
>  PS:  If you simply want to *use* a high-powered rational type,
>  download gmpy and be happy tonight.

I was just about to chip in with that!

  http://gmpy.sourceforge.net/

gmpy is really good (I've used it for some numerical experiments).
Its very fast and very easy to use and has very good infinite
precision integers (mpz, rationals mpq and floats mpf)

However it still seems to be in alpha after its last release more than
one year ago?

>>> import gmpy
>>> a = gmpy.mpq(1)
>>> a / 3
mpq(1,3)
>>> a = gmpy.mpq(22, 7)
>>> a
mpq(22,7)
>>> float(a)
3.1428571428571428
>>> a * 113/355  
mpq(2486,2485)
>>> gmpy.sqrt(a)
mpz(1)
>>> gmpy.fsqrt(a)
mpf('1.77281052085583665659e0')
>>> gmpy.mpf(a, 100)
mpf('3.142857142857142857142857142857142857141e0',100)
>>> def e(digits = 100, zero = 0.0):
...     sum = zero
...     i = zero + 1
...     n = 1
...     epsilon = (zero + 10) ** -digits
...     while i > epsilon:
...         sum += i
...         i = i / n
...         n += 1
...     return sum
... 
>>> 
>>> print e(25, 0.0)
2.71828182846
>>> print e(25, gmpy.mpf(0, 100))
2.718281828459045235360287404308329607628
>>> print e(25, gmpy.mpq(0))
337310723185584470837549/124089680346647887872000

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From mdraghi at prosud.com  Mon Nov 15 13:44:37 2004
From: mdraghi at prosud.com (Mariano Draghi)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 15:44:37 -0300
Subject: save a dictionary in a file
In-Reply-To: <2vsa8hF2oa58tU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2vsa8hF2oa58tU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cnatb6$nuf$1@sea.gmane.org>

Luis P. Mendes wrote:
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hi,
> 
> my program builds a dictionary that I would like to save in a file.
> 
> My question is what are the simple ways to do it?

We implemented this for SiGeFi (sf.net/projects/sigefi/)

 From config.py

class PersistentDict(dict):
     '''Persistent dictionary.

     It's a dictionary that saves and loads its data to a file.
     '''

     def __init__(self, nomarchivo):
         '''Creates a PersistentDict instance.

         Receives a filename, but if the file does not exist (yet) 
starts to work
         with an empty data set and will create the file when the data 
is saved.

         :Parameters:
             - `nomarchivo`: file where the data is saved.
         '''
         self._nomarchivo = nomarchivo
         dict.__init__(self)

         if not os.access(nomarchivo, os.W_OK):
             return

         arch = open(nomarchivo, 'r')
         olddict = cPickle.load(arch)
         arch.close()
         self.update(olddict)
         return

     def save(self):
         '''Saves the data to disk.'''
         arch = open(self._nomarchivo, 'w')
         cPickle.dump(self, arch)
         arch.close()
         return



Regards,

-- 
Mariano



From alia_khouri at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  1 16:23:31 2004
From: alia_khouri at yahoo.com (Alia Khouri)
Date: 1 Nov 2004 13:23:31 -0800
Subject: Python in Free Music Software
References: <40a939c9.0410291820.fada696@posting.google.com>	<40a939c9.0410310827.112f13a1@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5751.1099298283.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40a939c9.0411011323.71f8d765@posting.google.com>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

> Why not post this list on the main Python Wiki? It seems something
> nice to have there...

Done. http://www.python.org/moin/PythonInMusic

AK


From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Nov 17 15:26:35 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:26:35 +0100
Subject: imaplib ... understanding the result from a fetch of RFC822s
Message-ID: <419bb3a7$0$259$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

I am using the fetch command from the imaplib to fetch messages. I get a 
result, but I am a bit uncertain as to how I should interpret it.

The result is described at http://pydoc.org/2.3/imaplib.html as::

(typ, [data, ...]) = <instance>.fetch(message_set, message_parts)

In RFC 2060 it says: "The data items to be fetched can be either a 
single atom or a parenthesized list."

So I do a fetch like:

     mailconn.uid('fetch', '1:*', '(RFC822)')

As a result I receive the following results (from 2 different servers):

# mailserver 1
messages = [
     ('1 (UID 2 RFC822 {616}', "Received: from SNIP..."),
     ')',
     ('2 (UID 4 RFC822 {626}', "Received: from SNIP..."),
     ')',
]

# mailserver 2

messages = [
     ('1 (RFC822 {1155}', "Return-path: SNIP..."),
     ' UID 1)',
     ('2 (RFC822 {977}', "Return-path: SNIP..."),
     ' UID 2)',
     ('3 (RFC822 {1016}', "Return-path: SNIP..."),
     ' UID 3)',
     ('4 (RFC822 {1153}', "Return-path: SNIP..."),
     ' UID 4)',
     ('5 (RFC822 {732}', 'Mime-Version: SNIP...'),
     ' UID 5)',
]

It's just a long list which seems to have the structure:

list = [
     (envelope start, rfc288-message), envelope-end,
     (envelope start, rfc288-message), envelope-end,
     (envelope start, rfc288-message), envelope-end,
]

To me this is an odd format. It's sort of a parenthesized list, but not 
really.

I guess that I can iterate it like:

for ((envelopeStart, msg), envelopeEnd) in range(0, len(messages), 2):
     # do stuff

But I feel a bit uncertain that it won't break in some edge cases.

Does anybody have a clue as to why imaplib returns results like that?


-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Nov 25 13:36:44 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 19:36:44 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.23.07.09.08.229463@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<zn18e7pm.fsf@telus.net> <30ijkhF31dg9sU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<oehnyvka.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.25.05.36.21.76065@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<3byxq0a1.fsf@telus.net>
Message-ID: <co58no$7hb$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Lenard Lindstrom wrote:

> Is this Andreas Heiljberg which you mentioned in an earlier posting to
> this thread?

"Name ist Schall und Rauch", but:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Hejlsberg

Peter



From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil  Sun Nov  7 21:03:51 2004
From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Lou Pecora)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 21:03:51 -0500
Subject: Installed MacPython 10.3 Addons - Can't find Modules,
	even standard ones.
References: <pecora-03E3B5.09264507112004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<mailman.6083.1099849425.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pecora-08B53F.21035107112004@ra.nrl.navy.mil>

In article <mailman.6083.1099849425.5135.python-list at python.org>,
 Serge Rey <serge at rohan.sdsu.edu> wrote:

> 
> did you install Numeric via the PackageManager in MacPython?

Yes, did that.  I think the older MacPythons automatically had Numeric, 
but not so now.  Thanks.  That's working, but trig functions still seem 
to be unknown to Python.  Can't understand that.

-- Lou Pecora  (my views are my own)


From bradtilley at gmail.com  Sat Nov 20 21:21:27 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 21:21:27 -0500
Subject: instances v. threads
In-Reply-To: <pmund.18309$Vk6.8463@twister.nyc.rr.com>
References: <cnlq48$qf7$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<pmund.18309$Vk6.8463@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <419FFBA7.6060009@gmail.com>

Rob Snyder wrote:
> Brad Tilley wrote:
> 
> 
>>I've just started using classes in Python for some projects at work and
>>have a few questions about them. I understand that once a class is
>>defined that I can create many instances of it like this:
>>
>>class xyz:
>>    def one():
>>       pass
>>    def two ():
>>       pass
>>    def three():
>>       pass
>>
>>a = xyz()
>>b = xyz()
>>c = xyz()
>>
>>a.one()
>>b.one()
>>c.one()
>>c.two()
>>c.three()
>>
>>How does asynchronous/threaded programming differ from OO programming
>>and classes? C is not OO and has no classes, but one can write threaded
>>programs in C, right? Perhaps I'm totally off on this... can some
>>explain how these concepts differ? Exactly how is an 'instance'
>>different from a 'thread'?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Brad
> 
> 
> Heya Brad -
> 
> Looks like you're confusing two unrelated things. 
> 
> I'm not sure what you know about either thing, so forgive me if I am too
> basic in my attempt at explaining.
> 
> Take two simple Python statements:
> 
> a = "123"
> b = "456"
> 
> What have I? A variable named a that has the str data "123" in it, and one
> named B that has the str data "456" in it. Two variables (or "objects") set
> aside in memory, each storing a different value. You'd agree that the
> second line that sets the variable "b" does *not* create a new thread, or
> unit of execution, right?
> 
> Of course not. If this was my whole program, I'd have, effectively, one
> thread - the process itself, and two variables. 
> 
> Think of "instances" the same exact way. In your example above, the lines
> 
> 
>>a = xyz()
>>b = xyz()
>>c = xyz()
> 
> 
> create three new variables, each assigned to a new copy of your class xyz.
> When you call a method in xyz, such as a.one(), you are *not* creating a
> new thread. The program calls this method just as with any function, and
> when the function or method is done, it returns to your mainline code.
> 
> In other words, in your code example,
> 
> 
>>a.one()
>>b.one()
>>c.one()
>>c.two()
>>c.three()
> 
> 
> each of these executes *in turn*, not simultaneously. 
> 
> Now, suppose your class really looked like this:
> 
> class xyz:
>         def one(stuff):
>                 self.data = stuff
> 
> and I did
> 
> a = xyz()
> b = xyz()
> c = xyz()
> 
> then followed it up with
> 
> a.one("Hello, I am instance A!")
> 
> What is the value of a.data? "Hello, I am instance A!", of course. And the
> value of b.data and c.data? Not yet defined.
> 
> In my example, I have three instances of class xyz, and each has it's own
> private data. But that's it - each one does *not* create it's own thread;
> they do not execute asynchronously. 
> 
> If you're used to C programming, imagine classes as being similar to
> structs, just with the ability to include functions as well as data. 
> 
> Along the same lines, if I wanted to have multiple threads active, I'd have
> to create them, using any language that has a threading library (C does,
> Python does, Java does, etc.). I can certainly use classes and instances in
> my threads, but the two are not the similar concepts.
> 
> Make any sense?
> 
> Rob

Thanks Rob, that makes a lot of sense. I thought that instances ran 
simultaneously, not sequentially. Your explanation was right on... I 
understand how to think about instances now.


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Wed Nov 10 13:28:05 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:28:05 -0700
Subject: "Rails"-like thing for Python?
In-Reply-To: <cmtlas$7r2$1@newslocal.mitre.org>
References: <cmtlas$7r2$1@newslocal.mitre.org>
Message-ID: <41925DB5.70208@pythonapocrypha.com>

Jeff Blaine wrote:
> Like many people, I've recently been turned onto "Ruby On Rails"
> (I believe it was a Slashdot article release announcement
> recently) and didn't know it existed before then.
> 
> I've been writing Python code for 6 years now, on and off, and
> I have to say I am leaning more and more toward at least learning
> Ruby and doing my next few projects with it.
> 
> I am curious if there is anything like the Rails framework for
> Python?  Specifically, I mean a generalized framework for
> rapidly performing web application building.  One that does it
> consistently, well, etc.  Zope is far from what I mean.

Why not get a few volunteers together and just port it? It's only about 24k 
lines of code - and since Python and Ruby are relatively "close" languages, a 
lot of that could probably be a line-by-line translation into Python.

Get the group to agree to 0 changes in functionality and each person can proceed 
almost independently (heck, I'll sign up to port a few files if somebody wants 
to manage a list of who is assigned to what).

Or, if you try Ruby and end up liking it, you're done. ;-) (I did try it, but 
really, really didn't like it)

-Dave


From caleb1 at telkomsa.net  Thu Nov 25 21:52:17 2004
From: caleb1 at telkomsa.net (Caleb Hattingh)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 21:52:17 -0500
Subject: dictionary initialization
References: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<opsh1u2sow1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
	<slrncqcchi.i1p.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<opsh1wrqdr1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
Message-ID: <opsh1wxfkx1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>

And I haven't even been drinking!

I apologise once more, this is better:

  ***
  # You *must* use a={}, just start as below
  '>>> a={}
  '>>> a['1']=0
  '>>> a['1']+=1
  '>>> a
  {'1': 1}
  ***

  Like I said, I am unsure of what your specific problem is?

  Thanks
  Caleb



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 12:40:03 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:40:03 GMT
Subject: inserting bracketings into a string
In-Reply-To: <cnfe4d$san$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
References: <mailman.6460.1100648300.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cnfe4d$san$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <S1Mmd.51545$5K2.31181@attbi_s03>

Eddie Corns wrote:
> def insert_bracketings (txt, spans):
>     text = list(txt)
>     for tg,start,end in spans:
>         text[start] = '[%s %s'%(tg,text[start])
>         text[end-1] = '%s]'%text[end-1]
>     return ''.join(text)
> 
> print insert_bracketings('abcde fgh ijklmnop qrstu vw xyz',[('A', 0, 9), ('B', 6, 9), ('C', 25, 31)])
> 
> Might not give what you expect if two spans start at the same place but you
> haven't defined that.

If two spans start in the same place, I need them both to appear, but 
the order is not important, so I believe your code here should work 
fine.  Very nice, thank you!

Steve


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Nov  4 08:15:10 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 14:15:10 +0100
Subject: (omniorb) Corba using with python
References: <cmd94e$83v$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cmda0t$idt$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Birgit Rahm wrote:

> 
> Hello newsgroup,
> 
> is this the right group to ask about the logging of Corba while
> usingomniORB for Python?

There is a dedicated omniorb mailing list - maybe its better to subscribe
there:
http://www.omniorb-support.com/mailman/listinfo/omniorb-list

However, I've seen Duncan Grisby posting here, so maybe he'll answer you.

> I know that there are 3 funktions in the Corba package.
> But I dont know, where I can tell the python on which file I what to log.
> This is what I want.

I have no idea what you want - there is the /etc/omniORB4.cfg where you can
set trace levels. They seem to appear on stdout or stderr, I'm not sure as
I never tried to pipe them. Does that help you?
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From ed at leafe.com  Fri Nov 19 15:12:31 2004
From: ed at leafe.com (Ed Leafe)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:12:31 -0500
Subject: Importing files other than *.py
In-Reply-To: <20041119131042.4d0507c5.ods@strana.ru>
References: <40050B97-39BE-11D9-B38F-003065B11E84@leafe.com>
	<20041119131042.4d0507c5.ods@strana.ru>
Message-ID: <57EC9230-3A67-11D9-B38F-003065B11E84@leafe.com>

On Nov 19, 2004, at 5:10 AM, Denis S. Otkidach wrote:

> Yes, it's possible:
>
> [snip]

> fp = open('burp.zz', 'U')
>>>> import imp
>>>> module = imp.load_module('burp', fp, 'burp.zz', ('.py', 'U', 1))
>>>> module
> <module 'burp' from 'burp.zz'>
>>>> module.f
> <function f at 0x307a04>
>>>> module.f()
> OK

	Cool! I had tried several variations, but couldn't get imp to import 
the module properly. This worked, though. Thanks for your help.

      ___/
     /
    __/
   /
  ____/
  Ed Leafe
  http://leafe.com/
  http://dabodev.com/



From cabria at fta.uva.es  Tue Nov  9 18:23:38 2004
From: cabria at fta.uva.es (Iván Cabria)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 18:23:38 MET
Subject: sh: test: argument expected and os.environ
Message-ID: <200411091723.iA9HNba4027939@relay.uva.es>

Hi, 
 
thanks to Jeff Epler for the answer. 
 
I have tried his suggestion and I have added two lines after the  
first line in the python script: 
import os 
os.environ['SHELL'] = "/bin/bash" 
 
 
The first three lines of the python script are now: 
#!/usr/bin/env python 
import os 
os.environ['SHELL'] = "/bin/bash" 
 
 
I have run the script and I have got the same message error than before: 
sh: test: argument expected 
 
 
 
Iv?n




From programmer.py at gmail.com  Thu Nov 11 15:04:56 2004
From: programmer.py at gmail.com (Jaime Wyant)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:04:56 -0600
Subject: I don't quite get this "string".find()
In-Reply-To: <1f7befae04111111571b3a88ca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d52c72d2041111113644284154@mail.gmail.com>
	<1f7befae04111111571b3a88ca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d52c72d204111112045bb6758d@mail.gmail.com>

Ahh, I see it now.  It seems strange to me, but your find helped make
sense of it.

I guess I thought:

1) an empty string is like "nothing"
2) you can never find "nothing" in something

But  I guess an empty string isn't nothing, but a string with no
length.  Ahh, it's still darned strange :).

Thanks though!
jw

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:57:12 -0500, Tim Peters <tim.peters at gmail.com> wrote:
> [Jaime Wyant]
> 
> 
> > Will someone explain this to me?
> >
> > >>> "test".find("")
> > 0
> >
> > Why is the empty string found at position 0?
> 
> Because index 0 is the smallest index at which "" is found:
> 
> >>> "test"[0:0] == ""
> True
> 
> As a string method, find() acts like this (skipping obfuscating optimizations):
> 
>     def find(haystack, needle):
>         for i in range(len(haystack)):
>             if haystack[i : i+len(needle)] == needle:
>                 return i
>         return -1
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Sat Nov 27 10:21:20 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 10:21:20 -0500
Subject: Packing up zope+products as an exe?
In-Reply-To: <583afd79.0411251701.28d8ca60@posting.google.com>
References: <583afd79.0411251701.28d8ca60@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ifydnfz2LZPtBjXcRVn-og@giganews.com>

Arsalan wrote:

> Is it possible to bundle up a couple of products + zope as a single,
> easily distributable .exe? 

No.


From ossix at ossix.net  Sat Nov 13 19:30:45 2004
From: ossix at ossix.net (steven alyari)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:30:45 -0700
Subject: IMAP4 example in docs causes memory error for me (OS X 10.3, 
In-Reply-To: <95E7BF30-35D3-11D9-800B-000A95DBE2DA@ossix.net>
References: <95E7BF30-35D3-11D9-800B-000A95DBE2DA@ossix.net>
Message-ID: <6C50CAA0-35D4-11D9-800B-000A95DBE2DA@ossix.net>

seems like i have a slight work around to this issue, which is to use 
try and except and to also reinit the imap instance every time you want 
to get a message... this limits the error to only larger messages. but 
it's still weird.

thanks,steven

On Nov 13, 2004, at 5:24 PM, steven alyari wrote:

> just to follow up, it seems that every message after the 115th message 
> has this issue
>
> though i don't know what this means just yet.
>
> steven
>



From maney at pobox.com  Tue Nov  2 00:26:34 2004
From: maney at pobox.com (Martin Maney)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 05:26:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ruby on rails ... python on ?
References: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>
	<mailman.5772.1099330973.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cm75qa$5o2$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> OTOH, I'd love to see something in Python that is just as tight as 
> Rails, but uses all the pieces we've already developed.  It's really 
> just a question of sticking pieces together; but that's a surprisingly 
> difficult operation.

I don't know why that would be surprising.  Integration has *always*
been one of the hardest parts of putting a large system together, so
when the parts weren't designed to fit each other in the forst place...

-- 
One Zone to rule them all, One Zone to find them,
One Zone to name them all and in the domain bind them,
In the Land of DotCom where the Spammers lie.


From none.by.e-mail  Sun Nov  7 18:09:02 2004
From: none.by.e-mail (Mike Thompson)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 10:09:02 +1100
Subject: interning strings
In-Reply-To: <cmldpr$p0q$01$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <418e1e69$0$15438$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
	<cmldpr$p0q$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <418eab10$0$13356$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>


[snip very useful explanation]

> 
> By the way, why would you want to mess with these implementation details?
> Use the == operator to compare strings and be happy ever after :-)
> 

'==' won't help me, I'm afraid.

I need to improve the speed and memory footprint of an application which 
reads in a very large XML document.

Some elements in the incoming documents can be filtered out, so I've 
written my own SAX handler to extract just what I want. All the same, 
the content being read in is substantial.

So, to further reduce memory footprint, my SAX handler tries to manually 
intern (using dicts of strings) a lot of the duplicated content and 
attributes coming from the XML documents. Also, I use the SAX feature 
'feature_string_interning' to hopefully intern the strings used for 
attribute names etc.

Which is all working fine, except that now, as a final process, I'd like 
to understand interning a bit more.

 From your explanation there seems to be no language rules, just 
implementation accidents.  And none of those will be particularly 
helpful in my case.

However, I still think I'm going to try using the builtin 'intern' 
rather than my own dict cache. That may provide an advantage, even if it 
doesn't work with unicode.

--
Mike


From JSmuts at clover.co.za  Fri Nov 26 05:44:05 2004
From: JSmuts at clover.co.za (Jaco Smuts)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:44:05 +0200
Subject: automated windows install
Message-ID: <OF78B1BD39.2766AA70-ON42256F58.003A8620-42256F58.003AF807@clover.co.za>

Hello there.


Is there a way to automate selections for the windows python installer. ( 
ie. --directory=d:\usr\python234 -compile=yes -archive=no)


Being facetitious. Becuase I mostly develop on windows (work laptop) I 
often rebuild my machine. I like to do as much as possible from scripts, 
hence the question is there a way to automate selections for the windows 
python installer. 

I prefer installing the distro from python.org and adding the win32 and 
other modules myself. But that's the next step.

thanks a lot

jaco


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From burntbit at earthlink.net  Wed Nov 24 01:00:35 2004
From: burntbit at earthlink.net (J Black)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 06:00:35 GMT
Subject: Help... Use Shelve in CGI script?  -- Nevermind
Message-ID: <7sVod.11849$Qh3.1068@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>

Hello,

  I recently came across the shelve module and fell in love with it.  It
works fine on the command line... But when I put the same code into the cgi
script it crashes everytime.  Here's the output from the cgi crash.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/www/cgi-bin/test.cgi", line 8, in ?
    db = shelve.open("register", "c")
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/shelve.py", line 231, in open
    return DbfilenameShelf(filename, flag, protocol, writeback, binary)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/shelve.py", line 212, in __init__
    Shelf.__init__(self, anydbm.open(filename, flag), protocol, writeback,
binar
y)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/anydbm.py", line 83, in open
    return mod.open(file, flag, mode)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/dbhash.py", line 16, in open
    return bsddb.hashopen(file, flag, mode)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/bsddb/__init__.py", line 192, in hashopen
    d.open(file, db.DB_HASH, flags, mode)
bsddb._db.DBAccessError: (13, 'Permission denied')
Exception exceptions.AttributeError: "DbfilenameShelf instance has no
attribute
'writeback'" in  ignored
[Wed Nov 24 00:49:37 2004] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] Premature end of
script he
aders: /var/www/cgi-bin/test.cgi

---------

Now this line bsddb._db.DBAccessError: (13, 'Permission denied') says
permission denied.  How do I get the permission to use it in my cgi script
for the Apache web server?  I tried already having a valid... oh wait.  I
got it.

The way I just got it working is as follows.  I generated a database file in
my home folder. (Cause another error I was getting was wrong database
lookup).  So I took this working database file and put it in my cgi
directory.  Then to make it work I changed it to world readable and
writable.  Then the cgi script ran just fine :-).


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov 22 08:50:52 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:50:52 -0500
Subject: [Beginner] delete items of [] also from memory
In-Reply-To: <cnsgm1$u3f$01$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <cns50t$5ip$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<41a1a1da$0$8190$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<cnsgm1$u3f$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <41A1EEBC.6010902@holdenweb.com>

Birgit Rahm wrote:

>> But...  And if you try ?
>>
> 
> I tryed A = [].
> And  I think thats why my RAM is filling up. But I dont know if this is the
> problem. So I asked.
> Is del A[0:] the better or an equal solution?
> Birgit
> 
The two solutions are pretty much equal, the only (insignificant) 
difference being that a new empty list is created when you use A = [].

In either case the memory occupied by the elements of the list will all 
become available for garbage collection, and hence for the creation of 
new Python objects.

It will *not*, however, be returned to the operating system, so your 
process's memory footprint will remain at the high water mark set when 
you were using maximum memory for referenced objects.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From a-steinhoff at web.de  Mon Nov 29 04:02:35 2004
From: a-steinhoff at web.de (Armin Steinhoff)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:02:35 +0100
Subject: Protecting Python source
In-Reply-To: <f4a45085.0411260701.5859bf43@posting.google.com>
References: <f4a45085.0411260701.5859bf43@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <coeoj8$kr0$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Alan Sheehan wrote:
> Hi pythonistas,
> 
> I am looking for methods of deploying applications with end users so
> that the python code is tamper proof. What are my options ?
> 
> I understand I can supply .pyc or .pyo files but they can easily be
> reverse engineered I am told.
> 
> Is it possible to load the scripts from zip files where the zip files
> are password protected ?
> 
> Any other ideas ?

Use Pyrex in order to convert the critical parts to C modules ...

Regards

   Armin



> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> Alan


From calmar at calmar.ws  Sun Nov 14 13:40:39 2004
From: calmar at calmar.ws (calmar)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:40:39 +0100
Subject: using python on the command line with 'here-documents' and pipes
References: <slrncpf4ga.1u7.calmar@news.calmar.ws>
	<pan.2004.11.14.23.38.53.461566@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <slrncpf9l7.b4m.calmar@news.calmar.ws>

On 2004-11-14, Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:


hi,

> Can you post a working example for awk? I'll admit I'm not a shell
> expert,
> but it seems like you are trying to stuff two files onto stdin, the
> "echo"
> result and the python program. I don't understand how that could ever
> work, and now you've piqued my curiosity.
>

Well, it would be something like (easy example):

echo -e 'line1\nline2\nline3' | python -c '
import sys
for line in sys.stdin:
        print line'

That works now (with bash). I get the text into python and can do there
whatever I want. Awk/Sed/grep or whatever kind of tasks.

My problem, I didn't find the solution to just write the code after the
-c '...' including newlines. Sooo easy, but I didn't find that solution
(not even after hours doing curious stuff:)

Cheers
calmar

PS: would there be a smarter way to get the
stdin lines into a loop?

-- 
  calmar
          (o_  It rocks: LINUX + Command-Line-Interface
          //\
          V_/_                     http://www.calmar.ws


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov  8 16:12:39 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 22:12:39 +0100
Subject: generic way to access C++ libs?
References: <slrnconbh3.t9i.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmgcp1$hpk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncong4u.1tk.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cmggel$t2o$01$1@news.t-online.com> <2va4n2F2h8f1tU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cmong2$cpl$01$1@news.t-online.com>

> There's a C++ ABI standard on Linux now (maybe it covers other Unixish
> platforms too). GCC-3.x supports it and also the Intel compiler supports
> it. That's how you can now use (link) libraries compiled with some gcc-3.x
> compiler to a program compiled with Intel's compilers or vice versa.
> 
> Though, some of the early gcc-3.0 compilers may not be 100% C++ ABI
> compliant. There were some bugs there.

Interesting to hear that they work on these shortcomings of c++. From what
google told me, it looks as if this stuff is defined for Itanium processors
only - do you know if its also used for x86 systems?
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Tue Nov 23 20:22:28 2004
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 17:22:28 -0800
Subject: Pure Python JPEG parser
References: <6r6pp018glonqu2kqeau5ru9nhfj9fpchv@4ax.com><419d002e$1@nntp0.pdx.net>	<cnmtud$3rm$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
	<mailman.6688.1101118194.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cnsk9a$gv8$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> <co00td$i26$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
Message-ID: <5c882bb5.0411231722.374f0486@posting.google.com>

David Fraser:
> Image Size          |  Standard Python  |  Psyco
> photo, 2048 x 1536  |  32 minutes       |  46 seconds
> cartoon, 604 x 446  |  16 seconds       |  4 seconds

It's a cute toy; Tkinter can be used to (slowly) show the jpeg image.
(I think there is a bug for images with sides not divisible by 8.)

Bearophile


From eddie at kickingdragon.com  Sun Nov 14 01:24:45 2004
From: eddie at kickingdragon.com (Eddie Parker)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 23:24:45 -0700
Subject: .pyc files...
Message-ID: <E1CTDp7-00050j-00@galvatron.kickingdragon.com>

OK, stupid question, but it?s been bothering me for ages.. :-)

 

I love Python to bits, but .pyc files always litter my source tree, and
they?ve always bothered me. I haven?t used Python in a while, so I?m not
sure if this has been implemented, or if it?s even possible ? but is it
possible to change the default location where .pyc files get generated?

 

i.e., could I make .pyc files get generated to ?./intermediate?, or
something? Instead of in the same directory as my source?

 

 

Eddie ?Clean Freak? Parker. :-)

 

-e-


---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 11/1/2004
 
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From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Nov 18 15:52:26 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:52:26 -0500
Subject: CGI and logging module
In-Reply-To: <419d0a70$0$221$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
References: <419d0a70$0$221$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
Message-ID: <cnj256$gmt$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Peter Mott wrote:
> I am using:
> 
> Python 2.3.4 (#2, Nov 14 2004, 18:06:48)
> [GCC 2.95.4 20020320 [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4
> 
> with Apache/1.3.26. The following script causes an Internal Server Error 
> (with nothing in the Apache error logs AFAIK):
> 
> #!/usr/local/bin/python
> 
> import logging
> 
> print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"
> print "<html><head><title></title></head><body><h1>OK</h1>"""
> print "</body></html>"
> 
> The same script with the import statement commented out works as expected. 
> Has anyone encountered this? I have googled without success.

Can't help on the specific problem, but two points:

1. You are supposed to be returning \r\n, I believe, not just
\n between lines.

2. If you want to see what is going wrong, put a try/except
around the import statement and try to write something useful
along with your results:

err = ''
try:
    import logging
except Exception, ex:
    err = str(ex)

print 'Content-type: test/html\r\n\r\n'
blah blah blah
print '<p>Error: %s</p>\r\n'

If you can manage to import the sys and traceback modules,
you can get a more fully formatted exception using
''.join(traceback.format_exception(*sys.exc_info()))

-Peter


From spammers-go-here at spam.invalid  Wed Nov 24 12:03:30 2004
From: spammers-go-here at spam.invalid (Madhusudan Singh)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 12:03:30 -0500
Subject: Book recommendation
References: <30ictaF2vhlgoU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<H7ydnapI1aZJAjncRVn-vQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <30jt2aF31n13eU2@uni-berlin.de>

Larry Bates wrote:

> If you are running on Windows, "Python Programming on Win32"
> is a must buy/read.
> 

Thanks for your response. Fortunately, I inhabit a windows free world :)

> I also liked "Python Bible" a lot.

I will look into it.


From klapotec at chello.at  Fri Nov  5 03:16:28 2004
From: klapotec at chello.at (Christopher Koppler)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 08:16:28 GMT
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.05.08.16.27.729597@chello.at>

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 07:11:33 +0000, Maurice LING wrote:

> What I need to work on now is something that requires speed (and dealing 
> with files), without user's intervention. So the part about users' delay 
> time is not in the equation. My choices boils down to Python or Java.

Speed in what area? Dealing with files, is it a heavily I/O-based program?
If so, choice of programming language will very probably hardly impact
performance (well, depending of course on exactly you want to do, there
may of course be differences...).
Or do you want to crunch numbers? Python has great extensions for that,
written in highly optimized C. Come to think of it, Python has great
built-in datatypes and extensions for all manner of things, written in
highly optimized C. So even if your application wants to do some heavy
processing of <whatever> that doesn't depend on external factors like I/O
speed, the network or user interaction, Python will generally be fast
enough.
And as for the statically typed nature of Java providing speed benefits,
take a look at Psyco, which often (but not always) helps enormously.

So everything boils down to two points: what exactly you want to do - if
you can tell us that, someone better qualified and less biased than
myself might actually be able to offer you concrete advice on what to
choose - and as always: premature optimization is the root of all evil :-)

-- 
Christopher



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  7 09:39:52 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 15:39:52 +0100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c718a6cf.0411061137.683823ec@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6022.1099784038.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gmvzaj.arlim341zhoqN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Maurice LING <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote:

> > 
> > dude that "comparision" from twistedmatrix you refrence is ANCIENT!!!
> 
> I am wondering the impact when IBM decided that the base memory to not
> exceed 64kb, in the late 1960s...

??? IBM in the '60s was developing the then-revolutionary concept of a
*family of computers* -- several models able to run the same codes with
different performance and price.  "360 degrees computing", whence came
the idea of calling that family "IBM 360".  Out of the 32 bits of a
register's width, only 24 bits were in fact used for addressing, so the
limit was *16 megabytes* of base memory -- 40 years ago, that not only
SEEMED huge, it WAS huge.  To the point that Motorola in the late
'70s/early '80s took exactly the same architectural decision regarding
*their* (less-revolutionary...) 16-bit microprocessor, the 68000: again
32-bit registers, but, again, 24-bit addresses.  The point being that,
about 15+ years later (10 doublings by Moore's Law!!!), IBM's crucial
architectural decision STILL seemed quite reasonable, albeit when
thinking of microcomputers rather than mainframes.

If you're thinking of IBM PC's, the key architectural decision there had
come from intel (8086 then 8088), again in the late '70s, and it _was_
way too restrictive -- just 1MB of addressability (in 64-k segments), vs
the unsegmented 16 MB of IBM earlier and Motorola at about the same
time.  IBM when designing the IBM PC shortly afterwards decided to pick
1/3 of that MB for I/O and special extension cards' memories rather than
general base RAM -- leaving 640K, not 64K!, for the latter -- and the
difference betwen 640K and 1MB never really had any big impact.

The machines with 64-K byte limits I know of were early 16-bit minis
(such as PDP-11, despite later kludges to push that limit up) and just
about all 8-bit micros (intel, Motorola, and just about all others).


> > it is comparing versions that are YEARS out of date and use!
> 
> Are the codebase of Python 1.5.2 and Java 1.1 totally replaced and 
> deprecated?

No, there's a lot of code from that era still working happily.

> Lisp compiler is the 1st compiler to be created (according to the 
> Red-Dragon book, I think) and almost all others are created by 

I'm sure Aho, Hopcroft and Ullmann would never be so ignorant or
insensitive as to detract from Backus' (and IBM Research's) epoch-making
result in making the first production compiler -- exactly 50 years ago,
quite a bit earlier than LISP, for the language first known as Formula
Translation, a name which was soon shortened to ForTran.  Lisp has quite
some "first"s, but "first compiler" ain't among them.

> bootstrapping to LISP compiler. What are the implications of design 
> decisions made in LISP compiler then affecting our compilers today? I
> don't know. I repeat myself, I DO NOT KNOW.

I can't think of even a single one, although I fancy myself as quite
knowledgeable in the history of computing -- neither from Formula
Translation, nor from LISt Processor, not one design decision whose
implications are still affecting compilers being written today.  Same
goes for computers of the same era, the '50s.  If you move to the '60s
then some things do suggest themselves -- at least in computers: general
registers that are not part of the addressable memory, memory
addressable by the byte, 8-bit bytes with significant 16-bit and 32-bit
halfwords and fullwords too -- all parts of the IBM-360 legacy; not so
obvious in languages and compilers, maybe.  Maybe the concepts of
grammar, tokenizers and parsers -- all stuff that wasn't in evidence in
the '50s, at least not in ForTran or Lisp.  The ambitious concept of a
language good for all kinds of problems, commercial AND scientific, much
like IBM's "360 degrees computing" was breaking down the barriers
between scientific and commercial computers in the HW field.  The very
first emergence of "bytecodes", partly from trying to emulate yet-older
computers on those of the time, to keep running old applications on new
hardware where IBM's revolutionary concept of "a family of computers"
didn't apply.  Pretty thin stuff, IMHO... you have to get to the '70s to
find the emergence of a more solid legacy, I think.


Alex


From mattiuzzo.r at tiscali.it  Thu Nov 25 14:16:43 2004
From: mattiuzzo.r at tiscali.it (Mattiuzzo Riccardo)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 20:16:43 +0100
Subject: Does anyone know of a Python WebDAV library?
In-Reply-To: <1101411087.30632.17.camel@odin>
References: <1101411087.30632.17.camel@odin>
Message-ID: <41A62F9B.60505@tiscali.it>

Hi,
    maybe 4Suite could be helpful for you.
Give a look to: http://4suite.org/index.xhtml

Ciao,
	Riccardo


Andrew James wrote:
> All,
> I've been trying to find a generic WebDAV library (possibly with the
> extra versioning extensions) in Python for a project I'm developing with
> mod_python. Ideally, I'm looking for one which which wraps around the
> XML and lets you instantiate classes for each request, like:
> 
>  req = PropFindRequest(myRequestText)
>  resp = PropFindResponse(files)
> 
> I've found two possibilities so far: 
> 
> http://comlounge.net/webdav/ - DAVServer
> 
> and
> 
> http://sandbox.xerox.com/webdav/ - Python WebDAV Server
> 
> Neither of these projects provides the sort of interface that I'm
> looking for, and neither seems to be currently maintained. I'd rather
> not roll my own library if I can avoid it - can anyone point me in the
> direction of some existing work or (preferably) a current project?
> 
> I will buy the owner of the winning response a drink should he/she ever
> come to London...
> 
> Many thanks.
> Andrew
> 



From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Nov  2 19:22:00 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 01:22:00 +0100
Subject: [ANN] pysqlite 2.0.alpha1
Message-ID: <20041103002200.GA15741@mylene.ghaering.de>

pysqlite 2.0.alpha1
===================

This is the first alpha release for the 2.0 branch. Python 2.3/2.4 and
SQLite 3.0 are required.

The changelog to 1.1 is easy:
What changed? All :-P

More seriously, it should be DB-API compliant. Which in itself doesn't
say very much about usefulness, but it has all the features that the
DB-API requires, plus a few optional ones.

In particular, it supports iterating over cursors:

    cu = cx.cursor()
    cu.execute("select ...")
    for row in cu:
        ...

PgResultSet is gone, and no advanced type system is implemented yet,
so only the types that SQLite supports work transparently now (int,
float, string, binary).

But for quite some applications, this should be enough. So please give
it a whirl :-)

Downloads (source and win32 binaries) at Sourceforge:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=54058&package_id=134545

-- Gerhard
-- 
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
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From ndbecker2 at verizon.net  Wed Nov  3 15:26:07 2004
From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal D. Becker)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:26:07 -0500
Subject: ANN: New configuration module released
References: <2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cmbet0$d51$1@sea.gmane.org>

Looks good so far.

The boost c++ library (about to be released) has a new program_options
parser.  One feature I appreciate in the design, is that the source of
options is seperated from the rest of the design.  This means that, out of
the box, it reads options from command line, from config files, and from
env variables.  Probably not hard to extend if anyone could think of a
reason.

I believe a decent config module should at least handle both config files
and command line options.  ENV variables are a nice touch too.



From mike at hobbshouse.org  Wed Nov  3 14:35:11 2004
From: mike at hobbshouse.org (Michael Hobbs)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:35:11 -0000
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
References: <cthoeigtdun.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
	<mailman.5825.1099416401.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cthk6t3tjcs.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
Message-ID: <10oicnfi26abged@corp.supernews.com>

Zunbeltz Izaola <zunbeltz at wm.lc.ehu.es.xxx> wrote:
> Ok, thanks for the help. But  I still have a problem. When the lines
> in the try block raise an exception it is saved in the traceback_quee
> and the thread is finished. Is that correct?. The problem is how do I
> inspect the queue? The function that creates the thread is something
> like that
> 
>    def OnMeasurement(self):
>        self.CurrentMeasurement.start()
> 
> If I put some code after the .start() method the queue will be
> empty. Do I need to insert a infinite loop to see when the exception
> is raised?

In addition to adding the exception to the queue, you should post
a custom event to the main window or wx.App. The callback bound to
that event would then read the exception out of the queue and print
it, raise it, send an email, whatever.

-- Mike


From danperl at rogers.com  Sun Nov 21 19:41:47 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:41:47 -0500
Subject: Small Database Needed
References: <mailman.6669.1101048884.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m7-dnTCpSK1MqDzcRVn-sA@rogers.com>

I haven't used it myself, but at some point when I was looking for a 
database I thought this was a very interesting alternative: 
http://www.equi4.com/metakit.html.  Eventually, I chose to forego databases 
and just pickle a data structure.  Take a look at it and maybe it will suit 
you.  On the other hand, I would like to hear any opinions from people who 
have used it, I may decide to use it myself someday.

Dan

"Kevin McBrearty" <kmcbrearty at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.6669.1101048884.5135.python-list at python.org...
> Hello All,
>
> I'm looking at implementing DB in my program for
> analysis of CAD (STL Files).  This database will
> require the basic functionality.
>
> Query
> Sort
> Delete/Add Records
>
>
> I did some looking at the DB packages out there. But,
> I'm not interseted in setuping up some huge thing.  It
> would be great if it is fast, but I can live with a
> sub-optimal solution for the present.  My interest is
> in getting it up and running.
>
> Since, I'm new to Python so please don't hold back on
> the comments.
>
> Regards,
>        Kevin
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
> 




From vinay_sajip at red-dove.com  Wed Nov  3 17:01:38 2004
From: vinay_sajip at red-dove.com (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 22:01:38 +0000
Subject: New configuration module released
In-Reply-To: <4d2dnXe5XY7bmxTcRVn-rw@rogers.com>
References: <2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840@posting.google.com>
	<4d2dnXe5XY7bmxTcRVn-rw@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <41895542.5000400@red-dove.com>

Dan,

> I'm posting some opinions I have on your module and on the topic in general 
> in this newsgroup, instead of using the links you have on your web page 
> (your email and a wiki) because I would like to see a wider discussion.

Fine.

> First, some small issues.  The syntax for your configuration is still fairly 
> close to the python syntax and it involves quite a bit of learning for both 
> python users and non-python users.  Your module would save me a little bit 
> of work in parsing when loading a configuration (remember, I am loading 
> configurations by importing them as a module) and a little more work than 
> that in formatting when saving a configuration.  That work is not very 
> significant though and having my own mechanism also has its advantages.

One important benefit of having Python-like syntax is that it is easy to
create a configuration programmatically, using just dicts and lists.
This is something that you cite below as a big issue for you.

In terms of learning - I'm not sure that python developers would have
any real problem with the basic syntax. For end users, it's a case of
unfamiliarity rather than intrinsic difficulty, IMO.

> Now, here is the biggest issue I have and what I would be extremely 
> interested in seeing in a configuration module.  I don't see from your 
> documentation how I could programmatically create a configuration from 
> scratch.  In my project I have a set of handlers and each handler has a 
> special configuration.  Each such special configuration is defined by a 
> structure of metadata (with information like name, type, description) that I 
> implemented myself.  That way, my GUI tool can load a handler dynamically, 
> read its configuration metadata, dynamically create a frame for the 
> handler's configuration, and save the new configuration to a file.

There are many ways you could do what you want to do. Without knowing
the details of your application, I can't give particularly good advice.
However, consider the following program:

from config import Config
from cStringIO import StringIO

root = { }
messages = [ ]
root['total_period'] = 100
root['test'] = True
root['another_test'] = False
root['yet_another_test'] = None
root['messages'] = messages
root['message'] = 'Hello, world!'
messages.append({ 'message' : 'Welcome', 'name' : 'Harry' })
messages.append({ 'message' : 'Welkom', 'name' : 'Ruud' })
messages.append({ 'message' : 'Bienvenue', 'name' : 'Yves' })

stream = StringIO()
print >> stream, root
value = stream.getvalue()
stream.close()

stream = StringIO(value[1:-2])
cfg = Config(stream)
cfg.save(file('test.txt', 'w'))

This shows how easy it is to programmatically construct a simple
configuration from scratch.

It would be easy for your configuration to hold a separate tree in the
configuration with the metadata. For example, you could construct a GUI
frame given a set of fields:

fields: [ title, firstname, surname, age, jobtitle ]
metadata: {
     title : { description: 'Salutation', type: choice,
	 values: [ [1, 'Mr.'], [2, 'Mrs.']] }
     firstname : { description: 'First name', type: text,
			max_length: 20 }
     surname : { description: 'Last name', type: text, max_length: 20 }
     age : { description: 'Age', type: int }
     jobtitle: { description: 'Job title', type: text }
}

Then you can easily loop through the fields.

from config import Config

cfg = Config(file('metadata.cfg'))

for fld in cfg.fields:
     metadata = cfg.get('metadata.' + fld)
     print "name = %r, type = %r, description = %r" %
          (fld, metadata.type, metadata.description)

with the result

name = 'title', type = 'choice', description = 'Salutation'
name = 'firstname', type = 'text', description = 'First name'
name = 'surname', type = 'text', description = 'Last name'
name = 'age', type = 'int', description = 'Age'
name = 'jobtitle', type = 'text', description = 'Job title'

I hope the above allows you to see the potential that the config module
has to meet your needs.

Best wishes,


Vinay Sajip




From andreas at kostyrka.org  Mon Nov 15 02:51:43 2004
From: andreas at kostyrka.org (Andreas Kostyrka)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 08:51:43 +0100
Subject: os.path.exists discrepancy
In-Reply-To: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E32451F4@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E32451F4@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <20041115075143.GA31649@kostyrka.org>

On Sun, Nov 14, 2004 at 11:47:18PM -0800, Robert Brewer wrote:
> <!-- scan image not found: u'S:/Scans/Projects/2004/TJ/04TJ0267.jpg' -->
> 
> As you can see, the two paths are equal. Prompting my reaction: bzuh? My
> next thought was to read through the os module source--perhaps the
> import of "path" was dependent on context. It is, but os.path.__file__
> is the same in both contexts: 'C:\\Python23\\lib\\ntpath.pyc'
> 
> Any ideas or workarounds?
Permissions? Even Windows know these nowadays ;) -> and it's probable
that the Webserver runs with minimal priviledges ;)

Andreas


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov  8 07:16:29 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 07:16:29 -0500
Subject: executing python code
In-Reply-To: <x7y8hfr9wu.fsf@guru.mired.org>
References: <cmgvvd$chn$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<418c0870$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
	<cmh1t7$d9p$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<418c0e56_1@omega.dimensional.com> <x7y8hfr9wu.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <418F639D.3070404@holdenweb.com>

Mike Meyer wrote:

> mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr) writes:
> 
> 
>>Darren Dale <dd55 at cornell.edu> writes:
>>
>>>Yes, I did chmod, the script is in the current directory.
>>>$ mycode.py
>>>bash: mycode.py: command not found
>>>
>>>I just tried:
>>>$ ./mycode.py
>>>and that will execute.
>>
>>That means the directory isn't in your PATH environment variable,
>>neither as a full path (/path/to/the/directory) nor as ".", which
>>means the current directory.  For security reasons it's usually
>>wise to leave "." out of your PATH, so if you don't want to type
> 
> 
> Actually, those reasons relate to having "." early in your path. If
> it's the last thing on your path, you won't trigger any trojan horses.
> 
Sorry, but the advice still stands. As long as commands are typed 
correctly everything is OK, but someone (like me) who makes a lot of 
typing mistakes runs the risk of triggering a trojan whose name is a 
misspelling of a command. So the best advice about putting "." on your 
path is "don;t do that".

> 
>>./mycode.py each time then put your scripts in a directory that
>>PATH knows about.  As others have mentioned, a common place for
>>a user's private scripts is in ~/bin, that is, the "bin" directory
>>under your home directory.  If it doesn't exist then you can use
>>mkdir to create it, and if it's not in your PATH then you'll need
>>to add it.
> 
> 
> I find that symlinking ~/src/python/mycode.py to ~/bin/mycode means I
> get to invoke it without having to specify the extension, and don't
> have to reinstall the file if I change it.
> 
>      <mike

That works too. Of course under Linux/Unix there's no particular reason 
to use the .py extension in the first place.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From ncoghlan at email.com  Tue Nov 30 08:52:16 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:52:16 +1000
Subject: slicing, mapping types, ellipsis etc.
In-Reply-To: <41ac6c55$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <m34qj8e5yd.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
	<41ac5701$0$25761$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
	<41ac6c55$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <41ac7b0f$0$25780$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Kent Johnson wrote:
> Maybe instead of referring to mappings it should say "The primary must 
> implement __getitem__(), which is called with a value that is 
> constructed from the slice list, as follows."

In the section you mention, 'mapping' is equivalent to 'has __getitem__ 
defined', and I'd be surprised if it's an isolated usage. Python actually has 
trouble distinguishing between sequences and mappings, as anyone who as tried to 
use the 'isMapping' API would know (the isMapping API uses much the same 
definition as the reference manual does - so all sequences show up as mappings, 
as they map indices and slices to objects).

Section 3 of the reference manual is actually more use for anyone developing 
custom types that override special methods. E.g. proper handling of slice 
objects is described here under container emulation:
http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/ref/sequence-types.html

Regards,
Nick.



From elbertlev at hotmail.com  Wed Nov  3 12:03:47 2004
From: elbertlev at hotmail.com (Elbert Lev)
Date: 3 Nov 2004 09:03:47 -0800
Subject: Twisted problem
References: <mailman.5821.1099415659.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9418be08.0411030903.41aad1f9@posting.google.com>

exarkun at divmod.com wrote in message news:<mailman.5821.1099415659.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> (Cross posting to twisted-python at twistedmatrix.com)
> 
> 
>   I can't quite tell what you're doing, or what error you're actually getting.  Can you include the full command line you are running, the full source file you are working with (or, preferably, a shorter one that demonstrates the same problem), and the full text of the error you receive, including the traceback if there is one?
> 
>   Jp

# Here is the script finger.tac (exact copy of tut. step 11)

from twisted.application import internet, service
from twisted.internet import protocol, reactor, defer
from twisted.protocols import basic
class FingerProtocol(basic.LineReceiver):
    def lineReceived(self, user):
        self.factory.getUser(user
        ).addErrback(lambda _: "Internal error in server"
        ).addCallback(lambda m:
                      (self.transport.write(m+"\r\n"),
                       self.transport.loseConnection()))
class FingerFactory(protocol.ServerFactory):
    protocol = FingerProtocol
    def __init__(self, **kwargs): self.users = kwargs
    def getUser(self, user):
        return defer.succeed(self.users.get(user, "No such user"))
application = service.Application('finger', uid=1, gid=1)
factory = FingerFactory(moshez='Happy and well')
r = internet.TCPServer(1079, factory)
r.setServiceParent(service.IServiceCollection(application))

# here is the command line:
#G:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\twisted\scripts\twistw.py  -ny
finger.tac -l c:\finger.log

As I stated no traceback and no output!


From someone at microsoft.com  Sat Nov 20 23:00:41 2004
From: someone at microsoft.com (Jive)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 04:00:41 GMT
Subject: Detecting memory leaks
Message-ID: <JpUnd.3357144$yk.521533@news.easynews.com>

The short form of the question is, how can I trace memory usage (preferably
from C) with an eye toward finding out if I'm leaking memory?

I would have thought there would be a ton of info on this, but I've been
googling for half and hour and I keep coming up empty.

I've recently ported Python to a realtime operating system, and I've
implemented a small C extension module.  The system controls a piece of
equipment.  A test program runs for about a week and then crashes.  The
first thing I think of to eliminate is the possibility of a memory leak.

