Python as replacement for PHP?

[R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah]

[Well, this time I have decided to troll -- all because of prolong
irritating ignorant posts/crossposts. And, this is intentional
crosspost.]



dw-google.com at botanicus.net (David M. Wilson) wrote in message news:<99dce321.0403031518.56f61c7c at posting.google.com>...
> Bart Nessux <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> wrote...
> 
> > When it comes to dynamic, DB driven sites, PHP is the only way to go. 
> > Python is not even close to being suited for this task. PHP claims to be 
> > a general-purpose language, but I do not know anyone who uses it for 
> > anything other than dynamic Web programming.
> 
> Like everyone else who has replied, I seriously question how much
> experience you have with the multitude of Python web environments
> available. As an objective, point-by-point look at your specific
> example of somewhere PHP is strong, here's my reply:
> 
> [PS: I still use PHP regularly, albeit only for quick unimportant
> hacks that won't exist in 6 months]

   So.. you don't have any important works :-/

> - Nearly all the PHP code I have seen (including various large web
> sites) fails to handle error conditions, and will run amok given a
> down DB server, bad filesystem permissions, or bad inputs. I have had
> personal experience, on more than one occasion, of an error condition
> in someone else's PHP code causing a large amount of damage to a
> dataset.

   Good news. Well done PHP!

> - The equivalent Python code will almost never do that. Thanks to the
> religious throwing of exceptions, well written standard libraries, DB
> adaptors, and so on, the worst Python code has a MUCH better chance of
> getting stopped in it's tracks just as a fault occurs.
> 
>    py> open("/tmp/foo","w").write(123)
>    Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>    TypeError: argument 1 must be string or read-only character buffer,
> not int
> 
> 
>    [22:15:14] [cape:4:dw]$ php4 <<e   
>    > <? fwrite(fopen('foo','w'), 123); ?>
>    > e
>    [22:15:16] [cape:5:dw]$ cat /tmp/foo 
>    [22:15:17] [cape:6:dw]$ 
> 
> Can you tell me exactly what the PHP fwrite function did when I passed
> it an integer? Can you tell me how many PHP programmers test
> "(strlen($to_write) == fwrite($fp, $to_write))"?


   Ok...understand. idiot-proof?

> - In the specific instance of database connectivity, Python is far
> superior, in terms of intuitiveness, security, safety, and so on.
> Python database APIs are built in a way that protects you by default.

   Perhaps, idiots' own language?

> - PHP provides no intuitive default support for many common DB
> operations. Compare the following messes:
> 
>    py> l = MySQLdb.connect()
>    py> c = l.cursor()
>    py> user_input = "%t%"
>    py> match_count = c.execute("SHOW DATABASES LIKE %s", ( user_input
> ))
>    py> print match_count, "matches:", [ x for x, in c ]
>    1 matches: ['test']
> 
> 
>    <? $s = mysql_connect(); 
>    $user_input = "%t%";
>    $query_sql = sprintf("SHOW DATABASES LIKE \"%s\"",
>       mysql_real_escape_string($user_input, $s));
>    $query = mysql_query($query_sql, $s);
>    $matches = array();
>    while ($row = mysql_fetch_array($query, MYSQL_NUM)) $matches[]=
> $row[0];
>    echo sizeof($matches), " matches: ", var_export($matches, true);
> 
> 
> Tell me, of these two popular examples of bad code in both languages,
> which is the more intuitive to read, which is the more elegant to keep
> secure, and which would you prefer to be reading, and modifying in 18
> months time? [In this case, which was the quicker to create? The
> Python example. The PHP counterpart has a syntax error somewhere, I
> care not where.]
> 
> How many different ways can you dream up the same functionality in the
> PHP example? (mysql_escape_string, <random_db_api>, etc.)
> 
> How likely is it that the developer you hire to take over development
> of either snippet of code will understand the concept behind it? I
> can't even think of another way of doing database query in Python,
> without using the low-level interfaces, which is just insane.
> 
> We could bring the PHP ADODB, or many of the other numerous PHP APIs
> for DB connectivity into the picture, but which of these are the
> obvious choice, and officially endorsed?
> 
> How easy is it to improve on both these examples to add proper error
> handling? Again, Python wins hands down for elegance, conciseness, and
> obviousness.

   Yes, agreed. Idiots' language.

> - Python has a religious following of thousands, many of whom found
> freedom through it's restraint, unified path, and downright beauty.
> The result is a long tradition of structured, well written code.
> Python has roots in academia, and started life with a defined purpose,
> and a BDFL who knew what he was doing.
> 
> - PHP, "the web designer's ideal first language", started out life as
> "a collection of perl scripts" (that says it all really), then ported
> to C, then hacked and added to until it was the great swiss army
> monolith that it is today. PHP has never had a clear, publically
> documented development path, or indeed any form of structure or
> organisation, past the menu system of PHP.net

   LOL! Joke of the millennium.

> PHP developers tend to have started life using Dreamweaver, happy to
> accept the first solution to a problem that comes their way, and care
> little about technical merit. Every person (including at the time,
> myself) who I know that uses, or used PHP, did so because it allowed
> them to make things look beautiful and dynamic very quickly.

   Yet another good joke.

> - Python gurus, when asked how to make something work, will often
> appear nasty and horrible, telling you you're doing entirely the wrong
> thing and you should go back to the drawing board. Much like the hot
> sting from a smack of a father's hand, this is good, not bad. It is
> there to direct and discipline you, and improve the way you think.
> 
> - PHP gurus tend to be experienced web developers, they'll be able to
> look flash and give you an answer on the spot, but that answer will
> only further lead to the demise of any structure your coding ever had.

   Huh??

> - Python tends to be slow, but slow compared to what? The laptop I
> type this message on has a 2ghz processor. It cost less than £1000. It
> is the cheapest laptop money can buy in the UK. I run Python scripts
> on multi-gigabyte datasets on a daily basis on this machine. I have
> never considered the scripts to be 'slow'.
> 
> - PHP is very light on CPU, memory, and so on. I earn a modest amount
> for a 20 year old, even by Northern Ireland standards. I can't see how
> I would ever need to resort to PHP because I couldn't afford the
> hardware to run a complex Python-based site intended for viewing by
> thousands.
> 
> 
> Personally, I find the average PHP codebase to be akin to a television
> station such as MTV: well presented, streamlined, professional
> looking, but in terms of content, nothing but meaningless, mindless
> shite. On the other hand, reading certain Python code is more like
> reading a beautifully typeset hardback novel: black and white - ugly
> to some, but functional, educational, structured, meaningful, etc,
> etc.
> 
> What interests you more - earning money through thoughtless,
> effortlessly produced rant-syntax that no-one will ever want to look
> at again, or the daily challenge to produce something that will
> perfectly fulfill it's intended function, at the cost of a little
> time, a little brainpower, and a little discipline.
> 
> I could go on, but I think these points alone are the main reasons I
> use Python. At the cost only of speed, it protects me, teaches me,
> profits me, and inspires me to continue being the professional geek
> that I am. :)

   comp.lang.php is not the right place for you to show your
stupidity. You should consider stripping headers as many other PHP
ignorants (<http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=403fa54b%40news.zianet.com>)
did before throwing your thoughts.

   HTH. HAND.

-- 
 From comp.lang.php
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