I would also welcome a list of common causes of infant mortality in new
ports and extensions.

jdadson at yahoo dott com




From oliver.schoenborn at utoronto.ca  Wed Nov  3 11:36:23 2004
From: oliver.schoenborn at utoronto.ca (Humpdydum)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 11:36:23 -0500
Subject: path problem with "setup.py bdist"
Message-ID: <cmb1e7$pib$1@nrc-news.nrc.ca>

When I run

  python setup.py bdist --format=zip

on Windows 2000, with this setup.py:

  from distutils.core import setup
  setup(name="test",
        version="1.0",
        description="blabla",
        author="foo",
        author_email="bar",
        url="no url",
        packages=['scmLib.AppDoc', 'scmLib.DDE'],
        py_modules=['scmLib.version'],
        scripts = ['scmRun.py', 'scmRun.pyw']
       )

the zip file has complete path to the files, e.g. (copied from output of
setup.py):
  ...
  adding 'My Documents\Python23\Lib\site-packages\scmLib\version.py'
  adding 'My Documents\Python23\Lib\site-packages\scmLib\version.pyc'
  adding 'My Documents\Python23\Lib\site-packages\scmLib\__init__.py'
  adding 'My Documents\Python23\Lib\site-packages\scmLib\__init__.pyc'
  adding 'My Documents\Python23\Lib\site-packages\scmLib\AppDoc\CadEdf.py'
  adding 'My Documents\Python23\Lib\site-packages\scmLib\AppDoc\CadEdf.pyc'
  adding 'My
Documents\Python23\Lib\site-packages\scmLib\AppDoc\SeatSystem.py'
  adding 'My
Documents\Python23\Lib\site-packages\scmLib\AppDoc\SeatSystem.pyc'
  ...
If I open the zip file this is confirmed. I figure I must be doing something
wrong but what?
Oliver




From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Mon Nov 15 06:24:00 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:24:00 +0100
Subject: simple recursion help
References: <Gpyed.320058$bp1.6526@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<VUyed.320061$bp1.273357@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<mailman.5375.1098565018.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm4uqv.nmgjbj1vt0spjN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0410231916.450f67d@posting.google.com>
	<a5uxtxctfpx7.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
	<8ef9bea6.0411142205.460379f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1hi8mecjwxvii.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Hung Jung Lu (2004-11-15 07:05 +0100)
> Thorsten Kampe <thorsten at thorstenkampe.de> wrote:
>>> (1) "Variation" is the same as "permutation".
>> 
>> Sorry, no.
> 
> Sorry, yes. Please learn to accept the fact that a word
> ("permutation", in this case) can have several definitions. You are
> not the Pope of mathematics, and there is none. Different people
> define it different ways. Your definition is by no way the only
> accepted definition. You have been raised one school of
> notation/terminology, other people have been raised in another school
> of notation/terminology. What the French call "body" ("corps"), the
> American call it "field" ("champ") as in "the Real Number Field, the
> Complex Number Field". Many examples like that.
> 
>> * variations   without repetition = P(n, k)
> 
> Funny, "variation" starts with the letter "v", where do you think the
> "P" as in your "P(n, k)" come from? Surely not from "Pariation",
> right? The fact that you see the "P(n, k)" notation shows you that
> many people call this function "permutation". You simply were raised
> in a particular school of terminology and were not aware that another
> school of terminology existed.
> 
> What you have called ""variation with repetition", other people call
> it "string". As I said, you are not the Pope of mathematics, and don't
> expect other people will agree with your terminology.
> 
> Learn to accept the fact that what you call "variation", other people
> call it "permutation". Like it or not, it's a fact. Now, re-read the
> following sentence:
> 
>>> (1) "Variation" is the same as "permutation".
> 
> and try to understand what I was saying:
> 
>     Your "variation" == Other people's "permutation"
> 
> is that clear, now?
> 
> Please check
> http://mathworld.wolfram.com/BallPicking.html
> which I have pointed out in my earlier message and which you did not
> bother to read, at all. I would say the majority of students in the
> U.S.A. are trained with the terminology convention I use. Surely the
> usage of the term "variation" is also popular, but I would say that at
> present it constitutes the minority, not the majority.

Reading some articles in the Wikipedia I have to partly (well, maybe
even mostly) agree with you. Variations are in fact other peoples'
permutations in /popular/ math.

But I think the fact you're missing (and I tried to explain) is that
this use is deprecated and abandoned in scientific math for more than
a hundred years (since the rise of modern set theory).

Combinatorics (in its old use) is much older than set theory. It's
still one of the most applied fields (in its "ball picking" sense) for
gambling and other things. That's why the old habits die so slowly.
I've searched books from the fifties where variations still were
called "unordered combinations".

But combinatorics isn't "ball picking with and without 'putting back'"
anymore and so the old use of permutation isn't "official" anymore.

Two reasons for that are immediately understandable:

1. The old use of permutation always meant "unordered k-sets without
repetition". There simply was no name for "variations with
repetition".

That's why you stated 'For people that use the term "variation", the
term "permutation" is reserved for the special case V(n, n). Neither
name is right for the original question". And that's why people had to
invent names like "string" for this "thing without a name" - while in
scientific combinatorics it already had a name: variation with
repetition (or cartesian product in set theory).

2. Combinatorics isn't just "ball picking" anymore. It includes
"modern style" permutations (n!) - with and without repetition. That's
why the old use of permutation (that was used in "ball picking") isn't
used in scientific math and combinatorics anymore. There simply was no
way to teach combinatorics using "old" and "new" permutations.

And one word at the end: I'm not the pope of math. I did study math
for two years and even if I had a degree this wouldn't make me the
pope. I was trying to explain things, not to declare them.

Before I wrote my "cvp" program I did an exhaustive research (not on
the Internet) because I was very confused about the popular
terminology.

If you use (and think in) the new terminology combinatorics and it's
several cases are very clear and distinct: permutations, variations
and combinations with and without repetition. Six clearly categorized
cases.

And remember: the "new" use isn't that new (a hundred years and more).
If you continue to use the old terms of popular math you're
manifesting the existing confusion (and make people invent new names
like "string").

Thorsten


From valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk  Fri Nov 19 10:29:44 2004
From: valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk (Valkyrie)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:29:44 +0800
Subject: Question about thread
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6598.1100877060.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6598.1100877060.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1100878186.26229@eng-ser6>

Thanks for your suggestion :) But I would like to have a more standard solution,
I still don't know how to do so im mind...


Jp Calderone wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:50:17 +0800, Valkyrie <valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk> wrote:
> 
>>To be more precise, what I want to do is to have a threaded program to handle
>>some jobs concurrently (while those jobs are fetching  information from the
>>Internet, so threading could speed up the process if the network is slow)
>>
>>            start
>>              | (blahblahblah...)
>>              v
>>  +-----+-----+-----+-----+
>>  |     |     |     |     |
>>--+-- --+-- --+-- --+-- --+--
>>|   | |   | |   | |   | |   |
>>| A | | B | | C | | D | | E |
>>|   | |   | |   | |   | |   |
>>--+-- --+-- --+-- --+-- --+--
>>  |     |     |     |     |
>>  +-----+-----+-----+-----+
>>              | (blahblahblah...)
>>              v
>>           finish!
> 
> 
>   If your goal is efficient network concurrency, threads are a second-rate solution.  Asynchronous IO is the winner: http://www.twistedmatrix.com/
> 
>   Here's an example (untested as usual):
> 
>     from twisted.web.client import downloadPage
>     from twisted.internet import defer, reactor
> 
>     # Map URLs to files to which to save them
>     URLs = {'www.google.com', 'google',
>             # ...
>             'wigu.com', 'wigu',
>            }
> 
>     # Initiate the download and save of each page
>     downloads = []
>     for url in URLs:
>         downloads.append(downloadPage(url, open(URLs[url], 'w')))
> 
>     # Wait for all of the downloads to finish, then stop
>     defer.DeferredList(downloads).addCallback(lambda r: reactor.stop())
> 
>     # Start the reactor
>     reactor.run()
> 
>   Jp


From wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de  Mon Nov 29 15:33:46 2004
From: wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de (Wolfgang Keller)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 21:33:46 +0100
Subject: POSH on PowerMac? (was: Parallel Python on PowerMac?)
References: <1p1mclu2nq7e8$.1o0rc9ygt2rdy$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<ukKqd.42868$Z14.18224@news.indigo.ie>
	<1pdhqsu1pkfm6$.z66krbg3a0of.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <1jzg94kij3i3k$.h1muboar3fs1.dlg@40tude.net>

>> Although, iff your prospective machine supports System V IPC,
> 
> No clue whether MacOS X does so.

#@?$%&! Read before you post. According to "Mac OS X for UNIX Users"
there's a compatibility library included in Mac OS X that does so.

Now who's got a the tools and the know-how to port this thing to the Mac?

TIA,

Best regards,

Wolfgang Keller


From bokr at oz.net  Fri Nov 19 17:07:32 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:07:32 GMT
Subject: Python switch for syntax checking
References: <obrnd.30846$jE2.25588@bignews4.bellsouth.net>
	<419e6581$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <419e6c1b.494654145@news.oz.net>

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:08:00 -0800, Scott David Daniels <Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org> wrote:

>Jeff Duffy wrote:
>>  I've been wondering why python itself doesn't provide a switch to check 
>> a file for valid syntax. I know that you can currently call
>> python -c "import py_compile; py_compile.compile(r'MyApp.py')"
>> ...
>I suspect the reason is threefold.
>
>First, "python MyApp.py" does a syntax check anyway.  If MyApp is
>not a main program, all you get is the syntax check.  As for main
??? What does "not a main program mean"? I'm not sure what you mean, e.g.,

 [14:00] C:\pywk\clp>python notmain.py
 notmain.py executing

 [14:00] C:\pywk\clp>python
 Python 2.3.2 (#49, Oct  2 2003, 20:02:00) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import notmain
 notmain.py executing
 >>> ^Z


 [14:00] C:\pywk\clp>py24
 Python 2.4b1 (#56, Nov  3 2004, 01:47:27)
 [GCC 3.2.3 (mingw special 20030504-1)] on win32
 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import notmain
 notmain.py executing

Oops, forgot to show you what notmain.py was:

 >>> print '%s\n%s%s' % ('-'*40, open('notmain.py').read(), '-'*40)
 ----------------------------------------
 print 'notmain.py executing'

 ----------------------------------------

>programs, larger applications are often split into smaller files.
>I seldom have large main program files to check.
>
>Second, lots of extreme programmer (XP) practitioners hang out here,
>and even more who have adopted at leasrt some of the XP techniques.
>Those people tend to run unit tests rather than syntax checks.
>
>Third, pychecker provides better analysis if you want static analysis.
>
>I pretty much try to go the unit test way myself.  While I would
>suggest you try it out, the three reasons above are meant to explain
>why nobody has put effort into a syntax check switch.
>
>--Scott David Daniels
>Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org
>

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From mwm at mired.org  Tue Nov 23 11:50:23 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:50:23 -0600
Subject: is int(round(val)) safe?
References: <rowen-8AF206.11131622112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<cntjpk$qc2$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<41a2b5fb.775710152@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <x74qjgtsq8.fsf@guru.mired.org>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:

> On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:58:54 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>Russell E. Owen wrote:
>>The problem* with floating point is inaccurate representation
>>of certain _fractional_ values, not integer values.
>
> Well, you mentioned really large integers, and I think it's worth
> mentioning that you can get inaccurate representation of certain of those
> values too. I.e., what you really have (for ieee 754 doubles) is 53 bits
> to count with in steps of one weighted unit, and the unit can be 2**0
> or 2**otherpower, where otherpower has 11 bits to represent it, more or less
> +- 2**10 with an offset for 53. If the unit step is 2**1, you get twice the range
> of integers, counting by two's, which doesn't give you a way of representing the
> odd numbers between accurately. So it's not only fractional values that can get
> truncated on the right. Try adding 1.0 to 2.0**53 ;-)

It's much easier than that to get integer floating point numbers that
aren't correct. Consider:

>>> long(1e70)
10000000000000000725314363815292351261583744096465219555182101554790400L

I don't know the details on 754 FP, but the FP I'm used to represents
*all* numbers as a binary fraction times an exponent. Since .1 can't
be represented exactly, 1e<anything> will be wrong if you ask for
enough digits.

This recently caused someone to propose that 1e70 should be a long
instead of a float. No one mentioned the idea of making

[0-9]+[eE]+?[0-9]+ be of integer type, and

[0-9]*.[0-9]+[eE][+-]?[0-9]+ be a float. [0-9]+[eE]-[0-9]+ would also
be a float. No simple rule for this, unfortunately.

   <mike

-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From peter at monicol.co.uk  Thu Nov 18 15:47:44 2004
From: peter at monicol.co.uk (Peter Mott)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 20:47:44 -0000
Subject: CGI and logging module
Message-ID: <419d0a70$0$221$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>

I am using:

Python 2.3.4 (#2, Nov 14 2004, 18:06:48)
[GCC 2.95.4 20020320 [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4

with Apache/1.3.26. The following script causes an Internal Server Error 
(with nothing in the Apache error logs AFAIK):

#!/usr/local/bin/python

import logging

print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"
print "<html><head><title></title></head><body><h1>OK</h1>"""
print "</body></html>"

The same script with the import statement commented out works as expected. 
Has anyone encountered this? I have googled without success.

Thanks

Peter 




From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 08:49:19 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 18 Nov 2004 05:49:19 -0800
Subject: using the bsddb from Python (missing docs!)
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0411180549.33719f1e@posting.google.com>

I was browsing through the source tree of Python 2.4b2 and in Lib/bsddb/test 
I found a lot of interesting stuff. It seems that the support for the bsd
database is much better than documented in the standard library
http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/module-bsddb.html.
There are tests for locking, transactions, join, etc.
Is there some documentation anywhere? 
I could infer what I need from the tests but maybe there is already
some nice article on the net explaining everything I want to know and more
;-) OTOH, I do not find Python-centric documentation in the sleepycat web 
site.

           Michele Simionato


From sales at asan.com  Tue Nov  2 23:55:14 2004
From: sales at asan.com (sales at asan.com)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 04:55:14 GMT
Subject: We have Juvio: Computer Glitches? Rent your own tech. 24 hours a
	day, 7 days a week
Message-ID: <SwZhd.39954$Jb.1197976@twister.southeast.rr.com>

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From evenprimes at gmail.com  Fri Nov  5 09:56:12 2004
From: evenprimes at gmail.com (Chris Cioffi)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:56:12 -0500
Subject: pep 336: Make None Callable
In-Reply-To: <418AE21B.6040905@benjiyork.com>
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>
	<f03f4fdf04110407394b24e7cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<418AE21B.6040905@benjiyork.com>
Message-ID: <f03f4fdf0411050656504b81f8@mail.gmail.com>

Ouch.  Ok...

<lame face saving attempt>At least _most_ of those are classes as
opposed to primitives...</lame face saving attempt>

Chris


On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 20:14:51 -0600, Benji York <benji at benjiyork.com> wrote:
> Chris Cioffi wrote:
> > Even when we type it: None.  it's the only builtin that is
> > capitalized.
> 
> Hmm.
> 
> >>> print '\n'.join([name for name in dir(__builtins__) if name[0].isupper()])
> ArithmeticError
> AssertionError
> AttributeError
> DeprecationWarning
> EOFError
> Ellipsis
> EnvironmentError
> Exception
> False
> FloatingPointError
> FutureWarning
> IOError
> ImportError
> IndentationError
> IndexError
> KeyError
> KeyboardInterrupt
> LookupError
> MemoryError
> NameError
> None
> NotImplemented
> NotImplementedError
> OSError
> OverflowError
> OverflowWarning
> PendingDeprecationWarning
> ReferenceError
> RuntimeError
> RuntimeWarning
> StandardError
> StopIteration
> SyntaxError
> SyntaxWarning
> SystemError
> SystemExit
> TabError
> True
> TypeError
> UnboundLocalError
> UnicodeDecodeError
> UnicodeEncodeError
> UnicodeError
> UnicodeTranslateError
> UserWarning
> ValueError
> Warning
> WindowsError
> ZeroDivisionError
> --
> Benji York
> benji at benjiyork.com
> 
> 


-- 
<a href="http://spreadfirefox.com/community/?q=affiliates&id=0&t=1">Get
Firefox!</a>


From greg.steffensen at gmail.com  Mon Nov  8 01:57:53 2004
From: greg.steffensen at gmail.com (Greg  Steffensen)
Date: 7 Nov 2004 22:57:53 -0800
Subject: How come wxPython isn't in the standard library?
In-Reply-To: <nua362-miv.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<aj3u52-a2r.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<ogjv52-anq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<mailman.6060.1099838610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmli2h$c18$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<1099858070.544710.146320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2004.11.08.02.45.17.938980@wp.pl>
	<nua362-miv.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <1099897073.150678.6170@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Now is better than never (and no one's advocating "right now").



From secchi at sssup.it  Tue Nov 16 04:16:08 2004
From: secchi at sssup.it (Angelo Secchi)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:16:08 +0100
Subject: Strange behaviour
Message-ID: <20041116101608.3cdbbbbb.secchi@sssup.it>


Hi,
I'm running  Python 2.3.4 [GCC 3.3.4 20040623 (Gentoo Linux 3.3.4-r1,
ssp-3.3.2-2, pie-8.7.6)] on a dual opteron (64bit) machine with Gentoo
2004.2 and a 2.6.9 kernel. I've noticed the following strage (at least
to me, not an expert) behavior

CODE 1  Numeric 23.1

from Numeric import *
from RandomArray import *

g = standard_normal(10)
for i in g:
    print i

OUTPUT 1

1.59079927293e-314
1.5752918018e-314
5.23806804853e-315
1.58228191666e-314
5.11159528165e-315
5.31543285917e-315
1.58655562847e-314
4.89784284909e-315
1.57681709855e-314
1.58297641881e-314


CODE 2 Numarray (latest cvs)

from numarray.random_array import *

g = standard_normal(10)
for i in g:
    print i

OUTPUT 2

-1.11763262749
-0.976676821709
0.67619407177
0.0889070928097
-0.120251983404
-0.0151885077357
0.570596694946
-1.62964510918
-1.32629060745
-1.05354857445


Any idea about the origin of this problem?
Thanks
angelo



--
========================================================
 Angelo Secchi                     PGP Key ID:EA280337
========================================================


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  5 10:33:48 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 16:33:48 +0100
Subject: How do you execute an OS X application (bundle) from Python?
References: <70bb9f8d.0411040250.1f4ac1a@posting.google.com>
	<69cbbef2.0411041513.120fc039@posting.google.com>
	<1gmrrsj.7ljqd6f3sgkfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<m24qk4ttl2.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>
	<1gms4py.c7p5cjeee3clN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<m2u0s4sb6e.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>
	<just-291BBC.15051705112004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <1gmsdj3.12zknwuzpl15lN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Just <just at xs4all.nl> wrote:
   ...
> BBEdit does indeed come with a command line tool (you need to install it
> separately). From the bbedit man page:
> 
>        -w     Wait until the file is closed in BBEdit. Normally,
>               the bbedit tool exits immediately after the file
>               arguments are opened in BBEdit. The -w option
>               allows the bbedit tool to be used as an external
>               editor for Unix tools that use the EDITOR global
>               environment variable. To make this work using tcsh,
>               add the following line to your .cshrc file:
> 
>               setenv EDITOR "bbedit -w"

Nice!!!  OK, so what we need are similar commandline tools for other
useful apps, since MacOSX's own 'open' does not provide such a -w switch
(maybe it's too generic a tool for such a switch to be conceivable...?)


Alex


From fumanchu at amor.org  Sat Nov 27 23:23:09 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:23:09 -0800
Subject: futue feature division not found  (embedded)
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E32452C0@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Jive wrote:
> "Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
> news:41a925d5.1197560430 at news.oz.net...
> > On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 22:51:24 GMT, "Jive" 
> <someone at microsoft.com> wrote:
> >
> > >I've got a program with Python 2.3 embedded.  When I try 
> to run a script
> > >containing "from __future__ import division", I get an exception:
> > >
> > >    File "main2.py", line 3
> > >    from __future__ import divison
> > >SyntaxError: future feature divison is not defined
> >                                  ^^ s/divison/division/  ;-)
> > >
> > >Anyone know how to fix that?  BTW, when I run the program with
> > >CO_FUTURE_DIVISION set in PyCompilerFlags, division works 
> the new way, as
> it
> >                                                 ^^^
> > >should.
> > >
> > >
> > HTH. On to the next bug ;-)
> 
> What's HTH?

"Hope that helps"

> It does fail though.  Here's the message when I type it right:
> 
> File "main2.py", line 3, in ?
>     from __future__ import division
> ImportError: No module named __future__
> 
> I didn't misspell __future__ did I?

Nope. Mine's sitting at C:\Python23\Lib\__future__.py. Must not have
embedded that one.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Nov 13 20:47:57 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 01:47:57 GMT
Subject: Python 2.4: Why only assignments to None are forbiden?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6338.1100391854.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <4195190f@pfaff2.ethz.ch><cn40in$cj9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>	<eivld.25773$KJ6.22637@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.6338.1100391854.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hPyld.3368$G36.1719@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> Peter was not suggesting that replacement of None be allowed but that 
> replacement of things like file() should continued to be allowed and not 
> prohibited as someone (I believe other than the OP) suggested.

Ahh, thank you.  I didn't catch the shift in topic.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Nov 10 17:48:02 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:48:02 -0600
Subject: Announce: csv_xs.py
In-Reply-To: <BDB83586.1CB2%cme@lampcoders.net>
References: <BDB81C1E.1C8E%cme@lampcoders.net>
	<AJ-dnX4xUIX97g_cRVn-sQ@giganews.com>
	<BDB83586.1CB2%cme@lampcoders.net>
Message-ID: <16786.39586.853321.183156@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> What you do is not csv parsing!
    >> 
    >> You are just splitting the rows by the separator character...

    Chris> ... i will extends it if it is nessesary ...

Trust me, you will eventually find it to be necessary. ;-)

Skip


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Mon Nov 15 11:17:57 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:17:57 -0500
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <4198cc5f$0$258$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
	<boKdncuh1ZBxbgrcRVn-gA@giganews.com> <L0Tld.2114$nj.1155@lakeread01>
	<41985663$0$272$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<ZR1md.4916$nj.2331@lakeread01>
	<4198cc5f$0$258$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <1f7befae04111508172c22e888@mail.gmail.com>

[Max M]
>>> Where you on Windows or Linux?

[Steve Holden]
>> Windows.

[Max]
> I thought so :-)
> 
> I'm on Windows too, and Z3 the installer seems to be in a pretty sorrow
> state there.

The Z3 Windows installer is exactly what you get if you:

1. Unpack the Linux Z3 tarball.
2. Run "install.py bdist_wininst" from its root, on a Windows box
   with MSVC 6.0 installed.
3. Rename the installer that step generates to remove the blank
   from its name.

IOW, it's a 100% vanilla distutils-based installer, by way of Zope's
zpkg, and should be equivalent to what gets created on Linux.  If it's
not, that's a bug in distutils, or in zpkg, or in X3's zpkg config
files.

> I think it is pretty simple to get it running. But stuff like scripts
> being called "mkzopeinstane" instead of "mkzopeinstane.py"

That's a religious battle in distutils-land.  At least half of
Linux-heads seem to think it's offensive to God to leave an extension
on an "executable" script, and since most contributors to open
software are Linux-heads, .py gets stripped on most such files. 
There's no solution to this short of changing distutils to grow
platform-specific rules about retaining or stripping extensions.

> and there being references to folders that don't exists in the Windows
> install, so you need to guess which ones to use instead.

That's news to me.  The entire X3 test suite (both unit and functional
tests) passes on Windows, when run from a Zope instance created from
what the installer installs, and that accesses virtually every part of
X3.

If you have more details about that, the zope3-dev list would be a
better place to reveal them.


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Fri Nov 12 08:57:20 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 14:57:20 +0100
Subject: Plone and mod_python
References: <7l1ld.13845$3_.7287@ns2.gip.net>
	<gr3aeg0wjjx.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
	<_W2ld.13847$3_.7301@ns2.gip.net>
Message-ID: <1iyi5elgjn6w5$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Tony Ha (2004-11-12 13:31 +0100)
> Thanks very much for the explanations, from your answers, it looks like, it
> is better
> to use "Plone + Apache".

Not better, bigger.

> Is this means I need to install Apache, then Plone,
> and
> configure Apache or Plone to talk to each other?

You have to configure Apache and Zope to talk to each other.
 
> But under the plone.org downloads it offer a bundle installer for Window XP.
> Does
> this mean the bundle will use Zope and the built-in Medusa as the web
> server?

Yes.

> and I do not need Apache?

Yes.


From nick at craig-wood.com  Fri Nov 19 08:30:14 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 13:30:14 GMT
Subject: Rationals?
References: <x73bz7na6r.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<mailman.6526.1100749612.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<x7y8gzkpii.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<mailman.6570.1100822468.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncprssv.5v3.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Tim Peters <tim.peters at gmail.com> wrote:
>  If you want to use rationals in Python, gmpy is a fine way to do it
>  today.

I would say gmpy (or something like it, eg mxNumber) should be added
to the standard library.

I'm personally more interested in the fixed point numbers rather than
the rationals, and having played with various implementations of that
concept recently, I can say that the new decimal module is by far the
slowest, and gmpy is by far the fastest.

Eg simplistic program to calculate 1000 decimal places of e :-

gmpy.mpf            0.00271s
FixedPointNcw.py    0.0118s (FixedPoint.py with simple mod for * by int)
FixedPoint.py       0.358s
decimal          1546.9s

People are going to come new to Python and see the decimal type and
think - oh this looks ideal for high precision calculations, then get
rather a shock!

The GMP library upon which gmpy it is based

  http://www.swox.com/gmp/

is very portable and lovingly maintained by a team of experts ;-) Why
should python re-implement its own versions of what it does when it
exists already in a usable (LGPL) format?  In fact I'd go one further
and suggest gmpy.mpz() should replace long().  Yes python now has a
Karatsuba multiply for long * long, but GMP has much more...

  http://swox.com/gmp/manual/Multiplication-Algorithms.html

Anyway, I see from a bit of googling that python used to have an mpz
module based on GMP in the stdlib, but it was dropped for some reason.
Probably the pain of external library dependencies in cross platform
code (a very familiar pain from my day to day working life!).

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From rune.hansen at scanmine.com  Thu Nov 25 08:39:44 2004
From: rune.hansen at scanmine.com (roderik)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 14:39:44 +0100
Subject: SysLogHandler is drivin me nuts
In-Reply-To: <f11c8440.0411250122.c600af1@posting.google.com>
References: <f11c8440.0411250122.c600af1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Cglpd.9549$rh1.242679@news2.e.nsc.no>

michael wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> I am stuck while trying to use the logging facilities. Its not logging
> :-) Can somebody point me to a solution ?
> 
> The following snipplets are used
> 
> -------------------------------------------
> "crap.py"
> 
> logging.config.fileConfig("logging.cfg")
> logger = logging.getLogger ("syslog")
> logger.info('While this is just chatty')
> 
> -------------------------------------------
> "logging.cfg"
> 
> [syslog]
> class=handlers.SysLogHandler
> level=ERROR
> formatters=form01
> facility=LOG_LOCAL0
> priority = LOG_INFO
> 
> [formatters]
> keys=form01
> 
> [formatter_form01]
> format=%(levelname)s %(message)s
> 
> -------------------------------------------
> "/etc/syslog.conf"
> 
> local0.*;local0.!=debug         /var/log/local.log
> local0.=debug           /var/log/local-d.log
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Michael

I'm taking a wild guess here(io. I haven't tested your code), but I 
don't think you can expect a logger of level ERROR to logg messages of 
level INFO. Try setting your log level to INFO.

regards
/rune


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 09:31:32 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:31:32 -0200
Subject: pre-PEP generic objects
In-Reply-To: <41ac67dd$0$25770$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
References: <a8Oqd.110119$V41.14593@attbi_s52>
	<41ac67dd$0$25770$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <864d370904113006312cf9c30a@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 22:30:21 +1000, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at email.com> wrote:
> The proposed use cases sound more appropriate for a "named tuple" than any sort
> of dictionary. (This may have been mentioned in previous discussions. I wasn't
> keeping track of those, though)

I agree with it. I was involved in that discussion, and got the the
point of listing a few desired features. As I am currently involved
into other project, I left it as it was, but I'll resume working as
soon as I can. I really think that both (generic objects and named
tuples) are slighly different but still very similar approaches to the
same problem, so some sort of "unification" of the efforts may be
interesting.

But there's something more important: while reading this document, and
some of the replies, it became clear that the main point is to
understand whether this proposed feature (in any possible
implementation) is in fact useful enough to deserve a place in the
standard library, and also if it represents a good coding style. With
some risk of being way too simplistic, it's something like this:

-- The people that is favorable to this implementation argue that one
should not be required to create a new class just to return a bunch of
results.

-- The people that is against it point out that, as soon as you start
returning multiple values, it's probable that you'll need to implement
a class anyway, so it's better off to do it sooner and forget generics
(or named tuples) entirely.

I see some parallels between this discussion and another one about
polymorphism. It's considered good Python practice to rely on
interfaces, or protocols, when designing the call signature of a
function or method. So if you receive an arbitrary object, you should
not check if it's a descendand of some abstract parent type; that's
just too rigid, and forces people to deal with complex multiple
inheritance stuff, and that's really not needed in Python. There is a
better way: just check if it exposes the desired interface, or
protocol. The adaptation framework (as described by PEP 246, and
extended by the PyProtocols package) is a nice implementation of this
concept.

A "generic" return object is just like this, but for a different
scenario: an adaptable return value, that doesn't enforce a class
signature when assigning the return value of a function or method.
It's perfectly symmetrical to the usage of interfaces on call. I think
that's a better, and much more powerful argument for the
implementation of a generic class, and also, for some supporting
machinery for it.

Extending this reasoning, generic return objects (implemented either
as dictionary based, or as named tuples) could be seen as "adaptable"
return values. Upon return, one could get  such a temporary structure
and assign its members into another, more complex class, that would
accept fields of the same name, but possibly include other fields and
extra functionality. For example: a function that returns a complex
time structure does not need to return a "time class". It may return a
generic, or named tuple, which is in turn can be assigned to an object
that exposes a 'compatible' assignment interface. This assignment can
be done by a method of the generic clas itself, according either to
the names of the member of the generics, or the order of the tuple,
depending on the scenario.

For now, that's all that I have to contribute into this discussion.
There's also a lot of stuff in the c.l.py archives regarding named
tuples and also generics that is surely worth checking.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net  Wed Nov 17 16:04:38 2004
From: philippecmartin at sbcglobal.net (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:04:38 -0600
Subject: How to do this in Python?
Message-ID: <200411171504.38596.philippecmartin@sbcglobal.net>

>>Hi,

 

>>I just started using python. In Perl, I could do something like this to
>>process the output of ps:

>>$result = `ps -ef | grep myprog`. Then the $result contains the result from
>>this command line.

>>How can I do similar things in python?


One way:



import os
res = os.popen('ps -e | grep myprog').readlines()


Regards,

Philippe


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Nov 29 18:19:39 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 23:19:39 GMT
Subject: pre-PEP generic objects
Message-ID: <a8Oqd.110119$V41.14593@attbi_s52>

I promised I'd put together a PEP for a 'generic object' data type for 
Python 2.5 that allows one to replace __getitem__ style access with 
dotted-attribute style access (without declaring another class).  Any 
comments would be appreciated!

Thanks!

Steve

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Generic Object Data Type
Version: $Revision: 1.0 $
Last-Modified: $Date: 2004/11/29 16:00:00 $
Author: Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com>
Status: Draft
Type: Standards Track
Content-Type: text/x-rst
Created: 29-Nov-2004
Python-Version: 2.5
Post-History: 29-Nov-2004


Abstract
========

This PEP proposes a standard library addition to support the simple
creation of 'generic' objects which can be given named attributes
without the need to declare a class. Such attribute-value mappings are
intended to complement the name-value mappings provided by Python's
builtin dict objects.


Motivation
==========

Python's dict objects provide a simple way of creating anonymous
name-value mappings. These mappings use the __getitem__ protocol to
access the value associated with a name, so that code generally appears
like::

     mapping['name']

Occasionally, a programmer may decide that dotted-attribute style access
is more appropriate to the domain than __getitem__ style access, and
that their mapping should be accessed like::

     mapping.name

Currently, if a Python programmer makes this design decision, they are
forced to declare a new class, and then build instances of this class.
When no methods are to be associated with the attribute-value mappings,
declaring a new class can be overkill.  This PEP proposes adding a
simple type to the standard library that can be used to build such
attribute-value mappings.

Providing such a type allows the Python programmer to determine which
type of mapping is most appropriate to their domain and apply this
choice with minimal effort.  Some of the suggested uses include:


Returning Named Results
-----------------------

It is often appropriate for a function that returns multiple items to
give names to the different items returned.  The type suggested in this
PEP provides a simple means of doing this that allows the returned
values to be accessed in the usual attribute-style access::

     >>> def f(x):
     ...     return Bunch(double=2*x, squared=x**2)
     ...
     >>> y = f(10)
     >>> y.double
     20
     >>> y.squared
     100


Representing Hierarchical Data
------------------------------

The type suggested in this PEP also allows a simple means of
representing hierarchical data that allows attribute-style access::

     >>> x = Bunch(spam=Bunch(rabbit=1, badger=[2, 3, 4]), ham='neewom')
     >>> x.spam.badger
     [2, 3, 4]
     >>> x.ham
     'neewom'


Rationale
=========

As Bunch objects are intended primarily to replace simple classes,
simple Bunch construction was a primary concern.  As such, the Bunch
constructor supports creation from keyword arguments, dicts, and
sequences of (attribute, value) pairs::

     >>> Bunch(eggs=1, spam=2, ham=3)
     Bunch(eggs=1, ham=3, spam=2)
     >>> Bunch({'eggs':1, 'spam':2, 'ham':3})
     Bunch(eggs=1, ham=3, spam=2)
     >>> Bunch([('eggs',1), ('spam',2), ('ham',3)])
     Bunch(eggs=1, ham=3, spam=2)

To allow attribute-value mappings to be easily combined, the update
method of Bunch objects supports similar arguments.

If Bunch objects are used to represent hierarchical data, comparison of
such objects becomes a concern.  For this reason, Bunch objects support
object equality::

     >>> x = Bunch(parrot=Bunch(lumberjack=True, spam=42), peng='shrub')
     >>> y = Bunch(peng='shrub', parrot=Bunch(spam=42, lumberjack=True))
     >>> z = Bunch(parrot=Bunch(lumberjack=True), peng='shrub')
     >>> x == y
     True
     >>> x == z
     False

Additionally, to allow users of the Bunch type to convert other
hierarchical data into Bunch objects, a frommapping classmethod is
supported.  This can be used, for example, to convert an XML DOM tree
into a tree of nested Bunch objects::

     >>> import xml.dom.minidom
     >>> def getitems(element):
     ...     if not isinstance(element, xml.dom.minidom.Element):
     ...         raise TypeError('items only retrievable from Elements')
     ...     if element.attributes:
     ...         for key, value in element.attributes.items():
     ...             yield key, value
     ...     children = {}
     ...     for child in element.childNodes:
     ...         if child.nodeType == xml.dom.minidom.Node.TEXT_NODE:
     ...             text_list = children.setdefault('text', [])
     ...             text_list.append(child.nodeValue)
     ...         else:
     ...             children.setdefault(child.nodeName, []).append(
     ...                 Bunch.frommapping(child, getitems=getitems))
     ...     for name, child_list in children.items():
     ...         yield name, child_list
     ...
     >>> doc = xml.dom.minidom.parseString("""\
     ... <xml>
     ...   <a attr_a="1">
     ...     a text 1
     ...     <b attr_b="2" />
     ...     <b attr_b="3"> b text </b>
     ...     a text 2
     ...   </a>
     ...   <c attr_c="4"> c text </c>
     ... </xml>""")
     >>> b = Bunch.frommapping(doc.documentElement, getitems=getitems)
     >>> b.a[0].b[1]
     Bunch(attr_b=u'3', text=[u' b text '])

Note that support for the various mapping methods, e.g.
__(get|set|del)item__, __len__, __iter__, __contains__, items, keys,
values, etc. was intentionally omitted as these methods did not seem to
be necessary for the core uses of an attribute-value mapping.  If such
methods are truly necessary for a given use case, this may suggest that
a dict object is a more appropriate type for that use.


Reference Implementation
========================

(This will be replaced with a link to a SF patch when I think I've
made all the necessary corrections)::

     import operator as _operator

     class Bunch(object):
         """Bunch([bunch|dict|seq], **kwds) -> new bunch with specified
         attributes

         The new Bunch object's attributes are initialized from (if
         provided) either another Bunch object's attributes, a
         dictionary, or a sequence of (name, value) pairs, then from the
         name=value pairs in the keyword argument list.

         Example Usage:
         >>> Bunch(eggs=1, spam=2, ham=3)
         Bunch(eggs=1, ham=3, spam=2)
         >>> Bunch({'eggs':1, 'spam':2, 'ham':3})
         Bunch(eggs=1, ham=3, spam=2)
         >>> Bunch([('eggs',1), ('spam',2), ('ham',3)])
         Bunch(eggs=1, ham=3, spam=2)
         >>> Bunch(Bunch(eggs=1, spam=2), ham=3)
         Bunch(eggs=1, ham=3, spam=2)
         """

         def __init__(self, *args, **kwds):
             """Initializes a Bunch instance."""
             self.update(*args, **kwds)

         def __eq__(self, other):
             """x.__eq__(y) <==> x == y"""
             return (isinstance(other, self.__class__)
                     and self.__dict__ == other.__dict__)

         def __repr__(self):
             """x.__repr__() <==> repr(x)

             If all attribute values in this bunch (and any nested
             bunches) are reproducable with eval(repr(x)), then the Bunch
             object is also reproducable for eval(repr(x)).
             """
             return '%s(%s)' % (self.__class__.__name__,
                                ', '.join('%s=%r' % (k, v)
                                          for k, v
                                          in self.__dict__.items()))

         def update(self, *args, **kwds):
             """update([bunch|dict|seq], **kwds) -> None

             Updates a Bunch object's attributes from (if provided)
             either another Bunch object's attributes, a dictionary, or a
             sequence of (name, value) pairs, then from the name=value
             pairs in the keyword argument list.
             """
             if len(args) == 1:
                 other, = args
                 if isinstance(other, self.__class__):
                     other = other.__dict__
                 try:
                     self.__dict__.update(other)
                 except TypeError:
                     raise TypeError('cannot update Bunch with %s' %
                                     type(other).__name__)
             elif len(args) != 0:
                 raise TypeError('expected 1 argument, got %i' %
                                 len(args))
             self.__dict__.update(kwds)

         @classmethod
         def frommapping(cls, mapping, getitems=None):
             """Create a Bunch object from a (possibly nested) mapping.

             Note that, unlike the Bunch constructor, frommapping
             recursively converts all mappings to bunches.

             Example Usage:
             >>> Bunch.frommapping({'eggs':1,
             ...                    'spam':{'ham':2, 'badger':3}})
             Bunch(eggs=1, spam=Bunch(ham=2, badger=3))

             Keyword Arguments:
             mapping -- a mapping object
             getitems -- a function that takes the mapping as a parameter
                 and returns an iterable of (key, value) pairs.  If not
                 provided, the items method on the mapping object will be
                 used, or (key, mapping[key]) values will be generated if
                 the mapping object does not provide an items method.

             Note that getitems will be applied recursively to each value
             in the mapping.  It should raise a TypeError if it is
             applied to an object for which it cannot produce
             (key, value) pairs.
             """
             # determine which items() method to use
             if getitems is None:
                 try:
                     getitems = type(mapping).items
                 except AttributeError:
                     getitems = _items
             # build the Bunch from the mapping, recursively
             result = cls()
             for key, value in getitems(mapping):
                 try:
                     value = cls.frommapping(value, getitems=getitems)
                 except TypeError:
                     pass
                 setattr(result, key, value)
             return result


     def _items(mapping):
         """Produces (key, value) pairs from a mapping object.

         Intended for use with mapping objects that do not supply an
         items method.
         """
         for key in mapping:
             yield key, mapping[key]


Open Issues
===========
What should the type be named?  Some suggestions include 'Bunch',
'Record' and 'Struct'.

Where should the type be placed?  The current suggestion is the
collections module.


References
==========




..
    Local Variables:
    mode: indented-text
    indent-tabs-mode: nil
    sentence-end-double-space: t
    fill-column: 70
    End:


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Nov  7 13:30:54 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 19:30:54 +0100
Subject: interning strings
In-Reply-To: <cmldpr$p0q$01$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <418e1e69$0$15438$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
	<cmldpr$p0q$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <418e69df$0$180$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Peter Otten wrote:
> String constants that are potential attribute names are also interned:

Peter has explained all this correctly, but this aspect needs some
stressing perhaps: string *literals* that are potential attribute
names are also interned. This interning is done in the compiler,
when the code object is created, so strings not created by the compiler
are not interned.

[all strings are "constant", i.e. immutable, so the statement
  above might have been confusing]

Regards,
Martin


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Nov 16 16:02:19 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:02:19 -0500
Subject: Pyrex on Windows
In-Reply-To: <419A5B3C.1090401@propel.com>
References: <99230dbb.0411141332.3594e925@posting.google.com>	<cndhhj$gfk$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<419A68B5.3040405@cloudthunder.com> <419A5B3C.1090401@propel.com>
Message-ID: <419A6ADB.3020402@cloudthunder.com>

Mike Rovner wrote:

> Richard Blackwood wrote:
>
>> Sounds good, but then again, he said he wanted to _play_ with Pyrex, 
>> why discourage him?
>
>
> What would you say to a kid trying to play with matches? ;)

I expect that that wink indicates you are aware that Pyrex is not a box 
of matches, and he has little to nothing other than time to lose.

>
>> What are you trying to tell him Mike?
>
>
> "You are too small to play with it. It's not your toy (yet)."

What danger will he come upon?

>
> Sorry, life is harsh.

Programming certainly is not, unless he is exploring this for career/job 
purposes.

>
> Mike




From leipoldw at ace-net.com  Sun Nov 28 23:10:56 2004
From: leipoldw at ace-net.com (Walter S. Leipold)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 23:10:56 -0500
Subject: Help on creating a HTML by python
Message-ID: <E5F271CA3BECD511A5DB0040F60C8C890994E9@bdcde0.ace-net.com>

evil_pizz at hotmail.com writes:
> Can anyone help me to use a python to create an 
> HTML photo gallery generator.

One way to do this is to download and install ImageMagick from
<imagemagick.org>, then invoke it as an external program from a 
simple Python script.  A sample script that *should* run on 
Windows is appended below.  

> When viewed in a web browser, the HTML file will display the
> thumbnails in a neatly formatted table, and if you click on 
> one of the thumbnails the full-size image will appear.

Of course, this program only creates an HTML file for a single
directory.  You'll have to do additional work if you want this 
process to happen automatically on your Web server -- see Python's
CGI package for details.

Hope this helps...

-- Walt

#!/usr/bin/python
# thumb.py -- Make thumbnails and index page for JPGs.

import os
import os.path
import glob

# ==================

htmlhead = """
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC
    "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/loose.dtd">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Pictures</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY STYLE="width: 600px">
<P>
"""

htmlfoot = """
</P>
</BODY>
</HTML>
"""

imagerecord = \
    "<A HREF=\"%s\"><IMG BORDER=0 SRC=\"%s\"></A>\n"

# ==================

# ImageMagick command to convert/resize a file.
# (Substitute the path where you've installed ImageMagick.)
convert_cmd = \
    "S:\\programs\\magick\\convert -geometry 160x160 %s %s"

# ==================

# Create directory for thumbnail images if necessary.
thumbdir = "./thumbnails"
if not os.path.exists(thumbdir):
    os.mkdir(thumbdir)

f = open("index.html","w")
f.write(htmlhead)

for fn in glob.glob("*.jpg"):
    print "Processing " + fn + "..."
    thumbfn = os.path.join(thumbdir,fn[:-4] + "_thumb.gif")
    cmd = convert_cmd % (fn,thumbfn)
    rc = os.system(cmd)
    if rc != 0:
        print "Error executing '%s': %d" % (cmd,rc)
        break
    f.write(imagerecord % (fn,thumbfn))

f.write(htmlfoot)
f.close()



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Nov  1 01:58:49 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 23:58:49 -0700
Subject: Faking out __name__ == __main__
In-Reply-To: <41856376.1288438706@news.oz.net>
References: <mailman.5739.1099260363.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41856376.1288438706@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <20041031235608.0C3E.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:05:59 -0500, Ed Leafe <ed at leafe.com> wrote:
>  >>> def test():
>  ...     d = {'__name__': '__xxxx__'}
>  ...     execfile('tmain.py', d)

I believe it is technically more Pythonic to use __import__ rather than
execfile, if only because you have access to the module itself when you
are done.


 - Josiah



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Nov 12 07:48:28 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:48:28 -0300
Subject: Floating point -> string conversions
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7BC1@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Steve Holden]
#- I don't think so. The fact of the matter is that a %d format token 
#- explicitly expects an integral value.
#- 
#- The fact that %s coerces things makes us expect more of other format 
#- tokens, but what would you expect %d to do with 2147483648.5?

%d expects only an integral value. If would accept other data types, should
be explicited in the documentation (as is explicited with %s, for example).

I think that here's a bug, but don't know where:

Should %d accept only integer values? So this is a bug:

>>> '%d' % 2147483647.0
'2147483647'

Should %d accept also floats, and make the conversion? So there're two bugs:

- In the doc (it's not explicited that it should accept a other data types)

- In this behaviour difference:

>>> '%d' % 2147483647.0
'2147483647'
>>> '%d' % 2147483648.0

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#1>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    '%d' % 2147483648.0
TypeError: int argument required


.	Facundo
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From eddie at replicon.com  Mon Nov 15 19:09:46 2004
From: eddie at replicon.com (Eddie Parker)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:09:46 -0700
Subject: Redirecting system output quietly
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.56.0411151901320.27753@pollux.cse.buffalo.edu>
Message-ID: <20041116001001.1CC621E4004@bag.python.org>

Look at the 'popen' modules. 

(I believe their under the os module).

-e-

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+eddie=replicon.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+eddie=replicon.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
Madhusudhanan Chandrasekaran
Sent: November 15, 2004 5:03 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Redirecting system output quietly

Hi,
  I am a newbie here. I want to know how to redirect os.system("ls -af")
to a string variable without it barfing the answer of ls -af on the
screen.

Thanks in advance,
Madhusudhanan.C
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

---
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From bill.mill at gmail.com  Sat Nov 13 12:27:02 2004
From: bill.mill at gmail.com (Bill  Mill)
Date: 13 Nov 2004 09:27:02 -0800
Subject: numarray + cPickle problem
In-Reply-To: <1100326589.669597.252570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1100326589.669597.252570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1100366822.119444.157780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

A couple more details:

I'm using Python 2.3.4 and numarray 1.1. I've now found the
numarray.array_persist module, which will let me pickle numarrays an
alternative way, but I'd still like to know what's going on here. I can
definitely pickle numarray.array objects in trivial cases.

Why doesn't Python raise an Unpickleable error? Why is it trying to
import generic?



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Wed Nov 10 13:20:42 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:20:42 -0800
Subject: [Newbie]: How to find a specified digit in a number?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.11.10.15.42.12.869973@thomas-guettler.de>
References: <dtqkd.63297$Vf.3129899@news000.worldonline.dk>
	<pan.2004.11.10.15.42.12.869973@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <41926efd$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Thomas Guettler wrote:
> Or you want to search in the string for e.g. "5":
> 
> mystring="12345"
> idx=mystring.find("3")
> if idx==-1:
>     print "not found"
> else:
>     print "Found it at index %s" % idx
> 
Actually, this should be written:

     mystring="12345"
     try:
         print "Found it at index %s" % mystring.index('3')
     except ValueError:
         print "not found"


--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 15:37:53 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:37:53 -0500
Subject: Will python ever have signalhandlers in threads?
In-Reply-To: <slrncpmejc.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrncp1bqk.kui.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<4195419b.303035081@news.oz.net>
	<slrncpgm80.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6381.1100534178.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpjcga.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.6465.1100663898.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncpmejc.rl5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <1f7befae041117123768e996b4@mail.gmail.com>

[Antoon Pardon, on thread gimmicks]
> Couldn't it be possible to have a general solution that works on
> any kind of box

Yes, because we have that now.

> and provide (or let interested parties provide) an implementation that
> is better suited for particular boxes?

For the most part, that hasn't happened.  Someone who cares enough
would need to volunteer (or fund) API redesign to make it feasible.

...

> Look, I understand perfectly. Use of signals is never my first choice.
> However there sometimes seem to be circumstances when signals
> are the lesser evil. My impression is also that the python people
> seem to have some obligation to help in debugging peoples
> programs. This is laudable in general but I also have the impression
> that this obligation puts limits on what they want to allow in the
> language.
> 
> If I hear people argueing about why some things are missing I get
> the impression something like the following argument line is followed
>
>     I don't want to be bothered by the mess that can originate from
>     ill use of such a feature, I don't want to look trough code
>     that doesn't work from someone who doesn't understand how to
>     use this feature properly. So we don't include the feature in
>     the language (or only put the C-function in).
>
> And that is something I find regretable.

Look at the other ("supply") end of the development process:  nothing
can possibly go into Python until someone wants it enough to volunteer
to do all the work, or enough to pay someone else to do all the work. 
The former is most common, but the latter has happened too.

Now in this case, who cares?  Enough to actually do it, that is?  As I
said before, my experience with signals was mostly negative, so
there's no chance I'm going to volunteer my time to advance "a
feature" I dislike and won't use.  Someone *could* pay me to work on
it, and I'd do that if I couldn't find a less objectionable way to get
fed <wink>.

Nothing gets in just because someone asks for it, or even just because
everyone asks for it.  Someone has to do the work.

Who's that someone in this case?

The only currently active contributor I can think of who cares about
signals enough to actually work on them is Michael Hudson, but his
interest seems limited to keeping the interactions been Python's GNU
readline wrapper and signals working across incompatible details of
signal semantics on Unixish boxes.  It's possible I'm wrong, and he'd
really love to work much more on signals, but feels inhibited by
Guido's well-known dislike of the beasts.

That's not what I'd bet on, though.  Historically, even the limited
signal support Python supplies has been an endless maintenance burden,
hard to compare with anything else on the low end of the
bang-for-the-buck scale; maybe with the endless battle to try to
support threads *at all* across a gazillion incompatible flavors of
HP-UX.

And because it's sitting in the volunteer-development ghetto, you bet
it would be a hard sell to try to introduce "more of the same". 
Initial volunteers often vanish, leaving their maintenance problems to
others.  I expect (and you do too, so don't act surprised <wink>) that
"new signal features" could get vetoed for that reason alone -- the
simple observation that no current long-time contributor pushes in
this direction means there's no reason to presume that long-time
support for new signal gimmicks would exist.

...

> Sure but simple Locks can't have a timeout. So if you only need locks
> with a timeout then you use Queues that can only have 1 element.
> I agree that having multiple thread accessing the same queue some
> with a timeout and others not, is strange. But I think it is less
> strange if you have multiple threads accessing the same lock, some
> with timeouts and others not.

In this case I expect it's 1000x more common to use a
threading.Condition than a Queue.Queue.  Condition.wait() supports a
timeout, and a condvar is a much more obvious model for mutual
exclusion with a timeout than is a 1-element Queue.

It's still (of course) the case that Condition.wait() with a timeout
uses the same sleep/check/loop approach in the current implementation.
 BTW, the Queue implementation in 2.4 doesn't have any timeout code of
its own; instead its timeout behavior is supplied by
Condition.wait()'s.  From a lower-level view, confining timeout
*implementation* to Condition.wait() is a good idea for pthreads
systems, where pthread_cond_timedwait() could be used pretty much
directly.


From a at a.invalid  Sat Nov 27 00:48:15 2004
From: a at a.invalid (Timo Virkkala)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 05:48:15 GMT
Subject: The use of :
In-Reply-To: <89cc6e1f.0411260953.4b6b98e7@posting.google.com>
References: <89cc6e1f.0411251858.40b6bbc7@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.26.08.33.40.219098@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<89cc6e1f.0411260953.4b6b98e7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <zyUpd.6$d74.2@read3.inet.fi>

Chang LI wrote:
> Paul Robson <autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.11.26.08.33.40.219098 at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>...
> So the : is similar to "begin" 

Correct

> and the last space line is similar to "end", right?

Nope. You don't need a space line (you mean an empty line by that, right?), 
you can just outdent one level and continue without any empty lines 
(although in the interactive interpreter you need the empty line to end the 
block on the first indentation level). So you could do:

i = 5
while i > 0:
	print i
         i = i-1
print "That's it"

 > How about
> while i > 0  :
>       print i
>       i = i-1

Works just fine. Other than the indentation, spacing is pretty much 
irrelevant in Python.

--
Timo Virkkala


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Nov 19 18:44:44 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 00:44:44 +0100
Subject: Global variables in modules/functions
References: <cnltf7$ra6$1@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>
Message-ID: <cnm0hh$d3m$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Aaron Deskins wrote:

> I'm trying to write program with a main.py and several functions
> distributed in auxiliary *.py files. I've looked through the archives on
> the 'global' keyword, but I'm still not sure how to get this right. I
> want to be able to have some variables that can be accessed/changed by
> many modules/functions.
> 
> Here's an example.
> 
> ____________
> main.py
> ____________
> import change
> n = 1
> change.change_n()
> print n
> 
> ____________
> change.py
> ____________
> def change_n():
>      global n
>      n = 2
> 
> 
> Running main.py gives this: 1. So n is not being changed when the
> function is called. I've tried adding a 'import from main *' line to

The correct syntax is

from main import *

This will only copy the binding
n = 1
and a following 
n = 2 
assignment will not affect n in the main module.

> change.py, but this only gives an error message.
> 
> Any ideas?

A clean way to share data between different modules is to introduce another
module and use a qualified name to access data in that module:

shared.py
n = 1

main.py
import shared
import change

change.change_n()
print n

change.py
import shared
def change_n():
    shared.n = 2


However, I'm not convinced that you really need that kind of global data at
all:

main.py
import change
n = 1
n = change.change_n()
print n

change.py
def change_n():
   return 2

is clearly a superior design.

Finally, what you originally requested is not impossible, just bad:

change.py
import sys

def change_n():
    sys._getframe(1).f_globals["n"] = 2

Peter






From tchur at optushome.com.au  Sat Nov 20 10:03:24 2004
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 02:03:24 +1100
Subject: R BATCH jobs from Python
In-Reply-To: <ccdb2248.0411201530.1ee3df95@posting.google.com>
References: <ccdb2248.0411201530.1ee3df95@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <419F5CBC.10603@optushome.com.au>

Benjamin Scott wrote:
> hello,
> 
> i have been attempting to run BATCH jobs on WinXP/Server2003 using
> Python.  It seems that my questions are similar to those of a previous
> OPs.  Unfortunately, what seemed like a simple question/request either
> digressed or was misinterpreted to the tune of 19 posts:
> 
> Author: Moosebumps
> Subject (1): Batch commands on Windows
> Subject (2): os.system always opens new window on Windows XP/2000
> 
> here is the operation that works, but isn't actually carried out in
> Python:
> 
> Start->Run "cmd" ***command line appears***
> 
> then i enter the following commands (i copied and pasted the whole
> session so that you can see exactly what i did):
> ******************************************************
> Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
> (C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
> 
> C:\Documents and Settings\BRdir>cd c:\Applications\R\rw1091\bin
> 
> C:\Applications\R\rw1091\bin>Rcmd BATCH c:\test.txt
> 
> C:\Applications\R\rw1091\bin>
> ******************************************************
> 
> now, the whole point here is to send the following R script to the
> program  c:\Applications\R\rw1091\bin\Rcmd.exe, i.e. the file cited as
> "c:\test.txt" contains the following code:
> 
> ********************************************************
> library(lattice)
> x<-read.csv('C:\\Data\\EData\\eFile.txt')
> a<-as.matrix(x[,1])
> b<-as.matrix(x[,2])
> c<-as.matrix(x[,3])
> X11()
> levelplot(c~a*b)
> savePlot(filename='c:\\test2',type='jpeg')
> ********************************************************
> 
> now, the procedure i have just outlined works absolutely perfect.  i
> have spent some time trying to do this from Python; this includes
> looking at posts and references from everywhere i was able to find
> them.  i still can't run an analogous procedure from python.  i have
> attempted to use os.system, the popen family.  i feel like part of the
> issue is that i can't find enough simple examples on how to use these
> tools.

Have you considered RPy, which embeds R in Python? See http://rpy.sf.net

Tim C


From Python at IvoNet.nl  Wed Nov 10 09:50:20 2004
From: Python at IvoNet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:50:20 +0100
Subject: Beginning with Classes
References: <a37cb$418cce14$53e8229a$32210@freeler.nl>
	<2v46bvF2fovnbU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<ad2e5$418e007e$53e8229a$28383@freeler.nl>
	<2v8s68F2iksm5U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <8ka4p05enfj8sk1g30fs6qcluhdq466990@4ax.com>

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 10:22:13 +0100, Stefan Axelsson
<crap1234 at hotmail.com> wrote:

>Noud Aldenhoven wrote:
>
>> I read the book too, but it doesn't dive too deep into classes.
>> But you're right! It's a good book to start. 
>
>OK. What specifically do you have a problem with? Object oriented 
>programming in general or how it's implemented in Python in particular? 
>If it's the former I'm not sure it's a Python book you're after.
>
>There ought to be plenty available on the web. In it's day I found "
>Design Patterns Elements of Reusable Object-Oriented Software"
>by Erich Gamma, Richard Helm, Ralph Johnson, and John Vlissides, helpful 
>when it came to the question of how to actually design something the "OO 
>way."
>
>But there's probably a ton of stuff out there.
>
>If you're into free books and need a deeper Python treatise there's a 
>chapter in "Dive into Python", that'll go into a bit more depth than 
>"Thinking..." but granted there isn't much OO specific in "Dive..." 
>Stilla good book though.
>
>Stefan,

YES! I agree completely!



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Mon Nov  1 19:41:41 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 16:41:41 -0800
Subject: Why is heapify linear?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5790.1099352766.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <4186cb77$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<mailman.5790.1099352766.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4186dcb3$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
> Scott David Daniels <Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org> wrote:
> 
>>I am sorry, but in the Python 2.4 description of "heapify", I find the
>>description of "Transform list x into a heap, in-place, in linear time,"
>>unbelievable.  I understand the hand-wave that makes dictionary building
>>linear (though I have a hard time with even that).  Could somebody tell
>>me what twist of logic makes "heapify" linear, except in the sense that
>>linear is coming to mean "very fast?"
> 
> 
> It has to do with the amount of work done by doing the heapify operation
> from the bottom up.
> 
> Using ugly ascii-art math, we get the following work for heapifying from
> the bottom up:
> 
>    log(n)   i*n
>     SUM    ----
>     i=1    2**i
> 
> That sum is known to converge to 2n from below (there is a simple
> picture that I can present that will prove it to you, if desired). 2n is
> O(n). Hence linear.
> 
> 
>  - Josiah
> 
I am feeling incredibly stupid over my post.  Of course this is true.
I hadn't considered the triple-at-a-time operation, and I posted w/o
reviewing the code.  I'll crawl back in my hole and quietly wipe the
egg off my face.


Embarassedly,
-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From vinay_sajip at red-dove.com  Wed Nov  3 18:15:48 2004
From: vinay_sajip at red-dove.com (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 23:15:48 +0000
Subject: New configuration module released
In-Reply-To: <VPWdnWBATKx3wxTcRVn-ug@rogers.com>
References: <2e37dc1.0411030650.ff44840@posting.google.com><4d2dnXe5XY7bmxTcRVn-rw@rogers.com>
	<mailman.5876.1099519315.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<VPWdnWBATKx3wxTcRVn-ug@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <418966A4.7000000@red-dove.com>

Dan Perl wrote:

> You're right, but my point is that for python programmers it's even better 
> if the configuration is implemented in plain python instead of using a 
> python-like syntax.  As for non-python programmers, which is where my 
> biggest concern was, both solutions are an inconvenience.

OK, but I'm not sure that completely unrestricted Python code in 
configurations is the way to go. It certainly makes it more likely that 
a developer will put things in the configuration which an end user can 
inadvertently break. If it's pure Python in the configuration, it's 
possible that the breakage will cause more damage than where a 
Python-like syntax is parsed.

> As for creating a configuration programmatically, I can do that using python 
> for the syntax (and I am already doing that).  Your syntax is better for 
> other, non-python applications that may also be interested in using these 
> configuration mechanism, but that is not important for me.  Besides, 
> non-python applications would still have to implement their own parsing and 
> formatting for this syntax.

It may not be important to you, but that's one reason why XML is so 
popular: data can be shared across platforms more easily.

> It's just an idea and I haven't put a lot of thought in it myself, but what 
> about using XML for the configuration syntax?

It's certainly possible, but very verbose for both reading and writing, 
and more error-prone if end-users can change configuration files. It's 
easy to make an XML file ill-formed through simple typing errors, like 
forgetting the / to terminate an empty tag - even experienced developers 
do this. Sometimes an XML parser can report the error several lines 
further down, depending on the DTD/schema being used.

> I probably didn't express clearly enough what I need in my initial posting. 
> Your example is for a statically defined configuration structure.  I am 
> interested in a configuration structure that can be defined dynamically.  So 
> if I load a plugin with a configuration structure that I don't know 
> beforehand, I can still create that configuration programmatically.

I only gave a simple example to illustrate possibilities. There's no 
reason why you couldn't do this with a more dynamic structure - that's 
the province of your program, not the config module.

> This is a great idea and it's very useful for me: defining the metadata as a 
> configuration file.  And your configuration module could be useful for that. 
> Thanks.  I will consider it.

Great.

> And yet, I would still like to see a generic mechanism for configuration 
> metadata.  And this is the point where I expected to see a discussion.  Am I 
> the only one seeing a need to define configuration structures with metadata? 
> I see that useful for:
>    - dynamically defined configurations like in my project
>    - sharing the same configuration structure between several applications, 
> so
>      for instance a configuration created by one application can be used by
>      another application

The problem I see is that everyone's idea of metadata will be different. 
  If you have strong and rigorous requirements in this area, the rigour 
of XML and XML schema may be what you need. It's not a goal of the 
config module to be all things to all people - it's meant to remain 
reasonably simple while still providing useful functionality, enough to 
supplant ConfigParser for those who need it.

Best regards,


Vinay Sajip


From jmeile at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 26 15:34:52 2004
From: jmeile at hotmail.com (Josef Meile)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 12:34:52 -0800
Subject: Protecting Python source
References: <f4a45085.0411260701.5859bf43@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7d06f0b7.0411261234.5c7c86bf@posting.google.com>

> I am looking for methods of deploying applications with end users so
> that the python code is tamper proof. What are my options ?
> 
> I understand I can supply .pyc or .pyo files but they can easily be
> reverse engineered I am told.
You could try to obfuscate the code with the pyobfuscate package. The
scripts will be easy to reverse, but difficult to understand. I haven't
tried it because I haven't had this need, but it shoul work:

http://www.lysator.liu.se/~astrand/projects/pyobfuscate/

Regards,
Josef


From simon.brunning at gmail.com  Tue Nov 16 11:22:01 2004
From: simon.brunning at gmail.com (Simon Brunning)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:22:01 +0000
Subject: using python with -c (as a inline execution in shell)
In-Reply-To: <a2972632.0411160744.d05557c@posting.google.com>
References: <a2972632.0411160744.d05557c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c6041116082248ba5896@mail.gmail.com>

On 16 Nov 2004 07:44:19 -0800, les ander <les_ander at yahoo.com> wrote:
> but suppose I want to read from the stdin (piped) i don't know how to do this since
> python -c "from sys import stdin; for x in stdin: print x"
> 
> gives a syntax error.

If you really must do this, there's always PyOne:
<http://www.unixuser.org/~euske/pyone/>.

Wouldn't touch it with a bargepole, myself.

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B,
simon at brunningonline.net,
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/


From mj.clift at virgin.net  Tue Nov  9 20:07:12 2004
From: mj.clift at virgin.net (Malcolm Clift)
Date: 9 Nov 2004 17:07:12 -0800
Subject: range and wx co - ords
References: <a86fb13f.0411081407.3a382a6b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a86fb13f.0411091707.11be7433@posting.google.com>

Hi All,

I have now got something approaching what I need. Could someone please
show me how to define the 'line', so rather than just the first 50
items being printed over and over it goes through the text
incrementally?


        line = text1[:50]
        for i in range(1000):
            dc.DrawText(line, 100, 100 + (i//2)*100) 


Thanks,

Malcolm


From graham__fawcett at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 19 10:21:50 2004
From: graham__fawcett at hotmail.com (graham__fawcett at hotmail.com)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 07:21:50 -0800
Subject: Named tuples
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6392.1100556222.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbg4k.13z20mj1w1o0ysN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.6511.1100727971.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnf6b7.nnqkns1c991f3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6520.1100738474.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1100803845.574499.76470@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1100877710.957483.271930@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Oops, let's try that again:

|   class namedtuplewrapper(tuple):
|       """
|       wraps an existing tuple, providing names.
|       """
|
|       _names_ = []
|
|       def __getattr__(self, name):
|           try:
|               x = self._names_.index(name)
|           except ValueError:
|               raise AttributeError, 'no such field: %s' % name
|           if x >= 0:
|               return self[x]
|
|   class namedtuple(namedtuplewrapper):
|       """
|       Sugar for a class that constructs named tuples from
|       positional arguments.
|       """
|
|       def __new__(cls, *args):
|           return tuple.__new__(cls, args)
|
|
|   if __name__ == '__main__':
|
|       # namedtuple example
|
|       class foo(namedtuple):
|           _names_ = ['one', 'two', 'three', 'four', 'five']
|
|       f = foo(1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
|       assert f.one + f.four == f.five
|
|
|       # wrapper example
|
|       class loctime(namedtuplewrapper):
|           _names_ = [
|               'year', 'month', 'day',
|               'hour', 'min', 'sec',
|               'wday', 'yday', 'isdst'
|           ]
|
|       import time
|       print time.localtime()
|       loc = loctime(time.localtime())
|       print loc.year, loc.month, loc.day
|
|       # arbitrary naming...
|       loc._names_ = ['a', 'b', 'c']
|       print loc.a

-- Graham



From cliechti at gmx.net  Fri Nov  5 19:37:14 2004
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 00:37:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python for 8/16 Bit MSDOS ( 486 / 586 / K5 / K6/ Beck-IPC )
	processors.
References: <418B6158.3C7BD9B1@iee.lu>
Message-ID: <Xns9599107F5DCDEcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.4>

Manfred Schwab <msw at iee.lu> wrote in news:418B6158.3C7BD9B1 at iee.lu:

> Hi there,
> which versions of python are usable under MS-DOS 5.0 oder 6.22 or Dr.
> DOS.
> 
> I want to use it under a industrial environment to collect measuring
> data like temperature, moist and signalconditions with a Beck industrial
> PC. Did somebody try this already ? Is there a certain URL where i can
> get further information.

if you can use 32 bit extensions in your environment:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/bdeck/pythond.htm

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From falko.zurell at init.de  Mon Nov 29 07:05:44 2004
From: falko.zurell at init.de (Falko Zurell)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:05:44 +0100
Subject: error import _bsddb module
Message-ID: <310hjnF34vq3jU1@uni-berlin.de>

Hi Newsgroup,

I installed a python 2.3.4 on my linux box and some Berkeley DB version 
(4.2.21 and 4.1.25). Then I installed also the BSDDB3 package for python 
linked against the given older version of DB.
The I tried to run a program (Current Servers cadmin) which makes 
oviously use of bsddb but this program keeps failing with this message:

 >./cadmin --help
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "./cadmin", line 40, in ?
     import channel
   File "/opt/init/local/apps/current-1.4.4/share/current/channel.py", 
line 10, in ?
     import bsddb
   File 
"/opt/init/local/apps/python-2.3.4/lib/python2.3/bsddb/__init__.py", 
line 40, in ?
     import _bsddb
ImportError: No module named _bsddb
[ 01:02 ] wwwadm at rsh01=/opt/init/local/apps/current-1.4.4/sbin:


Has anyone an idea how I can fix this?

Thanks

Falko


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Nov 30 10:09:33 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:09:33 -0500
Subject: Get Special Folders (ie Desktop location)
In-Reply-To: <52d372cd.0411300047.6329dfa4@posting.google.com>
References: <52d372cd.0411300047.6329dfa4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <coi2ed$rkv$3@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Colin Steadman wrote:
> I'm just starting out writing Python scripts (in PSP), and need to
> find the location of Windows special folders such as 'My Documents'
> and 'Desktop' so that I can save files in the right place.  Is there
> any method I can use in Python to get these?
> 
> If I were doing this in VBScript it'd be:
> 
>   Dim    WSHShell
>   Set    WSHShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
>   msgbox WSHShell.SpecialFolders("Desktop")

Use COM:

 >>> from win32com.client import Dispatch
 >>> w = Dispatch('WScript.Shell')
 >>> w.SpecialFolders('Desktop')
u'C:\\Documents and Settings\\Colin\\Desktop'

-Peter

P.S.: Yes, I edited the result to look like yours might. ;-)


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  5 02:41:31 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:41:31 +0100
Subject: How do you execute an OS X application (bundle) from Python?
References: <70bb9f8d.0411040250.1f4ac1a@posting.google.com>
	<69cbbef2.0411041513.120fc039@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gmrrsj.7ljqd6f3sgkfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

has <has.temp2 at virgin.net> wrote:

> dfh at forestfield.co.uk (David Hughes) wrote in message
news:<70bb9f8d.0411040250.1f4ac1a at posting.google.com>...
> > For example, in Python in a Nutshell, Alex Martelli shows how you can
> > run a Windows (notepad.exe) or Unix-like (/bin/vim) text editor using
> >       os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, editor, [textfile])
> > But how would you call the OS X text editor /Applications/TextEdit.app
> > - which appears to be a whole directory inside /Applications?
> 
> Using os.system to execute open is pretty simple, as other folks have
> pointed out.

...but doesn't do the P_WAIT: just like using open at the Terminal
prompt, it immediately continues with your code even as TextEdit is
starting up.  The idea of that snippet is to let the user edit a
textfile for configuration, while until the user is done editing, then
read the textfile etc etc.  And it works file on the Mac with vi too.

But apparently the P_WAIT is not implemented in the Mac version of
Python like on the Windows version -- to *WAIT* until the app is done
before continuing.  So, it looks as if one will have to put in more
complicated code in that case:-(.


> replacement. Much improved, though unfinished, AE support is available
> from my site:
> 
> http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/appscript.html
   ...
> from appscript import *
> app('TextEdit.app').open(FSSpec(pathToFile))

OK, but how does one handle the *waiting*, so as to proceed only when
TextEdit is done editing that document?

"Spawning an external editor and waiting until the user is done using it
before proceeding" is an important architectural pattern (well examined
and analyzed in Raymond's "Art of Unix Programming", like many others).

Ideally it should be the external editor of choice for the user;
foisting vi on poor innocent machistas just because it's easy to wait
for THAT and hard to wait for TextEdit would seem mean;-)...


Alex


From abpillai at gmail.com  Fri Nov  5 02:29:42 2004
From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 4 Nov 2004 23:29:42 -0800
Subject: Modification to asyncore.py to support threaded event loop
References: <8548c5f3.0411040053.15644bfe@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5924.1099592900.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8548c5f3.0411042329.109c23c1@posting.google.com>

I tried your code and this is the result...


Exception in thread Thread-1:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/threading.py", line 436, in __bootstrap
    self.run()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/threading.py", line 416, in run
    self.__target(*self.__args, **self.__kwargs)
  File "urlserver.py", line 205, in asyncore_loop
    map = asyncore.map
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'map'

asyncore does not have an attribute named 'map', only socket_map.
'map' is an argument to ascynore.loop function, again not its
attribute.

Did you try this code out before posting it here? 

Also, asyncore.loop has a while loop inside it, and you are adding
another while loop on top. Clearly your exit condition, if it works is
going to only exit the outer while loop, not the inner one. I dont
think it is going to work.


-Anand

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.5924.1099592900.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Pillai) wrote:
> > 
> > If you have ever used the asyncore module, you will realize that it's
> > event loop does not have a programmable exit condition. It keeps
> > looping till the channels in its socket map (a dictionary) are closed
> > and don't have any pending reads/writes.
> 
> With the asyncore that will be included with Python 2.4, loop() has a
> 'count' argument.  Your 'programmable exit condition' is simple...
> 
> while not exit_condition_satisfied:
>     asyncore.loop(count=1)
> 
> 
> > If you are using Python threads in your application, by using either
> > the threading or thread modules, adding asyncore capability on top of
> > it is a bit tricky. The moment you call asyncore.loop after
> > initializing your asyncore based client/server, it takes over the main
> > thread. Hence, if you want to mix threaded classes (derived from
> > threading.Thread) and asyncore in one program, the only recourse is to
> > create and initialize all your thread objects first and call
> > asyncore.loop as the last function in your main thread.
> > 
> > However, with a small hack it is possible to get asyncore event loop
> > running in its own thread, as shown below.
> 
> Here's an easier way to get asyncore running in its own thread, with
> nearly all the functionality you mention, without having to subclass
> Thread.
> 
> def asyncore_loop(exit_condition, timeout=30.0,
>                   use_poll=False, map=None):
>     if map is None:
>         map = asyncore.map
>     while map and not exit_condition:
>         asyncore.loop(timeout=30.0, use_poll=False, map=map, count=1)
> 
> exit_condition = []
> 
> threading.Thread(target=asyncore_loop, args=(exit_condition,)).start()
> 
> #to kill the thread...
> exit_condition.append(None)
> 
> 
> > The following is a mixin class, which derives from threading.Thread
> > and also overrides asyncore.loop in its 'run()' method.
> 
> [snip unnecessary code]
> 
> > Now you can initialize your asyncore based clients/servers and instead
> > of calling 'asyncore.loop', do it as follows,
> 
> See the snippet I provide above.
> 
> 
> > Perhaps this is worth a PEP for inclusion in Python 2.4?
> 
> Module and/or functionality additions do not require a PEP (from what I
> understand).  Changing the behavior of the language, adding a builtin,
> etc., that requires a PEP.
> 
> It is not going to make it into Python 2.4.  How would I know this? 
> Because "no new functionality after the beta".  We're on beta 2, and
> even small functionality additions that were pre-approved (but not
> implemented) are not making it into 2.4.
> 
> What about for Python 2.5?  I doubt it would be added there either.  The
> functionality is very simple to implement if you know what you are doing,
> and doesn't require copying the internals of asyncore.loop to make it
> happen.
> 
>  - Josiah


From theller at python.net  Wed Nov  3 15:50:49 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 21:50:49 +0100
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
	<du7u0s8s0oh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<4187b7a1$0$2383$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<QtOdnVh_Pq7-SRrcRVn-2g@speakeasy.net>
	<1099428292.622129.83160@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k6t2y7va.fsf@python.net>

"Graham  Fawcett" <graham.fawcett at gmail.com> writes:

> A.M. Kuchling wrote:
>> And it should be noted I can already install Python packages with
>> dependencies by running a command such as "apt-get install
>> python2.3-gnome2", for example.
>
> Great point. Collectively, apt-get, yum et. al. and the underlying
> package models will get far more development time, more polishing and
> more real-world use than a PyPAN ever would.
>
> Perhaps what Python needs is for Win32 to grow a working apt-get...;-)

The distutils' created bdist_wininst installers in principle have all
that is needed to build something like that.  Except command line flags
for silent installation, maybe.  But since a silent installer has no
need to display a user interface, it would be simple to write a
bdist_wininst_silent in pure Python.

Thomas


From mauriceling at acm.org  Sun Nov  7 05:37:53 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 21:37:53 +1100
Subject: why python is slower than java?
In-Reply-To: <1gmvis9.1p0u31qgoderwN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<wdWdnZ-fWZxWlBDcRVn-vw@rogers.com>
	<1gmueqr.1hs16lxfjegpuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6038.1099804573.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmvis9.1p0u31qgoderwN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <418DFB01.1000800@acm.org>

Mainly to Alex and the rest of the adjitated community,

[snip about Melbourne club scene]

I do understand what you meant. There are restrictions in giving out 
data (codes) in many cases and I seek your understanding.

Nevertheless, I do feel that you had unfairly made use of this case to 
voice out your accumulated dissatisfaction with answering newbies 
questions.

In later parts of this thread (after your post), it was suggested that 
my errorous impressions might have been formed by books and publications 
(such as "learning python", as suggested)...... I do not seek to place 
blame on anyone for my misconceptions. But considering a person trying 
to learn a new programming language, it is common that the person takes 
in what is presented in the face, especially from books such as, 
"Learning python" and "Python, the complete reference".

> Does this imply you now believe that the unquestioned-assumptions behind
> your "why" questions were unfounded?
> 
Now I will say that Python is comparable to Java in terms of disk I/O.


> 
> Forming a wrong impression is always a possibility.  It's proceeding to
> take it for granted as an obvious fact, that is quite questionable.  If
> you had phrased your observation in terms such as "I have gotten the
> impression, without having done any measurement myself, that" etc, the
> reactions would have been vastly different; your choice to express
> yourself by implying an unquestionable fact existed and only required
> explanations of its reasons, is a good part of the reaction's cause.
> 
My apologies for raising your blood pressure, take care.

> 
> 
> False: not all knowledge in the world can be usefully embodied in print
> (text, images, even videos and sound recordings actualy).  An important
> part of human knowledge is experiential, and only a shadow of that
> important part can be captured in libraries, including multimedia ones.
> 
> Many universities, as a part of their mission, conduct research and
> therefore presumably generate new knowledge.  This entirely self-evident
> and obvious fact, even by itself, makes your assertion doubly absurd:
> "all knowledge is out there" readily implies there is no knowledge to be
> added, and "all universities are complete waste of money" similarly
> implies no university is generating new knowledge, or what they do
> generate is utterly worthless.

Perhaps I should rephase it as known knowledge so far.
> 
> Your assertion that "by my argument" (which had never touched anywhere
> upon the research role of universities) research is nonexistent, futile,
> or entirely worthless, is at the same time absurd and deeply insulting.
> If and when I want to criticize university research, I will do so
> myself, and I do not AT ALL appreciate this attempt to put words in my
> mouth, even though any reader with a 3-digits IQ can see it as the
> insulting absurdity it is.
> 
> If we stick to the _teaching_ role of universities, the reasons my
> arguments imply nothing like you're stating are both more interesting
> and subtler.  On one hand, there is the experiential side of knowledge.
> By conducting experiments in a laboratory under proper guidance, even
> though those experiments are not novel, students acquire knowledge
> experientially -- a very different learning mechanism from reading books
> and articles, or listening to lectures.  Of course, good high schools
> have laboratories etc, too, but in University, at least in scientific
> and technical disciplines, the experiential learning process _should_
> blossom to a far higher degree (if it doesn't -- if a university skimps
> on labs and overwhelms students with just books and lectures -- then
> that may well be a valid ground for criticism, _of that particular
> university's choice in didactics_, of course, not "of all
> universities").  In other disciplines, experiential learning may be less
> obvious, but if the university is any good, it will be there.
> 
> And then, there is the issue of selection and structuring.  I have
> posted about that recently, in a thread asking whether there was a book
> about large-scale software development with Python, and you can easily
> look it up on google groups.  To summarize: I have lots of materials on
> the subject.  I find I'm easily able to organize these materials into
> courses and workshops that are specifically aimed at an identified group
> of students, with certain backgrounds and interests.  Organizing the
> same material into a _book_ is a far harder task, one which I can't take
> the time off to undertake at present... which ties back to a _part_ of
> the reason why not all knowledge is in books or other printed or
> otherwise 'frozen' (recorded, filmed, ...) forms.  A vast majority of
> the materials I collected IS out there -- over the years, I've posted a
> goodly fraction of it.  But it's generally unselected and unstructured,
> making the learning task far more daunting than proper structuring and
> selection can potentially make it.
> 
> A good university course has selection and structuring, and is
> interactive in a way a book can never be, thus potentially making the
> s&s more appropriate and effective for the specific individual students
> who are taking that course wrt books (or some other well-organized
> subset of info from the net).  Of course, if you throw 500 students at a
> poor professor, no matter how good he is, his ability to teach a really
> good course will be impaired -- smaller classes are MUCH better that way
> (another valid criticism of the way many universities are structured).
> 
> Usenet does have the interactivity advantage, but normally not the
> structuring one, with rare exceptions, and only to some extent the
> selection one.  Thus, it can complement rather than substitute for
> books, courses, and information search on the raw net.  It has little
> experiential value, though not zero -- _some_ of the interaction on it
> does work to stimulate and vaguely guide/aim some experiences.
> 
> 
> 
>>As mentioned, the discussion is heading else where and my misconceptions
>>cleared before your replies. If I've indeed forgotten, my sincere 
>>apologies and hereby thank you for your time and efforts.
> 
> 
> Thanks, this is appreciated.  I take it then that you do not any longer
> opine that on disk-I/O intensive programs Python is self-evidently
> slower than Java?
> 
> 
>>You still have the right to remain solemn.
> 
> 
> Heh, nice.  Well, it's a right I surely exercise far more often than the
> more traditional one of remaining silent;-).
> 
> 
> Alex

All in all, through all these discussions, I can safely assert that 
Python and Java are comparable in disk I/O. And a part of the original 
misconceptions might have been formed possibly out-dated printed 
materials which are still references for new python programmers. It is 
then my concern that such misconceptions may be perpentuated.

I admit and apologise for my poor phrasing of questions which sparked 
this chain of events. We had all lost some cool along the way and some 
harsh words flew. Alex, I do hope you will accept my apologies. I 
suppose I am pissed off when the flare is targetted towards myself and 
not the situation. Anyway, my apologies...

maurice


From ch.pingel at web.de  Thu Nov 18 07:20:08 2004
From: ch.pingel at web.de (Christoph Pingel)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:20:08 +0100
Subject: regex-strategy for finding *similar* words?
In-Reply-To: <1100774319.18258.249.camel@bucket.localnet>
References: <1100774319.18258.249.camel@bucket.localnet>
Message-ID: <a06100502bdc23b182754@[80.139.60.165]>

Hi all,

an interesting problem for regex nerds.
I've got a thesaurus of some hundred words and a moderately large 
dataset of about 1 million words in some thousand small texts. Words 
from the thesaurus appear at many places in my texts, but they are 
often misspelled, just slightly different from the thesaurus.

Now I'm looking for the best strategy to match the appearence of my 
thesaurus items in the texts. Do I have to build patterns from all my 
thesaurus items for the expected misspellings, or is there a more 
general approach possible? I tried to add '?.?' to each letter in a 
thesaurus item, but this is much too weak (I get a lot of false 
positives because this expression for example matches any possible 
substring). Adding word boundries helps a little, but sometimes a 
concept spans two words, and this could be spelled with a space char 
*or* a dash. In this case, I'm back to matching almose everything. 
Any ideas?
BTW, efficiency is not absolutely required, it's not meant to work 
for realtime requests.

TIA,
best regards,
Christoph


From mefjr75 at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 19 17:12:14 2004
From: mefjr75 at hotmail.com (M.E.Farmer)
Date: 19 Nov 2004 14:12:14 -0800
Subject: Importing files other than *.py
References: <mailman.6571.1100822530.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <18282ecb.0411191412.26af067c@posting.google.com>

Ed Leafe wrote in message:
> If I have a Python script in a file named "burp.zz", is there any way 
> to import it into another script as you can with files named with the 
> .py extension?
> 	I looked at the imp module, but was not able to make it do what I 
> wanted. Is this possible, or is the py/pyc extension required?
>   Ed Leafe
Hello Ed,
You can import as usuall if you do this:
Save this to your path.

# zz_import.py
import imputil

# define your custom file handler
def handle_zz(filepath, fileinfo, filename):
    sourcefile = open(filepath, 'r')
    data = sourcefile.read()
    sourcefile.close()
    return 0, compile(data, filepath, 'exec'),{}

importer = imputil.ImportManager()
importer.add_suffix('.zz', handle_zz)
importer.install()
# end zz_import.py

Now do this in your code:
import zz_import #now you can import zz files
import burp

If module is not found it will raise an ImportError.

HTH,
    M.E.Farmer


From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Sun Nov 21 14:09:41 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:09:41 +0100
Subject: generic object - moving toward PEP
In-Reply-To: <aJtnd.118100$HA.81413@attbi_s01>
References: <aJtnd.118100$HA.81413@attbi_s01>
Message-ID: <30c7flF2umgtjU2@uni-berlin.de>

Steven Bethard wrote:
> So I thought I'd try to summarize a few things here and maybe we can 
> move toward filing a PEP.  I'm not really sure I'm the right person to 
> champion it because, as I've mentioned, I usually eventually replace 
> generic objects with concrete classes, but I'm certainly willing to do 
> some of the work writing it up, etc.  If you're interested in helping 
> me, let me know (off-list).

+1 on this. Would be great (would it be possible to add to 2.4 still?)

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Nov 30 06:59:54 2004
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 03:59:54 -0800
Subject: [OT] Re: SysLogHandler is drivin me nuts PEBCAC
References: <f11c8440.0411250122.c600af1@posting.google.com>	<mailman.6782.1101394046.5135.python-list@python.org>	<f11c8440.0411260207.555d2cc0@posting.google.com>	<mailman.6821.1101494250.5135.python-list@python.org>	<f11c8440.0411290154.75eeea88@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6878.1101748438.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0411300359.291c2822@posting.google.com>

Jan Dries <jan.dries at dcube-resource.be> wrote in message news:<mailman.6878.1101748438.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Slightly OT, but regarding the title, shouldn't it be PEBKAC, since it's 
> keyboard and not ceyboard?
> 

PEBCAC: Problem Exists Between Chair And Computer


From pyle_michael at emc.com  Tue Nov  2 11:17:32 2004
From: pyle_michael at emc.com (Michael Pyle)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:17:32 -0800 
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
Message-ID: <96F3EC4BDF504540BB9715CBE9DACB8B0FA6012C@pa-mail1.legato.com>

>> 
>> Strong types provide strong protection for data types as their
>> abstraction; weak types allow you to operate on data "behind the
>> wall of abstraction".  A Smalltalk programmer would say that
>> Python is more weakly typed than Smalltalk for user-defined types.
>
>Never used smalltalk, so help me with understanding this:
>Do you mean by that that python allows alteration of members 
>of an object,
>thus circumvening possible methods that should be used for 
>that? Or, to put
>it in an other way: do you consider the lack of a privacy 
>policy of members
>as "weak"?
>
>If this is the case: I personally wouldn't call that "weaker" 
>- python just
>allows for more default-messages to be accepted by an object - 
>if you want
>better privacy for your members, use slots and properties. But 
>this is of
>coures not totally safe - as it is not in java c++.
>

Perhaps he is refering to the ability to change the class of an instance at
runtime. If you can't do that in Smalltalk (all other things being equal),
I'd say that would indicate weaker typing.

--mike
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From FETCHMAIL-DAEMON at alumnux.com  Fri Nov 12 12:04:26 2004
From: FETCHMAIL-DAEMON at alumnux.com (FETCHMAIL-DAEMON at alumnux.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:34:26 +0530
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <200411121704.WAA05600@alumnux.com>

Some addresses were rejected by the MDA fetchmail forwards to.

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From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Nov  9 18:52:16 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 00:52:16 +0100
Subject: putting processes called by python shell script in background
References: <mailman.6181.1100030497.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmrl7f$1at$05$3@news.t-online.com>

> Another question is that I haven't been able to find in the documentation
> how I can run these processes in the background. Where can I find pythons
> version of & ?

os.spawn* or the popen-module are what you're looking for.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From kmcbrearty at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 20 08:34:02 2004
From: kmcbrearty at yahoo.com (Kevin McBrearty)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 05:34:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Reading Formatted Text File
Message-ID: <20041120133402.12675.qmail@web14026.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello All,

I'm trying to read a formatted text of strings and
floats.  I have looked through previous posts and
couldn't deciper a good method.  I'm new to python so
any suggestions would be helpful.

Regards,
        Kevin

solid SIMPLEBLOCK
  facet normal 0.000000e+00 0.000000e+00 -1.000000e+00
    outer loop
      vertex 1.000000e+00 -1.000000e+00 0.000000e+00
      vertex -1.000000e+00 -1.000000e+00 0.000000e+00
      vertex -1.000000e+00 1.000000e+00 0.000000e+00
    endloop
  endfacet


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! 
http://my.yahoo.com 
 



From djdennie69 at hotmail.com  Fri Nov  5 08:13:16 2004
From: djdennie69 at hotmail.com (Dennis Hotson)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 00:13:16 +1100
Subject: Add a file to a compressed tarfile
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.05.13.13.16.645896@hotmail.com>

Hi,

I'm trying to write a function that adds a file-like-object to a
compressed tarfile...  eg ".tar.gz" or ".tar.bz2"

I've had a look at the tarfile module but the append mode doesn't support
compressed tarfiles... :(

Any thoughts on what I can do to get around this?

Cheers!


From pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com  Sun Nov 14 11:48:16 2004
From: pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com (Pekka Niiranen)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 18:48:16 +0200
Subject: Encoding confusion, please help
Message-ID: <41978cdd$0$799$39db0f71@news.song.fi>

Hi,

Probing my system from Python 2.3.4 gives

 >>> import locale, sys
 >>> locale.getdefaultlocale()
('fi_FI', 'cp1252')
 >>> locale.getpreferredencoding()
'cp1252'
 >>> sys.getdefaultencoding()
'iso-8859-1'

Manual says:

locale.getpreferredencoding():
Return the encoding used for text data, according to user preferences...

sys.getdefaultencoding()
Return the name of the current default string encoding
used by the Unicode implementation

When should I use locale.getpreferredencoding() and when
sys.getdefaultencoding()?

Why two different encodings 'cp1252' and 'iso-8859-1' are provided
for my Windows 2000 system?

-pekka-





From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Nov  9 07:52:05 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 07:52:05 -0500
Subject: Python OS
In-Reply-To: <418FE518.6000306@gmx.de>
References: <418FE518.6000306@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <4190BD75.8040105@cloudthunder.com>

Kay Schluehr wrote:

>> / Richard Blackwood wrote:
>
> /
>
>> What I do not quite understand is the overall assertion that 
>> low-level aspects of OS design can not be simulated.  Interrupts were 
>> much discussed, but I ask: can one not simulate interrupts?  It seems 
>> absurd to me that this would be impossible.  
>
>
> This is indeed trivial. It can be reduced to the statement that the 
> Python language is Turing-complete. What remains unclear in this 
> discussion is the perspective on "Python". Somewhere we have to leave 
> the sim in order to run a concrete
> system. 

What does this mean?  Run a "concrete system"?

> The different high level representations of the concept "hardware 
> interrupt" have to be projected onto one and only one that is feasible 
> by the machine. If I interpret Your concerns correctly, You obtain a 
> greater flexibility on the sim-level, which should influence again the 
> "real" OS machine code?

If possible but not a necessity.

> The model of this relationship is Psyco in the PyPy realm: being 
> itself a Python program, that generates machine code on the fly that 
> drives again the interpreter, that runs Psyco. But this tangled 
> hierarchy in which OS and Python-Interpreter drive each other may
> be my own fantasy, that has nothing to do with Your "prototyping" 
> intention
> in the closer sense ... ?

It may have a home in my intentions, but a splendid fantasy regardless.

>
> Regards       Kay
>
>
>
>
>
- Richard B.


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Thu Nov 11 04:47:50 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 11 Nov 2004 01:47:50 -0800
Subject: web hosting with Python
References: <3cccb1d8.0411101416.690960c3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0411110147.69ef6800@posting.google.com>

pynode at centrum.cz (MJR) wrote in message news:<3cccb1d8.0411101416.690960c3 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi,
> anybody could recommend web hosting company which offer professional
> reseller package with Python, preferable located in Europe?
> 
> Thanks,
> Mike

http://www.sapphiresoft.co.uk
are very good. (Good python support, python 2.3.4).

There is also http://www.xennos.com who are non-european.

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From meng.yan at gmail.com  Tue Nov 23 22:58:31 2004
From: meng.yan at gmail.com (Mike Meng)
Date: 23 Nov 2004 19:58:31 -0800
Subject: Is there a consensus on how to check a polymorphic instance?
In-Reply-To: <-sSdnZs3heYawz7cRVn-iA@rogers.com>
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<KrKdnXvgGaP_Jz_cRVn-pg@rogers.com>
	<1101189570.958016.283130@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<-sSdnZs3heYawz7cRVn-iA@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1101268711.261729.54980@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

> I come from a very conservative background in software development
> and strong checks are deeply rooted in my mind.

So do I, Dan.

I just can't imagine a `wild'  object whose interface is valid can
truely do the right things. While in fact, when I typing this word, I
realize we can't ensure the internal protocol will be obeyed even when
the object IS-A base class instance.

Maybe it's time to rethink.

It seems to me the virtue of dynamic langauge is, if it looks like a
cat, it's a cat.  But the problem is still there: how do you know what
it looks like before you treat it as a cat? isinstance(), , as Steve
state, is too rigid.



From t at t.com  Fri Nov 19 05:02:51 2004
From: t at t.com (factory)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:02:51 GMT
Subject: Events
Message-ID: <MPG.1c08708d5ec6746c989688@news-server>

  Anyone want to comment on what they think of this following bit of a 
simple event framework?
  Are there any really obvious things I should be doing with this code 
that stop me from getting bitten on the arse in the future?


class Talker:
    def __init__( self ):
        self.listeners= []
        
    def AddListener( self, event, listener ):
        self.listeners.append( [ event, listener ] )

    def RemoveListener( self, event, listener ):
        for i, ( e,l ) in enumerate( self.listeners ):
            if (e == event ) and ( l==listener ):
                self.listeners.pop( i )
    
    def Talk( self, event, *args ):
        for i in self.listeners:
            evt, listener= i
            if evt == event:
                listener( *args )


class Listener:
    def HeardSomething( self, message ):
        print 'Listener.HeardSomething'
        print message

class FoobarTalker( Talker ):
    importantEvent= 42
    
    def SomethingHappened( self, something ):
        self.Talk( FoobarTalker.importantEvent, something )
    
    
    
l= Listener()
t= FoobarTalker()

t.AddListener( FoobarTalker.importantEvent, l.HeardSomething )
t.SomethingHappened( 'something' )
t.RemoveListener( FoobarTalker.importantEvent, l.HeardSomething )


-Factory


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Tue Nov 30 06:11:45 2004
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 03:11:45 -0800
Subject: documentation for PyArg_ParseTupleAndKeywords
References: <NGOqd.485972$D%.108119@attbi_s51>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0411300311.62f97ea4@posting.google.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<NGOqd.485972$D%.108119 at attbi_s51>...
> I'm just starting to play around with the Python source.  (Specifically, 
> I'm looking at adding a key argument to max/min like sorted has.)  Can 
> anyone direct me to the documentation on how 
> PyArg_ParseTupleAndKeywords, etc. work?  In particular, I can't figure 
> out how the format arg to vgetargskeywords should be specified...
> 

Well I just fired up the doco gadget and pasted
"PyArg_ParseTupleAndKeywords" into the Search box and the 2nd
reference it came up with was this:

manual: Python/C API Reference Manual
section: 5.5 Parsing arguments and building values 

The 1st, 3rd & 4th references were examples of calling it. 

Where were _you_ looking?

If you want a few :-) more examples, cd to the Modules directory of
your Python source tree and grep PyArg_Parse *.c


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Nov 23 08:58:01 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:58:01 +0100
Subject: PIL QUESTION
References: <BAY17-DAV11789D3318A94BAC585CA1C3C40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <cnvfla$627$1@sea.gmane.org>

"israel diaz" wrote:

> for x in range(0,10):
>     draw.text((20,x*51.2),"hola mundo",font=fm, fill="white")

> But I have a question how I can aligned to the other side in the right of the image

align what?  the text?  just use textsize, and subtract the width from the
X coordinate:

    for x in range(0,10):
        s = "hola mundo"
        w, h = draw.textsize(s, font=fm)
        draw.text((20+X-w,x*51.2), s, font=fm, fill="white")

</F> 





From mwm at mired.org  Fri Nov  5 17:42:06 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 16:42:06 -0600
Subject: sys.stdout  .>_<.
References: <cmfj0e$gcp$1@netnews.hinet.net>
	<418b7e2f$0$30017$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <x77jozsytd.fsf@guru.mired.org>

[Format repaired]

Pierre Barbier de Reuille <pierre.barbier at cirad.fr> writes:
> Leon a ?crit :
>> import os,sys
>> a = os.fdopen(sys.stdout.fileno(),"w")
>> b = os.fdopen(sys.stdout.fileno(),"w")
>> a.write("test1 ")
>> b.write("test2 ")
>> stdout result is
>> test1 test2
>> but use general file object such as...
>> a = open("test.txt","w")
>> b = open("test.txt","w")
>> a.write("test1")
>> b.write("test2")
>> the "test.txt" file content is
>> test2
>> how to do this result to sys.stdout
> It's not possible !

Yup.

> stdout is usually a pipe ... and you cannot go back in a pipe ...
> Try with any pipe you should have the same result.

Actually, his second example didn't "go back". The two file pointers
started at the beginning of the file. The first write writes "test1"
into the file starting at the beginning. The second write writes
"test2" at the file starting at the beginning, overwriting the results
of the first write.

> The only way toi achieve this is to assume an ANSI terminal and to use
> ANSI codes to go back ("\r" to go at the beginning of the line "^h" to
> go back one char)

The other altnerative is the curses module.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Sat Nov  6 10:24:09 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 16:24:09 +0100
Subject: Python OS
References: <mailman.6002.1099751035.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cmin1n$500$02$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.6003.1099752590.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmiorc$j4b$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.6005.1099754306.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmiqao$5s8$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Benji York wrote:

> Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>> Hm. I'll reread them myself and see if what has been achieved in this
>> field. But I seriously doubt that someone took a python interpreter and
>> started writing an OS.
> 
> I am aware of at least one attempt.  See
> http://cleese.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/moin.cgi and the mailing list
> archive.  They managed to boot a specially modified VM and run simple
> Python programs.  Unfortunately the project was abandoned about a year
> ago.

And it backs my assertions:

--------------
Code that is written in either Assembly Language, Boa (see BoaPreprocessor)
or C is often referred to here (and in mailing list discussions) as ABC
Code. (Coincidently, "ABC" is one of the languages that Python was
originally based on) 


Different components of Cleese live in different layers: 


Layer 1
start-up code, low-level hardware services and any library code required by
Python virtual machine - ABC code 

Layer 2
the Python virtual machine - C code 

Layer 3
the kernel and modules - Python code 

Layer 4
user-level applications - Python code 
---------------

http://cleese.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/CleeseArchitecture

So the lowest layer _is_ written in assembler, C or something else that's
allowing for pythonesque source but generates assembler. That was precisely
my point. 



-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From lawrence at quicklizard.com  Wed Nov 17 07:28:08 2004
From: lawrence at quicklizard.com (Lawrence Hudson)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:28:08 +0000
Subject: COM/IIS permissions question
References: <20041117004310.22097.00000923@mb-m06.aol.com>
Message-ID: <cnfg4d$jd$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>

Andrew Burton wrote:

> Anyone know where else I can find instructions for "Launching OLE Servers
> from ISAPI Extensions"(1). I followed those instructions, even went so far
> as to give a few other accounts permission, but my Python -- that's Python
> 2.2 -- script keeps given me the following error:
> 
> [error]
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "D:\JAROD\programming\python\pycgitunes\pycgitunes.py", line 12, in
>   ?
>     iTunes = win32com.client.Dispatch("iTunes.Application")
>   File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\client\__init__.py", line
>   92, in
> Dispatch
>     dispatch, userName =
> dynamic._GetGoodDispatchAndUserName(dispatch,userName,clsctx)
>   File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line
>   81, in
> _GetGoodDispatchAndUserName
>     return (_GetGoodDispatch(IDispatch, clsctx), userName)
>   File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line
>   72, in
> _GetGoodDispatch
>     IDispatch = pythoncom.CoCreateInstance(IDispatch, None, clsctx,
> pythoncom.IID_IDispatch)
> pywintypes.com_error: (-2146959355, 'Server execution failed', None, None)
> 
> [/error]
> 
> Here's the code I'm using, in case anyone's curious -- this is my first,
> REAL Python program, so maybe it's just a glitch. Hoever, a thread from
> mail.python.org's archives(2) and the fact that it works from an
> Interactive shell makes me think that the ISAPI/COM security problem is
> the key. Anyway, code...
> 
> [code]
> 
> # Libraries
> import cgi
> import cgitb
> import win32com.client
> 
> # COM stuff
> iTunes = win32com.client.Dispatch("iTunes.Application")
> 
> # global variables
> form = cgi.FieldStorage()
> 
> #####
> # Subroutines
> 
> # main code
> cgitb.enable()
> 
> print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"
> print "Hello, world"
> 
> [/code]
> 
> Any help would be appreciated -- any IIS/Python tips especially. Thanks!
> 
> ---
> 
> 1. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q156223/
> 
> 2. http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/1999-November/015411.html
> 
> Andrew Burton - tuglyraisin at aol dot com
> Felecia Station on Harvestgain - Jarod Godel in Second Life
Its been a while since I did this sort of stuff but you need initialise COM
before using any COM facilities. Something like:

import pythoncom
pythoncom.OleInitialize()

Lawrence



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Nov 19 14:49:49 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:49:49 -0800
Subject: returning unordered keyword arguments from a function (WAS: Are
 multiple return values really harmful?)
In-Reply-To: <BYpnd.118485$R05.104345@attbi_s53>
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.6511.1100727971.5135.python-list@python.org>	<8ef9bea6.0411180831.e44ae56@posting.google.com>	<e47nd.630528$8_6.343583@attbi_s04>
	<mailman.6562.1100809213.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xg8nd.107946$HA.41832@attbi_s01>
	<8ef9bea6.0411190633.4da78912@posting.google.com>
	<BYpnd.118485$R05.104345@attbi_s53>
Message-ID: <10psjbrc85hjvb5@corp.supernews.com>

Steven Bethard wrote:

> [snip a bunch of good arguments for including generic objects]
>
> It does sound like there's some support for putting something like 
> this into the language.  My feeling is that the right place to start 
> would be to put such an object into the collections module.  (If 
> necessary, it could get moved to builtins later.)
>
> Is this something a PEP should be written for?


It would need a PEP before it could have a chance of being included in 
the standard lib.  And if it gets rejected, at least you'd then have a 
record of some rationale for *not* having a standard Generic/Bunch class. 

So, yeah, if you want this to be anything other than an ephemeral Usenet 
conversation, a PEP would be the next step, I think.  :)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Nov 17 04:04:55 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:04:55 +0100
Subject: inserting bracketings into a string
References: <mailman.6460.1100648300.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cnf1d3$156$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cnf45i$jp8$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Peter Otten wrote:

> Not tested beyond what you see:

Probably wrong when a spans starts where another ends.
I'll check later :-(

Peter






From djcb at use.net  Tue Nov 16 11:46:47 2004
From: djcb at use.net (Dirk-Jan C. Binnema)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 16:46:47 GMT
Subject: HTMLParser problem
References: <1100610863.75889@eng-ser4> <cnd1a5$srn$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>
	<1100614470.532201@eng-ser4>
Message-ID: <slrncpkbno.gjq.djcb@mindcrime.local>

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:14:33 +0800, Valkyrie <valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk> wrote:
> Thank you. That means there is no way to deal with it using simple python
> built-in functions?

Well, you can always preprocess your HTML by replacing dubious
constructs. It's ugly but it works. You might even do something smart
and replace thing back after processing.

Good luck,
Dirk.

-------------------------------------
    Dirk-Jan C. Binnema (djcb)
mail: djcb [at] djcbsoftware [dot] nl
blog: www.djcbsoftware.nl/ChangeLog
im  : djcb at jabber.org
-------------------------------------


From edcjones at erols.com  Tue Nov 16 14:26:57 2004
From: edcjones at erols.com (Edward C. Jones)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 14:26:57 -0500
Subject: Man machine interface and language design
Message-ID: <F76dnePaN4wfyQfcRVn-iA@rcn.net>

Today's SlashDot mentioned a very interesting article about man-machine 
interface and language design:

Natural programming languages and environments
by Brad A. Myers, John F. Pane, Andy Ko
Communications of the ACM September 2004/Vol. 47, No. 9

http://www.acmqueue.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=225



From ndbecker2 at verizon.net  Fri Nov 19 12:40:38 2004
From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal D. Becker)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:40:38 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
Message-ID: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220040230959%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20040230959&RS=DN/20040230959



From jblaine at mitre.org  Wed Nov 17 11:18:19 2004
From: jblaine at mitre.org (Jeff Blaine)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:18:19 -0500
Subject: ruby on rails ... python on ?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5772.1099330973.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>
	<mailman.5772.1099330973.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cnftkp$doc$1@newslocal.mitre.org>

> I've looked a little at Rails.  It's not super special.  Well, it *is* 
> compared to things like Java; dynamic languages *are* quite superior for 
> rapid development of websites, and Ruby and Python are similar languages 
> in that way.
> 
> Rails is really a whole stack that works well together.  People have 
> been writing this sort of thing in Python for a long time; which isn't 
> to say they always have gotten it right, or that those efforts have had 
> the right perspective to be strategic successes (i.e., become popular).

I'd have to politely disagree that it's not super special.  It
exists, in usable form, today, and works incredibly well and
incredibly cleanly.  That's pretty super special, IMO :)

Talk is cheap!

> All three of these pieces fit together really well in Rails, which is 
> perhaps what it offers that Python doesn't have.  Well, I'm sure some 
> framework out there has this, but it's hard to say, there's so damn many.

I'm not at all sure.

> But, while this is really compelling when you show off the creation of a 
> simple system, I suspect it becomes a fair amount more complicated later 
> on.  At least, that is my experience with Python projects of similar 
> ambition.  It's neat to setup a database and have it work instantly, 
> complete with the standard CRUD forms.  But this only works for "leaf" 
> tables, and even then no so well.  How do you deal with joins?  How do 
> you deal with complex requirements on input, or actions on updates? 
> Eventually you'll need to tweak a generated form just a *little*, does 
> that mean you have to throw away all the automated aspects and code it 
> by hand?

I recommend watching the "2 hour" video at http://www.rubyonrails.org
(watch the last half)

> I don't mean to criticize Rails with these questions; it's not that 
> Python frameworks solve these wonderfully either, these are just hard 
> problems.  But for realistic web applications these are inevitable 
> issues, and I suspect Rails isn't quite as compelling when you take them 
> into account.
> 
> OTOH, I'd love to see something in Python that is just as tight as 
> Rails

Hell yes :)

Thanks for the objective and thoughtful post!

jblaine,
6yr-Python-fanatic-feeling-the-ruby-pull


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Fri Nov 26 18:08:21 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 21:08:21 -0200
Subject: Delphi underrated, IDE clues for Python
In-Reply-To: <opsh3oj9ap1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.23.07.09.08.229463@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<zn18e7pm.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.24.07.36.24.700146@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<mailman.6746.1101289610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<vtadq05nljtb7hatf77t3lfvttkajlt2s6@4ax.com>
	<opsh3oj9ap1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
Message-ID: <864d3709041126150854944bbe@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:46:47 -0500, Caleb Hattingh <caleb1 at telkomsa.net> wrote:
> I have been using Delphi 6 at work for several years now (python where I
> can squeeze it in!).
> 
> As a programming environment, Delphi is *awesome*.  Sure, it's statically
> typed.  Sure, it's proprietry. Sure, it is Windows-based.
> 
> BUT as an IDE, the Delphi environment is amazing.  What I want in a Python
> IDE is the Delphi ide, but with python as the language.  The
> *code-insight*, code/class completion, integrated debugging, integrated
> help, and *incredibly* fast GUI design is a killer combination.  We
> actually use Delphi mostly for numerical stuff (chemical reactor
> modelling), and find its runtime speed is pretty good.  The other amazing
> thing is that Delphi exhibits the fastest compilation I have seen in a
> native optimising compiler.  Working with it is almost like working in an
> interpreter.
> 
> So why is my wish to use Python if I think Delphi is so great?
> 
> Because Python is dynamic and compact while still easy to read (although
> decorators have curbed my enthusiasm a little).  Python is just a better
> language.  ObjectPascal syntax is very verbose (compared to Python).  The
> Delphi IDE minimizes this issue to great extent with several
> code-completion mechanisms, but I tried to use FPC several days ago
> (without Lazarus), and couldn't type up a simple unit without referring
> the docs - After having used Delphi for 5 years!  I was 80% productive in
> Python after reading the tutorial *once* (but probably not with the most
> optimal code).

That's an interesting remark. I felt the same while trying to write
code using FPC. It's actually a tribute to Delphi's IDE design that
they manage to hide that much complexity. On the other hand, it's a
tribute to Python because it manages to be *so* simple as not to need
an IDE for most tasks.
 
> STILL...Having a Delphi-like IDE for Python would make me giddy.    I know
> there are several ever-improving options out there already...I guess I am
> waiting to see which one floats to the surface.  I also tend to want to
> use Tk because it is the 'standard' while the more exciting work seems to
> be with the other toolkits, wx, GTK, etc.   I am keen to see what becomes
> of Tk3000 though.

If you like Delphi, and want a GUI constructor, Boa Constructor is an
interesting project for you to check. I used it a little bit, but in
the end, I felt it was too heavy for my computer at the time (it was
really old & slow). Since then I have upgraded my configuration, but
haven't tried it again.

Boa is still not at the 1.0 stage (meaning that it's really deemed not
to be stable enough), but it's already quite usable. In my own
personal opinion, the interface is not as well organized as Delphi's,
and I feel it could be improved. However, it's pretty easy to say that
and *not* contribute any patch to solve the situation :-) so take my
opinion with a large grain of salt. (And of course, I still think that
Riaan is a great guy, and that all the work done by him on Boa is
amazing).

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov 22 08:53:02 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:53:02 -0500
Subject: split large file by string/regex
In-Reply-To: <v5l872-sd4.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>
References: <v5l872-sd4.ln1@pc.dieringer.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <41A1EF3E.1080409@holdenweb.com>

Martin Dieringer wrote:

> I am trying to split a file by a fixed string.
> The file is too large to just read it into a string and split this.
> I could probably use a lexer but there maybe anything more simple?
> thanks
> m.

Depends on your definition of "simple", I suppose. The problem with 
*not* using a lexer is that you'd have to examine the file in a sequence 
of overlapping chunks to make sure that a regex could pick up all 
matches. For me that would be more complex than using a lexer, given the 
excellent range of modules such as SPARK and PLY, to mention but two.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Mon Nov  8 21:39:00 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 21:39:00 -0500
Subject: Stupid Americans! -- Stupid... Stupid... STUPID!!! ___________
 tyjqip
In-Reply-To: <418ED1A7.90506@verizon.net>
References: <MPG.ed7c87d7033b@NEWS.GRADWELL.NET>
	<mailman.6081.1099848768.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418ED1A7.90506@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <41902DC4.1010307@cloudthunder.com>

David Lees wrote:

> Thank you posting this appropriate reply.  Hopefully it will cut off a 
> flamewar in python.org.  While I agree with the sentiments the author 
> crudely expressed, this is certainly the wrong forum.
>
> David Lees
>
No es problemo.  It certainly seems that the respectable individuals on 
this forum are making the wise choice of avoiding the message due to its 
divergence from discussion of Python, so no need to worry about 
flamewars in this respect.  I merely felt it necessary however to inform 
the author of the inappropriateness of his/her message (I assume this to 
be useful as he/she may not be aware of this, esp. if overwhelmed by 
angry emotion).  Then, perhaps other forums will not be wrongly subjected.


From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Tue Nov 16 09:21:48 2004
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 14:21:48 GMT
Subject: Redirecting system output quietly
References: <mailman.6287.1100207213.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gn8ja3.7d3sbhuk94khN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<6542462a.0411151555.5fe41de4@posting.google.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.56.0411151901320.27753@pollux.cse.buffalo.edu>
Message-ID: <xqxy8h1ho1v.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

Madhusudhanan Chandrasekaran <mc79 at cse.buffalo.edu> writes:

> Hi,
>   I am a newbie here. I want to know how to redirect os.system("ls -af")
> to a string variable without it barfing the answer of ls -af on the
> screen.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Madhusudhanan.C

1. If all you want is the list of files:
   myfiles=os.listdir('.')

2. If you want exactly the ls commands output, simplest is:
   import commands
   result=commands.getoutput("ls -af")

3. If you want more control, you may need forking and piping.
   Let me know if you need examples.

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
Phone: (425) 294-4718


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Nov 20 22:17:29 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 22:17:29 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Patents 'IsNot'
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>	<16798.16559.745209.751967@montanaro.dyndns.org>	<cnlgv2$vc$1@sea.gmane.org><mailman.6616.1100893198.5135.python-list@python.org><3073pnF2rf1v9U1@uni-berlin.de><10pt5sfdr8hh52e@corp.supernews.com>
	<309qrmF2im5d4U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cnp1bu$879$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Peter Maas" <peter at somewhere.com> wrote in message 
news:309qrmF2im5d4U1 at uni-berlin.de...
> Could this patent be circumvented by writing "not (a is b)" instead
> of "a is not b"? If that would be the case the patent claim would
> be even more ridiculous.

Somewhere deep in the verbiage they explicitly mention 'Not (A Is B)' as 
the currently necessary idiom (which competitors would presumably have to 
continue using) and tout 'A IsNot B' as nicer or something.  Replacing the 
former with the latter is the whole and entire point of this 
ridiculousness.  No new actual functionality.  Yes, mind-boggling.

Terry J. Reedy







From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Nov  2 15:05:02 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 20:05:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041102T205221-306@post.gmane.org>

Diez B. Roggisch <deetsNOSPAM <at> web.de> writes:
> 
> If you do this:
> 
> "a" + 10
> 
> you end with 10 - if the string doesn't contain something as number
> interpretable, the coercion results in null.
> 
> Sure, that behaviour can be seen as overloaded, too. But overloaded
> functions usually make some sort of sense, where this technique masks
> errors by _always_ trying to interpret values as useful to every operation.

Ahh, I understand now.  I would still call this coercion with an overloaded
operator.  A horrible language decision, certainly, but not a mark of weak
typing -- note that Python can give you exactly the same behavior if you want it:

>>> class phpint(int):
... 	def __add__(self, other):
... 		try:
... 			other = int(other)
... 		except ValueError:
... 			other = 0
... 		return super(phpint, self).__add__(other)
... 	__radd__ = __add__
... 	
>>> i = phpint(10)
>>> 5 + i
15
>>> "5" + i
15
>>> "a" + i
10

This doesn't mean that Python has suddenly become a weakly-typed language.  It
just means that I've implemented some poor coercion choices in the language. =)

> I'm no native speaker, so I maybe confused the meaning of permanent. In
> german, permanent not only means that things are enduring, but also that
> things are done on regular bases: "He permanently changed his cloth." 

Ahh.  Gotcha.  I would probably say "He (regularly changed/repeatedly
changed/used to change) his clothes."  Thanks for the clarification.

> What I wanted to say is that php uses coercions or overloaded operators for
> nearly everything. Sometimes this is totally silent, sometimes nothing
> happens and a warning is issued - which might be configured to be treated
> as an actual error, I'm not sure about that.

Totally clear now, thanks.  Basically you would say that the more implicit
coercions a language performs, the more weakly typed it is.  This diverges from
the common use of the terms strong and weak typing in the PL literature, which
is why I was confused.

> So while there migth be in fact type information present, it's rarely used -
> which I consider as beeing weak.

Well, the type information is probably used all the time (I would't be surprised
if somewhere in the PHP internals something like my __add__ method above was
defined), but it's used implicitly, so the programmer might never see it.

Steve




From exarkun at divmod.com  Thu Nov  4 12:27:42 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 17:27:42 GMT
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
In-Reply-To: <loom.20041104T175810-307@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20041104172742.23443.474029896.divmod.quotient.1435@ohm>

On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:02:24 +0000 (UTC), Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
>Diez B. Roggisch <deetsNOSPAM <at> web.de> writes:
> > 
> > I'd second that - writing apus in php can lead to great surprises of what
> > actually happens - take this for example:
> > 
> > $foo = "abc";
> > $foo[0] = 65;
> > 
> > The result is 
> > 
> > "6bc"
> 
> If I learned nothing else from this thread, I learned that I *never* want to
> screw around with PHP. ;)
> 
> > And don't forget: If you don't like the way someone overloaded some
> > operator, you can alter that behaviour according to your own design
> > philosophies.
> 
> Python has the nice property that you're not allowed to modify builtins, so no
> one can ever make your Python code do anything other than:
> 
> >>> foo = 'abc'
> >>> foo[0] = 65
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: object does not support item assignment
> 

  Not quite.  Anything is possible, with the right extension modules:

Python 2.3 (#3, Jan 26 2004, 21:50:33)
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import intrinsics, become
>>> class phpstr(str):
...     def __setitem__(self, index, value):
...             become.memwrite(id(self) + 20 + index, str(value)[0])
... 
>>> oldstr = intrinsics.replace(str, phpstr)
>>> foo = 'abc'
>>> foo[0] = 65
>>> foo
'6bc'
>>>

  doing-the-impossib-ly yrs,

  Jp


From rowen at cesmail.net  Mon Nov 22 14:13:17 2004
From: rowen at cesmail.net (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:13:17 -0800
Subject: is int(round(val)) safe?
Message-ID: <rowen-8AF206.11131622112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

I realize this probably a stupid question, but...is it safe to 
round to the nearest integer by using int(round(val))?

I suspect it is fine, but wanted to be sure that weird floating point 
representation on some platform might make it unsafe there (i.e. get the 
wrong value due to the floating point value being an approximation) and 
if so, is there a Better Way).

-- Russell


From bhoel at despammed.com  Thu Nov 25 17:02:09 2004
From: bhoel at despammed.com (=?iso-8859-15?q?Berthold_H=F6llmann?=)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 23:02:09 +0100
Subject: dictionary initialization
References: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <m2sm6xmvtq.fsf@pchoel.psh>

wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca (Weiguang Shi) writes:

> Hi,
>
> With awk, I can do something like
>     $ echo 'hello' |awk '{a[$1]++}END{for(i in a)print i, a[i]}'
>
> That is, a['hello'] was not there but allocated and initialized to
> zero upon reference.
>
> With Python, I got
>     >>> b={}
>     >>> b[1] = b[1] +1
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>     KeyError: 1
>
> That is, I have to initialize b[1] explicitly in the first place.
>
> Personally, I think
>
>     a[i]++
>
> in awk is much more elegant than
>
>     if i in a: a[i] += 1
>     else: a[i] = 1
>
> I wonder how the latter is justified in Python.

It isn't :-)

>>> a={}
>>> a[1] = a.get(1, 0) + 1
>>> a
{1: 1}
>>> a[1] = a.get(1, 0) + 1
>>> a
{1: 2}

Regards
Berthold
-- 
berthold at xn--hllmanns-n4a.de / <http://h?llmanns.de/>
bhoel at web.de                 / <http://starship.python.net/crew/bhoel/>


From grante at visi.com  Wed Nov 10 10:27:32 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 15:27:32 GMT
Subject: sockets: How to know when your data is sent
References: <f00811ba.0411090653.5f6d1d29@posting.google.com>
	<4190e27f$0$95596$a1866201@visi.com>
	<K4k*FXdzq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
	<4190fdab$0$87168$a1866201@visi.com>
	<mailman.6213.1100099153.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41923364$0$95594$a1866201@visi.com>

On 2004-11-10, Jaime Wyant <programmer.py at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 09 Nov 2004 17:26:03 GMT, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
> [ snip! ]
>> Unfortunately, many people who write network applications (and
>> protocols) make all sorts of bizarre assumptions, and somebody
>> ends up jumping through hoops later to try to fix things when
>> those assumptions turn out to be wrong. :/
>
> Woah!  This is all enlightening news to me.  Of course, what little
> bit of socket level stuff I've done, I've always had a
> "send/acknowledge" type protocol wrapped around.  I guess I've just
> been lucky so far :-).

While we're on the topic, another common problem occurs when
people assume that there is a 1:1 correspondance between
write() and read() operations when using TCP.  IOW, they assume
that if they write() (or send()) a block of data of size N,
that it will arrive at the other end as a block and be read as
a block of size N.  Under some conditions, this will often be
true.  I ran into one app that worked under this assumption for
years, but broken when a satellite link was placed in the path.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  With YOU, I can be
                                  at               MYSELF... We don't NEED
                               visi.com            Dan Rather...


From fake at not-real.bogus  Sat Nov 13 18:58:49 2004
From: fake at not-real.bogus (Matt Garman)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 23:58:49 GMT
Subject: Advice needed
References: <1100361297.413616.17890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrncpd7tv.1ge.fake@sewage.raw-sewage.fake>

On 13 Nov 2004 07:54:57 -0800, Alberto <aaflores at gmail.com> wrote:
> I was trying to understand the reasons why I should learn Python.
> More like a pros/cons about this language. Currently, I use C,
> C/C++, Java, Perl, Visual VB and was looking to see the usefulness
> of Python.  Any suggestions?

As others have suggested, the best thing you can really do is spend
several hours with Google and some sample Python code and see how
you like it.

The reason I started getting into it is the following: I do most of
my programming in C/C++.  For me, the problem with those languages
is that it takes relatively more code to do many tasks compared to
Python.  So if I'm working on something that I haven't thought all
the way through, I find myself back-tracking from time to time.
This can be *very* time-consuming in C/C++ (the trial-and-error
method of programming).  However, things can be developed so quickly
in Python, that if you have to back-track, little time is lost.

In a nutshell, I like and use Python for creating quick
proof-of-concepts and as a development concepting tool.  Although,
most very high level languages (such as Perl and VB) are good for
this too---so we're back to personal preference :)

But also, for me, I enjoy learning new languages just for the sake
of learning them.  I think it's fun, and as another said, new
languages usually teach you how to think about problems in a
different way.  I've benefitted from this language "cross
pollination" many times---using another language's techniques and
paradigms has helped me come up with elegant solutions on more than
one occasion.

At the end of the day, it's personal preference... but if you can
spare the time, and enjoy learning and playing with new languages,
why not learn Python?

Matt

-- 
Matt Garman
email at: http://raw-sewage.net/index.php?file=email


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Nov 11 17:23:54 2004
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 11 Nov 2004 14:23:54 -0800
Subject: ANN: config module v0.3.4 released
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0411111423.2836cce2@posting.google.com>

A new version of the Python config module has been released.

What Does It Do?
================
The config module allows you to implement a hierarchical configuration
scheme with support for mappings and sequences, cross-references
between one part of the configuration and another, the ability to
flexibly access real Python objects, facilities for configurations to
include and cross-reference one another, simple expression evaluation
and the ability to change, save, cascade and merge configurations. You
can easily integrate with command line options using optparse.

This module has been developed on python 2.3 but should work on
version 2.2 or greater. A test suite using unittest is included in the
distribution.

A very simple configuration file (simple.cfg):

# starts here
message: Hello, world!
#ends here

a very simple program to use it:

from config import Config

cfg = Config(file('simple.cfg'))
print cfg.message

results in:

Hello, world!

Configuration files are key-value pairs, but the values can be
containers that contain further values.

A simple example - with the example configuration file: 

messages:
[
  {
    stream : `sys.stderr`
    message: 'Welcome'
    name: 'Harry'
  }
  {
    stream : `sys.stdout`
    message: 'Welkom'
    name: 'Ruud'
  }
  {
    stream : $messages[0].stream
    message: 'Bienvenue'
    name: Yves
  }
]

a program to read the configuration would be:

from config import Config

f = file('simple.cfg')
cfg = Config(f)
for m in cfg.messages:
    s = '%s, %s' % (m.message, m.name)
    try:
        print >> m.stream, s
    except IOError, e:
        print e

which, when run, would yield the console output:

Welcome, Harry
Welkom, Ruud
Bienvenue, Yves

The above example just scratches the surface. There's more information
about this module available at

http://www.red-dove.com/python_config.html

Comprehensive API documentation is available at

http://www.red-dove.com/config/index.html

As always, your feedback is most welcome (especially bug reports,
patches and suggestions for improvement). Enjoy!

Cheers

Vinay Sajip
Red Dove Consultants Ltd.

Changes since the last release posted on comp.lang.python:
==========================================================
Added ConfigInputStream to provide better Unicode support.
Added ConfigReader.setStream().
Renamed config.get() to getByPath(), and likewise for ConfigList.
Added Mapping.get() to work like dict.get().
Added logconfig.py and logconfig.cfg to distribution.
Simplified parseMapping().
Allowed Config.__init__ to accept a string as well as a stream. If a
string is passed in, streamOpener is used to obtain the stream to be
used.
Changed addNamespace/removeNamespace to make name specification
easier.
Refactored save(), added Container.writeToStream and
Container.writeValue() to help with this.


From mrovner at propel.com  Tue Nov 16 13:39:30 2004
From: mrovner at propel.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:39:30 -0800
Subject: Pyrex on Windows
In-Reply-To: <99230dbb.0411141332.3594e925@posting.google.com>
References: <99230dbb.0411141332.3594e925@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cndhhj$gfk$1@sea.gmane.org>

SM wrote:
> Hi,
> I would like to play with Pyrex for Windows. I have no clue how to
> install it including a c compiler. Anyone using pyrex on windows who
> could give a quickstart?
> Stani

You better have some clues about C language first including installing a 
compiler and writing some sample programms.

If you skip that step you likely be stucked in debris of _compiled_ 
Pyrex programs you'll have absolutely no idea how to dial with.

Once you mastered that you can simply use distutils to _invoke_ C 
compiler in order to get you .pyd files.

Mike



From gvanrossum at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 12:04:33 2004
From: gvanrossum at gmail.com (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:04:33 -0800
Subject: [Python-Dev] RELEASED Python 2.4 (final)
In-Reply-To: <200411302331.43246.anthony@interlink.com.au>
References: <200411302331.43246.anthony@interlink.com.au>
Message-ID: <ca471dc204113009041ce40ac4@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:31:34 +1100, Anthony Baxter
<anthony at interlink.com.au> wrote:
> On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I'm
> happy to announce the release of Python 2.4.

Anthony, congratulations with this smooth release! Thanks for all the
hard work. Enjoy your beer, I'm celebrating with you in spirit.

Thanks also to all the other developers who contributed to this
release, and to the many thousands of users who helped with the the
beta testing.

Let's hope for record downloads,

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From bokr at oz.net  Fri Nov 19 09:10:32 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:10:32 GMT
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
	number of output arguments)
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6361.1100470915.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cn95k1$bfq$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6371.1100498345.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnb7hi.1hwbltbftm6c1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6392.1100556222.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbg4k.13z20mj1w1o0ysN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de> <419bbf2a.319309032@news.oz.net>
	<1gnf7n6.1spfeu41yhjcdaN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<419cc167.385418983@news.oz.net>
	<1gnhvee.q8h31aastcqN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <419de7d0.460787817@news.oz.net>

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:58:17 +0100, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

>Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
>
>> >? No they're not -- a caller knows them, in order to be able to call
>> >with named argument syntax.
>> >
>> I guess you mean keyword arguments, so yes, 
>
>I hate to call them 'keyword' arguments when they aren't (check with the
>keyword module: it will confirm they aren't keywords!-).
>
Of the language no, but the error message is suggestive:

 >>> def foo(a,b,c): print a,b,c
 ...
 >>> foo(z=123)
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 TypeError: foo() got an unexpected keyword argument 'z'

OTOH, I have been arguing from an untested assumption *<8^P. I didn't
realize that 'keyword' style named parameter passing could be used
with the ordinary named parameters!

 >>> foo(b=2, a=1, c=3)
 1 2 3

That definitely is more than mnemonic. So the formal ordered parameter names
are not just internal information, they are part of the interface (which
you can optionally ignore). Really sorry if I misled anyone on that ;-/

>> but for other args I would argue that the caller's
>> knowledge of formal parameter names really only serves mnemonic purposes.
>
>How does that differ from returning a tuple-with-names?
I guess you are referring to those names' also being for optional use, i.e.,
that you can unpack a tuple-with-names the old fashioned way if you want. Hm...
but that might lead to ambiguities if we are to have automatic name-driven unpacking.
I.e.,

    c,a,b = tuple_with_names

might be different from

    c,a,b = tuple(tuple_with_names)

and

    a,b = tuple_with_names

might be a legal extraction of a and b (whatever the order), but

    a,b = tuple(tuple_with_names)[1:]

would need the [1:] to avoid an unpacking error.
That makes me wonder if

    a,b,c,etc = someobj

it will need an UNPACK_SEQUENCE that looks for a name-lookup
capability in someobj before it looks for an iter capability
to do sequential unpacking. I think probing __getitem__ would
cause problems, since dict is already capable of both __iter__
and __getitem__, and the priority is already defined:

 >>> a,b = {'x':1, 'y':2}
 >>> a,b
 ('y', 'x')


And since the underlying tuple would have to support __iter__,
I'm not sure how to generate code for name-driven unpacking
without having a __getnamedvalue__ method separate from __getitem__,
and which would have priority over __iter__. And then what do
you do with all those left-hand-side namelists that you mostly
won't need unless the RHS evaluates to an object with a __getnamedvalue__
method? Maybe we need to have an explict operator for name-driven unpacking, e.g.,

    a,b <- someobj

Then plain old __getitem__ could be used on any object that currently supports it,
and the name list would only be compiled into the code for explicit a,b <- something.

Obviously this could take care of unpacking tuple-with-name objects too.

>
>> I.e., once the calling code is written, e.g. an obfuscated-symbols
>> version of the function may be substituted with no change in program
>> behavior. So in that sense, there is no coupling: the writer of the
>
>If the caller doesn't use argument names, you can change argument names
>without breaking the caller.
That makes sense now, but I've been a caller who never used argument names
for the ordered parameters ;-)
>
>If the caller doesn't use field names in a returned tuple-with-names,
>you can change the field names without breaking the caller.
>
>I don't see any difference.
Nor do I now, except for the above aspect of ambiguity in automated
serial vs name-driven unpacking.

>
>> calling code is not forced to use any of the function's internal names
>
>Same for a tuple-with-names being returned.
Ok, yes, you can ignore the names. But if you do use names, you live with the
name choices of the function coder (both ways, as I've learned).
>
>> in _his_ source code. This is in contrast with e.g. a returned dict or
>> name-enhanced tuple: he _is_ forced to use the given actual names in _his_
>> code, much like keyword arguments again.
>
>Dicts are another issue.  As for tuples-with-names, no way:
But this is ignoring the names. See above re name-driven unpacking ;-)
>
>    a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i = time.localtime()
>
>this works, of course, and the caller doesn't have to know which field
>is named tm_day and which one tm_hour or whatever else, unless the
>caller WANTS to use such names for mnemonic purposes.
Ok, but name-driven unpacking will have to have other-than-plain-assignment
syntax, it now seems to me.

>
>The situation is as strictly parallel to passing functions to ordinary
>Python functions as two issues can ever be in programming: foo(a, b, c)
>works but so does foo(bar=b, baz=a, fee=c) if that's the calling style
>the caller prefers for mnemonic/clarity/style reasons.
>
Can you believe I've gone years without integrating the fact that any
named python parameter can be passed in name=value form? I've only used
them with ** syntax. Sheesh. Habits can be unnecessarily constraining ;-/

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Nov 25 06:25:50 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 12:25:50 +0100
Subject: asynchat and threading
References: <Ij1pd.19554$ld2.4796764@twister.nyc.rr.com>	<mailman.6755.1101310280.5135.python-list@python.org>	<4edc17eb.0411241036.72eed3ef@posting.google.com>	<41a505c2$0$20660$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<mailman.6771.1101346778.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4edc17eb.0411242352.470e6114@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <co4ffu$8ma$03$1@news.t-online.com>

> twisted could be of help here, and which one you would suggest.
> I have a few users (say 100) who want to send small bunches of text
> (say 1K in size) to a remote server via TCP; the server should save
> these texts in a small database. The server should be able to catch the
> messages from the different users and "synchronize" them (not sure what
> the right word is): if two messages arrive at the same time they are
> written one after the other to the database. In this way the database has

If you use twisted with the select-based reactor (which is default) this
should be no problem at all. As there is only one process running, there
can't be a possible concurrent database access. Apart from that, you could
always explicitely guard your critical section of code with a
threading-lock - then you're free to use the thread-based reactor.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Tue Nov  2 16:02:55 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 21:02:55 GMT
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<4187aafe$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<slrncofp1m.dvf.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5839.1099426546.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncoftft.dvf.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>

>  (1) Weakly-typed languages allow you to take a block of memory that was
>  originally defined as one type and reinterpret the bits of this block as another
>  type[1]. (This is the definition usually used in Programming Languages
>  literature.)
>  
>  (2) Weakly-typed languages have more implicit coercions than strongly-typed
>  languages.  (This seems to be the favored definition on this newsgroup.)

Is either of them a subset of the other, generally speaking?


>  The answer to your question depends on which one of these definitions you're
>  interested in.  Definition (1) will have a much flatter hierarchy than
>  definition (2).  Which definition are you interested in?

both, if you don't mind ;-)

cheers,
gab.


-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| There are works which wait,                                             |
| and which one does not understand for a long time; [...]                |
| for the question often arrives a terribly long time after the answer.   |
|                                                         (Oscar Wilde)   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Sat Nov 27 08:20:17 2004
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile)
Date: 27 Nov 2004 05:20:17 -0800
Subject: executable from python cod
References: <77969915.0411241036.553c3da3@posting.google.com>
	<co2p3s$inq$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<77969915.0411261142.1bcca34c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5c882bb5.0411270520.7cc6e458@posting.google.com>

gergina at abv.bg (Nickolay), this is quite interesting. Can you tell us
some more about it?
How we can find/try it?
How much language can it compile (can it use lists?)
Is the compiler written in Python (this probably makes it simpler to
create)?

Bearophile


From mwm at mired.org  Mon Nov  8 18:19:44 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 17:19:44 -0600
Subject: Mixing Python And Bash
References: <mailman.6131.1099954889.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <x7fz3korn3.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Tom Purl <tom at tompurl.com> writes:

> I just wrote a Python script that is going to be called from bash script.
>  If the Python script fails, I want the bash script to also stop running. 
>  Unfortunately, I can't seem to get that to work.  Here's the script so
>  far:
>
> # custom python script
> /usr/bin/python /home/username/Dev/Python/packZODB.py \ 
>   -s"gsgmc.sigma.zettai.net" -b 7
>
> # next program
> /usr/bin/someOtherProgram
>
> I don't want the second program to run if the first program fails.  Isn't
> that the default in bash?  If someone could please point me in the right
> direction regarding this problem, I would really appreciate it.

No, that's not the default in bash.

Try:

# custom python script
/usr/bin/python /home/username/Dev/Python/packZODB.py \ 
   -s"gsgmc.sigma.zettai.net" -b 7

if [ $? -eq 0 ]
then
        # next program
        /usr/bin/someOtherProgram
fi

[Yes, I know there are shorter solutions. But his command line is long
enough as it is.]

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From jeffrey at fro.man  Sun Nov 21 00:35:22 2004
From: jeffrey at fro.man (Jeffrey Froman)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 21:35:22 -0800
Subject: CGI email script
References: <db4aff64.0411201402.66600328@posting.google.com>
	<419ffad3$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <10q0a8sk8clc276@corp.supernews.com>

Kent Johnson wrote:

> Strangely enough, the message actually has to include the from and to
> addresses as well.

The From: and To: headers do not need to be in the message for SMTP to work.
The mail would still be delivered normally without them, but the message
will arrive appearing at first glance to be from nobody, and to nobody. A
close look at the full Received: headers may reveal at least the intended
recipient.

   Jeffrey


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Wed Nov 17 16:06:44 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:06:44 -0800
Subject: Idiom for default values when unpacking a tuple
In-Reply-To: <afrmd.34589$Zr3.21484@fe1.texas.rr.com>
References: <l6qmd.34062$Zr3.23130@fe1.texas.rr.com>
	<mailman.6434.1100624680.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<afrmd.34589$Zr3.21484@fe1.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <419bd054$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Paul McGuire wrote:
> So is there any easy way for the pad function to figure out for itself that
> the target length is 3, without my having to tell it so?
Nope.
If there were, what would you propose the function "pad" below use as a
desired length in the statement:

     a,b,c = pad(something)[1:4]

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com  Tue Nov  9 05:48:40 2004
From: frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com (Frithiof Andreas Jensen)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:48:40 +0100
Subject: FBI SADISTS SEXUALLY ABUSED ME and RAPED ME for 3 YRS and
	BEHEADED ME
References: <bd43c4e0.0411010354.7bb0f94c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cmq73g$s0j$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>


"Keith" <keithn1234 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bd43c4e0.0411010354.7bb0f94c at posting.google.com...

> body like Ethan did to Nyah in Mission Impossible 2. If any of you are
> KNOWLEDGEABLE about how to find transponders implanted using any
> methods including X-Rays, please post some relevant information here
> and HELP ME. It would be greatly appreciated.

The easiest way is to get a friend to hit you with a sledgehammer all over
your body - that will make them little bug(gers) pop right out. If you
haven't got any friends, dissing the L.A. Police will hopefully induce them
to help stomp out those pesky implants, and you might make national TeeVee
too.




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 15 17:14:29 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:14:29 +0100
Subject: Set like feature
References: <1100552512.672456.317420@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1gnbes4.g8udka1u399knN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Hari  Pulapaka <hari04 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a list of space delimited strings ending in a newline.
> Eg: a = ['a sfds sdf s df 34 ew\n', 'df sdf s f s ssf\n']
> 
> Now inside each row, I have a space delimited list of fields.
> 
> Now I want to compare the fields in each row of the array and see which
> fields do not match.
> 
> Think of it as a 2 dimensional array of size mn, and comparing each
> each element on a column by column basis.
> 
> I am using python2.2 so no sets. Can anyone think of an efficient way
> to do this? 

Do you want to compare corresponding fields?  That's the only way I can
read that 'column by column basis', and thus I don't see what sets could
possibly have to do with it.

Do you want to compare each row with every other row?  I also note in
your example that the number of fields in each row appear to be
variable, so how do you want to deal with 'missing' fields?

Too many unanswered questions, I guess.  But for some specified set of
answers to those question, you might do...:

def compare_fields(i, j, base, other):
    for k, f1, f2 in zip(xrange(sys.maxint), base, other):
        if f1 != f2:
            print 'DIFF', i, j, k, repr(f1), repr(f2)

def lots_of_compares(list_of_strings):
    list_of_lists_of_fields = [row.split() for row in list_of_strings]
    num_rows = len(list_of_lists_of_fields)
    for i in xrange(num_rows):
        base_row = list_of_lists_of_fields[i]
        for j in xrange(i+1, num_rows):
            compare_fields(i, j, base_row, list_of_lists_of_fields[j])

You can do better with enumerate, itertools and other things which 2.2
didn't have, but sets wouldn't help.  Now, I hope this clarifies the
many unanswered questions which your 'specs' leave open, so you can work
out exactly what you want.

And, btw: upgrate to 2.4.  Sets or no sets, the performance enhancement
by itself will be vastly sufficient to repay whatever inconvenience you
think the upgrade might cause.


Alex


From evan at bad.dynu.ca  Wed Nov 10 16:26:23 2004
From: evan at bad.dynu.ca (Evan Prodromou)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:26:23 -0500
Subject: LRU cache (and other things missing from the standard library
	...)
Message-ID: <1100121983.30976.22.camel@bad.dynu.ca>

Gerhard,

I agree that LRU caches are a data structure too frequently
re-implemented in Python. I'd also like to see a "standard" cache
package, either as part of the standard library or elsewhere.
To that end, I've just uploaded an LRU cache package to the Python
Package Index:

http://www.python.org/pypi?:action=display&name=lrucache&version=0.2

Please, let me know if there are features you'd need from a cache class
that aren't present, implementation improvements that could be made, or
what have you. I'm working on a version 0.3 that includes a transparent
cache wrapper and LRU memoization for functions.

~ESP

-- 
Evan Prodromou                  .O.
http://bad.dynu.ca/~evan/       ..O
evan at bad.dynu.ca                OOO


From ncoghlan at email.com  Sat Nov 27 08:22:22 2004
From: ncoghlan at email.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 23:22:22 +1000
Subject: network programming without goto (refactoring)
In-Reply-To: <roy-FF4F1B.17591526112004@reader1.panix.com>
References: <mailman.6783.1101394437.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-2D5E23.12225225112004@reader1.panix.com>
	<10qfcmta665kbeb@corp.supernews.com>
	<roy-FF4F1B.17591526112004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <41a87f8e$0$25763$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Roy Smith wrote:
> In article <10qfcmta665kbeb at corp.supernews.com>,
>  Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>In Python, exceptions use 'raise', not 'throw'...
> 
> 
> Doh!  I guess it shows that I've been doing a lot of C++ lately :-)

Heh. I'm working on a Python test harness that uses a C++ hardware interface 
module. I keep writing raise on the C++ side and throw on the Python side.

However, that's nothing compared to the amount of swearing regarding the 
uselessness of C++ vectors as compared to Python lists. . .

Cheers,
Nick.


From davidf at sjsoft.com  Thu Nov 25 03:26:19 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 10:26:19 +0200
Subject: Integrating w/ distutils, hooks?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6740.1101254772.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6740.1101254772.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <co44vb$96f$2@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

I've also found the distutils architecture to be frustrating.
It seems to be designed to do one thing only and hard to plug in to.
Most of the time what I want to do is bundle other python modules 
together with my module in a single installer.
It is possible to write modules so they're more easily included in other 
  installers, I often refactor the other module's setup.py to make this 
possible. However it would be great to be able to add another 
"subinstall" that would do this automatically.
I've also found that the source distribution method is strange - I 
always remove MANIFEST and MANIFEST.in and rewrite them from inside 
setup.py as this gives better control.

Terry Hancock wrote:
> Some time ago, I got the idea that I wanted to build image 
> resources from vector graphic originals, instead of 
> marshalling hundreds of tiny little icon images by hand.
> I wrote "BuildImage" to do this for me, and so far, it
> works very well, so I'm trying to make it easier to use
> and available to more developers.
> 
> There is a brief (and somewhat dated) tutorial explaining 
> what BuildImage itself does at:
> 
> http://www.anansispaceworks.com/Documentation/BuildImage
> """
> In as few words as I can put it: "BuildImage is a build 
> system for image resources." That is to say, it attempts to 
> do for image resources what make does for programs.
> """
> 
> So now, I'm looking for the best way to integrate the
> BuildImage package with distutils to make it the least 
> painful for developers to use in their own distutils' 
> packages.
> 
> And I really feel this is something I should be talking to 
> distutils-sig about. This is a little long -- but the idea 
> is to spark some discussion about how I ought best to do 
> this:
> 
> 
> 
> I originally tried making my interface look more like
> distutils' interface -- providing a "setup" function, etc.
> I was thinking perhaps I might be able to drop in BuildImage
> scripts instead of distutils scripts in image resource
> sub-packages of some kind.
> 
> But the end-user is unlikely to have BuildImage
> installed, and I really want 'build' and 'install'
> targets of the containing distribution to go without
> a hitch with or without BuildImage (assuming the images are 
> already built, that is), while the developer targets 
> "sdist" and "bdist" should use BuildImage to create image 
> resources and include them in the distribution.  Also,
> I'm probably starting to duplicate distutils functionality,
> which is wasteful.
> 
> Perhaps, emulating distutils is somewhat misguided -- I 
> certainly don't want to replace distutils, I just want to 
> work with it in a way that will be intuitive for the 
> developer.  What I really want are hooks to attach to 
> within distutils.
> 
> *Ideally*, BuildImage would run at the time you would 
> normally run Bison/Flex code -- i.e. it actually is a 
> "pre-source" operation: you run it to complete your source 
> distribution, then you compile C/C++ code, THEN you install 
> Python modules, etc.  I don't really see that distutils has 
> this concept as yet, but it's probably a reasonable 
> compromise to run it at the same time as C/C++ builds. (?)
> 
> If that's the right path, then "sdist" should simply include 
> all the necessary files for BuildImage, and the installer 
> will simply need to have BuildImage installed in their 
> Python site-packages in order to build the package.
> 
> If not, then maybe 'sdist' should build the images, but
> certainly include all the BuildImage sources so they can
> be re-built. (?)
> 
> OTOH, "bdist" should go ahead and build the images, store 
> them in the correct location in the distribution tree, and 
> tell distutils that it should install them along with the 
> sources.  (Pretty sure of this)
> 
> Is it conventional for 'bdist' to *also* include the source
> files (i.e. in an open-source built distribution)?
> 
> I'm a little confused about HOW to tell distutils what and 
> where to install: it seems that I might want to use the 
> "data_files" option to setup, or perhaps I want to update 
> the MANIFEST or MANIFEST.in files (can I somehow get my 
> code called after processing MANIFEST.in to MANIFEST so I 
> can then add my additional instructions?).
> 
> Modifying "MANIFEST.in" seems a little ugly, since the idea
> is that MANIFEST.in is human-edited source, while "MANIFEST"
> is machine-generated.  But I don't know how I can get my
> code called to work on MANIFEST *after* it has been 
> generated, but *before* it is used to install files.
> 
> Currently, I visualize a typical setup.py module using 
> BuildImage as something like this:
> 
> """
> # setup.py using BuildImage
> 
> import distutils
> try:
>     # We don't want to fail if BuildImage is not available,
>     # because we are also run by the end user
>     import BuildImage
>     BuildImage.setup(  ... options for BuildImage ... )
> except:
>     print """
>           You don't have BuildImage installed, so only
>           distutils operations will be supported.
>           """
> 
> distutils.setup(  ... options for distutils ... )
> """
> 
> So, when the end-user runs the setup script, they will see
> a message warning them that BuildImage targets won't work,
> but distutils will be able to do its job.  OTOH, when the
> developer runs the script to build the images, that will
> work too, and BuildImage will do its thing.
> 
> Obviously, though, BuildImage.setup() has to be able to tell
> distutils the things it needs to know, such as what to do
> with the images after they are built (typically they will be
> in a resource directory under the source tree?  But in a
> distribution that insists on a filesystem standard, like
> Debian, they should be under /usr/share/images or perhaps
> /usr/share/pixmaps, etc).
> 
> Since BuildImage won't be run at 'build' or 'install' time,
> these things have to already be prepared for distutils'
> installer.
> 
> But BuildImage could be made aware of the requirements for
> 'bdist', 'bdist_rpm', 'bdist_deb', etc., and alter what
> it tells distutils accordingly.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for your time -- any recommendations would
> greatly be appreciated, including references to previous 
> discussion or online resources I should be reading.
> 


From and-google at doxdesk.com  Sat Nov 13 12:18:10 2004
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 13 Nov 2004 09:18:10 -0800
Subject: Python 2.4: Why only assignments to None are forbiden?
References: <4195190f@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
	<mailman.6320.1100296338.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0411130918.4ac6e33a@posting.google.com>

Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:

> Anyway, the much more conservative proposal that disallows global 
> variables that share a name with a builtins seems reasonable and largely 
> backward compatible.

This still sounds undesirable to me.

 - it requires new authors to know and avoid all the builtins, even
   those they have no intention of using;

 - afterwards, adding any new builtins becomes a potentially
   app-breaking proposition.

Protecting None, False and True seems fine to me; they're extremely
common and part of the syntax itself in most languages. But banning a
global variable called 'license', for example, or a class 'Warning',
would be going too far IMO.

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/


From jerry at jerrysievers.com  Sun Nov 21 18:22:08 2004
From: jerry at jerrysievers.com (Jerry Sievers)
Date: 21 Nov 2004 18:22:08 -0500
Subject: thread; interrupt_main() doesn't seem to work?
References: <m3pt27qde5.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
	<Bt7od.1765$QR.452@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <m3r7mm7ppb.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:

> Jerry Sievers wrote:
> 
> > Fellow Pythonists; According to the docs
> > 
> > +-----------------+
> > |interrupt_main(|)|
> > +-----------------+
> > 
> >           Raise a KeyboardInterrupt in the main thread. A subthread can use
> >      this function to interrupt the main thread. New in version 2.3.
> > 
> > Therefore, I was expecting this short test prog to run and then finish
> > with the KeyboardInterrupt exception at the bottom in the pause
> > routine.  It doesn't stop there but I can do a manual keyboard
> > interrupt and get the expected bactrace and program exit.
> > 
> > ---
> > 
> > from signal import pause
> > from socket import socket
> > from thread import start_new_thread, interrupt_main
> > from time import sleep
> > 
> > def go():
> >     print 'go'
> >     while f.readline():
> >         print 'line'
> >     print 'empty'
> >     interrupt_main()
> >     print 'done'
> > 
> > s = socket()
> > s.connect(('localhost', 80))
> > f = s.makefile()
> > print 'connected'
> > 
> > start_new_thread(go, ())
> > 
> > sleep(2)
> > s.shutdown(2)
> > pause()  # expecting to get KeyboardInterrupt exception here
> > 
> > ---
> > 
> > connected
> > go
> > empty
> > done
> > ....hangs here as if interrupt_main() does nothing.
> > 
> > Manual Control-C required to wake up from pause() and exit.
> > 
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "test.py", line 23, in ?
> >     pause()  # expecting to get KeyboardInterrupt exception here
> > KeyboardInterrupt
> > 
> > Python 2.3.3 on RedHat 7x.
> > 
> > Wondering what's wrong?
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > 
> Perhaps the main thread has to actually be running to respond to the 
> raised exception. Did you try a shortish sleep() instead of the pause? 
> That would at least test this theory.

Sure did.  Tested with  the main prog blocked on raw_input() and also
sleeping(someNum)...

But you did hit on the problem when you said 'running'.

I kept testing and found it to work  in the following test case;

While True:
	sleep(1)
	# the exception gets noticed here
	doSomething()

This is a little curious since a real KeyboardInterrupt does get
noticed and processed immediatly whereas the one thrown from the
interrupt_main() routine doesn't get noticed until "between"
instructions.

In other words, I can interrupt a pause() at any time by hitting
Control-C but not by calling interrupt_main().

Thank you


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Sievers   305 854-3001 (home)     WWW ECommerce Consultant
                305 321-1144 (mobile	http://www.JerrySievers.com/


From chris.peressotti at utoronto.ca  Tue Nov 30 11:57:59 2004
From: chris.peressotti at utoronto.ca (Chris P.)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 08:57:59 -0800
Subject: Rounding the elements of a Python array (numarray module)
Message-ID: <3f233389.0411300857.7f522cd3@posting.google.com>

Hi.  I have a very simple task to perform and I'm having a hard time
doing it.

Given an array called 'x' (created using the numarray library), is
there a single command that rounds each of its elements to the nearest
integer?  I've already tried something like
>>> x_rounded = x.astype(numarray.Int)
but that only truncates each element (i.e. '5.9' becomes '5').

I've read over all the relevant numarray documentation, and it
mentions a bunch of Ufuncs that are available - there's 'floor' and
'ceil', but no 'round'.  And when I try using the built-in function
'round' on an array like so
>>> x_rounded = round(x)
I get "TypeError: Only rank-0 numarray can be cast to floats."

So I created a bad function that uses nested loops, but my arrays are
600x600x3 elements (I'm doing some image processing after converting a
PIL Image to a numarray array) and it takes a REALLY long time.  Has
anyone else had to do this, or knows of any tricks?  Any help is
appreciated.

- Chris

P.S. Here's my "bad function"

# This code assumes that 'the_array' is a 3-dimensional array.
def ArrayRound(the_array):
    result = numarray.zeros(the_array.shape)
    if len(the_array.shape) == 3:
        (depths,rows,columns) = the_array.shape
        for depth in range(depths):
            for row in range(rows):
                for column in range(columns):
                    result[depth][row][column] = #continued
                        round(the_array[depth][row][column])
    return result


From danperl at rogers.com  Tue Nov 23 11:41:28 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 11:41:28 -0500
Subject: Is there a consensus on how to check a polymorphic instance?
References: <1101180636.399043.199740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<Y3zod.73284$V41.418@attbi_s52>
	<1101192010.421806.51240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<lkCod.88653$5K2.13406@attbi_s03>
Message-ID: <Nq6dneGDxsmm9T7cRVn-rw@rogers.com>


"Steven Bethard" <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:lkCod.88653$5K2.13406 at attbi_s03...
> Mike Meng wrote:
>> Here is my problem. My project needs to parse some user input
>> string according to  specific rules. The rules can be defined with a
>> string, a CSV file, an XML file, and other forms. Followed the standard
>> OO style,  I designed a dictionary-like base class to abstract those
>> different sources and provides other parts a uniform interface to query
>> those rules.  I put some hard code into the base class and expect user
>> to inherit from it.
>
> The big question, I guess, is what do you want to happen if a user did not 
> inherit from your base class, but still provides all the appropriate 
> functionality?  In a dynamically-typed language like Python the answer is 
> usually that the user's class should still be considered valid, though of 
> course there are exceptions to this rule.

I have a question here, as we are discussing now protocol interfaces vs. 
inheritance.  Is using a class that implements a protocol without inheriting 
from a base class still "polymorphism"?  There are probably many definitions 
for polymorphism and probably all those definitions can be interpreted in 
such a way that they accept also protocols.  But what I would like to hear 
is what is the general opinion of people who use python.  I am biased 
because I come from a C++ and Java background and I am still used to a 
certain practical meaning for "polymorphism".  But it's beginning to dawn on 
me that it is only a bias and polymorphism does apply also to python 
protocol interfaces.  Is that generally accepted?

Dan 




From behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de  Fri Nov  5 03:51:28 2004
From: behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 09:51:28 +0100
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <10oaojs29dqctc7@news.supernews.com>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de> <clvpa0$7ag$2@star.cs.vu.nl>
	<clvrk0$djr$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<4183f2b0$0$209$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<2uiaqmF2as1ihU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<4184c277$0$265$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<1gmirtb.dymeyujh00iuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4184fa72$0$226$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<10oaojs29dqctc7@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <cmfeug$irt$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>

John Roth schrieb:
> Shrug. I cannot get excited about a proprietary Microsoft platform.
> If anyone wants to port IronPython to Mono, I suspect the path is
> clear (although maybe not - I don't know the license for that.)

IronPython 0.6 happily runs on Mono without recompiling. I only tried it 
under Linux, but their web site states that it also runs under 
Mono/Windows (and maybe other ports of Mono).

The problem is that it is currently more or less unusable because of the 
missing stdlib, assert statements and many other things.

Stefan


From pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com  Mon Nov 29 17:51:07 2004
From: pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com (Pekka Niiranen)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 00:51:07 +0200
Subject: Question of Optionparse
Message-ID: <41aba86d$0$2074$39db0f71@news.song.fi>

Hi,

How can I STOP Optionparse to process boolean
value as parameter. See this:

 >>> parser = optparse.OptionParser()
 >>> parser.add_option("-x",dest='xxx', action="store_true",help="xxx")
 >>> parser.add_option("-r",dest='root',help="directory",type="string")
 >>> args = ["-r", "d:", "-x"]
 >>> parser.parse_args(args)
(<Values at 0x13bbbc0: {'xxx': True, 'root': 'd:'}>, [])

Last line is correct: boolean 'xxx' gets set 'True'
and parameter 'root' to 'd:'

However when value is NOT given for '-r' but '-x' exists:

 >>> args = ["-r", "-x"]
 >>> parser.parse_args(args)
(<Values at 0x13ccf80: {'xxx': None, 'root': '-x'}>, [])

This is BS: I expected 'root' to be None and 'xxx' to be 'True'.
How can I make it so?

Another question: Is there a way to store options
directly into user defined dictionary without assignment
like this:

my_environment_values = {}
(options, args) = parser.parse_args()
environment_values["xxx"] = options.xxx

-pekka-


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 17 17:56:31 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 23:56:31 +0100
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining
	the	number of output arguments)
References: <MPG.1c01a21c51c7d262989686@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6361.1100470915.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cn95k1$bfq$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.6371.1100498345.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnb7hi.1hwbltbftm6c1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6392.1100556222.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbg4k.13z20mj1w1o0ysN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.6511.1100727971.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gnf6b7.nnqkns1c991f3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:

> But perhaps we could have something like "named tuples"; immutable
> objects, like tuples, with the property that a unique name can be
> associated to every item.

Of course we should -- I've lost count of how many recipes in the
cookbook I've merged that were implementing that idea in umpteen ways,
not counting several other ideas that only flew by in this NG.  Since
standard modules time, os (for stat), resource (dunno if any others),
started returning this kind of supertuples, their convenience has been
obvious to all.  I do believe they SHOULD _be_ tuples (that matters when
they're the only RHS argument of a % formatting operator) and it should
also be easy to get from them a name->value mapping (for % formatting
with named-items format style, and the like).  Definitely PEP time...
who's gonna carry the torch?


Alex


From sw at wordtech-software.com  Wed Nov 10 14:07:29 2004
From: sw at wordtech-software.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:07:29 -0500
Subject: ANN: PyQt-Mac installer available
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6223.1100110815.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <5Vlkd.1069$yk5.385@fe37.usenetserver.com>
	<mailman.6223.1100110815.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <419266F1.8080704@wordtech-software.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Timothy Grant wrote:
|


| This is a huge blessing! Thank you so much.

| That said I'm having a bit of difficulty.

| I believe I followed the instructions correctly including all the
| symlinks that were suggested. However, I get an error.


| (timothygrant at bastard%) pythonw
|                            ~
| Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11)
| [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
| Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

|>import qt

| Traceback (most recent call last):
|   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
| ImportError: Failure linking new module: libqt-mt.3.dylib: dyld:
|
/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/Resources/Python.app/Contents/MacOS/Python
| can't open library: libqt-mt.3.dylib  (No such file or directory,
| errno = 2)



| Any tips?

| Thank you.


I took a look and realized that this build doesn't use
libqt-mt.3.dylib--it is a static build. Try substituting libqt-mt.a and
libqt-mt.la in the symlinks. If this, or something like it, works, I'll
~ update the installation instructions.


- --
Kevin Walzer, PhD
WordTech Software--Open Source Applications and Packages for OS X
http://www.wordtech-software.com
http://www.smallbizmac.com
http://www.kevin-walzer.com
mailto:sw at wordtech-software.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFBkmbwJmdQs+6YVcoRApkoAJ9JMqVxMxxCmUfBISX/1/fC25mO0wCfSKMP
dvHx1gF0HbU/T27COged79E=
=hpO+
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From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Mon Nov 15 16:17:27 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:17:27 -0300
Subject: Set like feature
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7BE1@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Hari Pulapaka]

#- I have a list of space delimited strings ending in a newline.
#- Eg: a = ['a sfds sdf s df 34 ew\n', 'df sdf s f s ssf\n']
#- 
#- Now inside each row, I have a space delimited list of fields.
#- 
#- Now I want to compare the fields in each row of the array 
#- and see which
#- fields do not match.

Could you supply some example? Or the results for that two rows?


#- I am using python2.2 so no sets. Can anyone think of an efficient way
#- to do this? 

Do you have a non-efficient way to do this?

.	Facundo
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From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Nov 17 04:15:34 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:15:34 +0100
Subject: linking the python library
In-Reply-To: <ZsEmd.52922$Q7.16276@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <ZsEmd.52922$Q7.16276@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20041117091534.GA15069@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Wed, Nov 17, 2004 at 09:02:49AM +0000, Philip Smith wrote:
> I have tried compiling extension modules for python using pyrex and
> swig and both mingw and sygwin gcc under windows32
> 
> Unfortunately whatever I try the compilers fail to link python23.lib
> as specified under gcc -L option - I just get a string of "undefined
> references" to Python builtins.

You cannot link against python23.lib with gcc. Instead you must create
a libpython23.a and copy it to the place where python23.lib was.

See
http://docs.python.org/inst/tweak-flags.html#SECTION000622000000000000000

-- Gerhard
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From jgentil at sebistar.net  Tue Nov 30 10:10:21 2004
From: jgentil at sebistar.net (Jon-Pierre Gentil)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 07:10:21 -0800
Subject: Delphi underrated, IDE clues for Python
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.23.07.09.08.229463@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<zn18e7pm.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.24.07.36.24.700146@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<mailman.6746.1101289610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<vtadq05nljtb7hatf77t3lfvttkajlt2s6@4ax.com>
	<opsh3oj9ap1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
Message-ID: <b01944c9.0411300710.4198fa90@posting.google.com>

"Caleb Hattingh" <caleb1 at telkomsa.net> wrote in message news:<opsh3oj9ap1js0xs at news.telkomsa.net>...

> STILL...Having a Delphi-like IDE for Python would make me giddy.    I know  
> there are several ever-improving options out there already...I guess I am  
> waiting to see which one floats to the surface.  I also tend to want to  
> use Tk because it is the 'standard' while the more exciting work seems to  
> be with the other toolkits, wx, GTK, etc.   I am keen to see what becomes  
> of Tk3000 though.

The closest things I have found are eric3
(http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html) and Activestate
Komodo (http://www.activestate.com/Komodo/)

I hope this helps you.


From gdamjan at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 08:31:06 2004
From: gdamjan at gmail.com (Damjan)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:31:06 +0100
Subject: MySQLdb problem with mod_python, please help
References: <7b22037d.0411262345.dcff5bb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <313b0qF36dhk7U1@uni-berlin.de>

> MySQLdb is working fine at command line, however when I tried to use
> it with mod_python, it give me a "server not initialized" error.

Maybe its this problem?
http://www.modpython.org/FAQ/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq02.013.htp

-- 
damjan


From lbates at syscononline.com  Tue Nov  9 12:30:07 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 11:30:07 -0600
Subject: Concise idiom to initialize dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6164.1100018559.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6164.1100018559.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7P-dnS4Jpes5Yw3cRVn-rg@comcast.com>

It is almost certain that you should use either a list of dictionaries
or a dictionary containing other dictionaries for this.  Creation of
26 distinct dictionaries is almost never a good solution as it makes
it nearly impossible to iterate over them and would make code to
manipulate them unable to be generalized easily.

Example:

#
# To create a list of dictionaries
#
list_of_dicts=[]
for i in range(26):
     list_of_dicts.append({})

#
# Now you can reference each dictionary as:
#
# list_of_dicts[0], list_of_dicts[1], ...
#

or

import string
dict_of_dicts={}
for letter in string.ascii_lowercase:
     dict_of_dicts[letter]={}

#
# Now you can reference each dictionary as:
#
# dict_of_dicts['a'], dict_of_dicts['b'], ...

Larry Bates


Frohnhofer, James wrote:
> My initial problem was to initialize a bunch of dictionaries at the start of a
> function.
> 
> I did not want to do
> def fn():
> 	a = {}
> 	b = {}
> 	c = {}
> 	. . .
> 	z = {}
> simply because it was ugly and wasted screen space.
> 
> First I tried:
> 
> 	for x in (a,b,c,d,e,f,g): x = {}
> 
> which didn't work (but frankly I didn't really expect it to.)
> Then I tried:
> 
> 	for x in ('a','b','c','d','e','f','g'): locals()[x]={}
> 
> which did what I wanted, in the interpreter.  When I put it inside a function,
> it doesn't seem to work.  If I print locals() from inside the function, I can
> see them, and they appear to be fine, but the first time I try to access one
> of them I get a "NameError: global name 'a' is not defined"
> 
> Now obviously I could easily avoid this problem by just initializing each
> dictionary, but is there something wrong about my understanding of locals,
> that my function isn't behaving the way I expect?
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: python-list-bounces+james.frohnhofer=csfb.com at python.org
>>[mailto:python-list-bounces+james.frohnhofer=csfb.com at python.org]On
>>Behalf Of Dennis Lee Bieber
>>Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 10:31 AM
>>To: python-list at python.org
>>Subject: Re: Determining combination of bits
>>
>>
>>On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 21:18:36 -0800, "news.west.cox.net"
>><sean.berry2 at cox.net> declaimed the following in comp.lang.python:
>>
>>
>>>>Note: 2^1 = 2, so your dictionary is already in error...
>>>>
>>>
>>>The dictionary was filled with arbitrary values, not
>>>{ x : 2^x } values like you might have thought.
>>
>>	Well, you had stated "powers of two"... If all you wanted is a
>>bit mapping you could probably drop the dictionary and just use a list
>>of the values, indexed by the bit position, and my first attempt
>>logic...
>>
>>
>>>It is actually more like {1:123, 2:664, 4:323, 8:990, 16:221... etc}
>>>
>>>
>>
>>CheckBoxes = [ "FirstChoice",
>>               "SecondChoice",
>>               "ThirdChoice",
>>               "FourthChoice",
>>               "FifthChoice",
>>               "SixthChoice" ]
>>
>>
>>for num in [22, 25, 9]:
>>    bit = 0
>>    while num:
>>        if num & 1:
>>            print CheckBoxes[bit],
>>        bit = bit + 1
>>        num = num >> 1
>>    print
>>
>>SecondChoice ThirdChoice FifthChoice
>>FirstChoice FourthChoice FifthChoice
>>FirstChoice FourthChoice
>>
>>where "num" is the sum of the checkbox index values (or whatever
>>selection mechanism is used), assuming /they/ were set up in 2^(n+1)
>>scheme (n = bit position, starting with 0)...
>>
>>-- 
>> > ============================================================== <
>> >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
>> >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
>> > ============================================================== <
>> >           Home Page: <http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/>            <
>> >        Overflow Page: <http://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/>        <
>>-- 
>>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
> 
> 
> ==============================================================================
> This message is for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you received
> this message in error please delete it and notify us. If this message was
> misdirected, CSFB does not waive any confidentiality or privilege. CSFB
> retains and monitors electronic communications sent through its network.
> Instructions transmitted over this system are not binding on CSFB until they
> are confirmed by us. Message transmission is not guaranteed to be secure.
> ==============================================================================
> 


From exarkun at divmod.com  Sun Nov  7 11:04:36 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 16:04:36 GMT
Subject: determine IP
In-Reply-To: <1099842762.14624.0.camel@debian>
Message-ID: <20041107160436.14104.654768190.divmod.quotient.1232@ohm>

On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 15:52:42 +0000, Keir Lawson <keir at thelawsons.plus.com> wrote:
>is there a cross platform way to determine a local machines IP on a
> network (LAN or internet) in python?
> 

    s = socket.socket()
    s.connect(('google.com', 80))
    print s.getsockname()

  Jp



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Nov  3 10:17:35 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 10:17:35 -0500
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
In-Reply-To: <TfOdna4IePwZexXcRVn-pA@powergate.ca>
References: <cthoeigtdun.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
	<slrncohmqk.n07.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<TfOdna4IePwZexXcRVn-pA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <TbadndhdMqHzaRXcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>

Peter Hansen wrote:
>  >>> py.PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc(id(t), byref(exc))
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: expected CData instance

First error in the above: the thread id is not id(thread)
but the value returned by thread.start_new_thread or the
value returned by threading._get_ident().

Also ctypes provides a py_object class which I have no
idea how to use but could guess at wildly.

Also, ctypes provides a "pythonapi" thingy which should
be used in preference to cdll.python23, so the code
becomes more like this:

 >>> asyncexc = ctypes.pythonapi.PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc
 >>> exc = ctypes.py_object(ValueError)
 >>> asyncexc(t.id, exc)
1
 >>> t
<T(Thread-2, started)>

Hmm... clearly that's not enough, but perhaps closer.

(I find it hard to believe nobody has tried this yet, unless
it's the case that those who know how to do it also know that
it's actually not possible for some reason...)

-Peter


From wh2005 at web.de  Wed Nov 24 16:08:39 2004
From: wh2005 at web.de (wolfgang haefelinger)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 21:08:39 GMT
Subject: read(1) returns string of length 2
References: <xM_od.25928$jf.25666@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<mailman.6749.1101298838.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<KM0pd.8790$_u6.8539@amsnews02.chello.com>
	<co29n9$m4p$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <rL6pd.21505$lN.19949@amsnews05.chello.com>

Hi,

works fine for me with 2.4c1! Don't even need to  install
Japanese codecs now as it's already done. Shame that this
not mentioned.

I believe it's a bug but perhaps in the installed
Japanese Codecs.

Thanks to all provided feedback,
Wolfgang.


"George Yoshida" <ml at dynkin.com> wrote in message 
news:co29n9$m4p$1 at dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp...
> wolfgang haefelinger wrote:
>
>> Actually,  everything is fine until the codecs reader is about
>> to read '3b'. Instead of delivering this as next unicode char,
>> I'm getting '3b' and '0d' as string of length 2.
>
> I tried this out with Python 2.3 and 2.4 and noticed that they
> handle input streams differently.
> With 2.4 I get the same result as Java:
>
>   0x5408 0x8a08 0x6642 0x9593 0x3b 0xd 0xa
>
> (There's no {} marks.)
>
> This makes me wonder where the difference comes from?
> Is this a bug in 2.3 or a new feature in 2.4?
>
> -- george 




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Nov  3 22:01:57 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:01:57 -0800
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
In-Reply-To: <10oj1r6qkn7sf75@corp.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.5886.1099528488.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10oj1r6qkn7sf75@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20041103185349.F7FB.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
> 
> Josiah Carlson wrote:
> 
> >The only ugly part about idle handling is that idle handlers are called
> >quite often (at least in the wxPython versions I've run).  Specifically,
> >whenever I move my mouse over a wxPython app window, idle events are
> >streamed to the idle event handler at 30-60 events/second.
> >
> >Not really a big deal, but something people should know about none the
> >less.
> >  
> >
> 
> True enough.  I believe that in most cases, checking a queue for content 
> and acting if there's something there should be a fairly negligible 
> load, and that typically it's a load that happens only when nothing else 
> would be happening anyhow.  But it *is* something to be aware of, and 
> one should be at least somewhat cautious about what's done during idle 
> processing.  OTOH, it's a bit simpler to implement than creating a 
> custom event and installing a handler for that... Not *much* simpler, as 
> creating a custom event isn't exactly difficult, but in simple 
> circumstances it has its benefits...  :)

Who said anything about a custom event?  Timers are useful and so very
easy to use.

 - Josiah


#example code...
from wxPython.wx import wxPySimpleApp, wxFrame, wxTimer, wxNewId, EVT_TIMER
import time

class myframe(wxFrame):
    def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
        wxFrame.__init__(self, *args, **kwargs)
        self.t = None
        tid = wxNewId()
        self.tim = wxTimer(self, tid)
        self.tim.Start(1000, False)
        EVT_TIMER(self, tid, self.idle_handler)
    
    def idle_handler(self, evt):
        if self.t is None:
            self.t = time.time()
        else:
            print round(time.time()-self.t, 3),
            self.t = time.time()

app = wxPySimpleApp()
frame = myframe(None, -1, "Ugly Idle Handling")
frame.Show(1)
app.MainLoop()



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Nov 20 17:40:49 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 22:40:49 GMT
Subject: don't NaN & infinities hide FP errors
References: <940ee3e8.0411170130.31d247@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.18.01.49.05.537966@jerf.org>
	<419bbb08$0$531$a1866201@visi.com>
	<940ee3e8.0411182041.74321118@posting.google.com>
	<ad052e5c.0411200532.9f1a811@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <419fb960.579971695@news.oz.net>

On 20 Nov 2004 05:32:54 -0800, danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop) wrote:

>kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik) wrote in message news:<940ee3e8.0411182041.74321118 at posting.google.com>...
>> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote in message news:<419bbb08$0$531$a1866201 at visi.com>...
>> > On 2004-11-18, Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:
>> > Let's say you've got a bunch of process control modules. Each
>> > of them takes a set of input values and produces a set of
>> > outputs.
>> > 
>> > Now let's say one of the inputs fails (no valid value is
>> > available).  You can just shut down the whole refinery, you've
>> > got to try to keep going as best you can.  The easiest way to
>> > do that is to feed a NaN in on the invalid input, and let it
>> > propogate through the network of modules.  The outputs that
>> > don't depend on the invalid input remain valid.  The outputs
>> > that do depend on the invalid input are NaNs.  
>> > 
>> > At the output end of things you don't have to do all sorts of
>> > logic to figure out which outputs are valid and which ones
>> > aren't -- all you have to do is decide what to do when each
>> > output is a NaN.
>> 
>> I understand. But I wasn't saying NaN should be removed, only that
>> arithmetic operations shouldn't produce it; you will still be free to
>> explicitly set a variable to NaN if you don't have valid input.
>> 
>> Besides, Python seems to raise exceptions instead of generating NaNs
>> or infinities, at least on my machine (Linux, GCC 3.3.2, Python
>> 2.3.3). Doesn't that support my view?
>
>Python's inconsistent about OverflowErrors:
>
>Python 2.3.4 (#2, Nov 13 2004, 18:58:41)
>[GCC 3.3.5 (Debian 1:3.3.5-2)] on linux2
>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> 1e1000
>inf
>>>> 10. ** 1000
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>OverflowError: (34, 'Numerical result out of range')
>
>Python 2.1.1 (#1, Aug 25 2001, 04:19:08)
>[GCC 3.0.1] on sunos5
>Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> 1e1000
>Infinity
>>>> 10. ** 1000
>Infinity

I would guess that 1e100 is passed to a c library so the inconsistency
comes from c libraries. I'm not sure what would be the best policy. Silent
promotion to infinity is kind of squirrely in a context where a long
can easily represent the number exactly and finitely, unless you view
floating point as a special context of its own, in which case I might
like an optional exception hook that by default creates infinities and NaNs
but that I could use if I wanted to raise whatever or trace stuff etc.

But in the larger picture of numbers, overflow is a representation failure.
With decimal available, ISTM we could as well promote floats to decimal as
ints to longs, to get a unified policy across numerical representations.

BTW, my 2.4b1 returns a strange representation of infinity, that has no
round trip capability:

 Python 2.4b1 (#56, Nov  3 2004, 01:47:27)
 [GCC 3.2.3 (mingw special 20030504-1)] on win32
 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> 1e1000
 1.#INF
 >>> 1.#INF
 1.0

???
For calculated-by-python floats it seems fairly consistent, if limited:

 >>> 10.**1000
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 OverflowError: (34, 'Result too large')
 >>> float(10**1000)
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 OverflowError: long int too large to convert to float

... But not too large for decimal (or rational based on longs).

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 22:46:15 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:46:15 -0500
Subject: Rationals?
In-Reply-To: <x73bz7na6r.fsf@guru.mired.org>
References: <x73bz7na6r.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1f7befae04111719465f09c679@mail.gmail.com>

[Mike Meyer]
> With the decimals and the unification of int and long coming, it's
> natural (for me, anyway) to wonder how much interest there is in a
> rational type.

It is natural to wonder <wink>.

> There are two PEPs (239 and 240), and the Guido rejects them as
> no one seems interested in doing the work, but points out that the
> python distribution comes with examples/Demo/classes/Rat.py.
>
> I propose - in the spirit of "batteries included" - that Rat.py be
> cleaned up some (mostly to take advantage of the union of ints and
> longs)

+0

> and moved into the standard library.

-1

> Any good reasons not to do this?

There's no reason not to clean it up.  But Rat.py belongs where it is
regardless:  it *is* "a demo", too half-baked for the standard
library.  There's a better implementation in the Python sandbox:

    http://cvs.sf.net/viewcvs.py/python/python/nondist/sandbox/rational/

Moshe left that behind going on 4 years ago now, as a prototype for
PEP 239.  It's also far from being suitable for the standard library: 
the PEP is more a sketch of an idea than a specification, the PEP
needs to be accepted, the module needs real documentation, and it
needs a test suite.

The decimal PEP:

    http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0327.html

can serve as a good model for what PEP 239 should be.  I'll note that
at least a person-year of work has gone into 2.4's decimal
implementation, but even so decimal is still likely years away from
full integration with the language.  Nevertheless, several people
contributed major time to decimal, and that bodes well for its future.

leaky-AAA-cells-wasn't-"batteries-included"'s-intent-ly y'rs  - tim

PS:  If you simply want to *use* a high-powered rational type,
download gmpy and be happy tonight.


From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Thu Nov 11 00:19:01 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 21:19:01 -0800
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com> <2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<60dfb6f6.0411050715.601f381f@posting.google.com>
	<2v82u3F2dhtcpU1@uni-berlin.de> <cmoqn9$cbf$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<10p1ud2juqlkb7c@corp.supernews.com>
	<60dfb6f6.0411101037.5cd6a17d@posting.google.com>
	<10p52ccen1ql956@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <60dfb6f6.0411102119.2091c0d@posting.google.com>

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message news:<10p52ccen1ql956 at corp.supernews.com>...
> Carl Banks wrote:
> 
> >mike at hobbshouse.org (Michael Hobbs) wrote in message news:<10p1ud2juqlkb7c at corp.supernews.com>...
> >  
> >
> >>I was thinking that "rigid" would be the antonym of "fluid".
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >You are correct, of course.  However, I don't like "rigid" as a term
> >to describe typing, for a simple reason: it's not specific enough.
> >
> >Unlike solid, rigid can easily refer not only to substances, but also
> >to stances, or laws, or hierarchies, or guidelines, etc. [...]
> >
> >On the opposite end, I think I actually would prefer "liquid" to
> >"fluid".  Fluid would be ok; unlike with rigid, there are no fluid
> >stances or fluid laws, although there are fluid guidelines.  Fluid
> >isn't as general in meaning as rigid is.  However, the word liquid
> >definitely stresses the metaphor with substances a lot better then the
> >word fluid does.
> >  
> >
> 
> On the other hand, I personally think that "rigid/fluid" make a better 
> metaphor specifically *because* they are not tied so much to physical 
> properties 

Just to nitpick: something with a vague meaning really isn't a
metaphor so much as a literal description in a different sense of the
word.

If you don't like how the word solid is tied to material properties,
then it seems to me that your real problem with it is that you just
don't like metaphors.  Personally, to me, it doesn't matter too much. 
I am equally comfortable with either metaphorical or literal
descriptions.

My criteria is not whether the meaning is literal or figurative, but
whether it's specific.  Solid is; rigid isn't.


> -- they are terms that have already been generalized as 
> metaphor in the much same way as is intended here.  The parallel with 
> rigid stances, rigid hierarchies, etc, is an appropriate one -- in all 
> such cases, we're talking about something that resists attempts to 
> change its nature and/or form.  Similarly, "fluid" connotes "easily 
> conforming to its environment", an apt description of the behavior of 
> objects in a language full of automatic conversions/coercions.  At least 
> to me, the most obvious interpretation of both terms is the situation 
> we're discussing here.

Let me try to explain why I disagree with this.  If you paid attention
in your study of grammar, you might be aware that there are two use
cases for adjectives: descriptive and restrictive.  A descriptive
adjective (word, phrase, or clause) gives information about the noun,
whereas the restrictive adjective tries to distinguish it.

I don't have any problem using rigid in a descriptive sense.  It is a
wholly accurate description.

In a restrictive sense, it simply doesn't do the job: it's too
applicable to other dimensions of typing.  Rigid could easily be taken
to mean inability to reinterpret bits, and it's not a stretch at all
for it to be taken to refer to static typing.  It's certainly _most_
appicable to the implicit casting scale, but not _only_ applicable. 
The drop-off in applicabilty to other dimensions is simply not enough.
 It's too vague to be a name.

OTOH, solid has a specific (literal) meaning that is very analogous to
its proposed use (hence its suitability as a metaphor).  Thus it
qualifies as a name much better than rigid does.

That's it really.  It has nothing to do with how well it describes the
typing; just how well it identifies it.  We've seen names like strong
and weak utterly fail to identify what they mean, because they're
vague.  It would be the same with rigid.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Nov  8 14:33:32 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 20:33:32 +0100
Subject: write-time call tree?
References: <418F8975.2080406@bellsouth.net>
	<mailman.6120.1099941741.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmohm9$j1l$02$2@news.t-online.com>

> One can even make the claim that such analysis requires a solution
> to the halting problem, which is as of yet unsolved, and believed to be
> unsolvable.

Its proven that it can't be solved. Turing did it 1936. Your conclusion is
thus right of course.

Thats one of the most annoying "features" of java: Their attempt to make
code-reachablility checks when compiling. As hints, these might be ok - but
as you said, it's an instance of the halteproblem, so they cannot solve it.
But having heuristics that nevertheless try it makes code generators using
java more complicated than necessary, cluttering the code with if(true)
statements and the like.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From arsalan_zaidi at hotmail.com  Sun Nov 28 08:45:52 2004
From: arsalan_zaidi at hotmail.com (Arsalan)
Date: 28 Nov 2004 05:45:52 -0800
Subject: Packing up zope+products as an exe?
References: <583afd79.0411251701.28d8ca60@posting.google.com>
	<41a96cbc$0$25786$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <583afd79.0411280545.585e9989@posting.google.com>

Thanks for the info...

James Davies <james at foomatic.net> wrote in message news:<41a96cbc$0$25786$5a62ac22 at per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>...
> Yes- as an installer (not as a standalong application). 
> 
> If you package up an entire zope tree (using anything from from
> Installshield to WinZip self extracting exe's), you could create an
> installer and place an icon on the users desktop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arsalan wrote:
> 
> > Hi.
> > 
> > Is it possible to bundle up a couple of products + zope as a single,
> > easily distributable .exe? Something like py2exe, but for zope. And
> > cross-platform (i.e. an .exe for Win* and binary for *nix)
> > 
> > I want my users (esp windows ones) to be able to start up my zope
> > stuff locally with just a click...
> > 
> > Thanks in advance
> > 
> > --Arsalan
> > http://www.achates.biz


From s_david_rose at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 19 08:52:59 2004
From: s_david_rose at hotmail.com (GMane Python)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 08:52:59 -0500
Subject: Biometrics / Fingerprints?
Message-ID: <cnktsj$1po$1@sea.gmane.org>

Anyone know if there is the availability to integrate biometric fingerprint
scanners into python programs?





From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Fri Nov 19 16:52:36 2004
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:52:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Recursive regexps?
References: <slrncpsqao.m3p.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <slrncpsqp4.o00.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

It seems there are a *couple* of (experimental) PCRE features that
allow recursive matching:

  [T]here is some experimental support for recursive patterns using
  the non-Perl items (?R), (?number) and (?P>name). Also, the PCRE
  "callout" feature allows an external function to be called during
  pattern matching.

  [http://www.slabihoud.de/spampal/pcrecompat.html]

All of these seem pretty useful/neat :-}

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland       Fallen flower I see / Returning to its branch
http://hetland.org       Ah! a butterfly.           [Arakida Moritake]


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Nov 17 16:10:53 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:10:53 +0100
Subject: psSerial: how to write a single byte value to the serial port?
References: <5a050156.0411170057.6c27a6a4@posting.google.com>
	<419b2f5f.282498301@news.oz.net>
	<5a050156.0411171153.6f04b454@posting.google.com>
	<cngalv$t5j$05$1@news.t-online.com> <x7brdwmca2.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <cngeoq$k1g$03$1@news.t-online.com>

> Actually, it is of my concern. I need to know whether I can put null
> bytes in a string or not. If Python used the C convention, I
> couldn't. Since it doesn't, I can.

You are right. I should have thought about that, as otherwise the struct
module would be not so easy usable.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From jelle.feringa at ezct.net  Tue Nov  9 05:12:48 2004
From: jelle.feringa at ezct.net (Jelle Feringa // EZCT / Paris)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:12:48 +0100
Subject: should i start looking for a new list?
Message-ID: <20041109101248.F1B661C001B2@mwinf0101.wanadoo.fr>

I've been posting some of my most burning (newbie) questions to this list,
and most of them have been unanswered.
Should I be posting these questions at a different list, since their
technical level is quite low? Am I looking for answers in the right place?
 
-------------- next part --------------
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From codedivine at gmail.com  Mon Nov 15 13:42:11 2004
From: codedivine at gmail.com (Rahul Garg)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 10:42:11 -0800
Subject: arrays
Message-ID: <a2f50cd.0411151042.45487164@posting.google.com>

Hi.
Is there someway i can get something similar to multi-dimensional
arrays in python.I dont want to use Numarray.
rahul


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Sat Nov 27 08:17:38 2004
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile)
Date: 27 Nov 2004 05:17:38 -0800
Subject: Delphi underrated, IDE clues for Python
References: <cnlb6m$djm$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.6612.1100890189.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zn191lvk.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.23.07.09.08.229463@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<zn18e7pm.fsf@telus.net>
	<pan.2004.11.24.07.36.24.700146@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<mailman.6746.1101289610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<vtadq05nljtb7hatf77t3lfvttkajlt2s6@4ax.com>
	<opsh3oj9ap1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
Message-ID: <5c882bb5.0411270517.77ccc654@posting.google.com>

Delphi is a very good language, and quite fast too:
http://dada.perl.it/shootout/delphi.html


Caleb Hattingh>STILL...Having a Delphi-like IDE for Python would make me giddy.

Maybe here you can find a way to use both at the same time:
http://www.atug.com/andypatterns/pythonDelphiTalk.htm
http://membres.lycos.fr/marat/delphi/python.htm

Bearophile


From robin at reportlab.com  Thu Nov 18 10:48:39 2004
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:48:39 +0000
Subject: PIL for Python 2.4?
In-Reply-To: <1xerqi0g.fsf@python.net>
References: <6r6pp018glonqu2kqeau5ru9nhfj9fpchv@4ax.com>
	<mailman.6543.1100784027.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<b0cpp0tveaidq3lbnsvnji5apnloi4u2g8@4ax.com>
	<419CB9D2.2030504@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
	<1xerqi0g.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <419CC457.5050900@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

Thomas Heller wrote:
> Robin Becker <robin at reportlab.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:17:50 +0100, rumours say that Gerhard Haering
>>><gh at ghaering.de> might have written:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Has anyone built PIL (1.1.4 or 1.1.5) for Python 2.4?  If yes,
>>>>>please let me know, [...]
>>>>
>>>>I haven't. But it would have been useful if you had mentioned which
>>>>platform ;-) Windows?
>>>
>>>Oh, yes, Windows... On Linux I built it myself.  I just don't have
>>>access to a MS compiler on Windows.
>>>Sorry for not being clear.
>>
>>well I have old MS VC++ 6 and building with setup.py Python 2.4b2
>>gives an error related to the compiler; :( I guess I need MSVC++ 7.
>>
>>I have MSDN subscription, but no idea whether I can get 6 & 7 to coexist.
> 
> 
> You need 7.1, not 7.0.  Aka named Visual Studio .NET 2003.
> 
> And it coexists with 6.0.
> 
> Thomas


Thanks Thomas, I'll have a go at installing it soon.
-- 
Robin Becker


From danperl at rogers.com  Fri Nov 19 15:36:15 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:36:15 -0500
Subject: Class Encapsulation Errors in Python 2.3.3
References: <47f7cc78.0411182007.1b77c2b1@posting.google.com>
	<nrudnceoVIIV5QDcRVn-hw@rogers.com>
	<47f7cc78.0411191005.7b793bf@posting.google.com>
	<10pskhnjt2met3f@corp.supernews.com>
	<z_ydneo0T-HFxQPcRVn-ug@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <06adnWRWPNfexAPcRVn-gA@rogers.com>

Errata: instead of "complex types" please read "mutable types".

"Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote in message 
news:z_ydneo0T-HFxQPcRVn-ug at rogers.com...
>I fully agree with Jeff and I will make a couple of other small points.
>
> I saw you meant to use 'False' as a default value for the class-level 
> attribute 'songs'.  'None' is the normal value for initializations like 
> that.  It's a small point but it kind of stuck in my mind as being 
> unusual.
>
> If you still choose to use class-level attributes and to initialize them 
> with default values, you have to keep in mind that you will encounter this 
> kind of problem with all the initializations that are using complex types. 
> That means lists like in the case of 'songs', but also strings like in the 
> case of 'name' and 'artist'.  Jeff pointed out in an earlier posting that 
> there are also other ways you could get into trouble like this and it 
> should be made clear that this is true for all the complex types, not only 
> lists.
>
> Dan
>
> "Jeff Shannon" <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message 
> news:10pskhnjt2met3f at corp.supernews.com...
>> Tim Henderson wrote:
>>
>>>Here is a partial implementation, i don't have the code with me but
>>>this is how the songs list is made
>>>
>>>code:
>>>-------------------------------------------
>>>class Album:
>>>    name = ''
>>>    songs = []
>>>    artist = ''
>>>
>>>    def __init__(self, name, artist):
>>>        self.name = name
>>>        self.artist = artist
>>>-------------------------------------------
>>>
>>
>> Yes, this gives you class-level attributes, shared by all instances of 
>> Album.  In the case of name and artist, you're then creating 
>> instance-level attributes ('self.name = name') which shadow the 
>> class-level attribute.  But you never bind 'songs' on the instance, so 
>> you're just modifying the class-level (shared) songs list.
>>
>>>after reading the code i came up with a possible solution:
>>>
>>>possible code:
>>>-------------------------------------------
>>>class Album:
>>>    name = ''
>>>    songs = False
>>>    artist = ''
>>>
>>>    def __init__(self, name, artist):
>>>        self.name = name
>>>        self.artist = artist
>>>        if songs == False:
>>>            songs = []
>>>------------------------------------------
>>>
>>
>> That'll almost work -- within __init__(), you need to refer to songs as 
>> self.songs (both times).  But why bother with creating the class-level 
>> attributes?  If you just set them in __init__(), all will be fine.
>>
>> class Album:
>>
>>    def __init__(self, name, artist):
>>
>>        self.name = name
>>        self.artist = artist
>>        self.songs = []
>>
>> will have the same net effect as your code, for the vast majority of 
>> common purposes.  (There are corner cases where having class-level 
>> defaults is helpful, but I sincerely doubt that this is true for your 
>> program.)
>>
>> Jeff Shannon
>> Technician/Programmer
>> Credit International
>>
>>
>
> 




From bokr at oz.net  Sun Nov  7 02:43:59 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 07:43:59 GMT
Subject: PEP new assert idiom
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org><1gmurvv.1meude125h1zrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6027.1099792216.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<nYgjd.1129$6I1.1124@trndny05>
Message-ID: <418dc217.1833351810@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 03:50:43 GMT, "Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote:

>[F?bio Mendes]
>> This is very similar to what I'm proposing, with the only inconvinience
>> that is uglier to type:
>>
>> assert \
>>   exp1 and \
>>   exp2 and \
>>   ...
>>   expn,
>>   'ErrorMsg'
>>
>> Instead of:
>>
>> assert \
>>   exp1,
>>   exp2,
>>   ...
>>   expn,
>>   'Errormsg'
>>
>> Well, I realize I didn't expressed my thoughts very clearly and that
>> it's indeed a very minor change in python's syntax. It won't let anyone
>> does anything new, IFAIK, but it makes a common pattern of code a little
>> more beautiful, (and why not? more expressive). If one consider the fact
>> that it won't break old code (only in one very unlikely case) I don't
>> see it as a completely unreasonable suggestion. Other people may think
>> differently though.
>
>The odds of Guido accepting this proposal are about zero.  As you say, it
>doesn't do anything new, but it does require altering the grammar.  Besides,
>TOOWTDI.
>
>Also, Guido tends to not be persuaded by arguments about "too much typing".
>This is doubly true is you're talking about replacing an "and" with a comma (big
>whoop).
>
>Also, one of the existing alternatives is quite readable:
>
>err = 'Errormsg'
>assert exp1, err
>assert exp2, err
>assert exp3, err
>
>The alternative has the advantage that a failure will point to the exact
>expression that failed.  The disadvantage is the repetition of the error
>message; however, I disagree that your use case is common.  Instead, it is
>likely more advantageous to have different error messages for each expression.
>For example, the following comes from the post condition checks in QR matrix
>decomposition:
>
>assert Q.tr().mmul(Q)==eye(min(m,n)), "Q is not orthonormal"
>assert isinstance(R,UpperTri), "R is not upper triangular"
>assert R.size==(m,n), "R is does not match the original dimensions"
>assert Q.mmul(R)==self, "Q*R does not reproduce the original matrix"
>
>One could link all of these by an "and" or the proposed comma, but then you
>end-up with a single, less informative error message, "The QR decomposition
>bombed, but I won't tell you why ;-) ".
>
Besides, if you want the single message with comma-delimited expressions,
you can already write:

 >>> assert False not in map(bool, (
 ...     True,
 ...     1,
 ...     2==2
 ... )), 'Error message'

Or to show what happens
 >>> assert False not in map(bool, (
 ...     True,
 ...     1,
 ...     2==3
 ... )), 'Error message'
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 AssertionError: Error message

Or with a little helper, and then two boilerplate lines for the assert,
you can have individual messages:

 >>> def fff(*xm):
 ...     """find first false xpr in seq xpr ,msg, xpr, msg and yield pair"""
 ...     it = iter(xm)
 ...     for x in it:
 ...         m = it.next()
 ...         if not x: yield x, m; break
 ...
 >>> def test(x):
 ...     assert not [t for t in fff(
 ...
 ...         True, 'true msg',
 ...         1,    'one msg',
 ...         2==x, '2 eq x msg',
 ...         'xx', 'xx msg'
 ...
 ...     )], 'Error: expr == %r,   msg = %r'%t
 ...
 >>> test(2)
 >>> test(3)
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 7, in test
 AssertionError: Error: expr == False,   msg = '2 eq x msg'

Actually, why not just make a utility function "asserts" to do it:

 >>> def asserts(*expr_msg_seq):
 ...     """find first false expression value and assert it with paired message"""
 ...     it = iter(expr_msg_seq)
 ...     for x in it:
 ...         m = it.next()
 ...         if not x:
 ...             assert x, '%r -> %r'%(x, m)
 ...
 >>> def test(x):
 ...     asserts(
 ...         True, 'true msg',
 ...         1, 'one msg',
 ...         x, 'bool(x) is not True',
 ...         x==2, '2 eq x msg',
 ...         'xx', 'xx msg'
 ...     )
 ...
 >>> test(2)
 >>> test(3)
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 7, in test
   File "<stdin>", line 7, in asserts
 AssertionError: False -> '2 eq x msg'
 >>> test(0)
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 7, in test
   File "<stdin>", line 7, in asserts
 AssertionError: 0 -> 'bool(x) is not True'
 >>> test(())
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 7, in test
   File "<stdin>", line 7, in asserts
 AssertionError: () -> 'bool(x) is not True'
 >>> test(type('foo',(),{'__nonzero__':lambda self:0})())
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 7, in test
   File "<stdin>", line 7, in asserts
 AssertionError: <__main__.foo object at 0x02EF17AC> -> 'bool(x) is not True'
 >>> test(type('foo',(),{'__nonzero__':lambda self:1})())
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 7, in test
   File "<stdin>", line 7, in asserts
 AssertionError: False -> '2 eq x msg'
 >>> test(type('foo',(),{'__nonzero__':lambda self:1, '__cmp__':lambda s,o:0})())

I doesn't shortcut, so you could get an exception in preparing the arg list for
a sequence like
    asserts(
        den !=0, 'denom must be zero',
        num/den>5, 'better write it as assert num>5*den'
    )
which would be safer as
    assert den !=0, 'denom must be zero'
    assert num/den>5 'better write it as assert num>5*den'

Not to mention side effects, but you shouldn't have those in asserts anyway.

Silliness ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From Norbert.Klamann at klamann-software.de  Tue Nov  9 05:30:05 2004
From: Norbert.Klamann at klamann-software.de (Norbert)
Date: 9 Nov 2004 02:30:05 -0800
Subject: wax: ComboBox in Panels doesn't show up
Message-ID: <1099996205.547894.213190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hello List,
I try to use wax (0.2.33) to build a simple interface for a utility
script.
I want to use panels for layout, but the Combobox does not show. The
supplied examples which use Panel or GridPanel show only Button
Objects.

The following snippet demonstrates the problem:
-----
from wax import *
UMGEBUNGEN = ['prod', 'test']
class MainFrame(Frame):
def Body(self):
gp = GridPanel(self, rows=3, cols=3, hgap=1, vgap=1)
gp.AddComponent(0,0,Label(self, "Umgebung :"))
gp.AddComponent(1,1,ComboBox(self, UMGEBUNGEN, readonly=1))
gp.Pack()
self.AddComponent(gp)
# self.Pack() #uncommenting does not change anything
app = Application(MainFrame)
app.MainLoop()
-----

PythonWin 2.3.4 (#53, May 25 2004, 21:17:02) [MSC v.1200 32 bit
(Intel)] on win32.
WxPython 2.5.2.7
Am I missing something ?

Thx a lot for your time !

Norbert



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 17 06:08:52 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:08:52 GMT
Subject: psSerial: how to write a single byte value to the serial port?
References: <5a050156.0411170057.6c27a6a4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <419b2f5f.282498301@news.oz.net>

On 17 Nov 2004 00:57:23 -0800, mr_ravi_patil at yahoo.com (SoftwareTester) wrote:

>http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/ 
>example shows how to write string to serial port.
>
>
>#Open port 0 at "9600,8,N,1", no timeout
>
>>>> import serial
>>>> ser = serial.Serial(0) #open first serial 
>>>> ser.write("hello") #write a string
>>>> ser.close() #close port
>
>how do i write a single byte value to the serial port?

How is your single byte represented? A hex representation of the
_numeric_ code for a single character? E.g., you may need to convert
to a character string of length one (which the chr function does)
in order to pass it to ser.write (which apparently accepts the
5-char string "hello" all right).

 >>> 65
 65
 >>> chr(65)
 'A'
 >>> 0x41
 65
 >>> chr(0x41)
 'A'

thus, perhaps something like

    ser.write(chr(0x41))

or

    byte = chr(0x41)
    ser.write(byte)

(Untested, just judging from the example outputting "hello" above ;-).

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From j_mckitrick at bigfoot.com  Fri Nov 12 12:39:55 2004
From: j_mckitrick at bigfoot.com (j_mckitrick)
Date: 12 Nov 2004 09:39:55 -0800
Subject: Strong types (.NET) versus weak types (Python)
Message-ID: <ec6dce8b.0411120939.47dd1a1b@posting.google.com>

I recently took a one week course on .NET, and they emphasized over
and over again that the key is types.  Everything is strongly typed
and enforced.

Python is the exact opposite.  Yet both claim they improve
productivity and efficiency.

I prefer Python, but is .NET likely to change this view of types?

jonathon


From wh2005 at web.de  Wed Nov 24 09:20:26 2004
From: wh2005 at web.de (wolfgang haefelinger)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:20:26 GMT
Subject: read(1) returns string of length 2
References: <xM_od.25928$jf.25666@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<mailman.6749.1101298838.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <KM0pd.8790$_u6.8539@amsnews02.chello.com>

Hey Skip,

>> your basic unit of operation will be a Unicode character

That's exactly the point. What I'm expecting to be returned is
a unicode string of length 1, ie. something I'm calling a uni-
code character.

Note that I do not count the number of bytes at all.

Btw,  you  can  see  that  the  first unicode string returned
by f.read(1) is

  0x5408  (21512)

The lenght of this unicode string is 1, ie. we got a char (but
we need 2 bytes represent it).

Actually,  everything is fine until the codecs reader is about
to read '3b'. Instead of delivering this as next unicode char,
I'm getting '3b' and '0d' as string of length 2.

Anyway, my question can also be written like this:

 f = codecs.open(...)
 c = f.read(1)
 if c:
    assert len(c)==1

I was thinking that this piece of code should be true in
general.

Cheers,
Wolfgang.



"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.6749.1101298838.5135.python-list at python.org...
>
>    wolfgang> I'm trying to read (japanese) chars from a file. While doing
>    wolfgang> so I encounter that a char with length 2 is returned. Is this
>    wolfgang> to be expected or is there something wrong?
>
> I believe it's to be expected.  You opened the file with codecs.open(), so
> your basic unit of operation will be a Unicode character, not a byte.
>
>    wolfgang> My naive assumption was that f.read(1) returns always a char
>    wolfgang> of length 1 (or zero).
>
> If you simply used the builtin open() to open the file that would be true.
>
> Skip
> 




From gaudette at ele.uri.edu  Fri Nov 26 14:39:21 2004
From: gaudette at ele.uri.edu (Jason)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 11:39:21 -0800
Subject: 1 file, multiple threads
References: <41a7000c$0$16489$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <799208ed.0411261139.794c5a68@posting.google.com>

> If I have multiple threads reading from the same file, would that be a
> problem?

As long as you open each file with 'r' or 'rb' access only, it is not
a problem.  I believe you can even write to that file from one (but
only one) thread while reading the file in multiple other threads. 
This probably isn't the most robust way and may even cause some
conflicts.  You may want to check on this though.

> 
> Let's say I want to take it a step further and start writing to 1 file form
> multiple threads, how would I solve that?

If you use the built-in 'threading' module in Python, you can simple
acquire a mutex (implemented using Semaphore/Lock/RLock) before
writing and release it immediately afterward.

Example...

Your main thread would allocate a file lock:

mutex_writefile = threading.Lock()

Each thread writing to a file can do the following:

mutex_writefile.acquire()
fh = open(fname, 'a')
fh.write(str)
mutex_writefile.release()

It is important that you release your locks or you will have a
deadlock on each thread waiting to write.  See the threading module's
documentation for more details.

You could also do the same with the thread module's lock object;
however, in my opinion you gain much more functionality with threading
with little increase in complexity.

-Jay


From news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com  Fri Nov 19 12:39:59 2004
From: news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com (Will McGugan)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:39:59 +0000
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.4, release candidate 1
In-Reply-To: <419E2F4C.2010702@v.loewis.de>
References: <mailman.6581.1100848625.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du76542cm3t.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi> <419E2F4C.2010702@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <419e2ff0$0$1062$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> Ville Vainio wrote:
> 
>> The picture in the MSI installer looks quite weird (clunky /
>> pixelated, with awkward colours). This happens with win2k/1280x1024x32
>> at least. 
> 
> 
> You have only 32 colours on your screen??? I would not complain about
> awkward colours, then - 256 colors are a fairly common minimum
> requirement these days (not that the installer necessarily looks good
> in that resolution).

Im sure he meant 32bit colour..

Regards,

Will McGugan


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Sun Nov  7 03:56:43 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 08:56:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PEP new assert idiom
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmurvv.1meude125h1zrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6027.1099792216.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmvgit.vzj5g4hv9dsrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1099815505.15924.9.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <loom.20041107T094958-923@post.gmane.org>

F?bio Mendes <niels_bohr <at> uol.com.br> writes:
> 
> I never said that commas should mean line continuation (as a backslash).
> It CAN be used as implicit line continuations in lot cases, (like
> function arguments, for instance. This would be just one more case.

I'm not sure that I understand you correctly, but if you're saying that the
commas in a function argument list indicate an implicit line continuation, I
think this is probably not correct.  It's the unclosed parentheses that indicate
the line continuation, not the commas -- this is why you can write a function
argument list across multiple lines, but it's also why you can write a tuple
across lines:

>>> def f(x,
... y, z):
... 	print x, y, z
... 	
>>> f(1, 2, 3)
1 2 3
>>> (x,
... y, z) = 1, 2, 3
>>> print x, y, z
1 2 3

Note that just a trailing comma definitely does not mean a line continuation:

>>> x,
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'x' is not defined

I tried to write a tuple over multiple lines here, but (because commas do not
indicate line continuations), Python thinks I want to print the value of the
tuple containing x.

Of course, unclosed brackets work the same way as unclosed parentheses:

>>> [x,
... y, z] = 1, 2, 3
>>> print x, y, z
1 2 3

Steve



From wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca  Thu Nov 25 16:17:29 2004
From: wgshi at namao.cs.ualberta.ca (Weiguang Shi)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 21:17:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: dictionary initialization
References: <slrncqc9kq.hj3.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>
	<lIydnVF-WvXK3TvcRVn-jA@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <slrncqciv9.ip7.wgshi@namao.cs.ualberta.ca>

In article <lIydnVF-WvXK3TvcRVn-jA at rogers.com>, Dan Perl wrote:
>I don't know awk, so I don't know how your awk statement works.
It doesn't hurt to give it a try :-)

>
>Even when it comes to the python statements, I'm not sure exactly what the 
> ...
I see your point.

>
>You're saying that in awk a['hello'] is initialized to 0.  
More than that; I said awk recognizes a['hello']++ as an
arithmetic operation and initializes a['hello'] to 0 and add one to
it. (This is all guess. I didn't implement gawk. But you see my point.)

> That would not be justified in python.  The type of b[1] is
> undetermined until initialization and I don't see why it should be
> an int by default.
In my example, it was b[1]+=1. "+=1" should at least tell Python two
things: this is an add operation and one of the operands is an
integer. Based on these, shouldn't Python be able to insert the pair
"1:0" into a{} before doing the increment?

Weiguang


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Nov 24 23:44:51 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:44:51 -0800
Subject: Small Database Needed
In-Reply-To: <41a19c26$0$8197$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
References: <5b49f5aa.0411211736.faa662f@posting.google.com>
	<41a19c26$0$8197$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <20041124204107.FA10.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


"Michel Claveau - abstraction m?ta-galactique non triviale en fuite
perp?tuelle." <unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom> wrote:
> 
> Hi !
> 
> MetaKit doc :
> 
>     Iadaptive integer (becomes Python int)
>     L64-bit integer (becomes Python long)
>     FC float (becomes Python float)
>     DC double (is a Python float)
>     SC null terminated string (becomes Python string)
>     BC array of bytes (becomes Python string)
> 
> no date or datetime ?

(pardon if someone already posted the equivalent, I'm going through 900
messages because I've been not reading the list for 5 days)

Use a float and time.time(), then you don't need to convert back and
forth between date/datetime strings/objects.  If you ever need to get a
string formatted time, there is always time.asctime().

 - Josiah



From martin_ml at parvat.com  Fri Nov 26 08:12:41 2004
From: martin_ml at parvat.com (Martin C.Atkins)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 18:42:41 +0530
Subject: passing a socket to a spawned process.
In-Reply-To: <200410291908.27473.arekm@pld-linux.org>
References: <5d00592f.0410110923.2bb2b1ea@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4842.1097673119.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<fa2c4bf8.0410280000.6d937d6e@posting.google.com>
	<200410291908.27473.arekm@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <20041126184241.7c3757f4.martin_ml@parvat.com>

I have (finally!) put a package up on our website that provides a
Python module for sending file descriptors down Unix-domain sockets, on Linux.

See the first item under:
	http://www.mca-ltd.com/index.php?PAGE=resources/home.php

Please let me know of any problems, obvious omissions, etc...

BTW: I just found out about bindd (see the README), and could probably
clean the code up from the examples in its sourcecode, but the current
version of fdcred works for me! 

Sorry it has taken so long!

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin C. Atkins			martin_ml at parvat.com
Parvat Infotech Private Limited		http://www.parvat.com{/,/martin}


From nmkolev at uni-bonn.de  Tue Nov  9 16:29:35 2004
From: nmkolev at uni-bonn.de (Nickolay Kolev)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 22:29:35 +0100
Subject: Packing list elements into tuples
Message-ID: <cmrcqq$rv4$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>

Hi all,

I have a list whose length is a multiple of 3. I want to get a list  of 
tuples each of which has 3 consecutive elements from the original list, 
thus packing the list into smaller packets. Like this:

l = [1,2,3,4,5,6]

tups = [(1,2,3), (4,5,6)]

or

l = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9]

tups = [(1,2,3), (4,5,6), (7,8,9)]

if i can dictionaries it would be even better:


l = [1,2,3,4,5,6]

tups = [
	{'first':1,'second':2,'third':3},
	{'first':4,'second':5,'third':6}
	]

and so on.

Any ideas?

Many thanks in advance!

Cheers,
   -- Nickolay


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sun Nov 14 05:10:10 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 10:10:10 GMT
Subject: .pyc files...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6344.1100420809.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6344.1100420809.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6aGld.3523$G36.3157@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Eddie Parker wrote:
> I suppose that does work... Although I'm *extra* anal, and would love it to
> be 'out-of-my-face' to begin with... :)
> 
> Something like (in my_python_file.py):
> 
> __PYC_DIRECTORY__ = './intermediate/'
> 
> Would be awesome. Although I'm uncertain of a few things:

Does http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0304.html help?

"""
   Controlling Generation of Bytecode Files

Abstract

This PEP outlines a mechanism for controlling the generation and 
location of compiled Python bytecode files. This idea originally arose 
as a patch request [1] and evolved into a discussion thread on the 
python-dev mailing list [2]. The introduction of an environment variable 
will allow people installing Python or Python-based third-party packages 
to control whether or not bytecode files should be generated at 
installation time, and if so, where they should be written. It will also 
allow users to control whether or not bytecode files should be generated 
at application run-time, and if so, where they should be written.
"""

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Nov 22 15:58:54 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:58:54 -0500
Subject: is int(round(val)) safe?
In-Reply-To: <rowen-8AF206.11131622112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
References: <rowen-8AF206.11131622112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <cntjpk$qc2$2@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Russell E. Owen wrote:
> I realize this probably a stupid question, but...is it safe to 
> round to the nearest integer by using int(round(val))?

Define "safe".

> I suspect it is fine, but wanted to be sure that weird floating point 
> representation on some platform might make it unsafe there (i.e. get the 
> wrong value due to the floating point value being an approximation) and 
> if so, is there a Better Way).

Since round() returns an integer, and since (ignoring really
large integers, since I doubt you're concerned about them
here) floating point values can handle *integer* values
perfectly well, there's no reason it shouldn't do what you
want.

The problem* with floating point is inaccurate representation
of certain _fractional_ values, not integer values.

-Peter

* Well, _one_ of the problems. ;-)


From tmj at jLUNCHEON_MEATjarmania.com  Thu Nov 25 17:34:18 2004
From: tmj at jLUNCHEON_MEATjarmania.com (Tim Jarman)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 22:34:18 +0000
Subject: Identifying exceptions that can be raised
References: <cVdnd.7986$tS4.4873@trndny09>
	<mailman.6579.1100837821.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<6Rknd.6671$%M4.4203@trndny08>
	<cnmcek$rju$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<JQNnd.2125$hJ6.1416@trndny01>
	<cnrli6$j1o$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<roy-E384F5.07475422112004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <tmj-0AC5B3.22341725112004@individual.net>

In article <roy-E384F5.07475422112004 at reader1.panix.com>,
 Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:

<snip>

> 
> Computer Science is not an experimental science. 

OK, I'm an arts graduate[1] so this is probably a really stupid 
question, but what kind(s) of science would be non-experimental?

Sorry for the waste of bandwidth...

Tim J

[1] Or arts major, for the transatlantically challenged.

-- 
Remove luncheon meat to reply.


From starbuck_ms at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  8 22:44:28 2004
From: starbuck_ms at yahoo.com (Michael Sweeney)
Date: 8 Nov 2004 19:44:28 -0800
Subject: ?? Modules for GPIB and Ethernet ??
References: <21240387.0411041337.7b17172b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a4fa626b.0411081944.1fc4c0f2@posting.google.com>

justinhsia at yahoo.com (Chaser) wrote in message news:<21240387.0411041337.7b17172b at posting.google.com>...
> Hi folks,
> 
> Just wondering if anyone knows where I can find modules for NI-488.2
> GPIB and for a generic ethercard?
> 
> Thanks.

Have you checked out: http://sourceforge.net/projects/gpib82357a/

This looks like a good reference...

Mike


From none.by.e-mail  Tue Nov  2 05:29:56 2004
From: none.by.e-mail (Mike Thompson)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 21:29:56 +1100
Subject: Reading XML like Python!
In-Reply-To: <283adf56.0410280655.1f40f09e@posting.google.com>
References: <ba129ce7.0410241810.5c60a534@posting.google.com>
	<slrncntq1h.2m0.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
	<283adf56.0410280655.1f40f09e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <418761ab$0$21703$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>

Kevin Dahlhausen wrote:
> Dave Cook <davecook at nowhere.net> wrote in message 
> 
>>Check out xmlobject:
> 
> 
> I was looking for something exactly like this last week. Amazing how
> much code it cuts out.  Thanks for posting the link.

Other modules in the same category as XMLObject include:

     - anobind    http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2003/08/13/py-xml.html
     - xmltramp:  http://www.aaronsw.com/2002/xmltramp/
     - gnosis.xml http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2003/07/02/py-xml.html

--
Mike


From no-mail-please at nospam.com  Mon Nov 15 16:42:39 2004
From: no-mail-please at nospam.com (Robert Oschler)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:42:39 -0500
Subject: Python generators in Java?
References: <ppWdnQCou6jBUQXcRVn-jA@adelphia.com>
	<I%4md.41892$Z14.16845@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <ooOdnQSUvZOOvwTcRVn-jA@adelphia.com>


"Alan Kennedy" <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:I%4md.41892$Z14.16845 at news.indigo.ie...
>
> Hi Robert,
>
> Hmm, I don't see a direct question in your post, so I'll just assume
> that you're generally inquiring about generator style functionality in
java.
>
> If you're looking to achieve the execution efficiency of python
> generators, e.g. in terms of processing sequences one value at a time
> rather than generating the entire sequence and then processing, then you
> should look at java iterators, which are designed specifically for this
> purpose.
>
> Note that java 1.5 brings new syntactic features which support
> iterators, e.g. short-hand for loops like this
>
> public int sumArray(int array[]) {
>    int sum = 0;
>    for(int i : array) {
>      sum += i;
>    }
>    return sum;
> }
>
> Quite pythonic, IMHO.
>
> http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/releases/j2se15langfeat/
>
> However, if you're looking for the resumable-functions aspect of
> generators, you're out of luck: java doesn't not support them. But note
> that a java iterator will still very likely be more efficient than a
> python generator, albeit that the code won't be as clean.
>
> Note that there is a currently a proposal from the codehaus people to
> add continuations to java, which could make both generators and full
> coroutines possible in java.
>
> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/continuation/Home
>
> Lastly, it would probably be easier to discuss this subject if you gave
> an example of the type of thing you want to do, and some reasons why you
> want to do it that way. Post some python: maybe the java would be
> straightforward.
>
> Regards,
>
> -- 
> alan kennedy
> ------------------------------------------------------
> email alan:              http://xhaus.com/contact/alan

Alan,

Yes it's the resumable aspect of generators I'm after.  For me that is their
main appeal. I'm familiar with iterators from C++, but it's the ability to h
ave a function that maintains it's own "state" (generator) that is
attractive.  It simplifies a lot of thorny programming problems.

Thanks for the link on Java continuations, I'll check that out.

-- 
Robert Oschler
http://www.robotsrule.com/phpBB2/
Robot & Android Discussion Forum




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  4 17:19:07 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 23:19:07 +0100
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmp6xu.zmiw6gs3250sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5890.1099529745.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmpyz8.11h86a71kjmdttN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5916.1099587353.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmdntd$788$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5920.1099589545.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmqqa3.r7hg5g17qatxkN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5931.1099600462.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmqxmb.1r4easa174a86N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5933.1099603902.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gmr0ue.zaft2j1b4lr0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> Yeah, this goes to the heart of the misunderstanding.  I'm not asking
> anyone to justify the _existence_ of weak-typing.  Weak-typing is a direct
> result of a language's support for untyped (bit/byte) data.  I agree 100%
> that this sort of data is not only useful, but often essential in any
> low-level (e.g. OS, hardware driver, etc.) code.

But so is the ability to get at the same bits/bytes in structured ways.

> > > So, we have an area
> > of 8 bytes in memory which we need to be able to treat as:
> >     8 bytes, for I/O purposes, say;
> >     a float, to feed it to some specialized register, say;
> >     a bit indicating sign plus 15 for mantissa plus 48 for significand,
> >         or the like, to perform masking and shifting thereof in SW -- a
> >         structure of three odd-bit-sized integers juxtaposed;
> 
> As a quick refresher, I quote myself in what I was looking for: "taking
> advantage of weak-typing would be a case where you treat the bits as three
> different things: the sequence of bits, and two (mutually exclusive)
> intended structures."
> 
> My response to this example is that your two intended structures are not
> mutually exclusive.  Yes, you have to do some bit-twiddling, but only
> because your float struct doesn't have get_sign, get_mantissa and
> get_significand methods.  ;)  You're still dealing with the same
> representation, not converting to a different type.  You're just
> addressing a lower level part of the representation.

What do you mean by "mutually exclusive"?  "Never useful at the same
time"?  You're asking for an example of things never useful at the same
time that are useful at the same time?!

The struct type with so many bits being signs, exponent, significands,
IS a distinct type from double-precision float -- it's the
representation of the latter according to some standard.  To multiply by
0.1 I have to have a float, to 'get the N-bit integer that gives the
exponent shifted right by 3' I have to have that struct type.  They're
totally distinct (not "mutually exclusive" because they ARE useful as
ways to look at the same bitbunch at the same time, of course) types,
ways to analyze or interpret the same bunch of bits (apart from the
untyped representation where I can do binary I/O with them, too).


> I can see the point though: at least in most of the languages I'm familiar
> with, float is declared as a type while there's no subtype of float that
> specifies the sign, mantissa and significand.

Right.  To get at the bitfields, you use weaktyping instead.


> > Another example: we're going to send a controlblock of 64 bytes to some
> > HW peripheral, and get it back perhaps with some mods -- a typical
> > control/status arrangement.  Depending on the top 2 (or in some case 4)
> > bytes' value, the structure may need to be interpreted in several
> > possible ways, in terms of juxtaposition of characters, halfwords and
> > longwords.  Again, the driver responsible for talking with this
> > peripheral needs to be able to superimpose on the 64 bytes any of
> > several possible C-level struct's -- the cleanest way to do this would
> > appear to be pointer-casting, though unions would (as usual, of course)
> > be essentially equivalent.
> 
> Is the interpretation of the controlblock uniquely defined by the top 2 or 4
> bytes, or are there some values for the top 2 or 4 bytes for which I have to
> apply two different interpretations (C-level structs) to the same sequence of
> bits?

In the HW I was thinking of, the former is the case.

> If the top 2 or 4 bytes uniquely define the structs, then I would just say
> you're just going back and forth between a typed structure and its untyped
> representation.  If the top 2 or 4 bytes can specify multiple interpretations
> for the same sequence of bits, then this is the example I was looking for. =)

I need to examine the top bytes of the block as the HW returned it, in
some cases, to know what struct type is most useful to interpret the
bunch of bits.  There is typically only one type (besides 'just a bunch
of 64 bytes') that it useful at _one_ given time.  But weak typing does
not require parallel processing without locks -- only if two independent
threads of controls were looking at the same bits concurrently from two
separate processors would saying "at ONE time" make sense... true and
unfettered concurrent access...

As for two different interpretations of the same bits being useful (not
"at the same time"), consider a 16-bit field that can be seen as one
16-bit word or two 8-bit bytes.  In the former case, '0' means the whole
operation concluded successfully, any non-0 means problems were
encountered.  So, a piece of code that just needs a pass/nonpass filter
on the operation is best advised to tread that field as a 16-bit word,
so it can test it for == or != 0 atomically.

At a deeper level, one byte indicates possible problems of one kind (say
ones "intrinsic" to the procedure/operation in question), another
indicates possible problems of a different kind (say ones "extrinsic" to
the procedure per se, but caused by preemption, power failures, etc).
Unix return-status values aren't too far away from this.  If you need
accurate diagnosis of what went wrong, seeing the same field as two
8-bit bytes is handier (assuming you can get some kind of lock in that
case, since you are then dealing with nonatomic testing).

You could see a test such as "if x->field16 == 0:" as a weird shorthand
for "if x->field8_a == 0 and x->field8_b == 0:", but depending on
considerations of atomicity it might not even be.


Another example where the same sequence of bits may be usefully
interpreted in more ways at the same time: given a string of bytes which
encodes some unicode text in utf-8 it's clearly useful to consider it as
such, parsing it left to right byte by byte to find the unicode chars
being encoded and display the proper glyphs, etc.  But I may also want
to walk the same area of memory as a sequence of 64-bit words to compute
a simple checksum to ensure data integrity (as well as the usual need
for 'untyped' bytescan for I/O).  Or, say I don't know whether the
incoming data were utf-8 or utf-16; by walking over them in both 1-byte
(utf-8) and 2-byte units I may well be able to get strong heuristic
indications of which of the two encodings was in use.  Similar
heuristics are sometimes very useful even in determining whether a bunch
of 4-byte words from a record are floats or ints -- as long, of course,
as you CAN walk them both ways and compare strangeness-indicators.  If
you even need to recover old data from datasets whose details were lost,
you'll find that out for yourself.


Alex


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Thu Nov 11 16:43:07 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:43:07 -0700
Subject: How to load new class definitions at runtime?
In-Reply-To: <864d37090411111306159e40e8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <864d37090411111306159e40e8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4193DCEB.2040004@pythonapocrypha.com>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> I'm looking for ways to load new class definitions at runtime (I'm not
[snip]
> Now, talking about executing arbitrary code retrieved from a database
> isn't exactly a safe proposition. But I can't see any other way to
> make it work. I'm now looking for more ideas on how do other people
> solved the same problem in other projects. Pointers are welcome.

We didn't use a database, but just stored them on disk - we considered the app's 
directory to be within our security wall, and made sure it was pretty well 
locked down. Basically, if it is compromised, you can already get at all the 
secret data, so sneaking in evil Python code doesn't really give you any 
advantage. YMMV of course.

As for class definitions, we used the 'new' module to create updated modules 
(and also replaced the previous entry in sys.modules - not sure if any other 
bases need covering, but it hasn't broken yet ;-) ) and then established two 
conventions for "hot swappable" modules:

1) No module level code. Modules can have optional Setup() and Teardown() 
functions that get called if present (the most typical use case is to pass state 
from the old version of the module to the new version - the return value from 
Teardown gets passed to the new module's Setup function).

2) Don't store references to hot swap modules for long periods of time. When you 
need to use one of thoes modules, you get a reference to a module by calling an 
API (e.g. GetModule() ) and it also takes care of updating the module if it has 
changed on disk. So we had lots of code like:

def foo(arg):
   someLib = GetModule('someLib')
   someLib.biff()
   ...
   someLib.bar()

etc. - i.e. the reference is kept for relatively short amounts of time so that 
if the module gets reloaded, no code will be using the old version for very long.

Overall it has worked really well; we try to avoid as much as possible modules 
that maintain their own state because reloading can be tricky (in our simplistic 
implementation you can lose state changes if one occurs between Teardown and 
Setup - fortunately for us we haven't had any cases where that matters).

-Dave


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Nov 21 22:16:46 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 22:16:46 -0500
Subject: Identifying exceptions that can be raised
In-Reply-To: <JQNnd.2125$hJ6.1416@trndny01>
References: <cVdnd.7986$tS4.4873@trndny09>
	<mailman.6579.1100837821.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<6Rknd.6671$%M4.4203@trndny08>
	<cnmcek$rju$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<JQNnd.2125$hJ6.1416@trndny01>
Message-ID: <cnrli6$j1o$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Dan wrote:
> the thought occured to me that if I _did_ want to handle exceptions, 
> I would have no idea what the possibilities even were.

Here's another area where good unit testing can help (apologies
to those with an irrational negative reaction to test-driven
development concepts).  By writing tests which exercise the routines
you are calling in various ways, you will often find which
exceptions are of interest but not perhaps documented clearly.

For example, the other day I discovered that if you attempt
to read or write from/to a closed file, you don't get what
you might expect (an IOError or an OSError), but in fact
you get a ValueError.  Writing unit tests was what led to
this discovery.  (Perhaps it's actually documented... I don't
know and didn't bother looking.)

 >>> f = open('test', 'w')
 >>> f.close()
 >>> f.write('testing')
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ValueError: I/O operation on closed file


-Peter


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov 22 08:44:50 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:44:50 -0500
Subject: Question about classes
In-Reply-To: <ZQfod.652838$8_6.157621@attbi_s04>
References: <1101104418.G+/GLqdG7XJQNil1Jd3gOQ@teranews>
	<ZQfod.652838$8_6.157621@attbi_s04>
Message-ID: <35mod.1920$QR.217@lakeread01>

Steven Bethard wrote:

> Ben wrote:
> 
>> class foo(xstart):
>>     x = 5
>>     if xstart != 0:
>>         x = xstart
>>
>> a = foo(8)
>>
>> What I am curious about is why not? What am I missing about classes here?
>> Is the functionality delivered in some other fashion, or must I:
>>
>> class foo:
>>     x = 5
>>
>> a = foo()
>> a.x = 8
> 
> 
> The parentheses after a class name do not indicate a parameter list; 
> they indicate the list of base classes.  So generally, they must by 
> classes/types:
> 
>  >>> def make_class(base):
> ....     class C(base):
> ....         pass
> ....     return C
> ....
>  >>> make_class(object)
> <class '__main__.C'>
>  >>> make_class(1)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
>   File "<interactive input>", line 2, in make_class
> TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
>     int() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given)
> 
> If you want to set a class or instance variable for an object at 
> instantiation time, you probably want to supply the __init__ method:
> 
>  >>> class C(object):
> ....     x = 5
> ....     def __init__(self, x):
> ....         if x != 0:
> ....             C.x = x
> ....            
>  >>> c = C(0)
>  >>> c.x
> 5
>  >>> c = C(8)
>  >>> c.x
> 8
> 
> It seems strange to me that you want to set a *class* variable here, not 
> an instance variable, though perhaps you have your reasons.  Note that 
> by doing so, every time you make a new instance, you'll change the x 
> attribute for all objects:
> 
>  >>> C.x
> 5
>  >>> c1 = C(0)
>  >>> c1.x
> 5
>  >>> C.x
> 5
>  >>> c2 = C(8)
>  >>> c2.x
> 8
>  >>> c1.x
> 8
>  >>> C.x
> 8
> 
> If instead, you intended to set an instance variable, you might write it 
> like:
> 
>  >>> class C(object):
> ....     def __init__(self, x):
> ....         if x != 0:
> ....             self.x = x
> ....         else:
> ....             self.x = 5
> ....            
>  >>> c = C(0)
>  >>> c.x
> 5
>  >>> c = C(8)
>  >>> c.x
> 8
> 
> Steve

Don't forget, though, that due to the attribute resolution order, if an 
instance doesn't have a particular attribute but the class does then a 
reference to the attribute in a method will get the class attribute.

This has been used to implement class defaults in the past.

regards
  another Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov 19 01:19:26 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 07:19:26 +0100
Subject: distutils setup.cfg question.
In-Reply-To: <x7ekiqlcj0.fsf@guru.mired.org>
References: <x7ekiqlcj0.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <419d906c$0$143$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Mike Meyer wrote:
> Ok, I give up. I searched the CVS code, and can't find the place that
> turns an include_dirs option in setup.cfg into a list of
> directories. The reason I was looking for it is that I can't figure
> out how to make include_dirs include multiple directories from
> setup.cfg. Everything I try winds up putting
> -I<contents_of_include_dirs>. I couldn't even find the place where the
> string value that is returned by ConfigParser is enclosed in a list.

I did it this way:

% cd work/py2.4/Lib/distutils/
% grep setup.cfg *
dist.py:        on Windows/Mac, and setup.cfg in the current directory.
dist.py:        # All platforms support local setup.cfg
dist.py:        local_file = "setup.cfg"

So it is clearly dist.py. There, setup.cfg is returned from
find_config_files. This is called a single time only in dist.py,
namely from parse_config_files. As you can see, this is then set
as the global include_dirs option. Apparently, include_dirs really
*is* a single string, then.

Now, where is it split into multiple substrings?
% grep include_dirs *.py */*.py

This gives a long list. However, in two places, include_dirs is split:
command/config.py:            self.include_dirs = 
string.split(self.include_dirs, os.pathsep)
command/build_ext.py:            self.include_dirs = 
string.split(self.include_dirs, os.pathsep)

Both places have similar code:

         if self.include_dirs is None:
             self.include_dirs = self.distribution.include_dirs or []
         elif type(self.include_dirs) is StringType:
             self.include_dirs = string.split(self.include_dirs, os.pathsep)

HTH,
Martin


From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Wed Nov 17 09:48:24 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:48:24 +0100
Subject: Newbie:  Python & ADFGVX Cipher Cracking?
In-Reply-To: <fiJmd.1238$Tq6.434@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <fiJmd.1238$Tq6.434@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <419B64B8.5010204@geochemsource.com>


>
> The characters "ABC" can be re-arranged in several different possible 
> ways:
>
> 1) ABC
> 2) BAC
> 3) BCA
> 4) ACB
> 5) CAB
> 6) CBA
>
> Is there a python function in which I can sent a string of characters 
> to -- and it will provide me with a list of all possible combinations 
> available?
>
> example function call:   possCharList = allCombinations("ABC")
>
> Any help SINCERELY appreciated!! 

I do not this this would be an effective way. The number of the 
permutation for n characters is n factorial.
For a cipher with a block size of 10, the number of permutations is 10! 
=  3628800.
You do not really want to have a list with 3628800 elements. :-)
You should better create an iterator for this, that can loop over the 
elements. (E.g. given a permutation,
it calculates the next permutation.) Do not store all elements in memory.



From me at privacy.net  Fri Nov  5 06:37:29 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Dan Sommers)
Date: 05 Nov 2004 06:37:29 -0500
Subject: How do you execute an OS X application (bundle) from Python?
References: <70bb9f8d.0411040250.1f4ac1a@posting.google.com>
	<69cbbef2.0411041513.120fc039@posting.google.com>
	<1gmrrsj.7ljqd6f3sgkfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <m24qk4ttl2.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>

On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:41:31 +0100,
aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

> has <has.temp2 at virgin.net> wrote:

>> replacement. Much improved, though unfinished, AE support is available
>> from my site:
>> 
>> http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/appscript.html
>    ...
>> from appscript import *
>> app('TextEdit.app').open(FSSpec(pathToFile))

> OK, but how does one handle the *waiting*, so as to proceed only when
> TextEdit is done editing that document?

> "Spawning an external editor and waiting until the user is done using it
> before proceeding" is an important architectural pattern (well examined
> and analyzed in Raymond's "Art of Unix Programming", like many others).

Tty based Unix programs, yes; modern GUIs, no.  The usual parent-child
relationship between application and editor is nowhere to be found these
days.  Consider this scenario:

    1.  The application requests that Mac OS launch TextEdit and that
        TextEdit edit the given file.

        TextEdit starts (or maybe TextEdit was already running) and
        opens the document (or maybe the document was already open).
        The appliction neither knows nor cares about either of those
        details.

    2.  In any event (pun intended), the user edits the file, and maybe
        even saves it once or twice just in case there's a crash, and
        ponders the configuration before committing to it.

    3.  The user is distracted by, for example, Software Update (which
        is very annoying, but it happens), and attends to that matter.
        It could be a printer failure, or new email, or anything that
        causes the user to start working in another application.

    4.  While Software Update is thrashing, the user remembers that the
        configuration file is open but has already been saved, and
        closes it by clicking on its window's dimmed close button.
        TextEdit processes the event and closes the window without
        further ado.

At which point does the application know that the user is finished
editing the file?

With vi-as-a-child-of-the-application, even if the user spawns a
subshell (and, for that matter, an entire nested X server/session), the
termination of vi is still a well-defined.

> Ideally it should be the external editor of choice for the user;
> foisting vi on poor innocent machistas just because it's easy to wait
> for THAT and hard to wait for TextEdit would seem mean;-)...

Speaking as a long time Unix hacker *and* long time Mac user, Forcing
machistas to use a text editor instead of a GUI to edit config files
would seem mean.  ;-)

Regards,
Dan

-- 
Dan Sommers
<http://www.tombstonezero.net/dan/>
Never play leapfrog with a unicorn.


From mailto.anand.hariharan at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 09:34:19 2004
From: mailto.anand.hariharan at gmail.com (Anand Hariharan)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 06:34:19 -0800
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Ice 2.0 released
References: <ketod.45140$K7.3294@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<ted8q0h19c4disktejd9ur7pdgec0h1hl0@4ax.com>
	<s7SdnfFRp_kLGjncRVn-1A@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <22868227.0411300634.1d333921@posting.google.com>

Marc Laukien <marc at zeroc.com> wrote in message news:<s7SdnfFRp_kLGjncRVn-1A at speakeasy.net>...
> > I'm sure this is a wonderful thing, but your announcement gives absolutely
> > no clue as to what Ice is or what it is used for.
> > 
> > Please include an executive summary when you make an announcement like
> > this.
> 
> Sorry for the omission. Please see the summary below:
> 
(...)
> 
> Ice is free software, available with full source, and released under the 
> terms of the GNU General Public License (GPL). Commercial licenses are 
> available for customers who wish to use Ice for closed-source software."
> 

Interesting to see this blend of GPL and an alternative for
closed-source software.

Not totally unrelated, I saw this in your web-site (Ice vs CORBA
page):
<QUOTE>
No "Design by Committee" 
Ice was designed by a small group of dedicated and highly experienced
people.
</QUOTE>

Am interested to know, what "percentage" (*) of the code in your CVS
repository has been contributed by people other than the group
mentioned in the quote above?  Obviously, you do not allow anonymous
CVS write access.  Perhaps, one wishing to improve Ice (a freedom
granted by GPL) and who does not work for ZeroC has to mail his/her
improvements to your maintainers?

(*):  Percentage is a very nebulous term, I know.  For purposes of
answering the question, maybe you could resort to the
not-highly-meaningful number of LOC, and perhaps a word or two about
how Ice benefited from it.

- Anand

PS:  Please feel free to set FU-Ts as appropriate.


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Nov  1 07:32:19 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 13:32:19 +0100
Subject: name of an instance
References: <40a939c9.0410291820.fada696@posting.google.com>
	<40a939c9.0410310827.112f13a1@posting.google.com>
	<864d370904103113373b9698f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.5754.1099305203.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cm56ql$vkp$05$1@news.t-online.com>

andrea valle wrote:

> Hi to all,
> another basic question, but...
> How do I access the name of an instance?
> 
> I.e., if I have:
> 
> class MyClass:
> def __init__(self):
> print "here we are, kids!"
> 
> and:
>  >>> a = MyClass()
> 
> I'd like to have:
> 
>  >>> 'a'

There is no such thing as a name for an object, as many names in many scopes
may refer to the same object. The object has no way of knowing which names
refer to it.
However, you can take the brute force approach and just scan the scope you
are interested in, which may or may not be useful for debugging purposes.

>>> class T: pass
...
>>> a = b = T()
>>> c = T()
>>> def namesFor(obj, scope):
...     return [n for (n, v) in scope.iteritems() if v is obj]
...
>>> namesFor(a, globals())
['a', 'b']
>>> namesFor(c, globals())
['c']

And now with different scopes:

>>> import sys
>>> from sys import path as sys_path
>>> namesFor(sys_path, globals())
['sys_path']
>>> namesFor(sys_path, vars(sys))
['path']

Peter



From eternalsquire at comcast.net  Thu Nov  4 00:09:50 2004
From: eternalsquire at comcast.net (The Eternal Squire)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 22:09:50 -0700
Subject: pep 336:  Make None Callable
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5896.1099542209.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.5896.1099542209.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2-GdneEPltMGJBTcRVn-3g@comcast.com>


Terry Reedy wrote:
> "The Eternal Squire" <eternalsquire at comcast.net> wrote in message 
> news:dv6dndASE7CxNBTcRVn-pw at comcast.com...
> 
>>PEP: 336
>>Abstract
>>
>>    None should be a callable object that when called with any
>>    arguments has no side effect and returns None.
> 
> 
> Please no.  The None object, by definition, is an object with no value, no 
> behavior (except compares), and no specific attributes (other than those 
> common to all descendents of object).  

I always saw None not as an object without value, but as the universal
false or ground symbol, similar to NIL in Lisp.

That one can currently compare None
> to other objects can be considered a bug, and this might go away in the 
> future.
> 
> Anyone who wants a null function can write it in about 20 keypresses, and 
> include it in a utility module if one has one.

But isn't the point of Pythonic style to write something as tersely 
elegant as possible?  I'd rather not see a bunch of null methods 
sprinkled thru the classes in the libraries that I have to write, and
I'd rather not to have to import it either.

> 
> It would be more sensible to promote the addition to builtins of a 
> predefined null function -- one somewhat equivalent to 0, [], and {}.
> 

I'd like to see it standardized, and I'd like to see it intuitively 
obvious.  That's why None appears to me to be such an obvious candidate.
If None is seen as the ground symbol that happens to evaluated to false
in logical expressions, that it would seem to make sense to say that
calling the symbol is another form of evaluation of the symbol, and so
if evaluating None as a value results in None, then evaluating None as
a call should also result in None.
> Terry J. Reedy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


From greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com  Mon Nov  1 11:24:47 2004
From: greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com (Greg Lindstrom)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:24:47 -0600
Subject: Matching Control Characters
Message-ID: <00fb01c4c02f$4ea8d5a0$054b12ac@D18SYX41>

Hello-

I have a text file generated on a HP-9000 running HP-Unix with embedded
control characters and would like to read it in, modify it, and write it out
in PDF format.  The new page character is control-L which I can match with
regular expressions as

/^M    (build using control-Q control-M)

but when I attempt to use this to match the string in the program using

if re.match('^M', input_line):    # using control-Q control-M
   # issue a page feed

it will not match (no new pages are generated).

I am opening and reading the input file in binary mode.  Anyone see what I'm
doing wrong?

Thanks!
--greg



Greg Lindstrom                                         (501) 975-4859
NovaSys Health                  greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams"  W.W.




From arkham at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 21:22:25 2004
From: arkham at gmail.com (Rob Snyder)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 02:22:25 GMT
Subject: Enumerating Classes in Modules
References: <jKQmd.16312$Vk6.11976@twister.nyc.rr.com>
	<10pnu0hrq7r9tf9@corp.supernews.com>
	<j4Tmd.17277$Vk6.1450@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <BNcnd.18042$Vk6.6901@twister.nyc.rr.com>

Rob Snyder wrote:

> Jeff Shannon wrote:
> 
>> Rob Snyder wrote:
>> 
>>>Greetings -
>>>
>>>I have a situation where I need to be able to have a Python function that
>>>will take all the modules in a given directory and find all the classes
>>>defined in these modules by name. Ultimately, I would need to loop
>>>through all of these, instantiating each of the classes in turn and
>>>calling a pre-known method of each.
>>>
>>>Finding the name of each module is not a problem, but loading the classes
>>>out the module once I know the name is where I'm lost.
>>>  
>>>
>> 
>> Hm.  Any reason to not simply import the module (using the __import__()
>> function), going through all names in that module's namespace, and
>> attempting to call the method on them?  (Catching AttributeErrors as
>> necessary, of course.)
>> 
>> Something like this (untested, unresearched, and totally off the top of
>> my head):
>> 
>> for modname in nameslist:
>>     plugins[modname] = __import__(modname)
>>     # ....
>>     for item in dir(plugins[modname]):
>>         try:
>>             item.standard_method()
>>         except AttributeError:
>>             pass
>> 
>> If you need something a bit more specific, maybe you could require all
>> plugin classes to be derived from a common subclass, and before calling
>> the standard_method() you could check issubclass(item, plugin_base)...
>> 
>> Jeff Shannon
>> Technician/Programmer
>> Credit International
> 
> Any reason no to? Not other then I couldn't figure it out on my own. :)
> 
> Thanks so much for your help, this will do the trick nicely.
> 
> Rob Snyder

Just in case anyone "follows in my footsteps" and has the same problem I did
- Jeff's answer is pretty much dead on. The only stumbling block I had was
that the dir() returns a list of strings representating the name of the
attributes, and includes things that are not class definitions (e.g.
'--builtins--'). So two modifications are necessary:

1 - use the getattr() function with each item returned by dir() to actually
load the class object
2 - use type() to determine if it really it really is a classobj

For example:
for modname in nameslist:
????plugins[modname]?=?__import__(modname)
????#?....
????for?item?in?dir(plugins[modname]):
????????try:
            a = getattr(plugins[modname],item)
            if (type(a).__name__ == 'classobj'):
????????????    item.standard_method()
??????? except?AttributeError:
????????????pass
        
(or something similar, you'd probably want to do something with the try...
except).

Again, thanks for the help. I apologize for clogging up people's
newsreaders, I've just found it helpful when poeple post their conculsions
with things, so I wanted to do the same.

Rob


From m.boeren at guidance.nl  Tue Nov 30 04:39:48 2004
From: m.boeren at guidance.nl (Marc Boeren)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:39:48 +0100
Subject: comment out more than 1 line at once?
Message-ID: <0C77C7530EA52A4EBD1C47C80D1D291E17DF5A@sbs.GuidanceBV.local>


> Riko Wichmann wrote:
> 
> > Dear all,
> >
> > is there a way in Python to comment out blocks of code 
> without putting 
> > a # in front of each line? Somethings like C's
> >
> > /*
> >     block of code here is commented out
> > */

Well, you could fake it by doing

    """
    block of code here is commented out
    """

which will work most of the time...

Cheerio, Marc.


From tmj at jarmania.com  Sat Nov  6 14:38:11 2004
From: tmj at jarmania.com (Tim Jarman)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 19:38:11 +0000
Subject: Newsgroup mood [was] why python is slower than java?
References: <418b166f$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<ltFid.570952$8_6.308375@attbi_s04>
	<418b27a1$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<c76ff6fc.0411051305.76c2aade@posting.google.com>
	<418C0DB6.1040007@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<1gmtkpc.1h26kkr1rd529sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.6011.1099764243.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tmj-A593B1.19381006112004@individual.net>

In article <mailman.6011.1099764243.5135.python-list at python.org>,
 Brian van den Broek <bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca> wrote:

<snip>

> 
> What I have in mind is a wiki-page or three with links prominently
> located in the welcome message and the reminder message. I could see at
> least three distinct pages being of use. In rapid-sketch mode:
> 
> 1) Welcome to the list, here are our norms
> At minimum, a short 1-2 paragraph distillation of "Smart Questions", a 
> link to it, a reminder of the existence of the tutor list, and links to 
> the other two here mentioned.
> 
> 2) How to find information about Python
> Links to one or more of the comp.lang.python archives with perhaps some
> advice for optimal searching. This could include a link to a quick "How
> to google".
> Perhaps a link to Mark Hammond's wicked-cool Python Sidebar for 
> Firefox/Mozilla <http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/mozilla/> and 
> to any other similar aids.
> 
> 3) Links to threads that answer common questions
> Yes, there is an FAQ and yet people still ask why Python gets division
> wrong. But I've often seen people dig up links to threads for questions
> perhaps not so common to be written up in an FAQ, but perhaps common
> enough to merit linking on a wiki page. I'm not under the illusion that 
> it would solve the problem on its own, but it might well head some 
> repeat questions off. For those it doesn't, it would give an easy way to 
> answer.
> 
> Yes, some (or even all) of this info is already on Python.org. But this
> way would allow it to be audience-tailored and to be ultra-easy to
> direct newbie's toward. And yes, not all newbies read Eric Raymond's 
> "Smart Questions" essay within the first 5 times they are pointed at it. 
> Clearly it won't be a silver bullet, but maybe it would help.
> 
> As a relative newbie myself, I think I might make a better person to
> start off (1) and (2) than some of the old-hands who are further away
> from the newbie mindset. And, on the "talk not followed by effort is
> chatter" principle, I surely ought volunteer, too ;-) I'm happy to do
> so, provided 1) it doesn't strike people as a silly or hopelessly naive
> idea, 2) I'm not committed to providing a proof of concept within the
> next week :-) , and 3) I can count on other's to do the wiki thing to my 
> starting effort.
> 
> So, if anyone's still reading, thanks. I'm curious to see if the
> suggestion seems worthwhile. Best to all,
> 
> Brian vdB

Sounds good to me - go for it!


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Nov 22 13:59:10 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:59:10 -0600
Subject: py.test anyone?
In-Reply-To: <cnt6vq$b9p$1@newshost.mot.com>
References: <cnt6vq$b9p$1@newshost.mot.com>
Message-ID: <41A236FE.2090403@colorstudy.com>

Stephen Boulet wrote:
> Have people been using py.test? I was hoping to try it out but was 
> running into subversion problems (behind a corporate firewall, though 
> there is a windows registry hack for that which didn't work for me).

You could do wget -r --no-parent http://codespeak.net/svn/py/dist/py

It's obviously not the Right Way, but in a pinch...

I posted a couple examples to the py-dev list yesterday, one for 
parameterized tests and another for doctests.  Both cases should be 
integrated into py.test on some level, and/or should be easier to 
implement than they are now, but they might be of interest 
(http://codespeak.net/pipermail/py-dev/2004-November/thread.html)

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Wed Nov 17 16:54:00 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:54:00 -0700
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
 number of output arguments)
In-Reply-To: <donn-DC8989.12313317112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.6491.1100708505.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<donn-DC8989.12313317112004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <419BC878.5020600@pythonapocrypha.com>

Donn Cave wrote:
> In article <mailman.6491.1100708505.5135.python-list at python.org>,
>  Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
> 
>>Greg Ewing wrote:
>>
>>>Jeremy Bowers wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Generally, returning a tuple is either a sign that your return value
>>>>should be wrapped up in a class, or the function is doing too much.
>>>
>>>
>>>While I suspect you may be largely right, I
>>>find myself wondering why this should be so. 
>>
>>*Is* it largely right? I don't think so. As you said, there doesn't seem to be 
>>anything "wrong" with passing multiple pieces of data _into_ a function, so why 
>>should we assume that complex data passing should be so one way?
> 
> 
> What's up with keyword arguments, then?  I don't think you can argue
> that on one hand keyword arguments are a valuable feature, but plain
> by-order tuples are a totally satisfactory interface on the other hand.

I don't think anybody is putting forth the opinion that by-order tuples are 
totally satisfactory. I just disagree that returning a tuple is generally a sign 
of something wrong with your function.

-Dave


From drew at gremlinhosting.com  Tue Nov 23 17:23:47 2004
From: drew at gremlinhosting.com (Andrew James)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 22:23:47 +0000
Subject: Transfer data from webpage form to database
In-Reply-To: <liNod.42476$Z14.17919@news.indigo.ie>
References: <41a36ab7$0$23056$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net>
	<m33bz05u3p.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
	<41a38f13$0$23068$ba624c82@nntp05.dk.telia.net>
	<liNod.42476$Z14.17919@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <1101248627.25250.5.camel@odin>

Pete,
What you're looking for is an INSERT SQL query. You can find the basic
theory and some more advanced bits 'n pieces here (specifically
PostgreSQL):

http://www.commandprompt.com/ppbook/index.lxp?lxpwrap=x5504%2ehtm

The question that you're asking is so vague that you should think about
reading up on SQL before going any further - you may find yourself
quickly overwhelmed otherwise.

Andrew

On Tue, 2004-11-23 at 20:43 +0000, Alan Kennedy wrote:
> [Pete]
>  > [snip]
>  > Below is the code from my webpage form:
>  >
>  > <form action="default.asp" method="post">
> 
> You should note that the action attribute of a form must contain the URL 
> to which the form variables will be POSTed.
> 
> If you are writing a python CGI script, then action="default.asp" is 
> almost certainly wrong, unless you have called your python script 
> "default.asp".
> 
> The URL for your python script is the value that should go in the action 
> attribute, like so
> 
> <form action="http://mydomain.com/cgi-bin/my_cgi_script.py" method="post">
> 
> or you could leave out the server name bit.
> 
> <form action="/cgi-bin/my_cgi_script.py" method="post">
> 
> HTH,
> 
> -- 
> alan kennedy
> ------------------------------------------------------
> email alan:              http://xhaus.com/contact/alan
-- 
Andrew James <drew at gremlinhosting.com>



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Nov 15 11:10:41 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:10:41 +0200
Subject: .pyc files...
References: <4197ec65$0$21106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.6364.1100476437.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <h0lhp0dbld6mj3b75pd279d2lqmmcrrmbg@4ax.com>

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 23:53:53 GMT, rumours say that Jp Calderone
<exarkun at divmod.com> might have written:

>> What's the difference? I've never seen (read: used)
>> the $(...) syntax...
>
>  $() is a bash-ism.  `` is POSIX sh.  I'm not aware of any other significant differences (quoting rules vary, etc).  In particular, I can't think of any differences which would make $() preferable.

$( ) is not a bashism, I've been using it with ksh long before learning
about bash.  It is part of the POSIX sh.  See Command Substitution:

http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/xcu_chap02.html#tag_02_06_03
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
"Tssss!" --Brad Pitt as Achilles in unprecedented Ancient Greek


From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Thu Nov  4 02:36:54 2004
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 07:36:54 GMT
Subject: dicts & lists together
References: <cm8kki$4fi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <q_kid.858$FH1.632@trndny01>

"Brad Tilley" <bradtilley at gmail.com>
> I have a dict that associates strings to numbers like this {'abc': 1,
> 'xyz':2, '123':3,...} I am then given a list of strings ['abc', 'xyz',
> '123',...] and asked to associate a number to each string in the list
> according to the string's value in the dict. I am at a loss as to how to
> do this, can someone show me where to start?

Is this a homework assignment?


Raymond Hettinger




From MLists at romulo.de  Wed Nov 10 04:48:42 2004
From: MLists at romulo.de (Rainer Mansfeld)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:48:42 +0100
Subject: Concise idiom to initialize dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <89D59C407D04D54AA82DC8BA312D430D10C6175C@enyc11p32001.corpny.csfb.com>
References: <89D59C407D04D54AA82DC8BA312D430D10C6175C@enyc11p32001.corpny.csfb.com>
Message-ID: <4191E3FA.5070607@romulo.de>

Frohnhofer, James wrote:
> The number of dictionaries I need is 12.  I started out with a dictionary of
> dictionaries, but my expressions (where I was actually using the dictionaries)
> were pushed over the readibility edge by the extra level of indirection.  I
> will probably stick with initializing them individually, preferring clear code
> to compact code (while always trying for both).

Being a C/C++ programmer with only a couple of weeks of Python
experience, I'd simply do:

a = b = c = d = e = f = g = h = i = j = k = l = {}

That's clear and compact, but is it 'pythonic'?

    Rainer



From python-list at hazen.net  Tue Nov  2 14:56:09 2004
From: python-list at hazen.net (John Hazen)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 11:56:09 -0800
Subject: Python needs a CPyAN
In-Reply-To: <10of7jtm07h7f77@news.supernews.com>
References: <b16e4ef7.0411020539.4c6aa338@posting.google.com>
	<10of7jtm07h7f77@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20041102195609.GA17009@gate2.hazen.net>

[Stephen Ferg]
[ ... wants a CPyAN ...]

[John Roth]

> How does the Python Package Index not meet this need?
> 
> I can think of one very serious difference, which has
> kept me from placing a module in the PPI.

Ummm...  Care to let us in on it?  While your subtle hint may make sense
to those who have submitted packages for inclusion, I suspect I speak
for the many more of us who haven't.  What's your objection?

-John Hazen


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Nov 17 22:47:27 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:47:27 -0800
Subject: Rationals?
In-Reply-To: <x73bz7na6r.fsf@guru.mired.org>
References: <x73bz7na6r.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <20041117194230.F9BA.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
> 
> With the decimals and the unification of int and long coming, it's natural
> (for me, anyway) to wonder how much interest there is in a rational type.
> There are two PEPs (239 and 240), and the Guido rejects them as no one
> seems interested in doing the work, but points out that the python
> distribution comes with examples/Demo/classes/Rat.py.
> 
> I propose - in the spirit of "batteries included" - that Rat.py be
> cleaned up some (mostly to take advantage of the union of ints and
> longs) and moved into the standard library.
> 
> Any good reasons not to do this?

Update the PEP, do the work, and offer a good rational number object (if
you are interested in doing such). I have personally written at least
two different rational classes, and I am aware of at least 3 others
(though I can't remember their names).

If it is implemented in Python; stay away from the binary GCD algorithm,
Euclid's is faster.

 - Josiah



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Nov  7 22:41:28 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 21:41:28 -0600
Subject: remove assert statement (Was: Re: PEP new assert idiom)
References: <mailman.6017.1099776962.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr7n62t0v.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <Lmjjd.2124$Zl2.96@trndny01>
	<7xy8hep325.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.6055.1099832572.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10osqs5al7tii49@news.supernews.com>
	<7xhdo1pk1u.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <10otqnbjf2lc5ac@news.supernews.com>


"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message 
news:7xhdo1pk1u.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:
>> I see assert as a statement of an invariant: each and every time
>> I come here this *must* be true.
>
> Yes, that was the intention of the assert statement.  However, there's
> a very great temptation to use it for a somewhat different purpose,
> namely checking data validity.  When there's a great temptation to
> misuse some feature to do X when it's really intended for Y, that's a
> sign that it's time to add an equally convenient feature intended for
> doing X.
>
>> For me, an assert failing is a programing error in the caller, not
>> in the method with the assert!  Trying to catch an assert is a misuse
>> of what the statement provides.
>
> There's a slight non-sequitur there.  Every large system contains
> programming errors, and assert statements are a good way to detect the
> errors.  If an assert fails and isn't caught, the system crashes.
> Crashing a running system on detection of the slightest programming
> error is not always an acceptable thing to do.  Sometimes you have to
> log the error and try to recover from it, disable the feature where
> the error happened until someone can figure out what went wrong, or
> whatever; but not crash.  So you need to be able to catch assert
> failures.

I think I didn't say it quite well enough. Of course you catch
assert errors, but you classify them the same as non-recoverable
environmental errors: you scrub whatever unit of work you were
working on, log the error and try to recover the application so
the user can continue.

I think we're in agreement that what you don't want to do
is try to catch and recover from a specific assert error.

John Roth 



From fumanchu at amor.org  Wed Nov  3 18:17:59 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 15:17:59 -0800
Subject: recursive method  in __init__
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E324511F@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

paul koelle wrote:
> I thought it would be nice to have instances that can "live" 
> somehow in 
> the "background" and do some tasks without being told so. The 
> problem in 
> the code below is: calling new_host = Host(ip, mac, collector) never 
> "returns" because the the self.update() method gets called 
> recursively. 
> Im pretty sure I have to restructure the code and call the update() 
> method from outside but I ask out of curiosity and to get 
> some ideas how 
> to do such things elegantly.

Use threading. Try three cooperating functions:

1. run(), which does the work you want done,
2. motivate(), which starts a new thread, which starts by calling...
3. _cycle(), which calls motivate(), then run().

The example below is from Cation, a web application framework. You start
the cycle via:
>>> worker = ApplicationWorker(name, app, recurrence, **kwargs)
>>> worker.motivate()


class ApplicationWorker(object):
    """Perform work for an application on a schedule.
    
    You must override work(), which is called at each interval.
    
    active: a boolean flag indicating whether or not the Worker's run()
        method should be executed at each interval. Notice that, even if
        active is False, recurring Workers will continue to schedule new
        threads--they simply won't do anything at run() time.
    
    kwargs: a dictionary where each k, v pair represents an (optional)
        kwarg to the worker. "key" should be a string, the name of the
        argument. Values should be populated with defaults where
possible.
        Override this at the class level when subclassing
ApplicationWorker.
    """
    
    kwargs = {}
    
    def __init__(self, name, application, recurrence, **kwargs):
        self.name = name
        self.application = application
        self.log = application.logger
        self.recurrence = recurrence
        if self.recurrence:
            # Throw away the first occurrence value,
            # which is almost always .now()
            self.recurrence.next()
        self.kwargs = {}
        self.kwargs.update(self.__class__.kwargs)
        self.kwargs.update(kwargs)
        self.createdate = datetime.datetime.now()
        self.lastrun = None
        self.active = True
    
    def motivate(self):
        """Start a new immediate or recurring thread for work."""
        if self.recurrence:
            # Start a recurring, timed Thread.
            nextThread = threading.Timer(self.recurrence.interval(),
                                         self._cycle)
            nextThread.start()
        else:
            # Start a single, non-recurring thread.
            threading.Thread(None, self.run).start()
    
    def _cycle(self):
        """Run the worker on a schedule."""
        self.motivate()
        self.run()
    
    def run(self):
        """Prepare for work. Errors are logged, then ignored."""
        if self.active:
            try:
                self.work()
                self.lastrun = datetime.datetime.now()
                msg = (u"Worker '%s' completed successfully." %
self.name)
                self.log.info(msg)
            except Exception:
                self.log.exception(self.__class__.__name__)
    
    def work(self):
        raise NotImplementedError


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  4 14:31:52 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 12:31:52 -0700
Subject: How to use python in matlab
References: <8f17f4bc.0410291738.2f3708b8@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5767.1099319977.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8f17f4bc.0411041116.8655ce2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cme039$h48$1@sea.gmane.org>

Ali wrote:

> ok so is there a thing I can download that will do the symbolic stuff
> that matlab can do?

http://maxima.sourceforge.net/

To my knowledge, this is the only free competitor to Mathematica and Maple
(btw, matlab has no symbolic capabilities of its own, it just licenses the
Maple engine).

Best,

f



From bojanraic at gmail.com  Sat Nov 20 17:02:07 2004
From: bojanraic at gmail.com (bojanraic at gmail.com)
Date: 20 Nov 2004 14:02:07 -0800
Subject: CGI email script
Message-ID: <db4aff64.0411201402.66600328@posting.google.com>

Hi!

I recently started playing with Python CGI, and I was happy that my
basic input-name--print-hello-name CGI form example worked, so I
thought I should advance to somew\hat more complicated scripts.

I'm trying to write a basic Python email CGI script to send email
through HTML email form.
I've seen a lot of examples out there, but nothing I tried so far
seemed to work. So I would like to know what I am doing wrong.

Here's the HTML  form file:

<html>

<head>
<title>Email Form</title>
</head>

<body>

<FORM METHOD="POST" ACTION="sendMail.cgi">
      <INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME="key" VALUE="process">
      Your name:<BR>
      <INPUT TYPE=TEXT NAME="name" size=60>
      <BR>
      Email:<BR>
      <INPUT TYPE=TEXT NAME="email" size=60>
      <BR>
  <P>
      Comments:<BR>
      <TEXTAREA NAME="comment" ROWS=8 COLS=60>
      </TEXTAREA>
      <P>     
        <INPUT TYPE="SUBMIT" VALUE="Send">
    </FORM>

</body>

</html>

Here's the CGI script:

#!/usr/bin/python

import cgitb
cgitb.enable()
import cgi
import smtplib

print "Content-type: text/html\n"

def main():
    form = cgi.FieldStorage()
    if form.has_key("name") and form["name"].value != "":
        fromaddress = form["email"].value
        toaddress = my at email.com
        message = form["comment"].value

    server = smtplib.SMTP('localhost')
    server.set_debuglevel(1)
    server.sendmail(fromaddress, toaddress, message)
    server.quit()

    print "<html><head><title>Sent</title></head>"
    print "<body><h1 align=center>",
    print "<p>Your message has been sent!</body>"
    print "</html>"

if __name__ == '__main__': main()



Of course, I change the email address to my own.
I keep getting the premature end of script headers error.

Several questions:

1. server = smtplib.SMTP('localhost') should return the name of the
server, right? I don't need to explicitly name it, or do I?
2. cgitb.enable() - shouldn't that give me a trace back if something
goes wrong so I can debug the code? It doesn't seem to give me
anything...
3. What am I doing wrong here? How can I fix the errors and make it
work?

Please understand that I have read all the previous questions on this
matter, and when I tried to follow the instructions, none of them
seemed to work for me.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.


From theller at python.net  Tue Nov 23 09:10:15 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:10:15 +0100
Subject: Using alternative PyObject* in dynamically created classes
References: <tyfbrdu1b2m.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyf653whfyi.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <brdowta0.fsf@python.net>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:
>
>> I would like some of my _dynamically_ created new-style classes to
>> have instances which are not represented by the standard PyObject, but
>> one which has an extra void* slot which I want to use for my nefarious
>> purposes, in extension functions. The pointer need not be initialized
>> (for now) I just want it to be there in case I want to stuff something
>> in there later on in the run.
>> 
>> What is the laziest way of achieving this?
>> 
>> As far as I can tell, PyTypeObject (and its allocators, deallocators,
>> methods in general) only refer to the type of the instance struct via
>> tp_basicsize (where only the struct's size is held). 
>> 
>> So my first attempt merely resets tp_basicsize to the size of my
>> alternative instance struct, as soon as the class is created. This
>> goes horribly wrong when instances of the class are deallocated, but I
>> can't see why.
>> 
>> Where else must I provide information about the instance struct type ?
>> 
>> 
>> [I will be away for a few days, from a few hours from now; please
>> don't take a long response time as a sign of rudeness.]
>
>
> Hmm ... no takers ?
>
> :-(

Can't you simply create a new, subclassable Python type with an
additonal void* slot, and derive your classes from it?  Where's the
problem?

Thomas


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Fri Nov 26 04:27:48 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 09:27:48 GMT
Subject: A lock that times out but doesn't poll
References: <slrncq5vvl.61m.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<kJqpd.5108720$ic1.478957@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <slrncqdtoj.61m.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-11-25, Jive schreef <someone at microsoft.com>:
> I just took a look at Timer in threading.py.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but
> it appears that the
> timer always stays around for the programmed interval, even if cancel() is
> called on it.  If that's the
> case, it's hard for me to see how it could be used to implement a useful
> timed lock.  The typical scenario
> is for a thread to obtain a lock fairly quickly when things are functioning
> properly, but to wait on it with
> a long timeout in case some resource dries up -- like a socket connection
> breaks.  In that scenario,
> a thread that repeatedly waits on a timed lock will generate new Timer
> threads faster than they will die off.

Only at the beginning, after the mean timeout Timer threads should die
out as fast as new are created. But that may be too much.

But is is worst. I found out that in order to wait the specific time
the Timer class uses a polling loop until the specified time is expired.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Fri Nov 26 12:42:52 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:42:52 -0200
Subject: PEP263 + exec statement
In-Reply-To: <41A76194.2070907@iinet.net.au>
References: <mailman.6806.1101470454.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41a7361d$0$25779$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
	<864d370904112608132d94d7d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<41A76194.2070907@iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <864d370904112609421fe475e2@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 03:02:12 +1000, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Even with a source encoding declared, I believe this statement still creates an
> ASCII string, so the encoding information gets lost. What happens if you make it
> explicitly unicode? (i.e. s = u"""". . . etc)

Well, that was an quite obvious mistake of mine. But even so... when a
file is read, it's supposed to be ASCII-only, but it still gives the
warning for extended ASCII characters.

Anyway, I decided to give it a try. I'm still not sure if these are
the expected results. u is a unicode string (the same as for the
previous ASCII test). e is the same source code, but with encoding
enabled on the second line. I

In [9]: u = u"""
   ...: a = "Ol?!"
   ...: print "a:", a
   ...: print "repr(a):", repr(a)
   ...: b = u"Ol?"
   ...: print "b:", b
   ...: print "b(latin-1):", b.encode('latin-1')
   ...: """

In [10]: e = u"""
   ....: # -*- coding: iso-8859-1 -*-
   ....: a = "Ol?!"
   ....: print "a:", a
   ....: print "repr(a):", repr(a)
   ....: b = u"Ol?"
   ....: print "b:", b
   ....: """

In [11]: exec u
a: Ol??!
repr(a): 'Ol\xc3\xa1!'
b: Ol?
b(latin-1): Ol?

In [12]: exec e
a: Ol??!
repr(a): 'Ol\xc3\xa1!'
b: Ol?

In [13]:

Curious as I am, I decided to do some tests. I found something quite
weird when I added I tried to concatenate the comment on the string.
Exec failed with a weird message, but worked after encoding.

In [64]: u
Out[64]: u'\na = "Ol\xe1!"\nprint "a:", a\nprint "repr(a):",
repr(a)\nb = u"Ol\xe1"\nprint "b:", b\nprint "b(latin-1):",
b.encode(\'latin-1\')\n'

In [65]: e = "# -*- coding: iso-8859-1 -*-\n" + u

In [66]: exec e
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
SystemError                               Traceback (most recent call last)

/home/cribeiro/work/CherryPy/branches/cribeiro-experimental/<console>

SystemError: compile_node: unexpected node type

In [67]: e = u"# -*- coding: iso-8859-1 -*-\n" + u

In [68]: exec e
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
SystemError                               Traceback (most recent call last)

/home/cribeiro/work/CherryPy/branches/cribeiro-experimental/<console>

SystemError: compile_node: unexpected node type

In [69]: exec e.encode('latin-1')
a: Ol?!
repr(a): 'Ol\xe1!'
b: Ol?
b(latin-1): Ol?

Quite weird. Is it appropriate to post it at python-dev?

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Nov 25 02:04:15 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 20:04:15 +1300
Subject: Is Python/C api thread safety enough?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6663.1101015691.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6663.1101015691.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <30lefkF30siv0U1@uni-berlin.de>

Donnie Leen wrote:

> If the long-running function comes from third-party library
> such as zlib.compress(), we don't know wether the function is
> safety for python thread, it may cause error, how could we
> avoid this if we have to use it?

A third-party library that knows nothing about Python
is unlikely to be making any Python/C API calls, so
you should be safe in that case.

If you pass a callback function to the library, and
your callback makes any Python/C API calls, it will
need to make sure it holds the GIL around those calls.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sun Nov  7 23:48:51 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 20:48:51 -0800
Subject: How come wxPython isn't in the standard library?
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<aj3u52-a2r.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<ogjv52-anq.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<mailman.6060.1099838610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cmli2h$c18$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<1099858070.544710.146320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2004.11.08.02.45.17.938980@wp.pl>
Message-ID: <nua362-miv.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Maciej Katafiasz wrote:
> PyGTK. It has not as nice API (reminds me of Win32 API, which is
> disastrous),

The original wxWidgets API was somewhat reminiscent of Microsoft's
MFC.  There isn't anything "disastrous" about it.  You have a
class hierarchy, methods and properties.  What exactly is the
issue you have?

> isn't in my experience really stable,

Care to substantiate that?  (I mean now, not several years ago).

> uses outdated gtk+ 1.2 on my primary platform,

wxPython works with both GTK 1 and 2.  Until wxPython 2.5, Robin
couldn't find a way to distribute GTK 2 based binaries that would
work on any machine.  You could compile yourself against GTK2.

> non-LCD) widget, like treeview or fileselector. I feel no urge to
> have yet another "standard" GUI in python I won't ever use.

Wherever possible, wxWidgets uses the native widgets.  I ran the wxPython
demo and looked at both widgets you mention and they appear identical
to ones in other Gnome programs (I run Gnome for my Linux desktop).

> GUI toolkit isn't something a language should provide.

It is *extremely* rare for a language environment not to provide a
gui and associated tools.  About the only other major one I can think of
that doesn't is Perl.  (You could argue that GNU C/C++ on Unix doesn't
either, but that is due to GUI deficiency on Unix.  On other platforms
such as Windows and Mac, C/C++ does come with gui tools and libraries).

> there (and as I said, I don't consider wxWidgets to be good toolkit)

I don't think that statement can be supported.  wxPython/widgets has been
getting better constantly.  However I don't think that wxPython should
be in the standard library because it is improving and has more frequent
release cycles, and I would like to take advantage of that.

Roger 




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Nov  3 17:30:29 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 14:30:29 -0800
Subject: threads and exception in wxPython
In-Reply-To: <cthk6t3tjcs.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
References: <mailman.5825.1099416401.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cthk6t3tjcs.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
Message-ID: <20041103100520.F7F0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Zunbeltz Izaola <zunbeltz at wm.lc.ehu.es.XXX> wrote:
> 
> Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> writes:
> 
> > from StringIO import StringIO
> > import traceback
> > import Queue
> > 
> > traceback_queue = Queue.Queue()
> > 
> > ...
> >     def run(self):
> >         try:
> >             ...
> >         except:
> >             tb = StringIO()
> >             traceback.print_exc(tb)
> >             traceback_queue.put(tb.getvalue())
> > ...
> > 
> > 
> >  - Josiah
> > 
> 
> Ok, thanks for the help. But  I still have a problem. When the lines
> in the try block raise an exception it is saved in the traceback_quee
> and the thread is finished. Is that correct?. The problem is how do I
> inspect the queue? The function that creates the thread is something
> like that
> 
>     def OnMeasurement(self):
>         self.CurrentMeasurement.start()
> 
> If I put some code after the .start() method the queue will be
> empty. Do I need to insert a infinite loop to see when the exception
> is raised?

In your main thread (the one handling the GUI), you can set up a
wx.Timer() whose bound event checks the queue every second or so.

As another poster mentioned, you can also post events to the GUI, which
can either say "there is an exception traceback in the queue" or "here
is the exception traceback".

It is really all a matter of taste.


 - Josiah



From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 08:17:35 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 30 Nov 2004 05:17:35 -0800
Subject: Bookmark CGI in Python
Message-ID: <6f402501.0411300517.3ea70eea@posting.google.com>

Anyone written an online bookmarks manager in Python ?

I can knock a simple one together... but wondered if anyone else had
already done it ? I can't find one with google - but htere are *loads*
in perl and PHP, so I suspect thayt someoen must have written one
witrh python. One that uses XBEL would be nice - but it's not that
important.

Regards,

Fuzzy
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Nov 24 13:02:12 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 12:02:12 -0600
Subject: teaching OO
In-Reply-To: <slrncq8inq.9gv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
References: <slrncq8inq.9gv.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <41A4CCA4.4010203@colorstudy.com>

Gabriel Zachmann wrote:
> This post is not strictly Python-specific, still
> I would like to learn other university teachers' opinion.
> 
> Currently, I'm teaching "introduction to OO programming" at the undergrad
> level. My syllabus this semester consists of a bit of Python (as an example
> of a scripting language) and C++ (as an example of a compiled language).
> With C++, I go all the way up to meta-programming.
> 
> My question now is: do you think I should switch over to Python completely
> (next time), and dump all the interesting issues involved in C++'s virtual
> classes, overloading, and templates? (In Python, all of that would just
> disappear ... ;-) )
> 
> (The opinion of the people on this NG might well be a little bit biased
> towards Python, but that's ok ;-).)

Well, I haven't taught Python (though I think it would be fun to try 
sometime), so you can take my opinion as you will.  But, if I was 
judging languages I'd find Python's advantage to be primarily the 
simplicity of the interface and tools.  With Python you don't have to 
spend (much) time learning the tools, or even the library; students in 
many intro CS classes seem to spend a lot of time getting *anything* to 
work, and it keeps them from getting to the interesting programming 
problems.  I also think OO and other programming methodologies become 
more relevent when you are faced with significant design challenges, and 
intro programmers won't ever be able to make a significant program in a 
C++ class.

More generally, I think a good class is one that gives the students many 
opportunities for making mistakes.  Ideally every student would make 
many, many mistakes -- no matter their skill.  More skilled students 
should simply be making more ambitious projects, and failing at a more 
advanced level.  From this perspective, simply making programming fun is 
particularly important, because if it's not fun the students won't press 
themselves to the limit of their skills, they'll only be doing the 
prescribed work.  And Python is more fun.

 From a CS perspective, I'd obviously (since this is a partisan forum) 
say that Python presents the core concepts of OO better than C++.  But I 
actively disagree with the core concepts of OO as defined by most C++ 
academics, really falling into the Smalltalk camp; treasuring 
flexibility and cooperation of systems over formalism and encapsulation. 
  In many ways the result can be the same -- the objects and methods and 
interactions of similar systems may look the same across these 
langauges.  But I prefer the carrot (the potential to make a great 
program) over the stick (the inability to use code in ways the initial 
programmer did not intend).  This philosophy of transparency and 
no-boundry refactoring is also fundamental to the free/open source 
software community, which I honestly see as fundamentally (if sometimes 
subtley) different from proprietary development; it's not just a matter 
of license.

Anyway, I see many C++-specific OO notions (like templates, by-reference 
vs. by-value calling, etc) as coping mechanisms.  This is because I come 
at it from the perspective of a dynamic language programmer (before 
Python I preferred languages like Scheme or Smalltalk).  These 
judgements are something a programmer acquires early on.  Conversely, if 
you start with C++ or C, you might see a dynamic language as a facade 
ontop of the more fundamental notions of pointers and memory management. 
  Certainly people drift, and one class won't set a person's perspective 
in stone, but it's important.  At the same time, the students are young 
-- you aren't training them for what is, but what will be.  I think it's 
clear the future of programming won't look like C++.  It won't 
necessarily look like Python either; Java and C# fall somewhere in 
between; they appear somewhat like C in syntax, but you have to 
remembering that they too don't have manually memory management, 
templating, heavily-used overloading, or pointers.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Mon Nov  8 18:50:17 2004
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe Cavalaria)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 00:50:17 +0100
Subject: How come wxPython isn't in the standard library?
References: <mailman.5987.1099705208.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1099858070.544710.146320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1099858260.250679.61490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.6096.1099870240.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41900639$0$20024$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

James Stroud wrote:

> On Sunday 07 November 2004 06:43 am, BJ?rn Lindqvist wrote:
>> IMHO, this is a no issue. It doesn't matter that much if the source is
>> 8 or 26 mb. In fact, 8 mb is extremely small download for a
>> programming language.
> 
> What am I missing here? Lets look at it from an END USER's perspective. I
> come from a situation where I was sys-admin to where I am the 0 privelige
> user. I wanted to install a python module. So I called in the sys-admin.
> He tried to add it with RPM. This rpm depended on that rpm and that rpm
> depended on a chicken which depended on an egg which, expectedly, depended
> on a chicken--you can guess where this is going.

Bad sysadmin, change sysadmin. All you need to do then if you aren't using
some apt-like is to install all the offending rpms with a single command.
Yes, you can pass multiple rpm files to the rpm -i command.


From bokr at oz.net  Sat Nov 20 02:54:24 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 07:54:24 GMT
Subject: Pythonic list to bitflag mapping
References: <76c29906.0411191647.4b135e06@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6636.1100919506.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <419ef59c.529855361@news.oz.net>

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:05:04 -0600, Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:

>On Friday 19 November 2004 06:47 pm, Ramon Felciano wrote:
>> a = [3,4,6]
>> b = [0,0,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,0] # a 1 for each position in the a list
>[...] 
>> I can do this with loops etc, but was curious if there isn't a python
>> one-liner or list comprehension way of doing it. What I'd like to
>> write is something like the following:
>> 
>> [1 if x in a else 0 for x in range(10)]
>
>[x in a for x in range(10)]
>
>Though this will return boolean True/False values in Python 2.3+ and
>an int in earlier versions.  However conditional operations will work
>on either, so your code may tolerate this.
>
>If you must have 0 and 1 though, you can use:
>
>[(x in a and 1 or 0) for x in range(10)]
>
Or, since

 >>> issubclass(bool, int)
 True

then

 >>> a = [3 ,4 ,6]
 >>> [x in a for x in xrange(10)]
 [False, False, False, True, True, False, True, False, False, False]

Is easily converted:
 >>> [int(x in a) for x in xrange(10)]
 [0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0]

Or can be used directly as an integer index to get a character

 >>> ['01'[x in a] for x in xrange(10)]
 ['0', '0', '0', '1', '1', '0', '1', '0', '0', '0']

for whatever...
 >>> ''.join(['01'[x in a] for x in xrange(10)])
 '0001101000'

etc.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Nov 23 14:37:04 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:37:04 +0100
Subject: unicode question
In-Reply-To: <41A33A7D.7090506@holdenweb.com>
References: <qkLnd.22919$jf.19362@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<419fc9b9$0$198$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<419ff7cd_3@newspeer2.tds.net> <41A061E1.8050203@v.loewis.de>
	<KH_nd.23139$jf.19287@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<41a0ab62$0$151$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<Y3hod.23808$jf.11140@amsnews03-serv.chello.com>
	<41a1d80d.718896828@news.oz.net>
	<41a27514$0$179$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<41a28c3d.765024687@news.oz.net> <41A33A7D.7090506@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <41a39160$0$192$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Am I the only person who found it scary that Bengt could apparently 
> casually drop on a polynomial the would decode to " L?wis"?

I'm not scared, but honored, of course.

Regards,
Martin


From ch.pingel at web.de  Thu Nov 18 12:23:16 2004
From: ch.pingel at web.de (Christoph Pingel)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 18:23:16 +0100
Subject: regex-strategy for finding *similar* words?
In-Reply-To: <cni8a5$fpl$1@news.sap-ag.de>
References: <1100774319.18258.249.camel@bucket.localnet>
	<mailman.6541.1100780393.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cni8a5$fpl$1@news.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <a06100504bdc283eb1d61@[80.139.60.165]>

Thank you, Levensthein distance and agrep sound both interesting, 
I'll try both I think.

best,
Christoph


From hudson.sattler at integrationman.com  Tue Nov  2 19:20:28 2004
From: hudson.sattler at integrationman.com (Hudson)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 00:20:28 GMT
Subject: Python script produces "sem_trywait: Permission denied"
Message-ID: <4188244b@news.comindico.com.au>

Hi,

I have just recently build python 2.3.3 on an AIX 5.2 version using gcc
v3.3.2 (i built python as root and installed gcc from a rpm file).
When we run any python script as root they work.  But any other
user produces the following three messages;
sem_trywait: Permission denied
sem_wait: Permission denied
sem_post: Permission denied

Any ideas?

Thanks




From flaxeater at gmail.com  Mon Nov 15 12:02:39 2004
From: flaxeater at gmail.com (Chad Crabtree)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 09:02:39 -0800
Subject: Tkinter and Graphics
References: <10pf6ersh138jbe@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <58494099.0411150902.4d313b94@posting.google.com>

Andrew <nobody at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<10pf6ersh138jbe at corp.supernews.com>...
> Hi I was wondering if there is anyway in Tkinter to create GUIs using 
> Graphics, like windows media player or other tools like that
> 
> basically so the interface wouldn't be your standard interface
> 
> any ideas, links to tutorials, or examples
> 
> is appreciated
> 
> Cheers
Check out wxPython ShapedWindow in the DEMO


From caleb1 at telkomsa.net  Tue Nov 16 23:08:00 2004
From: caleb1 at telkomsa.net (Caleb Hattingh)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 23:08:00 -0500
Subject: Pictograms and Python
References: <81a41dd.0411160125.1aa4c7c1@posting.google.com>
	<cncrmi$avo$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <opshlcfmyp1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>

Actually there at at least two valid uses for this kind of thing:
1. Digitising hard-copy legacy documents (digitise as in text-editable,  
not straight scans)
2. Extract data from graphs in scientific publications for the purposes of  
numerical comparison with your own work (one does this anyway, but  
normally by hand), and you normally want the axis labels (text) as well  
for preserving information about units of measure.

Of course, these only matter if the number of documents is large.  I don't  
know what is the likelihood that the OP wanted the help for nefarious  
purposes, but I found it presumptuous of you to assume so just off-the-bat  
as you did.  I would feel rather insulted had I been the OP. I'm sure you  
can understand.

Keep well
Caleb


On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:26:55 +0100, Diez B. Roggisch <deetsNOSPAM at web.de>  
wrote:


> As these protections are there for a good reason and I personally loathe
> spam, I hope you neither succeed nor get help from this community.
>
> In the (I believe unlikely) case of your plans to automate access to that
> site are of good intentions, I'm sure you can make a deal with the people
> running that service so that you can access it through some RPC  
> mechanism.




From lashkariNO at SPAMworldviz.com  Tue Nov  9 13:23:31 2004
From: lashkariNO at SPAMworldviz.com (Farshid Lashkari)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 18:23:31 GMT
Subject: Problem flushing stderr in embedded python
References: <VoRjd.33$iY3.7@trnddc01>
	<aa1af1ad.0411082048.6432d122@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <DW7kd.2069$z_4.652@trnddc07>

I don't understand it from a C perspective either. I poked around the source
code for python and found where it is flushing the file. It is simply
calling fflush on the FILE handle. Also, I'm somewhat bewildered as to why
running the string "sys.stderr.flush()" is different than directly calling
the flush method of the stderr object. Oh well, I guess some things are
better left unknown.

"caroundw5h" <caroundw5h at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:aa1af1ad.0411082048.6432d122 at posting.google.com...
> "Farshid Lashkari" <lashkariNO at SPAMworldviz.com> wrote in message
news:<VoRjd.33$iY3.7 at trnddc01>...
> > Hi,
> >
> > My application has python embedded into it. I noticed that when I run
any
> > python code the output is buffered and doesn't get flushed until my
> > application exits. To fix this I simply flush sys.stdout and sys.stderr
> > every once in while by using the following code:
> >
> > //Get handle to python stdout file and flush it
> > PyObject *pyStdout = PySys_GetObject("stdout");
> > if(pyStdout && PyFile_Check(pyStdout)) {
> >     PyObject *result = PyObject_CallMethod(pyStdout,"flush",NULL);
> >     Py_XDECREF(result);
> > }
> >
> > //Get handle to python stderr file and flush it
> > PyObject *pyStderr = PySys_GetObject("stderr");
> > if(pyStderr && PyFile_Check(pyStderr)) {
> >     PyObject *result = PyObject_CallMethod(pyStderr,"flush",NULL);
> >     Py_XDECREF(result);
> > }
> >
> > This works for stdout but not for stderr. In order to flush stderr I
have to
> > do:
> >
> > PyRun_SimpleString("sys.stderr.flush()");
> >
> > Does anybody know why my first method doesn't work with stderr? I
checked
> > and PyObject_CallMethod is being called for both objects and no errors
are
> > occuring. The solution I have is acceptable, but I would still like to
know
> > why my first method didn't work.
> >
> > BTW, I'm running python 2.3 on Windows XP
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Farshid
> I'm sorry to notice that you haven't received any responses back to
> your questions even though you have found a workaround. I've noticed
> this trend quite a lot in the python community and having learned
> python first and now C(in order to understand python better) I'm
> frankly disspapointed. I believe python and C are a wonderful marriage
> but I suppose because many ppl come to python as their intro language
> they info on extending and embedding is limited. I myself haven't
> started using the python api but will soon, I hope I for one will be
> someone who  will be able to provide an answer next time.
>
> Good luck.
>
> BTW: from a C perspective. I don't understand your problem though.
> stdout and stderr are the normal output device for your system -
> usally your screen. I don't see why you should have to call one via
> python sys module.
> Perhaps because one doesn't normally flush(stderr) explicity but
> flush(stdout).
>
> interested to know as well.




From dedded at verizon.net  Thu Nov 18 22:38:48 2004
From: dedded at verizon.net (dkcpub)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 03:38:48 GMT
Subject: Identifying exceptions that can be raised
Message-ID: <cVdnd.7986$tS4.4873@trndny09>

I'm very new to Python, but I couldn't find anything in the docs or faq 
about this.  And I fished around in the IDLE menus but didn't see anything.

Is there a tool that can determine all the exceptions that can be raised 
in a Python function, or in any of the functions it calls, etc.?

/Dan


From lbates at syscononline.com  Mon Nov  8 15:23:56 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 14:23:56 -0600
Subject: Determining combination of bits
In-Reply-To: <x3Qjd.121786$hj.41260@fed1read07>
References: <x3Qjd.121786$hj.41260@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <x4qdnSo59KhGSBLcRVn-1w@comcast.com>

You didn't say anything about how large the
numbers might get.  If they stay small (e.g. <thousands)
you could just look them up directly from a dictionary.
If they can get arbitrarily large you must use bit
shifing and boolean & (and).

Sounds a lot like a homework assignment, but I'll
give you some "hints".

1) Use bit shifting operator (>>) and boolean &
    operator to isolate each bit in the integer.

2) It will be either zero or one.  Build up a
    list of these which will represent the power
    of two that each one bit represents.

Larry Bates

Sean Berry wrote:
> Say I have a dictionary like the following
> 
> {1:'one',2:'two',4:'three',8:'four',16:'five', etc...}
> 
> and I am given some numbers, say 22, 25, and 9.  I want to determine the 
> keys, powers of 2, that comprise the number.
> 
> Ex.  22 = 16+4+2
>        25 = 16+8+1
>        9   = 8+1
> ...etc...
> 
> How do I get these keys? 
> 
> 


From someone at microsoft.com  Sat Nov 27 17:53:53 2004
From: someone at microsoft.com (Jive)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 22:53:53 GMT
Subject: 1 file, multiple threads
References: <41a7000c$0$16489$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<Ws7qd.5822720$6p.937014@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <4A7qd.5229992$ic1.488016@news.easynews.com>

Sorry about the line wraps. I've gone over to the dark side and Outlook
Express. Still haven't quite got the hang of it.

Sorry about the HTML.  Ditto.




From mwm at mired.org  Sat Nov 13 00:37:17 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 23:37:17 -0600
Subject: permuting letters and fairy tales
References: <67lld8kr76.fsf@aster.homelinux.net>
	<60dfb6f6.0411121732.2e0ac82c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <x78y96nwc2.fsf@guru.mired.org>

imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks) writes:

> Johannes Nix <Johannes.Nix at gmx.net> wrote in message news:<67lld8kr76.fsf at aster.homelinux.net>...
> My thought is that, the brain doesn't read the word as a whole as they
> claim, but neither does it pay too much attention to the _exact_
> ordering.  So you could scramble the letters a little, and it will
> still be recognizable; but scramble them a lot, and you will have
> trouble.

"Word shape" used to be a popular theory on word recognition. That
would explain why mixing up the interior letters sometimes works and
sometimes doesn't. But that theory has fallen out of favor in recent
years.

          <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From news at svha.demon.co.uk  Sat Nov 20 06:02:22 2004
From: news at svha.demon.co.uk (Svha)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 11:02:22 +0000
Subject: Telnetlib & Term Types
References: <pan.2004.11.19.20.22.27.435671@svha.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.20.11.02.21.884637@svha.demon.co.uk>

My bad - omitted the set_debuglevel() output from the above post ...
Hey it was a Friday afternoon ;)

>>> tn = telnetlib.Telnet(xxx.xxx.org)
>>> tn.set_debuglevel(10)
>>> tn.mt_interact()
Telnet(xxx.xxx.org,23): recv "\xff\xfd\x18\xff\xfd \xff\xfd#\xff\xfd'"
Telnet(xxx.xxx.org,23): IAC DO 24
Telnet(xxx.xxx.org,23): IAC DO 32
Telnet(xxx.xxx.org,23): IAC DO 35
Telnet(xxx.xxx.org,23): IAC DO 39
Telnet(xxx.xxx.org,23): recv '\xff\xfb\x03\xff\xfd\x01\xff\xfd\x1f\xff\xfb\
x05\xff\xfd!'
Telnet(xxx.xxx.org,23): IAC WILL 3
Telnet(xxx.xxx.org,23): IAC DO 1
Telnet(xxx.xxx.org,23): IAC DO 31
Telnet(xxx.xxx.org,23): IAC WILL 5
Telnet(xxx.xxx.org,23): IAC DO 33
Telnet(xxx.xxx.org,23): recv '\xff\xfb\x03'
Telnet(xxx.xxx.org,23): IAC WILL 3
Telnet(xxx.xxx.org,23): recv '\xff\xfb\x01'
Telnet(xxx.xxx.org,23): IAC WILL 1
Telnet(xxx.xxx.org,23): recv 'Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 x.x.org\r\nError opening'
Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 xxx.xxx.org
Error openingTelnet(xxx.xxx.org,23): recv ' terminal: network.\r\n'
 terminal: network.

Svha


On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:22:27 +0000, Svha wrote:

> Greetings
> 
> I'd like to do some tweaks on a telnet session as I have no control over
> the server side what so ever.
> 
> However I cannot correctly negotiate a telnet connection to the server.
> 
> I've gone back to basics on the code for simplicity here;
> 
> Linux 2.6 : Python 2.3.4
> Telnetlib Module - http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.4/lib/module-telnetlib.html
> 
> import sys, telnetlib
> tn = telnetlib.Telnet("xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx")
> tn.mt_interact()
> 
> All goes well if I point this code to telnet to 127.0.0.1 (Login etc)
> 
> However if I point the code to telnet to the server I get;
> Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 xxx.xxx.org
> Error opening terminal: network.
> Note - telnet from the console to this address works fine.
> 
> I have limited knowledge of telnet/terminals however I am beginning to
> think that the "server" is trying to negotiate a terminal type
> (vt100/vt220 I think) and telnetlib responds incorrectly/not at all.
> 
> Any thoughts would be much appreciated / is there a more suitable library
> than telnetlib for my purpose?
> 
> Many thanks ..... Svha



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Nov 15 20:50:12 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:50:12 -0800
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <1gnbf8z.mirt8m687hvbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.6390.1100553070.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gnbf8z.mirt8m687hvbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041115174342.F942.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:
> 
> Jim Fulton <jim at zope.com> wrote:
> 
> > >   Guido has repeatedly stated that a future version of Python will
> include static type support.  The Zope project has driven numerous past
> changes to Python.  What's funny about this?
> > 
> > For the record, I'm against static typing for Python, although,
> > if Guido decides he wants it, I have an open mind. :)
> 
> Glad to hear that.  As for me, I'd love it if function arguments, only,
> could bear an 'as' clause (making 'as' a keyword is long overdue):
> 
> def x(y as foo, z as bar):
>     <body of x>
> 
> translating into:
> 
> def x(y, z):
>     y = adapt(y, foo)
>     z = adapt(z, bar):
>     <body of x>
> 
> where builtin 'adapt' does protocol adaptation.  On the other hand, if
> the semantics of those 'as' clauses were something like:
> 
> def x(y, z):
>     if type(y) is not foo: raise TypeError, 'y must be foo'
>     if type(z) is not bar: raise TypeError, 'z must be bar'
>     <body of x>
> 
> then that's the day I move to Ruby, or any other language that remained
> halfway sensible (if any).
> 
> In other words, if the 'as' clause (or whatever absurd syntax ends up
> being adopted in its place -- judging on recent performance, probably a
> two-arguments version of splat, or a nice << to complement the just as
> nice 'print>>bah,humbug' syntax -- good thing I don't really care about
> syntax sugar;-) ends up being a way to ease *type-checking*, then, well,
> I'll evaluate that as being on a par with easing alcohol abuse.  What
> the syntax supports, people will do more of, and we already know that
> type-checking, like alcohol abuse, is a _very_ popular although
> self-destructive practice.
> 
> Protocol adaptation is the polar opposite from type checking.  I'd see
> syntax that supports adaptation as being on a par with easing things
> that are good for you, as well as pleasant, and yet are not widely
> practiced -- yoga, aerobics, many other forms of exercise, healthy
> nutrition -- the language gently encouraging you to do the right thing.

Decorators to the rescue?

def d_adapt(t):
    def f(a):
        return adapt(a, t)
    return f

def d_adaptors(*adaptors):
    #some work necessary to make kwargs work
    def f(fcn):
        def f(*args):
            return fcn(*[i(j) for i,j in zip(adaptors, args)])
        return f
    return f

@d_adaptors(d_adapt(foo), d_adapt(bar))
def x(y, z):
    <body of x>


 - Josiah



From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Fri Nov 12 12:47:09 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:47:09 +0100
Subject: escape sequences in list comprehensions
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0411120517.488d16ca@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0411120517.488d16ca@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4194f6df$0$15245$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

kartik wrote:
> Escape sequences don't seem to work in strings within list comprehensions:
> 
>>>>print ['%s\n' %i for i in [1,2,3]]
> 
> ['1\n', '2\n', '3\n']
> 
> What am I missing?

Other have answered to this question.

Just try this instead :
   print "\n".join(["%d" % i for i in [1,2,3]])

> Thank you.
HTH



From littlejohn.75 at noos.fr  Tue Nov  9 18:31:40 2004
From: littlejohn.75 at noos.fr (F. Petitjean)
Date: 09 Nov 2004 23:31:40 GMT
Subject: Problems with user input
References: <pan.2004.11.09.22.54.37.120023@web.de>
Message-ID: <4191535c$0$9261$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 23:54:37 Florian Wilhelm <Florian.Wilhelm at web.de> wrote:
> I have some easy questions, but I cant figure them out:
> 
> I want to read exactly one char from stdin, there should
> be no need to hit enter.
> 
> import sys
> 
> print "Input: (y/N) ",
> input = sys.stdin.read(1)
> print "Your input:", input
> 
> This code has following problems:
> 1) I need to hit enter, although I read only one char?!?
sys.stdin is : buffered and line oriented.
What is your operating system ? Under unix sys.stdin (and C stdin
stream) are managed by a driver which expect you can somewhat modify
the line you want to send to the system. (POSIX normalized)
  If you want a fine control, you can use curses (Unix) or build your
  solution based on getchar (or is it getch() ?) on windows/dos.
> 2) The complete output is:
> 
> Input: (y/N) y
>  Your input: y
> 
> Why does the whitespace char appear in front of "Your input..."?
??
> I guess it has something to do with not causing a linebreak
> after "Input: (y/N) ", but I want no linebreak...
> 
> Any suggestions?
Tell us more about what you want to do.
> 
> Regards,
> Florian
> 


From vincent.delft at skynet.be  Sat Nov 27 10:28:05 2004
From: vincent.delft at skynet.be (vincent delft)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:28:05 +0100
Subject: new with zope: merge two zexp
Message-ID: <41a89c62$0$13464$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

Is there a way to merge 2 zexp developed by 2 different developers on two
different zope server?

Does playing with the "export to xml" in cvs is a valid solution ?

Thanks



From m.elston at advantest-ard.com  Mon Nov  1 12:00:02 2004
From: m.elston at advantest-ard.com (Mark Elston)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 17:00:02 -0000
Subject: Tix ScrolledTList
Message-ID: <Xns95945B8EB2339melstonadvantestardc@216.168.3.44>

I have been trying to make use of the Tix documentation in configuring
a ScrolledTList to use a specific number of columns and/or orientation.
Unfortunately when I pass 'orientation="xxx"' or 'columns=y' to
either the constructor or configure method of the ScrolledTList
object (or to the configure method of the tlist member) I get
'unknown option "-orientation"' or 'unknown option "-columns"'
errors.

The Tix documentation indicates this is the way to make this 
happen.  What have I been doing wrong?

This is using ActiveState Python 2.3.2.

Mark


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Thu Nov 18 21:55:55 2004
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:55:55 -0500
Subject: Wrapping a C library in Python
In-Reply-To: <roy-99F088.20103518112004@reader1.panix.com>
References: <roy-99F088.20103518112004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20041119025555.GA4248@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Roy Smith]
> I've got a C library with about 50 calls in it that I want to wrap in 
> Python.  I know I could use some tool like SWIG, but that will give me a 
> too-literal translation; I want to make some modifications along the way 
> to make the interface more Pythonic.

I used Pyrex with both pleasure and success for wrapping C libraries
while giving the API a more Pythonic flavour.  I found Pyrex to be a
wonderful tool for easily doing such things.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://pinard.progiciels-bpi.ca


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Nov  4 12:15:43 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 18:15:43 +0100
Subject: Summary: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<2uqvd6F2dn4seU1@uni-berlin.de>	<slrncoi5t8.c7g.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5875.1099517778.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10oim483n2b7r7f@corp.supernews.com>
	<cmd73m$k1o$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5917.1099587748.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cmdo3s$788$04$2@news.t-online.com>

> I wonder what people think about Ruby, which, I understand, does allow you
> to
> modify builtins.  Can anyone tell me if you could make Ruby strings do the
> horrible coercion that PHP strings do?

I've no idea of how well ruby developers deal with the possibility to
redefine their builtins - but it sure scares the hell out of _me_, so I'm
glad the BDFL chose not to allow us to shoot large holes into various
bodyparts by making them unmodifiable...

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Fri Nov 19 07:13:42 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 07:13:42 -0500
Subject: Trivial plugin framework?
In-Reply-To: <du7pt2ace26.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
References: <du7pt2ace26.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <419DE376.6040304@bellsouth.net>

Ville Vainio wrote:

>Anyone know any good, low-fat, Open Source (BSD or better) trivial
>plugin framework that would allow me to put a bunch of .py-files in a
>directory, with contents like:
>
># /tmp/py/mymod.py
>
>class C:
>  pass
>
>class CFact:
>  pass
>
>__plugindict__ = {
>  'somefactory' : CFact
>}
>
>
>And then do
>
>import plugin
>
># sees that implementation repository doesn't exist, so creates one by
># looking at all the modules. Having seen that 'somefactory' is in
># mymod.py it only execs that.
>
>fact = plugin.get("/tmp/py", 'somefactory')
>
>obj = fact()
>
>?
>
>It seems easy enough to do, in fact I'm implementing one as I speak
>(well, not physically possible but anyway ;-), but I figured there has
>to be something that fits the bell better than my would-be
>implementation.
>
>  
>
It's been a while since I messed with it, but Retic 
(http://retic.sourceforge.net/ - a Jython EAI Server) has something like 
that.  Retic has the need for several different types of plugins (pipes, 
sources, sinks, etc), so it has several plugin directories.  You may not 
need this.  Here's the source for objectFactory.py (in the Retic project):


import sys, os

sys.path.append('pipes')
sys.path.append('sources')
sys.path.append('sinks')
sys.path.append('preprocessors')
sys.path.append('postprocessors')

srcList = os.listdir('sources')
pipeList = os.listdir('pipes')
sinkList = os.listdir('sinks')
preprocList = os.listdir('preprocessors')
postprocList = os.listdir('postprocessors')

sources = []
pipes = []
sinks = []
preprocessors = []
postprocessors = []
srcDict = {}
pipeDict = {}
sinkDict = {}
preprocessorDict = {}
postprocessorDict = {}

for src in srcList:
    if src[-3:].lower() == '.py':
        srcDict[src[:-3]] = __import__(src[:-3],globals(),locals())

for pipe in pipeList:
    if pipe[-3:].lower() == '.py':
        pipeDict[pipe[:-3]] = __import__(pipe[:-3],globals(),locals())


for sink in sinkList:
    if sink[-3:].lower() == '.py':
        sinkDict[sink[:-3]] = __import__(sink[:-3],globals(),locals())

for preproc in preprocList:
    if preproc[-3:].lower() == '.py':
        preprocessorDict[preproc[:-3]] = 
__import__(preproc[:-3],globals(),locals())

for postproc in postprocList:
    if postproc[-3:].lower() == '.py':
        postprocessorDict[postproc[:-3]] = 
__import__(postproc[:-3],globals(),locals())

#import fileSource, toXMLPipe, fileSink, ftpSource, HTTPSource, ftpSink, 
XSLTPipe, SQLSource
#import SMTPSink, SQLSink, XPath, XMLToFlatPipe, SQLTreeSource, 
SQLTreeSourcePlus
#import shellSink, XindiceSink, xmlBlasterSink, xmlBlasterSource, 
JMSSource, JMSSink

class Factory:

    def createObject(self, kind, args, logger):

        #=========================================================#
        #                       SOURCES
        #=========================================================#
        if kind == 'source':
            object = srcDict[args['type']].source(args, logger)
        #=========================================================#
        #                       PIPES
        #=========================================================#
        elif kind == 'pipe':
            object = pipeDict[args['type']].pipe(args, logger)
        #=========================================================#
        #                       SINKS
        #=========================================================#
        elif kind == 'sink':
            object = sinkDict[args['type']].sink(args, logger)
        #=========================================================#
        #                       PREPROCESSORS
        #=========================================================#
        elif kind == 'preproc':
            object = preprocessorDict[args['type']].preprocessor(args, 
logger)
        #=========================================================#
        #                       POSTPROCESSORS
        #=========================================================#
        elif kind == 'postproc':
            object = postprocessorDict[args['type']].postprocessor(args, 
logger)

        return object


If there is a problem with this approach, it is that the directories of 
files are evaulated at import time of this module.  So, once you import 
it, if you drop a new file in the directory, you have to do a 
reload(objectFactory) or you have to restart your process.  But, it 
should not be a huge problem to make that dynamic - maybe cache the file 
list and whenever a createObject is called, check the plugin directories 
and see if anything has changed and if so, update the particular plugin 
type - or something like that.  But, I do remember this working really 
well and being a useable plugin approach and a really cool project IMHO, 
but YMMV.


Jeremy Jones

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From valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk  Fri Nov 19 05:22:45 2004
From: valkyrie at cuhk.edu.hk (Valkyrie)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:22:45 +0800
Subject: How to sort a list of tuples
Message-ID: <1100859769.700610@eng-ser6>

I have a list of tuples, and one of the fields in the tuple is score. So how can
I sort the list by the score?

Thanks in advance


From noway at sorry.com  Wed Nov 24 04:55:51 2004
From: noway at sorry.com (Giovanni Bajo)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:55:51 GMT
Subject: zip module password
References: <cnt99a$n2n$2@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
	<cntjm6$qc2$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <HUYod.48278$Ni.1673449@twister1.libero.it>

Peter Hansen wrote:

>> Is there a method for add a password to a file created by zip module?
>
> This link
>
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=305470&aid=698833&group_id=5470
> suggests that there is no such support in the standard zipfile module
> yet, but that a patch has been available for some time (but has
> not yet been accepted).


"has not yet been *commented*" or even looked at would be more appropriate. In
fact, it is no wonder that it is my sole contribution to Python -- I found the
lack of responsiveness so depressing.
-- 
Giovanni Bajo




From jerf at jerf.org  Thu Nov 18 05:51:00 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 05:51:00 -0500
Subject: Are multiple return values really harmful? (Re: determining the
	number of output arguments)
References: <mailman.6401.1100577163.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.11.40.05.816233@jerf.org>
	<mailman.6410.1100591513.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.11.16.22.02.31.589093@jerf.org>
	<30001hF2ptnqcU1@uni-berlin.de> <419bbf2a.319309032@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.18.10.50.56.752619@jerf.org>

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:58:56 +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:49:03 +1300, Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
> 
>>Jeremy Bowers wrote:
>>> Generally, returning a tuple is either a sign that your return value
>>> should be wrapped up in a class, or the function is doing too much.
>>
> ISTM that a tuple _is_ a class that wraps content for return as a _single value_,
> just like a custom container class instance. What's the problem? The fact that you
> can write

Generally, generally, generally, I say again, generally.

You take every example mentioned to date, which is largely:

* OS code trying to be as thin as possible (stat, socket)
* math-type code where the tuple really is the class, as you suggest
* more-or-less contrived one- or two-liner code

and you've still got way, way, way less than 1% of the code of the vast
majority of programs. 

Like any other code smell, there are times to use it. But I say it's a
*smell*, and those of you implicitly reading that to mean "Returning
tuples is *never* a good idea" are doing me a disservice; please go look
up "code smell" and the word "generally". 

If you use it every once in a while where it is the right solution, great.
I do too. If you're using it every other function in a module, and it
isn't a thin wrapper around some other library, you've got a code smell.
(It's probably a class or two trying to get out.) You've got a *big* code
smell if you are unpacking those return values many times, because now
you've hard coded the size of the tuple into the code in many places. 

Named tuples eliminate the latter, and make the former weaker. But I
wouldn't add named tuples because of this use case, I'd add them because
we could use immutable dictionaries, and this just happens to come along
for the ride (as long as you aren't required to fully consume the tuple on
the left side, otherwise the smell remains).




From PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com  Tue Nov  2 10:19:49 2004
From: PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com (Marco Aschwanden)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 16:19:49 +0100
Subject: Test a Python function within Python without importing
References: <mailman.5808.1099406409.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm87q1$3nn$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<opsgufd3db35jo5o@news.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <opsgufjbo135jo5o@news.gmane.org>

> On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 16:06:42 +0100, Diez B. Roggisch 
> <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote:
>
>> use exec on the compiled object - the details are in the docs.
>
> I did it... but exec() does not return a value - or does it?

Oops... it sets global vars... I didn't think of that! Thanks,
Marco




From maxm at mxm.dk  Mon Nov 15 01:56:07 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:56:07 +0100
Subject: Zope 3.0, and why I won't use it
In-Reply-To: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
References: <cb035744.0411141109.5085ca0e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <419852cd$0$262$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Will Stuyvesant wrote:

> And instead of working on the engine they should have put more work
> into examples.  Simple tutorials.  Downloadable executables for
> Windows that you can click and install.

The gripe about Zope has allways been that it was too difficult for 
developers.

The Zope developers had a pretty good idea as to why. So they developed 
a new version of Zope that changed that. They have done a pretty fin job 
too.


> But most of all simple and
> good examples: webapplications like
> - a wiki in zope
> - a forum in zope, with agenda and calendar
> - a game like http://216.199.69.100/war/ in zope

You mean completely unlike:
http://svn.zope.org/book/trunk/messageboard/


> They have a nice free webhosting thing for zope, but to expect new
> users to do everything from scratch...
> The "examples" I found were very disappointing.

Have you looked at Plone at all?

-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From rstephens at vectron.com  Mon Nov 22 20:20:36 2004
From: rstephens at vectron.com (Ron Stephens)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 17:20:36 -0800
Subject: pyKDE tutorial
References: <cnsptb$h96$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <a5415304.0411221720.28ef9e21@posting.google.com>

Sebastian Rahlf <rahlf at informatik.uni-bonn.de> wrote in message news:<cnsptb$h96$1 at f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>...
> Hi!
> Does anyone know a good tutorial for pyKDE?
> Seb.

The only one I know of is
http://www.xs4all.nl/~bsarempt/python/tutorial.html which the author
Boudewijn Rempt sys is out of date but kept up for sentimental
reasons; however, he also wrote a whole book on the subject, GUI
Programming with Python, which really is a book about PyQt  and  also,
I believe, a commercial IDE and GUI builder for pyQt called
BlackAdder.

Ron Stephens, http://www.awaretek.com/tutorials.html


From onurb at xiludom.gro  Sun Nov 28 13:45:08 2004
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 19:45:08 +0100
Subject: The use of :
In-Reply-To: <zyUpd.6$d74.2@read3.inet.fi>
References: <89cc6e1f.0411251858.40b6bbc7@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.11.26.08.33.40.219098@autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>
	<89cc6e1f.0411260953.4b6b98e7@posting.google.com>
	<zyUpd.6$d74.2@read3.inet.fi>
Message-ID: <41aa1abb$0$25542$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Timo Virkkala a ?crit :
> Chang LI wrote:
> 
>> Paul Robson <autismuk at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in 
>> message 
>> news:<pan.2004.11.26.08.33.40.219098 at autismuk.muralichucks.freeserve.co.uk>... 
>>
>> So the : is similar to "begin" 
> 
> 
> Correct

Not correct. You need both the ':' and the extra level of indentation on 
next line, ie:

Python 2.3.3 (#2, Feb 17 2004, 11:45:40)
 >>> while True:
... print "aha"
   File "<stdin>", line 2
     print "aha"
         ^
IndentationError: expected an indented block
 >>>


>> and the last space line is similar to "end", right?
> 
> 
> Nope. You don't need a space line (you mean an empty line by that, 
> right?), you can just outdent one level and continue without any empty 
> lines (although in the interactive interpreter you need the empty line 
> to end the block on the first indentation level). So you could do:
> 
> i = 5
> while i > 0:
>     print i
>         i = i-1
> print "That's it"

<meta> Is this a pb when typing of copying ? It's just plain wonrg code 
anyway :
 >>> while i > 0:
...     print i
...             i -= 1
   File "<stdin>", line 3
     i = i-1
     ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
 >>> while i > 0:
...     print i
...     i -= 1
...
5
4
3
2
1
 >>>

The level of indentation has to be the same within a block, and it has 
to be *1* (*one*) extra-or-less level of indentation than the previous 
block.

<please-someone-correct-me-if-i-am-wrong>
In fact, from a purely technical POV, the ':' could have been omitted 
from the Python syntax, since indentation does the whole job of defining 
blocks. It's only here for readability AFAIK.
</please-someone-correct-me-if-i-am-wrong>

Bruno


From kent3737 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 14 16:16:32 2004
From: kent3737 at yahoo.com (Kent Johnson)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 16:16:32 -0500
Subject: Encoding confusion, please help
In-Reply-To: <4197c03f$0$12683$39db0f71@news.song.fi>
References: <41978cdd$0$799$39db0f71@news.song.fi>
	<4197a8bb$0$151$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<4197c03f$0$12683$39db0f71@news.song.fi>
Message-ID: <4197ca1b$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>

Pekka Niiranen wrote:
> Can I find out the terminal encoding somehow?

On Windows:

D:\>help chcp
Displays or sets the active code page number.

CHCP [nnn]

   nnn   Specifies a code page number.

Type CHCP without a parameter to display the active code page number.

D:\>chcp
Active code page: 437

Kent


From maneeshsingh82 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 10 12:47:31 2004
From: maneeshsingh82 at gmail.com (maneeshsingh82 at gmail.com)
Date: 10 Nov 2004 09:47:31 -0800
Subject: Problem with Python module
Message-ID: <1100108851.526778.282530@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I'm trying to connect to a Microsoft SQL Server 2000 database through a
Fedora Core 2 machine, using python 2.3.

I have tried using the mxODBC package from eGenix.

The code is as follows:

--------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/python2.3

import mx.ODBC.iODBC

db = mx.ODBC.iODBC.DriverConnect('DSN=database;UID=user;PWD=passwd')
c = db.cursor()
c.execute('select count(*) from test')
c.fetchone()

c.tables(None,None,None,None)

mx.ODBC.print_resultset(c)
c.close()
db.close()
--------------------------------


This is the output that I get:

--------------------------------
[root at ps0778 cgi-bin]# python db5.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "db5.py", line 4, in ?
import mx.ODBC.iODBC
File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/mx/ODBC/iODBC/__init__.py",
line 8, in ?
from mxODBC import *
ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/mx/ODBC/iODBC/mxODBC.so:
undefined symbol: SQLSetConfigMode
[root at ps0778 cgi-bin]#
--------------------------------


Could anyone tell me what could be the problem here?

I have installed eGenix's mxODBC from source, and if this is done
through RPM, then the error that we get is

ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/mx/ODBC/iODBC/mxODBC.so:
undefined symbol: PyUnicodeUCS2_AsEncodedString
Thanks!


Maneesh Singh.



From grumman at example.com  Fri Nov  5 13:15:03 2004
From: grumman at example.com (Grumman)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 13:15:03 -0500
Subject: win 2003 server
In-Reply-To: <cmef57$7si$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <cmef57$7si$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <10ongpmf0u8l56a@corp.supernews.com>

Brad Tilley wrote:
> Does Python run on Windows Server 2003?
> 
> http://www.python.org/download/download_windows.html only lists the 
> following:
> 
> Python for Windows 95, 98, NT, 2000, ME, XP

I certainly hope so, I've got several critical windows services, written 
in python, running on it for many months now. :)



From changli_to at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 25 12:51:23 2004
From: changli_to at hotmail.com (Chang LI)
Date: 25 Nov 2004 09:51:23 -0800
Subject: Use Python library from C++
References: <89cc6e1f.0411241939.61a19596@posting.google.com>
	<co3qur$qdl$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <89cc6e1f.0411250951.3bc18392@posting.google.com>

Robert Kern <rkern at ucsd.edu> wrote in message news:<co3qur$qdl$1 at news1.ucsd.edu>...
> 
> Try Elmer.
> 
> http://elmer.sf.net

Looks like a perfect match between Python and C++.
Great thanks!

Chang


From littlejohn.75 at noos.fr  Mon Nov 22 08:20:20 2004
From: littlejohn.75 at noos.fr (F. Petitjean)
Date: 22 Nov 2004 13:20:20 GMT
Subject: [Beginner] delete items of [] also from memory
References: <cns50t$5ip$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<41a1a1da$0$8190$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<cnsgm1$u3f$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <41a1e794$0$29887$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:56:26 +0100, Birgit Rahm <br_y at yahoo.de> wrote:
>>  But...  And if you try ?
>>
> I tryed A = [].
> And  I think thats why my RAM is filling up. But I dont know if this is the
> problem. So I asked.
> Is del A[0:] the better or an equal solution?
> Birgit
> 
What about   A[:] = None  ?

PS  I have not seen the parent message, so take this advice with a handful
of salt.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov 22 08:41:46 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:41:46 -0500
Subject: The Microsoft Platform Ahead by David Platt;
 thoughts about Python and Zope
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6693.1101126291.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <AQ5od.24563$6q2.12650@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
	<mailman.6693.1101126291.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b2mod.1919$QR.218@lakeread01>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

> On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:16:48 GMT, John Benson
> <jsbenson at bensonsystems.com> wrote:
> 
>>Hi, I've been reading the above-titled book and it looks like some major
>>Python and Zope features have been cherry-picked for pushing down into .NET,
>>like application memory management (Python interpreter), and prefabricated
>>website user management (Zope).
> 
> 
> <irony>
> I would be concerned if Microsoft was pushing for patents on things
> previously implemented by Python or Zope.
> </irony>
> 
>>Will the open-source web service frameworks suffer the same fate as the
>>Netscape browser?
> 
> 
> Microsoft has show with the IE 6 fiasco that they have no long-term
> commitment. As soon as they think that they have obliterated
> competition they stop developing. And their customers are learning it
> too. For many companies older versions, such as NT4 and Win98 are
> still quite usable... but as MS discontinues support, it *forces* them
> to upgrade. Worse: there are applications written for older frameworks
> that simply will not be supported in the long term. It's why so many
> people are concerned about XForms, Avalon and stuff -- they have
> bought MS technology previously, and they will have to buy it again,
> with all the upgrade cost, just to keep working. Not a good way to run
> a business.
>  
Microsoft's financial results prove that it's actually an excellent way 
to do business, as long as all you are interested in is financial 
results. When you start to consider the suboptimal economic nature of 
such a methodology, however, the capitalists start hurling around words 
like "socialism" which they use in a perjorative sense without real 
understanding ;-).

The point is that Microsoft appear to feel threatened by open source 
because to work in that arena would remove the vital element of control. 
They aren't interested in the greatest good for the greatest number, 
they are interested in the greatest good for Microsoft stockholders.
> 
>>The most likely scenario I see is that Python will remain important as a
>>standalone language and one of the Microsoft CLR (Common Language Runtime)
>>language alternatives (like VB.NET and C#) but that great frameworks (like
>>Zope and Twisted) will be crowded out as Microsoft appropriates and
>>repackages their functionality. Comments?
> 
> 
> Perhaps I'm a little paranoid, but I am afraid that the CLR version of
> Python may lead to a split of sorts in the long term. Jython is always
> a little behind, but as far as I know, it still follows C Python
> steps. The CLR is a *big* library, and it's backed by Microsoft, which
> makes it quite attractive for a number of developers. I'm afraid that
> its direct use may lead to a distinct 'dialect' of sorts (due to the
> use of the CLR) than C Python with the standard Python library. The
> language is the same, but the programs would hardly be portable (I
> don't place my bets on Mono either). But again, I may be just paranoid
> :-)
> 
I think you probably are being a little paranoid (though even the 
paranoid can have enemies). As long as the CLR remains an API rather 
than getting built into the language Python will be just fine. Take Mark 
Hammond's win32all extensions as an example of what might happen.

I've written Windows services, and used Windows-specific functionality, 
to deliver what customers asked me for. The solutions are still Python, 
despite the fact that they aren't portable to any other platforms than 
Windows.

The day *I'll* start complaining is the day Python-from-Microsoft starts 
to sprout new keywords and syntax features that don't exist in other 
implementations. Personally I have enough faith in Jim Hugunin's 
integrity to be pretty sure he'd resist such trends, though perhaps not 
enough faith in Microsoft as a whole to be sure such changes wouldn't be 
railroaded through if there were some perceived corporate advantage.

Frankly, though, it will be a long time before Python is anything but a 
minority platform for Microsoft users, given the huge number of VB and 
C# programmers, not to mention the Java camp.

In the long term the only way to change Microsoft's behavior is to 
engage with them and have them perceive that their current technological 
isolationism is against the long-term interests of their shareholders. 
This will not be an easy dialog.

As far as using CLR functionality from Python goes, I'd hope that mono 
will allow us to do the same (sort of) things in other environments.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From mwm at mired.org  Thu Nov 18 14:46:28 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:46:28 -0600
Subject: Need function to test if EFFECTIVE UID has read-access to a
 file.
References: <9b96ed1.0411170915.2b88da0e@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.6498.1100715267.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<9b96ed1.0411180820.21447337@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <x7pt2bkkiz.fsf@guru.mired.org>

NutJob at gmx.net (Markus Kemp) writes:

> Hi Skip,
>
> Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.6498.1100715267.5135.python-list at python.org>...
>> try:
>>     f = open("somefile")
>> except IOError:
>>     print "file not readable"
>> 
>
> Ow, is that the only way? =( Because as I see it, open() is a
> relatively costly function compared to something like os.access()

Yeah. you can improve on this by using os.open. That way you won't
have the overhead of creating a Python file object.

However, both access and open will have to read status information
from the disk to do their job. The I/O involved should swamp any
difference in computation between the two.

Of course, the right thing to do is time them.

BTW, os.open should work on a directory.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From pwatson at redlinepy.com  Sat Nov 27 14:47:18 2004
From: pwatson at redlinepy.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:47:18 -0600
Subject: How do you execute external programs from Python?
References: <iGppd.2045$3N5.117@amstwist00> <e_1qd.2176$3N5.2001@amstwist00>
Message-ID: <30s3ubF2vpo3bU1@uni-berlin.de>

"Carl" <phleum_nospam at chello.se> wrote in message 
news:e_1qd.2176$3N5.2001 at amstwist00...
> Carl wrote:
>
> Thanks guys!
>
> It was an environmental problem. It works now; the only thing I still
> haven't solved is how to kill the spawned process after say an hour. Any
> clues?
>
> Carl

Have you investigated...?

os.spawn*()
os.P_NOWAIT
os.kill() 




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Nov 20 02:46:03 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:46:03 -0500
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <mailman.5272.1098381729.5135.python-list@python.org><1gm17og.ctwoqv17vkctxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<419EEEAA.D3C1046F@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cnmsnh$fsq$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Jive Dadson" <jdadson at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:419EEEAA.D3C1046F at yahoo.com...
> How about specialization?  I'm relatively new to Python.  I ask for
> information, not to be argumentative.
>
> If you have, for example, several data-types for matrices, how do you
> write code that will automatically find the right routine for quickly
> multiplying a vector by a diagonal matrix represented as a vector, and
> automatically call the right code for multiplying by a sparse matrix
> represented by some sparse coding, etc?

Specialization goes in special methods -- the ones named __xxx__ -- of 
which there are now 50-100.  For each pair of classes, at least one of the 
two must know how to do xxx on the other.  There is no way to get around 
the n square problem, but Python pushes it into individual operations so 
you only need one function that uses the operation.  So planning is 
required for a system of user-defined classed such as multiple matrix 
implementations.

For more, see the ref manual and the section on user classes.  Also check 
'special methods' in the index.

Terry J. Reedy





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov 12 14:55:00 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 14:55:00 -0500
Subject: Accessing an instance via its memory address (instance at ...)
References: <cn2fkq$k6u$2@ikaria.belnet.be>
Message-ID: <cn34ea$dac$1@sea.gmane.org>


<simon.alexandre at cetic.be> wrote in message 
news:cn2fkq$k6u$2 at ikaria.belnet.be...
> I have a list containing several instance address, for example:

I doubt that.

> [<JavaClass instance at 00BAC290>, <JavaClass instance at 00BB0D10>,
> <JavaClass instance at 00BA5230>]

This is how Python prints a list of instance objects.  If the list 
contained the integer ids, which would only happen if you explicitly 
created a list of ids (pretty useless, usually), it would print them as 
integers.  Kent's solution to your questions assumes that you indeed have 
objects and not addresses.

Terry J. Reedy





From mcfletch at rogers.com  Wed Nov 24 16:33:28 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:33:28 -0500
Subject: Python 2.4 and Visual C++ Express
In-Reply-To: <KO6pd.5049226$ic1.472572@news.easynews.com>
References: <XQfod.15475$3u6.726077@wagner.videotron.net>	<9APod.4998157$ic1.468025@news.easynews.com>	<30ji62F31ppn0U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<KO6pd.5049226$ic1.472572@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <41A4FE28.9070105@rogers.com>

Jive wrote:

>"Steve Menard" <menard.nospam.steve at gmail.nospamisaid.com> wrote in message
>news:30ji62F31ppn0U1 at uni-berlin.de...
>  
>
...

>Do you mean if I install 2.4, I will have to find VC++ 7.1 versions of all
>the extensions
>I may be using?  If so, that's still borderline horrible, but I guess
>Microsoft is the culprit. Annow
>for something completely the same.
>  
>
It has almost always been the case that you must download new extensions 
for a new major version of Python.  The difference now is that library 
developers can use the Free (as-in-beer) MSToolkit compiler to build 
7.1-compatible extensions, instead of needing to purchase MSVC++ 6.0.

It's not a particularly elegant process (lots of downloads and a few 
setup steps), but IMO it's a *good* thing to finally have no-cost option 
for providing extensions on Windows.

That said, I'm not sure this will help you with your embedded platform.  
Don't know if the Toolkit compiler will work with whatever Win32 
platform runs there, but for general desktops moving to MSVC 7.1 seems 
to be a win.  However, the Toolkit doesn't come with the ability AFAIK 
to build MSVC++ project files, so there will be some pain as developers 
become accustomed to exporting makefiles or the equivalent from the 
project files to support the Toolkit.  Still, marching in the right 
direction...

Just MHO,
Mike

________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From pythongnome at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 19 17:08:24 2004
From: pythongnome at hotmail.com (Lucas Raab)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:08:24 GMT
Subject: instant messenging
Message-ID: <s9und.4018$Qh3.1971@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>

Are there any instant messenging programs out there for use in a Python 
app?? I've heard of Jabber, but never looke into it.


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Tue Nov  2 08:16:23 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 08:16:23 -0500
Subject: extending file?
In-Reply-To: <f03f4fdf04110112265002c40e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f03f4fdf04110112265002c40e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <418788A7.6000505@bellsouth.net>

Chris Cioffi wrote:

>Hello all,
>
>Are there any docs or examples of extending the file type?  I work
>with EDI messages that are very like text files, just with a few
>quirks. ;-)  and I was wondering if I could strech and twist the built
>in file type to make things a bit faster and more full featured.
>
>Specifically I would need to alter the iterator and ideally the line terminitor.
>
>Chris
>  
>
I'm not going to answer your question, but I hope that doesn't stop 
someone else from chiming in with an answer as I would like an answer as 
well :-)  I noticed your recipe the other day posted in response to Greg 
Lindstrom regarding EDI Tools.  If the recipe that you posted is what 
you are using to parse your EDI messages, you could just change a couple 
of things in it rather than modifying "file" and realize a huge 
performance boost (although, it would be really cool to get readline to 
take a terminating character as an argument, and, therefore, return and 
EDI segment).  Here is a simple, stupid script that takes a filename and 
number as arguments.  It then reads that file <number> bytes at a time:


#!/usr/bin/env python

import sys
import os
import time

filename = sys.argv[1]
numbytes = int(sys.argv[2])
filesize = os.stat(filename)[6]

print "reading file %s (file is %s bytes long) %s bytes at a time" % 
(filename, filesize, numbytes)

start_time = time.time()
i = open(filename, 'r')
ch = "a"
while ch != "":
    ch = i.read(numbytes)
end_time = time.time()
print "read file in %s seconds" % (end_time - start_time)


Here are some results:

[jmjones at qatestrunner tmp]$ ./readit.py mono-list.mbox 1000
reading file mono-list.mbox (file is 88108265 bytes long) 1000 bytes at 
a time
read file in 1.12803697586 seconds
[jmjones at qatestrunner tmp]$ ./readit.py mono-list.mbox 100
reading file mono-list.mbox (file is 88108265 bytes long) 100 bytes at a 
time
read file in 5.3266479969 seconds
[jmjones at qatestrunner tmp]$ ./readit.py mono-list.mbox 10
reading file mono-list.mbox (file is 88108265 bytes long) 10 bytes at a time
read file in 48.9884879589 seconds
[jmjones at qatestrunner tmp]$ ./readit.py mono-list.mbox 1
reading file mono-list.mbox (file is 88108265 bytes long) 1 bytes at a time
read file in 470.724639893 seconds

I wrote an EDI parser at my last job and found that performance kinda 
sucked.  I ran it through a profiler and I can't remember where the 
exact bottleneck was, but from the results above, you can see the huge 
performance penalty for calling file.read() several (tens of) millions 
of times vs. several (tens of) thousands of times.  I found out that you 
take a small performance hit every time you make a function call - can't 
remember where I found that from, but I think I remember reading it 
somewhere.  Anyway, so I made the loop through the EDI file iterate 
fewer times by reading in a larger chunk of file (like 500 bytes or 
something like that) and seeing if the character I wanted was in it.  I 
wound up with this kludgy finite state machine, but I got a huge 
performance boost.  Consequently, I'm thinking of creating a new EDI 
parser from scratch using the finite state machine class (found in this 
chapter: http://gnosis.cx/TPiP/chap4.txt: look for "statemachine.py") in 
David Mertz's excellent book "Text Processing in Python" 
(http://gnosis.cx/TPiP/).  If I do write it, I'll open source it.

The performance tips I found were probably either at:
http://manatee.mojam.com/~skip/python/fastpython.html
by Skip Montanaro or here:
http://www.python.org/doc/essays/list2str.html
by Guido.

But, if you get "file" modified with a custom realine(), you will likely 
have overcome this problem anyway.  I hope someone can answer that 
question for you.  But I fear that writing it in Python may not buy you 
as much performance as either of us would like.


Jeremy Jones
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From carribeiro at gmail.com  Mon Nov 15 10:04:39 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:04:39 -0200
Subject: How to load new class definitions at runtime?
In-Reply-To: <1gn8ja3.7d3sbhuk94khN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.6287.1100207213.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gn8ja3.7d3sbhuk94khN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <864d37090411150704193cba39@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 10:07:01 +0100, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
>    ...
> > attached to it. So simple object instances would not cut it. To allow
> > the system to be customized without taking the application server
> > offline, there must be a solution for these new class definitions to
> > be loaded at runtime.
> 
> If you need them to be _updatable_ at runtime, look at a recipe by
> Michael Hudson in the cookbook -- I've updated it for the printed
> version 2nd ed (since we do have __subclasses__ now, yay!) but that's
> not done yet.  My vote for most useful custom metaclasses ever...

Thanks for the pointer. Michael Hudson's recipe solves one huge part
of the problem; I was not even trying to solve it yet, but it helps a
lot :-)

[snip] 
> It's a harder deployment decision whether the normal system operation
> should also support the filesystem, or just the database.  

I'm thinking about two alternatives right now, not mutually exclusive.

1) I'm trying to understand how do packages work, and what hooks are
available. I guess I could make it work using packages to re-read the
source code whenever a "from <package> import <module>" statement is
executed; Michael Hudson's recipe could also be automatically invoked
for the redefined classes.

2) Another suggestion is to use a source-code control system as the
code repository. For example: using the Python Subversion interface, I
could checkout the code for the class. It's safer, in a sense, than
database access, because of the way it tracks changes and logs
accesses. But it's also more complex, and possibly slower, than a file
read, or even a database read (depending on the db engine, of course).

My choice now is a simple-minded 'always re-read the source code'
approach, just to make it work and test some concepts. But the problem
seems interesting enough to deserve further investigation. I'm sure a
"dynamic package" version, with automatic redefinition using the
Michaels Hudson's recipe, would make for a good recipe itself.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Wed Nov 24 14:34:57 2004
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:34:57 GMT
Subject: SOAPpy under xinetd?
Message-ID: <xqxact7ghwe.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

I'm trying to setup a SOAPpy service under xinetd.  Has someone done
this sort of thing?  Didn't find it from google searches or
documentation.  This is probably a sockets-level issue, but I was
hoping someone in python land had done this with SOAPpy before.

The server works fine as simple SOAP server and client pair on
localhost.  But when I try to put it under xinetd, it fails.  Using
"xinetd -d" I can see it is failing due to address in use.  Does this
represent xinetd and SOAPServer competing for use of the port?

Perhaps as a result of failed binding, and perhaps as a separate
issue, the client fails on connection refused.  I have hosts.deny
ALL:ALL.  For a non-well-known service, I don't see how to add my new
service to hosts.allow.  Even when I make an entry in /etc/services,
and provide an entry in hosts.allow, I still get the connection
reset.


---xinetd.d/graphs-----------------
service graphs
{
        disable = no
        socket_type = stream
        protocol = tcp
	type = UNLISTED
        server = /usr3/lib/app_svr.py
        port  = 2036
        wait = no
        user = nobody
        instances = 2
        nice = 10
        only_from = my.clients.here localhost
}


---xinetd -d messages------------------------------
04/11/24 at 11:20:32: DEBUG: 20011 {cnf_start_services} Started service: graphs
04/11/24 at 11:20:32: ERROR: 20011 {activate_normal} bind failed (Address already in use (errno = 98)). service = graphs
04/11/24 at 11:20:32: DEBUG: 20011 {cnf_start_services} mask_max = 6, services_started =

---app_svr.py----------------------------
    logging.info("non_ssl")
    server = SOAPpy.SOAPServer(("localhost",2036),
                               )
    logging.info("server created")
    server.registerFunction(hello)
    logging.info("functions added")
    server.serve_forever()

---app_client.py---------------------------
    SOAPpy.Config.debug=1
    soap_url='http://localhost:2036'
    proxy=SOAPpy.SOAPProxy(soap_url)
    subdirname="myhello"
    csv_url="http://example.com"
    result=proxy.hello(SOAPpy.StringType(subdirname),
                       SOAPpy.StringType(csv_url),
                       )

---app_client messages-------------------------------------
In build.
In dump. obj= myhello
In dump_string.
In gentag.
In dumper.
In dump. obj= http://example.com
In dump_string.
In gentag.
In dumper.
*** Outgoing HTTP headers **********************************************
POST / HTTP/1.0
Host: localhost:2036
User-agent: SOAPpy 0.11.6 (http://pywebsvcs.sf.net)
Content-type: text/xml; charset="UTF-8"
Content-length: 521
SOAPAction: "hello"
************************************************************************
*** Outgoing SOAP ******************************************************
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<SOAP-ENV:Envelope SOAP-ENV:encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/" xmlns:SOAP-ENC="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/1999/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:SOAP-ENV="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/1999/XMLSchema">
<SOAP-ENV:Body>
<hello SOAP-ENC:root="1">
<v1 xsi:type="xsd:string">myhello</v1>
<v2 xsi:type="xsd:string">http://example.com</v2>
</hello>
</SOAP-ENV:Body>
</SOAP-ENV:Envelope>
************************************************************************
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "a290/hello_client.py", line 135, in ?
    main(pargs)
  File "a290/hello_client.py", line 106, in main
    SOAPpy.StringType(csv_url),
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/site-packages/SOAPpy/Client.py", line 453, in __call__
    return self.__r_call(*args, **kw)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/site-packages/SOAPpy/Client.py", line 475, in __r_call
    self.__hd, self.__ma)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/site-packages/SOAPpy/Client.py", line 347, in __call
    config = self.config)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/site-packages/SOAPpy/Client.py", line 201, in call
    code, msg, headers = r.getreply()
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/httplib.py", line 1049, in getreply
    response = self._conn.getresponse()
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/httplib.py", line 778, in getresponse
    response.begin()
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/httplib.py", line 273, in begin
    version, status, reason = self._read_status()
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/httplib.py", line 231, in _read_status
    line = self.fp.readline()
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/socket.py", line 323, in readline
    data = recv(1)
socket.error: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')



-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
Phone: (425) 294-4718


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Nov  2 08:44:40 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 08:44:40 -0500
Subject: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails ...
 python on ?)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5760.1099317510.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <20041101120902.30033.qmail@engcorp.com>
	<mailman.5760.1099317510.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8vudnfdCkdjaEhrcRVn-jA@powergate.ca>

Ed Leafe wrote:
> On Nov 1, 2004, at 7:09 AM, Peter Hansen wrote:
>>> Do you mean Zope?
>>
>> Most definitely not!  Zope is a "content management system".
> 
>     No, Zope is a web application framework. There is a product called 
> 'Plone' that is a content management system built on Zope, but Zope does 
> quite a bit more than just content management.

Sure it does, but that doesn't mean that it is designed for
such.  There are key features that arise out of the fact
that it was designed for content management...  I've used it
extensively and am gradually weaning myself off it, finding it
too "cms"-centric for my liking and my needs.

See also my addition to the main thread on this topic, where
I note that I misread the rubyonrails site, which got me off-track
in the first place.  (Doesn't change my answer above though...)

-Peter


From chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu  Tue Nov 30 01:27:18 2004
From: chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu (Chris S.)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 06:27:18 GMT
Subject: how to drop all thread ??
In-Reply-To: <coechh$amh$1@netnews.hinet.net>
References: <coechh$amh$1@netnews.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <apUqd.826$8v3.187@trndny08>

Leon wrote:
> if class A(
> use threading,thread module
> ) to produce 100 thread,how to drop its (100 thread) when its running 

As Roggisch suggests, the cleanest way is if the thread kills itself 
once signaled by an exit condition. However, there is a non-orthodox way 
of pseudo-forcibly killing threads by catching the kill signal in a 
traceback. This method is summed up in Connelly Barnes's informal 
KThread module:
http://www.google.com/groups?q=KThread+group:comp.lang.python&hl=en&lr=&selm=mailman.225.1083634398.25742.python-list%40python.org&rnum=1

Note it won't work in all cases, as it can't kill a thread that's made a 
blocking system call. However, it may come in useful.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Nov 21 15:03:18 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:03:18 -0500
Subject: generic object - moving toward PEP
In-Reply-To: <30c7flF2umgtjU2@uni-berlin.de>
References: <aJtnd.118100$HA.81413@attbi_s01> <30c7flF2umgtjU2@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Rx6od.1758$QR.382@lakeread01>

Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
> Steven Bethard wrote:
> 
>>So I thought I'd try to summarize a few things here and maybe we can 
>>move toward filing a PEP.  I'm not really sure I'm the right person to 
>>champion it because, as I've mentioned, I usually eventually replace 
>>generic objects with concrete classes, but I'm certainly willing to do 
>>some of the work writing it up, etc.  If you're interested in helping 
>>me, let me know (off-list).
> 
> 
> +1 on this. Would be great (would it be possible to add to 2.4 still?)
> 

Not with a release candidate in distribution, no - only "must-fix" 
changes will be made before 2.4 final.

regards
  Steve


-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From exarkun at divmod.com  Sat Nov 13 00:15:29 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 05:15:29 GMT
Subject: a very newbie question about threading
In-Reply-To: <cn40u3$e8f$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <20041113051529.20649.310071173.divmod.quotient.4160@ohm>

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 23:01:37 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>Jeremy Bowers wrote:
> > On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:29:53 -0800, Chris Patton wrote:
> >>I've recenently stumbled upon a concept known as "threading". 
> > 
> > I'd add that with no insult intended, "threading" and "very newbie" do not
> > go together well. Threading is the most common source of the notorious
> > "heisenbug", ...
> > Generally, unless you *know* you need them, you don't, ...
> 
> Excellent post, Jeremy, though I think it's worth adding something
> like this:
> 
> Python makes writing threaded code much more straightforward than
> many languages, and also provides some protection from some types
> of bugs which are almost ubiquitous in threaded applications in
> some other languages.  By sticking with the Queue object (see the
> module by that name) as the sole means of communication between
> threads, the vast majority of other thread-related problems
> simply disappears.  Not all of them -- and Jeremy's caution about
> threads giving even expert programmers pause applies -- but in
> general Python's not a bad place to learn and use threads...

  As long as we're pointing out aspects of threading particular to Python, then we should include this:

  The relative ease of use associated with Python threads do not come without a cost.  A prime use of threads is to take advantage of multiple processors, truly running multiple instruction streams simultaneously (instead of only semi-randomly interlacing them as will occur on a single processor machine).  A Python thread, however, acquires an exclusive "lock" when running which prevents any other Python thread in the same process from running.  This means that only one Python thread is ever actually running at a time, negating any multiprocessor benefits threading might have yielded.  So while threads in Python are less painful than threads elsewhere, they are also less advantageous.

  Jp


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Fri Nov 26 11:13:05 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:13:05 -0200
Subject: PEP263 + exec statement
In-Reply-To: <41a7361d$0$25779$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
References: <mailman.6806.1101470454.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41a7361d$0$25779$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <864d370904112608132d94d7d0@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 23:56:47 +1000, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at email.com> wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> > Does anyone have more information on this? I have tried Google in
> > vain. It seems that exec is not that popular (which is a good sign,
> > IMHO), and that nobody else had this problem before.
> 
> Does compile() work? (i.e. "bytecode = compile(code_str); exec bytecode" instead
> of "exec code_str").
> 
> PEP 263 states explicitly that feeding a unicode string to compile() should
> respect the encoding. It's silence on the question of exec fails to inspire
> confidence. . .
> 
> If compile() does work even though exec doesn't, it would explain why exec has
> never been fixed :)

In [3]: s = """
   ...: a = "Ol?!"
   ...: print "a:", a
   ...: print "repr(a):", repr(a)
   ...: b = u"Ol?"
   ...: print "b:", b
   ...: print "b(latin-1):", b.encode('latin-1')
   ...: """

In [4]: exec s
a: Ol?!
repr(a): 'Ol\xe1!'
b: Ol?
b(latin-1): Ol?

In [5]: c = compile(s, '<string>', 'exec')

In [6]: print c
<code object ? at 0x403c8660, file "<string>", line 2>

In [7]: exec c
a: Ol?!
repr(a): 'Ol\xe1!'
b: Ol?
b(latin-1): Ol?

No exceptions at any point with Python 2.3, which I thought would
support the encoding PEP (as it does for source files -- it issues a
warning). I haven't tested it with 2.4 -- don't have it installed
here, so I don't know what is it supposed to do.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 15 11:44:46 2004
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:44:46 +0000
Subject: Python generators in Java?
In-Reply-To: <ppWdnQCou6jBUQXcRVn-jA@adelphia.com>
References: <ppWdnQCou6jBUQXcRVn-jA@adelphia.com>
Message-ID: <I%4md.41892$Z14.16845@news.indigo.ie>

[Robert Oschler]
 > Preamble:
 >
 > - I know this is the Python forum
 > - I know about (and have used) Jython
 >
 > I already posted this question in comp.lang.java.  But after a week I
 > have still not received a single reply.
 >
 > One of my favorite Python features is generators.  I have to use Java
 > for one particular project (it happens).  I would like to have
 > something at least close to Python's generators for the project.


Hi Robert,

Hmm, I don't see a direct question in your post, so I'll just assume 
that you're generally inquiring about generator style functionality in java.

If you're looking to achieve the execution efficiency of python 
generators, e.g. in terms of processing sequences one value at a time 
rather than generating the entire sequence and then processing, then you 
should look at java iterators, which are designed specifically for this 
purpose.

Note that java 1.5 brings new syntactic features which support 
iterators, e.g. short-hand for loops like this

public int sumArray(int array[]) {
   int sum = 0;
   for(int i : array) {
     sum += i;
   }
   return sum;
}

Quite pythonic, IMHO.

http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/releases/j2se15langfeat/

However, if you're looking for the resumable-functions aspect of 
generators, you're out of luck: java doesn't not support them. But note 
that a java iterator will still very likely be more efficient than a 
python generator, albeit that the code won't be as clean.

Note that there is a currently a proposal from the codehaus people to 
add continuations to java, which could make both generators and full 
coroutines possible in java.

http://docs.codehaus.org/display/continuation/Home

Lastly, it would probably be easier to discuss this subject if you gave 
an example of the type of thing you want to do, and some reasons why you 
want to do it that way. Post some python: maybe the java would be 
straightforward.

Regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
------------------------------------------------------
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/contact/alan


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Tue Nov 23 02:40:43 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:40:43 -0800
Subject: SWIG
References: <5gtod.21561$08.16414@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <dk6b72-6h6.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>


"Philip Smith" <as006d4848 at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:5gtod.21561$08.16414 at fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Does anyone use SWIG?????

Yes, thousands.

> I'm having trouble patching it to allow me to compile wrappers in Borland C++ Builder because Borland will insist on adding 
> underscores to symbols.

You need to ensure that the calling convention in the headers seen by
the compiler are consistent.  (It is unclear from your description where
the mismatch is happening - in the wrapper functions generated by Swig
or the calls to your existing code that is being wrapped)

Swig does handle Borland C for marking the wrapping functions for dll export.

I actually use MinGW and everything works perfectly for C and C++ code,
even for C code where the dll was compiled with MSVC and I don't have
the source.

(I also use Swig on Linux and Mac but that is incidental).

Roger 




From Per.Gesen at tietoenator.com  Fri Nov 12 05:42:35 2004
From: Per.Gesen at tietoenator.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Per_Ges=E9n?=)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:42:35 +0100
Subject: JMS for CPython via JPype?
Message-ID: <97BB3F8F2532724EAD907C8BB34DCA6808CE87@ant03mail.ant-it.com>

Hello David

When i click on:
http://home.comcast.net/~david.g.morgenthaler/Jpypejms.zip. 
I got the message "Page URL Not Found!!".

//Per




From roy at panix.com  Sun Nov 14 13:08:23 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 13:08:23 -0500
Subject: using python on the command line with 'here-documents' and pipes
References: <slrncpf4ga.1u7.calmar@news.calmar.ws>
Message-ID: <roy-3BDE3B.13082314112004@reader1.panix.com>

calmar <calmar at calmar.ws> wrote:

> I would like to be able to pipe things into python.

Python is perfectly happy reading stdin and writing to stdout, so it's 
also perfectly happy acting as a component in a pipe.

> Actually I would not like
> writing a 'script' to handle the input, but write the python commands
> right onto the command line.

You can do this with the -c command line option:   

$ python -c 'print "hello world"'
hello world
 
> It would be possible to use here-documents (for having the correct
> identation during e.g while loops) for writing python code on
> the fly, but then how and where to get the pipe output:

I think you're confusing two different things: where python gets the 
code it's going to execute, and where it gets the input it's going to 
feed to that executing code.  You can use here-is documents for the 
input, and -c for the code, and end up with something like this:

$ python -c 'import sys
> for line in sys.stdin:
>     print line[:10]
> 
> ' << EOF
> line one of many
> line two of many
> line three of many
> EOF
line one o
line two o
line three

Whether or not the single-quote mechanism reads past newlines and 
properly preserves indentation is more a function of what shell you're 
using than the python interpreter itself (the above was done with bash).

> Would anybody have an idea how to use python like e.g. awk etc. As a
> tool within, where I can handle the stdin data, and write the code right
> there (e.g. with here documents)?

Well, the above will work, but I don't think it's a particularly good 
idea.  I think you would do better putting the text of your python 
script in a .py file, make the first line #!/usr/bin/python, and make it 
executable.  Then you've got a stand-alone program that you can edit and 
maintain apart from the shell script that surrounds it.  In the long 
run, this is likely to be simpler to test and to maintain.

Of course, if you want to be a bit perverse, you can always do:

$ python /dev/stdin << EOF
> print "hello, bizarre world"
> EOF
hello, bizarre world

but I think that's more of a curiosity than a useful tool.  Along the 
same lines, I once knew somebody who linked /dev/tty.c to /dev/tty.  He 
could then do "cc /dev/tty.c" and type in c code directly to the 
compiler".  He was a sick puppy.


From v451v at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 30 09:48:58 2004
From: v451v at yahoo.com (Jorl Shefner)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:48:58 -0500
Subject: Numeric: 'where' function conditions
References: <311o97F300hdgU1@uni-berlin.de> <cogan6$kt0$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <313fhvF36hg0eU1@uni-berlin.de>

In article <cogan6$kt0$1 at news1.ucsd.edu>, Robert Kern <rkern at ucsd.edu> 
wrote:

> 
> Right. "3 < data" creates an array of 0s and 1s where the condition is 
> false and true, respectively. You don't need where() at all.
> 
> Try
> 
> mask = logical_and(3 < data, data <= 7)

Great.  That's exactly what I needed.  Thanks.


From mark.doberenz at righthemisphere.com  Tue Nov 30 09:57:41 2004
From: mark.doberenz at righthemisphere.com (Mark Doberenz)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 03:57:41 +1300
Subject: python API wrapper for C++ API
Message-ID: <7A977E70F2DA7446B6F631A8A66CF18F01754C44@deep.cadtech>

Thanks Josiah and everyone else who's replied to this already.

I'm taking a look at the web site Fredrik posted and I think it's going
to help me a lot.

I think I only need to be able to call C++ from Python.  The main thing
I'm confused about is how to make it so the Python program will directly
manipulate objects in the 3D program.

My brother has used Jython and he said in there, the Python Interpreter
is an object and you can bind it to an object.  I'm not sure how this
would happen in C++ though.

Thanks,
Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Josiah Carlson [mailto:jcarlson at uci.edu] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 1:59 AM
To: Mark Doberenz; python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: python API wrapper for C++ API


"Mark Doberenz" <mark.doberenz at righthemisphere.com> wrote:
> I'm fairly new at Python, but I've got a project I really want to do.
>  
> I'm working with a real-time 3D program called Deep Creator, and it 
> has a C++ API written for it.  I'm wondering what it would take to 
> create a Python wrapper that would allow me to write Python programs 
> that would call the C++ API.
>  
> The main issue I'm running into is that I need to create a DLL that I 
> load as a plugin into Deep Creator.  I then will specify a python 
> program inside Deep Creator that I want to run, and the DLL plugin 
> will be the link between the python program and Deep Creator.
>  
> I'd really appreciate any ideas or issues that people see with this 
> set up.

The first thing you need to decide is whether you want to call C++ from
Python, Python from C++, both, or whether you want to embed a Python
interpreter inside your application.

The standard places to look for this kind of thing are ctypes, SWIG, and
Boost.Python.

 - Josiah



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Nov 30 13:46:25 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:46:25 -0800
Subject: decorators ?
In-Reply-To: <20041201205748.GA15430@mrna.tn.nic.in>
References: <20041201205748.GA15430@mrna.tn.nic.in>
Message-ID: <20041130103736.FA7D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


km <km at mrna.tn.nic.in> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
>  was going thru the new features introduced into python2.4 version.
> i was stuck with 'decorators' -  can someone explain me the need of such a thing called decorators ? 

Decorators are not 'needed'.  They are a convenience.

Among the things that they are meant to make more convenient are the
following...

class foo:
    @staticmethod
    def goo(arg, ...):
        pass

rather than...

class foo:
    def goo(arg, ...):
        pass
    goo = staticmethod(goo)

And other things of its ilk.  Where they will be used the most right off
is in function signatures for PyObjC bindings in (I believe) OSX by Bob
Ippolito.  Using his example:

class FooClass(NSObject):
     def returnsAnInteger(self):
         return 1
     returnsAnInteger = objc.selector(returnsAnInteger, signature='i@:')

     def returnsVoidTakesAnInteger_(self, anInteger):
         pass
     returnsVoidTakesAnInteger_ = \
         objc.selector(returnsVoidTakesAnInteger_, signature='v@:i')

...becomes...

def signature(sig):
     def _signature(fn):
         return objc.selector(fn, signature=sig)
     return _signature

class FooClass(NSObject):
     @signature('i@:')
     def returnsAnInteger(self):
         return 1

     @signature('v@:i')
     def returnsVoidTakesAnInteger_(self, anInteger):
         pass


 - Josiah



From richard at nospam.com  Mon Nov 29 17:38:08 2004
From: richard at nospam.com (Richard Townsend)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 22:38:08 +0000
Subject: tkinter manual question
References: <e5063e96.0411291358.7998dc61@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1npe0c7rflxts.7rdmg8oo4rxa.dlg@40tude.net>

On 29 Nov 2004 13:58:05 -0800, Sean McIlroy wrote:

> The 'Canvas Methods' section of the online Intro to Tkinter
> (http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/x2102-methods.htm)
> refers (without explanation) to something called "bbox". What is this?
> TIA

Do you mean this section ?

bbox(items) => tuple, bbox() => tuple

    Returns the bounding box for the given items. If the specifier is
omitted, the bounding box for all items are returned. Note that the
bounding box is approximate and may differ a few pixels from the real
value.


-- 
Richard


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 08:49:13 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 08:49:13 -0500
Subject: don't NaN & infinities hide FP errors
In-Reply-To: <cnf963$ioc$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0411170130.31d247@posting.google.com>
	<cnf963$ioc$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <1f7befae041117054954a8e966@mail.gmail.com>

[Peter Maas]
> Just try it. 1./0. raises a ZeroDivisionError,

That much is true -- Python forces this.

> math.log(0) raises a math range error, and math.log(-1) yields nan.

The rest varies across platforms, as explained in this note at the end
of Python's math module docs:

"""
The math module consists mostly of thin wrappers around the platform C
math library functions. Behavior in exceptional cases is loosely
specified by the C standards, and Python inherits much of its
math-function error-reporting behavior from the platform C
implementation. As a result, the specific exceptions raised in error
cases (and even whether some arguments are considered to be
exceptional at all) are not defined in any useful cross-platform or
cross-release way. For example, whether math.log(0) returns -Inf or
raises ValueError or OverflowError isn't defined, and in cases where
math.log(0) raises OverflowError, math.log(0L) may raise ValueError
instead.
"""


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Mon Nov  8 11:57:49 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 11:57:49 -0500
Subject: Python OS
In-Reply-To: <418F7ED5.6050506@bellsouth.net>
References: <418CDE71.4080303@cloudthunder.com>
	<418F7ED5.6050506@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <418FA58D.9010804@cloudthunder.com>

Jeremy Jones wrote:

> Richard Blackwood wrote:
>
>> Is it possible to prototype an operating system in Python?  If so, 
>> what would such a task entail? (i.e. How would one write a 
>> boot-loader in Python?)
>>
>> - Richard B.
>
>
> Richard,
>
> I thought this was a great question that provoked a lot of discussion, 
> but unfortunately, 1) you took the brunt of unnecessary harshness due 
> to folks mostly jumping to incorrect conclusions about what you were 
> asking and what you were stating, 2) some of the folks who were 
> involved were folks I (typically) respect [same here], 3) no positive 
> resolution was posited [Indeed], and 4) the final answer seemed to be, 
> even if you could do it (in a totally virtual environment), it 
> wouldn't be of any benefit [I thoroughly disagree with the "any" part 
> particularly] for learning how an OS works.

What I do not quite understand is the overall assertion that low-level 
aspects of OS design can not be simulated.  Interrupts were much 
discussed, but I ask: can one not simulate interrupts?  It seems absurd 
to me that this would be impossible.  If in the process of creating an 
OS, you have to deal low-level aspects XYZ, it seems feasible that those 
aspects may be simulated.  Almost anything (objects, relationships 
between objects, events embodying shifts in such relationships, etc.) 
can be simulated via code.  If the question is whether the simulation 
will be complete and true to the _real_ thing, that is entirely up to 
one's choice of what aspects to incorporate into the simulation, which 
is dependent on one's knowledge of the original construct.  So I protest 
the assertion that it would not be of _any_ benefit for learning how an 
OS works, it is merely a matter of how well the simulation is 
constructed, a process which in itself brings one to understand more 
thoroughly not only OS components, but the underlying hardware.  It is 
sort of like writing an assembler before learning an assembly language: 
through the process one learns a great deal of how assemblers and 
hardware functions, and may know a great deal more than if one delved 
into MASM programming at first.  Nevertheless, I would not _recommend_ 
anyone to do this, but precisely my point, I did not ask anyone on this 
medium what the best method for learning how to write an OS is, nor was 
that the goal.  My aim was to do exactly as I posted, to prototype an OS 
in Python--- meaning that I have an OS written in Python that I can play 
around with in respect to design, functionality, and so forth; with 
perhaps the further aim of some point utilizing that prototype as a 
_sketch_ of what a real OS should be.  I care little if the prototype 
direct interfaces with hardware or with virtual hardware, as long as my 
prototype may take into account all critical (and non-critical) aspects 
of an OS architecture, _in Python_.

>
> I think building a virtual environment would be a great way of 
> learning more about how an OS works.  

Indeed.

> It may not give you much experience dealing with the real, very 
> low-level intricacies of what it takes to write a real OS, but I think 
> it would be a valuable learning experience, nonetheless.  

I never asked anyone here what the value of this experience would be and 
it seems strange to me that that was the sticking point for my 
respondents.  But I do agree with you, near entirely.

> And in addition, I think it could also teach how computer hardware 
> works as well.  

Yes.

> I'm considering posting a question to c.l.p about, would it be 
> possible to write a hardware emulator in Python, something along the 
> lines of the hardware of the Commodore 64 (remember those?).

Indeed, I remember when they came out with the prototype in early '82.

>   I'm not saying the C-64 itself, only a simple 8-bit (I think it was 
> 8 bit) processor or something comparable.  After writing such a beast, 
> what would it take to write an OS that sat on top of this virtual 
> piece of hardware?  I think such a project would be fascinating...if 
> only I had the time to work on it....  Maybe I won't post to the group 
> about it....don't have my flame-retardant suit on today ;-)

Probably wise!

>
> Anyway, great question and my apologies for the group.  They're 
> usually not like that.  Actually, someone pointed out that lately 
> they've been becoming like that.  I hope that changes soon.
>
>
> Jeremy

Thanks Jeremy, much appreciated.  My first post to this list was flamed 
(perhaps rightfully) so I am fast becoming used to it.


From mwm at mired.org  Wed Nov  3 02:03:33 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 01:03:33 -0600
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrncoem29.1pd.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<2upctrF2dhnfeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5822.1099415663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8hsr$cu2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5830.1099419995.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cm8ndi$lug$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5837.1099425908.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<418800a8$0$14976$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5844.1099433920.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <x7lldjv2gq.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> writes:
> Don't get me wrong -- I do understand your point.  In every case I can think of,
> there is no reason to want weak-typing (PL theory definition) in a
> dynamically-typed language.  On the other hand, I haven't really seen any good
> cases for wanting weak-typing in a statically-typed language either.

First of all, let's mention a truly weakly-typed language. BCPL, one
of C's predecessors. Variables don't have types, they just hold
words. Operations treat those variables as having a different type:
adding them as ints, or adding them as floats. Dereferencing them to
arrive at another word. Subroutines were just variables that held a
pointer to code, and people would actually write code that looked like
(pseudo-c):

func() {
       init_func ;
       func = foo ;
foo:   func_code ;
       }

To only run the initialization code the first time the function was
invoked, but not any other times. Of course, there was an external
program (written in BCPL) that did type inferencing, and would warn
you when you used something as other than what it really was.

And yes, BCPL saw real use. I've used a desktop DOS that was written
in BCPL. The rest of the system was written in C, which made life
*very* interesting.

Now, as to why one would *want* languages that let you treat things as
other than what they were.

It's much easier to write functions that convert 16, 32 and 64 bit
quantities from network order to host order (and vice versa) if you
can treat them as an array of bytes, even though you'll want to treat
them as longer hunks while dealing with them. When talking to
hardware, you can get some really *strange* things. You may have a
location that is an address most of the time, but part of the time is
a control register full of bits to toggle. When doing cryptography,
you very often want to treat the string of characters you're
encrypting as a string of words of some length, because that's the
size chunk that the algorythm encrypts. Marshelling has already been
mentioned on this thread. You may well want to marshal ints and floats
in binary form, meaning you'll need to treat that array of bytes as
being of that type.

You can also look through the python library for places where struct
is used - most of those will involve doing something where you want to
treat a string of bytes as something else.

Finally, I don't see that there's that much difference between the two
different definitions of 'weakly typed'.  Both can be described as
treating an object as if it were of some type other than what it
really is. In one case, you abuse the raw bits, and in the other you
coerce the object to a different type. Both amount to the same thing:

       a = "10"
       b = 5
       c = a + b

In a strongly typed language, I get an error. In a weakly typed
language, I get something else. Either a pointer beyond the end of the
string a, or 15, depending on exactly how the a object is abused.

       <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From Norbert.Klamann at klamann-software.de  Tue Nov  9 05:59:23 2004
From: Norbert.Klamann at klamann-software.de (Norbert)
Date: 9 Nov 2004 02:59:23 -0800
Subject: wax: ComboBox in Panels doesn't show up
References: <1099996205.547894.213190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1099997963.864546.140570@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Found the error : I copied and pasted and got the first parameter in
the class creations wrong :
-----
gp.AddComponent(0,0,Label(gp, "Umgebung :"))
gp.AddComponent(1,1,ComboBox(gp, UMGEBUNGEN, readonly=1))
------
note the parameter 'gp'.



From mrtact at gmail.com  Tue Nov 16 16:17:16 2004
From: mrtact at gmail.com (Tim Keating)
Date: 16 Nov 2004 13:17:16 -0800
Subject: how do I read a series of pickled objects from a socket?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6456.1100638512.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6456.1100638512.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1100639836.285514.264910@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I would strongly caution you against doing this, unless you are
*positive* you can secure that endpoint at the network level.
Promiscuously accepting arbitrary python objects to execute from an
open network connection is a recipe for disaster IMHO.

OTOH, if you are convinced this is how you want to do this . . . when
you send the pickle, send a fixed size length field (set to the size of
the pickle) first. So the pseudocode would look something like:

size = conn.recv(4)
data = conn.recv(size)
obj = pickle.loads(data)

Also, you probably want to have a look at the select module, unless you
never want your server to shut down :-)

Tim Keating



From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 13 05:49:15 2004
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 13 Nov 2004 02:49:15 -0800
Subject: Python 2.4: Why only assignments to None are forbiden?
References: <4195190f@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
	<mailman.6320.1100296338.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0411130249.1b4829a4@posting.google.com>

Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.6320.1100296338.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Josef Meile wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Textually from the highlights of python 2.4:
> > 
> > "Assigning to None - the compiler now treats assigning to None as a 
> > SyntaxError."
> > 
> > I think in general assignments to built-in types, functions, and 
> > variables should be also forbiden. It's a common mistake to do things 
> > like this:
> > 
> >  >>> def getFileName(file):
> > ...   parts=file.split('/')
> > ...   return parts('/')[-1]
> > 
> > Specially if you come from python 2.1.x where "file" didn't exist. 
> > Instead, there was "open"
> 
> Well, it's not really a mistake, because it works just fine and causes 
> no problems.  I use builtin names often, as they are annoyingly very 
> convenient local variables.  I try not to, but it still happens 
> (especially file, though I make sure to distinguish between files and 
> filenames).

I have the same problem.

Perhaps it would have better if "file" were named "File" instead.


From eddie at kickingdragon.com  Sun Nov 21 14:30:19 2004
From: eddie at kickingdragon.com (Eddie Parker)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:30:19 -0700
Subject: Detecting memory leaks
In-Reply-To: <30bv7bF2v8js0U1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <JpUnd.3357144$yk.521533@news.easynews.com>
	<30bv7bF2v8js0U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <41A0ECCB.5060702@kickingdragon.com>


>Jive wrote:
>
>  
>
>>The short form of the question is, how can I trace memory usage
>>(preferably from C) with an eye toward finding out if I'm leaking memory?
>>    
>>

If you're interested in a 'poor-mans' solution, or rather a 
"not-built-here" solution, you could do something like the following:

(in debug)

1) Override all new and deletes
2) Have new add to a linked list, placing __FILE__, __LINE__ and a 
pointer to the memory created
3) Have delete remove from said linked list
4) Have another call that displays the linked list's contents out.

Then, simply have the call that displays the linked lists contents 
execute whenever you believe you should have all the objects deleted.

I realize this could fail for a variety of reasons:
a) Some(/all?) parts of your code don't use new and delete
b) You want to detect memory leaks in an environment where you still 
have *some* items newed
c) I missed the point completely and gave poor advice. :)

Anyways, I'm not sure if this will help, but it's what I use in my apps. 
Apologies if it doesn't!

-e-


From marcus at deepfort.com  Mon Nov  1 05:41:39 2004
From: marcus at deepfort.com (marcus at deepfort.com)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 10:41:39 +0000
Subject: Linksys Router & Python
In-Reply-To: <cltjkt$4fi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <cltjkt$4fi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <418612E3.9020408@deepfort.com>

Brad Tilley wrote:

> Probably a stupid question, but here goes:
>
> Is there any way to get a scaled down version of Python onto a Linksys 
> Wireless router? Are there any projects out there that are doing this? 
> I've googled around a bit, but didn't find much. I want to keep the 
> router's software as it is, but I also would like to have some 
> scripting abilities on it as well (like email the router's IP addy 
> every x hours), etc.
>
> I have scripts that run on my computers that do this sort of thing.
>
> def url_open():
>     """ Function that gets and returns the IP addy
>     of my Linksys BEFW11S4 Wireless DSL router."""
>     import urllib, re
>     ip = re.compile ('\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}')
>     f = urllib.urlopen("http://user:passwd at 192.168.1.1/RouterStatus.htm")
>     data = f.read()
>     f.close()
>     routerip = ip.findall(data)
>     print routerip[0]
>     return routerip[0]
>
> But, when I leave town for vacation, I don't like leaving a computer 
> running. If I could get the interpreter embedded in the device itself, 
> then that would solve the problem.
>
> This is probably a shot in the dark, but I thought I'd ask.
>
> Thanks,
> Brad


Tim Gilbert has been attempting to cross-compile just such a beast 
fairly recently, and may have had some success by now. Maybe you should 
drop him a line:

http://skreak.com/wrt54g/python.php

Good luck :-)


From michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it  Thu Nov 18 05:07:48 2004
From: michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it (Michele Petrazzo)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 11:07:48 +0100
Subject: GIF frame delay
In-Reply-To: <1100769942.849016.185380@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1100769942.849016.185380@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cnhseg$8qf$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>

Stephen Emslie wrote:
> Does anyone know of any python imaging modules that can change the
> delay between frames of an animated GIF?
> 
> Thanks
> Stephen Emslie
> 
PIL does this, I haven't use it, but into GifImagePlugin.py I read:
# 1996-12-30 fl   Added animation support


Bye,
Michele Petrazzo